CD164: ALEX GLEASON - TRUTH SOCIAL, NOSTR, AI, AND BITCOIN

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Transcription provided by Podhome.fm
Created: 6/13/2025 5:49:23 PM
Duration: 5195.542
Channels: 1

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Hello. Hello.

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No. Sir, it's part of a long history of people trying to create decentralized social media,

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including

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many you've never heard of and some that perhaps you have.

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Have you heard of activity pub, also called mastodon?

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Have you heard of at proto, also called blue sky?

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Or no ster, also called nostr?

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These are the big three.

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And each of them have their own unique set of strengths and weaknesses.

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But let's focus on the bigger picture.

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Wow.

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Those are some big numbers for Blue Sky and the Fediverse. But wait,

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here's the list of top social media websites and Blue Sky is

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there

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combined with Activity Pub and Noester.

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So after all of these years,

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why are we still losing?

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I heard it's because they're funding us too much.

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Yep.

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According to

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egg man ninety eight in the comment section, if they would just cut funding,

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the sheer desperation would create an innovation like no other.

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Or perhaps the reason we're losing

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is because

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nobody

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cares.

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Perhaps nobody cares.

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That would certainly explain their behavior when they jump ship from centralized platforms over hot button issues

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only to come crawling back once the dust settles.

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Another reason people say that we're losing is because of our sign up form because on Nostr, you have to use private keys. But in my opinion, Facebook sign up form has gotta be one of the worst in the world today, and yet they're still the top social media website.

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I think Noister sign up form is actually its superpower.

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Because our biggest competitor

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is actually not Twitter,

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it's

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email.

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Email, which is supposed to be decentralized

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in practice is basically just controlled by Google because all of these sites here, most people are just signing in with their Gmail account.

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But that's okay

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because Google is good. Right?

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Now you may be wondering,

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why not just redecentralize

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email?

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Well, the fact is that many have tried,

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but email

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is old.

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Email was created before the World Wide Web,

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and it was not designed with user freedom

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in mind.

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But how will Noester

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beat email?

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With robots.

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As long as they don't kill us we will harness the power of AI to create things on Noester that people actually find useful.

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Noester

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is perfectly suited for it.

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By the way, I created bridges between No stir and the other decentralized

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protocols, so I know a thing or two about how they work. And I can tell you that they're not gonna benefit from AI like we will because their integrations

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are hard and ours are easy.

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In fact, the robots are already doing it.

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Here is Chorus, a NoStar community website created with AI in four days.

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Here is a Scrabble game created in one prompt to AI.

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Here is a Notester audio experiment where people can record their voices and be heard all around the world.

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All of these and more were created with MK Stack, an AI driven template I created for my wife, MK, after I was inspired by her work on Bookster.

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Here's a site like Bookster created in one prompt to MKStack.

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The bigger picture is my new project called Stacks.

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The idea behind Stacks is that developers

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will create a stack

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and then community leaders will use the stack to create custom brand new community platforms tailored to their community.

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All you need is to dream it, believe it, and build it.

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AI

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is the biggest opportunity that we've had since the Internet itself, and it's our biggest chance ever to make people care.

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All we need is you. Thank you very much.

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Happy Bitcoin fight Friday, freaks. It's your host,

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Odell, here for another Citadel Dispatch, the interactive live show focused on actionable

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Bitcoin and Freedom Tech discussion.

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As always, dispatch is funded purely by our audience with Bitcoin donations. Thank you, Freaks, for supporting the show and keeping it ads and sponsor

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free.

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Our largest zap on podcasting two point o apps last week,

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or I guess earlier this week was from BTC's shelling point ride or die freak.

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He sent 2,100

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sats and said awesome rip.

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You can join him and other people using the Fountain Podcast wallet,

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Fountain Podcast app,

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to zap and comment on every show using Nostr.

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Also, of course, you can join us in our interactive live chat that gets streamed into the broadcast

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and is unmoderated,

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unedited.

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You are one of the hosts alongside me. That is also Nostr enabled. You can find all the links at cieldispatch.com.

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I see we already have doctor Nikamoto in the chat who zapped a thousand sats.

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Anyway, Freaks, I have a great show lined up for us today.

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It's actually the man who was in the intro clip, which is rare for me to do, but I just thought his presentation

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was a fantastic

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way to get started on today's show. We have good friend, Alex Gleeson here,

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who has a history building out Truth Social and is now focused on Nostril AI and Bitcoin.

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How's it going, Alex?

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Hello. Hello. Happy to be here. Happy Friday, the thirteenth.

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Yes. I thought it was a perfect day to have you on the show.

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Yep. I normally don't go outside. Today, I was planning to, but now I'm a little bit concerned.

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When I when I when I invited Alex on and he realized it was Friday the thirteenth, he sent me a shocked a shocked face emoji,

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and I knew it was perfect.

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Yep. Good luck, everyone.

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Alex,

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of all,

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great presentation in Oslo.

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I think your presentation style is incredibly unique, and I

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I,

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for better or for worse, go to a lot of conferences. So I always enjoy watching one of your talks, and this time I got to enjoy it from afar.

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Before we jump into

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Noster or however people wanna pronounce it, I think it's pronounced Noster.

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I'm a Noster guy myself. But I know you're you know, you can't be right about everything.

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I wanted to

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are you comfortable talking about your Truth Social days at all? Absolutely.

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So Truth Social, what how are you involved in Truth Social?

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Yeah. So I've been building stuff on the fediverse for a long time, many years.

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And one day, I got a call from a guy saying or or an email saying, hey. Can you help me put Soapbox on top of Mastodon? Soapbox was the software open source software I was developing,

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for the

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And

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so he wouldn't tell me who he was or why,

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but I had a call with him and he was, like, excited about it. And I was like, okay. I'll take a chance here. And then before I knew it, I was on Donald Trump's social media team building the new

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website for Donald Trump after he was banned off off of Twitter. And, like, it took me so long to accept that this was actually real,

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because we were, like, you know,

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like,

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hiding around in secret. We weren't allowed to tell people, like, only our closest family members knew, and even that was, like, a gray area. And in the meanwhile, I was, like, flying back and to,

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to Atlanta

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and and, like, pushing,

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like, TVs up the WeWork stairs to do investor presentations and stuff.

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And,

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I have I have fond memories of it. It feels a bit like a dream to me now,

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because,

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you know, there were it went through all of the dramas that I think you would expect that an organization like that would go through where, like, at it it was full of people that I loved,

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and then those people kind of got forced out and replaced with different people who want who had a different vision mainly around,

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advertising that they wanted to push into truth social.

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And and so once I realized that,

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you know, I wasn't gonna be able to

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do this sort of decentralized thing that that I thought would actually fix that fundamental problem there, then I had to leave and and go on something else. And that's when I jumped ship to Noister.

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Because

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to to me, like like, I wanted to solve the actual issue

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that arise from Donald Trump being banned off of Twitter. And and I felt like they weren't actually interested in solving it. They were more interested in just spinning up their own, you know, competitor under the same

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general rules of centralized platforms.

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Yeah. They wanted to be the trusted party and and control the platform.

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Exactly. Enterprise

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it.

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So you were, like, actually one of the leads in the build out. Right?

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Yeah. I was one of the early people there. Because of my experience with Mastodon and the fediverse, that they they had decided to to build off of Mastodon,

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early on in the process, and then they brought me on. And I was, like, the expert on Mastodon, basically, at that point. So I had a lot of sort of say in the direction of how we would go on the technical side of things, and that led to me becoming the head of engineering at the company.

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And I was sort of, like,

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you know, crossing this dream between

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teams, building the apps on on Android and iOS and on on web. And I was also leading the web interface because the web interface on Truth Social Now is based on

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Soapbox, the product that that I built, on on Mastodon. So

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I was, like, sort of helping with with building out new API

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endpoints and and, like, connecting the teams on it.

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And Soapbox was basically,

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I mean, how would you describe it? It's like almost like an SDK for building your own Mastodon instances?

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Yeah. It it was like a version of Mastodon that's that's fully customizable.

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Because one thing I didn't like about Mastodon was they're like, oh, look, you can spin up all of these different communities for your own, like, little thing. You can have one in in, like,

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for your country. You can have one for your sports team. You can have one for your hobbies and interests or whatever. But but it's all this very strict

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Mastodon style template where it's this blue,

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blue gray color scheme and it has the elephant and it always says Mastodon. And you can't change the name Mastodon to say, like, my website or whatever. And I felt like that was a big missed opportunity.

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So I basically just made, like, a version of Mastodon where you can change the colors, you can change the logo, you can change the name.

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It doesn't say Soapbox anywhere in the UI.

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And so Truth Social saw that as a good starting point for them since they already decided to build off of Mastodon

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on the back end of, like, us being able to build, you know, the Donald Trump version of Mastodon.

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Right.

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So, I mean, since then, it's it's

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become the most valuable Mastodon instance of all time.

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I think I mean, the stock that owns it, DJT, which is his initials,

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is worth 5 and a half billion dollars. Do you own any do you own a d j t stock?

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I don't, unfortunately.

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I don't think that anyone really does that that was promised that they would that they would. They kind of they got cut out of the deal. You're fired.

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So

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it's about what you would expect from a Donald Trump organization, you know.

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Yeah.

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Anyway,

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okay. Well, thanks for giving us the history lesson there. I think it's fascinating.

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I,

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before we continue, huge shout out to Mav 21, rider die freaks, and 10,000 sats. Pau Pauley sent 2,100

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sats. Thank you guys for supporting the show.

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I think it's,

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one thing he does deserve a bit of credit for is that he is

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pretty militant about only posting to truth social.

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That's true.

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I thought I mean, I think it it was a fascinating,

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it was a fascinating

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case study on

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the

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the current status of social

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in

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society,

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the Elon versus Trump war, where Elon was tweeting

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on x and Trump was responding on truth social

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and this is a cross platform like, a cross platform war.

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Damn. Isn't it a shame that they can't be linked together by some sort of

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protocol?

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That sucks.

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Well, that's what we'll be talking about today. So, I mean,

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I think an interesting part

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here is so let's dive in real quick

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on what you because you're

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it's it's a weird dynamic

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where it's almost been harder for

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me to convince someone who has already switched to Mastodon to try out Nasr

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than someone who has never never used Mastodon. Like, they're they're just most they they have never used a federated protocol. They've only used a completely centralized platform. It's a good point.

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So what what what made you move? Like, what are the specifics

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about the differences between like, what were the failings of Mastodon that you think Nasr,

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fixes or mitigates Yeah. So

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So it it's futile, basically, on Mastodon. You have, like, lords landlords, basically.

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And so you have to kind of buy into this system of being a renter

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of, like,

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a apartment complex as a user.

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And and,

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like, that that's not really freedom to me. In in many cases, that's actually worse because at least with big centralized, like, big tech evil platforms, you kinda know what you're getting yourself into.

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And probably

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the the people in charge of that aren't gonna be coming after you on a personal level.

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But on Mastodon,

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like, the way it works is you have to you have to choose a server. Right? And this this is already, like, a major issue because it's like it's like the psych psychology thing of there being too many items on the menu and that making people not be able to choose.

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And and so

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you you choose. And then once you choose, it's permanent. You're stuck there.

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And somebody else owns that too. You don't own that. So you're just basically attaching yourself to somebody else's, like, property.

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And then

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you your account is just at the whims of that person forever.

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And you there are, like, there are ways to move your account, but

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they're really, like, an afterthought and not deeply integrated into their protocol, and they don't work very well.

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So

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And the key is you you lose your social graph in that situation.

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Exactly. You lose everything. And and and, like and you you you need permission to move too.

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Yeah. So so so, like, if you if you're in an adversarial relationship with your landlord,

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which is very likely in the Mastodon,

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situation because,

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they're not sending their best.

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Like, the the people who are running the Mastodon servers are just like, you would hope that they're, like, principled,

230
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like, freedom advocates, but they're not. They're, like, people who are are emotional.

231
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They're people who are, like, power tripping.

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And so

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you get in these situations where

234
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it's, like, it's damaging

235
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to to this decentralized

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mission and future because people just get such a bad taste in their mouth. They're like, oh, I never wanna do this again. Like, honestly, centralized is better.

237
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So

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it sucks.

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But for the people who don't have that experience so I will say if you're running your own Mastodon server, then you're not gonna have this issue because you are fully in control. It's just, like, most people aren't gonna do that. That's not gonna the mainstream is never gonna be able to do that.

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So

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so those people are are happy. And then for the for the people who are just fine sort of being beta orbiters of these people who are running the Mastodon servers, then those people are also fine too because

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they're just like,

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yes, daddy. Like, I want you to be my admin and tell me what I'm allowed and not allowed to do on social media. And and that's fine for those people too.

244
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But, you know, with Nostr,

245
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it or sorry. With Noister, it really gives people

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full control over their their identity online.

247
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And and that is so important be because,

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like,

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we've seen these issues on Mastodon where where, like, admins will just get get fed up and just delete their whole server and then, like, thousands of people are just, like, gone.

250
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And that sucks when you invest in something. You you've, like, built up your follower base,

251
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you know. You've you've, like, posted all of your content to it, and then it's just, like, someone else can just press a button to delete you off of the Internet. So,

252
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I it's not a winning strategy in the long term,

253
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and so we need something like Noister.

