July 20, 2022
Bitcoin.Review E2: A Review of Updates to Popular Bitcoin Projects with NVK and Justin Moon
We had some audio issues on this one. Tried our best to clean it up. Hope yall find it helpful.
show notes: https://bitcoin.review/podcast/2022/07/15/Episode-02.html
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00:15 - Introduction and welcome
00:38 - Guests introduction and discussion about the podcast
01:53 - BTC Pay server 1.6 release
08:03 - BIP85 password extension proposal
09:15 - Electrum private server update
16:29 - Zeus version 0.6.5 release
17:38 - Blockstream Green QT release 1.1.2
22:11 - Sparrow 1.6.5 release
01:09:10 - Robosats: A lightweight P2P exchange for Bitcoin to fiat
01:27:10 - Bitcoin Optech Newsletter: Updates on Taproot, Robosats, and more
01:29:06 - Half aggregation of BIP 340 signatures
01:29:41 - Non-interactive half aggregation of signatures
01:30:19 - Improvement to Bitcoin with non-interactive half aggregation of signatures
WEBVTT
NOTE
Transcription provided by Podhome.fm
Created: 3/17/2024 4:24:43 PM
Duration: 7154.756
Channels: 1
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Hello.
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Welcome to the Bitcoin review,
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where we'll boringly
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go over the majority of the project's news and updates,
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software, events, and everything you can think of that we want to talk about.
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So do take offense if we don't make don't mention your project,
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or do me a favor and actually contact me to let me know about your news, cause otherwise I don't have a crystal ball. Anyways, thanks everybody for coming here. Today we have Justin Moon
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and Matt Hodele
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as guests.
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Yo yo yo.
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It's great to be here.
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Alright, guys.
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So, we have the list. Why don't we just go right into it? Because the whole point of this spot is to have the least amount of opinions.
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Well, before we do that, MBK,
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you know, I joined you for the the first episode of this rep,
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and you told me you were just using me using me for engagement, and you're gonna get new guests every week. That's right. And you asked me to come on for week 2. So where do we stand on that?
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Well, the problem is the engagement's still not good enough, so we might need a a little bit more of a push, you know, in a few more episodes.
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But then don't worry, you fizzle up.
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I'm I'm looking forward to the rug pull.
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I mean, technically, we're already starting
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that by having Justin here, and maybe maybe if Justin had his
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wonderful mullet on screen, maybe we would be able to replace you, but I don't think we're full on ready.
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Hey. I know what I'm worth, envy
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k. Not so fast.
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No. But in all seriousness, I'm very grateful for the 2 guests. They're they're very well known people in the community,
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and I very much
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appreciate their opinions about the project so they'll they'll be very helpful with us going through this this list.
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And with that,
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let's start with the software releases and project updates.
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So BTC pay server 1.6,
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They apparently had a reasonably sized vulnerability that was disclosed via CVE, which is the correct way to make
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responsible disclosures.
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Note that people making disclosures
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CVEs.
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They have a new lightning dashboard,
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They have invoice receipts.
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They have automatic emails for every event,
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l n URLs,
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and Joomla integration. Oh, also NFC support plug ins. So maybe that's helpful to me.
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So do you guys have any comments about, BTC
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Pay server re release?
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Well, I would just jump in here real quick. First thing is I think they did a release right after this, because there's a bug.
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Oh, great. So what is it? 1.6.1,
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I think, is the correct one.
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Alright. So I'll add that as a plus.
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The key thing is is they were very,
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they were very vague about the vulnerability intentionally, and they said they're gonna release what the actual vulnerability that this release patch is in 6 to 12 months.
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But if you if you read the blog post, it seems like it's pretty severe. So,
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if you're calling BTCPay,
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you should definitely you should definitely update ASAP as, like, the number one takeaway here. And one thing I would note is if you're using Nodle,
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you may have noticed that they haven't updated BTCPay in a long time.
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First of all, is
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intending
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to
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there was some, like, infrastructure that he needed to clean up on the back end before he could continue updating BTCPay, so he's doing that. And second of all,
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BTCPay on Nodal hasn't been updated in such a long time that it's not vulnerable to this vulnerability,
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the CFE.
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See, my personal,
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motto is don't update anything unless you really want the new thing that the the update has
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or it's found out that your specific version is at risk.
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Not updating is great. I must be running at least 3 or 4 OSX versions behind.
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I gotta say, I haven't used b t was it I was a BTCPay
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power user. I was a BTC pay power user in the early days and then haven't used it much recently, but the UI is way better than it used to be.
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That's amazing.
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Yeah. That is a that is a reason to upgrade right there.
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Yeah. I know. It's starting to look like,
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so I have, Stripe as
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our, Kakabuks payment processor.
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And,
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you know, Stripe is is is incredible. Right? I mean, like beautiful UI, incredible API. Those guys are pros.
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And, and it's nice to see
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BTCPay, the open version, right, of something like that to start to look like very professional. It's it's,
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it's very nice for merchants that are not solely technical.
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Do you know anything about the NFC support?
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NFC, what, in BTC pay? Yeah.
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No. How would that look?
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I I don't know. I you know, just just a caveat for most people listening. You know, the the list of updates is really big.
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So, you know, none of us has time to actually go through, like, all the minutiae on it. We're just gonna comment on the things we hear. It's literally a it's literally a podcast about updates, and then Enrique starts it off with telling you that he doesn't update anything.
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I, Well, it wouldn't be right put gold card number 1. He had to put gold card number 2. You know? Just Exactly. Yeah. This is really just a a massive coin kite propaganda play.
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But,
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as far as NFC goes, I mean, it'd be cool to see NFC in as many things as possible. Obviously,
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MBK is just trying to shill his his brand new product. There's I have a feeling that the NFC support that PTC pay server has has nothing to do with our NFC.
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It's probably for store payments.
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Yeah. It's probably for payments at terminals. Yeah. So I I that's right.
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If you click into it, it says, if you have a browser
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if you have a browser compatible NFC phone, currently only Chrome on Android,
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you can use our point of sale to make NFC payments. So this would be like, you can receive you can receive payments using this in the browser, which is pretty cool. Yeah. That's that's that's amazing. That's how
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you know, the so America never really adopted chip and pin,
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so it's just lip frogging from chip and pin to phone NFC for credit cards.
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I think you're gonna see a lot of that in the in the market.
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Alright. One
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thing I would one thing I would just jump in here real quick on the BTCPay topic,
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In terms of, like, key security on the receiving side,
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the on chain, it's really cool the way BTCPay has it set up, so you never
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have to actually keep your keys hot.
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You can just keep your keys on a on a cold card or some other kind of cold storage,
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and you just upload the XPUB. So you're able to receive to new addresses, but your keys aren't actually on
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on the server. Yeah. It's always been like that. Right? Lightning, it's different. Yeah. With Lightning, it's different. I just I'm thinking from, like, the receiving side
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Right. About NFC support. You don't really need
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that.
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So so how is the lnurl
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withdraw for for payouts
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refunds is gonna work?
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So you just do a, like, essentially a request payment back to the other counterparty?
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I have no idea. Okay. I'm guessing they send you an email on URL and you scan it and you get paid. Okay.
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Well, traditionally,
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that's that's the the big sort of drawback from a merchant perspective
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when it comes to Bitcoin and Lightning is that there there is no pool
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version,
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like credit cards do. So for for subscriptions and things like that it's tricky. You know, consumers won't pay unless you take the money from them.
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So, yeah. We'll we'll see how that develop.
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Alright. So,
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the reason why I brought up code card mark for 505,
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it didn't actually come out yet, it's about to.
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It's because
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we are proposing a BIP85
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password extension.
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So we want to extend the BIP85
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to support password generations
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as well. So these are deterministically
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generated
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passwords.
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What's cool about that is,
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say you have a spare code card that you use for this,
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you can actually plug it in the USB and make code card emulate a keyboard. So it pushes the password to the input field.
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Now are you gonna use this for Gmail? No. That's dumb.
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When you're gonna use this is for, like, passwords that really matter. Say your SSH,
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encryption password,
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you know, your Cloudflare password,
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like things that you're a little bit more concerned,
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that you don't necessarily want a computer password manager to have, but you don't wanna have a bunch of backups. So imagine just having like a single private key that rules all your passwords
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for this kind of stuff.
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I think it would be, very useful.
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So,
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maybe we will send an email to the mailing list soon,
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sort of asking for reviews or or, suggestions.
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So that's that.
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Alright. So Electron private server, that's a Chris Peltier project.
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It was a small update. Essentially just, he just fixed a few dependencies there,
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with the new core.
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Oh, yeah. And he had a signet support.
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What else?
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More coin kite chilling here. The sets card, tap signer sets chip. I
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listened twice because I screwed up.
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The bug fixes,
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we actually, released, 1.0.2,
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for the firmware on the cards. So for the devs out there, they have the old cards
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do request new cards because there is a few more checks on how the cards are verified,
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which made it even nicer.
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And,
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the release is imminent.
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We should start shipping soon.
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And I'll bump this the bottom there. And there is also
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a gallery now for sets shipped.
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So that,
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artists can submit their art signed by their card
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with a picture, and essentially, it's the correct NFT.
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And there is an NFC reader now in the store and
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a CLI program for them to submit the art that they can sign themselves.
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So the artist embeds the SatCHIP,
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and then, I guess,
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you can tap it with your phone, and then it pulls up your website.
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Yeah. So give you a bunch of information. Is that how it works? Yeah. It's it's that plus a little more. So
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so essentially, you have a piece of data that essentially certifies the art.
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And, and then the new owner of the art takes the card. People were doing this with OpenDimes,
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but OpenDime was not designed to do that. So we figured, hey. Might as well, support that properly and and create the the right sort of UX.
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So it's basically a chain of custody for art almost? That's right. Well, I wouldn't say chain of custody is more like making art a bear a verifiable bear,
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bear instrument.
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Yeah. But you you can say, like, this was originally from the,
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the Yes. The artist. Like, you can you can you can, like because that's always the problem with art, especially old artists. You don't know Mhmm. Whether it's real or not.
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Yeah. I mean, like, technically, you could sign any data. Right? So,
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let's say
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you
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have, like, a whole
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whole sort of,
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like, plethora
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of, like, super high definition images of the of the artwork and all this stuff. You could create a hash of that and then sign the hash plus a few other bits of data
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and
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and put it out into the world.
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And that means that at least you have a chain
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of
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of say provable ownership
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or or provability,
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certification of the art really,
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through that,
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without,
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without needing a token or a blockchain.
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You could even put into all the time stamps
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and, break Bitcoin.
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Alright.
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C k tap protocol got updated.
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Wait. Do you wanna go into that? Why does open time stamps integration. Break Bitcoin?
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Oh, remember, I think, somebody pointed out that open time stamps actually caused a hard fork of Bitcoin or something. I was being kind of facetious.
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But I have never I didn't bother looking into it, but apparently, there was a problem with that. Justin, did you did you notice that I think might have been on the mailing list or not?
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I have not been paying attention to the mailing list. It's become unbearable.
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Yes.
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We all agree that mailing list became essentially Twitter now about
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data emissions. It's it's
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it's literally unbearable.
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The emissions are not gonna happen, period.
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At least not on my note. Yeah. I mean, there's no reason for debate. Just fucking fork and see
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what
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happens. That that's right. Right? I mean or create futures for it. Make a make a emissions,
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an emissions fork
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token and put on Bitfinex. No. Sorry. On Bitmax.
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Anyways, moving on.
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CKTAP
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protocol
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105.
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It adds the ability of a nonheartened nerve vision.
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It's it's also Quangay.
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Oh, okay.
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That's,
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so that's essentially the protocol to talk to the cards.
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We hope that this becomes a standard and other people use it too.
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Right.
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And then Just just to that You have what? You have
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you have 5 coin guide updates in here. Right? No. I'm actually deleting the last one there because it was just double entry. Oh, I see. Okay.
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You know, the the the thing is, like, if if other projects did the favor and sent me more
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stuff,
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you know, to make my life easier with this, it would be great.
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So where what's the best way for them to send it? Just to let them know.
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Yes. That's a great idea, Matt. So, what people need to do is either go on the website, click on the right side, then submit story,
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or email me at, Bitcoin review atquaint.com
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or go on the Telegram.
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Any any of the places, really. I mean, or go on GitHub on the next pull request for the next episode and comment there.
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That'll be great.
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It is a challenge to find,
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the specific things.
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So, you know, doing best efforts here.
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Oh, and by the way, my wife mentioned listening to the first episode that I do not introduce myself.
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I I did tell her that it's probably a good idea.
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Anyways, so moving on.
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Live and learn. Okay. So I mentioned the oh, yeah. So the reason why we mentioned the CKD app protocol,
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aside from being a properly boring update,
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is that the CK tap react native
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library,
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there was a bounty on that, and that was claimed by the Hexa guys.
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The Hexa guys built
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a React Native library for
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the CoinGeide cards.
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It was released. There's still a few more things sorta to be fixed, but,
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it's getting there.
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And,
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so that was fun. That was a cool bounty being claimed. Check out the Bitcoin Bounty
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bitcoin bounties.org.
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00:16:15.355 --> 00:16:18.655
There is a lot of, a lot of Bitcoin there up for claims for devs.
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Alright.
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So now moving on to Zeus
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version 0.6.5
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release.
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Now you can send to Taproot.
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You saved
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Taproot.
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They have some enhancement Android identity support.
256
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I wonder why.
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And, they have a a much improved Spark support.
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Do, any of you lightning guys, have some comments on that?
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00:16:53.660 --> 00:16:58.399
I fucking love Zeus. Zeus is, the main way I interact with my lightning node.
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Just shout out to Evan and the rest of the team over there.
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They've made really good improvements on interface. The interface is very, very clean right now.
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Nice.
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Yeah. Zeus Zeus is a pretty cool project.
264
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Having you do updated the whole the whole UI redesign.
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That's much better now. It looks, you know? Yeah. It looks, it's very Greek.
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You know? It's pretty cool, the, like, the aesthetic they got going on there. It's way, way, way better.
267
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Yes.
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Alright. Big, Blockstream QT,
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a green QT released 1.1.2.
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So they refactored the JSON version.
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They fixed the UTF 8 memos.
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That's a nice one.
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And they,
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fix, fix for assets with no ticker or issuer. I was actually using it today, and the USD
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quotes were not showing up, so something must have broken with their, Bitfinex,
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API.
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I wish they would have more,
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choices of, price sources. Do you guys use green at all?
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I haven't used green since
280
00:18:11.414 --> 00:18:13.914
like, 5 years or 4 years or something like that.
281
00:18:14.534 --> 00:18:17.034
They're they're new. This is very recent.
282
00:18:18.054 --> 00:18:21.860
One PetPeev I had is that I I like their wallet. I just hated
283
00:18:22.320 --> 00:18:24.740
the their weird multisig thing.
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So,
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00:18:26.880 --> 00:18:30.555
I was waiting for them to to launch single sig for small amounts.
286
00:18:31.255 --> 00:18:45.230
Right? With that specific UI that they have and they have. So now now that works. And it's nice because it has a desktop version too. Right? So you can have a spending wallet that you have, 2 two sources of of interaction points. Do they have coin control yet? Like that.
287
00:18:45.930 --> 00:18:46.430
No.
288
00:18:47.965 --> 00:18:57.105
I know they they, like, make it easy to do accounts. They make it easy to do accounts, so you can use that as, like, a quasi coin control, but it'd be nice to see actual coin control with labeling.
289
00:18:57.660 --> 00:19:02.560
You know, for for for the very, very small spending wallet, I don't really care
290
00:19:03.420 --> 00:19:04.160
as much.
291
00:19:06.894 --> 00:19:12.434
I I have sort of, like, different wallets for different things. That's kinda how I Do you actually use liquid? For spending wallets?
292
00:19:13.610 --> 00:19:25.034
No. I feel like that would be the main reason for me to use it if I was gonna use liquid, which I don't. Because, like, why I feel like it's hard to pick up a bit. If I want an on chain only wallet, I'll use BlueWallet.
293
00:19:28.775 --> 00:19:37.340
I like BlueWallet. The problem is I've been having a lot of issues with transactions getting stuck, negative fees, and all like, things like that. Interesting.
294
00:19:38.429 --> 00:19:39.340
So, yeah.
295
00:19:39.835 --> 00:19:58.355
Well, for for spending, moving spend on Yeah. You could do desktop and mobile. How do you, like, share the seed between the two things? Oh, it's the same. You load the seed. It's the same derivation path, so it doesn't matter. Right? The transactions just show up. Yeah. The the metadata doesn't. Right? So you have to re input the metadata.
296
00:20:00.095 --> 00:20:02.274
Which for all these wallets to have a server,
297
00:20:03.135 --> 00:20:15.545
I mean, why don't they just do end to end encryption and and, like, based on your seed. Right? I'm pretty sure they do that. For the don't the account show up? I thought they No. The accounts do, but not the notes.
298
00:20:16.325 --> 00:20:23.400
Right. Not the not the On each transaction. But I thought they don't have coin control. They have you can do notes on each transact transaction now?
299
00:20:24.260 --> 00:20:27.560
Yeah. But but only on the way out. Right? Not not on your TXOs.
300
00:20:27.940 --> 00:20:35.015
Oh, I see. Okay. Like, if you spend you need for accounting. Right? It's it's not it's not for privacy sake. It's just for accounting sake.
301
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Funny story.
302
00:20:38.035 --> 00:20:38.995
That's probably my
303
00:20:39.890 --> 00:20:42.870
one of my largest open source contributions was,
304
00:20:43.330 --> 00:20:45.910
Green Wallet was not intend encrypting
305
00:20:46.210 --> 00:20:46.710
their
306
00:20:48.565 --> 00:20:49.784
their account labels.
307
00:20:50.565 --> 00:20:56.664
And I pointed it out to them and said, you should just encrypt it with the seed, and they did that. So shout out to me.
308
00:20:57.830 --> 00:21:07.575
Yeah. I know. We've been we've been champions on this for many, many years. It's I really can't comprehend why any project that has a Bitcoin seed in it
309
00:21:08.054 --> 00:21:14.394
would require you to do accounts, to do passwords, to do anything because you can just use the seed
310
00:21:14.930 --> 00:21:18.310
to be your private key for the other stuff. Like,
311
00:21:19.170 --> 00:21:21.990
I brought this up with Hugo with the, Nunchuk
312
00:21:22.545 --> 00:21:27.045
and Nunchuk does that now. So you don't have to create an account with Vimeo anymore, which is nice.
313
00:21:29.505 --> 00:21:35.250
And, they they are adding or added a single sig now. Man, Nunchuk is looking awesome.
314
00:21:36.190 --> 00:21:42.414
I think I think it's gonna be the next one that sort of, like, everybody uses. It's all native too for both platforms.
315
00:21:43.034 --> 00:21:44.335
They rewrote everything.
316
00:21:45.835 --> 00:21:46.235
And,
317
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you know,
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00:21:47.799 --> 00:21:52.620
they don't they don't do like the JavaScript guys where they serialize, deserialize, serialize, deserialize, deserialize
319
00:21:53.320 --> 00:21:56.460
the secrets 50 times in different, like, parts of the software
320
00:21:56.935 --> 00:21:58.395
that that adds a lot of holes.
321
00:21:59.575 --> 00:22:00.075
Anyways,
322
00:22:00.615 --> 00:22:03.275
pretty happy about that. They don't have an update this week.
323
00:22:06.070 --> 00:22:06.890
Right. Next,
324
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Sparrow,
325
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1.6.5.
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00:22:11.775 --> 00:22:13.934
They add, they added Nano,
327
00:22:14.255 --> 00:22:19.315
Ledger Nano s plus support, probably because HWI got updated a few weeks ago.
328
00:22:20.560 --> 00:22:21.540
They allow now
329
00:22:21.920 --> 00:22:27.540
watch only key stores to enable signing from matching connected hardware. Oh, that's nice.
330
00:22:28.000 --> 00:22:28.500
So
331
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essentially, what that does is as long as
332
00:22:32.615 --> 00:22:33.115
the
333
00:22:33.975 --> 00:22:36.715
the key store matches, I think, the XFP,
334
00:22:37.149 --> 00:22:39.730
Right? So so the the the ID of their wallet.
335
00:22:41.309 --> 00:22:41.970
I think
336
00:22:42.350 --> 00:22:45.809
it's hardware sort of agnostic. It doesn't matter which hardware
337
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device has the private keys. As long as the XFP matches, it should just recognize it as that signer.
338
00:22:54.500 --> 00:23:04.815
Yeah. If you set if you set the wallet up with Trezor and then move it over to a cold card, you can still sign with that if the if if Yeah. Because the yeah. The XFP is is derived from the seed. Yeah. That makes sense.
339
00:23:05.435 --> 00:23:07.855
Yeah. That's the way it should be. Right? I mean,
340
00:23:08.240 --> 00:23:13.300
it's actually even more secure. Like if like the software wallets don't even know which hardware are you using,
341
00:23:14.080 --> 00:23:15.220
that would be my preference.
342
00:23:17.875 --> 00:23:23.210
Anyways, I import get gap limit from Electrum wallets. That's great. That's also a really nice
343
00:23:23.770 --> 00:23:26.110
feature for people who are migrating from Electrum.
344
00:23:26.570 --> 00:23:28.909
So now you don't have to worry about,
345
00:23:29.690 --> 00:23:32.350
like, going on a on a gap limit hunt
346
00:23:32.855 --> 00:23:33.995
to find your coins.
347
00:23:35.095 --> 00:23:44.820
That's nice. And, lots of bug fixes. I'm sure I I took the liberty of changing the last point there. Well, massive shout out to Craig Craig Raw, who's,
348
00:23:45.140 --> 00:23:52.075
the lead maintainer and pretty much, like, the one man legend behind Sparrow Wallet. It's quickly become my favorite desktop wallet.
349
00:23:52.535 --> 00:23:53.035
And,
350
00:23:54.375 --> 00:23:58.715
the idea that basically he was sitting there, and he was like, I don't really
351
00:23:59.440 --> 00:24:07.540
I don't really like all the desktop wallets that are available. I'm gonna build my own is one of my favorite parts about the open source ecosystem and and the Bitcoin ecosystem.
352
00:24:08.755 --> 00:24:14.935
I mean, that that's how the best projects always start. Right? Like, it it's people who can do scratching their own itch.
353
00:24:16.899 --> 00:24:18.760
That that's how I think, like, most
354
00:24:19.140 --> 00:24:21.960
Bitcoin projects started, including Bitcoin itself.
355
00:24:23.539 --> 00:24:26.845
So I thought she was sitting there. I wish I could send money without permission.
356
00:24:27.385 --> 00:24:28.845
Yeah. Yeah. You're gonna start Dequay.
357
00:24:33.020 --> 00:24:37.260
Yeah. He came to my our meetup in Austin a couple months ago, and,
358
00:24:38.060 --> 00:24:44.565
it was interesting talking to him how he chooses features and stuff. He said he basically waits until some other project prove,
359
00:24:46.325 --> 00:24:51.860
Craig Craig Oh, Craig Wright. Yes. Sparrow? Craig Raw. No. Craig Raw. Yeah.
360
00:24:55.040 --> 00:25:02.925
Yeah. So he, yeah, he just waits for another project to prove out some idea, like BIP 47 or some of the samurai coin coin joining or,
361
00:25:03.445 --> 00:25:09.310
the, HWI, and these things just waits for it to work. And then he implements in his own wall, which I think is kind of a nice,
362
00:25:10.250 --> 00:25:13.930
an interesting attitude. He just waits waits for someone else to prove that it works, and then just
363
00:25:14.725 --> 00:25:17.384
he he just sort of waits for these for this to happen and
364
00:25:33.315 --> 00:25:33.895
out there,
365
00:25:35.155 --> 00:25:37.414
hardware 2, especially stuff that just works,
366
00:25:37.820 --> 00:25:40.320
is that there is essentially, like, 1 or 2 great
367
00:25:40.940 --> 00:25:42.160
dudes who write
368
00:25:42.780 --> 00:25:44.000
all the hard stuff,
369
00:25:44.300 --> 00:25:45.440
most of the stuff,
370
00:25:45.745 --> 00:25:46.245
and
371
00:25:46.585 --> 00:25:47.085
then
372
00:25:47.425 --> 00:25:50.965
and then sort of like it gets sort of like released through this like beautiful
373
00:25:51.505 --> 00:25:52.005
marketing
374
00:25:53.905 --> 00:25:56.240
package of a company kind of thing.
375
00:25:56.940 --> 00:25:58.559
But, you know, for the longest time,
376
00:25:59.020 --> 00:25:59.520
Facebook
377
00:25:59.980 --> 00:26:05.039
had like 4 guys who did all the merging of the 5,000 engineers in the company.
378
00:26:06.284 --> 00:26:07.505
You know, Google
379
00:26:07.885 --> 00:26:09.505
Google has this this entities
380
00:26:10.125 --> 00:26:10.625
called,
381
00:26:11.325 --> 00:26:12.490
independent consultants or something like that. It's essentially people who are not HR compatible.
382
00:26:17.530 --> 00:26:25.995
And these are the people who actually do all the hardship to Google and all of them essentially just report directly to an executive as a, as a consultant
383
00:26:26.615 --> 00:26:28.875
so they don't have issues with HR.
384
00:26:30.500 --> 00:26:36.920
It's kind of fascinating to me that to this day, it's still pretty true in in, like, most hard stuff out there.
385
00:26:37.940 --> 00:26:39.295
And it kinda makes sense.
386
00:26:39.855 --> 00:26:45.715
A lot of projects are essentially like the the the presentation of, like, just like a handful of people.
387
00:26:47.490 --> 00:26:49.669
It just gets sort of like filtered and softened
388
00:26:49.970 --> 00:26:51.429
by the marketing department.
389
00:26:53.570 --> 00:26:54.070
Anyways,
390
00:26:55.330 --> 00:26:55.830
alright.
391
00:26:57.295 --> 00:26:59.055
So next is, blue wallet,
392
00:26:59.535 --> 00:27:00.035
6.3.1.
393
00:27:00.735 --> 00:27:04.435
It was a tiny release, but in between that there was another one, the 6.3.0.
394
00:27:05.490 --> 00:27:07.030
So I figured I'd bring it up.
395
00:27:07.330 --> 00:27:10.950
So they fixed the lightning wallet, fail on their tor.
396
00:27:11.490 --> 00:27:14.150
The passphrase support on multisig, that's nice.
397
00:27:14.985 --> 00:27:15.965
Import bp39multi
398
00:27:16.664 --> 00:27:17.164
language,
399
00:27:18.424 --> 00:27:18.924
lnurl
400
00:27:19.304 --> 00:27:19.804
off.
401
00:27:22.970 --> 00:27:27.630
I have some comments on BIP 39 multi language. I am not a fan, generally speaking.
402
00:27:28.250 --> 00:27:31.550
I am an English maximalist when it comes to BIP 39
403
00:27:32.665 --> 00:27:34.605
because I think a lot of people get screwed.
404
00:27:35.065 --> 00:27:39.885
Their variation language may not be supported by most projects on the day that they need,
405
00:27:41.090 --> 00:27:41.990
but the base
406
00:27:42.610 --> 00:27:47.750
version, which is the language that the the English version will, and is also the simplest,
407
00:27:48.370 --> 00:27:48.870
smallest
408
00:27:49.555 --> 00:27:50.375
character subset.
409
00:27:52.595 --> 00:28:03.800
So, I just wanna stick it out there that if you can use the the English version, even if it's not your native language, it's probably safer and better. Isn't that counterintuitive in this point? Because you're saying
410
00:28:04.420 --> 00:28:23.190
you're saying that it's hard to restore from the other languages. Well, now it's easier because BlueLaw is available for iPhone and Android. That's 1. It's completely false. And what if they're not around? Well, it's completely false, and you can support. It's false and you can use it with your own nodes. So, I mean, I think this is a massive win for multi language. People can't false build
411
00:28:23.490 --> 00:28:25.509
their own iOS wallet that easy.
412
00:28:26.115 --> 00:28:29.495
But I'm saying, like, if if if BlueWallet, the company disappears,
413
00:28:29.795 --> 00:28:37.250
you can just take the the previous release, and now you have strong multi language support. I mean, I talk to a lot of people in Latin America, for instance.
414
00:28:38.110 --> 00:28:40.210
They really struggle with the English words.
415
00:28:40.990 --> 00:28:44.805
So it's kinda good to see at least, you know, the major languages supported.
416
00:28:46.145 --> 00:28:54.220
I don't know. I mean, like, I learned English not too long ago. And, And you're still learning Even though even though I get a lot of spelling mistakes and everything.
417
00:28:55.960 --> 00:28:57.179
I you know, I'm surviving.
418
00:28:58.280 --> 00:28:59.260
I I listen.
419
00:28:59.799 --> 00:29:05.195
I I think it's a it's a it's a very awful way of of, like,
420
00:29:05.815 --> 00:29:09.915
existing in the world by, like, sort of forcing your language choice on the rest of the world.
421
00:29:10.540 --> 00:29:11.840
But at the same time,
422
00:29:12.380 --> 00:29:19.600
it's very hard not to because unlike like, say for example, temperature that's only got, like, really 3 main contenders,
423
00:29:20.684 --> 00:29:22.785
Languages have, like, you know, 100.
424
00:29:25.804 --> 00:29:27.745
I don't know. It could get very dicey,
425
00:29:28.125 --> 00:29:31.159
especially when you start supporting pass phrases as well.
426
00:29:31.620 --> 00:29:33.880
Then there is, like, the checks for it.
427
00:29:34.259 --> 00:29:37.240
I think there's gonna be a lot more rooms for bugs as well
428
00:29:37.865 --> 00:29:39.085
that won't be known
429
00:29:39.465 --> 00:29:41.565
because nobody's gonna test all the languages
430
00:29:42.185 --> 00:29:43.085
on the software.
431
00:29:43.785 --> 00:29:45.245
I I just find it risky
432
00:29:45.640 --> 00:29:49.260
for for stuff that is, like, this core to your financial,
433
00:29:50.440 --> 00:29:50.940
existence.
434
00:29:53.405 --> 00:29:55.585
I I would personally avoid it.
435
00:29:59.245 --> 00:30:06.850
Well, I mean, there's 2 things there. I mean, I I think I agree with the recommendation that if you can use the English words, use the English words to get more support.
436
00:30:08.270 --> 00:30:11.465
But, also, if you're not, this is a massive update for you.
437
00:30:12.885 --> 00:30:14.185
True. True. Options.
438
00:30:16.885 --> 00:30:19.545
Starting with the embassy 10, 15 years, I bet
439
00:30:20.230 --> 00:30:25.770
they'll in 10, 15 years, I bet all languages will be supported. So it's, you know, it just takes a while to get there.
440
00:30:26.150 --> 00:30:29.654
One one thing I did notice was there was a shitty,
441
00:30:30.355 --> 00:30:31.414
Chinese wallet
442
00:30:34.169 --> 00:30:39.070
that sent me, it was a it was a hardware wallet plus mobile phone
443
00:30:39.610 --> 00:30:40.110
app,
444
00:30:40.730 --> 00:30:49.835
that sent me a few of those. That sent me a free free hardware trying to get me to shill it, and they were unsuccessful. But I noticed some other Bitcoin accounts did shill it.
445
00:30:50.535 --> 00:30:54.850
I'm not gonna name names right now. It was a little bit a while ago, but I did test out the wallet,
446
00:30:55.230 --> 00:30:56.290
and they used,
447
00:30:56.750 --> 00:30:57.490
a nonstandard,
448
00:30:58.270 --> 00:30:59.570
like, number system.
449
00:31:00.585 --> 00:31:01.085
And
450
00:31:02.025 --> 00:31:05.565
I didn't love that, but also at the same time, I, like, talked to their team.
451
00:31:06.105 --> 00:31:09.805
And, you know, they have mostly Chinese speakers, Mandarin speakers
452
00:31:10.490 --> 00:31:16.670
that really, really struggle with seed words as a concept. And for them, they were like, numbers are universal.
453
00:31:17.695 --> 00:31:22.595
So they went with this number seed setup. Well, the problem with numbers, you're gonna need a lot of numbers.
454
00:31:23.215 --> 00:31:25.570
Yeah. There were a lot of numbers. The entropy space
455
00:31:26.210 --> 00:31:27.750
is a lot it's a lot smaller. Right?
456
00:31:29.649 --> 00:31:31.269
So, yeah, I mean,
457
00:31:31.570 --> 00:31:34.230
this there there were no letters at all?
458
00:31:35.315 --> 00:31:43.255
It was just numbers only. I don't this was a couple years ago. How long was the seed? How long was the number? It was it was pretty long.
459
00:31:45.620 --> 00:31:47.000
You would have to be
460
00:31:49.700 --> 00:31:50.200
man.
461
00:31:52.735 --> 00:31:55.395
Well, it really is was it 10 to the 256?
462
00:31:56.015 --> 00:32:01.179
Well, what they might have done was, now that I'm thinking back, they might have had the numbers correspond
463
00:32:01.960 --> 00:32:03.740
to the word list numbers.
464
00:32:05.720 --> 00:32:15.195
Yeah. No. That that that that's still valid. I've seen it before. That's probably it. Like, how many there's, like, 2048, I think, seed words. Something words. Yeah. 2048. And something words.
465
00:32:15.495 --> 00:32:20.470
So, like, each each so there's four four numbers up to four numbers for each word,
466
00:32:20.850 --> 00:32:22.070
and that's what they did.
467
00:32:22.690 --> 00:32:23.909
Oh, that's that's reasonable.
468
00:32:24.355 --> 00:32:30.615
I I've seen those before for backup, and and I actually quite like it, to just use the number for the word.
