CD163: FEMI LONGE - HRF BITCOIN DEV FUND FIVE YEAR ANNIVERSARY

WEBVTT

NOTE
Transcription provided by Podhome.fm
Created: 06/09/2025 20:48:45
Duration: 4229.653
Channels: 1

1
00:00:01.680 --> 00:00:12.019
Wandering around the Bitcoin conference in Las Vegas can feel a bit like entering a different country, full of unfamiliar concepts, difficult to describe customs, and a vocabulary

2
00:00:12.400 --> 00:00:13.335
all its own.

3
00:00:13.895 --> 00:00:15.275
Politically, the cryptocurrency

4
00:00:15.655 --> 00:00:17.675
investors here lean to the right.

5
00:00:18.375 --> 00:00:23.035
They gave a warm welcome to vice president JD Vance who, before entering politics,

6
00:00:23.415 --> 00:00:37.810
worked for a Silicon Valley tech company. He called crypto a symbol of personal liberty. I'm here today to say loud and clear, with president Trump, crypto finally has a champion and an ally in the White House.

7
00:00:38.190 --> 00:00:42.775
The rise of crypto raises questions about the state of the US dollar.

8
00:00:43.155 --> 00:00:47.495
For more than eighty years, the dollar has been the world's reserve currency.

9
00:00:48.035 --> 00:00:50.855
The value of items traded internationally

10
00:00:51.475 --> 00:00:55.360
from soybeans to diamonds to oil are all denominated

11
00:00:55.739 --> 00:00:56.480
in dollars.

12
00:00:56.860 --> 00:01:07.200
And the dollar has always been a safe haven in times of financial panics for both governments and individual investors. But now the Trump administration's

13
00:01:08.245 --> 00:01:11.465
have shaken that faith in the dollar like never before.

14
00:01:12.085 --> 00:01:17.465
Trump's trade war caused the value of both the dollar and US Government bonds to fall.

15
00:01:18.805 --> 00:01:25.640
The prospect of burgeoning debt led credit ratings agency Moody's to downgrade The US's creditworthiness

16
00:01:26.100 --> 00:01:26.600
rating.

17
00:01:27.140 --> 00:01:29.720
If the US government, federal government

18
00:01:30.180 --> 00:01:31.720
keeps raking up this

19
00:01:32.180 --> 00:01:33.000
high deficit

20
00:01:34.180 --> 00:01:37.025
and and high debt, at some point,

21
00:01:38.685 --> 00:01:39.345
the risk,

22
00:01:39.645 --> 00:01:42.785
right, the risk of of US dollar defaulting

23
00:01:43.645 --> 00:01:44.465
will increase.

24
00:01:45.325 --> 00:01:51.280
Crypto investors see their digital currency as the potential replacement for the dollar over time.

25
00:01:51.979 --> 00:01:57.920
More people today are asking what is money than ever before, and that is largely because of Bitcoin.

26
00:01:58.860 --> 00:01:59.920
Despite the enthusiasm,

27
00:02:00.300 --> 00:02:02.400
crypto is still seen as risky,

28
00:02:02.795 --> 00:02:04.814
subject to wild peaks and crashes,

29
00:02:05.115 --> 00:02:11.055
and not as flexible as traditional currencies, which can be managed by central banks to smooth out instabilities.

30
00:02:11.834 --> 00:02:15.440
Solution is not necessarily to abandon the dollar dollar

31
00:02:15.820 --> 00:02:16.320
and

32
00:02:16.700 --> 00:02:19.600
invest, you know, your eggs, a lot of your eggs,

33
00:02:20.460 --> 00:02:21.440
in crypto

34
00:02:21.740 --> 00:02:23.440
assets. So just be very careful.

35
00:02:25.020 --> 00:02:31.674
Mainstream economists are betting that despite the turmoil caused by Trump's policies, the dollar will endure,

36
00:02:32.135 --> 00:02:33.275
at least for now.

37
00:02:33.655 --> 00:02:35.114
Rob Reynolds, Al Jazeera,

38
00:02:35.415 --> 00:02:36.235
Las Vegas.

39
00:03:19.239 --> 00:03:21.019
Happy Bitcoin Monday, freaks.

40
00:03:21.319 --> 00:03:25.420
It's your host, Odell, here for another Citadel Dispatch,

41
00:03:25.845 --> 00:03:26.584
the interactive

42
00:03:26.965 --> 00:03:31.385
live show focused on actual Bitcoin and Freedom Tech discussion.

43
00:03:32.165 --> 00:03:39.545
That intro clip was Al Jazeera's coverage of the recent Bitcoin Vegas conference. It felt timely.

44
00:03:40.520 --> 00:03:44.220
Before we get started, I wanted to thank all the freaks for continuing to support the show.

45
00:03:44.840 --> 00:03:45.340
Dispatch

46
00:03:45.880 --> 00:03:46.380
is

47
00:03:47.160 --> 00:03:50.700
purely audience funded with Bitcoin donations. We have no ads or sponsors.

48
00:03:52.200 --> 00:03:58.635
You can either zap the show in our Nostril live chat, which you can find at silldispatch.com/stream,

49
00:03:58.935 --> 00:04:00.475
or you can zap the show

50
00:04:00.935 --> 00:04:05.035
through podcasting two point o apps like Fountain Podcasts.

51
00:04:05.415 --> 00:04:08.795
Our top zap from last week's podcasting two point o

52
00:04:10.989 --> 00:04:13.170
power zaps was JCB,

53
00:04:13.870 --> 00:04:21.889
ride or die freak, sent 20,000 sats. He said great conversation. Love the backs and forths. If you haven't listened to that one, consider going back and listening.

54
00:04:22.430 --> 00:04:25.330
Anyway, freaks, I have a great show lined up today for us.

55
00:04:26.455 --> 00:04:32.875
We have Femi here who's the global Bitcoin development lead for HRF and their Bitcoin development fund.

56
00:04:33.255 --> 00:04:36.555
Good friend. First time on the show. How's it going, Femi?

57
00:04:37.175 --> 00:04:39.514
I'm brilliant. Really, really great to be here.

58
00:04:40.770 --> 00:04:44.070
The feeling is mutual. So I thought that intro clip was,

59
00:04:46.450 --> 00:04:47.750
kind of fun because,

60
00:04:48.130 --> 00:04:49.430
you guys held your,

61
00:04:50.770 --> 00:04:54.710
Hallmark event at the same time, your annual Oslo Freedom Forum.

62
00:04:55.285 --> 00:04:58.025
And you specifically had a Freedom Tech and AI track

63
00:04:58.565 --> 00:05:02.265
that, I watched from afar because I could not make it. That seemed,

64
00:05:04.085 --> 00:05:11.080
was just fantastic. You guys always do a great job with content. So how how let's start with that. How did how did that event go? What were some takeaways?

65
00:05:11.860 --> 00:05:13.080
How do you think about it?

66
00:05:13.380 --> 00:05:16.759
It was a brilliant I mean, it was a Oslo is always a

67
00:05:17.060 --> 00:05:18.600
a a great event.

68
00:05:19.380 --> 00:05:25.384
It was my third one, my first one as a member of the team. So it felt it felt different in its own way.

69
00:05:26.324 --> 00:05:27.625
But, I mean,

70
00:05:29.205 --> 00:05:32.504
I think what's beautiful about the Oslo Freedom Firm is

71
00:05:33.044 --> 00:05:34.504
the possibility to actually

72
00:05:34.805 --> 00:05:37.625
meet people who are using Bitcoin,

73
00:05:38.670 --> 00:05:39.170
not,

74
00:05:39.950 --> 00:05:40.770
as a

75
00:05:41.070 --> 00:05:44.690
as as an investment asset like we saw in Luckly, but

76
00:05:45.230 --> 00:05:45.730
as

77
00:05:46.110 --> 00:05:47.810
a life or death tool

78
00:05:48.510 --> 00:05:51.650
to help them in their fight against some of the worst,

79
00:05:53.415 --> 00:05:55.355
hardest, baddest people on the planet.

80
00:05:56.535 --> 00:06:00.235
I I say Oslo is a gathering of some of the bravest people in the world

81
00:06:00.695 --> 00:06:09.919
because if you if you're standing up to the might of the Russian government or the Chinese government or the Saudi Arabian government or any other dictator in the world

82
00:06:10.379 --> 00:06:11.759
with just your

83
00:06:12.300 --> 00:06:12.800
belief

84
00:06:13.500 --> 00:06:14.000
and

85
00:06:14.539 --> 00:06:16.879
conviction that you're standing for truth.

86
00:06:17.419 --> 00:06:18.400
That's brave.

87
00:06:22.225 --> 00:06:27.125
Having one one of the speakers at our, on the financial freedom stage,

88
00:06:27.665 --> 00:06:28.645
the week before,

89
00:06:29.745 --> 00:06:34.085
she was abducted, a Ugandan activist. She was abducted by the government of Tanzania

90
00:06:35.139 --> 00:06:38.360
while trying to attend the trial of the opposition leader in Tanzania.

91
00:06:38.979 --> 00:06:40.120
Abducted, tortured,

92
00:06:41.220 --> 00:06:44.360
and dumped on the border of Tanzania and Uganda.

93
00:06:45.220 --> 00:06:47.639
And she still made made it to

94
00:06:48.134 --> 00:06:49.675
to us, though, with the bruises

95
00:06:50.055 --> 00:06:55.194
on her legs and could still stand on stage and tell her story. Like, that's immense bravery.

96
00:06:55.574 --> 00:07:00.155
And in the middle of that, having people working Bitcoiners, people working on

97
00:07:00.610 --> 00:07:03.590
freedom money, working on freedom communication, master,

98
00:07:04.610 --> 00:07:06.150
dare to engage these people.

99
00:07:06.930 --> 00:07:10.550
I think in many ways, it puts the work of the builders in context

100
00:07:11.010 --> 00:07:12.870
that you're not just building the technology

101
00:07:13.250 --> 00:07:14.070
in the abstract.

102
00:07:14.794 --> 00:07:16.895
There are actually people who rely on it

103
00:07:17.435 --> 00:07:23.055
for their survival, for the survival of the truth to be able to actually push back

104
00:07:23.675 --> 00:07:26.415
against autocracy that is trying to rise and

105
00:07:27.030 --> 00:07:30.330
being able to interact in that space. Like someone said, it's both

106
00:07:31.430 --> 00:07:33.610
depressing and exciting in equal measures.

107
00:07:34.150 --> 00:07:38.650
It's depressing when you hear all the horror stories of what's going on in the world.

108
00:07:39.030 --> 00:07:42.490
But I think the excitement is seeing that the human spirit is still alive

109
00:07:43.235 --> 00:07:47.014
and that and that Bitcoin is is being actively used as a tool

110
00:07:47.395 --> 00:07:50.455
in that fight. It just it makes the whole work worth it.

111
00:07:51.634 --> 00:07:53.155
Love it. Yeah. I,

112
00:07:55.555 --> 00:07:57.254
so I think I've been

113
00:07:58.090 --> 00:07:59.870
volunteering and working alongside

114
00:08:00.490 --> 00:08:00.990
Gladstein

115
00:08:01.530 --> 00:08:02.510
and his work

116
00:08:03.290 --> 00:08:08.350
with the HRF training activists how to use Bitcoin for almost seven years now.

117
00:08:10.125 --> 00:08:12.785
This week marks the five year anniversary

118
00:08:13.245 --> 00:08:15.745
of your Bitcoin development fund supporting,

119
00:08:16.765 --> 00:08:19.585
developers working on Bitcoin as freedom money.

120
00:08:20.285 --> 00:08:20.785
And,

121
00:08:22.125 --> 00:08:22.865
you know,

122
00:08:24.150 --> 00:08:29.930
that that's always the vibe that I've gotten from HRF events and and working with activists.

123
00:08:30.310 --> 00:08:33.690
It's twofold. Right? It helps combat the burnout

124
00:08:34.230 --> 00:08:34.730
because

125
00:08:36.285 --> 00:08:40.945
you're like, okay. This is why the work is so important. It's inspiring. I mean, these people

126
00:08:43.005 --> 00:08:51.745
are up against odds that I fortunately have never had to to go up against in my life. But then also you go hit with this opposite side,

127
00:08:52.120 --> 00:08:56.060
which is you just feel like we're not doing enough. We're not doing quick enough.

128
00:08:57.000 --> 00:09:03.900
And everyone else is in this little bubble where they think, like, everything's going great. And there's just so much work to be done.

129
00:09:04.920 --> 00:09:05.420
And

130
00:09:06.035 --> 00:09:09.415
so I I've taken that as a a source of inspiration.

131
00:09:10.755 --> 00:09:12.375
It's also part of the

132
00:09:12.835 --> 00:09:15.895
the reason OpenSats exists in the first place was

133
00:09:16.595 --> 00:09:22.370
was through that work and and realizing that so much more needed to be done. I'm curious from your perspective,

134
00:09:23.390 --> 00:09:29.010
now that you are a global development lead at HRF, how do you think about it? How do you think about

135
00:09:29.390 --> 00:09:31.250
where we are in Bitcoin today,

136
00:09:32.510 --> 00:09:36.915
and how how we can improve and and and where the successes are.

