March 29, 2022
CD60: building a bitcoin circular economy with @Dooowta, @BrainHarrington, and @5antoshernandez
EPISODE: 60
BLOCK: 729598
PRICE: 2093 sats per dollar
TOPICS: bitcoin circular economy, privacy, the power of meetups, onboarding local merchants, kyc tradeoffs, buying a laundromat and using it to stack sats
https://citadeldispatch.com/cd60
@Dooowta: https://twitter.com/@Dooowta
@BrainHarrington: https://twitter.com/@BrainHarrington
@5antoshernandez: https://twitter.com/@5antoshernandez
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00:01 - Russia accepting Bitcoin for energy resources
00:20 - Crypto's role in investment decisions
01:14 - Benefits and concerns around crypto
46:10 - Account cancellation risks with payment processors
46:34 - Privacy guarantees with Lightning payments
47:50 - Issues with Lightning privacy and memo/note pub key
48:16 - Sender and receiver privacy in Lightning payments
49:00 - Benefits of businesses accepting Bitcoin
51:09 - Privacy perspective of spending with credit card, cash, and Bitcoin
52:53 - Using Bitcoin as base money and personal finance benefits
54:21 - Improving transaction flows and saving time with Lightning payments
56:34 - Different approaches to entering and exiting the Bitcoin circular economy
59:03 - Using Bitcoin in the gig economy and the potential impact
01:09:00 - The role of Bitcoin meetups in driving adoption and education
01:26:45 - The success of a Bitcoin block party in Austin and the power of grassroots efforts
01:31:15 - Bitcoin adoption by local politicians and community organizers
01:32:02 - Using Oshi app to onboard businesses and earn rewards
01:33:20 - Potential impact of major terminals accepting Bitcoin payments
01:39:40 - Benefits of Bitcoin rewards and loyalty programs for businesses
01:41:16 - Bitcoiners acquiring fiat businesses for Satoshis
01:44:02 - Importance of grassroots Bitcoin adoption and community building
WEBVTT
NOTE
Transcription provided by Podhome.fm
Created: 3/17/2024 4:28:16 PM
Duration: 6731.834
Channels: 1
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Couldn't get through an interview without asking about crypto, but in particular, Russia just said that they would accept
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Bitcoin as a payment,
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for
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their energy,
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resources.
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What does that say to you about where we are in the crypto conversation?
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Well, crypto has obviously
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grown by leaps and bounds, and,
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it's now playing a significant role, not really so much in transactions
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Right. But in investment decisions of lots of Americans.
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And,
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the president just issued a couple of weeks ago
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an executive order
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tasking us and other agencies
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with
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thinking about the regulation
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of crypto. I mean, you're less skeptical about it than in preview I mean, we've been talking about it together for a long time now, and I think you've had a skepticism about crypt crypto technology. I have a little bit of skepticism
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because I'm,
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there are, I think, valid concerns around it. Some have to do with financial stability,
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consumer
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investor protection,
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use for illicit transactions,
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and other things. On the other hand, there are benefits
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from crypto, and we recognize that innovation
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in the payment system
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can be a healthy thing. We would like to,
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come out eventually with recommendations
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that,
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will create a regulatory
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environment in which healthy innovation can get. And finally,
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Happy Bitcoin Tuesday, freaks. It's your boy Odell here for Citadel dispatch 60.
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If you're listening to this after the fact on the podcast feeds,
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that was
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treasury secretary Yellen talking about a Bitcoin circular economy on CNBC
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this week.
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Citadel Dispatch is an interactive live show about Bitcoin distributed systems, privacy, and open source software.
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I appreciate all the freaks who continue to support the show. Dispatch is a 100% audience funded without ads or sponsors.
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Could not happen without your support,
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keeping
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dispatch purely focused on actionable Bitcoin discussion and Freedom Tech.
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The easiest way to support the show is through podcasting 2.0.
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My two favorite podcasting 2.0 apps are Breeze and Fountain Podcasts.
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They work like a regular podcasting app,
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but you load them up with sats. You choose how many sats per minute
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dispatch is worth to you, and those sats stream directly to my note as you're listening.
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Another way to support the show is through my BTC pay server, which is at sedildispatch.com.
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You can support with Onchain or Lightning.
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I also have a BIP 47 payment code and associated
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samurai pay NIM, which you can pay from
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Sparrow Wallet or Samurai Wallet.
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You can also find that on civil dispatch.com.
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Hopefully, other wallets will join soon.
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Dispatch is broadcast on Twitch, Twitter, and Bitcoin TV.
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Bitcoin TV holds all the video archives.
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You can also find all the audio archives on your favorite podcast app. It doesn't have to be a podcasting 2.0 app. I've heard some issues
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with
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fountain podcasts. I've experienced it myself as well. It is definitely still early in development over there. They are listening to your concerns.
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Just to be absolutely clear, my single favorite podcasting app
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is antennapod.
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Hopefully, they will add podcasting 2.0 at some time. But if you're looking for a good podcasting app that's free and open source software,
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highly recommended Tenopod, works really well on Calix and Graphene,
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and just general Android phones. I don't think it's available on iPhone. And if you still wanna support the show in that situation, you can use the BTC pay server
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or my bit 47 payment code.
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With all that said, before we get started, I also have a special announcement
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that
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a bunch of us are gonna be in Miami, obviously, for Bitcoin 2022.
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I will be doing a live Citadel dispatch there
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on April 5th,
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the anniversary of executive order 6102 when FDR tried steal everyone's gold,
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which also happens to be Satoshi's symbolic birthday. It'll be at 2 PM,
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same venue as bit devs right before bit devs, so it'll be
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that at for an hour. It's still dispatch for an hour, we open up,
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and then
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there's, like, a 45 minute little happy hour there, and then bit devs happen. So if you're interested in that, that's sidleldispatch.com/miami.
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I'm charging a 100,000 sats for that,
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includes entry and free drinks.
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So once I get that venue covered, I'm just gonna basically come in with, like, cases of beer
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and ranch water and maybe some regular water so people stay hydrated.
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And maybe there'll be a little bit left over that will go towards supporting the show, but I'm trying to keep it obviously as as low cost as possible. To you Fiat Maxi's out there,
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when I listed it at a 100,000 sats, that was about $42. Now it's about $48.
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So with all that said, we have a really great show today. It's focused on building a Bitcoin circular economy.
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A lot of you guys have probably heard me talk about this in the past.
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A key aspect of our threat model when we talk about Bitcoin and privacy
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is this whole idea of KYC onramps, these regulated onramps that are keeping
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extensive lists of Bitcoiners in our transaction history.
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Privacy tools help.
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Learning how to
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obtain Bitcoin without
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those burdensome KYC regulations that often put Bitcoiners at risk help.
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But long term, what really will help is a proper Bitcoin circular economy where people aren't buying Bitcoin. They are earning Bitcoin.
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They're not selling Bitcoin, they're spending Bitcoin. It distributes,
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us away from these central points of failure.
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So with that topic in mind, we have a great group of panelists that are been very focused on build making this vision a reality sooner rather than later. I personally think that,
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the circular economy is somewhat inevitable, but the question is, how long does it take us to get there? And and these
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these great dudes have been trying to make that reality
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way quicker than it otherwise would be. So
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first off, we have Brian Harrington here. Brian, how's it going?
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Hey, guys. Thankful thankful to be here talking about this. Number go up and payments go round
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are both both so important, and that's how we win. Let's fucking go. Brian is focused on
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building,
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you know, helping grow the Bitcoin circular economy in Southern California.
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We have Santos here,
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from Chamber of Satoshi
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focused on building the Bitcoin circular economy in Arizona. How's it going, Santos?
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It's going great. Very bullish.
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I think there's more ways to earn Sats
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than ever.
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Let's fucking go.
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And we have Michael
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from Ocea app, which is a project that is specifically designed to to build out the Bitcoin circular economy. How's it going, Michael?
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Hey. It's going great, man. Thanks,
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thanks for having me. Yeah.
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I I can't wait to talk about why bcommerce
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is so much better than any other form of commerce out there. You just call it bcommerce?
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Bcommerce.
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For sure, man. The evolution of ecommerce? Absolutely.
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Absolutely. Make no mistake.
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Well, I love it because, for for whatever reason, this is the first time I've heard the term b commerce, but, I dig it. Do you have the website?
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It's been taken by some bank,
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but don't worry. Don't worry. We'll be able to buy it off from there. You're lucky I even asked. I was just gonna just
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throw a question at you and then just try and go to Namecheap and buy it. So
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Yeah. It's definitely b commerce. Everybody can use that. That's that's how we're gonna position ourselves to take over the world of ecommerce.
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So, I mean, let's get started here. When you look at let's start with Michael since,
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I don't know. Let's just start with Michael. Michael, when you look at, you know, trying to grow the pie and get more businesses to start accepting Bitcoin, you know, how do you frame it? How do you think about it?
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You know, what what is, you know, what is your framing here?
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Yeah. I mean, I I spent a lot of time, trying to figure that out. And what I learned over time is if we, like, just run-in there and we're like, hey. You should accept Bitcoin because, like, central banks and inflation and all of these other things, you know, privacy concerns, tyrannical regimes,
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most businesses do not care.
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They they don't. Right. Like, they have enough to worry about their,
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you know, labor costs are going up, if they could even find labor,
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their rents going up. They have a ton of problems,
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and how I frame it is, hey, like, how about we bring you
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more customers? How about you offer your customers Bitcoin rewards to actually incentivize people to spend
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Bitcoin,
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while also getting people to earn Bitcoin
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and getting businesses to
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potentially hold the Bitcoin,
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utilize
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utilizing the network and the asset if they want, or, they can utilize the network without actually holding on to the asset. It's their it's their choice.
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Do you see do most merchants
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so when you say they can utilize
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the network without holding the asset, you mean just immediately convert to USD?
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Right. Yeah. In this case, this would be as kind of a stepping stone for them, but most businesses are actually choosing to just hold the Bitcoin.
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But just having, I guess, you could say, like, that backboard as they're just dipping their toes into Bitcoin is really helpful.
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Just giving them that option to say, hey. Like, I know you have a business to run.
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Maybe you're you'd be interested in converting a certain portion of this to dollars.
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Again, you know, that's not what I recommend, but the reality is these businesses,
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have bills to pay and they have businesses to run. So they're still often having to pay these fiat based bills. So,
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it does help to have that option for them. And specifically with Oshi
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on the merchant side
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so, I mean, why don't you just go into real quick, like, what is Oshi?
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Yeah. So it's just a really easy way from the from the, you know, business side to introduce them to Bitcoin.
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We can get them set up with a Bitcoin payment provider of their choice, whether that's, you know, OpenNode or Ibex or even their own b t z pay server,
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on the slim chance that that these, you know, businesses
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have one of those.
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We can get them connected to our platform,
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via just invoice API keys, and,
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they're effectively able to promote their products and services by offering Bitcoin rewards. So if you wanna
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purchase your, you know, sell a coffee, you can say, dude, yeah, we're gonna do, like, 5% back in Bitcoin
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rewards
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if you purchase this coffee, you know, using,
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say, either your own Bitcoin lightning wallet or using strike or what whatever the customer wants to use. Right?
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We're definitely not here to to make perfect be the enemy of good.
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But from this what we're here for.
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Sorry to continue.
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Yeah. So so the the consumer
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is is then incentivized to actually want to participate in the Bitcoin economy because there is an incentive,
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because the novelty of payments,
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you know, you know, sending and receiving Bitcoin payments wears off over time, and then it's just effectively sending money regardless of how profound,
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you know, the Bitcoin network is.
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And
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the
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the,
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yeah, just that excitement wears off and then the
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ideology of Bitcoiners, you know, all over the world,
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that will only get us so far in terms of,
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you know,
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get making the Bitcoin circular economy go around. So So when I when I open the Oshi app,
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there's a map.
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Right? I guess it it pulls my location. There's a map, and then I can
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see which
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where there's Oshi merchants and how what they offer
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Sats back I get. Right?
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Exactly. Yeah. Now do you
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we've in general, on the show, we don't like location permissions. Or do you have any intention of monetizing
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our data or storing our data or location data?
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No. We have no intention of doing that.
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Okay. By all means, you can please turn that off if if you don't want it. It's only, you know, whenever we see a lot of people using the app because in general,
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like I said, the
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ideological,
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you know, users and the people that just wanna spend Bitcoin as a novelty,
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that will that will kind of run dry. You have to provide a really awesome experience for users. And oftentimes, whenever they open up the app for the first time,
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they're, like, trying to find businesses near them.
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And,
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if if they can't see that little blue dot on their map that shows where they are. The blue dot. Yeah. People freak out. They're like, where am I? Where are these businesses?
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Like, so
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we just added that as a as an opt in kind of thing. Fair enough.
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Do you see any merchants,
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are any of your merchants Bitcoin only?
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Yeah. So,
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there actually are quite a few of them. I would say most of them are just holding the Bitcoin.
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Oh, no. That's not what I mean. Like, are there any that don't accept
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credit card, that only accept Bitcoin?
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No. No. None of the merchants.
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Well, okay. In El Salvador, yes. We do have some merchants in El Salvador. You have Oshi merchants in El Salvador? We have some Oshi merchants in El Salvador. Yeah. We were kinda testing it out down there. Your fucking hustler.
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You you could you can buy, you know, fresh coconut water for, for a dollar 25 on Oshi. And this guy who's never accepted a digital payment before in his life, he's always operated on cash. He's been, you know, unable to participate in any sort of digital economy
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his entire life
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now can give you, like, 5% cents back on a coconut water to anyone in the world over lightning, and then That's awesome. Straight to his Bitcoin Beach wallet. I mean, the reason I bring it up is because you say, like, the novelty wears off, you know, from, like, the ideologues just trying to, like, spread Bitcoin.
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To me, like, the incentives to to spend Bitcoin
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are, I guess, with the addition of Ocea app now is threefold.
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It's
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because I'm looking for a more private spending option. You know? If I can spend in cash, then, obviously, cash is the most private. But if it's between credit card or Bitcoin, you can get a privacy gain from spending with Bitcoin.
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The second reason, which is probably one of the more common reasons, is the merchant just only accepts Bitcoin.
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So for instance, you know, if you wanna go to the Citadel dispatch live event in Miami,
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I do not accept fiat. So you have to either decide to send me SADs or not come.
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Same with, you know, the Nodl, for instance. If you wanna buy a Nodl node, you can't pay with credit card. You have to pay with Bitcoin.
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And then I guess the third reason is Sats back. I mean, everyone loves a good discount. Some of your discounts are very in very intense, whether I've seen, like, 40%, 50% discounts.
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I guess they're not discounts. They're stats back. Technically, it's
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a important nuance. But Right. I guess those would be the 3 main reasons.
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So that's why I asked that question.
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Yeah. And, also, what I was thinking is, you know, I don't know if you guys remember, but in 2013
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I mean, I don't know if you guys were around in, like, 2013 or 20 14, 2015. Before the b cash hard fork happened, a lot of the b cashers were very pro Bitcoin circular economy.
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And but what happened was it was all onboarding towards, like, BitPay and stuff where people were just
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where the merchants were auto selling for Fiat. And I I understand that there's a there's a point there in that, you know, businesses have Fiat expenses,
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but
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there's
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well, you know, one of the things I like about how Ibex and OpenNode work
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as opposed to BitPay is that you can have, like like, on OpenNode, they have, like, a slider. Like, you decide, you know, I wanna keep 70% of Bitcoin, 30% in fiat or something because I have my expenses.
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But I just felt like it wasn't it wasn't like the merchants were actually being convinced of, like, the benefits of of Bitcoin. They were just being convinced that, like, bit Bitpay could onboard them really easily,
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and they just it wasn't sticky or anything. And it was just, like, I was just, you know, why do I wanna pay, like, my AT and T bill with Bitcoin and just have them auto dump it for Fiat through, like, a regulated party that hates Bitcoin?
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Can I jump off that? Yeah. So, Brian, just real quick. Like, I forgot to tell you guys ahead of time. Like, don't consider me the host. All you guys Yeah. Should just jump in and out. Feel free to go. Yeah. Alright. Let me jump off that and hit just a few high things that, like, I wanna say.
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The
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the
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OG Bitcoiners
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were great at talking about Bitcoin.
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They were not great at talking about personal finance. Okay. Why does this matter for Circular Economy? And the why does this matter for Circular Economy? Because
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the then you're right. And when the b cash fork happened,
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we, I think, are just now only now realizing
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the the, like, social layer impact of that as well because we lost a lot of that circular economy and momentum. So super, like, in
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in my whole theme of 2022, I've been trying to just, like, leave all baggage behind and just start from where we are. Because the other thing was Circular Economy that, like, dude, the lockdowns radicalized me on Circular Economy. Like, I don't I don't appreciate,
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like, the way that we were, like, treated
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by, like, people in power. And so it really needs to be like a Bitcoin is happening right now in person and needs to, like, start creating,
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like and it is creating, like, value and freedom for people right now in person. But that's what kind of got me down this path of, like, I don't love saying, like, we're so early anymore because saying we're so early, I feel like just comes across as, like, very, like, apathetic.
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Like and because we do humans do have the ability to, like, impact the world. And so there's all that combined with, yes, the be cash hard fork.
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We lost some of that social momentum of those people that wanted to see Bitcoin replace fiat,
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like, in transactions. Okay. And then I can't fully, like, put it on the OGs of not being good at personal finance because what has happened since then? What has happened since then is that the apps have come such a long way. Like,
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the the apps have come so far to where if Stripe and Cash App are gonna continue to pay
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athletes
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to use the word paycheck and Bitcoin in the same sentence, and this whole pay me in Bitcoin thing is happening.
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Then when normies normies already
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will ask you when you talk about Bitcoin. Hey. Bitcoin's like, it's a big deal. It's taking over. Oh, yeah. Well, how can I spend it at Walmart? That normie is not trying to, like, needle you and be like, oh, it's never gonna work. Can't use it. They're not trying to say that. They're not asking for a lecture in Austrian economics. They're asking you to tell them how to do business outside of the dollar. Like, I think what's wild is that normies and, like,
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hardcore, like, Bitcoiners that wanna watch, like, Bitcoin or place fiat are actually more on the same page than we give them credit for. So, like, I don't think, like yeah. I just I think by normies being ready to, like, spend Bitcoin, they don't need, like, a lecture. They just need to you just need to tell them, like, when and where they could do it. And then just closing kind of a little bit again on this personal finance thing, it's the tools are now here for you to take 100% of your paycheck in Bitcoin, and the math is now here.
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The holding peer like, the the inflation
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per day on the dollar is is, like, closing the reasons for holding dollars at all, even for a week. And so what's wild and combined with number go up, obviously.
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But so what's wild is that,
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like, we think we think
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that by using dollars as our checking account and using Bitcoin as our savings account, we're savings on taxes, and we're also, like, causing number go up because we're not selling back for fiat. I don't I don't think either of those things are true anymore. I think, actually, in a weird way, by taking 100% of your paycheck in Bitcoin and then buying the foreign currency dollars when and if you need it, you're actually,
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like, you're then net sitting on more stats for more days per year, which is literally making your family wealthier.
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And none of that was there back in, like, any so the tools weren't there. The inflation wasn't there. Like, that's why this whole thing is, like, coming full circle.
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Because the tools are now here for you to 100%
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hold Bitcoin as your base money. The financial incentive is here to do it as your base money.
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And then
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then we can talk about, yes, all the game theory of the merchants getting to the point where it's like, hey,
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yeah. Like, due to COVID and due to the lockdowns and due to rising inflation, like, we accept Bitcoin now. Like, please pay with this or pay a higher price to use fiat. Like, so, but it because people love to say, people love to say it doesn't make economic sense to spend your Bitcoin, so just huddle your Bitcoin. Okay. But then what if there's actually the economic incentive to get paid a 100% Bitcoin
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and still eat the cap gains,
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because
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number go up is actually, like, going up enough to even cover the cap gains and your families ending wealthier.
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You wanna talk about the cap gains spending issue?
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Sure. Yeah.
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Why why don't you explain it to me? About it?
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So yeah. I mean, so Bitcoin is property. Like, so they're gonna they're asking you to pay, like, capital gains taxes when you swap it back for dollars. What I foresee happening is these Or when you spend it.
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Yeah. Or when you spend it. And I think what I think is gonna happen is
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so with Cash App wants to be your bank. NYDIG is partnering with Credit Unions. Strike wants to be your bank. Fold wants to be your bank. And there's this thing where it's like, what do we even use banks for? Wells Fargo, like,
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Chase, Bank of America,
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the really only thing we actually use them for is they're an ACH portal. We we all Bitcoiners need to learn about the ACH network.
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Like, in in because
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the ACH network is the only thing we use banks for. But now all these Bitcoin apps are now adding in like ACH portals to where you can receive your paycheck directly in Bitcoin. And so they also are going to all add, I feel like they're all going to add ACH out. So you're gonna be able to hold your Bitcoin up until the very last day that your mortgage is due and then ACH out into,
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your mortgage payment. And then that Bitcoin checking account will spit out
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a regular, like, report that then you plug into TurboTax. And so, yes, your
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Bitcoin and right now I'm, like, diving into the personal finance element of it. What I'm trying I understand that a lot of this will run counter to, like, some other,
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like, ways of seeing Bitcoin. What I'm trying to demonstrate is that from a personal finance
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on paper Bitcoin checking account perspective,
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you can beat the capital gains taxes and still end the year wealthier because I believe that's then a flywheel for more and more businesses jumping onto this, which then provides cover for those that are using Bitcoin in different ways to still shop at those same merchants. So it's still like,
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I, I have this whole thing in general that I actually believe that like suits and anarchists are, like, more on the same team than they give themselves credit for. So just understand that with a lot of what I'm saying. But so I believe the math is there for Bitcoin checking accounts.
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What's that? Sorry. I said fuck the suits. Yeah. Yeah. Yes.
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I believe the map is there I believe the map is there for you to use a Bitcoin checking account,
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and hold a 100% of your money in Bitcoin
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and become comfortable with either buying the foreign currency dollars with it or buying something directly with it. And I no longer believe that, like, buying the foreign currency dollars,
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causes the number to go down. I used to believe that, but I don't believe that anymore. My favorite part about, like, the whole argument about holding, you know, a 100%
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Bitcoin
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is, like, the argument on Twitter was between people who hold, like, 98% Bitcoin and a 100% Bitcoin, and they just argued over the 2%, like, vehemently.
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Everyone's just not sure, though. I'm not I'm not sure, though. Like, though there's definitely a mental
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like, I think I think,
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like, that last part of, like, paying your mortgage with it, I definitely think, like, changes brain cells. I think it changes brain cells.
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Fair enough. Fair enough. Santos, what are your what are your thoughts here? I mean, you've been onboarding merchants in in Arizona.
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Well, you know, what what have they said that you agree with? You know, how do you how do you think about it? And what do you disagree with?
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How how I think about it is, like, comparing it as a technology to the traditional banking system. I came from a background of banks.
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I worked at Bank of America in 2015 and then quit my job. I had discovered Bitcoin, and, you know, I didn't wanna work in that industry anymore.
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So I taught myself.
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So I did preferred sales prior to leaving, and it was mainly, like, tailoring the bank's benefits.
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So when you look at lightning,
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as a as a payment layer, it's superior nearly in every respect because,
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one, banks can shut off your account at any given time to conduct a financial review.
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I I worked in a risk department before that did that, and,
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you don't have to worry about that if you're essentially, like, managing your own funds.
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So I think about it from that perspective. Like, you you don't have to worry about your accounts payable nearly as much. And then you think about it from the payment processing side.
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You know, Stripe charges 3% plus 30¢.
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Square Terminal charges 3% plus 10¢.
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Even using, like, a lightning service provider, you can lower your cost to 1%,
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which is massive,
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especially if you're doing anywhere between $5.10
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transactions.
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That lowers it from roughly 9%, 10%.
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So then you also don't carry the risk
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of, like, fraud
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or billing disputes, which often as a merchant, even if someone's submitting a a legitimate report, those funds are taken out of your account anywhere between 30 60 days. It's just debited
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while the bank continues to to review that. So merchants understand this. They have to deal with this on a frequent basis. And if you can explain to them, well, you're not only gonna reduce your operating costs
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and keep more of the money for the value that you're producing,
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you're also,
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going to lower your risk dramatically.
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So that's kind of the way that,
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I think about,
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payments,
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using Bitcoin.
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Do you notice that, like I mean, specifically, what what you were comparing it to seems to be credit cards.
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I mean, like, I know in, like, the Austin area, there's a surprisingly amount of of no cash businesses. Do you guys see that,
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like, most of the time you're really Bitcoin's competing against credit cards and not cash, and cash has kinda just disappeared from the equation for the most part?
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Yeah. I think people,
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particularly like paying with credit cards because of the benefits associated with them, such as rewards, you know, fraud protection, those sort of things.
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And, I think with cash,
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like, it's a bit outside of the circular
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economy. I think of the circular economy as, like, earn and spend,
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completely in SaaS.
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And outside of it, you have Fiat to Bitcoin kind of conversions, which I think, like, what we're kinda experimenting with,
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one of our partners at the chambers of Potosi and the Arizona Bitcoin network.
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They they basically provide a SECO terminals,
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to merchants and meet up members with very low risk. So then
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people that have never,
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ex you you know, used Bitcoin,
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never really learned much about it, can now get onboarded,
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on chain or lightning with essentially,
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there's no KYC that's required. It's just a cash exchange. So I see that that then at that point, they can use cash to purchase Saks, which they can use, like, l n basically, it's an LNUR withdrawal and a receipt. They can scan and load into whatever their their choice of lightning wallet can be or have it sent to, like, an on chain address and then enter,
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the the circular Bitcoin economy. So that that's how, like, I'm imagining it and how we're setting up the Satoshi day, which is, an event celebrate,
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celebrating,
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a business beginning to accept Bitcoin.
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So I I I don't really see it competing
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as much with cash because then you can even,
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have your operating costs lower. But I think the problem with cash is the friction,
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that it has. So with lightning, the payment flow is also better. One of the worst experiences you can have and may a big complaint by consumers
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is, like, point of sale decline. With lightning, you you don't have to worry about that, especially, if you're using,
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a lightning service provider or you have a self hosted solution where you know how to do to do the channel management.
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So that that's kinda how I see it. Yeah. And then and I would just say, like,
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you know, for for 1000 of years, like, let's let's just say
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the past few decades has been an anomaly.
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Okay? Like, in terms of the the Internet spread it up, everything,
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is now digital,
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Payments are now digital. To participate in ecommerce, you have to have a debit or credit card, generally speaking.
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For 1000 of years, that was not the case. Right? Commerce occurred between the buyer and seller without any financial intermediaries, without any payment processors, for 0% processing fees.
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Settlement was final. It was instant. There were no chargebacks,
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right, unless you wanted to, like, beat the dude up after you handed him your money or whatever. So, like which is inherently risky. Today, people can just call up the bank for whatever reason they want, and they can charge it back.
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So my point here is that
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what
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Bitcoin, you know, and and Lightning specifically
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enables,
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at the very least, like, at the protocol level is for, you know, near instant, near free settlement. Now currently, we're using these different,
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third parties that are providing a valuable service. Right? Like, let's say, OpenNode or Ibex,
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you know, or or, like, you use Voltage maybe and you you spin up your own node there. Like,
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they are providing a very valuable service to help you process these payments. But for all intents and purposes, like, as we all know, Bitcoin is digital peer to peer cash,
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and we are reinstating that, like, right before our very eyes. And this is where I like to talk about this whole, like, b commerce, ecommerce thing.
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Like, most of the world cannot participate in any form of ecommerce, and even in the developed world,
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they barely participate.
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Like, the small businesses are getting fucked. Like, they have access to participate.
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They can use a bunch of different third party services to participate. Like, let's say, small restaurants, coffee shops, they could use
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DoorDash or Grubhub or all these things that are charging them anywhere from, like, 10 to 30%, let's say, just to participate in ecommerce because
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people aren't really going to their website. Right? They're not really going or reading their email blasts as, like, this
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single small business. Right?
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Anyway, with that being said, like, roughly,
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15% of all retail commerce
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is done online in the United States. That's it.
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15%
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of online
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of retail commerce is done online. 85%
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does not do not participate,
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right,
384
00:32:25.170 --> 00:32:25.990
in ecommerce
385
00:32:27.090 --> 00:32:32.835
or not know, obviously, 85% of retail sales Or 85% of the store. There's a brick and mortar.
386
00:32:33.215 --> 00:32:39.059
Let's just say, I would I mean, basically, with the swipe of a card or handing somebody cash, 85%.
387
00:32:40.400 --> 00:32:42.660
And this is, like, in the most, you know, technologically
388
00:32:43.039 --> 00:32:54.490
advanced country in the history of the world, arguably. Right? Right. I would think it was I I would think that there would be more ecommerce. I didn't realize that. Yeah. And then Especially after all the COVID policies and stuff just destroyed small businesses.
389
00:32:55.030 --> 00:33:00.809
Exactly. So what happened during that was, you know, in in 2020 I I don't know where it's sitting at now, but in 2020,
390
00:33:01.735 --> 00:33:03.275
ecommerce jumped up 30%,
391
00:33:03.655 --> 00:33:18.170
and businesses were forced to effectively, you know, pay these higher fees to participate in ecommerce because it's inherently more expensive as well to accept debit or credit cards online than it is to swipe the card in store. And this is where ecommerce comes in because for the first time
392
00:33:18.554 --> 00:33:21.615
ever, it's actually cheaper to accept an online payment
393
00:33:22.155 --> 00:33:24.255
online than it is in store.
394
00:33:24.635 --> 00:33:31.010
The settlement is near instant. It's near free depending on how you choose to go about accepting that Bitcoin payment.
395
00:33:31.470 --> 00:33:36.450
And in my opinion, this is going to be like this is b commerce. Like, this is going to revolutionize
396
00:33:37.774 --> 00:33:44.434
how we see ecommerce. There are people in countries that have never had access to debit and credit cards at all are now able
397
00:33:44.735 --> 00:33:46.195
to accept online payments.
398
00:33:46.740 --> 00:33:53.400
Like, it is going to be insane. And it's it's basically the reinstatement of a cash like, you know, money
399
00:33:53.845 --> 00:33:56.905
in the digital world, and that's, like, fucking exciting.
400
00:33:57.685 --> 00:34:00.345
Yeah. That is that that's a great way to put it.
401
00:34:00.725 --> 00:34:01.225
100%
402
00:34:01.525 --> 00:34:02.485
agree. One thing that,
403
00:34:03.300 --> 00:34:12.955
one of the merchants that we partnered with, Beal Beans, one thing that really resonated with them is they have all kinds of relationships with with farmers all over the world, like Brazil, Ethiopia.
404
00:34:13.495 --> 00:34:15.355
And one thing that excited them is
405
00:34:15.735 --> 00:34:23.250
they are now able to form a direct relationship. Like, their model is entirely, like, building customer relationships, farmer relationships,
406
00:34:23.710 --> 00:34:25.650
and that's how they differentiate themselves.
407
00:34:26.030 --> 00:34:30.674
So now they can use digital cash to send, you know, across borders
408
00:34:31.295 --> 00:34:31.795
directly,
409
00:34:32.895 --> 00:34:35.954
to their farmers. And now there's more ways than ever,
410
00:34:36.575 --> 00:34:38.355
to to be able to use
411
00:34:38.750 --> 00:34:44.370
that Bitcoin, and there's only gonna it's only gonna continue to grow. So now, like, they can own their relationships,
412
00:34:45.070 --> 00:34:48.715
and they can transact with whomever they want and maximize
413
00:34:49.175 --> 00:34:52.555
the value that they create. It becomes much more cooperative.
414
00:34:53.895 --> 00:34:59.420
So, I mean, Santos, that's a really interesting point. So, I mean, earlier on, Michael was talking about how this there's
415
00:35:01.000 --> 00:35:04.300
this there's this issue in this bootstrap phase, right, where,
416
00:35:05.365 --> 00:35:07.945
these merchants have fiat bills to pay,
417
00:35:08.645 --> 00:35:10.025
but they're receiving Bitcoin.
