Sept. 22, 2022

Bitcoin.Review E6: A Review of Updates to Popular Bitcoin Projects with NVK, Bitstein, and Pierre Rochard

Software Releases and Project Updates

00:01:41 COLDCARD Mk4 5.0.7 - Sep 9, 2022 (bit.ly/3BClP0f)
00:05:56 Core Lightning v0.12.0 - Aug 24, 2022 (bit.ly/3S5lr1m)
00:12:43 Blockclock 1.2.0 - Sep 15, 2022 (bit.ly/3BxSILG)
00:13:34 Spectre desktop v1.12.0 - Aug 26, 2022 (bit.ly/3qSWBWK)
00:16:28 Joinmarket v0.9.7 - Aug 28, 2022 (bit.ly/3qWoH3f)
00:17:50 NPM package for SeedXOR. (bit.ly/3C8BOFb)
00:25:56 RoboSats on Umbrel (bit.ly/3fcjDFa)
00:27:19 Ledger adding miniscript (bit.ly/3UmX4xX)
00:29:16 Trezor & Wasabi Join Forces To Make Bitcoin More Private (bit.ly/3BXXJOV)
00:30:03 Fulcrum added to bitcoinbinary (bit.ly/3DK4xBc)
00:37:51 btcd v0.23.1-beta, Aug 31 2022 (bit.ly/3Urjwpv)
00:38:04 Zeus v0.6.6, Aug 26 2022 (bit.ly/3f9vpjD)
00:39:24 Nunchuk implements bip21, Aug 31 2022 (bit.ly/3BZWG14)
00:39:57 BISQ v1.9.5, Aug 22 2022 (bit.ly/3LyPrR5)
00:41:01 Fountain Podcasts v0.4.8 (bit.ly/3f1ZTnH)
01:33:44 ATEC608A NRND (bit.ly/3xGWmBZ)
01:39:26 ETH merge (bit.ly/3SlgfWR)
01:51:21 Spiral - Private info retrieval block explorer (bit.ly/3BDto70)
01:56:03 US Treasury OFAC Releases Clarifications on Tornado Cash Sanctions (bit.ly/3S1PEyl)
01:57:05 BIP Proposal: Wallet Labels Export Format (bit.ly/3Sj5c17)
02:00:51 STARK - Zero knowledge bitcoin blockchain state prover (bit.ly/3C0oT8b)
02:03:09 Mullvad VPN hardware device (bit.ly/3f9LV3p)

Noteworthy

00:53:47 BIPBounty: Tax Deductible Bitcoin Bug Bounties (bit.ly/3LMxP4l)
00:59:34 Fedimint grant season (bit.ly/3S32zjP)
01:00:00 Tether Holds Firm on Decision Not To Freeze Tornado Cash Addresses (bit.ly/3UwFgAg)
01:01:04 New York Digital Investment Group Announces Lightning Accelerator Project “in Wolf’s Clothing” (bit.ly/3xHo1Ti)
01:01:49 Tadge Dryja joins Lightspark (https://bit.ly/3SoAZNG)
01:11:26 Shoutout, no bullshit bitcoin - (bit.ly/3DEqB05)
01:12:22 LN Explorer (bit.ly/3xIYF7k)
01:16:34 Ledger wallets now available at Best Buy (bit.ly/3BA10mr)

Bitcoin Optech Newsletter:

01:24:13 Bitcoin Core #23202 extends the psbtbumpfee RPC
01:25:08 Eclair #2387 adds support for fee bumping and signet
01:25:27 LDK #1652 updates support for onion messages w/ ability to send reply paths and decode them when received
01:25:36 HWI #627 adds support for P2TR keypath spends using the BitBox02 hardware signing device
01:33:22 BDK begins verifying both ECDSA and schnorr signatures immediately after the wallet creates them

02:18:00 Events:

OsloPlebs
Austin Bitcoin Design Club
BitBlockBoom
Baltic Honeybadger
BTCAzores
Bitcoin Amsterdam
The Bitcoin Collective
Atlanta Bitcoin Conf
Adopting Bitcoin
Unconfiscatable
Africa Bitcoin Conf

01:41 - COLDCARD Mk4 5.0.7 Sep 9 2022 bit.ly3BClP0f

05:56 - Core Lightning v0.12.0 Aug 24 2022 bit.ly3S5lr1m

12:43 - Blockclock 1.2.0 Sep 15 2022 bit.ly3BxSILG

13:34 - Spectre desktop v1.12.0 Aug 26 2022 bit.ly3qSWBWK

16:28 - Joinmarket v0.9.7 Aug 28 2022 bit.ly3qWoH3f

17:50 - NPM package for SeedXOR. bit.ly3C8BOFb

25:56 - RoboSats on Umbrel bit.ly3fcjDFa

27:19 - Ledger adding miniscript bit.ly3UmX4xX

29:16 - Trezor amp Wasabi Join Forces To Make Bitcoin More Private bit.ly3BXXJOV

30:03 - Fulcrum added to bitcoinbinary bit.ly3DK4xBc

37:51 - btcd v0.23.1beta Aug 31 2022 bit.ly3Urjwpv

38:04 - Zeus v0.6.6 Aug 26 2022 bit.ly3f9vpjD

39:24 - Nunchuk implements bip21 Aug 31 2022 bit.ly3BZWG14

39:57 - BISQ v1.9.5 Aug 22 2022 bit.ly3LyPrR5

41:01 - Fountain Podcasts v0.4.8 bit.ly3f1ZTnH

53:47 - BIPBounty Tax Deductible Bitcoin Bug Bounties nbspbit.ly3LMxP4l

59:34 - Fedimint grant season bit.ly3S32zjP

01:00:00 - Tether Holds Firm on Decision Not To Freeze Tornado Cash Addressesnbspbit.ly3UwFgAg

01:01:04 - New York Digital Investment Group Announces Lightning Accelerator Project in Wolfs Clothing

01:01:49 - Tadge Dryja joins Lightspark httpsbit.ly3SoAZNG

01:11:26 - Shoutout no bullshit bitcoin bit.ly3DEqB05

01:12:22 - LN Explorer bit.ly3xIYF7k

01:16:34 - Ledger wallets now available at Best Buy bit.ly3BA10mr Bitcoin Optech Newsletter

01:24:13 - Bitcoin Core 23202 extends the psbtbumpfee RPC

01:25:08 - nbspEclair 2387 adds support for fee bumping and signet

01:25:27 - nbspLDK 1652 updates support for onion messages w ability to send reply paths and decode them

01:25:36 - HWI 627 adds support for P2TR keypath spends using the BitBox02 hardware signing device

01:33:22 - BDK begins verifying both ECDSA and schnorr signatures immediately after the wallet creates them

01:33:44 - ATEC608A NRND bit.ly3xGWmBZ

01:39:26 - ETH merge bit.ly3SlgfWR

01:51:21 - Spiral Private info retrieval block explorer bit.ly3BDto70

01:56:03 - US Treasury OFAC Releases Clarifications on Tornado Cash Sanctions bit.ly3S1PEyl

01:57:05 - BIP Proposal Wallet Labels Export Format bit.ly3Sj5c17

02:00:51 - STARK Zero knowledge bitcoin blockchain state prover bit.ly3C0oT8b

02:03:09 - Mullvad VPN hardware device bit.ly3f9LV3p Noteworthy

02:18:00 - Events OsloPlebs Austin Bitcoin Design Club BitBlockBoom Baltic Honeybadger BTCAzores

WEBVTT

NOTE
Transcription provided by Podhome.fm
Created: 3/17/2024 4:22:52 PM
Duration: 8685.558
Channels: 1

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Hello, and welcome to the Bitcoin review podcast.

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The podcast where we fail at boringly reading the latest release notes and discuss project

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updates.

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So, this week we come back to the list. It's, I think episode 6

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and people seem to really have enjoyed the the wallet expert table on episode 5.

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But it's time for the list, and it's a beast of a list.

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I'm very, very happy to have more folks join. And today we have, Michael Gold

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Stein, known as Beatzstein,

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and we have Pierre Richard,

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known as Bitcoin is Savings,

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and we have, our returning guest, Matt O'Dell. It's, it's nice to have you guys. Thanks for having us on Rodolfo.

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Glad to be here.

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You there, Matt? Wait. Matt is muted. Sorry, guys. There you go. NVK muted me, but hello. Yeah. It was the fart the the fart soundboard.

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Alright, guys.

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So Bedstein and Pierre are new to the show.

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So, essentially, what we do here is

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we go through the software list,

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and we also talk about

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you're gonna have to cut this off. It's so bad.

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Anyways,

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let's just stuff the list on the chat.

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This is so good. Anyways, we don't cut anything in this show. Alright.

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So I'm gonna start strong here.

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So cold card mark 4 5.0.7

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is coming,

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probably next week.

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Enhancements is in older versions, multisig and FC import,

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not offered in the micro SD when it was inserted. Now it's now it's there.

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There is a new this one was a huge

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thing for me. It was a new menu wrap around.

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So when you get to the bottom of any menu, it goes back to the top. So you don't have to go all the way back to the top.

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This is my favorite, by the way. Right? I've been I've been, pestering at you about that for, I think, years now. So thank you. It was driving me insane. I actually forgot about it, but then I was doing a bunch of

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firmware testing, and I was like, hang on a second. This this needs to

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no. It's like,

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to the top of priority list. It's the single most important cold card update to date.

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And then now we have, there's there's this guy,

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a straylight orbit.

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I don't know exactly what he's working on, but he's been contributing a lot of, HSM updates.

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So there is a new command to ignore

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HSM command over USB

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by default,

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that's a security improvement.

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Now you can do dynamic HSM white listing

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so so that you can pick the the outputs that you want to to attest

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And then,

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and he also added a attestation signature signature,

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PSPT,

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in a in a proprietary field, which is kinda cool.

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And then there is a few bug fixes,

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parsing a non fields in PSPT,

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share single address over NFC,

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and oh, this one was interesting. So

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if you had used

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all the trick pins,

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we actually re turn over one of the slots on the secure elements, you could actually get yourself locked out.

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So but that's fixed.

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And, it is very rare because nobody uses all the TrickBings all at the same time. I like the I like the new Trick pin menu. It's nicer. Right? It's great. There's so many different options. It's like an if then that kind of thing. Wait. So if nobody uses all the trick pins, how'd you find out about this bug?

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Because somebody did, and he's like, listen, guys. I am not crazy. Okay? I do not. Because listen, 99999%

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of the time folks just forget their PIN. Right? And then they reach out to support, and this is before even this this feature. It's like, hey, you know, can you guys help me get into my cold card? I, you know, I can't log in. I'm like, what's kind of the whole point? If you if you don't know your PIN you can't get in.

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And then they could run through the 13

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fails and and then it's it's bad.

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So yeah. So so that's it. We we hope to release this one next week. There might be one more feature coming that's why it was not released.

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But, but I wanted to mention that bug case. Wait. So when this guy reached out and he said,

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I can't access it, didn't why didn't you think he was full of shit? Did you not respond like fuck you? Oh, no. No. We totally thought he was full of shit. And then we went and and of course, we always double check everything. So we went and we ran through every possible pin scenario. It's still not enough. We had to, like,

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really I I I don't understand where this guy found the time

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to to add as many trick pins as he did,

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but, he did manage to find the edge case, which is kinda cool. Well, I mean, I have a MK 3 that I just destroyed because it was on the 28 days later setting. And multiple times, I waited, like, a week or 2, and then the power cut. And it restarted, and I just gave up, and I just

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got rid of it. Yeah. That we can't help you with.

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There's a lot of, you know, we always say that if you're gonna really test the the trick pins

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or the break me pin, you might need to have an extra one.

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Anyways, so so yeah. So that's that's fixed.

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Oh and it's a we have a software fix for older bootloaders

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and then there is a new bootloader coming into new production that fixes that

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deep inside.

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Alright. Corelightning.

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0.12.0.

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Web 8 in it.

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So I don't know too much about core lightning.

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It is in c which is

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a nice thing.

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But now they keep track of where your Satoshis are in real time

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on lightning as historically being a bit of a challenge.

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Rusty has been

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direct to node plugin has been rewritten in C, well that's always nice.

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Emergency recover, a long requested feature,

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originally pioneered by LNG team with some marketing text here and commits.

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Static channel backups.

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That's nice.

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Added 0Conf and 0

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serve, m one architecture support. Okay. Cool. So you can use it on new Macs.

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Do you guys have any comments about core lightning or

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anything related to that update?

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I guess, I guess not.

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Nope. Never never I've never used it. I'm ashamed to say. I've only ever used LND.

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Oh, is it because, they they have,

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lightning.com?

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Actually Domains matter. No. No. It's it's way worse than that. It's because

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they have Windows.

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C lightning does not have Windows support. So that's that's the,

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you know, terrible reason why I've only ever used LND.

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Pierre uses Satoshi's vision.

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Yeah. Exactly. So he's he's stuck on Windows. I use the He uses Windows XP. The original 2009

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release of Bitcoin

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along with LND.

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Okay.

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I assume Pierre uses Windows because of his accounting background and all the accounting software of Macs are absolutely atrocious.

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That's right. And, of course, Microsoft Excel

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Microsoft Excel cannot have c sharp plug ins on Mac OS. So,

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somebody, you know, write a letter to Satya.

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I guess, Pierre, you've actually done some,

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bookkeeping stuff with lightning

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as your, residency

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project.

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Oh, that's cool. That's right. Yep. So it was it was, it is an Excel plugin,

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that communicates with your LND node

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and populates your Excel spreadsheet

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with all of the LND data.

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And it also allows you to pay invoices from within Excel.

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And so that way for business users who, you know, they might have, like, a list of a 1,000 invoices they need to pay for whatever reason, they could just, you know, pay it from the comfort of their spreadsheet.

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That's really cool. But I'm just imagining

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Excel security

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on the Windows

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talking to the node.

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Well, look. I mean, if

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Yeah. Get chat meme. Yeah. I I also have an Excel plugin that connects to a cold card. Oh, shit. No. No. No. I'm kidding. No. Cold card says no.

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Cold card says, please put condom on.

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No passwords.

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No. I'm kidding. You know, with those nowadays can be reasonably secured. Not not in a server, but How much value are you securing? Right? It this I I come back to this often. It's like Exactly. If it's just a small amount of money, you can use a browser extension. You can use a mobile app. If it's your life savings,

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don't do that. You know, be be more secure than that. Yes. Don't put your lights life savings on lightning, period.

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No. I keep it on MetaMask.

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Yeah. MetaMask

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with my NFTs. No. Now it's stuck. You can't spend it. It's perfect. It's Ethereum now has ultrasound security.

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You can't spend your money. LND does not own lightning.com

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yet. Oh, which one is it? Salesforce owns lightning.com.

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Oh, nice.

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Oh, that's why that's why,

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Pierre ended up in proprietary software.

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Yeah. I I hope that, someone will acquire Salesforce and, to put, you know, a proper landing page on lightning.com.

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I manage my channels with the Salesforce CRM.

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I use SAP.

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That's the future. I mean, that's that's a world we're moving towards,

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but,

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we're still very early. You know what's funny though? What was it? I think I don't know if it was SAP or Xero

144
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that actually added Bitcoin,

145
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capabilities to their system by, like, 5, 7 years ago. It was way back then,

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just so you could because, you know, Bitcoin, if you're gonna have like

147
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decimals,

148
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it's a lot of decimals. Right? And none of this accounting software could handle it.

149
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That's the standard.

150
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That's right.

151
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No. I still prefer BTC. I I just can't. My brain cannot go to SATs.

152
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I think you should just do binary. It can do ones and zeros right on the screen and problem resolved.

153
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Is there gonna be like a y two k situation with, all these companies trying to move

154
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to Bitcoin?

155
00:11:08.045 --> 00:11:09.745
No. I I think so

156
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back in the day, most software was not, like, very virtualized from the actual sort of logic of the programs and, like, modern sort of stacks for software and languages,

157
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abstract,

158
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enough

159
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of the actual stuff you're trying to do from

160
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how the software is made,

161
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you know, so you can protect your integers and all that stuff.

162
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Yeah. No. I I think I think I think, engineering for software is is greatly improved in that sense, But also became shit because everything should be embedded. But that's a whole different story.

163
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Yeah. That that's a good point though. But, I guess this is also what, Michael Sailor is specifically looking to do with MicroStrategy.

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Yep. Help all these dinosaurs,

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upgrade.

166
00:11:58.705 --> 00:12:03.125
Yeah. I mean, the thing you know, apparently, they they have, their own custom,

167
00:12:03.425 --> 00:12:08.350
accounting software. And it's funny because at Quaintite, we also have our custom accounting,

168
00:12:09.130 --> 00:12:15.390
software for the store that then plugs into the, you know, it has to interface with QuickBooks that accountants like to use.

169
00:12:15.945 --> 00:12:23.805
But, yeah, like once you have your own, like, accounting needs, especially with Bitcoin, you kinda like you don't want to use the old way of doing accounting.

170
00:12:24.185 --> 00:12:30.910
You really want to sort of like have your Bitcoin accounting and then you sort of transfer everything into USD denominated

171
00:12:31.290 --> 00:12:33.390
because that's really what the government cares about.

172
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Anyways.

173
00:12:36.205 --> 00:12:37.105
Yep. So,

174
00:12:37.965 --> 00:12:42.145
making accounting cool again. That's Bitcoin for you. Bitcoin fixes everything.

175
00:12:43.500 --> 00:12:45.920
Alright. Next, Block Clock 1.2.0

176
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was released yesterday. It's a small release.

177
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Now the micro,

178
00:12:52.695 --> 00:12:58.395
it's the same binary for both which is kinda cool. So we now support the Block Lock Micro,

179
00:13:00.180 --> 00:13:00.680
and,

180
00:13:01.300 --> 00:13:04.040
and, there is a new version for the mini.

181
00:13:04.980 --> 00:13:07.880
Wait. Let's see that again. It's fucking tiny. Yeah.

182
00:13:08.345 --> 00:13:11.485
Look at that. It's just like the Bitcoin price right now. Fucking tiny.

183
00:13:14.105 --> 00:13:16.925
So yeah. And, you you don't need to update,

184
00:13:17.400 --> 00:13:20.300
your Block Lock Mini. This update is kind of optional,

185
00:13:20.600 --> 00:13:23.580
not much for it. It just wanted to consolidate to a single

186
00:13:23.960 --> 00:13:26.540
binary so there is less stuff to be reviewed.

187
00:13:27.565 --> 00:13:30.465
You skipped 2 other updates, are you aware of that?

188
00:13:31.805 --> 00:13:35.905
Oh shit, yes. By scrolling happened here. Spectre desktop

189
00:13:36.660 --> 00:13:37.480
version 1.2.1.12.0.

190
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They added faucet

191
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xfun,

192
00:13:44.740 --> 00:13:45.240
extension.

193
00:13:45.865 --> 00:13:46.605
Oh, that's

194
00:13:47.145 --> 00:13:51.725
Stefan. And, DevTools adding full Python access via JavaScript for developers.

195
00:13:52.265 --> 00:13:55.700
So I guess you can automate things now. That just sounds

196
00:13:56.080 --> 00:13:58.100
horrifying. Yes. It it does. I got chills.

197
00:13:58.959 --> 00:14:00.820
Python through JavaScript. Yay.

198
00:14:03.115 --> 00:14:04.655
Right into your Excel plugin.

199
00:14:06.315 --> 00:14:07.775
It's a Sharp on Windows.

200
00:14:09.915 --> 00:14:10.415
Amazing.

201
00:14:11.330 --> 00:14:13.589
Do you guys remember that elect,

202
00:14:13.890 --> 00:14:17.990
the the the Chrome of 0 day vulnerability that happened recently?

203
00:14:18.975 --> 00:14:27.555
A lot of I don't know about Spectre, but a lot of this this, the UI on this multi platform systems is essentially Chrome

204
00:14:28.430 --> 00:14:29.410
wrapped, right?

205
00:14:29.790 --> 00:14:42.204
So technically all this software, if they're using whatever, if it is Chrome and that version could have been vulnerable to this. They call it Electron, right? Yes. So money poof and it's gone.

206
00:14:42.745 --> 00:14:45.699
That's why I used Qt for the node launcher,

207
00:14:46.399 --> 00:15:04.510
to make an cross platform without using Electron. Is that how it's pronounced? I don't know. Q t, cute. I I've never I've only ever read it. So I don't know how it's pronounced. This is the first time I heard that. I'll call it cute going forward. I kinda dig it. So, yeah, I don't QT is great. The problem with QT is that

208
00:15:05.370 --> 00:15:06.510
it it has this

209
00:15:07.380 --> 00:15:07.745
because

210
00:15:08.305 --> 00:15:11.365
the way they're trying to leverage the system for UI,

211
00:15:11.985 --> 00:15:12.705
they have this,

212
00:15:13.265 --> 00:15:16.885
relative spacing for things. It's like a relative unit for UI.

213
00:15:17.889 --> 00:15:19.750
It's very, very hard

214
00:15:20.290 --> 00:15:23.750
to get stuff to work. It is. Yeah. I mean,

215
00:15:24.449 --> 00:15:38.380
my thing was, like, I just gotta keep it as simple as possible because if I add anything, it's just gonna be a total mess to deal with. That's right. Have you guys used Kivy? I always wanted to find we we've been trying to find a Kivy person. Kivy is essentially

216
00:15:39.000 --> 00:15:41.180
a cross platform Python based

217
00:15:42.295 --> 00:15:43.755
wrapper. It was really nice.

218
00:15:44.295 --> 00:15:53.620
And like unit Unity, you sort of like just it's like, you know, like a a pixel world. Right? So you actually draw the stuff which means a lot more work too.

219
00:15:54.240 --> 00:15:56.705
Can you remind me what that Chrome zero day was?

220
00:15:57.825 --> 00:16:01.685
I can't remember the name of it, but it was recently. It was maybe a month or 2 ago.

221
00:16:02.865 --> 00:16:10.279
But, I mean, before we fud Specter, most people use it in, like, watch only mode. They they don't keep their keys on Specter.

222
00:16:11.060 --> 00:16:14.600
Yep. No. It's not meant to be FUDed. It's just meant to be upgraded.

223
00:16:15.060 --> 00:16:15.880
Please upgrade.

224
00:16:17.855 --> 00:16:21.235
Spector is great. It really is. And it's the first one

225
00:16:21.695 --> 00:16:22.755
they did a proper

226
00:16:23.470 --> 00:16:25.010
wrapper for Bitcoin Core,

227
00:16:25.390 --> 00:16:27.810
on the same desktop, which is really nice.

228
00:16:28.510 --> 00:16:29.970
Alright. Join market.

229
00:16:30.565 --> 00:16:34.105
The one and only true coinjoin implementation.

230
00:16:34.805 --> 00:16:40.790
Actually, I've heard that no other coinjoin implementations actually exist. So it's version 0.9.7.

231
00:16:42.530 --> 00:16:43.510
So they improved,

232
00:16:44.210 --> 00:16:47.665
so the Tumblr algorithm fix and cycling, this is an audible,

233
00:16:48.204 --> 00:16:48.704
networking

234
00:16:49.245 --> 00:16:54.865
no, reworking of the Tumblr algorithm mostly motivated by finding an error which was causing failure

235
00:16:55.380 --> 00:16:57.080
for people that tried

236
00:16:57.780 --> 00:17:02.680
to use more than default numbers mixed up. Anyways, long explanation here.

237
00:17:03.705 --> 00:17:05.005
Disallowing UTXOs

238
00:17:05.545 --> 00:17:06.925
with confirmed spans,

239
00:17:08.185 --> 00:17:09.565
new script to calculate

240
00:17:09.945 --> 00:17:13.005
Fidelity Bond Values. Fidelity Bonds are really cool.

241
00:17:13.690 --> 00:17:15.390
New display of available balances.

242
00:17:16.970 --> 00:17:18.670
RPC API updates.

243
00:17:19.050 --> 00:17:22.430
They added a schedule status and session endpoint.

244
00:17:23.515 --> 00:17:24.335
Tor updates.

245
00:17:24.955 --> 00:17:29.775
QT changes now allow access to the XPub information in the QT interface.

246
00:17:31.200 --> 00:17:31.700
Installation,

247
00:17:32.080 --> 00:17:33.700
the installation now will automatically

248
00:17:35.760 --> 00:17:40.385
check release GPG signatures for libsodium. Oh, that's nice and Tor.

249
00:17:41.105 --> 00:17:42.165
So that's cool.

250
00:17:43.505 --> 00:17:47.045
Everybody should try join markets if they want to coin joint

251
00:17:48.145 --> 00:17:48.885
over Tor.

252
00:17:50.940 --> 00:17:51.919
NPN package,

253
00:17:53.260 --> 00:17:59.040
TypeScript for seedxor. Oh yeah. So somebody did created an implementation for seedxor

254
00:18:00.255 --> 00:18:01.475
in, TypeScript.

255
00:18:02.335 --> 00:18:02.835
So,

256
00:18:03.615 --> 00:18:07.315
that means you could probably now very easily integrate CDXR

257
00:18:07.775 --> 00:18:08.435
on your,

258
00:18:09.390 --> 00:18:10.370
like, React JS

259
00:18:11.390 --> 00:18:14.049
app or any sort of JavaScript based,

260
00:18:14.350 --> 00:18:16.210
wallet. Do you guys use SeedXor?

261
00:18:17.035 --> 00:18:19.455
Nope. I I've played with it a bit though.

262
00:18:20.075 --> 00:18:22.255
It is probably one of the most underrated

263
00:18:23.115 --> 00:18:24.895
tools available to Bitcoiners.

264
00:18:25.400 --> 00:18:29.740
So much easier than multisig. You get a lot of benefits that are similar.

265
00:18:30.440 --> 00:18:32.285
Yeah. I mean, you know, if you're not

266
00:18:32.845 --> 00:18:34.945
if you're not ready for multisig yet,

267
00:18:35.645 --> 00:18:38.385
you know, this greatly greatly derisks

268
00:18:38.765 --> 00:18:40.065
your single sig

269
00:18:40.960 --> 00:18:41.779
seed backup.