469
00:32:31.690 --> 00:32:43.565
But that's just remapping. Right? That you're still safe there and you're still leveraging everything that, BP 39 is. But that's actually an interesting balance. I don't remember exactly how they did it, but that's an interesting balance when you talk about multi language support.
470
00:32:45.145 --> 00:32:47.325
If you do the numbers based on the English,
471
00:32:48.200 --> 00:32:51.340
the the the main English seed list seed word list,
472
00:32:52.679 --> 00:32:53.880
then you still have
473
00:32:54.360 --> 00:32:57.895
if if that wallet appears, they can always pull up that list
474
00:32:58.355 --> 00:32:59.975
and then get the English words
475
00:33:00.355 --> 00:33:02.135
and import somewhere else. Do is
476
00:33:02.595 --> 00:33:03.095
pick
477
00:33:03.659 --> 00:33:04.799
12 or 24
478
00:33:05.260 --> 00:33:05.760
numbers
479
00:33:06.140 --> 00:33:06.880
out of
480
00:33:07.980 --> 00:33:08.480
2,048
481
00:33:09.100 --> 00:33:10.355
without repeating them.
482
00:33:10.915 --> 00:33:12.294
That's very, very straightforward.
483
00:33:12.995 --> 00:33:14.294
Right. Plus the checksum.
484
00:33:15.554 --> 00:33:17.075
No. The the no. That that's
485
00:33:17.700 --> 00:33:20.279
no. That the the 12 includes the checksum.
486
00:33:20.980 --> 00:33:28.394
Right. But you can't do that randomly. You have to derive that from the previous 11 or 23. Right? You have to derive the last one. So they will probably make them pick,
487
00:33:29.335 --> 00:33:29.835
11.
488
00:33:31.014 --> 00:33:43.809
Well, you know, knowing knowing, not knowing the wallet, but the way you describing that I assume that the user has no choice in which how the how the the words are picked. I'm sure it's just given to them. Yeah. Zero choice. They just
489
00:33:46.165 --> 00:33:48.265
they just they just give it to you. Security.
490
00:33:51.685 --> 00:33:52.745
I'm sure they use
491
00:33:55.460 --> 00:33:56.840
udev to generate,
492
00:33:57.620 --> 00:33:58.120
entropy,
493
00:33:58.500 --> 00:33:59.320
from Android.
494
00:34:02.179 --> 00:34:02.679
Anyways.
495
00:34:03.635 --> 00:34:05.895
Okay. So moving on to start 9.
496
00:34:06.915 --> 00:34:07.415
EmbaseOS
497
00:34:08.035 --> 00:34:08.535
0.3.1
498
00:34:10.035 --> 00:34:10.855
was released,
499
00:34:12.210 --> 00:34:14.790
and, they have a new password reset flow,
500
00:34:15.170 --> 00:34:16.230
selective backups,
501
00:34:16.530 --> 00:34:17.030
JavaScript
502
00:34:17.730 --> 00:34:18.630
execution environment.
503
00:34:20.175 --> 00:34:23.155
I assume that just means that it's a segregated environment.
504
00:34:23.855 --> 00:34:26.755
Library to import your embassy package projects,
505
00:34:28.130 --> 00:34:31.670
ability to side load packages directly from embassy dashboard,
506
00:34:32.130 --> 00:34:34.470
and they did a bunch of other little improvements.
507
00:34:35.435 --> 00:34:37.855
I think I saw some other EmbaseOS,
508
00:34:39.275 --> 00:34:39.775
update.
509
00:34:41.915 --> 00:34:44.575
Something about making it easy to
510
00:34:45.150 --> 00:34:47.490
do something. Let's take a quick look here.
511
00:34:54.795 --> 00:34:55.535
Oh, yes.
512
00:34:56.075 --> 00:34:57.935
So somebody made a wrapper
513
00:34:58.235 --> 00:35:00.015
or a guide to
514
00:35:00.520 --> 00:35:03.180
make it easy to import or run
515
00:35:03.560 --> 00:35:04.060
bisque
516
00:35:04.680 --> 00:35:06.940
on start 9. That's pretty cool.
517
00:35:08.335 --> 00:35:10.275
Bisk is a very interesting project,
518
00:35:11.295 --> 00:35:13.955
for people that want to, to to trade
519
00:35:14.335 --> 00:35:14.835
off
520
00:35:15.210 --> 00:35:16.910
of, KYC exchanges.
521
00:35:17.770 --> 00:35:20.750
Oh, that's kinda I think that's a first for one of these node projects.
522
00:35:21.770 --> 00:35:25.765
Yes. There is a web UI I haven't used in god knows how long.
523
00:35:26.545 --> 00:35:28.885
I've actually been curious if they do gift cards.
524
00:35:30.760 --> 00:35:33.740
Are are there any other node projects that offer bisque support?
525
00:35:35.560 --> 00:35:41.215
I don't know. I don't think so. I can't imagine it's that hard to integrate, with the other nodes since it's
526
00:35:41.875 --> 00:35:42.375
sort
527
00:35:43.035 --> 00:35:43.535
of
528
00:35:46.555 --> 00:35:50.860
well, if anybody heard about it or is from another project, this is a great
529
00:35:51.240 --> 00:35:51.980
chance to
530
00:35:53.320 --> 00:35:55.420
to shield your project on the next episode.
531
00:35:56.215 --> 00:35:56.715
You
532
00:35:57.015 --> 00:35:58.395
know, just email me,
533
00:35:58.775 --> 00:36:03.915
and we will list it. We are very interested in updates of projects.
534
00:36:05.480 --> 00:36:06.220
All right,
535
00:36:07.400 --> 00:36:09.980
we're moving on to the next list.
536
00:36:10.600 --> 00:36:14.140
I call it a noteworthy list. So it's not necessarily software releases,
537
00:36:15.325 --> 00:36:16.705
not certainly just software,
538
00:36:17.005 --> 00:36:20.865
but it's like stuff that people are working on that got released
539
00:36:21.780 --> 00:36:23.400
or or is gonna be released.
540
00:36:24.099 --> 00:36:24.599
So,
541
00:36:25.060 --> 00:36:25.560
Marshall,
542
00:36:25.940 --> 00:36:27.400
if you guys know OGBTC
543
00:36:27.700 --> 00:36:28.359
on Twitter,
544
00:36:28.980 --> 00:36:30.280
he released his video
545
00:36:32.165 --> 00:36:32.665
using
546
00:36:33.045 --> 00:36:35.945
a board that him and some Chinese friends created
547
00:36:36.325 --> 00:36:37.385
to overclock,
548
00:36:38.565 --> 00:36:39.705
an s 19.
549
00:36:40.210 --> 00:36:42.950
Okay, from 95 terra ash to a
550
00:36:43.970 --> 00:36:45.430
111, terra ash
551
00:36:48.025 --> 00:36:52.605
without, changing the firmware, without doing anything. So no warranty voided.
552
00:36:53.464 --> 00:36:55.645
It's actually a man in the middle. It's kinda brilliant.
553
00:36:56.290 --> 00:36:58.869
And I think they were selling for, like, around $200
554
00:36:59.250 --> 00:37:01.910
or something like that. So he was taking orders,
555
00:37:02.530 --> 00:37:03.349
from Twitter.
556
00:37:04.050 --> 00:37:09.155
That's pretty cool. Mind you, this is a guy who runs one of the biggest mining operations in the world.
557
00:37:11.135 --> 00:37:14.700
I mean, that's pretty massive. What's that? That's like a almost a 15%
558
00:37:15.240 --> 00:37:16.780
performance improvement. Yes.
559
00:37:17.160 --> 00:37:21.420
It's it's just pretty cool. I mean, I just love that people are doing that, especially guys like him.
560
00:37:22.105 --> 00:37:24.845
It's like, I'm sure he's not running that in his mind.
561
00:37:26.025 --> 00:37:27.645
And just anyone for the
562
00:37:28.184 --> 00:37:33.440
the sleep miner is really cool. Anyone who's running an s 19 that's not using that is at a disadvantage now.
563
00:37:34.860 --> 00:37:35.360
Yep.
564
00:37:38.115 --> 00:37:38.775
What else?
565
00:37:39.315 --> 00:37:39.815
Nunchuck,
566
00:37:40.115 --> 00:37:40.615
Tapsigner.
567
00:37:41.475 --> 00:37:43.255
Nunchuck did a a demo,
568
00:37:43.715 --> 00:37:45.415
using Tapsigner to cosign.
569
00:37:46.890 --> 00:37:49.070
So just you just tap, give the PIN,
570
00:37:49.530 --> 00:37:50.670
and you cosign
571
00:37:51.050 --> 00:37:51.950
a multisig
572
00:37:52.490 --> 00:37:53.310
via NFC.
573
00:37:54.185 --> 00:37:55.965
That that was really really cool.
574
00:37:56.665 --> 00:37:58.845
They're gonna release that version of the app soon.
575
00:37:59.865 --> 00:38:02.205
I happen to have a a version of the app.
576
00:38:03.730 --> 00:38:05.590
APK is really, really nice.
577
00:38:07.010 --> 00:38:07.750
What else?
578
00:38:09.970 --> 00:38:10.790
When you release
579
00:38:11.795 --> 00:38:14.055
the the demo video, is that you doing the demo?
580
00:38:14.915 --> 00:38:26.030
No. That was that was Hugo sending it to me. Did you see I called out that it didn't look like it was your hands in the RHR? And he's and Marty said it was your hands, and I said, no. I'm I'm pretty sure that's R and MBK's hands.
581
00:38:29.115 --> 00:38:34.015
You know my fingerprint. Yeah. So just shout out shout out to me on on spotting that in the video.
582
00:38:34.315 --> 00:38:35.135
Well done.
583
00:38:36.795 --> 00:38:38.174
Glad we got that settled.
584
00:38:39.250 --> 00:38:42.069
Have you seen so this Mike Kelly guy on Twitter,
585
00:38:42.530 --> 00:38:45.270
he created a private club essentially,
586
00:38:46.050 --> 00:38:46.790
and he's
587
00:38:47.235 --> 00:38:49.655
the authentication with the cards to do
588
00:38:50.035 --> 00:38:50.855
a to do
589
00:38:51.635 --> 00:39:00.230
essentially, he wants to do proof of reserves for tabs, bar tabs, where you just leave the card on the, like, a a Sats card, a loaded Sats card. You leave it at the the the
590
00:39:00.850 --> 00:39:01.750
the bar people,
591
00:39:02.930 --> 00:39:03.830
as a collateral.
592
00:39:05.635 --> 00:39:09.815
And also use it to authenticate to get into the bar, into this private club.
593
00:39:10.355 --> 00:39:12.135
I found that to be kinda cool.
594
00:39:13.280 --> 00:39:14.980
I think that that has some lags.
595
00:39:15.680 --> 00:39:30.674
So does that mean you have to be That won't happen. Does that mean you have to be a certain level of wealthy to enter the bar? Like, is it like if you don't have a million sats, you're not allowed to be a part of it? I'm sure they would just they do make the tab the size of your collateral probably. That's it.
596
00:39:31.000 --> 00:39:35.819
Is it is I mean, the entering is kinda cool because you can attach memberships
597
00:39:36.520 --> 00:39:39.275
to the private key, public key pair. Mhmm.
598
00:39:40.535 --> 00:39:41.035
But,
599
00:39:41.335 --> 00:39:43.674
when it actually comes time to paying at the bar,
600
00:39:44.214 --> 00:39:45.194
I feel like
601
00:39:46.650 --> 00:39:53.585
that's kind of old world thinking, the tab concept in general. Like, why not just every time you get a drink, if the NFC works really well,
602
00:39:54.065 --> 00:39:56.645
just tap to pay every time you get a drink instead
603
00:39:57.505 --> 00:39:59.765
of giving them the card to hold on to?
604
00:40:01.425 --> 00:40:04.200
I I mean, I don't know. I like the idea
605
00:40:04.660 --> 00:40:05.320
of collateral
606
00:40:05.700 --> 00:40:07.000
based interactions,
607
00:40:08.100 --> 00:40:09.480
especially with bare instruments.
608
00:40:11.805 --> 00:40:18.260
But, yeah, I I mean, maybe maybe that's the way it works. Maybe, maybe just tap of your lightning wallet to pay
609
00:40:18.820 --> 00:40:19.720
each interaction.
610
00:40:20.020 --> 00:40:24.280
I'm just thinking, like, I have you know, I prefer cash, but I have a lot of alcoholic,
611
00:40:24.900 --> 00:40:25.400
friends.
612
00:40:26.525 --> 00:40:27.905
And, you know, some bars
613
00:40:28.285 --> 00:40:29.985
some bars do a tab system,
614
00:40:31.165 --> 00:40:35.020
where they just swipe your card your credit card once, and then they give you back the card, and then
615
00:40:37.020 --> 00:40:37.760
other ones hold on to the card. And,
616
00:40:38.620 --> 00:40:45.664
when the places hold on to the card, I've seen many, many times people wake up the next morning, and they're like, fuck. My credit card's still there?
617
00:40:46.045 --> 00:40:51.984
And at least they have the ability to cancel it. They have, like, fraud checks and stuff. But if you, like, leave your Bitcoin at the bar,
618
00:40:52.370 --> 00:40:57.190
like, that would probably decide. A little different. Right? Because this is, this is for private clubs.
619
00:40:58.530 --> 00:41:07.515
Like, that was his idea. So maybe for the private club, there is, like, other benefits that you might wanna leave your collateral there. I don't know. But then if you have a maybe
620
00:41:07.895 --> 00:41:17.130
So I know I'm, like, jumping like, I I'm thinking out loud mostly, but, you know, we we just launched a private Bitcoin club in Nashville called Bitcoin Park. That's where I am right now.
621
00:41:17.830 --> 00:41:19.770
And and it's a membership system.
622
00:41:21.655 --> 00:41:24.955
And so, like, I've been thinking through these things as well.
623
00:41:26.135 --> 00:41:30.075
And, like, don't like, we know who all our members are. We have a 100 members.
624
00:41:31.440 --> 00:41:34.580
Can you please show the Bitcoin Park for people that don't know, listening?
625
00:41:35.200 --> 00:41:38.020
Bitcoin Park is a social club
626
00:41:38.615 --> 00:41:45.915
mixed with a community center, mixed with a co working space, mixed with an event space, mixed with studios for for recording,
627
00:41:47.420 --> 00:41:49.920
located in Nashville next to the 2 major colleges.
628
00:41:50.619 --> 00:41:53.259
It's community supported, so we have a 100,
629
00:41:53.579 --> 00:41:54.640
in state members,
630
00:41:55.414 --> 00:42:00.315
that pay an annual fee, and then we have a 100 out of state members that pay a reduced annual fee.
631
00:42:00.934 --> 00:42:02.075
You get one of those
632
00:42:03.390 --> 00:42:06.210
little key cards that allow you to enter the facility,
633
00:42:07.869 --> 00:42:09.250
anytime you want, 247.
634
00:42:10.565 --> 00:42:11.065
Connections
635
00:42:11.765 --> 00:42:17.865
stopped. Hey, Matt. Can you repeat? Because we I lost you there for a No. It's still recorded because it records locally.
636
00:42:18.799 --> 00:42:26.500
Yeah. But it didn't record on my side. Well, unless it does upload. Right? Yeah. It just uploads afterwards. So I think everyone heard the the Bitcoin Park,
637
00:42:27.535 --> 00:42:30.035
shill, but we're we're about a month and a half old.
638
00:42:30.415 --> 00:42:32.195
We just had a meet up here yesterday.
639
00:42:33.215 --> 00:42:34.355
Had over 250
640
00:42:34.655 --> 00:42:35.475
people here,
641
00:42:37.680 --> 00:42:40.820
and I guess we had to meet up 2 days ago, and a lot of people stayed.
642
00:42:41.200 --> 00:42:46.464
We have hotels that are close by that we have partnerships with, so you get reduced rates. We're gonna have
643
00:42:46.765 --> 00:42:48.385
private events, public events,
644
00:42:50.204 --> 00:42:57.060
the the whole 9 yards. So very excited about it. So if you are if you are in the Midwest in the United States, consider stopping by.
645
00:42:57.680 --> 00:42:58.900
We'd love to have you.
646
00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:00.820
Very cool.
647
00:43:02.375 --> 00:43:04.555
I heard big I heard good things about it.
648
00:43:06.055 --> 00:43:10.855
Yeah. I mean, I I I had a few meetings with people yesterday that were all hangover from,
649
00:43:11.450 --> 00:43:14.670
the interactions that they had at the Bitcoin Park, this week.
650
00:43:15.690 --> 00:43:20.565
Yeah. We like to we like to do it right now. More than one. That's why I was thinking through the tab idea.
651
00:43:22.305 --> 00:43:28.829
Oh, and and and by the way, the the Bitcoin Magazine office is also in Nashville. Right? Correct.
652
00:43:30.410 --> 00:43:34.349
And, and I heard from them that they love when people drop by.
653
00:43:34.970 --> 00:43:36.750
Correct. As well. Yes.
654
00:43:37.635 --> 00:43:41.974
Nashville just got a really strong booming Bitcoin community. It's really cool to see it grow.
655
00:43:43.075 --> 00:43:45.950
I think, the mag now Bitcoin Magazine has
656
00:43:46.430 --> 00:43:48.930
almost 30 employees based in Nashville here.
657
00:43:49.950 --> 00:43:50.770
Very cool.
658
00:43:53.744 --> 00:43:59.444
Alright. So now moving on to oh, this lightning network PCB,
659
00:44:00.144 --> 00:44:02.164
there is this guy on,
660
00:44:02.625 --> 00:44:05.110
Twitter, that Twitter add me called sufroid.
661
00:44:06.210 --> 00:44:13.190
Lots of cool PCBs on this account. He said he was going to send me more information about this lightning network PCB. It didn't happen.
662
00:44:14.755 --> 00:44:15.895
But I assume
663
00:44:16.435 --> 00:44:17.975
it's sort of like a lightning,
664
00:44:19.715 --> 00:44:24.140
like point of sale or something with a custom board. Anyways, it looked kinda cool.
665
00:44:24.680 --> 00:44:27.900
The link is on the on the notes if anyone is interested.
666
00:44:28.714 --> 00:44:29.214
Alright.
667
00:44:30.234 --> 00:44:33.214
So maybe this is, where Justin will have some
668
00:44:33.595 --> 00:44:34.734
some comments here.
669
00:44:35.115 --> 00:44:39.190
I did not spend too much time on it. Space chain by Rubin.
670
00:44:39.970 --> 00:44:40.950
This is a permissionless,
671
00:44:41.970 --> 00:44:44.470
one way pegged Bitcoin side chain.
672
00:44:44.770 --> 00:44:46.710
All value goes to BGC holders,
673
00:44:47.095 --> 00:44:49.755
all fees go to miners, stable coins, NFTs,
674
00:44:50.455 --> 00:44:51.595
low value payments,
675
00:44:51.975 --> 00:44:52.475
DNS,
676
00:44:52.935 --> 00:44:55.595
scams, all the good stuff can go on top of this.
677
00:44:56.030 --> 00:44:56.770
It seemed interesting,
678
00:44:58.990 --> 00:45:03.250
because it it does the one way peg on Bitcoin side chains,
679
00:45:04.885 --> 00:45:11.305
but it did not seem to need anything from Bitcoin to change to exist, which is always welcome.
680
00:45:12.700 --> 00:45:19.680
I guess the main trade off here is looking to this? The main trade off here is that because it's a one way peg, you can get in, but you can't easily get out. Right?
681
00:45:21.285 --> 00:45:28.905
Yeah. That's that's true for most side chains, right, that are federated or I I don't know how how is the validation of this side chain works?
682
00:45:32.320 --> 00:45:36.820
I don't know. I haven't really looked into this very much. I know it's very promising. Their, Telegram,
683
00:45:37.935 --> 00:45:39.395
is one of the best telegrams,
684
00:45:40.015 --> 00:45:42.115
for technical stuff. There's a lot of really interesting
685
00:45:43.855 --> 00:45:44.355
there.
686
00:45:44.655 --> 00:45:47.075
I know, Reuben just got a, like, a grant.
687
00:45:48.310 --> 00:45:50.650
Who's a Bitcoin core contributor, and,
688
00:45:51.190 --> 00:45:56.375
he's, like, at Dhruv on GitHub and Twitter. So I assume that means he can program well. I don't know.
689
00:45:57.335 --> 00:46:01.675
They just got, like, a a a grant to, actually try to build a space chain.
690
00:46:01.975 --> 00:46:04.155
Because he he he posted, like, a little implementation
691
00:46:04.710 --> 00:46:12.650
that, about 5 months ago that's not it's just like a proof of concept. So it sounds like they're actually trying to build it, which is exciting.
692
00:46:13.185 --> 00:46:20.165
Very cool. Is awesome. We had A lot of it is around, like, trying to get the ecosystem of a shit coin going without the,
693
00:46:21.640 --> 00:46:25.260
creating new tokens. That's basically You know anything you can use.
694
00:46:25.720 --> 00:46:27.500
My view on this is that
695
00:46:28.360 --> 00:46:30.700
the market wants a means
696
00:46:32.495 --> 00:46:37.855
to scam everyone. No. Just kidding. That's that's a lot of people. But now the market really wants a means to,
697
00:46:38.960 --> 00:46:40.900
to create essentially a security.
698
00:46:41.760 --> 00:46:42.260
Right?
699
00:46:44.800 --> 00:46:46.820
And, Matt, you're you're fully
700
00:46:47.120 --> 00:46:47.620
muted.
701
00:46:49.365 --> 00:46:53.065
So, anyway, so so the market really wants a means to create a security. Right?
702
00:46:54.164 --> 00:46:54.664
And
703
00:46:54.964 --> 00:47:00.480
and so far, the most successful version of that is the Ethereum shit coin.
704
00:47:01.420 --> 00:47:01.920
But
705
00:47:02.755 --> 00:47:08.535
people really want, you know, a way to to sort of, like, sell shares of whatever their thing is.
706
00:47:08.914 --> 00:47:14.360
As long as we're honest about how centralized that is, I I don't see any problems with that, and I think that should be done on top of Bitcoin.
707
00:47:15.140 --> 00:47:17.240
All the value should be done on top of Bitcoin.
708
00:47:18.900 --> 00:47:27.985
By the way, the on the list, we have a link to Ruben's presentation, which I hope to watch soon. He was he presented space chains on advancing Bitcoin.
709
00:47:30.500 --> 00:47:33.480
Yeah. I mean, it's very similar to drive chains with, like, the
710
00:47:33.940 --> 00:47:36.760
blind the the the merge mining and stuff like that.
711
00:47:38.020 --> 00:47:41.435
Mhmm. Well, merge mining is kind of a problem. Right? It has the wrong sets of incentives.
712
00:47:43.655 --> 00:47:47.640
Yeah. I mean, I think that as far as I understand all the same things would apply here.
713
00:47:48.900 --> 00:47:49.800
So it's hopeless.
714
00:47:51.460 --> 00:47:56.225
I mean, maybe it's not. Maybe there is like a few sort of small tweaks that make it so
715
00:47:56.525 --> 00:47:57.985
he actually makes it out.
716
00:48:00.045 --> 00:48:03.650
I don't know. If he got a grant and there's a lot of people interested, it must
717
00:48:04.750 --> 00:48:08.290
be substantially different than drive chain which went nowhere.
718
00:48:10.964 --> 00:48:19.690
Yeah. I mean, one of the problems with drive chain is that the the implementation that like, there is an implementation, but it's, like, it's, like, 20,000 lines of Bitcoin core code. So it's just,
719
00:48:20.890 --> 00:48:21.690
they've always
720
00:48:22.090 --> 00:48:28.105
you know, Paul's never really found any reviewers for that because it's just, like, it's sort of too much. You know? Right.
721
00:48:31.685 --> 00:48:32.185
Alright.
722
00:48:33.445 --> 00:48:34.825
Moving on to,
723
00:48:37.160 --> 00:48:38.140
silent payments.
724
00:48:39.799 --> 00:48:44.220
That picked my interest, but another one that I didn't have a lot of time to look into.
725
00:48:44.715 --> 00:48:46.095
Let's just click here.
726
00:48:47.595 --> 00:48:51.855
How silent payments are bringing new privacy protections to Bitcoin?
727
00:48:52.900 --> 00:48:56.200
Yeah. So it's like it's like bit 40 7.
728
00:48:57.620 --> 00:49:01.640
Like, it's kinda like I don't know, like, bolt 12 or any of these where you get, like, a static
729
00:49:04.265 --> 00:49:07.885
well, it's like you get a static thing, a static address that could be paid
730
00:49:08.345 --> 00:49:17.430
into multiple times privacy. Mhmm. So you can't link the payments that are sent to it. And so the way, like, the existing thing that works right now is bit 47,
731
00:49:17.825 --> 00:49:19.845
and so that's anchored in an op return.
732
00:49:20.464 --> 00:49:24.645
And so the the one problem with that is that if you get change from your op return,
733
00:49:25.425 --> 00:49:26.244
and you,
734
00:49:27.839 --> 00:49:28.339
like,
735
00:49:28.640 --> 00:49:33.460
I I think there's, like it it it's, like, kind of assumes that you're in a CoinJoin wallet. Right? Like, in Samurai,
736
00:49:34.015 --> 00:49:34.515
Sparrow,
737
00:49:34.815 --> 00:49:37.714
the project projects that, like, standardize this,
738
00:49:38.414 --> 00:49:43.680
you know, the the the change is just mixed, so it's not a problem to have change from an op return. But,
739
00:49:44.240 --> 00:49:54.945
it's a little it's a little harder with, like, if if you if your wallet can't do, coin joints, then it's bit 47 could potentially be a footgun. That's at least the complaints.
740
00:49:57.485 --> 00:49:57.885
With,
741
00:49:58.590 --> 00:50:03.490
with I'm just trying to remember exactly. Silent payments, there's no on chain footprint to set it up. Mhmm.
742
00:50:04.430 --> 00:50:06.130
And how it works is that
743
00:50:06.895 --> 00:50:11.954
you publish some sort of a key, and then you have to scan every block that comes in.
744
00:50:12.575 --> 00:50:13.075
And,
745
00:50:13.770 --> 00:50:23.125
there's an algorithm to combine your static key with the like, the first input that pays towards it. And so you have to the receiver has to go scan every block, every transaction,
746
00:50:23.425 --> 00:50:26.485
and check whether the first input to this transaction
747
00:50:27.025 --> 00:50:29.525
combined with your static, you know, address,
748
00:50:32.690 --> 00:50:33.670
like, pays you.
749
00:50:34.450 --> 00:50:35.990
If it pays, like, you know, it
750
00:50:36.369 --> 00:50:44.435
it like, basically, why this is spendable by you. So it it doesn't have the on chain footprint to set it up, but there's a lot of, operational overhead in terms of, like,
751
00:50:44.815 --> 00:50:46.595
scanning every single block forever.
752
00:50:46.950 --> 00:50:50.090
But that's that's kind of like a reasonable trade off. Right? Because
753
00:50:50.470 --> 00:50:55.690
one is, unfortunately we have computers that can just keep on scanning blocks for it.
754
00:50:56.174 --> 00:50:58.674
We already do that for transactions anyways, right?
755
00:51:00.174 --> 00:51:03.395
And the second thing that is nice is that there is no coordinator.
756
00:51:03.775 --> 00:51:09.860
I really like that. If I remember right, with BIP 47, you do need a coordinator. No. You don't need a coordinator.
757
00:51:10.240 --> 00:51:12.020
No? That's the whole point. Back.
758
00:51:12.400 --> 00:51:14.180
I I was troubleshooting something.
759
00:51:15.825 --> 00:51:18.964
You you don't you don't need a coordinator for bit 47.
760
00:51:19.984 --> 00:51:22.325
That's the whole point of the opportune,
761
00:51:22.785 --> 00:51:28.200
notification transaction. You and you can recover you can recover directly from seed. Now Samura
762
00:51:28.820 --> 00:51:29.880
and Sparrow,
763
00:51:30.980 --> 00:51:33.155
both have something called PayNIMS
764
00:51:33.535 --> 00:51:43.120
integrated as well. Yeah. That's that's what I thought the coordinator was. No. But that's just a centralized server that connects the BIP 47 payment code to a human readable name.
765
00:51:43.660 --> 00:51:56.335
But technically terrible thing because then you're just creating a link between things on a centralized entity. But anyone can run those those servers Yeah. But nobody does. Linked to a BIP 47 payment code. Alternatively,
766
00:51:56.795 --> 00:52:01.280
you can just use the BIP 47 payment code. But I don't think that's a valid,
767
00:52:02.780 --> 00:52:07.440
it's not a valid like, when you talk about the trade off discussion between silent payments
768
00:52:07.815 --> 00:52:15.915
and BIP 47, that's not valid because anyone could also make a silent payments centralized server that links it to a human readable name as well.
769
00:52:16.600 --> 00:52:19.100
So that's not really valid for the actual,
770
00:52:19.400 --> 00:52:20.220
like, protocol
771
00:52:20.520 --> 00:52:21.020
conversation.
772
00:52:21.480 --> 00:52:24.140
And then to to what Justin said about
773
00:52:24.625 --> 00:52:25.285
the opportune
774
00:52:25.745 --> 00:52:26.725
change being,
775
00:52:27.745 --> 00:52:29.205
a potential foot gun,
776
00:52:29.665 --> 00:52:35.000
I mean, to me, it's like with the alternative is people are gonna use static reused addresses
777
00:52:35.380 --> 00:52:37.720
that are obviously horrible for your privacy.
778
00:52:39.460 --> 00:52:44.645
So if if that change is an issue, then the alternative is also horrible. Probably better.
779
00:52:46.065 --> 00:52:49.310
Yeah. No. I'm not I'm not a fan of linking,
780
00:52:51.130 --> 00:52:52.830
like, future addresses to
781
00:52:53.690 --> 00:52:57.310
a a human legible thing that is sitting on the server somewhere.
782
00:52:59.655 --> 00:53:00.955
That would just be my
783
00:53:02.135 --> 00:53:02.635
my
784
00:53:02.935 --> 00:53:04.795
non preferred set of trade off.
785
00:53:05.530 --> 00:53:09.630
Assuming you could do the same as silent payments. I don't know. It's nice to have more options.
786
00:53:10.330 --> 00:53:12.890
BIP 47 is quite old, and,
787
00:53:13.775 --> 00:53:15.215
aside from from,
788
00:53:15.695 --> 00:53:18.675
Sparrow Samurai, like, it never really took hold.
789
00:53:19.135 --> 00:53:25.650
So maybe the new one is the sort of set of trade offs or implementation that people like and it takes off.
790
00:53:27.790 --> 00:53:28.610
The the privacy
791
00:53:29.665 --> 00:53:30.885
space in general,
792
00:53:31.984 --> 00:53:33.285
you know, it's unfortunate
793
00:53:33.744 --> 00:53:35.125
that it's so small.
794
00:53:35.505 --> 00:53:36.325
There is, what,
795
00:53:36.625 --> 00:53:38.965
5, 4000 coins in CoinJoin
796
00:53:39.490 --> 00:53:40.770
on samurai and
797
00:53:41.650 --> 00:53:48.550
The the biggest markets is small too. And The the biggest the biggest issue with all these things is, you know, if
798
00:53:49.245 --> 00:53:51.985
if if you if you're thinking about something like BIP 47
799
00:53:52.685 --> 00:53:53.985
or silent payments,
800
00:53:54.765 --> 00:53:58.640
usually, probably the number one use case would be a donation use case,
801
00:53:59.680 --> 00:54:07.935
where, like, you you post the static address, the static code, or the static QR code, you know, on social media or wherever you're gonna post it,
802
00:54:08.335 --> 00:54:27.135
and then people can easily pay you donations. And the number one thing in donations is is you don't want friction. You want you want people to be able to easily pay you. So it comes down to wallet support. Right? And so Yeah. But, Matt, nobody should be doing donations on chain anyways for small amounts because Wow. Sure, today the fees are very low. But generally speaking,
803
00:54:27.435 --> 00:54:35.260
that's what lightning solves. Okay. So then silent payments doesn't solve that issue either is what I'm saying. Right? So, like, the issue is, like okay. So even if you have,
804
00:54:35.560 --> 00:54:38.300
you know, 1 or 2 wallets implement silent payments,
805
00:54:39.560 --> 00:54:46.174
it's still not gonna be useful for a donation use case until you have a a large amount of them doing it so you know that, you know, someone can open
806
00:54:46.870 --> 00:54:55.850
let's be honest, most people are using a lot of people are using regulated custodial services. Like, if you can't pay it with with Cash App or or Kraken or some shit like that,
807
00:54:56.175 --> 00:54:57.955
You're just gonna get way less donations.
808
00:54:59.135 --> 00:55:01.555
Here here's a case I like this stuff for.
809
00:55:03.220 --> 00:55:06.119
For example, let's say I have a
810
00:55:06.740 --> 00:55:09.000
a supplier or another partner,
811
00:55:09.540 --> 00:55:15.305
of CoinKite that we do a lot of business together, so we have a lot of sort of, like, Bitcoin transactions back and forth.
812
00:55:16.885 --> 00:55:18.745
It would be nice to have essentially
813
00:55:19.525 --> 00:55:21.145
a a non expub
814
00:55:22.770 --> 00:55:25.270
way of getting new addresses for them,
815
00:55:26.690 --> 00:55:29.830
where we can sort of transact between each other a lot.
816
00:55:32.115 --> 00:55:35.734
So so that's sort of like a case. Okay. So that's fine.