137
00:09:38.335 --> 00:09:38.835
So,

138
00:09:40.415 --> 00:09:41.315
I mean, I

139
00:09:43.455 --> 00:09:45.875
I I always like to go back to the beginning

140
00:09:46.255 --> 00:09:48.275
and literally beginning of Bitcoin.

141
00:09:49.199 --> 00:09:52.019
I mean, not the free history now, but Bitcoin itself

142
00:09:52.560 --> 00:09:54.019
started without white paper.

143
00:09:55.199 --> 00:09:59.540
It paid to it's a a system for pay to pay electronic cash.

144
00:10:00.560 --> 00:10:02.100
And and I think,

145
00:10:03.475 --> 00:10:05.735
Satoshi, whoever he or they are,

146
00:10:06.515 --> 00:10:07.575
were very visionary,

147
00:10:08.275 --> 00:10:12.215
but also understanding of the need of a of a lot of the world

148
00:10:12.995 --> 00:10:15.090
when the intention was this creates

149
00:10:15.650 --> 00:10:19.990
a means for people to move value from one part of the planet to the other part of the planet

150
00:10:20.610 --> 00:10:21.910
without going through intermediaries.

151
00:10:22.930 --> 00:10:24.710
I think somewhere along the line,

152
00:10:27.345 --> 00:10:29.925
while people were trying to get into that system,

153
00:10:30.945 --> 00:10:34.805
we realized that alongside the existing fiat system,

154
00:10:35.824 --> 00:10:39.285
the fiat system was going to zero against Bitcoin.

155
00:10:41.880 --> 00:10:43.339
And, of course, the whole

156
00:10:43.800 --> 00:10:48.380
interest in Bitcoin as an investment asset then took off on the back of that.

157
00:10:49.480 --> 00:10:52.779
But the intention of the original creation wasn't necessarily

158
00:10:53.160 --> 00:10:54.139
as a hedge

159
00:10:54.755 --> 00:10:57.654
against inflation or a or a hedge against fiat.

160
00:10:58.675 --> 00:11:01.015
It was supposed to be a way for us to actually

161
00:11:01.555 --> 00:11:03.175
move value across the world

162
00:11:03.555 --> 00:11:05.654
without relying on existing systems.

163
00:11:06.675 --> 00:11:09.335
And in the work we do at human at HRF,

164
00:11:10.279 --> 00:11:12.060
we we work with people who

165
00:11:12.440 --> 00:11:15.420
are desperately in need of a way to move value

166
00:11:16.360 --> 00:11:19.100
without relying on the traditional system

167
00:11:19.720 --> 00:11:24.220
because there are people who the traditional system actively considers as enemies.

168
00:11:26.015 --> 00:11:26.835
And so

169
00:11:27.455 --> 00:11:32.595
while while it's easy for a lot of conversation to get an a lot of the hype to be around

170
00:11:33.214 --> 00:11:36.355
or which country now has a Bitcoin reserve,

171
00:11:36.830 --> 00:11:37.990
which bank has,

172
00:11:38.430 --> 00:11:40.770
which business has Bitcoin on its,

173
00:11:42.430 --> 00:11:43.330
balance sheet,

174
00:11:43.790 --> 00:11:44.770
which ETF

175
00:11:46.110 --> 00:11:50.050
is now being launched, how much are people putting ETFs. While while

176
00:11:50.654 --> 00:11:52.435
all those conversations are exciting,

177
00:11:53.375 --> 00:11:57.954
we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that a vast majority of this planet

178
00:11:59.935 --> 00:12:01.315
live under authoritarianism.

179
00:12:03.950 --> 00:12:07.410
Vast majority of this planet live in places where

180
00:12:08.029 --> 00:12:11.089
moving value seamlessly from one place to the other

181
00:12:11.630 --> 00:12:12.450
is a nightmare.

182
00:12:13.790 --> 00:12:16.290
On the one hand, there's the friction of the system,

183
00:12:17.195 --> 00:12:21.615
but on the other, it's the possibility of the system to use your money flows

184
00:12:22.155 --> 00:12:24.095
as a weapon against you

185
00:12:25.115 --> 00:12:27.455
when you decide to call out authoritarianism.

186
00:12:29.379 --> 00:12:32.839
And so the system itself is a cage.

187
00:12:33.300 --> 00:12:37.959
The existing financial system, fiat system is not just a drain of your value.

188
00:12:38.500 --> 00:12:40.120
It's a cage on your freedom.

189
00:12:41.220 --> 00:12:43.959
It stops you from being able to demand

190
00:12:44.834 --> 00:12:46.055
for rights and justices

191
00:12:46.435 --> 00:12:49.095
that people, like us living in the West,

192
00:12:49.635 --> 00:12:50.615
take for granted.

193
00:12:51.954 --> 00:12:52.774
And so

194
00:12:53.235 --> 00:12:55.255
helping people escape from that system

195
00:12:56.690 --> 00:12:58.150
is as much

196
00:12:58.930 --> 00:12:59.430
helping

197
00:13:00.130 --> 00:13:01.830
them achieve their human rights

198
00:13:02.850 --> 00:13:04.550
as it is helping them,

199
00:13:06.210 --> 00:13:08.550
escape the devaluation of the fiat system.

200
00:13:10.395 --> 00:13:15.215
And being able to enable that work through the work we do at Human Rights Foundation,

201
00:13:15.915 --> 00:13:16.635
for us, it's a

202
00:13:19.435 --> 00:13:24.235
in many ways, it's us helping ourselves. So we're an organization that helps and works with,

203
00:13:25.480 --> 00:13:25.980
people

204
00:13:26.680 --> 00:13:27.980
defending human rights,

205
00:13:28.360 --> 00:13:29.500
fighting for democracy,

206
00:13:29.880 --> 00:13:32.540
and under authoritarian regimes across the world.

207
00:13:32.920 --> 00:13:33.420
Right?

208
00:13:34.360 --> 00:13:37.580
But we know that those people, for them to be able to do their work effectively,

209
00:13:38.745 --> 00:13:41.405
the fiat system is being recognized against them.

210
00:13:42.185 --> 00:13:44.045
So also investing in Bitcoin

211
00:13:44.425 --> 00:13:49.005
is a way for us to actually enable the people that we exist to support.

212
00:13:50.265 --> 00:13:53.805
So it's we're we're each we're scratching our own itch

213
00:13:54.320 --> 00:13:55.220
in many ways.

214
00:13:55.760 --> 00:13:57.060
If Bitcoin works,

215
00:13:57.680 --> 00:14:04.820
if Bitcoin is is able to be used for those values that that are important for the activists, for the security,

216
00:14:05.279 --> 00:14:06.180
for the decentralization,

217
00:14:06.800 --> 00:14:07.620
for the privacy,

218
00:14:08.495 --> 00:14:14.675
If that works, it also enables us to be effective in the work we do to to help the activists in the first place.

219
00:14:15.135 --> 00:14:18.435
And so because of that, it became it was a no brainer for us.

220
00:14:19.855 --> 00:14:21.180
Well, we got to it,

221
00:14:21.660 --> 00:14:24.640
if I if I'll be fair. We evolved to it.

222
00:14:26.700 --> 00:14:30.880
We it started with us getting donations in Bitcoin.

223
00:14:31.420 --> 00:14:34.960
Us seeing the human rights activists we're working with,

224
00:14:37.774 --> 00:14:40.435
being situations where Bitcoin was the only lifeline.

225
00:14:42.334 --> 00:14:47.714
Early early on, I think our earliest interaction with Bitcoin in this regards came with Julian Assange

226
00:14:48.610 --> 00:14:50.390
and WikiLeaks and and

227
00:14:51.090 --> 00:14:52.630
seeing how he was debunked,

228
00:14:53.250 --> 00:14:57.910
seeing that Bitcoin was the only way he could get donation for the works that was they were doing at WikiLeaks.

229
00:14:58.850 --> 00:15:03.165
Fast forward a few years later, HR received his own donation, I think 2014. So

230
00:15:03.644 --> 00:15:04.785
eleven years ago,

231
00:15:05.324 --> 00:15:07.584
we received our first Bitcoin donations.

232
00:15:08.925 --> 00:15:09.425
And

233
00:15:10.764 --> 00:15:14.305
and continue to see more of the activists in Ukraine, in Afghanistan,

234
00:15:15.005 --> 00:15:17.024
people depending more on the technology

235
00:15:17.580 --> 00:15:20.320
for that value as peer to peer electronic cash

236
00:15:20.860 --> 00:15:23.600
that either allowed aids to go into those countries

237
00:15:24.380 --> 00:15:29.840
when the banking system it was just impossible to use any other means to get value in there

238
00:15:30.220 --> 00:15:31.840
or to get people out

239
00:15:32.465 --> 00:15:36.725
when the systems the place was too difficult and they needed to relocate,

240
00:15:37.105 --> 00:15:42.405
or whether it is for medical aid or whether it's for legal aid for people who are confronting dictators.

241
00:15:43.985 --> 00:15:46.565
Increasingly, we realized that the technology itself,

242
00:15:47.770 --> 00:15:53.310
was was being a lifeline for us in the work we're doing with people we're working with. And we realized

243
00:15:53.690 --> 00:15:58.430
it made no sense for us not to or, well, we realized that this the

244
00:15:58.730 --> 00:16:00.030
Bitcoin is not perfect.

245
00:16:01.275 --> 00:16:04.095
It needs continuous investment to improve the technology,

246
00:16:04.635 --> 00:16:06.495
but also to preserve the values

247
00:16:07.115 --> 00:16:09.535
that makes it perfect on sensible money.

248
00:16:10.955 --> 00:16:12.575
And and so we,

249
00:16:13.430 --> 00:16:14.730
courtesy of Alex Gladstein,

250
00:16:15.509 --> 00:16:17.449
who our chief strategy officer,

251
00:16:18.470 --> 00:16:20.490
maybe our chief Bitcoin officer.

252
00:16:22.550 --> 00:16:23.290
We decided

253
00:16:23.670 --> 00:16:30.145
we need to put we need to put our money where our mouth is, And in our initial support was to develop us in the space,

254
00:16:31.245 --> 00:16:34.145
a few Bitcoin core developers, a few application developers.

255
00:16:34.845 --> 00:16:37.085
But gradually, I think we realized that,

256
00:16:37.565 --> 00:16:41.105
what's needed to for Bitcoin to be useful

257
00:16:41.800 --> 00:16:43.500
and to be usable by

258
00:16:44.520 --> 00:16:45.020
activists

259
00:16:45.960 --> 00:16:47.660
requires more than just developers.

260
00:16:48.760 --> 00:16:51.580
And so over the years, I I like to say

261
00:16:51.960 --> 00:16:54.460
our fund, the Bitcoin Development Fund

262
00:16:55.135 --> 00:16:57.875
is the innovation kickstarter in the Bitcoin space.

263
00:16:59.214 --> 00:17:03.154
For most people in the Bitcoin space, we are the first ever institutional

264
00:17:04.255 --> 00:17:05.075
institutional funder.

265
00:17:06.495 --> 00:17:10.710
The tons of people in the space whose first ever grant came from HRF,

266
00:17:11.510 --> 00:17:13.130
then they got the grant from OpenSats.

267
00:17:15.350 --> 00:17:18.090
I I and that's a trend that we we see.

268
00:17:18.390 --> 00:17:21.370
We take very risky bets. We take bets on

269
00:17:22.070 --> 00:17:23.370
projects at the fringes,

270
00:17:24.445 --> 00:17:29.585
where most people in the space most funders in the space are funding technical projects and developers.

271
00:17:30.605 --> 00:17:31.825
We we go beyond.

272
00:17:33.005 --> 00:17:33.745
Our fund

273
00:17:34.045 --> 00:17:42.450
focus is on technical projects that that help us preserve the features of Bitcoin we like, that makes it perfect on Sensory Woman. So decentralization,

274
00:17:42.910 --> 00:17:44.610
we support projects that decentralize

275
00:17:45.150 --> 00:17:47.169
every layer of Bitcoin. Decentralizing

276
00:17:47.549 --> 00:17:49.570
the mining, decentralizing the development,

277
00:17:50.275 --> 00:17:52.775
decentralizing where the developers are are from.

278
00:17:53.955 --> 00:17:59.255
Projects that help us secure the network, but also enable people transact with Bitcoin securely.

279
00:17:59.875 --> 00:18:03.015
Projects that help us preserve the privacy features of Bitcoin,

280
00:18:05.180 --> 00:18:08.800
that helps people be able to engage and interact with it without the chances

281
00:18:09.260 --> 00:18:11.440
that they their identity can be

282
00:18:11.820 --> 00:18:13.360
discovered through chain analysis.

283
00:18:15.660 --> 00:18:16.300
We fund

284
00:18:17.885 --> 00:18:22.225
we also fund projects that helps us get Bitcoin into the hands of activists

285
00:18:22.765 --> 00:18:24.785
and helps them use Bitcoin easily.

286
00:18:25.165 --> 00:18:27.265
So we fund user experience projects.

287
00:18:28.605 --> 00:18:30.785
We fund translation projects.

288
00:18:31.500 --> 00:18:34.480
We fund education strategic education projects.

