March 9, 2022
CD58: ronindojo, privacy, and freedom tech with @GuerraMoneta, @BrotherRabbit_, and @rottenwheel
EPISODE: 58
BLOCK: 726473
PRICE: 2594 sats per dollar
TOPICS: ronindojo, privacy, freedom tech, crossing borders, adversarial environments, KYC risks to individuals and the network, bitcoin culture
https://citadeldispatch.com/cd58
@GuerraMoneta: https://twitter.com/GuerraMoneta
@BrotherRabbit_: https://twitter.com/BrotherRabbit_
@rottenwheel: https://twitter.com/rottenwheel
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40:09 - Tools and tactics for navigating heavy financial censorship and surveillance
51:47 - Crossing borders with cash and Bitcoin
58:23 - Stashing seeds and keeping them secure
01:15:32 - The problem with the 'number go up' narrative
01:26:41 - The attack and threat of KYC on Bitcoin
01:44:28 - No KYC service Azteco
01:46:11 - Regulatory burden on individual vendors
01:49:04 - FTX CEO Brett Harrison's thread on AML and sanctions
WEBVTT
NOTE
Transcription provided by Podhome.fm
Created: 3/17/2024 4:28:39 PM
Duration: 8480.235
Channels: 1
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Like listening to him. I feel like he's in command and control. He gets these things. He's also pretty smart about how he says things politically,
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may not be ready to shake the markets and say we're gonna do this pretty steadfast,
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with all of these rate hikes coming through. I didn't get the sense listening to him that they are going to go that much slower. I it it
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to me kind of reading through and listening
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to hours of that testimony yesterday,
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it sounded to me like, yeah,
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He he knows that this is an issue. He knows that they need to be moving on this, and he's not gonna say anything to shake the markets up right now. But that was just my interpretation. How about how about yours? Well, well, certainly, we saw when the 2 year rate went up 18 basis point when he opened up the fact that we're gonna have to go faster,
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I think that the the market said that. But we also have to admit, Becky, that the Fed has been terribly
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wrong
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over the last year. I mean, all this temporary inflation,
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look at their projections for inflation that they did last year,
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so way below,
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what actually happened all the way to December.
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You know, and and listen. Jay Powell is a very, very good man. He's a good communicator,
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but but the Fed has been very wrong. And and they're gonna have to to catch up. And they're gonna have to and and really have to admit,
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bite we gotta bite the bullet here. We gotta defend the dollar
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here.
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Is it that you can do 25% of points? Over.
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We gotta defend the we gotta defend the dollar.
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Take 2.
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Happy Bitcoin Tuesday, freaks. It's your boy Odell here for Citadel dispatch 58.
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Citadel dispatch is an interactive live show about Bitcoin distributed systems privacy and open source software.
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As always, I'd like to thank
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all the freaks who continue to support this show. Dispatch is a 100% audience funded without ads or sponsors,
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purely focused on actionable Bitcoin discussion.
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Easiest way to support the show is through podcasting 2 point o apps. My two favorite are Breezewallet
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and Fountain Podcasts.
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They work like traditional podcast apps,
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except you load them up with Sats.
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So you load them up with Sats, search still dispatch, click the subscribe button, then you basically pick
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how many sats per minute you think,
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dispatch is worth, and then as you're listening, it automatically will stream stats directly to my note.
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You can also support the show using,
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my bit 47 pay NIM, which is Odell.
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That's linked at sill dispatch.com
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as well as my BTCPay
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instance that allows you, to support the show,
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via Onchain or Lightning,
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all Bitcoin.
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Dispatch is broadcast on Twitch,
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Twitter, and Bitcoin TV.com.
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All archives are at Bitcoin TV.com
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after the fact.
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The Twitch is twitch.tv/dispatch.
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I am no longer broadcasting through YouTube
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because they can go fuck themselves.
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So with all that said,
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this is a conversation that I'm looking forward to greatly.
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It might not be with necessarily
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the most well known names,
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but they've all become friends,
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over time.
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I like to think, that they're freaks and they listen to the show as well.
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And they just have a lot of very interesting opinions,
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and
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they do a lot of work in
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in terms of education and and and building in the space. So I'm very excited for this conversation. I think we're gonna have,
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it's gonna be unique. It's gonna be
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maybe a little bit disjointed, maybe a little bit organic in proper dispatch fashion,
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But,
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it's gonna be a fun one, and hopefully, you guys find it enjoyable and helpful.
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So with all that said,
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our first guest is Guera Moneta.
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Guera, what's up?
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Hey, man. How's it going? Thanks for having me on.
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How's it going, Guera?
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And we have Brother Rabbit. What's up, Brother Rabbit?
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Hey, man. How's it going?
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Good to be here.
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Cheers. And we have Rod and Will. What's up, Rod and Will?
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Happy to be here.
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Thank you.
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Fuck, yes.
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So brother brother Rabbit and Guero Manera are,
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involved in the Ronin Dojo project, the Ronin Dojo full known project.
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I they recently came out, with a prebuilt version of their node. It's a free open source software, so you can actually run it all yourself on your own hardware,
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but they also now have a pre built version. I have it right behind me.
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You can't see that because this is not a
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camera enabled show, but it is there.
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So I figure we'll start the conversation with that, and then we'll see kind of where it takes us.
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So with all that said,
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Gwer or Brother Rabbit, you wanna start off with why someone should be interested in the Ronin Dojo project in the first place?
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Yeah. I'll I'll jump in. And also gotta do the obligatory
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opening the beer.
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Let's fucking go.
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Everyone's drinking today.
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Awesome. Awesome. So, for anyone who hasn't heard of running Dojo project,
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like Matt was saying, we are a privacy focused
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Bitcoin full node implementation,
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and we're trying to make,
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running a Bitcoin full node that enables your privacy as easy as possible.
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We're hoping that we could get all the way to a plug and play experience that's smooth, where anyone can run a node.
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But that's not all we're focused on.
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We're we're a hardware and software company, so we're constantly building new software.
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We have new hardware products that are coming, like steel backup,
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plates, and
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we're we're gonna offer services like premium support
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to help people on the long journey to learning about privacy.
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So really, in short, Ronin Dojo as a company is your one stop shop for Bitcoin privacy
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and getting started using Bitcoin like it's cash.
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Awesome.
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Yeah. I mean, I
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my package had the metal backups in it as well. Is that is that normal? Or That was part of the,
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holiday bundle that we did. If you ordered before a certain date, each node came with a plate.
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You know, it's pretty clever, the whole, like, sticker thing on the metal plate.
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I wasn't really sold on it at first, but I I kinda dig it now.
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Yeah. And I think we'll offer a few different options.
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Self custody is super important along with privacy.
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So,
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whether you wanna use, like, a sticker you can peel off and be a little more secret, or if you want to use, like, an engraved one where those lines are, you know, acid etched.
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Really, it's just about, you know, what are you comfortable with? What's your threat model?
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You know, is somebody gonna find that plate or not, and you can kinda, you know, adjust your strategy accordingly.
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Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so let's just talk about that real quick.
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Most,
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Bitcoin wallets
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have,
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a seed backup.
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Your secret words, they're either 12 or 24 words.
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You can obvious you should never put that on a
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online computer.
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You shouldn't save that in your Apple notes. You shouldn't save that on your in your Google Drive.
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You should keep it offline.
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That means you could either write it on a piece of paper, but paper obviously
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can get damaged by water or fire. So what a lot of people do is they will stamp it into steel.
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Most steel backups,
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as Guero said, have these, like,
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laser etched lines,
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indicating, you know, which word you are engraving.
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With with Ronin Dojo's backup,
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it's just a blank piece of steel.
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So when you're done with it, it and and you put, like, this this sticker on top of it that has the guidelines, so then you use a punch. You use this, like, hole punch to to punch the dots in the steel. And when you remove the sticker, it just looks like a like a piece of steel with, like, braille in it or something.
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I guess some people might still know what they're looking for there, but it just adds, like, another level of
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plausible deniability if someone just, like, comes across it. But you should regardless, you should, you know, keep it physically secure where, like, no one can get to it,
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at least easily.
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But that is kind of, like, a secondary thing. I mean, the main thing here is the node,
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and I know you guys have been working really hard on it.
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You know, what makes this node different? What makes this you know, there's a bunch of people who have a bunch of different options.
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I had a sale of dispatch where we had a bunch of different node teams on, 247 node teams,
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like Woah and and Zelco from your team were there representing Ronan Dojo.
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So if people want, like,
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if if if people wanna see, like, a comparison between the other projects, they can go and check out that episode.
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But
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but your work, you know, what makes it unique?
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Yeah. Yeah. So we have a strong focus on Samurais Wallet, of course. So, you know, I can go ahead and say if you want Bitcoin privacy and you wanna use samurai wallet,
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you know, we're the best node project in the space for it as far as uptime goes, as far as stability,
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as far as customer support.
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Most of the other nodes really are just stuffing a lot of apps in there
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and having stability issues.
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And, you know, if you want help with Samurais Wallet, there's no one around to help you out, or some of them haven't even written guides or wikis on how to do it either.
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So just starting there as a samurai user, it's a very
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advantageous setup.
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On top of that, you know, we have
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a Whirlpool built in. It's deployed right whenever you set up the node
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so you can mix 247.
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You don't need to keep your samurai
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app open to do whirlpool.
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You know, you can remotely access it anywhere in the world over tour.
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We don't, you know, cop out and
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have any kind of, like,
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any security holes, anything that could be considered and insecure, like leaving the firewall open,
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like leaving the SSH port open,
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we don't let you access it in ways that, could damage your privacy.
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Every single step, you know, your privacy is taken into account. And everywhere we can, we, you know, run things through Tor.
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Even if Tor is a little bit slower,
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sometimes it's the best option if you're remote.
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On top of that, we have really high quality hardware.
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I believe we're one of the only nodes using m.2
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and BME drives.
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We got great,
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customer support as far as hardware goes. You know, we'll mail you out a replacement if there's an issue.
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Usually, we can have stuff arrive within 2 to 3 days in the states.
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And, yeah, that that's a good starting point. Brother Rabbit, you got any more?
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Yeah. I was gonna say that, you know, abstracting sort of all the technicals away. You mentioned about sort of closing ports to SSH and whatnot. I think it's worth sort of mentioning
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that this is all by default, isn't it? So,
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those that would have received a Tanto, the lucky ones that, were in the US,
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The idea behind the Tanto is sort of a a plug and play node. So
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those,
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to date that are familiar with Ronan Dojo
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will be familiar with flashing like a a micro SD card, getting their hardware, you know, ordering their hardware off off the Internet,
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flashing the micro SD,
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and then having to go straight into the command line
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and,
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initiate,
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the man the manjaro setup.
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So with with the the tanto in particular,
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the idea of of about,
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you know, being a plug and play node is that, you know, it arrives in the post,
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and you simply just plug it into the ethernet cable,
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plug an ethernet cable into it, and a and a power supply.
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And, within 10 minutes,
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the lights on the node should turn on, and, the initialization sequence starts.
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And, you know, you're you're up and running within
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within a matter of minutes. Now for for those that are a little bit more sort of, privacy conscious aware or, like to verify the images themselves, you know, you don't have to the the node does come with a pre flashed,
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micro SD card, but, if you want, you can open up the bottom after receiving it and flash the image yourself,
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verifying it first, of course,
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and then plugging in the power supply and Ethernet cable.
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So, yeah, like I said, within about 10 minutes,
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you can go to your local browser,
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of which,
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Pavel,
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who, I think that you've had on have you had on, had Pavel on dispatch? I have not had Pavel on yet.
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Oh, well, he's a he's a UI wiz, that's for sure.
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And he was fucking gorgeous.
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It's nice, isn't it? So within a matter of minutes, you know, you can get into your UI and you've got a a dashboard that says,
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you know, what the IBD is on, where the indexer is at, and then you can pay your your your samurai wallet.
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So it's it's just sort of trying to get to a,
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a place where, you know, running a node is is a lot easier for the user because,
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you know, if you're
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these things can be a bit a bit sort of a bit technical for for those that that are told to that they should run a node, but they don't quite understand or feel like they've got the ability to do so.
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Yeah. That's perfect.
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And to expand on that, I just shared
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a a tweet in the chat. I'll share it again.
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It's all about,
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just shared it right there.
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It's all about making this easier. Like, in that tweet,
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I listed 5 steps.
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And, really, it should be that simple. You should be able to flash the phone or buy a phone that has Kallax on it. You should be able to plug the note in and it's set up. Just download the wallet, engrave your piece of steel, and you're go. You know, you got the Freedom phone. You've got the Freedom money. You're connected to your own node.
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And it really should be that simple to get off of 0 and get started and, you know, be set up within a day or 2.
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So, like, a couple,
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things to note here. First of all,
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why would someone use your their own node
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to use the Bitcoin network?
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You connect to the Bitcoin network through a node. If you don't use your own node, you're using someone else's node.
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You're trusting that person or entity that's running the node with your privacy and with verification.
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If that node provider is,
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pressured or compromised,
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data on you and your Bitcoin transactions,
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can also be compromised, so it's important to use your own node.
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You guys make it extremely easy in that respect.
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It's as simple as you just plug this thing in,
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you wait for it to sync,
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and then a QR code shows on on the web browser screen,
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and you just scan that QR code with Samura Wallet, and it automatically connects,
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to your own node through Tor. So I really think that
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that QR code connection mechanism
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is,
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vastly underrated. It's a fantastic way of
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simplifying the UX in terms of using your own node.
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And then the other thing you guys did mention is, I mean,
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the Tanto or the Tanto,
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like, the actual hardware case is fucking fire,
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or I guess the opposite of fire. It's it's, you know, a single block of aluminum, basically, so it acts as a heat sink. So it's fanless
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and just feels really good in the hand. I don't know how often people are actually holding their note in their hand,
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but it doesn't feel really nice. Have to go for something that was, like, Mac mini level premium.
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Because you know how people get about their hardware. They want it they want it sleek, and they want it sexy.
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Otherwise, it just feels
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cheap.
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And I don't know about you guys, but, you know, with with my notes that they're used to being sat in the sort of corner of the room, sort of collecting dust that I need to sort of
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wipe out every now and again.
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But, you know, with the with the tanto, it's not only well, I'll tell you this.
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The first thing q and a did when he got his tanto was put it on the kitchen scales,
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because it is quite weighty, isn't it, Matt, when you when you sort of hold it? But the the the aluminium
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case acts as like a passive heat sink, so,
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you know, I'm just looking at my Ronin Dojo,
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UI at the moment, and mine's running at 38 degrees, you know, without a fan, and it's sort of warm to the touch.
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So the whole the whole unit acts as like a a passive power is a passive heat sink,
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pulling the heat away.
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So it is it is a beautiful piece of art, really.
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Rod and wheel, do you have a Tanto?
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No.
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I have,
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I actually won some
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contest, something with Bitcoin enemies, and I won the the Gons and Bitcoin treated printed case.
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So I I
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I practically do have a Tanto, but it's not in that Tanto case. It's in another case. But, yes, I do have a running w.
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And a little bit a little bit on top of what you all have said,
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speaking from experience,
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I appreciate that Samurai does provide users with their own
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node, and it's easy just to get it started,
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on Samurai
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even if the user does not run their own full node.
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But ever since I started using running Dojo both on the Virgin wallet and the preexisting wallet.
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The connection is way faster.
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In terms of speed, I I
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do notice the the change.
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So it's it's great. Not only you're autonomous,
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but your your speed handling transactions
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and fetching,
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transaction history
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increases a lot.
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And I think it's worth saying, isn't it? That, you know, we we sort of very, Ronin Dojo is very samurai wallet focused,
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but, you know, we have the ability to, change the indexer. In fact, the tantos come,
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with, Electrum Rust Server as the default.
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And, you know, you can connect connect
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other other wallets to it, including, you know, a Sparrow wallet. I've been,
286
00:20:02.195 --> 00:20:04.535
playing with that for the last sort of couple of months
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since, Craig introduced,
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Whirlpool back in September last year.
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So, you know, it it it it gives the ability to to connect to other wallets,
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but still have a sort of stable node stable node backing it.
291
00:20:19.195 --> 00:20:20.335
Yeah. Because it has,
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you can very easily use it with other nodes other,
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pieces of software that are on chain based. Most of them use the Electrum standard.
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With something like Sparrow, it's as simple as just pasting the Electris on onion address directly into Sparrow, and then it'll use your own node going forward. Sparrow's a desktop wallet. Highly recommend. Fantastic.
295
00:20:46.365 --> 00:20:50.305
As as for, you know, a lot of freaks might be thinking about lightning.
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They might be thinking about some of the
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other non necessarily Bitcoin specific things that
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Umbrel and,
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00:20:59.870 --> 00:21:00.370
Start9,
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have built into their packages or even something like maybe Raspberry Blitz that has a lot of other Bitcoin specific stuff.
301
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Would you guys agree
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that it kinda makes sense
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if if if a user is using samurai,
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they're using the samurai stack
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00:21:19.195 --> 00:21:28.870
to have a Ronin Dojo, use that dedicated for the samurai stack. And And then if you wanna run other things, you know, then you have a separate box that's running the other things.
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00:21:29.570 --> 00:21:30.070
Yes.
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From a security perspective, absolutely.
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Stuffing all those apps on one box
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is
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even if that you claim that you're using Docker containers
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to separate them, there's still
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exploits found all the time for crazy stuff, like privilege escalation
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and arbitrary code execution
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between containers,
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and it it's just too risky.
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And, you know, I'll go ahead and say there's a reason why,
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roll on their
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read me. It says it's not a 100% secure, and you shouldn't put more funds on there than you're willing to lose.
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And I believe that warning is still on their
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GitHub today,
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and that's the proper thing to do. Anytime you're introducing
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more attack vectors like that,
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you need to be careful.
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So if you're playing around and experimenting,
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yeah, sure stuff all your apps on one box. But if it's
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your livelihood
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and your everything that involves your financial data,
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that should really be isolated
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on one box.
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00:22:40.895 --> 00:22:52.950
And, I mean, the security is a very valid reason, but I would also say there's a reason there from a, like, a reliability point of view. Oh, yes. Stability is another thing. We get lots of people coming to Ronan Dojo,
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who are I guess we'll call them refugees.
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And
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we know whenever you're stuffing all those apps in there, stability
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goes out the window very quick, or at least it takes a while to dial that in and have a good user experience.
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Yeah. You'll often see me sort of in the in the chats,
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talking to users here and there.
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And, you know, when when,
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unfortunately, when when you see maybe, like, another node implementation,
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that that that has that has the ability to back your samurai wallet to the node,
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when they often fall into issues,
341
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because,
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those other node projects support so many of apps as well. Now they're not as focused on,
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sort of on chain privacy or specifically
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supporting Dojo or samurai wallet.
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So, you know, it becomes very difficult to troubleshoot those users,
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00:23:48.034 --> 00:23:49.894
who often haven't done anything wrong.
347
00:23:50.240 --> 00:23:54.340
They've just been, you know, operating their node as it's meant to be operated. So
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I think, you know, what Ronin Dojo prides itself on is,
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maintaining, you know, high up time for for when you need it the most. And, you know, when you when you go to push a transaction,
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you know, you want it to work as silly as it sounds or when you want to use Whirlpool,
351
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and, you know, leave your SAPS mixing 247
352
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on your node.
353
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You know, you want it to work and be reliable. So,
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you know, supporting
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00:24:20.895 --> 00:24:21.795
loads of other,
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apps, although,
357
00:24:23.890 --> 00:24:26.390
you know, it's nice to play around and tinker,
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for some users,
359
00:24:28.929 --> 00:24:31.350
you know, you can often fall into pitfalls with troubleshooting.
360
00:24:31.904 --> 00:24:32.804
Yeah. And I mean, specifically,
361
00:24:34.225 --> 00:24:36.644
in this case, when it comes to CoinJoin,
362
00:24:36.945 --> 00:24:39.924
I mean, the cool part about Whirlpool's CoinJoin implementation,
363
00:24:40.250 --> 00:24:43.470
there's multiple different CoinJoin implementations. CoinJoin is
364
00:24:43.770 --> 00:24:48.510
I mean, I think most of the freaks at this point know what CoinJoin is, but it's a collaborative transaction,
365
00:24:49.685 --> 00:24:55.705
where you and multiple other people are sending Bitcoin transactions at the same time to improve your privacy.
366
00:24:57.420 --> 00:24:59.200
Whirlpool's CoinJoin implementation
367
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has a flat fee,
368
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and then after that, you can remix for free. So you keep joining coin join rounds. And as a result, to take full advantage of it, you really want Whirlpool to be running 247.
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So what I've noticed with some of the other,
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00:25:17.530 --> 00:25:23.455
node implementations when you're running, you know, Whirlpool on them is they'll lock up and they'll freeze up,
371
00:25:23.915 --> 00:25:33.800
and you don't really realize it because it's not like an active process. It's something you're just going about your life, and in the background, you're just assuming that you're you're getting these free remixes,
372
00:25:34.340 --> 00:25:39.320
and then you realize, like, 4 days later or 5 days later that the Whirlpool process stopped.
373
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So, like, that reliability
374
00:25:41.405 --> 00:25:46.465
there is is crucial so that you can, you know, just live your life and have some peace of mind
375
00:25:47.780 --> 00:25:52.440
that that it is coin joining in the background without having to constantly check it and troubleshoot it.
376
00:25:54.180 --> 00:25:58.245
Another thing I wanted to discuss before we move on from Ronan Dojo,
377
00:25:59.505 --> 00:26:03.765
is one of the topics we talk about in dispatch a lot is monetizing
378
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free and open source projects.
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Free and open source projects
380
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are
381
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inherently,
382
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by design,
383
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free to,
384
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copy, modify, distribute.
385
00:26:16.035 --> 00:26:18.775
So as a result, you don't have the
386
00:26:19.155 --> 00:26:22.775
ability to kind of have the vendor lock in that you see with proprietary
387
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product.
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And as a result, you see a lot of donation
389
00:26:28.330 --> 00:26:33.630
methods used to kind of support these free and open source projects. It's one of the reasons I started OpenSats.
390
00:26:34.585 --> 00:26:38.685
It's also one of the reasons why SIL dispatch is a 100% audience funded.
391
00:26:39.945 --> 00:26:42.445
But you guys have, I mean, 2 interesting
392
00:26:44.120 --> 00:26:44.620
monetization
393
00:26:44.920 --> 00:26:48.060
schemes. 1st, obviously, this prebuilt node that we've been discussing,
394
00:26:48.600 --> 00:26:53.595
but the other one that I found really interesting is this paid support model. You wanna talk about that a little bit?
395
00:26:54.375 --> 00:27:01.360
Yeah. We're kind of in the middle of overhauling that right now, and we have some news coming soon about it as we migrate to a new,
396
00:27:01.660 --> 00:27:02.480
support portal.
397
00:27:03.020 --> 00:27:11.405
But, yeah, I think one of the great ways to give away software for free and monetize is through offering services, like,
398
00:27:12.345 --> 00:27:14.925
guided support, like walk throughs, setups,
399
00:27:16.509 --> 00:27:21.330
or even people building their own nodes that just need a little bit of command line help.
400
00:27:22.350 --> 00:27:23.330
A lot of people
401
00:27:23.755 --> 00:27:25.775
don't know where to find solutions,
402
00:27:26.155 --> 00:27:27.775
and they're tired of looking.
403
00:27:28.155 --> 00:27:32.255
You know, their time is more valuable than spending hours googling stuff,
404
00:27:33.020 --> 00:27:37.120
and they're willing to pay, you know, 25, 50, $60,
405
00:27:38.540 --> 00:27:40.320
to get a certain amount of support
406
00:27:40.725 --> 00:27:43.225
and have, you know, a support person there
407
00:27:43.764 --> 00:27:48.904
within a short amount of time, who's ready to whether it's voice chat or,
408
00:27:49.540 --> 00:27:51.560
through, you know, through Telegram or whatever,
409
00:27:52.820 --> 00:27:57.080
you'd be surprised how many people are willing to pay for that kind of service.
410
00:27:59.555 --> 00:28:01.975
Yeah. I feel like it's win win for everyone involved.
411
00:28:02.515 --> 00:28:04.175
Yep. Yep. And,
412
00:28:04.755 --> 00:28:09.670
obviously, we have some other tactics that we're working on to continue to monetize.
413
00:28:11.090 --> 00:28:14.470
But, yeah, it's it's tough to give away software for free
414
00:28:14.825 --> 00:28:17.565
and keep a roof over your head while you're doing it.
415
00:28:18.745 --> 00:28:23.325
So the more kind of little techniques like this that we can come up with to
416
00:28:24.570 --> 00:28:27.230
extract a little bit of money here and there.
417
00:28:28.330 --> 00:28:33.150
You know, we think it'll be enough to have, you know, a small little company and pay a few people.
418
00:28:33.595 --> 00:28:35.695
And it's not easy, but it's definitely possible.
419
00:28:37.915 --> 00:28:43.375
And then the the hardware, you know, the hardware itself is is sort of a way to monetize through,
420
00:28:44.300 --> 00:28:46.140
you know, selling a piece of kit that,
421
00:28:46.700 --> 00:28:49.260
you know, is unique on the market, so to speak. And,
422
00:28:51.135 --> 00:28:56.595
it is, you know, is is a very nice piece of hardware that is is both sort of powerful and practical.
423
00:28:57.135 --> 00:28:57.635
So,
424
00:28:58.335 --> 00:29:02.350
you know, even if you've been a a long standing Ronin Dojo user,
425
00:29:03.530 --> 00:29:10.265
to which, you know, when the when the presale went live in in December, there were many existing Ronin Dojo users,
426
00:29:11.125 --> 00:29:14.425
that that pre ordered a Tanto, to which have now been delivered.
427
00:29:15.429 --> 00:29:20.470
And that sort of as a a way of, those users showing sort of their appreciation for,
428
00:29:21.190 --> 00:29:22.409
for Ronin Dojo.
429
00:29:27.885 --> 00:29:31.745
I mean, a common question that's gonna happen after this discussion
430
00:29:32.045 --> 00:29:32.545
is,
431
00:29:33.570 --> 00:29:36.070
the Tanto is out of stock on your website.
432
00:29:37.010 --> 00:29:37.510
When
433
00:29:37.970 --> 00:29:40.549
how when when are they gonna be back in stock?
434
00:29:41.745 --> 00:29:45.764
Come to our booth in Miami. If you're going to BTC 2022,
435
00:29:46.625 --> 00:29:49.044
you can't miss our booth. It's gonna be huge.
436
00:29:49.860 --> 00:29:52.120
We will have tantos on the show
437
00:29:52.820 --> 00:29:53.320
floor.
438
00:29:55.140 --> 00:29:58.035
Maybe shortly before that, sales will go up
439
00:29:58.835 --> 00:30:00.855
to start selling some on our shop again,
440
00:30:01.235 --> 00:30:05.255
but we will not ship them until we get back from the Miami conference.
441
00:30:06.090 --> 00:30:08.670
That's April 6th through 9th. V.tc/conference.
442
00:30:10.890 --> 00:30:13.470
Code open source gets you 21% off.
443
00:30:13.865 --> 00:30:17.885
Don't share that code on Twitter. Otherwise, it'll get cut off as well.
444
00:30:19.145 --> 00:30:23.325
And Goro's gonna be speaking on the open source stage, which I'm very excited about.
445
00:30:23.760 --> 00:30:25.460
Yeah. You're hosting that. Right?
446
00:30:26.240 --> 00:30:27.380
I'm trying to.
447
00:30:28.080 --> 00:30:34.285
Okay. Yeah. I know you're gonna have a hell of a week, man. I'm hosting all 3 days of the open source stage.
448
00:30:35.625 --> 00:30:39.780
So I'm not sure if which panels I will be moderating,
449
00:30:40.240 --> 00:30:43.620
but I'm basically putting together the whole open source stage. It's like,
450
00:30:44.960 --> 00:30:47.380
I mean, the open source stage itself is gonna
451
00:30:51.365 --> 00:30:52.985
conferences that have ever existed
452
00:30:53.365 --> 00:30:53.865
within
453
00:30:54.779 --> 00:31:00.399
the largest Bitcoin conference that has ever existed. Because the the open source conference hall is
454
00:31:01.260 --> 00:31:03.760
like, the fire code says 2,000 people.
455
00:31:06.125 --> 00:31:12.065
We're gonna have it set up with a little less than a 1000 seats and 12 workshop tables, so they'll be like
456
00:31:12.524 --> 00:31:13.825
it won't feel cramped,
457
00:31:14.200 --> 00:31:20.220
especially after last year where we were in that tiny little tent. Oh, hell no. That was terrible.
458
00:31:21.240 --> 00:31:23.340
So, like, I made I made sure to go
459
00:31:23.835 --> 00:31:25.215
go as big as possible,
460
00:31:27.195 --> 00:31:27.515
and,
461
00:31:27.995 --> 00:31:30.015
there's gonna be 3 days of straight,
462
00:31:30.875 --> 00:31:31.375
content
463
00:31:31.860 --> 00:31:32.679
that it is,
464
00:31:33.460 --> 00:31:36.200
dedicated content for open source projects and contributors.
465
00:31:36.820 --> 00:31:39.559
So the first day will be, like, highly technical stuff,
466
00:31:40.155 --> 00:31:49.535
and then the next 2 days will be a little will be more accessible content. But, basically, in practice, it's it's gonna be, like, 3 days of serial dispatch content.
467
00:31:50.700 --> 00:31:55.260
So I'm pretty excited about that. But it's a it's been a big haul, and it's gonna be
468
00:31:55.900 --> 00:31:59.595
and stress is high right now, and it's only gonna get higher
469
00:32:00.295 --> 00:32:03.675
and a lot of moving parts. But I'm I'm very excited about it.
470
00:32:04.135 --> 00:32:05.895
I feel you on that one, man.
471
00:32:06.750 --> 00:32:12.210
And quick to touch on it, if anybody here has not really jumped into open source,
472
00:32:13.790 --> 00:32:14.770
it's really important.
473
00:32:15.315 --> 00:32:20.135
You know, if you are looking for something to do, looking for a hobby,
474
00:32:20.595 --> 00:32:26.169
you know, if you just got Bitcoin rich and, you know, you need some something to do on the side,
475
00:32:26.630 --> 00:32:31.130
I really suggest looking into how to contribute to an open source project.
476
00:32:32.475 --> 00:32:35.934
It could be something you find useful or maybe you just wanna
477
00:32:36.395 --> 00:32:42.560
help them out. But I I just linked in the chat a little page we have that talks about,
478
00:32:43.260 --> 00:32:44.720
how anyone really can
479
00:32:45.100 --> 00:32:46.560
support open source.
480
00:32:47.180 --> 00:32:53.424
You don't have to be a coder. You could have graphic design skills. You could be messing with 3 d printers,
481
00:32:54.445 --> 00:32:54.945
whatever.
482
00:32:55.405 --> 00:32:58.465
And, you know, I can say for the Ronin Dojo project,
483
00:32:58.850 --> 00:33:00.630
we would not exist without
484
00:33:01.250 --> 00:33:03.990
all of the amazing volunteers who've came together
485
00:33:04.370 --> 00:33:05.750
seemingly out of nowhere.
486
00:33:06.210 --> 00:33:08.470
You know, we had devs and
487
00:33:09.534 --> 00:33:11.715
a hardware developer out of Taiwan,
488
00:33:12.654 --> 00:33:16.514
and all these volunteers came together, assembled the Wiki and
489
00:33:17.809 --> 00:33:18.710
working support,
490
00:33:19.010 --> 00:33:19.510
and
491
00:33:20.049 --> 00:33:22.150
it's all mostly donation based.
492
00:33:22.610 --> 00:33:23.110
And
493
00:33:23.490 --> 00:33:25.990
somehow it just came out of nowhere and works.
494
00:33:26.914 --> 00:33:28.455
Open source really is magic,
495
00:33:28.835 --> 00:33:32.294
and you can there's so many ways to dive in and help out
496
00:33:32.835 --> 00:33:35.870
on that, page I just linked in the chat.
497
00:33:36.250 --> 00:33:37.150
Ronan dojo Ronan
498
00:33:38.090 --> 00:33:38.590
dojo.io
499
00:33:39.290 --> 00:33:40.270
slash contribute.
500
00:33:40.650 --> 00:33:44.510
Yeah. If you go to Ronan dojo dot I o slash contribute, you'll see,
501
00:33:45.095 --> 00:33:49.115
there's other links on there, like, how you can get involved in open source in general
502
00:33:49.655 --> 00:33:50.554
and some strategies.
503
00:33:51.575 --> 00:33:53.515
But, yeah, I just had to plug that because,
504
00:33:53.870 --> 00:33:55.410
you know, the only reason that
505
00:33:55.950 --> 00:33:59.810
this space is even alive is because of a lot of volunteer effort,
506
00:34:00.510 --> 00:34:01.970
for free software building
507
00:34:02.555 --> 00:34:03.295
and more.
508
00:34:05.195 --> 00:34:06.655
If if I can,
509
00:34:07.435 --> 00:34:07.935
because,
510
00:34:08.475 --> 00:34:10.655
of course, there is always this question.
511
00:34:12.470 --> 00:34:14.970
We we were looking forward to running wiwi,
512
00:34:17.430 --> 00:34:18.150
b 2,
513
00:34:18.470 --> 00:34:19.370
for months.
514
00:34:20.015 --> 00:34:22.035
Is there any, I don't know,
515
00:34:23.455 --> 00:34:25.235
hints, any news, any
516
00:34:25.535 --> 00:34:27.795
forthcoming features that you can
517
00:34:28.335 --> 00:34:30.030
leak here or no?
518
00:34:31.050 --> 00:34:36.430
Kind of. If you go to the Ronin dojo dot I o website, you'll see some screenshots
519
00:34:37.675 --> 00:34:39.615
of the UI
520
00:34:40.155 --> 00:34:41.615
that has some functionality
521
00:34:42.234 --> 00:34:44.175
that's not in the UI yet.
522
00:34:44.940 --> 00:34:48.880
So you can kind of get some hints to what is coming based on those screenshots.
523
00:34:49.420 --> 00:34:50.800
I can't get too specific,
524
00:34:52.924 --> 00:34:55.904
but you will be able to install applications,
525
00:34:57.325 --> 00:34:59.825
via the user interface. I can say that.
526
00:35:00.890 --> 00:35:04.750
We also have some features coming that are specific to,
527
00:35:05.770 --> 00:35:08.010
coin join and things like,
528
00:35:09.015 --> 00:35:10.315
calculating your entropy,
529
00:35:11.335 --> 00:35:12.795
so you don't have to use
530
00:35:13.335 --> 00:35:13.835
KYCP,
531
00:35:15.494 --> 00:35:16.395
or OXT,
532
00:35:17.299 --> 00:35:23.079
centralized blockchain explorers. You know, that there'll be some functionality that's like that that's self hosted.
533
00:35:24.704 --> 00:35:29.924
That's great. So some some really cool things to look forward to, but I can't go any further than that.
534
00:35:30.224 --> 00:35:32.244
Oh, of course. See, it's an endless
535
00:35:32.545 --> 00:35:33.045
teasing
536
00:35:34.040 --> 00:35:34.540
session.
537
00:35:35.000 --> 00:35:40.619
Yep. Yep. That's how it goes. We just need to wait for him to get drunker, and then he'll give us he'll give us some more.
538
00:35:43.234 --> 00:35:46.195
What kind of apps you mean when you say apps, you mean the
539
00:35:46.675 --> 00:35:49.474
was is that alluding to the block explorers? Or
540
00:35:50.650 --> 00:35:53.950
that that would be things like we currently have, like, mempool
541
00:35:54.650 --> 00:35:55.150
or,
542
00:35:56.330 --> 00:35:57.390
you know, like, switching
543
00:35:57.690 --> 00:36:01.135
indexers, that kind of thing. Right now, you have to,
544
00:36:02.315 --> 00:36:03.215
there's, like,
545
00:36:04.075 --> 00:36:06.494
a application management list in the
546
00:36:07.010 --> 00:36:09.910
command line interface, but it is not in the
547
00:36:10.290 --> 00:36:13.590
the the new Ronin UI 2.0 yet. It's coming.
548
00:36:14.275 --> 00:36:17.895
That's up to Pavel whenever that gets done, but he's working on it.
549
00:36:20.435 --> 00:36:20.935
Awesome.
550
00:36:21.395 --> 00:36:21.895
Cool.
551
00:36:22.850 --> 00:36:25.830
Rod, you got any more questions before we move on from Ronan?
552
00:36:26.210 --> 00:36:27.590
No. I think I'm good.
553
00:36:29.570 --> 00:36:33.585
Brother and Gare, you got anything you wanna talk about with Ronin before we move on?
554
00:36:34.925 --> 00:36:35.905
I think covered.
555
00:36:36.285 --> 00:36:38.785
I was just gonna say, you know, if you're if you're considering
556
00:36:39.085 --> 00:36:39.805
wanting to,
557
00:36:40.310 --> 00:36:43.750
run a Ronin Dojo, then, you know, by all means, reach out or,
558
00:36:44.710 --> 00:36:46.170
there's there's sort of like
559
00:36:46.710 --> 00:36:47.610
an underground
560
00:36:48.215 --> 00:36:50.315
sort of privacy and sovereignty community,
561
00:36:51.095 --> 00:36:52.795
on sort of Telegram and Matrix.
562
00:36:54.055 --> 00:37:01.880
So, you know, if it tickles your fancy, then, you know, drop a message in one of the chats, particularly sort of the Ronin Dojo chat, and, someone can
563
00:37:02.180 --> 00:37:05.400
direct you into sort of what hardware to buy or where to start.
564
00:37:06.045 --> 00:37:08.785
How did they get to the Ronin Dojo Telegram chat?
565
00:37:09.325 --> 00:37:10.705
Someone linked at t.me/ronin
566
00:37:11.485 --> 00:37:11.985
dojonode.
567
00:37:12.685 --> 00:37:13.745
Yeah. That's the one.
568
00:37:14.365 --> 00:37:14.865
Yep.
569
00:37:15.480 --> 00:37:21.820
If you care about privacy and you wanna get started off of Xero, we're here to help you. Everybody's super friendly.
570
00:37:22.545 --> 00:37:26.245
We got the gear. We're trying to be the one stop privacy shop.
571
00:37:26.545 --> 00:37:27.685
Let's get it done. And,
572
00:37:29.265 --> 00:37:32.800
I wouldn't be Odell if I didn't also show the
573
00:37:33.260 --> 00:37:33.760
Citadel
574
00:37:34.460 --> 00:37:35.360
chat, which is,
575
00:37:35.740 --> 00:37:39.645
how people participate live in the show, but also throughout the week.
576
00:37:40.205 --> 00:37:47.745
It's just really, really great Bitcoin conversation. I've been very pleasantly surprised. We have over 700 Bitcoiners in there now,
577
00:37:48.700 --> 00:37:52.160
and it still remained high signal while Twitter has just completely
578
00:37:52.619 --> 00:37:53.680
gone to the shitter.
579
00:37:54.540 --> 00:38:06.910
So if you wanna join that, that's if you go to silo dispatch.com, just click see, they'll chat. You can join that. Awesome. Well, I appreciate all the work you guys have been doing with Ronin Dojo. It is a really fantastic piece of kit.
580
00:38:08.250 --> 00:38:09.390
I look forward to
581
00:38:09.690 --> 00:38:12.430
running this Tanto through its paces, but,
582
00:38:14.434 --> 00:38:15.795
I've graduated from my
583
00:38:16.755 --> 00:38:25.010
the the one I built myself, and I've I've always enjoyed, your project. It's it's it's really fantastic, and I the freaks know I love the samurai stack.
584
00:38:27.069 --> 00:38:28.049
Cool. So
585
00:38:29.230 --> 00:38:30.130
next discussion.
586
00:38:30.910 --> 00:38:35.405
I was, you know, I was thinking, and I talked to Rob and Weil about this ahead of time,
587
00:38:37.065 --> 00:38:38.525
with everything in the news,
588
00:38:39.680 --> 00:38:40.420
in Ukraine
589
00:38:40.880 --> 00:38:42.660
and in Russia and,
590
00:38:43.840 --> 00:38:45.380
in Canada before that,
591
00:38:47.575 --> 00:38:50.075
There are a lot of people that are
592
00:38:50.454 --> 00:38:51.994
being thrust into
593
00:38:53.550 --> 00:38:56.450
this, you know, very heavy financial censorship,
594
00:38:57.470 --> 00:38:58.690
censorship and surveillance.
595
00:39:00.110 --> 00:39:01.410
Bank accounts closed.
596
00:39:02.185 --> 00:39:04.445
In Russia, their credit cards aren't working.
597
00:39:05.625 --> 00:39:08.765
In Ukraine, there was a run on the ATMs, and, obviously,
598
00:39:09.145 --> 00:39:10.205
they're getting bombed.
599
00:39:11.170 --> 00:39:13.430
So people are trying to flee their cities,
600
00:39:14.610 --> 00:39:15.830
trying to cross borders,
601
00:39:16.290 --> 00:39:22.075
ideally, with as much of their wealth as possible, at least with spending cash so they can spend on the other side of the border.
602
00:39:23.335 --> 00:39:24.635
So I thought it'd be
603
00:39:25.015 --> 00:39:29.090
a very productive and helpful conversation to kind of talk about
604
00:39:29.550 --> 00:39:32.130
different tools and tactics people could use,
605
00:39:33.070 --> 00:39:35.010
in these types of heavy adversarial
606
00:39:35.390 --> 00:39:35.890
situations.
607
00:39:36.734 --> 00:39:40.435
And not just Bitcoin specific. Right? Because on the Bitcoin side,
608
00:39:41.455 --> 00:39:45.234
fortunately, we do have, like, a decent amount of tooling in terms of
609
00:39:48.299 --> 00:39:51.920
storing your Bitcoin offline, but also just in terms of
610
00:39:52.380 --> 00:39:53.875
general data security
611
00:39:54.175 --> 00:40:02.035
and important files and important documents, maybe even family photos and stuff that that you that you wanna keep even if you're fleeing your home
612
00:40:02.380 --> 00:40:04.160
under in an adversarial environment.
613
00:40:06.620 --> 00:40:08.000
What do you guys think about that?
614
00:40:09.265 --> 00:40:12.085
So you mean, like, on the go kits,
615
00:40:12.785 --> 00:40:13.285
like
616
00:40:13.984 --> 00:40:15.125
crossing borders,
617
00:40:15.665 --> 00:40:16.305
that kinda
618
00:40:16.800 --> 00:40:19.460
Yeah. The thought experiment that I was thinking was,
619
00:40:21.680 --> 00:40:23.060
you know, you're in Ukraine,
620
00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:25.619
you're you're living in Kiev,
621
00:40:26.245 --> 00:40:28.665
The war starts. You have a backpack.
622
00:40:29.285 --> 00:40:33.865
You're trying to get to the border. You don't know how hostile the border is gonna be when you get there.
623
00:40:34.650 --> 00:40:37.069
What do you pack in that bag? How do you do it?
624
00:40:40.730 --> 00:40:41.230
Well,
625
00:40:43.984 --> 00:40:44.484
definitely
626
00:40:45.505 --> 00:40:47.204
one of the Calix phones,
627
00:40:49.025 --> 00:40:49.525
definitely
628
00:40:49.825 --> 00:40:57.410
doing the panic button setup. Have you looked into that? The I think it's called the panic trigger or something like that. Have you seen that, Odell?
629
00:40:58.109 --> 00:40:59.170
I know it exists,
630
00:40:59.505 --> 00:41:03.444
but I haven't actually used it. What how do you initiate it?
631
00:41:04.385 --> 00:41:08.885
So yeah. Let me post the link in the chat too because it's a good one.
632
00:41:09.490 --> 00:41:13.590
I love Kallix. The freaks know I love Kallix. If you go to kallixos.org,
633
00:41:14.850 --> 00:41:15.670
it's their website,
634
00:41:15.970 --> 00:41:18.995
but basically, it's a d googled version of Android.
635
00:41:20.355 --> 00:41:23.495
So the idea with the the panic button is that you can sort of,
636
00:41:23.795 --> 00:41:24.295
preset,
637
00:41:24.915 --> 00:41:26.215
an amount of apps,
638
00:41:27.475 --> 00:41:28.135
and then
639
00:41:28.770 --> 00:41:33.830
when when you trigger the panic button, those those apps will either be sort of, they'll either disappear
640
00:41:34.130 --> 00:41:36.290
or, your that your data will be,
641
00:41:36.770 --> 00:41:38.070
erased, won't they?
642
00:41:38.755 --> 00:41:41.075
And it goes even a step further than that.
643
00:41:41.954 --> 00:41:47.780
There's certain things you can set, like a dead man switch, where if you don't check your phone within a certain amount
644
00:41:48.340 --> 00:41:51.240
of time, it wipes the phone. You could set it to, like, an hour.
