Oct. 17, 2022
Bitcoin.Review E7: A Review of Updates to Popular Bitcoin Projects with NVK, Justin Moon, Pierre Rochard, and Stephan Livera
ODELL, NVK, Justin Moon, Pierre Rochard, Stephan Livera
Full Show Notes with Links
TIMESTAMPS:
Software Releases & Project Updates
- 00:03:33 Fully Noded v0.3.4/v0.3.5 - Sep 29, 2022
- 00:05:10 Specter Desktop v1.13.0 - Sep 22, 2022
- 00:07:04 Nunchuk 1.9.14 - Sep 27, 2022
- 00:13:29 Electrum 4.3.2 - Sep 26, 2022
- 00:20:02 Fountain 0.5.1 - Sep 30, 2022
- 00:24:38 Robosats v0.2.1-alpha - Sep 30, 2022
- 00:25:18 COLDCARD 5.0.7 - Oct 05, 2022
- 00:26:53 EmbassyOS v0.3.2 - Oct 05, 2022
- 00:36:12 Blockstream Green QT 1.1.4 - Oct 05, 2022
- 00:38:59 lnd v0.15.2-beta - Oct 10, 2022
- 00:49:19 Samurai v0.99.98f
Noteworthy
- 00:50:42 Jam: a modern interface for JoinMarket
- 00:53:33 BitcoinTreasuries.NET
- 00:55:50 Stratum V2 reference implementation (SRI) available for pilot testing.
- 01:01:23 Pleb creates a 2 of 3 multi-sig, air-gapped Vault with COLDCARD, Ledger & TAPSIGNER using Keeper
- 01:09:12 Peach - P2P Mobile application that connects Bitcoin Buyers & Sellers
- 01:12:27 Celsius Disclosed Names and Transaction History of All Users During Bankruptcy
- 01:25:13 Alby - The Bitcoin Lightning App for your Browser
- 01:31:07 Arrested Tornado Cash developer to stay in jail after appeal rejected
- 01:38:26 Grayscale unveils bitcoin mining-centered investment entity
- 01:38:42 European Union Announces New Sanctions Against Russia Including a "Ban" on All Russian Bitcoin Wallets
- 01:43:07 bitnob launches in Kenya
- 01:44:45 Swan Acquires Specter Solutions
- 01:47:49 Block's Decentralized Exchange Protocol Team 'TBD' Partners with Circle
- 01:48:20 BitGo Unveils Custodial Lightning
- 01:48:52 River Lightning Services
- 01:52:06 Bitcoin mining hosting company Compute North files for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection
Bitcoin Optech Newsletter
- 01:53:56 Bitcoin implementation designed for testing soft forks on signet (#219)
Competitions
- 01:55:14 [Bitcoin Design Community Designathon]
- 01:56:59 [Legends of Lightning]
Events
- 01:58:31 Adopting Bitcoin
- 01:58:39 Africa Bitcoin Conference
- 01:58:49 Unconfiscatable
- 01:59:15 Plan B Lungano
- 01:59:22 Pacific Bitcoin
- 01:59:27 Bitcoin for India
support dispatch: https://citadeldispatch.com/contribute
stream sats to the show: https://www.fountain.fm/
join the chat: https://matrix.to/#/#citadel:bitcoin.kyoto
youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoA72saVAuQ8hYCnBO0Lymw
03:33 - Fully Noded v0.3.4v0.3.5 Sep 29 2022
05:10 - Specter Desktop v1.13.0 Sep 22 2022
07:04 - Nunchuk 1.9.14 Sep 27 2022
13:29 - Electrum 4.3.2 Sep 26 2022
20:02 - Fountain 0.5.1 Sep 30 2022
24:38 - Robosats v0.2.1alpha Sep 30 2022
25:18 - COLDCARD 5.0.7 Oct 05 2022
26:53 - EmbassyOS v0.3.2 Oct 05 2022
36:12 - Blockstream Green QT 1.1.4 Oct 05 2022
38:59 - lnd v0.15.2beta Oct 10 2022
49:19 - Samurai v0.99.98f Noteworthy
50:42 - Jam a modern interface for JoinMarket
53:33 - BitcoinTreasuries.NET
55:50 - Stratum V2 reference implementation SRI available for pilot testing.
01:01:23 - Pleb creates a 2 of 3 multisig airgapped Vault with COLDCARD Ledger amp TAPSIGNER using
01:09:12 - Peach P2P Mobile application that connects Bitcoin Buyers amp Sellers
01:12:27 - Celsius Disclosed Names and Transaction History of All Users During Bankruptcy
01:25:13 - Alby The Bitcoin Lightning App for your Browser
01:31:07 - Arrested Tornado Cash developer to stay in jail after appeal rejected
01:38:26 - Grayscale unveils bitcoin miningcentered investment entity
01:38:42 - European Union Announces New Sanctions Against Russia Including a Ban on All Russian Bitcoin
01:43:07 - bitnob launches in Kenya
01:44:45 - Swan Acquires Specter Solutions
01:47:49 - Blocks Decentralized Exchange Protocol Team TBD Partners with Circle
01:48:20 - BitGo Unveils Custodial Lightning
01:48:52 - River Lightning Services
01:52:06 - Bitcoin mining hosting company Compute North files for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection Bitcoin
01:53:56 - Bitcoin implementation designed for testing soft forks on signet 219 Competitions
01:55:14 - Bitcoin Design Community Designathon
01:56:59 - Legends of Lightning Events
01:58:31 - Adopting Bitcoin
01:58:39 - Africa Bitcoin Conference
01:58:49 - Unconfiscatable
01:59:15 - Plan B Lungano
01:59:22 - Pacific Bitcoin
01:59:27 - Bitcoin for India support dispatch httpscitadeldispatch.comcontribute stream sats to the
WEBVTT
NOTE
Transcription provided by Podhome.fm
Created: 3/17/2024 4:22:35 PM
Duration: 7612.735
Channels: 1
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Hello, and welcome to the Bitcoin review podcast.
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The podcast where we fail at boringly reading the latest release notes and discuss project updates.
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We are back with the list,
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and,
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I have a I have a big crew here today.
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We have, Pierre Richard. Hi, Pierre.
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Hello. Thanks for having me on. We have Justin Moon. Hi, Justin.
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Hello.
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We have, Stefan Rivera, which is, he's a newcomer to the list.
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Hey. Thanks for inviting me, Enrique.
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And we have the over extended podcast,
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master
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who's a great guest of the show, Matt Adel.
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Yo.
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Nice to have you guys. Thanks thanks for coming.
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And I was just saying, I I broke the website just before this,
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so, I'm fixing it,
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and,
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I guess everybody got the show notes. I hope it's in this wonderful
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Google docs today.
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So yeah, we have
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a very, very full list today, and
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I just wanted to get a couple of coin kite house kippings here out of the way.
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Black Friday is coming.
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This is a message for,
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product and service makers.
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If you have a product or service that you want to advertise for Black Friday with some sale, just, ping the the folks in our team. It's a bitcoin
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Friday
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no. Bitcoinblackfriday.org.
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We're also looking for,
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other topics
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for the the panel version of this podcast like we did with the wallets.
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And,
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oh, and this one is just a quick note. The Bitcoin binary dotorg bot is not working well. So if you love creating shell scripts for GitHub actions,
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do hit me,
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because I do need help with that and I don't have time to deal with GitHub actions.
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So, we are looking for some help there. Anyways,
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so,
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I figure we we just kinda go straight into the list
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since
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since we didn't start a good batter today.
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For a little context, since Enrique just jumped right into
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showing his
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projects,
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I believe me and Stefan are at have been at the Amsterdam conference for the last 2 days,
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and I believe Justin is at TabConf right now. That's correct. Pierre, which conference are you at?
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No conference.
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Just doing a Bitcoin 101 with,
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different folks.
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Look at that. Confidential.
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Productive people don't go to conferences.
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Here's a Twitter con every day. That's right. You know, for the people who are,
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were not here before I started pressing record,
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there are no
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cyber hornets.
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Pierre is all the accounts on Twitter. He literally runs Twitter.
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It's just it's all sock puppets. Yeah. There's there's no plebs. There's no cyber hornets.
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Anyone who's synonymous, you just probably safe to assume it's my account.
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All the nims are Pierre.
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He's just sibling all of us. We never knew.
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It's working. It is quite amazing.
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Alright, guys.
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Let's start with the software releases
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and project updates.
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Fully noted, version
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0.3.4,
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and I guess the other and also we missed in the in between the the shows 0.3.5.
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Total balance view no longer refreshes
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when navigating back.
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Join market connect QR, that's nice.
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Add a join market placeholders
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to the SSL certs,
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and enhancement
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in older versions, multisig NFC imports not offered if a micro SD card was
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really there, I think.
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For 0.35,
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much improved UX
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around exporting,
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and,
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fixes,
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fixes a bug where LND would only show fees collected from the last 100HL
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t l
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HTLC
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events.
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Do you guys use, fully noted everyday for everything?
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I'm an Android man, so, unfortunately, no. I have not had the chance.
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I just checked. I have it installed on my phone, but, I have not been using it. I need to and now I'm poking around on it. It's changed a lot since when I installed it.
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Big upgrades.
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Great.
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Are you still alive, Matt? Fontaine is awesome. The the lead maintainer, fully noted.
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I met him in Miami this year. Yeah. Fontaine is great.
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He was one of the first persons to, work with, NFC on,
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Bitcoin NFC on the apps, with codecard.
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Okay. So Spectre
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desktop
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version 1.13
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feature so improve
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dev console, menu extensions can extend to menus now,
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adding open Bitcoin app verbiage to ledger, upload keys,
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better balance display,
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do not hide elements by default,
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individual hard,
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HWI progress for ledger devices.
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That reminds me of how with Ledger, you have to actually click in, like, I mean, I guess most people who've if you've used a lot of the hardware wallets, it's a bit of a pain that you have to actually click into the, quote, unquote, Bitcoin app when you're using those ledger
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devices. It can be a bit confusing for new users or if you're not familiar.
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But I know Salvatore Ingala is trying to, you know, improve the Bitcoin situation there over at Ledger and make things like better multi sig support and things like this. There was some interesting commentary from him, today about registering the multi sig quorum and things like that. Oh, I saw his BIP. Oh, yeah? Yeah. He he definitely he wants to improve,
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the the descriptors in,
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imports and all that stuff. I mean, I I think it's impossible for them to really
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like, you buy a ledger because you wanna hold 1 of the 1,000 shit coins they support. Oh, a 100%. Like, if you're not Yeah. If you don't just go Bitcoin only, you just can't you'll never solve that UX hurdle of of needing to, you know, click into the Bitcoin section.
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Well,
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yeah.
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I mean, you can still use Ledger, I guess, like, with with, like, other clients. Right?
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But, but if you're using Ledger,
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it's essentially
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it's like a a one button of Shaquen Casino.
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It's it's like, it just downloads, like, click here, buy Bitcoin. You know? Like,
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but, you know, like, that that's what the market wants. Right?
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And, you know, it's okay.
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Okay.
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Nunchuk,
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1.9.14.
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They added, cold card NFC support,
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which they have subsequently sort of improved a bit,
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replaced by fee, ported to mobile, it was only on the desktop wallet.
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BIP21
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and CRUX QR support,
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new quick send shortcut,
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signing using air gap keys in colab wallets is now possible,
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copy to clipboard for addresses
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and txids,
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and, preferences
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of perf improvements.
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Yeah. So just a quick comment here. I haven't used the latest latest version of Nunchuk, but I have played around with TapSigner and Nunchuk, and I found it just a really great experience.
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I was even showing it to some of my friends in Bitcoin Dubai, just, you know, some of the the Maxi crew in Dubai, and I was showing them. They're they're pretty happy with the whole UX of NFC and TapCiner and Nunchuk. And, you know, I think it's really cool what they're doing. So, you know, it is a slightly different approach to what we've seen with the typical Electrum, Sparrow, Spectre style of multisig. So let's see, if that becomes more prominent.
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What I think is really, really cool,
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there used to be this wallet. I think I mentioned this before here, but it it was one of my favorite phone wallets was called Copay until,
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until a BitPay bought them and destroyed them.
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It was still a JavaScript wallet. It still had, like, a lot of sort of issues around, like, too many inputs. Pod copay? Yep. They, acqui hired them.
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I actually thought it was a bit pay project.
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No. No. No. I thought they brewed it in the beginning. No. It was, it was from before them. I actually saw someone
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We were,
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I was hanging out with a bunch of Bitcoiners, like, 4 months ago,
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and,
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we stumbled on a on a no corner
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that wanted to download her first wallet.
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And he told her to download co pay, and I was like, what the fuck?
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I don't even think he exists anymore with that name. It still exists. Oh, really? I think it was Eric Marchandale who started that wallet and then got he got hired acquired by It was way ahead of its time. Pay yes.
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Yeah. What was it? 2014? And they had, like, easy multisig in a in a smartphone? Like, that's crazy early. It was fantastic.
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No hardware wallet support at the time, of course,
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but but it was very good.
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Anyway, so what I what I like is, Hugo, which is the main maintainer and the founder of,
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Nunchuk,
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is taking the approach of
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collaborative multisig
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between,
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like, actual humans and parties, not, like, as a company kind of thing. It's so it's not like cousin and chain kind of thing. It's more like, hey, I wanna have a wallet between say Justin, me, and and Matt. Right?
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So one is there is encrypted comms,
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either using email or, my my request to him, which like, by the way, every single request I had for him for the last, like, year and a half now probably, that he incorporated within, like, 2 weeks. Like, it's amazing. I go on the DM. So, you know, like, I kinda need these features, like, boom, appears.
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Those guys are absolute beasts.
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So so anyway, so
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you can have a non email set up so you're not doxxing yourself. Mind you, you know, it's still, like, you know, they do use store,
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by default, I think.
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But but, you know, you're still trusting servers. You're still trusting, like, there's a level of trust with this. Just wanna put that caveat out there. But anyways, so you can actually start, you can create a new multisig wallet with
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the parties
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being remote.
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So you can you can you can do the quorum
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to consolidate the XPUBs and everything through the app,
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which is phenomenal,
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and then you have encrypted comms using the keys,
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which was also my request,
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so that you don't need to have a password and username or any of that crap,
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and you can sort of like talk to each other, coordinate,
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propose transactions.
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You know, a huge part of money is coordination. Right? So having that is is super cool. Yeah. I mean, it can't be overstated
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how important
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the built
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in comm layer is. Because, like, I've done multisigs with very experienced Bitcoiners and just pasting PSPTs
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and shit
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in matrix or some encrypted chat. Docs.
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It's also the worst UX ever. Yeah. Fucking annoyed. It's like, which part am I like, which one is partially signed by 1 key or 2 keys, and, like, you're it's a pain in the ass. So next, I I really want to, like, have somebody champion it. I definitely don't wanna do the work.
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I wanna have somebody champion a new,
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comms protocol
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for wallets
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so that
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you can have an open sort of comm layer
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that, you know,
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don't know yet, it could be XMPP kind of thing, but, like, point is
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we need some open protocol for wallets to talk to each other because then it's not just within Nunchuck. Right? It would be, say, between Nunchuck
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and Sparrow or whatever. Let's, yeah, let's put Craig. So I was gonna say, let's just put Craig and Hugo on the phone together. Just give them a little 5 minute intro and then just hang the phone and let them figure it out. There you go. So so there is that. And and another cool thing too is,
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Nunchuk
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and us,
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and some guys from the Shift crypto
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did the BSMS.
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So it's essentially like a a a
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you know, it's it's nothing, like, too crazy or too clever, like, but it's just like a way of standardizing
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backup files and setup files for multisig as well.
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So we are getting there, and that's the backup file that you do with Nunchuck.
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So with Nunchuck now you can do comms, you can do the collaboration,
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you can set up the stuff,
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and you can use the harder wallets with NFC,
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with SD card,
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and with USB
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on the desktop version of it.
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It's quite phenomenal. We just gifted them
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a batch of Nunchuk branded tap signers, so that, you know, I want them to sort of like, you know, push
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push that self custody, that kind of easy stuff,
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and I think, I think they're gonna have services soon.
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Anyways, like, fantastic work by those guys. I I really it's nice to see people trying to actually do new things.
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Alright.
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Electrum,
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4.3.2,
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when creating new requests reuse addresses
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of expired requests,
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index requests by ID instead of receiving address,
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trampoline routing,
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fix, sweep to local,
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output from channel backup,
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harden script for
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macOS
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binary, avoid using pre compiled wheels from PyPy,
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and
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the Windows app image Android binaries are now built using Debian.
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So
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I feel like Electrum is going, like, in a terrible wrong direction of UX.
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It it's like driving me nuts.
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You know, like, you you need extra clicks. There's extra buttons in the UI that don't really it's just it takes, like, 3, 4 windows to sign a transaction.
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I don't think LN should exist there,
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which is a shame because it's, like, it's the most sort of, like, OG,
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you know, one of the most OG wallets. I mean, it was the first wallet really,
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like, it was publicly made after Core,
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so it's kinda like annoying to see it go in this UX direction.
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Oh, and there is no more XFP information for wallets that exist, so you can't go and find the XFP
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information to make sure that the wallet is anyways, it's just it's driving me absolutely nuts.
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So if anybody from my lectern is there, I I appreciate the hard work you guys put in, but, you know,
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please,
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you know,
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make the UX simpler, don't get complicated.
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Do you any of you guys still use Electrum?
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I I did try out their their lightning implementation,
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and, yeah, it's
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it's it's a lot to do in in one piece of software to do,
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on chain and lightning. But I also think that I actually do like the idea of it.
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And then when I looked in the core in the code base,
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because it's in Python, I thought, well, maybe it'd be interesting to use their
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their Python
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lightning code as a library,
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and there's there's it's just not possible. It's all very hard coded in there.
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Yeah.
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This is this is the challenge that Electrum always had is that, you know, it started when Bitcoin was
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much
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different. Right? It was even pre BIP 32. So,
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you know, like, it's just a a constantly sort of, like, added on kind of code base.
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It's it's, quite challenging to,
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to read it. Do do you think we're gonna see, like, the emergence of Taproot native wallets? Right? Because you build up so much cruft from having to support past things. And if you wanna do something new, like, I could just imagine there, you know, people just starting from scratch.
255
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There is very few people out there that can build wallets.
256
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There is very few people out there who are willing to build wallets, or we're gonna have fresh new blood. There's gonna be another bull market. There's gonna be lots of new developers coming in.
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I don't know. Like, I I find, like, even while it's like Moon,
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which are made, like, sort of, like, post a lot of things, it's still a Bitcoin sort of semi OG there. Right? Like,
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00:16:42.440 --> 00:16:47.835
there is very few people out there who have the capacity to really build a wallet.
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It's it's surprisingly hard,
261
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but that's what the beauty of BDK, for example. Right? So we can have people who have a much better view of UX,
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a much better sort of, like,
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you know, like, intent in how to handle the transactions and all that stuff. But, you know, the the true hard part
264
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that is very sort of domain specific knowledge as well is done by BDK. So,
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you know, maybe the BDK part 4
266
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Taproot will be sort of
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like very good and or good enough, and and then that would be used as the base to to go forward with it. But it's,
268
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it's surprisingly hard,
269
00:17:29.355 --> 00:17:31.534
and maintaining it is even harder.
270
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And and that's what happens to a lot of wallets. Like, you know, people go and they build it and then, like, sort of, like, keeping up with the changes and keeping up with everything is
271
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it's not,
272
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it's not a photo sharing app
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building on Bitcoin.
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Right. Because as an example, even if the guys wanted to go Taproot only, they've got all these legacy users who they just couldn't like, they can't just say no to them and just leave them in the lurch. And I guess that's, that's part of the problem. Right.
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So we'll see if,
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yeah. Well, Pierre, I think what Pierre was saying was it'd be like a new wallet comes out of the gate that's just like Taproot native.
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I think it'll happen. I I just I'm just skeptical. This is what Taro is. You know? It's just like a Taproot native wallet that does all kinds of crazy stuff and, TapLead stuff. And what Jeremy Rubin is working on now with the Judica, he just announced in Judica VM. It's like an extension of SAPO, which is like a programming environment to make, like, graphs and transactions. Right? Like, this is stuff that uses a bunch of the commitments and the Merkle trees
278
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to express fancy stuff that I don't really understand yet. And so these are, I think, these are two examples of Taproot natively.
279
00:18:39.179 --> 00:18:41.600
Good point. LND is Taproot by default,
280
00:18:42.140 --> 00:18:45.600
but that's Lightning only. Right? Well, I think
281
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the the issue is not getting software
282
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sort of like written is for that software to be
283
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of quality
284
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and of notability
285
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and of enough reviews for people to put real money in it.
286
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That that bar is a very bar a very high bar to be crossed.
287
00:19:04.235 --> 00:19:24.595
You know, I have no doubt that the, you know, like, the Taro stuff is gonna be fantastic, but, like, I it's it's gonna take so long for people to trust it to put, like, real money in it as their Bitcoin wallet, not their Taro wallet. Yeah. Well, it's not really a Bitcoin wallet. That's the thing. There you go. Uses Bitcoin, but it's not a Bitcoin. You're not like, the asset you're storing is not Bitcoin, so it's it's kinda weird in that way.
288
00:19:25.455 --> 00:19:35.549
So so this sort of tried to say it's like, you know, I I kinda feel like I'm sigh sounding like that old grumpy man. You know, like, but the reality is when it comes to real money,
289
00:19:35.850 --> 00:19:38.990
the old grumpy man keep your money safe. Right? Like,
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I actually hope that this just inspires
291
00:19:42.275 --> 00:19:43.735
young people to be
292
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old grumpy man in mentality when they're building and they go build wallets.
293
00:19:48.559 --> 00:19:53.140
We do need that work to be done. It just can't be done as a sort of, like,
294
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you know, like, let's play thing kinda kinda deal.
295
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So, basically, there's a high bar.
296
00:20:00.845 --> 00:20:03.185
It's very high. Yeah. Alright.
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Fountain,
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0 point 5.1,
299
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autoplay queue,
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Apple CarPlay,
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OPML
302
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import,
303
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performance upgrades.
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00:20:17.025 --> 00:20:24.860
So I just wanted to to bring this up. I got a little bit of hate on Fountain because I I I was shitting on podcast 2.0
305
00:20:25.960 --> 00:20:29.820
or whatever they call it, the the value for value thing. A person literally
306
00:20:30.280 --> 00:20:32.095
tipped me and said
307
00:20:32.635 --> 00:20:38.415
that it feels weird to be tipping somebody who hates on that tip. I totally appreciate that.
308
00:20:38.850 --> 00:20:42.230
I think people get it wrong. It's just that, like, I absolutely
309
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love that.
310
00:20:43.730 --> 00:20:45.270
I just fail to see
311
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how that
312
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sort of scales because, you know, there's a reason why advertising model works is because, you know, users hate paying for things, but it doesn't mean I don't like it or I don't love it or I don't hope it doesn't happen.
313
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So anyway, so to that,
314
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to that listener who who did comment there, I did read it and and I do empathize with your comment. I just it's just complicated.
315
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But it is fun to to be there, and as I said this before, I absolutely love when people, like, send me a tip and and sort of say something. It it means more than just a comment.
316
00:21:18.990 --> 00:21:32.925
But do you really think we're we have the advertising model because users don't pay things, or is it because Absolutely. I'm with NVK here. We've never had this capability before. Like, we've never had the ability for an audience to directly fund
317
00:21:33.400 --> 00:21:37.900
the content they listen to without a number. But, Matt, think think just the math of this. Right?
318
00:21:38.360 --> 00:21:41.580
Let's say you have Joe Rogan's audience.
319
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Okay, so 11,000,000
320
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downloads
321
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on a single episode or something like that. Right?
322
00:21:48.485 --> 00:21:48.985
So
323
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let's say
324
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each person is giving 10 SATs.
325
00:21:54.340 --> 00:21:54.840
Right?
326
00:21:55.780 --> 00:21:56.280
So
327
00:21:56.740 --> 00:21:59.225
that's still very little money. You
328
00:22:01.125 --> 00:22:04.745
know, can somebody do the math quickly there on 10 sets times,
329
00:22:05.365 --> 00:22:05.865
11,000,000
330
00:22:06.245 --> 00:22:06.745
times,
331
00:22:07.205 --> 00:22:08.585
the current Bitcoin price?
332
00:22:09.029 --> 00:22:11.770
But that's not how it works out. What how it works out is
333
00:22:12.309 --> 00:22:12.809
is
334
00:22:13.750 --> 00:22:20.385
very few people get money, but the ones that do give large amounts of money. But they don't? I think it's yet to be seen.
335
00:22:20.845 --> 00:22:24.705
I hope it happens. The ad model is convenient, especially within the
336
00:22:25.399 --> 00:22:28.539
confines, like the constraints of the legacy system.
337
00:22:29.399 --> 00:22:32.220
The ad model is very profitable and very convenient.
338
00:22:32.835 --> 00:22:48.350
I I think people might be able to make more money, you know, going with a value for value model. It just hasn't been proven out yet. Sam Harris is pretty successful, and he's within the constraints of the traditional system. So I just ran the numbers, by the way. It's about so as an example,
339
00:22:49.485 --> 00:22:51.985
correct me if I got it wrong, but it looks like it's about a 110,000,000
340
00:22:52.365 --> 00:22:54.865
sats, which at today's prices is about 21,288
341
00:22:56.045 --> 00:22:56.545
USD,
342
00:22:57.059 --> 00:23:06.840
which is far less than what Joe Rogan would be charging for on ads. And you can only have, like, 10 pods that big. Right? Like, actually, there's just one as the market has proven.
343
00:23:07.365 --> 00:23:09.145
I feel like we can find
344
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like a much more interesting sort of middle ground there somewhere,
345
00:23:13.284 --> 00:23:15.065
right, where you have,
346
00:23:15.929 --> 00:23:16.669
say, resyndication
347
00:23:17.289 --> 00:23:23.149
for a buck. Right? So people create curated lists and they get paid for having those curated lists and they share that
348
00:23:23.845 --> 00:23:28.105
that with with the makers of the pods or, you know, the the advertising
349
00:23:29.044 --> 00:23:33.465
sort of placement could be much better and better sort of rerouted and better
350
00:23:34.390 --> 00:23:38.570
syndicated with lightning. Right? So that you have, like, better distribution of capital.
351
00:23:38.950 --> 00:23:47.205
There's, like, a lot of, like, other more complicated cool stuff that essentially, like, all the ad advertising markets on social media. Right? Could all be redone
352
00:23:47.904 --> 00:23:51.044
much better because there's no friction or cost on those transactions.
353
00:23:51.920 --> 00:23:58.900
It's just I feel like the the value for value is very similar to open source. Everybody uses the stuff but ends up never paying for it.
354
00:23:59.360 --> 00:24:00.180
So, like,
355
00:24:01.225 --> 00:24:06.925
I don't know. It's just challenging. I I think there will be a niche. I think some people will make money. Like, say,
356
00:24:07.225 --> 00:24:08.125
what's the name?
357
00:24:09.660 --> 00:24:10.560
The part 2.0?
358
00:24:11.900 --> 00:24:18.640
Adam Curry. Adam Curry. So Adam Curry does make a, you know, a proper living out of this stuff,
359
00:24:19.005 --> 00:24:21.425
but I think it's it's not gonna be, like,
360
00:24:22.605 --> 00:24:23.505
as wide
361
00:24:24.125 --> 00:24:26.065
as as people hope.
362
00:24:26.970 --> 00:24:29.630
But let's hope so. Let's hope it works.
363
00:24:31.370 --> 00:24:34.590
Please keep the tips coming. I do enjoy those sats. Okay?
364
00:24:38.325 --> 00:24:39.705
All right, so, Robosats,
365
00:24:41.045 --> 00:24:41.545
0.2.1,
366
00:24:43.540 --> 00:24:46.920
Dispatch includes the new book table component.
367
00:24:47.940 --> 00:24:51.400
This is the first alpha release with Android APK.
368
00:24:52.635 --> 00:24:53.435
Do you guys,
369
00:24:53.915 --> 00:24:54.895
use, Robosats?
370
00:24:57.515 --> 00:24:58.335
Matt does.
371
00:25:00.395 --> 00:25:03.200
Robosats is fucking awesome. I actually met,
372
00:25:04.460 --> 00:25:16.405
I met someone here in Amsterdam who just translated all their documentation to Chinese. Amazing. And he's looking for another Chinese speaking individual to proofread it. So if you're out there, hit me up. There you go.
373
00:25:17.640 --> 00:25:22.060
Alright. I feel like we've kinda glanced over this in the last episode. Code card 5.0.7.
374
00:25:23.240 --> 00:25:24.860
I won't go through all the things,
375
00:25:25.915 --> 00:25:33.835
but that is the official release. Matt's last because you put your own update in 2 episodes in a row. Of course. Somebody has to pay for all this,
376
00:25:34.315 --> 00:25:35.215
all this production.
377
00:25:37.900 --> 00:25:39.520
So it's actually more stuff added.
378
00:25:40.220 --> 00:25:42.800
NFC enhancements, multi sig NFC import,
379
00:25:43.295 --> 00:25:45.555
NFC messaging, message signing,
380
00:25:46.575 --> 00:25:48.035
show address over NFC,
381
00:25:49.135 --> 00:25:49.635
and
382
00:25:50.950 --> 00:25:51.450
NFC
383
00:25:51.909 --> 00:25:55.049
message signing was important because Nunchuk needed to do
384
00:25:55.669 --> 00:25:56.409
health checks,
385
00:25:57.965 --> 00:26:01.184
so so that was recent, but it's gonna be on Nunchuck next release.
386
00:26:02.445 --> 00:26:03.825
The HSM enhancements,
387
00:26:04.429 --> 00:26:05.389
dynamic HSM,
388
00:26:05.710 --> 00:26:07.490
white listening, HSM policy
389
00:26:07.950 --> 00:26:09.889
hash display during first activation,
390
00:26:10.750 --> 00:26:13.730
ignores HSM commands over USB by default now.
391
00:26:14.735 --> 00:26:17.155
We're gonna probably remove the whole HSM stack,
392
00:26:17.855 --> 00:26:19.315
from main release
393
00:26:20.415 --> 00:26:27.710
unless people want it then they would just sort of activate it or have separate firmware, I don't know yet. Enhancements menu wrapping,
394
00:26:28.170 --> 00:26:31.310
this was a big one for me. Allow import of descriptors,
395
00:26:31.785 --> 00:26:35.485
A descriptor type specifies both internal external in a single string.