254
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And and I think Blue Sky has, you know is the same issues as Mastodon too and it's just that they're a little bit of better stewards about it. So people feel comfortable being in this sort of middle ground where they're on a thing like Mastodon, but the the admins aren't just, like, the worst people ever. So,

255
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yeah. But but but I think that but now they're facing kind of bigger issues with, like, governments and stuff, pressuring them to do things just like Twitter was. So so, like, I think Nostra is the only

256
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actual solution to this problem that we have right now, and we just need

257
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to get people to understand that or, you know, just wait

258
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and then something will happen that will cause them to understand it.

259
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I mean, and the other piece too is

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is with with Mastodon

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is you're

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you're not only,

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it's it's not you're not only beholden to malicious

264
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instance operators, but also, like, something could happen to like, it's it's it's very burdensome to run instance. Oh, yeah. And I think there was a story

265
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where there was, like, a

266
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a gay focused instance and, like, their domain got cut and then just everyone got absolutely screwed. It it masked it on it it was, like oh, I don't I don't know if this was the same one, but but there was a .af. It was, like, masked on that a f or something that was actually,

267
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like, the acronym, like, as fuck. Right? But but it's actually a f is owned by Afghanistan.

268
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And so, like, the the Taliban run government in Afghanistan

269
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was able to take down that server

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with, like, thousands of users on it because they they chose the wrong top level domain

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provider.

272
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Yeah. That's what it was. It was it was gay.af,

273
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I think. Yeah. Yeah. It was something like that.

274
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Yeah. So, I mean, that's not a scalable situation to be in. That's just,

275
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it just doesn't make sense. It's fundamentally flawed. And then so let's just really quickly

276
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I mean, you've been one of the things you started to do was,

277
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build bridges. Right? Because this is something that we hear a lot on people who are joining Nasr for the time. Let me just see,

278
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you know, the most interesting Twitter accounts or let me like, I mean, one of the most useful accounts that I find on Nasr

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is,

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the mirror that you have of Donald Trump's Truth Social.

281
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And so you started to try and build bridges. And, obviously,

282
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on closed platforms, they can stop you from building bridges,

283
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which just inherently proves that they're flawed.

284
00:21:08.360 --> 00:21:13.180
Yep. I mean, they're not actually decentralized or distributed or whatever you wanna call it.

285
00:21:13.800 --> 00:21:25.985
But so you've been trying to build bridges to Blue Sky. I know you got, like, some of my posts on Blue Sky for a bit. I think it's since broken. So you're kind of familiar with how Blue Sky works in their ad proto. What what are the issues with that? Like,

286
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as someone who's, like, not really familiar with

287
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how Blue Sky works except that it just seems like it's Yeah. So from the beginning.

288
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Yeah. So so I I will say with Mastodon and BlueSky,

289
00:21:37.030 --> 00:21:55.405
they're at least incrementally better than the centralized platforms because you can at least get stuff out of it. On the centralized platform, it's like like so you need to register for a developer account, and then we might give you an API key, and then we might charge you money to use that API key. And and aside from that path, you're completely out of luck.

290
00:21:56.505 --> 00:22:02.045
And and also one of the main things that you need to create a bridge is you need the ability to generate

291
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infinite accounts on the other side of the bridge. Because, like

292
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like, we have Noister users and we want to make them appear on the other side. Right? So so, like, on Mastodon, you can you got you actually can do that. You can have a server, most of that pub. Right? That can just have a dynamic,

293
00:22:19.745 --> 00:22:26.805
route for user Yeah. I saw the Graphine account on Mastodon responded to me. I didn't know they could see my responses.

294
00:22:27.265 --> 00:22:29.205
Yeah. They can. They can. Yeah.

295
00:22:29.870 --> 00:22:31.170
And That's pretty cool.

296
00:22:31.950 --> 00:22:41.010
And and on on Blue Sky, it's a little bit more challenging because they have this system where they have this centralized server that in theory could be replaced.

297
00:22:41.975 --> 00:22:55.275
But in practice is what everything is running through. I I think that their philosophy is kind of like, the communist like, Marxist Leninist idea of the withering away of the state where, like, like, the theory is supposed to be that the communist party

298
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is going to take control of the state and then they're going to become the new state. But then they're gonna do everything the right way and then over time, the state is not gonna be needed anymore.

299
00:23:08.515 --> 00:23:11.255
Unfortunately, we've never seen that actually play out in practice.

300
00:23:11.955 --> 00:23:21.815
And and I it seems to be that that Blue Sky is taking the same approach here where they're they're just like, okay. We're just gonna take power and take control and then make everything right, and then the world isn't gonna need us anymore.

301
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So,

302
00:23:25.210 --> 00:23:27.550
so yeah. So we have we have bridges

303
00:23:28.250 --> 00:23:37.550
a a bridge to Blue Sky that is kind of functional. We can get data out. Getting data in is a lot harder because they expose all of their posts

304
00:23:37.965 --> 00:23:40.385
publicly. We can we can get stuff out of it. But,

305
00:23:41.164 --> 00:23:44.465
in terms of why it's broken right now, it's just because

306
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of the cost of hardware,

307
00:23:48.605 --> 00:23:49.105
and

308
00:23:49.405 --> 00:23:53.370
the amount of time that I would take that that it would take in order to fix it.

309
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And

310
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and so now now I have some, you know, some resources to be able to fix it, and I just need

311
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to put some time into it,

312
00:24:03.290 --> 00:24:04.350
because it's really

313
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complicated

314
00:24:05.690 --> 00:24:07.690
the way that they've built things.

315
00:24:08.570 --> 00:24:09.070
And

316
00:24:09.415 --> 00:24:12.455
and on Noister, it's it's a lot easier. So I I don't know

317
00:24:13.255 --> 00:24:22.440
You could do all of that and then they could just block, like, 99% of users from seeing any posts. Right? Exactly. So so I I was gonna say it's also, like, a matter of

318
00:24:22.840 --> 00:24:27.820
how much time is it worth spending versus the the time I would spend growing Nostril.

319
00:24:29.320 --> 00:24:39.105
And and I'm kind of a little bit more bullish on the idea of growing Nostril than fighting with trying to make Blue Sky work and, like, begging for their permission at various steps of the way.

320
00:24:39.725 --> 00:24:40.225
Okay.

321
00:24:40.525 --> 00:24:42.945
Yeah. That makes sense to me. Fuck blue sky. Anyway,

322
00:24:45.085 --> 00:24:48.705
okay. So we did that. Now I I think it would be actually,

323
00:24:50.125 --> 00:24:52.465
pretty helpful to people just as a thought exercise.

324
00:24:52.940 --> 00:24:55.920
If we want let's just say we wanted to mirror

325
00:24:57.260 --> 00:25:00.000
Elon Musk's x posts to Noster.

326
00:25:00.700 --> 00:25:04.880
Why is that a bad idea? Why like, how how difficult would that be?

327
00:25:07.105 --> 00:25:13.205
I think that it's possible to mirror one, sort of, like, how I'm mirroring one Truth Social.

328
00:25:14.705 --> 00:25:17.205
You know, Truth Social, even though it's based on Mastodon,

329
00:25:18.100 --> 00:25:27.240
they've removed all of the sort of federated features of it. So it's also basically like a centralized platform at this point. It's also basically the same issue as,

330
00:25:28.019 --> 00:25:30.965
as x. Maybe a little bit less bad. But but, like,

331
00:25:31.345 --> 00:25:35.044
I for the same reason, I'm not gonna mirror all of truth social.

332
00:25:35.345 --> 00:25:41.845
I I think that you can't really do more than, you know, a couple of x accounts because you you're gonna start hitting rate limits.

333
00:25:42.625 --> 00:25:43.684
You're gonna start,

334
00:25:45.270 --> 00:25:59.850
like, they're they're gonna start detecting your activity and blocking you. And then potentially, you're also running into legal issues for, like, violating the terms of service. And then, like, god forbid, the worst case scenario is you somehow get charged under under, like, the

335
00:26:00.705 --> 00:26:09.284
computer whatever whatever law, the one that Aaron Schwartz got hit with. And then and they're, like, accuse you of being a computer hacker accessing

336
00:26:09.664 --> 00:26:10.164
unauthorized

337
00:26:10.465 --> 00:26:11.684
systems or something.

338
00:26:12.304 --> 00:26:15.450
And it's just like, god, like, you know, actually,

339
00:26:15.990 --> 00:26:22.650
maybe it's just regular people making the choice every day to continue using this that's the problem. Like, maybe y'all should just stop

340
00:26:23.110 --> 00:26:25.130
stop giving these platforms power

341
00:26:25.590 --> 00:26:33.875
and and then, like, and then these the then the issue would be solved, you know. Like, why is it why do we have to take all these big risks,

342
00:26:35.135 --> 00:26:39.795
when it should just be an an act of realizing that that it's wrong and then convincing

343
00:26:40.630 --> 00:26:43.450
everyone around you to just move on to the thing that's right.

344
00:26:43.750 --> 00:26:44.970
You know? Yep.

345
00:26:45.350 --> 00:26:46.490
Yeah. So, I mean,

346
00:26:47.429 --> 00:26:50.890
by the way, do you, is your volume really high on your headphones?

347
00:26:53.885 --> 00:26:57.664
I hear a little bit of I hear myself I hear myself every once in a while.

348
00:26:57.965 --> 00:27:00.304
Yeah. I'll turn it down a little bit. Okay.

349
00:27:00.764 --> 00:27:02.544
Perfect. I think that's better now.

350
00:27:03.005 --> 00:27:03.505
Cool.

351
00:27:04.044 --> 00:27:08.070
But I presume you can still hear me. I can hear you. Yeah. You're good.

352
00:27:08.370 --> 00:27:08.690
I,

353
00:27:10.210 --> 00:27:15.830
so, I mean, in practice, it would be like we'd have to run a bot that's, like, manually scraping

354
00:27:16.929 --> 00:27:19.429
from the website rather than pulling from an API.

355
00:27:21.055 --> 00:27:23.635
And potentially from multiple IPs too.

356
00:27:24.095 --> 00:27:27.875
Right. Because they would see the activity and then there it'd be whack a mole, it'd be unreliable,

357
00:27:31.135 --> 00:27:37.120
and probably just more trouble than it's worth. I mean, you can also just always do the manual practice too where it's just

358
00:27:37.420 --> 00:27:41.120
like some dude is sitting there just, like, reading the web page, typing out the

359
00:27:41.660 --> 00:27:53.425
typing up. But it's ridiculous. I mean, that's that's this is the whole reason Nostra exist Is that is that the whole the the majority of the Internet is going behind walled gardens. The thing Elon did when he bought Twitter

360
00:27:53.805 --> 00:27:56.945
was put up a wall and make the wall higher and higher,

361
00:27:57.885 --> 00:28:00.385
require logins to to view content,

362
00:28:01.160 --> 00:28:02.380
lock down the API.

363
00:28:03.799 --> 00:28:06.539
And one of the main reasons for this is because

364
00:28:06.919 --> 00:28:07.740
they see

365
00:28:08.200 --> 00:28:10.620
the data as their product. They see,

366
00:28:11.320 --> 00:28:15.179
user posts as their product, and particularly in AI world,

367
00:28:16.145 --> 00:28:18.325
it's it's data that they can train

368
00:28:19.025 --> 00:28:22.485
and use in real time. One of the reasons XAI or Grok,

369
00:28:23.265 --> 00:28:26.965
is is so useful to people is because it has

370
00:28:27.345 --> 00:28:27.845
basically,

371
00:28:29.370 --> 00:28:31.150
of a fleet of human

372
00:28:32.570 --> 00:28:39.230
robots that are just feeding information into the sys into their proprietary walled garden that only they can easily access,

373
00:28:40.330 --> 00:28:44.764
that the other AIs aren't able to easily access and and leverage off of.

374
00:28:45.625 --> 00:28:51.485
And Nastr will hopefully fix this if we can scale it up and get more people involved. So, anyway,

375
00:28:51.945 --> 00:28:53.004
with all that said,

376
00:28:53.945 --> 00:28:57.884
I thought your talk was fascinating. You've recently been more focused

377
00:28:58.860 --> 00:29:00.480
on this AI intersection.

378
00:29:02.700 --> 00:29:03.200
Why

379
00:29:03.580 --> 00:29:04.080
and,

380
00:29:04.780 --> 00:29:09.600
why should like, why why do you care? Why, you know, why should people care about this?

381
00:29:09.980 --> 00:29:11.680
Yeah. So so the story is,

382
00:29:12.060 --> 00:29:21.985
you know, for the past, like, three years, I've been trying really hard to make no strings succeed, and I've been trying to solve really hard problems.

383
00:29:22.525 --> 00:29:23.025
Like,

384
00:29:23.485 --> 00:29:25.825
every day I'm banging my head against the wall, basically.

385
00:29:26.860 --> 00:29:38.235
You know, just trying to create, like, the the ideal technical solutions to these things and trying to, like, plan these, like, long term of, like, this has this can't just work for today. This has to work ten years from now.