289
00:18:35.100 --> 00:18:35.840
We fund,

290
00:18:36.860 --> 00:18:38.080
application projects

291
00:18:38.860 --> 00:18:39.360
that

292
00:18:39.980 --> 00:18:43.425
gets that that helps us with connecting that last mile

293
00:18:43.745 --> 00:18:54.805
of now I have this Bitcoin. What do I do with it? How do I do my everyday transactions in an environment where there are not many merchants that are already accepting Bitcoin? We found those kind of projects.

294
00:18:55.665 --> 00:18:57.365
But we also realized that

295
00:18:58.280 --> 00:18:58.780
the

296
00:18:59.640 --> 00:19:01.260
transfer of money is important,

297
00:19:02.040 --> 00:19:02.860
but oftentimes,

298
00:19:03.320 --> 00:19:07.740
what doxes the financial transactions is the communications that happens

299
00:19:08.760 --> 00:19:12.285
across. But also communication, the communication platform, and and,

300
00:19:12.765 --> 00:19:13.265
infrastructure

301
00:19:14.125 --> 00:19:18.385
also has a role in whether the activism happens more effectively or not.

302
00:19:18.845 --> 00:19:22.465
And so on the back of that, again, in recognition of the broken

303
00:19:23.325 --> 00:19:25.905
the central air communication system, we also

304
00:19:26.220 --> 00:19:30.000
fund a lot of projects around Nasdaq and sell insularized communications.

305
00:19:31.179 --> 00:19:33.360
Both projects that help us prove

306
00:19:33.900 --> 00:19:35.440
the utility of Nasdaq,

307
00:19:35.820 --> 00:19:37.360
but projects that go beyond

308
00:19:37.820 --> 00:19:40.155
and make the Nasdaq protocol more,

309
00:19:40.555 --> 00:19:42.575
useful and usable by activists.

310
00:19:43.675 --> 00:19:48.495
We also fund we also now fund beyond Bitcoin, beyond we also fund,

311
00:19:49.755 --> 00:19:51.215
Internet freedom projects,

312
00:19:52.155 --> 00:19:53.455
because we also realize

313
00:19:53.779 --> 00:19:58.039
as a last resort to end the dictators realize that they can't stop you,

314
00:19:58.899 --> 00:20:00.360
then they go after

315
00:20:01.380 --> 00:20:02.120
the Internet.

316
00:20:02.899 --> 00:20:04.840
So we found projects that help,

317
00:20:05.460 --> 00:20:06.840
keep the Internet on,

318
00:20:07.765 --> 00:20:09.305
projects that help with decentralizing

319
00:20:10.725 --> 00:20:14.505
the way information is relayed over the Internet. So things like Tor.

320
00:20:16.165 --> 00:20:19.365
We've we've we've funded one of one of our grantees, which,

321
00:20:19.765 --> 00:20:20.985
they were also at Oslo.

322
00:20:22.010 --> 00:20:22.990
They're called Tollgate.

323
00:20:23.690 --> 00:20:24.909
They allow anybody

324
00:20:25.610 --> 00:20:26.750
become an ISP

325
00:20:27.770 --> 00:20:30.830
by selling your excess Internet off your router

326
00:20:31.370 --> 00:20:32.350
for e cash.

327
00:20:33.845 --> 00:20:38.905
Basically, just connect the software on your router, and you become an ISP, an Internet service provider.

328
00:20:41.045 --> 00:20:42.425
That for us helps

329
00:20:43.205 --> 00:20:43.945
both privacy,

330
00:20:44.565 --> 00:20:58.520
but also helps re remove the the the Internet service provider, which often is a bottleneck and one of the tools that government uses for surveilling how people interact on the Internet. So yeah. Where the funds grown. The funds evolved.

331
00:20:59.645 --> 00:21:01.345
But what's critical is

332
00:21:01.725 --> 00:21:02.945
we support Bitcoin,

333
00:21:04.044 --> 00:21:04.544
and

334
00:21:05.164 --> 00:21:08.065
we support Bitcoin in a way that makes it usable

335
00:21:08.524 --> 00:21:10.945
and useful for the activists that we support

336
00:21:11.245 --> 00:21:13.664
because that's the primary objective of the organization.

337
00:21:15.190 --> 00:21:18.170
And what's interesting is even with that mandate,

338
00:21:19.670 --> 00:21:20.550
we we we

339
00:21:21.190 --> 00:21:23.370
it's still wide enough and broad enough.

340
00:21:23.750 --> 00:21:28.250
Now we're then able to support very innovative, interesting things that people are building in the space.

341
00:21:30.565 --> 00:21:31.065
Awesome.

342
00:21:34.565 --> 00:21:35.544
So I

343
00:21:37.684 --> 00:21:39.784
I'm pretty sure the first

344
00:21:40.804 --> 00:21:41.304
HRF

345
00:21:41.924 --> 00:21:43.865
Bitcoin education event,

346
00:21:44.460 --> 00:21:46.080
which is held in San Francisco

347
00:21:47.179 --> 00:21:51.760
at Block's offices. At that point, it was Square, specifically at Cash App's offices,

348
00:21:52.299 --> 00:21:53.669
was January

349
00:21:53.669 --> 00:21:54.480
2019.

350
00:21:56.695 --> 00:21:58.635
And I was there with Alex Gladstein,

351
00:21:59.095 --> 00:22:02.155
Miles Souter. I think Lopf called in,

352
00:22:03.735 --> 00:22:07.595
and a few other people. And we had, like, maybe 12 activists.

353
00:22:09.380 --> 00:22:20.600
And I think it's then why do I bring this up? I think it's it's important context because it's easy to get lost in the minutia and the day to day and be like, we're not doing enough. We're not doing quick enough.

354
00:22:22.105 --> 00:22:29.404
But we've come a really, really long way since then. I mean, I remember the tools we were using. Lightning Network was brand new.

355
00:22:30.184 --> 00:22:34.044
Most of the wallets people rely on on mobile didn't exist yet.

356
00:22:35.270 --> 00:22:37.450
We had a lot of trouble with the training.

357
00:22:39.909 --> 00:22:43.770
Maybe cold card existed, but it was still very, very early.

358
00:22:45.190 --> 00:22:48.730
I remember, like, Ledger gift gifted a bunch of wallets.

359
00:22:49.684 --> 00:22:53.945
The point was was it was very much trial by fire. We just kinda did it

360
00:22:54.245 --> 00:22:54.565
Right.

361
00:22:55.365 --> 00:22:55.865
And

362
00:22:56.325 --> 00:22:59.785
saw where the pain points were and where where improvements could be made.

363
00:23:01.605 --> 00:23:02.105
And

364
00:23:02.590 --> 00:23:07.170
since then, we've come a long way, but there's still a lot more work to be done. I see

365
00:23:07.470 --> 00:23:07.970
Victor,

366
00:23:08.830 --> 00:23:12.770
who is, the lead maintainer of the Amethyst Noster client

367
00:23:13.550 --> 00:23:14.930
in our live chat.

368
00:23:15.274 --> 00:23:19.054
And he's asking me a he's asking you a question that I personally,

369
00:23:20.554 --> 00:23:25.455
as one of the leads at OpenSats, don't love the question because it feels like picking your favorite child.

370
00:23:25.914 --> 00:23:28.735
So we're not gonna ask you to pick your favorite child. But

371
00:23:29.360 --> 00:23:29.940
just in your

372
00:23:30.560 --> 00:23:31.060
mind,

373
00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:37.220
over the last five years or maybe even a subset since you started working with HRF,

374
00:23:37.840 --> 00:23:39.460
what do you think is

375
00:23:40.160 --> 00:23:49.975
some of the biggest achievements that you guys have have found both through the educate because it's twofold. Right? It's you're sending out Bitcoin to all these developers and educators

376
00:23:50.755 --> 00:23:51.415
and designers

377
00:23:52.275 --> 00:23:53.095
and translators.

378
00:23:54.035 --> 00:23:59.270
But then there's also the actual education element, the direct education element with the activists

379
00:23:59.650 --> 00:24:01.990
and the training that goes into that. So

380
00:24:02.370 --> 00:24:06.630
how do you feel how do you think about some of the biggest achievements that you guys have made?

381
00:24:07.170 --> 00:24:10.150
Where and then and then on top of that, I would add,

382
00:24:10.945 --> 00:24:14.565
you know, where where do you think we could do better? Where can we improve?

383
00:24:14.945 --> 00:24:17.445
Where where do you want more focus to be?

384
00:24:17.985 --> 00:24:18.485
So

385
00:24:18.785 --> 00:24:25.205
it it it it'd be hard for me to isolate and pick one one specific grant and see this is a close-up

386
00:24:26.530 --> 00:24:27.030
grant.

387
00:24:27.490 --> 00:24:28.550
I mean, we funded

388
00:24:29.010 --> 00:24:30.850
more than 219

389
00:24:30.850 --> 00:24:32.950
grants in the with Megan. Impressive.

390
00:24:34.850 --> 00:24:38.150
Direct through the through the quarterly grants program, we've given,

391
00:24:38.610 --> 00:24:40.390
$8,200,000.

392
00:24:41.654 --> 00:24:46.875
Right now, we've we've we've doubled the numbers every year. Right now, we're giving a a million dollars every quarter.

393
00:24:48.215 --> 00:24:50.475
I also didn't mention we also fund

394
00:24:50.855 --> 00:24:51.355
conferences,

395
00:24:51.894 --> 00:24:52.394
communities,

396
00:24:52.695 --> 00:24:53.755
and gatherings.

397
00:24:56.580 --> 00:24:57.800
I I I I'd say

398
00:24:58.900 --> 00:25:02.520
what I think is has been the the success of the fund

399
00:25:03.460 --> 00:25:09.375
is their few the is the amount of human stories and the people in the space and the projects in the space

400
00:25:10.495 --> 00:25:12.035
that probably won't have

401
00:25:12.415 --> 00:25:13.395
had their start

402
00:25:14.975 --> 00:25:17.235
if they didn't get that initial grant

403
00:25:17.935 --> 00:25:19.235
to get them off the ground.

404
00:25:20.335 --> 00:25:23.795
I was at the African Bitcoin conference in December

405
00:25:24.600 --> 00:25:29.820
in Kenya. And I'll talk about the African Bitcoin conference as a success story on it soon.

406
00:25:30.280 --> 00:25:33.240
But when a panel on funding in Bitcoin

407
00:25:34.200 --> 00:25:36.299
and there were five of us on the panel,

408
00:25:38.765 --> 00:25:40.705
Myself, Abubakar from Beatrust,

409
00:25:41.325 --> 00:25:42.465
Dread from OpenStarts,

410
00:25:46.924 --> 00:25:49.025
Moe from Bitcoin Design

411
00:25:49.725 --> 00:25:50.225
Foundation,

412
00:25:50.605 --> 00:25:51.664
and it's a Porsche.

413
00:25:52.830 --> 00:25:56.610
What was interesting was even though each of us represented different organizations

414
00:25:56.910 --> 00:26:00.130
that was giving funding, Anita giving funding to educators,

415
00:26:01.470 --> 00:26:03.809
Bitcoin government fund giving funding to designers,

416
00:26:05.735 --> 00:26:07.434
Every single one of us as individuals

417
00:26:09.174 --> 00:26:12.075
had been a grantee of HRF at one point or the other.

418
00:26:13.735 --> 00:26:16.315
Abubakar for his wallet and for color,

419
00:26:16.855 --> 00:26:17.914
Dread for Flash,

420
00:26:18.294 --> 00:26:19.755
Anita for her work,

421
00:26:20.350 --> 00:26:21.649
Bitcoin Design Foundation,

422
00:26:22.029 --> 00:26:22.929
me for Carla

423
00:26:23.710 --> 00:26:24.529
in the past.

424
00:26:25.149 --> 00:26:27.169
That's how that's how pivotal

425
00:26:27.629 --> 00:26:28.129
HRFs

426
00:26:28.830 --> 00:26:34.450
and the big Bitcoin development fund has been. I got into the Bitcoin space three and a half years ago,

427
00:26:35.355 --> 00:26:38.015
when Kala was being formed the program to train

428
00:26:38.395 --> 00:26:40.735
software engineers from Africa

429
00:26:41.035 --> 00:26:42.735
to get them into Bitcoin development.

430
00:26:43.595 --> 00:26:44.895
The first grant that,

431
00:26:45.995 --> 00:26:48.655
Kala got was from the Bitcoin Development Fund.

432
00:26:49.355 --> 00:26:53.399
The following year, we had a larger grant from the Bitcoin Development Fund.

433
00:26:53.940 --> 00:26:54.440
Right?

434
00:26:55.299 --> 00:27:05.559
I met Alex Glasson for the first time, which kind of led to me getting into this role at the African the first African Bitcoin conference in twenty twenty three, December.

435
00:27:07.405 --> 00:27:08.145
That conference

436
00:27:08.445 --> 00:27:08.945
was

437
00:27:09.325 --> 00:27:11.425
kick started by Farida,

438
00:27:12.365 --> 00:27:13.665
a human rights activist.

439
00:27:14.125 --> 00:27:17.745
Probably, she was at that training that you guys did at Block's office.

