March 16, 2022
CD59: the viral nature of information and the power of open source software with @r0ckstardev
EPISODE: 59
BLOCK: 727490
PRICE: 2529 sats per dollar
TOPICS: privacy, open source software, information velocity, signal through the noise, wasabi blacklisting, nyms, social media, tradeoffs, personal responsibility, support your tribe
https://citadeldispatch.com/cd59
@r0ckstardev: https://twitter.com/@r0ckstardev
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00:00 - Published then removed comments on an upcoming executive order on cryptocurrencies.
00:44 - President Biden will sign this executive order today calling for just that in the crypto industry.
01:14 - The White House is directing a government wide audit of the risk and potential benefits focused on a list of 6 key priorities.
50:06 - Disappearing friends and family after leaving a platform
51:07 - Finding a tribe on Twitter
52:52 - Privacy and the balancing act
01:42:02 - The future of Bitcoin privacy
01:44:04 - The importance of privacy wallets and BTCPay
01:46:27 - The lack of focus on privacy in the Bitcoin space
WEBVTT
NOTE
Transcription provided by Podhome.fm
Created: 3/17/2024 4:28:27 PM
Duration: 7796.14
Channels: 1
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Published then removed comments on an upcoming executive order on cryptocurrencies.
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The prices jumped on that, release, and now the details of the actual executive order
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are out and even
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you can remove it a lot. It's like when I delete a tweet, you know, when I think better of something. Someone's got it already. I it's like too late. You know, once you've done it, you've done it. And I saw the executive order, and it was like, you know, exactly what you would have thought. We wanna make it safe for investors. We wanna lead in innovation, but, we wanna make sure we have the right kind of regulation that protects people. We wanna, you know, protect the environment. All the normal things that but not very specific,
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I don't think, about how you're gonna do all that.
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Right. What they're saying is that this is responsible innovation. President Biden will sign this executive order today
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calling for just that in the crypto industry.
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The White House is directing a government wide audit of the risk and potential benefits focused on a list of 6 key priorities, and those are consumer and investor protection, financial stability,
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illicit finance,
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US competitiveness,
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equity and inclusion,
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and a host of other factors like privacy, security, and climate. Now treasury is tasked with developing policy recommendations for the industry as well as issuing a report on the future of money and on payment systems. The commerce department would take the lead on creating a framework for the best ways to use the technology,
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and the administration is encouraging regulators
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to provide sufficient
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oversight and safeguard against systemic risk. Now this order calls understanding how a central bank digital currency might work urgent, but a senior administration official said that foreign CBDC do not pose a threat to the dollar. The White House said that they were having extensive engagement with the industry before announcing this directive,
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and in fact, they started calling those weekend meetings crypto Sundays.
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So as you mentioned, the initial response
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to the,
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inaccurately posted or incorrectly posted treasury
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statement was positive. But now that folks can dig the details, we'll see if that sentiment holds. It just seems
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Happy Bitcoin Tuesday, freaks.
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It's your boy Odell here for another Citadel dispatch.
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Citadel dispatch is an interactive live show about Bitcoin distributed systems privacy and open source software.
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That clip you saw
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just previously was about the executive order,
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that appears to be a massive nothing burger,
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and they were talking about it on CNBC. That was the US executive order.
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If you're joining us here live, you're either joining us on Twitch at twitch.tv/sitoldispatchorviabitcointv.com.
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If you just click civil dispatch after you go to bitcointv.com,
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you can see the stream there as well,
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and on Twitter.
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Dispatches also broadcast to your favorite podcast app after the show with all archives
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video archives posted to bitcoin tv.com.
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I wanna thank all the freaks who continue to support the show, keeping dispatch a 100% audience funded without ads or sponsors, purely focused on actionable Bitcoin discussion.
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Really could not do it without you.
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Also wanna thank all the freaks who joined us in the live chat, which is self hosted on Matrix.
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You can get to that live chat by going to citadel dispatch.com
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and clicking that big citadel chat link,
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on the site.
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Our live chat now has over 900 ride or die Bitcoiners
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that are constantly having really great
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discussion throughout the week, not just on Tuesdays for the show. So be sure to join us.
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I know it might sound complicated because
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the the name is called Matrix, and I said the word self hosted, but it's actually rather simple. So if you just click that link and and follow the steps, I I have faith that you can figure it out. Like I said, over 900 other people figured it out.
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The two easiest ways to support the show is either going to ciel dispatch.com
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and,
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clicking our BTC pay link there. You can you can send,
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either on chain Bitcoin or Bitcoin via lightning.
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I also have,
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my samurai payment there and my which links to my BIV 47 payment code. If you know what that means,
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it means you can send me on chain payments via either Samura1 or Sparrow.
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The other easy way to support the show, which a lot of freaks seem to be enjoying, is podcasting 2 point o apps. They they work like a regular podcasting app,
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but you're able to load them up with sats and choose how many sats per minute you think,
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dispatch is worth. And then as you're listening,
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it will literally stream sats directly to my node. Every day of the week, I, like, open up.
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I I I go and look at my node, and I just see,
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you know, 1 sat, 2 sat just coming in every minute.
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It's it's not necessarily much, but it's, extremely rewarding,
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just just seeing you guys listening and supporting at the same time.
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And on that note,
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it's come to my attention that,
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since dispatch is one of the most popular shows on fountain podcasts
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so my 2 favorite podcasting 2.0 apps are fountain podcasts
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and Breeze Wallet, and it's come to my attention that Fountain Podcast is running a promotion.
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So if you listen to any episode of dispatch through fountain podcast and you're a new user,
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I believe they are going to send you a 1,000 free sats,
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and one random person at the end of the month will get 50,000 sets.
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So just keep that in mind if you haven't checked out fountain. One disclaimer on that fountain thing is right now as it stands,
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it is a custodial wallet, so don't put too much money into it,
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and it does require an email address. So consider the privacy implications of providing an email address, maybe make a burner email or something like that.
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Okay.
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With all that said, I know I was a little rough around the edges on that intro.
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This is still dispatch 59.
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We have the 1 and only rockstar dev,
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famously known for his work on BTC pay server and now strike here to join us for the 2nd time ever.
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What's up, rock star? How's it going?
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Whenever I'm with you, Matt, it's going amazing
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here to
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encourage and inspire, as I said, in our exchange when you were announcing this
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podcast.
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Love you, bro. Do you remember what episode,
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you were on originally?
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Well, I don't remember the number, but I remember being with Suheb and talking about lightning
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and RTL and all that stuff.
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And then
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by 12 Citadel dispatch.com/cd12.
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If you haven't listened to that, that was a really fun rip.
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Yeah. Exactly. You just okay. Now I know it's inverse of 21. It's 12. I did I did duck, duck, goose it. I'm not on Lavera, so I don't remember
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I don't remember all the not only not only do I not remember all my episodes, I don't prepare before my episodes, so I didn't look it up at the time.
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Listen, we can't all be polished, Estefan. I mean, come on. That angel voice when he sings,
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maybe we should play some clip of him singing, and then, you know, it can inspire you and me to be better, like, do more. If you haven't seen Stefan,
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at 2 in the morning doing karaoke, are are you even a big winner?
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Yeah.
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I'm so glad that we are so early, like, already asking the questions that really matter because
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Well, I mean, I I have a feeling that this conversation so the topic of this conversation is the viral nature of information and the power of open source software.
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I feel like
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there's been a lot of darkness lately in terms of, like, the news and current events
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and things that impact sovereignty and privacy,
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So I have a feeling that this conversation is gonna get
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pretty solemn really quickly. Not hopeless,
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but solemnly optimistic.
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So, like, on that note, like, it's kinda nice to, you know, start it up with a bit of of cheer.
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So I think bringing up Stephan's beautiful voice is is one aspect of that, but another is right before he went live.
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I know you're a relatively new American,
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but it appears that the US government
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what?
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Docs. But, yeah, let's keep going. Yeah.
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The US government,
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did
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the most effective thing they've done in my whole lifetime, which was repeal their horrible policy of time changes twice a year.
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So now we will not have time changes anymore is my understanding.
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Oh my god. I missed that one. Like, is it real? Or you're like, an hour ago. I'm I'm like, I'm pretty sure I did, like, a triple
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triple double triple check, triple double check. I did a I did a 6 time check,
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and, I'm pretty sure it passed the house and the senate, and we're good to go. In typical US fashion or typical government fashion, it's permanent daylight savings time. They couldn't just do permanent time,
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but at least there'll be no time switch.
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Well, this is also why it's great that you're doing this,
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this podcast with the live chat, live audience. See? Like, we are we get connected in the real time. Just said? Yeah. It's, like, only senate does not house yet. Yeah.
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I'm pretty sure how the house passed it. Did the house not pass it? Does it all do things always go to senate first and then house? I don't know how it works.
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Matt. Matt. What you need to embrace is the fact that you're a dream boy. So you see you see the future road
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No, no, it will,
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it is passing the house as well, man. Just you see the future and that's why also people love you. And that's why it's so hard on you because you see the best possible futures
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and then the rest of us can't live up to that standard. But as I said, no worries.
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I'm here to talk about all of that because you you scared me, man. You you said,
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government and I immediately thought we were going to, like, discuss this bill, whatever it is.
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Which one?
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The one that's
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about,
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regulating
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crypto currencies? Like, what is that
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the the one you played in the intro video?
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That was the executive order that Biden,
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Biden, like, pulled to Justin Sun. He did an announcement of an announcement.
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No, man. I'm telling you, as as soon as I now see equity and inclusion in in paragraph, I'm like, okay. They ran out of ideas, like what to add here, but they needed announce announcement of something. Oh, yeah. I mean, before we continue, I just wanna say that if if the house doesn't fucking do this, I'm gonna take
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I'm gonna feel personally guilty that I jinxed it. I'm I'm a strong believer in the jinx.
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You you wanna you wanna bet? So if we do get rug pulled if we do get rug pulled on this, I'm gonna say that,
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that that that's on me, freaks, and I apologize.
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No. We we can bet it's it's being it's getting past. I can win the same way. Inside man?
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I just believe in your visions, man. And I believe in you, so
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I know what's what's happening. And
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I as you said, I'm involved with BTC based server. I'm involved with Strike. I can recognize
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correct vision early on. So
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yeah. Okay. Well, BTC PINs is saying that it'd be weird if the house held it up. The senate passed it unanimously. So,
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fingers crossed.
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I guess my fact checking was absolutely abysmal then, but I was rushing to get dispatch up. So
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there's that. So let's talk about this executive order. Do you have any thoughts on it? Did you look into it at all? Or
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it doesn't say Bitcoin once in the whole executive order.
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My,
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my only comment is is what that,
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what is, like, rich dad, poor dad. He he was he explained it the best.
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It's like everything
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piled on and,
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doesn't make any sense. I'm telling you at this point,
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we're just living in in completely
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information
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mad world, and politicians are just announcing thing after thing after thing that doesn't mean anything.
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Except for the permanent no time change thing.
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That's why I was so surprised when you announced it to, like, thank God. So something useful after It seems so practically useful. Right? Just, like, don't don't fuck with my time twice a year.
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Now I want us to the next thing is we just need a standard time zone. What do you what do you think about the standard time zone idea?
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So
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what is it like?
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It We're just all in the same time zone.
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No. I mean, ideally, I want it to be global, but if if not global, like, at least America is just all on one time zone.
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No. No.
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Was What does it matter what the number is on your watch when it's dark or when it's light? It should just be the same number regardless if you're in in New York or Texas or
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I mean, no one should be in California.
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Because when you when you start to travel
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around the world, it would be completely like crazy,
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this way what you do,
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because you would have people
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used
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to 2 AM, meaning something completely different than another person, like, is But if you got if you got on a plane and flew 7 hours, you would land
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7 hours later than when you got on the plane.
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No. You're optimizing the wrong thing. No. It's like
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the we spent 1,000,000 of years
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in
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certain
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rhythm and just changing that rhythm because it's a marginal gain for, for something like, you know, flying across.
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It is. It is. No. You shouldn't do that. I mean, you work you you work on 2 remote projects. Right? Strike is Mhmm. Got a lot of remote employees, I presume, and I know BTCPay has a lot of contributors from around the world. Yeah.
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Isn't it a fucking pain in the ass coordinating
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what what time zone you're talking about and stuff? Like, what time is it here? What time is it there?
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No. No. You you just get used to
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the tools, like,
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every time zone, use calendar.
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It's just you use tool to abstract that in a much better way, because
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otherwise, when when I would say, oh, it's 9 AM here and I'm just waking up, then that would have completely different
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meaning for people that would have, oh, I'm waking up at 2 AM. So no.
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Sorry. Engineering is rejecting your, you know, full request. Well, I'm gonna continue with UTC as my standard time. And, whoever wants to join me whoever wants to join me can join me. I do announce dispatch.
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I use eastern time and UTC time when I when I announce dispatch.
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Here we go.
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You go with your standard and see how many people will join you because,
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when it comes to using UTC,
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that's one of the engineering best practices because you always use UTC. The
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whole world to just use fucking UTC.
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No. No. That's why you have front end, and then,
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front end developers do the whole load, detect in which time zone the device is, and
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display it nicely for the user. We have a freak saying,
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Nick b is saying that time should be measured in block height.
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My personal belief is that block height should be past times,
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and in the when you're talking about present or future times, you should be using UTC because block height, you you know, it's a poison distribution or
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poisson. I don't know how to pronounce it. So you don't really know when the block's gonna come in. You need, like, an
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actual objective time period for when you're gonna meet someone. You can't be like, I'm gonna meet you in 3 blocks, and you don't know when they're gonna come in.
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Yeah. But I'm I'm telling you, like, I I do like that idea because
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the way humanity advances is through those paradigm shifts and,
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simply
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clocks and times,
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and in time zones, they are too embedded into our current system. So if we do come up with, like, completely new system,
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I am more for that. But,
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going back to the topic of this podcast, like that's exactly no. But that's
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and it's extremely
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hard, and and we are optimizing
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beyond the point of usefulness. So
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yeah.
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Yeah. I feel that.
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Mhmm. Okay. So executive order to me was just,
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was was mostly just like politicians patting themselves on the back saying, like, oh, like, we're taking this, quote, unquote, crypto thing seriously. Look. We have an executive order. We're doing things. But
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it was really a a nothing burger in terms of, like, actual
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practice.
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That's absolutely what it was.
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But,
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on on the opposite side,
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I mean,
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would you agree that just this whole idea
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of of even, like,
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taking the time to
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maybe worry about politics or try and change politics is
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pretty much a wasted effort, and the focus should be more on
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on on building code and running code and
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and actionable changes that we can do as individuals.
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Yeah. I,
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I do think we all need to recognize
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the
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impact that politicians and politics have on our daily life,
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but absolutely, yeah, work in direction where
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it doesn't really. I mean, you know, you just
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donate, like,
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US is so great as you because you already doxed me as a new American man. Like, back in Europe, we call that corruption. Here, it's like
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lobbying,
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whatever it is. Corruption. Right? It's just a different word. It's such a better word, man. It's like lobbying for a goal. No. It's it's beautiful. Like, I'm telling you marketing, and then how you wrap it is, like, all the difference.
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This is not a bribe. This is just fundraising.
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Yes. And you know, it's,
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yeah, don't, don't even get me started because I'll just go off rails. But for me,
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it's just recognizing
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what has impact on you and,
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trying to build an environment in which everything that impacts you
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is, is, is kind of you, you opted into it
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because that's,
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that's in a nutshell, why, why also privacy is so important.
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Whatever is public
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and involves
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everyone.
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It
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suddenly you have so many things to worry about,
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but things that are private that are between certain parties, it's much more elegant system.
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And,
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yeah, I'm looking forward to 2 of us discussing
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the history of, like, how how we,
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where we started,
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what was the development, how we got here because
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it all also has to do with the speed of information.
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Privacy
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like, when people talk about privacy and how things were better
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back in the day, I always respond. It wasn't, it's just that
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if you
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did something terrible, I like made a stupid decision. It wasn't on internet for everyone to, to record it
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and be like with a crypto deleted tweets on whatever.
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Now now it's just information is so much faster. Information can be killed,
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and privacy
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importance of privacy grows in, like, order of magnitude,
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including the
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acts by politicians. So look really looking forward to discussing that with you.
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But it's interesting. Right? Because it's like,
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I mean, information
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is is inherently viral, and it's more viral than ever
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in this connected world that we have.
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But but the we're kind of in a situation right now, right, where we have a flood of information. Right? And it's hard. Yeah. A lot of times, it's hard to verify sources.
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I mean, you just saw I just did a very lazy, I guess, a very lazy job of verifying my sources
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for this daylight savings thing, but you have, like, you know, these all caps Twitter accounts that just post things without sources.
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Then people retweet them, then other people copy their tweet or reuse that tweet as a source, and then there's Photoshop and
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VideoShop or whatever,
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video deep fakes.
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It's it's almost harder than ever to actually
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verify information.
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Yep. And you just so much noise.
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And you just talked about this with, Marty on TFTC, man.
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You said it yourself. Like,
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not everything is a psy op,
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and it's
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making critical tinker thinkers like you burn out.
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The psy op is that everything's a psy op.
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Yeah. But,
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PSIOP is not PSIOP
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rather. It's just that information velocity is too much.
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Yeah. It's it's what you said about like being a critical thinker, which you are. You are, you are one of the best we have in Bitcoin,
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but the critical thinkers need time to process those, you know, important questions like who, what, where, when, why, how. Like, you need to ask, okay, who benefits from this? Then you need to think about it.
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But
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then you get executive order, then you get this, then you get that. And Right. It's like you're just reacting, and then everything is just, like, as quick as possible, react, react, react, react, and then you're onto the next thing. React, react, react.
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Exactly. And,
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that's the beauty of of privacy of Bitcoin, really, because it allows you to to disconnect
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and
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not
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worry, especially when we do get on on Bitcoin standard.
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No longer will we
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need to follow. K. Yeah. Politicians just gathered together
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and got 21% increase. I mean, is that verified?
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Because I found that one phenomenal.
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Like
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with Bitcoin, 21,000,000,
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but they also increased their salaries by 21%.
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I I love their salaries by 21%?
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Senate.
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BTC pins. Can we get
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fact checkers?
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Politics fact checker.
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I didn't hear that.
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You
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you see I believe that their their salary should be reversed pegged to inflation. So as inflation increases, they should go
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they should go down by the inflation rate.
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That I feel like that would be a cool rule.
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No. They definitely like Watch inflation get get squashed if they if that rule ever got passed.
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So, I mean, that that's one of the I mean, you mentioned something there and and, you know, to me, that's always been one of the really cool aspects of Bitcoin
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and really just a free open source software movement in general, but just this idea of objective truth.
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Right? This idea that,
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I don't know if there's any real other objective truth,
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besides something that you can actually verify yourself
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and know that it hasn't been fucked with.
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And, you know, Bitcoin
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encapsulates
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that on even a grander scale than, I would say, other free open source software and the fact that,
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you have this idea of proof of work. Right? And you have this idea
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of
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of of that, you know, this this chain is
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is is backed by that work, and it's
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it's it hasn't been tampered with. It hasn't been fucked with. There's there's no corruption at the base level.
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Yep.
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Exactly. Because,
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I have this weekly discussion with my
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most successful nephew, Jack Mallers, and we were talking about, like, what is it
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that that gives value? And it is that proof of work,
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We got a freaking,
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sorry to cut you off, from Twitch that says
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21%
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increase
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There we go. Members representational
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allowance,
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but I don't think it's been passed.
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Well, we will see as as our It's in the omnibus bill. You know, they, like, make these massive bills that have to pass,
347
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so it'll probably it'll probably get I don't know which one of them would vote against it. Like, why wouldn't, why would they vote against their own pay raise? I'm surprised they didn't make it more.
348
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Well, there there are like
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few shreds of credibility
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and actual altruism left, I would say, because you saw the, the, the bill
351
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read the bill bill
352
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that, that wanted to cap. Like, if your bill is like 100,
353
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well, 100,000
354
00:27:24.685 --> 00:27:26.545
pages, like we need at least like
355
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10 days to read it.
356
00:27:30.210 --> 00:27:32.789
You saw that 1 or no? Did that pass?
357
00:27:33.570 --> 00:27:46.490
No. It was just, like, proposed, but it's like it would but that's the thing. That's like a pat yourself on the back bill. Right? Like they know it's not gonna fucking pass and then they get to go and tell their constituent. It's like this executive order to go and tell their constituents, look, I care. I'm doing things.
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I actually like that bill because if there is a bill that's 2,000 pages
359
00:27:53.530 --> 00:27:58.705
and it passes in matter of, like, 17 hours. Like like who read that?
360
00:28:00.045 --> 00:28:01.825
You know? No one read that.
361
00:28:02.650 --> 00:28:07.710
It's fucking insane. I mean, 2,000 pages is small, I think. Like, these omnibus bills are, like,
362
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80,000, a 100,000 pages.
363
00:28:13.195 --> 00:28:19.135
That's exactly where we need to step in, like like, all of us and start acknowledging
364
00:28:20.260 --> 00:28:25.160
failures because otherwise, like this whole world with information velocity
365
00:28:25.860 --> 00:28:33.534
is definitely going to hell. I mean, we, we are just jumping from one thing to the other. Like you, you start looking at the world and it's like
366
00:28:34.155 --> 00:28:35.455
1 giant teenage
367
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ADA
368
00:28:37.260 --> 00:28:38.640
ADHD, man. Like whatever,
369
00:28:40.380 --> 00:28:45.615
whatever goes, basically it's that latest meme. I support the current thing. It's just
370
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exhausting for everyone. And and
371
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I do expect yeah.
372
00:28:50.655 --> 00:28:51.155
Well,
373
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people that are in in like really have power and really have influence, really have money.
374
00:28:57.720 --> 00:29:00.755
They're already out of the system because this current system is
375
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completely unsustainable.
376
00:29:03.135 --> 00:29:03.875
It's just
377
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people that are in it. Don't have
378
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guts,
379
00:29:09.240 --> 00:29:19.885
courage to to recognize it. And yeah. But but, yeah, it's What what what can what can the freaks do in this environment? What can I do in this environment? Because I'm definitely feeling
380
00:29:20.665 --> 00:29:21.885
fatigued by it.
381
00:29:23.360 --> 00:29:30.740
Well, because you say this is always actionable Bitcoin discussion, I had a proposal for today's action for everyone,
382
00:29:32.795 --> 00:29:35.055
that's listening or will listen,
383
00:29:35.435 --> 00:29:36.415
and that is
384
00:29:36.875 --> 00:29:39.135
establish your new digital identity,
385
00:29:40.630 --> 00:29:45.050
which is what I will be well, I already did it. I have few,
386
00:29:45.350 --> 00:29:45.670
but,
387
00:29:47.645 --> 00:29:50.045
yeah, let's let's get that over with because,
388
00:29:50.605 --> 00:29:52.545
we mentioned Stephane in the intro.
389
00:29:52.925 --> 00:29:57.025
Yes. Big news, breaking news. We can now tweet breaking.
390
00:29:58.030 --> 00:29:59.250
Rockstar is dying.
391
00:30:00.990 --> 00:30:01.310
And,
392
00:30:02.110 --> 00:30:03.970
I was already telling you Rockstar.
393
00:30:05.365 --> 00:30:09.545
The funeral. Yes. And now date is set. It's August 13th.
394
00:30:11.365 --> 00:30:13.465
So You've set the date already.
395
00:30:14.510 --> 00:30:17.230
Well, it's it's good to know when you when you will die,
396
00:30:17.550 --> 00:30:19.330
but I wanted to
397
00:30:20.910 --> 00:30:24.315
I wanted to formally invite you to give Eulogy,
398
00:30:26.055 --> 00:30:28.475
UTC, of course. We'll go with UTC,
399
00:30:28.935 --> 00:30:29.435
but
400
00:30:29.975 --> 00:30:32.950
formally invite you to give Eulogy. You'll be the speaker.
401
00:30:33.270 --> 00:30:36.090
Livera is singing. He's already in. Okay.
402
00:30:36.390 --> 00:30:38.230
I'm done. So so, I mean
403
00:30:38.845 --> 00:30:42.865
so you're gonna you're still gonna be around. You're just gonna be operating on the other nims.
404
00:30:43.405 --> 00:30:43.905
Right?
405
00:30:44.685 --> 00:30:45.185
Well,
406
00:30:45.565 --> 00:30:47.505
we'll see. We'll see.
407
00:30:49.200 --> 00:30:57.539
Yeah. Like, I don't want the freaks to, like, start sending you flowers or whatever. Like, save your sets. Of course. No. No. They should send He's not physically dying.
408
00:30:58.605 --> 00:31:02.145
Yes. They they should send hats, not flowers. Send hats.
409
00:31:02.845 --> 00:31:05.905
This is the latest hat present from
410
00:31:06.205 --> 00:31:07.185
my dear Benz.
411
00:31:08.000 --> 00:31:11.920
So I wanted to talk about this. I mean, so you you mentioned it as a,
412
00:31:14.080 --> 00:31:18.485
as an actual thing, and I think this is this is an important exercise. I mean, it's I think
413
00:31:18.865 --> 00:31:21.845
I think people, if they haven't yet, should, you know,
414
00:31:22.545 --> 00:31:26.405
like, start getting your hands dirty, like, play around, make nims.
415
00:31:26.830 --> 00:31:29.090
Like, it doesn't have to be perfect in the beginning.
416
00:31:30.029 --> 00:31:33.490
Disposable NIMs, change them up. And when we say NIMs,
417
00:31:34.645 --> 00:31:38.585
we it's short for pseudonyms. So, you know, not your real name,
418
00:31:40.085 --> 00:31:41.304
not your real picture,
419
00:31:42.960 --> 00:31:49.060
not attached to your, you know, the Gmail address that I hope you're not using for absolutely every account you sign up to,
420
00:31:49.765 --> 00:31:54.665
not attached to your phone number that you've used since you were 10 years old,
421
00:31:56.005 --> 00:31:59.990
that is basically acts like a Social Security number and ties all your identities together.
422
00:32:00.370 --> 00:32:03.830
Like, start practicing playing around with with this as a concept.
423
00:32:04.210 --> 00:32:05.830
I mean, I think everyone should.
424
00:32:07.775 --> 00:32:14.995
But on the on the Bitcoin side, I mean, I actually wanted to talk to you about this because I was discussing this with a bunch of freaks
425
00:32:16.080 --> 00:32:19.060
in the Citadel chat, in the Matrix chat earlier today,
426
00:32:20.080 --> 00:32:25.860
in particular about the whole Wasabi thing, which, I mean, we can get to as well, but let's get to this first. Do you
427
00:32:26.195 --> 00:32:27.015
do you think
428
00:32:27.715 --> 00:32:30.294
that just as a as a industry
429
00:32:30.674 --> 00:32:33.654
in general, like, as a community in general, we just don't,
430
00:32:35.180 --> 00:32:38.800
we have too many known figures and too few NIMs.
431
00:32:39.180 --> 00:32:42.800
Like, do you especially, like, in the, like, core dev community and whatnot.
432
00:32:45.664 --> 00:32:46.644
Yes. Absolutely.
433
00:32:47.105 --> 00:32:48.325
Because it's
434
00:32:48.945 --> 00:32:52.004
game theory is skewed toward identities.
435
00:32:53.380 --> 00:32:53.880
Like,
436
00:32:54.260 --> 00:32:58.120
how how do you even get on these podcasts
437
00:32:58.660 --> 00:33:02.040
if if you're NIM and you do want to, you know,
438
00:33:03.845 --> 00:33:09.225
preserve your privacy. And even podcast is cool, but how do you get on the stage of a conference
439
00:33:09.605 --> 00:33:10.510
and give a talk?
440
00:33:10.990 --> 00:33:13.570
Which is why I've been doing this. Figured that out.
441
00:33:14.270 --> 00:33:14.770
What?
442
00:33:15.230 --> 00:33:17.810
Gigi figured that out with his green suit on stage.
443
00:33:20.105 --> 00:33:22.665
Yeah. He took it to the next level. So,
444
00:33:23.305 --> 00:33:23.805
I,
445
00:33:24.345 --> 00:33:26.605
what I am doing is I have every
446
00:33:26.920 --> 00:33:32.940
public appearance like that. I am wearing a mask. It's like 2 2 in 1 because it also triggers everyone
447
00:33:33.320 --> 00:33:35.500
that's against max mask mandates.
448
00:33:36.245 --> 00:33:38.184
But couldn't you also just have, like,
449
00:33:39.845 --> 00:33:46.940
like, rock star reincarnates and then dies again? You could just, like, have like, the second coming of rock star or the third coming of rock star.
450
00:33:49.400 --> 00:33:51.900
Well, maybe. Yeah. Maybe. Because
451
00:33:53.625 --> 00:34:06.780
we were I I was mentioning funeral also in the context of, like, how do you slow down that information velocity and and like dying is definitely one of the ways which I would recommend, but then also it does free you up.
452
00:34:07.320 --> 00:34:07.560
And,
453
00:34:08.565 --> 00:34:11.465
I always talk about like, okay, rockstar dev.
454
00:34:12.245 --> 00:34:20.029
And, man, I've I've had people from, like, Silicon Valley companies. Like, they're coming on a call with me, and then they will be like, ah, rock star.
455
00:34:21.210 --> 00:34:21.710
But
456
00:34:22.010 --> 00:34:27.695
it gives you opportunity to, like, tweak your identity because look at my NIM, look at your NIM.
457
00:34:27.995 --> 00:34:29.615
Like, yours is so much better.
458
00:34:29.995 --> 00:34:30.495
So
459
00:34:30.875 --> 00:34:32.870
one of the things that when I'm
460
00:34:33.270 --> 00:34:37.850
experimenting with NIMs down the road is, like, I I'm going to go with something that can
461
00:34:38.230 --> 00:34:40.730
pass by for for, like, a real name.
462
00:34:42.705 --> 00:34:44.085
Yeah. It always works better.
463
00:34:45.185 --> 00:34:46.945
It's like, yeah, people are like,
464
00:34:47.665 --> 00:34:49.745
that's the real name. I was like, no, it's not. So
465
00:34:50.480 --> 00:34:50.980
I,
466
00:34:51.680 --> 00:34:54.820
so, I mean, one of the when you mentioned podcasts,
467
00:34:57.040 --> 00:35:01.825
I mean, one of the reasons I launched dispatch was to get more exposure to NIMs.
468
00:35:02.925 --> 00:35:05.905
It is a, you know, voice only show, no video,
469
00:35:06.260 --> 00:35:08.839
so it's more NIM friendly in in that respect.
470
00:35:10.740 --> 00:35:17.365
There is some risk of of of doxing your voice. Like, I mean, if you if you come on the, you know, Citadel dispatch
471
00:35:18.145 --> 00:35:19.444
78 or something,
472
00:35:20.224 --> 00:35:24.565
under a different NIM, like, I think it'll be pretty fucking obvious to people that it's you.
473
00:35:25.130 --> 00:35:26.990
So some NIMs, like, 6102,
474
00:35:28.089 --> 00:35:32.109
I see someone in the comments was asking about where to get burner numbers. Silent.link
475
00:35:32.490 --> 00:35:33.375
is a really
476
00:35:33.695 --> 00:35:36.515
good option that works really well that's Bitcoin only,
477
00:35:36.895 --> 00:35:38.195
doesn't take other identification
478
00:35:38.495 --> 00:35:38.995
information.
479
00:35:39.375 --> 00:35:44.220
I asked the lead dev of that to come on. He was like, I don't wanna dox my voice.
480
00:35:45.400 --> 00:35:46.860
The lead dev of cypherpunkpay.org,
481
00:35:49.640 --> 00:35:52.795
didn't wanna come on for the same reasons, But that's also why,
482
00:35:53.815 --> 00:35:55.675
I take a lot of pride in being,
483
00:35:56.695 --> 00:36:00.955
the only Live Bitcoin show with a chat that's streamed directly into,
484
00:36:01.880 --> 00:36:03.020
all of our streams
485
00:36:03.480 --> 00:36:06.540
and archived forever because it means that people can participate,
486
00:36:08.040 --> 00:36:08.860
through text,
487
00:36:09.400 --> 00:36:11.424
through the live chat. So 6102
488
00:36:11.724 --> 00:36:14.145
used to participate a lot before he
489
00:36:15.805 --> 00:36:17.505
had his digital death.
490
00:36:19.190 --> 00:36:28.410
Maybe he's still participating under a different NIM, but, that that was one of the main reasons why I started dispatch and why dispatch is set up the way it is set up.
491
00:36:28.885 --> 00:36:33.065
Conferences is is a whole different thing. I mean, I I think there is a very big,
492
00:36:36.260 --> 00:36:39.320
there's a you know, if if you care about privacy,
493
00:36:39.620 --> 00:36:45.240
it's really hard to do in person events, large in person events, period. Gigi has kind of figured it out
494
00:36:45.815 --> 00:36:48.035
to a degree with the green suit,
495
00:36:48.455 --> 00:36:55.320
but it's just everything has trade offs. Right? So you have to assess those risks, and you have to decide what you wanna do. I mean, I do think
496
00:36:55.960 --> 00:36:59.900
meeting up in person is extremely powerful. I mean, we met in person,
497
00:37:00.920 --> 00:37:04.615
what feels like a decade ago, but it was, like, 3 years ago, I think,
498
00:37:06.855 --> 00:37:16.799
And, you know, that was a you know, I had a great time with you, and I got to know you much better as a person, and we got to have conversations at pubs at 3 in the morning that you'll never have online.
499
00:37:17.500 --> 00:37:26.105
I think you can get a lot of that out of local meetups. That's why I'm big supporter of local meetups, and I think local meetups should have no video and no photo policies,
500
00:37:26.885 --> 00:37:31.030
or at least some of them, the ones that I support, I prefer that they do.
501
00:37:32.390 --> 00:37:39.210
So that's, like, a nice middle ground, I would say. And, I mean, you don't show up as, you know, don't, like, walk up to someone and be, like, this is my NIM,
502
00:37:41.625 --> 00:37:45.484
because that kinda defeats the purpose a little bit. But if you don't do that, they'll have no idea.
503
00:37:47.319 --> 00:37:49.500
Yeah. But there is a beauty of
504
00:37:50.359 --> 00:37:51.420
that selectively
505
00:37:51.799 --> 00:37:53.660
revealing yourself. Good. Right?
506
00:37:54.119 --> 00:38:07.940
Yeah. It's I love these people introduce me. Like, they're, like, Matt, like, huge fan. Like, I'm Paul, like, blah blah blah, and I just, like, oh, like, great to meet you. Blah blah blah. And then, like, they dropped their name. I was, like, oh, shit, dude. Look, fantastic to fucking finally meet you.
507
00:38:08.560 --> 00:38:10.260
I was like, you should've led with that.
508
00:38:11.120 --> 00:38:15.780
It's like, yeah. You're glad to meet me. I'm, like, glad to meet you, man. It's
509
00:38:16.625 --> 00:38:17.765
it's beautiful.
510
00:38:20.385 --> 00:38:25.365
And you were saying such a great things about, the setup for Citadel dispatch and
511
00:38:25.849 --> 00:38:29.390
their their their I'm is a problem. Look at my setup.
512
00:38:30.010 --> 00:38:30.910
Like I I'm
513
00:38:31.290 --> 00:38:34.595
you set this up for voice only, and I have such a beautiful camera and
514
00:38:44.130 --> 00:38:45.750
Rockstar has his iconic,
515
00:38:46.770 --> 00:38:48.150
money burning background
516
00:38:48.450 --> 00:38:52.630
with a silhouette of his face and body, so you can't actually see him.
517
00:38:53.265 --> 00:38:59.685
So you actually have figured out a hack to the shows that that require video. I mean, most shows nowadays, I feel like require video,
518
00:39:01.120 --> 00:39:03.060
But on dispatch, you're the exception.
519
00:39:04.960 --> 00:39:07.540
Yeah. And then it gets into the whole
520
00:39:08.184 --> 00:39:09.224
how do you,
521
00:39:09.625 --> 00:39:12.285
build reputation? Because it's all about that.
522
00:39:12.825 --> 00:39:13.385
Right. And,
523
00:39:14.905 --> 00:39:15.405
kinda
524
00:39:16.570 --> 00:39:17.070
convention,
525
00:39:17.530 --> 00:39:21.630
normie convention is that that reputation involves a
526
00:39:22.250 --> 00:39:23.470
government issued
527
00:39:24.385 --> 00:39:28.005
ID, first name, last name, your appearance, your,
528
00:39:28.385 --> 00:39:28.625
and,
529
00:39:29.424 --> 00:39:29.924
I
530
00:39:30.224 --> 00:39:31.365
very much look
531
00:39:32.380 --> 00:39:34.480
toward that being changed because,
532
00:39:35.180 --> 00:39:39.920
hey, if I, if I gave my first name, last name, it wouldn't mean anything to
533
00:39:41.115 --> 00:39:42.815
tons of people now.
534
00:39:43.275 --> 00:39:46.494
Like they know me by, by this digital identity
535
00:39:46.795 --> 00:39:49.295
and my reputation is, is bound to that.
536
00:39:50.300 --> 00:39:54.080
So it is about figuring out that reputation building
537
00:39:55.420 --> 00:39:57.840
and, and kind of tweaking the existing
538
00:39:58.674 --> 00:40:03.654
systems and events like Bitcoin conference that's coming up to also be
539
00:40:04.115 --> 00:40:13.569
friendly in that regard because we we will need it in in the future. And then there there is also also a challenge of different mediums. Some people are better at
540
00:40:13.950 --> 00:40:18.595
presenting on stage. Some people are better at podcasts. Some people are better at writing.
541
00:40:19.055 --> 00:40:19.555
But
542
00:40:20.175 --> 00:40:22.115
the the more we can facilitate
543
00:40:22.575 --> 00:40:23.395
these different
544
00:40:23.940 --> 00:40:25.720
methods of building reputation
545
00:40:27.700 --> 00:40:28.520
in the
546
00:40:28.859 --> 00:40:29.359
the
547
00:40:29.700 --> 00:40:30.680
the the more people
548
00:40:30.980 --> 00:40:32.680
we will be able to leverage
549
00:40:32.980 --> 00:40:33.480
into,
550
00:40:34.245 --> 00:40:36.105
you know, creating better future
551
00:40:36.485 --> 00:40:36.985
because
552
00:40:38.565 --> 00:40:40.665
so many people are opting out
553
00:40:41.039 --> 00:40:43.859
out of existing systems because they're inherently
554
00:40:45.759 --> 00:40:46.259
stupid.
555
00:40:47.440 --> 00:40:50.660
You know, like you need to submit a credit
556
00:40:52.305 --> 00:41:07.210
credit score to, like, get a job and and BS like that, man. It's ridiculous. I saw I saw someone on Twitter who was complaining that they applied to a job, and they did, like, a they made him hand over, like, social media handles, and they did, like, social media check.