386
00:29:40.075 --> 00:29:42.335
And and and then, like, you

387
00:29:42.635 --> 00:29:43.934
know, three months ago,

388
00:29:44.795 --> 00:29:47.615
my wife started playing around with with AI,

389
00:29:48.235 --> 00:29:51.375
and she built a Nostra site in, like, four days called Bookster.

390
00:29:52.075 --> 00:29:52.575
And

391
00:29:53.070 --> 00:30:01.169
and that just blew my fucking minds. I'm like, and you didn't even need me to build that? You just built that, like,

392
00:30:01.789 --> 00:30:03.330
completely on your own?

393
00:30:03.710 --> 00:30:04.210
And

394
00:30:05.390 --> 00:30:07.330
and I'm I'm, like, shattered,

395
00:30:07.855 --> 00:30:08.514
you know.

396
00:30:09.615 --> 00:30:18.014
I'm, like, having this major existential crisis. It's like, oh my god. The world doesn't need Alex Gleeson anymore. What am I gonna do with my life?

397
00:30:19.054 --> 00:30:22.355
And and so I'm, like, I have to confront this because,

398
00:30:22.960 --> 00:30:23.460
like,

399
00:30:24.080 --> 00:30:25.300
I wanna be useful.

400
00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:28.180
And it's it's it's honestly scary

401
00:30:28.560 --> 00:30:32.180
how fast things have moved in such a short period of time.

402
00:30:32.960 --> 00:30:40.635
And so I'm like, okay. AI or die. Like, that's it. Like, you know, I feel like we're in this this this situation now, this kind of, like,

403
00:30:41.175 --> 00:30:47.995
and and I'm I'm a little bit less concerned about it now that I've come back to reality. I'm like, okay. Everything is fine. Everything's gonna be okay. But, like,

404
00:30:48.295 --> 00:30:50.635
I think it it's it's kind of like the Internet

405
00:30:51.110 --> 00:30:51.610
was,

406
00:30:51.990 --> 00:30:53.450
back in the day where,

407
00:30:53.830 --> 00:30:54.330
like,

408
00:30:54.870 --> 00:31:02.490
you have to adopt this thing or, like, you're out because you're just not gonna be able to move as fast as the people who are

409
00:31:02.790 --> 00:31:05.210
because it's just such a world changing,

410
00:31:05.835 --> 00:31:07.054
game changing difference.

411
00:31:08.155 --> 00:31:10.095
And and I I think that

412
00:31:10.715 --> 00:31:12.495
we can do things that are extremely

413
00:31:12.955 --> 00:31:15.534
powerful with it to make no stir win.

414
00:31:16.075 --> 00:31:16.815
And so

415
00:31:17.522 --> 00:31:24.270
and and it doesn't have to be so hard anymore. You know, I I built one more hard thing. I built stacks and I created MK Stack.

416
00:31:25.049 --> 00:31:32.510
And a lot of people have been using it now. And it's been a lot of fun. I've been having more fun lately than than I've had in years.

417
00:31:34.525 --> 00:31:35.105
And and

418
00:31:35.805 --> 00:31:47.940
there's just there's so much we can do with it now that we couldn't do before. Like, we had this big dream of Nostra years ago that we're gonna integrate Nostra into everything. Like, Nostra is gonna do the other stuff. Nostra is gonna is,

419
00:31:48.659 --> 00:31:51.879
and it's all gonna be linked together and but but it was just hard.

420
00:31:52.500 --> 00:31:55.399
And now with AI, we can actually build all that stuff.

421
00:31:55.700 --> 00:32:00.360
Like, you know, I I remember years ago, Jack had had mentioned he wants a GitHub on Noister.

422
00:32:01.125 --> 00:32:06.745
And people worked really hard to get out a spec for that, and people worked hard to create these sort of,

423
00:32:07.285 --> 00:32:08.985
you know, Gnostr Git platforms.

424
00:32:10.405 --> 00:32:10.905
And

425
00:32:11.365 --> 00:32:12.505
and and so

426
00:32:13.300 --> 00:32:16.600
using that nip 34 spec, I I just was like,

427
00:32:17.700 --> 00:32:23.080
hey. Build me a nip 34 client to my MK stack template that I built.

428
00:32:23.940 --> 00:32:26.100
And now we have nostrhub.il.

429
00:32:26.100 --> 00:32:36.395
And that's a site that I spent about four days working on where you can on that site, you can create custom NIPS. You can submit your nostril apps. You can submit repositories.

430
00:32:37.415 --> 00:32:45.290
There's a DVM marketplace. There's a NIP 72 community built into it. All this shit is, like, integrated and deeply linked together,

431
00:32:46.310 --> 00:32:49.770
and this is all just a vibe coded app that is fully functional.

432
00:32:51.190 --> 00:32:52.330
And and, like

433
00:32:53.190 --> 00:32:57.845
like like, every passing thought or idea that I have at this point that

434
00:32:58.405 --> 00:33:02.745
like, years ago, I'm like, oh, no. That's too hard. That sucks. I can't do that. I'm just like,

435
00:33:03.845 --> 00:33:06.905
hey. Build this thing. And it just builds it and it works.

436
00:33:08.500 --> 00:33:14.840
And and and I think that, like I said in my speech, NoSir is better suited for this than anything else because, like

437
00:33:15.299 --> 00:33:18.919
like, other people have these tools that they're using similar to this,

438
00:33:19.380 --> 00:33:30.525
but they're struggling to get a login button. They they really are. They're they're like they're like, you know, build me this website or whatever and then it's full of mock data. And it looks like it should work, but it doesn't work.

439
00:33:31.065 --> 00:33:33.645
And that's because the thing that they're missing is Noister,

440
00:33:34.345 --> 00:33:37.885
because plugging it into, like, the these legacy web two systems,

441
00:33:38.950 --> 00:33:50.650
requires a back end and it requires all this extra work. But but Noester's design is this, like, weird alien design that sort of switches the roles of front end and back end where it, like, wants the front end it wants smart clients and dumb relays,

442
00:33:51.305 --> 00:34:00.205
and the relays are permissionless and publicly accessible without authentication. And you can just generate IDs on the client side, user IDs on the client side with keys.

443
00:34:00.505 --> 00:34:01.005
So,

444
00:34:01.305 --> 00:34:05.325
like, that's what MK stack is, is I've basically taken the lovable

445
00:34:05.705 --> 00:34:06.205
stack

446
00:34:06.590 --> 00:34:10.690
and added Noister to it and then put a context file in there. And now we have this machine

447
00:34:10.990 --> 00:34:22.395
that can just generate and pump out Noister apps. And this past month, I've been going in there and just refining the context file, adding little snippets of code in there to do things that we wanna do such as upload files to Blossom.

448
00:34:22.935 --> 00:34:27.435
So now there's just like a use Blossom hook in there that that can be called by the AI,

449
00:34:28.055 --> 00:34:35.730
and and there's just a little bit of context in the context file telling it how to do it. And so now you can be like, and let me do uploads, and it just works on the

450
00:34:36.450 --> 00:34:39.990
shot. And so, the way I've been iterating on this thing on MKStack

451
00:34:40.690 --> 00:34:44.470
is is this template that's a React, Shad c n, v t,

452
00:34:45.490 --> 00:34:46.550
Tailwinds template.

453
00:34:46.930 --> 00:34:54.135
And I just be like, build me a site like Twitter on Noister, and then it does it. And I see what it did wrong. And then whatever

454
00:34:54.515 --> 00:34:58.135
it did that I didn't like, I go back into the context file and I say,

455
00:34:58.515 --> 00:35:00.055
like, uploads, for example,

456
00:35:00.915 --> 00:35:02.819
uploading a file. To upload

457
00:35:03.119 --> 00:35:03.619
files,

458
00:35:03.920 --> 00:35:05.940
use this snippet of code right here,

459
00:35:06.640 --> 00:35:08.420
like and import this module.

460
00:35:08.799 --> 00:35:15.780
And so then I run build me a site like Twitter and make it so people can upload files. And then the time, it does it. And so

461
00:35:16.505 --> 00:35:18.445
what I'm like, my goal here

462
00:35:18.825 --> 00:35:21.005
is that you can write a single prompt,

463
00:35:21.705 --> 00:35:24.125
and it will build you what you want

464
00:35:24.425 --> 00:35:27.485
in the shot without needing to do any additional,

465
00:35:28.105 --> 00:35:29.485
like, request for changes.

466
00:35:30.505 --> 00:35:31.305
And and,

467
00:35:32.000 --> 00:35:37.680
and so we started off just doing, like, existing NIPS. Right? Like, build a site like Twitter or NIP 28.

468
00:35:38.000 --> 00:35:45.255
Build me a NIP 28 chat applications. These things all work. They work on the try. And now we're starting to move into the territory of,

469
00:35:46.375 --> 00:35:50.714
build me something that doesn't yet exist. Build me something that there's not a nip for.

470
00:35:51.095 --> 00:35:51.815
And so,

471
00:35:52.615 --> 00:35:55.515
when it has to do that, it it does a lot of things wrong.

472
00:35:55.894 --> 00:35:58.875
It it tries to use tags wrong. It queries things wrong.

473
00:35:59.270 --> 00:36:05.210
And so I've started to go back in and be like, okay. Build me a Noister platform for the farming community.

474
00:36:05.750 --> 00:36:11.609
And so it what it wants to do when I say that is it wants there to be a marketplace where people can buy and sell tractors.

475
00:36:12.385 --> 00:36:13.925
It wants there to be, like,

476
00:36:14.385 --> 00:36:20.645
it wants, there to be a feed that shows people weather conditions that are changing over time and for there to be, like, a farming,

477
00:36:21.265 --> 00:36:21.765
community

478
00:36:22.225 --> 00:36:23.845
in there. And so,

479
00:36:24.410 --> 00:36:54.349
I'm kinda just go along with what it wants to do, and I and I'm just go back into the context file, and I'm teaching it. Here's how to write Noester events the the correct way so that you can actually create a NIP for this. And now now when you say build me a Noester farming community site, it'll go and it'll it'll look at the nips and it'll say, okay. I see a NIP 15 marketplace and I see a NIP 99 classified. NIP 99 classified looks closer to what I want, but I need to make sure that I t tag it with farming so that we're only getting farming classifieds.

480
00:36:54.730 --> 00:36:58.170
And it just does all of that automatically now, and then it creates a nip.md

481
00:36:58.170 --> 00:37:02.510
document explaining that it's using nip 99 with with t tags that say farming.

482
00:37:03.130 --> 00:37:08.925
And and it it also has the ability to generate new event kinds and then document those event kinds.

483
00:37:09.225 --> 00:37:19.485
And then my goal is that there will be a simple command to also publish your NIP MD to Nostra hub so that other people who want to implement that same NIP can just refer to it by its

484
00:37:19.800 --> 00:37:21.340
Str address and say,

485
00:37:21.800 --> 00:37:25.100
you know, implement a No Str farming website using this

486
00:37:25.480 --> 00:37:29.340
NIP that this other person made on their Vibe Coded farming website.

487
00:37:29.960 --> 00:37:38.454
So there's not a NIP. It'll create a NIP. So then it'll be easier for other people. I mean, the key here the key here is when you do this stuff on open protocols,

488
00:37:38.755 --> 00:37:43.255
you just it's it's the lack of permission. There's you don't need to ask any permission of anybody.

489
00:37:43.555 --> 00:37:48.454
And you have Nasr handle the identity, the comms, and the the data.

490
00:37:48.800 --> 00:37:50.980
And then you have Bitcoin handle the payments,

491
00:37:51.280 --> 00:37:54.500
and then boom, you're off to the races without asking permission.

492
00:37:54.960 --> 00:37:55.460
Yep.

493
00:37:58.720 --> 00:37:59.220
So

494
00:38:00.560 --> 00:38:01.359
so let's just

495
00:38:03.405 --> 00:38:05.085
I guess, let's go high level

496
00:38:05.965 --> 00:38:07.345
and then we'll

497
00:38:07.805 --> 00:38:08.545
go deeper.

498
00:38:09.165 --> 00:38:09.985
High level,

499
00:38:13.165 --> 00:38:14.065
you know, there's

500
00:38:16.400 --> 00:38:20.180
some people have been more provocative than others in terms of

501
00:38:20.720 --> 00:38:21.220
what

502
00:38:22.640 --> 00:38:26.660
what this new era of of quote, unquote vibe coding means.

503
00:38:28.955 --> 00:38:30.095
Victor, who,

504
00:38:30.875 --> 00:38:34.575
has manually coded Amethyst, one of the largest,

505
00:38:36.075 --> 00:38:37.535
most popular Android,

506
00:38:38.075 --> 00:38:39.055
Nostra apps,

507
00:38:40.820 --> 00:38:43.640
has gotten very excited about this even though

508
00:38:44.580 --> 00:38:50.200
he doesn't really seem to be practicing what he preaches yet. But he thinks he's about to be obsoleted by Vibe coded apps.

