Jan. 6, 2021
CD3: Shitcoin Regrets and Pricing the World in sats with dergigi & croesus_btc
Join Matt Odell as he sits down with dergigi & croesus_btc
EPISODE: 0.0.3
BLOCK: 664685
PRICE: 2962 sats per dollar
TOPICS: shitcoin regrets and pricing the world in sats
streamed live every tuesday:
https://citadeldispatch.com
twitch: https://twitch.tv/citadeldispatch
bitcointv: https://bitcointv.com/video-channels/citadeldispatch/videos
podcast: https://anchor.fm/citadeldispatch
telegram: https://t.me/citadeldispatch
support the show: https://tippin.me/@odell
stream sats to the show: https://www.fountain.fm/
join the chat: http://citadel.chat/
00:00 - Pay the players in US dollars what the players or agents do with the money is up to them.
00:04 - How do headlines like Panthers' Russell Okung becomes first NFL player to be paid in Bitcoin prop up this cryptocurrency market, Jack?
00:15 - Here's my message to the NFL when they come out with headlines like that.
00:27 - Athletes operate as independent businesses and take care of themselves because they should because no one else does it for them And that's not fair.
00:56 - They have the power to do that with this product and we don't need anyone's permission for that.
01:14 - I think Bitcoin is gonna continue to make headlines.
01:44 - This is actually all about him and less about me, but I'm happy and proud of my company in aiding towards his effort.
02:04 - We have our good friends, Durjiji and Croesusbtc with us.
02:49 - We will be discussing the main topics we'll be discussing today is Shitcoin Regrets and Pricing the World in Sats, but we won't stop there.
03:12 - So, we're looking forward to you guys in the audience, helping propel this conversation forward and seeing where it takes us.
03:14 - How's it going, guys?
48:23 - Ethical dilemma of propagating knowledge about Bitcoin to children and family
49:12 - Bitcoiners annoying their children and giving them SATs for Christmas
49:32 - Short time preference and indoctrinating children
50:37 - Switching from pricing in dollars to pricing in sats
51:47 - The need for personal experience and natural cycles to understand Bitcoin
52:33 - Dollar cost averaging (DCA) with savings vs. DCA from the start
53:18 - Risk tolerance and conviction in investing in Bitcoin
56:40 - The importance of starting to stack sats today
01:00:09 - The difficulty of finding a shortcut in Bitcoin education
01:02:03 - The benefits and challenges of dollar cost averaging
01:04:12 - The importance of staying humble and stacking sats
01:08:00 - Options for auto-stacking sats in Europe
01:11:59 - The psychological benefits of auto DCA
01:18:01 - The potential adoption and unit of account for Bitcoin
01:25:08 - The slow adoption of Bitcoin as a unit of account
01:32:54 - Bitcoin adoption in the US
01:33:23 - Impact of banks settling in Bitcoin
01:34:16 - Importance of withdrawing Bitcoin from exchanges
01:35:03 - Discussion on the OCC news
01:38:22 - The future of Bitcoin and shitcoins
01:45:29 - Taproot activation and its impact
01:49:12 - Bitcoin mining and the supply shock
02:03:33 - The role of girlfriends and wives in the Bitcoin community
02:11:43 - Bisq and counterparty risk
02:20:18 - Discussion on new solutions emerging in the Bitcoin space
02:21:16 - The importance of using a dedicated computer for Cold Guard
02:22:01 - Acknowledgment of the audience and announcement of the next show
WEBVTT
NOTE
Transcription provided by Podhome.fm
Created: 3/17/2024 4:34:44 PM
Duration: 8807.628
Channels: 1
1
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:10.825
Pay the players in US dollars what the players or agents do with the money is up to them. How do headlines like Panthers' Russell Okung becomes first NFL player to be paid in Bitcoin
2
00:00:11.445 --> 00:00:12.905
prop up this cryptocurrency
3
00:00:13.445 --> 00:00:14.344
market, Jack?
4
00:00:15.550 --> 00:00:28.215
Here's my message to the NFL when they come out with headlines like that. You're right. We we don't have no relationship to the NFL. The NFL would never let Russell do anything like this. The NFL does not treat their players fair. Athletes
5
00:00:28.835 --> 00:00:30.535
operate as independent businesses
6
00:00:30.915 --> 00:00:50.265
and take care of themselves because they should because no one else does it for them And that's not fair. Russell wanted Bitcoin and they wouldn't allow it. So what I did is I built a consumer facing product where you don't have to go through HR, you don't have to go through payroll. It's in the hands of the individual. If the individual wants to allocate a percentage of their
7
00:00:50.725 --> 00:00:55.610
income of their paycheck and save it and protect their wealth and free themselves.
8
00:00:56.230 --> 00:01:28.595
They have the power to do that with this product and we don't need anyone's permission for that. So why is the NFL disassociating from this headline? I don't know, but I could tell you this. It doesn't surprise me one bit. That's right on brand with them and Russell's doing what's in his best interest and what's in his family's best interest and we're here to support that. And so, you know, I think Bitcoin is gonna continue to make headlines. It's the biggest thing that's ever happened while any of us have been alive. It's a transformative technology and it's ushering in one of the greatest wealth transfers of all time and it's ultimately hope for humanity.
9
00:01:29.295 --> 00:01:34.659
And so whether it's the NFL or whatever's next, it'll always be in the headlines. But in particular,
10
00:01:35.040 --> 00:01:39.620
the NFL's disassociation from what Russell is doing is, I mean, it's exemplifying
11
00:01:40.295 --> 00:01:47.195
of exactly the problem that Russell is trying to solve and I couldn't be more proud of Russell. This is actually all about him and less about me,
12
00:01:47.520 --> 00:02:02.985
but I'm happy and proud of my company in aiding towards his effort. I think it's a big deal for not only athletes, but for the everyday individual that's looking to protect themselves from asset inflation and the Federal Reserve's absolute must in printing cash.
13
00:02:04.005 --> 00:02:04.505
Jack,
14
00:02:41.940 --> 00:02:46.920
Yo, freaks. It's your boy, Matt Odell, here for episode 3 of Citadel Dispatch.
15
00:02:47.460 --> 00:02:49.000
Very excited for this one.
16
00:02:49.525 --> 00:02:52.905
We have our good friends, Durjiji and Croesusbtc
17
00:02:53.605 --> 00:02:54.265
with us.
18
00:02:55.285 --> 00:03:00.810
We will be discussing the main topics we'll be discussing today is Shitcoin Regrets and Pricing the World in Sats,
19
00:03:01.270 --> 00:03:03.450
but we won't stop there. As you guys know,
20
00:03:04.470 --> 00:03:08.815
no topics are off limits here. So, we're looking forward to you guys in the audience,
21
00:03:09.275 --> 00:03:13.775
helping propel this conversation forward and seeing where it takes us. How's it going, guys?
22
00:03:14.430 --> 00:03:16.049
Hey. Happy to be here.
23
00:03:16.670 --> 00:03:19.730
Yeah. Going well. I'm stoked after watching Jack there.
24
00:03:21.665 --> 00:03:23.765
Should get you hyped. Right? Yeah.
25
00:03:24.465 --> 00:03:26.725
He wasn't pulling any punches. That's great.
26
00:03:27.505 --> 00:03:37.760
Yeah. It's it's it's hard not to be hyped right now because just it seems like everything is happening at once. You know, like, all the all the things that Bitcoin has have been writing about for a couple of years are,
27
00:03:38.425 --> 00:03:41.965
all happening at the same time, and that's just how it seems to be happening.
28
00:03:42.265 --> 00:03:46.525
You know, as they say, grad gradually than suddenly. And we see, you know, like,
29
00:03:47.630 --> 00:03:50.349
players getting their salary in sets pretty much,
30
00:03:50.910 --> 00:03:58.295
in a roundabout way be it. But still, we see speculative attacks. We see, you know, streaming sets. We see all all kinds of beautiful
31
00:03:58.755 --> 00:03:59.255
things.
32
00:03:59.875 --> 00:04:02.915
So one of the ways I like to start the show is is asking,
33
00:04:03.315 --> 00:04:05.335
everyone what they're having to drink today.
34
00:04:06.340 --> 00:04:09.240
I expect everyone in the audience to let us know via text.
35
00:04:10.100 --> 00:04:16.245
Gigi, are you enjoying anything with us today? Oh, yeah. I as I told you, I had, like, a time zone.
36
00:04:17.185 --> 00:04:23.125
Yeah. I I messed up my time zone. Let's put it like that. And I I started 2 hours early, actually, and I popped open,
37
00:04:23.660 --> 00:04:27.199
a Taliska storm for you, Matt. So that's what I'm drinking.
38
00:04:30.699 --> 00:04:32.455
Okay. Glasses. I like that.
39
00:04:33.475 --> 00:04:33.975
Nice.
40
00:04:34.595 --> 00:04:35.735
That's a good plop.
41
00:04:36.995 --> 00:04:39.175
Talents are solid. I'm actually drinking,
42
00:04:40.035 --> 00:04:41.175
mezcal today.
43
00:04:42.350 --> 00:04:44.690
I have no idea how to pronounce it. Del Megui.
44
00:04:45.950 --> 00:04:48.770
Definitely just butchered it. That's perfect.
45
00:04:49.785 --> 00:04:50.185
But,
46
00:04:50.905 --> 00:04:51.965
mezcal is fantastic.
47
00:04:52.345 --> 00:04:53.324
I think it's like,
48
00:04:53.945 --> 00:04:57.405
it you know, I I think it's got a very Scotch like taste to me.
49
00:04:58.100 --> 00:04:59.800
I'm 2 hours ahead, so,
50
00:05:00.980 --> 00:05:05.080
excuse me if I'm a little bit more buzzy than usual. So
51
00:05:05.905 --> 00:05:08.805
I'll try my best to stay sober for as long as I can.
52
00:05:09.185 --> 00:05:11.925
Let her rip, Gigi. Let's hear what you wrote then.
53
00:05:12.370 --> 00:05:16.069
Yeah. You know, it's it's time for a little bit of celebration. It's just,
54
00:05:17.490 --> 00:05:18.229
every day
55
00:05:18.690 --> 00:05:22.775
every day, every one of us wakes up no no matter where you are in the world, It's like,
56
00:05:24.195 --> 00:05:28.855
you know, Bitcoin is waking up with a large green boner in in in her pants.
57
00:05:29.235 --> 00:05:30.050
And it's just
58
00:05:31.009 --> 00:05:33.110
it's just wild to see. It's a wild ride.
59
00:05:34.210 --> 00:05:34.710
Yeah.
60
00:05:35.810 --> 00:05:36.310
Yeah.
61
00:05:36.849 --> 00:05:38.949
I'm drinking mozzallo over here. So,
62
00:05:39.604 --> 00:05:43.145
there's just what was left in the fridge. I guess I finished my IPA,
63
00:05:43.925 --> 00:05:46.425
but my 6 pack of vlogging is yesterday. So
64
00:05:46.965 --> 00:05:47.945
is on the menu.
65
00:05:48.979 --> 00:05:51.879
There you go. Well, cheers to all the freaks out there.
66
00:05:54.020 --> 00:05:55.159
You know, I'm I'm,
67
00:05:55.705 --> 00:05:59.805
I'm I'm very excited as usual to to get going here on Citadel Dispatch.
68
00:06:00.585 --> 00:06:06.479
I I guess, you know, the best place to start seems, you know, seems to be this Russell Okung news.
69
00:06:06.960 --> 00:06:07.780
We have,
70
00:06:08.720 --> 00:06:14.065
the 1st NFL player that's that's being so called paid in stats, and I was wondering what your guys' take is here on
71
00:06:15.505 --> 00:06:18.545
this. Yeah. I think it was just a matter of time until something like that,
72
00:06:20.145 --> 00:06:24.990
it was going to happen. And, of course, it it made a big splash and, it's a very strong
73
00:06:25.290 --> 00:06:26.270
PR move.
74
00:06:26.970 --> 00:06:35.475
But I think, you know, the way I like to think about that is that there are some people that have been living on a Bitcoin standard for quite some time that have been, you know,
75
00:06:35.935 --> 00:06:36.435
auditing,
76
00:06:37.889 --> 00:06:50.165
half their income, not if they still earn fiat, they're even people that are have been earning stocks for quite a while. And I just see the circle of people living on a Bitcoin standard expanding. And with Michael Saylor, for example, we saw,
77
00:06:50.865 --> 00:06:51.764
you know, a company
78
00:06:52.145 --> 00:06:52.965
moving into
79
00:06:53.419 --> 00:06:56.400
a similar direction. And, of course, there are smaller companies that,
80
00:06:57.180 --> 00:07:05.105
operate on sets as well. And so yeah. I think that's that's that's one way to think about it. That's just more and more people are,
81
00:07:06.125 --> 00:07:15.250
jumping on the train of the Bitcoin standard, and the Bitcoin standard is priced in sets. And so your salary or part of it is gonna be priced in sets, and you just love to see it.
82
00:07:16.910 --> 00:07:18.530
Yeah. Yeah. I think about
83
00:07:19.550 --> 00:07:24.895
I feel like the the last year has been the year of, like, 0 to 1 firsts
84
00:07:25.595 --> 00:07:29.535
for Bitcoin in in several ways. Like, we had Paul Tudor Jones
85
00:07:30.240 --> 00:07:32.100
being, like, the first big name investor
86
00:07:32.560 --> 00:07:34.260
coming out and saying, actually,
87
00:07:35.040 --> 00:07:36.100
Bitcoin is legit,
88
00:07:36.880 --> 00:07:40.255
and going to be the fastest horse. Then we had MicroStrategy,
89
00:07:41.675 --> 00:07:45.810
being the 1st corporate treasury, 1st public company, corporate treasury to say
90
00:07:46.370 --> 00:07:49.750
we're are going to choose Bitcoin over dollars,
91
00:07:50.690 --> 00:07:52.070
and that set a precedent
92
00:07:52.690 --> 00:07:54.710
just like Paul Tudor Jones set a precedent.
93
00:07:55.615 --> 00:07:57.075
And we've we've been
94
00:07:57.615 --> 00:07:58.915
witnessing those precedents
95
00:07:59.615 --> 00:08:00.755
turn into a triple,
96
00:08:01.455 --> 00:08:02.995
of more people following
97
00:08:03.690 --> 00:08:08.910
suit and, you know, the the institutional buying over the last 3 months has
98
00:08:09.690 --> 00:08:13.805
been, you know, a direct follow on from those precedents.
99
00:08:14.585 --> 00:08:17.165
And then now with Russell, we are seeing
100
00:08:17.785 --> 00:08:18.365
a first
101
00:08:19.060 --> 00:08:22.280
with, a totally different type of adoption than
102
00:08:22.580 --> 00:08:27.880
than, you know, anything else we've we've seen before. It's like big name, high salary individuals
103
00:08:28.855 --> 00:08:30.955
demanding to be be paid in Bitcoin.
104
00:08:31.335 --> 00:08:32.475
And now the infrastructure
105
00:08:33.495 --> 00:08:37.035
of Stripe making that possible has this multiplicative
106
00:08:37.415 --> 00:08:43.089
effect of, like, the possibilities of Bitcoin adoption are so much greater now than they were 4 years ago.
107
00:08:43.470 --> 00:08:43.970
And
108
00:08:44.830 --> 00:08:48.835
and now these new precedents are possible and we'll see what what sort of,
109
00:08:49.555 --> 00:08:50.055
followers,
110
00:08:51.315 --> 00:08:53.495
follow suit from Russell's News.
111
00:08:55.395 --> 00:08:56.535
Yeah. I mean, I think,
112
00:08:57.510 --> 00:09:01.529
you know, as as Gigi said, a lot of us a lot of us have been
113
00:09:02.630 --> 00:09:05.265
basically doing what Russ is doing now,
114
00:09:06.125 --> 00:09:08.225
including Russ himself, presumably,
115
00:09:09.165 --> 00:09:16.740
you know, taking your fiat paycheck and basically using it to to dollar cost average into Bitcoin, to stack into Bitcoin as much as possible.
116
00:09:17.440 --> 00:09:17.940
But
117
00:09:18.785 --> 00:09:23.685
this is more of a it feels more of like a signaling mechanism to me. It feels like something that really,
118
00:09:24.464 --> 00:09:37.795
flips a switch in people's heads, you know, that that you're getting paid in better money. You're not getting paid like, no one gets paid in Apple stock or something. It takes it away from being like an investment. It it makes it more tangible. And and and, really, if you're not pricing
119
00:09:38.735 --> 00:09:40.675
everything in your life and sats already,
120
00:09:41.935 --> 00:09:42.995
you're short Bitcoin.
121
00:09:43.454 --> 00:09:43.954
But,
122
00:09:45.330 --> 00:09:52.950
it it's good to see, you know, one step towards that to that ultimate goal. Right? Because I I think I think the the ultimate
123
00:09:54.275 --> 00:10:07.560
direction that Bitcoiners end up at is that they realize that everything is priced in Sats, your take home pay is priced in Sats like you said, this is best basically, your worth on a yearly basis, and that goes down year over year over year forever.
124
00:10:08.899 --> 00:10:11.720
Yeah. And this realization leads you to,
125
00:10:12.705 --> 00:10:20.940
making several investments, for example, in a haircutting machine and you start to cut your own hair because every time you you go to a hairdresser, it's just millions and millions of sets.
126
00:10:21.420 --> 00:10:21.920
So,
127
00:10:22.620 --> 00:10:25.920
yeah. I think this this calculation that the con is still doing,
128
00:10:26.300 --> 00:10:28.640
more and more people are waking up to that. And,
129
00:10:29.714 --> 00:10:30.855
yeah, as as,
130
00:10:31.634 --> 00:10:36.454
Vic Contina also likes to say, you know, he he he's he's been saying it since forever that,
131
00:10:37.010 --> 00:10:41.110
what we're witnessing is the whole world being repriced in sets. And and,
132
00:10:41.890 --> 00:10:42.290
yeah, I,
133
00:10:43.170 --> 00:10:51.665
you can think of it as the great reset, so to speak. And it's it's it's just beautiful to to see Did that work yesterday or 2 days ago?
134
00:10:52.080 --> 00:11:00.245
That this is actually happening, you know, and it's it's happening as you say. Like, the the Bitcoin hive mind is more and more expanding. And at first, it was, like,
135
00:11:00.964 --> 00:11:09.065
2, 3 crazy people on Bitcoin Twitter that that were just, like, you know, sell your chairs and cut your own hair and so on and so forth. And I I I think
136
00:11:09.430 --> 00:11:26.360
that the circle of of people that understand it will just expand and expand. And it it's in part because of just the general macro situation and people just realizing that MoneyPrint TO GO BR won't stop anytime soon. And on the other hand, I think it's also because there's just so much information,
137
00:11:26.980 --> 00:11:33.560
pure Bitcoin only information out there. You can really educate yourself quite quickly as compared to, let's say, like, 2015.
138
00:11:34.305 --> 00:11:38.805
And it's it's really distilled, and it's also distilled in memes. And it's just
139
00:11:39.185 --> 00:11:39.925
it's just
140
00:11:40.305 --> 00:11:43.285
iteration upon iteration upon iteration. And
141
00:11:44.209 --> 00:11:55.315
in the end, you know, I think what most people will have a problem with is that it almost sounds too easy. You know? Like, just stack sets stack sets until hyperbitcoinization
142
00:11:55.695 --> 00:11:59.714
is complete. Sounds like a fucking scam. Yeah. Yeah. It sounds like a degenerational
143
00:12:00.495 --> 00:12:00.995
wealth.
144
00:12:01.329 --> 00:12:07.269
It's impossible. It's it's too good to be true. And I think that's a big reason that precoiners,
145
00:12:07.810 --> 00:12:09.910
especially, you know, my yuppie people,
146
00:12:11.125 --> 00:12:18.970
are not there yet. It's just too good to be true, but that's what we're that's what's happening. That's what we're watching play out in front of us.
147
00:12:21.110 --> 00:12:22.810
So I, you know, I'm
148
00:12:23.350 --> 00:12:25.850
learning as as a host here. This is my
149
00:12:26.515 --> 00:12:29.575
3rd episode of Citadel Dispatch, and I I kind of
150
00:12:29.955 --> 00:12:31.095
fucked up the order.
151
00:12:31.555 --> 00:12:34.615
I guess, like, I'm supposed to in the beginning of the show,
152
00:12:36.420 --> 00:12:39.560
introduce you guys and have you guys, like, explain to the audience,
153
00:12:40.180 --> 00:12:41.480
who the fuck you are.
154
00:12:42.019 --> 00:12:42.519
So
155
00:12:43.220 --> 00:12:45.480
I guess I guess let's start with Gigi. Gigi,
156
00:12:45.955 --> 00:12:49.175
I've known you for a while now. You're I consider you a good friend.
157
00:12:50.595 --> 00:12:52.215
What's the deal with you and Bitcoin?
158
00:12:53.320 --> 00:12:54.540
Yeah. I don't know.
159
00:12:55.160 --> 00:12:56.700
Man, where to start even.
160
00:12:57.480 --> 00:12:59.339
I'm I'm a super slow learner.
161
00:12:59.960 --> 00:13:00.940
I think that's
162
00:13:01.645 --> 00:13:03.825
that's what I learned from Bitcoin. So
163
00:13:04.285 --> 00:13:13.700
in one way or another, I I've been in touch with Bitcoin for quite a while, but it took me so long to really dive in and understand it. And I think my biggest problem was,
164
00:13:14.660 --> 00:13:19.800
that I come from a tech background, and I studied computer science, and I just didn't
165
00:13:20.175 --> 00:13:24.755
I just didn't see the money in it. I only saw the tech, and so I got lured into,
166
00:13:25.535 --> 00:13:28.355
all kinds of shit kinds, like every shit kind under the sun.
167
00:13:28.730 --> 00:13:32.990
And I just didn't understand what it's all about and this that this is actually a monetary
168
00:13:33.370 --> 00:13:54.475
revolution. And, once I understood that, I kind of wanted to tell other people about it because I thought it's kind of important, and that led me to writing a bunch of articles. And those articles actually turned into a book called 21 Lessons. And I think that's what most people know me for. So I'm the author of 21 Lessons, and you can read the book online for free and also listen to the audiobook online for free on 21 lessons com.
169
00:13:58.394 --> 00:14:02.175
Yeah. I mean, 21 lessons is fucking fantastic, so everyone should go check that out.
170
00:14:02.690 --> 00:14:04.950
Yeah. Of course, the story got good news.
171
00:14:05.410 --> 00:14:24.339
But I I'm not sure if I want to just harp on and harp on. So I'm I'm now I'm now in Bitcoin full time. I did I did, a bunch of other things in the Bitcoin space. I started Bitcoin Resources. I wrote a bunch of other articles. I'm working on the second book. I'm now part of the Swan Bitcoin team, and I'm doing engineering there and also What's the deal with that? What are you doing? Yeah.
172
00:14:25.519 --> 00:14:26.980
Yeah. So I'm I'm working,
173
00:14:27.805 --> 00:14:29.185
full stack pretty much.
174
00:14:30.045 --> 00:14:35.824
Yeah. It's it's not too long ago that I joined, so I'm I'm still kind of feeling like the new guy,
175
00:14:36.204 --> 00:14:55.685
but it's it's getting better every day. And, yeah, I have the privilege to work in Bitcoin full time, and I love every minute of it. And I'm very grateful, to be part of this one because I think auto DCA is the best thing you can do for yourself and also for for, like, a peaceful and less critical transition towards a global Bitcoin standard.
176
00:14:56.170 --> 00:14:56.670
And,
177
00:14:57.529 --> 00:14:58.970
Yeah. Corin and Jan,
178
00:14:59.370 --> 00:14:59.870
started
179
00:15:00.410 --> 00:15:01.069
Swan Bitcoin
180
00:15:01.690 --> 00:15:05.265
not too long ago. I think I I guess it went live in March
181
00:15:06.145 --> 00:15:07.125
last year, so
182
00:15:07.985 --> 00:15:09.765
not even a year old. And,
183
00:15:10.625 --> 00:15:14.360
yeah, I I just reached out and was like, if you're just looking for,
184
00:15:15.140 --> 00:15:17.480
coders that know that know their way around
185
00:15:17.860 --> 00:15:23.080
code bases and tech and stuff, I'm willing to help. And so, yeah, they they were happy to
186
00:15:23.524 --> 00:15:27.625
to have me on board. And ever since yeah. I'm I'm
187
00:15:28.644 --> 00:15:30.660
I'm I'm chilling in the pond with the guys.
188
00:15:31.060 --> 00:15:35.639
And the Swan team is going strong. And we're trying our best to educate people and also
189
00:15:36.339 --> 00:15:39.240
provide easy and low fee services to,
190
00:15:39.855 --> 00:15:42.035
yeah, to basically auto DCA and buy Bitcoin.
191
00:15:42.735 --> 00:15:44.675
Okay. We appreciate the shield, Gigi.
192
00:15:45.295 --> 00:15:47.075
Crow, what's the deal with you?
193
00:15:48.060 --> 00:15:51.360
Yeah. So I guess similar to Gigi, I,
194
00:15:52.779 --> 00:15:56.160
first came at all this from like a technology investment
195
00:15:57.975 --> 00:15:58.475
lens
196
00:15:59.095 --> 00:15:59.595
and
197
00:16:02.135 --> 00:16:04.555
heard about it from like more technical classmates.
198
00:16:06.080 --> 00:16:09.380
Business school actually got me interested in Ethereum,
199
00:16:10.320 --> 00:16:11.140
back then.
200
00:16:11.520 --> 00:16:12.740
And so I
201
00:16:13.514 --> 00:16:13.834
took the
202
00:16:15.035 --> 00:16:16.714
someone recently described it as,
203
00:16:17.675 --> 00:16:18.175
the
204
00:16:18.635 --> 00:16:20.415
the the most painful path to Bitcoin,
205
00:16:22.740 --> 00:16:24.680
AKA going through alt coins first.
206
00:16:26.820 --> 00:16:30.965
I was interested in Ethereum and then that led to a whole bunch of other alt coins
207
00:16:31.425 --> 00:16:32.545
in in the last,
208
00:16:33.265 --> 00:16:34.165
major cycle,
209
00:16:34.785 --> 00:16:40.660
2016, 17. That was what I was doing. Rode that up and then rode it all the way down in 2018,
210
00:16:42.240 --> 00:16:45.380
and was frustrated as all hell about, like, why were my
211
00:16:45.705 --> 00:16:47.965
wonderful technology altcoins underperforming
212
00:16:49.865 --> 00:16:51.645
and was forced to finally
213
00:16:52.105 --> 00:16:57.490
pay attention to these lunatic Bitcoin maximalists who had been ranting and raving about
214
00:16:58.029 --> 00:16:59.250
about, you know, everything,
215
00:16:59.709 --> 00:17:01.329
to anyone who would listen,
216
00:17:02.065 --> 00:17:06.085
and also telling everybody to, you know, who was in altcoins to
217
00:17:06.465 --> 00:17:06.965
to,
218
00:17:07.585 --> 00:17:09.925
go curl up and die or kind of sentiment.
219
00:17:11.520 --> 00:17:16.020
And so finally got around to reading the Bitcoin standard and realized that
220
00:17:16.400 --> 00:17:20.085
that actually this rabbit hole goes way deeper, way way deeper.
221
00:17:20.465 --> 00:17:21.125
In fact,
222
00:17:21.505 --> 00:17:23.045
undoes all of the MBA
223
00:17:23.665 --> 00:17:24.965
education and,
224
00:17:25.665 --> 00:17:26.725
management consulting
225
00:17:28.330 --> 00:17:30.910
knowledge that I received in my career
226
00:17:31.450 --> 00:17:32.830
and had to
227
00:17:33.930 --> 00:17:39.185
get deep enough to to understand that my my understanding of economics and how,
228
00:17:40.125 --> 00:17:43.185
central banking works and how money works was completely wrong.
229
00:17:43.769 --> 00:17:47.070
And, that Bitcoin is on an inevitable path to
230
00:17:47.690 --> 00:17:49.549
to overtake those institutions
231
00:17:49.850 --> 00:17:52.990
and replace them as a base layer layer of our civilization.
232
00:17:54.525 --> 00:17:56.125
So that's sort of been my arc,
233
00:17:56.525 --> 00:17:57.585
to get to Bitcoin
234
00:17:57.965 --> 00:18:03.210
but it started by, you know, being a greedy technology investor trying to make a buck
235
00:18:03.770 --> 00:18:04.590
off of, you know,
236
00:18:04.890 --> 00:18:06.510
these these new forms of digital
237
00:18:06.970 --> 00:18:07.470
money
238
00:18:07.850 --> 00:18:10.669
and and payment rails that I thought Ethereum,
239
00:18:12.185 --> 00:18:13.245
was going to be.
240
00:18:18.665 --> 00:18:20.125
Well, thank you for that confession.
241
00:18:21.169 --> 00:18:22.309
We appreciate it.
242
00:18:23.009 --> 00:18:23.509
I,
243
00:18:24.289 --> 00:18:30.629
I kinda love that I just put the price ticker at the start of this episode and it's just been it's just been pumping. So,
244
00:18:31.525 --> 00:18:33.625
you're not really a freak if you're not trying to,
245
00:18:33.925 --> 00:18:38.985
you know, stack to increase that the price over 35 k while we're live on air here.
246
00:18:40.250 --> 00:18:47.550
I I love the guy fartface 2 2,002. He's like, can we slow down the price ticker? You know, it's just that's popping popping way too hard.
247
00:18:52.465 --> 00:18:55.365
Yeah. So, I mean, I I think that's a good entry point here.
248
00:18:56.385 --> 00:18:58.770
I wanna talk about shitcoin regrets.
249
00:19:00.610 --> 00:19:01.510
I don't know.
250
00:19:01.890 --> 00:19:10.885
And then, yeah, and then we'll go back to pricing the world in sats maybe, and then we'll continue from there. Maybe that'll be the plan, unless someone in in the audience hits us with some,
251
00:19:11.985 --> 00:19:17.524
you know, really bold question or something, and then we'll just go on some really long tangent. Or if the price just pumps,
252
00:19:18.190 --> 00:19:23.170
then we might just lose focus and just I'll just pull up a chart and we can stare at it together.
253
00:19:24.895 --> 00:19:27.075
So Normal. Shitcoin regrets.
254
00:19:27.695 --> 00:19:30.515
I I think most people come in
255
00:19:31.750 --> 00:19:35.450
through the Shitcoin side. It it maybe recently it's different,
256
00:19:36.150 --> 00:19:43.115
because we have this, you know, expansive, like, Bitcoin only network almost that has that been has been nurtured on Bitcoin, Twitter,
257
00:19:43.495 --> 00:19:48.555
and adjacent platforms, and and we have all these podcasts now, and we have stuff like 21 lessons.
258
00:19:49.480 --> 00:19:53.340
We have we have businesses that have basically sprung up like Swan,
259
00:19:53.960 --> 00:19:57.900
and Cash App that are trying to basically leverage that Bitcoin only concept,
260
00:19:58.925 --> 00:20:04.145
as as, you know, as almost a brand building and marketing exercise that that didn't exist last cycle.
261
00:20:04.525 --> 00:20:12.410
But previous to that, a lot of people came in, through shared coins, and then they presumably got burned. They touched the fire like a like a little child,
262
00:20:12.950 --> 00:20:15.290
and then that's when they learned their lesson. Right?
263
00:20:15.845 --> 00:20:16.345
So
264
00:20:17.125 --> 00:20:29.580
I I I think it'd be helpful to people coming in now because they come in now, and their first question, no matter what, everyone's first question is almost always, well, what about this one? Is maybe I missed the boat. Am I too late to buy Bitcoin?
265
00:20:32.575 --> 00:20:34.815
That's awesome. That's a good way to tee this up.
266
00:20:36.015 --> 00:20:36.515
Yeah.
267
00:20:36.895 --> 00:20:39.315
I think like the the refrain that
268
00:20:40.415 --> 00:20:45.970
Bitcoiners need to focus on and that, that exists for us now. And I think is extremely powerful
269
00:20:46.350 --> 00:20:47.090
is that,
270
00:20:47.390 --> 00:20:48.130
you know,
271
00:20:48.510 --> 00:20:50.930
absolute scarcity is a one time invention
272
00:20:51.935 --> 00:20:53.955
and that's Bitcoin and any,
273
00:20:54.495 --> 00:20:55.475
any copy
274
00:20:56.095 --> 00:20:58.915
of a, of a system of digital scarcity
275
00:20:59.520 --> 00:21:01.540
is by definition, not scarce
276
00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:02.500
because
277
00:21:03.120 --> 00:21:09.485
you can what's the marginal cost of creating an additional copy after that? Nothing. So there's there's no
278
00:21:10.105 --> 00:21:13.405
scarcity in any copies of the
279
00:21:14.105 --> 00:21:17.930
first and only instance of digital scarcity that mattered,
280
00:21:18.790 --> 00:21:19.290
Bitcoin.
281
00:21:20.070 --> 00:21:23.195
And and that kind of like philosophical framing of it
282
00:21:23.514 --> 00:21:24.255
didn't exist
283
00:21:24.634 --> 00:21:28.014
a few years ago. In fact, the thing the article that
284
00:21:28.554 --> 00:21:30.654
really put me over the edge on, like,
285
00:21:31.050 --> 00:21:33.790
no altcoin matters at all whatsoever forever,
286
00:21:34.970 --> 00:21:35.790
was Breedlove's
287
00:21:36.410 --> 00:21:40.030
the number 0 in Bitcoin, which was only released like a year ago.
288
00:21:41.725 --> 00:21:46.705
And so, yeah, that it's it's amazing to me that Bitcoin's been around like 12 years now and
289
00:21:48.020 --> 00:21:56.115
we only just figured out the the way to articulate what makes it so special, but now we have it and now we can focus on that and
290
00:21:56.434 --> 00:21:58.695
and nip that question in the bud when
291
00:21:59.315 --> 00:22:02.615
new coiners are trying to find something that can,
292
00:22:02.915 --> 00:22:05.815
you know, something new that they can outpace Bitcoin with.
293
00:22:08.830 --> 00:22:12.769
Yeah. And to be fair, like, it's very difficult to understand.
294
00:22:13.205 --> 00:22:16.505
So to anyone listening to this who still
295
00:22:16.885 --> 00:22:18.025
believes that,
296
00:22:18.965 --> 00:22:22.809
you know, something else will overtake Bitcoin or,
297
00:22:23.530 --> 00:22:25.710
it's it might be worth to diversify
298
00:22:26.730 --> 00:22:29.470
in the quote unquote cryptocurrency space or something.
299
00:22:30.175 --> 00:22:31.155
It it takes
300
00:22:31.695 --> 00:22:40.600
a long time and a lot of deep thinking and a lot of studying also of, monetary history and stuff like that to really understand it and also to understand the fundamentals
301
00:22:41.140 --> 00:22:42.919
why this is true. And
302
00:22:43.380 --> 00:22:43.880
the
303
00:22:44.260 --> 00:22:48.424
the I think that's also the reason why Bitcoin has just just came up with,
304
00:22:49.445 --> 00:22:51.304
shorthand solutions and also
305
00:22:52.005 --> 00:22:52.505
basically
306
00:22:53.205 --> 00:23:04.140
telling people to just have fun staying poor if they are not willing to learn and listen themselves. And that's I I I love how this is, by the way, like, it's it's a distillation of the original Stoshi quote. You know, like, if if you don't get it or,
307
00:23:05.365 --> 00:23:09.545
don't want to believe me, then I don't have the time to explain it to you. So the
308
00:23:09.845 --> 00:23:17.180
I I forget the exact quote, but that's that's basically what what he said. And and so that's basically what Bitcoiners are saying now as well. But
309
00:23:17.480 --> 00:23:19.180
I I also think that it's important
310
00:23:19.720 --> 00:23:29.425
that to point out that this actually can be understood. So I was at a place not too long ago where I didn't understand it at all. And I think I understand it now quite well. Why why it is the case that
311
00:23:29.940 --> 00:23:32.980
Bitcoin is a a 0 to 1 one invention and the
312
00:23:33.380 --> 00:23:37.240
it it is also path dependent invention. Like, it it can be done again. And,
313
00:23:37.985 --> 00:23:41.365
as Krishna said, it's like digital scarcity
314
00:23:41.745 --> 00:23:43.685
only happens once. And Bitcoin
315
00:23:43.985 --> 00:23:45.605
put the cherry on top by
316
00:23:47.090 --> 00:23:47.990
choosing the
317
00:23:48.290 --> 00:23:49.030
the terminal
318
00:23:49.890 --> 00:23:54.710
the terminal inflation rate of 0%. So we we not only have digital scarcity, we have
319
00:23:55.044 --> 00:24:02.985
absolute scarcity, like perfect digital scarcity. We never had that before and and and we will never have that again because you can you can think about it in a way that
320
00:24:04.090 --> 00:24:08.750
the problem that Bitcoin solved, like the problem that Satoshi solved is a very, very peculiar one. Because
321
00:24:09.450 --> 00:24:10.510
you cannot solve
322
00:24:11.414 --> 00:24:21.034
the like, you cannot invent a form of information that cannot be copied. You can always copy information, and you can always copy it perfectly because you always have error correction.
323
00:24:21.640 --> 00:24:58.549
If you can read something, like, if you can read a certain kind of information, you can always copy it. That's just the way information works. And this will always be true, and this is also true in Bitcoin. Like every single part in Bitcoin can be copied. The the ledger is copied all the time. The blocks are copied. Your private key can be copied. You can have, like, 10 different backups in 10 different locations of your private key. Like, nothing is unique in Bitcoin in in the sense of you it cannot be copied, so to speak. The only thing that can't be copied in Bitcoin is an NGU technology. That's what can't be copied. And it's it's really difficult to understand that because what Bitcoin does is it it it builds a protocol, it builds a network that makes invalid copies useless.
324
00:24:58.929 --> 00:25:01.590
So it only takes care of valid copies
325
00:25:01.970 --> 00:25:02.470
and
326
00:25:03.010 --> 00:25:29.055
it it does it in a way that you produce this ledger and this ledger the entries in the ledger are what what are absolutely scarce. And so creating a second ledger that has the same properties is completely senseless because why would you have 2 letters? Like, why why would you it it it it doesn't make sense. And it's it's also you know, you have all the network effects and everything else. It's like talking a different language and and so on and so forth. And I think what's what's important to understand for for newcomers is for other inventions,
327
00:25:29.690 --> 00:25:31.950
it's it's not that it's not that all inventions
328
00:25:32.490 --> 00:25:34.430
tend towards 1. It's also not that all
329
00:25:34.970 --> 00:25:35.470
networks,
330
00:25:36.410 --> 00:25:59.835
tend to trend towards 1. But value does, you know. You can't it doesn't make sense or you it just can't park value in different things. You always have to diversify. You cannot. If if you have a regular file, you can burn it on a CD. If you kids still know what it is, you can put it on a USB stick and you can upload it to some online service and you can upload it to another online service and you can store it on your hard drive and you can print it out and so on and so forth.
331
00:26:00.135 --> 00:26:13.325
But with value, that's not true. You have to decide. You you you either buy a house or you buy stock or you invested in whiskey or something. And and so so money is way, way stronger in that regard than
332
00:26:13.784 --> 00:26:20.520
almost all other things. And money is also a language and and and, yeah, like a communication layer and so on. And
333
00:26:21.060 --> 00:26:25.320
so the the effects that are behind Bitcoin are insanely strong.
334
00:26:25.700 --> 00:26:26.200
And
335
00:26:27.375 --> 00:26:29.794
I I I would I would also point out that
336
00:26:31.054 --> 00:26:35.554
all all the best word the the the buzz words in Bitcoin are so horrible, like how it's cryptocurrency,
337
00:26:36.060 --> 00:26:43.735
even though it doesn't even use encryption in the 1st place. You know, it's just digital sign signatures and and hashes. So nothing is encrypted in Bitcoin ever.
338
00:26:44.274 --> 00:26:44.774
So
339
00:26:45.794 --> 00:26:53.710
it it uses cryptography. Yeah. That's right. But a lot of people talk about, you know, like encrypted money and stuff like that, but that's just not the case. And
340
00:26:54.410 --> 00:26:55.390
the the basic problem
341
00:26:55.850 --> 00:26:57.470
that Bitcoin solves is timing.
342
00:26:57.930 --> 00:27:02.565
And, and I think a lot of people just don't know that and don't don't realize that. And
343
00:27:03.265 --> 00:27:09.365
so so they just get hung up in all kinds of shit coinery in terms of looking into
344
00:27:10.460 --> 00:27:16.480
supply chain stuff and Internet of things stuff and so on and so forth. And they all miss that
345
00:27:16.860 --> 00:27:17.920
you cannot connect
346
00:27:19.045 --> 00:27:22.085
the digital world with the physical world. And this is act
347
00:27:22.805 --> 00:27:24.585
exactly what Bitcoin solved. So
348
00:27:24.885 --> 00:27:27.680
Bitcoin solved the Oracle problem and nothing and,
349
00:27:28.140 --> 00:27:28.640
like,
350
00:27:29.580 --> 00:27:34.320
everyone who's working in cryptocurrency, quote unquote, doesn't understand it. Yep. Yep.
351
00:27:35.265 --> 00:27:37.445
Super important distinction there that
352
00:27:37.745 --> 00:27:40.245
that the the real world cannot be connected.
353
00:27:41.825 --> 00:27:43.684
So any cryptocurrency project
354
00:27:44.690 --> 00:27:45.429
trying to
355
00:27:46.049 --> 00:27:47.909
to bring the blockchain to
356
00:27:49.010 --> 00:27:52.070
supply chain, it it doesn't make any sense ultimately.
357
00:27:53.425 --> 00:27:55.765
And and Gigi, I think that gets back to
358
00:27:56.545 --> 00:27:58.165
like like the the root,
359
00:27:59.105 --> 00:28:03.610
problem that that I fell into and I think a lot of NewCoiners fall into
360
00:28:04.230 --> 00:28:05.610
the flawed thinking
361
00:28:06.550 --> 00:28:08.490
is that we apply the
362
00:28:08.870 --> 00:28:09.929
the framework of
363
00:28:10.895 --> 00:28:13.475
you know, new technology investment
364
00:28:14.175 --> 00:28:15.715
that has been
365
00:28:16.095 --> 00:28:16.595
the
366
00:28:17.535 --> 00:28:23.409
it's the established wisdom after a half century of of of tech growth in,
367
00:28:23.789 --> 00:28:27.730
you know, in the world and in Silicon Valley with hardware and then eventually
368
00:28:28.715 --> 00:28:29.855
software and the Internet,
369
00:28:31.434 --> 00:28:36.735
diversifying and, you know, betting on different projects and teams and all that. That's the winning formula.
370
00:28:37.460 --> 00:28:40.520
And, and that that's been true in all tech investing
371
00:28:41.140 --> 00:28:42.040
until now.
372
00:28:42.500 --> 00:28:43.480
And I think that
373
00:28:43.860 --> 00:28:44.919
in new corners
374
00:28:45.445 --> 00:28:47.705
are likely to bring in that,
375
00:28:49.285 --> 00:28:51.385
that style of thinking that
376
00:28:51.845 --> 00:28:56.300
idea about how to win when investing in a in a new technology.
377
00:28:57.480 --> 00:28:58.860
That's certainly what I did.
378
00:28:59.160 --> 00:28:59.660
And
379
00:29:00.680 --> 00:29:02.540
I guess it's it's it's our
380
00:29:02.904 --> 00:29:04.365
opportunity. It's our responsibility
381
00:29:04.825 --> 00:29:05.645
to try to,
382
00:29:06.024 --> 00:29:09.085
you know, point them in the right direction as soon as possible.
383
00:29:09.625 --> 00:29:10.765
And, you know,
384
00:29:12.360 --> 00:29:14.380
in in in part these these means
385
00:29:15.080 --> 00:29:16.380
of knowledge that
386
00:29:16.840 --> 00:29:19.020
the corners have started to focus in on,
387
00:29:19.895 --> 00:29:22.795
you know, absolute scarcity is the only thing that matters and,
388
00:29:23.735 --> 00:29:26.475
and all of the other valuable Bitcoin means,
389
00:29:27.260 --> 00:29:29.920
you know, infinity divided by 21,000,000
390
00:29:30.620 --> 00:29:34.080
and and all that, that's true and and it's for different reasons than
391
00:29:35.275 --> 00:29:40.015
than anything that was true with the Internet or with hardware or software before that.
392
00:29:40.795 --> 00:29:41.295
And
393
00:29:41.600 --> 00:29:47.860
I think that's the the trap that newcomers fall into, but it's it's where we need to focus to try to steer them away from.
394
00:29:50.505 --> 00:29:57.725
First of all, good points all around. I especially liked Gigi completely ignoring the freaks trying to have fun staying poor him,
395
00:29:58.559 --> 00:30:00.580
while he was while he was talking.
396
00:30:01.520 --> 00:30:04.740
Freaks, I was disappointed in you. I I thought you had him there.
397
00:30:05.679 --> 00:30:06.419
I think,
398
00:30:06.995 --> 00:30:10.434
you know, there's a couple things to unpack here. I think one of the big things,
399
00:30:11.395 --> 00:30:16.135
which Gigi mentioned is that proof of work, I think, is, like, the real innovation here, and people
400
00:30:18.450 --> 00:30:23.830
distributed proof of work. Verifiable proof of work is the real innovation here, and so many people miss that element.
401
00:30:25.170 --> 00:30:26.875
I think, ultimately, at
402
00:30:27.175 --> 00:30:28.235
the end of the day,
403
00:30:29.175 --> 00:30:36.320
people should realize that pretty I think every asset on on earth will trend to 0 in terms of Bitcoin, not just Altcoins.
404
00:30:38.140 --> 00:30:38.640
And
405
00:30:39.500 --> 00:30:42.400
and and so so yes. Like,
406
00:30:43.125 --> 00:30:52.184
before you make any kind of investment in general, like, you should, you know, do your own research and figure things out. But I think for a lot of people, they won't have to get past that aspect.
407
00:30:53.029 --> 00:30:55.130
They don't know how our current money system works.
408
00:30:55.669 --> 00:31:00.330
If they hear that and they see over the next 5 years it continue to happen because it keeps happening,
409
00:31:01.365 --> 00:31:03.384
then they they'll figure it out eventually.
410
00:31:03.764 --> 00:31:04.264
And
411
00:31:05.044 --> 00:31:10.710
last but not least, I think, you know, there's a lot of talk about memeness, meme that, you know, and then kind of tails back into,
412
00:31:11.970 --> 00:31:16.470
pricing things in Sats. How do we meme, you know, Sats the standard into being the standard?
413
00:31:17.345 --> 00:31:22.885
And I think, you know, a good meme is based in reality to begin with. It's not like memes created this reality.
414
00:31:23.345 --> 00:31:23.845
Memes
415
00:31:24.220 --> 00:31:24.720
simply
416
00:31:25.020 --> 00:31:30.240
captured the reality before it was apparent to the mainstream, before it was apparent to everyone else.
417
00:31:30.860 --> 00:31:39.205
Sats were already the standard. You know? The SATs were already the ultimate unit of measurement for the for the whole world. It's just people hadn't realized it yet.
418
00:31:40.230 --> 00:31:42.810
Yeah. Absolutely. And as you rightly point out, sets
419
00:31:43.190 --> 00:31:49.610
are actually the standard in Bitcoin. Like, the only sets exist in Bitcoin. Bitcoins don't really exist. Like, they only exist by convention.
420
00:31:50.095 --> 00:31:53.395
Only sets exist in in the protocol, you know, like,
421
00:31:54.015 --> 00:31:57.715
at the at the base level, so to speak. And I think I think,
422
00:31:58.090 --> 00:31:58.830
you know,
423
00:31:59.169 --> 00:31:59.669
memes
424
00:32:00.010 --> 00:32:01.550
are in a way distilled truth.
425
00:32:01.930 --> 00:32:02.430
And
426
00:32:02.970 --> 00:32:14.135
if the distilled truth is somewhat offensive or funny or sticky, then all the better. And I also think that good good memes are always organic. Like, you the the forced meme doesn't exist. It's just
427
00:32:15.240 --> 00:32:18.220
it just doesn't work. It it doesn't seem to work that way. And,
428
00:32:19.480 --> 00:32:21.980
I I think memes are, in that sense,
429
00:32:22.360 --> 00:32:22.860
also
430
00:32:23.240 --> 00:32:23.740
shortcuts.