557
00:41:07.895 --> 00:41:09.175
I mean, you see, obviously,
558
00:41:09.815 --> 00:41:14.795
most freaks have probably tried to rent an apartment, and they asked you, like, your whole fucking life to rent an apartment.
559
00:41:17.480 --> 00:41:23.020
Like, all these and and there's so many different things where, like, you can't even it's very difficult to live a normal life
560
00:41:24.655 --> 00:41:30.515
without handling, you know, handing this this personal identifiable information everywhere you go.
561
00:41:31.589 --> 00:41:38.970
Even things as, you know, like the driver's license process, or if you wanna register to vote or something, like, privacy is the last thing,
562
00:41:39.795 --> 00:41:44.535
that those policies take in mind, and and in fact, they tend to do the exact opposite.
563
00:41:44.915 --> 00:41:48.695
Traveling nowadays, you know, we talk about travel restrictions getting worse.
564
00:41:50.180 --> 00:41:53.320
Well, it's, like, pretty much impossible to, you know,
565
00:41:53.620 --> 00:41:56.680
travel by plane right now without just pulling your pants down
566
00:41:57.935 --> 00:41:59.795
and giving them absolutely everything,
567
00:42:00.095 --> 00:42:01.875
especially if you're crossing a border.
568
00:42:03.775 --> 00:42:06.420
It's a fucking mess, but I will say on one positive
569
00:42:08.420 --> 00:42:10.920
note that I've noticed, just to fall onto the kids these days memes,
570
00:42:12.420 --> 00:42:21.255
I don't know if you've noticed this because it's I mean, I don't I don't think it's really a a topic that neither of us really follow deeply, but what I've noticed is
571
00:42:23.590 --> 00:42:24.090
esports
572
00:42:24.870 --> 00:42:30.730
esports and drone racing, which is what a lot of kids do now. It's like a big it's it's
573
00:42:31.030 --> 00:42:32.250
really growing industry.
574
00:42:32.885 --> 00:42:35.865
Like, the best players in the world of both of those
575
00:42:36.484 --> 00:42:39.305
tend to be NIMs. They default to NIMs.
576
00:42:40.700 --> 00:42:44.320
Now once they've become, like, top 10 in the world, they're on, like, ESPN
577
00:42:44.620 --> 00:42:45.440
7 and
578
00:42:45.820 --> 00:42:47.280
their face is on screen.
579
00:42:47.855 --> 00:42:54.275
But up until that point, they're nims, and when they announce them, they're like, this guy just won the championship. They don't say, like,
580
00:42:54.789 --> 00:42:57.690
you know, Paul Jones. They say, you
581
00:42:58.309 --> 00:43:01.049
know, rabid tiger or whatever his name is.
582
00:43:02.915 --> 00:43:03.815
On ESPN
583
00:43:04.115 --> 00:43:16.990
7. Yeah. Yeah. You get, like, docs for ESPN 7, man. That's how we have fallen. One day one day, you know, as esports grows, they'll get to, you know, ESPN 2 and then maybe ESPN 1 eventually.
584
00:43:18.650 --> 00:43:19.150
Yeah.
585
00:43:20.945 --> 00:43:22.405
Yeah. Because to
586
00:43:22.785 --> 00:43:23.285
me,
587
00:43:23.585 --> 00:43:27.125
that will be the also the measure of quality of the world,
588
00:43:27.665 --> 00:43:32.650
and well, not the world. Well, specific environment with which we are talking about.
589
00:43:33.270 --> 00:43:33.770
Because,
590
00:43:34.870 --> 00:43:37.210
I'm telling you, I I so long for
591
00:43:37.675 --> 00:43:40.655
America of nineties. I wish I was here back then
592
00:43:41.035 --> 00:43:41.535
because
593
00:43:44.610 --> 00:43:46.630
it it's just like all these
594
00:43:46.930 --> 00:43:47.430
additional
595
00:43:47.730 --> 00:43:49.750
things that were added
596
00:43:50.050 --> 00:43:57.625
after 911 and, like, extra check, extra check, extra check. Combination of, like, 911 and just, like, the digitization
597
00:43:57.925 --> 00:43:58.985
of the world. Right?
598
00:44:00.405 --> 00:44:01.705
And COVID 911.
599
00:44:02.330 --> 00:44:07.470
Yeah. Yeah. And then COVID COVID ex extenuated it or increased it.
600
00:44:08.090 --> 00:44:12.030
COVID, I mean, none of it has to be a lot of it, like, a lot of it isn't
601
00:44:13.115 --> 00:44:17.214
necessarily just government policies. Right? Like, so so you have
602
00:44:17.835 --> 00:44:18.655
people voluntarily
603
00:44:21.350 --> 00:44:22.250
people voluntarily
604
00:44:22.550 --> 00:44:34.395
hand out all this information for convenience. Right? It's a trade off between privacy and convenience. They walk around with phones that are tracking them. They have wiretaps in their house. They're sending their DNA out to services so they can see,
605
00:44:34.935 --> 00:44:37.675
a nice pie chart of of where they come from.
606
00:44:39.119 --> 00:44:43.700
And and we have this confluence of things where governments have always tried to track,
607
00:44:45.040 --> 00:44:45.859
their subjects.
608
00:44:46.885 --> 00:44:54.665
They might call you citizens, but they've always tried to track their subjects because surveillance gives you the ultimate control. Knowing things about people gives you the ultimate control.
609
00:44:55.000 --> 00:44:57.099
But on top of that now, we have companies
610
00:44:57.960 --> 00:45:02.220
so on the on the government side, you know, we're we're we're, like,
611
00:45:02.615 --> 00:45:06.234
essentially treated like data slaves, where they're just trying to
612
00:45:07.095 --> 00:45:08.954
take as much information as possible,
613
00:45:09.890 --> 00:45:12.550
think what we're thinking, use it against us,
614
00:45:13.330 --> 00:45:22.945
constantly be a step ahead, and corral us. And then on the corporate side, we're like cattle or crops. They're like harvesting our data for monetization.
615
00:45:23.965 --> 00:45:30.600
They make tons of money off of us. We're like a re we're a resource to them. We're a resource that can be harvested, our private information.
616
00:45:31.140 --> 00:45:33.160
And then governments use that
617
00:45:34.714 --> 00:45:35.214
monetization
618
00:45:35.515 --> 00:45:47.819
scheme, all that data that the comp the companies are getting, and they it amplifies everything. It's just, you know, massive circular feedback loop. And we didn't, you know, even without 911 or whatever, like, we didn't have that,
619
00:45:49.880 --> 00:45:53.025
it it just it wasn't there. That that mechanism,
620
00:45:53.725 --> 00:45:56.945
that whole corporate infrastructure of tracking people,
621
00:45:58.045 --> 00:46:01.265
through digital means just didn't really exist yet.
622
00:46:03.090 --> 00:46:05.270
And it was developed so quickly.
623
00:46:05.810 --> 00:46:07.650
Yeah. That's where I think a lot of your
624
00:46:08.290 --> 00:46:12.184
how do you say the conversation will turn solemn. Right?
625
00:46:14.164 --> 00:46:17.385
That's where I think, like, a lot of your sadness is coming
626
00:46:18.085 --> 00:46:22.480
through because as a critical thinker, you see all of this as you're like cattle.
627
00:46:22.859 --> 00:46:27.599
We absolutely are information cattle. As individuals, we like generate information
628
00:46:28.140 --> 00:46:28.800
and once
629
00:46:30.145 --> 00:46:31.525
systems and technology
630
00:46:31.985 --> 00:46:34.965
allow it, you can now start harvesting
631
00:46:35.985 --> 00:46:40.290
information from individuals and then get into advanced scenarios of
632
00:46:40.590 --> 00:46:42.370
predicting what will happen,
633
00:46:42.910 --> 00:46:44.050
controlling individuals.
634
00:46:46.685 --> 00:46:48.625
As as the latest meme says, yeah, MPCs.
635
00:46:49.085 --> 00:46:50.225
It is literally
636
00:46:50.605 --> 00:46:51.105
functioning
637
00:46:51.405 --> 00:46:55.345
now to the point where you don't even need to do too much preparation.
638
00:46:55.870 --> 00:46:57.650
You just start new wave
639
00:46:58.030 --> 00:46:59.650
of media and news articles,
640
00:47:00.030 --> 00:47:00.530
and
641
00:47:00.990 --> 00:47:01.730
it's like you
642
00:47:02.350 --> 00:47:05.895
download like, upload firmware into millions of people
643
00:47:06.275 --> 00:47:08.775
and get them to react in a certain way.
644
00:47:09.555 --> 00:47:11.575
I, one of your favorite tweets,
645
00:47:12.035 --> 00:47:18.960
that you tweeted out, like, I loved it. It was like, some of you will trust the government until your pronouns are was were.
646
00:47:20.300 --> 00:47:20.800
So
647
00:47:21.579 --> 00:47:22.079
so
648
00:47:23.215 --> 00:47:32.595
it it is absolutely like that. And it's it's not only government because at least with government, you can organize some kind of movement, like get them out of the office or
649
00:47:32.960 --> 00:47:34.900
get media on your end. It's about
650
00:47:35.200 --> 00:47:35.700
corporation.
651
00:47:36.160 --> 00:47:36.980
It's about
652
00:47:37.520 --> 00:47:38.099
that cyberpunk
653
00:47:38.400 --> 00:47:40.080
future, which is, you know,
654
00:47:40.560 --> 00:47:45.705
high technology, low standard of living, which is we're what we are seeing more and more. And
655
00:47:48.000 --> 00:47:54.180
the Yeah. The the best part about that tweet is one of the best parts about Twitter is that there was a shit ton of people
656
00:47:54.640 --> 00:47:58.225
in the comments below letting me know that was, were, is, aren't pronouns.
657
00:47:59.005 --> 00:47:59.505
Oh,
658
00:48:00.445 --> 00:48:05.025
well, what do you you didn't use the opportunity to to say, like, they're mispronoun?
659
00:48:05.910 --> 00:48:13.369
Yep. I mean, no. It I mean, they were grammatically correct. They're they are not pronouns. It was just, No. Yes. They they are. They are my pronouns.
660
00:48:14.935 --> 00:48:15.255
The
661
00:48:15.975 --> 00:48:21.995
so we have someone in the comments mentioning then don't use Twitter, and I do agree that Twitter is a surveillance
662
00:48:22.450 --> 00:48:24.150
platform. I agree that it's a
663
00:48:24.930 --> 00:48:26.950
a tool used to monetize people,
664
00:48:27.730 --> 00:48:33.515
and to a degree control people. And I I would say that maybe in the beginning, it wasn't as much used for control.
665
00:48:35.815 --> 00:48:40.270
You know, I like to believe that the original ideas were was to, you know,
666
00:48:40.650 --> 00:48:43.310
make information more open and communication more open.
667
00:48:44.250 --> 00:48:46.430
It is to me, it's a balancing act.
668
00:48:46.744 --> 00:48:52.125
I use Twitter pretty much only professionally. I only use it for Bitcoin things,
669
00:48:53.144 --> 00:48:56.280
and I try and limit my usage as much as possible. Me, personally,
670
00:49:03.240 --> 00:49:03.685
a
671
00:49:04.085 --> 00:49:05.785
Twitter is the last man standing.
672
00:49:06.245 --> 00:49:10.665
I could give 2 shits about all the Twitter clones that are replacing it. I won't even sign up for Mastodon.
673
00:49:11.890 --> 00:49:15.670
I'm at the point where and I'm completely shadowbanned on Twitter now.
674
00:49:16.930 --> 00:49:17.170
So
675
00:49:17.890 --> 00:49:18.790
Not completely.
676
00:49:19.810 --> 00:49:20.470
I mean,
677
00:49:20.925 --> 00:49:22.705
they had me down pretty brutally.
678
00:49:23.245 --> 00:49:26.525
I had to like, other people complain about being shadowbanned, but,
679
00:49:27.880 --> 00:49:32.380
you know No. You're in the bubble now. Break my they break my tweet threads and shit.
680
00:49:34.440 --> 00:49:36.059
So, like, I'm I'm I'm
681
00:49:36.755 --> 00:49:38.615
pretty close to being done with it.
682
00:49:39.474 --> 00:49:41.015
It's just a question of
683
00:49:41.635 --> 00:49:42.135
of
684
00:49:42.755 --> 00:49:44.694
of of basically, you know, bootstrapping
685
00:49:45.075 --> 00:49:46.369
dispatch, dispatch, bootstrapping
686
00:49:46.990 --> 00:49:48.049
the Citadel chat,
687
00:49:49.230 --> 00:49:53.970
having a tribe that you can communicate with and discuss things with and build things with,
688
00:49:55.174 --> 00:49:59.674
so that you can be relatively immune and you can actually opt out. Like, I will say,
689
00:50:00.214 --> 00:50:02.960
I don't even remember how many years ago I deleted my
690
00:50:03.440 --> 00:50:05.540
Instagram. It was a long fucking time ago.
691
00:50:06.000 --> 00:50:08.580
But, I mean, there was a whole set of friends
692
00:50:09.280 --> 00:50:09.940
and family
693
00:50:10.240 --> 00:50:10.980
that just
694
00:50:11.520 --> 00:50:12.020
disappeared.
695
00:50:12.585 --> 00:50:16.365
They were just they are not in my life anymore when I left that platform,
696
00:50:18.665 --> 00:50:19.565
and that was
697
00:50:19.890 --> 00:50:21.430
a pretty rash decision.
698
00:50:22.210 --> 00:50:28.535
Like, that was just a woke up one morning. I was like, this is all getting deleted. I was like, who the what the fuck am I doing?
699
00:50:29.174 --> 00:50:32.635
So with Twitter, I'm just being a little bit more calculated about it,
700
00:50:33.015 --> 00:50:37.355
but, fortunately, I feel very grateful that I do feel like I found my tribe. I do feel like,
701
00:50:38.760 --> 00:50:40.540
I could get banned from Twitter tomorrow,
702
00:50:40.840 --> 00:50:46.380
and I could still have the discussions I wanna have. I could still support the projects I wanna support. I could still
703
00:50:47.224 --> 00:50:48.445
build things, and
704
00:50:49.145 --> 00:50:57.720
I I think that's a very rewarding thing when when you realize that that decentralized platforms can't necessarily cut you off and cancel you. They can cut you off from themselves,
705
00:50:58.340 --> 00:51:00.200
from their platform, but they can't,
706
00:51:03.060 --> 00:51:03.800
they can't
707
00:51:04.404 --> 00:51:06.105
significantly disrupt your life.
708
00:51:07.924 --> 00:51:08.904
Yeah. Because
709
00:51:09.444 --> 00:51:11.065
this world would have been
710
00:51:11.800 --> 00:51:13.340
much less rich
711
00:51:13.960 --> 00:51:20.715
if you follow through with your cutting off social media. Like you and me will never met probably.
712
00:51:21.335 --> 00:51:21.835
I,
713
00:51:22.135 --> 00:51:27.730
one of my hobbies is going back to Matt Adele tweets from like 2016,
714
00:51:28.109 --> 00:51:33.329
20 7. Like, I don't know how far back you go, but I love reading your tweets when it's like 0 likes.
715
00:51:34.035 --> 00:51:35.815
And you're advocating for something,
716
00:51:36.755 --> 00:51:37.255
which
717
00:51:37.635 --> 00:51:38.375
in retrospect
718
00:51:38.675 --> 00:51:40.375
makes so much sense, but
719
00:51:40.675 --> 00:51:44.640
it is like, that's the balancing act you you're talking about.
720
00:51:46.300 --> 00:51:46.700
I,
721
00:51:47.420 --> 00:51:48.640
last few years,
722
00:51:50.460 --> 00:51:56.224
unfolded for me the way they did, because I created a Twitter account to
723
00:51:56.605 --> 00:51:57.665
mostly to retweet,
724
00:51:58.125 --> 00:52:02.385
Nicholas's tweets when when I joined BTC based server team.
725
00:52:02.880 --> 00:52:04.820
But from there, as my
726
00:52:05.920 --> 00:52:06.420
persona,
727
00:52:06.960 --> 00:52:12.425
current persona grew, like, it it opened so many doors. I mean, I wouldn't be in strike today if
728
00:52:13.305 --> 00:52:13.965
I wasn't
729
00:52:14.425 --> 00:52:15.645
rockstar developer,
730
00:52:15.945 --> 00:52:16.505
you know,
731
00:52:16.985 --> 00:52:17.725
on, on Twitter.
732
00:52:18.425 --> 00:52:18.925
So
733
00:52:19.880 --> 00:52:22.220
I would advise everyone to,
734
00:52:22.680 --> 00:52:23.180
to,
735
00:52:24.680 --> 00:52:28.300
absolutely be conscious on, on, you know, privacy
736
00:52:29.434 --> 00:52:29.934
and
737
00:52:31.115 --> 00:52:43.670
like not being the information cattle. If you can turn the situation around and make that platform be be a cattle of yours, absolutely do it. And if you see you are losing the battle and, and you're,
738
00:52:44.450 --> 00:52:45.350
you, you're
739
00:52:45.875 --> 00:52:48.055
giving more than you're getting,
740
00:52:49.555 --> 00:52:51.734
then, yeah, like, get get out.
741
00:52:52.194 --> 00:52:55.494
I mean, I you you mentioned cyberpunks. Right? And and
742
00:52:55.940 --> 00:53:02.120
and Eric Hughes in the cyberpunk manifesto, like, he specifically says, like, privacy is not secrecy.
743
00:53:02.924 --> 00:53:08.065
Privacy is the ability to selectively reveal yourself to the world and choose what you reveal. Right?
744
00:53:08.444 --> 00:53:08.944
And
745
00:53:09.644 --> 00:53:18.059
when you start to talk about sovereignty, when you start to talk about privacy, it is this balancing act. It's a balancing act of trade offs. It's a balancing act of constantly
746
00:53:20.095 --> 00:53:22.595
being aware of your surroundings and your adversaries
747
00:53:23.695 --> 00:53:27.315
and and what information is being collected about you and used against you.
748
00:53:27.775 --> 00:53:28.755
And it's important
749
00:53:29.290 --> 00:53:31.390
for people to realize this because
750
00:53:32.010 --> 00:53:32.510
ultimately,
751
00:53:32.970 --> 00:53:34.750
especially in the privacy community,
752
00:53:35.290 --> 00:53:38.109
and I would say even in the sovereignty community,
753
00:53:39.105 --> 00:53:40.085
there's a
754
00:53:41.025 --> 00:53:50.270
there's a lack of of open public discussion about it. And why is that? That's because if someone really truly values their privacy, this is the dichotomy,
755
00:53:51.050 --> 00:53:57.154
they're not gonna participate in those platforms. They're not gonna talk about it. You don't see influencers talking about privacy.
756
00:53:57.694 --> 00:53:59.154
People that care about privacy
757
00:53:59.454 --> 00:54:05.875
and sovereignty are living on their own land, not, you know, with their tribe, not talking to anybody publicly about it.
758
00:54:07.380 --> 00:54:18.755
You talked about, you know, there is an inherent issue with NIMS. This is human psychology. This fact the fact of the matter is that people wanna see faces. They wanna see names. They wanna feel like they can relate to someone.
759
00:54:20.175 --> 00:54:28.450
So in in a lot of ways, it is very much an uphill battle, and I I I always knew this was the case. I've lived it as the case,
760
00:54:29.710 --> 00:54:35.945
and I kind of stumbled into doxing my face and something that I always regretted doing. I go back and forth because I
761
00:54:36.724 --> 00:54:38.505
I feel like it has made a difference,
762
00:54:38.805 --> 00:54:39.305
but
763
00:54:39.640 --> 00:54:43.260
I also, you know, regret doxing my face because my face is forever.
764
00:54:43.640 --> 00:54:45.660
Names can be changed. Faces can't,
765
00:54:46.835 --> 00:54:50.295
or maybe they can in the future, but it sounds expensive, and I like my face.
766
00:54:51.955 --> 00:54:55.255
But I once I did stumble into that,
767
00:54:55.780 --> 00:55:01.400
I made it a mission to try and elevate NIMS because I think that people that are in public positions
768
00:55:02.420 --> 00:55:03.240
have a unique
769
00:55:04.494 --> 00:55:04.994
unique
770
00:55:05.295 --> 00:55:13.619
potential, unique ability to elevate NIMs that they that they notice have a good reputation, that they notice are building good things. People like 6102,
771
00:55:14.079 --> 00:55:16.259
people like Diverter. We have Diverter in the comments.
772
00:55:17.039 --> 00:55:17.779
Econo Alchemist,
773
00:55:19.625 --> 00:55:25.005
you know, all of these guys, like, they're they're doing good work, open arms, you know,
774
00:55:26.105 --> 00:55:36.700
Chris Belcher. Like, they're they're they're doing good work, and they need to be amplified, and other people aren't amplifying it. So if you're already in that position, if you already have a public platform, if you already have a semi public platform,
775
00:55:37.225 --> 00:55:41.165
like, helping and supporting these people that are working really hard behind the scenes
776
00:55:43.385 --> 00:55:51.460
is extremely actionable, and I I would I I like to think extremely effective. And and one of the things I've been noticing, just to bring it back fully around,
777
00:55:52.640 --> 00:55:59.015
is this is something, like I said, that I've lived through, that I've seen it happening, that I expected it to unfold,
778
00:55:59.395 --> 00:56:01.575
but it really does feel like as
779
00:56:02.190 --> 00:56:03.970
Bitcoin is becoming more mainstream,
780
00:56:05.230 --> 00:56:07.730
the voices of privacy and sovereignty
781
00:56:08.270 --> 00:56:11.170
are going to continuously get drowned out.
782
00:56:11.855 --> 00:56:14.115
And we're basically in a situation where
783
00:56:15.855 --> 00:56:18.194
the fundamentals of Bitcoin are under attack.
784
00:56:19.214 --> 00:56:19.714
And
785
00:56:20.710 --> 00:56:26.570
if you just do a cursory glance at Bitcoin Twitter or something, it looks like everything is rosy and great
786
00:56:27.030 --> 00:56:31.005
because the influencers just like number go up and everything's gonna be fine,
787
00:56:32.585 --> 00:56:45.730
because that's what gets you engagement. What gets you engagement is not telling people that they should practice personal responsibility or they shouldn't trust you or they should do their own research or they should use their own shit. What gets you engagement is is getting cattle to
788
00:56:46.185 --> 00:56:47.005
to pretty
789
00:56:47.385 --> 00:56:56.600
much trust you completely and do everything you say and rely on you and tell them that they're completely absolved to personal responsibility and everything will be okay.
790
00:57:00.180 --> 00:57:04.040
Absolutely, man. It's that paradox of needing to be a public
791
00:57:04.405 --> 00:57:06.985
persona to broadcast information privacy.
792
00:57:08.245 --> 00:57:08.905
And then
793
00:57:09.525 --> 00:57:13.545
starting to understand that, especially with mainstream conditioning of people
794
00:57:14.569 --> 00:57:17.069
not to, okay. You know, I already
795
00:57:17.530 --> 00:57:22.829
scanned my idea, uploaded it to open a Facebook account. Like, why does it matter? Say
796
00:57:23.165 --> 00:57:23.665
some
797
00:57:24.205 --> 00:57:25.025
call. So
798
00:57:26.845 --> 00:57:28.225
but I don't know. I
799
00:57:28.845 --> 00:57:35.440
especially when talking with you and and then talking with people who heard me talking with you,
800
00:57:36.380 --> 00:57:37.920
we are we are inspiring
801
00:57:38.619 --> 00:57:39.680
others. And,
802
00:57:40.505 --> 00:57:45.965
maybe it's it's me being in strike as VP of engineering and and talking with so many engineers
803
00:57:46.905 --> 00:57:48.605
that want to switch from
804
00:57:49.740 --> 00:57:56.160
soul crushing jobs without any meaning at, you know, big tech companies to something that has meaning. Like,
805
00:57:56.895 --> 00:57:59.235
I am optimistic for the future and,
806
00:58:01.375 --> 00:58:02.035
you know,
807
00:58:02.495 --> 00:58:05.715
we, you just accept, you will never be
808
00:58:06.480 --> 00:58:07.539
the most popular,
809
00:58:08.480 --> 00:58:09.539
the most entertaining,
810
00:58:09.839 --> 00:58:13.539
but, you know, that's that's not the point. The point is
811
00:58:14.079 --> 00:58:16.020
you pick this cross of
812
00:58:16.495 --> 00:58:21.875
actually making a difference and, you know, being actionable Bitcoin discussion. So,
813
00:58:22.335 --> 00:58:22.995
you know,
814
00:58:23.910 --> 00:58:28.890
we will not talk about number go up. We'll talk that everyone should read Katan's
815
00:58:29.670 --> 00:58:32.730
article on creating digital identity and
816
00:58:33.255 --> 00:58:35.355
do it after this call. And
817
00:58:35.815 --> 00:58:38.075
Yeah. Catan's blog is great. What is that? K3ton.com?
818
00:58:39.815 --> 00:58:41.755
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And
819
00:58:43.319 --> 00:58:44.059
this is
820
00:58:44.839 --> 00:58:48.220
the article I'm talking about, like, starting a new digital identity.
821
00:58:48.599 --> 00:58:58.955
I mean, it's funny you keep bringing up actionable Bitcoin discussion, because I feel like this is gonna be one of the least actionable episodes. I'm just shooting the shit with my boy. No. I don't know. This will be the most actionable
822
00:58:59.809 --> 00:59:02.150
episode. Believe me, like, I'm sending you
823
00:59:03.410 --> 00:59:03.890
those,
824
00:59:04.609 --> 00:59:09.545
messages. It's like people telling me, hey. Tell Matt, I've listened to you 2 talk
825
00:59:10.005 --> 00:59:10.505
because,
826
00:59:11.765 --> 00:59:15.785
people can feel the energy between us, Matt, and especially between
827
00:59:17.230 --> 00:59:28.474
you and other people, because in Bitcoin, you you're one of the most loved people. And it's just, I'm telling you, you're too too much of a critical thinker, and then you point that criticism toward yourself.
828
00:59:29.415 --> 00:59:36.690
Get out, man. You're you're you're doing a good job. You just maybe need yeah. You maybe need a funeral as well and new NIM
829
00:59:37.230 --> 00:59:40.770
and start over. Yeah. I mean, I have concurrent NIMs.
830
00:59:41.405 --> 00:59:44.385
There's the question is if if this gets
831
00:59:46.605 --> 00:59:49.905
if if the I like dispatch. I like rapid recap,
832
00:59:51.710 --> 00:59:55.170
but it's it's not an easy one to throw away.
833
00:59:58.555 --> 01:00:01.295
But, yeah, that's another I mean, that's an important point though.
834
01:00:03.035 --> 01:00:04.095
I have many identities.
835
01:00:05.355 --> 01:00:09.010
That's a very easy step. That's a lot easier than
836
01:00:09.550 --> 01:00:11.730
getting rid of 1 and starting a new one.
837
01:00:13.390 --> 01:00:16.130
It's a very good first step is to have multiple.
838
01:00:18.495 --> 01:00:21.315
So, I mean, if we're if we if we wanna talk about
839
01:00:23.455 --> 01:00:28.279
No. Let's let's talk about dying because when you were mentioning in previous segment about,
840
01:00:28.680 --> 01:00:31.079
difference between secrecy and privacy and,
841
01:00:32.519 --> 01:00:33.765
those people that
842
01:00:34.164 --> 01:00:37.305
are individuals that are really hardcore about privacy.
843
01:00:39.204 --> 01:00:45.250
It's always a good question. If you are hardcore about privacy or secrecy, like you can never
844
01:00:46.109 --> 01:00:49.410
test your privacy and your setup too much.
845
01:00:50.775 --> 01:01:00.395
You know, like, oh, you know, me, your private will, will, how, how private are you? How fast can your name and identity be doxed?
846
01:01:01.480 --> 01:01:04.620
Like, you should always test that every few months
847
01:01:05.640 --> 01:01:06.140
and
848
01:01:06.440 --> 01:01:08.860
then start that process of in iteration,
849
01:01:10.675 --> 01:01:11.895
to, you know,
850
01:01:12.195 --> 01:01:13.415
kill the old name,
851
01:01:13.875 --> 01:01:16.695
get a new one, and, and see what sticks.
852
01:01:16.995 --> 01:01:18.695
What is really you
853
01:01:19.070 --> 01:01:19.570
versus
854
01:01:20.110 --> 01:01:21.090
what is
855
01:01:21.390 --> 01:01:24.770
that current identity that's popular or part of yourself?
856
01:01:25.230 --> 01:01:25.730
Because
857
01:01:27.265 --> 01:01:30.325
that that's also another thing that, that I dislike
858
01:01:31.025 --> 01:01:35.125
about the fact that only those that are most public, most vocal,
859
01:01:35.970 --> 01:01:38.549
most entertaining, like they get all the stage,
860
01:01:39.650 --> 01:01:40.150
identities
861
01:01:40.609 --> 01:01:43.589
like digital or otherwise are such a big topic.
862
01:01:44.494 --> 01:01:45.234
But the
863
01:01:45.535 --> 01:01:49.634
last decades at this point are dominated by
864
01:01:51.990 --> 01:01:56.170
shallow identity talk that doesn't go into specifics of,
865
01:01:57.350 --> 01:01:58.090
you know,
866
01:01:58.485 --> 01:02:02.905
all of us, we're not the same person, a 100% of the time. We're different people
867
01:02:03.205 --> 01:02:06.425
and we need to formalize those identities because,
868
01:02:07.170 --> 01:02:10.710
Matt at work is different than Matt at home,
869
01:02:11.090 --> 01:02:11.590
Matt,
870
01:02:12.370 --> 01:02:13.350
at the bar,
871
01:02:14.225 --> 01:02:18.885
met in this setting, like, is it more personal and Right. There's no reason to tie it all together.
872
01:02:19.745 --> 01:02:23.650
Exactly. And in in the this environment, in this
873
01:02:24.130 --> 01:02:26.309
world where information is ever faster,
874
01:02:26.609 --> 01:02:29.750
it's also like placing that burden onto you
875
01:02:30.130 --> 01:02:31.670
to be all those people.
876
01:02:32.215 --> 01:02:35.195
Like, oh, you go to work now. It's, like,
877
01:02:36.135 --> 01:02:40.555
not working 8, you know, 8 hours, but, like, 12 hours. And that's
878
01:02:41.820 --> 01:02:43.840
so many people are, like, so disconnected
879
01:02:44.380 --> 01:02:49.680
from all the different identities they're forced to be, to wear a suit, to wear a tie.
880
01:02:51.805 --> 01:02:55.025
But it's really important to to have that discussion
881
01:02:55.405 --> 01:02:56.945
in deep and meaningful way
882
01:02:57.405 --> 01:02:59.425
and then recognize how, like,
883
01:03:01.760 --> 01:03:03.620
how to build that structure
884
01:03:04.000 --> 01:03:06.020
and connections between identities
885
01:03:06.880 --> 01:03:10.580
and have it in sustainable way so that you do not go insane,
886
01:03:10.944 --> 01:03:11.444
essentially.
887
01:03:12.224 --> 01:03:12.724
100%.
888
01:03:15.025 --> 01:03:19.924
I mean and that's like a you made an also really interesting point there that in terms of privacy,
889
01:03:20.790 --> 01:03:22.390
it is it is one of those
890
01:03:22.710 --> 01:03:27.609
especially in every digital world where, you know, Barbara Streisand, the Streisand effect
891
01:03:27.990 --> 01:03:28.310
about the
892
01:03:29.109 --> 01:03:29.690
the Internet
893
01:03:30.194 --> 01:03:30.934
is forever,
894
01:03:32.115 --> 01:03:38.775
and it's hard to delete things from the Internet. It's impossible to delete things from the Bitcoin ledger, the Bitcoin blockchain,
895
01:03:41.040 --> 01:03:46.580
and you usually don't notice the privacy break until it's too late. So it is something that you kinda
896
01:03:47.145 --> 01:03:51.165
have to, like, actively be watching all the time and actively be thinking about,
897
01:03:51.625 --> 01:03:54.845
which does give, you know, additional mental cost there.
898
01:03:55.310 --> 01:03:57.810
I mean, that's just a trade off. I don't know if that's unavoidable.
899
01:03:58.830 --> 01:04:01.090
We have our we have our boy,
900
01:04:01.870 --> 01:04:02.770
Silent Link,
901
01:04:03.455 --> 01:04:13.400
in the Twitch comments. First of all, Silent Link. You know, I love your service. I don't know why you're not in the matrix chat, but I'm gonna it's a very good comment, so I'm gonna highlight it
902
01:04:13.700 --> 01:04:14.760
on on the show.
903
01:04:15.700 --> 01:04:23.575
He's saying stop saying our data is monetized. It's our behavior that is monetized, and our data is the means to manipulate it. I think that's a very good point.
904
01:04:24.595 --> 01:04:25.734
Words do matter,
905
01:04:26.450 --> 01:04:31.730
and I like your framing better than mine. So I will be using that going forward. I do appreciate it.
906
01:04:33.010 --> 01:04:35.190
It is our behavior that is being monetized,
907
01:04:35.695 --> 01:04:37.795
and our behavior is being harvested.
908
01:04:39.775 --> 01:04:42.675
So I I do appreciate that framing. I and I think,
909
01:04:43.049 --> 01:04:44.910
you know, if you wanna talk about
910
01:04:45.930 --> 01:04:47.230
why words matter,
911
01:04:47.930 --> 01:04:49.789
a perfect example is
912
01:04:51.234 --> 01:04:55.015
what we're seeing right now, which is this this attack on
913
01:04:56.355 --> 01:05:00.535
this attack on Bitcoin privacy tools, specifically collaborative Bitcoin transactions,
914
01:05:01.620 --> 01:05:03.560
the most popular being CoinJoin.
915
01:05:04.500 --> 01:05:05.000
And
916
01:05:07.620 --> 01:05:09.720
there's a separate thing that is
917
01:05:10.255 --> 01:05:12.435
mixing Bitcoin. And when you mix Bitcoin,
918
01:05:12.895 --> 01:05:14.595
you use a custodial service.
919
01:05:15.055 --> 01:05:17.315
That service takes custody of your coins
920
01:05:18.180 --> 01:05:20.119
and gives you someone else's coins.
921
01:05:20.740 --> 01:05:27.400
When you do a coin join, it's a collaborative Bitcoin send, it's a native Bitcoin transaction that has privacy best practices
922
01:05:27.925 --> 01:05:29.065
taken into account,
923
01:05:29.525 --> 01:05:31.065
that you're doing with other people,
924
01:05:31.525 --> 01:05:36.745
that no one is taking custody of your coin, you get brand new coin out the other side,
925
01:05:37.200 --> 01:05:38.820
and it breaks the probability
926
01:05:39.200 --> 01:05:48.984
analysis that is used by chain surveillance companies. And this is a distinction that I've been trying to make very clear whenever I talk about CoinJoin, whenever I talk about collaborative transactions.
927
01:05:49.925 --> 01:05:52.185
A lot of people have not been doing that,
928
01:05:53.050 --> 01:05:54.590
and the enemies of privacy
929
01:05:54.890 --> 01:05:55.390
continuously
930
01:05:55.690 --> 01:05:58.910
try to conflate the 2, and we're seeing that right now.
931
01:05:59.850 --> 01:06:01.870
There's been a bunch of articles lately.
932
01:06:03.825 --> 01:06:04.565
I did
933
01:06:05.025 --> 01:06:10.725
I did an interview with CoinDesk where there was, like, a little bit of an editorial ahead of it, and they conflated it.
934
01:06:11.840 --> 01:06:12.580
The block
935
01:06:13.360 --> 01:06:15.540
had, like, a horrible article about
936
01:06:16.000 --> 01:06:21.095
CoinJoin that they're like, I I don't even know if they did any kind of fucking research whatsoever.
937
01:06:21.635 --> 01:06:24.435
Things were conflated in it. Feet conflated it.
938
01:06:25.875 --> 01:06:27.974
And now we don't really know
939
01:06:29.030 --> 01:06:31.210
if there was any kind of real regulatory
940
01:06:31.510 --> 01:06:32.010
pressure
941
01:06:32.310 --> 01:06:32.810
on
942
01:06:33.270 --> 01:06:33.770
Wasabi
943
01:06:35.270 --> 01:06:38.170
or what the deal is. Feet released an article
944
01:06:39.974 --> 01:06:40.714
about the
945
01:06:41.895 --> 01:06:42.954
the British regulator,
946
01:06:44.934 --> 01:06:49.509
I think it's the FCA, maybe it's a different British regulator that's trying to go after CoinJoin
947
01:06:50.690 --> 01:06:55.750
services, the services that actually offer the coordination. So with CoinJoin, you can have
948
01:06:56.174 --> 01:06:59.315
collaborative transactions that are not run by a centralized coordinator.
949
01:07:00.335 --> 01:07:01.714
Join Market does this.
950
01:07:02.015 --> 01:07:13.035
Samurais has two features that do it, stonewall and stowaway. And, basically, it's just like you and one other person, you're doing the coin join. You don't have this this centralized coordinator that is coordinating
951
01:07:13.415 --> 01:07:14.795
the transaction happening.
952
01:07:15.095 --> 01:07:16.315
Now on Wasabi,
953
01:07:17.095 --> 01:07:20.660
you have a centralized coordinator. In Samurai, you have a centralized coordinator.
954
01:07:24.560 --> 01:07:25.220
And previously,
955
01:07:25.600 --> 01:07:27.140
in terms of legal precedent,
956
01:07:27.885 --> 01:07:32.065
running a mixing service, one of these centralized custodial mixing services,
957
01:07:32.845 --> 01:07:39.240
has been considered a criminal act. The users I'm pretty sure there's never been a case where users have been hit,
958
01:07:40.099 --> 01:07:43.625
with anything, but the actual operators have been hit.
959
01:07:44.985 --> 01:07:46.525
And now there's a conflation
960
01:07:46.825 --> 01:07:59.070
that the operators of a coordinator service would be hit the same way even though I don't think I'm not once I'm not a fucking lawyer, but I don't think there's any legal precedent for it. I don't think there's any laws against it. It's a message transfer service.
961
01:07:59.370 --> 01:08:04.655
But, anyway, all that said, at the end of the day, words do matter. When we're talking about these things,
962
01:08:05.195 --> 01:08:05.435
they
963
01:08:06.155 --> 01:08:08.735
you know, especially if you have a platform, they matter significantly.
964
01:08:10.240 --> 01:08:12.980
But I have to say, this whole wasabi thing, like,
965
01:08:13.520 --> 01:08:14.500
I've been critical
966
01:08:15.280 --> 01:08:17.540
of of them for a while now.
967
01:08:18.565 --> 01:08:21.145
Previously, I was probably one of their largest shills.
968
01:08:21.685 --> 01:08:24.265
I will own that, you know, years ago.