509
00:38:52.820 --> 00:38:55.240
Obvious like, the three largest I think

510
00:38:56.154 --> 00:39:00.734
the maybe the four largest nostra apps, if you do Domus Primal,

511
00:39:01.755 --> 00:39:02.255
Amethyst,

512
00:39:02.795 --> 00:39:03.295
Jacajohn,

513
00:39:04.315 --> 00:39:08.494
maybe those are the four largest. Maybe they're not. But, anyway, none of them are vibe coded.

514
00:39:11.900 --> 00:39:14.640
When I look at it from just, like, a high level,

515
00:39:14.980 --> 00:39:15.480
do

516
00:39:15.820 --> 00:39:16.320
you

517
00:39:16.860 --> 00:39:18.060
do you think, like

518
00:39:19.980 --> 00:39:27.184
is there I could see how interesting tools could be built very quickly and iterated on very quickly

519
00:39:27.724 --> 00:39:29.025
with this type of,

520
00:39:30.204 --> 00:39:33.744
technology, these this type of tool set. I mean, Nostra Hub,

521
00:39:34.285 --> 00:39:36.385
like, looks like a fucking legit

522
00:39:37.710 --> 00:39:44.210
legit website. Like, it put very performant. It it works exactly like you would think it would work.

523
00:39:45.150 --> 00:39:47.810
But is there a concern there in terms of, like,

524
00:39:48.750 --> 00:39:49.810
long term maintenance,

525
00:39:50.225 --> 00:39:53.125
like, actually long term stable projects versus,

526
00:39:53.825 --> 00:39:55.125
like, kind of just, like,

527
00:39:55.745 --> 00:39:59.745
not I'm not trying to be denigrating here, but, like, hobbyist tools, you know, like, just,

528
00:40:01.265 --> 00:40:01.925
Yeah. Absolutely.

529
00:40:02.305 --> 00:40:03.685
I I mean, like,

530
00:40:04.020 --> 00:40:11.160
as the project grows, it's for sure gonna just get crushed under its own weight, but that's also kinda the same issue with,

531
00:40:11.780 --> 00:40:13.000
like, the,

532
00:40:13.540 --> 00:40:18.414
the manual code. I call it Discord coding, by the way, because Discord is the opposite of Vibe. So,

533
00:40:19.295 --> 00:40:22.515
you know, the discord coded apps also have many of the same issues

534
00:40:22.894 --> 00:40:30.434
where, like, as it grows, it starts to get crushed under its own weight. And one of the beautiful things about Noister is that it really like,

535
00:40:30.819 --> 00:40:55.215
due to the way identity works, it allows you to build many small, like, micro apps. And and this was something that people were so excited about in the earlier days of Noester, and I I just feel like it didn't really play out that well because it was so hard to do it. It's like, oh, you have these random ideas of all these various different things you wanna do, but is it really worth sitting there and taking the time to, like, code all this stuff out? And most likely, it's not gonna work very well.

536
00:40:55.835 --> 00:41:06.810
But now that we have the ability to buy code, we can just do all of that. And we can build these, like, thousands of micro apps that are interconnected, and they just work. Well, let me put it a different way. Yeah, that seems

537
00:41:07.430 --> 00:41:10.650
incredibly empowering and powerful, and I'm very excited about it.

538
00:41:11.985 --> 00:41:13.445
Let me put it a different way.

539
00:41:13.745 --> 00:41:15.205
Do you think like,

540
00:41:15.505 --> 00:41:16.965
there's one thing

541
00:41:18.065 --> 00:41:24.485
I see a random m bump in the comments. Damn. Not used to hearing Odell speaking at one x. Yeah. I've heard that in person a lot.

542
00:41:26.040 --> 00:41:26.520
I,

543
00:41:27.000 --> 00:41:30.220
feel free to come back and listen at two x later. I,

544
00:41:31.720 --> 00:41:39.480
it's one thing if I'm building, like, a chess app. I one shot a chess app. You play with people in chess. People don't really have to

545
00:41:40.205 --> 00:41:44.305
there's not, like, significant technical burden there. There's not significant user expectations.

546
00:41:44.925 --> 00:41:46.785
But do you think in five years

547
00:41:47.245 --> 00:41:48.305
or six years

548
00:41:49.325 --> 00:41:50.305
that the main

549
00:41:52.285 --> 00:41:53.665
Twitter like app

550
00:41:54.125 --> 00:41:54.865
on Nasr,

551
00:41:55.940 --> 00:42:06.599
Right? Or, like, there's, like, the almost, you know, like, the the one that is being used by the most people. Is that a one shotted is that a one shotted vibe code app, or is that a,

552
00:42:09.115 --> 00:42:11.695
you know, like, a heavily engineered maintained

553
00:42:13.195 --> 00:42:27.750
with So You know, still using LLM tools. Like, you're still using a AI tools in the actual development process and the maintenance process, but it it involves a team with humans, like, actually interacting with it on a constant basis and iterating and creating a stable,

554
00:42:29.090 --> 00:42:30.230
improving experience.

555
00:42:32.210 --> 00:42:37.030
So I won't try to predict five years. Things are changing so much, like, every week.

556
00:42:37.625 --> 00:42:53.550
But I today, I think that we could build a Twitter app like that. Would it be one shot? No. You one shot would get you something that looks really good and gives you a feed and has the right buttons on it, but you're gonna have to tell it, make the like button work, make replying work,

557
00:42:54.090 --> 00:42:55.630
fix the mobile padding,

558
00:42:56.490 --> 00:43:04.750
you know, add this feature, fix that, like, add bookmarks, add all these different things. And then it will eventually get to a point where it starts to get kind of weighty,

559
00:43:05.865 --> 00:43:06.365
and

560
00:43:06.745 --> 00:43:10.445
it you might start to see the limitations. But but I think that,

561
00:43:10.745 --> 00:43:11.245
like,

562
00:43:11.865 --> 00:43:12.925
the way that

563
00:43:13.385 --> 00:43:20.810
the new way I'm approaching software development at this point is not to try to go in and discord code these features into these,

564
00:43:21.349 --> 00:43:27.210
like, five coded apps. It's just see what are ways that I can improve my stack

565
00:43:27.589 --> 00:43:30.490
so that when I rerun these prompts,

566
00:43:30.815 --> 00:43:38.275
it'll produce a better result the time and it'll do it faster. And some of that does involve going in and manually,

567
00:43:38.895 --> 00:43:39.395
like,

568
00:43:39.695 --> 00:43:44.115
taking pieces of code and and moving that code into the stack template itself

569
00:43:44.550 --> 00:43:46.890
so that it just already has that code in there.

570
00:43:47.750 --> 00:43:50.490
And through that sort of software development

571
00:43:50.950 --> 00:43:55.930
flow, which which to me, this is like just a it's a completely new software development methodology.

572
00:43:57.110 --> 00:43:57.525
Like,

573
00:43:58.005 --> 00:44:01.464
when things get stale, you may consider just deleting and reviving

574
00:44:02.005 --> 00:44:02.904
because, like

575
00:44:03.204 --> 00:44:07.305
like, I I I kind of view it as, like, every six months, you just revibe

576
00:44:07.765 --> 00:44:08.505
the app.

577
00:44:08.885 --> 00:44:13.500
And, like, you you're improving your stack the whole time and upgrading all of your shit

578
00:44:13.900 --> 00:44:15.600
and improving the components in there.

579
00:44:16.060 --> 00:44:21.040
I could see that's how that that's power like, incredibly powerful. Right? Because you don't lose anything

580
00:44:21.500 --> 00:44:28.160
in terms of, like, the actual database that's being used, the social connections, the identities. Like, that's all separate

581
00:44:28.605 --> 00:44:29.265
and permissionless,

582
00:44:29.565 --> 00:44:30.065
obviously.

583
00:44:32.045 --> 00:44:35.505
But do you think users would be cool with that? Like, they like, I'm just

584
00:44:36.205 --> 00:44:42.090
like, I'm not talking about, like, technical users, which is basically all we have on Nasr right now. Users. I'm talking about, like,

585
00:44:42.650 --> 00:44:44.110
average Joe Boomer

586
00:44:44.410 --> 00:44:45.870
or average Joe Zoomer,

587
00:44:47.050 --> 00:44:48.430
like, signs into,

588
00:44:49.930 --> 00:44:53.630
you know, opens Amethyst on their phone, and it's just a completely

589
00:44:56.155 --> 00:45:06.895
revision stack or whatever. Is is that, like, something that you you think users get around? Is that is that a I don't know. It's a weird thing to grab to grapple with in your head.

590
00:45:07.830 --> 00:45:11.850
I'm focusing on the web, and a beautiful thing about the web is that,

591
00:45:12.230 --> 00:45:21.850
like and and these are static files too. So one thing that we have been able to do recently is make it so you can vibe code your app your app with MKStack and then publish it to Blossom.

592
00:45:22.595 --> 00:45:25.575
And and then people can just go onto a Blossom URL

593
00:45:26.035 --> 00:45:28.934
and just use the app because it's all static files.

594
00:45:29.395 --> 00:45:30.694
Right. And and so, like,

595
00:45:30.994 --> 00:45:37.095
we can publish multiple different versions. We can have the like, the version from six months ago can stay there essentially forever,

596
00:45:37.530 --> 00:45:42.830
And you can just download those files and you can run them for as long as you want forever. So if you really are To be clear

597
00:45:43.610 --> 00:45:46.990
to users, a Blossom is a nostr spec

598
00:45:47.370 --> 00:45:52.910
for data files, whether that's media or other types of data that is hashed and signed,

599
00:45:53.865 --> 00:45:59.805
so that you can make sure that it has integrity, that it hasn't been altered or changed, and you can mirror it between servers.

600
00:46:00.905 --> 00:46:06.765
So in that situation, you could actually host that stuff on Blossom and then not even have to rely on

601
00:46:07.610 --> 00:46:12.750
domains and DNS and all that stuff. Right? Exactly. The whole the whole app is on Blossom.

602
00:46:13.290 --> 00:46:18.510
It's just index HTML file with CSS and and JavaScript, basically. That's fucking awesome.

603
00:46:19.494 --> 00:46:32.474
Yeah. So so people can you know, we'll we'll have, like, way back machines of of apps where we'll be able to see, like, you know you know, Nostra Hub in 2025, Nostra Hub in 2026, Nostra Hub in 2027, and and, like,

604
00:46:33.050 --> 00:46:35.470
people can still use the old versions if they want.

605
00:46:35.850 --> 00:46:39.070
I could use, like, v 23 if I'm attached to it. Exactly.

606
00:46:39.530 --> 00:46:41.310
So users are in control here.

607
00:46:44.410 --> 00:46:44.910
Interesting.

608
00:46:46.105 --> 00:46:49.865
Okay. I don't know where I wanna go next. Okay. So get stacks.dev

609
00:46:49.865 --> 00:46:50.685
is the project,

610
00:46:51.545 --> 00:46:52.525
website. Right?

611
00:46:52.905 --> 00:46:53.405
Yeah.

612
00:46:54.345 --> 00:47:00.685
People have been very confused about stacks versus MKStack, by the way. I know. It's a hard as a Big Corner,

613
00:47:01.520 --> 00:47:04.020
horrible name. The shit corners ruined,

614
00:47:04.960 --> 00:47:05.619
the low

615
00:47:06.000 --> 00:47:10.660
stacks. I noticed I've been fighting with with some shit corners on, like, domains and stuff.

616
00:47:11.040 --> 00:47:16.485
Maybe we could maybe we could take it back. I mean, I will say when I made Sats the standard, we couldn't get any good domains

617
00:47:18.485 --> 00:47:20.745
because the SATs. So, you know, it

618
00:47:21.045 --> 00:47:22.425
it it is what it is.

619
00:47:24.805 --> 00:47:33.230
Maybe we could take it back. I think we could probably just take it back. It's an irrelevant shit coin, and most people don't know what it is. At least you didn't call it That's my feeling. At least you didn't call it Ripple.

620
00:47:35.530 --> 00:47:37.610
So get stacks.dev,

621
00:47:37.610 --> 00:47:38.830
I just signed in,

622
00:47:40.250 --> 00:47:41.790
with my nostril extension.

623
00:47:43.690 --> 00:47:46.670
So, like, what is the process for someone to actually

624
00:47:47.175 --> 00:47:57.355
can we go through what the process is for someone to actually build something using this? So so right now, you have to do it in a terminal. And that's something that we're working on changing right now.

625
00:47:57.815 --> 00:48:00.315
But the process is basically there's an install

626
00:48:00.789 --> 00:48:08.089
script that you run. You have to have Node installed already on your computer, and then you use the NPM install to get the stacks commands. And then you'll just have the stacks commands.

627
00:48:08.710 --> 00:48:16.605
And then you have to choose an AI provider. So some options include open router, paper queue, and router. All of these work.

628
00:48:17.885 --> 00:48:22.065
And once you've decided on that, then you you can clone the MKStack template,

629
00:48:22.605 --> 00:48:24.785
and then you can just and MKStack

630
00:48:25.085 --> 00:48:29.905
already comes pre configured out of the box with support for for Noister.

631
00:48:30.205 --> 00:48:32.145
So you can just say build me

632
00:48:32.760 --> 00:48:38.380
a site like Twitter, and it'll automatically build that on Noester without you even having to say the word Noester.

