Nov. 2, 2022
CD78: Building a Bitcoin City with PlebLab
EPISODE: 78
BLOCK: 761419
PRICE: 4889 sats per dollar
TOPICS: personal experiences, austin and bitcoin, launching pleblab, supporting builders, open source culture, grassroots bitcoin, collaboration
pleblab on Twitter
thrillerx_ on Twitter
the_bitcoin_bum on Twitter
john_zaprite on Twitter
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stream sats to the show: https://www.fountain.fm/
join the chat: https://matrix.to/#/#citadel:bitcoin.kyoto
06:29 - Introduction to Pleb Lab and its purpose
19:12 - Discussion on open source and its importance
38:56 - Supporting startups and the unique approach of Pleb Lab
49:19 - The importance of building the next generation of Bitcoiners
50:03 - The need for more builders in the Bitcoin space
53:34 - The transition to the application era of Bitcoin
01:39:55 - The importance of starting a startup
01:40:40 - Opportunities for Bitcoiners to get plugged in
01:41:33 - Nostra November and its significance
WEBVTT
NOTE
Transcription provided by Podhome.fm
Created: 3/17/2024 4:22:14 PM
Duration: 6205.466
Channels: 1
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Happy Bitcoin Wednesday, freaks. It's your boy Odell here for another Citadel Dispatch.
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I know it's been a month.
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I hope you've been enjoying the other content, the external content I've been posting to the feed.
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There's a lot of great conversations in there.
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I've been quietly working behind the scenes on a bunch of different projects. I haven't forgotten about you all. I was hoping
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that we were gonna get to do.
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I I was I was kind of holding out wanting to do more in person,
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RIPS in our new studio in Nashville at Bitcoin Park,
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We've been dealing with some family things.
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All is good on that front. It should be back in Nashville sometime soon.
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But in the meantime,
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we're gonna rip some remote
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remote conversations
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to keep it going and because I missed you all.
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With all that said, Dispatch,
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as you freaks know, is a show focused on actionable discussion.
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It is a live show
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with active chat participation. I appreciate all the freaks who joined the chat. It's also an ad free, sponsor free value for value show that's a 100% funded by the audience.
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There's a lot of haters out there right now that say audience funding cannot work, that the ad model is the only way to go. I appreciate you all helping to prove them wrong.
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The amount of support I get from you freaks is truly incredible. It is really cool seeing the sats
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flow directly into my lightning node. Easiest way to support the show
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is through podcasting 2 point o apps, such as Fountain Podcasts,
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Breezewallet,
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echoln.com,
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and Podverse
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dotfm.
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You simply
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load the app up with some sats, search Zillow Dispatch in the app, press subscribe, choose how many SATs per minute you think the show is worth,
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and
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it will automatically
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send those stats directly to my note as you listen.
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There's also a feature called boostograms.
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Boostograms
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allow you to attach a message to a single payment.
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Basically, you can think of it as a
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global message board
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comment section,
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with payments included.
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It's great to see the freaks,
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supporting that way as well. I'm able to,
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all of us are able to read them, but I do read the top 4 from the previous episode.
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Since dispatch hasn't gone for a month, I will be reading multiple of them in a second. But before I get there, you can also support
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by
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going to cildispatch.com. I have a BTC pay server there. You can support using
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on chain or lightning.
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I have
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a BIP 47
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reusable payment code and a pay name attached to that. That pay name is Odell. All of this is listed at sidildispatch.com.
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And I know it is a bear market. If you do not have sets to support the show,
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you can obviously support dispatch by sharing with your friends and family or subscribing in your favorite podcast app,
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YouTube, Twitch, Twitter.
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It's on it's on all the platforms, Rumble, Bitcoin TV. Just search it all dispatch. Share with your friends and family. It is appreciated.
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Okay.
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I actually nailed that pretty good considering we haven't done this in a month.
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I am going to read
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select boostograms
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from the freaks. We had CD 77 was,
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an awesome dispatch conversation,
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that was focused on silent link. We have Eric 99,
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contributed 50,000 sats. He said, stay humble and stack sats. Really great advice, Eric.
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We had Vake saying very helpful episode. Thanks. The intro music is weirdly soothing.
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Thank you, Vake. He contributed 14,000
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sats.
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Previously,
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we had,
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the Adam Back episode, CD 75, which I really enjoyed that conversation.
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We had Nate Johnson contribute 50,000 sats saying, this show is invaluable. I appreciate all you do for the space. Hope your family is okay.
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Thank you, sir. I appreciate that.
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I also was putting the Bitcoin dot review episodes that I was doing with NVK on the dispatch feed
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before he told me I wasn't allowed to do that anymore.
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And
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we had letter 6173
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with 7,000
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777
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sat saying all signal and 0 noise, amazing show.
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Last but not least, I put
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my Bitcoin Amsterdam 2022 conversation on the feed,
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which you freaks seem to appreciate.
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And we had Mallard Quackenbush
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contribute 50,000 sats saying free Ross. We had cryosats
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contributing 25,000 sats saying fight the good fight.
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Hashtag cryosats.
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So cheers. Oh, wait. This one's even better.
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Gotta read this one.
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And we have at stimmy with 21,000 sats saying, fuck fatfa and fuck circle 2. So on that note, we will continue to the show. I appreciate all you freaks.
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We have a great conversation lined up. It's actually one of the conversations that I was really excited to have in person.
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We tried to make it happen in person, but, unfortunately,
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we weren't able to.
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So we have,
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the Pleb Lab crew from Austin
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on the show today, and we're gonna have a really great conversation about Pleb Lab.
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We'll start with, we have we have thriller x Carr, my my former producer and
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partner in crime over at Rabbit Hole Recap. How's it going, Carr? Hey. How's it going, Matt? Thanks for having me on the show.
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Carr is also the cofounder of ClubLab, hence this conversation. And then we have,
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another cofounder of ClubLab, Kyle,
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at the Bitcoin Bum. How's it going, Kyle? It's going alright. My dude, how about yourself?
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Very good. Very good. I'm excited for this conversation. It's good to be back on air with dispatch with y'all.
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Okay.
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We have John,
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who is,
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the founder of Zaprite,
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a company that is based in Austin and works out of the Pleb Lab.
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How's it going, John?
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It's Going great. Stoked to be here.
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Thanks for joining us.
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So with all that said, I mean, I think the
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best way to start this conversation is,
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what is
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Pleb Lab?
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Yeah. Great question. I think,
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it's it's been an interesting journey over the past year kind of really trying to figure out ourselves what the answer to that question is.
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But plain and simple, we are a pleb driven,
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accelerator program for the Bitcoin era.
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I love it.
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So I have,
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the title of this episode is building a Bitcoin city with Pleb Lab.
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Austin has obviously
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become
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a
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mag has some kind of magnetic pull for Bitcoiners. It has become one of the predominant Bitcoin cities of the world, let alone America.
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Obviously, Pleb Lab has has been and you your crew over there has been playing a key role in that. Like, how do you
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how do you think about your role in Austin
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and how that,
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you know, how how that affects the the Publabs strategy as you guys build out here?
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It's it's,
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it's kind of fluid. It changes
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day to day, month to month. A lot of things in the space move really quickly and and changes happen fast, so we try our best to kind of stay flexible and make the changes that we need to when we need to. I think early on when we
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I mean, honestly,
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pre pleb lab when we started the Austin Bitcoin Club,
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the idea was just, like, a bunch of us seemed to be arriving in the city.
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There was only kind of, like, one time and place per month where everybody was actually getting together,
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which was at the time the bit depths over at Unchained Capital.
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And we launched Austin Bitcoin Club with just kind of a selfish desire to get together with Bitcoiners more often.
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And the more often we hung out with the Bitcoin scene and the people that were arriving and and the people that were deciding to stay,
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the more we realized there was just kind of, like, an unanswered question.
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The the bat signal was out there saying if you're a builder, come to Austin,
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but the the question that wasn't answered was like, what's next? And, we just basically tried to keep answering that question. It was, like, what's next?
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That what's next after getting a group of people together seemed to be finding a way to get developers together on a more regular basis
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and that grew into what we call PubLab today.
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I guess, like, your
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I mean, since I have you, Kyle, your personal story,
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you were drawn to Austin and Bitcoin kinda at the same time. Right?
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Yeah. It happened pretty fast. I mean, I learned about Bitcoin in 2016,
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but really, really, really briefly.
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And it was not a thing that I, like, went deep down the rabbit hole with at that time. I spent 4 years on kind of a spiritual journey around the world,
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and everywhere I went, I just kept meeting random people that would that would discuss Bitcoin with me, kind of diving into several hours long conversations,
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kind of piecing my understanding of it together.
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I didn't get skin in the game until,
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June
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or July of 2020
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during the pandemic kind of towards the tail end of the madness with the stock market after the crash.
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And shortly after I got into it,
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I realized that it it kind of
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I mean, I came to the conclusion that Bitcoin played a pivotal role
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in producing the most peaceful possible transition of power, and post military, I had always had this feeling that some type of revolution was imminent. So once I realized that I had found kind of, like, a a a premier puzzle piece for that
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that transition,
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I basically ended up going all in.
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While visiting some family in Dallas, I heard whispers in the wind,
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about this scene that was happening
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in Austin. I came down. I saw a 125
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Bitcoiners
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in the unchained space with no masks on, and I just never left.
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Love it.
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And I guess, John, you kinda have a similar story. Right?
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Yeah. Exactly.
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I mean,
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I was, like, I was initially drawn to Austin because of Bitcoin Twitter. Obviously, probably like a lot of us. It was just so much, like, signal on there about what's going on in Austin.
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And I
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was in Canada.
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Actually, funny enough, I'm back here right now. But, I was
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in Canada at the time, and I was kinda just, like, living up in the mountains kind of, like, away from society and, you know, not really kind of had much interaction with Bitcoiners at all other than kinda working on this little hobby project and trying to, like, reach out to people.
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And so when I kinda left, I just decided to do a little bit of traveling. I landed down in Austin. And just immediately,
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the the difference was just massive. Like, you could sense it, like, straight away that there was something, like, you know, really crazy, like, bubbling up, in Austin.
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And so yeah. Right from the start, it just started to, you know, everything just started to kinda snowball for me personally just because of
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people, like, meeting Kyle and Car and Keyon and guys at Pleb Lab and Austin Bitcoin Club.
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It just it just offered this amazing, like, place to get together and chat to people and and figure out what was going on.
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I think there was, like, a BitDevs,
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like, 3 days after I arrived in Austin or something. And I remember going into the old Unchained office, and it was, like, a sweat box. It was, like, 250 people in there. And, like, you could couldn't really talk to anybody, and then you're going out for barbecue afterwards. And it's like, you know, it's it's great, but it's kinda hard to have these, like, you know, deeper conversations.
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And then I went to, like, the Austin Bitcoin Club, and that was just way more casual and much more, like, kinda chill. And that's where I met so many different people. I could have, like, you know,
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more kind of, like, you know, longer deeper conversations.
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And then obviously, like, after a couple of days, like, I met Kyle and, you know, we we started talking about this idea for pleb lab and things like that, and then that kind of, like, grew from there.
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But, yeah, just immediately like, once you land in Austin, you can immediately sense that there's something something going on, and it's in no small part to to these guys here, obviously.
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Yeah. I mean, it's extremely impressive what you all have built over there. I mean, obviously, we've been taking a lot of inspiration
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for that in Nashville with Bitcoin Park and just the community initiatives we have. I mean, you mentioned BitDevs. We've been doing a for the last year, we've had a very strong meet up,
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scene in Bitcoin meetup scene in Nashville, but we finally launched, proper BitDevs.
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I was you know, I'm I'm formally from New York
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where we had the OG of BitDevs.
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So I have a lot of respect for BitDevs, and I I was one of the proponents that, like, refused to
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launch 1,
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until
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until we were, you know, set to do it the right way. But we have our 2nd bid devs ever is going to be
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tonight at Bitcoin Park. So if you are in the Nashville area, you should consider going.
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Car,
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AODM.
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Just before I get lost in there, man, there's a a comment from notleo.
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Pleb at plebweb
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are also are you also a contact for international plebs randomly passing through Austin?
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Yes. For sure. Reach out to us.
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You can hit us on the Twitter handle
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at pleb lab, or feel free to reach out to any of the the founders and shoot us a DM. We're we're always looking to work with cool people who are swinging through Austin.
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Awesome.
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Yeah. Now Leo said that in our matrix chat,
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which
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anyone can join at,
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citadel dispatch.com if you click that citadel chat button. The matrix chat is extremely active. We over have over a 1000 Bitcoiners that are constantly talking about
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really cool things.
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It is obviously broadcast
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live during civil dispatches, but conversation happens there 247, 365.
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So consider joining,
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Self hosted, end to end encrypted.
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Not that you really have any privacy in a group chat, because any one of those, a 1000 people could be spooks. We probably have at least
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12 spooks in the in the chat.
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Carr,
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you left me a rabbit hole recap to do Pleb Lab full time.
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Sorry. How's that going?
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It's going good.
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One of the things that I realized,
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you know, doing doing rabbit hole recap and working with Marty is just, like, the amount of
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just media knowledge that I learned from y'all and then just how to conduct yourselves in the Bitcoin space. I think most apparent point, we also learned, like, the work ethic that you guys have.
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But it was it was amazing to see to see it on a daily basis with with, with Marty
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and kinda understand, like, what it takes to actually run a company and and be successful at it. I think for me, like,
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starting out that way and doing it that way was, like, the best way to get into the Bitcoin space. I I just got extremely lucky and extremely blessed.
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And, it got to a certain point. Like, once we moved into the lab, it was it was kinda obvious to me that
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there was absolutely no way
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I I could do both jobs to the greatest of my ability anymore.
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And I think that's that that was, like, the main reason,
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to focus entirely on on Pleb Lab,
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was to give everything to it just like I had given everything to, like, TFTC.
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You know?
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So yeah.
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And you also,
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took away from t well, first of all, I would wanna say I'm very, you know, I'm very excited for you guys.
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And,
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I was, you know, I was joke I mean, obviously, I miss you
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at rabbit hole recap, but, I was very happy when you told me the news.
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We,
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you also took you also took away from TFTC
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TFTC
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your
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love
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of borderline,
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trademark infringement,
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since all of your shows that you guys seem to be launching out of ClubLab,
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all
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are have the same acronyms
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as as popular shows just coincidentally.
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I think I think that has more to do with,
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you know, showing how all these fiat companies
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are
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not going to exist anymore once Bitcoin kind of becomes a standard, and it's just like sending a message. You know?
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That's how I look at it. I don't know if that's how the rest of the guys look at it, but it's more about, like, kind of sending a message to the Fiat establishment that we're coming.
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Hey, Matt. You you also brought this up,
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at the the meetup in Nashville, and and I had a very similar answer back then. I I kind of joked around. But, honestly,
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after we left Nashville,
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it dawned on me that,
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to be honest, we just kind of copied you guys. You really inspired that from the beginning with TFTC,
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the first copyright infringement among this
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Yeah. And it's true. I didn't think about that. Yeah. Yeah.
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Yeah. Martin's I mean Yeah. I don't know what you're talking about. TFTC is a completely unique name that was just thought of
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just thought of randomly one day.
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I saw the shirts, Matt. I saw the shirts.
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So, I mean,
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we're on this tangent. So, like, how do you, obviously, Pleb Lab is a physical community space,
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but you guys also have,
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all this content. And
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in Nashville,
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we've been implementing a a relatively similar strategy. We often call it,
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locally produced, globally distributed, where you're building local community and in person events, but also at the same time, you're producing content
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that is distributed around the world.
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How do you guys like, how does that fit into the
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and how do you guys think about that when you're thinking about the Publabs strategy?
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I I personally I personally look at it, like, really simply, and it's I kinda got it more from the devs than anybody else. It's just like building in public.
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You're seeing the legends of lightning guys do that.
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You know, I was I was able to talk to John's a couple of times before they launched that, and
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he had a lot of questions about that. And I I told him it was like it's it like, all the other guys that are rubbing off on us, here inside the lab, all these other devs that build in public, Mind you, a lot of them are NIMs, but there's something to be said about, you know, pushing code up to GitHub and everybody seeing everybody verifying it. So that's kinda how the way I look at it. And then the other thing, just from, like, a PlubLab perspective,
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is just the amount of people you can inspire. Right? It's how many other labs are are being created because they see us
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here in Austin doing what we're doing. And I think that that's another thing that's really important
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is showing people that there is a light out there and we can break through it,
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just by
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these little pieces of media that that go out to the masses.
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That building in the open comment is really interesting because,
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I mean, I've I've personally taken a lot of influence,
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from our open source community.
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You know, I came to the realization
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years ago, basically, after the Snowden leaks that are only
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shot at freedom and sovereignty was was the open source movement, Bitcoin and the greater open source movement. And since then, I've kind of tried to model
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everything I do off of that movement.
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And it's it's it's super interesting how it is obvious
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in
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open source
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developer culture,
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the way they do things. But when you try and model it for other things, people think you're crazy. So, like, for civil dispatch,
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it's live, it's unedited,
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it has uncensored live chat that anyone can participate in. I don't have ads or sponsors. It's completely funded via donations of our audience.
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People think that's crazy. Open Sats, you know, we as a 100% pass through, we don't take a salary out of it. We pass
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all any funds donated or passed to, you know, directly to open source contributors.
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People think we're absolutely crazy for that. Why don't we take,
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you know, why don't we take a 5% vig off of all donations like all the other nonprofits do?
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So it should be interesting
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watching this, you know, new generation as this open source movement gets stronger and stronger, kind of take that similar model and and implement it on various
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different initiatives.
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I think it could be very significant. I think people are really underestimating,
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how powerful that model is.
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I think
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this this, like,
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open source modeling, it it comes up a lot especially as we are, like, really getting more and more focused on working with startups,
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and the the real kind of challenge of finding the the balance between open source and actually
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earning an income with that open source kind of ethos.
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And I I think the balance is really important to touch on because open source is important. Like, PlugLab has kind of been open source since the very beginning. Anybody that has reached out
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asking, like, how we've done what we've done, like, how are we structuring it? I've given everything I have to anybody who's asked,
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but I but I also think it is important to note that
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if you are out there and you're looking at trying to start a company, but you're trying to keep it on an open source model,
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there's something to be said about
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timing and figuring out how all of that works, because
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it is true that open source is great, like, information being free is great, like, let the best man win.
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But I think at the same time, like, people who are trying to grow out this ecosystem,
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the people who are inspired to build,
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it's important that they are meeting their own kind of needs. Right? Like, it's very difficult
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to help anybody else if you are not first taking care of yourself. If you find yourself in a place where, like, you have no financial worries at all, and you can just free and open source everything right from the get go, I think that's great. I think keeping some things close to your chest in the early days is also a completely valid
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approach because,
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like, if you're starving and you can't keep a roof over your head and you can't, like, put food in your family's belly, like, you can't really help anybody else out either. So
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Yeah. And too, Matt, also, like, when we had that,
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when we had that that panel talk at at UT about couple weeks ago, this was a question that they they asked in the room. Like, this this is the these graduate students were asking us, like, well, why would I go and create on Bitcoin if it's open source? Like, how do I make that into a a startup?
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And I think I think John and Keyon had, like, really great answers. John, do you remember what exactly you told them?
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I don't remember exactly
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what the answer I think my answer
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because I think you guys all thought that's upright was open source, so I got, like,
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caught up in that.
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I think my I think my answer was more that, like, instead of going the open source route, which you know is upright probably will eventually, like, I'm a huge fan of open source, and I definitely wanna have, like, at least, you know, a start 9 or Umbral app or something you can run on your node that will be, like, just completely open source. You can pull it down and run it. That that will definitely come eventually.
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But I think my answer in that panel in UT was more to do with the fact that I'm focusing on the self custody aspect of it.
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Is that, you know, that's my kind of important
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goal, at least now in the early stages of Zappar. It's just to build the tools that allow for people to to keep doing self custody
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rather than trying to build a custodial model,
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and have it, like, open source. You know, if you're doing if you're promoting self custody and you're building the tools that allow for self custody,
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then the open source part is important, but it's not as important. Right? Because we're not actually, like, custodying funds or doing anything that could, like, take anybody's money.
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But still, you know, it would be good to actually show the code that's running under underneath it.
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But, yeah, it's a huge it's a huge aspect of of building, and I love to see it particularly in the Bitcoin ecosystem. There's a lot of it. And it's definitely, you know, viable. Look at what Keyon is doing with Stacker News. Like, it's definitely,
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an option to build. There's so many open source,
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companies out there that are that are thriving. So it's great to see.
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Is Stacker News open source?
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Yeah. Yeah. Completely.
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Yeah. So just for the freaks Yeah. Stack Stagger News is founded by,
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the 3rd cofounder of PlebLab, who unfortunately couldn't join us, Keyon.
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I was gonna say, Matt.
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Yeah. I was gonna say that that's the thing that I realized early on was just from talking with Keyon is, like, there's a way to do it. Like, there's a way to do both. It's a fine line to walk, but it can be done.
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And it's just like keeping the the IP, the the whether whether it's the Web of Trust or or whatever algorithm that he's implementing on the back end. Like, maybe that's the that's the stuff that he keeps close to the chest and everything else is open source.
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We're gonna have him do a web of trust workshop here
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in a couple weeks, so
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we'll be able to to see kinda how all that works. But I know he was talking to Carballo a lot when he was kinda developing that. So I think there is something to it. It's it it just has to be done in in a very careful and and,
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you know, obviously, fine line way. So
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Tony's asking where the source is, but, we can just let him go look for it. Oh, good. Told him where it is. Yeah. You can tell him. It's interesting, actually, where the trust of is is probably not I can understand if that's not
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fully open sourced, but the the rest of it is absolutely. Yeah. That's Look. I mean, it it depends it depends on on on what what type of company you're running and a bunch of different nuances, and there's,
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you know one of our favorite things to do on dispatch is argue about open source licensing because there's so many different licenses you can use.
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In Stacker News' case,
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is I think is a perfect example of something where
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the most value of it,
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is accrued to
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the brand and the network effect of the brand.
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So, yeah, like, if I have the source, I can go and create my own version of Stacker News.
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But unless, like, he absolutely fucks up management of Stacker dot news, like, that's gonna be where the majority of users are
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and a site that has more users in that context is is a more useful tool.
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So,
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I actually think that's a perfect example where,
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you know, you can have your cake while also you you can monetize relatively easily,
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while also providing the source.
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And then there's there's basically 2 arguments
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for
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why open source is important.
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One is the false argument, which is free in open source software, just a high level here just to get this out here since we're talking about it, where you're actually allowing anyone to take the code,
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change it, don't change it, distribute it, sell it, brand it however they want, do whatever they want with the code, that's extremely
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helpful from a censorship resistant and robustness of the movement point of view because it means that this code is viral. It doesn't die with any individual or company and will outlive us all. And then you have the source viewable licenses, which many will argue is not fully open source,
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because it isn't.
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And those licenses basically say you can't do anything with the code.
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This is to the extreme. You can't do anything with the code,
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but you can view it and you can expect it and you can verify it. And that becomes very important when you're talking about sensitive activities,
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stuff like encrypted messaging,
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stuff like managing
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Bitcoin secrets, Bitcoin private keys,
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and being able to verify that even though the service is saying it's encrypted or even though the service is saying your keys are secure,
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that's actually the case and they're not doing some funny business there. So those are the two main reasons why open source
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is important,
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and it's up to, you know,
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individuals and and companies to decide how that fits in their model, but I think
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it is,
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it is mostly a myth that you can't monetize an open source. I think people just it might be a little bit more difficult,
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but, ultimately,
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it can be significantly more powerful,
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when you get there, and it doesn't have to be right away. Like, there there shouldn't be a necessarily a rush right in the beginning to do it.
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But it should ideally be on most people's,
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radar,
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especially if they're building Bitcoin tools. What were you saying, Carr? I I was gonna say it's it's one of the things that he he's he's always hit home with me on since I've met him
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last year, like, in the like, in the early days before Securus, like, really, really launched.
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And just hanging out with them and talking with them every day and spending time with them, I've come to, like, come to realize he's been right on a lot of things over time. And what I try to do at Publub is really focus on the users. It's it goes back to his ethos of, like, focusing on the users and making sure that they're happy, and what do you need to do to make sure that the the user base increases
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and what do they need. And I think for us at Publub, I think we're talking about this open source model how that can influence a lot of these labs being built. And I think that's one of those things that I really hit home on is that if we focus on the users, we focus on the devs inside the space,
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I think we'll be successful doing it. I I I don't think it's as it's as hard as people think.
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I think Keyon has proved over time that when you build a platform like a Snacker News or or even in the real world like a like a ABC or or a ClubLab,
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This can be done if you focus on the people inside the lab, inside the club, inside
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the inside the platform, so
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just wanna throw that out there.
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So we have, Rissa Labs,
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in the comments on Matrix.
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They are asking, is Pleb Lab a place for nontechnical
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plebs
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too? Yeah. I saw I saw that question, and then it got it got lost in time. But, the the answer is yes,
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in some regards. So desk space on, like, a day to day basis is,
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extremely limited due to just the kind of nature of, of the size of the space and the amount of money I have to spend on desks.
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That being said, outside of our kind of day to day
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co working where we we are kind of hyper focused on
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technical folks,
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adding kind of mind space to the like, act it really the co working space acts as a synergistic kind of side
411
00:32:11.915 --> 00:32:19.610
to our accelerator program. That being said, we do have a lot of things that we we do. We have our PBS. We have our weekend
412
00:32:20.150 --> 00:32:21.770
kind of low level technical,
413
00:32:22.725 --> 00:32:32.630
workshops that we do on Saturdays. There's a lot of things that we do that are open to, like, non devs and and nontechnical folks as well, so, yes, the answer is yes and no.
414
00:32:36.710 --> 00:32:37.210
Okay.
415
00:32:37.910 --> 00:32:38.730
Shall we
416
00:32:39.510 --> 00:32:41.610
go back to your comment about,
417
00:32:42.565 --> 00:32:43.845
you know, building a a
418
00:32:44.645 --> 00:32:45.545
you you mentioned,
419
00:32:46.405 --> 00:32:48.265
wrestling with open source
420
00:32:48.645 --> 00:32:49.945
when it comes to
421
00:32:51.600 --> 00:32:53.380
helping startups in the space,
422
00:32:54.399 --> 00:32:57.380
at Pleb Lab. I mean, we have John here.
423
00:32:58.325 --> 00:33:03.085
He, you know, I guess he started John, like, how does Zap Right
424
00:33:03.525 --> 00:33:06.265
did how did Pleb Lab help with
425
00:33:07.039 --> 00:33:13.700
you building out Zap. Right? And how do you ex hope to see them go forward as they, like, kind of more formalize,
426
00:33:15.635 --> 00:33:18.054
you know, working with builders directly.
427
00:33:19.395 --> 00:33:19.895
Yeah.
428
00:33:21.235 --> 00:33:35.445
Well, for me, I kinda touched on it a little bit earlier about, you know, I kind of came down into Austin and wasn't really you know, didn't have much connection with the Bitcoin community even though I've been in Bitcoin for, like, quite a while before I started Zap. Right?
429
00:33:36.625 --> 00:33:37.764
But one of the things,
430
00:33:38.144 --> 00:33:46.470
you know, that immediately helped was just the fact that they were running Austin Bitcoin Club, and I could just meet up and and have very social interactions with other Bitcoiners.
431
00:33:47.490 --> 00:33:55.315
So that was, like, just immensely helpful just from getting into a new city and, like, you know, making new friends and meeting people and figuring out the lay of the land.
432
00:33:56.335 --> 00:34:05.700
But very quickly, I think within within a couple of days of of being in Austin, I met Kyle and we chatted about his idea for Pleb Lab. And I think he kind of offered me the first, like, desk in there,
433
00:34:06.800 --> 00:34:10.020
to kinda come in. And and that was that was huge because
434
00:34:10.455 --> 00:34:13.755
it just gave me, like, this co working space to kind of, like,
435
00:34:14.215 --> 00:34:19.595
sit and start thinking about Zap right on a deeper level and figure out, okay. Well, like, you know,
436
00:34:19.910 --> 00:34:37.079
this seems to be something here. There's a lot of people who are, like, excited about it, thinking about it. I should think about setting up a company. How do I do that? Of course, these guys had, like, you know, plenty of contacts that they had made from their their couple of months of already, like, hosting events in Capital Factory in Austin. So there's plenty of people to reach out to about that.
437
00:34:37.780 --> 00:34:40.680
And then as more and more developers, like, started to come in,
438
00:34:41.460 --> 00:34:47.424
you know, it was just amazing to be able to sit in the same, like, small little office around other, like,
439
00:34:47.724 --> 00:34:50.865
like, well known, well respected, like, Bitcoin developers.
440
00:34:52.029 --> 00:34:54.930
And then, of course, all the founders came in, Michael from Oshi,
441
00:34:56.029 --> 00:34:57.890
you know, bunch of other people.
442
00:34:58.349 --> 00:35:11.890
And that that on a personal level, that just helped me so much because it just got me to to think I'd never started a company before. So it got me to think about how, you know, founders think about different things, what's important, like, what's what you should be kind of focusing on.
443
00:35:13.230 --> 00:35:21.875
And then, of course, there was just the the the massive amount of, like, community events and things that they were running, like Block Party and things like that that were just exposing
444
00:35:22.869 --> 00:35:23.369
Zaprite
445
00:35:23.670 --> 00:35:35.565
and Bitcoin in general to, like, just a huge audience, which was, of course, you know, putting more of a spotlight on what was happening in Austin, which then attracted, like, VCs. And there was so many different, like, VCs and people passing through Austin.
446
00:35:36.265 --> 00:35:49.550
And then I just got to have so many more of those meetings. And then, of course, like, formed a company and started raising money. And all of that, I think, was, like, you know, not possible until I came down to Austin and met with these guys and, like, kind of
447
00:35:49.915 --> 00:35:54.735
just, like, landed on their springboard and basically was able to just, you know,
448
00:35:55.115 --> 00:35:59.240
piggyback on all of the the proof of work that these guys were putting in.
449
00:35:59.720 --> 00:36:00.940
I think it just accelerated
450
00:36:01.400 --> 00:36:01.900
Zaprite's,
451
00:36:02.360 --> 00:36:04.220
like, journey immensely,
452
00:36:05.080 --> 00:36:09.135
and my own personal one as well. I made so many amazing friends in Like, it's unbelievable.