969
01:08:24.965 --> 01:08:27.650
But I did turn. We had we had,
970
01:08:28.350 --> 01:08:29.970
I had no power on the show
971
01:08:30.350 --> 01:08:32.850
where we had an open discussion about a lot of my complaints.
972
01:08:35.435 --> 01:08:38.255
I'm not Stefan, so I don't know which episode that was.
973
01:08:38.795 --> 01:08:39.295
But
974
01:08:40.554 --> 01:08:43.375
right now, like, do you see that they're gonna they're,
975
01:08:44.650 --> 01:08:55.845
like, first of all, they're, like, a bunch of vague tweets about it. There's no, like, proper statement. Yeah. And then in Telegram, in the group chat in Telegram, Nopara, the founder of Wasabi, said they're gonna
976
01:08:57.345 --> 01:08:59.285
pay a chain surveillance firm
977
01:09:00.440 --> 01:09:01.340
or multiple,
978
01:09:01.640 --> 01:09:03.660
I don't know, I think he said 1,
979
01:09:04.840 --> 01:09:08.380
to screen transactions before they go into coin join rounds
980
01:09:08.985 --> 01:09:10.205
and block transactions,
981
01:09:11.065 --> 01:09:14.765
if they get flagged by the chain surveillance company. And, presumably
982
01:09:15.385 --> 01:09:24.500
I mean, these chain surveillance companies, they gotta share they're sharing all this information around. They're combining with other data they have, other external data they have from KYC companies and stuff.
983
01:09:26.095 --> 01:09:29.715
So, like, CoinJoin fees paid to will literally be paying,
984
01:09:30.815 --> 01:09:31.635
you know, these
985
01:09:32.255 --> 01:09:33.715
anti privacy mercenaries.
986
01:09:35.660 --> 01:09:38.400
And I just I just don't understand. Like,
987
01:09:39.420 --> 01:09:43.360
maybe they disagree with my technical issues with
988
01:09:44.565 --> 01:09:46.425
with with Wasabi and
989
01:09:47.205 --> 01:09:56.280
and some of the choices. No. You know, the faults. But, like, why why not just shut down the company at point instead of doing that? Like, that's just disheartening. Right? That's just
990
01:09:56.980 --> 01:09:58.840
like, where are the priorities there?
991
01:10:00.555 --> 01:10:03.055
Yeah. I've always tried to be, like,
992
01:10:03.995 --> 01:10:05.455
be hard on the issue,
993
01:10:05.915 --> 01:10:14.170
not hard on the people, and they say you were one of their biggest shi shills. You still are, man. See, we're we're giving the advertising.
994
01:10:14.790 --> 01:10:16.170
We're wasabi right now.
995
01:10:17.705 --> 01:10:24.365
Don't use it. Well, yeah, you don't use it anymore, but we are shilling it on them. I'm saying don't the freak shouldn't use it.
996
01:10:26.320 --> 01:10:29.600
Now everyone will use it because you said they they shouldn't. But,
997
01:10:31.760 --> 01:10:32.420
I think,
998
01:10:33.280 --> 01:10:37.805
from my experience of being in startups and being a
999
01:10:38.905 --> 01:10:39.405
developer,
1000
01:10:39.865 --> 01:10:42.685
CTO, founder, this and that is just,
1001
01:10:43.700 --> 01:10:46.980
there are competing priorities. And that's where I think,
1002
01:10:48.100 --> 01:10:52.600
no part of it just didn't have the bandwidth to process your complaints
1003
01:10:53.235 --> 01:10:54.695
and is now in position,
1004
01:10:57.715 --> 01:11:02.295
where taking everything, like all the information that he has, that we don't have,
1005
01:11:02.690 --> 01:11:05.270
he is making judgment call. And,
1006
01:11:06.050 --> 01:11:11.030
I don't know. Maybe I am too skeptical. I re you know, I respectively think that's bullshit.
1007
01:11:11.730 --> 01:11:12.230
Yeah.
1008
01:11:12.545 --> 01:11:16.245
I Sure. I I made my complaints very clear.
1009
01:11:17.985 --> 01:11:21.125
I was gaslit. I said they weren't they weren't valid complaints.
1010
01:11:22.230 --> 01:11:26.570
Wasabi 2 point o, which Wasabi 2 point o, which they're rolling out right now,
1011
01:11:27.510 --> 01:11:29.510
attempted to fix a bunch of the complaints,
1012
01:11:30.475 --> 01:11:32.815
without ever saying that they were valid complaints.
1013
01:11:33.835 --> 01:11:37.455
I was personally attacked about it instead of actually changing anything,
1014
01:11:38.719 --> 01:11:43.139
But I'm willing to put all that behind me in terms of this present discussion
1015
01:11:44.079 --> 01:11:46.099
and everything else in a vacuum.
1016
01:11:46.475 --> 01:11:51.355
Right? Everything else in a vacuum. Wasabi we're talking today, this conversation is about
1017
01:11:51.995 --> 01:11:53.295
the title of this conversation
1018
01:11:53.700 --> 01:12:04.675
is the viral nature of information and the power of open source software. And the power of open source software is is it's greater than any individual or group or company. It's not controlled.
1019
01:12:05.375 --> 01:12:11.870
Right? It can live on past people. And with with Wasabi Wasabi itself is free open source makes
1020
01:12:14.610 --> 01:12:15.110
the
1021
01:12:17.850 --> 01:12:18.350
coin
1022
01:12:19.770 --> 01:12:23.775
joint fees, and that's cksnacks. Right? So that makes the coin joint fees, and that's zk Snacks.
1023
01:12:24.635 --> 01:12:36.890
Right? So that company, if they don't if if they don't have the capability of running a coordinator without paying a chain surveillance firm to spy on their users and block people from accessing
1024
01:12:37.670 --> 01:12:38.410
their service,
1025
01:12:39.175 --> 01:12:53.190
then they should shut down that company. And if if someone else or some other group you know, there's contributors outside of the company that are already contributing to Wasabi wants to continue on the project, the project will survive. Someone else will run a coordinator that won't be completely
1026
01:12:53.490 --> 01:12:55.190
cut. But I just don't understand,
1027
01:12:56.105 --> 01:12:59.085
like and then they're doing this double talk where they're
1028
01:12:59.545 --> 01:13:01.325
like, anyone can run a coordinator.
1029
01:13:01.945 --> 01:13:08.420
Like, they don't have to use our coordinator. Okay. So then shut down your fucking coordinator. Like, at the end of the day, it's it's
1030
01:13:08.880 --> 01:13:12.260
it's I mean, it's a it's a greedy choice. Right? The choice is
1031
01:13:12.855 --> 01:13:22.210
they're they're making a shit ton of money off of CoinJoin fees, and this was one of my original complaints to no powers that I was getting personally attacked. But meanwhile, I paid them a shit ton of Bitcoin
1032
01:13:22.750 --> 01:13:24.449
in terms of CoinJoin fees
1033
01:13:25.309 --> 01:13:26.849
for for a poor product,
1034
01:13:27.235 --> 01:13:33.335
and I recommended it to people who paid a shit ton of CoinJoin fees to them for a poor product.
1035
01:13:34.090 --> 01:13:38.830
And then meanwhile, I was getting accused of getting paid by the opposition. Like, I literally paid them.
1036
01:13:40.969 --> 01:13:41.469
Yeah.
1037
01:13:42.635 --> 01:13:50.175
I agree. But my whole point is don't shut down the company. Use the fees from normies and everything else, and you fund
1038
01:13:50.510 --> 01:13:51.010
development
1039
01:13:51.310 --> 01:14:00.525
of open source software, and then someone can run a coordinator. As it stands right now, the company is funding change surveillance companies is what the coinsurance fees are doing. Well,
1040
01:14:01.305 --> 01:14:02.745
news flash is that,
1041
01:14:03.385 --> 01:14:05.805
chain surveillance companies are getting funded
1042
01:14:06.250 --> 01:14:08.510
by, we have way bigger fish.
1043
01:14:10.250 --> 01:14:13.870
So the chain surveillance companies are going to survive
1044
01:14:14.170 --> 01:14:15.310
regardless of
1045
01:14:15.724 --> 01:14:19.344
whether Nopara and Wasabi, like, give money to them.
1046
01:14:19.724 --> 01:14:20.224
So,
1047
01:14:21.244 --> 01:14:24.945
I'm telling you, it's never binary choice. It's you need to take
1048
01:14:26.239 --> 01:14:27.920
good with the bad. And,
1049
01:14:29.040 --> 01:14:35.465
I do understand that position, but I'm telling you, I disagree. I I do like it as long as Wasabi
1050
01:14:36.005 --> 01:14:39.625
and Nopar are keeping the software fully open source.
1051
01:14:40.690 --> 01:14:43.030
You know? I I'm like, let the market,
1052
01:14:44.050 --> 01:14:45.030
figure it out.
1053
01:14:45.409 --> 01:14:45.809
And,
1054
01:14:46.289 --> 01:14:48.309
if someone is running coordinators
1055
01:14:49.090 --> 01:14:49.590
without
1056
01:14:51.245 --> 01:14:51.745
surveillance,
1057
01:14:54.525 --> 01:14:57.025
ZK Snacks is running it with surveillance.
1058
01:14:57.460 --> 01:15:01.080
Okay, people. Let's let's put money where our mouth you know?
1059
01:15:01.780 --> 01:15:02.840
What was the saying?
1060
01:15:03.300 --> 01:15:03.800
Put
1061
01:15:04.260 --> 01:15:14.615
the money where your mouth is. There's already one there's already one Wasabi coordinator that is not doing it, a popular one, which is being run by Chain Case, which is the iPhone version.
1062
01:15:15.910 --> 01:15:17.050
There is a coordinator,
1063
01:15:19.270 --> 01:15:24.410
the samurai coordinator for Whirlpool is not a is not you can't use it with Wasabi.
1064
01:15:26.375 --> 01:15:27.675
They're not running surveillance.
1065
01:15:29.014 --> 01:15:34.140
Okay. It's just Use samurai. But then you also have to remember, of course, with these centralized
1066
01:15:35.020 --> 01:15:35.600
coordinators regardless,
1067
01:15:36.220 --> 01:15:38.080
and this is something that I made very
1068
01:15:38.460 --> 01:15:42.160
clear. I have a whole thread about it that is probably shadow banned from years ago,
1069
01:15:43.815 --> 01:15:49.995
is is the major trade up you get from a centralized coordinator, which, by the way, no power disagrees with this as a concept,
1070
01:15:51.060 --> 01:16:01.045
if you listen to the episode. But but the main trade off with the centralized coordinator is the benefit you get is it's more efficient. It they're able to coordinate larger coin join rounds.
1071
01:16:01.905 --> 01:16:06.150
You you're able to get a a better anonymity set quicker and
1072
01:16:07.330 --> 01:16:07.830
faster
1073
01:16:08.929 --> 01:16:11.429
because you're coordinating it with all these people.
1074
01:16:12.530 --> 01:16:20.965
And as a result, you're also getting all these fees, so you're able to make the UX of the software better and everything easier. But the main negative is is
1075
01:16:21.425 --> 01:16:24.485
is you don't get civil resistance from the coordinator itself,
1076
01:16:25.659 --> 01:16:32.320
and it's impossible to ever prove. You see all these services. You see this in VPN land a lot. All these services say there are no logs.
1077
01:16:33.765 --> 01:16:35.305
It's impossible to prove.
1078
01:16:35.685 --> 01:16:36.825
It's it's impossible
1079
01:16:37.285 --> 01:16:37.785
to
1080
01:16:38.405 --> 01:16:44.140
to prove in a in a verifiable way that someone, the absence of logs or the absence of surveillance.
1081
01:16:46.200 --> 01:16:51.645
So you you're not getting you're not getting protection from from who's ever running the coordinator themselves.
1082
01:16:52.745 --> 01:16:54.845
That's the trade off that is being made.
1083
01:16:56.345 --> 01:16:57.725
Tools like join market
1084
01:16:58.739 --> 01:16:59.400
or Samurais,
1085
01:17:00.260 --> 01:17:02.520
Stonewall, these p to p coin joins
1086
01:17:02.980 --> 01:17:04.520
mitigate that trade off,
1087
01:17:06.885 --> 01:17:07.385
but,
1088
01:17:08.165 --> 01:17:14.480
like, they don't have that trade off, but that is that is an inherent trade off with with centralized coordinators.
1089
01:17:15.020 --> 01:17:16.960
I don't know. It just all seems so
1090
01:17:18.220 --> 01:17:23.005
and then, like, No Power also like, I feel like I'm just venting now, but, like, No Power tweeted out, like,
1091
01:17:23.565 --> 01:17:25.745
the attack on CoinJoin has begun,
1092
01:17:26.125 --> 01:17:26.784
you know.
1093
01:17:27.645 --> 01:17:32.545
It in my opinion, it really hurts. It's really bad news for Bitcoin fungibility.
1094
01:17:33.470 --> 01:17:36.690
Like, this is right now, this is a wasabi thing.
1095
01:17:38.430 --> 01:17:53.700
There could be an argument that samurai is next maybe, But, like, it's clearly not an attack on join market. Like, join market was set up in a way that it doesn't have great UX. Hopefully, the UX gets better. I'm part of a bounty to make UX better. There's a great group of guys doing,
1096
01:17:54.640 --> 01:17:57.860
the jam project where this idea that you can run
1097
01:17:58.335 --> 01:18:03.235
join market easily on on, like, a Raspi blitz or an Umbrel node or any of these
1098
01:18:04.255 --> 01:18:08.920
nodes at home, and you get a nice web UI interface. Like, it's not there yet. It's an alpha.
1099
01:18:10.260 --> 01:18:14.199
But, like, join market was built to be resistant to this type of thing. Right?
1100
01:18:16.179 --> 01:18:16.679
So
1101
01:18:17.895 --> 01:18:20.555
and and this is something that I always thought was,
1102
01:18:23.655 --> 01:18:31.679
there there were a lot of there were a lot of people in the samurai camp that that that called this, and I always said that they were being hyperbolic. This idea that
1103
01:18:32.380 --> 01:18:34.320
wasabi was gonna make a bunch of mistakes.
1104
01:18:34.945 --> 01:18:38.005
They were going to get themselves into a hole,
1105
01:18:38.385 --> 01:18:40.245
and then they were gonna say, like,
1106
01:18:40.705 --> 01:18:44.565
this is an attack on Bitcoin privacy. Like, privacy is dead even though
1107
01:18:47.240 --> 01:18:53.180
it it it was really how they designed their system and how they handled their regulatory issues and how they
1108
01:18:53.705 --> 01:18:54.685
expose themselves.
1109
01:18:57.305 --> 01:19:05.320
I don't know. It's just frustrating. We there's just so few allies in the Bitcoin privacy world, and I just Yeah. When I see shit like that, it just makes me
1110
01:19:06.099 --> 01:19:07.560
feel even more disillusioned.
1111
01:19:09.460 --> 01:19:10.840
Get it all out, man.
1112
01:19:11.204 --> 01:19:14.985
Don't let information. Yeah. Stick with you because Thanks for the vent.
1113
01:19:16.005 --> 01:19:19.900
No. I I now will switch my screen to to
1114
01:19:20.360 --> 01:19:21.100
no tweet
1115
01:19:21.960 --> 01:19:24.460
when he's, like, glorious days in 2013.
1116
01:19:25.159 --> 01:19:29.975
Bitcoin community successfully pushed back against blacklisting. I'm gonna retweet it to troll
1117
01:19:30.435 --> 01:19:30.935
you.
1118
01:19:32.675 --> 01:19:43.160
But no, man. It's it's What is he even talking about in that tweet? Like, okay. So why isn't he pushing back against blacklisting? Like, why is he running a coordinator that's gonna have changed surveillance ahead of it?
1119
01:19:43.540 --> 01:19:49.715
Like, what the fuck is he even talking about in that tweet? Like, is it it's just a cell phone is what that tweet is.
1120
01:19:51.215 --> 01:20:01.360
I am thinking about what is the next stage of Matt. Maybe it's, like, coach Matt, do better, be better because you're so frustrated that they're not being better and that
1121
01:20:01.820 --> 01:20:06.395
what happened was called out and it was converted. The ultimate the ultimate LARP
1122
01:20:06.775 --> 01:20:09.195
by me is that I'm not a programmer.
1123
01:20:09.895 --> 01:20:12.875
So, really, what I need to do is just kill this identity,
1124
01:20:13.360 --> 01:20:18.739
kill dispatch and rabbit hole recap, and, like Oh my gosh. Spend a year learning how to program
1125
01:20:19.679 --> 01:20:22.695
and then come back as a nim and just start building shit.
1126
01:20:23.735 --> 01:20:25.514
That that is the ultimate LARP.
1127
01:20:26.135 --> 01:20:30.235
And I own that. I own that every fucking day. Don't worry, freaks.
1128
01:20:31.139 --> 01:20:32.659
No freaks. You heard it.
1129
01:20:33.060 --> 01:20:34.599
Actionable Bitcoin discussion
1130
01:20:34.900 --> 01:20:38.280
breaking. Matt is becoming a programmer or rock star developer.
1131
01:20:38.955 --> 01:20:41.375
Hey, I'm ready, man. Whenever you are.
1132
01:20:41.675 --> 01:20:45.535
Because won't have rock Rockstar won't teach me, but his next identity will teach me.
1133
01:20:46.610 --> 01:20:53.429
So, yeah, you you will get into the casket on August 13th with me, and we'll unite together.
1134
01:20:54.085 --> 01:21:00.025
I'm telling you, man, like, we were going to inspire and encourage so many people after this podcast because,
1135
01:21:02.310 --> 01:21:05.190
yeah. It's about not letting that viral
1136
01:21:05.990 --> 01:21:11.770
no. No. It is. Like, that not letting that viral nature of information take over and realize
1137
01:21:14.175 --> 01:21:15.635
how to fight back
1138
01:21:16.335 --> 01:21:18.435
because there is so much happening
1139
01:21:19.090 --> 01:21:20.710
and, you just can't
1140
01:21:21.090 --> 01:21:31.515
let it get to you. And, and like big losses like this, that, you know, this was called with Wasabi and it's actually happened. Like, okay, man. It's it's one thing,
1141
01:21:32.455 --> 01:21:33.835
but let's keep going.
1142
01:21:34.430 --> 01:21:39.650
It's it's I look at it also as a recognition of how far we have come
1143
01:21:40.190 --> 01:21:41.410
to the point where,
1144
01:21:43.045 --> 01:21:44.665
Bitcoin and crypto
1145
01:21:45.285 --> 01:21:49.065
is so much in crosshairs of regulators. Like it is,
1146
01:21:50.130 --> 01:21:55.430
considering my position. I mean, I obviously can't talk much about my professional engagements,
1147
01:21:56.050 --> 01:21:59.575
but it is the talk of the town, man. Like,
1148
01:22:00.195 --> 01:22:06.135
more and more people are waking up to this realization that, money and the state
1149
01:22:06.540 --> 01:22:07.840
will be separated.
1150
01:22:08.860 --> 01:22:09.360
And,
1151
01:22:10.460 --> 01:22:10.960
it's
1152
01:22:11.500 --> 01:22:19.735
a scary thought for for many. It's like, no, woah, how how will we execute or all our plans, all the like great
1153
01:22:20.435 --> 01:22:21.415
reset and,
1154
01:22:23.530 --> 01:22:32.110
central plan the world, like the best possible world into existence if we don't have control over money. Like, we we see that time is running out.
1155
01:22:34.065 --> 01:22:40.645
And, It does feel like it's heating up, right? Yeah, it is. It is man. Like they, they are becoming more aggressive
1156
01:22:41.030 --> 01:22:41.530
and,
1157
01:22:42.710 --> 01:22:44.170
I'm telling you, like I did, there's
1158
01:22:44.789 --> 01:22:47.289
when you're participating in it as a developer,
1159
01:22:48.735 --> 01:22:49.395
that's, that's
1160
01:22:50.175 --> 01:22:52.595
what has been like a lot of complaints lately.
1161
01:22:53.215 --> 01:22:56.035
Developers, even open source developers being,
1162
01:22:57.739 --> 01:23:01.040
chased down personally sued. I mean, we had a whole fake.
1163
01:23:01.500 --> 01:23:02.000
Yes,
1164
01:23:04.275 --> 01:23:07.335
We we do because I can tell in in my own
1165
01:23:07.795 --> 01:23:08.755
experience when you see,
1166
01:23:10.435 --> 01:23:10.935
Cody
1167
01:23:11.235 --> 01:23:11.735
from
1168
01:23:12.435 --> 01:23:16.670
the 3 d printed guns, like shilling BTC pay server on Alex Jones,
1169
01:23:17.050 --> 01:23:24.755
you will be glad that you're a NIM and, you know, government can't find all of you that's like building BTC pay server. Right.
1170
01:23:25.375 --> 01:23:32.360
That's a that was a that was a hilarious moment. You know, when he was like Cody on on When did that happen?
1171
01:23:33.140 --> 01:23:34.520
That was, like, 2018,
1172
01:23:36.180 --> 01:23:37.960
even, like, 20. Early.
1173
01:23:38.715 --> 01:23:40.494
Yeah. It was early. And then,
1174
01:23:41.195 --> 01:23:43.215
Al Docs who did it. It's it's like,
1175
01:23:43.915 --> 01:23:44.415
Goldstein
1176
01:23:45.195 --> 01:23:54.190
Goldie. He also died. But when we were at Bitblock, boom, he was like, right. Did did you like it? Did you like it? I'm like, goddamn it, man. You should've give me a transforming.
1177
01:23:54.889 --> 01:23:57.325
So I'm like, coding a software that's
1178
01:23:57.705 --> 01:23:59.085
shield on Alex Jones.
1179
01:24:00.025 --> 01:24:03.465
It does feel like it's heating up with, like, the whole sanctions talk and
1180
01:24:03.865 --> 01:24:04.365
Yep.
1181
01:24:06.450 --> 01:24:10.550
I can tell you well, the the part that I can tell you that
1182
01:24:10.930 --> 01:24:12.930
it's public. I mean, it's,
1183
01:24:13.705 --> 01:24:17.165
but it's maybe not so obvious with, with people. It's,
1184
01:24:17.625 --> 01:24:18.925
it's that OFAC,
1185
01:24:20.105 --> 01:24:21.085
sanction list.
1186
01:24:22.310 --> 01:24:24.389
Now that you have conflict in,
1187
01:24:24.790 --> 01:24:25.290
Ukraine,
1188
01:24:25.909 --> 01:24:31.690
there is, like, a real time updating or, like, where what area is under sanctions.
1189
01:24:32.375 --> 01:24:33.355
Right. It's ridiculous.
1190
01:24:33.735 --> 01:24:39.195
It is that information velocity because 20 years ago, you will be happy if you can like,
1191
01:24:40.070 --> 01:24:45.450
put a country under sanctions. Now I don't know what's next. We'll need, like, GPS trackers
1192
01:24:46.150 --> 01:24:46.650
and
1193
01:24:47.015 --> 01:24:51.515
real time resolving of location addresses. They're like, oh, you know, if you go
1194
01:24:51.975 --> 01:24:55.515
20 feet in this direction, you're no longer under sanctions.
1195
01:24:56.380 --> 01:24:56.700
So
1196
01:24:57.420 --> 01:25:01.760
Well, I mean, with this Russia thing, it's even worse than sanctions. I mean, first of all,
1197
01:25:02.140 --> 01:25:05.760
it's it's it's the most intense sanctions I've ever seen,
1198
01:25:07.645 --> 01:25:13.505
but there's also, like, this element of cancel culture that is mixed in there, right, where, like, companies are pulling out
1199
01:25:13.989 --> 01:25:18.250
and canceling just anyone who's Russian that's not even on the sanction list.
1200
01:25:19.350 --> 01:25:21.690
And then also, like, just this idea of
1201
01:25:25.095 --> 01:25:30.555
just we live in such a litigious world, a world, like, filled with liabilities, so you just have people
1202
01:25:31.800 --> 01:25:32.700
you just have
1203
01:25:33.080 --> 01:25:44.844
you just have people that just don't want don't want the liability on their hands. Right? And I feel like that is kind of what we're seeing with Wasabi, where I don't we don't even know if they've got a necessarily illegal order or not. They might have.
1204
01:25:45.225 --> 01:25:46.844
But it could just be a
1205
01:25:47.864 --> 01:25:48.364
Yep.
1206
01:25:48.690 --> 01:25:53.910
It could just be a, we don't want the liability, so we're just gonna we're just gonna go ahead and over comply.
1207
01:25:55.250 --> 01:25:59.485
Yep. We we will not hold that banner, that standard.
1208
01:26:00.105 --> 01:26:03.005
What is this video you're showing that you linked?
1209
01:26:03.704 --> 01:26:14.030
Well, you said, Russia's getting banned. This is, Russian influencer chick crying about her Instagram account being banned. You wanna hear it? Yes. It's beautiful.
1210
01:26:32.545 --> 01:26:39.525
She's crying saying that, like, her Instagram account is, like, her life, her soul. What is she posting this on them?
1211
01:26:40.820 --> 01:26:44.760
Well, I think she posted on Instagram before they cut off her access.
1212
01:26:46.020 --> 01:26:46.520
But,
1213
01:26:47.195 --> 01:26:48.655
you know, you and I are laughing.
1214
01:26:49.195 --> 01:26:51.855
Yeah. But you and I are laughing, but it is
1215
01:26:52.715 --> 01:26:53.695
very interesting
1216
01:26:54.880 --> 01:26:59.139
as a, you know, concept. And I mean, she she is right.
1217
01:26:59.520 --> 01:27:00.020
Once
1218
01:27:00.800 --> 01:27:01.699
she's demonetized,
1219
01:27:02.685 --> 01:27:04.784
her life changes rapidly.
1220
01:27:05.645 --> 01:27:09.025
And that's the environment in which we are going in.
1221
01:27:10.200 --> 01:27:11.580
It's not the influencers.
1222
01:27:12.040 --> 01:27:13.580
They they, you know, they.
1223
01:27:14.040 --> 01:27:15.660
It's their main source of income
1224
01:27:16.520 --> 01:27:18.060
and they just get cut off.
1225
01:27:18.474 --> 01:27:20.974
They build this platform on a centralized platform
1226
01:27:21.275 --> 01:27:21.934
on quicksand.
1227
01:27:23.514 --> 01:27:29.200
You know, this is why distributed networks and open source software is so important because if you build your life on quicksand
1228
01:27:30.380 --> 01:27:31.440
I mean, if we just
1229
01:27:31.980 --> 01:27:34.080
throw out whatever, you know,
1230
01:27:35.385 --> 01:27:38.045
put to the side any kind of ethics or moral
1231
01:27:38.425 --> 01:27:40.925
questions about influencers as a,
1232
01:27:42.810 --> 01:27:44.110
you know, as a business,
1233
01:27:46.570 --> 01:27:49.150
the or, like, their tactics or their,
1234
01:27:50.489 --> 01:27:51.230
in general,
1235
01:27:52.205 --> 01:27:56.865
you have all these people. You have all these young people that are just basically building their livelihoods on quicksand,
1236
01:27:57.485 --> 01:28:00.945
and they can just get pulled right out from underneath them.
1237
01:28:01.710 --> 01:28:03.090
And you have people whose
1238
01:28:03.469 --> 01:28:05.650
life's wealth has just evaporated
1239
01:28:06.590 --> 01:28:07.489
in a devaluing
1240
01:28:08.030 --> 01:28:12.655
ruble. They can't get money out of the country. They can't get information from out of the country.
1241
01:28:13.995 --> 01:28:16.335
They're stuck in their little propaganda silos.
1242
01:28:18.830 --> 01:28:27.925
It's it's terrible. No. It's terrible. Now more than ever, we need these tools. You know? We need we need people to support them. We need people to build them. We need people to run them.
1243
01:28:28.385 --> 01:28:38.180
We need people to educate people on them. And I I I do My cautious my optimistic take is, like, the most pessimistic optimistic take,
1244
01:28:38.560 --> 01:28:42.420
which is, like, I I just think people mostly learn from getting burned.
1245
01:28:42.995 --> 01:28:52.900
So I just what I see happening is just more and more people get burned, and it just being extremely painful. But then when we get out the other side, it's people will realize the need for this shit.
1246
01:28:54.340 --> 01:28:59.480
That's my optimistic take. It's just in the short to medium term, it's just super not optimistic,
1247
01:28:59.940 --> 01:29:02.440
but ultimately, it becomes optimistic. Right?
1248
01:29:03.635 --> 01:29:09.415
Hey, man. You you have the best guest on the show to talk about this because I grew up under sanctions.
1249
01:29:10.835 --> 01:29:11.335
And,
1250
01:29:11.715 --> 01:29:12.534
talk about it?
1251
01:29:12.949 --> 01:29:13.449
Oh,
1252
01:29:13.989 --> 01:29:14.489
just,
1253
01:29:14.790 --> 01:29:16.810
just briefly to say that
1254
01:29:17.750 --> 01:29:20.409
a lot of the people already realize it.
1255
01:29:20.965 --> 01:29:25.465
It's just that you need 10 years to, to like, get out of that situation.
1256
01:29:26.324 --> 01:29:27.864
It's like at minimum.
1257
01:29:28.980 --> 01:29:29.380
And,
1258
01:29:30.980 --> 01:29:33.640
that's, I guess, where your long term optimism
1259
01:29:34.340 --> 01:29:36.760
comes into play. It's it's just that.
1260
01:29:39.485 --> 01:29:39.985
Yeah.
1261
01:29:41.005 --> 01:29:42.785
What do you mean by that 10 years?
1262
01:29:43.885 --> 01:29:44.385
Well,
1263
01:29:46.130 --> 01:29:48.869
when you are in the country under
1264
01:29:49.329 --> 01:29:49.829
sanctions
1265
01:29:50.769 --> 01:29:51.090
and,
1266
01:29:52.405 --> 01:29:55.945
you also realize that that you're being lied to,
1267
01:29:56.885 --> 01:29:58.345
by mainstream media.
1268
01:30:00.219 --> 01:30:05.760
There is not much you can do in that immediate moment. I mean, you also have engineers from
1269
01:30:06.219 --> 01:30:10.345
Russia now or Belarus who are complaining about they're
1270
01:30:10.885 --> 01:30:14.585
being cut off from all the services, all the platforms.
1271
01:30:15.900 --> 01:30:20.639
So what is it that they can do in in this immediate moment? Like, they can't do anything.
1272
01:30:21.340 --> 01:30:22.880
What they can do is,
1273
01:30:23.985 --> 01:30:25.765
they can finish their education,
1274
01:30:27.665 --> 01:30:31.425
can find a way to immigrate, but and,
1275
01:30:32.150 --> 01:30:36.250
in 5 to 10 years, okay, they will no longer be in that position.
1276
01:30:36.790 --> 01:30:37.290
But
1277
01:30:38.150 --> 01:30:49.545
I also worry that that approach is, is not sustainable. Like you can only move so many times. Like I've moved here to US and all of you, like rug pulled me with this
1278
01:30:50.020 --> 01:30:52.360
broke nonsense and bullshit. I mean,
1279
01:30:52.900 --> 01:30:56.120
now I now I need to move to Texas or something or Florida.
1280
01:30:57.700 --> 01:30:58.200
But,
1281
01:30:58.885 --> 01:30:59.545
yeah, you
1282
01:31:00.085 --> 01:31:04.264
that's the advantage we have in the United States is we have the competition of states.
1283
01:31:05.284 --> 01:31:08.390
Yes. And It's easy to cross those borders at least for now.
1284
01:31:09.830 --> 01:31:12.650
We need, yeah, to to preserve it.
1285
01:31:14.310 --> 01:31:19.595
But I'm telling you, there is definitely that power in numbers, that collectivism,
1286
01:31:21.175 --> 01:31:26.795
that fact that if you're public, if you're in the group, if you're like group think
1287
01:31:27.290 --> 01:31:32.750
you're much easier to to navigate in advance, like, navigate challenges ahead.
1288
01:31:33.210 --> 01:31:41.145
You have to you have to you have to navigate them ahead. Because if you don't navigate them ahead I mean, I think between what happened in Canada and then what happened,
1289
01:31:42.085 --> 01:31:44.460
in Ukraine and Russia, like, is a perfect example
1290
01:31:44.840 --> 01:31:46.540
that, like, when the crisis hit,
1291
01:31:47.400 --> 01:31:51.175
like, when shit properly hits the fan So it's too late.
1292
01:31:51.735 --> 01:31:55.994
It's it's way too late. It's, like, it becomes impossible to
1293
01:31:56.454 --> 01:32:00.315
whether you're talking about on on a on a larger scale, things like,
1294
01:32:01.700 --> 01:32:07.160
like, we have Lola, we have 1 we have a Big Corner that's trying to roll out mesh nets in Ukraine,
1295
01:32:09.255 --> 01:32:10.795
you know, with with,
1296
01:32:12.775 --> 01:32:14.074
one of the Bitcoin associations
1297
01:32:14.375 --> 01:32:24.130
that's based over there. She's accepting donations. Like, you you it's really difficult to roll it out in a war zone. If if you're trying to if you're trying to, like, figure out your privacy
1298
01:32:24.430 --> 01:32:30.835
or or access Bitcoin and you don't have it when the when the currency starts failing, when the bank starts failing,
1299
01:32:32.870 --> 01:32:41.210
you know, when they start trying to seize your money, when they start trying to seize your rights, seize your speech, put you in jail, at that point, it's already fucking too late.
1300
01:32:44.215 --> 01:32:45.995
So it's important to compare,
1301
01:32:46.375 --> 01:32:46.875
but
1302
01:32:47.655 --> 01:32:51.034
Say no more, man. Let's go then. Let's you see
1303
01:32:51.770 --> 01:32:52.270
6102
1304
01:32:52.730 --> 01:32:55.310
just merge PR to remove a savvy from bitcoinonly.com.
1305
01:32:57.050 --> 01:33:07.225
We have conference in Miami. I'm fully dead. He's still out there. Yeah. He is still out there, but, August 13th, you are also dying. You're getting into casket with me.
1306
01:33:07.845 --> 01:33:13.929
Whoever is jealous, they can get over it that you're you'll be dying together with me will hug in the casket.
1307
01:33:14.389 --> 01:33:19.130
But let's let's put more stuff on on agenda and let's execute because
1308
01:33:19.565 --> 01:33:21.585
with Bitcoin conference coming up,
1309
01:33:21.885 --> 01:33:26.225
we need to announce that that you're doing amazing job with open source
1310
01:33:26.880 --> 01:33:29.700
area within the about that. That's a positive note.
1311
01:33:30.640 --> 01:33:34.560
Because I want to I wanna pitch because I know there are some,
1312
01:33:35.200 --> 01:33:35.665
work,
1313
01:33:36.705 --> 01:33:37.205
workspace
1314
01:33:37.585 --> 01:33:38.725
workshop tables.
1315
01:33:39.185 --> 01:33:43.610
One of the workshops that we're going to do, and here's my pitch, is like,
1316
01:33:43.910 --> 01:33:47.930
bring your fiat to turn it into Bitcoin flyer. That will be the workshop.
1317
01:33:48.390 --> 01:33:49.530
So Ben Ark,
1318
01:33:49.835 --> 01:33:53.295
shout out to him. He supplied me with those buy Bitcoin stamps.
1319
01:33:54.554 --> 01:33:59.534
What I propose that we do is everyone brings their, like, dollar bills.
1320
01:34:00.300 --> 01:34:06.400
We stamped them with buy Bitcoin and for like a dollar, whoever donates their stamp dollar,
1321
01:34:07.385 --> 01:34:12.605
gets that stamp to, like, keep stamping more so that we can propagate the message of buying Bitcoin.
1322
01:34:13.145 --> 01:34:15.085
Once we collect all those dollars,
1323
01:34:15.780 --> 01:34:16.740
we will start,
1324
01:34:17.380 --> 01:34:19.400
distributing. Like, it will be air dropped
1325
01:34:19.700 --> 01:34:20.680
across Miami.
1326
01:34:22.500 --> 01:34:24.920
What do you say? Like, are we doing that workshop?
1327
01:34:25.905 --> 01:34:29.685
I mean, yeah, you're hap I I think that'd be a great workshop.
1328
01:34:30.945 --> 01:34:33.605
I'm not I'm not sure if I really,
1329
01:34:36.080 --> 01:34:41.700
I want you as a note. It's like you, you will be one of the people air dropping. I'll I'll get you, like, $200
1330
01:34:42.080 --> 01:34:51.805
in the $1 bills. I'm not I'm not sure if we really need to tell people to buy Bitcoin. I think they'll figure it out when they need it, and we just have to be ready for them with education.
1331
01:34:54.190 --> 01:35:00.450
I've said in the past that water doesn't need marketing, but neither does and neither does Bitcoin. You figure it out when you need it.
1332
01:35:01.635 --> 01:35:06.295
But, yeah, it's a cool idea. So so just to unpack that a little bit, so the
1333
01:35:06.755 --> 01:35:08.775
the open source stage, which I've been
1334
01:35:09.890 --> 01:35:18.745
spending a shit ton of fucking time on the last few weeks, but we've been planning stages for it for, like, 6 months or 7 months at at Bitcoin 2022
1335
01:35:19.125 --> 01:35:21.145
is is 3 full days of
1336
01:35:21.525 --> 01:35:23.705
of programming dedicated to open source,
1337
01:35:24.325 --> 01:35:25.545
contributors and projects.
1338
01:35:26.699 --> 01:35:35.599
The agenda is fucking packed out with just like, it's it feels like agenda like, space time on that stage is more scarce than Bitcoin at this point.
1339
01:35:36.985 --> 01:35:39.385
Full 3 days of content. The room is,
1340
01:35:39.705 --> 01:35:41.565
fire rated for 2,000 people.
1341
01:35:42.425 --> 01:35:44.445
We're gonna have a 1,000 chairs in it,
1342
01:35:45.060 --> 01:35:47.320
massive room, and 12 workshop tables.
1343
01:35:48.580 --> 01:35:53.320
The workshop tables will be unstructured. Anyone can use them for whatever they want to do there
1344
01:35:53.625 --> 01:35:54.445
all 3
1345
01:35:55.705 --> 01:35:56.205
days,
1346
01:35:57.465 --> 01:36:00.445
yeah, including this buy Bitcoin thing. I I'm I'm
1347
01:36:00.950 --> 01:36:01.770
I'm pretty fucking excited
1348
01:36:02.070 --> 01:36:02.890
about it.
1349
01:36:03.990 --> 01:36:04.730
I think
1350
01:36:05.990 --> 01:36:07.850
on its own, it'll probably,
1351
01:36:08.775 --> 01:36:19.570
like, it's for, obviously, it's in the largest it's in the same venue as the largest Bitcoin event in history, which is Bitcoin 2022, which is on track to be 35,000 to 45,000 people.
1352
01:36:20.590 --> 01:36:25.650
But that 1, 2,000 person conference hall is larger than most Bitcoin conferences that have ever happened,
1353
01:36:25.955 --> 01:36:28.215
and it's gonna be extremely high signal.