396
00:26:36.585 --> 00:26:39.965
Our ability to specify address format in the text file
397
00:26:40.549 --> 00:26:41.610
to be signed.
398
00:26:42.230 --> 00:26:44.809
If you guys have any questions, I'm happy to answer,
399
00:26:45.990 --> 00:26:48.570
otherwise I'll probably move to the next.
400
00:26:51.365 --> 00:26:51.865
Okay.
401
00:26:52.325 --> 00:26:53.545
So Embassy
402
00:26:54.405 --> 00:26:56.105
OS version 0.3.2,
403
00:26:58.160 --> 00:26:59.540
auto scrolling for logs,
404
00:27:00.400 --> 00:27:03.220
improved connect connectivity between browser and embassy,
405
00:27:03.920 --> 00:27:04.900
switch to postgres,
406
00:27:05.600 --> 00:27:06.900
for EOS database,
407
00:27:08.435 --> 00:27:09.655
multiple bug fixes,
408
00:27:11.315 --> 00:27:11.815
virus
409
00:27:12.435 --> 00:27:14.695
UI UX enhancements, removal of
410
00:27:15.770 --> 00:27:16.590
product keys.
411
00:27:18.170 --> 00:27:21.230
Anybody using Embassy OS right now? It's start 9. Right?
412
00:27:22.225 --> 00:27:23.125
There was way
413
00:27:25.825 --> 00:27:31.605
more, there was way more in the change log than you than the release notes than you read.
414
00:27:32.160 --> 00:27:48.645
Wow. These are the highlights that they put on. That's the deal. I was, like, getting excited. I thought you're gonna read the whole fucking thing. No. We by the way, we do the same to our products too. Cold card, we only put the the the summary. We we do not go through the whole list. It's too much. It was a massive update. Supposedly,
415
00:27:50.370 --> 00:27:59.590
they did a lot of work, behind the scenes on that one. Yeah. So so what I have here is essentially the summary, which is the 6 items, and then there is, like,
416
00:28:00.515 --> 00:28:01.575
which they wrote,
417
00:28:02.115 --> 00:28:09.720
the highlights, and then there is a what's changed, which is, like, a 1000000 issues. So, like, in practical terms, what I heard from them, because I saw,
418
00:28:10.820 --> 00:28:13.400
I saw their lead dev, 2 weeks ago,
419
00:28:14.500 --> 00:28:22.235
is that it it is a massive performance improvement and reliability improvement for, nodes that are running on Raspberry Pis.
420
00:28:22.669 --> 00:28:35.435
But what's also really interesting about star 9 star 9 is one of these node projects. Right? So, like, you can run a bunch of self hosted things on them Is they're about to release a in partnership with Purism, which is, like, a well known
421
00:28:35.975 --> 00:28:38.155
privacy security hardware manufacturer,
422
00:28:38.809 --> 00:28:40.909
like a top a top tier
423
00:28:41.769 --> 00:28:42.830
notice, like, $1900.
424
00:28:43.529 --> 00:28:44.909
It runs an Intel chip.
425
00:28:45.289 --> 00:28:49.365
So that's interesting. It's the first it's the first, you know, Bitcoin focused one
426
00:28:49.745 --> 00:28:51.285
to kinda go into that premier
427
00:28:51.745 --> 00:28:52.885
that premier step.
428
00:28:53.905 --> 00:29:04.480
Nice to see. Because I know you hate pies, so that's why I Yeah. No. Fuck raspberry pies. I mean, it it all like nothing that has pie in the name, which is high carb, high fiat,
429
00:29:05.305 --> 00:29:06.525
should be used for Bitcoin.
430
00:29:07.625 --> 00:29:21.825
Yeah. So I did a recent episode with Matt Hill. So we spoke a little bit about some of this stuff. Actually, it came up in response to my other episode with Catan, where we were kind of aware Catan was also sharing your sentiment about raspberry pies. So, yeah, we spoke they spoke a bit about that.
431
00:29:22.285 --> 00:29:51.840
It sounds like the idea is obviously not just Bitcoin, but the idea is to sort of how much could you replace by fussing someone's stuff. Right? Whether that's a business or a community, could you replace things with the likes of next cloud or matter most instead of slack or these kinds of things, and then sort of make that case that the business can save money by going fast and using the embassy device instead. So there's a bit of a play there. It's interesting to see what way they go. Also, they took away since the product key. So,
432
00:29:52.855 --> 00:30:13.375
I can't remember the detail of that, but I I recall also, Odell, you had a Citadel dispatch where there was a big debate about, okay, how much fuss should the node projects be? And, you know, on one side, you've got RASP by blitz and Ronan Dojo who are like full force. Then you've got the people who are somewhere in the middle, like, start 9 and my node. And then over on the other end, you've got, like, the umbrells of the world. Right?
433
00:30:14.075 --> 00:30:15.375
Their source viewable,
434
00:30:16.154 --> 00:30:17.054
start 9.
435
00:30:17.514 --> 00:30:18.815
You can build it yourself.
436
00:30:19.429 --> 00:30:23.370
You can verify it, but you can't monetize it. So similar similar,
437
00:30:24.149 --> 00:30:25.370
license to NVK,
438
00:30:26.149 --> 00:30:29.049
not the exact license. I've been talking to a lot of founders,
439
00:30:30.135 --> 00:30:35.595
and, I think the problem is there's a huge chunk of devs out there that are terrified
440
00:30:36.295 --> 00:30:37.995
of the FOSS people,
441
00:30:39.460 --> 00:30:41.560
and also there's a lot of false people
442
00:30:41.940 --> 00:30:43.640
who are just absolutely,
443
00:30:44.100 --> 00:30:48.975
like, disheartened with that lack of cold review and sort of like
444
00:30:49.275 --> 00:30:53.615
the the status of FOSS, and I think a lot of this can be attributed to
445
00:30:54.360 --> 00:30:55.020
so like
446
00:30:55.480 --> 00:30:56.060
the the existing,
447
00:30:57.000 --> 00:30:57.500
FOSS
448
00:30:58.120 --> 00:30:58.620
sentiment
449
00:30:59.000 --> 00:31:02.940
and and sort of attitude, especially by the people who don't write code.
450
00:31:05.135 --> 00:31:09.235
Actually, the majority of the false zealotry comes from people that don't write code.
451
00:31:09.695 --> 00:31:14.190
You know, this is not a new debate. This is not a, this is not gonna end debate.
452
00:31:15.049 --> 00:31:23.615
Maybe that's what the next episode panel should be. I should get a lawyer, a few people from from different walks of life that are, like, in the false spectrum
453
00:31:24.075 --> 00:31:31.470
that are interested in talking about this a bit more honestly. Or you should just get a bunch of maintainers of MIT licensed projects and tell them that they don't code.
454
00:31:33.370 --> 00:31:34.910
But that's not what I said.
455
00:31:36.105 --> 00:31:39.325
Yeah. Anyways, I I feel like there's a lot of people out there
456
00:31:39.945 --> 00:31:45.325
that are scared shitless of talking about the stuff publicly, which is the biggest challenge. Right? That's definitely true.
457
00:31:46.490 --> 00:31:51.630
And, it it's just nice to see some projects with with some balls that that do what they wanna do.
458
00:31:52.169 --> 00:32:02.235
I pulled up the I pulled up that Embassy Pro that we were talking about. I guess, a fucking powerhouse. 32 gigs of RAM. It's got a brand new I 7 in it.
459
00:32:02.679 --> 00:32:03.500
2 terabytes
460
00:32:03.880 --> 00:32:04.380
SSD.
461
00:32:05.799 --> 00:32:17.705
Like, they're going for the like, a proper self hosted machine. Nice. And you can build it yourself with desktop. But And because it cannot be re commercialized, it's not gonna be Amazon and Google who are gonna make the money over their effort.
462
00:32:19.620 --> 00:32:25.480
You know, that's ultimately who makes the money from all the fuss. It's Google, Amazon, Microsoft.
463
00:32:26.395 --> 00:32:26.895
Anyways,
464
00:32:27.274 --> 00:32:29.054
so yeah, I met Matt,
465
00:32:29.355 --> 00:32:38.050
a solid dude, really wants to make this happen, like he he is, he's a person who who who really wants
466
00:32:38.990 --> 00:32:44.155
to to change the way this, these kinds of product category are done, which is
467
00:32:44.535 --> 00:32:45.755
also nice to see.
468
00:32:46.215 --> 00:32:56.260
Yeah. Jokes aside, I mean, you should definitely have Matt on. I feel like you 2 would vibe really. It'd be really I've met him, and we we chatted. I I didn't chat as much as I'd like to. No. But I mean recorded.
469
00:32:56.794 --> 00:32:59.294
Oh, you mean recorded. Oh, I see. Yes.
470
00:32:59.835 --> 00:33:05.054
I I feel like if I'm if I'm recording this, one, I should be a 100% sober, and 2,
471
00:33:05.590 --> 00:33:06.230
I should,
472
00:33:06.630 --> 00:33:07.590
I should have,
473
00:33:07.990 --> 00:33:10.730
probably somebody in the middle there just to
474
00:33:11.590 --> 00:33:13.450
to moderate and tame
475
00:33:13.845 --> 00:33:17.145
some views and commentary. You can have guest Matt or Do.
476
00:33:18.165 --> 00:33:21.065
Right. I don't know. Matt Matt can be a a zealot.
477
00:33:22.130 --> 00:33:23.910
I was very fair on the round table.
478
00:33:24.610 --> 00:33:28.550
The node 1 we were talking about, and Matt was on that too. Yeah. That's true.
479
00:33:29.010 --> 00:33:31.590
And you know what's funny? Right? What was his name?
480
00:33:32.595 --> 00:33:33.495
Future Paul.
481
00:33:34.195 --> 00:33:42.020
Future Paul. Real zealot. Yeah. I know. But what's funny because he was making fun that, that I took the like, some of the text
482
00:33:43.300 --> 00:33:44.280
from, from Bitcoin
483
00:33:44.580 --> 00:33:45.080
Bitcoin
484
00:33:45.460 --> 00:33:45.960
bounties.
485
00:33:46.980 --> 00:33:49.960
But but at the Yeah. You didn't you didn't
486
00:33:51.274 --> 00:33:52.654
you didn't give Yeah.
487
00:33:52.955 --> 00:33:59.855
No. I did attribute. But, anyways, he he did but what was funny is he actually took my code from something else, and he didn't even know.
488
00:34:03.500 --> 00:34:05.840
And then, anyways, we were laughing about that.
489
00:34:06.140 --> 00:34:19.359
But, yeah, I mean, it's not easy, and it's it's gonna be a very, very tricky dynamic forever on that. To me, the most important thing to Bitcoiners is that the security needs to be done in public.
490
00:34:20.059 --> 00:34:21.839
Everything needs to be verifiable.
491
00:34:22.779 --> 00:34:23.839
How people choose
492
00:34:24.225 --> 00:34:27.365
to monetize, don't monetize, give, don't give, that's their problem.
493
00:34:27.905 --> 00:34:28.965
That is my view.
494
00:34:29.425 --> 00:34:34.890
Let me make one comment about start 9. It's it's, like, of of all the node implementations, I think they've gone,
495
00:34:35.750 --> 00:34:39.615
you know, they they built, like, a actual operating system kind of in Rust,
496
00:34:40.255 --> 00:34:42.435
that does a good job of modeling
497
00:34:43.295 --> 00:34:56.160
the state of the machine. So if you're if you're gonna write a new package, like, we're gonna write a Fedimint package at some point So you can spin up this, federated private bank and be, you know, from your Raspberry Pi. And so one of the cool things is it can, like, kick off of the it Moon shitcoin.
498
00:34:57.955 --> 00:34:59.655
No comment on that. So,
499
00:35:01.155 --> 00:35:24.174
you you can fire up flows and it'll kinda kinda understand what is the state of your Bitcoin node. What is the state of your Lightning node? Like, what what configuration needs to happen? So I think this start 9 has, like, a really solid foundation for building, like, future protocols on top of Bitcoin and Lightning where, versus some of the other ones. They're also really you know, they they branch out outside of Bitcoin as well. They have, like, photo viewers, chat servers. Like, they
500
00:35:24.800 --> 00:35:25.300
they're
501
00:35:25.600 --> 00:35:28.420
they're trying to do a lot more than the other ones, I think.
502
00:35:28.880 --> 00:35:32.980
And which is a downside too, you know. Like, do I do you want your photos? You want a bunch of photos,
503
00:35:33.414 --> 00:35:39.914
you know, swimming around your lightning channel private key file? You know? That's kinda that's kinda scary.
504
00:35:40.990 --> 00:35:42.030
Yeah. No. It it's,
505
00:35:43.230 --> 00:35:45.230
yeah. We were talking to them about,
506
00:35:46.430 --> 00:35:50.325
we're gonna if we do do that code node thing we wanna do,
507
00:35:50.625 --> 00:35:56.244
we would have to create a package that creates, essentially a delta of, Bitcoin course DB
508
00:35:56.980 --> 00:35:59.880
so that you can you can then air gap move that around.
509
00:36:00.500 --> 00:36:04.440
So we would need some of these node projects to sort of be the the high availability
510
00:36:05.445 --> 00:36:07.625
latest copy of the chain available,
511
00:36:08.645 --> 00:36:10.105
so looking forward to that.
512
00:36:10.965 --> 00:36:11.465
Alright.
513
00:36:12.700 --> 00:36:14.079
Block stream green,
514
00:36:14.460 --> 00:36:15.680
QT 1.1.4,
515
00:36:17.339 --> 00:36:18.480
support for incremental,
516
00:36:19.339 --> 00:36:20.480
Jade firmware update,
517
00:36:21.645 --> 00:36:22.625
enable request,
518
00:36:23.245 --> 00:36:25.025
2 factor reset for liquid.
519
00:36:26.685 --> 00:36:28.625
After nunchuck, I don't really use
520
00:36:29.610 --> 00:36:33.790
green too much. It is a it is a, like, a nice UX wallet.
521
00:36:34.330 --> 00:36:36.910
They did start supporting sort of like standard
522
00:36:37.290 --> 00:36:39.825
sig things, so it's kinda nice.
523
00:36:40.605 --> 00:36:42.065
Do any of you guys use,
524
00:36:42.444 --> 00:36:43.425
green right now?
525
00:36:43.964 --> 00:36:52.530
Nope. I think it it's, like, it's a great way for you to to have a liquid support, right, which is, like, not very broad install base.
526
00:36:53.630 --> 00:36:57.615
So it's, it's nice to see. I feel like the only wallet that has less users,
527
00:36:58.395 --> 00:37:02.270
than co pay is green wallet. I I think it's sort of like it's kind of
528
00:37:03.150 --> 00:37:10.850
you used to have a lot of users back before Blockstream bought them. Used to be called, pre address. Address. Yes. And it was actually
529
00:37:11.755 --> 00:37:15.055
based on the idea of you having a pre vetted UTXO.
530
00:37:15.755 --> 00:37:19.855
No. It wasn't a pre vetted UTXO. It was more novel than that. It was a multisig
531
00:37:20.640 --> 00:37:35.494
where they controlled one key. Right. And then they had a deal with the merchant where the merchant would trust that they wouldn't charge them back. So if you paid from green green address, the merchant could do a zero confirmation transaction because they trust the green address wasn't gonna double spend. And it's Lawrence,
532
00:37:35.875 --> 00:37:36.694
who the maintainer
533
00:37:37.155 --> 00:37:40.099
is and was. A cool idea. Yeah. No. No. Well,
534
00:37:40.480 --> 00:37:43.940
the problem is when he came out to green address, there was also
535
00:37:44.559 --> 00:37:49.565
some talks on the mailing list about green addresses being like state sanctioned addresses,
536
00:37:50.185 --> 00:38:00.900
so in murky the water a little bit of the concept and the name, that sort of sent back the project a lot. Yeah. I mean, it even muddied it in your brain. You were like Yes. Prove that Clearly. Exact yeah.
537
00:38:01.200 --> 00:38:01.700
Clearly.
538
00:38:03.255 --> 00:38:03.755
Right.
539
00:38:04.135 --> 00:38:11.835
Next here. Sorry. I was trying to buy some domains. But even if you're using liquid, wouldn't you use, like, a lot of they have another wallet now. They have, like, Aqua.
540
00:38:12.520 --> 00:38:13.980
Yeah. Aqua is green.
541
00:38:14.280 --> 00:38:15.900
It almost goes back to Pierre's,
542
00:38:16.600 --> 00:38:20.700
earlier comment where I it just almost feels like there's so much debt on
543
00:38:22.105 --> 00:38:27.244
like, tech debt on on green wallet. Yeah. But I think Aqua is kind of gonna be It's green.
544
00:38:27.545 --> 00:38:40.300
Yeah. But Aqua is actually gonna, you know, how Samsung now left Blockstream to go to start Jan 3, and I think Aqua is eventually gonna be relaunched as part of Jan 3. So Oh. There I think there will be some separation there eventually.
545
00:38:40.755 --> 00:38:42.135
And Aqua's Jan 3.
546
00:38:42.835 --> 00:38:43.335
So,
547
00:38:43.795 --> 00:38:45.655
Justin, where should I redirect,
548
00:38:46.675 --> 00:38:47.175
moonshippcoin.cash?
549
00:38:49.970 --> 00:38:51.590
Just send it to his Twitter profile.
550
00:38:51.890 --> 00:38:53.030
Good one. Okay.
551
00:38:53.730 --> 00:38:54.710
That was a freebie.
552
00:38:55.490 --> 00:38:58.615
He's gonna make you buy back from Moon at the top. That's right.
553
00:38:59.395 --> 00:38:59.895
Lnd,
554
00:39:01.795 --> 00:39:02.295
0.15.2
555
00:39:03.315 --> 00:39:04.214
dash beta.
556
00:39:04.515 --> 00:39:09.960
Wow. That was that everybody talked about this a bit already. It's the big Taproot Multisig transaction.
557
00:39:10.740 --> 00:39:11.240
998
558
00:39:12.180 --> 00:39:13.320
out of 999,
559
00:39:14.580 --> 00:39:15.080
Multisig,
560
00:39:15.845 --> 00:39:17.625
to prove a point which broke
561
00:39:17.925 --> 00:39:18.425
BTCD,
562
00:39:19.605 --> 00:39:24.260
which is what LND was running behind the scenes, which I'm actually surprised.
563
00:39:24.800 --> 00:39:26.180
I I thought LND
564
00:39:26.480 --> 00:39:27.540
was LNDD.
565
00:39:27.920 --> 00:39:29.060
It's no. You're,
566
00:39:29.400 --> 00:39:33.665
they use they use Well, so they use the library in common. Right.
567
00:39:34.765 --> 00:39:36.305
But you can use,
568
00:39:36.765 --> 00:39:40.065
even if you were using the Bitcoin d back end,
569
00:39:40.660 --> 00:39:43.720
you still had this bug because l and d was using
570
00:39:44.100 --> 00:39:45.880
a library that is a BTCD
571
00:39:46.260 --> 00:39:46.760
library.
572
00:39:47.540 --> 00:39:49.240
I mean, it's pretty it's a fair
573
00:39:49.775 --> 00:39:50.275
bug.
574
00:39:50.895 --> 00:39:56.515
Yeah. I I think this is this is good. It's totally fair bug. I mean good. It all Shows people are using things.
575
00:39:57.300 --> 00:40:01.080
No. No. Seriously, like, Bitcoin is growing. Right? So there's gonna be a lot of
576
00:40:01.460 --> 00:40:03.880
more complexity and a lot more features,
577
00:40:04.825 --> 00:40:06.845
but because Bitcoin is actually good,
578
00:40:09.065 --> 00:40:16.170
it doesn't let you interact with the network in a way that you're not supposed to interact with the network, in the positive or in the negative. Right? So
579
00:40:17.030 --> 00:40:20.970
if you're not supporting a transaction that is supported, you're gonna fork off.
580
00:40:21.385 --> 00:40:24.605
Right? That that would have been the example of of essentially Segwit.
581
00:40:24.985 --> 00:40:29.725
If you didn't support Segwit and your node started seeing Segwit transactions, you would have forked off.
582
00:40:31.190 --> 00:40:32.570
No. Isn't it
583
00:40:32.950 --> 00:40:37.849
well, first of all, I fucking love Barack. He is a smart kid. I'm glad we have him,
584
00:40:38.470 --> 00:40:44.345
and just seems like a good dude. Isn't it like it's because they were, like, half doing it. They were, like, looking at
585
00:40:45.045 --> 00:40:50.910
like, they they had Taproot support because it's a soft fork. Right? So if if your node is pre Segwit,
586
00:40:51.770 --> 00:40:55.710
you wouldn't be seeing Segwit transactions at all. You just wouldn't even know they existed.
587
00:40:56.145 --> 00:41:00.325
This case, they were updated, so they saw the Taproot transaction. They just library
588
00:41:00.785 --> 00:41:02.245
But they didn't have the full implementation.
589
00:41:03.025 --> 00:41:10.930
Yep. Okay. My understanding of it was that you you could have done this without Taproot. The it's just it has to do with the amount of data.
590
00:41:12.085 --> 00:41:16.244
I I did not look into it. I'd have to look at the details, but I think because they
591
00:41:16.565 --> 00:41:19.865
if I recall correctly, there's somebody who reproduced it without taproot.
592
00:41:20.440 --> 00:41:23.580
Interesting. Let's see how many bytes here. No. It's pretty small.
593
00:41:23.880 --> 00:41:29.500
But, like, it it it's not syncing with the chain. Right? Because I wasn't staying with chain tip after.
594
00:41:30.185 --> 00:41:32.685
As far as I know, BTC D forked off
595
00:41:33.145 --> 00:41:34.685
in general, in general
596
00:41:35.145 --> 00:41:42.140
completely far. So just from Lulu's comments, he was saying the issue was in BTC D's wire passing library that deserializes
597
00:41:42.839 --> 00:41:43.339
Roblox.
598
00:41:43.720 --> 00:41:50.535
So I think there was some particular check that he had put in or that they, the T BTCD team had put into that. It was that
599
00:41:50.994 --> 00:41:53.255
it would validate, it would accept the block,
600
00:41:53.555 --> 00:42:03.430
but it was to do with how it passes the block as it comes over the wire. I think that was the issue. So then they had to update that and get that in line, and that was where they did this hot fix, to go 15.2.
601
00:42:04.050 --> 00:42:08.835
Because if you were running Yes. If you were running a, like, a pre tap root
602
00:42:09.535 --> 00:42:10.035
Bitcoin
603
00:42:10.415 --> 00:42:10.915
BTCD,
604
00:42:11.615 --> 00:42:18.650
you didn't fork off. That's right. But but don't forget LND from point 15 onwards was l was taproot by default.
605
00:42:18.950 --> 00:42:19.450
Right.
606
00:42:19.910 --> 00:42:24.395
So, yeah, I I think that to sync the state of a lightning node, you have to process blocks which you get from your,
607
00:42:24.855 --> 00:42:27.115
from your you get from your Bitcoin node. And so,
608
00:42:27.415 --> 00:42:28.775
this transaction, like,
609
00:42:29.255 --> 00:42:35.849
there's a raw transaction, and it's it's quite huge. So I think the basically, like, the stack size in the witness,
610
00:42:36.630 --> 00:42:37.770
was, like, 111,100
611
00:42:38.390 --> 00:42:39.849
or 11,000 bytes.
612
00:42:40.150 --> 00:42:42.810
There's it's hard coded. Anything above 11,000 bytes,
613
00:42:43.375 --> 00:42:50.710
BTCD would just error on. And this transaction was, like, a little above that. Right? So it just it just couldn't it just rejected it. And so,
614
00:42:51.150 --> 00:42:53.109
so then Why are they running
615
00:42:53.569 --> 00:43:21.085
a random size? Because Bitcoin core like, Bitcoin network can take a bigger transaction than that. Yeah. So there there is there is, like, a a a a top size here because you don't wanna be you don't want to accept, like, an arbitrarily large transaction because you have to load it in the memory. If it's too big, it could crash it. You don't wanna have to attempt to validate it. Oh, okay. So it was their choice. So you need you need some of these limits, but so the limit was too low. And so it just, it couldn't parse this. And so, therefore, it rejected the block. And therefore,
616
00:43:21.465 --> 00:43:45.200
your lightning node might have you know, Bitcoin d lightning node might have caught up via the chain tip, but lightning d was not. And one really bad thing here is that you can actually tell if a lightning node an LND node is not at chain tip. And so it's very easy to scan the network and see which nodes you can steal money from. So if you haven't updated, you probably already lost your money. I think, like, it's it'll be close depending on how long your time outs are in lightning.
617
00:43:45.579 --> 00:43:54.225
So that's kinda one of the scary things is you really had the updates quick, and if you haven't, you should update. And then What's the default what's the default time lock? I think 2 weeks.
618
00:43:54.925 --> 00:44:02.790
Yeah. Okay. Okay. So then you're just probably still still time. So then you still have time. Right? Yeah. So just upgrade the LND note if you haven't. That's, like, the takeaway if you're listening.
619
00:44:03.605 --> 00:44:17.250
One kinda concerning thing is that, you know, they're using a library, BGTD, that doesn't have a maintainer. It doesn't have, like, a full time developer. So it's one of those things where, you know, maybe this would have been thought if they had, more people. Like, for example, they they tested they they did test,
620
00:44:18.030 --> 00:44:22.295
this parsing logic. But they only did it with transactions. They didn't do it from a block. So
621
00:44:22.595 --> 00:44:25.895
the actually, the code path that was getting exercised didn't get tested even though,
622
00:44:26.195 --> 00:44:27.175
they thought they had.
623
00:44:27.890 --> 00:44:31.350
Another cool one is, there's a tool released by Tony Georgio.
624
00:44:32.530 --> 00:44:39.494
It's called LN Sploit, which is, like, a really I don't I don't think it's in the notes. It's, like, a cool thing to, like, execute exploits on the lightning network.
625
00:44:40.035 --> 00:44:48.470
This is, you know, and so he he actually gave a demo yesterday of, you know, showing how to do steal this money between 2 reg test nodes.
626
00:44:49.329 --> 00:44:53.270
So it's it's kind of interesting. Lightning hasn't existed in an adversarial environment, and,
627
00:44:54.105 --> 00:44:57.485
and so this is, like see seeing tools like this arise, you know, it's,
628
00:44:58.025 --> 00:45:03.085
if there is an exploit, it'll become easier to to do it, which, you know, encourages people to be a little more conservative.
629
00:45:03.850 --> 00:45:08.750
And also, like, there's just an incentive problem too, right, because it's a lot less value. So
630
00:45:09.130 --> 00:45:16.055
sort of like low hanging fruit problems that can only, you know, access nodes that don't have a lot of money may not be as exploited,
631
00:45:17.315 --> 00:45:18.935
as, you know, a Bitcoin
632
00:45:19.250 --> 00:45:22.950
sort of client that may be holding 1,000,000. Well, this situation
633
00:45:23.569 --> 00:45:30.244
reminded me of, of an idea I'd had of having a node out there that is trying to bait people into,
634
00:45:31.265 --> 00:45:33.045
trying to exploit it. So,
635
00:45:33.664 --> 00:45:35.605
you know, pretending to be offline,
636
00:45:36.440 --> 00:45:37.420
while still watching,
637
00:45:38.280 --> 00:45:40.460
and this would have just been a great opportunity,
638
00:45:41.080 --> 00:45:42.140
to have a plausible,
639
00:45:42.520 --> 00:45:45.500
you know, oh, hey. Come come, you know,
640
00:45:46.005 --> 00:45:49.305
broadcast an old state and then snap you,
641
00:45:50.244 --> 00:45:50.744
you,
642
00:45:51.365 --> 00:45:53.865
punish them, you know, come back online immediately.
643
00:45:54.390 --> 00:46:03.770
And so, like, I think that once you've got people doing that, then now the the game theory is like, alright. I don't know if this person's actually offline or not. And,
644
00:46:04.575 --> 00:46:08.115
that's that's, I think, the important equilibrium to be at,
645
00:46:08.735 --> 00:46:09.455
so that,
646
00:46:09.775 --> 00:46:12.995
lightning is is robust in an adversarial environment.
647
00:46:13.520 --> 00:46:23.625
Yeah. It also gets into the conversation about watchtowers. Right? It's the same kind of idea that if even if your note is offline or hypothetically, if your note was not updated, but the watchtower was, maybe,
648
00:46:23.925 --> 00:46:31.030
you know, there's something there. This is like the debate about, is is should you have concealed carry or open carry of a handgun? And
649
00:46:31.650 --> 00:46:38.505
Yeah. I I like the concealed carry argument of, well, don't you want it to be the case that nobody knows if
650
00:46:38.984 --> 00:46:41.085
if somebody else is armed or not. Right?
651
00:46:41.545 --> 00:46:48.780
And so I would want watchtowers to be, like, concealed as well. Like, you don't know if this person's using a watchtower or not. Mess around. Find out.
652
00:46:49.240 --> 00:46:55.900
You you know, I I think what Pierre is advocating for is a polite society sorry. An armed polite an armed society is a polite society,
653
00:46:56.565 --> 00:47:00.745
a a view for the security of Bitcoin and Lightning. Since you guys mentioned watchtowers,
654
00:47:01.205 --> 00:47:12.549
I'm I'm pretty am I correct that the main l and d watchtower that people use was also affected by this? Yes. Yes. Correct. I know, what's his name? Sergi Delgado. He has this,
655
00:47:13.325 --> 00:47:14.065
I have Satoshi.
656
00:47:14.765 --> 00:47:15.505
I have Satoshi.
657
00:47:16.365 --> 00:47:27.080
But I'm not sure if that would have caught this in this. That only works with core lightning. It doesn't work with L and D is my understanding. Correct. Yes. So, like, l and d has a prepackaged watchtower that everyone's been using,
658
00:47:27.780 --> 00:47:28.840
and that also,
659
00:47:29.815 --> 00:47:36.940
would have been vulnerable. Yeah. But Yeah. You know, that's also a conversation then about how where watchtowers go. Should there be some kind of cross compatibility? I don't know.
660
00:47:37.500 --> 00:47:46.765
Yeah. This is why I normally avoid lightning subjects in the show because, you know, like, we're more like a based layer kind of of thing, and and it's just too complicated.