453
00:36:10.235 --> 00:36:12.895
But, yeah, I mean, in terms of helping Zap, right, just
454
00:36:13.275 --> 00:36:16.975
just general marketing events, like community events, different things
455
00:36:17.820 --> 00:36:19.200
that were constantly happening,
456
00:36:19.500 --> 00:36:20.000
hackathons,
457
00:36:20.300 --> 00:36:21.680
workshops, like sponsorships,
458
00:36:22.940 --> 00:36:31.035
just really, really good stuff to get the word out there, about SOPRITE and was, like, hugely beneficial, especially in those early days.
459
00:36:31.735 --> 00:36:40.839
Yeah. I mean, I I've sometimes I feel like I've known you for a decade, but it's probably closer to a year. I think I think you're we were introduced through Carr.
460
00:36:44.075 --> 00:36:50.655
I think, actually, it was probably earlier than that. I think through Vivek from Blockstream. Right? We jumped on a video call. It was Vivek
461
00:36:50.955 --> 00:36:52.575
because you had liquid support.
462
00:36:53.470 --> 00:36:57.970
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I remember that thing. Also a mainstay of the Austin community.
463
00:36:58.829 --> 00:37:04.235
Yeah. Vivint's awesome. Yeah. In our first call, you were doing that from the old pleb lab, I think.
464
00:37:05.175 --> 00:37:07.355
Yeah. That first call we jumped on was
465
00:37:08.430 --> 00:37:12.450
was in yeah. It was just in the capital factory, the old blah blah. Yeah.
466
00:37:12.990 --> 00:37:14.450
The new space is awesome.
467
00:37:15.395 --> 00:37:34.545
Yeah. It's great. Yeah. So, yeah, I think from that and then I think Carr introduced me to Marty, obviously, like being in Austin. And, you know, got on great with Marty and was just able to kinda tell him a lot more about what Saffron is trying to do and the bigger vision and stuff, and then, obviously, like, jumped on more calls with you guys. And Tony,
468
00:37:35.085 --> 00:37:38.305
we have Tony in the comments, another ride or die freak,
469
00:37:38.684 --> 00:37:43.025
saying someone uses liquid question mark. I think that was the conclusion of our
470
00:37:44.420 --> 00:37:50.200
conclusion of our talk is that nobody uses liquid. I see Tony using liquid all the time inside of ClubLab. What is he talking about?
471
00:37:50.904 --> 00:37:55.244
Well, the funniest part is everyone was freaking out yesterday about the l and d bug,
472
00:37:56.025 --> 00:37:56.525
which
473
00:37:56.984 --> 00:38:00.480
made all the l and d nodes fall out of sync. But, if
474
00:38:00.780 --> 00:38:04.240
and by the way, Freaks, there's gonna be a dispatch very shortly,
475
00:38:05.100 --> 00:38:10.535
on that topic. It's gonna be great. So if you're not subscribed on the podcast feed, make sure you subscribe to that.
476
00:38:11.875 --> 00:38:14.215
But everyone was talking about the l and d bug.
477
00:38:14.515 --> 00:38:21.290
And meanwhile, if if if the liquid Twitter account had tweeted out that they were having issues as well, I don't think anyone would have noticed.
478
00:38:24.315 --> 00:38:27.055
At least they're all Is is Tony not building LiquidSploit?
479
00:38:27.355 --> 00:38:27.855
No?
480
00:38:28.795 --> 00:38:30.255
Yeah. Tony, when LiquidSploit?
481
00:38:31.730 --> 00:38:34.390
I think you said he should hack a new sploit first.
482
00:38:34.930 --> 00:38:38.070
Hack a new yeah. Now that he has the now that he has the source.
483
00:38:39.345 --> 00:38:39.845
So
484
00:38:40.305 --> 00:38:46.385
Kyle and Carr, to build on what John said, I mean, obviously, Pleb Lab was very early then. Those are just,
485
00:38:47.920 --> 00:38:59.645
you know, kind of knock on effects of the community building that you guys are doing in Austin. Like, how do you how do you look at supporting companies, you know, in a in a stronger way going forward? Like, what do you build on top of of that early,
486
00:38:59.945 --> 00:39:02.220
very positive experience that John just shared?
487
00:39:03.980 --> 00:39:08.240
Yeah. I mean, so here's the thing. It's, like, when we
488
00:39:08.619 --> 00:39:13.934
launched Pleb Lab as I as I kind of touched on much earlier on, it was really just
489
00:39:14.234 --> 00:39:18.095
a community of people that showed up to our Austin Bitcoin Club
490
00:39:18.640 --> 00:39:23.060
that had a kind of repetitive desire to get developers together,
491
00:39:23.600 --> 00:39:29.494
and all we did was we kind of kept running with that question of, like, what's next?
492
00:39:30.035 --> 00:39:36.135
And for us, that seemed obvious. It was like, let's just find a way to get developers together more often.
493
00:39:36.910 --> 00:39:38.529
Pleb Lab spawned.
494
00:39:38.829 --> 00:39:45.890
When we started Pleb Lab, it like, we kind of got really lucky that I had orange pill the VP of operations
495
00:39:46.675 --> 00:39:48.135
at the Capital Factory,
496
00:39:48.755 --> 00:39:52.055
and they gave us, like, a 3 month trial period
497
00:39:52.435 --> 00:39:55.095
for free with a 10 person office space.
498
00:39:55.650 --> 00:39:56.150
And
499
00:39:56.450 --> 00:39:56.950
knowing
500
00:39:57.250 --> 00:39:59.109
full well that, like, we were not
501
00:39:59.490 --> 00:40:04.895
an accelerator program. We had, like, an idea that what we could put together
502
00:40:05.195 --> 00:40:07.535
inside of a physical space with founders
503
00:40:07.835 --> 00:40:10.734
and really brilliant devs was something similar
504
00:40:11.115 --> 00:40:12.015
to an accelerator,
505
00:40:12.430 --> 00:40:18.690
but we also knew that we were not an accelerator. We were 3 plebs with a 10 person office
506
00:40:19.230 --> 00:40:21.570
and a belief that we could help people.
507
00:40:22.235 --> 00:40:28.095
And what we did with the guys like John and and everybody else who came into that first cohort, if you will,
508
00:40:28.395 --> 00:40:30.415
was we basically gave it away
509
00:40:30.760 --> 00:40:40.140
with the idea that, like, over time we could find a way to trend towards a business model and a deeper understanding of what we do,
510
00:40:40.825 --> 00:40:45.224
and that's kind of where we're at now. As time has gone on, we went to
511
00:40:45.545 --> 00:40:52.270
I mean, you you were in some of the conversations back and forth with me kind of helping me piece it all together, but, like, we went through
512
00:40:52.570 --> 00:40:56.670
dozens, if not hundreds of iterations of, like, how to kind of
513
00:40:58.275 --> 00:41:00.855
explain the business model that we have here.
514
00:41:01.235 --> 00:41:05.255
And what we've kind of alluded to today is that we are
515
00:41:05.910 --> 00:41:07.930
an accelerator program kind
516
00:41:08.310 --> 00:41:10.490
of rebuilt for the Bitcoin era and
517
00:41:10.950 --> 00:41:12.010
for two reasons.
518
00:41:12.310 --> 00:41:14.010
It was rebuilt because
519
00:41:14.465 --> 00:41:17.125
necessity. We were not like a $1,000,000,000
520
00:41:17.505 --> 00:41:22.405
exit CEO who just, like, wanted to start a Bitcoin accelerator program with, like, fun money,
521
00:41:23.779 --> 00:41:24.599
but also
522
00:41:24.980 --> 00:41:34.115
because it actually seemed to us necessary to kind of reimagine the accelerator program for the Bitcoin era, because this is not,
523
00:41:35.134 --> 00:41:36.595
a new technology.
524
00:41:37.134 --> 00:41:38.994
It's the new technology,
525
00:41:39.720 --> 00:41:41.020
And I think that
526
00:41:41.320 --> 00:41:49.340
there's value in the accelerated models of the past, but I think for the way that Bitcoin's being built with it being free and open source,
527
00:41:49.705 --> 00:41:52.525
there's a lot of nuances in this technological
528
00:41:52.825 --> 00:41:53.965
era that are significantly
529
00:41:54.345 --> 00:41:56.045
different than web 2,
530
00:41:56.585 --> 00:42:00.100
and we've really tried to take an approach that kind of reorients
531
00:42:00.640 --> 00:42:03.300
an accelerator program to make more sense,
532
00:42:04.240 --> 00:42:06.135
for the startups we work with today.
533
00:42:06.935 --> 00:42:07.675
So basically,
534
00:42:08.455 --> 00:42:16.140
some of the differences that we see right now are that we like, we don't do cohorts. I use the term for lack of, like, really a better
535
00:42:16.520 --> 00:42:17.020
term.
536
00:42:17.640 --> 00:42:21.740
When we find rock stars who are building really cool things,
537
00:42:22.595 --> 00:42:28.135
if they're ready to work with us, we're ready to work with them. We will start day 1 as soon as they show up.
538
00:42:28.435 --> 00:42:29.895
We also don't really have,
539
00:42:30.500 --> 00:42:31.800
end dates. We
540
00:42:32.660 --> 00:42:36.119
will work with you as long as you wanna work with us. Our our kind of,
541
00:42:37.220 --> 00:42:39.160
goal is a first round of fundraising.
542
00:42:39.555 --> 00:42:40.515
So we,
543
00:42:40.915 --> 00:42:41.415
include
544
00:42:42.035 --> 00:42:48.535
free access to our space and all of our resources for as long as it takes to get our startups funded.
545
00:42:49.360 --> 00:42:57.380
After that, we hope that they wanna stick around and continue to add brainpower and understanding of the ecosystem for for entrepreneurship,
546
00:42:58.545 --> 00:42:59.525
for the next
547
00:42:59.825 --> 00:43:01.525
group of people coming through.
548
00:43:02.305 --> 00:43:04.405
But, yeah, it's basically, like, indefinite
549
00:43:05.619 --> 00:43:06.119
assistance,
550
00:43:07.059 --> 00:43:14.119
because, really, what we've built here isn't just like a business model. It it has become a business, but, really, it's a group of friends
551
00:43:14.465 --> 00:43:24.720
who care about one another and want to see each other and the Bitcoin ecosystem succeed, and I think that's probably the biggest difference between us and the the
552
00:43:25.260 --> 00:43:26.880
the kind of fiat competition
553
00:43:27.180 --> 00:43:29.200
accelerator programs of the past.
554
00:43:30.175 --> 00:43:31.155
What we do
555
00:43:31.455 --> 00:43:33.235
also, Matt, is, like,
556
00:43:33.695 --> 00:43:35.395
we have a kind of umbrella
557
00:43:36.735 --> 00:43:37.235
program.
558
00:43:37.630 --> 00:43:43.810
We we kind of know, like, where we get started and kind of how to road map towards the end of the fundraising,
559
00:43:44.190 --> 00:43:46.770
but we also tailor every single,
560
00:43:48.704 --> 00:43:58.369
approach to the founder's needs with where they are as a founder and a company when they come through the door because each and every founder has a a different
561
00:43:59.069 --> 00:44:02.130
set of skills and a different set of needs when they come to us.
562
00:44:03.625 --> 00:44:12.605
Yeah. I think I think Awesome. Just to piggyback what Kyle is saying, I I think the biggest thing that we found out, Matt, over the course of, you know, a year at this point doing this is that,
563
00:44:13.750 --> 00:44:27.365
each each person, each individual, each Bitcoiner, each founder is different. And and they're different in in in, like, a lot of different skill sets, but a a lot of different paths of where they are in in their life and and in their company's life. And what we try to do is just really
564
00:44:27.745 --> 00:44:30.885
look at look at it from a how can we help perspective,
565
00:44:31.240 --> 00:44:35.420
and then we get them plugged into the people that they need help with. Right? And then
566
00:44:36.039 --> 00:44:42.315
we even do one better where we try to really game plan, like a rollout, kind of like a, a a a a
567
00:44:43.115 --> 00:44:45.695
an entryway to launching their company.
568
00:44:46.475 --> 00:44:49.135
I I've I've come to realize that doing it that way,
569
00:44:49.579 --> 00:44:58.880
especially with Bitcoiners, is is just the easier way and more natural way to do it as opposed to forcing people in a cohort and forcing them to,
570
00:44:59.295 --> 00:45:02.915
you know, get done by a certain time, like, sure that works. But
571
00:45:03.215 --> 00:45:05.155
where we're located inside of Austin,
572
00:45:05.455 --> 00:45:14.720
it's not really Austin me, I should say, like, to to do that. It's more Austin's kinda very laid back and chill, and it's a like, the city that we're in
573
00:45:15.964 --> 00:45:23.905
plays a big role in how we kinda run the accelerator right now. I I would say I don't know if Kyle believes that, but I I certainly see it. You look at a lot of the Austin
574
00:45:24.359 --> 00:45:27.660
main state companies here, it's a very relaxed environment.
575
00:45:27.960 --> 00:45:28.460
And,
576
00:45:29.480 --> 00:45:31.660
people like to work hard, but they also like to
577
00:45:34.315 --> 00:45:34.815
relax.
578
00:45:35.835 --> 00:45:39.435
Well, I think just also the other thing that,
579
00:45:39.915 --> 00:45:42.210
is is kind of something that we do here,
580
00:45:42.670 --> 00:45:48.050
with the program that we've put together, and and you touched on it, I think, before we started recording, Matt, is that,
581
00:45:49.875 --> 00:45:52.375
we're really scrappy because we had to be. We're
582
00:45:52.675 --> 00:45:54.855
aiming to assist startups
583
00:45:55.475 --> 00:45:56.455
while ourselves
584
00:45:57.075 --> 00:45:58.135
being a startup,
585
00:45:58.830 --> 00:46:05.890
and that has had that has had an, like, a profound effect on our own kind of critical thinking about how to operate.
586
00:46:06.670 --> 00:46:07.650
We're not
587
00:46:08.145 --> 00:46:09.845
giving start ups $250,000.
588
00:46:11.105 --> 00:46:16.885
We're not flying them halfway around the world and putting them up in lodging, but what we are doing is is
589
00:46:17.660 --> 00:46:18.480
giving them
590
00:46:18.940 --> 00:46:26.000
our blood, sweat, and tear equity. Like, we we're putting in literally everything we have every single day,
591
00:46:26.424 --> 00:46:35.980
and we are, like it's not just proof of work. It's like compounding proof of work. The people who are in the program today, like, our first round of, like, the official
592
00:46:36.540 --> 00:46:40.560
accelerator program in pleb lab phase 2, we've seen
593
00:46:40.940 --> 00:46:41.440
tremendous
594
00:46:41.980 --> 00:46:43.020
growth and,
595
00:46:43.340 --> 00:46:44.240
a kind of, like,
596
00:46:45.134 --> 00:46:47.075
ease, if you will, relative
597
00:46:48.095 --> 00:47:03.474
to the first cohort. Because not only have we learned a lot about what we're doing, but we also have a ton of other people around who have learned a lot about this space. And we're all kind of compounding that proof of work over and over and over again, and it just kind of gets exponentially
598
00:47:03.775 --> 00:47:04.275
better.
599
00:47:05.775 --> 00:47:07.055
Yeah. You're building with,
600
00:47:09.135 --> 00:47:11.875
in you're you're almost appear in the building process.
601
00:47:12.599 --> 00:47:25.455
Yes. Correct. I mean, there was some real challenges in that model in the beginning because we brought in a couple of founders, and we brought in a couple of really smart people like Tony Georgio here in the chat.
602
00:47:25.835 --> 00:47:29.855
And, like, as we were a peer in the process ourselves
603
00:47:30.330 --> 00:47:32.830
kind of, like, on the brink regularly
604
00:47:34.250 --> 00:47:37.070
of kind of, like, okay. How are we going to pay the bills
605
00:47:37.424 --> 00:47:45.600
next week? How are we gonna pay the bills next month? There were some real struggle points where it was, like, okay. We're actually kind of pushing people away with
606
00:47:45.920 --> 00:47:51.460
this energy of, like, kind of doom and gloom on a regular basis, and it took a long time to work through that.
607
00:47:53.175 --> 00:47:59.835
But it it I think in the long run, it strengthened all of us because we all had to kind of go through the same struggles together,
608
00:48:00.350 --> 00:48:02.610
and we've come out stronger forward on the other side.
609
00:48:03.150 --> 00:48:07.890
Well, all that is great, but, Tony wants to know if he can play his pleb lab bill with liquid.
610
00:48:11.495 --> 00:48:14.555
I don't I don't know. Do you take you take liquid on Zap. Right? Right?
611
00:48:14.855 --> 00:48:17.515
Yeah. Yeah. He does. He does. We don't take liquid
612
00:48:17.975 --> 00:48:18.955
at Pleb Lab.
613
00:48:20.349 --> 00:48:25.569
Sorry, Tony. Rugged again. You're gonna have to convert that liquid BTC to to regular Bitcoin.
614
00:48:28.234 --> 00:48:30.655
So another thing I wanted to touch on was
615
00:48:31.275 --> 00:48:33.454
something that we're also doing in Nashville,
616
00:48:35.900 --> 00:48:39.760
which, by the way, I hope the theme of this this show is is
617
00:48:40.860 --> 00:48:42.800
a budding and prosperous partnership
618
00:48:44.695 --> 00:48:46.715
between Pleb Lab and Bitcoin Park.
619
00:48:48.135 --> 00:48:48.635
Absolutely.
620
00:48:48.935 --> 00:48:49.435
Yeah.
621
00:48:49.895 --> 00:48:52.700
Just real quick, Matt. We've learned so much from y'all. Like
622
00:48:53.180 --> 00:49:12.830
like, going over there and hanging out with you and Rod and seeing how y'all do things, like, it's made us, like, more aware of, like, where we're failing. Right? It's it's seeing the things that you guys do really, really well and, like, saying, how can we do the same thing at Plubhub? It's really learning from each other. And even seeing Terminus and seeing those guys in Atlanta and learning from them, it's
623
00:49:13.390 --> 00:49:17.490
it it it's gonna take all of us to figure this out. Like, that's what I believe.
624
00:49:19.125 --> 00:49:19.625
100%.
625
00:49:20.565 --> 00:49:24.404
But where I was going with it is so we have been focused
626
00:49:24.964 --> 00:49:26.105
we have 2 universities,
627
00:49:27.010 --> 00:49:28.230
Belmont and Vanderbilt
628
00:49:28.690 --> 00:49:33.270
that are blocks away from Bitcoin Park. And we've had you know, we're, like, starting
629
00:49:33.570 --> 00:49:34.710
various initiatives,
630
00:49:35.330 --> 00:49:36.470
with those students.
631
00:49:37.155 --> 00:49:38.135
You guys mentioned,
632
00:49:39.075 --> 00:49:39.575
UT,
633
00:49:39.955 --> 00:49:41.175
University of Texas.
634
00:49:42.755 --> 00:49:45.015
I guess all 3 of you went and presented
635
00:49:45.329 --> 00:49:46.770
there. How do you how do you think about,
636
00:49:47.809 --> 00:49:52.470
I also saw a picture on Twitter of Kyle shirtless outside of one of the campus buildings.
637
00:49:52.914 --> 00:50:01.575
Like, how do you guys think about those initiatives and and how that impacts Bitcoiners in general? I mean, getting this next generation into Bitcoin and interested.
638
00:50:03.860 --> 00:50:09.960
Carr, you wanna touch on that first? Yeah. I I I think it's I think it's really simply just being there to answer questions.
639
00:50:11.135 --> 00:50:15.315
Right now, TOFR is doing a really good job along with Dee to to get
640
00:50:15.855 --> 00:50:17.555
more and more Bitcoin focused
641
00:50:18.015 --> 00:50:19.715
education inside of UT.
642
00:50:20.330 --> 00:50:29.295
Me and Telstra me and Telstra have discussed, you know, reaching out to ACC, which is our local community college because I think there's a there's a big need there, and it's probably an easier sell
643
00:50:29.994 --> 00:50:30.494
personally.
644
00:50:31.674 --> 00:50:34.974
I I do think I think I think in order to really get
645
00:50:36.050 --> 00:50:38.630
more Bitcoiners moved over from this, like,
646
00:50:39.090 --> 00:50:42.310
crypto space here in town is we have to hit the city.
647
00:50:42.770 --> 00:50:52.065
So that's gonna be, like, one of the things that I focus. I really started kinda moving in that direction already, but I think next year, really gonna start focusing in and on getting Bitcoin
648
00:50:52.740 --> 00:50:57.619
involved in in the city at some in some segment. Because right now, I think a lot of these these,
649
00:50:58.020 --> 00:50:58.920
crypto companies
650
00:50:59.460 --> 00:51:02.694
kinda give them the wrong information. So I think it's just
651
00:51:03.474 --> 00:51:07.095
I've I've realized that in order for us for PlubLab to become the
652
00:51:07.470 --> 00:51:20.665
the the Austin Bitcoin company that I I foresee it becoming, we have to be more involved with our community here inside of the city, inside of the education space and stuff like that. And I think you guys are doing similar things in Nashville. So I think it's the way I think.
653
00:51:21.045 --> 00:51:34.355
I I also think it's interesting because, like, we noticed kind of, I don't know, a while ago that they're just the one of the biggest challenges is that there just isn't enough builders. Like, we want to see so many more builders.
654
00:51:34.735 --> 00:51:36.995
And for a while, we were kind of on this
655
00:51:37.295 --> 00:51:40.050
this thought wave of, like, okay. How do we build
656
00:51:40.350 --> 00:51:41.650
more builders? And
657
00:51:42.430 --> 00:51:48.050
I actually think that building more builders is is probably a good thing, and I I would say that's
658
00:51:48.434 --> 00:51:52.375
the educational side of things. I think the other thing that we're kind of
659
00:51:52.835 --> 00:51:55.414
looking to try and do now is is
660
00:51:55.940 --> 00:51:56.440
using
661
00:51:56.740 --> 00:52:01.320
UT, using Austin Community College, using our local tech and entrepreneurial meetups
662
00:52:01.700 --> 00:52:03.320
to actually not build
663
00:52:03.860 --> 00:52:04.680
new builders,
664
00:52:05.125 --> 00:52:06.265
but to facilitate
665
00:52:07.445 --> 00:52:08.345
better builders
666
00:52:08.965 --> 00:52:12.425
on a better ecosystem. Because there's actually
667
00:52:13.289 --> 00:52:14.029
a ton
668
00:52:14.490 --> 00:52:15.230
of builders
669
00:52:15.769 --> 00:52:17.309
in our local community.
670
00:52:17.690 --> 00:52:20.235
I think, really, what we just need to do is,
671
00:52:20.715 --> 00:52:23.615
get out there and kind of introduce them to,
672
00:52:24.475 --> 00:52:42.695
Bitcoin in a way that that makes sense for them to, like, want to come over and build on it. And I think our workshops getting involved with, like, helping to launch classes at UT, and then just really getting out there and talking with people on, like, a 1 on 1 basis at the the tons and tons of meetups around the city,
673
00:52:43.155 --> 00:52:50.430
are some of the ways we're kind of looking to approach that right now. So it's some level of, like, building new builders, but then also kind of facilitating,
674
00:52:51.609 --> 00:52:53.069
just like a knowledge base
675
00:52:53.369 --> 00:52:58.305
inside of a group of builders that that are already technical and really just trying to help them understand
676
00:52:58.765 --> 00:53:01.265
why it makes sense to come over and build on Bitcoin.
677
00:53:03.940 --> 00:53:11.160
It's very similar to the model that we did for Austin Bitcoin Club where you you just need to be a platform. Right? You don't you don't need to be
678
00:53:11.484 --> 00:53:14.385
heavy handed with this with the ClubLab sales pitch.
679
00:53:15.244 --> 00:53:17.825
And and I I think time and time again, that that
680
00:53:18.365 --> 00:53:19.505
that kind of pathway,
681
00:53:19.990 --> 00:53:22.730
has worked for us time and time again. So we're just gonna keep,
682
00:53:23.110 --> 00:53:26.970
you know, using that that kind of tool to to do it, and I think
683
00:53:27.485 --> 00:53:31.905
people will see the light, and they'll just they'll they'll know where to go. I I think I I believe that.
684
00:53:34.510 --> 00:53:35.490
Love that framing.
685
00:53:36.110 --> 00:53:37.250
I agree a 100%.
686
00:53:39.710 --> 00:53:43.410
So where do you guys wanna go with this? We're about 55 minutes in.
687
00:53:46.025 --> 00:53:48.685
I basically asked everything I wanted to touch on.
688
00:53:49.065 --> 00:53:50.925
You guys have anything you wanna touch on?
689
00:53:52.130 --> 00:53:57.349
Yeah. I think I think Kyle wanted to talk about this this, article that he sent over to Bitcoin Magazine.
690
00:53:57.730 --> 00:53:59.030
You wanna talk about that, Kyle?
691
00:54:00.395 --> 00:54:05.915
Yeah. I mean, that's a it's a good direction. I think, one of the things that we're
692
00:54:06.555 --> 00:54:11.010
I think it touches on what I kind of just said with this idea of facilitating,
693
00:54:12.510 --> 00:54:16.925
kind of, like, better builders on a better network is really starting to put out
694
00:54:17.245 --> 00:54:17.745
the
695
00:54:18.285 --> 00:54:18.785
the
696
00:54:20.045 --> 00:54:27.560
put out the signal or or at least just kind of start talking about getting it out there in the discussion realm is this idea of,
697
00:54:28.500 --> 00:54:29.720
Bitcoin transitioning
698
00:54:30.339 --> 00:54:33.800
into or having maybe already transitioned into,
699
00:54:34.725 --> 00:54:36.345
what I'm calling the
700
00:54:36.645 --> 00:54:37.145
application
701
00:54:37.445 --> 00:54:37.945
era.
702
00:54:38.805 --> 00:54:50.890
I think what we've seen up until now is a lot of, like, really heavy focus on the, like, move slow and don't break things, the, like, the privacy, the security, the robustness of its network and its infrastructure.
703
00:54:51.875 --> 00:54:54.375
And I think where we're seeing things go now,
704
00:54:55.075 --> 00:55:05.080
it requires, like, a a kind of conversation or several conversations to really figure out how things work as we move into this new era of, like, the things that aren't built,
705
00:55:06.340 --> 00:55:11.560
on Bitcoin or in Bitcoin, but that are built on top of Bitcoin. This
706
00:55:11.905 --> 00:55:16.484
now allows us to actually start moving fast and breaking things.
707
00:55:16.785 --> 00:55:19.765
And I I think one of our pleb devs in the space
708
00:55:20.180 --> 00:55:21.800
says it like this. He says,
709
00:55:23.220 --> 00:55:24.120
the introduction
710
00:55:24.420 --> 00:55:25.480
of the application
711
00:55:26.100 --> 00:55:28.920
era is how we move the network
712
00:55:29.365 --> 00:55:32.665
or introduce the network to the next 1,000,000,000 users,
713
00:55:32.965 --> 00:55:39.110
and and I think that's really true. So I think it's it's interesting to talk about what that looks like and and where we think it goes from here.
714
00:55:46.390 --> 00:55:48.330
Yeah. That makes a lot of sense to me.
715
00:55:51.325 --> 00:55:53.825
There's definitely been I've I've noticed a
716
00:55:54.684 --> 00:55:56.144
a sea change in
717
00:55:57.840 --> 00:55:58.500
kind of
718
00:55:58.960 --> 00:56:03.540
the community of builders in the space in a positive way over the last
719
00:56:04.480 --> 00:56:05.780
maybe 3 years,
720
00:56:07.695 --> 00:56:10.275
and it's very it's very noticeable,
721
00:56:11.055 --> 00:56:12.515
with the Austin crew.
722
00:56:14.570 --> 00:56:15.790
Particularly, like,
723
00:56:16.170 --> 00:56:18.990
I I think a good example of it is
724
00:56:21.685 --> 00:56:23.785
massive friend of the pod, Michael Atwood,
725
00:56:24.325 --> 00:56:26.745
and how he approaches building out Oshi.
726
00:56:27.525 --> 00:56:28.665
He's very much
727
00:56:29.080 --> 00:56:35.900
on the ground all the time, connecting directly with users. I guess, Keyon would be a very good example with Stacker News.
728
00:56:39.525 --> 00:56:42.585
We I felt like we really didn't have as much of that
729
00:56:43.204 --> 00:56:46.345
beef you know, maybe 5 years ago, 6 years ago,
730
00:56:48.420 --> 00:56:50.100
where, like, the founders were directly
731
00:56:50.820 --> 00:56:54.360
the the the builders were directly interacting with the users,
732
00:56:55.380 --> 00:56:57.240
to a larger degree. And particularly,
733
00:56:57.805 --> 00:57:00.865
I guess it always happened, but particularly new users,
734
00:57:01.245 --> 00:57:02.465
new, like, new Bitcoiners,
735
00:57:03.485 --> 00:57:06.065
people that are just coming into the space.
736
00:57:07.000 --> 00:57:09.340
Yeah. I think it's it's an important,
737
00:57:10.840 --> 00:57:12.060
like, it's an important
738
00:57:12.360 --> 00:57:15.635
transition in the space because, like, a lot of what already
739
00:57:16.015 --> 00:57:24.970
has been built, at least in my humble opinion, is, like, some of it really doesn't scale much further with out the growth of this layer.
740
00:57:26.470 --> 00:57:31.825
I Voltage, I think is a really great example of a company that that scales significantly faster,
741
00:57:32.365 --> 00:57:32.865
when
742
00:57:33.325 --> 00:57:43.300
I mean, it's built for the growth of the application layer. Right? Like, the more people building applications on top voltage, like, the more that that infrastructure layer scales,
743
00:57:43.600 --> 00:57:47.860
and I think that's probably not the only example. Like, a lot of these infrastructure
744
00:57:48.265 --> 00:57:49.965
things that have been put in place,
745
00:57:50.665 --> 00:57:54.285
the way to accrue more value to them is to get more people building,
746
00:57:55.065 --> 00:58:00.580
and that when those people build, it's like the the growth of that user base,
747
00:58:02.000 --> 00:58:07.345
grows as well. I think if you look back at web 2.0, it's like the same thing. Right? Like, the Internet was
748
00:58:07.905 --> 00:58:08.645
a great,
749
00:58:09.905 --> 00:58:12.645
discovery or invention as well. Right? But it it
750
00:58:13.105 --> 00:58:17.119
didn't really start becoming that valuable until email, and,
751
00:58:17.580 --> 00:58:18.080
like,
752
00:58:18.700 --> 00:58:24.240
all of the things, the applications that got built on top of the protocol started entering
753
00:58:25.725 --> 00:58:32.465
into, like, the realm of usability. Right? Like, it's everybody always talks about, like, when is it gonna be, like, usable?