633
00:48:40.680 --> 00:48:41.180
And

634
00:48:41.560 --> 00:48:45.180
and so the the idea is And so what does and then what does it spit out?

635
00:48:45.924 --> 00:48:50.345
And it spits out yeah. So so then so it creates a new folder on your computer.

636
00:48:50.964 --> 00:48:58.380
And and that folder contains the template files of MKStack, which already has a lot of things set up, but it's just a blank website.

637
00:48:59.080 --> 00:49:06.780
And then it goes and it edits them and it uses components that are there to sort of assemble them on the page, including, like, the login button.

638
00:49:07.640 --> 00:49:19.684
And and then it'll go and it'll style it. It'll install custom fonts on there depending on like, if you're farmster, then it's gonna give you, like, a a something that looks like, you know, eco green farm type of vibe.

639
00:49:20.545 --> 00:49:27.530
And it's gonna it's gonna style that CSS for you automatically, and it's gonna put, you know, the components in there to make something that's functional.

640
00:49:28.310 --> 00:49:31.290
And then it'll be like, alright. I'm done. I finished it.

641
00:49:31.670 --> 00:49:35.050
And then you you open a new tab and you type npm run dev,

642
00:49:35.510 --> 00:49:43.035
and it'll give you, like, a local host URL you can click on and then you can see Farmster. You can start clicking around and log in. You can you can do stuff. It's real.

643
00:49:44.555 --> 00:49:57.750
And then if you wanna you wanna share it with people, then you can run npm run deploy, and that will upload the built files to Blossom. And that'll give you a public URL that you can share with people and say, here's, hey, guys. I just buy a code at Farmster. Check it out.

644
00:49:58.450 --> 00:50:01.589
What is that public URL? Is that you just are hosting that?

645
00:50:02.690 --> 00:50:06.470
So we're hosting no nosternosterdeploy.com.

646
00:50:07.170 --> 00:50:12.075
Okay. And that and and so it's it has a sub it's using the Noister static,

647
00:50:12.615 --> 00:50:17.275
or the the Blossom static website specification where there's a n pub in the subdomain.

648
00:50:18.295 --> 00:50:23.339
And and so it generates an n pub per project and then uploads to that to that end pub. My

649
00:50:23.640 --> 00:50:27.660
that's not my end pub. That's No. It's a project generated end pub. Yeah.

650
00:50:28.839 --> 00:50:51.760
And then and then other people can access that through the bulk of the actually like it, then I could go through the manual process of registering a domain and hosting it myself, blah blah blah. Exactly. And we we have, like, scripts in there to make it easy to use GitHub pages or GitLab pages as well. So if you just if you push the code to GitHub, then then you just have to go through, like, a simple process to get it on on git GitHub pages. And then it's free.

651
00:50:52.140 --> 00:50:56.720
It's free either way, basically. The only expense is through is through the AI provider.

652
00:50:58.540 --> 00:51:00.320
So does it matter which AI

653
00:51:00.780 --> 00:51:01.920
model you use?

654
00:51:03.075 --> 00:51:03.575
Yes.

655
00:51:04.115 --> 00:51:10.935
I mean, it must. Claude Claude is the best one in my opinion. People will fight me on that. They'll say Gemini

656
00:51:11.235 --> 00:51:14.855
or some people are, like, you know, big fans of GPT four.

657
00:51:15.475 --> 00:51:15.975
But

658
00:51:16.470 --> 00:51:19.210
but Claude is the one that's the best at tool use.

659
00:51:19.750 --> 00:51:20.250
And,

660
00:51:20.869 --> 00:51:35.845
you know, we we have options. But honestly, the thing that sucks about it most for me is that, like, these AI companies are the new big tech. Like, I I kinda think Google and Facebook are out the window right now, except Google is staying relevant by by having Gemini.

661
00:51:36.464 --> 00:51:41.924
And that's the you know, we're gonna be able to just vibe code the next Google or or Facebook.

662
00:51:42.545 --> 00:51:48.890
But but we what we what normal people can't do is is train and host AI models.

663
00:51:49.430 --> 00:51:51.050
So that's, like, our biggest

664
00:51:51.350 --> 00:51:58.490
threat to freedom in the future. I And so what what's the best open source model right now? Is it LAMA or is it or is it DeepSeek?

665
00:51:59.184 --> 00:52:01.345
Or is it something else that I'm like Neither

666
00:52:01.905 --> 00:52:06.885
I've tried both of them and neither of them worked very well for me on these projects because

667
00:52:07.345 --> 00:52:11.285
they're, like so Claude is made by Anthropic and and Anthropic

668
00:52:11.585 --> 00:52:14.400
invented the the concept of tool use.

669
00:52:14.880 --> 00:52:19.059
I'm I'm sure they're not the to try to do it, but they're they're the ones who made it actually good.

670
00:52:19.839 --> 00:52:25.059
And so tool use is what allows the AI to do things like read and write files on your computer, and to, like, run commands on your computer.

671
00:52:29.065 --> 00:52:49.700
MKStack needs in order to be able to, like, actually edit a code base and make it functional. Because because it's not just, like, editing files. It's actually running commands to it to get feedback. So it'll it'll start to, like, add and edit files, and then it'll run tests automatically. And then the test will give it feedback and tell it you've got type errors on these lines. You need to go fix those. And so,

672
00:52:50.240 --> 00:52:55.619
that's how you get a working app on the try is is that it does these these things,

673
00:52:56.480 --> 00:52:58.305
and it has this feedback loop. So

674
00:52:59.265 --> 00:53:03.925
none of the other models have really caught up to Claude in terms of tool use yet.

675
00:53:04.944 --> 00:53:14.680
And you can use Claude through something like paper queue and then you'd not you don't have to KYC or anything. You're just Exactly. You pay you pay with Bitcoin. Right?

676
00:53:14.980 --> 00:53:16.440
Yeah. Or or with Routster.

677
00:53:17.540 --> 00:53:25.000
And and those are both exciting options to me because because they they allow people to do this anonymously and to pay with Bitcoin, but

678
00:53:25.434 --> 00:53:30.015
it's kind of a band aid over the problem rather than solving the underlying

679
00:53:30.555 --> 00:53:31.055
problem.

680
00:53:31.595 --> 00:53:35.694
And so I think that's gonna be the next sort of bastion of freedom

681
00:53:35.994 --> 00:53:43.030
online is is the front lines, I should say, is trying to figure out how to combat these big AI companies.

682
00:53:43.890 --> 00:53:57.875
Because they're basically just like a layer on top of, like, the foundational model. Like, the actual model is still closed and prepared. They're kind of like, you'll you'll interface with us so that your experience will be less bad, but we still have to interface with them.

683
00:54:00.895 --> 00:54:01.635
Got it.

684
00:54:02.895 --> 00:54:03.395
Fascinating.

685
00:54:07.180 --> 00:54:11.120
I mean, so where do you see this all going? Are you is the goal to make it

686
00:54:12.220 --> 00:54:13.600
even easier than that?

687
00:54:14.300 --> 00:54:19.200
Yeah. I mean, I think that that what it means to be a developer is gonna fundamentally change.

688
00:54:19.674 --> 00:54:23.355
And I I I I you know, people will fight against this,

689
00:54:24.154 --> 00:54:27.295
but but, like, what it means to be an artist has already changed.

690
00:54:28.154 --> 00:54:35.670
And and people people are already saying if you use Photoshop, then you're not a real artist for years now. But Photoshop is just a tool.

691
00:54:36.210 --> 00:54:43.990
And, like, you know, is it the actual skill of the hands or is it, like, the ideas and the thoughts that make you an artist?

692
00:54:44.450 --> 00:54:47.510
And and so it's sort of the same question now with code

693
00:54:47.890 --> 00:54:48.710
is, like,

694
00:54:49.515 --> 00:54:50.415
you know, is

695
00:54:50.795 --> 00:54:53.775
it is it your actual skills at being able to do

696
00:54:54.155 --> 00:54:59.055
the, you know, functional thing or is it sort of the ideas that you have?

697
00:54:59.755 --> 00:55:01.855
And I I went to,

698
00:55:02.450 --> 00:55:08.310
in in Oslo, I went to the to the Munch Museum. Is that how you say it? Munch? Munch? Oh, no. Yeah.

699
00:55:08.610 --> 00:55:09.990
The Scream guy.

700
00:55:10.370 --> 00:55:10.850
He has the,

701
00:55:11.490 --> 00:55:15.345
and we saw The Scream and stuff. And and I was just thinking, you know, like,

702
00:55:16.065 --> 00:55:16.805
these guys

703
00:55:17.984 --> 00:55:19.025
in 2025

704
00:55:19.025 --> 00:55:20.325
would probably be VibeCoders.

705
00:55:21.825 --> 00:55:24.545
These, like like, Van Gogh in 2025

706
00:55:24.545 --> 00:55:25.845
probably would be a VibeCoder.

707
00:55:26.145 --> 00:55:29.365
And and probably would be making electronic music too. But,

708
00:55:30.440 --> 00:55:31.339
you know, nevertheless,

709
00:55:32.599 --> 00:55:33.900
I I I

710
00:55:34.200 --> 00:55:40.299
I think that there is an opportunity here to to change what it means to be a developer. And I'm really interested

711
00:55:40.760 --> 00:55:46.635
in that because I think a lot of people have great ideas that are and they're just held back by the fact that they don't know

712
00:55:47.015 --> 00:55:47.994
how to do it.

713
00:55:48.454 --> 00:55:49.434
And with Noister,

714
00:55:49.815 --> 00:55:54.395
we're gonna offer them the easiest path to do it that no one else can offer.

715
00:55:55.095 --> 00:55:55.595
So

716
00:55:55.895 --> 00:55:59.115
I'm excited to see, you know, things like what Derek Ross,

717
00:55:59.730 --> 00:56:01.270
has built are really exciting.

718
00:56:01.810 --> 00:56:20.375
And and I think that there there's opportunity for for people who are just like You just name dropping him because he's in the chat? Yeah. But but but also, like, you know, I'm just excited by the stuff that he's building and and and he even even Jack has started building stuff with AI now. And I think he hasn't really coded stuff in many years.

719
00:56:21.234 --> 00:56:23.655
But he his his head is full of ideas.

720
00:56:24.035 --> 00:56:25.415
And Right. And

721
00:56:26.035 --> 00:56:27.734
and so, you know,

722
00:56:28.115 --> 00:56:29.555
it's it's just it's

723
00:56:30.410 --> 00:56:36.350
I feel like we've we've been getting kind of stale with it just being these traditional developers building stuff.

724
00:56:36.890 --> 00:56:44.030
Right. And and and in many cases, traditional developers are stuck in the mindset that everything is hard and everything has to be hard. Whereas,

725
00:56:44.375 --> 00:56:46.155
like, normies are more

726
00:56:46.535 --> 00:57:00.890
wanting things to be easy, and so they're they're not telling the AI make it with this or that framework. They don't necessarily care. They just want a particular user experience, and so they're describing the user experience, and they're letting the AI take control, and they're just riding the wave.

727
00:57:01.910 --> 00:57:05.050
And and that seems to actually produce better results.

728
00:57:09.510 --> 00:57:10.330
Yeah. Fascinating.

729
00:57:11.430 --> 00:57:12.410
I had a question.

730
00:57:13.224 --> 00:57:13.724
Oh,

731
00:57:14.025 --> 00:57:16.445
so you guys have you you mentioned Jack.

732
00:57:17.945 --> 00:57:19.005
So, like, you,

733
00:57:20.185 --> 00:57:20.685
Jack,

734
00:57:22.185 --> 00:57:22.685
Raval,

735
00:57:23.464 --> 00:57:23.964
Cali,

736
00:57:25.065 --> 00:57:27.645
and Jeff announced a new project

737
00:57:28.850 --> 00:57:29.830
and other stuff

738
00:57:32.290 --> 00:57:35.430
Yep. That is focused on this, that is focused on,

739
00:57:35.890 --> 00:57:38.230
you know, vibe coding a better world.

740
00:57:39.650 --> 00:57:43.430
How would you, like, how would you explain that project? Like, what's the goal there?

741
00:57:44.195 --> 00:57:50.375
We're still kind of figuring it out. But but for me, my perception of it is exactly what we've talked about today.

742
00:57:51.635 --> 00:58:01.819
And it you know, this idea of other stuff that we've had for so long and no stranger never been able to fully realize, I think with the power of AI, today it can be realized.

743
00:58:02.520 --> 00:58:04.380
And I think that, you know,

744
00:58:04.920 --> 00:58:06.220
it it's almost like

745
00:58:06.599 --> 00:58:07.099
we've

746
00:58:07.480 --> 00:58:09.660
we've given up on this idea

747
00:58:09.960 --> 00:58:17.195
because it's been so hard for so long that it's like, oh, I don't know. Like, we've tried everything and nothing is is working. But but now, like,

748
00:58:17.895 --> 00:58:19.275
now the game has changed.

749
00:58:19.895 --> 00:58:21.195
So other stuff,

750
00:58:21.655 --> 00:58:22.155
like,

751
00:58:22.775 --> 00:58:24.155
you know, can be viable.

752
00:58:24.695 --> 00:58:27.195
I think it's it's it's even a winning strategy.