661
00:47:48.665 --> 00:48:03.115
Alright. Even at the base layer, though, like, the this I think this is a great argument for running multiple implementations side by side. Mhmm. And so that way, you you you have some awareness of what's going on because
662
00:48:03.895 --> 00:48:04.395
hypothetically,
663
00:48:04.775 --> 00:48:09.915
you could have a bug in Bitcoin Core that's not in BTC. Right? That's there's no rule against that.
664
00:48:10.300 --> 00:48:16.995
And, that's something you would wanna catch as well. So Bitcoin knots. Bitcoin knots is the one to run, but I'm not joking. It's
665
00:48:17.555 --> 00:48:23.905
Bitcoin Knots, old versions of Bitcoin Core. Run all the versions. And b core and etcetera. But yeah.
666
00:48:24.360 --> 00:48:33.500
Yeah. Because l and d was the only one that went down. Core lightning was still up. LDK was still up. Electroman Core lightning is in c. That's why it was running.
667
00:48:34.785 --> 00:49:00.150
And even then you could still, I could just to be clear, the failure mode here was not like you could still route payments. It was just that your node wouldn't tell wouldn't be able to tell if the open or closed like channel got closed. So tell if you're getting attacked. Yeah. I just wanted to say before we move on that one of my favorite parts of this whole thing is that Barack tweeted it out super excited. He's like, I just did this massive multi transaction for only $4, and then he just broke all the l and d notes.
668
00:49:00.849 --> 00:49:04.790
It's always how it is. Right? Like, this is exactly how softer breaks.
669
00:49:05.505 --> 00:49:08.085
Better that way than a malicious person. Right? That's right.
670
00:49:09.025 --> 00:49:11.525
Can you imagine if he was a shit quiner that found
671
00:49:11.904 --> 00:49:18.540
this bug? It would have been major drama, but because he was like a friendly, you know, it's like, who cares? Nobody reports on it.
672
00:49:19.160 --> 00:49:24.245
So so the next update is for Matt, and it's mostly because I found out that, like,
673
00:49:24.785 --> 00:49:26.725
their last, fucking VK
674
00:49:27.265 --> 00:49:27.765
commit
675
00:49:28.305 --> 00:49:37.640
really was just drama, and they really just removed, open dime because the library was broken and didn't wanna fix it. So I figured I'd bring back, the ninja wallet here.
676
00:49:38.215 --> 00:49:38.715
Samurai
677
00:49:39.015 --> 00:49:39.515
version
678
00:49:39.895 --> 00:49:40.395
0.99.98f,
679
00:49:43.015 --> 00:49:43.995
making a debut
680
00:49:44.455 --> 00:49:45.115
on bitcoin.review.
681
00:49:47.790 --> 00:49:51.089
They have a new Paynium bot, and to
682
00:49:51.550 --> 00:49:54.050
authenticate with, using Paynium,
683
00:49:54.589 --> 00:49:56.290
brand new UI for both
684
00:49:56.975 --> 00:49:57.475
initiating
685
00:49:58.175 --> 00:49:59.315
collaborative, collaborating
686
00:49:59.775 --> 00:50:00.275
stonewall,
687
00:50:01.375 --> 00:50:02.675
new join bot,
688
00:50:03.135 --> 00:50:04.515
anti spam fee,
689
00:50:05.119 --> 00:50:10.980
and new tool screen for other things that will definitely not include my products because I'm persona non grata.
690
00:50:11.280 --> 00:50:11.780
So
691
00:50:13.295 --> 00:50:13.795
Matt,
692
00:50:14.175 --> 00:50:14.575
please,
693
00:50:15.055 --> 00:50:15.954
take the floor.
694
00:50:16.895 --> 00:50:18.035
It's a major update.
695
00:50:18.494 --> 00:50:19.795
It's good to see it covered.
696
00:50:20.255 --> 00:50:21.075
There you go.
697
00:50:21.950 --> 00:50:24.930
Remember, folks, make sure you use it if you're on Dojo
698
00:50:25.470 --> 00:50:27.410
always. That that is my view.
699
00:50:28.029 --> 00:50:32.945
Yeah. You should always use your wallet with your own node. That's right. Otherwise, you're trusting someone else's node.
700
00:50:33.325 --> 00:50:33.825
Exactly.
701
00:50:34.765 --> 00:50:35.265
Alright.
702
00:50:35.565 --> 00:50:37.745
Is there any other software updates,
703
00:50:38.220 --> 00:50:42.320
like version updates that I may have missed before we move on to the next section of the show?
704
00:50:42.780 --> 00:50:48.484
Was that Jam Wallet a new thing with, a Jam UI for join market? That was a new thing since the
705
00:50:48.785 --> 00:50:59.930
last. Good point. You might have missed that. Yeah. I saw a few people sharing that. It looks really slick. But it's it's not a new release. It's a a beautiful website, I believe. Oh, okay. Oh, it seems like a new UI for
706
00:51:00.790 --> 00:51:02.170
Regardless, it's awesome.
707
00:51:02.545 --> 00:51:06.405
So do do you guys wanna talk about that gem thing? What's the URL?
708
00:51:06.945 --> 00:51:08.005
Oh, I don't remember.
709
00:51:08.705 --> 00:51:09.205
Okay.
710
00:51:10.100 --> 00:51:14.580
So Jam app, maybe? I think they're on RAS by Blitz and,
711
00:51:16.100 --> 00:51:17.320
and Umbrel now.
712
00:51:17.715 --> 00:51:20.055
Umbrel has it. Yeah. Jam, j m.
713
00:51:21.155 --> 00:51:25.495
But they made a really clean new website. Nope. What? Do not go to jmgams.com.
714
00:51:27.160 --> 00:51:28.860
It's a it's a join market
715
00:51:29.400 --> 00:51:30.220
web UI.
716
00:51:30.680 --> 00:51:31.740
Oh, there it is.
717
00:51:33.320 --> 00:51:33.820
Jam
718
00:51:35.405 --> 00:51:35.905
app.org.
719
00:51:37.005 --> 00:51:47.720
But it's a really pretty easy to use you web UI if you're if you're running your own node. Very pretty. Particularly helpful to people that are running one of these popular node projects because it's just like point to click.
720
00:51:49.115 --> 00:51:51.775
Joint market is my favorite privacy project.
721
00:51:52.795 --> 00:51:54.175
It is the least dramatic,
722
00:51:55.355 --> 00:51:56.495
and the most productive.
723
00:51:58.850 --> 00:52:09.115
So and the least central it's fully decentralized. That that's the part that really is to me the Oh, they have a quote up from you on the website. It's really Are you just playing dumb this whole time?
724
00:52:09.734 --> 00:52:14.234
Where is it? Yeah. It's on the it's on their front page if you scroll down. You're the influencer
725
00:52:14.535 --> 00:52:15.275
showing them.
726
00:52:15.890 --> 00:52:21.910
I don't see it. Basically, you're making the point that a lot of the other ones could get shut down and that joint market is, you know, decentralized.
727
00:52:22.609 --> 00:52:23.349
That's great.
728
00:52:23.970 --> 00:52:29.994
Hey. Look at that. And last time I tested it, it was clear net only. So just keep that in mind.
729
00:52:31.415 --> 00:52:36.369
It it they say themselves it's still beta, but they're moving very quickly, which is great to see. That's fantastic.
730
00:52:37.150 --> 00:52:39.010
You know, we need more options
731
00:52:39.550 --> 00:52:40.290
with more
732
00:52:40.670 --> 00:52:41.170
decentralizationness
733
00:52:42.655 --> 00:52:43.555
to these things,
734
00:52:44.175 --> 00:52:46.755
you know, we will win on, like, big time.
735
00:52:47.855 --> 00:52:51.875
I actually spoke to them because we have a bounty out for
736
00:52:52.550 --> 00:52:56.890
that for for basically what Jam is. Nice. Web UI for join market.
737
00:52:57.670 --> 00:53:01.454
And it sounds like they're trying to get consensus because there's
738
00:53:01.755 --> 00:53:03.295
maybe, like, 8 to 10 contributors,
739
00:53:03.835 --> 00:53:16.455
but they they might just donate it to a different open source project. Hey, Spyro. I know you guys like to, love to support and, like, make it rain on a open source project. So, look. There is one right here that could use
740
00:53:16.994 --> 00:53:23.815
some fiat bugs. No. But they literally said they don't want the bounty. Oh. I'm saying the opposite. Oh, the opposite. Oh, wow.
741
00:53:24.820 --> 00:53:32.200
Okay. Well, it's great to see. If they're makers on join market, they could end up making money off of more people using it. There you go.
742
00:53:33.065 --> 00:53:35.165
Alright. Next one on user noteworthy
743
00:53:35.865 --> 00:53:35.945
is,
744
00:53:36.744 --> 00:53:41.690
one of my projects, but I do have somebody else working on it, which is kinda cool,
745
00:53:41.990 --> 00:53:42.490
bitcointreasuries.net.
746
00:53:43.750 --> 00:53:45.849
There's a whole new website, completely
747
00:53:46.390 --> 00:53:48.010
sort of properly made,
748
00:53:48.895 --> 00:53:52.195
is no longer a Google spreadsheet being hosted with a hack,
749
00:53:52.735 --> 00:53:55.075
and you're gonna be able to create your own account,
750
00:53:55.455 --> 00:53:59.710
in the next probably couple weeks and sort of contribute data. There's
751
00:54:00.170 --> 00:54:06.030
API's gonna be in and out. I've talked to the folks from Glassnode, there's some brilliant kids there.
752
00:54:06.505 --> 00:54:07.005
We're
753
00:54:07.385 --> 00:54:10.665
gonna sort of find a way of also listing,
754
00:54:11.065 --> 00:54:13.005
wrapped Bitcoin in Derpify.
755
00:54:14.010 --> 00:54:15.630
It's very important because,
756
00:54:16.730 --> 00:54:17.390
the Derpify
757
00:54:17.690 --> 00:54:19.309
people do have a lot of Bitcoin,
758
00:54:19.849 --> 00:54:20.910
and they are
759
00:54:21.535 --> 00:54:23.395
money or not a influencer
760
00:54:23.695 --> 00:54:25.635
in the greater bitcoin economy.
761
00:54:26.255 --> 00:54:30.230
So I wanna capture that and understand that risk. There is charts
762
00:54:31.090 --> 00:54:32.710
and all kinds of cool stuff.
763
00:54:33.090 --> 00:54:33.990
The guys from,
764
00:54:34.530 --> 00:54:35.590
what was her name?
765
00:54:36.370 --> 00:54:36.870
Mackenzie.
766
00:54:37.474 --> 00:54:40.694
Mackenzie, that that one of the only good, Bitcoin journalists
767
00:54:41.155 --> 00:54:44.935
just used this site as a a reference in one of her latest articles.
768
00:54:45.539 --> 00:54:49.640
Anyways, it's, it's a lot of fun, man, to, to have this data there
769
00:54:50.019 --> 00:54:52.119
because, it's kinda like watching
770
00:54:52.660 --> 00:54:55.895
the size of the pile that people are making on Bitcoin, and
771
00:54:56.595 --> 00:55:02.935
business people are very competitive, and they need a leaderboard to understand how much more Bitcoin they need to buy.
772
00:55:03.490 --> 00:55:06.630
So if I can provide that as a service, so be it.
773
00:55:07.090 --> 00:55:11.270
So, yeah, pretty pretty excited about that. The the new site does look fucking awesome.
774
00:55:11.815 --> 00:55:15.035
I just wanna point out before we move on that NVK
775
00:55:15.495 --> 00:55:16.475
sold bitcointreasuries.org
776
00:55:17.415 --> 00:55:19.355
to the same guys that bought Bitbo,
777
00:55:19.700 --> 00:55:21.320
and then he just launched bitcointreasuries.net
778
00:55:22.180 --> 00:55:23.000
and made improvements.
779
00:55:23.700 --> 00:55:26.440
To be fair, though, I did wanna sell the whole package.
780
00:55:26.820 --> 00:55:27.560
The data,
781
00:55:28.444 --> 00:55:37.505
the domains, the Twitter account, and everything. They said they didn't want it. I said, listen, you know, if you if you don't wanna buy the whole thing, then I'm gonna run it because I'm still passionate about this project.
782
00:55:38.430 --> 00:55:39.730
They're okay with it, so,
783
00:55:40.270 --> 00:55:45.490
so that's what it is. It's dot net now even though I don't like the dot net framework.
784
00:55:46.235 --> 00:55:49.855
So, yeah, so so we have that going there. It's a lot of fun.
785
00:55:50.715 --> 00:55:51.215
Stratumv2
786
00:55:52.235 --> 00:55:53.375
reference implementation.
787
00:55:54.310 --> 00:55:55.610
This is really cool.
788
00:55:55.990 --> 00:55:56.970
Stratum V2
789
00:55:57.270 --> 00:55:59.770
is a big, big deal for minors.
790
00:56:00.470 --> 00:56:02.250
It was a long time coming.
791
00:56:03.035 --> 00:56:04.174
It's not simple,
792
00:56:04.875 --> 00:56:07.855
and, you know, it's just one of those things that, like,
793
00:56:08.555 --> 00:56:10.174
people people got it done.
794
00:56:10.780 --> 00:56:13.600
Any any of you guys have some commentary on it?
795
00:56:16.460 --> 00:56:20.865
Okay. None of us are gonna have fun staying poor the next few weeks as miners.
796
00:56:21.565 --> 00:56:24.225
Well actually no, Pierre works for Riot now.
797
00:56:25.325 --> 00:56:27.585
This is gonna be, it's gonna be wonderful
798
00:56:28.340 --> 00:56:31.000
to have the new Hash rate the Bitcoin prices,
799
00:56:31.380 --> 00:56:35.480
but I am certain Riot is gonna make it. Or maybe the new Hash is Riot.
800
00:56:36.204 --> 00:56:40.545
Well Well, I did say Riot was number 6 on the leaderboard, so I think they'll they'll make it.
801
00:56:40.925 --> 00:56:42.785
I have a long running theory
802
00:56:43.860 --> 00:56:48.920
that, what happens every single bear market cycle that the hash rate goes up
803
00:56:49.460 --> 00:56:52.680
is essentially the miners that are in a good
804
00:56:53.005 --> 00:56:53.825
cash position.
805
00:56:55.005 --> 00:56:59.905
They will hold off turning on hash rates just before the price truly dumps,
806
00:57:00.579 --> 00:57:13.755
And then like, just and everybody looks like they're gonna like completely get destroyed because of the price and their leverage on the mining equipment, then they're gonna turn on the mining gear to really, like, destroy completely the mining competition,
807
00:57:14.535 --> 00:57:20.980
and, and then they'll just buy them all out. Is that the equivalent of, like, 1 kid bullying the other by dunking his head under the water?
808
00:57:21.440 --> 00:57:25.700
Yeah. Kind of. But to be fair, like, that kid is dunking their own heads into the water.
809
00:57:27.645 --> 00:57:29.505
I think that's a little bit too conspiratorial.
810
00:57:29.885 --> 00:57:31.025
I mean, I think that,
811
00:57:32.605 --> 00:57:37.390
speaking as as an insider, at the end of the day, it takes time to deploy.
812
00:57:38.170 --> 00:57:39.310
And there's
813
00:57:39.690 --> 00:57:50.585
in order for the profit margin compression to happen, yeah, it takes, like, 18 to 24 months. Right? And so that's why, you know, from the top of the bull market to the bottom,
814
00:57:50.965 --> 00:57:52.810
it's it's a brutal ride down,
815
00:57:53.350 --> 00:57:55.530
but, hash rate number go up.
816
00:57:55.910 --> 00:57:58.810
And, and then the cycle will start all over again.
817
00:57:59.190 --> 00:58:00.890
You know? People will
818
00:58:01.335 --> 00:58:01.835
abandon,
819
00:58:02.934 --> 00:58:06.954
you know, the the marginal miners will will turn off. Right? They'll go away.
820
00:58:07.255 --> 00:58:13.599
And then, the Bitcoin bull market will come back, and then everyone will be scrambling to build more infrastructure
821
00:58:14.300 --> 00:58:17.599
and then, actually come online during the next bear market.
822
00:58:18.355 --> 00:58:28.380
So what what Pierce actually described is, like, is that scene where the bully is grabbing the kid's hand and punching them in the face with their own hand and saying, you're doing this to your own self?
823
00:58:28.680 --> 00:58:32.460
I'm just kidding. No. It is actually, like, it's new to me.
824
00:58:32.760 --> 00:58:39.994
I'm not super, like, into the mining industry. But you are you are into the manufacturing industry. You know it takes time to
825
00:58:40.295 --> 00:58:41.035
to manufacture
826
00:58:41.734 --> 00:58:50.920
a a new device. Right? And so No. It's just fascinating to me how long though, like, the 16 to 18 months for, like you know, because the mining industry is it's fairly, like,
827
00:58:51.380 --> 00:58:51.880
mature.
828
00:58:52.315 --> 00:58:52.815
Right?
829
00:58:53.275 --> 00:58:57.214
Well, I mean, mature between quotes, like, mature for Bitcoin. Right?
830
00:58:57.675 --> 00:58:58.795
I mean, look look,
831
00:59:00.130 --> 00:59:01.590
we just had a 1,000
832
00:59:01.890 --> 00:59:05.030
multisig cause, you know, a big bug and, like like,
833
00:59:05.410 --> 00:59:28.165
we're we're all trying to figure this out. So early. Time. We were so early. We are so so early. Early. Yeah. And I think one other point to add is that really, like, from the miner's point of view, it's not I don't think it's that likely that they would have capacity that they could turn on that they don't. Yeah. That would never happen. Right. Like, why wouldn't they? Like, if they're profitable, they should turn it on. Right? Yeah. So I think that kinda maybe goes against the conspiratorial
834
00:59:28.945 --> 00:59:38.859
argument in in some way because it's kind of like, look, they just genuinely have some delay with getting the machinery or getting the rack space or getting the power, you know, that kind of thing. The power seems to be the power infrastructure
835
00:59:39.160 --> 00:59:50.325
do seems to be, like, the biggest bottleneck now, not the ASICs or the the gear. It seems some of the miners that I have sort of conversations with seems to be their problem. I don't know if that's widespread in the industry,
836
00:59:50.944 --> 00:59:52.724
but, like, you know, you can't get
837
00:59:53.090 --> 00:59:53.590
transformers.
838
00:59:54.370 --> 00:59:57.830
Yeah. You can't get, like, the actual last mile
839
00:59:58.370 --> 01:00:01.830
of that that because, like, people don't understand the size
840
01:00:02.415 --> 01:00:08.835
of the energy delivery that you have last mile for minors. Like, it's pretty crazy. And, like, Riot acquired
841
01:00:09.619 --> 01:00:19.315
a company called ESS Metron that makes electrical equipment. There you go. It's like, you've you gotta do whatever it takes. You guys must be loving the price of copper right
842
01:00:20.975 --> 01:00:23.475
now. There's there's definitely I mean, you know,
843
01:00:23.855 --> 01:00:26.610
I guess, just refer to our public financial statements.
844
01:00:27.010 --> 01:00:30.070
Yeah. No. I have a I have a a a friend,
845
01:00:30.370 --> 01:00:31.350
a hunting friend,
846
01:00:31.810 --> 01:00:35.270
who does the electrical design for Amazon warehouses.
847
01:00:36.445 --> 01:00:37.405
Very smart kid. And,
848
01:00:39.165 --> 01:00:45.025
you know, he's always telling me, like, dude, you have no idea the insanity right now. It's like, I can't get this. I can't get that.
849
01:00:46.010 --> 01:00:47.870
And and this is like fucking Amazon.
850
01:00:48.330 --> 01:00:52.830
Right? Like, I mean, you know, they go, like, jump and the companies go how high.
851
01:00:53.295 --> 01:01:04.410
So I can't even imagine how how difficult it is for for for companies that don't have that kind of reach because a lot of the stuff you guys are buying is commodity. Right? So you guys are literally competing with Amazon warehouses.
852
01:01:05.350 --> 01:01:05.850
So
853
01:01:06.390 --> 01:01:08.090
it's, it must be very interesting.
854
01:01:09.325 --> 01:01:10.385
Hatter is fun.
855
01:01:10.845 --> 01:01:15.345
It is. But, Riot is is growing, and, we just came out with our monthly,
856
01:01:15.805 --> 01:01:16.305
report.
857
01:01:16.809 --> 01:01:19.789
Our hash rate is, still heading record. So,
858
01:01:20.089 --> 01:01:22.270
yeah, adding more machines every day.
859
01:01:22.809 --> 01:01:26.305
Cool. Alright. Next update is, Plebe creates
860
01:01:26.785 --> 01:01:28.484
a 2 of 3 multisig
861
01:01:28.785 --> 01:01:29.505
air gap,
862
01:01:29.825 --> 01:01:31.125
vault with code
863
01:01:31.425 --> 01:01:34.325
card ledger and tap signer. It's the keykeeper.
864
01:01:35.579 --> 01:01:38.240
I think that's actually the Praneef,
865
01:01:38.700 --> 01:01:39.839
I think is his name,
866
01:01:40.300 --> 01:01:42.800
one of the main lead devs at
867
01:01:43.965 --> 01:01:47.265
Hexa Wallet. Matt Matt, I think you you know those guys,
868
01:01:48.125 --> 01:01:49.505
you you know those guys well.
869
01:01:50.045 --> 01:01:53.245
Yeah. So, I mean, Hexa Wallet originally had, like, a novel
870
01:01:53.950 --> 01:01:56.369
it was a mobile wallet that had, like, a novel Shamir's
871
01:01:56.830 --> 01:01:59.170
secrets combined with multisig scheme
872
01:01:59.630 --> 01:02:00.770
and no seed backups.
873
01:02:01.525 --> 01:02:08.665
And they realized the importance of standards, so they pulled they pulled that scheme. They made Hexa Wallet just a basic,
874
01:02:09.030 --> 01:02:19.095
you know, seed standard wallet that complies with with the seeds that everyone else uses, and then they came out with a separate app, Keeper, that is focused on multisig
875
01:02:19.715 --> 01:02:25.175
and specifically working with hardware wallets on phones. So they're kinda like the second ones to do it after Nunchuk.
876
01:02:25.680 --> 01:02:30.420
And I I mean, I expect this trend to continue. Like, mobile mobile first kind of experiences
877
01:02:31.040 --> 01:02:40.635
are gonna become more and more common because more and more Bitcoiners, that's gonna be the main way they interact. Well, I mean, like, you know, 90% of the world is mobile first. Right? I mean,
878
01:02:41.650 --> 01:02:47.510
it's it's pretty crazy. People who have, like, real money in in sort of, like, first world
879
01:02:48.695 --> 01:02:59.950
terms. We'll have computers and they're gonna go for air gap, and it's gonna be a fuck to the money. But, like, when you're talking about, you know, the majority of the world's population, you will be mobile first. People don't actually own a computer,
880
01:03:00.410 --> 01:03:02.430
and they'll have phones with crappy cameras
881
01:03:02.970 --> 01:03:11.224
and, you you know, crappy screens. And that's why, like, NFC is on everything. That that like, NFC will eat the world. It already did with payments,
882
01:03:11.845 --> 01:03:20.720
so it's just a progression of that. I think this is this is great. And what's cool too is that all this wallets are supporting everything. They're supporting QR's, they're supporting SD's, they're supporting NFC's.
883
01:03:21.340 --> 01:03:22.560
At the end of the day,
884
01:03:22.994 --> 01:03:25.815
the more ways people have to interact with Bitcoin
885
01:03:26.434 --> 01:03:30.055
and ways to not have the keys on their phones, the better.
886
01:03:30.450 --> 01:03:34.550
I think this is super cool. And these guys are based in India too, which is
887
01:03:34.930 --> 01:03:39.830
you know, I I hope they start focusing on that market as opposed to the North American market.
888
01:03:40.545 --> 01:03:42.865
It must be a smaller market at the moment, but,
889
01:03:43.345 --> 01:03:46.725
I I don't know. Like, have you talked to them about this? From my perspective,
890
01:03:47.670 --> 01:03:50.810
there's a lot of mind share in the American English speaking
891
01:03:51.430 --> 01:03:51.930
community.
892
01:03:52.790 --> 01:04:01.555
So they've been basically it's, like, 2 pronged. They've they've obviously been focused on the ground in India, but, you know, they they they basically are are publicizing
893
01:04:01.855 --> 01:04:05.234
themselves to American English speakers for peer review.
894
01:04:05.600 --> 01:04:11.780
Like, they even have a they have a big conference they're doing there, the first Bitcoin only India conference. I'm a speaker.
895
01:04:12.845 --> 01:04:17.025
Yeah. Me me me and Stefan will be remote. I think I assume you're remote as well.
896
01:04:17.565 --> 01:04:18.845
Yeah. I just yeah. It was
897
01:04:19.644 --> 01:04:23.570
Yeah. But they're good guys. They mean well, you know? Yep. They do.
898
01:04:23.950 --> 01:04:25.250
They got some of the bounty
899
01:04:25.710 --> 01:04:26.770
for, JavaScript,
900
01:04:27.230 --> 01:04:28.850
library. They're not, like,
901
01:04:29.310 --> 01:04:34.335
the most talented dev team by any means in the space, but but they're trying and they're improving.
902
01:04:35.275 --> 01:04:45.880
And it's good to see because they do mean well. I think as projects like that start to have a bigger user base or more funding in those countries, they will have
903
01:04:46.260 --> 01:04:55.425
a lot better quality code and a lot of things happening because they will attract better talent that wants to live there, already is from there, the life that wants to come back.
904
01:04:55.805 --> 01:04:56.785
You will find,
905
01:04:57.440 --> 01:04:59.859
yeah, I think the call quality will improve
906
01:05:00.400 --> 01:05:02.339
as the number go up improves,
907
01:05:03.680 --> 01:05:06.820
in terms of users and and Bitcoin sort of adoption.
908
01:05:07.345 --> 01:05:11.285
It's bullish. You know, when you look at the quality of apps like in Brazil,
909
01:05:11.905 --> 01:05:13.685
or in India, on the app stores,
910
01:05:14.945 --> 01:05:15.845
you know, like
911
01:05:16.359 --> 01:05:18.140
this is this is miles better,
912
01:05:19.319 --> 01:05:24.460
so it's it's and it's not English centric, hopefully, for their app in their country.
913
01:05:25.085 --> 01:05:27.505
So I I think it's it's gonna take time,
914
01:05:28.125 --> 01:05:29.825
and it's gonna take a lot of effort.
915
01:05:31.005 --> 01:05:32.945
Okay. So the Guatemalan guy
916
01:05:33.369 --> 01:05:33.869
mining
917
01:05:34.570 --> 01:05:36.670
Bitcoin with used cooking oil. I mean,
918
01:05:37.130 --> 01:05:48.950
how could you not just at least mention it? I just really love it. I mean, you know, the dude is like, you know, my backyard, I got a miner, I got a motor that can burn biodiesel, I'm gonna put some coconut cooking oil on it, why not?
919
01:05:49.750 --> 01:05:52.570
It probably smelled terrible around it, but hey. Fantastic.
920
01:05:53.190 --> 01:05:59.345
That's why the hash rate is spiking. It's that dude. That's right. You know, North America is is is is dumping
921
01:05:59.885 --> 01:06:05.505
vegetable oils and, seed oils. So now we have a new path for all these crappy oils.
922
01:06:05.950 --> 01:06:08.130
Let's just, burn them and make sats.
923
01:06:08.430 --> 01:06:13.170
If you talk with the, renewable people, for some reason, they've decided that biomass
924
01:06:13.550 --> 01:06:14.290
is renewable,
925
01:06:14.915 --> 01:06:16.935
And so It's because it grows again.
926
01:06:17.315 --> 01:06:20.695
Right. And so they're they're, like, cutting down entire forests
927
01:06:21.315 --> 01:06:22.055
to burn
928
01:06:22.435 --> 01:06:23.815
instead of using coal
929
01:06:24.300 --> 01:06:24.800
because
930
01:06:25.420 --> 01:06:35.984
it's more renewable. But it pollutes more. It's way worse by every measure. But somebody lobbied the right people to add biomass to the list of renewable technology,
931
01:06:36.605 --> 01:06:37.825
which is really just,
932
01:06:38.204 --> 01:06:40.464
you know, going back to ancient technology.
933
01:06:41.005 --> 01:06:52.110
But, yeah, it's it's insanity. And so I I think this guy is at the forefront of renewable Bitcoin mining. Pierre, you just have a wrong time frame in mind. Okay? See, oil is renewable.
934
01:06:52.914 --> 01:07:03.329
Every 100000000 years, you're gonna have dinosaurs that are gonna get, you know, an algae in the ocean that's gonna be completely covered by soil again, and it's gonna make oil again. So oil is renewable.
935
01:07:03.710 --> 01:07:18.680
Right. If you look at cooking oils through the same lens, you know, it's all the same. Everything's renewable. The biomass thing's even more fucked up because they're cutting our forests and they're shipping them to Europe so Europe can say it's renewable. We're not even burning our own forests.
936
01:07:19.700 --> 01:07:24.500
Well, it also cuts into food supply, and that's their real goal is to deop depopulate the world. So
937
01:07:25.465 --> 01:07:30.605
I mean, this is true for ethanol. Right? I mean, in Brazil, they do sugarcane. In the US, they do corn,
938
01:07:31.065 --> 01:07:31.565
and,
939
01:07:32.240 --> 01:07:37.300
you know, you're taking farmland that could be producing, you know, amazing meat or whatever,
940
01:07:37.680 --> 01:07:40.420
even kale for the people who prefer kale over meat,
941
01:07:41.165 --> 01:07:42.785
and they're producing crap
942
01:07:43.165 --> 01:07:49.410
that's mono cropped and destroys the environment to make fuel that is really not great.
943
01:07:49.790 --> 01:07:53.250
You know, you would notice on on, better combustion engines,
944
01:07:53.550 --> 01:07:56.849
especially the the high end ones, they'll say no ethanol, please,
945
01:07:57.555 --> 01:07:58.535
right on the tank.
946
01:07:58.995 --> 01:07:59.395
So,
947
01:08:00.115 --> 01:08:03.735
it's very unfortunate that we live in a world of such a
948
01:08:04.410 --> 01:08:05.790
a skilled understanding
949
01:08:06.329 --> 01:08:06.910
of physics.
950
01:08:07.369 --> 01:08:08.990
And the other point to see,
951
01:08:09.369 --> 01:08:12.829
related is how Europe is redefining energy
952
01:08:13.155 --> 01:08:19.735
as green. Right? So for example, they were they recently redefined gas as green. Now it's in a way you can make that argument. Bombs are ESG.