754
00:58:32.930 --> 00:58:44.805
When when can, like, grandma use it? Like, all of these kind of questions about the next round of users, well, that comes from the application. It's the people who are building kind of unique use cases,
755
00:58:45.665 --> 00:58:56.450
across that protocol. That's really what I think is going to help scale up, the next round of users to Bitcoin. It's the people who kind of get it through the monetary lens, through the kind of revolutionary
756
00:58:56.910 --> 00:59:07.869
lens. I think a lot of the the purists, if not most of the purists, are kind of already here. Right? And now it's going to just get people involved through kind of very
757
00:59:08.250 --> 00:59:08.750
similar,
758
00:59:09.849 --> 00:59:13.309
use cases as the way the the the Internet got more and more users.
759
00:59:14.410 --> 00:59:15.869
Yeah. I'd a 100% agree.
760
00:59:16.500 --> 00:59:17.000
That.
761
00:59:18.525 --> 00:59:25.665
I'll let you go in a second, John, but we got Tony in the comments. He posted one of my favorite memes, which is the just use voltage button
762
00:59:26.040 --> 00:59:28.619
where it's like you can have voltage do
763
00:59:29.320 --> 00:59:36.605
all the heavy Bitcoin lifting on the back end when you just have an app that interfaces directly with what they have. John, go.
764
00:59:38.025 --> 00:59:47.230
Yeah. Well, actually, just I was gonna touch briefly on what Kyle said, but it also ties into what you just said as well about building applications on top of things like voltage that that is good. I mean,
765
00:59:48.090 --> 01:00:02.559
like, I I can't wait to get, like, some really awesome integrations done with Volta. Js. Like, we're we're talking and and working on some stuff that's, like, you know, I think is gonna be, like, really cool in the future. But this was one of the, you know, the main reasons about why
766
01:00:02.859 --> 01:00:03.599
I started
767
01:00:03.980 --> 01:00:06.640
Zapride in the first place was because I think
768
01:00:07.019 --> 01:00:16.965
I mean, I started it because it came out of a need that I had. I just needed an invoicing app because I was a contractor and I was earning Bitcoin and I needed to send, you know, professional invoices to companies.
769
01:00:18.270 --> 01:00:42.890
So it came out of that personal need. And then, obviously, like, I thought, well, we're gonna need more of these applications as as Bitcoin grows out. And I think Kyle is, like, right. And I I've heard him talk about this quite a lot about, you know, we're reaching that application layer stage where a lot of a lot of new businesses are gonna be built up, which abstract away a lot of the stuff that these amazing, like, Bitcoin and Lightning developers have been doing for the last few years
770
01:00:43.255 --> 01:00:48.795
and removing, you know, a lot of the complexity. Like, they've built these really great tools like Voltage.
771
01:00:49.095 --> 01:01:09.880
And then we can bring in, like, you know, designers, new UI, UX people like myself and others to to build startups on top of that again, which just bring it and expand it out to, like, that little bit more of a market. Right? And just make it a little bit more accessible and just bit by bit will just slowly creep out and start pulling in more of the traditional markets that,
772
01:01:10.740 --> 01:01:16.494
you know, we all know eventually, like, that things are gonna, like, move over onto Bitcoin and lightning, particularly in the payments
773
01:01:17.515 --> 01:01:20.654
area. But, obviously, like, it has a lot more applications as well.
774
01:01:21.275 --> 01:01:24.255
But, yeah, I mean, it's it's really it's really amazing
775
01:01:24.670 --> 01:01:25.490
as a founder.
776
01:01:26.430 --> 01:01:29.550
I mean, we talked about the benefits of of Pleb Lab,
777
01:01:30.030 --> 01:01:36.095
and what that did for me and Zaprite, but also just having tools like like Voltage there as well.
778
01:01:37.275 --> 01:01:42.780
You know, I'm not a I'm not a traditional developer. So I can't I can't, you know, build my own lightning implementation.
779
01:01:43.640 --> 01:01:45.100
And that is a per
780
01:01:45.560 --> 01:01:51.154
voltage is a perfect example with you because I I remember our original call, the reason liquid was
781
01:01:51.775 --> 01:01:54.035
even being brought up was because,
782
01:01:57.270 --> 01:02:00.490
Liquid is, by design, federated model. So
783
01:02:00.790 --> 01:02:01.770
it is custodial
784
01:02:02.070 --> 01:02:03.210
it's it's custodial,
785
01:02:03.510 --> 01:02:09.215
but it's multisync custodial. So the risk of the custodian is is reduced and minimized.
786
01:02:09.755 --> 01:02:14.119
But as a result of the trade offs Liquid has made, it's very easy for an app developer
787
01:02:14.819 --> 01:02:22.244
to integrate Liquid where they're not holding custody of the user funds and the user has a relatively seamless experience.
788
01:02:22.785 --> 01:02:30.290
Lightning was not the case. And I remember during that conversation we had, I I don't think Voltage existed yet or it wasn't that big
789
01:02:30.850 --> 01:02:36.710
yet. But we kept going back to I was like, I know you wanna keep a self custody so that you don't do KYC,
790
01:02:37.090 --> 01:02:41.785
and that's a key aspect of the value prop and reduces user friction in terms of convenience.
791
01:02:42.325 --> 01:02:46.184
But how do you do self custody lightning in an easy way for users?
792
01:02:46.680 --> 01:02:50.060
And now all of a sudden you have Voltage and you're able to basically
793
01:02:50.920 --> 01:02:56.835
send that user to Voltage, maybe have them plug in some kind of API key or something into Zap. Right?
794
01:02:57.135 --> 01:03:01.635
And all of a sudden, they can accept lightning payments without you having to take custody of funds.
795
01:03:02.630 --> 01:03:06.310
Yeah. Absolutely. There's so many amazing things that we can do.
796
01:03:06.950 --> 01:03:15.005
And yeah. I mean, you're right. The goal with Zapprite from the start has always been self custody and no k y c. As long as as it's, like, you know, possible
797
01:03:15.385 --> 01:03:16.045
in this,
798
01:03:16.585 --> 01:03:18.605
you know, market that we're entering into.
799
01:03:19.890 --> 01:03:22.630
And if we can keep building those tools where
800
01:03:23.090 --> 01:03:23.990
there's really
801
01:03:24.450 --> 01:03:35.485
easy UI, UX applications like Zap, right, that that have these deeper integrations into things like Voltage. And then you can, you know, simply, like you said, have these one click onboarding processes where people can
802
01:03:35.839 --> 01:03:45.460
spin up nodes where they still get control of the nodes. They have their access to their voltage dashboard if they need, but we've got some, like, mini UI stuff within Zap, right, that we can do.
803
01:03:46.305 --> 01:04:08.115
And we can have, like, really cool integrations where you send out an invoice, and we know, like, that you're expecting x amount of sats for this invoice. And we can say, like, oh, well, you need that inbound liquidity on on voltage. So how about, like, you know, we we give you some of our liquidity, and we use voltage's flow API, and we do all kind of, like, deeper integrations like that, which just abstract away a lot of that stuff,
804
01:04:08.835 --> 01:04:13.450
and get it to that grandma stage as as Kyle talks about. It's like we just need to
805
01:04:13.750 --> 01:04:15.130
we just need to build
806
01:04:15.590 --> 01:04:24.325
a lot of the the front end stuff that, like I said, piggybacks on top of the absolutely stellar work that's been done over the last few years on on at the protocol level.
807
01:04:24.945 --> 01:04:28.485
So since grandma keeps getting brought up, I just wanna say,
808
01:04:28.920 --> 01:04:31.580
like, yes, our grandmas can currently use,
809
01:04:31.880 --> 01:04:32.700
to a degree,
810
01:04:33.400 --> 01:04:35.660
you know, signal and Imessage and
811
01:04:35.960 --> 01:04:36.460
email.
812
01:04:37.975 --> 01:04:41.115
It's important to realize that when email was first created,
813
01:04:41.895 --> 01:04:43.595
those grandmas all have died.
814
01:04:45.300 --> 01:04:49.560
So we're really when when someone says we're, like, building for the grandmas,
815
01:04:50.580 --> 01:04:55.234
it's really like the people that are not quite grandmas yet or they're about to become grandmas.
816
01:04:55.535 --> 01:04:56.674
It would be grandmas.
817
01:04:57.535 --> 01:04:58.355
Yeah. Future
818
01:04:58.815 --> 01:05:00.914
future grandmas. Future future grandma.
819
01:05:01.300 --> 01:05:12.165
Another thing too, man, is, like, a lot of this stuff is, like, infrastructure at this point. Right? Like, you got voltage, you got IBEX, you got start like, you have a lot of infrastructure pieces already there.
820
01:05:12.465 --> 01:05:22.730
Now you just need more people building on top of it and and plugging into it. And and that's where I think, like, a Plublop can help is because we're seeing individuals come from different business sectors,
821
01:05:23.270 --> 01:05:35.285
and and they're looking to get into the Lightning or the Bitcoin space, but they don't know about the the the IBEXs, the the the the Voltages and the StartNines, and all those infrastructure companies are that are being
822
01:05:35.730 --> 01:05:36.230
platforms
823
01:05:36.610 --> 01:05:42.390
for anybody out there. And and I think that's the biggest thing I think that Publub can help with is that facilitation
824
01:05:43.010 --> 01:05:52.205
to those things. And and so So Yeah. I think it's I think it's so I think we're early, but I do see I do think, like, man, we're we're we're there. We're on that tipping point.
825
01:05:52.840 --> 01:05:58.940
So so I've got a question. I mean, I'm gonna phrase it the way Carr does, but do do you mind if we get a little bit spicy here?
826
01:06:00.075 --> 01:06:06.015
We love spicy on dispatch. Okay. Great. Our sponsors can't cancel us because our sponsors are our listeners.
827
01:06:06.875 --> 01:06:07.375
Fantastic.
828
01:06:08.020 --> 01:06:08.660
So it's,
829
01:06:09.060 --> 01:06:16.280
I I know this will probably get me somewhat attacked by a particular group of people, but it's a message that I had
830
01:06:16.994 --> 01:06:20.535
probably almost a year ago when we kind of started this thing.
831
01:06:22.115 --> 01:06:26.055
But I think to some extent, it's beyond Pleb Labs.
832
01:06:28.630 --> 01:06:32.490
A Pleb Lab can help facilitate a lot of the the kind of
833
01:06:33.350 --> 01:06:34.935
growth on an individual
834
01:06:35.235 --> 01:06:41.255
level for the builders that we work with. But, again, coming back to this this kind of
835
01:06:41.700 --> 01:06:47.240
reality that there aren't enough builders and that we're, like, looking to grow out the network of builders.
836
01:06:47.940 --> 01:06:48.340
I think,
837
01:06:49.665 --> 01:06:54.165
it's important that we we kind of, like, reframe some of the kind of language
838
01:06:54.625 --> 01:06:59.285
that we've seen in the space for a while now with this idea of, like, the way that we attack
839
01:07:00.049 --> 01:07:00.549
individuals
840
01:07:01.250 --> 01:07:05.109
who are kind of in the phase of their journey that's still shit coinery.
841
01:07:05.490 --> 01:07:11.815
I think, obviously, we wanna call out shit coinery. We wanna call out shit coins. We wanna call out the scammers.
842
01:07:12.275 --> 01:07:13.735
But I think for the, like,
843
01:07:14.195 --> 01:07:24.380
probably the bulk work of people who find themselves building there, they're just people, and they're trying to find a way to build something valuable, and they're trying to find a way to, like, provide for themselves.
844
01:07:24.845 --> 01:07:25.585
And I
845
01:07:25.885 --> 01:07:27.425
think, kind of attacking
846
01:07:27.805 --> 01:07:33.185
those types of people instead of, like, being open minded enough to allow for a discussion
847
01:07:33.610 --> 01:07:40.670
and to present them with the thoughts on why Bitcoin is better and why they could and should be building on Bitcoin.
848
01:07:41.015 --> 01:07:42.475
I think that's really important
849
01:07:42.775 --> 01:07:49.995
for the Bitcoin community at large is to, like, really start kind of trying to transition the the way we discuss
850
01:07:50.790 --> 01:07:51.849
Bitcoin versus
851
01:07:52.630 --> 01:07:53.770
building on shitcoins
852
01:07:54.070 --> 01:07:58.650
with that particular group of people, because it's a really large group of people, and they're technical,
853
01:07:59.005 --> 01:08:02.385
and they're again, they wanna build things. So I think
854
01:08:02.765 --> 01:08:11.190
yelling fuck you. You, like, you looked at the word Ethereum on a computer screen today is not really benefiting the growth of the application space,
855
01:08:11.490 --> 01:08:14.630
and I I think we should probably try to do something about that.
856
01:08:15.565 --> 01:08:18.945
So, like, I was actually I had a conversation about this other day
857
01:08:20.605 --> 01:08:23.185
because we're thinking about, you know, how
858
01:08:23.740 --> 01:08:27.120
I do a lot of consulting work for Bitcoin Magazine,
859
01:08:28.220 --> 01:08:29.520
and I I basically
860
01:08:30.994 --> 01:08:37.014
lead their open source initiatives over there. And we were thinking about where does Bitcoin Miami
861
01:08:37.850 --> 01:08:43.550
and the like, last year, we had a 2,000 person open source stage dedicated to open source contributors,
862
01:08:43.930 --> 01:08:44.989
and it was basically
863
01:08:45.305 --> 01:08:48.925
3 days of in person sale dispatch. That was sick.
864
01:08:49.545 --> 01:08:55.430
And we were we were thinking, like, what do we wanna do this year? And and the actual the topic came up,
865
01:08:56.930 --> 01:08:59.350
do we want to basically encourage,
866
01:09:00.690 --> 01:09:01.670
shit coin builders
867
01:09:02.045 --> 01:09:03.505
to switch over to Bitcoin.
868
01:09:05.164 --> 01:09:09.264
And then the question came up, well, how would the perception
869
01:09:09.565 --> 01:09:11.264
be among the Bitcoin community
870
01:09:11.620 --> 01:09:13.400
of that as a plan?
871
01:09:13.780 --> 01:09:15.640
And I do think there's a
872
01:09:16.020 --> 01:09:17.880
element here that is
873
01:09:18.635 --> 01:09:28.350
you kinda have to separate Bitcoin Twitter from real life. And a a perfect example is 100%. Someone who I consider a friend, Seth Seth for privacy.
874
01:09:29.850 --> 01:09:33.710
He's focused on Bitcoin privacy, but he's also focused on Monero.
875
01:09:34.490 --> 01:09:36.270
And because he's focused on Monero,
876
01:09:37.435 --> 01:09:38.795
he's, you know, often
877
01:09:39.595 --> 01:09:41.215
he has a he has a very
878
01:09:43.035 --> 01:09:46.575
there there's a lot of animosity with him in the Bitcoin Twitter community.
879
01:09:46.940 --> 01:09:49.199
And so I invited him down to Bitcoin Park,
880
01:09:49.980 --> 01:09:54.480
came to Bitcoin Park. He spent 2 days with us, 2 days with our local community.
881
01:09:55.515 --> 01:10:02.495
He had Zeus connected to his own node, lightning node, and he made his first in person lightning payments in our coffee shop.
882
01:10:03.195 --> 01:10:04.495
He kept trying to
883
01:10:05.120 --> 01:10:10.580
pay us more money than he he owed us because he was trying to get the lightning payments to fail, and they weren't failing.
884
01:10:10.960 --> 01:10:13.780
He left with, like, a cold card, an open dime,
885
01:10:14.355 --> 01:10:26.840
some swag, super excited. He goes on to Twitter. He tweets out. He's like, I just had the most positive experience with the National Bitcoin community. Like, it's made me completely change how I think about Bitcoin and how I wanna contribute to Bitcoin.
886
01:10:27.300 --> 01:10:29.480
And then he immediately got hit by, like,
887
01:10:30.020 --> 01:10:32.680
5 dozen responses calling him a shit coiner.
888
01:10:34.235 --> 01:10:35.215
Yeah. So,
889
01:10:35.995 --> 01:10:38.655
that that that's the reality of the situation.
890
01:10:39.435 --> 01:10:48.079
And and so this is where I think and I've I've talked about this with Tony. I've talked about this with, like, a bunch of people is, like, it's I think it's important for
891
01:10:48.619 --> 01:10:51.119
people with a platform, people with,
892
01:10:52.315 --> 01:10:59.135
like, a voice like yourself, Matt, where it's, like, to some extent, like, I think what happened with toxic maximalism,
893
01:10:59.675 --> 01:11:01.980
if you will, on Twitter in particular,
894
01:11:02.520 --> 01:11:04.060
is, like, it stems
895
01:11:04.520 --> 01:11:05.820
from the right place.
896
01:11:06.199 --> 01:11:13.844
It stems from a bunch of intelligent people like yourself, like Tony, like Francis Pollo, like these guys who understood
897
01:11:14.625 --> 01:11:18.805
deeply the ideals behind why privacy and security matter,
898
01:11:20.080 --> 01:11:28.980
and and, like, the security model of Bitcoin. But I think what happened over time is that more and more and more people flooded into, like, the online space.
899
01:11:29.605 --> 01:11:31.785
The kind of message for, like,
900
01:11:32.485 --> 01:11:33.304
an actual
901
01:11:33.765 --> 01:11:34.265
articulated
902
01:11:34.725 --> 01:11:38.505
version of why it's important and, like, what you should do to contribute
903
01:11:39.349 --> 01:11:41.210
just kind of morphed into
904
01:11:42.469 --> 01:11:43.449
less articulate,
905
01:11:43.829 --> 01:11:48.170
and that's where we find ourselves today is this, like, I this ideal set
906
01:11:48.475 --> 01:12:01.050
makes sense, but the way that we're presenting the ideas around it doesn't. It's just a bunch of people yelling at one another and kind of killing off anybody that presents a possible future as a builder in Bitcoin.
907
01:12:01.429 --> 01:12:22.040
And I think it's a detriment to the space and the growth of the space, and that's why I really think the people with the platform and with the voice, it's, like, we need to, like, take that hit and, like, maybe get attacked on Bitcoin Twitter more often to, like, really put out the message that it's like, look, man, this this narrative, the way that we're presenting the narrative is no longer beneficial for the space.
908
01:12:22.795 --> 01:12:28.655
I don't you know, I will push back a little bit on that because I I think it's just inherent to Twitter.
909
01:12:29.114 --> 01:12:30.494
I think Twitter incentivizes
910
01:12:31.034 --> 01:12:32.494
simplicity in the extremes,
911
01:12:34.300 --> 01:12:39.680
And I I would not go as far as saying that Bitcoin Twitter is a detriment.
912
01:12:40.805 --> 01:12:42.745
I think it's a massive net benefit
913
01:12:43.205 --> 01:12:46.105
compared to what we had in the past, particularly because
914
01:12:46.725 --> 01:12:53.520
there is reach among mainstream audiences rather than us just being in the Bitcoin Reddit or IRC or Bitcoin Talk.
915
01:12:55.260 --> 01:12:56.000
I think
916
01:12:56.835 --> 01:12:57.735
I think there's
917
01:12:58.515 --> 01:13:02.295
my favorite word, nuance. There's there's nuance here because,
918
01:13:03.795 --> 01:13:04.195
really
919
01:13:05.260 --> 01:13:10.240
so, like, another example is Rockstar. And Rockstar, Deb, when he came in, like
920
01:13:11.020 --> 01:13:15.375
and and came into the into the space in more of a public way,
921
01:13:16.235 --> 01:13:22.014
he got into a big argument with, I think, specifically Francis and about BTC pay and Litecoin
922
01:13:22.780 --> 01:13:23.280
support.
923
01:13:23.980 --> 01:13:31.920
And I defended Rockstar at the time, and but the thing is is, like I mean, Litecoin's a complete shitcoin, but the thing is is it requires
924
01:13:33.805 --> 01:13:34.865
there are malicious
925
01:13:35.325 --> 01:13:35.825
shitcorners
926
01:13:36.445 --> 01:13:38.705
that do not adequately
927
01:13:39.660 --> 01:13:40.480
or intentionally
928
01:13:41.020 --> 01:13:41.520
ignore
929
01:13:42.060 --> 01:13:43.440
disclosing trade offs,
930
01:13:44.380 --> 01:13:48.400
and do so in an unethical way. And those people need to be called out
931
01:13:48.895 --> 01:13:49.395
strongly,
932
01:13:49.695 --> 01:13:51.315
publicly, and routinely.
933
01:13:52.175 --> 01:13:55.875
There's also Bitcoiners that do that, and they should also be called out.
934
01:13:56.580 --> 01:14:03.800
And then there's there there are people that mean well and are trying their best and, you know, try to stand with, like, a relatively
935
01:14:04.255 --> 01:14:07.554
ethical code and and disclose trade offs here and there. And those people
936
01:14:08.175 --> 01:14:13.875
should be, you know, treated with with a level of respect, and, hopefully, they come and build on Bitcoin.
937
01:14:14.720 --> 01:14:17.620
But for most people, that takes too much critical thinking,
938
01:14:18.000 --> 01:14:20.420
and Twitter is, you know, incentivizes
939
01:14:20.960 --> 01:14:21.940
simple extreme
940
01:14:22.675 --> 01:14:23.175
comments.
941
01:14:24.195 --> 01:14:24.695
So
942
01:14:24.995 --> 01:14:28.535
if you do the odds if you do the odds, if you're an asshole,
943
01:14:30.240 --> 01:14:31.860
if you're if you're an asshole
944
01:14:32.160 --> 01:14:34.020
to the majority of public shitcoiners,
945
01:14:35.920 --> 01:14:37.860
most of them, you know, probably,
946
01:14:39.195 --> 01:14:42.335
I don't want to say deserve it, but probably had it coming.
947
01:14:43.275 --> 01:14:49.730
And it's good. And they'll they'll probably gonna block you right away, which proves the point. Right? Because they don't want any kind of dissenting
948
01:14:50.510 --> 01:14:51.410
opinion there.
949
01:14:53.470 --> 01:14:55.650
And and and there's a lot of gaslighting
950
01:14:55.995 --> 01:15:02.975
on on that side of things. But I I would not I would say Bitcoiners aren't immune to that either. We have a lot of Bitcoin so so called thought leaders,
951
01:15:03.980 --> 01:15:11.199
that basically took the lessons of 2017 and took the wrong lessons from them and thought, you know, the Bitcoin community should be more like a shitcoin community.
952
01:15:12.075 --> 01:15:16.095
Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of nuance there. I think, ultimately, then it's like
953
01:15:17.115 --> 01:15:22.770
it I think the idea of, like, showing respect to the people who will also show respect, it like, that
954
01:15:23.230 --> 01:15:27.010
is maybe perhaps where I think we could try to do,
955
01:15:28.165 --> 01:15:35.145
a little bit better, but ultimately, I think you're right. Like, the the the way that it's just sad because Twitter is one of the largest
956
01:15:35.579 --> 01:15:38.079
platforms, if you will, for kind of voicing
957
01:15:38.860 --> 01:15:39.679
and sharing
958
01:15:40.139 --> 01:15:42.239
the the Bitcoin kind of message.
959
01:15:43.179 --> 01:15:45.655
So having a lot of it get really,
960
01:15:46.114 --> 01:15:58.890
kind of loud and noisy is is somewhat distracting, I think, but it's I maybe it's not a detriment. And then I think, ultimately, it just comes back to what you've already said with, like, how you did what you did in Nashville, which brings us right back to the focus on just, like, being,
961
01:16:00.230 --> 01:16:04.395
intelligent, calm, and collected people in real life and, like, showing the value of the community,
962
01:16:05.015 --> 01:16:09.195
in person in in your home. Yeah. I mean, it's been something that I've noticed
963
01:16:10.550 --> 01:16:14.730
with the podcast, and I've kind of taken it over to my community initiatives,
964
01:16:15.110 --> 01:16:17.050
which is, like, the way this thing scales
965
01:16:18.015 --> 01:16:20.114
is not one person hitting,
966
01:16:22.094 --> 01:16:24.675
10,000,000 people with education or
967
01:16:25.240 --> 01:16:25.740
anything.
968
01:16:26.440 --> 01:16:27.340
It's really
969
01:16:27.880 --> 01:16:29.420
it's it's really individuals
970
01:16:30.520 --> 01:16:37.665
connecting with 10 people, 20 people, a 100 people, and then those people going out and connecting with 10 people, 20 people, a 100 people.
971
01:16:38.205 --> 01:16:39.185
And it's been,
972
01:16:40.205 --> 01:16:42.784
it's it's such a positive and rewarding experience
973
01:16:43.160 --> 01:16:44.460
seeing that in person.
974
01:16:45.880 --> 01:16:47.420
Basically, all these grassroots
975
01:16:48.200 --> 01:16:50.380
communities popping up around the world,
976
01:16:51.975 --> 01:16:56.875
and it's just this domino effect. Right? It's like, you show kindness and respect and
977
01:16:57.575 --> 01:16:58.075
acknowledgment
978
01:16:58.615 --> 01:16:59.115
to
979
01:16:59.800 --> 01:17:05.260
to other people, and then they go and and they repeat that, and then they repeat that. Right?
980
01:17:05.640 --> 01:17:09.885
Yeah. It's it's interesting too. Like, I think I learned it from Marty,
981
01:17:10.344 --> 01:17:13.005
early on, because I was really hard in the paint kinda Bitcoiner
982
01:17:13.385 --> 01:17:14.445
for a long time.
983
01:17:15.225 --> 01:17:15.725
But
984
01:17:16.380 --> 01:17:38.670
I forget what we were talking about one time. Marty had said, like, you know, sometimes you just need to give a soft touch. Right? Where you just well, kinda like what you said, Matt. It's just like you talk about Bitcoin. You let them you inform them. You don't attack them. You attack the idea, and then you send them on their way. And then another Bitcoiner comes along the way and then gives another soft touch. And then it just kinda, you know, trampolines and and and becomes a thing, and they become a Bitcoiner.
985
01:17:39.290 --> 01:17:42.510
I think I think that's the way. I think if we all just give soft touches
986
01:17:43.155 --> 01:17:47.415
and educate and attack the idea, I think that's how we get them to become a Bitcoiner over time.
987
01:17:49.395 --> 01:17:52.215
Yeah. I mean, we I mean, you don't you don't
988
01:17:53.130 --> 01:17:55.390
I I'm I'm strongly of the belief
989
01:17:55.850 --> 01:17:58.510
that we build the education and the tools
990
01:17:59.345 --> 01:18:02.005
to empower individuals. And then when those individuals
991
01:18:02.865 --> 01:18:08.325
finally realize that they have the need, because everyone does have the need for Bitcoin, they just don't realize yet,
992
01:18:08.940 --> 01:18:10.640
They will come and seek them out.
993
01:18:12.060 --> 01:18:12.800
And so
994
01:18:13.980 --> 01:18:14.480
I
995
01:18:14.940 --> 01:18:18.365
I have a love hate relationship with this concept of
996
01:18:19.325 --> 01:18:20.945
of orange peeling specifically.
997
01:18:23.325 --> 01:18:31.369
But because it does have its place when when you see that there's a a moment in time that maybe truly highlights the need for Bitcoin.
998
01:18:31.989 --> 01:18:35.365
But I think most people kinda just come to it on their own,
999
01:18:35.845 --> 01:18:37.945
and, those people are way more susceptible
1000
01:18:40.325 --> 01:18:45.145
to to be in it long term for the right reasons rather than for gambling or
1001
01:18:45.659 --> 01:18:50.320
quick riches. Like, the the the type of people that often are almost forcibly
1002
01:18:50.699 --> 01:19:01.525
orange pilled or aggressively orange pilled or the type of people that usually get wrecked in a bear cycle and disappear for 4 years, maybe come back later. So can I ask you a question, Matt? On, like, the
1003
01:19:02.179 --> 01:19:02.679
conversation
1004
01:19:02.980 --> 01:19:04.760
around that very idea,
1005
01:19:05.460 --> 01:19:09.400
like, what what do you think would be some, like, actionable ideas
1006
01:19:10.020 --> 01:19:10.520
for,
1007
01:19:11.395 --> 01:19:13.094
like, I think I
1008
01:19:13.395 --> 01:19:22.270
think I think you're right. I think it's gonna happen regardless and naturally, and people are going to find more and more that they, like, need Bitcoin, and and I think having
1009
01:19:22.970 --> 01:19:27.310
those tools and resources ready like a pleb lab for those who find they wanna build.
1010
01:19:27.685 --> 01:19:37.430
But beyond just creating the space and then, like, sitting around, what are, like, actionable ideas to help accelerate the growth of more builders in this space?
1011
01:19:39.750 --> 01:19:42.710
Well, I mean, with builders specifically, I think it's,
1012
01:19:43.830 --> 01:19:45.450
it's a slightly different
1013
01:19:45.910 --> 01:19:46.410
scenario
1014
01:19:47.075 --> 01:19:48.375
than, like, an average
1015
01:19:48.675 --> 01:19:49.815
Bitcoin user.
1016
01:19:51.555 --> 01:19:54.035
And and and that scenario is mostly
1017
01:19:56.980 --> 01:20:05.240
like, they're obviously already intending to build or or building in somewhere else. Right? And that's making it clear that there's an opportunity,
1018
01:20:06.875 --> 01:20:12.575
for them to work on something that maybe is significantly more meaningful than they're currently working on, but also,
1019
01:20:13.410 --> 01:20:18.210
that they could be very successful doing. Right? It's just it's it's a different demo than
1020
01:20:20.635 --> 01:20:24.014
like, let's let's be honest. Right? Like, if if we're in a hybrid Bitcoinization
1021
01:20:24.795 --> 01:20:25.295
scenario,
1022
01:20:25.994 --> 01:20:28.175
and we have 8,000,000,000 people using Bitcoin,
1023
01:20:30.050 --> 01:20:31.190
technicals aside,
1024
01:20:32.690 --> 01:20:35.910
like, what percent of those are actually gonna be builders?
1025
01:20:36.215 --> 01:20:39.594
And that's probably gonna be significantly less than a half a percent.
1026
01:20:40.934 --> 01:20:44.215
So so it's a very niche demo that that has
1027
01:20:45.030 --> 01:20:45.930
you have to have a specific
1028
01:20:46.710 --> 01:20:47.450
kind of
1029
01:20:48.390 --> 01:20:48.890
support
1030
01:20:49.350 --> 01:20:51.610
situation for those people. Right?