817
00:55:36.194 --> 00:55:58.630
Then you then you don't really need massive wallet support. You just need a wallet that you both agree on. Yeah. Of course. For the donation stuff, I'm sorry, man. But, like, the lightning stuff makes me more and and I'm the lightning bear. Okay. Okay. So And I'm like, I still think the lightning makes a lot more sense for all that stuff because transactions are too small in value. Enrique, I like I pay a lot attention to, like, the donation use case in Bitcoin,
818
00:55:59.890 --> 00:56:05.590
partially because, obviously, I make a lot of content that is audience supported and relies on donations,
819
00:56:05.905 --> 00:56:09.125
but also because I've been doing a lot of work with the HRF and activists.
820
00:56:09.505 --> 00:56:10.885
And if you look at it,
821
00:56:11.265 --> 00:56:14.819
like, at the lightning step adds a lot of complexity,
822
00:56:15.280 --> 00:56:19.940
particularly for activists. Right? So if you look at the Canadian trucker situation,
823
00:56:20.800 --> 00:56:22.420
if they're gonna accept lightning
824
00:56:22.975 --> 00:56:39.940
as their donation use case, they need to figure out how to have an always up node that's hot has hot keys, that has good liquidity No. But I think that Wait one second. So like All the truckers. The truckers didn't want Bitcoin. Okay. But the trucker let's say Guys, not the way Let's say the truckers did want Bitcoin. Bitcoiners.
825
00:56:40.655 --> 00:56:41.635
Wait. Hang on. Bitcoiners
826
00:56:42.494 --> 00:56:47.795
decided to to to fundraise Okay. But that's not my point. That's not my point. My point is
827
00:56:48.260 --> 00:56:49.720
if if you're an individual
828
00:56:50.500 --> 00:56:54.920
protester somewhere and you wanna accept donations in an adversarial environment,
829
00:56:55.575 --> 00:57:04.155
on chain is uniquely suited for that. They just need a a relatively standard protocol to be able to post something static up there that doesn't reuse addresses.
830
00:57:04.599 --> 00:57:11.980
Because then they don't have to deal with liquidity. They can do it all from their mobile phone. They can keep keys offline if they wanna keep keys offline relatively easily.
831
00:57:13.365 --> 00:57:18.825
Yeah. But then none of them are using Dojo, and they are all, like, doxing themselves to a centralized entity.
832
00:57:19.605 --> 00:57:20.325
Look. I'm not
833
00:57:24.070 --> 00:57:24.730
once again
834
00:57:25.190 --> 00:57:33.210
once again, this is this is not my point. I think even in an activist scenario, if you use a wallet without your own node
835
00:57:34.055 --> 00:57:36.875
and you're using it through Tor, and it's through on chain,
836
00:57:37.974 --> 00:57:40.634
and you're not reusing addresses It is an improvement.
837
00:57:41.010 --> 00:57:44.390
That that can be very helpful for people in adversarial environments.
838
00:57:45.329 --> 00:57:46.069
And, unfortunately,
839
00:57:46.450 --> 00:57:47.829
we just don't really so
840
00:57:48.285 --> 00:57:55.025
so you made a good point there that Canadian truckers didn't want Bitcoin. Well, let's say they did. Right? Let's say protesters want Bitcoin.
841
00:57:55.350 --> 00:57:58.010
The major takeaway to me of that debacle
842
00:57:59.430 --> 00:58:04.490
was the current landscape, the way it was set up, is there was one large centralized donation pool
843
00:58:05.075 --> 00:58:19.980
managed by, you know, relatively JW for that. Relatively few individuals that then was spread out. Right? So what you really want to see is you wanna see all the individual protesters be able to basically run their own donation campaign. So you have a bunch of little ones.
844
00:58:20.515 --> 00:58:25.335
Right? And then you start to talk about, okay. So how does enforcement of that look and it becomes whack a mole?
845
00:58:27.234 --> 00:58:27.734
Yep.
846
00:58:28.035 --> 00:58:29.734
Yeah. No. It's it's not
847
00:58:30.660 --> 00:58:41.405
it's not a simple problem, and there is just too many trade offs and too many separate solutions. So I I I don't think we have good answers to that yet, but but I think they're coming.
848
00:58:41.785 --> 00:58:42.605
Yeah. I mean,
849
00:58:42.985 --> 00:58:44.765
every everyone knows I'm the most
850
00:58:45.369 --> 00:58:52.510
I'm the most prolific Fetterman show now, and we have Justin Moon on the pod. But I I do hope that Fetterman's provide a a interesting,
851
00:58:53.450 --> 00:58:59.045
trade off balance for for activists and protesters in adversarial environments that wanna receive donations.
852
00:58:59.905 --> 00:59:01.525
Come on, Justin. That show.
853
00:59:05.030 --> 00:59:06.890
That's Now we're doing a little bit of order.
854
00:59:07.670 --> 00:59:13.345
Yeah. It is. We were going to talk about FedMin, like, later. But you know what? Like, why don't we
855
00:59:14.685 --> 00:59:16.944
why don't we just jump to Fedmint?
856
00:59:19.750 --> 00:59:21.450
I'll switch the order on the notes.
857
00:59:22.070 --> 00:59:25.450
I think I think it's totally worth bringing it up since we're in the topic anyways.
858
00:59:25.910 --> 00:59:28.090
It's a fantastic solution, and Chaumian
859
00:59:28.735 --> 00:59:30.915
servers are not, like, new,
860
00:59:31.935 --> 00:59:34.435
which is kinda great too. It's like proven technology.
861
00:59:36.790 --> 00:59:37.589
Yeah. So it's,
862
00:59:38.230 --> 00:59:44.250
in terms of, like, end user experience that Matt is referring to, it's, Chaumian e cache,
863
00:59:44.555 --> 00:59:45.055
Chaumian
864
00:59:45.755 --> 00:59:48.655
mint. So basically, what that means is it's a custodial thing,
865
00:59:49.355 --> 00:59:51.375
where you somebody has to deposit,
866
00:59:52.400 --> 00:59:53.700
some asset into,
867
00:59:54.079 --> 00:59:56.180
a mint using the traditional terminology,
868
00:59:56.559 --> 00:59:57.540
and then you get
869
00:59:58.000 --> 01:00:00.099
a little bear token, a bear IOU.
870
01:00:01.164 --> 01:00:03.585
And so with some magical crypto,
871
01:00:04.204 --> 01:00:05.184
blind signatures,
872
01:00:06.365 --> 01:00:06.605
the,
873
01:00:08.020 --> 01:00:08.580
what the,
874
01:00:09.140 --> 01:00:10.200
the mint sees
875
01:00:10.580 --> 01:00:11.080
when,
876
01:00:12.180 --> 01:00:14.760
a deposit is made is a blinded
877
01:00:15.140 --> 01:00:15.640
message,
878
01:00:16.625 --> 01:00:28.130
and they produce a blinded signature. And then the user is able to unblind the signature, and and turn into just a normal signature. And so when they wanna redeem this IOU, they present this unblinded signature. And so the key thing is that,
879
01:00:29.630 --> 01:00:30.130
whenever,
880
01:00:30.510 --> 01:00:40.255
Mint sees a redemption of an IOU, they can tell that it's real, that it's valid, but they can't tell which deposit it came from. So your anonymity set is everyone else who's deposited,
881
01:00:41.470 --> 01:00:45.569
and not just, like, the moment of actual deposit, any any transfer of these IOUs.
882
01:00:46.029 --> 01:00:46.769
And so,
883
01:00:47.630 --> 01:00:51.115
that's the idea, and it's the original paper was from, like, 1982.
884
01:00:52.055 --> 01:00:54.075
It's had a checkered history of deployment,
885
01:00:54.455 --> 01:00:55.355
partially because,
886
01:00:56.375 --> 01:01:01.260
generally, you had to have a centralized mint in order to do this because, Fiat doesn't have multisig.
887
01:01:01.720 --> 01:01:04.860
And so Eric Kurian's one of his ideas was that, well,
888
01:01:05.480 --> 01:01:10.164
Bitcoin has multisig, you could make a Federated Chow Me Mint. So, hopefully, it would be,
889
01:01:10.545 --> 01:01:19.670
a little bit less of a honeypot. And so, that's the way that's how Fedi Min got started. It was an attempt to build a a CHOMNI mint and then a federated CHOMNI mint and then,
890
01:01:19.990 --> 01:01:28.555
a CHOMNI mint that, one one problem with this is, like, you get these little IOUs. Right? So if if I'm in one mint and you're in another, we have no way to exchange because our IOUs are different
891
01:01:29.095 --> 01:01:30.395
are, you know, just incompatible.
892
01:01:31.494 --> 01:01:33.115
So because, you know, we have different
893
01:01:33.880 --> 01:01:37.020
authorities on on on what is and isn't a a deposit.
894
01:01:37.720 --> 01:01:41.500
Lightning allows you basically like a way to settle between these mints.
895
01:01:41.835 --> 01:01:42.335
So,
896
01:01:42.715 --> 01:01:43.515
so, yeah, you could,
897
01:01:44.075 --> 01:01:44.815
there's some
898
01:01:45.595 --> 01:01:47.375
potentially, like, very, you know,
899
01:01:49.010 --> 01:01:51.910
powerful private it's a potentially very powerful privacy tool,
900
01:01:52.210 --> 01:01:52.710
and,
901
01:01:53.650 --> 01:02:01.925
and, yeah, it's, you know, it's it's it's very early. Like, we just so so the little news item here is we just, merged the ability to receive lightning payments.
902
01:02:02.465 --> 01:02:05.125
We've been able to send for a while, but now we can send and receive.
903
01:02:05.589 --> 01:02:10.089
So that gives you an idea of how early it is. We're just trying to get it sorted to work.
904
01:02:10.710 --> 01:02:25.170
But kind of along the way, like, Fedimint has become very it's it's it's it's really interesting. It's it's it's basically a framework for building federations now. So everything is extremely modular. So right now, there's an unchained wallet, a Chaumy Mint, and then a a Lightning interface.
905
01:02:25.869 --> 01:02:32.535
But in the future, you could build all kinds of things, on top of this. And any sort of app that you want to run-in Bitcoin, if you want to split the trust across
906
01:02:32.915 --> 01:02:35.575
multiple parties, you could do that with Fedimint.
907
01:02:36.355 --> 01:02:42.060
So I think it's, like, an interesting idea that's under explored, so that's why what got me interested in. And then and, yeah.
908
01:02:42.680 --> 01:02:43.660
That's my show.
909
01:02:44.520 --> 01:02:46.140
No. That's that's really cool.
910
01:02:46.495 --> 01:02:48.915
I've always sort of, like, loved the original
911
01:02:49.455 --> 01:02:50.275
sort of,
912
01:02:50.735 --> 01:02:51.235
idea
913
01:02:51.535 --> 01:02:52.035
and
914
01:02:52.895 --> 01:02:59.799
and and concept that, like, Blockstream had way back then about side chains that just took too long to launch
915
01:03:00.900 --> 01:03:03.240
and had maybe the wrong set of trade offs,
916
01:03:03.645 --> 01:03:08.704
But the idea of having a single source of truth, right, where it's Bitcoin,
917
01:03:09.484 --> 01:03:11.665
and then you spin off all the side chains
918
01:03:13.870 --> 01:03:17.250
you know, in a different sort of technology than liquid. Right?
919
01:03:18.190 --> 01:03:29.395
It it's super super powerful and and resolves a lot of problems because, you know, different groups of people may want different set of trade offs, but they probably still want to share the same source of truth.
920
01:03:29.900 --> 01:03:33.200
Right? And Bitcoin provides the best security there is in the game.
921
01:03:34.300 --> 01:03:40.075
It's, it's it's just nice to see more stuff being actively worked on on this space
922
01:03:40.375 --> 01:03:41.675
that is not just liquid.
923
01:03:44.375 --> 01:03:49.590
Yeah. A really cool thing about Fediment is that you could build liquid on top of it pretty easily.
924
01:03:50.450 --> 01:03:52.310
Not easily, but, like, you could do that.
925
01:03:52.930 --> 01:04:00.065
You know, it has, you know, out of the box, it has a consensus algorithm. It has a way of deposits. The deposits work the same way as liquids do.
926
01:04:01.005 --> 01:04:01.505
And,
927
01:04:02.690 --> 01:04:04.550
you know, you you could probably run
928
01:04:04.930 --> 01:04:07.349
some of the some of their code I mean,
929
01:04:07.810 --> 01:04:09.829
Liquid isn't open source, unfortunately.
930
01:04:10.265 --> 01:04:13.565
But, if it was open source, you could just probably run a lot of that code inside of it.
931
01:04:13.865 --> 01:04:17.725
And, you know, to get the confidential transactions, confidential asset stuff,
932
01:04:21.240 --> 01:04:23.020
They're HSM closed. Right?
933
01:04:24.680 --> 01:04:27.260
I don't know. I can't remember how much of their stuff is open.
934
01:04:27.734 --> 01:04:30.714
Is there HSM that is closed, right, not Liquid itself?
935
01:04:31.575 --> 01:04:32.555
I think the functionary,
936
01:04:33.175 --> 01:04:34.714
the what the functionaries run,
937
01:04:35.190 --> 01:04:39.690
you know, the the people that run each federation server, I believe that's closed source as well. Yeah.
938
01:04:40.390 --> 01:04:47.145
Yeah. That's not great. So That that won't that won't get a job. I'm a I'm a fan of it. I think it's I think it's an interesting I think it's a cool thing.
939
01:04:48.485 --> 01:04:51.205
Like, yeah. I I I like the idea of it, and,
940
01:04:51.765 --> 01:04:55.700
and, yeah, I mean, it's not like to say that this is the you know, it doesn't you know, there's there's
941
01:04:56.080 --> 01:04:56.580
still,
942
01:04:56.880 --> 01:04:57.380
like,
943
01:04:58.720 --> 01:05:06.545
there's a lot of useful tools in Bitcoin. This isn't, like, the the be all, end all. Right? There's no Of course. And I think none of them will. All. So reasons to use
944
01:05:07.005 --> 01:05:07.505
yeah.
945
01:05:08.685 --> 01:05:09.745
Yeah. I know. It's,
946
01:05:11.610 --> 01:05:12.350
I I
947
01:05:12.810 --> 01:05:15.710
I I think that when it comes to to networks,
948
01:05:16.970 --> 01:05:17.470
the
949
01:05:18.090 --> 01:05:18.590
the
950
01:05:19.055 --> 01:05:19.555
the
951
01:05:20.015 --> 01:05:21.075
protocol implementation
952
01:05:21.615 --> 01:05:22.835
must be,
953
01:05:23.135 --> 01:05:23.635
like,
954
01:05:24.655 --> 01:05:30.299
open not not GPL, but, like, actually, MIT. Right? It needs to be open in a way
955
01:05:30.839 --> 01:05:34.940
that any party can do whatever he see fits including monetizing it closed.
956
01:05:35.880 --> 01:05:39.405
Right? Yeah. That's how you get networks to expand. Yeah.
957
01:05:40.745 --> 01:05:46.845
But but the the business logic and everything else running on top, that's that's your own business. Right?
958
01:05:47.225 --> 01:05:50.680
So when you build a network that the network implementation
959
01:05:51.220 --> 01:05:56.280
is not open, you're not gonna get buy in. That that's that's a huge, huge problem.
960
01:05:56.694 --> 01:05:58.954
You guys you guys keep mentioning liquid.
961
01:06:00.135 --> 01:06:07.890
I'm curious, Justin, on your opinion here. I mean, when I think about pediments, I almost I don't I don't think of it in comparison to liquid. I think of it more
962
01:06:08.590 --> 01:06:11.250
in comparison to, you know, something like, which
963
01:06:11.870 --> 01:06:13.250
is a completely custodial
964
01:06:15.165 --> 01:06:17.424
non privacy preserving from your custodian
965
01:06:18.045 --> 01:06:19.984
lightning wallet on the phone, which
966
01:06:20.365 --> 01:06:21.744
a lot of people are using.
967
01:06:23.890 --> 01:06:26.230
And your project kind of offers you
968
01:06:26.850 --> 01:06:30.150
a way better trade off balance, which is reduced custodial risk
969
01:06:30.475 --> 01:06:34.975
because it's federated and privacy from the custodians because of the Chongqing e cash.
970
01:06:36.795 --> 01:06:43.520
So so to me, I almost I almost compare it more to, like, those lightning wallets that currently exist rather than something like liquid.
971
01:06:46.220 --> 01:06:53.535
Right. Yeah. So the that that's I agree with that. It's the the end user experience is gonna be like that, but part some of the reasons that make it
972
01:06:54.654 --> 01:07:00.050
some of the ways it achieves these trade offs is that it works kind of like liquid. So, like, the implementation
973
01:07:00.590 --> 01:07:05.855
is similar to liquid. The feature set at the end from the end user is is gonna be different.
974
01:07:06.415 --> 01:07:13.715
Yeah. I mean, that's the whole point of Chami and Minit. Right? Like It's just what I wanna use from Lightning. Like, what I wanna use from Lightning is a custodial
975
01:07:14.500 --> 01:07:20.280
thing where it always works. I want it to never fail, and, I want it to be private.
976
01:07:21.994 --> 01:07:22.655
You know?
977
01:07:23.035 --> 01:07:28.415
That's, like, what I want as an end user. So I think this hopefully, we can find something like that here.
978
01:07:28.955 --> 01:07:29.775
Yeah. No.
979
01:07:30.075 --> 01:07:31.055
The the idea
980
01:07:31.950 --> 01:07:34.050
of not having to to manage
981
01:07:34.510 --> 01:07:35.490
your lightning
982
01:07:36.110 --> 01:07:37.810
node stuff would be great,
983
01:07:38.590 --> 01:07:40.130
with privacy. Right? Because
984
01:07:40.734 --> 01:07:47.714
you know, it is substantially less monetary value so I don't care about the security as much, right?
985
01:07:48.369 --> 01:07:52.390
So it would be nice to not care about babysitting it either.
986
01:07:53.490 --> 01:08:08.960
I really, really hope that we can see something like this resolving the the lightning trade off for Custodio. The other key thing is when you're talking about lightning trade offs is on on the privacy side. Particularly, we're talking about donation the donation use case that we were just talking about,
987
01:08:09.500 --> 01:08:13.040
where you wanna you wanna post something. Maybe you're in an adversarial environment.
988
01:08:14.125 --> 01:08:15.185
All else equal,
989
01:08:15.645 --> 01:08:23.025
receiving privately on lightning is way more difficult than sending privately on lightning. And to that effect, we've actually seen
990
01:08:23.390 --> 01:08:34.775
a lot of privacy minded users. They will they will receive to a custodial lightning wallet, and then they'll send to their own wallet, which is ridiculous and has a lot of foot gun potential, and you're trusting the custodian with that.
991
01:08:35.554 --> 01:08:38.054
So so a Fedimint wallet could provide
992
01:08:38.840 --> 01:08:39.420
a very
993
01:08:40.120 --> 01:08:44.860
easy convenient user experience that preserves privacy on the receive side,
994
01:08:45.480 --> 01:08:46.219
of lightning.
995
01:08:47.445 --> 01:08:49.465
So, Justin, do you see
996
01:08:49.765 --> 01:08:52.505
this specific implementation of Chow Me Mint
997
01:08:53.285 --> 01:08:54.425
being able to
998
01:08:55.730 --> 01:08:57.590
being able to produce, like,
999
01:08:58.210 --> 01:09:00.070
other tokens of types,
1000
01:09:00.690 --> 01:09:01.750
like other other
1001
01:09:02.445 --> 01:09:05.344
things aside from trying to transport,
1002
01:09:06.125 --> 01:09:07.184
essentially, a Bitcoin
1003
01:09:07.804 --> 01:09:09.184
UTXO in a way?
1004
01:09:12.350 --> 01:09:14.050
We'll see. I I hope so.
1005
01:09:14.590 --> 01:09:15.810
I hope we can build
1006
01:09:16.590 --> 01:09:21.704
other things on top of this. Wait. It's always a question. You're gonna be on consensus
1007
01:09:22.165 --> 01:09:24.585
with that mullet next year?
1008
01:09:26.860 --> 01:09:28.560
Well, all bets are off.
1009
01:09:29.580 --> 01:09:38.125
I don't know. My my focus is just actually trying to build it, you know, like, the the the other the other interesting thing about Fediment is that it's extremely high quality
1010
01:09:39.065 --> 01:09:41.980
server code, you know, like, it's it's written,
1011
01:09:42.360 --> 01:09:43.420
in a good language,
1012
01:09:43.800 --> 01:09:44.300
Rust.
1013
01:09:44.680 --> 01:09:45.000
It's,
1014
01:09:45.640 --> 01:09:54.215
the code is very readable. It's very well organized. It's, like, it's it's really good code. Having looked at some of these other projects I won't name, the code quality is higher here.
1015
01:09:54.535 --> 01:09:55.435
And so, like,
1016
01:09:56.695 --> 01:10:14.455
it's it's a high wire act to build, like, a a daemon like this, that is like, that non technical people could run and it just works for a few years, for example. Right? That's great. Like, that's I I think this project could actually achieve that, that level of quality that, you know, it's hard to get there. So that's part of my reasoning here is I think I think it could
1017
01:10:14.755 --> 01:10:15.315
it could,
1018
01:10:16.115 --> 01:10:23.280
do a lot of different things, and I think it the the it's gonna be solved through really, really high quality software, which is is not how
1019
01:10:23.739 --> 01:10:25.840
like, that's the best way to solve things, and
1020
01:10:26.355 --> 01:10:39.730
not a lot of projects solve their problems in that manner. You know, a lot of problem Mhmm. Projects solve their problems by throwing frameworks at problems and throwing all kinds of deployment and all kinds of crazy shit like that, rather than just writing really, really good software that is modular and doesn't crash.
1021
01:10:41.605 --> 01:10:48.505
Well, it's nice to hear that there is good software being written because it needs to be good software for its sake.
1022
01:10:51.140 --> 01:10:53.080
Yeah. Alright. Yeah. We'll see.
1023
01:10:54.020 --> 01:10:56.120
No. It's exciting. I mean, like, I
1024
01:10:56.715 --> 01:11:06.780
I you know, there is this sort of, like, mentality a little bit probably because it came from the SharePoint space where everybody needs to, like, create this sort of solutions. They need to talk to each other.
1025
01:11:07.640 --> 01:11:19.574
And Mhmm. And and I'm of the opposing view on that. I I I think that's stupid. We already have Bitcoin. Bitcoin is the source truth and it's how you settle. Right? On sort of like your your base settlement layer. Right?
1026
01:11:20.900 --> 01:11:25.400
I think we should have had 5 different lightning solutions that don't talk to each other.
1027
01:11:25.780 --> 01:11:28.920
You know, like, there were 50 papers for payment channels.
1028
01:11:29.515 --> 01:11:37.615
So if you divide that by 10, you should have had 5 competing implementations that were trying to do different things and don't necessarily interact with each other.
1029
01:11:37.930 --> 01:11:40.590
I I think we would be in a much better place right now.
1030
01:11:41.290 --> 01:11:41.790
So
1031
01:11:42.090 --> 01:11:47.905
it's it's just nice to see more different things being tried. So props to you. Yeah.
1032
01:11:48.685 --> 01:11:55.425
So if you're if you're talented, give me my final show. If you're a talented Rust developer, that's really what we need. We basically have 4 contributors right now that are consistently,
1033
01:11:56.290 --> 01:12:03.349
working on it. So if you're a talented Rust developer and would like to become 1, send me a DM, pop in the discord listed on our GitHub readme.
1034
01:12:05.445 --> 01:12:05.945
Nice.
1035
01:12:06.405 --> 01:12:09.625
And, do follow Justin on Twitter to get updates about
1036
01:12:17.820 --> 01:12:24.445
you know, that there is this meme that nobody uses liquid. So there is this new project using liquid. So I figured I I bring it up because,
1037
01:12:24.985 --> 01:12:28.685
you know, we all win if all the projects get a lot more use. So
1038
01:12:29.380 --> 01:12:30.520
it's called the liquid
1039
01:12:31.060 --> 01:12:31.540
Fuji
1040
01:12:32.020 --> 01:12:32.920
Fuji money.
1041
01:12:34.099 --> 01:12:36.280
It's essentially a place to borrow
1042
01:12:36.625 --> 01:12:40.485
Bitcoin backed stable coins, you know, synthetic stocks and all that stuff,
1043
01:12:41.264 --> 01:12:43.284
without so it's essentially like a decentralized
1044
01:12:47.300 --> 01:12:49.719
way to borrow with some collateral,
1045
01:12:50.739 --> 01:12:51.719
to do things.
1046
01:12:53.219 --> 01:12:54.600
That that must be
1047
01:12:55.515 --> 01:13:04.920
there must be a demand because there is a few of these platforms that they all seem to have enough users to be able to afford to sponsor podcasts and throw conferences. It's basically
1048
01:13:05.300 --> 01:13:06.760
DeFi and Liquid. Right?
1049
01:13:07.460 --> 01:13:07.960
Yes.
1050
01:13:10.100 --> 01:13:22.390
You know, as much as I'm not a huge fan of that stuff, I I there is a market, and there will always be a market for this stuff. Right? So I rather this stuff being built on top of Bitcoin. That's that's my thinking.
1051
01:13:27.410 --> 01:13:29.990
My only thought is their graphic design is incredible.
1052
01:13:32.295 --> 01:13:32.795
What?
1053
01:13:34.935 --> 01:13:37.435
I was just saying that their graphic design is incredible.
1054
01:13:38.270 --> 01:13:38.770
Nice.
1055
01:13:39.230 --> 01:13:41.970
Well, that's that's good too because, you know, that brings users.
1056
01:13:43.630 --> 01:13:44.130
Yeah.
1057
01:13:44.430 --> 01:13:46.130
And I like the dot money,
1058
01:13:46.430 --> 01:13:50.655
shitcoin TLD. GTLDs are shitcoins, but I have a bunch of them, so
1059
01:13:51.034 --> 01:13:52.255
might as well have fun.
1060
01:13:53.994 --> 01:13:54.494
Alright.
1061
01:13:54.930 --> 01:13:55.430
So,
1062
01:13:56.050 --> 01:13:57.590
the unchained guys,
1063
01:13:58.930 --> 01:14:01.030
have now a new trading desk,
1064
01:14:03.065 --> 01:14:03.565
and,
1065
01:14:04.025 --> 01:14:06.105
you know, they are expanding, and,
1066
01:14:06.825 --> 01:14:12.110
you can what's what's kinda cool about that is for the people who want a more sort of hands,
1067
01:14:13.930 --> 01:14:23.785
hands off approach to their cold storage, these are good people, and and, you know, when when people do transactions and buy Bitcoin, they can put straight into your cold storage
1068
01:14:24.165 --> 01:14:26.825
with the vaults that they they do with you.
1069
01:14:28.219 --> 01:14:29.440
I know a lot of,
1070
01:14:30.699 --> 01:14:35.119
boomers or or family offices or sort of, like, entities
1071
01:14:36.015 --> 01:14:38.595
that may need a third party to handle things
1072
01:14:39.695 --> 01:14:41.635
regardless of how we feel about that.
1073
01:14:42.255 --> 01:14:50.010
So it's just nice to see that there is sort of like this more vertical integrations on on how people handle these things because it does reduce the attack surface a lot.
1074
01:14:50.630 --> 01:14:51.030
So,
1075
01:14:51.909 --> 01:14:53.369
good for them to do this.
1076
01:14:55.575 --> 01:14:56.395
What else?
1077
01:14:56.775 --> 01:14:58.715
Bitcoin has merged on Taproot.
1078
01:15:00.695 --> 01:15:01.995
Justin, do you have opinions?
1079
01:15:02.510 --> 01:15:03.170
I don't.
1080
01:15:05.310 --> 01:15:05.810
No.
1081
01:15:06.350 --> 01:15:07.890
Yeah. It's just just adding
1082
01:15:08.350 --> 01:15:10.130
essentially test factors for taproot.
1083
01:15:10.975 --> 01:15:12.995
I figured it's worth worth mentioning.
1084
01:15:14.975 --> 01:15:15.875
So Kaza,
1085
01:15:17.535 --> 01:15:19.875
Kaza now has an API for people to integrate
1086
01:15:20.230 --> 01:15:21.370
their solution into.
1087
01:15:23.190 --> 01:15:29.690
You know, again, more interesting stuff happening. Like, these products are trying to sort of like find their niche and sort of expand.
1088
01:15:30.995 --> 01:15:34.054
I like the idea of people trying different things.
1089
01:15:36.035 --> 01:15:39.950
What else? I mean, interesting one here. Yeah. Go ahead. Interesting one here was Hoseki.
1090
01:15:40.570 --> 01:15:47.745
Hoseki is a startup, like, just doing proof of reserve. Yes. So it's it would be kind of interesting to see, you know, like, if you could,
1091
01:15:48.364 --> 01:15:49.425
you know, like,
1092
01:15:49.965 --> 01:15:58.720
you got your cost of balance, and then your house equity produces a proof of reserve, and you can go, you know, get a small business loan or something, stuff like that. I think that's kinda cool to see how it's,
1093
01:15:59.360 --> 01:16:02.740
the stack of So little so here's the problem that I have
1094
01:16:03.280 --> 01:16:05.675
is that just traditionally speaking,
1095
01:16:06.695 --> 01:16:08.715
just proving that you have the coins
1096
01:16:09.094 --> 01:16:10.875
probably won't get you alone.
1097
01:16:11.230 --> 01:16:13.170
I think they're gonna wanna hold that collateral.
1098
01:16:13.870 --> 01:16:21.555
Because the problem with Bitcoin as collateral is that Bitcoin is extremely soluble, right? So technically I could just run away with it.
1099
01:16:21.935 --> 01:16:26.430
And the reason why traditionally people use real estate as collateral is because you can't run away with it.
1100
01:16:28.190 --> 01:16:34.945
So Yeah. But then I think I think we're ways off from having Bitcoin collateral sorry, Bitcoin being used as proof of
1101
01:16:35.425 --> 01:16:39.445
reserves, proof of fact that you have money to pay back a loan without
1102
01:16:40.065 --> 01:16:46.260
the counterparty having ways of taking that collateral. First of all, it's 2 different like, it's not all or nothing.
1103
01:16:47.200 --> 01:16:47.700
Yeah.
1104
01:16:48.240 --> 01:16:48.980
I mean,
1105
01:16:49.840 --> 01:16:54.080
you were you were excited about the proof of reserves for that guy's private club, like,
1106
01:16:55.105 --> 01:16:58.305
you know, 15 minutes ago. Wait. Wait. No. No. No. My
1107
01:16:59.105 --> 01:17:13.170
uh-uh. That was collateralized. So the the the bar person holds your SATS card with your collateral on it. Okay. It's a very instrument. The second thing is, first of all, as you can see, I I can see a world at least in the beginning where there's a combination where,
1108
01:17:13.805 --> 01:17:15.505
maybe you see something like Unchained,
1109
01:17:16.525 --> 01:17:19.105
or huddle huddle where where it's a non rehypothecated
1110
01:17:19.565 --> 01:17:20.065
multisig
1111
01:17:21.570 --> 01:17:22.070
custody
1112
01:17:22.449 --> 01:17:24.550
mixed with additional proof of reserves.
1113
01:17:25.250 --> 01:17:29.110
Also, when when you when you do go out for loans, a lot of times,
1114
01:17:30.135 --> 01:17:33.515
they they just wanna see, like, a a level of income or,
1115
01:17:34.375 --> 01:17:40.280
you know, what stocks you hold. They'll ask you to get, like, a brokerage account sign off or you're trying to get a rental somewhere,
1116
01:17:41.060 --> 01:17:52.905
and they want they wanna see if you're actually able to pay your rent for for a year going up. You know who I met. Maybe that landlord maybe that landlord would would see that and be like, okay. Well, you know, this person at this time has proved,
1117
01:17:53.845 --> 01:17:55.705
that they have, you know, a couple $1,000,000
1118
01:17:56.230 --> 01:18:00.010
worth of Bitcoin, obviously, they can afford the $3,000 a month rent.
1119
01:18:00.870 --> 01:18:11.805
I'm gonna approve them for this. The second thing that's really cool about this is because it's, you know, using the native fact that that you have these crypto cryptographically verifiable signatures.
1120
01:18:13.480 --> 01:18:15.099
Once you do that proof of reserves,
1121
01:18:15.560 --> 01:18:29.955
whoever your counterparty is can see if you've moved those assets. Right? And they know in a verifiable way that you've moved your assets. So there are a lot of advantage there as compared to something like a brokerage account saying, oh, like, he owns 200 shares of Apple stock or something like that.
1122
01:18:31.490 --> 01:18:34.150
So so so one one thing I've sort of
1123
01:18:35.170 --> 01:18:38.205
re I realized in the last sort of year, let's put it this way,
1124
01:18:39.005 --> 01:18:42.465
like, looking around the loans, playing around with those Bitcoin backed loans and stuff,
1125
01:18:43.965 --> 01:18:45.825
and talking to a lot of,
1126
01:18:47.095 --> 01:18:47.595
like,
1127
01:18:48.260 --> 01:18:49.400
like, loan brokers,
1128
01:18:50.180 --> 01:18:50.680
essentially.
1129
01:18:51.940 --> 01:18:55.080
And and I finally sort of really internalize
1130
01:18:55.780 --> 01:18:56.280
why
1131
01:18:56.745 --> 01:18:59.565
they like traditional assets is because of the friction.
1132
01:19:00.105 --> 01:19:04.285
Right? If you want to liquidate all your stocks and get the money back,
1133
01:19:04.720 --> 01:19:06.980
it takes a few days at a minimum.
1134
01:19:07.280 --> 01:19:12.260
Right? And some brokerages will take, like, even longer than that, for for your little stuff.