953
01:08:20.720 --> 01:08:24.660
Yeah. Well, I mean, ultimately necessity is driving them to actually remember,
954
01:08:25.040 --> 01:08:30.715
actually, we have to be pragmatic instead of virtue signaling and wind and solar and all that. Yep.
955
01:08:31.015 --> 01:08:34.875
Specifically with this dude, I just wanna say it's just really cool that
956
01:08:35.735 --> 01:08:46.290
the way, like, proof of work works, that, like, it just rewards ingenuity. Like, the guy was just creative. He was resourceful. He figured out an edge. And then the second thing is, you know, Pierre started the environmental thing
957
01:08:46.645 --> 01:08:47.865
come part of this conversation,
958
01:08:48.485 --> 01:09:02.820
but he actually makes a point in the thing that the locals were just dumping the the used cooking oil in his local lake. So he can just get it from all the other people too, and instead of them dumping in the lake, he's fucking making Bitcoin off of it. Well, don't you guys remember that movie Nerds
959
01:09:03.275 --> 01:09:05.455
that the guy had to buy a diesel car?
960
01:09:05.755 --> 01:09:08.815
They're similar, you know? It just the oil is going through the garbage anyways.
961
01:09:10.449 --> 01:09:15.190
Don't throw oil in your fucking local lakes, please. Yeah. Mine, make sure with them.
962
01:09:16.290 --> 01:09:16.790
Alright.
963
01:09:17.775 --> 01:09:18.275
Peach
964
01:09:18.735 --> 01:09:22.755
was announced, came out public finally. P 2p mobile application.
965
01:09:23.375 --> 01:09:25.395
Essentially, it's like a p 2p market.
966
01:09:25.820 --> 01:09:38.574
I find it super cool. It's Steph, right, who's behind this. Yeah. Proof of Steph. She's been around at Amsterdam as well at this conference. She's been around Bitcoin for a while too, if memory serves well. Indeed. Not a noob.
967
01:09:39.195 --> 01:10:00.300
It's just it's nice to see, her starting a project. It's nice to see this p two p thing's not using some stupid token and hipsters just exchanging crap. What's the name of that app that, like, people used? I wanna compare it to something so people know. There was an app that, like, it was the craze in North America pre COVID that, like, everybody was exchanging crap around,
968
01:10:00.680 --> 01:10:02.940
and you get some credits that were not
969
01:10:03.240 --> 01:10:03.740
Bitcoin.
970
01:10:05.000 --> 01:10:05.500
But
971
01:10:05.880 --> 01:10:07.580
anyways I don't know what you're talking about.
972
01:10:08.355 --> 01:10:20.760
But, anyway, the cool part about some peach is, you know, peach is mobile first, very easy to use way to get no k y c Bitcoin or to sell your Bitcoin without k y c peer to peer. But what's interesting to me is
973
01:10:21.220 --> 01:10:25.240
the peach team and the Robosats team basically kind of realized it at the same time.
974
01:10:25.565 --> 01:10:30.145
Maybe Huddl Huddl kinda realized it first that maybe you don't need to be
975
01:10:30.845 --> 01:10:37.190
as censorship resistant as something like BISK where you have that trade off of convenience, and you can have some elements of centralization.
976
01:10:38.050 --> 01:10:43.405
You're just not taking custody of funds. So they're both centralized, but they're not taking custody.
977
01:10:43.945 --> 01:10:45.645
And, basically, now it's a test.
978
01:10:46.665 --> 01:10:55.409
Is that enough for regulators or not? And if it if it is enough, then we can continue using that. And if it isn't enough, then you have to go to a more censorship resistant model like this.
979
01:10:55.710 --> 01:11:03.075
I think they will have a very hard time trying to make apps like this fit in the box of regulated stuff because
980
01:11:03.615 --> 01:11:09.390
they're they're gonna have to make Craigslist or Facebook be a money, a KYC because you wanna sell a toaster.
981
01:11:09.690 --> 01:11:12.830
Right? I actually sold a coffee machine today.
982
01:11:13.370 --> 01:11:16.750
A guy showed up, gave me the money for the coffee machine,
983
01:11:17.595 --> 01:11:22.895
and, you know, and it was my wife who had posted, right, in one of this whatever places.
984
01:11:23.515 --> 01:11:24.015
And
985
01:11:24.330 --> 01:11:27.230
I'm not gonna dox. Anyways, I don't wanna get into details.
986
01:11:27.530 --> 01:11:36.535
But, you know, like, it's just the guy gave me some cash and then and, oh, I wish it was Bitcoin, but in a way, it kinda bettered it's not because some dude's showing up at my door. But,
987
01:11:37.075 --> 01:11:41.469
it it you know, I think people greatly, like, underappreciate
988
01:11:41.849 --> 01:11:43.710
the size of the informal
989
01:11:44.489 --> 01:11:47.230
economy of, like, sort of, like, used trades.
990
01:11:47.725 --> 01:11:48.545
It's a monumentally
991
01:11:49.324 --> 01:11:50.145
large market,
992
01:11:50.685 --> 01:11:56.000
and, it it's just nice to see apps that focus on the Bitcoin stuff. Can you list,
993
01:11:56.460 --> 01:12:03.280
sort of, like do they do the the gift card thing like like Bisk does? Do they do the other things like that?
994
01:12:03.804 --> 01:12:12.864
You choose your, your preferred payment methods. There's multiple preferred payment methods. At, like, an event like Bitcoin Amsterdam, they actually enable cash if you're in Amsterdam
995
01:12:13.520 --> 01:12:14.420
for the event.
996
01:12:14.960 --> 01:12:18.739
And then it auto the app automatically basically matches you with a
997
01:12:19.120 --> 01:12:20.020
a proper buyer.
998
01:12:20.480 --> 01:12:24.575
Very cool. Yeah. And it's all mobile focused. It's super clean.
999
01:12:25.515 --> 01:12:26.575
Very, very cool.
1000
01:12:27.035 --> 01:12:27.535
Alright.
1001
01:12:28.610 --> 01:12:33.190
Celsius discloses the name transactions. I think the community sort of, like, beat this one to DAF.
1002
01:12:33.730 --> 01:12:34.310
I mean,
1003
01:12:35.170 --> 01:12:42.204
it's it's a problem. Research anybody's name that use Celsius and get their Doesn't mean you should. Fair enough. Kind of, rubbernecking,
1004
01:12:42.905 --> 01:12:43.144
the,
1005
01:12:43.945 --> 01:12:45.164
accident on the highway.
1006
01:12:45.730 --> 01:12:48.950
Yes. Good point. Because, listen, anyone and everything
1007
01:12:49.330 --> 01:12:57.245
is searchable if you look hard enough, honestly. I mean, this is this is the issue, though. Right? The issue is that when you have KYC
1008
01:12:57.625 --> 01:12:58.125
information,
1009
01:12:58.585 --> 01:13:00.845
like, it's not gonna get KYC is the crime.
1010
01:13:01.290 --> 01:13:07.309
But this wasn't even a fucking hack. Like, the bankruptcy judge had them file this publicly.
1011
01:13:07.690 --> 01:13:09.309
This is the standard for bankruptcy
1012
01:13:09.805 --> 01:13:11.905
court in the US as far as I understand.
1013
01:13:12.445 --> 01:13:16.145
They are not sealed. Right? Like, they wanna include in the in the filings
1014
01:13:16.980 --> 01:13:24.635
every single creditor, which kinda makes sense. The problem is we live in a new world where people can, like, you know, show up at your house and kill you. So,
1015
01:13:25.094 --> 01:13:34.074
you know, it's not quite, like, rebalanced on how courts work. We're based on Internet and reality. Like, we have a legal system that's a little uncapped at times,
1016
01:13:34.840 --> 01:13:38.220
and that's true for many things. I mean, like, the fact that, like,
1017
01:13:38.680 --> 01:13:48.555
you know, license plates for cars work the way that they do or that the the names and addresses of, like, you know, company directors or or executives is right on filings.
1018
01:13:49.150 --> 01:13:58.050
It's insanity, right, that, like, you have your personal information like that in a world where people can, like, snap their fingers and get it. Who knows? Maybe things will change in the coming years
1019
01:13:58.425 --> 01:14:05.570
because you'll get enough backlash, right, the politicians might sort of have to to change some of the rules. I I think you've gotta get Bitcoiners elected
1020
01:14:13.895 --> 01:14:18.235
Or just buy all the politicians. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Sure. Sure. Of course.
1021
01:14:18.695 --> 01:14:22.635
I I think what's gonna happen is Bitcoiners are just gonna own all the politicians because
1022
01:14:23.250 --> 01:14:25.110
productive people don't wanna be politicians.
1023
01:14:26.770 --> 01:14:28.710
It's it's a full time job.
1024
01:14:31.224 --> 01:14:43.120
Yeah. Minding everybody else's business. Essentially, that's the job. Right? Well, that and and you have people coming to you with their problems and you you need to fix all their problems. So it's it's like. Oh, my God. Can you imagine?
1025
01:14:44.060 --> 01:14:49.855
It's like winning the lottery, right? You've got people asking you for money all day long. Yeah. It's pretty brutal. Yeah.
1026
01:14:50.235 --> 01:14:51.215
Anyways, so,
1027
01:14:51.675 --> 01:14:52.175
you
1028
01:14:52.635 --> 01:15:00.460
know, like, I might as well sort of, like, at least, like, mention it, like, you know, don't store information that you don't need to legally.
1029
01:15:01.400 --> 01:15:09.645
Don't don't keep it. Right? Like, it it all, like, when you look at all the hacks and all the Bitcoin companies, it's always like the stupid marketing database.
1030
01:15:11.065 --> 01:15:14.909
It's never the actual financial tool because those actually have a higher bar security.
1031
01:15:15.210 --> 01:15:19.630
But in this case, it was a financial tool. I know. I know. I know. Don't lend out your Bitcoin.
1032
01:15:20.170 --> 01:15:22.745
Well, there's that too. Lots of lessons here.
1033
01:15:23.605 --> 01:15:28.345
But, like, Celsius was an obvious, like, Ponzi scam. Anybody offering you
1034
01:15:28.725 --> 01:15:30.425
anything that is, like, say,
1035
01:15:30.949 --> 01:15:33.130
it was actually 5, no,
1036
01:15:33.510 --> 01:15:36.330
6 or 7 times the interest rate
1037
01:15:36.949 --> 01:15:37.449
returns.
1038
01:15:38.764 --> 01:15:42.065
It it's like So this made me, like, question
1039
01:15:42.525 --> 01:15:43.025
my
1040
01:15:44.045 --> 01:15:45.824
are we're in a such a bubble.
1041
01:15:46.130 --> 01:15:49.190
Like, I I didn't I didn't even know Celsius really existed
1042
01:15:49.730 --> 01:15:50.710
until it started,
1043
01:15:51.010 --> 01:15:54.230
like, falling apart and, like, people are freaking out about it on Twitter.
1044
01:15:55.015 --> 01:15:59.755
But a lot of people used it. Like, a lot of people that I would have thought would never have used it used it.
1045
01:16:00.055 --> 01:16:01.115
That was the first,
1046
01:16:01.950 --> 01:16:05.890
peak by the way, we did not reach bubble levels by the rainbow chart,
1047
01:16:06.670 --> 01:16:08.210
so you cannot call it a bubble.
1048
01:16:08.965 --> 01:16:14.425
And we had double peaks, which also does not count. I I think he's saying that we live in an echo chamber.
1049
01:16:14.725 --> 01:16:18.345
That's right. Yeah. But I did not notice the peak either.
1050
01:16:18.750 --> 01:16:27.170
Like, I really didn't. I was sort of like totally going with my own life, you know, doing the things I do, and and I did not notice
1051
01:16:27.555 --> 01:16:28.935
that we were at the peak,
1052
01:16:29.315 --> 01:16:29.815
because
1053
01:16:30.355 --> 01:16:32.055
it was not stupid enough.
1054
01:16:32.755 --> 01:16:34.455
Clearly, we are in a bubble,
1055
01:16:34.810 --> 01:16:46.895
because it was stupid enough outside of our bubble. I mean, I think we're still in a bubble with you know, you were talking about earlier about the wrapped Bitcoin on these other chains. Mhmm. Like, I see that is
1056
01:16:47.595 --> 01:16:50.975
equivalent from an economic perspective to Celsius.
1057
01:16:52.420 --> 01:17:02.165
And that's you know, there's a lot that should unravel, but I I think that we'll probably end up going into a bull market before a lot of the other nonsense unravels anyway.
1058
01:17:02.465 --> 01:17:04.245
You know, I'm of the opinion that,
1059
01:17:04.945 --> 01:17:08.405
you know, unfortunately, the shikway market hasn't even started
1060
01:17:09.190 --> 01:17:15.449
because, like, the the best scammers out there haven't even heard about how they can create a scam on DeFi. Right?
1061
01:17:15.909 --> 01:17:16.409
So
1062
01:17:16.949 --> 01:17:18.090
this stuff, like,
1063
01:17:18.585 --> 01:17:19.225
man, the
1064
01:17:20.025 --> 01:17:22.365
this scam town is still gonna be like,
1065
01:17:23.225 --> 01:17:23.785
you know, like Yeah.
1066
01:17:24.745 --> 01:17:28.045
Because a 1000x, a 1000000x all we have now.
1067
01:17:28.430 --> 01:17:32.530
When we hear people talking about, like, regulatory clarity and the SEC,
1068
01:17:32.989 --> 01:17:37.815
basically, they're saying, like, we need to legalize shit coins. They need to be like fully
1069
01:17:38.275 --> 01:17:38.775
legalized.
1070
01:17:39.235 --> 01:17:39.735
And
1071
01:17:40.355 --> 01:17:54.985
when that happens, they say, oh, there's going to be massive growth in the crypto industry. And what they mean is that, like, you're going to have Apple Coin, you're going to have Google Coin, you're going to have Amazon Coin. Right. And you're going to have. Own shit coin dot cash. Yeah.
1072
01:17:56.725 --> 01:18:01.705
That one. But that's a legitimate investment. I don't know why you brought that up. I was talking about shit coins.
1073
01:18:02.700 --> 01:18:06.460
So it's only. Yeah, I agree. I think that they're going to,
1074
01:18:07.100 --> 01:18:08.880
they're going to legalize shit coining
1075
01:18:09.420 --> 01:18:18.505
because right now it's it's not fully legal, Right? Like, it's an under registered security. It's kind of in a gray area at best, you know, depending who you ask. But once it's fully legalized,
1076
01:18:19.285 --> 01:18:26.610
then, yeah, I think that you're gonna have the big boys come in with all their marketing, and they're going to be doing lots of pump and dumps. And,
1077
01:18:27.090 --> 01:18:29.110
you know, we're gonna be over here Bitcoining,
1078
01:18:29.525 --> 01:18:33.304
but, people will have to learn the hard way and and and come join us later.
1079
01:18:34.724 --> 01:18:36.105
Yeah. I I mean,
1080
01:18:39.000 --> 01:18:40.219
people wanna believe.
1081
01:18:40.840 --> 01:18:45.420
Right? They they wanna believe they can make those 20% returns by doing nothing. Right?
1082
01:18:46.515 --> 01:18:51.415
And and you can't you can't remove that from them. Like, I mean, like, there is no
1083
01:18:51.955 --> 01:18:56.740
pounding in the head, nothing. Like and they're gonna do again and again and again and again.
1084
01:18:57.440 --> 01:19:04.165
It it all like the professionals are trading 6 they were at the peak of the the S and P. They were trading 62
1085
01:19:04.945 --> 01:19:06.245
times revenue.
1086
01:19:07.025 --> 01:19:14.760
Okay? Like And I I see, like, 2 categories. Either the people who who do learn after getting wrecked and who, you know,
1087
01:19:15.460 --> 01:19:21.160
go down the right path of Bitcoin. And then the others who, as you say, are the repeat offenders.
1088
01:19:21.685 --> 01:19:24.344
And those people, the only way they learn is just by
1089
01:19:24.885 --> 01:19:29.145
or the only way they stop having an effect on the market is by not having any capital left.
1090
01:19:29.730 --> 01:19:30.230
And
1091
01:19:31.010 --> 01:19:35.429
then there's like the 3rd category of the people who are actually profiting off of all of this,
1092
01:19:35.730 --> 01:19:43.885
and they are accumulating capital off of this. And so There's a lot of smart people, man. Some of these guys are, like, absolutely brilliant.
1093
01:19:45.190 --> 01:19:58.235
The the the only thing that stops them is running out of users, right, of either the people have run out of capital and the money has all shit and changed hands or everyone else has run away and gone to Bitcoin. And that's, you know,
1094
01:19:58.615 --> 01:20:02.395
the the the pyramid is over. But I think the the pyramid is only,
1095
01:20:02.775 --> 01:20:03.275
sadly,
1096
01:20:03.790 --> 01:20:04.930
beginning. And,
1097
01:20:05.390 --> 01:20:07.250
I'm almost at the stage of, like,
1098
01:20:07.710 --> 01:20:13.010
we just have to ignore it and pretend it's not happening. And as you said, like, being our own echo chamber,
1099
01:20:13.534 --> 01:20:22.994
like, it's okay if Celsius becomes huge and, like, hundreds of thousands of people get rexed. We were telling them not to do that, and we just it's okay.
1100
01:20:23.920 --> 01:20:31.780
I I feel like mister Huddle on on Twitter. I'm not gonna dox his main stuff. Like, it it's kind of like that spinning thing that they had on Interstellar.
1101
01:20:32.615 --> 01:20:36.155
You know, he's been right since as far as I know him. Right?
1102
01:20:36.615 --> 01:20:37.675
Both attitude
1103
01:20:38.455 --> 01:20:52.585
and about shit coins, about all, everything. Right? So like, you know, he's like, listen, why are you trying to, why are you spending your energy trying to convince these people? Like you're not gonna convince a person that wants 20 x, you know, like, whatever. Like, just
1104
01:20:53.284 --> 01:20:58.744
just embrace. Let it fold flow through you. Right? Like, it is what it is. But you see, this is where,
1105
01:20:59.440 --> 01:21:04.739
I I reject his nihilism because I think there's a spectrum. And so at the margin, there are people
1106
01:21:05.040 --> 01:21:05.540
who,
1107
01:21:05.920 --> 01:21:07.219
will listen to reason,
1108
01:21:07.935 --> 01:21:10.595
either because they've gotten wrecked or because,
1109
01:21:11.055 --> 01:21:21.409
you know, they're smart enough to kind of learn the easy way of actually listening to Bitcoin Max's. And I know that because I ran this Twitter poll once of, hey, Bitcoin maximalist.
1110
01:21:21.789 --> 01:21:27.455
How many of you used to be shit corners? It It was like 80% of them used to be shit corners. Right? So, like, obviously,
1111
01:21:27.835 --> 01:21:32.895
there is a path. But I also agree with Mr. Hoddle that, like, big picture,
1112
01:21:33.360 --> 01:21:35.220
there's going to be,
1113
01:21:35.760 --> 01:21:36.900
you know, irredeemable
1114
01:21:37.200 --> 01:21:39.060
folks who just cannot learn.
1115
01:21:39.840 --> 01:21:47.155
I like, I specifically had I had I had multiple people reach out saying that they got out of Celsius because I wouldn't shut the fuck up.
1116
01:21:47.670 --> 01:21:53.050
And it used to be called a Ponzi even on, like, Clubhouse. Like, Clubhouse was interesting this last
1117
01:21:53.670 --> 01:21:58.475
peak cycle because, like, it was, like, you know, essentially capitalized normies. Right?
1118
01:21:58.775 --> 01:22:06.949
So it was a very, like, different kind of demographic. It was, like, say, like, 30 to 40 with money to spend on investments. Nothing like crazy, but, like,
1119
01:22:07.250 --> 01:22:08.869
which is not the norm on Twitter.
1120
01:22:09.329 --> 01:22:17.445
And, like, you could hear, like, people selling Celsius and then and then you could hear people saying Celsius is a scam, and it was fascinating to watch.
1121
01:22:18.625 --> 01:22:45.920
And and, you know, a lot of people there did get saved by people saying it was a Ponzi, but All I can say is a lot of people lucked out that SPF decided to save BlockFi because Right. It would have been a lot worse. I I think the the question that people should ought to ask themselves is where does the yield comes from? It should be a t shirt, should be a sticker. Where does the yield come from? I think it's too bad that SPF bailed out BlockFi. I I think that it would have been better for him not to.
1122
01:22:46.540 --> 01:22:47.040
Now
1123
01:22:47.385 --> 01:22:53.725
because he's a crypto bro, like, it would have been worse for him. Right? Because he needs to keep the dream alive. He was exposed.
1124
01:22:54.105 --> 01:22:58.780
For for in terms of, like, the truth and, you know, long term
1125
01:22:59.160 --> 01:23:00.940
benefit of the users,
1126
01:23:01.560 --> 01:23:07.378
it would have been good for them to get wrecked and to to, you know, have a wake up call. But I
1127
01:23:08.425 --> 01:23:09.405
fundamentally, like,
1128
01:23:09.784 --> 01:23:11.165
people are like, oh, look,
1129
01:23:11.704 --> 01:23:19.330
borrowing and lending Bitcoin, it's the free market. Right? Okay. Yeah. Sure. The problem is that in order for you to actually
1130
01:23:19.870 --> 01:23:20.610
be competent
1131
01:23:20.989 --> 01:23:22.690
at borrowing and lending Bitcoin,
1132
01:23:23.225 --> 01:23:27.805
And same thing with market making or trading. Like, you have to be a professional
1133
01:23:28.265 --> 01:23:31.805
and, like, only, like, you know, the top, you know, 1% or whatever
1134
01:23:32.320 --> 01:23:33.700
are good enough to actually
1135
01:23:34.080 --> 01:23:43.545
measure credit risk and things like that. And then it's such a new market. I don't think those people even exist. And so, like, there there's just no history
1136
01:23:44.324 --> 01:23:49.700
of credit in Bitcoin to base your models on, and the transparency
1137
01:23:50.160 --> 01:23:55.140
is nonexistent. It's fully opaque. And on top of that, somebody like BlockFi,
1138
01:23:55.815 --> 01:24:00.954
when you lend your coins to them, maybe you did your due diligence and they everything was great.
1139
01:24:01.335 --> 01:24:04.074
And then a month later, they changed their terms of service.
1140
01:24:04.489 --> 01:24:28.370
They go and make a stupid loan to, you know, 3 arrows capital, and you don't know about it because you already did your due diligence a month ago and you already lent your Bitcoin, and then they blow up. So it's like, not only you have to do your due diligence once, you have to do it every day. Every day that you're lending to them, you have to do the due diligence over again. It's it's just it it's not scalable. It's a horrible product experience.
1141
01:24:28.815 --> 01:24:35.635
And I like, compared to just putting your Bitcoin on in cold storage and just, you know, living your life,
1142
01:24:36.449 --> 01:24:38.630
and not being a 247 credit analyst,
1143
01:24:39.090 --> 01:24:39.989
it's just incomparable.
1144
01:24:41.330 --> 01:24:50.655
And BlockFi was the pros. You know. They were they they're all from Wall Street. They're pro but on the old paradigms, like, this is, like, Bitcoin's kind of a new paradigm in terms of, like, is their yield? Is their lending?
1145
01:24:51.130 --> 01:24:53.390
I let them a few years before and I'm like
1146
01:24:54.170 --> 01:24:57.790
I asked them, like, where does the yield come from? They just sort of look at me like,
1147
01:24:58.385 --> 01:25:03.525
we just manage our treasuries well, like, you know, like, yeah, okay, great.
1148
01:25:03.985 --> 01:25:07.365
So you're producing Bitcoin out of thin air, and all like
1149
01:25:07.929 --> 01:25:09.389
it's it's such a
1150
01:25:09.929 --> 01:25:13.389
it's idiotic, but you know it is what it is. Alright,
1151
01:25:13.850 --> 01:25:26.260
I'll be the Bitcoin lightning app for your browser. So this app, it's an extension in your browser that lets you find out if there's websites that support lightning some sense for payments, for subscriptions, for whatever.
1152
01:25:27.040 --> 01:25:33.300
The issue is, extensions can see everything you do on the web, and this is a Bitcoin extension essentially.
1153
01:25:34.865 --> 01:25:41.525
So it's like, I don't know how I feel about it. I love the idea, I just don't like the idea of extensions being able to see everything.
1154
01:25:42.230 --> 01:25:44.090
I thought it was interesting. Like,
1155
01:25:44.630 --> 01:25:46.650
I like the idea, obviously,
1156
01:25:47.670 --> 01:25:48.170
restricted
1157
01:25:48.630 --> 01:25:51.205
in terms of how much money you put at risk on this thing.
1158
01:25:51.685 --> 01:25:59.785
But it does give a great experience. Like if you want to just tip people online, if they even got, as an example, let's say you have Albie with some sass in there.
1159
01:26:00.320 --> 01:26:02.420
You can connect it to your own note if you choose.
1160
01:26:02.720 --> 01:26:23.970
And you can, it can read if somebody has the lightning emoji and the lightning address. So it just kind of, it's like a nice way to go around. So as an example, if Brave, the browser has a shitcoin in it, you don't have to use that. Or in the same way that we might copy paste each other like a lightning invoice inside signal, you don't have to use the signal shit coin, you can use Bitcoin. So it's kind of, it's interesting in that way that it might
1161
01:26:24.275 --> 01:26:28.295
reduce the friction. But yes, definitely. There are, you know, security
1162
01:26:28.595 --> 01:26:29.895
aspects that have to be
1163
01:26:30.195 --> 01:26:31.050
grappled with.
1164
01:26:31.929 --> 01:26:39.949
Alright. I mean, that's unsolvable because the No. It is solvable. No. No. No. I no. It is totally solvable. But they need to scan the web page to see
1165
01:26:40.685 --> 01:26:44.625
if there's places where you can pay. No. What we need is
1166
01:26:45.324 --> 01:26:45.824
browsers,
1167
01:26:46.284 --> 01:26:46.784
vendors
1168
01:26:47.165 --> 01:26:47.905
to support
1169
01:26:48.900 --> 01:26:52.920
the URIs correctly. If they were supporting the URIs correctly,
1170
01:26:53.620 --> 01:26:56.440
the browser doesn't have to expose the whole page
1171
01:26:57.125 --> 01:26:59.225
to the extension. It could just
1172
01:26:59.765 --> 01:27:03.385
show the URI that is present on that page.
1173
01:27:03.765 --> 01:27:05.465
This is really just a poor implementation
1174
01:27:05.845 --> 01:27:07.100
all around browsers.
1175
01:27:07.960 --> 01:27:09.900
It's totally doable in a reasonable
1176
01:27:10.200 --> 01:27:15.980
non crazy way. It's gonna get there. It's not their fault though. It's not Alby's fault. It's it's Chrome's fault. It's
1177
01:27:16.505 --> 01:27:21.325
Safari's fault. What do you think about the idea of, like, the impervious team to, like, ship a full browser?
1178
01:27:21.705 --> 01:27:22.765
I think it's idiotic.
1179
01:27:23.700 --> 01:27:26.360
Love them. I love people trying it, but, like,
1180
01:27:26.739 --> 01:27:32.280
a a modern browser is, like, 1,000,000 and 1,000,000 and 1,000,000 and 1,000,000 of lines of code.
1181
01:27:33.114 --> 01:27:38.815
It's a monumentally large project that needs to be done by a monumentally well capitalized entity,
1182
01:27:39.434 --> 01:27:44.230
and it needs a proper sort of, like, way of looking at how to raise that capital.
1183
01:27:45.490 --> 01:27:54.185
The the challenge is, like, what they're gonna end up doing I don't know about them. Just sort of thinking here is, like, they're gonna probably use, like, you know, either Chromium or
1184
01:27:54.745 --> 01:27:56.525
They're building on top of Firefox.
1185
01:27:57.030 --> 01:27:59.610
Yeah. Which is Like, Brave Brave used Chromium.
1186
01:28:00.310 --> 01:28:07.415
Chromium. Right? Like, it it's essential like, didn't Google sort of, like didn't Firefox replace their core stuff with Google stuff?
1187
01:28:07.715 --> 01:28:31.445
I think they did. But Firefox as it was doesn't exist anymore, I I think. I I can't remember. I don't follow browsers anymore. What it basically is is it's like one of the office shelf browsers, but there's a default web app running. Like, that's what you see when you load up the previous browser. That's it shows you a default web app instead of the, you know, the the welcome screen you see. And but then they can also run like a daemon in the background, which is how they do their
1188
01:28:32.500 --> 01:28:47.575
decentralized identity stuff. So that's the one benefit they have of of, and I I think they can have, like, a they could have a lightning node running in the browser too, like, in the background. I don't know if they actually do that yet, but so it's just they have the ability to run a daemon. But, yeah, the browser itself, they they can't really modify too much.
1189
01:28:49.429 --> 01:28:51.530
Okay. So I digress. It's not idiotic.
1190
01:28:52.150 --> 01:28:53.290
I think it's like,
1191
01:28:53.670 --> 01:28:54.570
it's a very,
1192
01:28:54.935 --> 01:28:56.954
very difficult thing to achieve
1193
01:28:57.415 --> 01:29:03.594
in the in the actual end goal if you're not like some massive entity just because it's so much cold to write,
1194
01:29:04.054 --> 01:29:04.554
and
1195
01:29:04.920 --> 01:29:08.620
web technologies are like Swiss cheese, right? Like it's just
1196
01:29:09.400 --> 01:29:11.900
holes everywhere, it's very difficult to secure,
1197
01:29:12.265 --> 01:29:16.445
You know, even Google being Google, there is like 0 day exploits.
1198
01:29:17.065 --> 01:29:25.070
Then there's one interesting thing that's kind of a little bit of a side thing. There's a there's a there's a a really interesting open source project called Serenity OS,
1199
01:29:25.370 --> 01:29:32.975
which one guy, just started writing for fun about 4 years ago. And now it's like a full operating system. He wrote the entire thing himself, including
1200
01:29:33.355 --> 01:29:56.760
an entire browser implementation. So he reimplemented JavaScript, HTML, CSS, absolutely everything from scratch. And now they just he just implemented he just released this as like a a kind of electron app type thing. So it is interesting that you can build a like, basically, a few people built that browser and it's not really up to snuff yet. But it's it's kind of an interest it's an inspiring story about a few motivated people can do in open source. You know? Like, they did build a like Temple OS.