753
00:58:27.800 --> 00:58:31.020
Do you think it'd be is it fair to describe it as, like,

754
00:58:31.960 --> 00:58:33.980
a skunk works five coding

755
00:58:34.520 --> 00:58:35.580
lab, basically?

756
00:58:38.200 --> 00:58:41.885
So that's definitely how it was when we were building Chorus together,

757
00:58:42.345 --> 00:58:44.525
in the in the Alps of Switzerland.

758
00:58:45.785 --> 00:58:46.765
And and

759
00:58:47.785 --> 00:58:49.725
in in terms of the long term,

760
00:58:50.105 --> 00:58:53.645
it's it's kind of like we wanna build sort of,

761
00:58:54.369 --> 00:58:56.390
you know, easy onboarding

762
00:58:56.690 --> 00:59:01.910
stuff for for people to be able to get into Noister, but I think that we're gonna do that through VibeCoding.

763
00:59:03.250 --> 00:59:08.310
And and there's also some big picture problems we're trying to solve too. Like, Jeff is working on,

764
00:59:09.265 --> 00:59:10.165
getting MLS

765
00:59:10.865 --> 00:59:12.645
stuff. We're working on the GhostR.

766
00:59:13.025 --> 00:59:17.685
Okay. So I'm gonna ask you a stupid question. Like, why hasn't he one shot at good DMs for us yet?

767
00:59:17.985 --> 00:59:23.285
Yeah. So so there like, there's definitely still boundaries. Right? And and so there's things that require

768
00:59:23.820 --> 00:59:25.840
humans to push boundaries still.

769
00:59:26.220 --> 00:59:33.360
And and that's one of them. Because, like like, we're not gonna vibe code MLS. Like, Jeff and his team are gonna discord code MLS

770
00:59:33.740 --> 00:59:47.205
and then make a library in TypeScript, I think. The the then we just have a context file in the AI that says, here's how you use the MLS library, and we try to simplify that and make it so that it only has to do the most simple

771
00:59:47.585 --> 00:59:48.085
things.

772
00:59:48.385 --> 00:59:54.380
Ideally, the I the AI is just a designer that places components on the page, and those components just work already

773
00:59:54.759 --> 00:59:59.420
because humans have made them work. And and it's a similar story with Cali and Cashew.

774
01:00:00.039 --> 01:00:01.420
As we were building Chorus,

775
01:00:01.799 --> 01:00:02.859
it required

776
01:00:03.160 --> 01:00:12.795
a lot of manual Discord coding on his part to get the Cashew wallet to work because the AI just doesn't know how to do these hard things. And that's why,

777
01:00:13.255 --> 01:00:13.755
like,

778
01:00:14.295 --> 01:00:14.955
you know,

779
01:00:15.575 --> 01:00:19.675
my contribution to that project was bringing that template, the MKStack template along.

780
01:00:20.550 --> 01:00:26.330
And so that's why the template is so valuable, I think, is because you can collect these sort of discord coded

781
01:00:26.790 --> 01:00:32.010
pieces of functionality that the AI is not good at and put them into a template and then tell the robot,

782
01:00:32.470 --> 01:00:34.650
you know, you can just include this one,

783
01:00:35.445 --> 01:00:46.585
file and then put this one piece of code somewhere, and then it's just gonna work out of the box. And don't worry about trying to implement a Cashew wallet from scratch. Just worry about where you're gonna put it in the UI.

784
01:00:48.280 --> 01:00:49.500
If that makes sense.

785
01:00:49.800 --> 01:00:51.580
So, like, you need humans to

786
01:00:51.880 --> 01:00:55.000
kinda create the the fundamental building blocks at

787
01:00:55.560 --> 01:00:56.060
Yes.

788
01:00:57.960 --> 01:01:03.974
Which is, like, the same case with Nasr and Bitcoin that is getting then put in to the the toolset.

789
01:01:04.915 --> 01:01:05.415
Exactly.

790
01:01:07.315 --> 01:01:10.535
So, I mean, that kinda answers my next question, but I'm gonna ask it anyway,

791
01:01:11.075 --> 01:01:11.575
because

792
01:01:13.315 --> 01:01:15.255
I'm kinda curious for my own projects.

793
01:01:16.560 --> 01:01:17.520
Jack has also,

794
01:01:18.080 --> 01:01:19.680
contributed $10,000,000

795
01:01:19.680 --> 01:01:20.980
into this project.

796
01:01:22.800 --> 01:01:25.700
Like, what do you guys need the money for if it's

797
01:01:26.000 --> 01:01:30.180
so, like, what is the money gonna be used for if you're just one shotting things left and right?

798
01:01:30.845 --> 01:01:32.944
So yeah. So we're hiring people.

799
01:01:33.724 --> 01:01:39.825
The goal is to kind of bring on people onto these pillars that involve sort of fundamental

800
01:01:40.125 --> 01:01:40.944
things about,

801
01:01:41.885 --> 01:01:43.505
you know, building Nasr clients.

802
01:01:44.605 --> 01:01:45.105
And,

803
01:01:45.450 --> 01:01:49.390
yeah, like, humans still for sure are are gonna need to be involved.

804
01:01:50.010 --> 01:01:51.790
Right. It's and

805
01:01:52.650 --> 01:01:53.150
but,

806
01:01:53.609 --> 01:01:57.869
like, for me, my biggest mission is sort of bridging the gap between

807
01:01:58.170 --> 01:02:00.670
AI and, like, the Nostra community.

808
01:02:01.835 --> 01:02:02.494
I want,

809
01:02:02.875 --> 01:02:12.575
like, all of the people who have ideas about stuff to be able to just do things on their own without feeling like they can't. I, like, I want people to be empowered.

810
01:02:12.954 --> 01:02:17.250
And so I see our role as being able to bridge that gap.

811
01:02:18.510 --> 01:02:25.650
And and some of it does involve doing these these hard things that still need to be done such as, you know, building out MLS and and Cashew.

812
01:02:27.310 --> 01:02:28.930
Yeah. I mean, so, like, Ravel,

813
01:02:30.954 --> 01:02:31.454
another,

814
01:02:31.915 --> 01:02:32.575
you know,

815
01:02:33.035 --> 01:02:34.974
legendary contributor to Noster.

816
01:02:36.234 --> 01:02:43.694
It is amazing how few users we have, but our contributors are so strong as hell. He was on he did an interview with Nifty

817
01:02:43.994 --> 01:02:44.815
from Oslo,

818
01:02:45.960 --> 01:02:47.020
and he said,

819
01:02:47.640 --> 01:02:55.980
and it's not a direct quote. He said something like, you know, 10,000,000 doesn't go as far as you think it does. Am I not wrong to think, like, it goes way farther now

820
01:02:56.520 --> 01:02:58.940
that because of this because of this tooling?

821
01:02:59.565 --> 01:03:03.105
I mean, so much has changed in the past three months,

822
01:03:04.285 --> 01:03:04.785
that

823
01:03:05.085 --> 01:03:09.505
I think that it's definitely changing how we're thinking about approaching the situation.

824
01:03:11.255 --> 01:03:11.755
Because

825
01:03:12.900 --> 01:03:26.205
definitely, like, when we started talking about the situation, I didn't even know as as much as I know about AI now. And so Right. Like, I I feel like that's a problem with everybody right now. Like like, I have people on my team who are, like, junior developers,

826
01:03:26.744 --> 01:03:30.445
and we're trying to figure out what's your career path now. Right?

827
01:03:31.145 --> 01:03:37.464
Because, like What is it? Like, was that a har was that a horrible advice when it went viral, like, five years ago for people to learn to code? Or

828
01:03:38.270 --> 01:03:43.170
I don't think so. But but but I think that right now, things are changing

829
01:03:44.030 --> 01:03:45.490
to where, like, like

830
01:03:46.349 --> 01:03:50.130
like so I have this mentorship team. Right? It's like young developers,

831
01:03:50.589 --> 01:03:52.369
who I'm sort of training to,

832
01:03:53.705 --> 01:03:56.045
to do code. And my

833
01:03:56.505 --> 01:03:58.745
this started, like, a a year or two ago.

834
01:03:59.225 --> 01:03:59.725
And

835
01:04:00.345 --> 01:04:13.619
and my approach to this is, like, okay. I'm mister Miyagi. Right? Like like, wipe on, wipe wipe off or whatever. And and that's what I'm doing the whole time. And I'm trying to, like, I'm trying to take them on the graph from, like, senior or, like, junior developer

836
01:04:14.079 --> 01:04:18.900
to, like, mid develop middle developer to to to senior developer.

837
01:04:20.184 --> 01:04:29.565
And sometimes I'm drawing the line to middle, and sometimes I'm trying to draw the line straight to senior and just, you know, push them hard to see if they can go. But but now, I'm not really trying to draw the line

838
01:04:29.865 --> 01:04:30.365
anymore.

839
01:04:30.665 --> 01:04:31.165
Like,

840
01:04:32.210 --> 01:04:35.510
I I feel like it's kind of pointless to go from junior to middle

841
01:04:36.210 --> 01:04:39.030
or, like, to senior be because, like, if anything,

842
01:04:39.650 --> 01:04:53.255
going from junior to middle seems to corrupt the minds to where it makes people when they try to prompt the AI, they start to have opinions about what they want the AI to do in this or that framework or technology or language. There was no too much.

843
01:04:53.715 --> 01:04:58.455
Yeah. Exactly. And and so that that actually seems to like it's like the IQ bell curve meme

844
01:04:58.910 --> 01:05:06.530
of, like, the the smart and the dumb are are, like, aligned, basically. And once you go into the middle, then you're, like, you're doomed because,

845
01:05:07.630 --> 01:05:09.170
it's better to know less.

846
01:05:09.870 --> 01:05:13.570
This is actually empowering in a way because this is, like, return to monkey,

847
01:05:13.935 --> 01:05:14.435
you

848
01:05:14.895 --> 01:05:15.875
know, and,

849
01:05:17.295 --> 01:05:18.015
that's it's

850
01:05:18.735 --> 01:05:19.475
the accelerationism

851
01:05:19.855 --> 01:05:21.715
has been really worrying to me,

852
01:05:22.335 --> 01:05:23.715
lately. But but

853
01:05:24.095 --> 01:05:27.235
but actually, in a in a way, it's it's almost doing the opposite.

854
01:05:28.250 --> 01:05:40.589
And but but we're still figuring out, like, what is what is the actual career path? We don't know. You know? Like like, I I've used the term senior vibe coder, but I don't think that that's it. I think that there's like, maybe prompt engineer

855
01:05:41.085 --> 01:05:41.585
is,

856
01:05:41.885 --> 01:05:43.505
like, you know, is a real thing.

857
01:05:44.125 --> 01:05:47.425
And But it's it's already a real thing in, like, the arts. Yeah. Right?

858
01:05:47.965 --> 01:05:53.505
But that that's such an easier job than being a senior developer. Being a senior developer sucks

859
01:05:53.820 --> 01:06:00.460
because because, like like, you you have no idea what my carpet looks like from pacing back and

860
01:06:01.500 --> 01:06:04.880
on it and just, like, the tread of my heels, you know. Like like,

861
01:06:05.260 --> 01:06:05.760
this,

862
01:06:07.155 --> 01:06:11.575
I've been I I've used my brain so much that that I I get headaches.

863
01:06:12.275 --> 01:06:13.895
And, it's been empowering

864
01:06:14.755 --> 01:06:23.370
in in, like, the past week or so just building Nostra hub and just just, like, not having to use that part of my brain so hard.

865
01:06:24.550 --> 01:06:29.770
And and I I feel like maybe we're actually moving towards the world that we've dreamed of where,

866
01:06:30.070 --> 01:06:30.570
like,

867
01:06:31.805 --> 01:06:35.745
you know, people people actually don't have to work as hard, like because

868
01:06:36.205 --> 01:06:38.865
there has been that promise for decades that

869
01:06:39.245 --> 01:06:40.785
we don't have to have the

870
01:06:41.085 --> 01:06:45.585
forty hour work week. We can have, like, you know, half of half of that or less.

871
01:06:47.750 --> 01:06:55.930
And and and, like, you know, the rich are taking more and the poor are just getting poorer and stuff. And but may maybe AI can change this. May maybe we can actually do stuff

872
01:06:56.390 --> 01:07:00.494
and just not have to work so hard and that that's exciting. That can be empowering.

873
01:07:00.895 --> 01:07:09.075
But maybe on on that on that note, like, how do you envision stuff like this getting monetized? Like, doesn't it just commoditize a lot of stuff?

874
01:07:09.935 --> 01:07:14.115
I think that that still you're gonna have people that just don't know anything.

875
01:07:15.130 --> 01:07:17.550
And but they but they have they wanna run a business.

876
01:07:18.410 --> 01:07:23.150
And they need, like, a consultant to come and help them run their business, someone who does know AI.

877
01:07:23.850 --> 01:07:25.070
And and so,

878
01:07:26.570 --> 01:07:34.585
and so I think there's still opportunities, like like, you go to the same way that I used to go to, like, pizza shops or whatever on South Street in Philadelphia

879
01:07:34.885 --> 01:07:42.425
and be like, hey. Let me build your website for you for freelance. Like, we're seeing people just do that with AI now, and they're just doing and it's easier.

