CD158: STEPHEN POLLOCK - BITCOIN POLICY INSTITUTE AND FREE SAMOURAI

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Transcription provided by Podhome.fm
Created: 05/05/2025 20:55:26
Duration: 5987.883
Channels: 1

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The innovations

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and the vision

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and the excitement

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and the knowledge base

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is in this room. There's so much to share with other people,

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so we can work together,

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to make this happen.

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The strategic reserve represents a stockpile of the most valuable

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asset,

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but it also represents

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digital property. It represents a a digital asset that will generate rent that can be developed, that can be financed over time. Right? It's worth anywhere from 3,000,000,000,000

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to a hundred and 6,000,000,000,000 depending upon how programmatic and aggressive we want to pursue this opportunity.

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These opportunities don't come along often.

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This is the once in a century opportunity.

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Bitcoin is like digital gold. It is a store of value, and it's easy to transport.

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It doesn't have devaluation,

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and so this is why it should be bipartisan, and it is something that, will help empower people economically. And a lot of the next generation

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have used it as a the best use of storage.

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And so this is now a serious policy objective that the administration intends to pursue. I don't think this is a flash in the pan, and this is just the beginning. We have, you know,

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almost four more years of a Trump administration

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where Bitcoin policy, I think, will be among the top items on the agenda. And I view the Bitcoin strategic reserve as a pivotal moment

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when contrasted

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to the last century of economic policy to come out of our nation's capital. Bit bonds are a win win win.

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We're looking at dramatically lower

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interest rates in the form of savings, $554,000,000,000.

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And Bitcoin mining can shut down their facilities,

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their operations in minutes, and then ramp them back up, all driven by signals from the power grid.

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I think the story of the past few years is Bitcoin going from a niche interest into a respectable global macro asset. The announcement of strategic reserve that the, you know, executive branch of the United States is going to say that Bitcoin has value, value that's different than other digital assets, and has value that is worthy of putting into a strategic reserve for the long term betterment of the country.

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The story of humanity is engineering a better world, and I think America is the best example of that. So I view Bitcoin in line with the American story and,

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the next evolution of humans engineering a better world.

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Stablecoins

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can be

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the killer app on top of a network that it's open, decentralized,

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can reach where the dollar cannot,

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and can really complement

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US values and principle anywhere in the world. When you think about the ethos of America,

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what are the set of ideals that bind together this great country?

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In the idea that no matter who you are or where your parents came from, you can achieve the maximum of your potential without any government or dicta standing in your way.

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We as human beings need symbols to reground ourselves in that ethos, and I think Bitcoin can be one of those symbols.

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Bitcoin Policy Institute

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has become a thought leader. BPI has assembled the great thought leaders in America

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about digital assets and their significance in the future.

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The team in the White House that wants to help make America

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the great leader in digital asset.

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BPI is their present,

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helping

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make that agenda

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a reality.

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Happy Bitcoin Monday, freaks. It's your host, Odell, here

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for another Cielo Dispatch.

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The interactive live show focused on actionable

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Bitcoin and FreedomTech

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discussion.

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That intro clip

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was, to pump us up. It was a pump up video,

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put out by

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the gentleman at Bitcoin Policy Institute,

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about their last event that they had last month. We'll be talking about their larger event that is coming up next month shortly.

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But before I get there,

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I just wanna thank everyone for supporting the show.

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by viewers like you supporting the show

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You can do that twofold. You can

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zap the show when it's live. Our Nostril livestream is always available at silldispatch.com/stream.

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All links in general are at silldispatch.com,

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or you can zap through your favorite podcasting two point o app in your podcast feeds.

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Fountain Podcasts

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Our largest zap from last week's rip on fountain was a thousand sets from

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Martin

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Baralik.

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And he said, listening to you while cooking lunch for the family, the vibe I've got at the end from the music was priceless onward.

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Cheers to that. That was a bugle banger that we ended last week with. But, anyway, guys,

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I have, I've done a couple shows about Bitcoin Policy Institute. As some of you might be aware, I'm one of the founding board members

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of, the organization.

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But I brought on a new guest, a fresh face

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that most people do not know. I believe this is his podcast, Virginity.

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We have Steven Pollock here,

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as the the VP of development

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at Bitcoin Policy Institute. He's in charge with

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helping make sure that funding

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much needed funding comes into the org. How's it going, Steven?

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It's going well, man. How are you?

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It's going great. Am I correct that this is your amen.

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Am I correct that this is your first time on a podcast?

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You know, I,

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I think I did one,

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with CK. I think CK got me, like,

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three years ago,

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but it's been a drought since. I guess I I did so well

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that,

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nobody has had me on in two or three years.

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What show was that? CK's done a bunch.

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It was the,

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it was the Bitcoin mag, you know, podcast he used to do.

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Yeah.

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Very descriptive.

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I don't know. I don't remember which one it was. It was a long time ago.

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Well, hopefully, this one will be good enough that you'll actually remember doing it.

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And thank you for joining us.

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I'm sure it'll be very memorable.

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Yeah, man. Anytime. Thanks for having me on, and excited to, rip as the kids say these days.

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So,

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I queued it up. It was a surprise to you. You didn't know that I was using,

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the BPI pump up video to start her off. And you let me know right before we started

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recording,

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right before we went live, that you actually produced this video.

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I did. Yeah. I did. I I didn't film it, but I produced it.

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And,

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we,

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you know yeah, man. We're proud of that thing. We're proud of the event, and

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so excited for everybody to check it out. Thanks for showing it. We just got that done a couple weeks ago.

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What does that mean that you produced it?

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Yeah. It's basically,

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you hire the people who filmed it.

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And,

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and then you're you kinda tell, you know, how you want it to turn out, and you, you know, you order,

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you know, you kinda say, oh, I need to got here. Let's make sure and feature these speakers. Here's kind of the flow,

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you know, of how you want the video to go. And so you take all the credit,

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and don't do most of the work. And it's kind of the main I did the interviews,

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at least some of them.

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I did most of the interviews in planning for the shoot, but,

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but we hire some guys I know from back home that are really strong,

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videographers, and and they did a great job on it.

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Love it. Without

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me, Matt.

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Yeah. You're the instrumental you're the instrumental piece.

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I mean, so we started over the video. I mean, I think that's the best place to start because I was there in DC for that event. I mean, it it blew me away. It was it's kind of one of those moments,

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you know, when you you look around, you see all the suits, you know, like, holy shit, what timeline are we in?

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That will stick with me for a while. But you wanna just talk a little bit about what that event was, what takeaways you got from it,

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how you guys are thinking about it?

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Yeah.

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There's a few there's a few things to examine,

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with the Bitcoin for America that

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and I don't know, you know, what's been shared before, but,

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we this wasn't something we, as BPI, were planning to do.

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One, we're busy enough as it is, especially in the spring.

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And then two, we already have our summit, which is coming up in June, and we'll talk about that later. But this is the third year we're doing the Bitcoin policy summit,

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and we kinda do it late spring or early summer.

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So we're already planning that, which is to anyone who's done, you know, even small events, you know, how much goes into that.

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And we, I guess, got into February.

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You know, there's the whole strategic Bitcoin reserve,

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you know, movement,

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that was going on,

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and we kinda stuck our fingers in the air. The winds were, you know, a little awry, it felt like. And,

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there was,

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obviously, XRP

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and the ripple

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goons were,

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you know, doing their thing and trying to get involved, and everybody wants to get involved when things are going well.

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So, you know, there was this impression

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in Washington

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that

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there was not alignment

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from,

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most of the community and most of the whether it's lobbyists or, you know, trade groups or whatever you wanna call it, the, you know, sort of the the crew

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about what they wanted,

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from an executive order or from, you know, from a policy standpoint. And while there's you know, alignment is sort of a, you know, a funny thing like that. I don't think anyone's ever been aligned on anything in the history of Washington, DC,

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including, like, what they were gonna put in the constitution, all sorts of things.

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But you use we had some form. Like, I think the what I'm try the point I'm trying to get at is that the message

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was that was being circulated was, like, completely wrong.

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And

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we were sorta like,

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man, if some I wish somebody would do something. It sort of, like, brings all the Bitcoiners together, all the CEOs, all the, you know, all the

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influential companies,

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all the, trusted voices,

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and,

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sort of concretize

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our opinion and say, hey. We are on the same page. We think, you know, Bitcoin is good for America.

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And, because of that, we have these various opinions and things that we would like to see enacted.

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And it was kinda one of those

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I can't believe nobody's doing that. Like, somebody needs to do something.

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And somebody threw out the idea of doing an event,

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and we were like, oh, that's ridiculous. We're already planning one.

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But, you know, it needed to happen sooner rather than later. So we I think we threw together

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days.

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The industry,

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like,

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all the Bitcoiners, all the executives, everybody who spoke.

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Obviously, it wouldn't have been cool at all if they had shown up and changed their calendars and rearrange schedule be there for this. And so,

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you know, we kinda threw this idea out there, and everyone really aligned with it. And I thought it went I thought it went really well.

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I think one of the cool things, one of the highlights for me was hearing about Bitbonds from Andrew Hones. I know that's kinda went viral since then.

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That was, like,

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you know, that was really cool to see and and to see,

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it being embraced by, like, you know, the DC alley cats and the Bitcoin community both kinda being like, oh, interesting. That's an intriguing idea. I like it when that happens, When we're seeing both sides kind of engage with an idea, it doesn't happen that often. So,

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I'll take that as a win.

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Yeah. What else?

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What'd you think, man? Like, the suit like, you just kinda felt the, like, oh my god. This is real when you were there. What else struck you about the event?

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I mean, you saw me. I was I think I was one of three people that weren't wearing suits when I was there.

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Yeah. Yeah.

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I mean I mean, to

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to,

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tie on to your,

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your earlier comment about taking all the credit, you know, Andrew Hones,

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the the man who presented BitBonds, he is the founder of Battery, which ten thirty one is the exclusive investor of.

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Naturally. So I'll take a tiny bit of credit,

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for getting him very excited about Bitcoin. He's also a ride or die freak. But I I agree. I think,

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I think his bit bonds proposal has a lot of natural energy behind it on on both sides, both on the Bitcoin side and on the government side.

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You cut off a little bit. I

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I think you when did how long did it take to put together? I felt like it was, like, five weeks or six weeks to get the show together.

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Yeah. It was, like, thirty day.

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Am I back now? You hear me alright?

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Yeah. No. It's just every once in a while, it drops

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something. But besides that, we can mostly hear you.

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Alright. I don't know if freaks in the comments.

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It might just be me. It might just be my side. In the comments, let us know if you can hear them alright.

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But it it blew my mind. Like, I remember talking to, David Zell,

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one of the cofounders of Bitcoin Policy Institute. And he was like, should we do this thing and and beat beat the shit corners

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out the door and, you know, get our event out there. I was like, yeah. Let's do it.

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And then, like, a week later, like, planning had begun, and it just, like, fucking happened. So that was pretty fucking cool.

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Well, one thing that was really helpful

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was that,

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we had alignment

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with, senator Lummis' team. So

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Connor Brown, the senator, her whole team,

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I don't know how it all you know, all the behind the scenes stuff worked, but we we cohosted. They were a cohost. And so,

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you know, I don't know who came up with the whole damn thing, but,

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once we were moving on it,

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they were carrying a lot of water too. You know? They and so we couldn't have done it with, you know, without them, obviously,

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and that helps

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speed. You know, you normally get one of two things. You get speed or you get quality. Right? And so you can do a quick event,

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you kinda sacrifice quality,

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or you can do a great event and plan for, like, nine months.

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This is the rare exception where we did both, and,

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I'll be honest with you. It's one of my if not my favorite Bitcoin event I've ever been to, I think definitely one of the most impactful.

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And I'm not just saying that because it was ours. I think I'm saying that because of who showed up, who tuned in, and what happened before, during, and after the event.

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Events

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are fun. You know? Like, we like doing them,

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as, you know, a community.

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I don't just like planning events for the sake of it. I plan plenty,

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and I don't need another one, but this was,

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strategic. You know? And I think that's something

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that I really value about

235
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Bitcoin Policy Institute and why I enjoy working on,

236
00:16:51.340 --> 00:16:51.840
events

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is because they're they're levers,

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they're tools,

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and something we think very carefully about,

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to get the right people there,

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to speak, to get the right people there to listen

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and observe

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and, to help sort of fundamentally shift even a couple degrees,

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opinion on certain matters and perspective.

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I think establishing

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some baseline education is important.

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But also through those who do have that education, it's important to

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to continue to build on it.

249
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I'm not you know, I think it's a

250
00:17:27.430 --> 00:17:31.370
it's a great goal to say, hey. We need like, we don't even have

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00:17:31.795 --> 00:17:35.095
this is something we can get into later, but we don't even have, like, a kindergartner level

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00:17:35.475 --> 00:17:35.975
education

253
00:17:36.435 --> 00:17:37.255
when it comes

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to elected officials and staffers in Washington, DC,

255
00:17:40.995 --> 00:17:42.135
with regards to Bitcoin.

256
00:17:43.315 --> 00:17:48.270
But just because we achieved that goal doesn't mean job done. Great job. Everybody go home.

257
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As as you've you've seen, like,

258
00:17:52.010 --> 00:17:57.150
if there's anything more dangerous than, like, not knowing anything about something, it's knowing

259
00:17:57.450 --> 00:17:59.550
a little bit and thinking you know everything.

260
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And so,

261
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you know, we're just, I guess, working ourselves into more work,

262
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but I think it's worth it.

263
00:18:07.695 --> 00:18:14.995
Love it. We got Mav twenty one, ride or die freak, proving that zaps are working in the comments. He zapped 10,000 subs,

264
00:18:15.470 --> 00:18:17.570
said, yo. What's good, Mav?

265
00:18:18.270 --> 00:18:21.170
I mean, on that note, one of the cool things you guys announced

266
00:18:24.030 --> 00:18:29.570
during that event was that you guys plan on putting a Bitcoiner in every congressional office.

267
00:18:30.395 --> 00:18:32.975
Do you have any insight on that? I think that's pretty baller.

268
00:18:33.914 --> 00:18:34.414
Yeah.

269
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I don't know about every I mean, I think we definitely could do every office.

270
00:18:39.835 --> 00:18:40.395
So there's

271
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I don't know if we I don't I don't recall that part, Matt. But, yes, we will put the plan is to put,

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Bitcoiners in.

273
00:18:48.679 --> 00:18:49.179
It's,

274
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thanks for taking a great idea and and turning it into an impossible one. I appreciate that. Well, we didn't get

275
00:18:57.285 --> 00:19:05.045
we didn't get this far thinking small, Steve. That's true. That's true. We're gonna put 10 in every congressional office is what we're gonna do. Yeah.

276
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So there is a

277
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I did announce

278
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that we're gonna do a congressional fellowship program.

279
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We're gonna begin putting that into place

280
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over the next year. And so really excited about that. Basically, you're you're,

281
00:19:18.730 --> 00:19:22.830
as a nonprofit in different groups, you can sort of fund staffers,

282
00:19:24.235 --> 00:19:29.294
and, imagine that, private private groups funding the government. It it's unbelievable.

283
00:19:29.914 --> 00:19:30.654
It's magic.

284
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And so you can you can basically put this person in office as a resource

285
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and,

286
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provide that service,

287
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and they obviously work for the office, and and so,

288
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we're facilitating

289
00:19:43.930 --> 00:19:58.525
that. And it's a project we're really excited about. I think, I think it's gonna be really, really cool. We can get some great people in there that are they're excited about working, with congressional offices and staffing that. And a lot of this I'm friends with a lot of staff. I mean, I don't I don't work on the hill,

290
00:19:59.065 --> 00:20:03.165
but, you know, we've got our different different friends in mind just from over the years.

291
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And,

292
00:20:05.090 --> 00:20:09.270
the ones who work for cool offices, you know, that that get it,

293
00:20:09.650 --> 00:20:14.370
they really enjoy working with Bitcoiners. Like, they they're like, they love it. You know?

294
00:20:15.010 --> 00:20:17.535
Everybody's pretty cool, fun to hang out with,

295
00:20:18.095 --> 00:20:19.475
eager to educate,

296
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and help,

297
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help them be, you know, be good at their jobs.

298
00:20:25.455 --> 00:20:28.675
You know, I think anyone who helps you do your job better,

299
00:20:29.775 --> 00:20:32.515
just out of the kindness of their heart or because they care,

300
00:20:32.899 --> 00:20:33.940
you're going to,

301
00:20:34.500 --> 00:20:47.480
you're gonna you're gonna you're gonna like people. And I think Bitcoiners, whether it's, you know, down in Austin, there's an event going down there, or the big events, the big tentpole like Bitcoin conferences or if you come to one of our summits.

302
00:20:48.745 --> 00:20:52.365
And part of the reason we love Bitcoiners coming to our summit is because,

303
00:20:53.865 --> 00:20:57.885
the unique experience when government officials, elected leaders, policymakers,

304
00:20:58.505 --> 00:21:01.565
staffers rub shoulders with just, like, normal Bitcoiners,

305
00:21:02.424 --> 00:21:03.725
they're always impressed,

306
00:21:05.010 --> 00:21:07.270
one, by, like, how smart everybody is.

307
00:21:08.450 --> 00:21:12.070
Two, how nice everyone is and how helpful they are and

308
00:21:13.090 --> 00:21:13.750
and kind.

309
00:21:14.290 --> 00:21:18.390
And I'm I'm painting with a broad brush because I'm sure there's some assholes out there.