270
00:18:43.519 --> 00:18:55.034
And this kind of encryption can it it it's nearly impossible to sort of like have a backdoor because you're just like soaring 2 values together. And you can recover without a computer, with paper.

271
00:18:55.640 --> 00:18:58.860
Right. Right. Although, you've you've recommended having,

272
00:19:00.440 --> 00:19:02.540
like, the the original seed still

273
00:19:02.914 --> 00:19:07.335
as a backdrop somewhere. I mean So there is there is still that that issue.

274
00:19:07.794 --> 00:19:08.695
Well, it depends.

275
00:19:09.075 --> 00:19:16.720
So I like to say that when I'm, like, suggesting to people in, say, a podcast or whatever just because I don't know where they are at with knowledge.

276
00:19:17.420 --> 00:19:31.429
But in this pod, it's a little different. I mean, most of the people who who get through this list normally already know some of this stuff. Right. So, you know, if you have high availability, say for example, you already have a few micro SD backups and, you know, so you have

277
00:19:32.049 --> 00:19:37.495
some means of of recovery in case you lose a part, I I think you're you're more safe,

278
00:19:37.955 --> 00:19:44.775
or maybe you have split funds. So what I do for newcomers now is I've just skipped the step of, like,

279
00:19:45.460 --> 00:19:55.925
saying, you know, use a ledger or a treasure or something for ease. I say, just get a cold card. And then when I onboard them onto the cold card, I tell them to keep a micro SD backup and then 2 pieces of steel,

280
00:19:56.465 --> 00:19:58.485
one of each part of the seed XOR.

281
00:19:58.785 --> 00:20:03.684
Yep. And then you just put them in 2 different places. And then for 99% of people, I feel like

282
00:20:04.340 --> 00:20:13.535
that's a pretty fucking fantastic setup. I mean, it is. Right? Because, you know, the the microSD backup, if you especially if you're using the proper industrial grade stuff, like,

283
00:20:14.575 --> 00:20:15.555
you're pretty safe,

284
00:20:16.095 --> 00:20:22.435
especially if you have 2 of those. And then if you have a house fire, you go find your 2 metal backups. Right? Like it's it's

285
00:20:23.330 --> 00:20:32.665
the the problem with the seed, especially if they don't have a passphrase is that, you know, somebody's gonna end up seeing that at some point even accidentally. Right? Or

286
00:20:33.125 --> 00:20:35.385
like a wife finds the seed

287
00:20:35.685 --> 00:20:41.480
the seed plate on the floor somewhere in the house, takes a picture and sends a text message. Honey, is this yours?

288
00:20:43.720 --> 00:20:45.179
And then poof, money gone.

289
00:20:47.080 --> 00:20:50.540
And, yeah. We we're gonna we're we're working on

290
00:20:50.885 --> 00:20:54.585
trying to add, 12, 12 word support as well for CDXR.

291
00:20:56.005 --> 00:20:57.785
Like, unfortunately, a lot of

292
00:20:58.500 --> 00:21:00.840
newcomers and whatever, they don't feel as

293
00:21:01.300 --> 00:21:03.240
as willing to work through 24

294
00:21:03.700 --> 00:21:06.440
holes, like, to punch 24 times 4.

295
00:21:06.804 --> 00:21:08.505
It's a lot of punching in that also,

296
00:21:09.365 --> 00:21:11.625
people have asked. We were trying to make it happen.

297
00:21:12.005 --> 00:21:13.945
I think of it as a, sort of,

298
00:21:14.630 --> 00:21:16.730
like, a meditative practice. Yes.

299
00:21:17.990 --> 00:21:19.049
Yeah. You know?

300
00:21:19.909 --> 00:21:24.044
If you don't have some of these in your desk, you know, you're not a real Bitcoiner.

301
00:21:24.905 --> 00:21:27.245
Yeah. Some of these things, I I think of it like,

302
00:21:29.470 --> 00:21:33.250
you know, the, the raspberry pie debates that people are having about nodes.

303
00:21:33.630 --> 00:21:39.015
It's like, for me, I just don't want it because I, I, I have not seen a beautiful raspberry pie setup.

304
00:21:39.415 --> 00:21:43.835
So even if it works, it's just like, you know, my node is something that is important

305
00:21:44.135 --> 00:21:47.435
and I think it should be treated with that sort of like sacredness.

306
00:21:48.659 --> 00:21:49.480
Yeah. No. Raspberry

307
00:21:50.179 --> 00:21:51.720
raspberry pies are a shit coin.

308
00:21:52.179 --> 00:21:53.720
Hey. Imagine paying $200

309
00:21:54.100 --> 00:21:54.840
for that

310
00:21:55.460 --> 00:21:58.865
piece of crap that is completely closed source from Broadcon.

311
00:21:59.645 --> 00:22:04.125
I think I saw that. I think they're working on some more open sourcing of,

312
00:22:05.520 --> 00:22:09.540
some firmware you can throw on it. I feel like I saw a headline for that the other day.

313
00:22:11.040 --> 00:22:14.420
I don't know. Knowing Broadcon, I I doubt that you ever find

314
00:22:14.785 --> 00:22:15.525
a way

315
00:22:15.905 --> 00:22:16.405
around,

316
00:22:16.945 --> 00:22:19.045
their crap. Like, that that's like a

317
00:22:19.585 --> 00:22:25.419
a a true true, like, bad actor in the hardware space, man. Those guys are are just brutal.

318
00:22:25.960 --> 00:22:28.139
Yeah. So on the c deck store,

319
00:22:29.000 --> 00:22:29.820
I think you've

320
00:22:30.600 --> 00:22:35.735
kind of been against it. But there is that method of creating a 2 of 3 seed XOR.

321
00:22:36.035 --> 00:22:43.760
Yes. And, I went through the process of doing it just to cause I wanted to see that magic. Because it it uses some weird set theory,

322
00:22:44.380 --> 00:22:49.945
to be able to construct this thing, and it worked. And it was really kinda magical thing to

323
00:22:50.405 --> 00:22:52.745
to work through it. You know, it took some time, but

324
00:22:53.045 --> 00:22:56.240
the idea that you could do that 2 of 3 by hand,

325
00:22:57.180 --> 00:23:01.520
was was very, very cool. And it really just shows the power of

326
00:23:01.820 --> 00:23:04.160
even these very, very basic

327
00:23:04.475 --> 00:23:05.294
crypto primitives.

328
00:23:05.595 --> 00:23:17.110
In fact, it's the most basic crypt crypto primitives that do the best job because it's literally just XOR, which is what, you know, like, a one time pad has always been, which is, you know, the perfect security,

329
00:23:18.210 --> 00:23:31.174
structure given you have a long enough key and all of that. That's right. No. I mean, one time pad is fantastic. When you think about when these things came about. Right? Like, you have, like, World War 1, World War 2. These guys trying to, like, deal with stuff through

330
00:23:32.200 --> 00:23:33.340
completely interceptible

331
00:23:33.720 --> 00:23:40.620
comms. Right? They used to have vinyl with the full key, and they would pay play the vinyl on both sides,

332
00:23:41.225 --> 00:23:45.645
you know, like, to get the the messaging and encrypted across. It's it's just pretty cool.

333
00:23:46.025 --> 00:23:52.890
Maybe at Bitcoin meetups, we should be, like, coming with binders full of one time pads to, There you go. To hand each other.

334
00:23:53.590 --> 00:23:59.850
You know, I imagine that they would trust nothing else for the nukes in in in in any country that has nukes.

335
00:24:03.415 --> 00:24:05.355
So yeah. So that's that's really cool.

336
00:24:06.135 --> 00:24:08.235
You know, I doubt that we're gonna support that

337
00:24:08.700 --> 00:24:11.040
that multi multi sig, that, multipart,

338
00:24:11.660 --> 00:24:17.440
CDXor just because it's the complexity increase and everything else. Just use multi sig if you get into that level.

339
00:24:17.764 --> 00:24:20.184
Right. Right. I just I'd like that it exists,

340
00:24:20.485 --> 00:24:31.280
and I and I'd liked the practice of it. I wish there was a BIP for it or something. So, you know, maybe I think we're gonna probably submit a BIP for cDEXOR so maybe it gets a little bit more, more views.

341
00:24:31.900 --> 00:24:34.925
Just so that we can get more people kinda looking at that complexity

342
00:24:35.545 --> 00:24:36.825
and standardizing it? Or

343
00:24:37.785 --> 00:24:39.405
no. I mean, just because it's cool.

344
00:24:41.530 --> 00:24:47.870
It should exist somewhere, like, you know, properly annotated and stuff. I like to see more wallets, like, supported natively.

345
00:24:48.330 --> 00:24:49.070
Be nice.

346
00:24:49.450 --> 00:24:49.950
Yeah.

347
00:24:50.465 --> 00:24:52.965
Yeah. I mean, I I am a I'm a true,

348
00:24:53.585 --> 00:24:54.885
Shamir secret hater.

349
00:24:55.665 --> 00:24:58.165
I think, I think it's, too much complexity

350
00:24:58.539 --> 00:25:02.559
to when you get to that complexity and it's all custom solutions, you should just use multisig.

351
00:25:03.500 --> 00:25:09.945
I have a random question for you because I was too lazy to test it out myself. With BIP 85,

352
00:25:10.645 --> 00:25:11.545
you can choose

353
00:25:12.085 --> 00:25:14.665
12 words, 18 words, 24 words.

354
00:25:15.620 --> 00:25:18.440
Are those are all are those all different wallets?

355
00:25:19.460 --> 00:25:19.960
Yes.

356
00:25:20.740 --> 00:25:27.184
Like, it doesn't generate the same wallet. Right? That's not possible. No. No. So no. It does. So for each index,

357
00:25:27.804 --> 00:25:29.505
you can export 1 of each.

358
00:25:30.125 --> 00:25:34.465
So if I do an 18 word seed versus a 12 word seed, it's the same set of addresses?

359
00:25:34.950 --> 00:25:37.850
No. Different wallet. Okay. That's what I thought.

360
00:25:38.309 --> 00:25:41.770
Yeah. So so just imagine, like, you have an index. Right?

361
00:25:42.134 --> 00:25:45.514
And then for each index, you can have one of each type of export.

362
00:25:45.815 --> 00:25:48.075
Gotcha. And they will be all different secrets.

363
00:25:49.095 --> 00:25:51.514
Anyways, for anyone, interested in Seedexor,

364
00:25:52.040 --> 00:25:52.940
check out CDXR.com.

365
00:25:54.440 --> 00:25:55.980
There is a domain for it.

366
00:25:56.920 --> 00:25:57.420
Okay.

367
00:25:57.720 --> 00:25:58.220
Robosats,

368
00:25:59.080 --> 00:26:01.340
now available as an app on Embro.

369
00:26:02.054 --> 00:26:09.115
Does anyone here use, Robosats? It's a pretty cool project. I I am not super familiar with it, but I keep on hearing interesting things about it.

370
00:26:09.894 --> 00:26:15.100
I tested it once. It's a very clean interface. It's nice that you can just use Tor Browser with it.

371
00:26:16.440 --> 00:26:19.100
So it's like a it's like a an exchange. Right?

372
00:26:19.495 --> 00:26:21.115
Yeah. It's mostly gift cards.

373
00:26:21.655 --> 00:26:23.595
Gift cards for sats over lightning.

374
00:26:24.375 --> 00:26:26.235
Gift cards are the original stablecoin?

375
00:26:26.950 --> 00:26:33.850
One of the companies I consulted for gave me, like, a $50 bullshit gift card that I converted on Robosats to sats.

376
00:26:34.505 --> 00:26:36.765
Are you talking about the CoinKite gift cards?

377
00:26:37.304 --> 00:26:44.270
No. Actually, a lot of people do use the CoinKite gift cards. Your quasi stable coin over there? That's right. We we are a full mint.

378
00:26:45.210 --> 00:26:50.890
No. I use it in Amazon. People like the Amazon gift cards. I don't know. It's because then they can sell to somebody else,

379
00:26:51.335 --> 00:26:53.435
very it's high highly salable.

380
00:26:54.615 --> 00:26:56.235
Probably more than the US dollar.

381
00:26:57.655 --> 00:27:01.850
So basically, this is where I go if I ever get a gift card that I don't

382
00:27:02.230 --> 00:27:04.810
want. Yeah. It's a good place to dump gift cards for sets.

383
00:27:05.270 --> 00:27:09.530
No k y c. Beautiful. Mind you, you're gonna lose a pretty penny on the

384
00:27:09.894 --> 00:27:18.809
on the exchange rate per dollar unit on the card. Well, if you keep keep holding the gift card, you're gonna lose that money too. But there is that too. I mean,

385
00:27:19.990 --> 00:27:24.250
Ledger adding Mini Script soon, so that's cool. It's nice to see Ledger

386
00:27:25.085 --> 00:27:26.705
because I've been bantering them,

387
00:27:27.085 --> 00:27:40.610
privately for for years. First about the node thing and then about supporting PSPT, which they added both. And now, the mini the mini script stuff is is kinda cool that they're getting there. We don't support that yet. We do support output descriptors

388
00:27:41.070 --> 00:27:41.890
on codecard,

389
00:27:42.544 --> 00:27:48.485
but we don't support mini scripts yet just because there's no market demand yet, and it's a lot of work. So

390
00:27:48.945 --> 00:27:50.565
but it's just nice to see

391
00:27:51.040 --> 00:27:52.340
players of that size

392
00:27:53.120 --> 00:27:56.260
sort of really pushing Bitcoin stuff instead of the Shecoin stuff.

393
00:27:57.040 --> 00:27:59.380
Is there a Python implementation of ManyScript?

394
00:27:59.975 --> 00:28:05.035
I don't know. Because I assume that that would also have to be added for you guys to to handle. Right?

395
00:28:05.655 --> 00:28:09.195
No. No. No. Are you guys could you guys use just the Rust version?

396
00:28:10.020 --> 00:28:11.240
No. We would just

397
00:28:11.940 --> 00:28:14.600
we would just write because it's just output descriptors.

398
00:28:17.115 --> 00:28:22.815
Right? It's just a more complex version of it because output descriptors were not complete.

399
00:28:24.955 --> 00:28:26.300
So, so yeah.

400
00:28:27.020 --> 00:28:33.680
So one cool thing because I was trying to to think right, because, you know, hardware wallets don't are not wallets. Right? They're just signing devices.

401
00:28:34.220 --> 00:28:34.720
So

402
00:28:35.655 --> 00:28:36.955
they don't really use

403
00:28:37.575 --> 00:28:46.320
the descriptors themselves. Right? They're just exporting it. So I was trying to think why would you add mini scripts to because you can just do the output descriptor version of that.

404
00:28:46.940 --> 00:28:47.680
But then

405
00:28:48.540 --> 00:28:51.440
one cool thing is that you could then then the Hadoop

406
00:28:51.924 --> 00:28:52.825
can be aware

407
00:28:53.125 --> 00:28:53.625
of

408
00:28:54.005 --> 00:28:57.465
the of the addresses, right, to double check that you own the addresses

409
00:28:59.550 --> 00:28:59.950
before,

410
00:29:00.350 --> 00:29:03.170
before you you let us sign. So it goes,

411
00:29:03.870 --> 00:29:06.290
don't sign it. You don't own this change address,

412
00:29:08.274 --> 00:29:11.575
which is, that's one attack vector there.

413
00:29:13.394 --> 00:29:14.855
Yeah. I think that'd be good.

414
00:29:15.235 --> 00:29:15.735
Yeah.

415
00:29:16.500 --> 00:29:20.040
Trezor and Wasabi joined forces to make Bitcoin more private.

416
00:29:20.660 --> 00:29:27.554
I'm a little biased on this one, but, I have I have I have opinions. Why why don't we, do you guys have opinions about,

417
00:29:28.415 --> 00:29:30.755
WhatsApp integration inside Ledger Suite?

418
00:29:31.215 --> 00:29:37.220
Trezor? None at all. No. My my my opinion is just that, this is certainly going to,

419
00:29:37.780 --> 00:29:39.480
wrestle some Jimmy's somewhere.

420
00:29:40.815 --> 00:29:41.795
Right. I mean,

421
00:29:42.335 --> 00:29:46.115
I I think I mean, aside from the coin joint implementation war,

422
00:29:46.575 --> 00:29:49.795
the I I I'm not sure how I feel about a a

423
00:29:50.480 --> 00:29:53.140
a nonphysically secure device over USB,

424
00:29:55.360 --> 00:29:57.380
doing this live on the Internet.

425
00:29:57.760 --> 00:29:58.900
Somehow it just

426
00:29:59.375 --> 00:30:00.995
it just makes me feel iffy.

427
00:30:01.695 --> 00:30:02.995
But it's cool to see.

428
00:30:03.535 --> 00:30:04.035
Yeah.

429
00:30:05.294 --> 00:30:08.434
Yeah. I noticed, we we skipped a thing about fulcrum,

430
00:30:09.440 --> 00:30:14.580
being added to Bitcoin binary. And if I remember correctly, it's not there's there's not a proof yet,

431
00:30:15.600 --> 00:30:16.659
but it's on there.

432
00:30:17.014 --> 00:30:17.514
And,

433
00:30:17.975 --> 00:30:22.315
I I've I've recently given Fulcom a try, and, I was impressed.

434
00:30:22.855 --> 00:30:25.930
My my problems with it are merely that, like,

435
00:30:26.490 --> 00:30:30.270
the the devs, I guess, they're a little more agnostic to,

436
00:30:31.050 --> 00:30:32.270
particular coins.

437
00:30:32.650 --> 00:30:33.710
They're big blockers.

438
00:30:34.255 --> 00:30:42.595
Yeah. The big blockers make the best Electrum implementations because they need to handle more data. Yeah. They have a lot more data to handle, so they thank you.

439
00:30:42.940 --> 00:30:48.000
So I guess, yeah, that's the that's the real, blessings we received from Roger Ver and

440
00:30:48.300 --> 00:30:50.480
everyone else was, more performant.

441
00:30:51.020 --> 00:30:51.840
Dead and airdrops.

442
00:30:52.554 --> 00:30:54.575
Like, before before fulcrum,

443
00:30:54.875 --> 00:31:00.470
the best the most efficient Electrum implementation was Electromax, which was also big blockers. That's right.

444
00:31:01.190 --> 00:31:01.690
Yeah.

445
00:31:02.150 --> 00:31:05.530
And, on Bitcoin binary, I almost forgot. So

446
00:31:06.710 --> 00:31:09.929
for people that don't know, bitcoin binary dot org

447
00:31:10.575 --> 00:31:12.674
is a place where you can submit,

448
00:31:13.615 --> 00:31:15.315
your own proof of

449
00:31:15.775 --> 00:31:17.395
reproducible build for projects,

450
00:31:18.190 --> 00:31:23.250
but we also built a a bot there that builds on video and then tweets the video

451
00:31:24.269 --> 00:31:27.865
of building that that project and Fulcrum does build.

452
00:31:28.325 --> 00:31:31.625
I mean, I haven't reviewed their project myself, but the

453
00:31:32.485 --> 00:31:40.760
the the build does build and checks. So that's kinda cool. So, if anyone has any projects that are reproducibly built,

454
00:31:41.220 --> 00:31:43.915
we we take pull requests and we would

455
00:31:44.315 --> 00:31:46.255
be more than happy to list it

456
00:31:46.875 --> 00:31:48.735
and, and build for everybody.

457
00:31:49.835 --> 00:31:55.050
So, like, what what what does that mean with, like, fulcrum? Like, what would fulcrum need to

458
00:31:56.150 --> 00:31:57.130
hit that mark?

459
00:31:57.590 --> 00:32:04.134
Because, like, if I just made a video, it's like, I could just I could write a script that goes through the whole build thing and then prints out the

460
00:32:04.755 --> 00:32:06.855
shawesome that people are looking for.

461
00:32:07.235 --> 00:32:13.230
So so this is this is the beauty of of, reproducible builds. Right? It's about a web of trust.

462
00:32:13.769 --> 00:32:14.269
So

463
00:32:15.304 --> 00:32:17.085
people are trusting that we

464
00:32:17.705 --> 00:32:18.924
are running the

465
00:32:19.225 --> 00:32:22.284
the the GitHub code that we have there on the GitHub actions

466
00:32:22.825 --> 00:32:23.485
to build

467
00:32:23.899 --> 00:32:34.525
fulcrum in the way that we claim to build. Right? Can you take that at face value? Probably not. But we are doing this if somebody submits their own and hosts their own video on YouTube,

468
00:32:34.825 --> 00:32:36.045
right now it's 2,

469
00:32:36.585 --> 00:32:40.125
now you have Fulcrum making their claim on their website, that's 3,

470
00:32:40.560 --> 00:32:43.060
Right? And maybe you double check. I mean,

471
00:32:43.520 --> 00:32:45.460
you know, like the efforts to

472
00:32:46.240 --> 00:32:46.980
to coerce

473
00:32:47.655 --> 00:32:48.635
all these people,

474
00:32:49.655 --> 00:32:51.435
you know, because of one extension,

475
00:32:52.135 --> 00:32:55.195
it's kinda funny, right, but it becomes kinda pointless. So

476
00:32:55.730 --> 00:32:57.509
that's the idea. It's just about raising

477
00:32:58.210 --> 00:33:02.389
that cost of attack so high that it becomes just silly for you to try to,

478
00:33:02.775 --> 00:33:05.355
you know, break into GitHub, change our,

479
00:33:06.054 --> 00:33:08.395
our code without us seeing it on GitHub,

480
00:33:08.934 --> 00:33:11.595
right, and and running it and, you know,

481
00:33:12.679 --> 00:33:17.960
so so yeah. It's just if more people do it, you just gain that web of trust,

482
00:33:18.360 --> 00:33:19.500
exponential safety.

483
00:33:20.575 --> 00:33:34.450
Right. So when I if if I were to get any of these pieces of software and I download it and I compile it myself and build and show that it has a SHAW sim, The value of me doing that is the fact that it's it's bit sting, and people

484
00:33:34.910 --> 00:33:39.225
think for some reason that I have, something valuable to add. And so

485
00:33:39.605 --> 00:33:42.985
they would they would say, oh, okay. Well, he is getting the same,

486
00:33:44.245 --> 00:33:46.664
shot value as me, and I kinda like that guy.

487
00:33:47.280 --> 00:33:54.820
And these other people that I like too that I I think they are good at handling Bitcoin software. They're coming to the same shots too.

488
00:33:55.385 --> 00:33:58.925
They would all have to be colluding or diluting each other,

489
00:33:59.945 --> 00:34:07.790
to have come to the same SHOS value unless that was the real one. That's correct. And it's very similar to to PGP's

490
00:34:08.090 --> 00:34:10.350
web of thrust. Right? They sign each other's signatures

491
00:34:10.970 --> 00:34:11.950
in person ideally.

492
00:34:12.454 --> 00:34:17.434
So so this is very similar, right, like you're essentially making GitHub commit, right, which is a point in history

493
00:34:18.055 --> 00:34:21.035
that it's stuck in a Merkle tree in a blockchain

494
00:34:23.050 --> 00:34:27.630
and, you're essentially claiming that he did what he did. Right? So there is a reputation

495
00:34:28.994 --> 00:34:29.734
component to

496
00:34:30.035 --> 00:34:31.974
it, and then there is essentially

497
00:34:32.275 --> 00:34:37.815
a a proof set. Right? So with more proofs in a set that that sort of claim the same thing.

498
00:34:38.200 --> 00:34:42.460
Yeah. I guess you could g p g sign the the commit as well. That's true. Really

499
00:34:42.760 --> 00:34:43.260
hardcore.

500
00:34:43.960 --> 00:34:48.595
I think that does bring up, like, a a kind of broader thing about cryptography is like,

501
00:34:49.135 --> 00:34:52.275
in in a lot of cryptography, it's not that the

502
00:34:52.735 --> 00:34:55.235
the math is in and of itself

503
00:34:56.529 --> 00:34:57.029
meaningful.

504
00:34:57.650 --> 00:34:59.589
It's it's being able to create,

505
00:35:01.410 --> 00:35:04.230
pieces of data that are socially useful.

506
00:35:05.585 --> 00:35:06.885
Yeah. You have interdependence.

507
00:35:07.185 --> 00:35:07.685
Right?

508
00:35:08.465 --> 00:35:09.845
And provable interdependence.

509
00:35:10.305 --> 00:35:10.805
It's

510
00:35:11.425 --> 00:35:15.790
it's it's it's amazing how, like, a very simple non dramatic

511
00:35:16.650 --> 00:35:21.390
version of software testing. Right? So essentially, like, we we don't do the negative.

512
00:35:21.744 --> 00:35:30.565
Right? I don't wanna get into sort of spats of projects and stuff. If they build, then great. Then we list. If they don't build, then they're not listed. Right?

513
00:35:31.549 --> 00:35:32.369
So like

514
00:35:33.309 --> 00:35:44.545
essentially you just take your inference from saying, hey, this project's built, therefore I'm gonna use these. We don't have to like get into drama or shit on other projects or anything. It's just,

515
00:35:44.845 --> 00:35:46.625
you know, you build or don't build.

516
00:35:47.400 --> 00:35:52.460
I I like this this mold a lot better because there is other sites out there that sort of review,

517
00:35:53.079 --> 00:35:55.819
bitcoin projects and then they end up in this griefed

518
00:35:56.315 --> 00:36:00.495
sort of like problem where they don't have necessarily the budget

519
00:36:02.155 --> 00:36:03.935
to do things but then they essentially

520
00:36:04.920 --> 00:36:11.340
grieved projects saying hey, if you don't give me money I'm not gonna change, I'm not gonna spend the time to change

521
00:36:11.765 --> 00:36:14.745
the fact that I was not able to build. It creates this terrible,

522
00:36:15.525 --> 00:36:16.905
terrible incentive set

523
00:36:17.285 --> 00:36:19.065
for for the project. It's

524
00:36:19.369 --> 00:36:27.310
it's horrific. And I wanted to solve that problem because it was pissing me off that just incompetent people couldn't build my projects where everybody else could.