1201
01:29:57.140 --> 01:30:14.630
Yeah. Yeah. It's like Temple OS, but it's actually kinda getting there. It's a it's a cool one. But they built a whole browser. But isn't there, like, actually a massive, like, isn't there still, like, a big security risk? Like, I mean, there's, like, massive. There's, like Well, especially when money's involved. Vulnerabilities put out in Chrome and Firefox all the time. Right? Yeah. How would they keep this thing secure?
1202
01:30:15.090 --> 01:30:17.670
You know? It it's brutal, guys. Like, the the
1203
01:30:18.050 --> 01:30:24.925
the the browser game is absolutely remember, the browser was not designed to any of the stuff that it does in modern days.
1204
01:30:25.625 --> 01:30:30.845
Well, you hear about remote remote code execution. Right? That's a the worst thing that can happen in software. Right?
1205
01:30:31.470 --> 01:30:35.330
That's kind of what a browser is. That's literally what a browser is.
1206
01:30:36.030 --> 01:30:49.795
Yes. It's like an environment for remote code execution. It downloads code over the inter Internet and executes it. So it's really insane the job that a browser attempts to perform. And, you know, you have 2 you could have 2 web apps with 222
1207
01:30:50.335 --> 01:31:01.425
tabs. One is for one bank and one is for other, and they can't steal from each other. It's kind of an insane thing that they accomplished that, you know, that works at all. Yeah. It's, and sometimes they do steal from each other.
1208
01:31:02.605 --> 01:31:04.465
That's the problem with browse. Yep.
1209
01:31:06.060 --> 01:31:06.560
Alright.
1210
01:31:07.100 --> 01:31:09.440
So the the tornado cash guy,
1211
01:31:10.140 --> 01:31:14.320
he's appeal essentially, they're selling all his crap now. The guy's screwed.
1212
01:31:14.785 --> 01:31:15.825
I doubt that,
1213
01:31:16.705 --> 01:31:22.805
that this guy's gonna get off because again what a lot of people don't realize is that the legal system
1214
01:31:23.730 --> 01:31:25.030
agree or don't agree
1215
01:31:25.650 --> 01:31:26.949
is very well designed,
1216
01:31:27.890 --> 01:31:30.150
especially after Al Capone and crew
1217
01:31:31.355 --> 01:31:33.295
to to go after all your crap,
1218
01:31:34.395 --> 01:31:36.415
you know, if they don't like you.
1219
01:31:37.435 --> 01:31:38.975
You know? So like
1220
01:31:39.770 --> 01:31:44.430
if you were running a project like that and you somehow took any financial
1221
01:31:44.969 --> 01:31:46.830
gains from from the project,
1222
01:31:47.575 --> 01:31:51.755
they will try to go after that, and they will use that to go after all your stuff. It's it's unfortunate,
1223
01:31:52.695 --> 01:31:54.555
you know, privacy projects to have
1224
01:31:55.030 --> 01:31:55.850
very large,
1225
01:31:56.390 --> 01:31:59.690
install base like they were doing, they will suffer
1226
01:32:00.230 --> 01:32:01.530
the state's ire.
1227
01:32:01.965 --> 01:32:07.345
Regardless if it's correct or incorrect or even if the state is correct legally, they'll find a way.
1228
01:32:08.445 --> 01:32:13.889
So the best we can all do is have decentralized projects that don't have coordinators
1229
01:32:14.829 --> 01:32:18.130
because that is a massive, massive hole.
1230
01:32:20.554 --> 01:32:25.675
I think Matt doesn't have anything to say about privacy. But in this case in this case,
1231
01:32:26.870 --> 01:32:30.170
I just wanna be clear. I mean, there was no centralized coordinator
1232
01:32:31.510 --> 01:32:34.570
on Tornado Cash. Like Yeah. But he might have been taking
1233
01:32:35.385 --> 01:32:43.725
He was. Fees? They had a shitcoin attached to it. Well, there you go. Like, you're profiting from crime. That's the way they define it. I think it's more of a lesson in
1234
01:32:44.270 --> 01:32:46.770
in in developer OPSEC. Right?
1235
01:32:48.190 --> 01:32:50.449
I don't think you can keep your OPSEC perfect,
1236
01:32:50.829 --> 01:32:54.375
like, to this extent. I think that the key here is not to take
1237
01:32:54.755 --> 01:32:55.255
profit
1238
01:32:55.875 --> 01:32:56.375
from
1239
01:32:57.554 --> 01:32:59.094
the essential mixing.
1240
01:32:59.475 --> 01:33:08.670
I think that that is the same. I I just think the the the problem with with this logic is that it could be interpreted to be like,
1241
01:33:08.975 --> 01:33:10.835
oh, if you are holding Bitcoin,
1242
01:33:11.215 --> 01:33:16.835
by extension, you are profiting from people money laundering because that is increasing the value of your Bitcoin.
1243
01:33:17.295 --> 01:33:18.114
And therefore,
1244
01:33:19.250 --> 01:33:29.335
what's to stop them? You say no. You're not the supreme court. You're you don't get to decide. Like, I am not like, I I Pierre, I don't I don't disagree with you in logic, but I just don't think they would move it to that extent
1245
01:33:29.875 --> 01:33:31.494
just because it becomes too broad.
1246
01:33:31.954 --> 01:33:34.215
I think that it is entirely at their discretion.
1247
01:33:35.155 --> 01:33:43.050
So, you know, if the wrong treasury secretary is in office, if the wrong president's in office, if somebody does the wrong thing with Bitcoin
1248
01:33:43.645 --> 01:33:51.264
and, you know, the Fiat bros get triggered and they want to do as big of a crackdown as they can. Now granted, I think that at this point,
1249
01:33:52.130 --> 01:33:52.530
the
1250
01:33:53.010 --> 01:33:54.710
it it would be so politically unpopular
1251
01:33:55.490 --> 01:34:00.815
that, yeah, I I think that it's So this is how you win. Right? You win by by having
1252
01:34:01.375 --> 01:34:06.995
them having the same bags as you do. That's one thing. You also win by fighting,
1253
01:34:07.710 --> 01:34:17.085
for every little inch. Right? And so I think that those are great. I while I have zero interest in Ethereum or Tornado Cash, I think it's fantastic
1254
01:34:17.864 --> 01:34:26.270
that they are fighting this in in court, and they're fighting for every inch here because that puts that much more distance between,
1255
01:34:27.050 --> 01:34:32.830
the Fiat Bros and our lovely orange coin. So I think it's it's great. But yeah. I I
1256
01:34:33.864 --> 01:34:38.764
yeah, I'll leave it there. Yeah. I think the problem is, like, we agree on everything here.
1257
01:34:39.465 --> 01:34:41.244
What I'm trying to say is
1258
01:34:41.780 --> 01:34:44.040
when you have a very direct and obvious
1259
01:34:44.420 --> 01:34:47.560
sort of thing, like, you know, at least in their view, in their very,
1260
01:34:48.100 --> 01:34:50.120
you know, ignorant view of software,
1261
01:34:50.705 --> 01:34:51.364
You are
1262
01:34:51.744 --> 01:34:54.804
running the thing that does directly
1263
01:34:55.505 --> 01:34:56.885
sort of like make this,
1264
01:34:57.344 --> 01:34:58.900
you know, like illegal
1265
01:34:59.280 --> 01:35:09.275
activity happen and you're directly taking profit from that where they can go and say, like, look, from this wallet to this wallet You've just described you've just described Bitcoin mining as well, arguably.
1266
01:35:09.655 --> 01:35:18.420
Right? That, hey. The transaction fees from this mixing service are being paid to this minor that's including the trans right? Like,
1267
01:35:18.880 --> 01:35:30.265
I agree with you. That's the logic they're using. They're trying to use this logic. I'll put it that way because This is what I'm saying. It's like I am not defending the logic. I'm just saying that that's the logic they need. Should be fought.
1268
01:35:30.690 --> 01:35:33.590
No. It's the that's the logic they're trying to use here.
1269
01:35:33.969 --> 01:35:34.469
Yeah.
1270
01:35:35.250 --> 01:35:37.429
And this guy is not in US. Right?
1271
01:35:37.969 --> 01:35:39.510
Yeah. It's worse in Europe.
1272
01:35:39.845 --> 01:35:42.985
Like, it's worse in Europe than in the US for sure. Exactly.
1273
01:35:43.445 --> 01:35:55.699
So, like, listen. It's what I'm trying to say is, you know, this is the world we have, we should fight it, but this is the world we have. So, like, this guy is in a jurisdiction that that he did
1274
01:35:56.665 --> 01:36:00.925
as they are describing, crossed the line, and they're trying to go after that. They're clearly succeeding.
1275
01:36:01.625 --> 01:36:05.325
I hope I hope that people fighting it win, but, like,
1276
01:36:06.320 --> 01:36:11.380
realistically speaking, he should have sick some, like, you know, legal advice before he chose the design.
1277
01:36:11.760 --> 01:36:19.344
To be clear, the the real fight that's happening is, like, Coin Center is suing the US Treasury. Like, they're suing Janet Yellen specifically,
1278
01:36:20.750 --> 01:36:22.050
because the OFAC
1279
01:36:22.590 --> 01:36:27.409
OFAC, an American organization, put him on the sanction list, and that's why the Netherlands arrested him.
1280
01:36:28.505 --> 01:36:38.410
So, like, the the court case over in the Netherlands is, like, him just arguing over with, like, the then we had the puppets rather than fighting the master, and that's why coin center's fighting it in the US.
1281
01:36:39.750 --> 01:36:43.449
It's a it's a very uncomfortable thing to have your country
1282
01:36:43.935 --> 01:36:46.675
sort of, like, dictating how I am in a different country,
1283
01:36:47.535 --> 01:36:51.395
what I can and can't do. It's kinda funny because, like, in Canada, you can ship to Cuba
1284
01:36:52.300 --> 01:36:57.840
in all products and stuff. Like, in, you know, we we can have Cuban products. Right? Are you shipping to Cuba?
1285
01:36:58.620 --> 01:37:16.820
Yeah. We can ship to Cuba. But people are buying it from Cuba, or is that not allowed to not no comment? I'm not gonna discuss customer Okay. Alright. Purchases. But Look it up in your database. Look up, in your marketing ways. We have to take we have to take it super seriously. Right? Because if we have products going to places that have sanction lists, right,
1286
01:37:17.295 --> 01:37:19.635
like, you could really, like, be in trouble,
1287
01:37:20.255 --> 01:37:22.434
and and our goal is not to be in trouble.
1288
01:37:23.695 --> 01:37:27.530
You know what I mean? I don't wanna be a marcher. I I want somebody else to be a martyr.
1289
01:37:27.910 --> 01:37:30.890
Tornado Cash. Yeah. Got it. Thank you, Shitcoiner.
NOTE
Transcription provided by Podhome.fm
Created: 3/17/2024 4:22:35 PM
Duration: 7612.735
Channels: 1
1
00:00:07.965 --> 00:00:10.465
2
00:00:12.205 --> 00:00:18.080
The podcast where we fail at boringly reading the latest release notes and discuss project updates.
3
00:00:21.099 --> 00:00:22.880
We are back with the list,
4
00:00:23.765 --> 00:00:24.165
and,
5
00:00:24.565 --> 00:00:27.145
I have a I have a big crew here today.
6
00:00:27.765 --> 00:00:30.185
We have, Pierre Richard. Hi, Pierre.
7
00:00:30.619 --> 00:00:34.800
Hello. Thanks for having me on. We have Justin Moon. Hi, Justin.
8
00:00:35.340 --> 00:00:35.840
9
00:00:36.460 --> 00:00:40.695
10
00:00:41.155 --> 00:00:43.094
11
00:00:43.475 --> 00:00:45.970
12
00:00:46.750 --> 00:00:47.250
master
13
00:00:47.950 --> 00:00:51.650
who's a great guest of the show, Matt Adel.
14
00:00:53.150 --> 00:00:53.650
Yo.
15
00:00:54.515 --> 00:00:56.775
Nice to have you guys. Thanks thanks for coming.
16
00:00:57.715 --> 00:01:01.095
And I was just saying, I I broke the website just before this,
17
00:01:01.715 --> 00:01:03.320
so, I'm fixing it,
18
00:01:04.280 --> 00:01:04.680
and,
19
00:01:05.080 --> 00:01:09.580
I guess everybody got the show notes. I hope it's in this wonderful
20
00:01:10.360 --> 00:01:11.659
Google docs today.
21
00:01:12.885 --> 00:01:14.345
So yeah, we have
22
00:01:14.805 --> 00:01:17.385
a very, very full list today, and
23
00:01:18.165 --> 00:01:22.409
I just wanted to get a couple of coin kite house kippings here out of the way.
24
00:01:22.790 --> 00:01:24.409
Black Friday is coming.
25
00:01:24.790 --> 00:01:25.990
This is a message for,
26
00:01:26.630 --> 00:01:28.330
product and service makers.
27
00:01:29.405 --> 00:01:37.860
If you have a product or service that you want to advertise for Black Friday with some sale, just, ping the the folks in our team. It's a bitcoin
28
00:01:38.640 --> 00:01:39.140
Friday
29
00:01:40.159 --> 00:01:40.900
no. Bitcoinblackfriday.org.
30
00:01:42.880 --> 00:01:44.400
We're also looking for,
31
00:01:44.799 --> 00:01:45.940
other topics
32
00:01:46.895 --> 00:01:50.915
for the the panel version of this podcast like we did with the wallets.
33
00:01:52.415 --> 00:01:52.915
And,
34
00:01:53.455 --> 00:02:03.189
oh, and this one is just a quick note. The Bitcoin binary dotorg bot is not working well. So if you love creating shell scripts for GitHub actions,
35
00:02:03.815 --> 00:02:04.695
do hit me,
36
00:02:05.095 --> 00:02:08.795
because I do need help with that and I don't have time to deal with GitHub actions.
37
00:02:09.255 --> 00:02:12.010
So, we are looking for some help there. Anyways,
38
00:02:13.270 --> 00:02:13.770
so,
39
00:02:14.390 --> 00:02:17.210
I figure we we just kinda go straight into the list
40
00:02:17.510 --> 00:02:18.010
since
41
00:02:18.445 --> 00:02:20.385
since we didn't start a good batter today.
42
00:02:21.005 --> 00:02:24.785
43
00:02:25.245 --> 00:02:26.145
showing his
44
00:02:26.525 --> 00:02:27.025
projects,
45
00:02:28.220 --> 00:02:33.680
I believe me and Stefan are at have been at the Amsterdam conference for the last 2 days,
46
00:02:34.379 --> 00:02:40.474
and I believe Justin is at TabConf right now. That's correct. Pierre, which conference are you at?
47
00:02:40.775 --> 00:02:41.595
48
00:02:42.295 --> 00:02:44.935
Just doing a Bitcoin 101 with,
49
00:02:45.254 --> 00:02:46.235
different folks.
50
00:02:46.570 --> 00:02:47.710
51
00:02:48.570 --> 00:02:50.510
Productive people don't go to conferences.
52
00:02:51.050 --> 00:02:56.075
53
00:02:56.955 --> 00:02:59.535
54
00:03:00.235 --> 00:03:01.295
there are no
55
00:03:01.595 --> 00:03:02.495
cyber hornets.
56
00:03:03.060 --> 00:03:07.320
Pierre is all the accounts on Twitter. He literally runs Twitter.
57
00:03:07.780 --> 00:03:12.360
58
00:03:12.985 --> 00:03:17.085
Anyone who's synonymous, you just probably safe to assume it's my account.
59
00:03:17.465 --> 00:03:18.765
60
00:03:19.065 --> 00:03:22.125
61
00:03:22.730 --> 00:03:24.590
62
00:03:28.170 --> 00:03:28.990
Alright, guys.
63
00:03:29.530 --> 00:03:31.230
Let's start with the software releases
64
00:03:31.555 --> 00:03:32.775
and project updates.
65
00:03:33.314 --> 00:03:34.614
Fully noted, version
66
00:03:34.995 --> 00:03:35.495
0.3.4,
67
00:03:38.594 --> 00:03:44.020
and I guess the other and also we missed in the in between the the shows 0.3.5.
68
00:03:46.160 --> 00:03:48.180
Total balance view no longer refreshes
69
00:03:49.705 --> 00:03:50.765
when navigating back.
70
00:03:51.225 --> 00:03:53.325
Join market connect QR, that's nice.
71
00:03:53.865 --> 00:03:55.325
Add a join market placeholders
72
00:03:56.425 --> 00:03:57.805
to the SSL certs,
73
00:03:59.370 --> 00:04:00.190
and enhancement
74
00:04:01.370 --> 00:04:07.550
in older versions, multisig NFC imports not offered if a micro SD card was
75
00:04:08.235 --> 00:04:09.435
really there, I think.
76
00:04:11.114 --> 00:04:12.175
For 0.35,
77
00:04:14.155 --> 00:04:15.455
much improved UX
78
00:04:15.915 --> 00:04:16.735
around exporting,
79
00:04:18.630 --> 00:04:19.130
and,
80
00:04:19.510 --> 00:04:20.010
fixes,
81
00:04:20.550 --> 00:04:26.090
fixes a bug where LND would only show fees collected from the last 100HL
82
00:04:27.224 --> 00:04:27.544
t l
83
00:04:28.345 --> 00:04:28.845
HTLC
84
00:04:30.025 --> 00:04:30.525
events.
85
00:04:31.944 --> 00:04:35.645
Do you guys use, fully noted everyday for everything?
86
00:04:36.830 --> 00:04:40.289
87
00:04:41.629 --> 00:04:49.755
88
00:04:51.415 --> 00:04:52.235
Big upgrades.
89
00:04:53.449 --> 00:04:53.949
90
00:04:55.050 --> 00:04:59.949
91
00:05:00.415 --> 00:05:03.555
I met him in Miami this year. Yeah. Fontaine is great.
92
00:05:04.015 --> 00:05:08.115
93
00:05:08.415 --> 00:05:10.580
Bitcoin NFC on the apps, with codecard.
94
00:05:11.760 --> 00:05:13.380
Okay. So Spectre
95
00:05:14.400 --> 00:05:14.900
desktop
96
00:05:15.600 --> 00:05:16.740
version 1.13
97
00:05:17.920 --> 00:05:19.220
feature so improve
98
00:05:19.835 --> 00:05:22.815
dev console, menu extensions can extend to menus now,
99
00:05:23.514 --> 00:05:27.775
adding open Bitcoin app verbiage to ledger, upload keys,
100
00:05:28.630 --> 00:05:29.850
better balance display,
101
00:05:30.950 --> 00:05:32.970
do not hide elements by default,
102
00:05:33.430 --> 00:05:34.550
individual hard,
103
00:05:34.950 --> 00:05:37.370
HWI progress for ledger devices.
104
00:05:39.785 --> 00:05:50.740
105
00:05:51.120 --> 00:05:54.659
devices. It can be a bit confusing for new users or if you're not familiar.
106
00:05:55.074 --> 00:06:12.025
But I know Salvatore Ingala is trying to, you know, improve the Bitcoin situation there over at Ledger and make things like better multi sig support and things like this. There was some interesting commentary from him, today about registering the multi sig quorum and things like that. Oh, I saw his BIP. Oh, yeah? Yeah. He he definitely he wants to improve,
107
00:06:14.185 --> 00:06:15.965
108
00:06:16.824 --> 00:06:21.000
109
00:06:22.500 --> 00:06:36.185
like, you buy a ledger because you wanna hold 1 of the 1,000 shit coins they support. Oh, a 100%. Like, if you're not Yeah. If you don't just go Bitcoin only, you just can't you'll never solve that UX hurdle of of needing to, you know, click into the Bitcoin section.
110
00:06:36.680 --> 00:06:37.180
111
00:06:38.199 --> 00:06:38.699
yeah.
112
00:06:39.080 --> 00:06:43.340
I mean, you can still use Ledger, I guess, like, with with, like, other clients. Right?
113
00:06:43.775 --> 00:06:45.875
But, but if you're using Ledger,
114
00:06:47.455 --> 00:06:48.195
it's essentially
115
00:06:48.895 --> 00:06:51.475
it's like a a one button of Shaquen Casino.
116
00:06:52.410 --> 00:06:58.270
It's it's like, it just downloads, like, click here, buy Bitcoin. You know? Like,
117
00:06:59.130 --> 00:07:01.765
but, you know, like, that that's what the market wants. Right?
118
00:07:02.725 --> 00:07:03.945
And, you know, it's okay.
119
00:07:04.325 --> 00:07:04.825
Okay.
120
00:07:05.845 --> 00:07:06.345
Nunchuk,
121
00:07:06.805 --> 00:07:07.305
1.9.14.
122
00:07:10.460 --> 00:07:13.040
They added, cold card NFC support,
123
00:07:13.420 --> 00:07:15.980
which they have subsequently sort of improved a bit,
124
00:07:17.260 --> 00:07:21.535
replaced by fee, ported to mobile, it was only on the desktop wallet.
125
00:07:22.235 --> 00:07:22.735
BIP21
126
00:07:23.355 --> 00:07:25.135
and CRUX QR support,
127
00:07:25.915 --> 00:07:27.295
new quick send shortcut,
128
00:07:28.110 --> 00:07:31.970
signing using air gap keys in colab wallets is now possible,
129
00:07:32.750 --> 00:07:34.690
copy to clipboard for addresses
130
00:07:35.229 --> 00:07:35.889
and txids,
131
00:07:37.025 --> 00:07:38.245
and, preferences
132
00:07:38.625 --> 00:07:39.605
of perf improvements.
133
00:07:40.785 --> 00:07:50.110
134
00:07:50.570 --> 00:08:12.705
I was even showing it to some of my friends in Bitcoin Dubai, just, you know, some of the the Maxi crew in Dubai, and I was showing them. They're they're pretty happy with the whole UX of NFC and TapCiner and Nunchuk. And, you know, I think it's really cool what they're doing. So, you know, it is a slightly different approach to what we've seen with the typical Electrum, Sparrow, Spectre style of multisig. So let's see, if that becomes more prominent.
135
00:08:13.165 --> 00:08:15.025
136
00:08:15.645 --> 00:08:22.530
there used to be this wallet. I think I mentioned this before here, but it it was one of my favorite phone wallets was called Copay until,
137
00:08:24.450 --> 00:08:27.725
until a BitPay bought them and destroyed them.
138
00:08:28.845 --> 00:08:37.110
It was still a JavaScript wallet. It still had, like, a lot of sort of issues around, like, too many inputs. Pod copay? Yep. They, acqui hired them.
139
00:08:37.510 --> 00:08:39.290
140
00:08:39.829 --> 00:08:46.630
141
00:08:47.095 --> 00:08:47.735
We were,
142
00:08:48.055 --> 00:08:50.795
I was hanging out with a bunch of Bitcoiners, like, 4 months ago,
143
00:08:51.254 --> 00:08:51.654
and,
144
00:08:52.295 --> 00:08:54.875
we stumbled on a on a no corner
145
00:08:55.339 --> 00:08:57.600
that wanted to download her first wallet.
146
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And he told her to download co pay, and I was like, what the fuck?
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149
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but but it was very good.
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Anyway, so what I what I like is, Hugo, which is the main maintainer and the founder of,
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Nunchuk,
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is taking the approach of
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collaborative multisig
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between,
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like, actual humans and parties, not, like, as a company kind of thing. It's so it's not like cousin and chain kind of thing. It's more like, hey, I wanna have a wallet between say Justin, me, and and Matt. Right?
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So one is there is encrypted comms,
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either using email or, my my request to him, which like, by the way, every single request I had for him for the last, like, year and a half now probably, that he incorporated within, like, 2 weeks. Like, it's amazing. I go on the DM. So, you know, like, I kinda need these features, like, boom, appears.
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Those guys are absolute beasts.
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So so anyway, so
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you can have a non email set up so you're not doxxing yourself. Mind you, you know, it's still, like, you know, they do use store,
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by default, I think.
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But but, you know, you're still trusting servers. You're still trusting, like, there's a level of trust with this. Just wanna put that caveat out there. But anyways, so you can actually start, you can create a new multisig wallet with
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the parties
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being remote.
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So you can you can you can do the quorum
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to consolidate the XPUBs and everything through the app,
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which is phenomenal,
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and then you have encrypted comms using the keys,
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which was also my request,
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so that you don't need to have a password and username or any of that crap,
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and you can sort of like talk to each other, coordinate,
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propose transactions.
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You know, a huge part of money is coordination. Right? So having that is is super cool. Yeah. I mean, it can't be overstated
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the built
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in comm layer is. Because, like, I've done multisigs with very experienced Bitcoiners and just pasting PSPTs
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and shit
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in matrix or some encrypted chat. Docs.
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It's also the worst UX ever. Yeah. Fucking annoyed. It's like, which part am I like, which one is partially signed by 1 key or 2 keys, and, like, you're it's a pain in the ass. So next, I I really want to, like, have somebody champion it. I definitely don't wanna do the work.
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comms protocol
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for wallets
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so that
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you can have an open sort of comm layer
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that, you know,
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don't know yet, it could be XMPP kind of thing, but, like, point is
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we need some open protocol for wallets to talk to each other because then it's not just within Nunchuck. Right? It would be, say, between Nunchuck
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and us,
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and some guys from the Shift crypto
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did the BSMS.
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So it's essentially like a a a
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you know, it's it's nothing, like, too crazy or too clever, like, but it's just like a way of standardizing
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backup files and setup files for multisig as well.
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So we are getting there, and that's the backup file that you do with Nunchuck.
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So with Nunchuck now you can do comms, you can do the collaboration,
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you can set up the stuff,
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and you can use the harder wallets with NFC,
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with SD card,
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and with USB
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on the desktop version of it.
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It's quite phenomenal. We just gifted them
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a batch of Nunchuk branded tap signers, so that, you know, I want them to sort of like, you know, push
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push that self custody, that kind of easy stuff,
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and I think, I think they're gonna have services soon.
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Anyways, like, fantastic work by those guys. I I really it's nice to see people trying to actually do new things.
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Alright.
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Electrum,
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4.3.2,
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when creating new requests reuse addresses
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of expired requests,
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index requests by ID instead of receiving address,
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trampoline routing,
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fix, sweep to local,
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output from channel backup,
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harden script for
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macOS
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binary, avoid using pre compiled wheels from PyPy,
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and
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the Windows app image Android binaries are now built using Debian.
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So
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I feel like Electrum is going, like, in a terrible wrong direction of UX.
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It it's like driving me nuts.
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You know, like, you you need extra clicks. There's extra buttons in the UI that don't really it's just it takes, like, 3, 4 windows to sign a transaction.
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I don't think LN should exist there,
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which is a shame because it's, like, it's the most sort of, like, OG,
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you know, one of the most OG wallets. I mean, it was the first wallet really,
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like, it was publicly made after Core,
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so it's kinda like annoying to see it go in this UX direction.
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Oh, and there is no more XFP information for wallets that exist, so you can't go and find the XFP
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information to make sure that the wallet is anyways, it's just it's driving me absolutely nuts.
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So if anybody from my lectern is there, I I appreciate the hard work you guys put in, but, you know,
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please,
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you know,
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make the UX simpler, don't get complicated.
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Do you any of you guys still use Electrum?
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and, yeah, it's
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it's it's a lot to do in in one piece of software to do,
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on chain and lightning. But I also think that I actually do like the idea of it.
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And then when I looked in the core in the code base,
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because it's in Python, I thought, well, maybe it'd be interesting to use their
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their Python
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lightning code as a library,
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and there's there's it's just not possible. It's all very hard coded in there.
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This is this is the challenge that Electrum always had is that, you know, it started when Bitcoin was
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much
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different. Right? It was even pre BIP 32. So,
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you know, like, it's just a a constantly sort of, like, added on kind of code base.
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It's it's, quite challenging to,
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256
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which are made, like, sort of, like, post a lot of things, it's still a Bitcoin sort of semi OG there. Right? Like,
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there is very few people out there who have the capacity to really build a wallet.
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It's it's surprisingly hard,
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but that's what the beauty of BDK, for example. Right? So we can have people who have a much better view of UX,
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a much better sort of, like,
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you know, like, intent in how to handle the transactions and all that stuff. But, you know, the the true hard part
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that is very sort of domain specific knowledge as well is done by BDK. So,
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you know, maybe the BDK part 4
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Taproot will be sort of
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like very good and or good enough, and and then that would be used as the base to to go forward with it. But it's,
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it's surprisingly hard,
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and maintaining it is even harder.
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And and that's what happens to a lot of wallets. Like, you know, people go and they build it and then, like, sort of, like, keeping up with the changes and keeping up with everything is
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it's not,
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it's not a photo sharing app
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building on Bitcoin.
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So we'll see if,
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to express fancy stuff that I don't really understand yet. And so these are, I think, these are two examples of Taproot natively.
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280
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but that's Lightning only. Right? Well, I think
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282
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sort of like written is for that software to be
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of quality
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and of notability
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and of enough reviews for people to put real money in it.
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That that bar is a very bar a very high bar to be crossed.
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You know, I have no doubt that the, you know, like, the Taro stuff is gonna be fantastic, but, like, I it's it's gonna take so long for people to trust it to put, like, real money in it as their Bitcoin wallet, not their Taro wallet. Yeah. Well, it's not really a Bitcoin wallet. That's the thing. There you go. Uses Bitcoin, but it's not a Bitcoin. You're not like, the asset you're storing is not Bitcoin, so it's it's kinda weird in that way.
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So so this sort of tried to say it's like, you know, I I kinda feel like I'm sigh sounding like that old grumpy man. You know, like, but the reality is when it comes to real money,
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the old grumpy man keep your money safe. Right? Like,
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I actually hope that this just inspires
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young people to be
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old grumpy man in mentality when they're building and they go build wallets.
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We do need that work to be done. It just can't be done as a sort of, like,
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you know, like, let's play thing kinda kinda deal.
295
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296
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Fountain,
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0 point 5.1,
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autoplay queue,
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Apple CarPlay,
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OPML
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import,
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performance upgrades.
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So I just wanted to to bring this up. I got a little bit of hate on Fountain because I I I was shitting on podcast 2.0
305
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or whatever they call it, the the value for value thing. A person literally
306
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tipped me and said
307
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that it feels weird to be tipping somebody who hates on that tip. I totally appreciate that.
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I think people get it wrong. It's just that, like, I absolutely
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love that.
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I just fail to see
311
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how that
312
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sort of scales because, you know, there's a reason why advertising model works is because, you know, users hate paying for things, but it doesn't mean I don't like it or I don't love it or I don't hope it doesn't happen.