431
00:32:24.485 --> 00:32:24.985
And
432
00:32:25.285 --> 00:32:27.305
I I think more and more people
433
00:32:28.325 --> 00:32:32.265
are taking these kind of shortcuts because most people just operate on
434
00:32:33.870 --> 00:32:42.930
following people that they trust. And now we have just some big names switching over to Bitcoin and and saying, like, Bitcoin is here to say and Bitcoin is actually, you know, like, it's it's
435
00:32:43.375 --> 00:32:46.755
it's not only for criminals and it's not just tulips and it's,
436
00:32:47.375 --> 00:32:50.195
and so on and so forth. Like, we have actually
437
00:32:50.900 --> 00:32:59.000
outspoken critics that have changed their mind and and just all kinds of smart people telling you that Bitcoin is the future. And I think that's how more and more people
438
00:33:00.315 --> 00:33:02.554
will find a way into Bitcoin as well because,
439
00:33:03.514 --> 00:33:05.695
they will continue to ask themselves that,
440
00:33:06.075 --> 00:33:14.110
all the smart and respected people, can they be wrong at the same time? Maybe. But maybe there's also something there that you take a second look. And
441
00:33:14.809 --> 00:33:19.794
to to everyone who's listening to this and I mean, I guess all the all the people that are listening, they they
442
00:33:20.415 --> 00:33:22.355
are in the cult anyway. But
443
00:33:22.735 --> 00:33:25.235
just let me tell you, listening to maximalists
444
00:33:25.535 --> 00:33:27.315
is like the ultimate shortcuts
445
00:33:27.740 --> 00:33:37.605
in cheat codes and and understanding and everything else. Like, it's just like we said before, it's it's it it sounds stupid and it sounds too easy, but just, you know,
446
00:33:38.225 --> 00:33:43.605
just stack. And if you think you're doing the like, just listen to fucking American model for for that.
447
00:33:44.860 --> 00:33:51.840
Just if you're if if you're if you have second thoughts, just sec stack harder. And I I think I truly think, like, the best thing you can do is,
448
00:33:52.285 --> 00:34:14.905
educate yourself, try to be productive, try to produce something that other people will actually pay you money for in in in whatever form. So in the end, you can earn sets and just set up Auto DCA until hyperbitcoinization is complete. And that won't be a very long time, I think. You know, like, I I I I've repeated that over and over again. I think we may have seen happening right now. Right? I it's happening before our eyes, but I think It has Somewhere in in 2029,
449
00:34:15.780 --> 00:34:19.560
we will have an event that's that approximates, like, clear hyperbitcoinization
450
00:34:20.020 --> 00:34:47.865
in terms of, you know, like, field currencies failing, stuff like that. Circular economy is forming so large that most most online people are just on the Bitcoin standard and stuff like that. It's it's very hard to define, you know, like it's very hard to define the point of hyperbitcoinization since it's kind of a process. It's like it's like asking when when did the Internet win? When did the Internet take over? It obviously took over, but there's still some people that aren't online, you know. Like, when did the fax machine die? I can't really tell you. There are still people that are using fax machines. Yeah. Craig For sake, I don't know why. Craig
451
00:34:48.325 --> 00:34:49.765
gets his Bitcoin price ticker,
452
00:34:50.165 --> 00:34:51.190
through through the fax.
453
00:34:51.750 --> 00:34:55.450
You know, Gigi, when I asked you to introduce yourself, you gave, like, this really long winded,
454
00:34:55.990 --> 00:34:56.490
in
455
00:34:58.310 --> 00:35:01.795
introduction. But I I think ultimately, like, if I was gonna sum up,
456
00:35:02.255 --> 00:35:06.675
I think your most your most powerful aspect in this space is you're almost like a meme historian,
457
00:35:07.030 --> 00:35:08.570
like a Bitcoin meme historian.
458
00:35:09.830 --> 00:35:14.010
And I wanna I was like, I think this is, like, an interesting topic to bring up with you here live.
459
00:35:14.550 --> 00:35:15.530
I kind of
460
00:35:16.174 --> 00:35:17.954
embrace Have Fun Staying Poor
461
00:35:18.734 --> 00:35:20.115
innately within myself,
462
00:35:20.734 --> 00:35:22.755
not as like a I think it's an hilarious,
463
00:35:23.430 --> 00:35:29.290
dig at someone who's, you know, a Bitcoin denier and attacking us. But I think ultimately, have fun staying poor is, like,
464
00:35:29.750 --> 00:35:34.305
that's the stay humble, stack stats lifestyle. That's that's, you know, that that's like the
465
00:35:34.765 --> 00:35:48.845
the the Bitcoin or, low time preference lifestyle. Right? Where you have to if you can have fun staying poor, then you can stack as many stats as possible, then you've found the cheat code. If you put this Oh, man. Active activity, you're like, you're having fun staying poor by stacking fast?
466
00:35:50.845 --> 00:36:00.330
Yeah. You know you know how the great reset people, they're like, you will own nothing and you will be happy. And I think, you know, if you're doing if you're doing it right in the Bitcoin space,
467
00:36:00.710 --> 00:36:12.605
then you will own nothing but Bitcoin and you will be happy. You know. Like, it's the best thing, you know. Like, rent everything else and just buy Bitcoin. You can rent everything else. Don't rent your Bitcoin people. It's just
468
00:36:13.559 --> 00:36:14.460
rent an apartment,
469
00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:23.735
sell you sell you chairs, sell your cars. Cars are basically chairs on wheels, you know. So yeah. I think I think you're you're you're hitting the nail on the head there. That's,
470
00:36:25.795 --> 00:36:31.349
and and there's a profound truth behind it, you know. Like, Bitcoin is the only thing you can truly own because in Bitcoin,
471
00:36:31.650 --> 00:36:35.349
it's not only that it's it's it's not even that possession is is
472
00:36:35.785 --> 00:36:46.770
the rule of law. Like, you know, like they say that possession is like 9 tenths of the law and and if you if you own something, that's that's how you make sure it's yours. In Bitcoin, it's even, like, worse in kind of way. It it knowledge
473
00:36:47.150 --> 00:36:51.090
is owning something. If if if you have knowledge of a certain kind of information,
474
00:36:52.045 --> 00:36:57.345
you you you own it. And it's it's very difficult to wrap your head around it because can you really say that you own it,
475
00:36:57.645 --> 00:37:10.325
that you own knowledge? You know, like, if if you if let's say you you have a private key and you you transform it into 12 words. You have a you you have a seed phrase that's 12 words long. It's it's quite easy to remember 12 words. So So the Bitcoin are now in your head because that's basically
476
00:37:10.865 --> 00:37:15.900
for all intents and purposes, these are your Bitcoin because, you know, like, Bitcoin don't really exist, but you have those 12 words.
477
00:37:16.359 --> 00:37:31.760
And you can you can share that with your family, for example, you know. Like, if you're really tight knit, I won't recommend it, but just as a as a thought experiment. So now you know these 12 words and your wife knows these 12 words and maybe your 2 kids know these 12 words. Who owns the Bitcoin? Like everyone does. It's it's it's
478
00:37:32.060 --> 00:37:34.720
the the the whole concept of of
479
00:37:35.020 --> 00:37:52.490
property somewhat and and owning something breaks down in in Bitcoin if you think about it in that way. Because yeah. Owning is knowing and knowing is owning. And and that's I think I think that's what makes Bitcoin so fascinating because our laws just can't handle it. You you you will have to you will have to do some
480
00:37:52.845 --> 00:37:56.145
weird gen mental gymnastics to make our existing
481
00:37:56.925 --> 00:38:03.490
code of law work with that with that kind of system. And so yeah. I I I think it's it's just all kinds of
482
00:38:03.790 --> 00:38:04.770
exciting, and
483
00:38:05.070 --> 00:38:09.010
it's it's it's really possible in Bitcoin to have fun and not stay poor because
484
00:38:09.470 --> 00:38:12.575
you can you can do what you want and have your your wealth intact.
485
00:38:15.214 --> 00:38:15.954
I mean,
486
00:38:17.295 --> 00:38:19.555
when the Bitcoin price runs up, I just,
487
00:38:20.100 --> 00:38:23.880
like, we we have no choice. We're gonna you either have to have fun staying poor
488
00:38:24.260 --> 00:38:24.760
or
489
00:38:25.060 --> 00:38:29.480
or or we're just not gonna have fun because we're definitely gonna stay poor regardless.
490
00:38:31.125 --> 00:38:31.625
Like,
491
00:38:31.925 --> 00:38:34.744
they'll know you'll never have enough sats. Like, it's impossible.
492
00:38:35.685 --> 00:38:38.744
You just have to try your best just to have fun staying poor.
493
00:38:40.220 --> 00:38:42.240
Yeah. I I made I made my piece,
494
00:38:43.260 --> 00:38:58.869
I made my piece with that, quite a long while ago, I think. And and maybe maybe that that can loop back also to to, like, the the shitcoin topic because I I got pulled into the shitcoin so hard. Like, I was literally reading every white paper under the sun and try try to understand it all.
495
00:38:59.330 --> 00:39:03.750
And and yeah. No. No. I like, you guys have no idea how much I was into it. And,
496
00:39:04.530 --> 00:39:05.030
so
497
00:39:06.285 --> 00:39:14.670
I I just made peace with that that I would have if if I listened to my own advice that I'm giving now, and I would have listened to the maximalist and just,
498
00:39:16.430 --> 00:39:18.450
yeah, went all in and and just
499
00:39:18.750 --> 00:39:24.835
have been stacking like crazy, I would have way more sets than I do now. But, you know, in the end, nobody really
500
00:39:25.214 --> 00:39:28.595
has any sets because we all like voting anyway. And
501
00:39:29.694 --> 00:39:53.069
that's just the way it goes, you know, Bitcoiners lose the stats from time to time. And so I think, you know, be happy be happy be happy that you're here, be happy that you're dead early, and be happy that you can stack now, and be happy with the good sets that you stack. And don't don't be too hard on yourself even if you, you know, like, a lot of people have shot themselves in the foot and, burn keys and whatnot or just messed up in some other way. And so yeah. Just
502
00:39:53.369 --> 00:39:56.109
as mental health advice, don't don't be too hard on yourself.
503
00:40:02.295 --> 00:40:06.875
And I'm I'm sorry, Chris. I I just, I I didn't let you speak before, but
504
00:40:07.340 --> 00:40:11.760
in my defense, I'm kind I'm kinda drunk and stuff. That's all good, dude. No worries.
505
00:40:12.220 --> 00:40:15.520
Yeah. And you're you're spitting fire too, so it's it's all good.
506
00:40:19.335 --> 00:40:23.575
But, yeah, there was a thought that I wanted to to toss in there when when,
507
00:40:24.295 --> 00:40:26.234
Matt brought up a meme historian.
508
00:40:27.750 --> 00:40:29.690
I feel like I've I've had like a recent
509
00:40:30.470 --> 00:40:31.529
growth and appreciation
510
00:40:31.910 --> 00:40:32.410
for
511
00:40:33.269 --> 00:40:33.769
me.
512
00:40:34.215 --> 00:40:38.075
It's sort of a joke but, like, memes really are how how we win
513
00:40:38.455 --> 00:40:40.955
and not not the not that, like,
514
00:40:42.240 --> 00:40:46.900
we come up with cooler graphics or anything like that, but like the distillation
515
00:40:47.200 --> 00:40:47.700
of
516
00:40:48.160 --> 00:40:53.845
the knowledge that takes a long time to learn into something that's easier to learn over time
517
00:40:54.545 --> 00:40:55.525
is how we
518
00:40:57.185 --> 00:40:58.325
how we broadcast
519
00:40:58.625 --> 00:40:59.605
and onboard
520
00:41:00.309 --> 00:41:00.970
the message
521
00:41:01.349 --> 00:41:02.170
to everybody,
522
00:41:03.190 --> 00:41:05.770
to the mainstream, to people who who aren't
523
00:41:06.390 --> 00:41:11.565
in the habit of being really curious about new technology and and actively learning about it.
524
00:41:12.105 --> 00:41:16.685
They're only gonna listen when when the meme is so simple and they're seeing
525
00:41:17.065 --> 00:41:18.445
other people around them
526
00:41:19.150 --> 00:41:22.850
benefit from taking the advice of that meme. So
527
00:41:23.390 --> 00:41:26.450
recently, I I wrote an article, trying to compare,
528
00:41:28.265 --> 00:41:29.165
Bitcoin adoption
529
00:41:29.625 --> 00:41:34.685
to what it looked like on the, the frontier of the American West, how the
530
00:41:35.050 --> 00:41:36.010
American West was,
531
00:41:36.570 --> 00:41:37.470
was developed,
532
00:41:37.850 --> 00:41:39.630
over the last few 100 years.
533
00:41:40.570 --> 00:41:45.135
And in the process of that, I I think, you know, there's there's sort of two main means
534
00:41:45.515 --> 00:41:46.015
of
535
00:41:47.115 --> 00:41:47.615
advice
536
00:41:47.995 --> 00:41:50.335
for people in the 1800 about
537
00:41:50.920 --> 00:41:53.740
how to make the most of this new frontier and the opportunity
538
00:41:54.200 --> 00:41:54.700
there.
539
00:41:55.400 --> 00:42:02.924
One was go west young man, which is sort of the encapsulation of of everything. Right? Like there's opportunity in the west
540
00:42:03.305 --> 00:42:05.885
and that's where you should go if you wanna make a better life.
541
00:42:06.984 --> 00:42:09.645
And that I didn't notice, but that only
542
00:42:10.740 --> 00:42:11.240
was
543
00:42:11.620 --> 00:42:13.160
was coined as a phrase
544
00:42:13.460 --> 00:42:14.600
in the 18 sixties.
545
00:42:15.140 --> 00:42:15.640
So
546
00:42:16.180 --> 00:42:17.960
that it took decades before
547
00:42:18.675 --> 00:42:19.175
the
548
00:42:19.795 --> 00:42:21.015
the wisdom, the knowledge
549
00:42:21.475 --> 00:42:25.575
was synthesized into something as simple as that. This this meme
550
00:42:26.070 --> 00:42:27.369
go west, Joe Man,
551
00:42:29.110 --> 00:42:33.690
took decades. And because of the Internet, we have and because of Twitter,
552
00:42:33.990 --> 00:42:36.694
we have the advantage of so much more
553
00:42:37.075 --> 00:42:37.575
rapid,
554
00:42:39.635 --> 00:42:41.175
idea exchange and iteration
555
00:42:41.795 --> 00:42:42.194
that,
556
00:42:42.675 --> 00:42:43.974
Bitcoin Twitter can
557
00:42:44.619 --> 00:42:49.760
accelerate that synthesis of of the value of adopting Bitcoin as your unit of account.
558
00:42:50.060 --> 00:42:51.599
And we're not done yet. And,
559
00:42:52.115 --> 00:42:57.095
you know, as those memes improve, we'll reach more and more people who in turn will propagate
560
00:42:57.395 --> 00:42:59.655
that knowledge to more and more people in their world.
561
00:43:00.195 --> 00:43:01.415
And that's how we win.
562
00:43:02.190 --> 00:43:02.930
Yeah. Absolutely.
563
00:43:03.230 --> 00:43:08.130
I I I also think that memes kind of, in a weird way, are the language of the Internet
564
00:43:08.510 --> 00:43:23.020
because they are just so insanely condensed. You know? Like, image macros existed for a long time, and not too long ago, image macros were the only thing that were was known as memes. Now everything is kind of a meme, like, in short videos and stuff like that. That
565
00:43:23.320 --> 00:43:27.005
yeah. The the the memes are real. They they always have been. And
566
00:43:27.785 --> 00:43:28.285
so,
567
00:43:29.065 --> 00:43:30.765
I I actually, I,
568
00:43:31.224 --> 00:43:34.845
I think I heard Wittstein talk about that how how memes are
569
00:43:35.380 --> 00:43:35.880
basically
570
00:43:36.340 --> 00:43:37.000
just supercharged,
571
00:43:38.020 --> 00:43:40.840
rathoric devices and how how it's just rathoric,
572
00:43:41.220 --> 00:43:41.880
on steroids.
573
00:43:42.345 --> 00:44:02.144
And I think that's that's really true. But for for a good meme to to stick and to spread, it also has, as Matt said before, it has to be true. You know? Like, there there has to be there has to be not only a kernel of truth. It it has to hit you in the head how how true it is. Like, that's money print of, you know? That's what the shit corners don't fucking realize. Right? It's like you have these ETH heads on on Twitter,
574
00:44:03.565 --> 00:44:12.670
and and they're like, about Bitcoin's a meme coin, and they're trying to force their own memes, you know, like, Defy and, like, money Legos and shit. But, like, the the the whole,
575
00:44:13.770 --> 00:44:14.590
like, 21,000,000,
576
00:44:14.970 --> 00:44:16.910
this idea of a supply cap
577
00:44:17.935 --> 00:44:19.955
exists because it's so
578
00:44:20.335 --> 00:44:25.155
hard to change it. It's it's it's both socially difficult to change it, and
579
00:44:25.560 --> 00:44:29.580
as a technology, it's been prioritized to allow people to to self
580
00:44:29.960 --> 00:44:31.420
verify and use their own nodes,
581
00:44:32.040 --> 00:44:38.185
and it gives people the, basically, the ability to veto any kind of radical changes, right, and and verify it themselves.
582
00:44:39.125 --> 00:44:51.430
It's not because people's, you know, keep saying 21,000,000 over and over again. That is the that is culmination. This is the the it is the meme the meme is the explanation of something that already exists. You can't
583
00:44:51.810 --> 00:44:54.230
the meme doesn't create the reality. It is the reality.
584
00:44:55.255 --> 00:44:57.195
Yep. It just communicates better.
585
00:44:58.775 --> 00:44:59.835
And I guess the
586
00:45:00.295 --> 00:45:01.390
the core idea, like,
587
00:45:02.190 --> 00:45:05.650
I think it's funny how the Internet has forgotten where the idea of meme,
588
00:45:06.190 --> 00:45:11.250
comes from. And there's a word that was invented or applied by,
589
00:45:12.145 --> 00:45:13.925
Richard Dawkins, I think in
590
00:45:14.545 --> 00:45:17.365
one of his books, I think it might have been The Selfish Gene
591
00:45:19.830 --> 00:45:23.370
To put a label on on this idea that that genes
592
00:45:24.150 --> 00:45:25.050
are information
593
00:45:26.070 --> 00:45:29.130
that are and and and they propagate themselves
594
00:45:30.265 --> 00:45:31.724
and they want to be propagated.
595
00:45:32.265 --> 00:45:36.765
And and so the mean is that unit of that base unit of information
596
00:45:38.150 --> 00:45:39.369
that the gene carries
597
00:45:40.710 --> 00:45:44.925
and and so yeah when we think about internet means with that lens of
598
00:45:45.405 --> 00:45:48.065
the base unit of information that can be propagated,
599
00:45:48.605 --> 00:45:51.745
you know, that's that's what we're that's what we're trying to get towards.
600
00:45:52.210 --> 00:46:00.150
Yeah. And to to dig even even deeper into that, I think I think it just goes way, way deeper. And I I think there's a deeper reason why it works so well in Bitcoin in particular.
601
00:46:00.450 --> 00:46:05.234
And I I also think this is the reason for so many also, you know, like,
602
00:46:06.255 --> 00:46:08.835
cult and religious parallels in Bitcoin that,
603
00:46:10.140 --> 00:46:12.140
you you you rightly pointed out that this was,
604
00:46:13.500 --> 00:46:15.200
coined by Dawkins who,
605
00:46:16.220 --> 00:46:16.720
obviously
606
00:46:17.455 --> 00:46:22.195
took inspiration from genes and how living organisms like, how how the
607
00:46:22.815 --> 00:46:30.069
how how genes spread, but not only genes are spreading, but also in humans, certain ideas are spreading and are mutating and
608
00:46:30.609 --> 00:46:53.155
are useful or not useful. And if they are not useful, then also the meme won't survive. And he was talking in the context of, religions and and other things and other ideas. And I I really like also the the framework that Harari put into place. It was the first time at least when I saw that, he was like that money is a meme as well. Like, he he was saying that money is a religion pretty much. But but those are all, like, informational
609
00:46:53.695 --> 00:46:54.835
constructs that,
610
00:46:55.695 --> 00:47:04.230
people use to coordinate and to agree on reality and stuff like that. And so so Bitcoin is the ultimate meme, you know. Like, Bitcoin is pure information. It's just information. And it's
611
00:47:04.950 --> 00:47:13.985
it it it it is self replicating information as well. Like, it it is the absolute ultimate meme machine, and that's just how it operates. That's how it works. Bitcoin
612
00:47:14.530 --> 00:47:16.470
is the de facto meme machine.
613
00:47:17.250 --> 00:47:20.230
I think that's why it also lends itself so well,
614
00:47:21.010 --> 00:47:29.345
for for memes. And, I mean, there there are deeper reasons to that as well. I I think, you know, in a in a way that the the mined virus also replicates. And,
615
00:47:30.145 --> 00:47:43.605
as we talked before, you you can't really take possession of your Bitcoin, but Bitcoin can definitely take possession of you. And so in a way, you know, like, we are we're Bitcoin lives in us and we're the hosts that's that spread it, and we spread it through through the most effective
616
00:47:43.985 --> 00:47:50.720
means, which are memes and so on and so forth. So I I think I think anyone who's kind of interested in that that should should should check out,
617
00:47:51.160 --> 00:47:52.620
these books and and make up,
618
00:47:53.320 --> 00:47:54.040
his own mind.
619
00:47:54.840 --> 00:47:56.540
What what's what's it all about
620
00:47:57.320 --> 00:47:58.380
in meme and geneland?
621
00:48:00.205 --> 00:48:03.625
So discussing memes and and things being priced in sats, I mean,
622
00:48:04.085 --> 00:48:16.240
do like, should the children of the world be be upset with with with their parents and their grandparents if they were gifted dollars that are just keep collapsing since Christmas? Like, should should there be a should there be a children uprising here?
623
00:48:16.695 --> 00:48:22.475
Yeah. Absolutely. Like, if you're getting cockpucks for for for for Christmas, what what's what's going on with that?
624
00:48:23.175 --> 00:48:25.195
Yeah. The it there's this
625
00:48:25.869 --> 00:48:28.930
ethical moral dilemma of like once you have learned
626
00:48:30.990 --> 00:48:31.650
about bitcoin,
627
00:48:32.190 --> 00:48:33.089
is it ethical
628
00:48:33.974 --> 00:48:35.755
to to not propagate that
629
00:48:36.695 --> 00:48:39.755
that, knowledge to your children or to your friends and family?
630
00:48:42.309 --> 00:48:46.089
It's it's everybody's responsibility to do that once they've learned. So
631
00:48:46.630 --> 00:48:47.770
the the the fact that,
632
00:48:48.470 --> 00:48:50.170
children are being given
633
00:48:51.335 --> 00:48:53.915
dollars for Christmas and watching those dollars
634
00:48:54.375 --> 00:48:55.435
melt in value
635
00:48:56.215 --> 00:48:58.715
is is not the fault of their parents
636
00:48:59.080 --> 00:48:59.820
who don't
637
00:49:00.120 --> 00:49:03.980
know, but it it is wrong of the parents who do know. So
638
00:49:04.360 --> 00:49:05.400
it's interesting how that,
639
00:49:07.025 --> 00:49:10.925
it's arrow of, of Bitcoin adoption goes in one direction.
640
00:49:12.185 --> 00:49:14.845
I mean, I I assume I assume most Bitcoiners,
641
00:49:16.160 --> 00:49:16.660
are
642
00:49:17.520 --> 00:49:22.180
incessantly annoying to their children and are giving them SATs, have been giving them SATs for Christmas
643
00:49:22.480 --> 00:49:25.915
for a while now. And, I I have a feeling their children's,
644
00:49:26.375 --> 00:49:31.035
views on it during bear markets were were were less agreeable than they are now.
645
00:49:31.510 --> 00:49:35.370
For sure. Yeah. I guess, those are our ultimate short time preference,
646
00:49:36.310 --> 00:49:39.865
individuals, because they've only lived so long and they can only think so far out.
647
00:49:42.345 --> 00:49:44.505
But luckily, we have good tools now,
648
00:49:45.385 --> 00:49:46.525
in in terms of
649
00:49:46.985 --> 00:49:48.550
indoctrinating your children.
650
00:49:48.850 --> 00:49:50.870
Like, you you know, we have, chamarine
651
00:49:51.170 --> 00:49:51.670
and
652
00:49:53.330 --> 00:49:56.205
children children's books and all all kinds of things,
653
00:49:56.765 --> 00:49:58.065
that that are actually
654
00:49:58.525 --> 00:50:03.025
fun also during bear markets. But I I like what Chris has said before that,
655
00:50:03.750 --> 00:50:07.369
stacking sets is like a a one way street. I I I really like,
656
00:50:07.990 --> 00:50:17.795
to think that. And I think that's that's also a meme that people need to wrap their head around, and that's very difficult for most people in in my experience to understand that,
657
00:50:18.255 --> 00:50:20.220
this is the end game, you know, like,
658
00:50:20.780 --> 00:50:22.240
switching switching your
659
00:50:22.700 --> 00:50:23.200
viewpoint
660
00:50:23.660 --> 00:50:24.160
from
661
00:50:24.700 --> 00:50:33.105
pricing in dollars to pricing in sets, that's so insanely difficult because most people that have have been caught up in the, quote, unquote, cryptocurrency
662
00:50:33.485 --> 00:50:34.865
craze of, 2017,
663
00:50:35.325 --> 00:50:42.820
they were like, how can I maximize my dollar gains? They were never like, how how can I maximize my gains in in sets? And once you once you start to switch,
664
00:50:43.440 --> 00:50:43.940
things
665
00:50:44.480 --> 00:50:46.500
are getting really different. And
666
00:50:47.145 --> 00:50:51.165
I I think understanding that stacking sets is a one way street is is kind of
667
00:50:51.625 --> 00:50:58.470
the end goal of a long journey. And I'm I'm afraid, like, I'm I'm I'm not we've been talking about memes and shortcuts and all kinds of things,
668
00:50:59.170 --> 00:51:03.990
and I'm afraid that there isn't really a good shortcut. You know, it's it's it's kind of like
669
00:51:05.065 --> 00:51:06.765
it's it's kind of like your grandparents,
670
00:51:08.345 --> 00:51:21.230
spreading a lot of wisdom, but you don't really believe them. You have to live your life you have to make the mistake mistakes on your own, you know. Like, it's if you would have only listened to your grandparents, then you would have would probably be in the way out of place because they're actually
671
00:51:21.530 --> 00:51:26.855
kinda smart and have good advice and know what they're doing. And they they they might not be the best in
672
00:51:27.155 --> 00:51:36.470
in explaining it well, but it's I think it's because you're not receptive. You're not receptive to the ideas. And I think the same is true for, like, shit kindness and no kindness that they are not able to
673
00:51:36.850 --> 00:51:38.550
hear the truth of the maximalists
674
00:51:38.930 --> 00:51:39.430
because
675
00:51:39.735 --> 00:51:43.915
they're not ready to receive these kind of ideas, and they're not not ready to
676
00:51:44.295 --> 00:51:44.375
to,
677
00:51:46.295 --> 00:51:51.800
see the truth for what it is. And they I think a lot of people just have to go through these natural cycles
678
00:51:52.500 --> 00:51:53.640
and and just
679
00:51:54.020 --> 00:51:59.075
experience it and learn it for themselves. Like, as as you say, Matt, all the time is, like, everyone has
680
00:51:59.535 --> 00:52:10.530
to touch the stove at least once, you know. Like, that's that's usually how it goes. A lot more than once and for a lot more things than Bitcoin. I mean, pretty much every way I've learned about everything is just fucking myself,
681
00:52:11.605 --> 00:52:21.260
and then and then learning from it, especially in Bitcoin. My my history of my of my Bitcoin learning is just burning myself over and over and over again and learning in the process.
682
00:52:21.800 --> 00:52:24.859
We have a question here from a good friend of the podcast
683
00:52:25.319 --> 00:52:27.180
and text based host, 6102
684
00:52:27.480 --> 00:52:38.110
Bitcoin. Should newcomers go all in with savings than DCA with their income or just DCA from the start? When he says DCA, he means dollar cost averaging, colloquially known as stacking sats.
685
00:52:39.310 --> 00:52:42.610
So I'm I'm facing I'm dealing with this question from
686
00:52:43.230 --> 00:52:44.210
from my, like,
687
00:52:44.750 --> 00:52:46.610
my MBA classmates and
688
00:52:47.125 --> 00:52:51.224
all the colleagues right now who are all of a sudden interested at 30,000
689
00:52:52.165 --> 00:52:54.424
and ignoring the 10,000 and before.
690
00:52:56.390 --> 00:52:57.290
And, yeah, it's a it's
691
00:52:57.670 --> 00:52:58.170
a
692
00:52:58.950 --> 00:53:02.570
it's an impossible question, I guess, because it's up to everybody's
693
00:53:03.030 --> 00:53:03.850
risk tolerance.
694
00:53:04.485 --> 00:53:06.905
But not really risk tolerance it's up to their conviction.
695
00:53:07.445 --> 00:53:10.745
You know, you can only put in as much as you feel comfortable with
696
00:53:11.819 --> 00:53:14.720
and the maximum that you are comfortable with
697
00:53:15.020 --> 00:53:17.920
is directly correlated to your level of knowledge.
698
00:53:18.655 --> 00:53:19.875
So the more you learn,
699
00:53:20.575 --> 00:53:21.235
the more
700
00:53:21.615 --> 00:53:23.155
you are comfortable holding
701
00:53:23.615 --> 00:53:26.595
a greater percentage of your total net worth in bitcoin.
702
00:53:28.089 --> 00:53:28.589
And
703
00:53:29.049 --> 00:53:30.589
what's amazing to me is how
704
00:53:31.130 --> 00:53:33.549
how the people that I've been talking to recently
705
00:53:34.345 --> 00:53:38.045
view any small percentage of Bitcoin as a risk,
706
00:53:38.424 --> 00:53:40.444
you know, and and as a Bitcoiner,
707
00:53:41.150 --> 00:53:49.730
the risk to me is is so you're telling me you have a 100% of your net worth in in dollars or, you know, that financial system
708
00:53:50.674 --> 00:53:52.615
or isn't isn't that risky? So,
709
00:53:54.275 --> 00:53:56.535
in my mind, it's like, what percentage
710
00:53:56.994 --> 00:53:58.295
of your network can
711
00:53:58.740 --> 00:54:01.320
get comfortable with shifting into this
712
00:54:01.780 --> 00:54:09.735
other asset class and then start DCA it DCA. And but it's just so hard to get them, you know, off 0 at all. But
713
00:54:10.275 --> 00:54:11.815
take what you can get, I guess.
714
00:54:12.275 --> 00:54:12.935
I mean,
715
00:54:13.715 --> 00:54:24.020
I I think it's an interesting I idea. Right? Because I think for bit right, like, when we have doll extra dollars, we feel like that's too risky. It's almost too risky to not have Bitcoin.
716
00:54:25.025 --> 00:54:30.405
I I I've been playing around with that framing on Twitter for instance in the other day. I mean, I sent out a tweet,
717
00:54:30.865 --> 00:54:34.085
that was that was basically that framing was it's you know,
718
00:54:34.430 --> 00:54:40.530
honestly, I just don't have the convictions to buy conviction to buy dollars with my stats, you know. It's just too risky for me.
719
00:54:41.955 --> 00:54:46.135
But at the same time, you have the overwhelming majority of people who,
720
00:54:46.835 --> 00:54:47.895
whether for,
721
00:54:49.395 --> 00:54:54.600
good reason or not, they feel the opposite. Right? And there's gonna be, like, a turning point at some point,
722
00:54:55.300 --> 00:54:58.920
where it's there's gonna be massive change because those people
723
00:54:59.285 --> 00:55:03.465
are gonna come around onto the extreme side. Because I feel like once you start
724
00:55:03.925 --> 00:55:04.425
stacking,
725
00:55:04.885 --> 00:55:10.890
there's really no going back. From that point on, you're just increasing and increasing and increasing, and you just can't get enough.
726
00:55:12.230 --> 00:55:16.090
You know, one thing here that I think people miss is, like, yeah, like, if you look back
727
00:55:17.704 --> 00:55:26.170
at at at any point in history, you know, the price was cheaper than it is today. It's easy to say when you're sitting at all time highs, like, oh, I should have went all in
728
00:55:26.710 --> 00:55:29.770
at any point, literally any point before now,
729
00:55:30.390 --> 00:55:33.690
and then continued stacking from there. But I think the cool part about
730
00:55:34.215 --> 00:55:54.944
staying humble and stacking sets, and that staying humble part is key is because so many people have an issue with getting in the door. You know, they they come in, they start paying attention to stuff, and they're like, oh, I'm gonna wait for Hyperwave. I'm gonna wait till 25100 till it falls down a little bit. Or even now, like, people are like, I'm gonna wait till it falls under 30 and then I'm gonna go all in. The nice thing about stacking from the beginning
731
00:55:55.645 --> 00:56:00.970
is that it's it's an easy decision for someone to make. It's an easy decision for someone to say, okay,
732
00:56:01.750 --> 00:56:14.045
instead of wasting $10 or $15 on cigarettes per day, I'm gonna put that into Bitcoin, and if I lose it, I lose it. You know? So they can actually get in. So maybe really what it looks like,
733
00:56:14.760 --> 00:56:19.980
in practice I mean, everyone's different is is you kinda come in on a on a on a small DCA
734
00:56:20.600 --> 00:56:21.260
and then,
735
00:56:21.744 --> 00:56:30.244
you know, like, a couple months into that, you get some massive FOMO and then you then you practically go all in and then you continue to stack from there. Like, that's probably the more realistic scenario.
736
00:56:30.880 --> 00:56:34.660
So I I have I have a very strong opinion in regards to that question
737
00:56:35.120 --> 00:56:35.620
because,
738
00:56:36.480 --> 00:56:41.225
like, a lot of a lot of Bitcoiners have different approaches to that. But my advice
739
00:56:41.765 --> 00:56:47.785
to especially to new people, but pretty much to everyone, but especially to, like, complete no coin on newbies,
740
00:56:48.245 --> 00:56:48.745
to,
741
00:56:49.110 --> 00:56:49.930
you know, like,
742
00:56:50.230 --> 00:56:52.010
I don't know, my my sister or whatever,
743
00:56:52.390 --> 00:57:13.140
is just start stacking sets today. Just start now. Just don't think about it. Just please trust me, believe me, just start now, set it up. Even if you have no idea what you're doing, just find a way to to to get your feet wet and just the best thing is to do start stacking. The best thing is to do like, I I send people to auto DCA services straight away.
744
00:57:13.440 --> 00:57:14.180
Like and
745
00:57:14.765 --> 00:57:16.465
it it's the best thing because
746
00:57:17.565 --> 00:57:26.339
I think if you especially if you have a little bit of money. Let's say you you you're well off and you want to put in, like, 30 k or 50 k or something into Bitcoin.
747
00:57:27.359 --> 00:57:27.859
The
748
00:57:28.400 --> 00:57:30.020
the ways you can fuck up
749
00:57:30.400 --> 00:57:31.140
are like,
750
00:57:31.585 --> 00:57:37.525
there's there are a million ways you can fuck up. So it's really easy to to to mess something up to completely,
751
00:57:38.065 --> 00:57:43.900
like, completely get wrecked, like, to lose all your money, to, of of course, destroy your your privacy forever,
752
00:57:44.200 --> 00:57:47.494
to shoot yourself in the foot, to, you know, like,
753
00:57:48.595 --> 00:57:50.775
do just there there are a 1,000,000 ways
754
00:57:51.234 --> 00:57:56.190
a million things you can do wrong and and then nobody can help you. So even if you're technically
755
00:57:56.490 --> 00:57:56.990
proficient,
756
00:57:57.450 --> 00:58:00.430
this this can happen because if you're smart and if you're
757
00:58:00.970 --> 00:58:08.785
if you're, like, if you're a technical guy and if you're in IT or something, then you you might think it's a good idea to build your own, you know, like
758
00:58:09.325 --> 00:58:13.730
scheme set up, whatever security set up, and you might split your seed and and then encrypt something
759
00:58:24.595 --> 00:58:27.095
It like, if you can just start
760
00:58:27.795 --> 00:58:28.855
start auto DCA
761
00:58:29.315 --> 00:58:29.815
and
762
00:58:30.275 --> 00:58:36.799
learn as you go. The if if you mess up, you haven't lost much. You know, as I said, just give up a bad habit,
763
00:58:37.099 --> 00:58:46.555
like quit smoking and and put put the money you would usually spend for cigarettes, in into DCA. And and just learn as you go and upgrade as you as you need. Like, upgrade
764
00:58:46.855 --> 00:58:50.920
upgrade your your setup, upgrade your security, upgrade your best practices,
765
00:58:52.099 --> 00:58:53.640
then start to
766
00:58:54.099 --> 00:59:02.815
get into running notes, for example, get a hardware wallet, stuff like that. And you you cannot you cannot learn everything at at once. And I also think you cannot do everything
767
00:59:03.595 --> 00:59:06.494
right at once. Of course, you know, like, that's for
768
00:59:06.890 --> 00:59:08.910
that's for individuals. That's for, like,
769
00:59:09.690 --> 00:59:16.485
people that want to learn about Bitcoin, want to get some exposure and so on. The story is different if if you're a company and and you you just
770
00:59:16.965 --> 00:59:19.705
do everything custodial and you're just like, you know, let's
771
00:59:20.005 --> 00:59:22.105
allocate 20,000,000 to Bitcoin and
772
00:59:22.725 --> 00:59:39.454
someone will take care of it. But, you know, like, that's that's not really Bitcoin. You're not you're actually not holding Bitcoin. And I I I think I think you can't go wrong with that approach. And as you go as you become more comfortable, you can think of hitting a goal earlier. And I think it's also important to understand that
773
00:59:39.994 --> 00:59:46.590
FOMO is just horrible. Like, if you think now is the only time to get in, that's that's just just take a step back and
774
00:59:47.130 --> 01:00:02.095
and take a deep breath. And if if you're not calm, then you're bound to make mistakes. That's just if if you're if you're just following in and you just you you have to get in now, you're bound to mess something up. And so my advice is is just start small, start start DCA ing, and
775
01:00:03.660 --> 01:00:04.800
just, you know,
776
01:00:05.340 --> 01:00:13.565
try try to also understand what you're going and take it take it step by step. And and and a second thing I want to point out is I saw a couple of people and,
777
01:00:14.045 --> 01:00:15.025
I also
778
01:00:15.484 --> 01:00:19.025
in some sense know a little bit from experience. If you go
779
01:00:20.040 --> 01:00:21.740
too much all in, so to speak,
780
01:00:22.119 --> 01:00:26.859
it's very easy to end up in a in a impossible situation. You know, like,
781
01:00:27.160 --> 01:00:54.505
let's say, oh, yeah. New bull market isn't coming. I'm gonna go all in, and then I'm up 200%, and now I'm gonna quit my job and do whatever. And And then the market tanks, and you're down 90%, and you're forced to sell at the very bottom because you have to eat. That's not a good situation to be in. So just try to be smart about it. That's why the stay humble part is super important because none of us are gonna be humble. It's so like, when this thing goes crazy, when Bitcoin hits open water and just going fucking insane,
782
01:00:55.510 --> 01:00:58.490
It is really fucking difficult to stay humble.
783
01:00:58.790 --> 01:01:00.330
And when the price is collapsing
784
01:01:00.790 --> 01:01:02.730
and, you know, you're you're in a bear cycle,
785
01:01:03.705 --> 01:01:09.485
and everyone's saying Bitcoin's dead, it's really hard to stay humble and and be acquiring at that point. Right?
786
01:01:09.785 --> 01:01:16.980
And and so so you you constantly just need to be introspective of yourself, I think, just in life in general, but especially in Bitcoin.
787
01:01:17.680 --> 01:01:28.745
And I've said that before. Like, I think the best decision in my life was to get into Bitcoin, and that was not really a decision. It was kind of like Bitcoin ate me alive. But the second like, the best decision in my Bitcoin life
788
01:01:29.150 --> 01:01:33.490
was just just don't think about it. Stop looking at price charts and everything and just do Auto DCA.
789
01:01:34.190 --> 01:01:50.690
Like, it's it's pure Bitcoin, San. It's I can't recommend it enough. I just It's the best thing ever. Like, I never look at just stop looking at fucking charts. Stop looking at the price even. Like, my price indicator is is just memes, you know. Like, I talk about this. Let's talk about this for a second. Right? So auto DCA
790
01:01:50.990 --> 01:01:56.855
auto stacking, you know, fuck DCA. DCA is what boomers do. We're we're we're auto stackers. Okay? Yeah.
791
01:01:58.194 --> 01:01:59.095
Auto stacking
792
01:01:59.954 --> 01:02:00.434
is is
793
01:02:01.410 --> 01:02:07.830
if you if you're working a fiat job if you're working a fiat job and you're getting your fiat paycheck into your fiat bank account,
794
01:02:08.610 --> 01:02:14.345
you can convert a portion of that into Bitcoin, into Sats on a daily, weekly, or monthly basis.
795
01:02:16.165 --> 01:02:23.589
And, this is basic this is what I've been doing this whole cycle because it just didn't really it didn't really exist as an option earlier. Yeah.
796
01:02:24.609 --> 01:02:35.865
And it just completely takes you you you pick your percentage. Right? I guess this is, like, the way people should look at it. Right? Like, I guess, you subtract your take home versus your expenses, and then you have this cushion area.
797
01:02:36.210 --> 01:02:41.190
Right? And you decide what percent of that you're gonna contribute. Right? And I I personally like daily,
798
01:02:41.650 --> 01:02:53.230
but let's be honest. Like, if if it's a smaller amount, you're gonna pay a higher percentage in fees. So it kinda makes sense to do weekly, but daily just feels productive at as fuck. Like, it's amazing waking up in the morning and just being like, oh, I have more sets.
799
01:02:54.750 --> 01:02:55.570
Yeah. Absolutely.
800
01:02:56.350 --> 01:03:02.190
And That brings in, like, a distinction that that that I think is worth making here of,
801
01:03:03.525 --> 01:03:09.225
I think that's totally the approach for when you already have a good exposure to to Bitcoin.
802
01:03:09.605 --> 01:03:12.025
But for somebody, like, with 0 exposure,
803
01:03:12.440 --> 01:03:14.300
who has significant net worth,
804
01:03:15.400 --> 01:03:19.900
I think there's a there's an upfront period where they need to be either stacking aggressively
805
01:03:21.525 --> 01:03:30.505
or do some sort of lump sum to get off 0. But like, Matt, as you said before, it's totally true that it's so hard to here's Matt.
806
01:03:30.940 --> 01:03:31.760
So hard to,
807
01:03:32.340 --> 01:03:32.840
like,
808
01:03:33.420 --> 01:03:34.560
to commit to that.
809
01:03:34.940 --> 01:03:52.569
It's easier if it's, you know, just But that's the problem. Yeah. The problem is they don't have the balls to fucking do it, and they don't they haven't played around with Bitcoin yet, so they they they're not even in a comfortable position of of controlling their own keys and and holding their Bitcoin. And as far as I'm concerned, if you're not holding your own Bitcoin, you're not actually you haven't bought any Bitcoin yet.
810
01:03:53.245 --> 01:03:59.905
Yeah. And I I think it's it's it's you need to be careful about buying a lump sum before you really understand the asset and have used it.
811
01:04:00.365 --> 01:04:01.505
At the same time,
812
01:04:02.210 --> 01:04:03.190
we are in
813
01:04:03.809 --> 01:04:04.630
a historical
814
01:04:05.569 --> 01:04:14.375
cycle where we've had these historical cycles that look relatively similar every fucking time. And what happens is when we breach these all time highs after having
815
01:04:14.675 --> 01:04:16.455
and you go into open water Bitcoin,
816
01:04:16.915 --> 01:04:23.720
we tend to have massive upside. And even when it corrects back down, you don't get near that all that previous all time high level. Right?
817
01:04:24.020 --> 01:04:32.125
So there there's something to be said here about in this specific time trying to get aggressively off 0 if you haven't already.
818
01:04:32.505 --> 01:04:41.859
But I mean, really the ideal is to not be in this fucking situation. Like if you have no sats right now, what the fuck did you do over these last couple of years? Like, what the fuck was going on there?
819
01:04:42.160 --> 01:04:43.920
The thing I'm seeing with my,
820
01:04:44.559 --> 01:04:47.575
my MBA friends is that they have 0%
821
01:04:48.035 --> 01:04:48.535
Bitcoin
822
01:04:49.155 --> 01:04:49.655
and
823
01:04:50.035 --> 01:04:57.310
their instinct is to to dip a toe and wait a year, you know, see how it performs for a year. But if you do that, then
824
01:04:57.610 --> 01:04:59.950
you miss out on what's happening, what's coming.
825
01:05:00.890 --> 01:05:01.390
And
826
01:05:02.815 --> 01:05:04.835
this sort of happened for me is like,
827
01:05:06.095 --> 01:05:10.355
it's hard for me to to move the needle that much more on this app that I have,
828
01:05:11.660 --> 01:05:14.800
versus like if I had just bought a little bit more upfront.
829
01:05:16.380 --> 01:05:23.365
Because as you know, when you're in for a cycle then it 10 x is 10 x harder to stack the same amount of sats.
830
01:05:23.905 --> 01:05:26.325
So I think dipping a toe can be a,
831
01:05:27.790 --> 01:05:29.410
can be the wrong, like,
832
01:05:29.950 --> 01:05:30.450
instinct
833
01:05:31.550 --> 01:05:34.290
because of the, like, time sensitivity of Bitcoin
834
01:05:34.755 --> 01:05:37.575
when it starts to run when it's in price discovery here.
835
01:05:39.395 --> 01:05:43.015
Yeah. But I think that's just always true and will always be. Like,
836
01:05:43.880 --> 01:05:50.940
you will never be able to move the needle of your past purchases. If you assume out enough, it's gonna be an exponential
837
01:05:51.265 --> 01:05:52.724
trend all the way until
838
01:05:53.105 --> 01:06:00.880
everything is said and done. So that's just that's just the nature of this game. That's just the way it's going to be. And I I understand I I understand,
839
01:06:01.820 --> 01:06:06.560
yeah, what I would call the the Robert Breedlove approach because he he has been,
840
01:06:07.125 --> 01:06:09.865
outlining that quite well in terms of if you have
841
01:06:10.245 --> 01:06:19.869
enough cash on the side by lump sum and DCA later, so to speak. But, again, I think it's it it it also it has its own risks because you you want to time your entry.
842
01:06:20.170 --> 01:06:22.655
That that the larger your sum, the the
843
01:06:22.975 --> 01:06:25.635
the more inclined you are to trade,
844
01:06:25.935 --> 01:06:26.435
like,
845
01:06:26.735 --> 01:06:37.340
cycles to Yeah. And then the price drops the price drops 5 k or something, and you freak the fuck out. Let me just tell you, all of that is bullshit. Like, just if you if you have a lot of money,
846
01:06:37.640 --> 01:06:45.775
just take that money and and do do auto DCA with that as well. Like like, let's say let's say you have 30 k. Okay. Then just pick any month
847
01:06:46.395 --> 01:07:07.060
and put in a 1,000 like, put in 1 k every day. Then then then your whole stash is done. And if you still have a a fiat job, and you can you can I don't know? You can't afford to put in 25% of your paycheck, Just do that and leave your life as normal and never look at the price chart again. And just do that until 2029, and you can thank thank me later. And that's just the cheat code. And if you don't believe me, then just
848
01:07:07.620 --> 01:07:12.040
have a question for it. Yeah. Exactly. No. Like, yeah, you can you can
849
01:07:12.580 --> 01:07:16.760
that's what people don't realize. Like, you could flex your stack, like, the amount you stack.
850
01:07:17.285 --> 01:07:23.704
You can in the beginning, you can do a higher amount while you buy when you buy in your original position, and then you can lower it over time.
851
01:07:24.460 --> 01:07:28.960
So we have a couple of questions in the comments that I I I wanna hit here.
852
01:07:29.740 --> 01:07:30.720
First of all,
853
01:07:32.095 --> 01:07:35.234
someone said there's no auto stacking option in Europe.
854
01:07:36.095 --> 01:07:39.875
Gigi is the European. I know Get Better used to exist. It doesn't anymore.
855
01:07:40.500 --> 01:07:42.280
I'm an advisor for Bottlepay
856
01:07:42.580 --> 01:07:44.200
with a small equity stake,
857
01:07:44.580 --> 01:07:50.525
and they're about they're, like, in the testing phase right now. They're about to hit the app store with their own,
858
01:07:51.464 --> 01:07:52.605
Auto Stack service.
859
01:07:52.984 --> 01:07:59.770
And I believe Stripe is about to launch in Europe. So those are 2 options. Gigi, do you have another option for anyone that's trying to Auto Stack in Europe?
860
01:08:00.250 --> 01:08:03.710
Yeah. There are actually 3 that I'm aware of, and there might be more even.
861
01:08:04.090 --> 01:08:04.590
Like,
862
01:08:05.610 --> 01:08:07.150
the one that I recommend
863
01:08:07.525 --> 01:08:09.465
from time to time is Relay.
864
01:08:09.845 --> 01:08:10.985
They're Swiss based.
865
01:08:11.285 --> 01:08:12.825
You have to check with your bank.
866
01:08:13.205 --> 01:08:13.705
Sometimes,
867
01:08:14.965 --> 01:08:16.025
like, ridiculous
868
01:08:16.510 --> 01:08:18.130
transfer fees occur because you're,
869
01:08:18.990 --> 01:08:21.010
yeah, you're transferring from
870
01:08:22.030 --> 01:08:22.930
European Union,
871
01:08:24.270 --> 01:08:25.490
area to Switzerland.
872
01:08:26.245 --> 01:08:26.745
And,
873
01:08:27.765 --> 01:08:29.705
that's good. Like, that's proper DCA.