645
00:41:52.740 --> 00:41:54.200
There's also a geofence
646
00:41:54.660 --> 00:41:55.160
setup
647
00:41:55.555 --> 00:41:58.215
where if the phone goes within a certain area
648
00:41:58.595 --> 00:42:01.655
or, say, was taken to a certain area from you,
649
00:42:02.195 --> 00:42:03.415
it wipes the phone.
650
00:42:04.910 --> 00:42:09.890
Is this built into Kallix, or you have to install a separate app for it? Or It's a separate app.
651
00:42:10.590 --> 00:42:14.265
There's 2 solid panic trigger apps that use what's called,
652
00:42:14.645 --> 00:42:17.145
the panic kit, now that I'm looking it up.
653
00:42:17.605 --> 00:42:20.985
There's one called panic button, and there's one called ripple.
654
00:42:22.130 --> 00:42:25.430
I think they're pretty similar. I've only checked out the ripple one.
655
00:42:25.890 --> 00:42:28.150
But, I put the link in the
656
00:42:28.645 --> 00:42:31.945
chat here for everybody to see. And how do you actually initiate it?
657
00:42:33.205 --> 00:42:40.020
Let me see here. Is it, like, clicking the power button a certain amount of times or something? Or you can think with Ripple, you can do
658
00:42:40.320 --> 00:42:41.700
pressing the power button
659
00:42:42.000 --> 00:42:42.820
5 times.
660
00:42:43.600 --> 00:42:51.625
I think you can have, like, a pull down from the, like, the top pull down menu. You can add a button in there. There's a couple different ways to do it.
661
00:42:52.890 --> 00:42:58.190
So just in general, I mean, on a on a simpler note well, first of all,
662
00:43:00.295 --> 00:43:03.675
Kallax, by default, is full disk encrypted.
663
00:43:04.295 --> 00:43:07.035
I think most modern phones are at this point,
664
00:43:08.060 --> 00:43:10.560
of varying levels of security, including iPhones.
665
00:43:11.980 --> 00:43:13.840
That encryption's only in place
666
00:43:17.015 --> 00:43:28.500
when you have the phone powered off. So in Correct. The general good rule of thumb is, like, when you are crossing borders, even if it's not in a wartime situation, even if you're not going through the TSA or something,
667
00:43:28.960 --> 00:43:30.980
is to have all your devices powered off
668
00:43:32.525 --> 00:43:34.625
before you go through those kind of checkpoints,
669
00:43:35.245 --> 00:43:36.065
if you can.
670
00:43:36.685 --> 00:43:39.585
Right. And while we're talking about phones and checkpoints,
671
00:43:41.150 --> 00:43:42.530
obviously, you gotta be careful,
672
00:43:43.070 --> 00:43:47.090
you know, how high security is this checkpoint and how deep are they gonna dig.
673
00:43:48.625 --> 00:43:52.005
Obviously, if you go through there with a freshly wiped phone
674
00:43:52.385 --> 00:43:57.845
or you set up your panic button in a way that wipes the phone to a very default looking state,
675
00:43:58.310 --> 00:43:59.690
that's gonna be pretty suspicious.
676
00:44:00.150 --> 00:44:04.490
They're gonna say, you know, why don't you have any text messages? Why don't you have,
677
00:44:04.869 --> 00:44:08.010
a gallery of pictures? You know, everyone has this stuff.
678
00:44:08.375 --> 00:44:11.435
So I've also read about people using techniques to have,
679
00:44:11.895 --> 00:44:13.595
dummy data on their phone.
680
00:44:13.895 --> 00:44:17.300
So if you're crossing a border, you know, you can hide certain apps,
681
00:44:17.780 --> 00:44:21.000
or you could reset your phone to a certain default state.
682
00:44:21.300 --> 00:44:24.120
But it's good to have, kind of, some dummy data
683
00:44:24.635 --> 00:44:32.815
to, you know so they see you've been texting your mom. You know, they see you've been taking pictures of your food for Instagram, and you look like a normal,
684
00:44:33.700 --> 00:44:36.440
person without any Bitcoin to bother them about.
685
00:44:41.575 --> 00:44:43.595
Yeah. I mean and to bring that back to Bitcoin,
686
00:44:46.454 --> 00:44:48.954
you have the ability to use something called a passphrase
687
00:44:49.290 --> 00:44:50.190
with your Bitcoin seeds.
688
00:44:50.810 --> 00:44:52.350
Samurai has it by default.
689
00:44:54.090 --> 00:44:56.350
The passphrase and practice, what you can
690
00:44:56.895 --> 00:45:03.950
what you can, think of it as is if you have a 12 word seed, the pass phrase is the 13th word, and you're choosing it.
691
00:45:05.310 --> 00:45:10.060
Obviously, it doesn't have to be a word. It probably shouldn't be a word. It should be longer than a word,
692
00:45:11.484 --> 00:45:13.665
But every time you have a different passphrase,
693
00:45:14.125 --> 00:45:17.265
you have essentially, what you have is a different wallet.
694
00:45:18.365 --> 00:45:18.865
So
695
00:45:19.280 --> 00:45:24.740
if you are carrying a seed on you, which you probably shouldn't just be carrying a bare seed, and maybe we'll talk about that too,
696
00:45:25.920 --> 00:45:28.405
you can keep a certain amount of Bitcoin.
697
00:45:28.945 --> 00:45:31.925
This is what made me think about it is because you're talking about decoy data.
698
00:45:32.225 --> 00:45:36.690
You can keep a certain amount of Bitcoin on the seed, the bear seed without the pass phrase.
699
00:45:37.170 --> 00:45:38.630
Someone finds that seed,
700
00:45:39.170 --> 00:45:44.710
they restore the seed, they see there's Bitcoin on it, they take it, they think maybe they got all of the Bitcoin,
701
00:45:45.235 --> 00:45:52.295
but, really, you have a passphrase and that's where the majority of your Bitcoin's held, or maybe you have 10 passphrases,
702
00:45:53.560 --> 00:45:55.180
and it's split across them.
703
00:45:55.640 --> 00:45:57.100
So there's a lot of different,
704
00:45:57.480 --> 00:46:00.940
methods you can employ there because of that additional passphrase.
705
00:46:03.465 --> 00:46:05.885
Yep. And that I think it's kind of
706
00:46:06.265 --> 00:46:10.445
a a combination of all these things is how you should bring your mobile device
707
00:46:11.040 --> 00:46:12.900
through a border crossing is,
708
00:46:14.560 --> 00:46:22.815
you know, maybe you should have a Bitcoin dummy wallet. So if they open the Bitcoin wallet, they think, oh, this guy has just got $200 on there,
709
00:46:23.275 --> 00:46:25.260
and, you know, they're not worried about it.
710
00:46:26.540 --> 00:46:28.560
All of these tactics can be combined
711
00:46:29.180 --> 00:46:30.640
to effectively fool
712
00:46:31.020 --> 00:46:31.920
the border crossing,
713
00:46:32.914 --> 00:46:35.654
and hopefully not look too suspicious while you're doing it.
714
00:46:36.595 --> 00:46:40.694
And I guess, unfortunately, one of the issues here is there's never gonna be a set,
715
00:46:43.579 --> 00:46:50.015
like, a set guide of of what to do and how to do it. Right? You kinda have to base it on your own threat model,
716
00:46:50.395 --> 00:46:51.214
your own
717
00:46:53.755 --> 00:46:58.320
you have you have to make your own decisions here. There's a level of personal responsibility. Right?
718
00:46:59.020 --> 00:46:59.520
Absolutely.
719
00:46:59.980 --> 00:47:01.280
Are you dealing with some
720
00:47:01.580 --> 00:47:04.400
dumbass TSA agent, or are you dealing with,
721
00:47:04.805 --> 00:47:06.984
you know, some kind of 3 letter agency?
722
00:47:07.605 --> 00:47:08.005
It's,
723
00:47:09.204 --> 00:47:12.585
you know, a real three letter agency you need to worry about, not the TSA.
724
00:47:13.430 --> 00:47:16.490
I was going to say TSA is 3 letters. So what?
725
00:47:17.510 --> 00:47:25.945
Let me let me rephrase a real agency. Someone who's that you actually have to worry about. And if you encounter someone like that, you need to be well educated.
726
00:47:26.245 --> 00:47:28.505
Otherwise, they're gonna figure you out.
727
00:47:32.089 --> 00:47:36.255
Yeah. And I guess, you know, all of this is all, you know, well and said, but,
728
00:47:37.535 --> 00:47:44.595
the the most important thing if you're looking at sort of hiding the amount of Bitcoin you're travelling with is sort of keep it keep it simple. So,
729
00:47:45.500 --> 00:47:47.440
yeah, you might you might have your,
730
00:47:47.980 --> 00:47:48.480
your
731
00:47:48.860 --> 00:47:52.480
seed words written down. I mean, if you're if you're just trying to cross a border,
732
00:47:53.365 --> 00:47:54.984
your seed words might be good,
733
00:47:55.285 --> 00:48:06.430
plus a passphrase which is in your head. And, Matt, you mentioned about, you know, having a a passphrase that, is longer than one word. But, you know, if you're just trying to get over that border, then maybe a simple passphrase,
734
00:48:07.690 --> 00:48:10.270
might might be best just for that for that transition.
735
00:48:10.650 --> 00:48:15.655
And then you can forget it. Right? Yeah. And then you can sweep the funds when you're on the other side.
736
00:48:16.915 --> 00:48:21.975
And then, you know, the question is sort of how would you how would you travel with your 12 words
737
00:48:22.580 --> 00:48:23.800
or your 24 words,
738
00:48:24.820 --> 00:48:28.200
across the border. And then I think you're into the realms of either,
739
00:48:29.295 --> 00:48:30.835
you know, moving it digitally.
740
00:48:31.295 --> 00:48:33.474
So saving that on your phone maybe
741
00:48:33.934 --> 00:48:35.395
if if that's appropriate,
742
00:48:36.734 --> 00:48:39.630
or, you know, writing it down in some sort
743
00:48:40.730 --> 00:48:42.829
of secret or sort of steganographic
744
00:48:43.210 --> 00:48:43.369
way.
745
00:48:45.450 --> 00:48:50.595
I was talking to someone last week, and, you know, whether that be sort of highlighting words in a book,
746
00:48:51.055 --> 00:48:51.555
perhaps,
747
00:48:53.030 --> 00:48:53.530
or,
748
00:48:54.150 --> 00:48:58.970
you know, I think back in the day, it was writing a a Bitcoin poem, wasn't it? The,
749
00:49:00.869 --> 00:49:01.369
since
750
00:49:03.335 --> 00:49:04.155
sort of
751
00:49:04.535 --> 00:49:07.035
I'd have a lot of difficulty writing a poem.
752
00:49:07.895 --> 00:49:12.349
I can randomly generate a seed words in it. Well, I I think there's a I think there's,
753
00:49:12.750 --> 00:49:13.650
there's like
754
00:49:14.270 --> 00:49:19.810
a a sort of script you can follow, which which, makes it in invert and commas easier.
755
00:49:20.214 --> 00:49:28.075
I wouldn't recommend doing this. I think that someone wrote a a script to sort of sweep the Internet of poems and and try to crack people's,
756
00:49:28.535 --> 00:49:29.275
seed phrases.
757
00:49:29.800 --> 00:49:33.420
But, you know, if if it's just a matter of crossing a single border,
758
00:49:33.960 --> 00:49:34.840
you can get sort of,
759
00:49:35.800 --> 00:49:37.100
you know, quite experimental
760
00:49:37.400 --> 00:49:37.900
or,
761
00:49:38.545 --> 00:49:42.325
you know, come up with some quite interesting ways of of moving it.
762
00:49:42.785 --> 00:49:44.065
But, ultimately, you know,
763
00:49:44.865 --> 00:49:45.925
it needs to be
764
00:49:46.350 --> 00:49:48.210
fairly simple for you to recover.
765
00:49:48.590 --> 00:49:49.890
You know, you don't want to,
766
00:49:50.590 --> 00:49:54.705
sort of split your seed up into so many, you know, so many pieces,
767
00:49:55.325 --> 00:49:58.145
and then perhaps, you know, pop or possibly lose 1.
768
00:49:59.085 --> 00:50:04.130
So it's, you know, keep it simple, really. Like as simple as you can get away with?
769
00:50:04.510 --> 00:50:07.490
Simple as you can get away with, but, you know, just in case,
770
00:50:08.694 --> 00:50:14.454
you know, any anyone questions it, you know, perhaps encrypt it with a, not encrypt it, but,
771
00:50:15.174 --> 00:50:17.994
add an extra extra word, which is a a passphrase.
772
00:50:18.680 --> 00:50:20.380
What are your thoughts here, Rod and Will?
773
00:50:22.040 --> 00:50:23.020
Where to begin?
774
00:50:24.040 --> 00:50:25.640
I I guess I should,
775
00:50:26.040 --> 00:50:27.580
first share that I'm Venezuelan.
776
00:50:28.635 --> 00:50:30.575
I was born and raised in Venezuela.
777
00:50:31.915 --> 00:50:34.175
So I actually had once
778
00:50:34.715 --> 00:50:36.175
locally just once.
779
00:50:36.590 --> 00:50:38.030
So the way I did it,
780
00:50:38.830 --> 00:50:40.530
I did it in 2 rounds.
781
00:50:42.270 --> 00:50:46.210
First, I just crossed the border without any Bitcoin, any.
782
00:50:46.815 --> 00:50:48.275
Didn't have anything on me,
783
00:50:49.214 --> 00:50:51.875
just to put the luggage on the other side,
784
00:50:53.214 --> 00:50:55.795
leave it in some storage, and come back.
785
00:50:56.780 --> 00:50:58.960
When I came back, I had an undisclosed
786
00:50:59.260 --> 00:51:02.000
amount of cash. I was leaving the country.
787
00:51:02.540 --> 00:51:07.894
It was on the brink of getting even worse than it had been for the past, I don't know, 15 years.
788
00:51:08.914 --> 00:51:10.855
I knew it was time just to leave,
789
00:51:12.090 --> 00:51:13.390
just to call it quits.
790
00:51:13.770 --> 00:51:17.230
So what I did was I coupled with a friend.
791
00:51:18.010 --> 00:51:20.910
This gets kind of illegal, but it's what I did.
792
00:51:21.605 --> 00:51:23.065
I just crossed the border
793
00:51:23.605 --> 00:51:25.065
through some river.
794
00:51:25.845 --> 00:51:27.465
I didn't go through the checks.
795
00:51:28.165 --> 00:51:29.785
You can actually do that
796
00:51:30.290 --> 00:51:31.190
between the border,
797
00:51:32.050 --> 00:51:33.589
in Venezuela and Colombia.
798
00:51:34.450 --> 00:51:40.195
You can pay some Fox, whatever. They just look away and you cross the border through a river.
799
00:51:40.995 --> 00:51:44.855
We crossed the river with an undisclosed amount of cash.
800
00:51:45.155 --> 00:51:48.935
I didn't even cross with the Bitcoin on me. I hadn't bought any Bitcoin.
801
00:51:49.710 --> 00:51:53.810
And once I got to Colombia, I I bought the Bitcoin in cash,
802
00:51:54.190 --> 00:51:55.330
KYC free,
803
00:51:55.870 --> 00:51:59.170
and then couple days after I just took off, and
804
00:52:00.575 --> 00:52:02.115
then, there I was.
805
00:52:03.375 --> 00:52:10.619
So I didn't go through the hassle of figuring out how to cross the border with any seat or stashing it in some luggage.
806
00:52:11.960 --> 00:52:12.700
Not necessarily
807
00:52:13.000 --> 00:52:15.180
because I didn't want to, but because
808
00:52:16.655 --> 00:52:17.635
for for
809
00:52:18.175 --> 00:52:19.955
handling cash internationally,
810
00:52:20.495 --> 00:52:21.155
you cannot,
811
00:52:21.535 --> 00:52:22.275
I don't know,
812
00:52:22.815 --> 00:52:30.800
cross borders with I'm going to throw, random numbers with, I don't know, 50 k because, of course, they're going to,
813
00:52:31.180 --> 00:52:34.705
ask you questions and potentially, just seize the cash.
814
00:52:35.325 --> 00:52:38.625
I just had to proceed in some Latino way.
815
00:52:39.405 --> 00:52:41.085
Was it was it fun?
816
00:52:41.405 --> 00:52:47.300
It was some fun. It was risky. It got dicey. I I didn't know what was going to happen because
817
00:52:47.680 --> 00:52:48.420
they're actually,
818
00:52:50.160 --> 00:52:50.900
are Garrigas
819
00:52:51.435 --> 00:52:52.575
besides the authorities.
820
00:52:53.115 --> 00:52:57.695
So I was not against a single head. I was against multiple heads.
821
00:52:57.995 --> 00:53:01.910
But still, I I had to risk it because if I don't pull the cash now,
822
00:53:02.369 --> 00:53:07.349
when am I going to return to pull however much I had? It was, like,
823
00:53:07.744 --> 00:53:10.724
either you do it or you don't. You abandon the cash.
824
00:53:12.384 --> 00:53:18.740
I would say that it's it's tough when you're put in a position of either you risk your life or
825
00:53:19.040 --> 00:53:23.940
you're you're dumb or you you will start from 0 in another country.
826
00:53:25.305 --> 00:53:28.765
You you could potentially not even speak their language.
827
00:53:29.224 --> 00:53:30.025
So for me, it was
828
00:53:31.510 --> 00:53:32.329
I don't know.
829
00:53:32.710 --> 00:53:39.450
It was not fun. It was not engaging. It's not something that I recommend to anybody, not even my worst enemy.
830
00:53:40.635 --> 00:53:42.415
Did I do it? Yes. I did it.
831
00:53:43.115 --> 00:53:48.815
Am I proud of what I do what I did? Yes. Of course. Because I was protecting some capital that was mine.
832
00:53:50.930 --> 00:53:52.470
But but that's a tangent,
833
00:53:53.570 --> 00:53:57.190
kind of of returning to topic of of stashing seeds.
834
00:53:57.810 --> 00:53:58.870
I I
835
00:53:59.234 --> 00:54:08.775
definitely do not advise or wouldn't advise or wouldn't do it myself to keep my passphrase or my seeds in my brain. I think that's an awful advice,
836
00:54:10.820 --> 00:54:18.360
essentially, because I wouldn't be able to recall the first three words, let alone 12 or 24. That's that's just a stupid,
837
00:54:19.705 --> 00:54:26.285
pardon my French. I would just write them the words down on some book and some random pages,
838
00:54:26.770 --> 00:54:30.950
not even mark them, and then go through them as soon as I cross border.
839
00:54:32.609 --> 00:54:34.630
In order for you to to actually
840
00:54:36.445 --> 00:54:38.065
keep the seats in order,
841
00:54:38.525 --> 00:54:42.525
you should keep it as simple as possible. You, you know, you you
842
00:54:43.350 --> 00:54:46.730
that's the problem when you find yourself in these tight positions.
843
00:54:47.350 --> 00:54:48.490
You start overthinking,
844
00:54:49.030 --> 00:54:54.725
and you start saying, no, but the copy is going to find it. No. But the copy is going to start asking me questions.
845
00:54:55.585 --> 00:54:56.085
And
846
00:54:56.705 --> 00:54:59.605
I don't know if if it sounds funny or not, but
847
00:55:01.510 --> 00:55:07.130
in Latin America, things are done that simply. There is there is no point in overthinking
848
00:55:07.670 --> 00:55:09.850
or making your setup so complicated
849
00:55:10.474 --> 00:55:12.974
that you're so anonymous and you're so,
850
00:55:13.275 --> 00:55:17.935
I don't know, so big into LARPing and stuff. You you do you do things,
851
00:55:19.019 --> 00:55:23.760
fringe things on plain sight, and that's the best way to hide it.
852
00:55:29.645 --> 00:55:31.025
I think you nailed it.
853
00:55:32.045 --> 00:55:35.645
You do what you gotta do. You know? Not everyone is
854
00:55:36.130 --> 00:55:36.869
has to
855
00:55:37.250 --> 00:55:39.349
be super sleuth spy man.
856
00:55:40.049 --> 00:55:42.869
Not everyone is up against that kind of adversary.
857
00:55:43.650 --> 00:55:45.190
You know? In in his case,
858
00:55:45.494 --> 00:55:46.555
you know, he was
859
00:55:47.335 --> 00:55:48.795
you you know, you're dealing with
860
00:55:49.335 --> 00:55:50.395
guerrillas, basically,
861
00:55:51.095 --> 00:55:53.835
slash maybe loosely affiliated with some military
862
00:55:54.700 --> 00:55:58.560
at border crossings. You know, they don't care. They'll take a bribe and,
863
00:55:58.860 --> 00:56:04.655
you know, they don't wanna try to hack into your phone or that kind of thing. So, really, you need to,
864
00:56:05.275 --> 00:56:06.175
know your enemy
865
00:56:06.555 --> 00:56:07.935
and know his sword.
866
00:56:08.715 --> 00:56:12.655
And, you know, how are they gonna attack? What methods are they gonna try to use?
867
00:56:13.420 --> 00:56:13.920
And,
868
00:56:14.300 --> 00:56:17.280
you know, Ron and Will has a good point. A lot of people do
869
00:56:17.660 --> 00:56:21.120
really overthink this stuff, and they end up screwing themselves.
870
00:56:21.705 --> 00:56:24.765
A perfect example is, like, when you get too complex with multisig,
871
00:56:25.385 --> 00:56:32.510
and you didn't need to do that, and you end up, you know, losing your coins or having a tough time when you could have just used a pass phrase.
872
00:56:33.530 --> 00:56:36.430
So it's just about, you know, what is your threat model,
873
00:56:36.810 --> 00:56:38.030
and what is your
874
00:56:38.375 --> 00:56:42.715
actual concern of, you know, who is your adversary and what skills do they have.
875
00:56:43.495 --> 00:56:45.995
Rodan, thank you for sharing that story.
876
00:56:46.910 --> 00:56:47.810
Was there a reason
877
00:56:48.670 --> 00:56:49.650
why you didn't,
878
00:56:50.510 --> 00:56:52.930
convert the cash to Bitcoin first in Venezuela?
879
00:56:55.230 --> 00:56:56.130
Sure. I,
880
00:56:57.135 --> 00:57:01.395
at the time, I didn't actually know about Beacon too much. I
881
00:57:01.855 --> 00:57:03.875
hadn't heard too much. I hadn't died.
882
00:57:04.175 --> 00:57:06.275
I did not know anybody that
883
00:57:06.720 --> 00:57:08.180
actually was into Bitcoin.
884
00:57:10.320 --> 00:57:11.620
Of course, I I
885
00:57:12.000 --> 00:57:20.575
didn't want to spread the word around of I have some cash that I want to convert because I'm leaving the country. I was trying to keep everything hushy-hushy.
886
00:57:21.515 --> 00:57:26.099
And one thing led to another. I I just became acquainted with some guy
887
00:57:26.720 --> 00:57:28.180
across the border that
888
00:57:29.200 --> 00:57:31.300
dealt Bitcoin o to c Bitcoin.
889
00:57:31.615 --> 00:57:37.315
I was like, hey. Can I come? I have x amount, whatever. What rate could you give me?
890
00:57:38.015 --> 00:57:40.434
Do I see you, I don't know, x date?
891
00:57:40.750 --> 00:57:43.890
And he was like, sure. Of course. He had a premium,
892
00:57:44.430 --> 00:57:45.170
but, again,
893
00:57:45.630 --> 00:57:47.330
that's a big claim that nobody
894
00:57:47.790 --> 00:57:52.545
but that guy and now I don't know. That sense of people know that I could have,
895
00:57:53.725 --> 00:57:54.465
but still,
896
00:57:55.245 --> 00:57:58.305
it's it's Bitcoin that it had does not have any documentation
897
00:57:58.765 --> 00:58:00.369
tied to it. So
898
00:58:00.990 --> 00:58:05.970
if I ever had any k y c Bitcoin, I I label it as a shitcoin,
899
00:58:06.430 --> 00:58:10.115
and, actually, the the k y c Bitcoin is the one that I spend
900
00:58:10.494 --> 00:58:12.994
regularly. I want to get rid of that crap,
901
00:58:14.735 --> 00:58:15.875
as soon as possible.
902
00:58:16.895 --> 00:58:23.690
So, I mean, we can talk about KYC in a second. Sure. Sure. Sure. It it's just a lot of tangents. The this topic is
903
00:58:25.244 --> 00:58:26.945
I I feel that. So
904
00:58:27.405 --> 00:58:27.964
trust me.
905
00:58:28.685 --> 00:58:30.945
I mean, I don't even know. At this point,
906
00:58:32.260 --> 00:58:36.360
probably over 200 hours of dispatch, and probably the majority of it is
907
00:58:36.820 --> 00:58:41.720
significantly more than yeah. It's, like, 200 hours of dispatch and most of it's tangents.
908
00:58:42.045 --> 00:58:43.265
Try and keep it organized.
909
00:58:44.685 --> 00:58:51.185
So, I mean, from my understanding there is is you just basically weren't really familiar with Bitcoin at the time of the crossing.
910
00:58:52.510 --> 00:58:53.490
No. No.
911
00:58:54.190 --> 00:58:55.570
Do you do you see
912
00:58:57.310 --> 00:59:00.609
I mean, I I I assume I don't wanna put words in your mouth.
913
00:59:01.005 --> 00:59:07.585
If if you were familiar with Bitcoin, you're a 100% cross with Bitcoin rather than cash. Right? It's just easier to cross with.
914
00:59:08.480 --> 00:59:16.020
Absolutely. Yes. But, also, the the other, I don't know, nuance, the other problem here that that you need to factor in
915
00:59:16.505 --> 00:59:18.525
is that that was precisely
916
00:59:18.825 --> 00:59:19.964
the timing when
917
00:59:20.265 --> 00:59:25.085
the government was clamping down on miners. The government was prosecuting Venezuelans
918
00:59:25.430 --> 00:59:26.010
for Bitcoin.
919
00:59:26.550 --> 00:59:27.530
So I was
920
00:59:28.310 --> 00:59:33.850
again, it was so hectic for me those couple of weeks or whatever however long it was
921
00:59:34.195 --> 00:59:42.775
because I I didn't know what I could do. I could, I don't know, find somebody in Venezuela, but they happen to be some informant, some undercover agent.
922
00:59:43.160 --> 00:59:51.660
And instead of me migrating, I I end up without my cash and it caved for however long. So I was like, fuck that.
923
00:59:53.215 --> 01:00:04.640
Yeah. So, I mean, in this in that case, it could actually if if you were trying to convert a large amount of cash to Bitcoin in that situation, it could actually put you at more risk than just the crossing dealing with crossing with cash.
924
01:00:06.140 --> 01:00:11.359
I think that that brings up a a really good point, I think, that has become apparent for a lot of people,
925
01:00:12.605 --> 01:00:15.905
over the last few weeks with with everything that's been going on
926
01:00:16.285 --> 01:00:23.510
is that, you know, a lot of these things, you're in a lot better position if you're prepared ahead of time before the crises hit. Once the crises hit,
927
01:00:25.010 --> 01:00:27.270
everything becomes much more difficult. Right?
928
01:00:29.045 --> 01:00:30.425
Yes. Yeah. A 100%.
929
01:00:30.725 --> 01:00:36.345
I I I'm just glad that I made it out. I'm glad that I made it out without a bruise.
930
01:00:36.645 --> 01:00:40.690
I'm glad that I made it out with without taking any losses,
931
01:00:41.070 --> 01:00:43.810
be it emotional or or capital wise.
932
01:00:44.270 --> 01:00:45.250
But a 100%,
933
01:00:45.710 --> 01:00:48.290
once you're you're in that position of
934
01:00:48.755 --> 01:00:52.055
either make it or just you're fucked up, then
935
01:00:52.835 --> 01:00:58.950
you you don't think you you don't tend to think straight, and you can take very bad decisions,
936
01:00:59.330 --> 01:01:01.270
and many things can head south.
937
01:01:02.450 --> 01:01:05.589
So if anything, I mean, the lesson is just
938
01:01:06.645 --> 01:01:09.225
wiggle it. What what else can you do?
939
01:01:10.165 --> 01:01:11.125
Yeah. It
940
01:01:11.925 --> 01:01:13.545
it's it's it's tough.
941
01:01:14.180 --> 01:01:15.960
It's really tough. And
942
01:01:16.660 --> 01:01:17.160
when
943
01:01:17.780 --> 01:01:20.580
when things like Ukraine or Russia happen,
944
01:01:22.340 --> 01:01:23.080
I don't know.
945
01:01:24.165 --> 01:01:35.049
There is a lot of bank runs and then there is huge lines of people trying to withdraw cash because they no longer trust the government or they're they're panicking about the situation,
946
01:01:35.829 --> 01:01:36.329
then
947
01:01:37.349 --> 01:01:38.329
that's that's
948
01:01:38.710 --> 01:01:40.410
a whole other issue.
949
01:01:41.145 --> 01:01:43.405
Because if you don't have
950
01:01:43.865 --> 01:01:44.365
a
951
01:01:44.825 --> 01:01:45.325
a
952
01:01:45.785 --> 01:01:55.789
a good amount of of cash or money converted to Bitcoin, then your hands are tight. You need to either suck it up and somehow get your cash or just flee cashless
953
01:01:56.170 --> 01:02:03.704
and start from 0. I think one of the biggest concerns of mine back then was exactly that if I don't make it, then
954
01:02:04.244 --> 01:02:05.385
I'm going to be fucked.
955
01:02:11.080 --> 01:02:14.140
That's some heavy shit. I appreciate you sharing it, my dude.
956
01:02:17.895 --> 01:02:24.875
On the on the I'm Yeah. Go on. Yeah. I I I won't waste more time. You're not wasting any time. Continue.
957
01:02:27.850 --> 01:02:28.350
Besides
958
01:02:28.810 --> 01:02:30.430
that, I'm just more
959
01:02:31.130 --> 01:02:34.110
than than talking about Bitcoin crossing borders.
960
01:02:35.205 --> 01:02:36.265
I have anecdotes
961
01:02:36.645 --> 01:02:38.345
multiple anecdotes because
962
01:02:38.805 --> 01:02:41.785
for our reasons personal reasons, I traveled
963
01:02:42.540 --> 01:02:43.040
overseas
964
01:02:43.580 --> 01:02:46.080
a couple times or more than a couple times.
965
01:02:46.619 --> 01:02:50.480
But more than once, I I will be crossing that same border,
966
01:02:51.785 --> 01:02:52.925
and the Colombian
967
01:02:53.305 --> 01:02:58.765
and the Venezuelan government hate each other. So they, at some point, closed it,
968
01:03:00.200 --> 01:03:02.700
and they had declared some marsh border.
969
01:03:03.640 --> 01:03:04.700
So I was crossing
970
01:03:05.000 --> 01:03:10.685
the border legally. I I does the same, crosses the border by foot, walk in. It's fine.
971
01:03:12.425 --> 01:03:15.085
But I remember one day, I'll pull over.
972
01:03:15.465 --> 01:03:17.805
You know, they send you to a small room.
973
01:03:18.950 --> 01:03:20.170
There is the soldier
974
01:03:21.190 --> 01:03:22.410
or whatever it was.
975
01:03:23.270 --> 01:03:23.770
Just
976
01:03:24.230 --> 01:03:30.065
and, of course, they can stomp on your on your rights, on your civil rights, however much they want.
977
01:03:30.765 --> 01:03:33.904
They he went all the way through my luggage,
978
01:03:35.630 --> 01:03:39.410
and then he proceeded to ask for my wallet. They the wallet wide open,
979
01:03:40.670 --> 01:03:42.610
went through the cards, the IDs,
980
01:03:43.934 --> 01:03:49.315
the cash that I had in there. And then he goes, you have more than, I don't know, â¬50,
981
01:03:49.694 --> 01:03:50.194
$50.
982
01:03:51.390 --> 01:03:54.690
This is not good because Marshall Lab blah blah blah blah.
983
01:03:54.990 --> 01:03:58.049
And then he took however much cash I I had
984
01:03:58.414 --> 01:04:00.674
and just let me go. And he say,
985
01:04:00.974 --> 01:04:09.990
I'm letting you go just because you have the cash, and I hope you understand that this is not good. This is forbidden. You could be sent to to jail.
986
01:04:10.370 --> 01:04:13.110
So that's the level of of corruption
987
01:04:13.410 --> 01:04:14.230
of of
988
01:04:14.845 --> 01:04:22.625
we don't care about your rights, just give us our money that I was, dealing with. And that had happened before the the the
989
01:04:23.100 --> 01:04:26.320
forced the forced migration happened, not after.
990
01:04:26.620 --> 01:04:27.760
So you can figure
991
01:04:28.620 --> 01:04:30.240
that I had already some,
992
01:04:32.325 --> 01:04:33.145
I don't know,
993
01:04:34.405 --> 01:04:35.225
awful extreme.
994
01:04:35.845 --> 01:04:39.305
Of course, I was alpha that. I was born and raised in the sheathole.
995
01:04:39.910 --> 01:04:44.250
I did not know any other government different than the one that I had known.
996
01:04:44.790 --> 01:04:45.290
So
997
01:04:45.910 --> 01:04:50.635
I knew exactly what I was up against, but for me was an
998
01:04:51.174 --> 01:04:53.994
experience that I wasn't initially expecting,
999
01:04:55.974 --> 01:04:59.740
because you do get accustomed to just the stash and things, to use,
1000
01:05:00.600 --> 01:05:02.860
hide things in plain in plain sight.
1001
01:05:03.160 --> 01:05:05.740
You just get accustomed to having a criminal
1002
01:05:06.040 --> 01:05:06.540
state,
1003
01:05:07.595 --> 01:05:08.974
and you mold yourself,
1004
01:05:10.795 --> 01:05:13.810
according to whatever you're dealing with, that day.
1005
01:05:19.490 --> 01:05:22.630
And after hearing that, I don't know how anyone can question
1006
01:05:23.255 --> 01:05:23.914
the importance
1007
01:05:25.414 --> 01:05:28.474
of Bitcoin being digital cash and self custody
1008
01:05:29.255 --> 01:05:30.990
and all and all that stuff.
1009
01:05:31.390 --> 01:05:33.890
You know, it's not just a number go up asset.
1010
01:05:34.190 --> 01:05:34.690
It's
1011
01:05:35.150 --> 01:05:40.610
it's changing lives for people out there and helping them in situations that
1012
01:05:40.945 --> 01:05:43.045
there used to not really be a solution for.
1013
01:05:46.065 --> 01:05:49.185
So you wanna transition into that conversation? I mean, I
1014
01:05:55.319 --> 01:05:55.819
Bitcoin,
1015
01:05:59.414 --> 01:06:02.635
There if there's non Bitcoin data you wanna travel with,
1016
01:06:03.255 --> 01:06:05.595
I personally really like the idea of,
1017
01:06:07.039 --> 01:06:08.980
encrypted micro SD cards.
1018
01:06:09.359 --> 01:06:10.579
They're fucking tiny.
1019
01:06:11.279 --> 01:06:16.099
They can hold a lot of fucking data. You can have multiple of them. If you're running Linux,
1020
01:06:16.744 --> 01:06:21.805
it has the built in locks encryption so you can encrypt any drive, including micro SD cards.
1021
01:06:22.585 --> 01:06:25.644
Put them in your sock. You can put them anywhere you wanna put them.
1022
01:06:27.720 --> 01:06:30.860
I feel like that could be a very useful tool to people.
1023
01:06:32.280 --> 01:06:34.380
And once again, it's, you know, keep it simple.
1024
01:06:34.744 --> 01:06:37.565
So it's an encrypted drive. You do it through
1025
01:06:37.945 --> 01:06:38.845
the built in
1026
01:06:39.464 --> 01:06:39.964
Linux
1027
01:06:40.345 --> 01:06:42.045
encryption, the locks encryption,
1028
01:06:42.940 --> 01:06:43.339
and,
1029
01:06:43.740 --> 01:06:46.079
you keep redundant copies, and you're good.
1030
01:06:47.740 --> 01:06:49.200
Something I wanna ask an idea.
1031
01:06:49.855 --> 01:06:53.135
Go ahead. What's up, brother? I was gonna say something I wanna ask,
1032
01:06:53.695 --> 01:06:55.635
Ron, is that, you know,
1033
01:06:56.255 --> 01:06:57.635
knowing what you know now
1034
01:06:58.015 --> 01:06:58.515
and,
1035
01:06:59.599 --> 01:07:04.819
having the sort of friends and, I guess, the sort of Bitcoiners, and I know you're in some Monero too,
1036
01:07:06.535 --> 01:07:15.990
Would you would you have sort of done the crossing differently, perhaps giving an, an element of trust into a sort of trusted friend that was on the other side, though, so to speak, or,
1037
01:07:16.869 --> 01:07:20.570
you know, trusted somebody with with your wealth when when crossing?
1038
01:07:21.270 --> 01:07:24.675
Or would would you still have, sort of, you
1039
01:07:25.775 --> 01:07:28.915
know, kept it in your own hands in terms of,
1040
01:07:29.215 --> 01:07:30.835
moving your wealth across border?
1041
01:07:31.190 --> 01:07:31.690
It's
1042
01:07:32.950 --> 01:07:34.089
a tough question.
1043
01:07:34.869 --> 01:07:38.569
I don't know how to answer that, but I personally,
1044
01:07:40.335 --> 01:07:42.675
regardless of how much I I know
1045
01:07:43.375 --> 01:07:45.875
now or what happened back then,
1046
01:07:46.655 --> 01:07:51.970
I would dare say that I wouldn't entrust my capital or my cash to anybody.
1047
01:07:52.910 --> 01:07:56.289
I wouldn't I wouldn't ask for advice, from anybody
1048
01:07:56.750 --> 01:07:58.450
because thanks to that
1049
01:07:59.005 --> 01:08:01.745
type of society or that type of state,
1050
01:08:02.525 --> 01:08:03.025
you
1051
01:08:03.645 --> 01:08:06.945
grow ever so tired of entrusting anybody.
1052
01:08:07.440 --> 01:08:09.619
Everybody is trying to look after themselves.
1053
01:08:10.240 --> 01:08:10.980
If they
1054
01:08:11.280 --> 01:08:14.420
get a chance to fuck you over, trust me. They will.
1055
01:08:14.994 --> 01:08:17.655
So that that's precisely I was
1056
01:08:18.195 --> 01:08:18.695
stingy.
1057
01:08:18.995 --> 01:08:21.495
I was very cautious with disclosing,
1058
01:08:21.940 --> 01:08:23.380
hey. I'm migrating. I
1059
01:08:23.940 --> 01:08:25.960
instead of doing that, I I just
1060
01:08:26.420 --> 01:08:27.560
did my own thing.
1061
01:08:29.745 --> 01:08:31.045
One thing that I would,
1062
01:08:31.825 --> 01:08:36.005
emphasize is just if you're fleeing a country, just do it
1063
01:08:36.440 --> 01:08:37.980
k y c free. So
1064
01:08:38.520 --> 01:08:45.659
neither of the states nor near the state you're in, neither the country you're in, nor the state you're fleeing to
1065
01:08:46.175 --> 01:08:48.994
knows that you actually have possession of those coins.
1066
01:08:49.695 --> 01:08:56.870
And better yet, if you can use, I don't know, a breach country like I did, because I'm not actually in Colombia and elsewhere,
1067
01:08:57.489 --> 01:08:59.190
then even better because you're
1068
01:08:59.650 --> 01:09:00.150
obfuscating
1069
01:09:00.530 --> 01:09:01.190
and obfuscating
1070
01:09:02.085 --> 01:09:02.585
even
1071
01:09:03.045 --> 01:09:05.225
further whatever it is that you're
1072
01:09:05.765 --> 01:09:08.985
kind of keeping stashed to yourself. And
1073
01:09:09.390 --> 01:09:12.370
I don't even know if I'm answering your question. It's just
1074
01:09:12.750 --> 01:09:14.210
it's just a tough position.
1075
01:09:15.070 --> 01:09:16.130
It's just a tough
1076
01:09:16.430 --> 01:09:17.730
thing to deal with.
1077
01:09:18.934 --> 01:09:21.034
Of course, across time, I
1078
01:09:21.815 --> 01:09:26.074
I would say that enduring that or embracing that type of thing
1079
01:09:26.620 --> 01:09:28.480
has taught me a couple things,
1080
01:09:29.900 --> 01:09:30.400
and
1081
01:09:31.980 --> 01:09:34.320
it's it's just hard. I
1082
01:09:34.945 --> 01:09:39.684
I don't know I don't know what what type of advice I would give other than
1083
01:09:40.625 --> 01:09:41.844
embrace for impact,
1084
01:09:42.260 --> 01:09:44.520
and things can happen very quickly.
1085
01:09:45.380 --> 01:09:50.520
Today, we see with Ukraine and and Russia that just a flip of of a pen or just
1086
01:09:51.165 --> 01:09:52.305
talk like Putin
1087
01:09:53.165 --> 01:09:55.585
flipped the the the pancake entirely.
1088
01:09:57.790 --> 01:10:05.570
But many other scenarios can happen as well, so you just gotta be prepared. And those times in which you you say,
1089
01:10:05.925 --> 01:10:16.090
no. It doesn't happen in the fierce world. Fuck, yeah. It happens in the fierce world. It can happen anywhere. It happened in Canada, and and it happened be within few hours. It didn't happen,
1090
01:10:16.390 --> 01:10:18.730
I don't know, in 3, 4 weeks.
1091
01:10:20.630 --> 01:10:22.570
That that is to be prime minister
1092
01:10:22.949 --> 01:10:24.570
just declared some similar,
1093
01:10:25.365 --> 01:10:28.505
national state to that of of World War.
1094
01:10:29.045 --> 01:10:30.985
So the heck is wrong with that guy?
1095
01:10:34.730 --> 01:10:39.950
Yeah. No. You you definitely answered my question. I think, what I was sort of angling at is that
1096
01:10:40.410 --> 01:10:44.625
something that we all often know, you know, champion about is sort of being self sovereign
1097
01:10:45.244 --> 01:10:46.864
and, the actions you took,
1098
01:10:48.205 --> 01:10:52.920
albeit, you know, somewhat difficult to hear and not sure I could see myself in that situation.
1099
01:10:54.340 --> 01:10:57.375
You know, it comes down to, you know, being self sovereign with
1100
01:10:58.335 --> 01:11:03.235
your Bitcoin and your wealth and, you know, your data to what we touched on before. And,
1101
01:11:03.855 --> 01:11:07.429
you know, it's it's difficult when when it comes to it. But,
1102
01:11:08.130 --> 01:11:12.630
you know, being able to trust yourself more than anybody else is is maybe what's important.
1103
01:11:14.915 --> 01:11:15.415
Yeah.
1104
01:11:16.755 --> 01:11:18.075
I wish I wish,
1105
01:11:18.515 --> 01:11:21.175
the the situation in Venezuela have been better
1106
01:11:21.640 --> 01:11:25.100
or that I have better context. I don't know. Some miners,
1107
01:11:25.800 --> 01:11:29.500
some OTC traders, and it would have been way
1108
01:11:30.315 --> 01:11:32.175
easier for me. I wouldn't have,
1109
01:11:32.715 --> 01:11:34.014
taken a couple trips.
1110
01:11:34.875 --> 01:11:37.295
I wouldn't have done the revert thing.
1111
01:11:38.290 --> 01:11:41.110
I would just have done what I preached before.
1112
01:11:41.570 --> 01:11:45.030
Just write down, 12 words or 24 words
1113
01:11:45.715 --> 01:11:53.335
in different pages in a book and just stash it somewhere in the luggage. And don't even bother about having a Bitcoin wallet in my phone.
1114
01:11:53.830 --> 01:11:59.770
With the seed, I know that I can restore it anywhere else once I cross the border or get to my destination.
1115
01:12:00.475 --> 01:12:02.815
There is not even a need for me
1116
01:12:03.115 --> 01:12:07.935
to have anything on the phone that says I'm a Bitcoiner or I'm into Monero.
1117
01:12:08.580 --> 01:12:11.000
As long as I have the seed, that's fine.
1118
01:12:11.460 --> 01:12:13.640
And the way that you can, I don't know,
1119
01:12:14.580 --> 01:12:19.855
provide yourself with some ease of mind is once you have written it down somewhere,
1120
01:12:20.395 --> 01:12:22.015
however you want to do it,
1121
01:12:22.555 --> 01:12:29.160
you take the with the words, you take a Virgin wallet, and you try to restore deceit so that you know that
1122
01:12:29.699 --> 01:12:31.160
whenever you cross the border,
1123
01:12:32.020 --> 01:12:34.040
you're going to have your money saved?