1135
01:19:12.720 --> 01:19:13.220
So,
1136
01:19:14.364 --> 01:19:14.864
and
1137
01:19:15.324 --> 01:19:16.784
and that friction buys
1138
01:19:17.085 --> 01:19:17.585
counterparties
1139
01:19:17.965 --> 01:19:18.465
time
1140
01:19:19.965 --> 01:19:21.344
for trying to get
1141
01:19:23.310 --> 01:19:27.090
trying to get litigation done. And and there is more than that.
1142
01:19:28.830 --> 01:19:39.395
When you liquidate some of those assets that already takes time, they go to your bank account which is also capturable. Right? So it's a whole chain of capturable stuff. That's how the whole legacy world works.
1143
01:19:41.000 --> 01:19:51.415
With with the new Bitcoin world, nothing is capturable and everything is low friction. Right? So technically, it could be in in a different country the next day with all your collateral.
1144
01:19:52.195 --> 01:19:54.535
So the the flight risk is a lot higher.
1145
01:19:57.085 --> 01:19:59.710
So I personally think it could be a little harder
1146
01:20:01.570 --> 01:20:02.070
for
1147
01:20:03.930 --> 01:20:10.365
for for Bitcoin to be used as collateral without having it as a share custody or something. However,
1148
01:20:11.065 --> 01:20:23.130
the idea of being able to prove that you have a certain net worth will be easier for things that are forward going like rent, for example, proving that you have enough cash flow to pay rent.
1149
01:20:24.455 --> 01:20:32.295
That'd be harder for loans, but easier for things like the the the the rent situation. Yeah. I mean, look, everything obviously has trade offs. I think,
1150
01:20:33.620 --> 01:20:34.840
easy proof of reserves,
1151
01:20:35.300 --> 01:20:45.295
in with Bitcoin. Like, look. Bitcoin natively already has proof of reserves. You can just sign a message. Right? That's that functionality has been around forever. Now when you're talking about,
1152
01:20:46.315 --> 01:20:47.615
people that are not necessarily
1153
01:20:48.075 --> 01:20:58.610
very in tune with the Bitcoin world, They wanna see some kind of they want an easy flow. They want a certification process. They want all these other things. Right? And that's kind of where Hoseki comes into play.
1154
01:21:00.005 --> 01:21:01.065
I I think,
1155
01:21:04.005 --> 01:21:07.145
I I I agree with the trade offs you've mentioned,
1156
01:21:08.390 --> 01:21:11.770
but there's also some novel improvements there over
1157
01:21:12.390 --> 01:21:18.565
the the way a lot of this legacy stuff works. Right? The legacy stuff, like, there there's a situation where,
1158
01:21:19.505 --> 01:21:25.285
obviously, like, if if, a brokerage account had, like, an open API or something or API
1159
01:21:26.590 --> 01:21:28.050
agreements with lenders,
1160
01:21:28.670 --> 01:21:30.850
that lender could have real time balance,
1161
01:21:31.630 --> 01:21:34.805
updates and and can tell, like, if you're liquidating your stuff or not.
1162
01:21:35.845 --> 01:21:40.025
That's not really the world we live in. You you basically, like, print out a brokerage statement,
1163
01:21:40.405 --> 01:21:50.670
and you bring it to the bank or you, like, fax to the bank or whatever, and they couldn't literally photoshop it. Yeah. And they put it in a filing cabinet. Right? And send it to them. Right. But Bitcoin Proof of Reserves and
1164
01:21:51.755 --> 01:21:53.215
and a a project like Hoseki,
1165
01:21:54.635 --> 01:21:55.615
could make that
1166
01:21:56.075 --> 01:21:57.615
could make that, you know,
1167
01:21:58.620 --> 01:22:00.960
significantly improved in different ways
1168
01:22:01.340 --> 01:22:07.760
in a very interoperable easy way. Right? Because you you have this interoperable standard that is the Bitcoin blockchain.
1169
01:22:08.935 --> 01:22:11.035
I I do love the idea of anonymizing
1170
01:22:12.375 --> 01:22:14.635
the, essentially, the the
1171
01:22:15.550 --> 01:22:22.929
the the proof of ownership or or or the collateral size. Right? Like, or proof of reserves, really. Anonymizing that is a huge deal as well
1172
01:22:23.365 --> 01:22:28.345
so that he can use this essentially, like, you know, just just this hash or signature
1173
01:22:28.805 --> 01:22:35.980
to to prove something without actually showing the addresses or anything to a third party. That that's it's it's kinda similar to DIDs in a way. Right?
1174
01:22:37.480 --> 01:22:38.940
You have a more transportable,
1175
01:22:40.735 --> 01:22:44.114
anonymized thing that is just is just better for everyone.
1176
01:22:46.255 --> 01:22:55.110
Alright. Oh, here's one that I don't I didn't have time to to look into it or or get the links, but I I wanted to add to the list is Robosats.
1177
01:22:55.935 --> 01:22:58.835
I I've heard this sort of going around a bit.
1178
01:22:59.535 --> 01:23:02.595
It seems like people are into it. I know nothing about it.
1179
01:23:04.230 --> 01:23:06.890
Robosats is a pretty cool project. I'm I'm
1180
01:23:07.750 --> 01:23:09.290
I'm pretty excited about it.
1181
01:23:10.465 --> 01:23:11.364
It's basically
1182
01:23:11.744 --> 01:23:13.045
a, you know, a lightweight,
1183
01:23:13.585 --> 01:23:22.070
p to p exchange for Bitcoin to fiat. Presumably, it could be, you know, Bitcoin to other things as well in the future, but right now it's Bitcoin to fiat.
1184
01:23:22.530 --> 01:23:24.630
It runs all internally in your browser,
1185
01:23:25.250 --> 01:23:31.164
with everything done locally, So the lift is very low. You can use it from mobile. You can use it,
1186
01:23:31.704 --> 01:23:34.605
from desktop. You can use it from an iPad or something.
1187
01:23:35.690 --> 01:23:44.430
And it default it you have to use Tor. It's, it's an onion link. So the whole project runs behind Tor and defaults to Tor.
1188
01:23:44.805 --> 01:23:45.465
So you
1189
01:23:45.844 --> 01:23:46.665
have relatively
1190
01:23:47.125 --> 01:23:50.344
decent privacy guarantees. You have low lift, easy UX,
1191
01:23:51.205 --> 01:24:03.935
pretty convenient, and it's run by NIMS, which you love to see with a project like this. It's actually very easy to monetize because they just collect fees, so it's sustainable. It doesn't have to rely on open source funding, like grant funding or something like that.
1192
01:24:04.555 --> 01:24:10.650
It is an open source project. They did something really cool with so you generate your keys when you first load it up.
1193
01:24:11.130 --> 01:24:12.750
Those keys are used for everything.
1194
01:24:13.690 --> 01:24:14.190
Obviously,
1195
01:24:14.730 --> 01:24:16.989
oh, the whole thing is is lightning only.
1196
01:24:17.530 --> 01:24:23.435
They do have swap out functionality, so you can withdraw to an on chain address, but by default, it's all lightning.
1197
01:24:23.895 --> 01:24:26.074
And they use those keys actually for
1198
01:24:26.830 --> 01:24:31.170
the messaging platform. So you have, like, a chat messaging when you're doing the exchange.
1199
01:24:32.030 --> 01:24:38.175
Every message is not only end to end encrypted, but it's also signed. So when you do have disputes and you have to go to the RoboSats
1200
01:24:38.475 --> 01:24:38.975
mediator,
1201
01:24:39.915 --> 01:24:43.535
it's not like he said, she said screenshots. It's all cryptographically
1202
01:24:43.995 --> 01:24:45.135
signed messages.
1203
01:24:47.020 --> 01:24:48.159
That's pretty cool.
1204
01:24:50.300 --> 01:24:53.045
I I I yeah. I mean, it's just it's compare it to best?
1205
01:24:54.405 --> 01:24:58.824
Yeah. Exactly. It's it's it's trying to solve the same problems that BISK is trying to solve,
1206
01:24:59.925 --> 01:25:07.560
but BISK on their trade off model tried to make, basically make something that is is is more censorship resistant or more regulatory resistant,
1207
01:25:08.580 --> 01:25:11.480
while Robosats is like, we can just do this thing centralized,
1208
01:25:12.015 --> 01:25:14.195
but we'll do it behind NIMs using Tor,
1209
01:25:14.975 --> 01:25:20.355
and and make that lift way way easier so you don't have to run your own node. You don't have to do all these other things.
1210
01:25:20.910 --> 01:25:23.550
So I guess the risk there is just capture. Right? If,
1211
01:25:24.910 --> 01:25:31.995
if, if something that the state doesn't like goes through it, they would just sort of go to the server, see who has the credit cards there, and,
1212
01:25:32.715 --> 01:25:33.775
and go after them.
1213
01:25:34.315 --> 01:25:46.190
But they don't really have any information about the users anyways, so it really is a sort of it's a it's what I like to call a cat and mouse project. It's it's kinda it's I hope they stay around for long enough. I don't like making this example because it, like,
1214
01:25:46.605 --> 01:25:47.905
implies implicit
1215
01:25:49.485 --> 01:26:00.909
criminal activity, which I I don't think this project's about. State may deem anything illegal. No. Yeah. I know. But where I was going with it is, like, the trade off model is similar to most darknet markets is what I would say. Right. Right? Okay.
1216
01:26:02.170 --> 01:26:02.670
Yep.
1217
01:26:04.375 --> 01:26:04.875
Cool.
1218
01:26:06.055 --> 01:26:08.235
I said it all happens in the browser versus,
1219
01:26:08.695 --> 01:26:09.595
Bismar app?
1220
01:26:10.030 --> 01:26:13.570
Probably Yeah. You don't have to install anything. Heavy ass Java.
1221
01:26:14.510 --> 01:26:15.010
Yeah.
1222
01:26:17.045 --> 01:26:20.505
Yeah. I mean, Bisk also has a ton of technical debt. This is all,
1223
01:26:21.685 --> 01:26:24.505
you know, brand new and and built from scratch.
1224
01:26:25.100 --> 01:26:26.160
Well, I mean, also
1225
01:26:26.500 --> 01:26:32.640
is old. Right? There's this and one other project that's currently in stealth, that I'm not allowed to talk about,
1226
01:26:33.035 --> 01:26:35.215
Both trying to tackle the same thing, which
1227
01:26:35.515 --> 01:26:37.135
is p to p Bitcoin trades,
1228
01:26:38.235 --> 01:26:42.720
without KYC, and I I think the future's bright there. I'm I'm pretty excited about it.
1229
01:26:43.840 --> 01:26:49.300
What what's really nice about this is, you know, the state completely failed at taking down dark markets.
1230
01:26:50.065 --> 01:26:53.045
Even being centralized, just 50 pop up after.
1231
01:26:53.585 --> 01:26:54.085
So,
1232
01:26:54.545 --> 01:26:57.765
you know, with with a new way of sort of
1233
01:26:58.330 --> 01:27:01.550
implementing these things based on Bitcoin, based on lightning,
1234
01:27:03.210 --> 01:27:07.470
you know, you'll be you you'll get to a point where they'll just give up. Right? Like,
1235
01:27:08.315 --> 01:27:13.775
it's kinda like, you know, become selective enforcement where if there's a dude smoking pot on the street,
1236
01:27:14.155 --> 01:27:20.570
like most people, like police doesn't give a fuck, and then, you know, they would just pick 1 guy that they don't like to to deal with it.
1237
01:27:21.030 --> 01:27:30.645
Not that there is anything illegal about what people are doing, but just realistically speaking, that's how the states, that all the the state actors behave. Right? They just when they cannot make something captured,
1238
01:27:31.585 --> 01:27:33.364
they will just do selective enforcement.
1239
01:27:35.590 --> 01:27:36.330
100%. Mhmm.
1240
01:27:37.430 --> 01:27:40.330
Even worst if you think about it, but,
1241
01:27:42.955 --> 01:27:48.015
alright. So this is the other part of the show. If you haven't been bored to death yet,
1242
01:27:48.475 --> 01:27:51.375
we're moving on now to the Bitcoin off tech newsletter,
1243
01:27:51.820 --> 01:27:54.480
which is even even even more boring.
1244
01:27:55.340 --> 01:27:58.560
We probably have dozens of listeners still with us at this point.
1245
01:27:59.020 --> 01:27:59.520
Yes.
1246
01:28:00.245 --> 01:28:08.825
I I know there's just one And your wife will probably drop by this point? All all the wives are dropping at this point. Oh, she dropped after the fact that there was no intro.
1247
01:28:12.280 --> 01:28:13.020
All right.
1248
01:28:13.800 --> 01:28:14.300
So,
1249
01:28:14.600 --> 01:28:15.900
so Bitcoin uptech,
1250
01:28:16.679 --> 01:28:22.775
people that don't know is a fantastic sort of, source of, of Bitcoin information, especially about core.
1251
01:28:23.075 --> 01:28:24.775
It has commentary in it.
1252
01:28:25.075 --> 01:28:27.095
I'm a big fan. It's dense
1253
01:28:27.580 --> 01:28:34.800
even though it's still a summary of what actually happens. We're not gonna go through point by point. We're just gonna sort of like pick at it.
1254
01:28:35.895 --> 01:28:38.475
Since they have one newsletter per week,
1255
01:28:39.815 --> 01:28:49.490
so I have the last 3 weeks that we missed sort of like listed here. I just figured we just sort of, like, glance over just because there's a few things that are worth glancing over.
1256
01:28:50.030 --> 01:28:54.755
And if you guys have comments or wanna take tangents on any of this stuff, be my guest.
1257
01:28:56.015 --> 01:28:56.915
Alright. So
1258
01:28:57.375 --> 01:28:58.755
this one is really cool.
1259
01:28:59.614 --> 01:29:00.755
I had added earlier
1260
01:29:01.100 --> 01:29:04.719
on the noteworthy part, but I moved it down because just to compress everything.
1261
01:29:05.340 --> 01:29:07.920
I'm pretty excited about this. So half aggregation
1262
01:29:09.074 --> 01:29:11.735
of BIP 3 40 signatures. So it's essentially,
1263
01:29:12.994 --> 01:29:13.735
half aggregation
1264
01:29:14.434 --> 01:29:15.815
of Schnorr signatures.
1265
01:29:17.150 --> 01:29:20.770
It was Jonas Nick, I think he says Nickler
1266
01:29:21.150 --> 01:29:22.130
on Twitter,
1267
01:29:22.910 --> 01:29:23.410
and
1268
01:29:24.990 --> 01:29:27.655
it's under block streams work.
1269
01:29:29.074 --> 01:29:34.375
This is this is kind of like a a huge deal because it's gonna bring a lot of privacy,
1270
01:29:34.920 --> 01:29:35.579
a lot
1271
01:29:35.880 --> 01:29:37.500
of efficiency in transactions.
1272
01:29:38.360 --> 01:29:39.659
It's still early work.
1273
01:29:41.320 --> 01:29:44.475
And actually the best way to describe it really is it's non interactive
1274
01:29:45.095 --> 01:29:46.635
half aggregation of signatures.
1275
01:29:47.095 --> 01:29:51.115
And one of the parts that I'm most excited about this is the non interactive part.
1276
01:29:53.199 --> 01:29:54.179
So, essentially,
1277
01:29:54.880 --> 01:29:58.500
interactive signatures require all the parties to essentially be,
1278
01:29:59.225 --> 01:30:01.085
for for lack of term, online
1279
01:30:01.625 --> 01:30:03.405
together at the same time,
1280
01:30:03.785 --> 01:30:04.285
resigning
1281
01:30:04.665 --> 01:30:05.725
each other's stuff,
1282
01:30:06.130 --> 01:30:08.790
which creates, like, huge UX problems.
1283
01:30:09.730 --> 01:30:11.910
It creates security issues.
1284
01:30:13.250 --> 01:30:14.630
It makes it for very,
1285
01:30:15.165 --> 01:30:18.545
a very hard thing to do in in in the real world.
1286
01:30:19.245 --> 01:30:27.510
And this solution removes the interactive part. So now each party can do their own bit of the signing by themselves in their own privacy
1287
01:30:27.810 --> 01:30:30.469
of their own, tinfoil hat environment.
1288
01:30:31.845 --> 01:30:36.185
And then the half aggregation part, maybe Justin can have some opinions, but,
1289
01:30:37.045 --> 01:30:40.985
essentially what they're doing here is they're aggregating signatures because Shor is linear.
1290
01:30:42.160 --> 01:30:48.900
So you can just put all the signatures together and make it look like a signal signature, which is not possible with the current
1291
01:30:50.385 --> 01:30:51.445
Bitcoin's back.
1292
01:30:51.824 --> 01:30:52.324
So,
1293
01:30:53.344 --> 01:30:55.605
this this is gonna open a lot of doors,
1294
01:30:55.985 --> 01:30:59.284
for MoonSig and other things like that that still don't have a back.
1295
01:31:00.370 --> 01:31:00.690
And,
1296
01:31:01.330 --> 01:31:02.050
this is,
1297
01:31:02.450 --> 01:31:03.190
it's a
1298
01:31:04.370 --> 01:31:05.750
very, very big,
1299
01:31:06.850 --> 01:31:08.710
improvement to Bitcoin itself,
1300
01:31:09.275 --> 01:31:17.615
even though it's gonna move at Bitcoin glacial pace. So even though we're excited, just don't get too excited to start using anytime soon.
1301
01:31:19.420 --> 01:31:24.320
Opinions, guys? So when you're doing music now, does the signature get bigger? The more
1302
01:31:25.820 --> 01:31:28.159
does this sound like the signature would get gets bigger?
1303
01:31:28.995 --> 01:31:37.095
I don't think it does. I mean, not if they're aggregating them in the Schnorr way. Right? It's supposed to just be, at the end of the day, just a single signature.
1304
01:31:37.475 --> 01:31:40.630
But if I remember right, I haven't been following
1305
01:31:41.170 --> 01:31:43.750
for a little while, like half the size of the original
1306
01:31:44.210 --> 01:31:44.710
signatures
1307
01:31:45.090 --> 01:31:45.980
individually? But,
1308
01:31:47.915 --> 01:31:52.974
I think so. But but the biggest issue is I don't think there is a
1309
01:31:53.275 --> 01:31:54.974
formal mousseg implementation
1310
01:31:55.434 --> 01:31:56.550
or spec yet.
1311
01:31:59.190 --> 01:32:03.929
I think there's just sort of, like, ideas and commentary. There's no actual Moosig.
1312
01:32:09.275 --> 01:32:15.775
I think there's a spec. Like, I know in in the Rust community, there's a a Blockstream has a a a project called
1313
01:32:16.719 --> 01:32:17.219
secp256k1dashzkp.
1314
01:32:19.280 --> 01:32:39.940
It's not Yeah. Like, their testing grounds for stuff. Like, that's where Shmoor showed up a couple years ago, and then, now it moved over. So It's not just, I don't think it's Blockstream. I think that's just the the experimental version of Libs tech. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think there's I think the the the spec is pretty good for music too in my understanding. Like, stuff like frost and roast are still Right. Being,
1315
01:32:40.560 --> 01:32:43.460
that that allows it with with, like, k of n. Right?
1316
01:32:43.855 --> 01:32:50.915
So n of n, I think, is pretty well defined, but k of n is still is still they're still trying to figure out. And that's pretty heavily interactive, which sucks.
1317
01:32:51.534 --> 01:32:53.475
Yes. The the interactive part,
1318
01:32:53.840 --> 01:32:54.900
it's gonna be
1319
01:32:55.559 --> 01:32:56.059
nearly
1320
01:32:56.719 --> 01:32:57.219
impossible
1321
01:32:58.320 --> 01:33:01.780
or it's gonna be essentially server with server talking. Like,
1322
01:33:02.215 --> 01:33:05.035
I I still might not ever work with cold storage.
1323
01:33:05.975 --> 01:33:06.875
Yeah. Like,
1324
01:33:07.495 --> 01:33:17.420
essentially, you're gonna have to be connected in order to achieve the level of interactivity you need. So so that's why I was essentially pretty excited about the noninteractive part of of this solution,
1325
01:33:18.440 --> 01:33:20.220
which which works for
1326
01:33:20.885 --> 01:33:21.864
for cold storage.
1327
01:33:25.765 --> 01:33:32.090
So yeah. So there is that. This is this is dense stuff. So if you wanna, you know, go read more,
1328
01:33:32.790 --> 01:33:35.849
I have lots of links on my notes, and,
1329
01:33:36.469 --> 01:33:40.505
the OpTech guys do have more summary on it, if I remember right.
1330
01:33:41.465 --> 01:33:43.485
So so go read about that.
1331
01:33:44.585 --> 01:33:48.525
So that's that's the notable part that I wanted from the their last
1332
01:33:48.985 --> 01:33:49.485
newsletter.
1333
01:33:50.880 --> 01:33:52.340
Now from the one previous
1334
01:33:52.800 --> 01:33:54.340
to to a 107,
1335
01:33:57.515 --> 01:34:05.455
So they brought up the long term block reward funding, which I wanted to bring up just because the amount of noise on it. I still think that the emissions
1336
01:34:05.995 --> 01:34:06.495
is,
1337
01:34:09.989 --> 01:34:16.730
it it will cause more problems than it's worth. I mean, you could still debate if that's if
1338
01:34:17.385 --> 01:34:21.885
if reward issues are true or not, which I don't think they are, but it is debatable.
1339
01:34:22.824 --> 01:34:24.764
The solution around having
1340
01:34:26.170 --> 01:34:27.070
data emissions
1341
01:34:27.850 --> 01:34:29.230
is is a no go
1342
01:34:29.530 --> 01:34:31.710
because once you open the door,
1343
01:34:32.330 --> 01:34:35.230
who decides how much reward is enough reward?
1344
01:34:35.595 --> 01:34:38.255
And and that just essentially becomes a
1345
01:34:38.875 --> 01:34:40.735
a absolute pit of sorrow.
1346
01:34:42.610 --> 01:34:45.750
So I don't think you'll ever go there. My solution personally is just
1347
01:34:46.050 --> 01:34:50.310
decrease the block size, make scarcity higher on block space and problem resolve,
1348
01:34:50.835 --> 01:34:52.614
and we get more decentralization
1349
01:34:52.995 --> 01:34:53.975
with that too.
1350
01:34:55.875 --> 01:35:00.080
Guys, if you have an opinion on on on Telecommunications, now is the time.
1351
01:35:01.280 --> 01:35:03.440
I mean, I just think I think that it's it's,
1352
01:35:04.000 --> 01:35:06.020
it's just not on the table
1353
01:35:06.400 --> 01:35:07.140
as a
1354
01:35:07.585 --> 01:35:19.400
possible thing unless, like, the system has basically failed. You know, like, if Bitcoin just can't is getting massive, 200 block reorgs, and until stuff like that happens, I don't think I don't I don't see how this could ever get
1355
01:35:20.020 --> 01:35:27.845
it how this would ever really happen, You know? Yeah. It's it's it's it's mental masturbation to talk about it so early.
1356
01:35:28.385 --> 01:35:32.930
And then besides that, there's really no reason for any kind of debate because
1357
01:35:33.469 --> 01:35:36.370
anyone can fork Bitcoin whenever the fuck they wanna fork Bitcoin.
1358
01:35:37.070 --> 01:35:44.685
And if you wanna fork and a tail emission, you can fucking do it, and we'll see how the market responds to that. And and this idea that
1359
01:35:45.065 --> 01:35:51.040
Bitcoin adds a tail emission is, in my point of is in my perspective is is the wrong framing.
1360
01:35:51.420 --> 01:35:52.320
Because if
1361
01:35:52.699 --> 01:35:58.320
there is a fork of Bitcoin with a tail emission if there's a fork of Bitcoin without a finite amount of Bitcoin,
1362
01:35:58.705 --> 01:36:08.610
there will always be the other chain, the existing chain, that doesn't have that in it. And there's pretty much zero situation that I could see
1363
01:36:08.989 --> 01:36:14.690
where where, you know, that that original chain doesn't, you know, win that fork war,
1364
01:36:15.310 --> 01:36:15.810
but
1365
01:36:16.735 --> 01:36:18.434
there's even less chance
1366
01:36:18.735 --> 01:36:32.150
that there would be, like, a complete wipeout and you just wouldn't have that other chain in addition to it. Someone would end up changing their algo. Some you know, their hashing algo or something like that. But I I would say that I actually if we're gonna keep talking about this,
1367
01:36:32.645 --> 01:36:40.905
I would love to see, some, you know, really, really wealthy backers of this tail emission idea so we could get a nice sizable
1368
01:36:41.630 --> 01:36:44.290
sizable dividend on that fork when it happens?
1369
01:36:45.230 --> 01:36:50.210
Yeah. I I mean, I I am not opposed to airdrops. I think airdrops are healthy.
1370
01:36:50.735 --> 01:36:52.835
It's a I see it as a Bitcoin dividend.
1371
01:36:54.335 --> 01:36:54.815
So,
1372
01:36:55.215 --> 01:36:57.155
so I I am I totally
1373
01:36:57.614 --> 01:36:59.315
in favor of this.
1374
01:37:00.440 --> 01:37:05.980
I just have a feeling that, the dividend will be so low that it won't be worth our while because,
1375
01:37:06.360 --> 01:37:10.485
you know, ideally, you move the funds from your keys before you do that, so,
1376
01:37:11.125 --> 01:37:13.065
not not not worth the while.
1377
01:37:14.205 --> 01:37:16.264
You know, my dear friend Peter Todd
1378
01:37:17.160 --> 01:37:20.460
is probably bored at this moment, so he is championing,
1379
01:37:20.840 --> 01:37:21.580
daily missions.
1380
01:37:22.680 --> 01:37:26.380
Peter, I think you should go maybe climb a taller mountain.
1381
01:37:28.344 --> 01:37:29.405
Love you very much.
1382
01:37:32.425 --> 01:37:34.364
Now moving on to
1383
01:37:36.970 --> 01:37:39.710
okay. So there is a new regression tests,
1384
01:37:40.570 --> 01:37:44.270
for RPC. I think these are related to Taproot.
1385
01:37:46.025 --> 01:37:47.645
Oh, it's to help l two protocol
1386
01:37:48.185 --> 01:37:49.245
and other applications
1387
01:37:50.345 --> 01:37:52.445
who wanna use package relay on core.
1388
01:37:56.150 --> 01:37:56.550
See
1389
01:37:57.030 --> 01:38:00.410
so here's one thing I don't like. I think we brought up on the last episode.
1390
01:38:01.034 --> 01:38:01.534
Drama.
1391
01:38:05.434 --> 01:38:12.489
The the idea of making RBF not default. RBF should be default because double spend is possible in Bitcoin by default.
1392
01:38:13.190 --> 01:38:19.375
I so I like I like RBF to be the default because it's essentially just formalizing something you can do
1393
01:38:20.155 --> 01:38:22.175
regardless if people agree with you or not.
1394
01:38:25.970 --> 01:38:29.190
I mean, the only reason you wouldn't want that is if is if you want, like,
1395
01:38:29.570 --> 01:38:32.550
the standardness rules to allow you to do
1396
01:38:33.675 --> 01:38:34.655
0 conf transactions
1397
01:38:35.114 --> 01:38:36.335
easier. Right? That's
1398
01:38:37.034 --> 01:38:38.235
Yeah. But basically the only
1399
01:38:39.275 --> 01:38:44.869
It doesn't matter. It can suit people. Yeah. Exactly. That's a really bad It's a problem. That's a that's a really bad reason.
1400
01:38:45.969 --> 01:38:57.125
Yeah. Like, it it it You shouldn't you shouldn't have the relay nodes of the network protecting your 0Conf transaction. Let's just just using it wrong. The way I like to say it is 0Conf is not Bitcoin because it's not your Bitcoin yet.
1401
01:38:59.020 --> 01:39:08.560
Yeah. I actually heard Wiz It's almost like sorry. Go ahead. I heard Wiz put it in an interesting way. I mean, you know, Wiz runs, the most popular mempool in the world.
1402
01:39:10.415 --> 01:39:12.195
He calls he calls,
1403
01:39:12.815 --> 01:39:19.500
transactions that are in the mempool, like, you know, 0 confirmation transactions. He calls that layer 0, and then you hit layer 1,
1404
01:39:20.200 --> 01:39:21.260
once they're confirmed,
1405
01:39:21.800 --> 01:39:23.660
which I thought was interesting framing.
1406
01:39:24.200 --> 01:39:27.420
Yeah. The the the RBF and 0 Conf discussions
1407
01:39:28.074 --> 01:39:29.695
is essentially like Sheikoiner
1408
01:39:30.074 --> 01:39:31.934
mindset sipping through Bitcoin,
1409
01:39:32.795 --> 01:39:35.375
which does sipping through lightning a little too much.
1410
01:39:37.820 --> 01:39:41.360
It's like, sorry, like, the whole point of Bitcoin is finality.
1411
01:39:41.900 --> 01:39:46.160
Pre finality is not your fucking coins, so don't do anything with it.
1412
01:39:48.855 --> 01:39:49.355
Anyways,
1413
01:39:49.695 --> 01:39:50.195
it
1414
01:39:50.534 --> 01:39:54.554
it is a topic that annoys me because it's essentially rehashing the whole
1415
01:39:55.200 --> 01:39:58.340
b cash bullshit all over again for different reasons.
1416
01:40:02.245 --> 01:40:05.705
We're just it's always gonna be eternal September with all this shit.
1417
01:40:06.245 --> 01:40:08.995
Yeah. No. It it's yeah. You never will be with
1418
01:40:09.360 --> 01:40:16.660
block size. I don't know if you've noticed, like, on on Twitter lately, I just I barely even tweet anymore. I just retweet stuff from years ago.
1419
01:40:17.605 --> 01:40:23.065
Because did you you mostly just you can mostly just go back, and you have the response already ready over there.
1420
01:40:23.844 --> 01:40:24.985
I need a bot
1421
01:40:25.390 --> 01:40:26.130
that essentially
1422
01:40:26.510 --> 01:40:27.010
searches
1423
01:40:27.390 --> 01:40:35.965
for the the the trending tweets of the day and then go finds tweets of mine from, say, 7 to 8 years ago minimum.
1424
01:40:36.745 --> 01:40:40.685
And it finds the correct response for that and it posts as a response
1425
01:40:42.040 --> 01:40:44.540
onto those tweets. I'd pay sats for that.
1426
01:40:45.400 --> 01:40:46.540
Yeah. Right? Bounty.
1427
01:40:47.639 --> 01:40:51.065
Where's okay. Fine. We're gonna put another bounty on bitcoin bounties.org.
1428
01:40:56.485 --> 01:40:56.985
Okay.
1429
01:40:57.980 --> 01:40:58.480
So
1430
01:40:59.580 --> 01:41:00.700
next is,
1431
01:41:01.100 --> 01:41:01.740
oh, so,
1432
01:41:02.380 --> 01:41:04.400
we have a a merge,
1433
01:41:04.940 --> 01:41:05.760
for adding
1434
01:41:07.735 --> 01:41:08.235
Taproot,
1435
01:41:09.095 --> 01:41:12.475
additional fields on PSPT, so PSPT evolving.
1436
01:41:14.590 --> 01:41:15.090
BDK
1437
01:41:16.510 --> 01:41:17.810
is setting up
1438
01:41:18.750 --> 01:41:21.330
in lock time of new transactions now.
1439
01:41:22.315 --> 01:41:23.695
Okay, so is that
1440
01:41:24.555 --> 01:41:26.895
a Centifree sniping solution. Okay,
1441
01:41:27.435 --> 01:41:27.935
yeah.
1442
01:41:28.929 --> 01:41:30.630
You guys have any opinions on that?
1443
01:41:31.969 --> 01:41:33.270
It's a good thing to do.
1444
01:41:33.809 --> 01:41:40.275
Yeah. I mean, it just it just basically says this is the like, if the current block time is act or block height is x, it just says, hey. I'm not allowed
1445
01:41:40.735 --> 01:41:43.235
to be mined in any block before x
1446
01:41:43.614 --> 01:41:48.230
just so just to discourage a minor from, like, doing an intentional reorg to to get some
1447
01:41:48.850 --> 01:41:52.310
some more fees, like, which is a valid like, this is kind of a valid
1448
01:41:52.610 --> 01:41:54.930
complaint in, like, a low fee environment as if if,
1449
01:41:55.845 --> 01:41:57.065
minor Yeah. Incentivized
1450
01:41:57.445 --> 01:41:58.585
to reorg a little.
1451
01:41:59.445 --> 01:42:02.745
Right. But they could still mine it if they want to.
1452
01:42:03.125 --> 01:42:04.985
I don't know. It's one of those things.
1453
01:42:06.110 --> 01:42:09.250
It's like one of those things. It's like, okay. Yeah. It's
1454
01:42:09.790 --> 01:42:13.330
cute, but I don't think it will do anything network wide.
1455
01:42:14.635 --> 01:42:17.055
Maybe if you became the center for most wallets.
1456
01:42:19.595 --> 01:42:29.560
I mean, I guess it's It's it's it's it's if hash isn't attempting to extend the chain, if it's doing other things, that's Yeah. The the better framing would probably be fee sniping resistant. Right?
1457
01:42:30.075 --> 01:42:33.775
Because obviously after that block, you could still do fee sniping.
1458
01:42:34.875 --> 01:42:36.815
Yep. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.
1459
01:42:38.555 --> 01:42:39.055
Alright.
1460
01:42:41.070 --> 01:42:44.450
The 206 which was the previous to the previous to the previous.
1461
01:42:45.070 --> 01:42:48.370
No. The previous to the previous. That's just 2 previous of previous.
1462
01:42:49.815 --> 01:42:55.675
Okay. What is the largest, multisig quorum currently possible? Andrew Chow, did some work on that.
1463
01:42:56.090 --> 01:43:03.150
If I remember right, for p 2 sh is 12 out of 12. At least we managed to do that on quinquaint.com
1464
01:43:03.850 --> 01:43:04.350
way
1465
01:43:04.650 --> 01:43:05.710
back in the day.