440
00:27:18.210 --> 00:27:19.590
But human rights activist

441
00:27:20.130 --> 00:27:21.590
who first came into

442
00:27:22.850 --> 00:27:23.990
this space through

443
00:27:24.450 --> 00:27:26.230
a connection with Human Rights Foundation

444
00:27:26.929 --> 00:27:29.169
ended up becoming the convener of,

445
00:27:31.184 --> 00:27:36.325
the biggest Bitcoin conference in the global South and the major Bitcoin conference in Africa.

446
00:27:36.865 --> 00:27:40.485
Right? It was at that conference that I met Miles and

447
00:27:40.945 --> 00:27:42.165
and Gladstein.

448
00:27:43.309 --> 00:27:46.850
So and lots of lots of interactions that led to

449
00:27:47.150 --> 00:27:49.250
lots even more projects from that space.

450
00:27:50.750 --> 00:27:52.770
The Bitcoin government fund has funded

451
00:27:53.150 --> 00:27:55.005
every major conference in Bitcoin.

452
00:27:55.485 --> 00:27:58.545
Every major conference in Bitcoin since the phone phone was founded.

453
00:27:59.485 --> 00:28:00.945
Each one of these an opportunity

454
00:28:01.405 --> 00:28:02.225
to find

455
00:28:02.845 --> 00:28:04.705
people working on interesting things,

456
00:28:05.085 --> 00:28:08.065
but also to connect people together so that they can collaborate

457
00:28:08.570 --> 00:28:18.110
so that new interesting ideas, new interesting projects come out from there. But we get new new ideas, new insights of what else is happening around the horizon that we should be funding.

458
00:28:18.970 --> 00:28:21.470
So it's hard to isolate one thing.

459
00:28:22.625 --> 00:28:27.605
I I said the fund's been a catalyst. It's been a it's been a kickstarter for innovation.

460
00:28:30.945 --> 00:28:34.164
And and the getting the recognition enough from the innovators

461
00:28:35.060 --> 00:28:36.200
that we exist

462
00:28:36.580 --> 00:28:38.600
and that we're there to enable them.

463
00:28:39.380 --> 00:28:42.200
So that that makes them apply to us for funding

464
00:28:43.060 --> 00:28:44.680
is the success of the fund.

465
00:28:46.340 --> 00:28:48.120
We could be a fund that

466
00:28:50.774 --> 00:28:54.154
that exists but is not getting that's struggling for,

467
00:28:55.575 --> 00:28:56.075
pipeline.

468
00:28:56.855 --> 00:28:59.274
We have way more pipeline than we have funding

469
00:29:00.455 --> 00:29:07.590
right now because people recognize that we take best take bets. We take bets on risky things that move the space forward.

470
00:29:08.530 --> 00:29:11.110
And and and that's the culture that we want to continue.

471
00:29:11.650 --> 00:29:15.590
And that's the that's the positioning that we we still want to have in the space.

472
00:29:17.035 --> 00:29:20.975
There's there's lots of the if most of the funders in the space

473
00:29:21.675 --> 00:29:23.135
primarily fund developers.

474
00:29:25.355 --> 00:29:27.695
We think developers are important for Bitcoin,

475
00:29:28.475 --> 00:29:30.815
but we think Bitcoin is going to be adopted

476
00:29:31.115 --> 00:29:31.615
as

477
00:29:32.330 --> 00:29:35.710
money, as currency, as peer to peer electronic cash.

478
00:29:36.170 --> 00:29:38.430
We need more than developers in that conversation.

479
00:29:39.450 --> 00:29:46.350
And and we're willing to keep betting on more than developers to actually make this more human and more used by humans.

480
00:29:47.515 --> 00:29:51.215
So I don't know if that answers Vito's question. It's a it's a good answer.

481
00:29:52.475 --> 00:29:52.975
I

482
00:29:54.715 --> 00:29:57.435
that was a great answer. It was a great answer for me. I

483
00:29:59.120 --> 00:30:02.740
so, I mean, I feel like we've known each other for quite a bit,

484
00:30:03.120 --> 00:30:07.860
at this point measured in the years. I don't you know, it all kind of blends together.

485
00:30:08.560 --> 00:30:09.060
And,

486
00:30:09.920 --> 00:30:12.820
you know, I always enjoy having conversations with you because

487
00:30:15.125 --> 00:30:18.424
we I I we're aligned on 95%,

488
00:30:18.565 --> 00:30:19.625
ninety eight %.

489
00:30:20.565 --> 00:30:24.105
But we obviously come from two completely different world views and perspectives.

490
00:30:25.605 --> 00:30:26.825
And you never

491
00:30:27.150 --> 00:30:30.770
bite your tongue. I also never bite my tongue. You just say how you think,

492
00:30:31.390 --> 00:30:34.290
which I respect and and appreciate. To

493
00:30:34.830 --> 00:30:35.730
bite your tongue.

494
00:30:37.070 --> 00:30:42.210
It's it's a waste it's a waste of our short lives to to self censor yourself. But

495
00:30:42.585 --> 00:30:43.325
I remember,

496
00:30:45.225 --> 00:30:46.845
a presentation you gave

497
00:30:47.145 --> 00:30:47.645
maybe

498
00:30:48.025 --> 00:30:49.645
a little over a year ago,

499
00:30:50.345 --> 00:30:51.485
and it was about,

500
00:30:52.664 --> 00:31:03.010
you know, the lack of focus on the right things in the space or at least from your perspective. And I think particularly you had a controversial statement was, like, everyone's trying to build wallets. We don't need more wallets.

501
00:31:05.470 --> 00:31:07.330
From your position now,

502
00:31:09.255 --> 00:31:09.755
where

503
00:31:11.175 --> 00:31:16.475
where do we need more focus? Like, where where where is the pain points? Where is the

504
00:31:17.255 --> 00:31:19.515
where is where is the points where

505
00:31:20.630 --> 00:31:22.490
we can have real tangible improvements

506
00:31:22.950 --> 00:31:24.330
in the wider ecosystem

507
00:31:26.630 --> 00:31:28.330
in the short to medium term?

508
00:31:29.350 --> 00:31:29.850
So,

509
00:31:30.790 --> 00:31:36.255
so I remember the presentation you you referenced. And and in that presentation, I had a chat.

510
00:31:36.815 --> 00:31:38.035
And on that chat,

511
00:31:39.535 --> 00:31:40.115
I had

512
00:31:40.495 --> 00:31:41.395
at both ends,

513
00:31:42.095 --> 00:31:42.915
one end,

514
00:31:45.695 --> 00:31:48.835
human beings, all the things that they do to end their living,

515
00:31:50.549 --> 00:31:52.970
which in this case is mostly in fiat.

516
00:31:53.990 --> 00:32:02.250
Whether it's a job, whether you're selling stuff, whether you whatever you do, whether it's investment, all the things human beings used to end is mostly in fiat.

517
00:32:03.235 --> 00:32:03.735
And

518
00:32:04.434 --> 00:32:09.015
on the other end, the far end is the things that human beings spend money on

519
00:32:09.715 --> 00:32:11.975
to enjoy their lives for quality of life.

520
00:32:12.515 --> 00:32:14.215
And, again, it's mostly in fiat.

521
00:32:15.230 --> 00:32:18.770
And so the assumption is that human beings earn fiat,

522
00:32:19.790 --> 00:32:23.170
then we want them to convert that fiat into Bitcoin for storage.

523
00:32:24.270 --> 00:32:28.770
But then when they need to live out their lives, they have to convert that Bitcoin back to fiat

524
00:32:29.390 --> 00:32:30.370
so that they can

525
00:32:30.835 --> 00:32:31.715
pay for school fees,

526
00:32:33.315 --> 00:32:34.295
get an Uber,

527
00:32:34.835 --> 00:32:38.535
do all the things that they need. And we assume that in that system,

528
00:32:38.835 --> 00:32:41.655
Bitcoin is at the center because that's where people are saving.

529
00:32:43.070 --> 00:32:44.450
And for me, I think

530
00:32:44.750 --> 00:32:47.250
that paradigm actually centralizes fiat.

531
00:32:48.350 --> 00:32:51.330
Because for the vast majority of people on this planet,

532
00:32:51.950 --> 00:32:57.730
how do I end my living and how do I spend from my living to have a good quality of life?

533
00:32:58.155 --> 00:33:00.175
And if they are doing those things predominantly

534
00:33:00.555 --> 00:33:01.295
in fiat,

535
00:33:02.315 --> 00:33:04.015
then the fiat system stays.

536
00:33:04.875 --> 00:33:06.415
And so for me, I think

537
00:33:06.955 --> 00:33:08.975
that where our paradigm needs to be

538
00:33:09.515 --> 00:33:10.495
in this space

539
00:33:10.795 --> 00:33:12.015
is how do we eliminate

540
00:33:12.870 --> 00:33:14.170
fiat from that picture.

541
00:33:15.270 --> 00:33:18.250
And what that means for me is how do we create

542
00:33:18.630 --> 00:33:21.370
a million and one ways for people to earn Bitcoin

543
00:33:22.550 --> 00:33:24.490
and a million and which would

544
00:33:24.790 --> 00:33:25.290
contra

545
00:33:25.924 --> 00:33:29.304
create a million and one places where people can spend their Bitcoin.

546
00:33:30.405 --> 00:33:33.304
And, yes, you will save your you will save some of your Bitcoin,

547
00:33:34.005 --> 00:33:35.544
but people have needs.

548
00:33:35.924 --> 00:33:38.345
Money is one thing that's one commodity,

549
00:33:38.645 --> 00:33:43.430
one man made good that everybody on this planet interacts with every day of their life.

550
00:33:43.890 --> 00:33:54.230
From when you wake up in the morning till you go to bed at night, there's several touch points in your day where you have to commerce and trade for things that you can produce that you need to for your quality of life.

551
00:33:54.835 --> 00:33:56.135
How do we make Bitcoin

552
00:33:56.915 --> 00:33:57.575
a critical

553
00:33:57.955 --> 00:33:59.815
option at each of those stages?

554
00:34:00.275 --> 00:34:03.575
For as long as we treat this thing as digital goods, something you

555
00:34:04.115 --> 00:34:04.615
Huddl

556
00:34:04.995 --> 00:34:07.575
and stack somewhere and don't touch forever,

557
00:34:08.970 --> 00:34:10.110
then we

558
00:34:10.570 --> 00:34:13.470
Bitcoin loses its ability as actual money.

559
00:34:14.090 --> 00:34:15.310
And so for me, if

560
00:34:15.690 --> 00:34:21.550
if if I think about where we need to be thinking about directing our energies when it comes to building,

561
00:34:22.105 --> 00:34:22.925
It's creating

562
00:34:23.385 --> 00:34:29.565
a million and one opportunities for people to earn Bitcoin, and a million and one opportunities for people to be able to spend Bitcoin.

563
00:34:29.945 --> 00:34:34.925
If I want to learn a new skill and I go on a website that I would usually go to that has

564
00:34:35.619 --> 00:34:42.040
maybe 10,000,000 people on it, do I have the option to actually buy a course there and pay in Bitcoin?

565
00:34:42.820 --> 00:34:46.440
And if I'm the course creator on that platform, do I have the

566
00:34:46.740 --> 00:34:49.480
the choice to denominate my course in

567
00:34:50.005 --> 00:34:53.785
Bitcoin as well as in Fiat? And can I withdraw

568
00:34:54.244 --> 00:34:56.265
my earnings on the plat platform

569
00:34:56.565 --> 00:35:02.820
in Bitcoin and or Fiat? If I if I have to go from one place to the other and I have to take an Uber

570
00:35:03.300 --> 00:35:15.734
Or what about variation of Uber it is I'm taking to take me from point a to point b? Do I have the choice to pay with my Bitcoin wallet? And if I'm the driver, do I have the choice to actually get paid in Bitcoin?

571
00:35:16.355 --> 00:35:18.535
My argument is Bitcoin

572
00:35:18.994 --> 00:35:19.974
that you earn.

573
00:35:20.435 --> 00:35:22.855
You're less worried about volatility of

574
00:35:23.234 --> 00:35:26.214
price of Bitcoin to the US dollars when you earn your Bitcoin

575
00:35:26.515 --> 00:35:29.095
versus when you have to purchase it with fiat.

576
00:35:29.540 --> 00:35:39.880
Because if you purchase it with fiat, you're thinking about how much was it when I bought it versus how much is it when I have to convert it back. So if we wanna remove that volatility curve,

577
00:35:40.260 --> 00:35:40.760
which

578
00:35:41.220 --> 00:35:43.480
seems to be in many people's mind

579
00:35:44.035 --> 00:35:44.535
the

580
00:35:44.835 --> 00:35:45.335
barrier

581
00:35:45.715 --> 00:35:47.655
for adoption of Bitcoin as currency,

582
00:35:47.955 --> 00:35:50.135
then more and more people should be earning Bitcoin.

583
00:35:50.435 --> 00:35:53.255
And innovators should be thinking about how do we create

584
00:35:54.035 --> 00:35:58.295
ways for people to for more ways for people to earn KYC free Bitcoin

585
00:35:58.850 --> 00:36:03.190
through the skills they have, through the things they have, through the services that they can deliver,

586
00:36:04.290 --> 00:36:08.790
as opposed to assuming that everybody will convert their fiat to Bitcoin.