1124
01:12:35.155 --> 01:12:37.175
I wouldn't even bother about the passphrase.
1125
01:12:38.275 --> 01:12:39.094
It's just
1126
01:12:39.715 --> 01:12:42.455
the bottom line is just keep things simple,
1127
01:12:43.600 --> 01:12:46.100
attest that they work before you do it,
1128
01:12:46.560 --> 01:12:48.340
and just roll with it.
1129
01:12:48.880 --> 01:12:51.360
That it's as simple as that. We
1130
01:12:51.925 --> 01:12:54.505
when when you find yourself in those tough spots,
1131
01:12:55.125 --> 01:12:58.105
you you're just killing yourself with your mind. And
1132
01:12:58.405 --> 01:13:01.625
instead of making changes, you're you're making things worse.
1133
01:13:04.690 --> 01:13:05.909
And also to
1134
01:13:06.290 --> 01:13:07.350
continue on,
1135
01:13:08.370 --> 01:13:09.989
about recovering seed phrases,
1136
01:13:11.575 --> 01:13:15.675
I've just put a link in the chat. The Calix phone as well has
1137
01:13:16.455 --> 01:13:18.475
a seed vault encrypted backup.
1138
01:13:19.190 --> 01:13:21.770
So, you know, if you need to recover your Bitcoin
1139
01:13:22.390 --> 01:13:24.170
or recover your Calix phone,
1140
01:13:24.630 --> 01:13:26.410
the functionality is very similar.
1141
01:13:27.215 --> 01:13:31.315
I believe both of them are 12 words, at least if you're using Samura wallet.
1142
01:13:33.054 --> 01:13:51.125
So, really, as long as you come up with the scheme for this, then you can I think you can cross these borders effectively and recover whatever data you want, you know, bit whether it's your Bitcoin or your phone or whatever? The main difference with the Galaxy Vault is you also need the the digital encrypted file.
1143
01:13:52.145 --> 01:13:59.370
Okay. That's good to know. So you're on, like, a micro SD or you put it in the cloud or something because it is encrypted with the with the seed.
1144
01:13:59.670 --> 01:14:02.570
Right. That's a good idea to you could use a cloud
1145
01:14:03.805 --> 01:14:06.145
or even using, stuff like PGP
1146
01:14:06.765 --> 01:14:12.865
and then have that, you know, encrypted in plain sight and then have, you know, your key hidden off somewhere,
1147
01:14:14.390 --> 01:14:19.850
You know, a mix of all of these tactics, however you wanna combine them, and a little bit of education.
1148
01:14:20.469 --> 01:14:21.290
And I think
1149
01:14:21.945 --> 01:14:24.045
people could fool most border crossings
1150
01:14:24.425 --> 01:14:25.805
and have a really effective
1151
01:14:26.345 --> 01:14:29.245
kinda mobile setup if they need to be on the go.
1152
01:14:31.480 --> 01:14:35.179
So, Rod and yeah. Go on. Go ahead. No. No. No. Please. You.
1153
01:14:36.840 --> 01:14:45.535
So, Rod and I know I know you listen to the show. I know you have very strong opinions. I met you in Miami. I gave you a I gave you a dispatch hat for free
1154
01:14:46.099 --> 01:14:46.599
after,
1155
01:14:47.539 --> 01:14:49.000
you asked to pay me in Monero.
1156
01:14:52.340 --> 01:14:55.400
You're one of 3 freaks that have asked me to pay in Monero,
1157
01:14:56.015 --> 01:14:56.755
since I've
1158
01:14:57.855 --> 01:14:58.815
been since I've been,
1159
01:14:59.615 --> 01:15:01.315
distributing the dispatch ads.
1160
01:15:03.210 --> 01:15:09.070
What do you wanna talk about? I know you have strong opinions. I know you think certain things aren't covered on here. You wanna talk about KYC?
1161
01:15:10.409 --> 01:15:12.670
I mean, there is plenty of topics.
1162
01:15:13.435 --> 01:15:15.275
I mean, we could go on for
1163
01:15:16.955 --> 01:15:19.935
If we can get to KYC, I appreciate the invite.
1164
01:15:20.490 --> 01:15:24.110
I appreciate the hug that you gave me along with the hat too. No
1165
01:15:24.490 --> 01:15:25.210
for the record.
1166
01:15:26.890 --> 01:15:27.390
But
1167
01:15:28.735 --> 01:15:29.235
I
1168
01:15:30.095 --> 01:15:32.355
can we talk about number go up, please?
1169
01:15:32.895 --> 01:15:35.790
Yeah. Oh, let's talk about it. Start us off.
1170
01:15:39.230 --> 01:15:39.730
Because,
1171
01:15:40.270 --> 01:15:42.370
at the end of the day, the thing with
1172
01:15:43.485 --> 01:15:44.225
with these,
1173
01:15:45.085 --> 01:15:46.465
scenarios of the borders
1174
01:15:47.085 --> 01:15:54.500
is that there is a huge difference, and you see firsthand or you experience it firsthand when you're escaping things.
1175
01:15:56.400 --> 01:15:58.820
If if you buy k y c coins
1176
01:15:59.655 --> 01:16:04.315
and you flee with those coins, they're going to have a permanent record or not permanent
1177
01:16:04.695 --> 01:16:11.350
before some compliant asshole says that it's a store for 10 years only because it's written in law blah blah blah.
1178
01:16:11.810 --> 01:16:16.550
Let's say 10 years. There is going to be a a record of how much you bought,
1179
01:16:17.155 --> 01:16:20.295
when, how, for 10 years while you're being,
1180
01:16:21.315 --> 01:16:22.615
I don't know, a refugee.
1181
01:16:23.235 --> 01:16:25.255
And for me, it's it's pointless.
1182
01:16:26.220 --> 01:16:30.240
And the the problem with number go up and mass adoption things
1183
01:16:30.940 --> 01:16:32.720
is that they make the user,
1184
01:16:34.700 --> 01:16:35.200
lazy.
1185
01:16:35.645 --> 01:16:36.784
They make the user,
1186
01:16:37.804 --> 01:16:42.784
more prone to entrusting third parties, to entrusting centralized exchanges.
1187
01:16:43.750 --> 01:16:45.130
They they don't,
1188
01:16:46.630 --> 01:16:47.690
advocate for,
1189
01:16:48.310 --> 01:16:49.210
self custody.
1190
01:16:49.830 --> 01:16:50.330
So,
1191
01:16:51.075 --> 01:16:54.455
effectively, number go up or pen permanent
1192
01:16:54.835 --> 01:16:57.735
pull or however you want to label it,
1193
01:16:58.170 --> 01:17:00.030
it's it's kind of a counterproductive,
1194
01:17:02.010 --> 01:17:02.510
narrative
1195
01:17:03.210 --> 01:17:07.345
because it's it's undermining what we're in for. If
1196
01:17:07.725 --> 01:17:09.505
we're in here to become sovereign,
1197
01:17:10.125 --> 01:17:11.185
to free ourselves,
1198
01:17:11.965 --> 01:17:13.505
to be self defiant,
1199
01:17:13.885 --> 01:17:14.385
unconvertible
1200
01:17:14.765 --> 01:17:15.265
misfits,
1201
01:17:17.239 --> 01:17:25.420
while we're advocating for people to, I don't know, sign up on Swan or Cash App or your next KYC shop,
1202
01:17:26.755 --> 01:17:29.735
you're not you're you're you're kind of being hypocrite
1203
01:17:30.515 --> 01:17:33.415
because you're advocating just to enrich yourself.
1204
01:17:33.770 --> 01:17:35.630
You're not advocating to free,
1205
01:17:36.170 --> 01:17:37.470
others or yourself,
1206
01:17:38.090 --> 01:17:40.670
and that's what pisses me off big time.
1207
01:17:41.265 --> 01:17:43.205
Because while you're evocating
1208
01:17:43.665 --> 01:17:45.125
for a tool for freedom,
1209
01:17:45.585 --> 01:17:47.605
you're not using the tool correctly.
1210
01:17:48.225 --> 01:17:50.485
You're telling the state that you own it.
1211
01:17:51.070 --> 01:17:57.410
And not only you're telling your the state that you own it, you're also entrusting private companies with your data.
1212
01:17:57.790 --> 01:17:58.930
So it's it's
1213
01:17:59.395 --> 01:18:01.815
it's like, what are you doing? And
1214
01:18:03.315 --> 01:18:06.935
it it it happens in multiple chains. I I'm not saying this
1215
01:18:07.310 --> 01:18:09.170
just because Bitcoin maximalist
1216
01:18:09.550 --> 01:18:13.090
suck. It happens in Monero as well. It happens anywhere.
1217
01:18:13.630 --> 01:18:16.530
Number number go up is is just stupid.
1218
01:18:17.855 --> 01:18:20.755
And there there cannot be just 1 coin either.
1219
01:18:21.215 --> 01:18:23.315
This is going on a tangent, but, still,
1220
01:18:24.415 --> 01:18:27.760
I don't care if Bitcoin goes to $1 tomorrow.
1221
01:18:28.460 --> 01:18:32.079
I know the mining dynamics, blah blah blah. It's nonprofitable
1222
01:18:32.540 --> 01:18:33.520
blah blah blah.
1223
01:18:34.035 --> 01:18:38.215
But the point is, if if Bitcoin were to go to $1 tomorrow
1224
01:18:38.915 --> 01:18:41.255
and Monero goes to 1¢ tomorrow,
1225
01:18:41.870 --> 01:18:43.890
the transactions will still clear.
1226
01:18:44.270 --> 01:18:46.130
People would still be sovereign.
1227
01:18:46.510 --> 01:18:48.210
People will be still sovereign.
1228
01:18:48.670 --> 01:18:51.330
So I think the motto of my my rant is
1229
01:18:51.855 --> 01:18:53.474
let's focus more on sovereignty,
1230
01:18:54.255 --> 01:18:55.315
on on
1231
01:18:55.855 --> 01:18:56.355
freedom,
1232
01:18:57.054 --> 01:19:00.915
on freedom of speech, and on financial freedom and independence,
1233
01:19:01.970 --> 01:19:02.470
rather
1234
01:19:03.170 --> 01:19:05.830
than Bitcoin is going to go through, I don't know,
1235
01:19:06.290 --> 01:19:06.790
200,000,000.
1236
01:19:07.810 --> 01:19:13.975
There is not going to be anything else. We're phasing everything out just because Austrian economics are awesome
1237
01:19:15.075 --> 01:19:22.659
and whatever else. It's just a lot of blatant back pumping, and it's just part of my friends, and I'm done with this, retarded.
1238
01:19:29.315 --> 01:19:31.575
Well, I mean, I agree with a lot of what you said,
1239
01:19:33.155 --> 01:19:34.695
if not most of it.
1240
01:19:35.715 --> 01:19:36.535
Would you
1241
01:19:38.330 --> 01:19:41.390
when you say number go up, you don't necessarily mean
1242
01:19:42.570 --> 01:19:45.710
do I mean, do you not think that the data will increase?
1243
01:19:46.325 --> 01:19:48.025
Woah. What will happen there?
1244
01:19:50.165 --> 01:19:53.225
Somebody drops any something. Can you repeat that?
1245
01:19:53.605 --> 01:19:54.905
Just smacked his table.
1246
01:19:55.510 --> 01:19:59.210
No. It's my cat jumping on shit behind me. Continue. Continue.
1247
01:20:00.710 --> 01:20:04.810
You you mean more of, like, the culture surrounding it rather than actual,
1248
01:20:06.615 --> 01:20:08.475
like, purchasing power going up.
1249
01:20:08.935 --> 01:20:15.035
Yeah. I yeah. For sure. It's just a lots of of people on Twitter or whatever else
1250
01:20:15.560 --> 01:20:16.060
that
1251
01:20:17.800 --> 01:20:20.380
just go on on cancel run pages.
1252
01:20:21.160 --> 01:20:23.555
Get it off of BISQ or Minit
1253
01:20:24.415 --> 01:20:25.635
or Bio 2C.
1254
01:20:26.575 --> 01:20:27.875
And it's
1255
01:20:28.335 --> 01:20:35.470
it's like, yes. We're going to achieve mass adoption through Swan, but but that's not the that's not the way. It's like
1256
01:20:36.010 --> 01:20:44.535
I don't know. For me, it feels like I feel I I see a person hitting her, their heads with a closet door over and over again
1257
01:20:45.075 --> 01:20:46.135
and being in denial.
1258
01:20:46.755 --> 01:21:02.425
Yes. We're winning the fight, but we're not exactly winning. I'm shooting my own feet while I'm saying that I'm winning. You get what I mean. It's like It's funny. I was at a a meetup last night, and some of the guys there are kinda newer Bitcoiners.
1259
01:21:03.125 --> 01:21:05.224
And they were kinda coming to the same realization
1260
01:21:05.764 --> 01:21:06.264
where
1261
01:21:08.220 --> 01:21:12.000
mass adoption at all costs, you know, if,
1262
01:21:12.380 --> 01:21:19.475
you know, huge KYC exchanges, most people having their coins locked up on exchanges like it is right now,
1263
01:21:20.335 --> 01:21:25.555
they were they came to the conclusion themselves that that's just not worth it. It's kind of defeating,
1264
01:21:26.909 --> 01:21:28.130
to this dream of,
1265
01:21:28.590 --> 01:21:33.489
you know, the, like, the white paper itself is titled Bitcoin is electronic cash,
1266
01:21:33.895 --> 01:21:35.995
and it's supposed to be peer to peer without
1267
01:21:36.295 --> 01:21:36.795
intermediaries.
1268
01:21:37.655 --> 01:21:40.635
You know, Satoshi said it in the first sentence of the abstract.
1269
01:21:41.840 --> 01:21:45.220
So it couldn't be clearer, you know, what the mission is here.
1270
01:21:45.760 --> 01:21:49.060
And I think most people will realize very quickly,
1271
01:21:49.445 --> 01:21:52.905
especially once you have a sizable stack and you could become a target,
1272
01:21:53.525 --> 01:21:55.385
that it's not worth it
1273
01:21:56.245 --> 01:21:58.665
to have everyone within the walled garden.
1274
01:21:59.140 --> 01:22:01.320
If that's what it takes for mass adoption,
1275
01:22:01.620 --> 01:22:02.120
then,
1276
01:22:02.820 --> 01:22:07.480
we've effectively failed. And I get that privacy will always be a fringe movement,
1277
01:22:07.995 --> 01:22:16.175
and self custody is getting a lot better, and and more people than ever are pulling their coins off exchanges and things like that and thinking about privacy.
1278
01:22:16.560 --> 01:22:18.900
And, you know, the wind is in our sails very much,
1279
01:22:19.680 --> 01:22:26.075
but we still have a really, really long way to go before we even put a dent in all of this KYC
1280
01:22:26.935 --> 01:22:28.235
mindset and custodial
1281
01:22:28.615 --> 01:22:29.115
mindset.
1282
01:22:30.135 --> 01:22:31.835
So so do you guys think,
1283
01:22:32.855 --> 01:22:33.915
I think we all
1284
01:22:34.340 --> 01:22:37.880
agree that, you know, KYC Bitcoin has already captured Bitcoin.
1285
01:22:39.140 --> 01:22:44.895
I mean, it's ideal that people self custody. I I still think that's a net benefit even if they KYC.
1286
01:22:47.114 --> 01:22:58.080
But, you know, in a in a truly adversarial environment, if there's a record of you purchasing Bitcoin, how much Bitcoin you purchased, your withdrawal addresses, you don't use any privacy best practices going forward.
1287
01:22:58.860 --> 01:23:03.155
So your future transactions and balances are are essentially actively tracked.
1288
01:23:05.295 --> 01:23:08.435
There's a lot of points where pressure can be put on you.
1289
01:23:08.895 --> 01:23:12.190
I mean, we just saw with the the Department of Justice,
1290
01:23:13.050 --> 01:23:19.710
they seized those Bitfinex hacked coins. Right? And that was the largest single seizure in Department of Justice history.
1291
01:23:20.345 --> 01:23:22.685
So we have people sending out engagement tweets
1292
01:23:23.385 --> 01:23:25.965
saying that, you know, Bitcoin is unconfiscatable,
1293
01:23:26.960 --> 01:23:28.980
but meanwhile, the largest confiscation
1294
01:23:29.360 --> 01:23:31.060
in department of justice history
1295
01:23:31.760 --> 01:23:32.820
was done with Bitcoin.
1296
01:23:34.425 --> 01:23:40.125
So, obviously, the privacy aspect is key there, and it's not just the state because these records are kept
1297
01:23:40.665 --> 01:23:43.965
practically forever. You can just pretty much assume they're kept forever,
1298
01:23:45.120 --> 01:23:46.500
and they're stored in securely.
1299
01:23:46.800 --> 01:23:49.540
We've seen anything that can get hacked will get hacked.
1300
01:23:50.160 --> 01:23:55.935
So it's not just the state. It's all different sorts of malicious entities that are gonna get their hands on this kind of information.
1301
01:23:56.555 --> 01:24:06.320
There's too many misconceptions about Bitcoin, and this has this has happened to everyone. You remember even whenever we listen to Ross Ulbrich speak at the BTC 2021,
1302
01:24:07.180 --> 01:24:10.560
he said he mistakenly thought that Bitcoin was private. Right?
1303
01:24:11.260 --> 01:24:11.760
And,
1304
01:24:12.824 --> 01:24:15.804
this has been going on for a long time. People say it's unconfiscatable.
1305
01:24:16.665 --> 01:24:19.440
It's not. Just like you said, they confiscated it,
1306
01:24:20.080 --> 01:24:27.140
from that the Department of Justice confiscated it from the Department of Justice. They put a gun to their head. Exactly. Give us a fucking Bitcoin. It is
1307
01:24:27.485 --> 01:24:31.425
confiscatable. It can be centralized. It can be fully custodial.
1308
01:24:31.965 --> 01:24:43.440
It and Bitcoin is what you make it. It is how you use the tools. And Bitcoin means different things to different people. So sure, while an energy plant wants to offset their flare off by using Bitcoin
1309
01:24:43.775 --> 01:24:48.835
and they're already within the system, that's one thing. That Bitcoin means one thing to that industry.
1310
01:24:49.295 --> 01:24:53.554
But to our side of the industry where we wanna use Bitcoin like it's cash,
1311
01:24:54.240 --> 01:24:59.540
you have to use the tools completely differently and you have to operate completely differently. And if you just
1312
01:25:00.080 --> 01:25:04.245
and if you just listen to people on Twitter who say, you know, Bitcoin's perfect.
1313
01:25:04.625 --> 01:25:07.525
It's perfectly decentralized. It's totally unconfiscatable.
1314
01:25:08.305 --> 01:25:09.605
It's anonymous. Whatever.
1315
01:25:11.290 --> 01:25:15.150
You know, then you're gonna get fooled. And you're not gonna get proper education.
1316
01:25:15.770 --> 01:25:20.030
You're just gonna smash that like button and believe everything you read. Like and retweet.
1317
01:25:20.545 --> 01:25:21.205
Yep. And,
1318
01:25:21.825 --> 01:25:22.645
you know, unfortunately,
1319
01:25:23.345 --> 01:25:26.965
it's detrimental. These influencers are fucking over a lot of people,
1320
01:25:27.505 --> 01:25:30.085
and especially people who really need privacy
1321
01:25:30.610 --> 01:25:33.590
because there's people out there, like he was talking about in Venezuela,
1322
01:25:34.370 --> 01:25:44.745
and we see users like this all the time in the Ronin Dojo and the samurai rooms. There's people out there who can't screw up. And if they do, it has serious real world real world consequences.
1323
01:25:45.125 --> 01:25:46.345
And these influencers
1324
01:25:46.980 --> 01:25:48.420
are not taking it seriously.
1325
01:25:49.940 --> 01:25:54.760
You know, I don't know if they just they're just boosting their ego or they're just engagement farming.
1326
01:25:55.625 --> 01:26:08.350
But either way, I see it as harmful to the industry at large. Yeah. I mean, when you screw up on Bitcoin, I mean, it happens on a ledger that is probably gonna outlive us all. Yeah. So it can be used against you in the future,
1327
01:26:09.530 --> 01:26:15.934
by a passive attacker that might not even be watching you yet, doesn't have external data yet, but gets it later.
1328
01:26:16.235 --> 01:26:20.554
But to to jump off there, I mean, where I was going with that question was
1329
01:26:21.250 --> 01:26:23.910
I mean, it wasn't a question yet, but this was the question.
1330
01:26:25.170 --> 01:26:29.190
Is this idea of, like, mass adoption at all costs, this idea of
1331
01:26:30.034 --> 01:26:32.054
the majority of people coming in through KYC,
1332
01:26:32.994 --> 01:26:36.855
is is it an attack on Bitcoin, or is it a threat to the individuals
1333
01:26:37.715 --> 01:26:38.215
that
1334
01:26:39.090 --> 01:26:40.469
are captured by it?
1335
01:26:41.010 --> 01:26:41.842
Both. I mean
1336
01:26:42.385 --> 01:26:43.170
my opinion. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
1337
01:26:44.610 --> 01:26:48.070
I I could sound like Alex Jones or some shit like that.
1338
01:26:48.845 --> 01:26:52.705
But for me, k y c k y c is, an active,
1339
01:26:53.965 --> 01:26:54.465
attack
1340
01:26:56.059 --> 01:27:00.320
from the state and and the private companies and the essentially a way to
1341
01:27:01.739 --> 01:27:02.239
seize,
1342
01:27:02.940 --> 01:27:04.320
considerable amount of
1343
01:27:05.445 --> 01:27:07.864
the supply and hold the hostage and be like,
1344
01:27:08.324 --> 01:27:10.585
I don't know, some fucked up movie scene.
1345
01:27:10.965 --> 01:27:20.489
Do you want the ice cone? The ice cream cone? Come and get it. The first suck my dick. You know what I mean? It's it's just fucked up. K y c, it's it's the enemy,
1346
01:27:21.190 --> 01:27:21.690
and
1347
01:27:22.355 --> 01:27:22.855
it's
1348
01:27:23.955 --> 01:27:26.535
I I I don't say that I'm pristine.
1349
01:27:27.235 --> 01:27:30.215
I don't say that I'm an I don't know the best
1350
01:27:31.420 --> 01:27:37.600
Bitcoin owner, and I'm supremely anonymous on Mars because I as well have KYC coins.
1351
01:27:38.935 --> 01:27:40.795
They may or may not be mine,
1352
01:27:42.375 --> 01:27:46.315
as in I was the one to who put the documents. But regardless,
1353
01:27:46.909 --> 01:27:53.570
I have owned, k y c coins. And as I say before, they're like the poison to me.
1354
01:27:54.415 --> 01:27:56.835
As long as I see the opportunity to spend them,
1355
01:27:57.295 --> 01:27:58.114
go for it.
1356
01:27:58.815 --> 01:28:02.195
It's just an effective attack from the state and the central banks
1357
01:28:03.100 --> 01:28:05.040
and should be avoided at all costs.
1358
01:28:05.980 --> 01:28:07.040
That's my take.
1359
01:28:08.860 --> 01:28:16.505
I mean, using using Bitcoin or or sort of accepting Bitcoin donations can be done in the sort of with the best intentions, can't it?
1360
01:28:17.465 --> 01:28:20.540
You know, trying to use an asset which is, unconfiscatable,
1361
01:28:22.760 --> 01:28:23.560
and, you know,
1362
01:28:24.120 --> 01:28:32.815
as s 2 l said before, you know, it's peer to peer. Electronic digital cash is is all well and great, but it's an immutable ledger. And,
1363
01:28:34.015 --> 01:28:37.739
I think we saw we saw the sort of the events
1364
01:28:38.440 --> 01:28:39.900
of the Canada donations
1365
01:28:40.280 --> 01:28:40.780
to,
1366
01:28:41.560 --> 01:28:42.060
the,
1367
01:28:42.760 --> 01:28:43.420
the truckers,
1368
01:28:43.880 --> 01:28:44.860
that were protesting,
1369
01:28:46.325 --> 01:28:47.465
you know, sort of,
1370
01:28:48.805 --> 01:28:50.425
I guess, sort of Bitcoin Twitter
1371
01:28:51.525 --> 01:28:52.345
went from,
1372
01:28:53.045 --> 01:28:53.630
sort of
1373
01:28:54.590 --> 01:28:56.690
I don't really know how to phrase it, but sort of
1374
01:28:57.150 --> 01:28:59.810
celebrating and and championing a a a crowdsource
1375
01:29:01.085 --> 01:29:02.545
fund of of Bitcoin
1376
01:29:02.925 --> 01:29:03.665
to support,
1377
01:29:04.285 --> 01:29:05.585
the truckers. But,
1378
01:29:05.965 --> 01:29:09.430
you know, when it came down to it and and I and I don't mean to say this
1379
01:29:09.990 --> 01:29:12.410
in a in a too much of a negative sense,
1380
01:29:12.790 --> 01:29:13.290
because
1381
01:29:13.590 --> 01:29:14.810
I think that the,
1382
01:29:16.230 --> 01:29:20.425
that, you know, those that backed the the sort of the Crowdfund campaign
1383
01:29:20.965 --> 01:29:23.845
did it for the right reasons. But when it came down to it,
1384
01:29:24.725 --> 01:29:27.065
you know, there were some some sort of basic,
1385
01:29:28.280 --> 01:29:29.580
unfortunately, some basic,
1386
01:29:30.440 --> 01:29:31.900
Bitcoins or 101,
1387
01:29:34.440 --> 01:29:34.940
101
1388
01:29:36.284 --> 01:29:36.784
rules.
1389
01:29:37.165 --> 01:29:38.525
Can you call it those? Could it
1390
01:29:39.565 --> 01:29:45.139
that that weren't followed, which which sort of led to some some real big screw ups. And,
1391
01:29:45.599 --> 01:29:46.260
you know,
1392
01:29:46.800 --> 01:29:50.260
going back to, I think, one of you said earlier, you know, not screwing up. Well,
1393
01:29:51.555 --> 01:29:53.335
not screwing up today doesn't mean
1394
01:29:53.875 --> 01:29:59.315
not being bit in the ass, you know, tomorrow or in in a week or in a year,
1395
01:30:00.050 --> 01:30:01.830
because of the immutable ledger. So
1396
01:30:02.690 --> 01:30:06.310
obtaining an OKYC Bitcoin is is a step in the right direction,
1397
01:30:07.090 --> 01:30:07.590
certainly.
1398
01:30:08.850 --> 01:30:10.745
There are some tools you can use,
1399
01:30:11.364 --> 01:30:12.905
with Bitcoin that can
1400
01:30:13.205 --> 01:30:13.705
certainly
1401
01:30:14.405 --> 01:30:15.145
help you,
1402
01:30:15.685 --> 01:30:16.185
transact,
1403
01:30:17.690 --> 01:30:19.790
not only sort of freely, but
1404
01:30:20.250 --> 01:30:20.750
privately.
1405
01:30:22.090 --> 01:30:26.635
And, you know, watching the the sort of, like, what went on in
1406
01:30:27.195 --> 01:30:29.454
Canada with that that donation round,
1407
01:30:30.474 --> 01:30:35.710
was was really difficult to observe because, you know, what, I guess,
1408
01:30:36.250 --> 01:30:38.350
maybe us that have sort of frequented
1409
01:30:39.130 --> 01:30:41.310
the more privacy sort of chats,
1410
01:30:42.250 --> 01:30:45.575
on on Telegram and on on Twitter and the likes
1411
01:30:45.955 --> 01:30:51.415
is difficult to watch because, you know, reusing addresses, for example, is is one that is
1412
01:30:52.420 --> 01:30:55.239
is horrible to watch and, you know, easily tracks
1413
01:30:55.780 --> 01:30:56.440
on chain.
1414
01:30:57.300 --> 01:30:58.920
And, you know, not using CoinJoin,
1415
01:30:59.795 --> 01:31:03.615
regardless of whether you obtained your Bitcoin through KYC means,
1416
01:31:04.115 --> 01:31:05.175
making a donation
1417
01:31:06.035 --> 01:31:08.615
with Bitcoin, which hasn't been through CoinJoin,
1418
01:31:10.139 --> 01:31:12.560
to put a line in the sand between
1419
01:31:13.020 --> 01:31:16.080
where your Bitcoin came from and its future spending,
1420
01:31:16.620 --> 01:31:17.840
you know, future spending
1421
01:31:18.574 --> 01:31:19.074
trail.
1422
01:31:21.454 --> 01:31:22.335
You know, it's,
1423
01:31:22.974 --> 01:31:24.434
it's difficult to watch
1424
01:31:24.974 --> 01:31:27.640
people sort of screw others through,
1425
01:31:28.500 --> 01:31:31.800
through their use of not not trying to transact privately on Bitcoin.
1426
01:31:33.685 --> 01:31:35.865
Definitely well said and very diplomatic.
1427
01:31:36.405 --> 01:31:42.185
And I think what brother Rabbit was trying to say is a bunch of influencers got caught with their freaking pants down
1428
01:31:42.700 --> 01:31:43.440
and proved,
1429
01:31:44.300 --> 01:31:48.880
you know, what they really know and what the status of things really is.
1430
01:31:49.900 --> 01:31:50.960
That was a great,
1431
01:31:51.675 --> 01:31:53.135
litmus test for
1432
01:31:53.515 --> 01:31:56.015
the current status of Bitcoin privacy,
1433
01:31:56.555 --> 01:31:58.255
and it failed, right, miserably.
1434
01:31:59.540 --> 01:32:02.920
It shows that, you know, education is extremely important.
1435
01:32:03.460 --> 01:32:04.200
And, like,
1436
01:32:04.580 --> 01:32:08.385
like what you're doing, brother Rabbit or Bitcoin QA or whoever's
1437
01:32:09.165 --> 01:32:11.665
helping, you know, write guides or teach,
1438
01:32:12.605 --> 01:32:23.070
that's the best thing we can do. Because when you look at that shit show that happened with the donations in Canada, it's very obvious we have a long way to go in proper education.
1439
01:32:26.335 --> 01:32:27.715
Yeah. That shit was,
1440
01:32:31.135 --> 01:32:33.635
extremely frustrating to watch go down.
1441
01:32:35.840 --> 01:32:37.140
On a positive note,
1442
01:32:38.000 --> 01:32:39.300
as a result of that,
1443
01:32:39.760 --> 01:32:41.700
I did still dispatch 57
1444
01:32:42.160 --> 01:32:45.685
with Pavel next and coin joiner and Tony,
1445
01:32:46.225 --> 01:32:54.590
and we covered every pretty much, I like to think that everything you need to know about crowdfunding with best is taken into account in an adversarial environment.
1446
01:32:55.530 --> 01:32:57.949
So if you are thinking of crowdfunding in the future
1447
01:32:58.650 --> 01:33:00.429
and you're listening to this, you should
1448
01:33:01.155 --> 01:33:03.655
go listen to that episode 57.
1449
01:33:05.075 --> 01:33:07.895
Going back real quick, I wanted to highlight,
1450
01:33:10.355 --> 01:33:12.440
if if you don't think that KYC
1451
01:33:13.139 --> 01:33:16.119
and mass chain surveillance is an attack on Bitcoin,
1452
01:33:17.219 --> 01:33:22.045
you know, you gotta check yourself. Because what better way is there to attack something
1453
01:33:22.505 --> 01:33:31.130
than to bring it into the fold, bring it into the system? Right? They can't turn it off. They can't fight it. They can't disable all the nodes and all the miners.
1454
01:33:31.590 --> 01:33:37.850
So what better way than you to need your ID and, you know, your driver's license, your passport?
1455
01:33:38.695 --> 01:33:41.755
You know, what better way to control this thing.
1456
01:33:43.094 --> 01:33:50.510
And if if everyone has to work within these walled gardens and say things like self custody become frowned upon or
1457
01:33:50.970 --> 01:33:58.605
it becomes difficult, like exchanges start asking you tons of questions about self custody coin or coin joined coin,
1458
01:34:00.445 --> 01:34:03.505
then that's gonna be their way to crack down effectively.
1459
01:34:05.210 --> 01:34:12.255
You know, you you put the privacy guys in a corner, you put the self custody guys in a corner and put pressure on them.
1460
01:34:13.455 --> 01:34:17.795
And everyone else who stays within the fold and gives up their ID,
1461
01:34:19.215 --> 01:34:25.880
then they're fine. That's They all get number go up. They all get number go up. They might actually think it's bullish. It's regulatory clarity.
1462
01:34:26.260 --> 01:34:31.725
And and remember whenever Bitcoin used to be about challenging the dollar, having a true alternative,
1463
01:34:33.165 --> 01:34:35.185
you know, when when did,
1464
01:34:35.725 --> 01:34:41.400
you know, parking in Tether and having all these options to trade to stable coins and all this stuff.
1465
01:34:41.860 --> 01:34:57.970
But when did that become popular? It it happened overnight, but that's not really what Bitcoin is about. It's not about USD gains. It's not about number go up. You know, it might be for you, if that's how you treat it, you treat it just like a savings account and you never spend a sat in your life.
1466
01:34:58.590 --> 01:35:01.650
But for a lot of people, that's not what Bitcoin means.
1467
01:35:02.350 --> 01:35:05.730
And at least for all the freaks who are listening out there,
1468
01:35:06.415 --> 01:35:07.395
you know, KYC
1469
01:35:07.775 --> 01:35:10.835
is the antithesis of Bitcoin, and you should know that.
1470
01:35:12.655 --> 01:35:16.719
And, I mean, besides the whole surveillance aspect of KYC, and I would I would
1471
01:35:17.679 --> 01:35:22.980
it was a little bit I was curious what you guys are gonna answer, but it's obviously an attack on Bitcoin.
1472
01:35:23.525 --> 01:35:27.065
It's a massive attack on Bitcoin, and everyone's just blissfully unaware
1473
01:35:27.844 --> 01:35:29.784
or intentionally ignorant about it.
1474
01:35:30.324 --> 01:35:32.185
And I think part of it is because
1475
01:35:34.460 --> 01:35:39.840
it's just easier to be an influencer if you just absolve yourself and everyone else of personal responsibility.
1476
01:35:40.615 --> 01:35:45.995
So I think there's an element of laziness. I think there's an element of ego. I think there's an element to monetization.
1477
01:35:46.375 --> 01:35:48.635
It's easier to monetize sheep than freemen.
1478
01:35:51.739 --> 01:35:52.139
But,
1479
01:35:52.540 --> 01:35:56.880
in in in addition to the surveillance aspects of KYC, I mean, KYC,
1480
01:35:58.335 --> 01:35:58.835
did
1481
01:35:59.215 --> 01:36:00.675
the these requirements
1482
01:36:01.455 --> 01:36:06.515
keep out a ton of people in terms of financial access. I mean, there's, there's
1483
01:36:06.940 --> 01:36:10.720
there's boatloads of people that are blocked out of the traditional financial system,
1484
01:36:11.420 --> 01:36:16.685
and they're blocked out of out of these KYC on ramps as well with Bitcoin. So it's it's
1485
01:36:18.245 --> 01:36:19.965
to me, it's always about
1486
01:36:20.685 --> 01:36:28.290
it's about financial freedom. Right? And they're just completely blocked out about from using these tools, And it's more than just onramps now.
1487
01:36:28.989 --> 01:36:32.690
It's it's tools that you use once you have Bitcoin as well.
1488
01:36:33.070 --> 01:36:37.074
Right? It's not it's not just the on and off ramps, like people like to say.
1489
01:36:37.855 --> 01:36:38.355
And,
1490
01:36:39.135 --> 01:36:42.994
remember whenever Bitcoin used to be banking the unbanked or the underbanked?
1491
01:36:43.330 --> 01:36:47.350
Well, you know, what was that, 2014, 2015 when people used to say that?
1492
01:36:47.730 --> 01:36:53.145
You know, what happened to that? Where did that go? How are we gonna bank the unbanked and the underbanked
1493
01:36:53.525 --> 01:36:56.105
and people who don't have access to proper ID
1494
01:36:56.485 --> 01:37:02.105
and proper banking services? You know, how are we gonna get them taken care of if everything in the future is,
1495
01:37:02.710 --> 01:37:05.450
you know, strike and KYC'd up
1496
01:37:05.830 --> 01:37:09.050
and custodial? And, you know, those people are never gonna qualify.
1497
01:37:10.525 --> 01:37:13.345
And you yeah. I mean, you see a taste of it with BlockFi,
1498
01:37:15.645 --> 01:37:16.865
because, like, BlockFi
1499
01:37:19.380 --> 01:37:19.880
explicitly,
1500
01:37:20.659 --> 01:37:25.400
you know, blocks CoinJoin usage. So it's a slippery slope where it's like
1501
01:37:26.295 --> 01:37:27.034
it's like,
1502
01:37:27.335 --> 01:37:34.395
do they technically let you do self custody? Like, yeah. But, like, if you do something on chain they don't like after you take custody,
1503
01:37:35.300 --> 01:37:38.840
they close your account and take any funds that you have in your account.
1504
01:37:39.460 --> 01:37:46.635
Yep. So so So, honestly, I think it's the device they don't make. Custody? Or they, like, is that even self custody at that point?
1505
01:37:47.255 --> 01:37:47.755
No.
1506
01:37:48.295 --> 01:37:55.020
I mean, barely. But and, also, I see a divide just coming in general in the industry. You know, the the compliant
1507
01:37:55.720 --> 01:37:57.100
platforms and noncompliance
1508
01:37:57.480 --> 01:38:02.940
will continue to separate, and there'll be a bigger and bigger divide over time, in my opinion.
1509
01:38:09.945 --> 01:38:13.804
Pressure from all angles, and most people are just blissfully unaware.
1510
01:38:16.730 --> 01:38:18.510
I mean, what is sad
1511
01:38:18.969 --> 01:38:21.469
what is sad is that that divide manifests,
1512
01:38:22.250 --> 01:38:23.869
in within us.
1513
01:38:24.764 --> 01:38:26.545
You can clearly see how,
1514
01:38:28.045 --> 01:38:37.390
we're we're just getting between sorry for the punch line, Matt. I I don't mean it, but we're getting a split between stay humble at Stack Sats
1515
01:38:38.090 --> 01:38:44.395
and just be a defiant asshole and stack through DISC, and I don't know, spend it through, I don't know,
1516
01:38:44.775 --> 01:38:48.395
back end market. I don't know what I mean? Humble StackSats is
1517
01:38:49.175 --> 01:38:52.860
No. It's easy. Go. KYC, Cuck services. No. No.
1518
01:38:53.239 --> 01:38:56.060
I think you should be humble humble enough to
1519
01:38:56.760 --> 01:38:59.500
humble enough to realize the threat that KYC is.
1520
01:39:00.355 --> 01:39:01.335
Indeed. Indeed.
1521
01:39:03.795 --> 01:39:08.010
But I Again, it was just I was just being playful. That's why I love you.
1522
01:39:12.650 --> 01:39:14.030
You know, I mean, I I
1523
01:39:14.489 --> 01:39:18.945
I I think that's one of the I mean, stay humble, stack sets is what you make of it. But
1524
01:39:19.485 --> 01:39:20.945
at least from my perspective,
1525
01:39:22.445 --> 01:39:23.105
you know,
1526
01:39:24.205 --> 01:39:25.025
like, it's
1527
01:39:25.610 --> 01:39:29.390
it's this idea that that you need to have personal responsibility.
1528
01:39:29.930 --> 01:39:34.830
There there's I think a lot of what you can see in the corruption of this space
1529
01:39:35.935 --> 01:39:47.620
over the last however many years I mean, people don't even realize, like, in 2016, like, KYC was basically nowhere, and they it just got rolled out everywhere really quick, normalized super fucking quick. People come into the space now,
1530
01:39:48.080 --> 01:39:48.740
and they,
1531
01:39:49.120 --> 01:39:54.420
you know, they they KYC, like, 8 different services. You know, they send their passport all over the place.
1532
01:39:57.615 --> 01:40:08.180
Like, you know, part of it to me is, like, be humble enough to realize that, like, when BlockFi tells you I mean, they don't even offer it anymore. But when, like, BlockFi tells you, like, you're gonna get 6% on your Bitcoin
1533
01:40:08.800 --> 01:40:15.915
and that there's, like, no risk there, that that there's a shit ton of risk and that you're just completely exposing yourself.
1534
01:40:18.615 --> 01:40:24.480
I mean, I don't think BlockFi are the only ones sort of, you know, with dirty hands, really. You know, you've got Oh, 100%.
1535
01:40:24.920 --> 01:40:26.120
You've got companies like,
1536
01:40:27.160 --> 01:40:32.675
one that springs to mind is, like, Bottlepay. I mean, they they were a UK business that,
1537
01:40:34.495 --> 01:40:39.880
I I wasn't too familiar with them before they, if you like, went away and came back. But to my understanding,
1538
01:40:40.180 --> 01:40:41.880
their their intentions were good,
1539
01:40:42.820 --> 01:40:48.725
before they went away. And they went away under sort of new regulations that were brought in in the UK.
1540
01:40:49.025 --> 01:40:50.645
And they're ones that have sort
1541
01:40:51.025 --> 01:40:54.725
of taken those regular would you call it regulations, Matt? I mean,
1542
01:40:56.100 --> 01:40:56.600
taken
1543
01:40:57.140 --> 01:40:59.300
let's let's call it regulations. Take taking those
1544
01:41:01.140 --> 01:41:03.160
With bottle pay bottle pay,
1545
01:41:04.020 --> 01:41:04.920
first of all,
1546
01:41:06.085 --> 01:41:08.265
I was an adviser to bottle pay
1547
01:41:08.725 --> 01:41:09.865
before they were KYC'd.
1548
01:41:12.510 --> 01:41:14.210
And I was proud of their team
1549
01:41:14.750 --> 01:41:15.250
when
1550
01:41:15.950 --> 01:41:17.730
so what happened was the FCA,
1551
01:41:18.030 --> 01:41:23.455
which is, like, the British FinCEN or whatever, the financial regulator came in and hit them with KYC.
1552
01:41:24.635 --> 01:41:27.535
But, like, new regs came out very strict.
1553
01:41:28.875 --> 01:41:31.230
They were like, you need to KYC everybody.
1554
01:41:31.929 --> 01:41:36.909
And what they did was they completely shut down bottle pay, had everyone withdraw all their money.
1555
01:41:37.364 --> 01:41:40.824
Yeah. And then they separately launched a KYC product.
1556
01:41:41.205 --> 01:41:41.705
So
1557
01:41:42.645 --> 01:41:45.545
after that, there was a lot of fuckery that happened,
1558
01:41:45.910 --> 01:41:47.450
and they were blocking CoinJoin,
1559
01:41:47.910 --> 01:41:50.390
and there was a lot of over compliance that was happening.
1560
01:41:52.150 --> 01:41:53.850
But at least at that transition,
1561
01:41:54.285 --> 01:42:04.280
that's, you know, kind of what you wanna see. I mean, they put themselves at risk doing that. That was not, the easy move would have been shotgun KYC, and we see that all the time. Binance did shotgun KYC,
1562
01:42:04.820 --> 01:42:09.800
right, where they they onboarded people saying you didn't have to do KYC. And then after they had funds on the accounts,
1563
01:42:10.805 --> 01:42:12.985
they were like, you can't withdraw unless you do KYC.
1564
01:42:13.925 --> 01:42:24.510
But, you know, it's exactly that. It's that over compliance, and, you know, when when they came back, I I don't think they offered they you know, to what we've been talking about today, you know, I don't think they offered
1565
01:42:25.610 --> 01:42:27.390
anything of benefit to Bitcoin.
1566
01:42:28.010 --> 01:42:28.510
Right.
1567
01:42:28.855 --> 01:42:29.594
You know,
1568
01:42:30.375 --> 01:42:32.155
for the sort of morals and principles
1569
01:42:32.935 --> 01:42:35.355
mentioned mentioned above, if you like.
1570
01:42:36.500 --> 01:42:45.000
And, you know, they're they're a business that just relies on on on people, you know, DCA ing all the time and not even spending, not not using
1571
01:42:53.550 --> 01:43:01.935
been interpreted a few different ways over the years, but I think the sort of agreed upon definition is that it it is like the cash out of your wallet.
1572
01:43:02.895 --> 01:43:03.375
And,
1573
01:43:03.855 --> 01:43:05.715
you know, when you've got bottle pay,
1574
01:43:06.815 --> 01:43:07.315
refusing,
1575
01:43:08.895 --> 01:43:11.315
I think I think I think not only have they refused,
1576
01:43:11.870 --> 01:43:12.370
deposits,
1577
01:43:12.990 --> 01:43:14.450
that have have got past,
1578
01:43:15.150 --> 01:43:16.850
CoinJoin history, they've also,
1579
01:43:17.710 --> 01:43:20.450
and I may stand corrected on this, but they they've also,
1580
01:43:21.695 --> 01:43:24.595
pulled up, customers that have withdrawn
1581
01:43:24.975 --> 01:43:26.675
and then coin joined their funds.