1031
01:20:54.105 --> 01:20:59.244
Yeah. And, I mean, again, that's kind of it it's what we're trying to do at Puebloam,
1032
01:21:00.025 --> 01:21:01.405
and and perhaps
1033
01:21:01.840 --> 01:21:11.380
road mapped out for Bitcoin Park and the other places springing up around the world, like, looking to create a a space and access to resources for
1034
01:21:11.825 --> 01:21:12.565
those technical folks.
1035
01:21:13.265 --> 01:21:18.805
It's just interesting because it's kind of like a almost like a chicken and an egg thing, right, where you're, like, talking about what percentage
1036
01:21:19.460 --> 01:21:24.520
will be builders when we're in a hyper Bitcoinized world with 8,000,000,000 people on Bitcoin.
1037
01:21:25.060 --> 01:21:32.185
But at the same time, it's, like, we don't get to an 8 1,000,000,000 people hyper Bitcoinized world without more builders before we get there.
1038
01:21:34.085 --> 01:21:35.065
Yeah. A 100%.
1039
01:21:36.469 --> 01:21:43.130
We had Tony in the comments saying, I'm biased, but builders need stats. They already have talent, conviction, motivation, etcetera.
1040
01:21:43.675 --> 01:21:44.895
I agree with that.
1041
01:21:46.075 --> 01:21:47.295
Part of the reason why
1042
01:21:48.955 --> 01:21:51.935
I helped build, 1031 and Open Sats,
1043
01:21:53.250 --> 01:21:56.950
Two different sides of the same coin, really. It was just getting funding to builders.
1044
01:21:58.770 --> 01:22:02.450
I'm curious. I mean, you guys through you I guess, it was a partnership,
1045
01:22:09.815 --> 01:22:14.630
what were the takeaways on that? What was it called? BTC plus plus? What were the takeaways on that? What was it called? BTC plus plus?
1046
01:22:16.210 --> 01:22:23.405
Yeah. It was a Bitcoin plus plus. I I think the I think the takeaways we learned was that I think people are tired of these regular conferences.
1047
01:22:24.105 --> 01:22:27.405
It needs to be, like, kind of like where it has both ends of the spectrum.
1048
01:22:28.230 --> 01:22:34.250
Kinda what you guys did in in Miami where it has, like, the open source part, but it also has the the other panel part.
1049
01:22:34.949 --> 01:22:37.130
I I think there there's a need for
1050
01:22:37.745 --> 01:22:38.885
education focused
1051
01:22:40.065 --> 01:22:46.170
Bitcoin conferences, and I think we're gonna see that trend in 2023 for sure. I think there's gonna be a lot more.
1052
01:22:46.650 --> 01:22:47.210
I know,
1053
01:22:47.690 --> 01:22:50.190
Nifty and the team at Base 58 are throwing the one New Mexico
1054
01:22:50.810 --> 01:23:04.260
City here in December, so definitely go check that out. And then at some point next year, she's gonna throw the Bitcoin plus plus again. So yeah. It's Yeah. And, of course, we have we have tab comp that just happened. I think there's also
1055
01:23:05.360 --> 01:23:11.465
not just, like, on the builder side, but just in general I mean, as Bitcoin grows, there's still gonna be
1056
01:23:12.245 --> 01:23:14.824
a place for these large, you know, 25,000
1057
01:23:15.125 --> 01:23:16.905
person festival type events.
1058
01:23:17.880 --> 01:23:19.260
But I think there's increasingly,
1059
01:23:21.000 --> 01:23:21.500
desire
1060
01:23:21.800 --> 01:23:22.300
and
1061
01:23:23.560 --> 01:23:32.975
and and and very and they end up being very productive, these these smaller high signal events. And, obviously, you guys have been focused on that. We've been focused on that at Bitcoin Park.
1062
01:23:34.155 --> 01:23:37.000
Parker and team have been on that over at the comments.
1063
01:23:37.620 --> 01:23:40.600
But I think we see more and more high signal smaller
1064
01:23:41.219 --> 01:23:41.719
events,
1065
01:23:42.739 --> 01:23:44.280
where people can have, like,
1066
01:23:45.215 --> 01:23:55.390
unbridled discussion with with with other peers. Right? Like, actually off the record conversations. So many so many of our conversations nowadays are on the record and essentially public.
1067
01:23:56.330 --> 01:23:57.550
And I know I say that
1068
01:23:57.850 --> 01:23:58.510
on air,
1069
01:23:59.130 --> 01:24:02.695
but it's great to have it's great to have a place where you can actually
1070
01:24:03.635 --> 01:24:04.454
talk without
1071
01:24:06.034 --> 01:24:12.660
necessarily the pressure of of of a a surveillance state and the pressure of, public eye.
1072
01:24:13.920 --> 01:24:15.060
Yeah. That actually,
1073
01:24:15.520 --> 01:24:19.875
like, just bringing it back to to PlaidLab. Like, that was one of the things that I really enjoyed
1074
01:24:20.175 --> 01:24:27.360
when I first got in there was just the discussions that we had among, you know, people that were in there from various different topics.
1075
01:24:28.060 --> 01:24:30.000
You know, sitting in the same room as,
1076
01:24:30.620 --> 01:24:31.200
you know,
1077
01:24:31.955 --> 01:24:34.855
Tony and and Paul from Voltage and Supertestnet
1078
01:24:35.235 --> 01:24:41.095
and, you know, everybody else in there with just, like, so many different skill sets and and experiences.
1079
01:24:42.740 --> 01:24:44.360
You know, being able to have those
1080
01:24:44.740 --> 01:24:45.960
kinda candid discussions,
1081
01:24:46.260 --> 01:24:51.795
especially for a newbie who was just kinda, like, figure his way out in this whole, like, Bitcoin,
1082
01:24:52.095 --> 01:24:52.915
like, space,
1083
01:24:54.015 --> 01:25:03.520
it was was huge. It was, like, it was fundamental to to my early growth anyway as a founder and as a as a Bitcoiner who was, you know, in the background for a long time,
1084
01:25:04.080 --> 01:25:14.935
and then trying to kinda, like, step in, but trying to ask questions and have conversations that, you know, could be had, like, off air in a in a face to face environment is is is critical.
1085
01:25:15.490 --> 01:25:17.990
I I think just to touch on that too, it's
1086
01:25:18.370 --> 01:25:20.550
just getting a little bit personal is, like,
1087
01:25:21.170 --> 01:25:24.775
it's been great to watch and see the growth of of companies
1088
01:25:25.155 --> 01:25:29.575
and, of, like, all of that. I mean, that's kind of the business we're selling.
1089
01:25:29.940 --> 01:25:36.280
But I think my favorite part about everything that we have here and everything that we've done here has just been to watch and
1090
01:25:36.980 --> 01:25:38.199
see the tremendous
1091
01:25:38.500 --> 01:25:39.559
personal growth,
1092
01:25:40.485 --> 01:25:44.585
of the people in this community. And I and I know for me personally, it's really
1093
01:25:45.205 --> 01:25:55.849
inspired a lot of my own personal growth. It's I've seen so much change in the community around me from from Carr and what he learned with you guys over at TFTC and RHR and
1094
01:25:56.405 --> 01:26:08.380
just all of it. Just it's it's been really tremendous to grow as, like, a family and to watch how we've all come up in in not only the space, but just in our own kind of growth personally, it's been great.
1095
01:26:08.840 --> 01:26:13.505
Yeah. It does really feel more like a family than an industry, at least in our little microcosm.
1096
01:26:14.045 --> 01:26:15.665
Yeah. I I was just having
1097
01:26:16.205 --> 01:26:34.054
a coffee with somebody, over the this past weekend or maybe this weekend before, and we're kinda talking about that. And and, man, that that's, like, for me, the biggest thing, Matt. And, you know, like, I really care about the people around me, and I really want them to succeed. And, like, for me, that's that's all that really matters. I know that's kind of like
1098
01:26:34.514 --> 01:26:47.329
a a weird concept to imagine. The bear market it's the bear market cliche, like, the real gains of the friends we made along the way. Yeah. And me and Paul have talked about it. We're gonna record a pod at some point to talk about it more, but,
1099
01:26:47.965 --> 01:27:07.495
like, it it really is like, the Bitcoin price and all that stuff is there and it's in the back of your head, but it's it's not the motivator for me anymore like it used to be, in the early days. It's definitely the people and the impact that I could have in a positive way in their lives. I think that's the thing that really gets me up in the morning. You know? I know it does that for you too, Matt.
1100
01:27:08.435 --> 01:27:08.935
So
1101
01:27:09.475 --> 01:27:11.975
Damn right. I also wanna get wealthy,
1102
01:27:13.790 --> 01:27:15.650
but that keeps me going.
1103
01:27:16.270 --> 01:27:18.690
The cool part about Bitcoin is that that's aligned.
1104
01:27:19.710 --> 01:27:20.210
Yeah.
1105
01:27:21.835 --> 01:27:32.620
And we go Also also to talk about that conference in in Europe at the Bitcoin Magazine tour. Somebody came in yesterday. I won't I won't talk to them, but they had nothing but great things to say about the European conference. Like, they were just, like, ecstatic
1106
01:27:33.239 --> 01:27:37.660
about it. So The cool part about that one was that it was mostly Europeans.
1107
01:27:38.400 --> 01:27:50.655
It was mostly faces I hadn't seen. I spoke to freaks and people that I follow on Twitter and stuff that I just never met before. A lot of local Dutch people. The Dutch community was extremely strong.
1108
01:27:51.660 --> 01:28:01.505
That was the coolest part to me. I just love Amsterdam as a city. Yeah. I'm like, oh, I wanted to go so bad, but it was like, I had to choose. Like, that was the biggest thing. Yeah. I mean, it's
1109
01:28:02.865 --> 01:28:07.430
the the dark the darkness surrounding it is that it was at the same time as Tab comp.
1110
01:28:07.910 --> 01:28:12.170
But it was with an Amsterdam partner, and they were gonna throw the event regardless,
1111
01:28:12.950 --> 01:28:14.890
and those dates were locked in. So,
1112
01:28:15.775 --> 01:28:18.975
but, yeah, I was really disappointed not to go to TabConf, and,
1113
01:28:20.575 --> 01:28:21.315
that obviously
1114
01:28:22.310 --> 01:28:24.810
personally bothered me. I reached out to Tidwell individually,
1115
01:28:26.070 --> 01:28:28.250
before the information was out there publicly.
1116
01:28:28.710 --> 01:28:30.870
Tried to support him as much as I could, but,
1117
01:28:31.495 --> 01:28:32.795
that's always be
1118
01:28:33.175 --> 01:28:38.475
a a a dark spot on that event to me. But, the highlight by far was that we had so many
1119
01:28:38.870 --> 01:28:40.650
so many locals that came out,
1120
01:28:41.590 --> 01:28:44.790
that have never been to any of the American events, and,
1121
01:28:45.430 --> 01:28:54.045
that was awesome. And, also, it was a smaller event. It was a smaller event than the Miami event, and it goes back to what we were saying earlier. There was a workshop stage that was very intimate,
1122
01:28:54.680 --> 01:29:01.340
that was focused on helping people build in the space. BTC Pay gave a great presentation. Ivex gave a great presentation there.
1123
01:29:02.845 --> 01:29:07.985
So definitely wanna see more of that, and I think the team at Bitcoin Magazine is very much aligned in that regard.
1124
01:29:09.165 --> 01:29:12.880
So, I mean, I want to go off of what Carr said.
1125
01:29:13.900 --> 01:29:17.600
You know, a common meme in the space is that bear markets are for builders.
1126
01:29:18.540 --> 01:29:20.480
How do you guys feel about that meme?
1127
01:29:22.324 --> 01:29:23.545
I think it's true.
1128
01:29:24.644 --> 01:29:26.644
So it's it's interesting because, like,
1129
01:29:26.965 --> 01:29:39.125
just like talking with normies, like, the the occasional Uber ride or or wherever I may be. And when I talk about the fact that I own a Bitcoin company, it's it's very common to be like, oh, that must be rough right now.
1130
01:29:39.585 --> 01:29:46.170
And I've kind of had this pretty quick response most of the time where it's like, actually not. It's been pretty good for business, like,
1131
01:29:47.030 --> 01:29:51.690
because I think one of the things that at least with what we're doing that we've found is that, like,
1132
01:29:52.045 --> 01:29:55.105
it's actually a lot easier to find good talent,
1133
01:29:56.925 --> 01:30:07.120
in that in that bear market because there's so much less noise. And when money is not, like, sloshing around and frothy and everybody has access to it, you tend to find
1134
01:30:07.695 --> 01:30:14.594
exactly what we are looking for, and what we tend to look for is disciplined leadership and a dedicated team.
1135
01:30:15.320 --> 01:30:15.820
And,
1136
01:30:16.360 --> 01:30:18.699
those two things are really easy to find
1137
01:30:19.559 --> 01:30:30.375
when it's a bear market because, like, there's no money, and they're still sitting there grinding it out day in and day out with a passion. So I think I think it's true. I think it seems to be, like, an accurate statement.
1138
01:30:32.170 --> 01:30:40.485
Yeah. I mean, personally, I I definitely agree with that because I just know from my own experience that that's exactly what I'm doing with at Saffright.
1139
01:30:41.585 --> 01:30:47.765
You know, it's been the last few months of just been, you know, head down, grinding hard, like, trying to get a lot of work done.
1140
01:30:49.880 --> 01:30:51.099
And, you know, that's
1141
01:30:51.880 --> 01:31:05.085
there's probably a lot of companies that are going through tough times right now. I mean, we know that in the mining space for sure, but there's probably other big coin companies as well. I mean, I I guess I was lucky enough and that I managed to to raise a small pre seed round, like, just before the kinda
1142
01:31:05.400 --> 01:31:10.940
deep bear market set in. So, you know, it it gave me that runway to, like, to to start building,
1143
01:31:11.240 --> 01:31:13.795
but I I see it everywhere. I certainly see it a lot
1144
01:31:16.355 --> 01:31:17.815
from a lot of the other founders in PlubLab. They're doing the same thing.
1145
01:31:18.435 --> 01:31:22.349
And one thing I wanted to touch on as well is that, you know, you
1146
01:31:22.730 --> 01:31:25.790
Matt, you mentioned, like, Michael Atwood from Oshi earlier.
1147
01:31:27.290 --> 01:31:28.910
You know, one of the things that,
1148
01:31:29.395 --> 01:31:35.574
you know, I talk a lot to Michael about, and I know he's super passionate about, is just that, like, the interfounder
1149
01:31:36.910 --> 01:31:38.370
collaboration as well.
1150
01:31:39.390 --> 01:32:05.965
I mean, I don't know if this is, like, a normal thing in in founder worlds in, like, you know, Fintech or or any other, like, you know, industry that that goes on. But we we just tend to talk a lot about how we can actually help each other's company. How we can actually, like, you know, collaborate and build together and build tools that one person can use. And, oh, you need this? Well, maybe if I build it into my platform, we can link together, and then we can, like, give your users this added benefit and this experience.
1151
01:32:06.344 --> 01:32:10.284
And there's a lot of collaboration between us to try and figure out how we can
1152
01:32:10.640 --> 01:32:13.060
streamline and optimize our work,
1153
01:32:14.400 --> 01:32:24.455
you know, particularly so that we're not, like, repeating things and and doing the same things over and over. If one founder can do one thing to help another founder, like, we always do it, and we have a lot of those conversations.
1154
01:32:25.395 --> 01:32:27.495
So that's one thing that that I noticed,
1155
01:32:28.220 --> 01:32:33.180
within it as well, which I I just thought was was really curious to me being a first time founder, but I think it's,
1156
01:32:33.980 --> 01:32:36.320
it's huge, and and I love that aspect of it.
1157
01:32:36.655 --> 01:32:38.755
Yeah. I mean, I got to notice that in person.
1158
01:32:39.855 --> 01:32:40.595
We had,
1159
01:32:43.215 --> 01:32:47.460
our venture fund 1031, we hosted all of our founding teams,
1160
01:32:49.680 --> 01:32:52.640
for a private retreat where they can collaborate. And,
1161
01:32:53.925 --> 01:32:54.745
in the van,
1162
01:32:55.045 --> 01:33:00.825
John and Michael were sitting behind me, and they wouldn't shut up about collaborating on different things,
1163
01:33:02.060 --> 01:33:04.060
which was great to see. You just want to,
1164
01:33:05.500 --> 01:33:13.095
you you wanna see as as much collaboration as possible because a rising tide lifts all lifts all boats here in the in the Bitcoin space.
1165
01:33:13.795 --> 01:33:16.215
I would just add on the the bear market.
1166
01:33:16.595 --> 01:33:18.455
Bear markets are for builders thing.
1167
01:33:19.075 --> 01:33:22.739
You know, if you look back, most of the successful companies
1168
01:33:23.199 --> 01:33:26.739
have, you know, either grown in a bear market
1169
01:33:27.455 --> 01:33:31.554
or were straight up launched in a bear market. But I would say
1170
01:33:31.935 --> 01:33:33.715
that it's a little bit of
1171
01:33:34.094 --> 01:33:35.235
selection bias
1172
01:33:35.790 --> 01:33:37.170
because bear markets
1173
01:33:37.869 --> 01:33:38.369
destroy
1174
01:33:38.670 --> 01:33:40.050
the majority of builders.
1175
01:33:41.630 --> 01:33:46.655
And Bitcoin as it is is a survival of the fittest kind of game, and it really
1176
01:33:47.135 --> 01:33:50.755
that the bear markets are when people realize why it's survival of the fittest.
1177
01:33:51.295 --> 01:33:58.670
So the builders that survive a bear market and keep moving forward and keep putting one foot in front of the other and and don't stop,
1178
01:33:59.690 --> 01:34:05.095
usually see massive success. We just don't see the ones that that the many that don't do that.
1179
01:34:05.635 --> 01:34:06.695
Discipline leadership,
1180
01:34:07.235 --> 01:34:08.375
dedicated teams.
1181
01:34:08.915 --> 01:34:10.375
And, and also,
1182
01:34:11.235 --> 01:34:11.735
Matt,
1183
01:34:12.610 --> 01:34:13.830
the the
1184
01:34:14.450 --> 01:34:18.790
the retreat you guys threw sounded pretty epic. So Grant, Jonathan,
1185
01:34:19.090 --> 01:34:23.005
the rest of you guys, look looking forward to participating in the next one.
1186
01:34:25.864 --> 01:34:29.030
You've never been the most subtle person, Kyle. I
1187
01:34:29.489 --> 01:34:30.150
I try.
1188
01:34:31.730 --> 01:34:32.789
Yeah. I mean, that's
1189
01:34:33.090 --> 01:34:34.070
that kind of,
1190
01:34:34.449 --> 01:34:35.510
just really quickly,
1191
01:34:36.435 --> 01:34:41.095
it was something that I think it kinda just brings up a couple of points. I mean, Matt, you mentioned earlier about,
1192
01:34:41.475 --> 01:34:44.055
you know, when we're talking about conferences and,
1193
01:34:44.570 --> 01:34:55.295
you know, there is a place for the bigger public events, but sometimes the smaller high signal events are, you know, are where, you know, a lot of stuff gets, discussed and and progress gets made.
1194
01:34:55.755 --> 01:34:59.705
That event, 1031 event you're talking about was definitely one of those.
1195
01:35:00.960 --> 01:35:08.500
But I just wanted to mention quickly as well is that, you know, seeing as we're talking about the the builder builder mentality in in in the bear market,
1196
01:35:09.475 --> 01:35:24.040
I think a lot of that wouldn't happen without folks like yourself on 1031 as well, who have that, you know, Bitcoin only ethos and and have that low time preference support for bitcoin vendors. So I definitely just wanted to mention that and say I, on a personal level,
1197
01:35:24.980 --> 01:35:26.120
you know, absolutely,
1198
01:35:26.785 --> 01:35:35.364
like, stoked that there are funds like that available for for founders like myself who who have that same ethos and and will, under
1199
01:35:35.770 --> 01:35:39.630
no circumstance talk to any shitcoin VC or Fiat VC.
1200
01:35:40.570 --> 01:35:43.550
And that makes it really hard when you're trying to raise money.
1201
01:35:44.245 --> 01:35:51.545
Like, there's no way in hell I'm gonna have Zap rights logo on a on a VC portfolio page besides some, like, defi shitcoin program.
1202
01:35:53.550 --> 01:36:02.264
So, you know, having having you guys there and and there's there's plenty of others. I think I think Vivek or or somebody else put out a thread, actually, the other day about Bitcoin only,
1203
01:36:02.645 --> 01:36:03.465
like, VCs.
1204
01:36:04.565 --> 01:36:14.280
And there was a good, like, 15, 20, or or more that kept getting added in the thread. And, like, it it's amazing to see. It's great. And it like, you know, talking about their market build is like that wouldn't happen without,
1205
01:36:14.820 --> 01:36:18.969
you know, 1031 and other Bitcoin only funds. So it's certainly Well
1206
01:36:19.469 --> 01:36:24.915
was. I just I appreciate that, and I appreciate you. And it's been great to see
1207
01:36:25.855 --> 01:36:29.810
a lot of growth in that space. And it's also why I launched OpenSats,
1208
01:36:32.030 --> 01:36:33.730
for tax deductible no
1209
01:36:35.630 --> 01:36:43.745
tax deductible no fee grants to open source contributors, no strings attached. Also 1031, we also do open source grants with no strings attached.
1210
01:36:44.360 --> 01:36:46.460
So just more funding in the space is great.
1211
01:36:47.400 --> 01:36:49.160
I I do think it's,
1212
01:36:49.719 --> 01:36:50.780
also gonna be,
1213
01:36:52.565 --> 01:36:56.905
could be a long bear market for a lot of a lot of those funds as well.
1214
01:36:57.845 --> 01:37:02.570
But I I hope to see many of them succeed alongside us. What were you saying, Kyle?
1215
01:37:03.110 --> 01:37:11.745
No. I was just saying I I I jest, but to touch on the same thing that John was already touching on, it's it's great to see the growth of it. But,
1216
01:37:12.205 --> 01:37:20.840
like, the the guys like Grant and Jonathan, I've had several conversations back and forth with them. And I I told Grant myself personally many a times, I think,
1217
01:37:21.220 --> 01:37:21.720
is,
1218
01:37:22.455 --> 01:37:23.195
like, outlines
1219
01:37:23.655 --> 01:37:34.560
in his investment thesis that have that have been put out in the public many times over, they they resonate so closely with the way that we kind of view things here at PubLab, and I think,
1220
01:37:35.179 --> 01:37:39.199
it's it's just really cool to see that the the the kind of
1221
01:37:39.575 --> 01:37:44.875
focus on and the understanding of where this thing seems to be trending. It's, like, so,
1222
01:37:45.735 --> 01:37:50.900
it seems to be very unifying in, like, a in, like, a direction, and I think that's that's great because,
1223
01:37:51.760 --> 01:37:57.940
the more focused we can get in that direction unified together, I think the more powerful we'll be.
1224
01:38:02.255 --> 01:38:02.755
100%.
1225
01:38:03.535 --> 01:38:05.055
So, boys, we're at,
1226
01:38:05.455 --> 01:38:07.235
the hour 40 minute mark.
1227
01:38:09.670 --> 01:38:15.675
I wanna reiterate that, this was a conversation a long time in the making, and I expect that it's
1228
01:38:15.994 --> 01:38:17.534
just the start of many conversations.
1229
01:38:19.915 --> 01:38:29.630
So we don't have to feel like we've gotten everything in here. But I I think it's been a pretty fantastic conversation. I hope the freaks have enjoyed it. Do you have anything else you guys wanna touch on before we wrap it?
1230
01:38:30.330 --> 01:38:32.590
Just the kitchen that Elon brought?
1231
01:38:35.285 --> 01:38:36.185
One thing that,
1232
01:38:36.805 --> 01:38:40.025
one thing that I always like to to finish up conversations on,
1233
01:38:41.250 --> 01:38:46.230
because it's just been so important to me, and I mentioned it at at UTU recently as well,
1234
01:38:47.489 --> 01:38:51.735
is just is just really if you're any kind of a Bitcoin
1235
01:38:52.035 --> 01:38:56.135
founder or or pleb that just wants to kinda get involved in any way,
1236
01:38:57.080 --> 01:39:12.054
Like, the like, Bitcoin Twitter's great. All these online communities are great, but the only real way to to, like, move forward and make meaningful progress is, like, just getting in amongst it in the Bitcoin community face to face, going to meetups, going to conferences, going to events, hackathons, workshops,
1237
01:39:13.450 --> 01:39:23.625
and just, like, you know, walking into places like Pleb Lab and saying, hey. I'm a Bitcoiner. Can I just park here for a day and work and have some conversations? And you never know what might come out of it.
1238
01:39:24.644 --> 01:39:41.335
So massive fan of the community building aspect of of what PlubLab is doing and just encourage a lot more people to to really take advantage of that. If it's not available somewhere close to you, then start it up. Make it available. It's it's easy to do. There's a road map for it,
1239
01:39:41.815 --> 01:39:43.275
and it it it provides
1240
01:39:43.655 --> 01:39:44.875
immense benefits,
1241
01:39:45.414 --> 01:39:46.474
to to everybody.
1242
01:39:46.780 --> 01:39:50.000
So, definitely a fan of the in person community meetings.
1243
01:39:50.700 --> 01:39:54.560
100% to that. Thank you, John. Kyle, final thoughts.
1244
01:39:55.505 --> 01:40:09.030
Yeah. I mean, it's very similar to what John just said, but maybe from the other side, and and it's something that, our attorney said at TabConf. I think, my final thoughts would be if you're out there, if you're a builder, if you're entrepreneurially
1245
01:40:09.570 --> 01:40:23.730
inclined, you're thinking about trying to start a start up, it there's never been a better time to go out and do that. Whether it be Pleb Lab or the growing number of people focused on the acceleration of Bitcoin startups.
1246
01:40:24.270 --> 01:40:24.770
There's
1247
01:40:25.790 --> 01:40:35.804
so many resources out there, and there are so many people who want to help you along your journey. So if if you're thinking about it, I would say my final thought is just go do it.
1248
01:40:37.360 --> 01:40:39.780
Love it. Thanks, Kyle. Final thoughts, Carr.
1249
01:40:40.240 --> 01:40:41.600
Yeah. I would I would just say,
1250
01:40:42.320 --> 01:40:47.695
if you're if you're a Bitcoiner that has any skill set whatsoever and you're looking to get plugged in,
1251
01:40:48.235 --> 01:40:51.195
come to PlugLab, come to Bitcoin Park, come to these places, and,
1252
01:40:51.810 --> 01:41:10.054
you know, you'll get connected, and you can use that as a as a springboard, as a platform to really get your name out there. I see BTC retriever in the comments. He says, much love to the pubs at ClubLab. He's somebody that we've helped, you know, just through the the thing that we built here. And then, also, I got a fun fact for you, Matt. You ready for this? I love fun facts.
1253
01:41:10.670 --> 01:41:12.050
It's, Noster November.
1254
01:41:12.990 --> 01:41:17.550
Noster November. But I you're not practicing it. Yes. I am. I'm,
1255
01:41:18.030 --> 01:41:18.770
off Twitter.
1256
01:41:19.105 --> 01:41:20.725
I'm on Thomas and Enigma.
1257
01:41:21.265 --> 01:41:25.205
Let's go. Thought I saw you I thought so thought I saw you tweet it.
1258
01:41:26.200 --> 01:41:36.135
Yeah. I tweeted it, I think the day before on 31st. So, anyways, we're we're we're wanna explain what Monster November is. Yeah. Nostra November is a thing that was created by jb55.
1259
01:41:37.075 --> 01:41:41.335
He made the domicem. A lot of us here inside ClubLab were super excited about Nostra.
1260
01:41:42.510 --> 01:41:44.590
We got some guys trying to kill it and attack it.
1261
01:41:46.350 --> 01:41:53.665
There's other guys that are trying to build on it. It's a it's a lot of fun, and it's gonna be really interesting to see if we can really make Nostra take off here,
1262
01:41:54.284 --> 01:42:02.050
and help it grow much faster if we all stay on Nostra for the whole whole November. So yeah. Well, we love Noster here at dispatch.
1263
01:42:02.989 --> 01:42:08.925
To the freaks who may have just recently joined us, there's a great conversation, episode 63,
1264
01:42:10.264 --> 01:42:14.925
with both Fiat Jaf and JB 55, 2 of the main guys behind Noster.
1265
01:42:15.545 --> 01:42:17.485
So definitely go check that out.
1266
01:42:19.050 --> 01:42:20.750
I want to thank
1267
01:42:21.690 --> 01:42:25.310
Car, Kyle, and John, our wonderful guests, for joining us again.
1268
01:42:26.055 --> 01:42:27.195
I want to thank
1269
01:42:27.655 --> 01:42:32.075
all the freaks who continue to support the show, whether that's joining in the live chat,
1270
01:42:32.455 --> 01:42:38.130
joining in the constant matrix chat, supporting the show through streaming sets, whether that's on fountain,
1271
01:42:39.070 --> 01:42:42.690
Breeze, or one of the other podcasting 2.0 apps,
1272
01:42:43.005 --> 01:42:47.105
or supporting through a BTC pay server. And once again, supporting by sharing
1273
01:42:48.045 --> 01:42:53.420
sharing the show, sharing dispatch with your friends and family, subscribing on your favorite platform.
1274
01:42:54.280 --> 01:42:56.940
I really do appreciate it. You guys keep me going.
1275
01:42:57.400 --> 01:43:03.295
I have great shows lined up, really great conversations lined up for dispatch in the coming weeks,
1276
01:43:05.275 --> 01:43:08.510
including one with Barack over the most recent LND bug.
1277
01:43:09.070 --> 01:43:10.909
So it should be a fun time, and,
1278
01:43:12.349 --> 01:43:22.405
don't let anyone tell you that, dispatch is dying or value for value doesn't work. We're gonna prove them wrong. So So I love you all. Stay humble, Stack Sats. Peace. Thanks for having us, dude.
1279
01:43:23.505 --> 01:43:24.244
Thank you.
1280
01:43:24.625 --> 01:43:25.125
Thanks.
NOTE
Transcription provided by Podhome.fm
Created: 3/17/2024 4:22:14 PM
Duration: 6205.466
Channels: 1
1
00:00:33.000 --> 00:00:39.500
2
00:00:40.280 --> 00:00:41.660
I know it's been a month.