418
00:35:11.125 --> 00:35:11.625
Ultimately,
419
00:35:12.165 --> 00:35:17.869
the ideal situation is what you just described where they're actually able to pay their downstream suppliers
420
00:35:19.049 --> 00:35:20.990
Bitcoin for the supplies they need
421
00:35:21.805 --> 00:35:23.505
the services they need. Is
422
00:35:24.045 --> 00:35:24.545
this
423
00:35:25.085 --> 00:35:36.970
and and we kind of saw this in El Salvador because just the government mandated it, so all those businesses don't necessarily need to convert into fiat because all the other businesses have to accept Bitcoin, so they're able to pay their suppliers inherently.
424
00:35:37.585 --> 00:35:39.924
Was this something that you specifically
425
00:35:40.944 --> 00:35:48.190
set up with this merchant? Like, did you put them in contact with their suppliers, or was that just coincidental? Is that something, like, you think about connecting
426
00:35:49.290 --> 00:35:50.510
maybe 2 different
427
00:35:50.970 --> 00:35:51.470
businesses
428
00:35:51.930 --> 00:35:52.670
that can
429
00:35:53.164 --> 00:35:55.585
have basically have a circular economy with together?
430
00:35:56.525 --> 00:35:59.904
Is that a thing you consider, or is that just kinda happened?
431
00:36:01.150 --> 00:36:03.250
Yeah. That's something that we consider.
432
00:36:03.870 --> 00:36:12.335
That's something that Blake and I, the owner of Beal Beans, it's like a family owned, coffee roastery and and pour overs, and that's something that we've talked about,
433
00:36:12.955 --> 00:36:13.455
extensively.
434
00:36:13.915 --> 00:36:19.430
And that's something that really resonated with him is the freedom aspect of it and owning the relationship.
435
00:36:20.450 --> 00:36:24.310
It's pretty horrible to, to essentially go through, like, a wire transfer
436
00:36:24.875 --> 00:36:29.775
where the end you know, the farmer is losing out significantly on the value that they created.
437
00:36:30.635 --> 00:36:34.335
So it's really exciting to them to be able to then pay them directly.
438
00:36:34.700 --> 00:36:38.880
And we've gone over, you know, many different use cases in terms of, like, spending
439
00:36:39.340 --> 00:36:40.800
the SATs as well.
440
00:36:41.180 --> 00:36:47.194
You know, there there's more and more options that are being developed in terms of products. More regions are being covered.
441
00:36:47.575 --> 00:36:50.075
More open source tools that you can use,
442
00:36:50.950 --> 00:36:54.170
to be able to enable your customers to purchase from you.
443
00:36:54.710 --> 00:36:57.930
So I think that's kind of the the way that we've,
444
00:36:58.710 --> 00:37:01.055
discussed it and thought about it.
445
00:37:03.835 --> 00:37:08.655
I just want that's fantastic. I mean, I just wanna do a quick shout out to Anarcheo Crypto.
446
00:37:10.140 --> 00:37:15.040
I invited him on the show, but he didn't wanna dox his voice, so he's participating in our matrix chat,
447
00:37:15.740 --> 00:37:19.645
live while the show is going on. So I just wanted to say I appreciate him and
448
00:37:20.185 --> 00:37:21.965
glad to see him in the live chat.
449
00:37:22.985 --> 00:37:23.485
Brian,
450
00:37:24.320 --> 00:37:55.194
Yeah. Go ahead. I appreciate what he said too and was gonna reply to the comment. Yeah. If you want me to. Hit us. What what was the comment? Yeah. So Anarko Crypto makes a great point. He's and and there, as they're describing Bitcoin Circular Economies, they're saying, rent for cash slash Bitcoin without KYC. Build Circular Economies outside of the state. No government ID required for jobs, apartments, healthcare, etcetera. Cash in hand, gray markets already offer this. Bitcoin doesn't only fight the state's monopoly on money, but also it's monopoly on identity. Bitcoin uses synonymous public private key pairs for authentication instead of a state signed identity as with banking.
451
00:37:57.175 --> 00:38:03.120
So you have any comments first or I was gonna let you okay. So to go off of that,
452
00:38:04.060 --> 00:38:05.600
I agree with those strategies.
453
00:38:06.535 --> 00:38:29.525
I think those strategies will only work for a certain, like, certain sec like, segment of people. Right? And I think this is the classic case of the way I liked the way when Odell was the way that b cashers were trying to talk about circular economy back in the day or just Bitcoiners in general were trying to talk about circular economy back in the day versus kind of what I'm trying to see in 2022 is kind of this blended model of, like,
454
00:38:29.984 --> 00:38:47.525
there's going to be Bitcoin checking accounts. And I know, like, coming on to Citadel Dispatch and, like, being the Bitcoin bank account guy is, like, not a great like, that doesn't make me, like, the, like, awesome guest of the day. Like but what I wanna say is, like, people running having Bitcoin bank accounts and, like,
455
00:38:47.984 --> 00:38:48.484
the,
456
00:38:48.810 --> 00:38:54.910
like, financial incentives at the personal finance level to hold the Bitcoin bank accounts and still have them be able to, like,
457
00:38:55.290 --> 00:39:00.405
print off a statement from that and get a mortgage, like, with that bank statement,
458
00:39:02.465 --> 00:39:03.525
is those people
459
00:39:03.825 --> 00:39:16.214
are still shopping at the same places that Santos is onboarding and that Michael is onboarding. And so I also had this discussion on Twitter, like, back in the day when Orange County Bitcoin Network got our 1st taco shop on it and our 1st,
460
00:39:16.915 --> 00:39:19.095
burger place on it. Some people were saying that, like,
461
00:39:19.474 --> 00:39:38.425
oh, you know, if they're using, like, open node, like, I can't use my, like, non KYC wallet to, like, shop at OpenNode. And I was like, dude, I fully disagree with that. Or there was a reverse thing where some guys were talking about if a 3 d printed gun site is, like, running BTC pay server, they were trying to say that, like, oh, strike app isn't good
462
00:39:38.750 --> 00:39:48.485
because strike has KYC. And if they pay the BTC pay server, that's bad then for the, like, gun shop owner. And I was like, again, I fully disagree with that. Like,
463
00:39:48.965 --> 00:39:50.425
Bitcoin fixes that.
464
00:39:50.805 --> 00:39:52.825
Bitcoin fixes that. It allows
465
00:39:53.445 --> 00:39:58.185
like, the very fact that someone with a Bitcoin bank account through
466
00:39:58.710 --> 00:39:59.770
whatever app
467
00:40:00.070 --> 00:40:12.325
and someone who's fully, like, non KYC running their wallet and are their own bank from their phone can buy coffee together at the same shop that chooses to either run OpenNode or run b two c pay server,
468
00:40:12.625 --> 00:40:13.845
like, that's beautiful.
469
00:40:14.145 --> 00:40:18.280
Like, that's literally beautiful, and that's Bitcoin is winning. That's commerce
470
00:40:18.900 --> 00:40:24.200
happening outside of the dollar. Like, that is then the dollar is going to lose traction,
471
00:40:24.805 --> 00:40:32.025
and more and more entrepreneurs are then going to be able to say, hey. Sorry. Dollars are no longer accepted here because,
472
00:40:32.580 --> 00:40:41.705
you know, please step out of line and go use the Bitcoin ATM. It's like you're still not up to speed. And so that's that's just the reason why I'm, like, kind of bringing the personal finance today is
473
00:40:42.105 --> 00:40:44.765
that's that's the way I see it sending traffic
474
00:40:45.225 --> 00:40:46.925
to all these businesses we're onboarding.
475
00:40:48.105 --> 00:40:53.550
Yeah. That's a really excellent point. It's like there's there are different options for different degrees
476
00:40:54.090 --> 00:40:57.310
of, like, understanding and technical capability or relationships.
477
00:40:57.690 --> 00:40:58.165
It's
478
00:40:58.725 --> 00:41:04.265
there can be, like, different phases or levels to it if you kinda want to gamify it. You can start off with,
479
00:41:05.045 --> 00:41:05.705
you know,
480
00:41:06.230 --> 00:41:12.730
a custody wallet to some extent and then move on as you learn and go deeper down the rabbit hole and understand
481
00:41:13.375 --> 00:41:16.835
the different terminology, the technical aspects, the systems engineering,
482
00:41:17.295 --> 00:41:21.955
and move on to your own. And there are a lot of companies that are even making it easier and more frictionless
483
00:41:22.530 --> 00:41:37.275
to begin and explore that and to be able to start hosting or operating your own node and then to branch out to then even doing, like, a completely self hosted solution depending upon, like, the size and scale of your business and where you're conducting transactions.
484
00:41:37.815 --> 00:41:41.200
Obviously, if you're, like, an ecommerce business, you're gonna have significantly
485
00:41:41.500 --> 00:41:44.880
more traffic, and you'll need more resiliency in your notes.
486
00:41:45.579 --> 00:41:50.375
So maybe that, you know, the voltage voltage solution can be, like, fault tolerance.
487
00:41:51.075 --> 00:41:55.095
If your own cell phone solution fails, then you could forward your payment to,
488
00:41:55.609 --> 00:41:56.190
you know,
489
00:41:56.730 --> 00:41:56.890
another,
490
00:41:57.930 --> 00:42:05.375
note posted in the cloud. Or maybe if you're like a business that is brick and mortar or, like, literally person to person, in person,
491
00:42:05.755 --> 00:42:12.839
then, self hosted solution will completely cover all of your transacting needs, and you won't need to have, like, the same level of infrastructure
492
00:42:13.140 --> 00:42:13.640
requirements.
493
00:42:14.099 --> 00:42:17.720
So it's, like, amazing to Brian's point that these 2 different individuals
494
00:42:18.099 --> 00:42:32.430
all speak the same language, which is bitcoin. It doesn't, like if you look at, like, Zelle and Cash App, they cannot talk. They're not speaking the same language, even though they're still transacting in the dollar. It's essentially, like, not possible for them. But using lightning,
495
00:42:33.450 --> 00:42:37.309
and lightning address, it even makes it, like, even easier to do so,
496
00:42:37.835 --> 00:42:39.295
and speak the same language.
497
00:42:39.915 --> 00:42:43.295
The reason why circular economies matter is, like, the
498
00:42:43.915 --> 00:42:55.495
the gray market circular economies that already exist today on cash are not large enough to make a dent into, like, the establishment and clown world. Like, what
499
00:42:56.035 --> 00:42:57.735
what Bitcoin commerce
500
00:42:58.195 --> 00:43:07.050
available to everyone does and the mindset of Bitcoin commerce available to everyone does is it shifts everyone away for you from using dollars, and it creates an overlapping
501
00:43:07.430 --> 00:43:07.930
circle
502
00:43:08.230 --> 00:43:13.725
with the gray markets that are already there. And so, like, that's why I think, like, both
503
00:43:14.185 --> 00:43:15.645
anyone working on
504
00:43:16.265 --> 00:43:16.765
commerce
505
00:43:17.305 --> 00:43:20.445
in Bitcoin instead of dollars, I think is like
506
00:43:20.790 --> 00:43:25.210
that I I just think it's like the highest leverage piece of freedom, like, freedom
507
00:43:25.590 --> 00:43:31.815
things that you could do because you're physically changing brain cells and getting people to use a currency that they didn't grow up on.
508
00:43:32.435 --> 00:43:35.655
Yeah. And, like, I just wanna say, like well, first of all,
509
00:43:36.115 --> 00:43:39.970
tip of the hat to an r q crypto. He probably has, like, one of the best,
510
00:43:41.070 --> 00:43:45.250
bitcoin circular economies articles I've read to date, so definitely check that out.
511
00:43:46.680 --> 00:43:55.655
But I mean, like, Bitcoin changes people. Like, whenever I first got started on Bitcoin, like, I was doing everything wrong. I didn't know what the hell was going on. I I had, like, very little regard for privacy.
512
00:43:57.040 --> 00:44:17.730
And over the years, like, learning and understanding Bitcoin, like, it totally changes. Like Brian keeps the same, like, it changes your brain cells. Like, you're you're changing people's perspectives on things and letting people get into it, like, whatever way they're gonna get into it, but then, like, leveling up over time, like, becoming more self sovereign as an individual, like a consumer, as a business, and, like,
513
00:44:18.430 --> 00:44:20.664
leveraging the the the inherent,
514
00:44:21.125 --> 00:44:26.744
like, incentives of bitcoin, like, it's gonna be cheaper to do all of these things on your own if you're just willing
515
00:44:27.204 --> 00:44:28.265
to to, like,
516
00:44:28.730 --> 00:44:38.190
level up. Right? You're willing to learn about how to self host and about how to attain, like, KYC free coin and so on. Like and and, like, that's
517
00:44:38.715 --> 00:44:42.335
that's where it gets into the thing. Like, let's not let perfect be the enemy of good,
518
00:44:42.715 --> 00:44:43.215
obviously.
519
00:44:43.515 --> 00:44:46.495
It's like, man, people are gonna start flooding into this.
520
00:44:47.195 --> 00:44:47.695
And,
521
00:44:48.310 --> 00:44:51.690
like, I don't know, like, I'm just so bullish on how Bitcoin
522
00:44:52.870 --> 00:45:04.845
affects people. Like, the statists will inevitably no longer be statists. Like, the people that don't give a shit about privacy inevitably will. There will always there will always be statists, but, it's just gonna be dwindling
523
00:45:05.430 --> 00:45:06.270
over time. Right?
524
00:45:06.710 --> 00:45:09.369
Won't be using state money, but they'll still be status.
525
00:45:09.829 --> 00:45:09.990
I
526
00:45:10.710 --> 00:45:14.329
Yeah. There are people on Bitcoin right now that are statists, so I I don't know.
527
00:45:14.755 --> 00:45:27.260
I I mean, we definitely have I Bitcoin's for enemies. Bitcoin is for everyone. So there's gonna be people of all walks of life. And, I mean, if if if Bitcoin can't succeed in that situation, then it was doomed to fail anyway.
528
00:45:28.040 --> 00:45:34.434
But I expect it to succeed in that situation. I mean, there's a lot of good points made all around. I just wanna pull back a tiny bit
529
00:45:36.734 --> 00:45:37.954
on Brian's KYC
530
00:45:38.255 --> 00:45:38.755
comment.
531
00:45:39.970 --> 00:45:40.470
So
532
00:45:41.810 --> 00:45:42.310
you
533
00:45:42.770 --> 00:45:44.790
I I I agree with the premise
534
00:45:45.410 --> 00:45:47.590
that if a merchant is
535
00:45:47.945 --> 00:45:49.405
accepting via OpenNode
536
00:45:51.385 --> 00:45:52.205
or IBEX,
537
00:45:52.905 --> 00:45:54.845
and I have a no KYC stack,
538
00:45:55.210 --> 00:46:00.910
I can obviously continue I can use that infrastructure just as if the merchant was using BTC pay server.
539
00:46:01.530 --> 00:46:05.225
Now there's there's benefits and and negatives to the merchant.
540
00:46:05.525 --> 00:46:08.585
Obviously, the major negative to the merchant is is privacy,
541
00:46:09.340 --> 00:46:16.240
but also custodial risk. They can get their their account canceled just like they can get account their account could get canceled on
542
00:46:18.255 --> 00:46:22.515
their account could get canceled on, like, a PayPal or a Stripe or
543
00:46:23.694 --> 00:46:24.194
Square
544
00:46:25.375 --> 00:46:30.420
terminals or Toast terminals, whatever terminal the business uses, that is for Fiat.
545
00:46:31.840 --> 00:46:35.540
But let's go to the consumer side. Now on the consumer side,
546
00:46:36.255 --> 00:46:36.994
you mentioned
547
00:46:37.535 --> 00:46:38.035
specifically
548
00:46:38.895 --> 00:46:41.715
so with Lightning, what's nice about Lightning, first of all,
549
00:46:42.975 --> 00:46:44.355
to the freaks that haven't
550
00:46:46.160 --> 00:46:49.520
listened to the full sale of dispatch archives, I had a great com
551
00:46:50.080 --> 00:46:51.300
great, conversation,
552
00:46:52.320 --> 00:46:53.540
with Tony about
553
00:46:53.845 --> 00:46:56.665
Lightning privacy. I think it was episode 21,
554
00:46:58.005 --> 00:47:02.905
if you wanna go check out the nuances of Lightning privacy. But the the the on the
555
00:47:03.490 --> 00:47:05.190
big scale of Lightning privacy,
556
00:47:05.650 --> 00:47:07.430
the sender has a lot
557
00:47:08.130 --> 00:47:10.150
better privacy guarantees than the receiver.
558
00:47:11.010 --> 00:47:12.309
The so
559
00:47:12.695 --> 00:47:20.155
a lot of those pain points that, like, if you pay an open node and you potentially are are doxing yourself to a KYC merchant,
560
00:47:21.859 --> 00:47:24.520
go out the window because if you pay with lightning,
561
00:47:24.900 --> 00:47:26.440
the sender gets better privacy,
562
00:47:26.980 --> 00:47:30.280
except for one key thing, which is the memo
563
00:47:31.505 --> 00:47:33.045
and the node pub key.
564
00:47:33.505 --> 00:47:35.045
So you specifically,
565
00:47:35.345 --> 00:47:39.605
Brian, mentioned, like, supporting the 3 d gun community with strike.
566
00:47:40.160 --> 00:47:40.660
Mhmm.
567
00:47:40.960 --> 00:47:43.700
If that memo in your lightning memo says,
568
00:47:44.240 --> 00:47:47.140
you know, supporting the 3 d gun community or
569
00:47:47.494 --> 00:47:49.915
buying this Right. 3 d gun part or something.
570
00:47:50.375 --> 00:47:54.635
Strike, a regulated service, knows that. They also know the pub key you're paying.
571
00:47:55.175 --> 00:47:55.675
So,
572
00:47:56.990 --> 00:47:59.090
you know, Bitcoin can fix that,
573
00:48:01.790 --> 00:48:05.410
but the tools as they're currently set up, there's gonna be some
574
00:48:06.015 --> 00:48:06.914
issues there.
575
00:48:07.694 --> 00:48:14.115
People get their accounts closed. They're gonna end up on on unless they didn't think they were gonna be on, stuff like that.
576
00:48:14.640 --> 00:48:23.780
The person sending will. Right? But the receiver is the receiver able to block a payment from Striker or from Cash App and say we don't want the payment? No.
577
00:48:24.385 --> 00:48:27.105
Because, like, I donated, like, I donated to the,
578
00:48:27.984 --> 00:48:30.565
I sent money to the Canadian truckers through Cash App.
579
00:48:30.944 --> 00:48:35.329
Right. The guy knows that. And if if the if the government wanted to,
580
00:48:37.069 --> 00:48:47.615
if the government For sure. Put every American on a list that sent that money, you'd be on that list. Yes. Look. And that's so to me, that's what's so beautiful about it is that the the reliance is on,
581
00:48:48.235 --> 00:48:49.375
like, the
582
00:48:50.590 --> 00:48:54.690
the onus is on the sender. And so I think, like, by businesses,
583
00:48:55.310 --> 00:48:56.610
if a bunch of businesses
584
00:48:57.470 --> 00:48:59.090
start running open node,
585
00:48:59.685 --> 00:49:02.265
as as they will. Right? Like, it's opening
586
00:49:02.725 --> 00:49:03.865
the amount of places
587
00:49:04.565 --> 00:49:09.450
that no k y c people can shop. That's why I see it as, like, a benefit.
588
00:49:09.750 --> 00:49:10.250
Right.
589
00:49:11.910 --> 00:49:13.770
Right. I agree on that point.
590
00:49:15.825 --> 00:49:20.645
No. I mean, that makes a lot of sense, and that's it's extremely powerful because it's an open monitoring network.
591
00:49:21.185 --> 00:49:26.020
Yeah. And that's what makes the pitch like, what's so amazing is the pitch
592
00:49:26.720 --> 00:49:31.300
do pitching businesses is is so much easier than it, like, than it used to be already.
593
00:49:36.315 --> 00:49:37.695
Yeah. I mean, I I have
594
00:49:38.555 --> 00:49:39.535
I have businesses.
595
00:49:40.040 --> 00:49:46.620
I I didn't know if you were pausing there, Brian. Or No. Go. Go. Go. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I have businesses where I walk in,
596
00:49:47.214 --> 00:49:51.155
and I'm like, hey, do you wanna, like, offer Bitcoin rewards to your customers? And some of them, like,
597
00:49:51.535 --> 00:49:54.994
granted, this doesn't happen often. It happens often enough to where they're like,
598
00:49:55.710 --> 00:50:02.130
hey, like, I've actually been meaning or wanting to get involved with Bitcoin, and I just didn't know how. Like, nobody's
599
00:50:02.835 --> 00:50:05.735
talked with me about it yet. Like, I didn't know where to get started.
600
00:50:06.035 --> 00:50:49.410
And, like, am I gonna get them started on a BTC pay server? No. Like, they they don't know how this works at all. Am I gonna get them started with, like, Ibex or OpenNode? Yeah. And and as they go through this journey, like, they're gonna level up and, like so, yeah, it's getting so much easier. Yeah, dude. Okay. And I thought of what I wanna say because you're it's getting so much easier on your side. And then the reason why I'm coming in, like, so hot talking about the personal finance and that stuff today is because what's so annoying to me is back when we did our first taco shop, just getting hit with the, like, man, like, what about cap gains? Ma, like, don't we have to huddle? Like, what'll like, all this stuff or whatever. And what's enjoying is when you do get someone excited about it and they are like, hey. I've been looking for a way to get involved. And then there's just no Bitcoiners in that community,
601
00:50:49.710 --> 00:51:00.675
like or in that place that are, like, up to speed on why it makes sense from personal finance perspective. And as Odell goes about, like, the privacy perspective to use Bitcoin as your money.
602
00:51:00.990 --> 00:51:05.250
Like, this is good. Having a restaurant in your town accepting Bitcoin
603
00:51:05.630 --> 00:51:12.795
is good, and the time is now for this and the time's, like, ready for all this. Let me be clear here on the privacy perspective.
604
00:51:14.695 --> 00:51:16.795
You know, if you spend with credit card,
605
00:51:17.250 --> 00:51:27.785
it's I mean, it's a hot like, if you spend with credit card, it's the same as spending poorly on Bitcoin. So Exactly. So if the alternative is credit card, you can only improve yourself.
606
00:51:28.244 --> 00:51:32.345
If the alternative is cash, the story is different because cash is just natively private.
607
00:51:32.645 --> 00:51:34.025
Except for cash is hyperinflating,
608
00:51:34.325 --> 00:51:44.000
and that's the whole thing. So, like, this whole thing of, like, cash is good because it's no KYC. Like, no. That's, like, a moot point now. Like No. That's not my point that it's no KYC. My point is that it's
609
00:51:44.645 --> 00:51:46.585
it's it's private by default.
610
00:51:47.605 --> 00:51:48.105
It
611
00:51:48.965 --> 00:51:52.425
so if if privacy is your if privacy is your priority,
612
00:51:53.079 --> 00:51:58.220
you can't shoot yourself in the foot by paying with cash. But if you if you use Bitcoin
613
00:51:58.680 --> 00:52:00.299
without understanding the nuances,
614
00:52:01.355 --> 00:52:05.215
that transaction might not be private. But if you're comparing it to credit card,
615
00:52:06.555 --> 00:52:12.770
it is it it can be worse than the credit card. Which which is fair. And so that's why, yeah, that's why I think
616
00:52:13.230 --> 00:52:14.210
talking about
617
00:52:15.790 --> 00:52:19.665
the personal finance benefits of spending Bitcoin are just good to get out there more
618
00:52:20.445 --> 00:52:34.130
because all we hear are the personal finance downsides of spending Bitcoin. They're all like, oh, well, you're triggering capital gains taxes. You don't have to pay the state and insulate the state. Like, you're not funding the state through paying capital gains taxes. The state funds itself by printing money. Like, the government spends a 130%
619
00:52:34.430 --> 00:52:46.190
of tax receipts every year. And so that's where, like, I'm I'm moving on from the old talking points of, like, you, you know, like, you can't use Bitcoin as a currency because the laws won't change. Like, no. I'm gonna start right now
620
00:52:46.730 --> 00:52:52.110
using Bitcoin as my base money before the tax laws change because that's how we win.
621
00:52:53.205 --> 00:53:10.495
I think either way too, you're still paying like, whether regardless of whether or not you're paying cap gains or you're giving revenue to the bank. Like, you're you're still someone's still making money on that transaction, and I guarantee the bank is making significantly more money off of, credit card payment processing systems.
622
00:53:10.955 --> 00:53:14.735
That's a super great point. I've never said it like that. That's really well said.
623
00:53:15.559 --> 00:53:20.619
Yeah. So I I think there's that part, and then think about all of the human time that's gonna be saved,
624
00:53:21.720 --> 00:53:35.260
because the transaction flows are significantly better. So, you know, the current transaction flow is pretty much like you see an item, you click buy, it generates a charge, the user scans or clicks the charge, confirms the payment,
625
00:53:35.960 --> 00:53:37.339
then the payment succeeds.
626
00:53:37.800 --> 00:53:48.655
That's like the success flow. And then even with, like, order ahead, with the Ocea app, which is something I really like in terms of their flow, you can, like, take your time, and you can actually, like,
627
00:53:48.955 --> 00:54:09.880
click the charge. It'll open up in your lightning wallet, your whatever preferred lightning wallet it is, and confirm the payment and send. And all you have to do is walk up and show the QR code. So, like, think about how much time is wasted standing in line and slow processing through the credit card merchants even with, like, the, e m EMV chips that they have now. It takes,
628
00:54:10.279 --> 00:54:13.660
a significant amount of time. So if you have, like, the entire world,
629
00:54:13.960 --> 00:54:14.779
like, saving,
630
00:54:15.160 --> 00:54:18.460
like, 20, 30 seconds every single time, if not minutes,
631
00:54:18.765 --> 00:54:33.180
every time, like, how much more productive would we be? So not only are you, like, lowering the operating costs or, like, saving tons of human time that could then be dedicated to something else. And on another point in interesting on the no KYC aspect,
632
00:54:33.880 --> 00:54:37.740
with Azteca terminals, you don't need to provide any sort of identity
633
00:54:38.724 --> 00:54:40.105
until up to, like, $1,000.
634
00:54:41.045 --> 00:54:45.065
And then I thought about it using open node, and I built in, an application.
635
00:54:45.640 --> 00:54:53.740
You could hook this up to l n bits too. There's it just change the endpoint and change the allocation. But one thing I like about the open node is that you can specify
636
00:54:54.125 --> 00:55:05.720
the allocation like Odell was saying earlier. So essentially, like, you could have a dedicated person in the community that has an open node account. Unfortunately, yeah, they have to, you know, I, verify identity, whatever.
637
00:55:06.740 --> 00:55:09.800
But I I still think that enables them to offer,
638
00:55:10.420 --> 00:55:11.880
another revenue source
639
00:55:12.224 --> 00:55:18.964
because then they can be that person for the community that all they have to do is generate a $5 charge with a percentage,
640
00:55:19.665 --> 00:55:29.350
spread to like 2 or 3%. And that's the cost that they pay for having that account. And on their end, they can generate a $5 charge, somewhat plus, 3% spread.
641
00:55:29.935 --> 00:55:33.955
The user can scan and pay it with whatever lightning wallet that they want.
642
00:55:34.735 --> 00:55:42.819
The merchant receives instant credit for that balance, and if they're using open though, they get the the the fantastic benefits that they offer, which is that allocation.
643
00:55:44.240 --> 00:55:50.855
So then if you're a merchant, you can just sell or or buy bitcoin from someone And it's an automatic FX conversion.
644
00:55:51.395 --> 00:55:52.935
So so you could even take 100%
645
00:55:53.315 --> 00:55:55.975
fee out if you don't want any exposure and just offer this.
646
00:55:56.380 --> 00:55:58.319
You essentially receive $5
647
00:55:58.859 --> 00:56:00.640
plus the 3% spread
648
00:56:00.940 --> 00:56:02.480
minus the 1% processing
649
00:56:02.859 --> 00:56:15.210
fee. So you make 2%, and and then you can give that person cash and know for a fact that that payment has settled. And you could do this for, you know, 10 5, 10, 25, 100, whatever amount that you want to pay the charge.
650
00:56:15.750 --> 00:56:23.065
And you could do the same thing if you if you wanted to retain your privacy and you're okay with receiving stats and giving cash. It's almost like,
651
00:56:23.365 --> 00:56:24.904
you know, a real life DCA
652
00:56:25.365 --> 00:56:30.680
without any sort of, like, KYC if you were to hook it up into your own lnbits and even,
653
00:56:31.300 --> 00:56:32.840
set the fee rate potentially
654
00:56:33.220 --> 00:56:39.615
to save even more. So there's, like, all kinds of different approaches you could do to enter the Bitcoin circular economy
655
00:56:39.994 --> 00:56:54.190
and to exit the Bitcoin circular economy. And there's options for everyone. So if you're very privacy conscious, you can do the no k y c route. If you are are not privacy conscious and you're more concerned about convenience, then you can approach it from that route too.
656
00:56:59.895 --> 00:57:09.740
So, Santosh, do you are you actually you're you're setting up merchants with Azteco payment terminals too? You're onboarding them onto that as well as
657
00:57:10.200 --> 00:57:11.180
accepting Bitcoin?
658
00:57:11.935 --> 00:57:12.415
We,
659
00:57:12.735 --> 00:57:16.115
we offer that. So there's basically, like, kind of a flow,
660
00:57:16.895 --> 00:57:18.835
that that we're using. Essentially,
661
00:57:19.215 --> 00:57:20.195
we have a partner,
662
00:57:20.740 --> 00:57:25.480
Their name is BitRamp, and they're an Azteco vendor. And their their model
663
00:57:25.780 --> 00:57:32.165
is completely focused on minimizing risk in getting these terminals into the merchant's hands without them having to put up any cash,
664
00:57:32.865 --> 00:57:34.244
to further terminal itself
665
00:57:34.704 --> 00:57:35.185
or,
666
00:57:35.505 --> 00:57:40.460
set up, like, to be able to have in their account to be deducted as, like, people purchase,
667
00:57:42.200 --> 00:57:43.339
vouchers from them.
668
00:57:43.800 --> 00:57:51.035
So their our partner is doing that, and we connect them with the partner. So we're working on a presentation to open up,
669
00:57:51.575 --> 00:58:00.930
to the general public, and we're gonna market it on, like, Eventbrite, LinkedIn, and Meetup, and Twitter, of course. So it's gonna be called, like, lightning for business. I really like the term,
670
00:58:01.390 --> 00:58:02.690
b commerce, so maybe,
671
00:58:03.150 --> 00:58:06.755
change the name there. But, essentially, it'll cover all the different aspects
672
00:58:07.375 --> 00:58:07.934
of, like,
673
00:58:08.575 --> 00:58:20.210
needs from the business perspective. Like, if you're a sole proprietor, you can use Zaprite or create your own invoice and bill it out. It's it's a great interface and a seamless process. It's easy to get onboarded.
674
00:58:20.625 --> 00:58:25.125
If you're a merchant like brick and mortar, you can use the Oshi app for marketing and discoverability.
675
00:58:26.225 --> 00:58:37.595
You can I wrote a point of sale app that is is uses the open note API? So if you need, like if you're, like, also wanting to offer, like, quick sales, you can, you know, click to generate charge if someone scans it and pays it,
676
00:58:38.075 --> 00:58:39.775
You know, if they want that novel experience.
677
00:58:41.035 --> 00:58:54.859
So then you you kinda have those aspects. If you're an enterprise, then you could look at, like, converting a portion of your treasury, like using, Swan Bitcoin as an example. If you want, like, a very easy, like, dollar cost averaging in into that position
678
00:58:55.160 --> 00:58:56.540
and begin saving there.
679
00:58:56.895 --> 00:59:00.275
So that that's kinda like how we imagine the the strategy.