1582
01:43:27.135 --> 01:43:46.135
So I don't think so. No? Okay. I'll have to be worried. What what service did you say was doing that? Bottle pay? Or It was deposit it was deposits only as my understanding. Okay. I I believe that they're thinking it was blocked by. Yeah. They there was one that was, like, 2 months after withdrawal that they followed up on, and that was pretty shocking.
1583
01:43:46.780 --> 01:43:58.045
But I expect most of them to start doing that. Like, that's not great. Yep. And I I do too. And and, you know, what what that is saying to all of us is that, you know, they don't give a shit about your privacy,
1584
01:43:59.305 --> 01:44:01.324
even even though you might have had to KYC
1585
01:44:01.705 --> 01:44:02.320
for that,
1586
01:44:02.880 --> 01:44:18.125
for that service or whatever, so they they they already didn't care about your privacy. But talking about your future spending habits or any any future any any any habits you, you know, you or any sort of privacy you want to take back when when spending, you know, they don't give a shit. So,
1587
01:44:20.520 --> 01:44:21.660
although KYC
1588
01:44:22.040 --> 01:44:25.980
no KYC is more is more difficult and, you know, we we try to
1589
01:44:27.255 --> 01:44:31.035
champion it as much as we can. We try to provide people with the information
1590
01:44:31.655 --> 01:44:32.715
as best we can.
1591
01:44:33.175 --> 01:44:41.119
These sort of services are sort of falling by the waistline. In fact, I I tried out a new, a new, no KYC service last week,
1592
01:44:41.500 --> 01:44:42.000
Azteco.
1593
01:44:43.020 --> 01:44:43.520
Yeah.
1594
01:44:44.035 --> 01:44:49.895
Although, you know, they've been around for a a fair while. They they bought in a service through PayPoint. So,
1595
01:44:51.160 --> 01:45:00.974
it it seemed genius at the time, and I'll and I'll get to the punch line in 2 moments. But, you know, the idea was that, you go online, you create an invoice,
1596
01:45:01.275 --> 01:45:04.655
if you like. You can either do it on chain or on lightning.
1597
01:45:05.915 --> 01:45:09.180
You enter in an email address, so you could use, like, an email alias,
1598
01:45:09.740 --> 01:45:13.360
and you turn up a a PayPoint. Now in the UK, you can pay your,
1599
01:45:13.900 --> 01:45:18.055
your gas and electric bill through PayPoint. And what it is is, you know, you walk into your,
1600
01:45:18.695 --> 01:45:21.035
sort of, corner shop if you like,
1601
01:45:21.735 --> 01:45:29.980
and you scan a barcode and, and you pay pay with your cash, your your gas and electric. So Azteco integrated with that system,
1602
01:45:31.800 --> 01:45:32.300
to,
1603
01:45:32.679 --> 01:45:39.525
pay for Bitcoin. Now all seems great, and I think it was last or it was on Saturday. I was at a meet up on Saturday, and,
1604
01:45:40.245 --> 01:45:41.385
a couple of the guys,
1605
01:45:41.845 --> 01:45:49.020
were sort of quite excited to to to hear about this new service. So I was accompanied by, I think, 4 other people to the to the corner shop
1606
01:45:49.400 --> 01:45:51.020
with my barcode in hand,
1607
01:45:51.400 --> 01:45:57.715
and got myself some no no KYC Bitcoin. But, you know, that service has has since been pulled. And,
1608
01:45:58.895 --> 01:45:59.395
and,
1609
01:45:59.770 --> 01:46:06.350
you know, it doesn't look like it's going to return, at least not sort of from the Twitter sentiment. But we can expect for
1610
01:46:06.975 --> 01:46:15.730
no KYC to, you know, continually be sort of quash, squashed, if you like. Yeah. I mean, I respect what the guys at Azteca are building,
1611
01:46:16.190 --> 01:46:20.130
but it does seem like their strategy, at least from my perspective,
1612
01:46:20.430 --> 01:46:20.930
is,
1613
01:46:22.385 --> 01:46:25.845
basically offload the regulatory burden on the individual vendors.
1614
01:46:26.225 --> 01:46:28.005
Yeah. Totally. And, ultimately,
1615
01:46:29.920 --> 01:46:31.700
individual states are gonna pressure
1616
01:46:33.120 --> 01:46:33.940
them to
1617
01:46:34.400 --> 01:46:35.780
either a centralized service.
1618
01:46:36.480 --> 01:46:45.365
So I I I I fear the unfortunate reality is that you're gonna see KYC rollout on those types of products as well. Hopefully, it takes longer.
1619
01:46:46.610 --> 01:46:48.630
One thing that was interesting this week
1620
01:46:49.250 --> 01:46:50.389
is so
1621
01:46:50.770 --> 01:46:51.989
the, you know,
1622
01:46:52.665 --> 01:46:56.205
the the US and their allies have put, like, their full weight
1623
01:46:56.665 --> 01:46:58.364
of of their financial
1624
01:46:58.745 --> 01:47:01.325
weaponry on Russia with sanctions.
1625
01:47:02.170 --> 01:47:03.310
And as a result,
1626
01:47:05.050 --> 01:47:05.550
regulated,
1627
01:47:06.650 --> 01:47:11.744
Bitcoin businesses are on the defensive because there's accusations that, you know, maybe,
1628
01:47:13.405 --> 01:47:15.184
Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies
1629
01:47:15.565 --> 01:47:19.264
are being used to evade sanctions. And as a result, what happened is,
1630
01:47:19.660 --> 01:47:23.679
you know, one of the really dark aspects of all this financial regulation
1631
01:47:23.980 --> 01:47:25.360
is that there's essentially,
1632
01:47:26.675 --> 01:47:28.295
either by law or
1633
01:47:28.995 --> 01:47:29.975
lawyer advice,
1634
01:47:31.555 --> 01:47:36.295
you have a situation where these companies can't really talk about what their policies are.
1635
01:47:38.020 --> 01:47:41.640
They never talk about them pub they very rarely talk about them publicly.
1636
01:47:42.260 --> 01:47:46.199
Even more rare is talking about exactly what their procedures are.
1637
01:47:48.014 --> 01:47:49.074
And, you know,
1638
01:47:50.014 --> 01:47:50.335
I've
1639
01:47:52.175 --> 01:47:52.995
I originally,
1640
01:47:54.370 --> 01:48:00.150
when I started working in this space, thought, you know, maybe there was a concept of, like, a best practices,
1641
01:48:01.255 --> 01:48:02.955
you know, like, the best possible
1642
01:48:04.055 --> 01:48:06.075
on ramp in spite of KYC.
1643
01:48:08.135 --> 01:48:08.635
And
1644
01:48:09.300 --> 01:48:11.160
I advised 2 companies
1645
01:48:11.860 --> 01:48:14.040
that were KYC onramps.
1646
01:48:15.060 --> 01:48:18.345
Disclosed them early and often, They're bottle pay and,
1647
01:48:19.205 --> 01:48:19.705
Swan,
1648
01:48:20.885 --> 01:48:21.785
both prelaunch.
1649
01:48:22.325 --> 01:48:30.430
Bottle pay started at non KYC. Swan was always KYC, but I saw a lot of, like, the behind the scenes shit that people don't see, and that is never talked about.
1650
01:48:31.290 --> 01:48:33.150
And I've since, you know,
1651
01:48:33.610 --> 01:48:34.510
do not think
1652
01:48:36.014 --> 01:48:37.315
it's it's productive
1653
01:48:37.855 --> 01:48:40.514
for me to spend my time doing that,
1654
01:48:42.094 --> 01:48:44.114
and better to focus on
1655
01:48:45.480 --> 01:48:47.660
on supporting open source projects, supporting
1656
01:48:48.520 --> 01:48:52.620
free education to people so that they can make their own decisions and their own assessments.
1657
01:48:53.115 --> 01:48:59.455
But one thing that is really interesting here this last week is because these Bitcoin exchanges were put on the defensive,
1658
01:48:59.915 --> 01:49:04.389
they're going above and beyond to kind of explain what their processes are.
1659
01:49:04.849 --> 01:49:09.190
And we had Brett Harrison, who I believe is the CEO of FTX.
1660
01:49:10.050 --> 01:49:11.110
He had this thread
1661
01:49:11.735 --> 01:49:13.675
that he put out 2 days ago,
1662
01:49:14.615 --> 01:49:16.155
and he outlined basically,
1663
01:49:16.775 --> 01:49:21.115
like, their entire process. And I just wanna just read it real quickly.
1664
01:49:22.990 --> 01:49:34.784
We collect identifying information of every user, including name, date of birth, phone number, Social Security number, and photo ID. We cross check this info against government databases to ensure veracity,
1665
01:49:35.485 --> 01:49:37.744
name matches, Social Security number, etcetera.
1666
01:49:38.170 --> 01:50:14.290
If we can't verify an an identity, that user is rejected and prohibited from trading. If a user's identity is fully verified, we then check the name against all sanctions list and watch list, including treasury's OFAC list, DOJ's FBI wanted list, and the UN's consolidated sanction list. If found, the user is rejected and prohibited from trading. We monitor the user's fiat transactions if we detect a deposit coming from or a withdrawal going to a sanctioned bank or other blacklisted source, we block the user's activity. We monitor the user's crypto deposits withdrawals using on chain risk analysis and transaction monitoring tools, such
1667
01:50:15.550 --> 01:50:20.610
as blank surveillance tools. We use the same transaction monitoring tools that government agencies use.
1668
01:50:20.995 --> 01:50:29.735
These tools have databases of known sanctioned addresses, heuristics that determine geographic locations, and machine learning algos that identify suspicious patterns and transfer histories.
1669
01:50:30.040 --> 01:50:33.739
If we detect suspicious activity, we block the user from moving assets.
1670
01:50:34.120 --> 01:50:35.580
Along with the above methods,
1671
01:50:36.760 --> 01:50:39.420
we are in continuous productive dialogue with governments,
1672
01:50:39.795 --> 01:50:43.655
regulators, and law enforcement and update our procedures based on their instruction.
1673
01:50:44.675 --> 01:50:50.630
Crypto exchanges have extremely advanced technology and effective procedures for enforcing AML and sanctions.
1674
01:50:51.090 --> 01:50:58.594
Recent public assertions that crypto is in is an effective means of evading sanctions due to lack of regulation or without factual support.
1675
01:50:58.975 --> 01:51:00.995
And then after he did that, Coinbase,
1676
01:51:02.574 --> 01:51:04.514
also released their own post
1677
01:51:05.380 --> 01:51:05.880
yesterday.
1678
01:51:07.300 --> 01:51:08.520
And in their post,
1679
01:51:09.380 --> 01:51:10.600
they said they had
1680
01:51:10.980 --> 01:51:11.960
blocked 25,000
1681
01:51:12.340 --> 01:51:13.800
addresses that were associated
1682
01:51:14.705 --> 01:51:20.005
with Russians, including some addresses that the government wasn't aware of that they then shared with the government.
1683
01:51:21.585 --> 01:51:23.685
And they said this one thing,
1684
01:51:26.760 --> 01:51:34.034
They have methods for identifying accounts held by sanctioned individuals outside of Coinbase even if we don't have direct access to their personal information.
1685
01:51:35.775 --> 01:51:37.954
I mean, we know Coinbase has their own,
1686
01:51:39.135 --> 01:51:39.635
surveillance,
1687
01:51:41.135 --> 01:51:41.635
platform
1688
01:51:42.710 --> 01:51:44.489
that they also sell to governments.
1689
01:51:45.829 --> 01:51:52.735
Through advanced blockchain analysis, we proactively identified over 1200 additional addresses potentially associated with the sanctioned individual.
1690
01:51:53.115 --> 01:51:58.015
We added it to our internal block list. We shared it with the government to further support sanctions enforcement.
1691
01:51:59.599 --> 01:52:03.219
So it was like a it it definitely turned into a little bit of, like,
1692
01:52:03.760 --> 01:52:05.539
a looking glass moment, you know.
1693
01:52:06.435 --> 01:52:10.135
Yeah. It shows you, first of all, how far these systems have come
1694
01:52:10.435 --> 01:52:12.215
and how automated they are.
1695
01:52:12.995 --> 01:52:14.780
You know, they these aren't people
1696
01:52:15.480 --> 01:52:18.060
individually handling accounts 1 by 1.
1697
01:52:18.440 --> 01:52:19.260
You know, they,
1698
01:52:20.280 --> 01:52:23.340
this chain analysis software is assigning risk scores,
1699
01:52:23.705 --> 01:52:24.605
and it's automatically
1700
01:52:24.985 --> 01:52:27.165
flagging users based on that.
1701
01:52:27.705 --> 01:52:29.885
And it's getting better every day,
1702
01:52:30.345 --> 01:52:31.750
and it's super important
1703
01:52:32.610 --> 01:52:42.455
to understand your adversary. Like, my one of my favorite quotes is know your enemy, know his sword, and that what you just said is very telling, and it shows you, you know, just what we're up against.
1704
01:52:44.995 --> 01:52:47.815
Like, how can someone think that's not an attack on Bitcoin?
1705
01:52:50.599 --> 01:52:52.139
Because they're compliant.
1706
01:52:52.679 --> 01:52:57.579
They're within the system. I mean, that's the only way someone could see it that way if they believe
1707
01:52:58.275 --> 01:52:59.655
in KYC AML.
1708
01:53:00.035 --> 01:53:02.535
What do you think? Get on 0, bro.
1709
01:53:02.915 --> 01:53:05.335
Get on 0. What do you think about this,
1710
01:53:06.970 --> 01:53:09.630
this phenomenon that I've been noticing that it's like,
1711
01:53:11.130 --> 01:53:13.550
I'm not a pussy. Like, I don't care if you know.
1712
01:53:14.615 --> 01:53:17.595
Like, I, you know, come and take it.
1713
01:53:20.055 --> 01:53:24.130
Yeah. You talk that way until someone puts a gun in your face.
1714
01:53:26.110 --> 01:53:26.930
It's fun
1715
01:53:27.470 --> 01:53:30.450
to larp and act like a big dog and
1716
01:53:31.185 --> 01:53:35.125
say, you know, no one's gonna take it from me. You know, I got my guns or whatever.
1717
01:53:35.585 --> 01:53:38.165
But whenever your door actually gets kicked in,
1718
01:53:38.570 --> 01:53:40.510
things go a little bit different than,
1719
01:53:41.130 --> 01:53:46.430
like, what's that famous Mike Tyson quote? Everybody's got a plan till they get punched in the face. Right? Yeah.
1720
01:53:47.655 --> 01:53:54.955
A lot of people are just either they don't live in the US and they don't have to worry about certain things, or they or they don't live in a place where
1721
01:53:55.380 --> 01:53:56.200
they have to worry,
1722
01:53:56.820 --> 01:53:59.640
or they're just naive, and they've never actually been
1723
01:54:00.100 --> 01:54:01.960
in a real situation like that.
1724
01:54:07.575 --> 01:54:09.515
Yeah. I mean, I think it's a lot of naivety.
1725
01:54:10.855 --> 01:54:11.355
Absolutely.
1726
01:54:12.490 --> 01:54:17.470
I've you know, I don't wanna dox myself. And there's a lot of people too. One one time, you know, I
1727
01:54:17.930 --> 01:54:23.855
had a gun put in my face, and that changed my life. You know, it makes you take privacy extremely seriously.
1728
01:54:31.210 --> 01:54:32.989
Ron, do you have anything to add here?
1729
01:54:35.770 --> 01:54:38.909
No. I I think I have said enough. I
1730
01:54:39.505 --> 01:54:43.605
I went on many rants already. Come on. Don't make me do it again.
1731
01:54:46.945 --> 01:54:48.910
Yeah. Go on. But but but,
1732
01:54:50.969 --> 01:54:55.150
kind of a parting thoughts for me, at least on this topic, is that
1733
01:54:56.295 --> 01:54:58.555
given what what you know by now,
1734
01:54:59.495 --> 01:55:00.235
you can
1735
01:55:01.495 --> 01:55:06.170
try to decipher, try to understand, try to get on my
1736
01:55:06.950 --> 01:55:08.170
on my boots
1737
01:55:08.550 --> 01:55:09.030
as to
1738
01:55:10.390 --> 01:55:12.490
so opposed to mass adoption,
1739
01:55:13.615 --> 01:55:14.115
because
1740
01:55:14.575 --> 01:55:16.515
I I have said it, before
1741
01:55:16.895 --> 01:55:18.995
in in other spaces, in other
1742
01:55:19.375 --> 01:55:19.875
chats,
1743
01:55:21.980 --> 01:55:29.200
But I I didn't care if I buy if I bought Bitcoin back then and it was 1,000 per coin.
1744
01:55:30.295 --> 01:55:35.355
I wouldn't care if by the time I got to the other side of the border, it was 66
1745
01:55:35.975 --> 01:55:37.594
k instead of 1 k
1746
01:55:38.390 --> 01:55:41.370
Because at that exact time, at those,
1747
01:55:41.989 --> 01:55:42.890
couple days,
1748
01:55:43.989 --> 01:55:45.370
I I didn't think
1749
01:55:46.295 --> 01:55:48.395
about how many coins I was purchasing
1750
01:55:50.054 --> 01:55:52.955
or or anything else. I I just care
1751
01:55:53.710 --> 01:55:54.210
that
1752
01:55:54.590 --> 01:55:57.650
by the time I flew to my final destination,
1753
01:55:58.350 --> 01:56:00.050
I could take what was mine.
1754
01:56:01.795 --> 01:56:04.135
Be it a 100 k Satoshis
1755
01:56:04.995 --> 01:56:05.495
or
1756
01:56:05.875 --> 01:56:07.735
a 1000 Bitcoins, Fuocoins.
1757
01:56:09.239 --> 01:56:13.340
It's a matter of of protecting your capital, of becoming sovereign.
1758
01:56:14.760 --> 01:56:22.125
It's not a matter of I have however many coins and become as cocky as you can get because you're
1759
01:56:22.505 --> 01:56:23.885
so rich in USC.
1760
01:56:24.980 --> 01:56:25.960
It's more like,
1761
01:56:26.500 --> 01:56:30.360
I want to spend the coins right now to get, I don't know, a lollipop.
1762
01:56:30.660 --> 01:56:34.395
I do it. I want to spend the coins or decides
1763
01:56:34.775 --> 01:56:36.955
to buy a house, I do it.
1764
01:56:37.655 --> 01:56:41.115
It's about making the transaction they don't want you to make.
1765
01:56:41.670 --> 01:56:48.330
And beyond that, make it in a k y c freight free fashion. So it's effectively opting out.
1766
01:56:50.025 --> 01:56:51.965
It just become price agnostic.
1767
01:56:59.500 --> 01:57:04.960
And to to go back to, you know, re you're reading those, sort of tweet threads off as well. You know, the
1768
01:57:05.820 --> 01:57:08.000
the k y c AML info,
1769
01:57:08.915 --> 01:57:09.975
and data collection,
1770
01:57:11.475 --> 01:57:12.695
that I guess is, you know,
1771
01:57:13.395 --> 01:57:16.130
come out of the woodwork in the last week
1772
01:57:16.690 --> 01:57:17.670
because of the,
1773
01:57:18.210 --> 01:57:19.590
sort of global affairs,
1774
01:57:20.290 --> 01:57:21.590
that have been going on.
1775
01:57:22.690 --> 01:57:30.115
These are things that have already been known about in in the privacy space. You know, the the there there are already things that we're very familiar with,
1776
01:57:30.515 --> 01:57:35.175
and know that is going on, but but to have them spell out in, you know, such
1777
01:57:35.940 --> 01:57:38.520
such clear plain English, if you like,
1778
01:57:40.100 --> 01:57:45.320
does sort of hit home as to exactly what you're signing up for when you use one of these services. And
1779
01:57:48.245 --> 01:57:51.925
you sort of do ask yourself the question, well, if if I,
1780
01:57:53.060 --> 01:57:57.160
if I've if I've sort of KYC'd myself, then where do I go from here?
1781
01:57:57.540 --> 01:57:58.040
And,
1782
01:57:59.380 --> 01:58:00.520
you've got a few options,
1783
01:58:02.585 --> 01:58:10.445
but but nothing beats sort of as as I think, you know, you've you've said before, Matt, you know, sell back to the exchange and buy no KYC.
1784
01:58:12.670 --> 01:58:15.090
You know, you can hold on to your KYC Bitcoin,
1785
01:58:16.270 --> 01:58:19.170
and and put it through sort of a Whirlpool coin join,
1786
01:58:19.935 --> 01:58:25.074
But but that doesn't erase the the history that of, you know, where you've purchased it from before.
1787
01:58:26.640 --> 01:58:31.600
So I I don't I don't wanna end on, like, a an a negative note as such, but,
1788
01:58:32.720 --> 01:58:35.040
you know, it it goes back to the,
1789
01:58:35.635 --> 01:58:38.375
know, what you do today, you might regret tomorrow. And,
1790
01:58:38.995 --> 01:58:44.055
you know, you might not be screwing up today, but you could be screwing yourself in the future.
1791
01:58:44.515 --> 01:58:44.755
So
1792
01:58:45.390 --> 01:58:48.610
Well, let's talk about that. Like, how do like, okay. So
1793
01:58:49.710 --> 01:58:53.489
the majority of people listening to this probably, you know, have already KYC'd.
1794
01:58:53.955 --> 01:58:54.855
They have a,
1795
01:58:55.395 --> 01:58:58.535
you know, a decent stash of coin that is KYC'd.
1796
01:59:00.115 --> 01:59:03.815
What are you know, what what can they do to reduce their risk?
1797
01:59:04.340 --> 01:59:08.440
You know, how how do they proceed from here? Is all hope lost?
1798
01:59:10.260 --> 01:59:19.265
There there was a question relating to what brother Ravi was talking about with regards to CoinJoin and KYC, if I may bring it up. I'll
1799
01:59:19.885 --> 01:59:21.185
I'll read it out loud.
1800
01:59:21.730 --> 01:59:25.270
Somebody on Twitch asked, if it if it touched KYC,
1801
01:59:25.650 --> 01:59:31.455
consider it at least somewhat tainted even even after coinjoin, it seems. It's more of comment
1802
01:59:32.075 --> 01:59:35.935
still, just to clarify or to touch on that a little bit briefly.
1803
01:59:37.595 --> 01:59:41.590
K, CoinJoin helps your forward looking privacy, meaning
1804
01:59:42.370 --> 01:59:43.110
you can
1805
01:59:43.489 --> 01:59:46.469
acquire some level of Anonset with your UTXOs
1806
01:59:47.275 --> 01:59:47.775
moving
1807
01:59:48.235 --> 01:59:54.015
forward. But the the bottom line, the problem at hand is not your the anode set of your UTXOs.
1808
01:59:55.790 --> 01:59:57.969
The problem at hand is that your
1809
01:59:58.270 --> 01:59:58.770
identification,
1810
01:59:59.150 --> 02:00:02.610
your selfie, whatever you provided the exchange with,
1811
02:00:04.005 --> 02:00:05.465
is off the blockchain.
1812
02:00:05.845 --> 02:00:08.585
It it does not matter how many times you,
1813
02:00:08.965 --> 02:00:10.425
will pull those UTXOs,
1814
02:00:11.369 --> 02:00:13.389
that record is elsewhere,
1815
02:00:13.690 --> 02:00:16.989
and it it's it's agnostic of what happens on the blockchain.
1816
02:00:18.205 --> 02:00:19.425
So even if you,
1817
02:00:20.045 --> 02:00:22.225
coin doing some KYC or TXOs,
1818
02:00:22.685 --> 02:00:23.505
you're still
1819
02:00:25.590 --> 02:00:26.090
fucked.
1820
02:00:28.389 --> 02:00:29.610
But, yep,
1821
02:00:30.150 --> 02:00:30.469
that's
1822
02:00:31.349 --> 02:00:34.489
So I I mean, I would say, first of all,
1823
02:00:36.535 --> 02:00:38.635
Lion makes a good point in the chat
1824
02:00:39.335 --> 02:00:40.475
that in the future,
1825
02:00:41.255 --> 02:00:43.195
as a circular economy develops,
1826
02:00:44.280 --> 02:00:46.380
it will lessen the pain points,
1827
02:00:47.640 --> 02:00:55.105
to a degree because most people will not be buying Bitcoin. They'll be earning Bitcoin. Most people will not be selling Bitcoin. They'll be spending Bitcoin.
1828
02:00:55.725 --> 02:00:57.665
And then all of a sudden in those situations,
1829
02:00:59.485 --> 02:01:05.450
ideally, merchants are using sovereign setups, whether that's something like BTCPay or SatSale or PayNIMS,
1830
02:01:07.350 --> 02:01:10.490
or just mobile wallets without reusing addresses or,
1831
02:01:11.945 --> 02:01:13.405
like, those centralized
1832
02:01:13.785 --> 02:01:17.405
pain points that are getting regulated and that have all of these
1833
02:01:18.719 --> 02:01:22.260
surveillance measures attached to them become less important.
1834
02:01:23.280 --> 02:01:24.179
In the meantime,
1835
02:01:25.840 --> 02:01:26.900
I would say
1836
02:01:27.825 --> 02:01:29.525
I'm of the belief that
1837
02:01:30.225 --> 02:01:34.165
I I think there is there is a decent argument for selling back,
1838
02:01:34.850 --> 02:01:37.990
at the same exchange you came in with. So, like, you bought in Coinbase,
1839
02:01:38.690 --> 02:01:41.510
you know, maybe you have a coin, you sell the coin back,
1840
02:01:42.585 --> 02:01:55.449
and then you go no KYC from that point forward. And, you know, if someone thinks if someone thinks you own Bitcoin, I sold I sold the Bitcoin there, and, you know, if someone gets those KYC records, they see you bought this much, you sold this much.
1841
02:01:57.350 --> 02:01:58.170
Now that,
1842
02:01:59.005 --> 02:02:01.665
you know, adds another element in terms of,
1843
02:02:03.085 --> 02:02:09.770
you know, you might have a realized gain, then you're reporting that to the tax authorities. You're doing all this additional,
1844
02:02:12.070 --> 02:02:16.090
you you you're increasing your data footprint in a lot of ways in that situation.
1845
02:02:17.284 --> 02:02:18.585
There's no perfect answer.
1846
02:02:19.445 --> 02:02:21.145
If you coin join early, though,
1847
02:02:22.405 --> 02:02:25.545
the sooner you coin join right? So so the way these surveillance
1848
02:02:26.450 --> 02:02:31.910
firms work is it's all a probability analysis game. So, like, I can send Bitcoin to myself all day.
1849
02:02:32.610 --> 02:02:37.945
Just generate a new address, send Bitcoin to myself. You know? Brother Rabbit can send Bitcoin to himself.
1850
02:02:38.804 --> 02:02:45.390
Would the name of their game is to try and figure out when it actually changes hands. So it's not
1851
02:02:45.770 --> 02:02:56.655
me sending Bitcoin to myself, it's me sending Bitcoin to Rod and Will or me sending Bitcoin to Brother Rabbit. And they attach a probability to it, and they have tools that automate all of this, but they attach a probability to it. So
1852
02:02:57.275 --> 02:03:02.325
when you're trying to counteract them, the name of the game is to break their probability analysis, and CoinJoin is a very useful tool for using that.
1853
02:03:10.985 --> 02:03:12.925
They call it stowaway on samurai.
1854
02:03:13.865 --> 02:03:19.719
They also have these non coordinated coin joins called stonewall 2 x. You can also do,
1855
02:03:21.219 --> 02:03:26.199
fake stonewall two x's where instead of a second person, you're doing a coin join with just yourself.
1856
02:03:26.625 --> 02:03:35.500
And on chain, they it's hard to tell whether or not it's a coin join with yourself or whether it's a coin join with another person. You're breaking these probability analysis.
1857
02:03:36.120 --> 02:03:36.620
So
1858
02:03:37.800 --> 02:03:43.385
in that scheme, right, the worst thing you can do is you buy KYC, and you just hold it on an
1859
02:03:44.425 --> 02:03:47.405
exchange. The second worst thing you could do is you buy KYC,
1860
02:03:47.864 --> 02:04:03.375
and then you, like, send it to your ledger or your hardware wallet or whatever, and it just sits there in that same address and never moves because they're just assuming you did exactly what everyone else did, which is you bought KYC, and then you just hold it long term, and you're still holding it.
1861
02:04:04.315 --> 02:04:06.255
There's that middle ground there where
1862
02:04:07.275 --> 02:04:09.935
you you take that KYC coin, and you
1863
02:04:10.260 --> 02:04:13.000
you start using CoinJoin, you start practicing
1864
02:04:13.300 --> 02:04:15.400
privacy best practices going forward.
1865
02:04:16.020 --> 02:04:17.640
And as the years go by,
1866
02:04:18.235 --> 02:04:25.695
there's more and more plausible deniability on whether or not you sell that coin. I mean, there's millions of way like, the boating accident thing is ridiculous
1867
02:04:26.449 --> 02:04:28.469
and irresponsible joke in my opinion.
1868
02:04:28.929 --> 02:04:31.030
No one's gonna fucking believe a boating accident.
1869
02:04:31.730 --> 02:04:32.230
But
1870
02:04:32.770 --> 02:04:36.685
the truth of the matter is is, like, it's really hard to hold on to coin for 5 years.
1871
02:04:37.385 --> 02:04:42.605
Like, you're either spending it, you're losing it, you're getting scammed. There's, like, lots of different things that could happen.
1872
02:04:43.489 --> 02:04:49.110
So I'm of the belief that if you are KYC ed and you're not gonna go back out through the same KYC
1873
02:04:49.410 --> 02:04:49.910
exchange,
1874
02:04:50.615 --> 02:04:54.155
That coin joining sooner rather than later and learning privacy
1875
02:04:54.615 --> 02:04:59.755
best practices sooner rather than later and deleting your KYC account sooner rather than later.
1876
02:05:00.100 --> 02:05:05.400
Like, there's no trust that they're actually gonna delete your data when you delete it. But if you delete it now,
1877
02:05:05.700 --> 02:05:07.240
and then it's 8 years later,
1878
02:05:07.935 --> 02:05:10.515
you know, it's more likely that it's deleted
1879
02:05:11.055 --> 02:05:16.595
than if you don't delete it now. And it's more likely that you have plausible liability if you do do the CoinJoin now.
1880
02:05:17.130 --> 02:05:17.949
So I wouldn't
1881
02:05:18.730 --> 02:05:22.429
that's, like, my positive spin. I know it still doesn't really sound that positive.
1882
02:05:22.889 --> 02:05:32.824
Also, it kinda kinda depends if you're a big fish or a small fish. Right? If they see that you bought that coin, how much of it did you buy, and how much will it be worth in the future?
1883
02:05:33.525 --> 02:05:37.230
And, you know, maybe if you're talking a massive capital gain,
1884
02:05:37.610 --> 02:05:39.949
you just need to take the hit to avoid,
1885
02:05:40.570 --> 02:05:42.670
you know, getting too hot, if you will.
1886
02:05:43.555 --> 02:05:46.935
But if you just if you only played around on KYC
1887
02:05:47.475 --> 02:05:49.175
platforms with small amounts,
1888
02:05:49.635 --> 02:05:51.955
then you're probably fine. I mean, the
1889
02:05:52.970 --> 02:05:54.750
in short, BTC noob,
1890
02:05:55.210 --> 02:06:00.430
what I would take away from this is once you coin join, from there looking forward,
1891
02:06:00.875 --> 02:06:06.094
they don't know whose coin is whose coin. They can't follow that from your original stack.
1892
02:06:06.475 --> 02:06:21.355
But they do know you have acquired that original stack. Right. And that that's the knowledge that you should be concerned about depending on if you're a big fish or a small fish and what your threat model is. They know how much you bought, when you bought it, your withdrawal addresses,
1893
02:06:22.054 --> 02:06:23.514
and when you coin joined.
1894
02:06:24.215 --> 02:06:26.375
Right. So one could speculate that,
1895
02:06:26.840 --> 02:06:31.260
they have software to kinda estimate, you know, what is that coin worth now.
1896
02:06:32.360 --> 02:06:35.980
Is there a possible capital gain that they should be looking out for
1897
02:06:36.385 --> 02:06:40.805
or some kind of you know, maybe they're trying to monitor you for cashing out,
1898
02:06:41.265 --> 02:06:45.525
how you spend it. But as long as you coin join, stick to new KYC,
1899
02:06:45.985 --> 02:06:48.150
you know, you learned your lesson early on,
1900
02:06:48.530 --> 02:06:53.830
then you'll be fine, and you can opt out, escape the system, and enjoy life.
1901
02:06:55.505 --> 02:07:01.284
I think I think it's just draconian. It's just awful. And it happened recently with the elliptic,
1902
02:07:02.304 --> 02:07:07.110
graphs, the the GIFs or the images of of the hack that
1903
02:07:07.730 --> 02:07:08.710
that they assign,
1904
02:07:09.810 --> 02:07:10.870
certain UTXO
1905
02:07:11.330 --> 02:07:12.310
with an identity,
1906
02:07:13.090 --> 02:07:13.590
and
1907
02:07:14.075 --> 02:07:16.255
they can even put a picture of your selfie
1908
02:07:16.635 --> 02:07:18.175
is attached to that UTXO.
1909
02:07:18.715 --> 02:07:20.415
So no matter how many hops,
1910
02:07:21.150 --> 02:07:27.010
your identity is going to be linked for, I don't know how many, hubs in that wallet cluster,
1911
02:07:27.390 --> 02:07:31.425
say, 5 hubs, 6 hubs. So your phase is going to be plastered
1912
02:07:31.885 --> 02:07:32.625
all over
1913
02:07:33.085 --> 02:07:34.705
even if you use it now
1914
02:07:35.085 --> 02:07:37.905
and that merchant receives it and sends it somewhere
1915
02:07:39.369 --> 02:07:40.909
for 5 or 6 transactions,
1916
02:07:41.449 --> 02:07:44.989
it's going to be your face assigned to that specific UTXO.
1917
02:07:45.530 --> 02:07:46.989
So it's like, what?
1918
02:07:50.315 --> 02:07:58.850
I guess what I'm trying to get at is, like, I don't I and I see I see this a lot. So, like, the the meme in in
1919
02:07:59.710 --> 02:08:00.690
the the common
1920
02:08:00.990 --> 02:08:02.530
meme in, like, privacy,
1921
02:08:02.990 --> 02:08:04.690
not just Bitcoin privacy,
1922
02:08:05.825 --> 02:08:06.325
is
1923
02:08:06.945 --> 02:08:08.485
the average person saying,
1924
02:08:09.905 --> 02:08:15.364
I do I have I have nothing to hide, so I'm not worried. I do nothing wrong, so I have nothing to hide.
1925
02:08:16.420 --> 02:08:18.120
But that's not really the common
1926
02:08:18.900 --> 02:08:26.725
holdup that I've noticed. The common holdup that I've noticed is I'm so fucked that it's worthless for me to try and improve my situation.
1927
02:08:27.665 --> 02:08:28.485
And I think
1928
02:08:29.425 --> 02:08:34.390
it's important for people to realize that that's not the case. You can always improve yourself.
1929
02:08:35.010 --> 02:08:41.350
Now is it gonna be perfect? No. But you can you can improve yourself, and you can make progress, and you should do it
1930
02:08:41.844 --> 02:08:42.505
for yourself.
1931
02:08:43.204 --> 02:08:48.425
And at scale, if everyone is trying to improve themselves, it helps everyone together.
1932
02:08:49.710 --> 02:08:51.969
And there's no such thing as perfect privacy.
1933
02:08:52.350 --> 02:08:56.050
If you think you're ever gonna achieve that, don't even try it.
1934
02:08:56.750 --> 02:08:59.785
Just find what works for you. And even taking
1935
02:09:00.165 --> 02:09:01.465
a few small steps,
1936
02:09:01.765 --> 02:09:06.105
you know, once a month or try out a new piece of software here and there,
1937
02:09:06.885 --> 02:09:08.480
it all adds up. And
1938
02:09:09.980 --> 02:09:11.680
and people who say I'm screwed,
1939
02:09:12.140 --> 02:09:14.560
like, fuck it. Just be a nihilist.
1940
02:09:15.325 --> 02:09:15.985
You know,
1941
02:09:16.364 --> 02:09:21.185
that's that's foolish. There are solutions. There are tools, and it's getting made easier
1942
02:09:21.565 --> 02:09:24.465
every day. It's just a matter of do you care
1943
02:09:24.780 --> 02:09:25.440
or not?
1944
02:09:25.820 --> 02:09:32.060
Or even have you been made to care yet? Right? Because in the west, where we're spoiled with modern banking and
1945
02:09:32.735 --> 02:09:36.014
or we don't have as much conflict going on with our,
1946
02:09:36.414 --> 02:09:38.114
like, internally in our nation,
1947
02:09:39.934 --> 02:09:46.469
that people haven't been awoken yet. But, you know, other people are made to care about this stuff very quickly.
1948
02:09:46.850 --> 02:09:52.315
And like we've talked about on the show already, it's better to get into this stuff early than it is,
1949
02:09:52.855 --> 02:09:53.594
too late.
1950
02:09:54.054 --> 02:10:04.640
And it's not a doom and gloom thing. It's really just a matter of do you wanna be in control of your money and your data, or do you want someone else to be in control of that? It's really that simple.
1951
02:10:08.885 --> 02:10:09.625
Well said.
1952
02:10:10.725 --> 02:10:11.465
So, guys,
1953
02:10:12.565 --> 02:10:14.265
we're a little over 2 hours.
1954
02:10:15.045 --> 02:10:18.079
I I really appreciate your time. I think this has been a great conversation.
1955
02:10:19.260 --> 02:10:21.920
I appreciate you all. I like to end the show
1956
02:10:22.985 --> 02:10:23.804
with some final thoughts.
1957
02:10:26.025 --> 02:10:28.525
So with that said, final thoughts, brother Rabbit.
1958
02:10:31.380 --> 02:10:36.440
I think, you know, buy where you can, buy no KYC Bitcoin.
1959
02:10:38.745 --> 02:10:42.125
What you said earlier, Matt, about, you know, coin joining as early as possible,
1960
02:10:43.385 --> 02:10:46.925
just to, you know, provide yourself with some forward looking privacy.
1961
02:10:48.800 --> 02:10:55.515
If you've got any questions, you're you're welcome to to jump in sort of the the Telegram chat, which is where where you'll find a a lot of people,
1962
02:10:55.975 --> 02:10:57.195
in the sort of samurai
1963
02:10:57.574 --> 02:10:58.795
and Ronin Dojo,
1964
02:10:59.335 --> 02:10:59.835
chats
1965
02:11:00.535 --> 02:11:02.074
that that care about their privacy.
1966
02:11:02.490 --> 02:11:05.610
Whether, you know, whether it be interacting on Bitcoin or,
1967
02:11:06.410 --> 02:11:09.710
as you know, often a lot of people in there that ask about setting up,
1968
02:11:10.305 --> 02:11:11.125
your routers
1969
02:11:11.585 --> 02:11:15.365
and, you know, what phones to use or what apps to use.
1970
02:11:16.145 --> 02:11:17.425
The community there is,
1971
02:11:17.985 --> 02:11:19.270
sort of second to none.
1972
02:11:20.230 --> 02:11:28.410
So if if someone can't can't answer a question, they can very often not, direct you to a guide or, another Telegram group
1973
02:11:28.875 --> 02:11:31.135
if you're if you're one of those that's got a 1,000,
1974
02:11:31.595 --> 02:11:33.615
1,000 Telegram groups that you're in.
1975
02:11:35.195 --> 02:11:39.659
But, you know, just just do the, you know, do the best you can and and follow best practices.
1976
02:11:41.159 --> 02:11:43.179
You know, it's all well sort of,
1977
02:11:44.185 --> 02:11:50.204
shouting about best practices, but actually putting them into place and taking the steps to better your own privacy.
1978
02:11:51.304 --> 02:12:00.830
And it feels good, really. You know? Once you've once you've taken a few steps, even if it's just to sort of get off Google or, start using your own node,
1979
02:12:02.555 --> 02:12:04.415
You know, every little step counts,
1980
02:12:05.515 --> 02:12:06.815
and it gets easier.
1981
02:12:07.675 --> 02:12:09.295
Awesome. Thank you, brother Rabbit.
1982
02:12:09.675 --> 02:12:11.215
Guerra, final thoughts.
1983
02:12:12.200 --> 02:12:12.700
Yeah.
1984
02:12:13.720 --> 02:12:14.700
Mainly just
1985
02:12:15.240 --> 02:12:18.060
run a node, make every spin a coin join,
1986
02:12:18.895 --> 02:12:21.475
engrave your seeds and steal, do your own custody.
1987
02:12:22.655 --> 02:12:27.074
All you freaks are in the right spot. You know, keep listening to Matt. And
1988
02:12:27.920 --> 02:12:31.139
in a few simple steps, I think everybody can get off of Google,
1989
02:12:31.679 --> 02:12:33.300
take control of their own funds,
1990
02:12:33.760 --> 02:12:37.219
and really not need anybody. Be totally self sufficient
1991
02:12:38.054 --> 02:12:40.715
and cut out all the 3rd party service,
1992
02:12:41.655 --> 02:12:43.594
surveillance bullshit from their lives.
1993
02:12:44.135 --> 02:12:48.430
And like you guys are saying, it's one step at a time. It doesn't happen overnight.
1994
02:12:48.890 --> 02:12:52.270
But man, it feels good when you finally delete that Gmail,
1995
02:12:52.810 --> 02:12:54.270
delete that Google account.
1996
02:12:55.665 --> 02:12:58.324
It it goes from hopeless to hopeful
1997
02:12:58.705 --> 02:12:59.764
and very quickly.
1998
02:13:00.385 --> 02:13:03.284
Thanks, Guarra. Look forward to kicking with you in Miami.
1999
02:13:04.020 --> 02:13:06.120
I mean, we didn't talk about it earlier, but,
2000
02:13:07.060 --> 02:13:13.080
me and Guero were kicking out, like, 2 in the morning at Bitblock, boom, and that was a great fucking conversation that none of you will ever hear.
2001
02:13:14.025 --> 02:13:15.244
Yeah, man. I'm excited.
2002
02:13:16.505 --> 02:13:17.804
Rod, and final thoughts.
2003
02:13:19.304 --> 02:13:20.425
Well, other than
2004
02:13:20.830 --> 02:13:24.050
thanks for having me on. Thanks for the time and space.
2005
02:13:25.230 --> 02:13:30.050
Personally, I could I could speak for myself here. I I revived. I resurrected
2006
02:13:30.875 --> 02:13:31.855
yearly dispatch.
2007
02:13:33.035 --> 02:13:38.015
It was just laid back, open mic. I had some alcohol. I I spoke my mind.
2008
02:13:38.475 --> 02:13:39.295
No filters.
2009
02:13:40.300 --> 02:13:42.320
I appreciate it all. And
2010
02:13:42.940 --> 02:13:44.880
more more of, on topic,
2011
02:13:45.660 --> 02:13:49.215
privacy at the end of the day, it's gray. It's not black and white.
2012
02:13:49.775 --> 02:13:52.835
You don't go from 0 to a100 so quickly.
2013
02:13:53.775 --> 02:13:59.420
Just keep iterating. Keep doing your own research. Keep tinkering. That's the most important thing.
2014
02:13:59.800 --> 02:14:03.340
And keep asking questions whenever it's it feels like it's required.
2015
02:14:04.135 --> 02:14:04.635
Cheers.
2016
02:14:05.735 --> 02:14:08.074
Cheers. Thank you, Ron, and we'll appreciate you.
2017
02:14:08.855 --> 02:14:10.875
I'm gonna see you in Miami as well. Right?
2018
02:14:11.780 --> 02:14:23.045
I hope so. I'm still on the fence. I don't know. I I'll I'll think about it. Okay. Well, let me know. Hopefully, we'll kick it. If not, then we'll, I'm sure we'll kick it again in person soon. For sure. For sure.
2019
02:14:24.225 --> 02:14:26.165
Just huge shout out to our guests,
2020
02:14:27.425 --> 02:14:28.325
Brother Rabbit,
2021
02:14:28.710 --> 02:14:29.530
Guero Maneda,
2022
02:14:29.989 --> 02:14:32.090
Rod and Will. Follow them on Twitter.
2023
02:14:33.429 --> 02:14:39.135
Ronan Dojo note. T. Me / Ronan Dojo note is their chat. Ronan Dojo dot io is their website.
2024
02:14:40.315 --> 02:14:48.015
I appreciate all these guys. And huge huge shout out to all the freaks who come back week after week to dispatch, especially those in our live chat.