3
00:00:42.485 --> 00:00:46.985
I hope you've been enjoying the other content, the external content I've been posting to the feed.
4
00:00:48.085 --> 00:00:50.504
There's a lot of great conversations in there.
5
00:00:50.829 --> 00:00:56.690
I've been quietly working behind the scenes on a bunch of different projects. I haven't forgotten about you all. I was hoping
6
00:00:57.629 --> 00:00:59.809
that we were gonna get to do.
7
00:01:00.495 --> 00:01:04.195
I I was I was kind of holding out wanting to do more in person,
8
00:01:04.975 --> 00:01:08.035
RIPS in our new studio in Nashville at Bitcoin Park,
9
00:01:08.520 --> 00:01:10.460
We've been dealing with some family things.
10
00:01:11.320 --> 00:01:15.260
All is good on that front. It should be back in Nashville sometime soon.
11
00:01:16.585 --> 00:01:17.564
But in the meantime,
12
00:01:17.865 --> 00:01:19.325
we're gonna rip some remote
13
00:01:19.625 --> 00:01:20.685
remote conversations
14
00:01:21.064 --> 00:01:24.125
to keep it going and because I missed you all.
15
00:01:24.800 --> 00:01:26.420
With all that said, Dispatch,
16
00:01:27.280 --> 00:01:31.060
as you freaks know, is a show focused on actionable discussion.
17
00:01:31.520 --> 00:01:32.820
It is a live show
18
00:01:33.165 --> 00:01:43.950
with active chat participation. I appreciate all the freaks who joined the chat. It's also an ad free, sponsor free value for value show that's a 100% funded by the audience.
19
00:01:44.890 --> 00:01:54.005
There's a lot of haters out there right now that say audience funding cannot work, that the ad model is the only way to go. I appreciate you all helping to prove them wrong.
20
00:01:54.785 --> 00:02:00.430
The amount of support I get from you freaks is truly incredible. It is really cool seeing the sats
21
00:02:00.890 --> 00:02:05.150
flow directly into my lightning node. Easiest way to support the show
22
00:02:05.744 --> 00:02:09.605
is through podcasting 2 point o apps, such as Fountain Podcasts,
23
00:02:10.145 --> 00:02:10.645
Breezewallet,
24
00:02:12.145 --> 00:02:12.645
echoln.com,
25
00:02:13.825 --> 00:02:14.644
and Podverse
26
00:02:15.540 --> 00:02:16.040
dotfm.
27
00:02:16.660 --> 00:02:17.400
You simply
28
00:02:18.020 --> 00:02:26.535
load the app up with some sats, search Zillow Dispatch in the app, press subscribe, choose how many SATs per minute you think the show is worth,
29
00:02:27.075 --> 00:02:27.575
and
30
00:02:28.115 --> 00:02:29.175
it will automatically
31
00:02:30.120 --> 00:02:32.860
send those stats directly to my note as you listen.
32
00:02:33.240 --> 00:02:35.340
There's also a feature called boostograms.
33
00:02:36.280 --> 00:02:36.780
Boostograms
34
00:02:37.595 --> 00:02:40.974
allow you to attach a message to a single payment.
35
00:02:41.595 --> 00:02:44.175
Basically, you can think of it as a
36
00:02:45.770 --> 00:02:47.230
global message board
37
00:02:47.530 --> 00:02:48.510
comment section,
38
00:02:49.130 --> 00:02:50.510
with payments included.
39
00:02:50.890 --> 00:02:52.350
It's great to see the freaks,
40
00:02:53.415 --> 00:02:54.935
supporting that way as well. I'm able to,
41
00:02:56.375 --> 00:03:01.115
all of us are able to read them, but I do read the top 4 from the previous episode.
42
00:03:01.415 --> 00:03:08.930
Since dispatch hasn't gone for a month, I will be reading multiple of them in a second. But before I get there, you can also support
43
00:03:09.870 --> 00:03:10.370
by
44
00:03:10.715 --> 00:03:15.455
going to cildispatch.com. I have a BTC pay server there. You can support using
45
00:03:15.835 --> 00:03:17.135
on chain or lightning.
46
00:03:17.435 --> 00:03:18.095
I have
47
00:03:18.395 --> 00:03:19.375
a BIP 47
48
00:03:20.590 --> 00:03:25.730
reusable payment code and a pay name attached to that. That pay name is Odell. All of this is listed at sidildispatch.com.
49
00:03:27.310 --> 00:03:31.995
And I know it is a bear market. If you do not have sets to support the show,
50
00:03:32.535 --> 00:03:38.240
you can obviously support dispatch by sharing with your friends and family or subscribing in your favorite podcast app,
51
00:03:38.640 --> 00:03:40.500
YouTube, Twitch, Twitter.
52
00:03:41.360 --> 00:03:48.334
It's on it's on all the platforms, Rumble, Bitcoin TV. Just search it all dispatch. Share with your friends and family. It is appreciated.
53
00:03:49.115 --> 00:03:49.615
Okay.
54
00:03:50.075 --> 00:03:53.855
I actually nailed that pretty good considering we haven't done this in a month.
55
00:03:54.155 --> 00:03:55.455
I am going to read
56
00:03:56.400 --> 00:03:57.540
select boostograms
57
00:03:58.080 --> 00:04:01.280
from the freaks. We had CD 77 was,
58
00:04:01.680 --> 00:04:03.380
an awesome dispatch conversation,
59
00:04:04.925 --> 00:04:07.985
that was focused on silent link. We have Eric 99,
60
00:04:08.364 --> 00:04:12.864
contributed 50,000 sats. He said, stay humble and stack sats. Really great advice, Eric.
61
00:04:13.269 --> 00:04:18.490
We had Vake saying very helpful episode. Thanks. The intro music is weirdly soothing.
62
00:04:18.790 --> 00:04:20.810
Thank you, Vake. He contributed 14,000
63
00:04:21.190 --> 00:04:21.690
sats.
64
00:04:22.854 --> 00:04:23.354
Previously,
65
00:04:23.655 --> 00:04:24.395
we had,
66
00:04:25.574 --> 00:04:29.995
the Adam Back episode, CD 75, which I really enjoyed that conversation.
67
00:04:30.490 --> 00:04:37.790
We had Nate Johnson contribute 50,000 sats saying, this show is invaluable. I appreciate all you do for the space. Hope your family is okay.
68
00:04:38.205 --> 00:04:40.145
Thank you, sir. I appreciate that.
69
00:04:40.605 --> 00:04:47.104
I also was putting the Bitcoin dot review episodes that I was doing with NVK on the dispatch feed
70
00:04:47.620 --> 00:04:50.040
before he told me I wasn't allowed to do that anymore.
71
00:04:50.580 --> 00:04:51.080
And
72
00:04:51.700 --> 00:04:53.080
we had letter 6173
73
00:04:53.620 --> 00:04:54.440
with 7,000
74
00:04:54.965 --> 00:04:55.465
777
75
00:04:55.844 --> 00:04:59.224
sat saying all signal and 0 noise, amazing show.
76
00:04:59.604 --> 00:05:01.544
Last but not least, I put
77
00:05:01.940 --> 00:05:05.320
my Bitcoin Amsterdam 2022 conversation on the feed,
78
00:05:05.780 --> 00:05:07.400
which you freaks seem to appreciate.
79
00:05:07.860 --> 00:05:09.560
And we had Mallard Quackenbush
80
00:05:10.675 --> 00:05:14.615
contribute 50,000 sats saying free Ross. We had cryosats
81
00:05:14.995 --> 00:05:18.200
contributing 25,000 sats saying fight the good fight.
82
00:05:18.760 --> 00:05:19.900
Hashtag cryosats.
83
00:05:20.600 --> 00:05:23.100
So cheers. Oh, wait. This one's even better.
84
00:05:23.400 --> 00:05:24.700
Gotta read this one.
85
00:05:26.595 --> 00:05:36.670
And we have at stimmy with 21,000 sats saying, fuck fatfa and fuck circle 2. So on that note, we will continue to the show. I appreciate all you freaks.
86
00:05:37.290 --> 00:05:42.990
We have a great conversation lined up. It's actually one of the conversations that I was really excited to have in person.
87
00:05:43.565 --> 00:05:45.985
We tried to make it happen in person, but, unfortunately,
88
00:05:46.285 --> 00:05:47.505
we weren't able to.
89
00:05:48.604 --> 00:05:49.664
So we have,
90
00:05:50.205 --> 00:05:52.145
the Pleb Lab crew from Austin
91
00:05:53.030 --> 00:05:56.490
on the show today, and we're gonna have a really great conversation about Pleb Lab.
92
00:05:57.830 --> 00:06:02.985
We'll start with, we have we have thriller x Carr, my my former producer and
93
00:06:03.365 --> 00:06:08.720
94
00:06:09.440 --> 00:06:13.860
95
00:06:14.400 --> 00:06:16.740
another cofounder of ClubLab, Kyle,
96
00:06:17.405 --> 00:06:21.985
at the Bitcoin Bum. How's it going, Kyle? It's going alright. My dude, how about yourself?
97
00:06:22.925 --> 00:06:27.699
Very good. Very good. I'm excited for this conversation. It's good to be back on air with dispatch with y'all.
98
00:06:28.159 --> 00:06:28.659
Okay.
99
00:06:29.599 --> 00:06:30.979
We have John,
100
00:06:31.520 --> 00:06:32.419
who is,
101
00:06:33.205 --> 00:06:34.425
the founder of Zaprite,
102
00:06:35.205 --> 00:06:38.504
a company that is based in Austin and works out of the Pleb Lab.
103
00:06:38.965 --> 00:06:40.185
How's it going, John?
104
00:06:40.884 --> 00:06:42.960
105
00:06:44.060 --> 00:06:45.360
106
00:06:45.900 --> 00:06:48.080
So with all that said, I mean, I think the
107
00:06:48.785 --> 00:06:51.125
best way to start this conversation is,
108
00:06:52.465 --> 00:06:53.205
what is
109
00:06:53.905 --> 00:06:54.725
Pleb Lab?
110
00:06:57.745 --> 00:06:59.889
111
00:07:01.250 --> 00:07:08.724
it's it's been an interesting journey over the past year kind of really trying to figure out ourselves what the answer to that question is.
112
00:07:09.104 --> 00:07:12.085
But plain and simple, we are a pleb driven,
113
00:07:13.185 --> 00:07:15.284
accelerator program for the Bitcoin era.
114
00:07:18.100 --> 00:07:19.000
115
00:07:20.660 --> 00:07:21.720
So I have,
116
00:07:22.660 --> 00:07:26.360
the title of this episode is building a Bitcoin city with Pleb Lab.
117
00:07:27.575 --> 00:07:29.035
Austin has obviously
118
00:07:29.975 --> 00:07:30.475
become
119
00:07:31.335 --> 00:07:31.835
a
120
00:07:33.550 --> 00:07:41.250
mag has some kind of magnetic pull for Bitcoiners. It has become one of the predominant Bitcoin cities of the world, let alone America.
121
00:07:43.685 --> 00:07:49.945
Obviously, Pleb Lab has has been and you your crew over there has been playing a key role in that. Like, how do you
122
00:07:50.439 --> 00:07:52.699
how do you think about your role in Austin
123
00:07:53.560 --> 00:07:54.379
and how that,
124
00:07:55.000 --> 00:07:59.445
you know, how how that affects the the Publabs strategy as you guys build out here?
125
00:08:01.205 --> 00:08:02.325
126
00:08:02.725 --> 00:08:04.985
it's kind of fluid. It changes
127
00:08:06.005 --> 00:08:20.535
day to day, month to month. A lot of things in the space move really quickly and and changes happen fast, so we try our best to kind of stay flexible and make the changes that we need to when we need to. I think early on when we
128
00:08:20.995 --> 00:08:21.815
I mean, honestly,
129
00:08:22.355 --> 00:08:25.575
pre pleb lab when we started the Austin Bitcoin Club,
130
00:08:26.569 --> 00:08:30.910
the idea was just, like, a bunch of us seemed to be arriving in the city.
131
00:08:31.370 --> 00:08:36.805
There was only kind of, like, one time and place per month where everybody was actually getting together,
132
00:08:37.105 --> 00:08:40.885
which was at the time the bit depths over at Unchained Capital.
133
00:08:41.990 --> 00:08:47.610
And we launched Austin Bitcoin Club with just kind of a selfish desire to get together with Bitcoiners more often.
134
00:08:48.150 --> 00:08:54.995
And the more often we hung out with the Bitcoin scene and the people that were arriving and and the people that were deciding to stay,
135
00:08:55.535 --> 00:08:59.154
the more we realized there was just kind of, like, an unanswered question.
136
00:09:00.500 --> 00:09:04.279
The the bat signal was out there saying if you're a builder, come to Austin,
137
00:09:04.660 --> 00:09:13.575
but the the question that wasn't answered was like, what's next? And, we just basically tried to keep answering that question. It was, like, what's next?
138
00:09:14.115 --> 00:09:21.460
That what's next after getting a group of people together seemed to be finding a way to get developers together on a more regular basis
139
00:09:22.080 --> 00:09:24.660
and that grew into what we call PubLab today.
140
00:09:25.760 --> 00:09:26.880
141
00:09:27.945 --> 00:09:30.925
I mean, since I have you, Kyle, your personal story,
142
00:09:33.145 --> 00:09:37.005
you were drawn to Austin and Bitcoin kinda at the same time. Right?
143
00:09:37.940 --> 00:09:43.000
144
00:09:43.460 --> 00:09:45.880
but really, really, really briefly.
145
00:09:46.785 --> 00:09:57.080
And it was not a thing that I, like, went deep down the rabbit hole with at that time. I spent 4 years on kind of a spiritual journey around the world,
146
00:09:57.860 --> 00:10:07.055
and everywhere I went, I just kept meeting random people that would that would discuss Bitcoin with me, kind of diving into several hours long conversations,
147
00:10:08.155 --> 00:10:10.415
kind of piecing my understanding of it together.
148
00:10:10.730 --> 00:10:12.590
I didn't get skin in the game until,
149
00:10:14.170 --> 00:10:14.670
June
150
00:10:15.530 --> 00:10:17.230
or July of 2020
151
00:10:18.265 --> 00:10:24.045
during the pandemic kind of towards the tail end of the madness with the stock market after the crash.
152
00:10:24.905 --> 00:10:26.845
And shortly after I got into it,
153
00:10:27.440 --> 00:10:30.100
I realized that it it kind of
154
00:10:30.480 --> 00:10:34.340
I mean, I came to the conclusion that Bitcoin played a pivotal role
155
00:10:35.015 --> 00:10:50.540
in producing the most peaceful possible transition of power, and post military, I had always had this feeling that some type of revolution was imminent. So once I realized that I had found kind of, like, a a a premier puzzle piece for that
156
00:10:51.000 --> 00:10:51.820
that transition,
157
00:10:52.425 --> 00:10:54.685
I basically ended up going all in.
158
00:10:55.145 --> 00:10:58.925
While visiting some family in Dallas, I heard whispers in the wind,
159
00:10:59.465 --> 00:11:01.325
about this scene that was happening
160
00:11:01.690 --> 00:11:03.950
in Austin. I came down. I saw a 125
161
00:11:04.410 --> 00:11:04.910
Bitcoiners
162
00:11:05.450 --> 00:11:09.950
in the unchained space with no masks on, and I just never left.
163
00:11:11.565 --> 00:11:12.305
164
00:11:15.404 --> 00:11:18.464
165
00:11:19.769 --> 00:11:20.510
166
00:11:21.529 --> 00:11:22.190
I mean,
167
00:11:22.570 --> 00:11:32.345
I was, like, I was initially drawn to Austin because of Bitcoin Twitter. Obviously, probably like a lot of us. It was just so much, like, signal on there about what's going on in Austin.
168
00:11:34.005 --> 00:11:34.825
And I
169
00:11:35.205 --> 00:11:36.265
was in Canada.
170
00:11:36.980 --> 00:11:40.440
Actually, funny enough, I'm back here right now. But, I was
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in Canada at the time, and I was kinda just, like, living up in the mountains kind of, like, away from society and, you know, not really kind of had much interaction with Bitcoiners at all other than kinda working on this little hobby project and trying to, like, reach out to people.
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And so when I kinda left, I just decided to do a little bit of traveling. I landed down in Austin. And just immediately,
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the the difference was just massive. Like, you could sense it, like, straight away that there was something, like, you know, really crazy, like, bubbling up, in Austin.
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And so yeah. Right from the start, it just started to, you know, everything just started to kinda snowball for me personally just because of
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people, like, meeting Kyle and Car and Keyon and guys at Pleb Lab and Austin Bitcoin Club.
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It just it just offered this amazing, like, place to get together and chat to people and and figure out what was going on.
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I think there was, like, a BitDevs,
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like, 3 days after I arrived in Austin or something. And I remember going into the old Unchained office, and it was, like, a sweat box. It was, like, 250 people in there. And, like, you could couldn't really talk to anybody, and then you're going out for barbecue afterwards. And it's like, you know, it's it's great, but it's kinda hard to have these, like, you know, deeper conversations.
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And then I went to, like, the Austin Bitcoin Club, and that was just way more casual and much more, like, kinda chill. And that's where I met so many different people. I could have, like, you know,
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more kind of, like, you know, longer deeper conversations.
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And then obviously, like, after a couple of days, like, I met Kyle and, you know, we we started talking about this idea for pleb lab and things like that, and then that kind of, like, grew from there.
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But, yeah, just immediately like, once you land in Austin, you can immediately sense that there's something something going on, and it's in no small part to to these guys here, obviously.
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for that in Nashville with Bitcoin Park and just the community initiatives we have. I mean, you mentioned BitDevs. We've been doing a for the last year, we've had a very strong meet up,
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scene in Bitcoin meetup scene in Nashville, but we finally launched, proper BitDevs.
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I was you know, I'm I'm formally from New York
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where we had the OG of BitDevs.
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So I have a lot of respect for BitDevs, and I I was one of the proponents that, like, refused to
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launch 1,
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until
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until we were, you know, set to do it the right way. But we have our 2nd bid devs ever is going to be
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tonight at Bitcoin Park. So if you are in the Nashville area, you should consider going.
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Car,
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AODM.
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Pleb at plebweb
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are also are you also a contact for international plebs randomly passing through Austin?
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Yes. For sure. Reach out to us.
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You can hit us on the Twitter handle
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at pleb lab, or feel free to reach out to any of the the founders and shoot us a DM. We're we're always looking to work with cool people who are swinging through Austin.
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Yeah. Now Leo said that in our matrix chat,
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which
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anyone can join at,
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citadel dispatch.com if you click that citadel chat button. The matrix chat is extremely active. We over have over a 1000 Bitcoiners that are constantly talking about
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really cool things.
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It is obviously broadcast
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live during civil dispatches, but conversation happens there 247, 365.
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So consider joining,
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Self hosted, end to end encrypted.
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Not that you really have any privacy in a group chat, because any one of those, a 1000 people could be spooks. We probably have at least
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12 spooks in the in the chat.
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Carr,
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you left me a rabbit hole recap to do Pleb Lab full time.
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Sorry. How's that going?
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One of the things that I realized,
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you know, doing doing rabbit hole recap and working with Marty is just, like, the amount of
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just media knowledge that I learned from y'all and then just how to conduct yourselves in the Bitcoin space. I think most apparent point, we also learned, like, the work ethic that you guys have.
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But it was it was amazing to see to see it on a daily basis with with, with Marty
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and kinda understand, like, what it takes to actually run a company and and be successful at it. I think for me, like,
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starting out that way and doing it that way was, like, the best way to get into the Bitcoin space. I I just got extremely lucky and extremely blessed.
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And, it got to a certain point. Like, once we moved into the lab, it was it was kinda obvious to me that
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there was absolutely no way
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I I could do both jobs to the greatest of my ability anymore.
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And I think that's that that was, like, the main reason,
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to focus entirely on on Pleb Lab,
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was to give everything to it just like I had given everything to, like, TFTC.
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You know?
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So yeah.
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took away from t well, first of all, I would wanna say I'm very, you know, I'm very excited for you guys.
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And,
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I was, you know, I was joke I mean, obviously, I miss you
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at rabbit hole recap, but, I was very happy when you told me the news.
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We,
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you also took you also took away from TFTC
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TFTC
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your
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love
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of borderline,
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trademark infringement,
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since all of your shows that you guys seem to be launching out of ClubLab,
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all
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are have the same acronyms
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as as popular shows just coincidentally.
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you know, showing how all these fiat companies
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are
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not going to exist anymore once Bitcoin kind of becomes a standard, and it's just like sending a message. You know?
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That's how I look at it. I don't know if that's how the rest of the guys look at it, but it's more about, like, kind of sending a message to the Fiat establishment that we're coming.
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at the the meetup in Nashville, and and I had a very similar answer back then. I I kind of joked around. But, honestly,
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after we left Nashville,
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it dawned on me that,
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to be honest, we just kind of copied you guys. You really inspired that from the beginning with TFTC,
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the first copyright infringement among this
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just thought of randomly one day.
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we're on this tangent. So, like, how do you, obviously, Pleb Lab is a physical community space,
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but you guys also have,
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all this content. And
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in Nashville,
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we've been implementing a a relatively similar strategy. We often call it,
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locally produced, globally distributed, where you're building local community and in person events, but also at the same time, you're producing content
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that is distributed around the world.
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How do you guys like, how does that fit into the
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and how do you guys think about that when you're thinking about the Publabs strategy?
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You're seeing the legends of lightning guys do that.
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You know, I was I was able to talk to John's a couple of times before they launched that, and
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he had a lot of questions about that. And I I told him it was like it's it like, all the other guys that are rubbing off on us, here inside the lab, all these other devs that build in public, Mind you, a lot of them are NIMs, but there's something to be said about, you know, pushing code up to GitHub and everybody seeing everybody verifying it. So that's kinda how the way I look at it. And then the other thing, just from, like, a PlubLab perspective,
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is just the amount of people you can inspire. Right? It's how many other labs are are being created because they see us
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here in Austin doing what we're doing. And I think that that's another thing that's really important
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is showing people that there is a light out there and we can break through it,
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just by
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these little pieces of media that that go out to the masses.
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I mean, I've I've personally taken a lot of influence,
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from our open source community.
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You know, I came to the realization
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years ago, basically, after the Snowden leaks that are only
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shot at freedom and sovereignty was was the open source movement, Bitcoin and the greater open source movement. And since then, I've kind of tried to model
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everything I do off of that movement.
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And it's it's it's super interesting how it is obvious
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in
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open source
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developer culture,
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the way they do things. But when you try and model it for other things, people think you're crazy. So, like, for civil dispatch,
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it's live, it's unedited,
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it has uncensored live chat that anyone can participate in. I don't have ads or sponsors. It's completely funded via donations of our audience.
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People think that's crazy. Open Sats, you know, we as a 100% pass through, we don't take a salary out of it. We pass
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all any funds donated or passed to, you know, directly to open source contributors.
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People think we're absolutely crazy for that. Why don't we take,
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you know, why don't we take a 5% vig off of all donations like all the other nonprofits do?
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So it should be interesting
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watching this, you know, new generation as this open source movement gets stronger and stronger, kind of take that similar model and and implement it on various
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different initiatives.
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I think it could be very significant. I think people are really underestimating,
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how powerful that model is.
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this this, like,
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open source modeling, it it comes up a lot especially as we are, like, really getting more and more focused on working with startups,
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and the the real kind of challenge of finding the the balance between open source and actually
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earning an income with that open source kind of ethos.
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And I I think the balance is really important to touch on because open source is important. Like, PlugLab has kind of been open source since the very beginning. Anybody that has reached out
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asking, like, how we've done what we've done, like, how are we structuring it? I've given everything I have to anybody who's asked,
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but I but I also think it is important to note that
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if you are out there and you're looking at trying to start a company, but you're trying to keep it on an open source model,
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there's something to be said about
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timing and figuring out how all of that works, because
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it is true that open source is great, like, information being free is great, like, let the best man win.
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But I think at the same time, like, people who are trying to grow out this ecosystem,
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the people who are inspired to build,
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it's important that they are meeting their own kind of needs. Right? Like, it's very difficult
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to help anybody else if you are not first taking care of yourself. If you find yourself in a place where, like, you have no financial worries at all, and you can just free and open source everything right from the get go, I think that's great. I think keeping some things close to your chest in the early days is also a completely valid
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approach because,
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like, if you're starving and you can't keep a roof over your head and you can't, like, put food in your family's belly, like, you can't really help anybody else out either. So
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when we had that that panel talk at at UT about couple weeks ago, this was a question that they they asked in the room. Like, this this is the these graduate students were asking us, like, well, why would I go and create on Bitcoin if it's open source? Like, how do I make that into a a startup?
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And I think I think John and Keyon had, like, really great answers. John, do you remember what exactly you told them?
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what the answer I think my answer
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because I think you guys all thought that's upright was open source, so I got, like,
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caught up in that.
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I think my I think my answer was more that, like, instead of going the open source route, which you know is upright probably will eventually, like, I'm a huge fan of open source, and I definitely wanna have, like, at least, you know, a start 9 or Umbral app or something you can run on your node that will be, like, just completely open source. You can pull it down and run it. That that will definitely come eventually.
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But I think my answer in that panel in UT was more to do with the fact that I'm focusing on the self custody aspect of it.
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Is that, you know, that's my kind of important
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goal, at least now in the early stages of Zappar. It's just to build the tools that allow for people to to keep doing self custody
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rather than trying to build a custodial model,
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and have it, like, open source. You know, if you're doing if you're promoting self custody and you're building the tools that allow for self custody,
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then the open source part is important, but it's not as important. Right? Because we're not actually, like, custodying funds or doing anything that could, like, take anybody's money.
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But still, you know, it would be good to actually show the code that's running under underneath it.
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But, yeah, it's a huge it's a huge aspect of of building, and I love to see it particularly in the Bitcoin ecosystem. There's a lot of it. And it's definitely, you know, viable. Look at what Keyon is doing with Stacker News. Like, it's definitely,
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an option to build. There's so many open source,
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companies out there that are that are thriving. So it's great to see.
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the 3rd cofounder of PlebLab, who unfortunately couldn't join us, Keyon.
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Yeah. I was gonna say that that's the thing that I realized early on was just from talking with Keyon is, like, there's a way to do it. Like, there's a way to do both. It's a fine line to walk, but it can be done.
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And it's just like keeping the the IP, the the whether whether it's the Web of Trust or or whatever algorithm that he's implementing on the back end. Like, maybe that's the that's the stuff that he keeps close to the chest and everything else is open source.
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We're gonna have him do a web of trust workshop here
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in a couple weeks, so
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we'll be able to to see kinda how all that works. But I know he was talking to Carballo a lot when he was kinda developing that. So I think there is something to it. It's it it just has to be done in in a very careful and and,
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you know, obviously, fine line way. So
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fully open sourced, but the the rest of it is absolutely. Yeah. That's Look. I mean, it it depends it depends on on on what what type of company you're running and a bunch of different nuances, and there's,
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you know one of our favorite things to do on dispatch is argue about open source licensing because there's so many different licenses you can use.
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In Stacker News' case,
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is I think is a perfect example of something where
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the most value of it,
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is accrued to
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the brand and the network effect of the brand.
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So, yeah, like, if I have the source, I can go and create my own version of Stacker News.
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But unless, like, he absolutely fucks up management of Stacker dot news, like, that's gonna be where the majority of users are
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and a site that has more users in that context is is a more useful tool.
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So,
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I actually think that's a perfect example where,
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you know, you can have your cake while also you you can monetize relatively easily,
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while also providing the source.
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And then there's there's basically 2 arguments
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for
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why open source is important.
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One is the false argument, which is free in open source software, just a high level here just to get this out here since we're talking about it, where you're actually allowing anyone to take the code,
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change it, don't change it, distribute it, sell it, brand it however they want, do whatever they want with the code, that's extremely
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helpful from a censorship resistant and robustness of the movement point of view because it means that this code is viral. It doesn't die with any individual or company and will outlive us all. And then you have the source viewable licenses, which many will argue is not fully open source,
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because it isn't.
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And those licenses basically say you can't do anything with the code.
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This is to the extreme. You can't do anything with the code,
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but you can view it and you can expect it and you can verify it. And that becomes very important when you're talking about sensitive activities,
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stuff like encrypted messaging,
377
00:29:12.705 --> 00:29:13.924
stuff like managing
378
00:29:14.385 --> 00:29:16.725
Bitcoin secrets, Bitcoin private keys,
379
00:29:17.424 --> 00:29:23.760
and being able to verify that even though the service is saying it's encrypted or even though the service is saying your keys are secure,
380
00:29:24.780 --> 00:29:31.424
that's actually the case and they're not doing some funny business there. So those are the two main reasons why open source
381
00:29:32.605 --> 00:29:33.345
is important,
382
00:29:34.684 --> 00:29:36.144
and it's up to, you know,
383
00:29:36.550 --> 00:29:41.130
individuals and and companies to decide how that fits in their model, but I think
384
00:29:41.830 --> 00:29:42.310
it is,
385
00:29:43.165 --> 00:29:49.345
it is mostly a myth that you can't monetize an open source. I think people just it might be a little bit more difficult,
386
00:29:50.205 --> 00:29:50.945
but, ultimately,
387
00:29:51.645 --> 00:29:53.860
it can be significantly more powerful,
388
00:29:54.320 --> 00:30:00.465
when you get there, and it doesn't have to be right away. Like, there there shouldn't be a necessarily a rush right in the beginning to do it.
389
00:30:01.585 --> 00:30:04.164
But it should ideally be on most people's,
390
00:30:04.544 --> 00:30:05.044
radar,
391
00:30:05.505 --> 00:30:13.809
392
00:30:14.110 --> 00:30:18.049
last year, like, in the like, in the early days before Securus, like, really, really launched.
393
00:30:18.455 --> 00:30:36.404
And just hanging out with them and talking with them every day and spending time with them, I've come to, like, come to realize he's been right on a lot of things over time. And what I try to do at Publub is really focus on the users. It's it goes back to his ethos of, like, focusing on the users and making sure that they're happy, and what do you need to do to make sure that the the user base increases
394
00:30:36.945 --> 00:30:51.950
and what do they need. And I think for us at Publub, I think we're talking about this open source model how that can influence a lot of these labs being built. And I think that's one of those things that I really hit home on is that if we focus on the users, we focus on the devs inside the space,
395
00:30:53.675 --> 00:30:58.895
I think we'll be successful doing it. I I I don't think it's as it's as hard as people think.