310
00:21:18.934 --> 00:21:23.115
We probably got two of them on camera right now, but everybody else is pretty nice,

311
00:21:23.975 --> 00:21:26.775
and and fun to fun to hang out with. So,

312
00:21:27.335 --> 00:21:28.775
so, yeah, I think that's

313
00:21:29.495 --> 00:21:32.235
I I know it's ridiculous that that's, like, a surprising,

314
00:21:33.710 --> 00:21:37.810
outcome. But if you see some of the people that they have to put up with,

315
00:21:38.590 --> 00:21:40.450
especially with different, you know, groups,

316
00:21:40.830 --> 00:21:44.930
it's it's refreshing, I think, is the best word. Bitcoiners, I think, are refreshing

317
00:21:46.595 --> 00:21:47.095
to,

318
00:21:47.634 --> 00:21:50.294
to those who have spent a lot of time in in Washington.

319
00:21:50.595 --> 00:21:53.254
And that's a that's a huge compliment, in my opinion.

320
00:21:54.355 --> 00:21:58.134
Yeah. I mean, that's not surprising to me. Bitcoiners are the best people. So,

321
00:21:59.000 --> 00:22:00.620
it lines up with my bias.

322
00:22:01.240 --> 00:22:03.179
I, to be clear here,

323
00:22:03.559 --> 00:22:04.059
BPI

324
00:22:04.440 --> 00:22:04.940
facilitates

325
00:22:05.240 --> 00:22:05.980
and places

326
00:22:06.519 --> 00:22:08.700
the Bitcoiners in the congressional offices.

327
00:22:09.559 --> 00:22:13.115
But once they're in once an office takes the person,

328
00:22:13.655 --> 00:22:16.395
then they no longer report to BPI. They're effectively,

329
00:22:18.135 --> 00:22:20.155
staff of that office. Right?

330
00:22:20.855 --> 00:22:22.235
That's right. That's right.

331
00:22:23.335 --> 00:22:24.475
They, yeah, they

332
00:22:24.799 --> 00:22:30.480
they don't report. No. None of the staffers would report to us. We're just facilitating them to be able to,

333
00:22:30.880 --> 00:22:31.540
we're facilitating,

334
00:22:32.400 --> 00:22:34.660
like, a conduit. Hey. We know these Bitcoiners.

335
00:22:35.520 --> 00:22:45.295
Let's put them in and, get them in get them here, and they can they can do it. Yeah. They don't report to they can't legally report to, you know, BPI or anyone else. They report to their boss in in congress.

336
00:22:46.635 --> 00:22:47.615
On that note,

337
00:22:48.395 --> 00:22:51.055
how did you get involved with Bitcoin Policy Institute?

338
00:22:51.670 --> 00:22:53.370
What's your story there?

339
00:22:54.230 --> 00:22:55.610
Yeah. It's a long story.

340
00:22:56.470 --> 00:22:58.330
We're we're not in a rush, are we?

341
00:22:59.030 --> 00:23:02.250
We have all the time in the world. All time in the world.

342
00:23:03.510 --> 00:23:05.050
So I've been at BPI,

343
00:23:06.425 --> 00:23:09.245
I guess, right at three years or just over three years now,

344
00:23:10.425 --> 00:23:11.645
which is wild.

345
00:23:12.745 --> 00:23:18.285
I'll talk about that for a second, and then I'll kinda back up and tell you tell you how that happened. Appreciate you asking.

346
00:23:18.665 --> 00:23:20.925
I, so when I first started BPI,

347
00:23:23.840 --> 00:23:26.340
it was it was, you know, it was small.

348
00:23:27.120 --> 00:23:32.900
And we're still small, but mighty, but, I mean, really small. I think I was the first full time hire at BPI.

349
00:23:33.440 --> 00:23:35.220
And now we're a team of

350
00:23:35.795 --> 00:23:36.295
13

351
00:23:36.755 --> 00:23:37.255
plus,

352
00:23:38.595 --> 00:23:40.215
full time. And so,

353
00:23:41.475 --> 00:23:43.174
you know, kind of backing up,

354
00:23:43.715 --> 00:23:45.095
all the way, I started

355
00:23:45.875 --> 00:23:49.470
I spent about a decade in public affairs, and, you know, you know, most of this,

356
00:23:50.030 --> 00:23:51.809
and you're actually part of the story,

357
00:23:52.669 --> 00:23:53.730
hilariously enough,

358
00:23:54.350 --> 00:23:55.870
a big part. But,

359
00:23:56.350 --> 00:23:57.570
spent, you know, a decade

360
00:23:58.590 --> 00:23:59.490
running campaigns,

361
00:24:00.270 --> 00:24:02.690
working for a lobbying firm, although I wasn't a lobbyist.

362
00:24:03.285 --> 00:24:06.745
I was, kind of running issue advocacy, issue based campaigns

363
00:24:07.125 --> 00:24:08.105
across the country,

364
00:24:08.805 --> 00:24:09.285
and,

365
00:24:09.765 --> 00:24:11.305
ended up in

366
00:24:11.605 --> 00:24:12.105
Tennessee,

367
00:24:13.605 --> 00:24:14.105
and

368
00:24:16.289 --> 00:24:19.190
lobbied in Nashville for a couple of years as well.

369
00:24:19.650 --> 00:24:22.390
So kinda worked in I mean, you, you know,

370
00:24:23.010 --> 00:24:24.230
you know, throw a rock,

371
00:24:24.850 --> 00:24:25.590
in that,

372
00:24:26.130 --> 00:24:29.510
political arena, and you'll hit five different jobs that I've done.

373
00:24:30.005 --> 00:24:36.825
So I've kinda pretty much run the gamut. Never worked in Capitol Hill, but spent a lot of time in in DC during those ten years. And,

374
00:24:37.445 --> 00:24:38.105
you know,

375
00:24:38.485 --> 00:24:41.145
I I actually got just completely burned out.

376
00:24:42.179 --> 00:24:44.759
It was, you know, it was just a a grind

377
00:24:45.700 --> 00:24:51.720
and learned a lot of things, did some great work, some things I'm really proud of, but it was just, it was it was a brutal

378
00:24:52.100 --> 00:24:53.000
it was brutal.

379
00:24:53.620 --> 00:24:54.120
And

380
00:24:55.054 --> 00:24:56.915
and so it was really during COVID,

381
00:24:57.615 --> 00:24:58.115
that

382
00:24:58.495 --> 00:25:00.915
most of all those projects shut down.

383
00:25:02.015 --> 00:25:04.835
And I was like, I had some different things I could do,

384
00:25:06.910 --> 00:25:09.090
but I was ready to do something completely different.

385
00:25:09.470 --> 00:25:10.610
It was also around,

386
00:25:10.990 --> 00:25:15.650
you know, toward the tail end of that that I kinda get interested in Bitcoin. I thought Bitcoin, you know, is

387
00:25:16.110 --> 00:25:17.010
yeah. Like everybody,

388
00:25:18.030 --> 00:25:21.170
maybe something a way to make a lot of money really fast.

389
00:25:21.865 --> 00:25:27.085
Actually lost a lot of money really fast. It's kind of how that happens. It's always the first time. But,

390
00:25:27.705 --> 00:25:30.365
but, you know, I stuck with it, and

391
00:25:30.905 --> 00:25:34.285
I remember I don't know if I've told you this story, actually.

392
00:25:35.794 --> 00:25:36.294
I

393
00:25:36.940 --> 00:25:44.640
kinda got to my finally get to my baseline, like, interest in in Bitcoin and the network and under understood that there was more to learn

394
00:25:44.940 --> 00:25:47.840
than just, like, buying something and selling it.

395
00:25:48.780 --> 00:25:49.600
And I

396
00:25:49.924 --> 00:25:53.225
I didn't know anyone else. I had, I guess, one friend who

397
00:25:53.605 --> 00:25:55.625
who even knew what Bitcoin was.

398
00:25:56.645 --> 00:25:57.145
And,

399
00:25:57.765 --> 00:25:58.585
it was like

400
00:25:59.205 --> 00:26:05.630
a the girl I was dating at the time, also known as my wife now. I don't know why. So that, that way,

401
00:26:06.490 --> 00:26:08.670
my current wife, former girlfriend,

402
00:26:10.010 --> 00:26:18.750
a friend of hers knew some Silicon Valley folks. Blah blah blah. Anyway, I get on the I get on with this guy, and I was just like, yo. Like, I know you know about Bitcoin.

403
00:26:20.045 --> 00:26:21.905
I got Twitter for the first time,

404
00:26:23.165 --> 00:26:25.665
and, back when it was still Twitter.

405
00:26:26.125 --> 00:26:28.945
We're gonna be saying that for so and, like,

406
00:26:29.885 --> 00:26:31.185
back when it was Twitter,

407
00:26:31.725 --> 00:26:35.710
you know, now it's still pretty fresh, but thirty years from now, we're still gonna be

408
00:26:36.250 --> 00:26:40.669
talking about that as some sort of, like, timeline marker, which is just so ridiculous. But,

409
00:26:42.409 --> 00:26:45.389
yeah, I I was like, hey. I got I got Twitter.

410
00:26:45.690 --> 00:26:48.909
Who should I follow? Like, how can I learn about Bitcoin?

411
00:26:49.575 --> 00:26:51.674
And this guy told me to follow you.

412
00:26:52.855 --> 00:26:57.835
Yeah. He was like you were, like, one of the top one of the first few names out of 10.

413
00:26:58.294 --> 00:27:09.640
And so I was just like, alright. So that's how I followed you on Twitter. I didn't even have Twitter. Actually, that's what it was. He's like, download Twitter and follow Odell. And I don't even know if you know this guy. I I can't remember his name.

414
00:27:10.100 --> 00:27:12.520
Some random dude, but he told me to follow you.

415
00:27:12.820 --> 00:27:13.320
And

416
00:27:14.020 --> 00:27:15.080
because of that,

417
00:27:15.860 --> 00:27:16.520
I did.

418
00:27:16.885 --> 00:27:17.385
And

419
00:27:18.325 --> 00:27:20.025
now I'm on your show, which is insane.

420
00:27:20.725 --> 00:27:24.985
I've never told you that story. I've saved it all these years, man, for this moment.

421
00:27:25.684 --> 00:27:26.664
What a surprise.

422
00:27:27.845 --> 00:27:30.105
I would DM you. I would ask you about

423
00:27:30.440 --> 00:27:37.740
Bitcoin, and we go back and forth. And, you were actually very generous and and patient. Like, you you you were really cool,

424
00:27:39.000 --> 00:27:39.740
back then.

425
00:27:40.360 --> 00:27:41.420
I don't know what happened,

426
00:27:42.530 --> 00:27:43.030
but

427
00:27:45.325 --> 00:27:48.705
we'll go into that later. But, yeah, man, it used to be so nice

428
00:27:49.005 --> 00:27:49.745
on Twitter.

429
00:27:50.045 --> 00:27:50.545
And

430
00:27:51.085 --> 00:27:53.265
as the price goes up, man, just

431
00:27:53.885 --> 00:27:54.945
it gets worse.

432
00:27:56.525 --> 00:27:57.345
Fake news.

433
00:27:58.120 --> 00:27:59.240
Fake news. So,

434
00:28:00.840 --> 00:28:01.799
so, yeah, I,

435
00:28:03.080 --> 00:28:06.860
got into Bitcoin. I I started, you know, working at a software company,

436
00:28:07.720 --> 00:28:14.554
and, I'm not a developer, like, not trying to take credit. I just produce the software. I don't actually, write

437
00:28:16.535 --> 00:28:25.950
it. I was I I was in sales did sales and marketing for a for a SaaS company in logistics, which, dude, I'm glad I'm not in that right now, man. Like

438
00:28:26.410 --> 00:28:26.910
like,

439
00:28:27.450 --> 00:28:29.230
trucking and, you know,

440
00:28:30.650 --> 00:28:31.630
you know, LTL

441
00:28:32.010 --> 00:28:32.750
and drayage.

442
00:28:35.210 --> 00:28:40.095
I I have compassion for you guys right now. It's about to get brutal. Straight chaos. Yeah.

443
00:28:40.635 --> 00:28:42.095
Yeah. Yeah. Brutal.

444
00:28:43.514 --> 00:28:44.335
But, anyway,

445
00:28:45.674 --> 00:28:47.135
yeah. So did that.

446
00:28:48.315 --> 00:28:51.020
Got out of that. One day, I made out with you.

447
00:28:51.400 --> 00:29:01.500
Well, no. So I I mean, we can go we can go through the whole thing. So I go to my first meetup, my first Bitcoin meetup. Sorry, guys. This is, like, boring, but this is exciting for me. This is, like, so cool.

448
00:29:02.040 --> 00:29:04.785
I gotta I gotta I gotta my my first meetup

449
00:29:05.345 --> 00:29:06.485
or second meetup,

450
00:29:06.945 --> 00:29:07.445
and,

451
00:29:08.385 --> 00:29:09.365
and I'm like,

452
00:29:09.665 --> 00:29:13.845
I'm looking at this guy. I'm like, he looks an awful lot like this, like, cartoon.

453
00:29:16.880 --> 00:29:32.500
And I just walk up. I'm like oh, also, I've obviously, like, wore a dress shirt and, like, a, you know, a jacket because anything any meeting I go to in my life this is more how I am, but, you know, I felt like you gotta put on the costume. You wear a suit. So yeah. I wear a suit.

454
00:29:32.855 --> 00:29:38.795
And so I'm a suit that shows up to a Bitcoin meetup for the first time, and I walk right up to Odell here.

455
00:29:39.575 --> 00:29:40.475
And I'm like,

456
00:29:40.775 --> 00:29:41.755
are you Odell?

457
00:29:44.615 --> 00:29:46.075
I'm like, are you mad at Odell?

458
00:29:46.695 --> 00:29:47.675
And you're like,

459
00:29:48.900 --> 00:29:49.400
why?

460
00:29:54.340 --> 00:30:04.200
Oh, man. It's to, like, DM you and stuff. Like, can we hang out? Can we, like, get lunch sometime? And you just looked at me like I was an insane person. I didn't know all the rules. You know? I didn't know.

461
00:30:04.635 --> 00:30:05.135
And,

462
00:30:05.435 --> 00:30:06.735
kinda Well, we got lunch.

463
00:30:07.115 --> 00:30:11.055
We got lunch, man. We hung out. We talked about This is at Bitcoin Park.

464
00:30:11.675 --> 00:30:13.695
Yep. Bitcoin Park. I mean, to be clear,

465
00:30:14.395 --> 00:30:20.370
you know, like, if that happens to me constantly, that's why I'm I wasn't trying to be rude. It was just, Right.

466
00:30:21.170 --> 00:30:23.110
Time is scarce. Let's cut to the chase.

467
00:30:23.970 --> 00:30:28.309
Yeah. Unless you're on the unless you're on the Citadel dispatch. Time's not scarce.

468
00:30:28.690 --> 00:30:31.910
Then we we have unlimited time now. They're over one.

469
00:30:32.625 --> 00:30:33.125
And,

470
00:30:33.905 --> 00:30:49.380
and so, yeah, we hung out. I intentionally didn't talk about my, like, decade career in politics because I was like, these guys are not gonna like, they'll only be coming to the meetup, but, like, nobody's gonna wanna hang with me in Bitcoin world if they think I'm, like, you know, working politics.

471
00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:51.540
That was pretty obvious to me.

472
00:30:52.240 --> 00:30:56.960
At least it seemed obvious. I was like, oh, yeah. Like and I'm much more I have much more in common with,

473
00:30:57.440 --> 00:31:00.660
with that than I do, like, you know, what I did for work,

474
00:31:01.360 --> 00:31:02.660
or, like, you know, politicians,

475
00:31:03.865 --> 00:31:16.765
kinda swampy stuff, but I didn't know if everybody would completely understand that. So I was kinda like, I don't really would talk about it. So one day, we're we get launched. We're talking about it. I'm like and I'm pretty sure your exact I can't tell you my background, and I'm pretty sure your exact

476
00:31:17.160 --> 00:31:18.060
quote was,

477
00:31:18.600 --> 00:31:22.300
you gotta be fucking kidding me. Like that. And I was like, great.

478
00:31:24.680 --> 00:31:37.915
Well, last time I would hang out with these guys, and you're like, no. No. No. Like, you're never gonna believe this. So I've actually been, like, hanging out with these guys that run, like, Bitcoin and policy institute. Have you ever heard of it? And I'm like, no. What's that?

479
00:31:39.415 --> 00:31:54.669
And, it was you and it was CK, and I was talking to you guys a lot about it. And so you was like, hey. Like, talk to these guys. Like, maybe you guys have something in common. Like, like, I don't know anything about this stuff, but you do. So, anyway, I was like, cool. Talk to David and Grant,

480
00:31:55.289 --> 00:31:56.909
about BPI and,

481
00:31:57.610 --> 00:32:01.095
just like, what's up? Like, Bitcoin, cool, policy stuff. Yeah. Like,

482
00:32:02.054 --> 00:32:07.595
I wasn't looking for a job. I had a job. A month later, I quit that job and went to work at BPI.

483
00:32:09.655 --> 00:32:10.615
And, it's been a

484
00:32:11.335 --> 00:32:16.395
since, like, favorite job I've ever had, by far. So thank you for,

485
00:32:17.350 --> 00:32:19.269
you know, the part you played in that.