2025
02:14:48.600 --> 02:14:50.300
You guys make this show unique,
2026
02:14:51.560 --> 02:14:52.460
by participating.
2027
02:14:53.240 --> 02:14:53.900
It is,
2028
02:14:55.435 --> 02:14:56.315
you know, this is,
2029
02:14:56.875 --> 02:14:58.415
it was dispatch 58.
2030
02:14:59.435 --> 02:15:02.235
Like, one of the reasons I started this show is because I just
2031
02:15:03.630 --> 02:15:08.850
I felt like there was not enough conversation about important topics, and there was not enough focus on
2032
02:15:09.230 --> 02:15:11.489
all the great names that we have
2033
02:15:12.055 --> 02:15:17.595
in the space. A lot of people like video content, and that's one of the reasons why dispatch is audio only. So it's
2034
02:15:18.295 --> 02:15:19.915
a privacy friendly
2035
02:15:21.060 --> 02:15:27.160
playground for good thoughts. But at the end of the day, like, let's be honest. I mean, I just mentioned kicking it with Guero and Roden.
2036
02:15:28.485 --> 02:15:29.385
You know, consider
2037
02:15:30.165 --> 02:15:32.985
local meet ups, consider in person conversations,
2038
02:15:33.764 --> 02:15:35.465
off the record, not recorded.
2039
02:15:37.290 --> 02:15:39.390
Those are real real value lies,
2040
02:15:41.210 --> 02:15:41.610
and,
2041
02:15:42.969 --> 02:15:46.350
just keep on trucking and keep on improving. It's all about personal responsibility.
2042
02:15:47.505 --> 02:15:48.885
Cheers, guys. Thank you.
2043
02:16:47.300 --> 02:16:48.120
Runs in
2044
02:16:48.660 --> 02:16:51.560
your ways, and you'll have to do
2045
02:18:17.511 --> 02:18:18.811
I'll tell you what it means.
2046
02:19:52.230 --> 02:19:53.131
Some cosmic
2047
02:20:32.630 --> 02:20:33.689
Love you, freaks.
2048
02:20:34.229 --> 02:20:37.290
I hope you found that conversation as enjoyable as I did.
2049
02:20:37.715 --> 02:20:40.375
I'll see you for a rabbit hole recap on Thursday
2050
02:20:42.354 --> 02:20:43.975
and dispatch on Tuesday.
2051
02:20:45.520 --> 02:20:48.500
I'm having rock star dev on for dispatch on Tuesday.
2052
02:20:48.880 --> 02:20:52.820
And we're gonna talk about privacy because what else do we fucking talk about on this show?
2053
02:20:54.895 --> 02:20:55.955
Also, I think
2054
02:20:56.495 --> 02:20:59.075
probably going to do an in person dispatch,
2055
02:21:01.056 --> 02:21:06.819
before the conference in Miami, the Tuesday before the conference in Miami. So stay tuned for details on that.
2056
02:21:08.000 --> 02:21:10.420
Trying to line up a venue, it should be pretty good.
2057
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And then, of course, you know, the open source stage is basically gonna be dispatched for the next 3 days after that.
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Love you all. Stay humble, StackSats.
NOTE
Transcription provided by Podhome.fm
Created: 3/17/2024 4:28:39 PM
Duration: 8480.235
Channels: 1
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may not be ready to shake the markets and say we're gonna do this pretty steadfast,
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with all of these rate hikes coming through. I didn't get the sense listening to him that they are going to go that much slower. I it it
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to me kind of reading through and listening
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to hours of that testimony yesterday,
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it sounded to me like, yeah,
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He he knows that this is an issue. He knows that they need to be moving on this, and he's not gonna say anything to shake the markets up right now. But that was just my interpretation. How about how about yours? Well, well, certainly, we saw when the 2 year rate went up 18 basis point when he opened up the fact that we're gonna have to go faster,
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wrong
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over the last year. I mean, all this temporary inflation,
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look at their projections for inflation that they did last year,
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so way below,
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what actually happened all the way to December.
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You know, and and listen. Jay Powell is a very, very good man. He's a good communicator,
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but but the Fed has been very wrong. And and they're gonna have to to catch up. And they're gonna have to and and really have to admit,
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bite we gotta bite the bullet here. We gotta defend the dollar
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here.
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Is it that you can do 25% of points? Over.
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We gotta defend the we gotta defend the dollar.
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Happy Bitcoin Tuesday, freaks. It's your boy Odell here for Citadel dispatch 58.
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Citadel dispatch is an interactive live show about Bitcoin distributed systems privacy and open source software.
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As always, I'd like to thank
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all the freaks who continue to support this show. Dispatch is a 100% audience funded without ads or sponsors,
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purely focused on actionable Bitcoin discussion.
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Easiest way to support the show is through podcasting 2 point o apps. My two favorite are Breezewallet
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and Fountain Podcasts.
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They work like traditional podcast apps,
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except you load them up with Sats.
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So you load them up with Sats, search still dispatch, click the subscribe button, then you basically pick
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how many sats per minute you think,
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dispatch is worth, and then as you're listening, it automatically will stream stats directly to my note.
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You can also support the show using,
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my bit 47 pay NIM, which is Odell.
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That's linked at sill dispatch.com
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as well as my BTCPay
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instance that allows you, to support the show,
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via Onchain or Lightning,
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all Bitcoin.
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Dispatch is broadcast on Twitch,
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Twitter, and Bitcoin TV.com.
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All archives are at Bitcoin TV.com
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after the fact.
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The Twitch is twitch.tv/dispatch.
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I am no longer broadcasting through YouTube
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because they can go fuck themselves.
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So with all that said,
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this is a conversation that I'm looking forward to greatly.
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It might not be with necessarily
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the most well known names,
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but they've all become friends,
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over time.
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I like to think, that they're freaks and they listen to the show as well.
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And they just have a lot of very interesting opinions,
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and
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they do a lot of work in
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in terms of education and and and building in the space. So I'm very excited for this conversation. I think we're gonna have,
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it's gonna be unique. It's gonna be
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maybe a little bit disjointed, maybe a little bit organic in proper dispatch fashion,
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But,
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it's gonna be a fun one, and hopefully, you guys find it enjoyable and helpful.
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So with all that said,
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our first guest is Guera Moneta.
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Guera, what's up?
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And we have Brother Rabbit. What's up, Brother Rabbit?
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Good to be here.
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Happy to be here.
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Thank you.
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Fuck, yes.
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So brother brother Rabbit and Guero Manera are,
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involved in the Ronin Dojo project, the Ronin Dojo full known project.
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I they recently came out, with a prebuilt version of their node. It's a free open source software, so you can actually run it all yourself on your own hardware,
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but they also now have a pre built version. I have it right behind me.
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You can't see that because this is not a
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camera enabled show, but it is there.
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So I figure we'll start the conversation with that, and then we'll see kind of where it takes us.
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So with all that said,
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Gwer or Brother Rabbit, you wanna start off with why someone should be interested in the Ronin Dojo project in the first place?
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opening the beer.
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Everyone's drinking today.
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like Matt was saying, we are a privacy focused
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Bitcoin full node implementation,
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and we're trying to make,
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running a Bitcoin full node that enables your privacy as easy as possible.
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We're hoping that we could get all the way to a plug and play experience that's smooth, where anyone can run a node.
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But that's not all we're focused on.
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We're we're a hardware and software company, so we're constantly building new software.
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We have new hardware products that are coming, like steel backup,
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plates, and
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we're we're gonna offer services like premium support
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to help people on the long journey to learning about privacy.
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So really, in short, Ronin Dojo as a company is your one stop shop for Bitcoin privacy
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and getting started using Bitcoin like it's cash.
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Yeah. I mean, I
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my package had the metal backups in it as well. Is that is that normal? Or That was part of the,
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I wasn't really sold on it at first, but I I kinda dig it now.
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Self custody is super important along with privacy.
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So,
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whether you wanna use, like, a sticker you can peel off and be a little more secret, or if you want to use, like, an engraved one where those lines are, you know, acid etched.
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Really, it's just about, you know, what are you comfortable with? What's your threat model?
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You know, is somebody gonna find that plate or not, and you can kinda, you know, adjust your strategy accordingly.
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Most,
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Bitcoin wallets
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have,
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a seed backup.
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Your secret words, they're either 12 or 24 words.
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You can obvious you should never put that on a
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online computer.
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You shouldn't save that in your Apple notes. You shouldn't save that on your in your Google Drive.
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You should keep it offline.
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That means you could either write it on a piece of paper, but paper obviously
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can get damaged by water or fire. So what a lot of people do is they will stamp it into steel.
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Most steel backups,
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as Guero said, have these, like,
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laser etched lines,
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indicating, you know, which word you are engraving.
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With with Ronin Dojo's backup,
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it's just a blank piece of steel.
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So when you're done with it, it and and you put, like, this this sticker on top of it that has the guidelines, so then you use a punch. You use this, like, hole punch to to punch the dots in the steel. And when you remove the sticker, it just looks like a like a piece of steel with, like, braille in it or something.
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I guess some people might still know what they're looking for there, but it just adds, like, another level of
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plausible deniability if someone just, like, comes across it. But you should regardless, you should, you know, keep it physically secure where, like, no one can get to it,
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at least easily.
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But that is kind of, like, a secondary thing. I mean, the main thing here is the node,
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and I know you guys have been working really hard on it.
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You know, what makes this node different? What makes this you know, there's a bunch of people who have a bunch of different options.
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I had a sale of dispatch where we had a bunch of different node teams on, 247 node teams,
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like Woah and and Zelco from your team were there representing Ronan Dojo.
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So if people want, like,
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if if if people wanna see, like, a comparison between the other projects, they can go and check out that episode.
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But
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Yeah. Yeah. So we have a strong focus on Samurais Wallet, of course. So, you know, I can go ahead and say if you want Bitcoin privacy and you wanna use samurai wallet,
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you know, we're the best node project in the space for it as far as uptime goes, as far as stability,
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as far as customer support.
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Most of the other nodes really are just stuffing a lot of apps in there
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and having stability issues.
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And, you know, if you want help with Samurais Wallet, there's no one around to help you out, or some of them haven't even written guides or wikis on how to do it either.
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So just starting there as a samurai user, it's a very
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advantageous setup.
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On top of that, you know, we have
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a Whirlpool built in. It's deployed right whenever you set up the node
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so you can mix 247.
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You don't need to keep your samurai
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app open to do whirlpool.
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You know, you can remotely access it anywhere in the world over tour.
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We don't, you know, cop out and
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have any kind of, like,
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any security holes, anything that could be considered and insecure, like leaving the firewall open,
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like leaving the SSH port open,
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we don't let you access it in ways that, could damage your privacy.
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Every single step, you know, your privacy is taken into account. And everywhere we can, we, you know, run things through Tor.
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Even if Tor is a little bit slower,
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sometimes it's the best option if you're remote.
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On top of that, we have really high quality hardware.
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I believe we're one of the only nodes using m.2
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and BME drives.
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We got great,
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customer support as far as hardware goes. You know, we'll mail you out a replacement if there's an issue.
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Usually, we can have stuff arrive within 2 to 3 days in the states.
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And, yeah, that that's a good starting point. Brother Rabbit, you got any more?
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that this is all by default, isn't it? So,
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those that would have received a Tanto, the lucky ones that, were in the US,
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The idea behind the Tanto is sort of a a plug and play node. So
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those,
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to date that are familiar with Ronan Dojo
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will be familiar with flashing like a a micro SD card, getting their hardware, you know, ordering their hardware off off the Internet,
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flashing the micro SD,
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and then having to go straight into the command line
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and,
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initiate,
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the man the manjaro setup.
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So with with the the tanto in particular,
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the idea of of about,
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you know, being a plug and play node is that, you know, it arrives in the post,
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and you simply just plug it into the ethernet cable,
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plug an ethernet cable into it, and a and a power supply.
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And, within 10 minutes,
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the lights on the node should turn on, and, the initialization sequence starts.
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And, you know, you're you're up and running within
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within a matter of minutes. Now for for those that are a little bit more sort of, privacy conscious aware or, like to verify the images themselves, you know, you don't have to the the node does come with a pre flashed,
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micro SD card, but, if you want, you can open up the bottom after receiving it and flash the image yourself,
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verifying it first, of course,
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and then plugging in the power supply and Ethernet cable.
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So, yeah, like I said, within about 10 minutes,
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you can go to your local browser,
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of which,
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Pavel,
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who, I think that you've had on have you had on, had Pavel on dispatch? I have not had Pavel on yet.
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Oh, well, he's a he's a UI wiz, that's for sure.
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And he was fucking gorgeous.
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It's nice, isn't it? So within a matter of minutes, you know, you can get into your UI and you've got a a dashboard that says,
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you know, what the IBD is on, where the indexer is at, and then you can pay your your your samurai wallet.
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So it's it's just sort of trying to get to a,
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a place where, you know, running a node is is a lot easier for the user because,
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you know, if you're
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these things can be a bit a bit sort of a bit technical for for those that that are told to that they should run a node, but they don't quite understand or feel like they've got the ability to do so.
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And to expand on that, I just shared
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a a tweet in the chat. I'll share it again.
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It's all about,
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just shared it right there.
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It's all about making this easier. Like, in that tweet,
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I listed 5 steps.
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And, really, it should be that simple. You should be able to flash the phone or buy a phone that has Kallax on it. You should be able to plug the note in and it's set up. Just download the wallet, engrave your piece of steel, and you're go. You know, you got the Freedom phone. You've got the Freedom money. You're connected to your own node.
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And it really should be that simple to get off of 0 and get started and, you know, be set up within a day or 2.
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things to note here. First of all,
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why would someone use your their own node
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to use the Bitcoin network?
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You connect to the Bitcoin network through a node. If you don't use your own node, you're using someone else's node.
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You're trusting that person or entity that's running the node with your privacy and with verification.
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If that node provider is,
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pressured or compromised,
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data on you and your Bitcoin transactions,
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can also be compromised, so it's important to use your own node.
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You guys make it extremely easy in that respect.
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It's as simple as you just plug this thing in,
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you wait for it to sync,
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and then a QR code shows on on the web browser screen,
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00:16:24.030 --> 00:16:28.510
and you just scan that QR code with Samura Wallet, and it automatically connects,
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to your own node through Tor. So I really think that
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that QR code connection mechanism
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is,
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vastly underrated. It's a fantastic way of
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simplifying the UX in terms of using your own node.
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And then the other thing you guys did mention is, I mean,
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the Tanto or the Tanto,
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like, the actual hardware case is fucking fire,
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or I guess the opposite of fire. It's it's, you know, a single block of aluminum, basically, so it acts as a heat sink. So it's fanless
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and just feels really good in the hand. I don't know how often people are actually holding their note in their hand,
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Because you know how people get about their hardware. They want it they want it sleek, and they want it sexy.
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00:17:21.495 --> 00:17:22.795
Otherwise, it just feels
247
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cheap.
248
00:17:25.335 --> 00:17:34.140
249
00:17:34.600 --> 00:17:36.140
wipe out every now and again.
250
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But, you know, with the with the tanto, it's not only well, I'll tell you this.
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00:17:42.935 --> 00:17:46.955
The first thing q and a did when he got his tanto was put it on the kitchen scales,
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00:17:47.650 --> 00:17:53.510
because it is quite weighty, isn't it, Matt, when you when you sort of hold it? But the the the aluminium
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00:17:53.810 --> 00:17:56.150
case acts as like a passive heat sink, so,
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you know, I'm just looking at my Ronin Dojo,
255
00:18:00.615 --> 00:18:07.280
UI at the moment, and mine's running at 38 degrees, you know, without a fan, and it's sort of warm to the touch.
256
00:18:08.060 --> 00:18:12.400
So the whole the whole unit acts as like a a passive power is a passive heat sink,
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pulling the heat away.
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So it is it is a beautiful piece of art, really.
259
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260
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261
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I have,
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00:18:26.850 --> 00:18:28.630
I actually won some
263
00:18:29.090 --> 00:18:35.985
contest, something with Bitcoin enemies, and I won the the Gons and Bitcoin treated printed case.
264
00:18:36.684 --> 00:18:38.225
So I I
265
00:18:38.530 --> 00:18:45.990
I practically do have a Tanto, but it's not in that Tanto case. It's in another case. But, yes, I do have a running w.
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And a little bit a little bit on top of what you all have said,
267
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speaking from experience,
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00:18:53.740 --> 00:18:58.000
I appreciate that Samurai does provide users with their own
269
00:18:58.300 --> 00:19:01.120
node, and it's easy just to get it started,
270
00:19:01.660 --> 00:19:02.400
on Samurai
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even if the user does not run their own full node.
272
00:19:06.715 --> 00:19:14.000
But ever since I started using running Dojo both on the Virgin wallet and the preexisting wallet.
273
00:19:14.700 --> 00:19:16.399
The connection is way faster.
274
00:19:18.059 --> 00:19:20.320
In terms of speed, I I
275
00:19:20.855 --> 00:19:22.635
do notice the the change.
276
00:19:23.255 --> 00:19:25.995
So it's it's great. Not only you're autonomous,
277
00:19:26.375 --> 00:19:29.195
but your your speed handling transactions
278
00:19:29.495 --> 00:19:30.315
and fetching,
279
00:19:31.559 --> 00:19:32.539
transaction history
280
00:19:33.160 --> 00:19:34.380
increases a lot.
281
00:19:37.775 --> 00:19:44.355
282
00:19:44.895 --> 00:19:51.230
but, you know, we have the ability to, change the indexer. In fact, the tantos come,
283
00:19:52.190 --> 00:19:55.090
with, Electrum Rust Server as the default.
284
00:19:56.115 --> 00:19:58.055
And, you know, you can connect connect
285
00:19:58.435 --> 00:20:01.875
other other wallets to it, including, you know, a Sparrow wallet. I've been,
286
00:20:02.195 --> 00:20:04.535
playing with that for the last sort of couple of months
287
00:20:05.009 --> 00:20:06.629
since, Craig introduced,
288
00:20:06.929 --> 00:20:09.190
Whirlpool back in September last year.
289
00:20:09.730 --> 00:20:14.335
So, you know, it it it it gives the ability to to connect to other wallets,
290
00:20:14.715 --> 00:20:18.575
but still have a sort of stable node stable node backing it.
291
00:20:19.195 --> 00:20:20.335
292
00:20:21.560 --> 00:20:25.580
you can very easily use it with other nodes other,
293
00:20:26.280 --> 00:20:31.025
pieces of software that are on chain based. Most of them use the Electrum standard.
294
00:20:32.685 --> 00:20:44.190
With something like Sparrow, it's as simple as just pasting the Electris on onion address directly into Sparrow, and then it'll use your own node going forward. Sparrow's a desktop wallet. Highly recommend. Fantastic.
295
00:20:46.365 --> 00:20:50.305
As as for, you know, a lot of freaks might be thinking about lightning.
296
00:20:51.245 --> 00:20:53.505
They might be thinking about some of the
297
00:20:54.830 --> 00:20:58.049
other non necessarily Bitcoin specific things that
298
00:20:58.350 --> 00:20:59.330
Umbrel and,
299
00:20:59.870 --> 00:21:00.370
Start9,
300
00:21:01.684 --> 00:21:08.985
have built into their packages or even something like maybe Raspberry Blitz that has a lot of other Bitcoin specific stuff.
301
00:21:09.529 --> 00:21:10.590
Would you guys agree
302
00:21:10.970 --> 00:21:12.750
that it kinda makes sense
303
00:21:13.529 --> 00:21:15.950
if if if a user is using samurai,
304
00:21:17.115 --> 00:21:18.895
they're using the samurai stack
305
00:21:19.195 --> 00:21:28.870
to have a Ronin Dojo, use that dedicated for the samurai stack. And And then if you wanna run other things, you know, then you have a separate box that's running the other things.
306
00:21:29.570 --> 00:21:30.070
307
00:21:30.664 --> 00:21:33.565
From a security perspective, absolutely.
308
00:21:34.424 --> 00:21:36.605
Stuffing all those apps on one box
309
00:21:37.145 --> 00:21:37.645
is
310
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even if that you claim that you're using Docker containers
311
00:21:42.230 --> 00:21:44.490
to separate them, there's still
312
00:21:46.095 --> 00:21:50.514
exploits found all the time for crazy stuff, like privilege escalation
313
00:21:50.815 --> 00:21:52.595
and arbitrary code execution
314
00:21:53.134 --> 00:21:54.195
between containers,
315
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and it it's just too risky.
316
00:21:57.559 --> 00:22:00.460
And, you know, I'll go ahead and say there's a reason why,
317
00:22:01.240 --> 00:22:02.220
roll on their
318
00:22:02.785 --> 00:22:09.205
read me. It says it's not a 100% secure, and you shouldn't put more funds on there than you're willing to lose.
319
00:22:09.890 --> 00:22:12.150
And I believe that warning is still on their
320
00:22:12.450 --> 00:22:13.430
GitHub today,
321
00:22:13.810 --> 00:22:16.550
and that's the proper thing to do. Anytime you're introducing
322
00:22:18.554 --> 00:22:20.335
more attack vectors like that,
323
00:22:20.955 --> 00:22:22.014
you need to be careful.
324
00:22:22.634 --> 00:22:24.894
So if you're playing around and experimenting,
325
00:22:25.595 --> 00:22:29.200
yeah, sure stuff all your apps on one box. But if it's
326
00:22:29.580 --> 00:22:30.480
your livelihood
327
00:22:30.860 --> 00:22:34.160
and your everything that involves your financial data,
328
00:22:34.540 --> 00:22:36.080
that should really be isolated
329
00:22:36.460 --> 00:22:37.520
on one box.
330
00:22:40.895 --> 00:22:52.950
331
00:22:54.289 --> 00:22:56.795
332
00:22:57.575 --> 00:22:58.075
And
333
00:22:58.935 --> 00:23:02.075
we know whenever you're stuffing all those apps in there, stability
334
00:23:02.540 --> 00:23:08.960
goes out the window very quick, or at least it takes a while to dial that in and have a good user experience.
335
00:23:10.534 --> 00:23:13.515
336
00:23:13.975 --> 00:23:15.755
talking to users here and there.
337
00:23:16.215 --> 00:23:18.409
And, you know, when when,
338
00:23:18.789 --> 00:23:22.010
unfortunately, when when you see maybe, like, another node implementation,
339
00:23:23.350 --> 00:23:28.255
that that that has that has the ability to back your samurai wallet to the node,
340
00:23:28.875 --> 00:23:30.495
when they often fall into issues,
341
00:23:31.274 --> 00:23:31.774
because,
342
00:23:32.235 --> 00:23:37.490
those other node projects support so many of apps as well. Now they're not as focused on,
343
00:23:37.950 --> 00:23:40.290
sort of on chain privacy or specifically
344
00:23:41.070 --> 00:23:43.075
supporting Dojo or samurai wallet.
345
00:23:44.274 --> 00:23:47.495
So, you know, it becomes very difficult to troubleshoot those users,
346
00:23:48.034 --> 00:23:49.894
who often haven't done anything wrong.
347
00:23:50.240 --> 00:23:54.340
They've just been, you know, operating their node as it's meant to be operated. So
348
00:23:54.640 --> 00:23:58.160
I think, you know, what Ronin Dojo prides itself on is,
349
00:23:58.559 --> 00:24:04.355
maintaining, you know, high up time for for when you need it the most. And, you know, when you when you go to push a transaction,
350
00:24:05.535 --> 00:24:09.460
you know, you want it to work as silly as it sounds or when you want to use Whirlpool,
351
00:24:10.240 --> 00:24:13.380
and, you know, leave your SAPS mixing 247
352
00:24:14.080 --> 00:24:14.899
on your node.
353
00:24:15.935 --> 00:24:18.515
You know, you want it to work and be reliable. So,
354
00:24:19.375 --> 00:24:20.515
you know, supporting
355
00:24:20.895 --> 00:24:21.795
loads of other,
356
00:24:22.255 --> 00:24:23.475
apps, although,
357
00:24:23.890 --> 00:24:26.390
you know, it's nice to play around and tinker,
358
00:24:26.770 --> 00:24:27.750
for some users,
359
00:24:28.929 --> 00:24:31.350
you know, you can often fall into pitfalls with troubleshooting.
360
00:24:31.904 --> 00:24:32.804
361
00:24:34.225 --> 00:24:36.644
in this case, when it comes to CoinJoin,
362
00:24:36.945 --> 00:24:39.924
I mean, the cool part about Whirlpool's CoinJoin implementation,
363
00:24:40.250 --> 00:24:43.470
there's multiple different CoinJoin implementations. CoinJoin is
364
00:24:43.770 --> 00:24:48.510
I mean, I think most of the freaks at this point know what CoinJoin is, but it's a collaborative transaction,
365
00:24:49.685 --> 00:24:55.705
where you and multiple other people are sending Bitcoin transactions at the same time to improve your privacy.
366
00:24:57.420 --> 00:24:59.200
Whirlpool's CoinJoin implementation
367
00:25:00.300 --> 00:25:01.600
has a flat fee,
368
00:25:01.900 --> 00:25:12.525
and then after that, you can remix for free. So you keep joining coin join rounds. And as a result, to take full advantage of it, you really want Whirlpool to be running 247.
369
00:25:13.370 --> 00:25:15.630
So what I've noticed with some of the other,
370
00:25:17.530 --> 00:25:23.455
node implementations when you're running, you know, Whirlpool on them is they'll lock up and they'll freeze up,
371
00:25:23.915 --> 00:25:33.800
and you don't really realize it because it's not like an active process. It's something you're just going about your life, and in the background, you're just assuming that you're you're getting these free remixes,
372
00:25:34.340 --> 00:25:39.320
and then you realize, like, 4 days later or 5 days later that the Whirlpool process stopped.
373
00:25:39.885 --> 00:25:41.105
So, like, that reliability
374
00:25:41.405 --> 00:25:46.465
there is is crucial so that you can, you know, just live your life and have some peace of mind
375
00:25:47.780 --> 00:25:52.440
that that it is coin joining in the background without having to constantly check it and troubleshoot it.
376
00:25:54.180 --> 00:25:58.245
Another thing I wanted to discuss before we move on from Ronan Dojo,
377
00:25:59.505 --> 00:26:03.765
is one of the topics we talk about in dispatch a lot is monetizing
378
00:26:04.145 --> 00:26:05.605
free and open source projects.
379
00:26:06.040 --> 00:26:07.500
Free and open source projects
380
00:26:07.840 --> 00:26:08.340
are
381
00:26:08.680 --> 00:26:09.180
inherently,
382
00:26:10.280 --> 00:26:11.100
by design,
383
00:26:11.400 --> 00:26:12.220
free to,
384
00:26:13.320 --> 00:26:15.020
copy, modify, distribute.
385
00:26:16.035 --> 00:26:18.775
So as a result, you don't have the
386
00:26:19.155 --> 00:26:22.775
ability to kind of have the vendor lock in that you see with proprietary
387
00:26:23.155 --> 00:26:23.655
product.
388
00:26:25.450 --> 00:26:27.790
And as a result, you see a lot of donation
389
00:26:28.330 --> 00:26:33.630
methods used to kind of support these free and open source projects. It's one of the reasons I started OpenSats.
390
00:26:34.585 --> 00:26:38.685
It's also one of the reasons why SIL dispatch is a 100% audience funded.
391
00:26:39.945 --> 00:26:42.445
But you guys have, I mean, 2 interesting
392
00:26:44.120 --> 00:26:44.620
monetization
393
00:26:44.920 --> 00:26:48.060
schemes. 1st, obviously, this prebuilt node that we've been discussing,
394
00:26:48.600 --> 00:26:53.595
but the other one that I found really interesting is this paid support model. You wanna talk about that a little bit?
395
00:26:54.375 --> 00:27:01.360
396
00:27:01.660 --> 00:27:02.480
support portal.
397
00:27:03.020 --> 00:27:11.405
But, yeah, I think one of the great ways to give away software for free and monetize is through offering services, like,
398
00:27:12.345 --> 00:27:14.925
guided support, like walk throughs, setups,
399
00:27:16.509 --> 00:27:21.330
or even people building their own nodes that just need a little bit of command line help.
400
00:27:22.350 --> 00:27:23.330
A lot of people
401
00:27:23.755 --> 00:27:25.775
don't know where to find solutions,
402
00:27:26.155 --> 00:27:27.775
and they're tired of looking.
403
00:27:28.155 --> 00:27:32.255
You know, their time is more valuable than spending hours googling stuff,
404
00:27:33.020 --> 00:27:37.120
and they're willing to pay, you know, 25, 50, $60,
405
00:27:38.540 --> 00:27:40.320
to get a certain amount of support
406
00:27:40.725 --> 00:27:43.225
and have, you know, a support person there
407
00:27:43.764 --> 00:27:48.904
within a short amount of time, who's ready to whether it's voice chat or,
408
00:27:49.540 --> 00:27:51.560
through, you know, through Telegram or whatever,
409
00:27:52.820 --> 00:27:57.080
you'd be surprised how many people are willing to pay for that kind of service.
410
00:27:59.555 --> 00:28:01.975
411
00:28:02.515 --> 00:28:04.175
412
00:28:04.755 --> 00:28:09.670
obviously, we have some other tactics that we're working on to continue to monetize.
413
00:28:11.090 --> 00:28:14.470
But, yeah, it's it's tough to give away software for free
414
00:28:14.825 --> 00:28:17.565
and keep a roof over your head while you're doing it.
415
00:28:18.745 --> 00:28:23.325
So the more kind of little techniques like this that we can come up with to
416
00:28:24.570 --> 00:28:27.230
extract a little bit of money here and there.
417
00:28:28.330 --> 00:28:33.150
You know, we think it'll be enough to have, you know, a small little company and pay a few people.
418
00:28:33.595 --> 00:28:35.695
And it's not easy, but it's definitely possible.
419
00:28:37.915 --> 00:28:43.375
420
00:28:44.300 --> 00:28:46.140
you know, selling a piece of kit that,
421
00:28:46.700 --> 00:28:49.260
you know, is unique on the market, so to speak. And,
422
00:28:51.135 --> 00:28:56.595
it is, you know, is is a very nice piece of hardware that is is both sort of powerful and practical.
423
00:28:57.135 --> 00:28:57.635
So,
424
00:28:58.335 --> 00:29:02.350
you know, even if you've been a a long standing Ronin Dojo user,
425
00:29:03.530 --> 00:29:10.265
to which, you know, when the when the presale went live in in December, there were many existing Ronin Dojo users,
426
00:29:11.125 --> 00:29:14.425
that that pre ordered a Tanto, to which have now been delivered.
427
00:29:15.429 --> 00:29:20.470
And that sort of as a a way of, those users showing sort of their appreciation for,
428
00:29:21.190 --> 00:29:22.409
for Ronin Dojo.
429
00:29:27.885 --> 00:29:31.745
430
00:29:32.045 --> 00:29:32.545
is,
431
00:29:33.570 --> 00:29:36.070
the Tanto is out of stock on your website.
432
00:29:37.010 --> 00:29:37.510
433
00:29:37.970 --> 00:29:40.549
434
00:29:41.745 --> 00:29:45.764
435
00:29:46.625 --> 00:29:49.044
you can't miss our booth. It's gonna be huge.
436
00:29:49.860 --> 00:29:52.120
We will have tantos on the show
437
00:29:52.820 --> 00:29:53.320
floor.
438
00:29:55.140 --> 00:29:58.035
Maybe shortly before that, sales will go up
439
00:29:58.835 --> 00:30:00.855
to start selling some on our shop again,
440
00:30:01.235 --> 00:30:05.255
but we will not ship them until we get back from the Miami conference.
441
00:30:06.090 --> 00:30:08.670
442
00:30:10.890 --> 00:30:13.470
Code open source gets you 21% off.
443
00:30:13.865 --> 00:30:17.885
Don't share that code on Twitter. Otherwise, it'll get cut off as well.
444
00:30:19.145 --> 00:30:23.325
And Goro's gonna be speaking on the open source stage, which I'm very excited about.
445
00:30:23.760 --> 00:30:25.460
446
00:30:26.240 --> 00:30:27.380
447
00:30:28.080 --> 00:30:34.285
448
00:30:35.625 --> 00:30:39.780
449
00:30:40.240 --> 00:30:43.620
but I'm basically putting together the whole open source stage. It's like,
450
00:30:44.960 --> 00:30:47.380
I mean, the open source stage itself is gonna
451
00:30:51.365 --> 00:30:52.985
conferences that have ever existed
452
00:30:53.365 --> 00:30:53.865
within
453
00:30:54.779 --> 00:31:00.399
the largest Bitcoin conference that has ever existed. Because the the open source conference hall is
454
00:31:01.260 --> 00:31:03.760
like, the fire code says 2,000 people.
455
00:31:06.125 --> 00:31:12.065
We're gonna have it set up with a little less than a 1000 seats and 12 workshop tables, so they'll be like
456
00:31:12.524 --> 00:31:13.825
it won't feel cramped,
457
00:31:14.200 --> 00:31:20.220
especially after last year where we were in that tiny little tent. Oh, hell no. That was terrible.
458
00:31:21.240 --> 00:31:23.340
So, like, I made I made sure to go
459
00:31:23.835 --> 00:31:25.215
go as big as possible,
460
00:31:27.195 --> 00:31:27.515
and,
461
00:31:27.995 --> 00:31:30.015
there's gonna be 3 days of straight,
462
00:31:30.875 --> 00:31:31.375
content
463
00:31:31.860 --> 00:31:32.679
that it is,
464
00:31:33.460 --> 00:31:36.200
dedicated content for open source projects and contributors.
465
00:31:36.820 --> 00:31:39.559
So the first day will be, like, highly technical stuff,
466
00:31:40.155 --> 00:31:49.535
and then the next 2 days will be a little will be more accessible content. But, basically, in practice, it's it's gonna be, like, 3 days of serial dispatch content.
467
00:31:50.700 --> 00:31:55.260
So I'm pretty excited about that. But it's a it's been a big haul, and it's gonna be
468
00:31:55.900 --> 00:31:59.595
and stress is high right now, and it's only gonna get higher
469
00:32:00.295 --> 00:32:03.675
and a lot of moving parts. But I'm I'm very excited about it.
470
00:32:04.135 --> 00:32:05.895
471
00:32:06.750 --> 00:32:12.210
And quick to touch on it, if anybody here has not really jumped into open source,
472
00:32:13.790 --> 00:32:14.770
it's really important.
473
00:32:15.315 --> 00:32:20.135
You know, if you are looking for something to do, looking for a hobby,
474
00:32:20.595 --> 00:32:26.169
you know, if you just got Bitcoin rich and, you know, you need some something to do on the side,
475
00:32:26.630 --> 00:32:31.130
I really suggest looking into how to contribute to an open source project.
476
00:32:32.475 --> 00:32:35.934
It could be something you find useful or maybe you just wanna
477
00:32:36.395 --> 00:32:42.560
help them out. But I I just linked in the chat a little page we have that talks about,
478
00:32:43.260 --> 00:32:44.720
how anyone really can
479
00:32:45.100 --> 00:32:46.560
support open source.
480
00:32:47.180 --> 00:32:53.424
You don't have to be a coder. You could have graphic design skills. You could be messing with 3 d printers,
481
00:32:54.445 --> 00:32:54.945
whatever.
482
00:32:55.405 --> 00:32:58.465
And, you know, I can say for the Ronin Dojo project,
483
00:32:58.850 --> 00:33:00.630
we would not exist without
484
00:33:01.250 --> 00:33:03.990
all of the amazing volunteers who've came together
485
00:33:04.370 --> 00:33:05.750
seemingly out of nowhere.
486
00:33:06.210 --> 00:33:08.470
You know, we had devs and
487
00:33:09.534 --> 00:33:11.715
a hardware developer out of Taiwan,
488
00:33:12.654 --> 00:33:16.514
and all these volunteers came together, assembled the Wiki and
489
00:33:17.809 --> 00:33:18.710
working support,
490
00:33:19.010 --> 00:33:19.510
and
491
00:33:20.049 --> 00:33:22.150
it's all mostly donation based.
492
00:33:22.610 --> 00:33:23.110
And
493
00:33:23.490 --> 00:33:25.990
somehow it just came out of nowhere and works.
494
00:33:26.914 --> 00:33:28.455
Open source really is magic,
495
00:33:28.835 --> 00:33:32.294
and you can there's so many ways to dive in and help out
496
00:33:32.835 --> 00:33:35.870
on that, page I just linked in the chat.
497
00:33:36.250 --> 00:33:37.150
498
00:33:38.090 --> 00:33:38.590
dojo.io
499
00:33:39.290 --> 00:33:40.270
slash contribute.
500
00:33:40.650 --> 00:33:44.510
501
00:33:45.095 --> 00:33:49.115
there's other links on there, like, how you can get involved in open source in general
502
00:33:49.655 --> 00:33:50.554
and some strategies.
503
00:33:51.575 --> 00:33:53.515
But, yeah, I just had to plug that because,
504
00:33:53.870 --> 00:33:55.410
you know, the only reason that
505
00:33:55.950 --> 00:33:59.810
this space is even alive is because of a lot of volunteer effort,
506
00:34:00.510 --> 00:34:01.970
for free software building
507
00:34:02.555 --> 00:34:03.295
and more.
508
00:34:05.195 --> 00:34:06.655
509
00:34:07.435 --> 00:34:07.935
because,
510
00:34:08.475 --> 00:34:10.655
of course, there is always this question.
511
00:34:12.470 --> 00:34:14.970
We we were looking forward to running wiwi,
512
00:34:17.430 --> 00:34:18.150
b 2,
513
00:34:18.470 --> 00:34:19.370
for months.
514
00:34:20.015 --> 00:34:22.035
Is there any, I don't know,
515
00:34:23.455 --> 00:34:25.235
hints, any news, any
516
00:34:25.535 --> 00:34:27.795
forthcoming features that you can
517
00:34:28.335 --> 00:34:30.030
leak here or no?
518
00:34:31.050 --> 00:34:36.430
519
00:34:37.675 --> 00:34:39.615
of the UI
520
00:34:40.155 --> 00:34:41.615
that has some functionality
521
00:34:42.234 --> 00:34:44.175
that's not in the UI yet.
522
00:34:44.940 --> 00:34:48.880
So you can kind of get some hints to what is coming based on those screenshots.
523
00:34:49.420 --> 00:34:50.800
I can't get too specific,
524
00:34:52.924 --> 00:34:55.904
but you will be able to install applications,
525
00:34:57.325 --> 00:34:59.825
via the user interface. I can say that.
526
00:35:00.890 --> 00:35:04.750
We also have some features coming that are specific to,
527
00:35:05.770 --> 00:35:08.010
coin join and things like,
528
00:35:09.015 --> 00:35:10.315
calculating your entropy,
529
00:35:11.335 --> 00:35:12.795
so you don't have to use
530
00:35:13.335 --> 00:35:13.835
KYCP,
531
00:35:15.494 --> 00:35:16.395
or OXT,
532
00:35:17.299 --> 00:35:23.079
centralized blockchain explorers. You know, that there'll be some functionality that's like that that's self hosted.
533
00:35:24.704 --> 00:35:29.924
That's great. So some some really cool things to look forward to, but I can't go any further than that.
534
00:35:30.224 --> 00:35:32.244
535
00:35:32.545 --> 00:35:33.045
teasing
536
00:35:34.040 --> 00:35:34.540
session.
537
00:35:35.000 --> 00:35:40.619
538
00:35:43.234 --> 00:35:46.195
What kind of apps you mean when you say apps, you mean the
539
00:35:46.675 --> 00:35:49.474
was is that alluding to the block explorers? Or
540
00:35:50.650 --> 00:35:53.950
541
00:35:54.650 --> 00:35:55.150
or,
542
00:35:56.330 --> 00:35:57.390
you know, like, switching
543
00:35:57.690 --> 00:36:01.135
indexers, that kind of thing. Right now, you have to,
544
00:36:02.315 --> 00:36:03.215
there's, like,
545
00:36:04.075 --> 00:36:06.494
a application management list in the
546
00:36:07.010 --> 00:36:09.910
command line interface, but it is not in the
547
00:36:10.290 --> 00:36:13.590
the the new Ronin UI 2.0 yet. It's coming.
548
00:36:14.275 --> 00:36:17.895
That's up to Pavel whenever that gets done, but he's working on it.
549
00:36:20.435 --> 00:36:20.935
550
00:36:21.395 --> 00:36:21.895
551
00:36:22.850 --> 00:36:25.830
552
00:36:26.210 --> 00:36:27.590
553
00:36:29.570 --> 00:36:33.585
554
00:36:34.925 --> 00:36:35.905
555
00:36:36.285 --> 00:36:38.785
556
00:36:39.085 --> 00:36:39.805
wanting to,
557
00:36:40.310 --> 00:36:43.750
run a Ronin Dojo, then, you know, by all means, reach out or,
558
00:36:44.710 --> 00:36:46.170
there's there's sort of like
559
00:36:46.710 --> 00:36:47.610
an underground
560
00:36:48.215 --> 00:36:50.315
sort of privacy and sovereignty community,
561
00:36:51.095 --> 00:36:52.795
on sort of Telegram and Matrix.
562
00:36:54.055 --> 00:37:01.880
So, you know, if it tickles your fancy, then, you know, drop a message in one of the chats, particularly sort of the Ronin Dojo chat, and, someone can
563
00:37:02.180 --> 00:37:05.400
direct you into sort of what hardware to buy or where to start.
564
00:37:06.045 --> 00:37:08.785
565
00:37:09.325 --> 00:37:10.705
Someone linked at t.me/ronin
566
00:37:11.485 --> 00:37:11.985
dojonode.
567
00:37:12.685 --> 00:37:13.745
568
00:37:14.365 --> 00:37:14.865
569
00:37:15.480 --> 00:37:21.820
If you care about privacy and you wanna get started off of Xero, we're here to help you. Everybody's super friendly.
570
00:37:22.545 --> 00:37:26.245
We got the gear. We're trying to be the one stop privacy shop.
571
00:37:26.545 --> 00:37:27.685
Let's get it done. And,
572
00:37:29.265 --> 00:37:32.800
573
00:37:33.260 --> 00:37:33.760
Citadel
574
00:37:34.460 --> 00:37:35.360
chat, which is,
575
00:37:35.740 --> 00:37:39.645
how people participate live in the show, but also throughout the week.
576
00:37:40.205 --> 00:37:47.745
It's just really, really great Bitcoin conversation. I've been very pleasantly surprised. We have over 700 Bitcoiners in there now,
577
00:37:48.700 --> 00:37:52.160
and it still remained high signal while Twitter has just completely
578
00:37:52.619 --> 00:37:53.680
gone to the shitter.
579
00:37:54.540 --> 00:38:06.910
So if you wanna join that, that's if you go to silo dispatch.com, just click see, they'll chat. You can join that. Awesome. Well, I appreciate all the work you guys have been doing with Ronin Dojo. It is a really fantastic piece of kit.
580
00:38:08.250 --> 00:38:09.390
I look forward to
581
00:38:09.690 --> 00:38:12.430
running this Tanto through its paces, but,
582
00:38:14.434 --> 00:38:15.795
I've graduated from my
583
00:38:16.755 --> 00:38:25.010
the the one I built myself, and I've I've always enjoyed, your project. It's it's it's really fantastic, and I the freaks know I love the samurai stack.
584
00:38:27.069 --> 00:38:28.049
Cool. So
585
00:38:29.230 --> 00:38:30.130
next discussion.
586
00:38:30.910 --> 00:38:35.405
I was, you know, I was thinking, and I talked to Rob and Weil about this ahead of time,
587
00:38:37.065 --> 00:38:38.525
with everything in the news,
588
00:38:39.680 --> 00:38:40.420
in Ukraine
589
00:38:40.880 --> 00:38:42.660
and in Russia and,
590
00:38:43.840 --> 00:38:45.380
in Canada before that,
591
00:38:47.575 --> 00:38:50.075
There are a lot of people that are
592
00:38:50.454 --> 00:38:51.994
being thrust into
593
00:38:53.550 --> 00:38:56.450
this, you know, very heavy financial censorship,
594
00:38:57.470 --> 00:38:58.690
censorship and surveillance.
595
00:39:00.110 --> 00:39:01.410
Bank accounts closed.
596
00:39:02.185 --> 00:39:04.445
In Russia, their credit cards aren't working.
597
00:39:05.625 --> 00:39:08.765
In Ukraine, there was a run on the ATMs, and, obviously,
598
00:39:09.145 --> 00:39:10.205
they're getting bombed.
599
00:39:11.170 --> 00:39:13.430
So people are trying to flee their cities,
600
00:39:14.610 --> 00:39:15.830
trying to cross borders,
601
00:39:16.290 --> 00:39:22.075
ideally, with as much of their wealth as possible, at least with spending cash so they can spend on the other side of the border.