396
00:30:59.195 --> 00:31:07.450
I think Keyon has proved over time that when you build a platform like a Snacker News or or even in the real world like a like a ABC or or a ClubLab,
397
00:31:09.115 --> 00:31:12.975
This can be done if you focus on the people inside the lab, inside the club, inside
398
00:31:13.515 --> 00:31:15.215
the inside the platform, so
399
00:31:15.595 --> 00:31:17.215
just wanna throw that out there.
400
00:31:18.670 --> 00:31:20.690
401
00:31:21.230 --> 00:31:22.930
in the comments on Matrix.
402
00:31:24.270 --> 00:31:27.250
They are asking, is Pleb Lab a place for nontechnical
403
00:31:27.550 --> 00:31:28.015
plebs
404
00:31:29.455 --> 00:31:35.955
405
00:31:38.480 --> 00:31:42.640
in some regards. So desk space on, like, a day to day basis is,
406
00:31:43.200 --> 00:31:52.145
extremely limited due to just the kind of nature of, of the size of the space and the amount of money I have to spend on desks.
407
00:31:52.845 --> 00:31:55.905
That being said, outside of our kind of day to day
408
00:31:56.490 --> 00:32:00.670
co working where we we are kind of hyper focused on
409
00:32:01.290 --> 00:32:02.410
technical folks,
410
00:32:02.890 --> 00:32:11.375
adding kind of mind space to the like, act it really the co working space acts as a synergistic kind of side
411
00:32:11.915 --> 00:32:19.610
to our accelerator program. That being said, we do have a lot of things that we we do. We have our PBS. We have our weekend
412
00:32:20.150 --> 00:32:21.770
kind of low level technical,
413
00:32:22.725 --> 00:32:32.630
workshops that we do on Saturdays. There's a lot of things that we do that are open to, like, non devs and and nontechnical folks as well, so, yes, the answer is yes and no.
414
00:32:36.710 --> 00:32:37.210
415
00:32:37.910 --> 00:32:38.730
Shall we
416
00:32:39.510 --> 00:32:41.610
go back to your comment about,
417
00:32:42.565 --> 00:32:43.845
you know, building a a
418
00:32:44.645 --> 00:32:45.545
you you mentioned,
419
00:32:46.405 --> 00:32:48.265
wrestling with open source
420
00:32:48.645 --> 00:32:49.945
when it comes to
421
00:32:51.600 --> 00:32:53.380
helping startups in the space,
422
00:32:54.399 --> 00:32:57.380
at Pleb Lab. I mean, we have John here.
423
00:32:58.325 --> 00:33:03.085
He, you know, I guess he started John, like, how does Zap Right
424
00:33:03.525 --> 00:33:06.265
did how did Pleb Lab help with
425
00:33:07.039 --> 00:33:13.700
you building out Zap. Right? And how do you ex hope to see them go forward as they, like, kind of more formalize,
426
00:33:15.635 --> 00:33:18.054
you know, working with builders directly.
427
00:33:19.395 --> 00:33:19.895
428
00:33:21.235 --> 00:33:35.445
Well, for me, I kinda touched on it a little bit earlier about, you know, I kind of came down into Austin and wasn't really you know, didn't have much connection with the Bitcoin community even though I've been in Bitcoin for, like, quite a while before I started Zap. Right?
429
00:33:36.625 --> 00:33:37.764
But one of the things,
430
00:33:38.144 --> 00:33:46.470
you know, that immediately helped was just the fact that they were running Austin Bitcoin Club, and I could just meet up and and have very social interactions with other Bitcoiners.
431
00:33:47.490 --> 00:33:55.315
So that was, like, just immensely helpful just from getting into a new city and, like, you know, making new friends and meeting people and figuring out the lay of the land.
432
00:33:56.335 --> 00:34:05.700
But very quickly, I think within within a couple of days of of being in Austin, I met Kyle and we chatted about his idea for Pleb Lab. And I think he kind of offered me the first, like, desk in there,
433
00:34:06.800 --> 00:34:10.020
to kinda come in. And and that was that was huge because
434
00:34:10.455 --> 00:34:13.755
it just gave me, like, this co working space to kind of, like,
435
00:34:14.215 --> 00:34:19.595
sit and start thinking about Zap right on a deeper level and figure out, okay. Well, like, you know,
436
00:34:19.910 --> 00:34:37.079
this seems to be something here. There's a lot of people who are, like, excited about it, thinking about it. I should think about setting up a company. How do I do that? Of course, these guys had, like, you know, plenty of contacts that they had made from their their couple of months of already, like, hosting events in Capital Factory in Austin. So there's plenty of people to reach out to about that.
437
00:34:37.780 --> 00:34:40.680
And then as more and more developers, like, started to come in,
438
00:34:41.460 --> 00:34:47.424
you know, it was just amazing to be able to sit in the same, like, small little office around other, like,
439
00:34:47.724 --> 00:34:50.865
like, well known, well respected, like, Bitcoin developers.
440
00:34:52.029 --> 00:34:54.930
And then, of course, all the founders came in, Michael from Oshi,
441
00:34:56.029 --> 00:34:57.890
you know, bunch of other people.
442
00:34:58.349 --> 00:35:11.890
And that that on a personal level, that just helped me so much because it just got me to to think I'd never started a company before. So it got me to think about how, you know, founders think about different things, what's important, like, what's what you should be kind of focusing on.
443
00:35:13.230 --> 00:35:21.875
And then, of course, there was just the the the massive amount of, like, community events and things that they were running, like Block Party and things like that that were just exposing
444
00:35:22.869 --> 00:35:23.369
Zaprite
445
00:35:23.670 --> 00:35:35.565
and Bitcoin in general to, like, just a huge audience, which was, of course, you know, putting more of a spotlight on what was happening in Austin, which then attracted, like, VCs. And there was so many different, like, VCs and people passing through Austin.
446
00:35:36.265 --> 00:35:49.550
And then I just got to have so many more of those meetings. And then, of course, like, formed a company and started raising money. And all of that, I think, was, like, you know, not possible until I came down to Austin and met with these guys and, like, kind of
447
00:35:49.915 --> 00:35:54.735
just, like, landed on their springboard and basically was able to just, you know,
448
00:35:55.115 --> 00:35:59.240
piggyback on all of the the proof of work that these guys were putting in.
449
00:35:59.720 --> 00:36:00.940
I think it just accelerated
450
00:36:01.400 --> 00:36:01.900
Zaprite's,
451
00:36:02.360 --> 00:36:04.220
like, journey immensely,
452
00:36:05.080 --> 00:36:09.135
and my own personal one as well. I made so many amazing friends in Like, it's unbelievable.
453
00:36:10.235 --> 00:36:12.895
But, yeah, I mean, in terms of helping Zap, right, just
454
00:36:13.275 --> 00:36:16.975
just general marketing events, like community events, different things
455
00:36:17.820 --> 00:36:19.200
that were constantly happening,
456
00:36:19.500 --> 00:36:20.000
hackathons,
457
00:36:20.300 --> 00:36:21.680
workshops, like sponsorships,
458
00:36:22.940 --> 00:36:31.035
just really, really good stuff to get the word out there, about SOPRITE and was, like, hugely beneficial, especially in those early days.
459
00:36:31.735 --> 00:36:40.839
460
00:36:44.075 --> 00:36:50.655
461
00:36:50.955 --> 00:36:52.575
462
00:36:53.470 --> 00:36:57.970
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I remember that thing. Also a mainstay of the Austin community.
463
00:36:58.829 --> 00:37:04.235
Yeah. Vivint's awesome. Yeah. In our first call, you were doing that from the old pleb lab, I think.
464
00:37:05.175 --> 00:37:07.355
465
00:37:08.430 --> 00:37:12.450
was in yeah. It was just in the capital factory, the old blah blah. Yeah.
466
00:37:12.990 --> 00:37:14.450
467
00:37:15.395 --> 00:37:34.545
468
00:37:35.085 --> 00:37:38.305
469
00:37:38.684 --> 00:37:43.025
saying someone uses liquid question mark. I think that was the conclusion of our
470
00:37:44.420 --> 00:37:50.200
471
00:37:50.904 --> 00:37:55.244
472
00:37:56.025 --> 00:37:56.525
which
473
00:37:56.984 --> 00:38:00.480
made all the l and d nodes fall out of sync. But, if
474
00:38:00.780 --> 00:38:04.240
and by the way, Freaks, there's gonna be a dispatch very shortly,
475
00:38:05.100 --> 00:38:10.535
on that topic. It's gonna be great. So if you're not subscribed on the podcast feed, make sure you subscribe to that.
476
00:38:11.875 --> 00:38:14.215
But everyone was talking about the l and d bug.
477
00:38:14.515 --> 00:38:21.290
And meanwhile, if if if the liquid Twitter account had tweeted out that they were having issues as well, I don't think anyone would have noticed.
478
00:38:24.315 --> 00:38:27.055
479
00:38:27.355 --> 00:38:27.855
480
00:38:28.795 --> 00:38:30.255
481
00:38:31.730 --> 00:38:34.390
482
00:38:34.930 --> 00:38:38.070
483
00:38:39.345 --> 00:38:39.845
So
484
00:38:40.305 --> 00:38:46.385
Kyle and Carr, to build on what John said, I mean, obviously, Pleb Lab was very early then. Those are just,
485
00:38:47.920 --> 00:38:59.645
you know, kind of knock on effects of the community building that you guys are doing in Austin. Like, how do you how do you look at supporting companies, you know, in a in a stronger way going forward? Like, what do you build on top of of that early,
486
00:38:59.945 --> 00:39:02.220
very positive experience that John just shared?
487
00:39:03.980 --> 00:39:08.240
488
00:39:08.619 --> 00:39:13.934
launched Pleb Lab as I as I kind of touched on much earlier on, it was really just
489
00:39:14.234 --> 00:39:18.095
a community of people that showed up to our Austin Bitcoin Club
490
00:39:18.640 --> 00:39:23.060
that had a kind of repetitive desire to get developers together,
491
00:39:23.600 --> 00:39:29.494
and all we did was we kind of kept running with that question of, like, what's next?
492
00:39:30.035 --> 00:39:36.135
And for us, that seemed obvious. It was like, let's just find a way to get developers together more often.
493
00:39:36.910 --> 00:39:38.529
Pleb Lab spawned.
494
00:39:38.829 --> 00:39:45.890
When we started Pleb Lab, it like, we kind of got really lucky that I had orange pill the VP of operations
495
00:39:46.675 --> 00:39:48.135
at the Capital Factory,
496
00:39:48.755 --> 00:39:52.055
and they gave us, like, a 3 month trial period
497
00:39:52.435 --> 00:39:55.095
for free with a 10 person office space.
498
00:39:55.650 --> 00:39:56.150
And
499
00:39:56.450 --> 00:39:56.950
knowing
500
00:39:57.250 --> 00:39:59.109
full well that, like, we were not
501
00:39:59.490 --> 00:40:04.895
an accelerator program. We had, like, an idea that what we could put together
502
00:40:05.195 --> 00:40:07.535
inside of a physical space with founders
503
00:40:07.835 --> 00:40:10.734
and really brilliant devs was something similar
504
00:40:11.115 --> 00:40:12.015
to an accelerator,
505
00:40:12.430 --> 00:40:18.690
but we also knew that we were not an accelerator. We were 3 plebs with a 10 person office
506
00:40:19.230 --> 00:40:21.570
and a belief that we could help people.
507
00:40:22.235 --> 00:40:28.095
And what we did with the guys like John and and everybody else who came into that first cohort, if you will,
508
00:40:28.395 --> 00:40:30.415
was we basically gave it away
509
00:40:30.760 --> 00:40:40.140
with the idea that, like, over time we could find a way to trend towards a business model and a deeper understanding of what we do,
510
00:40:40.825 --> 00:40:45.224
and that's kind of where we're at now. As time has gone on, we went to
511
00:40:45.545 --> 00:40:52.270
I mean, you you were in some of the conversations back and forth with me kind of helping me piece it all together, but, like, we went through
512
00:40:52.570 --> 00:40:56.670
dozens, if not hundreds of iterations of, like, how to kind of
513
00:40:58.275 --> 00:41:00.855
explain the business model that we have here.
514
00:41:01.235 --> 00:41:05.255
And what we've kind of alluded to today is that we are
515
00:41:05.910 --> 00:41:07.930
an accelerator program kind
516
00:41:08.310 --> 00:41:10.490
of rebuilt for the Bitcoin era and
517
00:41:10.950 --> 00:41:12.010
for two reasons.
518
00:41:12.310 --> 00:41:14.010
It was rebuilt because
519
00:41:14.465 --> 00:41:17.125
necessity. We were not like a $1,000,000,000
520
00:41:17.505 --> 00:41:22.405
exit CEO who just, like, wanted to start a Bitcoin accelerator program with, like, fun money,
521
00:41:23.779 --> 00:41:24.599
but also
522
00:41:24.980 --> 00:41:34.115
because it actually seemed to us necessary to kind of reimagine the accelerator program for the Bitcoin era, because this is not,
523
00:41:35.134 --> 00:41:36.595
a new technology.
524
00:41:37.134 --> 00:41:38.994
It's the new technology,
525
00:41:39.720 --> 00:41:41.020
And I think that
526
00:41:41.320 --> 00:41:49.340
there's value in the accelerated models of the past, but I think for the way that Bitcoin's being built with it being free and open source,
527
00:41:49.705 --> 00:41:52.525
there's a lot of nuances in this technological
528
00:41:52.825 --> 00:41:53.965
era that are significantly
529
00:41:54.345 --> 00:41:56.045
different than web 2,
530
00:41:56.585 --> 00:42:00.100
and we've really tried to take an approach that kind of reorients
531
00:42:00.640 --> 00:42:03.300
an accelerator program to make more sense,
532
00:42:04.240 --> 00:42:06.135
for the startups we work with today.
533
00:42:06.935 --> 00:42:07.675
So basically,
534
00:42:08.455 --> 00:42:16.140
some of the differences that we see right now are that we like, we don't do cohorts. I use the term for lack of, like, really a better
535
00:42:16.520 --> 00:42:17.020
term.
536
00:42:17.640 --> 00:42:21.740
When we find rock stars who are building really cool things,
537
00:42:22.595 --> 00:42:28.135
if they're ready to work with us, we're ready to work with them. We will start day 1 as soon as they show up.
538
00:42:28.435 --> 00:42:29.895
We also don't really have,
539
00:42:30.500 --> 00:42:31.800
end dates. We
540
00:42:32.660 --> 00:42:36.119
will work with you as long as you wanna work with us. Our our kind of,
541
00:42:37.220 --> 00:42:39.160
goal is a first round of fundraising.
542
00:42:39.555 --> 00:42:40.515
So we,
543
00:42:40.915 --> 00:42:41.415
include
544
00:42:42.035 --> 00:42:48.535
free access to our space and all of our resources for as long as it takes to get our startups funded.
545
00:42:49.360 --> 00:42:57.380
After that, we hope that they wanna stick around and continue to add brainpower and understanding of the ecosystem for for entrepreneurship,
546
00:42:58.545 --> 00:42:59.525
for the next
547
00:42:59.825 --> 00:43:01.525
group of people coming through.
548
00:43:02.305 --> 00:43:04.405
But, yeah, it's basically, like, indefinite
549
00:43:05.619 --> 00:43:06.119
assistance,
550
00:43:07.059 --> 00:43:14.119
because, really, what we've built here isn't just like a business model. It it has become a business, but, really, it's a group of friends
551
00:43:14.465 --> 00:43:24.720
who care about one another and want to see each other and the Bitcoin ecosystem succeed, and I think that's probably the biggest difference between us and the the
552
00:43:25.260 --> 00:43:26.880
the kind of fiat competition
553
00:43:27.180 --> 00:43:29.200
accelerator programs of the past.
554
00:43:30.175 --> 00:43:31.155
What we do
555
00:43:31.455 --> 00:43:33.235
also, Matt, is, like,
556
00:43:33.695 --> 00:43:35.395
we have a kind of umbrella
557
00:43:36.735 --> 00:43:37.235
program.
558
00:43:37.630 --> 00:43:43.810
We we kind of know, like, where we get started and kind of how to road map towards the end of the fundraising,
559
00:43:44.190 --> 00:43:46.770
but we also tailor every single,
560
00:43:48.704 --> 00:43:58.369
approach to the founder's needs with where they are as a founder and a company when they come through the door because each and every founder has a a different
561
00:43:59.069 --> 00:44:02.130
set of skills and a different set of needs when they come to us.
562
00:44:03.625 --> 00:44:12.605
563
00:44:13.750 --> 00:44:27.365
each each person, each individual, each Bitcoiner, each founder is different. And and they're different in in in, like, a lot of different skill sets, but a a lot of different paths of where they are in in their life and and in their company's life. And what we try to do is just really
564
00:44:27.745 --> 00:44:30.885
look at look at it from a how can we help perspective,
565
00:44:31.240 --> 00:44:35.420
and then we get them plugged into the people that they need help with. Right? And then
566
00:44:36.039 --> 00:44:42.315
we even do one better where we try to really game plan, like a rollout, kind of like a, a a a a
567
00:44:43.115 --> 00:44:45.695
an entryway to launching their company.
568
00:44:46.475 --> 00:44:49.135
I I've I've come to realize that doing it that way,
569
00:44:49.579 --> 00:44:58.880
especially with Bitcoiners, is is just the easier way and more natural way to do it as opposed to forcing people in a cohort and forcing them to,
570
00:44:59.295 --> 00:45:02.915
you know, get done by a certain time, like, sure that works. But
571
00:45:03.215 --> 00:45:05.155
where we're located inside of Austin,
572
00:45:05.455 --> 00:45:14.720
it's not really Austin me, I should say, like, to to do that. It's more Austin's kinda very laid back and chill, and it's a like, the city that we're in
573
00:45:15.964 --> 00:45:23.905
plays a big role in how we kinda run the accelerator right now. I I would say I don't know if Kyle believes that, but I I certainly see it. You look at a lot of the Austin
574
00:45:24.359 --> 00:45:27.660
main state companies here, it's a very relaxed environment.
575
00:45:27.960 --> 00:45:28.460
And,
576
00:45:29.480 --> 00:45:31.660
people like to work hard, but they also like to
577
00:45:34.315 --> 00:45:34.815
relax.
578
00:45:35.835 --> 00:45:39.435
579
00:45:39.915 --> 00:45:42.210
is is kind of something that we do here,
580
00:45:42.670 --> 00:45:48.050
with the program that we've put together, and and you touched on it, I think, before we started recording, Matt, is that,
581
00:45:49.875 --> 00:45:52.375
we're really scrappy because we had to be. We're
582
00:45:52.675 --> 00:45:54.855
aiming to assist startups
583
00:45:55.475 --> 00:45:56.455
while ourselves
584
00:45:57.075 --> 00:45:58.135
being a startup,
585
00:45:58.830 --> 00:46:05.890
and that has had that has had an, like, a profound effect on our own kind of critical thinking about how to operate.
586
00:46:06.670 --> 00:46:07.650
We're not
587
00:46:08.145 --> 00:46:09.845
giving start ups $250,000.
588
00:46:11.105 --> 00:46:16.885
We're not flying them halfway around the world and putting them up in lodging, but what we are doing is is
589
00:46:17.660 --> 00:46:18.480
giving them
590
00:46:18.940 --> 00:46:26.000
our blood, sweat, and tear equity. Like, we we're putting in literally everything we have every single day,
591
00:46:26.424 --> 00:46:35.980
and we are, like it's not just proof of work. It's like compounding proof of work. The people who are in the program today, like, our first round of, like, the official
592
00:46:36.540 --> 00:46:40.560
accelerator program in pleb lab phase 2, we've seen
593
00:46:40.940 --> 00:46:41.440
tremendous
594
00:46:41.980 --> 00:46:43.020
growth and,
595
00:46:43.340 --> 00:46:44.240
a kind of, like,
596
00:46:45.134 --> 00:46:47.075
ease, if you will, relative
597
00:46:48.095 --> 00:47:03.474
to the first cohort. Because not only have we learned a lot about what we're doing, but we also have a ton of other people around who have learned a lot about this space. And we're all kind of compounding that proof of work over and over and over again, and it just kind of gets exponentially
598
00:47:03.775 --> 00:47:04.275
better.
599
00:47:05.775 --> 00:47:07.055
600
00:47:09.135 --> 00:47:11.875
in you're you're almost appear in the building process.
601
00:47:12.599 --> 00:47:25.455
602
00:47:25.835 --> 00:47:29.855
And, like, as we were a peer in the process ourselves
603
00:47:30.330 --> 00:47:32.830
kind of, like, on the brink regularly
604
00:47:34.250 --> 00:47:37.070
of kind of, like, okay. How are we going to pay the bills
605
00:47:37.424 --> 00:47:45.600
next week? How are we gonna pay the bills next month? There were some real struggle points where it was, like, okay. We're actually kind of pushing people away with
606
00:47:45.920 --> 00:47:51.460
this energy of, like, kind of doom and gloom on a regular basis, and it took a long time to work through that.
607
00:47:53.175 --> 00:47:59.835
But it it I think in the long run, it strengthened all of us because we all had to kind of go through the same struggles together,
608
00:48:00.350 --> 00:48:02.610
and we've come out stronger forward on the other side.
609
00:48:03.150 --> 00:48:07.890
610
00:48:11.495 --> 00:48:14.555
611
00:48:14.855 --> 00:48:17.515
612
00:48:17.975 --> 00:48:18.955
613
00:48:20.349 --> 00:48:25.569
614
00:48:28.234 --> 00:48:30.655
So another thing I wanted to touch on was
615
00:48:31.275 --> 00:48:33.454
something that we're also doing in Nashville,
616
00:48:35.900 --> 00:48:39.760
which, by the way, I hope the theme of this this show is is
617
00:48:40.860 --> 00:48:42.800
a budding and prosperous partnership
618
00:48:44.695 --> 00:48:46.715
between Pleb Lab and Bitcoin Park.
619
00:48:48.135 --> 00:48:48.635
620
00:48:48.935 --> 00:48:49.435
Yeah.
621
00:48:49.895 --> 00:48:52.700
Just real quick, Matt. We've learned so much from y'all. Like
622
00:48:53.180 --> 00:49:12.830
like, going over there and hanging out with you and Rod and seeing how y'all do things, like, it's made us, like, more aware of, like, where we're failing. Right? It's it's seeing the things that you guys do really, really well and, like, saying, how can we do the same thing at Plubhub? It's really learning from each other. And even seeing Terminus and seeing those guys in Atlanta and learning from them, it's
623
00:49:13.390 --> 00:49:17.490
it it it's gonna take all of us to figure this out. Like, that's what I believe.
624
00:49:19.125 --> 00:49:19.625
625
00:49:20.565 --> 00:49:24.404
But where I was going with it is so we have been focused
626
00:49:24.964 --> 00:49:26.105
we have 2 universities,
627
00:49:27.010 --> 00:49:28.230
Belmont and Vanderbilt
628
00:49:28.690 --> 00:49:33.270
that are blocks away from Bitcoin Park. And we've had you know, we're, like, starting
629
00:49:33.570 --> 00:49:34.710
various initiatives,
630
00:49:35.330 --> 00:49:36.470
with those students.
631
00:49:37.155 --> 00:49:38.135
You guys mentioned,
632
00:49:39.075 --> 00:49:39.575
UT,
633
00:49:39.955 --> 00:49:41.175
University of Texas.
634
00:49:42.755 --> 00:49:45.015
I guess all 3 of you went and presented
635
00:49:45.329 --> 00:49:46.770
there. How do you how do you think about,
636
00:49:47.809 --> 00:49:52.470
I also saw a picture on Twitter of Kyle shirtless outside of one of the campus buildings.
637
00:49:52.914 --> 00:50:01.575
Like, how do you guys think about those initiatives and and how that impacts Bitcoiners in general? I mean, getting this next generation into Bitcoin and interested.
638
00:50:03.860 --> 00:50:09.960
639
00:50:11.135 --> 00:50:15.315
Right now, TOFR is doing a really good job along with Dee to to get
640
00:50:15.855 --> 00:50:17.555
more and more Bitcoin focused
641
00:50:18.015 --> 00:50:19.715
education inside of UT.
642
00:50:20.330 --> 00:50:29.295
Me and Telstra me and Telstra have discussed, you know, reaching out to ACC, which is our local community college because I think there's a there's a big need there, and it's probably an easier sell
643
00:50:29.994 --> 00:50:30.494
personally.
644
00:50:31.674 --> 00:50:34.974
I I do think I think I think in order to really get
645
00:50:36.050 --> 00:50:38.630
more Bitcoiners moved over from this, like,
646
00:50:39.090 --> 00:50:42.310
crypto space here in town is we have to hit the city.
647
00:50:42.770 --> 00:50:52.065
So that's gonna be, like, one of the things that I focus. I really started kinda moving in that direction already, but I think next year, really gonna start focusing in and on getting Bitcoin
648
00:50:52.740 --> 00:50:57.619
involved in in the city at some in some segment. Because right now, I think a lot of these these,
649
00:50:58.020 --> 00:50:58.920
crypto companies
650
00:50:59.460 --> 00:51:02.694
kinda give them the wrong information. So I think it's just
651
00:51:03.474 --> 00:51:07.095
I've I've realized that in order for us for PlubLab to become the
652
00:51:07.470 --> 00:51:20.665
the the Austin Bitcoin company that I I foresee it becoming, we have to be more involved with our community here inside of the city, inside of the education space and stuff like that. And I think you guys are doing similar things in Nashville. So I think it's the way I think.
653
00:51:21.045 --> 00:51:34.355
654
00:51:34.735 --> 00:51:36.995
And for a while, we were kind of on this
655
00:51:37.295 --> 00:51:40.050
this thought wave of, like, okay. How do we build
656
00:51:40.350 --> 00:51:41.650
more builders? And
657
00:51:42.430 --> 00:51:48.050
I actually think that building more builders is is probably a good thing, and I I would say that's
658
00:51:48.434 --> 00:51:52.375
the educational side of things. I think the other thing that we're kind of
659
00:51:52.835 --> 00:51:55.414
looking to try and do now is is
660
00:51:55.940 --> 00:51:56.440
using
661
00:51:56.740 --> 00:52:01.320
UT, using Austin Community College, using our local tech and entrepreneurial meetups
662
00:52:01.700 --> 00:52:03.320
to actually not build
663
00:52:03.860 --> 00:52:04.680
new builders,
664
00:52:05.125 --> 00:52:06.265
but to facilitate
665
00:52:07.445 --> 00:52:08.345
better builders
666
00:52:08.965 --> 00:52:12.425
on a better ecosystem. Because there's actually
667
00:52:13.289 --> 00:52:14.029
a ton
668
00:52:14.490 --> 00:52:15.230
of builders
669
00:52:15.769 --> 00:52:17.309
in our local community.
670
00:52:17.690 --> 00:52:20.235
I think, really, what we just need to do is,
671
00:52:20.715 --> 00:52:23.615
get out there and kind of introduce them to,
672
00:52:24.475 --> 00:52:42.695
Bitcoin in a way that that makes sense for them to, like, want to come over and build on it. And I think our workshops getting involved with, like, helping to launch classes at UT, and then just really getting out there and talking with people on, like, a 1 on 1 basis at the the tons and tons of meetups around the city,
673
00:52:43.155 --> 00:52:50.430
are some of the ways we're kind of looking to approach that right now. So it's some level of, like, building new builders, but then also kind of facilitating,
674
00:52:51.609 --> 00:52:53.069
just like a knowledge base
675
00:52:53.369 --> 00:52:58.305
inside of a group of builders that that are already technical and really just trying to help them understand
676
00:52:58.765 --> 00:53:01.265
why it makes sense to come over and build on Bitcoin.
677
00:53:03.940 --> 00:53:11.160
678
00:53:11.484 --> 00:53:14.385
heavy handed with this with the ClubLab sales pitch.
679
00:53:15.244 --> 00:53:17.825
And and I I think time and time again, that that
680
00:53:18.365 --> 00:53:19.505
that kind of pathway,
681
00:53:19.990 --> 00:53:22.730
has worked for us time and time again. So we're just gonna keep,
682
00:53:23.110 --> 00:53:26.970
you know, using that that kind of tool to to do it, and I think
683
00:53:27.485 --> 00:53:31.905
people will see the light, and they'll just they'll they'll know where to go. I I think I I believe that.
684
00:53:34.510 --> 00:53:35.490
685
00:53:36.110 --> 00:53:37.250
I agree a 100%.
686
00:53:39.710 --> 00:53:43.410
So where do you guys wanna go with this? We're about 55 minutes in.
687
00:53:46.025 --> 00:53:48.685
I basically asked everything I wanted to touch on.
688
00:53:49.065 --> 00:53:50.925
You guys have anything you wanna touch on?
689
00:53:52.130 --> 00:53:57.349
690
00:53:57.730 --> 00:53:59.030
You wanna talk about that, Kyle?
691
00:54:00.395 --> 00:54:05.915
692
00:54:06.555 --> 00:54:11.010
I think it touches on what I kind of just said with this idea of facilitating,
693
00:54:12.510 --> 00:54:16.925
kind of, like, better builders on a better network is really starting to put out
694
00:54:17.245 --> 00:54:17.745
the
695
00:54:18.285 --> 00:54:18.785
the
696
00:54:20.045 --> 00:54:27.560
put out the signal or or at least just kind of start talking about getting it out there in the discussion realm is this idea of,
697
00:54:28.500 --> 00:54:29.720
Bitcoin transitioning
698
00:54:30.339 --> 00:54:33.800
into or having maybe already transitioned into,
699
00:54:34.725 --> 00:54:36.345
what I'm calling the
700
00:54:36.645 --> 00:54:37.145
application
701
00:54:37.445 --> 00:54:37.945
era.
702
00:54:38.805 --> 00:54:50.890
I think what we've seen up until now is a lot of, like, really heavy focus on the, like, move slow and don't break things, the, like, the privacy, the security, the robustness of its network and its infrastructure.
703
00:54:51.875 --> 00:54:54.375
And I think where we're seeing things go now,
704
00:54:55.075 --> 00:55:05.080
it requires, like, a a kind of conversation or several conversations to really figure out how things work as we move into this new era of, like, the things that aren't built,
705
00:55:06.340 --> 00:55:11.560
on Bitcoin or in Bitcoin, but that are built on top of Bitcoin. This
706
00:55:11.905 --> 00:55:16.484
now allows us to actually start moving fast and breaking things.