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So anyway, so to that,
314
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to that listener who who did comment there, I did read it and and I do empathize with your comment. I just it's just complicated.
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But it is fun to to be there, and as I said this before, I absolutely love when people, like, send me a tip and and sort of say something. It it means more than just a comment.
316
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317
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318
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Let's say you have Joe Rogan's audience.
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Okay, so 11,000,000
320
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downloads
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on a single episode or something like that. Right?
322
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So
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let's say
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each person is giving 10 SATs.
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Right?
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So
327
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that's still very little money. You
328
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know, can somebody do the math quickly there on 10 sets times,
329
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11,000,000
330
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times,
331
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the current Bitcoin price?
332
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333
00:22:12.309 --> 00:22:12.809
is
334
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very few people get money, but the ones that do give large amounts of money. But they don't? I think it's yet to be seen.
335
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I hope it happens. The ad model is convenient, especially within the
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confines, like the constraints of the legacy system.
337
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The ad model is very profitable and very convenient.
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I I think people might be able to make more money, you know, going with a value for value model. It just hasn't been proven out yet. Sam Harris is pretty successful, and he's within the constraints of the traditional system. So I just ran the numbers, by the way. It's about so as an example,
339
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340
00:22:52.365 --> 00:22:54.865
sats, which at today's prices is about 21,288
341
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USD,
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343
00:23:07.365 --> 00:23:09.145
I feel like we can find
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like a much more interesting sort of middle ground there somewhere,
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right, where you have,
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say, resyndication
347
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for a buck. Right? So people create curated lists and they get paid for having those curated lists and they share that
348
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that with with the makers of the pods or, you know, the the advertising
349
00:23:29.044 --> 00:23:33.465
sort of placement could be much better and better sort of rerouted and better
350
00:23:34.390 --> 00:23:38.570
syndicated with lightning. Right? So that you have, like, better distribution of capital.
351
00:23:38.950 --> 00:23:47.205
There's, like, a lot of, like, other more complicated cool stuff that essentially, like, all the ad advertising markets on social media. Right? Could all be redone
352
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much better because there's no friction or cost on those transactions.
353
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It's just I feel like the the value for value is very similar to open source. Everybody uses the stuff but ends up never paying for it.
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So, like,
355
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I don't know. It's just challenging. I I think there will be a niche. I think some people will make money. Like, say,
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what's the name?
357
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The part 2.0?
358
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Adam Curry. Adam Curry. So Adam Curry does make a, you know, a proper living out of this stuff,
359
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but I think it's it's not gonna be, like,
360
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as wide
361
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as as people hope.
362
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But let's hope so. Let's hope it works.
363
00:24:31.370 --> 00:24:34.590
Please keep the tips coming. I do enjoy those sats. Okay?
364
00:24:38.325 --> 00:24:39.705
All right, so, Robosats,
365
00:24:41.045 --> 00:24:41.545
0.2.1,
366
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Dispatch includes the new book table component.
367
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This is the first alpha release with Android APK.
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Do you guys,
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use, Robosats?
370
00:24:57.515 --> 00:24:58.335
Matt does.
371
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372
00:25:04.460 --> 00:25:16.405
I met someone here in Amsterdam who just translated all their documentation to Chinese. Amazing. And he's looking for another Chinese speaking individual to proofread it. So if you're out there, hit me up. There you go.
373
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374
00:25:23.240 --> 00:25:24.860
I won't go through all the things,
375
00:25:25.915 --> 00:25:33.835
but that is the official release. Matt's last because you put your own update in 2 episodes in a row. Of course. Somebody has to pay for all this,
376
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all this production.
377
00:25:37.900 --> 00:25:39.520
So it's actually more stuff added.
378
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NFC enhancements, multi sig NFC import,
379
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NFC messaging, message signing,
380
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show address over NFC,
381
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and
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NFC
383
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message signing was important because Nunchuk needed to do
384
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health checks,
385
00:25:57.965 --> 00:26:01.184
so so that was recent, but it's gonna be on Nunchuck next release.
386
00:26:02.445 --> 00:26:03.825
The HSM enhancements,
387
00:26:04.429 --> 00:26:05.389
dynamic HSM,
388
00:26:05.710 --> 00:26:07.490
white listening, HSM policy
389
00:26:07.950 --> 00:26:09.889
hash display during first activation,
390
00:26:10.750 --> 00:26:13.730
ignores HSM commands over USB by default now.
391
00:26:14.735 --> 00:26:17.155
We're gonna probably remove the whole HSM stack,
392
00:26:17.855 --> 00:26:19.315
from main release
393
00:26:20.415 --> 00:26:27.710
unless people want it then they would just sort of activate it or have separate firmware, I don't know yet. Enhancements menu wrapping,
394
00:26:28.170 --> 00:26:31.310
this was a big one for me. Allow import of descriptors,
395
00:26:31.785 --> 00:26:35.485
A descriptor type specifies both internal external in a single string.
396
00:26:36.585 --> 00:26:39.965
Our ability to specify address format in the text file
397
00:26:40.549 --> 00:26:41.610
to be signed.
398
00:26:42.230 --> 00:26:44.809
If you guys have any questions, I'm happy to answer,
399
00:26:45.990 --> 00:26:48.570
otherwise I'll probably move to the next.
400
00:26:51.365 --> 00:26:51.865
Okay.
401
00:26:52.325 --> 00:26:53.545
So Embassy
402
00:26:54.405 --> 00:26:56.105
OS version 0.3.2,
403
00:26:58.160 --> 00:26:59.540
auto scrolling for logs,
404
00:27:00.400 --> 00:27:03.220
improved connect connectivity between browser and embassy,
405
00:27:03.920 --> 00:27:04.900
switch to postgres,
406
00:27:05.600 --> 00:27:06.900
for EOS database,
407
00:27:08.435 --> 00:27:09.655
multiple bug fixes,
408
00:27:11.315 --> 00:27:11.815
virus
409
00:27:12.435 --> 00:27:14.695
UI UX enhancements, removal of
410
00:27:15.770 --> 00:27:16.590
product keys.
411
00:27:18.170 --> 00:27:21.230
Anybody using Embassy OS right now? It's start 9. Right?
412
00:27:22.225 --> 00:27:23.125
There was way
413
00:27:25.825 --> 00:27:31.605
414
00:27:32.160 --> 00:27:48.645
415
00:27:50.370 --> 00:27:59.590
they did a lot of work, behind the scenes on that one. Yeah. So so what I have here is essentially the summary, which is the 6 items, and then there is, like,
416
00:28:00.515 --> 00:28:01.575
which they wrote,
417
00:28:02.115 --> 00:28:09.720
the highlights, and then there is a what's changed, which is, like, a 1000000 issues. So, like, in practical terms, what I heard from them, because I saw,
418
00:28:10.820 --> 00:28:13.400
419
00:28:14.500 --> 00:28:22.235
is that it it is a massive performance improvement and reliability improvement for, nodes that are running on Raspberry Pis.
420
00:28:22.669 --> 00:28:35.435
But what's also really interesting about star 9 star 9 is one of these node projects. Right? So, like, you can run a bunch of self hosted things on them Is they're about to release a in partnership with Purism, which is, like, a well known
421
00:28:35.975 --> 00:28:38.155
privacy security hardware manufacturer,
422
00:28:38.809 --> 00:28:40.909
like a top a top tier
423
00:28:41.769 --> 00:28:42.830
notice, like, $1900.
424
00:28:43.529 --> 00:28:44.909
It runs an Intel chip.
425
00:28:45.289 --> 00:28:49.365
So that's interesting. It's the first it's the first, you know, Bitcoin focused one
426
00:28:49.745 --> 00:28:51.285
to kinda go into that premier
427
00:28:51.745 --> 00:28:52.885
that premier step.
428
00:28:53.905 --> 00:29:04.480
429
00:29:05.305 --> 00:29:06.525
should be used for Bitcoin.
430
00:29:07.625 --> 00:29:21.825
431
00:29:22.285 --> 00:29:51.840
It sounds like the idea is obviously not just Bitcoin, but the idea is to sort of how much could you replace by fussing someone's stuff. Right? Whether that's a business or a community, could you replace things with the likes of next cloud or matter most instead of slack or these kinds of things, and then sort of make that case that the business can save money by going fast and using the embassy device instead. So there's a bit of a play there. It's interesting to see what way they go. Also, they took away since the product key. So,
432
00:29:52.855 --> 00:30:13.375
I can't remember the detail of that, but I I recall also, Odell, you had a Citadel dispatch where there was a big debate about, okay, how much fuss should the node projects be? And, you know, on one side, you've got RASP by blitz and Ronan Dojo who are like full force. Then you've got the people who are somewhere in the middle, like, start 9 and my node. And then over on the other end, you've got, like, the umbrells of the world. Right?
433
00:30:14.075 --> 00:30:15.375
434
00:30:16.154 --> 00:30:17.054
start 9.
435
00:30:17.514 --> 00:30:18.815
You can build it yourself.
436
00:30:19.429 --> 00:30:23.370
You can verify it, but you can't monetize it. So similar similar,
437
00:30:24.149 --> 00:30:25.370
license to NVK,
438
00:30:26.149 --> 00:30:29.049
439
00:30:30.135 --> 00:30:35.595
and, I think the problem is there's a huge chunk of devs out there that are terrified
440
00:30:36.295 --> 00:30:37.995
of the FOSS people,
441
00:30:39.460 --> 00:30:41.560
and also there's a lot of false people
442
00:30:41.940 --> 00:30:43.640
who are just absolutely,
443
00:30:44.100 --> 00:30:48.975
like, disheartened with that lack of cold review and sort of like
444
00:30:49.275 --> 00:30:53.615
the the status of FOSS, and I think a lot of this can be attributed to
445
00:30:54.360 --> 00:30:55.020
so like
446
00:30:55.480 --> 00:30:56.060
the the existing,
447
00:30:57.000 --> 00:30:57.500
FOSS
448
00:30:58.120 --> 00:30:58.620
sentiment
449
00:30:59.000 --> 00:31:02.940
and and sort of attitude, especially by the people who don't write code.
450
00:31:05.135 --> 00:31:09.235
Actually, the majority of the false zealotry comes from people that don't write code.
451
00:31:09.695 --> 00:31:14.190
You know, this is not a new debate. This is not a, this is not gonna end debate.
452
00:31:15.049 --> 00:31:23.615
Maybe that's what the next episode panel should be. I should get a lawyer, a few people from from different walks of life that are, like, in the false spectrum
453
00:31:24.075 --> 00:31:31.470
454
00:31:33.370 --> 00:31:34.910
455
00:31:36.105 --> 00:31:39.325
Yeah. Anyways, I I feel like there's a lot of people out there
456
00:31:39.945 --> 00:31:45.325
that are scared shitless of talking about the stuff publicly, which is the biggest challenge. Right? That's definitely true.
457
00:31:46.490 --> 00:31:51.630
And, it it's just nice to see some projects with with some balls that that do what they wanna do.
458
00:31:52.169 --> 00:32:02.235
459
00:32:02.679 --> 00:32:03.500
2 terabytes
460
00:32:03.880 --> 00:32:04.380
SSD.
461
00:32:05.799 --> 00:32:17.705
462
00:32:19.620 --> 00:32:25.480
You know, that's ultimately who makes the money from all the fuss. It's Google, Amazon, Microsoft.
463
00:32:26.395 --> 00:32:26.895
Anyways,
464
00:32:27.274 --> 00:32:29.054
so yeah, I met Matt,
465
00:32:29.355 --> 00:32:38.050
a solid dude, really wants to make this happen, like he he is, he's a person who who who really wants
466
00:32:38.990 --> 00:32:44.155
to to change the way this, these kinds of product category are done, which is
467
00:32:44.535 --> 00:32:45.755
also nice to see.
468
00:32:46.215 --> 00:32:56.260
469
00:32:56.794 --> 00:32:59.294
470
00:32:59.835 --> 00:33:05.054
I I feel like if I'm if I'm recording this, one, I should be a 100% sober, and 2,
471
00:33:05.590 --> 00:33:06.230
I should,
472
00:33:06.630 --> 00:33:07.590
I should have,
473
00:33:07.990 --> 00:33:10.730
probably somebody in the middle there just to
474
00:33:11.590 --> 00:33:13.450
to moderate and tame
475
00:33:13.845 --> 00:33:17.145
476
00:33:18.165 --> 00:33:21.065
477
00:33:22.130 --> 00:33:23.910
478
00:33:24.610 --> 00:33:28.550
The node 1 we were talking about, and Matt was on that too. Yeah. That's true.
479
00:33:29.010 --> 00:33:31.590
480
00:33:32.595 --> 00:33:33.495
Future Paul.
481
00:33:34.195 --> 00:33:42.020
Future Paul. Real zealot. Yeah. I know. But what's funny because he was making fun that, that I took the like, some of the text
482
00:33:43.300 --> 00:33:44.280
from, from Bitcoin
483
00:33:44.580 --> 00:33:45.080
Bitcoin
484
00:33:45.460 --> 00:33:45.960
bounties.
485
00:33:46.980 --> 00:33:49.960
486
00:33:51.274 --> 00:33:52.654
you didn't give Yeah.
487
00:33:52.955 --> 00:33:59.855
488
00:34:03.500 --> 00:34:05.840
And then, anyways, we were laughing about that.
489
00:34:06.140 --> 00:34:19.359
But, yeah, I mean, it's not easy, and it's it's gonna be a very, very tricky dynamic forever on that. To me, the most important thing to Bitcoiners is that the security needs to be done in public.
490
00:34:20.059 --> 00:34:21.839
Everything needs to be verifiable.
491
00:34:22.779 --> 00:34:23.839
How people choose
492
00:34:24.225 --> 00:34:27.365
to monetize, don't monetize, give, don't give, that's their problem.
493
00:34:27.905 --> 00:34:28.965
That is my view.
494
00:34:29.425 --> 00:34:34.890
495
00:34:35.750 --> 00:34:39.615
you know, they they built, like, a actual operating system kind of in Rust,
496
00:34:40.255 --> 00:34:42.435
that does a good job of modeling
497
00:34:43.295 --> 00:34:56.160
the state of the machine. So if you're if you're gonna write a new package, like, we're gonna write a Fedimint package at some point So you can spin up this, federated private bank and be, you know, from your Raspberry Pi. And so one of the cool things is it can, like, kick off of the it Moon shitcoin.
498
00:34:57.955 --> 00:34:59.655
No comment on that. So,
499
00:35:01.155 --> 00:35:24.174
you you can fire up flows and it'll kinda kinda understand what is the state of your Bitcoin node. What is the state of your Lightning node? Like, what what configuration needs to happen? So I think this start 9 has, like, a really solid foundation for building, like, future protocols on top of Bitcoin and Lightning where, versus some of the other ones. They're also really you know, they they branch out outside of Bitcoin as well. They have, like, photo viewers, chat servers. Like, they
500
00:35:24.800 --> 00:35:25.300
they're
501
00:35:25.600 --> 00:35:28.420
they're trying to do a lot more than the other ones, I think.
502
00:35:28.880 --> 00:35:32.980
And which is a downside too, you know. Like, do I do you want your photos? You want a bunch of photos,
503
00:35:33.414 --> 00:35:39.914
you know, swimming around your lightning channel private key file? You know? That's kinda that's kinda scary.
504
00:35:40.990 --> 00:35:42.030
505
00:35:43.230 --> 00:35:45.230
yeah. We were talking to them about,
506
00:35:46.430 --> 00:35:50.325
we're gonna if we do do that code node thing we wanna do,
507
00:35:50.625 --> 00:35:56.244
we would have to create a package that creates, essentially a delta of, Bitcoin course DB
508
00:35:56.980 --> 00:35:59.880
so that you can you can then air gap move that around.
509
00:36:00.500 --> 00:36:04.440
So we would need some of these node projects to sort of be the the high availability
510
00:36:05.445 --> 00:36:07.625
latest copy of the chain available,
511
00:36:08.645 --> 00:36:10.105
so looking forward to that.
512
00:36:10.965 --> 00:36:11.465
Alright.
513
00:36:12.700 --> 00:36:14.079
Block stream green,
514
00:36:14.460 --> 00:36:15.680
QT 1.1.4,
515
00:36:17.339 --> 00:36:18.480
support for incremental,
516
00:36:19.339 --> 00:36:20.480
Jade firmware update,
517
00:36:21.645 --> 00:36:22.625
enable request,
518
00:36:23.245 --> 00:36:25.025
2 factor reset for liquid.
519
00:36:26.685 --> 00:36:28.625
After nunchuck, I don't really use
520
00:36:29.610 --> 00:36:33.790
green too much. It is a it is a, like, a nice UX wallet.
521
00:36:34.330 --> 00:36:36.910
They did start supporting sort of like standard
522
00:36:37.290 --> 00:36:39.825
sig things, so it's kinda nice.
523
00:36:40.605 --> 00:36:42.065
Do any of you guys use,
524
00:36:42.444 --> 00:36:43.425
green right now?
525
00:36:43.964 --> 00:36:52.530
Nope. I think it it's, like, it's a great way for you to to have a liquid support, right, which is, like, not very broad install base.
526
00:36:53.630 --> 00:36:57.615
527
00:36:58.395 --> 00:37:02.270
528
00:37:03.150 --> 00:37:10.850
you used to have a lot of users back before Blockstream bought them. Used to be called, pre address. Address. Yes. And it was actually
529
00:37:11.755 --> 00:37:15.055
based on the idea of you having a pre vetted UTXO.
530
00:37:15.755 --> 00:37:19.855
531
00:37:20.640 --> 00:37:35.494
where they controlled one key. Right. And then they had a deal with the merchant where the merchant would trust that they wouldn't charge them back. So if you paid from green green address, the merchant could do a zero confirmation transaction because they trust the green address wasn't gonna double spend. And it's Lawrence,
532
00:37:35.875 --> 00:37:36.694
533
00:37:37.155 --> 00:37:40.099
is and was. A cool idea. Yeah. No. No. Well,
534
00:37:40.480 --> 00:37:43.940
the problem is when he came out to green address, there was also
535
00:37:44.559 --> 00:37:49.565
some talks on the mailing list about green addresses being like state sanctioned addresses,
536
00:37:50.185 --> 00:38:00.900
so in murky the water a little bit of the concept and the name, that sort of sent back the project a lot. Yeah. I mean, it even muddied it in your brain. You were like Yes. Prove that Clearly. Exact yeah.
537
00:38:01.200 --> 00:38:01.700
Clearly.
538
00:38:03.255 --> 00:38:03.755
Right.
539
00:38:04.135 --> 00:38:11.835
540
00:38:12.520 --> 00:38:13.980
Yeah. Aqua is green.
541
00:38:14.280 --> 00:38:15.900
It almost goes back to Pierre's,
542
00:38:16.600 --> 00:38:20.700
earlier comment where I it just almost feels like there's so much debt on
543
00:38:22.105 --> 00:38:27.244
544
00:38:27.545 --> 00:38:40.300
Yeah. But Aqua is actually gonna, you know, how Samsung now left Blockstream to go to start Jan 3, and I think Aqua is eventually gonna be relaunched as part of Jan 3. So Oh. There I think there will be some separation there eventually.
545
00:38:40.755 --> 00:38:42.135
546
00:38:42.835 --> 00:38:43.335
547
00:38:43.795 --> 00:38:45.655
Justin, where should I redirect,
548
00:38:46.675 --> 00:38:47.175
moonshippcoin.cash?
549
00:38:49.970 --> 00:38:51.590
550
00:38:51.890 --> 00:38:53.030
551
00:38:53.730 --> 00:38:54.710
That was a freebie.
552
00:38:55.490 --> 00:38:58.615
He's gonna make you buy back from Moon at the top. That's right.
553
00:38:59.395 --> 00:38:59.895
Lnd,
554
00:39:01.795 --> 00:39:02.295
0.15.2
555
00:39:03.315 --> 00:39:04.214
dash beta.
556
00:39:04.515 --> 00:39:09.960
Wow. That was that everybody talked about this a bit already. It's the big Taproot Multisig transaction.
557
00:39:10.740 --> 00:39:11.240
998
558
00:39:12.180 --> 00:39:13.320
out of 999,
559
00:39:14.580 --> 00:39:15.080
Multisig,
560
00:39:15.845 --> 00:39:17.625
to prove a point which broke
561
00:39:17.925 --> 00:39:18.425
BTCD,
562
00:39:19.605 --> 00:39:24.260
which is what LND was running behind the scenes, which I'm actually surprised.
563
00:39:24.800 --> 00:39:26.180
I I thought LND
564
00:39:26.480 --> 00:39:27.540
was LNDD.
565
00:39:27.920 --> 00:39:29.060
566
00:39:29.400 --> 00:39:33.665
they use they use Well, so they use the library in common. Right.
567
00:39:34.765 --> 00:39:36.305
But you can use,
568
00:39:36.765 --> 00:39:40.065
even if you were using the Bitcoin d back end,
569
00:39:40.660 --> 00:39:43.720
you still had this bug because l and d was using
570
00:39:44.100 --> 00:39:45.880
a library that is a BTCD
571
00:39:46.260 --> 00:39:46.760
library.
572
00:39:47.540 --> 00:39:49.240
573
00:39:49.775 --> 00:39:50.275
bug.
574
00:39:50.895 --> 00:39:56.515
575
00:39:57.300 --> 00:40:01.080
576
00:40:01.460 --> 00:40:03.880
more complexity and a lot more features,
577
00:40:04.825 --> 00:40:06.845
but because Bitcoin is actually good,
578
00:40:09.065 --> 00:40:16.170
it doesn't let you interact with the network in a way that you're not supposed to interact with the network, in the positive or in the negative. Right? So
579
00:40:17.030 --> 00:40:20.970
if you're not supporting a transaction that is supported, you're gonna fork off.
580
00:40:21.385 --> 00:40:24.605
Right? That that would have been the example of of essentially Segwit.
581
00:40:24.985 --> 00:40:29.725
If you didn't support Segwit and your node started seeing Segwit transactions, you would have forked off.
582
00:40:31.190 --> 00:40:32.570
583
00:40:32.950 --> 00:40:37.849
well, first of all, I fucking love Barack. He is a smart kid. I'm glad we have him,
584
00:40:38.470 --> 00:40:44.345
and just seems like a good dude. Isn't it like it's because they were, like, half doing it. They were, like, looking at
585
00:40:45.045 --> 00:40:50.910
like, they they had Taproot support because it's a soft fork. Right? So if if your node is pre Segwit,
586
00:40:51.770 --> 00:40:55.710
you wouldn't be seeing Segwit transactions at all. You just wouldn't even know they existed.
587
00:40:56.145 --> 00:41:00.325
This case, they were updated, so they saw the Taproot transaction. They just library
588
00:41:00.785 --> 00:41:02.245
589
00:41:03.025 --> 00:41:10.930
590
00:41:12.085 --> 00:41:16.244
I I did not look into it. I'd have to look at the details, but I think because they
591
00:41:16.565 --> 00:41:19.865
if I recall correctly, there's somebody who reproduced it without taproot.
592
00:41:20.440 --> 00:41:23.580
593
00:41:23.880 --> 00:41:29.500
594
00:41:30.185 --> 00:41:32.685
595
00:41:33.145 --> 00:41:34.685
in general, in general
596
00:41:35.145 --> 00:41:42.140
597
00:41:42.839 --> 00:41:43.339
Roblox.
598
00:41:43.720 --> 00:41:50.535
So I think there was some particular check that he had put in or that they, the T BTCD team had put into that. It was that
599
00:41:50.994 --> 00:41:53.255
it would validate, it would accept the block,
600
00:41:53.555 --> 00:42:03.430
but it was to do with how it passes the block as it comes over the wire. I think that was the issue. So then they had to update that and get that in line, and that was where they did this hot fix, to go 15.2.
601
00:42:04.050 --> 00:42:08.835
602
00:42:09.535 --> 00:42:10.035
Bitcoin
603
00:42:10.415 --> 00:42:10.915
BTCD,
604
00:42:11.615 --> 00:42:18.650
605
00:42:18.950 --> 00:42:19.450
606
00:42:19.910 --> 00:42:24.395
So, yeah, I I think that to sync the state of a lightning node, you have to process blocks which you get from your,
607
00:42:24.855 --> 00:42:27.115
from your you get from your Bitcoin node. And so,
608
00:42:27.415 --> 00:42:28.775
this transaction, like,
609
00:42:29.255 --> 00:42:35.849
there's a raw transaction, and it's it's quite huge. So I think the basically, like, the stack size in the witness,
610
00:42:36.630 --> 00:42:37.770
was, like, 111,100
611
00:42:38.390 --> 00:42:39.849
or 11,000 bytes.
612
00:42:40.150 --> 00:42:42.810
There's it's hard coded. Anything above 11,000 bytes,
613
00:42:43.375 --> 00:42:50.710
BTCD would just error on. And this transaction was, like, a little above that. Right? So it just it just couldn't it just rejected it. And so,
614
00:42:51.150 --> 00:42:53.109
so then Why are they running
615
00:42:53.569 --> 00:43:21.085
a random size? Because Bitcoin core like, Bitcoin network can take a bigger transaction than that. Yeah. So there there is there is, like, a a a a top size here because you don't wanna be you don't want to accept, like, an arbitrarily large transaction because you have to load it in the memory. If it's too big, it could crash it. You don't wanna have to attempt to validate it. Oh, okay. So it was their choice. So you need you need some of these limits, but so the limit was too low. And so it just, it couldn't parse this. And so, therefore, it rejected the block. And therefore,
616
00:43:21.465 --> 00:43:45.200
your lightning node might have you know, Bitcoin d lightning node might have caught up via the chain tip, but lightning d was not. And one really bad thing here is that you can actually tell if a lightning node an LND node is not at chain tip. And so it's very easy to scan the network and see which nodes you can steal money from. So if you haven't updated, you probably already lost your money. I think, like, it's it'll be close depending on how long your time outs are in lightning.
617
00:43:45.579 --> 00:43:54.225
So that's kinda one of the scary things is you really had the updates quick, and if you haven't, you should update. And then What's the default what's the default time lock? I think 2 weeks.
618
00:43:54.925 --> 00:44:02.790
Yeah. Okay. Okay. So then you're just probably still still time. So then you still have time. Right? Yeah. So just upgrade the LND note if you haven't. That's, like, the takeaway if you're listening.
619
00:44:03.605 --> 00:44:17.250
One kinda concerning thing is that, you know, they're using a library, BGTD, that doesn't have a maintainer. It doesn't have, like, a full time developer. So it's one of those things where, you know, maybe this would have been thought if they had, more people. Like, for example, they they tested they they did test,
620
00:44:18.030 --> 00:44:22.295
this parsing logic. But they only did it with transactions. They didn't do it from a block. So
621
00:44:22.595 --> 00:44:25.895
the actually, the code path that was getting exercised didn't get tested even though,
622
00:44:26.195 --> 00:44:27.175
they thought they had.
623
00:44:27.890 --> 00:44:31.350
Another cool one is, there's a tool released by Tony Georgio.
624
00:44:32.530 --> 00:44:39.494
It's called LN Sploit, which is, like, a really I don't I don't think it's in the notes. It's, like, a cool thing to, like, execute exploits on the lightning network.
625
00:44:40.035 --> 00:44:48.470
This is, you know, and so he he actually gave a demo yesterday of, you know, showing how to do steal this money between 2 reg test nodes.
626
00:44:49.329 --> 00:44:53.270
So it's it's kind of interesting. Lightning hasn't existed in an adversarial environment, and,
627
00:44:54.105 --> 00:44:57.485
and so this is, like see seeing tools like this arise, you know, it's,
628
00:44:58.025 --> 00:45:03.085
if there is an exploit, it'll become easier to to do it, which, you know, encourages people to be a little more conservative.
629
00:45:03.850 --> 00:45:08.750
630
00:45:09.130 --> 00:45:16.055
sort of like low hanging fruit problems that can only, you know, access nodes that don't have a lot of money may not be as exploited,
631
00:45:17.315 --> 00:45:18.935
as, you know, a Bitcoin
632
00:45:19.250 --> 00:45:22.950
sort of client that may be holding 1,000,000. Well, this situation
633
00:45:23.569 --> 00:45:30.244
634
00:45:31.265 --> 00:45:33.045
trying to exploit it. So,
635
00:45:33.664 --> 00:45:35.605
you know, pretending to be offline,
636
00:45:36.440 --> 00:45:37.420
while still watching,
637
00:45:38.280 --> 00:45:40.460
and this would have just been a great opportunity,
638
00:45:41.080 --> 00:45:42.140
to have a plausible,
639
00:45:42.520 --> 00:45:45.500
you know, oh, hey. Come come, you know,
640
00:45:46.005 --> 00:45:49.305
broadcast an old state and then snap you,
641
00:45:50.244 --> 00:45:50.744
you,
642
00:45:51.365 --> 00:45:53.865
punish them, you know, come back online immediately.
643
00:45:54.390 --> 00:46:03.770
And so, like, I think that once you've got people doing that, then now the the game theory is like, alright. I don't know if this person's actually offline or not. And,
644
00:46:04.575 --> 00:46:08.115
that's that's, I think, the important equilibrium to be at,
645
00:46:08.735 --> 00:46:09.455
so that,
646
00:46:09.775 --> 00:46:12.995
lightning is is robust in an adversarial environment.
647
00:46:13.520 --> 00:46:23.625
648
00:46:23.925 --> 00:46:31.030
649
00:46:31.650 --> 00:46:38.505
Yeah. I I like the concealed carry argument of, well, don't you want it to be the case that nobody knows if
650
00:46:38.984 --> 00:46:41.085
if somebody else is armed or not. Right?
651
00:46:41.545 --> 00:46:48.780
And so I would want watchtowers to be, like, concealed as well. Like, you don't know if this person's using a watchtower or not. Mess around. Find out.
652
00:46:49.240 --> 00:46:55.900
653
00:46:56.565 --> 00:47:00.745
a a view for the security of Bitcoin and Lightning. Since you guys mentioned watchtowers,
654
00:47:01.205 --> 00:47:12.549
655
00:47:13.325 --> 00:47:14.065
I have Satoshi.
656
00:47:14.765 --> 00:47:15.505
657
00:47:16.365 --> 00:47:27.080
658
00:47:27.780 --> 00:47:28.840
and that also,
659
00:47:29.815 --> 00:47:36.940
660
00:47:37.500 --> 00:47:46.765
661
00:47:48.665 --> 00:48:03.115
662
00:48:03.895 --> 00:48:04.395
hypothetically,
663
00:48:04.775 --> 00:48:09.915
you could have a bug in Bitcoin Core that's not in BTC. Right? That's there's no rule against that.