680
00:59:03.454 --> 00:59:05.055
Yeah. Just to piggyback off that,
681
00:59:05.695 --> 00:59:06.195
DCA,
682
00:59:07.920 --> 00:59:10.980
DCA thing, you know, whenever a business is accepting
683
00:59:11.600 --> 00:59:12.100
Bitcoin,
684
00:59:12.880 --> 00:59:20.415
a lot of the businesses that we talk with, like, they realize that there's not gonna be some massive amount or group of people that are gonna be paying with Bitcoin,
685
00:59:20.795 --> 00:59:22.175
at least not at this moment.
686
00:59:22.620 --> 00:59:27.040
So let's say they sell like a few coffees a week. Like, is that business gonna be comfortable
687
00:59:27.420 --> 00:59:31.265
with holding on to like $12 worth of Bitcoin a week? Like,
688
00:59:31.805 --> 00:59:33.025
yes. Yes. They are.
689
00:59:34.045 --> 00:59:43.720
So in a way, like, every single time you make a purchase for a business that's accepting Bitcoin and generally speaking at this early stage, I'm finding most businesses are actually holding it.
690
00:59:44.260 --> 00:59:49.545
You're kind of like these businesses are are, like, DCA ing by selling their products and services,
691
00:59:50.165 --> 00:59:52.984
which is which is a really interesting way to think about it.
692
00:59:54.890 --> 00:59:59.869
Yeah. And it's like directly injecting them into the circular economy. So, like, right now,
693
01:00:00.410 --> 01:00:04.270
we kinda have, like, a circular economy of, like, earn and spend.
694
01:00:04.635 --> 01:00:15.370
So, like, earning, you can create content, you can provide goods and services, you can play games, you can earn rewards, you can stream and entertain, you can mine. And then just to use it or to spend it,
695
01:00:15.830 --> 01:00:20.490
you can huddle, you can pay others directly in goods and services, you can buy gift cards,
696
01:00:20.855 --> 01:00:21.895
You can use single use,
697
01:00:22.455 --> 01:00:34.450
generated cards or even now there's Bitcoin backed cards, kind of like what Brian was talking about related to, like, a Bitcoin checking account to hold in Sats, but immediately when you spend, there's an FX conversion
698
01:00:34.830 --> 01:00:36.530
to whatever respective currency
699
01:00:36.830 --> 01:00:42.325
and then have, you know, per pay for that good or service. So you could do it that way, or you can just pay directly
700
01:00:42.945 --> 01:00:48.079
in SaaS, which to me, like, makes the most economic sense in, like, the sense in terms of, like, time
701
01:00:48.460 --> 01:00:52.400
and and savings. Because it it then it ultimately makes everyone more productive.
702
01:00:53.020 --> 01:00:55.440
Like, no one wants to stand waiting in line
703
01:00:55.785 --> 01:01:02.444
to pay for something, and one of the worst experiences you can have from a like a banking or checkout experience is to be declined.
704
01:01:02.800 --> 01:01:09.140
With lightning, you have none of that. You don't have to even worry. Yeah. There may be a failed route, but I think that's where, like,
705
01:01:09.600 --> 01:01:17.914
using a lightning service provider is particularly useful because then you take advantage of not having to manage all of your own channels and having really good routing.
706
01:01:18.680 --> 01:01:22.860
And then the beautiful thing is, like, kinda touched on this before is, like,
707
01:01:23.240 --> 01:01:35.935
getting your funds off. Like, if you are using a custody provider, then you're putting yourself at risk for being shut down. That's 100% true. But the thing is is it's easier now than ever to withdraw. You can essentially specify
708
01:01:36.370 --> 01:01:42.790
a lightning address as as, like, in a setting somewhere. So this is my lightning address, click withdrawal, and it automatically sends
709
01:01:43.250 --> 01:01:50.375
to whatever whatever node is connected to that lightning address. It could be self hosted or it could be another trusted provider. Who knows?
710
01:01:50.755 --> 01:01:57.010
Ideally, you know, self hosted. So then you can earn using lightning service providers and then immediately withdraw or transfer
711
01:01:57.390 --> 01:02:00.530
off into something that's in your control. So then you're only ever,
712
01:02:00.990 --> 01:02:02.690
putting, like, very small amounts,
713
01:02:02.990 --> 01:02:03.809
at risk.
714
01:02:04.395 --> 01:02:05.695
And even on chain.
715
01:02:06.795 --> 01:02:08.655
Yeah. Definitely. Right? Like, I remember
716
01:02:09.035 --> 01:02:12.655
do you guys remember the async, not to be confused with
717
01:02:13.760 --> 01:02:25.125
strike, but they called it I think they called it async strike, which was they were an LSP and you put in an on chain address, and they would just basically accept a bunch of lightning payments for you. And then once it hit a threshold,
718
01:02:25.825 --> 01:02:29.445
it would send to an on chain address, so you didn't have as much custodial risk.
719
01:02:30.310 --> 01:02:42.204
The new dollar cost average is self custody average because no one should have any dollars at all. We shouldn't be talking about dollar cost averaging at all. We should be talking about self custody averaging.
720
01:02:46.000 --> 01:02:46.900
Stacking stats.
721
01:02:47.600 --> 01:02:49.620
Yeah. Hey. Of note, Ibex
722
01:02:49.920 --> 01:02:53.700
actually enables businesses to accept payments on Lightning, and it will,
723
01:02:54.005 --> 01:03:09.960
after a certain threshold, get auto directed to an on chain address too if they want. So very similar type of features. Oh, that's awesome. Ibex was just out in Oklahoma. They were he was giving demos. It was awesome. I gotta talk to the Ibex guys and get them to add BIP 47 payment codes for the auto withdrawals
724
01:03:11.065 --> 01:03:13.645
because it's important to make perfect the enemy of good.
725
01:03:17.145 --> 01:03:20.839
So, I mean, we've been talking about brick and mortar a lot, but Santos,
726
01:03:21.140 --> 01:03:22.680
you know, his passion project
727
01:03:23.060 --> 01:03:32.244
is Chamber of Satoshi and onboarding onboarding brick and mortar, but he also works for ZBD. I don't know exactly what you do over at ZBD,
728
01:03:32.705 --> 01:03:35.045
and we can get into that in a second, but,
729
01:03:35.740 --> 01:03:39.680
or, like, what your role is over at ZBD. But ZBD is this idea of
730
01:03:40.540 --> 01:03:47.535
of gaming with lightning, and and that is very much a circular economy as well, specifically on the streamer side,
731
01:03:48.075 --> 01:03:50.015
which obviously I have
732
01:03:52.190 --> 01:03:57.170
as as I don't stream video games, but I stream dispatch, and it's audience funded.
733
01:03:57.549 --> 01:04:00.849
So it's particularly interesting to me, and I saw you guys announced
734
01:04:01.285 --> 01:04:01.785
today,
735
01:04:03.525 --> 01:04:05.065
a new tool for streamers.
736
01:04:05.765 --> 01:04:06.265
Now
737
01:04:06.724 --> 01:04:10.184
just to fully load up this question before you answer it,
738
01:04:11.370 --> 01:04:14.110
you know, ZBD is also a custodial
739
01:04:15.050 --> 01:04:15.550
KYC'd
740
01:04:16.490 --> 01:04:16.990
LSP.
741
01:04:19.535 --> 01:04:21.775
How how do you got how do you think about the
742
01:04:22.815 --> 01:04:30.050
like, how how do you how do you how do you think about all these different trade offs and stuff in that, you know, type of streamer virtual circular economy?
743
01:04:31.150 --> 01:04:36.985
Yeah. One thing I want to touch on though is that we don't require KYC to use our our Xebiti
744
01:04:37.765 --> 01:04:46.230
app. In order to develop, like, higher limits, then you need to KYC, but all you actually need is an email and password to sign up. Yeah. But what's the lowest limit?
745
01:04:47.109 --> 01:04:50.570
You can send up to 250 k SATs per transaction
746
01:04:51.190 --> 01:04:58.185
up to, like, I think it's, like, a1000000 or 2,000,000 sat Okay. So it's not that bad on the sender side, but on the on the actual receiver side, it's
747
01:04:59.365 --> 01:05:13.285
it's it's Yeah. You kinda have to KYC. Right? Like, it's not? No. I don't think so. Because, like, a lot of the the payments are extremely low. They're they're atomic, actually. So when you're thinking about receiving, like, I I actually, correction, I think it's about 45,000.
748
01:05:14.225 --> 01:05:18.885
And the the beautiful thing about lightning, which I touched on earlier, is you can immediately withdraw.
749
01:05:19.240 --> 01:05:24.140
So you only need to you to actually use the streamer product, you don't need any sort of KYC.
750
01:05:24.840 --> 01:05:27.660
And the transaction the average transaction sizes
751
01:05:28.184 --> 01:05:31.964
are small enough such that, like, users are not running into that problem,
752
01:05:32.424 --> 01:05:35.805
right now. So if I enabled it if I enabled it on dispatch,
753
01:05:38.260 --> 01:05:39.640
on the streamer side,
754
01:05:40.020 --> 01:05:41.640
but just an email and a password,
755
01:05:43.220 --> 01:05:47.695
what are my limits? Do you know off the top of your head? Yeah. The minimum,
756
01:05:48.315 --> 01:05:54.200
SAT would be or the minimum received amount is 1, and then the maximum per transaction is 45,000.
757
01:05:54.740 --> 01:05:56.680
But there's not a there's not an amount?
758
01:05:57.460 --> 01:05:59.560
It's just on a per transaction basis?
759
01:06:00.340 --> 01:06:03.645
Yeah. The the limit for the total balance is 250,000,
760
01:06:04.265 --> 01:06:06.525
but you can transfer them off at any time.
761
01:06:06.825 --> 01:06:11.005
Oh, so if you keep draining it, as long as it doesn't get above that amount?
762
01:06:12.040 --> 01:06:21.180
Correct. And then I think the the weekly or monthly limit is, like, a1000000 or 2,000,000. So we Oh, there you go. Okay. A 1,000,000 SADs for the monthly received total.
763
01:06:22.505 --> 01:06:27.325
I believe so. I need to check the So what is that? That's, like, $500 right now.
764
01:06:29.319 --> 01:06:29.819
Pretty
765
01:06:30.119 --> 01:06:31.339
good. Yeah. That's decent.
766
01:06:32.200 --> 01:06:36.380
Yeah. So and, you know, you can transfer it off at any time. It's super convenient using,
767
01:06:36.839 --> 01:06:37.980
the lightning address.
768
01:06:38.965 --> 01:06:42.425
Many different, wallet apps do support it. Like, for example,
769
01:06:42.965 --> 01:06:44.985
Wallet of Satoshi also supports,
770
01:06:45.285 --> 01:06:50.830
lightning address, so it's seamless to transfer funds off of our or send them off off of our, Lightning
771
01:06:51.530 --> 01:06:55.785
platform. So there's there's that aspect of it. So with Streamer,
772
01:06:56.245 --> 01:07:02.425
what was the specific question there? Because I I know. You answered a lot of the I loaded it. First of all, what's your role at GBD?
773
01:07:03.490 --> 01:07:06.790
Oh, my role? I'm the business lead, so
774
01:07:07.090 --> 01:07:09.510
I I work very closely with our CTO,
775
01:07:10.130 --> 01:07:11.910
developing products and
776
01:07:12.845 --> 01:07:15.825
developing processes for engineering. So kind of like
777
01:07:16.285 --> 01:07:19.025
a pro like, kinda lead product and Cool. Engineering
778
01:07:19.645 --> 01:07:20.145
person.
779
01:07:21.480 --> 01:07:29.420
Well, I mean, I love the team you guys have over there. So you wanna you wanna so show us the streaming product. What is the streaming product?
780
01:07:30.195 --> 01:07:33.815
So I see the streaming product as a way for, like, the digital,
781
01:07:34.435 --> 01:07:39.019
circular Bitcoin circular economy to develop. So, if you go to zbd.gg/santos,
782
01:07:40.680 --> 01:07:51.485
like, you can see there's a lightning address. There's a static charge QR code in any wallet that supports l and URL to essentially scan this and pay you. So you can attach this, like, to your post.
783
01:07:52.425 --> 01:07:56.270
You can play games. We have a model called play to earn. So,
784
01:07:56.810 --> 01:08:00.510
game developers will essentially pay you stats for playing their games,
785
01:08:02.275 --> 01:08:07.575
then you kinda have the aspect of streaming and entertaining. There's a lot of gamers that are also streamers,
786
01:08:08.355 --> 01:08:11.580
and we see that as incredibly, you know, valuable and
787
01:08:11.980 --> 01:08:16.800
another way that people need to be able to earn Sats. Because if you look at it currently,
788
01:08:17.580 --> 01:08:20.720
like, how do like, how have people been able to pay you,
789
01:08:21.435 --> 01:08:35.239
using, like, Twitch as an example? You have to go through, like, US dollars, but then, you know, what if you wanna pay with with British pounds? There's a lot of actual user friction there. But the beautiful thing about SaaS is global money. So then,
790
01:08:35.860 --> 01:08:40.074
you could essentially pay using any wallet that supports the ln URL protocol,
791
01:08:40.614 --> 01:08:44.715
and it's all you have to do is just add, like, a browser source widget or 2,
792
01:08:45.094 --> 01:08:51.090
to begin taking advantage of this. So now it's just an additional way to earn Saks as a creator
793
01:08:51.470 --> 01:08:54.690
where you don't even, like, need to worry about fiat,
794
01:08:55.595 --> 01:08:59.855
whatsoever. So it's that it's, like, another way of, earning, essentially.
795
01:09:00.555 --> 01:09:06.420
Yeah. I mean, I I I think the, like, the virtual economy, it's just really fucking obvious.
796
01:09:08.240 --> 01:09:11.540
And I I think I mean, just in gaming in general,
797
01:09:14.135 --> 01:09:21.835
the overwhelming majority of of young kids' first interaction with sats will be through games, and I think people are really sleeping on it.
798
01:09:22.880 --> 01:09:33.465
Definitely. And imagine, like, a kid never having to get, like, a fiat bank account. Like, if you start streaming when you're, like, 12 or 13 years old, you you may never, like, even consider
799
01:09:33.765 --> 01:09:38.265
using fiat. And you'll you'll automatically know, like, that the fiat banking,
800
01:09:38.725 --> 01:09:40.490
experience is, like, significantly
801
01:09:41.510 --> 01:09:44.970
less. Or it's, like, it it's gonna cost you a lot more time and be slower
802
01:09:45.350 --> 01:09:53.594
than, like, a lightning experience would. So they already have learned by about stats and how to use stats, but and how to earn them by that point.
803
01:09:53.895 --> 01:10:06.775
Can't jump off that. So yeah. Exactly. So little kid plays games, learn stats. Right? And then say they become 13, 14, 15. I think there is a world where that 13, 14, 15 year old becomes like a freelance
804
01:10:07.155 --> 01:10:13.310
bug tester for software or is doing some other, like, remote job from their parents' Citadel,
805
01:10:14.250 --> 01:10:24.455
getting paid SATs straight to their wallet, straight from their like, straight inside their parents' Citadel, nothing else involved. And so because I think then what's gonna happen at that point is businesses
806
01:10:24.835 --> 01:10:35.010
so businesses are gonna direct deposit Bitcoin to their w two employees, but businesses are still gonna have incentive to hire freelance workers with freelance arrangements.
807
01:10:35.390 --> 01:10:44.145
And these kids working from their parents' citadels are gonna be able to, like, have leverage. They're they're basically gonna be, like, cheap offshore labor
808
01:10:45.245 --> 01:10:51.370
that they're gonna be able to negotiate and say, sorry, I only take stats, and sorry, I'm not filling out your 10.99.
809
01:10:51.750 --> 01:10:56.570
They're like, do you want my service or not? Like, and then the company is going to
810
01:10:56.875 --> 01:10:58.574
pay off book stats
811
01:10:58.875 --> 01:11:00.894
for that labor because they need it.
812
01:11:04.840 --> 01:11:12.380
That's an example of the way that, like, the direct deposit Bitcoin Paychex and, like, the off book Bitcoin circular economy is gonna work hand in hand.
813
01:11:15.755 --> 01:11:18.895
I mean, I do I do think it's gonna be interesting for
814
01:11:19.355 --> 01:11:24.050
just the economy in general, the global economy in general, about how it can be very interconnected.
815
01:11:25.230 --> 01:11:33.205
I think a lot of especially US based businesses will probably not use people that will refuse 10.90 nines, but I I think that's a different story.
816
01:11:33.665 --> 01:11:42.719
But the market and the the in the same way that, like, payment Bitcoin payment processors everywhere is widening the amount of places that gray market
817
01:11:43.260 --> 01:11:44.719
participants can shop
818
01:11:45.145 --> 01:11:53.244
because the point of sale can't tell the difference. The same thing is going to happen that like the amount of jobs that will be able to go no 1099
819
01:11:53.625 --> 01:11:54.764
is going to explode.
820
01:11:57.930 --> 01:12:02.590
Because currently currently, it's hard to find a remote job at all that'll be no 1099.
821
01:12:03.225 --> 01:12:03.725
Yeah.
822
01:12:06.425 --> 01:12:06.925
Yeah.
823
01:12:07.625 --> 01:12:13.790
I was going to say, like, I I think kind of what you're saying is, like, we're gonna migrate towards, like, a task based economy
824
01:12:14.170 --> 01:12:39.835
where people are going to solve specific problems, but not necessarily work like a like, at a career or a job, like a salary, where people are more, like, using whatever their unique skill set is to then solve the problems that are most interesting to them. And they'll be like this discovery aspect where you'll complete this task, and then all of a sudden, like, you receive stats for it, and then you can move on to a completely different sort of thing. And it it'll be like this transaction,
825
01:12:41.735 --> 01:12:43.515
this very virtuous transaction,
826
01:12:44.455 --> 01:12:53.460
cycle, essentially. Like, you need something done, you create, like, a particular post, and then someone discovers that, proposes a solution, and then it's paid
827
01:12:53.985 --> 01:12:59.284
in in SaaS. And it did a person could be, like, a task creator or task solver to some extent.
828
01:12:59.905 --> 01:13:08.140
Definitely. And then you'll still get rehired recurring from the same people because, like, the mental way of not having to find a new person every time will still be there for the business.
829
01:13:09.640 --> 01:13:10.085
Yeah.
830
01:13:10.965 --> 01:13:12.745
Yeah. That's really kinda how, like, Stackwork,
831
01:13:13.445 --> 01:13:15.065
works. I believe it's called Stackwork.
832
01:13:15.844 --> 01:13:19.065
Really cool really cool project whereby people can, like,
833
01:13:19.790 --> 01:13:22.210
complete these little micro tasks and earn sats,
834
01:13:22.910 --> 01:13:24.130
from anywhere in the world.
835
01:13:24.510 --> 01:13:29.330
Yeah. I was just gonna mention that. That's by Paul Atoy, the same guy, behind Sphinx.
836
01:13:29.775 --> 01:13:33.235
Mhmm. Yeah. And then there's another one. What is it? Is it MicroLancer?
837
01:13:34.895 --> 01:13:36.835
Dot IO, I think, is 1.
838
01:13:39.480 --> 01:13:42.460
But right now, they're, like, kind of very small paying,
839
01:13:43.400 --> 01:13:44.940
almost like micro tasks.
840
01:13:47.265 --> 01:13:52.885
I don't know how like, I mean, this is seems like a little bit off topic, but, like, how do you guys feel about this whole, like,
841
01:13:54.630 --> 01:13:55.930
gig economy concept?
842
01:13:56.390 --> 01:13:58.890
Like, isn't it kind of horrible for
843
01:14:00.950 --> 01:14:02.010
the the
844
01:14:02.355 --> 01:14:05.815
person that's not an employee because they're a gig economy worker?
845
01:14:06.275 --> 01:14:10.410
It was so I think it's a great question. And it was feeling a little bit like that.
846
01:14:10.970 --> 01:14:12.110
But I think Bitcoin,
847
01:14:12.650 --> 01:14:14.750
like, fixes that to a certain extent. Right?
848
01:14:15.050 --> 01:14:18.110
Because, like, the money itself, like, doesn't rot.
849
01:14:18.525 --> 01:14:21.105
So it's, like, harder. So, like, it's it's,
850
01:14:22.205 --> 01:14:38.955
easier to, like, do the task and have the money, like, not rot. I definitely agree that there's, like, downsides to it. And I think we're already, like the US already feels kind of like a caste system. Like, if you're a remote worker working inside your house, you just get Uber Eats delivered all the time. Like, that's already kind of like a CAST system.
851
01:14:40.055 --> 01:14:44.860
Yeah. And, I mean, you know, at Oshi, we implement sort of almost like a gig economy type thing.
852
01:14:46.300 --> 01:14:51.199
We say, hey. Look. Like, Visa and Mastercard shouldn't have to get, like, 2, 3, 4, 5%
853
01:14:51.955 --> 01:14:56.455
of every single transaction just for, like, the privilege of sending ones and zeros over the Internet.
854
01:14:57.235 --> 01:15:01.575
How about we keep that local? Like, how can we either reward the consumers or we reward, like, Bitcoiners
855
01:15:02.360 --> 01:15:04.460
who go around and they, like, get businesses,
856
01:15:05.000 --> 01:15:10.540
introduced to Oshi or get their family and friends introduced to Oshi to help them take their first steps into
857
01:15:10.965 --> 01:15:12.505
a Bitcoin circular economy.
858
01:15:13.125 --> 01:15:16.105
To that end, I mean, it's like, you know,
859
01:15:16.804 --> 01:15:23.420
as with all referral affiliate programs, like, once you're in more than $600 in a calendar a year, like, you have to do it to 99.
860
01:15:23.720 --> 01:15:27.020
Of course, you could just say, alright. I'm done with that account and be done, but,
861
01:15:28.115 --> 01:15:30.455
that that's the unfortunate unfortunate thing.
862
01:15:30.835 --> 01:15:31.235
But,
863
01:15:31.875 --> 01:15:33.175
yeah, I mean, I do think
864
01:15:34.035 --> 01:15:43.239
in terms of, like, gig economy, the seamlessness of the money and, like, just the programmable aspect of it and the final settlement aspect allows you to pay workers instantly,
865
01:15:44.635 --> 01:15:59.240
you know, at the at the time of every, like, purchase your referral mix in in this case or at the time of every sale of business mix in this case because settlement's final. Yeah. There's no chargebacks. So it's it's it just kinda changes the game if we're thinking about gig economy type setups.
866
01:15:59.595 --> 01:16:17.199
Dude, Michael, we talked about that, about, like, how with payment splits and stuff getting more popular. Like, if you're if you're then a bartender at a bar that chooses to start taking Bitcoin, then you're no longer just a bartender. Like, you're almost in a salesperson at the counter. And if you can close the check for Bitcoin, you should receive a part of that sale.
867
01:16:17.695 --> 01:16:19.475
And Bitcoin allows that to happen.
868
01:16:20.574 --> 01:16:21.935
Right. Yeah. And so I'm
869
01:16:22.415 --> 01:16:27.219
So let's talk about let's unpack this a little bit more, Michael, because, you know, usually
870
01:16:28.239 --> 01:16:32.980
in in general, I mean, there's a lot of, like, raffling bullshit scams in Bitcoin.
871
01:16:34.595 --> 01:16:35.555
Yeah. And I don't really
872
01:16:36.075 --> 01:16:39.015
I I I usually it's usually a bad sign.
873
01:16:39.555 --> 01:16:39.875
Right.
874
01:16:40.435 --> 01:16:43.060
But with with with Oshi, in particular,
875
01:16:43.680 --> 01:16:45.700
it's a very interesting concept because
876
01:16:46.880 --> 01:16:49.540
you kind of have these so so
877
01:16:49.945 --> 01:16:51.485
if if an OSI user
878
01:16:51.785 --> 01:16:52.285
onboards
879
01:16:52.665 --> 01:16:53.325
a business,
880
01:16:54.905 --> 01:16:55.405
you
881
01:16:56.185 --> 01:16:57.885
if they onboard them using
882
01:16:58.370 --> 01:17:01.030
their tag. Right? So, like, I have my tag down below
883
01:17:01.489 --> 01:17:02.710
previously, like, oshi.tech/odell.
884
01:17:03.889 --> 01:17:06.389
If they onboard a business with that tag,
885
01:17:07.275 --> 01:17:07.775
1%
886
01:17:08.155 --> 01:17:08.655
of
887
01:17:09.275 --> 01:17:10.415
the business that
888
01:17:10.795 --> 01:17:14.815
that business does through Oshi, that person gets. So you're basically incentivizing
889
01:17:15.115 --> 01:17:16.415
people to go out there,
890
01:17:17.140 --> 01:17:17.880
do the pitch,
891
01:17:18.340 --> 01:17:22.360
onboard businesses onto Bitcoin, and as a result, they get a cut. Right?
892
01:17:23.140 --> 01:17:25.480
Exactly. Yeah. We're trying to make
893
01:17:26.085 --> 01:17:28.745
the circular economy go around. We like,
894
01:17:29.125 --> 01:17:39.050
we're trying to incentivize people who are already, like, so passionate about Bitcoin as it is that never gets up on the right. Businesses, Bitcoin, and I have not gotten 1% back on them.
895
01:17:39.510 --> 01:17:40.010
Right.
896
01:17:40.550 --> 01:17:41.850
So this is that opportunity.
897
01:17:42.824 --> 01:17:46.284
Yeah. Yeah. Basically, you know, like, we we have we have
898
01:17:46.585 --> 01:17:49.085
a a valuable service we're providing for these businesses.
899
01:17:49.705 --> 01:17:52.125
And, we charge we charge less,
900
01:17:52.610 --> 01:17:56.230
than than Visa and Mastercard, substantially less in most cases.
901
01:17:56.610 --> 01:17:57.110
And,
902
01:17:57.489 --> 01:18:26.720
you know, at this stage, we choose to give all that back to the people that are actually participating in this economy and, like, getting businesses onboarded and getting them set up. And I I'm not saying, like, you have to go into the trenches with these businesses and be like, alright. Like, let me show you how to set up your your BTC Pacer. Nothing like that. Like, we don't expect Freaks. You should do that. That would be amazing if you did it. Michael's not telling you to do that, but I'm telling you to do that, and Santos is telling you to also onboard them to Azteca at the same time. So Yeah. Do all of those things,
903
01:18:27.100 --> 01:18:28.400
but it's not a requirement.
904
01:18:28.940 --> 01:18:39.655
It's not a requirement. You share that ref link. They hit us up. They're like, hey. We wanna accept Bitcoin. Oh, and, you know, my friend over here that gave me this ref link said that we we should do BDC pay server.
905
01:18:40.195 --> 01:18:45.270
What you know, what do we do? Oh, perfect. Yeah. That would be great. That'd be the dream, actually. That's the dream.
906
01:18:48.290 --> 01:18:50.870
I guess, like, my biggest concern is
907
01:18:51.245 --> 01:18:55.585
is that, you know, we onboard all these merchants, and they're on, like, 1 or 2
908
01:18:56.605 --> 01:18:58.385
custodial regulated LSPs.
909
01:18:59.485 --> 01:19:00.365
And then it's just
910
01:19:01.170 --> 01:19:02.790
it's really easy to
911
01:19:04.530 --> 01:19:05.750
blow that thing up.
912
01:19:06.530 --> 01:19:09.750
Yeah. And I understand. I respect the fact that it's
913
01:19:10.195 --> 01:19:10.695
it's,
914
01:19:12.435 --> 01:19:13.895
maybe part of the process
915
01:19:14.275 --> 01:19:16.455
because they're already using custodial
916
01:19:16.835 --> 01:19:17.335
regulated
917
01:19:17.795 --> 01:19:19.255
fiat methods anyway.
918
01:19:19.970 --> 01:19:20.370
And,
919
01:19:21.090 --> 01:19:22.150
and and maybe
920
01:19:22.850 --> 01:19:28.950
just the fact that we have more competition than just the BitPay. I mean, as this is not theoretical. Like, we literally had,
921
01:19:30.965 --> 01:19:33.145
BigHorners spent, you know, 2 years
922
01:19:34.725 --> 01:19:36.505
obsessed with onboarding merchants,
923
01:19:36.910 --> 01:19:39.970
and it was all onto the same custodial regulated provider
924
01:19:40.510 --> 01:19:41.970
who turned out to be evil.
925
01:19:42.670 --> 01:19:44.450
Mhmm. And that that was good pay.
926
01:19:44.915 --> 01:19:50.135
That's why changing that's why changing, yeah, like, the social conversation around
927
01:19:50.915 --> 01:19:54.330
the, like, payments and, like, the reason why
928
01:19:55.990 --> 01:20:00.090
they matter, like, is important. Because I still think, yeah, the,
929
01:20:03.995 --> 01:20:14.159
like, a lot of people try to say, like, oh, the the we're so early. Like, we're so early. Why, like, struggle with this? And they point back to that and how, like, oh, it's not it's not for payments then. But it's like, dude, the, like,
930
01:20:15.900 --> 01:20:21.775
the dollar sucks. Like, we all know that, but, like, doing business not with it is how
931
01:20:22.395 --> 01:20:23.615
you, like, win.
932
01:20:28.430 --> 01:20:28.930
I
933
01:20:30.270 --> 01:20:35.970
just wanna say that, you know, Michael said earlier, like, the way to win over businesses is not to, like, go in
934
01:20:36.350 --> 01:20:45.455
and, like, you know, tell them, like, the dollar's fucked and shit. I I most of the businesses that I've I've I've onboarded have just been with the fuck the state type of
935
01:20:47.410 --> 01:20:49.830
onboarding. So there are multiple methods.
936
01:20:50.530 --> 01:20:51.030
Yeah.
937
01:20:51.650 --> 01:20:52.210
Yeah. It's
938
01:20:53.135 --> 01:20:57.155
there there's there's a lot of people trying a lot of things. And, fortunately, now
939
01:20:57.535 --> 01:21:00.095
we have more than just, like, BitPay,
940
01:21:00.610 --> 01:21:06.630
And we have more than just like, yeah, just like download this wallet and, like, we have so many different different payment providers.
941
01:21:07.250 --> 01:21:07.650
And,
942
01:21:08.475 --> 01:21:11.295
you know, if one of them turns out to be a bad actor, fortunately,
943
01:21:12.075 --> 01:21:14.335
you know, everybody that's building apps right now,
944
01:21:14.715 --> 01:21:21.239
for for anything of this particular use case, make sure that you're interoperable with as many payment providers as possible because we're
945
01:21:21.540 --> 01:21:22.040
we're
946
01:21:22.820 --> 01:21:23.320
using
947
01:21:24.179 --> 01:21:27.824
an open source, you know, in a fully interoperable monetary network, like,
948
01:21:28.205 --> 01:21:36.010
leverage that. So, yeah, if there's a bid pay scenario, well, hey, guess what? Consumers, like, businesses, we we recommend you use this service now.
949
01:21:36.470 --> 01:21:46.025
And and Well, and you also got that habit. All the customers are now in the habit of you taking Bitcoin. Like, so switching service providers is, like, gonna be easier. And then,
950
01:21:46.405 --> 01:21:52.650
also, I think to the point earlier about, like, bit even spending Bitcoin poorly is like better than spending,
951
01:21:53.530 --> 01:21:58.190
credit cards. And I started thinking about that too, like holding if you're
952
01:21:58.724 --> 01:22:14.090
okay, if you're fully Bitcoin and then just fully cash, that's one thing. But a lot of people on Twitter, like are still holding dollars at Wells Fargo and dollars that chase a dollars at Bank of America, and then still kind of like armchair quarterbacking about like
953
01:22:14.390 --> 01:22:17.770
the just circular economy stuff and why, like
954
01:22:18.215 --> 01:22:21.435
just why there's barriers to it. But it's like holding
955
01:22:23.255 --> 01:22:23.755
you.
956
01:22:25.570 --> 01:22:39.715
Like, I just don't the in the same way that spending Bitcoin even poorly is better than spending credit cards, like, holding Bitcoin fully as your base money is better than holding dollars as your base money. And then your brain is gonna start moving towards, like, understanding
957
01:22:40.175 --> 01:22:46.330
the mechanisms of, like, why a business would do it or, like, why you spending Bitcoin at that business,
958
01:22:46.870 --> 01:22:49.130
like, makes sense to yourself, like, personally.