874
01:08:30.085 --> 01:08:33.385
There's, like I I would say they are good people. They they have a horrible
875
01:08:33.765 --> 01:08:34.825
shit kind of PhD
876
01:08:35.530 --> 01:08:36.490
adviser on board. But,
877
01:08:38.490 --> 01:08:47.135
they said on Twitter that they will be always Bitcoin only, and so far that has been true. So, that's good. There is also there's XSets.
878
01:08:47.915 --> 01:08:52.335
I haven't used it myself yet, but that looks okay ish as well. It's rather new.
879
01:08:52.820 --> 01:08:54.600
There are some exchanges that do DCA.
880
01:08:54.980 --> 01:08:57.160
There is one in Austria that's called Bitpanda.
881
01:08:57.540 --> 01:09:00.040
I think it's available in Europe, in general,
882
01:09:00.345 --> 01:09:12.880
and you can set your auto DCA savings plan there as well. And, what I personally would recommend if you have a Kraken account, like, the the the thing with DCA is it's always up to now, it's still always bound to KYC.
883
01:09:13.420 --> 01:09:13.920
And,
884
01:09:14.300 --> 01:09:24.855
that's just something I think this problem will be solved somehow in the future, but for now, you you will have to go through KYC. But the problem is solved by your boss paying you under the table in fucking sats.
885
01:09:25.610 --> 01:09:29.929
Yeah. Of course. Like, that's that's the ideal, but but both people aren't there yet. Relay has,
886
01:09:30.409 --> 01:09:33.230
same as Bitr, like, Lite KYC. They only have
887
01:09:34.245 --> 01:09:35.225
they only have,
888
01:09:35.765 --> 01:09:43.680
your bank information. You don't have to actually, you know, like, give up a a stool sample and scan in your passport and and stuff like that. And there is also,
889
01:09:44.220 --> 01:09:57.985
what I would recommend if you have if you have an account by, on cracking already and you have a recipe blitz, then the best thing to do is install the recipe blitz cracking stacking sets plug in. And that's that was written by a friend of mine, Dennis Ryman.
890
01:09:58.460 --> 01:09:58.780
And,
891
01:09:59.340 --> 01:10:05.365
it it basically is just a cron job that uses the cracking API to stack for you. So you top up your cracking account
892
01:10:06.965 --> 01:10:15.510
and that you just have some field in your cracking account, and it just takes from there. And it it's it just stacks, like, every minute if you want to. So all all of those options are awesome. And,
893
01:10:16.050 --> 01:10:19.270
so you can do weekly, daily, and even, like, every minute,
894
01:10:19.890 --> 01:10:22.470
and can DCA in Europe, like, no no problem.
895
01:10:22.805 --> 01:10:27.065
And someone pointed out in the chat, maybe maybe it's good to hit on that as well. That's,
896
01:10:27.605 --> 01:10:28.905
everyone should go bisk.
897
01:10:29.285 --> 01:10:37.040
And I I I agree with the sentiment, and it would be great. I think we will have that at some point in the future, just like, you know, we had lightning was
898
01:10:37.685 --> 01:10:41.385
very hard to use in a noncustodial way, and now it isn't. And,
899
01:10:41.765 --> 01:10:46.105
mixing also, you know, like, now now we've joined market and everything goes into this
900
01:10:47.600 --> 01:10:49.620
better UX, non custodial
901
01:10:50.080 --> 01:10:55.575
direction. And I I I don't think there is a reason why you can't have very similar to toy market,
902
01:10:56.055 --> 01:11:01.790
like a bot or something that uses bisques and you you basically do auto DCA operations and you you just
903
01:11:02.510 --> 01:11:04.610
take care of what needs to be done and
904
01:11:05.150 --> 01:11:10.605
and power through a queue to just authorize payments or whatever. I I think that can come in the future, but,
905
01:11:11.085 --> 01:11:12.305
for now it's just,
906
01:11:13.645 --> 01:11:22.280
yeah, not possible to do. But I would what I would like to stress to everyone who's listening to this is the psychological benefits of auto DCA cannot be overstated.
907
01:11:22.740 --> 01:11:28.440
Like, just the difference between hitting a button and forcing yourself to stand up and buy daily or biweekly,
908
01:11:29.025 --> 01:11:40.600
And, you know, then price shoots up like 50%. Are you gonna do your weekly buy? No. Of course, you're not because you're a human being and you're like, oh, no. Now the price is too high. I'm gonna wait 2 days and so on and so forth. Like, it cannot be overstated how how great psychologically
909
01:11:41.139 --> 01:11:50.375
Auto DCA is. And I think still most Bitcoiners miss that because most, like, there's so many people that just don't auto DCA yet. And once you switch, I think there's just no going back.
910
01:11:51.074 --> 01:11:52.614
So yeah. I mean,
911
01:11:53.270 --> 01:11:55.590
fuck yes. Thank you, Gigi. That was a great,
912
01:11:56.150 --> 01:11:59.289
really great insight there. I agree with pretty much everything you said.
913
01:11:59.670 --> 01:12:00.550
I think what what
914
01:12:01.205 --> 01:12:06.105
a key thing here is, like so KYC is this idea is that they take all this personal information for you.
915
01:12:06.725 --> 01:12:10.810
They they take it's it's when they take your ID and they take your mailing address
916
01:12:11.210 --> 01:12:15.470
and, maybe passport information. All this different information, they take it from you,
917
01:12:15.930 --> 01:12:29.079
and they report it to their local regulators and they store it and they tie that to all your Bitcoin addresses. And this is very dangerous, especially dangerous if you're not using it with CoinJoin. And it's a trusted relationship. It's a trusted relationship where where you're trusting that organization
918
01:12:29.619 --> 01:12:33.079
with your private information. You're trusting anyone that they're sharing it with.
919
01:12:33.940 --> 01:12:35.000
All that said,
920
01:12:35.525 --> 01:12:36.665
I personally
921
01:12:37.125 --> 01:12:39.865
strongly believe that everyone should avoid KYC services
922
01:12:40.325 --> 01:12:43.305
except the one time where I think
923
01:12:43.700 --> 01:12:48.200
it's tolerable and it's it's it's, you know, it's not ideal. Obviously, it's not ideal
924
01:12:48.660 --> 01:12:52.840
is if you're if you're converting your KYC paycheck into Bitcoin automatically.
925
01:12:53.255 --> 01:12:57.034
And that's because it's already KYC'd. It's sitting in your KYC bank account already.
926
01:12:57.415 --> 01:13:11.815
And it it might as well just go through another KYC service, a single KYC service that you trust the most. You just leave it to a single one, and it just comes into Bitcoin and then you immediately coin join. And I think that that's like a a decent enough trade off balance there.
927
01:13:12.275 --> 01:13:14.454
And then on top of that, you could have your separate,
928
01:13:15.074 --> 01:13:16.375
KYC free stack,
929
01:13:16.840 --> 01:13:18.140
that you stack through bisque.
930
01:13:18.920 --> 01:13:22.460
And just because I've I fucking love the project, I just wanna do,
931
01:13:23.160 --> 01:13:25.260
I just wanna show a quick video on bisque,
932
01:13:25.825 --> 01:13:28.165
before we jump back into the discussion. So enjoy.
933
01:13:29.985 --> 01:13:32.245
There are many places to buy Bitcoin.
934
01:13:32.960 --> 01:13:34.980
They collect your personal information
935
01:13:35.760 --> 01:13:37.620
and jeopardize your privacy.
936
01:13:39.200 --> 01:13:41.780
KYC is the illicit activity.
937
01:13:43.825 --> 01:13:45.125
This is open source.
938
01:13:45.505 --> 01:13:47.605
It does not collect user data.
939
01:13:48.065 --> 01:13:49.845
You keep your private keys,
940
01:13:50.465 --> 01:13:55.929
create or take off to trade peer to peer, and keep your Bitcoin private and secure.
941
01:14:00.614 --> 01:14:02.235
So that's best. Check it out.
942
01:14:03.335 --> 01:14:05.895
I want to point out one one thing,
943
01:14:07.400 --> 01:14:12.540
to defend my position that I think that all of that will come, like, non k y c, all the stacking and stuff like that.
944
01:14:12.920 --> 01:14:15.659
Just keep in mind what what's just said in this video
945
01:14:16.605 --> 01:14:30.190
is more profound than it seems because they said that Biscuit is open source. And the the thing about open source, free and open source software is it doesn't die, it doesn't go away. That's also why Bitcoin just doesn't die and and won't go away. Bisk that that like,
946
01:14:30.650 --> 01:14:32.590
what do you have to understand is that Bisk
947
01:14:33.165 --> 01:14:48.350
will outlive every single company that you can mention in the Bitcoin space right now. BISK will outlive Coinbase. It will out it it will just outlive all of it. That's that's why open source is winning, and that's why free software is winning. And so the sooner you understand that, the the sooner you also realize that that
948
01:14:49.035 --> 01:15:05.880
the way forward is with services like that. And the more, like, exposure to you get to something like that early, it's like, you know, I'm getting into Linux in in the nineties or or something like that, you know. Like Linux is still around and most operating systems and and other things are just not around. You know, it's just it's just the way
949
01:15:06.585 --> 01:15:11.405
that that this kind of these kind of things work. So that's something to keep in mind.
950
01:15:14.000 --> 01:15:19.220
And, yeah, sorry for the philosophical rant. I'm just, you know, the whiskey is talking. It's not me.
951
01:15:22.355 --> 01:15:24.855
Crow, what's your opinion? I feel like we're overpowering you.
952
01:15:25.315 --> 01:15:28.935
You know, I I have less strong feelings about
953
01:15:30.260 --> 01:15:34.260
about KYC. I I sort of, you know, I I view it as,
954
01:15:37.755 --> 01:15:40.495
basically inevitable part of reaching
955
01:15:40.955 --> 01:15:41.615
the mainstream.
956
01:15:43.675 --> 01:15:46.255
But Gigi's point here about, like, you know,
957
01:15:46.960 --> 01:15:47.780
open source,
958
01:15:49.199 --> 01:15:49.699
wins
959
01:15:50.320 --> 01:15:52.179
that certainly has been bearing out.
960
01:15:52.639 --> 01:15:53.139
And
961
01:15:53.440 --> 01:15:56.340
I I hope that it goes in that direction. And,
962
01:15:56.665 --> 01:15:57.165
like,
963
01:15:57.784 --> 01:15:59.704
I I frankly haven't used,
964
01:16:00.264 --> 01:16:03.244
non k y c services to acquire Bitcoin,
965
01:16:03.900 --> 01:16:07.280
because it's intimidating to me. I'm like, I'm not that technical of a person.
966
01:16:07.900 --> 01:16:11.200
It's kind of a miracle that I'm in bitcoin at this point, this early
967
01:16:11.545 --> 01:16:12.525
as it is because,
968
01:16:13.304 --> 01:16:15.085
I I, you know, I come at it from
969
01:16:15.465 --> 01:16:17.644
more of a a business numbers,
970
01:16:18.184 --> 01:16:19.244
big picture thinking,
971
01:16:20.105 --> 01:16:21.005
point of view
972
01:16:21.510 --> 01:16:24.250
and have less mastery of the technical side.
973
01:16:25.190 --> 01:16:29.210
So I haven't used that stuff and I and I don't really know how much I'm missing
974
01:16:30.075 --> 01:16:31.375
in terms of it's important.
975
01:16:32.555 --> 01:16:37.615
But I would like to use it because everybody else seems to think it's so important, but it's too intimidating
976
01:16:38.155 --> 01:16:42.210
for me still. So if this, and other open source things,
977
01:16:42.990 --> 01:16:46.130
you know, continue to improve and build on previous open source
978
01:16:47.005 --> 01:16:47.505
iterations,
979
01:16:48.284 --> 01:16:49.505
then that sounds great.
980
01:16:53.485 --> 01:16:54.784
Yeah. I I think,
981
01:16:55.540 --> 01:16:57.480
what you said about DCA being inevitable
982
01:16:57.860 --> 01:16:59.560
is very, very true. Because,
983
01:17:01.380 --> 01:17:05.994
if we continue to be right about these things, Bitcoin will just continue on its trajectory.
984
01:17:06.455 --> 01:17:19.280
And, it doesn't even matter if, like, this is the last cycle or, like, some, crazy macro guys are talking about or if it just continues to go up and down and up and down, and we have this bullet bear It's not a lot of cycle. Yeah. No. I don't think it is.
985
01:17:20.114 --> 01:17:28.695
It's it's so ridiculous that, you know, like, nobody was taking me seriously one and a half years ago when I was saying, like, you know, 2029, maybe, hyperbitcoinization,
986
01:17:29.074 --> 01:17:46.245
stuff like that. And now I'm the bearish now I'm the bearish one that decides so annoying. They, like, out bull us. You know? It's, like, used to be profound that we could be, like, Bitcoin's designed to pump forever, and now, like, fucking Scott Meager is saying the same exact fucking thing. And and my dad's like, oh, well, Scott has a point. You know? It's hyperbitcoinization
987
01:17:46.705 --> 01:17:53.170
tomorrow. You know? But it's I think you said this as well, Matt. It's like, if if you if you're if you're living through your first, proper,
988
01:17:53.949 --> 01:18:15.145
bull cycle, then it feels like it's gonna be hyper Bitcoinization now. I think almost every Bitcoin Yeah. It feels like it has a cycle. It's going to feel like it this cycle at some point. We just, I haven't hit my personal point where I think that yet. But I know at some point, I'm gonna be like hybrid Bitcoinization is upon us. This is the last cycle, and then we will probably dump shortly after that.
989
01:18:16.725 --> 01:18:17.225
Yeah.
990
01:18:18.165 --> 01:18:23.530
And and that's just a that's a function of just capturing the next incremental slice of the adoption curve,
991
01:18:24.070 --> 01:18:26.650
and it feels infinite at that point in time.
992
01:18:27.565 --> 01:18:30.065
But you've only just captured, you know, the next
993
01:18:30.525 --> 01:18:35.265
set of people that are potentially open to the idea of Bitcoin
994
01:18:35.920 --> 01:18:36.420
and
995
01:18:37.360 --> 01:18:46.555
are, you know, interested enough that the FOMO pulls them in for that cycle. And then, you know, 4 years later, you capture the next incremental size and so on.
996
01:18:48.775 --> 01:18:53.440
Yeah. Absolutely. And I I think, you know, in in terms of of of DCA,
997
01:18:54.220 --> 01:19:14.000
we are still at a point where most of the world is forced to use fiat. And if you're forced to use fiat and forced to earn fiat, I mean, in a way, like, you're forced to earn fiat by society. Most people won't be pay you in sets. It it's just too complicated, too much of a hassle. There are some some people like Max Hollebrand for example and and others, that,
998
01:19:14.540 --> 01:19:15.360
live on a
999
01:19:15.660 --> 01:19:16.160
pure
1000
01:19:16.505 --> 01:19:25.245
Bitcoin standard and just like earn sets and nothing else pretty much and and spend sets and so on. But that's just, you know, like, that's that's the minority of the minority.
1001
01:19:26.010 --> 01:19:26.830
And I think,
1002
01:19:27.450 --> 01:19:30.990
DCA will be with us all throughout this process of Bitcoinization.
1003
01:19:31.450 --> 01:19:32.090
And just
1004
01:19:32.570 --> 01:19:59.735
if you if you're early and you you understand Bitcoin early, then you will save in sets because sets are the best savings technology. And you're still earning in fiat, and then you're converting a certain percentage to sets, and that's just your savings vehicle. What I think will be interesting is we will see reverse DCA as well. I think we will definitely see that. I I think we saw that already. Bitcoin is doing that. That Bitcoin just pumped so hard and you were you managed to save so many sets that you're just like, okay. I'm I'm set.
1005
01:20:00.594 --> 01:20:15.094
And I'm just I'm gonna buy a nice house or a small island or a boat or what have you, and I'm just Bitcoin is gonna pay my allowance. So you basically reverse DCA out of it because maybe you're you're renting a place not gonna happen. Some island. You're wrong, Gigi. That's a poor cake.
1006
01:20:15.795 --> 01:20:23.120
You think so? I think you will be forced I I I I think you will be forced to use fiat for a long time. No. No. No. No. Wrong.
1007
01:20:23.580 --> 01:20:29.935
So you think everyone you everyone will move to a a citadel island and it would just be circular,
1008
01:20:30.475 --> 01:20:35.375
economy from now on? I think we're gonna move to Sats being the preferred method of
1009
01:20:36.070 --> 01:20:45.449
of receiving payment quicker than anyone can really fathom. I mean, I I think as an American, you I I I witnessed this as a child. I mean, I would go to other countries,
1010
01:20:45.975 --> 01:20:47.335
and we kind of didn't, you know
1011
01:20:47.975 --> 01:20:59.100
if you don't wanna be a if you don't wanna be a dick, you should you should probably convert your money ahead of time. But, if you're American and you're traveling, it's not as as much the case now, especially not in Europe. You used to be able to just,
1012
01:20:59.815 --> 01:21:15.180
if you pulled out a greenback, it was preferable. You almost would get a better price, than if if you paid them in their local currency. You could get a better conversion rate if you just paid directly in that in that better money. And Bitcoin is is obviously the better money.
1013
01:21:15.880 --> 01:21:24.345
So how long till it takes for for the majority to realize that? And I think there's a turning point here where where it's it's not it's not nearly as long as people think it is.
1014
01:21:24.725 --> 01:21:29.550
So maybe, like, if if you're a high time preference whore and you're you're trying to,
1015
01:21:30.270 --> 01:21:36.035
get out get out of sats in the next 5 years, then then maybe okay, then there's some room for that. But I think,
1016
01:21:36.755 --> 01:21:39.895
past that, like, you're just gonna be paying for things in SaaS, baby.
1017
01:21:41.635 --> 01:21:49.230
I just love that you called me a high time preference whore. I said if you were to be 1 I said if you were to be 1, it was it was not a
1018
01:21:49.690 --> 01:21:50.670
a direct statement.
1019
01:21:51.565 --> 01:21:58.065
I mean, I agree. Like, I think I think it can happen way quicker than most people think. And I I I like the I like the,
1020
01:21:59.520 --> 01:22:03.940
American perspective of, you know, like everyone would just pay, take your dollars because
1021
01:22:04.240 --> 01:22:06.020
just because that's how the world works,
1022
01:22:06.320 --> 01:22:08.100
as a poor European
1023
01:22:08.545 --> 01:22:09.045
pleb
1024
01:22:09.985 --> 01:22:15.445
that still remembers, you know, like, shit coins like the Italian lira, man. That's I don't I don't know that.
1025
01:22:16.440 --> 01:22:17.260
It's just
1026
01:22:18.040 --> 01:22:27.555
I I I don't know good money. I didn't grow up with good money. So, yeah, you might be right. I think I think you will be very right in cyberspace. I think we see that already. You know? Like, we see projects,
1027
01:22:28.175 --> 01:22:34.159
like Citadel 21, for example. They they have a circular economy already. Like, everyone who who did something for them,
1028
01:22:34.560 --> 01:22:59.805
got paid in Sats, like those people that that got paid and they only sell their stuff for Sats. We will see that in the Bitcoin space, like, I I think we will we will see that continue, and I think we will that will spread out quickly. Like, if you if you're selling digital things, digital goods, and or, like, if for god's sakes, like, if if you're a cam girl or a gamer or something, someone who just takes tips and and and so on, I think the centralized platforms because of censorship will die, and I think that,
1029
01:23:00.285 --> 01:23:07.030
people will just take sets directly. So The the Huddl Deepa, welcome to what American exceptionalism feels like, Gigi.
1030
01:23:07.410 --> 01:23:07.910
Awesome.
1031
01:23:09.010 --> 01:23:10.950
We're on the right side this time, Gigi.
1032
01:23:14.935 --> 01:23:26.770
So I agree with everything you guys are saying, but I think it's just so much earlier. Like, it I think from the vantage point of a Bitcoin, it doesn't feel that early, but it's so much earlier than than we realized because
1033
01:23:28.270 --> 01:23:31.795
so, like, I wanna I wanna pull Matt and Gigi,
1034
01:23:33.614 --> 01:23:35.955
how many Bitcoin maximalists or
1035
01:23:36.735 --> 01:23:38.675
put a different way, how many people
1036
01:23:39.030 --> 01:23:39.850
in the world,
1037
01:23:41.430 --> 01:23:47.450
view Bitcoin as their unit of account, like, today? How many do you think we're at? There's, like, dozens of us.
1038
01:23:48.705 --> 01:23:51.364
Dozens. There's a nice nice gift.
1039
01:23:52.864 --> 01:23:54.804
You know, I get I get a little bit ashamed,
1040
01:23:56.690 --> 01:24:00.389
or self conscious when I when I get particularly drunk on some of these podcasts.
1041
01:24:01.409 --> 01:24:02.469
But I I think
1042
01:24:03.515 --> 01:24:11.695
I, you know, I think that's where it really shows if if if if Sats are unit of count or not. If you can just if you can just drunkenly,
1043
01:24:13.060 --> 01:24:19.560
rattle off stats conversions and that, like, that's where you default to. Like, that that that's where unit of count gets stable,
1044
01:24:20.865 --> 01:24:30.780
in the minds of of many is is when they're when they're drunken and about, and, that's what they're thinking in. My problem is that for the longest time, like, even with the drop down to,
1045
01:24:31.480 --> 01:24:44.605
8 the 3.8 k or what it was, my anchor was 10 k. And I'm afraid my anchor for the set conversion will remain 10 k until we hit the 100 k. So I'm still at 10 k. So that's my that's my quick set conversion.
1046
01:24:45.000 --> 01:24:48.380
My anchors are like, they move at the hard numbers. So
1047
01:24:48.760 --> 01:24:50.380
so so, actually, there's a
1048
01:24:51.000 --> 01:24:54.555
we were we did a special for I did a special with Bitcoin Magazine,
1049
01:24:55.335 --> 01:24:57.115
for proof of keys for Bitcoin's,
1050
01:24:57.655 --> 01:24:58.635
12th birthday.
1051
01:24:59.335 --> 01:25:00.315
And I'm interviewing
1052
01:25:00.695 --> 01:25:06.930
or I I was just really having a free flowing conversation with Wiz and Catan, and we passed 30 k for the first time ever.
1053
01:25:08.165 --> 01:25:22.290
And in that conversation, you can see it on the block clock, but I had no idea that it was that we had passed 30 k, but I was already rattling off my Sats conversions in that conversation based on 30 k. Like, I I once we hit, like, 26 k, I I moved up to 30.
1054
01:25:23.045 --> 01:25:33.960
You know, it's, like, you you have to you have to keep I move with the hard numbers because, I mean, otherwise like, the math is ridiculous. I mean, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna do it on anything less than a 10 k change.
1055
01:25:35.860 --> 01:25:41.080
Yeah. You know, like, that's that's a side effect, I guess, not looking at the price. It's just as long as
1056
01:25:42.685 --> 01:25:52.340
as long as my sats on their own do their little n g u and every day I have a a a small amount of sats more, then that's good. That's a good day, you know. And
1057
01:25:52.640 --> 01:25:59.300
my block clock only shows the block time because that's all that matters. As long as blocks are coming in, everything is sandy and sunny in cyberspace.
1058
01:25:59.995 --> 01:26:01.615
And we're now at 664-696.
1059
01:26:02.875 --> 01:26:03.695
There you go.
1060
01:26:04.475 --> 01:26:22.325
And so I think, you know, the set conversion. I think it will Bitcoin has to settle down a little bit for for that to work for more people and What is the point you need to settle down? The dollar is too volatile. The dollar should settle down in ZAT's terms. Yeah. The dollar should just go away, and then we can we can just stick with Sats.
1061
01:26:23.425 --> 01:26:28.005
Have you guys looked at the the the m one or m two chart recently?
1062
01:26:29.570 --> 01:26:31.430
The the number of dollars in circulation?
1063
01:26:32.210 --> 01:26:33.830
Yeah. It looks like the Weimar,
1064
01:26:34.370 --> 01:26:37.750
hyperinflation chart. Right? Yeah. That it's not.
1065
01:26:38.195 --> 01:26:40.375
It's like a hockey hockey stick chart.
1066
01:26:42.435 --> 01:26:42.755
Yeah.
1067
01:26:43.474 --> 01:26:47.820
I I think, you know, we're in for a wild ride, and I think 2021
1068
01:26:48.200 --> 01:26:51.020
will be a fun year for Bitcoiners and
1069
01:26:51.640 --> 01:26:54.219
a year full of pain for most
1070
01:26:54.835 --> 01:26:55.875
most people.
1071
01:26:57.315 --> 01:26:59.415
So, yeah, Bitcoiners and Contelionaires
1072
01:26:59.955 --> 01:27:03.910
will profit, I guess, and everyone else won't. So I think
1073
01:27:04.690 --> 01:27:06.310
it's it's very hard to
1074
01:27:06.850 --> 01:27:14.204
again, as Matt said as well, it's it's it's so hard to stay humble, but but I think I think just economically speaking in in the macro landscape and just,
1075
01:27:14.665 --> 01:27:15.724
with everything that
1076
01:27:17.180 --> 01:27:19.760
happened because of corona and lockdowns. I think
1077
01:27:20.140 --> 01:27:22.780
I think it's gonna be ugly, and I think, you know, it's
1078
01:27:23.900 --> 01:27:31.445
the the stuff that I'm struggling with the most is that I think we're still living in peacetime. And I I have the feeling that, you know, it just
1079
01:27:32.005 --> 01:27:32.825
up to now,
1080
01:27:33.460 --> 01:27:45.855
even with all the civil wars and and and other things, Bitcoin kinda had a somewhat, I would say, smooth ride in a way. I've you you know, like, there was not a full out on like full on war on Bitcoiners or on Bitcoin.
1081
01:27:46.155 --> 01:27:46.655
And
1082
01:27:47.755 --> 01:27:48.255
I'm
1083
01:27:48.635 --> 01:27:54.180
I think Seifedean has interesting opinions on that as well because he mentions that it might be, like, just
1084
01:27:54.640 --> 01:27:58.180
maybe there won't be any war coming and it would just be a gradual
1085
01:28:00.065 --> 01:28:16.995
a gradual opting out of field system and a gradual adoption of the Bitcoin standard, and that would be very beautiful in a way. But it's also hard to tell what kind of side effects that would bring because I would say the transition to the Internet, like, you know, the death of the newspapers and, of other traditional media and print media.
1086
01:28:17.855 --> 01:28:22.915
It kinda happened gradually, I I would say, but it wasn't without its side effects. So
1087
01:28:23.360 --> 01:28:32.900
what keeps me up at night sometimes is just thinking about potential side effects and also thinking about a potential, like, nation state attack kind of war on Bitcoin on on Bitcoin was coming.
1088
01:28:33.345 --> 01:28:36.965
But can we like, I mean, the the way we started this conversation was,
1089
01:28:37.745 --> 01:28:43.890
Crow asking how many people are pricing in SaaS, and I jokingly said dozens. But, like, let's be realistic, like, less than a1000.
1090
01:28:44.670 --> 01:28:50.415
Cool. Right? And, like, if if we're talking about it, how many Bitcoiners are running are using their own full node?
1091
01:28:51.615 --> 01:28:56.995
It's like max in the tens of thousands probably. Right? And we're talking about how many people are using CoinJoin,
1092
01:28:57.510 --> 01:29:01.370
Like, what? It's, like, probably in a similar range, maybe a little bit less than that.
1093
01:29:01.910 --> 01:29:05.130
Self custody. What are we at at self custody? Like, maybe a1000000?
1094
01:29:06.215 --> 01:29:06.715
2,000,000?
1095
01:29:07.255 --> 01:29:08.795
There are I think that addresses
1096
01:29:09.574 --> 01:29:10.074
with,
1097
01:29:10.855 --> 01:29:11.994
0.1 Bitcoin.
1098
01:29:13.160 --> 01:29:15.900
Right. And it's less than that. That's a that's a upper limit.
1099
01:29:16.280 --> 01:29:16.780
Mhmm.
1100
01:29:17.880 --> 01:29:18.380
Right.
1101
01:29:18.680 --> 01:29:23.304
So less than 3,000,000. Because, like, I have multiple addresses. People have multiple addresses.
1102
01:29:25.605 --> 01:29:28.664
Yeah. I mean, I I so for one of my,
1103
01:29:29.445 --> 01:29:36.570
tweet threads, I did this exercise of, like, what are what are we at in terms of progress of adoption through the s curve
1104
01:29:37.030 --> 01:29:50.680
for the different, like, levels of Bitcoin adoption, which is to say, like, you know, at first somebody might own $20 worth of Bitcoin and that counts by some metrics. You know, some people say like, oh, there's like a 150,000,000
1105
01:29:51.140 --> 01:30:03.845
people who own digital assets and that's really what they're capturing is people who have, like, plenty of money in it. And then there's, you know, people who have like a 1% hedge. There's people who have like a significant position of like 10 or 20%.
1106
01:30:04.610 --> 01:30:06.710
And then there's people who have like over 50%.
1107
01:30:07.329 --> 01:30:07.829
And
1108
01:30:08.610 --> 01:30:11.909
when I tried to like walk through the exercise of of what is that,
1109
01:30:12.385 --> 01:30:15.605
looks like a reasonable number for that final group,
1110
01:30:16.305 --> 01:30:20.325
I came up with like a at most and it's probably well
1111
01:30:20.760 --> 01:30:24.380
under this number, but I I came up with 250,000 people
1112
01:30:24.680 --> 01:30:29.740
have reached the point where the majority of their money is in Bitcoin, which means that we're at, like,
1113
01:30:30.485 --> 01:30:30.985
0.01%
1114
01:30:32.165 --> 01:30:32.665
penetration
1115
01:30:33.525 --> 01:30:36.025
of of the eventual total adoption.
1116
01:30:36.485 --> 01:30:40.239
It's so early that it's impossible for me to to to imagine
1117
01:30:41.020 --> 01:30:43.040
everyone else figuring it out
1118
01:30:43.659 --> 01:30:45.440
even in the next 10 years.
1119
01:30:48.035 --> 01:30:52.195
Yeah. I I I agree somewhat, but I think people are also
1120
01:30:52.995 --> 01:30:55.575
not everyone has to figure it out, you know? Like,
1121
01:30:56.330 --> 01:31:31.830
not everyone understands the Internet who is using the Internet and I'm you you also have to think in terms of infrastructure inversion. Like, there was a point in time, I I always call it the voice over IP moment, where most phones in the developed world switched to voice over IP and just are using the Internet underneath, but they still work the same way and look the same way. And I think the same will be true in Bitcoin as well. Like the Internet just gobbled everything up. It ate everything up exponentially that has to do with information. And I think Bitcoin will eat everything up that has to do with value and money and the the transfer of money, and settlement of money, and so on and so forth. And
1122
01:31:32.130 --> 01:31:42.414
I think Bitcoin's voice of IP moment is coming, and I think that will be a huge boost. I think the the whole the whole adoption s curve and if you're interested in that, SkyBridge
1123
01:31:42.715 --> 01:31:54.364
brought out a great report very recently. They have this adoption s curve in it as well. Which mooch the Mooches Fund? Scaramoochies Fund? Yeah. I think so. Yeah. Yeah. It was literally just a deck full of Bitcoin Twitter memes.
1124
01:31:54.745 --> 01:31:56.205
Yeah. It was. It's great.
1125
01:31:58.025 --> 01:32:08.840
It it's very accurate. Like, it's it has a it has a lot of distilled truth. My people are going to show up in Bitcoin and see opportunity and, you know, project themselves as
1126
01:32:09.275 --> 01:32:15.054
as experts. So that is that's what the MBAs will do. We're coming, and it's not gonna be very appreciated.
1127
01:32:17.650 --> 01:32:25.670
That's fine. That's fine. As long as they are shilling the corn, that's fine. You know? I'm I would love I'd love when they come in and pump my bags. You know? That's the right mentality.
1128
01:32:27.385 --> 01:32:30.845
And in in this report, they also have, like, this s curve analysis,
1129
01:32:31.465 --> 01:32:31.965
like,
1130
01:32:32.585 --> 01:32:33.965
potential adoption analysis.
1131
01:32:34.470 --> 01:32:34.970
And,
1132
01:32:35.510 --> 01:32:44.074
they I think they they said, and we see this s curve graphs all the time, and I think we're still before on most the stuff that I see, we're still before
1133
01:32:44.455 --> 01:32:47.594
the early adopters. Like, like, the early adopters started,
1134
01:32:47.975 --> 01:32:48.875
I don't know, 66.9%
1135
01:32:49.735 --> 01:32:54.250
or something. It's almost very first part of of the earliest group.
1136
01:32:54.870 --> 01:32:58.250
Yeah. So we're still innovator innovator stage. And
1137
01:32:58.725 --> 01:33:08.820
in the in the SkyBridge report, I think they only took the American market and they picked the number like 10%. Like, 10% of Americans in 2020 own Bitcoin somehow.
1138
01:33:09.520 --> 01:33:10.420
And so
1139
01:33:11.119 --> 01:33:13.619
what they what they see is that,
1140
01:33:14.159 --> 01:33:16.179
in 2029, which is my
1141
01:33:16.595 --> 01:33:18.114
hyperbitcoinization prediction data,
1142
01:33:18.755 --> 01:33:19.255
90%
1143
01:33:20.195 --> 01:33:48.420
of Americans will are are projected to own Bitcoin. And I think the voice of IP moment moment, like the infrastructure inversion, like the news came out I think yesterday or today in the morning or something that banks are now allowed to settle in Bitcoin and use use Bitcoin, like use open block blockchains for settlement. I think that was the the language used. And when that happens, the same thing that hap that happened with the telephones will happen. You know, like, everyone is still using their kind of cards and smartwatches and whatnot to pay and, just everything will work as normal.
1144
01:33:48.800 --> 01:34:14.145
But there will be a lot of demand for block space underneath just for settlement, and that will change everything. And and suddenly you have an insane bull market, and you have an insane s curve, you know, like you and this large adoption s curve is made up of smaller s curves, and those are the cycles that we see. And at at some point in time, it doesn't make sense anymore to measure these cycles in dollars. And that's, I think, when it makes sense to to speak of a breaking point of it, like, a hyperbitcoinization
1145
01:34:14.525 --> 01:34:15.025
point.
1146
01:34:16.820 --> 01:34:21.000
Good points. I just want to first of all, someone mentioned in the comments,
1147
01:34:21.540 --> 01:34:26.825
that we should just if you're a new Bitcoiner out there and you're using something like Robinhood or Revolut,
1148
01:34:27.525 --> 01:34:29.705
that doesn't allow you to withdraw your Bitcoin,
1149
01:34:30.405 --> 01:34:32.505
you should immediately use another platform.
1150
01:34:33.370 --> 01:34:38.590
That that is that they're not actually selling Bitcoin, PayPal as well. They're not actually selling Bitcoin. If you can't withdraw,
1151
01:34:40.250 --> 01:34:46.815
then then there's no point. Ultimately, even if you're not gonna withdraw right away, you should the goal should be to withdraw eventually and,
1152
01:34:47.215 --> 01:34:53.750
take custody yourself and and control your own money. Otherwise, you don't have that value prop. You can get locked out of your funds, so just be aware of that.
1153
01:34:54.130 --> 01:34:56.630
The second thing is you mentioned this OCC news.
1154
01:34:57.250 --> 01:35:08.125
Jack Blatchford actually asked us about 40 minutes ago about it, and I did wanna circle back to it. So just tell the freaks out there in in the audience, don't get discouraged, you know, if you keep hitting us with questions.
1155
01:35:08.620 --> 01:35:11.440
We we will hopefully discuss them, here.
1156
01:35:11.980 --> 01:35:16.560
So so do you think this is bullish, Gigi? You you made it seem like this is very bullish.
1157
01:35:16.994 --> 01:35:19.655
To me, it was kind of a non story. Am I wrong?
1158
01:35:21.235 --> 01:35:22.295
I don't know. Like,
1159
01:35:23.074 --> 01:35:29.750
it's very hard for me to answer if if that is bullish or not. Like, in a sense, everything is good for Bitcoin. And the way I see this is
1160
01:35:30.370 --> 01:35:31.250
there there is, like
1161
01:35:32.370 --> 01:35:43.175
first of all, Bitcoin doesn't care. It really doesn't matter. And you can decide how you want to interact with Bitcoin and how you use it. And Bitcoin's fundamentals haven't changed. Bitcoin's value proposition hasn't changed. And if you're,
1162
01:35:44.000 --> 01:35:44.500
like
1163
01:35:45.040 --> 01:35:49.060
an Adcap, Bitcoin, or in a circular economy, this does this doesn't phase you at all.
1164
01:35:50.485 --> 01:35:51.784
But in terms of adoption
1165
01:35:52.085 --> 01:35:53.625
and in terms of gaining,
1166
01:35:54.324 --> 01:35:54.824
legitimacy,
1167
01:35:55.364 --> 01:35:57.945
it might be, you know, like, it's very hard to be,
1168
01:35:58.790 --> 01:36:00.730
an an investor that said
1169
01:36:01.350 --> 01:36:13.265
the line for the last 5 years that Bitcoin is only for people that do illegal things. And, you know, like, that's kind of true now because now banks use it and they're doing all kinds of illegal things. But you get my point, you know, like it's it's,
1170
01:36:14.690 --> 01:36:24.135
I I don't think it's a non story. We will see what comes next because what I what news PG, it's shitcoiner news. I think, yes, everything's good for Bitcoin, but,
1171
01:36:24.935 --> 01:36:35.420
you know, as someone who does this show and does a weekly news show on Bitcoin, I think Bitcoin is really pretty bored if I just told them every news story just, oh, this is good for Bitcoin. Yeah. There's different degrees,
1172
01:36:36.280 --> 01:36:39.305
and I think this is a shitcoin story. I think this is,
1173
01:36:39.945 --> 01:36:42.285
you know, so called stable coins and,
1174
01:36:43.465 --> 01:36:46.125
you know, these these are these are short term things.
1175
01:36:46.425 --> 01:36:49.930
I think banks banks integrating Bitcoin is an inevitability,
1176
01:36:51.430 --> 01:36:55.930
but I I don't I I a self sovereign Bitcoin user gives 2 shits.
1177
01:36:56.525 --> 01:37:04.385
Yeah. Absolutely. I I I completely agree. And I think I think in the in the next coming years, we will see all kinds of bullshit in terms of,
1178
01:37:05.600 --> 01:37:06.580
you know, like,
1179
01:37:07.280 --> 01:37:16.454
digital euros and digital dollars and just central bank, quote, unquote, blockchain money and all that kind of shit. All of all of that was it's going to come. Like,
1180
01:37:16.994 --> 01:37:19.655
we saw just individuals coming up with their own,
1181
01:37:20.034 --> 01:37:21.655
spin on shit coins in 2017.
1182
01:37:22.810 --> 01:37:36.635
And, it got more sophisticated over the years. And now we're gonna have, like, nation states and central banks do it. And that's gonna be bad. A lot of a lot of people will lose a lot of money, and a lot of people will just miss out on Bitcoin because of it. But I also think, you know, just like
1183
01:37:37.415 --> 01:37:37.915
2017
1184
01:37:38.375 --> 01:37:39.275
was kind of,
1185
01:37:40.860 --> 01:37:48.560
I wouldn't necessarily say it was a necessity or something, but it's it's kind of inevitable in an open system. And I think we will just need to
1186
01:37:49.005 --> 01:37:54.465
clean away this sludge that's that's going to happen. And Bitcoin will be fine, I think. Bitcoin will
1187
01:37:54.765 --> 01:37:55.985
survive all that.
1188
01:37:56.380 --> 01:38:11.405
And and I I believe that Bitcoin will survive all that because it is built for survival and shit coins are not built for survival. And they're just built to enrich a small group of people, and it doesn't matter who is behind the shitcoin. So so in the end, I think things are going to be fine. Just,
1189
01:38:11.785 --> 01:38:20.820
you know, let let the the next shitcoin wave wash over you and just keep stacking and keep being productive and ignore the the shitcoin news as much as you can.
1190
01:38:22.045 --> 01:38:24.865
Matt, I think the OCC news is is a big deal.
1191
01:38:26.125 --> 01:38:33.210
Not actually, like, for any directories and and I totally agree that that more than anything, it's getting a lot of press in
1192
01:38:33.510 --> 01:38:36.490
the crypto community because it gives hope
1193
01:38:37.030 --> 01:38:37.690
to altcoiners.
1194
01:38:39.265 --> 01:38:41.285
But I think what it tells me
1195
01:38:41.745 --> 01:38:43.685
is that so the the OCC,
1196
01:38:44.625 --> 01:38:46.085
generally provides guidance
1197
01:38:46.929 --> 01:38:47.429
when
1198
01:38:47.730 --> 01:38:49.590
large banks request,
1199
01:38:51.090 --> 01:38:54.070
specific guidance on a topic. They when they petition
1200
01:38:54.530 --> 01:38:55.429
to have some,
1201
01:38:56.195 --> 01:39:03.655
have the rights to do something that they think would be, positive for their businesses. That's the only way those g issues guidance.
1202
01:39:04.330 --> 01:39:07.070
So this means that the banks want to
1203
01:39:07.930 --> 01:39:09.630
start using digital assets
1204
01:39:10.330 --> 01:39:10.730
to,
1205
01:39:11.210 --> 01:39:12.670
exchange money between them
1206
01:39:13.290 --> 01:39:14.030
between themselves.
1207
01:39:15.565 --> 01:39:19.025
And more than anything, that's like just like a big crack
1208
01:39:19.725 --> 01:39:20.945
in the wall between
1209
01:39:21.380 --> 01:39:22.679
the traditional system
1210
01:39:23.059 --> 01:39:24.040
and embracing
1211
01:39:24.420 --> 01:39:24.920
Bitcoin
1212
01:39:25.460 --> 01:39:27.639
that is now there, that wasn't there,
1213
01:39:28.500 --> 01:39:29.559
a few days ago.
1214
01:39:30.500 --> 01:39:31.000
And
1215
01:39:31.845 --> 01:39:39.545
that trend, you know, goes in one direction of that wall will keep getting cracks added to it until it just falls apart.
1216
01:39:40.010 --> 01:39:40.510
And,
1217
01:39:41.370 --> 01:39:42.910
you know, the way that finance
1218
01:39:43.530 --> 01:39:44.670
operates is
1219
01:39:45.130 --> 01:39:47.790
fully integrated with Bitcoin as a settlement
1220
01:39:48.810 --> 01:39:49.310
layer.
1221
01:39:50.155 --> 01:39:56.895
So it doesn't directly mean that much, but it says that there's a lot going on behind the scenes of banks
1222
01:39:57.400 --> 01:39:58.700
actively leaning into,
1223
01:39:59.320 --> 01:40:01.500
like, adopting digital assets
1224
01:40:01.800 --> 01:40:06.844
and yeah, that might mean altcoins for now but we all know where that goes, Torrance, eventually.
1225
01:40:08.585 --> 01:40:10.525
And it means that that that
1226
01:40:12.690 --> 01:40:13.190
mainstream
1227
01:40:13.650 --> 01:40:14.630
opinion of
1228
01:40:14.930 --> 01:40:16.710
digital assets is like a viable
1229
01:40:17.250 --> 01:40:17.750
technology,
1230
01:40:18.210 --> 01:40:22.735
just took a a step forward. Not a leap forward, but a solid step forward
1231
01:40:23.435 --> 01:40:25.055
and that's not gonna reverse.
1232
01:40:29.139 --> 01:40:35.639
The the thing about bull market cycles is we're gonna have tons and tons of noise. We're gonna have tons and tons of news items
1233
01:40:36.065 --> 01:40:48.610
that people are gonna pretend are way more bullish than they are. And and and media is gonna hype the shit out of them because it gets them more clicks. And and historically in the past, it's been the CoinDesk of the world, the blocks of
1234
01:40:48.910 --> 01:40:49.410
the
1235
01:40:49.790 --> 01:40:50.199
of the
1236
01:40:51.205 --> 01:41:03.679
but now it's even the main media. We had Fox Business saying that the OCC pumped price of Bitcoin and that's why the price of Bitcoin is going up. The reality is is the head of the OCC is the former lead lawyer of Coinbase,
1237
01:41:04.219 --> 01:41:06.639
and Coinbase has been obsessed with this bullshit
1238
01:41:07.105 --> 01:41:09.125
fucking stable coins nonsense.
1239
01:41:09.905 --> 01:41:14.085
And they've completely missed, you know, the forest for the trees here. Like, obviously,
1240
01:41:14.440 --> 01:41:22.860
like, Sats are my stable coin. Like, the stable coins don't solve anything. They're they're tied to a shitty money that is not stable inherently,
1241
01:41:23.560 --> 01:41:24.060
and
1242
01:41:24.365 --> 01:41:29.505
and they require trusted third party to use that is gonna be regulated. So the whole censorship resistance
1243
01:41:30.445 --> 01:41:34.949
value prop, the key reason I think the majority of us is here and why had things have value
1244
01:41:35.329 --> 01:41:37.269
doesn't exist for them. So,
1245
01:41:37.570 --> 01:41:40.789
of course, when he becomes, you know, the head of the OCC,
1246
01:41:41.465 --> 01:41:43.645
banks are allowed to use their, you know,
1247
01:41:44.025 --> 01:41:44.525
regulated
1248
01:41:45.465 --> 01:41:45.965
their
1249
01:41:46.905 --> 01:41:51.085
their VC chains and all this. I I don't I don't think it really
1250
01:41:51.690 --> 01:41:59.995
I don't think it's a bad thing. I think everything's good for Bitcoin, but I just don't I think the hype isn't there. That that the the hype isn't is where where it should be here.
1251
01:42:00.875 --> 01:42:01.855
That's a good point.
1252
01:42:02.395 --> 01:42:03.935
I fully agree with all that.
1253
01:42:04.315 --> 01:42:08.495
And, you know, maybe maybe the real utility of this this news
1254
01:42:09.090 --> 01:42:12.790
is simply that it generates hype and attention and attracts
1255
01:42:13.170 --> 01:42:13.670
interest,
1256
01:42:14.930 --> 01:42:16.630
to the whole space because,
1257
01:42:17.315 --> 01:42:21.815
you know, even if you even if it's a requirement to go through some
1258
01:42:22.195 --> 01:42:24.280
altcoiner stage, which it isn't, but,
1259
01:42:25.239 --> 01:42:27.099
even if you have to go through that journey
1260
01:42:27.400 --> 01:42:28.860
to eventually get to Bitcoin,
1261
01:42:30.119 --> 01:42:34.139
every little piece of news that pops up on CNN or Forbes or whatever,
1262
01:42:35.705 --> 01:42:38.845
makes makes the people who've been sitting on the sidelines watching
1263
01:42:39.625 --> 01:42:40.845
Bitcoin go up,
1264
01:42:41.625 --> 01:42:45.489
have just a little bit more FOMO and make them a little bit closer to jumping in.
1265
01:42:45.869 --> 01:42:46.369
And,
1266
01:42:46.829 --> 01:42:53.345
you know, maybe that's the the utility that this news provides is it just adds to this pile of FOMO that's gonna
1267
01:42:53.965 --> 01:42:56.545
force people eventually over the next year
1268
01:42:56.925 --> 01:42:58.625
to to jump into Bitcoin.
1269
01:42:59.420 --> 01:43:01.739
I I want to point out one thing, Matt.
1270
01:43:02.140 --> 01:43:18.155
I that I why I brought it up in the first place and why I think it is more bullish than you might give it credit for. And this is the infrastructure inversion topic because we won't see the mainstream banks settling anything on Bitcoin anytime soon. But what I think we will see is,
1271
01:43:19.239 --> 01:43:20.860
Bitcoin companies, they
1272
01:43:21.239 --> 01:43:26.860
they have the motivation now to actually become a bank and do that in a in like, be able
1273
01:43:27.239 --> 01:43:27.980
to settle
1274
01:43:28.395 --> 01:43:30.175
their payments globally in Bitcoin,
1275
01:43:30.875 --> 01:43:31.375
also
1276
01:43:32.715 --> 01:43:37.219
inside a jurisdiction where this is legal. You know? Like, you you can, of course,
1277
01:43:37.599 --> 01:43:39.860
just try to do it and break the law, whatever.
1278
01:43:40.480 --> 01:43:50.034
But I think I think this is one step towards this infrastructure inversion. And I I see a world already. Like, for me, this is crystal clear that this is going to happen, that
1279
01:43:50.335 --> 01:43:50.835
just
1280
01:43:52.220 --> 01:43:52.720
apps
1281
01:43:53.100 --> 01:44:00.240
like Cash App and and Strike and everyone who is working on the payment rails side of things, so to speak,
1282
01:44:00.685 --> 01:44:11.160
They they will there there will be a point where you can just basically do what WeChat and Alipay is doing in China, but you do it on Bitcoin and you do it in a in a free and censorship resistant way.
1283
01:44:11.940 --> 01:44:15.240
I might be wrong, you know, like, I can see the possibility.
1284
01:44:16.100 --> 01:44:19.715
But I I think I think that it's one step towards,
1285
01:44:21.535 --> 01:44:24.114
the also the regulatory framework,
1286
01:44:24.975 --> 01:44:30.120
where something like that goes way, way easier for the companies that are actually working on that.
1287
01:44:39.645 --> 01:44:44.225
Look. I mean, I I think there's I think there was good good points made here on on both sides.