664
00:48:10.300 --> 00:48:16.995
665
00:48:17.555 --> 00:48:23.905
666
00:48:24.360 --> 00:48:33.500
667
00:48:34.785 --> 00:49:00.150
And even then you could still, I could just to be clear, the failure mode here was not like you could still route payments. It was just that your node wouldn't tell wouldn't be able to tell if the open or closed like channel got closed. So tell if you're getting attacked. Yeah. I just wanted to say before we move on that one of my favorite parts of this whole thing is that Barack tweeted it out super excited. He's like, I just did this massive multi transaction for only $4, and then he just broke all the l and d notes.
668
00:49:00.849 --> 00:49:04.790
669
00:49:05.505 --> 00:49:08.085
670
00:49:09.025 --> 00:49:11.525
671
00:49:11.904 --> 00:49:18.540
this bug? It would have been major drama, but because he was like a friendly, you know, it's like, who cares? Nobody reports on it.
672
00:49:19.160 --> 00:49:24.245
So so the next update is for Matt, and it's mostly because I found out that, like,
673
00:49:24.785 --> 00:49:26.725
their last, fucking VK
674
00:49:27.265 --> 00:49:27.765
commit
675
00:49:28.305 --> 00:49:37.640
really was just drama, and they really just removed, open dime because the library was broken and didn't wanna fix it. So I figured I'd bring back, the ninja wallet here.
676
00:49:38.215 --> 00:49:38.715
Samurai
677
00:49:39.015 --> 00:49:39.515
version
678
00:49:39.895 --> 00:49:40.395
0.99.98f,
679
00:49:43.015 --> 00:49:43.995
making a debut
680
00:49:44.455 --> 00:49:45.115
on bitcoin.review.
681
00:49:47.790 --> 00:49:51.089
They have a new Paynium bot, and to
682
00:49:51.550 --> 00:49:54.050
authenticate with, using Paynium,
683
00:49:54.589 --> 00:49:56.290
brand new UI for both
684
00:49:56.975 --> 00:49:57.475
initiating
685
00:49:58.175 --> 00:49:59.315
collaborative, collaborating
686
00:49:59.775 --> 00:50:00.275
stonewall,
687
00:50:01.375 --> 00:50:02.675
new join bot,
688
00:50:03.135 --> 00:50:04.515
anti spam fee,
689
00:50:05.119 --> 00:50:10.980
and new tool screen for other things that will definitely not include my products because I'm persona non grata.
690
00:50:11.280 --> 00:50:11.780
So
691
00:50:13.295 --> 00:50:13.795
Matt,
692
00:50:14.175 --> 00:50:14.575
please,
693
00:50:15.055 --> 00:50:15.954
take the floor.
694
00:50:16.895 --> 00:50:18.035
695
00:50:18.494 --> 00:50:19.795
It's good to see it covered.
696
00:50:20.255 --> 00:50:21.075
697
00:50:21.950 --> 00:50:24.930
Remember, folks, make sure you use it if you're on Dojo
698
00:50:25.470 --> 00:50:27.410
always. That that is my view.
699
00:50:28.029 --> 00:50:32.945
700
00:50:33.325 --> 00:50:33.825
701
00:50:34.765 --> 00:50:35.265
Alright.
702
00:50:35.565 --> 00:50:37.745
Is there any other software updates,
703
00:50:38.220 --> 00:50:42.320
like version updates that I may have missed before we move on to the next section of the show?
704
00:50:42.780 --> 00:50:48.484
705
00:50:48.785 --> 00:50:59.930
706
00:51:00.790 --> 00:51:02.170
Regardless, it's awesome.
707
00:51:02.545 --> 00:51:06.405
708
00:51:06.945 --> 00:51:08.005
709
00:51:08.705 --> 00:51:09.205
710
00:51:10.100 --> 00:51:14.580
711
00:51:16.100 --> 00:51:17.320
and Umbrel now.
712
00:51:17.715 --> 00:51:20.055
713
00:51:21.155 --> 00:51:25.495
714
00:51:27.160 --> 00:51:28.860
It's a it's a join market
715
00:51:29.400 --> 00:51:30.220
web UI.
716
00:51:30.680 --> 00:51:31.740
717
00:51:33.320 --> 00:51:33.820
Jam
718
00:51:35.405 --> 00:51:35.905
app.org.
719
00:51:37.005 --> 00:51:47.720
720
00:51:49.115 --> 00:51:51.775
721
00:51:52.795 --> 00:51:54.175
It is the least dramatic,
722
00:51:55.355 --> 00:51:56.495
and the most productive.
723
00:51:58.850 --> 00:52:09.115
724
00:52:09.734 --> 00:52:14.234
725
00:52:14.535 --> 00:52:15.275
726
00:52:15.890 --> 00:52:21.910
727
00:52:22.609 --> 00:52:23.349
728
00:52:23.970 --> 00:52:29.994
729
00:52:31.415 --> 00:52:36.369
It it they say themselves it's still beta, but they're moving very quickly, which is great to see. That's fantastic.
730
00:52:37.150 --> 00:52:39.010
731
00:52:39.550 --> 00:52:40.290
with more
732
00:52:40.670 --> 00:52:41.170
decentralizationness
733
00:52:42.655 --> 00:52:43.555
to these things,
734
00:52:44.175 --> 00:52:46.755
you know, we will win on, like, big time.
735
00:52:47.855 --> 00:52:51.875
736
00:52:52.550 --> 00:52:56.890
that for for basically what Jam is. Nice. Web UI for join market.
737
00:52:57.670 --> 00:53:01.454
And it sounds like they're trying to get consensus because there's
738
00:53:01.755 --> 00:53:03.295
maybe, like, 8 to 10 contributors,
739
00:53:03.835 --> 00:53:16.455
740
00:53:16.994 --> 00:53:23.815
some fiat bugs. No. But they literally said they don't want the bounty. Oh. I'm saying the opposite. Oh, the opposite. Oh, wow.
741
00:53:24.820 --> 00:53:32.200
742
00:53:33.065 --> 00:53:35.165
743
00:53:35.865 --> 00:53:35.945
is,
744
00:53:36.744 --> 00:53:41.690
one of my projects, but I do have somebody else working on it, which is kinda cool,
745
00:53:41.990 --> 00:53:42.490
bitcointreasuries.net.
746
00:53:43.750 --> 00:53:45.849
There's a whole new website, completely
747
00:53:46.390 --> 00:53:48.010
sort of properly made,
748
00:53:48.895 --> 00:53:52.195
is no longer a Google spreadsheet being hosted with a hack,
749
00:53:52.735 --> 00:53:55.075
and you're gonna be able to create your own account,
750
00:53:55.455 --> 00:53:59.710
in the next probably couple weeks and sort of contribute data. There's
751
00:54:00.170 --> 00:54:06.030
API's gonna be in and out. I've talked to the folks from Glassnode, there's some brilliant kids there.
752
00:54:06.505 --> 00:54:07.005
We're
753
00:54:07.385 --> 00:54:10.665
gonna sort of find a way of also listing,
754
00:54:11.065 --> 00:54:13.005
wrapped Bitcoin in Derpify.
755
00:54:14.010 --> 00:54:15.630
It's very important because,
756
00:54:16.730 --> 00:54:17.390
the Derpify
757
00:54:17.690 --> 00:54:19.309
people do have a lot of Bitcoin,
758
00:54:19.849 --> 00:54:20.910
and they are
759
00:54:21.535 --> 00:54:23.395
money or not a influencer
760
00:54:23.695 --> 00:54:25.635
in the greater bitcoin economy.
761
00:54:26.255 --> 00:54:30.230
So I wanna capture that and understand that risk. There is charts
762
00:54:31.090 --> 00:54:32.710
and all kinds of cool stuff.
763
00:54:33.090 --> 00:54:33.990
The guys from,
764
00:54:34.530 --> 00:54:35.590
what was her name?
765
00:54:36.370 --> 00:54:36.870
Mackenzie.
766
00:54:37.474 --> 00:54:40.694
Mackenzie, that that one of the only good, Bitcoin journalists
767
00:54:41.155 --> 00:54:44.935
just used this site as a a reference in one of her latest articles.
768
00:54:45.539 --> 00:54:49.640
Anyways, it's, it's a lot of fun, man, to, to have this data there
769
00:54:50.019 --> 00:54:52.119
because, it's kinda like watching
770
00:54:52.660 --> 00:54:55.895
the size of the pile that people are making on Bitcoin, and
771
00:54:56.595 --> 00:55:02.935
business people are very competitive, and they need a leaderboard to understand how much more Bitcoin they need to buy.
772
00:55:03.490 --> 00:55:06.630
So if I can provide that as a service, so be it.
773
00:55:07.090 --> 00:55:11.270
So, yeah, pretty pretty excited about that. The the new site does look fucking awesome.
774
00:55:11.815 --> 00:55:15.035
775
00:55:15.495 --> 00:55:16.475
sold bitcointreasuries.org
776
00:55:17.415 --> 00:55:19.355
to the same guys that bought Bitbo,
777
00:55:19.700 --> 00:55:21.320
and then he just launched bitcointreasuries.net
778
00:55:22.180 --> 00:55:23.000
and made improvements.
779
00:55:23.700 --> 00:55:26.440
780
00:55:26.820 --> 00:55:27.560
The data,
781
00:55:28.444 --> 00:55:37.505
the domains, the Twitter account, and everything. They said they didn't want it. I said, listen, you know, if you if you don't wanna buy the whole thing, then I'm gonna run it because I'm still passionate about this project.
782
00:55:38.430 --> 00:55:39.730
They're okay with it, so,
783
00:55:40.270 --> 00:55:45.490
so that's what it is. It's dot net now even though I don't like the dot net framework.
784
00:55:46.235 --> 00:55:49.855
So, yeah, so so we have that going there. It's a lot of fun.
785
00:55:50.715 --> 00:55:51.215
Stratumv2
786
00:55:52.235 --> 00:55:53.375
reference implementation.
787
00:55:54.310 --> 00:55:55.610
This is really cool.
788
00:55:55.990 --> 00:55:56.970
Stratum V2
789
00:55:57.270 --> 00:55:59.770
is a big, big deal for minors.
790
00:56:00.470 --> 00:56:02.250
It was a long time coming.
791
00:56:03.035 --> 00:56:04.174
It's not simple,
792
00:56:04.875 --> 00:56:07.855
and, you know, it's just one of those things that, like,
793
00:56:08.555 --> 00:56:10.174
people people got it done.
794
00:56:10.780 --> 00:56:13.600
Any any of you guys have some commentary on it?
795
00:56:16.460 --> 00:56:20.865
Okay. None of us are gonna have fun staying poor the next few weeks as miners.
796
00:56:21.565 --> 00:56:24.225
Well actually no, Pierre works for Riot now.
797
00:56:25.325 --> 00:56:27.585
This is gonna be, it's gonna be wonderful
798
00:56:28.340 --> 00:56:31.000
to have the new Hash rate the Bitcoin prices,
799
00:56:31.380 --> 00:56:35.480
but I am certain Riot is gonna make it. Or maybe the new Hash is Riot.
800
00:56:36.204 --> 00:56:40.545
801
00:56:40.925 --> 00:56:42.785
802
00:56:43.860 --> 00:56:48.920
that, what happens every single bear market cycle that the hash rate goes up
803
00:56:49.460 --> 00:56:52.680
is essentially the miners that are in a good
804
00:56:53.005 --> 00:56:53.825
cash position.
805
00:56:55.005 --> 00:56:59.905
They will hold off turning on hash rates just before the price truly dumps,
806
00:57:00.579 --> 00:57:13.755
And then like, just and everybody looks like they're gonna like completely get destroyed because of the price and their leverage on the mining equipment, then they're gonna turn on the mining gear to really, like, destroy completely the mining competition,
807
00:57:14.535 --> 00:57:20.980
808
00:57:21.440 --> 00:57:25.700
809
00:57:27.645 --> 00:57:29.505
810
00:57:29.885 --> 00:57:31.025
I mean, I think that,
811
00:57:32.605 --> 00:57:37.390
speaking as as an insider, at the end of the day, it takes time to deploy.
812
00:57:38.170 --> 00:57:39.310
And there's
813
00:57:39.690 --> 00:57:50.585
in order for the profit margin compression to happen, yeah, it takes, like, 18 to 24 months. Right? And so that's why, you know, from the top of the bull market to the bottom,
814
00:57:50.965 --> 00:57:52.810
it's it's a brutal ride down,
815
00:57:53.350 --> 00:57:55.530
but, hash rate number go up.
816
00:57:55.910 --> 00:57:58.810
And, and then the cycle will start all over again.
817
00:57:59.190 --> 00:58:00.890
You know? People will
818
00:58:01.335 --> 00:58:01.835
abandon,
819
00:58:02.934 --> 00:58:06.954
you know, the the marginal miners will will turn off. Right? They'll go away.
820
00:58:07.255 --> 00:58:13.599
And then, the Bitcoin bull market will come back, and then everyone will be scrambling to build more infrastructure
821
00:58:14.300 --> 00:58:17.599
and then, actually come online during the next bear market.
822
00:58:18.355 --> 00:58:28.380
823
00:58:28.680 --> 00:58:32.460
I'm just kidding. No. It is actually, like, it's new to me.
824
00:58:32.760 --> 00:58:39.994
825
00:58:40.295 --> 00:58:41.035
to manufacture
826
00:58:41.734 --> 00:58:50.920
827
00:58:51.380 --> 00:58:51.880
mature.
828
00:58:52.315 --> 00:58:52.815
Right?
829
00:58:53.275 --> 00:58:57.214
Well, I mean, mature between quotes, like, mature for Bitcoin. Right?
830
00:58:57.675 --> 00:58:58.795
831
00:59:00.130 --> 00:59:01.590
we just had a 1,000
832
00:59:01.890 --> 00:59:05.030
multisig cause, you know, a big bug and, like like,
833
00:59:05.410 --> 00:59:28.165
834
00:59:28.945 --> 00:59:38.859
argument in in some way because it's kind of like, look, they just genuinely have some delay with getting the machinery or getting the rack space or getting the power, you know, that kind of thing. The power seems to be the power infrastructure
835
00:59:39.160 --> 00:59:50.325
836
00:59:50.944 --> 00:59:52.724
but, like, you know, you can't get
837
00:59:53.090 --> 00:59:53.590
transformers.
838
00:59:54.370 --> 00:59:57.830
Yeah. You can't get, like, the actual last mile
839
00:59:58.370 --> 01:00:01.830
of that that because, like, people don't understand the size
840
01:00:02.415 --> 01:00:08.835
of the energy delivery that you have last mile for minors. Like, it's pretty crazy. And, like, Riot acquired
841
01:00:09.619 --> 01:00:19.315
842
01:00:20.975 --> 01:00:23.475
now. There's there's definitely I mean, you know,
843
01:00:23.855 --> 01:00:26.610
I guess, just refer to our public financial statements.
844
01:00:27.010 --> 01:00:30.070
845
01:00:30.370 --> 01:00:31.350
a hunting friend,
846
01:00:31.810 --> 01:00:35.270
who does the electrical design for Amazon warehouses.
847
01:00:36.445 --> 01:00:37.405
Very smart kid. And,
848
01:00:39.165 --> 01:00:45.025
you know, he's always telling me, like, dude, you have no idea the insanity right now. It's like, I can't get this. I can't get that.
849
01:00:46.010 --> 01:00:47.870
And and this is like fucking Amazon.
850
01:00:48.330 --> 01:00:52.830
Right? Like, I mean, you know, they go, like, jump and the companies go how high.
851
01:00:53.295 --> 01:01:04.410
So I can't even imagine how how difficult it is for for for companies that don't have that kind of reach because a lot of the stuff you guys are buying is commodity. Right? So you guys are literally competing with Amazon warehouses.
852
01:01:05.350 --> 01:01:05.850
So
853
01:01:06.390 --> 01:01:08.090
it's, it must be very interesting.
854
01:01:09.325 --> 01:01:10.385
Hatter is fun.
855
01:01:10.845 --> 01:01:15.345
856
01:01:15.805 --> 01:01:16.305
report.
857
01:01:16.809 --> 01:01:19.789
Our hash rate is, still heading record. So,
858
01:01:20.089 --> 01:01:22.270
yeah, adding more machines every day.
859
01:01:22.809 --> 01:01:26.305
860
01:01:26.785 --> 01:01:28.484
a 2 of 3 multisig
861
01:01:28.785 --> 01:01:29.505
air gap,
862
01:01:29.825 --> 01:01:31.125
vault with code
863
01:01:31.425 --> 01:01:34.325
card ledger and tap signer. It's the keykeeper.
864
01:01:35.579 --> 01:01:38.240
I think that's actually the Praneef,
865
01:01:38.700 --> 01:01:39.839
I think is his name,
866
01:01:40.300 --> 01:01:42.800
one of the main lead devs at
867
01:01:43.965 --> 01:01:47.265
Hexa Wallet. Matt Matt, I think you you know those guys,
868
01:01:48.125 --> 01:01:49.505
you you know those guys well.
869
01:01:50.045 --> 01:01:53.245
870
01:01:53.950 --> 01:01:56.369
it was a mobile wallet that had, like, a novel Shamir's
871
01:01:56.830 --> 01:01:59.170
secrets combined with multisig scheme
872
01:01:59.630 --> 01:02:00.770
and no seed backups.
873
01:02:01.525 --> 01:02:08.665
And they realized the importance of standards, so they pulled they pulled that scheme. They made Hexa Wallet just a basic,
874
01:02:09.030 --> 01:02:19.095
you know, seed standard wallet that complies with with the seeds that everyone else uses, and then they came out with a separate app, Keeper, that is focused on multisig
875
01:02:19.715 --> 01:02:25.175
and specifically working with hardware wallets on phones. So they're kinda like the second ones to do it after Nunchuk.
876
01:02:25.680 --> 01:02:30.420
And I I mean, I expect this trend to continue. Like, mobile mobile first kind of experiences
877
01:02:31.040 --> 01:02:40.635
are gonna become more and more common because more and more Bitcoiners, that's gonna be the main way they interact. Well, I mean, like, you know, 90% of the world is mobile first. Right? I mean,
878
01:02:41.650 --> 01:02:47.510
879
01:02:48.695 --> 01:02:59.950
terms. We'll have computers and they're gonna go for air gap, and it's gonna be a fuck to the money. But, like, when you're talking about, you know, the majority of the world's population, you will be mobile first. People don't actually own a computer,
880
01:03:00.410 --> 01:03:02.430
and they'll have phones with crappy cameras
881
01:03:02.970 --> 01:03:11.224
and, you you know, crappy screens. And that's why, like, NFC is on everything. That that like, NFC will eat the world. It already did with payments,
882
01:03:11.845 --> 01:03:20.720
so it's just a progression of that. I think this is this is great. And what's cool too is that all this wallets are supporting everything. They're supporting QR's, they're supporting SD's, they're supporting NFC's.
883
01:03:21.340 --> 01:03:22.560
At the end of the day,
884
01:03:22.994 --> 01:03:25.815
the more ways people have to interact with Bitcoin
885
01:03:26.434 --> 01:03:30.055
and ways to not have the keys on their phones, the better.
886
01:03:30.450 --> 01:03:34.550
I think this is super cool. And these guys are based in India too, which is
887
01:03:34.930 --> 01:03:39.830
you know, I I hope they start focusing on that market as opposed to the North American market.
888
01:03:40.545 --> 01:03:42.865
It must be a smaller market at the moment, but,
889
01:03:43.345 --> 01:03:46.725
I I don't know. Like, have you talked to them about this? From my perspective,
890
01:03:47.670 --> 01:03:50.810
891
01:03:51.430 --> 01:03:51.930
community.
892
01:03:52.790 --> 01:04:01.555
So they've been basically it's, like, 2 pronged. They've they've obviously been focused on the ground in India, but, you know, they they they basically are are publicizing
893
01:04:01.855 --> 01:04:05.234
themselves to American English speakers for peer review.
894
01:04:05.600 --> 01:04:11.780
Like, they even have a they have a big conference they're doing there, the first Bitcoin only India conference. I'm a speaker.
895
01:04:12.845 --> 01:04:17.025
Yeah. Me me me and Stefan will be remote. I think I assume you're remote as well.
896
01:04:17.565 --> 01:04:18.845
897
01:04:19.644 --> 01:04:23.570
898
01:04:23.950 --> 01:04:25.250
899
01:04:25.710 --> 01:04:26.770
for, JavaScript,
900
01:04:27.230 --> 01:04:28.850
901
01:04:29.310 --> 01:04:34.335
the most talented dev team by any means in the space, but but they're trying and they're improving.
902
01:04:35.275 --> 01:04:45.880
903
01:04:46.260 --> 01:04:55.425
a lot better quality code and a lot of things happening because they will attract better talent that wants to live there, already is from there, the life that wants to come back.
904
01:04:55.805 --> 01:04:56.785
You will find,
905
01:04:57.440 --> 01:04:59.859
yeah, I think the call quality will improve
906
01:05:00.400 --> 01:05:02.339
as the number go up improves,
907
01:05:03.680 --> 01:05:06.820
in terms of users and and Bitcoin sort of adoption.
908
01:05:07.345 --> 01:05:11.285
It's bullish. You know, when you look at the quality of apps like in Brazil,
909
01:05:11.905 --> 01:05:13.685
or in India, on the app stores,
910
01:05:14.945 --> 01:05:15.845
you know, like
911
01:05:16.359 --> 01:05:18.140
this is this is miles better,
912
01:05:19.319 --> 01:05:24.460
so it's it's and it's not English centric, hopefully, for their app in their country.
913
01:05:25.085 --> 01:05:27.505
So I I think it's it's gonna take time,
914
01:05:28.125 --> 01:05:29.825
and it's gonna take a lot of effort.
915
01:05:31.005 --> 01:05:32.945
Okay. So the Guatemalan guy
916
01:05:33.369 --> 01:05:33.869
mining
917
01:05:34.570 --> 01:05:36.670
Bitcoin with used cooking oil. I mean,
918
01:05:37.130 --> 01:05:48.950
how could you not just at least mention it? I just really love it. I mean, you know, the dude is like, you know, my backyard, I got a miner, I got a motor that can burn biodiesel, I'm gonna put some coconut cooking oil on it, why not?
919
01:05:49.750 --> 01:05:52.570
It probably smelled terrible around it, but hey. Fantastic.
920
01:05:53.190 --> 01:05:59.345
That's why the hash rate is spiking. It's that dude. That's right. You know, North America is is is is dumping
921
01:05:59.885 --> 01:06:05.505
vegetable oils and, seed oils. So now we have a new path for all these crappy oils.
922
01:06:05.950 --> 01:06:08.130
Let's just, burn them and make sats.
923
01:06:08.430 --> 01:06:13.170
924
01:06:13.550 --> 01:06:14.290
is renewable,
925
01:06:14.915 --> 01:06:16.935
926
01:06:17.315 --> 01:06:20.695
927
01:06:21.315 --> 01:06:22.055
to burn
928
01:06:22.435 --> 01:06:23.815
instead of using coal
929
01:06:24.300 --> 01:06:24.800
because
930
01:06:25.420 --> 01:06:35.984
it's more renewable. But it pollutes more. It's way worse by every measure. But somebody lobbied the right people to add biomass to the list of renewable technology,
931
01:06:36.605 --> 01:06:37.825
which is really just,
932
01:06:38.204 --> 01:06:40.464
you know, going back to ancient technology.
933
01:06:41.005 --> 01:06:52.110
But, yeah, it's it's insanity. And so I I think this guy is at the forefront of renewable Bitcoin mining. Pierre, you just have a wrong time frame in mind. Okay? See, oil is renewable.
934
01:06:52.914 --> 01:07:03.329
935
01:07:03.710 --> 01:07:18.680
936
01:07:19.700 --> 01:07:24.500
937
01:07:25.465 --> 01:07:30.605
938
01:07:31.065 --> 01:07:31.565
and,
939
01:07:32.240 --> 01:07:37.300
you know, you're taking farmland that could be producing, you know, amazing meat or whatever,
940
01:07:37.680 --> 01:07:40.420
even kale for the people who prefer kale over meat,
941
01:07:41.165 --> 01:07:42.785
and they're producing crap
942
01:07:43.165 --> 01:07:49.410
that's mono cropped and destroys the environment to make fuel that is really not great.
943
01:07:49.790 --> 01:07:53.250
You know, you would notice on on, better combustion engines,
944
01:07:53.550 --> 01:07:56.849
especially the the high end ones, they'll say no ethanol, please,
945
01:07:57.555 --> 01:07:58.535
right on the tank.
946
01:07:58.995 --> 01:07:59.395
So,
947
01:08:00.115 --> 01:08:03.735
it's very unfortunate that we live in a world of such a
948
01:08:04.410 --> 01:08:05.790
a skilled understanding
949
01:08:06.329 --> 01:08:06.910
of physics.
950
01:08:07.369 --> 01:08:08.990
951
01:08:09.369 --> 01:08:12.829
related is how Europe is redefining energy
952
01:08:13.155 --> 01:08:19.735
as green. Right? So for example, they were they recently redefined gas as green. Now it's in a way you can make that argument. Bombs are ESG.
953
01:08:20.720 --> 01:08:24.660
Yeah. Well, I mean, ultimately necessity is driving them to actually remember,
954
01:08:25.040 --> 01:08:30.715
actually, we have to be pragmatic instead of virtue signaling and wind and solar and all that. Yep.
955
01:08:31.015 --> 01:08:34.875
956
01:08:35.735 --> 01:08:46.290
the way, like, proof of work works, that, like, it just rewards ingenuity. Like, the guy was just creative. He was resourceful. He figured out an edge. And then the second thing is, you know, Pierre started the environmental thing
957
01:08:46.645 --> 01:08:47.865
come part of this conversation,
958
01:08:48.485 --> 01:09:02.820
but he actually makes a point in the thing that the locals were just dumping the the used cooking oil in his local lake. So he can just get it from all the other people too, and instead of them dumping in the lake, he's fucking making Bitcoin off of it. Well, don't you guys remember that movie Nerds
959
01:09:03.275 --> 01:09:05.455
960
01:09:05.755 --> 01:09:08.815
They're similar, you know? It just the oil is going through the garbage anyways.
961
01:09:10.449 --> 01:09:15.190
Don't throw oil in your fucking local lakes, please. Yeah. Mine, make sure with them.
962
01:09:16.290 --> 01:09:16.790
Alright.
963
01:09:17.775 --> 01:09:18.275
Peach
964
01:09:18.735 --> 01:09:22.755
was announced, came out public finally. P 2p mobile application.
965
01:09:23.375 --> 01:09:25.395
Essentially, it's like a p 2p market.
966
01:09:25.820 --> 01:09:38.574
I find it super cool. It's Steph, right, who's behind this. Yeah. Proof of Steph. She's been around at Amsterdam as well at this conference. She's been around Bitcoin for a while too, if memory serves well. Indeed. Not a noob.
967
01:09:39.195 --> 01:10:00.300
It's just it's nice to see, her starting a project. It's nice to see this p two p thing's not using some stupid token and hipsters just exchanging crap. What's the name of that app that, like, people used? I wanna compare it to something so people know. There was an app that, like, it was the craze in North America pre COVID that, like, everybody was exchanging crap around,
968
01:10:00.680 --> 01:10:02.940
and you get some credits that were not
969
01:10:03.240 --> 01:10:03.740
Bitcoin.
970
01:10:05.000 --> 01:10:05.500
But
971
01:10:05.880 --> 01:10:07.580
972
01:10:08.355 --> 01:10:20.760
But, anyway, the cool part about some peach is, you know, peach is mobile first, very easy to use way to get no k y c Bitcoin or to sell your Bitcoin without k y c peer to peer. But what's interesting to me is
973
01:10:21.220 --> 01:10:25.240
the peach team and the Robosats team basically kind of realized it at the same time.
974
01:10:25.565 --> 01:10:30.145
Maybe Huddl Huddl kinda realized it first that maybe you don't need to be
975
01:10:30.845 --> 01:10:37.190
as censorship resistant as something like BISK where you have that trade off of convenience, and you can have some elements of centralization.
976
01:10:38.050 --> 01:10:43.405
You're just not taking custody of funds. So they're both centralized, but they're not taking custody.
977
01:10:43.945 --> 01:10:45.645
And, basically, now it's a test.
978
01:10:46.665 --> 01:10:55.409
Is that enough for regulators or not? And if it if it is enough, then we can continue using that. And if it isn't enough, then you have to go to a more censorship resistant model like this.
979
01:10:55.710 --> 01:11:03.075
980
01:11:03.615 --> 01:11:09.390
they're they're gonna have to make Craigslist or Facebook be a money, a KYC because you wanna sell a toaster.
981
01:11:09.690 --> 01:11:12.830
Right? I actually sold a coffee machine today.
982
01:11:13.370 --> 01:11:16.750
A guy showed up, gave me the money for the coffee machine,
983
01:11:17.595 --> 01:11:22.895
and, you know, and it was my wife who had posted, right, in one of this whatever places.
984
01:11:23.515 --> 01:11:24.015
And
985
01:11:24.330 --> 01:11:27.230
I'm not gonna dox. Anyways, I don't wanna get into details.
986
01:11:27.530 --> 01:11:36.535
But, you know, like, it's just the guy gave me some cash and then and, oh, I wish it was Bitcoin, but in a way, it kinda bettered it's not because some dude's showing up at my door. But,
987
01:11:37.075 --> 01:11:41.469
it it you know, I think people greatly, like, underappreciate
988
01:11:41.849 --> 01:11:43.710
the size of the informal
989
01:11:44.489 --> 01:11:47.230
economy of, like, sort of, like, used trades.
990
01:11:47.725 --> 01:11:48.545
It's a monumentally
991
01:11:49.324 --> 01:11:50.145
large market,
992
01:11:50.685 --> 01:11:56.000
and, it it's just nice to see apps that focus on the Bitcoin stuff. Can you list,
993
01:11:56.460 --> 01:12:03.280
sort of, like do they do the the gift card thing like like Bisk does? Do they do the other things like that?
994
01:12:03.804 --> 01:12:12.864
995
01:12:13.520 --> 01:12:14.420
for the event.
996
01:12:14.960 --> 01:12:18.739
And then it auto the app automatically basically matches you with a
997
01:12:19.120 --> 01:12:20.020
a proper buyer.