486
00:32:19.909 --> 00:32:21.370
I'm really enjoying it, and

487
00:32:22.149 --> 00:32:23.130
and I think that,

488
00:32:24.149 --> 00:32:29.529
I think BPI has I've seen BPI grow up and mature over three years and become

489
00:32:29.995 --> 00:32:31.534
become a powerful,

490
00:32:32.075 --> 00:32:33.695
force in in DC.

491
00:32:34.154 --> 00:32:37.294
And I think that there are far greater things in store,

492
00:32:37.755 --> 00:32:39.695
for the Oregon. So very

493
00:32:39.995 --> 00:32:42.174
humble and and proud to be a part of it,

494
00:32:42.475 --> 00:32:43.294
to be honest.

495
00:32:44.059 --> 00:32:46.059
Love it. Yeah. I mean, I,

496
00:32:47.580 --> 00:32:52.720
I still remember the recommendation I gave to David Zell. I was like, you guys should really hire this guy.

497
00:32:53.340 --> 00:32:58.080
He follows me on Twitter, came to the meetup. Seems like a good dude. You have absolutely nothing to lose.

498
00:32:59.595 --> 00:33:02.095
Because it was so early. Bitcoin Policy Institute

499
00:33:02.555 --> 00:33:09.375
was merely a dream at that point. It was so early. There was so much work to be done. But I think the moral of this entire story

500
00:33:10.235 --> 00:33:22.630
is because I helped Steven get into Bitcoin Policy Institute and he produced that video, I could take credit for the pump up video. I think that was basically my work through you Yep. Through the actual people who made it.

501
00:33:23.090 --> 00:33:27.965
You're a you're a you're an executive producer is what that means. They I'm an EP now.

502
00:33:28.425 --> 00:33:31.085
You found me. You produced me.

503
00:33:34.425 --> 00:33:35.085
The video.

504
00:33:37.065 --> 00:33:37.785
So we had

505
00:33:38.800 --> 00:33:42.100
one thing that I'm particularly proud of with Bitcoin Policy Institute

506
00:33:42.800 --> 00:33:43.280
is,

507
00:33:43.680 --> 00:33:46.580
the p two p rights fund. So the p two p rights fund

508
00:33:47.040 --> 00:33:48.020
is a,

509
00:33:48.960 --> 00:33:50.020
separate organization

510
00:33:50.400 --> 00:33:52.980
that is underneath Bitcoin Policy Institute.

511
00:33:54.395 --> 00:33:59.615
Bitcoin Policy Institute's head of policies, Zach Shapiro, runs p two p rights fund.

512
00:34:00.475 --> 00:34:02.895
And the whole goal of that fund,

513
00:34:03.915 --> 00:34:04.975
is to support,

514
00:34:05.355 --> 00:34:09.630
legal defense of open source contributors, particularly Bitcoin open source contributors.

515
00:34:11.290 --> 00:34:17.390
And their landmark case right now and the reason it got created in the first place was the samurai developer case,

516
00:34:18.090 --> 00:34:19.950
which is being prosecuted in

517
00:34:20.250 --> 00:34:22.109
New York federal court right now.

518
00:34:22.970 --> 00:34:24.100
And there was a big,

519
00:34:25.185 --> 00:34:26.805
reveal that happened today.

520
00:34:27.345 --> 00:34:32.405
And you came I know you're not the policy wonk, but you came prepared with a bunch of notes.

521
00:34:33.665 --> 00:34:35.745
I kinda wanna talk about that for a little bit.

522
00:34:36.385 --> 00:34:37.560
What's going on there?

523
00:34:38.600 --> 00:34:39.100
Yeah.

524
00:34:39.480 --> 00:34:42.300
Man, I'm I'm super I'm super kinda

525
00:34:43.560 --> 00:34:46.220
jazzed up, amped up about this because this is,

526
00:34:46.920 --> 00:34:51.020
you know, like you said, I'm not the policy guy, and I'm and I'm not an attorney, but

527
00:34:51.645 --> 00:34:53.505
I don't think you have to understand,

528
00:34:54.925 --> 00:34:56.705
just the level of, like,

529
00:34:57.005 --> 00:34:57.505
ridiculousness

530
00:34:58.205 --> 00:34:58.525
that,

531
00:34:59.085 --> 00:35:00.065
today's release

532
00:35:00.525 --> 00:35:01.585
highlights, man.

533
00:35:04.650 --> 00:35:05.310
So, essentially,

534
00:35:06.250 --> 00:35:07.470
what's happened is,

535
00:35:08.170 --> 00:35:08.670
the

536
00:35:09.050 --> 00:35:11.790
defense counsel for for the samurai developers

537
00:35:12.569 --> 00:35:15.150
has filed a a Brady letter. And,

538
00:35:16.089 --> 00:35:17.230
this Brady letter,

539
00:35:18.089 --> 00:35:19.310
is basically, like,

540
00:35:21.125 --> 00:35:23.625
you know, six months ago or

541
00:35:24.005 --> 00:35:25.065
nine months ago.

542
00:35:25.685 --> 00:35:31.545
I'm trying not to read it. I've got it right here. Six months before the '20 I'll just read it. 2024 samurai indictment. Prosecutors

543
00:35:31.845 --> 00:35:34.025
asked the prosecute so the prosecutors

544
00:35:35.040 --> 00:35:37.380
that are prosecuting these guys right now DOJ.

545
00:35:38.400 --> 00:35:38.900
DOJ.

546
00:35:39.360 --> 00:35:40.500
They asked Finson

547
00:35:41.680 --> 00:35:42.660
whether Samurais,

548
00:35:43.280 --> 00:35:43.780
noncustodial

549
00:35:44.400 --> 00:35:46.260
wallet, and coin joint software

550
00:35:46.720 --> 00:35:47.220
constituted,

551
00:35:47.920 --> 00:35:49.460
quote, unquote, money transmission.

552
00:35:50.515 --> 00:35:51.015
So

553
00:35:51.635 --> 00:35:53.415
the prosecutors asked Finson,

554
00:35:54.195 --> 00:35:55.175
are these guys

555
00:35:55.475 --> 00:35:56.375
money transmitters?

556
00:35:57.475 --> 00:35:58.535
Finson said,

557
00:35:58.995 --> 00:36:00.375
no. They're not.

558
00:36:02.910 --> 00:36:06.290
So the prosecutor said, got it. Thanks for letting us know.

559
00:36:06.910 --> 00:36:11.250
Waited six months and prosecuted him for being money transmitters.

560
00:36:11.869 --> 00:36:12.609
That's it.

561
00:36:13.069 --> 00:36:14.930
So, yeah, I don't really have to be

562
00:36:15.240 --> 00:36:15.740
exactly.

563
00:36:16.805 --> 00:36:17.705
Pick it all apart,

564
00:36:18.165 --> 00:36:19.785
but you really don't have to be,

565
00:36:20.165 --> 00:36:21.385
you know, an attorney.

566
00:36:22.805 --> 00:36:28.265
I guess you I guess I think there's pretty much everyone understands this except for the prosecutors on the case that,

567
00:36:28.645 --> 00:36:29.305
you know,

568
00:36:29.840 --> 00:36:34.740
the the group that's in charge of making the rules says they're not breaking the rules.

569
00:36:35.280 --> 00:36:39.140
And then you went and prosecuted them for breaking the damn rules.

570
00:36:39.680 --> 00:36:42.820
It's you know, I think my my, you know,

571
00:36:43.205 --> 00:36:45.145
my toddler could understand that.

572
00:36:46.965 --> 00:36:48.905
But there's so there's sort of two

573
00:36:49.445 --> 00:37:01.270
why this matters. There's, like, there's there's two or three things of why this matters, and it's obvious. Some of you know, it's obvious that prosecutors knew that, you know, they weren't considered money transmitters, and they did it anyway.

574
00:37:02.130 --> 00:37:03.250
So they have,

575
00:37:05.010 --> 00:37:10.310
they have done that. They've regulated by indictment, which we already knew they were doing, but now we know it even more.

576
00:37:10.610 --> 00:37:13.645
And then I think the super shitty thing

577
00:37:14.025 --> 00:37:14.765
is that

578
00:37:16.105 --> 00:37:16.925
they abused,

579
00:37:17.865 --> 00:37:19.645
the Brady process. So

580
00:37:20.425 --> 00:37:21.065
if even

581
00:37:22.025 --> 00:37:24.285
okay. Yeah. They had this conversation.

582
00:37:25.520 --> 00:37:26.020
Well,

583
00:37:26.560 --> 00:37:31.700
when you're going into trial, you're supposed to sort of release all this to the defense,

584
00:37:32.480 --> 00:37:33.380
early on,

585
00:37:33.760 --> 00:37:34.820
and they didn't.

586
00:37:35.280 --> 00:37:36.820
And so not only

587
00:37:37.155 --> 00:37:40.135
is it like, oh, we're just now finding out about this.

588
00:37:40.835 --> 00:37:42.215
There's a lot of, like,

589
00:37:43.075 --> 00:37:44.295
there's a lot of, like,

590
00:37:47.315 --> 00:37:47.815
costs,

591
00:37:48.675 --> 00:37:50.855
that are associated with it. There's time,

592
00:37:51.555 --> 00:37:52.535
that's been lost

593
00:37:53.030 --> 00:37:54.410
already. There's, like,

594
00:37:54.790 --> 00:37:58.490
like, opportunity cost is what I was trying to say. Opportunity cost with this being delayed.

595
00:37:59.109 --> 00:38:01.930
So there's, like, unlike the federal government,

596
00:38:03.349 --> 00:38:11.205
you know, defense doesn't have unlimited resources to push toward their case. That's part of the reason BPI launched the the the p two p fund.

597
00:38:11.985 --> 00:38:12.485
So,

598
00:38:13.505 --> 00:38:14.165
you know,

599
00:38:14.465 --> 00:38:16.165
they spent all this money

600
00:38:16.545 --> 00:38:24.440
trying to get to this point only to find out, like, oh, we didn't have to focus on that if we would have just known this six months ago, which is obviously

601
00:38:24.900 --> 00:38:25.400
why,

602
00:38:26.660 --> 00:38:28.520
why they didn't want them to.

603
00:38:30.580 --> 00:38:31.080
But,

604
00:38:31.619 --> 00:38:32.920
and then there's, like,

605
00:38:34.740 --> 00:38:37.960
the opportunities for hearings for dismissal that were Right.

606
00:38:38.805 --> 00:38:39.305
There's,

607
00:38:40.484 --> 00:38:50.265
like, bail consideration. So the you know, I don't know all the but, like, basically, when you first go in for your initial hearing with bail set, the judge is evaluating,

608
00:38:50.565 --> 00:38:56.029
like, how strong cases the government have versus how strong your defenses. They kinda look at all the baseline evidence.

609
00:38:56.329 --> 00:38:59.309
This should have been in there. Think if this was in there,

610
00:38:59.609 --> 00:39:01.390
I think it's reasonable to say,

611
00:39:02.010 --> 00:39:02.510
oh,

612
00:39:03.369 --> 00:39:09.755
so said that they're not doing the thing that you're accusing them of, like, six months before you,

613
00:39:10.055 --> 00:39:15.435
you know, accuse them of it and start this whole damn thing? Like, maybe we set bail a little differently.

614
00:39:16.055 --> 00:39:16.555
Maybe

615
00:39:17.175 --> 00:39:22.395
the they, they could have the option to just, like, get their case dismissed outright right then.

616
00:39:22.760 --> 00:39:24.280
But no. But no.

617
00:39:25.319 --> 00:39:26.040
I think it's,

618
00:39:26.680 --> 00:39:29.579
I think it's a, an egregious miscarriage of justice.

619
00:39:29.960 --> 00:39:31.020
I think it shows

620
00:39:31.880 --> 00:39:32.700
the worst

621
00:39:33.000 --> 00:39:33.500
parts

622
00:39:33.800 --> 00:39:34.300
of,

623
00:39:35.285 --> 00:39:37.465
our criminal justice system, just like

624
00:39:38.325 --> 00:39:40.105
put up in the sky with a bat signal.

625
00:39:40.725 --> 00:39:41.225
And

626
00:39:41.765 --> 00:39:42.405
I think it's,

627
00:39:43.685 --> 00:39:46.025
I mean, I think it's disgusting. And so

628
00:39:46.325 --> 00:39:47.625
I would encourage everyone

629
00:39:47.925 --> 00:39:52.450
who's listening or listens to I honestly, pick up the phone and call your congressman

630
00:39:52.830 --> 00:39:55.089
and just tell them. Be like, have you seen this?

631
00:39:55.550 --> 00:39:57.490
Have you seen what the DOJ

632
00:39:58.030 --> 00:39:58.530
did?

633
00:39:59.150 --> 00:40:03.730
Ignored guidance from Finson and prosecuted these guys anyways for no damn reason.

634
00:40:04.515 --> 00:40:06.295
There's, like, hard evidence

635
00:40:07.154 --> 00:40:07.875
in this,

636
00:40:08.275 --> 00:40:24.050
document that's like, no. This is the conversation that happened. These are the emails that were sent. They said, no. They're not really doing it. The prosecutors emailed each other and were like, yeah. Vincent said it's like, a game of telephone where I tell you something and you tell somebody else something and there gets some miscommunication.

637
00:40:25.390 --> 00:40:31.410
You can't have a telephone you can't make the telephone game excuse if it's two people talking on the phone,

638
00:40:31.745 --> 00:40:35.445
And then you repeat back to them what they said, even worse if it's email.

639
00:40:35.905 --> 00:40:39.265
And, we have that evidence. And so, you know, I just think it's,

640
00:40:41.185 --> 00:40:42.645
I think it's it's just,

641
00:40:43.265 --> 00:40:45.045
it's sort of just an unbelievable.

642
00:40:45.425 --> 00:40:51.819
I mean, it's it's sort of unbelievable. It's unspeakable. This whole damn thing is a mess, and the the case should be thrown out immediately.

643
00:40:52.119 --> 00:41:00.140
And these guys should be released and, should never have no problem again. I mean, it just that's the most common sense solution. I don't see how that doesn't happen,

644
00:41:00.485 --> 00:41:06.265
but I do see how that doesn't happen, and now you see how it doesn't happen too. And so I would pick up the phone and call your congressman,

645
00:41:06.645 --> 00:41:07.305
you know,

646
00:41:07.685 --> 00:41:09.145
Republican, Democrat, whatever.

647
00:41:09.525 --> 00:41:10.585
I think this is,

648
00:41:11.205 --> 00:41:16.345
the I think, you know, even if they don't give a damn, which I think they some of them do,

649
00:41:17.339 --> 00:41:31.920
I think this is just the most let's just, like, look at it cynically. This is the easiest way for them to score political points against whoever they want. Like, nobody nobody looks good defending this. And so play the game if you want, whatever. I don't really care. I just think it needs to end yesterday.

650
00:41:33.715 --> 00:41:34.994
Yeah. We need to get,

651
00:41:36.755 --> 00:41:37.895
the samurai developers

652
00:41:38.195 --> 00:41:40.935
out of out of this situation. It's

653
00:41:41.555 --> 00:41:42.535
absolutely ridiculous.

654
00:41:42.994 --> 00:41:43.895
So how did

655
00:41:46.600 --> 00:41:49.500
how did we find out about this? Did they,

656
00:41:49.800 --> 00:41:51.420
you know, eventually voluntary

657
00:41:51.800 --> 00:41:54.300
voluntarily disclose it? Are you aware of

658
00:41:54.680 --> 00:41:56.540
how it actually came up eventually?

659
00:41:57.245 --> 00:42:09.585
Do we catch the mid one or something? Or I don't know. But whatever I say is gonna be, like, wrong because I'm gonna miss, like, one or two things. Okay. I don't know how this came out. It came out early April, and then the letter got released today.

660
00:42:10.445 --> 00:42:14.350
But I don't know the, like, play by play of, like, how they So it might have

661
00:42:14.830 --> 00:42:16.130
legal process. So it

662
00:42:16.590 --> 00:42:20.290
yeah. So it actually might have something to do with the recent push for dismissal,

663
00:42:20.750 --> 00:42:21.570
from the defense.

664
00:42:22.110 --> 00:42:23.490
Also, since then,

665
00:42:24.805 --> 00:42:28.105
I think it was maybe a little bit less than a month ago, the DOJ,

666
00:42:29.205 --> 00:42:29.945
was it

667
00:42:30.485 --> 00:42:34.905
someone came it wasn't the DOJ that came out and said that they're no longer gonna do

668
00:42:35.685 --> 00:42:36.665
Biden era,

669
00:42:38.080 --> 00:42:39.460
enforcement by prosecution

670
00:42:39.920 --> 00:42:41.140
regulation by prosecution.

671
00:42:41.520 --> 00:42:44.980
The the deputy attorney general released a memo April 7.

672
00:42:45.680 --> 00:42:50.260
Is that what you're talking about? Yes. Yeah. But on the federal on the federal level. Yeah.

673
00:42:51.135 --> 00:42:51.635
Yeah.

674
00:42:53.455 --> 00:42:58.675
Yeah. I mean, you've kinda got you've kinda got a few things colliding. So you have executive order,

675
00:42:59.215 --> 00:43:01.155
that Right. You know, January.

676
00:43:01.775 --> 00:43:02.995
And that's like,

677
00:43:03.775 --> 00:43:04.755
I got the quote.

678
00:43:06.750 --> 00:43:16.370
Commits to protecting and promoting the ability to develop and deploy software to transact with other persons without unlawful censorship and to maintain self custody of digital assets. That's in the executive order.