1288
01:44:45.120 --> 01:44:48.820
And I think it it'll be pretty obvious, like, as things start to play out,
1289
01:44:50.080 --> 01:44:51.620
which stories are
1290
01:44:52.665 --> 01:44:55.805
are are are are are noise and which stories are signal.
1291
01:44:57.305 --> 01:44:57.805
And
1292
01:44:58.345 --> 01:45:01.165
I just caution people to just be wary.
1293
01:45:01.620 --> 01:45:08.280
We're at the beginning of the precipice of a massive run here, and there's gonna be so much noise, and there's gonna be so much bullshit.
1294
01:45:08.635 --> 01:45:12.575
And really at the end of the day, like, most of the shit doesn't matter,
1295
01:45:13.675 --> 01:45:15.935
and and Bitcoin will just keep trucking on.
1296
01:45:16.920 --> 01:45:26.355
I I want to When when ETF when ETF, man? When ETF. Yeah. Exactly. VanEck just recently launched their ETF again, so I'm sure we'll hear a bunch of stuff about that.
1297
01:45:28.015 --> 01:45:30.835
Where did I wanna bring this to? I wanted to bring this to something.
1298
01:45:33.440 --> 01:45:35.060
Someone mentioned in here
1299
01:45:38.560 --> 01:45:48.795
so so so someone mentioned earlier, they said coin join. Why do people say you should CoinJoin if you KYC and you should CoinJoin if you use Bisc and you're not and you're not using KYC?
1300
01:45:49.230 --> 01:45:52.850
And the reason is because CoinJoin is at its essence is is
1301
01:45:53.310 --> 01:45:57.170
a is a batch Bitcoin send transaction. It's a Bitcoin transaction
1302
01:45:57.645 --> 01:46:10.610
that uses best practices in terms of privacy. And if you don't want the person who sends you Bitcoin, whether that's Bisk or whether, you know, an individual on Bisq, whether that's your employee employer who's paying you in Bitcoin,
1303
01:46:11.070 --> 01:46:12.850
whether it's a customer at your store,
1304
01:46:13.445 --> 01:46:15.705
whether that's Cash App who's sending it to you,
1305
01:46:16.165 --> 01:46:26.920
you if you don't want that person to know your total balances, all your future transactions, then you have to use CoinJoin. And the same goes for people you pay pay you pay. And if you pay someone you don't want them to know,
1306
01:46:27.699 --> 01:46:31.995
your current balance, your future balance, future transactions, you're gonna you're gonna need to use CoinJoin.
1307
01:46:33.895 --> 01:46:39.115
And and this is just something that people need to keep in mind because Bitcoin is an open ledger that's out there forever.
1308
01:46:39.480 --> 01:46:52.435
And and if we're right, it's it's gonna exist forever and it's never gonna change. So so you're gonna just have this ledger of every single transaction you've ever made. And if you made a mistake, it's gonna screw you in the future. So you need to start educating yourself on that now.
1309
01:46:53.055 --> 01:46:54.435
Couple good guides are bitcoinprivacy.guide.
1310
01:46:56.095 --> 01:46:56.595
Usewhirlpool.com
1311
01:46:57.215 --> 01:46:59.780
as a coinjoin specific guide. 6102
1312
01:47:00.480 --> 01:47:00.980
bitcoin.com.
1313
01:47:02.640 --> 01:47:04.500
Oh, no. Bitcoin dash only.com/hashtagprivacy
1314
01:47:06.720 --> 01:47:07.700
is another one.
1315
01:47:08.695 --> 01:47:11.034
You should work on his domains. I think I have btcprivacy.org
1316
01:47:11.895 --> 01:47:14.875
redirect to that. But, anyway, there's a bunch of shills out for that.
1317
01:47:15.494 --> 01:47:15.994
6102
1318
01:47:16.580 --> 01:47:19.000
did have a question. That's what I wanted to bring up,
1319
01:47:19.460 --> 01:47:25.640
about Taproot. Do we think that this price appreciation is gonna delay Taproot activation? What do we think about Taproot activation?
1320
01:47:28.925 --> 01:47:31.744
I I actually don't think it has that much of an influence,
1321
01:47:32.445 --> 01:47:33.585
on on a delay.
1322
01:47:34.764 --> 01:47:35.665
I I think
1323
01:47:37.150 --> 01:47:38.850
I I think I think we will
1324
01:47:39.150 --> 01:47:40.290
see it this year,
1325
01:47:41.470 --> 01:47:43.890
and I think support is strong in general.
1326
01:47:44.535 --> 01:47:46.315
Last time I checked, it was, like, 95%
1327
01:47:46.695 --> 01:47:48.155
plus on Taproot activation.
1328
01:47:48.695 --> 01:47:50.155
And I I think it's
1329
01:47:50.455 --> 01:47:51.755
just in general,
1330
01:47:52.350 --> 01:47:54.850
this process is slow and should be slow.
1331
01:47:55.630 --> 01:47:56.770
But I think that
1332
01:47:57.469 --> 01:47:57.969
most
1333
01:47:58.270 --> 01:48:00.270
people agree that this is an,
1334
01:48:00.830 --> 01:48:01.330
like,
1335
01:48:01.635 --> 01:48:03.335
a great upgrade, and
1336
01:48:03.635 --> 01:48:07.975
the the risks are, I think, kind of well understood and
1337
01:48:09.010 --> 01:48:11.350
not too big in the 1st place. So
1338
01:48:12.130 --> 01:48:13.030
I I think
1339
01:48:13.410 --> 01:48:13.570
in
1340
01:48:14.530 --> 01:48:25.565
the the reason why I think that the price action doesn't delay too much is that most people that are actually working on Taproot and working on the activation and stuff like that, they've been around for a long while. I think they have their way of
1341
01:48:26.220 --> 01:48:28.160
of, you know, like, their info.
1342
01:48:28.540 --> 01:48:30.720
No way, Gigi. It affects everybody.
1343
01:48:32.140 --> 01:48:36.195
You think so? You think it really affects? You either you either have a lot of Bitcoin
1344
01:48:36.735 --> 01:48:40.995
and the price is moving, you know, affects your net worth significantly,
1345
01:48:41.695 --> 01:48:53.305
or you don't have enough Bitcoin and the price moving is giving you massive FOMO. And either way, every single person you know in real life thinks of you as the Bitcoin guy and this is starting to reach out to you. And you know they're gonna start to reach out to you more and more.
1346
01:48:55.465 --> 01:49:03.460
And you have people like Michael Sailor entering the ring that all have very big opinions and are talking all over the place. Right? It just creates all this additional
1347
01:49:04.320 --> 01:49:16.975
so so so let's let's talk empirically. I want you both on the record. Today is January 5th. January 5th 2022. Hate to do it to you. Can I use a tap root? Where I am. Okay. January 6th. Apologies.
1348
01:49:18.235 --> 01:49:23.930
Really block time is all that matters. Can I use can I use a Taproot address this time next year?
1349
01:49:25.430 --> 01:49:27.530
Yes. I think so. Yeah. I will say that.
1350
01:49:28.525 --> 01:49:29.665
Well, you know,
1351
01:49:30.445 --> 01:49:31.824
I'm glad you guys are bullish.
1352
01:49:32.764 --> 01:49:36.909
I'm bullish on Taproot. I I truly think that someone like Peter Woller,
1353
01:49:37.369 --> 01:49:49.045
you know, and and I I I I have those people in mind. I don't I don't think they're faced too much by the price action. They sit down and they do the thing and it's gonna be They're definitely getting hit up by all their friends who have ignored them for years now.
1354
01:49:50.225 --> 01:49:50.725
Yeah.
1355
01:49:51.345 --> 01:50:01.460
So so so our text based host, 6102 Bitcoin asked, so if you think Taproot will be active at this point next year and will be using the address, what is the activation method? How does that look?
1356
01:50:01.765 --> 01:50:03.465
I have no idea. That's beyond
1357
01:50:03.765 --> 01:50:04.265
me.
1358
01:50:05.205 --> 01:50:11.545
I also I I just can't answer I don't know. Like, it's Yeah. Well, so it's easy to be bullish when you don't have a plan.
1359
01:50:11.989 --> 01:50:12.889
That's true.
1360
01:50:14.550 --> 01:50:15.449
That's right.
1361
01:50:16.469 --> 01:50:24.744
I I mean, I think that Bitcoiners should start pushing for it, and I and and I don't want people to think that I'm being derogatory towards it. I think being realistically pessimistic
1362
01:50:25.445 --> 01:50:28.585
could maybe trigger people into pushing for it more.
1363
01:50:29.320 --> 01:50:36.780
So, hopefully, they didn't hear me say that, and that's kind of what I've been going for, because I think everyone is being a little bit too naively bullish,
1364
01:50:37.575 --> 01:50:38.795
when really we want,
1365
01:50:39.415 --> 01:50:43.915
like, cautiously optimistic action, and we need people to, like, kinda push for this because,
1366
01:50:44.615 --> 01:50:46.315
after what happened last time,
1367
01:50:47.160 --> 01:50:47.820
you know,
1368
01:50:48.200 --> 01:50:52.620
no one's paycheck relies on getting this thing activated, and no one wants to stand up,
1369
01:50:53.800 --> 01:50:57.255
to to to to, like, push the ball forward, basically.
1370
01:50:58.434 --> 01:51:03.414
They don't want they don't wanna get hit in within all the crossfire. So so it should be interesting to see
1371
01:51:04.770 --> 01:51:08.530
how this plays out, and it's definitely a big thing that people should be watching for big I'm
1372
01:51:09.330 --> 01:51:11.330
like, let let's be honest, though. Like, I don't think it
1373
01:51:12.835 --> 01:51:14.375
you know, Bitcoin pumps regardless.
1374
01:51:16.915 --> 01:51:18.375
It's not like price news.
1375
01:51:18.915 --> 01:51:38.775
Yeah. And and also in terms of Taproot activation, I mean, everyone should understand that this is, like, a long process, just the activation process and stuff. But whatever path it will take, it will always be a long process and then just also the the Which is a feature. Let's explain why. Of course. It is a feature. But also the even if it's then activated, also just
1376
01:51:39.810 --> 01:51:40.390
the network
1377
01:51:40.770 --> 01:51:55.065
that every individual node gradually opting in into the change and making use of it is an even longer process. You know? Like, we just, like forever. What what's what segue the usage at? You know? Like, it's I don't know. Said, like, 50% or something. Yeah. So so that's ridiculous.
1378
01:51:55.445 --> 01:51:58.560
And so I I I would say, you know, like, Taproot, yes,
1379
01:51:59.020 --> 01:51:59.520
for
1380
01:52:00.860 --> 01:52:04.240
the the very enthusiastic people that are super early.
1381
01:52:05.625 --> 01:52:09.804
But, like, widespread usage, you know, that that takes its time and that's that's a feature.
1382
01:52:11.304 --> 01:52:12.925
And why why is that a feature?
1383
01:52:13.810 --> 01:52:15.830
Let's let's let's explain this.
1384
01:52:16.530 --> 01:52:20.425
I'm not sure if I can do it quickly because, you know, like, 3rd glass of whiskey. But
1385
01:52:21.065 --> 01:52:36.825
what what everyone has to understand is Bitcoin works because you run your own network, so to speak. You you make the rules. You know, it makes the rules. And there is just no way to force anyone to opt into anything. Like, that it's there there are no automatic upgrades. There are no there is no there is no, like, Bitcoin
1386
01:52:37.625 --> 01:52:43.165
there are no Bitcoin high priests that decide what gets activated. Everyone has to decide, like, different actors have to decide
1387
01:52:43.990 --> 01:52:45.530
to upgrade their notes. And,
1388
01:52:47.590 --> 01:52:54.085
that's that's why even even if it becomes part of the protocol and of the client and and and all of that,
1389
01:52:54.865 --> 01:53:10.565
everyone has to decide individually to upgrade to a certain version, activate it, and so on and so forth. Yeah. I mean, this this simple the simple concept to see here is if if there was a central party that can initiate auto updates, then that central party becomes an attack vector and they can they can easily just,
1390
01:53:11.285 --> 01:53:14.185
add some kind of malicious update that either benefits themselves
1391
01:53:14.725 --> 01:53:15.225
or,
1392
01:53:15.765 --> 01:53:20.860
if they're forced to by a regulatory body, which is is historically what we've seen with any kind of,
1393
01:53:22.940 --> 01:53:26.385
financial system that that that tries to subvert authority.
1394
01:53:26.925 --> 01:53:29.505
And this goes back to that Chitcoin conversation previously,
1395
01:53:30.285 --> 01:53:33.585
is is if you have decentralized chains, like, they just cannot provide,
1396
01:53:34.210 --> 01:53:35.830
you know, this idea of decentralization,
1397
01:53:36.210 --> 01:53:36.870
of distribution,
1398
01:53:37.410 --> 01:53:44.155
of robustness is is not a question of marketing. It's not a question of selling the token. It's a question of absolute necessity.
1399
01:53:44.614 --> 01:53:46.474
If you do not have the capability
1400
01:53:46.855 --> 01:53:47.514
to resist,
1401
01:53:48.455 --> 01:53:48.955
centralized
1402
01:53:49.520 --> 01:53:53.460
action by by regulatory bodies, by these massive nation states,
1403
01:53:54.080 --> 01:54:02.244
then your chain will have to bend to the will to them. Your project will have to bend to the will to them, and then all of a sudden you get you have all this KYC and stuff that gets added in,
1404
01:54:02.945 --> 01:54:08.630
which is exactly what we're trying to subvert in the first place. It's exactly what the value prop is in the first
1405
01:54:10.630 --> 01:54:13.050
place. Right? Absolutely. Amen to that.
1406
01:54:18.585 --> 01:54:20.745
So, Crow, someone is asking you
1407
01:54:22.800 --> 01:54:30.980
let me see. I got it right here. S m on on on YouTube is asking you, based on your threads, have we seen the supply shock yet?
1408
01:54:31.635 --> 01:54:32.135
Yeah.
1409
01:54:32.728 --> 01:54:32.835
Fun question.
1410
01:54:35.075 --> 01:54:35.575
So
1411
01:54:36.835 --> 01:54:37.815
for people who
1412
01:54:38.115 --> 01:54:43.220
haven't seen it, I put out like a a series of visualizations of of what,
1413
01:54:44.160 --> 01:54:47.300
the having does to the balance of supply and demand
1414
01:54:47.680 --> 01:54:48.660
and how that,
1415
01:54:50.195 --> 01:54:57.255
so that is the supply shock is is is when at the having, suddenly there's half as much supply. So it's a shock
1416
01:54:57.730 --> 01:54:59.090
to the balance of,
1417
01:55:00.130 --> 01:55:00.950
of the market.
1418
01:55:01.410 --> 01:55:01.910
And
1419
01:55:02.290 --> 01:55:03.670
from that point in time,
1420
01:55:04.370 --> 01:55:05.510
a supply shortage
1421
01:55:06.115 --> 01:55:06.615
accumulates
1422
01:55:06.995 --> 01:55:08.775
little by little every day,
1423
01:55:09.715 --> 01:55:10.535
every month
1424
01:55:10.915 --> 01:55:13.895
from that point on because in truth, there's
1425
01:55:14.760 --> 01:55:18.380
there's always so much Bitcoin available for sale on the marketplace
1426
01:55:19.160 --> 01:55:19.660
and
1427
01:55:20.680 --> 01:55:22.700
that's really what gets eaten into
1428
01:55:23.160 --> 01:55:23.900
as the
1429
01:55:24.835 --> 01:55:27.415
the net shortage of of new supply
1430
01:55:28.275 --> 01:55:28.775
causes,
1431
01:55:29.155 --> 01:55:32.375
the market to drain the available sale of Bitcoin
1432
01:55:32.780 --> 01:55:41.280
and turn that into, you know, people holding Bitcoin. So suddenly that the amount of available for sale Bitcoin shrinks over time over the ensuing months.
1433
01:55:42.645 --> 01:55:46.105
And when I looked back at the in previous cycles and
1434
01:55:46.485 --> 01:55:50.425
and looked at sort of what the, HODL waves looked like
1435
01:55:51.000 --> 01:55:53.020
after that, after the havings.
1436
01:55:54.760 --> 01:55:56.380
It seems to be that in,
1437
01:55:56.840 --> 01:55:59.420
you know, the after 6 months is when
1438
01:55:59.960 --> 01:56:01.614
the shortage starts to
1439
01:56:01.915 --> 01:56:03.215
shift from being like
1440
01:56:04.155 --> 01:56:06.655
a theoretical one or when it's sort
1441
01:56:07.275 --> 01:56:08.574
of slightly happening
1442
01:56:09.119 --> 01:56:12.179
to suddenly being felt quite acutely,
1443
01:56:12.639 --> 01:56:13.380
and increasingly
1444
01:56:13.840 --> 01:56:14.340
acutely.
1445
01:56:14.880 --> 01:56:18.260
Specifically, because as the price starts to drift upwards
1446
01:56:19.765 --> 01:56:20.085
to,
1447
01:56:21.605 --> 01:56:23.545
to to unlock supply to,
1448
01:56:24.725 --> 01:56:25.305
you know,
1449
01:56:25.850 --> 01:56:30.110
because there's so much demand that it bids it up in in order to find more supply.
1450
01:56:33.755 --> 01:56:36.075
That it's around 6 months that that,
1451
01:56:36.795 --> 01:56:42.335
the the drifting up of supply caused of of price causes there to be more demand
1452
01:56:42.850 --> 01:56:43.670
for Bitcoin,
1453
01:56:44.130 --> 01:56:45.750
which is what we're seeing right now.
1454
01:56:46.130 --> 01:56:48.710
So the, you know, the acute shortage
1455
01:56:49.945 --> 01:56:52.685
as a result as a result of the accumulation
1456
01:56:53.705 --> 01:56:57.725
of each day, each 10 minutes, there being a deficit of supply,
1457
01:56:58.739 --> 01:57:05.800
is starting now. And it's still in its early stages because we've got another we've got another year
1458
01:57:06.265 --> 01:57:07.645
or maybe 9 months.
1459
01:57:08.265 --> 01:57:10.045
But at least that before
1460
01:57:10.345 --> 01:57:14.605
this thing plays out to its mania stage that we've seen in the past.
1461
01:57:22.320 --> 01:57:24.020
Gigi, you have any thoughts here?
1462
01:57:26.185 --> 01:57:26.685
Yeah.
1463
01:57:27.465 --> 01:57:27.965
Not
1464
01:57:28.505 --> 01:57:29.725
not not too many.
1465
01:57:30.505 --> 01:57:31.245
I think
1466
01:57:31.599 --> 01:57:36.260
I I really like the visualizations in the threat, that really drives home
1467
01:57:36.800 --> 01:57:37.300
how
1468
01:57:37.840 --> 01:57:39.699
this dynamic kind of plays out.
1469
01:57:41.345 --> 01:57:44.085
I I would just also like to point out that
1470
01:57:44.865 --> 01:57:46.085
while while I see
1471
01:57:47.105 --> 01:57:51.400
the cycle pattern repeating, I just think nobody knows what Bitcoin's gonna do.
1472
01:57:52.260 --> 01:57:52.760
And,
1473
01:57:53.620 --> 01:57:54.680
so I think it's,
1474
01:57:55.220 --> 01:57:55.720
yeah,
1475
01:57:56.260 --> 01:57:56.760
it's
1476
01:57:57.505 --> 01:57:59.844
I I think some people are really,
1477
01:58:00.465 --> 01:58:03.445
speculating on certain numbers and,
1478
01:58:03.905 --> 01:58:04.724
just certain
1479
01:58:05.930 --> 01:58:08.430
repetitions of the past, so to speak. And,
1480
01:58:09.530 --> 01:58:11.790
I'm I'm not confident that,
1481
01:58:12.810 --> 01:58:13.550
it will
1482
01:58:13.930 --> 01:58:14.910
be, like,
1483
01:58:15.515 --> 01:58:18.175
exactly the same. It might be even more stupid.
1484
01:58:18.555 --> 01:58:21.135
Like, I It's not different? Is that what you're saying?
1485
01:58:22.590 --> 01:58:30.130
Not necessarily because, you know, like, it's I I like the calculations that, the humble fry Friar is doing all the time.
1486
01:58:30.590 --> 01:58:35.735
In terms of to keep a certain price level, you have to have a certain amount of,
1487
01:58:36.215 --> 01:58:41.355
you you it's it's basically also what what's visualized in the crow's threat that
1488
01:58:41.800 --> 01:58:45.740
you have to take the new supply off the market. So you have to eat up the new supply.
1489
01:58:46.120 --> 01:58:46.600
And,
1490
01:58:47.160 --> 01:59:00.350
Hasma Koch has great calculations how much DCA is necessary just to eat up the new supply. And that's like, the new new supply is tiny in terms of liquidity, in terms of what is actually We were eating that up already. Right? Yeah. Yeah. And but I
1491
01:59:00.969 --> 01:59:02.190
I just think that
1492
01:59:02.730 --> 01:59:04.830
the dynamics like, some things have changed.
1493
01:59:05.185 --> 01:59:10.485
I I I'm not saying this is the last cycle. Like, again, I don't believe that, but Not the fucking last cycle.
1494
01:59:11.825 --> 01:59:24.335
I just repeated that just trigger you, Matt. I, like, oh, I, like, I opened Twitter for, like, a little bit to see if there was any comments on the Twitter main thread, and I saw Stefan was, like, 2 cycles and done. And then he just tweeted it out.
1495
01:59:25.114 --> 01:59:26.655
Such a fucking mean man.
1496
01:59:27.514 --> 01:59:33.699
But but I think, you know, what we see what I think is interesting is, for example, the glass node statistics that we see that
1497
01:59:34.080 --> 01:59:36.020
historically when the price shoots up,
1498
01:59:36.960 --> 01:59:37.460
the,
1499
01:59:38.080 --> 01:59:49.275
the amount that is sitting on exchanges shoots up as well. And this is just not happening this time, at least not not up to now. So yeah. The reverse the first time ever that the Yeah. The exchange balances has gone down, but I would caution people
1500
01:59:49.820 --> 01:59:50.800
that Glassnode
1501
01:59:51.100 --> 01:59:55.440
and the other one I think is Viewbase that is tracking it, they don't include the custodians.
1502
01:59:55.980 --> 02:00:00.635
So, like, when the Michael Sailors and the Scaramucci's and stuff are taking it off of Coinbase,
1503
02:00:01.175 --> 02:00:03.755
and they're sending it to, like, Anchorage and Prime Trust,
1504
02:00:05.255 --> 02:00:05.755
like,
1505
02:00:06.250 --> 02:00:23.425
is there's there's there's not much of there's not much of a difference there. I do think there's, like, millions of humble sat stackers out there that are that are pulling Bitcoin off exchanges into their own self custody, and I think that's the most bullish fundamental. But I think people need to be aware that, you know, like, that glass node chart for instance is,
1506
02:00:24.640 --> 02:00:28.480
it it's it's not counting these regulated custodians, which might as well, you know
1507
02:00:29.280 --> 02:00:30.580
I think the difference between
1508
02:00:30.975 --> 02:00:36.435
an Anchorage Wallet or a Prime Trust Wallet, you know, a top tier regulated custodian versus Coinbase,
1509
02:00:36.815 --> 02:00:39.715
the number one largest regulated exchange and custodian,
1510
02:00:40.730 --> 02:00:43.790
is is probably minor, right, in terms of US government
1511
02:00:46.170 --> 02:00:52.895
interference or whatnot. I agree. I agree. And it it it always depends on how you wanna look at it. Like, every
1512
02:00:53.514 --> 02:00:58.014
single point of failure is a single point of failure, and we can see, like,
1513
02:00:58.330 --> 02:01:00.430
just crazy things happening if if,
1514
02:01:01.450 --> 02:01:03.630
a large amount of coins are concentrated
1515
02:01:03.930 --> 02:01:05.230
with those single custodians.
1516
02:01:05.605 --> 02:01:06.585
Our boy Dreiman,
1517
02:01:07.445 --> 02:01:13.065
Dreiman, I don't know how to pronounce it. There's a special place in hell for you you and and people like Crow who pick
1518
02:01:13.829 --> 02:01:17.690
who pick names that are hard to pronounce intentionally because you got to pick the name.
1519
02:01:18.869 --> 02:01:25.995
He said for some fiat currencies, this will be the last cycle. I mean, by by that by that method, I mean, the last cycle was the first cycle.
1520
02:01:27.495 --> 02:01:39.090
That's true. I mean, he's right. He's right about that. That that's just some horrible shit coins. I think that When do you decide? When do you decide? At what threshold do you decide? These these things have been dumping forever. I put up USD SAT before.
1521
02:01:39.775 --> 02:01:40.995
I'm currently in, like,
1522
02:01:41.375 --> 02:01:47.630
a a nice cabin in the woods, and my Internet's not that good. So when I tried to put up USD SAT, the the page started glitching out. But,
1523
02:01:48.590 --> 02:01:52.929
you know, the dollar has been collapsing this whole fucking time, you know, since cycle 1,
1524
02:01:53.230 --> 02:01:55.889
since before Bitcoin existed. Like, at what point,
1525
02:01:56.824 --> 02:02:04.445
do you do you do that threshold? At what point does it stop being a meme? Like, there's gonna be massive corrections. Like, I I I would be really surprised.
1526
02:02:04.960 --> 02:02:10.500
That'd be awesome, but I'd be really surprised if there wasn't some kind of massive corrections as this adoption cycle plays out.
1527
02:02:11.280 --> 02:02:14.855
I think Bitcoin took over another Fiat currency at the point where,
1528
02:02:15.875 --> 02:02:18.215
one Satoshi buys you multiple
1529
02:02:18.515 --> 02:02:29.040
instances of your Fiat chit coin. Like, if one Satoshi is, like, $3, then it it's it's game over. And we saw that with a bunch of currencies. It's like sad dollar domination instead of parity.
1530
02:02:29.865 --> 02:02:33.245
Yeah. Yeah. But I I think, you know, like, if if you if you,
1531
02:02:33.865 --> 02:02:35.545
can't break it down into
1532
02:02:36.345 --> 02:02:39.860
if if if the worth of 1 of your Fiat units goes below,
1533
02:02:41.040 --> 02:02:46.955
below 1 satoshi, then it's game over, I I would say. Then it's officially a bad shit coin.
1534
02:02:49.495 --> 02:02:50.795
But we could go lower.
1535
02:02:52.349 --> 02:02:58.050
They they can go to 0. Yeah. Of course. They they all goes that they will all go to 0. I think that's clear.
1536
02:03:03.635 --> 02:03:06.455
Crow, we've been kinda talking over. You got anything for us?
1537
02:03:10.000 --> 02:03:12.180
Not at the moment. Kinda reached
1538
02:03:13.040 --> 02:03:15.300
the point where I didn't have any thoughts.
1539
02:03:16.145 --> 02:03:17.025
Freak, this is,
1540
02:03:18.784 --> 02:03:20.244
this has been a great conversation.
1541
02:03:21.025 --> 02:03:23.205
Do you have any final questions for us?
1542
02:03:24.500 --> 02:03:26.440
I don't want I don't wanna push this
1543
02:03:26.740 --> 02:03:32.760
longer than than I'm having a great time, but I I don't wanna push this longer than quality allows.
1544
02:03:33.395 --> 02:03:36.135
One sat equals 1 cent. Yes. I agree.
1545
02:03:37.715 --> 02:03:40.295
1200 joules per sat is my price prediction.
1546
02:03:40.755 --> 02:03:42.775
I like that, but I actually kind of think
1547
02:03:43.620 --> 02:03:49.720
I think maybe just sat is the universal unit of, like, pretty much everything. It's like what the conversion rate is to sats.
1548
02:03:52.105 --> 02:03:56.685
Maybe you won't even need joules to measure energy if you could just measure it in sats output.
1549
02:04:00.790 --> 02:04:02.490
But maybe I'm just going too
1550
02:04:03.110 --> 02:04:04.250
too deep now.
1551
02:04:05.270 --> 02:04:07.290
Would you buy, would you buy a
1552
02:04:07.705 --> 02:04:08.205
a
1553
02:04:08.665 --> 02:04:10.525
stranded natural gas well
1554
02:04:11.305 --> 02:04:13.245
and set up a Hash Hut thing?
1555
02:04:13.625 --> 02:04:20.580
Yeah. I I think the the key to mining that people don't realize in the next generation of mining is going to be basically mining at basically
1556
02:04:24.225 --> 02:04:32.945
basically at breakeven or below, slightly below, and the the benefit you get is you get a steady supply of k y c free coins. And I think I think really
1557
02:04:33.880 --> 02:04:39.900
the reason we haven't seen it is because it's it's hard to get large amounts of ASICs. And ASICs,
1558
02:04:40.360 --> 02:04:48.335
they they they their life cycles don't last as long as as they probably should. They their life cycles are increasing in terms of buying an ASIC until it goes outdated.
1559
02:04:49.810 --> 02:04:52.870
But I think, ultimately, the future of Bitcoin mining is
1560
02:04:53.250 --> 02:04:54.469
these small scale
1561
02:04:55.010 --> 02:04:55.910
mining ops,
1562
02:04:56.905 --> 02:05:01.325
that are that are are are willing to sustain a loss. Like, I would be happy to sustain,
1563
02:05:01.945 --> 02:05:02.685
like, a 20%,
1564
02:05:03.465 --> 02:05:04.550
loss on on
1565
02:05:04.949 --> 02:05:06.409
on regulated market price,
1566
02:05:07.110 --> 02:05:10.809
to get to get, like, a steady stream of KYC free sats.
1567
02:05:11.429 --> 02:05:13.770
Wow. 20%. That is a high premium.
1568
02:05:14.485 --> 02:05:18.905
You wouldn't you wouldn't pay you wouldn't pay 20% for, like, a, like, a secret bag?
1569
02:05:20.325 --> 02:05:23.320
Like, a constant secret bag that just was, like, filling up?
1570
02:05:23.719 --> 02:05:38.915
But but you are towards the extreme on, in terms of value valuing that. And I'm I frequently when I listen to to your stuff, I'm always, like, But let's talk about what 20% is right now. Right? That that's like paying 39,000 a coin for KYC free stats. Right?
1571
02:05:39.295 --> 02:05:49.700
Yeah. And maybe That's not bad. That that's not a bad price, is it? Like, we're gonna go substantially higher than that. That's true. That's not yeah. It depends on what time frame you're you're looking at. It's a deal
1572
02:05:50.080 --> 02:05:51.025
a year from now.
1573
02:06:01.010 --> 02:06:02.630
I'm muted. This is a good question.
1574
02:06:03.090 --> 02:06:11.475
Can we talk about bisque and counterparty risk? How can I ensure that the person selling it to me doesn't know who I am and how much I own? How can I ensure they're not selling me stolen KYC coins?
1575
02:06:12.594 --> 02:06:13.495
So you can't,
1576
02:06:14.675 --> 02:06:17.415
the the the biggest risk of bisque the biggest,
1577
02:06:18.239 --> 02:06:18.900
not risk,
1578
02:06:19.520 --> 02:06:21.780
the the biggest pain point of bisque
1579
02:06:22.400 --> 02:06:26.260
is the fiat side. And this is why Bitcoin's dope. Right? Like,
1580
02:06:27.565 --> 02:06:31.825
fiat is a pain in the ass to interact with, and it's not great for privacy.
1581
02:06:33.005 --> 02:06:36.145
So, obviously, if you're sending a bank transfer to someone,
1582
02:06:36.830 --> 02:06:43.650
it's gonna have whatever traits that bank transfer option you have depending on where you live in the world. Some people have better options, you know, in America.
1583
02:06:44.145 --> 02:06:50.485
People have, like, Zelle, I think, in in in the in in in Japan. They have better systems in place,
1584
02:06:51.025 --> 02:06:52.885
that their fiat payments are better.
1585
02:06:53.540 --> 02:06:55.240
But that will always be the pain point.
1586
02:06:55.940 --> 02:07:01.800
You can also, on Bisc, use a person to person cash, which is obviously will always be better for privacy.
1587
02:07:02.835 --> 02:07:10.455
And I think they have, like, Amazon gift cards and stuff that you could technically use. It it'll always be a pain point. The fee outside is a pain point. Why we Bitcoin?
1588
02:07:10.780 --> 02:07:13.120
You know, you don't have that pain point once you move to Bitcoin.
1589
02:07:15.500 --> 02:07:18.080
As as for the the second part, I mean,
1590
02:07:19.995 --> 02:07:31.200
you know, that this isn't this is an issue with Bitcoin fungibility in general. Right? And this is why people should be using CoinJoin. This is why, like, the historical path of of of where Bitcoin's been shouldn't matter.
1591
02:07:32.060 --> 02:07:40.344
And and it's just it's something that that that is not unique to Bitcoin. And, you know, if if what if you get cash, like, how do you know where that cash came from?
1592
02:07:40.885 --> 02:07:42.425
So you so you need to,
1593
02:07:44.500 --> 02:07:51.640
this is why it's super important that even people that use non KYC options also learn how to use Bitcoin more privately and and and learn these tools.
1594
02:07:52.305 --> 02:07:53.285
What do you guys think?
1595
02:07:53.825 --> 02:07:58.945
Yeah. Absolutely. I I think you're you were on point with all of those things. Just keep in mind that,
1596
02:08:00.500 --> 02:08:04.820
meeting someone in MeetSpace has its own set of risks. So,
1597
02:08:05.380 --> 02:08:11.775
just be aware of that even though in terms of privacy, it might be the best option. Right. We just had a guy in Hong Kong who,
1598
02:08:12.395 --> 02:08:16.315
did, like, a face to face cash deal. And Yeah. So,
1599
02:08:17.440 --> 02:08:21.300
I just wanted to point it out, because I think not everyone thinks,
1600
02:08:22.400 --> 02:08:22.900
adversarially.
1601
02:08:23.280 --> 02:08:25.755
And so just keep that in mind that
1602
02:08:26.215 --> 02:08:29.115
you have to be confident comfortable with doing that. And,
1603
02:08:30.375 --> 02:08:46.365
yeah. I mean, it it it really depends on how you wanna use Bisq. If you haven't checked it out yet, I highly recommend you do. It's it's really easy to use, I I would say. Like, if you're if if you if you're good with, like, clicking through UIs, then it shouldn't be too much of a problem. And as Matt said,
1604
02:08:46.925 --> 02:08:49.085
the biggest pain point is your your,
1605
02:08:50.310 --> 02:08:52.650
you interacting with the field system. And,
1606
02:08:53.350 --> 02:09:06.835
in terms of other privacy side, I think a good way to think about CoinJoin in general is just like it it think think about it in a way just like you would clear your browser history, for example. And the problem is that everyone has access to your browser history.
1607
02:09:07.454 --> 02:09:07.954
So
1608
02:09:09.440 --> 02:09:13.540
you you you you kind of have a way to to clear the history,
1609
02:09:14.240 --> 02:09:16.420
of of the coins you use. And if you,
1610
02:09:17.585 --> 02:09:22.165
yeah, if you don't reuse addresses, which you should never do, and if you,
1611
02:09:23.265 --> 02:09:26.325
take care of your UTXO's and and kind of
1612
02:09:26.650 --> 02:09:27.310
learn about
1613
02:09:28.330 --> 02:09:29.310
the best practices
1614
02:09:29.770 --> 02:09:31.150
in Bitcoin privacy,
1615
02:09:31.530 --> 02:09:36.110
then you should be good on the Bitcoin side when interacting with someone else in Bisq.
1616
02:09:39.645 --> 02:09:43.425
Someone asked what an XPub is. I I I I would mark it as a troll.
1617
02:09:44.685 --> 02:09:50.050
I'm not Peter McCormick. I've if you wanna know what what an ex pub is, just suffer through,
1618
02:09:50.510 --> 02:09:53.730
Matt's and and Pete's conversation. Don't. Don't.
1619
02:09:54.755 --> 02:10:01.050
Gigi, actually, he he's, you know, he's understating himself as he usually does, has a whole post on what an x pub is.
1620
02:10:02.489 --> 02:10:06.989
I guess where is that? Is that on the swan blog, Gigi? Yeah. It's on the swan blog. Yeah.
1621
02:10:07.849 --> 02:10:19.125
I also wrote a tool where you can play around with your xPub if you want to. It's you can you can even if you're paranoid, you can look through the whole source code and disconnect from the Internet and just use your xPub.
1622
02:10:19.540 --> 02:10:20.440
As Matt said,
1623
02:10:21.300 --> 02:10:25.000
XPub is basically best understood as your few key, so you cannot
1624
02:10:25.620 --> 02:10:34.515
send any coins, but you can see the whole wallet. So you can see what's going on. And the XPEL is used it's it's like it's like a parent key. It's like a a master key that can use,
1625
02:10:35.375 --> 02:10:39.220
more addresses. And it's it's all of it is new nuanced. So,
1626
02:10:40.080 --> 02:10:40.580
it's
1627
02:10:41.680 --> 02:10:43.860
there are different types of xPubs. And,
1628
02:10:45.040 --> 02:10:45.540
what's
1629
02:10:46.835 --> 02:10:48.855
what an xPub basically is is
1630
02:10:49.555 --> 02:10:59.810
certain kind of information that lets you build up a hierarchy of addresses. And while it's used that to have just one secret that they need to take care of, so to speak.
1631
02:11:00.190 --> 02:11:00.690
And
1632
02:11:01.230 --> 02:11:03.890
then those use that so that they can generate
1633
02:11:04.585 --> 02:11:05.485
receiving addresses
1634
02:11:06.105 --> 02:11:07.165
easily without,
1635
02:11:08.105 --> 02:11:10.445
giving away too much secret information.
1636
02:11:10.825 --> 02:11:13.405
And services use XPub sometimes. So,
1637
02:11:14.320 --> 02:11:15.940
it's it's in a way also
1638
02:11:17.119 --> 02:11:19.300
you know, it's a hack for best practice.
1639
02:11:19.840 --> 02:11:21.460
You don't want to reuse addresses,
1640
02:11:22.079 --> 02:11:27.815
and you so so you force users to hand over an ex pub so that you on your side,
1641
02:11:28.355 --> 02:11:36.690
you become a trusted third party and you generate a new address for every transfer. And so someone else that is spying on the Bitcoin blockchain cannot see,
1642
02:11:37.389 --> 02:11:41.725
how much you are saving, for example. So I hope that somewhat makes sense. Go read the blog
1643
02:11:42.745 --> 02:11:43.645
post. Again,
1644
02:11:44.185 --> 02:11:49.565
4th glass of whiskey now. So if that doesn't make sense, I apologize. It's very late where I'm at.
1645
02:11:49.910 --> 02:12:00.465
Yeah. I mean, I'd first of all, we appreciate your time, Gigi. I mean, the the idea is, Randy McMillan, is is that you share the expoB with Swan, and you're you're trusting them with that privacy.
1646
02:12:01.645 --> 02:12:11.930
They Gigi designed the tool so that they don't actually receive the XPub. They just receive the generated addresses, and you can actually verify it because it's a it's a open source tool. It's a free open source tool.
1647
02:12:13.030 --> 02:12:21.275
But most people can't read code, so you should probably just, when you interact with that feature, you should just have a dedicated wallet. Best practice is to have a dedicated wallet,
1648
02:12:21.975 --> 02:12:26.349
that is like your Swan wallet. Right? And you just assume that every transaction in that wallet,
1649
02:12:27.610 --> 02:12:30.110
Swan can see. And someone else asked,
1650
02:12:30.570 --> 02:12:32.270
which this ties into Hakob
1651
02:12:32.809 --> 02:12:41.534
or Yaacob, I guess. I don't know how to pronounce your name. I apologize. Asked if CoinJoin truly clears the UTXO history, and, no, it doesn't. It's very obvious that you did a CoinJoin.
1652
02:12:41.920 --> 02:12:44.340
But if you if you if you used a good implementation
1653
02:12:44.960 --> 02:12:46.739
and you did it without making any mistakes,
1654
02:12:49.015 --> 02:12:51.755
difficult to to backtrack the hand joint happened.
1655
02:12:52.295 --> 02:12:56.715
So it kind of creates, like, a a a base slate. It, like, wipes the slate clean,
1656
02:12:57.270 --> 02:13:03.530
is the way I view it. It creates like a a a neutral property. It's just a normal Bitcoin transaction with no taint.
1657
02:13:04.070 --> 02:13:10.975
Yeah. The only taint being that CoinJoin has happened. But every other Bitcoin transaction has had the history of it ever till the beginning.
1658
02:13:11.595 --> 02:13:32.810
I I I would encourage everyone to look a little bit deeper into that topic and try to truly understand it because it's very enlightening in in the way that Bitcoin operates. Because the way that chain surveillance companies make sense of the transaction history is that they the only thing that they have is heuristics. They can only look at certain kinds of transactions and assume
1659
02:13:33.429 --> 02:13:56.765
who the parties involved where. And coin joints just break those kind of heuristics, and they are able to do that. Like, you you can't really track Bitcoin even though everything is public, but just the nature of the protocol is such that every single transaction is a smelting process. So you have multiple inputs and multiple outputs, and you can think of it as just gold coins going in somewhere and they are smelted and they're
1660
02:13:57.545 --> 02:14:03.005
re like, they they reappear at the end of the transaction as new coins in in the correct denomination.
1661
02:14:03.480 --> 02:14:06.300
And that's how Bitcoin works basically. And so most
1662
02:14:06.760 --> 02:14:07.260
transactions
1663
02:14:07.719 --> 02:14:08.219
have
1664
02:14:08.760 --> 02:14:18.045
a regular footprint, so to speak, or or you you can you can see that this is just like a regular transaction, like one person inter interacting with another one or like it has like,
1665
02:14:19.065 --> 02:14:24.920
a certain number of inputs, a certain number of outputs, and so on. And so surveillance companies assume that this was
1666
02:14:25.460 --> 02:14:36.935
a regular transaction, and this is like the receiving address, and this is the change address, and the party that initiated the transaction is still in charge of the change address and so on. And so you can build up a chain and you can kind of
1667
02:14:37.395 --> 02:14:38.535
with a high
1668
02:14:39.170 --> 02:14:40.870
with with a high confidence
1669
02:14:41.170 --> 02:14:41.990
say that,
1670
02:14:42.610 --> 02:14:54.665
here we have an entity that was in control of these coins and this is how the coins moved. And so you can you can see that in the blockchain. But keep in mind that those are all just heuristics and coin chains are certain kinds of transactions.
1671
02:14:56.489 --> 02:15:00.110
Like that. It's just a a very peculiar
1672
02:15:00.410 --> 02:15:01.550
transaction type,
1673
02:15:01.905 --> 02:15:07.025
and they're just, collaborative transactions of multiple parties. And this breaks the,
1674
02:15:08.065 --> 02:15:09.870
the common heuristics that most
1675
02:15:10.350 --> 02:15:18.610
chain analysis firms use because you cannot assume anymore that it was one person that did that, and then you're just lost. You cannot make sense of the transaction graph anymore.
1676
02:15:19.055 --> 02:15:24.755
It's it's it's purely a Bitcoin transaction that applies best practices that we know right now today.
1677
02:15:25.695 --> 02:15:33.150
And and it it it would be like to say not to use CoinJoin would be like to say that, like, we should just use Bitcoin way that that version 1,
1678
02:15:34.670 --> 02:15:35.410
use Bitcoin.
1679
02:15:35.735 --> 02:15:58.115
I I think you were going to say to say to not to use tranche CoinJoin is just use HTTP instead of HTTPS because we we have the same thing kind of in the Internet. And now it's just HTTPS and SSL and everything is like the standard. And if your browser screams at you, if the connection is not encrypted and I think we will see the same thing in Bitcoin. It it will just take time. And with the, protocol upgrades that are in the pipeline,
1680
02:15:58.735 --> 02:15:59.715
we won't have
1681
02:16:00.095 --> 02:16:00.915
to talk about
1682
02:16:01.540 --> 02:16:10.520
conjoined in that kind of depth anymore. I think in, like, I think in, like, 5 years time, it it we will have to deal with different topics, but not with that anymore that much.
1683
02:16:11.125 --> 02:16:12.185
I I think,
1684
02:16:12.805 --> 02:16:14.425
on a completely separate topic,
1685
02:16:15.365 --> 02:16:20.505
windshield time said everyone is getting a girlfriend LOL, which is like a growing meme.
1686
02:16:21.110 --> 02:16:26.330
I just in in all seriousness, like, you should absolutely, by all means, have a girlfriend, but
1687
02:16:27.190 --> 02:16:30.705
don't don't commit to her unless she goes through at least one bear cycle.
1688
02:16:31.325 --> 02:16:35.405
Preferably for preferably 2 bear cycles. You gotta you gotta test her out. You can't,
1689
02:16:36.170 --> 02:16:40.430
you can't you can't dedicate dedicate yourself to someone in in just one full cycle.
1690
02:16:42.490 --> 02:16:43.550
I like that wisdom.
1691
02:16:44.176 --> 02:16:45.775
With the dating wisdom from,
1692
02:16:46.415 --> 02:16:46.915
Bitcoiners
1693
02:16:47.216 --> 02:16:48.275
holding through volatility.
1694
02:16:50.016 --> 02:16:53.460
I mean, I think it if if she can if she can go through a bear market,
1695
02:16:55.120 --> 02:16:56.660
with a Bitcoiner, I mean,
1696
02:16:57.040 --> 02:17:02.135
is there is there any more dedication than that? Like, that's, like, some pretty massive Bitcoin or leverage right
1697
02:17:02.675 --> 02:17:06.055
there. I I was about to say that the true unsung heroes are
1698
02:17:06.755 --> 02:17:07.255
the
1699
02:17:07.635 --> 02:17:08.775
the wives and girlfriends
1700
02:17:09.250 --> 02:17:10.149
behind the Bitcoiners.
1701
02:17:11.410 --> 02:17:16.365
And I'm not saying that all the kind of some may love, but I still think that most are. And it's,
1702
02:17:17.085 --> 02:17:20.125
yeah. So I can speak from personal experience. It's
1703
02:17:20.925 --> 02:17:25.346
the the ride was very, very wild. And I you love to see it that
1704
02:17:26.351 --> 02:17:31.410
Bitcoiners tend to kind of you know, I think it's a low price time preference thing as well.
1705
02:17:31.790 --> 02:17:38.455
Bitcoiners tend to marry and make kids and stuff like that. And, you just love to see it, you know, like, we we need more of that.
1706
02:17:39.075 --> 02:17:40.615
I've been, I've been
1707
02:17:41.155 --> 02:17:42.375
trying out a new
1708
02:17:42.971 --> 02:17:43.690
tactic with,
1709
02:17:45.130 --> 02:17:46.910
with my friends who,
1710
02:17:48.490 --> 02:17:48.990
are
1711
02:17:49.610 --> 02:17:53.936
very much on the sideline or on the fence about, about Bitcoin. So,
1712
02:17:54.476 --> 02:17:56.016
if they're women,
1713
02:17:56.955 --> 02:17:57.695
I've been
1714
02:17:58.590 --> 02:18:00.609
prodding with this idea of
1715
02:18:00.910 --> 02:18:02.130
of this is how
1716
02:18:03.630 --> 02:18:04.609
gender inequity,
1717
02:18:05.630 --> 02:18:06.130
perpetuates
1718
02:18:08.515 --> 02:18:12.375
Because, you know, look around and look who are the people leaning into the risk
1719
02:18:14.570 --> 02:18:16.110
of of being early on Bitcoin.
1720
02:18:16.490 --> 02:18:19.551
And are you gonna let the are you gonna let the men have all the
1721
02:18:20.250 --> 02:18:22.190
reap all the rewards of that risk,
1722
02:18:23.274 --> 02:18:25.854
which has been a bit of
1723
02:18:26.234 --> 02:18:30.895
a touchy conversation to have with with some some of my NBA friends, you know,
1724
02:18:31.435 --> 02:18:32.095
and very
1725
02:18:33.020 --> 02:18:34.960
left leaning MBA culture.
1726
02:18:35.739 --> 02:18:38.239
That's a very provocative language but
1727
02:18:38.700 --> 02:18:47.715
rather effective. So I encourage people to to try some variant of that and see how it goes with, the women in your life who who are risk averse to Bitcoin still.
1728
02:18:48.100 --> 02:18:54.119
So what what you're saying is that all the girls should put their boobs on the table and start stacking? That's what you're saying?
1729
02:18:55.695 --> 02:18:57.315
In so many words, Gigi.
1730
02:18:59.375 --> 02:19:00.195
I love it.
1731
02:19:01.215 --> 02:19:02.995
I love both of you guys. The,
1732
02:19:03.860 --> 02:19:05.240
so Crip Loco asked,
1733
02:19:05.940 --> 02:19:11.885
what happened to LocalBitcoins? LocalBitcoins added KYC. Like, this is the problem. Like, if you have a centralized party, they're gonna add it.