998
01:12:20.480 --> 01:12:24.575
Very cool. Yeah. And it's all mobile focused. It's super clean.
999
01:12:25.515 --> 01:12:26.575
1000
01:12:27.035 --> 01:12:27.535
Alright.
1001
01:12:28.610 --> 01:12:33.190
Celsius discloses the name transactions. I think the community sort of, like, beat this one to DAF.
1002
01:12:33.730 --> 01:12:34.310
I mean,
1003
01:12:35.170 --> 01:12:42.204
1004
01:12:42.905 --> 01:12:43.144
1005
01:12:43.945 --> 01:12:45.164
accident on the highway.
1006
01:12:45.730 --> 01:12:48.950
1007
01:12:49.330 --> 01:12:57.245
1008
01:12:57.625 --> 01:12:58.125
information,
1009
01:12:58.585 --> 01:13:00.845
like, it's not gonna get KYC is the crime.
1010
01:13:01.290 --> 01:13:07.309
But this wasn't even a fucking hack. Like, the bankruptcy judge had them file this publicly.
1011
01:13:07.690 --> 01:13:09.309
1012
01:13:09.805 --> 01:13:11.905
court in the US as far as I understand.
1013
01:13:12.445 --> 01:13:16.145
They are not sealed. Right? Like, they wanna include in the in the filings
1014
01:13:16.980 --> 01:13:24.635
every single creditor, which kinda makes sense. The problem is we live in a new world where people can, like, you know, show up at your house and kill you. So,
1015
01:13:25.094 --> 01:13:34.074
you know, it's not quite, like, rebalanced on how courts work. We're based on Internet and reality. Like, we have a legal system that's a little uncapped at times,
1016
01:13:34.840 --> 01:13:38.220
and that's true for many things. I mean, like, the fact that, like,
1017
01:13:38.680 --> 01:13:48.555
you know, license plates for cars work the way that they do or that the the names and addresses of, like, you know, company directors or or executives is right on filings.
1018
01:13:49.150 --> 01:13:58.050
It's insanity, right, that, like, you have your personal information like that in a world where people can, like, snap their fingers and get it. Who knows? Maybe things will change in the coming years
1019
01:13:58.425 --> 01:14:05.570
because you'll get enough backlash, right, the politicians might sort of have to to change some of the rules. I I think you've gotta get Bitcoiners elected
1020
01:14:13.895 --> 01:14:18.235
1021
01:14:18.695 --> 01:14:22.635
1022
01:14:23.250 --> 01:14:25.110
productive people don't wanna be politicians.
1023
01:14:26.770 --> 01:14:28.710
1024
01:14:31.224 --> 01:14:43.120
Yeah. Minding everybody else's business. Essentially, that's the job. Right? Well, that and and you have people coming to you with their problems and you you need to fix all their problems. So it's it's like. Oh, my God. Can you imagine?
1025
01:14:44.060 --> 01:14:49.855
It's like winning the lottery, right? You've got people asking you for money all day long. Yeah. It's pretty brutal. Yeah.
1026
01:14:50.235 --> 01:14:51.215
1027
01:14:51.675 --> 01:14:52.175
you
1028
01:14:52.635 --> 01:15:00.460
know, like, I might as well sort of, like, at least, like, mention it, like, you know, don't store information that you don't need to legally.
1029
01:15:01.400 --> 01:15:09.645
Don't don't keep it. Right? Like, it it all, like, when you look at all the hacks and all the Bitcoin companies, it's always like the stupid marketing database.
1030
01:15:11.065 --> 01:15:14.909
It's never the actual financial tool because those actually have a higher bar security.
1031
01:15:15.210 --> 01:15:19.630
1032
01:15:20.170 --> 01:15:22.745
1033
01:15:23.605 --> 01:15:28.345
1034
01:15:28.725 --> 01:15:30.425
anything that is, like, say,
1035
01:15:30.949 --> 01:15:33.130
it was actually 5, no,
1036
01:15:33.510 --> 01:15:36.330
6 or 7 times the interest rate
1037
01:15:36.949 --> 01:15:37.449
returns.
1038
01:15:38.764 --> 01:15:42.065
1039
01:15:42.525 --> 01:15:43.025
my
1040
01:15:44.045 --> 01:15:45.824
are we're in a such a bubble.
1041
01:15:46.130 --> 01:15:49.190
Like, I I didn't I didn't even know Celsius really existed
1042
01:15:49.730 --> 01:15:50.710
until it started,
1043
01:15:51.010 --> 01:15:54.230
like, falling apart and, like, people are freaking out about it on Twitter.
1044
01:15:55.015 --> 01:15:59.755
But a lot of people used it. Like, a lot of people that I would have thought would never have used it used it.
1045
01:16:00.055 --> 01:16:01.115
1046
01:16:01.950 --> 01:16:05.890
peak by the way, we did not reach bubble levels by the rainbow chart,
1047
01:16:06.670 --> 01:16:08.210
so you cannot call it a bubble.
1048
01:16:08.965 --> 01:16:14.425
1049
01:16:14.725 --> 01:16:18.345
1050
01:16:18.750 --> 01:16:27.170
Like, I really didn't. I was sort of like totally going with my own life, you know, doing the things I do, and and I did not notice
1051
01:16:27.555 --> 01:16:28.935
that we were at the peak,
1052
01:16:29.315 --> 01:16:29.815
because
1053
01:16:30.355 --> 01:16:32.055
it was not stupid enough.
1054
01:16:32.755 --> 01:16:34.455
Clearly, we are in a bubble,
1055
01:16:34.810 --> 01:16:46.895
1056
01:16:47.595 --> 01:16:50.975
equivalent from an economic perspective to Celsius.
1057
01:16:52.420 --> 01:17:02.165
And that's you know, there's a lot that should unravel, but I I think that we'll probably end up going into a bull market before a lot of the other nonsense unravels anyway.
1058
01:17:02.465 --> 01:17:04.245
1059
01:17:04.945 --> 01:17:08.405
you know, unfortunately, the shikway market hasn't even started
1060
01:17:09.190 --> 01:17:15.449
because, like, the the best scammers out there haven't even heard about how they can create a scam on DeFi. Right?
1061
01:17:15.909 --> 01:17:16.409
So
1062
01:17:16.949 --> 01:17:18.090
this stuff, like,
1063
01:17:18.585 --> 01:17:19.225
man, the
1064
01:17:20.025 --> 01:17:22.365
this scam town is still gonna be like,
1065
01:17:23.225 --> 01:17:23.785
you know, like Yeah.
1066
01:17:24.745 --> 01:17:28.045
Because a 1000x, a 1000000x all we have now.
1067
01:17:28.430 --> 01:17:32.530
1068
01:17:32.989 --> 01:17:37.815
basically, they're saying, like, we need to legalize shit coins. They need to be like fully
1069
01:17:38.275 --> 01:17:38.775
legalized.
1070
01:17:39.235 --> 01:17:39.735
And
1071
01:17:40.355 --> 01:17:54.985
when that happens, they say, oh, there's going to be massive growth in the crypto industry. And what they mean is that, like, you're going to have Apple Coin, you're going to have Google Coin, you're going to have Amazon Coin. Right. And you're going to have. Own shit coin dot cash. Yeah.
1072
01:17:56.725 --> 01:18:01.705
That one. But that's a legitimate investment. I don't know why you brought that up. I was talking about shit coins.
1073
01:18:02.700 --> 01:18:06.460
So it's only. Yeah, I agree. I think that they're going to,
1074
01:18:07.100 --> 01:18:08.880
they're going to legalize shit coining
1075
01:18:09.420 --> 01:18:18.505
because right now it's it's not fully legal, Right? Like, it's an under registered security. It's kind of in a gray area at best, you know, depending who you ask. But once it's fully legalized,
1076
01:18:19.285 --> 01:18:26.610
then, yeah, I think that you're gonna have the big boys come in with all their marketing, and they're going to be doing lots of pump and dumps. And,
1077
01:18:27.090 --> 01:18:29.110
you know, we're gonna be over here Bitcoining,
1078
01:18:29.525 --> 01:18:33.304
but, people will have to learn the hard way and and and come join us later.
1079
01:18:34.724 --> 01:18:36.105
1080
01:18:39.000 --> 01:18:40.219
people wanna believe.
1081
01:18:40.840 --> 01:18:45.420
Right? They they wanna believe they can make those 20% returns by doing nothing. Right?
1082
01:18:46.515 --> 01:18:51.415
And and you can't you can't remove that from them. Like, I mean, like, there is no
1083
01:18:51.955 --> 01:18:56.740
pounding in the head, nothing. Like and they're gonna do again and again and again and again.
1084
01:18:57.440 --> 01:19:04.165
It it all like the professionals are trading 6 they were at the peak of the the S and P. They were trading 62
1085
01:19:04.945 --> 01:19:06.245
times revenue.
1086
01:19:07.025 --> 01:19:14.760
1087
01:19:15.460 --> 01:19:21.160
go down the right path of Bitcoin. And then the others who, as you say, are the repeat offenders.
1088
01:19:21.685 --> 01:19:24.344
And those people, the only way they learn is just by
1089
01:19:24.885 --> 01:19:29.145
or the only way they stop having an effect on the market is by not having any capital left.
1090
01:19:29.730 --> 01:19:30.230
And
1091
01:19:31.010 --> 01:19:35.429
then there's like the 3rd category of the people who are actually profiting off of all of this,
1092
01:19:35.730 --> 01:19:43.885
1093
01:19:45.190 --> 01:19:58.235
1094
01:19:58.615 --> 01:20:02.395
the the the pyramid is over. But I think the the pyramid is only,
1095
01:20:02.775 --> 01:20:03.275
sadly,
1096
01:20:03.790 --> 01:20:04.930
beginning. And,
1097
01:20:05.390 --> 01:20:07.250
I'm almost at the stage of, like,
1098
01:20:07.710 --> 01:20:13.010
we just have to ignore it and pretend it's not happening. And as you said, like, being our own echo chamber,
1099
01:20:13.534 --> 01:20:22.994
like, it's okay if Celsius becomes huge and, like, hundreds of thousands of people get rexed. We were telling them not to do that, and we just it's okay.
1100
01:20:23.920 --> 01:20:31.780
1101
01:20:32.615 --> 01:20:36.155
You know, he's been right since as far as I know him. Right?
1102
01:20:36.615 --> 01:20:37.675
Both attitude
1103
01:20:38.455 --> 01:20:52.585
and about shit coins, about all, everything. Right? So like, you know, he's like, listen, why are you trying to, why are you spending your energy trying to convince these people? Like you're not gonna convince a person that wants 20 x, you know, like, whatever. Like, just
1104
01:20:53.284 --> 01:20:58.744
just embrace. Let it fold flow through you. Right? Like, it is what it is. But you see, this is where,
1105
01:20:59.440 --> 01:21:04.739
1106
01:21:05.040 --> 01:21:05.540
who,
1107
01:21:05.920 --> 01:21:07.219
will listen to reason,
1108
01:21:07.935 --> 01:21:10.595
either because they've gotten wrecked or because,
1109
01:21:11.055 --> 01:21:21.409
you know, they're smart enough to kind of learn the easy way of actually listening to Bitcoin Max's. And I know that because I ran this Twitter poll once of, hey, Bitcoin maximalist.
1110
01:21:21.789 --> 01:21:27.455
How many of you used to be shit corners? It It was like 80% of them used to be shit corners. Right? So, like, obviously,
1111
01:21:27.835 --> 01:21:32.895
there is a path. But I also agree with Mr. Hoddle that, like, big picture,
1112
01:21:33.360 --> 01:21:35.220
there's going to be,
1113
01:21:35.760 --> 01:21:36.900
you know, irredeemable
1114
01:21:37.200 --> 01:21:39.060
folks who just cannot learn.
1115
01:21:39.840 --> 01:21:47.155
1116
01:21:47.670 --> 01:21:53.050
1117
01:21:53.670 --> 01:21:58.475
peak cycle because, like, it was, like, you know, essentially capitalized normies. Right?
1118
01:21:58.775 --> 01:22:06.949
So it was a very, like, different kind of demographic. It was, like, say, like, 30 to 40 with money to spend on investments. Nothing like crazy, but, like,
1119
01:22:07.250 --> 01:22:08.869
which is not the norm on Twitter.
1120
01:22:09.329 --> 01:22:17.445
And, like, you could hear, like, people selling Celsius and then and then you could hear people saying Celsius is a scam, and it was fascinating to watch.
1121
01:22:18.625 --> 01:22:45.920
And and, you know, a lot of people there did get saved by people saying it was a Ponzi, but All I can say is a lot of people lucked out that SPF decided to save BlockFi because Right. It would have been a lot worse. I I think the the question that people should ought to ask themselves is where does the yield comes from? It should be a t shirt, should be a sticker. Where does the yield come from? I think it's too bad that SPF bailed out BlockFi. I I think that it would have been better for him not to.
1122
01:22:46.540 --> 01:22:47.040
1123
01:22:47.385 --> 01:22:53.725
because he's a crypto bro, like, it would have been worse for him. Right? Because he needs to keep the dream alive. He was exposed.
1124
01:22:54.105 --> 01:22:58.780
For for in terms of, like, the truth and, you know, long term
1125
01:22:59.160 --> 01:23:00.940
benefit of the users,
1126
01:23:01.560 --> 01:23:07.378
it would have been good for them to get wrecked and to to, you know, have a wake up call. But I
1127
01:23:08.425 --> 01:23:09.405
fundamentally, like,
1128
01:23:09.784 --> 01:23:11.165
people are like, oh, look,
1129
01:23:11.704 --> 01:23:19.330
borrowing and lending Bitcoin, it's the free market. Right? Okay. Yeah. Sure. The problem is that in order for you to actually
1130
01:23:19.870 --> 01:23:20.610
be competent
1131
01:23:20.989 --> 01:23:22.690
at borrowing and lending Bitcoin,
1132
01:23:23.225 --> 01:23:27.805
And same thing with market making or trading. Like, you have to be a professional
1133
01:23:28.265 --> 01:23:31.805
and, like, only, like, you know, the top, you know, 1% or whatever
1134
01:23:32.320 --> 01:23:33.700
are good enough to actually
1135
01:23:34.080 --> 01:23:43.545
measure credit risk and things like that. And then it's such a new market. I don't think those people even exist. And so, like, there there's just no history
1136
01:23:44.324 --> 01:23:49.700
of credit in Bitcoin to base your models on, and the transparency
1137
01:23:50.160 --> 01:23:55.140
is nonexistent. It's fully opaque. And on top of that, somebody like BlockFi,
1138
01:23:55.815 --> 01:24:00.954
when you lend your coins to them, maybe you did your due diligence and they everything was great.
1139
01:24:01.335 --> 01:24:04.074
And then a month later, they changed their terms of service.
1140
01:24:04.489 --> 01:24:28.370
They go and make a stupid loan to, you know, 3 arrows capital, and you don't know about it because you already did your due diligence a month ago and you already lent your Bitcoin, and then they blow up. So it's like, not only you have to do your due diligence once, you have to do it every day. Every day that you're lending to them, you have to do the due diligence over again. It's it's just it it's not scalable. It's a horrible product experience.
1141
01:24:28.815 --> 01:24:35.635
And I like, compared to just putting your Bitcoin on in cold storage and just, you know, living your life,
1142
01:24:36.449 --> 01:24:38.630
and not being a 247 credit analyst,
1143
01:24:39.090 --> 01:24:39.989
it's just incomparable.
1144
01:24:41.330 --> 01:24:50.655
1145
01:24:51.130 --> 01:24:53.390
1146
01:24:54.170 --> 01:24:57.790
I asked them, like, where does the yield come from? They just sort of look at me like,
1147
01:24:58.385 --> 01:25:03.525
we just manage our treasuries well, like, you know, like, yeah, okay, great.
1148
01:25:03.985 --> 01:25:07.365
So you're producing Bitcoin out of thin air, and all like
1149
01:25:07.929 --> 01:25:09.389
it's it's such a
1150
01:25:09.929 --> 01:25:13.389
it's idiotic, but you know it is what it is. Alright,
1151
01:25:13.850 --> 01:25:26.260
I'll be the Bitcoin lightning app for your browser. So this app, it's an extension in your browser that lets you find out if there's websites that support lightning some sense for payments, for subscriptions, for whatever.
1152
01:25:27.040 --> 01:25:33.300
The issue is, extensions can see everything you do on the web, and this is a Bitcoin extension essentially.
1153
01:25:34.865 --> 01:25:41.525
So it's like, I don't know how I feel about it. I love the idea, I just don't like the idea of extensions being able to see everything.
1154
01:25:42.230 --> 01:25:44.090
1155
01:25:44.630 --> 01:25:46.650
I like the idea, obviously,
1156
01:25:47.670 --> 01:25:48.170
restricted
1157
01:25:48.630 --> 01:25:51.205
in terms of how much money you put at risk on this thing.
1158
01:25:51.685 --> 01:25:59.785
But it does give a great experience. Like if you want to just tip people online, if they even got, as an example, let's say you have Albie with some sass in there.
1159
01:26:00.320 --> 01:26:02.420
You can connect it to your own note if you choose.
1160
01:26:02.720 --> 01:26:23.970
And you can, it can read if somebody has the lightning emoji and the lightning address. So it just kind of, it's like a nice way to go around. So as an example, if Brave, the browser has a shitcoin in it, you don't have to use that. Or in the same way that we might copy paste each other like a lightning invoice inside signal, you don't have to use the signal shit coin, you can use Bitcoin. So it's kind of, it's interesting in that way that it might
1161
01:26:24.275 --> 01:26:28.295
reduce the friction. But yes, definitely. There are, you know, security
1162
01:26:28.595 --> 01:26:29.895
aspects that have to be
1163
01:26:30.195 --> 01:26:31.050
grappled with.
1164
01:26:31.929 --> 01:26:39.949
1165
01:26:40.685 --> 01:26:44.625
if there's places where you can pay. No. What we need is
1166
01:26:45.324 --> 01:26:45.824
1167
01:26:46.284 --> 01:26:46.784
vendors
1168
01:26:47.165 --> 01:26:47.905
to support
1169
01:26:48.900 --> 01:26:52.920
the URIs correctly. If they were supporting the URIs correctly,
1170
01:26:53.620 --> 01:26:56.440
the browser doesn't have to expose the whole page
1171
01:26:57.125 --> 01:26:59.225
to the extension. It could just
1172
01:26:59.765 --> 01:27:03.385
show the URI that is present on that page.
1173
01:27:03.765 --> 01:27:05.465
This is really just a poor implementation
1174
01:27:05.845 --> 01:27:07.100
all around browsers.
1175
01:27:07.960 --> 01:27:09.900
It's totally doable in a reasonable
1176
01:27:10.200 --> 01:27:15.980
non crazy way. It's gonna get there. It's not their fault though. It's not Alby's fault. It's it's Chrome's fault. It's
1177
01:27:16.505 --> 01:27:21.325
1178
01:27:21.705 --> 01:27:22.765
1179
01:27:23.700 --> 01:27:26.360
Love them. I love people trying it, but, like,
1180
01:27:26.739 --> 01:27:32.280
a a modern browser is, like, 1,000,000 and 1,000,000 and 1,000,000 and 1,000,000 of lines of code.
1181
01:27:33.114 --> 01:27:38.815
It's a monumentally large project that needs to be done by a monumentally well capitalized entity,
1182
01:27:39.434 --> 01:27:44.230
and it needs a proper sort of, like, way of looking at how to raise that capital.
1183
01:27:45.490 --> 01:27:54.185
The the challenge is, like, what they're gonna end up doing I don't know about them. Just sort of thinking here is, like, they're gonna probably use, like, you know, either Chromium or
1184
01:27:54.745 --> 01:27:56.525
1185
01:27:57.030 --> 01:27:59.610
1186
01:28:00.310 --> 01:28:07.415
Chromium. Right? Like, it it's essential like, didn't Google sort of, like didn't Firefox replace their core stuff with Google stuff?
1187
01:28:07.715 --> 01:28:31.445
1188
01:28:32.500 --> 01:28:47.575
decentralized identity stuff. So that's the one benefit they have of of, and I I think they can have, like, a they could have a lightning node running in the browser too, like, in the background. I don't know if they actually do that yet, but so it's just they have the ability to run a daemon. But, yeah, the browser itself, they they can't really modify too much.
1189
01:28:49.429 --> 01:28:51.530
1190
01:28:52.150 --> 01:28:53.290
I think it's like,
1191
01:28:53.670 --> 01:28:54.570
it's a very,
1192
01:28:54.935 --> 01:28:56.954
very difficult thing to achieve
1193
01:28:57.415 --> 01:29:03.594
in the in the actual end goal if you're not like some massive entity just because it's so much cold to write,
1194
01:29:04.054 --> 01:29:04.554
and
1195
01:29:04.920 --> 01:29:08.620
web technologies are like Swiss cheese, right? Like it's just
1196
01:29:09.400 --> 01:29:11.900
holes everywhere, it's very difficult to secure,
1197
01:29:12.265 --> 01:29:16.445
You know, even Google being Google, there is like 0 day exploits.
1198
01:29:17.065 --> 01:29:25.070
1199
01:29:25.370 --> 01:29:32.975
which one guy, just started writing for fun about 4 years ago. And now it's like a full operating system. He wrote the entire thing himself, including
1200
01:29:33.355 --> 01:29:56.760
an entire browser implementation. So he reimplemented JavaScript, HTML, CSS, absolutely everything from scratch. And now they just he just implemented he just released this as like a a kind of electron app type thing. So it is interesting that you can build a like, basically, a few people built that browser and it's not really up to snuff yet. But it's it's kind of an interest it's an inspiring story about a few motivated people can do in open source. You know? Like, they did build a like Temple OS.
1201
01:29:57.140 --> 01:30:14.630
1202
01:30:15.090 --> 01:30:17.670
1203
01:30:18.050 --> 01:30:24.925
the the browser game is absolutely remember, the browser was not designed to any of the stuff that it does in modern days.
1204
01:30:25.625 --> 01:30:30.845
1205
01:30:31.470 --> 01:30:35.330
That's kind of what a browser is. That's literally what a browser is.
1206
01:30:36.030 --> 01:30:49.795
Yes. It's like an environment for remote code execution. It downloads code over the inter Internet and executes it. So it's really insane the job that a browser attempts to perform. And, you know, you have 2 you could have 2 web apps with 222
1207
01:30:50.335 --> 01:31:01.425
tabs. One is for one bank and one is for other, and they can't steal from each other. It's kind of an insane thing that they accomplished that, you know, that works at all. Yeah. It's, and sometimes they do steal from each other.
1208
01:31:02.605 --> 01:31:04.465
1209
01:31:06.060 --> 01:31:06.560
Alright.
1210
01:31:07.100 --> 01:31:09.440
So the the tornado cash guy,
1211
01:31:10.140 --> 01:31:14.320
he's appeal essentially, they're selling all his crap now. The guy's screwed.
1212
01:31:14.785 --> 01:31:15.825
I doubt that,
1213
01:31:16.705 --> 01:31:22.805
that this guy's gonna get off because again what a lot of people don't realize is that the legal system
1214
01:31:23.730 --> 01:31:25.030
agree or don't agree
1215
01:31:25.650 --> 01:31:26.949
is very well designed,
1216
01:31:27.890 --> 01:31:30.150
especially after Al Capone and crew
1217
01:31:31.355 --> 01:31:33.295
to to go after all your crap,
1218
01:31:34.395 --> 01:31:36.415
you know, if they don't like you.
1219
01:31:37.435 --> 01:31:38.975
You know? So like
1220
01:31:39.770 --> 01:31:44.430
if you were running a project like that and you somehow took any financial
1221
01:31:44.969 --> 01:31:46.830
gains from from the project,
1222
01:31:47.575 --> 01:31:51.755
they will try to go after that, and they will use that to go after all your stuff. It's it's unfortunate,
1223
01:31:52.695 --> 01:31:54.555
you know, privacy projects to have
1224
01:31:55.030 --> 01:31:55.850
very large,
1225
01:31:56.390 --> 01:31:59.690
install base like they were doing, they will suffer
1226
01:32:00.230 --> 01:32:01.530
the state's ire.
1227
01:32:01.965 --> 01:32:07.345
Regardless if it's correct or incorrect or even if the state is correct legally, they'll find a way.
1228
01:32:08.445 --> 01:32:13.889
So the best we can all do is have decentralized projects that don't have coordinators
1229
01:32:14.829 --> 01:32:18.130
because that is a massive, massive hole.
1230
01:32:20.554 --> 01:32:25.675
I think Matt doesn't have anything to say about privacy. But in this case in this case,
1231
01:32:26.870 --> 01:32:30.170
1232
01:32:31.510 --> 01:32:34.570
1233
01:32:35.385 --> 01:32:43.725
He was. Fees? They had a shitcoin attached to it. Well, there you go. Like, you're profiting from crime. That's the way they define it. I think it's more of a lesson in
1234
01:32:44.270 --> 01:32:46.770
1235
01:32:48.190 --> 01:32:50.449
1236
01:32:50.829 --> 01:32:54.375
like, to this extent. I think that the key here is not to take
1237
01:32:54.755 --> 01:32:55.255
profit
1238
01:32:55.875 --> 01:32:56.375
from
1239
01:32:57.554 --> 01:32:59.094
the essential mixing.
1240
01:32:59.475 --> 01:33:08.670
1241
01:33:08.975 --> 01:33:10.835
oh, if you are holding Bitcoin,
1242
01:33:11.215 --> 01:33:16.835
by extension, you are profiting from people money laundering because that is increasing the value of your Bitcoin.
1243
01:33:17.295 --> 01:33:18.114
And therefore,
1244
01:33:19.250 --> 01:33:29.335
1245
01:33:29.875 --> 01:33:31.494
just because it becomes too broad.
1246
01:33:31.954 --> 01:33:34.215
1247
01:33:35.155 --> 01:33:43.050
So, you know, if the wrong treasury secretary is in office, if the wrong president's in office, if somebody does the wrong thing with Bitcoin
1248
01:33:43.645 --> 01:33:51.264
and, you know, the Fiat bros get triggered and they want to do as big of a crackdown as they can. Now granted, I think that at this point,
1249
01:33:52.130 --> 01:33:52.530
the
1250
01:33:53.010 --> 01:33:54.710
it it would be so politically unpopular
1251
01:33:55.490 --> 01:34:00.815
1252
01:34:01.375 --> 01:34:06.995
them having the same bags as you do. That's one thing. You also win by fighting,
1253
01:34:07.710 --> 01:34:17.085
1254
01:34:17.864 --> 01:34:26.270
that they are fighting this in in court, and they're fighting for every inch here because that puts that much more distance between,
1255
01:34:27.050 --> 01:34:32.830
the Fiat Bros and our lovely orange coin. So I think it's it's great. But yeah. I I
1256
01:34:33.864 --> 01:34:38.764
1257
01:34:39.465 --> 01:34:41.244
What I'm trying to say is
1258
01:34:41.780 --> 01:34:44.040
when you have a very direct and obvious
1259
01:34:44.420 --> 01:34:47.560
sort of thing, like, you know, at least in their view, in their very,
1260
01:34:48.100 --> 01:34:50.120
you know, ignorant view of software,
1261
01:34:50.705 --> 01:34:51.364
You are
1262
01:34:51.744 --> 01:34:54.804
running the thing that does directly
1263
01:34:55.505 --> 01:34:56.885
sort of like make this,
1264
01:34:57.344 --> 01:34:58.900
you know, like illegal
1265
01:34:59.280 --> 01:35:09.275
activity happen and you're directly taking profit from that where they can go and say, like, look, from this wallet to this wallet You've just described you've just described Bitcoin mining as well, arguably.
1266
01:35:09.655 --> 01:35:18.420
1267
01:35:18.880 --> 01:35:30.265
I agree with you. That's the logic they're using. They're trying to use this logic. I'll put it that way because This is what I'm saying. It's like I am not defending the logic. I'm just saying that that's the logic they need. Should be fought.
1268
01:35:30.690 --> 01:35:33.590
No. It's the that's the logic they're trying to use here.
1269
01:35:33.969 --> 01:35:34.469
1270
01:35:35.250 --> 01:35:37.429
And this guy is not in US. Right?
1271
01:35:37.969 --> 01:35:39.510
1272
01:35:39.845 --> 01:35:42.985
Like, it's worse in Europe than in the US for sure. Exactly.
1273
01:35:43.445 --> 01:35:55.699
1274
01:35:56.665 --> 01:36:00.925
as they are describing, crossed the line, and they're trying to go after that. They're clearly succeeding.
1275
01:36:01.625 --> 01:36:05.325
I hope I hope that people fighting it win, but, like,
1276
01:36:06.320 --> 01:36:11.380
realistically speaking, he should have sick some, like, you know, legal advice before he chose the design.
1277
01:36:11.760 --> 01:36:19.344
1278
01:36:20.750 --> 01:36:22.050
because the OFAC
1279
01:36:22.590 --> 01:36:27.409
OFAC, an American organization, put him on the sanction list, and that's why the Netherlands arrested him.
1280
01:36:28.505 --> 01:36:38.410
So, like, the the court case over in the Netherlands is, like, him just arguing over with, like, the then we had the puppets rather than fighting the master, and that's why coin center's fighting it in the US.
1281
01:36:39.750 --> 01:36:43.449
1282
01:36:43.935 --> 01:36:46.675
sort of, like, dictating how I am in a different country,
1283
01:36:47.535 --> 01:36:51.395
what I can and can't do. It's kinda funny because, like, in Canada, you can ship to Cuba
1284
01:36:52.300 --> 01:36:57.840
in all products and stuff. Like, in, you know, we we can have Cuban products. Right? Are you shipping to Cuba?
1285
01:36:58.620 --> 01:37:16.820
Yeah. We can ship to Cuba. But people are buying it from Cuba, or is that not allowed to not no comment? I'm not gonna discuss customer Okay. Alright. Purchases. But Look it up in your database. Look up, in your marketing ways. We have to take we have to take it super seriously. Right? Because if we have products going to places that have sanction lists, right,
1286
01:37:17.295 --> 01:37:19.635
like, you could really, like, be in trouble,
1287
01:37:20.255 --> 01:37:22.434
and and our goal is not to be in trouble.
1288
01:37:23.695 --> 01:37:27.530
You know what I mean? I don't wanna be a marcher. I I want somebody else to be a martyr.
1289
01:37:27.910 --> 01:37:30.890