679
00:43:17.390 --> 00:43:22.515
And, I think, you know, people have problems with the executive order. That's in the executive order. I think it's pretty strong.

680
00:43:23.535 --> 00:43:29.155
I like that. I like that in an executive order from the president of The United States. We basically wrote that. Right?

681
00:43:30.815 --> 00:43:31.770
Somebody wrote it.

682
00:43:33.210 --> 00:43:34.190
Okay. General

683
00:43:34.490 --> 00:43:35.790
on April 7 said,

684
00:43:36.170 --> 00:43:40.590
ending regulation by prosecution. This is just like this April. Right?

685
00:43:41.050 --> 00:43:41.950
Yeah. Deputy

686
00:43:42.570 --> 00:43:43.070
general

687
00:43:43.935 --> 00:43:50.915
Had a memo that says the DOJ will no longer target virtual currency exchanges, mixing and tumbling services, offline wallets for acts

688
00:43:51.215 --> 00:43:53.635
of their end users or unwitting violation regulations.

689
00:43:56.190 --> 00:43:58.849
And it prohibits the Bank Secrecy Act

690
00:43:59.869 --> 00:44:03.570
charges unless the defendant willfully ignored a clear licensing duty.

691
00:44:05.550 --> 00:44:07.970
And that's precisely what Finsen

692
00:44:08.349 --> 00:44:10.690
said did not happen here. They're saying

693
00:44:11.055 --> 00:44:13.714
samurai, one, isn't isn't

694
00:44:14.095 --> 00:44:15.635
doing this. And two,

695
00:44:16.255 --> 00:44:21.395
even if they are, they're definitely not willfully doing it, but they're not doing it.

696
00:44:21.855 --> 00:44:22.355
Yeah.

697
00:44:22.734 --> 00:44:29.050
So you have these two, you know, January EO and then this memo from this month.

698
00:44:29.750 --> 00:44:30.410
The memo,

699
00:44:30.790 --> 00:44:32.010
helps. Right?

700
00:44:32.550 --> 00:44:33.030
And so you're

701
00:44:34.470 --> 00:44:44.565
one, even under the old regime, you shouldn't be prosecuting because it doesn't make any sense, and you've and Finson's already covered that. And now under this new regime, they're saying we're not gonna do this anymore.

702
00:44:45.025 --> 00:44:46.565
And so I'd imagine,

703
00:44:48.785 --> 00:44:51.185
imagine they'd have to back they'd have to back down.

704
00:44:51.585 --> 00:44:52.484
But, you know,

705
00:44:53.265 --> 00:44:54.255
I guess optimistic.

706
00:44:55.510 --> 00:44:56.010
I

707
00:44:56.310 --> 00:45:00.410
I'll be optimistic when it's when it's actually done because Yeah. Exactly.

708
00:45:00.870 --> 00:45:03.110
I'd I'd it's just it's unbelievable, man.

709
00:45:03.590 --> 00:45:04.090
And

710
00:45:04.390 --> 00:45:06.070
I hate that they're going through it.

711
00:45:06.870 --> 00:45:09.130
I I think there's it's very personal.

712
00:45:09.705 --> 00:45:11.165
I also think, like,

713
00:45:12.585 --> 00:45:13.085
you

714
00:45:15.225 --> 00:45:15.725
know,

715
00:45:16.905 --> 00:45:19.725
this the message it sends not just to

716
00:45:20.345 --> 00:45:21.965
Bitcoiners, but to entrepreneurs

717
00:45:22.745 --> 00:45:23.805
across the country

718
00:45:24.505 --> 00:45:25.165
is that

719
00:45:25.599 --> 00:45:27.780
any guidance you've been given by,

720
00:45:29.680 --> 00:45:30.579
the supposed,

721
00:45:31.599 --> 00:45:32.099
regulatory

722
00:45:32.800 --> 00:45:38.020
agency that oversees, you know, whatever you're doing, you cannot trust it at all

723
00:45:39.125 --> 00:45:42.025
because we'll just make shit up and throw you in prison.

724
00:45:42.565 --> 00:45:43.065
Yep.

725
00:45:44.085 --> 00:45:46.425
And so that's that's the message

726
00:45:46.964 --> 00:45:49.065
not just to software developers,

727
00:45:49.365 --> 00:45:50.505
not just to Bitcoiners,

728
00:45:51.210 --> 00:45:54.750
not just to people who are, you know, wanting to utilize a peer to peer network,

729
00:45:55.050 --> 00:45:57.070
but to anyone doing anything

730
00:45:58.170 --> 00:46:00.590
is that you can't trust the regulations

731
00:46:01.130 --> 00:46:01.630
because

732
00:46:02.330 --> 00:46:03.390
even if prosecutors

733
00:46:03.690 --> 00:46:09.685
ask us and and we say, oh, they're a % compliant. They can say, oh, thanks for letting us know.

734
00:46:09.985 --> 00:46:11.365
We're gonna do it anyway.

735
00:46:12.385 --> 00:46:16.405
And that's not the country we live in. Or is it? I I guess we'll find out.

736
00:46:17.345 --> 00:46:23.369
Well, I so just to put some context here on the timeline, which makes it even worse. And by the way, I see,

737
00:46:24.710 --> 00:46:26.890
Jor zapped 8,900

738
00:46:27.349 --> 00:46:29.529
sets. Thank you, Jor, for your support.

739
00:46:31.045 --> 00:46:35.305
Just the timeline here for a little bit more context. So the samurai developers,

740
00:46:40.405 --> 00:46:48.030
were they were arrested in April of last year. So it's a little bit over a year since then. So they were arrested in April of last year.

741
00:46:48.569 --> 00:46:51.310
This report seems to show that

742
00:46:51.690 --> 00:46:52.910
FinCEN was contacted,

743
00:46:54.329 --> 00:47:00.670
six months prior to that and said that they were in a money transfer business, and they were fine under the law.

744
00:47:01.215 --> 00:47:02.355
So that was probably

745
00:47:03.375 --> 00:47:05.235
October,

746
00:47:05.455 --> 00:47:05.955
November

747
00:47:06.255 --> 00:47:07.395
'20 '20 '3.

748
00:47:08.095 --> 00:47:11.475
January '20 '20 '4, so in between FinCEN saying

749
00:47:12.335 --> 00:47:15.475
that to the DOJ and the DOJ arresting them in January

750
00:47:16.050 --> 00:47:20.630
So 10/31 was one of the investors of Samurai. We cowrote a legal brief

751
00:47:21.330 --> 00:47:27.590
with Samurai that was signed by, like, 20 plus of our portfolio companies, some of the best Bitcoin companies in the world,

752
00:47:28.690 --> 00:47:30.550
arguing for why

753
00:47:31.725 --> 00:47:32.225
CoinJoin

754
00:47:32.525 --> 00:47:40.785
and self custody wallets were legal under the law, being proactive about it, saying, like, look. We're not trying to break laws here. We're trying to be,

755
00:47:42.525 --> 00:47:45.905
you know, within the the existing regulatory framework.

756
00:47:46.640 --> 00:47:52.340
And FinCEN received that. And then three months later, DOJ went along with the prosecution anyway.

757
00:47:52.640 --> 00:47:55.220
So to to your point of entrepreneurs

758
00:47:55.680 --> 00:47:57.700
not knowing where they stand,

759
00:47:59.085 --> 00:48:00.945
at least under the last administration

760
00:48:01.325 --> 00:48:05.185
and most administrations before that, I think that was very much the case.

761
00:48:05.565 --> 00:48:08.065
I think it's pretty amazing to witness.

762
00:48:09.565 --> 00:48:12.465
I it's if you weren't there at the time,

763
00:48:13.490 --> 00:48:14.790
it's really hard

764
00:48:15.410 --> 00:48:16.630
to explain it.

765
00:48:17.089 --> 00:48:18.790
But April of last year,

766
00:48:20.849 --> 00:48:22.630
Trump was behind in the polls.

767
00:48:23.970 --> 00:48:26.309
People were pretending Biden was not,

768
00:48:27.635 --> 00:48:28.295
you know,

769
00:48:28.595 --> 00:48:29.095
completely

770
00:48:30.835 --> 00:48:31.895
lost in terms

771
00:48:32.435 --> 00:48:34.775
of dementia or whatnot. I'm not a doctor.

772
00:48:35.955 --> 00:48:36.455
And

773
00:48:36.835 --> 00:48:37.335
and

774
00:48:38.275 --> 00:48:42.589
the boot was getting cracked on the Bitcoin industry, and a lot of people were disenfranchised.

775
00:48:42.890 --> 00:48:44.349
A lot of people were scared.

776
00:48:45.690 --> 00:48:48.029
I remember trying to rally support

777
00:48:48.410 --> 00:48:57.405
for the samurai legal defense fund, and it was really hard to get people on the phone. And even people that said they would support, you know, wouldn't do it publicly.

778
00:48:59.705 --> 00:49:00.925
BPI significantly

779
00:49:01.305 --> 00:49:02.525
stepped up to the plate.

780
00:49:05.465 --> 00:49:07.965
Dave David Bailey, love or hate him,

781
00:49:08.345 --> 00:49:11.165
was like, we are going to change the direction

782
00:49:11.465 --> 00:49:11.965
of

783
00:49:12.430 --> 00:49:15.570
of of this country's regulatory environment in terms of Bitcoin.

784
00:49:16.190 --> 00:49:16.690
And

785
00:49:17.470 --> 00:49:21.890
the progress that has been made over the last year is fucking insane.

786
00:49:22.510 --> 00:49:24.050
It is absolutely insane.

787
00:49:25.015 --> 00:49:29.995
Bitcoiners are clearly a force to be reckoned with. Young Matt would have told you,

788
00:49:31.895 --> 00:49:34.155
fuck politics. I was completely disenfranchised.

789
00:49:34.535 --> 00:49:36.390
We're not gonna get anywhere with it.

790
00:49:37.109 --> 00:49:38.410
Young Matt was wrong.

791
00:49:39.029 --> 00:49:45.049
And and all you really need to do to to see what happens without a politically active,

792
00:49:47.589 --> 00:49:52.905
Bitcoiner class and and Bitcoin industry is America versus Canada.

793
00:49:53.365 --> 00:49:58.505
Like, Canada is a fucking mess right now. Like, if you're running a Bitcoin business in Canada, you're freaking out.

794
00:49:59.365 --> 00:50:01.625
Even though they're right next to us,

795
00:50:02.405 --> 00:50:04.585
they're practically a 50 state,

796
00:50:04.940 --> 00:50:09.120
Their regulatory environment is fucking horrible, while in The US,

797
00:50:10.220 --> 00:50:13.120
we are putting a big corner in every congressional office.

798
00:50:15.580 --> 00:50:16.480
Yeah. Crazy.

799
00:50:18.515 --> 00:50:20.615
It is crazy. And I just saw

800
00:50:21.395 --> 00:50:26.535
your comment here. Bitcoiners won't admit it, but it helps having a Bitcoin friendly administration.

801
00:50:26.835 --> 00:50:29.655
I'm all admitting it. Yeah. I'm admitting it.

802
00:50:30.035 --> 00:50:30.535
And,

803
00:50:31.000 --> 00:50:31.660
you know,

804
00:50:32.920 --> 00:50:34.540
I think it's I think it's unbelievable.

805
00:50:34.920 --> 00:50:36.380
I know it's a little weird,

806
00:50:36.760 --> 00:50:41.100
and I understand that, for some people. It's like you caught your tail a little bit.

807
00:50:41.880 --> 00:50:42.380
But

808
00:50:43.335 --> 00:50:43.835
I

809
00:50:45.335 --> 00:50:50.955
I have a lot of experience at, like, state level and local politics. And and so, you know,

810
00:50:51.494 --> 00:50:57.450
federal level is is a completely different animal in a number of ways. And I and so I completely understand that. I really do. I get it.

811
00:50:58.010 --> 00:51:02.589
But it's also, like, in some ways, it's not. And I think working in local state and local politics,

812
00:51:04.250 --> 00:51:07.849
you can develop the cynicism, which is 100%

813
00:51:07.849 --> 00:51:10.510
appropriate, and I completely get it. And I've seen,

814
00:51:11.130 --> 00:51:12.190
how it all happens

815
00:51:13.015 --> 00:51:14.395
and the way things happen.

816
00:51:14.935 --> 00:51:17.515
But I've also seen the other side. And,

817
00:51:18.135 --> 00:51:20.055
and so I think I'm I try to be

818
00:51:21.335 --> 00:51:26.155
you know, I kinda play the middle a little bit, when I'm talking to people who are way too hopeful,

819
00:51:26.820 --> 00:51:29.720
or, like, overly optimistic about what can happen

820
00:51:30.180 --> 00:51:30.920
through Yeah.

821
00:51:32.580 --> 00:51:34.120
I kinda have a word of caution.

822
00:51:34.420 --> 00:51:37.800
And then when I talk to people who I think are maybe a little too cynical,

823
00:51:39.215 --> 00:51:47.395
then I I I kinda take the opposite approach. It's a little bit nuanced, and and I'm not trying to, like, play games, but I've seen both. And so,

824
00:51:49.455 --> 00:51:51.555
you know, I would much rather have

825
00:51:53.055 --> 00:51:54.595
someone who cares

826
00:51:55.430 --> 00:51:57.450
for whatever reason you think they care

827
00:51:58.310 --> 00:51:59.910
and is and is on,

828
00:52:00.390 --> 00:52:01.530
on team, like,

829
00:52:02.230 --> 00:52:04.570
not round up and arrest people,

830
00:52:05.350 --> 00:52:05.850
but

831
00:52:06.470 --> 00:52:13.015
on team, like, release guidance for, like, letting people, you know, run their businesses and develop software

832
00:52:13.635 --> 00:52:14.935
than than the alternative.

833
00:52:15.395 --> 00:52:16.275
And so,

834
00:52:16.595 --> 00:52:25.960
I'm thankful for that. I'm grateful for that. I know there's a lot of other things that are happening, but, like, within a vacuum, like, I I'm very appreciative for that, However long it lasts.

835
00:52:26.339 --> 00:52:27.319
I also think,

836
00:52:27.859 --> 00:52:28.520
you know,

837
00:52:29.539 --> 00:52:30.039
having

838
00:52:30.500 --> 00:52:34.200
having this today doesn't guarantee we have this tomorrow ever again.

839
00:52:34.579 --> 00:52:35.319
But I think,

840
00:52:35.619 --> 00:52:37.480
you know, but I think that,

841
00:52:39.085 --> 00:52:43.425
you know, I think we we're we should seize the opportunity and appreciate it for what it is.

842
00:52:44.045 --> 00:52:46.065
We should a % seize the opportunity.

843
00:52:46.845 --> 00:52:51.745
And we just gotta keep pushing. Like, we gotta push hard. I mean, I would look. I I

844
00:52:52.440 --> 00:52:55.020
completely respect the Bitcoiner perspective

845
00:52:55.400 --> 00:52:55.900
that,

846
00:52:59.480 --> 00:53:01.020
you know, that there's a there's

847
00:53:01.480 --> 00:53:03.099
a frog boiling situation

848
00:53:04.040 --> 00:53:06.700
that, you know, people use the terms regulatory

849
00:53:07.000 --> 00:53:07.500
clarity

850
00:53:08.065 --> 00:53:10.965
and compliance to really mean surveillance and control.

851
00:53:12.225 --> 00:53:16.325
I don't think that is obviated. Obviously, that is still a concern today.

852
00:53:17.105 --> 00:53:22.005
But but you we don't live in a fucking vacuum. We don't live in a vacuum. And

853
00:53:22.750 --> 00:53:24.290
and what we were witnessing

854
00:53:24.830 --> 00:53:26.850
was over the last decade plus,

855
00:53:27.470 --> 00:53:29.090
the frog boiling situation

856
00:53:29.710 --> 00:53:37.570
where where it was the the regulatory trend was getting worse and worse. We were seeing surveillance increase. We were seeing control increase.

857
00:53:38.155 --> 00:53:43.695
That was the status quo. We were seeing I I saw my friends literally get thrown in a fucking gulag,

858
00:53:44.315 --> 00:53:51.535
and more were coming. That was the environment. This time last year, the environment was, yeah, they started with the samurai developers,

859
00:53:51.835 --> 00:54:03.670
but it doesn't matter what you're working on. They're coming after you next. And we saw that with companies like Phoenix pulling out of The United States. Right? Phoenix, which is, you know, a very polished operation

860
00:54:04.369 --> 00:54:07.430
and tries to be very above board, even they were concerned,

861
00:54:08.424 --> 00:54:12.924
that they would have they would have issues in terms of US government enforcement

862
00:54:13.464 --> 00:54:14.444
and subjugation.

863
00:54:15.145 --> 00:54:20.285
And so we really had no choice. There was no choice. Our back the backs were against the wall,

864
00:54:20.750 --> 00:54:32.609
and the only thing to do was to push back. And the only thing was was was to fight it in every way possible. And that is through tools and education, but that's also through policy work and education on the policy side.

865
00:54:32.990 --> 00:54:38.475
And we've been incredibly effective. It is absolutely like, I we can you cannot overstate

866
00:54:39.175 --> 00:54:45.595
the progress that has been made on that front over the last year. It's absolutely insane. And someone coming into Bitcoin now

867
00:54:46.375 --> 00:54:48.795
just does not realize that, just does not

868
00:54:49.175 --> 00:54:50.715
does not appreciate that.