1734
02:19:12.444 --> 02:19:21.505
He's asking, you know, what what why is there another company that's not providing an in person solution for buying Bitcoin? I think this is something that just long term
1735
02:19:22.910 --> 02:19:24.770
works itself out. Like, you you just
1736
02:19:25.230 --> 02:19:36.295
and we've seen this with the drug war. Like, you know people in your town or your area that can get you, you know, drugs for cash, and there there's gonna be this, like, p to p market for it that just grassroots
1737
02:19:36.835 --> 02:19:45.070
emerges in different places. And and if if you try and do a top down approach, you're always gonna get hit by regulators. You're always gonna get wrecked by regulators. And long term,
1738
02:19:45.450 --> 02:19:48.910
I mean, when we end in in this, like, circular economy type of situation,
1739
02:19:49.375 --> 02:19:58.755
you know, people aren't gonna be buying Bitcoin. They're gonna be earning it. People aren't gonna be selling it. They're gonna be spending it, and you won't even need this process of of trying to change shitty money to
1740
02:19:59.061 --> 02:19:59.881
to good money.
1741
02:20:00.820 --> 02:20:15.115
Yeah. So what what what Matt is trying to say is just find your local orange pill dealer and hit him up. And just if you have a stack, then maybe it's it's it's time for you to become 1. I don't know. I like that idea kind of like, I I I sold,
1742
02:20:15.495 --> 02:20:15.995
KYC
1743
02:20:16.550 --> 02:20:21.850
free Bitcoin from time to time just to onboard people. I think it's a it's a nice way to to just,
1744
02:20:22.310 --> 02:20:30.235
show someone how this works and get the feet wet. But it's it's also, you know, like, it most of the time, it doesn't take and people just
1745
02:20:30.775 --> 02:20:33.436
lose their wallets or something. So,
1746
02:20:34.310 --> 02:20:41.595
take that with a grain of salt. But I think I think all of those things will emerge, and we we we see that over and over and over again. And,
1747
02:20:41.915 --> 02:20:47.295
if the need is strong enough, then those kind of solutions will pop up. And people are very,
1748
02:20:47.675 --> 02:20:48.175
like,
1749
02:20:48.555 --> 02:20:50.311
smart with coming up
1750
02:20:50.930 --> 02:21:02.205
with solutions to those kind of problems, and I think we will just see new kind of things emerge. And, yeah, who who knows what's what's gonna happen in the next 2 or 3 years? I I I'm very bullish on
1751
02:21:03.305 --> 02:21:04.364
all kinds of
1752
02:21:04.820 --> 02:21:05.721
all kinds of,
1753
02:21:06.260 --> 02:21:10.520
non central ways to interact with Bitcoin and acquire Bitcoin and stuff like that.
1754
02:21:16.765 --> 02:21:21.345
Goji is asking, is it best to have a dedicated laptop computer to use with Cold Guard? Yes.
1755
02:21:22.260 --> 02:21:24.440
It's always better to have a dedicated computer.
1756
02:21:24.900 --> 02:21:29.895
The main risk is privacy, but you also have a little bit of funds risk you just want. It's just better to use a dedicated computer
1757
02:21:31.814 --> 02:21:39.595
if you can. Slowly level up your your your setup. My the guide I've been been shelling of my own is is we run bitcoin.com, and what's nice there is you can start
1758
02:21:40.680 --> 02:21:43.979
with maybe not a dedicated computer, and you can slowly upgrade yourself,
1759
02:21:44.680 --> 02:21:46.380
and you can upgrade yourself to multisig.
1760
02:21:47.320 --> 02:21:47.820
So
1761
02:21:48.186 --> 02:21:50.926
it's been about 2 hours and 20 minutes.
1762
02:21:51.705 --> 02:21:53.965
My lady, who is a very dedicated Bitcoiner,
1763
02:21:54.266 --> 02:21:57.645
is probably a little bit frustrated with me. We're in a nice cabin in the woods,
1764
02:21:58.221 --> 02:22:01.120
and I it's time for me to have dinner with her and appreciate her.
1765
02:22:01.820 --> 02:22:06.641
I wanna say a big thank you to all the freaks who who who joined us for the livestream.
1766
02:22:07.755 --> 02:22:09.535
This show is about you guys.
1767
02:22:10.315 --> 02:22:17.590
The whole idea of this show is and what I love about it is that you all participate and you get to ask questions, and and we get to riff off those questions.
1768
02:22:18.210 --> 02:22:21.109
So without you, the show is nothing. So thank you for attending.
1769
02:22:22.255 --> 02:22:25.315
Thank you for all the listeners who are listening to this after the fact.
1770
02:22:25.935 --> 02:22:27.395
We will have another show,
1771
02:22:28.015 --> 02:22:33.979
next week, same time. I I think I like this time better. Tell me if you don't like this time better. This is 22100
1772
02:22:34.280 --> 02:22:35.820
UTC, 5 PM EST.
1773
02:22:36.605 --> 02:22:45.265
I wanna do a a a big thanks to to Croesus BTC for joining us, our friend or Gigi for joining us. You can find them both on Twitter
1774
02:22:47.300 --> 02:22:47.800
at
1775
02:22:48.580 --> 02:22:49.960
their respective handles.
1776
02:22:51.460 --> 02:22:54.445
I'm I'm showing them on the screen right now. Dergigi is at
1777
02:22:55.485 --> 02:22:55.985
dergigi,
1778
02:22:57.485 --> 02:22:58.306
and cruisesbtc
1779
02:22:59.245 --> 02:22:59.745
is
1780
02:23:00.445 --> 02:23:00.945
atcro
1781
02:23:02.199 --> 02:23:02.699
esus_btc.
1782
02:23:05.159 --> 02:23:06.460
Thank you all for joining.
1783
02:23:07.080 --> 02:23:09.180
Stay humble, and stack sets.
1784
02:23:11.255 --> 02:23:12.555
Thanks for having us, Matt.
1785
02:23:13.495 --> 02:23:15.515
Yeah. Thanks for having us. That was great.
1786
02:23:26.585 --> 02:23:27.085
Hey,
1787
02:23:27.465 --> 02:23:27.965
moo.
1788
02:23:29.065 --> 02:23:31.885
It's funny how time just flies.
1789
02:23:33.961 --> 02:23:34.461
Yesterday,
1790
02:23:35.080 --> 02:23:36.461
we were just kids
1791
02:23:37.320 --> 02:23:38.700
hanging in the sky,
1792
02:23:39.240 --> 02:23:40.860
staying up all night.
1793
02:23:43.016 --> 02:23:43.516
Hey.
1794
02:23:44.695 --> 02:23:45.195
Hey.
1795
02:23:46.936 --> 02:23:50.476
Do you ever get a tear in your eye?
1796
02:23:51.410 --> 02:23:56.710
When you think about the time that God came down, I couldn't help myself.
1797
02:23:57.250 --> 02:23:59.590
I had to shine so bright.
1798
02:24:00.615 --> 02:24:01.355
I remember
1799
02:24:01.735 --> 02:24:03.595
that newborn baby
1800
02:24:05.095 --> 02:24:07.275
and the wise men that traveled
1801
02:24:07.655 --> 02:24:08.635
so far.
1802
02:24:09.270 --> 02:24:12.811
That's when I knew I was made for a reason.
1803
02:24:14.391 --> 02:24:16.170
I feel like the luckiest
1804
02:24:16.630 --> 02:24:17.130
star.
1805
02:24:29.530 --> 02:24:31.229
Hey. Hey. It's
1806
02:24:32.729 --> 02:24:35.310
funny how things have changed.
1807
02:24:37.065 --> 02:24:42.125
I wish that they could see the things we've seen before the colored lights
1808
02:24:42.665 --> 02:24:43.485
and the Christmas
1809
02:24:43.865 --> 02:24:44.365
tree.
1810
02:24:46.580 --> 02:24:47.080
Hey.
1811
02:24:50.580 --> 02:24:51.675
Hey. So many are
1812
02:25:17.910 --> 02:25:19.450
I feel like a lucky
1813
02:25:19.830 --> 02:25:20.490
day start.
1814
02:25:22.229 --> 02:25:22.729
Hey.
1815
02:25:30.815 --> 02:25:31.315
Hey.
1816
02:25:54.730 --> 02:25:55.230
All
1817
02:25:56.171 --> 02:25:56.671
is
1818
02:25:57.211 --> 02:25:57.711
bright.
1819
02:25:58.730 --> 02:25:59.471
I remember
1820
02:26:00.091 --> 02:26:00.910
that newborn
1821
02:26:01.290 --> 02:26:01.790
baby
1822
02:26:12.400 --> 02:26:15.141
I feel like the lucky is star.
1823
02:26:16.721 --> 02:26:17.221
Hey.
1824
02:26:43.305 --> 02:26:45.405
Love you, freaks. We'll see you next week.
NOTE
Transcription provided by Podhome.fm
Created: 3/17/2024 4:34:44 PM
Duration: 8807.628
Channels: 1
1
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:10.825
2
00:00:11.445 --> 00:00:12.905
prop up this cryptocurrency
3
00:00:13.445 --> 00:00:14.344
market, Jack?
4
00:00:15.550 --> 00:00:28.215
5
00:00:28.835 --> 00:00:30.535
operate as independent businesses
6
00:00:30.915 --> 00:00:50.265
and take care of themselves because they should because no one else does it for them And that's not fair. Russell wanted Bitcoin and they wouldn't allow it. So what I did is I built a consumer facing product where you don't have to go through HR, you don't have to go through payroll. It's in the hands of the individual. If the individual wants to allocate a percentage of their
7
00:00:50.725 --> 00:00:55.610
income of their paycheck and save it and protect their wealth and free themselves.
8
00:00:56.230 --> 00:01:28.595
They have the power to do that with this product and we don't need anyone's permission for that. So why is the NFL disassociating from this headline? I don't know, but I could tell you this. It doesn't surprise me one bit. That's right on brand with them and Russell's doing what's in his best interest and what's in his family's best interest and we're here to support that. And so, you know, I think Bitcoin is gonna continue to make headlines. It's the biggest thing that's ever happened while any of us have been alive. It's a transformative technology and it's ushering in one of the greatest wealth transfers of all time and it's ultimately hope for humanity.
9
00:01:29.295 --> 00:01:34.659
And so whether it's the NFL or whatever's next, it'll always be in the headlines. But in particular,
10
00:01:35.040 --> 00:01:39.620
the NFL's disassociation from what Russell is doing is, I mean, it's exemplifying
11
00:01:40.295 --> 00:01:47.195
of exactly the problem that Russell is trying to solve and I couldn't be more proud of Russell. This is actually all about him and less about me,
12
00:01:47.520 --> 00:02:02.985
but I'm happy and proud of my company in aiding towards his effort. I think it's a big deal for not only athletes, but for the everyday individual that's looking to protect themselves from asset inflation and the Federal Reserve's absolute must in printing cash.
13
00:02:04.005 --> 00:02:04.505
14
00:02:41.940 --> 00:02:46.920
Yo, freaks. It's your boy, Matt Odell, here for episode 3 of Citadel Dispatch.
15
00:02:47.460 --> 00:02:49.000
Very excited for this one.
16
00:02:49.525 --> 00:02:52.905
We have our good friends, Durjiji and Croesusbtc
17
00:02:53.605 --> 00:02:54.265
with us.
18
00:02:55.285 --> 00:03:00.810
We will be discussing the main topics we'll be discussing today is Shitcoin Regrets and Pricing the World in Sats,
19
00:03:01.270 --> 00:03:03.450
but we won't stop there. As you guys know,
20
00:03:04.470 --> 00:03:08.815
no topics are off limits here. So, we're looking forward to you guys in the audience,
21
00:03:09.275 --> 00:03:13.775
helping propel this conversation forward and seeing where it takes us. How's it going, guys?
22
00:03:14.430 --> 00:03:16.049
23
00:03:16.670 --> 00:03:19.730
24
00:03:21.665 --> 00:03:23.765
25
00:03:24.465 --> 00:03:26.725
26
00:03:27.505 --> 00:03:37.760
27
00:03:38.425 --> 00:03:41.965
all happening at the same time, and that's just how it seems to be happening.
28
00:03:42.265 --> 00:03:46.525
You know, as they say, grad gradually than suddenly. And we see, you know, like,
29
00:03:47.630 --> 00:03:50.349
players getting their salary in sets pretty much,
30
00:03:50.910 --> 00:03:58.295
in a roundabout way be it. But still, we see speculative attacks. We see, you know, streaming sets. We see all all kinds of beautiful
31
00:03:58.755 --> 00:03:59.255
things.
32
00:03:59.875 --> 00:04:02.915
33
00:04:03.315 --> 00:04:05.335
everyone what they're having to drink today.
34
00:04:06.340 --> 00:04:09.240
I expect everyone in the audience to let us know via text.
35
00:04:10.100 --> 00:04:16.245
36
00:04:17.185 --> 00:04:23.125
Yeah. I I messed up my time zone. Let's put it like that. And I I started 2 hours early, actually, and I popped open,
37
00:04:23.660 --> 00:04:27.199
a Taliska storm for you, Matt. So that's what I'm drinking.
38
00:04:30.699 --> 00:04:32.455
39
00:04:33.475 --> 00:04:33.975
40
00:04:34.595 --> 00:04:35.735
That's a good plop.
41
00:04:36.995 --> 00:04:39.175
42
00:04:40.035 --> 00:04:41.175
mezcal today.
43
00:04:42.350 --> 00:04:44.690
I have no idea how to pronounce it. Del Megui.
44
00:04:45.950 --> 00:04:48.770
Definitely just butchered it. That's perfect.
45
00:04:49.785 --> 00:04:50.185
But,
46
00:04:50.905 --> 00:04:51.965
mezcal is fantastic.
47
00:04:52.345 --> 00:04:53.324
I think it's like,
48
00:04:53.945 --> 00:04:57.405
it you know, I I think it's got a very Scotch like taste to me.
49
00:04:58.100 --> 00:04:59.800
50
00:05:00.980 --> 00:05:05.080
excuse me if I'm a little bit more buzzy than usual. So
51
00:05:05.905 --> 00:05:08.805
I'll try my best to stay sober for as long as I can.
52
00:05:09.185 --> 00:05:11.925
53
00:05:12.370 --> 00:05:16.069
54
00:05:17.490 --> 00:05:18.229
every day
55
00:05:18.690 --> 00:05:22.775
every day, every one of us wakes up no no matter where you are in the world, It's like,
56
00:05:24.195 --> 00:05:28.855
you know, Bitcoin is waking up with a large green boner in in in her pants.
57
00:05:29.235 --> 00:05:30.050
And it's just
58
00:05:31.009 --> 00:05:33.110
it's just wild to see. It's a wild ride.
59
00:05:34.210 --> 00:05:34.710
60
00:05:35.810 --> 00:05:36.310
Yeah.
61
00:05:36.849 --> 00:05:38.949
62
00:05:39.604 --> 00:05:43.145
there's just what was left in the fridge. I guess I finished my IPA,
63
00:05:43.925 --> 00:05:46.425
but my 6 pack of vlogging is yesterday. So
64
00:05:46.965 --> 00:05:47.945
is on the menu.
65
00:05:48.979 --> 00:05:51.879
66
00:05:54.020 --> 00:05:55.159
You know, I'm I'm,
67
00:05:55.705 --> 00:05:59.805
I'm I'm very excited as usual to to get going here on Citadel Dispatch.
68
00:06:00.585 --> 00:06:06.479
I I guess, you know, the best place to start seems, you know, seems to be this Russell Okung news.
69
00:06:06.960 --> 00:06:07.780
We have,
70
00:06:08.720 --> 00:06:14.065
the 1st NFL player that's that's being so called paid in stats, and I was wondering what your guys' take is here on
71
00:06:15.505 --> 00:06:18.545
72
00:06:20.145 --> 00:06:24.990
it was going to happen. And, of course, it it made a big splash and, it's a very strong
73
00:06:25.290 --> 00:06:26.270
PR move.
74
00:06:26.970 --> 00:06:35.475
But I think, you know, the way I like to think about that is that there are some people that have been living on a Bitcoin standard for quite some time that have been, you know,
75
00:06:35.935 --> 00:06:36.435
auditing,
76
00:06:37.889 --> 00:06:50.165
half their income, not if they still earn fiat, they're even people that are have been earning stocks for quite a while. And I just see the circle of people living on a Bitcoin standard expanding. And with Michael Saylor, for example, we saw,
77
00:06:50.865 --> 00:06:51.764
you know, a company
78
00:06:52.145 --> 00:06:52.965
moving into
79
00:06:53.419 --> 00:06:56.400
a similar direction. And, of course, there are smaller companies that,
80
00:06:57.180 --> 00:07:05.105
operate on sets as well. And so yeah. I think that's that's that's one way to think about it. That's just more and more people are,
81
00:07:06.125 --> 00:07:15.250
jumping on the train of the Bitcoin standard, and the Bitcoin standard is priced in sets. And so your salary or part of it is gonna be priced in sets, and you just love to see it.
82
00:07:16.910 --> 00:07:18.530
83
00:07:19.550 --> 00:07:24.895
I feel like the the last year has been the year of, like, 0 to 1 firsts
84
00:07:25.595 --> 00:07:29.535
for Bitcoin in in several ways. Like, we had Paul Tudor Jones
85
00:07:30.240 --> 00:07:32.100
being, like, the first big name investor
86
00:07:32.560 --> 00:07:34.260
coming out and saying, actually,
87
00:07:35.040 --> 00:07:36.100
Bitcoin is legit,
88
00:07:36.880 --> 00:07:40.255
and going to be the fastest horse. Then we had MicroStrategy,
89
00:07:41.675 --> 00:07:45.810
being the 1st corporate treasury, 1st public company, corporate treasury to say
90
00:07:46.370 --> 00:07:49.750
we're are going to choose Bitcoin over dollars,
91
00:07:50.690 --> 00:07:52.070
and that set a precedent
92
00:07:52.690 --> 00:07:54.710
just like Paul Tudor Jones set a precedent.
93
00:07:55.615 --> 00:07:57.075
And we've we've been
94
00:07:57.615 --> 00:07:58.915
witnessing those precedents
95
00:07:59.615 --> 00:08:00.755
turn into a triple,
96
00:08:01.455 --> 00:08:02.995
of more people following
97
00:08:03.690 --> 00:08:08.910
suit and, you know, the the institutional buying over the last 3 months has
98
00:08:09.690 --> 00:08:13.805
been, you know, a direct follow on from those precedents.
99
00:08:14.585 --> 00:08:17.165
And then now with Russell, we are seeing
100
00:08:17.785 --> 00:08:18.365
a first
101
00:08:19.060 --> 00:08:22.280
with, a totally different type of adoption than
102
00:08:22.580 --> 00:08:27.880
than, you know, anything else we've we've seen before. It's like big name, high salary individuals
103
00:08:28.855 --> 00:08:30.955
demanding to be be paid in Bitcoin.
104
00:08:31.335 --> 00:08:32.475
And now the infrastructure
105
00:08:33.495 --> 00:08:37.035
of Stripe making that possible has this multiplicative
106
00:08:37.415 --> 00:08:43.089
effect of, like, the possibilities of Bitcoin adoption are so much greater now than they were 4 years ago.
107
00:08:43.470 --> 00:08:43.970
And
108
00:08:44.830 --> 00:08:48.835
and now these new precedents are possible and we'll see what what sort of,
109
00:08:49.555 --> 00:08:50.055
followers,
110
00:08:51.315 --> 00:08:53.495
follow suit from Russell's News.
111
00:08:55.395 --> 00:08:56.535
112
00:08:57.510 --> 00:09:01.529
you know, as as Gigi said, a lot of us a lot of us have been
113
00:09:02.630 --> 00:09:05.265
basically doing what Russ is doing now,
114
00:09:06.125 --> 00:09:08.225
including Russ himself, presumably,
115
00:09:09.165 --> 00:09:16.740
you know, taking your fiat paycheck and basically using it to to dollar cost average into Bitcoin, to stack into Bitcoin as much as possible.
116
00:09:17.440 --> 00:09:17.940
But
117
00:09:18.785 --> 00:09:23.685
this is more of a it feels more of like a signaling mechanism to me. It feels like something that really,
118
00:09:24.464 --> 00:09:37.795
flips a switch in people's heads, you know, that that you're getting paid in better money. You're not getting paid like, no one gets paid in Apple stock or something. It takes it away from being like an investment. It it makes it more tangible. And and and, really, if you're not pricing
119
00:09:38.735 --> 00:09:40.675
everything in your life and sats already,
120
00:09:41.935 --> 00:09:42.995
you're short Bitcoin.
121
00:09:43.454 --> 00:09:43.954
But,
122
00:09:45.330 --> 00:09:52.950
it it's good to see, you know, one step towards that to that ultimate goal. Right? Because I I think I think the the ultimate
123
00:09:54.275 --> 00:10:07.560
direction that Bitcoiners end up at is that they realize that everything is priced in Sats, your take home pay is priced in Sats like you said, this is best basically, your worth on a yearly basis, and that goes down year over year over year forever.
124
00:10:08.899 --> 00:10:11.720
125
00:10:12.705 --> 00:10:20.940
making several investments, for example, in a haircutting machine and you start to cut your own hair because every time you you go to a hairdresser, it's just millions and millions of sets.
126
00:10:21.420 --> 00:10:21.920
So,
127
00:10:22.620 --> 00:10:25.920
yeah. I think this this calculation that the con is still doing,
128
00:10:26.300 --> 00:10:28.640
more and more people are waking up to that. And,
129
00:10:29.714 --> 00:10:30.855
yeah, as as,
130
00:10:31.634 --> 00:10:36.454
Vic Contina also likes to say, you know, he he he's he's been saying it since forever that,
131
00:10:37.010 --> 00:10:41.110
what we're witnessing is the whole world being repriced in sets. And and,
132
00:10:41.890 --> 00:10:42.290
yeah, I,
133
00:10:43.170 --> 00:10:51.665
you can think of it as the great reset, so to speak. And it's it's it's just beautiful to to see Did that work yesterday or 2 days ago?
134
00:10:52.080 --> 00:11:00.245
That this is actually happening, you know, and it's it's happening as you say. Like, the the Bitcoin hive mind is more and more expanding. And at first, it was, like,
135
00:11:00.964 --> 00:11:09.065
2, 3 crazy people on Bitcoin Twitter that that were just, like, you know, sell your chairs and cut your own hair and so on and so forth. And I I I think
136
00:11:09.430 --> 00:11:26.360
that the circle of of people that understand it will just expand and expand. And it it's in part because of just the general macro situation and people just realizing that MoneyPrint TO GO BR won't stop anytime soon. And on the other hand, I think it's also because there's just so much information,
137
00:11:26.980 --> 00:11:33.560
pure Bitcoin only information out there. You can really educate yourself quite quickly as compared to, let's say, like, 2015.
138
00:11:34.305 --> 00:11:38.805
And it's it's really distilled, and it's also distilled in memes. And it's just
139
00:11:39.185 --> 00:11:39.925
it's just
140
00:11:40.305 --> 00:11:43.285
iteration upon iteration upon iteration. And
141
00:11:44.209 --> 00:11:55.315
in the end, you know, I think what most people will have a problem with is that it almost sounds too easy. You know? Like, just stack sets stack sets until hyperbitcoinization
142
00:11:55.695 --> 00:11:59.714
143
00:12:00.495 --> 00:12:00.995
wealth.
144
00:12:01.329 --> 00:12:07.269
145
00:12:07.810 --> 00:12:09.910
especially, you know, my yuppie people,
146
00:12:11.125 --> 00:12:18.970
are not there yet. It's just too good to be true, but that's what we're that's what's happening. That's what we're watching play out in front of us.
147
00:12:21.110 --> 00:12:22.810
148
00:12:23.350 --> 00:12:25.850
learning as as a host here. This is my
149
00:12:26.515 --> 00:12:29.575
3rd episode of Citadel Dispatch, and I I kind of
150
00:12:29.955 --> 00:12:31.095
fucked up the order.
151
00:12:31.555 --> 00:12:34.615
I guess, like, I'm supposed to in the beginning of the show,
152
00:12:36.420 --> 00:12:39.560
introduce you guys and have you guys, like, explain to the audience,
153
00:12:40.180 --> 00:12:41.480
who the fuck you are.
154
00:12:42.019 --> 00:12:42.519
So
155
00:12:43.220 --> 00:12:45.480
I guess I guess let's start with Gigi. Gigi,
156
00:12:45.955 --> 00:12:49.175
I've known you for a while now. You're I consider you a good friend.
157
00:12:50.595 --> 00:12:52.215
What's the deal with you and Bitcoin?
158
00:12:53.320 --> 00:12:54.540
159
00:12:55.160 --> 00:12:56.700
Man, where to start even.
160
00:12:57.480 --> 00:12:59.339
I'm I'm a super slow learner.
161
00:12:59.960 --> 00:13:00.940
I think that's
162
00:13:01.645 --> 00:13:03.825
that's what I learned from Bitcoin. So
163
00:13:04.285 --> 00:13:13.700
in one way or another, I I've been in touch with Bitcoin for quite a while, but it took me so long to really dive in and understand it. And I think my biggest problem was,
164
00:13:14.660 --> 00:13:19.800
that I come from a tech background, and I studied computer science, and I just didn't
165
00:13:20.175 --> 00:13:24.755
I just didn't see the money in it. I only saw the tech, and so I got lured into,
166
00:13:25.535 --> 00:13:28.355
all kinds of shit kinds, like every shit kind under the sun.
167
00:13:28.730 --> 00:13:32.990
And I just didn't understand what it's all about and this that this is actually a monetary
168
00:13:33.370 --> 00:13:54.475
revolution. And, once I understood that, I kind of wanted to tell other people about it because I thought it's kind of important, and that led me to writing a bunch of articles. And those articles actually turned into a book called 21 Lessons. And I think that's what most people know me for. So I'm the author of 21 Lessons, and you can read the book online for free and also listen to the audiobook online for free on 21 lessons com.
169
00:13:58.394 --> 00:14:02.175
170
00:14:02.690 --> 00:14:04.950
171
00:14:05.410 --> 00:14:24.339
But I I'm not sure if I want to just harp on and harp on. So I'm I'm now I'm now in Bitcoin full time. I did I did, a bunch of other things in the Bitcoin space. I started Bitcoin Resources. I wrote a bunch of other articles. I'm working on the second book. I'm now part of the Swan Bitcoin team, and I'm doing engineering there and also What's the deal with that? What are you doing? Yeah.
172
00:14:25.519 --> 00:14:26.980
Yeah. So I'm I'm working,
173
00:14:27.805 --> 00:14:29.185
full stack pretty much.
174
00:14:30.045 --> 00:14:35.824
Yeah. It's it's not too long ago that I joined, so I'm I'm still kind of feeling like the new guy,
175
00:14:36.204 --> 00:14:55.685
but it's it's getting better every day. And, yeah, I have the privilege to work in Bitcoin full time, and I love every minute of it. And I'm very grateful, to be part of this one because I think auto DCA is the best thing you can do for yourself and also for for, like, a peaceful and less critical transition towards a global Bitcoin standard.
176
00:14:56.170 --> 00:14:56.670
And,
177
00:14:57.529 --> 00:14:58.970
Yeah. Corin and Jan,
178
00:14:59.370 --> 00:14:59.870
started
179
00:15:00.410 --> 00:15:01.069
Swan Bitcoin
180
00:15:01.690 --> 00:15:05.265
not too long ago. I think I I guess it went live in March
181
00:15:06.145 --> 00:15:07.125
last year, so
182
00:15:07.985 --> 00:15:09.765
not even a year old. And,
183
00:15:10.625 --> 00:15:14.360
yeah, I I just reached out and was like, if you're just looking for,
184
00:15:15.140 --> 00:15:17.480
coders that know that know their way around
185
00:15:17.860 --> 00:15:23.080
code bases and tech and stuff, I'm willing to help. And so, yeah, they they were happy to
186
00:15:23.524 --> 00:15:27.625
to have me on board. And ever since yeah. I'm I'm
187
00:15:28.644 --> 00:15:30.660
I'm I'm chilling in the pond with the guys.
188
00:15:31.060 --> 00:15:35.639
And the Swan team is going strong. And we're trying our best to educate people and also
189
00:15:36.339 --> 00:15:39.240
provide easy and low fee services to,
190
00:15:39.855 --> 00:15:42.035
yeah, to basically auto DCA and buy Bitcoin.
191
00:15:42.735 --> 00:15:44.675
192
00:15:45.295 --> 00:15:47.075
Crow, what's the deal with you?
193
00:15:48.060 --> 00:15:51.360
194
00:15:52.779 --> 00:15:56.160
first came at all this from like a technology investment
195
00:15:57.975 --> 00:15:58.475
lens
196
00:15:59.095 --> 00:15:59.595
and
197
00:16:02.135 --> 00:16:04.555
heard about it from like more technical classmates.
198
00:16:06.080 --> 00:16:09.380
Business school actually got me interested in Ethereum,
199
00:16:10.320 --> 00:16:11.140
back then.
200
00:16:11.520 --> 00:16:12.740
And so I
201
00:16:13.514 --> 00:16:13.834
took the
202
00:16:15.035 --> 00:16:16.714
someone recently described it as,
203
00:16:17.675 --> 00:16:18.175
the
204
00:16:18.635 --> 00:16:20.415
the the most painful path to Bitcoin,
205
00:16:22.740 --> 00:16:24.680
AKA going through alt coins first.
206
00:16:26.820 --> 00:16:30.965
I was interested in Ethereum and then that led to a whole bunch of other alt coins
207
00:16:31.425 --> 00:16:32.545
in in the last,
208
00:16:33.265 --> 00:16:34.165
major cycle,
209
00:16:34.785 --> 00:16:40.660
2016, 17. That was what I was doing. Rode that up and then rode it all the way down in 2018,
210
00:16:42.240 --> 00:16:45.380
and was frustrated as all hell about, like, why were my
211
00:16:45.705 --> 00:16:47.965
wonderful technology altcoins underperforming
212
00:16:49.865 --> 00:16:51.645
and was forced to finally
213
00:16:52.105 --> 00:16:57.490
pay attention to these lunatic Bitcoin maximalists who had been ranting and raving about
214
00:16:58.029 --> 00:16:59.250
about, you know, everything,
215
00:16:59.709 --> 00:17:01.329
to anyone who would listen,
216
00:17:02.065 --> 00:17:06.085
and also telling everybody to, you know, who was in altcoins to
217
00:17:06.465 --> 00:17:06.965
to,
218
00:17:07.585 --> 00:17:09.925
go curl up and die or kind of sentiment.
219
00:17:11.520 --> 00:17:16.020
And so finally got around to reading the Bitcoin standard and realized that
220
00:17:16.400 --> 00:17:20.085
that actually this rabbit hole goes way deeper, way way deeper.
221
00:17:20.465 --> 00:17:21.125
In fact,
222
00:17:21.505 --> 00:17:23.045
undoes all of the MBA
223
00:17:23.665 --> 00:17:24.965
education and,
224
00:17:25.665 --> 00:17:26.725
management consulting
225
00:17:28.330 --> 00:17:30.910
knowledge that I received in my career
226
00:17:31.450 --> 00:17:32.830
and had to
227
00:17:33.930 --> 00:17:39.185
get deep enough to to understand that my my understanding of economics and how,
228
00:17:40.125 --> 00:17:43.185
central banking works and how money works was completely wrong.
229
00:17:43.769 --> 00:17:47.070
And, that Bitcoin is on an inevitable path to
230
00:17:47.690 --> 00:17:49.549
to overtake those institutions
231
00:17:49.850 --> 00:17:52.990
and replace them as a base layer layer of our civilization.
232
00:17:54.525 --> 00:17:56.125
So that's sort of been my arc,
233
00:17:56.525 --> 00:17:57.585
to get to Bitcoin
234
00:17:57.965 --> 00:18:03.210
but it started by, you know, being a greedy technology investor trying to make a buck
235
00:18:03.770 --> 00:18:04.590
off of, you know,
236
00:18:04.890 --> 00:18:06.510
these these new forms of digital
237
00:18:06.970 --> 00:18:07.470
money
238
00:18:07.850 --> 00:18:10.669
and and payment rails that I thought Ethereum,
239
00:18:12.185 --> 00:18:13.245
was going to be.
240
00:18:18.665 --> 00:18:20.125
241
00:18:21.169 --> 00:18:22.309
We appreciate it.
242
00:18:23.009 --> 00:18:23.509
I,
243
00:18:24.289 --> 00:18:30.629
I kinda love that I just put the price ticker at the start of this episode and it's just been it's just been pumping. So,
244
00:18:31.525 --> 00:18:33.625
you're not really a freak if you're not trying to,
245
00:18:33.925 --> 00:18:38.985
you know, stack to increase that the price over 35 k while we're live on air here.
246
00:18:40.250 --> 00:18:47.550
247
00:18:52.465 --> 00:18:55.365
248
00:18:56.385 --> 00:18:58.770
I wanna talk about shitcoin regrets.
249
00:19:00.610 --> 00:19:01.510
I don't know.
250
00:19:01.890 --> 00:19:10.885
And then, yeah, and then we'll go back to pricing the world in sats maybe, and then we'll continue from there. Maybe that'll be the plan, unless someone in in the audience hits us with some,
251
00:19:11.985 --> 00:19:17.524
you know, really bold question or something, and then we'll just go on some really long tangent. Or if the price just pumps,
252
00:19:18.190 --> 00:19:23.170
then we might just lose focus and just I'll just pull up a chart and we can stare at it together.
253
00:19:24.895 --> 00:19:27.075
So Normal. Shitcoin regrets.
254
00:19:27.695 --> 00:19:30.515
I I think most people come in
255
00:19:31.750 --> 00:19:35.450
through the Shitcoin side. It it maybe recently it's different,
256
00:19:36.150 --> 00:19:43.115
because we have this, you know, expansive, like, Bitcoin only network almost that has that been has been nurtured on Bitcoin, Twitter,
257
00:19:43.495 --> 00:19:48.555
and adjacent platforms, and and we have all these podcasts now, and we have stuff like 21 lessons.
258
00:19:49.480 --> 00:19:53.340
We have we have businesses that have basically sprung up like Swan,
259
00:19:53.960 --> 00:19:57.900
and Cash App that are trying to basically leverage that Bitcoin only concept,
260
00:19:58.925 --> 00:20:04.145
as as, you know, as almost a brand building and marketing exercise that that didn't exist last cycle.
261
00:20:04.525 --> 00:20:12.410
But previous to that, a lot of people came in, through shared coins, and then they presumably got burned. They touched the fire like a like a little child,
262
00:20:12.950 --> 00:20:15.290
and then that's when they learned their lesson. Right?
263
00:20:15.845 --> 00:20:16.345
So
264
00:20:17.125 --> 00:20:29.580
I I I think it'd be helpful to people coming in now because they come in now, and their first question, no matter what, everyone's first question is almost always, well, what about this one? Is maybe I missed the boat. Am I too late to buy Bitcoin?
265
00:20:32.575 --> 00:20:34.815
266
00:20:36.015 --> 00:20:36.515
Yeah.
267
00:20:36.895 --> 00:20:39.315
I think like the the refrain that
268
00:20:40.415 --> 00:20:45.970
Bitcoiners need to focus on and that, that exists for us now. And I think is extremely powerful
269
00:20:46.350 --> 00:20:47.090
is that,
270
00:20:47.390 --> 00:20:48.130
you know,
271
00:20:48.510 --> 00:20:50.930
absolute scarcity is a one time invention
272
00:20:51.935 --> 00:20:53.955
and that's Bitcoin and any,
273
00:20:54.495 --> 00:20:55.475
any copy
274
00:20:56.095 --> 00:20:58.915
of a, of a system of digital scarcity
275
00:20:59.520 --> 00:21:01.540
is by definition, not scarce
276
00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:02.500
because
277
00:21:03.120 --> 00:21:09.485
you can what's the marginal cost of creating an additional copy after that? Nothing. So there's there's no
278
00:21:10.105 --> 00:21:13.405
scarcity in any copies of the
279
00:21:14.105 --> 00:21:17.930
first and only instance of digital scarcity that mattered,
280
00:21:18.790 --> 00:21:19.290
Bitcoin.
281
00:21:20.070 --> 00:21:23.195
And and that kind of like philosophical framing of it
282
00:21:23.514 --> 00:21:24.255
didn't exist
283
00:21:24.634 --> 00:21:28.014
a few years ago. In fact, the thing the article that
284
00:21:28.554 --> 00:21:30.654
really put me over the edge on, like,
285
00:21:31.050 --> 00:21:33.790
no altcoin matters at all whatsoever forever,
286
00:21:34.970 --> 00:21:35.790
was Breedlove's
287
00:21:36.410 --> 00:21:40.030
the number 0 in Bitcoin, which was only released like a year ago.
288
00:21:41.725 --> 00:21:46.705
And so, yeah, that it's it's amazing to me that Bitcoin's been around like 12 years now and
289
00:21:48.020 --> 00:21:56.115
we only just figured out the the way to articulate what makes it so special, but now we have it and now we can focus on that and
290
00:21:56.434 --> 00:21:58.695
and nip that question in the bud when
291
00:21:59.315 --> 00:22:02.615
new coiners are trying to find something that can,
292
00:22:02.915 --> 00:22:05.815
you know, something new that they can outpace Bitcoin with.
293
00:22:08.830 --> 00:22:12.769
294
00:22:13.205 --> 00:22:16.505
So to anyone listening to this who still
295
00:22:16.885 --> 00:22:18.025
believes that,
296
00:22:18.965 --> 00:22:22.809
you know, something else will overtake Bitcoin or,
297
00:22:23.530 --> 00:22:25.710
it's it might be worth to diversify
298
00:22:26.730 --> 00:22:29.470
in the quote unquote cryptocurrency space or something.
299
00:22:30.175 --> 00:22:31.155
It it takes
300
00:22:31.695 --> 00:22:40.600
a long time and a lot of deep thinking and a lot of studying also of, monetary history and stuff like that to really understand it and also to understand the fundamentals
301
00:22:41.140 --> 00:22:42.919
why this is true. And
302
00:22:43.380 --> 00:22:43.880
the
303
00:22:44.260 --> 00:22:48.424
the I think that's also the reason why Bitcoin has just just came up with,
304
00:22:49.445 --> 00:22:51.304
shorthand solutions and also
305
00:22:52.005 --> 00:22:52.505
basically
306
00:22:53.205 --> 00:23:04.140
telling people to just have fun staying poor if they are not willing to learn and listen themselves. And that's I I I love how this is, by the way, like, it's it's a distillation of the original Stoshi quote. You know, like, if if you don't get it or,
307
00:23:05.365 --> 00:23:09.545
don't want to believe me, then I don't have the time to explain it to you. So the
308
00:23:09.845 --> 00:23:17.180
I I forget the exact quote, but that's that's basically what what he said. And and so that's basically what Bitcoiners are saying now as well. But
309
00:23:17.480 --> 00:23:19.180
I I also think that it's important
310
00:23:19.720 --> 00:23:29.425
that to point out that this actually can be understood. So I was at a place not too long ago where I didn't understand it at all. And I think I understand it now quite well. Why why it is the case that
311
00:23:29.940 --> 00:23:32.980
Bitcoin is a a 0 to 1 one invention and the
312
00:23:33.380 --> 00:23:37.240
it it is also path dependent invention. Like, it it can be done again. And,
313
00:23:37.985 --> 00:23:41.365
as Krishna said, it's like digital scarcity
314
00:23:41.745 --> 00:23:43.685
only happens once. And Bitcoin
315
00:23:43.985 --> 00:23:45.605
put the cherry on top by
316
00:23:47.090 --> 00:23:47.990
choosing the
317
00:23:48.290 --> 00:23:49.030
the terminal
318
00:23:49.890 --> 00:23:54.710
the terminal inflation rate of 0%. So we we not only have digital scarcity, we have
319
00:23:55.044 --> 00:24:02.985
absolute scarcity, like perfect digital scarcity. We never had that before and and and we will never have that again because you can you can think about it in a way that
320
00:24:04.090 --> 00:24:08.750
the problem that Bitcoin solved, like the problem that Satoshi solved is a very, very peculiar one. Because
321
00:24:09.450 --> 00:24:10.510
you cannot solve
322
00:24:11.414 --> 00:24:21.034
the like, you cannot invent a form of information that cannot be copied. You can always copy information, and you can always copy it perfectly because you always have error correction.
323
00:24:21.640 --> 00:24:58.549
If you can read something, like, if you can read a certain kind of information, you can always copy it. That's just the way information works. And this will always be true, and this is also true in Bitcoin. Like every single part in Bitcoin can be copied. The the ledger is copied all the time. The blocks are copied. Your private key can be copied. You can have, like, 10 different backups in 10 different locations of your private key. Like, nothing is unique in Bitcoin in in the sense of you it cannot be copied, so to speak. The only thing that can't be copied in Bitcoin is an NGU technology. That's what can't be copied. And it's it's really difficult to understand that because what Bitcoin does is it it it builds a protocol, it builds a network that makes invalid copies useless.
324
00:24:58.929 --> 00:25:01.590
So it only takes care of valid copies
325
00:25:01.970 --> 00:25:02.470
and
326
00:25:03.010 --> 00:25:29.055
it it does it in a way that you produce this ledger and this ledger the entries in the ledger are what what are absolutely scarce. And so creating a second ledger that has the same properties is completely senseless because why would you have 2 letters? Like, why why would you it it it it doesn't make sense. And it's it's also you know, you have all the network effects and everything else. It's like talking a different language and and so on and so forth. And I think what's what's important to understand for for newcomers is for other inventions,
327
00:25:29.690 --> 00:25:31.950
it's it's not that it's not that all inventions
328
00:25:32.490 --> 00:25:34.430
tend towards 1. It's also not that all
329
00:25:34.970 --> 00:25:35.470
networks,
330
00:25:36.410 --> 00:25:59.835
tend to trend towards 1. But value does, you know. You can't it doesn't make sense or you it just can't park value in different things. You always have to diversify. You cannot. If if you have a regular file, you can burn it on a CD. If you kids still know what it is, you can put it on a USB stick and you can upload it to some online service and you can upload it to another online service and you can store it on your hard drive and you can print it out and so on and so forth.
331
00:26:00.135 --> 00:26:13.325
But with value, that's not true. You have to decide. You you you either buy a house or you buy stock or you invested in whiskey or something. And and so so money is way, way stronger in that regard than
332
00:26:13.784 --> 00:26:20.520
almost all other things. And money is also a language and and and, yeah, like a communication layer and so on. And
333
00:26:21.060 --> 00:26:25.320
so the the effects that are behind Bitcoin are insanely strong.
334
00:26:25.700 --> 00:26:26.200
And
335
00:26:27.375 --> 00:26:29.794
I I I would I would also point out that
336
00:26:31.054 --> 00:26:35.554
all all the best word the the the buzz words in Bitcoin are so horrible, like how it's cryptocurrency,
337
00:26:36.060 --> 00:26:43.735
even though it doesn't even use encryption in the 1st place. You know, it's just digital sign signatures and and hashes. So nothing is encrypted in Bitcoin ever.
338
00:26:44.274 --> 00:26:44.774
So
339
00:26:45.794 --> 00:26:53.710
it it uses cryptography. Yeah. That's right. But a lot of people talk about, you know, like encrypted money and stuff like that, but that's just not the case. And
340
00:26:54.410 --> 00:26:55.390
the the basic problem
341
00:26:55.850 --> 00:26:57.470
that Bitcoin solves is timing.
342
00:26:57.930 --> 00:27:02.565
And, and I think a lot of people just don't know that and don't don't realize that. And
343
00:27:03.265 --> 00:27:09.365
so so they just get hung up in all kinds of shit coinery in terms of looking into
344
00:27:10.460 --> 00:27:16.480
supply chain stuff and Internet of things stuff and so on and so forth. And they all miss that
345
00:27:16.860 --> 00:27:17.920
you cannot connect
346
00:27:19.045 --> 00:27:22.085
the digital world with the physical world. And this is act
347
00:27:22.805 --> 00:27:24.585
exactly what Bitcoin solved. So
348
00:27:24.885 --> 00:27:27.680
Bitcoin solved the Oracle problem and nothing and,
349
00:27:28.140 --> 00:27:28.640
like,
350
00:27:29.580 --> 00:27:34.320
everyone who's working in cryptocurrency, quote unquote, doesn't understand it. Yep. Yep.
351
00:27:35.265 --> 00:27:37.445
352
00:27:37.745 --> 00:27:40.245
that the the real world cannot be connected.
353
00:27:41.825 --> 00:27:43.684
So any cryptocurrency project
354
00:27:44.690 --> 00:27:45.429
trying to
355
00:27:46.049 --> 00:27:47.909
to bring the blockchain to
356
00:27:49.010 --> 00:27:52.070
supply chain, it it doesn't make any sense ultimately.
357
00:27:53.425 --> 00:27:55.765
And and Gigi, I think that gets back to
358
00:27:56.545 --> 00:27:58.165
like like the the root,
359
00:27:59.105 --> 00:28:03.610
problem that that I fell into and I think a lot of NewCoiners fall into
360
00:28:04.230 --> 00:28:05.610
the flawed thinking
361
00:28:06.550 --> 00:28:08.490
is that we apply the
362
00:28:08.870 --> 00:28:09.929
the framework of
363
00:28:10.895 --> 00:28:13.475
you know, new technology investment
364
00:28:14.175 --> 00:28:15.715
that has been
365
00:28:16.095 --> 00:28:16.595
the
366
00:28:17.535 --> 00:28:23.409
it's the established wisdom after a half century of of of tech growth in,
367
00:28:23.789 --> 00:28:27.730
you know, in the world and in Silicon Valley with hardware and then eventually
368
00:28:28.715 --> 00:28:29.855
software and the Internet,
369
00:28:31.434 --> 00:28:36.735
diversifying and, you know, betting on different projects and teams and all that. That's the winning formula.
370
00:28:37.460 --> 00:28:40.520
And, and that that's been true in all tech investing
371
00:28:41.140 --> 00:28:42.040
until now.
372
00:28:42.500 --> 00:28:43.480
And I think that
373
00:28:43.860 --> 00:28:44.919
in new corners
374
00:28:45.445 --> 00:28:47.705
are likely to bring in that,
375
00:28:49.285 --> 00:28:51.385
that style of thinking that
376
00:28:51.845 --> 00:28:56.300
idea about how to win when investing in a in a new technology.
377
00:28:57.480 --> 00:28:58.860
That's certainly what I did.
378
00:28:59.160 --> 00:28:59.660
And
379
00:29:00.680 --> 00:29:02.540
I guess it's it's it's our
380
00:29:02.904 --> 00:29:04.365
opportunity. It's our responsibility
381
00:29:04.825 --> 00:29:05.645
to try to,
382
00:29:06.024 --> 00:29:09.085
you know, point them in the right direction as soon as possible.
383
00:29:09.625 --> 00:29:10.765
And, you know,
384
00:29:12.360 --> 00:29:14.380
in in in part these these means
385
00:29:15.080 --> 00:29:16.380
of knowledge that
386
00:29:16.840 --> 00:29:19.020
the corners have started to focus in on,
387
00:29:19.895 --> 00:29:22.795
you know, absolute scarcity is the only thing that matters and,
388
00:29:23.735 --> 00:29:26.475
and all of the other valuable Bitcoin means,
389
00:29:27.260 --> 00:29:29.920
you know, infinity divided by 21,000,000
390
00:29:30.620 --> 00:29:34.080
and and all that, that's true and and it's for different reasons than
391
00:29:35.275 --> 00:29:40.015
than anything that was true with the Internet or with hardware or software before that.
392
00:29:40.795 --> 00:29:41.295
And
393
00:29:41.600 --> 00:29:47.860
I think that's the the trap that newcomers fall into, but it's it's where we need to focus to try to steer them away from.
394
00:29:50.505 --> 00:29:57.725
395
00:29:58.559 --> 00:30:00.580
while he was while he was talking.
396
00:30:01.520 --> 00:30:04.740
Freaks, I was disappointed in you. I I thought you had him there.
397
00:30:05.679 --> 00:30:06.419
I think,
398
00:30:06.995 --> 00:30:10.434
you know, there's a couple things to unpack here. I think one of the big things,
399
00:30:11.395 --> 00:30:16.135
which Gigi mentioned is that proof of work, I think, is, like, the real innovation here, and people
400
00:30:18.450 --> 00:30:23.830
distributed proof of work. Verifiable proof of work is the real innovation here, and so many people miss that element.
401
00:30:25.170 --> 00:30:26.875
I think, ultimately, at
402
00:30:27.175 --> 00:30:28.235
the end of the day,
403
00:30:29.175 --> 00:30:36.320
people should realize that pretty I think every asset on on earth will trend to 0 in terms of Bitcoin, not just Altcoins.
404
00:30:38.140 --> 00:30:38.640
And
405
00:30:39.500 --> 00:30:42.400
and and so so yes. Like,
406
00:30:43.125 --> 00:30:52.184
before you make any kind of investment in general, like, you should, you know, do your own research and figure things out. But I think for a lot of people, they won't have to get past that aspect.
407
00:30:53.029 --> 00:30:55.130
They don't know how our current money system works.
408
00:30:55.669 --> 00:31:00.330
If they hear that and they see over the next 5 years it continue to happen because it keeps happening,
409
00:31:01.365 --> 00:31:03.384
then they they'll figure it out eventually.
410
00:31:03.764 --> 00:31:04.264
And
411
00:31:05.044 --> 00:31:10.710
last but not least, I think, you know, there's a lot of talk about memeness, meme that, you know, and then kind of tails back into,
412
00:31:11.970 --> 00:31:16.470
pricing things in Sats. How do we meme, you know, Sats the standard into being the standard?