1354
01:36:28.675 --> 01:36:30.375
It's gonna be really fucking good.
1355
01:36:30.995 --> 01:36:33.175
So I'm pretty excited about that. I think
1356
01:36:33.970 --> 01:36:41.910
it should open up the eyes of a lot of people and the importance of of the greater open source movement, not just Bitcoin, and why Bitcoin is
1357
01:36:42.785 --> 01:36:46.805
is it's it's essential that Bitcoin is open source and not controlled by anybody,
1358
01:36:47.425 --> 01:36:48.565
and that our projects
1359
01:36:49.105 --> 01:36:51.685
that are tangential to Bitcoin are as well.
1360
01:36:53.010 --> 01:36:58.550
So, yeah, I'm pretty excited about that. We're gonna be trying to raise a bunch of money for developers at the same time.
1361
01:36:59.935 --> 01:37:05.235
So, yeah, that that should be great, and I look I just look forward to kicking it with you. It's always fun kicking it with you.
1362
01:37:05.935 --> 01:37:12.110
I'm just looking forward to sticking, like, $300 in one dollar bills that are stamped with your
1363
01:37:12.890 --> 01:37:21.205
hand, and then Matt Todell airdrop. Like The thing is, I'm Like, I'm going to make so much fun out of that on Twitter. Like, Matt,
1364
01:37:21.665 --> 01:37:30.070
Dell is participating in airdrop. I just need to find from, like, which building you're gonna throw those dollars. Have you noticed that most people just don't even use cash anymore?
1365
01:37:31.090 --> 01:37:37.235
Like, most of my peers just don't even use cash for it. They use credit cards. They use Venmo. They use Cash App.
1366
01:37:38.575 --> 01:37:39.075
Okay.
1367
01:37:39.855 --> 01:37:51.300
Let let's make a bet because you lost the bet last year on 100 k by conference day. Let's not make it about price this year. 200 k by conference day last year. Oh, 200 k. Let's get it correct.
1368
01:37:52.079 --> 01:37:54.055
Too bullish. Yeah. Let's get
1369
01:37:54.935 --> 01:37:57.915
People love to remind me of it, so I'll remind them as well.
1370
01:37:58.614 --> 01:38:01.195
I will I'm going to get $300
1371
01:38:01.815 --> 01:38:06.989
and $1 bills. They will be, like, stamped with buy Bitcoin all over them, like, easy.
1372
01:38:07.290 --> 01:38:08.429
And I'm going to
1373
01:38:09.050 --> 01:38:16.835
to do that for, like, I see who 2 more people will be. So at least, like, a $1,000 we'll have in in, like, buy Bitcoin flyers
1374
01:38:18.015 --> 01:38:19.875
in in form of dirty fiat.
1375
01:38:20.335 --> 01:38:21.235
You wanna bet?
1376
01:38:21.980 --> 01:38:25.280
But that's a bet. I I have no doubt that that'll happen.
1377
01:38:25.660 --> 01:38:26.880
I'm not gonna bet on that.
1378
01:38:27.420 --> 01:38:35.955
Okay. I support I support the cause. I'll help I'll help out with that. I just I I don't know. Maybe I'm just disenfranchised Matt right now. I'm just a bit disillusioned.
1379
01:38:38.415 --> 01:38:52.195
That's for you. Yeah. I see. That's your smile. We were getting somewhere. So let's see how much you will raise. If you do wanna kick it with us in Miami if you don't wanna come to the conference, like, you should still come to Miami. The side events are always great.
1380
01:38:52.575 --> 01:38:54.275
But if you do wanna come to the conference,
1381
01:38:55.055 --> 01:38:56.675
they have not shut down by
1382
01:38:57.340 --> 01:39:07.005
the code I the code they gave me, which is open code open source gets you 21% off. And you get I think you get, like, 30% off if you pay with Bitcoin, and then you get an additional 21% off
1383
01:39:07.565 --> 01:39:11.105
if you use code open source. But do not share that on Twitter because it's
1384
01:39:11.565 --> 01:39:17.599
it's larger than all the other codes. So if it gets shared on Twitter anymore, I'm gonna get the they're gonna cancel on me.
1385
01:39:18.219 --> 01:39:19.040
Stay private.
1386
01:39:19.420 --> 01:39:25.760
Don't don't don't become canceled. And then for open source contributors, thank you, Matt, for Yeah. They get free tickets.
1387
01:39:26.094 --> 01:39:27.554
On for free tickets.
1388
01:39:27.855 --> 01:39:32.275
Yeah. So if they're an open source contributor to the 32 projects listed on the website,
1389
01:39:33.775 --> 01:39:34.675
if you just
1390
01:39:35.860 --> 01:39:38.840
yeah. If there's 32 projects listed on the website
1391
01:39:41.140 --> 01:39:43.800
that I tried my best to pick well,
1392
01:39:45.395 --> 01:39:50.855
that was very stressful. Of course, you know, you announced 32 projects are getting free tickets, and
1393
01:39:51.235 --> 01:39:56.300
there's, like, always there's always there's always another 30 projects that are, like, why not me?
1394
01:39:57.000 --> 01:40:01.020
But it took a lot of advocating to get that going, and I'm
1395
01:40:01.925 --> 01:40:11.770
very grateful to the to the Bitcoin Magazine team for backing me on that initiative because I think it's a very important initiative. But we're gonna have right now, we've given out,
1396
01:40:13.770 --> 01:40:17.150
probably close to 300 free tickets to open source developers,
1397
01:40:18.545 --> 01:40:19.845
which I'm very proud of,
1398
01:40:20.465 --> 01:40:30.210
and and that that should be great. And they they will all be joining us on the open source stage even if they're not speaking. So speakers obviously already get free tickets. So it was it was,
1399
01:40:30.610 --> 01:40:31.510
it was
1400
01:40:31.970 --> 01:40:32.470
303100
1401
01:40:33.250 --> 01:40:38.455
tickets in addition to the free tickets of the speakers. So these people aren't being, like, compelled to speak or anything.
1402
01:40:38.835 --> 01:40:40.035
They can just chill in the
1403
01:40:41.475 --> 01:40:42.775
they can chill in the audience,
1404
01:40:44.114 --> 01:40:46.614
and still get the free tickets, so that's fucking awesome.
1405
01:40:47.600 --> 01:40:58.805
Appreciate it, Matt. Know that we appreciate it. And Zach's who always tags along with me and will be master of ceremonies at my funeral, you see what he says. He's like, don't share on Twitter while I'm Twitter.
1406
01:40:59.585 --> 01:41:03.130
Don't tweet it, Zacks. That's all I'm saying. Don't tweet it out in text.
1407
01:41:04.250 --> 01:41:07.870
Yeah. He said don't share on Twitter while I'm I'm literally streaming it to Twitter.
1408
01:41:09.690 --> 01:41:12.190
Too much of a conversation to Twitter,
1409
01:41:13.925 --> 01:41:19.385
which I think is gonna get like I said, just if if if you want if you want updates to the show,
1410
01:41:19.790 --> 01:41:20.690
you do twitch.tv/dispatch,
1411
01:41:24.110 --> 01:41:27.090
because I don't know how long my Twitter is gonna go for it. Dispatch.com.
1412
01:41:27.950 --> 01:41:29.010
If you want archives,
1413
01:41:29.645 --> 01:41:33.105
favorite podcast apps, you'll get updates there. Join the Citadel chat,
1414
01:41:34.045 --> 01:41:35.905
and then all the archives go to bitcointv.com
1415
01:41:36.525 --> 01:41:37.505
as well. But bitcointvdot
1416
01:41:37.880 --> 01:41:44.060
com, like, we we're still working on the kinks there. It it won't, like, notify you if you subscribe when we go live.
1417
01:41:45.375 --> 01:41:51.555
But if you subscribe to the RSS feed on bitcoin tv.com when the archive gets posted afterwards, it will notify you then.
1418
01:41:52.415 --> 01:41:57.410
So just things to be aware of if you if you wanna keep listening to dispatch. If you don't, that's fine.
1419
01:41:59.310 --> 01:42:04.915
But but, you know, we're at we're at the hour and 40 minute mark. I you know, before we,
1420
01:42:06.494 --> 01:42:13.040
like, wrap up, I wanna talk to you more about, like, what you think the future of Bitcoin privacy looks like. Because, like, right
1421
01:42:14.860 --> 01:42:16.140
now right now, the goal
1422
01:42:17.980 --> 01:42:20.000
you know, one of the key aspects of Bitcoin
1423
01:42:21.355 --> 01:42:27.535
is that it's extremely hard to change. It's a key aspect of the value prop. And and why is that important that Bitcoin's hard to change?
1424
01:42:28.235 --> 01:42:29.455
It's important because
1425
01:42:30.870 --> 01:42:33.770
if it's easy to change, then a malicious entity
1426
01:42:34.230 --> 01:42:39.690
will change it for the negative, and the stability is extremely important. This just robustness of Bitcoin.
1427
01:42:41.155 --> 01:42:42.935
So as a result, I mean,
1428
01:42:43.475 --> 01:42:46.535
unless we get, like, burned really, really fucking hard,
1429
01:42:47.510 --> 01:42:55.290
some kind of edge case, I just don't I don't think there'll ever be any kind of real significant privacy improvements on the base layer.
1430
01:42:56.230 --> 01:42:56.730
So
1431
01:42:58.075 --> 01:42:59.055
that's fine,
1432
01:43:00.155 --> 01:43:01.935
but operating under that conclusion,
1433
01:43:03.035 --> 01:43:07.550
the best we have going for us is to try and improve it on the app layer,
1434
01:43:10.090 --> 01:43:22.405
and make it so that you can use Bitcoin privately in a relatively easy way that doesn't cost you much more than using it in a nonprivate way that is not much more difficult than using it in a nonprivate naive way,
1435
01:43:23.540 --> 01:43:25.240
based on how apps interact
1436
01:43:25.700 --> 01:43:26.520
with Bitcoin.
1437
01:43:27.220 --> 01:43:29.480
And what I really wanna see is I wanna see
1438
01:43:30.534 --> 01:43:36.235
this distinction between, you know, so called privacy wallets, things like Samura or Wasabi or JoinMarket,
1439
01:43:37.770 --> 01:43:51.525
kind of go away. Like, I think, like, all Bitcoin wallets should incorporate privacy best practices. They should be thinking about this when they're developing things. I think BTCPay has done a really good job about this. I mean, BTCPay, I had the whole conversation with Pavel
1440
01:43:53.170 --> 01:43:59.989
about receiving donations in a relatively easy privacy preserving way, and that was not positive. That was not possible really,
1441
01:44:00.832 --> 01:44:03.385
not at least not an easy way before BTCPay
1442
01:44:03.765 --> 01:44:07.145
existed. Right? And we saw the central point of failure in BitPay.
1443
01:44:08.740 --> 01:44:12.840
They came in with KYC. They came in with horrible policies. They supported BCash.
1444
01:44:14.020 --> 01:44:15.400
The community got burned,
1445
01:44:15.780 --> 01:44:20.485
and BTCPay was born. Since then, we have things like Satsail. We have CypherpunkPay.
1446
01:44:21.825 --> 01:44:25.845
You know, we have BIP 47 now supported by 2 wallets. Hopefully, we see more.
1447
01:44:27.340 --> 01:44:30.400
And then also on top of that, you have, like, the layer 2 stuff,
1448
01:44:31.500 --> 01:44:32.560
things like lightning
1449
01:44:33.100 --> 01:44:34.800
and and and whatnot.
1450
01:44:35.885 --> 01:44:40.945
And this is why I said earlier that I always feel like a LARP kind of when I talk about these things
1451
01:44:41.725 --> 01:44:51.820
because I'm not a programmer, and I'm not, you know, necessarily building these things myself. I am not building these things myself. I provide feedback. I'm a user. I try and support monetarily. I try and
1452
01:44:52.375 --> 01:44:53.835
have open discussion about
1453
01:44:54.135 --> 01:44:58.155
feedback and improving these products and building support for these products.
1454
01:44:59.255 --> 01:45:06.060
I, you know, I have open stats where, like, we're we're trying to fund devs. We have Bitcoin Dev list. We're trying to fund devs. I personally fund devs.
1455
01:45:06.600 --> 01:45:08.940
We have all the open source initiatives at the conference.
1456
01:45:09.595 --> 01:45:14.655
But, ultimately and I say all this because I always get accused of saying being a LARP when I say things like this,
1457
01:45:15.515 --> 01:45:17.375
and also because I feel like one.
1458
01:45:19.770 --> 01:45:21.150
It really does feel
1459
01:45:21.930 --> 01:45:22.430
like
1460
01:45:23.530 --> 01:45:27.630
privacy is, like, the last thing on most people's minds when it comes to Bitcoin.
1461
01:45:28.445 --> 01:45:29.665
It feels like
1462
01:45:31.965 --> 01:45:35.085
it feels like most Lightning developers could really
1463
01:45:36.120 --> 01:45:44.060
they don't even think about it. They don't even really consider the privacy implications. It feels like most wallet developers don't think about them. It feels like influencers
1464
01:45:44.440 --> 01:45:45.659
attack, you know,
1465
01:45:46.605 --> 01:45:49.985
one of the few like, I I'm not saying, like, samurai is, like,
1466
01:45:50.365 --> 01:45:52.865
super nice on Twitter. They're fucking assholes on Twitter.
1467
01:45:53.810 --> 01:46:11.145
But it feels like they get attacked all the time for, like, not being private enough because, you know, you can use it without using your own full node, and then you use their node, but it defaults to Tor when most wallets don't default to Tor where they have coin control, where most wallets don't have coin control, where they don't have they don't take custody, they don't have KYC,
1468
01:46:11.610 --> 01:46:14.510
while the major lightning wallets have KYC and the
1469
01:46:15.050 --> 01:46:17.789
and a lot of people are most people are coming in through KYC.
1470
01:46:18.250 --> 01:46:21.715
I mean, the major lightning wallets are custodial, and most people are coming in through KYC.
1471
01:46:22.094 --> 01:46:25.955
And it just feels like there's just not that much focus on privacy in the Bitcoin space.
1472
01:46:27.770 --> 01:46:28.590
And I just
1473
01:46:29.210 --> 01:46:30.810
like, what is what are we
1474
01:46:31.370 --> 01:46:35.310
what what is the next 5 years look like for Bitcoin privacy? Like, what what,
1475
01:46:35.905 --> 01:46:39.365
ideally, what is the optimistic take? Give me your optimistic take
1476
01:46:40.385 --> 01:46:42.085
on people using Bitcoin privately.
1477
01:46:44.560 --> 01:46:45.060
Yeah.
1478
01:46:46.240 --> 01:46:50.020
You know, I do preparations before podcasts, but
1479
01:46:50.800 --> 01:46:53.220
I was really trying hard to think
1480
01:46:53.565 --> 01:46:56.385
strategically about next 5 years and what are
1481
01:46:56.925 --> 01:46:59.825
5 most likely scenarios that will play out.
1482
01:47:00.845 --> 01:47:01.085
And,
1483
01:47:04.750 --> 01:47:05.650
if I am,
1484
01:47:10.005 --> 01:47:14.105
Yeah. That's a disappointment. I couldn't come up with any really optimistic scenario
1485
01:47:16.405 --> 01:47:19.700
because the most optimistic scenario for me
1486
01:47:20.719 --> 01:47:22.739
is that we start with,
1487
01:47:23.920 --> 01:47:28.845
names from ground up. Go back to what it is was, like, 2012
1488
01:47:29.225 --> 01:47:30.925
when Yeah. Well, that's not true.
1489
01:47:31.385 --> 01:47:31.885
Gavin
1490
01:47:32.265 --> 01:47:40.740
and what's the name of Mike Hern. They were like, oh, you you can't use names. You need to dox yourself in order to contribute to Bitcoin Core.
1491
01:47:42.640 --> 01:47:43.140
Yeah.
1492
01:47:44.375 --> 01:47:46.395
Like, go back and change that because
1493
01:47:49.415 --> 01:47:50.715
I would like
1494
01:47:51.470 --> 01:47:56.610
to, to see me first way, way, way more like NIB developers in Bitcoin core,
1495
01:47:56.910 --> 01:47:59.410
but it's, it's hard to do that,
1496
01:48:01.655 --> 01:48:05.755
without getting the whole, yeah, public persona going on podcasts,
1497
01:48:07.255 --> 01:48:09.675
being presentable face of Bitcoin
1498
01:48:10.140 --> 01:48:10.640
development,
1499
01:48:11.179 --> 01:48:12.640
which has its benefits.
1500
01:48:14.460 --> 01:48:15.360
And I
1501
01:48:17.645 --> 01:48:19.824
it's an interesting strategy. But
1502
01:48:20.685 --> 01:48:25.344
the most optimistic scenario definitely would be that that we normalize
1503
01:48:26.290 --> 01:48:28.310
NIMs in Bitcoin core development,
1504
01:48:30.130 --> 01:48:30.630
work.
1505
01:48:31.250 --> 01:48:36.525
I mean, I will actually look a little bit into it, building a shadowy supercoder team,
1506
01:48:37.065 --> 01:48:40.605
but also not make one team, but make multiple teams.
1507
01:48:41.224 --> 01:48:45.370
And then also normalize everything else that that you are saying that,
1508
01:48:47.130 --> 01:48:50.030
there is community wide support for,
1509
01:48:51.050 --> 01:48:56.475
coin selection, for coin join that we as a community are fighting this
1510
01:48:57.255 --> 01:48:58.395
insane regulation
1511
01:48:58.775 --> 01:49:00.795
in in a robust way,
1512
01:49:01.255 --> 01:49:01.994
and that
1513
01:49:03.340 --> 01:49:06.320
it's just all this stuff that should be normalized is normalized.
1514
01:49:07.340 --> 01:49:10.400
Way more likely scenario that I see is is
1515
01:49:12.065 --> 01:49:13.525
we'll just see more of
1516
01:49:14.145 --> 01:49:16.005
a sailor approach, which,
1517
01:49:16.705 --> 01:49:17.205
unfortunately,
1518
01:49:17.745 --> 01:49:24.380
he was public few times about, yeah, working with regulators, regulating preserving Bitcoin more as an investment
1519
01:49:24.840 --> 01:49:27.260
because that future still leaves
1520
01:49:28.195 --> 01:49:30.935
a lot of space for privacy. It's just
1521
01:49:31.795 --> 01:49:32.275
is it
1522
01:49:33.395 --> 01:49:34.455
it's not
1523
01:49:34.915 --> 01:49:35.415
maximizing
1524
01:49:36.240 --> 01:49:38.980
the number of people that are enjoying those?
1525
01:49:39.440 --> 01:49:47.425
You know, privacy is a is a fun way to be able to some people can I mean, people can use Bitcoin privately today? Yes. Like, don't get me wrong. Like
1526
01:49:48.225 --> 01:49:54.790
and I think it's achievable. Like, I I think I think the current tools we have right now are better than they've ever been in the past.
1527
01:49:56.290 --> 01:49:58.469
Both summary and join market are great.
1528
01:49:59.975 --> 01:50:04.155
Try and use them. Use your own using your own node is easier than ever.
1529
01:50:05.655 --> 01:50:07.435
A lot of the wallets we have
1530
01:50:07.880 --> 01:50:10.620
besides Bitcoin core like, Bitcoin Core is a great wallet.
1531
01:50:12.200 --> 01:50:20.284
It could use some UX improvements, but it's a good wallet. Sparrow's a great wallet. BlueWallet is a great wallet if you use it with your own node, same with Sparrow.
1532
01:50:22.860 --> 01:50:27.440
Moon is is is awesome for beginners in terms of UX, but, like,
1533
01:50:28.460 --> 01:50:31.840
the overwhelming majority of people are coming in. They're coming in through KYC.
1534
01:50:33.025 --> 01:50:37.364
They're being fully surveilled in a way that the cash based economy didn't surveil them,
1535
01:50:37.824 --> 01:50:42.244
and they just don't even realize the trade off they're making. They just don't even realize
1536
01:50:43.650 --> 01:50:49.110
they don't even realize how much privacy they're giving up. They're just not even aware they're blissfully ignorant to it.
1537
01:50:49.575 --> 01:50:53.595
And, like, if you if you follow the sailor's school of thought down that line,
1538
01:50:55.495 --> 01:51:00.960
like, I mean, there's no reason to ban Bitcoin in that situation because just 90% of users are completely captured.
1539
01:51:03.820 --> 01:51:06.800
And they I don't even know if that's a better situation.
1540
01:51:08.725 --> 01:51:11.465
It's definitely not a better situation than a cash based economy.
1541
01:51:13.525 --> 01:51:17.305
Listen. It is a better situation economy anymore. So
1542
01:51:18.329 --> 01:51:20.409
It it is a better situation than,
1543
01:51:21.130 --> 01:51:21.630
CBDCs,
1544
01:51:22.010 --> 01:51:31.145
man. It's it's it is a better situation because when we are talking about, you can do this today, you can do this today. I mean, this is a link from your own page
1545
01:51:31.765 --> 01:51:35.330
about, hey. You can always go to a local meetup and buy,
1546
01:51:36.750 --> 01:51:38.290
Bitcoin non cable
1547
01:51:38.670 --> 01:51:42.915
ATMs too. I think people are sleeping on the ATMs. They're gonna get, we just
1548
01:51:43.375 --> 01:51:48.755
saw the UK banned a bun I think it was the UK banned a bunch of ATMs or banned all their ATMs.
1549
01:51:49.850 --> 01:51:52.909
But in a lot of places, especially in America at least,
1550
01:51:53.449 --> 01:51:56.409
you can still you can still buy Bitcoin at ATMs,
1551
01:51:56.945 --> 01:52:00.485
with just a phone number, and you can use a burner phone number. So,
1552
01:52:01.505 --> 01:52:03.765
and even if you don't use a burner phone number,
1553
01:52:04.300 --> 01:52:06.000
you know, everything has trade offs.
1554
01:52:06.860 --> 01:52:16.755
Using your regular phone number is definitely way better than, you know, providing a selfie and your passport and your Social security number and your bank account information, your home address and all that other shit.
1555
01:52:18.655 --> 01:52:19.155
Yes.
1556
01:52:19.909 --> 01:52:20.349
And,
1557
01:52:20.790 --> 01:52:24.869
this then brings us back to what you were saying is, is by the time that,
1558
01:52:25.429 --> 01:52:28.330
conflict starts, it's already too late. So
1559
01:52:29.585 --> 01:52:32.965
I would say, man, just like keep preaching because for people,
1560
01:52:33.265 --> 01:52:36.565
then people will realize that it's not only about,
1561
01:52:37.665 --> 01:52:38.690
number go up.
1562
01:52:39.170 --> 01:52:42.150
It's about having a stack of Sats
1563
01:52:42.610 --> 01:52:45.030
that is not, you know, no KYC.
1564
01:52:45.810 --> 01:52:47.510
And that in 10 years
1565
01:52:48.375 --> 01:52:49.435
frees you completely.
1566
01:52:50.535 --> 01:52:55.900
You know? Like, you you're free to transact while everyone else will be, like, cbdcs,
1567
01:52:56.600 --> 01:52:57.900
CBDCs are coming.
1568
01:52:58.520 --> 01:53:01.100
It's it's not something that we can stop.
1569
01:53:01.400 --> 01:53:03.100
Right. I mean, I I don't think CBDCs
1570
01:53:03.400 --> 01:53:06.185
are a threat to Bitcoin. I mean, obviously, Bitcoin is better than
1571
01:53:06.565 --> 01:53:09.385
that. It is better, but what what
1572
01:53:09.765 --> 01:53:22.580
you are worried about and, like, it's a worry that I share, but I look at it, you know, may maybe it's some I'm old. I'm uncle rock star. I'll die soon. But it's like, you can't wish more for people than they wish for themselves.
1573
01:53:23.185 --> 01:53:25.045
That that's just realization
1574
01:53:25.505 --> 01:53:26.965
that that after
1575
01:53:27.745 --> 01:53:28.245
being
1576
01:53:28.865 --> 01:53:31.445
idiotic altruist for most of my life,
1577
01:53:31.770 --> 01:53:37.550
I've I've just accepted it. So I am still altruist, but I try to focus my efforts
1578
01:53:37.929 --> 01:53:41.145
toward, like, who are the people that want my help?
1579
01:53:41.445 --> 01:53:44.665
To me, it's not it's not you know? I I
1580
01:53:44.965 --> 01:53:54.010
I'm a strong believer that Bitcoiners should have options. I think one of the beauties of an open permissionless system is that people can use it however the fuck they want. If people wanna use it, you know,
1581
01:53:54.950 --> 01:53:55.530
in a,
1582
01:53:56.390 --> 01:53:57.210
like, a
1583
01:53:57.725 --> 01:53:58.864
completely controlled
1584
01:53:59.165 --> 01:54:00.145
way where
1585
01:54:00.525 --> 01:54:09.500
they maybe get some kind of inflation hedge, but they're basically just asking permission from their government and from corporations for and they're holding a custodial, so be it.
1586
01:54:11.160 --> 01:54:15.180
I'm I'm more coming at it from, like, the builder perspective,
1587
01:54:16.205 --> 01:54:16.945
right, where
1588
01:54:17.725 --> 01:54:23.905
we need, like, we need to have the tools we need to have the tools there so when people get burned and they realize the need,
1589
01:54:24.340 --> 01:54:25.719
they can use the tools.
1590
01:54:26.500 --> 01:54:28.599
And there's just, like I mean, you see,
1591
01:54:29.780 --> 01:54:31.320
I mean, you see, like, $1,000,000,000
1592
01:54:32.315 --> 01:54:35.455
hedge funds or venture funds coming into the space,
1593
01:54:35.835 --> 01:54:42.094
and they put it into, like, NFTs and all the garbage and stuff. And then, like, the privacy projects are, like,
1594
01:54:42.510 --> 01:54:44.850
struggling by, like, on on fucking
1595
01:54:46.590 --> 01:54:50.690
yeah. I'm not even gonna say pennies. Like, I'm sat on bare barely any funding,
1596
01:54:51.335 --> 01:54:54.075
you know, barely any support, barely any testing,
1597
01:54:54.935 --> 01:54:55.995
and it's like
1598
01:54:57.015 --> 01:55:01.050
it's like we'll be like, it feels like I just want us to be ready
1599
01:55:01.670 --> 01:55:03.450
when people realize the need.
1600
01:55:04.310 --> 01:55:05.370
That's that's
1601
01:55:05.670 --> 01:55:06.170
where
1602
01:55:07.514 --> 01:55:17.440
my concern and focus is, is on that, not necessarily convincing people of the need. I think they'll be I think they'll just get burned, and they'll they'll get convinced eventually. Like, they're
1603
01:55:18.160 --> 01:55:21.460
that's where we're going. We're going to the point where everyone's gonna get burned,
1604
01:55:22.240 --> 01:55:28.245
and they'll figure it out. But I just want like, I want the tools to be ready because building out the tools at that point,
1605
01:55:30.465 --> 01:55:33.860
especially if we need any kind of little soft forks or stuff,
1606
01:55:35.360 --> 01:55:43.625
or, like, any kind of liquidity. Like, a lot of privacy tools rely on this idea of privacy loves company, that you you need other people using it.
1607
01:55:44.885 --> 01:55:46.185
These things take time.
1608
01:55:46.565 --> 01:55:47.385
Right? And,
1609
01:55:48.245 --> 01:55:51.610
I mean, and if we're gonna talk about specifically Bitcoin privacy,
1610
01:55:52.070 --> 01:55:53.530
like, look up timing analysis.
1611
01:55:53.830 --> 01:55:54.949
Like, all the
1612
01:55:55.750 --> 01:56:01.145
and you see it happen with all the big hacks and stuff. Like, if they if they rush and they get impatient,
1613
01:56:02.645 --> 01:56:05.784
they get hit with timing analysis, which is this idea that,
1614
01:56:06.180 --> 01:56:10.120
you know, if if you're if you're doing things in a predictable time,
1615
01:56:12.020 --> 01:56:18.065
if you send all your if you use Coin Join, but you send all your CoinJoin transactions at the same exact time with the same amount of denominations,
1616
01:56:19.405 --> 01:56:20.945
it's probably the same person.
1617
01:56:22.480 --> 01:56:24.820
So these things take time and preparation,
1618
01:56:25.200 --> 01:56:25.700
and
1619
01:56:26.880 --> 01:56:29.460
and then there's, like, this whole other level of just
1620
01:56:30.275 --> 01:56:35.815
we've been groomed to be surveilled all our lives that people just, like, practice self censorship
1621
01:56:36.515 --> 01:56:38.695
where they just don't even wanna talk about it.
1622
01:56:39.210 --> 01:56:40.750
They don't even wanna have the conversation
1623
01:56:42.730 --> 01:56:47.550
because they're scared of the the ramifications, so they just don't even talk about it.
1624
01:56:48.865 --> 01:56:52.965
Well, we are talking about in fact. Yeah. But,
1625
01:56:53.505 --> 01:56:56.085
I mean, we get way more if we were talking about
1626
01:56:57.010 --> 01:56:59.110
how Bitcoin is designed to pump forever,
1627
01:57:00.050 --> 01:57:01.510
number go up, or
1628
01:57:02.930 --> 01:57:04.230
on chain metrics,
1629
01:57:05.410 --> 01:57:06.150
some bullshit,
1630
01:57:06.515 --> 01:57:12.055
Like, we We would get funding. Engagement right now. We would get funding. Yeah. We could just launch a company.
1631
01:57:13.795 --> 01:57:14.295
Well,
1632
01:57:15.235 --> 01:57:21.290
There's, like, what like, every every day you hear about, like, a brand new KYC on ramp that's valued at, like, $15,000,000.
1633
01:57:21.990 --> 01:57:24.730
You know? It's like, how many KYC on ramps do we need?
1634
01:57:26.675 --> 01:57:29.015
Citadel dispatch presented by Chainalysis.
1635
01:57:30.435 --> 01:57:31.735
I know. We
1636
01:57:32.115 --> 01:57:34.980
do. I I actually yeah. I I wanna see that one.
1637
01:57:38.180 --> 01:57:39.060
I don't know. I,
1638
01:57:41.620 --> 01:57:46.875
number 2 was, yeah, we we are talking about it. And then number 1, I I think, that,
1639
01:57:47.515 --> 01:57:53.150
turn your dirty fiat into bit by Bitcoin flyer workshop just became more interesting because
1640
01:57:53.690 --> 01:57:56.430
I'm going to force you to come up with
1641
01:57:56.890 --> 01:57:58.090
a wish list of,
1642
01:57:58.975 --> 01:58:05.635
soft forks in Bitcoin and stuff. Like, I don't I have a wish list of soft forks. I'm just saying, like, if if something require it.
1643
01:58:06.150 --> 01:58:07.370
You should because
1644
01:58:07.910 --> 01:58:08.570
I actually,
1645
01:58:10.070 --> 01:58:27.380
I feel pretty good where we are. It's just that you're right. I'm I'm I'm looking at the Bitcoiner dot guide and and instructions there. It's fucking horrible. Like, use Bitcoin privately here. Like, you have to like, you say, stick to buy Bitcoin. Your sticker should say
1646
01:58:28.260 --> 01:58:29.720
your stamp should be, like,
1647
01:58:30.180 --> 01:58:33.755
you need, like, 10 bills to put the instructions on how they should onboard.
1648
01:58:35.415 --> 01:58:39.275
No. Why not? The stamp should say buy bitcoin no k y c dot com.
1649
01:58:40.970 --> 01:58:44.030
Yes, please. Please bring a stamp that says like citadel,
1650
01:58:45.050 --> 01:58:46.750
no kyc only dot com.
1651
01:58:47.415 --> 01:58:52.715
Yes. Please do. Like, you were bringing that that stamp? Q and a runs that site.
1652
01:58:53.735 --> 01:59:04.770
Yeah. I would I like I try and reduce random. I try and reduce the amount of guides now because Bitcoin q and a is just such a legend. And at guides, you have to update all the time, so I just try and link to his guides as much as possible.
1653
01:59:06.025 --> 01:59:12.205
Matt, actionable discussion. You need to come with that stamp to to Bitcoin conference. I mean, it's already a.
1654
01:59:12.739 --> 01:59:16.040
I did a serial dispatch with Bitcoin q and a,
1655
01:59:17.780 --> 01:59:22.965
that is evergreen. That is, like, bit it's called Bitcoin for beginners, but it's more advanced
1656
01:59:23.825 --> 01:59:27.685
than, like, a tip typical Bitcoiners guide, and we try and go through everything,
1657
01:59:28.750 --> 01:59:29.970
that people should consider.
1658
01:59:30.830 --> 01:59:38.505
I will ask made a point in the chat, by the way, that that that code that discount code is open source, all caps, one word.
1659
01:59:41.045 --> 01:59:46.505
I would ask you which episode that was with Bitcoin q and a, but you're not Stephane. It's 43.
1660
01:59:47.270 --> 01:59:51.930
Oh my god. It's the only it's the one that I have to remember because I show it all the time.
1661
01:59:52.710 --> 01:59:55.050
Like, when I meet people on the streets, I say sidodisbad.com/cd
1662
01:59:56.435 --> 01:59:56.935
43.
1663
01:59:58.034 --> 01:59:58.534
Well,
1664
01:59:58.915 --> 02:00:03.494
you have new episode to show now. What is it? 59. Cildispatch.com/
1665
02:00:05.000 --> 02:00:05.660
c d
1666
02:00:06.200 --> 02:00:06.700
59.
1667
02:00:07.240 --> 02:00:10.200
Yeah. It's been a it's been a long run, this dispatch. It's,
1668
02:00:10.920 --> 02:00:16.685
we're over we're over 200 hours of of of Bitcoin discussion free, no pay walls,
1669
02:00:17.385 --> 02:00:18.765
no ads, no sponsors.
1670
02:00:19.305 --> 02:00:21.565
It can be done. It is being done.
1671
02:00:23.450 --> 02:00:23.770
And,
1672
02:00:24.970 --> 02:00:25.870
we have
1673
02:00:26.650 --> 02:00:28.670
actionable items after this
1674
02:00:29.385 --> 02:00:29.885
funeral
1675
02:00:30.585 --> 02:00:31.085
workshop.
1676
02:00:32.744 --> 02:00:34.605
Yeah. I look forward to kicking in Miami.
1677
02:00:35.945 --> 02:00:36.925
Digital identity.
1678
02:00:38.429 --> 02:00:38.929
Yeah.
1679
02:00:40.670 --> 02:00:47.565
This was great, Rockstar. I mean, we're hitting the we're at the 2 hour point. This is where I like to wrap up. I thank you for joining us again.
1680
02:00:48.265 --> 02:00:53.340
I always enjoy having conversation with you. I hope the freaks enjoyed it as much as I enjoyed it.
1681
02:00:54.380 --> 02:00:57.599
Before I wrap up, I always like to give our guests
1682
02:00:57.980 --> 02:00:59.840
a chance for final thoughts.
1683
02:01:00.540 --> 02:01:02.639
So you wanna hit us with some final thoughts?
1684
02:01:11.215 --> 02:01:11.955
He's speechless.
1685
02:01:16.370 --> 02:01:17.110
I am
1686
02:01:17.650 --> 02:01:18.150
because
1687
02:01:19.865 --> 02:01:21.805
I just enjoy being with you,
1688
02:01:22.185 --> 02:01:23.965
you know, all of you.
1689
02:01:24.505 --> 02:01:26.285
You are my tribe, and
1690
02:01:27.450 --> 02:01:28.830
we're going to make it.
1691
02:01:30.890 --> 02:01:37.230
You know, 10 years ago, we were talking about, yeah, where Bitcoin will be, what will happen? Well,
1692
02:01:37.645 --> 02:01:38.705
look at us now.
1693
02:01:39.645 --> 02:01:43.985
We thought when, when we were here, we will make it like now we need to keep pushing.
1694
02:01:44.765 --> 02:01:45.265
So
1695
02:01:45.780 --> 02:01:46.760
as I say,
1696
02:01:47.539 --> 02:01:50.920
see you in Miami and let's let's distribute
1697
02:01:51.699 --> 02:01:53.079
not only by Bitcoin
1698
02:01:54.115 --> 02:01:56.455
dirty fiat, but no kyc.com.
1699
02:01:57.715 --> 02:01:58.775
Like no kyconly.com.
1700
02:01:59.555 --> 02:02:00.855
I don't know what no kyc.com
1701
02:02:01.235 --> 02:02:02.055
links to.
1702
02:02:03.740 --> 02:02:04.240
Nokyconly.com.
1703
02:02:06.380 --> 02:02:07.840
Should probably check when no kyc.com
1704
02:02:08.300 --> 02:02:09.120
links to.
1705
02:02:10.565 --> 02:02:14.665
Let's go. But it definitely goes to Coinbase. Oh, no. The site can't be reached.
1706
02:02:16.645 --> 02:02:24.480
I think that's a great point to end it on. I appreciate you. I appreciate all the work you do. We didn't even really talk about btzpay server, but especially over at btzpay,
1707
02:02:24.780 --> 02:02:26.320
but also at strike.
1708
02:02:27.815 --> 02:02:28.715
To the freaks,
1709
02:02:29.735 --> 02:02:30.475
don't get
1710
02:02:31.095 --> 02:02:31.595
overwhelmed.
1711
02:02:32.055 --> 02:02:33.035
Don't get disillusioned.
1712
02:02:33.575 --> 02:02:34.475
Small improvements
1713
02:02:34.855 --> 02:02:35.355
help.
1714
02:02:35.800 --> 02:02:37.420
You don't have to do it all at once.
1715
02:02:38.520 --> 02:02:44.140
Take account for yourself, your tribe, your family. Try and improve yourself. Get rid of social media.
1716
02:02:45.125 --> 02:02:47.625
Don't rely on Google so much, unplug the Alexa.
1717
02:02:50.645 --> 02:02:53.625
Literally, all the little improvements really do help,
1718
02:02:54.170 --> 02:02:57.870
And at scale, as more of us do them, it helps everyone.
1719
02:03:00.250 --> 02:03:03.675
You are making a difference, and I'm sorry that I'm a little bit,
1720
02:03:04.554 --> 02:03:05.614
fatigued recently.
1721
02:03:06.635 --> 02:03:07.375
I am
1722
02:03:11.230 --> 02:03:16.130
I am bullish on you guys, and I'm bullish on our on our family. We're gonna fucking kill it.
1723
02:03:16.830 --> 02:03:18.050
We got you, Matt.
1724
02:03:19.605 --> 02:03:21.865
Cheers. Thank you, Rockstar. Thank you, Freaks.
1725
02:03:22.405 --> 02:03:24.905
I will see you next oh, one more thing.
1726
02:03:25.285 --> 02:03:26.985
Rockstar, when are you getting to Miami?
1727
02:03:29.450 --> 02:03:30.350
April 6th.