869
00:54:51.590 --> 00:54:53.850
The other thing I wanna add is someone coming into politics

870
00:54:54.470 --> 00:54:56.970
just now doesn't appreciate it either.

871
00:54:57.830 --> 00:54:58.730
And I think

872
00:54:59.910 --> 00:55:00.490
I think,

873
00:55:01.910 --> 00:55:05.130
you know, you ever see someone, like, you try something,

874
00:55:05.510 --> 00:55:08.415
like, for you know, over and over and over again,

875
00:55:08.954 --> 00:55:11.375
and they walk in and just make it look easy,

876
00:55:12.395 --> 00:55:18.494
and they don't appreciate it because they made it look easy. Say someone who's, like, naturally gifted, like, on the basketball court or whatever.

877
00:55:21.299 --> 00:55:24.200
Actually, my brother. It's a great example. I have a younger brother,

878
00:55:24.900 --> 00:55:28.119
and, we're all over six foot tall, but he's, like, six seven.

879
00:55:28.819 --> 00:55:34.295
So he's just a monster, and he's way younger than me. And I played basketball. You know? I tried,

880
00:55:34.595 --> 00:55:37.895
all the way through school and stuff, and he just shows up and is, like,

881
00:55:38.595 --> 00:55:39.735
banging in threes.

882
00:55:40.195 --> 00:55:41.335
He's six seven.

883
00:55:41.635 --> 00:55:49.760
He can handle the ball. And it was just like, dude, you don't even understand how lucky you are. Like, we all would die. This is a horrible example, by the way. This is the one that came to mind.

884
00:55:51.580 --> 00:55:54.160
And I just kinda wanted to give my brother a shout out.

885
00:55:54.620 --> 00:55:55.680
Like, listen.

886
00:55:57.100 --> 00:55:58.320
This doesn't happen.

887
00:55:58.780 --> 00:56:00.880
That's this is my point. Like, you

888
00:56:01.395 --> 00:56:04.055
this does not happen this way. I worked

889
00:56:04.435 --> 00:56:19.070
in the Bitcoin space at a nonprofit for a few years now, but, like, I some of those guys just joining, I spent a decade in public affairs, government relations. My my father was a state representative until he term limited out, which I love the idea of term limits, by the way.

890
00:56:19.450 --> 00:56:22.590
And another family member was a state representative at my home state.

891
00:56:23.130 --> 00:56:26.110
I was, you know, kinda ear to the ground through,

892
00:56:26.730 --> 00:56:35.015
my, like, you know, high school, college years. I ended up working in in my home state for a while. I work I've been in 40 different states.

893
00:56:35.315 --> 00:56:35.974
I've lobbied.

894
00:56:36.595 --> 00:56:43.559
This doesn't happen this way, especially for some, like, geek group that, like, it you know, just shows

895
00:56:43.859 --> 00:56:46.520
up, doesn't have a CEO, has no centralization

896
00:56:46.900 --> 00:56:49.559
of, like, authority or, like, way to just

897
00:56:50.660 --> 00:56:52.039
and even if you do,

898
00:56:52.500 --> 00:56:55.140
like, take any you could try hundred

899
00:56:55.795 --> 00:56:57.575
it would never happen this way.

900
00:56:58.035 --> 00:57:01.255
You don't just, like, show up day one and get executive orders.

901
00:57:01.635 --> 00:57:05.815
You don't just say, hey. This isn't fair. We need to change regulation, and

902
00:57:06.995 --> 00:57:11.415
the United States government says, you know what? You're right. We're gonna change that.

903
00:57:11.820 --> 00:57:15.920
You're right. This isn't fair. It doesn't happen that way, and it definitely doesn't happen in nine months,

904
00:57:17.180 --> 00:57:18.400
but it just did.

905
00:57:19.180 --> 00:57:20.720
This is you can hire

906
00:57:21.100 --> 00:57:21.840
a a top

907
00:57:22.460 --> 00:57:22.960
tier.

908
00:57:23.500 --> 00:57:23.925
What

909
00:57:24.805 --> 00:57:26.345
do all the other adjectives

910
00:57:26.805 --> 00:57:28.505
lobby firm in any state

911
00:57:29.365 --> 00:57:30.665
or in the state capital

912
00:57:31.525 --> 00:57:33.305
or in the in the nation's capital,

913
00:57:34.005 --> 00:57:36.745
and you would be paying retainers for a decade.

914
00:57:37.430 --> 00:57:39.850
And maybe you get a winner too, small.

915
00:57:43.110 --> 00:57:44.410
Yet, here we are.

916
00:57:44.710 --> 00:57:45.210
And

917
00:57:45.670 --> 00:57:46.250
I think,

918
00:57:47.110 --> 00:57:50.010
to me, I'm like, oh my god. Like, this is

919
00:57:52.655 --> 00:57:54.275
it's a miracle, honestly.

920
00:57:54.655 --> 00:58:02.994
And I know I know everybody like, there's all the cynical side of it, and I completely understand that. But within a vacuum of just like

921
00:58:03.295 --> 00:58:05.235
this, like, this is a

922
00:58:06.015 --> 00:58:07.155
this is a coup.

923
00:58:07.730 --> 00:58:08.230
And

924
00:58:09.089 --> 00:58:13.829
I I just have a deep appreciation, a deep gratitude for everyone who

925
00:58:15.089 --> 00:58:17.190
who was involved and is involved,

926
00:58:17.490 --> 00:58:20.470
the David Bailey's of the world, whatever you think about all these people,

927
00:58:21.405 --> 00:58:22.705
I think they did something

928
00:58:23.165 --> 00:58:23.665
incredible,

929
00:58:24.205 --> 00:58:30.705
and, I'm really grateful for it. And I you know, you can't change my mind on that because I've just seen how hard it is.

930
00:58:32.125 --> 00:58:39.840
And and the cynicism is well earned, and maybe things go back to how they were or get worse. I don't know the future. But right now,

931
00:58:40.460 --> 00:58:41.840
we have a massive opportunity.

932
00:58:42.540 --> 00:58:43.040
And,

933
00:58:43.580 --> 00:58:52.984
and I I see what I see are are people who are really trying to take advantage of it. And the first thing we gotta do is get these guys out of prison because and and get get this trial over worth with because it's,

934
00:58:53.625 --> 00:58:54.605
it's a disgrace.

935
00:58:55.145 --> 00:58:55.645
And

936
00:58:56.345 --> 00:58:57.885
I think what you saw with Ross,

937
00:58:58.265 --> 00:58:59.244
that doesn't happen.

938
00:58:59.865 --> 00:59:02.525
And even go to the state level. You know? Man,

939
00:59:03.230 --> 00:59:04.849
government takes forever,

940
00:59:05.630 --> 00:59:08.130
and that can work for you or against you. Right?

941
00:59:08.670 --> 00:59:16.609
I think that's that's my favorite thing about government is that it's the most inefficient system in the history of mankind. I love that about government.

942
00:59:16.955 --> 00:59:26.735
I think it should always be inefficient, except for whenever I wanted to do something. Right? Of course. Like, then we want it to be hyper efficient and happen tomorrow. And in this case, it did. It's just kinda crazy to me.

943
00:59:27.195 --> 00:59:30.335
I'm not, like, trying to overly, you know,

944
00:59:30.680 --> 00:59:35.980
like, over trying to sell this to anyone. I'm just telling you my my opinion and what I see based on, like,

945
00:59:36.520 --> 00:59:42.460
career and politics. And even people I know that aren't in Bitcoin, they're like, how the hell did you guys pull that off?

946
00:59:43.095 --> 00:59:43.915
They're like, that's

947
00:59:44.775 --> 00:59:47.675
you know? And it's, you know, there's a lot of people working

948
00:59:48.215 --> 00:59:49.895
behind the scenes. And,

949
00:59:50.535 --> 00:59:51.355
and I

950
00:59:51.735 --> 00:59:56.315
I appreciate those people who did because they really risked a lot because it could've hit yeah. Anyway.

951
00:59:57.320 --> 00:59:59.500
Well said. I mean, so why do you

952
01:00:00.200 --> 01:00:05.100
why do you think it I have my own reasons about why why I think it was possible.

953
01:00:05.800 --> 01:00:11.420
How did how the hell did we pull it off? How the hell did we make so much progress in really,

954
01:00:12.375 --> 01:00:16.715
basically, a year? And not really like, Bitcoin Policy Institute got created

955
01:00:17.015 --> 01:00:22.475
three years ago, four years ago, but the real progress was the last year, year and a half.

956
01:00:23.495 --> 01:00:23.995
Yeah.

957
01:00:24.455 --> 01:00:25.995
Well, first of all,

958
01:00:27.130 --> 01:00:31.609
I don't I don't think my opinion is, like, the definitive opinion. There's other

959
01:00:32.730 --> 01:00:38.349
are better equipped to answer that. But I think that I think that, I think a few things, like,

960
01:00:38.730 --> 01:00:39.230
happened.

961
01:00:40.105 --> 01:00:41.725
Some people had a really good plan.

962
01:00:42.505 --> 01:00:43.725
It takes a good plan.

963
01:00:44.025 --> 01:00:45.405
It takes, like, good timing

964
01:00:46.505 --> 01:00:47.005
and,

965
01:00:47.625 --> 01:00:48.605
and some luck.

966
01:00:49.545 --> 01:00:50.045
And

967
01:00:51.145 --> 01:00:53.485
and then I also think it helps to be right.

968
01:00:53.850 --> 01:00:56.030
And this is something I talk about a lot

969
01:00:56.410 --> 01:01:01.550
with with, our work at BPI is that it really helps to be just right.

970
01:01:01.930 --> 01:01:02.410
And,

971
01:01:03.930 --> 01:01:04.670
and Bitcoiners

972
01:01:04.970 --> 01:01:06.670
are right about most things.

973
01:01:07.885 --> 01:01:09.425
And and so you're like, hey.

974
01:01:09.885 --> 01:01:10.545
You know,

975
01:01:11.245 --> 01:01:13.345
Bitcoin's good for The United States Of America.

976
01:01:15.085 --> 01:01:24.940
I think that's true. And I think, you know, you stand some other things up against it. Like, hey. Like, ripple is good for The United States Of America. I think that's not true. I mean, whatever.

977
01:01:26.040 --> 01:01:31.020
Like, it doesn't make any yeah. So it helps to be right because there are people,

978
01:01:31.320 --> 01:01:35.580
believe it or not, who do give a damn about what's right and wrong,

979
01:01:36.395 --> 01:01:37.615
who are seeking

980
01:01:38.315 --> 01:01:42.734
the truth and trying to do the best they can. And some of them even work in congress,

981
01:01:43.115 --> 01:01:44.095
believe it or not.

982
01:01:44.714 --> 01:01:58.830
Am I saying all elected officials are that way? Of course not. That's a that would be a ridiculous statement. But I think it's equally ridiculous to say that all of them are bad. I think there are people who are really trying to do try to serve their country, and they mean what they say.

983
01:01:59.609 --> 01:02:01.070
And I've met those people.

984
01:02:01.930 --> 01:02:13.725
And I've known people who were great people before they went into office and turned into horrible people. And I've seen people who were great people before they went into office and became better people and became better leaders.

985
01:02:14.345 --> 01:02:20.920
And I've seen people who were horrible people before they went to office. Most of them were pretty much stayed horrible people once they got in office.

986
01:02:21.300 --> 01:02:24.040
But, but I think being right helps.

987
01:02:24.579 --> 01:02:27.880
And I think, you know, I think we're onto something here with this.

988
01:02:28.260 --> 01:02:33.585
I think that's I think I think that's the message that resonated in in, you know,

989
01:02:34.065 --> 01:02:40.484
the further up we go is people are like, yeah. Either they already knew about Bitcoin, and they're like, yeah, dude. I've always thought Bitcoin was super cool. I'm like,

990
01:02:40.945 --> 01:02:48.210
man, finally, I can start talking about this a little more. I think we're seeing some of that. There's more Bitcoiners in in DC than we ever imagined. Right?

991
01:02:49.010 --> 01:02:50.150
Even at three letter

992
01:02:50.450 --> 01:02:50.950
agencies,

993
01:02:51.490 --> 01:02:52.710
that are, like, kinda

994
01:02:53.410 --> 01:02:53.990
you know?

995
01:02:55.330 --> 01:03:06.065
These you know, there's thousands of people in cubicles. Right? And they've got their little Bitcoin stuff pinned up in their cubicle, and everybody's just like you know, they talk about their lunch break just like normal people would.

996
01:03:06.445 --> 01:03:13.185
And now they're like, oh, this is sort of in vogue. Like, this is happening. This is a topic. Now I can talk about it at work.

997
01:03:13.485 --> 01:03:15.330
I think we're seeing some of that play out too.

998
01:03:15.890 --> 01:03:17.650
Yeah. I mean, at the event last,

999
01:03:19.650 --> 01:03:25.590
month, I had an older gentleman come up to me and he said, huge fan of the podcast and that he used to work at the agency.

1000
01:03:26.290 --> 01:03:30.470
And I was hoping he was referring to the EPA, but he was referring to the CIA.

1001
01:03:31.464 --> 01:03:32.365
And there's just

1002
01:03:32.665 --> 01:03:34.045
there's Bitcoiners everywhere.

1003
01:03:34.505 --> 01:03:42.765
There's Bitcoiners everywhere. And the I think your points make a lot of sense. And and just this fact that we we have this organic grassroots

1004
01:03:43.224 --> 01:03:44.204
global community,

1005
01:03:45.860 --> 01:03:48.600
of of people that have relatively aligned

1006
01:03:50.740 --> 01:04:08.335
ideas, but more importantly, aligned incentives around this this network and this asset. Right? And and and and it's almost like it's like a shared equity. Right? It's like as as this as this network grows, we all have increased purchasing power. We all have increased freedom to do with what we want in our lives.

1007
01:04:09.355 --> 01:04:10.494
And so this grassroots

1008
01:04:10.795 --> 01:04:12.095
community already existed.

1009
01:04:12.395 --> 01:04:22.070
So, like, when the backs were up against the wall and the the the moment was was here and and we had to act, a lot of people stepped up. And they didn't have to be

1010
01:04:22.370 --> 01:04:23.110
cold called

1011
01:04:23.890 --> 01:04:31.015
or they didn't have to knock on their doors or whatever. Like, they were ready to go. They were like, put me in coach. Time to go. Let's fucking make this thing happen.

1012
01:04:31.395 --> 01:04:37.335
And that's special. That's you can't recreate that. It doesn't matter how much VC money you have from, like, a 16 z or whatever.

1013
01:04:37.635 --> 01:04:39.895
You can spend billions of fucking dollars,

1014
01:04:40.355 --> 01:04:42.135
and you can't recreate that.

1015
01:04:42.579 --> 01:04:48.520
That has to happen naturally and organically, and it's one of the single most bullish fundamentals about Bitcoin in general.

1016
01:04:49.540 --> 01:04:51.079
That's a fantastic point.

1017
01:04:51.780 --> 01:04:57.465
The one of the most hilarious things to be a part of, and I and most, like, campaigns are this way.

1018
01:04:58.665 --> 01:04:59.885
You start this campaign,

1019
01:05:00.265 --> 01:05:02.205
you know, whatever the issue is.

1020
01:05:03.945 --> 01:05:04.445
And

1021
01:05:04.825 --> 01:05:05.725
and so as

1022
01:05:06.025 --> 01:05:11.725
you see, for people listening, when I talk about campaigns, there's, like, candidate campaigns where you're like, hey. Let's get this person elected.

1023
01:05:12.069 --> 01:05:12.890
And then there's issue

1024
01:05:13.430 --> 01:05:15.049
advocacy, issue campaigns.

1025
01:05:15.349 --> 01:05:16.569
And that can be,

1026
01:05:17.510 --> 01:05:18.970
you know, hey. We wanna,

1027
01:05:19.430 --> 01:05:20.089
you know,

1028
01:05:21.109 --> 01:05:21.930
lower taxes,

1029
01:05:22.390 --> 01:05:25.369
right, at you know, in this state or wherever.

1030
01:05:27.125 --> 01:05:27.625
And,

1031
01:05:28.325 --> 01:05:29.865
and so then you're like

1032
01:05:30.244 --> 01:05:34.105
you always see a campaign because they're like, alright. We've got all this money

1033
01:05:34.964 --> 01:05:36.505
from interested parties.

1034
01:05:37.765 --> 01:05:39.625
We raise all this money up.

1035
01:05:40.380 --> 01:05:43.760
And then you're like, alright. What do we do with it? We're gonna run a campaign.

1036
01:05:44.380 --> 01:05:47.339
We're gonna do media and all this shit. And,

1037
01:05:47.900 --> 01:05:52.400
the big thing at the top, though, is like, we need hey. You know what we need? We need some grassroots

1038
01:05:53.339 --> 01:05:53.839
advocacy.

1039
01:05:54.945 --> 01:05:57.605
And they're like, oh, cool. Yeah. Great idea.

1040
01:05:58.145 --> 01:06:00.965
Alright. Let's cobble together our grassroots team.

1041
01:06:01.345 --> 01:06:03.125
And what's the thing they do?

1042
01:06:03.745 --> 01:06:06.885
They realize they don't have a goddamn grassroots team,

1043
01:06:07.425 --> 01:06:07.925
because

1044
01:06:08.360 --> 01:06:14.380
thing that most thing like, most issues have. Most people are busy. They're going to work. They're raising kids.