587
00:36:09.250 --> 00:36:12.150
The problem with the convert fiat to Bitcoin

588
00:36:12.585 --> 00:36:15.005
is that the closer you are to the money printer,

589
00:36:15.785 --> 00:36:17.325
the more Bitcoin you accumulate.

590
00:36:17.785 --> 00:36:21.325
And we're already seeing it right now. We're companies that are creating

591
00:36:21.705 --> 00:36:25.724
fiat US dollar debts and using it to accumulate Bitcoin.

592
00:36:26.820 --> 00:36:30.200
And that wall basically means that the people who won in the fiat world

593
00:36:30.580 --> 00:36:41.335
end up being the winners in the Bitcoin world, and that's not the kind of wall I I I'm interested in. I want everyone to have a fair shot at getting Bitcoin for the things that they can do, for the skills that they have,

594
00:36:41.714 --> 00:36:47.974
and have let them have access to money that has not been eroded by governments. I think that's that's where I'd love to see more building.

595
00:36:49.635 --> 00:36:50.455
So I

596
00:36:53.019 --> 00:36:54.319
cosign that perspective,

597
00:36:55.900 --> 00:36:56.799
and and

598
00:36:58.380 --> 00:37:01.279
and agree with the hope. I mean, so my

599
00:37:01.900 --> 00:37:05.519
so two things. First of all, my family, we just we hold our savings

600
00:37:06.095 --> 00:37:08.275
and we hold our savings all in Bitcoin.

601
00:37:08.734 --> 00:37:10.914
Like, real Bitcoin, self custody Bitcoin.

602
00:37:12.654 --> 00:37:17.795
I earn a mix of Bitcoin and dollars. And when I get dollars, I convert it into Bitcoin.

603
00:37:18.174 --> 00:37:20.974
And that's a short gap. You know, a a

604
00:37:22.220 --> 00:37:22.720
current

605
00:37:23.420 --> 00:37:26.319
place we are in in the adoption cycle. It is what it is.

606
00:37:26.780 --> 00:37:30.559
And we prefer to spend Bitcoin wherever we can spend Bitcoin.

607
00:37:30.940 --> 00:37:36.720
I always say that, you know, there's a meme and every good meme is has a basis in reality

608
00:37:37.475 --> 00:37:43.815
of we're still early. Bitcoin is still early. And I I think the the pivotal point where that flips

609
00:37:44.755 --> 00:37:45.255
is

610
00:37:45.955 --> 00:37:52.055
where most people are earning Bitcoin rather than buying Bitcoin, and most people are spending Bitcoin rather than selling Bitcoin.

611
00:37:52.400 --> 00:37:59.860
I think at that point is when Bitcoin is starting to really become the standard and we're past the quote, unquote, you are early phase.

612
00:38:00.240 --> 00:38:02.820
Now where I have trouble with is

613
00:38:05.615 --> 00:38:11.474
I I keep thinking we're, like, about to hit the precipice where I'm gonna be able to spend Bitcoin everywhere.

614
00:38:11.775 --> 00:38:14.515
But we we just haven't gotten there. I I

615
00:38:15.055 --> 00:38:21.270
I'm curious on your opinion. Like, how do we how do how do you actually bootstrap that? Like, how do we

616
00:38:22.230 --> 00:38:24.330
I I think maybe it happens eventually,

617
00:38:24.870 --> 00:38:26.010
probably not with,

618
00:38:27.270 --> 00:38:36.490
you know, real work being put in by people. But I think we can accelerate it. I'm just not sure how the best way to accelerate it. Do you have any opinions on

619
00:38:37.155 --> 00:38:40.135
how we can accelerate that process to to where we get

620
00:38:40.755 --> 00:38:44.935
to a point where most things in life I can just spend Bitcoin on?

621
00:38:45.715 --> 00:38:47.655
So I think it's it's

622
00:38:48.035 --> 00:38:50.115
the acceleration, and it's it's kinda what we

623
00:38:50.910 --> 00:38:53.890
it also ties to what we do at at HRF and the PDF.

624
00:38:54.510 --> 00:38:57.890
The acceleration, this is one of those things that will start in the places

625
00:38:58.750 --> 00:39:00.290
where the need is acute.

626
00:39:02.270 --> 00:39:03.809
I I say at the moment,

627
00:39:04.415 --> 00:39:06.755
if you wanted to send money to someone in Australia

628
00:39:08.175 --> 00:39:11.395
from whereby from somewhere in The US where you are,

629
00:39:14.415 --> 00:39:15.474
it's very easy.

630
00:39:17.079 --> 00:39:18.380
It's extremely easy.

631
00:39:18.839 --> 00:39:23.980
If a person uses if if you wanted to send fiat, if the person uses PayPal or one of the

632
00:39:24.359 --> 00:39:26.700
platforms like that, the person sends you a link,

633
00:39:27.079 --> 00:39:28.380
you whip out a card,

634
00:39:29.160 --> 00:39:30.220
you send it,

635
00:39:30.520 --> 00:39:31.339
case closed.

636
00:39:32.664 --> 00:39:39.164
Not there's no part of your your thinking where you think about what is the exchange rate between the US dollars and the Australian dollars.

637
00:39:41.065 --> 00:39:43.885
If I wanted to do the same thing from Nigeria,

638
00:39:46.130 --> 00:39:49.750
it's a nightmare and a half. It's like six nightmares in one

639
00:39:50.690 --> 00:39:55.030
because I'm thinking about how do I convert the naira to the US dollars.

640
00:39:55.490 --> 00:39:57.270
Where am I going to do the conversion?

641
00:39:57.714 --> 00:40:02.055
The banks if I go to the bank, banks tell me we don't have enough US dollar to come back for you.

642
00:40:02.434 --> 00:40:10.775
Right? So I go on the streets. And in every African country, you have people on the streets that do the exchange for you, except they are gonna give you physical cash.

643
00:40:11.580 --> 00:40:15.040
So now I have the physical cash I need to get to the guy in Australia.

644
00:40:15.500 --> 00:40:17.280
Am I gonna pop it in the post?

645
00:40:17.740 --> 00:40:20.240
Am I gonna rely on the banking system?

646
00:40:21.020 --> 00:40:24.560
So you already already you have places in the world where

647
00:40:24.860 --> 00:40:27.200
the need exists and it is real,

648
00:40:28.355 --> 00:40:32.295
where getting the bank is not a theoretical event.

649
00:40:32.595 --> 00:40:34.295
It's people's everyday reality.

650
00:40:34.915 --> 00:40:36.454
Where trying to move

651
00:40:36.994 --> 00:40:37.494
legitimately

652
00:40:37.875 --> 00:40:39.655
move value across borders

653
00:40:40.595 --> 00:40:41.415
is a nightmare.

654
00:40:42.369 --> 00:40:43.190
When, legitimately,

655
00:40:44.210 --> 00:40:46.790
the government is like, my my colleague, Anna,

656
00:40:47.890 --> 00:40:50.210
who used to be CFO who is the CFO of,

657
00:40:50.850 --> 00:40:52.230
Anti Corruption Foundation,

658
00:40:53.010 --> 00:40:55.830
woke up one day and the Russian government

659
00:40:56.375 --> 00:40:58.234
had gone in their fiat bank account

660
00:40:58.694 --> 00:41:02.875
and had put them in the red to the tune of minus $17,000,000,000.

661
00:41:04.694 --> 00:41:05.194
Right?

662
00:41:05.655 --> 00:41:11.434
Or is looking at their bank account to see who is donating to them so that we can declare them enemy of the state.

663
00:41:12.260 --> 00:41:13.960
Right? For those people,

664
00:41:14.900 --> 00:41:15.720
this is not

665
00:41:16.099 --> 00:41:16.599
abstract.

666
00:41:17.700 --> 00:41:19.160
It is their lived reality.

667
00:41:20.099 --> 00:41:24.040
For the human rights defenders that we work with, it's not abstract

668
00:41:24.735 --> 00:41:27.075
that the government is surveilling your transactions.

669
00:41:28.175 --> 00:41:28.575
And it's

670
00:41:29.295 --> 00:41:32.255
and and and the governments now with their moves to try and, like,

671
00:41:33.615 --> 00:41:35.235
what's the word? Institutionalize

672
00:41:35.775 --> 00:41:37.475
central bank digital currencies

673
00:41:38.250 --> 00:41:41.310
Want to even take this thing to next level on steroids.

674
00:41:42.810 --> 00:41:48.510
So if we're looking at how do we bootstrap a system where people are not

675
00:41:48.810 --> 00:41:50.270
transacting in fiat,

676
00:41:50.885 --> 00:41:53.865
then let's go to the places where transacting in fiat

677
00:41:54.165 --> 00:41:55.704
already has so much friction,

678
00:41:57.125 --> 00:41:58.825
and it's already so dangerous

679
00:41:59.765 --> 00:42:01.385
that it becomes a no brainer

680
00:42:02.405 --> 00:42:03.464
that they adopt

681
00:42:03.810 --> 00:42:07.190
solutions that enable them transact out of the outside the system.

682
00:42:08.210 --> 00:42:10.550
And we've seen that in Nigeria where I'm from.

683
00:42:10.930 --> 00:42:15.030
It's one of the reasons why Nigeria is is top 10 in Bitcoin and crypto adoption.

684
00:42:15.744 --> 00:42:21.125
People who are legitimate transactions, things didn't have to do with money for life and for life and death in some instances,

685
00:42:21.425 --> 00:42:23.685
but they just couldn't do it through traditional systems.

686
00:42:24.065 --> 00:42:29.205
So when I say builders should stop building wallets and exchanges with that, which are means to

687
00:42:29.660 --> 00:42:31.680
either convert your Bitcoin to

688
00:42:32.380 --> 00:42:35.600
fiat or fiat to Bitcoin or means to store your Bitcoin.

689
00:42:36.460 --> 00:42:41.200
It means they need to go to where people are facing real transaction challenges,

690
00:42:42.565 --> 00:42:44.825
understand the people, understand the context,

691
00:42:45.605 --> 00:42:49.065
and build solutions that that build on that,

692
00:42:51.125 --> 00:42:55.305
to to solve the problem. I was in I was in Kenya A Couple Of Months ago.

693
00:42:55.770 --> 00:42:57.710
I spent a week in Kenya.

694
00:42:58.890 --> 00:43:01.470
I didn't use I didn't whip up my card once

695
00:43:03.370 --> 00:43:05.310
because one of our grantees,

696
00:43:05.770 --> 00:43:06.270
Tandu,

697
00:43:07.290 --> 00:43:07.950
had built

698
00:43:08.250 --> 00:43:08.990
an application

699
00:43:09.835 --> 00:43:14.175
that basically interfaces Bitcoin with the mobile money system in Pesa,

700
00:43:15.595 --> 00:43:16.415
which means

701
00:43:16.875 --> 00:43:20.015
I get in a taxi, I get to the other end of my ride,

702
00:43:20.635 --> 00:43:23.215
the taxi driver gives me his mobile number.

703
00:43:23.995 --> 00:43:29.990
I go on the Tando app, I type in his mobile number. I type in how much I want to send to him.

704
00:43:31.170 --> 00:43:33.190
Instantly, Tandu generates a lightning

705
00:43:33.970 --> 00:43:34.470
invoice.

706
00:43:35.170 --> 00:43:37.670
I go to my lightning app of choice.

707
00:43:38.555 --> 00:43:41.934
I send an instant payment. The guy gets it in Kenyan shillings

708
00:43:42.714 --> 00:43:43.934
in his phone instantly.

709
00:43:45.755 --> 00:43:46.255
Right?

710
00:43:46.795 --> 00:43:48.255
That's last mile solution.

711
00:43:49.194 --> 00:43:49.694
That's

712
00:43:50.010 --> 00:43:54.430
it. That's that's so so that what that means is literally literally

713
00:43:54.730 --> 00:43:55.230
every

714
00:43:55.930 --> 00:43:58.350
merchant in Kenya accepts M Pesa.

715
00:43:59.290 --> 00:44:02.910
So you don't have to go to the merchants to convince them to accept Bitcoin.

716
00:44:03.775 --> 00:44:07.715
Literally, you can spend your Bitcoin with every merchant in Kenya.

717
00:44:10.335 --> 00:44:14.595
Those are the kind of solutions that we need to be building if we want this technology

718
00:44:15.135 --> 00:44:17.715
to reach the kind of scale that it needs to.

719
00:44:18.609 --> 00:44:22.950
In the in the intervening, it's going to seamlessly integrate with the fiat system.

720
00:44:24.609 --> 00:44:27.030
Since we founded Tandu, we've seen,

721
00:44:28.369 --> 00:44:32.710
similar applications being built in Costa Rica, in Brazil, in Senegal,

722
00:44:33.295 --> 00:44:34.035
in Ghana,

723
00:44:34.655 --> 00:44:35.875
all across the world.

724
00:44:37.615 --> 00:44:40.195
We're now seeing more of those applications and conversations

725
00:44:40.975 --> 00:44:41.875
about interfacing

726
00:44:42.175 --> 00:44:43.315
those applications

727
00:44:43.695 --> 00:44:53.049
across the countries. So that we have in a whole network of last mile Bitcoin solutions that connect with the existing fiat system that helps us bring the next

728
00:44:53.910 --> 00:44:57.609
hundred million, five hundred million, billion people into the ecosystem.