959
01:22:57.905 --> 01:22:59.205
Good points. Good points.
960
01:23:02.010 --> 01:23:03.469
I mean, this has been a
961
01:23:03.770 --> 01:23:05.630
this has been a fantastic conversation.
962
01:23:06.730 --> 01:23:09.630
I'm trying to think about where we wanna go next.
963
01:23:10.305 --> 01:23:11.365
But what about,
964
01:23:11.905 --> 01:23:12.405
like,
965
01:23:13.185 --> 01:23:15.125
there's a lot of Bitcoin meetups
966
01:23:15.825 --> 01:23:28.324
that I would say Yes. They are they are the people that are going to usher this in. Like, if you want one group of people in every single city across the country where you go, hey. Here are the tools. Here's the payment providers.
967
01:23:28.625 --> 01:23:32.724
Here's, like, the cash apps or the strikes or the blue wallets or the moon wallets.
968
01:23:33.105 --> 01:23:39.370
And for them to be able to take that information, package it up, and disseminate it out to everybody in their community, like,
969
01:23:40.150 --> 01:23:41.050
that is, like,
970
01:23:41.545 --> 01:23:44.125
that is huge, and we're seeing it already.
971
01:23:44.585 --> 01:23:45.565
We're seeing it,
972
01:23:46.345 --> 01:23:47.725
with the Chamber of Satoshi,
973
01:23:48.585 --> 01:23:51.005
Charlotte, Bitcoin meetup just had,
974
01:23:51.770 --> 01:23:53.870
you know, their introduction to Bitcoin,
975
01:23:54.490 --> 01:23:55.230
for businesses.
976
01:23:55.770 --> 01:24:02.005
You're you're having things going on in Kansas City. Obviously, Brian's already done, like, a lot of work in in the LA area.
977
01:24:02.705 --> 01:24:04.804
Austin's blowing up with that. Like,
978
01:24:05.425 --> 01:24:12.940
this is the way, and it's grassroots, it's bottom up, it's not top down. The more we wait for the top down and sit in our hands,
979
01:24:14.680 --> 01:24:23.235
that it's just not gonna be good in my opinion. Like, Bitcoin wins no matter what. But going back to the like, I think one of the first things you said on this on this pod, Matt,
980
01:24:23.540 --> 01:24:24.360
you were like,
981
01:24:24.660 --> 01:24:25.960
you know, when
982
01:24:26.420 --> 01:24:29.080
when is it gonna happen? Like, are we gonna wait decades?
983
01:24:29.460 --> 01:24:34.885
Or is it gonna be like 5 to 7 years? My time preference is low, but I'd prefer not to wait too long.
984
01:24:35.185 --> 01:24:40.090
Exactly. And this is how we do it. It's bottom up. Like, hitting the streets, talking with businesses
985
01:24:40.630 --> 01:24:49.075
with whatever you have. Don't don't don't stress. Like, just be like, hey. Talk something else. Meet up the meet up point is really strong. And, I mean, I think it's a point,
986
01:24:50.175 --> 01:24:51.635
that's relevant to both,
987
01:24:53.190 --> 01:24:54.650
both shows like Dispatch
988
01:24:55.430 --> 01:24:58.870
and on Meetups is this idea that that to scale is basically
989
01:25:00.385 --> 01:25:13.390
is is is educating people to the point where they can go out and they can educate 10 more people, that they those 10 people can then go out and educate 10 more people. And all of a sudden, you have a bunch of people
990
01:25:14.170 --> 01:25:18.270
who are aware of the trade offs, are aware of the options, are aware of
991
01:25:18.815 --> 01:25:25.795
the the the pros and cons of everything, and and can actually be on the ground helping friends and family, helping local merchants.
992
01:25:26.095 --> 01:25:27.395
The meetups in particular
993
01:25:28.480 --> 01:25:32.260
over the last 2 years and it's absolutely amazing because it coincided
994
01:25:32.719 --> 01:25:33.860
at the same time
995
01:25:34.239 --> 01:25:36.179
with, basically, global lockdowns.
996
01:25:36.505 --> 01:25:37.005
Mhmm.
997
01:25:37.465 --> 01:25:40.525
Where people were being prohibited from meeting in person.
998
01:25:40.985 --> 01:25:50.910
The global meetup scene Bitcoin meetup scene has absolutely blossomed. It's one of the single biggest bullish fundamentals in Bitcoin that I have noticed over the last couple of years.
999
01:25:52.165 --> 01:26:00.425
And so so to the freaks out there, like, if you're not participating in a local meetup, look to see if there is one. If there isn't one, maybe there's one that's, like, crypto.
1000
01:26:01.470 --> 01:26:02.290
Those suck.
1001
01:26:02.990 --> 01:26:16.475
Start your own. You know? Start your own Bitcoin meetup. Find 2 or 3 like minded people. Just start. You don't have to do anything fancy. You don't have to run a bit devs or something. Like, meet up at a local pub or something. Convince the pub to accept Bitcoin. Bartenders
1002
01:26:17.360 --> 01:26:21.860
are the number one easiest target to accept Bitcoin. I don't know what it is.
1003
01:26:23.200 --> 01:26:30.155
Maybe it's just because I'm drunk at that point, but for whatever reason, it seems like if if if you stay at a bar for an hour and a half,
1004
01:26:31.575 --> 01:26:35.980
you should be able to convince them to at least accept Bitcoin at a bare minimum fashion.
1005
01:26:36.920 --> 01:26:44.255
So I wanna talk a little bit on the meetup note, Michael, you had this this Bitcoin block party in Austin. You wanna talk about that a little bit?
1006
01:26:45.114 --> 01:26:46.494
Yeah. So, you know,
1007
01:26:47.755 --> 01:26:48.574
I I overheard,
1008
01:26:49.920 --> 01:26:54.980
Kyle Murphy talking on, like, a John Vales podcast, and he's, like, talking about Bitcoin and community. And I'm like,
1009
01:26:55.600 --> 01:26:56.100
yes.
1010
01:26:56.480 --> 01:26:57.780
Like, absolutely. So
1011
01:26:58.105 --> 01:27:05.085
I, I got out of my car and I drove down to Austin, and we onboarded, like, I don't know, 13 or 15 businesses on a very,
1012
01:27:05.480 --> 01:27:06.220
like, small,
1013
01:27:06.600 --> 01:27:09.260
you know, popular street in Austin. It's called Rainy Street.
1014
01:27:10.200 --> 01:27:23.790
Majority of them were food trucks. It was so easy just to, like, walk up and, like, talk to the owner and be like, hey. Do you wanna accept Bitcoin and offer Bitcoin rewards? And they were like, sure. And some of them were harder to convince than others, but some of them were like,
1015
01:27:24.090 --> 01:27:28.670
I've been looking for this. And I was like, you know, obviously, that brought a smile to my face.
1016
01:27:29.050 --> 01:27:29.550
And
1017
01:27:30.344 --> 01:27:33.324
so we set it up and, you know, normally, the Dawson,
1018
01:27:34.025 --> 01:27:37.244
scene is is really strong. Right? Always. There's, you know,
1019
01:27:37.770 --> 01:27:41.390
a couple of 100 people at at the meetups, each meetup, and so on.
1020
01:27:42.810 --> 01:27:47.905
We're estimating around 600 people showed up to this block party on a Thursday night at 8 PM,
1021
01:27:48.685 --> 01:27:55.380
to come out and support these businesses that are accepting Bitcoin. And we provided some incentives, additional incentives,
1022
01:27:56.159 --> 01:28:00.500
for the consumers in the form of rewards to actually get out there and and participate. Right?
1023
01:28:01.815 --> 01:28:07.355
The businesses saw the value in it. It brought them more business than they've probably ever seen on a Thursday night.
1024
01:28:08.695 --> 01:28:13.720
The the bar was happy as well. Like, it was a really cool thing. And this is something that's replicable
1025
01:28:14.340 --> 01:28:18.840
all over the country as well, and it's it's already it already is happening. Like,
1026
01:28:19.645 --> 01:28:32.590
Santos' Satoshi Day that they were talking about, you know, it's kind of very similar in nature. Like, you're coming out and you're celebrating businesses that are now accepting Bitcoin. You're showing your support for them. Kansas City is gonna have one as well. These are gonna be everywhere.
1027
01:28:34.570 --> 01:28:35.870
So, again, like,
1028
01:28:36.425 --> 01:28:42.285
the time is now. Like, this this is this is, in my opinion, a fairly critical moment,
1029
01:28:43.065 --> 01:28:44.285
in Bitcoin. And,
1030
01:28:45.320 --> 01:28:57.285
you know, I it's funny too because, like, whenever you say anything like that, you always think about, like, say Roger Ver. Like, everybody needs to accept Bitcoin and, like The babies are dying. The babies are dying, but it's like, you know what?
1031
01:28:57.745 --> 01:29:00.885
Like, this time, we have lightning, and we have tools and infrastructure
1032
01:29:01.265 --> 01:29:01.765
and
1033
01:29:02.490 --> 01:29:05.070
to to make this work. And so we're gonna try it,
1034
01:29:06.650 --> 01:29:09.390
you know, on layer 2. Right? See what happens.
1035
01:29:11.015 --> 01:29:14.554
One one thing too, I think, that's really interesting is, like, the meetup,
1036
01:29:15.015 --> 01:29:20.155
you you kinda start talking about different ideas, different presentations to help the local community
1037
01:29:20.530 --> 01:29:25.830
get inspired by one another. One of our meetup members, Adam, was talking about wanting to do,
1038
01:29:26.450 --> 01:29:27.990
a presentation to help
1039
01:29:29.275 --> 01:29:29.775
seniors
1040
01:29:30.315 --> 01:29:34.015
essentially begin stacking sats and then how to transfer it to,
1041
01:29:34.475 --> 01:29:35.455
a cold storage,
1042
01:29:35.915 --> 01:29:36.415
wallet,
1043
01:29:37.630 --> 01:29:39.730
or basically transfer to cold storage
1044
01:29:41.710 --> 01:29:44.610
using, different cold cards at his house
1045
01:29:44.945 --> 01:29:47.685
to get them the education that they need with while risking,
1046
01:29:47.985 --> 01:29:56.510
like, very minimal. So then you start thinking about, like, how can you serve more people? You can take those sort of presentations. You can either record them individually,
1047
01:29:57.210 --> 01:29:57.870
like, tailored,
1048
01:29:58.570 --> 01:30:07.765
for, like, a online format, or you can do it locally at the local level. So then you have options to select from. Whether, like, you're an individual that feels comfortable,
1049
01:30:08.170 --> 01:30:11.469
like, executing it on your own or you need your handheld a bit,
1050
01:30:11.849 --> 01:30:15.949
to get there. And then eventually, once you have enough educational resources,
1051
01:30:16.585 --> 01:30:18.765
create a help and support portal
1052
01:30:19.065 --> 01:30:24.845
along with many different guides to get from get to level 1, to get to level 2, to get to level 3,
1053
01:30:25.409 --> 01:30:42.840
and kinda take you through throughout your Bitcoin journey. So that's something that we're thinking about a lot, like, at the Arizona Bitcoin Network. And a lot of people are very passionate and very knowledgeable, and it's it I think it's on us to, like, lean on the community a bit and open it up to where people can have those presentations
1054
01:30:43.219 --> 01:30:46.199
to to broadcast that message or to share videos.
1055
01:30:46.659 --> 01:30:49.159
So, like, the community is incredibly powerful.
1056
01:30:50.655 --> 01:30:53.155
Yeah. And and, like, let's not forget about
1057
01:30:53.695 --> 01:30:58.675
economic development centers or corporations in these towns and cities as well. Right?
1058
01:30:59.719 --> 01:31:02.540
And I think you kind of alluded to some of that too, but it's like
1059
01:31:03.400 --> 01:31:04.380
a lot of these,
1060
01:31:04.760 --> 01:31:07.660
you know, like in Redding so I I started this in Redding, California,
1061
01:31:08.215 --> 01:31:12.635
and I actually had some support from the local economic development,
1062
01:31:13.095 --> 01:31:13.595
committee.
1063
01:31:14.055 --> 01:31:26.655
And, like, they were interested. You know? They were they were very curious. Like, just like, the mayor of Miami and, like, all of these politicians are are starting to talk about, like, Bitcoin and stuff whether or not they actually give a shit about it.
1064
01:31:27.614 --> 01:31:28.755
That's game theory.
1065
01:31:29.614 --> 01:31:37.290
So tap into local, you know, community organizers. Right? Like, we're not going to the federal government for this. Like, ask ask,
1066
01:31:37.910 --> 01:31:47.005
someone in your community that that focuses on economic development and, you know, the local chamber of commerce. And and if you're not getting anywhere with that, then, just start your own. Right, Sautos?
1067
01:31:47.305 --> 01:31:51.805
So, like but but pretty soon, they're gonna they're gonna be coming to you,
1068
01:31:52.240 --> 01:31:55.300
and they're gonna be asking how they can empower their community.
1069
01:31:55.760 --> 01:31:57.060
Maybe how they can get
1070
01:31:57.440 --> 01:31:59.540
Visa and Mastercard out of their community.
1071
01:31:59.905 --> 01:32:00.405
And,
1072
01:32:01.185 --> 01:32:01.685
Yeah.
1073
01:32:02.785 --> 01:32:16.230
One cool thing too, like, you can align the incentive. So, like, if you start a meetup and you're like, how do I get money to pay for a venue? If you're out there onboarding businesses using Oshi, I think it was touched on earlier that there's, like, a referral. You earn,
1074
01:32:16.770 --> 01:32:24.185
essentially Sats for whenever Sats are transacted, use it using the app. So then you can essentially be out there onboarding businesses,
1075
01:32:24.725 --> 01:32:25.785
earn the 1%,
1076
01:32:26.630 --> 01:32:30.890
to support your non profit. And then from there, use that to book venues,
1077
01:32:31.350 --> 01:32:34.010
to purchase books or educational resources,
1078
01:32:34.715 --> 01:32:43.855
marketing materials for the business, which is something that we've developed over a year, taking inspiration from, like, Amex's shop small and tailoring that to Bitcoin.
1079
01:32:44.330 --> 01:32:48.270
Those are all things you can do to massively impact and increase,
1080
01:32:49.290 --> 01:32:53.695
the the, like, the understanding of Bitcoin and getting access to it,
1081
01:32:54.815 --> 01:32:56.675
and to be able to fund your operations
1082
01:32:57.135 --> 01:33:00.435
without even necessarily, like, needing to, like,
1083
01:33:03.130 --> 01:33:05.869
to to sell, like, products or services or or fundraise.
1084
01:33:08.250 --> 01:33:09.290
Yeah. That would be,
1085
01:33:10.785 --> 01:33:14.324
Yeah. We we were talking about this the other day. Right? And it's like,
1086
01:33:14.945 --> 01:33:15.685
if that
1087
01:33:16.465 --> 01:33:20.090
if that works out in that way, that's gonna be pretty powerful.
1088
01:33:20.950 --> 01:33:22.970
Yeah. Before you know it, you could have
1089
01:33:23.430 --> 01:33:27.610
you could have cities really pushing for for Bitcoin adoption because it helps
1090
01:33:27.975 --> 01:33:28.715
the city.
1091
01:33:29.175 --> 01:33:31.035
So it's, yeah, it's gonna be pretty crazy.
1092
01:33:31.735 --> 01:33:32.235
What,
1093
01:33:32.695 --> 01:33:34.795
what do you guys thought? So, like,
1094
01:33:35.820 --> 01:33:40.320
nowadays, you go to a merchant. Right? A brick and mortar merchant. Most of them are
1095
01:33:42.219 --> 01:33:44.639
using, like, Toast or Clover or,
1096
01:33:46.605 --> 01:33:47.105
Square.
1097
01:33:47.645 --> 01:33:55.040
There there's, like, what? There's, like I I assume Michael knows these stats. Michael, do you know the stats of the brick and mortar payment terminals?
1098
01:33:55.739 --> 01:34:01.035
I think Square so so Toast, my understanding for restaurants, has about 30% of the market.
1099
01:34:01.835 --> 01:34:09.855
That's my understanding. And, Square has a quarter, I think, of, like, let's say, all, like, small businesses in in the United States.
1100
01:34:11.290 --> 01:34:12.190
There's Clover.
1101
01:34:12.810 --> 01:34:21.465
Clover has different apps. They they have, like, a much more open, like, app app store type thing that you could develop on. Yeah. For those that wanna wanna get into that,
1102
01:34:22.085 --> 01:34:27.580
Square has a nice open API as well to do cool stuff. Toast is completely closed. Dude,
1103
01:34:28.200 --> 01:34:31.100
I have a good Toast story, if that's what you're asking. Well,
1104
01:34:31.400 --> 01:34:34.280
I I I'm my my question was, do we think
1105
01:34:35.085 --> 01:34:39.505
is one of them gonna come out with Bitcoin support? And how does that
1106
01:34:39.885 --> 01:34:40.945
change the equation?
1107
01:34:41.245 --> 01:34:43.905
Is is that something you guys think about? Or
1108
01:34:44.310 --> 01:34:46.410
Yeah. I I've more
1109
01:34:48.230 --> 01:34:53.690
like, I think it's gonna be slower to roll out than people realize. That's my understanding. That's my impression.
1110
01:34:54.235 --> 01:34:57.135
I think it's far more likely that there's gonna be some sort of acquisition
1111
01:34:59.275 --> 01:35:01.614
to to do that. Like, even Cash App
1112
01:35:02.220 --> 01:35:06.220
is moving a lot faster than Square even though they're under the same block umbrella, like,
1113
01:35:08.060 --> 01:35:14.135
you know, I I'm I'm optimistic they'll be rolling out a bitcoin terminal but I don't think it's gonna happen anytime soon
1114
01:35:14.675 --> 01:35:15.175
personally.
1115
01:35:16.430 --> 01:35:26.784
But I think that's also a really big opportunity for other companies to help provide bridge services by But I'm not even saying, like, a specific terminal. Right? I'm saying just an update to their existing terminals.
1116
01:35:27.804 --> 01:35:28.304
Right.
1117
01:35:28.764 --> 01:35:33.664
Yeah. I mean It just displays a QR code, and then anyone can pay it from any Lightning Wallet.
1118
01:35:34.230 --> 01:35:37.929
Yeah. My understanding is still that they're mostly looking for for acquisitions.
1119
01:35:39.030 --> 01:35:42.015
Like, Toast, to my knowledge, doesn't have a Bitcoin plan.
1120
01:35:42.655 --> 01:35:44.915
I don't have, like, insider information. I side
1121
01:35:45.615 --> 01:36:14.409
loaded BTC pay server on a Toast tablet, and we had to use an SD card and load the, like, SDK SDK as a as a web URL in order to get it to run on there. And we still got it to where they could close the Toast terminal and then open BTCPay. So that was sick. And then I ended up with a on the phone with a guy from Toast who was, like, an outside salesperson for them who is a Bitcoiner and learn and listens to, like, all the, like, all the shows. And so that was awesome. But, yeah, agreed with you, Michael, that Toast is probably the lowest
1122
01:36:14.710 --> 01:36:15.210
lowest,
1123
01:36:15.670 --> 01:36:17.369
like, of who will move first.
1124
01:36:17.725 --> 01:36:18.945
I do I
1125
01:36:19.324 --> 01:36:20.864
I do think that, like,
1126
01:36:21.244 --> 01:36:34.360
I'm hyper bullish, and I think Square will move this year, like, or early next year. And then I think what will happen after that is either McDonald's, Taco Bell, or Starbucks. Basically, all the Fortune 500 companies that are the 2 next
1127
01:36:34.715 --> 01:36:47.950
pill like, dominoes to fall are you're right. 1 of these guys either doing it through acquisition or turning it on, and all the Fortune 500 companies that are running their pilots in El Salvador, so like Starbucks talk about McDonald's.
1128
01:36:48.410 --> 01:37:07.040
One of them, my gut says that their CFO and their financial people are gonna realize that it's going well, and they're gonna turn on a US based pilot. So I think you're gonna see some sort of, like, you're gonna see some sort of, press release from McDonald's that says like, hey, like, select markets now have Bitcoin turned on.
1129
01:37:08.435 --> 01:37:10.995
Like, I think you're gonna see something like that as a big,
1130
01:37:11.475 --> 01:37:17.574
next domino. So let me I I mean, I I tend to agree with Brian that's gonna happen sooner than people think.
1131
01:37:18.070 --> 01:37:18.570
Do
1132
01:37:19.030 --> 01:37:20.490
let me rephrase the question.
1133
01:37:21.110 --> 01:37:25.290
If, let's say, hypothetically, in a month, one of the major existing
1134
01:37:26.310 --> 01:37:26.810
terminals
1135
01:37:27.785 --> 01:37:30.205
starts accepting lightning payments
1136
01:37:31.305 --> 01:37:35.325
by showing a QR code that any wallet can pay. Does that change
1137
01:37:36.430 --> 01:37:37.570
any of your strategies,
1138
01:37:37.949 --> 01:37:40.370
or does it just speed things up?
1139
01:37:42.590 --> 01:37:43.250
For me,
1140
01:37:44.035 --> 01:37:47.055
personally, it just speeds things up. I mean, I'm
1141
01:37:47.635 --> 01:37:49.075
with Oshi, personally, I'm
1142
01:37:49.555 --> 01:37:56.030
are you talking about, like, the projects that I'm working on? Or No. No. So yeah. So so with with with Oshi,
1143
01:37:56.970 --> 01:37:58.270
let's say in a month,
1144
01:37:59.495 --> 01:38:04.875
one of the major terminals starts accepting Bitcoin. Mhmm. It's just like a software update. They don't need new hardware.
1145
01:38:06.390 --> 01:38:06.890
Oshi
1146
01:38:07.830 --> 01:38:11.830
that's great for Oshi. Right? That's great for the Bitcoin circular economy, or am I
1147
01:38:12.470 --> 01:38:14.970
Absolutely. Yeah. We we are not a POS.
1148
01:38:15.895 --> 01:38:18.875
We we get businesses connected with POS systems.
1149
01:38:21.255 --> 01:38:25.000
We aim to provide, like, the Bitcoin rewards
1150
01:38:25.540 --> 01:38:26.040
loyalty
1151
01:38:26.340 --> 01:38:28.040
marketing for small businesses
1152
01:38:28.580 --> 01:38:40.880
that are willing to do so, willing to incentivize and entice customers with Bitcoin. So, like, let's say let's say, like, if striking Square has a partnership or something, right, and then it, like, gets rolled out. Okay?
1153
01:38:41.420 --> 01:38:41.920
Like,
1154
01:38:42.220 --> 01:38:43.680
that would be fantastic.
1155
01:38:44.220 --> 01:38:45.520
That would be phenomenal.
1156
01:38:46.460 --> 01:38:57.770
And and even so, like, businesses could still choose whatever payment provider they want. I mean, granted, like, let's say if that happens and whoever, like, if it's if Square partners with somebody and then they roll out lightning,
1157
01:38:58.170 --> 01:39:03.230
like, everyone's gonna use that if they're already using Square. But the cool thing is is that they don't have to.
1158
01:39:04.250 --> 01:39:08.405
They they can, you know, opt into the monetary network using a lot of different things.
1159
01:39:08.785 --> 01:39:09.285
So
1160
01:39:09.825 --> 01:39:38.190
that's that's what's really, really exciting. It'll hasten things. It'll also legitimize it, and it'll make it far easier for me to walk into a business and say, hey. Like, did you know that your terminal accepts Bitcoin payments? Wanna do Bitcoin loyalty just like, you know, Shake Shack is doing or just like, you know, these cash, cash cards are doing on Cash App and all this stuff. Like, do you wanna do it yourself? Like, do you wanna be empowered and have that ability? Then so yeah. I mean, that would be
1161
01:39:38.730 --> 01:39:39.230
fantastic.
1162
01:39:40.315 --> 01:39:49.615
An interesting thing too, I would like to piggyback off of that, is, like, the definitely the rewards aspect. Like, with play to earn, we're seeing significantly higher rates of retention.
1163
01:39:50.060 --> 01:39:51.280
So, like, what does,
1164
01:39:51.740 --> 01:39:56.400
enabling a business to be able to, like, offer Bitcoin rewards back,
1165
01:39:56.780 --> 01:40:00.735
enable for them? Like, they'll be able to lower the payment processing costs,
1166
01:40:01.115 --> 01:40:03.215
offer a percentage back on the purchase.
1167
01:40:03.515 --> 01:40:05.455
And I can imagine, like, many people,
1168
01:40:05.880 --> 01:40:10.940
like, going back to that restaurant specifically because it has a Bitcoin loyalty program.
1169
01:40:13.625 --> 01:40:29.710
So the the Bitcoin isn't the businesses that are Bitcoin powered essentially will retain their customers better as well, which is incredibly powerful for for them because acquiring new customers is always significantly more costly than retaining your existing customers.
1170
01:40:31.355 --> 01:40:34.975
Yeah. And and just playing that game theory out,
1171
01:40:35.595 --> 01:40:39.855
let's say there's a business that is opted to take a certain percentage
1172
01:40:40.180 --> 01:40:44.440
of all Bitcoin payments and hold them on their balance sheet. Let's say they hold
1173
01:40:44.740 --> 01:40:46.920
the full amount, every coffee they sell.
1174
01:40:47.255 --> 01:40:50.235
They're gonna give 10% sats back on this cup of coffee.
1175
01:40:50.695 --> 01:40:51.835
In a year's time,
1176
01:40:52.534 --> 01:41:11.395
if they're if they if they're quote, unquote feeling lucky, right, they they could hold on to that Bitcoin. And do they anticipate that the price of Bitcoin is gonna go up more than 10% within 12 months or within 18 months. If they're willing to hold the Bitcoin for that time, that 10% discount or Sats back promotion to acquire those new customers was was free.
1177
01:41:12.240 --> 01:41:14.820
It was free. Yeah. And and that gets
1178
01:41:15.760 --> 01:41:17.940
absolutely insane. Like, if that particular
1179
01:41:18.320 --> 01:41:31.540
flywheel effect plays out, if that game theory plays out, that would be the craziest thing that I think ever happened. Look. And to get hyper bullish on that, dude, Bitcoiners need to be buying Fiat businesses for Sats on the dollar.
1180
01:41:31.840 --> 01:41:32.660
Like like,
1181
01:41:33.120 --> 01:41:51.070
Bitcoiners need to be focused on their own Sats flow. Like, that's the reason why I don't like the, like, dollars as checking account, Bitcoin as savings account thing because every single Bitcoiner is a business. Like, every single Bitcoiner is a merchant. Like, you need to be focused on your SaaS flow, and we need to be focused on acquiring
1182
01:41:52.090 --> 01:41:53.790
fiat, like like,
1183
01:41:54.570 --> 01:41:55.070
physical
1184
01:41:55.974 --> 01:41:56.474
places
1185
01:41:57.094 --> 01:42:09.590
so that we can continue to, like, make the world a better place. Like, if these businesses are not gonna start upgrading to the new money, then we're gonna buy them. For sats on the dollar, we're gonna upgrade them, and we're going to continue,
1186
01:42:10.050 --> 01:42:11.190
like, doing this.
1187
01:42:18.255 --> 01:42:19.555
Love the energy, guys.
1188
01:42:20.255 --> 01:42:22.515
And, look, this has been a fantastic conversation.
1189
01:42:23.120 --> 01:42:24.659
I appreciate all of your time.
1190
01:42:25.120 --> 01:42:27.540
I think it's a very important topic, especially
1191
01:42:28.239 --> 01:42:29.540
the whole meetup grassroots,
1192
01:42:32.335 --> 01:42:35.155
being the change you wanna see in the world in your local community,
1193
01:42:35.855 --> 01:42:37.155
be good to your neighbors.
1194
01:42:39.020 --> 01:42:41.600
I like to we're about to hit the 2 hour mark.
1195
01:42:42.140 --> 01:42:46.320
I want to be courteous of your time. I like to wrap this up with
1196
01:42:46.925 --> 01:42:47.665
final thoughts.
1197
01:42:50.605 --> 01:42:52.545
Santos, we'll start with you. Final thoughts.
1198
01:42:53.565 --> 01:42:54.785
I love the conversation.
1199
01:42:55.165 --> 01:42:59.240
Absolutely honored to be here and, like, share some of these ideas and strategies,
1200
01:43:00.260 --> 01:43:04.760
discuss what's going on in Arizona. So if you're ever in Arizona, please just check out,
1201
01:43:05.385 --> 01:43:06.365
you know, meetup.com/,
1202
01:43:07.625 --> 01:43:12.845
I think, az bitcoiners, or that might be our Twitter handle, and and, join us for a drink.
1203
01:43:14.130 --> 01:43:15.430
Cheers. Thanks, Santos.
1204
01:43:15.730 --> 01:43:17.110
Brian, final thoughts.
1205
01:43:17.970 --> 01:43:25.845
Final thoughts. Look, the lockdown changed a lot of things for me. Like, it made me realize that Bitcoin's happening right now in person. And when I heard, like,
1206
01:43:26.465 --> 01:43:35.460
just appreciate, like, what you and Marty do. And when Marty interviewed, like, Mike from Bitcoin Beach, it made me realize, like, all the tools are available right now. And so having, like,
1207
01:43:36.179 --> 01:43:41.525
Osheyap and Michael come down to Southern California, like at Next Burger that day when we had that party and then watching what Michael has done,
1208
01:43:42.085 --> 01:43:54.810
and watching what Kyle's doing in Austin and, like, meeting the guys in Kansas City, just got back from Oklahoma. Like, that all means, like, a really lot to me. So Bitcoin means a lot to me, and I'm thankful to, like, do this with all of you and, like, honestly, helpful.
1209
01:43:56.470 --> 01:43:56.970
Cheers.
1210
01:43:57.494 --> 01:44:01.755
I appreciate you as well, Brian. Thanks for coming on the show. Michael, final thoughts.
1211
01:44:02.454 --> 01:44:10.350
Yeah. I love all you guys. Thanks to everyone in in the chat as well for showing up, man. Like, I was telling you before, Matt, like, I grew up on on TFTC
1212
01:44:10.970 --> 01:44:12.750
and, Citadel Dispatch,
1213
01:44:13.210 --> 01:44:14.270
basically, like,
1214
01:44:14.985 --> 01:44:16.764
religious religious following there.
1215
01:44:17.625 --> 01:44:19.885
Yeah. I think I think it's just time
1216
01:44:20.905 --> 01:44:21.304
for,
1217
01:44:21.810 --> 01:44:29.350
for people to kinda get out there and, like, shake a business owner's hand, right, and and just start the conversation.
1218
01:44:29.845 --> 01:44:33.145
Like, what what Brian was saying, what Santos was saying, like,
1219
01:44:33.925 --> 01:44:34.745
it's happening.
1220
01:44:35.605 --> 01:44:39.145
We can we can start, like, a little piece of Bitcoin Beach,
1221
01:44:39.580 --> 01:44:41.840
like, in in cities all across the country,
1222
01:44:42.300 --> 01:44:43.520
all across the world.
1223
01:44:44.460 --> 01:44:45.679
What the tiny,
1224
01:44:46.060 --> 01:44:53.725
like, town of El Zante, El Salvador, right, with a small group of people and a lot of passion were able to do, like, that should be
1225
01:44:54.585 --> 01:44:57.805
the thing that gets people going that, like, this can happen anywhere.
1226
01:44:58.430 --> 01:45:01.969
Right? And even if the reasons are a little different for why it happens. Right?
1227
01:45:02.270 --> 01:45:03.489
Like, it can happen.
1228
01:45:04.030 --> 01:45:10.614
So, like, we're rolling into Miami to Nashville. The beat ups are blowing up in Austin, like, everywhere. Right? Phoenix.
1229
01:45:11.474 --> 01:45:12.934
Just keep it going, everyone.
1230
01:45:13.235 --> 01:45:14.695
Fuck. Yeah. Thanks, Michael.