707
00:55:16.785 --> 00:55:19.765
And I I think one of our pleb devs in the space
708
00:55:20.180 --> 00:55:21.800
says it like this. He says,
709
00:55:23.220 --> 00:55:24.120
the introduction
710
00:55:24.420 --> 00:55:25.480
of the application
711
00:55:26.100 --> 00:55:28.920
era is how we move the network
712
00:55:29.365 --> 00:55:32.665
or introduce the network to the next 1,000,000,000 users,
713
00:55:32.965 --> 00:55:39.110
and and I think that's really true. So I think it's it's interesting to talk about what that looks like and and where we think it goes from here.
714
00:55:46.390 --> 00:55:48.330
715
00:55:51.325 --> 00:55:53.825
There's definitely been I've I've noticed a
716
00:55:54.684 --> 00:55:56.144
a sea change in
717
00:55:57.840 --> 00:55:58.500
kind of
718
00:55:58.960 --> 00:56:03.540
the community of builders in the space in a positive way over the last
719
00:56:04.480 --> 00:56:05.780
maybe 3 years,
720
00:56:07.695 --> 00:56:10.275
and it's very it's very noticeable,
721
00:56:11.055 --> 00:56:12.515
with the Austin crew.
722
00:56:14.570 --> 00:56:15.790
Particularly, like,
723
00:56:16.170 --> 00:56:18.990
I I think a good example of it is
724
00:56:21.685 --> 00:56:23.785
massive friend of the pod, Michael Atwood,
725
00:56:24.325 --> 00:56:26.745
and how he approaches building out Oshi.
726
00:56:27.525 --> 00:56:28.665
He's very much
727
00:56:29.080 --> 00:56:35.900
on the ground all the time, connecting directly with users. I guess, Keyon would be a very good example with Stacker News.
728
00:56:39.525 --> 00:56:42.585
We I felt like we really didn't have as much of that
729
00:56:43.204 --> 00:56:46.345
beef you know, maybe 5 years ago, 6 years ago,
730
00:56:48.420 --> 00:56:50.100
where, like, the founders were directly
731
00:56:50.820 --> 00:56:54.360
the the the builders were directly interacting with the users,
732
00:56:55.380 --> 00:56:57.240
to a larger degree. And particularly,
733
00:56:57.805 --> 00:57:00.865
I guess it always happened, but particularly new users,
734
00:57:01.245 --> 00:57:02.465
new, like, new Bitcoiners,
735
00:57:03.485 --> 00:57:06.065
people that are just coming into the space.
736
00:57:07.000 --> 00:57:09.340
Yeah. I think it's it's an important,
737
00:57:10.840 --> 00:57:12.060
like, it's an important
738
00:57:12.360 --> 00:57:15.635
transition in the space because, like, a lot of what already
739
00:57:16.015 --> 00:57:24.970
740
00:57:26.470 --> 00:57:31.825
I Voltage, I think is a really great example of a company that that scales significantly faster,
741
00:57:32.365 --> 00:57:32.865
when
742
00:57:33.325 --> 00:57:43.300
I mean, it's built for the growth of the application layer. Right? Like, the more people building applications on top voltage, like, the more that that infrastructure layer scales,
743
00:57:43.600 --> 00:57:47.860
and I think that's probably not the only example. Like, a lot of these infrastructure
744
00:57:48.265 --> 00:57:49.965
things that have been put in place,
745
00:57:50.665 --> 00:57:54.285
the way to accrue more value to them is to get more people building,
746
00:57:55.065 --> 00:58:00.580
and that when those people build, it's like the the growth of that user base,
747
00:58:02.000 --> 00:58:07.345
grows as well. I think if you look back at web 2.0, it's like the same thing. Right? Like, the Internet was
748
00:58:07.905 --> 00:58:08.645
a great,
749
00:58:09.905 --> 00:58:12.645
discovery or invention as well. Right? But it it
750
00:58:13.105 --> 00:58:17.119
didn't really start becoming that valuable until email, and,
751
00:58:17.580 --> 00:58:18.080
like,
752
00:58:18.700 --> 00:58:24.240
all of the things, the applications that got built on top of the protocol started entering
753
00:58:25.725 --> 00:58:32.465
into, like, the realm of usability. Right? Like, it's everybody always talks about, like, when is it gonna be, like, usable?
754
00:58:32.930 --> 00:58:44.805
When when can, like, grandma use it? Like, all of these kind of questions about the next round of users, well, that comes from the application. It's the people who are building kind of unique use cases,
755
00:58:45.665 --> 00:58:56.450
across that protocol. That's really what I think is going to help scale up, the next round of users to Bitcoin. It's the people who kind of get it through the monetary lens, through the kind of revolutionary
756
00:58:56.910 --> 00:59:07.869
lens. I think a lot of the the purists, if not most of the purists, are kind of already here. Right? And now it's going to just get people involved through kind of very
757
00:59:08.250 --> 00:59:08.750
similar,
758
00:59:09.849 --> 00:59:13.309
use cases as the way the the the Internet got more and more users.
759
00:59:14.410 --> 00:59:15.869
760
00:59:16.500 --> 00:59:17.000
761
00:59:18.525 --> 00:59:25.665
I'll let you go in a second, John, but we got Tony in the comments. He posted one of my favorite memes, which is the just use voltage button
762
00:59:26.040 --> 00:59:28.619
where it's like you can have voltage do
763
00:59:29.320 --> 00:59:36.605
all the heavy Bitcoin lifting on the back end when you just have an app that interfaces directly with what they have. John, go.
764
00:59:38.025 --> 00:59:47.230
765
00:59:48.090 --> 01:00:02.559
like, I I can't wait to get, like, some really awesome integrations done with Volta. Js. Like, we're we're talking and and working on some stuff that's, like, you know, I think is gonna be, like, really cool in the future. But this was one of the, you know, the main reasons about why
766
01:00:02.859 --> 01:00:03.599
I started
767
01:00:03.980 --> 01:00:06.640
Zapride in the first place was because I think
768
01:00:07.019 --> 01:00:16.965
I mean, I started it because it came out of a need that I had. I just needed an invoicing app because I was a contractor and I was earning Bitcoin and I needed to send, you know, professional invoices to companies.
769
01:00:18.270 --> 01:00:42.890
So it came out of that personal need. And then, obviously, like, I thought, well, we're gonna need more of these applications as as Bitcoin grows out. And I think Kyle is, like, right. And I I've heard him talk about this quite a lot about, you know, we're reaching that application layer stage where a lot of a lot of new businesses are gonna be built up, which abstract away a lot of the stuff that these amazing, like, Bitcoin and Lightning developers have been doing for the last few years
770
01:00:43.255 --> 01:00:48.795
and removing, you know, a lot of the complexity. Like, they've built these really great tools like Voltage.
771
01:00:49.095 --> 01:01:09.880
And then we can bring in, like, you know, designers, new UI, UX people like myself and others to to build startups on top of that again, which just bring it and expand it out to, like, that little bit more of a market. Right? And just make it a little bit more accessible and just bit by bit will just slowly creep out and start pulling in more of the traditional markets that,
772
01:01:10.740 --> 01:01:16.494
you know, we all know eventually, like, that things are gonna, like, move over onto Bitcoin and lightning, particularly in the payments
773
01:01:17.515 --> 01:01:20.654
area. But, obviously, like, it has a lot more applications as well.
774
01:01:21.275 --> 01:01:24.255
But, yeah, I mean, it's it's really it's really amazing
775
01:01:24.670 --> 01:01:25.490
as a founder.
776
01:01:26.430 --> 01:01:29.550
I mean, we talked about the benefits of of Pleb Lab,
777
01:01:30.030 --> 01:01:36.095
and what that did for me and Zaprite, but also just having tools like like Voltage there as well.
778
01:01:37.275 --> 01:01:42.780
You know, I'm not a I'm not a traditional developer. So I can't I can't, you know, build my own lightning implementation.
779
01:01:43.640 --> 01:01:45.100
780
01:01:45.560 --> 01:01:51.154
voltage is a perfect example with you because I I remember our original call, the reason liquid was
781
01:01:51.775 --> 01:01:54.035
even being brought up was because,
782
01:01:57.270 --> 01:02:00.490
Liquid is, by design, federated model. So
783
01:02:00.790 --> 01:02:01.770
it is custodial
784
01:02:02.070 --> 01:02:03.210
it's it's custodial,
785
01:02:03.510 --> 01:02:09.215
but it's multisync custodial. So the risk of the custodian is is reduced and minimized.
786
01:02:09.755 --> 01:02:14.119
But as a result of the trade offs Liquid has made, it's very easy for an app developer
787
01:02:14.819 --> 01:02:22.244
to integrate Liquid where they're not holding custody of the user funds and the user has a relatively seamless experience.
788
01:02:22.785 --> 01:02:30.290
Lightning was not the case. And I remember during that conversation we had, I I don't think Voltage existed yet or it wasn't that big
789
01:02:30.850 --> 01:02:36.710
yet. But we kept going back to I was like, I know you wanna keep a self custody so that you don't do KYC,
790
01:02:37.090 --> 01:02:41.785
and that's a key aspect of the value prop and reduces user friction in terms of convenience.
791
01:02:42.325 --> 01:02:46.184
But how do you do self custody lightning in an easy way for users?
792
01:02:46.680 --> 01:02:50.060
And now all of a sudden you have Voltage and you're able to basically
793
01:02:50.920 --> 01:02:56.835
send that user to Voltage, maybe have them plug in some kind of API key or something into Zap. Right?
794
01:02:57.135 --> 01:03:01.635
And all of a sudden, they can accept lightning payments without you having to take custody of funds.
795
01:03:02.630 --> 01:03:06.310
796
01:03:06.950 --> 01:03:15.005
And yeah. I mean, you're right. The goal with Zapprite from the start has always been self custody and no k y c. As long as as it's, like, you know, possible
797
01:03:15.385 --> 01:03:16.045
in this,
798
01:03:16.585 --> 01:03:18.605
you know, market that we're entering into.
799
01:03:19.890 --> 01:03:22.630
And if we can keep building those tools where
800
01:03:23.090 --> 01:03:23.990
there's really
801
01:03:24.450 --> 01:03:35.485
easy UI, UX applications like Zap, right, that that have these deeper integrations into things like Voltage. And then you can, you know, simply, like you said, have these one click onboarding processes where people can
802
01:03:35.839 --> 01:03:45.460
spin up nodes where they still get control of the nodes. They have their access to their voltage dashboard if they need, but we've got some, like, mini UI stuff within Zap, right, that we can do.
803
01:03:46.305 --> 01:04:08.115
And we can have, like, really cool integrations where you send out an invoice, and we know, like, that you're expecting x amount of sats for this invoice. And we can say, like, oh, well, you need that inbound liquidity on on voltage. So how about, like, you know, we we give you some of our liquidity, and we use voltage's flow API, and we do all kind of, like, deeper integrations like that, which just abstract away a lot of that stuff,
804
01:04:08.835 --> 01:04:13.450
and get it to that grandma stage as as Kyle talks about. It's like we just need to
805
01:04:13.750 --> 01:04:15.130
we just need to build
806
01:04:15.590 --> 01:04:24.325
a lot of the the front end stuff that, like I said, piggybacks on top of the absolutely stellar work that's been done over the last few years on on at the protocol level.
807
01:04:24.945 --> 01:04:28.485
808
01:04:28.920 --> 01:04:31.580
like, yes, our grandmas can currently use,
809
01:04:31.880 --> 01:04:32.700
to a degree,
810
01:04:33.400 --> 01:04:35.660
you know, signal and Imessage and
811
01:04:35.960 --> 01:04:36.460
email.
812
01:04:37.975 --> 01:04:41.115
It's important to realize that when email was first created,
813
01:04:41.895 --> 01:04:43.595
those grandmas all have died.
814
01:04:45.300 --> 01:04:49.560
So we're really when when someone says we're, like, building for the grandmas,
815
01:04:50.580 --> 01:04:55.234
it's really like the people that are not quite grandmas yet or they're about to become grandmas.
816
01:04:55.535 --> 01:04:56.674
817
01:04:57.535 --> 01:04:58.355
818
01:04:58.815 --> 01:05:00.914
819
01:05:01.300 --> 01:05:12.165
820
01:05:12.465 --> 01:05:22.730
Now you just need more people building on top of it and and plugging into it. And and that's where I think, like, a Plublop can help is because we're seeing individuals come from different business sectors,
821
01:05:23.270 --> 01:05:35.285
and and they're looking to get into the Lightning or the Bitcoin space, but they don't know about the the the IBEXs, the the the the Voltages and the StartNines, and all those infrastructure companies are that are being
822
01:05:35.730 --> 01:05:36.230
platforms
823
01:05:36.610 --> 01:05:42.390
for anybody out there. And and I think that's the biggest thing I think that Publub can help with is that facilitation
824
01:05:43.010 --> 01:05:52.205
to those things. And and so So Yeah. I think it's I think it's so I think we're early, but I do see I do think, like, man, we're we're we're there. We're on that tipping point.
825
01:05:52.840 --> 01:05:58.940
826
01:06:00.075 --> 01:06:06.015
827
01:06:06.875 --> 01:06:07.375
828
01:06:08.020 --> 01:06:08.660
So it's,
829
01:06:09.060 --> 01:06:16.280
I I know this will probably get me somewhat attacked by a particular group of people, but it's a message that I had
830
01:06:16.994 --> 01:06:20.535
probably almost a year ago when we kind of started this thing.
831
01:06:22.115 --> 01:06:26.055
But I think to some extent, it's beyond Pleb Labs.
832
01:06:28.630 --> 01:06:32.490
A Pleb Lab can help facilitate a lot of the the kind of
833
01:06:33.350 --> 01:06:34.935
growth on an individual
834
01:06:35.235 --> 01:06:41.255
level for the builders that we work with. But, again, coming back to this this kind of
835
01:06:41.700 --> 01:06:47.240
reality that there aren't enough builders and that we're, like, looking to grow out the network of builders.
836
01:06:47.940 --> 01:06:48.340
I think,
837
01:06:49.665 --> 01:06:54.165
it's important that we we kind of, like, reframe some of the kind of language
838
01:06:54.625 --> 01:06:59.285
that we've seen in the space for a while now with this idea of, like, the way that we attack
839
01:07:00.049 --> 01:07:00.549
individuals
840
01:07:01.250 --> 01:07:05.109
who are kind of in the phase of their journey that's still shit coinery.
841
01:07:05.490 --> 01:07:11.815
I think, obviously, we wanna call out shit coinery. We wanna call out shit coins. We wanna call out the scammers.
842
01:07:12.275 --> 01:07:13.735
But I think for the, like,
843
01:07:14.195 --> 01:07:24.380
probably the bulk work of people who find themselves building there, they're just people, and they're trying to find a way to build something valuable, and they're trying to find a way to, like, provide for themselves.
844
01:07:24.845 --> 01:07:25.585
And I
845
01:07:25.885 --> 01:07:27.425
think, kind of attacking
846
01:07:27.805 --> 01:07:33.185
those types of people instead of, like, being open minded enough to allow for a discussion
847
01:07:33.610 --> 01:07:40.670
and to present them with the thoughts on why Bitcoin is better and why they could and should be building on Bitcoin.
848
01:07:41.015 --> 01:07:42.475
I think that's really important
849
01:07:42.775 --> 01:07:49.995
for the Bitcoin community at large is to, like, really start kind of trying to transition the the way we discuss
850
01:07:50.790 --> 01:07:51.849
Bitcoin versus
851
01:07:52.630 --> 01:07:53.770
building on shitcoins
852
01:07:54.070 --> 01:07:58.650
with that particular group of people, because it's a really large group of people, and they're technical,
853
01:07:59.005 --> 01:08:02.385
and they're again, they wanna build things. So I think
854
01:08:02.765 --> 01:08:11.190
yelling fuck you. You, like, you looked at the word Ethereum on a computer screen today is not really benefiting the growth of the application space,
855
01:08:11.490 --> 01:08:14.630
and I I think we should probably try to do something about that.
856
01:08:15.565 --> 01:08:18.945
857
01:08:20.605 --> 01:08:23.185
because we're thinking about, you know, how
858
01:08:23.740 --> 01:08:27.120
I do a lot of consulting work for Bitcoin Magazine,
859
01:08:28.220 --> 01:08:29.520
and I I basically
860
01:08:30.994 --> 01:08:37.014
lead their open source initiatives over there. And we were thinking about where does Bitcoin Miami
861
01:08:37.850 --> 01:08:43.550
and the like, last year, we had a 2,000 person open source stage dedicated to open source contributors,
862
01:08:43.930 --> 01:08:44.989
and it was basically
863
01:08:45.305 --> 01:08:48.925
3 days of in person sale dispatch. That was sick.
864
01:08:49.545 --> 01:08:55.430
And we were we were thinking, like, what do we wanna do this year? And and the actual the topic came up,
865
01:08:56.930 --> 01:08:59.350
do we want to basically encourage,
866
01:09:00.690 --> 01:09:01.670
shit coin builders
867
01:09:02.045 --> 01:09:03.505
to switch over to Bitcoin.
868
01:09:05.164 --> 01:09:09.264
And then the question came up, well, how would the perception
869
01:09:09.565 --> 01:09:11.264
be among the Bitcoin community
870
01:09:11.620 --> 01:09:13.400
of that as a plan?
871
01:09:13.780 --> 01:09:15.640
And I do think there's a
872
01:09:16.020 --> 01:09:17.880
element here that is
873
01:09:18.635 --> 01:09:28.350
you kinda have to separate Bitcoin Twitter from real life. And a a perfect example is 100%. Someone who I consider a friend, Seth Seth for privacy.
874
01:09:29.850 --> 01:09:33.710
He's focused on Bitcoin privacy, but he's also focused on Monero.
875
01:09:34.490 --> 01:09:36.270
And because he's focused on Monero,
876
01:09:37.435 --> 01:09:38.795
he's, you know, often
877
01:09:39.595 --> 01:09:41.215
he has a he has a very
878
01:09:43.035 --> 01:09:46.575
there there's a lot of animosity with him in the Bitcoin Twitter community.
879
01:09:46.940 --> 01:09:49.199
And so I invited him down to Bitcoin Park,
880
01:09:49.980 --> 01:09:54.480
came to Bitcoin Park. He spent 2 days with us, 2 days with our local community.
881
01:09:55.515 --> 01:10:02.495
He had Zeus connected to his own node, lightning node, and he made his first in person lightning payments in our coffee shop.
882
01:10:03.195 --> 01:10:04.495
He kept trying to
883
01:10:05.120 --> 01:10:10.580
pay us more money than he he owed us because he was trying to get the lightning payments to fail, and they weren't failing.
884
01:10:10.960 --> 01:10:13.780
He left with, like, a cold card, an open dime,
885
01:10:14.355 --> 01:10:26.840
some swag, super excited. He goes on to Twitter. He tweets out. He's like, I just had the most positive experience with the National Bitcoin community. Like, it's made me completely change how I think about Bitcoin and how I wanna contribute to Bitcoin.
886
01:10:27.300 --> 01:10:29.480
And then he immediately got hit by, like,
887
01:10:30.020 --> 01:10:32.680
5 dozen responses calling him a shit coiner.
888
01:10:34.235 --> 01:10:35.215
Yeah. So,
889
01:10:35.995 --> 01:10:38.655
that that that's the reality of the situation.
890
01:10:39.435 --> 01:10:48.079
891
01:10:48.619 --> 01:10:51.119
people with a platform, people with,
892
01:10:52.315 --> 01:10:59.135
like, a voice like yourself, Matt, where it's, like, to some extent, like, I think what happened with toxic maximalism,
893
01:10:59.675 --> 01:11:01.980
if you will, on Twitter in particular,
894
01:11:02.520 --> 01:11:04.060
is, like, it stems
895
01:11:04.520 --> 01:11:05.820
from the right place.
896
01:11:06.199 --> 01:11:13.844
It stems from a bunch of intelligent people like yourself, like Tony, like Francis Pollo, like these guys who understood
897
01:11:14.625 --> 01:11:18.805
deeply the ideals behind why privacy and security matter,
898
01:11:20.080 --> 01:11:28.980
and and, like, the security model of Bitcoin. But I think what happened over time is that more and more and more people flooded into, like, the online space.
899
01:11:29.605 --> 01:11:31.785
The kind of message for, like,
900
01:11:32.485 --> 01:11:33.304
an actual
901
01:11:33.765 --> 01:11:34.265
articulated
902
01:11:34.725 --> 01:11:38.505
version of why it's important and, like, what you should do to contribute
903
01:11:39.349 --> 01:11:41.210
just kind of morphed into
904
01:11:42.469 --> 01:11:43.449
less articulate,
905
01:11:43.829 --> 01:11:48.170
and that's where we find ourselves today is this, like, I this ideal set
906
01:11:48.475 --> 01:12:01.050
makes sense, but the way that we're presenting the ideas around it doesn't. It's just a bunch of people yelling at one another and kind of killing off anybody that presents a possible future as a builder in Bitcoin.
907
01:12:01.429 --> 01:12:22.040
And I think it's a detriment to the space and the growth of the space, and that's why I really think the people with the platform and with the voice, it's, like, we need to, like, take that hit and, like, maybe get attacked on Bitcoin Twitter more often to, like, really put out the message that it's like, look, man, this this narrative, the way that we're presenting the narrative is no longer beneficial for the space.
908
01:12:22.795 --> 01:12:28.655
909
01:12:29.114 --> 01:12:30.494
I think Twitter incentivizes
910
01:12:31.034 --> 01:12:32.494
simplicity in the extremes,
911
01:12:34.300 --> 01:12:39.680
And I I would not go as far as saying that Bitcoin Twitter is a detriment.
912
01:12:40.805 --> 01:12:42.745
I think it's a massive net benefit
913
01:12:43.205 --> 01:12:46.105
compared to what we had in the past, particularly because
914
01:12:46.725 --> 01:12:53.520
there is reach among mainstream audiences rather than us just being in the Bitcoin Reddit or IRC or Bitcoin Talk.
915
01:12:55.260 --> 01:12:56.000
I think
916
01:12:56.835 --> 01:12:57.735
I think there's
917
01:12:58.515 --> 01:13:02.295
my favorite word, nuance. There's there's nuance here because,
918
01:13:03.795 --> 01:13:04.195
really
919
01:13:05.260 --> 01:13:10.240
so, like, another example is Rockstar. And Rockstar, Deb, when he came in, like
920
01:13:11.020 --> 01:13:15.375
and and came into the into the space in more of a public way,
921
01:13:16.235 --> 01:13:22.014
he got into a big argument with, I think, specifically Francis and about BTC pay and Litecoin
922
01:13:22.780 --> 01:13:23.280
support.
923
01:13:23.980 --> 01:13:31.920
And I defended Rockstar at the time, and but the thing is is, like I mean, Litecoin's a complete shitcoin, but the thing is is it requires
924
01:13:33.805 --> 01:13:34.865
there are malicious
925
01:13:35.325 --> 01:13:35.825
shitcorners
926
01:13:36.445 --> 01:13:38.705
that do not adequately
927
01:13:39.660 --> 01:13:40.480
or intentionally
928
01:13:41.020 --> 01:13:41.520
ignore
929
01:13:42.060 --> 01:13:43.440
disclosing trade offs,
930
01:13:44.380 --> 01:13:48.400
and do so in an unethical way. And those people need to be called out
931
01:13:48.895 --> 01:13:49.395
strongly,
932
01:13:49.695 --> 01:13:51.315
publicly, and routinely.
933
01:13:52.175 --> 01:13:55.875
There's also Bitcoiners that do that, and they should also be called out.
934
01:13:56.580 --> 01:14:03.800
And then there's there there are people that mean well and are trying their best and, you know, try to stand with, like, a relatively
935
01:14:04.255 --> 01:14:07.554
ethical code and and disclose trade offs here and there. And those people
936
01:14:08.175 --> 01:14:13.875
should be, you know, treated with with a level of respect, and, hopefully, they come and build on Bitcoin.
937
01:14:14.720 --> 01:14:17.620
But for most people, that takes too much critical thinking,
938
01:14:18.000 --> 01:14:20.420
and Twitter is, you know, incentivizes
939
01:14:20.960 --> 01:14:21.940
simple extreme
940
01:14:22.675 --> 01:14:23.175
comments.
941
01:14:24.195 --> 01:14:24.695
So
942
01:14:24.995 --> 01:14:28.535
if you do the odds if you do the odds, if you're an asshole,
943
01:14:30.240 --> 01:14:31.860
if you're if you're an asshole
944
01:14:32.160 --> 01:14:34.020
to the majority of public shitcoiners,
945
01:14:35.920 --> 01:14:37.860
most of them, you know, probably,
946
01:14:39.195 --> 01:14:42.335
I don't want to say deserve it, but probably had it coming.
947
01:14:43.275 --> 01:14:49.730
And it's good. And they'll they'll probably gonna block you right away, which proves the point. Right? Because they don't want any kind of dissenting
948
01:14:50.510 --> 01:14:51.410
opinion there.
949
01:14:53.470 --> 01:14:55.650
And and and there's a lot of gaslighting
950
01:14:55.995 --> 01:15:02.975
on on that side of things. But I I would not I would say Bitcoiners aren't immune to that either. We have a lot of Bitcoin so so called thought leaders,
951
01:15:03.980 --> 01:15:11.199
that basically took the lessons of 2017 and took the wrong lessons from them and thought, you know, the Bitcoin community should be more like a shitcoin community.
952
01:15:12.075 --> 01:15:16.095
953
01:15:17.115 --> 01:15:22.770
it I think the idea of, like, showing respect to the people who will also show respect, it like, that
954
01:15:23.230 --> 01:15:27.010
is maybe perhaps where I think we could try to do,
955
01:15:28.165 --> 01:15:35.145
a little bit better, but ultimately, I think you're right. Like, the the the way that it's just sad because Twitter is one of the largest
956
01:15:35.579 --> 01:15:38.079
platforms, if you will, for kind of voicing
957
01:15:38.860 --> 01:15:39.679
and sharing
958
01:15:40.139 --> 01:15:42.239
the the Bitcoin kind of message.
959
01:15:43.179 --> 01:15:45.655
So having a lot of it get really,
960
01:15:46.114 --> 01:15:58.890
kind of loud and noisy is is somewhat distracting, I think, but it's I maybe it's not a detriment. And then I think, ultimately, it just comes back to what you've already said with, like, how you did what you did in Nashville, which brings us right back to the focus on just, like, being,
961
01:16:00.230 --> 01:16:04.395
intelligent, calm, and collected people in real life and, like, showing the value of the community,
962
01:16:05.015 --> 01:16:09.195
963
01:16:10.550 --> 01:16:14.730
with the podcast, and I've kind of taken it over to my community initiatives,
964
01:16:15.110 --> 01:16:17.050
which is, like, the way this thing scales
965
01:16:18.015 --> 01:16:20.114
is not one person hitting,
966
01:16:22.094 --> 01:16:24.675
10,000,000 people with education or
967
01:16:25.240 --> 01:16:25.740
anything.
968
01:16:26.440 --> 01:16:27.340
It's really
969
01:16:27.880 --> 01:16:29.420
it's it's really individuals
970
01:16:30.520 --> 01:16:37.665
connecting with 10 people, 20 people, a 100 people, and then those people going out and connecting with 10 people, 20 people, a 100 people.
971
01:16:38.205 --> 01:16:39.185
And it's been,
972
01:16:40.205 --> 01:16:42.784
it's it's such a positive and rewarding experience
973
01:16:43.160 --> 01:16:44.460
seeing that in person.
974
01:16:45.880 --> 01:16:47.420
Basically, all these grassroots
975
01:16:48.200 --> 01:16:50.380
communities popping up around the world,
976
01:16:51.975 --> 01:16:56.875
and it's just this domino effect. Right? It's like, you show kindness and respect and
977
01:16:57.575 --> 01:16:58.075
acknowledgment
978
01:16:58.615 --> 01:16:59.115
to
979
01:16:59.800 --> 01:17:05.260
to other people, and then they go and and they repeat that, and then they repeat that. Right?
980
01:17:05.640 --> 01:17:09.885
981
01:17:10.344 --> 01:17:13.005
early on, because I was really hard in the paint kinda Bitcoiner
982
01:17:13.385 --> 01:17:14.445
for a long time.
983
01:17:15.225 --> 01:17:15.725
But
984
01:17:16.380 --> 01:17:38.670
I forget what we were talking about one time. Marty had said, like, you know, sometimes you just need to give a soft touch. Right? Where you just well, kinda like what you said, Matt. It's just like you talk about Bitcoin. You let them you inform them. You don't attack them. You attack the idea, and then you send them on their way. And then another Bitcoiner comes along the way and then gives another soft touch. And then it just kinda, you know, trampolines and and and becomes a thing, and they become a Bitcoiner.
985
01:17:39.290 --> 01:17:42.510
I think I think that's the way. I think if we all just give soft touches
986
01:17:43.155 --> 01:17:47.415
and educate and attack the idea, I think that's how we get them to become a Bitcoiner over time.
987
01:17:49.395 --> 01:17:52.215
988
01:17:53.130 --> 01:17:55.390
I I'm I'm strongly of the belief
989
01:17:55.850 --> 01:17:58.510
that we build the education and the tools
990
01:17:59.345 --> 01:18:02.005
to empower individuals. And then when those individuals
991
01:18:02.865 --> 01:18:08.325
finally realize that they have the need, because everyone does have the need for Bitcoin, they just don't realize yet,
992
01:18:08.940 --> 01:18:10.640
They will come and seek them out.
993
01:18:12.060 --> 01:18:12.800
And so
994
01:18:13.980 --> 01:18:14.480
I
995
01:18:14.940 --> 01:18:18.365
I have a love hate relationship with this concept of
996
01:18:19.325 --> 01:18:20.945
of orange peeling specifically.
997
01:18:23.325 --> 01:18:31.369
But because it does have its place when when you see that there's a a moment in time that maybe truly highlights the need for Bitcoin.