602
00:39:23.335 --> 00:39:24.635
So I thought it'd be
603
00:39:25.015 --> 00:39:29.090
a very productive and helpful conversation to kind of talk about
604
00:39:29.550 --> 00:39:32.130
different tools and tactics people could use,
605
00:39:33.070 --> 00:39:35.010
in these types of heavy adversarial
606
00:39:35.390 --> 00:39:35.890
situations.
607
00:39:36.734 --> 00:39:40.435
And not just Bitcoin specific. Right? Because on the Bitcoin side,
608
00:39:41.455 --> 00:39:45.234
fortunately, we do have, like, a decent amount of tooling in terms of
609
00:39:48.299 --> 00:39:51.920
storing your Bitcoin offline, but also just in terms of
610
00:39:52.380 --> 00:39:53.875
general data security
611
00:39:54.175 --> 00:40:02.035
and important files and important documents, maybe even family photos and stuff that that you that you wanna keep even if you're fleeing your home
612
00:40:02.380 --> 00:40:04.160
under in an adversarial environment.
613
00:40:06.620 --> 00:40:08.000
What do you guys think about that?
614
00:40:09.265 --> 00:40:12.085
615
00:40:12.785 --> 00:40:13.285
like
616
00:40:13.984 --> 00:40:15.125
crossing borders,
617
00:40:15.665 --> 00:40:16.305
that kinda
618
00:40:16.800 --> 00:40:19.460
619
00:40:21.680 --> 00:40:23.060
you know, you're in Ukraine,
620
00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:25.619
you're you're living in Kiev,
621
00:40:26.245 --> 00:40:28.665
The war starts. You have a backpack.
622
00:40:29.285 --> 00:40:33.865
You're trying to get to the border. You don't know how hostile the border is gonna be when you get there.
623
00:40:34.650 --> 00:40:37.069
What do you pack in that bag? How do you do it?
624
00:40:40.730 --> 00:40:41.230
625
00:40:43.984 --> 00:40:44.484
definitely
626
00:40:45.505 --> 00:40:47.204
one of the Calix phones,
627
00:40:49.025 --> 00:40:49.525
definitely
628
00:40:49.825 --> 00:40:57.410
doing the panic button setup. Have you looked into that? The I think it's called the panic trigger or something like that. Have you seen that, Odell?
629
00:40:58.109 --> 00:40:59.170
630
00:40:59.505 --> 00:41:03.444
but I haven't actually used it. What how do you initiate it?
631
00:41:04.385 --> 00:41:08.885
632
00:41:09.490 --> 00:41:13.590
633
00:41:14.850 --> 00:41:15.670
it's their website,
634
00:41:15.970 --> 00:41:18.995
but basically, it's a d googled version of Android.
635
00:41:20.355 --> 00:41:23.495
636
00:41:23.795 --> 00:41:24.295
preset,
637
00:41:24.915 --> 00:41:26.215
an amount of apps,
638
00:41:27.475 --> 00:41:28.135
and then
639
00:41:28.770 --> 00:41:33.830
when when you trigger the panic button, those those apps will either be sort of, they'll either disappear
640
00:41:34.130 --> 00:41:36.290
or, your that your data will be,
641
00:41:36.770 --> 00:41:38.070
erased, won't they?
642
00:41:38.755 --> 00:41:41.075
643
00:41:41.954 --> 00:41:47.780
There's certain things you can set, like a dead man switch, where if you don't check your phone within a certain amount
644
00:41:48.340 --> 00:41:51.240
of time, it wipes the phone. You could set it to, like, an hour.
645
00:41:52.740 --> 00:41:54.200
There's also a geofence
646
00:41:54.660 --> 00:41:55.160
setup
647
00:41:55.555 --> 00:41:58.215
where if the phone goes within a certain area
648
00:41:58.595 --> 00:42:01.655
or, say, was taken to a certain area from you,
649
00:42:02.195 --> 00:42:03.415
it wipes the phone.
650
00:42:04.910 --> 00:42:09.890
651
00:42:10.590 --> 00:42:14.265
652
00:42:14.645 --> 00:42:17.145
the panic kit, now that I'm looking it up.
653
00:42:17.605 --> 00:42:20.985
There's one called panic button, and there's one called ripple.
654
00:42:22.130 --> 00:42:25.430
I think they're pretty similar. I've only checked out the ripple one.
655
00:42:25.890 --> 00:42:28.150
But, I put the link in the
656
00:42:28.645 --> 00:42:31.945
657
00:42:33.205 --> 00:42:40.020
Let me see here. Is it, like, clicking the power button a certain amount of times or something? Or you can think with Ripple, you can do
658
00:42:40.320 --> 00:42:41.700
659
00:42:42.000 --> 00:42:42.820
5 times.
660
00:42:43.600 --> 00:42:51.625
I think you can have, like, a pull down from the, like, the top pull down menu. You can add a button in there. There's a couple different ways to do it.
661
00:42:52.890 --> 00:42:58.190
662
00:43:00.295 --> 00:43:03.675
Kallax, by default, is full disk encrypted.
663
00:43:04.295 --> 00:43:07.035
I think most modern phones are at this point,
664
00:43:08.060 --> 00:43:10.560
of varying levels of security, including iPhones.
665
00:43:11.980 --> 00:43:13.840
That encryption's only in place
666
00:43:17.015 --> 00:43:28.500
when you have the phone powered off. So in Correct. The general good rule of thumb is, like, when you are crossing borders, even if it's not in a wartime situation, even if you're not going through the TSA or something,
667
00:43:28.960 --> 00:43:30.980
is to have all your devices powered off
668
00:43:32.525 --> 00:43:34.625
before you go through those kind of checkpoints,
669
00:43:35.245 --> 00:43:36.065
if you can.
670
00:43:36.685 --> 00:43:39.585
671
00:43:41.150 --> 00:43:42.530
obviously, you gotta be careful,
672
00:43:43.070 --> 00:43:47.090
you know, how high security is this checkpoint and how deep are they gonna dig.
673
00:43:48.625 --> 00:43:52.005
Obviously, if you go through there with a freshly wiped phone
674
00:43:52.385 --> 00:43:57.845
or you set up your panic button in a way that wipes the phone to a very default looking state,
675
00:43:58.310 --> 00:43:59.690
that's gonna be pretty suspicious.
676
00:44:00.150 --> 00:44:04.490
They're gonna say, you know, why don't you have any text messages? Why don't you have,
677
00:44:04.869 --> 00:44:08.010
a gallery of pictures? You know, everyone has this stuff.
678
00:44:08.375 --> 00:44:11.435
So I've also read about people using techniques to have,
679
00:44:11.895 --> 00:44:13.595
dummy data on their phone.
680
00:44:13.895 --> 00:44:17.300
So if you're crossing a border, you know, you can hide certain apps,
681
00:44:17.780 --> 00:44:21.000
or you could reset your phone to a certain default state.
682
00:44:21.300 --> 00:44:24.120
But it's good to have, kind of, some dummy data
683
00:44:24.635 --> 00:44:32.815
to, you know so they see you've been texting your mom. You know, they see you've been taking pictures of your food for Instagram, and you look like a normal,
684
00:44:33.700 --> 00:44:36.440
person without any Bitcoin to bother them about.
685
00:44:41.575 --> 00:44:43.595
686
00:44:46.454 --> 00:44:48.954
you have the ability to use something called a passphrase
687
00:44:49.290 --> 00:44:50.190
with your Bitcoin seeds.
688
00:44:50.810 --> 00:44:52.350
Samurai has it by default.
689
00:44:54.090 --> 00:44:56.350
The passphrase and practice, what you can
690
00:44:56.895 --> 00:45:03.950
what you can, think of it as is if you have a 12 word seed, the pass phrase is the 13th word, and you're choosing it.
691
00:45:05.310 --> 00:45:10.060
Obviously, it doesn't have to be a word. It probably shouldn't be a word. It should be longer than a word,
692
00:45:11.484 --> 00:45:13.665
But every time you have a different passphrase,
693
00:45:14.125 --> 00:45:17.265
you have essentially, what you have is a different wallet.
694
00:45:18.365 --> 00:45:18.865
So
695
00:45:19.280 --> 00:45:24.740
if you are carrying a seed on you, which you probably shouldn't just be carrying a bare seed, and maybe we'll talk about that too,
696
00:45:25.920 --> 00:45:28.405
you can keep a certain amount of Bitcoin.
697
00:45:28.945 --> 00:45:31.925
This is what made me think about it is because you're talking about decoy data.
698
00:45:32.225 --> 00:45:36.690
You can keep a certain amount of Bitcoin on the seed, the bear seed without the pass phrase.
699
00:45:37.170 --> 00:45:38.630
Someone finds that seed,
700
00:45:39.170 --> 00:45:44.710
they restore the seed, they see there's Bitcoin on it, they take it, they think maybe they got all of the Bitcoin,
701
00:45:45.235 --> 00:45:52.295
but, really, you have a passphrase and that's where the majority of your Bitcoin's held, or maybe you have 10 passphrases,
702
00:45:53.560 --> 00:45:55.180
and it's split across them.
703
00:45:55.640 --> 00:45:57.100
So there's a lot of different,
704
00:45:57.480 --> 00:46:00.940
methods you can employ there because of that additional passphrase.
705
00:46:03.465 --> 00:46:05.885
706
00:46:06.265 --> 00:46:10.445
a a combination of all these things is how you should bring your mobile device
707
00:46:11.040 --> 00:46:12.900
through a border crossing is,
708
00:46:14.560 --> 00:46:22.815
you know, maybe you should have a Bitcoin dummy wallet. So if they open the Bitcoin wallet, they think, oh, this guy has just got $200 on there,
709
00:46:23.275 --> 00:46:25.260
and, you know, they're not worried about it.
710
00:46:26.540 --> 00:46:28.560
All of these tactics can be combined
711
00:46:29.180 --> 00:46:30.640
to effectively fool
712
00:46:31.020 --> 00:46:31.920
the border crossing,
713
00:46:32.914 --> 00:46:35.654
and hopefully not look too suspicious while you're doing it.
714
00:46:36.595 --> 00:46:40.694
715
00:46:43.579 --> 00:46:50.015
like, a set guide of of what to do and how to do it. Right? You kinda have to base it on your own threat model,
716
00:46:50.395 --> 00:46:51.214
717
00:46:53.755 --> 00:46:58.320
718
00:46:59.020 --> 00:46:59.520
719
00:46:59.980 --> 00:47:01.280
Are you dealing with some
720
00:47:01.580 --> 00:47:04.400
dumbass TSA agent, or are you dealing with,
721
00:47:04.805 --> 00:47:06.984
you know, some kind of 3 letter agency?
722
00:47:07.605 --> 00:47:08.005
It's,
723
00:47:09.204 --> 00:47:12.585
you know, a real three letter agency you need to worry about, not the TSA.
724
00:47:13.430 --> 00:47:16.490
725
00:47:17.510 --> 00:47:25.945
726
00:47:26.245 --> 00:47:28.505
Otherwise, they're gonna figure you out.
727
00:47:32.089 --> 00:47:36.255
728
00:47:37.535 --> 00:47:44.595
the the most important thing if you're looking at sort of hiding the amount of Bitcoin you're travelling with is sort of keep it keep it simple. So,
729
00:47:45.500 --> 00:47:47.440
yeah, you might you might have your,
730
00:47:47.980 --> 00:47:48.480
your
731
00:47:48.860 --> 00:47:52.480
seed words written down. I mean, if you're if you're just trying to cross a border,
732
00:47:53.365 --> 00:47:54.984
your seed words might be good,
733
00:47:55.285 --> 00:48:06.430
plus a passphrase which is in your head. And, Matt, you mentioned about, you know, having a a passphrase that, is longer than one word. But, you know, if you're just trying to get over that border, then maybe a simple passphrase,
734
00:48:07.690 --> 00:48:10.270
might might be best just for that for that transition.
735
00:48:10.650 --> 00:48:15.655
And then you can forget it. Right? Yeah. And then you can sweep the funds when you're on the other side.
736
00:48:16.915 --> 00:48:21.975
And then, you know, the question is sort of how would you how would you travel with your 12 words
737
00:48:22.580 --> 00:48:23.800
or your 24 words,
738
00:48:24.820 --> 00:48:28.200
across the border. And then I think you're into the realms of either,
739
00:48:29.295 --> 00:48:30.835
you know, moving it digitally.
740
00:48:31.295 --> 00:48:33.474
So saving that on your phone maybe
741
00:48:33.934 --> 00:48:35.395
if if that's appropriate,
742
00:48:36.734 --> 00:48:39.630
or, you know, writing it down in some sort
743
00:48:40.730 --> 00:48:42.829
of secret or sort of steganographic
744
00:48:43.210 --> 00:48:43.369
way.
745
00:48:45.450 --> 00:48:50.595
I was talking to someone last week, and, you know, whether that be sort of highlighting words in a book,
746
00:48:51.055 --> 00:48:51.555
perhaps,
747
00:48:53.030 --> 00:48:53.530
or,
748
00:48:54.150 --> 00:48:58.970
you know, I think back in the day, it was writing a a Bitcoin poem, wasn't it? The,
749
00:49:00.869 --> 00:49:01.369
since
750
00:49:03.335 --> 00:49:04.155
sort of
751
00:49:04.535 --> 00:49:07.035
752
00:49:07.895 --> 00:49:12.349
753
00:49:12.750 --> 00:49:13.650
754
00:49:14.270 --> 00:49:19.810
a a sort of script you can follow, which which, makes it in invert and commas easier.
755
00:49:20.214 --> 00:49:28.075
I wouldn't recommend doing this. I think that someone wrote a a script to sort of sweep the Internet of poems and and try to crack people's,
756
00:49:28.535 --> 00:49:29.275
seed phrases.
757
00:49:29.800 --> 00:49:33.420
But, you know, if if it's just a matter of crossing a single border,
758
00:49:33.960 --> 00:49:34.840
you can get sort of,
759
00:49:35.800 --> 00:49:37.100
you know, quite experimental
760
00:49:37.400 --> 00:49:37.900
or,
761
00:49:38.545 --> 00:49:42.325
you know, come up with some quite interesting ways of of moving it.
762
00:49:42.785 --> 00:49:44.065
But, ultimately, you know,
763
00:49:44.865 --> 00:49:45.925
it needs to be
764
00:49:46.350 --> 00:49:48.210
fairly simple for you to recover.
765
00:49:48.590 --> 00:49:49.890
You know, you don't want to,
766
00:49:50.590 --> 00:49:54.705
sort of split your seed up into so many, you know, so many pieces,
767
00:49:55.325 --> 00:49:58.145
and then perhaps, you know, pop or possibly lose 1.
768
00:49:59.085 --> 00:50:04.130
So it's, you know, keep it simple, really. Like as simple as you can get away with?
769
00:50:04.510 --> 00:50:07.490
Simple as you can get away with, but, you know, just in case,
770
00:50:08.694 --> 00:50:14.454
you know, any anyone questions it, you know, perhaps encrypt it with a, not encrypt it, but,
771
00:50:15.174 --> 00:50:17.994
add an extra extra word, which is a a passphrase.
772
00:50:18.680 --> 00:50:20.380
773
00:50:22.040 --> 00:50:23.020
774
00:50:24.040 --> 00:50:25.640
I I guess I should,
775
00:50:26.040 --> 00:50:27.580
first share that I'm Venezuelan.
776
00:50:28.635 --> 00:50:30.575
I was born and raised in Venezuela.
777
00:50:31.915 --> 00:50:34.175
So I actually had once
778
00:50:34.715 --> 00:50:36.175
locally just once.
779
00:50:36.590 --> 00:50:38.030
So the way I did it,
780
00:50:38.830 --> 00:50:40.530
I did it in 2 rounds.
781
00:50:42.270 --> 00:50:46.210
First, I just crossed the border without any Bitcoin, any.
782
00:50:46.815 --> 00:50:48.275
Didn't have anything on me,
783
00:50:49.214 --> 00:50:51.875
just to put the luggage on the other side,
784
00:50:53.214 --> 00:50:55.795
leave it in some storage, and come back.
785
00:50:56.780 --> 00:50:58.960
When I came back, I had an undisclosed
786
00:50:59.260 --> 00:51:02.000
amount of cash. I was leaving the country.
787
00:51:02.540 --> 00:51:07.894
It was on the brink of getting even worse than it had been for the past, I don't know, 15 years.
788
00:51:08.914 --> 00:51:10.855
I knew it was time just to leave,
789
00:51:12.090 --> 00:51:13.390
just to call it quits.
790
00:51:13.770 --> 00:51:17.230
So what I did was I coupled with a friend.
791
00:51:18.010 --> 00:51:20.910
This gets kind of illegal, but it's what I did.
792
00:51:21.605 --> 00:51:23.065
I just crossed the border
793
00:51:23.605 --> 00:51:25.065
through some river.
794
00:51:25.845 --> 00:51:27.465
I didn't go through the checks.
795
00:51:28.165 --> 00:51:29.785
You can actually do that
796
00:51:30.290 --> 00:51:31.190
between the border,
797
00:51:32.050 --> 00:51:33.589
in Venezuela and Colombia.
798
00:51:34.450 --> 00:51:40.195
You can pay some Fox, whatever. They just look away and you cross the border through a river.
799
00:51:40.995 --> 00:51:44.855
We crossed the river with an undisclosed amount of cash.
800
00:51:45.155 --> 00:51:48.935
I didn't even cross with the Bitcoin on me. I hadn't bought any Bitcoin.
801
00:51:49.710 --> 00:51:53.810
And once I got to Colombia, I I bought the Bitcoin in cash,
802
00:51:54.190 --> 00:51:55.330
KYC free,
803
00:51:55.870 --> 00:51:59.170
and then couple days after I just took off, and
804
00:52:00.575 --> 00:52:02.115
then, there I was.
805
00:52:03.375 --> 00:52:10.619
So I didn't go through the hassle of figuring out how to cross the border with any seat or stashing it in some luggage.
806
00:52:11.960 --> 00:52:12.700
Not necessarily
807
00:52:13.000 --> 00:52:15.180
because I didn't want to, but because
808
00:52:16.655 --> 00:52:17.635
for for
809
00:52:18.175 --> 00:52:19.955
handling cash internationally,
810
00:52:20.495 --> 00:52:21.155
you cannot,
811
00:52:21.535 --> 00:52:22.275
I don't know,
812
00:52:22.815 --> 00:52:30.800
cross borders with I'm going to throw, random numbers with, I don't know, 50 k because, of course, they're going to,
813
00:52:31.180 --> 00:52:34.705
ask you questions and potentially, just seize the cash.
814
00:52:35.325 --> 00:52:38.625
I just had to proceed in some Latino way.
815
00:52:39.405 --> 00:52:41.085
Was it was it fun?
816
00:52:41.405 --> 00:52:47.300
It was some fun. It was risky. It got dicey. I I didn't know what was going to happen because
817
00:52:47.680 --> 00:52:48.420
they're actually,
818
00:52:50.160 --> 00:52:50.900
are Garrigas
819
00:52:51.435 --> 00:52:52.575
besides the authorities.
820
00:52:53.115 --> 00:52:57.695
So I was not against a single head. I was against multiple heads.
821
00:52:57.995 --> 00:53:01.910
But still, I I had to risk it because if I don't pull the cash now,
822
00:53:02.369 --> 00:53:07.349
when am I going to return to pull however much I had? It was, like,
823
00:53:07.744 --> 00:53:10.724
either you do it or you don't. You abandon the cash.
824
00:53:12.384 --> 00:53:18.740
I would say that it's it's tough when you're put in a position of either you risk your life or
825
00:53:19.040 --> 00:53:23.940
you're you're dumb or you you will start from 0 in another country.
826
00:53:25.305 --> 00:53:28.765
You you could potentially not even speak their language.
827
00:53:29.224 --> 00:53:30.025
So for me, it was
828
00:53:31.510 --> 00:53:32.329
I don't know.
829
00:53:32.710 --> 00:53:39.450
It was not fun. It was not engaging. It's not something that I recommend to anybody, not even my worst enemy.
830
00:53:40.635 --> 00:53:42.415
Did I do it? Yes. I did it.
831
00:53:43.115 --> 00:53:48.815
Am I proud of what I do what I did? Yes. Of course. Because I was protecting some capital that was mine.
832
00:53:50.930 --> 00:53:52.470
But but that's a tangent,
833
00:53:53.570 --> 00:53:57.190
kind of of returning to topic of of stashing seeds.
834
00:53:57.810 --> 00:53:58.870
I I
835
00:53:59.234 --> 00:54:08.775
definitely do not advise or wouldn't advise or wouldn't do it myself to keep my passphrase or my seeds in my brain. I think that's an awful advice,
836
00:54:10.820 --> 00:54:18.360
essentially, because I wouldn't be able to recall the first three words, let alone 12 or 24. That's that's just a stupid,
837
00:54:19.705 --> 00:54:26.285
pardon my French. I would just write them the words down on some book and some random pages,
838
00:54:26.770 --> 00:54:30.950
not even mark them, and then go through them as soon as I cross border.
839
00:54:32.609 --> 00:54:34.630
In order for you to to actually
840
00:54:36.445 --> 00:54:38.065
keep the seats in order,
841
00:54:38.525 --> 00:54:42.525
you should keep it as simple as possible. You, you know, you you
842
00:54:43.350 --> 00:54:46.730
that's the problem when you find yourself in these tight positions.
843
00:54:47.350 --> 00:54:48.490
You start overthinking,
844
00:54:49.030 --> 00:54:54.725
and you start saying, no, but the copy is going to find it. No. But the copy is going to start asking me questions.
845
00:54:55.585 --> 00:54:56.085
And
846
00:54:56.705 --> 00:54:59.605
I don't know if if it sounds funny or not, but
847
00:55:01.510 --> 00:55:07.130
in Latin America, things are done that simply. There is there is no point in overthinking
848
00:55:07.670 --> 00:55:09.850
or making your setup so complicated
849
00:55:10.474 --> 00:55:12.974
that you're so anonymous and you're so,
850
00:55:13.275 --> 00:55:17.935
I don't know, so big into LARPing and stuff. You you do you do things,
851
00:55:19.019 --> 00:55:23.760
fringe things on plain sight, and that's the best way to hide it.
852
00:55:29.645 --> 00:55:31.025
853
00:55:32.045 --> 00:55:35.645
You do what you gotta do. You know? Not everyone is
854
00:55:36.130 --> 00:55:36.869
has to
855
00:55:37.250 --> 00:55:39.349
be super sleuth spy man.
856
00:55:40.049 --> 00:55:42.869
Not everyone is up against that kind of adversary.
857
00:55:43.650 --> 00:55:45.190
You know? In in his case,
858
00:55:45.494 --> 00:55:46.555
you know, he was
859
00:55:47.335 --> 00:55:48.795
you you know, you're dealing with
860
00:55:49.335 --> 00:55:50.395
guerrillas, basically,
861
00:55:51.095 --> 00:55:53.835
slash maybe loosely affiliated with some military
862
00:55:54.700 --> 00:55:58.560
at border crossings. You know, they don't care. They'll take a bribe and,
863
00:55:58.860 --> 00:56:04.655
you know, they don't wanna try to hack into your phone or that kind of thing. So, really, you need to,
864
00:56:05.275 --> 00:56:06.175
know your enemy
865
00:56:06.555 --> 00:56:07.935
and know his sword.
866
00:56:08.715 --> 00:56:12.655
And, you know, how are they gonna attack? What methods are they gonna try to use?
867
00:56:13.420 --> 00:56:13.920
And,
868
00:56:14.300 --> 00:56:17.280
you know, Ron and Will has a good point. A lot of people do
869
00:56:17.660 --> 00:56:21.120
really overthink this stuff, and they end up screwing themselves.
870
00:56:21.705 --> 00:56:24.765
A perfect example is, like, when you get too complex with multisig,
871
00:56:25.385 --> 00:56:32.510
and you didn't need to do that, and you end up, you know, losing your coins or having a tough time when you could have just used a pass phrase.
872
00:56:33.530 --> 00:56:36.430
So it's just about, you know, what is your threat model,
873
00:56:36.810 --> 00:56:38.030
and what is your
874
00:56:38.375 --> 00:56:42.715
actual concern of, you know, who is your adversary and what skills do they have.
875
00:56:43.495 --> 00:56:45.995
876
00:56:46.910 --> 00:56:47.810
Was there a reason
877
00:56:48.670 --> 00:56:49.650
why you didn't,
878
00:56:50.510 --> 00:56:52.930
convert the cash to Bitcoin first in Venezuela?
879
00:56:55.230 --> 00:56:56.130
880
00:56:57.135 --> 00:57:01.395
at the time, I didn't actually know about Beacon too much. I
881
00:57:01.855 --> 00:57:03.875
hadn't heard too much. I hadn't died.
882
00:57:04.175 --> 00:57:06.275
I did not know anybody that
883
00:57:06.720 --> 00:57:08.180
actually was into Bitcoin.
884
00:57:10.320 --> 00:57:11.620
Of course, I I
885
00:57:12.000 --> 00:57:20.575
didn't want to spread the word around of I have some cash that I want to convert because I'm leaving the country. I was trying to keep everything hushy-hushy.
886
00:57:21.515 --> 00:57:26.099
And one thing led to another. I I just became acquainted with some guy
887
00:57:26.720 --> 00:57:28.180
across the border that
888
00:57:29.200 --> 00:57:31.300
dealt Bitcoin o to c Bitcoin.
889
00:57:31.615 --> 00:57:37.315
I was like, hey. Can I come? I have x amount, whatever. What rate could you give me?
890
00:57:38.015 --> 00:57:40.434
Do I see you, I don't know, x date?
891
00:57:40.750 --> 00:57:43.890
And he was like, sure. Of course. He had a premium,
892
00:57:44.430 --> 00:57:45.170
but, again,
893
00:57:45.630 --> 00:57:47.330
that's a big claim that nobody
894
00:57:47.790 --> 00:57:52.545
but that guy and now I don't know. That sense of people know that I could have,
895
00:57:53.725 --> 00:57:54.465
but still,
896
00:57:55.245 --> 00:57:58.305
it's it's Bitcoin that it had does not have any documentation
897
00:57:58.765 --> 00:58:00.369
tied to it. So
898
00:58:00.990 --> 00:58:05.970
if I ever had any k y c Bitcoin, I I label it as a shitcoin,
899
00:58:06.430 --> 00:58:10.115
and, actually, the the k y c Bitcoin is the one that I spend
900
00:58:10.494 --> 00:58:12.994
regularly. I want to get rid of that crap,
901
00:58:14.735 --> 00:58:15.875
as soon as possible.
902
00:58:16.895 --> 00:58:23.690
So, I mean, we can talk about KYC in a second. Sure. Sure. Sure. It it's just a lot of tangents. The this topic is
903
00:58:25.244 --> 00:58:26.945
904
00:58:27.405 --> 00:58:27.964
trust me.
905
00:58:28.685 --> 00:58:30.945
I mean, I don't even know. At this point,
906
00:58:32.260 --> 00:58:36.360
probably over 200 hours of dispatch, and probably the majority of it is
907
00:58:36.820 --> 00:58:41.720
significantly more than yeah. It's, like, 200 hours of dispatch and most of it's tangents.
908
00:58:42.045 --> 00:58:43.265
Try and keep it organized.
909
00:58:44.685 --> 00:58:51.185
So, I mean, from my understanding there is is you just basically weren't really familiar with Bitcoin at the time of the crossing.
910
00:58:52.510 --> 00:58:53.490
No. No.
911
00:58:54.190 --> 00:58:55.570
Do you do you see
912
00:58:57.310 --> 00:59:00.609
I mean, I I I assume I don't wanna put words in your mouth.
913
00:59:01.005 --> 00:59:07.585
If if you were familiar with Bitcoin, you're a 100% cross with Bitcoin rather than cash. Right? It's just easier to cross with.
914
00:59:08.480 --> 00:59:16.020
915
00:59:16.505 --> 00:59:18.525
is that that was precisely
916
00:59:18.825 --> 00:59:19.964
the timing when
917
00:59:20.265 --> 00:59:25.085
the government was clamping down on miners. The government was prosecuting Venezuelans
918
00:59:25.430 --> 00:59:26.010
for Bitcoin.
919
00:59:26.550 --> 00:59:27.530
So I was
920
00:59:28.310 --> 00:59:33.850
again, it was so hectic for me those couple of weeks or whatever however long it was
921
00:59:34.195 --> 00:59:42.775
because I I didn't know what I could do. I could, I don't know, find somebody in Venezuela, but they happen to be some informant, some undercover agent.
922
00:59:43.160 --> 00:59:51.660
And instead of me migrating, I I end up without my cash and it caved for however long. So I was like, fuck that.
923
00:59:53.215 --> 01:00:04.640
924
01:00:06.140 --> 01:00:11.359
I think that that brings up a a really good point, I think, that has become apparent for a lot of people,
925
01:00:12.605 --> 01:00:15.905
over the last few weeks with with everything that's been going on
926
01:00:16.285 --> 01:00:23.510
is that, you know, a lot of these things, you're in a lot better position if you're prepared ahead of time before the crises hit. Once the crises hit,
927
01:00:25.010 --> 01:00:27.270
everything becomes much more difficult. Right?
928
01:00:29.045 --> 01:00:30.425
929
01:00:30.725 --> 01:00:36.345
I I I'm just glad that I made it out. I'm glad that I made it out without a bruise.
930
01:00:36.645 --> 01:00:40.690
I'm glad that I made it out with without taking any losses,
931
01:00:41.070 --> 01:00:43.810
be it emotional or or capital wise.
932
01:00:44.270 --> 01:00:45.250
But a 100%,
933
01:00:45.710 --> 01:00:48.290
once you're you're in that position of
934
01:00:48.755 --> 01:00:52.055
either make it or just you're fucked up, then
935
01:00:52.835 --> 01:00:58.950
you you don't think you you don't tend to think straight, and you can take very bad decisions,
936
01:00:59.330 --> 01:01:01.270
and many things can head south.
937
01:01:02.450 --> 01:01:05.589
So if anything, I mean, the lesson is just
938
01:01:06.645 --> 01:01:09.225
wiggle it. What what else can you do?
939
01:01:10.165 --> 01:01:11.125
Yeah. It
940
01:01:11.925 --> 01:01:13.545
it's it's it's tough.
941
01:01:14.180 --> 01:01:15.960
It's really tough. And
942
01:01:16.660 --> 01:01:17.160
when
943
01:01:17.780 --> 01:01:20.580
when things like Ukraine or Russia happen,
944
01:01:22.340 --> 01:01:23.080
I don't know.
945
01:01:24.165 --> 01:01:35.049
There is a lot of bank runs and then there is huge lines of people trying to withdraw cash because they no longer trust the government or they're they're panicking about the situation,
946
01:01:35.829 --> 01:01:36.329
then
947
01:01:37.349 --> 01:01:38.329
that's that's
948
01:01:38.710 --> 01:01:40.410
a whole other issue.
949
01:01:41.145 --> 01:01:43.405
Because if you don't have
950
01:01:43.865 --> 01:01:44.365
a
951
01:01:44.825 --> 01:01:45.325
a
952
01:01:45.785 --> 01:01:55.789
a good amount of of cash or money converted to Bitcoin, then your hands are tight. You need to either suck it up and somehow get your cash or just flee cashless
953
01:01:56.170 --> 01:02:03.704
and start from 0. I think one of the biggest concerns of mine back then was exactly that if I don't make it, then
954
01:02:04.244 --> 01:02:05.385
I'm going to be fucked.
955
01:02:11.080 --> 01:02:14.140
956
01:02:17.895 --> 01:02:24.875
On the on the I'm Yeah. Go on. Yeah. I I I won't waste more time. You're not wasting any time. Continue.
957
01:02:27.850 --> 01:02:28.350
958
01:02:28.810 --> 01:02:30.430
that, I'm just more
959
01:02:31.130 --> 01:02:34.110
than than talking about Bitcoin crossing borders.
960
01:02:35.205 --> 01:02:36.265
I have anecdotes
961
01:02:36.645 --> 01:02:38.345
multiple anecdotes because
962
01:02:38.805 --> 01:02:41.785
for our reasons personal reasons, I traveled
963
01:02:42.540 --> 01:02:43.040
overseas
964
01:02:43.580 --> 01:02:46.080
a couple times or more than a couple times.
965
01:02:46.619 --> 01:02:50.480
But more than once, I I will be crossing that same border,
966
01:02:51.785 --> 01:02:52.925
and the Colombian
967
01:02:53.305 --> 01:02:58.765
and the Venezuelan government hate each other. So they, at some point, closed it,
968
01:03:00.200 --> 01:03:02.700
and they had declared some marsh border.
969
01:03:03.640 --> 01:03:04.700
So I was crossing
970
01:03:05.000 --> 01:03:10.685
the border legally. I I does the same, crosses the border by foot, walk in. It's fine.
971
01:03:12.425 --> 01:03:15.085
But I remember one day, I'll pull over.
972
01:03:15.465 --> 01:03:17.805
You know, they send you to a small room.
973
01:03:18.950 --> 01:03:20.170
There is the soldier
974
01:03:21.190 --> 01:03:22.410
or whatever it was.
975
01:03:23.270 --> 01:03:23.770
Just
976
01:03:24.230 --> 01:03:30.065
and, of course, they can stomp on your on your rights, on your civil rights, however much they want.
977
01:03:30.765 --> 01:03:33.904
They he went all the way through my luggage,
978
01:03:35.630 --> 01:03:39.410
and then he proceeded to ask for my wallet. They the wallet wide open,
979
01:03:40.670 --> 01:03:42.610
went through the cards, the IDs,
980
01:03:43.934 --> 01:03:49.315
the cash that I had in there. And then he goes, you have more than, I don't know, â¬50,
981
01:03:49.694 --> 01:03:50.194
$50.
982
01:03:51.390 --> 01:03:54.690
This is not good because Marshall Lab blah blah blah blah.
983
01:03:54.990 --> 01:03:58.049
And then he took however much cash I I had
984
01:03:58.414 --> 01:04:00.674
and just let me go. And he say,
985
01:04:00.974 --> 01:04:09.990
I'm letting you go just because you have the cash, and I hope you understand that this is not good. This is forbidden. You could be sent to to jail.
986
01:04:10.370 --> 01:04:13.110
So that's the level of of corruption
987
01:04:13.410 --> 01:04:14.230
of of
988
01:04:14.845 --> 01:04:22.625
we don't care about your rights, just give us our money that I was, dealing with. And that had happened before the the the
989
01:04:23.100 --> 01:04:26.320
forced the forced migration happened, not after.
990
01:04:26.620 --> 01:04:27.760
So you can figure
991
01:04:28.620 --> 01:04:30.240
that I had already some,
992
01:04:32.325 --> 01:04:33.145
I don't know,
993
01:04:34.405 --> 01:04:35.225
awful extreme.
994
01:04:35.845 --> 01:04:39.305
Of course, I was alpha that. I was born and raised in the sheathole.
995
01:04:39.910 --> 01:04:44.250
I did not know any other government different than the one that I had known.
996
01:04:44.790 --> 01:04:45.290
So
997
01:04:45.910 --> 01:04:50.635
I knew exactly what I was up against, but for me was an
998
01:04:51.174 --> 01:04:53.994
experience that I wasn't initially expecting,
999
01:04:55.974 --> 01:04:59.740
because you do get accustomed to just the stash and things, to use,
1000
01:05:00.600 --> 01:05:02.860
hide things in plain in plain sight.
1001
01:05:03.160 --> 01:05:05.740
You just get accustomed to having a criminal
1002
01:05:06.040 --> 01:05:06.540
state,
1003
01:05:07.595 --> 01:05:08.974
and you mold yourself,
1004
01:05:10.795 --> 01:05:13.810
according to whatever you're dealing with, that day.
1005
01:05:19.490 --> 01:05:22.630
1006
01:05:23.255 --> 01:05:23.914
the importance
1007
01:05:25.414 --> 01:05:28.474
of Bitcoin being digital cash and self custody
1008
01:05:29.255 --> 01:05:30.990
and all and all that stuff.
1009
01:05:31.390 --> 01:05:33.890
You know, it's not just a number go up asset.
1010
01:05:34.190 --> 01:05:34.690
It's
1011
01:05:35.150 --> 01:05:40.610
it's changing lives for people out there and helping them in situations that
1012
01:05:40.945 --> 01:05:43.045
there used to not really be a solution for.
1013
01:05:46.065 --> 01:05:49.185
1014
01:05:55.319 --> 01:05:55.819
Bitcoin,
1015
01:05:59.414 --> 01:06:02.635
There if there's non Bitcoin data you wanna travel with,
1016
01:06:03.255 --> 01:06:05.595
I personally really like the idea of,
1017
01:06:07.039 --> 01:06:08.980
encrypted micro SD cards.
1018
01:06:09.359 --> 01:06:10.579
They're fucking tiny.
1019
01:06:11.279 --> 01:06:16.099
They can hold a lot of fucking data. You can have multiple of them. If you're running Linux,
1020
01:06:16.744 --> 01:06:21.805
it has the built in locks encryption so you can encrypt any drive, including micro SD cards.
1021
01:06:22.585 --> 01:06:25.644
Put them in your sock. You can put them anywhere you wanna put them.
1022
01:06:27.720 --> 01:06:30.860
I feel like that could be a very useful tool to people.
1023
01:06:32.280 --> 01:06:34.380
And once again, it's, you know, keep it simple.
1024
01:06:34.744 --> 01:06:37.565
So it's an encrypted drive. You do it through
1025
01:06:37.945 --> 01:06:38.845
the built in
1026
01:06:39.464 --> 01:06:39.964
Linux
1027
01:06:40.345 --> 01:06:42.045
encryption, the locks encryption,
1028
01:06:42.940 --> 01:06:43.339
and,
1029
01:06:43.740 --> 01:06:46.079
you keep redundant copies, and you're good.
1030
01:06:47.740 --> 01:06:49.200
1031
01:06:49.855 --> 01:06:53.135
Go ahead. What's up, brother? I was gonna say something I wanna ask,
1032
01:06:53.695 --> 01:06:55.635
Ron, is that, you know,
1033
01:06:56.255 --> 01:06:57.635
knowing what you know now
1034
01:06:58.015 --> 01:06:58.515
and,
1035
01:06:59.599 --> 01:07:04.819
having the sort of friends and, I guess, the sort of Bitcoiners, and I know you're in some Monero too,
1036
01:07:06.535 --> 01:07:15.990
Would you would you have sort of done the crossing differently, perhaps giving an, an element of trust into a sort of trusted friend that was on the other side, though, so to speak, or,
1037
01:07:16.869 --> 01:07:20.570
you know, trusted somebody with with your wealth when when crossing?
1038
01:07:21.270 --> 01:07:24.675
Or would would you still have, sort of, you
1039
01:07:25.775 --> 01:07:28.915
know, kept it in your own hands in terms of,
1040
01:07:29.215 --> 01:07:30.835
moving your wealth across border?
1041
01:07:31.190 --> 01:07:31.690
1042
01:07:32.950 --> 01:07:34.089
a tough question.
1043
01:07:34.869 --> 01:07:38.569
I don't know how to answer that, but I personally,
1044
01:07:40.335 --> 01:07:42.675
regardless of how much I I know
1045
01:07:43.375 --> 01:07:45.875
now or what happened back then,
1046
01:07:46.655 --> 01:07:51.970
I would dare say that I wouldn't entrust my capital or my cash to anybody.
1047
01:07:52.910 --> 01:07:56.289
I wouldn't I wouldn't ask for advice, from anybody
1048
01:07:56.750 --> 01:07:58.450
because thanks to that
1049
01:07:59.005 --> 01:08:01.745
type of society or that type of state,
1050
01:08:02.525 --> 01:08:03.025
you
1051
01:08:03.645 --> 01:08:06.945
grow ever so tired of entrusting anybody.
1052
01:08:07.440 --> 01:08:09.619
Everybody is trying to look after themselves.
1053
01:08:10.240 --> 01:08:10.980
If they
1054
01:08:11.280 --> 01:08:14.420
get a chance to fuck you over, trust me. They will.
1055
01:08:14.994 --> 01:08:17.655
So that that's precisely I was
1056
01:08:18.195 --> 01:08:18.695
stingy.
1057
01:08:18.995 --> 01:08:21.495
I was very cautious with disclosing,
1058
01:08:21.940 --> 01:08:23.380
hey. I'm migrating. I
1059
01:08:23.940 --> 01:08:25.960
instead of doing that, I I just
1060
01:08:26.420 --> 01:08:27.560
did my own thing.
1061
01:08:29.745 --> 01:08:31.045
One thing that I would,
1062
01:08:31.825 --> 01:08:36.005
emphasize is just if you're fleeing a country, just do it
1063
01:08:36.440 --> 01:08:37.980
k y c free. So
1064
01:08:38.520 --> 01:08:45.659
neither of the states nor near the state you're in, neither the country you're in, nor the state you're fleeing to
1065
01:08:46.175 --> 01:08:48.994
knows that you actually have possession of those coins.
1066
01:08:49.695 --> 01:08:56.870
And better yet, if you can use, I don't know, a breach country like I did, because I'm not actually in Colombia and elsewhere,
1067
01:08:57.489 --> 01:08:59.190
then even better because you're
1068
01:08:59.650 --> 01:09:00.150
obfuscating
1069
01:09:00.530 --> 01:09:01.190
and obfuscating
1070
01:09:02.085 --> 01:09:02.585
even
1071
01:09:03.045 --> 01:09:05.225
further whatever it is that you're
1072
01:09:05.765 --> 01:09:08.985
kind of keeping stashed to yourself. And
1073
01:09:09.390 --> 01:09:12.370
I don't even know if I'm answering your question. It's just
1074
01:09:12.750 --> 01:09:14.210
it's just a tough position.
1075
01:09:15.070 --> 01:09:16.130
It's just a tough
1076
01:09:16.430 --> 01:09:17.730
thing to deal with.
1077
01:09:18.934 --> 01:09:21.034
Of course, across time, I
1078
01:09:21.815 --> 01:09:26.074
I would say that enduring that or embracing that type of thing
1079
01:09:26.620 --> 01:09:28.480
has taught me a couple things,
1080
01:09:29.900 --> 01:09:30.400
and
1081
01:09:31.980 --> 01:09:34.320
it's it's just hard. I
1082
01:09:34.945 --> 01:09:39.684
I don't know I don't know what what type of advice I would give other than
1083
01:09:40.625 --> 01:09:41.844
embrace for impact,
1084
01:09:42.260 --> 01:09:44.520
and things can happen very quickly.
1085
01:09:45.380 --> 01:09:50.520
Today, we see with Ukraine and and Russia that just a flip of of a pen or just
1086
01:09:51.165 --> 01:09:52.305
talk like Putin
1087
01:09:53.165 --> 01:09:55.585
flipped the the the pancake entirely.
1088
01:09:57.790 --> 01:10:05.570
But many other scenarios can happen as well, so you just gotta be prepared. And those times in which you you say,
1089
01:10:05.925 --> 01:10:16.090
no. It doesn't happen in the fierce world. Fuck, yeah. It happens in the fierce world. It can happen anywhere. It happened in Canada, and and it happened be within few hours. It didn't happen,
1090
01:10:16.390 --> 01:10:18.730
I don't know, in 3, 4 weeks.
1091
01:10:20.630 --> 01:10:22.570
That that is to be prime minister
1092
01:10:22.949 --> 01:10:24.570
just declared some similar,
1093
01:10:25.365 --> 01:10:28.505
national state to that of of World War.
1094
01:10:29.045 --> 01:10:30.985
So the heck is wrong with that guy?
1095
01:10:34.730 --> 01:10:39.950
1096
01:10:40.410 --> 01:10:44.625
something that we all often know, you know, champion about is sort of being self sovereign
1097
01:10:45.244 --> 01:10:46.864
and, the actions you took,
1098
01:10:48.205 --> 01:10:52.920
albeit, you know, somewhat difficult to hear and not sure I could see myself in that situation.
1099
01:10:54.340 --> 01:10:57.375
You know, it comes down to, you know, being self sovereign with
1100
01:10:58.335 --> 01:11:03.235
your Bitcoin and your wealth and, you know, your data to what we touched on before. And,
1101
01:11:03.855 --> 01:11:07.429
you know, it's it's difficult when when it comes to it. But,
1102
01:11:08.130 --> 01:11:12.630
you know, being able to trust yourself more than anybody else is is maybe what's important.
1103
01:11:14.915 --> 01:11:15.415
1104
01:11:16.755 --> 01:11:18.075
I wish I wish,
1105
01:11:18.515 --> 01:11:21.175
the the situation in Venezuela have been better
1106
01:11:21.640 --> 01:11:25.100
or that I have better context. I don't know. Some miners,
1107
01:11:25.800 --> 01:11:29.500
some OTC traders, and it would have been way
1108
01:11:30.315 --> 01:11:32.175
easier for me. I wouldn't have,
1109
01:11:32.715 --> 01:11:34.014
taken a couple trips.