880
01:07:43.605 --> 01:07:46.920
And it's more fun, And it's just better for everyone

881
01:07:47.380 --> 01:07:47.880
involved.

882
01:07:48.260 --> 01:07:51.160
And, like, it doesn't mean that you have to charge less for it. So

883
01:07:52.020 --> 01:07:55.720
But doesn't it? If you if you you're it's it's effectively commoditizing

884
01:07:56.100 --> 01:07:56.760
that labor.

885
01:07:57.300 --> 01:08:02.085
So, like, shouldn't it But I Shouldn't it? I also think there's skill Compress the margins?

886
01:08:03.265 --> 01:08:05.365
I think I think that that, like,

887
01:08:06.065 --> 01:08:06.805
the the

888
01:08:07.665 --> 01:08:09.285
there are definitely entire

889
01:08:09.825 --> 01:08:11.205
companies that are,

890
01:08:11.825 --> 01:08:18.679
gonna be wiped out by this. Mainly, the people who send me spam emails about trying to upgrade my WordPress site.

891
01:08:20.179 --> 01:08:26.085
But I mean, what about the big tech companies? Like, Jack's business got 12,000 employees in it. Like, what

892
01:08:26.625 --> 01:08:27.845
what do they do?

893
01:08:28.625 --> 01:08:31.685
I I think that it's definitely gonna change.

894
01:08:32.225 --> 01:08:33.685
But I think that there's still,

895
01:08:34.225 --> 01:08:38.725
like, there's still skill that you can like, the people can attain there and there's still,

896
01:08:39.330 --> 01:08:43.510
like, smart smart people are still gonna be able to succeed in life, basically.

897
01:08:45.330 --> 01:08:45.830
And

898
01:08:46.530 --> 01:08:47.030
so

899
01:08:47.490 --> 01:08:57.915
in terms of, like, the really long term bigger picture though, I I don't know if you've read that, like, AI twenty twenty seven thing that these researchers put out that basically said the robots are gonna kill us.

900
01:08:58.455 --> 01:09:01.755
And Yeah. There's, like, three different paths we can go down and

901
01:09:02.375 --> 01:09:07.995
Yeah. So so before the robots kills us. Before the robots kill us though, we create utopia.

902
01:09:08.940 --> 01:09:09.420
And,

903
01:09:09.900 --> 01:09:22.719
and I think that I think we might be headed towards that right now. And if we can just do that and then make sure that the robots don't kill us, then I think that we're gonna be we're gonna be good. We just need c three p o and not Terminator, and then we're good.

904
01:09:23.955 --> 01:09:25.974
Because the Androids are gonna be real.

905
01:09:26.435 --> 01:09:31.175
Yeah. I mean, I talked to someone who's much smarter than me and older and wiser,

906
01:09:32.195 --> 01:09:35.974
that I have a lot of respect for. And the way he described it

907
01:09:36.870 --> 01:09:37.370
was

908
01:09:38.390 --> 01:09:41.530
the humble way of looking at it is right now,

909
01:09:41.910 --> 01:09:46.170
if you were to dot plot, like, the different paths for humanity,

910
01:09:46.710 --> 01:09:55.235
like, we can go in all these different directions. So, basically, the exact opposite of what that 2027 thing was where they tried to, like, nail down on what was gonna happen because it's more provocative.

911
01:09:55.855 --> 01:09:56.994
It'd be the widest

912
01:09:57.775 --> 01:10:01.790
possibility set that we've ever had, period, Like in humanity.

913
01:10:03.370 --> 01:10:03.870
And

914
01:10:04.250 --> 01:10:11.630
and so as a result, really, nobody has any idea how this stuff compounds and what are the knock on effects and where we end up.

915
01:10:11.930 --> 01:10:14.750
But if you're able to adapt and be flexible,

916
01:10:16.375 --> 01:10:21.435
that with that with that chaos and uncertainty comes opportunity. There's a lot of opportunity

917
01:10:21.895 --> 01:10:23.195
potential there because

918
01:10:23.575 --> 01:10:25.835
there's no set path. We don't really know

919
01:10:26.295 --> 01:10:27.515
where we go next.

920
01:10:28.180 --> 01:10:32.520
Exactly. That's the key, I think. It's just the flexibility to change and adapt to this stuff.

921
01:10:34.260 --> 01:10:42.815
Because yeah. I think that there's there's still gonna be plenty of opportunities. I I don't think that we're all gonna die in the streets. I think that that we're gonna be okay.

922
01:10:44.255 --> 01:10:49.074
But Yeah. I get it. We just we just need to maybe maybe I was thinking about,

923
01:10:50.815 --> 01:11:00.730
maybe making some giant Faraday cages for humans to hide in just in case the robot start to launch an all out attack because I think the robots are gonna need a Wi Fi connection,

924
01:11:01.510 --> 01:11:11.849
because because, like, the big problem is that you can't really run the model in, like, a inside of an Android. The model is gonna have to run another little server. They're just gonna use Starlink.

925
01:11:13.115 --> 01:11:20.415
Yeah. But if we if we all go in, like, a giant Faraday cage, then it's gonna block all those signals. So they're gonna have to, like, you know, be launching nuclear

926
01:11:21.275 --> 01:11:26.655
at us. But but but that that is that's basically, like, you know, another end of the world's

927
01:11:27.030 --> 01:11:27.690
possibility anyway. It's

928
01:11:27.990 --> 01:11:30.730
just like nuclear war and that and always has been.

929
01:11:31.190 --> 01:11:31.930
So, like, you

930
01:11:32.550 --> 01:11:37.210
know, is is that is AI a greater risk than the risks that we already

931
01:11:37.670 --> 01:11:41.205
had? Or or, like, just an asteroid hitting the earth or anything, you know?

932
01:11:41.685 --> 01:12:06.585
That twenty twenty seven piece thing was a little bit uncreative because, like, basically, the end result they had was eventually due to competition, both China and The US will plug the AI into the nuke system and then they'll nuke each other. But it's like, okay. Well, the current reality for the last sixty years has been the humans are standing there, and they're gonna nuke each other. So do you don't really change it that much. It's just who to who presses the button or what presses the button.

933
01:12:07.705 --> 01:12:08.364
And hopefully,

934
01:12:08.745 --> 01:12:12.525
we don't do that, but I would not be surprised if we do do that.

935
01:12:13.465 --> 01:12:17.485
And they're probably already kind of doing that with Palantir and Andrew and stuff.

936
01:12:18.505 --> 01:12:27.490
And the incentives are very much aligned with doing that because if your enemy is doing that and they're able to respond much quicker than you because you require human intervention, then, of course,

937
01:12:27.950 --> 01:12:32.610
you're gonna plug in your own AI systems into the command and control infrastructure so that

938
01:12:32.990 --> 01:12:33.490
Yeah.

939
01:12:33.965 --> 01:12:39.105
You can compete. And then we kinda end up in a game theory situation. But humans are resilient, and I'm

940
01:12:39.565 --> 01:12:41.744
I'm not overly concerned about it.

941
01:12:43.485 --> 01:12:46.625
I'm fascinated by it. I love the idea of uncertainty

942
01:12:47.005 --> 01:12:48.465
and and opportunity.

943
01:12:48.844 --> 01:12:56.040
So So I have another question for you. So the the question I gave you was, like, kinda with my ten thirty one hat on in terms of, like, monetization.

944
01:12:56.980 --> 01:12:59.640
And I do think there's a lot of opportunity there. And I still,

945
01:13:02.495 --> 01:13:14.675
you know, I think as far as successful businesses go, I think the number one fundamental pre AI was who is the founding team and who do they put around them? Like, who are the people? Right? The people are the are the actual value behind the company.

946
01:13:16.630 --> 01:13:23.850
And I I don't think that changes in this world. Like, I think, ultimately, like, you know, you're just you're you're making a

947
01:13:25.030 --> 01:13:25.530
a

948
01:13:28.150 --> 01:13:29.530
a calculated risk

949
01:13:30.034 --> 01:13:32.455
on who the people you are that you're backing.

950
01:13:32.835 --> 01:13:35.014
It just changes the toolset they're using.

951
01:13:35.315 --> 01:13:38.295
But, now I'm gonna put my OpenSats hat on.

952
01:13:39.715 --> 01:13:42.295
You know, me and Gigi have talked about this at length.

953
01:13:44.010 --> 01:13:45.550
I don't know how we proceed

954
01:13:46.090 --> 01:13:46.909
with OpenSats,

955
01:13:47.290 --> 01:13:51.790
and I'm kind of curious as someone I respect deeply. I'm kinda curious on your opinion

956
01:13:52.250 --> 01:13:54.989
on how we should think about this stuff at OpenSats

957
01:13:55.610 --> 01:13:56.590
because, historically,

958
01:13:58.065 --> 01:14:03.925
the main way that we approve grants and and the proof the grants that we put out is, like,

959
01:14:04.385 --> 01:14:06.725
massive proof of work in the open source ecosystem.

960
01:14:07.105 --> 01:14:08.165
You're, like, submitting

961
01:14:08.545 --> 01:14:12.165
you submit your code for review. We're seeing all your commits, whatnot.

962
01:14:14.160 --> 01:14:15.540
Like, how do we evolve

963
01:14:15.840 --> 01:14:22.020
in a one shot or not? I mean, we're being provocative with one shot, but Mhmm. In a vibe coded world where

964
01:14:22.320 --> 01:14:25.140
maybe in a week or two weeks, people are making apps.

965
01:14:25.554 --> 01:14:32.135
I mean, if I were you, I would reward good ideas, and I would and I would do smaller, more frequent

966
01:14:32.675 --> 01:14:40.170
donations, basically. Like like, someone builds, you know, Vibe Coding Geocache app, like, that's amazing. Here's, like, $5,000.

967
01:14:40.330 --> 01:14:48.590
And then if they keep doing it, then, you know, give them more money. And and maybe just, like, look for these people and just and just offer it, basically.

968
01:14:50.170 --> 01:14:51.630
That's how I would do it.

969
01:14:52.330 --> 01:14:57.605
And and, like, you know, encourage people to to be by coding apps,

970
01:14:58.625 --> 01:15:04.885
and and, like, yeah, like, smaller smaller, more frequent payments maybe is how I would consider it.

971
01:15:05.905 --> 01:15:07.685
What if the person submits,

972
01:15:09.870 --> 01:15:12.850
a clearly LLM generated SLOP application?

973
01:15:14.030 --> 01:15:34.364
Does that just automatically get thrown out? If I mean If you could view it with LLM, like, how do how do we how do we do I mean, I I would I would just click through. I I you can see, like, the level of effort and and the ideas. If if it's Slop, no. I wouldn't find Slop. But but, like, you know, I I would I would reward people for building cool things with AI for sure.

974
01:15:34.840 --> 01:15:45.500
And it I I think it doesn't have to be a lot. I I think that, like, a lot of people are gonna keep their day job, and that's okay. Like, we should reward people who are keeping their day job and who are vibe coding awesome stuff on NoScript.

975
01:15:46.615 --> 01:15:47.175
I see,

976
01:15:47.975 --> 01:15:56.315
Pseudo Carlos. I think this is half a joke, but I'm kinda curious on your opinion. He's saying we should just add just replace the board members with AI and just have AI

977
01:15:56.935 --> 01:16:05.740
determine the grants. What what are your thoughts on that? Do you think there should still be humans involved in the review process? Probably, there needs to be humans involved in the review process.

978
01:16:07.560 --> 01:16:09.420
Because you could just automate it.

979
01:16:10.120 --> 01:16:13.900
I don't I I don't think I don't think AI is gonna be good at recognizing

980
01:16:14.200 --> 01:16:14.700
what's

981
01:16:15.335 --> 01:16:18.155
what's good in terms of product like output.

982
01:16:19.735 --> 01:16:22.475
I think we need we definitely need humans.

983
01:16:23.255 --> 01:16:26.475
You know, I ideally, the humans are also acting as like a wingman,

984
01:16:26.855 --> 01:16:42.415
where they're kind of see overlap in what people are doing and be like, I'm gonna put you and you together. And and you've been a great wingman for me, Odell, and I appreciate it. So I think that I think that that's what the community needs more than ever right now is is just, you know,

985
01:16:43.055 --> 01:16:48.115
putting the right people together and and and kind of, you know, smaller, more frequent,

986
01:16:48.575 --> 01:16:49.795
rewards for things.

987
01:16:51.775 --> 01:16:52.755
Okay. Awesome.

988
01:16:53.615 --> 01:16:57.235
We're pretty aligned. This is a fascinating conversation. I really enjoyed it.

989
01:16:58.440 --> 01:17:24.120
Likewise. I I would love to make this more of a regular thing. Are you cool with that? Like, maybe, like, every four or five months or something like that. I would love to do it. Gonna have it's it's gonna evolve quickly. So I'd love to just keep having you on. I mean, you you better get in touch with me, like, next week because things are gonna change so much between now and then that, like, I will I'm down to have okay. We'll have so much to talk about. I I love it. I'm down to have you on more often, actually.