1231
01:45:16.350 --> 01:45:17.170
It's it's
1232
01:45:17.710 --> 01:45:20.850
it was a pleasure kicking with you. Are are you guys gonna be in Miami?
1233
01:45:22.350 --> 01:45:28.465
Yeah. We'll be there. Brian will be there. Michael, you'll be there? Yeah. I'll be there. We'll have probably
1234
01:45:29.724 --> 01:45:35.170
a couple dozen businesses as well that are that are, on Ocea up there, accepting Bitcoin.
1235
01:45:36.430 --> 01:45:41.330
It's gonna be cool. So, yeah, go out go out and support them. Santos, you'll be there too?
1236
01:45:41.905 --> 01:45:50.085
Yep. Definitely gonna be there. Well, Santos, I look forward to meeting you in person. Michael and Brian, I look forward to kicking it with you in person again.
1237
01:45:51.020 --> 01:45:57.679
So I guess, Michael, like, people should download Oshi app before they go to Miami so they can see which merchants are available there.
1238
01:45:58.175 --> 01:46:06.355
Yeah. They should. Yeah. If if you guys, you know, are interested in, you know, slinging some stats around to local businesses, then, yeah, you should check out the OCF.
1239
01:46:06.750 --> 01:46:12.530
Should should I show your code, Matt? Yeah. Show show my scam code. It's a scam code. So oshi.tech/odell.
1240
01:46:15.255 --> 01:46:19.115
If you wanna support the show. I joke around that all reps are scams, but,
1241
01:46:20.215 --> 01:46:26.989
Hey. This one is gonna support, you know, whatever you want it to support, Matt. So whether it's sealed up dispatch or open Support sealed dispatch and,
1242
01:46:28.030 --> 01:46:55.765
Bitcoin circular economy. 2 not 2 noble goals. I would say the circular economy is a more noble goal, but I I think the money needs to go to Matt because we need Matt to be acquiring laundromats and Dude, I'm not buying any Fiat businesses. Brian, you could buy No. And then you convert them into Bitcoin and then you can dude, we're this is gonna be a show this is gonna be a show on CNBC. It's gonna be, like, the sit the bar rescue, but it's gonna be Fiat business rescue and biz Bitcoin business owners are gonna go in and help people.
1243
01:46:57.130 --> 01:47:03.310
Okay, guys. If you use if you use my ref link, I will put the stats away, and maybe I'll buy a laundromat in the future
1244
01:47:04.090 --> 01:47:05.950
and convert it to a Bitcoin standard.
1245
01:47:06.315 --> 01:47:07.135
Yes. No promises.
1246
01:47:08.554 --> 01:47:10.655
I love all you guys. This is a great conversation.
1247
01:47:11.114 --> 01:47:15.375
Thank you to all the freaks who joined us. I hope you found this conversation as helpful
1248
01:47:16.170 --> 01:47:16.830
and as
1249
01:47:17.290 --> 01:47:19.070
as interesting as I did.
1250
01:47:19.770 --> 01:47:22.989
Reminder, next week's dispatch will be in person in Miami.
1251
01:47:23.645 --> 01:47:26.145
If you wanna join us for that, that's still dispatch.com/miami.
1252
01:47:29.005 --> 01:47:33.340
Space is limited. Drinks will be included so we can kick it and have a good time.
1253
01:47:34.520 --> 01:47:41.765
I'm not sure if I'm gonna be able to broadcast that live. I'm gonna try to if I can. If not, it'll be posted, you know, immediately following,
1254
01:47:42.145 --> 01:47:43.125
the live conversation.
1255
01:47:45.345 --> 01:47:50.725
Yep. With all that said, thanks to our guests one more time, and thanks to the freaks. Cheers, guys.
1256
01:47:53.190 --> 01:47:54.330
Cheers. Thank you.
1257
01:51:58.195 --> 01:51:58.695
Very.
1258
01:52:00.915 --> 01:52:01.735
Thank you.
1259
01:52:04.610 --> 01:52:09.510
Love you, freaks. Looking forward to kicking with you all in Miami. Stay humble, Stack Sats.
NOTE
Transcription provided by Podhome.fm
Created: 3/17/2024 4:28:16 PM
Duration: 6731.834
Channels: 1
1
00:00:01.599 --> 00:00:06.740
2
00:00:07.575 --> 00:00:09.675
Bitcoin as a payment,
3
00:00:10.695 --> 00:00:11.195
for
4
00:00:11.735 --> 00:00:12.795
their energy,
5
00:00:13.255 --> 00:00:13.755
resources.
6
00:00:14.700 --> 00:00:19.119
What does that say to you about where we are in the crypto conversation?
7
00:00:20.460 --> 00:00:22.080
8
00:00:22.635 --> 00:00:24.975
grown by leaps and bounds, and,
9
00:00:26.235 --> 00:00:31.350
it's now playing a significant role, not really so much in transactions
10
00:00:31.890 --> 00:00:35.430
Right. But in investment decisions of lots of Americans.
11
00:00:36.050 --> 00:00:36.550
And,
12
00:00:37.925 --> 00:00:40.665
the president just issued a couple of weeks ago
13
00:00:41.045 --> 00:00:42.425
an executive order
14
00:00:42.805 --> 00:00:44.665
tasking us and other agencies
15
00:00:45.445 --> 00:00:45.945
with
16
00:00:46.320 --> 00:00:48.260
thinking about the regulation
17
00:00:48.640 --> 00:00:58.645
18
00:00:59.105 --> 00:01:00.165
19
00:01:01.185 --> 00:01:06.820
there are, I think, valid concerns around it. Some have to do with financial stability,
20
00:01:07.600 --> 00:01:08.100
consumer
21
00:01:08.560 --> 00:01:09.700
investor protection,
22
00:01:10.880 --> 00:01:12.580
use for illicit transactions,
23
00:01:12.880 --> 00:01:15.625
and other things. On the other hand, there are benefits
24
00:01:16.085 --> 00:01:19.145
from crypto, and we recognize that innovation
25
00:01:19.845 --> 00:01:21.305
in the payment system
26
00:01:21.685 --> 00:01:24.720
can be a healthy thing. We would like to,
27
00:01:25.580 --> 00:01:27.360
come out eventually with recommendations
28
00:01:28.540 --> 00:01:29.040
that,
29
00:01:29.820 --> 00:01:31.360
will create a regulatory
30
00:01:31.900 --> 00:01:35.555
environment in which healthy innovation can get. And finally,
31
00:02:08.965 --> 00:02:14.265
32
00:02:14.950 --> 00:02:18.410
If you're listening to this after the fact on the podcast feeds,
33
00:02:19.110 --> 00:02:19.850
that was
34
00:02:20.230 --> 00:02:24.535
treasury secretary Yellen talking about a Bitcoin circular economy on CNBC
35
00:02:24.915 --> 00:02:25.575
this week.
36
00:02:26.195 --> 00:02:32.135
Citadel Dispatch is an interactive live show about Bitcoin distributed systems, privacy, and open source software.
37
00:02:33.690 --> 00:02:40.030
I appreciate all the freaks who continue to support the show. Dispatch is a 100% audience funded without ads or sponsors.
38
00:02:41.305 --> 00:02:43.245
Could not happen without your support,
39
00:02:43.625 --> 00:02:44.125
keeping
40
00:02:44.585 --> 00:02:48.285
dispatch purely focused on actionable Bitcoin discussion and Freedom Tech.
41
00:02:48.890 --> 00:02:52.030
The easiest way to support the show is through podcasting 2.0.
42
00:02:53.210 --> 00:02:57.310
My two favorite podcasting 2.0 apps are Breeze and Fountain Podcasts.
43
00:02:57.705 --> 00:02:59.965
They work like a regular podcasting app,
44
00:03:00.345 --> 00:03:03.805
but you load them up with sats. You choose how many sats per minute
45
00:03:04.185 --> 00:03:08.930
dispatch is worth to you, and those sats stream directly to my note as you're listening.
46
00:03:09.709 --> 00:03:13.730
Another way to support the show is through my BTC pay server, which is at sedildispatch.com.
47
00:03:15.035 --> 00:03:17.055
You can support with Onchain or Lightning.
48
00:03:17.595 --> 00:03:20.655
I also have a BIP 47 payment code and associated
49
00:03:21.035 --> 00:03:23.775
samurai pay NIM, which you can pay from
50
00:03:24.090 --> 00:03:26.190
Sparrow Wallet or Samurai Wallet.
51
00:03:27.050 --> 00:03:28.990
You can also find that on civil dispatch.com.
52
00:03:29.530 --> 00:03:31.550
Hopefully, other wallets will join soon.
53
00:03:34.815 --> 00:03:38.435
Dispatch is broadcast on Twitch, Twitter, and Bitcoin TV.
54
00:03:39.270 --> 00:03:41.610
Bitcoin TV holds all the video archives.
55
00:03:41.990 --> 00:03:49.525
You can also find all the audio archives on your favorite podcast app. It doesn't have to be a podcasting 2.0 app. I've heard some issues
56
00:03:49.825 --> 00:03:50.325
with
57
00:03:50.945 --> 00:03:58.670
fountain podcasts. I've experienced it myself as well. It is definitely still early in development over there. They are listening to your concerns.
58
00:04:00.410 --> 00:04:03.905
Just to be absolutely clear, my single favorite podcasting app
59
00:04:04.385 --> 00:04:05.125
is antennapod.
60
00:04:05.425 --> 00:04:11.765
Hopefully, they will add podcasting 2.0 at some time. But if you're looking for a good podcasting app that's free and open source software,
61
00:04:12.130 --> 00:04:15.270
highly recommended Tenopod, works really well on Calix and Graphene,
62
00:04:16.210 --> 00:04:23.705
and just general Android phones. I don't think it's available on iPhone. And if you still wanna support the show in that situation, you can use the BTC pay server
63
00:04:24.885 --> 00:04:27.065
or my bit 47 payment code.
64
00:04:28.460 --> 00:04:32.639
With all that said, before we get started, I also have a special announcement
65
00:04:33.020 --> 00:04:33.520
that
66
00:04:34.060 --> 00:04:37.120
a bunch of us are gonna be in Miami, obviously, for Bitcoin 2022.
67
00:04:38.415 --> 00:04:41.395
I will be doing a live Citadel dispatch there
68
00:04:42.014 --> 00:04:43.155
on April 5th,
69
00:04:43.695 --> 00:04:48.310
the anniversary of executive order 6102 when FDR tried steal everyone's gold,
70
00:04:48.930 --> 00:04:53.110
which also happens to be Satoshi's symbolic birthday. It'll be at 2 PM,
71
00:04:53.570 --> 00:04:56.790
same venue as bit devs right before bit devs, so it'll be
72
00:04:57.895 --> 00:05:01.355
that at for an hour. It's still dispatch for an hour, we open up,
73
00:05:01.735 --> 00:05:02.475
and then
74
00:05:02.935 --> 00:05:08.750
there's, like, a 45 minute little happy hour there, and then bit devs happen. So if you're interested in that, that's sidleldispatch.com/miami.
75
00:05:10.970 --> 00:05:13.230
I'm charging a 100,000 sats for that,
76
00:05:13.974 --> 00:05:15.675
includes entry and free drinks.
77
00:05:16.375 --> 00:05:20.474
So once I get that venue covered, I'm just gonna basically come in with, like, cases of beer
78
00:05:20.830 --> 00:05:24.530
and ranch water and maybe some regular water so people stay hydrated.
79
00:05:25.870 --> 00:05:34.895
And maybe there'll be a little bit left over that will go towards supporting the show, but I'm trying to keep it obviously as as low cost as possible. To you Fiat Maxi's out there,
80
00:05:35.730 --> 00:05:40.390
when I listed it at a 100,000 sats, that was about $42. Now it's about $48.
81
00:05:42.050 --> 00:05:47.675
So with all that said, we have a really great show today. It's focused on building a Bitcoin circular economy.
82
00:05:48.375 --> 00:05:51.675
A lot of you guys have probably heard me talk about this in the past.
83
00:05:52.340 --> 00:05:56.840
A key aspect of our threat model when we talk about Bitcoin and privacy
84
00:05:57.540 --> 00:06:02.365
is this whole idea of KYC onramps, these regulated onramps that are keeping
85
00:06:02.985 --> 00:06:05.725
extensive lists of Bitcoiners in our transaction history.
86
00:06:06.985 --> 00:06:08.365
Privacy tools help.
87
00:06:09.690 --> 00:06:10.830
Learning how to
88
00:06:12.010 --> 00:06:13.630
obtain Bitcoin without
89
00:06:14.570 --> 00:06:19.150
those burdensome KYC regulations that often put Bitcoiners at risk help.
90
00:06:19.455 --> 00:06:27.235
But long term, what really will help is a proper Bitcoin circular economy where people aren't buying Bitcoin. They are earning Bitcoin.
91
00:06:27.569 --> 00:06:30.630
They're not selling Bitcoin, they're spending Bitcoin. It distributes,
92
00:06:32.530 --> 00:06:34.710
us away from these central points of failure.
93
00:06:35.625 --> 00:06:45.740
So with that topic in mind, we have a great group of panelists that are been very focused on build making this vision a reality sooner rather than later. I personally think that,
94
00:06:46.760 --> 00:06:53.100
the circular economy is somewhat inevitable, but the question is, how long does it take us to get there? And and these
95
00:06:53.955 --> 00:06:57.014
these great dudes have been trying to make that reality
96
00:06:57.395 --> 00:07:00.215
way quicker than it otherwise would be. So
97
00:07:00.520 --> 00:07:03.820
first off, we have Brian Harrington here. Brian, how's it going?
98
00:07:04.280 --> 00:07:09.180
99
00:07:09.625 --> 00:07:15.165
are both both so important, and that's how we win. Let's fucking go. Brian is focused on
100
00:07:15.705 --> 00:07:16.205
101
00:07:17.050 --> 00:07:20.669
you know, helping grow the Bitcoin circular economy in Southern California.
102
00:07:21.449 --> 00:07:23.150
We have Santos here,
103
00:07:24.169 --> 00:07:25.470
from Chamber of Satoshi
104
00:07:26.224 --> 00:07:30.085
focused on building the Bitcoin circular economy in Arizona. How's it going, Santos?
105
00:07:31.104 --> 00:07:32.884
106
00:07:33.185 --> 00:07:35.444
I think there's more ways to earn Sats
107
00:07:35.770 --> 00:07:36.509
than ever.
108
00:07:37.530 --> 00:07:38.750
109
00:07:39.210 --> 00:07:40.750
And we have Michael
110
00:07:41.129 --> 00:07:48.415
from Ocea app, which is a project that is specifically designed to to build out the Bitcoin circular economy. How's it going, Michael?
111
00:07:49.675 --> 00:07:51.355
112
00:07:51.835 --> 00:07:53.455
thanks for having me. Yeah.
113
00:07:53.770 --> 00:07:55.870
I I can't wait to talk about why bcommerce
114
00:07:56.330 --> 00:08:01.710
is so much better than any other form of commerce out there. You just call it bcommerce?
115
00:08:02.855 --> 00:08:03.355
Bcommerce.
116
00:08:04.055 --> 00:08:07.035
117
00:08:07.495 --> 00:08:09.035
118
00:08:10.730 --> 00:08:17.550
119
00:08:18.605 --> 00:08:20.365
120
00:08:20.765 --> 00:08:25.825
but don't worry. Don't worry. We'll be able to buy it off from there. You're lucky I even asked. I was just gonna just
121
00:08:26.130 --> 00:08:29.590
122
00:08:31.170 --> 00:08:37.665
123
00:08:38.845 --> 00:08:43.985
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I don't know. Let's just start with Michael. Michael, when you look at, you know, trying to grow the pie and get more businesses to start accepting Bitcoin, you know, how do you frame it? How do you think about it?
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You know, what what is, you know, what is your framing here?
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most businesses do not care.
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They they don't. Right. Like, they have enough to worry about their,
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you know, labor costs are going up, if they could even find labor,
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their rents going up. They have a ton of problems,
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and how I frame it is, hey, like, how about we bring you
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more customers? How about you offer your customers Bitcoin rewards to actually incentivize people to spend
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Bitcoin,
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while also getting people to earn Bitcoin
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and getting businesses to
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potentially hold the Bitcoin,
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utilize
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utilizing the network and the asset if they want, or, they can utilize the network without actually holding on to the asset. It's their it's their choice.
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so when you say they can utilize
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the network without holding the asset, you mean just immediately convert to USD?
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But just having, I guess, you could say, like, that backboard as they're just dipping their toes into Bitcoin is really helpful.
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Just giving them that option to say, hey. Like, I know you have a business to run.
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Maybe you're you'd be interested in converting a certain portion of this to dollars.
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Again, you know, that's not what I recommend, but the reality is these businesses,
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have bills to pay and they have businesses to run. So they're still often having to pay these fiat based bills. So,
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it does help to have that option for them. And specifically with Oshi
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so, I mean, why don't you just go into real quick, like, what is Oshi?
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We can get them set up with a Bitcoin payment provider of their choice, whether that's, you know, OpenNode or Ibex or even their own b t z pay server,
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on the slim chance that that these, you know, businesses
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have one of those.
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We can get them connected to our platform,
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via just invoice API keys, and,
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they're effectively able to promote their products and services by offering Bitcoin rewards. So if you wanna
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purchase your, you know, sell a coffee, you can say, dude, yeah, we're gonna do, like, 5% back in Bitcoin
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rewards
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if you purchase this coffee, you know, using,
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say, either your own Bitcoin lightning wallet or using strike or what whatever the customer wants to use. Right?
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We're definitely not here to to make perfect be the enemy of good.
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Sorry to continue.
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is is then incentivized to actually want to participate in the Bitcoin economy because there is an incentive,
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because the novelty of payments,
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you know, you know, sending and receiving Bitcoin payments wears off over time, and then it's just effectively sending money regardless of how profound,
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you know, the Bitcoin network is.
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And
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the
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the,
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yeah, just that excitement wears off and then the
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ideology of Bitcoiners, you know, all over the world,
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that will only get us so far in terms of,
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you know,
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get making the Bitcoin circular economy go around. So So when I when I open the Oshi app,
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Right? I guess it it pulls my location. There's a map, and then I can
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see which
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where there's Oshi merchants and how what they offer
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Sats back I get. Right?
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Exactly. Yeah. Now do you
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we've in general, on the show, we don't like location permissions. Or do you have any intention of monetizing
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our data or storing our data or location data?
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Okay. By all means, you can please turn that off if if you don't want it. It's only, you know, whenever we see a lot of people using the app because in general,
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like I said, the
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ideological,
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you know, users and the people that just wanna spend Bitcoin as a novelty,
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that will that will kind of run dry. You have to provide a really awesome experience for users. And oftentimes, whenever they open up the app for the first time,
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they're, like, trying to find businesses near them.
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And,
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if if they can't see that little blue dot on their map that shows where they are. The blue dot. Yeah. People freak out. They're like, where am I? Where are these businesses?
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Like, so
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we just added that as a as an opt in kind of thing. Fair enough.
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are any of your merchants Bitcoin only?
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there actually are quite a few of them. I would say most of them are just holding the Bitcoin.
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credit card, that only accept Bitcoin?
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Well, okay. In El Salvador, yes. We do have some merchants in El Salvador. You have Oshi merchants in El Salvador? We have some Oshi merchants in El Salvador. Yeah. We were kinda testing it out down there. Your fucking hustler.
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You you could you can buy, you know, fresh coconut water for, for a dollar 25 on Oshi. And this guy who's never accepted a digital payment before in his life, he's always operated on cash. He's been, you know, unable to participate in any sort of digital economy
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his entire life
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To me, like, the incentives to to spend Bitcoin
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are, I guess, with the addition of Ocea app now is threefold.
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It's
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because I'm looking for a more private spending option. You know? If I can spend in cash, then, obviously, cash is the most private. But if it's between credit card or Bitcoin, you can get a privacy gain from spending with Bitcoin.
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The second reason, which is probably one of the more common reasons, is the merchant just only accepts Bitcoin.
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So for instance, you know, if you wanna go to the Citadel dispatch live event in Miami,
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I do not accept fiat. So you have to either decide to send me SADs or not come.
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Same with, you know, the Nodl, for instance. If you wanna buy a Nodl node, you can't pay with credit card. You have to pay with Bitcoin.
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And then I guess the third reason is Sats back. I mean, everyone loves a good discount. Some of your discounts are very in very intense, whether I've seen, like, 40%, 50% discounts.
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I guess they're not discounts. They're stats back. Technically, it's
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a important nuance. But Right. I guess those would be the 3 main reasons.
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So that's why I asked that question.
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Yeah. And, also, what I was thinking is, you know, I don't know if you guys remember, but in 2013
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I mean, I don't know if you guys were around in, like, 2013 or 20 14, 2015. Before the b cash hard fork happened, a lot of the b cashers were very pro Bitcoin circular economy.
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And but what happened was it was all onboarding towards, like, BitPay and stuff where people were just
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where the merchants were auto selling for Fiat. And I I understand that there's a there's a point there in that, you know, businesses have Fiat expenses,
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but
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there's
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well, you know, one of the things I like about how Ibex and OpenNode work
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as opposed to BitPay is that you can have, like like, on OpenNode, they have, like, a slider. Like, you decide, you know, I wanna keep 70% of Bitcoin, 30% in fiat or something because I have my expenses.
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But I just felt like it wasn't it wasn't like the merchants were actually being convinced of, like, the benefits of of Bitcoin. They were just being convinced that, like, bit Bitpay could onboard them really easily,
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and they just it wasn't sticky or anything. And it was just, like, I was just, you know, why do I wanna pay, like, my AT and T bill with Bitcoin and just have them auto dump it for Fiat through, like, a regulated party that hates Bitcoin?
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Can I jump off that? Yeah. So, Brian, just real quick. Like, I forgot to tell you guys ahead of time. Like, don't consider me the host. All you guys Yeah. Should just jump in and out. Feel free to go. Yeah. Alright. Let me jump off that and hit just a few high things that, like, I wanna say.
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the
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OG Bitcoiners
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were great at talking about Bitcoin.
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They were not great at talking about personal finance. Okay. Why does this matter for Circular Economy? And the why does this matter for Circular Economy? Because
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the then you're right. And when the b cash fork happened,
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we, I think, are just now only now realizing
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the the, like, social layer impact of that as well because we lost a lot of that circular economy and momentum. So super, like, in
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in my whole theme of 2022, I've been trying to just, like, leave all baggage behind and just start from where we are. Because the other thing was Circular Economy that, like, dude, the lockdowns radicalized me on Circular Economy. Like, I don't I don't appreciate,
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like, the way that we were, like, treated
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by, like, people in power. And so it really needs to be like a Bitcoin is happening right now in person and needs to, like, start creating,
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like and it is creating, like, value and freedom for people right now in person. But that's what kind of got me down this path of, like, I don't love saying, like, we're so early anymore because saying we're so early, I feel like just comes across as, like, very, like, apathetic.
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Like and because we do humans do have the ability to, like, impact the world. And so there's all that combined with, yes, the be cash hard fork.
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We lost some of that social momentum of those people that wanted to see Bitcoin replace fiat,
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like, in transactions. Okay. And then I can't fully, like, put it on the OGs of not being good at personal finance because what has happened since then? What has happened since then is that the apps have come such a long way. Like,
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the the apps have come so far to where if Stripe and Cash App are gonna continue to pay
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athletes
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to use the word paycheck and Bitcoin in the same sentence, and this whole pay me in Bitcoin thing is happening.
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Then when normies normies already
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will ask you when you talk about Bitcoin. Hey. Bitcoin's like, it's a big deal. It's taking over. Oh, yeah. Well, how can I spend it at Walmart? That normie is not trying to, like, needle you and be like, oh, it's never gonna work. Can't use it. They're not trying to say that. They're not asking for a lecture in Austrian economics. They're asking you to tell them how to do business outside of the dollar. Like, I think what's wild is that normies and, like,
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hardcore, like, Bitcoiners that wanna watch, like, Bitcoin or place fiat are actually more on the same page than we give them credit for. So, like, I don't think, like yeah. I just I think by normies being ready to, like, spend Bitcoin, they don't need, like, a lecture. They just need to you just need to tell them, like, when and where they could do it. And then just closing kind of a little bit again on this personal finance thing, it's the tools are now here for you to take 100% of your paycheck in Bitcoin, and the math is now here.
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The holding peer like, the the inflation
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per day on the dollar is is, like, closing the reasons for holding dollars at all, even for a week. And so what's wild and combined with number go up, obviously.
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But so what's wild is that,
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like, we think we think
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that by using dollars as our checking account and using Bitcoin as our savings account, we're savings on taxes, and we're also, like, causing number go up because we're not selling back for fiat. I don't I don't think either of those things are true anymore. I think, actually, in a weird way, by taking 100% of your paycheck in Bitcoin and then buying the foreign currency dollars when and if you need it, you're actually,
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like, you're then net sitting on more stats for more days per year, which is literally making your family wealthier.
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And none of that was there back in, like, any so the tools weren't there. The inflation wasn't there. Like, that's why this whole thing is, like, coming full circle.
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Because the tools are now here for you to 100%
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hold Bitcoin as your base money. The financial incentive is here to do it as your base money.
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And then
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then we can talk about, yes, all the game theory of the merchants getting to the point where it's like, hey,
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yeah. Like, due to COVID and due to the lockdowns and due to rising inflation, like, we accept Bitcoin now. Like, please pay with this or pay a higher price to use fiat. Like, so, but it because people love to say, people love to say it doesn't make economic sense to spend your Bitcoin, so just huddle your Bitcoin. Okay. But then what if there's actually the economic incentive to get paid a 100% Bitcoin
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and still eat the cap gains,
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because
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number go up is actually, like, going up enough to even cover the cap gains and your families ending wealthier.
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Yeah. Or when you spend it. And I think what I think is gonna happen is
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so with Cash App wants to be your bank. NYDIG is partnering with Credit Unions. Strike wants to be your bank. Fold wants to be your bank. And there's this thing where it's like, what do we even use banks for? Wells Fargo, like,
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Chase, Bank of America,
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the really only thing we actually use them for is they're an ACH portal. We we all Bitcoiners need to learn about the ACH network.
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Like, in in because
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the ACH network is the only thing we use banks for. But now all these Bitcoin apps are now adding in like ACH portals to where you can receive your paycheck directly in Bitcoin. And so they also are going to all add, I feel like they're all going to add ACH out. So you're gonna be able to hold your Bitcoin up until the very last day that your mortgage is due and then ACH out into,
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your mortgage payment. And then that Bitcoin checking account will spit out
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a regular, like, report that then you plug into TurboTax. And so, yes, your
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Bitcoin and right now I'm, like, diving into the personal finance element of it. What I'm trying I understand that a lot of this will run counter to, like, some other,
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like, ways of seeing Bitcoin. What I'm trying to demonstrate is that from a personal finance
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on paper Bitcoin checking account perspective,
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you can beat the capital gains taxes and still end the year wealthier because I believe that's then a flywheel for more and more businesses jumping onto this, which then provides cover for those that are using Bitcoin in different ways to still shop at those same merchants. So it's still like,
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I, I have this whole thing in general that I actually believe that like suits and anarchists are, like, more on the same team than they give themselves credit for. So just understand that with a lot of what I'm saying. But so I believe the math is there for Bitcoin checking accounts.
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and hold a 100% of your money in Bitcoin
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and become comfortable with either buying the foreign currency dollars with it or buying something directly with it. And I no longer believe that, like, buying the foreign currency dollars,
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causes the number to go down. I used to believe that, but I don't believe that anymore. My favorite part about, like, the whole argument about holding, you know, a 100%
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is, like, the argument on Twitter was between people who hold, like, 98% Bitcoin and a 100% Bitcoin, and they just argued over the 2%, like, vehemently.
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like, I think I think,
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like, that last part of, like, paying your mortgage with it, I definitely think, like, changes brain cells. I think it changes brain cells.
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Well, you know, what what have they said that you agree with? You know, how do you how do you think about it? And what do you disagree with?
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I worked at Bank of America in 2015 and then quit my job. I had discovered Bitcoin, and, you know, I didn't wanna work in that industry anymore.
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So I taught myself.
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So I did preferred sales prior to leaving, and it was mainly, like, tailoring the bank's benefits.
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So when you look at lightning,
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as a as a payment layer, it's superior nearly in every respect because,
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one, banks can shut off your account at any given time to conduct a financial review.
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I I worked in a risk department before that did that, and,
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you don't have to worry about that if you're essentially, like, managing your own funds.
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So I think about it from that perspective. Like, you you don't have to worry about your accounts payable nearly as much. And then you think about it from the payment processing side.
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You know, Stripe charges 3% plus 30¢.
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Square Terminal charges 3% plus 10¢.
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Even using, like, a lightning service provider, you can lower your cost to 1%,
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which is massive,
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especially if you're doing anywhere between $5.10
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transactions.
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That lowers it from roughly 9%, 10%.
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So then you also don't carry the risk
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of, like, fraud
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or billing disputes, which often as a merchant, even if someone's submitting a a legitimate report, those funds are taken out of your account anywhere between 30 60 days. It's just debited
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while the bank continues to to review that. So merchants understand this. They have to deal with this on a frequent basis. And if you can explain to them, well, you're not only gonna reduce your operating costs
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and keep more of the money for the value that you're producing,
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you're also,
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going to lower your risk dramatically.
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So that's kind of the way that,
321
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I think about,
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payments,
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00:27:30.125 --> 00:27:31.024
using Bitcoin.
324
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325
00:27:39.075 --> 00:27:45.975
I mean, like, I know in, like, the Austin area, there's a surprisingly amount of of no cash businesses. Do you guys see that,
326
00:27:47.140 --> 00:27:54.920
like, most of the time you're really Bitcoin's competing against credit cards and not cash, and cash has kinda just disappeared from the equation for the most part?
327
00:27:55.395 --> 00:27:56.375
328
00:27:57.155 --> 00:28:05.800
particularly like paying with credit cards because of the benefits associated with them, such as rewards, you know, fraud protection, those sort of things.
329
00:28:06.340 --> 00:28:08.280
And, I think with cash,
330
00:28:08.660 --> 00:28:11.080
like, it's a bit outside of the circular
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economy. I think of the circular economy as, like, earn and spend,
332
00:28:16.054 --> 00:28:17.355
completely in SaaS.
333
00:28:17.815 --> 00:28:24.340
And outside of it, you have Fiat to Bitcoin kind of conversions, which I think, like, what we're kinda experimenting with,
334
00:28:24.720 --> 00:28:28.260
one of our partners at the chambers of Potosi and the Arizona Bitcoin network.
335
00:28:29.505 --> 00:28:32.165
They they basically provide a SECO terminals,
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00:28:32.865 --> 00:28:36.485
to merchants and meet up members with very low risk. So then
337
00:28:36.790 --> 00:28:38.010
people that have never,
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00:28:38.470 --> 00:28:40.010
ex you you know, used Bitcoin,
339
00:28:40.390 --> 00:28:43.530
never really learned much about it, can now get onboarded,
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00:28:43.990 --> 00:28:46.304
on chain or lightning with essentially,
341
00:28:46.924 --> 00:29:07.125
there's no KYC that's required. It's just a cash exchange. So I see that that then at that point, they can use cash to purchase Saks, which they can use, like, l n basically, it's an LNUR withdrawal and a receipt. They can scan and load into whatever their their choice of lightning wallet can be or have it sent to, like, an on chain address and then enter,
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00:29:09.185 --> 00:29:18.040
the the circular Bitcoin economy. So that that's how, like, I'm imagining it and how we're setting up the Satoshi day, which is, an event celebrate,
343
00:29:18.600 --> 00:29:19.100
celebrating,
344
00:29:20.155 --> 00:29:22.095
a business beginning to accept Bitcoin.