998
01:18:31.989 --> 01:18:35.365
But I think most people kinda just come to it on their own,
999
01:18:35.845 --> 01:18:37.945
and, those people are way more susceptible
1000
01:18:40.325 --> 01:18:45.145
to to be in it long term for the right reasons rather than for gambling or
1001
01:18:45.659 --> 01:18:50.320
quick riches. Like, the the the type of people that often are almost forcibly
1002
01:18:50.699 --> 01:19:01.525
orange pilled or aggressively orange pilled or the type of people that usually get wrecked in a bear cycle and disappear for 4 years, maybe come back later. So can I ask you a question, Matt? On, like, the
1003
01:19:02.179 --> 01:19:02.679
1004
01:19:02.980 --> 01:19:04.760
around that very idea,
1005
01:19:05.460 --> 01:19:09.400
like, what what do you think would be some, like, actionable ideas
1006
01:19:10.020 --> 01:19:10.520
for,
1007
01:19:11.395 --> 01:19:13.094
like, I think I
1008
01:19:13.395 --> 01:19:22.270
think I think you're right. I think it's gonna happen regardless and naturally, and people are going to find more and more that they, like, need Bitcoin, and and I think having
1009
01:19:22.970 --> 01:19:27.310
those tools and resources ready like a pleb lab for those who find they wanna build.
1010
01:19:27.685 --> 01:19:37.430
But beyond just creating the space and then, like, sitting around, what are, like, actionable ideas to help accelerate the growth of more builders in this space?
1011
01:19:39.750 --> 01:19:42.710
1012
01:19:43.830 --> 01:19:45.450
it's a slightly different
1013
01:19:45.910 --> 01:19:46.410
scenario
1014
01:19:47.075 --> 01:19:48.375
than, like, an average
1015
01:19:48.675 --> 01:19:49.815
Bitcoin user.
1016
01:19:51.555 --> 01:19:54.035
And and and that scenario is mostly
1017
01:19:56.980 --> 01:20:05.240
like, they're obviously already intending to build or or building in somewhere else. Right? And that's making it clear that there's an opportunity,
1018
01:20:06.875 --> 01:20:12.575
for them to work on something that maybe is significantly more meaningful than they're currently working on, but also,
1019
01:20:13.410 --> 01:20:18.210
that they could be very successful doing. Right? It's just it's it's a different demo than
1020
01:20:20.635 --> 01:20:24.014
like, let's let's be honest. Right? Like, if if we're in a hybrid Bitcoinization
1021
01:20:24.795 --> 01:20:25.295
scenario,
1022
01:20:25.994 --> 01:20:28.175
and we have 8,000,000,000 people using Bitcoin,
1023
01:20:30.050 --> 01:20:31.190
technicals aside,
1024
01:20:32.690 --> 01:20:35.910
like, what percent of those are actually gonna be builders?
1025
01:20:36.215 --> 01:20:39.594
And that's probably gonna be significantly less than a half a percent.
1026
01:20:40.934 --> 01:20:44.215
So so it's a very niche demo that that has
1027
01:20:45.030 --> 01:20:45.930
you have to have a specific
1028
01:20:46.710 --> 01:20:47.450
kind of
1029
01:20:48.390 --> 01:20:48.890
support
1030
01:20:49.350 --> 01:20:51.610
situation for those people. Right?
1031
01:20:54.105 --> 01:20:59.244
1032
01:21:00.025 --> 01:21:01.405
and and perhaps
1033
01:21:01.840 --> 01:21:11.380
road mapped out for Bitcoin Park and the other places springing up around the world, like, looking to create a a space and access to resources for
1034
01:21:11.825 --> 01:21:12.565
those technical folks.
1035
01:21:13.265 --> 01:21:18.805
It's just interesting because it's kind of like a almost like a chicken and an egg thing, right, where you're, like, talking about what percentage
1036
01:21:19.460 --> 01:21:24.520
will be builders when we're in a hyper Bitcoinized world with 8,000,000,000 people on Bitcoin.
1037
01:21:25.060 --> 01:21:32.185
But at the same time, it's, like, we don't get to an 8 1,000,000,000 people hyper Bitcoinized world without more builders before we get there.
1038
01:21:34.085 --> 01:21:35.065
1039
01:21:36.469 --> 01:21:43.130
We had Tony in the comments saying, I'm biased, but builders need stats. They already have talent, conviction, motivation, etcetera.
1040
01:21:43.675 --> 01:21:44.895
I agree with that.
1041
01:21:46.075 --> 01:21:47.295
Part of the reason why
1042
01:21:48.955 --> 01:21:51.935
I helped build, 1031 and Open Sats,
1043
01:21:53.250 --> 01:21:56.950
Two different sides of the same coin, really. It was just getting funding to builders.
1044
01:21:58.770 --> 01:22:02.450
I'm curious. I mean, you guys through you I guess, it was a partnership,
1045
01:22:09.815 --> 01:22:14.630
what were the takeaways on that? What was it called? BTC plus plus? What were the takeaways on that? What was it called? BTC plus plus?
1046
01:22:16.210 --> 01:22:23.405
1047
01:22:24.105 --> 01:22:27.405
It needs to be, like, kind of like where it has both ends of the spectrum.
1048
01:22:28.230 --> 01:22:34.250
Kinda what you guys did in in Miami where it has, like, the open source part, but it also has the the other panel part.
1049
01:22:34.949 --> 01:22:37.130
I I think there there's a need for
1050
01:22:37.745 --> 01:22:38.885
education focused
1051
01:22:40.065 --> 01:22:46.170
Bitcoin conferences, and I think we're gonna see that trend in 2023 for sure. I think there's gonna be a lot more.
1052
01:22:46.650 --> 01:22:47.210
I know,
1053
01:22:47.690 --> 01:22:50.190
Nifty and the team at Base 58 are throwing the one New Mexico
1054
01:22:50.810 --> 01:23:04.260
City here in December, so definitely go check that out. And then at some point next year, she's gonna throw the Bitcoin plus plus again. So yeah. It's Yeah. And, of course, we have we have tab comp that just happened. I think there's also
1055
01:23:05.360 --> 01:23:11.465
1056
01:23:12.245 --> 01:23:14.824
a place for these large, you know, 25,000
1057
01:23:15.125 --> 01:23:16.905
person festival type events.
1058
01:23:17.880 --> 01:23:19.260
But I think there's increasingly,
1059
01:23:21.000 --> 01:23:21.500
desire
1060
01:23:21.800 --> 01:23:22.300
and
1061
01:23:23.560 --> 01:23:32.975
and and and very and they end up being very productive, these these smaller high signal events. And, obviously, you guys have been focused on that. We've been focused on that at Bitcoin Park.
1062
01:23:34.155 --> 01:23:37.000
Parker and team have been on that over at the comments.
1063
01:23:37.620 --> 01:23:40.600
But I think we see more and more high signal smaller
1064
01:23:41.219 --> 01:23:41.719
events,
1065
01:23:42.739 --> 01:23:44.280
where people can have, like,
1066
01:23:45.215 --> 01:23:55.390
unbridled discussion with with with other peers. Right? Like, actually off the record conversations. So many so many of our conversations nowadays are on the record and essentially public.
1067
01:23:56.330 --> 01:23:57.550
And I know I say that
1068
01:23:57.850 --> 01:23:58.510
on air,
1069
01:23:59.130 --> 01:24:02.695
but it's great to have it's great to have a place where you can actually
1070
01:24:03.635 --> 01:24:04.454
talk without
1071
01:24:06.034 --> 01:24:12.660
necessarily the pressure of of of a a surveillance state and the pressure of, public eye.
1072
01:24:13.920 --> 01:24:15.060
1073
01:24:15.520 --> 01:24:19.875
like, just bringing it back to to PlaidLab. Like, that was one of the things that I really enjoyed
1074
01:24:20.175 --> 01:24:27.360
when I first got in there was just the discussions that we had among, you know, people that were in there from various different topics.
1075
01:24:28.060 --> 01:24:30.000
You know, sitting in the same room as,
1076
01:24:30.620 --> 01:24:31.200
you know,
1077
01:24:31.955 --> 01:24:34.855
Tony and and Paul from Voltage and Supertestnet
1078
01:24:35.235 --> 01:24:41.095
and, you know, everybody else in there with just, like, so many different skill sets and and experiences.
1079
01:24:42.740 --> 01:24:44.360
You know, being able to have those
1080
01:24:44.740 --> 01:24:45.960
kinda candid discussions,
1081
01:24:46.260 --> 01:24:51.795
especially for a newbie who was just kinda, like, figure his way out in this whole, like, Bitcoin,
1082
01:24:52.095 --> 01:24:52.915
like, space,
1083
01:24:54.015 --> 01:25:03.520
it was was huge. It was, like, it was fundamental to to my early growth anyway as a founder and as a as a Bitcoiner who was, you know, in the background for a long time,
1084
01:25:04.080 --> 01:25:14.935
and then trying to kinda, like, step in, but trying to ask questions and have conversations that, you know, could be had, like, off air in a in a face to face environment is is is critical.
1085
01:25:15.490 --> 01:25:17.990
1086
01:25:18.370 --> 01:25:20.550
just getting a little bit personal is, like,
1087
01:25:21.170 --> 01:25:24.775
it's been great to watch and see the growth of of companies
1088
01:25:25.155 --> 01:25:29.575
and, of, like, all of that. I mean, that's kind of the business we're selling.
1089
01:25:29.940 --> 01:25:36.280
But I think my favorite part about everything that we have here and everything that we've done here has just been to watch and
1090
01:25:36.980 --> 01:25:38.199
see the tremendous
1091
01:25:38.500 --> 01:25:39.559
personal growth,
1092
01:25:40.485 --> 01:25:44.585
of the people in this community. And I and I know for me personally, it's really
1093
01:25:45.205 --> 01:25:55.849
inspired a lot of my own personal growth. It's I've seen so much change in the community around me from from Carr and what he learned with you guys over at TFTC and RHR and
1094
01:25:56.405 --> 01:26:08.380
just all of it. Just it's it's been really tremendous to grow as, like, a family and to watch how we've all come up in in not only the space, but just in our own kind of growth personally, it's been great.
1095
01:26:08.840 --> 01:26:13.505
1096
01:26:14.045 --> 01:26:15.665
1097
01:26:16.205 --> 01:26:34.054
a coffee with somebody, over the this past weekend or maybe this weekend before, and we're kinda talking about that. And and, man, that that's, like, for me, the biggest thing, Matt. And, you know, like, I really care about the people around me, and I really want them to succeed. And, like, for me, that's that's all that really matters. I know that's kind of like
1098
01:26:34.514 --> 01:26:47.329
a a weird concept to imagine. The bear market it's the bear market cliche, like, the real gains of the friends we made along the way. Yeah. And me and Paul have talked about it. We're gonna record a pod at some point to talk about it more, but,
1099
01:26:47.965 --> 01:27:07.495
like, it it really is like, the Bitcoin price and all that stuff is there and it's in the back of your head, but it's it's not the motivator for me anymore like it used to be, in the early days. It's definitely the people and the impact that I could have in a positive way in their lives. I think that's the thing that really gets me up in the morning. You know? I know it does that for you too, Matt.
1100
01:27:08.435 --> 01:27:08.935
1101
01:27:09.475 --> 01:27:11.975
1102
01:27:13.790 --> 01:27:15.650
but that keeps me going.
1103
01:27:16.270 --> 01:27:18.690
The cool part about Bitcoin is that that's aligned.
1104
01:27:19.710 --> 01:27:20.210
1105
01:27:21.835 --> 01:27:32.620
1106
01:27:33.239 --> 01:27:37.660
1107
01:27:38.400 --> 01:27:50.655
It was mostly faces I hadn't seen. I spoke to freaks and people that I follow on Twitter and stuff that I just never met before. A lot of local Dutch people. The Dutch community was extremely strong.
1108
01:27:51.660 --> 01:28:01.505
1109
01:28:02.865 --> 01:28:07.430
1110
01:28:07.910 --> 01:28:12.170
But it was with an Amsterdam partner, and they were gonna throw the event regardless,
1111
01:28:12.950 --> 01:28:14.890
and those dates were locked in. So,
1112
01:28:15.775 --> 01:28:18.975
but, yeah, I was really disappointed not to go to TabConf, and,
1113
01:28:20.575 --> 01:28:21.315
that obviously
1114
01:28:22.310 --> 01:28:24.810
personally bothered me. I reached out to Tidwell individually,
1115
01:28:26.070 --> 01:28:28.250
before the information was out there publicly.
1116
01:28:28.710 --> 01:28:30.870
Tried to support him as much as I could, but,
1117
01:28:31.495 --> 01:28:32.795
that's always be
1118
01:28:33.175 --> 01:28:38.475
a a a dark spot on that event to me. But, the highlight by far was that we had so many
1119
01:28:38.870 --> 01:28:40.650
so many locals that came out,
1120
01:28:41.590 --> 01:28:44.790
that have never been to any of the American events, and,
1121
01:28:45.430 --> 01:28:54.045
that was awesome. And, also, it was a smaller event. It was a smaller event than the Miami event, and it goes back to what we were saying earlier. There was a workshop stage that was very intimate,
1122
01:28:54.680 --> 01:29:01.340
that was focused on helping people build in the space. BTC Pay gave a great presentation. Ivex gave a great presentation there.
1123
01:29:02.845 --> 01:29:07.985
So definitely wanna see more of that, and I think the team at Bitcoin Magazine is very much aligned in that regard.
1124
01:29:09.165 --> 01:29:12.880
So, I mean, I want to go off of what Carr said.
1125
01:29:13.900 --> 01:29:17.600
You know, a common meme in the space is that bear markets are for builders.
1126
01:29:18.540 --> 01:29:20.480
How do you guys feel about that meme?
1127
01:29:22.324 --> 01:29:23.545
1128
01:29:24.644 --> 01:29:26.644
So it's it's interesting because, like,
1129
01:29:26.965 --> 01:29:39.125
just like talking with normies, like, the the occasional Uber ride or or wherever I may be. And when I talk about the fact that I own a Bitcoin company, it's it's very common to be like, oh, that must be rough right now.
1130
01:29:39.585 --> 01:29:46.170
And I've kind of had this pretty quick response most of the time where it's like, actually not. It's been pretty good for business, like,
1131
01:29:47.030 --> 01:29:51.690
because I think one of the things that at least with what we're doing that we've found is that, like,
1132
01:29:52.045 --> 01:29:55.105
it's actually a lot easier to find good talent,
1133
01:29:56.925 --> 01:30:07.120
in that in that bear market because there's so much less noise. And when money is not, like, sloshing around and frothy and everybody has access to it, you tend to find
1134
01:30:07.695 --> 01:30:14.594
exactly what we are looking for, and what we tend to look for is disciplined leadership and a dedicated team.
1135
01:30:15.320 --> 01:30:15.820
And,
1136
01:30:16.360 --> 01:30:18.699
those two things are really easy to find
1137
01:30:19.559 --> 01:30:30.375
when it's a bear market because, like, there's no money, and they're still sitting there grinding it out day in and day out with a passion. So I think I think it's true. I think it seems to be, like, an accurate statement.
1138
01:30:32.170 --> 01:30:40.485
1139
01:30:41.585 --> 01:30:47.765
You know, it's been the last few months of just been, you know, head down, grinding hard, like, trying to get a lot of work done.
1140
01:30:49.880 --> 01:30:51.099
And, you know, that's
1141
01:30:51.880 --> 01:31:05.085
there's probably a lot of companies that are going through tough times right now. I mean, we know that in the mining space for sure, but there's probably other big coin companies as well. I mean, I I guess I was lucky enough and that I managed to to raise a small pre seed round, like, just before the kinda
1142
01:31:05.400 --> 01:31:10.940
deep bear market set in. So, you know, it it gave me that runway to, like, to to start building,
1143
01:31:11.240 --> 01:31:13.795
but I I see it everywhere. I certainly see it a lot
1144
01:31:16.355 --> 01:31:17.815
from a lot of the other founders in PlubLab. They're doing the same thing.
1145
01:31:18.435 --> 01:31:22.349
And one thing I wanted to touch on as well is that, you know, you
1146
01:31:22.730 --> 01:31:25.790
Matt, you mentioned, like, Michael Atwood from Oshi earlier.
1147
01:31:27.290 --> 01:31:28.910
You know, one of the things that,
1148
01:31:29.395 --> 01:31:35.574
you know, I talk a lot to Michael about, and I know he's super passionate about, is just that, like, the interfounder
1149
01:31:36.910 --> 01:31:38.370
collaboration as well.
1150
01:31:39.390 --> 01:32:05.965
I mean, I don't know if this is, like, a normal thing in in founder worlds in, like, you know, Fintech or or any other, like, you know, industry that that goes on. But we we just tend to talk a lot about how we can actually help each other's company. How we can actually, like, you know, collaborate and build together and build tools that one person can use. And, oh, you need this? Well, maybe if I build it into my platform, we can link together, and then we can, like, give your users this added benefit and this experience.
1151
01:32:06.344 --> 01:32:10.284
And there's a lot of collaboration between us to try and figure out how we can
1152
01:32:10.640 --> 01:32:13.060
streamline and optimize our work,
1153
01:32:14.400 --> 01:32:24.455
you know, particularly so that we're not, like, repeating things and and doing the same things over and over. If one founder can do one thing to help another founder, like, we always do it, and we have a lot of those conversations.
1154
01:32:25.395 --> 01:32:27.495
So that's one thing that that I noticed,
1155
01:32:28.220 --> 01:32:33.180
within it as well, which I I just thought was was really curious to me being a first time founder, but I think it's,
1156
01:32:33.980 --> 01:32:36.320
it's huge, and and I love that aspect of it.
1157
01:32:36.655 --> 01:32:38.755
1158
01:32:39.855 --> 01:32:40.595
We had,
1159
01:32:43.215 --> 01:32:47.460
our venture fund 1031, we hosted all of our founding teams,
1160
01:32:49.680 --> 01:32:52.640
for a private retreat where they can collaborate. And,
1161
01:32:53.925 --> 01:32:54.745
in the van,
1162
01:32:55.045 --> 01:33:00.825
John and Michael were sitting behind me, and they wouldn't shut up about collaborating on different things,
1163
01:33:02.060 --> 01:33:04.060
which was great to see. You just want to,
1164
01:33:05.500 --> 01:33:13.095
you you wanna see as as much collaboration as possible because a rising tide lifts all lifts all boats here in the in the Bitcoin space.
1165
01:33:13.795 --> 01:33:16.215
I would just add on the the bear market.
1166
01:33:16.595 --> 01:33:18.455
Bear markets are for builders thing.
1167
01:33:19.075 --> 01:33:22.739
You know, if you look back, most of the successful companies
1168
01:33:23.199 --> 01:33:26.739
have, you know, either grown in a bear market
1169
01:33:27.455 --> 01:33:31.554
or were straight up launched in a bear market. But I would say
1170
01:33:31.935 --> 01:33:33.715
that it's a little bit of
1171
01:33:34.094 --> 01:33:35.235
selection bias
1172
01:33:35.790 --> 01:33:37.170
because bear markets
1173
01:33:37.869 --> 01:33:38.369
destroy
1174
01:33:38.670 --> 01:33:40.050
the majority of builders.
1175
01:33:41.630 --> 01:33:46.655
And Bitcoin as it is is a survival of the fittest kind of game, and it really
1176
01:33:47.135 --> 01:33:50.755
that the bear markets are when people realize why it's survival of the fittest.
1177
01:33:51.295 --> 01:33:58.670
So the builders that survive a bear market and keep moving forward and keep putting one foot in front of the other and and don't stop,
1178
01:33:59.690 --> 01:34:05.095
usually see massive success. We just don't see the ones that that the many that don't do that.
1179
01:34:05.635 --> 01:34:06.695
1180
01:34:07.235 --> 01:34:08.375
dedicated teams.
1181
01:34:08.915 --> 01:34:10.375
And, and also,
1182
01:34:11.235 --> 01:34:11.735
Matt,
1183
01:34:12.610 --> 01:34:13.830
the the
1184
01:34:14.450 --> 01:34:18.790
the retreat you guys threw sounded pretty epic. So Grant, Jonathan,
1185
01:34:19.090 --> 01:34:23.005
the rest of you guys, look looking forward to participating in the next one.
1186
01:34:25.864 --> 01:34:29.030
1187
01:34:29.489 --> 01:34:30.150
1188
01:34:31.730 --> 01:34:32.789
1189
01:34:33.090 --> 01:34:34.070
that kind of,
1190
01:34:34.449 --> 01:34:35.510
just really quickly,
1191
01:34:36.435 --> 01:34:41.095
it was something that I think it kinda just brings up a couple of points. I mean, Matt, you mentioned earlier about,
1192
01:34:41.475 --> 01:34:44.055
you know, when we're talking about conferences and,
1193
01:34:44.570 --> 01:34:55.295
you know, there is a place for the bigger public events, but sometimes the smaller high signal events are, you know, are where, you know, a lot of stuff gets, discussed and and progress gets made.
1194
01:34:55.755 --> 01:34:59.705
That event, 1031 event you're talking about was definitely one of those.
1195
01:35:00.960 --> 01:35:08.500
But I just wanted to mention quickly as well is that, you know, seeing as we're talking about the the builder builder mentality in in in the bear market,
1196
01:35:09.475 --> 01:35:24.040
I think a lot of that wouldn't happen without folks like yourself on 1031 as well, who have that, you know, Bitcoin only ethos and and have that low time preference support for bitcoin vendors. So I definitely just wanted to mention that and say I, on a personal level,
1197
01:35:24.980 --> 01:35:26.120
you know, absolutely,
1198
01:35:26.785 --> 01:35:35.364
like, stoked that there are funds like that available for for founders like myself who who have that same ethos and and will, under
1199
01:35:35.770 --> 01:35:39.630
no circumstance talk to any shitcoin VC or Fiat VC.
1200
01:35:40.570 --> 01:35:43.550
And that makes it really hard when you're trying to raise money.
1201
01:35:44.245 --> 01:35:51.545
Like, there's no way in hell I'm gonna have Zap rights logo on a on a VC portfolio page besides some, like, defi shitcoin program.
1202
01:35:53.550 --> 01:36:02.264
So, you know, having having you guys there and and there's there's plenty of others. I think I think Vivek or or somebody else put out a thread, actually, the other day about Bitcoin only,
1203
01:36:02.645 --> 01:36:03.465
like, VCs.
1204
01:36:04.565 --> 01:36:14.280
And there was a good, like, 15, 20, or or more that kept getting added in the thread. And, like, it it's amazing to see. It's great. And it like, you know, talking about their market build is like that wouldn't happen without,
1205
01:36:14.820 --> 01:36:18.969
you know, 1031 and other Bitcoin only funds. So it's certainly Well
1206
01:36:19.469 --> 01:36:24.915
1207
01:36:25.855 --> 01:36:29.810
a lot of growth in that space. And it's also why I launched OpenSats,
1208
01:36:32.030 --> 01:36:33.730
for tax deductible no
1209
01:36:35.630 --> 01:36:43.745
tax deductible no fee grants to open source contributors, no strings attached. Also 1031, we also do open source grants with no strings attached.
1210
01:36:44.360 --> 01:36:46.460
So just more funding in the space is great.
1211
01:36:47.400 --> 01:36:49.160
I I do think it's,
1212
01:36:49.719 --> 01:36:50.780
also gonna be,
1213
01:36:52.565 --> 01:36:56.905
could be a long bear market for a lot of a lot of those funds as well.
1214
01:36:57.845 --> 01:37:02.570
But I I hope to see many of them succeed alongside us. What were you saying, Kyle?
1215
01:37:03.110 --> 01:37:11.745
1216
01:37:12.205 --> 01:37:20.840
like, the the guys like Grant and Jonathan, I've had several conversations back and forth with them. And I I told Grant myself personally many a times, I think,
1217
01:37:21.220 --> 01:37:21.720
is,
1218
01:37:22.455 --> 01:37:23.195
like, outlines
1219
01:37:23.655 --> 01:37:34.560
in his investment thesis that have that have been put out in the public many times over, they they resonate so closely with the way that we kind of view things here at PubLab, and I think,
1220
01:37:35.179 --> 01:37:39.199
it's it's just really cool to see that the the the kind of
1221
01:37:39.575 --> 01:37:44.875
focus on and the understanding of where this thing seems to be trending. It's, like, so,
1222
01:37:45.735 --> 01:37:50.900
it seems to be very unifying in, like, a in, like, a direction, and I think that's that's great because,
1223
01:37:51.760 --> 01:37:57.940
the more focused we can get in that direction unified together, I think the more powerful we'll be.
1224
01:38:02.255 --> 01:38:02.755
1225
01:38:03.535 --> 01:38:05.055
So, boys, we're at,
1226
01:38:05.455 --> 01:38:07.235
the hour 40 minute mark.
1227
01:38:09.670 --> 01:38:15.675
I wanna reiterate that, this was a conversation a long time in the making, and I expect that it's
1228
01:38:15.994 --> 01:38:17.534
just the start of many conversations.
1229
01:38:19.915 --> 01:38:29.630
So we don't have to feel like we've gotten everything in here. But I I think it's been a pretty fantastic conversation. I hope the freaks have enjoyed it. Do you have anything else you guys wanna touch on before we wrap it?
1230
01:38:30.330 --> 01:38:32.590
1231
01:38:35.285 --> 01:38:36.185
1232
01:38:36.805 --> 01:38:40.025
one thing that I always like to to finish up conversations on,
1233
01:38:41.250 --> 01:38:46.230
because it's just been so important to me, and I mentioned it at at UTU recently as well,
1234
01:38:47.489 --> 01:38:51.735
is just is just really if you're any kind of a Bitcoin
1235
01:38:52.035 --> 01:38:56.135
founder or or pleb that just wants to kinda get involved in any way,
1236
01:38:57.080 --> 01:39:12.054
Like, the like, Bitcoin Twitter's great. All these online communities are great, but the only real way to to, like, move forward and make meaningful progress is, like, just getting in amongst it in the Bitcoin community face to face, going to meetups, going to conferences, going to events, hackathons, workshops,
1237
01:39:13.450 --> 01:39:23.625
and just, like, you know, walking into places like Pleb Lab and saying, hey. I'm a Bitcoiner. Can I just park here for a day and work and have some conversations? And you never know what might come out of it.
1238
01:39:24.644 --> 01:39:41.335
So massive fan of the community building aspect of of what PlubLab is doing and just encourage a lot more people to to really take advantage of that. If it's not available somewhere close to you, then start it up. Make it available. It's it's easy to do. There's a road map for it,
1239
01:39:41.815 --> 01:39:43.275
and it it it provides
1240
01:39:43.655 --> 01:39:44.875
immense benefits,
1241
01:39:45.414 --> 01:39:46.474
to to everybody.
1242
01:39:46.780 --> 01:39:50.000
So, definitely a fan of the in person community meetings.
1243
01:39:50.700 --> 01:39:54.560
1244
01:39:55.505 --> 01:40:09.030
1245
01:40:09.570 --> 01:40:23.730
inclined, you're thinking about trying to start a start up, it there's never been a better time to go out and do that. Whether it be Pleb Lab or the growing number of people focused on the acceleration of Bitcoin startups.
1246
01:40:24.270 --> 01:40:24.770
There's
1247
01:40:25.790 --> 01:40:35.804
so many resources out there, and there are so many people who want to help you along your journey. So if if you're thinking about it, I would say my final thought is just go do it.
1248
01:40:37.360 --> 01:40:39.780
1249
01:40:40.240 --> 01:40:41.600
1250
01:40:42.320 --> 01:40:47.695
if you're if you're a Bitcoiner that has any skill set whatsoever and you're looking to get plugged in,
1251
01:40:48.235 --> 01:40:51.195
come to PlugLab, come to Bitcoin Park, come to these places, and,
1252
01:40:51.810 --> 01:41:10.054
you know, you'll get connected, and you can use that as a as a springboard, as a platform to really get your name out there. I see BTC retriever in the comments. He says, much love to the pubs at ClubLab. He's somebody that we've helped, you know, just through the the thing that we built here. And then, also, I got a fun fact for you, Matt. You ready for this? I love fun facts.
1253
01:41:10.670 --> 01:41:12.050
It's, Noster November.
1254
01:41:12.990 --> 01:41:17.550
1255
01:41:18.030 --> 01:41:18.770
1256
01:41:19.105 --> 01:41:20.725
I'm on Thomas and Enigma.
1257
01:41:21.265 --> 01:41:25.205
1258
01:41:26.200 --> 01:41:36.135
1259
01:41:37.075 --> 01:41:41.335
He made the domicem. A lot of us here inside ClubLab were super excited about Nostra.
1260
01:41:42.510 --> 01:41:44.590
We got some guys trying to kill it and attack it.
1261
01:41:46.350 --> 01:41:53.665
There's other guys that are trying to build on it. It's a it's a lot of fun, and it's gonna be really interesting to see if we can really make Nostra take off here,
1262
01:41:54.284 --> 01:42:02.050
and help it grow much faster if we all stay on Nostra for the whole whole November. So yeah. Well, we love Noster here at dispatch.
1263
01:42:02.989 --> 01:42:08.925
1264
01:42:10.264 --> 01:42:14.925
with both Fiat Jaf and JB 55, 2 of the main guys behind Noster.
1265
01:42:15.545 --> 01:42:17.485
So definitely go check that out.
1266
01:42:19.050 --> 01:42:20.750
I want to thank
1267
01:42:21.690 --> 01:42:25.310
Car, Kyle, and John, our wonderful guests, for joining us again.
1268
01:42:26.055 --> 01:42:27.195
I want to thank
1269
01:42:27.655 --> 01:42:32.075
all the freaks who continue to support the show, whether that's joining in the live chat,
1270
01:42:32.455 --> 01:42:38.130
joining in the constant matrix chat, supporting the show through streaming sets, whether that's on fountain,
1271
01:42:39.070 --> 01:42:42.690
Breeze, or one of the other podcasting 2.0 apps,
1272
01:42:43.005 --> 01:42:47.105
or supporting through a BTC pay server. And once again, supporting by sharing
1273
01:42:48.045 --> 01:42:53.420
sharing the show, sharing dispatch with your friends and family, subscribing on your favorite platform.
1274
01:42:54.280 --> 01:42:56.940
I really do appreciate it. You guys keep me going.
1275
01:42:57.400 --> 01:43:03.295
I have great shows lined up, really great conversations lined up for dispatch in the coming weeks,
1276
01:43:05.275 --> 01:43:08.510
including one with Barack over the most recent LND bug.
1277
01:43:09.070 --> 01:43:10.909
So it should be a fun time, and,
1278
01:43:12.349 --> 01:43:22.405
don't let anyone tell you that, dispatch is dying or value for value doesn't work. We're gonna prove them wrong. So So I love you all. Stay humble, Stack Sats. Peace. Thanks for having us, dude.
1279
01:43:23.505 --> 01:43:24.244
Thank you.
1280
01:43:24.625 --> 01:43:25.125