525
00:36:27.745 --> 00:36:32.885
And I figure a lot of people felt the same way. So, hey, let's expand that pie and do that.

526
00:36:33.185 --> 00:36:34.965
I I'm calling this open security,

527
00:36:35.640 --> 00:36:36.140
and

528
00:36:36.599 --> 00:36:40.619
we have another project coming that's essentially a watchtower for,

529
00:36:41.160 --> 00:36:42.299
PGP signatures.

530
00:36:43.559 --> 00:36:44.539
Sorry, like

531
00:36:45.495 --> 00:36:46.395
signed binaries

532
00:36:46.695 --> 00:36:54.075
on Bitcoin projects. So we're gonna we're still sort of it's a side project so it keeps on being bumped, but we kinda got halfway there

533
00:36:54.440 --> 00:36:56.300
where, we're gonna be watching

534
00:36:57.000 --> 00:37:01.020
all the Bitcoin binaries, like Bitcoin project binaries on their sites,

535
00:37:01.825 --> 00:37:06.725
right, to see if it changes. And if it changes, does it if it matches

536
00:37:07.185 --> 00:37:09.445
the signature of the of the

537
00:37:11.460 --> 00:37:12.359
of the maintainer.

538
00:37:13.700 --> 00:37:15.400
And if it doesn't, we go like,

539
00:37:15.859 --> 00:37:19.960
you know, like computer. It's like, it doesn't match. Don't download. Don't download.

540
00:37:20.485 --> 00:37:22.345
Or go check or whatever. Right?

541
00:37:22.645 --> 00:37:25.145
I think these very tiny little things are so helpful.

542
00:37:26.565 --> 00:37:28.585
How many side projects do you have?

543
00:37:29.300 --> 00:37:30.980
There's always a side project. It's,

544
00:37:31.540 --> 00:37:32.840
I don't know. It's impressive.

545
00:37:33.300 --> 00:37:38.520
Yeah. I I I love it. You're you're building, like, a whole, you know, Bitcoin security empire.

546
00:37:40.285 --> 00:37:43.825
Bitcoins. That's funny. Yeah. Full stack, like,

547
00:37:44.445 --> 00:37:45.185
it's fantastic.

548
00:37:46.250 --> 00:37:49.070
But, you know, it's one of those things that somebody's gotta make it. Right?

549
00:37:49.450 --> 00:37:51.390
Just skip b t c d too.

550
00:37:51.930 --> 00:37:54.270
Okay. So b t c d beta

551
00:37:54.890 --> 00:37:55.390
has

552
00:37:56.075 --> 00:37:57.295
one, entry

553
00:37:57.835 --> 00:38:00.494
for a commit, so I am not reading it.

554
00:38:01.515 --> 00:38:03.775
They have a new version. It stays at that.

555
00:38:04.930 --> 00:38:06.150
Okay. Zeus.

556
00:38:06.690 --> 00:38:08.310
Zeus version 0.6.6.

557
00:38:11.010 --> 00:38:13.030
New feature, reproducible builds.

558
00:38:13.685 --> 00:38:14.185
Yay.

559
00:38:14.485 --> 00:38:19.145
Guess where it's gonna end up? On bitcoin binary dot org. Do you guys use Zeus?

560
00:38:20.565 --> 00:38:21.465
I have before.

561
00:38:22.130 --> 00:38:23.590
No. I use, Phoenix.

562
00:38:24.530 --> 00:38:26.630
You don't use Zeus with your own node,

563
00:38:27.330 --> 00:38:27.910
up here?

564
00:38:28.370 --> 00:38:29.350
I use Phoenix.

565
00:38:29.835 --> 00:38:34.174
But not with your own node. Right? Phoenix is, I have no idea. You use it

566
00:38:34.555 --> 00:38:35.934
as, like, a spending wallet?

567
00:38:36.234 --> 00:38:37.615
I I don't know.

568
00:38:38.609 --> 00:38:39.670
It it just works.

569
00:38:40.369 --> 00:38:44.630
Someone's Excel plugin somewhere is running that thing. Yeah. It's an Excel plugin.

570
00:38:44.930 --> 00:38:47.815
I am on I am on the on the hosted,

571
00:38:48.275 --> 00:38:49.895
lightning bandwagon too.

572
00:38:50.355 --> 00:39:11.510
Well, anyway, Phoenix is a great spending wallet. It's probably the best spending wallet, like mobile first wallet. Really? Asus is is Outside out. Pretty much in a league of its own when it comes to using your own node at home or wherever. So it's did. Evan Evan rebuilt the UI, right, of, Zeus too? The UI is fantastic. I use it I I use it primarily with my podcasting 2 point o node,

573
00:39:12.450 --> 00:39:20.115
and I use it primarily to like, when I'm drinking with Bitcorners to show them how cool it is that the sats just constantly coming into the node.

574
00:39:20.815 --> 00:39:22.915
But the UI is fantastic now.

575
00:39:24.655 --> 00:39:25.155
Now,

576
00:39:26.090 --> 00:39:30.990
let me just find here for Nunchuk. I have a small update here, but that's not a release.

577
00:39:33.370 --> 00:39:35.310
So they implemented BIP 21.

578
00:39:37.035 --> 00:39:39.135
Let me see if I can find their releases.

579
00:39:45.380 --> 00:39:47.720
I can't remember where they are. Well, anyways,

580
00:39:48.180 --> 00:39:51.560
so they implemented BIP 31 21. I think there is no

581
00:39:52.180 --> 00:39:56.705
recent software release yet, so wait for the next show to hear more about Nunchuk.

582
00:39:57.965 --> 00:39:59.185
Bisc version

583
00:39:59.485 --> 00:39:59.985
1.9.5.

584
00:40:01.760 --> 00:40:06.420
The server release introduced a new p two p status indicator as Bitcoin Core

585
00:40:06.880 --> 00:40:08.180
version 23 compatibility

586
00:40:09.405 --> 00:40:11.905
and makes bug fixes and minor improvements.

587
00:40:14.125 --> 00:40:18.305
So is Bisq still big? I haven't looked into Bisq in a while.

588
00:40:20.990 --> 00:40:32.204
I assume you guys don't use I've never used it. No. I feel like the importance of the importance of bisque is that it just exists. So if you absolutely need to use it, it exists.

589
00:40:32.505 --> 00:40:34.045
But I I feel like it's

590
00:40:34.480 --> 00:40:36.420
very rarely someone's first choice.

591
00:40:37.200 --> 00:40:38.660
Yeah. I mean, you know, decentralized

592
00:40:39.119 --> 00:40:39.619
exchanges

593
00:40:40.000 --> 00:40:42.580
are are kinda like very high friction. Right?

594
00:40:43.125 --> 00:40:50.825
I like well, the entrance of Robosats is a perfect example, and now Peach, where it's like, if you can if you can get away with a little bit of centralization

595
00:40:51.960 --> 00:40:53.660
for convenience and better UX,

596
00:40:54.359 --> 00:40:59.580
people are gonna choose that first. But if they get shut down, then Bisq still exists.

597
00:41:00.440 --> 00:41:00.940
Cool.

598
00:41:01.785 --> 00:41:03.645
Fountain podcast version

599
00:41:04.905 --> 00:41:05.405
0.4.8.

600
00:41:07.945 --> 00:41:09.405
Hot and fountain discover

601
00:41:09.865 --> 00:41:10.365
discoverability,

602
00:41:11.250 --> 00:41:11.990
more discoverability,

603
00:41:13.090 --> 00:41:16.470
faster boosts, faster time stamping, time stamp clips,

604
00:41:17.170 --> 00:41:18.550
and ticked away your referrals.

605
00:41:19.404 --> 00:41:23.984
Yeah. So fountain just, like, the the app was a bit sort of chugging

606
00:41:24.365 --> 00:41:28.545
a bit. It was clunky. Yeah. It's yeah. It seems to be getting better.

607
00:41:29.530 --> 00:41:32.430
The the hot on fountain, I feel like is a big

608
00:41:33.130 --> 00:41:37.310
it it's it seems so obvious, but it it is a big change because,

609
00:41:37.645 --> 00:41:45.185
you know, usually with, like, Apple Podcasts, like, you have the top charts. Right? And the podcasters are obsessed with the top charts, and it's just a completely

610
00:41:45.920 --> 00:41:49.620
closed system. No one really knows how the top charts work.

611
00:41:50.880 --> 00:41:56.345
The top charts that Fountain implemented is straight up how many sats has that episode received,

612
00:41:57.765 --> 00:42:01.224
which can still be gained like a podcast. You can send sats themselves,

613
00:42:02.005 --> 00:42:04.265
with sock puppet accounts or whatever, but

614
00:42:04.840 --> 00:42:10.860
it it seems like a a massive step up improvement in terms of, like, okay. Here's actual value that's determining

615
00:42:11.240 --> 00:42:16.615
the charts. You know, podcast 2.0 is gonna happen anytime now. I made a whole $20 for all

616
00:42:16.995 --> 00:42:18.535
the episodes of this show.

617
00:42:18.995 --> 00:42:19.450
I actually I

618
00:42:28.445 --> 00:42:32.065
I just I just don't I I fail to see how podcast 2.0,

619
00:42:33.805 --> 00:42:35.665
takes over. I I'm a fan of ads.

620
00:42:36.039 --> 00:42:38.779
Put the ads in. I hate them. I skip them.

621
00:42:39.079 --> 00:42:45.259
Everybody wins. You know? It's like a lump sum for the producer, and and I don't think we're gonna go away from ads anytime soon.

622
00:42:45.655 --> 00:42:46.155
But,

623
00:42:46.855 --> 00:42:47.175
but,

624
00:42:47.655 --> 00:43:00.470
the fun though of knowing that there's people who like your show and sort of, like, wants to, like, sort of send you some sats to let you know that you liked it It's really cool. It's like getting a gift. Right? It's like somebody sends you a bottle of whiskey or something when you do something nice for them.

625
00:43:00.770 --> 00:43:01.590
That I love.

626
00:43:02.055 --> 00:43:16.300
I mean, I I look at it the same way, like I said, with Bisk, which is, you know, this idea that that people have to be holding to the ad model is is is like corruption at its core. Like, if you look at, like, the issues we have with corporate media,

627
00:43:16.920 --> 00:43:21.180
I mean, the issues are that their business model is is their ad partners.

628
00:43:21.674 --> 00:43:29.135
Right? So if you're starting a new podcast, the fact that you have the ability to get direct funding from your audience with with minimal

629
00:43:29.674 --> 00:43:30.174
middlemen

630
00:43:31.700 --> 00:43:38.359
is a massive step improvement, and it's just, like, no very few people use lightning right now. Right? So it's it's gonna take some time.

631
00:43:39.035 --> 00:43:43.455
But I could see a world in 5 years, 6 years where some new person comes out with a podcast

632
00:43:43.915 --> 00:43:46.015
from some random place in the world.

633
00:43:46.400 --> 00:43:52.900
Maybe they have a low cost of living and they're able to just immediately start receiving funds directly from their audience. That's empowering.

634
00:43:53.675 --> 00:43:57.695
I mean, listen. You know, in Ramallah, $20 will go a long way. So,

635
00:43:58.474 --> 00:44:03.830
you know, they can have a podcast that from from a place where they have capital controls

636
00:44:04.290 --> 00:44:04.790
and

637
00:44:05.170 --> 00:44:06.070
and do well.

638
00:44:06.930 --> 00:44:10.470
I'm pretty skeptical of any of these, like, sort of

639
00:44:12.275 --> 00:44:12.775
micropayments

640
00:44:13.075 --> 00:44:18.755
models. I I know someone was on Marty's podcast arguing that, you know, maybe Nick Zaba was wrong about,

641
00:44:19.474 --> 00:44:21.060
mental accounting costs

642
00:44:22.260 --> 00:44:23.320
with, micropayments.

643
00:44:23.940 --> 00:44:25.720
But then the sort of solutions

644
00:44:26.580 --> 00:44:27.560
that were being,

645
00:44:28.180 --> 00:44:39.224
put forward, how it like, it gets overcome, We're really just kind of validating Nexavo by saying that people would move towards a subscription model where you say, okay. Well, I'm I will give up to this amount,

646
00:44:39.850 --> 00:44:49.245
and let the computer just send according to that. And it's like, you might as well just pay the, you know, I don't even know what Netflix cost per month now, but they have their monthly cost.

647
00:44:49.885 --> 00:44:54.145
Yeah. Businesses are gonna have a seriously hard time doing any kind of subscription

648
00:44:54.445 --> 00:44:55.185
with Bitcoin

649
00:44:55.805 --> 00:44:57.825
because Bitcoin is push not pull.

650
00:44:58.500 --> 00:45:03.480
And if there is one thing we know about customers is that unless you take it without their permission every month,

651
00:45:03.780 --> 00:45:05.480
they're not gonna give it to you.

652
00:45:06.105 --> 00:45:09.725
Yeah. Maybe that's a good thing, though. Maybe that means that you're gonna have to actually

653
00:45:10.025 --> 00:45:10.845
to continually

654
00:45:11.625 --> 00:45:14.105
give them value as opposed to I mean, I

655
00:45:14.985 --> 00:45:15.485
because

656
00:45:15.900 --> 00:45:18.319
how how many people yeah. I mean, there's there's also, like,

657
00:45:18.619 --> 00:45:19.599
gym gyms

658
00:45:19.900 --> 00:45:30.145
are notorious for basically doing this. They get you they get you hooked, and then you never go to the gym again after January is up. And you still you still pay, which is why you should always use a disposable,

659
00:45:31.005 --> 00:45:33.585
card for things like that just in for anything

660
00:45:34.000 --> 00:45:36.900
something like that you should stick with. But, like, anything that

661
00:45:37.440 --> 00:45:39.839
you don't know for sure if you're gonna stick with,

662
00:45:40.240 --> 00:45:43.780
because these people can also then be crooks with it where it's like,

663
00:45:44.465 --> 00:45:48.245
you know, even after you say, I no longer want to be a part of this gym,

664
00:45:48.945 --> 00:46:08.875
there's a big problem with, companies like that still pulling money. So on the other hand, if you have a subscription model, but you have to actually say, yes, I want to give this person $5 this month. Like, you know, imagine imagine an app where it's your monthly bills and it lists all the stuff and it has some stats about it's like Approve. Approve. Approve. Approve. Approve.

665
00:46:09.627 --> 00:46:10.580
To 20

666
00:46:11.040 --> 00:46:11.540
hours

667
00:46:11.840 --> 00:46:12.080
of,

668
00:46:12.720 --> 00:46:13.620
Bitcoin review,

669
00:46:14.720 --> 00:46:16.100
which is only 1 episode,

670
00:46:16.400 --> 00:46:27.945
but you listen to 20 hours. Are you willing to give $5 again? And you just go down the list of the different stuff that you subscribe to, and it kinda gives you those stats and you say yes or no. I would imagine that

671
00:46:28.390 --> 00:46:29.510
you'd get way more,

672
00:46:29.990 --> 00:46:33.850
value out of the the content. And I would it would send a good,

673
00:46:34.870 --> 00:46:36.410
you know, signals to creators

674
00:46:36.835 --> 00:46:39.575
to continually improve and and all of that.

675
00:46:40.835 --> 00:46:49.950
So I think we're we're the sort of podcast this is me. I have no experience. I have not set sets. I have not received sets for, like, for for podcasts or anything.

676
00:46:51.690 --> 00:46:52.190
What

677
00:46:52.730 --> 00:46:53.790
what I think

678
00:46:54.505 --> 00:46:56.125
is valuable about it

679
00:46:56.425 --> 00:47:03.645
probably in my own head is it's a good sort of onboarding mechanism. It's like, hey. I'm gonna check out this podcast.

680
00:47:04.630 --> 00:47:10.970
I'll give it, you know, however, you know, 2Â¢ per per minute. I don't know what the going rate is.

681
00:47:11.674 --> 00:47:14.974
But I'll I'll give it a little bit of money just to to be nice.

682
00:47:15.515 --> 00:47:24.770
And I wanna check it out. And then once you've done that, you can see, okay. How much did I actually value this thing? Okay. I'm gonna start giving it this amount per month. So it's like a way to, like,

683
00:47:25.150 --> 00:47:27.490
onboard you onto a subscription model.

684
00:47:28.045 --> 00:47:34.065
Personally, I think McDonald's can replace that by just making an ad. Are you loving it? And that's it.

685
00:47:34.685 --> 00:47:35.665
That's fair too.

686
00:47:35.965 --> 00:47:36.465
Yeah.

687
00:47:36.970 --> 00:47:42.510
Podcast apps too. In instead of all this, you know, podcast apps could do a better job of

688
00:47:42.810 --> 00:47:45.335
figuring out ad blocking. Like, use

689
00:47:45.875 --> 00:47:48.935
AI to figure out where the ad is so that you can,

690
00:47:49.395 --> 00:47:52.135
I I've seen this in a few podcasts

691
00:47:52.670 --> 00:47:56.450
in I guess, I use Overcast? I think it's a fantastic app.

692
00:47:58.590 --> 00:48:04.835
And I've seen some podcasts have chapters and it actually cut off where the ad is. And you could just,

693
00:48:05.295 --> 00:48:10.755
it would automatically skip to where the ad is over. So I could imagine you could build AI

694
00:48:11.220 --> 00:48:13.480
that somehow, you know, recognizes this,

695
00:48:14.580 --> 00:48:17.080
and and disabled to to skip over.

696
00:48:17.460 --> 00:48:21.185
I mean, maybe somebody creates an inverted system where,

697
00:48:22.445 --> 00:48:23.985
essentially as a sponsor,

698
00:48:25.645 --> 00:48:26.865
I give a budget,

699
00:48:27.220 --> 00:48:27.720
say,

700
00:48:28.260 --> 00:48:31.320
to Apple Podcasts. Right? And then Apple Podcasts

701
00:48:32.020 --> 00:48:32.520
finds

702
00:48:32.820 --> 00:48:35.800
the best audiences for my ad dollars,

703
00:48:36.265 --> 00:48:42.845
right, and somehow, I don't know, gets the creators I don't know. Well, so Fountain has something like that where

704
00:48:44.030 --> 00:48:50.450
they have ads that then pay you to listen to them. They pay they stream the listener sets rather than

705
00:48:51.070 --> 00:48:58.935
the podcaster sets. Yeah. It's an interesting model. I you know, it's one of those things that, like, I just like the fact that people are trying different stuff.

706
00:48:59.810 --> 00:49:16.405
You know, go out there and try different stuff. And some things will stick, some won't, and maybe you tweak it and maybe find a nice market fit for something new. The other thing that, like, Bittstein kind of triggered in my head is is that so, like, my favorite podcast app is antennapod, completely false.

707
00:49:16.830 --> 00:49:19.170
They've never had a business model. They just

708
00:49:19.470 --> 00:49:21.810
donate their time to open source work.

709
00:49:23.070 --> 00:49:25.944
If they're trying to integrate podcasting 2.0,

710
00:49:26.325 --> 00:49:32.424
if they integrate podcasting 2.0, they actually get a cut of all the stream sets Right. On their app. So all of a sudden,

711
00:49:32.930 --> 00:49:33.750
there's a business model

712
00:49:34.130 --> 00:49:37.990
for podcast app creators that isn't, you know, harvest user data

713
00:49:38.850 --> 00:49:40.310
and and surveil them.

714
00:49:41.015 --> 00:49:44.075
Yeah. Yeah. I think what what Overcast does,

715
00:49:44.535 --> 00:49:45.035
is

716
00:49:45.575 --> 00:49:52.780
they have ads for a free version, or you can pay them $10 a year to not have the ads. That's what I love about Spotify.

717
00:49:53.800 --> 00:50:01.205
Yeah. And, I mean, you always have to just trust what people are saying on the back end because you you can't see what people are running on the back end. But,

718
00:50:01.825 --> 00:50:05.765
I I assume given the guy I I forget his name, but the guy that makes it, he,

719
00:50:06.225 --> 00:50:07.185
he's the guy that made,

720
00:50:08.100 --> 00:50:11.800
was it Instapaper? Like, the original what Instapaper is? Right.

721
00:50:12.180 --> 00:50:15.220
So he he he cares about, you know, kind of,

722
00:50:16.180 --> 00:50:17.320
privacy stuff.

723
00:50:18.164 --> 00:50:19.224
And for that,

724
00:50:20.005 --> 00:50:22.345
somewhere in the the terms, it said how,

725
00:50:22.805 --> 00:50:33.970
there's only very specific data that goes to the advertisers, which is how many people saw this and how many people clicked on it. Stuff like that. Where none of it is, like, actually using your information.

726
00:50:35.345 --> 00:50:39.525
And, it's just it's a very slick app. So, I mean, if if they implemented,

727
00:50:40.385 --> 00:50:45.480
lightning 2.0 in it, I'd probably, you know, just give it a shot just to to have fun with it.

728
00:50:46.040 --> 00:50:50.220
But I'm also just excited to see, like like you guys are saying, that people are trying this.

729
00:50:50.920 --> 00:50:51.820
And I think

730
00:50:52.215 --> 00:51:01.115
Adam Curry is right about just the power of RSS. I think RSS has been greatly underrated, and there's a reason Google killed it.

731
00:51:01.530 --> 00:51:10.510
And they got rid of, Google Reader and pushed all of, like, the the amp and all that stuff. It's a it's a very powerful medium. And I think it does create

732
00:51:11.375 --> 00:51:13.715
just you you could have a whole market for indexers,

733
00:51:14.415 --> 00:51:18.835
and RSS could be, you know, used for all sorts of different applications

734
00:51:19.220 --> 00:51:23.640
which we already see. I I subscribe to a lot of YouTube channels, not through YouTube because,

735
00:51:24.260 --> 00:51:32.365
I don't wanna be, like, logged into YouTube all the time. But I could there's a way to do it through RSS so I can get all the YouTube videos I want. Adam's indexer gets paid

736
00:51:32.745 --> 00:51:39.470
a cut. He takes one percent of the podcasting 2 point o revenue that goes through his index. Do you know what somebody should make?

737
00:51:39.850 --> 00:51:41.390
A indexing system

738
00:51:42.035 --> 00:51:46.775
where people essentially mix match from other feeds, so they recurate

739
00:51:47.235 --> 00:51:48.615
episodes of podcasts.

740
00:51:48.995 --> 00:51:50.855
Mhmm. And then that resyndication,

741
00:51:52.180 --> 00:51:55.400
there is some, like, revenue split there or something.

742
00:51:55.700 --> 00:51:57.240
Because I would pay,

743
00:51:57.940 --> 00:52:04.325
like, a buck to have a feed of, like, multiple podcast episodes on a specific topic.

744
00:52:05.345 --> 00:52:15.420
Like, because there is, like, the wealth of knowledge out there in podcast is insane. Right? But I, you know, I don't necessarily wanna subscribe to a specific pod and and so I'd love to have, like, resyndication

745
00:52:16.280 --> 00:52:17.020
per topic.

746
00:52:17.405 --> 00:52:20.945
And it could be sort of automated too, all kinds of stuff people can do,

747
00:52:21.245 --> 00:52:27.570
especially with machine learning and just sort of trying to to get the topics and stuff and and just charge a buck and and and pay the podcasters

748
00:52:27.950 --> 00:52:29.090
for that syndication,

749
00:52:29.390 --> 00:52:30.130
the resyndication.

750
00:52:31.070 --> 00:52:32.770
I think that would be really cool.

751
00:52:33.765 --> 00:52:38.265
I also you know, there's there's a lot of podcasts now that, they use Substack

752
00:52:38.645 --> 00:52:43.520
or Patreon or some of these other paywalls. And it's like, they'll do something like,

753
00:52:44.319 --> 00:52:46.980
get get they'll do, like, half an episode free.

754
00:52:47.839 --> 00:52:55.805
And then if you want the whole thing, you know, go go subscribe. It's It's like, I don't wanna pay the whole, you know, monthly thing for this one episode I wanna hear.

755
00:52:56.185 --> 00:52:59.964
I haven't yet been sold on, you know, being being a pay pig for,

756
00:53:00.660 --> 00:53:02.520
your your whole operation here.

757
00:53:03.059 --> 00:53:07.319
So it would also be nice, you know, if more of these places just had a way to, like,

758
00:53:07.725 --> 00:53:09.505
pay for 1 episode or,

759
00:53:10.205 --> 00:53:15.425
have lightning 2 point o in a sense of, you know, hey, I wanna listen up to this amount

760
00:53:15.760 --> 00:53:17.220
to see where it is. Maybe

761
00:53:17.520 --> 00:53:20.819
maybe, I want 30 minutes more of this episode.

762
00:53:21.440 --> 00:53:25.835
It's all kinds of stuff that people could come up with and just the the fact that people are working on this,

763
00:53:26.935 --> 00:53:30.315
they'll find they'll find what works. And I think it's

764
00:53:30.660 --> 00:53:33.300
it's very bullish for just kind of the future of,

765
00:53:33.780 --> 00:53:35.880
the Internet and And it's not a token.

766
00:53:36.340 --> 00:53:41.685
Yes. You know, it's actually Bitcoin. Yeah. It's using money for what money is meant for.

767
00:53:41.985 --> 00:53:42.485
Exactly.

768
00:53:42.785 --> 00:53:43.685
Alright, guys.

769
00:53:44.385 --> 00:53:44.885
So,

770
00:53:45.185 --> 00:53:47.445
the list of software is done.

771
00:53:47.890 --> 00:53:52.070
Now we're going to the 2nd part of the show. The noteworthy list,

772
00:53:52.850 --> 00:53:56.950
is essentially, like, projects and updates and other things that

773
00:53:58.365 --> 00:53:59.105
are interested

774
00:53:59.724 --> 00:54:00.545
for people

775
00:54:00.845 --> 00:54:04.670
who care about Bitcoin to know about but are not necessarily software updates.

776
00:54:05.710 --> 00:54:10.770
So there is this BIP bounty, tax deductible bug bounties for Bitcoin.