1728
02:03:31.050 --> 02:03:32.270
Should I make it earlier?
1729
02:03:35.450 --> 02:03:36.270
That Tuesday
1730
02:03:37.364 --> 02:03:42.025
is April 5th. April 5th is when BitDevs is gonna be happening,
1731
02:03:44.085 --> 02:03:44.824
and then
1732
02:03:45.560 --> 02:03:53.100
which is funny because April 6th at the conference, the open source stage is supposed to be, like, modeled after bit devs, so it'll be, like, 2 bit devs in a row. But,
1733
02:03:53.825 --> 02:03:56.485
the father of bitdevs himself from New York bitdevs,
1734
02:03:56.865 --> 02:04:00.405
will be running bitdevs in Miami on April 5th.
1735
02:04:01.120 --> 02:04:06.260
Right before that, we will be doing a live sale dispatch at the same venue as BitDevs.
1736
02:04:09.095 --> 02:04:14.955
So if you are going to Miami, try and carve out that day as well if you wanna come join us for the live dispatch.
1737
02:04:15.680 --> 02:04:21.380
I don't know who the guests are gonna be yet. That's why I was asking Rockstar if he was gonna be there. I will be there.
1738
02:04:22.800 --> 02:04:26.955
But I have 4 mics set up. I have a really nice venue set up.
1739
02:04:27.975 --> 02:04:32.074
I think it's it's gonna be a 100,000 sats a person, like, $40 a person.
1740
02:04:35.540 --> 02:04:39.160
And once it covers cost, the remainder is just gonna go into beer.
1741
02:04:40.660 --> 02:04:44.605
So if you're interested in that, just stay tuned. I'll probably
1742
02:04:45.305 --> 02:04:48.125
I gotta spin up a BTC pay for it. I haven't yet.
1743
02:04:50.025 --> 02:04:51.965
I'll have it I'll have it up by
1744
02:04:52.330 --> 02:04:53.070
by next
1745
02:04:53.610 --> 02:04:59.230
week. So just, pay attention to that and just be aware that that April 5th, there'll be an in person dispatch,
1746
02:05:00.225 --> 02:05:08.965
in Miami right before bid devs, and then you can just roll into bid devs afterwards if you if you wanna do that as well, which I strongly I strongly advise. But devs is fucking awesome.
1747
02:05:11.460 --> 02:05:16.200
Awesome. Well, much love, brother. Thanks again for joining us, and, thank you to all the freaks. Cheers.
1748
02:05:17.460 --> 02:05:17.960
Cheers.
1749
02:07:18.380 --> 02:07:19.520
It'll take me away.
1750
02:07:21.500 --> 02:07:22.719
It'll take me away.
1751
02:07:24.815 --> 02:07:25.955
Take me away.
1752
02:09:06.215 --> 02:09:07.355
Much love, freaks.
1753
02:09:08.614 --> 02:09:12.155
Hope you enjoyed that rip as much as I did. Rockstar's a legend.
1754
02:09:13.429 --> 02:09:15.770
I'll see you on Tuesday for another dispatch.
1755
02:09:17.510 --> 02:09:18.010
Thursday,
1756
02:09:18.389 --> 02:09:22.250
it's gonna be an in person rip with me and Marty for a rabbit hole recap,
1757
02:09:25.355 --> 02:09:28.815
and then going to BitDevs in Austin. And then we have
1758
02:09:29.435 --> 02:09:30.415
Bitcoin takeover
1759
02:09:31.400 --> 02:09:32.220
on Friday,
1760
02:09:33.720 --> 02:09:35.580
in Austin at the Bitcoin Commons.
1761
02:09:36.440 --> 02:09:42.114
Me and Marty are hosting that. We have an insane lineup of panelists that will be joining us. It's almost like
1762
02:09:43.455 --> 02:09:47.635
a super meetup or a mini conference. I don't know. Like, 200 people.
1763
02:09:48.655 --> 02:09:49.395
Be good.
1764
02:09:49.860 --> 02:09:50.100
And,
1765
02:09:50.900 --> 02:09:53.400
stay on both. Love you all. Cheers.
NOTE
Transcription provided by Podhome.fm
Created: 3/17/2024 4:28:27 PM
Duration: 7796.14
Channels: 1
1
00:00:00.960 --> 00:00:04.980
2
00:00:06.000 --> 00:00:11.075
The prices jumped on that, release, and now the details of the actual executive order
3
00:00:11.535 --> 00:00:13.235
are out and even
4
00:00:13.615 --> 00:00:40.269
you can remove it a lot. It's like when I delete a tweet, you know, when I think better of something. Someone's got it already. I it's like too late. You know, once you've done it, you've done it. And I saw the executive order, and it was like, you know, exactly what you would have thought. We wanna make it safe for investors. We wanna lead in innovation, but, we wanna make sure we have the right kind of regulation that protects people. We wanna, you know, protect the environment. All the normal things that but not very specific,
5
00:00:40.570 --> 00:00:42.910
I don't think, about how you're gonna do all that.
6
00:00:44.345 --> 00:00:51.245
7
00:00:51.630 --> 00:00:53.890
calling for just that in the crypto industry.
8
00:00:54.270 --> 00:01:05.295
The White House is directing a government wide audit of the risk and potential benefits focused on a list of 6 key priorities, and those are consumer and investor protection, financial stability,
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illicit finance,
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US competitiveness,
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equity and inclusion,
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and a host of other factors like privacy, security, and climate. Now treasury is tasked with developing policy recommendations for the industry as well as issuing a report on the future of money and on payment systems. The commerce department would take the lead on creating a framework for the best ways to use the technology,
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and the administration is encouraging regulators
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to provide sufficient
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oversight and safeguard against systemic risk. Now this order calls understanding how a central bank digital currency might work urgent, but a senior administration official said that foreign CBDC do not pose a threat to the dollar. The White House said that they were having extensive engagement with the industry before announcing this directive,
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and in fact, they started calling those weekend meetings crypto Sundays.
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So as you mentioned, the initial response
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to the,
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inaccurately posted or incorrectly posted treasury
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statement was positive. But now that folks can dig the details, we'll see if that sentiment holds. It just seems
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It's your boy Odell here for another Citadel dispatch.
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Citadel dispatch is an interactive live show about Bitcoin distributed systems privacy and open source software.
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That clip you saw
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just previously was about the executive order,
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that appears to be a massive nothing burger,
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and they were talking about it on CNBC. That was the US executive order.
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If you're joining us here live, you're either joining us on Twitch at twitch.tv/sitoldispatchorviabitcointv.com.
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If you just click civil dispatch after you go to bitcointv.com,
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you can see the stream there as well,
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and on Twitter.
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Dispatches also broadcast to your favorite podcast app after the show with all archives
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video archives posted to bitcoin tv.com.
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I wanna thank all the freaks who continue to support the show, keeping dispatch a 100% audience funded without ads or sponsors, purely focused on actionable Bitcoin discussion.
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Really could not do it without you.
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Also wanna thank all the freaks who joined us in the live chat, which is self hosted on Matrix.
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You can get to that live chat by going to citadel dispatch.com
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and clicking that big citadel chat link,
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on the site.
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Our live chat now has over 900 ride or die Bitcoiners
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that are constantly having really great
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discussion throughout the week, not just on Tuesdays for the show. So be sure to join us.
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I know it might sound complicated because
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the the name is called Matrix, and I said the word self hosted, but it's actually rather simple. So if you just click that link and and follow the steps, I I have faith that you can figure it out. Like I said, over 900 other people figured it out.
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The two easiest ways to support the show is either going to ciel dispatch.com
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and,
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clicking our BTC pay link there. You can you can send,
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either on chain Bitcoin or Bitcoin via lightning.
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I also have,
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my samurai payment there and my which links to my BIV 47 payment code. If you know what that means,
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it means you can send me on chain payments via either Samura1 or Sparrow.
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The other easy way to support the show, which a lot of freaks seem to be enjoying, is podcasting 2 point o apps. They they work like a regular podcasting app,
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but you're able to load them up with sats and choose how many sats per minute you think,
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dispatch is worth. And then as you're listening,
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it will literally stream sats directly to my node. Every day of the week, I, like, open up.
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I I I go and look at my node, and I just see,
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you know, 1 sat, 2 sat just coming in every minute.
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It's it's not necessarily much, but it's, extremely rewarding,
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just just seeing you guys listening and supporting at the same time.
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And on that note,
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it's come to my attention that,
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since dispatch is one of the most popular shows on fountain podcasts
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so my 2 favorite podcasting 2.0 apps are fountain podcasts
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and Breeze Wallet, and it's come to my attention that Fountain Podcast is running a promotion.
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So if you listen to any episode of dispatch through fountain podcast and you're a new user,
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I believe they are going to send you a 1,000 free sats,
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and one random person at the end of the month will get 50,000 sets.
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So just keep that in mind if you haven't checked out fountain. One disclaimer on that fountain thing is right now as it stands,
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it is a custodial wallet, so don't put too much money into it,
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and it does require an email address. So consider the privacy implications of providing an email address, maybe make a burner email or something like that.
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Okay.
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With all that said, I know I was a little rough around the edges on that intro.
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This is still dispatch 59.
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We have the 1 and only rockstar dev,
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famously known for his work on BTC pay server and now strike here to join us for the 2nd time ever.
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What's up, rock star? How's it going?
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here to
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encourage and inspire, as I said, in our exchange when you were announcing this
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podcast.
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you were on originally?
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and RTL and all that stuff.
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And then
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by 12 Citadel dispatch.com/cd12.
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maybe we should play some clip of him singing, and then, you know, it can inspire you and me to be better, like, do more. If you haven't seen Stefan,
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Yeah.
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I feel like
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there's been a lot of darkness lately in terms of, like, the news and current events
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and things that impact sovereignty and privacy,
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So I have a feeling that this conversation is gonna get
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pretty solemn really quickly. Not hopeless,
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but solemnly optimistic.
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So, like, on that note, like, it's kinda nice to, you know, start it up with a bit of of cheer.
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So I think bringing up Stephan's beautiful voice is is one aspect of that, but another is right before he went live.
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I know you're a relatively new American,
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but it appears that the US government
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what?
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did
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the most effective thing they've done in my whole lifetime, which was repeal their horrible policy of time changes twice a year.
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So now we will not have time changes anymore is my understanding.
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and, I'm pretty sure it passed the house and the senate, and we're good to go. In typical US fashion or typical government fashion, it's permanent daylight savings time. They couldn't just do permanent time,
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but at least there'll be no time switch.
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this podcast with the live chat, live audience. See? Like, we are we get connected in the real time. Just said? Yeah. It's, like, only senate does not house yet. Yeah.
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No, no, it will,
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it is passing the house as well, man. Just you see the future and that's why also people love you. And that's why it's so hard on you because you see the best possible futures
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and then the rest of us can't live up to that standard. But as I said, no worries.
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I'm here to talk about all of that because you you scared me, man. You you said,
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government and I immediately thought we were going to, like, discuss this bill, whatever it is.
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about,
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regulating
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crypto currencies? Like, what is that
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the the one you played in the intro video?
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Biden, like, pulled to Justin Sun. He did an announcement of an announcement.
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You you wanna you wanna bet? So if we do get rug pulled if we do get rug pulled on this, I'm gonna say that,
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that that that's on me, freaks, and I apologize.
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I just believe in your visions, man. And I believe in you, so
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I know what's what's happening. And
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I as you said, I'm involved with BTC based server. I'm involved with Strike. I can recognize
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correct vision early on. So
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fingers crossed.
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I guess my fact checking was absolutely abysmal then, but I was rushing to get dispatch up. So
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there's that. So let's talk about this executive order. Do you have any thoughts on it? Did you look into it at all? Or
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it doesn't say Bitcoin once in the whole executive order.
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my only comment is is what that,
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what is, like, rich dad, poor dad. He he was he explained it the best.
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It's like everything
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piled on and,
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doesn't make any sense. I'm telling you at this point,
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we're just living in in completely
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information
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mad world, and politicians are just announcing thing after thing after thing that doesn't mean anything.
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what is it like?
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No. I mean, ideally, I want it to be global, but if if not global, like, at least America is just all on one time zone.
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I mean, no one should be in California.
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around the world, it would be completely like crazy,
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this way what you do,
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because you would have people
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used
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7 hours later than when you got on the plane.
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the we spent 1,000,000 of years
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in
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certain
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rhythm and just changing that rhythm because it's a marginal gain for, for something like, you know, flying across.
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Isn't it a fucking pain in the ass coordinating
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what what time zone you're talking about and stuff? Like, what time is it here? What time is it there?
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the tools, like,
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every time zone, use calendar.
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It's just you use tool to abstract that in a much better way, because
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otherwise, when when I would say, oh, it's 9 AM here and I'm just waking up, then that would have completely different
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meaning for people that would have, oh, I'm waking up at 2 AM. So no.
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I use eastern time and UTC time when I when I announce dispatch.
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You go with your standard and see how many people will join you because,
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when it comes to using UTC,
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that's one of the engineering best practices because you always use UTC. The
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front end developers do the whole load, detect in which time zone the device is, and
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display it nicely for the user. We have a freak saying,
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My personal belief is that block height should be past times,
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and in the when you're talking about present or future times, you should be using UTC because block height, you you know, it's a poison distribution or
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poisson. I don't know how to pronounce it. So you don't really know when the block's gonna come in. You need, like, an
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actual objective time period for when you're gonna meet someone. You can't be like, I'm gonna meet you in 3 blocks, and you don't know when they're gonna come in.
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the way humanity advances is through those paradigm shifts and,
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simply
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clocks and times,
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and in time zones, they are too embedded into our current system. So if we do come up with, like, completely new system,
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I am more for that. But,
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going back to the topic of this podcast, like that's exactly no. But that's
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and it's extremely
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hard, and and we are optimizing
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beyond the point of usefulness. So
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yeah.
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Mhmm. Okay. So executive order to me was just,
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was was mostly just like politicians patting themselves on the back saying, like, oh, like, we're taking this, quote, unquote, crypto thing seriously. Look. We have an executive order. We're doing things. But
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it was really a a nothing burger in terms of, like, actual
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practice.
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on on the opposite side,
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I mean,
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would you agree that just this whole idea
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of of even, like,
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taking the time to
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maybe worry about politics or try and change politics is
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pretty much a wasted effort, and the focus should be more on
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on on building code and running code and
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and actionable changes that we can do as individuals.
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I do think we all need to recognize
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the
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impact that politicians and politics have on our daily life,
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but absolutely, yeah, work in direction where
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it doesn't really. I mean, you know, you just
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donate, like,
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US is so great as you because you already doxed me as a new American man. Like, back in Europe, we call that corruption. Here, it's like
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lobbying,
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whatever it is. Corruption. Right? It's just a different word. It's such a better word, man. It's like lobbying for a goal. No. It's it's beautiful. Like, I'm telling you marketing, and then how you wrap it is, like, all the difference.
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yeah, don't, don't even get me started because I'll just go off rails. But for me,
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it's just recognizing
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what has impact on you and,
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trying to build an environment in which everything that impacts you
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is, is, is kind of you, you opted into it
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because that's,
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that's in a nutshell, why, why also privacy is so important.
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Whatever is public
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and involves
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everyone.
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It
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suddenly you have so many things to worry about,
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but things that are private that are between certain parties, it's much more elegant system.
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And,
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yeah, I'm looking forward to 2 of us discussing
256
00:20:55.120 --> 00:20:57.380
the history of, like, how how we,
257
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where we started,
258
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what was the development, how we got here because
259
00:21:04.865 --> 00:21:07.524
it all also has to do with the speed of information.
260
00:21:09.780 --> 00:21:10.280
Privacy
261
00:21:11.860 --> 00:21:14.680
like, when people talk about privacy and how things were better
262
00:21:15.220 --> 00:21:19.215
back in the day, I always respond. It wasn't, it's just that
263
00:21:19.995 --> 00:21:20.735
if you
264
00:21:21.195 --> 00:21:28.159
did something terrible, I like made a stupid decision. It wasn't on internet for everyone to, to record it
265
00:21:28.460 --> 00:21:32.159
and be like with a crypto deleted tweets on whatever.
266
00:21:32.615 --> 00:21:37.115
Now now it's just information is so much faster. Information can be killed,
267
00:21:37.495 --> 00:21:38.395
and privacy
268
00:21:39.095 --> 00:21:41.995
importance of privacy grows in, like, order of magnitude,
269
00:21:43.159 --> 00:21:44.059
including the
270
00:21:44.679 --> 00:21:49.275
acts by politicians. So look really looking forward to discussing that with you.
271
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272
00:21:55.915 --> 00:21:56.975
I mean, information
273
00:21:58.590 --> 00:22:02.210
is is inherently viral, and it's more viral than ever
274
00:22:02.670 --> 00:22:04.690
in this connected world that we have.
275
00:22:07.605 --> 00:22:16.184
But but the we're kind of in a situation right now, right, where we have a flood of information. Right? And it's hard. Yeah. A lot of times, it's hard to verify sources.
276
00:22:17.110 --> 00:22:21.770
I mean, you just saw I just did a very lazy, I guess, a very lazy job of verifying my sources
277
00:22:23.785 --> 00:22:29.645
for this daylight savings thing, but you have, like, you know, these all caps Twitter accounts that just post things without sources.
278
00:22:32.040 --> 00:22:39.340
Then people retweet them, then other people copy their tweet or reuse that tweet as a source, and then there's Photoshop and
279
00:22:40.495 --> 00:22:41.795
VideoShop or whatever,
280
00:22:42.175 --> 00:22:43.555
video deep fakes.
281
00:22:44.735 --> 00:22:47.315
It's it's almost harder than ever to actually
282
00:22:48.770 --> 00:22:49.750
verify information.
283
00:22:51.250 --> 00:22:53.590
Yep. And you just so much noise.
284
00:22:56.115 --> 00:23:00.915
285
00:23:01.235 --> 00:23:02.775
You said it yourself. Like,
286
00:23:03.530 --> 00:23:05.309
not everything is a psy op,
287
00:23:05.610 --> 00:23:06.350
and it's
288
00:23:06.730 --> 00:23:09.950
making critical tinker thinkers like you burn out.
289
00:23:10.409 --> 00:23:12.669
290
00:23:13.645 --> 00:23:14.785
291
00:23:16.365 --> 00:23:18.145
PSIOP is not PSIOP
292
00:23:18.525 --> 00:23:22.305
rather. It's just that information velocity is too much.
293
00:23:24.059 --> 00:23:31.520
Yeah. It's it's what you said about like being a critical thinker, which you are. You are, you are one of the best we have in Bitcoin,
294
00:23:32.785 --> 00:23:46.330
but the critical thinkers need time to process those, you know, important questions like who, what, where, when, why, how. Like, you need to ask, okay, who benefits from this? Then you need to think about it.
295
00:23:46.630 --> 00:23:47.130
But
296
00:23:47.510 --> 00:23:59.485
297
00:24:00.770 --> 00:24:01.890
298
00:24:02.929 --> 00:24:09.674
that's the beauty of of privacy of Bitcoin, really, because it allows you to to disconnect
299
00:24:10.054 --> 00:24:10.554
and
300
00:24:10.895 --> 00:24:11.395
not
301
00:24:11.735 --> 00:24:15.115
worry, especially when we do get on on Bitcoin standard.
302
00:24:15.815 --> 00:24:17.274
No longer will we
303
00:24:17.640 --> 00:24:21.340
need to follow. K. Yeah. Politicians just gathered together
304
00:24:21.880 --> 00:24:25.179
and got 21% increase. I mean, is that verified?
305
00:24:25.645 --> 00:24:27.665
Because I found that one phenomenal.
306
00:24:28.285 --> 00:24:28.785
Like
307
00:24:29.565 --> 00:24:30.945
with Bitcoin, 21,000,000,
308
00:24:31.325 --> 00:24:33.905
but they also increased their salaries by 21%.
309
00:24:37.260 --> 00:24:39.280
310
00:24:40.060 --> 00:24:40.560
311
00:24:41.180 --> 00:24:43.360
BTC pins. Can we get
312
00:24:44.154 --> 00:24:45.348
fact checkers?
313
00:24:46.234 --> 00:24:48.121
314
00:24:48.794 --> 00:24:50.015
I didn't hear that.
315
00:24:50.850 --> 00:24:51.350
316
00:24:52.610 --> 00:24:59.750
317
00:25:00.465 --> 00:25:02.805
they should go down by the inflation rate.
318
00:25:04.465 --> 00:25:06.565
That I feel like that would be a cool rule.
319
00:25:07.580 --> 00:25:13.280
No. They definitely like Watch inflation get get squashed if they if that rule ever got passed.
320
00:25:15.424 --> 00:25:22.405
So, I mean, that that's one of the I mean, you mentioned something there and and, you know, to me, that's always been one of the really cool aspects of Bitcoin
321
00:25:24.340 --> 00:25:29.320
and really just a free open source software movement in general, but just this idea of objective truth.
322
00:25:29.700 --> 00:25:31.080
Right? This idea that,
323
00:25:31.935 --> 00:25:34.915
I don't know if there's any real other objective truth,
324
00:25:36.175 --> 00:25:39.235
besides something that you can actually verify yourself
325
00:25:39.615 --> 00:25:41.520
and know that it hasn't been fucked with.
326
00:25:42.720 --> 00:25:44.340
And, you know, Bitcoin
327
00:25:44.720 --> 00:25:45.220
encapsulates
328
00:25:45.520 --> 00:25:51.060
that on even a grander scale than, I would say, other free open source software and the fact that,
329
00:25:51.995 --> 00:25:55.215
you have this idea of proof of work. Right? And you have this idea
330
00:25:55.915 --> 00:25:56.415
of
331
00:25:57.035 --> 00:26:00.175
of of that, you know, this this chain is
332
00:26:00.530 --> 00:26:03.350
is is backed by that work, and it's
333
00:26:03.810 --> 00:26:09.590
it's it hasn't been tampered with. It hasn't been fucked with. There's there's no corruption at the base level.
334
00:26:12.144 --> 00:26:12.644
335
00:26:13.505 --> 00:26:14.465
Exactly. Because,
336
00:26:16.385 --> 00:26:19.284
I have this weekly discussion with my
337
00:26:19.649 --> 00:26:24.789
most successful nephew, Jack Mallers, and we were talking about, like, what is it
338
00:26:25.570 --> 00:26:28.870
that that gives value? And it is that proof of work,
339
00:26:32.634 --> 00:26:33.695
340
00:26:34.875 --> 00:26:37.375
sorry to cut you off, from Twitch that says
341
00:26:40.550 --> 00:26:41.050
21%
342
00:26:41.350 --> 00:26:41.850
increase
343
00:26:42.630 --> 00:26:44.250
344
00:26:44.870 --> 00:26:45.370
345
00:26:46.605 --> 00:26:48.145
but I don't think it's been passed.
346
00:26:50.605 --> 00:26:57.059
Well, we will see as as our It's in the omnibus bill. You know, they, like, make these massive bills that have to pass,
347
00:26:57.760 --> 00:27:05.375
so it'll probably it'll probably get I don't know which one of them would vote against it. Like, why wouldn't, why would they vote against their own pay raise? I'm surprised they didn't make it more.
348
00:27:05.995 --> 00:27:07.855
349
00:27:08.315 --> 00:27:10.350
few shreds of credibility
350
00:27:10.730 --> 00:27:15.470
and actual altruism left, I would say, because you saw the, the, the bill
351
00:27:16.650 --> 00:27:18.030
read the bill bill
352
00:27:18.445 --> 00:27:22.785
that, that wanted to cap. Like, if your bill is like 100,
353
00:27:23.485 --> 00:27:24.305
well, 100,000
354
00:27:24.685 --> 00:27:26.545
pages, like we need at least like
355
00:27:27.250 --> 00:27:29.870
10 days to read it.
356
00:27:30.210 --> 00:27:32.789
You saw that 1 or no? Did that pass?
357
00:27:33.570 --> 00:27:46.490
358
00:27:47.450 --> 00:27:52.830
359
00:27:53.530 --> 00:27:58.705
and it passes in matter of, like, 17 hours. Like like who read that?
360
00:28:00.045 --> 00:28:01.825
361
00:28:02.650 --> 00:28:07.710
It's fucking insane. I mean, 2,000 pages is small, I think. Like, these omnibus bills are, like,
362
00:28:08.170 --> 00:28:10.110
80,000, a 100,000 pages.
363
00:28:13.195 --> 00:28:19.135
364
00:28:20.260 --> 00:28:25.160
failures because otherwise, like this whole world with information velocity
365
00:28:25.860 --> 00:28:33.534
is definitely going to hell. I mean, we, we are just jumping from one thing to the other. Like you, you start looking at the world and it's like
366
00:28:34.155 --> 00:28:35.455
1 giant teenage
367
00:28:35.835 --> 00:28:36.335
ADA
368
00:28:37.260 --> 00:28:38.640
ADHD, man. Like whatever,
369
00:28:40.380 --> 00:28:45.615
whatever goes, basically it's that latest meme. I support the current thing. It's just
370
00:28:46.095 --> 00:28:47.955
exhausting for everyone. And and
371
00:28:48.655 --> 00:28:50.035
I do expect yeah.
372
00:28:50.655 --> 00:28:51.155
Well,
373
00:28:51.775 --> 00:28:57.419
people that are in in like really have power and really have influence, really have money.
374
00:28:57.720 --> 00:29:00.755
They're already out of the system because this current system is
375
00:29:01.294 --> 00:29:02.515
completely unsustainable.
376
00:29:03.135 --> 00:29:03.875
It's just
377
00:29:04.975 --> 00:29:06.674
people that are in it. Don't have
378
00:29:08.040 --> 00:29:08.540
guts,
379
00:29:09.240 --> 00:29:19.885
380
00:29:20.665 --> 00:29:21.885
fatigued by it.
381
00:29:23.360 --> 00:29:30.740
382
00:29:32.795 --> 00:29:35.055
that's listening or will listen,
383
00:29:35.435 --> 00:29:36.415
and that is
384
00:29:36.875 --> 00:29:39.135
establish your new digital identity,
385
00:29:40.630 --> 00:29:45.050
which is what I will be well, I already did it. I have few,
386
00:29:45.350 --> 00:29:45.670
but,
387
00:29:47.645 --> 00:29:50.045
yeah, let's let's get that over with because,
388
00:29:50.605 --> 00:29:52.545
we mentioned Stephane in the intro.
389
00:29:52.925 --> 00:29:57.025
Yes. Big news, breaking news. We can now tweet breaking.
390
00:29:58.030 --> 00:29:59.250
Rockstar is dying.
391
00:30:00.990 --> 00:30:01.310
And,
392
00:30:02.110 --> 00:30:03.970
I was already telling you Rockstar.
393
00:30:05.365 --> 00:30:09.545
The funeral. Yes. And now date is set. It's August 13th.
394
00:30:11.365 --> 00:30:13.465
395
00:30:14.510 --> 00:30:17.230
396
00:30:17.550 --> 00:30:19.330
but I wanted to
397
00:30:20.910 --> 00:30:24.315
I wanted to formally invite you to give Eulogy,
398
00:30:26.055 --> 00:30:28.475
UTC, of course. We'll go with UTC,
399
00:30:28.935 --> 00:30:29.435
but
400
00:30:29.975 --> 00:30:32.950
formally invite you to give Eulogy. You'll be the speaker.
401
00:30:33.270 --> 00:30:36.090
Livera is singing. He's already in. Okay.
402
00:30:36.390 --> 00:30:38.230
403
00:30:38.845 --> 00:30:42.865
so you're gonna you're still gonna be around. You're just gonna be operating on the other nims.
404
00:30:43.405 --> 00:30:43.905
Right?
405
00:30:44.685 --> 00:30:45.185
406
00:30:45.565 --> 00:30:47.505
we'll see. We'll see.
407
00:30:49.200 --> 00:30:57.539
408
00:30:58.605 --> 00:31:02.145
409
00:31:02.845 --> 00:31:05.905
This is the latest hat present from
410
00:31:06.205 --> 00:31:07.185
my dear Benz.
411
00:31:08.000 --> 00:31:11.920
412
00:31:14.080 --> 00:31:18.485
as an actual thing, and I think this is this is an important exercise. I mean, it's I think
413
00:31:18.865 --> 00:31:21.845
I think people, if they haven't yet, should, you know,
414
00:31:22.545 --> 00:31:26.405
like, start getting your hands dirty, like, play around, make nims.
415
00:31:26.830 --> 00:31:29.090
Like, it doesn't have to be perfect in the beginning.
416
00:31:30.029 --> 00:31:33.490
Disposable NIMs, change them up. And when we say NIMs,
417
00:31:34.645 --> 00:31:38.585
we it's short for pseudonyms. So, you know, not your real name,
418
00:31:40.085 --> 00:31:41.304
not your real picture,
419
00:31:42.960 --> 00:31:49.060
not attached to your, you know, the Gmail address that I hope you're not using for absolutely every account you sign up to,
420
00:31:49.765 --> 00:31:54.665
not attached to your phone number that you've used since you were 10 years old,
421
00:31:56.005 --> 00:31:59.990
that is basically acts like a Social Security number and ties all your identities together.
422
00:32:00.370 --> 00:32:03.830
Like, start practicing playing around with with this as a concept.
423
00:32:04.210 --> 00:32:05.830
I mean, I think everyone should.
424
00:32:07.775 --> 00:32:14.995
But on the on the Bitcoin side, I mean, I actually wanted to talk to you about this because I was discussing this with a bunch of freaks
425
00:32:16.080 --> 00:32:19.060
in the Citadel chat, in the Matrix chat earlier today,
426
00:32:20.080 --> 00:32:25.860
in particular about the whole Wasabi thing, which, I mean, we can get to as well, but let's get to this first. Do you
427
00:32:26.195 --> 00:32:27.015
do you think
428
00:32:27.715 --> 00:32:30.294
that just as a as a industry
429
00:32:30.674 --> 00:32:33.654
in general, like, as a community in general, we just don't,
430
00:32:35.180 --> 00:32:38.800
we have too many known figures and too few NIMs.
431
00:32:39.180 --> 00:32:42.800
Like, do you especially, like, in the, like, core dev community and whatnot.
432
00:32:45.664 --> 00:32:46.644
433
00:32:47.105 --> 00:32:48.325
Because it's
434
00:32:48.945 --> 00:32:52.004
game theory is skewed toward identities.
435
00:32:53.380 --> 00:32:53.880
Like,
436
00:32:54.260 --> 00:32:58.120
how how do you even get on these podcasts
437
00:32:58.660 --> 00:33:02.040
if if you're NIM and you do want to, you know,
438
00:33:03.845 --> 00:33:09.225
preserve your privacy. And even podcast is cool, but how do you get on the stage of a conference
439
00:33:09.605 --> 00:33:10.510
and give a talk?
440
00:33:10.990 --> 00:33:13.570
Which is why I've been doing this. Figured that out.
441
00:33:14.270 --> 00:33:14.770
What?
442
00:33:15.230 --> 00:33:17.810
443
00:33:20.105 --> 00:33:22.665
444
00:33:23.305 --> 00:33:23.805
I,
445
00:33:24.345 --> 00:33:26.605
what I am doing is I have every
446
00:33:26.920 --> 00:33:32.940
public appearance like that. I am wearing a mask. It's like 2 2 in 1 because it also triggers everyone
447
00:33:33.320 --> 00:33:35.500
that's against max mask mandates.
448
00:33:36.245 --> 00:33:38.184
449
00:33:39.845 --> 00:33:46.940
like, rock star reincarnates and then dies again? You could just, like, have like, the second coming of rock star or the third coming of rock star.
450
00:33:49.400 --> 00:33:51.900
451
00:33:53.625 --> 00:34:06.780
we were I I was mentioning funeral also in the context of, like, how do you slow down that information velocity and and like dying is definitely one of the ways which I would recommend, but then also it does free you up.
452
00:34:07.320 --> 00:34:07.560
And,
453
00:34:08.565 --> 00:34:11.465
I always talk about like, okay, rockstar dev.
454
00:34:12.245 --> 00:34:20.029
And, man, I've I've had people from, like, Silicon Valley companies. Like, they're coming on a call with me, and then they will be like, ah, rock star.
455
00:34:21.210 --> 00:34:21.710
But
456
00:34:22.010 --> 00:34:27.695
it gives you opportunity to, like, tweak your identity because look at my NIM, look at your NIM.
457
00:34:27.995 --> 00:34:29.615
Like, yours is so much better.
458
00:34:29.995 --> 00:34:30.495
So
459
00:34:30.875 --> 00:34:32.870
one of the things that when I'm
460
00:34:33.270 --> 00:34:37.850
experimenting with NIMs down the road is, like, I I'm going to go with something that can
461
00:34:38.230 --> 00:34:40.730
pass by for for, like, a real name.
462
00:34:42.705 --> 00:34:44.085
463
00:34:45.185 --> 00:34:46.945
464
00:34:47.665 --> 00:34:49.745
that's the real name. I was like, no, it's not. So
465
00:34:50.480 --> 00:34:50.980
466
00:34:51.680 --> 00:34:54.820
so, I mean, one of the when you mentioned podcasts,
467
00:34:57.040 --> 00:35:01.825
I mean, one of the reasons I launched dispatch was to get more exposure to NIMs.
468
00:35:02.925 --> 00:35:05.905
It is a, you know, voice only show, no video,
469
00:35:06.260 --> 00:35:08.839
so it's more NIM friendly in in that respect.
470
00:35:10.740 --> 00:35:17.365
There is some risk of of of doxing your voice. Like, I mean, if you if you come on the, you know, Citadel dispatch
471
00:35:18.145 --> 00:35:19.444
78 or something,
472
00:35:20.224 --> 00:35:24.565
under a different NIM, like, I think it'll be pretty fucking obvious to people that it's you.
473
00:35:25.130 --> 00:35:26.990
So some NIMs, like, 6102,
474
00:35:28.089 --> 00:35:32.109
I see someone in the comments was asking about where to get burner numbers. Silent.link
475
00:35:32.490 --> 00:35:33.375
is a really
476
00:35:33.695 --> 00:35:36.515
good option that works really well that's Bitcoin only,
477
00:35:36.895 --> 00:35:38.195
doesn't take other identification
478
00:35:38.495 --> 00:35:38.995
information.
479
00:35:39.375 --> 00:35:44.220
I asked the lead dev of that to come on. He was like, I don't wanna dox my voice.
480
00:35:45.400 --> 00:35:46.860
The lead dev of cypherpunkpay.org,
481
00:35:49.640 --> 00:35:52.795
didn't wanna come on for the same reasons, But that's also why,
482
00:35:53.815 --> 00:35:55.675
I take a lot of pride in being,
483
00:35:56.695 --> 00:36:00.955
the only Live Bitcoin show with a chat that's streamed directly into,
484
00:36:01.880 --> 00:36:03.020
all of our streams
485
00:36:03.480 --> 00:36:06.540
and archived forever because it means that people can participate,
486
00:36:08.040 --> 00:36:08.860
through text,
487
00:36:09.400 --> 00:36:11.424
through the live chat. So 6102
488
00:36:11.724 --> 00:36:14.145
used to participate a lot before he
489
00:36:15.805 --> 00:36:17.505
had his digital death.
490
00:36:19.190 --> 00:36:28.410
Maybe he's still participating under a different NIM, but, that that was one of the main reasons why I started dispatch and why dispatch is set up the way it is set up.
491
00:36:28.885 --> 00:36:33.065
Conferences is is a whole different thing. I mean, I I think there is a very big,
492
00:36:36.260 --> 00:36:39.320
there's a you know, if if you care about privacy,
493
00:36:39.620 --> 00:36:45.240
it's really hard to do in person events, large in person events, period. Gigi has kind of figured it out
494
00:36:45.815 --> 00:36:48.035
to a degree with the green suit,
495
00:36:48.455 --> 00:36:55.320
but it's just everything has trade offs. Right? So you have to assess those risks, and you have to decide what you wanna do. I mean, I do think
496
00:36:55.960 --> 00:36:59.900
meeting up in person is extremely powerful. I mean, we met in person,
497
00:37:00.920 --> 00:37:04.615
what feels like a decade ago, but it was, like, 3 years ago, I think,
498
00:37:06.855 --> 00:37:16.799
And, you know, that was a you know, I had a great time with you, and I got to know you much better as a person, and we got to have conversations at pubs at 3 in the morning that you'll never have online.
499
00:37:17.500 --> 00:37:26.105
I think you can get a lot of that out of local meetups. That's why I'm big supporter of local meetups, and I think local meetups should have no video and no photo policies,
500
00:37:26.885 --> 00:37:31.030
or at least some of them, the ones that I support, I prefer that they do.
501
00:37:32.390 --> 00:37:39.210
So that's, like, a nice middle ground, I would say. And, I mean, you don't show up as, you know, don't, like, walk up to someone and be, like, this is my NIM,
502
00:37:41.625 --> 00:37:45.484
because that kinda defeats the purpose a little bit. But if you don't do that, they'll have no idea.
503
00:37:47.319 --> 00:37:49.500
504
00:37:50.359 --> 00:37:51.420
that selectively
505
00:37:51.799 --> 00:37:53.660
revealing yourself. Good. Right?
506
00:37:54.119 --> 00:38:07.940
507
00:38:08.560 --> 00:38:10.260
I was like, you should've led with that.
508
00:38:11.120 --> 00:38:15.780
509
00:38:16.625 --> 00:38:17.765
it's beautiful.
510
00:38:20.385 --> 00:38:25.365
And you were saying such a great things about, the setup for Citadel dispatch and
511
00:38:25.849 --> 00:38:29.390
their their their I'm is a problem. Look at my setup.
512
00:38:30.010 --> 00:38:30.910
Like I I'm
513
00:38:31.290 --> 00:38:34.595
you set this up for voice only, and I have such a beautiful camera and
514
00:38:44.130 --> 00:38:45.750
515
00:38:46.770 --> 00:38:48.150
money burning background
516
00:38:48.450 --> 00:38:52.630
with a silhouette of his face and body, so you can't actually see him.
517
00:38:53.265 --> 00:38:59.685
So you actually have figured out a hack to the shows that that require video. I mean, most shows nowadays, I feel like require video,
518
00:39:01.120 --> 00:39:03.060
But on dispatch, you're the exception.
519
00:39:04.960 --> 00:39:07.540
520
00:39:08.184 --> 00:39:09.224
how do you,
521
00:39:09.625 --> 00:39:12.285
build reputation? Because it's all about that.