729
00:44:59.910 --> 00:45:04.805
Eventually, at some point, they'll turn on the option for the merchants to decide, do I want to actually receive

730
00:45:05.425 --> 00:45:08.405
my payment in fiat or do I want to receive it in Bitcoin?

731
00:45:08.945 --> 00:45:09.445
Right?

732
00:45:10.545 --> 00:45:16.245
And that's how we start reaching out to people. But the starting point is we need to move beyond the West.

733
00:45:17.040 --> 00:45:21.540
We need to move to the rest of the world. We need to go to the places where people have

734
00:45:21.840 --> 00:45:24.180
lots of friction with the financial systems,

735
00:45:24.720 --> 00:45:29.780
and we need to go there with the listing ears, with asking ears, with

736
00:45:30.185 --> 00:45:32.525
observing our eyes open to observe,

737
00:45:32.825 --> 00:45:39.405
to understand how people interacting with money now, and how can Bitcoin help make their life easier and more seamless.

738
00:45:40.665 --> 00:45:42.685
Also, in the last few years,

739
00:45:43.145 --> 00:45:44.125
with with

740
00:45:44.750 --> 00:45:45.250
people

741
00:45:45.710 --> 00:45:46.450
like Carla,

742
00:45:46.829 --> 00:45:50.210
which is now Beatrice Builders or Liberta Satoshi

743
00:45:50.589 --> 00:45:51.089
in

744
00:45:51.470 --> 00:45:54.530
in South America or Vincium in Brazil,

745
00:45:55.069 --> 00:45:56.450
Beachala in India,

746
00:45:57.005 --> 00:46:00.545
We're starting to Bob's space in Thailand. We're starting to onboard

747
00:46:01.565 --> 00:46:02.625
software developers,

748
00:46:03.085 --> 00:46:04.065
product builders

749
00:46:04.525 --> 00:46:06.785
from the rest of the world into Bitcoin

750
00:46:07.965 --> 00:46:08.465
because

751
00:46:09.190 --> 00:46:09.930
a situation

752
00:46:10.470 --> 00:46:11.290
a decentralized

753
00:46:12.310 --> 00:46:13.690
ecosystem of builders

754
00:46:14.070 --> 00:46:15.210
strengthens Bitcoin

755
00:46:16.870 --> 00:46:18.650
when government starts criminalizing

756
00:46:19.830 --> 00:46:20.730
writing code.

757
00:46:21.705 --> 00:46:23.725
And Bitcoin Bitcoin developers

758
00:46:24.025 --> 00:46:24.765
in the West

759
00:46:25.305 --> 00:46:28.365
become afraid to be identified as Bitcoin developers.

760
00:46:29.145 --> 00:46:34.445
We need to be sure that there are people in places across the world that are still contributing to the technology

761
00:46:35.065 --> 00:46:36.925
that are not facing the same risks.

762
00:46:38.030 --> 00:46:41.010
As you get more developers from those parts of the world,

763
00:46:41.310 --> 00:46:43.170
understanding Bitcoin as technology,

764
00:46:43.790 --> 00:46:46.450
being able to build on Bitcoin and building Bitcoin,

765
00:46:47.070 --> 00:46:49.650
but also being steeped in the nuances

766
00:46:50.475 --> 00:46:53.055
of the rest of the world where moving money

767
00:46:53.595 --> 00:46:54.975
is still filled with friction.

768
00:46:55.835 --> 00:46:58.255
Then you're going to be getting more of those people

769
00:46:58.795 --> 00:47:00.895
triggering new interesting applications

770
00:47:01.595 --> 00:47:02.895
in the Bitcoin space.

771
00:47:03.490 --> 00:47:07.910
The challenge we have right now with that group and that cater are starting to build,

772
00:47:08.290 --> 00:47:10.630
but the challenge they're finding right now

773
00:47:11.010 --> 00:47:12.710
is that most of the investors

774
00:47:13.010 --> 00:47:13.730
in the space

775
00:47:14.770 --> 00:47:19.030
and and I'm mentioning this because I can see ten thirty one on your head.

776
00:47:20.325 --> 00:47:22.265
Most of the investors in the space

777
00:47:23.125 --> 00:47:27.625
still come at this from the mindset of the way we know this technology in the West.

778
00:47:28.325 --> 00:47:30.185
And they're still finding it developers,

779
00:47:30.565 --> 00:47:34.665
people building products in the global South are still finding it hard

780
00:47:35.340 --> 00:47:39.360
to communicate the their unique value with investors from the West.

781
00:47:40.140 --> 00:47:43.280
And and that's creating that's putting them in

782
00:47:44.300 --> 00:47:44.960
a funding

783
00:47:45.980 --> 00:47:46.960
blind spot.

784
00:47:48.140 --> 00:47:48.640
So

785
00:47:49.404 --> 00:47:49.904
they're

786
00:47:50.285 --> 00:47:51.345
too Bitcoin y for

787
00:47:52.365 --> 00:47:53.984
the typical crypto investor

788
00:47:55.005 --> 00:47:57.105
who want them to do every other coin.

789
00:47:58.684 --> 00:48:00.545
They're too crypto y for

790
00:48:01.530 --> 00:48:02.030
traditional

791
00:48:02.730 --> 00:48:03.710
fintech VCs

792
00:48:04.570 --> 00:48:06.990
who are afraid of anything that touches crypto.

793
00:48:08.570 --> 00:48:13.150
And they're not Bitcoin enough for their they're not Western Bitcoin enough

794
00:48:14.170 --> 00:48:15.390
for Bitcoin VCs,

795
00:48:17.585 --> 00:48:19.924
but we need more funding for those kind of people.

796
00:48:20.865 --> 00:48:21.345
There's,

797
00:48:21.744 --> 00:48:25.125
Jodom, one of our grantees in Kenya is building BitSaco.

798
00:48:26.145 --> 00:48:28.404
In lots of countries in in Africa,

799
00:48:30.470 --> 00:48:35.210
cooperatives, groups group savings is a big way is a big part of the financial

800
00:48:36.230 --> 00:48:38.170
system and experience for people.

801
00:48:38.710 --> 00:48:42.809
It has different names in different parts of Africa. In in where I'm from, they call it

802
00:48:43.190 --> 00:48:43.690
Esusu.

803
00:48:44.595 --> 00:48:46.375
In in Kenya, they call it Chalmers.

804
00:48:46.994 --> 00:48:51.095
So in in in many of these countries, even people who don't have traditional bank accounts

805
00:48:51.635 --> 00:48:52.855
are involved in cooperatives.

806
00:48:53.955 --> 00:48:55.095
This guy is building

807
00:48:55.475 --> 00:48:58.375
on Fedimint on Fedimint protocol. He's building,

808
00:49:00.590 --> 00:49:01.970
a a first Bitcoin native,

809
00:49:03.390 --> 00:49:03.890
cooperative

810
00:49:04.190 --> 00:49:05.170
payment system.

811
00:49:05.790 --> 00:49:09.010
And it's not just building that. They're also making this the

812
00:49:09.550 --> 00:49:10.845
the source code open

813
00:49:11.405 --> 00:49:16.385
so that anyone anywhere else in the world where they have a culture of cooperatives

814
00:49:16.925 --> 00:49:19.905
can actually build something similar on the Fedimint's protocol.

815
00:49:21.244 --> 00:49:22.305
One of our grantees

816
00:49:22.605 --> 00:49:27.250
in no. Not a grantee, but one of the one of my former students at CALA,

817
00:49:28.030 --> 00:49:30.770
they're building a platform in Nigeria called Mavapie,

818
00:49:31.630 --> 00:49:32.530
which basically,

819
00:49:33.150 --> 00:49:35.010
I wanna send money to my dad.

820
00:49:37.735 --> 00:49:38.375
I wanna

821
00:49:39.415 --> 00:49:40.635
I'm here right now.

822
00:49:41.735 --> 00:49:43.195
I can't send him Bitcoin.

823
00:49:44.295 --> 00:49:47.435
I mean, he's very old. He needs actual fiat.

824
00:49:47.980 --> 00:49:52.640
I send Bitcoin to a lightning address. It appears in his Fiat bank account instantly.

825
00:49:54.620 --> 00:49:59.440
And they're building APIs for merchants to be able to integrate that into the products that they're building.

826
00:50:00.220 --> 00:50:02.925
The applications like that that are that are being built

827
00:50:03.485 --> 00:50:08.625
that need support. So so I'd say Bitcoin VCs also need to expand their mind

828
00:50:09.165 --> 00:50:10.545
and realize that,

829
00:50:11.805 --> 00:50:14.705
if we want if we want this technology to truly scale,

830
00:50:15.339 --> 00:50:19.760
we need to start looking at and maybe even getting LPs or even

831
00:50:20.060 --> 00:50:21.920
looking for people on the front

832
00:50:22.700 --> 00:50:24.640
that also are steeped in

833
00:50:25.180 --> 00:50:27.435
in other realities beyond the West

834
00:50:27.835 --> 00:50:30.335
who can also help with both deal sourcing

835
00:50:30.715 --> 00:50:32.735
as well as deal vetting to see,

836
00:50:33.515 --> 00:50:41.695
and and to also understand the context of what's happening in the rest of the world as far as Bitcoin adoption is concerned. Because this is critical for scaling technology for sure.

837
00:50:43.070 --> 00:50:43.570
Awesome.

838
00:50:44.910 --> 00:50:53.810
I mean, I agree with you there. I mean, just a couple of highlights, things I would pull out is, first of all, I I I'm aware of Tondo. I haven't used it yet.

839
00:50:54.975 --> 00:50:59.235
We need to get you to Kenya to use it. Yeah. Because I I haven't been to Africa yet,

840
00:50:59.535 --> 00:51:02.675
and I I'm well aware that I I owe you a trip.

841
00:51:03.375 --> 00:51:06.435
But I have used Bitcoin Jungle in Costa Rica,

842
00:51:07.730 --> 00:51:11.029
which has an integration with SimPay, which is their mobile payment

843
00:51:11.329 --> 00:51:16.150
system based on phone numbers. And it's a similar situation where you pay with Bitcoin.

844
00:51:16.609 --> 00:51:19.589
The recipient just receives it to mobile pay. So, basically,

845
00:51:20.984 --> 00:51:24.765
every every merchant almost every person in Costa Rica can receive,

846
00:51:25.545 --> 00:51:32.045
money from you and you pay with Bitcoin. And the cool aspect there, because Bitcoin's an open protocol and Lightning's an open protocol,

847
00:51:32.950 --> 00:51:34.490
is is the developers,

848
00:51:35.270 --> 00:51:38.250
of Tondo don't need to talk to the developers

849
00:51:38.630 --> 00:51:39.690
of Bitcoin jungle.

850
00:51:39.990 --> 00:51:41.290
They are cross compatible

851
00:51:41.910 --> 00:51:47.050
just by by the mere fact that they both support Bitcoin, which I think is incredibly empowering,

852
00:51:47.845 --> 00:51:51.145
that people do not realize. Another piece that I would highlight here,

853
00:51:52.005 --> 00:51:54.745
mostly through my work with the Human Rights Foundation,

854
00:51:55.925 --> 00:51:57.545
is it's it's quite refreshing

855
00:51:58.005 --> 00:51:59.065
working with people,

856
00:52:00.050 --> 00:52:02.310
in the developing world, working with activists

857
00:52:02.770 --> 00:52:09.910
because you don't have to explain the need for Bitcoin. Like, they they understand the need for better money. They understand

858
00:52:10.290 --> 00:52:13.670
the need for something that they can spend and save without permission.

859
00:52:14.535 --> 00:52:24.714
They just wanna know, okay. So how do I use it? Like, what are the tools available to me? How how can I make this a reality in my life? While in America, it's very much even at this point still,

860
00:52:25.175 --> 00:52:35.580
you know, you you talk to the average American and you're explaining to them why they would need Bitcoin in the first place. You just skip that whole step Yep. When you talk to these people because they have

861
00:52:36.040 --> 00:52:39.980
a a real need. Now I would say on the venture side, I mean,

862
00:52:40.365 --> 00:52:41.105
we just,

863
00:52:41.645 --> 00:52:44.385
first of all, Bitcoin focused venture specifically

864
00:52:44.685 --> 00:52:50.305
is a drop in the bucket compared to the wider venture ecosystem. Like, ten thirty one is by far the largest,

865
00:52:51.645 --> 00:52:54.045
and we've deployed over a hundred $50,000,000

866
00:52:54.045 --> 00:52:56.540
into the ecosystem. But there is

867
00:52:57.560 --> 00:53:02.940
if you look at funds like a 16 z, Sequoia, like, they're raising billion dollar funds on a one off.

868
00:53:03.800 --> 00:53:06.860
So, like, we're still there's a lot of room to grow there. Obviously,

869
00:53:07.640 --> 00:53:11.260
we have a mandate to return value to investors and and

870
00:53:11.595 --> 00:53:12.095
and

871
00:53:13.035 --> 00:53:23.135
to and with Bitcoin being the opportunity cost, which is, like, the most difficult opportunity cost in the world to beat. So we have to be very balanced and deliberate about how we deploy funds. We can't be as risky.