1466
01:43:06.395 --> 01:43:07.695
I don't know what is,
1467
01:43:09.275 --> 01:43:10.655
what is possible now.
1468
01:43:11.435 --> 01:43:14.095
It says 20, but I've never tried it. In my head,
1469
01:43:14.510 --> 01:43:16.610
doesn't Electrum allow you to do 16?
1470
01:43:18.990 --> 01:43:21.890
Yeah. But I I don't think with 16 out of 16.
1471
01:43:23.355 --> 01:43:25.135
You wouldn't support that many signatures.
1472
01:43:25.515 --> 01:43:33.840
So I think we're essentially what we're gonna write because see, I think the the main problem is is an implementation problem, not a network problem.
1473
01:43:37.100 --> 01:43:39.680
So I think, essentially, the the the bottleneck
1474
01:43:39.985 --> 01:43:44.405
is always gonna be just the transaction size that will fit the network. That's it. Yeah.
1475
01:43:45.505 --> 01:43:47.525
Are you're essentially gonna fill a whole block.
1476
01:43:51.220 --> 01:43:53.000
And CodeCard can sign that now.
1477
01:43:53.300 --> 01:44:03.315
There's something about how objects it works. There's something about how objects it works that Right. I think it gets it slows down. If it gets bigger, it has it's, like, kinda combinatorial or something.
1478
01:44:03.935 --> 01:44:06.610
Well, the the issue with with,
1479
01:44:07.389 --> 01:44:12.929
pre taproot is that it's it's quadratic. Right? So the size of the transaction is exponential.
1480
01:44:13.995 --> 01:44:14.495
Yeah.
1481
01:44:15.115 --> 01:44:18.415
So it's very, very easy to get big with multisig,
1482
01:44:19.195 --> 01:44:20.655
but Shmoor, it won't matter.
1483
01:44:21.355 --> 01:44:22.175
You can make
1484
01:44:22.570 --> 01:44:35.085
essentially any size. You you can have, like, you know, a 100 signers, and it's still gonna be a single signer. This will be this will be one of the first really interesting things for, like, the Musig Frost Yes. Real type things is, you know, like,
1485
01:44:35.565 --> 01:44:37.585
liquid could do a 100 functionaries,
1486
01:44:37.965 --> 01:44:41.230
for example. Now it's it's basically the rate limited by how many multisig
1487
01:44:41.770 --> 01:44:43.070
people can be in a multisig.
1488
01:44:43.690 --> 01:44:50.825
So, you know, that would be kind of an interesting trust model for, you know, if you had, like, a 100 you know, a whole a whole bunch of them, a whole bunch of people. Harder to,
1489
01:44:51.705 --> 01:44:53.165
organize some sort of a
1490
01:44:53.785 --> 01:45:00.860
a defection. So that's it, you know. Well, I mean, especially if you have a contract for, say, your collateralized loan, whatever
1491
01:45:01.239 --> 01:45:16.315
thing you're doing, like, it would be very interesting to have a lot more players at different weights, on that. Yeah. Exactly. I mean, these things will be best for the stuff that's, like, online, you know, like, for cold storage type things, it sucks because it's so interactive. But for anything that's any any, like, online multisigs,
1492
01:45:16.690 --> 01:45:19.190
like, this will this this stuff will be really interesting.
1493
01:45:21.330 --> 01:45:23.429
I think we managed to bore Matt.
1494
01:45:23.905 --> 01:45:24.805
This is success.
1495
01:45:25.425 --> 01:45:32.645
I can see him sitting, talking to somebody else in the studio. No. We have like, Bitcoin Park is vibes are high right now.
1496
01:45:33.550 --> 01:45:41.135
So I have multiple people in the studio with me. I noticed earlier you said, Matt, you're muted. That was intentional because I was talking to people in the studio.
1497
01:45:42.255 --> 01:45:44.034
But I'm also I'm also
1498
01:45:44.335 --> 01:45:51.074
a crazy person. So right after this 2 hour rip, I'm gonna be doing another 2 hour rip on Ciel Dispatch. So,
1499
01:45:51.920 --> 01:46:02.994
a couple of those a couple of those guests in here a couple of those guests are in here, and they can't hear. 1 of them can hear because he's got headphones on, but the other one can't hear. And he's just sitting there just wondering
1500
01:46:03.454 --> 01:46:07.795
what the fuck NVK is talking about for so long. So I'm just trying to keep him updated on timing.
1501
01:46:09.400 --> 01:46:12.780
You know, Matt's goal is to be in every podcast
1502
01:46:13.240 --> 01:46:14.540
episode ever
1503
01:46:15.160 --> 01:46:16.620
Yeah. Of all Bitcoin.
1504
01:46:17.595 --> 01:46:22.175
Not not every not everyone in it. Only the good ones. Only the good ones.
1505
01:46:22.955 --> 01:46:24.175
But they're all good ones.
1506
01:46:24.949 --> 01:46:27.849
Dude, there's a lot of bad ones. Open your fucking eyes.
1507
01:46:29.030 --> 01:46:31.929
No. I don't listen to the bad ones. Probably that's why.
1508
01:46:33.715 --> 01:46:35.974
Okay. We're almost done with the show guys.
1509
01:46:36.755 --> 01:46:42.600
Now, we're just gonna list a few Bitcoin events here because, it would be nice for them to be to get some notability.
1510
01:46:43.140 --> 01:46:47.080
So there is the ABDC Bitcoin Design Meetup in Austin.
1511
01:46:47.460 --> 01:46:49.240
I I don't know if it already happened.
1512
01:46:50.165 --> 01:46:52.905
No. It's gonna happen. It's a reoccurring thing.
1513
01:46:53.525 --> 01:46:59.830
It's a reoccurring. That's why I wanted to bring up because we're designers. Right? Our producer on our other podcast, Robert Hall recap,
1514
01:47:00.850 --> 01:47:01.830
Carr is
1515
01:47:03.410 --> 01:47:06.395
helping spearhead this thing with Paul Miller, future Paul,
1516
01:47:07.755 --> 01:47:10.974
and they're really excited about it. I'm pretty excited about the concept.
1517
01:47:12.540 --> 01:47:14.480
Basically trying to, you know,
1518
01:47:15.020 --> 01:47:20.400
build the same type of communities that we're seeing in Austin with the dev space, but in the design space instead.
1519
01:47:21.185 --> 01:47:22.165
One funny thing,
1520
01:47:22.665 --> 01:47:26.565
you know, Carr became producer of of Tales from the Crypt,
1521
01:47:27.185 --> 01:47:28.245
which is blatant,
1522
01:47:28.940 --> 01:47:36.719
trademark infringement on the HBO show. So, like, every single car project now is just all play off. Like,
1523
01:47:37.020 --> 01:47:37.520
ABDC
1524
01:47:38.455 --> 01:47:40.875
is even the logo looks like the band.
1525
01:47:41.415 --> 01:47:42.875
He has, like, Pleb Broadcasting
1526
01:47:43.255 --> 01:47:50.530
Service is one of them. Stacker News Live with initials SNL. Like, so he he got completely inspired by Marty for the wrong reasons.
1527
01:47:50.909 --> 01:48:02.695
And I just hope I hope he'd I hope he sees a lot of success with it, but I hope that doesn't blow back on him on the trademark side. I love that dude, though. My car is great. His satire is okay. Yeah. He he'll be fine.
1528
01:48:04.250 --> 01:48:12.030
Oh, so Bitcoin Magazine has the Bitcoin conference in Amsterdam. Maybe Matt knows the dates. I don't know the dates yet, but I I think I might go.
1529
01:48:12.575 --> 01:48:14.195
They're the same dates as TabConf,
1530
01:48:14.575 --> 01:48:15.555
which is unfortunate.
1531
01:48:16.575 --> 01:48:21.155
But I do think they're, you know, different events. One's in Europe, one's in
1532
01:48:21.860 --> 01:48:22.679
Is that Meet
1533
01:48:23.260 --> 01:48:23.760
America?
1534
01:48:24.500 --> 01:48:25.639
It's it's October.
1535
01:48:26.420 --> 01:48:27.539
I wanna say
1536
01:48:28.659 --> 01:48:32.605
I'm gonna get shit for this, if I get the dates wrong. I think it's October
1537
01:48:33.225 --> 01:48:35.804
12 through 14th is what I wanna say.
1538
01:48:36.265 --> 01:48:39.485
Ugh. I'm probably not going. Man, why don't they listen.
1539
01:48:39.830 --> 01:48:40.570
Conference organizers.
1540
01:48:41.349 --> 01:48:41.849
Okay?
1541
01:48:42.550 --> 01:48:44.330
Listen. Do your conferences
1542
01:48:44.869 --> 01:48:46.250
in the North American
1543
01:48:46.949 --> 01:48:47.449
winter.
1544
01:48:48.965 --> 01:48:49.465
So
1545
01:48:50.085 --> 01:48:50.585
essentially
1546
01:48:50.965 --> 01:48:52.985
starting post my duck hunt trip,
1547
01:48:53.925 --> 01:48:55.704
so after mid
1548
01:48:56.164 --> 01:48:56.664
November,
1549
01:48:58.150 --> 01:48:59.449
all the way to,
1550
01:49:00.710 --> 01:49:01.370
say, March.
1551
01:49:01.910 --> 01:49:03.850
Essentially, while the ice is frozen,
1552
01:49:05.425 --> 01:49:07.605
it's it's it's good timing for me.
1553
01:49:07.985 --> 01:49:09.685
What were your dates that you wanted?
NOTE
Transcription provided by Podhome.fm
Created: 3/17/2024 4:24:43 PM
Duration: 7154.756
Channels: 1
1
00:00:01.199 --> 00:00:01.699
2
00:00:02.480 --> 00:00:04.180
Welcome to the Bitcoin review,
3
00:00:04.560 --> 00:00:05.859
where we'll boringly
4
00:00:06.480 --> 00:00:10.325
go over the majority of the project's news and updates,
5
00:00:10.705 --> 00:00:14.725
software, events, and everything you can think of that we want to talk about.
6
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So do take offense if we don't make don't mention your project,
7
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or do me a favor and actually contact me to let me know about your news, cause otherwise I don't have a crystal ball. Anyways, thanks everybody for coming here. Today we have Justin Moon
8
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and Matt Hodele
9
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as guests.
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Yo yo yo.
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12
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13
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So, we have the list. Why don't we just go right into it? Because the whole point of this spot is to have the least amount of opinions.
14
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15
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you know, I joined you for the the first episode of this rep,
16
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and you told me you were just using me using me for engagement, and you're gonna get new guests every week. That's right. And you asked me to come on for week 2. So where do we stand on that?
17
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18
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But then don't worry, you fizzle up.
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20
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21
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that by having Justin here, and maybe maybe if Justin had his
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wonderful mullet on screen, maybe we would be able to replace you, but I don't think we're full on ready.
23
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24
00:01:31.850 --> 00:01:33.230
k. Not so fast.
25
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26
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and I very much
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appreciate their opinions about the project so they'll they'll be very helpful with us going through this this list.
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And with that,
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00:01:49.680 --> 00:01:52.580
let's start with the software releases and project updates.
30
00:01:53.600 --> 00:01:55.540
So BTC pay server 1.6,
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00:01:57.375 --> 00:02:03.555
They apparently had a reasonably sized vulnerability that was disclosed via CVE, which is the correct way to make
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00:02:04.450 --> 00:02:05.590
responsible disclosures.
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00:02:05.890 --> 00:02:07.750
Note that people making disclosures
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CVEs.
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00:02:10.290 --> 00:02:12.150
They have a new lightning dashboard,
36
00:02:12.805 --> 00:02:14.265
They have invoice receipts.
37
00:02:14.725 --> 00:02:17.065
They have automatic emails for every event,
38
00:02:18.245 --> 00:02:19.225
l n URLs,
39
00:02:20.300 --> 00:02:25.840
and Joomla integration. Oh, also NFC support plug ins. So maybe that's helpful to me.
40
00:02:26.140 --> 00:02:28.720
So do you guys have any comments about, BTC
41
00:02:29.375 --> 00:02:30.754
Pay server re release?
42
00:02:32.655 --> 00:02:39.120
43
00:02:40.000 --> 00:02:42.019
Oh, great. So what is it? 1.6.1,
44
00:02:42.640 --> 00:02:44.099
I think, is the correct one.
45
00:02:44.480 --> 00:02:47.140
46
00:02:47.495 --> 00:02:50.475
47
00:02:51.415 --> 00:02:59.820
they were very vague about the vulnerability intentionally, and they said they're gonna release what the actual vulnerability that this release patch is in 6 to 12 months.
48
00:03:00.360 --> 00:03:03.900
But if you if you read the blog post, it seems like it's pretty severe. So,
49
00:03:04.495 --> 00:03:05.555
if you're calling BTCPay,
50
00:03:05.935 --> 00:03:12.995
you should definitely you should definitely update ASAP as, like, the number one takeaway here. And one thing I would note is if you're using Nodle,
51
00:03:13.800 --> 00:03:17.500
you may have noticed that they haven't updated BTCPay in a long time.
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00:03:18.200 --> 00:03:19.340
First of all, is
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intending
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to
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00:03:22.235 --> 00:03:29.535
there was some, like, infrastructure that he needed to clean up on the back end before he could continue updating BTCPay, so he's doing that. And second of all,
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BTCPay on Nodal hasn't been updated in such a long time that it's not vulnerable to this vulnerability,
57
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the CFE.
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00:03:37.525 --> 00:03:38.665
59
00:03:39.125 --> 00:03:45.305
motto is don't update anything unless you really want the new thing that the the update has
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00:03:45.750 --> 00:03:49.610
or it's found out that your specific version is at risk.
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Not updating is great. I must be running at least 3 or 4 OSX versions behind.
62
00:03:58.065 --> 00:04:00.645
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00:04:00.945 --> 00:04:08.370
power user. I was a BTC pay power user in the early days and then haven't used it much recently, but the UI is way better than it used to be.
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65
00:04:10.225 --> 00:04:12.565
66
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67
00:04:16.145 --> 00:04:18.005
so I have, Stripe as
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00:04:18.540 --> 00:04:20.320
our, Kakabuks payment processor.
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And,
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you know, Stripe is is is incredible. Right? I mean, like beautiful UI, incredible API. Those guys are pros.
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And, and it's nice to see
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BTCPay, the open version, right, of something like that to start to look like very professional. It's it's,
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it's very nice for merchants that are not solely technical.
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Do you know anything about the NFC support?
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No. How would that look?
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78
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So, you know, none of us has time to actually go through, like, all the minutiae on it. We're just gonna comment on the things we hear. It's literally a it's literally a podcast about updates, and then Enrique starts it off with telling you that he doesn't update anything.
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81
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as far as NFC goes, I mean, it'd be cool to see NFC in as many things as possible. Obviously,
82
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83
00:05:42.210 --> 00:05:43.990
84
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Yeah. It's probably for payments at terminals. Yeah. So I I that's right.
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86
00:05:51.955 --> 00:05:55.895
if you have a browser compatible NFC phone, currently only Chrome on Android,
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00:05:56.515 --> 00:06:08.229
you can use our point of sale to make NFC payments. So this would be like, you can receive you can receive payments using this in the browser, which is pretty cool. Yeah. That's that's that's amazing. That's how
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00:06:08.965 --> 00:06:12.425
89
00:06:12.965 --> 00:06:17.305
so it's just lip frogging from chip and pin to phone NFC for credit cards.
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I think you're gonna see a lot of that in the in the market.
91
00:06:22.120 --> 00:06:22.940
Alright. One
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00:06:23.400 --> 00:06:26.700
93
00:06:27.435 --> 00:06:30.254
In terms of, like, key security on the receiving side,
94
00:06:31.354 --> 00:06:35.694
the on chain, it's really cool the way BTCPay has it set up, so you never
95
00:06:36.120 --> 00:06:38.060
have to actually keep your keys hot.
96
00:06:38.760 --> 00:06:42.460
You can just keep your keys on a on a cold card or some other kind of cold storage,
97
00:06:43.080 --> 00:06:48.715
and you just upload the XPUB. So you're able to receive to new addresses, but your keys aren't actually on
98
00:06:49.335 --> 00:06:56.220
on the server. Yeah. It's always been like that. Right? Lightning, it's different. Yeah. With Lightning, it's different. I just I'm thinking from, like, the receiving side
99
00:06:56.520 --> 00:06:59.340
Right. About NFC support. You don't really need
100
00:06:59.800 --> 00:07:00.300
that.
101
00:07:00.975 --> 00:07:02.675
102
00:07:03.055 --> 00:07:04.675
withdraw for for payouts
103
00:07:04.975 --> 00:07:06.275
refunds is gonna work?
104
00:07:06.575 --> 00:07:11.780
So you just do a, like, essentially a request payment back to the other counterparty?
105
00:07:13.040 --> 00:07:19.235
106
00:07:19.695 --> 00:07:20.514
107
00:07:20.975 --> 00:07:25.235
that's that's the the big sort of drawback from a merchant perspective
108
00:07:25.720 --> 00:07:28.860
when it comes to Bitcoin and Lightning is that there there is no pool
109
00:07:29.480 --> 00:07:29.980
version,
110
00:07:30.600 --> 00:07:37.245
like credit cards do. So for for subscriptions and things like that it's tricky. You know, consumers won't pay unless you take the money from them.
111
00:07:39.145 --> 00:07:41.005
So, yeah. We'll we'll see how that develop.
112
00:07:43.074 --> 00:07:44.180
Alright. So,
113
00:07:45.040 --> 00:07:48.020
the reason why I brought up code card mark for 505,
114
00:07:49.600 --> 00:07:52.580
it didn't actually come out yet, it's about to.
115
00:07:53.325 --> 00:07:54.065
It's because
116
00:07:54.445 --> 00:07:56.705
we are proposing a BIP85
117
00:07:57.325 --> 00:07:58.385
password extension.
118
00:07:59.005 --> 00:08:00.705
So we want to extend the BIP85
119
00:08:01.380 --> 00:08:02.920
to support password generations
120
00:08:03.460 --> 00:08:05.080
as well. So these are deterministically
121
00:08:05.460 --> 00:08:05.960
generated
122
00:08:06.260 --> 00:08:06.760
passwords.
123
00:08:08.580 --> 00:08:10.600
What's cool about that is,
124
00:08:11.324 --> 00:08:13.664
say you have a spare code card that you use for this,
125
00:08:13.965 --> 00:08:20.944
you can actually plug it in the USB and make code card emulate a keyboard. So it pushes the password to the input field.
126
00:08:21.270 --> 00:08:24.490
Now are you gonna use this for Gmail? No. That's dumb.
127
00:08:25.030 --> 00:08:29.185
When you're gonna use this is for, like, passwords that really matter. Say your SSH,
128
00:08:30.205 --> 00:08:31.264
encryption password,
129
00:08:32.204 --> 00:08:34.545
you know, your Cloudflare password,
130
00:08:35.810 --> 00:08:38.470
like things that you're a little bit more concerned,
131
00:08:39.570 --> 00:08:48.995
that you don't necessarily want a computer password manager to have, but you don't wanna have a bunch of backups. So imagine just having like a single private key that rules all your passwords
132
00:08:49.455 --> 00:08:50.755
for this kind of stuff.
133
00:08:51.215 --> 00:08:53.075
I think it would be, very useful.
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00:08:54.710 --> 00:08:54.870
So,
135
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maybe we will send an email to the mailing list soon,
136
00:08:59.990 --> 00:09:03.130
sort of asking for reviews or or, suggestions.
137
00:09:04.905 --> 00:09:06.125
So that's that.
138
00:09:08.345 --> 00:09:12.445
Alright. So Electron private server, that's a Chris Peltier project.
139
00:09:14.029 --> 00:09:19.009
It was a small update. Essentially just, he just fixed a few dependencies there,
140
00:09:19.709 --> 00:09:20.915
with the new core.
141
00:09:21.875 --> 00:09:23.735
Oh, yeah. And he had a signet support.
142
00:09:24.675 --> 00:09:25.415
What else?
143
00:09:26.115 --> 00:09:30.830
More coin kite chilling here. The sets card, tap signer sets chip. I
144
00:09:31.770 --> 00:09:34.030
listened twice because I screwed up.
145
00:09:34.970 --> 00:09:36.110
The bug fixes,
146
00:09:37.210 --> 00:09:39.595
we actually, released, 1.0.2,
147
00:09:42.055 --> 00:09:47.115
for the firmware on the cards. So for the devs out there, they have the old cards
148
00:09:47.800 --> 00:09:53.740
do request new cards because there is a few more checks on how the cards are verified,
149
00:09:54.120 --> 00:09:55.819
which made it even nicer.
150
00:09:57.125 --> 00:09:57.525
And,
151
00:09:58.485 --> 00:09:59.785
the release is imminent.
152
00:10:00.645 --> 00:10:02.185
We should start shipping soon.
153
00:10:03.765 --> 00:10:07.240
And I'll bump this the bottom there. And there is also
154
00:10:07.700 --> 00:10:09.720
a gallery now for sets shipped.
155
00:10:11.060 --> 00:10:12.040
So that,
156
00:10:12.595 --> 00:10:15.495
artists can submit their art signed by their card
157
00:10:16.115 --> 00:10:19.655
with a picture, and essentially, it's the correct NFT.
158
00:10:20.550 --> 00:10:24.170
And there is an NFC reader now in the store and
159
00:10:24.630 --> 00:10:28.570
a CLI program for them to submit the art that they can sign themselves.
160
00:10:30.264 --> 00:10:32.285
So the artist embeds the SatCHIP,
161
00:10:33.464 --> 00:10:35.004
and then, I guess,
162
00:10:35.305 --> 00:10:38.524
you can tap it with your phone, and then it pulls up your website.
163
00:10:40.100 --> 00:10:45.960
Yeah. So give you a bunch of information. Is that how it works? Yeah. It's it's that plus a little more. So
164
00:10:47.175 --> 00:10:51.435
so essentially, you have a piece of data that essentially certifies the art.
165
00:10:52.775 --> 00:10:58.040
And, and then the new owner of the art takes the card. People were doing this with OpenDimes,
166
00:10:58.740 --> 00:11:06.205
but OpenDime was not designed to do that. So we figured, hey. Might as well, support that properly and and create the the right sort of UX.
167
00:11:07.785 --> 00:11:16.470
So it's basically a chain of custody for art almost? That's right. Well, I wouldn't say chain of custody is more like making art a bear a verifiable bear,
168
00:11:16.950 --> 00:11:17.770
bear instrument.
169
00:11:18.870 --> 00:11:21.750
170
00:11:22.875 --> 00:11:31.035
the Yes. The artist. Like, you can you can you can, like because that's always the problem with art, especially old artists. You don't know Mhmm. Whether it's real or not.
171
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172
00:11:38.860 --> 00:11:39.600
let's say
173
00:11:40.405 --> 00:11:40.905
you
174
00:11:41.605 --> 00:11:42.985
have, like, a whole
175
00:11:43.605 --> 00:11:44.985
whole sort of,
176
00:11:46.325 --> 00:11:47.225
like, plethora
177
00:11:47.850 --> 00:11:57.915
of, like, super high definition images of the of the artwork and all this stuff. You could create a hash of that and then sign the hash plus a few other bits of data
178
00:11:58.695 --> 00:11:59.195
and
179
00:11:59.575 --> 00:12:01.195
and put it out into the world.
180
00:12:01.655 --> 00:12:04.555
And that means that at least you have a chain
181
00:12:05.095 --> 00:12:05.595
of
182
00:12:06.720 --> 00:12:08.260
of say provable ownership
183
00:12:08.800 --> 00:12:09.779
or or provability,
184
00:12:10.240 --> 00:12:12.020
certification of the art really,
185
00:12:12.959 --> 00:12:13.675
through that,
186
00:12:14.075 --> 00:12:14.575
without,
187
00:12:15.035 --> 00:12:17.214
without needing a token or a blockchain.
188
00:12:21.600 --> 00:12:23.780
You could even put into all the time stamps
189
00:12:24.400 --> 00:12:25.460
and, break Bitcoin.
190
00:12:28.695 --> 00:12:29.195
Alright.
191
00:12:30.455 --> 00:12:32.475
C k tap protocol got updated.
192
00:12:32.855 --> 00:12:37.035
193
00:12:39.170 --> 00:12:47.029
194
00:12:49.125 --> 00:12:57.865
But I have never I didn't bother looking into it, but apparently, there was a problem with that. Justin, did you did you notice that I think might have been on the mailing list or not?
195
00:12:59.750 --> 00:13:02.970
196
00:13:04.390 --> 00:13:04.890
197
00:13:05.405 --> 00:13:09.985
We all agree that mailing list became essentially Twitter now about
198
00:13:10.605 --> 00:13:12.145
data emissions. It's it's
199
00:13:12.525 --> 00:13:13.665
it's literally unbearable.
200
00:13:15.080 --> 00:13:17.100
The emissions are not gonna happen, period.
201
00:13:18.279 --> 00:13:23.885
202
00:13:24.505 --> 00:13:25.005
203
00:13:25.625 --> 00:13:31.005
happens. That that's right. Right? I mean or create futures for it. Make a make a emissions,
204
00:13:31.625 --> 00:13:32.845
an emissions fork
205
00:13:33.220 --> 00:13:36.600
token and put on Bitfinex. No. Sorry. On Bitmax.
206
00:13:41.555 --> 00:13:43.415
Anyways, moving on.
207
00:13:45.394 --> 00:13:45.894
CKTAP
208
00:13:46.195 --> 00:13:46.695
protocol
209
00:13:47.235 --> 00:13:47.735
105.
210
00:13:49.690 --> 00:13:52.190
It adds the ability of a nonheartened nerve vision.
211
00:13:53.209 --> 00:13:54.509
It's it's also Quangay.
212
00:13:55.449 --> 00:13:56.190
213
00:13:58.415 --> 00:13:58.915
214
00:14:00.894 --> 00:14:03.714
so that's essentially the protocol to talk to the cards.
215
00:14:05.190 --> 00:14:08.170
We hope that this becomes a standard and other people use it too.
216
00:14:10.870 --> 00:14:11.370
Right.
217
00:14:12.645 --> 00:14:16.985
And then Just just to that You have what? You have
218
00:14:17.365 --> 00:14:24.420
you have 5 coin guide updates in here. Right? No. I'm actually deleting the last one there because it was just double entry. Oh, I see. Okay.
219
00:14:25.840 --> 00:14:31.264
You know, the the the thing is, like, if if other projects did the favor and sent me more
220
00:14:32.365 --> 00:14:32.865
stuff,
221
00:14:34.045 --> 00:14:37.105
you know, to make my life easier with this, it would be great.
222
00:14:37.550 --> 00:14:40.930
223
00:14:41.870 --> 00:14:49.825
224
00:14:50.365 --> 00:14:53.185
or email me at, Bitcoin review atquaint.com
225
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or go on the Telegram.
226
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Any any of the places, really. I mean, or go on GitHub on the next pull request for the next episode and comment there.
227
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That'll be great.
228
00:15:05.935 --> 00:15:07.714
It is a challenge to find,
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the specific things.
230
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So, you know, doing best efforts here.
231
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Oh, and by the way, my wife mentioned listening to the first episode that I do not introduce myself.
232
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I I did tell her that it's probably a good idea.
233
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Anyways, so moving on.
234
00:15:29.680 --> 00:15:36.820
Live and learn. Okay. So I mentioned the oh, yeah. So the reason why we mentioned the CKD app protocol,
235
00:15:37.635 --> 00:15:39.735
aside from being a properly boring update,
236
00:15:40.435 --> 00:15:42.455
is that the CK tap react native
237
00:15:42.835 --> 00:15:43.335
library,
238
00:15:44.830 --> 00:15:48.690
there was a bounty on that, and that was claimed by the Hexa guys.
239
00:15:49.710 --> 00:15:51.170
The Hexa guys built
240
00:15:52.590 --> 00:15:54.530
a React Native library for
241
00:15:55.695 --> 00:15:56.995
the CoinGeide cards.
242
00:15:58.175 --> 00:16:01.615
It was released. There's still a few more things sorta to be fixed, but,
243
00:16:02.334 --> 00:16:03.394
it's getting there.
244
00:16:04.840 --> 00:16:05.240
And,
245
00:16:05.720 --> 00:16:10.780
so that was fun. That was a cool bounty being claimed. Check out the Bitcoin Bounty
246
00:16:12.155 --> 00:16:12.895
bitcoin bounties.org.
247
00:16:15.355 --> 00:16:18.655
There is a lot of, a lot of Bitcoin there up for claims for devs.
248
00:16:21.200 --> 00:16:21.700
Alright.
249
00:16:22.160 --> 00:16:24.500
So now moving on to Zeus
250
00:16:25.200 --> 00:16:26.500
version 0.6.5
251
00:16:27.920 --> 00:16:28.420
release.
252
00:16:29.425 --> 00:16:30.805
Now you can send to Taproot.
253
00:16:32.385 --> 00:16:33.205
You saved
254
00:16:33.745 --> 00:16:34.245
Taproot.
255
00:16:36.520 --> 00:16:39.340
They have some enhancement Android identity support.
256
00:16:39.720 --> 00:16:40.700
I wonder why.
257
00:16:41.640 --> 00:16:45.420
And, they have a a much improved Spark support.
258
00:16:46.165 --> 00:16:50.025
Do, any of you lightning guys, have some comments on that?
259
00:16:53.660 --> 00:16:58.399
260
00:16:58.860 --> 00:17:01.759
Just shout out to Evan and the rest of the team over there.
261
00:17:02.475 --> 00:17:07.455
They've made really good improvements on interface. The interface is very, very clean right now.
262
00:17:07.995 --> 00:17:08.495
263
00:17:09.035 --> 00:17:11.455
Yeah. Zeus Zeus is a pretty cool project.
264
00:17:13.019 --> 00:17:16.720
265
00:17:17.340 --> 00:17:21.679
That's much better now. It looks, you know? Yeah. It looks, it's very Greek.
266
00:17:22.045 --> 00:17:27.345
You know? It's pretty cool, the, like, the aesthetic they got going on there. It's way, way, way better.
267
00:17:28.285 --> 00:17:28.785
268
00:17:30.610 --> 00:17:32.950
269
00:17:33.410 --> 00:17:35.430
a green QT released 1.1.2.
270
00:17:38.105 --> 00:17:40.445
So they refactored the JSON version.
271
00:17:41.145 --> 00:17:43.165
They fixed the UTF 8 memos.
272
00:17:44.025 --> 00:17:45.165
That's a nice one.
273
00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:46.740
And they,
274
00:17:47.440 --> 00:17:53.140
fix, fix for assets with no ticker or issuer. I was actually using it today, and the USD
275
00:17:53.680 --> 00:17:58.335
quotes were not showing up, so something must have broken with their, Bitfinex,
276
00:17:58.795 --> 00:17:59.295
API.
277
00:18:00.715 --> 00:18:02.155
I wish they would have more,
278
00:18:02.795 --> 00:18:06.909
choices of, price sources. Do you guys use green at all?
279
00:18:08.490 --> 00:18:10.110
280
00:18:11.414 --> 00:18:13.914
like, 5 years or 4 years or something like that.
281
00:18:14.534 --> 00:18:17.034
282
00:18:18.054 --> 00:18:21.860
One PetPeev I had is that I I like their wallet. I just hated
283
00:18:22.320 --> 00:18:24.740
the their weird multisig thing.
284
00:18:25.280 --> 00:18:25.780
So,
285
00:18:26.880 --> 00:18:30.555
I was waiting for them to to launch single sig for small amounts.
286
00:18:31.255 --> 00:18:45.230
Right? With that specific UI that they have and they have. So now now that works. And it's nice because it has a desktop version too. Right? So you can have a spending wallet that you have, 2 two sources of of interaction points. Do they have coin control yet? Like that.
287
00:18:45.930 --> 00:18:46.430
288
00:18:47.965 --> 00:18:57.105
I know they they, like, make it easy to do accounts. They make it easy to do accounts, so you can use that as, like, a quasi coin control, but it'd be nice to see actual coin control with labeling.
289
00:18:57.660 --> 00:19:02.560
290
00:19:03.420 --> 00:19:04.160
as much.
291
00:19:06.894 --> 00:19:12.434
I I have sort of, like, different wallets for different things. That's kinda how I Do you actually use liquid? For spending wallets?
292
00:19:13.610 --> 00:19:25.034
293
00:19:28.775 --> 00:19:37.340
294
00:19:38.429 --> 00:19:39.340
295
00:19:39.835 --> 00:19:58.355
296
00:20:00.095 --> 00:20:02.274
Which for all these wallets to have a server,
297
00:20:03.135 --> 00:20:15.545
I mean, why don't they just do end to end encryption and and, like, based on your seed. Right? I'm pretty sure they do that. For the don't the account show up? I thought they No. The accounts do, but not the notes.
298
00:20:16.325 --> 00:20:23.400
299
00:20:24.260 --> 00:20:27.560
300
00:20:27.940 --> 00:20:35.015
Oh, I see. Okay. Like, if you spend you need for accounting. Right? It's it's not it's not for privacy sake. It's just for accounting sake.
301
00:20:36.434 --> 00:20:37.335
302
00:20:38.035 --> 00:20:38.995
That's probably my
303
00:20:39.890 --> 00:20:42.870
one of my largest open source contributions was,
304
00:20:43.330 --> 00:20:45.910
Green Wallet was not intend encrypting
305
00:20:46.210 --> 00:20:46.710
their
306
00:20:48.565 --> 00:20:49.784
their account labels.
307
00:20:50.565 --> 00:20:56.664
And I pointed it out to them and said, you should just encrypt it with the seed, and they did that. So shout out to me.