1110
01:11:34.875 --> 01:11:37.295
I wouldn't have done the revert thing.
1111
01:11:38.290 --> 01:11:41.110
I would just have done what I preached before.
1112
01:11:41.570 --> 01:11:45.030
Just write down, 12 words or 24 words
1113
01:11:45.715 --> 01:11:53.335
in different pages in a book and just stash it somewhere in the luggage. And don't even bother about having a Bitcoin wallet in my phone.
1114
01:11:53.830 --> 01:11:59.770
With the seed, I know that I can restore it anywhere else once I cross the border or get to my destination.
1115
01:12:00.475 --> 01:12:02.815
There is not even a need for me
1116
01:12:03.115 --> 01:12:07.935
to have anything on the phone that says I'm a Bitcoiner or I'm into Monero.
1117
01:12:08.580 --> 01:12:11.000
As long as I have the seed, that's fine.
1118
01:12:11.460 --> 01:12:13.640
And the way that you can, I don't know,
1119
01:12:14.580 --> 01:12:19.855
provide yourself with some ease of mind is once you have written it down somewhere,
1120
01:12:20.395 --> 01:12:22.015
however you want to do it,
1121
01:12:22.555 --> 01:12:29.160
you take the with the words, you take a Virgin wallet, and you try to restore deceit so that you know that
1122
01:12:29.699 --> 01:12:31.160
whenever you cross the border,
1123
01:12:32.020 --> 01:12:34.040
you're going to have your money saved?
1124
01:12:35.155 --> 01:12:37.175
I wouldn't even bother about the passphrase.
1125
01:12:38.275 --> 01:12:39.094
It's just
1126
01:12:39.715 --> 01:12:42.455
the bottom line is just keep things simple,
1127
01:12:43.600 --> 01:12:46.100
attest that they work before you do it,
1128
01:12:46.560 --> 01:12:48.340
and just roll with it.
1129
01:12:48.880 --> 01:12:51.360
That it's as simple as that. We
1130
01:12:51.925 --> 01:12:54.505
when when you find yourself in those tough spots,
1131
01:12:55.125 --> 01:12:58.105
you you're just killing yourself with your mind. And
1132
01:12:58.405 --> 01:13:01.625
instead of making changes, you're you're making things worse.
1133
01:13:04.690 --> 01:13:05.909
1134
01:13:06.290 --> 01:13:07.350
continue on,
1135
01:13:08.370 --> 01:13:09.989
about recovering seed phrases,
1136
01:13:11.575 --> 01:13:15.675
I've just put a link in the chat. The Calix phone as well has
1137
01:13:16.455 --> 01:13:18.475
a seed vault encrypted backup.
1138
01:13:19.190 --> 01:13:21.770
So, you know, if you need to recover your Bitcoin
1139
01:13:22.390 --> 01:13:24.170
or recover your Calix phone,
1140
01:13:24.630 --> 01:13:26.410
the functionality is very similar.
1141
01:13:27.215 --> 01:13:31.315
I believe both of them are 12 words, at least if you're using Samura wallet.
1142
01:13:33.054 --> 01:13:51.125
So, really, as long as you come up with the scheme for this, then you can I think you can cross these borders effectively and recover whatever data you want, you know, bit whether it's your Bitcoin or your phone or whatever? The main difference with the Galaxy Vault is you also need the the digital encrypted file.
1143
01:13:52.145 --> 01:13:59.370
1144
01:13:59.670 --> 01:14:02.570
1145
01:14:03.805 --> 01:14:06.145
or even using, stuff like PGP
1146
01:14:06.765 --> 01:14:12.865
and then have that, you know, encrypted in plain sight and then have, you know, your key hidden off somewhere,
1147
01:14:14.390 --> 01:14:19.850
You know, a mix of all of these tactics, however you wanna combine them, and a little bit of education.
1148
01:14:20.469 --> 01:14:21.290
And I think
1149
01:14:21.945 --> 01:14:24.045
people could fool most border crossings
1150
01:14:24.425 --> 01:14:25.805
and have a really effective
1151
01:14:26.345 --> 01:14:29.245
kinda mobile setup if they need to be on the go.
1152
01:14:31.480 --> 01:14:35.179
1153
01:14:36.840 --> 01:14:45.535
1154
01:14:46.099 --> 01:14:46.599
after,
1155
01:14:47.539 --> 01:14:49.000
you asked to pay me in Monero.
1156
01:14:52.340 --> 01:14:55.400
You're one of 3 freaks that have asked me to pay in Monero,
1157
01:14:56.015 --> 01:14:56.755
since I've
1158
01:14:57.855 --> 01:14:58.815
been since I've been,
1159
01:14:59.615 --> 01:15:01.315
distributing the dispatch ads.
1160
01:15:03.210 --> 01:15:09.070
What do you wanna talk about? I know you have strong opinions. I know you think certain things aren't covered on here. You wanna talk about KYC?
1161
01:15:10.409 --> 01:15:12.670
1162
01:15:13.435 --> 01:15:15.275
I mean, we could go on for
1163
01:15:16.955 --> 01:15:19.935
If we can get to KYC, I appreciate the invite.
1164
01:15:20.490 --> 01:15:24.110
I appreciate the hug that you gave me along with the hat too. No
1165
01:15:24.490 --> 01:15:25.210
for the record.
1166
01:15:26.890 --> 01:15:27.390
But
1167
01:15:28.735 --> 01:15:29.235
I
1168
01:15:30.095 --> 01:15:32.355
can we talk about number go up, please?
1169
01:15:32.895 --> 01:15:35.790
1170
01:15:39.230 --> 01:15:39.730
1171
01:15:40.270 --> 01:15:42.370
at the end of the day, the thing with
1172
01:15:43.485 --> 01:15:44.225
with these,
1173
01:15:45.085 --> 01:15:46.465
scenarios of the borders
1174
01:15:47.085 --> 01:15:54.500
is that there is a huge difference, and you see firsthand or you experience it firsthand when you're escaping things.
1175
01:15:56.400 --> 01:15:58.820
If if you buy k y c coins
1176
01:15:59.655 --> 01:16:04.315
and you flee with those coins, they're going to have a permanent record or not permanent
1177
01:16:04.695 --> 01:16:11.350
before some compliant asshole says that it's a store for 10 years only because it's written in law blah blah blah.
1178
01:16:11.810 --> 01:16:16.550
Let's say 10 years. There is going to be a a record of how much you bought,
1179
01:16:17.155 --> 01:16:20.295
when, how, for 10 years while you're being,
1180
01:16:21.315 --> 01:16:22.615
I don't know, a refugee.
1181
01:16:23.235 --> 01:16:25.255
And for me, it's it's pointless.
1182
01:16:26.220 --> 01:16:30.240
And the the problem with number go up and mass adoption things
1183
01:16:30.940 --> 01:16:32.720
is that they make the user,
1184
01:16:34.700 --> 01:16:35.200
lazy.
1185
01:16:35.645 --> 01:16:36.784
They make the user,
1186
01:16:37.804 --> 01:16:42.784
more prone to entrusting third parties, to entrusting centralized exchanges.
1187
01:16:43.750 --> 01:16:45.130
They they don't,
1188
01:16:46.630 --> 01:16:47.690
advocate for,
1189
01:16:48.310 --> 01:16:49.210
self custody.
1190
01:16:49.830 --> 01:16:50.330
So,
1191
01:16:51.075 --> 01:16:54.455
effectively, number go up or pen permanent
1192
01:16:54.835 --> 01:16:57.735
pull or however you want to label it,
1193
01:16:58.170 --> 01:17:00.030
it's it's kind of a counterproductive,
1194
01:17:02.010 --> 01:17:02.510
narrative
1195
01:17:03.210 --> 01:17:07.345
because it's it's undermining what we're in for. If
1196
01:17:07.725 --> 01:17:09.505
we're in here to become sovereign,
1197
01:17:10.125 --> 01:17:11.185
to free ourselves,
1198
01:17:11.965 --> 01:17:13.505
to be self defiant,
1199
01:17:13.885 --> 01:17:14.385
unconvertible
1200
01:17:14.765 --> 01:17:15.265
misfits,
1201
01:17:17.239 --> 01:17:25.420
while we're advocating for people to, I don't know, sign up on Swan or Cash App or your next KYC shop,
1202
01:17:26.755 --> 01:17:29.735
you're not you're you're you're kind of being hypocrite
1203
01:17:30.515 --> 01:17:33.415
because you're advocating just to enrich yourself.
1204
01:17:33.770 --> 01:17:35.630
You're not advocating to free,
1205
01:17:36.170 --> 01:17:37.470
others or yourself,
1206
01:17:38.090 --> 01:17:40.670
and that's what pisses me off big time.
1207
01:17:41.265 --> 01:17:43.205
Because while you're evocating
1208
01:17:43.665 --> 01:17:45.125
for a tool for freedom,
1209
01:17:45.585 --> 01:17:47.605
you're not using the tool correctly.
1210
01:17:48.225 --> 01:17:50.485
You're telling the state that you own it.
1211
01:17:51.070 --> 01:17:57.410
And not only you're telling your the state that you own it, you're also entrusting private companies with your data.
1212
01:17:57.790 --> 01:17:58.930
So it's it's
1213
01:17:59.395 --> 01:18:01.815
it's like, what are you doing? And
1214
01:18:03.315 --> 01:18:06.935
it it it happens in multiple chains. I I'm not saying this
1215
01:18:07.310 --> 01:18:09.170
just because Bitcoin maximalist
1216
01:18:09.550 --> 01:18:13.090
suck. It happens in Monero as well. It happens anywhere.
1217
01:18:13.630 --> 01:18:16.530
Number number go up is is just stupid.
1218
01:18:17.855 --> 01:18:20.755
And there there cannot be just 1 coin either.
1219
01:18:21.215 --> 01:18:23.315
This is going on a tangent, but, still,
1220
01:18:24.415 --> 01:18:27.760
I don't care if Bitcoin goes to $1 tomorrow.
1221
01:18:28.460 --> 01:18:32.079
I know the mining dynamics, blah blah blah. It's nonprofitable
1222
01:18:32.540 --> 01:18:33.520
blah blah blah.
1223
01:18:34.035 --> 01:18:38.215
But the point is, if if Bitcoin were to go to $1 tomorrow
1224
01:18:38.915 --> 01:18:41.255
and Monero goes to 1¢ tomorrow,
1225
01:18:41.870 --> 01:18:43.890
the transactions will still clear.
1226
01:18:44.270 --> 01:18:46.130
People would still be sovereign.
1227
01:18:46.510 --> 01:18:48.210
People will be still sovereign.
1228
01:18:48.670 --> 01:18:51.330
So I think the motto of my my rant is
1229
01:18:51.855 --> 01:18:53.474
let's focus more on sovereignty,
1230
01:18:54.255 --> 01:18:55.315
on on
1231
01:18:55.855 --> 01:18:56.355
freedom,
1232
01:18:57.054 --> 01:19:00.915
on freedom of speech, and on financial freedom and independence,
1233
01:19:01.970 --> 01:19:02.470
rather
1234
01:19:03.170 --> 01:19:05.830
than Bitcoin is going to go through, I don't know,
1235
01:19:06.290 --> 01:19:06.790
200,000,000.
1236
01:19:07.810 --> 01:19:13.975
There is not going to be anything else. We're phasing everything out just because Austrian economics are awesome
1237
01:19:15.075 --> 01:19:22.659
and whatever else. It's just a lot of blatant back pumping, and it's just part of my friends, and I'm done with this, retarded.
1238
01:19:29.315 --> 01:19:31.575
1239
01:19:33.155 --> 01:19:34.695
if not most of it.
1240
01:19:35.715 --> 01:19:36.535
Would you
1241
01:19:38.330 --> 01:19:41.390
when you say number go up, you don't necessarily mean
1242
01:19:42.570 --> 01:19:45.710
do I mean, do you not think that the data will increase?
1243
01:19:46.325 --> 01:19:48.025
1244
01:19:50.165 --> 01:19:53.225
1245
01:19:53.605 --> 01:19:54.905
Just smacked his table.
1246
01:19:55.510 --> 01:19:59.210
1247
01:20:00.710 --> 01:20:04.810
1248
01:20:06.615 --> 01:20:08.475
like, purchasing power going up.
1249
01:20:08.935 --> 01:20:15.035
1250
01:20:15.560 --> 01:20:16.060
that
1251
01:20:17.800 --> 01:20:20.380
just go on on cancel run pages.
1252
01:20:21.160 --> 01:20:23.555
Get it off of BISQ or Minit
1253
01:20:24.415 --> 01:20:25.635
or Bio 2C.
1254
01:20:26.575 --> 01:20:27.875
And it's
1255
01:20:28.335 --> 01:20:35.470
it's like, yes. We're going to achieve mass adoption through Swan, but but that's not the that's not the way. It's like
1256
01:20:36.010 --> 01:20:44.535
I don't know. For me, it feels like I feel I I see a person hitting her, their heads with a closet door over and over again
1257
01:20:45.075 --> 01:20:46.135
and being in denial.
1258
01:20:46.755 --> 01:21:02.425
Yes. We're winning the fight, but we're not exactly winning. I'm shooting my own feet while I'm saying that I'm winning. You get what I mean. It's like It's funny. I was at a a meetup last night, and some of the guys there are kinda newer Bitcoiners.
1259
01:21:03.125 --> 01:21:05.224
1260
01:21:05.764 --> 01:21:06.264
where
1261
01:21:08.220 --> 01:21:12.000
mass adoption at all costs, you know, if,
1262
01:21:12.380 --> 01:21:19.475
you know, huge KYC exchanges, most people having their coins locked up on exchanges like it is right now,
1263
01:21:20.335 --> 01:21:25.555
they were they came to the conclusion themselves that that's just not worth it. It's kind of defeating,
1264
01:21:26.909 --> 01:21:28.130
to this dream of,
1265
01:21:28.590 --> 01:21:33.489
you know, the, like, the white paper itself is titled Bitcoin is electronic cash,
1266
01:21:33.895 --> 01:21:35.995
and it's supposed to be peer to peer without
1267
01:21:36.295 --> 01:21:36.795
intermediaries.
1268
01:21:37.655 --> 01:21:40.635
You know, Satoshi said it in the first sentence of the abstract.
1269
01:21:41.840 --> 01:21:45.220
So it couldn't be clearer, you know, what the mission is here.
1270
01:21:45.760 --> 01:21:49.060
And I think most people will realize very quickly,
1271
01:21:49.445 --> 01:21:52.905
especially once you have a sizable stack and you could become a target,
1272
01:21:53.525 --> 01:21:55.385
that it's not worth it
1273
01:21:56.245 --> 01:21:58.665
to have everyone within the walled garden.
1274
01:21:59.140 --> 01:22:01.320
If that's what it takes for mass adoption,
1275
01:22:01.620 --> 01:22:02.120
then,
1276
01:22:02.820 --> 01:22:07.480
we've effectively failed. And I get that privacy will always be a fringe movement,
1277
01:22:07.995 --> 01:22:16.175
and self custody is getting a lot better, and and more people than ever are pulling their coins off exchanges and things like that and thinking about privacy.
1278
01:22:16.560 --> 01:22:18.900
And, you know, the wind is in our sails very much,
1279
01:22:19.680 --> 01:22:26.075
but we still have a really, really long way to go before we even put a dent in all of this KYC
1280
01:22:26.935 --> 01:22:28.235
mindset and custodial
1281
01:22:28.615 --> 01:22:29.115
mindset.
1282
01:22:30.135 --> 01:22:31.835
1283
01:22:32.855 --> 01:22:33.915
I think we all
1284
01:22:34.340 --> 01:22:37.880
agree that, you know, KYC Bitcoin has already captured Bitcoin.
1285
01:22:39.140 --> 01:22:44.895
I mean, it's ideal that people self custody. I I still think that's a net benefit even if they KYC.
1286
01:22:47.114 --> 01:22:58.080
But, you know, in a in a truly adversarial environment, if there's a record of you purchasing Bitcoin, how much Bitcoin you purchased, your withdrawal addresses, you don't use any privacy best practices going forward.
1287
01:22:58.860 --> 01:23:03.155
So your future transactions and balances are are essentially actively tracked.
1288
01:23:05.295 --> 01:23:08.435
There's a lot of points where pressure can be put on you.
1289
01:23:08.895 --> 01:23:12.190
I mean, we just saw with the the Department of Justice,
1290
01:23:13.050 --> 01:23:19.710
they seized those Bitfinex hacked coins. Right? And that was the largest single seizure in Department of Justice history.
1291
01:23:20.345 --> 01:23:22.685
So we have people sending out engagement tweets
1292
01:23:23.385 --> 01:23:25.965
saying that, you know, Bitcoin is unconfiscatable,
1293
01:23:26.960 --> 01:23:28.980
but meanwhile, the largest confiscation
1294
01:23:29.360 --> 01:23:31.060
in department of justice history
1295
01:23:31.760 --> 01:23:32.820
was done with Bitcoin.
1296
01:23:34.425 --> 01:23:40.125
So, obviously, the privacy aspect is key there, and it's not just the state because these records are kept
1297
01:23:40.665 --> 01:23:43.965
practically forever. You can just pretty much assume they're kept forever,
1298
01:23:45.120 --> 01:23:46.500
and they're stored in securely.
1299
01:23:46.800 --> 01:23:49.540
We've seen anything that can get hacked will get hacked.
1300
01:23:50.160 --> 01:23:55.935
So it's not just the state. It's all different sorts of malicious entities that are gonna get their hands on this kind of information.
1301
01:23:56.555 --> 01:24:06.320
1302
01:24:07.180 --> 01:24:10.560
he said he mistakenly thought that Bitcoin was private. Right?
1303
01:24:11.260 --> 01:24:11.760
And,
1304
01:24:12.824 --> 01:24:15.804
this has been going on for a long time. People say it's unconfiscatable.
1305
01:24:16.665 --> 01:24:19.440
It's not. Just like you said, they confiscated it,
1306
01:24:20.080 --> 01:24:27.140
1307
01:24:27.485 --> 01:24:31.425
1308
01:24:31.965 --> 01:24:43.440
It and Bitcoin is what you make it. It is how you use the tools. And Bitcoin means different things to different people. So sure, while an energy plant wants to offset their flare off by using Bitcoin
1309
01:24:43.775 --> 01:24:48.835
and they're already within the system, that's one thing. That Bitcoin means one thing to that industry.
1310
01:24:49.295 --> 01:24:53.554
But to our side of the industry where we wanna use Bitcoin like it's cash,
1311
01:24:54.240 --> 01:24:59.540
you have to use the tools completely differently and you have to operate completely differently. And if you just
1312
01:25:00.080 --> 01:25:04.245
and if you just listen to people on Twitter who say, you know, Bitcoin's perfect.
1313
01:25:04.625 --> 01:25:07.525
It's perfectly decentralized. It's totally unconfiscatable.
1314
01:25:08.305 --> 01:25:09.605
It's anonymous. Whatever.
1315
01:25:11.290 --> 01:25:15.150
You know, then you're gonna get fooled. And you're not gonna get proper education.
1316
01:25:15.770 --> 01:25:20.030
You're just gonna smash that like button and believe everything you read. Like and retweet.
1317
01:25:20.545 --> 01:25:21.205
Yep. And,
1318
01:25:21.825 --> 01:25:22.645
you know, unfortunately,
1319
01:25:23.345 --> 01:25:26.965
it's detrimental. These influencers are fucking over a lot of people,
1320
01:25:27.505 --> 01:25:30.085
and especially people who really need privacy
1321
01:25:30.610 --> 01:25:33.590
because there's people out there, like he was talking about in Venezuela,
1322
01:25:34.370 --> 01:25:44.745
and we see users like this all the time in the Ronin Dojo and the samurai rooms. There's people out there who can't screw up. And if they do, it has serious real world real world consequences.
1323
01:25:45.125 --> 01:25:46.345
And these influencers
1324
01:25:46.980 --> 01:25:48.420
are not taking it seriously.
1325
01:25:49.940 --> 01:25:54.760
You know, I don't know if they just they're just boosting their ego or they're just engagement farming.
1326
01:25:55.625 --> 01:26:08.350
1327
01:26:09.530 --> 01:26:15.934
by a passive attacker that might not even be watching you yet, doesn't have external data yet, but gets it later.
1328
01:26:16.235 --> 01:26:20.554
But to to jump off there, I mean, where I was going with that question was
1329
01:26:21.250 --> 01:26:23.910
I mean, it wasn't a question yet, but this was the question.
1330
01:26:25.170 --> 01:26:29.190
Is this idea of, like, mass adoption at all costs, this idea of
1331
01:26:30.034 --> 01:26:32.054
the majority of people coming in through KYC,
1332
01:26:32.994 --> 01:26:36.855
is is it an attack on Bitcoin, or is it a threat to the individuals
1333
01:26:37.715 --> 01:26:38.215
that
1334
01:26:39.090 --> 01:26:40.469
are captured by it?
1335
01:26:41.010 --> 01:26:41.842
1336
01:26:42.385 --> 01:26:43.170
my opinion. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
1337
01:26:44.610 --> 01:26:48.070
1338
01:26:48.845 --> 01:26:52.705
But for me, k y c k y c is, an active,
1339
01:26:53.965 --> 01:26:54.465
attack
1340
01:26:56.059 --> 01:27:00.320
from the state and and the private companies and the essentially a way to
1341
01:27:01.739 --> 01:27:02.239
seize,
1342
01:27:02.940 --> 01:27:04.320
considerable amount of
1343
01:27:05.445 --> 01:27:07.864
the supply and hold the hostage and be like,
1344
01:27:08.324 --> 01:27:10.585
I don't know, some fucked up movie scene.
1345
01:27:10.965 --> 01:27:20.489
Do you want the ice cone? The ice cream cone? Come and get it. The first suck my dick. You know what I mean? It's it's just fucked up. K y c, it's it's the enemy,
1346
01:27:21.190 --> 01:27:21.690
and
1347
01:27:22.355 --> 01:27:22.855
it's
1348
01:27:23.955 --> 01:27:26.535
I I I don't say that I'm pristine.
1349
01:27:27.235 --> 01:27:30.215
I don't say that I'm an I don't know the best
1350
01:27:31.420 --> 01:27:37.600
Bitcoin owner, and I'm supremely anonymous on Mars because I as well have KYC coins.
1351
01:27:38.935 --> 01:27:40.795
They may or may not be mine,
1352
01:27:42.375 --> 01:27:46.315
as in I was the one to who put the documents. But regardless,
1353
01:27:46.909 --> 01:27:53.570
I have owned, k y c coins. And as I say before, they're like the poison to me.
1354
01:27:54.415 --> 01:27:56.835
As long as I see the opportunity to spend them,
1355
01:27:57.295 --> 01:27:58.114
go for it.
1356
01:27:58.815 --> 01:28:02.195
It's just an effective attack from the state and the central banks
1357
01:28:03.100 --> 01:28:05.040
and should be avoided at all costs.
1358
01:28:05.980 --> 01:28:07.040
That's my take.
1359
01:28:08.860 --> 01:28:16.505
1360
01:28:17.465 --> 01:28:20.540
You know, trying to use an asset which is, unconfiscatable,
1361
01:28:22.760 --> 01:28:23.560
and, you know,
1362
01:28:24.120 --> 01:28:32.815
as s 2 l said before, you know, it's peer to peer. Electronic digital cash is is all well and great, but it's an immutable ledger. And,
1363
01:28:34.015 --> 01:28:37.739
I think we saw we saw the sort of the events
1364
01:28:38.440 --> 01:28:39.900
of the Canada donations
1365
01:28:40.280 --> 01:28:40.780
to,
1366
01:28:41.560 --> 01:28:42.060
the,
1367
01:28:42.760 --> 01:28:43.420
the truckers,
1368
01:28:43.880 --> 01:28:44.860
that were protesting,
1369
01:28:46.325 --> 01:28:47.465
you know, sort of,
1370
01:28:48.805 --> 01:28:50.425
I guess, sort of Bitcoin Twitter
1371
01:28:51.525 --> 01:28:52.345
went from,
1372
01:28:53.045 --> 01:28:53.630
sort of
1373
01:28:54.590 --> 01:28:56.690
I don't really know how to phrase it, but sort of
1374
01:28:57.150 --> 01:28:59.810
celebrating and and championing a a a crowdsource
1375
01:29:01.085 --> 01:29:02.545
fund of of Bitcoin
1376
01:29:02.925 --> 01:29:03.665
to support,
1377
01:29:04.285 --> 01:29:05.585
the truckers. But,
1378
01:29:05.965 --> 01:29:09.430
you know, when it came down to it and and I and I don't mean to say this
1379
01:29:09.990 --> 01:29:12.410
in a in a too much of a negative sense,
1380
01:29:12.790 --> 01:29:13.290
because
1381
01:29:13.590 --> 01:29:14.810
I think that the,
1382
01:29:16.230 --> 01:29:20.425
that, you know, those that backed the the sort of the Crowdfund campaign
1383
01:29:20.965 --> 01:29:23.845
did it for the right reasons. But when it came down to it,
1384
01:29:24.725 --> 01:29:27.065
you know, there were some some sort of basic,
1385
01:29:28.280 --> 01:29:29.580
unfortunately, some basic,
1386
01:29:30.440 --> 01:29:31.900
Bitcoins or 101,
1387
01:29:34.440 --> 01:29:34.940
101
1388
01:29:36.284 --> 01:29:36.784
rules.
1389
01:29:37.165 --> 01:29:38.525
Can you call it those? Could it
1390
01:29:39.565 --> 01:29:45.139
that that weren't followed, which which sort of led to some some real big screw ups. And,
1391
01:29:45.599 --> 01:29:46.260
you know,
1392
01:29:46.800 --> 01:29:50.260
going back to, I think, one of you said earlier, you know, not screwing up. Well,
1393
01:29:51.555 --> 01:29:53.335
not screwing up today doesn't mean
1394
01:29:53.875 --> 01:29:59.315
not being bit in the ass, you know, tomorrow or in in a week or in a year,
1395
01:30:00.050 --> 01:30:01.830
because of the immutable ledger. So
1396
01:30:02.690 --> 01:30:06.310
obtaining an OKYC Bitcoin is is a step in the right direction,
1397
01:30:07.090 --> 01:30:07.590
certainly.
1398
01:30:08.850 --> 01:30:10.745
There are some tools you can use,
1399
01:30:11.364 --> 01:30:12.905
with Bitcoin that can
1400
01:30:13.205 --> 01:30:13.705
certainly
1401
01:30:14.405 --> 01:30:15.145
help you,
1402
01:30:15.685 --> 01:30:16.185
transact,
1403
01:30:17.690 --> 01:30:19.790
not only sort of freely, but
1404
01:30:20.250 --> 01:30:20.750
privately.
1405
01:30:22.090 --> 01:30:26.635
And, you know, watching the the sort of, like, what went on in
1406
01:30:27.195 --> 01:30:29.454
Canada with that that donation round,
1407
01:30:30.474 --> 01:30:35.710
was was really difficult to observe because, you know, what, I guess,
1408
01:30:36.250 --> 01:30:38.350
maybe us that have sort of frequented
1409
01:30:39.130 --> 01:30:41.310
the more privacy sort of chats,
1410
01:30:42.250 --> 01:30:45.575
on on Telegram and on on Twitter and the likes
1411
01:30:45.955 --> 01:30:51.415
is difficult to watch because, you know, reusing addresses, for example, is is one that is
1412
01:30:52.420 --> 01:30:55.239
is horrible to watch and, you know, easily tracks
1413
01:30:55.780 --> 01:30:56.440
on chain.
1414
01:30:57.300 --> 01:30:58.920
And, you know, not using CoinJoin,
1415
01:30:59.795 --> 01:31:03.615
regardless of whether you obtained your Bitcoin through KYC means,
1416
01:31:04.115 --> 01:31:05.175
making a donation
1417
01:31:06.035 --> 01:31:08.615
with Bitcoin, which hasn't been through CoinJoin,
1418
01:31:10.139 --> 01:31:12.560
to put a line in the sand between
1419
01:31:13.020 --> 01:31:16.080
where your Bitcoin came from and its future spending,
1420
01:31:16.620 --> 01:31:17.840
you know, future spending
1421
01:31:18.574 --> 01:31:19.074
trail.
1422
01:31:21.454 --> 01:31:22.335
You know, it's,
1423
01:31:22.974 --> 01:31:24.434
it's difficult to watch
1424
01:31:24.974 --> 01:31:27.640
people sort of screw others through,
1425
01:31:28.500 --> 01:31:31.800
through their use of not not trying to transact privately on Bitcoin.
1426
01:31:33.685 --> 01:31:35.865
1427
01:31:36.405 --> 01:31:42.185
And I think what brother Rabbit was trying to say is a bunch of influencers got caught with their freaking pants down
1428
01:31:42.700 --> 01:31:43.440
and proved,
1429
01:31:44.300 --> 01:31:48.880
you know, what they really know and what the status of things really is.
1430
01:31:49.900 --> 01:31:50.960
That was a great,
1431
01:31:51.675 --> 01:31:53.135
litmus test for
1432
01:31:53.515 --> 01:31:56.015
the current status of Bitcoin privacy,
1433
01:31:56.555 --> 01:31:58.255
and it failed, right, miserably.
1434
01:31:59.540 --> 01:32:02.920
It shows that, you know, education is extremely important.
1435
01:32:03.460 --> 01:32:04.200
And, like,
1436
01:32:04.580 --> 01:32:08.385
like what you're doing, brother Rabbit or Bitcoin QA or whoever's
1437
01:32:09.165 --> 01:32:11.665
helping, you know, write guides or teach,
1438
01:32:12.605 --> 01:32:23.070
that's the best thing we can do. Because when you look at that shit show that happened with the donations in Canada, it's very obvious we have a long way to go in proper education.
1439
01:32:26.335 --> 01:32:27.715
1440
01:32:31.135 --> 01:32:33.635
1441
01:32:35.840 --> 01:32:37.140
On a positive note,
1442
01:32:38.000 --> 01:32:39.300
as a result of that,
1443
01:32:39.760 --> 01:32:41.700
I did still dispatch 57
1444
01:32:42.160 --> 01:32:45.685
with Pavel next and coin joiner and Tony,
1445
01:32:46.225 --> 01:32:54.590
and we covered every pretty much, I like to think that everything you need to know about crowdfunding with best is taken into account in an adversarial environment.
1446
01:32:55.530 --> 01:32:57.949
So if you are thinking of crowdfunding in the future
1447
01:32:58.650 --> 01:33:00.429
and you're listening to this, you should
1448
01:33:01.155 --> 01:33:03.655
go listen to that episode 57.
1449
01:33:05.075 --> 01:33:07.895
1450
01:33:10.355 --> 01:33:12.440
if if you don't think that KYC
1451
01:33:13.139 --> 01:33:16.119
and mass chain surveillance is an attack on Bitcoin,
1452
01:33:17.219 --> 01:33:22.045
you know, you gotta check yourself. Because what better way is there to attack something
1453
01:33:22.505 --> 01:33:31.130
than to bring it into the fold, bring it into the system? Right? They can't turn it off. They can't fight it. They can't disable all the nodes and all the miners.
1454
01:33:31.590 --> 01:33:37.850
So what better way than you to need your ID and, you know, your driver's license, your passport?
1455
01:33:38.695 --> 01:33:41.755
You know, what better way to control this thing.
1456
01:33:43.094 --> 01:33:50.510
And if if everyone has to work within these walled gardens and say things like self custody become frowned upon or
1457
01:33:50.970 --> 01:33:58.605
it becomes difficult, like exchanges start asking you tons of questions about self custody coin or coin joined coin,
1458
01:34:00.445 --> 01:34:03.505
then that's gonna be their way to crack down effectively.
1459
01:34:05.210 --> 01:34:12.255
You know, you you put the privacy guys in a corner, you put the self custody guys in a corner and put pressure on them.
1460
01:34:13.455 --> 01:34:17.795
And everyone else who stays within the fold and gives up their ID,
1461
01:34:19.215 --> 01:34:25.880
1462
01:34:26.260 --> 01:34:31.725
1463
01:34:33.165 --> 01:34:35.185
you know, when when did,
1464
01:34:35.725 --> 01:34:41.400
you know, parking in Tether and having all these options to trade to stable coins and all this stuff.
1465
01:34:41.860 --> 01:34:57.970
But when did that become popular? It it happened overnight, but that's not really what Bitcoin is about. It's not about USD gains. It's not about number go up. You know, it might be for you, if that's how you treat it, you treat it just like a savings account and you never spend a sat in your life.
1466
01:34:58.590 --> 01:35:01.650
But for a lot of people, that's not what Bitcoin means.
1467
01:35:02.350 --> 01:35:05.730
And at least for all the freaks who are listening out there,
1468
01:35:06.415 --> 01:35:07.395
you know, KYC
1469
01:35:07.775 --> 01:35:10.835
is the antithesis of Bitcoin, and you should know that.
1470
01:35:12.655 --> 01:35:16.719
1471
01:35:17.679 --> 01:35:22.980
it was a little bit I was curious what you guys are gonna answer, but it's obviously an attack on Bitcoin.
1472
01:35:23.525 --> 01:35:27.065
It's a massive attack on Bitcoin, and everyone's just blissfully unaware
1473
01:35:27.844 --> 01:35:29.784
or intentionally ignorant about it.
1474
01:35:30.324 --> 01:35:32.185
And I think part of it is because
1475
01:35:34.460 --> 01:35:39.840
it's just easier to be an influencer if you just absolve yourself and everyone else of personal responsibility.
1476
01:35:40.615 --> 01:35:45.995
So I think there's an element of laziness. I think there's an element of ego. I think there's an element to monetization.
1477
01:35:46.375 --> 01:35:48.635
It's easier to monetize sheep than freemen.
1478
01:35:51.739 --> 01:35:52.139
But,
1479
01:35:52.540 --> 01:35:56.880
in in in addition to the surveillance aspects of KYC, I mean, KYC,
1480
01:35:58.335 --> 01:35:58.835
did
1481
01:35:59.215 --> 01:36:00.675
the these requirements
1482
01:36:01.455 --> 01:36:06.515
keep out a ton of people in terms of financial access. I mean, there's, there's
1483
01:36:06.940 --> 01:36:10.720
there's boatloads of people that are blocked out of the traditional financial system,
1484
01:36:11.420 --> 01:36:16.685
and they're blocked out of out of these KYC on ramps as well with Bitcoin. So it's it's
1485
01:36:18.245 --> 01:36:19.965
to me, it's always about
1486
01:36:20.685 --> 01:36:28.290
it's about financial freedom. Right? And they're just completely blocked out about from using these tools, And it's more than just onramps now.
1487
01:36:28.989 --> 01:36:32.690
It's it's tools that you use once you have Bitcoin as well.
1488
01:36:33.070 --> 01:36:37.074
Right? It's not it's not just the on and off ramps, like people like to say.
1489
01:36:37.855 --> 01:36:38.355
1490
01:36:39.135 --> 01:36:42.994
remember whenever Bitcoin used to be banking the unbanked or the underbanked?
1491
01:36:43.330 --> 01:36:47.350
Well, you know, what was that, 2014, 2015 when people used to say that?
1492
01:36:47.730 --> 01:36:53.145
You know, what happened to that? Where did that go? How are we gonna bank the unbanked and the underbanked
1493
01:36:53.525 --> 01:36:56.105
and people who don't have access to proper ID
1494
01:36:56.485 --> 01:37:02.105
and proper banking services? You know, how are we gonna get them taken care of if everything in the future is,
1495
01:37:02.710 --> 01:37:05.450
you know, strike and KYC'd up
1496
01:37:05.830 --> 01:37:09.050
and custodial? And, you know, those people are never gonna qualify.
1497
01:37:10.525 --> 01:37:13.345
1498
01:37:15.645 --> 01:37:16.865
1499
01:37:19.380 --> 01:37:19.880
explicitly,
1500
01:37:20.659 --> 01:37:25.400
you know, blocks CoinJoin usage. So it's a slippery slope where it's like
1501
01:37:26.295 --> 01:37:27.034
it's like,
1502
01:37:27.335 --> 01:37:34.395
do they technically let you do self custody? Like, yeah. But, like, if you do something on chain they don't like after you take custody,
1503
01:37:35.300 --> 01:37:38.840
they close your account and take any funds that you have in your account.
1504
01:37:39.460 --> 01:37:46.635
Yep. So so So, honestly, I think it's the device they don't make. Custody? Or they, like, is that even self custody at that point?
1505
01:37:47.255 --> 01:37:47.755
1506
01:37:48.295 --> 01:37:55.020
I mean, barely. But and, also, I see a divide just coming in general in the industry. You know, the the compliant
1507
01:37:55.720 --> 01:37:57.100
platforms and noncompliance
1508
01:37:57.480 --> 01:38:02.940
will continue to separate, and there'll be a bigger and bigger divide over time, in my opinion.
1509
01:38:09.945 --> 01:38:13.804
1510
01:38:16.730 --> 01:38:18.510
1511
01:38:18.969 --> 01:38:21.469
what is sad is that that divide manifests,
1512
01:38:22.250 --> 01:38:23.869
in within us.
1513
01:38:24.764 --> 01:38:26.545
You can clearly see how,
1514
01:38:28.045 --> 01:38:37.390
we're we're just getting between sorry for the punch line, Matt. I I don't mean it, but we're getting a split between stay humble at Stack Sats
1515
01:38:38.090 --> 01:38:44.395
and just be a defiant asshole and stack through DISC, and I don't know, spend it through, I don't know,
1516
01:38:44.775 --> 01:38:48.395
1517
01:38:49.175 --> 01:38:52.860
1518
01:38:53.239 --> 01:38:56.060
1519
01:38:56.760 --> 01:38:59.500
humble enough to realize the threat that KYC is.
1520
01:39:00.355 --> 01:39:01.335
1521
01:39:03.795 --> 01:39:08.010
But I Again, it was just I was just being playful. That's why I love you.
1522
01:39:12.650 --> 01:39:14.030
1523
01:39:14.489 --> 01:39:18.945
I I think that's one of the I mean, stay humble, stack sets is what you make of it. But
1524
01:39:19.485 --> 01:39:20.945
at least from my perspective,
1525
01:39:22.445 --> 01:39:23.105
you know,
1526
01:39:24.205 --> 01:39:25.025
like, it's
1527
01:39:25.610 --> 01:39:29.390
it's this idea that that you need to have personal responsibility.
1528
01:39:29.930 --> 01:39:34.830
There there's I think a lot of what you can see in the corruption of this space
1529
01:39:35.935 --> 01:39:47.620
over the last however many years I mean, people don't even realize, like, in 2016, like, KYC was basically nowhere, and they it just got rolled out everywhere really quick, normalized super fucking quick. People come into the space now,
1530
01:39:48.080 --> 01:39:48.740
and they,
1531
01:39:49.120 --> 01:39:54.420
you know, they they KYC, like, 8 different services. You know, they send their passport all over the place.
1532
01:39:57.615 --> 01:40:08.180
Like, you know, part of it to me is, like, be humble enough to realize that, like, when BlockFi tells you I mean, they don't even offer it anymore. But when, like, BlockFi tells you, like, you're gonna get 6% on your Bitcoin
1533
01:40:08.800 --> 01:40:15.915
and that there's, like, no risk there, that that there's a shit ton of risk and that you're just completely exposing yourself.
1534
01:40:18.615 --> 01:40:24.480
1535
01:40:24.920 --> 01:40:26.120
You've got companies like,
1536
01:40:27.160 --> 01:40:32.675
one that springs to mind is, like, Bottlepay. I mean, they they were a UK business that,
1537
01:40:34.495 --> 01:40:39.880
I I wasn't too familiar with them before they, if you like, went away and came back. But to my understanding,
1538
01:40:40.180 --> 01:40:41.880
their their intentions were good,
1539
01:40:42.820 --> 01:40:48.725
before they went away. And they went away under sort of new regulations that were brought in in the UK.
1540
01:40:49.025 --> 01:40:50.645
And they're ones that have sort
1541
01:40:51.025 --> 01:40:54.725
of taken those regular would you call it regulations, Matt? I mean,
1542
01:40:56.100 --> 01:40:56.600
taken
1543
01:40:57.140 --> 01:40:59.300
let's let's call it regulations. Take taking those
1544
01:41:01.140 --> 01:41:03.160
1545
01:41:04.020 --> 01:41:04.920
first of all,
1546
01:41:06.085 --> 01:41:08.265
I was an adviser to bottle pay
1547
01:41:08.725 --> 01:41:09.865
before they were KYC'd.
1548
01:41:12.510 --> 01:41:14.210
And I was proud of their team
1549
01:41:14.750 --> 01:41:15.250
when
1550
01:41:15.950 --> 01:41:17.730
so what happened was the FCA,
1551
01:41:18.030 --> 01:41:23.455
which is, like, the British FinCEN or whatever, the financial regulator came in and hit them with KYC.
1552
01:41:24.635 --> 01:41:27.535
But, like, new regs came out very strict.
1553
01:41:28.875 --> 01:41:31.230
They were like, you need to KYC everybody.
1554
01:41:31.929 --> 01:41:36.909
And what they did was they completely shut down bottle pay, had everyone withdraw all their money.
1555
01:41:37.364 --> 01:41:40.824
Yeah. And then they separately launched a KYC product.
1556
01:41:41.205 --> 01:41:41.705
So
1557
01:41:42.645 --> 01:41:45.545
after that, there was a lot of fuckery that happened,
1558
01:41:45.910 --> 01:41:47.450
and they were blocking CoinJoin,
1559
01:41:47.910 --> 01:41:50.390
and there was a lot of over compliance that was happening.
1560
01:41:52.150 --> 01:41:53.850
But at least at that transition,
1561
01:41:54.285 --> 01:42:04.280
that's, you know, kind of what you wanna see. I mean, they put themselves at risk doing that. That was not, the easy move would have been shotgun KYC, and we see that all the time. Binance did shotgun KYC,
1562
01:42:04.820 --> 01:42:09.800
right, where they they onboarded people saying you didn't have to do KYC. And then after they had funds on the accounts,
1563
01:42:10.805 --> 01:42:12.985
they were like, you can't withdraw unless you do KYC.
1564
01:42:13.925 --> 01:42:24.510
1565
01:42:25.610 --> 01:42:27.390
anything of benefit to Bitcoin.
1566
01:42:28.010 --> 01:42:28.510
1567
01:42:28.855 --> 01:42:29.594
1568
01:42:30.375 --> 01:42:32.155
for the sort of morals and principles
1569
01:42:32.935 --> 01:42:35.355
mentioned mentioned above, if you like.
1570
01:42:36.500 --> 01:42:45.000
And, you know, they're they're a business that just relies on on on people, you know, DCA ing all the time and not even spending, not not using
1571
01:42:53.550 --> 01:43:01.935
been interpreted a few different ways over the years, but I think the sort of agreed upon definition is that it it is like the cash out of your wallet.
1572
01:43:02.895 --> 01:43:03.375
And,
1573
01:43:03.855 --> 01:43:05.715
you know, when you've got bottle pay,
1574
01:43:06.815 --> 01:43:07.315
refusing,
1575
01:43:08.895 --> 01:43:11.315
I think I think I think not only have they refused,
1576
01:43:11.870 --> 01:43:12.370
deposits,
1577
01:43:12.990 --> 01:43:14.450
that have have got past,
1578
01:43:15.150 --> 01:43:16.850
CoinJoin history, they've also,
1579
01:43:17.710 --> 01:43:20.450
and I may stand corrected on this, but they they've also,
1580
01:43:21.695 --> 01:43:24.595
pulled up, customers that have withdrawn
1581
01:43:24.975 --> 01:43:26.675
and then coin joined their funds.
1582
01:43:27.135 --> 01:43:46.135
1583
01:43:46.780 --> 01:43:58.045
1584
01:43:59.305 --> 01:44:01.324
even even though you might have had to KYC
1585
01:44:01.705 --> 01:44:02.320
for that,
1586
01:44:02.880 --> 01:44:18.125
for that service or whatever, so they they they already didn't care about your privacy. But talking about your future spending habits or any any future any any any habits you, you know, you or any sort of privacy you want to take back when when spending, you know, they don't give a shit. So,
1587
01:44:20.520 --> 01:44:21.660
although KYC
1588
01:44:22.040 --> 01:44:25.980
no KYC is more is more difficult and, you know, we we try to
1589
01:44:27.255 --> 01:44:31.035
champion it as much as we can. We try to provide people with the information
1590
01:44:31.655 --> 01:44:32.715
as best we can.