872
00:53:24.110 --> 00:53:31.650
And we try and find a balance there. Like, we have funded Bitnub, which is based in Africa. We have funded IBEX that's based in Latin America. We have given

873
00:53:32.030 --> 00:53:37.890
a smaller check to FETI, and I like to think I was a big part of incubating the Fetterman project in general.

874
00:53:39.255 --> 00:53:54.070
But then you balance it out with something like Strike, which just has a very obvious business model that just mince cash and makes a lot of money. And you try and find that balance. Now the beautiful thing about something like OpenSats or the HRF development fund is the mandate is freedom.

875
00:53:54.690 --> 00:53:55.190
And

876
00:53:55.490 --> 00:53:59.670
and and you're so you're not necessarily trying to make a profit. So I think,

877
00:54:00.210 --> 00:54:07.190
ideally, the world is you have HRF, you have OpenSats, and they're kind of, like, incubating these ideas and getting them to a non dilutive

878
00:54:07.645 --> 00:54:10.545
point in their business model where then they can start taking

879
00:54:11.245 --> 00:54:12.625
actual equity investments.

880
00:54:13.005 --> 00:54:15.425
And then the last piece I would add there is

881
00:54:15.965 --> 00:54:23.770
there are very few investors that are willing to invest in free and open source projects because they they believe that the moat is closed source and proprietary.

882
00:54:24.390 --> 00:54:30.890
And I'm very proud that ten thirty one is is is unique in that regard. That not only do we invest in open source projects,

883
00:54:31.590 --> 00:54:31.990
but,

884
00:54:32.470 --> 00:54:40.635
we actually advocate for we do the opposite of what most investors do. So I try and encourage sometimes even slightly bully investors

885
00:54:41.175 --> 00:54:42.395
founders into

886
00:54:42.695 --> 00:54:44.155
open sourcing their code.

887
00:54:45.015 --> 00:54:45.515
So

888
00:54:46.230 --> 00:54:52.890
those are the pieces yeah. Go on, Femi. I will say, though. So so beyond the institutional investors, so one of the things I say is

889
00:54:53.590 --> 00:54:56.410
it it makes no sense to be working on money

890
00:54:57.430 --> 00:54:59.115
and be struggling for money.

891
00:55:00.075 --> 00:55:01.615
I know. That's brutal.

892
00:55:05.115 --> 00:55:07.695
The we need more angel investors in Bitcoin.

893
00:55:09.115 --> 00:55:10.255
A lot of the

894
00:55:10.635 --> 00:55:11.535
a lot of people's

895
00:55:11.915 --> 00:55:13.055
Bitcoin stock,

896
00:55:14.690 --> 00:55:21.670
There's certain portions of it that could easily that will wave a very long way. It may not go a long way in the West,

897
00:55:22.930 --> 00:55:24.869
but will go a very long way

898
00:55:25.569 --> 00:55:26.069
in

899
00:55:27.585 --> 00:55:30.885
Africa, in places in Latin America, and places in Asia

900
00:55:31.505 --> 00:55:32.885
as angel investment

901
00:55:33.744 --> 00:55:37.765
for people building interesting solutions that that advance Bitcoin

902
00:55:39.105 --> 00:55:40.165
and that solve

903
00:55:40.705 --> 00:55:41.605
local problems

904
00:55:42.570 --> 00:55:44.670
that help to show the utility of Bitcoin.

905
00:55:46.010 --> 00:55:48.990
And we need more people in the space

906
00:55:50.010 --> 00:55:50.510
potentially

907
00:55:51.610 --> 00:55:52.110
putting

908
00:55:52.410 --> 00:55:53.790
some of their stack

909
00:55:54.705 --> 00:55:55.925
as angel investments

910
00:55:56.225 --> 00:55:57.365
in Bitcoin companies.

911
00:55:58.545 --> 00:55:59.925
So rather than give

912
00:56:00.625 --> 00:56:02.165
and it's it's it's

913
00:56:03.025 --> 00:56:05.285
tough for me to say that working for a charity.

914
00:56:06.625 --> 00:56:07.125
But

915
00:56:07.900 --> 00:56:10.320
sometimes the way you can actually help

916
00:56:10.860 --> 00:56:11.360
projects

917
00:56:11.900 --> 00:56:14.480
and help grow the space in the global South

918
00:56:15.100 --> 00:56:16.320
is to actually find

919
00:56:17.660 --> 00:56:21.200
impact driven businesses in the global South that you can support

920
00:56:21.505 --> 00:56:24.724
and not just support that you can actually invest in for equity.

921
00:56:25.665 --> 00:56:26.165
So

922
00:56:26.465 --> 00:56:27.765
you have hundreds

923
00:56:28.465 --> 00:56:28.965
Bitcoin.

924
00:56:30.465 --> 00:56:33.045
5 Bitcoin is half a million dollars,

925
00:56:33.920 --> 00:56:35.700
just above half a million dollars.

926
00:56:36.320 --> 00:56:36.820
Right?

927
00:56:40.160 --> 00:56:44.180
That will go a huge way with a lot of companies that are being built.

928
00:56:47.995 --> 00:56:52.415
And and I think that's something that people in Bitcoin who are sitting on lots of Bitcoin

929
00:56:52.715 --> 00:56:54.735
potentially should be looking at doing.

930
00:56:55.755 --> 00:56:58.975
Don't just keep it don't just keep it in cold storage.

931
00:56:59.700 --> 00:57:02.119
Let some of it actually be catalysts

932
00:57:02.420 --> 00:57:04.040
in helping us grow the space.

933
00:57:04.820 --> 00:57:07.480
That makes sense to me. I mean, it's a weird

934
00:57:08.900 --> 00:57:11.160
it's a weird dynamic. I will say that,

935
00:57:14.865 --> 00:57:17.845
I've I've I mean, I've seen a lot of,

936
00:57:19.185 --> 00:57:19.425
I've

937
00:57:20.225 --> 00:57:23.605
the ten thirty one investor group is almost all

938
00:57:24.065 --> 00:57:24.565
Bitcoiners

939
00:57:25.025 --> 00:57:27.845
that want to give back and be part of the community

940
00:57:28.440 --> 00:57:31.020
and be more involved with individual founders.

941
00:57:32.200 --> 00:57:32.680
And,

942
00:57:34.839 --> 00:57:38.220
and and and and it's this kind of beautiful circular

943
00:57:38.680 --> 00:57:41.180
feedback loop. Right? Positive feedback loop where

944
00:57:41.575 --> 00:57:47.435
you make the Bitcoin ecosystem more robust, so then your remaining Bitcoin is also more valuable and more powerful.

945
00:57:48.375 --> 00:57:50.555
But then also at the same time, like,

946
00:57:51.335 --> 00:57:53.595
you know, when you can just sit there and hold Bitcoin

947
00:57:53.975 --> 00:57:55.915
and get, you know, 50%

948
00:57:56.740 --> 00:57:58.360
compound annual growth rate,

949
00:57:58.820 --> 00:58:03.560
it's really hard to justify taking risky investments. So so there's naturally

950
00:58:04.260 --> 00:58:07.080
at least at this point in the adoption cycle, there's naturally

951
00:58:07.700 --> 00:58:08.760
a lot of resistance

952
00:58:09.060 --> 00:58:13.025
to, you know, invest a portion of a Bitcoin stack into

953
00:58:13.565 --> 00:58:14.545
Bitcoin and,

954
00:58:15.885 --> 00:58:25.025
but I think that will get better over time. Like, I I think we're in a positive direction there also with donating to HRF or OpenStax or stuff. Like, a lot of Bitcoiners are very gracious.

955
00:58:25.500 --> 00:58:26.000
Absolutely.

956
00:58:26.300 --> 00:58:28.880
I really really appreciate that for sure.

957
00:58:29.420 --> 00:58:34.240
But I do agree. There's a bit of there's a bit of frustration there. And also, I would say that

958
00:58:34.620 --> 00:58:38.640
I mean, I'm at the it's funny too because I think we're aligned on this, you know, you,

959
00:58:39.455 --> 00:58:52.035
being a major part of of the HRF development grant and me with the open stats. But we're capitalists. Like, I I think if you have a profitable business, like, that's sustainable, that can scale. That that that takes it to the next level.

960
00:58:52.975 --> 00:58:53.715
And so

961
00:58:54.080 --> 00:59:01.300
I would love to see I would love to see more investment in the space. Like it like I said, if you look at it globally, it's a drop in the bucket.

962
00:59:01.840 --> 00:59:02.340
FEMI.

963
00:59:02.720 --> 00:59:09.140
Yes. We I know we have time constraints here. I know we have time constraints here. And you highlighted the Bitcoin Africa conference.

964
00:59:09.444 --> 00:59:09.944
Yes.

965
00:59:10.484 --> 00:59:14.505
Farida is one of the most inspirational people I've ever met.

966
00:59:14.805 --> 00:59:17.385
So why don't you just talk a little bit about

967
00:59:17.924 --> 00:59:23.730
the Africa Bitcoin conference? Why is it important? Why people should consider going? You know, how do you think about that?

968
00:59:24.770 --> 00:59:26.830
So I I mean, I

969
00:59:27.330 --> 00:59:31.830
my first ever conference in this space was the first ever become African Beacon Conference

970
00:59:32.210 --> 00:59:34.070
in Ghana in 2023.

971
00:59:34.450 --> 00:59:40.414
We still had it we since then had it once more in Ghana. Last year was in Kenya. This year, it's happening in Mauritius

972
00:59:41.115 --> 00:59:42.575
in the December.

973
00:59:44.234 --> 00:59:45.535
Farida is a powerhouse.

974
00:59:48.555 --> 00:59:49.295
In her

975
00:59:50.570 --> 00:59:52.270
late teens, early twenties,

976
00:59:53.370 --> 00:59:56.030
she led a protest movement to

977
00:59:56.810 --> 00:59:57.550
go after

978
00:59:58.090 --> 01:00:00.270
the oldest dictatorship in Africa,

979
01:00:01.210 --> 01:00:02.350
which is multigenerational.

980
01:00:05.215 --> 01:00:08.915
And even out of in exile, she's still fighting them,

981
01:00:10.815 --> 01:00:11.635
but in

982
01:00:11.935 --> 01:00:14.195
very with concrete, practical,

983
01:00:14.815 --> 01:00:16.035
pragmatic ways.

984
01:00:19.040 --> 01:00:28.020
And she she organized the first ever African Bitcoin conference, which was the first opportunity that Bitcoiners in Africa actually had to converge,

985
01:00:28.880 --> 01:00:30.900
get to know each other, build community,

986
01:00:32.065 --> 01:00:34.565
realize the interesting things that were happening across.

987
01:00:35.265 --> 01:00:36.245
One of the challenges,

988
01:00:36.705 --> 01:00:38.565
we have as a continent, unfortunately,

989
01:00:39.265 --> 01:00:41.045
because of our history and colonization,

990
01:00:42.545 --> 01:00:44.165
Africans hardly convey

991
01:00:45.105 --> 01:00:46.245
without an external

992
01:00:47.160 --> 01:00:48.859
power bringing them together.

993
01:00:49.960 --> 01:00:51.099
The African Bitcoin

994
01:00:51.640 --> 01:00:53.020
conference is a convening

995
01:00:53.559 --> 01:00:55.099
for Africans by Africans.

996
01:00:56.680 --> 01:00:57.180
It's

997
01:00:57.640 --> 01:01:00.615
going strong. It's going stronger than ever.

998
01:01:01.975 --> 01:01:03.035
It's evolved

999
01:01:03.975 --> 01:01:08.715
to it's now community owned and community supported. Farida still leads the organizing

1000
01:01:09.175 --> 01:01:09.675
team,

1001
01:01:10.215 --> 01:01:14.075
but with lots of input from other parts of the African Bitcoin ecosystem.

1002
01:01:15.660 --> 01:01:20.320
It's a it's probably the highest signal conference in Bitcoin

1003
01:01:21.260 --> 01:01:24.480
because we don't have time for number go up conversations.

1004
01:01:26.700 --> 01:01:28.400
The focus is is

1005
01:01:29.765 --> 01:01:30.665
very practical,

1006
01:01:30.965 --> 01:01:32.905
how people are using Bitcoin

1007
01:01:33.525 --> 01:01:35.465
in different countries across Africa,

1008
01:01:36.965 --> 01:01:38.505
as a hedge against inflation,

1009
01:01:39.365 --> 01:01:42.185
as a way to solve the problem of the banking,

1010
01:01:42.880 --> 01:01:43.700
as a way

1011
01:01:44.400 --> 01:01:46.580
to prevent oneself from censorship

1012
01:01:47.040 --> 01:01:47.940
and surveillance

1013
01:01:48.240 --> 01:01:48.740
by,

1014
01:01:49.599 --> 01:01:51.300
in many cases, terror states,

1015
01:01:52.400 --> 01:01:53.380
as a way to

1016
01:01:54.720 --> 01:01:55.220
seamlessly

1017
01:01:55.520 --> 01:01:56.020
connect

1018
01:01:56.400 --> 01:01:57.780
with global trade,

1019
01:01:58.725 --> 01:02:00.185
because Africa is

1020
01:02:00.485 --> 01:02:00.985
Africa

1021
01:02:01.525 --> 01:02:03.385
is, in many ways, systematically

1022
01:02:03.765 --> 01:02:05.465
excluded from global trade.