308
00:20:57.830 --> 00:21:07.575
309
00:21:08.054 --> 00:21:14.394
would require you to do accounts, to do passwords, to do anything because you can just use the seed
310
00:21:14.930 --> 00:21:18.310
to be your private key for the other stuff. Like,
311
00:21:19.170 --> 00:21:21.990
I brought this up with Hugo with the, Nunchuk
312
00:21:22.545 --> 00:21:27.045
and Nunchuk does that now. So you don't have to create an account with Vimeo anymore, which is nice.
313
00:21:29.505 --> 00:21:35.250
And, they they are adding or added a single sig now. Man, Nunchuk is looking awesome.
314
00:21:36.190 --> 00:21:42.414
I think I think it's gonna be the next one that sort of, like, everybody uses. It's all native too for both platforms.
315
00:21:43.034 --> 00:21:44.335
They rewrote everything.
316
00:21:45.835 --> 00:21:46.235
And,
317
00:21:46.794 --> 00:21:47.455
you know,
318
00:21:47.799 --> 00:21:52.620
they don't they don't do like the JavaScript guys where they serialize, deserialize, serialize, deserialize, deserialize
319
00:21:53.320 --> 00:21:56.460
the secrets 50 times in different, like, parts of the software
320
00:21:56.935 --> 00:21:58.395
that that adds a lot of holes.
321
00:21:59.575 --> 00:22:00.075
Anyways,
322
00:22:00.615 --> 00:22:03.275
pretty happy about that. They don't have an update this week.
323
00:22:06.070 --> 00:22:06.890
Right. Next,
324
00:22:07.910 --> 00:22:08.410
Sparrow,
325
00:22:08.950 --> 00:22:09.450
1.6.5.
326
00:22:11.775 --> 00:22:13.934
They add, they added Nano,
327
00:22:14.255 --> 00:22:19.315
Ledger Nano s plus support, probably because HWI got updated a few weeks ago.
328
00:22:20.560 --> 00:22:21.540
They allow now
329
00:22:21.920 --> 00:22:27.540
watch only key stores to enable signing from matching connected hardware. Oh, that's nice.
330
00:22:28.000 --> 00:22:28.500
So
331
00:22:29.495 --> 00:22:32.315
essentially, what that does is as long as
332
00:22:32.615 --> 00:22:33.115
the
333
00:22:33.975 --> 00:22:36.715
the key store matches, I think, the XFP,
334
00:22:37.149 --> 00:22:39.730
Right? So so the the the ID of their wallet.
335
00:22:41.309 --> 00:22:41.970
I think
336
00:22:42.350 --> 00:22:45.809
it's hardware sort of agnostic. It doesn't matter which hardware
337
00:22:46.635 --> 00:22:53.535
device has the private keys. As long as the XFP matches, it should just recognize it as that signer.
338
00:22:54.500 --> 00:23:04.815
339
00:23:05.435 --> 00:23:07.855
340
00:23:08.240 --> 00:23:13.300
it's actually even more secure. Like if like the software wallets don't even know which hardware are you using,
341
00:23:14.080 --> 00:23:15.220
that would be my preference.
342
00:23:17.875 --> 00:23:23.210
Anyways, I import get gap limit from Electrum wallets. That's great. That's also a really nice
343
00:23:23.770 --> 00:23:26.110
feature for people who are migrating from Electrum.
344
00:23:26.570 --> 00:23:28.909
So now you don't have to worry about,
345
00:23:29.690 --> 00:23:32.350
like, going on a on a gap limit hunt
346
00:23:32.855 --> 00:23:33.995
to find your coins.
347
00:23:35.095 --> 00:23:44.820
That's nice. And, lots of bug fixes. I'm sure I I took the liberty of changing the last point there. Well, massive shout out to Craig Craig Raw, who's,
348
00:23:45.140 --> 00:23:52.075
349
00:23:52.535 --> 00:23:53.035
And,
350
00:23:54.375 --> 00:23:58.715
the idea that basically he was sitting there, and he was like, I don't really
351
00:23:59.440 --> 00:24:07.540
I don't really like all the desktop wallets that are available. I'm gonna build my own is one of my favorite parts about the open source ecosystem and and the Bitcoin ecosystem.
352
00:24:08.755 --> 00:24:14.935
353
00:24:16.899 --> 00:24:18.760
That that's how I think, like, most
354
00:24:19.140 --> 00:24:21.960
Bitcoin projects started, including Bitcoin itself.
355
00:24:23.539 --> 00:24:26.845
So I thought she was sitting there. I wish I could send money without permission.
356
00:24:27.385 --> 00:24:28.845
Yeah. Yeah. You're gonna start Dequay.
357
00:24:33.020 --> 00:24:37.260
358
00:24:38.060 --> 00:24:44.565
it was interesting talking to him how he chooses features and stuff. He said he basically waits until some other project prove,
359
00:24:46.325 --> 00:24:51.860
Craig Craig Oh, Craig Wright. Yes. Sparrow? Craig Raw. No. Craig Raw. Yeah.
360
00:24:55.040 --> 00:25:02.925
Yeah. So he, yeah, he just waits for another project to prove out some idea, like BIP 47 or some of the samurai coin coin joining or,
361
00:25:03.445 --> 00:25:09.310
the, HWI, and these things just waits for it to work. And then he implements in his own wall, which I think is kind of a nice,
362
00:25:10.250 --> 00:25:13.930
an interesting attitude. He just waits waits for someone else to prove that it works, and then just
363
00:25:14.725 --> 00:25:17.384
he he just sort of waits for these for this to happen and
364
00:25:33.315 --> 00:25:33.895
365
00:25:35.155 --> 00:25:37.414
hardware 2, especially stuff that just works,
366
00:25:37.820 --> 00:25:40.320
is that there is essentially, like, 1 or 2 great
367
00:25:40.940 --> 00:25:42.160
dudes who write
368
00:25:42.780 --> 00:25:44.000
all the hard stuff,
369
00:25:44.300 --> 00:25:45.440
most of the stuff,
370
00:25:45.745 --> 00:25:46.245
and
371
00:25:46.585 --> 00:25:47.085
then
372
00:25:47.425 --> 00:25:50.965
and then sort of like it gets sort of like released through this like beautiful
373
00:25:51.505 --> 00:25:52.005
marketing
374
00:25:53.905 --> 00:25:56.240
package of a company kind of thing.
375
00:25:56.940 --> 00:25:58.559
But, you know, for the longest time,
376
00:25:59.020 --> 00:25:59.520
377
00:25:59.980 --> 00:26:05.039
had like 4 guys who did all the merging of the 5,000 engineers in the company.
378
00:26:06.284 --> 00:26:07.505
You know, Google
379
00:26:07.885 --> 00:26:09.505
Google has this this entities
380
00:26:10.125 --> 00:26:10.625
called,
381
00:26:11.325 --> 00:26:12.490
independent consultants or something like that. It's essentially people who are not HR compatible.
382
00:26:17.530 --> 00:26:25.995
And these are the people who actually do all the hardship to Google and all of them essentially just report directly to an executive as a, as a consultant
383
00:26:26.615 --> 00:26:28.875
so they don't have issues with HR.
384
00:26:30.500 --> 00:26:36.920
It's kind of fascinating to me that to this day, it's still pretty true in in, like, most hard stuff out there.
385
00:26:37.940 --> 00:26:39.295
And it kinda makes sense.
386
00:26:39.855 --> 00:26:45.715
A lot of projects are essentially like the the the presentation of, like, just like a handful of people.
387
00:26:47.490 --> 00:26:49.669
It just gets sort of like filtered and softened
388
00:26:49.970 --> 00:26:51.429
by the marketing department.
389
00:26:53.570 --> 00:26:54.070
Anyways,
390
00:26:55.330 --> 00:26:55.830
alright.
391
00:26:57.295 --> 00:26:59.055
So next is, blue wallet,
392
00:26:59.535 --> 00:27:00.035
6.3.1.
393
00:27:00.735 --> 00:27:04.435
It was a tiny release, but in between that there was another one, the 6.3.0.
394
00:27:05.490 --> 00:27:07.030
So I figured I'd bring it up.
395
00:27:07.330 --> 00:27:10.950
So they fixed the lightning wallet, fail on their tor.
396
00:27:11.490 --> 00:27:14.150
The passphrase support on multisig, that's nice.
397
00:27:14.985 --> 00:27:15.965
Import bp39multi
398
00:27:16.664 --> 00:27:17.164
language,
399
00:27:18.424 --> 00:27:18.924
lnurl
400
00:27:19.304 --> 00:27:19.804
off.
401
00:27:22.970 --> 00:27:27.630
I have some comments on BIP 39 multi language. I am not a fan, generally speaking.
402
00:27:28.250 --> 00:27:31.550
I am an English maximalist when it comes to BIP 39
403
00:27:32.665 --> 00:27:34.605
because I think a lot of people get screwed.
404
00:27:35.065 --> 00:27:39.885
Their variation language may not be supported by most projects on the day that they need,
405
00:27:41.090 --> 00:27:41.990
but the base
406
00:27:42.610 --> 00:27:47.750
version, which is the language that the the English version will, and is also the simplest,
407
00:27:48.370 --> 00:27:48.870
smallest
408
00:27:49.555 --> 00:27:50.375
character subset.
409
00:27:52.595 --> 00:28:03.800
So, I just wanna stick it out there that if you can use the the English version, even if it's not your native language, it's probably safer and better. Isn't that counterintuitive in this point? Because you're saying
410
00:28:04.420 --> 00:28:23.190
411
00:28:23.490 --> 00:28:25.509
412
00:28:26.115 --> 00:28:29.495
413
00:28:29.795 --> 00:28:37.250
you can just take the the previous release, and now you have strong multi language support. I mean, I talk to a lot of people in Latin America, for instance.
414
00:28:38.110 --> 00:28:40.210
They really struggle with the English words.
415
00:28:40.990 --> 00:28:44.805
So it's kinda good to see at least, you know, the major languages supported.
416
00:28:46.145 --> 00:28:54.220
417
00:28:55.960 --> 00:28:57.179
I you know, I'm surviving.
418
00:28:58.280 --> 00:28:59.260
I I listen.
419
00:28:59.799 --> 00:29:05.195
I I think it's a it's a it's a very awful way of of, like,
420
00:29:05.815 --> 00:29:09.915
existing in the world by, like, sort of forcing your language choice on the rest of the world.
421
00:29:10.540 --> 00:29:11.840
But at the same time,
422
00:29:12.380 --> 00:29:19.600
it's very hard not to because unlike like, say for example, temperature that's only got, like, really 3 main contenders,
423
00:29:20.684 --> 00:29:22.785
Languages have, like, you know, 100.
424
00:29:25.804 --> 00:29:27.745
I don't know. It could get very dicey,
425
00:29:28.125 --> 00:29:31.159
especially when you start supporting pass phrases as well.
426
00:29:31.620 --> 00:29:33.880
Then there is, like, the checks for it.
427
00:29:34.259 --> 00:29:37.240
I think there's gonna be a lot more rooms for bugs as well
428
00:29:37.865 --> 00:29:39.085
that won't be known
429
00:29:39.465 --> 00:29:41.565
because nobody's gonna test all the languages
430
00:29:42.185 --> 00:29:43.085
on the software.
431
00:29:43.785 --> 00:29:45.245
I I just find it risky
432
00:29:45.640 --> 00:29:49.260
for for stuff that is, like, this core to your financial,
433
00:29:50.440 --> 00:29:50.940
existence.
434
00:29:53.405 --> 00:29:55.585
I I would personally avoid it.
435
00:29:59.245 --> 00:30:06.850
436
00:30:08.270 --> 00:30:11.465
But, also, if you're not, this is a massive update for you.
437
00:30:12.885 --> 00:30:14.185
438
00:30:16.885 --> 00:30:19.545
439
00:30:20.230 --> 00:30:25.770
they'll in 10, 15 years, I bet all languages will be supported. So it's, you know, it just takes a while to get there.
440
00:30:26.150 --> 00:30:29.654
441
00:30:30.355 --> 00:30:31.414
Chinese wallet
442
00:30:34.169 --> 00:30:39.070
that sent me, it was a it was a hardware wallet plus mobile phone
443
00:30:39.610 --> 00:30:40.110
app,
444
00:30:40.730 --> 00:30:49.835
that sent me a few of those. That sent me a free free hardware trying to get me to shill it, and they were unsuccessful. But I noticed some other Bitcoin accounts did shill it.
445
00:30:50.535 --> 00:30:54.850
I'm not gonna name names right now. It was a little bit a while ago, but I did test out the wallet,
446
00:30:55.230 --> 00:30:56.290
and they used,
447
00:30:56.750 --> 00:30:57.490
a nonstandard,
448
00:30:58.270 --> 00:30:59.570
like, number system.
449
00:31:00.585 --> 00:31:01.085
And
450
00:31:02.025 --> 00:31:05.565
I didn't love that, but also at the same time, I, like, talked to their team.
451
00:31:06.105 --> 00:31:09.805
And, you know, they have mostly Chinese speakers, Mandarin speakers
452
00:31:10.490 --> 00:31:16.670
that really, really struggle with seed words as a concept. And for them, they were like, numbers are universal.
453
00:31:17.695 --> 00:31:22.595
454
00:31:23.215 --> 00:31:25.570
455
00:31:26.210 --> 00:31:27.750
456
00:31:29.649 --> 00:31:31.269
So, yeah, I mean,
457
00:31:31.570 --> 00:31:34.230
this there there were no letters at all?
458
00:31:35.315 --> 00:31:43.255
459
00:31:45.620 --> 00:31:47.000
460
00:31:49.700 --> 00:31:50.200
461
00:31:52.735 --> 00:31:55.395
462
00:31:56.015 --> 00:32:01.179
463
00:32:01.960 --> 00:32:03.740
to the word list numbers.
464
00:32:05.720 --> 00:32:15.195
Yeah. No. That that that that's still valid. I've seen it before. That's probably it. Like, how many there's, like, 2048, I think, seed words. Something words. Yeah. 2048. And something words.
465
00:32:15.495 --> 00:32:20.470
So, like, each each so there's four four numbers up to four numbers for each word,
466
00:32:20.850 --> 00:32:22.070
and that's what they did.
467
00:32:22.690 --> 00:32:23.909
468
00:32:24.355 --> 00:32:30.615
I I've seen those before for backup, and and I actually quite like it, to just use the number for the word.
469
00:32:31.690 --> 00:32:43.565
470
00:32:45.145 --> 00:32:47.325
If you do the numbers based on the English,
471
00:32:48.200 --> 00:32:51.340
the the the main English seed list seed word list,
472
00:32:52.679 --> 00:32:53.880
then you still have
473
00:32:54.360 --> 00:32:57.895
if if that wallet appears, they can always pull up that list
474
00:32:58.355 --> 00:32:59.975
and then get the English words
475
00:33:00.355 --> 00:33:02.135
and import somewhere else. Do is
476
00:33:02.595 --> 00:33:03.095
477
00:33:03.659 --> 00:33:04.799
12 or 24
478
00:33:05.260 --> 00:33:05.760
numbers
479
00:33:06.140 --> 00:33:06.880
out of
480
00:33:07.980 --> 00:33:08.480
2,048
481
00:33:09.100 --> 00:33:10.355
without repeating them.
482
00:33:10.915 --> 00:33:12.294
That's very, very straightforward.
483
00:33:12.995 --> 00:33:14.294
484
00:33:15.554 --> 00:33:17.075
485
00:33:17.700 --> 00:33:20.279
no. That the the 12 includes the checksum.
486
00:33:20.980 --> 00:33:28.394
487
00:33:29.335 --> 00:33:29.835
488
00:33:31.014 --> 00:33:43.809
Well, you know, knowing knowing, not knowing the wallet, but the way you describing that I assume that the user has no choice in which how the how the the words are picked. I'm sure it's just given to them. Yeah. Zero choice. They just
489
00:33:46.165 --> 00:33:48.265
490
00:33:51.685 --> 00:33:52.745
491
00:33:55.460 --> 00:33:56.840
udev to generate,
492
00:33:57.620 --> 00:33:58.120
entropy,
493
00:33:58.500 --> 00:33:59.320
from Android.
494
00:34:02.179 --> 00:34:02.679
Anyways.
495
00:34:03.635 --> 00:34:05.895
Okay. So moving on to start 9.
496
00:34:06.915 --> 00:34:07.415
EmbaseOS
497
00:34:08.035 --> 00:34:08.535
0.3.1
498
00:34:10.035 --> 00:34:10.855
was released,
499
00:34:12.210 --> 00:34:14.790
and, they have a new password reset flow,
500
00:34:15.170 --> 00:34:16.230
selective backups,
501
00:34:16.530 --> 00:34:17.030
JavaScript
502
00:34:17.730 --> 00:34:18.630
execution environment.
503
00:34:20.175 --> 00:34:23.155
I assume that just means that it's a segregated environment.
504
00:34:23.855 --> 00:34:26.755
Library to import your embassy package projects,
505
00:34:28.130 --> 00:34:31.670
ability to side load packages directly from embassy dashboard,
506
00:34:32.130 --> 00:34:34.470
and they did a bunch of other little improvements.
507
00:34:35.435 --> 00:34:37.855
I think I saw some other EmbaseOS,
508
00:34:39.275 --> 00:34:39.775
update.
509
00:34:41.915 --> 00:34:44.575
Something about making it easy to
510
00:34:45.150 --> 00:34:47.490
do something. Let's take a quick look here.
511
00:34:54.795 --> 00:34:55.535
Oh, yes.
512
00:34:56.075 --> 00:34:57.935
So somebody made a wrapper
513
00:34:58.235 --> 00:35:00.015
or a guide to
514
00:35:00.520 --> 00:35:03.180
make it easy to import or run
515
00:35:03.560 --> 00:35:04.060
bisque
516
00:35:04.680 --> 00:35:06.940
on start 9. That's pretty cool.
517
00:35:08.335 --> 00:35:10.275
Bisk is a very interesting project,
518
00:35:11.295 --> 00:35:13.955
for people that want to, to to trade
519
00:35:14.335 --> 00:35:14.835
off
520
00:35:15.210 --> 00:35:16.910
of, KYC exchanges.
521
00:35:17.770 --> 00:35:20.750
522
00:35:21.770 --> 00:35:25.765
523
00:35:26.545 --> 00:35:28.885
I've actually been curious if they do gift cards.
524
00:35:30.760 --> 00:35:33.740
525
00:35:35.560 --> 00:35:41.215
526
00:35:41.875 --> 00:35:42.375
sort
527
00:35:43.035 --> 00:35:43.535
of
528
00:35:46.555 --> 00:35:50.860
well, if anybody heard about it or is from another project, this is a great
529
00:35:51.240 --> 00:35:51.980
chance to
530
00:35:53.320 --> 00:35:55.420
to shield your project on the next episode.
531
00:35:56.215 --> 00:35:56.715
You
532
00:35:57.015 --> 00:35:58.395
know, just email me,
533
00:35:58.775 --> 00:36:03.915
and we will list it. We are very interested in updates of projects.
534
00:36:05.480 --> 00:36:06.220
All right,
535
00:36:07.400 --> 00:36:09.980
we're moving on to the next list.
536
00:36:10.600 --> 00:36:14.140
I call it a noteworthy list. So it's not necessarily software releases,
537
00:36:15.325 --> 00:36:16.705
not certainly just software,
538
00:36:17.005 --> 00:36:20.865
but it's like stuff that people are working on that got released
539
00:36:21.780 --> 00:36:23.400
or or is gonna be released.
540
00:36:24.099 --> 00:36:24.599
So,
541
00:36:25.060 --> 00:36:25.560
Marshall,
542
00:36:25.940 --> 00:36:27.400
if you guys know OGBTC
543
00:36:27.700 --> 00:36:28.359
on Twitter,
544
00:36:28.980 --> 00:36:30.280
he released his video
545
00:36:32.165 --> 00:36:32.665
using
546
00:36:33.045 --> 00:36:35.945
a board that him and some Chinese friends created
547
00:36:36.325 --> 00:36:37.385
to overclock,
548
00:36:38.565 --> 00:36:39.705
an s 19.
549
00:36:40.210 --> 00:36:42.950
Okay, from 95 terra ash to a
550
00:36:43.970 --> 00:36:45.430
111, terra ash
551
00:36:48.025 --> 00:36:52.605
without, changing the firmware, without doing anything. So no warranty voided.
552
00:36:53.464 --> 00:36:55.645
It's actually a man in the middle. It's kinda brilliant.
553
00:36:56.290 --> 00:36:58.869
And I think they were selling for, like, around $200
554
00:36:59.250 --> 00:37:01.910
or something like that. So he was taking orders,
555
00:37:02.530 --> 00:37:03.349
from Twitter.
556
00:37:04.050 --> 00:37:09.155
That's pretty cool. Mind you, this is a guy who runs one of the biggest mining operations in the world.
557
00:37:11.135 --> 00:37:14.700
558
00:37:15.240 --> 00:37:16.780
performance improvement. Yes.
559
00:37:17.160 --> 00:37:21.420
560
00:37:22.105 --> 00:37:24.845
It's like, I'm sure he's not running that in his mind.
561
00:37:26.025 --> 00:37:27.645
562
00:37:28.184 --> 00:37:33.440
the sleep miner is really cool. Anyone who's running an s 19 that's not using that is at a disadvantage now.
563
00:37:34.860 --> 00:37:35.360
Yep.
564
00:37:38.115 --> 00:37:38.775
565
00:37:39.315 --> 00:37:39.815
Nunchuck,
566
00:37:40.115 --> 00:37:40.615
Tapsigner.
567
00:37:41.475 --> 00:37:43.255
Nunchuck did a a demo,
568
00:37:43.715 --> 00:37:45.415
using Tapsigner to cosign.
569
00:37:46.890 --> 00:37:49.070
So just you just tap, give the PIN,
570
00:37:49.530 --> 00:37:50.670
and you cosign
571
00:37:51.050 --> 00:37:51.950
a multisig
572
00:37:52.490 --> 00:37:53.310
via NFC.
573
00:37:54.185 --> 00:37:55.965
That that was really really cool.
574
00:37:56.665 --> 00:37:58.845
They're gonna release that version of the app soon.
575
00:37:59.865 --> 00:38:02.205
I happen to have a a version of the app.
576
00:38:03.730 --> 00:38:05.590
APK is really, really nice.
577
00:38:07.010 --> 00:38:07.750
What else?
578
00:38:09.970 --> 00:38:10.790
579
00:38:11.795 --> 00:38:14.055
the the demo video, is that you doing the demo?
580
00:38:14.915 --> 00:38:26.030
No. That was that was Hugo sending it to me. Did you see I called out that it didn't look like it was your hands in the RHR? And he's and Marty said it was your hands, and I said, no. I'm I'm pretty sure that's R and MBK's hands.
581
00:38:29.115 --> 00:38:34.015
You know my fingerprint. Yeah. So just shout out shout out to me on on spotting that in the video.
582
00:38:34.315 --> 00:38:35.135
583
00:38:36.795 --> 00:38:38.174
584
00:38:39.250 --> 00:38:42.069
585
00:38:42.530 --> 00:38:45.270
he created a private club essentially,
586
00:38:46.050 --> 00:38:46.790
and he's
587
00:38:47.235 --> 00:38:49.655
the authentication with the cards to do
588
00:38:50.035 --> 00:38:50.855
a to do
589
00:38:51.635 --> 00:39:00.230
essentially, he wants to do proof of reserves for tabs, bar tabs, where you just leave the card on the, like, a a Sats card, a loaded Sats card. You leave it at the the the
590
00:39:00.850 --> 00:39:01.750
the bar people,
591
00:39:02.930 --> 00:39:03.830
as a collateral.
592
00:39:05.635 --> 00:39:09.815
And also use it to authenticate to get into the bar, into this private club.
593
00:39:10.355 --> 00:39:12.135
I found that to be kinda cool.
594
00:39:13.280 --> 00:39:14.980
I think that that has some lags.
595
00:39:15.680 --> 00:39:30.674
596
00:39:31.000 --> 00:39:35.819
Is it is I mean, the entering is kinda cool because you can attach memberships
597
00:39:36.520 --> 00:39:39.275
to the private key, public key pair. Mhmm.
598
00:39:40.535 --> 00:39:41.035
But,
599
00:39:41.335 --> 00:39:43.674
when it actually comes time to paying at the bar,
600
00:39:44.214 --> 00:39:45.194
I feel like
601
00:39:46.650 --> 00:39:53.585
that's kind of old world thinking, the tab concept in general. Like, why not just every time you get a drink, if the NFC works really well,
602
00:39:54.065 --> 00:39:56.645
just tap to pay every time you get a drink instead
603
00:39:57.505 --> 00:39:59.765
of giving them the card to hold on to?
604
00:40:01.425 --> 00:40:04.200
605
00:40:04.660 --> 00:40:05.320
of collateral
606
00:40:05.700 --> 00:40:07.000
based interactions,
607
00:40:08.100 --> 00:40:09.480
especially with bare instruments.
608
00:40:11.805 --> 00:40:18.260
But, yeah, I I mean, maybe maybe that's the way it works. Maybe, maybe just tap of your lightning wallet to pay
609
00:40:18.820 --> 00:40:19.720
each interaction.
610
00:40:20.020 --> 00:40:24.280
611
00:40:24.900 --> 00:40:25.400
friends.
612
00:40:26.525 --> 00:40:27.905
And, you know, some bars
613
00:40:28.285 --> 00:40:29.985
some bars do a tab system,
614
00:40:31.165 --> 00:40:35.020
where they just swipe your card your credit card once, and then they give you back the card, and then
615
00:40:37.020 --> 00:40:37.760
other ones hold on to the card. And,
616
00:40:38.620 --> 00:40:45.664
when the places hold on to the card, I've seen many, many times people wake up the next morning, and they're like, fuck. My credit card's still there?
617
00:40:46.045 --> 00:40:51.984
And at least they have the ability to cancel it. They have, like, fraud checks and stuff. But if you, like, leave your Bitcoin at the bar,
618
00:40:52.370 --> 00:40:57.190
619
00:40:58.530 --> 00:41:07.515
Like, that was his idea. So maybe for the private club, there is, like, other benefits that you might wanna leave your collateral there. I don't know. But then if you have a maybe
620
00:41:07.895 --> 00:41:17.130
621
00:41:17.830 --> 00:41:19.770
And and it's a membership system.
622
00:41:21.655 --> 00:41:24.955
And so, like, I've been thinking through these things as well.
623
00:41:26.135 --> 00:41:30.075
And, like, don't like, we know who all our members are. We have a 100 members.
624
00:41:31.440 --> 00:41:34.580
625
00:41:35.200 --> 00:41:38.020
626
00:41:38.615 --> 00:41:45.915
mixed with a community center, mixed with a co working space, mixed with an event space, mixed with studios for for recording,
627
00:41:47.420 --> 00:41:49.920
located in Nashville next to the 2 major colleges.
628
00:41:50.619 --> 00:41:53.259
It's community supported, so we have a 100,
629
00:41:53.579 --> 00:41:54.640
in state members,
630
00:41:55.414 --> 00:42:00.315
that pay an annual fee, and then we have a 100 out of state members that pay a reduced annual fee.
631
00:42:00.934 --> 00:42:02.075
You get one of those
632
00:42:03.390 --> 00:42:06.210
little key cards that allow you to enter the facility,
633
00:42:07.869 --> 00:42:09.250
anytime you want, 247.
634
00:42:10.565 --> 00:42:11.065
Connections
635
00:42:11.765 --> 00:42:17.865
stopped. Hey, Matt. Can you repeat? Because we I lost you there for a No. It's still recorded because it records locally.
636
00:42:18.799 --> 00:42:26.500
Yeah. But it didn't record on my side. Well, unless it does upload. Right? Yeah. It just uploads afterwards. So I think everyone heard the the Bitcoin Park,
637
00:42:27.535 --> 00:42:30.035
shill, but we're we're about a month and a half old.
638
00:42:30.415 --> 00:42:32.195
We just had a meet up here yesterday.
639
00:42:33.215 --> 00:42:34.355
Had over 250
640
00:42:34.655 --> 00:42:35.475
people here,
641
00:42:37.680 --> 00:42:40.820
and I guess we had to meet up 2 days ago, and a lot of people stayed.
642
00:42:41.200 --> 00:42:46.464
We have hotels that are close by that we have partnerships with, so you get reduced rates. We're gonna have
643
00:42:46.765 --> 00:42:48.385
private events, public events,
644
00:42:50.204 --> 00:42:57.060
the the whole 9 yards. So very excited about it. So if you are if you are in the Midwest in the United States, consider stopping by.
645
00:42:57.680 --> 00:42:58.900
We'd love to have you.
646
00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:00.820
Very cool.
647
00:43:02.375 --> 00:43:04.555
648
00:43:06.055 --> 00:43:10.855
649
00:43:11.450 --> 00:43:14.670
the interactions that they had at the Bitcoin Park, this week.
650
00:43:15.690 --> 00:43:20.565
651
00:43:22.305 --> 00:43:28.829
652
00:43:30.410 --> 00:43:34.349
And, and I heard from them that they love when people drop by.
653
00:43:34.970 --> 00:43:36.750
654
00:43:37.635 --> 00:43:41.974
Nashville just got a really strong booming Bitcoin community. It's really cool to see it grow.
655
00:43:43.075 --> 00:43:45.950
I think, the mag now Bitcoin Magazine has
656
00:43:46.430 --> 00:43:48.930
almost 30 employees based in Nashville here.
657
00:43:49.950 --> 00:43:50.770
658
00:43:53.744 --> 00:43:59.444
Alright. So now moving on to oh, this lightning network PCB,
659
00:44:00.144 --> 00:44:02.164
there is this guy on,
660
00:44:02.625 --> 00:44:05.110
Twitter, that Twitter add me called sufroid.
661
00:44:06.210 --> 00:44:13.190
Lots of cool PCBs on this account. He said he was going to send me more information about this lightning network PCB. It didn't happen.
662
00:44:14.755 --> 00:44:15.895
But I assume
663
00:44:16.435 --> 00:44:17.975
it's sort of like a lightning,
664
00:44:19.715 --> 00:44:24.140
like point of sale or something with a custom board. Anyways, it looked kinda cool.
665
00:44:24.680 --> 00:44:27.900
The link is on the on the notes if anyone is interested.
666
00:44:28.714 --> 00:44:29.214
Alright.
667
00:44:30.234 --> 00:44:33.214
So maybe this is, where Justin will have some
668
00:44:33.595 --> 00:44:34.734
some comments here.
669
00:44:35.115 --> 00:44:39.190
I did not spend too much time on it. Space chain by Rubin.
670
00:44:39.970 --> 00:44:40.950
This is a permissionless,
671
00:44:41.970 --> 00:44:44.470
one way pegged Bitcoin side chain.
672
00:44:44.770 --> 00:44:46.710
All value goes to BGC holders,
673
00:44:47.095 --> 00:44:49.755
all fees go to miners, stable coins, NFTs,
674
00:44:50.455 --> 00:44:51.595
low value payments,
675
00:44:51.975 --> 00:44:52.475
DNS,
676
00:44:52.935 --> 00:44:55.595
scams, all the good stuff can go on top of this.
677
00:44:56.030 --> 00:44:56.770
It seemed interesting,
678
00:44:58.990 --> 00:45:03.250
because it it does the one way peg on Bitcoin side chains,
679
00:45:04.885 --> 00:45:11.305
but it did not seem to need anything from Bitcoin to change to exist, which is always welcome.
680
00:45:12.700 --> 00:45:19.680
681
00:45:21.285 --> 00:45:28.905
682
00:45:32.320 --> 00:45:36.820
683
00:45:37.935 --> 00:45:39.395
is one of the best telegrams,
684
00:45:40.015 --> 00:45:42.115
for technical stuff. There's a lot of really interesting
685
00:45:43.855 --> 00:45:44.355
686
00:45:44.655 --> 00:45:47.075
687
00:45:48.310 --> 00:45:50.650
Who's a Bitcoin core contributor, and,
688
00:45:51.190 --> 00:45:56.375
he's, like, at Dhruv on GitHub and Twitter. So I assume that means he can program well. I don't know.
689
00:45:57.335 --> 00:46:01.675
They just got, like, a a a grant to, actually try to build a space chain.
690
00:46:01.975 --> 00:46:04.155
Because he he he posted, like, a little implementation
691
00:46:04.710 --> 00:46:12.650
that, about 5 months ago that's not it's just like a proof of concept. So it sounds like they're actually trying to build it, which is exciting.
692
00:46:13.185 --> 00:46:20.165
Very cool. Is awesome. We had A lot of it is around, like, trying to get the ecosystem of a shit coin going without the,
693
00:46:21.640 --> 00:46:25.260
creating new tokens. That's basically You know anything you can use.
694
00:46:25.720 --> 00:46:27.500
695
00:46:28.360 --> 00:46:30.700
the market wants a means
696
00:46:32.495 --> 00:46:37.855
to scam everyone. No. Just kidding. That's that's a lot of people. But now the market really wants a means to,
697
00:46:38.960 --> 00:46:40.900
to create essentially a security.
698
00:46:41.760 --> 00:46:42.260
Right?
699
00:46:44.800 --> 00:46:46.820
And, Matt, you're you're fully
700
00:46:47.120 --> 00:46:47.620
muted.
701
00:46:49.365 --> 00:46:53.065
So, anyway, so so the market really wants a means to create a security. Right?
702
00:46:54.164 --> 00:46:54.664
And
703
00:46:54.964 --> 00:47:00.480
and so far, the most successful version of that is the Ethereum shit coin.
704
00:47:01.420 --> 00:47:01.920
But
705
00:47:02.755 --> 00:47:08.535
people really want, you know, a way to to sort of, like, sell shares of whatever their thing is.