1045
01:06:14.760 --> 01:06:16.380
They're, like, doing their thing,

1046
01:06:16.760 --> 01:06:17.420
you know,

1047
01:06:17.960 --> 01:06:19.260
shopping for groceries.

1048
01:06:19.560 --> 01:06:21.980
Like, their kid's sick. Like, whatever.

1049
01:06:22.775 --> 01:06:25.115
I don't have time to be a grassroots advocate.

1050
01:06:25.975 --> 01:06:28.235
And so then you have to artificially

1051
01:06:28.615 --> 01:06:29.115
create

1052
01:06:29.975 --> 01:06:33.755
this grassroots support. You're like, I know people like tax cuts.

1053
01:06:34.310 --> 01:06:39.530
They just don't really care enough to, like, show up to events or anything because they're busy. So, like,

1054
01:06:39.910 --> 01:06:42.090
you know, some groups will pay

1055
01:06:42.470 --> 01:06:43.930
protesters to show up.

1056
01:06:44.390 --> 01:06:46.170
I know everybody's shocked to hear that.

1057
01:06:49.494 --> 01:06:59.595
And so they spend, you know, millions of dollars to pay people to show up, or they, like, send a thousand emails, and they try to get all your, like, phone numbers so they can text you.

1058
01:06:59.974 --> 01:07:00.955
And they artificially

1059
01:07:01.335 --> 01:07:09.800
create. And by artificially, I create create, I mean, they actually still don't do it. Even they spend all this money, they still can't get people to do anything because

1060
01:07:10.180 --> 01:07:12.520
you can't force people to care.

1061
01:07:13.700 --> 01:07:14.920
And with Bitcoin,

1062
01:07:16.215 --> 01:07:19.195
we kinda have the opposite problem. We have a fantastic

1063
01:07:19.575 --> 01:07:20.075
grassroots

1064
01:07:20.455 --> 01:07:20.955
network.

1065
01:07:21.335 --> 01:07:25.595
It's literally like the definition of, you know, the bit of Bitcoin.

1066
01:07:25.975 --> 01:07:26.375
And,

1067
01:07:27.095 --> 01:07:28.875
it it is what it is.

1068
01:07:30.770 --> 01:07:32.710
What did we not have? Like,

1069
01:07:34.210 --> 01:07:35.270
organization, centralization.

1070
01:07:35.810 --> 01:07:39.650
I'm not saying that's a thing. It's what the the reality of,

1071
01:07:40.130 --> 01:07:42.150
of the, like, boots on the ground.

1072
01:07:42.770 --> 01:07:44.775
And so I think you're seeing, like,

1073
01:07:45.815 --> 01:07:48.795
kind of the first thing you're talking about campaign strategy. You can have all this money

1074
01:07:49.174 --> 01:07:52.395
and, like, this powerful group of people that wanna enact some plan,

1075
01:07:53.095 --> 01:07:58.154
or you can have all these, like, random people who just care about something. Which one's gonna win?

1076
01:07:59.369 --> 01:08:02.750
Well, I think we're seeing that. And so I think there's a lot of power there.

1077
01:08:03.690 --> 01:08:04.990
Name one other group.

1078
01:08:06.170 --> 01:08:08.990
Maybe not one. Name five other groups that are

1079
01:08:09.450 --> 01:08:12.670
that have the same, like, level of grassroots passion,

1080
01:08:13.475 --> 01:08:17.095
that that you're see that you see for The the gun the gun lobby.

1081
01:08:17.795 --> 01:08:21.495
Right. Right. It's like it's like guns, religion, and Bitcoin.

1082
01:08:22.515 --> 01:08:23.015
Right.

1083
01:08:23.395 --> 01:08:23.895
Yeah.

1084
01:08:24.275 --> 01:08:24.775
Yeah.

1085
01:08:25.330 --> 01:08:26.390
It's pretty

1086
01:08:26.770 --> 01:08:27.590
pretty accurate.

1087
01:08:28.210 --> 01:08:30.230
Those are the three. Like, religious

1088
01:08:30.770 --> 01:08:36.210
grassroots and gun grassroots groups have been pretty successful over the years. Yeah. And so,

1089
01:08:36.770 --> 01:08:39.670
you know, I I think a lot of it is

1090
01:08:40.534 --> 01:08:43.355
the power of that, and, then a lot of it is also,

1091
01:08:43.975 --> 01:08:45.114
people are in power

1092
01:08:45.655 --> 01:08:46.554
seeing that,

1093
01:08:47.574 --> 01:08:50.875
and saying, oh, damn. I don't know if we wanna

1094
01:08:51.735 --> 01:08:52.795
align against

1095
01:08:53.110 --> 01:08:56.730
this group because we we you know, even if you wanted to,

1096
01:08:57.830 --> 01:08:59.850
you it's not like there's a grassroots

1097
01:09:00.470 --> 01:09:01.850
passionate group of,

1098
01:09:02.150 --> 01:09:04.410
you know, sovereign individuals that

1099
01:09:05.030 --> 01:09:10.164
have all got together to talk about how bad Bitcoin is or how bad you know, this this doesn't exist.

1100
01:09:10.545 --> 01:09:13.364
And so there's zero opposition on the grassroots side.

1101
01:09:13.824 --> 01:09:24.680
Although some would like to try to convince you otherwise or, do the do the old strategy of have a lot of money, and, hopefully, dollars equates grassroots support. It just doesn't work that way.

1102
01:09:25.140 --> 01:09:26.520
Yep. Well said.

1103
01:09:26.980 --> 01:09:32.040
So you guys have this big event coming up, your your landmark event coming up, next month.

1104
01:09:34.065 --> 01:09:35.525
What's the deal with that?

1105
01:09:36.145 --> 01:09:37.365
Should people go?

1106
01:09:39.025 --> 01:09:42.725
No. What's what's are you excited about it? Is it sold out already?

1107
01:09:43.505 --> 01:10:07.455
What's up? Yeah. Yeah. So Bitcoin the Bitcoin policy summit, this is our third annual. I feel like when you get to the third one, you can really start saying annual. You know? Can't say I was thinking it's Right. I was thinking it's funny when you see, like, a restaurant or whatever, and they have the established sign outside, and it's like last year. It's like, okay. Well, you're a dreamer. You know, one day if one day, it'll be old. But Yeah. Unless you're doing Sorry. Third annual.

1108
01:10:07.915 --> 01:10:11.535
Unless you're doing it ironically, then it's like, hey. That's pretty funny. You know?

1109
01:10:12.555 --> 01:10:14.815
But third annual Bitcoin I'm at,

1110
01:10:15.195 --> 01:10:17.375
June 25 in Washington DC.

1111
01:10:18.155 --> 01:10:23.610
And we love like I said earlier, we love to have as many Bitcoiners as possible show up.

1112
01:10:25.110 --> 01:10:29.449
It's it's gonna be a blast if you like, if you like that kind of thing.

1113
01:10:30.150 --> 01:10:30.650
But,

1114
01:10:31.590 --> 01:10:33.909
and I do, and I think everyone here does.

1115
01:10:34.230 --> 01:10:40.014
It's it's gonna be a monumental summit. It really is. I'm not saying that just because it's ours or just because whatever, but, like,

1116
01:10:40.875 --> 01:10:47.295
it's gonna be it's gonna be freaking huge, man. You saw it happen with Bitcoin for America. We can play the video again later or whatever,

1117
01:10:48.199 --> 01:10:48.940
in March.

1118
01:10:49.320 --> 01:10:51.080
And we're here. We're,

1119
01:10:51.640 --> 01:10:55.820
we're bring our whole goal for the summit, and this is why we started it a few years ago,

1120
01:10:56.440 --> 01:11:00.380
isn't to sell a bunch of tickets or, like, you know, all this kind of stuff.

1121
01:11:00.840 --> 01:11:02.460
It really to get

1122
01:11:03.185 --> 01:11:05.685
Bitcoiners on stage, our best and brightest,

1123
01:11:06.465 --> 01:11:07.605
and to make the case

1124
01:11:08.385 --> 01:11:10.405
for elected officials, policymakers,

1125
01:11:10.785 --> 01:11:13.285
regulatory bodies, government agencies,

1126
01:11:13.985 --> 01:11:14.885
all the people,

1127
01:11:15.665 --> 01:11:18.989
that either make decisions or help influence decisions

1128
01:11:19.850 --> 01:11:27.310
and say, hey. Like, Bitcoin's awesome, man. And Bitcoin's good for our country. And there's a lot of people that support,

1129
01:11:28.410 --> 01:11:31.469
you know, peer to peer rights and all these things we've been talking about.

1130
01:11:31.995 --> 01:11:36.815
Decentralized network, like the ability to, you know, self custody, all these sort of things. And why that's

1131
01:11:37.115 --> 01:11:43.295
not just, like, why people support it, but why that's a good idea and how it interlocks with the greater ideals

1132
01:11:43.675 --> 01:11:45.055
of United States Of America.

1133
01:11:45.435 --> 01:11:45.935
And

1134
01:11:46.489 --> 01:11:48.190
to take it further, and I'm gonna,

1135
01:11:49.130 --> 01:11:51.790
trip and stumble over Matt Pine's territory here,

1136
01:11:52.570 --> 01:11:55.550
you know, how it helps The United States

1137
01:11:55.850 --> 01:11:58.989
or could help The United States kind of fulfill some of its goals,

1138
01:11:59.370 --> 01:12:00.910
as far as nation state competition

1139
01:12:01.785 --> 01:12:03.965
and, some of the things we're facing internationally

1140
01:12:04.585 --> 01:12:07.485
in the next ten years, five years, two days,

1141
01:12:08.265 --> 01:12:09.565
apparently now.

1142
01:12:10.265 --> 01:12:22.770
So that's kind of the vision is to get the staffers out there in the audience to get Bitcoiners on stage. So they're opposite of what you normally see in Washington, DC. They're always talking to you, and we say, hey. You wanna hear about Bitcoin?

1143
01:12:23.470 --> 01:12:27.410
And we actually you know, even a few years ago, had the first one, it was like

1144
01:12:28.270 --> 01:12:31.890
I joined I put full time with Bitcoin Policy Institute,

1145
01:12:32.275 --> 01:12:35.175
and it was, like, a month later, like, FTX collapses.

1146
01:12:36.195 --> 01:12:37.655
Everything's on fire.

1147
01:12:38.115 --> 01:12:38.775
You know?

1148
01:12:39.955 --> 01:12:41.895
People are running out of buildings, and,

1149
01:12:42.275 --> 01:12:45.050
it was all all hell broke loose. And,

1150
01:12:45.430 --> 01:12:46.250
and so

1151
01:12:46.550 --> 01:12:48.170
you see how that, like, impacted

1152
01:12:49.590 --> 01:12:57.050
us. Well, imagine the impact it had in Washington DC for people who didn't know any most of their first experience, their baseline,

1153
01:12:57.750 --> 01:12:58.490
you know, and

1154
01:12:59.275 --> 01:13:04.635
Bitcoin came from. They're like, well, what what the hell is FTX or an SBF? But, they buzzed in pretty

1155
01:13:05.995 --> 01:13:10.415
and, oh, Bitcoin? Oh, I've always wondered what Bitcoin was. Now I understand.

1156
01:13:11.000 --> 01:13:17.500
So it created, like, kind of a kind of a a pretty bad situation, especially for a Bitcoin policy think tank in DC.

1157
01:13:18.040 --> 01:13:24.780
So we said, alright. We've gotta hit reboot, man. We've gotta turn the power off and turn it back on again. And so

1158
01:13:25.455 --> 01:13:35.155
we just decided to own it. We said, hey. FTX collapsed. Bitcoin looks pretty bad right now. Why don't you come to the summit and let's talk about it?

1159
01:13:36.255 --> 01:13:40.160
And we had a lot of people show up. And so we were able to talk to talk to this,

1160
01:13:40.640 --> 01:13:42.739
this group of, like, few hundred

1161
01:13:43.040 --> 01:13:43.540
policymakers

1162
01:13:44.080 --> 01:13:46.820
and say, hey. Here's what Bitcoin really is.

1163
01:13:47.199 --> 01:13:48.980
We think this was horrible too.

1164
01:13:49.360 --> 01:13:51.060
We don't support any of this.

1165
01:13:51.555 --> 01:13:55.975
Here's some human rights activists. Here's how they use Bitcoin. Here's a real use case.

1166
01:13:56.435 --> 01:13:59.655
This is not a real use case. This was a bad use case.

1167
01:14:00.515 --> 01:14:03.810
In fact, this was kind of opposite of what Bitcoin stands for.

1168
01:14:04.530 --> 01:14:10.310
But here's what Bitcoin is really about. And here's people that you can trust, and here's what they're doing with it

1169
01:14:10.690 --> 01:14:11.750
and with the network.

1170
01:14:12.530 --> 01:14:15.110
And that was powerful. We had some really powerful,

1171
01:14:15.650 --> 01:14:16.150
compelling,

1172
01:14:17.010 --> 01:14:17.510
speakers.

1173
01:14:18.050 --> 01:14:23.405
So we ran it back the next year, and it was like, should Bitcoin should, America embrace Bitcoin?

1174
01:14:24.345 --> 01:14:28.125
And we made the case why we thought that was probably a good idea. And,

1175
01:14:28.665 --> 01:14:33.645
you know, I don't know if it's prophetic or what, but, like, kinda seems like it happened a little bit this year.

1176
01:14:34.200 --> 01:14:36.700
And so this year, in June 25,

1177
01:14:36.920 --> 01:14:39.739
we're gonna say, okay. America's embracing Bitcoin.

1178
01:14:40.120 --> 01:14:40.860
Now what?

1179
01:14:41.160 --> 01:14:42.219
What happens next?

1180
01:14:42.680 --> 01:14:46.140
And I think we're gonna run it back with Andrew Holmes. He's on the speaker's,

1181
01:14:46.680 --> 01:14:48.140
list now. We're talking

1182
01:14:48.675 --> 01:14:55.975
bonds, you know, keynote two point o. Super excited about that. He's obviously our boy and your boy. You're a great guy.

1183
01:14:56.515 --> 01:15:01.495
We have a couple, we've announced a couple elected officials speaking. We're gonna make a major announcement tomorrow.

1184
01:15:02.330 --> 01:15:06.590
It's gonna be it's gonna be cool. We got some big get some big heavy hitters coming,

1185
01:15:07.130 --> 01:15:09.470
and, we're gonna do a full day of,

1186
01:15:10.490 --> 01:15:14.750
really keynotes. We've kind of we've kinda moved away from the panel. So I have a couple panels,

1187
01:15:15.525 --> 01:15:22.025
that are compelling, some really good ones. But, we're we're gonna do a lot of keynotes, like lightning talks, like ten minutes.

1188
01:15:22.725 --> 01:15:25.305
And, just, you know, mining energy,

1189
01:15:26.245 --> 01:15:28.140
the strategic initiatives there,

1190
01:15:28.540 --> 01:15:32.720
you know, Bitcoin, strategic Bitcoin reserve, human rights, like, up and down the line.

1191
01:15:33.420 --> 01:15:33.920
The

1192
01:15:34.300 --> 01:15:40.640
fun thing that I think people are gonna be asked about so you show up on Tuesday, Tuesday night, show up early,

1193
01:15:41.295 --> 01:15:42.195
Boring Odell.

1194
01:15:44.815 --> 01:15:49.955
And show we're going to do a preview party at the new,

1195
01:15:50.895 --> 01:15:54.435
Pub Key that's gonna be opening in Washington DC.

1196
01:15:55.080 --> 01:15:56.860
Is that public information? Yeah.

1197
01:15:58.119 --> 01:16:02.599
Yeah. That's that's out there, man. We're doing a we're doing a party. I mean, it definitely is now. So

1198
01:16:03.239 --> 01:16:04.699
Yeah. It's out there now.

1199
01:16:05.080 --> 01:16:05.580
And,

1200
01:16:06.280 --> 01:16:09.179
and so, you know, it's BPI HQ,

1201
01:16:10.015 --> 01:16:11.635
the Bitcoin Embassy, PubKey,

1202
01:16:12.655 --> 01:16:21.395
DC. That's gonna open a long time from now, but if you come to the summit, you get a little preview on it. We're gonna do a little party there. Yeah. The the BPI offices will be based in the same

1203
01:16:21.940 --> 01:16:29.320
the same building as new Pub QDC because everyone knows that policy really happens over drinks in a darkly lit bar.

1204
01:16:29.780 --> 01:16:32.679
That's right. It's where the real work gets done when everybody's

1205
01:16:33.699 --> 01:16:34.199
intoxicated

1206
01:16:34.500 --> 01:16:35.719
and, you know, singing,

1207
01:16:36.340 --> 01:16:36.840
Irish

1208
01:16:37.335 --> 01:16:37.835
songs.

1209
01:16:39.495 --> 01:16:40.155
It's shanties.

1210
01:16:40.775 --> 01:16:42.395
Yeah. She we need some Bitcoin

1211
01:16:42.855 --> 01:16:43.915
shanties, man.

1212
01:16:45.095 --> 01:16:46.475
We're working on it.

1213
01:16:46.935 --> 01:16:47.975
Or 334

1214
01:16:47.975 --> 01:16:49.410
time, you know, 12.

1215
01:16:50.290 --> 01:16:55.430
We can write one. That's what we'll do next, Rit, man. We'll write some I had my I had my,

1216
01:16:57.090 --> 01:17:01.590
we were out to lunch with my son with our son, my wife and I.