1023
01:02:06.245 --> 01:02:07.305
Once you create

1024
01:02:07.685 --> 01:02:08.825
excessive friction

1025
01:02:09.605 --> 01:02:12.180
from being able to trade with the rest of the world,

1026
01:02:12.660 --> 01:02:16.040
The resultant effect is that you won't get enough trade.

1027
01:02:16.420 --> 01:02:19.240
You won't get enough trade means that you will not

1028
01:02:19.780 --> 01:02:21.000
generate enough wealth,

1029
01:02:21.380 --> 01:02:25.000
which means you'd be the continent that everyone is sending aid donations

1030
01:02:25.300 --> 01:02:25.800
to.

1031
01:02:28.125 --> 01:02:31.025
That said, even even with the aid donations,

1032
01:02:31.325 --> 01:02:33.825
more money goes to Africa through the diaspora,

1033
01:02:34.685 --> 01:02:35.185
actually,

1034
01:02:35.725 --> 01:02:36.225
than

1035
01:02:36.765 --> 01:02:38.625
VC investments, than international

1036
01:02:38.925 --> 01:02:39.745
aid combined.

1037
01:02:40.340 --> 01:02:42.840
Right? But that's not part of the popular narrative.

1038
01:02:43.860 --> 01:02:45.560
What the African Bitcoin conference

1039
01:02:46.020 --> 01:02:48.760
is doing is creating a way to actually diffuse

1040
01:02:49.300 --> 01:02:50.360
interesting ideas

1041
01:02:51.140 --> 01:02:52.280
across the continent,

1042
01:02:53.375 --> 01:02:57.474
but also change and challenge the narrative about how Africans

1043
01:02:58.255 --> 01:02:59.875
are solving Africa's problem

1044
01:03:00.494 --> 01:03:02.994
using Bitcoin as a tool to do that.

1045
01:03:04.015 --> 01:03:07.714
HRF has been a sponsor of the conference from the beginning.

1046
01:03:09.030 --> 01:03:13.450
We are spot we are a continuous sponsor of the of the event.

1047
01:03:14.390 --> 01:03:18.970
It's a big part of our own calendar too as a team, as a financial freedom team,

1048
01:03:20.070 --> 01:03:21.130
at HRF.

1049
01:03:21.510 --> 01:03:23.690
Last year, we had five members of staff

1050
01:03:24.365 --> 01:03:25.265
at the conference.

1051
01:03:26.924 --> 01:03:31.825
Probably more than any other conference. Okay. Outside the ones that we organize ourself.

1052
01:03:33.164 --> 01:03:39.490
The same event this year, we're also actively involved in there. Again, because a lot of the activists that we support,

1053
01:03:40.270 --> 01:03:41.730
many of them are in,

1054
01:03:42.350 --> 01:03:44.610
authoritarian regimes in the African continent.

1055
01:03:45.150 --> 01:03:48.450
And so it's it's it's again scratching our own itch.

1056
01:03:48.750 --> 01:03:51.570
The African Bitcoin ecosystem grows strong.

1057
01:03:52.065 --> 01:03:57.045
It means more solutions locally that the activists that we're supporting in Africa can leverage

1058
01:03:57.585 --> 01:04:05.125
in their fight for democracy and, human rights. And, yeah, we're we're very proud of the conference. It's also been a very big

1059
01:04:05.859 --> 01:04:06.359
convener,

1060
01:04:08.420 --> 01:04:11.960
because we we we we we're one continent, but we barely meet.

1061
01:04:13.380 --> 01:04:15.560
Flights are expensive across the continent.

1062
01:04:16.980 --> 01:04:20.040
It's there there are too many frictions for us to integrate,

1063
01:04:20.724 --> 01:04:24.825
but that conference enables us to eat in the Bitcoin space. And

1064
01:04:25.125 --> 01:04:32.345
a lot of great things have come out of that and yeah. Really, really excited about it this year. It's in the beautiful island nation of Mauritius.

1065
01:04:34.430 --> 01:04:35.569
I think it's the

1066
01:04:36.109 --> 01:04:41.250
the third to the fifth, if I'm not wrong, or second to the fifth of December. So very early in December.

1067
01:04:41.869 --> 01:04:46.130
So anyone who's listening, who's interested, afrobitcoin.org,

1068
01:04:46.715 --> 01:04:48.175
I believe, is the website.

1069
01:04:49.675 --> 01:04:52.815
We'll be very happy. We it's it's not just for Africans.

1070
01:04:54.155 --> 01:04:58.015
We welcome people from all across the world that want to be part of the experience.

1071
01:04:59.559 --> 01:05:03.819
I love it. Yeah. I really need to I really need to make it to that conference.

1072
01:05:04.359 --> 01:05:05.660
I've always said good things.

1073
01:05:09.799 --> 01:05:11.660
Femi, this has been a great chat.

1074
01:05:13.240 --> 01:05:13.740
I

1075
01:05:16.035 --> 01:05:21.974
I will just echo family statement even as someone who hasn't been to the conference yet, but as someone who

1076
01:05:22.835 --> 01:05:25.175
has heard much about it and is

1077
01:05:27.210 --> 01:05:30.750
fortunate enough to be I've I once again, I love Fareeda. Fareeda's

1078
01:05:31.290 --> 01:05:37.070
awesome. And a lot of I'm I'm fortunate to call a lot of people in the African Bitcoin community friends.

1079
01:05:37.609 --> 01:05:40.670
People should can really consider going if you can make it work.

1080
01:05:42.765 --> 01:05:50.785
It's it's a I've heard it's a very special event. And if you're going if you're going to anyone who's coming, make sure you take at least the week extra

1081
01:05:51.244 --> 01:05:53.425
because you It's a long trip too.

1082
01:05:53.900 --> 01:05:57.920
It's a beautiful country. It's a long trip. So you want you want to see the country.

1083
01:06:00.460 --> 01:06:02.400
I think in general, like, if you're gonna

1084
01:06:02.940 --> 01:06:06.320
if you're gonna do conferences, like, don't go to every conference.

1085
01:06:06.665 --> 01:06:13.405
Yep. Don't, like, do the traveling roadshow where you're, like, the same people are flying from conference to conference the whole year,

1086
01:06:13.705 --> 01:06:18.365
like, away from your family. Do, like, a good two weeks somewhere. Like, get to under you know,

1087
01:06:19.480 --> 01:06:22.700
like, learn be with the community, learn with the community,

1088
01:06:23.080 --> 01:06:26.380
ex experience the experience, and and do it the right way.

1089
01:06:26.920 --> 01:06:29.500
But Africa, particularly, like, I didn't

1090
01:06:30.040 --> 01:06:35.644
really appreciate how far away it was. It's quite far away, and Africa is freaking huge

1091
01:06:36.184 --> 01:06:40.924
as a in terms of size. Like, people do not appreciate how big of a continent it is.

1092
01:06:41.865 --> 01:06:44.204
Femi, we're at the end of,

1093
01:06:44.720 --> 01:06:48.579
I'm I'm very cautious of your time here. I know your time is is scarce,

1094
01:06:50.559 --> 01:06:59.460
and I don't wanna take too much more of your time. Do you that this is a great conversation. I really appreciate you coming on. I would love to have you back on more frequently. I think that would be great

1095
01:06:59.795 --> 01:07:00.295
as

1096
01:07:00.675 --> 01:07:01.655
as new developments,

1097
01:07:02.515 --> 01:07:03.495
happen. But,

1098
01:07:04.275 --> 01:07:07.475
before we wrap here, what are your final thoughts for,

1099
01:07:07.955 --> 01:07:08.615
the listeners?

1100
01:07:09.235 --> 01:07:09.735
So

1101
01:07:10.355 --> 01:07:13.735
two on two fronts. So I've talked about the Beacon Development Fund.

1102
01:07:14.300 --> 01:07:17.840
We're giving a million dollars every quarter to twenty twenty five projects,

1103
01:07:19.100 --> 01:07:27.119
that either help us advance the the the technically, the the the features of Bitcoin we want or that help us get Bitcoin in the hands of activists.

1104
01:07:27.654 --> 01:07:29.035
So I want people to apply.

1105
01:07:29.575 --> 01:07:40.075
We have a backlog, but I'm constantly looking for what interesting thing is are people building in the space. So if you're building a Bitcoin project, an eCash project, a nonstop project,

1106
01:07:41.390 --> 01:07:43.090
an Internet freedom project,

1107
01:07:44.510 --> 01:07:45.410
or an education

1108
01:07:45.710 --> 01:07:47.730
project for targeted demographic,

1109
01:07:49.790 --> 01:07:53.170
or a translation project, a user experience project,

1110
01:07:55.005 --> 01:07:55.744
please apply.

1111
01:07:56.605 --> 01:08:00.224
Please apply. I I have a brilliant job, which is to give away money.

1112
01:08:01.405 --> 01:08:04.625
Well, at least money to the right projects, and and so

1113
01:08:05.244 --> 01:08:06.704
yours might be the right project.

1114
01:08:07.599 --> 01:08:10.580
And and then I guess the second thing I'll also say is,

1115
01:08:11.280 --> 01:08:13.140
if you're sitting on a lot of Bitcoin

1116
01:08:13.920 --> 01:08:16.420
and you wanna support projects in the space,

1117
01:08:17.120 --> 01:08:19.380
we are a good channel for you to do that.

1118
01:08:19.715 --> 01:08:21.255
So again, if you go to,

1119
01:08:22.595 --> 01:08:24.775
humanrightshrf.org,

1120
01:08:26.035 --> 01:08:27.655
slash donate, I believe,

1121
01:08:27.955 --> 01:08:32.935
or / dev fund, and you'll find a donation button there. Please feel free to donate

1122
01:08:33.510 --> 01:08:35.610
some of your Bitcoin to us at the Bitcoin,

1123
01:08:36.389 --> 01:08:37.449
development fund.

1124
01:08:37.829 --> 01:08:39.210
We put it to good use,

1125
01:08:40.309 --> 01:08:43.369
for to projects that actually help us, advance,

1126
01:08:44.070 --> 01:08:46.170
Bitcoin, advance human rights,

1127
01:08:46.725 --> 01:08:49.605
and and and generally advance the world. And,

1128
01:08:50.165 --> 01:08:52.185
we're very, very happy to work with you,

1129
01:08:53.125 --> 01:08:54.585
to do that. Yep.

1130
01:08:55.045 --> 01:08:55.705
That's it.

1131
01:08:56.405 --> 01:09:00.005
Love it. Yeah. That's hrf.org/devfund.

1132
01:09:00.005 --> 01:09:04.970
There's buttons there to donate. There's a button there to apply depending on which side you are,

1133
01:09:06.150 --> 01:09:10.170
or you could be the rare unicorn that both donates and applies. Great.

1134
01:09:11.830 --> 01:09:14.570
I, I will put those links in the show notes.

1135
01:09:14.870 --> 01:09:15.930
I will just reiterate

1136
01:09:16.390 --> 01:09:17.530
that from my experience,

1137
01:09:18.085 --> 01:09:22.905
your whole team is fantastic. Super high integrity individuals. You guys are doing amazing work.

1138
01:09:23.605 --> 01:09:25.704
It's an honor and a privilege to

1139
01:09:27.125 --> 01:09:30.344
to to know you all and and work alongside you guys.

1140
01:09:31.080 --> 01:09:33.260
Freaks, I hope you enjoyed this conversation.

1141
01:09:35.400 --> 01:09:38.060
If you support the show, thank you for supporting the show.

1142
01:09:38.520 --> 01:09:48.445
I couldn't do without you guys, particularly, like, people who join us for the live chats. I know it's hard to take some time from your busy day to participate, but, it is what makes this show unique.

1143
01:09:50.265 --> 01:09:54.685
Then on Friday, I have Alex Gleeson joining us at sixteen hundred UTC.

1144
01:09:55.380 --> 01:09:58.840
Alex is one of the guys who helped build truth social for Trump.

1145
01:09:59.620 --> 01:10:05.720
And now he's focused on Nasr, Bitcoin, and AI. So that should be a really good conversation. So keep an eye out for that.

1146
01:10:06.100 --> 01:10:09.960
As always, every link for dispatch is at cildispatch.com.

1147
01:10:10.275 --> 01:10:11.735
Sharing the show really helps.

1148
01:10:12.515 --> 01:10:14.215
So share with friends and family.

1149
01:10:15.155 --> 01:10:17.095
We're on every major platform. Femi,

1150
01:10:17.955 --> 01:10:20.775
thank you. This is a great conversation. I wish you well,

1151
01:10:21.657 --> 01:10:23.358
and, we'll talk soon.

1152
01:10:23.738 --> 01:10:25.758
Talk soon. Bye. Bye, everyone.

1153
01:10:26.457 --> 01:10:29.037
Love you, freaks. Stay on the stack sets. Peace.