522
00:39:12.825 --> 00:39:13.385
Right. And,
523
00:39:14.905 --> 00:39:15.405
kinda
524
00:39:16.570 --> 00:39:17.070
convention,
525
00:39:17.530 --> 00:39:21.630
normie convention is that that reputation involves a
526
00:39:22.250 --> 00:39:23.470
government issued
527
00:39:24.385 --> 00:39:28.005
ID, first name, last name, your appearance, your,
528
00:39:28.385 --> 00:39:28.625
and,
529
00:39:29.424 --> 00:39:29.924
I
530
00:39:30.224 --> 00:39:31.365
very much look
531
00:39:32.380 --> 00:39:34.480
toward that being changed because,
532
00:39:35.180 --> 00:39:39.920
hey, if I, if I gave my first name, last name, it wouldn't mean anything to
533
00:39:41.115 --> 00:39:42.815
tons of people now.
534
00:39:43.275 --> 00:39:46.494
Like they know me by, by this digital identity
535
00:39:46.795 --> 00:39:49.295
and my reputation is, is bound to that.
536
00:39:50.300 --> 00:39:54.080
So it is about figuring out that reputation building
537
00:39:55.420 --> 00:39:57.840
and, and kind of tweaking the existing
538
00:39:58.674 --> 00:40:03.654
systems and events like Bitcoin conference that's coming up to also be
539
00:40:04.115 --> 00:40:13.569
friendly in that regard because we we will need it in in the future. And then there there is also also a challenge of different mediums. Some people are better at
540
00:40:13.950 --> 00:40:18.595
presenting on stage. Some people are better at podcasts. Some people are better at writing.
541
00:40:19.055 --> 00:40:19.555
But
542
00:40:20.175 --> 00:40:22.115
the the more we can facilitate
543
00:40:22.575 --> 00:40:23.395
these different
544
00:40:23.940 --> 00:40:25.720
methods of building reputation
545
00:40:27.700 --> 00:40:28.520
in the
546
00:40:28.859 --> 00:40:29.359
the
547
00:40:29.700 --> 00:40:30.680
the the more people
548
00:40:30.980 --> 00:40:32.680
we will be able to leverage
549
00:40:32.980 --> 00:40:33.480
into,
550
00:40:34.245 --> 00:40:36.105
you know, creating better future
551
00:40:36.485 --> 00:40:36.985
because
552
00:40:38.565 --> 00:40:40.665
so many people are opting out
553
00:40:41.039 --> 00:40:43.859
out of existing systems because they're inherently
554
00:40:45.759 --> 00:40:46.259
stupid.
555
00:40:47.440 --> 00:40:50.660
You know, like you need to submit a credit
556
00:40:52.305 --> 00:41:07.210
557
00:41:07.895 --> 00:41:09.175
I mean, you see, obviously,
558
00:41:09.815 --> 00:41:14.795
most freaks have probably tried to rent an apartment, and they asked you, like, your whole fucking life to rent an apartment.
559
00:41:17.480 --> 00:41:23.020
Like, all these and and there's so many different things where, like, you can't even it's very difficult to live a normal life
560
00:41:24.655 --> 00:41:30.515
without handling, you know, handing this this personal identifiable information everywhere you go.
561
00:41:31.589 --> 00:41:38.970
Even things as, you know, like the driver's license process, or if you wanna register to vote or something, like, privacy is the last thing,
562
00:41:39.795 --> 00:41:44.535
that those policies take in mind, and and in fact, they tend to do the exact opposite.
563
00:41:44.915 --> 00:41:48.695
Traveling nowadays, you know, we talk about travel restrictions getting worse.
564
00:41:50.180 --> 00:41:53.320
Well, it's, like, pretty much impossible to, you know,
565
00:41:53.620 --> 00:41:56.680
travel by plane right now without just pulling your pants down
566
00:41:57.935 --> 00:41:59.795
and giving them absolutely everything,
567
00:42:00.095 --> 00:42:01.875
especially if you're crossing a border.
568
00:42:03.775 --> 00:42:06.420
It's a fucking mess, but I will say on one positive
569
00:42:08.420 --> 00:42:10.920
note that I've noticed, just to fall onto the kids these days memes,
570
00:42:12.420 --> 00:42:21.255
I don't know if you've noticed this because it's I mean, I don't I don't think it's really a a topic that neither of us really follow deeply, but what I've noticed is
571
00:42:23.590 --> 00:42:24.090
esports
572
00:42:24.870 --> 00:42:30.730
esports and drone racing, which is what a lot of kids do now. It's like a big it's it's
573
00:42:31.030 --> 00:42:32.250
really growing industry.
574
00:42:32.885 --> 00:42:35.865
Like, the best players in the world of both of those
575
00:42:36.484 --> 00:42:39.305
tend to be NIMs. They default to NIMs.
576
00:42:40.700 --> 00:42:44.320
Now once they've become, like, top 10 in the world, they're on, like, ESPN
577
00:42:44.620 --> 00:42:45.440
7 and
578
00:42:45.820 --> 00:42:47.280
their face is on screen.
579
00:42:47.855 --> 00:42:54.275
But up until that point, they're nims, and when they announce them, they're like, this guy just won the championship. They don't say, like,
580
00:42:54.789 --> 00:42:57.690
you know, Paul Jones. They say, you
581
00:42:58.309 --> 00:43:01.049
know, rabid tiger or whatever his name is.
582
00:43:02.915 --> 00:43:03.815
583
00:43:04.115 --> 00:43:16.990
584
00:43:18.650 --> 00:43:19.150
585
00:43:20.945 --> 00:43:22.405
Yeah. Because to
586
00:43:22.785 --> 00:43:23.285
me,
587
00:43:23.585 --> 00:43:27.125
that will be the also the measure of quality of the world,
588
00:43:27.665 --> 00:43:32.650
and well, not the world. Well, specific environment with which we are talking about.
589
00:43:33.270 --> 00:43:33.770
Because,
590
00:43:34.870 --> 00:43:37.210
I'm telling you, I I so long for
591
00:43:37.675 --> 00:43:40.655
America of nineties. I wish I was here back then
592
00:43:41.035 --> 00:43:41.535
because
593
00:43:44.610 --> 00:43:46.630
it it's just like all these
594
00:43:46.930 --> 00:43:47.430
additional
595
00:43:47.730 --> 00:43:49.750
things that were added
596
00:43:50.050 --> 00:43:57.625
597
00:43:57.925 --> 00:43:58.985
of the world. Right?
598
00:44:00.405 --> 00:44:01.705
599
00:44:02.330 --> 00:44:07.470
600
00:44:08.090 --> 00:44:12.030
COVID, I mean, none of it has to be a lot of it, like, a lot of it isn't
601
00:44:13.115 --> 00:44:17.214
necessarily just government policies. Right? Like, so so you have
602
00:44:17.835 --> 00:44:18.655
people voluntarily
603
00:44:21.350 --> 00:44:22.250
people voluntarily
604
00:44:22.550 --> 00:44:34.395
hand out all this information for convenience. Right? It's a trade off between privacy and convenience. They walk around with phones that are tracking them. They have wiretaps in their house. They're sending their DNA out to services so they can see,
605
00:44:34.935 --> 00:44:37.675
a nice pie chart of of where they come from.
606
00:44:39.119 --> 00:44:43.700
And and we have this confluence of things where governments have always tried to track,
607
00:44:45.040 --> 00:44:45.859
their subjects.
608
00:44:46.885 --> 00:44:54.665
They might call you citizens, but they've always tried to track their subjects because surveillance gives you the ultimate control. Knowing things about people gives you the ultimate control.
609
00:44:55.000 --> 00:44:57.099
But on top of that now, we have companies
610
00:44:57.960 --> 00:45:02.220
so on the on the government side, you know, we're we're we're, like,
611
00:45:02.615 --> 00:45:06.234
essentially treated like data slaves, where they're just trying to
612
00:45:07.095 --> 00:45:08.954
take as much information as possible,
613
00:45:09.890 --> 00:45:12.550
think what we're thinking, use it against us,
614
00:45:13.330 --> 00:45:22.945
constantly be a step ahead, and corral us. And then on the corporate side, we're like cattle or crops. They're like harvesting our data for monetization.
615
00:45:23.965 --> 00:45:30.600
They make tons of money off of us. We're like a re we're a resource to them. We're a resource that can be harvested, our private information.
616
00:45:31.140 --> 00:45:33.160
And then governments use that
617
00:45:34.714 --> 00:45:35.214
monetization
618
00:45:35.515 --> 00:45:47.819
scheme, all that data that the comp the companies are getting, and they it amplifies everything. It's just, you know, massive circular feedback loop. And we didn't, you know, even without 911 or whatever, like, we didn't have that,
619
00:45:49.880 --> 00:45:53.025
it it just it wasn't there. That that mechanism,
620
00:45:53.725 --> 00:45:56.945
that whole corporate infrastructure of tracking people,
621
00:45:58.045 --> 00:46:01.265
through digital means just didn't really exist yet.
622
00:46:03.090 --> 00:46:05.270
623
00:46:05.810 --> 00:46:07.650
Yeah. That's where I think a lot of your
624
00:46:08.290 --> 00:46:12.184
how do you say the conversation will turn solemn. Right?
625
00:46:14.164 --> 00:46:17.385
That's where I think, like, a lot of your sadness is coming
626
00:46:18.085 --> 00:46:22.480
through because as a critical thinker, you see all of this as you're like cattle.
627
00:46:22.859 --> 00:46:27.599
We absolutely are information cattle. As individuals, we like generate information
628
00:46:28.140 --> 00:46:28.800
and once
629
00:46:30.145 --> 00:46:31.525
systems and technology
630
00:46:31.985 --> 00:46:34.965
allow it, you can now start harvesting
631
00:46:35.985 --> 00:46:40.290
information from individuals and then get into advanced scenarios of
632
00:46:40.590 --> 00:46:42.370
predicting what will happen,
633
00:46:42.910 --> 00:46:44.050
controlling individuals.
634
00:46:46.685 --> 00:46:48.625
As as the latest meme says, yeah, MPCs.
635
00:46:49.085 --> 00:46:50.225
It is literally
636
00:46:50.605 --> 00:46:51.105
functioning
637
00:46:51.405 --> 00:46:55.345
now to the point where you don't even need to do too much preparation.
638
00:46:55.870 --> 00:46:57.650
You just start new wave
639
00:46:58.030 --> 00:46:59.650
of media and news articles,
640
00:47:00.030 --> 00:47:00.530
and
641
00:47:00.990 --> 00:47:01.730
it's like you
642
00:47:02.350 --> 00:47:05.895
download like, upload firmware into millions of people
643
00:47:06.275 --> 00:47:08.775
and get them to react in a certain way.
644
00:47:09.555 --> 00:47:11.575
I, one of your favorite tweets,
645
00:47:12.035 --> 00:47:18.960
that you tweeted out, like, I loved it. It was like, some of you will trust the government until your pronouns are was were.
646
00:47:20.300 --> 00:47:20.800
So
647
00:47:21.579 --> 00:47:22.079
so
648
00:47:23.215 --> 00:47:32.595
it it is absolutely like that. And it's it's not only government because at least with government, you can organize some kind of movement, like get them out of the office or
649
00:47:32.960 --> 00:47:34.900
get media on your end. It's about
650
00:47:35.200 --> 00:47:35.700
corporation.
651
00:47:36.160 --> 00:47:36.980
It's about
652
00:47:37.520 --> 00:47:38.099
that cyberpunk
653
00:47:38.400 --> 00:47:40.080
future, which is, you know,
654
00:47:40.560 --> 00:47:45.705
high technology, low standard of living, which is we're what we are seeing more and more. And
655
00:47:48.000 --> 00:47:54.180
656
00:47:54.640 --> 00:47:58.225
in the comments below letting me know that was, were, is, aren't pronouns.
657
00:47:59.005 --> 00:47:59.505
Oh,
658
00:48:00.445 --> 00:48:05.025
659
00:48:05.910 --> 00:48:13.369
660
00:48:14.935 --> 00:48:15.255
661
00:48:15.975 --> 00:48:21.995
662
00:48:22.450 --> 00:48:24.150
platform. I agree that it's a
663
00:48:24.930 --> 00:48:26.950
a tool used to monetize people,
664
00:48:27.730 --> 00:48:33.515
and to a degree control people. And I I would say that maybe in the beginning, it wasn't as much used for control.
665
00:48:35.815 --> 00:48:40.270
You know, I like to believe that the original ideas were was to, you know,
666
00:48:40.650 --> 00:48:43.310
make information more open and communication more open.
667
00:48:44.250 --> 00:48:46.430
It is to me, it's a balancing act.
668
00:48:46.744 --> 00:48:52.125
I use Twitter pretty much only professionally. I only use it for Bitcoin things,
669
00:48:53.144 --> 00:48:56.280
and I try and limit my usage as much as possible. Me, personally,
670
00:49:03.240 --> 00:49:03.685
a
671
00:49:04.085 --> 00:49:05.785
Twitter is the last man standing.
672
00:49:06.245 --> 00:49:10.665
I could give 2 shits about all the Twitter clones that are replacing it. I won't even sign up for Mastodon.
673
00:49:11.890 --> 00:49:15.670
I'm at the point where and I'm completely shadowbanned on Twitter now.
674
00:49:16.930 --> 00:49:17.170
675
00:49:17.890 --> 00:49:18.790
Not completely.
676
00:49:19.810 --> 00:49:20.470
677
00:49:20.925 --> 00:49:22.705
they had me down pretty brutally.
678
00:49:23.245 --> 00:49:26.525
I had to like, other people complain about being shadowbanned, but,
679
00:49:27.880 --> 00:49:32.380
you know No. You're in the bubble now. Break my they break my tweet threads and shit.
680
00:49:34.440 --> 00:49:36.059
So, like, I'm I'm I'm
681
00:49:36.755 --> 00:49:38.615
pretty close to being done with it.
682
00:49:39.474 --> 00:49:41.015
It's just a question of
683
00:49:41.635 --> 00:49:42.135
of
684
00:49:42.755 --> 00:49:44.694
of of basically, you know, bootstrapping
685
00:49:45.075 --> 00:49:46.369
dispatch, dispatch, bootstrapping
686
00:49:46.990 --> 00:49:48.049
the Citadel chat,
687
00:49:49.230 --> 00:49:53.970
having a tribe that you can communicate with and discuss things with and build things with,
688
00:49:55.174 --> 00:49:59.674
so that you can be relatively immune and you can actually opt out. Like, I will say,
689
00:50:00.214 --> 00:50:02.960
I don't even remember how many years ago I deleted my
690
00:50:03.440 --> 00:50:05.540
Instagram. It was a long fucking time ago.
691
00:50:06.000 --> 00:50:08.580
But, I mean, there was a whole set of friends
692
00:50:09.280 --> 00:50:09.940
and family
693
00:50:10.240 --> 00:50:10.980
that just
694
00:50:11.520 --> 00:50:12.020
disappeared.
695
00:50:12.585 --> 00:50:16.365
They were just they are not in my life anymore when I left that platform,
696
00:50:18.665 --> 00:50:19.565
and that was
697
00:50:19.890 --> 00:50:21.430
a pretty rash decision.
698
00:50:22.210 --> 00:50:28.535
Like, that was just a woke up one morning. I was like, this is all getting deleted. I was like, who the what the fuck am I doing?
699
00:50:29.174 --> 00:50:32.635
So with Twitter, I'm just being a little bit more calculated about it,
700
00:50:33.015 --> 00:50:37.355
but, fortunately, I feel very grateful that I do feel like I found my tribe. I do feel like,
701
00:50:38.760 --> 00:50:40.540
I could get banned from Twitter tomorrow,
702
00:50:40.840 --> 00:50:46.380
and I could still have the discussions I wanna have. I could still support the projects I wanna support. I could still
703
00:50:47.224 --> 00:50:48.445
build things, and
704
00:50:49.145 --> 00:50:57.720
I I think that's a very rewarding thing when when you realize that that decentralized platforms can't necessarily cut you off and cancel you. They can cut you off from themselves,
705
00:50:58.340 --> 00:51:00.200
from their platform, but they can't,
706
00:51:03.060 --> 00:51:03.800
they can't
707
00:51:04.404 --> 00:51:06.105
significantly disrupt your life.
708
00:51:07.924 --> 00:51:08.904
709
00:51:09.444 --> 00:51:11.065
this world would have been
710
00:51:11.800 --> 00:51:13.340
much less rich
711
00:51:13.960 --> 00:51:20.715
if you follow through with your cutting off social media. Like you and me will never met probably.
712
00:51:21.335 --> 00:51:21.835
I,
713
00:51:22.135 --> 00:51:27.730
one of my hobbies is going back to Matt Adele tweets from like 2016,
714
00:51:28.109 --> 00:51:33.329
20 7. Like, I don't know how far back you go, but I love reading your tweets when it's like 0 likes.
715
00:51:34.035 --> 00:51:35.815
And you're advocating for something,
716
00:51:36.755 --> 00:51:37.255
which
717
00:51:37.635 --> 00:51:38.375
in retrospect
718
00:51:38.675 --> 00:51:40.375
makes so much sense, but
719
00:51:40.675 --> 00:51:44.640
it is like, that's the balancing act you you're talking about.
720
00:51:46.300 --> 00:51:46.700
I,
721
00:51:47.420 --> 00:51:48.640
last few years,
722
00:51:50.460 --> 00:51:56.224
unfolded for me the way they did, because I created a Twitter account to
723
00:51:56.605 --> 00:51:57.665
mostly to retweet,
724
00:51:58.125 --> 00:52:02.385
Nicholas's tweets when when I joined BTC based server team.
725
00:52:02.880 --> 00:52:04.820
But from there, as my
726
00:52:05.920 --> 00:52:06.420
persona,
727
00:52:06.960 --> 00:52:12.425
current persona grew, like, it it opened so many doors. I mean, I wouldn't be in strike today if
728
00:52:13.305 --> 00:52:13.965
I wasn't
729
00:52:14.425 --> 00:52:15.645
rockstar developer,
730
00:52:15.945 --> 00:52:16.505
you know,
731
00:52:16.985 --> 00:52:17.725
on, on Twitter.
732
00:52:18.425 --> 00:52:18.925
So
733
00:52:19.880 --> 00:52:22.220
I would advise everyone to,
734
00:52:22.680 --> 00:52:23.180
to,
735
00:52:24.680 --> 00:52:28.300
absolutely be conscious on, on, you know, privacy
736
00:52:29.434 --> 00:52:29.934
and
737
00:52:31.115 --> 00:52:43.670
like not being the information cattle. If you can turn the situation around and make that platform be be a cattle of yours, absolutely do it. And if you see you are losing the battle and, and you're,
738
00:52:44.450 --> 00:52:45.350
you, you're
739
00:52:45.875 --> 00:52:48.055
giving more than you're getting,
740
00:52:49.555 --> 00:52:51.734
then, yeah, like, get get out.
741
00:52:52.194 --> 00:52:55.494
742
00:52:55.940 --> 00:53:02.120
and Eric Hughes in the cyberpunk manifesto, like, he specifically says, like, privacy is not secrecy.
743
00:53:02.924 --> 00:53:08.065
Privacy is the ability to selectively reveal yourself to the world and choose what you reveal. Right?
744
00:53:08.444 --> 00:53:08.944
And
745
00:53:09.644 --> 00:53:18.059
when you start to talk about sovereignty, when you start to talk about privacy, it is this balancing act. It's a balancing act of trade offs. It's a balancing act of constantly
746
00:53:20.095 --> 00:53:22.595
being aware of your surroundings and your adversaries
747
00:53:23.695 --> 00:53:27.315
and and what information is being collected about you and used against you.
748
00:53:27.775 --> 00:53:28.755
And it's important
749
00:53:29.290 --> 00:53:31.390
for people to realize this because
750
00:53:32.010 --> 00:53:32.510
ultimately,
751
00:53:32.970 --> 00:53:34.750
especially in the privacy community,
752
00:53:35.290 --> 00:53:38.109
and I would say even in the sovereignty community,
753
00:53:39.105 --> 00:53:40.085
there's a
754
00:53:41.025 --> 00:53:50.270
there's a lack of of open public discussion about it. And why is that? That's because if someone really truly values their privacy, this is the dichotomy,
755
00:53:51.050 --> 00:53:57.154
they're not gonna participate in those platforms. They're not gonna talk about it. You don't see influencers talking about privacy.
756
00:53:57.694 --> 00:53:59.154
People that care about privacy
757
00:53:59.454 --> 00:54:05.875
and sovereignty are living on their own land, not, you know, with their tribe, not talking to anybody publicly about it.
758
00:54:07.380 --> 00:54:18.755
You talked about, you know, there is an inherent issue with NIMS. This is human psychology. This fact the fact of the matter is that people wanna see faces. They wanna see names. They wanna feel like they can relate to someone.
759
00:54:20.175 --> 00:54:28.450
So in in a lot of ways, it is very much an uphill battle, and I I I always knew this was the case. I've lived it as the case,
760
00:54:29.710 --> 00:54:35.945
and I kind of stumbled into doxing my face and something that I always regretted doing. I go back and forth because I
761
00:54:36.724 --> 00:54:38.505
I feel like it has made a difference,
762
00:54:38.805 --> 00:54:39.305
but
763
00:54:39.640 --> 00:54:43.260
I also, you know, regret doxing my face because my face is forever.
764
00:54:43.640 --> 00:54:45.660
Names can be changed. Faces can't,
765
00:54:46.835 --> 00:54:50.295
or maybe they can in the future, but it sounds expensive, and I like my face.
766
00:54:51.955 --> 00:54:55.255
But I once I did stumble into that,
767
00:54:55.780 --> 00:55:01.400
I made it a mission to try and elevate NIMS because I think that people that are in public positions
768
00:55:02.420 --> 00:55:03.240
have a unique
769
00:55:04.494 --> 00:55:04.994
unique
770
00:55:05.295 --> 00:55:13.619
potential, unique ability to elevate NIMs that they that they notice have a good reputation, that they notice are building good things. People like 6102,
771
00:55:14.079 --> 00:55:16.259
people like Diverter. We have Diverter in the comments.
772
00:55:17.039 --> 00:55:17.779
Econo Alchemist,
773
00:55:19.625 --> 00:55:25.005
you know, all of these guys, like, they're they're doing good work, open arms, you know,
774
00:55:26.105 --> 00:55:36.700
Chris Belcher. Like, they're they're they're doing good work, and they need to be amplified, and other people aren't amplifying it. So if you're already in that position, if you already have a public platform, if you already have a semi public platform,
775
00:55:37.225 --> 00:55:41.165
like, helping and supporting these people that are working really hard behind the scenes
776
00:55:43.385 --> 00:55:51.460
is extremely actionable, and I I would I I like to think extremely effective. And and one of the things I've been noticing, just to bring it back fully around,
777
00:55:52.640 --> 00:55:59.015
is this is something, like I said, that I've lived through, that I've seen it happening, that I expected it to unfold,
778
00:55:59.395 --> 00:56:01.575
but it really does feel like as
779
00:56:02.190 --> 00:56:03.970
Bitcoin is becoming more mainstream,
780
00:56:05.230 --> 00:56:07.730
the voices of privacy and sovereignty
781
00:56:08.270 --> 00:56:11.170
are going to continuously get drowned out.
782
00:56:11.855 --> 00:56:14.115
And we're basically in a situation where
783
00:56:15.855 --> 00:56:18.194
the fundamentals of Bitcoin are under attack.
784
00:56:19.214 --> 00:56:19.714
And
785
00:56:20.710 --> 00:56:26.570
if you just do a cursory glance at Bitcoin Twitter or something, it looks like everything is rosy and great
786
00:56:27.030 --> 00:56:31.005
because the influencers just like number go up and everything's gonna be fine,
787
00:56:32.585 --> 00:56:45.730
because that's what gets you engagement. What gets you engagement is not telling people that they should practice personal responsibility or they shouldn't trust you or they should do their own research or they should use their own shit. What gets you engagement is is getting cattle to
788
00:56:46.185 --> 00:56:47.005
to pretty
789
00:56:47.385 --> 00:56:56.600
much trust you completely and do everything you say and rely on you and tell them that they're completely absolved to personal responsibility and everything will be okay.
790
00:57:00.180 --> 00:57:04.040
791
00:57:04.405 --> 00:57:06.985
persona to broadcast information privacy.
792
00:57:08.245 --> 00:57:08.905
And then
793
00:57:09.525 --> 00:57:13.545
starting to understand that, especially with mainstream conditioning of people
794
00:57:14.569 --> 00:57:17.069
not to, okay. You know, I already
795
00:57:17.530 --> 00:57:22.829
scanned my idea, uploaded it to open a Facebook account. Like, why does it matter? Say
796
00:57:23.165 --> 00:57:23.665
some
797
00:57:24.205 --> 00:57:25.025
call. So
798
00:57:26.845 --> 00:57:28.225
but I don't know. I
799
00:57:28.845 --> 00:57:35.440
especially when talking with you and and then talking with people who heard me talking with you,
800
00:57:36.380 --> 00:57:37.920
we are we are inspiring
801
00:57:38.619 --> 00:57:39.680
others. And,
802
00:57:40.505 --> 00:57:45.965
maybe it's it's me being in strike as VP of engineering and and talking with so many engineers
803
00:57:46.905 --> 00:57:48.605
that want to switch from
804
00:57:49.740 --> 00:57:56.160
soul crushing jobs without any meaning at, you know, big tech companies to something that has meaning. Like,
805
00:57:56.895 --> 00:57:59.235
I am optimistic for the future and,
806
00:58:01.375 --> 00:58:02.035
you know,
807
00:58:02.495 --> 00:58:05.715
we, you just accept, you will never be
808
00:58:06.480 --> 00:58:07.539
the most popular,
809
00:58:08.480 --> 00:58:09.539
the most entertaining,
810
00:58:09.839 --> 00:58:13.539
but, you know, that's that's not the point. The point is
811
00:58:14.079 --> 00:58:16.020
you pick this cross of
812
00:58:16.495 --> 00:58:21.875
actually making a difference and, you know, being actionable Bitcoin discussion. So,
813
00:58:22.335 --> 00:58:22.995
you know,
814
00:58:23.910 --> 00:58:28.890
we will not talk about number go up. We'll talk that everyone should read Katan's
815
00:58:29.670 --> 00:58:32.730
article on creating digital identity and
816
00:58:33.255 --> 00:58:35.355
do it after this call. And
817
00:58:35.815 --> 00:58:38.075
818
00:58:39.815 --> 00:58:41.755
819
00:58:43.319 --> 00:58:44.059
this is
820
00:58:44.839 --> 00:58:48.220
the article I'm talking about, like, starting a new digital identity.
821
00:58:48.599 --> 00:58:58.955
822
00:58:59.809 --> 00:59:02.150
823
00:59:03.410 --> 00:59:03.890
those,
824
00:59:04.609 --> 00:59:09.545
messages. It's like people telling me, hey. Tell Matt, I've listened to you 2 talk
825
00:59:10.005 --> 00:59:10.505
because,
826
00:59:11.765 --> 00:59:15.785
people can feel the energy between us, Matt, and especially between
827
00:59:17.230 --> 00:59:28.474
you and other people, because in Bitcoin, you you're one of the most loved people. And it's just, I'm telling you, you're too too much of a critical thinker, and then you point that criticism toward yourself.
828
00:59:29.415 --> 00:59:36.690
Get out, man. You're you're you're doing a good job. You just maybe need yeah. You maybe need a funeral as well and new NIM
829
00:59:37.230 --> 00:59:40.770
830
00:59:41.405 --> 00:59:44.385
There's the question is if if this gets
831
00:59:46.605 --> 00:59:49.905
if if the I like dispatch. I like rapid recap,
832
00:59:51.710 --> 00:59:55.170
but it's it's not an easy one to throw away.
833
00:59:58.555 --> 01:00:01.295
But, yeah, that's another I mean, that's an important point though.
834
01:00:03.035 --> 01:00:04.095
I have many identities.
835
01:00:05.355 --> 01:00:09.010
That's a very easy step. That's a lot easier than
836
01:00:09.550 --> 01:00:11.730
getting rid of 1 and starting a new one.
837
01:00:13.390 --> 01:00:16.130
It's a very good first step is to have multiple.
838
01:00:18.495 --> 01:00:21.315
So, I mean, if we're if we if we wanna talk about
839
01:00:23.455 --> 01:00:28.279
840
01:00:28.680 --> 01:00:31.079
difference between secrecy and privacy and,
841
01:00:32.519 --> 01:00:33.765
those people that
842
01:00:34.164 --> 01:00:37.305
are individuals that are really hardcore about privacy.
843
01:00:39.204 --> 01:00:45.250
It's always a good question. If you are hardcore about privacy or secrecy, like you can never
844
01:00:46.109 --> 01:00:49.410
test your privacy and your setup too much.
845
01:00:50.775 --> 01:01:00.395
You know, like, oh, you know, me, your private will, will, how, how private are you? How fast can your name and identity be doxed?
846
01:01:01.480 --> 01:01:04.620
Like, you should always test that every few months
847
01:01:05.640 --> 01:01:06.140
and
848
01:01:06.440 --> 01:01:08.860
then start that process of in iteration,
849
01:01:10.675 --> 01:01:11.895
to, you know,
850
01:01:12.195 --> 01:01:13.415
kill the old name,
851
01:01:13.875 --> 01:01:16.695
get a new one, and, and see what sticks.
852
01:01:16.995 --> 01:01:18.695
What is really you
853
01:01:19.070 --> 01:01:19.570
versus
854
01:01:20.110 --> 01:01:21.090
what is
855
01:01:21.390 --> 01:01:24.770
that current identity that's popular or part of yourself?
856
01:01:25.230 --> 01:01:25.730
Because
857
01:01:27.265 --> 01:01:30.325
that that's also another thing that, that I dislike
858
01:01:31.025 --> 01:01:35.125
about the fact that only those that are most public, most vocal,
859
01:01:35.970 --> 01:01:38.549
most entertaining, like they get all the stage,
860
01:01:39.650 --> 01:01:40.150
identities
861
01:01:40.609 --> 01:01:43.589
like digital or otherwise are such a big topic.
862
01:01:44.494 --> 01:01:45.234
But the
863
01:01:45.535 --> 01:01:49.634
last decades at this point are dominated by
864
01:01:51.990 --> 01:01:56.170
shallow identity talk that doesn't go into specifics of,
865
01:01:57.350 --> 01:01:58.090
you know,
866
01:01:58.485 --> 01:02:02.905
all of us, we're not the same person, a 100% of the time. We're different people
867
01:02:03.205 --> 01:02:06.425
and we need to formalize those identities because,
868
01:02:07.170 --> 01:02:10.710
Matt at work is different than Matt at home,
869
01:02:11.090 --> 01:02:11.590
Matt,
870
01:02:12.370 --> 01:02:13.350
at the bar,
871
01:02:14.225 --> 01:02:18.885
met in this setting, like, is it more personal and Right. There's no reason to tie it all together.
872
01:02:19.745 --> 01:02:23.650
Exactly. And in in the this environment, in this
873
01:02:24.130 --> 01:02:26.309
world where information is ever faster,
874
01:02:26.609 --> 01:02:29.750
it's also like placing that burden onto you
875
01:02:30.130 --> 01:02:31.670
to be all those people.
876
01:02:32.215 --> 01:02:35.195
Like, oh, you go to work now. It's, like,
877
01:02:36.135 --> 01:02:40.555
not working 8, you know, 8 hours, but, like, 12 hours. And that's
878
01:02:41.820 --> 01:02:43.840
so many people are, like, so disconnected
879
01:02:44.380 --> 01:02:49.680
from all the different identities they're forced to be, to wear a suit, to wear a tie.
880
01:02:51.805 --> 01:02:55.025
But it's really important to to have that discussion
881
01:02:55.405 --> 01:02:56.945
in deep and meaningful way
882
01:02:57.405 --> 01:02:59.425
and then recognize how, like,
883
01:03:01.760 --> 01:03:03.620
how to build that structure
884
01:03:04.000 --> 01:03:06.020
and connections between identities
885
01:03:06.880 --> 01:03:10.580
and have it in sustainable way so that you do not go insane,
886
01:03:10.944 --> 01:03:11.444
essentially.
887
01:03:12.224 --> 01:03:12.724
888
01:03:15.025 --> 01:03:19.924
I mean and that's like a you made an also really interesting point there that in terms of privacy,
889
01:03:20.790 --> 01:03:22.390
it is it is one of those
890
01:03:22.710 --> 01:03:27.609
especially in every digital world where, you know, Barbara Streisand, the Streisand effect
891
01:03:27.990 --> 01:03:28.310
about the
892
01:03:29.109 --> 01:03:29.690
the Internet
893
01:03:30.194 --> 01:03:30.934
is forever,
894
01:03:32.115 --> 01:03:38.775
and it's hard to delete things from the Internet. It's impossible to delete things from the Bitcoin ledger, the Bitcoin blockchain,
895
01:03:41.040 --> 01:03:46.580
and you usually don't notice the privacy break until it's too late. So it is something that you kinda
896
01:03:47.145 --> 01:03:51.165
have to, like, actively be watching all the time and actively be thinking about,
897
01:03:51.625 --> 01:03:54.845
which does give, you know, additional mental cost there.
898
01:03:55.310 --> 01:03:57.810
I mean, that's just a trade off. I don't know if that's unavoidable.
899
01:03:58.830 --> 01:04:01.090
We have our we have our boy,
900
01:04:01.870 --> 01:04:02.770
Silent Link,
901
01:04:03.455 --> 01:04:13.400
in the Twitch comments. First of all, Silent Link. You know, I love your service. I don't know why you're not in the matrix chat, but I'm gonna it's a very good comment, so I'm gonna highlight it
902
01:04:13.700 --> 01:04:14.760
on on the show.
903
01:04:15.700 --> 01:04:23.575
He's saying stop saying our data is monetized. It's our behavior that is monetized, and our data is the means to manipulate it. I think that's a very good point.
904
01:04:24.595 --> 01:04:25.734
Words do matter,
905
01:04:26.450 --> 01:04:31.730
and I like your framing better than mine. So I will be using that going forward. I do appreciate it.
906
01:04:33.010 --> 01:04:35.190
It is our behavior that is being monetized,
907
01:04:35.695 --> 01:04:37.795
and our behavior is being harvested.
908
01:04:39.775 --> 01:04:42.675
So I I do appreciate that framing. I and I think,
909
01:04:43.049 --> 01:04:44.910
you know, if you wanna talk about
910
01:04:45.930 --> 01:04:47.230
why words matter,
911
01:04:47.930 --> 01:04:49.789
a perfect example is
912
01:04:51.234 --> 01:04:55.015
what we're seeing right now, which is this this attack on
913
01:04:56.355 --> 01:05:00.535
this attack on Bitcoin privacy tools, specifically collaborative Bitcoin transactions,
914
01:05:01.620 --> 01:05:03.560
the most popular being CoinJoin.
915
01:05:04.500 --> 01:05:05.000
And
916
01:05:07.620 --> 01:05:09.720
there's a separate thing that is
917
01:05:10.255 --> 01:05:12.435
mixing Bitcoin. And when you mix Bitcoin,
918
01:05:12.895 --> 01:05:14.595
you use a custodial service.
919
01:05:15.055 --> 01:05:17.315
That service takes custody of your coins
920
01:05:18.180 --> 01:05:20.119
and gives you someone else's coins.
921
01:05:20.740 --> 01:05:27.400
When you do a coin join, it's a collaborative Bitcoin send, it's a native Bitcoin transaction that has privacy best practices
922
01:05:27.925 --> 01:05:29.065
taken into account,
923
01:05:29.525 --> 01:05:31.065
that you're doing with other people,
924
01:05:31.525 --> 01:05:36.745
that no one is taking custody of your coin, you get brand new coin out the other side,
925
01:05:37.200 --> 01:05:38.820
and it breaks the probability
926
01:05:39.200 --> 01:05:48.984
analysis that is used by chain surveillance companies. And this is a distinction that I've been trying to make very clear whenever I talk about CoinJoin, whenever I talk about collaborative transactions.
927
01:05:49.925 --> 01:05:52.185
A lot of people have not been doing that,
928
01:05:53.050 --> 01:05:54.590
and the enemies of privacy
929
01:05:54.890 --> 01:05:55.390
continuously
930
01:05:55.690 --> 01:05:58.910
try to conflate the 2, and we're seeing that right now.
931
01:05:59.850 --> 01:06:01.870
There's been a bunch of articles lately.
932
01:06:03.825 --> 01:06:04.565
I did
933
01:06:05.025 --> 01:06:10.725
I did an interview with CoinDesk where there was, like, a little bit of an editorial ahead of it, and they conflated it.
934
01:06:11.840 --> 01:06:12.580
The block
935
01:06:13.360 --> 01:06:15.540
had, like, a horrible article about
936
01:06:16.000 --> 01:06:21.095
CoinJoin that they're like, I I don't even know if they did any kind of fucking research whatsoever.
937
01:06:21.635 --> 01:06:24.435
Things were conflated in it. Feet conflated it.
938
01:06:25.875 --> 01:06:27.974
And now we don't really know
939
01:06:29.030 --> 01:06:31.210
if there was any kind of real regulatory
940
01:06:31.510 --> 01:06:32.010
pressure
941
01:06:32.310 --> 01:06:32.810
on
942
01:06:33.270 --> 01:06:33.770
Wasabi
943
01:06:35.270 --> 01:06:38.170
or what the deal is. Feet released an article
944
01:06:39.974 --> 01:06:40.714
about the
945
01:06:41.895 --> 01:06:42.954
the British regulator,
946
01:06:44.934 --> 01:06:49.509
I think it's the FCA, maybe it's a different British regulator that's trying to go after CoinJoin
947
01:06:50.690 --> 01:06:55.750
services, the services that actually offer the coordination. So with CoinJoin, you can have
948
01:06:56.174 --> 01:06:59.315
collaborative transactions that are not run by a centralized coordinator.
949
01:07:00.335 --> 01:07:01.714
Join Market does this.
950
01:07:02.015 --> 01:07:13.035
Samurais has two features that do it, stonewall and stowaway. And, basically, it's just like you and one other person, you're doing the coin join. You don't have this this centralized coordinator that is coordinating
951
01:07:13.415 --> 01:07:14.795
the transaction happening.
952
01:07:15.095 --> 01:07:16.315
Now on Wasabi,
953
01:07:17.095 --> 01:07:20.660
you have a centralized coordinator. In Samurai, you have a centralized coordinator.
954
01:07:24.560 --> 01:07:25.220
And previously,
955
01:07:25.600 --> 01:07:27.140
in terms of legal precedent,
956
01:07:27.885 --> 01:07:32.065
running a mixing service, one of these centralized custodial mixing services,
957
01:07:32.845 --> 01:07:39.240
has been considered a criminal act. The users I'm pretty sure there's never been a case where users have been hit,
958
01:07:40.099 --> 01:07:43.625
with anything, but the actual operators have been hit.
959
01:07:44.985 --> 01:07:46.525
And now there's a conflation
960
01:07:46.825 --> 01:07:59.070
that the operators of a coordinator service would be hit the same way even though I don't think I'm not once I'm not a fucking lawyer, but I don't think there's any legal precedent for it. I don't think there's any laws against it. It's a message transfer service.