1217
01:17:02.545 --> 01:17:14.245
And he's, he's speaking words. He's got, you know, his first base words, but he's still a little bit young for, like, full words. And she just, like, went into a shanty, but just complete gibberish, you know, like, it was a toddler shanty.

1218
01:17:15.040 --> 01:17:23.540
And I I came to the same conclusion. I was like, we do need some Bitcoiner ones. But he, like, was looking around the cafe. He wanted people to join in with him, and everyone's like, we have no idea what you're saying.

1219
01:17:26.000 --> 01:17:26.500
Abel's

1220
01:17:26.880 --> 01:17:30.905
yeah. Bitcoin. We need some Bitcoin limericks as well. Yeah.

1221
01:17:31.764 --> 01:17:35.224
But yeah. So Tuesday night So that's Tuesday night.

1222
01:17:35.844 --> 01:17:49.010
That's the twenty fourth, June '20 fourth. Tuesday night's launch Embassy launch party, come have some beers, hang out. We're gonna it's gonna be fun. Then we get serious on Wednesday, throw the tie on. We do the summit, all the keynotes.

1223
01:17:49.389 --> 01:17:51.329
We've got a VIP to wear a suit?

1224
01:17:53.550 --> 01:17:54.530
Strongly advised.

1225
01:17:54.985 --> 01:17:56.125
It's strongly advised.

1226
01:17:56.425 --> 01:17:57.485
I think you should.

1227
01:17:58.505 --> 01:17:59.245
You know,

1228
01:17:59.785 --> 01:18:01.325
I think it's kinda like

1229
01:18:02.025 --> 01:18:09.565
yeah. I think you're gonna want to or at least we're a, you know, we're a we're a button up. You can you can leave the top on a Don. I'd throw a button up.

1230
01:18:10.150 --> 01:18:11.610
I wore a collar. Draw

1231
01:18:11.910 --> 01:18:12.410
on.

1232
01:18:13.430 --> 01:18:14.090
You know.

1233
01:18:14.710 --> 01:18:24.810
I woulda had to buy to be clear, I woulda had to buy a suit because the only suit I own is my wedding suit, and it just didn't feel like the right situation for it.

1234
01:18:25.505 --> 01:18:29.045
I mean, how many more times married, man? Like,

1235
01:18:29.745 --> 01:18:30.645
wear your suit.

1236
01:18:31.265 --> 01:18:34.405
I know, but it's like a bright green. It was a little bit aggressive.

1237
01:18:37.340 --> 01:18:44.159
But yeah. Anyway, I mean, to be clear, that was my second time ever in DC, and the first time was a field trip during college.

1238
01:18:45.420 --> 01:18:51.280
Just to I was like, besides my wear my attire, I was completely out of my element.

1239
01:18:53.365 --> 01:18:57.225
Yeah. It's kinda weird, man, when you first kinda it's a it's a little,

1240
01:18:57.925 --> 01:19:01.145
there's a shock to the system. You know? It's like a cold plunge.

1241
01:19:01.445 --> 01:19:02.745
You know? You go to DC.

1242
01:19:04.005 --> 01:19:04.665
You know?

1243
01:19:05.045 --> 01:19:06.185
I currently I forget

1244
01:19:06.565 --> 01:19:07.785
it. Not been to I forget

1245
01:19:08.550 --> 01:19:10.730
If you not been to DC, this is a good chance.

1246
01:19:11.429 --> 01:19:18.650
I forget who the stat who the staff was, but when I walked in the first time, there was two BPI staff members, like,

1247
01:19:19.190 --> 01:19:20.409
taking people's tickets.

1248
01:19:21.485 --> 01:19:21.985
And

1249
01:19:22.365 --> 01:19:29.425
I walked up and, like, one of them was like, who's this schmuck that's completely underdressed? And the other one was like, oh, that's Matt O'Dell, one of our board members.

1250
01:19:31.165 --> 01:19:37.140
What a timeline we live in. Okay. So Tuesday, then Wednesday it's a two day event. Wednesday and Thursday is the event?

1251
01:19:38.100 --> 01:19:39.000
Tuesday night,

1252
01:19:39.380 --> 01:19:46.840
all day Wednesday is the summit, like, the the, you know, panels, the presentations, all that sort of thing. People hang out that night.

1253
01:19:47.300 --> 01:19:48.020
And then,

1254
01:19:48.420 --> 01:19:53.025
and, hey, we're still looking for a few sponsors to help us cover the cost of the event.

1255
01:19:53.885 --> 01:19:56.704
If you need to if you if you're interested, I'm your guy.

1256
01:19:57.244 --> 01:19:59.425
What's the way best way they could reach out?

1257
01:20:00.284 --> 01:20:02.385
Just shoot me an email. Shoot me an email.

1258
01:20:03.244 --> 01:20:03.744
Okay.

1259
01:20:06.030 --> 01:20:06.530
What?

1260
01:20:07.150 --> 01:20:08.849
You want me to share my email address?

1261
01:20:10.510 --> 01:20:14.610
I mean, yeah. If if you should probably share your email add I mean, I know it.

1262
01:20:15.150 --> 01:20:15.650
Alright.

1263
01:20:16.110 --> 01:20:19.070
SPollock@BTCpolicy.org.

1264
01:20:19.070 --> 01:20:23.405
S p o l l o c k at b t c policy dot org.

1265
01:20:24.105 --> 01:20:34.250
I think put it in the show notes because then the AI is just gonna start spamming you. But Right. I kinda like it. I like when AI spams me. It's like, like, it's kinda nice.

1266
01:20:34.869 --> 01:20:35.369
So

1267
01:20:36.710 --> 01:20:43.849
Wednesday is all the content. Thursday, we're doing Thursday's a new thing. So we're doing a day two this year, and we've never done that. So we're gonna have, like,

1268
01:20:44.309 --> 01:20:47.530
sort of closed door round tables, people meeting with elected officials,

1269
01:20:48.545 --> 01:20:54.245
And then we're gonna do a day on the hill, which is gonna be awesome. Our new government affairs director,

1270
01:20:54.625 --> 01:20:57.925
mister Egan, is leading the charge on that. And we're gonna take Bitcoiners,

1271
01:20:58.385 --> 01:21:03.780
and we're just gonna go to to, Capitol Hill, meet with congressional offices,

1272
01:21:04.160 --> 01:21:06.740
talk to them, introduce, hey. You know,

1273
01:21:07.440 --> 01:21:14.520
do the deal on the hill thing, which is, which is gonna be really fun. If you've never done something like that, we'd love for you to come and,

1274
01:21:14.960 --> 01:21:15.940
and be a part

1275
01:21:16.534 --> 01:21:17.835
be a part of the process.

1276
01:21:18.295 --> 01:21:26.775
You can you know, maybe you get to meet your elected official from your from your, you know, wherever, or you can just kinda be part of the group, whatever you wanna do, meet with staffers. They're always

1277
01:21:27.974 --> 01:21:43.260
I remember the first time I did one, and it was kinda like, oh, everybody's gonna be busy. Are they gonna be annoyed that I'm here or whatever? It's like it's actually kind of encouraging and kind of fun. You're like they're really excited. Like, hey. You came all the way to their office to talk about the thing you really care about.

1278
01:21:43.755 --> 01:21:47.455
And, I think you'll be hopefully, you'll be pleasantly surprised,

1279
01:21:48.155 --> 01:21:50.015
even for those of you who are a little skeptical,

1280
01:21:51.195 --> 01:22:04.290
to just kinda see there's there's some there's some normal people here that are really curious, intellectually curious, and they wanna know what what's up with Bitcoin. Why is this why is I think one of my favorite things one of my favorite stories is I had a staffer,

1281
01:22:04.989 --> 01:22:12.530
that I knew, and they're, like, kinda into Bitcoin, and they're interested, and, like, you know, they're talking about it in their staff meetings. And

1282
01:22:12.955 --> 01:22:17.855
and they they but they mentioned they're like, there's this guy on staff and, you know,

1283
01:22:18.955 --> 01:22:34.350
he's always talking about, like, illicit finance and, like, Bitcoin's, like, money laundering for drug lords or whatever. And so I was like, well, I happen to work at Bitcoin think tank. Let's test that and see. So we did a white paper about how that how that you know? And it's just, like, not the use case for Bitcoin, and

1284
01:22:34.810 --> 01:22:44.364
and, I caught up with him later. I said, hey. Did you ever hear from, you know, did you ever hear from, your fellow staffer? And he was like, yeah. I never mentioned that ever again in a meeting. So I was like, yeah. Cool.

1285
01:22:44.745 --> 01:22:47.324
You know, let's dunk on people with white papers.

1286
01:22:47.705 --> 01:22:48.364
And so,

1287
01:22:49.304 --> 01:22:53.485
they're like that. You know, there's people who wanna learn. You know? There's people who who are opposed.

1288
01:22:54.260 --> 01:22:59.080
There's opportunity there. We'd love for you to come out. It's gonna be it's gonna be phenomenal, week in in Washington.

1289
01:22:59.380 --> 01:23:02.440
And you can kinda see what we're about. You know? See what we're about.

1290
01:23:03.300 --> 01:23:07.515
Website is btcpolicysummit.org.

1291
01:23:07.655 --> 01:23:10.155
B t c policy summit Org.

1292
01:23:10.615 --> 01:23:12.555
And, we do have a

1293
01:23:13.015 --> 01:23:14.235
it's invite only,

1294
01:23:15.815 --> 01:23:18.395
but we ask you to apply to attend,

1295
01:23:19.095 --> 01:23:20.795
to keep the riffraff out.

1296
01:23:21.430 --> 01:23:34.490
And so, but, you know, I think pretty much, if you guys apply, I'll I'll check it out. I look at the, you know, we look at the all the you know? So please apply. We it you know? Unless you're, like,

1297
01:23:34.865 --> 01:23:35.685
on a terrorist watch

1298
01:23:35.985 --> 01:23:38.565
list, we probably you know, we may not let you in, but,

1299
01:23:39.265 --> 01:23:44.885
which maybe some of you are. You know? We're not gonna we're not gonna determine that here on the scheduled dispatch.

1300
01:23:45.345 --> 01:23:46.245
But if you're

1301
01:23:46.625 --> 01:23:48.165
if you're a functioning adult,

1302
01:23:48.990 --> 01:23:51.410
we'd probably love to have you. I would love to have you.

1303
01:23:51.870 --> 01:23:53.570
Yeah. I mean, like, space is limited.

1304
01:23:54.430 --> 01:23:56.930
The exact verbiage is request to join.

1305
01:23:58.430 --> 01:23:59.470
It is And,

1306
01:24:01.055 --> 01:24:03.155
we have sold a lot of tickets already

1307
01:24:03.615 --> 01:24:04.115
and

1308
01:24:04.655 --> 01:24:17.690
but I think, you know, we'll try to figure out a way to to make room for you. We'd love to have you. But, yeah, where where I was going with this is, like, don't be self conscious. The worst thing that you know, worst case scenario, there's no no space for you. And

1309
01:24:18.150 --> 01:24:18.650
and,

1310
01:24:19.110 --> 01:24:21.290
you know, Steven and his team will say so.

1311
01:24:22.070 --> 01:24:29.690
But you literally have nothing to lose. Consider getting out of your comfort zone and and attending. I will say that last month's event,

1312
01:24:30.685 --> 01:24:37.025
while overwhelming, was was something incredibly unique and impactful and something that I will never forget.

1313
01:24:38.045 --> 01:24:38.785
Full disclosure,

1314
01:24:41.245 --> 01:24:44.510
these are paid tickets. So it's $500

1315
01:24:44.510 --> 01:24:47.890
if you just want the one day ticket, and it's $800

1316
01:24:48.510 --> 01:24:50.370
if you want the day on the hill as well.

1317
01:24:51.950 --> 01:24:59.805
And, obviously, you will get your money back if if Steven rejects your application. We we're not just gonna take your money from you. Keeping your money.

1318
01:25:00.345 --> 01:25:01.325
No. And

1319
01:25:01.785 --> 01:25:03.165
Well, if Go on.

1320
01:25:03.945 --> 01:25:07.005
If ticket cost is the is the reason you're not coming,

1321
01:25:07.950 --> 01:25:10.130
please shoot me an email and figure something out.

1322
01:25:10.590 --> 01:25:13.090
Yeah. I I mean, to be clear here,

1323
01:25:14.670 --> 01:25:17.810
BTC the Bitcoin Policy Institute is a nonprofit.

1324
01:25:19.070 --> 01:25:20.770
We run on a relatively

1325
01:25:21.070 --> 01:25:22.130
shoestring budget.

1326
01:25:22.435 --> 01:25:26.695
I personally and the rest of our three person board do not get paid,

1327
01:25:27.554 --> 01:25:28.695
for our work there.

1328
01:25:29.795 --> 01:25:33.495
So any support is is helpful, whether that's buying a ticket and attending,

1329
01:25:33.955 --> 01:25:39.119
whether that's, you know, if you run a company becoming a sponsor of of the event or the organization,

1330
01:25:39.580 --> 01:25:43.440
or donating. You do if you're an American, you can get a tax credit.

1331
01:25:44.139 --> 01:25:50.745
If if if you wanna be anonymous, you can donate anonymously, and you won't get the tax credit. But you can donate anonymously with Bitcoin, which is,

1332
01:25:52.665 --> 01:25:53.165
also

1333
01:25:53.625 --> 01:25:54.125
completely

1334
01:25:54.585 --> 01:25:56.525
understated benefit of Bitcoin

1335
01:25:57.465 --> 01:25:59.085
through my work on both OpenSats

1336
01:26:00.105 --> 01:26:01.885
and Bitcoin Policy Institute.

1337
01:26:02.425 --> 01:26:06.060
It kinda blows your mind when someone sends, you know, $200,000

1338
01:26:06.060 --> 01:26:06.960
donation anonymously.

1339
01:26:07.980 --> 01:26:15.520
Like, I don't think people really appreciate that. That's 2 Bitcoin. You know? Someone just drops 2 Bitcoin in the donation address and boom, done.

1340
01:26:16.540 --> 01:26:18.720
That was never possible before. Kinda crazy.

1341
01:26:19.755 --> 01:26:21.135
Yeah. It is cool.

1342
01:26:21.594 --> 01:26:22.094
And,

1343
01:26:22.475 --> 01:26:25.855
you know, it would be cool if someone did that for us.

1344
01:26:26.875 --> 01:26:28.255
We would love it, man.

1345
01:26:28.715 --> 01:26:29.215
Yeah.

1346
01:26:29.594 --> 01:26:40.219
I'm afraid from wearing my, I've tried to my best to not wear my, VP of development hat, but you kinda handed it to me. So my old job at at BPI right now is focused on

1347
01:26:41.159 --> 01:26:46.540
helping the Bitcoin Policy Institute become an enduring institute you see. I don't think Bitcoin's going anywhere.

1348
01:26:47.805 --> 01:26:49.745
And I think but I do think that,

1349
01:26:51.085 --> 01:26:56.545
I think it's gonna become increasingly important that we have, like, thoughtful policy

1350
01:26:56.925 --> 01:27:01.185
in our in the most powerful country in in the world that we think about this carefully

1351
01:27:01.710 --> 01:27:06.450
as what there like it or not, policy is going to be made.

1352
01:27:07.950 --> 01:27:09.710
That's just true. And,

1353
01:27:10.670 --> 01:27:11.890
I think it would be better,

1354
01:27:12.910 --> 01:27:19.954
if if with regard to Bitcoin, specifically, I mean, Bitcoin policy is going to happen, and we've already seen

1355
01:27:20.735 --> 01:27:21.635
what can happen.

1356
01:27:22.014 --> 01:27:22.675
I think,

1357
01:27:23.295 --> 01:27:24.034
the more

1358
01:27:24.335 --> 01:27:28.530
more people in the room that have an understanding of Bitcoin appreciation for it,

1359
01:27:29.650 --> 01:27:34.230
may even own it or at least think it's really interesting and cool and important,

1360
01:27:34.610 --> 01:27:35.270
the better.

1361
01:27:35.650 --> 01:27:41.429
And so our whole job as a nonprofit is to educate elected officials, educate policy makers, staffers,

1362
01:27:41.755 --> 01:27:48.015
anyone, everyone who will listen in our nation's capital, and to help them grow in their Bitcoin journey to understand it,

1363
01:27:48.315 --> 01:27:50.975
and then to offer sort of, like, you know,

1364
01:27:51.435 --> 01:27:51.935
wisdom,

1365
01:27:52.875 --> 01:27:59.230
about policy and things that it could you know, second order effects that maybe people haven't thought through all the way,

1366
01:28:00.410 --> 01:28:02.830
that might happen down the road. And so

1367
01:28:03.210 --> 01:28:07.310
that's what we do. We you know, people run things by us. We run things by them.

1368
01:28:07.690 --> 01:28:09.470
It's a lot of off the books meetings,

1369
01:28:09.930 --> 01:28:11.630
a lot of off the books meetings

1370
01:28:12.305 --> 01:28:13.125
with our team,

1371
01:28:13.985 --> 01:28:14.485
and

1372
01:28:14.865 --> 01:28:17.525
and and trying to help our country be wise

1373
01:28:18.225 --> 01:28:20.005
as it's making decisions

1374
01:28:20.785 --> 01:28:21.265
about,

1375
01:28:21.665 --> 01:28:26.370
policy and directives, with regard to Bitcoin and digital currencies and all the whole sorta

1376
01:28:28.930 --> 01:28:33.670
of the whole thing. And so my job's help us become a a legacy institution. It's not just here, you know, for a few years or five years, but,

1377
01:28:34.770 --> 01:28:37.510
five, ten, twenty years, thirty years down the line,

1378
01:28:38.210 --> 01:28:41.805
that that BPI would become the type of organization that,

1379
01:28:42.285 --> 01:28:43.905
oh, yeah. Like, man,

1380
01:28:45.085 --> 01:28:48.705
you know, they were I remember when BPI was, you know,

1381
01:28:49.005 --> 01:28:51.645
on the front lines back in 2025

1382
01:28:51.645 --> 01:28:53.025
and 2023.