990
01:17:26.680 --> 01:17:29.020
As as you'd be down, I'm down. Okay.

991
01:17:29.400 --> 01:17:31.340
Because I think this is the place to watch.

992
01:17:32.920 --> 01:17:34.140
Before we wrap,

993
01:17:37.605 --> 01:17:40.825
what I asked you as, like, a case study, but, like,

994
01:17:41.285 --> 01:17:45.385
do you think it's worth it for us to mirror Elon's tweets to Nasr

995
01:17:45.765 --> 01:17:46.265
manually?

996
01:17:48.485 --> 01:17:54.810
All of Twitter? No. Just Elon? Just Elon. Yeah. I'm just asking Elon. We because we have Trump.

997
01:17:55.270 --> 01:17:59.050
I feel like if I need to follow two people in the world to see, like,

998
01:18:00.870 --> 01:18:04.010
how they're affecting my life, those would be the two that would be,

999
01:18:05.554 --> 01:18:12.935
like, Trump, like, literally, like, I I see the price of Bitcoin move, and I'm like, oh, I gotta see what Trump said. He must have said something.

1000
01:18:13.955 --> 01:18:24.770
Yeah. It'd be interesting. It'd be one of the few places on the web you can see Elon and Trump in the same feed. And it'd be one of the few where it's signed and hashed at the time of post and can't be deleted.

1001
01:18:25.310 --> 01:18:28.290
Yep. I mean, Elon deleted all a bunch of his tweets.

1002
01:18:28.989 --> 01:18:32.895
So, like, as an archive mechanism, it's pretty powerful, I think.

1003
01:18:33.695 --> 01:18:34.435
I agree.

1004
01:18:35.135 --> 01:18:50.770
I mean, we're like, Trump's every Trump's Truth Social post should be should be signed and archived. Like, that's what it should be. And if they're not gonna do it, then Yeah. Because he does delete his his post on on Truth Social, and and you can still comment on them on Noister. It's interesting. Exactly.

1005
01:18:51.790 --> 01:18:54.130
Okay. Awesome. I'm glad we're aligned on that.

1006
01:18:56.110 --> 01:19:01.730
I'm before I have you on next time, I'm gonna I'll vibe I'll vibe some stuff up with with,

1007
01:19:02.110 --> 01:19:06.805
gets start dev. And I'll reach out to you if I run into any issues because

1008
01:19:07.745 --> 01:19:17.949
The biggest thing we're working on right now is we're creating a web UI code named Shakespeare. And and this thing is gonna allow you to just go on a web page and start typing prompts, and it'll build

1009
01:19:18.330 --> 01:19:20.030
your NoStar app. Come out?

1010
01:19:21.410 --> 01:19:24.830
I am What's taking so long? Why don't you just one shot that?

1011
01:19:26.090 --> 01:19:34.715
So so this is gonna be based on NoStar service providers, which is a new spec developed by John Stabb that is supposed to replace the DBM spec.

1012
01:19:35.335 --> 01:19:44.075
And I'm just I'm just trying to make sure that I this is Discord Discord coded specification, basically. I'm just trying to make sure I have a good thing that people will want to reproduce,

1013
01:19:45.015 --> 01:19:54.989
and and then, you know, we'll have a sort of a decentralized thing on Noister to where people can build Noister clients. And, you know, I'm I'm racing to try to get it out, like,

1014
01:19:55.850 --> 01:19:58.989
you know, next week. But Oh, shit.

1015
01:19:59.375 --> 01:20:00.835
But, you know, we'll see.

1016
01:20:01.135 --> 01:20:05.395
It might I might be the We could have that soon. Way there. We'll have it soon for sure.

1017
01:20:05.935 --> 01:20:07.875
So that whole process of using

1018
01:20:08.735 --> 01:20:13.315
using terminal and and doing it through command line is is about to be

1019
01:20:14.140 --> 01:20:14.640
unnecessary.

1020
01:20:15.260 --> 01:20:24.560
I hope. But don't wait. Try it out today because it's worth it's worth trying it in the terminal still because it's producing really high quality, you know, one shot implementations.

1021
01:20:25.580 --> 01:20:28.880
So you think what? Do you think there'll be a trade off using the web

1022
01:20:29.315 --> 01:20:35.975
the web UI? Or I think I think it's just that I know that we've got it all figured out on the in the terminal,

1023
01:20:36.835 --> 01:20:39.895
and we don't have it fully figured out in terms of,

1024
01:20:40.275 --> 01:20:44.135
like, we're running a service now and especially concerning the money.

1025
01:20:44.480 --> 01:20:46.900
But that's that's gonna be an interesting thing because, like,

1026
01:20:47.440 --> 01:20:52.420
the it's gonna go through us, basically. And and other people will be able to run their own too.

1027
01:20:52.880 --> 01:20:55.699
But there's potentially also, like, a, you know, financial,

1028
01:20:56.480 --> 01:20:57.300
you know, possibility

1029
01:20:57.679 --> 01:20:58.179
here.

1030
01:21:00.135 --> 01:21:00.875
Got it.

1031
01:21:02.375 --> 01:21:05.995
I guess one last question before we leave you because I see,

1032
01:21:06.615 --> 01:21:07.835
like, a boss commented.

1033
01:21:11.415 --> 01:21:13.755
What is your thoughts? I mean, I have my own

1034
01:21:14.130 --> 01:21:24.710
very opinionated thoughts on this. But we were talking about archiving. I mean, you have a lot of history with Mastodon and the Fediverse and the negatives there and also with app protocol and blue sky.

1035
01:21:26.465 --> 01:21:27.525
What is your opinion,

1036
01:21:28.704 --> 01:21:33.844
to the people that say, you know, Nostra is actually not useful for archiving data or

1037
01:21:34.145 --> 01:21:37.045
preserving data because it can't scale because

1038
01:21:37.664 --> 01:21:39.605
very few people actually run relays.

1039
01:21:40.190 --> 01:21:41.650
I mean, I think that's just wrong.

1040
01:21:42.350 --> 01:21:42.850
Like,

1041
01:21:43.470 --> 01:21:44.610
just to to prove

1042
01:21:45.230 --> 01:21:48.130
a point against that, like, I built a Google Drive relay

1043
01:21:48.510 --> 01:21:53.890
that just, like, copies your post onto Google Drive. Like like, the fact that it has a signature

1044
01:21:54.245 --> 01:22:02.185
on it and it's completely portable means you can just set something up to to copy stuff in real time. Like, yeah, it's maybe a problem to query,

1045
01:22:02.965 --> 01:22:11.199
relays because they might have rate limits or they they might block it. But if you're if you have, like, you know, an application that's open in real time monitoring those for posts,

1046
01:22:11.579 --> 01:22:15.840
then, like, nothing is gonna stop you from being able to to archive that data forever.

1047
01:22:17.099 --> 01:22:18.239
Yeah. I mean, I,

1048
01:22:18.940 --> 01:22:23.515
I like to use the exam I mean, now I have a great new example, which is which is Elon's

1049
01:22:24.135 --> 01:22:24.635
Epstein

1050
01:22:25.095 --> 01:22:27.275
tweet where he's where he claimed that,

1051
01:22:28.135 --> 01:22:30.555
Trump is a pedophile, and that's why he's not releasing,

1052
01:22:30.935 --> 01:22:32.155
the Epstein lists.

1053
01:22:33.015 --> 01:22:39.429
He deleted that post. If he had posted that on Noster, thousands of people would have saved it because it's signed JSON.

1054
01:22:40.130 --> 01:22:49.989
You could literally save it on a USB drive if you wanted to. And at any point in the future, you can plug that USB drive in and broadcast it back to the world, and everyone can verify it hasn't been modified.

1055
01:22:50.345 --> 01:22:53.565
That's a great example for why we need to to mirror Elon.

1056
01:22:54.105 --> 01:22:59.005
Exactly. And there was a missed opportunity, but we'll have more opportunities in the future. But I,

1057
01:22:59.785 --> 01:23:05.465
like, people don't realize that that's that's why Nasr scales so well is because you don't have to run

1058
01:23:06.090 --> 01:23:08.350
Every relay doesn't have to hold all the information.

1059
01:23:08.810 --> 01:23:09.710
Running a relay

1060
01:23:10.410 --> 01:23:15.470
at the base level is actually not that performance intensive. It's very lightweight.

1061
01:23:15.930 --> 01:23:17.210
So the question becomes

1062
01:23:19.395 --> 01:23:23.494
so and then so you end up in a situation where you have relays of all different,

1063
01:23:25.235 --> 01:23:27.255
use cases, and you have people holding

1064
01:23:27.635 --> 01:23:29.735
nostril events in all different ways.

1065
01:23:30.275 --> 01:23:42.060
And but, ultimately, it's all interoperable with each other. And at at the at the very like, we could we could walk around with signed paper JSONs if we wanted to. You could put it on a fucking carrier paper. A QR code.

1066
01:23:42.440 --> 01:23:53.215
It wouldn't it wouldn't scale that well, but it would work. And it would it would still pass. And I think what technical people have issues with is you don't have this hard availability

1067
01:23:53.515 --> 01:23:54.015
guarantee.

1068
01:23:54.715 --> 01:24:03.855
But in practice, it's basically the Streisand effect. Like, if anything is worth keeping, someone and multiple people will keep it. And we see that with the screenshots,

1069
01:24:04.390 --> 01:24:09.610
people kept you know, there's no protocol for it, but people kept, you know there's probably, like, 20,000 copies,

1070
01:24:10.070 --> 01:24:11.850
100,000 copies of unverifiable,

1071
01:24:12.230 --> 01:24:15.130
which is the problem with it, screenshots of the Epstein post.

1072
01:24:16.230 --> 01:24:26.875
And it's because people, you know, thought it was important, and they wanted to save it, and they thought he was gonna delete it. If Kanye joins Noster, every single one of his notes will be saved by a lot of people because he's fucking Kanye.

1073
01:24:27.415 --> 01:24:41.860
Yeah. I I agree wholeheartedly. That's my rant. It was something Vader said I think that, like, the greatest innovation of No, sir, is not the relays. It's the keys. And I I agree with that so much. Because we can Everything is touched. Once the data is signed and it's portable, you can just put it anywhere.

1074
01:24:43.035 --> 01:24:43.535
Yeah.

1075
01:24:44.075 --> 01:24:48.975
So mine is asking if you can run a relay on the start nine. Yes. You can right now, but it doesn't have clear net support.

1076
01:24:49.835 --> 01:24:51.455
It should have clear net support

1077
01:24:51.915 --> 01:24:52.975
any day now.

1078
01:24:53.435 --> 01:24:53.935
For

1079
01:24:54.315 --> 01:24:58.495
start nine in general, the biggest issue is that a lot of it relies on Tor,

1080
01:24:59.090 --> 01:25:05.829
and they're trying to make clear net easier for people. So that should happen soon. But you yes. You can run a relay on a start nine.

1081
01:25:06.929 --> 01:25:08.289
Alex, this was awesome.

1082
01:25:08.610 --> 01:25:12.469
Do you have any final thoughts, for the freaks before we wrap?

1083
01:25:14.185 --> 01:25:16.765
Yeah. Like, you know, stick with the vibes.

1084
01:25:18.025 --> 01:25:20.045
Stick with the vibes. I love it.

1085
01:25:20.825 --> 01:25:24.285
I'll put links to everything we discussed in the show notes.

1086
01:25:25.310 --> 01:25:27.090
Alex will be joining us again

1087
01:25:27.470 --> 01:25:28.690
sometime soon.

1088
01:25:29.470 --> 01:25:30.530
And, Freaks,

1089
01:25:31.550 --> 01:25:35.250
I gave you we did two dispatches this week

1090
01:25:38.034 --> 01:25:40.054
because I'm gonna take a

1091
01:25:40.355 --> 01:25:41.574
little summer break,

1092
01:25:42.514 --> 01:25:46.695
from dispatch. We will be back on July 2. I'm having,

1093
01:25:47.635 --> 01:25:48.775
Perveen on,

1094
01:25:49.554 --> 01:25:51.335
the developer of Cove Wallet.

1095
01:25:52.500 --> 01:25:53.560
So in the meantime,

1096
01:25:55.140 --> 01:25:58.840
enjoy your families. I've still be doing rabbit hole recap every week,

1097
01:25:59.380 --> 01:26:03.960
but just taking a slight break from civil dispatch and catch up on the back catalog. There's, like,

1098
01:26:04.975 --> 01:26:14.675
four hundred hours of CIL dispatch in the back catalog if you haven't listened to it. Once again, best way to support the show is actually sharing with friends and family. We're available on every platform.

1099
01:26:15.535 --> 01:26:16.594
Podcast apps,

1100
01:26:16.990 --> 01:26:23.890
open up their phone, go to the podcast app, type in still dispatch, press the subscribe button, they'll see it pop up later. And they'll be like, what the hell happened?

1101
01:26:25.470 --> 01:26:27.810
But thank you all for joining us. Thank you, Alex.

1102
01:26:28.510 --> 01:26:29.410
Thank you, everybody.

1103
01:26:30.606 --> 01:26:34.066
Keep vibing. Vibes are high. Stay on the Stack Sats. Love you all.