961
01:07:59.370 --> 01:08:04.655
But, anyway, all that said, at the end of the day, words do matter. When we're talking about these things,
962
01:08:05.195 --> 01:08:05.435
they
963
01:08:06.155 --> 01:08:08.735
you know, especially if you have a platform, they matter significantly.
964
01:08:10.240 --> 01:08:12.980
But I have to say, this whole wasabi thing, like,
965
01:08:13.520 --> 01:08:14.500
I've been critical
966
01:08:15.280 --> 01:08:17.540
of of them for a while now.
967
01:08:18.565 --> 01:08:21.145
Previously, I was probably one of their largest shills.
968
01:08:21.685 --> 01:08:24.265
I will own that, you know, years ago.
969
01:08:24.965 --> 01:08:27.650
But I did turn. We had we had,
970
01:08:28.350 --> 01:08:29.970
I had no power on the show
971
01:08:30.350 --> 01:08:32.850
where we had an open discussion about a lot of my complaints.
972
01:08:35.435 --> 01:08:38.255
I'm not Stefan, so I don't know which episode that was.
973
01:08:38.795 --> 01:08:39.295
But
974
01:08:40.554 --> 01:08:43.375
right now, like, do you see that they're gonna they're,
975
01:08:44.650 --> 01:08:55.845
like, first of all, they're, like, a bunch of vague tweets about it. There's no, like, proper statement. Yeah. And then in Telegram, in the group chat in Telegram, Nopara, the founder of Wasabi, said they're gonna
976
01:08:57.345 --> 01:08:59.285
pay a chain surveillance firm
977
01:09:00.440 --> 01:09:01.340
or multiple,
978
01:09:01.640 --> 01:09:03.660
I don't know, I think he said 1,
979
01:09:04.840 --> 01:09:08.380
to screen transactions before they go into coin join rounds
980
01:09:08.985 --> 01:09:10.205
and block transactions,
981
01:09:11.065 --> 01:09:14.765
if they get flagged by the chain surveillance company. And, presumably
982
01:09:15.385 --> 01:09:24.500
I mean, these chain surveillance companies, they gotta share they're sharing all this information around. They're combining with other data they have, other external data they have from KYC companies and stuff.
983
01:09:26.095 --> 01:09:29.715
So, like, CoinJoin fees paid to will literally be paying,
984
01:09:30.815 --> 01:09:31.635
you know, these
985
01:09:32.255 --> 01:09:33.715
anti privacy mercenaries.
986
01:09:35.660 --> 01:09:38.400
And I just I just don't understand. Like,
987
01:09:39.420 --> 01:09:43.360
maybe they disagree with my technical issues with
988
01:09:44.565 --> 01:09:46.425
with with Wasabi and
989
01:09:47.205 --> 01:09:56.280
and some of the choices. No. You know, the faults. But, like, why why not just shut down the company at point instead of doing that? Like, that's just disheartening. Right? That's just
990
01:09:56.980 --> 01:09:58.840
like, where are the priorities there?
991
01:10:00.555 --> 01:10:03.055
992
01:10:03.995 --> 01:10:05.455
be hard on the issue,
993
01:10:05.915 --> 01:10:14.170
not hard on the people, and they say you were one of their biggest shi shills. You still are, man. See, we're we're giving the advertising.
994
01:10:14.790 --> 01:10:16.170
We're wasabi right now.
995
01:10:17.705 --> 01:10:24.365
Don't use it. Well, yeah, you don't use it anymore, but we are shilling it on them. I'm saying don't the freak shouldn't use it.
996
01:10:26.320 --> 01:10:29.600
Now everyone will use it because you said they they shouldn't. But,
997
01:10:31.760 --> 01:10:32.420
I think,
998
01:10:33.280 --> 01:10:37.805
from my experience of being in startups and being a
999
01:10:38.905 --> 01:10:39.405
developer,
1000
01:10:39.865 --> 01:10:42.685
CTO, founder, this and that is just,
1001
01:10:43.700 --> 01:10:46.980
there are competing priorities. And that's where I think,
1002
01:10:48.100 --> 01:10:52.600
no part of it just didn't have the bandwidth to process your complaints
1003
01:10:53.235 --> 01:10:54.695
and is now in position,
1004
01:10:57.715 --> 01:11:02.295
where taking everything, like all the information that he has, that we don't have,
1005
01:11:02.690 --> 01:11:05.270
he is making judgment call. And,
1006
01:11:06.050 --> 01:11:11.030
1007
01:11:11.730 --> 01:11:12.230
Yeah.
1008
01:11:12.545 --> 01:11:16.245
I Sure. I I made my complaints very clear.
1009
01:11:17.985 --> 01:11:21.125
I was gaslit. I said they weren't they weren't valid complaints.
1010
01:11:22.230 --> 01:11:26.570
Wasabi 2 point o, which Wasabi 2 point o, which they're rolling out right now,
1011
01:11:27.510 --> 01:11:29.510
attempted to fix a bunch of the complaints,
1012
01:11:30.475 --> 01:11:32.815
without ever saying that they were valid complaints.
1013
01:11:33.835 --> 01:11:37.455
I was personally attacked about it instead of actually changing anything,
1014
01:11:38.719 --> 01:11:43.139
But I'm willing to put all that behind me in terms of this present discussion
1015
01:11:44.079 --> 01:11:46.099
and everything else in a vacuum.
1016
01:11:46.475 --> 01:11:51.355
Right? Everything else in a vacuum. Wasabi we're talking today, this conversation is about
1017
01:11:51.995 --> 01:11:53.295
the title of this conversation
1018
01:11:53.700 --> 01:12:04.675
is the viral nature of information and the power of open source software. And the power of open source software is is it's greater than any individual or group or company. It's not controlled.
1019
01:12:05.375 --> 01:12:11.870
Right? It can live on past people. And with with Wasabi Wasabi itself is free open source makes
1020
01:12:14.610 --> 01:12:15.110
the
1021
01:12:17.850 --> 01:12:18.350
coin
1022
01:12:19.770 --> 01:12:23.775
joint fees, and that's cksnacks. Right? So that makes the coin joint fees, and that's zk Snacks.
1023
01:12:24.635 --> 01:12:36.890
Right? So that company, if they don't if if they don't have the capability of running a coordinator without paying a chain surveillance firm to spy on their users and block people from accessing
1024
01:12:37.670 --> 01:12:38.410
their service,
1025
01:12:39.175 --> 01:12:53.190
then they should shut down that company. And if if someone else or some other group you know, there's contributors outside of the company that are already contributing to Wasabi wants to continue on the project, the project will survive. Someone else will run a coordinator that won't be completely
1026
01:12:53.490 --> 01:12:55.190
cut. But I just don't understand,
1027
01:12:56.105 --> 01:12:59.085
like and then they're doing this double talk where they're
1028
01:12:59.545 --> 01:13:01.325
like, anyone can run a coordinator.
1029
01:13:01.945 --> 01:13:08.420
Like, they don't have to use our coordinator. Okay. So then shut down your fucking coordinator. Like, at the end of the day, it's it's
1030
01:13:08.880 --> 01:13:12.260
it's I mean, it's a it's a greedy choice. Right? The choice is
1031
01:13:12.855 --> 01:13:22.210
they're they're making a shit ton of money off of CoinJoin fees, and this was one of my original complaints to no powers that I was getting personally attacked. But meanwhile, I paid them a shit ton of Bitcoin
1032
01:13:22.750 --> 01:13:24.449
in terms of CoinJoin fees
1033
01:13:25.309 --> 01:13:26.849
for for a poor product,
1034
01:13:27.235 --> 01:13:33.335
and I recommended it to people who paid a shit ton of CoinJoin fees to them for a poor product.
1035
01:13:34.090 --> 01:13:38.830
And then meanwhile, I was getting accused of getting paid by the opposition. Like, I literally paid them.
1036
01:13:40.969 --> 01:13:41.469
1037
01:13:42.635 --> 01:13:50.175
I agree. But my whole point is don't shut down the company. Use the fees from normies and everything else, and you fund
1038
01:13:50.510 --> 01:13:51.010
development
1039
01:13:51.310 --> 01:14:00.525
1040
01:14:01.305 --> 01:14:02.745
1041
01:14:03.385 --> 01:14:05.805
chain surveillance companies are getting funded
1042
01:14:06.250 --> 01:14:08.510
by, we have way bigger fish.
1043
01:14:10.250 --> 01:14:13.870
So the chain surveillance companies are going to survive
1044
01:14:14.170 --> 01:14:15.310
regardless of
1045
01:14:15.724 --> 01:14:19.344
whether Nopara and Wasabi, like, give money to them.
1046
01:14:19.724 --> 01:14:20.224
So,
1047
01:14:21.244 --> 01:14:24.945
I'm telling you, it's never binary choice. It's you need to take
1048
01:14:26.239 --> 01:14:27.920
good with the bad. And,
1049
01:14:29.040 --> 01:14:35.465
I do understand that position, but I'm telling you, I disagree. I I do like it as long as Wasabi
1050
01:14:36.005 --> 01:14:39.625
and Nopar are keeping the software fully open source.
1051
01:14:40.690 --> 01:14:43.030
You know? I I'm like, let the market,
1052
01:14:44.050 --> 01:14:45.030
figure it out.
1053
01:14:45.409 --> 01:14:45.809
And,
1054
01:14:46.289 --> 01:14:48.309
if someone is running coordinators
1055
01:14:49.090 --> 01:14:49.590
without
1056
01:14:51.245 --> 01:14:51.745
surveillance,
1057
01:14:54.525 --> 01:14:57.025
ZK Snacks is running it with surveillance.
1058
01:14:57.460 --> 01:15:01.080
Okay, people. Let's let's put money where our mouth you know?
1059
01:15:01.780 --> 01:15:02.840
What was the saying?
1060
01:15:03.300 --> 01:15:03.800
Put
1061
01:15:04.260 --> 01:15:14.615
1062
01:15:15.910 --> 01:15:17.050
There is a coordinator,
1063
01:15:19.270 --> 01:15:24.410
the samurai coordinator for Whirlpool is not a is not you can't use it with Wasabi.
1064
01:15:26.375 --> 01:15:27.675
They're not running surveillance.
1065
01:15:29.014 --> 01:15:34.140
Okay. It's just Use samurai. But then you also have to remember, of course, with these centralized
1066
01:15:35.020 --> 01:15:35.600
coordinators regardless,
1067
01:15:36.220 --> 01:15:38.080
and this is something that I made very
1068
01:15:38.460 --> 01:15:42.160
clear. I have a whole thread about it that is probably shadow banned from years ago,
1069
01:15:43.815 --> 01:15:49.995
is is the major trade up you get from a centralized coordinator, which, by the way, no power disagrees with this as a concept,
1070
01:15:51.060 --> 01:16:01.045
if you listen to the episode. But but the main trade off with the centralized coordinator is the benefit you get is it's more efficient. It they're able to coordinate larger coin join rounds.
1071
01:16:01.905 --> 01:16:06.150
You you're able to get a a better anonymity set quicker and
1072
01:16:07.330 --> 01:16:07.830
faster
1073
01:16:08.929 --> 01:16:11.429
because you're coordinating it with all these people.
1074
01:16:12.530 --> 01:16:20.965
And as a result, you're also getting all these fees, so you're able to make the UX of the software better and everything easier. But the main negative is is
1075
01:16:21.425 --> 01:16:24.485
is you don't get civil resistance from the coordinator itself,
1076
01:16:25.659 --> 01:16:32.320
and it's impossible to ever prove. You see all these services. You see this in VPN land a lot. All these services say there are no logs.
1077
01:16:33.765 --> 01:16:35.305
It's impossible to prove.
1078
01:16:35.685 --> 01:16:36.825
It's it's impossible
1079
01:16:37.285 --> 01:16:37.785
to
1080
01:16:38.405 --> 01:16:44.140
to prove in a in a verifiable way that someone, the absence of logs or the absence of surveillance.
1081
01:16:46.200 --> 01:16:51.645
So you you're not getting you're not getting protection from from who's ever running the coordinator themselves.
1082
01:16:52.745 --> 01:16:54.845
That's the trade off that is being made.
1083
01:16:56.345 --> 01:16:57.725
Tools like join market
1084
01:16:58.739 --> 01:16:59.400
or Samurais,
1085
01:17:00.260 --> 01:17:02.520
Stonewall, these p to p coin joins
1086
01:17:02.980 --> 01:17:04.520
mitigate that trade off,
1087
01:17:06.885 --> 01:17:07.385
but,
1088
01:17:08.165 --> 01:17:14.480
like, they don't have that trade off, but that is that is an inherent trade off with with centralized coordinators.
1089
01:17:15.020 --> 01:17:16.960
I don't know. It just all seems so
1090
01:17:18.220 --> 01:17:23.005
and then, like, No Power also like, I feel like I'm just venting now, but, like, No Power tweeted out, like,
1091
01:17:23.565 --> 01:17:25.745
the attack on CoinJoin has begun,
1092
01:17:26.125 --> 01:17:26.784
you know.
1093
01:17:27.645 --> 01:17:32.545
It in my opinion, it really hurts. It's really bad news for Bitcoin fungibility.
1094
01:17:33.470 --> 01:17:36.690
Like, this is right now, this is a wasabi thing.
1095
01:17:38.430 --> 01:17:53.700
There could be an argument that samurai is next maybe, But, like, it's clearly not an attack on join market. Like, join market was set up in a way that it doesn't have great UX. Hopefully, the UX gets better. I'm part of a bounty to make UX better. There's a great group of guys doing,
1096
01:17:54.640 --> 01:17:57.860
the jam project where this idea that you can run
1097
01:17:58.335 --> 01:18:03.235
join market easily on on, like, a Raspi blitz or an Umbrel node or any of these
1098
01:18:04.255 --> 01:18:08.920
nodes at home, and you get a nice web UI interface. Like, it's not there yet. It's an alpha.
1099
01:18:10.260 --> 01:18:14.199
But, like, join market was built to be resistant to this type of thing. Right?
1100
01:18:16.179 --> 01:18:16.679
So
1101
01:18:17.895 --> 01:18:20.555
and and this is something that I always thought was,
1102
01:18:23.655 --> 01:18:31.679
there there were a lot of there were a lot of people in the samurai camp that that that called this, and I always said that they were being hyperbolic. This idea that
1103
01:18:32.380 --> 01:18:34.320
wasabi was gonna make a bunch of mistakes.
1104
01:18:34.945 --> 01:18:38.005
They were going to get themselves into a hole,
1105
01:18:38.385 --> 01:18:40.245
and then they were gonna say, like,
1106
01:18:40.705 --> 01:18:44.565
this is an attack on Bitcoin privacy. Like, privacy is dead even though
1107
01:18:47.240 --> 01:18:53.180
it it it was really how they designed their system and how they handled their regulatory issues and how they
1108
01:18:53.705 --> 01:18:54.685
expose themselves.
1109
01:18:57.305 --> 01:19:05.320
I don't know. It's just frustrating. We there's just so few allies in the Bitcoin privacy world, and I just Yeah. When I see shit like that, it just makes me
1110
01:19:06.099 --> 01:19:07.560
feel even more disillusioned.
1111
01:19:09.460 --> 01:19:10.840
1112
01:19:11.204 --> 01:19:14.985
Don't let information. Yeah. Stick with you because Thanks for the vent.
1113
01:19:16.005 --> 01:19:19.900
No. I I now will switch my screen to to
1114
01:19:20.360 --> 01:19:21.100
no tweet
1115
01:19:21.960 --> 01:19:24.460
when he's, like, glorious days in 2013.
1116
01:19:25.159 --> 01:19:29.975
Bitcoin community successfully pushed back against blacklisting. I'm gonna retweet it to troll
1117
01:19:30.435 --> 01:19:30.935
you.
1118
01:19:32.675 --> 01:19:43.160
1119
01:19:43.540 --> 01:19:49.715
Like, what the fuck is he even talking about in that tweet? Like, is it it's just a cell phone is what that tweet is.
1120
01:19:51.215 --> 01:20:01.360
1121
01:20:01.820 --> 01:20:06.395
what happened was called out and it was converted. The ultimate the ultimate LARP
1122
01:20:06.775 --> 01:20:09.195
1123
01:20:09.895 --> 01:20:12.875
So, really, what I need to do is just kill this identity,
1124
01:20:13.360 --> 01:20:18.739
kill dispatch and rabbit hole recap, and, like Oh my gosh. Spend a year learning how to program
1125
01:20:19.679 --> 01:20:22.695
and then come back as a nim and just start building shit.
1126
01:20:23.735 --> 01:20:25.514
That that is the ultimate LARP.
1127
01:20:26.135 --> 01:20:30.235
And I own that. I own that every fucking day. Don't worry, freaks.
1128
01:20:31.139 --> 01:20:32.659
1129
01:20:33.060 --> 01:20:34.599
Actionable Bitcoin discussion
1130
01:20:34.900 --> 01:20:38.280
breaking. Matt is becoming a programmer or rock star developer.
1131
01:20:38.955 --> 01:20:41.375
Hey, I'm ready, man. Whenever you are.
1132
01:20:41.675 --> 01:20:45.535
1133
01:20:46.610 --> 01:20:53.429
1134
01:20:54.085 --> 01:21:00.025
I'm telling you, man, like, we were going to inspire and encourage so many people after this podcast because,
1135
01:21:02.310 --> 01:21:05.190
yeah. It's about not letting that viral
1136
01:21:05.990 --> 01:21:11.770
no. No. It is. Like, that not letting that viral nature of information take over and realize
1137
01:21:14.175 --> 01:21:15.635
how to fight back
1138
01:21:16.335 --> 01:21:18.435
because there is so much happening
1139
01:21:19.090 --> 01:21:20.710
and, you just can't
1140
01:21:21.090 --> 01:21:31.515
let it get to you. And, and like big losses like this, that, you know, this was called with Wasabi and it's actually happened. Like, okay, man. It's it's one thing,
1141
01:21:32.455 --> 01:21:33.835
but let's keep going.
1142
01:21:34.430 --> 01:21:39.650
It's it's I look at it also as a recognition of how far we have come
1143
01:21:40.190 --> 01:21:41.410
to the point where,
1144
01:21:43.045 --> 01:21:44.665
Bitcoin and crypto
1145
01:21:45.285 --> 01:21:49.065
is so much in crosshairs of regulators. Like it is,
1146
01:21:50.130 --> 01:21:55.430
considering my position. I mean, I obviously can't talk much about my professional engagements,
1147
01:21:56.050 --> 01:21:59.575
but it is the talk of the town, man. Like,
1148
01:22:00.195 --> 01:22:06.135
more and more people are waking up to this realization that, money and the state
1149
01:22:06.540 --> 01:22:07.840
will be separated.
1150
01:22:08.860 --> 01:22:09.360
And,
1151
01:22:10.460 --> 01:22:10.960
it's
1152
01:22:11.500 --> 01:22:19.735
a scary thought for for many. It's like, no, woah, how how will we execute or all our plans, all the like great
1153
01:22:20.435 --> 01:22:21.415
reset and,
1154
01:22:23.530 --> 01:22:32.110
central plan the world, like the best possible world into existence if we don't have control over money. Like, we we see that time is running out.
1155
01:22:34.065 --> 01:22:40.645
And, It does feel like it's heating up, right? Yeah, it is. It is man. Like they, they are becoming more aggressive
1156
01:22:41.030 --> 01:22:41.530
and,
1157
01:22:42.710 --> 01:22:44.170
I'm telling you, like I did, there's
1158
01:22:44.789 --> 01:22:47.289
when you're participating in it as a developer,
1159
01:22:48.735 --> 01:22:49.395
that's, that's
1160
01:22:50.175 --> 01:22:52.595
what has been like a lot of complaints lately.
1161
01:22:53.215 --> 01:22:56.035
Developers, even open source developers being,
1162
01:22:57.739 --> 01:23:01.040
chased down personally sued. I mean, we had a whole fake.
1163
01:23:01.500 --> 01:23:02.000
Yes,
1164
01:23:04.275 --> 01:23:07.335
We we do because I can tell in in my own
1165
01:23:07.795 --> 01:23:08.755
experience when you see,
1166
01:23:10.435 --> 01:23:10.935
Cody
1167
01:23:11.235 --> 01:23:11.735
from
1168
01:23:12.435 --> 01:23:16.670
the 3 d printed guns, like shilling BTC pay server on Alex Jones,
1169
01:23:17.050 --> 01:23:24.755
you will be glad that you're a NIM and, you know, government can't find all of you that's like building BTC pay server. Right.
1170
01:23:25.375 --> 01:23:32.360
That's a that was a that was a hilarious moment. You know, when he was like Cody on on When did that happen?
1171
01:23:33.140 --> 01:23:34.520
That was, like, 2018,
1172
01:23:36.180 --> 01:23:37.960
1173
01:23:38.715 --> 01:23:40.494
1174
01:23:41.195 --> 01:23:43.215
Al Docs who did it. It's it's like,
1175
01:23:43.915 --> 01:23:44.415
Goldstein
1176
01:23:45.195 --> 01:23:54.190
Goldie. He also died. But when we were at Bitblock, boom, he was like, right. Did did you like it? Did you like it? I'm like, goddamn it, man. You should've give me a transforming.
1177
01:23:54.889 --> 01:23:57.325
So I'm like, coding a software that's
1178
01:23:57.705 --> 01:23:59.085
shield on Alex Jones.
1179
01:24:00.025 --> 01:24:03.465
1180
01:24:03.865 --> 01:24:04.365
1181
01:24:06.450 --> 01:24:10.550
I can tell you well, the the part that I can tell you that
1182
01:24:10.930 --> 01:24:12.930
it's public. I mean, it's,
1183
01:24:13.705 --> 01:24:17.165
but it's maybe not so obvious with, with people. It's,
1184
01:24:17.625 --> 01:24:18.925
it's that OFAC,
1185
01:24:20.105 --> 01:24:21.085
sanction list.
1186
01:24:22.310 --> 01:24:24.389
Now that you have conflict in,
1187
01:24:24.790 --> 01:24:25.290
Ukraine,
1188
01:24:25.909 --> 01:24:31.690
there is, like, a real time updating or, like, where what area is under sanctions.
1189
01:24:32.375 --> 01:24:33.355
Right. It's ridiculous.
1190
01:24:33.735 --> 01:24:39.195
It is that information velocity because 20 years ago, you will be happy if you can like,
1191
01:24:40.070 --> 01:24:45.450
put a country under sanctions. Now I don't know what's next. We'll need, like, GPS trackers
1192
01:24:46.150 --> 01:24:46.650
and
1193
01:24:47.015 --> 01:24:51.515
real time resolving of location addresses. They're like, oh, you know, if you go
1194
01:24:51.975 --> 01:24:55.515
20 feet in this direction, you're no longer under sanctions.
1195
01:24:56.380 --> 01:24:56.700
So
1196
01:24:57.420 --> 01:25:01.760
1197
01:25:02.140 --> 01:25:05.760
it's it's it's the most intense sanctions I've ever seen,
1198
01:25:07.645 --> 01:25:13.505
but there's also, like, this element of cancel culture that is mixed in there, right, where, like, companies are pulling out
1199
01:25:13.989 --> 01:25:18.250
and canceling just anyone who's Russian that's not even on the sanction list.
1200
01:25:19.350 --> 01:25:21.690
And then also, like, just this idea of
1201
01:25:25.095 --> 01:25:30.555
just we live in such a litigious world, a world, like, filled with liabilities, so you just have people
1202
01:25:31.800 --> 01:25:32.700
you just have
1203
01:25:33.080 --> 01:25:44.844
you just have people that just don't want don't want the liability on their hands. Right? And I feel like that is kind of what we're seeing with Wasabi, where I don't we don't even know if they've got a necessarily illegal order or not. They might have.
1204
01:25:45.225 --> 01:25:46.844
But it could just be a
1205
01:25:47.864 --> 01:25:48.364
Yep.
1206
01:25:48.690 --> 01:25:53.910
It could just be a, we don't want the liability, so we're just gonna we're just gonna go ahead and over comply.
1207
01:25:55.250 --> 01:25:59.485
1208
01:26:00.105 --> 01:26:03.005
1209
01:26:03.704 --> 01:26:14.030
1210
01:26:32.545 --> 01:26:39.525
She's crying saying that, like, her Instagram account is, like, her life, her soul. What is she posting this on them?
1211
01:26:40.820 --> 01:26:44.760
Well, I think she posted on Instagram before they cut off her access.
1212
01:26:46.020 --> 01:26:46.520
But,
1213
01:26:47.195 --> 01:26:48.655
you know, you and I are laughing.
1214
01:26:49.195 --> 01:26:51.855
Yeah. But you and I are laughing, but it is
1215
01:26:52.715 --> 01:26:53.695
very interesting
1216
01:26:54.880 --> 01:26:59.139
as a, you know, concept. And I mean, she she is right.
1217
01:26:59.520 --> 01:27:00.020
Once
1218
01:27:00.800 --> 01:27:01.699
she's demonetized,
1219
01:27:02.685 --> 01:27:04.784
her life changes rapidly.
1220
01:27:05.645 --> 01:27:09.025
And that's the environment in which we are going in.
1221
01:27:10.200 --> 01:27:11.580
It's not the influencers.
1222
01:27:12.040 --> 01:27:13.580
1223
01:27:14.040 --> 01:27:15.660
It's their main source of income
1224
01:27:16.520 --> 01:27:18.060
and they just get cut off.
1225
01:27:18.474 --> 01:27:20.974
They build this platform on a centralized platform
1226
01:27:21.275 --> 01:27:21.934
on quicksand.
1227
01:27:23.514 --> 01:27:29.200
You know, this is why distributed networks and open source software is so important because if you build your life on quicksand
1228
01:27:30.380 --> 01:27:31.440
I mean, if we just
1229
01:27:31.980 --> 01:27:34.080
throw out whatever, you know,
1230
01:27:35.385 --> 01:27:38.045
put to the side any kind of ethics or moral
1231
01:27:38.425 --> 01:27:40.925
questions about influencers as a,
1232
01:27:42.810 --> 01:27:44.110
you know, as a business,
1233
01:27:46.570 --> 01:27:49.150
the or, like, their tactics or their,
1234
01:27:50.489 --> 01:27:51.230
in general,
1235
01:27:52.205 --> 01:27:56.865
you have all these people. You have all these young people that are just basically building their livelihoods on quicksand,
1236
01:27:57.485 --> 01:28:00.945
and they can just get pulled right out from underneath them.
1237
01:28:01.710 --> 01:28:03.090
And you have people whose
1238
01:28:03.469 --> 01:28:05.650
life's wealth has just evaporated
1239
01:28:06.590 --> 01:28:07.489
in a devaluing
1240
01:28:08.030 --> 01:28:12.655
ruble. They can't get money out of the country. They can't get information from out of the country.
1241
01:28:13.995 --> 01:28:16.335
They're stuck in their little propaganda silos.
1242
01:28:18.830 --> 01:28:27.925
It's it's terrible. No. It's terrible. Now more than ever, we need these tools. You know? We need we need people to support them. We need people to build them. We need people to run them.
1243
01:28:28.385 --> 01:28:38.180
We need people to educate people on them. And I I I do My cautious my optimistic take is, like, the most pessimistic optimistic take,
1244
01:28:38.560 --> 01:28:42.420
which is, like, I I just think people mostly learn from getting burned.
1245
01:28:42.995 --> 01:28:52.900
So I just what I see happening is just more and more people get burned, and it just being extremely painful. But then when we get out the other side, it's people will realize the need for this shit.
1246
01:28:54.340 --> 01:28:59.480
That's my optimistic take. It's just in the short to medium term, it's just super not optimistic,
1247
01:28:59.940 --> 01:29:02.440
but ultimately, it becomes optimistic. Right?
1248
01:29:03.635 --> 01:29:09.415
1249
01:29:10.835 --> 01:29:11.335
And,
1250
01:29:11.715 --> 01:29:12.534
1251
01:29:12.949 --> 01:29:13.449
1252
01:29:13.989 --> 01:29:14.489
just,
1253
01:29:14.790 --> 01:29:16.810
just briefly to say that
1254
01:29:17.750 --> 01:29:20.409
a lot of the people already realize it.
1255
01:29:20.965 --> 01:29:25.465
It's just that you need 10 years to, to like, get out of that situation.
1256
01:29:26.324 --> 01:29:27.864
It's like at minimum.
1257
01:29:28.980 --> 01:29:29.380
And,
1258
01:29:30.980 --> 01:29:33.640
that's, I guess, where your long term optimism
1259
01:29:34.340 --> 01:29:36.760
comes into play. It's it's just that.
1260
01:29:39.485 --> 01:29:39.985
1261
01:29:41.005 --> 01:29:42.785
What do you mean by that 10 years?
1262
01:29:43.885 --> 01:29:44.385
1263
01:29:46.130 --> 01:29:48.869
when you are in the country under
1264
01:29:49.329 --> 01:29:49.829
sanctions
1265
01:29:50.769 --> 01:29:51.090
and,
1266
01:29:52.405 --> 01:29:55.945
you also realize that that you're being lied to,
1267
01:29:56.885 --> 01:29:58.345
by mainstream media.
1268
01:30:00.219 --> 01:30:05.760
There is not much you can do in that immediate moment. I mean, you also have engineers from
1269
01:30:06.219 --> 01:30:10.345
Russia now or Belarus who are complaining about they're
1270
01:30:10.885 --> 01:30:14.585
being cut off from all the services, all the platforms.
1271
01:30:15.900 --> 01:30:20.639
So what is it that they can do in in this immediate moment? Like, they can't do anything.
1272
01:30:21.340 --> 01:30:22.880
What they can do is,
1273
01:30:23.985 --> 01:30:25.765
they can finish their education,
1274
01:30:27.665 --> 01:30:31.425
can find a way to immigrate, but and,
1275
01:30:32.150 --> 01:30:36.250
in 5 to 10 years, okay, they will no longer be in that position.
1276
01:30:36.790 --> 01:30:37.290
But
1277
01:30:38.150 --> 01:30:49.545
I also worry that that approach is, is not sustainable. Like you can only move so many times. Like I've moved here to US and all of you, like rug pulled me with this
1278
01:30:50.020 --> 01:30:52.360
broke nonsense and bullshit. I mean,
1279
01:30:52.900 --> 01:30:56.120
now I now I need to move to Texas or something or Florida.
1280
01:30:57.700 --> 01:30:58.200
But,
1281
01:30:58.885 --> 01:30:59.545
yeah, you
1282
01:31:00.085 --> 01:31:04.264
1283
01:31:05.284 --> 01:31:08.390
Yes. And It's easy to cross those borders at least for now.
1284
01:31:09.830 --> 01:31:12.650
1285
01:31:14.310 --> 01:31:19.595
But I'm telling you, there is definitely that power in numbers, that collectivism,
1286
01:31:21.175 --> 01:31:26.795
that fact that if you're public, if you're in the group, if you're like group think
1287
01:31:27.290 --> 01:31:32.750
you're much easier to to navigate in advance, like, navigate challenges ahead.
1288
01:31:33.210 --> 01:31:41.145
1289
01:31:42.085 --> 01:31:44.460
in Ukraine and Russia, like, is a perfect example
1290
01:31:44.840 --> 01:31:46.540
that, like, when the crisis hit,
1291
01:31:47.400 --> 01:31:51.175
like, when shit properly hits the fan So it's too late.
1292
01:31:51.735 --> 01:31:55.994
It's it's way too late. It's, like, it becomes impossible to
1293
01:31:56.454 --> 01:32:00.315
whether you're talking about on on a on a larger scale, things like,
1294
01:32:01.700 --> 01:32:07.160
like, we have Lola, we have 1 we have a Big Corner that's trying to roll out mesh nets in Ukraine,
1295
01:32:09.255 --> 01:32:10.795
you know, with with,
1296
01:32:12.775 --> 01:32:14.074
one of the Bitcoin associations
1297
01:32:14.375 --> 01:32:24.130
that's based over there. She's accepting donations. Like, you you it's really difficult to roll it out in a war zone. If if you're trying to if you're trying to, like, figure out your privacy
1298
01:32:24.430 --> 01:32:30.835
or or access Bitcoin and you don't have it when the when the currency starts failing, when the bank starts failing,
1299
01:32:32.870 --> 01:32:41.210
you know, when they start trying to seize your money, when they start trying to seize your rights, seize your speech, put you in jail, at that point, it's already fucking too late.
1300
01:32:44.215 --> 01:32:45.995
So it's important to compare,
1301
01:32:46.375 --> 01:32:46.875
but
1302
01:32:47.655 --> 01:32:51.034
1303
01:32:51.770 --> 01:32:52.270
6102
1304
01:32:52.730 --> 01:32:55.310
just merge PR to remove a savvy from bitcoinonly.com.
1305
01:32:57.050 --> 01:33:07.225
We have conference in Miami. I'm fully dead. He's still out there. Yeah. He is still out there, but, August 13th, you are also dying. You're getting into casket with me.
1306
01:33:07.845 --> 01:33:13.929
Whoever is jealous, they can get over it that you're you'll be dying together with me will hug in the casket.
1307
01:33:14.389 --> 01:33:19.130
But let's let's put more stuff on on agenda and let's execute because
1308
01:33:19.565 --> 01:33:21.585
with Bitcoin conference coming up,
1309
01:33:21.885 --> 01:33:26.225
we need to announce that that you're doing amazing job with open source
1310
01:33:26.880 --> 01:33:29.700
1311
01:33:30.640 --> 01:33:34.560
1312
01:33:35.200 --> 01:33:35.665
work,
1313
01:33:36.705 --> 01:33:37.205
workspace
1314
01:33:37.585 --> 01:33:38.725
workshop tables.
1315
01:33:39.185 --> 01:33:43.610
One of the workshops that we're going to do, and here's my pitch, is like,
1316
01:33:43.910 --> 01:33:47.930
bring your fiat to turn it into Bitcoin flyer. That will be the workshop.
1317
01:33:48.390 --> 01:33:49.530
So Ben Ark,
1318
01:33:49.835 --> 01:33:53.295
shout out to him. He supplied me with those buy Bitcoin stamps.
1319
01:33:54.554 --> 01:33:59.534
What I propose that we do is everyone brings their, like, dollar bills.
1320
01:34:00.300 --> 01:34:06.400
We stamped them with buy Bitcoin and for like a dollar, whoever donates their stamp dollar,
1321
01:34:07.385 --> 01:34:12.605
gets that stamp to, like, keep stamping more so that we can propagate the message of buying Bitcoin.
1322
01:34:13.145 --> 01:34:15.085
Once we collect all those dollars,
1323
01:34:15.780 --> 01:34:16.740
we will start,
1324
01:34:17.380 --> 01:34:19.400
distributing. Like, it will be air dropped
1325
01:34:19.700 --> 01:34:20.680
across Miami.
1326
01:34:22.500 --> 01:34:24.920
What do you say? Like, are we doing that workshop?
1327
01:34:25.905 --> 01:34:29.685
1328
01:34:30.945 --> 01:34:33.605
I'm not I'm not sure if I really,
1329
01:34:36.080 --> 01:34:41.700
1330
01:34:42.080 --> 01:34:51.805
1331
01:34:54.190 --> 01:35:00.450
I've said in the past that water doesn't need marketing, but neither does and neither does Bitcoin. You figure it out when you need it.
1332
01:35:01.635 --> 01:35:06.295
But, yeah, it's a cool idea. So so just to unpack that a little bit, so the
1333
01:35:06.755 --> 01:35:08.775
the open source stage, which I've been
1334
01:35:09.890 --> 01:35:18.745
spending a shit ton of fucking time on the last few weeks, but we've been planning stages for it for, like, 6 months or 7 months at at Bitcoin 2022
1335
01:35:19.125 --> 01:35:21.145
is is 3 full days of
1336
01:35:21.525 --> 01:35:23.705
of programming dedicated to open source,
1337
01:35:24.325 --> 01:35:25.545
contributors and projects.
1338
01:35:26.699 --> 01:35:35.599
The agenda is fucking packed out with just like, it's it feels like agenda like, space time on that stage is more scarce than Bitcoin at this point.
1339
01:35:36.985 --> 01:35:39.385
Full 3 days of content. The room is,
1340
01:35:39.705 --> 01:35:41.565
fire rated for 2,000 people.
1341
01:35:42.425 --> 01:35:44.445
We're gonna have a 1,000 chairs in it,
1342
01:35:45.060 --> 01:35:47.320
massive room, and 12 workshop tables.
1343
01:35:48.580 --> 01:35:53.320
The workshop tables will be unstructured. Anyone can use them for whatever they want to do there
1344
01:35:53.625 --> 01:35:54.445
all 3
1345
01:35:55.705 --> 01:35:56.205
days,
1346
01:35:57.465 --> 01:36:00.445
yeah, including this buy Bitcoin thing. I I'm I'm
1347
01:36:00.950 --> 01:36:01.770
I'm pretty fucking excited
1348
01:36:02.070 --> 01:36:02.890
about it.
1349
01:36:03.990 --> 01:36:04.730
I think
1350
01:36:05.990 --> 01:36:07.850
on its own, it'll probably,
1351
01:36:08.775 --> 01:36:19.570
like, it's for, obviously, it's in the largest it's in the same venue as the largest Bitcoin event in history, which is Bitcoin 2022, which is on track to be 35,000 to 45,000 people.
1352
01:36:20.590 --> 01:36:25.650
But that 1, 2,000 person conference hall is larger than most Bitcoin conferences that have ever happened,
1353
01:36:25.955 --> 01:36:28.215
and it's gonna be extremely high signal.
1354
01:36:28.675 --> 01:36:30.375
It's gonna be really fucking good.
1355
01:36:30.995 --> 01:36:33.175
So I'm pretty excited about that. I think
1356
01:36:33.970 --> 01:36:41.910
it should open up the eyes of a lot of people and the importance of of the greater open source movement, not just Bitcoin, and why Bitcoin is
1357
01:36:42.785 --> 01:36:46.805
is it's it's essential that Bitcoin is open source and not controlled by anybody,
1358
01:36:47.425 --> 01:36:48.565
and that our projects
1359
01:36:49.105 --> 01:36:51.685
that are tangential to Bitcoin are as well.
1360
01:36:53.010 --> 01:36:58.550
So, yeah, I'm pretty excited about that. We're gonna be trying to raise a bunch of money for developers at the same time.
1361
01:36:59.935 --> 01:37:05.235
So, yeah, that that should be great, and I look I just look forward to kicking it with you. It's always fun kicking it with you.
1362
01:37:05.935 --> 01:37:12.110
1363
01:37:12.890 --> 01:37:21.205
hand, and then Matt Todell airdrop. Like The thing is, I'm Like, I'm going to make so much fun out of that on Twitter. Like, Matt,
1364
01:37:21.665 --> 01:37:30.070
Dell is participating in airdrop. I just need to find from, like, which building you're gonna throw those dollars. Have you noticed that most people just don't even use cash anymore?