1383
01:28:53.725 --> 01:29:01.079
And look at it now. Like, look at we never would have imagined where we are, and I'm glad that maybe some of the things we're doing now

1384
01:29:01.380 --> 01:29:03.239
or have done or will do soon

1385
01:29:04.179 --> 01:29:12.119
will have a lasting impact. And we'll look back and say, man, I'm glad we really took that seriously back then because it could've went a lot differently.

1386
01:29:12.915 --> 01:29:16.695
So that's the kind of that's the kind of institution we're trying to build.

1387
01:29:17.475 --> 01:29:19.175
We've got a lot of work to do.

1388
01:29:19.555 --> 01:29:21.415
We're really just getting started, and

1389
01:29:22.195 --> 01:29:29.309
we can't charge for our services as a nonprofit five zero one c three. That's why we get a tax exempt status. We rely on,

1390
01:29:29.929 --> 01:29:32.590
we rely on people to to fund our work, and,

1391
01:29:33.050 --> 01:29:37.550
a lot of people have been very generous. And so if you're if you've supported us and you're listening,

1392
01:29:38.329 --> 01:29:39.070
thank you.

1393
01:29:40.635 --> 01:29:49.215
Literally could not do it without you, and, couldn't do it without you, Matt. Thanks for your your support. I know you put a ton of time and energy

1394
01:29:49.595 --> 01:29:50.815
into BPI and

1395
01:29:51.115 --> 01:29:53.455
personally haven't got gotten anything back.

1396
01:29:54.540 --> 01:29:54.860
But,

1397
01:29:55.660 --> 01:29:55.980
but,

1398
01:29:57.180 --> 01:29:58.560
you've been an advocate,

1399
01:29:59.420 --> 01:30:03.040
one you know, and on our board. And so founding board member.

1400
01:30:03.740 --> 01:30:10.955
So thank you, man. Really means a lot, and I'm honored that you plugged me into it. It's, it it was a perfect fit.

1401
01:30:11.815 --> 01:30:14.395
Well, you know, as a as an American, I think,

1402
01:30:15.575 --> 01:30:21.275
along with a lot of my fellow Americans, we've gotten significant benefit from the work at Bitcoin Policy Institute.

1403
01:30:22.190 --> 01:30:23.330
I mean, I remember

1404
01:30:24.750 --> 01:30:26.130
remember when we were joking,

1405
01:30:26.590 --> 01:30:29.170
this was probably, like, a year ago, maybe a little bit longer,

1406
01:30:29.630 --> 01:30:33.889
that we're gonna make hats that said Bitcoin Policy Institute keeping you out of the gulags.

1407
01:30:35.755 --> 01:30:38.414
It was more real than we ever really considered.

1408
01:30:39.675 --> 01:30:45.054
That's it. That's the synopsis. You know? If you wanna raise a family, you wanna grow a business, you wanna

1409
01:30:46.074 --> 01:30:46.574
see

1410
01:30:46.920 --> 01:30:50.700
America be a strong country and and our communities be

1411
01:30:51.080 --> 01:30:52.940
stronger than they have ever were before,

1412
01:30:54.120 --> 01:30:55.820
you gotta step up to the plate.

1413
01:30:56.200 --> 01:30:59.900
And, Bitcoin Policy Institute will help keep us out of the gulags

1414
01:31:00.840 --> 01:31:01.660
in the process.

1415
01:31:02.945 --> 01:31:03.684
That's right.

1416
01:31:03.985 --> 01:31:04.804
Let's get,

1417
01:31:05.344 --> 01:31:06.405
let's get the samurai.

1418
01:31:07.264 --> 01:31:10.565
You know? Let's get them out here first, and then we Yeah. I'm in.

1419
01:31:11.264 --> 01:31:12.724
We got Ross free.

1420
01:31:13.105 --> 01:31:16.244
We'll free samurai. We'll repeal the Bank Secrecy Act.

1421
01:31:17.389 --> 01:31:18.369
These are just

1422
01:31:18.989 --> 01:31:21.090
some of the goals, that we have.

1423
01:31:21.550 --> 01:31:25.090
I think the sky's the limit. I think we have to keep pushing. I think we need to be optimistic.

1424
01:31:25.550 --> 01:31:26.530
Another piece

1425
01:31:26.830 --> 01:31:30.610
which is relevant for both OpenStads and Bitcoin Policy Institute

1426
01:31:30.965 --> 01:31:32.344
is because we're Bitcoiners,

1427
01:31:34.005 --> 01:31:36.105
we keep a Bitcoin treasury. So

1428
01:31:36.804 --> 01:31:38.505
you can know that if you donate,

1429
01:31:40.244 --> 01:31:43.304
every expense is weighed on the opportunity cost of Bitcoin.

1430
01:31:44.005 --> 01:31:45.224
Unlike most charities,

1431
01:31:46.620 --> 01:31:52.640
your money will will not go frivol frivolously wasted. You know? If if if

1432
01:31:53.100 --> 01:31:57.520
if it doesn't make sense to spend it, we will hold it in Bitcoin for the long term,

1433
01:31:58.060 --> 01:32:01.280
so that we could spend in the future when it is when it is needed.

1434
01:32:02.115 --> 01:32:04.695
So don't worry about waste on that side. I think that's

1435
01:32:05.075 --> 01:32:07.015
also one of the understated benefits

1436
01:32:07.715 --> 01:32:10.935
that people don't realize is that it really does force efficiency

1437
01:32:11.475 --> 01:32:13.895
and and and and responsibility

1438
01:32:14.515 --> 01:32:19.130
in in how in how you spend funds. And that's in the private sector, but that's also,

1439
01:32:20.309 --> 01:32:21.050
with charities.

1440
01:32:22.789 --> 01:32:29.449
Steven, this was a great chat. I I thoroughly enjoyed it. I thought you did great for your second podcast appearance. I actually realized,

1441
01:32:30.695 --> 01:32:33.195
we we also did a radio show together in Nashville,

1442
01:32:33.975 --> 01:32:36.555
which is not quite a podcast, but

1443
01:32:37.015 --> 01:32:37.835
kinda cool.

1444
01:32:38.855 --> 01:32:39.335
That was,

1445
01:32:39.975 --> 01:32:40.875
that was interesting,

1446
01:32:41.895 --> 01:32:43.675
wasn't it? That it was awesome.

1447
01:32:44.160 --> 01:32:44.900
I mean, it's

1448
01:32:45.600 --> 01:32:52.820
it's you know, you can do as many podcasts in the world, but going to an actual radio studio and sitting down with an actual radio host

1449
01:32:53.440 --> 01:32:56.020
is just a completely different vibe. Like, that's not

1450
01:32:56.565 --> 01:32:57.065
a

1451
01:32:58.645 --> 01:33:00.344
Yeah. I'll remember that for a while.

1452
01:33:01.205 --> 01:33:02.905
That happened because I,

1453
01:33:03.765 --> 01:33:06.824
you know, I was I was at home working one day and,

1454
01:33:07.525 --> 01:33:11.280
you know, cooking on something. And my wife calls me, and she's like,

1455
01:33:12.239 --> 01:33:18.099
there's this radio station we, like, off and on will listen to, you know, or she'll have it on in the background.

1456
01:33:18.719 --> 01:33:19.219
And

1457
01:33:19.840 --> 01:33:23.860
and, I didn't actually know she, like, listened to talk radio is the funny thing.

1458
01:33:24.815 --> 01:33:29.955
She's not, like, a talk radio gal, but she was, like, go she was on a talk radio kick,

1459
01:33:30.494 --> 01:33:30.975
and,

1460
01:33:31.455 --> 01:33:33.715
one of the local stations was,

1461
01:33:34.815 --> 01:33:44.580
she called me. She was kinda, like, all amped up. She's like, they're talking about Bitcoin. They're talking about Bitcoin on the radio. But I was like, really? And it was the station that we listened to and,

1462
01:33:45.140 --> 01:33:46.280
at the whatever hour.

1463
01:33:46.980 --> 01:33:57.595
And I was like, what are they saying? She was like, well, they're, like, asking people. They, like, don't know any of it, and they're asking people to to call. And so I was like, that's funny.

1464
01:33:58.295 --> 01:33:59.435
And so I'm like,

1465
01:33:59.975 --> 01:34:06.475
okay. I'll call them. And, like, you know, I kinda feel a little bit of, like, civic responsibility here. It's my radio station.

1466
01:34:06.860 --> 01:34:11.280
So I called to let the producer hey. If you ever really do wanna talk about Bitcoin,

1467
01:34:11.980 --> 01:34:15.119
I know people that could come on. I was thinking of, you know, you,

1468
01:34:16.059 --> 01:34:31.744
you know, others like the, you know, the OG, like, podcast host that could just come on. And and so I call in, and they're like, hello. This is blah blah blah blah blah. And I was like, hey. I was just gonna talk about I wanted to talk to somebody about the Bitcoin thing. And they're like, cool. Give me one second.

1469
01:34:32.045 --> 01:34:41.600
And I was like, alright. So I'm just, like, shooting emails. Like, I just got this thing on speaker phone, and they're like, hey. You're locked on such and such. They just off the radio.

1470
01:34:42.300 --> 01:34:44.640
And I was like, oh, what's up?

1471
01:34:46.220 --> 01:34:46.800
You know,

1472
01:34:47.180 --> 01:34:48.240
like, fifteen minutes

1473
01:34:48.620 --> 01:34:50.000
on this radio show.

1474
01:34:50.700 --> 01:35:05.034
And, I'm like, you know, the guy doesn't know nothing. He's asking all these wild questions. I don't even know how to answer. You know? Like, it is it really orange, or isn't it a little, like, green? I'm like, what are you talking about? You know? Like, just goofy questions.

1475
01:35:05.815 --> 01:35:09.480
And so, anyway, we get all hanging there like, hey.

1476
01:35:09.960 --> 01:35:21.945
If you want, you come in studio sometime, and let's talk. And so we did. I brought I brought Odell, and we had a we had a fun time. Actually, I like that kind of stuff, man. Those radio interviews are fun. You're right. It it's a blast.

1477
01:35:22.585 --> 01:35:23.724
Yeah. That was cool.

1478
01:35:25.465 --> 01:35:28.045
I enjoyed it. We were a good team. We worked well together.

1479
01:35:28.505 --> 01:35:35.165
I gotta I gotta shout out Wood Butcher. Thanks. This is a quote, from Wood Butcher. That's a funny name.

1480
01:35:35.830 --> 01:35:42.410
On here, it says, thanks for all your great work keeping my ass out of the gulag, my number one priority.

1481
01:35:43.430 --> 01:35:43.930
Man.

1482
01:35:44.550 --> 01:35:47.370
There you go. We gotta make we gotta make the hats.

1483
01:35:47.735 --> 01:35:56.795
That's what it's gotta say. Keeping your ass out of the gulag is what it's gotta say. Yeah. There you go. It's a little strong. We could do we could do money signs for the ass part.

1484
01:35:59.735 --> 01:36:04.500
This is great. I'll try and is that radio show on the

1485
01:36:05.760 --> 01:36:09.060
is do we have a link to it? Was it on the Internet too?

1486
01:36:09.920 --> 01:36:10.820
Yeah, dude.

1487
01:36:11.200 --> 01:36:12.340
I'm sure it is.

1488
01:36:14.574 --> 01:36:19.795
If you track it down and send it to me, I'll put it in the show notes because I don't know. It was a fun rip. It was special.

1489
01:36:20.974 --> 01:36:23.074
And I'll put it in the description for people.

1490
01:36:23.855 --> 01:36:24.594
You really,

1491
01:36:26.335 --> 01:36:28.195
you really did did well on it.

1492
01:36:29.650 --> 01:36:30.390
You did well.

1493
01:36:31.250 --> 01:36:32.390
Likewise, sir. Likewise.

1494
01:36:32.850 --> 01:36:36.150
So, anyway, this is a great chat, Freaks. Next week,

1495
01:36:36.770 --> 01:36:37.510
I got,

1496
01:36:38.210 --> 01:36:38.710
VNPRC,

1497
01:36:40.530 --> 01:36:43.510
coming on, and we're gonna talk about hash pools, which is,

1498
01:36:46.415 --> 01:36:55.075
the the concept of using Cashew, using Charming eCash to make mining pools better. That's I'm really excited about this conversation. He's fucking awesome. It'll be a really fun chat.

1499
01:36:55.855 --> 01:36:59.555
And that's gonna be at sixteen thirty UTC, Monday, the twelfth.

1500
01:37:00.850 --> 01:37:10.870
I got another show lined up the week after that. I'm trying to just keep popping them out every week, especially right now that I'm I'm taking a little break from travel, focusing on family,

1501
01:37:11.330 --> 01:37:13.270
like, a little bit settled in over here.

1502
01:37:14.095 --> 01:37:17.475
So I'm gonna try and pump out as many dispatches as possible.

1503
01:37:17.855 --> 01:37:24.515
Thank you for supporting the show. If you donate Bitcoin, it's, means a lot. Keeps me coming in week in and week out.

1504
01:37:25.135 --> 01:37:26.595
Literally, every set matters.

1505
01:37:27.360 --> 01:37:31.540
I I noticed it. Every comment matters. I'm reading all your comments, even the mean ones.

1506
01:37:32.960 --> 01:37:40.580
On that note, I saw earlier that Vague zapped 4,200 stats and said Matt Odell is grumpy. I do read the mean comments as well.

1507
01:37:42.000 --> 01:37:42.480
David

1508
01:37:43.065 --> 01:37:47.565
shout out, man. Listen. Alright. I'm I'm a professional fundraiser. Can I help you out?

1509
01:37:48.025 --> 01:37:48.525
Yeah.

1510
01:37:49.545 --> 01:37:52.765
Somebody drop a bag on this guy. This is this show's incredible.

1511
01:37:53.225 --> 01:37:55.565
He's been running it for, like, thirty years.

1512
01:37:56.440 --> 01:38:00.460
Some, like, some, like, support the show. This is one of

1513
01:38:00.920 --> 01:38:11.420
the badass shows out there. He does it completely free. He doesn't run any ads. He does a fantastic job. He does it every week. I've never done anything that consistent in my life. Like, you know, like, somebody,

1514
01:38:12.094 --> 01:38:12.594
whoever,

1515
01:38:13.135 --> 01:38:14.034
plea support

1516
01:38:14.415 --> 01:38:23.635
Matt. Like, this this show is fucking awesome. And thank you for doing it, Matt. I appreciate it. I've learned so much from this over the years, and it's an honor to be on, man. But I wanted to shill you.

1517
01:38:24.410 --> 01:38:26.110
Thank you, Steven. I appreciate it.

1518
01:38:26.410 --> 01:38:31.790
Great chat. We'll have you on again sometime in the future. Do a catch up maybe in six months, a year.

1519
01:38:32.330 --> 01:38:35.390
Try to make it a little bit more of a regular thing. I think that'd be fun.

1520
01:38:36.250 --> 01:38:40.245
I mean, look what we got done in a year. Imagine where and neck next year, we're gonna be like,

1521
01:38:40.965 --> 01:38:46.505
I don't even know. Can't really comprehend where it would be. Let's just keep the let's keep the momentum up.

1522
01:38:47.205 --> 01:38:52.485
We'll do it, man. We'll do it. Thanks for having me on. Much love, freaks. Btcpolicy.org,

1523
01:38:52.485 --> 01:38:55.989
if you want more information. Btcpolicysummit.org

1524
01:38:55.989 --> 01:38:58.010
if you want to go to the event.

1525
01:38:59.590 --> 01:39:02.170
Steven's on x. It's s pollock

1526
01:39:02.870 --> 01:39:03.690
is his username.

1527
01:39:04.710 --> 01:39:06.489
I you're not on Nostra. Right?

1528
01:39:07.110 --> 01:39:08.890
S pollock b t c

1529
01:39:09.495 --> 01:39:14.475
on x. S pollock b t c. And you're not on Noster yet. Right? I have an account,

1530
01:39:15.335 --> 01:39:15.835
Manon.

1531
01:39:16.534 --> 01:39:26.010
He's gonna use Noster more in the future, but he's not yet. And if you need to email him, he already told you his email address. It's spollock@btcpolicy.org.

1532
01:39:26.010 --> 01:39:31.950
Send him an email. Just say hi. You don't even have to he let apparently, he just likes receiving

1533
01:39:32.730 --> 01:39:33.870
emails. So

1534
01:39:34.410 --> 01:39:36.190
Do not. Just say hi.

1535
01:39:36.730 --> 01:39:39.125
Send them so many emails already.

1536
01:39:39.985 --> 01:39:41.125
Unless you're AM.

1537
01:39:42.144 --> 01:39:42.644
Yeah.

1538
01:39:43.264 --> 01:39:47.605
This is David. Thank you for joining. Love you freaks. Stay on the stack stats. Peace.