706
00:47:08.914 --> 00:47:14.360
As long as we're honest about how centralized that is, I I don't see any problems with that, and I think that should be done on top of Bitcoin.
707
00:47:15.140 --> 00:47:17.240
All the value should be done on top of Bitcoin.
708
00:47:18.900 --> 00:47:27.985
By the way, the on the list, we have a link to Ruben's presentation, which I hope to watch soon. He was he presented space chains on advancing Bitcoin.
709
00:47:30.500 --> 00:47:33.480
710
00:47:33.940 --> 00:47:36.760
blind the the the merge mining and stuff like that.
711
00:47:38.020 --> 00:47:41.435
712
00:47:43.655 --> 00:47:47.640
713
00:47:48.900 --> 00:47:49.800
714
00:47:51.460 --> 00:47:56.225
I mean, maybe it's not. Maybe there is like a few sort of small tweaks that make it so
715
00:47:56.525 --> 00:47:57.985
he actually makes it out.
716
00:48:00.045 --> 00:48:03.650
I don't know. If he got a grant and there's a lot of people interested, it must
717
00:48:04.750 --> 00:48:08.290
be substantially different than drive chain which went nowhere.
718
00:48:10.964 --> 00:48:19.690
719
00:48:20.890 --> 00:48:21.690
they've always
720
00:48:22.090 --> 00:48:28.105
you know, Paul's never really found any reviewers for that because it's just, like, it's sort of too much. You know? Right.
721
00:48:31.685 --> 00:48:32.185
722
00:48:33.445 --> 00:48:34.825
Moving on to,
723
00:48:37.160 --> 00:48:38.140
silent payments.
724
00:48:39.799 --> 00:48:44.220
That picked my interest, but another one that I didn't have a lot of time to look into.
725
00:48:44.715 --> 00:48:46.095
Let's just click here.
726
00:48:47.595 --> 00:48:51.855
How silent payments are bringing new privacy protections to Bitcoin?
727
00:48:52.900 --> 00:48:56.200
728
00:48:57.620 --> 00:49:01.640
Like, it's kinda like I don't know, like, bolt 12 or any of these where you get, like, a static
729
00:49:04.265 --> 00:49:07.885
well, it's like you get a static thing, a static address that could be paid
730
00:49:08.345 --> 00:49:17.430
into multiple times privacy. Mhmm. So you can't link the payments that are sent to it. And so the way, like, the existing thing that works right now is bit 47,
731
00:49:17.825 --> 00:49:19.845
and so that's anchored in an op return.
732
00:49:20.464 --> 00:49:24.645
And so the the one problem with that is that if you get change from your op return,
733
00:49:25.425 --> 00:49:26.244
and you,
734
00:49:27.839 --> 00:49:28.339
like,
735
00:49:28.640 --> 00:49:33.460
I I think there's, like it it it's, like, kind of assumes that you're in a CoinJoin wallet. Right? Like, in Samurai,
736
00:49:34.015 --> 00:49:34.515
Sparrow,
737
00:49:34.815 --> 00:49:37.714
the project projects that, like, standardize this,
738
00:49:38.414 --> 00:49:43.680
you know, the the the change is just mixed, so it's not a problem to have change from an op return. But,
739
00:49:44.240 --> 00:49:54.945
it's a little it's a little harder with, like, if if you if your wallet can't do, coin joints, then it's bit 47 could potentially be a footgun. That's at least the complaints.
740
00:49:57.485 --> 00:49:57.885
With,
741
00:49:58.590 --> 00:50:03.490
with I'm just trying to remember exactly. Silent payments, there's no on chain footprint to set it up. Mhmm.
742
00:50:04.430 --> 00:50:06.130
And how it works is that
743
00:50:06.895 --> 00:50:11.954
you publish some sort of a key, and then you have to scan every block that comes in.
744
00:50:12.575 --> 00:50:13.075
And,
745
00:50:13.770 --> 00:50:23.125
there's an algorithm to combine your static key with the like, the first input that pays towards it. And so you have to the receiver has to go scan every block, every transaction,
746
00:50:23.425 --> 00:50:26.485
and check whether the first input to this transaction
747
00:50:27.025 --> 00:50:29.525
combined with your static, you know, address,
748
00:50:32.690 --> 00:50:33.670
like, pays you.
749
00:50:34.450 --> 00:50:35.990
If it pays, like, you know, it
750
00:50:36.369 --> 00:50:44.435
it like, basically, why this is spendable by you. So it it doesn't have the on chain footprint to set it up, but there's a lot of, operational overhead in terms of, like,
751
00:50:44.815 --> 00:50:46.595
scanning every single block forever.
752
00:50:46.950 --> 00:50:50.090
753
00:50:50.470 --> 00:50:55.690
one is, unfortunately we have computers that can just keep on scanning blocks for it.
754
00:50:56.174 --> 00:50:58.674
We already do that for transactions anyways, right?
755
00:51:00.174 --> 00:51:03.395
And the second thing that is nice is that there is no coordinator.
756
00:51:03.775 --> 00:51:09.860
I really like that. If I remember right, with BIP 47, you do need a coordinator. No. You don't need a coordinator.
757
00:51:10.240 --> 00:51:12.020
758
00:51:12.400 --> 00:51:14.180
I I was troubleshooting something.
759
00:51:15.825 --> 00:51:18.964
You you don't you don't need a coordinator for bit 47.
760
00:51:19.984 --> 00:51:22.325
That's the whole point of the opportune,
761
00:51:22.785 --> 00:51:28.200
notification transaction. You and you can recover you can recover directly from seed. Now Samura
762
00:51:28.820 --> 00:51:29.880
and Sparrow,
763
00:51:30.980 --> 00:51:33.155
both have something called PayNIMS
764
00:51:33.535 --> 00:51:43.120
integrated as well. Yeah. That's that's what I thought the coordinator was. No. But that's just a centralized server that connects the BIP 47 payment code to a human readable name.
765
00:51:43.660 --> 00:51:56.335
766
00:51:56.795 --> 00:52:01.280
767
00:52:02.780 --> 00:52:07.440
it's not a valid like, when you talk about the trade off discussion between silent payments
768
00:52:07.815 --> 00:52:15.915
and BIP 47, that's not valid because anyone could also make a silent payments centralized server that links it to a human readable name as well.
769
00:52:16.600 --> 00:52:19.100
So that's not really valid for the actual,
770
00:52:19.400 --> 00:52:20.220
like, protocol
771
00:52:20.520 --> 00:52:21.020
conversation.
772
00:52:21.480 --> 00:52:24.140
And then to to what Justin said about
773
00:52:24.625 --> 00:52:25.285
the opportune
774
00:52:25.745 --> 00:52:26.725
change being,
775
00:52:27.745 --> 00:52:29.205
a potential foot gun,
776
00:52:29.665 --> 00:52:35.000
I mean, to me, it's like with the alternative is people are gonna use static reused addresses
777
00:52:35.380 --> 00:52:37.720
that are obviously horrible for your privacy.
778
00:52:39.460 --> 00:52:44.645
So if if that change is an issue, then the alternative is also horrible. Probably better.
779
00:52:46.065 --> 00:52:49.310
780
00:52:51.130 --> 00:52:52.830
like, future addresses to
781
00:52:53.690 --> 00:52:57.310
a a human legible thing that is sitting on the server somewhere.
782
00:52:59.655 --> 00:53:00.955
That would just be my
783
00:53:02.135 --> 00:53:02.635
my
784
00:53:02.935 --> 00:53:04.795
non preferred set of trade off.
785
00:53:05.530 --> 00:53:09.630
Assuming you could do the same as silent payments. I don't know. It's nice to have more options.
786
00:53:10.330 --> 00:53:12.890
BIP 47 is quite old, and,
787
00:53:13.775 --> 00:53:15.215
aside from from,
788
00:53:15.695 --> 00:53:18.675
Sparrow Samurai, like, it never really took hold.
789
00:53:19.135 --> 00:53:25.650
So maybe the new one is the sort of set of trade offs or implementation that people like and it takes off.
790
00:53:27.790 --> 00:53:28.610
The the privacy
791
00:53:29.665 --> 00:53:30.885
space in general,
792
00:53:31.984 --> 00:53:33.285
you know, it's unfortunate
793
00:53:33.744 --> 00:53:35.125
that it's so small.
794
00:53:35.505 --> 00:53:36.325
There is, what,
795
00:53:36.625 --> 00:53:38.965
5, 4000 coins in CoinJoin
796
00:53:39.490 --> 00:53:40.770
on samurai and
797
00:53:41.650 --> 00:53:48.550
798
00:53:49.245 --> 00:53:51.985
if if you if you're thinking about something like BIP 47
799
00:53:52.685 --> 00:53:53.985
or silent payments,
800
00:53:54.765 --> 00:53:58.640
usually, probably the number one use case would be a donation use case,
801
00:53:59.680 --> 00:54:07.935
where, like, you you post the static address, the static code, or the static QR code, you know, on social media or wherever you're gonna post it,
802
00:54:08.335 --> 00:54:27.135
and then people can easily pay you donations. And the number one thing in donations is is you don't want friction. You want you want people to be able to easily pay you. So it comes down to wallet support. Right? And so Yeah. But, Matt, nobody should be doing donations on chain anyways for small amounts because Wow. Sure, today the fees are very low. But generally speaking,
803
00:54:27.435 --> 00:54:35.260
that's what lightning solves. Okay. So then silent payments doesn't solve that issue either is what I'm saying. Right? So, like, the issue is, like okay. So even if you have,
804
00:54:35.560 --> 00:54:38.300
you know, 1 or 2 wallets implement silent payments,
805
00:54:39.560 --> 00:54:46.174
it's still not gonna be useful for a donation use case until you have a a large amount of them doing it so you know that, you know, someone can open
806
00:54:46.870 --> 00:54:55.850
let's be honest, most people are using a lot of people are using regulated custodial services. Like, if you can't pay it with with Cash App or or Kraken or some shit like that,
807
00:54:56.175 --> 00:54:57.955
You're just gonna get way less donations.
808
00:54:59.135 --> 00:55:01.555
809
00:55:03.220 --> 00:55:06.119
For example, let's say I have a
810
00:55:06.740 --> 00:55:09.000
a supplier or another partner,
811
00:55:09.540 --> 00:55:15.305
of CoinKite that we do a lot of business together, so we have a lot of sort of, like, Bitcoin transactions back and forth.
812
00:55:16.885 --> 00:55:18.745
It would be nice to have essentially
813
00:55:19.525 --> 00:55:21.145
a a non expub
814
00:55:22.770 --> 00:55:25.270
way of getting new addresses for them,
815
00:55:26.690 --> 00:55:29.830
where we can sort of transact between each other a lot.
816
00:55:32.115 --> 00:55:35.734
So so that's sort of like a case. Okay. So that's fine.
817
00:55:36.194 --> 00:55:58.630
Then you then you don't really need massive wallet support. You just need a wallet that you both agree on. Yeah. Of course. For the donation stuff, I'm sorry, man. But, like, the lightning stuff makes me more and and I'm the lightning bear. Okay. Okay. So And I'm like, I still think the lightning makes a lot more sense for all that stuff because transactions are too small in value. Enrique, I like I pay a lot attention to, like, the donation use case in Bitcoin,
818
00:55:59.890 --> 00:56:05.590
819
00:56:05.905 --> 00:56:09.125
but also because I've been doing a lot of work with the HRF and activists.
820
00:56:09.505 --> 00:56:10.885
And if you look at it,
821
00:56:11.265 --> 00:56:14.819
like, at the lightning step adds a lot of complexity,
822
00:56:15.280 --> 00:56:19.940
particularly for activists. Right? So if you look at the Canadian trucker situation,
823
00:56:20.800 --> 00:56:22.420
if they're gonna accept lightning
824
00:56:22.975 --> 00:56:39.940
as their donation use case, they need to figure out how to have an always up node that's hot has hot keys, that has good liquidity No. But I think that Wait one second. So like All the truckers. The truckers didn't want Bitcoin. Okay. But the trucker let's say Guys, not the way Let's say the truckers did want Bitcoin. Bitcoiners.
825
00:56:40.655 --> 00:56:41.635
826
00:56:42.494 --> 00:56:47.795
827
00:56:48.260 --> 00:56:49.720
if if you're an individual
828
00:56:50.500 --> 00:56:54.920
protester somewhere and you wanna accept donations in an adversarial environment,
829
00:56:55.575 --> 00:57:04.155
on chain is uniquely suited for that. They just need a a relatively standard protocol to be able to post something static up there that doesn't reuse addresses.
830
00:57:04.599 --> 00:57:11.980
Because then they don't have to deal with liquidity. They can do it all from their mobile phone. They can keep keys offline if they wanna keep keys offline relatively easily.
831
00:57:13.365 --> 00:57:18.825
832
00:57:19.605 --> 00:57:20.325
833
00:57:24.070 --> 00:57:24.730
once again
834
00:57:25.190 --> 00:57:33.210
once again, this is this is not my point. I think even in an activist scenario, if you use a wallet without your own node
835
00:57:34.055 --> 00:57:36.875
and you're using it through Tor, and it's through on chain,
836
00:57:37.974 --> 00:57:40.634
and you're not reusing addresses It is an improvement.
837
00:57:41.010 --> 00:57:44.390
That that can be very helpful for people in adversarial environments.
838
00:57:45.329 --> 00:57:46.069
And, unfortunately,
839
00:57:46.450 --> 00:57:47.829
we just don't really so
840
00:57:48.285 --> 00:57:55.025
so you made a good point there that Canadian truckers didn't want Bitcoin. Well, let's say they did. Right? Let's say protesters want Bitcoin.
841
00:57:55.350 --> 00:57:58.010
The major takeaway to me of that debacle
842
00:57:59.430 --> 00:58:04.490
was the current landscape, the way it was set up, is there was one large centralized donation pool
843
00:58:05.075 --> 00:58:19.980
managed by, you know, relatively JW for that. Relatively few individuals that then was spread out. Right? So what you really want to see is you wanna see all the individual protesters be able to basically run their own donation campaign. So you have a bunch of little ones.
844
00:58:20.515 --> 00:58:25.335
Right? And then you start to talk about, okay. So how does enforcement of that look and it becomes whack a mole?
845
00:58:27.234 --> 00:58:27.734
846
00:58:28.035 --> 00:58:29.734
Yeah. No. It's it's not
847
00:58:30.660 --> 00:58:41.405
it's not a simple problem, and there is just too many trade offs and too many separate solutions. So I I I don't think we have good answers to that yet, but but I think they're coming.
848
00:58:41.785 --> 00:58:42.605
849
00:58:42.985 --> 00:58:44.765
every everyone knows I'm the most
850
00:58:45.369 --> 00:58:52.510
I'm the most prolific Fetterman show now, and we have Justin Moon on the pod. But I I do hope that Fetterman's provide a a interesting,
851
00:58:53.450 --> 00:58:59.045
trade off balance for for activists and protesters in adversarial environments that wanna receive donations.
852
00:58:59.905 --> 00:59:01.525
853
00:59:05.030 --> 00:59:06.890
That's Now we're doing a little bit of order.
854
00:59:07.670 --> 00:59:13.345
Yeah. It is. We were going to talk about FedMin, like, later. But you know what? Like, why don't we
855
00:59:14.685 --> 00:59:16.944
why don't we just jump to Fedmint?
856
00:59:19.750 --> 00:59:21.450
I'll switch the order on the notes.
857
00:59:22.070 --> 00:59:25.450
I think I think it's totally worth bringing it up since we're in the topic anyways.
858
00:59:25.910 --> 00:59:28.090
It's a fantastic solution, and Chaumian
859
00:59:28.735 --> 00:59:30.915
servers are not, like, new,
860
00:59:31.935 --> 00:59:34.435
which is kinda great too. It's like proven technology.
861
00:59:36.790 --> 00:59:37.589
862
00:59:38.230 --> 00:59:44.250
in terms of, like, end user experience that Matt is referring to, it's, Chaumian e cache,
863
00:59:44.555 --> 00:59:45.055
Chaumian
864
00:59:45.755 --> 00:59:48.655
mint. So basically, what that means is it's a custodial thing,
865
00:59:49.355 --> 00:59:51.375
where you somebody has to deposit,
866
00:59:52.400 --> 00:59:53.700
some asset into,
867
00:59:54.079 --> 00:59:56.180
a mint using the traditional terminology,
868
00:59:56.559 --> 00:59:57.540
and then you get
869
00:59:58.000 --> 01:00:00.099
a little bear token, a bear IOU.
870
01:00:01.164 --> 01:00:03.585
And so with some magical crypto,
871
01:00:04.204 --> 01:00:05.184
blind signatures,
872
01:00:06.365 --> 01:00:06.605
the,
873
01:00:08.020 --> 01:00:08.580
what the,
874
01:00:09.140 --> 01:00:10.200
the mint sees
875
01:00:10.580 --> 01:00:11.080
when,
876
01:00:12.180 --> 01:00:14.760
a deposit is made is a blinded
877
01:00:15.140 --> 01:00:15.640
message,
878
01:00:16.625 --> 01:00:28.130
and they produce a blinded signature. And then the user is able to unblind the signature, and and turn into just a normal signature. And so when they wanna redeem this IOU, they present this unblinded signature. And so the key thing is that,
879
01:00:29.630 --> 01:00:30.130
whenever,
880
01:00:30.510 --> 01:00:40.255
Mint sees a redemption of an IOU, they can tell that it's real, that it's valid, but they can't tell which deposit it came from. So your anonymity set is everyone else who's deposited,
881
01:00:41.470 --> 01:00:45.569
and not just, like, the moment of actual deposit, any any transfer of these IOUs.
882
01:00:46.029 --> 01:00:46.769
And so,
883
01:00:47.630 --> 01:00:51.115
that's the idea, and it's the original paper was from, like, 1982.
884
01:00:52.055 --> 01:00:54.075
It's had a checkered history of deployment,
885
01:00:54.455 --> 01:00:55.355
partially because,
886
01:00:56.375 --> 01:01:01.260
generally, you had to have a centralized mint in order to do this because, Fiat doesn't have multisig.
887
01:01:01.720 --> 01:01:04.860
And so Eric Kurian's one of his ideas was that, well,
888
01:01:05.480 --> 01:01:10.164
Bitcoin has multisig, you could make a Federated Chow Me Mint. So, hopefully, it would be,
889
01:01:10.545 --> 01:01:19.670
a little bit less of a honeypot. And so, that's the way that's how Fedi Min got started. It was an attempt to build a a CHOMNI mint and then a federated CHOMNI mint and then,
890
01:01:19.990 --> 01:01:28.555
a CHOMNI mint that, one one problem with this is, like, you get these little IOUs. Right? So if if I'm in one mint and you're in another, we have no way to exchange because our IOUs are different
891
01:01:29.095 --> 01:01:30.395
are, you know, just incompatible.
892
01:01:31.494 --> 01:01:33.115
So because, you know, we have different
893
01:01:33.880 --> 01:01:37.020
authorities on on on what is and isn't a a deposit.
894
01:01:37.720 --> 01:01:41.500
Lightning allows you basically like a way to settle between these mints.
895
01:01:41.835 --> 01:01:42.335
So,
896
01:01:42.715 --> 01:01:43.515
so, yeah, you could,
897
01:01:44.075 --> 01:01:44.815
there's some
898
01:01:45.595 --> 01:01:47.375
potentially, like, very, you know,
899
01:01:49.010 --> 01:01:51.910
powerful private it's a potentially very powerful privacy tool,
900
01:01:52.210 --> 01:01:52.710
and,
901
01:01:53.650 --> 01:02:01.925
and, yeah, it's, you know, it's it's it's very early. Like, we just so so the little news item here is we just, merged the ability to receive lightning payments.
902
01:02:02.465 --> 01:02:05.125
We've been able to send for a while, but now we can send and receive.
903
01:02:05.589 --> 01:02:10.089
So that gives you an idea of how early it is. We're just trying to get it sorted to work.
904
01:02:10.710 --> 01:02:25.170
But kind of along the way, like, Fedimint has become very it's it's it's it's really interesting. It's it's it's basically a framework for building federations now. So everything is extremely modular. So right now, there's an unchained wallet, a Chaumy Mint, and then a a Lightning interface.
905
01:02:25.869 --> 01:02:32.535
But in the future, you could build all kinds of things, on top of this. And any sort of app that you want to run-in Bitcoin, if you want to split the trust across
906
01:02:32.915 --> 01:02:35.575
multiple parties, you could do that with Fedimint.
907
01:02:36.355 --> 01:02:42.060
So I think it's, like, an interesting idea that's under explored, so that's why what got me interested in. And then and, yeah.
908
01:02:42.680 --> 01:02:43.660
That's my show.
909
01:02:44.520 --> 01:02:46.140
910
01:02:46.495 --> 01:02:48.915
I've always sort of, like, loved the original
911
01:02:49.455 --> 01:02:50.275
sort of,
912
01:02:50.735 --> 01:02:51.235
idea
913
01:02:51.535 --> 01:02:52.035
and
914
01:02:52.895 --> 01:02:59.799
and and concept that, like, Blockstream had way back then about side chains that just took too long to launch
915
01:03:00.900 --> 01:03:03.240
and had maybe the wrong set of trade offs,
916
01:03:03.645 --> 01:03:08.704
But the idea of having a single source of truth, right, where it's Bitcoin,
917
01:03:09.484 --> 01:03:11.665
and then you spin off all the side chains
918
01:03:13.870 --> 01:03:17.250
you know, in a different sort of technology than liquid. Right?
919
01:03:18.190 --> 01:03:29.395
It it's super super powerful and and resolves a lot of problems because, you know, different groups of people may want different set of trade offs, but they probably still want to share the same source of truth.
920
01:03:29.900 --> 01:03:33.200
Right? And Bitcoin provides the best security there is in the game.
921
01:03:34.300 --> 01:03:40.075
It's, it's it's just nice to see more stuff being actively worked on on this space
922
01:03:40.375 --> 01:03:41.675
that is not just liquid.
923
01:03:44.375 --> 01:03:49.590
924
01:03:50.450 --> 01:03:52.310
Not easily, but, like, you could do that.
925
01:03:52.930 --> 01:04:00.065
You know, it has, you know, out of the box, it has a consensus algorithm. It has a way of deposits. The deposits work the same way as liquids do.
926
01:04:01.005 --> 01:04:01.505
And,
927
01:04:02.690 --> 01:04:04.550
you know, you you could probably run
928
01:04:04.930 --> 01:04:07.349
some of the some of their code I mean,
929
01:04:07.810 --> 01:04:09.829
Liquid isn't open source, unfortunately.
930
01:04:10.265 --> 01:04:13.565
But, if it was open source, you could just probably run a lot of that code inside of it.
931
01:04:13.865 --> 01:04:17.725
And, you know, to get the confidential transactions, confidential asset stuff,
932
01:04:21.240 --> 01:04:23.020
933
01:04:24.680 --> 01:04:27.260
I don't know. I can't remember how much of their stuff is open.
934
01:04:27.734 --> 01:04:30.714
Is there HSM that is closed, right, not Liquid itself?
935
01:04:31.575 --> 01:04:32.555
936
01:04:33.175 --> 01:04:34.714
the what the functionaries run,
937
01:04:35.190 --> 01:04:39.690
you know, the the people that run each federation server, I believe that's closed source as well. Yeah.
938
01:04:40.390 --> 01:04:47.145
Yeah. That's not great. So That that won't that won't get a job. I'm a I'm a fan of it. I think it's I think it's an interesting I think it's a cool thing.
939
01:04:48.485 --> 01:04:51.205
Like, yeah. I I I like the idea of it, and,
940
01:04:51.765 --> 01:04:55.700
and, yeah, I mean, it's not like to say that this is the you know, it doesn't you know, there's there's
941
01:04:56.080 --> 01:04:56.580
still,
942
01:04:56.880 --> 01:04:57.380
like,
943
01:04:58.720 --> 01:05:06.545
there's a lot of useful tools in Bitcoin. This isn't, like, the the be all, end all. Right? There's no Of course. And I think none of them will. All. So reasons to use
944
01:05:07.005 --> 01:05:07.505
yeah.
945
01:05:08.685 --> 01:05:09.745
946
01:05:11.610 --> 01:05:12.350
I I
947
01:05:12.810 --> 01:05:15.710
I I think that when it comes to to networks,
948
01:05:16.970 --> 01:05:17.470
the
949
01:05:18.090 --> 01:05:18.590
the
950
01:05:19.055 --> 01:05:19.555
the
951
01:05:20.015 --> 01:05:21.075
protocol implementation
952
01:05:21.615 --> 01:05:22.835
must be,
953
01:05:23.135 --> 01:05:23.635
like,
954
01:05:24.655 --> 01:05:30.299
open not not GPL, but, like, actually, MIT. Right? It needs to be open in a way
955
01:05:30.839 --> 01:05:34.940
that any party can do whatever he see fits including monetizing it closed.
956
01:05:35.880 --> 01:05:39.405
Right? Yeah. That's how you get networks to expand. Yeah.
957
01:05:40.745 --> 01:05:46.845
But but the the business logic and everything else running on top, that's that's your own business. Right?
958
01:05:47.225 --> 01:05:50.680
So when you build a network that the network implementation
959
01:05:51.220 --> 01:05:56.280
is not open, you're not gonna get buy in. That that's that's a huge, huge problem.
960
01:05:56.694 --> 01:05:58.954
961
01:06:00.135 --> 01:06:07.890
I'm curious, Justin, on your opinion here. I mean, when I think about pediments, I almost I don't I don't think of it in comparison to liquid. I think of it more
962
01:06:08.590 --> 01:06:11.250
in comparison to, you know, something like, which
963
01:06:11.870 --> 01:06:13.250
is a completely custodial
964
01:06:15.165 --> 01:06:17.424
non privacy preserving from your custodian
965
01:06:18.045 --> 01:06:19.984
lightning wallet on the phone, which
966
01:06:20.365 --> 01:06:21.744
a lot of people are using.
967
01:06:23.890 --> 01:06:26.230
And your project kind of offers you
968
01:06:26.850 --> 01:06:30.150
a way better trade off balance, which is reduced custodial risk
969
01:06:30.475 --> 01:06:34.975
because it's federated and privacy from the custodians because of the Chongqing e cash.
970
01:06:36.795 --> 01:06:43.520
So so to me, I almost I almost compare it more to, like, those lightning wallets that currently exist rather than something like liquid.
971
01:06:46.220 --> 01:06:53.535
972
01:06:54.654 --> 01:07:00.050
some of the ways it achieves these trade offs is that it works kind of like liquid. So, like, the implementation
973
01:07:00.590 --> 01:07:05.855
is similar to liquid. The feature set at the end from the end user is is gonna be different.
974
01:07:06.415 --> 01:07:13.715
Yeah. I mean, that's the whole point of Chami and Minit. Right? Like It's just what I wanna use from Lightning. Like, what I wanna use from Lightning is a custodial
975
01:07:14.500 --> 01:07:20.280
thing where it always works. I want it to never fail, and, I want it to be private.
976
01:07:21.994 --> 01:07:22.655
You know?
977
01:07:23.035 --> 01:07:28.415
That's, like, what I want as an end user. So I think this hopefully, we can find something like that here.
978
01:07:28.955 --> 01:07:29.775
979
01:07:30.075 --> 01:07:31.055
The the idea
980
01:07:31.950 --> 01:07:34.050
of not having to to manage
981
01:07:34.510 --> 01:07:35.490
your lightning
982
01:07:36.110 --> 01:07:37.810
node stuff would be great,
983
01:07:38.590 --> 01:07:40.130
with privacy. Right? Because
984
01:07:40.734 --> 01:07:47.714
you know, it is substantially less monetary value so I don't care about the security as much, right?
985
01:07:48.369 --> 01:07:52.390
So it would be nice to not care about babysitting it either.
986
01:07:53.490 --> 01:08:08.960
987
01:08:09.500 --> 01:08:13.040
where you wanna you wanna post something. Maybe you're in an adversarial environment.
988
01:08:14.125 --> 01:08:15.185
All else equal,
989
01:08:15.645 --> 01:08:23.025
receiving privately on lightning is way more difficult than sending privately on lightning. And to that effect, we've actually seen
990
01:08:23.390 --> 01:08:34.775
a lot of privacy minded users. They will they will receive to a custodial lightning wallet, and then they'll send to their own wallet, which is ridiculous and has a lot of foot gun potential, and you're trusting the custodian with that.
991
01:08:35.554 --> 01:08:38.054
So so a Fedimint wallet could provide
992
01:08:38.840 --> 01:08:39.420
a very
993
01:08:40.120 --> 01:08:44.860
easy convenient user experience that preserves privacy on the receive side,
994
01:08:45.480 --> 01:08:46.219
of lightning.
995
01:08:47.445 --> 01:08:49.465
996
01:08:49.765 --> 01:08:52.505
this specific implementation of Chow Me Mint
997
01:08:53.285 --> 01:08:54.425
being able to
998
01:08:55.730 --> 01:08:57.590
being able to produce, like,
999
01:08:58.210 --> 01:09:00.070
other tokens of types,
1000
01:09:00.690 --> 01:09:01.750
like other other
1001
01:09:02.445 --> 01:09:05.344
things aside from trying to transport,
1002
01:09:06.125 --> 01:09:07.184
essentially, a Bitcoin
1003
01:09:07.804 --> 01:09:09.184
UTXO in a way?
1004
01:09:12.350 --> 01:09:14.050
1005
01:09:14.590 --> 01:09:15.810
I hope we can build
1006
01:09:16.590 --> 01:09:21.704
other things on top of this. Wait. It's always a question. You're gonna be on consensus
1007
01:09:22.165 --> 01:09:24.585
1008
01:09:26.860 --> 01:09:28.560
1009
01:09:29.580 --> 01:09:38.125
I don't know. My my focus is just actually trying to build it, you know, like, the the the other the other interesting thing about Fediment is that it's extremely high quality
1010
01:09:39.065 --> 01:09:41.980
server code, you know, like, it's it's written,
1011
01:09:42.360 --> 01:09:43.420
in a good language,
1012
01:09:43.800 --> 01:09:44.300
Rust.
1013
01:09:44.680 --> 01:09:45.000
It's,
1014
01:09:45.640 --> 01:09:54.215
the code is very readable. It's very well organized. It's, like, it's it's really good code. Having looked at some of these other projects I won't name, the code quality is higher here.
1015
01:09:54.535 --> 01:09:55.435
And so, like,
1016
01:09:56.695 --> 01:10:14.455
it's it's a high wire act to build, like, a a daemon like this, that is like, that non technical people could run and it just works for a few years, for example. Right? That's great. Like, that's I I think this project could actually achieve that, that level of quality that, you know, it's hard to get there. So that's part of my reasoning here is I think I think it could
1017
01:10:14.755 --> 01:10:15.315
it could,
1018
01:10:16.115 --> 01:10:23.280
do a lot of different things, and I think it the the it's gonna be solved through really, really high quality software, which is is not how
1019
01:10:23.739 --> 01:10:25.840
like, that's the best way to solve things, and
1020
01:10:26.355 --> 01:10:39.730
not a lot of projects solve their problems in that manner. You know, a lot of problem Mhmm. Projects solve their problems by throwing frameworks at problems and throwing all kinds of deployment and all kinds of crazy shit like that, rather than just writing really, really good software that is modular and doesn't crash.
1021
01:10:41.605 --> 01:10:48.505
1022
01:10:51.140 --> 01:10:53.080
1023
01:10:54.020 --> 01:10:56.120
1024
01:10:56.715 --> 01:11:06.780
I you know, there is this sort of, like, mentality a little bit probably because it came from the SharePoint space where everybody needs to, like, create this sort of solutions. They need to talk to each other.
1025
01:11:07.640 --> 01:11:19.574
And Mhmm. And and I'm of the opposing view on that. I I I think that's stupid. We already have Bitcoin. Bitcoin is the source truth and it's how you settle. Right? On sort of like your your base settlement layer. Right?
1026
01:11:20.900 --> 01:11:25.400
I think we should have had 5 different lightning solutions that don't talk to each other.
1027
01:11:25.780 --> 01:11:28.920
You know, like, there were 50 papers for payment channels.
1028
01:11:29.515 --> 01:11:37.615
So if you divide that by 10, you should have had 5 competing implementations that were trying to do different things and don't necessarily interact with each other.
1029
01:11:37.930 --> 01:11:40.590
I I think we would be in a much better place right now.
1030
01:11:41.290 --> 01:11:41.790
So
1031
01:11:42.090 --> 01:11:47.905
it's it's just nice to see more different things being tried. So props to you. Yeah.
1032
01:11:48.685 --> 01:11:55.425
1033
01:11:56.290 --> 01:12:03.349
working on it. So if you're a talented Rust developer and would like to become 1, send me a DM, pop in the discord listed on our GitHub readme.
1034
01:12:05.445 --> 01:12:05.945
1035
01:12:06.405 --> 01:12:09.625
And, do follow Justin on Twitter to get updates about
1036
01:12:17.820 --> 01:12:24.445
you know, that there is this meme that nobody uses liquid. So there is this new project using liquid. So I figured I I bring it up because,
1037
01:12:24.985 --> 01:12:28.685
you know, we all win if all the projects get a lot more use. So
1038
01:12:29.380 --> 01:12:30.520
it's called the liquid
1039
01:12:31.060 --> 01:12:31.540
Fuji
1040
01:12:32.020 --> 01:12:32.920
Fuji money.