413
00:31:17.345 --> 00:31:22.885
And I think, you know, a good meme is based in reality to begin with. It's not like memes created this reality.
414
00:31:23.345 --> 00:31:23.845
Memes
415
00:31:24.220 --> 00:31:24.720
simply
416
00:31:25.020 --> 00:31:30.240
captured the reality before it was apparent to the mainstream, before it was apparent to everyone else.
417
00:31:30.860 --> 00:31:39.205
Sats were already the standard. You know? The SATs were already the ultimate unit of measurement for the for the whole world. It's just people hadn't realized it yet.
418
00:31:40.230 --> 00:31:42.810
419
00:31:43.190 --> 00:31:49.610
are actually the standard in Bitcoin. Like, the only sets exist in Bitcoin. Bitcoins don't really exist. Like, they only exist by convention.
420
00:31:50.095 --> 00:31:53.395
Only sets exist in in the protocol, you know, like,
421
00:31:54.015 --> 00:31:57.715
at the at the base level, so to speak. And I think I think,
422
00:31:58.090 --> 00:31:58.830
you know,
423
00:31:59.169 --> 00:31:59.669
memes
424
00:32:00.010 --> 00:32:01.550
are in a way distilled truth.
425
00:32:01.930 --> 00:32:02.430
And
426
00:32:02.970 --> 00:32:14.135
if the distilled truth is somewhat offensive or funny or sticky, then all the better. And I also think that good good memes are always organic. Like, you the the forced meme doesn't exist. It's just
427
00:32:15.240 --> 00:32:18.220
it just doesn't work. It it doesn't seem to work that way. And,
428
00:32:19.480 --> 00:32:21.980
I I think memes are, in that sense,
429
00:32:22.360 --> 00:32:22.860
also
430
00:32:23.240 --> 00:32:23.740
shortcuts.
431
00:32:24.485 --> 00:32:24.985
And
432
00:32:25.285 --> 00:32:27.305
I I think more and more people
433
00:32:28.325 --> 00:32:32.265
are taking these kind of shortcuts because most people just operate on
434
00:32:33.870 --> 00:32:42.930
following people that they trust. And now we have just some big names switching over to Bitcoin and and saying, like, Bitcoin is here to say and Bitcoin is actually, you know, like, it's it's
435
00:32:43.375 --> 00:32:46.755
it's not only for criminals and it's not just tulips and it's,
436
00:32:47.375 --> 00:32:50.195
and so on and so forth. Like, we have actually
437
00:32:50.900 --> 00:32:59.000
outspoken critics that have changed their mind and and just all kinds of smart people telling you that Bitcoin is the future. And I think that's how more and more people
438
00:33:00.315 --> 00:33:02.554
will find a way into Bitcoin as well because,
439
00:33:03.514 --> 00:33:05.695
they will continue to ask themselves that,
440
00:33:06.075 --> 00:33:14.110
all the smart and respected people, can they be wrong at the same time? Maybe. But maybe there's also something there that you take a second look. And
441
00:33:14.809 --> 00:33:19.794
to to everyone who's listening to this and I mean, I guess all the all the people that are listening, they they
442
00:33:20.415 --> 00:33:22.355
are in the cult anyway. But
443
00:33:22.735 --> 00:33:25.235
just let me tell you, listening to maximalists
444
00:33:25.535 --> 00:33:27.315
is like the ultimate shortcuts
445
00:33:27.740 --> 00:33:37.605
in cheat codes and and understanding and everything else. Like, it's just like we said before, it's it's it it sounds stupid and it sounds too easy, but just, you know,
446
00:33:38.225 --> 00:33:43.605
just stack. And if you think you're doing the like, just listen to fucking American model for for that.
447
00:33:44.860 --> 00:33:51.840
Just if you're if if you're if you have second thoughts, just sec stack harder. And I I think I truly think, like, the best thing you can do is,
448
00:33:52.285 --> 00:34:14.905
educate yourself, try to be productive, try to produce something that other people will actually pay you money for in in in whatever form. So in the end, you can earn sets and just set up Auto DCA until hyperbitcoinization is complete. And that won't be a very long time, I think. You know, like, I I I I've repeated that over and over again. I think we may have seen happening right now. Right? I it's happening before our eyes, but I think It has Somewhere in in 2029,
449
00:34:15.780 --> 00:34:19.560
we will have an event that's that approximates, like, clear hyperbitcoinization
450
00:34:20.020 --> 00:34:47.865
in terms of, you know, like, field currencies failing, stuff like that. Circular economy is forming so large that most most online people are just on the Bitcoin standard and stuff like that. It's it's very hard to define, you know, like it's very hard to define the point of hyperbitcoinization since it's kind of a process. It's like it's like asking when when did the Internet win? When did the Internet take over? It obviously took over, but there's still some people that aren't online, you know. Like, when did the fax machine die? I can't really tell you. There are still people that are using fax machines. Yeah. Craig For sake, I don't know why. Craig
451
00:34:48.325 --> 00:34:49.765
452
00:34:50.165 --> 00:34:51.190
through through the fax.
453
00:34:51.750 --> 00:34:55.450
You know, Gigi, when I asked you to introduce yourself, you gave, like, this really long winded,
454
00:34:55.990 --> 00:34:56.490
in
455
00:34:58.310 --> 00:35:01.795
introduction. But I I think ultimately, like, if I was gonna sum up,
456
00:35:02.255 --> 00:35:06.675
I think your most your most powerful aspect in this space is you're almost like a meme historian,
457
00:35:07.030 --> 00:35:08.570
like a Bitcoin meme historian.
458
00:35:09.830 --> 00:35:14.010
And I wanna I was like, I think this is, like, an interesting topic to bring up with you here live.
459
00:35:14.550 --> 00:35:15.530
I kind of
460
00:35:16.174 --> 00:35:17.954
embrace Have Fun Staying Poor
461
00:35:18.734 --> 00:35:20.115
innately within myself,
462
00:35:20.734 --> 00:35:22.755
not as like a I think it's an hilarious,
463
00:35:23.430 --> 00:35:29.290
dig at someone who's, you know, a Bitcoin denier and attacking us. But I think ultimately, have fun staying poor is, like,
464
00:35:29.750 --> 00:35:34.305
that's the stay humble, stack stats lifestyle. That's that's, you know, that that's like the
465
00:35:34.765 --> 00:35:48.845
the the Bitcoin or, low time preference lifestyle. Right? Where you have to if you can have fun staying poor, then you can stack as many stats as possible, then you've found the cheat code. If you put this Oh, man. Active activity, you're like, you're having fun staying poor by stacking fast?
466
00:35:50.845 --> 00:36:00.330
467
00:36:00.710 --> 00:36:12.605
then you will own nothing but Bitcoin and you will be happy. You know. Like, it's the best thing, you know. Like, rent everything else and just buy Bitcoin. You can rent everything else. Don't rent your Bitcoin people. It's just
468
00:36:13.559 --> 00:36:14.460
rent an apartment,
469
00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:23.735
sell you sell you chairs, sell your cars. Cars are basically chairs on wheels, you know. So yeah. I think I think you're you're you're hitting the nail on the head there. That's,
470
00:36:25.795 --> 00:36:31.349
and and there's a profound truth behind it, you know. Like, Bitcoin is the only thing you can truly own because in Bitcoin,
471
00:36:31.650 --> 00:36:35.349
it's not only that it's it's it's not even that possession is is
472
00:36:35.785 --> 00:36:46.770
the rule of law. Like, you know, like they say that possession is like 9 tenths of the law and and if you if you own something, that's that's how you make sure it's yours. In Bitcoin, it's even, like, worse in kind of way. It it knowledge
473
00:36:47.150 --> 00:36:51.090
is owning something. If if if you have knowledge of a certain kind of information,
474
00:36:52.045 --> 00:36:57.345
you you you own it. And it's it's very difficult to wrap your head around it because can you really say that you own it,
475
00:36:57.645 --> 00:37:10.325
that you own knowledge? You know, like, if if you if let's say you you have a private key and you you transform it into 12 words. You have a you you have a seed phrase that's 12 words long. It's it's quite easy to remember 12 words. So So the Bitcoin are now in your head because that's basically
476
00:37:10.865 --> 00:37:15.900
for all intents and purposes, these are your Bitcoin because, you know, like, Bitcoin don't really exist, but you have those 12 words.
477
00:37:16.359 --> 00:37:31.760
And you can you can share that with your family, for example, you know. Like, if you're really tight knit, I won't recommend it, but just as a as a thought experiment. So now you know these 12 words and your wife knows these 12 words and maybe your 2 kids know these 12 words. Who owns the Bitcoin? Like everyone does. It's it's it's
478
00:37:32.060 --> 00:37:34.720
the the the whole concept of of
479
00:37:35.020 --> 00:37:52.490
property somewhat and and owning something breaks down in in Bitcoin if you think about it in that way. Because yeah. Owning is knowing and knowing is owning. And and that's I think I think that's what makes Bitcoin so fascinating because our laws just can't handle it. You you you will have to you will have to do some
480
00:37:52.845 --> 00:37:56.145
weird gen mental gymnastics to make our existing
481
00:37:56.925 --> 00:38:03.490
code of law work with that with that kind of system. And so yeah. I I I think it's it's just all kinds of
482
00:38:03.790 --> 00:38:04.770
exciting, and
483
00:38:05.070 --> 00:38:09.010
it's it's it's really possible in Bitcoin to have fun and not stay poor because
484
00:38:09.470 --> 00:38:12.575
you can you can do what you want and have your your wealth intact.
485
00:38:15.214 --> 00:38:15.954
486
00:38:17.295 --> 00:38:19.555
when the Bitcoin price runs up, I just,
487
00:38:20.100 --> 00:38:23.880
like, we we have no choice. We're gonna you either have to have fun staying poor
488
00:38:24.260 --> 00:38:24.760
or
489
00:38:25.060 --> 00:38:29.480
or or we're just not gonna have fun because we're definitely gonna stay poor regardless.
490
00:38:31.125 --> 00:38:31.625
Like,
491
00:38:31.925 --> 00:38:34.744
they'll know you'll never have enough sats. Like, it's impossible.
492
00:38:35.685 --> 00:38:38.744
You just have to try your best just to have fun staying poor.
493
00:38:40.220 --> 00:38:42.240
494
00:38:43.260 --> 00:38:58.869
I made my piece with that, quite a long while ago, I think. And and maybe maybe that that can loop back also to to, like, the the shitcoin topic because I I got pulled into the shitcoin so hard. Like, I was literally reading every white paper under the sun and try try to understand it all.
495
00:38:59.330 --> 00:39:03.750
And and yeah. No. No. I like, you guys have no idea how much I was into it. And,
496
00:39:04.530 --> 00:39:05.030
so
497
00:39:06.285 --> 00:39:14.670
I I just made peace with that that I would have if if I listened to my own advice that I'm giving now, and I would have listened to the maximalist and just,
498
00:39:16.430 --> 00:39:18.450
yeah, went all in and and just
499
00:39:18.750 --> 00:39:24.835
have been stacking like crazy, I would have way more sets than I do now. But, you know, in the end, nobody really
500
00:39:25.214 --> 00:39:28.595
has any sets because we all like voting anyway. And
501
00:39:29.694 --> 00:39:53.069
that's just the way it goes, you know, Bitcoiners lose the stats from time to time. And so I think, you know, be happy be happy be happy that you're here, be happy that you're dead early, and be happy that you can stack now, and be happy with the good sets that you stack. And don't don't be too hard on yourself even if you, you know, like, a lot of people have shot themselves in the foot and, burn keys and whatnot or just messed up in some other way. And so yeah. Just
502
00:39:53.369 --> 00:39:56.109
as mental health advice, don't don't be too hard on yourself.
503
00:40:02.295 --> 00:40:06.875
And I'm I'm sorry, Chris. I I just, I I didn't let you speak before, but
504
00:40:07.340 --> 00:40:11.760
in my defense, I'm kind I'm kinda drunk and stuff. That's all good, dude. No worries.
505
00:40:12.220 --> 00:40:15.520
506
00:40:19.335 --> 00:40:23.575
But, yeah, there was a thought that I wanted to to toss in there when when,
507
00:40:24.295 --> 00:40:26.234
Matt brought up a meme historian.
508
00:40:27.750 --> 00:40:29.690
I feel like I've I've had like a recent
509
00:40:30.470 --> 00:40:31.529
growth and appreciation
510
00:40:31.910 --> 00:40:32.410
for
511
00:40:33.269 --> 00:40:33.769
me.
512
00:40:34.215 --> 00:40:38.075
It's sort of a joke but, like, memes really are how how we win
513
00:40:38.455 --> 00:40:40.955
and not not the not that, like,
514
00:40:42.240 --> 00:40:46.900
we come up with cooler graphics or anything like that, but like the distillation
515
00:40:47.200 --> 00:40:47.700
of
516
00:40:48.160 --> 00:40:53.845
the knowledge that takes a long time to learn into something that's easier to learn over time
517
00:40:54.545 --> 00:40:55.525
is how we
518
00:40:57.185 --> 00:40:58.325
how we broadcast
519
00:40:58.625 --> 00:40:59.605
and onboard
520
00:41:00.309 --> 00:41:00.970
the message
521
00:41:01.349 --> 00:41:02.170
to everybody,
522
00:41:03.190 --> 00:41:05.770
to the mainstream, to people who who aren't
523
00:41:06.390 --> 00:41:11.565
in the habit of being really curious about new technology and and actively learning about it.
524
00:41:12.105 --> 00:41:16.685
They're only gonna listen when when the meme is so simple and they're seeing
525
00:41:17.065 --> 00:41:18.445
other people around them
526
00:41:19.150 --> 00:41:22.850
benefit from taking the advice of that meme. So
527
00:41:23.390 --> 00:41:26.450
recently, I I wrote an article, trying to compare,
528
00:41:28.265 --> 00:41:29.165
Bitcoin adoption
529
00:41:29.625 --> 00:41:34.685
to what it looked like on the, the frontier of the American West, how the
530
00:41:35.050 --> 00:41:36.010
American West was,
531
00:41:36.570 --> 00:41:37.470
was developed,
532
00:41:37.850 --> 00:41:39.630
over the last few 100 years.
533
00:41:40.570 --> 00:41:45.135
And in the process of that, I I think, you know, there's there's sort of two main means
534
00:41:45.515 --> 00:41:46.015
of
535
00:41:47.115 --> 00:41:47.615
advice
536
00:41:47.995 --> 00:41:50.335
for people in the 1800 about
537
00:41:50.920 --> 00:41:53.740
how to make the most of this new frontier and the opportunity
538
00:41:54.200 --> 00:41:54.700
there.
539
00:41:55.400 --> 00:42:02.924
One was go west young man, which is sort of the encapsulation of of everything. Right? Like there's opportunity in the west
540
00:42:03.305 --> 00:42:05.885
and that's where you should go if you wanna make a better life.
541
00:42:06.984 --> 00:42:09.645
And that I didn't notice, but that only
542
00:42:10.740 --> 00:42:11.240
was
543
00:42:11.620 --> 00:42:13.160
was coined as a phrase
544
00:42:13.460 --> 00:42:14.600
in the 18 sixties.
545
00:42:15.140 --> 00:42:15.640
So
546
00:42:16.180 --> 00:42:17.960
that it took decades before
547
00:42:18.675 --> 00:42:19.175
the
548
00:42:19.795 --> 00:42:21.015
the wisdom, the knowledge
549
00:42:21.475 --> 00:42:25.575
was synthesized into something as simple as that. This this meme
550
00:42:26.070 --> 00:42:27.369
go west, Joe Man,
551
00:42:29.110 --> 00:42:33.690
took decades. And because of the Internet, we have and because of Twitter,
552
00:42:33.990 --> 00:42:36.694
we have the advantage of so much more
553
00:42:37.075 --> 00:42:37.575
rapid,
554
00:42:39.635 --> 00:42:41.175
idea exchange and iteration
555
00:42:41.795 --> 00:42:42.194
that,
556
00:42:42.675 --> 00:42:43.974
Bitcoin Twitter can
557
00:42:44.619 --> 00:42:49.760
accelerate that synthesis of of the value of adopting Bitcoin as your unit of account.
558
00:42:50.060 --> 00:42:51.599
And we're not done yet. And,
559
00:42:52.115 --> 00:42:57.095
you know, as those memes improve, we'll reach more and more people who in turn will propagate
560
00:42:57.395 --> 00:42:59.655
that knowledge to more and more people in their world.
561
00:43:00.195 --> 00:43:01.415
And that's how we win.
562
00:43:02.190 --> 00:43:02.930
563
00:43:03.230 --> 00:43:08.130
I I I also think that memes kind of, in a weird way, are the language of the Internet
564
00:43:08.510 --> 00:43:23.020
because they are just so insanely condensed. You know? Like, image macros existed for a long time, and not too long ago, image macros were the only thing that were was known as memes. Now everything is kind of a meme, like, in short videos and stuff like that. That
565
00:43:23.320 --> 00:43:27.005
yeah. The the the memes are real. They they always have been. And
566
00:43:27.785 --> 00:43:28.285
so,
567
00:43:29.065 --> 00:43:30.765
I I actually, I,
568
00:43:31.224 --> 00:43:34.845
I think I heard Wittstein talk about that how how memes are
569
00:43:35.380 --> 00:43:35.880
basically
570
00:43:36.340 --> 00:43:37.000
just supercharged,
571
00:43:38.020 --> 00:43:40.840
rathoric devices and how how it's just rathoric,
572
00:43:41.220 --> 00:43:41.880
on steroids.
573
00:43:42.345 --> 00:44:02.144
And I think that's that's really true. But for for a good meme to to stick and to spread, it also has, as Matt said before, it has to be true. You know? Like, there there has to be there has to be not only a kernel of truth. It it has to hit you in the head how how true it is. Like, that's money print of, you know? That's what the shit corners don't fucking realize. Right? It's like you have these ETH heads on on Twitter,
574
00:44:03.565 --> 00:44:12.670
575
00:44:13.770 --> 00:44:14.590
like, 21,000,000,
576
00:44:14.970 --> 00:44:16.910
this idea of a supply cap
577
00:44:17.935 --> 00:44:19.955
exists because it's so
578
00:44:20.335 --> 00:44:25.155
hard to change it. It's it's it's both socially difficult to change it, and
579
00:44:25.560 --> 00:44:29.580
as a technology, it's been prioritized to allow people to to self
580
00:44:29.960 --> 00:44:31.420
verify and use their own nodes,
581
00:44:32.040 --> 00:44:38.185
and it gives people the, basically, the ability to veto any kind of radical changes, right, and and verify it themselves.
582
00:44:39.125 --> 00:44:51.430
It's not because people's, you know, keep saying 21,000,000 over and over again. That is the that is culmination. This is the the it is the meme the meme is the explanation of something that already exists. You can't
583
00:44:51.810 --> 00:44:54.230
the meme doesn't create the reality. It is the reality.
584
00:44:55.255 --> 00:44:57.195
585
00:44:58.775 --> 00:44:59.835
586
00:45:00.295 --> 00:45:01.390
587
00:45:02.190 --> 00:45:05.650
I think it's funny how the Internet has forgotten where the idea of meme,
588
00:45:06.190 --> 00:45:11.250
comes from. And there's a word that was invented or applied by,
589
00:45:12.145 --> 00:45:13.925
Richard Dawkins, I think in
590
00:45:14.545 --> 00:45:17.365
one of his books, I think it might have been The Selfish Gene
591
00:45:19.830 --> 00:45:23.370
To put a label on on this idea that that genes
592
00:45:24.150 --> 00:45:25.050
are information
593
00:45:26.070 --> 00:45:29.130
that are and and and they propagate themselves
594
00:45:30.265 --> 00:45:31.724
and they want to be propagated.
595
00:45:32.265 --> 00:45:36.765
And and so the mean is that unit of that base unit of information
596
00:45:38.150 --> 00:45:39.369
that the gene carries
597
00:45:40.710 --> 00:45:44.925
and and so yeah when we think about internet means with that lens of
598
00:45:45.405 --> 00:45:48.065
the base unit of information that can be propagated,
599
00:45:48.605 --> 00:45:51.745
you know, that's that's what we're that's what we're trying to get towards.
600
00:45:52.210 --> 00:46:00.150
601
00:46:00.450 --> 00:46:05.234
And I I also think this is the reason for so many also, you know, like,
602
00:46:06.255 --> 00:46:08.835
cult and religious parallels in Bitcoin that,
603
00:46:10.140 --> 00:46:12.140
you you you rightly pointed out that this was,
604
00:46:13.500 --> 00:46:15.200
coined by Dawkins who,
605
00:46:16.220 --> 00:46:16.720
obviously
606
00:46:17.455 --> 00:46:22.195
took inspiration from genes and how living organisms like, how how the
607
00:46:22.815 --> 00:46:30.069
how how genes spread, but not only genes are spreading, but also in humans, certain ideas are spreading and are mutating and
608
00:46:30.609 --> 00:46:53.155
are useful or not useful. And if they are not useful, then also the meme won't survive. And he was talking in the context of, religions and and other things and other ideas. And I I really like also the the framework that Harari put into place. It was the first time at least when I saw that, he was like that money is a meme as well. Like, he he was saying that money is a religion pretty much. But but those are all, like, informational
609
00:46:53.695 --> 00:46:54.835
constructs that,
610
00:46:55.695 --> 00:47:04.230
people use to coordinate and to agree on reality and stuff like that. And so so Bitcoin is the ultimate meme, you know. Like, Bitcoin is pure information. It's just information. And it's
611
00:47:04.950 --> 00:47:13.985
it it it it is self replicating information as well. Like, it it is the absolute ultimate meme machine, and that's just how it operates. That's how it works. Bitcoin
612
00:47:14.530 --> 00:47:16.470
is the de facto meme machine.
613
00:47:17.250 --> 00:47:20.230
I think that's why it also lends itself so well,
614
00:47:21.010 --> 00:47:29.345
for for memes. And, I mean, there there are deeper reasons to that as well. I I think, you know, in a in a way that the the mined virus also replicates. And,
615
00:47:30.145 --> 00:47:43.605
as we talked before, you you can't really take possession of your Bitcoin, but Bitcoin can definitely take possession of you. And so in a way, you know, like, we are we're Bitcoin lives in us and we're the hosts that's that spread it, and we spread it through through the most effective
616
00:47:43.985 --> 00:47:50.720
means, which are memes and so on and so forth. So I I think I think anyone who's kind of interested in that that should should should check out,
617
00:47:51.160 --> 00:47:52.620
these books and and make up,
618
00:47:53.320 --> 00:47:54.040
his own mind.
619
00:47:54.840 --> 00:47:56.540
What what's what's it all about
620
00:47:57.320 --> 00:47:58.380
in meme and geneland?
621
00:48:00.205 --> 00:48:03.625
622
00:48:04.085 --> 00:48:16.240
do like, should the children of the world be be upset with with with their parents and their grandparents if they were gifted dollars that are just keep collapsing since Christmas? Like, should should there be a should there be a children uprising here?
623
00:48:16.695 --> 00:48:22.475
624
00:48:23.175 --> 00:48:25.195
625
00:48:25.869 --> 00:48:28.930
ethical moral dilemma of like once you have learned
626
00:48:30.990 --> 00:48:31.650
about bitcoin,
627
00:48:32.190 --> 00:48:33.089
is it ethical
628
00:48:33.974 --> 00:48:35.755
to to not propagate that
629
00:48:36.695 --> 00:48:39.755
that, knowledge to your children or to your friends and family?
630
00:48:42.309 --> 00:48:46.089
It's it's everybody's responsibility to do that once they've learned. So
631
00:48:46.630 --> 00:48:47.770
the the the fact that,
632
00:48:48.470 --> 00:48:50.170
children are being given
633
00:48:51.335 --> 00:48:53.915
dollars for Christmas and watching those dollars
634
00:48:54.375 --> 00:48:55.435
melt in value
635
00:48:56.215 --> 00:48:58.715
is is not the fault of their parents
636
00:48:59.080 --> 00:48:59.820
who don't
637
00:49:00.120 --> 00:49:03.980
know, but it it is wrong of the parents who do know. So
638
00:49:04.360 --> 00:49:05.400
it's interesting how that,
639
00:49:07.025 --> 00:49:10.925
it's arrow of, of Bitcoin adoption goes in one direction.
640
00:49:12.185 --> 00:49:14.845
641
00:49:16.160 --> 00:49:16.660
are
642
00:49:17.520 --> 00:49:22.180
incessantly annoying to their children and are giving them SATs, have been giving them SATs for Christmas
643
00:49:22.480 --> 00:49:25.915
for a while now. And, I I have a feeling their children's,
644
00:49:26.375 --> 00:49:31.035
views on it during bear markets were were were less agreeable than they are now.
645
00:49:31.510 --> 00:49:35.370
646
00:49:36.310 --> 00:49:39.865
individuals, because they've only lived so long and they can only think so far out.
647
00:49:42.345 --> 00:49:44.505
648
00:49:45.385 --> 00:49:46.525
in in terms of
649
00:49:46.985 --> 00:49:48.550
indoctrinating your children.
650
00:49:48.850 --> 00:49:50.870
Like, you you know, we have, chamarine
651
00:49:51.170 --> 00:49:51.670
and
652
00:49:53.330 --> 00:49:56.205
children children's books and all all kinds of things,
653
00:49:56.765 --> 00:49:58.065
that that are actually
654
00:49:58.525 --> 00:50:03.025
fun also during bear markets. But I I like what Chris has said before that,
655
00:50:03.750 --> 00:50:07.369
stacking sets is like a a one way street. I I I really like,
656
00:50:07.990 --> 00:50:17.795
to think that. And I think that's that's also a meme that people need to wrap their head around, and that's very difficult for most people in in my experience to understand that,
657
00:50:18.255 --> 00:50:20.220
this is the end game, you know, like,
658
00:50:20.780 --> 00:50:22.240
switching switching your
659
00:50:22.700 --> 00:50:23.200
viewpoint
660
00:50:23.660 --> 00:50:24.160
from
661
00:50:24.700 --> 00:50:33.105
pricing in dollars to pricing in sets, that's so insanely difficult because most people that have have been caught up in the, quote, unquote, cryptocurrency
662
00:50:33.485 --> 00:50:34.865
craze of, 2017,
663
00:50:35.325 --> 00:50:42.820
they were like, how can I maximize my dollar gains? They were never like, how how can I maximize my gains in in sets? And once you once you start to switch,
664
00:50:43.440 --> 00:50:43.940
things
665
00:50:44.480 --> 00:50:46.500
are getting really different. And
666
00:50:47.145 --> 00:50:51.165
I I think understanding that stacking sets is a one way street is is kind of
667
00:50:51.625 --> 00:50:58.470
the end goal of a long journey. And I'm I'm afraid, like, I'm I'm I'm not we've been talking about memes and shortcuts and all kinds of things,
668
00:50:59.170 --> 00:51:03.990
and I'm afraid that there isn't really a good shortcut. You know, it's it's it's kind of like
669
00:51:05.065 --> 00:51:06.765
it's it's kind of like your grandparents,
670
00:51:08.345 --> 00:51:21.230
spreading a lot of wisdom, but you don't really believe them. You have to live your life you have to make the mistake mistakes on your own, you know. Like, it's if you would have only listened to your grandparents, then you would have would probably be in the way out of place because they're actually
671
00:51:21.530 --> 00:51:26.855
kinda smart and have good advice and know what they're doing. And they they they might not be the best in
672
00:51:27.155 --> 00:51:36.470
in explaining it well, but it's I think it's because you're not receptive. You're not receptive to the ideas. And I think the same is true for, like, shit kindness and no kindness that they are not able to
673
00:51:36.850 --> 00:51:38.550
hear the truth of the maximalists
674
00:51:38.930 --> 00:51:39.430
because
675
00:51:39.735 --> 00:51:43.915
they're not ready to receive these kind of ideas, and they're not not ready to
676
00:51:44.295 --> 00:51:44.375
to,
677
00:51:46.295 --> 00:51:51.800
see the truth for what it is. And they I think a lot of people just have to go through these natural cycles
678
00:51:52.500 --> 00:51:53.640
and and just
679
00:51:54.020 --> 00:51:59.075
experience it and learn it for themselves. Like, as as you say, Matt, all the time is, like, everyone has
680
00:51:59.535 --> 00:52:10.530
681
00:52:11.605 --> 00:52:21.260
and then and then learning from it, especially in Bitcoin. My my history of my of my Bitcoin learning is just burning myself over and over and over again and learning in the process.
682
00:52:21.800 --> 00:52:24.859
We have a question here from a good friend of the podcast
683
00:52:25.319 --> 00:52:27.180
and text based host, 6102
684
00:52:27.480 --> 00:52:38.110
Bitcoin. Should newcomers go all in with savings than DCA with their income or just DCA from the start? When he says DCA, he means dollar cost averaging, colloquially known as stacking sats.
685
00:52:39.310 --> 00:52:42.610
686
00:52:43.230 --> 00:52:44.210
from my, like,
687
00:52:44.750 --> 00:52:46.610
my MBA classmates and
688
00:52:47.125 --> 00:52:51.224
all the colleagues right now who are all of a sudden interested at 30,000
689
00:52:52.165 --> 00:52:54.424
and ignoring the 10,000 and before.
690
00:52:56.390 --> 00:52:57.290
And, yeah, it's a it's
691
00:52:57.670 --> 00:52:58.170
a
692
00:52:58.950 --> 00:53:02.570
it's an impossible question, I guess, because it's up to everybody's
693
00:53:03.030 --> 00:53:03.850
risk tolerance.
694
00:53:04.485 --> 00:53:06.905
But not really risk tolerance it's up to their conviction.
695
00:53:07.445 --> 00:53:10.745
You know, you can only put in as much as you feel comfortable with
696
00:53:11.819 --> 00:53:14.720
and the maximum that you are comfortable with
697
00:53:15.020 --> 00:53:17.920
is directly correlated to your level of knowledge.
698
00:53:18.655 --> 00:53:19.875
So the more you learn,
699
00:53:20.575 --> 00:53:21.235
the more
700
00:53:21.615 --> 00:53:23.155
you are comfortable holding
701
00:53:23.615 --> 00:53:26.595
a greater percentage of your total net worth in bitcoin.
702
00:53:28.089 --> 00:53:28.589
And
703
00:53:29.049 --> 00:53:30.589
what's amazing to me is how
704
00:53:31.130 --> 00:53:33.549
how the people that I've been talking to recently
705
00:53:34.345 --> 00:53:38.045
view any small percentage of Bitcoin as a risk,
706
00:53:38.424 --> 00:53:40.444
you know, and and as a Bitcoiner,
707
00:53:41.150 --> 00:53:49.730
the risk to me is is so you're telling me you have a 100% of your net worth in in dollars or, you know, that financial system
708
00:53:50.674 --> 00:53:52.615
or isn't isn't that risky? So,
709
00:53:54.275 --> 00:53:56.535
in my mind, it's like, what percentage
710
00:53:56.994 --> 00:53:58.295
of your network can
711
00:53:58.740 --> 00:54:01.320
get comfortable with shifting into this
712
00:54:01.780 --> 00:54:09.735
other asset class and then start DCA it DCA. And but it's just so hard to get them, you know, off 0 at all. But
713
00:54:10.275 --> 00:54:11.815
take what you can get, I guess.
714
00:54:12.275 --> 00:54:12.935
715
00:54:13.715 --> 00:54:24.020
I I think it's an interesting I idea. Right? Because I think for bit right, like, when we have doll extra dollars, we feel like that's too risky. It's almost too risky to not have Bitcoin.
716
00:54:25.025 --> 00:54:30.405
I I I've been playing around with that framing on Twitter for instance in the other day. I mean, I sent out a tweet,
717
00:54:30.865 --> 00:54:34.085
that was that was basically that framing was it's you know,
718
00:54:34.430 --> 00:54:40.530
honestly, I just don't have the convictions to buy conviction to buy dollars with my stats, you know. It's just too risky for me.
719
00:54:41.955 --> 00:54:46.135
But at the same time, you have the overwhelming majority of people who,
720
00:54:46.835 --> 00:54:47.895
whether for,
721
00:54:49.395 --> 00:54:54.600
good reason or not, they feel the opposite. Right? And there's gonna be, like, a turning point at some point,
722
00:54:55.300 --> 00:54:58.920
where it's there's gonna be massive change because those people
723
00:54:59.285 --> 00:55:03.465
are gonna come around onto the extreme side. Because I feel like once you start
724
00:55:03.925 --> 00:55:04.425
stacking,
725
00:55:04.885 --> 00:55:10.890
there's really no going back. From that point on, you're just increasing and increasing and increasing, and you just can't get enough.
726
00:55:12.230 --> 00:55:16.090
You know, one thing here that I think people miss is, like, yeah, like, if you look back
727
00:55:17.704 --> 00:55:26.170
at at at any point in history, you know, the price was cheaper than it is today. It's easy to say when you're sitting at all time highs, like, oh, I should have went all in
728
00:55:26.710 --> 00:55:29.770
at any point, literally any point before now,
729
00:55:30.390 --> 00:55:33.690
and then continued stacking from there. But I think the cool part about
730
00:55:34.215 --> 00:55:54.944
staying humble and stacking sets, and that staying humble part is key is because so many people have an issue with getting in the door. You know, they they come in, they start paying attention to stuff, and they're like, oh, I'm gonna wait for Hyperwave. I'm gonna wait till 25100 till it falls down a little bit. Or even now, like, people are like, I'm gonna wait till it falls under 30 and then I'm gonna go all in. The nice thing about stacking from the beginning
731
00:55:55.645 --> 00:56:00.970
is that it's it's an easy decision for someone to make. It's an easy decision for someone to say, okay,
732
00:56:01.750 --> 00:56:14.045
instead of wasting $10 or $15 on cigarettes per day, I'm gonna put that into Bitcoin, and if I lose it, I lose it. You know? So they can actually get in. So maybe really what it looks like,
733
00:56:14.760 --> 00:56:19.980
in practice I mean, everyone's different is is you kinda come in on a on a on a small DCA
734
00:56:20.600 --> 00:56:21.260
and then,
735
00:56:21.744 --> 00:56:30.244
you know, like, a couple months into that, you get some massive FOMO and then you then you practically go all in and then you continue to stack from there. Like, that's probably the more realistic scenario.
736
00:56:30.880 --> 00:56:34.660
737
00:56:35.120 --> 00:56:35.620
because,
738
00:56:36.480 --> 00:56:41.225
like, a lot of a lot of Bitcoiners have different approaches to that. But my advice
739
00:56:41.765 --> 00:56:47.785
to especially to new people, but pretty much to everyone, but especially to, like, complete no coin on newbies,
740
00:56:48.245 --> 00:56:48.745
to,
741
00:56:49.110 --> 00:56:49.930
you know, like,
742
00:56:50.230 --> 00:56:52.010
I don't know, my my sister or whatever,
743
00:56:52.390 --> 00:57:13.140
is just start stacking sets today. Just start now. Just don't think about it. Just please trust me, believe me, just start now, set it up. Even if you have no idea what you're doing, just find a way to to to get your feet wet and just the best thing is to do start stacking. The best thing is to do like, I I send people to auto DCA services straight away.
744
00:57:13.440 --> 00:57:14.180
Like and
745
00:57:14.765 --> 00:57:16.465
it it's the best thing because
746
00:57:17.565 --> 00:57:26.339
I think if you especially if you have a little bit of money. Let's say you you you're well off and you want to put in, like, 30 k or 50 k or something into Bitcoin.
747
00:57:27.359 --> 00:57:27.859
The
748
00:57:28.400 --> 00:57:30.020
the ways you can fuck up
749
00:57:30.400 --> 00:57:31.140
are like,
750
00:57:31.585 --> 00:57:37.525
there's there are a million ways you can fuck up. So it's really easy to to to mess something up to completely,
751
00:57:38.065 --> 00:57:43.900
like, completely get wrecked, like, to lose all your money, to, of of course, destroy your your privacy forever,
752
00:57:44.200 --> 00:57:47.494
to shoot yourself in the foot, to, you know, like,
753
00:57:48.595 --> 00:57:50.775
do just there there are a 1,000,000 ways
754
00:57:51.234 --> 00:57:56.190
a million things you can do wrong and and then nobody can help you. So even if you're technically
755
00:57:56.490 --> 00:57:56.990
proficient,
756
00:57:57.450 --> 00:58:00.430
this this can happen because if you're smart and if you're
757
00:58:00.970 --> 00:58:08.785
if you're, like, if you're a technical guy and if you're in IT or something, then you you might think it's a good idea to build your own, you know, like
758
00:58:09.325 --> 00:58:13.730
scheme set up, whatever security set up, and you might split your seed and and then encrypt something
759
00:58:24.595 --> 00:58:27.095
It like, if you can just start
760
00:58:27.795 --> 00:58:28.855
start auto DCA
761
00:58:29.315 --> 00:58:29.815
and
762
00:58:30.275 --> 00:58:36.799
learn as you go. The if if you mess up, you haven't lost much. You know, as I said, just give up a bad habit,
763
00:58:37.099 --> 00:58:46.555
like quit smoking and and put put the money you would usually spend for cigarettes, in into DCA. And and just learn as you go and upgrade as you as you need. Like, upgrade
764
00:58:46.855 --> 00:58:50.920
upgrade your your setup, upgrade your security, upgrade your best practices,
765
00:58:52.099 --> 00:58:53.640
then start to
766
00:58:54.099 --> 00:59:02.815
get into running notes, for example, get a hardware wallet, stuff like that. And you you cannot you cannot learn everything at at once. And I also think you cannot do everything
767
00:59:03.595 --> 00:59:06.494
right at once. Of course, you know, like, that's for
768
00:59:06.890 --> 00:59:08.910
that's for individuals. That's for, like,
769
00:59:09.690 --> 00:59:16.485
people that want to learn about Bitcoin, want to get some exposure and so on. The story is different if if you're a company and and you you just
770
00:59:16.965 --> 00:59:19.705
do everything custodial and you're just like, you know, let's
771
00:59:20.005 --> 00:59:22.105
allocate 20,000,000 to Bitcoin and
772
00:59:22.725 --> 00:59:39.454
someone will take care of it. But, you know, like, that's that's not really Bitcoin. You're not you're actually not holding Bitcoin. And I I I think I think you can't go wrong with that approach. And as you go as you become more comfortable, you can think of hitting a goal earlier. And I think it's also important to understand that
773
00:59:39.994 --> 00:59:46.590
FOMO is just horrible. Like, if you think now is the only time to get in, that's that's just just take a step back and
774
00:59:47.130 --> 01:00:02.095
and take a deep breath. And if if you're not calm, then you're bound to make mistakes. That's just if if you're if you're just following in and you just you you have to get in now, you're bound to mess something up. And so my advice is is just start small, start start DCA ing, and
775
01:00:03.660 --> 01:00:04.800
just, you know,
776
01:00:05.340 --> 01:00:13.565
try try to also understand what you're going and take it take it step by step. And and and a second thing I want to point out is I saw a couple of people and,
777
01:00:14.045 --> 01:00:15.025
I also
778
01:00:15.484 --> 01:00:19.025
in some sense know a little bit from experience. If you go
779
01:00:20.040 --> 01:00:21.740
too much all in, so to speak,
780
01:00:22.119 --> 01:00:26.859
it's very easy to end up in a in a impossible situation. You know, like,
781
01:00:27.160 --> 01:00:54.505
let's say, oh, yeah. New bull market isn't coming. I'm gonna go all in, and then I'm up 200%, and now I'm gonna quit my job and do whatever. And And then the market tanks, and you're down 90%, and you're forced to sell at the very bottom because you have to eat. That's not a good situation to be in. So just try to be smart about it. That's why the stay humble part is super important because none of us are gonna be humble. It's so like, when this thing goes crazy, when Bitcoin hits open water and just going fucking insane,
782
01:00:55.510 --> 01:00:58.490
783
01:00:58.790 --> 01:01:00.330
And when the price is collapsing
784
01:01:00.790 --> 01:01:02.730
and, you know, you're you're in a bear cycle,
785
01:01:03.705 --> 01:01:09.485
and everyone's saying Bitcoin's dead, it's really hard to stay humble and and be acquiring at that point. Right?
786
01:01:09.785 --> 01:01:16.980
And and so so you you constantly just need to be introspective of yourself, I think, just in life in general, but especially in Bitcoin.
787
01:01:17.680 --> 01:01:28.745
788
01:01:29.150 --> 01:01:33.490
was just just don't think about it. Stop looking at price charts and everything and just do Auto DCA.
789
01:01:34.190 --> 01:01:50.690
Like, it's it's pure Bitcoin, San. It's I can't recommend it enough. I just It's the best thing ever. Like, I never look at just stop looking at fucking charts. Stop looking at the price even. Like, my price indicator is is just memes, you know. Like, I talk about this. Let's talk about this for a second. Right? So auto DCA
790
01:01:50.990 --> 01:01:56.855
791
01:01:58.194 --> 01:01:59.095
Auto stacking
792
01:01:59.954 --> 01:02:00.434
is is
793
01:02:01.410 --> 01:02:07.830
if you if you're working a fiat job if you're working a fiat job and you're getting your fiat paycheck into your fiat bank account,
794
01:02:08.610 --> 01:02:14.345
you can convert a portion of that into Bitcoin, into Sats on a daily, weekly, or monthly basis.
795
01:02:16.165 --> 01:02:23.589
And, this is basic this is what I've been doing this whole cycle because it just didn't really it didn't really exist as an option earlier. Yeah.
796
01:02:24.609 --> 01:02:35.865
And it just completely takes you you you pick your percentage. Right? I guess this is, like, the way people should look at it. Right? Like, I guess, you subtract your take home versus your expenses, and then you have this cushion area.
797
01:02:36.210 --> 01:02:41.190
Right? And you decide what percent of that you're gonna contribute. Right? And I I personally like daily,
798
01:02:41.650 --> 01:02:53.230
but let's be honest. Like, if if it's a smaller amount, you're gonna pay a higher percentage in fees. So it kinda makes sense to do weekly, but daily just feels productive at as fuck. Like, it's amazing waking up in the morning and just being like, oh, I have more sets.
799
01:02:54.750 --> 01:02:55.570
800
01:02:56.350 --> 01:03:02.190
801
01:03:03.525 --> 01:03:09.225
I think that's totally the approach for when you already have a good exposure to to Bitcoin.
802
01:03:09.605 --> 01:03:12.025
But for somebody, like, with 0 exposure,
803
01:03:12.440 --> 01:03:14.300
who has significant net worth,
804
01:03:15.400 --> 01:03:19.900
I think there's a there's an upfront period where they need to be either stacking aggressively
805
01:03:21.525 --> 01:03:30.505
or do some sort of lump sum to get off 0. But like, Matt, as you said before, it's totally true that it's so hard to here's Matt.
806
01:03:30.940 --> 01:03:31.760
So hard to,
807
01:03:32.340 --> 01:03:32.840
like,
808
01:03:33.420 --> 01:03:34.560
to commit to that.
809
01:03:34.940 --> 01:03:52.569
810
01:03:53.245 --> 01:03:59.905
Yeah. And I I think it's it's it's you need to be careful about buying a lump sum before you really understand the asset and have used it.
811
01:04:00.365 --> 01:04:01.505
At the same time,
812
01:04:02.210 --> 01:04:03.190
we are in
813
01:04:03.809 --> 01:04:04.630
a historical
814
01:04:05.569 --> 01:04:14.375
cycle where we've had these historical cycles that look relatively similar every fucking time. And what happens is when we breach these all time highs after having
815
01:04:14.675 --> 01:04:16.455
and you go into open water Bitcoin,
816
01:04:16.915 --> 01:04:23.720
we tend to have massive upside. And even when it corrects back down, you don't get near that all that previous all time high level. Right?
817
01:04:24.020 --> 01:04:32.125
So there there's something to be said here about in this specific time trying to get aggressively off 0 if you haven't already.
818
01:04:32.505 --> 01:04:41.859
But I mean, really the ideal is to not be in this fucking situation. Like if you have no sats right now, what the fuck did you do over these last couple of years? Like, what the fuck was going on there?
819
01:04:42.160 --> 01:04:43.920
820
01:04:44.559 --> 01:04:47.575
my MBA friends is that they have 0%
821
01:04:48.035 --> 01:04:48.535
Bitcoin
822
01:04:49.155 --> 01:04:49.655
and
823
01:04:50.035 --> 01:04:57.310
their instinct is to to dip a toe and wait a year, you know, see how it performs for a year. But if you do that, then
824
01:04:57.610 --> 01:04:59.950
you miss out on what's happening, what's coming.
825
01:05:00.890 --> 01:05:01.390
And
826
01:05:02.815 --> 01:05:04.835
this sort of happened for me is like,
827
01:05:06.095 --> 01:05:10.355
it's hard for me to to move the needle that much more on this app that I have,
828
01:05:11.660 --> 01:05:14.800
versus like if I had just bought a little bit more upfront.
829
01:05:16.380 --> 01:05:23.365
Because as you know, when you're in for a cycle then it 10 x is 10 x harder to stack the same amount of sats.
830
01:05:23.905 --> 01:05:26.325
So I think dipping a toe can be a,
831
01:05:27.790 --> 01:05:29.410
can be the wrong, like,
832
01:05:29.950 --> 01:05:30.450
instinct
833
01:05:31.550 --> 01:05:34.290
because of the, like, time sensitivity of Bitcoin
834
01:05:34.755 --> 01:05:37.575
when it starts to run when it's in price discovery here.
835
01:05:39.395 --> 01:05:43.015
836
01:05:43.880 --> 01:05:50.940
you will never be able to move the needle of your past purchases. If you assume out enough, it's gonna be an exponential
837
01:05:51.265 --> 01:05:52.724
trend all the way until
838
01:05:53.105 --> 01:06:00.880
everything is said and done. So that's just that's just the nature of this game. That's just the way it's going to be. And I I understand I I understand,
839
01:06:01.820 --> 01:06:06.560
yeah, what I would call the the Robert Breedlove approach because he he has been,
840
01:06:07.125 --> 01:06:09.865
outlining that quite well in terms of if you have
841
01:06:10.245 --> 01:06:19.869
enough cash on the side by lump sum and DCA later, so to speak. But, again, I think it's it it it also it has its own risks because you you want to time your entry.
842
01:06:20.170 --> 01:06:22.655
That that the larger your sum, the the
843
01:06:22.975 --> 01:06:25.635
the more inclined you are to trade,
844
01:06:25.935 --> 01:06:26.435
like,
845
01:06:26.735 --> 01:06:37.340
cycles to Yeah. And then the price drops the price drops 5 k or something, and you freak the fuck out. Let me just tell you, all of that is bullshit. Like, just if you if you have a lot of money,
846
01:06:37.640 --> 01:06:45.775
just take that money and and do do auto DCA with that as well. Like like, let's say let's say you have 30 k. Okay. Then just pick any month
847
01:06:46.395 --> 01:07:07.060
and put in a 1,000 like, put in 1 k every day. Then then then your whole stash is done. And if you still have a a fiat job, and you can you can I don't know? You can't afford to put in 25% of your paycheck, Just do that and leave your life as normal and never look at the price chart again. And just do that until 2029, and you can thank thank me later. And that's just the cheat code. And if you don't believe me, then just
848
01:07:07.620 --> 01:07:12.040
849
01:07:12.580 --> 01:07:16.760
that's what people don't realize. Like, you could flex your stack, like, the amount you stack.
850
01:07:17.285 --> 01:07:23.704
You can in the beginning, you can do a higher amount while you buy when you buy in your original position, and then you can lower it over time.
851
01:07:24.460 --> 01:07:28.960
So we have a couple of questions in the comments that I I I wanna hit here.
852
01:07:29.740 --> 01:07:30.720
First of all,
853
01:07:32.095 --> 01:07:35.234
someone said there's no auto stacking option in Europe.
854
01:07:36.095 --> 01:07:39.875
Gigi is the European. I know Get Better used to exist. It doesn't anymore.
855
01:07:40.500 --> 01:07:42.280
I'm an advisor for Bottlepay
856
01:07:42.580 --> 01:07:44.200
with a small equity stake,
857
01:07:44.580 --> 01:07:50.525
and they're about they're, like, in the testing phase right now. They're about to hit the app store with their own,
858
01:07:51.464 --> 01:07:52.605
Auto Stack service.
859
01:07:52.984 --> 01:07:59.770
And I believe Stripe is about to launch in Europe. So those are 2 options. Gigi, do you have another option for anyone that's trying to Auto Stack in Europe?
860
01:08:00.250 --> 01:08:03.710
861
01:08:04.090 --> 01:08:04.590
Like,
862
01:08:05.610 --> 01:08:07.150
the one that I recommend
863
01:08:07.525 --> 01:08:09.465
from time to time is Relay.
864
01:08:09.845 --> 01:08:10.985
They're Swiss based.
865
01:08:11.285 --> 01:08:12.825
You have to check with your bank.
866
01:08:13.205 --> 01:08:13.705
Sometimes,
867
01:08:14.965 --> 01:08:16.025
like, ridiculous
868
01:08:16.510 --> 01:08:18.130
transfer fees occur because you're,
869
01:08:18.990 --> 01:08:21.010
yeah, you're transferring from
870
01:08:22.030 --> 01:08:22.930
European Union,
871
01:08:24.270 --> 01:08:25.490
area to Switzerland.