1591
01:44:33.175 --> 01:44:41.119
These sort of services are sort of falling by the waistline. In fact, I I tried out a new, a new, no KYC service last week,
1592
01:44:41.500 --> 01:44:42.000
Azteco.
1593
01:44:43.020 --> 01:44:43.520
Yeah.
1594
01:44:44.035 --> 01:44:49.895
Although, you know, they've been around for a a fair while. They they bought in a service through PayPoint. So,
1595
01:44:51.160 --> 01:45:00.974
it it seemed genius at the time, and I'll and I'll get to the punch line in 2 moments. But, you know, the idea was that, you go online, you create an invoice,
1596
01:45:01.275 --> 01:45:04.655
if you like. You can either do it on chain or on lightning.
1597
01:45:05.915 --> 01:45:09.180
You enter in an email address, so you could use, like, an email alias,
1598
01:45:09.740 --> 01:45:13.360
and you turn up a a PayPoint. Now in the UK, you can pay your,
1599
01:45:13.900 --> 01:45:18.055
your gas and electric bill through PayPoint. And what it is is, you know, you walk into your,
1600
01:45:18.695 --> 01:45:21.035
sort of, corner shop if you like,
1601
01:45:21.735 --> 01:45:29.980
and you scan a barcode and, and you pay pay with your cash, your your gas and electric. So Azteco integrated with that system,
1602
01:45:31.800 --> 01:45:32.300
to,
1603
01:45:32.679 --> 01:45:39.525
pay for Bitcoin. Now all seems great, and I think it was last or it was on Saturday. I was at a meet up on Saturday, and,
1604
01:45:40.245 --> 01:45:41.385
a couple of the guys,
1605
01:45:41.845 --> 01:45:49.020
were sort of quite excited to to to hear about this new service. So I was accompanied by, I think, 4 other people to the to the corner shop
1606
01:45:49.400 --> 01:45:51.020
with my barcode in hand,
1607
01:45:51.400 --> 01:45:57.715
and got myself some no no KYC Bitcoin. But, you know, that service has has since been pulled. And,
1608
01:45:58.895 --> 01:45:59.395
and,
1609
01:45:59.770 --> 01:46:06.350
you know, it doesn't look like it's going to return, at least not sort of from the Twitter sentiment. But we can expect for
1610
01:46:06.975 --> 01:46:15.730
no KYC to, you know, continually be sort of quash, squashed, if you like. Yeah. I mean, I respect what the guys at Azteca are building,
1611
01:46:16.190 --> 01:46:20.130
1612
01:46:20.430 --> 01:46:20.930
is,
1613
01:46:22.385 --> 01:46:25.845
basically offload the regulatory burden on the individual vendors.
1614
01:46:26.225 --> 01:46:28.005
Yeah. Totally. And, ultimately,
1615
01:46:29.920 --> 01:46:31.700
individual states are gonna pressure
1616
01:46:33.120 --> 01:46:33.940
them to
1617
01:46:34.400 --> 01:46:35.780
either a centralized service.
1618
01:46:36.480 --> 01:46:45.365
So I I I I fear the unfortunate reality is that you're gonna see KYC rollout on those types of products as well. Hopefully, it takes longer.
1619
01:46:46.610 --> 01:46:48.630
One thing that was interesting this week
1620
01:46:49.250 --> 01:46:50.389
is so
1621
01:46:50.770 --> 01:46:51.989
the, you know,
1622
01:46:52.665 --> 01:46:56.205
the the US and their allies have put, like, their full weight
1623
01:46:56.665 --> 01:46:58.364
of of their financial
1624
01:46:58.745 --> 01:47:01.325
weaponry on Russia with sanctions.
1625
01:47:02.170 --> 01:47:03.310
And as a result,
1626
01:47:05.050 --> 01:47:05.550
regulated,
1627
01:47:06.650 --> 01:47:11.744
Bitcoin businesses are on the defensive because there's accusations that, you know, maybe,
1628
01:47:13.405 --> 01:47:15.184
Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies
1629
01:47:15.565 --> 01:47:19.264
are being used to evade sanctions. And as a result, what happened is,
1630
01:47:19.660 --> 01:47:23.679
you know, one of the really dark aspects of all this financial regulation
1631
01:47:23.980 --> 01:47:25.360
is that there's essentially,
1632
01:47:26.675 --> 01:47:28.295
either by law or
1633
01:47:28.995 --> 01:47:29.975
lawyer advice,
1634
01:47:31.555 --> 01:47:36.295
you have a situation where these companies can't really talk about what their policies are.
1635
01:47:38.020 --> 01:47:41.640
They never talk about them pub they very rarely talk about them publicly.
1636
01:47:42.260 --> 01:47:46.199
Even more rare is talking about exactly what their procedures are.
1637
01:47:48.014 --> 01:47:49.074
And, you know,
1638
01:47:50.014 --> 01:47:50.335
I've
1639
01:47:52.175 --> 01:47:52.995
I originally,
1640
01:47:54.370 --> 01:48:00.150
when I started working in this space, thought, you know, maybe there was a concept of, like, a best practices,
1641
01:48:01.255 --> 01:48:02.955
you know, like, the best possible
1642
01:48:04.055 --> 01:48:06.075
on ramp in spite of KYC.
1643
01:48:08.135 --> 01:48:08.635
And
1644
01:48:09.300 --> 01:48:11.160
I advised 2 companies
1645
01:48:11.860 --> 01:48:14.040
that were KYC onramps.
1646
01:48:15.060 --> 01:48:18.345
Disclosed them early and often, They're bottle pay and,
1647
01:48:19.205 --> 01:48:19.705
Swan,
1648
01:48:20.885 --> 01:48:21.785
both prelaunch.
1649
01:48:22.325 --> 01:48:30.430
Bottle pay started at non KYC. Swan was always KYC, but I saw a lot of, like, the behind the scenes shit that people don't see, and that is never talked about.
1650
01:48:31.290 --> 01:48:33.150
And I've since, you know,
1651
01:48:33.610 --> 01:48:34.510
do not think
1652
01:48:36.014 --> 01:48:37.315
it's it's productive
1653
01:48:37.855 --> 01:48:40.514
for me to spend my time doing that,
1654
01:48:42.094 --> 01:48:44.114
and better to focus on
1655
01:48:45.480 --> 01:48:47.660
on supporting open source projects, supporting
1656
01:48:48.520 --> 01:48:52.620
free education to people so that they can make their own decisions and their own assessments.
1657
01:48:53.115 --> 01:48:59.455
But one thing that is really interesting here this last week is because these Bitcoin exchanges were put on the defensive,
1658
01:48:59.915 --> 01:49:04.389
they're going above and beyond to kind of explain what their processes are.
1659
01:49:04.849 --> 01:49:09.190
And we had Brett Harrison, who I believe is the CEO of FTX.
1660
01:49:10.050 --> 01:49:11.110
He had this thread
1661
01:49:11.735 --> 01:49:13.675
that he put out 2 days ago,
1662
01:49:14.615 --> 01:49:16.155
and he outlined basically,
1663
01:49:16.775 --> 01:49:21.115
like, their entire process. And I just wanna just read it real quickly.
1664
01:49:22.990 --> 01:49:34.784
We collect identifying information of every user, including name, date of birth, phone number, Social Security number, and photo ID. We cross check this info against government databases to ensure veracity,
1665
01:49:35.485 --> 01:49:37.744
name matches, Social Security number, etcetera.
1666
01:49:38.170 --> 01:50:14.290
If we can't verify an an identity, that user is rejected and prohibited from trading. If a user's identity is fully verified, we then check the name against all sanctions list and watch list, including treasury's OFAC list, DOJ's FBI wanted list, and the UN's consolidated sanction list. If found, the user is rejected and prohibited from trading. We monitor the user's fiat transactions if we detect a deposit coming from or a withdrawal going to a sanctioned bank or other blacklisted source, we block the user's activity. We monitor the user's crypto deposits withdrawals using on chain risk analysis and transaction monitoring tools, such
1667
01:50:15.550 --> 01:50:20.610
as blank surveillance tools. We use the same transaction monitoring tools that government agencies use.
1668
01:50:20.995 --> 01:50:29.735
These tools have databases of known sanctioned addresses, heuristics that determine geographic locations, and machine learning algos that identify suspicious patterns and transfer histories.
1669
01:50:30.040 --> 01:50:33.739
If we detect suspicious activity, we block the user from moving assets.
1670
01:50:34.120 --> 01:50:35.580
Along with the above methods,
1671
01:50:36.760 --> 01:50:39.420
we are in continuous productive dialogue with governments,
1672
01:50:39.795 --> 01:50:43.655
regulators, and law enforcement and update our procedures based on their instruction.
1673
01:50:44.675 --> 01:50:50.630
Crypto exchanges have extremely advanced technology and effective procedures for enforcing AML and sanctions.
1674
01:50:51.090 --> 01:50:58.594
Recent public assertions that crypto is in is an effective means of evading sanctions due to lack of regulation or without factual support.
1675
01:50:58.975 --> 01:51:00.995
And then after he did that, Coinbase,
1676
01:51:02.574 --> 01:51:04.514
also released their own post
1677
01:51:05.380 --> 01:51:05.880
yesterday.
1678
01:51:07.300 --> 01:51:08.520
And in their post,
1679
01:51:09.380 --> 01:51:10.600
they said they had
1680
01:51:10.980 --> 01:51:11.960
blocked 25,000
1681
01:51:12.340 --> 01:51:13.800
addresses that were associated
1682
01:51:14.705 --> 01:51:20.005
with Russians, including some addresses that the government wasn't aware of that they then shared with the government.
1683
01:51:21.585 --> 01:51:23.685
And they said this one thing,
1684
01:51:26.760 --> 01:51:34.034
They have methods for identifying accounts held by sanctioned individuals outside of Coinbase even if we don't have direct access to their personal information.
1685
01:51:35.775 --> 01:51:37.954
I mean, we know Coinbase has their own,
1686
01:51:39.135 --> 01:51:39.635
surveillance,
1687
01:51:41.135 --> 01:51:41.635
platform
1688
01:51:42.710 --> 01:51:44.489
that they also sell to governments.
1689
01:51:45.829 --> 01:51:52.735
Through advanced blockchain analysis, we proactively identified over 1200 additional addresses potentially associated with the sanctioned individual.
1690
01:51:53.115 --> 01:51:58.015
We added it to our internal block list. We shared it with the government to further support sanctions enforcement.
1691
01:51:59.599 --> 01:52:03.219
So it was like a it it definitely turned into a little bit of, like,
1692
01:52:03.760 --> 01:52:05.539
a looking glass moment, you know.
1693
01:52:06.435 --> 01:52:10.135
1694
01:52:10.435 --> 01:52:12.215
and how automated they are.
1695
01:52:12.995 --> 01:52:14.780
You know, they these aren't people
1696
01:52:15.480 --> 01:52:18.060
individually handling accounts 1 by 1.
1697
01:52:18.440 --> 01:52:19.260
You know, they,
1698
01:52:20.280 --> 01:52:23.340
this chain analysis software is assigning risk scores,
1699
01:52:23.705 --> 01:52:24.605
and it's automatically
1700
01:52:24.985 --> 01:52:27.165
flagging users based on that.
1701
01:52:27.705 --> 01:52:29.885
And it's getting better every day,
1702
01:52:30.345 --> 01:52:31.750
and it's super important
1703
01:52:32.610 --> 01:52:42.455
to understand your adversary. Like, my one of my favorite quotes is know your enemy, know his sword, and that what you just said is very telling, and it shows you, you know, just what we're up against.
1704
01:52:44.995 --> 01:52:47.815
1705
01:52:50.599 --> 01:52:52.139
1706
01:52:52.679 --> 01:52:57.579
They're within the system. I mean, that's the only way someone could see it that way if they believe
1707
01:52:58.275 --> 01:52:59.655
in KYC AML.
1708
01:53:00.035 --> 01:53:02.535
1709
01:53:02.915 --> 01:53:05.335
1710
01:53:06.970 --> 01:53:09.630
this phenomenon that I've been noticing that it's like,
1711
01:53:11.130 --> 01:53:13.550
I'm not a pussy. Like, I don't care if you know.
1712
01:53:14.615 --> 01:53:17.595
Like, I, you know, come and take it.
1713
01:53:20.055 --> 01:53:24.130
1714
01:53:26.110 --> 01:53:26.930
It's fun
1715
01:53:27.470 --> 01:53:30.450
to larp and act like a big dog and
1716
01:53:31.185 --> 01:53:35.125
say, you know, no one's gonna take it from me. You know, I got my guns or whatever.
1717
01:53:35.585 --> 01:53:38.165
But whenever your door actually gets kicked in,
1718
01:53:38.570 --> 01:53:40.510
things go a little bit different than,
1719
01:53:41.130 --> 01:53:46.430
like, what's that famous Mike Tyson quote? Everybody's got a plan till they get punched in the face. Right? Yeah.
1720
01:53:47.655 --> 01:53:54.955
A lot of people are just either they don't live in the US and they don't have to worry about certain things, or they or they don't live in a place where
1721
01:53:55.380 --> 01:53:56.200
they have to worry,
1722
01:53:56.820 --> 01:53:59.640
or they're just naive, and they've never actually been
1723
01:54:00.100 --> 01:54:01.960
in a real situation like that.
1724
01:54:07.575 --> 01:54:09.515
1725
01:54:10.855 --> 01:54:11.355
1726
01:54:12.490 --> 01:54:17.470
I've you know, I don't wanna dox myself. And there's a lot of people too. One one time, you know, I
1727
01:54:17.930 --> 01:54:23.855
had a gun put in my face, and that changed my life. You know, it makes you take privacy extremely seriously.
1728
01:54:31.210 --> 01:54:32.989
1729
01:54:35.770 --> 01:54:38.909
1730
01:54:39.505 --> 01:54:43.605
I went on many rants already. Come on. Don't make me do it again.
1731
01:54:46.945 --> 01:54:48.910
1732
01:54:50.969 --> 01:54:55.150
1733
01:54:56.295 --> 01:54:58.555
given what what you know by now,
1734
01:54:59.495 --> 01:55:00.235
you can
1735
01:55:01.495 --> 01:55:06.170
try to decipher, try to understand, try to get on my
1736
01:55:06.950 --> 01:55:08.170
on my boots
1737
01:55:08.550 --> 01:55:09.030
as to
1738
01:55:10.390 --> 01:55:12.490
so opposed to mass adoption,
1739
01:55:13.615 --> 01:55:14.115
because
1740
01:55:14.575 --> 01:55:16.515
I I have said it, before
1741
01:55:16.895 --> 01:55:18.995
in in other spaces, in other
1742
01:55:19.375 --> 01:55:19.875
chats,
1743
01:55:21.980 --> 01:55:29.200
But I I didn't care if I buy if I bought Bitcoin back then and it was 1,000 per coin.
1744
01:55:30.295 --> 01:55:35.355
I wouldn't care if by the time I got to the other side of the border, it was 66
1745
01:55:35.975 --> 01:55:37.594
k instead of 1 k
1746
01:55:38.390 --> 01:55:41.370
Because at that exact time, at those,
1747
01:55:41.989 --> 01:55:42.890
couple days,
1748
01:55:43.989 --> 01:55:45.370
I I didn't think
1749
01:55:46.295 --> 01:55:48.395
about how many coins I was purchasing
1750
01:55:50.054 --> 01:55:52.955
or or anything else. I I just care
1751
01:55:53.710 --> 01:55:54.210
that
1752
01:55:54.590 --> 01:55:57.650
by the time I flew to my final destination,
1753
01:55:58.350 --> 01:56:00.050
I could take what was mine.
1754
01:56:01.795 --> 01:56:04.135
Be it a 100 k Satoshis
1755
01:56:04.995 --> 01:56:05.495
or
1756
01:56:05.875 --> 01:56:07.735
a 1000 Bitcoins, Fuocoins.
1757
01:56:09.239 --> 01:56:13.340
It's a matter of of protecting your capital, of becoming sovereign.
1758
01:56:14.760 --> 01:56:22.125
It's not a matter of I have however many coins and become as cocky as you can get because you're
1759
01:56:22.505 --> 01:56:23.885
so rich in USC.
1760
01:56:24.980 --> 01:56:25.960
It's more like,
1761
01:56:26.500 --> 01:56:30.360
I want to spend the coins right now to get, I don't know, a lollipop.
1762
01:56:30.660 --> 01:56:34.395
I do it. I want to spend the coins or decides
1763
01:56:34.775 --> 01:56:36.955
to buy a house, I do it.
1764
01:56:37.655 --> 01:56:41.115
It's about making the transaction they don't want you to make.
1765
01:56:41.670 --> 01:56:48.330
And beyond that, make it in a k y c freight free fashion. So it's effectively opting out.
1766
01:56:50.025 --> 01:56:51.965
It just become price agnostic.
1767
01:56:59.500 --> 01:57:04.960
1768
01:57:05.820 --> 01:57:08.000
the k y c AML info,
1769
01:57:08.915 --> 01:57:09.975
and data collection,
1770
01:57:11.475 --> 01:57:12.695
that I guess is, you know,
1771
01:57:13.395 --> 01:57:16.130
come out of the woodwork in the last week
1772
01:57:16.690 --> 01:57:17.670
because of the,
1773
01:57:18.210 --> 01:57:19.590
sort of global affairs,
1774
01:57:20.290 --> 01:57:21.590
that have been going on.
1775
01:57:22.690 --> 01:57:30.115
These are things that have already been known about in in the privacy space. You know, the the there there are already things that we're very familiar with,
1776
01:57:30.515 --> 01:57:35.175
and know that is going on, but but to have them spell out in, you know, such
1777
01:57:35.940 --> 01:57:38.520
such clear plain English, if you like,
1778
01:57:40.100 --> 01:57:45.320
does sort of hit home as to exactly what you're signing up for when you use one of these services. And
1779
01:57:48.245 --> 01:57:51.925
you sort of do ask yourself the question, well, if if I,
1780
01:57:53.060 --> 01:57:57.160
if I've if I've sort of KYC'd myself, then where do I go from here?
1781
01:57:57.540 --> 01:57:58.040
And,
1782
01:57:59.380 --> 01:58:00.520
you've got a few options,
1783
01:58:02.585 --> 01:58:10.445
but but nothing beats sort of as as I think, you know, you've you've said before, Matt, you know, sell back to the exchange and buy no KYC.
1784
01:58:12.670 --> 01:58:15.090
You know, you can hold on to your KYC Bitcoin,
1785
01:58:16.270 --> 01:58:19.170
and and put it through sort of a Whirlpool coin join,
1786
01:58:19.935 --> 01:58:25.074
But but that doesn't erase the the history that of, you know, where you've purchased it from before.
1787
01:58:26.640 --> 01:58:31.600
So I I don't I don't wanna end on, like, a an a negative note as such, but,
1788
01:58:32.720 --> 01:58:35.040
you know, it it goes back to the,
1789
01:58:35.635 --> 01:58:38.375
know, what you do today, you might regret tomorrow. And,
1790
01:58:38.995 --> 01:58:44.055
you know, you might not be screwing up today, but you could be screwing yourself in the future.
1791
01:58:44.515 --> 01:58:44.755
So
1792
01:58:45.390 --> 01:58:48.610
1793
01:58:49.710 --> 01:58:53.489
the majority of people listening to this probably, you know, have already KYC'd.
1794
01:58:53.955 --> 01:58:54.855
They have a,
1795
01:58:55.395 --> 01:58:58.535
you know, a decent stash of coin that is KYC'd.
1796
01:59:00.115 --> 01:59:03.815
What are you know, what what can they do to reduce their risk?
1797
01:59:04.340 --> 01:59:08.440
You know, how how do they proceed from here? Is all hope lost?
1798
01:59:10.260 --> 01:59:19.265
1799
01:59:19.885 --> 01:59:21.185
I'll read it out loud.
1800
01:59:21.730 --> 01:59:25.270
Somebody on Twitch asked, if it if it touched KYC,
1801
01:59:25.650 --> 01:59:31.455
consider it at least somewhat tainted even even after coinjoin, it seems. It's more of comment
1802
01:59:32.075 --> 01:59:35.935
still, just to clarify or to touch on that a little bit briefly.
1803
01:59:37.595 --> 01:59:41.590
K, CoinJoin helps your forward looking privacy, meaning
1804
01:59:42.370 --> 01:59:43.110
you can
1805
01:59:43.489 --> 01:59:46.469
acquire some level of Anonset with your UTXOs
1806
01:59:47.275 --> 01:59:47.775
moving
1807
01:59:48.235 --> 01:59:54.015
forward. But the the bottom line, the problem at hand is not your the anode set of your UTXOs.
1808
01:59:55.790 --> 01:59:57.969
The problem at hand is that your
1809
01:59:58.270 --> 01:59:58.770
identification,
1810
01:59:59.150 --> 02:00:02.610
your selfie, whatever you provided the exchange with,
1811
02:00:04.005 --> 02:00:05.465
is off the blockchain.
1812
02:00:05.845 --> 02:00:08.585
It it does not matter how many times you,
1813
02:00:08.965 --> 02:00:10.425
will pull those UTXOs,
1814
02:00:11.369 --> 02:00:13.389
that record is elsewhere,
1815
02:00:13.690 --> 02:00:16.989
and it it's it's agnostic of what happens on the blockchain.
1816
02:00:18.205 --> 02:00:19.425
So even if you,
1817
02:00:20.045 --> 02:00:22.225
coin doing some KYC or TXOs,
1818
02:00:22.685 --> 02:00:23.505
you're still
1819
02:00:25.590 --> 02:00:26.090
fucked.
1820
02:00:28.389 --> 02:00:29.610
1821
02:00:30.150 --> 02:00:30.469
that's
1822
02:00:31.349 --> 02:00:34.489
So I I mean, I would say, first of all,
1823
02:00:36.535 --> 02:00:38.635
Lion makes a good point in the chat
1824
02:00:39.335 --> 02:00:40.475
that in the future,
1825
02:00:41.255 --> 02:00:43.195
as a circular economy develops,
1826
02:00:44.280 --> 02:00:46.380
it will lessen the pain points,
1827
02:00:47.640 --> 02:00:55.105
to a degree because most people will not be buying Bitcoin. They'll be earning Bitcoin. Most people will not be selling Bitcoin. They'll be spending Bitcoin.
1828
02:00:55.725 --> 02:00:57.665
And then all of a sudden in those situations,
1829
02:00:59.485 --> 02:01:05.450
ideally, merchants are using sovereign setups, whether that's something like BTCPay or SatSale or PayNIMS,
1830
02:01:07.350 --> 02:01:10.490
or just mobile wallets without reusing addresses or,
1831
02:01:11.945 --> 02:01:13.405
like, those centralized
1832
02:01:13.785 --> 02:01:17.405
pain points that are getting regulated and that have all of these
1833
02:01:18.719 --> 02:01:22.260
surveillance measures attached to them become less important.
1834
02:01:23.280 --> 02:01:24.179
In the meantime,
1835
02:01:25.840 --> 02:01:26.900
I would say
1836
02:01:27.825 --> 02:01:29.525
I'm of the belief that
1837
02:01:30.225 --> 02:01:34.165
I I think there is there is a decent argument for selling back,
1838
02:01:34.850 --> 02:01:37.990
at the same exchange you came in with. So, like, you bought in Coinbase,
1839
02:01:38.690 --> 02:01:41.510
you know, maybe you have a coin, you sell the coin back,
1840
02:01:42.585 --> 02:01:55.449
and then you go no KYC from that point forward. And, you know, if someone thinks if someone thinks you own Bitcoin, I sold I sold the Bitcoin there, and, you know, if someone gets those KYC records, they see you bought this much, you sold this much.
1841
02:01:57.350 --> 02:01:58.170
Now that,
1842
02:01:59.005 --> 02:02:01.665
you know, adds another element in terms of,
1843
02:02:03.085 --> 02:02:09.770
you know, you might have a realized gain, then you're reporting that to the tax authorities. You're doing all this additional,
1844
02:02:12.070 --> 02:02:16.090
you you you're increasing your data footprint in a lot of ways in that situation.
1845
02:02:17.284 --> 02:02:18.585
There's no perfect answer.
1846
02:02:19.445 --> 02:02:21.145
If you coin join early, though,
1847
02:02:22.405 --> 02:02:25.545
the sooner you coin join right? So so the way these surveillance
1848
02:02:26.450 --> 02:02:31.910
firms work is it's all a probability analysis game. So, like, I can send Bitcoin to myself all day.
1849
02:02:32.610 --> 02:02:37.945
Just generate a new address, send Bitcoin to myself. You know? Brother Rabbit can send Bitcoin to himself.
1850
02:02:38.804 --> 02:02:45.390
Would the name of their game is to try and figure out when it actually changes hands. So it's not
1851
02:02:45.770 --> 02:02:56.655
me sending Bitcoin to myself, it's me sending Bitcoin to Rod and Will or me sending Bitcoin to Brother Rabbit. And they attach a probability to it, and they have tools that automate all of this, but they attach a probability to it. So
1852
02:02:57.275 --> 02:03:02.325
when you're trying to counteract them, the name of the game is to break their probability analysis, and CoinJoin is a very useful tool for using that.
1853
02:03:10.985 --> 02:03:12.925
They call it stowaway on samurai.
1854
02:03:13.865 --> 02:03:19.719
They also have these non coordinated coin joins called stonewall 2 x. You can also do,
1855
02:03:21.219 --> 02:03:26.199
fake stonewall two x's where instead of a second person, you're doing a coin join with just yourself.
1856
02:03:26.625 --> 02:03:35.500
And on chain, they it's hard to tell whether or not it's a coin join with yourself or whether it's a coin join with another person. You're breaking these probability analysis.
1857
02:03:36.120 --> 02:03:36.620
So
1858
02:03:37.800 --> 02:03:43.385
in that scheme, right, the worst thing you can do is you buy KYC, and you just hold it on an
1859
02:03:44.425 --> 02:03:47.405
exchange. The second worst thing you could do is you buy KYC,
1860
02:03:47.864 --> 02:04:03.375
and then you, like, send it to your ledger or your hardware wallet or whatever, and it just sits there in that same address and never moves because they're just assuming you did exactly what everyone else did, which is you bought KYC, and then you just hold it long term, and you're still holding it.
1861
02:04:04.315 --> 02:04:06.255
There's that middle ground there where
1862
02:04:07.275 --> 02:04:09.935
you you take that KYC coin, and you
1863
02:04:10.260 --> 02:04:13.000
you start using CoinJoin, you start practicing
1864
02:04:13.300 --> 02:04:15.400
privacy best practices going forward.
1865
02:04:16.020 --> 02:04:17.640
And as the years go by,
1866
02:04:18.235 --> 02:04:25.695
there's more and more plausible deniability on whether or not you sell that coin. I mean, there's millions of way like, the boating accident thing is ridiculous
1867
02:04:26.449 --> 02:04:28.469
and irresponsible joke in my opinion.
1868
02:04:28.929 --> 02:04:31.030
No one's gonna fucking believe a boating accident.
1869
02:04:31.730 --> 02:04:32.230
But
1870
02:04:32.770 --> 02:04:36.685
the truth of the matter is is, like, it's really hard to hold on to coin for 5 years.
1871
02:04:37.385 --> 02:04:42.605
Like, you're either spending it, you're losing it, you're getting scammed. There's, like, lots of different things that could happen.
1872
02:04:43.489 --> 02:04:49.110
So I'm of the belief that if you are KYC ed and you're not gonna go back out through the same KYC
1873
02:04:49.410 --> 02:04:49.910
exchange,
1874
02:04:50.615 --> 02:04:54.155
That coin joining sooner rather than later and learning privacy
1875
02:04:54.615 --> 02:04:59.755
best practices sooner rather than later and deleting your KYC account sooner rather than later.
1876
02:05:00.100 --> 02:05:05.400
Like, there's no trust that they're actually gonna delete your data when you delete it. But if you delete it now,
1877
02:05:05.700 --> 02:05:07.240
and then it's 8 years later,
1878
02:05:07.935 --> 02:05:10.515
you know, it's more likely that it's deleted
1879
02:05:11.055 --> 02:05:16.595
than if you don't delete it now. And it's more likely that you have plausible liability if you do do the CoinJoin now.
1880
02:05:17.130 --> 02:05:17.949
So I wouldn't
1881
02:05:18.730 --> 02:05:22.429
that's, like, my positive spin. I know it still doesn't really sound that positive.
1882
02:05:22.889 --> 02:05:32.824
1883
02:05:33.525 --> 02:05:37.230
And, you know, maybe if you're talking a massive capital gain,
1884
02:05:37.610 --> 02:05:39.949
you just need to take the hit to avoid,
1885
02:05:40.570 --> 02:05:42.670
you know, getting too hot, if you will.
1886
02:05:43.555 --> 02:05:46.935
But if you just if you only played around on KYC
1887
02:05:47.475 --> 02:05:49.175
platforms with small amounts,
1888
02:05:49.635 --> 02:05:51.955
then you're probably fine. I mean, the
1889
02:05:52.970 --> 02:05:54.750
in short, BTC noob,
1890
02:05:55.210 --> 02:06:00.430
what I would take away from this is once you coin join, from there looking forward,
1891
02:06:00.875 --> 02:06:06.094
they don't know whose coin is whose coin. They can't follow that from your original stack.
1892
02:06:06.475 --> 02:06:21.355
But they do know you have acquired that original stack. Right. And that that's the knowledge that you should be concerned about depending on if you're a big fish or a small fish and what your threat model is. They know how much you bought, when you bought it, your withdrawal addresses,
1893
02:06:22.054 --> 02:06:23.514
1894
02:06:24.215 --> 02:06:26.375
1895
02:06:26.840 --> 02:06:31.260
they have software to kinda estimate, you know, what is that coin worth now.
1896
02:06:32.360 --> 02:06:35.980
Is there a possible capital gain that they should be looking out for
1897
02:06:36.385 --> 02:06:40.805
or some kind of you know, maybe they're trying to monitor you for cashing out,
1898
02:06:41.265 --> 02:06:45.525
how you spend it. But as long as you coin join, stick to new KYC,
1899
02:06:45.985 --> 02:06:48.150
you know, you learned your lesson early on,
1900
02:06:48.530 --> 02:06:53.830
then you'll be fine, and you can opt out, escape the system, and enjoy life.
1901
02:06:55.505 --> 02:07:01.284
1902
02:07:02.304 --> 02:07:07.110
graphs, the the GIFs or the images of of the hack that
1903
02:07:07.730 --> 02:07:08.710
that they assign,
1904
02:07:09.810 --> 02:07:10.870
certain UTXO
1905
02:07:11.330 --> 02:07:12.310
with an identity,
1906
02:07:13.090 --> 02:07:13.590
and
1907
02:07:14.075 --> 02:07:16.255
they can even put a picture of your selfie
1908
02:07:16.635 --> 02:07:18.175
is attached to that UTXO.
1909
02:07:18.715 --> 02:07:20.415
So no matter how many hops,
1910
02:07:21.150 --> 02:07:27.010
your identity is going to be linked for, I don't know how many, hubs in that wallet cluster,
1911
02:07:27.390 --> 02:07:31.425
say, 5 hubs, 6 hubs. So your phase is going to be plastered
1912
02:07:31.885 --> 02:07:32.625
all over
1913
02:07:33.085 --> 02:07:34.705
even if you use it now
1914
02:07:35.085 --> 02:07:37.905
and that merchant receives it and sends it somewhere
1915
02:07:39.369 --> 02:07:40.909
for 5 or 6 transactions,
1916
02:07:41.449 --> 02:07:44.989
it's going to be your face assigned to that specific UTXO.
1917
02:07:45.530 --> 02:07:46.989
So it's like, what?
1918
02:07:50.315 --> 02:07:58.850
1919
02:07:59.710 --> 02:08:00.690
the the common
1920
02:08:00.990 --> 02:08:02.530
meme in, like, privacy,
1921
02:08:02.990 --> 02:08:04.690
not just Bitcoin privacy,
1922
02:08:05.825 --> 02:08:06.325
is
1923
02:08:06.945 --> 02:08:08.485
the average person saying,
1924
02:08:09.905 --> 02:08:15.364
I do I have I have nothing to hide, so I'm not worried. I do nothing wrong, so I have nothing to hide.
1925
02:08:16.420 --> 02:08:18.120
But that's not really the common
1926
02:08:18.900 --> 02:08:26.725
holdup that I've noticed. The common holdup that I've noticed is I'm so fucked that it's worthless for me to try and improve my situation.
1927
02:08:27.665 --> 02:08:28.485
And I think
1928
02:08:29.425 --> 02:08:34.390
it's important for people to realize that that's not the case. You can always improve yourself.
1929
02:08:35.010 --> 02:08:41.350
Now is it gonna be perfect? No. But you can you can improve yourself, and you can make progress, and you should do it
1930
02:08:41.844 --> 02:08:42.505
for yourself.
1931
02:08:43.204 --> 02:08:48.425
And at scale, if everyone is trying to improve themselves, it helps everyone together.
1932
02:08:49.710 --> 02:08:51.969
1933
02:08:52.350 --> 02:08:56.050
If you think you're ever gonna achieve that, don't even try it.
1934
02:08:56.750 --> 02:08:59.785
Just find what works for you. And even taking
1935
02:09:00.165 --> 02:09:01.465
a few small steps,
1936
02:09:01.765 --> 02:09:06.105
you know, once a month or try out a new piece of software here and there,
1937
02:09:06.885 --> 02:09:08.480
it all adds up. And
1938
02:09:09.980 --> 02:09:11.680
and people who say I'm screwed,
1939
02:09:12.140 --> 02:09:14.560
like, fuck it. Just be a nihilist.
1940
02:09:15.325 --> 02:09:15.985
You know,
1941
02:09:16.364 --> 02:09:21.185
that's that's foolish. There are solutions. There are tools, and it's getting made easier
1942
02:09:21.565 --> 02:09:24.465
every day. It's just a matter of do you care
1943
02:09:24.780 --> 02:09:25.440
or not?
1944
02:09:25.820 --> 02:09:32.060
Or even have you been made to care yet? Right? Because in the west, where we're spoiled with modern banking and
1945
02:09:32.735 --> 02:09:36.014
or we don't have as much conflict going on with our,
1946
02:09:36.414 --> 02:09:38.114
like, internally in our nation,
1947
02:09:39.934 --> 02:09:46.469
that people haven't been awoken yet. But, you know, other people are made to care about this stuff very quickly.
1948
02:09:46.850 --> 02:09:52.315
And like we've talked about on the show already, it's better to get into this stuff early than it is,
1949
02:09:52.855 --> 02:09:53.594
too late.
1950
02:09:54.054 --> 02:10:04.640
And it's not a doom and gloom thing. It's really just a matter of do you wanna be in control of your money and your data, or do you want someone else to be in control of that? It's really that simple.
1951
02:10:08.885 --> 02:10:09.625
1952
02:10:10.725 --> 02:10:11.465
So, guys,
1953
02:10:12.565 --> 02:10:14.265
we're a little over 2 hours.
1954
02:10:15.045 --> 02:10:18.079
I I really appreciate your time. I think this has been a great conversation.
1955
02:10:19.260 --> 02:10:21.920
I appreciate you all. I like to end the show
1956
02:10:22.985 --> 02:10:23.804
with some final thoughts.
1957
02:10:26.025 --> 02:10:28.525
So with that said, final thoughts, brother Rabbit.
1958
02:10:31.380 --> 02:10:36.440
1959
02:10:38.745 --> 02:10:42.125
What you said earlier, Matt, about, you know, coin joining as early as possible,
1960
02:10:43.385 --> 02:10:46.925
just to, you know, provide yourself with some forward looking privacy.
1961
02:10:48.800 --> 02:10:55.515
If you've got any questions, you're you're welcome to to jump in sort of the the Telegram chat, which is where where you'll find a a lot of people,
1962
02:10:55.975 --> 02:10:57.195
in the sort of samurai
1963
02:10:57.574 --> 02:10:58.795
and Ronin Dojo,
1964
02:10:59.335 --> 02:10:59.835
chats
1965
02:11:00.535 --> 02:11:02.074
that that care about their privacy.
1966
02:11:02.490 --> 02:11:05.610
Whether, you know, whether it be interacting on Bitcoin or,
1967
02:11:06.410 --> 02:11:09.710
as you know, often a lot of people in there that ask about setting up,
1968
02:11:10.305 --> 02:11:11.125
your routers
1969
02:11:11.585 --> 02:11:15.365
and, you know, what phones to use or what apps to use.
1970
02:11:16.145 --> 02:11:17.425
The community there is,
1971
02:11:17.985 --> 02:11:19.270
sort of second to none.
1972
02:11:20.230 --> 02:11:28.410
So if if someone can't can't answer a question, they can very often not, direct you to a guide or, another Telegram group
1973
02:11:28.875 --> 02:11:31.135
if you're if you're one of those that's got a 1,000,
1974
02:11:31.595 --> 02:11:33.615
1,000 Telegram groups that you're in.
1975
02:11:35.195 --> 02:11:39.659
But, you know, just just do the, you know, do the best you can and and follow best practices.
1976
02:11:41.159 --> 02:11:43.179
You know, it's all well sort of,
1977
02:11:44.185 --> 02:11:50.204
shouting about best practices, but actually putting them into place and taking the steps to better your own privacy.
1978
02:11:51.304 --> 02:12:00.830
And it feels good, really. You know? Once you've once you've taken a few steps, even if it's just to sort of get off Google or, start using your own node,
1979
02:12:02.555 --> 02:12:04.415
You know, every little step counts,
1980
02:12:05.515 --> 02:12:06.815
and it gets easier.
1981
02:12:07.675 --> 02:12:09.295
1982
02:12:09.675 --> 02:12:11.215
Guerra, final thoughts.
1983
02:12:12.200 --> 02:12:12.700
1984
02:12:13.720 --> 02:12:14.700
Mainly just
1985
02:12:15.240 --> 02:12:18.060
run a node, make every spin a coin join,
1986
02:12:18.895 --> 02:12:21.475
engrave your seeds and steal, do your own custody.
1987
02:12:22.655 --> 02:12:27.074
All you freaks are in the right spot. You know, keep listening to Matt. And
1988
02:12:27.920 --> 02:12:31.139
in a few simple steps, I think everybody can get off of Google,
1989
02:12:31.679 --> 02:12:33.300
take control of their own funds,
1990
02:12:33.760 --> 02:12:37.219
and really not need anybody. Be totally self sufficient
1991
02:12:38.054 --> 02:12:40.715
and cut out all the 3rd party service,
1992
02:12:41.655 --> 02:12:43.594
surveillance bullshit from their lives.
1993
02:12:44.135 --> 02:12:48.430
And like you guys are saying, it's one step at a time. It doesn't happen overnight.
1994
02:12:48.890 --> 02:12:52.270
But man, it feels good when you finally delete that Gmail,
1995
02:12:52.810 --> 02:12:54.270
delete that Google account.
1996
02:12:55.665 --> 02:12:58.324
It it goes from hopeless to hopeful
1997
02:12:58.705 --> 02:12:59.764
and very quickly.
1998
02:13:00.385 --> 02:13:03.284
1999
02:13:04.020 --> 02:13:06.120
I mean, we didn't talk about it earlier, but,
2000
02:13:07.060 --> 02:13:13.080
me and Guero were kicking out, like, 2 in the morning at Bitblock, boom, and that was a great fucking conversation that none of you will ever hear.
2001
02:13:14.025 --> 02:13:15.244
2002
02:13:16.505 --> 02:13:17.804
2003
02:13:19.304 --> 02:13:20.425
2004
02:13:20.830 --> 02:13:24.050
thanks for having me on. Thanks for the time and space.
2005
02:13:25.230 --> 02:13:30.050
Personally, I could I could speak for myself here. I I revived. I resurrected
2006
02:13:30.875 --> 02:13:31.855
yearly dispatch.
2007
02:13:33.035 --> 02:13:38.015
It was just laid back, open mic. I had some alcohol. I I spoke my mind.
2008
02:13:38.475 --> 02:13:39.295
No filters.
2009
02:13:40.300 --> 02:13:42.320
I appreciate it all. And
2010
02:13:42.940 --> 02:13:44.880
more more of, on topic,
2011
02:13:45.660 --> 02:13:49.215
privacy at the end of the day, it's gray. It's not black and white.
2012
02:13:49.775 --> 02:13:52.835
You don't go from 0 to a100 so quickly.
2013
02:13:53.775 --> 02:13:59.420
Just keep iterating. Keep doing your own research. Keep tinkering. That's the most important thing.
2014
02:13:59.800 --> 02:14:03.340
And keep asking questions whenever it's it feels like it's required.
2015
02:14:04.135 --> 02:14:04.635
Cheers.
2016
02:14:05.735 --> 02:14:08.074
2017
02:14:08.855 --> 02:14:10.875
I'm gonna see you in Miami as well. Right?
2018
02:14:11.780 --> 02:14:23.045
I hope so. I'm still on the fence. I don't know. I I'll I'll think about it. Okay. Well, let me know. Hopefully, we'll kick it. If not, then we'll, I'm sure we'll kick it again in person soon. For sure. For sure.
2019
02:14:24.225 --> 02:14:26.165
Just huge shout out to our guests,
2020
02:14:27.425 --> 02:14:28.325
Brother Rabbit,
2021
02:14:28.710 --> 02:14:29.530
Guero Maneda,
2022
02:14:29.989 --> 02:14:32.090
Rod and Will. Follow them on Twitter.
2023
02:14:33.429 --> 02:14:39.135
Ronan Dojo note. T. Me / Ronan Dojo note is their chat. Ronan Dojo dot io is their website.
2024
02:14:40.315 --> 02:14:48.015
I appreciate all these guys. And huge huge shout out to all the freaks who come back week after week to dispatch, especially those in our live chat.
2025
02:14:48.600 --> 02:14:50.300
You guys make this show unique,
2026
02:14:51.560 --> 02:14:52.460
by participating.
2027
02:14:53.240 --> 02:14:53.900
It is,
2028
02:14:55.435 --> 02:14:56.315
you know, this is,
2029
02:14:56.875 --> 02:14:58.415
it was dispatch 58.
2030
02:14:59.435 --> 02:15:02.235
Like, one of the reasons I started this show is because I just
2031
02:15:03.630 --> 02:15:08.850
I felt like there was not enough conversation about important topics, and there was not enough focus on
2032
02:15:09.230 --> 02:15:11.489
all the great names that we have
2033
02:15:12.055 --> 02:15:17.595
in the space. A lot of people like video content, and that's one of the reasons why dispatch is audio only. So it's
2034
02:15:18.295 --> 02:15:19.915
a privacy friendly
2035
02:15:21.060 --> 02:15:27.160
playground for good thoughts. But at the end of the day, like, let's be honest. I mean, I just mentioned kicking it with Guero and Roden.
2036
02:15:28.485 --> 02:15:29.385
You know, consider
2037
02:15:30.165 --> 02:15:32.985
local meet ups, consider in person conversations,
2038
02:15:33.764 --> 02:15:35.465
off the record, not recorded.
2039
02:15:37.290 --> 02:15:39.390
Those are real real value lies,
2040
02:15:41.210 --> 02:15:41.610
and,
2041
02:15:42.969 --> 02:15:46.350
just keep on trucking and keep on improving. It's all about personal responsibility.
2042
02:15:47.505 --> 02:15:48.885
Cheers, guys. Thank you.
2043
02:16:47.300 --> 02:16:48.120
2044
02:16:48.660 --> 02:16:51.560
your ways, and you'll have to do
2045
02:18:17.511 --> 02:18:18.811
I'll tell you what it means.
2046
02:19:52.230 --> 02:19:53.131
2047
02:20:32.630 --> 02:20:33.689
2048
02:20:34.229 --> 02:20:37.290
I hope you found that conversation as enjoyable as I did.
2049
02:20:37.715 --> 02:20:40.375
I'll see you for a rabbit hole recap on Thursday
2050
02:20:42.354 --> 02:20:43.975
and dispatch on Tuesday.
2051
02:20:45.520 --> 02:20:48.500
I'm having rock star dev on for dispatch on Tuesday.
2052
02:20:48.880 --> 02:20:52.820
And we're gonna talk about privacy because what else do we fucking talk about on this show?
2053
02:20:54.895 --> 02:20:55.955
Also, I think
2054
02:20:56.495 --> 02:20:59.075
probably going to do an in person dispatch,
2055
02:21:01.056 --> 02:21:06.819
before the conference in Miami, the Tuesday before the conference in Miami. So stay tuned for details on that.
2056
02:21:08.000 --> 02:21:10.420
Trying to line up a venue, it should be pretty good.
2057
02:21:11.040 --> 02:21:16.006
And then, of course, you know, the open source stage is basically gonna be dispatched for the next 3 days after that.
2058
02:21:16.386 --> 02:21:18.006
Love you all. Stay humble, StackSats.