777
00:54:11.309 --> 00:54:13.730
I am a fan of anything tax deductible,

778
00:54:14.535 --> 00:54:15.035
especially,

779
00:54:15.494 --> 00:54:19.115
as a business because then he makes spending money on things that

780
00:54:19.415 --> 00:54:22.315
that matter be a way for the state to get less,

781
00:54:22.730 --> 00:54:24.490
taxes. Okay. Alright. I

782
00:54:25.050 --> 00:54:30.350
sorry. The accounts gotta step in here. What I I I I never understand this of

783
00:54:32.045 --> 00:54:33.025
Bitcoin companies

784
00:54:34.285 --> 00:54:35.984
needing to have

785
00:54:36.365 --> 00:54:38.385
Bitcoin expenses be tax deductible.

786
00:54:38.685 --> 00:54:40.305
They're already tax deductible.

787
00:54:40.809 --> 00:54:46.190
You they're they're part they're business expense. Business expenses are tax deductible. I don't understand

788
00:54:46.970 --> 00:54:47.470
why

789
00:54:47.825 --> 00:54:48.885
you need to have

790
00:54:49.425 --> 00:54:50.965
okay. This is a 100%

791
00:54:51.345 --> 00:54:54.005
tax deductible as a tech as a business expense,

792
00:54:54.385 --> 00:54:55.525
but I also

793
00:54:55.960 --> 00:54:57.579
would like this other category

794
00:54:58.039 --> 00:55:00.619
where it would also be a 100% tax deductible.

795
00:55:01.240 --> 00:55:05.745
It's the same outcome. You don't pay taxes. Like, I don't So the problem is,

796
00:55:06.225 --> 00:55:07.365
in some jurisdictions

797
00:55:08.145 --> 00:55:08.885
like ours,

798
00:55:10.305 --> 00:55:11.365
you know, some,

799
00:55:11.825 --> 00:55:14.885
like a lot of types of business expenses are not

800
00:55:15.190 --> 00:55:20.170
expensable. Like What? Yeah. So so there are things that you can't like, for example,

801
00:55:21.589 --> 00:55:22.810
you know, like a donation,

802
00:55:23.349 --> 00:55:24.810
it's not a business expense

803
00:55:26.105 --> 00:55:26.605
Unless

804
00:55:27.065 --> 00:55:44.204
Why are you calling it a donation then? Just don't call it a donation. Call it a consulting fee. Well, see, this is the problem. Right? A lot of the times the people receiving the donations are not understanding that the way the world works. So they will make sure that the invoice says donation, Well, now you can't exactly.

805
00:55:44.505 --> 00:55:45.005
So

806
00:55:45.305 --> 00:55:50.444
so it's that's why it's important. It's important because people don't know how to do taxes.

807
00:55:50.890 --> 00:55:53.070
Right? They don't know how to journal things.

808
00:55:53.530 --> 00:55:54.030
So

809
00:55:54.730 --> 00:55:55.230
having

810
00:55:55.530 --> 00:55:59.150
this premade mechanisms that are already packaged correctly

811
00:55:59.735 --> 00:56:07.275
for the tax man, it's, I it's nice to have. So taking a a a client, a potential client to, like, a strip club

812
00:56:07.970 --> 00:56:15.484
is business expense. No. No. No. Hold on. That that is that is that is meals and entertainment, and that's only 50%

813
00:56:15.945 --> 00:56:18.765
deductible Oh, okay. As a business expense.

814
00:56:19.224 --> 00:56:20.045
Same here.

815
00:56:20.425 --> 00:56:24.125
Used to be a 100%, by the way. They changed that rule only about 20 years ago.

816
00:56:25.210 --> 00:56:36.735
For obvious reasons. Right? No. I don't know. Well, I mean, like, what's the difference? Right? And you're like, just it's all so stupid. Somebody was abusing it. Somebody was was really eating some of the best steaks at the steak house

817
00:56:37.195 --> 00:56:38.575
and deducting it a 100%.

818
00:56:38.955 --> 00:56:42.175
I mean, if you had no taxes, then none of this would be a problem.

819
00:56:43.000 --> 00:56:44.619
Correct. Yeah. Absolutely.

820
00:56:45.160 --> 00:56:53.825
Or if you had people who could just, like, you know, set up an LLC and be like, hey, pay me this fee, and it's not a donation. So it's tax deductible.

821
00:56:57.245 --> 00:57:03.569
Exactly. So, anyways, now you understand why, Pierre, it's important to have this. No. I still don't understand. But

822
00:57:06.190 --> 00:57:09.410
Alright. Fedmint. But just real quick on the BitBounty,

823
00:57:10.405 --> 00:57:15.305
this is germ it's good to see. This is Jeremy Rubin's project. It seems like he's primarily

824
00:57:15.685 --> 00:57:18.345
he spun this up, for his Op CTV

825
00:57:18.724 --> 00:57:19.224
bounties.

826
00:57:19.760 --> 00:57:26.819
Nice. But he's open to having other projects on there as well. Do you know what's cool? They're trying to find a way now

827
00:57:27.195 --> 00:57:29.615
to do OPC TV without changing Bitcoin.

828
00:57:30.315 --> 00:57:32.175
That that that is bullish.

829
00:57:32.875 --> 00:57:35.055
It's it's like we should not change

830
00:57:35.710 --> 00:57:37.569
Bitcoin for anyone's interest,

831
00:57:38.190 --> 00:57:41.809
unless it's in everybody's interest kind of thing. So

832
00:57:42.705 --> 00:57:47.765
I don't know. I I just find it really cool that they're sort of like looking and they're finding ways of doing what they wanna do,

833
00:57:48.305 --> 00:57:54.330
hopefully without any Bitcoin change, and then they don't need permission. Right? I mean, nobody needs permission in Bitcoin unless they want everybody to change.

834
00:57:54.950 --> 00:58:00.170
Do do you mean no no change as in literally no change or as in Yes.

835
00:58:00.535 --> 00:58:01.755
Literally no change.

836
00:58:02.215 --> 00:58:05.275
They're trying to figure out how to do this stuff using, I think, Taproot,

837
00:58:05.575 --> 00:58:06.075
multisig

838
00:58:06.775 --> 00:58:08.955
Interesting. If I remember right. Yeah.

839
00:58:09.335 --> 00:58:13.710
That's that's that's super cool. Well, I was told Taproot is useless.

840
00:58:14.170 --> 00:58:14.910
What happened?

841
00:58:15.210 --> 00:58:19.710
Yeah. No. Taproot is just essentially a carrot. I've I've seen on Twitter the

842
00:58:20.155 --> 00:58:23.855
the the the pictures and is a carrot that lives inside Bitcoin

843
00:58:24.555 --> 00:58:27.055
and it produces a lot of methane

844
00:58:27.515 --> 00:58:28.655
and carbon dioxide

845
00:58:29.350 --> 00:58:30.970
and it's gonna boil the oceans.

846
00:58:31.590 --> 00:58:33.930
So that's why nobody should eat carrots anymore.

847
00:58:34.390 --> 00:58:37.050
Got it. I I see a lot of Ethereum people

848
00:58:37.475 --> 00:58:43.895
trying to, like, dunk on Taproot. Like, oh, we've had all this all this innovation and all you guys have come up with is Taproot.

849
00:58:44.970 --> 00:58:45.470
Well,

850
00:58:46.170 --> 00:58:48.030
they are gonna have a fun time,

851
00:58:48.490 --> 00:58:49.309
not withdrawing.

852
00:58:51.665 --> 00:58:57.445
Yeah. Taproot gives us Taproot gives us, like, nearly infinite ways of withdrawing.

853
00:58:57.745 --> 00:59:09.825
You can just create the most complex, interesting ways to withdraw any way that you can imagine withdrawing funds we can come up with with the tap root, and they can't do it at all. If they have, ultrasound

854
00:59:10.285 --> 00:59:10.785
money,

855
00:59:11.245 --> 00:59:13.185
we have infinite withdraw money.

856
00:59:14.045 --> 00:59:20.410
What a sad Irreversible withdrawals too. Ethereum Yes. I you know, they they they had a withdrawal

857
00:59:20.950 --> 00:59:24.490
many years ago that got just completely reversed by the entire blockchain.

858
00:59:25.164 --> 00:59:26.464
And the community rallied

859
00:59:26.765 --> 00:59:32.305
around it. So I mean, on the plus side, now that the state has control over Ethereum, it's not no longer gonna attack Ethereum.

860
00:59:34.119 --> 00:59:38.220
Alright. So Fedmint grant season. A new grantee, Josh Kitman,

861
00:59:38.680 --> 00:59:40.299
is the 1st grantee of Fedmint,

862
00:59:40.920 --> 00:59:43.915
is working with mustache enthusiast, Odell.

863
00:59:44.375 --> 00:59:45.755
Oh, you're mentioned here,

864
00:59:46.055 --> 00:59:51.890
Matt. Has called most bullish man I'm wearing both my mustache and my hat. Okay. He's working on an MVP

865
00:59:52.190 --> 00:59:52.930
for Fedbit.

866
00:59:53.790 --> 00:59:58.609
And that's the open source project, not the Right. For profit business. The foundation.

867
00:59:59.605 --> 01:00:01.305
Okay. Tether holds

868
01:00:01.605 --> 01:00:06.105
firm on this holds firm on decision not to freeze Tornado Cash Addresses

869
01:00:07.430 --> 01:00:07.930
awaiting,

870
01:00:08.630 --> 01:00:09.530
law enforcement

871
01:00:10.710 --> 01:00:11.210
instructions.

872
01:00:11.830 --> 01:00:17.675
That's that's interesting. I mean, listen. Anything that can be capturable will be capturable will be captured,

873
01:00:18.775 --> 01:00:27.500
but it is nice to see companies, at least fighting back or pretending to fight back a little bit. It's always, I don't know. It's a feel good thing more than a useful thing.

874
01:00:29.400 --> 01:00:35.855
Well, I mean, even if they if they wait a couple days before freezing it, I mean, that gives people a window of opportunity.

875
01:00:37.355 --> 01:00:50.599
Yep. That that's true, actually. Maybe that's what they're doing, just buying people time. This blog post specifically, I think it was in response to there was, like, a Wall Street Journal or New York Times or Bloomberg hit piece on Tether not freezing tornado cash.

876
01:00:51.934 --> 01:00:57.474
So they released this blog post and said, well, we got no notice to freeze, so we're not freezing anything until we got notice.

877
01:00:57.775 --> 01:01:02.170
And they they are mostly Swiss based. Right? So, you know, there is a history there of,

878
01:01:02.809 --> 01:01:04.029
gold thief and impartiality.

879
01:01:04.970 --> 01:01:05.690
What else?

880
01:01:06.010 --> 01:01:07.549
New York Digital Investment

881
01:01:07.985 --> 01:01:12.805
Group announces lightning accelerator project called In Wolf's oh, yeah. So that's

882
01:01:13.265 --> 01:01:14.405
a that's a Russ

883
01:01:15.510 --> 01:01:17.450
Ross Ross Stevens, thing.

884
01:01:17.830 --> 01:01:27.595
I saw the announcement that they had inside that the She did it in Austin in person, which is says a lot because he takes his privacy very seriously. I think that's the first public

885
01:01:28.375 --> 01:01:33.840
in person thing he's done since being in Bitcoin. I don't know. I've seen him in a bunch of Bitcoin events.

886
01:01:34.860 --> 01:01:38.560
In person? Yeah. Open to the public? Yeah. Like what?

887
01:01:39.015 --> 01:01:41.835
No. I'm not gonna talk Steve Eds, but he was there.

888
01:01:42.455 --> 01:01:43.595
But was he speaking?

889
01:01:45.495 --> 01:01:48.030
No. I I don't think so, but Yeah. Definitely

890
01:01:48.330 --> 01:01:49.230
roaming around.

891
01:01:50.090 --> 01:01:51.790
You also skipped over Taj

892
01:01:52.170 --> 01:01:52.670
Tajdreja

893
01:01:53.585 --> 01:01:54.484
joining LightSpark.

894
01:01:55.424 --> 01:02:01.345
I mean, this is big because, I mean, I have respect for him, and I just didn't expect much from LightSpark. So

895
01:02:02.460 --> 01:02:03.279
What's LightSpark?

896
01:02:03.980 --> 01:02:05.119
LightSpark is,

897
01:02:05.900 --> 01:02:06.880
David Marcus,

898
01:02:07.180 --> 01:02:07.680
the

899
01:02:08.380 --> 01:02:15.884
prominent shit coiner that was running Facebook shit coin has left and made it he's making light lightning startup that I originally thought was

900
01:02:16.265 --> 01:02:27.630
shit coins on lightning. He's very pro Bitcoin. But I've since learned is is infrastructure play on lightning. This is toxic slander to to call him a shitcoiner. I I would not characterize him as a shitcoiner.

901
01:02:27.945 --> 01:02:34.025
He stole a probate coin. He was leading Facebook shitcoin project. Stablecoins don't count. They so they they

902
01:02:34.585 --> 01:02:41.440
it was it was more of like a stable coin, which we can get into debates about whether gift cards or shit coins or chairs or shit coins, etcetera.

903
01:02:41.820 --> 01:02:47.815
But he also he did have dot ETH. I think that's the strongest argument for why he's a shitcoiner. Yes.

904
01:02:48.135 --> 01:02:49.835
But I think he also

905
01:02:50.214 --> 01:02:51.595
is an early Bitcoin

906
01:02:52.200 --> 01:02:56.220
booster. He was there, like, I think, 2013. He started filling his bag,

907
01:02:56.680 --> 01:02:57.180
and,

908
01:02:58.119 --> 01:03:01.339
I think that he learned a lot from his experience at Facebook.

909
01:03:02.105 --> 01:03:03.805
My my four d chess,

910
01:03:04.425 --> 01:03:07.565
thought here with, his company, LightSpark, is that,

911
01:03:08.025 --> 01:03:10.845
so I think Mark Zuckerberg is also a closet Bitcoiner.

912
01:03:11.490 --> 01:03:14.950
And they were like, okay. We we can't launch our own SharePoint.

913
01:03:15.570 --> 01:03:20.710
So what we're gonna do is you're gonna start this company. You're gonna create lightning infrastructure,

914
01:03:21.105 --> 01:03:24.724
and then Facebook will acquire it. Yes. You'll get rich, and we'll get lightning,

915
01:03:25.105 --> 01:03:27.525
and the regulators won't have time to do anything.

916
01:03:27.825 --> 01:03:29.765
If you stick around for enough cycles,

917
01:03:30.260 --> 01:03:32.440
you get to see Pierre become a shitcoin apologist.

918
01:03:33.300 --> 01:03:34.520
Exactly. Yes.

919
01:03:35.220 --> 01:03:36.360
It's very unlikely

920
01:03:36.900 --> 01:03:40.974
that smart, powerful, well capitalized people don't understand

921
01:03:41.434 --> 01:03:45.934
Bitcoin if they're sort of, like, working on technology. Right? Like, the Zuckerberg

922
01:03:46.234 --> 01:03:46.974
of sorts.

923
01:03:47.420 --> 01:03:48.240
They get

924
01:03:48.700 --> 01:03:55.600
it very much. They listen. They would love to have their own capture version of things too because then they get to print the money,

925
01:03:56.095 --> 01:03:56.914
but they also learn

926
01:03:57.295 --> 01:04:04.115
very fast that they will get captured. I mean, Libra was immediately killed because that actually posed a threat to the US

927
01:04:06.299 --> 01:04:09.519
fed. Right? I mean, they they could have had their currency

928
01:04:09.980 --> 01:04:23.234
available to, what, 2,000,000,000 people now or whatever it is on on Facebook these days on day 1. Like, press a button and boom, they are the new money issuer. Right? So I I I think they get it. I think they're gonna try to milk

929
01:04:23.960 --> 01:04:25.820
captured things as far as they can

930
01:04:26.200 --> 01:04:27.500
to stack more sats.

931
01:04:28.119 --> 01:04:34.845
But, but yeah. And this guy, like, he's been sort of only talking about Bitcoin and and sort of, like, trying to be polite

932
01:04:35.145 --> 01:04:38.525
about, like, I don't think other coins are

933
01:04:38.825 --> 01:04:41.010
very safe or non capturable

934
01:04:41.550 --> 01:04:43.570
kind of, like, rhetoric. Right?

935
01:04:43.950 --> 01:04:47.410
Bitcoin is very good at this kind of thing.

936
01:04:48.110 --> 01:04:49.170
He's very careful.

937
01:04:49.775 --> 01:04:51.615
Well, you know, he's he's got,

938
01:04:52.015 --> 01:04:55.954
cocktail parties to go to. You know, he wants to Yeah. Be friendly.

939
01:04:56.540 --> 01:05:00.000
That's right. And v k to your point about guys like Zuckerberg,

940
01:05:00.380 --> 01:05:01.520
you know, also consider

941
01:05:02.700 --> 01:05:07.045
you have to wonder first of all, I I do think that he's a big corner to some level,

942
01:05:07.905 --> 01:05:14.485
to some degree. But you also have to consider why they would be learning the importance of this and Bitcoin specifically,

943
01:05:15.089 --> 01:05:24.375
and why there is that pushback about like, there's obviously the the the the drive to want to have your own capturable thing, but also not be capturable

944
01:05:24.675 --> 01:05:25.175
by

945
01:05:25.635 --> 01:05:26.375
other people.

946
01:05:26.915 --> 01:05:29.415
And you you have to wonder what goes through,

947
01:05:30.355 --> 01:05:30.855
Zuck's

948
01:05:31.155 --> 01:05:31.655
mind

949
01:05:32.160 --> 01:05:37.060
as, you know, the the state tries to further and further encroach on his

950
01:05:37.520 --> 01:05:41.060
capacity to manage Facebook as he plea pleases.

951
01:05:41.595 --> 01:05:46.895
Yeah. I mean, he wants to be master of his own stuff. I mean, he created the company. Yeah. He wants to be emperor Augustus.

952
01:05:47.195 --> 01:05:51.375
Yes. Totally. And it's fair. I mean, he did create his own universe. Right?

953
01:05:52.220 --> 01:05:53.599
I mean, it's his rules.

954
01:05:54.380 --> 01:06:05.595
And every day, there's there's always pushes to, you know, get him to censor this and censor that. And, you know, some of it he goes along with. Some of it there's been push back. But overall, the point is, like,

955
01:06:05.895 --> 01:06:11.619
I'm sure he's the one who wants to be the one, deciding what to censor and what not to censor. And so,

956
01:06:12.339 --> 01:06:12.920
you know,

957
01:06:13.619 --> 01:06:17.079
for for someone in this situation, it might be, you know,

958
01:06:18.204 --> 01:06:18.704
capturable

959
01:06:19.005 --> 01:06:24.145
for thee, but not for me as as like a working thing. And to Pierre's,

960
01:06:24.765 --> 01:06:31.900
shitcoin, Apologism. There is there there is an element. I mean, I think over time, everyone's going to be a Bitcoiner eventually.

961
01:06:32.599 --> 01:06:33.339
And so

962
01:06:33.800 --> 01:06:35.500
we will have to develop,

963
01:06:36.215 --> 01:06:37.675
means of forgiveness,

964
01:06:38.375 --> 01:06:42.235
so that we can get people properly integrated back into,

965
01:06:42.695 --> 01:06:43.755
civilized society.

966
01:06:44.450 --> 01:06:53.269
Okay. So I I agree with you, but I I'm not saying that about David Marcus in particular. I'm just saying, broadly speaking, like, David does seem like a pretty good guy.

967
01:06:53.845 --> 01:06:56.085
In the future, there's gonna be people that,

968
01:06:56.565 --> 01:07:02.985
people have way more skepticism about than David Marcus. You know? You know, the the original way of people

969
01:07:03.320 --> 01:07:05.580
to repent is by losing their sats,

970
01:07:05.880 --> 01:07:08.300
either proof of burn or proof of sold.

971
01:07:08.760 --> 01:07:11.980
You know, my my dear friend, Tina Cash

972
01:07:12.575 --> 01:07:15.714
has, has done his his cycle of repentance.

973
01:07:16.734 --> 01:07:22.035
And, you know, it's, we we we've all lost Sats along the way, some more than others.

974
01:07:22.849 --> 01:07:26.230
Yeah. And I I ran a poll a while ago of,

975
01:07:26.530 --> 01:07:29.270
were you a shit corner before becoming a Maxi?

976
01:07:29.595 --> 01:07:31.135
And I think it was, like, 60%

977
01:07:31.435 --> 01:07:32.255
said yes.

978
01:07:32.635 --> 01:07:34.575
And so I think clearly,

979
01:07:35.115 --> 01:07:35.615
empirically,

980
01:07:35.915 --> 01:07:37.535
we already have a mechanism

981
01:07:37.915 --> 01:07:38.415
for,

982
01:07:38.740 --> 01:07:39.560
you know, repentance

983
01:07:39.940 --> 01:07:41.880
and for you coming back into the fold.

984
01:07:42.180 --> 01:07:53.165
All you gotta do is just be humble. That's all you gotta do. We're not asking you to write a long medium post about how you've seen the light. Like, just just become a bit harder. Like, we're we're not,

985
01:07:53.480 --> 01:07:59.420
you know, we're not asking for for for a lot here. Did you guys all do your starter packs? I did mine yesterday,

986
01:08:00.200 --> 01:08:01.100
Bitcoin toxic,

987
01:08:01.800 --> 01:08:05.145
starter pack. I was very disappointed with the lack of,

988
01:08:05.705 --> 01:08:08.125
radios and stuff, so I figured I I,

989
01:08:08.905 --> 01:08:11.225
I go make one. I I heard that,

990
01:08:11.860 --> 01:08:25.195
too many cold cards in the starter packs. Oh, no. We're toxic. Yeah. Yeah. It's like beef. You you should only have treasures in your starter pack. Even if you have a cold card, you should put a treasure in there so that other people feel welcome.

991
01:08:25.815 --> 01:08:28.635
Boys, I I know the ship has sailed on owning,

992
01:08:30.100 --> 01:08:45.045
the maximalist attack, but can we not own the fundamentalist attack? Can we just let this one die? No. No. No. I love that one. I just I'd I don't want us I don't want a bunch of plebs, like, running around saying I'm a Bitcoin fundamentalist. Like, I just do not want it to happen.

993
01:08:46.310 --> 01:08:50.410
These these things, they they they come along all the time, though. I mean, it's

994
01:08:50.870 --> 01:08:51.370
it's,

995
01:08:51.910 --> 01:09:10.360
you know, we've heard all of them. There's been, like, there there's Bitcoin terrorists at one point. That's right. Yeah. I'm so glad we didn't own that one. Matt, you gotta stay humble. You know, Matt? Like, you don't get to we don't get to decide. I know. I don't get to decide, but Bittstein and Pierre do, so I I would like them to. Yeah. But that's true. They are the meme masters.

996
01:09:10.935 --> 01:09:13.275
Our decision should be based on regulatory

997
01:09:13.655 --> 01:09:15.675
concerns. Right? So terrorist

998
01:09:16.855 --> 01:09:18.315
regulations around terrorism

999
01:09:18.615 --> 01:09:22.900
are are very restrictive. It's already designated. You know, they they're very

1000
01:09:23.280 --> 01:09:24.020
anti terrorist.

1001
01:09:24.640 --> 01:09:25.140
Fundamentalist,

1002
01:09:25.840 --> 01:09:33.665
at least here in the US You're founded by it. Yeah. That's not that's that's, you know, tax deductible. Again, like, that's, you know, fantastic,

1003
01:09:34.685 --> 01:09:35.745
framing. So

1004
01:09:36.890 --> 01:09:46.705
not only is it great from a tax perspective, but it's also like we've been we've been hearing people tell us, stop looking at the price, focus on the fundamentals.

1005
01:09:47.165 --> 01:09:53.739
Fundamentals are what matter. Okay. We're fundamentalists. And then everyone gets upset. So I I don't know what to say. I am a fundamentalist

1006
01:09:54.280 --> 01:09:54.780
investor.

1007
01:09:55.400 --> 01:10:00.040
Yeah. Yeah. I know. I'm with you there. I'm I'm I'm I'm a devout Bitcoiner. I don't

1008
01:10:00.845 --> 01:10:03.585
it's a it's a it's a word that's gonna be coming up.

1009
01:10:03.965 --> 01:10:05.985
You know what's weird to me is that

1010
01:10:06.285 --> 01:10:14.320
by now you'd think that the people who call us names would understand that, like, we really, really don't care if anything we embrace

1011
01:10:15.020 --> 01:10:16.000
the new nomenclature.

1012
01:10:17.335 --> 01:10:21.035
We love the semantics of a in group, out group.

1013
01:10:21.495 --> 01:10:22.635
It it just strengthens,

1014
01:10:23.255 --> 01:10:24.500
Bitcoiners. Like,

1015
01:10:25.060 --> 01:10:32.200
maybe they should see that their attacks only makes us stronger. It's, I don't know. I think by now they would have learned but they clearly don't.

1016
01:10:33.195 --> 01:10:37.775
Well, they they they told us we're a religious cult. You know? Maybe it's just time to take it seriously.

1017
01:10:38.235 --> 01:10:43.150
You know, I I I shake my head back and forth every time I hear a block.

1018
01:10:43.610 --> 01:10:45.230
I hear blocks in my head.

1019
01:10:46.330 --> 01:10:49.230
Do I turn turn to your node every 10 minutes.

1020
01:10:49.825 --> 01:10:53.525
Oh, the new mini the new micron now beeps if you want.

1021
01:10:53.985 --> 01:10:56.305
So you can get a beep in the house for a while. Make it,

1022
01:10:56.865 --> 01:10:58.485
like, what's the

1023
01:10:59.450 --> 01:11:01.790
what's the call? The the the the Muslims,

1024
01:11:02.250 --> 01:11:09.445
like, they they do the great Yes. Song, the call to prayer. It should be Yes. Something of of that sort. And a 144

1025
01:11:09.905 --> 01:11:10.805
times a day,

1026
01:11:11.345 --> 01:11:12.325
you you

1027
01:11:13.105 --> 01:11:23.360
point towards your note and and give a nod and There you go. We should, we should buy all the bankrupt CD halls, put a bell on it, and then for every block, we bang a bell.