1365
01:37:31.090 --> 01:37:37.235
1366
01:37:38.575 --> 01:37:39.075
1367
01:37:39.855 --> 01:37:51.300
Let let's make a bet because you lost the bet last year on 100 k by conference day. Let's not make it about price this year. 200 k by conference day last year. Oh, 200 k. Let's get it correct.
1368
01:37:52.079 --> 01:37:54.055
Too bullish. Yeah. Let's get
1369
01:37:54.935 --> 01:37:57.915
1370
01:37:58.614 --> 01:38:01.195
1371
01:38:01.815 --> 01:38:06.989
and $1 bills. They will be, like, stamped with buy Bitcoin all over them, like, easy.
1372
01:38:07.290 --> 01:38:08.429
And I'm going to
1373
01:38:09.050 --> 01:38:16.835
to do that for, like, I see who 2 more people will be. So at least, like, a $1,000 we'll have in in, like, buy Bitcoin flyers
1374
01:38:18.015 --> 01:38:19.875
in in form of dirty fiat.
1375
01:38:20.335 --> 01:38:21.235
You wanna bet?
1376
01:38:21.980 --> 01:38:25.280
1377
01:38:25.660 --> 01:38:26.880
I'm not gonna bet on that.
1378
01:38:27.420 --> 01:38:35.955
Okay. I support I support the cause. I'll help I'll help out with that. I just I I don't know. Maybe I'm just disenfranchised Matt right now. I'm just a bit disillusioned.
1379
01:38:38.415 --> 01:38:52.195
That's for you. Yeah. I see. That's your smile. We were getting somewhere. So let's see how much you will raise. If you do wanna kick it with us in Miami if you don't wanna come to the conference, like, you should still come to Miami. The side events are always great.
1380
01:38:52.575 --> 01:38:54.275
But if you do wanna come to the conference,
1381
01:38:55.055 --> 01:38:56.675
they have not shut down by
1382
01:38:57.340 --> 01:39:07.005
the code I the code they gave me, which is open code open source gets you 21% off. And you get I think you get, like, 30% off if you pay with Bitcoin, and then you get an additional 21% off
1383
01:39:07.565 --> 01:39:11.105
if you use code open source. But do not share that on Twitter because it's
1384
01:39:11.565 --> 01:39:17.599
it's larger than all the other codes. So if it gets shared on Twitter anymore, I'm gonna get the they're gonna cancel on me.
1385
01:39:18.219 --> 01:39:19.040
1386
01:39:19.420 --> 01:39:25.760
Don't don't don't become canceled. And then for open source contributors, thank you, Matt, for Yeah. They get free tickets.
1387
01:39:26.094 --> 01:39:27.554
On for free tickets.
1388
01:39:27.855 --> 01:39:32.275
1389
01:39:33.775 --> 01:39:34.675
if you just
1390
01:39:35.860 --> 01:39:38.840
yeah. If there's 32 projects listed on the website
1391
01:39:41.140 --> 01:39:43.800
that I tried my best to pick well,
1392
01:39:45.395 --> 01:39:50.855
that was very stressful. Of course, you know, you announced 32 projects are getting free tickets, and
1393
01:39:51.235 --> 01:39:56.300
there's, like, always there's always there's always another 30 projects that are, like, why not me?
1394
01:39:57.000 --> 01:40:01.020
But it took a lot of advocating to get that going, and I'm
1395
01:40:01.925 --> 01:40:11.770
very grateful to the to the Bitcoin Magazine team for backing me on that initiative because I think it's a very important initiative. But we're gonna have right now, we've given out,
1396
01:40:13.770 --> 01:40:17.150
probably close to 300 free tickets to open source developers,
1397
01:40:18.545 --> 01:40:19.845
which I'm very proud of,
1398
01:40:20.465 --> 01:40:30.210
and and that that should be great. And they they will all be joining us on the open source stage even if they're not speaking. So speakers obviously already get free tickets. So it was it was,
1399
01:40:30.610 --> 01:40:31.510
it was
1400
01:40:31.970 --> 01:40:32.470
303100
1401
01:40:33.250 --> 01:40:38.455
tickets in addition to the free tickets of the speakers. So these people aren't being, like, compelled to speak or anything.
1402
01:40:38.835 --> 01:40:40.035
They can just chill in the
1403
01:40:41.475 --> 01:40:42.775
they can chill in the audience,
1404
01:40:44.114 --> 01:40:46.614
and still get the free tickets, so that's fucking awesome.
1405
01:40:47.600 --> 01:40:58.805
1406
01:40:59.585 --> 01:41:03.130
1407
01:41:04.250 --> 01:41:07.870
Yeah. He said don't share on Twitter while I'm I'm literally streaming it to Twitter.
1408
01:41:09.690 --> 01:41:12.190
1409
01:41:13.925 --> 01:41:19.385
1410
01:41:19.790 --> 01:41:20.690
you do twitch.tv/dispatch,
1411
01:41:24.110 --> 01:41:27.090
because I don't know how long my Twitter is gonna go for it. Dispatch.com.
1412
01:41:27.950 --> 01:41:29.010
If you want archives,
1413
01:41:29.645 --> 01:41:33.105
favorite podcast apps, you'll get updates there. Join the Citadel chat,
1414
01:41:34.045 --> 01:41:35.905
and then all the archives go to bitcointv.com
1415
01:41:36.525 --> 01:41:37.505
as well. But bitcointvdot
1416
01:41:37.880 --> 01:41:44.060
com, like, we we're still working on the kinks there. It it won't, like, notify you if you subscribe when we go live.
1417
01:41:45.375 --> 01:41:51.555
But if you subscribe to the RSS feed on bitcoin tv.com when the archive gets posted afterwards, it will notify you then.
1418
01:41:52.415 --> 01:41:57.410
So just things to be aware of if you if you wanna keep listening to dispatch. If you don't, that's fine.
1419
01:41:59.310 --> 01:42:04.915
But but, you know, we're at we're at the hour and 40 minute mark. I you know, before we,
1420
01:42:06.494 --> 01:42:13.040
like, wrap up, I wanna talk to you more about, like, what you think the future of Bitcoin privacy looks like. Because, like, right
1421
01:42:14.860 --> 01:42:16.140
now right now, the goal
1422
01:42:17.980 --> 01:42:20.000
you know, one of the key aspects of Bitcoin
1423
01:42:21.355 --> 01:42:27.535
is that it's extremely hard to change. It's a key aspect of the value prop. And and why is that important that Bitcoin's hard to change?
1424
01:42:28.235 --> 01:42:29.455
It's important because
1425
01:42:30.870 --> 01:42:33.770
if it's easy to change, then a malicious entity
1426
01:42:34.230 --> 01:42:39.690
will change it for the negative, and the stability is extremely important. This just robustness of Bitcoin.
1427
01:42:41.155 --> 01:42:42.935
So as a result, I mean,
1428
01:42:43.475 --> 01:42:46.535
unless we get, like, burned really, really fucking hard,
1429
01:42:47.510 --> 01:42:55.290
some kind of edge case, I just don't I don't think there'll ever be any kind of real significant privacy improvements on the base layer.
1430
01:42:56.230 --> 01:42:56.730
So
1431
01:42:58.075 --> 01:42:59.055
that's fine,
1432
01:43:00.155 --> 01:43:01.935
but operating under that conclusion,
1433
01:43:03.035 --> 01:43:07.550
the best we have going for us is to try and improve it on the app layer,
1434
01:43:10.090 --> 01:43:22.405
and make it so that you can use Bitcoin privately in a relatively easy way that doesn't cost you much more than using it in a nonprivate way that is not much more difficult than using it in a nonprivate naive way,
1435
01:43:23.540 --> 01:43:25.240
based on how apps interact
1436
01:43:25.700 --> 01:43:26.520
with Bitcoin.
1437
01:43:27.220 --> 01:43:29.480
And what I really wanna see is I wanna see
1438
01:43:30.534 --> 01:43:36.235
this distinction between, you know, so called privacy wallets, things like Samura or Wasabi or JoinMarket,
1439
01:43:37.770 --> 01:43:51.525
kind of go away. Like, I think, like, all Bitcoin wallets should incorporate privacy best practices. They should be thinking about this when they're developing things. I think BTCPay has done a really good job about this. I mean, BTCPay, I had the whole conversation with Pavel
1440
01:43:53.170 --> 01:43:59.989
about receiving donations in a relatively easy privacy preserving way, and that was not positive. That was not possible really,
1441
01:44:00.832 --> 01:44:03.385
not at least not an easy way before BTCPay
1442
01:44:03.765 --> 01:44:07.145
existed. Right? And we saw the central point of failure in BitPay.
1443
01:44:08.740 --> 01:44:12.840
They came in with KYC. They came in with horrible policies. They supported BCash.
1444
01:44:14.020 --> 01:44:15.400
The community got burned,
1445
01:44:15.780 --> 01:44:20.485
and BTCPay was born. Since then, we have things like Satsail. We have CypherpunkPay.
1446
01:44:21.825 --> 01:44:25.845
You know, we have BIP 47 now supported by 2 wallets. Hopefully, we see more.
1447
01:44:27.340 --> 01:44:30.400
And then also on top of that, you have, like, the layer 2 stuff,
1448
01:44:31.500 --> 01:44:32.560
things like lightning
1449
01:44:33.100 --> 01:44:34.800
and and and whatnot.
1450
01:44:35.885 --> 01:44:40.945
And this is why I said earlier that I always feel like a LARP kind of when I talk about these things
1451
01:44:41.725 --> 01:44:51.820
because I'm not a programmer, and I'm not, you know, necessarily building these things myself. I am not building these things myself. I provide feedback. I'm a user. I try and support monetarily. I try and
1452
01:44:52.375 --> 01:44:53.835
have open discussion about
1453
01:44:54.135 --> 01:44:58.155
feedback and improving these products and building support for these products.
1454
01:44:59.255 --> 01:45:06.060
I, you know, I have open stats where, like, we're we're trying to fund devs. We have Bitcoin Dev list. We're trying to fund devs. I personally fund devs.
1455
01:45:06.600 --> 01:45:08.940
We have all the open source initiatives at the conference.
1456
01:45:09.595 --> 01:45:14.655
But, ultimately and I say all this because I always get accused of saying being a LARP when I say things like this,
1457
01:45:15.515 --> 01:45:17.375
and also because I feel like one.
1458
01:45:19.770 --> 01:45:21.150
It really does feel
1459
01:45:21.930 --> 01:45:22.430
like
1460
01:45:23.530 --> 01:45:27.630
privacy is, like, the last thing on most people's minds when it comes to Bitcoin.
1461
01:45:28.445 --> 01:45:29.665
It feels like
1462
01:45:31.965 --> 01:45:35.085
it feels like most Lightning developers could really
1463
01:45:36.120 --> 01:45:44.060
they don't even think about it. They don't even really consider the privacy implications. It feels like most wallet developers don't think about them. It feels like influencers
1464
01:45:44.440 --> 01:45:45.659
attack, you know,
1465
01:45:46.605 --> 01:45:49.985
one of the few like, I I'm not saying, like, samurai is, like,
1466
01:45:50.365 --> 01:45:52.865
super nice on Twitter. They're fucking assholes on Twitter.
1467
01:45:53.810 --> 01:46:11.145
But it feels like they get attacked all the time for, like, not being private enough because, you know, you can use it without using your own full node, and then you use their node, but it defaults to Tor when most wallets don't default to Tor where they have coin control, where most wallets don't have coin control, where they don't have they don't take custody, they don't have KYC,
1468
01:46:11.610 --> 01:46:14.510
while the major lightning wallets have KYC and the
1469
01:46:15.050 --> 01:46:17.789
and a lot of people are most people are coming in through KYC.
1470
01:46:18.250 --> 01:46:21.715
I mean, the major lightning wallets are custodial, and most people are coming in through KYC.
1471
01:46:22.094 --> 01:46:25.955
And it just feels like there's just not that much focus on privacy in the Bitcoin space.
1472
01:46:27.770 --> 01:46:28.590
And I just
1473
01:46:29.210 --> 01:46:30.810
like, what is what are we
1474
01:46:31.370 --> 01:46:35.310
what what is the next 5 years look like for Bitcoin privacy? Like, what what,
1475
01:46:35.905 --> 01:46:39.365
ideally, what is the optimistic take? Give me your optimistic take
1476
01:46:40.385 --> 01:46:42.085
on people using Bitcoin privately.
1477
01:46:44.560 --> 01:46:45.060
1478
01:46:46.240 --> 01:46:50.020
You know, I do preparations before podcasts, but
1479
01:46:50.800 --> 01:46:53.220
I was really trying hard to think
1480
01:46:53.565 --> 01:46:56.385
strategically about next 5 years and what are
1481
01:46:56.925 --> 01:46:59.825
5 most likely scenarios that will play out.
1482
01:47:00.845 --> 01:47:01.085
And,
1483
01:47:04.750 --> 01:47:05.650
if I am,
1484
01:47:10.005 --> 01:47:14.105
Yeah. That's a disappointment. I couldn't come up with any really optimistic scenario
1485
01:47:16.405 --> 01:47:19.700
because the most optimistic scenario for me
1486
01:47:20.719 --> 01:47:22.739
is that we start with,
1487
01:47:23.920 --> 01:47:28.845
names from ground up. Go back to what it is was, like, 2012
1488
01:47:29.225 --> 01:47:30.925
when Yeah. Well, that's not true.
1489
01:47:31.385 --> 01:47:31.885
Gavin
1490
01:47:32.265 --> 01:47:40.740
and what's the name of Mike Hern. They were like, oh, you you can't use names. You need to dox yourself in order to contribute to Bitcoin Core.
1491
01:47:42.640 --> 01:47:43.140
Yeah.
1492
01:47:44.375 --> 01:47:46.395
Like, go back and change that because
1493
01:47:49.415 --> 01:47:50.715
I would like
1494
01:47:51.470 --> 01:47:56.610
to, to see me first way, way, way more like NIB developers in Bitcoin core,
1495
01:47:56.910 --> 01:47:59.410
but it's, it's hard to do that,
1496
01:48:01.655 --> 01:48:05.755
without getting the whole, yeah, public persona going on podcasts,
1497
01:48:07.255 --> 01:48:09.675
being presentable face of Bitcoin
1498
01:48:10.140 --> 01:48:10.640
development,
1499
01:48:11.179 --> 01:48:12.640
which has its benefits.
1500
01:48:14.460 --> 01:48:15.360
And I
1501
01:48:17.645 --> 01:48:19.824
it's an interesting strategy. But
1502
01:48:20.685 --> 01:48:25.344
the most optimistic scenario definitely would be that that we normalize
1503
01:48:26.290 --> 01:48:28.310
NIMs in Bitcoin core development,
1504
01:48:30.130 --> 01:48:30.630
work.
1505
01:48:31.250 --> 01:48:36.525
I mean, I will actually look a little bit into it, building a shadowy supercoder team,
1506
01:48:37.065 --> 01:48:40.605
but also not make one team, but make multiple teams.
1507
01:48:41.224 --> 01:48:45.370
And then also normalize everything else that that you are saying that,
1508
01:48:47.130 --> 01:48:50.030
there is community wide support for,
1509
01:48:51.050 --> 01:48:56.475
coin selection, for coin join that we as a community are fighting this
1510
01:48:57.255 --> 01:48:58.395
insane regulation
1511
01:48:58.775 --> 01:49:00.795
in in a robust way,
1512
01:49:01.255 --> 01:49:01.994
and that
1513
01:49:03.340 --> 01:49:06.320
it's just all this stuff that should be normalized is normalized.
1514
01:49:07.340 --> 01:49:10.400
Way more likely scenario that I see is is
1515
01:49:12.065 --> 01:49:13.525
we'll just see more of
1516
01:49:14.145 --> 01:49:16.005
a sailor approach, which,
1517
01:49:16.705 --> 01:49:17.205
unfortunately,
1518
01:49:17.745 --> 01:49:24.380
he was public few times about, yeah, working with regulators, regulating preserving Bitcoin more as an investment
1519
01:49:24.840 --> 01:49:27.260
because that future still leaves
1520
01:49:28.195 --> 01:49:30.935
a lot of space for privacy. It's just
1521
01:49:31.795 --> 01:49:32.275
is it
1522
01:49:33.395 --> 01:49:34.455
it's not
1523
01:49:34.915 --> 01:49:35.415
maximizing
1524
01:49:36.240 --> 01:49:38.980
the number of people that are enjoying those?
1525
01:49:39.440 --> 01:49:47.425
1526
01:49:48.225 --> 01:49:54.790
and I think it's achievable. Like, I I think I think the current tools we have right now are better than they've ever been in the past.
1527
01:49:56.290 --> 01:49:58.469
Both summary and join market are great.
1528
01:49:59.975 --> 01:50:04.155
Try and use them. Use your own using your own node is easier than ever.
1529
01:50:05.655 --> 01:50:07.435
A lot of the wallets we have
1530
01:50:07.880 --> 01:50:10.620
besides Bitcoin core like, Bitcoin Core is a great wallet.
1531
01:50:12.200 --> 01:50:20.284
It could use some UX improvements, but it's a good wallet. Sparrow's a great wallet. BlueWallet is a great wallet if you use it with your own node, same with Sparrow.
1532
01:50:22.860 --> 01:50:27.440
Moon is is is awesome for beginners in terms of UX, but, like,
1533
01:50:28.460 --> 01:50:31.840
the overwhelming majority of people are coming in. They're coming in through KYC.
1534
01:50:33.025 --> 01:50:37.364
They're being fully surveilled in a way that the cash based economy didn't surveil them,
1535
01:50:37.824 --> 01:50:42.244
and they just don't even realize the trade off they're making. They just don't even realize
1536
01:50:43.650 --> 01:50:49.110
they don't even realize how much privacy they're giving up. They're just not even aware they're blissfully ignorant to it.
1537
01:50:49.575 --> 01:50:53.595
And, like, if you if you follow the sailor's school of thought down that line,
1538
01:50:55.495 --> 01:51:00.960
like, I mean, there's no reason to ban Bitcoin in that situation because just 90% of users are completely captured.
1539
01:51:03.820 --> 01:51:06.800
And they I don't even know if that's a better situation.
1540
01:51:08.725 --> 01:51:11.465
It's definitely not a better situation than a cash based economy.
1541
01:51:13.525 --> 01:51:17.305
1542
01:51:18.329 --> 01:51:20.409
It it is a better situation than,
1543
01:51:21.130 --> 01:51:21.630
CBDCs,
1544
01:51:22.010 --> 01:51:31.145
man. It's it's it is a better situation because when we are talking about, you can do this today, you can do this today. I mean, this is a link from your own page
1545
01:51:31.765 --> 01:51:35.330
about, hey. You can always go to a local meetup and buy,
1546
01:51:36.750 --> 01:51:38.290
Bitcoin non cable
1547
01:51:38.670 --> 01:51:42.915
1548
01:51:43.375 --> 01:51:48.755
saw the UK banned a bun I think it was the UK banned a bunch of ATMs or banned all their ATMs.
1549
01:51:49.850 --> 01:51:52.909
But in a lot of places, especially in America at least,
1550
01:51:53.449 --> 01:51:56.409
you can still you can still buy Bitcoin at ATMs,
1551
01:51:56.945 --> 01:52:00.485
with just a phone number, and you can use a burner phone number. So,
1552
01:52:01.505 --> 01:52:03.765
and even if you don't use a burner phone number,
1553
01:52:04.300 --> 01:52:06.000
you know, everything has trade offs.
1554
01:52:06.860 --> 01:52:16.755
Using your regular phone number is definitely way better than, you know, providing a selfie and your passport and your Social security number and your bank account information, your home address and all that other shit.
1555
01:52:18.655 --> 01:52:19.155
1556
01:52:19.909 --> 01:52:20.349
And,
1557
01:52:20.790 --> 01:52:24.869
this then brings us back to what you were saying is, is by the time that,
1558
01:52:25.429 --> 01:52:28.330
conflict starts, it's already too late. So
1559
01:52:29.585 --> 01:52:32.965
I would say, man, just like keep preaching because for people,
1560
01:52:33.265 --> 01:52:36.565
then people will realize that it's not only about,
1561
01:52:37.665 --> 01:52:38.690
number go up.
1562
01:52:39.170 --> 01:52:42.150
It's about having a stack of Sats
1563
01:52:42.610 --> 01:52:45.030
that is not, you know, no KYC.
1564
01:52:45.810 --> 01:52:47.510
And that in 10 years
1565
01:52:48.375 --> 01:52:49.435
frees you completely.
1566
01:52:50.535 --> 01:52:55.900
You know? Like, you you're free to transact while everyone else will be, like, cbdcs,
1567
01:52:56.600 --> 01:52:57.900
CBDCs are coming.
1568
01:52:58.520 --> 01:53:01.100
It's it's not something that we can stop.
1569
01:53:01.400 --> 01:53:03.100
1570
01:53:03.400 --> 01:53:06.185
are a threat to Bitcoin. I mean, obviously, Bitcoin is better than
1571
01:53:06.565 --> 01:53:09.385
1572
01:53:09.765 --> 01:53:22.580
you are worried about and, like, it's a worry that I share, but I look at it, you know, may maybe it's some I'm old. I'm uncle rock star. I'll die soon. But it's like, you can't wish more for people than they wish for themselves.
1573
01:53:23.185 --> 01:53:25.045
That that's just realization
1574
01:53:25.505 --> 01:53:26.965
that that after
1575
01:53:27.745 --> 01:53:28.245
being
1576
01:53:28.865 --> 01:53:31.445
idiotic altruist for most of my life,
1577
01:53:31.770 --> 01:53:37.550
I've I've just accepted it. So I am still altruist, but I try to focus my efforts
1578
01:53:37.929 --> 01:53:41.145
toward, like, who are the people that want my help?
1579
01:53:41.445 --> 01:53:44.665
1580
01:53:44.965 --> 01:53:54.010
I'm a strong believer that Bitcoiners should have options. I think one of the beauties of an open permissionless system is that people can use it however the fuck they want. If people wanna use it, you know,
1581
01:53:54.950 --> 01:53:55.530
in a,
1582
01:53:56.390 --> 01:53:57.210
like, a
1583
01:53:57.725 --> 01:53:58.864
completely controlled
1584
01:53:59.165 --> 01:54:00.145
way where
1585
01:54:00.525 --> 01:54:09.500
they maybe get some kind of inflation hedge, but they're basically just asking permission from their government and from corporations for and they're holding a custodial, so be it.
1586
01:54:11.160 --> 01:54:15.180
I'm I'm more coming at it from, like, the builder perspective,
1587
01:54:16.205 --> 01:54:16.945
right, where
1588
01:54:17.725 --> 01:54:23.905
we need, like, we need to have the tools we need to have the tools there so when people get burned and they realize the need,
1589
01:54:24.340 --> 01:54:25.719
they can use the tools.
1590
01:54:26.500 --> 01:54:28.599
And there's just, like I mean, you see,
1591
01:54:29.780 --> 01:54:31.320
I mean, you see, like, $1,000,000,000
1592
01:54:32.315 --> 01:54:35.455
hedge funds or venture funds coming into the space,
1593
01:54:35.835 --> 01:54:42.094
and they put it into, like, NFTs and all the garbage and stuff. And then, like, the privacy projects are, like,
1594
01:54:42.510 --> 01:54:44.850
struggling by, like, on on fucking
1595
01:54:46.590 --> 01:54:50.690
yeah. I'm not even gonna say pennies. Like, I'm sat on bare barely any funding,
1596
01:54:51.335 --> 01:54:54.075
you know, barely any support, barely any testing,
1597
01:54:54.935 --> 01:54:55.995
and it's like
1598
01:54:57.015 --> 01:55:01.050
it's like we'll be like, it feels like I just want us to be ready
1599
01:55:01.670 --> 01:55:03.450
when people realize the need.
1600
01:55:04.310 --> 01:55:05.370
That's that's
1601
01:55:05.670 --> 01:55:06.170
where
1602
01:55:07.514 --> 01:55:17.440
my concern and focus is, is on that, not necessarily convincing people of the need. I think they'll be I think they'll just get burned, and they'll they'll get convinced eventually. Like, they're
1603
01:55:18.160 --> 01:55:21.460
that's where we're going. We're going to the point where everyone's gonna get burned,
1604
01:55:22.240 --> 01:55:28.245
and they'll figure it out. But I just want like, I want the tools to be ready because building out the tools at that point,
1605
01:55:30.465 --> 01:55:33.860
especially if we need any kind of little soft forks or stuff,
1606
01:55:35.360 --> 01:55:43.625
or, like, any kind of liquidity. Like, a lot of privacy tools rely on this idea of privacy loves company, that you you need other people using it.
1607
01:55:44.885 --> 01:55:46.185
These things take time.
1608
01:55:46.565 --> 01:55:47.385
Right? And,
1609
01:55:48.245 --> 01:55:51.610
I mean, and if we're gonna talk about specifically Bitcoin privacy,
1610
01:55:52.070 --> 01:55:53.530
like, look up timing analysis.
1611
01:55:53.830 --> 01:55:54.949
Like, all the
1612
01:55:55.750 --> 01:56:01.145
and you see it happen with all the big hacks and stuff. Like, if they if they rush and they get impatient,
1613
01:56:02.645 --> 01:56:05.784
they get hit with timing analysis, which is this idea that,
1614
01:56:06.180 --> 01:56:10.120
you know, if if you're if you're doing things in a predictable time,
1615
01:56:12.020 --> 01:56:18.065
if you send all your if you use Coin Join, but you send all your CoinJoin transactions at the same exact time with the same amount of denominations,
1616
01:56:19.405 --> 01:56:20.945
it's probably the same person.
1617
01:56:22.480 --> 01:56:24.820
So these things take time and preparation,
1618
01:56:25.200 --> 01:56:25.700
and
1619
01:56:26.880 --> 01:56:29.460
and then there's, like, this whole other level of just
1620
01:56:30.275 --> 01:56:35.815
we've been groomed to be surveilled all our lives that people just, like, practice self censorship
1621
01:56:36.515 --> 01:56:38.695
where they just don't even wanna talk about it.
1622
01:56:39.210 --> 01:56:40.750
They don't even wanna have the conversation
1623
01:56:42.730 --> 01:56:47.550
because they're scared of the the ramifications, so they just don't even talk about it.
1624
01:56:48.865 --> 01:56:52.965
1625
01:56:53.505 --> 01:56:56.085
1626
01:56:57.010 --> 01:56:59.110
how Bitcoin is designed to pump forever,
1627
01:57:00.050 --> 01:57:01.510
number go up, or
1628
01:57:02.930 --> 01:57:04.230
on chain metrics,
1629
01:57:05.410 --> 01:57:06.150
some bullshit,
1630
01:57:06.515 --> 01:57:12.055
Like, we We would get funding. Engagement right now. We would get funding. Yeah. We could just launch a company.
1631
01:57:13.795 --> 01:57:14.295
1632
01:57:15.235 --> 01:57:21.290
1633
01:57:21.990 --> 01:57:24.730
You know? It's like, how many KYC on ramps do we need?
1634
01:57:26.675 --> 01:57:29.015
1635
01:57:30.435 --> 01:57:31.735
1636
01:57:32.115 --> 01:57:34.980
1637
01:57:38.180 --> 01:57:39.060
I don't know. I,
1638
01:57:41.620 --> 01:57:46.875
number 2 was, yeah, we we are talking about it. And then number 1, I I think, that,
1639
01:57:47.515 --> 01:57:53.150
turn your dirty fiat into bit by Bitcoin flyer workshop just became more interesting because
1640
01:57:53.690 --> 01:57:56.430
I'm going to force you to come up with
1641
01:57:56.890 --> 01:57:58.090
a wish list of,
1642
01:57:58.975 --> 01:58:05.635
1643
01:58:06.150 --> 01:58:07.370
1644
01:58:07.910 --> 01:58:08.570
I actually,
1645
01:58:10.070 --> 01:58:27.380
I feel pretty good where we are. It's just that you're right. I'm I'm I'm looking at the Bitcoiner dot guide and and instructions there. It's fucking horrible. Like, use Bitcoin privately here. Like, you have to like, you say, stick to buy Bitcoin. Your sticker should say
1646
01:58:28.260 --> 01:58:29.720
1647
01:58:30.180 --> 01:58:33.755
you need, like, 10 bills to put the instructions on how they should onboard.
1648
01:58:35.415 --> 01:58:39.275
No. Why not? The stamp should say buy bitcoin no k y c dot com.
1649
01:58:40.970 --> 01:58:44.030
1650
01:58:45.050 --> 01:58:46.750
1651
01:58:47.415 --> 01:58:52.715
1652
01:58:53.735 --> 01:59:04.770
1653
01:59:06.025 --> 01:59:12.205
1654
01:59:12.739 --> 01:59:16.040
1655
01:59:17.780 --> 01:59:22.965
that is evergreen. That is, like, bit it's called Bitcoin for beginners, but it's more advanced
1656
01:59:23.825 --> 01:59:27.685
than, like, a tip typical Bitcoiners guide, and we try and go through everything,
1657
01:59:28.750 --> 01:59:29.970
that people should consider.
1658
01:59:30.830 --> 01:59:38.505
I will ask made a point in the chat, by the way, that that that code that discount code is open source, all caps, one word.
1659
01:59:41.045 --> 01:59:46.505
1660
01:59:47.270 --> 01:59:51.930
1661
01:59:52.710 --> 01:59:55.050
Like, when I meet people on the streets, I say sidodisbad.com/cd
1662
01:59:56.435 --> 01:59:56.935
43.
1663
01:59:58.034 --> 01:59:58.534
1664
01:59:58.915 --> 02:00:03.494
you have new episode to show now. What is it? 59. Cildispatch.com/
1665
02:00:05.000 --> 02:00:05.660
1666
02:00:06.200 --> 02:00:06.700
59.
1667
02:00:07.240 --> 02:00:10.200
Yeah. It's been a it's been a long run, this dispatch. It's,
1668
02:00:10.920 --> 02:00:16.685
we're over we're over 200 hours of of of Bitcoin discussion free, no pay walls,
1669
02:00:17.385 --> 02:00:18.765
no ads, no sponsors.
1670
02:00:19.305 --> 02:00:21.565
It can be done. It is being done.
1671
02:00:23.450 --> 02:00:23.770
And,
1672
02:00:24.970 --> 02:00:25.870
1673
02:00:26.650 --> 02:00:28.670
actionable items after this
1674
02:00:29.385 --> 02:00:29.885
funeral
1675
02:00:30.585 --> 02:00:31.085
workshop.
1676
02:00:32.744 --> 02:00:34.605
1677
02:00:35.945 --> 02:00:36.925
1678
02:00:38.429 --> 02:00:38.929
1679
02:00:40.670 --> 02:00:47.565
This was great, Rockstar. I mean, we're hitting the we're at the 2 hour point. This is where I like to wrap up. I thank you for joining us again.
1680
02:00:48.265 --> 02:00:53.340
I always enjoy having conversation with you. I hope the freaks enjoyed it as much as I enjoyed it.
1681
02:00:54.380 --> 02:00:57.599
Before I wrap up, I always like to give our guests
1682
02:00:57.980 --> 02:00:59.840
a chance for final thoughts.
1683
02:01:00.540 --> 02:01:02.639
So you wanna hit us with some final thoughts?
1684
02:01:11.215 --> 02:01:11.955
He's speechless.
1685
02:01:16.370 --> 02:01:17.110
1686
02:01:17.650 --> 02:01:18.150
because
1687
02:01:19.865 --> 02:01:21.805
I just enjoy being with you,
1688
02:01:22.185 --> 02:01:23.965
you know, all of you.
1689
02:01:24.505 --> 02:01:26.285
You are my tribe, and
1690
02:01:27.450 --> 02:01:28.830
we're going to make it.
1691
02:01:30.890 --> 02:01:37.230
You know, 10 years ago, we were talking about, yeah, where Bitcoin will be, what will happen? Well,
1692
02:01:37.645 --> 02:01:38.705
look at us now.
1693
02:01:39.645 --> 02:01:43.985
We thought when, when we were here, we will make it like now we need to keep pushing.
1694
02:01:44.765 --> 02:01:45.265
So
1695
02:01:45.780 --> 02:01:46.760
as I say,
1696
02:01:47.539 --> 02:01:50.920
see you in Miami and let's let's distribute
1697
02:01:51.699 --> 02:01:53.079
not only by Bitcoin
1698
02:01:54.115 --> 02:01:56.455
dirty fiat, but no kyc.com.
1699
02:01:57.715 --> 02:01:58.775
1700
02:01:59.555 --> 02:02:00.855
I don't know what no kyc.com
1701
02:02:01.235 --> 02:02:02.055
links to.
1702
02:02:03.740 --> 02:02:04.240
Nokyconly.com.
1703
02:02:06.380 --> 02:02:07.840
Should probably check when no kyc.com
1704
02:02:08.300 --> 02:02:09.120
links to.
1705
02:02:10.565 --> 02:02:14.665
Let's go. But it definitely goes to Coinbase. Oh, no. The site can't be reached.
1706
02:02:16.645 --> 02:02:24.480
I think that's a great point to end it on. I appreciate you. I appreciate all the work you do. We didn't even really talk about btzpay server, but especially over at btzpay,
1707
02:02:24.780 --> 02:02:26.320
but also at strike.
1708
02:02:27.815 --> 02:02:28.715
To the freaks,
1709
02:02:29.735 --> 02:02:30.475
don't get
1710
02:02:31.095 --> 02:02:31.595
overwhelmed.
1711
02:02:32.055 --> 02:02:33.035
Don't get disillusioned.
1712
02:02:33.575 --> 02:02:34.475
Small improvements
1713
02:02:34.855 --> 02:02:35.355
help.
1714
02:02:35.800 --> 02:02:37.420
You don't have to do it all at once.
1715
02:02:38.520 --> 02:02:44.140
Take account for yourself, your tribe, your family. Try and improve yourself. Get rid of social media.
1716
02:02:45.125 --> 02:02:47.625
Don't rely on Google so much, unplug the Alexa.
1717
02:02:50.645 --> 02:02:53.625
Literally, all the little improvements really do help,
1718
02:02:54.170 --> 02:02:57.870
And at scale, as more of us do them, it helps everyone.
1719
02:03:00.250 --> 02:03:03.675
You are making a difference, and I'm sorry that I'm a little bit,
1720
02:03:04.554 --> 02:03:05.614
fatigued recently.
1721
02:03:06.635 --> 02:03:07.375
I am
1722
02:03:11.230 --> 02:03:16.130
I am bullish on you guys, and I'm bullish on our on our family. We're gonna fucking kill it.
1723
02:03:16.830 --> 02:03:18.050
1724
02:03:19.605 --> 02:03:21.865
1725
02:03:22.405 --> 02:03:24.905
I will see you next oh, one more thing.
1726
02:03:25.285 --> 02:03:26.985
Rockstar, when are you getting to Miami?
1727
02:03:29.450 --> 02:03:30.350
1728
02:03:31.050 --> 02:03:32.270
Should I make it earlier?
1729
02:03:35.450 --> 02:03:36.270
1730
02:03:37.364 --> 02:03:42.025
is April 5th. April 5th is when BitDevs is gonna be happening,
1731
02:03:44.085 --> 02:03:44.824
and then
1732
02:03:45.560 --> 02:03:53.100
which is funny because April 6th at the conference, the open source stage is supposed to be, like, modeled after bit devs, so it'll be, like, 2 bit devs in a row. But,
1733
02:03:53.825 --> 02:03:56.485
the father of bitdevs himself from New York bitdevs,
1734
02:03:56.865 --> 02:04:00.405
will be running bitdevs in Miami on April 5th.
1735
02:04:01.120 --> 02:04:06.260
Right before that, we will be doing a live sale dispatch at the same venue as BitDevs.
1736
02:04:09.095 --> 02:04:14.955
So if you are going to Miami, try and carve out that day as well if you wanna come join us for the live dispatch.
1737
02:04:15.680 --> 02:04:21.380
I don't know who the guests are gonna be yet. That's why I was asking Rockstar if he was gonna be there. I will be there.
1738
02:04:22.800 --> 02:04:26.955
But I have 4 mics set up. I have a really nice venue set up.
1739
02:04:27.975 --> 02:04:32.074
I think it's it's gonna be a 100,000 sats a person, like, $40 a person.
1740
02:04:35.540 --> 02:04:39.160
And once it covers cost, the remainder is just gonna go into beer.
1741
02:04:40.660 --> 02:04:44.605
So if you're interested in that, just stay tuned. I'll probably
1742
02:04:45.305 --> 02:04:48.125
I gotta spin up a BTC pay for it. I haven't yet.
1743
02:04:50.025 --> 02:04:51.965
I'll have it I'll have it up by
1744
02:04:52.330 --> 02:04:53.070
by next
1745
02:04:53.610 --> 02:04:59.230
week. So just, pay attention to that and just be aware that that April 5th, there'll be an in person dispatch,
1746
02:05:00.225 --> 02:05:08.965
in Miami right before bid devs, and then you can just roll into bid devs afterwards if you if you wanna do that as well, which I strongly I strongly advise. But devs is fucking awesome.
1747
02:05:11.460 --> 02:05:16.200
Awesome. Well, much love, brother. Thanks again for joining us, and, thank you to all the freaks. Cheers.
1748
02:05:17.460 --> 02:05:17.960
Cheers.
1749
02:07:18.380 --> 02:07:19.520
It'll take me away.
1750
02:07:21.500 --> 02:07:22.719
It'll take me away.
1751
02:07:24.815 --> 02:07:25.955
Take me away.
1752
02:09:06.215 --> 02:09:07.355
Much love, freaks.
1753
02:09:08.614 --> 02:09:12.155
Hope you enjoyed that rip as much as I did. Rockstar's a legend.
1754
02:09:13.429 --> 02:09:15.770
I'll see you on Tuesday for another dispatch.
1755
02:09:17.510 --> 02:09:18.010
Thursday,
1756
02:09:18.389 --> 02:09:22.250
it's gonna be an in person rip with me and Marty for a rabbit hole recap,
1757
02:09:25.355 --> 02:09:28.815
and then going to BitDevs in Austin. And then we have
1758
02:09:29.435 --> 02:09:30.415
Bitcoin takeover
1759
02:09:31.400 --> 02:09:32.220
on Friday,
1760
02:09:33.720 --> 02:09:35.580
in Austin at the Bitcoin Commons.
1761
02:09:36.440 --> 02:09:42.114
Me and Marty are hosting that. We have an insane lineup of panelists that will be joining us. It's almost like
1762
02:09:43.455 --> 02:09:47.635
a super meetup or a mini conference. I don't know. Like, 200 people.
1763
02:09:48.655 --> 02:09:49.395
Be good.
1764
02:09:49.860 --> 02:09:50.100
And,
1765
02:09:50.900 --> 02:09:53.400
stay on both. Love you all. Cheers.