345
00:29:23.195 --> 00:29:25.535
So I I I don't really see it competing
346
00:29:25.915 --> 00:29:28.415
as much with cash because then you can even,
347
00:29:29.070 --> 00:29:33.090
have your operating costs lower. But I think the problem with cash is the friction,
348
00:29:33.870 --> 00:29:42.515
that it has. So with lightning, the payment flow is also better. One of the worst experiences you can have and may a big complaint by consumers
349
00:29:42.975 --> 00:29:49.000
is, like, point of sale decline. With lightning, you you don't have to worry about that, especially, if you're using,
350
00:29:49.539 --> 00:29:55.720
a lightning service provider or you have a self hosted solution where you know how to do to do the channel management.
351
00:29:56.544 --> 00:30:01.044
352
00:30:02.065 --> 00:30:05.270
you know, for for 1000 of years, like, let's let's just say
353
00:30:05.750 --> 00:30:07.850
the past few decades has been an anomaly.
354
00:30:08.390 --> 00:30:11.850
Okay? Like, in terms of the the Internet spread it up, everything,
355
00:30:12.870 --> 00:30:13.850
is now digital,
356
00:30:14.195 --> 00:30:19.495
Payments are now digital. To participate in ecommerce, you have to have a debit or credit card, generally speaking.
357
00:30:21.210 --> 00:30:30.990
For 1000 of years, that was not the case. Right? Commerce occurred between the buyer and seller without any financial intermediaries, without any payment processors, for 0% processing fees.
358
00:30:31.755 --> 00:30:34.815
Settlement was final. It was instant. There were no chargebacks,
359
00:30:35.275 --> 00:30:46.200
right, unless you wanted to, like, beat the dude up after you handed him your money or whatever. So, like which is inherently risky. Today, people can just call up the bank for whatever reason they want, and they can charge it back.
360
00:30:46.660 --> 00:30:48.200
So my point here is that
361
00:30:48.660 --> 00:30:49.160
what
362
00:30:49.775 --> 00:30:52.275
Bitcoin, you know, and and Lightning specifically
363
00:30:52.655 --> 00:30:53.155
enables,
364
00:30:53.775 --> 00:31:01.120
at the very least, like, at the protocol level is for, you know, near instant, near free settlement. Now currently, we're using these different,
365
00:31:01.500 --> 00:31:05.835
third parties that are providing a valuable service. Right? Like, let's say, OpenNode or Ibex,
366
00:31:06.955 --> 00:31:10.895
you know, or or, like, you use Voltage maybe and you you spin up your own node there. Like,
367
00:31:11.434 --> 00:31:19.750
they are providing a very valuable service to help you process these payments. But for all intents and purposes, like, as we all know, Bitcoin is digital peer to peer cash,
368
00:31:20.055 --> 00:31:27.595
and we are reinstating that, like, right before our very eyes. And this is where I like to talk about this whole, like, b commerce, ecommerce thing.
369
00:31:27.929 --> 00:31:33.549
Like, most of the world cannot participate in any form of ecommerce, and even in the developed world,
370
00:31:33.850 --> 00:31:35.230
they barely participate.
371
00:31:35.605 --> 00:31:39.865
Like, the small businesses are getting fucked. Like, they have access to participate.
372
00:31:40.245 --> 00:31:46.169
They can use a bunch of different third party services to participate. Like, let's say, small restaurants, coffee shops, they could use
373
00:31:46.630 --> 00:31:54.570
DoorDash or Grubhub or all these things that are charging them anywhere from, like, 10 to 30%, let's say, just to participate in ecommerce because
374
00:31:55.225 --> 00:32:02.044
people aren't really going to their website. Right? They're not really going or reading their email blasts as, like, this
375
00:32:02.590 --> 00:32:04.289
single small business. Right?
376
00:32:05.390 --> 00:32:07.650
Anyway, with that being said, like, roughly,
377
00:32:09.150 --> 00:32:11.250
15% of all retail commerce
378
00:32:11.845 --> 00:32:14.825
is done online in the United States. That's it.
379
00:32:15.285 --> 00:32:15.785
15%
380
00:32:16.245 --> 00:32:16.965
of online
381
00:32:17.365 --> 00:32:19.785
of retail commerce is done online. 85%
382
00:32:21.490 --> 00:32:23.429
does not do not participate,
383
00:32:23.730 --> 00:32:24.230
right,
384
00:32:25.170 --> 00:32:25.990
in ecommerce
385
00:32:27.090 --> 00:32:32.835
or not know, obviously, 85% of retail sales Or 85% of the store. There's a brick and mortar.
386
00:32:33.215 --> 00:32:39.059
Let's just say, I would I mean, basically, with the swipe of a card or handing somebody cash, 85%.
387
00:32:40.400 --> 00:32:42.660
And this is, like, in the most, you know, technologically
388
00:32:43.039 --> 00:32:54.490
389
00:32:55.030 --> 00:33:00.809
390
00:33:01.735 --> 00:33:03.275
ecommerce jumped up 30%,
391
00:33:03.655 --> 00:33:18.170
and businesses were forced to effectively, you know, pay these higher fees to participate in ecommerce because it's inherently more expensive as well to accept debit or credit cards online than it is to swipe the card in store. And this is where ecommerce comes in because for the first time
392
00:33:18.554 --> 00:33:21.615
ever, it's actually cheaper to accept an online payment
393
00:33:22.155 --> 00:33:24.255
online than it is in store.
394
00:33:24.635 --> 00:33:31.010
The settlement is near instant. It's near free depending on how you choose to go about accepting that Bitcoin payment.
395
00:33:31.470 --> 00:33:36.450
And in my opinion, this is going to be like this is b commerce. Like, this is going to revolutionize
396
00:33:37.774 --> 00:33:44.434
how we see ecommerce. There are people in countries that have never had access to debit and credit cards at all are now able
397
00:33:44.735 --> 00:33:46.195
to accept online payments.
398
00:33:46.740 --> 00:33:53.400
Like, it is going to be insane. And it's it's basically the reinstatement of a cash like, you know, money
399
00:33:53.845 --> 00:33:56.905
in the digital world, and that's, like, fucking exciting.
400
00:33:57.685 --> 00:34:00.345
401
00:34:00.725 --> 00:34:01.225
100%
402
00:34:01.525 --> 00:34:02.485
agree. One thing that,
403
00:34:03.300 --> 00:34:12.955
one of the merchants that we partnered with, Beal Beans, one thing that really resonated with them is they have all kinds of relationships with with farmers all over the world, like Brazil, Ethiopia.
404
00:34:13.495 --> 00:34:15.355
And one thing that excited them is
405
00:34:15.735 --> 00:34:23.250
they are now able to form a direct relationship. Like, their model is entirely, like, building customer relationships, farmer relationships,
406
00:34:23.710 --> 00:34:25.650
and that's how they differentiate themselves.
407
00:34:26.030 --> 00:34:30.674
So now they can use digital cash to send, you know, across borders
408
00:34:31.295 --> 00:34:31.795
directly,
409
00:34:32.895 --> 00:34:35.954
to their farmers. And now there's more ways than ever,
410
00:34:36.575 --> 00:34:38.355
to to be able to use
411
00:34:38.750 --> 00:34:44.370
that Bitcoin, and there's only gonna it's only gonna continue to grow. So now, like, they can own their relationships,
412
00:34:45.070 --> 00:34:48.715
and they can transact with whomever they want and maximize
413
00:34:49.175 --> 00:34:52.555
the value that they create. It becomes much more cooperative.
414
00:34:53.895 --> 00:34:59.420
415
00:35:01.000 --> 00:35:04.300
this there's this issue in this bootstrap phase, right, where,
416
00:35:05.365 --> 00:35:07.945
these merchants have fiat bills to pay,
417
00:35:08.645 --> 00:35:10.025
but they're receiving Bitcoin.
418
00:35:11.125 --> 00:35:11.625
Ultimately,
419
00:35:12.165 --> 00:35:17.869
the ideal situation is what you just described where they're actually able to pay their downstream suppliers
420
00:35:19.049 --> 00:35:20.990
Bitcoin for the supplies they need
421
00:35:21.805 --> 00:35:23.505
the services they need. Is
422
00:35:24.045 --> 00:35:24.545
this
423
00:35:25.085 --> 00:35:36.970
and and we kind of saw this in El Salvador because just the government mandated it, so all those businesses don't necessarily need to convert into fiat because all the other businesses have to accept Bitcoin, so they're able to pay their suppliers inherently.
424
00:35:37.585 --> 00:35:39.924
Was this something that you specifically
425
00:35:40.944 --> 00:35:48.190
set up with this merchant? Like, did you put them in contact with their suppliers, or was that just coincidental? Is that something, like, you think about connecting
426
00:35:49.290 --> 00:35:50.510
maybe 2 different
427
00:35:50.970 --> 00:35:51.470
businesses
428
00:35:51.930 --> 00:35:52.670
that can
429
00:35:53.164 --> 00:35:55.585
have basically have a circular economy with together?
430
00:35:56.525 --> 00:35:59.904
Is that a thing you consider, or is that just kinda happened?
431
00:36:01.150 --> 00:36:03.250
432
00:36:03.870 --> 00:36:12.335
That's something that Blake and I, the owner of Beal Beans, it's like a family owned, coffee roastery and and pour overs, and that's something that we've talked about,
433
00:36:12.955 --> 00:36:13.455
extensively.
434
00:36:13.915 --> 00:36:19.430
And that's something that really resonated with him is the freedom aspect of it and owning the relationship.
435
00:36:20.450 --> 00:36:24.310
It's pretty horrible to, to essentially go through, like, a wire transfer
436
00:36:24.875 --> 00:36:29.775
where the end you know, the farmer is losing out significantly on the value that they created.
437
00:36:30.635 --> 00:36:34.335
So it's really exciting to them to be able to then pay them directly.
438
00:36:34.700 --> 00:36:38.880
And we've gone over, you know, many different use cases in terms of, like, spending
439
00:36:39.340 --> 00:36:40.800
the SATs as well.
440
00:36:41.180 --> 00:36:47.194
You know, there there's more and more options that are being developed in terms of products. More regions are being covered.
441
00:36:47.575 --> 00:36:50.075
More open source tools that you can use,
442
00:36:50.950 --> 00:36:54.170
to be able to enable your customers to purchase from you.
443
00:36:54.710 --> 00:36:57.930
So I think that's kind of the the way that we've,
444
00:36:58.710 --> 00:37:01.055
discussed it and thought about it.
445
00:37:03.835 --> 00:37:08.655
446
00:37:10.140 --> 00:37:15.040
I invited him on the show, but he didn't wanna dox his voice, so he's participating in our matrix chat,
447
00:37:15.740 --> 00:37:19.645
live while the show is going on. So I just wanted to say I appreciate him and
448
00:37:20.185 --> 00:37:21.965
glad to see him in the live chat.
449
00:37:22.985 --> 00:37:23.485
Brian,
450
00:37:24.320 --> 00:37:55.194
451
00:37:57.175 --> 00:38:03.120
So you have any comments first or I was gonna let you okay. So to go off of that,
452
00:38:04.060 --> 00:38:05.600
I agree with those strategies.
453
00:38:06.535 --> 00:38:29.525
I think those strategies will only work for a certain, like, certain sec like, segment of people. Right? And I think this is the classic case of the way I liked the way when Odell was the way that b cashers were trying to talk about circular economy back in the day or just Bitcoiners in general were trying to talk about circular economy back in the day versus kind of what I'm trying to see in 2022 is kind of this blended model of, like,
454
00:38:29.984 --> 00:38:47.525
there's going to be Bitcoin checking accounts. And I know, like, coming on to Citadel Dispatch and, like, being the Bitcoin bank account guy is, like, not a great like, that doesn't make me, like, the, like, awesome guest of the day. Like but what I wanna say is, like, people running having Bitcoin bank accounts and, like,
455
00:38:47.984 --> 00:38:48.484
the,
456
00:38:48.810 --> 00:38:54.910
like, financial incentives at the personal finance level to hold the Bitcoin bank accounts and still have them be able to, like,
457
00:38:55.290 --> 00:39:00.405
print off a statement from that and get a mortgage, like, with that bank statement,
458
00:39:02.465 --> 00:39:03.525
is those people
459
00:39:03.825 --> 00:39:16.214
are still shopping at the same places that Santos is onboarding and that Michael is onboarding. And so I also had this discussion on Twitter, like, back in the day when Orange County Bitcoin Network got our 1st taco shop on it and our 1st,
460
00:39:16.915 --> 00:39:19.095
burger place on it. Some people were saying that, like,
461
00:39:19.474 --> 00:39:38.425
oh, you know, if they're using, like, open node, like, I can't use my, like, non KYC wallet to, like, shop at OpenNode. And I was like, dude, I fully disagree with that. Or there was a reverse thing where some guys were talking about if a 3 d printed gun site is, like, running BTC pay server, they were trying to say that, like, oh, strike app isn't good
462
00:39:38.750 --> 00:39:48.485
because strike has KYC. And if they pay the BTC pay server, that's bad then for the, like, gun shop owner. And I was like, again, I fully disagree with that. Like,
463
00:39:48.965 --> 00:39:50.425
Bitcoin fixes that.
464
00:39:50.805 --> 00:39:52.825
Bitcoin fixes that. It allows
465
00:39:53.445 --> 00:39:58.185
like, the very fact that someone with a Bitcoin bank account through
466
00:39:58.710 --> 00:39:59.770
whatever app
467
00:40:00.070 --> 00:40:12.325
and someone who's fully, like, non KYC running their wallet and are their own bank from their phone can buy coffee together at the same shop that chooses to either run OpenNode or run b two c pay server,
468
00:40:12.625 --> 00:40:13.845
like, that's beautiful.
469
00:40:14.145 --> 00:40:18.280
Like, that's literally beautiful, and that's Bitcoin is winning. That's commerce
470
00:40:18.900 --> 00:40:24.200
happening outside of the dollar. Like, that is then the dollar is going to lose traction,
471
00:40:24.805 --> 00:40:32.025
and more and more entrepreneurs are then going to be able to say, hey. Sorry. Dollars are no longer accepted here because,
472
00:40:32.580 --> 00:40:41.705
you know, please step out of line and go use the Bitcoin ATM. It's like you're still not up to speed. And so that's that's just the reason why I'm, like, kind of bringing the personal finance today is
473
00:40:42.105 --> 00:40:44.765
that's that's the way I see it sending traffic
474
00:40:45.225 --> 00:40:46.925
to all these businesses we're onboarding.
475
00:40:48.105 --> 00:40:53.550
476
00:40:54.090 --> 00:40:57.310
of, like, understanding and technical capability or relationships.
477
00:40:57.690 --> 00:40:58.165
It's
478
00:40:58.725 --> 00:41:04.265
there can be, like, different phases or levels to it if you kinda want to gamify it. You can start off with,
479
00:41:05.045 --> 00:41:05.705
you know,
480
00:41:06.230 --> 00:41:12.730
a custody wallet to some extent and then move on as you learn and go deeper down the rabbit hole and understand
481
00:41:13.375 --> 00:41:16.835
the different terminology, the technical aspects, the systems engineering,
482
00:41:17.295 --> 00:41:21.955
and move on to your own. And there are a lot of companies that are even making it easier and more frictionless
483
00:41:22.530 --> 00:41:37.275
to begin and explore that and to be able to start hosting or operating your own node and then to branch out to then even doing, like, a completely self hosted solution depending upon, like, the size and scale of your business and where you're conducting transactions.
484
00:41:37.815 --> 00:41:41.200
Obviously, if you're, like, an ecommerce business, you're gonna have significantly
485
00:41:41.500 --> 00:41:44.880
more traffic, and you'll need more resiliency in your notes.
486
00:41:45.579 --> 00:41:50.375
So maybe that, you know, the voltage voltage solution can be, like, fault tolerance.
487
00:41:51.075 --> 00:41:55.095
If your own cell phone solution fails, then you could forward your payment to,
488
00:41:55.609 --> 00:41:56.190
you know,
489
00:41:56.730 --> 00:41:56.890
another,
490
00:41:57.930 --> 00:42:05.375
note posted in the cloud. Or maybe if you're like a business that is brick and mortar or, like, literally person to person, in person,
491
00:42:05.755 --> 00:42:12.839
then, self hosted solution will completely cover all of your transacting needs, and you won't need to have, like, the same level of infrastructure
492
00:42:13.140 --> 00:42:13.640
requirements.
493
00:42:14.099 --> 00:42:17.720
So it's, like, amazing to Brian's point that these 2 different individuals
494
00:42:18.099 --> 00:42:32.430
all speak the same language, which is bitcoin. It doesn't, like if you look at, like, Zelle and Cash App, they cannot talk. They're not speaking the same language, even though they're still transacting in the dollar. It's essentially, like, not possible for them. But using lightning,
495
00:42:33.450 --> 00:42:37.309
and lightning address, it even makes it, like, even easier to do so,
496
00:42:37.835 --> 00:42:39.295
and speak the same language.
497
00:42:39.915 --> 00:42:43.295
498
00:42:43.915 --> 00:42:55.495
the gray market circular economies that already exist today on cash are not large enough to make a dent into, like, the establishment and clown world. Like, what
499
00:42:56.035 --> 00:42:57.735
what Bitcoin commerce
500
00:42:58.195 --> 00:43:07.050
available to everyone does and the mindset of Bitcoin commerce available to everyone does is it shifts everyone away for you from using dollars, and it creates an overlapping
501
00:43:07.430 --> 00:43:07.930
circle
502
00:43:08.230 --> 00:43:13.725
with the gray markets that are already there. And so, like, that's why I think, like, both
503
00:43:14.185 --> 00:43:15.645
anyone working on
504
00:43:16.265 --> 00:43:16.765
commerce
505
00:43:17.305 --> 00:43:20.445
in Bitcoin instead of dollars, I think is like
506
00:43:20.790 --> 00:43:25.210
that I I just think it's like the highest leverage piece of freedom, like, freedom
507
00:43:25.590 --> 00:43:31.815
things that you could do because you're physically changing brain cells and getting people to use a currency that they didn't grow up on.
508
00:43:32.435 --> 00:43:35.655
509
00:43:36.115 --> 00:43:39.970
tip of the hat to an r q crypto. He probably has, like, one of the best,
510
00:43:41.070 --> 00:43:45.250
bitcoin circular economies articles I've read to date, so definitely check that out.
511
00:43:46.680 --> 00:43:55.655
But I mean, like, Bitcoin changes people. Like, whenever I first got started on Bitcoin, like, I was doing everything wrong. I didn't know what the hell was going on. I I had, like, very little regard for privacy.
512
00:43:57.040 --> 00:44:17.730
And over the years, like, learning and understanding Bitcoin, like, it totally changes. Like Brian keeps the same, like, it changes your brain cells. Like, you're you're changing people's perspectives on things and letting people get into it, like, whatever way they're gonna get into it, but then, like, leveling up over time, like, becoming more self sovereign as an individual, like a consumer, as a business, and, like,
513
00:44:18.430 --> 00:44:20.664
leveraging the the the inherent,
514
00:44:21.125 --> 00:44:26.744
like, incentives of bitcoin, like, it's gonna be cheaper to do all of these things on your own if you're just willing
515
00:44:27.204 --> 00:44:28.265
to to, like,
516
00:44:28.730 --> 00:44:38.190
level up. Right? You're willing to learn about how to self host and about how to attain, like, KYC free coin and so on. Like and and, like, that's
517
00:44:38.715 --> 00:44:42.335
that's where it gets into the thing. Like, let's not let perfect be the enemy of good,
518
00:44:42.715 --> 00:44:43.215
obviously.
519
00:44:43.515 --> 00:44:46.495
It's like, man, people are gonna start flooding into this.
520
00:44:47.195 --> 00:44:47.695
And,
521
00:44:48.310 --> 00:44:51.690
like, I don't know, like, I'm just so bullish on how Bitcoin
522
00:44:52.870 --> 00:45:04.845
affects people. Like, the statists will inevitably no longer be statists. Like, the people that don't give a shit about privacy inevitably will. There will always there will always be statists, but, it's just gonna be dwindling
523
00:45:05.430 --> 00:45:06.270
over time. Right?
524
00:45:06.710 --> 00:45:09.369
525
00:45:09.829 --> 00:45:09.990
I
526
00:45:10.710 --> 00:45:14.329
527
00:45:14.755 --> 00:45:27.260
528
00:45:28.040 --> 00:45:34.434
But I expect it to succeed in that situation. I mean, there's a lot of good points made all around. I just wanna pull back a tiny bit
529
00:45:36.734 --> 00:45:37.954
on Brian's KYC
530
00:45:38.255 --> 00:45:38.755
comment.
531
00:45:39.970 --> 00:45:40.470
So
532
00:45:41.810 --> 00:45:42.310
you
533
00:45:42.770 --> 00:45:44.790
I I I agree with the premise
534
00:45:45.410 --> 00:45:47.590
that if a merchant is
535
00:45:47.945 --> 00:45:49.405
accepting via OpenNode
536
00:45:51.385 --> 00:45:52.205
or IBEX,
537
00:45:52.905 --> 00:45:54.845
and I have a no KYC stack,
538
00:45:55.210 --> 00:46:00.910
I can obviously continue I can use that infrastructure just as if the merchant was using BTC pay server.
539
00:46:01.530 --> 00:46:05.225
Now there's there's benefits and and negatives to the merchant.
540
00:46:05.525 --> 00:46:08.585
Obviously, the major negative to the merchant is is privacy,
541
00:46:09.340 --> 00:46:16.240
but also custodial risk. They can get their their account canceled just like they can get account their account could get canceled on
542
00:46:18.255 --> 00:46:22.515
their account could get canceled on, like, a PayPal or a Stripe or
543
00:46:23.694 --> 00:46:24.194
Square
544
00:46:25.375 --> 00:46:30.420
terminals or Toast terminals, whatever terminal the business uses, that is for Fiat.
545
00:46:31.840 --> 00:46:35.540
But let's go to the consumer side. Now on the consumer side,
546
00:46:36.255 --> 00:46:36.994
you mentioned
547
00:46:37.535 --> 00:46:38.035
specifically
548
00:46:38.895 --> 00:46:41.715
so with Lightning, what's nice about Lightning, first of all,
549
00:46:42.975 --> 00:46:44.355
to the freaks that haven't
550
00:46:46.160 --> 00:46:49.520
listened to the full sale of dispatch archives, I had a great com
551
00:46:50.080 --> 00:46:51.300
great, conversation,
552
00:46:52.320 --> 00:46:53.540
with Tony about
553
00:46:53.845 --> 00:46:56.665
Lightning privacy. I think it was episode 21,
554
00:46:58.005 --> 00:47:02.905
if you wanna go check out the nuances of Lightning privacy. But the the the on the
555
00:47:03.490 --> 00:47:05.190
big scale of Lightning privacy,
556
00:47:05.650 --> 00:47:07.430
the sender has a lot
557
00:47:08.130 --> 00:47:10.150
better privacy guarantees than the receiver.
558
00:47:11.010 --> 00:47:12.309
The so
559
00:47:12.695 --> 00:47:20.155
a lot of those pain points that, like, if you pay an open node and you potentially are are doxing yourself to a KYC merchant,
560
00:47:21.859 --> 00:47:24.520
go out the window because if you pay with lightning,
561
00:47:24.900 --> 00:47:26.440
the sender gets better privacy,
562
00:47:26.980 --> 00:47:30.280
except for one key thing, which is the memo
563
00:47:31.505 --> 00:47:33.045
and the node pub key.
564
00:47:33.505 --> 00:47:35.045
So you specifically,
565
00:47:35.345 --> 00:47:39.605
Brian, mentioned, like, supporting the 3 d gun community with strike.
566
00:47:40.160 --> 00:47:40.660
Mhmm.
567
00:47:40.960 --> 00:47:43.700
If that memo in your lightning memo says,
568
00:47:44.240 --> 00:47:47.140
you know, supporting the 3 d gun community or
569
00:47:47.494 --> 00:47:49.915
buying this Right. 3 d gun part or something.
570
00:47:50.375 --> 00:47:54.635
Strike, a regulated service, knows that. They also know the pub key you're paying.
571
00:47:55.175 --> 00:47:55.675
So,
572
00:47:56.990 --> 00:47:59.090
you know, Bitcoin can fix that,
573
00:48:01.790 --> 00:48:05.410
but the tools as they're currently set up, there's gonna be some
574
00:48:06.015 --> 00:48:06.914
issues there.
575
00:48:07.694 --> 00:48:14.115
People get their accounts closed. They're gonna end up on on unless they didn't think they were gonna be on, stuff like that.
576
00:48:14.640 --> 00:48:23.780
577
00:48:24.385 --> 00:48:27.105
Because, like, I donated, like, I donated to the,
578
00:48:27.984 --> 00:48:30.565
I sent money to the Canadian truckers through Cash App.
579
00:48:30.944 --> 00:48:35.329
580
00:48:37.069 --> 00:48:47.615
581
00:48:48.235 --> 00:48:49.375
like, the
582
00:48:50.590 --> 00:48:54.690
the onus is on the sender. And so I think, like, by businesses,
583
00:48:55.310 --> 00:48:56.610
if a bunch of businesses
584
00:48:57.470 --> 00:48:59.090
start running open node,
585
00:48:59.685 --> 00:49:02.265
as as they will. Right? Like, it's opening
586
00:49:02.725 --> 00:49:03.865
the amount of places
587
00:49:04.565 --> 00:49:09.450
that no k y c people can shop. That's why I see it as, like, a benefit.
588
00:49:09.750 --> 00:49:10.250
589
00:49:11.910 --> 00:49:13.770
Right. I agree on that point.
590
00:49:15.825 --> 00:49:20.645
No. I mean, that makes a lot of sense, and that's it's extremely powerful because it's an open monitoring network.
591
00:49:21.185 --> 00:49:26.020
592
00:49:26.720 --> 00:49:31.300
do pitching businesses is is so much easier than it, like, than it used to be already.
593
00:49:36.315 --> 00:49:37.695
594
00:49:38.555 --> 00:49:39.535
I have businesses.
595
00:49:40.040 --> 00:49:46.620
I I didn't know if you were pausing there, Brian. Or No. Go. Go. Go. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I have businesses where I walk in,
596
00:49:47.214 --> 00:49:51.155
and I'm like, hey, do you wanna, like, offer Bitcoin rewards to your customers? And some of them, like,
597
00:49:51.535 --> 00:49:54.994
granted, this doesn't happen often. It happens often enough to where they're like,
598
00:49:55.710 --> 00:50:02.130
hey, like, I've actually been meaning or wanting to get involved with Bitcoin, and I just didn't know how. Like, nobody's
599
00:50:02.835 --> 00:50:05.735
talked with me about it yet. Like, I didn't know where to get started.
600
00:50:06.035 --> 00:50:49.410
601
00:50:49.710 --> 00:51:00.675
like or in that place that are, like, up to speed on why it makes sense from personal finance perspective. And as Odell goes about, like, the privacy perspective to use Bitcoin as your money.
602
00:51:00.990 --> 00:51:05.250
Like, this is good. Having a restaurant in your town accepting Bitcoin
603
00:51:05.630 --> 00:51:12.795
is good, and the time is now for this and the time's, like, ready for all this. Let me be clear here on the privacy perspective.
604
00:51:14.695 --> 00:51:16.795
605
00:51:17.250 --> 00:51:27.785
it's I mean, it's a hot like, if you spend with credit card, it's the same as spending poorly on Bitcoin. So Exactly. So if the alternative is credit card, you can only improve yourself.
606
00:51:28.244 --> 00:51:32.345
If the alternative is cash, the story is different because cash is just natively private.
607
00:51:32.645 --> 00:51:34.025
608
00:51:34.325 --> 00:51:44.000
and that's the whole thing. So, like, this whole thing of, like, cash is good because it's no KYC. Like, no. That's, like, a moot point now. Like No. That's not my point that it's no KYC. My point is that it's
609
00:51:44.645 --> 00:51:46.585
610
00:51:47.605 --> 00:51:48.105
It
611
00:51:48.965 --> 00:51:52.425
so if if privacy is your if privacy is your priority,
612
00:51:53.079 --> 00:51:58.220
you can't shoot yourself in the foot by paying with cash. But if you if you use Bitcoin
613
00:51:58.680 --> 00:52:00.299
without understanding the nuances,
614
00:52:01.355 --> 00:52:05.215
that transaction might not be private. But if you're comparing it to credit card,
615
00:52:06.555 --> 00:52:12.770
616
00:52:13.230 --> 00:52:14.210
talking about
617
00:52:15.790 --> 00:52:19.665
the personal finance benefits of spending Bitcoin are just good to get out there more
618
00:52:20.445 --> 00:52:34.130
because all we hear are the personal finance downsides of spending Bitcoin. They're all like, oh, well, you're triggering capital gains taxes. You don't have to pay the state and insulate the state. Like, you're not funding the state through paying capital gains taxes. The state funds itself by printing money. Like, the government spends a 130%
619
00:52:34.430 --> 00:52:46.190
of tax receipts every year. And so that's where, like, I'm I'm moving on from the old talking points of, like, you, you know, like, you can't use Bitcoin as a currency because the laws won't change. Like, no. I'm gonna start right now
620
00:52:46.730 --> 00:52:52.110
using Bitcoin as my base money before the tax laws change because that's how we win.
621
00:52:53.205 --> 00:53:10.495
622
00:53:10.955 --> 00:53:14.735
623
00:53:15.559 --> 00:53:20.619
624
00:53:21.720 --> 00:53:35.260
because the transaction flows are significantly better. So, you know, the current transaction flow is pretty much like you see an item, you click buy, it generates a charge, the user scans or clicks the charge, confirms the payment,
625
00:53:35.960 --> 00:53:37.339
then the payment succeeds.
626
00:53:37.800 --> 00:53:48.655
That's like the success flow. And then even with, like, order ahead, with the Ocea app, which is something I really like in terms of their flow, you can, like, take your time, and you can actually, like,
627
00:53:48.955 --> 00:54:09.880
click the charge. It'll open up in your lightning wallet, your whatever preferred lightning wallet it is, and confirm the payment and send. And all you have to do is walk up and show the QR code. So, like, think about how much time is wasted standing in line and slow processing through the credit card merchants even with, like, the, e m EMV chips that they have now. It takes,
628
00:54:10.279 --> 00:54:13.660
a significant amount of time. So if you have, like, the entire world,
629
00:54:13.960 --> 00:54:14.779
like, saving,
630
00:54:15.160 --> 00:54:18.460
like, 20, 30 seconds every single time, if not minutes,
631
00:54:18.765 --> 00:54:33.180
every time, like, how much more productive would we be? So not only are you, like, lowering the operating costs or, like, saving tons of human time that could then be dedicated to something else. And on another point in interesting on the no KYC aspect,
632
00:54:33.880 --> 00:54:37.740
with Azteca terminals, you don't need to provide any sort of identity
633
00:54:38.724 --> 00:54:40.105
until up to, like, $1,000.
634
00:54:41.045 --> 00:54:45.065
And then I thought about it using open node, and I built in, an application.
635
00:54:45.640 --> 00:54:53.740
You could hook this up to l n bits too. There's it just change the endpoint and change the allocation. But one thing I like about the open node is that you can specify
636
00:54:54.125 --> 00:55:05.720
the allocation like Odell was saying earlier. So essentially, like, you could have a dedicated person in the community that has an open node account. Unfortunately, yeah, they have to, you know, I, verify identity, whatever.
637
00:55:06.740 --> 00:55:09.800
But I I still think that enables them to offer,
638
00:55:10.420 --> 00:55:11.880
another revenue source
639
00:55:12.224 --> 00:55:18.964
because then they can be that person for the community that all they have to do is generate a $5 charge with a percentage,
640
00:55:19.665 --> 00:55:29.350
spread to like 2 or 3%. And that's the cost that they pay for having that account. And on their end, they can generate a $5 charge, somewhat plus, 3% spread.
641
00:55:29.935 --> 00:55:33.955
The user can scan and pay it with whatever lightning wallet that they want.
642
00:55:34.735 --> 00:55:42.819
The merchant receives instant credit for that balance, and if they're using open though, they get the the the fantastic benefits that they offer, which is that allocation.
643
00:55:44.240 --> 00:55:50.855
So then if you're a merchant, you can just sell or or buy bitcoin from someone And it's an automatic FX conversion.