1028
01:11:24.835 --> 01:11:25.415
Boom. That's

1029
01:11:26.275 --> 01:11:26.855
it. Alright.

1030
01:11:27.955 --> 01:11:29.255
No bullshit Bitcoin,

1031
01:11:30.035 --> 01:11:34.215
on Twitter and on Telegram. I wanted to give a shout out because

1032
01:11:35.230 --> 01:11:37.650
this guy group of people

1033
01:11:38.110 --> 01:11:41.970
put out some really, really awesome high signal Bitcoin information.

1034
01:11:42.835 --> 01:11:46.055
They have a new website and and they put all the stuff there.

1035
01:11:46.435 --> 01:11:49.015
I just hope that they add the direct link to the

1036
01:11:49.475 --> 01:11:50.215
actual source

1037
01:11:50.550 --> 01:11:52.970
as a second tweet to their tweet or something.

1038
01:11:53.350 --> 01:12:02.554
But, anyways, it's just it's nice to have, like, high signal Bitcoin information without the ultra pumpage. The pumpage is nice too, but, you know,

1039
01:12:02.935 --> 01:12:03.835
different channel.

1040
01:12:04.295 --> 01:12:09.355
So, yeah, I wanted to put that out there because sometimes I find new stuff for us, through them.

1041
01:12:10.679 --> 01:12:11.320
They have,

1042
01:12:11.880 --> 01:12:16.460
with the new website, they added a bunch of, like, separate RSS feeds so you can pick.

1043
01:12:17.000 --> 01:12:22.135
Nice. We were talking about RSS feed maximalism earlier, so I thought it was worth mentioning.

1044
01:12:22.435 --> 01:12:26.375
My, my friend Wiz here has launched a a lightning

1045
01:12:26.810 --> 01:12:28.190
Explorer for mempool.space.

1046
01:12:29.530 --> 01:12:33.630
It is in everything that they do absolutely gorgeous visually,

1047
01:12:34.525 --> 01:12:34.925
and,

1048
01:12:35.325 --> 01:12:45.010
you can really see how, Lightning is mostly on Amazon and on Google and and on Microsoft, which is fine. Different model. I think it's FUD.

1049
01:12:45.550 --> 01:12:48.050
I think it's it's unnecessary FUD. Also,

1050
01:12:48.430 --> 01:12:48.930
the,

1051
01:12:51.905 --> 01:12:52.485
it doesn't

1052
01:12:53.264 --> 01:12:56.324
and and, you know, I'm not speaking about any particular

1053
01:12:56.625 --> 01:12:58.645
node on the network or anything, but

1054
01:12:59.050 --> 01:13:00.590
there are people who use

1055
01:13:00.970 --> 01:13:01.470
proxies

1056
01:13:02.010 --> 01:13:04.110
where the proxies on AWS

1057
01:13:04.490 --> 01:13:06.990
and the node is on physical hardware.

1058
01:13:07.515 --> 01:13:08.255
And so,

1059
01:13:09.195 --> 01:13:17.409
like, I we should be educating people about, hey. You know, cloud, not great. But also, like, if you if it's a $100,000

1060
01:13:18.429 --> 01:13:22.769
on the cloud Who cares? And you've got, you know, a kajillion,

1061
01:13:23.070 --> 01:13:26.495
you know, dollars worth of Bitcoin on your cold keys cold card

1062
01:13:27.295 --> 01:13:28.915
that are cold keys,

1063
01:13:30.015 --> 01:13:30.515
then

1064
01:13:31.055 --> 01:13:32.035
who who cares?

1065
01:13:32.975 --> 01:13:38.880
But the other part too is that, like, the whole premise of Lightning is that you can shut down 50%,

1066
01:13:39.420 --> 01:13:41.520
80%, 99% of the network.

1067
01:13:41.900 --> 01:13:42.780
Right? And,

1068
01:13:43.994 --> 01:13:44.974
nobody cares.

1069
01:13:45.275 --> 01:13:51.935
It shouldn't matter. Right? It it's trust minimized. So somebody can force close the channel to you, and it's okay.

1070
01:13:52.270 --> 01:13:54.930
There is there is nodes on Alibaba infrastructure.

1071
01:13:55.870 --> 01:13:57.969
Yeah. That that's pretty cool.

1072
01:13:58.590 --> 01:14:09.965
So and and Vodafone as well, which is private entity. It's not hosting solution for everybody. So, the only way this changes is if AWS or Google Cloud become unreliable

1073
01:14:10.989 --> 01:14:14.769
and then the network further decentralizes. But, like,

1074
01:14:15.070 --> 01:14:19.570
why why try to make things more robust when they're not?

1075
01:14:20.105 --> 01:14:29.650
This isn't like an area in my mind where I want lightning people to be focused on this. No. I want lightning people to be focused on increasing payment reliability.

1076
01:14:30.270 --> 01:14:33.150
Like, that's the bigger UX problem than,

1077
01:14:33.855 --> 01:14:39.155
are we on AWS or not? And it just seems completely misguided to me. But but, Pierre,

1078
01:14:39.614 --> 01:14:45.180
if Amazon offers hosted Raspberry Pis, I guarantee you they were gonna get a lot of people to be okay with it.

1079
01:14:45.560 --> 01:14:57.755
Well yeah. And the just this is what's frustrating me as the creator of the node launcher. It's like, get a laptop and open up the node launcher on it, and and and that's 10 times better than a Raspberry Pi.

1080
01:14:58.215 --> 01:15:00.155
But, anyway, I'll get off my soapbox.

1081
01:15:00.630 --> 01:15:09.530
On on on this mempool edition, I mean, I think you're bearing the lead, NVK. So this is the first Lightning Explorer that is actually being done by

1082
01:15:10.014 --> 01:15:12.275
an already existing Blockchain Explorer.

1083
01:15:12.895 --> 01:15:14.994
So the coolest part to me is that

1084
01:15:15.295 --> 01:15:23.739
you can click on a Lightning node, and then it also shows you the on chain transactions for the open and closes. And you can basically switch between on chain

1085
01:15:24.360 --> 01:15:28.115
and layer 2. So it it, like, dynamically goes between the 2,

1086
01:15:28.735 --> 01:15:30.435
which becomes extremely useful,

1087
01:15:30.895 --> 01:15:34.880
for people. Plus, it's very pretty. I just love how pretty Bitcoin stuff is.

1088
01:15:35.840 --> 01:15:49.735
You know, like like, you got even the nerdy look, which I love as well, but then you got this, like, ultra amazing, high information, well designed sites. Like, it's just nice because then media can show this instead of that gold coin for Bitcoin.

1089
01:15:50.595 --> 01:15:56.599
They're still gonna show the gold coin. Yeah. It's never going away. Right? Yeah. The the the worst one is the,

1090
01:15:57.079 --> 01:16:02.139
it's like a conference booth, and it, like, has the sort of rounded Bitcoin.

1091
01:16:02.565 --> 01:16:13.840
Every time I see that I don't know if you know exactly what picture I'm talking about. I know exactly It's a money money money 2020 or whatever. I think it was before it. No. It was it has to be at least, like, 2016 or 2017.

1092
01:16:14.460 --> 01:16:17.260
I think was a bit pay boof way back in,

1093
01:16:17.865 --> 01:16:20.125
either Amsterdam or the Atlanta one.

1094
01:16:20.425 --> 01:16:25.220
Yeah. Because that one, you always know it's gonna be a bad article when that picture shows up.

1095
01:16:26.180 --> 01:16:30.920
They have bad article, Bitcoin picture, good article, a good Bitcoin picture. Right? Like,

1096
01:16:31.300 --> 01:16:32.040
oh, man.

1097
01:16:32.340 --> 01:16:33.160
That's funny.

1098
01:16:33.565 --> 01:16:39.105
Alright. Before we move on, MBK, I have a I have a question for you that's not on the list.

1099
01:16:40.445 --> 01:16:49.790
Ledger announced that all Best Buy stores in America are selling Ledger hardware wallets. What are your thoughts on that? Oh, I was actually going to add that to the list, and I forgot.

1100
01:16:50.405 --> 01:16:52.665
So that is absolutely fantastic.

1101
01:16:53.205 --> 01:16:55.705
I mean, like, it is crazy to think

1102
01:16:56.485 --> 01:17:03.680
that, like, you know, only 10 years later because remember, right, back in the day you couldn't go buy a modem 10 years into the Internet anywhere.

1103
01:17:04.140 --> 01:17:06.720
You had to go specialize stores and stuff. So

1104
01:17:07.655 --> 01:17:08.875
I I think this is

1105
01:17:09.495 --> 01:17:12.955
this is a huge, huge deal. You're gonna have

1106
01:17:13.255 --> 01:17:17.090
like a cheap wallet that's, like, physically reasonably physically secure,

1107
01:17:17.789 --> 01:17:20.289
and people can properly get exposed to shit coins.

1108
01:17:22.590 --> 01:17:23.409
On, like,

1109
01:17:23.745 --> 01:17:25.925
any store that you can go and buy with cash.

1110
01:17:26.705 --> 01:17:30.645
It's it's it's a nice thing. If if given the opportunity, would you

1111
01:17:31.025 --> 01:17:44.585
put cold cards in every Best Buy? Yeah. Probably. I mean, why not? We press the we press the the print button for hardware at the factory, and we pump out enough, cold cards to to go to Best Buy. Well, you push back on the idea of, like,

1112
01:17:45.445 --> 01:17:49.145
distributors in the past, so that's why I asked. We would make a different version.

1113
01:17:49.510 --> 01:17:51.050
Like, we would just make a

1114
01:17:51.830 --> 01:17:56.730
you know, like, probably different firmware and different slightly different case looks so that you can differentiate,

1115
01:17:57.110 --> 01:18:01.275
what came directly from us. Mhmm. Plus we have more projects coming. So

1116
01:18:01.735 --> 01:18:03.115
I think not like,

1117
01:18:03.495 --> 01:18:10.100
another cool thing to to build on that is the fact that you have all these people who can now just buy this. And, you know,

1118
01:18:10.480 --> 01:18:18.715
Odell, you probably have more experience than, well, NVK. The 2 of you certainly have more experience than me actually onboarding people,

1119
01:18:19.495 --> 01:18:23.960
into these wallets and working with seed phrases and all of that is probably

1120
01:18:24.660 --> 01:18:38.875
one of the more difficult things to get across when it comes to, you know, security and just in general. So the fact that just random people can go to the store, pick up one of these things. And in order to turn it on, like, you have to start engaging with the seed phrase.

1121
01:18:39.500 --> 01:18:41.600
A lot of people are probably gonna get burned, unfortunately,

1122
01:18:42.060 --> 01:18:43.600
but that's part of how it works.

1123
01:18:43.980 --> 01:18:48.025
If I was, if I was a proper like, my my very basic attack

1124
01:18:53.545 --> 01:19:07.305
initialize them with a seed. I'll put them in shrink-wrap, which takes like a second, and I'll just go and replace them at the store with, like, one of those shoplifting bags, you know, the with the foil around. It it looked like it was behind one of the, like, locked glass things,

1125
01:19:07.925 --> 01:19:15.740
which I I don't know if that's just because, people steal things more now or if, it it it would be really cool if Best Buy somehow,

1126
01:19:16.200 --> 01:19:18.460
knew it's like, oh, this is something we need to

1127
01:19:19.165 --> 01:19:27.105
protect a little bit more. Although, given the crypto nature, that alone might tell them enough. It's like, hey, this is actually one of the things that needs to be more protected.

1128
01:19:27.760 --> 01:19:29.699
And then it'll be an inside job.

1129
01:19:30.000 --> 01:19:31.940
Well, Ledger might have told them no returns.

1130
01:19:32.719 --> 01:19:33.219
Yeah.

1131
01:19:34.239 --> 01:19:39.565
I I it's still great. I mean, like, you know, we can, you know, I can, I can go and sort of, like,

1132
01:19:40.025 --> 01:19:40.525
intellectually

1133
01:19:41.385 --> 01:19:42.365
bait about,

1134
01:19:43.305 --> 01:19:58.285
like, attacks on this? But, like, at the end of the day, it's just more people getting exposed to self custody, and and that's a huge win. And more exposure in general. Like, it just it's totally normalized. It's like crypto. I'm sorry to use that phrase, but, like, it it is Ledger.

1135
01:19:58.825 --> 01:20:00.925
You know, crypto is not this,

1136
01:20:01.705 --> 01:20:02.205
like,

1137
01:20:03.160 --> 01:20:07.500
crazy fringe thing. It's like you literally just go to Best Buy and pick up a wallet.

1138
01:20:08.280 --> 01:20:12.140
It it completely normalizes it. I think we just lost Bitsting.

1139
01:20:12.885 --> 01:20:14.025
I think he's gone.

1140
01:20:14.565 --> 01:20:20.505
Yeah. I'm out of here. I gotta go, guys. Once Michael starts talking about he's gonna be cryptosteen

1141
01:20:20.885 --> 01:20:22.210
pretty soon. Okay.

1142
01:20:22.750 --> 01:20:25.250
Yeah. Pierre Pierre starts shit coin apologizing,

1143
01:20:25.630 --> 01:20:29.570
and it's okay. And then, you know, I I use the word crypto once

1144
01:20:29.895 --> 01:20:32.715
in relation to a ledger. This podcast is falling apart.

1145
01:20:33.015 --> 01:20:48.535
Okay. You literally just screamed, fire in a movie theater right now. I have fun staying quiet. You know, Rothbard argued that that, isn't understood the way that, people think. But By the way, Pierre, you mentioned that you might need to go actually for real. So do you need to go? No. I do need to go for real. I'm joking.

1146
01:20:49.074 --> 01:20:55.655
See, I just I wanted I wanted to make Pierre not feel bad that he had to go. Yeah. Exactly. Any parting thoughts, Pierre?

1147
01:20:56.760 --> 01:20:57.980
Bitcoin, not crypto.

1148
01:20:59.880 --> 01:21:05.100
Thanks for coming, man. I really appreciate it. Thanks, guys. Bye. Appreciate you. Peace. Take care.

1149
01:21:06.145 --> 01:21:09.925
The other thing with Ledger is, you know, not too long ago,

1150
01:21:10.465 --> 01:21:10.965
270,000

1151
01:21:11.585 --> 01:21:16.270
customers had their mailing address is exposed. So the fact that you can go and buy a Best Buy with cash,

1152
01:21:17.130 --> 01:21:19.150
is a very easy protection from that.

1153
01:21:19.530 --> 01:21:20.030
Yeah.

1154
01:21:20.805 --> 01:21:24.085
You know, it's a win. By the way, I think that the real thing there was just that,

1155
01:21:24.805 --> 01:21:27.545
I I associate ledger with crypto, not with Bitcoin.

1156
01:21:28.805 --> 01:21:29.210
So

1157
01:21:29.770 --> 01:21:33.950
Yeah. Yeah. I know. Exactly. It's Yeah. Ledger's what I recommend to all, like, my

1158
01:21:34.330 --> 01:21:39.150
shit coining friends from college and stuff because I'd rather them self custody their shit coins than

1159
01:21:39.594 --> 01:21:40.094
Coinbase.

1160
01:21:41.114 --> 01:21:44.175
Yeah. This this normalization is just very important.

1161
01:21:44.554 --> 01:21:48.880
For for many, many years, I've just enjoyed if I'm just out, just

1162
01:21:49.199 --> 01:21:52.260
injecting Bitcoin suddenly everywhere I can.

1163
01:21:52.960 --> 01:21:55.060
You know, whether it's a joke about it,

1164
01:21:55.600 --> 01:21:56.500
or whatever.

1165
01:21:56.815 --> 01:22:06.195
Just because it's like people need to hear these things and know that it's it's out there. It's not just it's not just a weird thing online. Yes. It's a real phenomenon that's happening globally,

1166
01:22:06.720 --> 01:22:15.140
and you should feel a part of it. And you should you should feel weird if you don't know enough about it. Yeah. No. It should we should we should normalize

1167
01:22:15.895 --> 01:22:20.395
people. It's kinda like when, when people started to pretend they knew what email was.

1168
01:22:20.735 --> 01:22:21.235
You

1169
01:22:21.574 --> 01:22:27.940
know, like, I I still remember, like, friends, like, that were not really into computer stuff back in the early days,

1170
01:22:28.400 --> 01:22:29.860
of the Internet. And,

1171
01:22:30.720 --> 01:22:37.295
you know, you want people to feel embarrassed if they don't know what it is, kinda how people feel embarrassed now if they don't have stocks.

1172
01:22:38.955 --> 01:22:46.020
It you wanna normalize that because, you know, even shitcoins are still better than a lot of the the the traditional financial,

1173
01:22:46.560 --> 01:22:47.060
products.

1174
01:22:47.520 --> 01:22:55.135
I mean, that's why people use them, frankly. Yeah. So now we're, like, 3 of 4 shit coin apologists on this show. This is an apologist.

1175
01:22:55.675 --> 01:23:05.510
This is this is I I'm saying that shit coins are late stage fiat, and so people gravitate towards it. I mean, to envy case statement, I think people are better off owning Apple stock than

1176
01:23:06.370 --> 01:23:06.870
shitcoins.

1177
01:23:07.295 --> 01:23:12.755
I I'm saying that the reason they gravitate towards it is because they they are chasing yield

1178
01:23:13.135 --> 01:23:13.795
to beat

1179
01:23:14.310 --> 01:23:19.050
just the the like, you you can't have low time preference fiat behavior.

1180
01:23:19.350 --> 01:23:34.460
Yeah. But see, Matt, if this is an American centric view, like, in Brazil, more people have, like, crypto than they than they have stocks because Because they can't get it. No. But that's what I'm saying. But that's true for everybody outside North America. Like, even in Europe, it's harder to buy stock.

1181
01:23:34.760 --> 01:23:38.060
It's a it got better in the last few years, but, you know, like,

1182
01:23:38.920 --> 01:23:43.605
this this one button buy Okay. Well, those people should stay on Bluestacks sets. Yes.

1183
01:23:46.225 --> 01:23:47.205
No one's disagreeing.

1184
01:23:49.320 --> 01:23:50.620
Alright. Moving on

1185
01:23:51.080 --> 01:23:51.580
to

1186
01:23:52.040 --> 01:23:52.540
actually,

1187
01:23:53.560 --> 01:23:55.100
do do you guys have,

1188
01:23:55.960 --> 01:23:59.065
we're actually renaming the show the crypto dot review.

1189
01:23:59.864 --> 01:24:00.364
Perfect.

1190
01:24:00.905 --> 01:24:02.525
Then it's gonna be, like, 10 hours.

1191
01:24:03.305 --> 01:24:07.165
By the way, I bought another domain. I was going to call this the Based Layer

1192
01:24:08.510 --> 01:24:09.010
show,

1193
01:24:09.469 --> 01:24:09.790
but,

1194
01:24:10.270 --> 01:24:12.929
that that doesn't I prefer the Bitcoin review. Anyways,

1195
01:24:13.630 --> 01:24:16.369
so moving on to the Bitcoin OpTech newsletter.

1196
01:24:17.974 --> 01:24:21.835
They have a bunch of stuff. We're not gonna go through everything because otherwise it'll take days,

1197
01:24:22.534 --> 01:24:23.034
but

1198
01:24:23.974 --> 01:24:25.835
they have, there is a

1199
01:24:26.579 --> 01:24:29.380
I don't know if it's a pull request or an issue to,

1200
01:24:29.780 --> 01:24:30.280
extend,

1201
01:24:31.380 --> 01:24:31.880
PSBT

1202
01:24:33.755 --> 01:24:39.215
bump fee RPC with the ability to create PSBTs that fee bumps and transaction,

1203
01:24:39.755 --> 01:24:41.535
and and a transaction even

1204
01:24:42.040 --> 01:24:46.780
if some are all the inputs to the transactions don't belong to the wallet, which is kinda cool.

1205
01:24:47.880 --> 01:24:49.020
That will help.

1206
01:24:49.895 --> 01:24:52.715
So, essentially, there's been this sort of, like, push

1207
01:24:53.094 --> 01:24:53.594
to

1208
01:24:54.215 --> 01:24:54.715
allow

1209
01:24:55.094 --> 01:24:57.275
the client the Bitcoin client software

1210
01:24:58.300 --> 01:24:59.520
to to have

1211
01:25:00.300 --> 01:25:04.800
a a a more formalized way of adding nonstandard things.

1212
01:25:05.420 --> 01:25:06.555
So so, yeah,

1213
01:25:06.955 --> 01:25:08.015
That's kinda nice.

1214
01:25:08.955 --> 01:25:09.455
Eclair,

1215
01:25:10.555 --> 01:25:14.575
adds support for fee bumping, duo funded lightning setup transactions,

1216
01:25:16.510 --> 01:25:19.570
and add support for signet. Nice to see more signet support.

1217
01:25:20.750 --> 01:25:29.895
You guys you guys, jump in if you guys have comments about any of this stuff. Okay? I'll just keep, I'll just keep going here. LDK updates support for any messages

1218
01:25:30.595 --> 01:25:33.255
with the ability to send, reply paths

1219
01:25:33.610 --> 01:25:35.150
and decode them when received.

1220
01:25:37.850 --> 01:25:46.605
H w I adds support for p 2, for a p to page to top root key path spans using bit box 2 inside the devices.

1221
01:25:47.385 --> 01:25:48.605
Okay. Well, that's great.

1222
01:25:51.300 --> 01:25:52.900
Matt is laughing, and I am,

1223
01:25:53.460 --> 01:25:54.440
lost here.

1224
01:25:56.340 --> 01:25:59.000
I was just laughing because you said Bitbox out loud.

1225
01:25:59.380 --> 01:26:00.645
Oh, yeah. Well, that's

1226
01:26:01.205 --> 01:26:05.465
true. No. In this context, I think it's, it's worthy to mention,

1227
01:26:06.325 --> 01:26:08.905
especially because this is probably Chow's work.

1228
01:26:10.810 --> 01:26:13.550
So the the idea for people that don't know is that HWI

1229
01:26:14.010 --> 01:26:16.429
is a library maintained by Core

1230
01:26:17.005 --> 01:26:20.385
that supports all hardware wallets that they can support

1231
01:26:20.845 --> 01:26:21.585
so that,

1232
01:26:22.285 --> 01:26:23.265
there is less,

1233
01:26:24.045 --> 01:26:29.870
issues maintaining all the clusterfuck that it is, all the hardware wallets dependencies for plugging them in on a USB,

1234
01:26:30.490 --> 01:26:33.150
or, we actually have a PR open for NFC.

1235
01:26:34.145 --> 01:26:35.264
I like I like the,

1236
01:26:36.065 --> 01:26:45.070
hardware wallets where you don't have to use the hardware wallet interface. Yep. That's kind of the whole point. Although, I mean, I I think HWI is a a a great project,

1237
01:26:45.610 --> 01:26:46.650
but I'm too,

1238
01:26:47.610 --> 01:26:49.230
I don't like plugging things in.

1239
01:26:49.595 --> 01:26:53.775
Yeah. I don't know. That is the correct way of of looking at it. Right? I mean, unlike,

1240
01:26:54.155 --> 01:26:58.255
the FUD against Airgap, which is the weirdest thing I have ever heard in my life,

1241
01:26:58.740 --> 01:27:08.280
You know, some some projects claim that plugging it in is safer than than not plugging it in. Like, I can't even begin to comprehend how that might take place. My grog brain,

1242
01:27:08.695 --> 01:27:10.075
like, I I am not

1243
01:27:10.535 --> 01:27:12.955
a, like, computer security expert,

1244
01:27:13.335 --> 01:27:16.475
because that rabbit hole gets very deep very fast.

1245
01:27:17.119 --> 01:27:30.465
For me, my grog brain argument for it is literally just insanity checks. I want to be like, it's it's not about the it's it's not even necessarily about the actual security of the computers themselves. Maybe plugging in a USB

1246
01:27:31.005 --> 01:27:37.360
in some way that I don't understand is somehow just as safe as, an SD card because of all the microcontroller

1247
01:27:37.740 --> 01:27:38.240
stuff.

1248
01:27:38.700 --> 01:27:40.720
But at the same time, when I can,

1249
01:27:41.500 --> 01:27:42.640
move things between

1250
01:27:43.315 --> 01:27:44.295
specialized hardware,

1251
01:27:45.395 --> 01:27:46.295
I've I

1252
01:27:46.675 --> 01:27:47.175
operationally

1253
01:27:47.795 --> 01:27:49.095
feel much more comfortable.

1254
01:27:49.875 --> 01:27:52.240
And I can think through each individual step

1255
01:27:53.200 --> 01:28:00.260
with with that kind of sanity, which if I'm dealing with, you know, life savings or something like that, it's like I need that sanity.

1256
01:28:01.035 --> 01:28:04.575
Well, the idea is kinda simple. Right? It forces you into

1257
01:28:04.955 --> 01:28:13.030
proper hygiene. Right? Security hygiene. Exactly. So just just mentally speaking, like, you're in this better space where you're keeping things separate. Right?

1258
01:28:13.970 --> 01:28:21.995
I mean, the micro SD attacks are are are so absurd in how they're funded. Like, first of all, there's never been a a demonstration

1259
01:28:22.375 --> 01:28:23.034
of those,

1260
01:28:23.574 --> 01:28:29.670
and for USB attacks, there's been many demonstration of those for many Bitcoin, wallets.

1261
01:28:31.250 --> 01:28:36.525
And and the micro SD attack can be foiled by simply like, let's say you have, like, $1,000,000,000,000

1262
01:28:37.385 --> 01:28:38.845
in your hardware wallet. Right?