872
01:08:26.245 --> 01:08:26.745
And,
873
01:08:27.765 --> 01:08:29.705
that's good. Like, that's proper DCA.
874
01:08:30.085 --> 01:08:33.385
There's, like I I would say they are good people. They they have a horrible
875
01:08:33.765 --> 01:08:34.825
shit kind of PhD
876
01:08:35.530 --> 01:08:36.490
adviser on board. But,
877
01:08:38.490 --> 01:08:47.135
they said on Twitter that they will be always Bitcoin only, and so far that has been true. So, that's good. There is also there's XSets.
878
01:08:47.915 --> 01:08:52.335
I haven't used it myself yet, but that looks okay ish as well. It's rather new.
879
01:08:52.820 --> 01:08:54.600
There are some exchanges that do DCA.
880
01:08:54.980 --> 01:08:57.160
There is one in Austria that's called Bitpanda.
881
01:08:57.540 --> 01:09:00.040
I think it's available in Europe, in general,
882
01:09:00.345 --> 01:09:12.880
and you can set your auto DCA savings plan there as well. And, what I personally would recommend if you have a Kraken account, like, the the the thing with DCA is it's always up to now, it's still always bound to KYC.
883
01:09:13.420 --> 01:09:13.920
And,
884
01:09:14.300 --> 01:09:24.855
that's just something I think this problem will be solved somehow in the future, but for now, you you will have to go through KYC. But the problem is solved by your boss paying you under the table in fucking sats.
885
01:09:25.610 --> 01:09:29.929
Yeah. Of course. Like, that's that's the ideal, but but both people aren't there yet. Relay has,
886
01:09:30.409 --> 01:09:33.230
same as Bitr, like, Lite KYC. They only have
887
01:09:34.245 --> 01:09:35.225
they only have,
888
01:09:35.765 --> 01:09:43.680
your bank information. You don't have to actually, you know, like, give up a a stool sample and scan in your passport and and stuff like that. And there is also,
889
01:09:44.220 --> 01:09:57.985
what I would recommend if you have if you have an account by, on cracking already and you have a recipe blitz, then the best thing to do is install the recipe blitz cracking stacking sets plug in. And that's that was written by a friend of mine, Dennis Ryman.
890
01:09:58.460 --> 01:09:58.780
And,
891
01:09:59.340 --> 01:10:05.365
it it basically is just a cron job that uses the cracking API to stack for you. So you top up your cracking account
892
01:10:06.965 --> 01:10:15.510
and that you just have some field in your cracking account, and it just takes from there. And it it's it just stacks, like, every minute if you want to. So all all of those options are awesome. And,
893
01:10:16.050 --> 01:10:19.270
so you can do weekly, daily, and even, like, every minute,
894
01:10:19.890 --> 01:10:22.470
and can DCA in Europe, like, no no problem.
895
01:10:22.805 --> 01:10:27.065
And someone pointed out in the chat, maybe maybe it's good to hit on that as well. That's,
896
01:10:27.605 --> 01:10:28.905
everyone should go bisk.
897
01:10:29.285 --> 01:10:37.040
And I I I agree with the sentiment, and it would be great. I think we will have that at some point in the future, just like, you know, we had lightning was
898
01:10:37.685 --> 01:10:41.385
very hard to use in a noncustodial way, and now it isn't. And,
899
01:10:41.765 --> 01:10:46.105
mixing also, you know, like, now now we've joined market and everything goes into this
900
01:10:47.600 --> 01:10:49.620
better UX, non custodial
901
01:10:50.080 --> 01:10:55.575
direction. And I I I don't think there is a reason why you can't have very similar to toy market,
902
01:10:56.055 --> 01:11:01.790
like a bot or something that uses bisques and you you basically do auto DCA operations and you you just
903
01:11:02.510 --> 01:11:04.610
take care of what needs to be done and
904
01:11:05.150 --> 01:11:10.605
and power through a queue to just authorize payments or whatever. I I think that can come in the future, but,
905
01:11:11.085 --> 01:11:12.305
for now it's just,
906
01:11:13.645 --> 01:11:22.280
yeah, not possible to do. But I would what I would like to stress to everyone who's listening to this is the psychological benefits of auto DCA cannot be overstated.
907
01:11:22.740 --> 01:11:28.440
Like, just the difference between hitting a button and forcing yourself to stand up and buy daily or biweekly,
908
01:11:29.025 --> 01:11:40.600
And, you know, then price shoots up like 50%. Are you gonna do your weekly buy? No. Of course, you're not because you're a human being and you're like, oh, no. Now the price is too high. I'm gonna wait 2 days and so on and so forth. Like, it cannot be overstated how how great psychologically
909
01:11:41.139 --> 01:11:50.375
Auto DCA is. And I think still most Bitcoiners miss that because most, like, there's so many people that just don't auto DCA yet. And once you switch, I think there's just no going back.
910
01:11:51.074 --> 01:11:52.614
911
01:11:53.270 --> 01:11:55.590
fuck yes. Thank you, Gigi. That was a great,
912
01:11:56.150 --> 01:11:59.289
really great insight there. I agree with pretty much everything you said.
913
01:11:59.670 --> 01:12:00.550
I think what what
914
01:12:01.205 --> 01:12:06.105
a key thing here is, like so KYC is this idea is that they take all this personal information for you.
915
01:12:06.725 --> 01:12:10.810
They they take it's it's when they take your ID and they take your mailing address
916
01:12:11.210 --> 01:12:15.470
and, maybe passport information. All this different information, they take it from you,
917
01:12:15.930 --> 01:12:29.079
and they report it to their local regulators and they store it and they tie that to all your Bitcoin addresses. And this is very dangerous, especially dangerous if you're not using it with CoinJoin. And it's a trusted relationship. It's a trusted relationship where where you're trusting that organization
918
01:12:29.619 --> 01:12:33.079
with your private information. You're trusting anyone that they're sharing it with.
919
01:12:33.940 --> 01:12:35.000
All that said,
920
01:12:35.525 --> 01:12:36.665
I personally
921
01:12:37.125 --> 01:12:39.865
strongly believe that everyone should avoid KYC services
922
01:12:40.325 --> 01:12:43.305
except the one time where I think
923
01:12:43.700 --> 01:12:48.200
it's tolerable and it's it's it's, you know, it's not ideal. Obviously, it's not ideal
924
01:12:48.660 --> 01:12:52.840
is if you're if you're converting your KYC paycheck into Bitcoin automatically.
925
01:12:53.255 --> 01:12:57.034
And that's because it's already KYC'd. It's sitting in your KYC bank account already.
926
01:12:57.415 --> 01:13:11.815
And it it might as well just go through another KYC service, a single KYC service that you trust the most. You just leave it to a single one, and it just comes into Bitcoin and then you immediately coin join. And I think that that's like a a decent enough trade off balance there.
927
01:13:12.275 --> 01:13:14.454
And then on top of that, you could have your separate,
928
01:13:15.074 --> 01:13:16.375
KYC free stack,
929
01:13:16.840 --> 01:13:18.140
that you stack through bisque.
930
01:13:18.920 --> 01:13:22.460
And just because I've I fucking love the project, I just wanna do,
931
01:13:23.160 --> 01:13:25.260
I just wanna show a quick video on bisque,
932
01:13:25.825 --> 01:13:28.165
before we jump back into the discussion. So enjoy.
933
01:13:29.985 --> 01:13:32.245
There are many places to buy Bitcoin.
934
01:13:32.960 --> 01:13:34.980
They collect your personal information
935
01:13:35.760 --> 01:13:37.620
and jeopardize your privacy.
936
01:13:39.200 --> 01:13:41.780
KYC is the illicit activity.
937
01:13:43.825 --> 01:13:45.125
This is open source.
938
01:13:45.505 --> 01:13:47.605
It does not collect user data.
939
01:13:48.065 --> 01:13:49.845
You keep your private keys,
940
01:13:50.465 --> 01:13:55.929
create or take off to trade peer to peer, and keep your Bitcoin private and secure.
941
01:14:00.614 --> 01:14:02.235
So that's best. Check it out.
942
01:14:03.335 --> 01:14:05.895
943
01:14:07.400 --> 01:14:12.540
to defend my position that I think that all of that will come, like, non k y c, all the stacking and stuff like that.
944
01:14:12.920 --> 01:14:15.659
Just keep in mind what what's just said in this video
945
01:14:16.605 --> 01:14:30.190
is more profound than it seems because they said that Biscuit is open source. And the the thing about open source, free and open source software is it doesn't die, it doesn't go away. That's also why Bitcoin just doesn't die and and won't go away. Bisk that that like,
946
01:14:30.650 --> 01:14:32.590
what do you have to understand is that Bisk
947
01:14:33.165 --> 01:14:48.350
will outlive every single company that you can mention in the Bitcoin space right now. BISK will outlive Coinbase. It will out it it will just outlive all of it. That's that's why open source is winning, and that's why free software is winning. And so the sooner you understand that, the the sooner you also realize that that
948
01:14:49.035 --> 01:15:05.880
the way forward is with services like that. And the more, like, exposure to you get to something like that early, it's like, you know, I'm getting into Linux in in the nineties or or something like that, you know. Like Linux is still around and most operating systems and and other things are just not around. You know, it's just it's just the way
949
01:15:06.585 --> 01:15:11.405
that that this kind of these kind of things work. So that's something to keep in mind.
950
01:15:14.000 --> 01:15:19.220
And, yeah, sorry for the philosophical rant. I'm just, you know, the whiskey is talking. It's not me.
951
01:15:22.355 --> 01:15:24.855
952
01:15:25.315 --> 01:15:28.935
953
01:15:30.260 --> 01:15:34.260
about KYC. I I sort of, you know, I I view it as,
954
01:15:37.755 --> 01:15:40.495
basically inevitable part of reaching
955
01:15:40.955 --> 01:15:41.615
the mainstream.
956
01:15:43.675 --> 01:15:46.255
But Gigi's point here about, like, you know,
957
01:15:46.960 --> 01:15:47.780
open source,
958
01:15:49.199 --> 01:15:49.699
wins
959
01:15:50.320 --> 01:15:52.179
that certainly has been bearing out.
960
01:15:52.639 --> 01:15:53.139
And
961
01:15:53.440 --> 01:15:56.340
I I hope that it goes in that direction. And,
962
01:15:56.665 --> 01:15:57.165
like,
963
01:15:57.784 --> 01:15:59.704
I I frankly haven't used,
964
01:16:00.264 --> 01:16:03.244
non k y c services to acquire Bitcoin,
965
01:16:03.900 --> 01:16:07.280
because it's intimidating to me. I'm like, I'm not that technical of a person.
966
01:16:07.900 --> 01:16:11.200
It's kind of a miracle that I'm in bitcoin at this point, this early
967
01:16:11.545 --> 01:16:12.525
as it is because,
968
01:16:13.304 --> 01:16:15.085
I I, you know, I come at it from
969
01:16:15.465 --> 01:16:17.644
more of a a business numbers,
970
01:16:18.184 --> 01:16:19.244
big picture thinking,
971
01:16:20.105 --> 01:16:21.005
point of view
972
01:16:21.510 --> 01:16:24.250
and have less mastery of the technical side.
973
01:16:25.190 --> 01:16:29.210
So I haven't used that stuff and I and I don't really know how much I'm missing
974
01:16:30.075 --> 01:16:31.375
in terms of it's important.
975
01:16:32.555 --> 01:16:37.615
But I would like to use it because everybody else seems to think it's so important, but it's too intimidating
976
01:16:38.155 --> 01:16:42.210
for me still. So if this, and other open source things,
977
01:16:42.990 --> 01:16:46.130
you know, continue to improve and build on previous open source
978
01:16:47.005 --> 01:16:47.505
iterations,
979
01:16:48.284 --> 01:16:49.505
then that sounds great.
980
01:16:53.485 --> 01:16:54.784
981
01:16:55.540 --> 01:16:57.480
what you said about DCA being inevitable
982
01:16:57.860 --> 01:16:59.560
is very, very true. Because,
983
01:17:01.380 --> 01:17:05.994
if we continue to be right about these things, Bitcoin will just continue on its trajectory.
984
01:17:06.455 --> 01:17:19.280
And, it doesn't even matter if, like, this is the last cycle or, like, some, crazy macro guys are talking about or if it just continues to go up and down and up and down, and we have this bullet bear It's not a lot of cycle. Yeah. No. I don't think it is.
985
01:17:20.114 --> 01:17:28.695
It's it's so ridiculous that, you know, like, nobody was taking me seriously one and a half years ago when I was saying, like, you know, 2029, maybe, hyperbitcoinization,
986
01:17:29.074 --> 01:17:46.245
987
01:17:46.705 --> 01:17:53.170
988
01:17:53.949 --> 01:18:15.145
989
01:18:16.725 --> 01:18:17.225
990
01:18:18.165 --> 01:18:23.530
And and that's just a that's a function of just capturing the next incremental slice of the adoption curve,
991
01:18:24.070 --> 01:18:26.650
and it feels infinite at that point in time.
992
01:18:27.565 --> 01:18:30.065
But you've only just captured, you know, the next
993
01:18:30.525 --> 01:18:35.265
set of people that are potentially open to the idea of Bitcoin
994
01:18:35.920 --> 01:18:36.420
and
995
01:18:37.360 --> 01:18:46.555
are, you know, interested enough that the FOMO pulls them in for that cycle. And then, you know, 4 years later, you capture the next incremental size and so on.
996
01:18:48.775 --> 01:18:53.440
997
01:18:54.220 --> 01:19:14.000
we are still at a point where most of the world is forced to use fiat. And if you're forced to use fiat and forced to earn fiat, I mean, in a way, like, you're forced to earn fiat by society. Most people won't be pay you in sets. It it's just too complicated, too much of a hassle. There are some some people like Max Hollebrand for example and and others, that,
998
01:19:14.540 --> 01:19:15.360
live on a
999
01:19:15.660 --> 01:19:16.160
pure
1000
01:19:16.505 --> 01:19:25.245
Bitcoin standard and just like earn sets and nothing else pretty much and and spend sets and so on. But that's just, you know, like, that's that's the minority of the minority.
1001
01:19:26.010 --> 01:19:26.830
And I think,
1002
01:19:27.450 --> 01:19:30.990
DCA will be with us all throughout this process of Bitcoinization.
1003
01:19:31.450 --> 01:19:32.090
And just
1004
01:19:32.570 --> 01:19:59.735
if you if you're early and you you understand Bitcoin early, then you will save in sets because sets are the best savings technology. And you're still earning in fiat, and then you're converting a certain percentage to sets, and that's just your savings vehicle. What I think will be interesting is we will see reverse DCA as well. I think we will definitely see that. I I think we saw that already. Bitcoin is doing that. That Bitcoin just pumped so hard and you were you managed to save so many sets that you're just like, okay. I'm I'm set.
1005
01:20:00.594 --> 01:20:15.094
And I'm just I'm gonna buy a nice house or a small island or a boat or what have you, and I'm just Bitcoin is gonna pay my allowance. So you basically reverse DCA out of it because maybe you're you're renting a place not gonna happen. Some island. You're wrong, Gigi. That's a poor cake.
1006
01:20:15.795 --> 01:20:23.120
You think so? I think you will be forced I I I I think you will be forced to use fiat for a long time. No. No. No. No. Wrong.
1007
01:20:23.580 --> 01:20:29.935
So you think everyone you everyone will move to a a citadel island and it would just be circular,
1008
01:20:30.475 --> 01:20:35.375
1009
01:20:36.070 --> 01:20:45.449
of receiving payment quicker than anyone can really fathom. I mean, I I think as an American, you I I I witnessed this as a child. I mean, I would go to other countries,
1010
01:20:45.975 --> 01:20:47.335
and we kind of didn't, you know
1011
01:20:47.975 --> 01:20:59.100
if you don't wanna be a if you don't wanna be a dick, you should you should probably convert your money ahead of time. But, if you're American and you're traveling, it's not as as much the case now, especially not in Europe. You used to be able to just,
1012
01:20:59.815 --> 01:21:15.180
if you pulled out a greenback, it was preferable. You almost would get a better price, than if if you paid them in their local currency. You could get a better conversion rate if you just paid directly in that in that better money. And Bitcoin is is obviously the better money.
1013
01:21:15.880 --> 01:21:24.345
So how long till it takes for for the majority to realize that? And I think there's a turning point here where where it's it's not it's not nearly as long as people think it is.
1014
01:21:24.725 --> 01:21:29.550
So maybe, like, if if you're a high time preference whore and you're you're trying to,
1015
01:21:30.270 --> 01:21:36.035
get out get out of sats in the next 5 years, then then maybe okay, then there's some room for that. But I think,
1016
01:21:36.755 --> 01:21:39.895
past that, like, you're just gonna be paying for things in SaaS, baby.
1017
01:21:41.635 --> 01:21:49.230
1018
01:21:49.690 --> 01:21:50.670
1019
01:21:51.565 --> 01:21:58.065
1020
01:21:59.520 --> 01:22:03.940
American perspective of, you know, like everyone would just pay, take your dollars because
1021
01:22:04.240 --> 01:22:06.020
just because that's how the world works,
1022
01:22:06.320 --> 01:22:08.100
as a poor European
1023
01:22:08.545 --> 01:22:09.045
pleb
1024
01:22:09.985 --> 01:22:15.445
that still remembers, you know, like, shit coins like the Italian lira, man. That's I don't I don't know that.
1025
01:22:16.440 --> 01:22:17.260
It's just
1026
01:22:18.040 --> 01:22:27.555
I I I don't know good money. I didn't grow up with good money. So, yeah, you might be right. I think I think you will be very right in cyberspace. I think we see that already. You know? Like, we see projects,
1027
01:22:28.175 --> 01:22:34.159
like Citadel 21, for example. They they have a circular economy already. Like, everyone who who did something for them,
1028
01:22:34.560 --> 01:22:59.805
got paid in Sats, like those people that that got paid and they only sell their stuff for Sats. We will see that in the Bitcoin space, like, I I think we will we will see that continue, and I think we will that will spread out quickly. Like, if you if you're selling digital things, digital goods, and or, like, if for god's sakes, like, if if you're a cam girl or a gamer or something, someone who just takes tips and and and so on, I think the centralized platforms because of censorship will die, and I think that,
1029
01:23:00.285 --> 01:23:07.030
1030
01:23:07.410 --> 01:23:07.910
1031
01:23:09.010 --> 01:23:10.950
1032
01:23:14.935 --> 01:23:26.770
So I agree with everything you guys are saying, but I think it's just so much earlier. Like, it I think from the vantage point of a Bitcoin, it doesn't feel that early, but it's so much earlier than than we realized because
1033
01:23:28.270 --> 01:23:31.795
so, like, I wanna I wanna pull Matt and Gigi,
1034
01:23:33.614 --> 01:23:35.955
how many Bitcoin maximalists or
1035
01:23:36.735 --> 01:23:38.675
put a different way, how many people
1036
01:23:39.030 --> 01:23:39.850
in the world,
1037
01:23:41.430 --> 01:23:47.450
view Bitcoin as their unit of account, like, today? How many do you think we're at? There's, like, dozens of us.
1038
01:23:48.705 --> 01:23:51.364
1039
01:23:52.864 --> 01:23:54.804
1040
01:23:56.690 --> 01:24:00.389
or self conscious when I when I get particularly drunk on some of these podcasts.
1041
01:24:01.409 --> 01:24:02.469
But I I think
1042
01:24:03.515 --> 01:24:11.695
I, you know, I think that's where it really shows if if if if Sats are unit of count or not. If you can just if you can just drunkenly,
1043
01:24:13.060 --> 01:24:19.560
rattle off stats conversions and that, like, that's where you default to. Like, that that that's where unit of count gets stable,
1044
01:24:20.865 --> 01:24:30.780
in the minds of of many is is when they're when they're drunken and about, and, that's what they're thinking in. My problem is that for the longest time, like, even with the drop down to,
1045
01:24:31.480 --> 01:24:44.605
1046
01:24:45.000 --> 01:24:48.380
1047
01:24:48.760 --> 01:24:50.380
so so, actually, there's a
1048
01:24:51.000 --> 01:24:54.555
we were we did a special for I did a special with Bitcoin Magazine,
1049
01:24:55.335 --> 01:24:57.115
for proof of keys for Bitcoin's,
1050
01:24:57.655 --> 01:24:58.635
12th birthday.
1051
01:24:59.335 --> 01:25:00.315
And I'm interviewing
1052
01:25:00.695 --> 01:25:06.930
or I I was just really having a free flowing conversation with Wiz and Catan, and we passed 30 k for the first time ever.
1053
01:25:08.165 --> 01:25:22.290
And in that conversation, you can see it on the block clock, but I had no idea that it was that we had passed 30 k, but I was already rattling off my Sats conversions in that conversation based on 30 k. Like, I I once we hit, like, 26 k, I I moved up to 30.
1054
01:25:23.045 --> 01:25:33.960
You know, it's, like, you you have to you have to keep I move with the hard numbers because, I mean, otherwise like, the math is ridiculous. I mean, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna do it on anything less than a 10 k change.
1055
01:25:35.860 --> 01:25:41.080
1056
01:25:42.685 --> 01:25:52.340
as long as my sats on their own do their little n g u and every day I have a a a small amount of sats more, then that's good. That's a good day, you know. And
1057
01:25:52.640 --> 01:25:59.300
my block clock only shows the block time because that's all that matters. As long as blocks are coming in, everything is sandy and sunny in cyberspace.
1058
01:25:59.995 --> 01:26:01.615
And we're now at 664-696.
1059
01:26:02.875 --> 01:26:03.695
There you go.
1060
01:26:04.475 --> 01:26:22.325
And so I think, you know, the set conversion. I think it will Bitcoin has to settle down a little bit for for that to work for more people and What is the point you need to settle down? The dollar is too volatile. The dollar should settle down in ZAT's terms. Yeah. The dollar should just go away, and then we can we can just stick with Sats.
1061
01:26:23.425 --> 01:26:28.005
1062
01:26:29.570 --> 01:26:31.430
The the number of dollars in circulation?
1063
01:26:32.210 --> 01:26:33.830
1064
01:26:34.370 --> 01:26:37.750
1065
01:26:38.195 --> 01:26:40.375
1066
01:26:42.435 --> 01:26:42.755
Yeah.
1067
01:26:43.474 --> 01:26:47.820
I I think, you know, we're in for a wild ride, and I think 2021
1068
01:26:48.200 --> 01:26:51.020
will be a fun year for Bitcoiners and
1069
01:26:51.640 --> 01:26:54.219
a year full of pain for most
1070
01:26:54.835 --> 01:26:55.875
most people.
1071
01:26:57.315 --> 01:26:59.415
So, yeah, Bitcoiners and Contelionaires
1072
01:26:59.955 --> 01:27:03.910
will profit, I guess, and everyone else won't. So I think
1073
01:27:04.690 --> 01:27:06.310
it's it's very hard to
1074
01:27:06.850 --> 01:27:14.204
again, as Matt said as well, it's it's it's so hard to stay humble, but but I think I think just economically speaking in in the macro landscape and just,
1075
01:27:14.665 --> 01:27:15.724
with everything that
1076
01:27:17.180 --> 01:27:19.760
happened because of corona and lockdowns. I think
1077
01:27:20.140 --> 01:27:22.780
I think it's gonna be ugly, and I think, you know, it's
1078
01:27:23.900 --> 01:27:31.445
the the stuff that I'm struggling with the most is that I think we're still living in peacetime. And I I have the feeling that, you know, it just
1079
01:27:32.005 --> 01:27:32.825
up to now,
1080
01:27:33.460 --> 01:27:45.855
even with all the civil wars and and and other things, Bitcoin kinda had a somewhat, I would say, smooth ride in a way. I've you you know, like, there was not a full out on like full on war on Bitcoiners or on Bitcoin.
1081
01:27:46.155 --> 01:27:46.655
And
1082
01:27:47.755 --> 01:27:48.255
I'm
1083
01:27:48.635 --> 01:27:54.180
I think Seifedean has interesting opinions on that as well because he mentions that it might be, like, just
1084
01:27:54.640 --> 01:27:58.180
maybe there won't be any war coming and it would just be a gradual
1085
01:28:00.065 --> 01:28:16.995
a gradual opting out of field system and a gradual adoption of the Bitcoin standard, and that would be very beautiful in a way. But it's also hard to tell what kind of side effects that would bring because I would say the transition to the Internet, like, you know, the death of the newspapers and, of other traditional media and print media.
1086
01:28:17.855 --> 01:28:22.915
It kinda happened gradually, I I would say, but it wasn't without its side effects. So
1087
01:28:23.360 --> 01:28:32.900
what keeps me up at night sometimes is just thinking about potential side effects and also thinking about a potential, like, nation state attack kind of war on Bitcoin on on Bitcoin was coming.
1088
01:28:33.345 --> 01:28:36.965
1089
01:28:37.745 --> 01:28:43.890
Crow asking how many people are pricing in SaaS, and I jokingly said dozens. But, like, let's be realistic, like, less than a1000.
1090
01:28:44.670 --> 01:28:50.415
Cool. Right? And, like, if if we're talking about it, how many Bitcoiners are running are using their own full node?
1091
01:28:51.615 --> 01:28:56.995
It's like max in the tens of thousands probably. Right? And we're talking about how many people are using CoinJoin,
1092
01:28:57.510 --> 01:29:01.370
Like, what? It's, like, probably in a similar range, maybe a little bit less than that.
1093
01:29:01.910 --> 01:29:05.130
Self custody. What are we at at self custody? Like, maybe a1000000?
1094
01:29:06.215 --> 01:29:06.715
2,000,000?
1095
01:29:07.255 --> 01:29:08.795
1096
01:29:09.574 --> 01:29:10.074
1097
01:29:10.855 --> 01:29:11.994
0.1 Bitcoin.
1098
01:29:13.160 --> 01:29:15.900
1099
01:29:16.280 --> 01:29:16.780
1100
01:29:17.880 --> 01:29:18.380
Right.
1101
01:29:18.680 --> 01:29:23.304
1102
01:29:25.605 --> 01:29:28.664
1103
01:29:29.445 --> 01:29:36.570
tweet threads, I did this exercise of, like, what are what are we at in terms of progress of adoption through the s curve
1104
01:29:37.030 --> 01:29:50.680
for the different, like, levels of Bitcoin adoption, which is to say, like, you know, at first somebody might own $20 worth of Bitcoin and that counts by some metrics. You know, some people say like, oh, there's like a 150,000,000
1105
01:29:51.140 --> 01:30:03.845
people who own digital assets and that's really what they're capturing is people who have, like, plenty of money in it. And then there's, you know, people who have like a 1% hedge. There's people who have like a significant position of like 10 or 20%.
1106
01:30:04.610 --> 01:30:06.710
And then there's people who have like over 50%.
1107
01:30:07.329 --> 01:30:07.829
And
1108
01:30:08.610 --> 01:30:11.909
when I tried to like walk through the exercise of of what is that,
1109
01:30:12.385 --> 01:30:15.605
looks like a reasonable number for that final group,
1110
01:30:16.305 --> 01:30:20.325
I came up with like a at most and it's probably well
1111
01:30:20.760 --> 01:30:24.380
under this number, but I I came up with 250,000 people
1112
01:30:24.680 --> 01:30:29.740
have reached the point where the majority of their money is in Bitcoin, which means that we're at, like,
1113
01:30:30.485 --> 01:30:30.985
0.01%
1114
01:30:32.165 --> 01:30:32.665
penetration
1115
01:30:33.525 --> 01:30:36.025
of of the eventual total adoption.
1116
01:30:36.485 --> 01:30:40.239
It's so early that it's impossible for me to to to imagine
1117
01:30:41.020 --> 01:30:43.040
everyone else figuring it out
1118
01:30:43.659 --> 01:30:45.440
even in the next 10 years.
1119
01:30:48.035 --> 01:30:52.195
1120
01:30:52.995 --> 01:30:55.575
not everyone has to figure it out, you know? Like,
1121
01:30:56.330 --> 01:31:31.830
not everyone understands the Internet who is using the Internet and I'm you you also have to think in terms of infrastructure inversion. Like, there was a point in time, I I always call it the voice over IP moment, where most phones in the developed world switched to voice over IP and just are using the Internet underneath, but they still work the same way and look the same way. And I think the same will be true in Bitcoin as well. Like the Internet just gobbled everything up. It ate everything up exponentially that has to do with information. And I think Bitcoin will eat everything up that has to do with value and money and the the transfer of money, and settlement of money, and so on and so forth. And
1122
01:31:32.130 --> 01:31:42.414
I think Bitcoin's voice of IP moment is coming, and I think that will be a huge boost. I think the the whole the whole adoption s curve and if you're interested in that, SkyBridge
1123
01:31:42.715 --> 01:31:54.364
brought out a great report very recently. They have this adoption s curve in it as well. Which mooch the Mooches Fund? Scaramoochies Fund? Yeah. I think so. Yeah. Yeah. It was literally just a deck full of Bitcoin Twitter memes.
1124
01:31:54.745 --> 01:31:56.205
Yeah. It was. It's great.
1125
01:31:58.025 --> 01:32:08.840
1126
01:32:09.275 --> 01:32:15.054
as experts. So that is that's what the MBAs will do. We're coming, and it's not gonna be very appreciated.
1127
01:32:17.650 --> 01:32:25.670
1128
01:32:27.385 --> 01:32:30.845
And in in this report, they also have, like, this s curve analysis,
1129
01:32:31.465 --> 01:32:31.965
like,
1130
01:32:32.585 --> 01:32:33.965
potential adoption analysis.
1131
01:32:34.470 --> 01:32:34.970
And,
1132
01:32:35.510 --> 01:32:44.074
they I think they they said, and we see this s curve graphs all the time, and I think we're still before on most the stuff that I see, we're still before
1133
01:32:44.455 --> 01:32:47.594
the early adopters. Like, like, the early adopters started,
1134
01:32:47.975 --> 01:32:48.875
I don't know, 66.9%
1135
01:32:49.735 --> 01:32:54.250
1136
01:32:54.870 --> 01:32:58.250
1137
01:32:58.725 --> 01:33:08.820
in the in the SkyBridge report, I think they only took the American market and they picked the number like 10%. Like, 10% of Americans in 2020 own Bitcoin somehow.
1138
01:33:09.520 --> 01:33:10.420
And so
1139
01:33:11.119 --> 01:33:13.619
what they what they see is that,
1140
01:33:14.159 --> 01:33:16.179
in 2029, which is my
1141
01:33:16.595 --> 01:33:18.114
hyperbitcoinization prediction data,
1142
01:33:18.755 --> 01:33:19.255
90%
1143
01:33:20.195 --> 01:33:48.420
of Americans will are are projected to own Bitcoin. And I think the voice of IP moment moment, like the infrastructure inversion, like the news came out I think yesterday or today in the morning or something that banks are now allowed to settle in Bitcoin and use use Bitcoin, like use open block blockchains for settlement. I think that was the the language used. And when that happens, the same thing that hap that happened with the telephones will happen. You know, like, everyone is still using their kind of cards and smartwatches and whatnot to pay and, just everything will work as normal.
1144
01:33:48.800 --> 01:34:14.145
But there will be a lot of demand for block space underneath just for settlement, and that will change everything. And and suddenly you have an insane bull market, and you have an insane s curve, you know, like you and this large adoption s curve is made up of smaller s curves, and those are the cycles that we see. And at at some point in time, it doesn't make sense anymore to measure these cycles in dollars. And that's, I think, when it makes sense to to speak of a breaking point of it, like, a hyperbitcoinization
1145
01:34:14.525 --> 01:34:15.025
point.
1146
01:34:16.820 --> 01:34:21.000
1147
01:34:21.540 --> 01:34:26.825
that we should just if you're a new Bitcoiner out there and you're using something like Robinhood or Revolut,
1148
01:34:27.525 --> 01:34:29.705
that doesn't allow you to withdraw your Bitcoin,
1149
01:34:30.405 --> 01:34:32.505
you should immediately use another platform.
1150
01:34:33.370 --> 01:34:38.590
That that is that they're not actually selling Bitcoin, PayPal as well. They're not actually selling Bitcoin. If you can't withdraw,
1151
01:34:40.250 --> 01:34:46.815
then then there's no point. Ultimately, even if you're not gonna withdraw right away, you should the goal should be to withdraw eventually and,
1152
01:34:47.215 --> 01:34:53.750
take custody yourself and and control your own money. Otherwise, you don't have that value prop. You can get locked out of your funds, so just be aware of that.
1153
01:34:54.130 --> 01:34:56.630
The second thing is you mentioned this OCC news.
1154
01:34:57.250 --> 01:35:08.125
Jack Blatchford actually asked us about 40 minutes ago about it, and I did wanna circle back to it. So just tell the freaks out there in in the audience, don't get discouraged, you know, if you keep hitting us with questions.
1155
01:35:08.620 --> 01:35:11.440
We we will hopefully discuss them, here.
1156
01:35:11.980 --> 01:35:16.560
So so do you think this is bullish, Gigi? You you made it seem like this is very bullish.
1157
01:35:16.994 --> 01:35:19.655
To me, it was kind of a non story. Am I wrong?
1158
01:35:21.235 --> 01:35:22.295
1159
01:35:23.074 --> 01:35:29.750
it's very hard for me to answer if if that is bullish or not. Like, in a sense, everything is good for Bitcoin. And the way I see this is
1160
01:35:30.370 --> 01:35:31.250
there there is, like
1161
01:35:32.370 --> 01:35:43.175
first of all, Bitcoin doesn't care. It really doesn't matter. And you can decide how you want to interact with Bitcoin and how you use it. And Bitcoin's fundamentals haven't changed. Bitcoin's value proposition hasn't changed. And if you're,
1162
01:35:44.000 --> 01:35:44.500
like
1163
01:35:45.040 --> 01:35:49.060
an Adcap, Bitcoin, or in a circular economy, this does this doesn't phase you at all.
1164
01:35:50.485 --> 01:35:51.784
But in terms of adoption
1165
01:35:52.085 --> 01:35:53.625
and in terms of gaining,
1166
01:35:54.324 --> 01:35:54.824
legitimacy,
1167
01:35:55.364 --> 01:35:57.945
it might be, you know, like, it's very hard to be,
1168
01:35:58.790 --> 01:36:00.730
an an investor that said
1169
01:36:01.350 --> 01:36:13.265
the line for the last 5 years that Bitcoin is only for people that do illegal things. And, you know, like, that's kind of true now because now banks use it and they're doing all kinds of illegal things. But you get my point, you know, like it's it's,
1170
01:36:14.690 --> 01:36:24.135
I I don't think it's a non story. We will see what comes next because what I what news PG, it's shitcoiner news. I think, yes, everything's good for Bitcoin, but,
1171
01:36:24.935 --> 01:36:35.420
1172
01:36:36.280 --> 01:36:39.305
and I think this is a shitcoin story. I think this is,
1173
01:36:39.945 --> 01:36:42.285
you know, so called stable coins and,
1174
01:36:43.465 --> 01:36:46.125
you know, these these are these are short term things.
1175
01:36:46.425 --> 01:36:49.930
I think banks banks integrating Bitcoin is an inevitability,
1176
01:36:51.430 --> 01:36:55.930
but I I don't I I a self sovereign Bitcoin user gives 2 shits.
1177
01:36:56.525 --> 01:37:04.385
1178
01:37:05.600 --> 01:37:06.580
you know, like,
1179
01:37:07.280 --> 01:37:16.454
digital euros and digital dollars and just central bank, quote, unquote, blockchain money and all that kind of shit. All of all of that was it's going to come. Like,
1180
01:37:16.994 --> 01:37:19.655
we saw just individuals coming up with their own,
1181
01:37:20.034 --> 01:37:21.655
spin on shit coins in 2017.
1182
01:37:22.810 --> 01:37:36.635
And, it got more sophisticated over the years. And now we're gonna have, like, nation states and central banks do it. And that's gonna be bad. A lot of a lot of people will lose a lot of money, and a lot of people will just miss out on Bitcoin because of it. But I also think, you know, just like
1183
01:37:37.415 --> 01:37:37.915
2017
1184
01:37:38.375 --> 01:37:39.275
was kind of,
1185
01:37:40.860 --> 01:37:48.560
I wouldn't necessarily say it was a necessity or something, but it's it's kind of inevitable in an open system. And I think we will just need to
1186
01:37:49.005 --> 01:37:54.465
clean away this sludge that's that's going to happen. And Bitcoin will be fine, I think. Bitcoin will
1187
01:37:54.765 --> 01:37:55.985
survive all that.
1188
01:37:56.380 --> 01:38:11.405
And and I I believe that Bitcoin will survive all that because it is built for survival and shit coins are not built for survival. And they're just built to enrich a small group of people, and it doesn't matter who is behind the shitcoin. So so in the end, I think things are going to be fine. Just,
1189
01:38:11.785 --> 01:38:20.820
you know, let let the the next shitcoin wave wash over you and just keep stacking and keep being productive and ignore the the shitcoin news as much as you can.
1190
01:38:22.045 --> 01:38:24.865
1191
01:38:26.125 --> 01:38:33.210
Not actually, like, for any directories and and I totally agree that that more than anything, it's getting a lot of press in
1192
01:38:33.510 --> 01:38:36.490
the crypto community because it gives hope
1193
01:38:37.030 --> 01:38:37.690
to altcoiners.
1194
01:38:39.265 --> 01:38:41.285
But I think what it tells me
1195
01:38:41.745 --> 01:38:43.685
is that so the the OCC,
1196
01:38:44.625 --> 01:38:46.085
generally provides guidance
1197
01:38:46.929 --> 01:38:47.429
when
1198
01:38:47.730 --> 01:38:49.590
large banks request,
1199
01:38:51.090 --> 01:38:54.070
specific guidance on a topic. They when they petition
1200
01:38:54.530 --> 01:38:55.429
to have some,
1201
01:38:56.195 --> 01:39:03.655
have the rights to do something that they think would be, positive for their businesses. That's the only way those g issues guidance.
1202
01:39:04.330 --> 01:39:07.070
So this means that the banks want to
1203
01:39:07.930 --> 01:39:09.630
start using digital assets
1204
01:39:10.330 --> 01:39:10.730
to,
1205
01:39:11.210 --> 01:39:12.670
exchange money between them
1206
01:39:13.290 --> 01:39:14.030
between themselves.
1207
01:39:15.565 --> 01:39:19.025
And more than anything, that's like just like a big crack
1208
01:39:19.725 --> 01:39:20.945
in the wall between
1209
01:39:21.380 --> 01:39:22.679
the traditional system
1210
01:39:23.059 --> 01:39:24.040
and embracing
1211
01:39:24.420 --> 01:39:24.920
Bitcoin
1212
01:39:25.460 --> 01:39:27.639
that is now there, that wasn't there,
1213
01:39:28.500 --> 01:39:29.559
a few days ago.
1214
01:39:30.500 --> 01:39:31.000
And
1215
01:39:31.845 --> 01:39:39.545
that trend, you know, goes in one direction of that wall will keep getting cracks added to it until it just falls apart.
1216
01:39:40.010 --> 01:39:40.510
And,
1217
01:39:41.370 --> 01:39:42.910
you know, the way that finance
1218
01:39:43.530 --> 01:39:44.670
operates is
1219
01:39:45.130 --> 01:39:47.790
fully integrated with Bitcoin as a settlement
1220
01:39:48.810 --> 01:39:49.310
layer.
1221
01:39:50.155 --> 01:39:56.895
So it doesn't directly mean that much, but it says that there's a lot going on behind the scenes of banks
1222
01:39:57.400 --> 01:39:58.700
actively leaning into,
1223
01:39:59.320 --> 01:40:01.500
like, adopting digital assets
1224
01:40:01.800 --> 01:40:06.844
and yeah, that might mean altcoins for now but we all know where that goes, Torrance, eventually.
1225
01:40:08.585 --> 01:40:10.525
And it means that that that
1226
01:40:12.690 --> 01:40:13.190
mainstream
1227
01:40:13.650 --> 01:40:14.630
opinion of
1228
01:40:14.930 --> 01:40:16.710
digital assets is like a viable
1229
01:40:17.250 --> 01:40:17.750
technology,
1230
01:40:18.210 --> 01:40:22.735
just took a a step forward. Not a leap forward, but a solid step forward
1231
01:40:23.435 --> 01:40:25.055
and that's not gonna reverse.
1232
01:40:29.139 --> 01:40:35.639
1233
01:40:36.065 --> 01:40:48.610
that people are gonna pretend are way more bullish than they are. And and and media is gonna hype the shit out of them because it gets them more clicks. And and historically in the past, it's been the CoinDesk of the world, the blocks of
1234
01:40:48.910 --> 01:40:49.410
the
1235
01:40:49.790 --> 01:40:50.199
of the
1236
01:40:51.205 --> 01:41:03.679
but now it's even the main media. We had Fox Business saying that the OCC pumped price of Bitcoin and that's why the price of Bitcoin is going up. The reality is is the head of the OCC is the former lead lawyer of Coinbase,
1237
01:41:04.219 --> 01:41:06.639
and Coinbase has been obsessed with this bullshit
1238
01:41:07.105 --> 01:41:09.125
fucking stable coins nonsense.
1239
01:41:09.905 --> 01:41:14.085
And they've completely missed, you know, the forest for the trees here. Like, obviously,
1240
01:41:14.440 --> 01:41:22.860
like, Sats are my stable coin. Like, the stable coins don't solve anything. They're they're tied to a shitty money that is not stable inherently,
1241
01:41:23.560 --> 01:41:24.060
and
1242
01:41:24.365 --> 01:41:29.505
and they require trusted third party to use that is gonna be regulated. So the whole censorship resistance
1243
01:41:30.445 --> 01:41:34.949
value prop, the key reason I think the majority of us is here and why had things have value
1244
01:41:35.329 --> 01:41:37.269
doesn't exist for them. So,
1245
01:41:37.570 --> 01:41:40.789
of course, when he becomes, you know, the head of the OCC,
1246
01:41:41.465 --> 01:41:43.645
banks are allowed to use their, you know,
1247
01:41:44.025 --> 01:41:44.525
regulated
1248
01:41:45.465 --> 01:41:45.965
their
1249
01:41:46.905 --> 01:41:51.085
their VC chains and all this. I I don't I don't think it really
1250
01:41:51.690 --> 01:41:59.995
I don't think it's a bad thing. I think everything's good for Bitcoin, but I just don't I think the hype isn't there. That that the the hype isn't is where where it should be here.
1251
01:42:00.875 --> 01:42:01.855
1252
01:42:02.395 --> 01:42:03.935
I fully agree with all that.
1253
01:42:04.315 --> 01:42:08.495
And, you know, maybe maybe the real utility of this this news
1254
01:42:09.090 --> 01:42:12.790
is simply that it generates hype and attention and attracts
1255
01:42:13.170 --> 01:42:13.670
interest,
1256
01:42:14.930 --> 01:42:16.630
to the whole space because,
1257
01:42:17.315 --> 01:42:21.815
you know, even if you even if it's a requirement to go through some
1258
01:42:22.195 --> 01:42:24.280
altcoiner stage, which it isn't, but,
1259
01:42:25.239 --> 01:42:27.099
even if you have to go through that journey
1260
01:42:27.400 --> 01:42:28.860
to eventually get to Bitcoin,
1261
01:42:30.119 --> 01:42:34.139
every little piece of news that pops up on CNN or Forbes or whatever,
1262
01:42:35.705 --> 01:42:38.845
makes makes the people who've been sitting on the sidelines watching
1263
01:42:39.625 --> 01:42:40.845
Bitcoin go up,
1264
01:42:41.625 --> 01:42:45.489
have just a little bit more FOMO and make them a little bit closer to jumping in.
1265
01:42:45.869 --> 01:42:46.369
And,
1266
01:42:46.829 --> 01:42:53.345
you know, maybe that's the the utility that this news provides is it just adds to this pile of FOMO that's gonna
1267
01:42:53.965 --> 01:42:56.545
force people eventually over the next year
1268
01:42:56.925 --> 01:42:58.625
to to jump into Bitcoin.
1269
01:42:59.420 --> 01:43:01.739
1270
01:43:02.140 --> 01:43:18.155
I that I why I brought it up in the first place and why I think it is more bullish than you might give it credit for. And this is the infrastructure inversion topic because we won't see the mainstream banks settling anything on Bitcoin anytime soon. But what I think we will see is,
1271
01:43:19.239 --> 01:43:20.860
Bitcoin companies, they
1272
01:43:21.239 --> 01:43:26.860
they have the motivation now to actually become a bank and do that in a in like, be able
1273
01:43:27.239 --> 01:43:27.980
to settle
1274
01:43:28.395 --> 01:43:30.175
their payments globally in Bitcoin,
1275
01:43:30.875 --> 01:43:31.375
also
1276
01:43:32.715 --> 01:43:37.219
inside a jurisdiction where this is legal. You know? Like, you you can, of course,
1277
01:43:37.599 --> 01:43:39.860
just try to do it and break the law, whatever.
1278
01:43:40.480 --> 01:43:50.034
But I think I think this is one step towards this infrastructure inversion. And I I see a world already. Like, for me, this is crystal clear that this is going to happen, that
1279
01:43:50.335 --> 01:43:50.835
just
1280
01:43:52.220 --> 01:43:52.720
apps
1281
01:43:53.100 --> 01:44:00.240
like Cash App and and Strike and everyone who is working on the payment rails side of things, so to speak,
1282
01:44:00.685 --> 01:44:11.160
They they will there there will be a point where you can just basically do what WeChat and Alipay is doing in China, but you do it on Bitcoin and you do it in a in a free and censorship resistant way.
1283
01:44:11.940 --> 01:44:15.240
I might be wrong, you know, like, I can see the possibility.
1284
01:44:16.100 --> 01:44:19.715
But I I think I think that it's one step towards,
1285
01:44:21.535 --> 01:44:24.114
the also the regulatory framework,
1286
01:44:24.975 --> 01:44:30.120
where something like that goes way, way easier for the companies that are actually working on that.
1287
01:44:39.645 --> 01:44:44.225
1288
01:44:45.120 --> 01:44:48.820
And I think it it'll be pretty obvious, like, as things start to play out,
1289
01:44:50.080 --> 01:44:51.620
which stories are
1290
01:44:52.665 --> 01:44:55.805
are are are are are noise and which stories are signal.
1291
01:44:57.305 --> 01:44:57.805
And
1292
01:44:58.345 --> 01:45:01.165
I just caution people to just be wary.
1293
01:45:01.620 --> 01:45:08.280
We're at the beginning of the precipice of a massive run here, and there's gonna be so much noise, and there's gonna be so much bullshit.
1294
01:45:08.635 --> 01:45:12.575
And really at the end of the day, like, most of the shit doesn't matter,
1295
01:45:13.675 --> 01:45:15.935
and and Bitcoin will just keep trucking on.
1296
01:45:16.920 --> 01:45:26.355
I I want to When when ETF when ETF, man? When ETF. Yeah. Exactly. VanEck just recently launched their ETF again, so I'm sure we'll hear a bunch of stuff about that.
1297
01:45:28.015 --> 01:45:30.835
Where did I wanna bring this to? I wanted to bring this to something.
1298
01:45:33.440 --> 01:45:35.060
Someone mentioned in here
1299
01:45:38.560 --> 01:45:48.795
so so so someone mentioned earlier, they said coin join. Why do people say you should CoinJoin if you KYC and you should CoinJoin if you use Bisc and you're not and you're not using KYC?
1300
01:45:49.230 --> 01:45:52.850
And the reason is because CoinJoin is at its essence is is
1301
01:45:53.310 --> 01:45:57.170
a is a batch Bitcoin send transaction. It's a Bitcoin transaction
1302
01:45:57.645 --> 01:46:10.610
that uses best practices in terms of privacy. And if you don't want the person who sends you Bitcoin, whether that's Bisk or whether, you know, an individual on Bisq, whether that's your employee employer who's paying you in Bitcoin,
1303
01:46:11.070 --> 01:46:12.850
whether it's a customer at your store,
1304
01:46:13.445 --> 01:46:15.705
whether that's Cash App who's sending it to you,
1305
01:46:16.165 --> 01:46:26.920
you if you don't want that person to know your total balances, all your future transactions, then you have to use CoinJoin. And the same goes for people you pay pay you pay. And if you pay someone you don't want them to know,
1306
01:46:27.699 --> 01:46:31.995
your current balance, your future balance, future transactions, you're gonna you're gonna need to use CoinJoin.
1307
01:46:33.895 --> 01:46:39.115
And and this is just something that people need to keep in mind because Bitcoin is an open ledger that's out there forever.
1308
01:46:39.480 --> 01:46:52.435
And and if we're right, it's it's gonna exist forever and it's never gonna change. So so you're gonna just have this ledger of every single transaction you've ever made. And if you made a mistake, it's gonna screw you in the future. So you need to start educating yourself on that now.
1309
01:46:53.055 --> 01:46:54.435
Couple good guides are bitcoinprivacy.guide.
1310
01:46:56.095 --> 01:46:56.595
Usewhirlpool.com
1311
01:46:57.215 --> 01:46:59.780
as a coinjoin specific guide. 6102
1312
01:47:00.480 --> 01:47:00.980
bitcoin.com.