644
00:55:51.395 --> 00:55:52.935
So so you could even take 100%
645
00:55:53.315 --> 00:55:55.975
fee out if you don't want any exposure and just offer this.
646
00:55:56.380 --> 00:55:58.319
You essentially receive $5
647
00:55:58.859 --> 00:56:00.640
plus the 3% spread
648
00:56:00.940 --> 00:56:02.480
minus the 1% processing
649
00:56:02.859 --> 00:56:15.210
fee. So you make 2%, and and then you can give that person cash and know for a fact that that payment has settled. And you could do this for, you know, 10 5, 10, 25, 100, whatever amount that you want to pay the charge.
650
00:56:15.750 --> 00:56:23.065
And you could do the same thing if you if you wanted to retain your privacy and you're okay with receiving stats and giving cash. It's almost like,
651
00:56:23.365 --> 00:56:24.904
you know, a real life DCA
652
00:56:25.365 --> 00:56:30.680
without any sort of, like, KYC if you were to hook it up into your own lnbits and even,
653
00:56:31.300 --> 00:56:32.840
set the fee rate potentially
654
00:56:33.220 --> 00:56:39.615
to save even more. So there's, like, all kinds of different approaches you could do to enter the Bitcoin circular economy
655
00:56:39.994 --> 00:56:54.190
and to exit the Bitcoin circular economy. And there's options for everyone. So if you're very privacy conscious, you can do the no k y c route. If you are are not privacy conscious and you're more concerned about convenience, then you can approach it from that route too.
656
00:56:59.895 --> 00:57:09.740
657
00:57:10.200 --> 00:57:11.180
accepting Bitcoin?
658
00:57:11.935 --> 00:57:12.415
659
00:57:12.735 --> 00:57:16.115
we offer that. So there's basically, like, kind of a flow,
660
00:57:16.895 --> 00:57:18.835
that that we're using. Essentially,
661
00:57:19.215 --> 00:57:20.195
we have a partner,
662
00:57:20.740 --> 00:57:25.480
Their name is BitRamp, and they're an Azteco vendor. And their their model
663
00:57:25.780 --> 00:57:32.165
is completely focused on minimizing risk in getting these terminals into the merchant's hands without them having to put up any cash,
664
00:57:32.865 --> 00:57:34.244
to further terminal itself
665
00:57:34.704 --> 00:57:35.185
or,
666
00:57:35.505 --> 00:57:40.460
set up, like, to be able to have in their account to be deducted as, like, people purchase,
667
00:57:42.200 --> 00:57:43.339
vouchers from them.
668
00:57:43.800 --> 00:57:51.035
So their our partner is doing that, and we connect them with the partner. So we're working on a presentation to open up,
669
00:57:51.575 --> 00:58:00.930
to the general public, and we're gonna market it on, like, Eventbrite, LinkedIn, and Meetup, and Twitter, of course. So it's gonna be called, like, lightning for business. I really like the term,
670
00:58:01.390 --> 00:58:02.690
b commerce, so maybe,
671
00:58:03.150 --> 00:58:06.755
change the name there. But, essentially, it'll cover all the different aspects
672
00:58:07.375 --> 00:58:07.934
of, like,
673
00:58:08.575 --> 00:58:20.210
needs from the business perspective. Like, if you're a sole proprietor, you can use Zaprite or create your own invoice and bill it out. It's it's a great interface and a seamless process. It's easy to get onboarded.
674
00:58:20.625 --> 00:58:25.125
If you're a merchant like brick and mortar, you can use the Oshi app for marketing and discoverability.
675
00:58:26.225 --> 00:58:37.595
You can I wrote a point of sale app that is is uses the open note API? So if you need, like if you're, like, also wanting to offer, like, quick sales, you can, you know, click to generate charge if someone scans it and pays it,
676
00:58:38.075 --> 00:58:39.775
You know, if they want that novel experience.
677
00:58:41.035 --> 00:58:54.859
So then you you kinda have those aspects. If you're an enterprise, then you could look at, like, converting a portion of your treasury, like using, Swan Bitcoin as an example. If you want, like, a very easy, like, dollar cost averaging in into that position
678
00:58:55.160 --> 00:58:56.540
and begin saving there.
679
00:58:56.895 --> 00:59:00.275
So that that's kinda like how we imagine the the strategy.
680
00:59:03.454 --> 00:59:05.055
681
00:59:05.695 --> 00:59:06.195
DCA,
682
00:59:07.920 --> 00:59:10.980
DCA thing, you know, whenever a business is accepting
683
00:59:11.600 --> 00:59:12.100
Bitcoin,
684
00:59:12.880 --> 00:59:20.415
a lot of the businesses that we talk with, like, they realize that there's not gonna be some massive amount or group of people that are gonna be paying with Bitcoin,
685
00:59:20.795 --> 00:59:22.175
at least not at this moment.
686
00:59:22.620 --> 00:59:27.040
So let's say they sell like a few coffees a week. Like, is that business gonna be comfortable
687
00:59:27.420 --> 00:59:31.265
with holding on to like $12 worth of Bitcoin a week? Like,
688
00:59:31.805 --> 00:59:33.025
yes. Yes. They are.
689
00:59:34.045 --> 00:59:43.720
So in a way, like, every single time you make a purchase for a business that's accepting Bitcoin and generally speaking at this early stage, I'm finding most businesses are actually holding it.
690
00:59:44.260 --> 00:59:49.545
You're kind of like these businesses are are, like, DCA ing by selling their products and services,
691
00:59:50.165 --> 00:59:52.984
which is which is a really interesting way to think about it.
692
00:59:54.890 --> 00:59:59.869
693
01:00:00.410 --> 01:00:04.270
we kinda have, like, a circular economy of, like, earn and spend.
694
01:00:04.635 --> 01:00:15.370
So, like, earning, you can create content, you can provide goods and services, you can play games, you can earn rewards, you can stream and entertain, you can mine. And then just to use it or to spend it,
695
01:00:15.830 --> 01:00:20.490
you can huddle, you can pay others directly in goods and services, you can buy gift cards,
696
01:00:20.855 --> 01:00:21.895
You can use single use,
697
01:00:22.455 --> 01:00:34.450
generated cards or even now there's Bitcoin backed cards, kind of like what Brian was talking about related to, like, a Bitcoin checking account to hold in Sats, but immediately when you spend, there's an FX conversion
698
01:00:34.830 --> 01:00:36.530
to whatever respective currency
699
01:00:36.830 --> 01:00:42.325
and then have, you know, per pay for that good or service. So you could do it that way, or you can just pay directly
700
01:00:42.945 --> 01:00:48.079
in SaaS, which to me, like, makes the most economic sense in, like, the sense in terms of, like, time
701
01:00:48.460 --> 01:00:52.400
and and savings. Because it it then it ultimately makes everyone more productive.
702
01:00:53.020 --> 01:00:55.440
Like, no one wants to stand waiting in line
703
01:00:55.785 --> 01:01:02.444
to pay for something, and one of the worst experiences you can have from a like a banking or checkout experience is to be declined.
704
01:01:02.800 --> 01:01:09.140
With lightning, you have none of that. You don't have to even worry. Yeah. There may be a failed route, but I think that's where, like,
705
01:01:09.600 --> 01:01:17.914
using a lightning service provider is particularly useful because then you take advantage of not having to manage all of your own channels and having really good routing.
706
01:01:18.680 --> 01:01:22.860
And then the beautiful thing is, like, kinda touched on this before is, like,
707
01:01:23.240 --> 01:01:35.935
getting your funds off. Like, if you are using a custody provider, then you're putting yourself at risk for being shut down. That's 100% true. But the thing is is it's easier now than ever to withdraw. You can essentially specify
708
01:01:36.370 --> 01:01:42.790
a lightning address as as, like, in a setting somewhere. So this is my lightning address, click withdrawal, and it automatically sends
709
01:01:43.250 --> 01:01:50.375
to whatever whatever node is connected to that lightning address. It could be self hosted or it could be another trusted provider. Who knows?
710
01:01:50.755 --> 01:01:57.010
Ideally, you know, self hosted. So then you can earn using lightning service providers and then immediately withdraw or transfer
711
01:01:57.390 --> 01:02:00.530
off into something that's in your control. So then you're only ever,
712
01:02:00.990 --> 01:02:02.690
putting, like, very small amounts,
713
01:02:02.990 --> 01:02:03.809
at risk.
714
01:02:04.395 --> 01:02:05.695
And even on chain.
715
01:02:06.795 --> 01:02:08.655
716
01:02:09.035 --> 01:02:12.655
do you guys remember the async, not to be confused with
717
01:02:13.760 --> 01:02:25.125
strike, but they called it I think they called it async strike, which was they were an LSP and you put in an on chain address, and they would just basically accept a bunch of lightning payments for you. And then once it hit a threshold,
718
01:02:25.825 --> 01:02:29.445
it would send to an on chain address, so you didn't have as much custodial risk.
719
01:02:30.310 --> 01:02:42.204
720
01:02:46.000 --> 01:02:46.900
721
01:02:47.600 --> 01:02:49.620
722
01:02:49.920 --> 01:02:53.700
actually enables businesses to accept payments on Lightning, and it will,
723
01:02:54.005 --> 01:03:09.960
724
01:03:11.065 --> 01:03:13.645
because it's important to make perfect the enemy of good.
725
01:03:17.145 --> 01:03:20.839
So, I mean, we've been talking about brick and mortar a lot, but Santos,
726
01:03:21.140 --> 01:03:22.680
you know, his passion project
727
01:03:23.060 --> 01:03:32.244
is Chamber of Satoshi and onboarding onboarding brick and mortar, but he also works for ZBD. I don't know exactly what you do over at ZBD,
728
01:03:32.705 --> 01:03:35.045
and we can get into that in a second, but,
729
01:03:35.740 --> 01:03:39.680
or, like, what your role is over at ZBD. But ZBD is this idea of
730
01:03:40.540 --> 01:03:47.535
of gaming with lightning, and and that is very much a circular economy as well, specifically on the streamer side,
731
01:03:48.075 --> 01:03:50.015
which obviously I have
732
01:03:52.190 --> 01:03:57.170
as as I don't stream video games, but I stream dispatch, and it's audience funded.
733
01:03:57.549 --> 01:04:00.849
So it's particularly interesting to me, and I saw you guys announced
734
01:04:01.285 --> 01:04:01.785
today,
735
01:04:03.525 --> 01:04:05.065
a new tool for streamers.
736
01:04:05.765 --> 01:04:06.265
Now
737
01:04:06.724 --> 01:04:10.184
just to fully load up this question before you answer it,
738
01:04:11.370 --> 01:04:14.110
you know, ZBD is also a custodial
739
01:04:15.050 --> 01:04:15.550
KYC'd
740
01:04:16.490 --> 01:04:16.990
LSP.
741
01:04:19.535 --> 01:04:21.775
How how do you got how do you think about the
742
01:04:22.815 --> 01:04:30.050
like, how how do you how do you how do you think about all these different trade offs and stuff in that, you know, type of streamer virtual circular economy?
743
01:04:31.150 --> 01:04:36.985
744
01:04:37.765 --> 01:04:46.230
app. In order to develop, like, higher limits, then you need to KYC, but all you actually need is an email and password to sign up. Yeah. But what's the lowest limit?
745
01:04:47.109 --> 01:04:50.570
You can send up to 250 k SATs per transaction
746
01:04:51.190 --> 01:04:58.185
747
01:04:59.365 --> 01:05:13.285
748
01:05:14.225 --> 01:05:18.885
And the the beautiful thing about lightning, which I touched on earlier, is you can immediately withdraw.
749
01:05:19.240 --> 01:05:24.140
So you only need to you to actually use the streamer product, you don't need any sort of KYC.
750
01:05:24.840 --> 01:05:27.660
And the transaction the average transaction sizes
751
01:05:28.184 --> 01:05:31.964
are small enough such that, like, users are not running into that problem,
752
01:05:32.424 --> 01:05:35.805
753
01:05:38.260 --> 01:05:39.640
on the streamer side,
754
01:05:40.020 --> 01:05:41.640
but just an email and a password,
755
01:05:43.220 --> 01:05:47.695
what are my limits? Do you know off the top of your head? Yeah. The minimum,
756
01:05:48.315 --> 01:05:54.200
757
01:05:54.740 --> 01:05:56.680
758
01:05:57.460 --> 01:05:59.560
It's just on a per transaction basis?
759
01:06:00.340 --> 01:06:03.645
760
01:06:04.265 --> 01:06:06.525
but you can transfer them off at any time.
761
01:06:06.825 --> 01:06:11.005
762
01:06:12.040 --> 01:06:21.180
763
01:06:22.505 --> 01:06:27.325
I believe so. I need to check the So what is that? That's, like, $500 right now.
764
01:06:29.319 --> 01:06:29.819
765
01:06:30.119 --> 01:06:31.339
good. Yeah. That's decent.
766
01:06:32.200 --> 01:06:36.380
767
01:06:36.839 --> 01:06:37.980
the lightning address.
768
01:06:38.965 --> 01:06:42.425
Many different, wallet apps do support it. Like, for example,
769
01:06:42.965 --> 01:06:44.985
Wallet of Satoshi also supports,
770
01:06:45.285 --> 01:06:50.830
lightning address, so it's seamless to transfer funds off of our or send them off off of our, Lightning
771
01:06:51.530 --> 01:06:55.785
platform. So there's there's that aspect of it. So with Streamer,
772
01:06:56.245 --> 01:07:02.425
773
01:07:03.490 --> 01:07:06.790
774
01:07:07.090 --> 01:07:09.510
I I work very closely with our CTO,
775
01:07:10.130 --> 01:07:11.910
developing products and
776
01:07:12.845 --> 01:07:15.825
developing processes for engineering. So kind of like
777
01:07:16.285 --> 01:07:19.025
a pro like, kinda lead product and Cool. Engineering
778
01:07:19.645 --> 01:07:20.145
person.
779
01:07:21.480 --> 01:07:29.420
780
01:07:30.195 --> 01:07:33.815
781
01:07:34.435 --> 01:07:39.019
circular Bitcoin circular economy to develop. So, if you go to zbd.gg/santos,
782
01:07:40.680 --> 01:07:51.485
like, you can see there's a lightning address. There's a static charge QR code in any wallet that supports l and URL to essentially scan this and pay you. So you can attach this, like, to your post.
783
01:07:52.425 --> 01:07:56.270
You can play games. We have a model called play to earn. So,
784
01:07:56.810 --> 01:08:00.510
game developers will essentially pay you stats for playing their games,
785
01:08:02.275 --> 01:08:07.575
then you kinda have the aspect of streaming and entertaining. There's a lot of gamers that are also streamers,
786
01:08:08.355 --> 01:08:11.580
and we see that as incredibly, you know, valuable and
787
01:08:11.980 --> 01:08:16.800
another way that people need to be able to earn Sats. Because if you look at it currently,
788
01:08:17.580 --> 01:08:20.720
like, how do like, how have people been able to pay you,
789
01:08:21.435 --> 01:08:35.239
using, like, Twitch as an example? You have to go through, like, US dollars, but then, you know, what if you wanna pay with with British pounds? There's a lot of actual user friction there. But the beautiful thing about SaaS is global money. So then,
790
01:08:35.860 --> 01:08:40.074
you could essentially pay using any wallet that supports the ln URL protocol,
791
01:08:40.614 --> 01:08:44.715
and it's all you have to do is just add, like, a browser source widget or 2,
792
01:08:45.094 --> 01:08:51.090
to begin taking advantage of this. So now it's just an additional way to earn Saks as a creator
793
01:08:51.470 --> 01:08:54.690
where you don't even, like, need to worry about fiat,
794
01:08:55.595 --> 01:08:59.855
whatsoever. So it's that it's, like, another way of, earning, essentially.
795
01:09:00.555 --> 01:09:06.420
796
01:09:08.240 --> 01:09:11.540
And I I think I mean, just in gaming in general,
797
01:09:14.135 --> 01:09:21.835
the overwhelming majority of of young kids' first interaction with sats will be through games, and I think people are really sleeping on it.
798
01:09:22.880 --> 01:09:33.465
799
01:09:33.765 --> 01:09:38.265
using fiat. And you'll you'll automatically know, like, that the fiat banking,
800
01:09:38.725 --> 01:09:40.490
experience is, like, significantly
801
01:09:41.510 --> 01:09:44.970
less. Or it's, like, it it's gonna cost you a lot more time and be slower
802
01:09:45.350 --> 01:09:53.594
than, like, a lightning experience would. So they already have learned by about stats and how to use stats, but and how to earn them by that point.
803
01:09:53.895 --> 01:10:06.775
804
01:10:07.155 --> 01:10:13.310
bug tester for software or is doing some other, like, remote job from their parents' Citadel,
805
01:10:14.250 --> 01:10:24.455
getting paid SATs straight to their wallet, straight from their like, straight inside their parents' Citadel, nothing else involved. And so because I think then what's gonna happen at that point is businesses
806
01:10:24.835 --> 01:10:35.010
so businesses are gonna direct deposit Bitcoin to their w two employees, but businesses are still gonna have incentive to hire freelance workers with freelance arrangements.
807
01:10:35.390 --> 01:10:44.145
And these kids working from their parents' citadels are gonna be able to, like, have leverage. They're they're basically gonna be, like, cheap offshore labor
808
01:10:45.245 --> 01:10:51.370
that they're gonna be able to negotiate and say, sorry, I only take stats, and sorry, I'm not filling out your 10.99.
809
01:10:51.750 --> 01:10:56.570
They're like, do you want my service or not? Like, and then the company is going to
810
01:10:56.875 --> 01:10:58.574
pay off book stats
811
01:10:58.875 --> 01:11:00.894
for that labor because they need it.
812
01:11:04.840 --> 01:11:12.380
That's an example of the way that, like, the direct deposit Bitcoin Paychex and, like, the off book Bitcoin circular economy is gonna work hand in hand.
813
01:11:15.755 --> 01:11:18.895
814
01:11:19.355 --> 01:11:24.050
just the economy in general, the global economy in general, about how it can be very interconnected.
815
01:11:25.230 --> 01:11:33.205
I think a lot of especially US based businesses will probably not use people that will refuse 10.90 nines, but I I think that's a different story.
816
01:11:33.665 --> 01:11:42.719
817
01:11:43.260 --> 01:11:44.719
participants can shop
818
01:11:45.145 --> 01:11:53.244
because the point of sale can't tell the difference. The same thing is going to happen that like the amount of jobs that will be able to go no 1099
819
01:11:53.625 --> 01:11:54.764
is going to explode.
820
01:11:57.930 --> 01:12:02.590
Because currently currently, it's hard to find a remote job at all that'll be no 1099.
821
01:12:03.225 --> 01:12:03.725
Yeah.
822
01:12:06.425 --> 01:12:06.925
Yeah.
823
01:12:07.625 --> 01:12:13.790
824
01:12:14.170 --> 01:12:39.835
where people are going to solve specific problems, but not necessarily work like a like, at a career or a job, like a salary, where people are more, like, using whatever their unique skill set is to then solve the problems that are most interesting to them. And they'll be like this discovery aspect where you'll complete this task, and then all of a sudden, like, you receive stats for it, and then you can move on to a completely different sort of thing. And it it'll be like this transaction,
825
01:12:41.735 --> 01:12:43.515
this very virtuous transaction,
826
01:12:44.455 --> 01:12:53.460
cycle, essentially. Like, you need something done, you create, like, a particular post, and then someone discovers that, proposes a solution, and then it's paid
827
01:12:53.985 --> 01:12:59.284
in in SaaS. And it did a person could be, like, a task creator or task solver to some extent.
828
01:12:59.905 --> 01:13:08.140
829
01:13:09.640 --> 01:13:10.085
830
01:13:10.965 --> 01:13:12.745
Yeah. That's really kinda how, like, Stackwork,
831
01:13:13.445 --> 01:13:15.065
works. I believe it's called Stackwork.
832
01:13:15.844 --> 01:13:19.065
Really cool really cool project whereby people can, like,
833
01:13:19.790 --> 01:13:22.210
complete these little micro tasks and earn sats,
834
01:13:22.910 --> 01:13:24.130
from anywhere in the world.
835
01:13:24.510 --> 01:13:29.330
836
01:13:29.775 --> 01:13:33.235
Mhmm. Yeah. And then there's another one. What is it? Is it MicroLancer?
837
01:13:34.895 --> 01:13:36.835
Dot IO, I think, is 1.
838
01:13:39.480 --> 01:13:42.460
But right now, they're, like, kind of very small paying,
839
01:13:43.400 --> 01:13:44.940
almost like micro tasks.
840
01:13:47.265 --> 01:13:52.885
I don't know how like, I mean, this is seems like a little bit off topic, but, like, how do you guys feel about this whole, like,
841
01:13:54.630 --> 01:13:55.930
gig economy concept?
842
01:13:56.390 --> 01:13:58.890
Like, isn't it kind of horrible for
843
01:14:00.950 --> 01:14:02.010
the the
844
01:14:02.355 --> 01:14:05.815
person that's not an employee because they're a gig economy worker?
845
01:14:06.275 --> 01:14:10.410
846
01:14:10.970 --> 01:14:12.110
But I think Bitcoin,
847
01:14:12.650 --> 01:14:14.750
like, fixes that to a certain extent. Right?
848
01:14:15.050 --> 01:14:18.110
Because, like, the money itself, like, doesn't rot.
849
01:14:18.525 --> 01:14:21.105
So it's, like, harder. So, like, it's it's,
850
01:14:22.205 --> 01:14:38.955
easier to, like, do the task and have the money, like, not rot. I definitely agree that there's, like, downsides to it. And I think we're already, like the US already feels kind of like a caste system. Like, if you're a remote worker working inside your house, you just get Uber Eats delivered all the time. Like, that's already kind of like a CAST system.
851
01:14:40.055 --> 01:14:44.860
852
01:14:46.300 --> 01:14:51.199
We say, hey. Look. Like, Visa and Mastercard shouldn't have to get, like, 2, 3, 4, 5%
853
01:14:51.955 --> 01:14:56.455
of every single transaction just for, like, the privilege of sending ones and zeros over the Internet.
854
01:14:57.235 --> 01:15:01.575
How about we keep that local? Like, how can we either reward the consumers or we reward, like, Bitcoiners
855
01:15:02.360 --> 01:15:04.460
who go around and they, like, get businesses,
856
01:15:05.000 --> 01:15:10.540
introduced to Oshi or get their family and friends introduced to Oshi to help them take their first steps into
857
01:15:10.965 --> 01:15:12.505
a Bitcoin circular economy.
858
01:15:13.125 --> 01:15:16.105
To that end, I mean, it's like, you know,
859
01:15:16.804 --> 01:15:23.420
as with all referral affiliate programs, like, once you're in more than $600 in a calendar a year, like, you have to do it to 99.
860
01:15:23.720 --> 01:15:27.020
Of course, you could just say, alright. I'm done with that account and be done, but,
861
01:15:28.115 --> 01:15:30.455
that that's the unfortunate unfortunate thing.
862
01:15:30.835 --> 01:15:31.235
But,
863
01:15:31.875 --> 01:15:33.175
yeah, I mean, I do think
864
01:15:34.035 --> 01:15:43.239
in terms of, like, gig economy, the seamlessness of the money and, like, just the programmable aspect of it and the final settlement aspect allows you to pay workers instantly,
865
01:15:44.635 --> 01:15:59.240
you know, at the at the time of every, like, purchase your referral mix in in this case or at the time of every sale of business mix in this case because settlement's final. Yeah. There's no chargebacks. So it's it's it just kinda changes the game if we're thinking about gig economy type setups.
866
01:15:59.595 --> 01:16:17.199
867
01:16:17.695 --> 01:16:19.475
And Bitcoin allows that to happen.
868
01:16:20.574 --> 01:16:21.935
869
01:16:22.415 --> 01:16:27.219
870
01:16:28.239 --> 01:16:32.980
in in general, I mean, there's a lot of, like, raffling bullshit scams in Bitcoin.
871
01:16:34.595 --> 01:16:35.555
Yeah. And I don't really
872
01:16:36.075 --> 01:16:39.015
I I I usually it's usually a bad sign.
873
01:16:39.555 --> 01:16:39.875
874
01:16:40.435 --> 01:16:43.060
875
01:16:43.680 --> 01:16:45.700
it's a very interesting concept because
876
01:16:46.880 --> 01:16:49.540
you kind of have these so so
877
01:16:49.945 --> 01:16:51.485
if if an OSI user
878
01:16:51.785 --> 01:16:52.285
onboards
879
01:16:52.665 --> 01:16:53.325
a business,
880
01:16:54.905 --> 01:16:55.405
you
881
01:16:56.185 --> 01:16:57.885
if they onboard them using
882
01:16:58.370 --> 01:17:01.030
their tag. Right? So, like, I have my tag down below
883
01:17:01.489 --> 01:17:02.710
previously, like, oshi.tech/odell.
884
01:17:03.889 --> 01:17:06.389
If they onboard a business with that tag,
885
01:17:07.275 --> 01:17:07.775
1%
886
01:17:08.155 --> 01:17:08.655
of
887
01:17:09.275 --> 01:17:10.415
the business that
888
01:17:10.795 --> 01:17:14.815
that business does through Oshi, that person gets. So you're basically incentivizing
889
01:17:15.115 --> 01:17:16.415
people to go out there,
890
01:17:17.140 --> 01:17:17.880
do the pitch,
891
01:17:18.340 --> 01:17:22.360
onboard businesses onto Bitcoin, and as a result, they get a cut. Right?
892
01:17:23.140 --> 01:17:25.480
893
01:17:26.085 --> 01:17:28.745
the circular economy go around. We like,
894
01:17:29.125 --> 01:17:39.050
895
01:17:39.510 --> 01:17:40.010
896
01:17:40.550 --> 01:17:41.850
So this is that opportunity.
897
01:17:42.824 --> 01:17:46.284
Yeah. Yeah. Basically, you know, like, we we have we have
898
01:17:46.585 --> 01:17:49.085
a a valuable service we're providing for these businesses.
899
01:17:49.705 --> 01:17:52.125
And, we charge we charge less,
900
01:17:52.610 --> 01:17:56.230
than than Visa and Mastercard, substantially less in most cases.
901
01:17:56.610 --> 01:17:57.110
And,
902
01:17:57.489 --> 01:18:26.720
you know, at this stage, we choose to give all that back to the people that are actually participating in this economy and, like, getting businesses onboarded and getting them set up. And I I'm not saying, like, you have to go into the trenches with these businesses and be like, alright. Like, let me show you how to set up your your BTC Pacer. Nothing like that. Like, we don't expect Freaks. You should do that. That would be amazing if you did it. Michael's not telling you to do that, but I'm telling you to do that, and Santos is telling you to also onboard them to Azteca at the same time. So Yeah. Do all of those things,
903
01:18:27.100 --> 01:18:28.400
but it's not a requirement.
904
01:18:28.940 --> 01:18:39.655
It's not a requirement. You share that ref link. They hit us up. They're like, hey. We wanna accept Bitcoin. Oh, and, you know, my friend over here that gave me this ref link said that we we should do BDC pay server.
905
01:18:40.195 --> 01:18:45.270
What you know, what do we do? Oh, perfect. Yeah. That would be great. That'd be the dream, actually. That's the dream.
906
01:18:48.290 --> 01:18:50.870
907
01:18:51.245 --> 01:18:55.585
is that, you know, we onboard all these merchants, and they're on, like, 1 or 2
908
01:18:56.605 --> 01:18:58.385
custodial regulated LSPs.
909
01:18:59.485 --> 01:19:00.365
And then it's just
910
01:19:01.170 --> 01:19:02.790
it's really easy to
911
01:19:04.530 --> 01:19:05.750
blow that thing up.
912
01:19:06.530 --> 01:19:09.750
Yeah. And I understand. I respect the fact that it's
913
01:19:10.195 --> 01:19:10.695
it's,
914
01:19:12.435 --> 01:19:13.895
maybe part of the process
915
01:19:14.275 --> 01:19:16.455
because they're already using custodial
916
01:19:16.835 --> 01:19:17.335
regulated
917
01:19:17.795 --> 01:19:19.255
fiat methods anyway.
918
01:19:19.970 --> 01:19:20.370
And,
919
01:19:21.090 --> 01:19:22.150
and and maybe
920
01:19:22.850 --> 01:19:28.950
just the fact that we have more competition than just the BitPay. I mean, as this is not theoretical. Like, we literally had,
921
01:19:30.965 --> 01:19:33.145
BigHorners spent, you know, 2 years
922
01:19:34.725 --> 01:19:36.505
obsessed with onboarding merchants,
923
01:19:36.910 --> 01:19:39.970
and it was all onto the same custodial regulated provider
924
01:19:40.510 --> 01:19:41.970
who turned out to be evil.
925
01:19:42.670 --> 01:19:44.450
Mhmm. And that that was good pay.
926
01:19:44.915 --> 01:19:50.135
927
01:19:50.915 --> 01:19:54.330
the, like, payments and, like, the reason why
928
01:19:55.990 --> 01:20:00.090
they matter, like, is important. Because I still think, yeah, the,
929
01:20:03.995 --> 01:20:14.159
like, a lot of people try to say, like, oh, the the we're so early. Like, we're so early. Why, like, struggle with this? And they point back to that and how, like, oh, it's not it's not for payments then. But it's like, dude, the, like,
930
01:20:15.900 --> 01:20:21.775
the dollar sucks. Like, we all know that, but, like, doing business not with it is how
931
01:20:22.395 --> 01:20:23.615
you, like, win.
932
01:20:28.430 --> 01:20:28.930
933
01:20:30.270 --> 01:20:35.970
just wanna say that, you know, Michael said earlier, like, the way to win over businesses is not to, like, go in
934
01:20:36.350 --> 01:20:45.455
and, like, you know, tell them, like, the dollar's fucked and shit. I I most of the businesses that I've I've I've onboarded have just been with the fuck the state type of
935
01:20:47.410 --> 01:20:49.830
onboarding. So there are multiple methods.
936
01:20:50.530 --> 01:20:51.030
937
01:20:51.650 --> 01:20:52.210
Yeah. It's
938
01:20:53.135 --> 01:20:57.155
there there's there's a lot of people trying a lot of things. And, fortunately, now
939
01:20:57.535 --> 01:21:00.095
we have more than just, like, BitPay,
940
01:21:00.610 --> 01:21:06.630
And we have more than just like, yeah, just like download this wallet and, like, we have so many different different payment providers.
941
01:21:07.250 --> 01:21:07.650
And,
942
01:21:08.475 --> 01:21:11.295
you know, if one of them turns out to be a bad actor, fortunately,
943
01:21:12.075 --> 01:21:14.335
you know, everybody that's building apps right now,
944
01:21:14.715 --> 01:21:21.239
for for anything of this particular use case, make sure that you're interoperable with as many payment providers as possible because we're
945
01:21:21.540 --> 01:21:22.040
we're
946
01:21:22.820 --> 01:21:23.320
using
947
01:21:24.179 --> 01:21:27.824
an open source, you know, in a fully interoperable monetary network, like,
948
01:21:28.205 --> 01:21:36.010
leverage that. So, yeah, if there's a bid pay scenario, well, hey, guess what? Consumers, like, businesses, we we recommend you use this service now.
949
01:21:36.470 --> 01:21:46.025
950
01:21:46.405 --> 01:21:52.650
also, I think to the point earlier about, like, bit even spending Bitcoin poorly is like better than spending,
951
01:21:53.530 --> 01:21:58.190
credit cards. And I started thinking about that too, like holding if you're
952
01:21:58.724 --> 01:22:14.090
okay, if you're fully Bitcoin and then just fully cash, that's one thing. But a lot of people on Twitter, like are still holding dollars at Wells Fargo and dollars that chase a dollars at Bank of America, and then still kind of like armchair quarterbacking about like
953
01:22:14.390 --> 01:22:17.770
the just circular economy stuff and why, like
954
01:22:18.215 --> 01:22:21.435
just why there's barriers to it. But it's like holding
955
01:22:23.255 --> 01:22:23.755
956
01:22:25.570 --> 01:22:39.715
957
01:22:40.175 --> 01:22:46.330
the mechanisms of, like, why a business would do it or, like, why you spending Bitcoin at that business,
958
01:22:46.870 --> 01:22:49.130
like, makes sense to yourself, like, personally.