1263
01:28:39.945 --> 01:28:43.085
And and you so like you you truly in the heightened paranoid

1264
01:28:43.465 --> 01:28:47.260
mode like a whole different level. Right? Well, just go to Best Buy,

1265
01:28:47.960 --> 01:28:48.780
buy 50

1266
01:28:49.400 --> 01:28:57.054
micro SD cards for like $2 each of the smallest size. Bring it over and just snap them every time you use them and that's it. Like,

1267
01:28:57.594 --> 01:29:00.014
you're no longer at risk of somebody

1268
01:29:00.554 --> 01:29:05.510
doing this this unproven attack of trying to get into the micro SD, like, microcontroller.

1269
01:29:05.970 --> 01:29:19.945
And assuming that you can even get the hardware wallet to respond to that attack too. If you're getting that paranoid, couldn't you also I asking as a question. I don't know that this is actually legit, but couldn't you also have a

1270
01:29:20.390 --> 01:29:22.010
basic computer setup

1271
01:29:22.469 --> 01:29:34.554
that you pull it in to inspect the data that just came from an SD card and then copy it over to a different SD card as you move it to the cold card. So you're not you're not even like,

1272
01:29:35.175 --> 01:29:35.914
you know,

1273
01:29:36.454 --> 01:29:37.914
one of the SD cards

1274
01:29:38.570 --> 01:29:40.030
being problematic doesn't,

1275
01:29:41.450 --> 01:29:43.150
ruin the whole the whole process.

1276
01:29:43.610 --> 01:29:50.815
Yeah. No. Exactly. Right? Just 1, snap the cards, don't reuse them. 2, you can just use a sanitized computer, right,

1277
01:29:51.275 --> 01:29:52.415
to build the transactions.

1278
01:29:53.195 --> 01:30:01.750
And and you're you're like you're like a whole another level of security here that, like, it's it's like I don't know of an any person aside from,

1279
01:30:02.370 --> 01:30:05.784
Iranian reaching facility in in Iran,

1280
01:30:06.965 --> 01:30:08.184
that was running windows,

1281
01:30:10.005 --> 01:30:14.870
that like has been pound through the air gap barrier. Right? Like

1282
01:30:15.670 --> 01:30:17.690
there is a reason why, like,

1283
01:30:18.070 --> 01:30:24.744
all this, like, big secrets or very important systems run fully air gapped. Right? Because, you know,

1284
01:30:25.045 --> 01:30:32.985
there is no chance of remote attacking it. Like, there's no synchrony on that. Right? You'd have to build a very specific it just gets crazy.

1285
01:30:33.300 --> 01:30:38.520
So, I mean, there's a lot of focus in this topic on on actually signing transactions.

1286
01:30:39.220 --> 01:30:42.680
But to me, the biggest peace of mind of the micro SD

1287
01:30:44.655 --> 01:31:00.870
air gap is is firmware updates because it's just such a So easy. Logically clean process. It's like I download the firmware update on a sanitized computer, and then I just I check the signature, and then I just drag and drop it onto the SD card. Like, that process is just so much

1288
01:31:01.815 --> 01:31:17.260
is it just it feels logically clean to me as opposed to plugging in the USB and then pressing the update. I have no idea what the fuck is happening there. No. And you wouldn't know. Right? Because first of all, if you have a hardware wallet that doesn't have a secure element, it cannot attest to itself.

1289
01:31:17.935 --> 01:31:21.955
Right? So technically, you could have an update that then breaks

1290
01:31:22.575 --> 01:31:32.870
the signature checking. So the device will lie to you that's getting real firmware. Right? And then steals your money that way. So there is a myriad of attacks that way. Like, I don't know. Is there a way to

1291
01:31:33.330 --> 01:31:37.270
even update the firmware on say, like, a Ledger without using Ledger Live?

1292
01:31:38.035 --> 01:31:45.255
Probably not because of the way no. No. Actually, there is. There is. You can download then you have to run some special tools

1293
01:31:45.560 --> 01:32:01.655
and then you can push it in via USB. Right? Yeah. So maybe they could maybe they could simplify that. But at this very moment, the easiest way, like, to I can because with cold card, you can as as Odell would say, you'd literally just download it, check the signatures,

1294
01:32:02.400 --> 01:32:05.540
move it on to the cold card, with an SD card

1295
01:32:05.840 --> 01:32:21.220
and, gives you that green light and everything. And you don't have to be close to the Internet or close to a computer. Right? That's the key. So Yeah. Let's say you have that cold card buried somewhere or, like, some people may keep it in a safe deposit box or whatever. You can just walk in there with the micro SD and a little power bank. Right? Get it done

1296
01:32:21.540 --> 01:32:23.240
and leave. So you never have,

1297
01:32:24.100 --> 01:32:27.480
you physically exposed with the hardware wallet in your person,

1298
01:32:27.780 --> 01:32:30.600
right, to run an update or to run a transaction.

1299
01:32:31.605 --> 01:32:33.465
So it's even more than just

1300
01:32:33.765 --> 01:32:34.745
the actual,

1301
01:32:35.285 --> 01:32:43.850
like, electronic attack. Like, you're not exposing yourself to physical attacks either because you can sign it inside the say, like, a a branch

1302
01:32:44.390 --> 01:32:46.090
safe deposit box location.

1303
01:32:46.390 --> 01:32:48.010
And that gets really cool with multisig.

1304
01:32:48.725 --> 01:33:01.560
Yes. Because you can sign the individual parts and then just ferry an SD card around. Mhmm. That is like fucking tiny SD card. No. I mean, like that micro SD card can it's much more bum compatible than gold.

1305
01:33:02.340 --> 01:33:05.880
Than the OpenDime even, and people are obsessed with that. I know.

1306
01:33:06.804 --> 01:33:13.864
I think people wanna feel like they have something in there. Maybe the MicroSD card just removes that sensation. It's too small. I don't know.

1307
01:33:14.430 --> 01:33:15.330
People are weird.

1308
01:33:15.710 --> 01:33:16.530
Don't judge.

1309
01:33:18.430 --> 01:33:18.930
Alright.

1310
01:33:20.510 --> 01:33:23.570
ALDK we already talked about. H w I b d k.

1311
01:33:24.555 --> 01:33:30.335
Begins verifying both e c d s a and Schnorr signatures immediately after the wallet creates them.

1312
01:33:30.715 --> 01:33:31.115
Okay.

1313
01:33:31.595 --> 01:33:33.615
This recommendation of BIP 340

1314
01:33:34.300 --> 01:33:40.080
was discussed in the newsletter 83. So if you wanna hear the discussion about that, just go to

1315
01:33:40.620 --> 01:33:43.440
Bitcoin OpTech. They have some good writing on that.

1316
01:33:44.795 --> 01:33:46.735
Okay. So this one is a fun one.

1317
01:33:47.114 --> 01:33:51.054
It was, it's actually in the wrong spot here. Supposed to be news and old Twervy.

1318
01:33:51.490 --> 01:33:53.430
So I tweeted about this.

1319
01:33:53.810 --> 01:33:55.030
So, essentially,

1320
01:33:56.210 --> 01:33:57.430
the secure element,

1321
01:33:57.810 --> 01:33:58.470
a ATAC,

1322
01:33:58.850 --> 01:33:59.350
608

1323
01:33:59.650 --> 01:34:00.150
a

1324
01:34:00.975 --> 01:34:04.495
is been described by the manufacturer relabeled as,

1325
01:34:05.055 --> 01:34:07.235
not to be used in new designs.

1326
01:34:08.110 --> 01:34:11.010
And there is hardware wallets out there using in new designs,

1327
01:34:11.389 --> 01:34:11.889
and

1328
01:34:12.190 --> 01:34:13.730
that's a very bad thing.

1329
01:34:14.590 --> 01:34:15.730
It is negligent,

1330
01:34:16.715 --> 01:34:17.215
and

1331
01:34:17.675 --> 01:34:21.534
I I figured I'd I'd bring this up at least because I wanted to comment on that

1332
01:34:22.074 --> 01:34:22.574
and

1333
01:34:23.330 --> 01:34:29.670
for people that don't know how hardware devices sort of how their hardware, like, parts work

1334
01:34:30.290 --> 01:34:30.790
is

1335
01:34:32.695 --> 01:34:34.235
a new a new device,

1336
01:34:35.495 --> 01:34:40.155
sorry, like, say you're a hardware manufacturer. Right? You source your parts

1337
01:34:40.840 --> 01:34:45.500
and and for for parts that are real, mission critical for companies, especially industrial

1338
01:34:45.880 --> 01:34:50.765
that move a lot slower, they'll give you often a timeline of, like, expected life

1339
01:34:51.305 --> 01:34:52.285
of that part.

1340
01:34:52.665 --> 01:35:08.670
And and and these things are very well sort of like fought through and they have proper road maps because they have compliance and all kinds of shit. Right? And you can't just go and replace a part sometimes in a embedded computer that's been fully potted inside a oven of a smelting

1341
01:35:09.375 --> 01:35:15.715
steel facility. Right? So what happens is the the the manufacturer say, hey, listen. You know, we found a flaw in this.

1342
01:35:16.790 --> 01:35:21.930
We're still gonna sell it to you in case you need replacements because you can't change the design, but don't

1343
01:35:22.470 --> 01:35:26.885
put it in new designs because it is no longer safe. Right?

1344
01:35:27.585 --> 01:35:29.844
And that gives that industrial facility

1345
01:35:30.385 --> 01:35:34.670
time to design something new and sort of go through but not stop production.

1346
01:35:35.289 --> 01:35:35.949
Right? Now

1347
01:35:36.329 --> 01:35:41.949
when you're dealing with, like, you know, like this tiny market that that Bitcoin hardwall is,

1348
01:35:42.605 --> 01:35:49.265
especially for Bitcoin only. Like, it it is totally negligent to still use this part. And, there is a tax out there,

1349
01:35:49.725 --> 01:35:50.385
you know,

1350
01:35:51.220 --> 01:36:00.120
in our design, you still need to break the MCU to get to that. It's only older devices that have that that chip. We we immediately changed the new b version

1351
01:36:01.135 --> 01:36:07.715
after it came out. Actually, even before it came out, the manufacturer informed us that that there was, an issue with that part.

1352
01:36:08.540 --> 01:36:12.560
And we got parts to sample test parts of the new part

1353
01:36:13.100 --> 01:36:14.720
and started building in and immediately,

1354
01:36:15.215 --> 01:36:16.271
you know, as,

1355
01:36:16.719 --> 01:36:19.075
started releasing with the with the new part.

1356
01:36:21.135 --> 01:36:23.150
And I I think that it's,

1357
01:36:23.850 --> 01:36:25.150
it's not humble,

1358
01:36:26.730 --> 01:36:35.855
to know because you don't know if you have bugs. Even if you have extra protections, you just don't know. So anyways, you should move to to the new part. So the ATAC,

1359
01:36:36.635 --> 01:36:43.150
608 a should not be used anymore, and if you're still using it just because you wanna ship devices, you're negligent.

1360
01:36:46.010 --> 01:36:49.390
So the MK 4 has 2 secure elements in it.

1361
01:36:51.114 --> 01:37:00.330
Is one of them the 608 a or b. That's the 608 b what? 608 b, which will you will get pound eventually too. And then what's the other one?

1362
01:37:00.650 --> 01:37:01.610
The other one,

1363
01:37:02.250 --> 01:37:06.270
skipped my mind now, but it's from ST. It's a different manufacturer.

1364
01:37:06.810 --> 01:37:09.790
So we change so, essentially, now we have multi vendor,

1365
01:37:10.445 --> 01:37:13.185
multi secure element. So you have to compromise both

1366
01:37:13.565 --> 01:37:17.344
to extract the secret. Yeah. Oh, no. You have to compromise 3 chips.

1367
01:37:17.720 --> 01:37:20.380
The MCU and those 2. Exactly.

1368
01:37:21.480 --> 01:37:23.900
And and you have to do that without destroying the sample.

1369
01:37:24.520 --> 01:37:25.820
Right? Like Right.

1370
01:37:26.385 --> 01:37:29.925
You know, is it possible somebody ever gonna do it? Ledger will do it.

1371
01:37:31.025 --> 01:37:33.925
No. So, by the way, Ledger was never capable

1372
01:37:34.305 --> 01:37:34.805
of

1373
01:37:35.699 --> 01:37:37.560
demonstrating to us that they can get

1374
01:37:37.940 --> 01:37:44.600
the seed off of mark 3, even the original mark 3 that had the a version. So when they did the laser, that was MK 2?

1375
01:37:45.005 --> 01:37:45.505
Yes.

1376
01:37:46.365 --> 01:37:48.785
The original laser. There was a second laser done,

1377
01:37:49.645 --> 01:37:57.650
which they can get into the the 608 a, but they never demonstrated they could get actually the seed out of cold card. It was just theoretically we could.

1378
01:37:58.270 --> 01:38:02.770
But the problem right now is that you have wallets out there in the market that are untested

1379
01:38:03.525 --> 01:38:04.905
by this level of scrutiny,

1380
01:38:05.525 --> 01:38:10.310
so you just don't know. Right? I mean, everybody's gonna find bugs. I mean, lazy ninja found bugs for us,

1381
01:38:10.710 --> 01:38:21.935
you know, and and you go and you fix it and you have to keep on evolving. In some changes, you have to change the hardware, some changes you have to change the for the firmware, and some changes have to sorry, the the below there, and sometimes you have to change the firmware.

1382
01:38:22.635 --> 01:38:29.050
I know we're, like, we're going we're we're deep in hardware while it's secure elements, but I just wanted to say the MK

1383
01:38:29.369 --> 01:38:30.510
4, the case,

1384
01:38:31.050 --> 01:38:45.614
it's nice. It's, like, it's it's it's, it's hard to explain. It's it's smaller. It just feels really nice in the hand. It's like I don't wanna use the MK threes anymore because the MK four just feels so good in the hand. So we've upgraded our industrial designer,

1385
01:38:46.235 --> 01:38:46.735
person.

1386
01:38:47.820 --> 01:38:50.080
He's, he's he's very good,

1387
01:38:50.540 --> 01:38:59.545
and, he's he's done a lot of work for that field to exist because it's the same plastic type. We use a we use a very expensive plastic. It's polycarbonate.

1388
01:39:01.364 --> 01:39:03.140
But we want a certain level of

1389
01:39:04.260 --> 01:39:06.840
of resiliency on the case, and we want that clearness.

1390
01:39:07.780 --> 01:39:10.100
Yeah. It's it's it's, like, it's a lot more polished,

1391
01:39:11.364 --> 01:39:14.905
in that sense. And there is the sliding case too, which I always wanted.

1392
01:39:15.605 --> 01:39:21.490
The sliding case is just there to fidget with while you're recording podcasts. Right? Like this Pretty much. I am fidgeting with this

1393
01:39:21.950 --> 01:39:22.610
tungsten ball.

1394
01:39:23.950 --> 01:39:24.450
Anyways,

1395
01:39:25.870 --> 01:39:39.429
so yeah. What else? The Ethereum merge, I don't know. This was more interesting, like, a couple weeks ago. I think it's been enough. People have talked about enough, and I think have fun not withdrawing is the correct sort

1396
01:39:39.969 --> 01:39:46.550
of answer to it. Unless something else new came up and you guys wanted to mention anything, it's kind of a big deal. And it's not a merge. It's a fork.

1397
01:39:47.005 --> 01:39:49.905
It kind of it triggers me that they call it a merge.

1398
01:39:50.445 --> 01:39:56.864
I mean, it's classic. Right? Like, we saw this during s two x. It's like upgrade. Right? Not fork. They call it upgrade.

1399
01:39:57.470 --> 01:40:03.810
It's marketing language, not technical language. Yeah. It it's kind of like, when they do the rollback was a

1400
01:40:04.110 --> 01:40:04.770
a transitory

1401
01:40:05.390 --> 01:40:06.210
chain state.

1402
01:40:06.895 --> 01:40:07.555
It's a quantitative

1403
01:40:08.015 --> 01:40:08.915
easing, guys.

1404
01:40:09.695 --> 01:40:12.275
Right. I think the merge is important for Bitcoiners

1405
01:40:12.575 --> 01:40:13.635
in just that,

1406
01:40:14.255 --> 01:40:16.100
you know, we've been arguing

1407
01:40:16.480 --> 01:40:22.980
about the merits of proof of stake versus proof of work for so long, and it's always been like theoretical straw man.

1408
01:40:23.565 --> 01:40:24.385
Yep. So

1409
01:40:25.164 --> 01:40:26.625
now having a major chain,

1410
01:40:27.244 --> 01:40:27.744
Ethereum,

1411
01:40:28.204 --> 01:40:29.425
move to proof of stake,

1412
01:40:29.804 --> 01:40:38.150
we should and and do it in probably the strongest adversarial environment they've ever been in because tornado cash sanctions happened, like, 3 weeks before.

1413
01:40:38.610 --> 01:40:40.870
I think there's gonna be some real world

1414
01:40:41.305 --> 01:40:42.605
lessons learned here

1415
01:40:43.225 --> 01:40:44.905
that basically move move

1416
01:40:45.785 --> 01:40:52.690
show the value of proof of work, like, once and for all is my optimistic take. You know, the the problem is this, though.

1417
01:40:53.389 --> 01:40:57.789
1, the people who have Ethereum, they'll give a fuck. Like, they really don't care about,

1418
01:40:58.829 --> 01:41:04.375
verifiable money, about salable money. None of that stuff. Right? They they really don't care.

1419
01:41:04.835 --> 01:41:09.360
If there was a gift that Udi gave the world, it was, like, really just, like,

1420
01:41:09.739 --> 01:41:11.199
explaining to us Bitcoiners

1421
01:41:11.580 --> 01:41:18.475
that all the arguments that we have about Ethereum is that the people who have Ethereum don't care. It's the same way that, like,

1422
01:41:18.935 --> 01:41:19.515
you know,

1423
01:41:19.975 --> 01:41:20.475
client

1424
01:41:21.015 --> 01:41:21.995
states of America

1425
01:41:22.534 --> 01:41:29.440
want the dollar because they want the physical protection and they don't mind that they are at their mercy. Right? It's just part of the model.

1426
01:41:30.059 --> 01:41:32.320
And and I think the biggest issue though is

1427
01:41:32.699 --> 01:41:34.159
we're not gonna see

1428
01:41:34.525 --> 01:41:42.225
the attacks being performed on Ethereum many of much of the time. Right? Because it's all gonna be under NSLs and all kinds of stuff like that.

1429
01:41:42.880 --> 01:41:52.500
And 2 is the ones that are gonna be public are gonna happen much later on. Right? So they're gonna get a good run out of the second, 3rd, 4th version of the scam

1430
01:41:53.285 --> 01:41:56.585
for a while, and and they're very good at that. You gotta give it to them.

1431
01:41:56.965 --> 01:42:00.185
It's like the MMT people. They're very good at

1432
01:42:00.670 --> 01:42:01.330
sort of pushing

1433
01:42:01.790 --> 01:42:03.570
the end of the dancing chairs,

1434
01:42:04.270 --> 01:42:05.489
game to later.

1435
01:42:05.870 --> 01:42:13.315
I think you make a point, with yeah. They're just they don't have the same goals at us. They're they're working towards very different goals.

1436
01:42:13.695 --> 01:42:15.954
And that's sometimes been hard to,

1437
01:42:16.655 --> 01:42:17.715
you know, show.

1438
01:42:18.170 --> 01:42:19.869
There's always been this Mott and Bailey

1439
01:42:20.250 --> 01:42:22.030
in Ethereum where

1440
01:42:22.330 --> 01:42:22.830
it's

1441
01:42:23.210 --> 01:42:26.989
an investment that competes with Bitcoin when it's doing well against Bitcoin.

1442
01:42:27.725 --> 01:42:33.745
But when it's not, it's like, oh, well, actually, we're not competing with Bitcoin at all. It's this you know, it's actually it's the it's the oil

1443
01:42:34.365 --> 01:42:35.585
of of the Internet.

1444
01:42:36.090 --> 01:42:40.190
Bitcoin might be the gold, but we're the oil. And it they come up with some other narrative.

1445
01:42:40.730 --> 01:42:41.230
And

1446
01:42:42.090 --> 01:42:45.765
the the the reason that's a sort of motte and bailey is, like, at the end of the day,

1447
01:42:46.625 --> 01:42:49.765
Ethereum does compete with Bitcoin as a monetary asset.

1448
01:42:50.210 --> 01:42:56.710
That being said, when they say, oh, we're not competing with Bitcoin, they're not wrong in the sense that it's like

1449
01:42:57.010 --> 01:42:58.950
they they're they're trying to

1450
01:42:59.705 --> 01:43:03.885
corner a market in a totally different way. They have a totally different vision.

1451
01:43:04.345 --> 01:43:04.845
And

1452
01:43:05.225 --> 01:43:06.205
it can be difficult

1453
01:43:06.730 --> 01:43:10.510
to differentiate that that vision to some people who are

1454
01:43:10.970 --> 01:43:15.470
not as in the loop as we are. And so the more that they can

1455
01:43:16.195 --> 01:43:16.695
actually,

1456
01:43:17.155 --> 01:43:22.455
stake their grounds in in in, like, a totally different vision of where things ought to go,

1457
01:43:22.915 --> 01:43:24.775
the easier it is for Bitcoin

1458
01:43:25.570 --> 01:43:28.469
to stand apart from everything else. And in fact, now,

1459
01:43:29.010 --> 01:43:33.170
Bitcoin's comparison to all other, proof of work coins is,

1460
01:43:33.969 --> 01:43:34.469
staggering.

1461
01:43:35.155 --> 01:43:43.735
And, we'll we'll see how long it takes for certain things to play out with proof of stake. But at least it gives us that that stark difference of

1462
01:43:44.719 --> 01:43:45.219
Bitcoin.

1463
01:43:45.679 --> 01:43:51.300
Why do we stick with proof of work? It's because we need it for these reasons. And, like, so we can have actual,

1464
01:43:52.485 --> 01:43:53.385
you know, decentralization

1465
01:43:54.325 --> 01:44:03.400
and and and all the things that we we love about Bitcoin. But that creating that difference, I think, is is is great. So thanks, Ethereum, for helping

1466
01:44:03.860 --> 01:44:04.360
helping

1467
01:44:05.300 --> 01:44:06.040
show us,

1468
01:44:06.420 --> 01:44:07.620
why we need this and,

1469
01:44:08.235 --> 01:44:10.014
kinda like ranting on this. But

1470
01:44:10.554 --> 01:44:16.335
this has been a process that's happened throughout the history of Bitcoin is everyone's always,

1471
01:44:17.530 --> 01:44:19.550
you know, wanted to differentiate themselves

1472
01:44:20.250 --> 01:44:23.310
through some future. You know, you know, you have Litecoin

1473
01:44:23.690 --> 01:44:31.795
where it was, you know, a different scripting algorithm that wasn't susceptible to GPUs and then not susceptible to a 6. But, oh, it's also faster.

1474
01:44:32.095 --> 01:44:34.835
And then feather coin is like, oh, well, we're even faster.

1475
01:44:35.400 --> 01:44:41.260
And, you know, you got 6 minute apps. I got 5 minute apps. And it just goes on and on. Right.

1476
01:44:41.960 --> 01:44:43.180
And a lot of

1477
01:44:44.095 --> 01:44:45.235
Bitcoin's value

1478
01:44:46.015 --> 01:44:48.195
has been demonstrated over the year

1479
01:44:48.815 --> 01:44:49.315
through

1480
01:44:49.695 --> 01:44:51.155
a sort of negative illustration.

1481
01:44:51.750 --> 01:45:23.554
It's by the fact that someone has chose it's like, you don't necessarily know why Bitcoin is the way it is. But then when others make a differing choice, it reveals something about this is why Bitcoin is the way it is. I mean, we lost a competitor, which is amazing. That's awesome. Right? We're not competing with them for, like like, hardware dollars for for development. Right? Because, you know, NVIDIA, all these companies. Right? They're not gonna put money in any of the stuff anymore. Right? So they might come and and put all their r and d into the one through chain.

1482
01:45:24.255 --> 01:45:39.094
Yeah. And they have actual, you know, ways to make money through through the mining. But yeah. It's like it's like a, you know, there there's the old Chesterton's fence. People like to talk about that, and I think there's a lot of value in the idea of Chesterton's Fence.

1483
01:45:39.795 --> 01:45:46.215
And whenever people make these different things, it's kinda helping us reveal. It's like, this is why this fence was built.

1484
01:45:46.675 --> 01:45:51.560
And the more we can understand it, the better and the better we can explain it to newcomers.

1485
01:45:52.340 --> 01:45:59.675
And, yeah, Bitcoin continues doing what it's doing. My note didn't even notice the merge. So in the grand scheme of things, it means nothing to me.

1486
01:46:00.775 --> 01:46:06.155
I mean, I a 100% agree with that with that thesis. I mean, that that's kind of where I see

1487
01:46:06.540 --> 01:46:16.625
that that's why I see the merge as important. And, I mean, I love the feather coin mentioned, but to the to the newcomers, like, the big one recently that's been happening is is Solana to me,

1488
01:46:17.085 --> 01:46:23.345
because, like, their their network just, like, pauses, and they're like, okay. We have to unplug our 7 nodes and plug them back in. Pretty much.

1489
01:46:23.670 --> 01:46:25.929
Is there, like, is there a better example

1490
01:46:26.230 --> 01:46:34.965
of why the trade offs are made on Bitcoin the way they are than that recently? Probably not. And and we've seen this with, different custodial stuff and,

1491
01:46:36.625 --> 01:46:40.804
so many different so many different things is we we have to learn through negative example,

1492
01:46:41.380 --> 01:46:44.440
many times. But Solana is just funny because, like, somehow

1493
01:46:44.980 --> 01:46:46.200
somehow it became,

1494
01:46:46.739 --> 01:46:47.239
like,

1495
01:46:48.260 --> 01:46:49.720
the the some

1496
01:46:50.264 --> 01:46:51.324
phenomenal exception.

1497
01:46:52.185 --> 01:47:07.290
Like, a lot of people that I I've talked to, you know, is like, oh, well, like, Bitcoin's great and Solana. It's like, how did Solana even manage to to get in there is, beyond me. They have shoes. Right? Is it Solana that he can buy sell on his shoes at some store?