1313
01:47:02.640 --> 01:47:04.500
Oh, no. Bitcoin dash only.com/hashtagprivacy
1314
01:47:06.720 --> 01:47:07.700
is another one.
1315
01:47:08.695 --> 01:47:11.034
You should work on his domains. I think I have btcprivacy.org
1316
01:47:11.895 --> 01:47:14.875
redirect to that. But, anyway, there's a bunch of shills out for that.
1317
01:47:15.494 --> 01:47:15.994
6102
1318
01:47:16.580 --> 01:47:19.000
did have a question. That's what I wanted to bring up,
1319
01:47:19.460 --> 01:47:25.640
about Taproot. Do we think that this price appreciation is gonna delay Taproot activation? What do we think about Taproot activation?
1320
01:47:28.925 --> 01:47:31.744
1321
01:47:32.445 --> 01:47:33.585
on on a delay.
1322
01:47:34.764 --> 01:47:35.665
I I think
1323
01:47:37.150 --> 01:47:38.850
I I think I think we will
1324
01:47:39.150 --> 01:47:40.290
see it this year,
1325
01:47:41.470 --> 01:47:43.890
and I think support is strong in general.
1326
01:47:44.535 --> 01:47:46.315
Last time I checked, it was, like, 95%
1327
01:47:46.695 --> 01:47:48.155
plus on Taproot activation.
1328
01:47:48.695 --> 01:47:50.155
And I I think it's
1329
01:47:50.455 --> 01:47:51.755
just in general,
1330
01:47:52.350 --> 01:47:54.850
this process is slow and should be slow.
1331
01:47:55.630 --> 01:47:56.770
But I think that
1332
01:47:57.469 --> 01:47:57.969
most
1333
01:47:58.270 --> 01:48:00.270
people agree that this is an,
1334
01:48:00.830 --> 01:48:01.330
like,
1335
01:48:01.635 --> 01:48:03.335
a great upgrade, and
1336
01:48:03.635 --> 01:48:07.975
the the risks are, I think, kind of well understood and
1337
01:48:09.010 --> 01:48:11.350
not too big in the 1st place. So
1338
01:48:12.130 --> 01:48:13.030
I I think
1339
01:48:13.410 --> 01:48:13.570
in
1340
01:48:14.530 --> 01:48:25.565
the the reason why I think that the price action doesn't delay too much is that most people that are actually working on Taproot and working on the activation and stuff like that, they've been around for a long while. I think they have their way of
1341
01:48:26.220 --> 01:48:28.160
of, you know, like, their info.
1342
01:48:28.540 --> 01:48:30.720
1343
01:48:32.140 --> 01:48:36.195
You think so? You think it really affects? You either you either have a lot of Bitcoin
1344
01:48:36.735 --> 01:48:40.995
and the price is moving, you know, affects your net worth significantly,
1345
01:48:41.695 --> 01:48:53.305
or you don't have enough Bitcoin and the price moving is giving you massive FOMO. And either way, every single person you know in real life thinks of you as the Bitcoin guy and this is starting to reach out to you. And you know they're gonna start to reach out to you more and more.
1346
01:48:55.465 --> 01:49:03.460
And you have people like Michael Sailor entering the ring that all have very big opinions and are talking all over the place. Right? It just creates all this additional
1347
01:49:04.320 --> 01:49:16.975
so so so let's let's talk empirically. I want you both on the record. Today is January 5th. January 5th 2022. Hate to do it to you. Can I use a tap root? Where I am. Okay. January 6th. Apologies.
1348
01:49:18.235 --> 01:49:23.930
Really block time is all that matters. Can I use can I use a Taproot address this time next year?
1349
01:49:25.430 --> 01:49:27.530
1350
01:49:28.525 --> 01:49:29.665
1351
01:49:30.445 --> 01:49:31.824
I'm glad you guys are bullish.
1352
01:49:32.764 --> 01:49:36.909
1353
01:49:37.369 --> 01:49:49.045
you know, and and I I I I have those people in mind. I don't I don't think they're faced too much by the price action. They sit down and they do the thing and it's gonna be They're definitely getting hit up by all their friends who have ignored them for years now.
1354
01:49:50.225 --> 01:49:50.725
1355
01:49:51.345 --> 01:50:01.460
So so so our text based host, 6102 Bitcoin asked, so if you think Taproot will be active at this point next year and will be using the address, what is the activation method? How does that look?
1356
01:50:01.765 --> 01:50:03.465
1357
01:50:03.765 --> 01:50:04.265
me.
1358
01:50:05.205 --> 01:50:11.545
1359
01:50:11.989 --> 01:50:12.889
1360
01:50:14.550 --> 01:50:15.449
1361
01:50:16.469 --> 01:50:24.744
1362
01:50:25.445 --> 01:50:28.585
could maybe trigger people into pushing for it more.
1363
01:50:29.320 --> 01:50:36.780
So, hopefully, they didn't hear me say that, and that's kind of what I've been going for, because I think everyone is being a little bit too naively bullish,
1364
01:50:37.575 --> 01:50:38.795
when really we want,
1365
01:50:39.415 --> 01:50:43.915
like, cautiously optimistic action, and we need people to, like, kinda push for this because,
1366
01:50:44.615 --> 01:50:46.315
after what happened last time,
1367
01:50:47.160 --> 01:50:47.820
you know,
1368
01:50:48.200 --> 01:50:52.620
no one's paycheck relies on getting this thing activated, and no one wants to stand up,
1369
01:50:53.800 --> 01:50:57.255
to to to to, like, push the ball forward, basically.
1370
01:50:58.434 --> 01:51:03.414
They don't want they don't wanna get hit in within all the crossfire. So so it should be interesting to see
1371
01:51:04.770 --> 01:51:08.530
how this plays out, and it's definitely a big thing that people should be watching for big I'm
1372
01:51:09.330 --> 01:51:11.330
like, let let's be honest, though. Like, I don't think it
1373
01:51:12.835 --> 01:51:14.375
you know, Bitcoin pumps regardless.
1374
01:51:16.915 --> 01:51:18.375
It's not like price news.
1375
01:51:18.915 --> 01:51:38.775
1376
01:51:39.810 --> 01:51:40.390
the network
1377
01:51:40.770 --> 01:51:55.065
that every individual node gradually opting in into the change and making use of it is an even longer process. You know? Like, we just, like forever. What what's what segue the usage at? You know? Like, it's I don't know. Said, like, 50% or something. Yeah. So so that's ridiculous.
1378
01:51:55.445 --> 01:51:58.560
And so I I I would say, you know, like, Taproot, yes,
1379
01:51:59.020 --> 01:51:59.520
for
1380
01:52:00.860 --> 01:52:04.240
the the very enthusiastic people that are super early.
1381
01:52:05.625 --> 01:52:09.804
But, like, widespread usage, you know, that that takes its time and that's that's a feature.
1382
01:52:11.304 --> 01:52:12.925
1383
01:52:13.810 --> 01:52:15.830
Let's let's let's explain this.
1384
01:52:16.530 --> 01:52:20.425
1385
01:52:21.065 --> 01:52:36.825
what what everyone has to understand is Bitcoin works because you run your own network, so to speak. You you make the rules. You know, it makes the rules. And there is just no way to force anyone to opt into anything. Like, that it's there there are no automatic upgrades. There are no there is no there is no, like, Bitcoin
1386
01:52:37.625 --> 01:52:43.165
there are no Bitcoin high priests that decide what gets activated. Everyone has to decide, like, different actors have to decide
1387
01:52:43.990 --> 01:52:45.530
to upgrade their notes. And,
1388
01:52:47.590 --> 01:52:54.085
that's that's why even even if it becomes part of the protocol and of the client and and and all of that,
1389
01:52:54.865 --> 01:53:10.565
1390
01:53:11.285 --> 01:53:14.185
add some kind of malicious update that either benefits themselves
1391
01:53:14.725 --> 01:53:15.225
or,
1392
01:53:15.765 --> 01:53:20.860
if they're forced to by a regulatory body, which is is historically what we've seen with any kind of,
1393
01:53:22.940 --> 01:53:26.385
financial system that that that tries to subvert authority.
1394
01:53:26.925 --> 01:53:29.505
And this goes back to that Chitcoin conversation previously,
1395
01:53:30.285 --> 01:53:33.585
is is if you have decentralized chains, like, they just cannot provide,
1396
01:53:34.210 --> 01:53:35.830
you know, this idea of decentralization,
1397
01:53:36.210 --> 01:53:36.870
of distribution,
1398
01:53:37.410 --> 01:53:44.155
of robustness is is not a question of marketing. It's not a question of selling the token. It's a question of absolute necessity.
1399
01:53:44.614 --> 01:53:46.474
If you do not have the capability
1400
01:53:46.855 --> 01:53:47.514
to resist,
1401
01:53:48.455 --> 01:53:48.955
centralized
1402
01:53:49.520 --> 01:53:53.460
action by by regulatory bodies, by these massive nation states,
1403
01:53:54.080 --> 01:54:02.244
then your chain will have to bend to the will to them. Your project will have to bend to the will to them, and then all of a sudden you get you have all this KYC and stuff that gets added in,
1404
01:54:02.945 --> 01:54:08.630
which is exactly what we're trying to subvert in the first place. It's exactly what the value prop is in the first
1405
01:54:10.630 --> 01:54:13.050
1406
01:54:18.585 --> 01:54:20.745
1407
01:54:22.800 --> 01:54:30.980
let me see. I got it right here. S m on on on YouTube is asking you, based on your threads, have we seen the supply shock yet?
1408
01:54:31.635 --> 01:54:32.135
1409
01:54:32.728 --> 01:54:32.835
Fun question.
1410
01:54:35.075 --> 01:54:35.575
So
1411
01:54:36.835 --> 01:54:37.815
for people who
1412
01:54:38.115 --> 01:54:43.220
haven't seen it, I put out like a a series of visualizations of of what,
1413
01:54:44.160 --> 01:54:47.300
the having does to the balance of supply and demand
1414
01:54:47.680 --> 01:54:48.660
and how that,
1415
01:54:50.195 --> 01:54:57.255
so that is the supply shock is is is when at the having, suddenly there's half as much supply. So it's a shock
1416
01:54:57.730 --> 01:54:59.090
to the balance of,
1417
01:55:00.130 --> 01:55:00.950
of the market.
1418
01:55:01.410 --> 01:55:01.910
And
1419
01:55:02.290 --> 01:55:03.670
from that point in time,
1420
01:55:04.370 --> 01:55:05.510
a supply shortage
1421
01:55:06.115 --> 01:55:06.615
accumulates
1422
01:55:06.995 --> 01:55:08.775
little by little every day,
1423
01:55:09.715 --> 01:55:10.535
every month
1424
01:55:10.915 --> 01:55:13.895
from that point on because in truth, there's
1425
01:55:14.760 --> 01:55:18.380
there's always so much Bitcoin available for sale on the marketplace
1426
01:55:19.160 --> 01:55:19.660
and
1427
01:55:20.680 --> 01:55:22.700
that's really what gets eaten into
1428
01:55:23.160 --> 01:55:23.900
as the
1429
01:55:24.835 --> 01:55:27.415
the net shortage of of new supply
1430
01:55:28.275 --> 01:55:28.775
causes,
1431
01:55:29.155 --> 01:55:32.375
the market to drain the available sale of Bitcoin
1432
01:55:32.780 --> 01:55:41.280
and turn that into, you know, people holding Bitcoin. So suddenly that the amount of available for sale Bitcoin shrinks over time over the ensuing months.
1433
01:55:42.645 --> 01:55:46.105
And when I looked back at the in previous cycles and
1434
01:55:46.485 --> 01:55:50.425
and looked at sort of what the, HODL waves looked like
1435
01:55:51.000 --> 01:55:53.020
after that, after the havings.
1436
01:55:54.760 --> 01:55:56.380
It seems to be that in,
1437
01:55:56.840 --> 01:55:59.420
you know, the after 6 months is when
1438
01:55:59.960 --> 01:56:01.614
the shortage starts to
1439
01:56:01.915 --> 01:56:03.215
shift from being like
1440
01:56:04.155 --> 01:56:06.655
a theoretical one or when it's sort
1441
01:56:07.275 --> 01:56:08.574
of slightly happening
1442
01:56:09.119 --> 01:56:12.179
to suddenly being felt quite acutely,
1443
01:56:12.639 --> 01:56:13.380
and increasingly
1444
01:56:13.840 --> 01:56:14.340
acutely.
1445
01:56:14.880 --> 01:56:18.260
Specifically, because as the price starts to drift upwards
1446
01:56:19.765 --> 01:56:20.085
to,
1447
01:56:21.605 --> 01:56:23.545
to to unlock supply to,
1448
01:56:24.725 --> 01:56:25.305
you know,
1449
01:56:25.850 --> 01:56:30.110
because there's so much demand that it bids it up in in order to find more supply.
1450
01:56:33.755 --> 01:56:36.075
That it's around 6 months that that,
1451
01:56:36.795 --> 01:56:42.335
the the drifting up of supply caused of of price causes there to be more demand
1452
01:56:42.850 --> 01:56:43.670
for Bitcoin,
1453
01:56:44.130 --> 01:56:45.750
which is what we're seeing right now.
1454
01:56:46.130 --> 01:56:48.710
So the, you know, the acute shortage
1455
01:56:49.945 --> 01:56:52.685
as a result as a result of the accumulation
1456
01:56:53.705 --> 01:56:57.725
of each day, each 10 minutes, there being a deficit of supply,
1457
01:56:58.739 --> 01:57:05.800
is starting now. And it's still in its early stages because we've got another we've got another year
1458
01:57:06.265 --> 01:57:07.645
or maybe 9 months.
1459
01:57:08.265 --> 01:57:10.045
But at least that before
1460
01:57:10.345 --> 01:57:14.605
this thing plays out to its mania stage that we've seen in the past.
1461
01:57:22.320 --> 01:57:24.020
1462
01:57:26.185 --> 01:57:26.685
1463
01:57:27.465 --> 01:57:27.965
Not
1464
01:57:28.505 --> 01:57:29.725
not not too many.
1465
01:57:30.505 --> 01:57:31.245
I think
1466
01:57:31.599 --> 01:57:36.260
I I really like the visualizations in the threat, that really drives home
1467
01:57:36.800 --> 01:57:37.300
how
1468
01:57:37.840 --> 01:57:39.699
this dynamic kind of plays out.
1469
01:57:41.345 --> 01:57:44.085
I I would just also like to point out that
1470
01:57:44.865 --> 01:57:46.085
while while I see
1471
01:57:47.105 --> 01:57:51.400
the cycle pattern repeating, I just think nobody knows what Bitcoin's gonna do.
1472
01:57:52.260 --> 01:57:52.760
And,
1473
01:57:53.620 --> 01:57:54.680
so I think it's,
1474
01:57:55.220 --> 01:57:55.720
yeah,
1475
01:57:56.260 --> 01:57:56.760
it's
1476
01:57:57.505 --> 01:57:59.844
I I think some people are really,
1477
01:58:00.465 --> 01:58:03.445
speculating on certain numbers and,
1478
01:58:03.905 --> 01:58:04.724
just certain
1479
01:58:05.930 --> 01:58:08.430
repetitions of the past, so to speak. And,
1480
01:58:09.530 --> 01:58:11.790
I'm I'm not confident that,
1481
01:58:12.810 --> 01:58:13.550
it will
1482
01:58:13.930 --> 01:58:14.910
be, like,
1483
01:58:15.515 --> 01:58:18.175
exactly the same. It might be even more stupid.
1484
01:58:18.555 --> 01:58:21.135
1485
01:58:22.590 --> 01:58:30.130
1486
01:58:30.590 --> 01:58:35.735
In terms of to keep a certain price level, you have to have a certain amount of,
1487
01:58:36.215 --> 01:58:41.355
you you it's it's basically also what what's visualized in the crow's threat that
1488
01:58:41.800 --> 01:58:45.740
you have to take the new supply off the market. So you have to eat up the new supply.
1489
01:58:46.120 --> 01:58:46.600
And,
1490
01:58:47.160 --> 01:59:00.350
Hasma Koch has great calculations how much DCA is necessary just to eat up the new supply. And that's like, the new new supply is tiny in terms of liquidity, in terms of what is actually We were eating that up already. Right? Yeah. Yeah. And but I
1491
01:59:00.969 --> 01:59:02.190
I just think that
1492
01:59:02.730 --> 01:59:04.830
the dynamics like, some things have changed.
1493
01:59:05.185 --> 01:59:10.485
I I I'm not saying this is the last cycle. Like, again, I don't believe that, but Not the fucking last cycle.
1494
01:59:11.825 --> 01:59:24.335
1495
01:59:25.114 --> 01:59:26.655
Such a fucking mean man.
1496
01:59:27.514 --> 01:59:33.699
1497
01:59:34.080 --> 01:59:36.020
historically when the price shoots up,
1498
01:59:36.960 --> 01:59:37.460
the,
1499
01:59:38.080 --> 01:59:49.275
the amount that is sitting on exchanges shoots up as well. And this is just not happening this time, at least not not up to now. So yeah. The reverse the first time ever that the Yeah. The exchange balances has gone down, but I would caution people
1500
01:59:49.820 --> 01:59:50.800
1501
01:59:51.100 --> 01:59:55.440
and the other one I think is Viewbase that is tracking it, they don't include the custodians.
1502
01:59:55.980 --> 02:00:00.635
So, like, when the Michael Sailors and the Scaramucci's and stuff are taking it off of Coinbase,
1503
02:00:01.175 --> 02:00:03.755
and they're sending it to, like, Anchorage and Prime Trust,
1504
02:00:05.255 --> 02:00:05.755
1505
02:00:06.250 --> 02:00:23.425
1506
02:00:24.640 --> 02:00:28.480
it it's it's not counting these regulated custodians, which might as well, you know
1507
02:00:29.280 --> 02:00:30.580
I think the difference between
1508
02:00:30.975 --> 02:00:36.435
an Anchorage Wallet or a Prime Trust Wallet, you know, a top tier regulated custodian versus Coinbase,
1509
02:00:36.815 --> 02:00:39.715
the number one largest regulated exchange and custodian,
1510
02:00:40.730 --> 02:00:43.790
is is probably minor, right, in terms of US government
1511
02:00:46.170 --> 02:00:52.895
1512
02:00:53.514 --> 02:00:58.014
single point of failure is a single point of failure, and we can see, like,
1513
02:00:58.330 --> 02:01:00.430
just crazy things happening if if,
1514
02:01:01.450 --> 02:01:03.630
a large amount of coins are concentrated
1515
02:01:03.930 --> 02:01:05.230
with those single custodians.
1516
02:01:05.605 --> 02:01:06.585
1517
02:01:07.445 --> 02:01:13.065
Dreiman, I don't know how to pronounce it. There's a special place in hell for you you and and people like Crow who pick
1518
02:01:13.829 --> 02:01:17.690
who pick names that are hard to pronounce intentionally because you got to pick the name.
1519
02:01:18.869 --> 02:01:25.995
He said for some fiat currencies, this will be the last cycle. I mean, by by that by that method, I mean, the last cycle was the first cycle.
1520
02:01:27.495 --> 02:01:39.090
That's true. I mean, he's right. He's right about that. That that's just some horrible shit coins. I think that When do you decide? When do you decide? At what threshold do you decide? These these things have been dumping forever. I put up USD SAT before.
1521
02:01:39.775 --> 02:01:40.995
I'm currently in, like,
1522
02:01:41.375 --> 02:01:47.630
a a nice cabin in the woods, and my Internet's not that good. So when I tried to put up USD SAT, the the page started glitching out. But,
1523
02:01:48.590 --> 02:01:52.929
you know, the dollar has been collapsing this whole fucking time, you know, since cycle 1,
1524
02:01:53.230 --> 02:01:55.889
since before Bitcoin existed. Like, at what point,
1525
02:01:56.824 --> 02:02:04.445
do you do you do that threshold? At what point does it stop being a meme? Like, there's gonna be massive corrections. Like, I I I would be really surprised.
1526
02:02:04.960 --> 02:02:10.500
That'd be awesome, but I'd be really surprised if there wasn't some kind of massive corrections as this adoption cycle plays out.
1527
02:02:11.280 --> 02:02:14.855
1528
02:02:15.875 --> 02:02:18.215
one Satoshi buys you multiple
1529
02:02:18.515 --> 02:02:29.040
instances of your Fiat chit coin. Like, if one Satoshi is, like, $3, then it it's it's game over. And we saw that with a bunch of currencies. It's like sad dollar domination instead of parity.
1530
02:02:29.865 --> 02:02:33.245
Yeah. Yeah. But I I think, you know, like, if if you if you,
1531
02:02:33.865 --> 02:02:35.545
can't break it down into
1532
02:02:36.345 --> 02:02:39.860
if if if the worth of 1 of your Fiat units goes below,
1533
02:02:41.040 --> 02:02:46.955
below 1 satoshi, then it's game over, I I would say. Then it's officially a bad shit coin.
1534
02:02:49.495 --> 02:02:50.795
1535
02:02:52.349 --> 02:02:58.050
1536
02:03:03.635 --> 02:03:06.455
1537
02:03:10.000 --> 02:03:12.180
1538
02:03:13.040 --> 02:03:15.300
the point where I didn't have any thoughts.
1539
02:03:16.145 --> 02:03:17.025
1540
02:03:18.784 --> 02:03:20.244
this has been a great conversation.
1541
02:03:21.025 --> 02:03:23.205
Do you have any final questions for us?
1542
02:03:24.500 --> 02:03:26.440
I don't want I don't wanna push this
1543
02:03:26.740 --> 02:03:32.760
longer than than I'm having a great time, but I I don't wanna push this longer than quality allows.
1544
02:03:33.395 --> 02:03:36.135
One sat equals 1 cent. Yes. I agree.
1545
02:03:37.715 --> 02:03:40.295
1200 joules per sat is my price prediction.
1546
02:03:40.755 --> 02:03:42.775
I like that, but I actually kind of think
1547
02:03:43.620 --> 02:03:49.720
I think maybe just sat is the universal unit of, like, pretty much everything. It's like what the conversion rate is to sats.
1548
02:03:52.105 --> 02:03:56.685
Maybe you won't even need joules to measure energy if you could just measure it in sats output.
1549
02:04:00.790 --> 02:04:02.490
But maybe I'm just going too
1550
02:04:03.110 --> 02:04:04.250
too deep now.
1551
02:04:05.270 --> 02:04:07.290
1552
02:04:07.705 --> 02:04:08.205
a
1553
02:04:08.665 --> 02:04:10.525
stranded natural gas well
1554
02:04:11.305 --> 02:04:13.245
and set up a Hash Hut thing?
1555
02:04:13.625 --> 02:04:20.580
1556
02:04:24.225 --> 02:04:32.945
basically at breakeven or below, slightly below, and the the benefit you get is you get a steady supply of k y c free coins. And I think I think really
1557
02:04:33.880 --> 02:04:39.900
the reason we haven't seen it is because it's it's hard to get large amounts of ASICs. And ASICs,
1558
02:04:40.360 --> 02:04:48.335
they they they their life cycles don't last as long as as they probably should. They their life cycles are increasing in terms of buying an ASIC until it goes outdated.
1559
02:04:49.810 --> 02:04:52.870
But I think, ultimately, the future of Bitcoin mining is
1560
02:04:53.250 --> 02:04:54.469
these small scale
1561
02:04:55.010 --> 02:04:55.910
mining ops,
1562
02:04:56.905 --> 02:05:01.325
that are that are are are willing to sustain a loss. Like, I would be happy to sustain,
1563
02:05:01.945 --> 02:05:02.685
like, a 20%,
1564
02:05:03.465 --> 02:05:04.550
loss on on
1565
02:05:04.949 --> 02:05:06.409
on regulated market price,
1566
02:05:07.110 --> 02:05:10.809
to get to get, like, a steady stream of KYC free sats.
1567
02:05:11.429 --> 02:05:13.770
1568
02:05:14.485 --> 02:05:18.905
1569
02:05:20.325 --> 02:05:23.320
Like, a constant secret bag that just was, like, filling up?
1570
02:05:23.719 --> 02:05:38.915
1571
02:05:39.295 --> 02:05:49.700
Yeah. And maybe That's not bad. That that's not a bad price, is it? Like, we're gonna go substantially higher than that. That's true. That's not yeah. It depends on what time frame you're you're looking at. It's a deal
1572
02:05:50.080 --> 02:05:51.025
a year from now.
1573
02:06:01.010 --> 02:06:02.630
1574
02:06:03.090 --> 02:06:11.475
Can we talk about bisque and counterparty risk? How can I ensure that the person selling it to me doesn't know who I am and how much I own? How can I ensure they're not selling me stolen KYC coins?
1575
02:06:12.594 --> 02:06:13.495
So you can't,
1576
02:06:14.675 --> 02:06:17.415
the the the biggest risk of bisque the biggest,
1577
02:06:18.239 --> 02:06:18.900
not risk,
1578
02:06:19.520 --> 02:06:21.780
the the biggest pain point of bisque
1579
02:06:22.400 --> 02:06:26.260
is the fiat side. And this is why Bitcoin's dope. Right? Like,
1580
02:06:27.565 --> 02:06:31.825
fiat is a pain in the ass to interact with, and it's not great for privacy.
1581
02:06:33.005 --> 02:06:36.145
So, obviously, if you're sending a bank transfer to someone,
1582
02:06:36.830 --> 02:06:43.650
it's gonna have whatever traits that bank transfer option you have depending on where you live in the world. Some people have better options, you know, in America.
1583
02:06:44.145 --> 02:06:50.485
People have, like, Zelle, I think, in in in the in in in Japan. They have better systems in place,
1584
02:06:51.025 --> 02:06:52.885
that their fiat payments are better.
1585
02:06:53.540 --> 02:06:55.240
But that will always be the pain point.
1586
02:06:55.940 --> 02:07:01.800
You can also, on Bisc, use a person to person cash, which is obviously will always be better for privacy.
1587
02:07:02.835 --> 02:07:10.455
And I think they have, like, Amazon gift cards and stuff that you could technically use. It it'll always be a pain point. The fee outside is a pain point. Why we Bitcoin?
1588
02:07:10.780 --> 02:07:13.120
You know, you don't have that pain point once you move to Bitcoin.
1589
02:07:15.500 --> 02:07:18.080
As as for the the second part, I mean,
1590
02:07:19.995 --> 02:07:31.200
you know, that this isn't this is an issue with Bitcoin fungibility in general. Right? And this is why people should be using CoinJoin. This is why, like, the historical path of of of where Bitcoin's been shouldn't matter.
1591
02:07:32.060 --> 02:07:40.344
And and it's just it's something that that that is not unique to Bitcoin. And, you know, if if what if you get cash, like, how do you know where that cash came from?
1592
02:07:40.885 --> 02:07:42.425
So you so you need to,
1593
02:07:44.500 --> 02:07:51.640
this is why it's super important that even people that use non KYC options also learn how to use Bitcoin more privately and and and learn these tools.
1594
02:07:52.305 --> 02:07:53.285
What do you guys think?
1595
02:07:53.825 --> 02:07:58.945
1596
02:08:00.500 --> 02:08:04.820
meeting someone in MeetSpace has its own set of risks. So,
1597
02:08:05.380 --> 02:08:11.775
just be aware of that even though in terms of privacy, it might be the best option. Right. We just had a guy in Hong Kong who,
1598
02:08:12.395 --> 02:08:16.315
1599
02:08:17.440 --> 02:08:21.300
1600
02:08:22.400 --> 02:08:22.900
adversarially.
1601
02:08:23.280 --> 02:08:25.755
And so just keep that in mind that
1602
02:08:26.215 --> 02:08:29.115
you have to be confident comfortable with doing that. And,
1603
02:08:30.375 --> 02:08:46.365
yeah. I mean, it it it really depends on how you wanna use Bisq. If you haven't checked it out yet, I highly recommend you do. It's it's really easy to use, I I would say. Like, if you're if if you if you're good with, like, clicking through UIs, then it shouldn't be too much of a problem. And as Matt said,
1604
02:08:46.925 --> 02:08:49.085
the biggest pain point is your your,
1605
02:08:50.310 --> 02:08:52.650
you interacting with the field system. And,
1606
02:08:53.350 --> 02:09:06.835
in terms of other privacy side, I think a good way to think about CoinJoin in general is just like it it think think about it in a way just like you would clear your browser history, for example. And the problem is that everyone has access to your browser history.
1607
02:09:07.454 --> 02:09:07.954
So
1608
02:09:09.440 --> 02:09:13.540
you you you you kind of have a way to to clear the history,
1609
02:09:14.240 --> 02:09:16.420
of of the coins you use. And if you,
1610
02:09:17.585 --> 02:09:22.165
yeah, if you don't reuse addresses, which you should never do, and if you,
1611
02:09:23.265 --> 02:09:26.325
take care of your UTXO's and and kind of
1612
02:09:26.650 --> 02:09:27.310
learn about
1613
02:09:28.330 --> 02:09:29.310
the best practices
1614
02:09:29.770 --> 02:09:31.150
in Bitcoin privacy,
1615
02:09:31.530 --> 02:09:36.110
then you should be good on the Bitcoin side when interacting with someone else in Bisq.
1616
02:09:39.645 --> 02:09:43.425
Someone asked what an XPub is. I I I I would mark it as a troll.
1617
02:09:44.685 --> 02:09:50.050
I'm not Peter McCormick. I've if you wanna know what what an ex pub is, just suffer through,
1618
02:09:50.510 --> 02:09:53.730
Matt's and and Pete's conversation. Don't. Don't.
1619
02:09:54.755 --> 02:10:01.050
1620
02:10:02.489 --> 02:10:06.989
I guess where is that? Is that on the swan blog, Gigi? Yeah. It's on the swan blog. Yeah.
1621
02:10:07.849 --> 02:10:19.125
1622
02:10:19.540 --> 02:10:20.440
As Matt said,
1623
02:10:21.300 --> 02:10:25.000
XPub is basically best understood as your few key, so you cannot
1624
02:10:25.620 --> 02:10:34.515
send any coins, but you can see the whole wallet. So you can see what's going on. And the XPEL is used it's it's like it's like a parent key. It's like a a master key that can use,
1625
02:10:35.375 --> 02:10:39.220
more addresses. And it's it's all of it is new nuanced. So,
1626
02:10:40.080 --> 02:10:40.580
it's
1627
02:10:41.680 --> 02:10:43.860
there are different types of xPubs. And,
1628
02:10:45.040 --> 02:10:45.540
what's
1629
02:10:46.835 --> 02:10:48.855
what an xPub basically is is
1630
02:10:49.555 --> 02:10:59.810
certain kind of information that lets you build up a hierarchy of addresses. And while it's used that to have just one secret that they need to take care of, so to speak.
1631
02:11:00.190 --> 02:11:00.690
And
1632
02:11:01.230 --> 02:11:03.890
then those use that so that they can generate
1633
02:11:04.585 --> 02:11:05.485
receiving addresses
1634
02:11:06.105 --> 02:11:07.165
easily without,
1635
02:11:08.105 --> 02:11:10.445
giving away too much secret information.
1636
02:11:10.825 --> 02:11:13.405
And services use XPub sometimes. So,
1637
02:11:14.320 --> 02:11:15.940
it's it's in a way also
1638
02:11:17.119 --> 02:11:19.300
you know, it's a hack for best practice.
1639
02:11:19.840 --> 02:11:21.460
You don't want to reuse addresses,
1640
02:11:22.079 --> 02:11:27.815
and you so so you force users to hand over an ex pub so that you on your side,
1641
02:11:28.355 --> 02:11:36.690
you become a trusted third party and you generate a new address for every transfer. And so someone else that is spying on the Bitcoin blockchain cannot see,
1642
02:11:37.389 --> 02:11:41.725
how much you are saving, for example. So I hope that somewhat makes sense. Go read the blog
1643
02:11:42.745 --> 02:11:43.645
post. Again,
1644
02:11:44.185 --> 02:11:49.565
4th glass of whiskey now. So if that doesn't make sense, I apologize. It's very late where I'm at.
1645
02:11:49.910 --> 02:12:00.465
1646
02:12:01.645 --> 02:12:11.930
They Gigi designed the tool so that they don't actually receive the XPub. They just receive the generated addresses, and you can actually verify it because it's a it's a open source tool. It's a free open source tool.
1647
02:12:13.030 --> 02:12:21.275
But most people can't read code, so you should probably just, when you interact with that feature, you should just have a dedicated wallet. Best practice is to have a dedicated wallet,
1648
02:12:21.975 --> 02:12:26.349
that is like your Swan wallet. Right? And you just assume that every transaction in that wallet,
1649
02:12:27.610 --> 02:12:30.110
Swan can see. And someone else asked,
1650
02:12:30.570 --> 02:12:32.270
which this ties into Hakob
1651
02:12:32.809 --> 02:12:41.534
or Yaacob, I guess. I don't know how to pronounce your name. I apologize. Asked if CoinJoin truly clears the UTXO history, and, no, it doesn't. It's very obvious that you did a CoinJoin.
1652
02:12:41.920 --> 02:12:44.340
But if you if you if you used a good implementation
1653
02:12:44.960 --> 02:12:46.739
and you did it without making any mistakes,
1654
02:12:49.015 --> 02:12:51.755
difficult to to backtrack the hand joint happened.
1655
02:12:52.295 --> 02:12:56.715
So it kind of creates, like, a a a base slate. It, like, wipes the slate clean,
1656
02:12:57.270 --> 02:13:03.530
is the way I view it. It creates like a a a neutral property. It's just a normal Bitcoin transaction with no taint.
1657
02:13:04.070 --> 02:13:10.975
Yeah. The only taint being that CoinJoin has happened. But every other Bitcoin transaction has had the history of it ever till the beginning.
1658
02:13:11.595 --> 02:13:32.810
1659
02:13:33.429 --> 02:13:56.765
who the parties involved where. And coin joints just break those kind of heuristics, and they are able to do that. Like, you you can't really track Bitcoin even though everything is public, but just the nature of the protocol is such that every single transaction is a smelting process. So you have multiple inputs and multiple outputs, and you can think of it as just gold coins going in somewhere and they are smelted and they're
1660
02:13:57.545 --> 02:14:03.005
re like, they they reappear at the end of the transaction as new coins in in the correct denomination.
1661
02:14:03.480 --> 02:14:06.300
And that's how Bitcoin works basically. And so most
1662
02:14:06.760 --> 02:14:07.260
transactions
1663
02:14:07.719 --> 02:14:08.219
have
1664
02:14:08.760 --> 02:14:18.045
a regular footprint, so to speak, or or you you can you can see that this is just like a regular transaction, like one person inter interacting with another one or like it has like,
1665
02:14:19.065 --> 02:14:24.920
a certain number of inputs, a certain number of outputs, and so on. And so surveillance companies assume that this was
1666
02:14:25.460 --> 02:14:36.935
a regular transaction, and this is like the receiving address, and this is the change address, and the party that initiated the transaction is still in charge of the change address and so on. And so you can build up a chain and you can kind of
1667
02:14:37.395 --> 02:14:38.535
with a high
1668
02:14:39.170 --> 02:14:40.870
with with a high confidence
1669
02:14:41.170 --> 02:14:41.990
say that,
1670
02:14:42.610 --> 02:14:54.665
here we have an entity that was in control of these coins and this is how the coins moved. And so you can you can see that in the blockchain. But keep in mind that those are all just heuristics and coin chains are certain kinds of transactions.
1671
02:14:56.489 --> 02:15:00.110
Like that. It's just a a very peculiar
1672
02:15:00.410 --> 02:15:01.550
transaction type,
1673
02:15:01.905 --> 02:15:07.025
and they're just, collaborative transactions of multiple parties. And this breaks the,
1674
02:15:08.065 --> 02:15:09.870
the common heuristics that most
1675
02:15:10.350 --> 02:15:18.610
chain analysis firms use because you cannot assume anymore that it was one person that did that, and then you're just lost. You cannot make sense of the transaction graph anymore.
1676
02:15:19.055 --> 02:15:24.755
1677
02:15:25.695 --> 02:15:33.150
And and it it it would be like to say not to use CoinJoin would be like to say that, like, we should just use Bitcoin way that that version 1,
1678
02:15:34.670 --> 02:15:35.410
use Bitcoin.
1679
02:15:35.735 --> 02:15:58.115
1680
02:15:58.735 --> 02:15:59.715
we won't have
1681
02:16:00.095 --> 02:16:00.915
to talk about
1682
02:16:01.540 --> 02:16:10.520
conjoined in that kind of depth anymore. I think in, like, I think in, like, 5 years time, it it we will have to deal with different topics, but not with that anymore that much.
1683
02:16:11.125 --> 02:16:12.185
1684
02:16:12.805 --> 02:16:14.425
on a completely separate topic,
1685
02:16:15.365 --> 02:16:20.505
windshield time said everyone is getting a girlfriend LOL, which is like a growing meme.
1686
02:16:21.110 --> 02:16:26.330
I just in in all seriousness, like, you should absolutely, by all means, have a girlfriend, but
1687
02:16:27.190 --> 02:16:30.705
don't don't commit to her unless she goes through at least one bear cycle.
1688
02:16:31.325 --> 02:16:35.405
Preferably for preferably 2 bear cycles. You gotta you gotta test her out. You can't,
1689
02:16:36.170 --> 02:16:40.430
you can't you can't dedicate dedicate yourself to someone in in just one full cycle.
1690
02:16:42.490 --> 02:16:43.550
1691
02:16:44.176 --> 02:16:45.775
With the dating wisdom from,
1692
02:16:46.415 --> 02:16:46.915
Bitcoiners
1693
02:16:47.216 --> 02:16:48.275
holding through volatility.
1694
02:16:50.016 --> 02:16:53.460
1695
02:16:55.120 --> 02:16:56.660
with a Bitcoiner, I mean,
1696
02:16:57.040 --> 02:17:02.135
is there is there any more dedication than that? Like, that's, like, some pretty massive Bitcoin or leverage right
1697
02:17:02.675 --> 02:17:06.055
1698
02:17:06.755 --> 02:17:07.255
the
1699
02:17:07.635 --> 02:17:08.775
the wives and girlfriends
1700
02:17:09.250 --> 02:17:10.149
behind the Bitcoiners.
1701
02:17:11.410 --> 02:17:16.365
And I'm not saying that all the kind of some may love, but I still think that most are. And it's,
1702
02:17:17.085 --> 02:17:20.125
yeah. So I can speak from personal experience. It's
1703
02:17:20.925 --> 02:17:25.346
the the ride was very, very wild. And I you love to see it that
1704
02:17:26.351 --> 02:17:31.410
Bitcoiners tend to kind of you know, I think it's a low price time preference thing as well.
1705
02:17:31.790 --> 02:17:38.455
Bitcoiners tend to marry and make kids and stuff like that. And, you just love to see it, you know, like, we we need more of that.
1706
02:17:39.075 --> 02:17:40.615
1707
02:17:41.155 --> 02:17:42.375
trying out a new
1708
02:17:42.971 --> 02:17:43.690
tactic with,
1709
02:17:45.130 --> 02:17:46.910
with my friends who,
1710
02:17:48.490 --> 02:17:48.990
are
1711
02:17:49.610 --> 02:17:53.936
very much on the sideline or on the fence about, about Bitcoin. So,
1712
02:17:54.476 --> 02:17:56.016
if they're women,
1713
02:17:56.955 --> 02:17:57.695
I've been
1714
02:17:58.590 --> 02:18:00.609
prodding with this idea of
1715
02:18:00.910 --> 02:18:02.130
of this is how
1716
02:18:03.630 --> 02:18:04.609
gender inequity,
1717
02:18:05.630 --> 02:18:06.130
perpetuates
1718
02:18:08.515 --> 02:18:12.375
Because, you know, look around and look who are the people leaning into the risk
1719
02:18:14.570 --> 02:18:16.110
of of being early on Bitcoin.
1720
02:18:16.490 --> 02:18:19.551
And are you gonna let the are you gonna let the men have all the
1721
02:18:20.250 --> 02:18:22.190
reap all the rewards of that risk,
1722
02:18:23.274 --> 02:18:25.854
which has been a bit of
1723
02:18:26.234 --> 02:18:30.895
a touchy conversation to have with with some some of my NBA friends, you know,
1724
02:18:31.435 --> 02:18:32.095
and very
1725
02:18:33.020 --> 02:18:34.960
left leaning MBA culture.
1726
02:18:35.739 --> 02:18:38.239
That's a very provocative language but
1727
02:18:38.700 --> 02:18:47.715
rather effective. So I encourage people to to try some variant of that and see how it goes with, the women in your life who who are risk averse to Bitcoin still.
1728
02:18:48.100 --> 02:18:54.119
1729
02:18:55.695 --> 02:18:57.315
1730
02:18:59.375 --> 02:19:00.195
1731
02:19:01.215 --> 02:19:02.995
I love both of you guys. The,
1732
02:19:03.860 --> 02:19:05.240
so Crip Loco asked,
1733
02:19:05.940 --> 02:19:11.885
what happened to LocalBitcoins? LocalBitcoins added KYC. Like, this is the problem. Like, if you have a centralized party, they're gonna add it.
1734
02:19:12.444 --> 02:19:21.505
He's asking, you know, what what why is there another company that's not providing an in person solution for buying Bitcoin? I think this is something that just long term
1735
02:19:22.910 --> 02:19:24.770
works itself out. Like, you you just
1736
02:19:25.230 --> 02:19:36.295
and we've seen this with the drug war. Like, you know people in your town or your area that can get you, you know, drugs for cash, and there there's gonna be this, like, p to p market for it that just grassroots
1737
02:19:36.835 --> 02:19:45.070
emerges in different places. And and if if you try and do a top down approach, you're always gonna get hit by regulators. You're always gonna get wrecked by regulators. And long term,
1738
02:19:45.450 --> 02:19:48.910
I mean, when we end in in this, like, circular economy type of situation,
1739
02:19:49.375 --> 02:19:58.755
you know, people aren't gonna be buying Bitcoin. They're gonna be earning it. People aren't gonna be selling it. They're gonna be spending it, and you won't even need this process of of trying to change shitty money to
1740
02:19:59.061 --> 02:19:59.881
to good money.
1741
02:20:00.820 --> 02:20:15.115
1742
02:20:15.495 --> 02:20:15.995
KYC
1743
02:20:16.550 --> 02:20:21.850
free Bitcoin from time to time just to onboard people. I think it's a it's a nice way to to just,
1744
02:20:22.310 --> 02:20:30.235
show someone how this works and get the feet wet. But it's it's also, you know, like, it most of the time, it doesn't take and people just
1745
02:20:30.775 --> 02:20:33.436
lose their wallets or something. So,
1746
02:20:34.310 --> 02:20:41.595
take that with a grain of salt. But I think I think all of those things will emerge, and we we we see that over and over and over again. And,
1747
02:20:41.915 --> 02:20:47.295
if the need is strong enough, then those kind of solutions will pop up. And people are very,
1748
02:20:47.675 --> 02:20:48.175
like,
1749
02:20:48.555 --> 02:20:50.311
smart with coming up
1750
02:20:50.930 --> 02:21:02.205
with solutions to those kind of problems, and I think we will just see new kind of things emerge. And, yeah, who who knows what's what's gonna happen in the next 2 or 3 years? I I I'm very bullish on
1751
02:21:03.305 --> 02:21:04.364
all kinds of
1752
02:21:04.820 --> 02:21:05.721
all kinds of,
1753
02:21:06.260 --> 02:21:10.520
non central ways to interact with Bitcoin and acquire Bitcoin and stuff like that.
1754
02:21:16.765 --> 02:21:21.345
1755
02:21:22.260 --> 02:21:24.440
It's always better to have a dedicated computer.
1756
02:21:24.900 --> 02:21:29.895
The main risk is privacy, but you also have a little bit of funds risk you just want. It's just better to use a dedicated computer
1757
02:21:31.814 --> 02:21:39.595
if you can. Slowly level up your your your setup. My the guide I've been been shelling of my own is is we run bitcoin.com, and what's nice there is you can start
1758
02:21:40.680 --> 02:21:43.979
with maybe not a dedicated computer, and you can slowly upgrade yourself,
1759
02:21:44.680 --> 02:21:46.380
and you can upgrade yourself to multisig.
1760
02:21:47.320 --> 02:21:47.820
So
1761
02:21:48.186 --> 02:21:50.926
it's been about 2 hours and 20 minutes.
1762
02:21:51.705 --> 02:21:53.965
My lady, who is a very dedicated Bitcoiner,
1763
02:21:54.266 --> 02:21:57.645
is probably a little bit frustrated with me. We're in a nice cabin in the woods,
1764
02:21:58.221 --> 02:22:01.120
and I it's time for me to have dinner with her and appreciate her.
1765
02:22:01.820 --> 02:22:06.641
I wanna say a big thank you to all the freaks who who who joined us for the livestream.
1766
02:22:07.755 --> 02:22:09.535
This show is about you guys.
1767
02:22:10.315 --> 02:22:17.590
The whole idea of this show is and what I love about it is that you all participate and you get to ask questions, and and we get to riff off those questions.
1768
02:22:18.210 --> 02:22:21.109
So without you, the show is nothing. So thank you for attending.
1769
02:22:22.255 --> 02:22:25.315
Thank you for all the listeners who are listening to this after the fact.
1770
02:22:25.935 --> 02:22:27.395
We will have another show,
1771
02:22:28.015 --> 02:22:33.979
next week, same time. I I think I like this time better. Tell me if you don't like this time better. This is 22100
1772
02:22:34.280 --> 02:22:35.820
UTC, 5 PM EST.
1773
02:22:36.605 --> 02:22:45.265
I wanna do a a a big thanks to to Croesus BTC for joining us, our friend or Gigi for joining us. You can find them both on Twitter
1774
02:22:47.300 --> 02:22:47.800
at
1775
02:22:48.580 --> 02:22:49.960
their respective handles.
1776
02:22:51.460 --> 02:22:54.445
I'm I'm showing them on the screen right now. Dergigi is at
1777
02:22:55.485 --> 02:22:55.985
dergigi,
1778
02:22:57.485 --> 02:22:58.306
and cruisesbtc
1779
02:22:59.245 --> 02:22:59.745
is
1780
02:23:00.445 --> 02:23:00.945
atcro
1781
02:23:02.199 --> 02:23:02.699
esus_btc.
1782
02:23:05.159 --> 02:23:06.460
Thank you all for joining.
1783
02:23:07.080 --> 02:23:09.180
Stay humble, and stack sets.
1784
02:23:11.255 --> 02:23:12.555
1785
02:23:13.495 --> 02:23:15.515
1786
02:23:26.585 --> 02:23:27.085
1787
02:23:27.465 --> 02:23:27.965
moo.
1788
02:23:29.065 --> 02:23:31.885
It's funny how time just flies.
1789
02:23:33.961 --> 02:23:34.461
Yesterday,
1790
02:23:35.080 --> 02:23:36.461
we were just kids
1791
02:23:37.320 --> 02:23:38.700
hanging in the sky,
1792
02:23:39.240 --> 02:23:40.860
staying up all night.
1793
02:23:43.016 --> 02:23:43.516
Hey.
1794
02:23:44.695 --> 02:23:45.195
Hey.
1795
02:23:46.936 --> 02:23:50.476
Do you ever get a tear in your eye?
1796
02:23:51.410 --> 02:23:56.710
When you think about the time that God came down, I couldn't help myself.
1797
02:23:57.250 --> 02:23:59.590
I had to shine so bright.
1798
02:24:00.615 --> 02:24:01.355
I remember
1799
02:24:01.735 --> 02:24:03.595
that newborn baby
1800
02:24:05.095 --> 02:24:07.275
and the wise men that traveled
1801
02:24:07.655 --> 02:24:08.635
so far.
1802
02:24:09.270 --> 02:24:12.811
That's when I knew I was made for a reason.
1803
02:24:14.391 --> 02:24:16.170
I feel like the luckiest
1804
02:24:16.630 --> 02:24:17.130
star.
1805
02:24:29.530 --> 02:24:31.229
Hey. Hey. It's
1806
02:24:32.729 --> 02:24:35.310
funny how things have changed.
1807
02:24:37.065 --> 02:24:42.125
I wish that they could see the things we've seen before the colored lights
1808
02:24:42.665 --> 02:24:43.485
and the Christmas
1809
02:24:43.865 --> 02:24:44.365
tree.
1810
02:24:46.580 --> 02:24:47.080
Hey.
1811
02:24:50.580 --> 02:24:51.675
Hey. So many are
1812
02:25:17.910 --> 02:25:19.450
I feel like a lucky
1813
02:25:19.830 --> 02:25:20.490
day start.
1814
02:25:22.229 --> 02:25:22.729
Hey.
1815
02:25:30.815 --> 02:25:31.315
Hey.
1816
02:25:54.730 --> 02:25:55.230
All
1817
02:25:56.171 --> 02:25:56.671
is
1818
02:25:57.211 --> 02:25:57.711
bright.
1819
02:25:58.730 --> 02:25:59.471
I remember
1820
02:26:00.091 --> 02:26:00.910
that newborn
1821
02:26:01.290 --> 02:26:01.790
baby
1822
02:26:12.400 --> 02:26:15.141
I feel like the lucky is star.
1823
02:26:16.721 --> 02:26:17.221
Hey.
1824
02:26:43.305 --> 02:26:45.405