959
01:22:57.905 --> 01:22:59.205
960
01:23:02.010 --> 01:23:03.469
I mean, this has been a
961
01:23:03.770 --> 01:23:05.630
this has been a fantastic conversation.
962
01:23:06.730 --> 01:23:09.630
I'm trying to think about where we wanna go next.
963
01:23:10.305 --> 01:23:11.365
964
01:23:11.905 --> 01:23:12.405
like,
965
01:23:13.185 --> 01:23:15.125
there's a lot of Bitcoin meetups
966
01:23:15.825 --> 01:23:28.324
that I would say Yes. They are they are the people that are going to usher this in. Like, if you want one group of people in every single city across the country where you go, hey. Here are the tools. Here's the payment providers.
967
01:23:28.625 --> 01:23:32.724
Here's, like, the cash apps or the strikes or the blue wallets or the moon wallets.
968
01:23:33.105 --> 01:23:39.370
And for them to be able to take that information, package it up, and disseminate it out to everybody in their community, like,
969
01:23:40.150 --> 01:23:41.050
that is, like,
970
01:23:41.545 --> 01:23:44.125
that is huge, and we're seeing it already.
971
01:23:44.585 --> 01:23:45.565
We're seeing it,
972
01:23:46.345 --> 01:23:47.725
with the Chamber of Satoshi,
973
01:23:48.585 --> 01:23:51.005
Charlotte, Bitcoin meetup just had,
974
01:23:51.770 --> 01:23:53.870
you know, their introduction to Bitcoin,
975
01:23:54.490 --> 01:23:55.230
for businesses.
976
01:23:55.770 --> 01:24:02.005
You're you're having things going on in Kansas City. Obviously, Brian's already done, like, a lot of work in in the LA area.
977
01:24:02.705 --> 01:24:04.804
Austin's blowing up with that. Like,
978
01:24:05.425 --> 01:24:12.940
this is the way, and it's grassroots, it's bottom up, it's not top down. The more we wait for the top down and sit in our hands,
979
01:24:14.680 --> 01:24:23.235
that it's just not gonna be good in my opinion. Like, Bitcoin wins no matter what. But going back to the like, I think one of the first things you said on this on this pod, Matt,
980
01:24:23.540 --> 01:24:24.360
you were like,
981
01:24:24.660 --> 01:24:25.960
you know, when
982
01:24:26.420 --> 01:24:29.080
when is it gonna happen? Like, are we gonna wait decades?
983
01:24:29.460 --> 01:24:34.885
984
01:24:35.185 --> 01:24:40.090
985
01:24:40.630 --> 01:24:49.075
986
01:24:50.175 --> 01:24:51.635
that's relevant to both,
987
01:24:53.190 --> 01:24:54.650
both shows like Dispatch
988
01:24:55.430 --> 01:24:58.870
and on Meetups is this idea that that to scale is basically
989
01:25:00.385 --> 01:25:13.390
is is is educating people to the point where they can go out and they can educate 10 more people, that they those 10 people can then go out and educate 10 more people. And all of a sudden, you have a bunch of people
990
01:25:14.170 --> 01:25:18.270
who are aware of the trade offs, are aware of the options, are aware of
991
01:25:18.815 --> 01:25:25.795
the the the pros and cons of everything, and and can actually be on the ground helping friends and family, helping local merchants.
992
01:25:26.095 --> 01:25:27.395
The meetups in particular
993
01:25:28.480 --> 01:25:32.260
over the last 2 years and it's absolutely amazing because it coincided
994
01:25:32.719 --> 01:25:33.860
at the same time
995
01:25:34.239 --> 01:25:36.179
with, basically, global lockdowns.
996
01:25:36.505 --> 01:25:37.005
997
01:25:37.465 --> 01:25:40.525
998
01:25:40.985 --> 01:25:50.910
The global meetup scene Bitcoin meetup scene has absolutely blossomed. It's one of the single biggest bullish fundamentals in Bitcoin that I have noticed over the last couple of years.
999
01:25:52.165 --> 01:26:00.425
And so so to the freaks out there, like, if you're not participating in a local meetup, look to see if there is one. If there isn't one, maybe there's one that's, like, crypto.
1000
01:26:01.470 --> 01:26:02.290
Those suck.
1001
01:26:02.990 --> 01:26:16.475
Start your own. You know? Start your own Bitcoin meetup. Find 2 or 3 like minded people. Just start. You don't have to do anything fancy. You don't have to run a bit devs or something. Like, meet up at a local pub or something. Convince the pub to accept Bitcoin. Bartenders
1002
01:26:17.360 --> 01:26:21.860
are the number one easiest target to accept Bitcoin. I don't know what it is.
1003
01:26:23.200 --> 01:26:30.155
Maybe it's just because I'm drunk at that point, but for whatever reason, it seems like if if if you stay at a bar for an hour and a half,
1004
01:26:31.575 --> 01:26:35.980
you should be able to convince them to at least accept Bitcoin at a bare minimum fashion.
1005
01:26:36.920 --> 01:26:44.255
So I wanna talk a little bit on the meetup note, Michael, you had this this Bitcoin block party in Austin. You wanna talk about that a little bit?
1006
01:26:45.114 --> 01:26:46.494
1007
01:26:47.755 --> 01:26:48.574
I I overheard,
1008
01:26:49.920 --> 01:26:54.980
Kyle Murphy talking on, like, a John Vales podcast, and he's, like, talking about Bitcoin and community. And I'm like,
1009
01:26:55.600 --> 01:26:56.100
yes.
1010
01:26:56.480 --> 01:26:57.780
Like, absolutely. So
1011
01:26:58.105 --> 01:27:05.085
I, I got out of my car and I drove down to Austin, and we onboarded, like, I don't know, 13 or 15 businesses on a very,
1012
01:27:05.480 --> 01:27:06.220
like, small,
1013
01:27:06.600 --> 01:27:09.260
you know, popular street in Austin. It's called Rainy Street.
1014
01:27:10.200 --> 01:27:23.790
Majority of them were food trucks. It was so easy just to, like, walk up and, like, talk to the owner and be like, hey. Do you wanna accept Bitcoin and offer Bitcoin rewards? And they were like, sure. And some of them were harder to convince than others, but some of them were like,
1015
01:27:24.090 --> 01:27:28.670
I've been looking for this. And I was like, you know, obviously, that brought a smile to my face.
1016
01:27:29.050 --> 01:27:29.550
And
1017
01:27:30.344 --> 01:27:33.324
so we set it up and, you know, normally, the Dawson,
1018
01:27:34.025 --> 01:27:37.244
scene is is really strong. Right? Always. There's, you know,
1019
01:27:37.770 --> 01:27:41.390
a couple of 100 people at at the meetups, each meetup, and so on.
1020
01:27:42.810 --> 01:27:47.905
We're estimating around 600 people showed up to this block party on a Thursday night at 8 PM,
1021
01:27:48.685 --> 01:27:55.380
to come out and support these businesses that are accepting Bitcoin. And we provided some incentives, additional incentives,
1022
01:27:56.159 --> 01:28:00.500
for the consumers in the form of rewards to actually get out there and and participate. Right?
1023
01:28:01.815 --> 01:28:07.355
The businesses saw the value in it. It brought them more business than they've probably ever seen on a Thursday night.
1024
01:28:08.695 --> 01:28:13.720
The the bar was happy as well. Like, it was a really cool thing. And this is something that's replicable
1025
01:28:14.340 --> 01:28:18.840
all over the country as well, and it's it's already it already is happening. Like,
1026
01:28:19.645 --> 01:28:32.590
Santos' Satoshi Day that they were talking about, you know, it's kind of very similar in nature. Like, you're coming out and you're celebrating businesses that are now accepting Bitcoin. You're showing your support for them. Kansas City is gonna have one as well. These are gonna be everywhere.
1027
01:28:34.570 --> 01:28:35.870
So, again, like,
1028
01:28:36.425 --> 01:28:42.285
the time is now. Like, this this is this is, in my opinion, a fairly critical moment,
1029
01:28:43.065 --> 01:28:44.285
in Bitcoin. And,
1030
01:28:45.320 --> 01:28:57.285
you know, I it's funny too because, like, whenever you say anything like that, you always think about, like, say Roger Ver. Like, everybody needs to accept Bitcoin and, like The babies are dying. The babies are dying, but it's like, you know what?
1031
01:28:57.745 --> 01:29:00.885
Like, this time, we have lightning, and we have tools and infrastructure
1032
01:29:01.265 --> 01:29:01.765
and
1033
01:29:02.490 --> 01:29:05.070
to to make this work. And so we're gonna try it,
1034
01:29:06.650 --> 01:29:09.390
you know, on layer 2. Right? See what happens.
1035
01:29:11.015 --> 01:29:14.554
1036
01:29:15.015 --> 01:29:20.155
you you kinda start talking about different ideas, different presentations to help the local community
1037
01:29:20.530 --> 01:29:25.830
get inspired by one another. One of our meetup members, Adam, was talking about wanting to do,
1038
01:29:26.450 --> 01:29:27.990
a presentation to help
1039
01:29:29.275 --> 01:29:29.775
seniors
1040
01:29:30.315 --> 01:29:34.015
essentially begin stacking sats and then how to transfer it to,
1041
01:29:34.475 --> 01:29:35.455
a cold storage,
1042
01:29:35.915 --> 01:29:36.415
wallet,
1043
01:29:37.630 --> 01:29:39.730
or basically transfer to cold storage
1044
01:29:41.710 --> 01:29:44.610
using, different cold cards at his house
1045
01:29:44.945 --> 01:29:47.685
to get them the education that they need with while risking,
1046
01:29:47.985 --> 01:29:56.510
like, very minimal. So then you start thinking about, like, how can you serve more people? You can take those sort of presentations. You can either record them individually,
1047
01:29:57.210 --> 01:29:57.870
like, tailored,
1048
01:29:58.570 --> 01:30:07.765
for, like, a online format, or you can do it locally at the local level. So then you have options to select from. Whether, like, you're an individual that feels comfortable,
1049
01:30:08.170 --> 01:30:11.469
like, executing it on your own or you need your handheld a bit,
1050
01:30:11.849 --> 01:30:15.949
to get there. And then eventually, once you have enough educational resources,
1051
01:30:16.585 --> 01:30:18.765
create a help and support portal
1052
01:30:19.065 --> 01:30:24.845
along with many different guides to get from get to level 1, to get to level 2, to get to level 3,
1053
01:30:25.409 --> 01:30:42.840
and kinda take you through throughout your Bitcoin journey. So that's something that we're thinking about a lot, like, at the Arizona Bitcoin Network. And a lot of people are very passionate and very knowledgeable, and it's it I think it's on us to, like, lean on the community a bit and open it up to where people can have those presentations
1054
01:30:43.219 --> 01:30:46.199
to to broadcast that message or to share videos.
1055
01:30:46.659 --> 01:30:49.159
So, like, the community is incredibly powerful.
1056
01:30:50.655 --> 01:30:53.155
1057
01:30:53.695 --> 01:30:58.675
economic development centers or corporations in these towns and cities as well. Right?
1058
01:30:59.719 --> 01:31:02.540
And I think you kind of alluded to some of that too, but it's like
1059
01:31:03.400 --> 01:31:04.380
a lot of these,
1060
01:31:04.760 --> 01:31:07.660
you know, like in Redding so I I started this in Redding, California,
1061
01:31:08.215 --> 01:31:12.635
and I actually had some support from the local economic development,
1062
01:31:13.095 --> 01:31:13.595
committee.
1063
01:31:14.055 --> 01:31:26.655
And, like, they were interested. You know? They were they were very curious. Like, just like, the mayor of Miami and, like, all of these politicians are are starting to talk about, like, Bitcoin and stuff whether or not they actually give a shit about it.
1064
01:31:27.614 --> 01:31:28.755
That's game theory.
1065
01:31:29.614 --> 01:31:37.290
So tap into local, you know, community organizers. Right? Like, we're not going to the federal government for this. Like, ask ask,
1066
01:31:37.910 --> 01:31:47.005
someone in your community that that focuses on economic development and, you know, the local chamber of commerce. And and if you're not getting anywhere with that, then, just start your own. Right, Sautos?
1067
01:31:47.305 --> 01:31:51.805
So, like but but pretty soon, they're gonna they're gonna be coming to you,
1068
01:31:52.240 --> 01:31:55.300
and they're gonna be asking how they can empower their community.
1069
01:31:55.760 --> 01:31:57.060
Maybe how they can get
1070
01:31:57.440 --> 01:31:59.540
Visa and Mastercard out of their community.
1071
01:31:59.905 --> 01:32:00.405
And,
1072
01:32:01.185 --> 01:32:01.685
Yeah.
1073
01:32:02.785 --> 01:32:16.230
1074
01:32:16.770 --> 01:32:24.185
essentially Sats for whenever Sats are transacted, use it using the app. So then you can essentially be out there onboarding businesses,
1075
01:32:24.725 --> 01:32:25.785
earn the 1%,
1076
01:32:26.630 --> 01:32:30.890
to support your non profit. And then from there, use that to book venues,
1077
01:32:31.350 --> 01:32:34.010
to purchase books or educational resources,
1078
01:32:34.715 --> 01:32:43.855
marketing materials for the business, which is something that we've developed over a year, taking inspiration from, like, Amex's shop small and tailoring that to Bitcoin.
1079
01:32:44.330 --> 01:32:48.270
Those are all things you can do to massively impact and increase,
1080
01:32:49.290 --> 01:32:53.695
the the, like, the understanding of Bitcoin and getting access to it,
1081
01:32:54.815 --> 01:32:56.675
and to be able to fund your operations
1082
01:32:57.135 --> 01:33:00.435
without even necessarily, like, needing to, like,
1083
01:33:03.130 --> 01:33:05.869
to to sell, like, products or services or or fundraise.
1084
01:33:08.250 --> 01:33:09.290
1085
01:33:10.785 --> 01:33:14.324
Yeah. We we were talking about this the other day. Right? And it's like,
1086
01:33:14.945 --> 01:33:15.685
if that
1087
01:33:16.465 --> 01:33:20.090
if that works out in that way, that's gonna be pretty powerful.
1088
01:33:20.950 --> 01:33:22.970
Yeah. Before you know it, you could have
1089
01:33:23.430 --> 01:33:27.610
you could have cities really pushing for for Bitcoin adoption because it helps
1090
01:33:27.975 --> 01:33:28.715
the city.
1091
01:33:29.175 --> 01:33:31.035
So it's, yeah, it's gonna be pretty crazy.
1092
01:33:31.735 --> 01:33:32.235
1093
01:33:32.695 --> 01:33:34.795
what do you guys thought? So, like,
1094
01:33:35.820 --> 01:33:40.320
nowadays, you go to a merchant. Right? A brick and mortar merchant. Most of them are
1095
01:33:42.219 --> 01:33:44.639
using, like, Toast or Clover or,
1096
01:33:46.605 --> 01:33:47.105
Square.
1097
01:33:47.645 --> 01:33:55.040
There there's, like, what? There's, like I I assume Michael knows these stats. Michael, do you know the stats of the brick and mortar payment terminals?
1098
01:33:55.739 --> 01:34:01.035
1099
01:34:01.835 --> 01:34:09.855
That's my understanding. And, Square has a quarter, I think, of, like, let's say, all, like, small businesses in in the United States.
1100
01:34:11.290 --> 01:34:12.190
There's Clover.
1101
01:34:12.810 --> 01:34:21.465
Clover has different apps. They they have, like, a much more open, like, app app store type thing that you could develop on. Yeah. For those that wanna wanna get into that,
1102
01:34:22.085 --> 01:34:27.580
Square has a nice open API as well to do cool stuff. Toast is completely closed. Dude,
1103
01:34:28.200 --> 01:34:31.100
1104
01:34:31.400 --> 01:34:34.280
1105
01:34:35.085 --> 01:34:39.505
is one of them gonna come out with Bitcoin support? And how does that
1106
01:34:39.885 --> 01:34:40.945
change the equation?
1107
01:34:41.245 --> 01:34:43.905
Is is that something you guys think about? Or
1108
01:34:44.310 --> 01:34:46.410
1109
01:34:48.230 --> 01:34:53.690
like, I think it's gonna be slower to roll out than people realize. That's my understanding. That's my impression.
1110
01:34:54.235 --> 01:34:57.135
I think it's far more likely that there's gonna be some sort of acquisition
1111
01:34:59.275 --> 01:35:01.614
to to do that. Like, even Cash App
1112
01:35:02.220 --> 01:35:06.220
is moving a lot faster than Square even though they're under the same block umbrella, like,
1113
01:35:08.060 --> 01:35:14.135
you know, I I'm I'm optimistic they'll be rolling out a bitcoin terminal but I don't think it's gonna happen anytime soon
1114
01:35:14.675 --> 01:35:15.175
personally.
1115
01:35:16.430 --> 01:35:26.784
1116
01:35:27.804 --> 01:35:28.304
1117
01:35:28.764 --> 01:35:33.664
1118
01:35:34.230 --> 01:35:37.929
1119
01:35:39.030 --> 01:35:42.015
Like, Toast, to my knowledge, doesn't have a Bitcoin plan.
1120
01:35:42.655 --> 01:35:44.915
I don't have, like, insider information. I side
1121
01:35:45.615 --> 01:36:14.409
1122
01:36:14.710 --> 01:36:15.210
lowest,
1123
01:36:15.670 --> 01:36:17.369
like, of who will move first.
1124
01:36:17.725 --> 01:36:18.945
I do I
1125
01:36:19.324 --> 01:36:20.864
I do think that, like,
1126
01:36:21.244 --> 01:36:34.360
I'm hyper bullish, and I think Square will move this year, like, or early next year. And then I think what will happen after that is either McDonald's, Taco Bell, or Starbucks. Basically, all the Fortune 500 companies that are the 2 next
1127
01:36:34.715 --> 01:36:47.950
pill like, dominoes to fall are you're right. 1 of these guys either doing it through acquisition or turning it on, and all the Fortune 500 companies that are running their pilots in El Salvador, so like Starbucks talk about McDonald's.
1128
01:36:48.410 --> 01:37:07.040
One of them, my gut says that their CFO and their financial people are gonna realize that it's going well, and they're gonna turn on a US based pilot. So I think you're gonna see some sort of, like, you're gonna see some sort of, press release from McDonald's that says like, hey, like, select markets now have Bitcoin turned on.
1129
01:37:08.435 --> 01:37:10.995
Like, I think you're gonna see something like that as a big,
1130
01:37:11.475 --> 01:37:17.574
1131
01:37:18.070 --> 01:37:18.570
Do
1132
01:37:19.030 --> 01:37:20.490
let me rephrase the question.
1133
01:37:21.110 --> 01:37:25.290
If, let's say, hypothetically, in a month, one of the major existing
1134
01:37:26.310 --> 01:37:26.810
terminals
1135
01:37:27.785 --> 01:37:30.205
starts accepting lightning payments
1136
01:37:31.305 --> 01:37:35.325
by showing a QR code that any wallet can pay. Does that change
1137
01:37:36.430 --> 01:37:37.570
any of your strategies,
1138
01:37:37.949 --> 01:37:40.370
or does it just speed things up?
1139
01:37:42.590 --> 01:37:43.250
1140
01:37:44.035 --> 01:37:47.055
personally, it just speeds things up. I mean, I'm
1141
01:37:47.635 --> 01:37:49.075
with Oshi, personally, I'm
1142
01:37:49.555 --> 01:37:56.030
are you talking about, like, the projects that I'm working on? Or No. No. So yeah. So so with with with Oshi,
1143
01:37:56.970 --> 01:37:58.270
1144
01:37:59.495 --> 01:38:04.875
one of the major terminals starts accepting Bitcoin. Mhmm. It's just like a software update. They don't need new hardware.
1145
01:38:06.390 --> 01:38:06.890
Oshi
1146
01:38:07.830 --> 01:38:11.830
that's great for Oshi. Right? That's great for the Bitcoin circular economy, or am I
1147
01:38:12.470 --> 01:38:14.970
1148
01:38:15.895 --> 01:38:18.875
We we get businesses connected with POS systems.
1149
01:38:21.255 --> 01:38:25.000
We aim to provide, like, the Bitcoin rewards
1150
01:38:25.540 --> 01:38:26.040
loyalty
1151
01:38:26.340 --> 01:38:28.040
marketing for small businesses
1152
01:38:28.580 --> 01:38:40.880
that are willing to do so, willing to incentivize and entice customers with Bitcoin. So, like, let's say let's say, like, if striking Square has a partnership or something, right, and then it, like, gets rolled out. Okay?
1153
01:38:41.420 --> 01:38:41.920
Like,
1154
01:38:42.220 --> 01:38:43.680
that would be fantastic.
1155
01:38:44.220 --> 01:38:45.520
That would be phenomenal.
1156
01:38:46.460 --> 01:38:57.770
And and even so, like, businesses could still choose whatever payment provider they want. I mean, granted, like, let's say if that happens and whoever, like, if it's if Square partners with somebody and then they roll out lightning,
1157
01:38:58.170 --> 01:39:03.230
like, everyone's gonna use that if they're already using Square. But the cool thing is is that they don't have to.
1158
01:39:04.250 --> 01:39:08.405
They they can, you know, opt into the monetary network using a lot of different things.
1159
01:39:08.785 --> 01:39:09.285
So
1160
01:39:09.825 --> 01:39:38.190
that's that's what's really, really exciting. It'll hasten things. It'll also legitimize it, and it'll make it far easier for me to walk into a business and say, hey. Like, did you know that your terminal accepts Bitcoin payments? Wanna do Bitcoin loyalty just like, you know, Shake Shack is doing or just like, you know, these cash, cash cards are doing on Cash App and all this stuff. Like, do you wanna do it yourself? Like, do you wanna be empowered and have that ability? Then so yeah. I mean, that would be
1161
01:39:38.730 --> 01:39:39.230
fantastic.
1162
01:39:40.315 --> 01:39:49.615
1163
01:39:50.060 --> 01:39:51.280
So, like, what does,
1164
01:39:51.740 --> 01:39:56.400
enabling a business to be able to, like, offer Bitcoin rewards back,
1165
01:39:56.780 --> 01:40:00.735
enable for them? Like, they'll be able to lower the payment processing costs,
1166
01:40:01.115 --> 01:40:03.215
offer a percentage back on the purchase.
1167
01:40:03.515 --> 01:40:05.455
And I can imagine, like, many people,
1168
01:40:05.880 --> 01:40:10.940
like, going back to that restaurant specifically because it has a Bitcoin loyalty program.
1169
01:40:13.625 --> 01:40:29.710
So the the Bitcoin isn't the businesses that are Bitcoin powered essentially will retain their customers better as well, which is incredibly powerful for for them because acquiring new customers is always significantly more costly than retaining your existing customers.
1170
01:40:31.355 --> 01:40:34.975
1171
01:40:35.595 --> 01:40:39.855
let's say there's a business that is opted to take a certain percentage
1172
01:40:40.180 --> 01:40:44.440
of all Bitcoin payments and hold them on their balance sheet. Let's say they hold
1173
01:40:44.740 --> 01:40:46.920
the full amount, every coffee they sell.
1174
01:40:47.255 --> 01:40:50.235
They're gonna give 10% sats back on this cup of coffee.
1175
01:40:50.695 --> 01:40:51.835
In a year's time,
1176
01:40:52.534 --> 01:41:11.395
if they're if they if they're quote, unquote feeling lucky, right, they they could hold on to that Bitcoin. And do they anticipate that the price of Bitcoin is gonna go up more than 10% within 12 months or within 18 months. If they're willing to hold the Bitcoin for that time, that 10% discount or Sats back promotion to acquire those new customers was was free.
1177
01:41:12.240 --> 01:41:14.820
It was free. Yeah. And and that gets
1178
01:41:15.760 --> 01:41:17.940
absolutely insane. Like, if that particular
1179
01:41:18.320 --> 01:41:31.540
1180
01:41:31.840 --> 01:41:32.660
Like like,
1181
01:41:33.120 --> 01:41:51.070
Bitcoiners need to be focused on their own Sats flow. Like, that's the reason why I don't like the, like, dollars as checking account, Bitcoin as savings account thing because every single Bitcoiner is a business. Like, every single Bitcoiner is a merchant. Like, you need to be focused on your SaaS flow, and we need to be focused on acquiring
1182
01:41:52.090 --> 01:41:53.790
fiat, like like,
1183
01:41:54.570 --> 01:41:55.070
physical
1184
01:41:55.974 --> 01:41:56.474
places
1185
01:41:57.094 --> 01:42:09.590
so that we can continue to, like, make the world a better place. Like, if these businesses are not gonna start upgrading to the new money, then we're gonna buy them. For sats on the dollar, we're gonna upgrade them, and we're going to continue,
1186
01:42:10.050 --> 01:42:11.190
like, doing this.
1187
01:42:18.255 --> 01:42:19.555
1188
01:42:20.255 --> 01:42:22.515
And, look, this has been a fantastic conversation.
1189
01:42:23.120 --> 01:42:24.659
I appreciate all of your time.
1190
01:42:25.120 --> 01:42:27.540
I think it's a very important topic, especially
1191
01:42:28.239 --> 01:42:29.540
the whole meetup grassroots,
1192
01:42:32.335 --> 01:42:35.155
being the change you wanna see in the world in your local community,
1193
01:42:35.855 --> 01:42:37.155
be good to your neighbors.
1194
01:42:39.020 --> 01:42:41.600
I like to we're about to hit the 2 hour mark.
1195
01:42:42.140 --> 01:42:46.320
I want to be courteous of your time. I like to wrap this up with
1196
01:42:46.925 --> 01:42:47.665
final thoughts.
1197
01:42:50.605 --> 01:42:52.545
Santos, we'll start with you. Final thoughts.
1198
01:42:53.565 --> 01:42:54.785
1199
01:42:55.165 --> 01:42:59.240
Absolutely honored to be here and, like, share some of these ideas and strategies,
1200
01:43:00.260 --> 01:43:04.760
discuss what's going on in Arizona. So if you're ever in Arizona, please just check out,
1201
01:43:05.385 --> 01:43:06.365
you know, meetup.com/,
1202
01:43:07.625 --> 01:43:12.845
I think, az bitcoiners, or that might be our Twitter handle, and and, join us for a drink.
1203
01:43:14.130 --> 01:43:15.430
1204
01:43:15.730 --> 01:43:17.110
Brian, final thoughts.
1205
01:43:17.970 --> 01:43:25.845
1206
01:43:26.465 --> 01:43:35.460
just appreciate, like, what you and Marty do. And when Marty interviewed, like, Mike from Bitcoin Beach, it made me realize, like, all the tools are available right now. And so having, like,
1207
01:43:36.179 --> 01:43:41.525
Osheyap and Michael come down to Southern California, like at Next Burger that day when we had that party and then watching what Michael has done,
1208
01:43:42.085 --> 01:43:54.810
and watching what Kyle's doing in Austin and, like, meeting the guys in Kansas City, just got back from Oklahoma. Like, that all means, like, a really lot to me. So Bitcoin means a lot to me, and I'm thankful to, like, do this with all of you and, like, honestly, helpful.
1209
01:43:56.470 --> 01:43:56.970
1210
01:43:57.494 --> 01:44:01.755
I appreciate you as well, Brian. Thanks for coming on the show. Michael, final thoughts.
1211
01:44:02.454 --> 01:44:10.350
1212
01:44:10.970 --> 01:44:12.750
and, Citadel Dispatch,
1213
01:44:13.210 --> 01:44:14.270
basically, like,
1214
01:44:14.985 --> 01:44:16.764
religious religious following there.
1215
01:44:17.625 --> 01:44:19.885
Yeah. I think I think it's just time
1216
01:44:20.905 --> 01:44:21.304
for,
1217
01:44:21.810 --> 01:44:29.350
for people to kinda get out there and, like, shake a business owner's hand, right, and and just start the conversation.
1218
01:44:29.845 --> 01:44:33.145
Like, what what Brian was saying, what Santos was saying, like,
1219
01:44:33.925 --> 01:44:34.745
it's happening.
1220
01:44:35.605 --> 01:44:39.145
We can we can start, like, a little piece of Bitcoin Beach,
1221
01:44:39.580 --> 01:44:41.840
like, in in cities all across the country,
1222
01:44:42.300 --> 01:44:43.520
all across the world.
1223
01:44:44.460 --> 01:44:45.679
What the tiny,
1224
01:44:46.060 --> 01:44:53.725
like, town of El Zante, El Salvador, right, with a small group of people and a lot of passion were able to do, like, that should be
1225
01:44:54.585 --> 01:44:57.805
the thing that gets people going that, like, this can happen anywhere.
1226
01:44:58.430 --> 01:45:01.969
Right? And even if the reasons are a little different for why it happens. Right?
1227
01:45:02.270 --> 01:45:03.489
Like, it can happen.
1228
01:45:04.030 --> 01:45:10.614
So, like, we're rolling into Miami to Nashville. The beat ups are blowing up in Austin, like, everywhere. Right? Phoenix.
1229
01:45:11.474 --> 01:45:12.934
Just keep it going, everyone.
1230
01:45:13.235 --> 01:45:14.695
1231
01:45:16.350 --> 01:45:17.170
It's it's
1232
01:45:17.710 --> 01:45:20.850
it was a pleasure kicking with you. Are are you guys gonna be in Miami?
1233
01:45:22.350 --> 01:45:28.465
Yeah. We'll be there. Brian will be there. Michael, you'll be there? Yeah. I'll be there. We'll have probably
1234
01:45:29.724 --> 01:45:35.170
1235
01:45:36.430 --> 01:45:41.330
It's gonna be cool. So, yeah, go out go out and support them. Santos, you'll be there too?
1236
01:45:41.905 --> 01:45:50.085
1237
01:45:51.020 --> 01:45:57.679
So I guess, Michael, like, people should download Oshi app before they go to Miami so they can see which merchants are available there.
1238
01:45:58.175 --> 01:46:06.355
1239
01:46:06.750 --> 01:46:12.530
Should should I show your code, Matt? Yeah. Show show my scam code. It's a scam code. So oshi.tech/odell.
1240
01:46:15.255 --> 01:46:19.115
1241
01:46:20.215 --> 01:46:26.989
1242
01:46:28.030 --> 01:46:55.765
1243
01:46:57.130 --> 01:47:03.310
1244
01:47:04.090 --> 01:47:05.950
1245
01:47:06.315 --> 01:47:07.135
1246
01:47:08.554 --> 01:47:10.655
I love all you guys. This is a great conversation.
1247
01:47:11.114 --> 01:47:15.375
Thank you to all the freaks who joined us. I hope you found this conversation as helpful
1248
01:47:16.170 --> 01:47:16.830
and as
1249
01:47:17.290 --> 01:47:19.070
as interesting as I did.
1250
01:47:19.770 --> 01:47:22.989
Reminder, next week's dispatch will be in person in Miami.
1251
01:47:23.645 --> 01:47:26.145
If you wanna join us for that, that's still dispatch.com/miami.
1252
01:47:29.005 --> 01:47:33.340
Space is limited. Drinks will be included so we can kick it and have a good time.
1253
01:47:34.520 --> 01:47:41.765
I'm not sure if I'm gonna be able to broadcast that live. I'm gonna try to if I can. If not, it'll be posted, you know, immediately following,
1254
01:47:42.145 --> 01:47:43.125
the live conversation.
1255
01:47:45.345 --> 01:47:50.725
Yep. With all that said, thanks to our guests one more time, and thanks to the freaks. Cheers, guys.
1256
01:47:53.190 --> 01:47:54.330
1257
01:51:58.195 --> 01:51:58.695
Very.
1258
01:52:00.915 --> 01:52:01.735
1259
01:52:04.610 --> 01:52:09.510