1498
01:47:08.005 --> 01:47:15.465
I don't know. They're backed by a lot of rich people. So, like, FTX is neck deep in it. They do a lot of sponsorships and stuff. Right?

1499
01:47:15.840 --> 01:47:20.659
I I you know, on the Ethereum thing, like, you know, I am a fan of stable coins. I've always been.

1500
01:47:21.199 --> 01:47:21.519
And,

1501
01:47:22.239 --> 01:47:22.820
you know,

1502
01:47:23.445 --> 01:47:31.865
if I was a stablecoin operator, right, that one of meaningful size that that is concerned about capture and and it gets very tricky very fast,

1503
01:47:32.500 --> 01:47:34.520
You know, being in a chain where,

1504
01:47:35.060 --> 01:47:37.800
nodes in the network can censor me,

1505
01:47:38.820 --> 01:47:39.720
is a problem.

1506
01:47:40.115 --> 01:47:40.855
Right? Because

1507
01:47:41.155 --> 01:47:46.855
stable coins are, like, state actors enemy number 1. Right? Bitcoin really is enemy number 10.

1508
01:47:47.395 --> 01:47:52.310
Like, we we don't even like because they know. Right? That the efforts to break Bitcoin

1509
01:47:53.030 --> 01:47:57.850
I mean, it's much easier to just sort of likes like, the the way they're screwing a Bitcoin is just

1510
01:47:58.445 --> 01:47:58.945
essentially,

1511
01:47:59.724 --> 01:48:00.945
approving every,

1512
01:48:01.724 --> 01:48:09.820
financial instrument that can suppress Bitcoin's price. Right? So so you cannot get in to that they're killing all the on ramps,

1513
01:48:10.840 --> 01:48:17.340
like say a spot ETF for for for the TradFi sort of environment. Right? But they keep on adding all this sort of like shorting

1514
01:48:17.645 --> 01:48:44.190
mechanisms to Bitcoin and the longing too so that they can create all this, like, a lot of shit essentially. They also probably have personal interest in wanting to stack stats to some degree. Yeah. Exactly. And increasingly over time. So it's like, you don't you it it like, we were saying earlier about Zuck, you know, it's like, you know, capturable for the, but not for me. That's right. Even the the government agent who wants to sort of destroy other people's access to uncensorable money

1515
01:48:44.650 --> 01:48:47.390
has their reasons to want uncensorable money.

1516
01:48:47.770 --> 01:48:57.245
You know, I'm finding this a huge win for Bitcoin technically. The fact that, like, state actors can't really do much against Bitcoin practically, so they have to use CME

1517
01:48:57.865 --> 01:48:58.685
on the price.

1518
01:48:59.225 --> 01:49:02.830
You know, like, that that's that's like already gold to stack more.

1519
01:49:03.850 --> 01:49:05.870
That's already gold level security

1520
01:49:06.170 --> 01:49:11.875
at, like, you know, a tenth of the of the of the market capitalization of the total market. Right? So

1521
01:49:12.815 --> 01:49:14.915
it it is already impressive on itself.

1522
01:49:15.455 --> 01:49:15.955
So,

1523
01:49:16.735 --> 01:49:17.485
you know,

1524
01:49:18.050 --> 01:49:18.550
eventually,

1525
01:49:20.050 --> 01:49:24.870
this this paper Bitcoin stuff is is gonna is gonna take a is gonna pound sand. Right?

1526
01:49:25.585 --> 01:49:28.805
Because every other country by the US has a spot ETF.

1527
01:49:29.745 --> 01:49:32.405
So every country of of size,

1528
01:49:32.864 --> 01:49:34.485
economically speaking. So,

1529
01:49:35.590 --> 01:49:43.449
you know, it's it's gonna get weird and interesting. They're not gonna be able to to push this off for too much longer. Right? Eventually, it's gonna have to happen

1530
01:49:44.445 --> 01:49:52.385
And the news of that on itself will break all those shorts too, which is gonna be a monumental clusterfuck, but whatever.

1531
01:49:52.850 --> 01:49:57.330
It it is it is fascinating to watch, especially being in this space for a while. It's,

1532
01:49:57.969 --> 01:50:05.255
to to imagine the magical Internet money is no longer an experiment as Pierre said on that pod. I think it was, expertly called.

1533
01:50:05.715 --> 01:50:09.335
I can say for myself that Bitcoin is no longer an experiment.

1534
01:50:10.195 --> 01:50:10.695
It's

1535
01:50:11.310 --> 01:50:17.889
it's, it's pretty cool to see. I have a random thought process that links back to the previous conversation as well.

1536
01:50:18.515 --> 01:50:25.175
How long do we think it'll take for an Ethereum spot ETF to be the largest validator on the network?

1537
01:50:25.590 --> 01:50:28.890
Oh, it's gonna be a second. Right? Because they're gonna have a lot of

1538
01:50:29.270 --> 01:50:31.050
ETH. Imagine a GBTC

1539
01:50:31.750 --> 01:50:38.315
was e t c or whatever ETH or whatever they have. Yeah. But imagine if GBTC at the peak, okay,

1540
01:50:38.775 --> 01:50:42.395
was a Bitcoin validator. That would be a huge fucking problem.

1541
01:50:42.910 --> 01:50:44.130
I'm excited for that.

1542
01:50:44.750 --> 01:50:47.489
Yeah. It's gonna be, and and people think

1543
01:50:48.110 --> 01:50:48.610
that,

1544
01:50:49.150 --> 01:50:54.565
you know, like, you're gonna do this slashing and all that crap. Like, they don't understand. They're like,

1545
01:50:54.865 --> 01:50:59.925
oh, like, the the bank secrecy act and and like breaking those how do you call those,

1546
01:51:01.650 --> 01:51:03.110
the the financial sanctions?

1547
01:51:03.890 --> 01:51:17.855
It's a big fucking deal for the people who are known. It's like 30 years jail kind of deal. Like they're not gonna break this law. These laws are designed so that the executives themselves make sure that it doesn't happen. Right? Terrible point of capture.

1548
01:51:18.860 --> 01:51:20.800
Well, have fun staying poor.

1549
01:51:21.740 --> 01:51:26.080
Alright. Next one, Spyro, private information retrieval block explorer.

1550
01:51:27.145 --> 01:51:32.045
I I remember seeing a little bit of that. They were coming up with a new way for people to

1551
01:51:32.425 --> 01:51:33.405
check their balances,

1552
01:51:34.025 --> 01:51:36.680
without doxing themselves. That was kind of interesting.

1553
01:51:37.060 --> 01:51:38.680
Do you guys know much about it?

1554
01:51:39.300 --> 01:51:42.360
I saw it on Stacker News last week. It seems promising.

1555
01:51:42.995 --> 01:51:50.215
I don't really understand how it works. It's supposed it uses homomorphic encryption to guarantee your privacy. So we don't have homomorphic

1556
01:51:50.900 --> 01:51:52.840
encryption yet. Does not exist.

1557
01:51:53.700 --> 01:51:58.920
So they must have, like, some way in which there is a trade off, and that's kinda how it happens.

1558
01:52:00.375 --> 01:52:07.195
It seems like that like, what they claim seems fucking awesome. Yes. Basically, you can look up an address,

1559
01:52:07.700 --> 01:52:17.505
get the balance, get the transaction history without them being able to tie that address lookup to the IP address you used to look it up, which has been a major pain point with block explorers.

1560
01:52:18.125 --> 01:52:24.465
And that the main trade off is that it's slightly more compute heavy, but they think they can charge for the service.

1561
01:52:25.889 --> 01:52:26.389
Okay.

1562
01:52:26.850 --> 01:52:29.030
But I don't really understand how it works.

1563
01:52:29.330 --> 01:52:29.830
Okay.

1564
01:52:30.850 --> 01:52:36.615
Sounds like a paper to read, not a a quick pod comment. And I wish they chose a different name.

1565
01:52:37.315 --> 01:52:39.095
Yeah. That was that was confusing.

1566
01:52:39.635 --> 01:52:41.255
Completely unrelated to

1567
01:52:42.409 --> 01:52:50.190
Square's spiral. Yeah. Of course, for even, like, you know, slightly technical people, it's it's not that difficult to set up a private mempool.space,

1568
01:52:52.065 --> 01:52:57.845
or other local block explorer that gives you this without needing all of the, fancy,

1569
01:52:59.040 --> 01:53:00.340
homomorphic encryption

1570
01:53:00.719 --> 01:53:01.219
claims.

1571
01:53:02.400 --> 01:53:04.580
But I do wonder, like, if

1572
01:53:05.965 --> 01:53:08.625
if, like, there might be something here for

1573
01:53:09.245 --> 01:53:10.785
non full node users

1574
01:53:11.245 --> 01:53:13.905
with a wallet integration. Like, there was this cool

1575
01:53:14.639 --> 01:53:23.699
BTC pay alternative called Cypherpunk pay that essentially instead of you running a node, what they did was they would do random tour calls to different

1576
01:53:24.035 --> 01:53:25.975
block explorers to look up your balance.

1577
01:53:26.435 --> 01:53:29.015
So the first thing that came to my head with this was

1578
01:53:29.715 --> 01:53:37.000
maybe you could use something like this to to run a note as a service for people that the note is blind to what you're requesting.

1579
01:53:37.780 --> 01:53:38.280
Right.

1580
01:53:39.895 --> 01:53:41.114
Yep. Yeah. Yeah.

1581
01:53:41.494 --> 01:53:42.135
I I just

1582
01:53:42.695 --> 01:53:50.380
I I also this it it does show the benefit of when you're ready taking the time to actually learn how to set up these resources

1583
01:53:51.239 --> 01:53:55.980
because you can save yourself a lot of the headache of of thinking about the the possibilities

1584
01:53:56.840 --> 01:54:02.605
by just kind of running your own thing. I for me, it's just cool to see publicly traded companies

1585
01:54:03.385 --> 01:54:04.445
having a subsidiary

1586
01:54:04.824 --> 01:54:10.050
that's, like, pouring cash into things that are kinda, like, useless to to them in a way?

1587
01:54:10.430 --> 01:54:12.130
No. This is completely unrelated

1588
01:54:13.150 --> 01:54:14.370
to Square's spiral.

1589
01:54:14.925 --> 01:54:17.745
Really? That's the confusing thing. Yeah. Yes.

1590
01:54:18.765 --> 01:54:27.400
Okay. Alright. So so you know what? Oh, so Spyro is like the name of the thing? Yeah. It's completely different. Oh my god.

1591
01:54:29.204 --> 01:54:30.184
Dear project

1592
01:54:30.724 --> 01:54:31.224
creators,

1593
01:54:31.844 --> 01:54:33.704
and and this happened the other day,

1594
01:54:34.244 --> 01:54:36.025
with, like, this this cool kid

1595
01:54:36.699 --> 01:54:46.655
who, who created a a a block watch, which was, like, a project that we have and we have a trademark for, and he very graciously changed to block screen. Nicely to iOS app.

1596
01:54:47.275 --> 01:54:47.594
And,

1597
01:54:48.155 --> 01:54:50.094
guys, just check the name

1598
01:54:50.635 --> 01:54:57.320
to see if there is other names of projects that are, like, already in existence in your space before you name something.

1599
01:54:57.780 --> 01:54:59.560
As space grows, it becomes

1600
01:55:00.180 --> 01:55:00.680
difficult.

1601
01:55:01.864 --> 01:55:08.204
Anyways alright. Oh, last last thing I'll I'll say on that is, if you you link to btc.usepiral

1602
01:55:10.380 --> 01:55:10.880
dotcom.

1603
01:55:11.820 --> 01:55:13.840
But if you go directly to use spiral.com,

1604
01:55:14.220 --> 01:55:15.280
they do have,

1605
01:55:15.660 --> 01:55:17.760
a link to their research paper,

1606
01:55:18.545 --> 01:55:20.005
that was published in,

1607
01:55:20.865 --> 01:55:21.525
a journal,

1608
01:55:22.305 --> 01:55:24.625
kinda going over what what this,

1609
01:55:25.710 --> 01:55:27.010
you know, whole thing is.

1610
01:55:27.389 --> 01:55:30.530
So I haven't read that, but, it could have some interesting

1611
01:55:30.909 --> 01:55:32.030
cryptography in there that

1612
01:55:32.895 --> 01:55:49.540
and even if it's even if I don't use this here, I don't know if the technology is useful for all kinds of other things that I would use. So By the way, for the people who are still sticking around there, through this whole thing, we made a mistake here on the show notes. Anything from the ATEC 608 a,

1613
01:55:50.304 --> 01:55:50.804
and

1614
01:55:51.264 --> 01:55:56.645
on was not UpTech newsletter, is part of the news and noteworthy, so that's why you're getting a second dose

1615
01:55:57.425 --> 01:55:59.125
of, of other stuff.

1616
01:56:00.820 --> 01:56:06.280
So, anyways, just wanted to mention that. Alright. US Treasury OFAC releases clarification

1617
01:56:06.580 --> 01:56:09.655
on the tornadoes on the tornado cash, sanctions.

1618
01:56:10.115 --> 01:56:12.055
People probably already talked this to deaf.

1619
01:56:12.515 --> 01:56:14.055
It is it is an honorable,

1620
01:56:14.835 --> 01:56:18.500
mention in case the only pod you listen to is this pod.

1621
01:56:19.120 --> 01:56:19.360
So,

1622
01:56:20.960 --> 01:56:27.685
you know, they're essentially saying that code is free speech, which is kinda nice to see because it probably don't wanna get screwed,

1623
01:56:28.065 --> 01:56:30.245
with, with losing in court.

1624
01:56:30.945 --> 01:56:33.685
And, and they're saying they're not gonna go after

1625
01:56:34.860 --> 01:56:36.000
big small transactions,

1626
01:56:37.020 --> 01:56:41.119
and they're saying that, you know, if you comply and you just roll over quickly,

1627
01:56:41.575 --> 01:56:45.515
you know, they will help resolve your things, but you're gonna have to dox your entire life

1628
01:56:45.895 --> 01:56:59.934
and very, very, unsavory stuff. Yeah. They said you can apply for a license to withdraw from Tornado Cash. Yeah. You have to give them full transaction history and KYC info to do it. Yep. It's it's, it's an interesting sort of, like, mafia so tactic.

1629
01:57:00.875 --> 01:57:02.335
Yep. Now you want some protection?

1630
01:57:03.275 --> 01:57:04.040
That's right.

1631
01:57:04.920 --> 01:57:05.320
Alright.

1632
01:57:05.720 --> 01:57:06.540
BIP proposal

1633
01:57:07.240 --> 01:57:19.864
for wallet labels format by Craig Wright. We've had him talk about Craig Roth, bro. Oh, wow. Craig Roth. Craig Raw. Craig Raw. I keep on calling him always wrong. I know he was on the pod, and you called him fucking Craig. Right?

1634
01:57:21.690 --> 01:57:28.510
So you brought this up last week, and I was, like, kind of dozing because we were late in the episode, and I was, like, I'm not aware of this.

1635
01:57:29.055 --> 01:57:41.320
I'm ex like, I we need this. We need Yeah. No. It's great. We need wallet label exports. Like, that is it is fucking massive pain point Yes. Because the best practice is to label all your transactions, but none of our backups

1636
01:57:41.699 --> 01:57:42.920
keep the fucking labels.

1637
01:57:43.300 --> 01:57:49.515
So here's the problem, though. The way that he's proposing this is gonna be an absolute pulling teeth,

1638
01:57:50.615 --> 01:57:56.315
horrible experience trying to get this approved because everybody has opinions about file formats.

1639
01:57:57.000 --> 01:57:58.860
Like just do what you did with PSVT.

1640
01:57:59.160 --> 01:58:12.120
So just release a wallet label export feature in Sparrow and be like, if you want to be compatible with Sparrow, be compatible with Sparrow. Boom. Boom. Yeah. So what my suggestion to him though was to to especially

1641
01:58:12.500 --> 01:58:13.640
divide and conquer

1642
01:58:14.180 --> 01:58:19.160
the bike sharing conversation by having one format that's for wallet interchange

1643
01:58:19.540 --> 01:58:21.000
and one format for humans.

1644
01:58:21.525 --> 01:58:27.465
So you essentially have CSV for humans to to open and you have JSON for wallets to interact.

1645
01:58:27.765 --> 01:58:49.190
And then, now you have the people arguing about 2 more things, so then you can go squeeze in the mail and get it done. And then you just get, like, you get, like, Spectre to do it. Maybe you get, like, to do it. You, like, get a couple big names to, like, just agree with your standard, and then the rest will follow or be left behind. Exactly. But it will be nice to have a bip though. So,

1646
01:58:49.730 --> 01:58:51.190
yeah, keep on the fight.

1647
01:58:51.650 --> 01:58:54.389
By the way, we have the same problem right now with BIP 85.

1648
01:58:55.170 --> 01:58:56.389
Apparently, a

1649
01:58:57.015 --> 01:59:02.695
rule is that we cannot change a BIP if the BIP original submitter does not,

1650
01:59:03.094 --> 01:59:03.594
act

1651
01:59:04.630 --> 01:59:06.969
and we edit passwords to BIP 85.

1652
01:59:08.469 --> 01:59:11.370
So, essentially, I think we're just gonna submit a new BIP

1653
01:59:11.989 --> 01:59:13.050
with a new number

1654
01:59:14.185 --> 01:59:22.890
for that. It's gonna get very weird because, you know, people are gonna die. Right? We're all gonna get old and die and then nobody's gonna be able to act unless you're Craig Wright. Then you can definitely

1655
01:59:23.510 --> 01:59:25.850
bring a laptop and show me how you sign

1656
01:59:26.470 --> 01:59:27.610
your original key

1657
01:59:27.910 --> 01:59:30.170
in front of me like Gavin. Just watch out pineapples.

1658
01:59:30.915 --> 01:59:31.655
That's right.

1659
01:59:32.995 --> 01:59:35.255
Oh, that trial is what a fascinating

1660
01:59:35.555 --> 01:59:37.735
window into the insanity,

1661
01:59:38.035 --> 01:59:38.535
scamminess

1662
01:59:38.890 --> 01:59:41.550
of the human. I love that it's all being filmed.

1663
01:59:41.930 --> 01:59:44.510
Oh, yeah. It's so good. I'm not very bullish,

1664
01:59:45.050 --> 01:59:45.550
because,

1665
01:59:45.930 --> 01:59:49.785
you know, people who are, like, a little bit layman to the law,

1666
01:59:50.165 --> 01:59:57.380
they watch trials and things. They're like, oh, look. Gotcha kind of thing, But that's definitely not how the law works,

1667
01:59:57.840 --> 02:00:01.700
and and and like how the judge will consider each type of evidence and stuff.

1668
02:00:02.114 --> 02:00:02.614
So,

1669
02:00:03.554 --> 02:00:11.014
you know, for me, it's still totally up in the air because especially because I don't know how the Norwegian legal system sort of will review certain different types of evidence.

1670
02:00:11.570 --> 02:00:15.670
But it's just nice to completely, like, make this guy look like a phony.

1671
02:00:16.050 --> 02:00:20.605
Well, I will say that Huddl not on his team are the most bullish I've seen them.

1672
02:00:21.705 --> 02:00:24.925
And, like, I've been in conversations with them since before the trial.

1673
02:00:25.625 --> 02:00:26.425
Yeah. I know. It's,

1674
02:00:27.130 --> 02:00:28.829
you know, people cannot roll over.

1675
02:00:29.210 --> 02:00:40.764
And I I'm pretty sure that Bitcoiners have a high interest in also funding it, generally speaking because, you know, you don't want this asshole to have back to our past statement. A lot of people drag their feet until we gave them a 501c3

1676
02:00:41.224 --> 02:00:50.015
option, tax deductible option. See, there you go. Because people don't know how to package the they they don't know which which accounts to put in because they don't have PR in their accounting team.

1677
02:00:51.295 --> 02:00:54.835
Alright. 0 knowledge Bitcoin blockchain state prover.

1678
02:00:55.455 --> 02:00:56.355
That's a Baofu.

1679
02:00:57.215 --> 02:00:57.715
Stark,

1680
02:00:58.260 --> 02:01:04.280
proven, stateful Bitcoin client enabling, hyper fast trust, let's sync it, and checkpoints. That's kinda cool.

1681
02:01:05.635 --> 02:01:09.415
I don't know too much about this project, but, it seems very interesting.

1682
02:01:10.355 --> 02:01:14.855
Is this, a Reuben project or who's behind this? I don't know.

1683
02:01:15.540 --> 02:01:16.840
Anyways, looks interesting.

1684
02:01:18.020 --> 02:01:20.679
I have I've noticed, like, a lot of push for

1685
02:01:23.635 --> 02:01:24.775
0 knowledge proofs

1686
02:01:25.155 --> 02:01:31.015
and starks and shit on Bitcoin lately on Bitcoin Twitter? Well, the the thing is the privacy people

1687
02:01:31.710 --> 02:01:32.850
who are, like, more,

1688
02:01:33.390 --> 02:01:39.890
like, intense about it and more, like, developers of it have a very hard time with Bitcoin. Right? Because Bitcoin is not private.

1689
02:01:40.325 --> 02:01:43.065
It can be used privately but Bitcoin is not private.

1690
02:01:43.685 --> 02:01:45.625
So and Bitcoin is not gonna change

1691
02:01:46.485 --> 02:01:47.945
to accommodate your privacy

1692
02:01:48.245 --> 02:01:48.745
needs.

1693
02:01:49.530 --> 02:01:50.030
So,

1694
02:01:50.490 --> 02:01:58.670
it's just nice that people will find ways around it and sort of come up with clever ways of of resolving this each of these little problems

1695
02:01:59.015 --> 02:02:01.915
and eventually we see this all in all the apps. Right?

1696
02:02:02.455 --> 02:02:07.755
So power to you trying to do cool things on the Bitcoin net Bitcoin system

1697
02:02:08.210 --> 02:02:20.324
that don't need Bitcoin to change for you. The one they keep talking about is roll ups. I haven't, like, looked into it. Yes. I don't like to look into things that require hard forks because it's just a waste of time. It's not gonna happen.

1698
02:02:21.185 --> 02:02:28.730
But I wonder if I'm gonna have to, like, be forced to look into it because people keep talking about it. Actually, to be fair, roll ups could happen

1699
02:02:29.110 --> 02:02:30.650
because there would not be,

1700
02:02:31.190 --> 02:02:33.050
that there will be a proof from the previous

1701
02:02:34.005 --> 02:02:38.585
roll up and you can technically find the same sort of accountability,

1702
02:02:39.045 --> 02:02:41.535
but it anyways, it's unlikely. Just

1703
02:02:44.550 --> 02:02:47.130
Adam Back said on dispatch that he thinks

1704
02:02:47.750 --> 02:02:52.330
within 10 years, we'll have confidential transactions on Bitcoin, 50% chance.

1705
02:02:54.175 --> 02:02:57.875
Unless the state starts to attack Bitcoiners, I doubt it.

1706
02:02:58.335 --> 02:02:59.555
I find it very unlikely.

1707
02:03:00.175 --> 02:03:00.675
Well,

1708
02:03:00.990 --> 02:03:03.010
you're probably going to start attacking Bitcoiners.

1709
02:03:03.870 --> 02:03:06.770
Not necessarily. Bitcoiners might own the government by then.

1710
02:03:07.150 --> 02:03:07.650
Maybe.

1711
02:03:09.745 --> 02:03:10.565
Alright. Mulvard.

1712
02:03:10.945 --> 02:03:13.445
They have a new little harder device, which is really

1713
02:03:13.825 --> 02:03:29.425
cool. I I love Molvad. They're my favorite hosted VPN provider. They seem to run a tight ship. I mean, obviously, hosted VPN providers, you have to trust them even if they say they don't take logs. Yep. I don't know what they wanna use this device for. They haven't really said yet.

1714
02:03:30.605 --> 02:03:31.105
So

1715
02:03:31.485 --> 02:03:34.785
here's the premise. Anybody who's serious about, like,

1716
02:03:35.659 --> 02:03:36.159
software

1717
02:03:36.460 --> 02:03:37.280
and understand

1718
02:03:37.659 --> 02:03:38.159
captureability

1719
02:03:38.540 --> 02:03:42.000
or or really attack surface understands that a computer

1720
02:03:42.460 --> 02:03:43.119
is hopeless.

1721
02:03:43.965 --> 02:03:47.025
Like hopeless and a phone even more hopeless.

1722
02:03:47.565 --> 02:03:48.065
Right?

1723
02:03:48.445 --> 02:03:48.945
So

1724
02:03:49.405 --> 02:03:56.610
if you start from the premise that you cannot defend the 2 devices, your 2 client devices to to the the world, the Internet. Right?

1725
02:03:57.310 --> 02:04:01.170
Then what do you do? Well, you build your own hardware, specific purpose

1726
02:04:01.594 --> 02:04:07.295
and like fairly secured or just even barely secured is already better than the general purpose device.

1727
02:04:08.470 --> 02:04:12.170
So what I believe they're doing here because information was thin,

1728
02:04:13.430 --> 02:04:16.890
is they're building a little security device for you to authenticate

1729
02:04:17.665 --> 02:04:21.285
into 1, their system, and 2, into other websites.

1730
02:04:21.825 --> 02:04:26.165
So then you don't have the keys for WireGuard and things like that on your desktop.

1731
02:04:26.510 --> 02:04:30.450
So you, like, plug this in and it signs you into mobile, basically.

1732
02:04:31.150 --> 02:04:38.585
Exactly. And other websites probably too. So it creates a nice safe tunnel that you don't have to trust that the computer is being

1733
02:04:38.965 --> 02:04:39.465
secured,

1734
02:04:40.804 --> 02:04:43.304
against the key BAs filtrated. Right?

1735
02:04:44.310 --> 02:04:51.530
Now another cool thing that they're doing too is that they understand that all this authentication hardware devices are all fully backdoored.

1736
02:04:52.355 --> 02:04:55.335
So what they are doing here is they're using an FPGA,

1737
02:04:55.955 --> 02:04:57.015
which is more expensive,

1738
02:04:57.554 --> 02:05:02.619
much higher bar of entry technically speaking because an FPGA is essentially a blank

1739
02:05:03.000 --> 02:05:03.500
microcontroller

1740
02:05:04.119 --> 02:05:05.420
that you get to program

1741
02:05:06.679 --> 02:05:07.980
the silicon functions.

1742
02:05:09.425 --> 02:05:09.925
Right?

1743
02:05:10.625 --> 02:05:14.565
So you do have to have a much higher technical expertise level to program these things,

1744
02:05:15.264 --> 02:05:16.885
and with that you can guarantee

1745
02:05:17.185 --> 02:05:18.165
that the chip

1746
02:05:18.500 --> 02:05:24.360
is doing what it's doing. And FPGAs also have some other security interesting security features and trade offs.

1747
02:05:24.660 --> 02:05:34.655
So it's just it's nice to see people playing around with this. The fact that they did it in the way that they designed it tells me that they have some serious people working on this security problem on their end.

1748
02:05:35.230 --> 02:05:38.290
Pretty bullish to see, call it Internet companies

1749
02:05:39.150 --> 02:05:40.050
taking security

1750
02:05:40.350 --> 02:05:41.090
this seriously.

1751
02:05:43.864 --> 02:05:45.485
So with that,

1752
02:05:46.665 --> 02:05:47.645
we are essentially

1753
02:05:48.185 --> 02:05:48.685
done

1754
02:05:49.065 --> 02:05:50.105
with the

1755
02:05:51.230 --> 02:05:56.210
all the items. I see. I was gonna make another comment on that, if if that's cool.

1756
02:05:56.590 --> 02:06:04.265
Yeah. Of course. If you guys have more to add, please please go for it. Yeah. Well, I was gonna say it's like, I've made this point before online. I've I've pushed back against,

1757
02:06:05.945 --> 02:06:07.325
basically like custodial

1758
02:06:08.310 --> 02:06:12.250
Bitcoin, you know, and and the idea that it's somehow easier

1759
02:06:12.790 --> 02:06:13.290
because

1760
02:06:13.989 --> 02:06:17.610
in order to have a good custodial account, even assuming,

1761
02:06:18.375 --> 02:06:19.995
say like a Coinbase has

1762
02:06:20.535 --> 02:06:22.315
some theoretical perfect security,

1763
02:06:23.575 --> 02:06:30.080
you still control a password to get in. And they're still having to authenticate yourself to Coinbase,

1764
02:06:31.820 --> 02:06:34.320
to, you know, do the things on your account.

1765
02:06:34.705 --> 02:06:38.245
So because of that, you as the individual still have to,

1766
02:06:39.344 --> 02:06:41.844
you know, know how to secure your email.

1767
02:06:42.200 --> 02:06:44.220
You need to learn about 2FA.

1768
02:06:44.680 --> 02:06:50.220
And specifically, like, you know, probably using Google Authenticator, you know, some TOTP

1769
02:06:51.000 --> 02:06:55.405
or as we're kind of seeing here is like people are moving towards web authn

1770
02:06:55.945 --> 02:06:59.565
or other schemes that actually use a hardware dongle.

1771
02:07:00.239 --> 02:07:08.260
And there's all these, like, things that you have to you end up having to learn a lot of stuff. And it's like, if you use the same energy that it takes to learn about password managers,

1772
02:07:08.925 --> 02:07:11.105
about, you know, the the just

1773
02:07:11.485 --> 02:07:13.585
all these different 2FA, etcetera, etcetera.

1774
02:07:14.125 --> 02:07:17.345
If you're already putting in that effort to help with a custodial

1775
02:07:17.960 --> 02:07:21.260
service, you could just as easily direct that energy into,

1776
02:07:22.280 --> 02:07:25.395
learning those same techniques to be able to do custodial

1777
02:07:26.094 --> 02:07:28.335
things. And I think seeing things like this,

1778
02:07:28.975 --> 02:07:32.114
I think it's good one because, like, we do need better authentication

1779
02:07:32.895 --> 02:07:34.195
for online services.

1780
02:07:34.610 --> 02:07:41.110
It's really bad right now. I I especially, the the very worst are the ones that basically use, like, phone numbers.

1781
02:07:41.725 --> 02:07:47.325
Oh my god. It's like the SMS stuff is idiotic. And and there's some services where it's it's almost,

1782
02:07:47.805 --> 02:07:48.305
inescapable,

1783
02:07:48.685 --> 02:07:51.425
which is is really unfortunate. Oh, you can't.

1784
02:07:51.810 --> 02:07:56.230
You can't set up your account without it. And now all the financial institutions

1785
02:07:56.610 --> 02:08:07.755
traditional financial institution moved on to SMS. So now your online banking keeps on sending you messages, and it's so annoying. Yeah. And they cannot keep state right because bankers can't do web interfaces.

1786
02:08:08.375 --> 02:08:12.670
So they keep on making you redo the SMS every single time you log in.

1787
02:08:13.530 --> 02:08:19.965
You know, it's it's pretty annoying. Yeah. So to see this, I it's very exciting to me.

1788
02:08:20.505 --> 02:08:26.605
I I I I hope we see more developments on this because for 1, like I said, we do need better web authentication.

1789
02:08:27.870 --> 02:08:30.290
But what I also like is that it's

1790
02:08:31.150 --> 02:08:32.850
people are learning that like

1791
02:08:33.310 --> 02:08:38.344
by nature of what's going on, you actually do need to learn the Bitcoin custody

1792
02:08:38.645 --> 02:08:42.905
Yes. Style security hygiene. That's not that's not actually

1793
02:08:43.364 --> 02:08:44.440
just, you know,

1794
02:08:44.820 --> 02:08:47.460
we like to think of, you know, the a sort of,

1795
02:08:48.100 --> 02:08:49.080
mountain man

1796
02:08:49.540 --> 02:08:50.520
bunker mindset

1797
02:08:51.195 --> 02:08:52.795
is is involved with,

1798
02:08:53.755 --> 02:08:54.815
Bitcoin custody.

1799
02:08:55.115 --> 02:08:59.500
But really, it's actually just plain common sense computer

1800
02:09:00.199 --> 02:09:02.059
security that's going into it. And so

1801
02:09:02.360 --> 02:09:10.165
I like seeing developments like this because people are going to have to learn and this this can help them ease into it. Similar to how I was saying about ledger. It's like,

1802
02:09:10.864 --> 02:09:20.180
the more ease of access and normalized it is. So, like, you need to have a little device for things. You need to, you know, write these things down and don't share them with anything anyone.

1803
02:09:20.560 --> 02:09:31.445
Not only does that help people to Bitcoin and make them more ready to hold their own keys and take charge of their own money, but it also helps with the rest of their online activity as well.

1804
02:09:31.870 --> 02:09:34.610
So I I I think this is great. I think I think,

1805
02:09:35.150 --> 02:09:39.230
you know, as as bad as the Internet can be, there's lots of,

1806
02:09:39.710 --> 02:09:43.465
room for hope of of various trends that are happening that,

1807
02:09:44.405 --> 02:09:49.545
you know, can make us all a lot safer and better able to communicate with one another how we please.

1808
02:09:50.660 --> 02:09:55.960
And I I I don't think the Internet is dead yet. You know, Bitcoin greatly improved

1809
02:09:56.740 --> 02:09:57.720
computer security.

1810
02:09:58.655 --> 02:10:00.275
Like, re reproducible

1811
02:10:00.895 --> 02:10:03.875
builds were not a thing before. Yeah. It's a Gideon.

1812
02:10:04.335 --> 02:10:12.610
You know, this idea of segregating keys into a device that is, like, source viewable and, like, verifiable was not a thing before.

1813
02:10:13.389 --> 02:10:19.385
You know, FIDO keys are just, you know, some hosted trusted thing too. Like,

1814
02:10:19.685 --> 02:10:26.310
the amount of like, for example, protecting your secrets from from computer cameras around you when you're doing, like,

1815
02:10:26.690 --> 02:10:31.190
you know, the the seed words, like, there is just so much improvement

1816
02:10:31.730 --> 02:10:34.225
in, like, self custody of security

1817
02:10:34.685 --> 02:10:36.705
that happen, without third parties,

1818
02:10:37.085 --> 02:10:41.105
being participating in the security ceremony. Right? Yeah.

1819
02:10:42.140 --> 02:10:48.640
It's huge. A lot of these things, like, they they existed, but it it felt like you had to be an Edward Snowden

1820
02:10:49.260 --> 02:10:50.000
to actually

1821
02:10:51.034 --> 02:10:57.534
go along with it. So I don't know if you saw, like, the citizen 5 documentary that Yes. Was years ago. And you're, like, you're watching Edward Snowden

1822
02:10:58.050 --> 02:11:00.790
being Edward Snowden, and he's, like, pulling covers

1823
02:11:01.250 --> 02:11:04.950
over himself to type in passwords and all this crazy stuff. And

1824
02:11:05.285 --> 02:11:10.505
you get the sense. It's like, oh, I have to be a crazy person like that in order to do this computer security.

1825
02:11:11.125 --> 02:11:17.690
But we're slowly seeing as I know these these practices, these are just what you have to do if you wanna work with computers.

1826
02:11:18.630 --> 02:11:26.015
And we're working towards it, making making it easier for people and and not so crazy. I mean, we've had Ubiquis for for a long time now.

1827
02:11:27.915 --> 02:11:30.655
But yeah. I I I do think that, you know,

1828
02:11:32.180 --> 02:11:47.465
Bitcoin I think you're right. Bitcoin has helped kind of normalized a lot of that by giving you Normalize being under the sheets. Yeah. And it gives you it gives you, like, an actual valuable thing to protect. There's also a problem where it's like, you know, I don't know what my emails are worth.

1829
02:11:48.885 --> 02:11:51.790
Yeah. But that's the thing. Right? I mean, like I know what my Bitcoin is worth.

1830
02:11:52.350 --> 02:11:54.210
Everything is a tax surface. Right?

1831
02:11:54.590 --> 02:12:02.305
And people have to be more mindful about it, and Bitcoin is teaching people to be more mindful about it. And and there is this huge industry of both, like,

1832
02:12:02.685 --> 02:12:08.865
free information and and for profit information on how to become more sovereign and more secure.

1833
02:12:09.679 --> 02:12:13.460
Right? Like, the incentives have aligned people to do better.

1834
02:12:14.000 --> 02:12:18.020
You know, like, it it did create this incentive set that was not present before.

1835
02:12:19.005 --> 02:12:20.545
Yeah. It's it's very exciting.

1836
02:12:21.724 --> 02:12:22.224
So,

1837
02:12:22.925 --> 02:12:31.830
yeah. I mean, I'd I'd be very happy to if I think my my biggest complaint about stuff like Ubiquis is just there's not a good way to do backups.

1838
02:12:32.610 --> 02:12:35.415
Like, you almost kinda just have to have It's so stupid.

1839
02:12:35.895 --> 02:12:37.835
Multiple YubiKey or something.

1840
02:12:38.455 --> 02:12:40.155
So most websites let you,

1841
02:12:40.695 --> 02:12:43.630
reset your YubiKey with email. Like,

1842
02:12:44.190 --> 02:12:48.130
it's it's so like it's so dumb. Like at the end of the day, email is all you need,

1843
02:12:48.989 --> 02:12:51.485
to reset any any system. That's,

1844
02:12:51.925 --> 02:13:02.039
that's okay. So, like, this is also a place to pump Mullvad because I just you know, whether or not you wanna, like, be trusting VPNs and stuff, there's a lot to say about their setup.

1845
02:13:02.739 --> 02:13:03.239
And

1846
02:13:03.699 --> 02:13:06.360
I like they they have the like, the coolest

1847
02:13:07.205 --> 02:13:09.705
user signup flow I've ever seen,

1848
02:13:10.325 --> 02:13:13.545
because you basically just generate a Swiss bank number

1849
02:13:13.980 --> 02:13:16.639
account number. And that's just that's your passphrase

1850
02:13:17.020 --> 02:13:24.215
effectively. That's your identity. And if you wanna put money into that account number, you can. And, you know, there's no

1851
02:13:24.695 --> 02:13:30.235
as far as I know, there's no kind of, like, password reset or anything. It's like No email. No password. Just

1852
02:13:30.750 --> 02:13:35.090
generates an account number and that's your account number. Yeah. So it's just here it is.

1853
02:13:35.630 --> 02:13:36.610
Yeah. I love that.

1854
02:13:36.990 --> 02:13:48.390
Why people make me, you know, that was my thing with Nunchuck when I first started. Like, you know, you needed an email to create an account. I'm like, no. No. No. No. No. You go, come on. It it all, like, you're a bit quieter. Let's let's, like,

1855
02:13:48.770 --> 02:13:57.395
just use the the the the private key, the the main private key as your authentication. You either have it or you don't. And if you do, it's already there. So,

1856
02:13:58.655 --> 02:14:06.190
you know, use the XFP as your identifier and then it's actually better you x too. There's nothing to do. You're just logged in. Right?

1857
02:14:06.650 --> 02:14:07.710
So I I hope

1858
02:14:08.250 --> 02:14:12.085
and I I really hope that, like, going forward, like,

1859
02:14:12.465 --> 02:14:21.330
you know, people just stop using email for this stuff. It's unnecessary. You can just have a, like, a a shared handshake with some device and you're done.

1860
02:14:21.710 --> 02:14:26.610
Maybe in the future you have some, like, Tora lightning node that can act as a as a beacon.

1861
02:14:27.225 --> 02:14:29.965
And and if you're using email like 999%

1862
02:14:30.825 --> 02:14:32.605
of all the systems out there,

1863
02:14:32.905 --> 02:14:36.810
then at least let me log in with an email to myself and not have to remember a password.

1864
02:14:37.450 --> 02:14:48.684
You know, you press the button, like and then they send you an email, you click on the link. Skip the bullshit. Exactly. Just skip all the theater. If it's really just protected by email anyway, might as well. Mhmm. Exactly.

1865
02:14:49.224 --> 02:15:02.625
And that there's a lot of stuff out there that doesn't need a high level of security. Who cares? You know what I mean? Like Yeah. And I think a VPN is one of them. It's like like, if someone gets your account number, okay, they like, Mullvad allows was it 5 5 devices?

1866
02:15:03.165 --> 02:15:16.719
So it's like, you know, someone can start eating up, you know, the bandwidth that Mullvad allows you. And it's like, okay. You're out of $5 and you go make a new one. It's not a big deal. I imagine there's a lot of, services that exist

1867
02:15:17.065 --> 02:15:22.364
that could have this model of, like, you just have an identity and you put money into it.

1868
02:15:22.665 --> 02:15:38.534
And if you stop paying, they just delete the stuff and it's all encrypted anyway. Like, you can imagine cloud storage. Yep. You can imagine, like, a a bit word in type thing. But instead, like, you don't have an email or anything. You just, it's a cloud backup. You have the place you can put stuff.

1869
02:15:38.914 --> 02:15:41.094
And if you stop paying, they delete

1870
02:15:41.795 --> 02:15:48.590
Yep. The thing. And all the stuff was encrypted anyway. So they don't even know what they were storing exactly. They just know it followed some schema.

1871
02:15:50.685 --> 02:16:00.040
And and you just go on with that. And I could even like, I don't see why there shouldn't be burner emails like that as well, where you can sign up for a service since, like, you know, let me have $5.5

1872
02:16:00.500 --> 02:16:07.960
because I I need to receive an email for from something. So just give me, like, a a fresh email I can have for a little while.

1873
02:16:08.325 --> 02:16:16.665
That's that's not The reason that it doesn't exist is because of legal liability reasons. Mhmm. Yeah. But no. But you know what? Apple does it, and it's great.

1874
02:16:17.150 --> 02:16:34.395
Yeah. But Apple has you, like, dead to run. I know exactly who you are. Yeah. Sure. But but you know what? Like, at the end of the day, like, you know, for that sort of, like, level of of, like, expectation of privacy and security, it's a good trade off. Right? Like But I'm saying that's why it's hard to get, like, no,

1875
02:16:35.020 --> 02:16:36.240
like, no PII

1876
02:16:36.620 --> 02:16:53.824
email addresses. Right? Yeah. Mostly. Well, it's also because of spam. Yeah. Like, the it's it's like the the email providers don't wanna get blacklisted. Right? Because they will get blacklisted if a lot of spam comes from their There there was a thread recently about the guy who just, after 20 years, just threw in the towel on self hosting email.

1877
02:16:54.150 --> 02:16:55.051
Yes. It's hopeless.

1878
02:16:55.990 --> 02:17:12.904
And and people people though they see that and they worry. It's like, oh, is that where Bitcoin is gonna go? But it's like, well, there's there is one key difference, which is Bitcoin has value transfer. That's the whole thing. And so it it has what email doesn't have, which is Well, they're closed because that's where Ethereum's going.

1879
02:17:13.520 --> 02:17:19.620
Yeah. Well, we're gonna learn a lot, right, from from from them. Well, like I said, Bitcoin has value transfer.

1880
02:17:22.055 --> 02:17:28.475
Not just Yeah. And I'll listen. Ethereum is essentially wash trading. Right? Like, I mean, it's it's like a bunch of guys just, you know,

1881
02:17:28.820 --> 02:17:37.585
doing, a leverage of each other and sort of canceling each other out. It's kinda funny. The the point is is with with Bitcoin, I can imagine actual, you know, spam,

1882
02:17:38.205 --> 02:17:49.210
removal. You know? Whether it's as simple as what, Sailor talks about with, like, an orange check on various services. Yep. Or it's a hashcash style thing where it's like, yeah, you need to Fidelity bond.

1883
02:17:49.830 --> 02:17:59.185
Yeah. All these different stuff. Yeah. So I'm I'm a little I'm I'm less bearish on on Bitcoin nodes and lightning nodes than I am on, email servers for for that reason.

1884
02:17:59.645 --> 02:18:02.830
For sure. So let me just go through the events now.

1885
02:18:03.450 --> 02:18:06.270
We try to bring up all the events that are happening.

1886
02:18:06.891 --> 02:18:08.990
Special mention to the Oslo plebes.

1887
02:18:09.655 --> 02:18:12.075
They have a monthly gatherings now in Norway.

1888
02:18:12.695 --> 02:18:15.915
The software company agent is having a meetup in their workspace.

1889
02:18:16.295 --> 02:18:17.915
They're paying for stuff there.

1890
02:18:18.520 --> 02:18:20.380
And I wanted to thank, Tubster

1891
02:18:20.840 --> 02:18:22.360
for reaching out. He,

1892
02:18:22.760 --> 02:18:30.266
he he's active in the show's Telegram. I think it's fun that they do that. There is an Austin Bitcoin Design Club going on.

1893
02:18:30.726 --> 02:18:31.226
Bitblockboom

1894
02:18:31.686 --> 02:18:33.705
was already already happened. Bautic

1895
02:18:34.030 --> 02:18:35.890
eventually happened. BTC Asores,

1896
02:18:36.270 --> 02:18:39.410
it's happening, I think, Thursday or Friday this week.

1897
02:18:40.190 --> 02:18:41.730
Bitcoin Amsterdam, October.

1898
02:18:42.395 --> 02:18:43.295
Bitcoin collective,

1899
02:18:43.835 --> 02:18:44.335
October.

1900
02:18:45.675 --> 02:18:47.215
The Atlanta Bitcoin conference

1901
02:18:47.516 --> 02:18:48.976
is in October as well.

1902
02:18:49.520 --> 02:19:07.000
And adopting Bitcoin is in November. Oh, and one more configurable 2023. So And there's the the Bitcoin Africa conference in December. Okay. We should add to the show notes. By the way, we have links for everything talked in the show on the show notes. But dear conference organizers,

1903
02:19:07.620 --> 02:19:08.600
can we please,

1904
02:19:09.140 --> 02:19:09.640
skip,

1905
02:19:10.580 --> 02:19:11.560
August, September,

1906
02:19:11.940 --> 02:19:12.440
October,

1907
02:19:13.245 --> 02:19:18.225
and November, and start with you can do a conference per day after deer season.

1908
02:19:18.925 --> 02:19:21.485
Essentially, those are the rules. I don't make the rules,

1909
02:19:22.510 --> 02:19:26.130
and then we can all attend all the conferences through the North American Winter,

1910
02:19:26.989 --> 02:19:32.186
and then in May we return to our family lives from May until November.

1911
02:19:32.726 --> 02:19:35.065
That would be my dream set up for conferences.

1912
02:19:35.766 --> 02:19:38.900
Odell, is that a Africa conference? Is that is that in,

1913
02:19:39.620 --> 02:19:44.040
Ghana? Is that correct? Yeah. It's in the capital of Ghana. Accra Accra.

1914
02:19:44.900 --> 02:19:46.636
Pretty cool. Are you going?

1915
02:19:47.655 --> 02:19:52.235
No. I'm I'm a I'm a little bit burnt out on conferences. I need to focus on family.

1916
02:19:52.990 --> 02:19:58.670
See, this is what I'm saying. It's gonna be good. It's they have a they have a good lineup already, and,

1917
02:19:59.150 --> 02:20:02.130
Farida is running it, and she's awesome. Cool. Wonderful.

1918
02:20:03.395 --> 02:20:06.614
That one, like, I felt really bad saying no to. Oh.

1919
02:20:06.915 --> 02:20:09.975
Oh, yeah. I I heard it. I, like, I wish I could go.

1920
02:20:10.595 --> 02:20:14.750
Same, same here. Kinda sucks because, you know, it's like finally

1921
02:20:15.290 --> 02:20:19.230
some real Bitcoin conferences in Africa and, I don't know, timing is bad.

1922
02:20:20.155 --> 02:20:24.255
But I hope other people will go. There's a lot of people going. There will be remote people as well.

1923
02:20:24.556 --> 02:20:27.535
There is so many Bitcoiners now to go represent

1924
02:20:27.880 --> 02:20:31.739
and and sort of like good practices and and like, you know, like

1925
02:20:32.359 --> 02:20:34.700
things that us, the Bitcoin Council

1926
02:20:35.546 --> 02:20:36.285
of Maximalism

1927
02:20:36.905 --> 02:20:37.405
approve.

1928
02:20:37.945 --> 02:20:39.726
So these are all approved Bitcoiners.

1929
02:20:40.506 --> 02:20:41.006
Fundamentalist

1930
02:20:41.386 --> 02:20:41.886
approved?

1931
02:20:42.346 --> 02:20:43.565
That's right. They're all fundamentally

1932
02:20:43.945 --> 02:20:44.445
fundamentalists

1933
02:20:46.010 --> 02:20:50.990
and fundamentally approved. Yes. So I I don't know. I think we're gonna be we're gonna be okay.

1934
02:20:51.930 --> 02:20:53.625
Do you guys have any thoughts?

1935
02:20:54.665 --> 02:20:57.485
Matt, any thoughts? Final closing thoughts?

1936
02:20:58.505 --> 02:21:05.110
No. I'm I'm pretty exhausted right now. I just wanted to thank Bitstien for joining me and MBK on our show.

1937
02:21:05.570 --> 02:21:08.790
Alright. Thank you for having me. And I I hope you guys and I hope Topster,

1938
02:21:09.250 --> 02:21:09.990
are not

1939
02:21:10.705 --> 02:21:17.285
so bummed by the, shitcoin apologist that just infested this this fine fine show.

1940
02:21:17.880 --> 02:21:18.859
So, Bitstien,

1941
02:21:19.479 --> 02:21:25.899
Matt is trolling you because, he he, refused to acknowledge his guest place into the show.

1942
02:21:26.295 --> 02:21:28.955
He makes a very concerted effort into being,

1943
02:21:29.895 --> 02:21:33.115
what he wants strives to be one day a co host of such,

1944
02:21:33.734 --> 02:21:34.135
notor

1945
02:21:34.880 --> 02:21:36.100
notoriety podcast.

1946
02:21:37.120 --> 02:21:38.340
So he's shit hosting.

1947
02:21:39.040 --> 02:22:18.370
NVK NVK keeps trying to shake me by giving me no notice on the podcast. So, like, last night, he was, like, tomorrow morning at 8:30 EST. I'm recording with Bitzstein and Pierre. You're welcome to join if you want to. So then I have to move things around to jump on. Actually, Matt, I'm gonna check the the time line here. I am pretty sure I told you before that. But anyways I assume you guys don't usually do it this early. No. I'm just trying to shake these. This is also, like, just testing Odell is, like, how how determined. That's right. This is like a a fight club thing or it's like he has to you're gonna have, like, a a 3 AM Bitcoin review, and it's like he has to he has to show up to show his actual loyalty.

1948
02:22:18.975 --> 02:22:24.595
That's right. So normally I like to do these things, post noon so that he can have adult beverages,

1949
02:22:25.295 --> 02:22:29.960
while you you do this. I am a a noon, post noon adult beverage believer.

1950
02:22:30.660 --> 02:22:35.479
So I mean, it's 10 AM in Texas. So I guarantee there's plenty of people

1951
02:22:35.895 --> 02:22:37.035
sitting in their garages,

1952
02:22:37.735 --> 02:22:42.476
in various towns Yeah. Popping open a beer even though it's a Tuesday too. Who cares?

1953
02:22:42.940 --> 02:22:47.200
Yeah. Anyways. Well, listen guys. I I I really, really appreciate,

1954
02:22:47.820 --> 02:22:49.745
you guys coming on. It's,

1955
02:22:50.346 --> 02:22:56.085
it it really is a pleasure. It's nice to have people who who know the space, know what the fuck they're talking about,

1956
02:22:56.945 --> 02:22:59.510
have opinions that that are of consequence,

1957
02:23:00.689 --> 02:23:04.069
and, and and go through the arduous barring list

1958
02:23:04.449 --> 02:23:06.949
that we always fail to be impartial with.

1959
02:23:07.525 --> 02:23:14.425

Bitcoin.Review E6: A Review of Updates to Popular Bitcoin Projects with NVK, Bitstein, and Pierre Rochard

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