1041
01:12:34.099 --> 01:12:36.280
It's essentially a place to borrow
1042
01:12:36.625 --> 01:12:40.485
Bitcoin backed stable coins, you know, synthetic stocks and all that stuff,
1043
01:12:41.264 --> 01:12:43.284
without so it's essentially like a decentralized
1044
01:12:47.300 --> 01:12:49.719
way to borrow with some collateral,
1045
01:12:50.739 --> 01:12:51.719
to do things.
1046
01:12:53.219 --> 01:12:54.600
That that must be
1047
01:12:55.515 --> 01:13:04.920
there must be a demand because there is a few of these platforms that they all seem to have enough users to be able to afford to sponsor podcasts and throw conferences. It's basically
1048
01:13:05.300 --> 01:13:06.760
1049
01:13:07.460 --> 01:13:07.960
1050
01:13:10.100 --> 01:13:22.390
You know, as much as I'm not a huge fan of that stuff, I I there is a market, and there will always be a market for this stuff. Right? So I rather this stuff being built on top of Bitcoin. That's that's my thinking.
1051
01:13:27.410 --> 01:13:29.990
1052
01:13:32.295 --> 01:13:32.795
1053
01:13:34.935 --> 01:13:37.435
1054
01:13:38.270 --> 01:13:38.770
1055
01:13:39.230 --> 01:13:41.970
Well, that's that's good too because, you know, that brings users.
1056
01:13:43.630 --> 01:13:44.130
Yeah.
1057
01:13:44.430 --> 01:13:46.130
And I like the dot money,
1058
01:13:46.430 --> 01:13:50.655
shitcoin TLD. GTLDs are shitcoins, but I have a bunch of them, so
1059
01:13:51.034 --> 01:13:52.255
might as well have fun.
1060
01:13:53.994 --> 01:13:54.494
Alright.
1061
01:13:54.930 --> 01:13:55.430
So,
1062
01:13:56.050 --> 01:13:57.590
the unchained guys,
1063
01:13:58.930 --> 01:14:01.030
have now a new trading desk,
1064
01:14:03.065 --> 01:14:03.565
and,
1065
01:14:04.025 --> 01:14:06.105
you know, they are expanding, and,
1066
01:14:06.825 --> 01:14:12.110
you can what's what's kinda cool about that is for the people who want a more sort of hands,
1067
01:14:13.930 --> 01:14:23.785
hands off approach to their cold storage, these are good people, and and, you know, when when people do transactions and buy Bitcoin, they can put straight into your cold storage
1068
01:14:24.165 --> 01:14:26.825
with the vaults that they they do with you.
1069
01:14:28.219 --> 01:14:29.440
I know a lot of,
1070
01:14:30.699 --> 01:14:35.119
boomers or or family offices or sort of, like, entities
1071
01:14:36.015 --> 01:14:38.595
that may need a third party to handle things
1072
01:14:39.695 --> 01:14:41.635
regardless of how we feel about that.
1073
01:14:42.255 --> 01:14:50.010
So it's just nice to see that there is sort of like this more vertical integrations on on how people handle these things because it does reduce the attack surface a lot.
1074
01:14:50.630 --> 01:14:51.030
So,
1075
01:14:51.909 --> 01:14:53.369
good for them to do this.
1076
01:14:55.575 --> 01:14:56.395
What else?
1077
01:14:56.775 --> 01:14:58.715
Bitcoin has merged on Taproot.
1078
01:15:00.695 --> 01:15:01.995
Justin, do you have opinions?
1079
01:15:02.510 --> 01:15:03.170
I don't.
1080
01:15:05.310 --> 01:15:05.810
No.
1081
01:15:06.350 --> 01:15:07.890
Yeah. It's just just adding
1082
01:15:08.350 --> 01:15:10.130
essentially test factors for taproot.
1083
01:15:10.975 --> 01:15:12.995
I figured it's worth worth mentioning.
1084
01:15:14.975 --> 01:15:15.875
So Kaza,
1085
01:15:17.535 --> 01:15:19.875
Kaza now has an API for people to integrate
1086
01:15:20.230 --> 01:15:21.370
their solution into.
1087
01:15:23.190 --> 01:15:29.690
You know, again, more interesting stuff happening. Like, these products are trying to sort of like find their niche and sort of expand.
1088
01:15:30.995 --> 01:15:34.054
I like the idea of people trying different things.
1089
01:15:36.035 --> 01:15:39.950
What else? I mean, interesting one here. Yeah. Go ahead. Interesting one here was Hoseki.
1090
01:15:40.570 --> 01:15:47.745
1091
01:15:48.364 --> 01:15:49.425
you know, like,
1092
01:15:49.965 --> 01:15:58.720
you got your cost of balance, and then your house equity produces a proof of reserve, and you can go, you know, get a small business loan or something, stuff like that. I think that's kinda cool to see how it's,
1093
01:15:59.360 --> 01:16:02.740
1094
01:16:03.280 --> 01:16:05.675
is that just traditionally speaking,
1095
01:16:06.695 --> 01:16:08.715
just proving that you have the coins
1096
01:16:09.094 --> 01:16:10.875
probably won't get you alone.
1097
01:16:11.230 --> 01:16:13.170
I think they're gonna wanna hold that collateral.
1098
01:16:13.870 --> 01:16:21.555
Because the problem with Bitcoin as collateral is that Bitcoin is extremely soluble, right? So technically I could just run away with it.
1099
01:16:21.935 --> 01:16:26.430
And the reason why traditionally people use real estate as collateral is because you can't run away with it.
1100
01:16:28.190 --> 01:16:34.945
So Yeah. But then I think I think we're ways off from having Bitcoin collateral sorry, Bitcoin being used as proof of
1101
01:16:35.425 --> 01:16:39.445
reserves, proof of fact that you have money to pay back a loan without
1102
01:16:40.065 --> 01:16:46.260
1103
01:16:47.200 --> 01:16:47.700
1104
01:16:48.240 --> 01:16:48.980
1105
01:16:49.840 --> 01:16:54.080
you were you were excited about the proof of reserves for that guy's private club, like,
1106
01:16:55.105 --> 01:16:58.305
1107
01:16:59.105 --> 01:17:13.170
1108
01:17:13.805 --> 01:17:15.505
maybe you see something like Unchained,
1109
01:17:16.525 --> 01:17:19.105
or huddle huddle where where it's a non rehypothecated
1110
01:17:19.565 --> 01:17:20.065
multisig
1111
01:17:21.570 --> 01:17:22.070
custody
1112
01:17:22.449 --> 01:17:24.550
mixed with additional proof of reserves.
1113
01:17:25.250 --> 01:17:29.110
Also, when when you when you do go out for loans, a lot of times,
1114
01:17:30.135 --> 01:17:33.515
they they just wanna see, like, a a level of income or,
1115
01:17:34.375 --> 01:17:40.280
you know, what stocks you hold. They'll ask you to get, like, a brokerage account sign off or you're trying to get a rental somewhere,
1116
01:17:41.060 --> 01:17:52.905
and they want they wanna see if you're actually able to pay your rent for for a year going up. You know who I met. Maybe that landlord maybe that landlord would would see that and be like, okay. Well, you know, this person at this time has proved,
1117
01:17:53.845 --> 01:17:55.705
that they have, you know, a couple $1,000,000
1118
01:17:56.230 --> 01:18:00.010
worth of Bitcoin, obviously, they can afford the $3,000 a month rent.
1119
01:18:00.870 --> 01:18:11.805
I'm gonna approve them for this. The second thing that's really cool about this is because it's, you know, using the native fact that that you have these crypto cryptographically verifiable signatures.
1120
01:18:13.480 --> 01:18:15.099
Once you do that proof of reserves,
1121
01:18:15.560 --> 01:18:29.955
whoever your counterparty is can see if you've moved those assets. Right? And they know in a verifiable way that you've moved your assets. So there are a lot of advantage there as compared to something like a brokerage account saying, oh, like, he owns 200 shares of Apple stock or something like that.
1122
01:18:31.490 --> 01:18:34.150
1123
01:18:35.170 --> 01:18:38.205
re I realized in the last sort of year, let's put it this way,
1124
01:18:39.005 --> 01:18:42.465
like, looking around the loans, playing around with those Bitcoin backed loans and stuff,
1125
01:18:43.965 --> 01:18:45.825
and talking to a lot of,
1126
01:18:47.095 --> 01:18:47.595
like,
1127
01:18:48.260 --> 01:18:49.400
like, loan brokers,
1128
01:18:50.180 --> 01:18:50.680
essentially.
1129
01:18:51.940 --> 01:18:55.080
And and I finally sort of really internalize
1130
01:18:55.780 --> 01:18:56.280
why
1131
01:18:56.745 --> 01:18:59.565
they like traditional assets is because of the friction.
1132
01:19:00.105 --> 01:19:04.285
Right? If you want to liquidate all your stocks and get the money back,
1133
01:19:04.720 --> 01:19:06.980
it takes a few days at a minimum.
1134
01:19:07.280 --> 01:19:12.260
Right? And some brokerages will take, like, even longer than that, for for your little stuff.
1135
01:19:12.720 --> 01:19:13.220
So,
1136
01:19:14.364 --> 01:19:14.864
and
1137
01:19:15.324 --> 01:19:16.784
and that friction buys
1138
01:19:17.085 --> 01:19:17.585
counterparties
1139
01:19:17.965 --> 01:19:18.465
time
1140
01:19:19.965 --> 01:19:21.344
for trying to get
1141
01:19:23.310 --> 01:19:27.090
trying to get litigation done. And and there is more than that.
1142
01:19:28.830 --> 01:19:39.395
When you liquidate some of those assets that already takes time, they go to your bank account which is also capturable. Right? So it's a whole chain of capturable stuff. That's how the whole legacy world works.
1143
01:19:41.000 --> 01:19:51.415
With with the new Bitcoin world, nothing is capturable and everything is low friction. Right? So technically, it could be in in a different country the next day with all your collateral.
1144
01:19:52.195 --> 01:19:54.535
So the the flight risk is a lot higher.
1145
01:19:57.085 --> 01:19:59.710
So I personally think it could be a little harder
1146
01:20:01.570 --> 01:20:02.070
for
1147
01:20:03.930 --> 01:20:10.365
for for Bitcoin to be used as collateral without having it as a share custody or something. However,
1148
01:20:11.065 --> 01:20:23.130
the idea of being able to prove that you have a certain net worth will be easier for things that are forward going like rent, for example, proving that you have enough cash flow to pay rent.
1149
01:20:24.455 --> 01:20:32.295
That'd be harder for loans, but easier for things like the the the the rent situation. Yeah. I mean, look, everything obviously has trade offs. I think,
1150
01:20:33.620 --> 01:20:34.840
1151
01:20:35.300 --> 01:20:45.295
in with Bitcoin. Like, look. Bitcoin natively already has proof of reserves. You can just sign a message. Right? That's that functionality has been around forever. Now when you're talking about,
1152
01:20:46.315 --> 01:20:47.615
people that are not necessarily
1153
01:20:48.075 --> 01:20:58.610
very in tune with the Bitcoin world, They wanna see some kind of they want an easy flow. They want a certification process. They want all these other things. Right? And that's kind of where Hoseki comes into play.
1154
01:21:00.005 --> 01:21:01.065
I I think,
1155
01:21:04.005 --> 01:21:07.145
I I I agree with the trade offs you've mentioned,
1156
01:21:08.390 --> 01:21:11.770
but there's also some novel improvements there over
1157
01:21:12.390 --> 01:21:18.565
the the way a lot of this legacy stuff works. Right? The legacy stuff, like, there there's a situation where,
1158
01:21:19.505 --> 01:21:25.285
obviously, like, if if, a brokerage account had, like, an open API or something or API
1159
01:21:26.590 --> 01:21:28.050
agreements with lenders,
1160
01:21:28.670 --> 01:21:30.850
that lender could have real time balance,
1161
01:21:31.630 --> 01:21:34.805
updates and and can tell, like, if you're liquidating your stuff or not.
1162
01:21:35.845 --> 01:21:40.025
That's not really the world we live in. You you basically, like, print out a brokerage statement,
1163
01:21:40.405 --> 01:21:50.670
and you bring it to the bank or you, like, fax to the bank or whatever, and they couldn't literally photoshop it. Yeah. And they put it in a filing cabinet. Right? And send it to them. Right. But Bitcoin Proof of Reserves and
1164
01:21:51.755 --> 01:21:53.215
and a a project like Hoseki,
1165
01:21:54.635 --> 01:21:55.615
could make that
1166
01:21:56.075 --> 01:21:57.615
could make that, you know,
1167
01:21:58.620 --> 01:22:00.960
significantly improved in different ways
1168
01:22:01.340 --> 01:22:07.760
in a very interoperable easy way. Right? Because you you have this interoperable standard that is the Bitcoin blockchain.
1169
01:22:08.935 --> 01:22:11.035
1170
01:22:12.375 --> 01:22:14.635
the, essentially, the the
1171
01:22:15.550 --> 01:22:22.929
the the proof of ownership or or or the collateral size. Right? Like, or proof of reserves, really. Anonymizing that is a huge deal as well
1172
01:22:23.365 --> 01:22:28.345
so that he can use this essentially, like, you know, just just this hash or signature
1173
01:22:28.805 --> 01:22:35.980
to to prove something without actually showing the addresses or anything to a third party. That that's it's it's kinda similar to DIDs in a way. Right?
1174
01:22:37.480 --> 01:22:38.940
You have a more transportable,
1175
01:22:40.735 --> 01:22:44.114
anonymized thing that is just is just better for everyone.
1176
01:22:46.255 --> 01:22:55.110
Alright. Oh, here's one that I don't I didn't have time to to look into it or or get the links, but I I wanted to add to the list is Robosats.
1177
01:22:55.935 --> 01:22:58.835
I I've heard this sort of going around a bit.
1178
01:22:59.535 --> 01:23:02.595
It seems like people are into it. I know nothing about it.
1179
01:23:04.230 --> 01:23:06.890
1180
01:23:07.750 --> 01:23:09.290
I'm pretty excited about it.
1181
01:23:10.465 --> 01:23:11.364
It's basically
1182
01:23:11.744 --> 01:23:13.045
a, you know, a lightweight,
1183
01:23:13.585 --> 01:23:22.070
p to p exchange for Bitcoin to fiat. Presumably, it could be, you know, Bitcoin to other things as well in the future, but right now it's Bitcoin to fiat.
1184
01:23:22.530 --> 01:23:24.630
It runs all internally in your browser,
1185
01:23:25.250 --> 01:23:31.164
with everything done locally, So the lift is very low. You can use it from mobile. You can use it,
1186
01:23:31.704 --> 01:23:34.605
from desktop. You can use it from an iPad or something.
1187
01:23:35.690 --> 01:23:44.430
And it default it you have to use Tor. It's, it's an onion link. So the whole project runs behind Tor and defaults to Tor.
1188
01:23:44.805 --> 01:23:45.465
So you
1189
01:23:45.844 --> 01:23:46.665
have relatively
1190
01:23:47.125 --> 01:23:50.344
decent privacy guarantees. You have low lift, easy UX,
1191
01:23:51.205 --> 01:24:03.935
pretty convenient, and it's run by NIMS, which you love to see with a project like this. It's actually very easy to monetize because they just collect fees, so it's sustainable. It doesn't have to rely on open source funding, like grant funding or something like that.
1192
01:24:04.555 --> 01:24:10.650
It is an open source project. They did something really cool with so you generate your keys when you first load it up.
1193
01:24:11.130 --> 01:24:12.750
Those keys are used for everything.
1194
01:24:13.690 --> 01:24:14.190
Obviously,
1195
01:24:14.730 --> 01:24:16.989
oh, the whole thing is is lightning only.
1196
01:24:17.530 --> 01:24:23.435
They do have swap out functionality, so you can withdraw to an on chain address, but by default, it's all lightning.
1197
01:24:23.895 --> 01:24:26.074
And they use those keys actually for
1198
01:24:26.830 --> 01:24:31.170
the messaging platform. So you have, like, a chat messaging when you're doing the exchange.
1199
01:24:32.030 --> 01:24:38.175
Every message is not only end to end encrypted, but it's also signed. So when you do have disputes and you have to go to the RoboSats
1200
01:24:38.475 --> 01:24:38.975
mediator,
1201
01:24:39.915 --> 01:24:43.535
it's not like he said, she said screenshots. It's all cryptographically
1202
01:24:43.995 --> 01:24:45.135
signed messages.
1203
01:24:47.020 --> 01:24:48.159
1204
01:24:50.300 --> 01:24:53.045
1205
01:24:54.405 --> 01:24:58.824
1206
01:24:59.925 --> 01:25:07.560
but BISK on their trade off model tried to make, basically make something that is is is more censorship resistant or more regulatory resistant,
1207
01:25:08.580 --> 01:25:11.480
while Robosats is like, we can just do this thing centralized,
1208
01:25:12.015 --> 01:25:14.195
but we'll do it behind NIMs using Tor,
1209
01:25:14.975 --> 01:25:20.355
and and make that lift way way easier so you don't have to run your own node. You don't have to do all these other things.
1210
01:25:20.910 --> 01:25:23.550
1211
01:25:24.910 --> 01:25:31.995
if, if something that the state doesn't like goes through it, they would just sort of go to the server, see who has the credit cards there, and,
1212
01:25:32.715 --> 01:25:33.775
and go after them.
1213
01:25:34.315 --> 01:25:46.190
But they don't really have any information about the users anyways, so it really is a sort of it's a it's what I like to call a cat and mouse project. It's it's kinda it's I hope they stay around for long enough. I don't like making this example because it, like,
1214
01:25:46.605 --> 01:25:47.905
1215
01:25:49.485 --> 01:26:00.909
criminal activity, which I I don't think this project's about. State may deem anything illegal. No. Yeah. I know. But where I was going with it is, like, the trade off model is similar to most darknet markets is what I would say. Right. Right? Okay.
1216
01:26:02.170 --> 01:26:02.670
1217
01:26:04.375 --> 01:26:04.875
Cool.
1218
01:26:06.055 --> 01:26:08.235
1219
01:26:08.695 --> 01:26:09.595
Bismar app?
1220
01:26:10.030 --> 01:26:13.570
Probably Yeah. You don't have to install anything. Heavy ass Java.
1221
01:26:14.510 --> 01:26:15.010
Yeah.
1222
01:26:17.045 --> 01:26:20.505
1223
01:26:21.685 --> 01:26:24.505
you know, brand new and and built from scratch.
1224
01:26:25.100 --> 01:26:26.160
1225
01:26:26.500 --> 01:26:32.640
1226
01:26:33.035 --> 01:26:35.215
Both trying to tackle the same thing, which
1227
01:26:35.515 --> 01:26:37.135
is p to p Bitcoin trades,
1228
01:26:38.235 --> 01:26:42.720
without KYC, and I I think the future's bright there. I'm I'm pretty excited about it.
1229
01:26:43.840 --> 01:26:49.300
1230
01:26:50.065 --> 01:26:53.045
Even being centralized, just 50 pop up after.
1231
01:26:53.585 --> 01:26:54.085
So,
1232
01:26:54.545 --> 01:26:57.765
you know, with with a new way of sort of
1233
01:26:58.330 --> 01:27:01.550
implementing these things based on Bitcoin, based on lightning,
1234
01:27:03.210 --> 01:27:07.470
you know, you'll be you you'll get to a point where they'll just give up. Right? Like,
1235
01:27:08.315 --> 01:27:13.775
it's kinda like, you know, become selective enforcement where if there's a dude smoking pot on the street,
1236
01:27:14.155 --> 01:27:20.570
like most people, like police doesn't give a fuck, and then, you know, they would just pick 1 guy that they don't like to to deal with it.
1237
01:27:21.030 --> 01:27:30.645
Not that there is anything illegal about what people are doing, but just realistically speaking, that's how the states, that all the the state actors behave. Right? They just when they cannot make something captured,
1238
01:27:31.585 --> 01:27:33.364
they will just do selective enforcement.
1239
01:27:35.590 --> 01:27:36.330
100%. Mhmm.
1240
01:27:37.430 --> 01:27:40.330
Even worst if you think about it, but,
1241
01:27:42.955 --> 01:27:48.015
alright. So this is the other part of the show. If you haven't been bored to death yet,
1242
01:27:48.475 --> 01:27:51.375
we're moving on now to the Bitcoin off tech newsletter,
1243
01:27:51.820 --> 01:27:54.480
which is even even even more boring.
1244
01:27:55.340 --> 01:27:58.560
1245
01:27:59.020 --> 01:27:59.520
1246
01:28:00.245 --> 01:28:08.825
I I know there's just one And your wife will probably drop by this point? All all the wives are dropping at this point. Oh, she dropped after the fact that there was no intro.
1247
01:28:12.280 --> 01:28:13.020
All right.
1248
01:28:13.800 --> 01:28:14.300
So,
1249
01:28:14.600 --> 01:28:15.900
so Bitcoin uptech,
1250
01:28:16.679 --> 01:28:22.775
people that don't know is a fantastic sort of, source of, of Bitcoin information, especially about core.
1251
01:28:23.075 --> 01:28:24.775
It has commentary in it.
1252
01:28:25.075 --> 01:28:27.095
I'm a big fan. It's dense
1253
01:28:27.580 --> 01:28:34.800
even though it's still a summary of what actually happens. We're not gonna go through point by point. We're just gonna sort of like pick at it.
1254
01:28:35.895 --> 01:28:38.475
Since they have one newsletter per week,
1255
01:28:39.815 --> 01:28:49.490
so I have the last 3 weeks that we missed sort of like listed here. I just figured we just sort of, like, glance over just because there's a few things that are worth glancing over.
1256
01:28:50.030 --> 01:28:54.755
And if you guys have comments or wanna take tangents on any of this stuff, be my guest.
1257
01:28:56.015 --> 01:28:56.915
Alright. So
1258
01:28:57.375 --> 01:28:58.755
this one is really cool.
1259
01:28:59.614 --> 01:29:00.755
I had added earlier
1260
01:29:01.100 --> 01:29:04.719
on the noteworthy part, but I moved it down because just to compress everything.
1261
01:29:05.340 --> 01:29:07.920
I'm pretty excited about this. So half aggregation
1262
01:29:09.074 --> 01:29:11.735
of BIP 3 40 signatures. So it's essentially,
1263
01:29:12.994 --> 01:29:13.735
half aggregation
1264
01:29:14.434 --> 01:29:15.815
of Schnorr signatures.
1265
01:29:17.150 --> 01:29:20.770
It was Jonas Nick, I think he says Nickler
1266
01:29:21.150 --> 01:29:22.130
on Twitter,
1267
01:29:22.910 --> 01:29:23.410
and
1268
01:29:24.990 --> 01:29:27.655
it's under block streams work.
1269
01:29:29.074 --> 01:29:34.375
This is this is kind of like a a huge deal because it's gonna bring a lot of privacy,
1270
01:29:34.920 --> 01:29:35.579
a lot
1271
01:29:35.880 --> 01:29:37.500
of efficiency in transactions.
1272
01:29:38.360 --> 01:29:39.659
It's still early work.
1273
01:29:41.320 --> 01:29:44.475
And actually the best way to describe it really is it's non interactive
1274
01:29:45.095 --> 01:29:46.635
half aggregation of signatures.
1275
01:29:47.095 --> 01:29:51.115
And one of the parts that I'm most excited about this is the non interactive part.
1276
01:29:53.199 --> 01:29:54.179
So, essentially,
1277
01:29:54.880 --> 01:29:58.500
interactive signatures require all the parties to essentially be,
1278
01:29:59.225 --> 01:30:01.085
for for lack of term, online
1279
01:30:01.625 --> 01:30:03.405
together at the same time,
1280
01:30:03.785 --> 01:30:04.285
resigning
1281
01:30:04.665 --> 01:30:05.725
each other's stuff,
1282
01:30:06.130 --> 01:30:08.790
which creates, like, huge UX problems.
1283
01:30:09.730 --> 01:30:11.910
It creates security issues.
1284
01:30:13.250 --> 01:30:14.630
It makes it for very,
1285
01:30:15.165 --> 01:30:18.545
a very hard thing to do in in in the real world.
1286
01:30:19.245 --> 01:30:27.510
And this solution removes the interactive part. So now each party can do their own bit of the signing by themselves in their own privacy
1287
01:30:27.810 --> 01:30:30.469
of their own, tinfoil hat environment.
1288
01:30:31.845 --> 01:30:36.185
And then the half aggregation part, maybe Justin can have some opinions, but,
1289
01:30:37.045 --> 01:30:40.985
essentially what they're doing here is they're aggregating signatures because Shor is linear.
1290
01:30:42.160 --> 01:30:48.900
So you can just put all the signatures together and make it look like a signal signature, which is not possible with the current
1291
01:30:50.385 --> 01:30:51.445
Bitcoin's back.
1292
01:30:51.824 --> 01:30:52.324
So,
1293
01:30:53.344 --> 01:30:55.605
this this is gonna open a lot of doors,
1294
01:30:55.985 --> 01:30:59.284
for MoonSig and other things like that that still don't have a back.
1295
01:31:00.370 --> 01:31:00.690
And,
1296
01:31:01.330 --> 01:31:02.050
this is,
1297
01:31:02.450 --> 01:31:03.190
it's a
1298
01:31:04.370 --> 01:31:05.750
very, very big,
1299
01:31:06.850 --> 01:31:08.710
improvement to Bitcoin itself,
1300
01:31:09.275 --> 01:31:17.615
even though it's gonna move at Bitcoin glacial pace. So even though we're excited, just don't get too excited to start using anytime soon.
1301
01:31:19.420 --> 01:31:24.320
1302
01:31:25.820 --> 01:31:28.159
does this sound like the signature would get gets bigger?
1303
01:31:28.995 --> 01:31:37.095
1304
01:31:37.475 --> 01:31:40.630
But if I remember right, I haven't been following
1305
01:31:41.170 --> 01:31:43.750
for a little while, like half the size of the original
1306
01:31:44.210 --> 01:31:44.710
1307
01:31:45.090 --> 01:31:45.980
1308
01:31:47.915 --> 01:31:52.974
I think so. But but the biggest issue is I don't think there is a
1309
01:31:53.275 --> 01:31:54.974
formal mousseg implementation
1310
01:31:55.434 --> 01:31:56.550
or spec yet.
1311
01:31:59.190 --> 01:32:03.929
I think there's just sort of, like, ideas and commentary. There's no actual Moosig.
1312
01:32:09.275 --> 01:32:15.775
1313
01:32:16.719 --> 01:32:17.219
secp256k1dashzkp.
1314
01:32:19.280 --> 01:32:39.940
It's not Yeah. Like, their testing grounds for stuff. Like, that's where Shmoor showed up a couple years ago, and then, now it moved over. So It's not just, I don't think it's Blockstream. I think that's just the the experimental version of Libs tech. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think there's I think the the the spec is pretty good for music too in my understanding. Like, stuff like frost and roast are still Right. Being,
1315
01:32:40.560 --> 01:32:43.460
that that allows it with with, like, k of n. Right?
1316
01:32:43.855 --> 01:32:50.915
So n of n, I think, is pretty well defined, but k of n is still is still they're still trying to figure out. And that's pretty heavily interactive, which sucks.
1317
01:32:51.534 --> 01:32:53.475
1318
01:32:53.840 --> 01:32:54.900
it's gonna be
1319
01:32:55.559 --> 01:32:56.059
nearly
1320
01:32:56.719 --> 01:32:57.219
impossible
1321
01:32:58.320 --> 01:33:01.780
or it's gonna be essentially server with server talking. Like,
1322
01:33:02.215 --> 01:33:05.035
1323
01:33:05.975 --> 01:33:06.875
1324
01:33:07.495 --> 01:33:17.420
essentially, you're gonna have to be connected in order to achieve the level of interactivity you need. So so that's why I was essentially pretty excited about the noninteractive part of of this solution,
1325
01:33:18.440 --> 01:33:20.220
which which works for
1326
01:33:20.885 --> 01:33:21.864
for cold storage.
1327
01:33:25.765 --> 01:33:32.090
So yeah. So there is that. This is this is dense stuff. So if you wanna, you know, go read more,
1328
01:33:32.790 --> 01:33:35.849
I have lots of links on my notes, and,
1329
01:33:36.469 --> 01:33:40.505
the OpTech guys do have more summary on it, if I remember right.
1330
01:33:41.465 --> 01:33:43.485
So so go read about that.
1331
01:33:44.585 --> 01:33:48.525
So that's that's the notable part that I wanted from the their last
1332
01:33:48.985 --> 01:33:49.485
newsletter.
1333
01:33:50.880 --> 01:33:52.340
Now from the one previous
1334
01:33:52.800 --> 01:33:54.340
to to a 107,
1335
01:33:57.515 --> 01:34:05.455
So they brought up the long term block reward funding, which I wanted to bring up just because the amount of noise on it. I still think that the emissions
1336
01:34:05.995 --> 01:34:06.495
is,
1337
01:34:09.989 --> 01:34:16.730
it it will cause more problems than it's worth. I mean, you could still debate if that's if
1338
01:34:17.385 --> 01:34:21.885
if reward issues are true or not, which I don't think they are, but it is debatable.
1339
01:34:22.824 --> 01:34:24.764
The solution around having
1340
01:34:26.170 --> 01:34:27.070
data emissions
1341
01:34:27.850 --> 01:34:29.230
is is a no go
1342
01:34:29.530 --> 01:34:31.710
because once you open the door,
1343
01:34:32.330 --> 01:34:35.230
who decides how much reward is enough reward?
1344
01:34:35.595 --> 01:34:38.255
And and that just essentially becomes a
1345
01:34:38.875 --> 01:34:40.735
a absolute pit of sorrow.
1346
01:34:42.610 --> 01:34:45.750
So I don't think you'll ever go there. My solution personally is just
1347
01:34:46.050 --> 01:34:50.310
decrease the block size, make scarcity higher on block space and problem resolve,
1348
01:34:50.835 --> 01:34:52.614
and we get more decentralization
1349
01:34:52.995 --> 01:34:53.975
with that too.
1350
01:34:55.875 --> 01:35:00.080
Guys, if you have an opinion on on on Telecommunications, now is the time.
1351
01:35:01.280 --> 01:35:03.440
1352
01:35:04.000 --> 01:35:06.020
it's just not on the table
1353
01:35:06.400 --> 01:35:07.140
as a
1354
01:35:07.585 --> 01:35:19.400
possible thing unless, like, the system has basically failed. You know, like, if Bitcoin just can't is getting massive, 200 block reorgs, and until stuff like that happens, I don't think I don't I don't see how this could ever get
1355
01:35:20.020 --> 01:35:27.845
1356
01:35:28.385 --> 01:35:32.930
And then besides that, there's really no reason for any kind of debate because
1357
01:35:33.469 --> 01:35:36.370
anyone can fork Bitcoin whenever the fuck they wanna fork Bitcoin.
1358
01:35:37.070 --> 01:35:44.685
And if you wanna fork and a tail emission, you can fucking do it, and we'll see how the market responds to that. And and this idea that
1359
01:35:45.065 --> 01:35:51.040
Bitcoin adds a tail emission is, in my point of is in my perspective is is the wrong framing.
1360
01:35:51.420 --> 01:35:52.320
Because if
1361
01:35:52.699 --> 01:35:58.320
there is a fork of Bitcoin with a tail emission if there's a fork of Bitcoin without a finite amount of Bitcoin,
1362
01:35:58.705 --> 01:36:08.610
there will always be the other chain, the existing chain, that doesn't have that in it. And there's pretty much zero situation that I could see
1363
01:36:08.989 --> 01:36:14.690
where where, you know, that that original chain doesn't, you know, win that fork war,
1364
01:36:15.310 --> 01:36:15.810
but
1365
01:36:16.735 --> 01:36:18.434
there's even less chance
1366
01:36:18.735 --> 01:36:32.150
that there would be, like, a complete wipeout and you just wouldn't have that other chain in addition to it. Someone would end up changing their algo. Some you know, their hashing algo or something like that. But I I would say that I actually if we're gonna keep talking about this,
1367
01:36:32.645 --> 01:36:40.905
I would love to see, some, you know, really, really wealthy backers of this tail emission idea so we could get a nice sizable
1368
01:36:41.630 --> 01:36:44.290
sizable dividend on that fork when it happens?
1369
01:36:45.230 --> 01:36:50.210
1370
01:36:50.735 --> 01:36:52.835
It's a I see it as a Bitcoin dividend.
1371
01:36:54.335 --> 01:36:54.815
So,
1372
01:36:55.215 --> 01:36:57.155
so I I am I totally
1373
01:36:57.614 --> 01:36:59.315
in favor of this.
1374
01:37:00.440 --> 01:37:05.980
I just have a feeling that, the dividend will be so low that it won't be worth our while because,
1375
01:37:06.360 --> 01:37:10.485
you know, ideally, you move the funds from your keys before you do that, so,
1376
01:37:11.125 --> 01:37:13.065
not not not worth the while.
1377
01:37:14.205 --> 01:37:16.264
You know, my dear friend Peter Todd
1378
01:37:17.160 --> 01:37:20.460
is probably bored at this moment, so he is championing,
1379
01:37:20.840 --> 01:37:21.580
daily missions.
1380
01:37:22.680 --> 01:37:26.380
Peter, I think you should go maybe climb a taller mountain.
1381
01:37:28.344 --> 01:37:29.405
Love you very much.
1382
01:37:32.425 --> 01:37:34.364
Now moving on to
1383
01:37:36.970 --> 01:37:39.710
okay. So there is a new regression tests,
1384
01:37:40.570 --> 01:37:44.270
for RPC. I think these are related to Taproot.
1385
01:37:46.025 --> 01:37:47.645
Oh, it's to help l two protocol
1386
01:37:48.185 --> 01:37:49.245
and other applications
1387
01:37:50.345 --> 01:37:52.445
who wanna use package relay on core.
1388
01:37:56.150 --> 01:37:56.550
See
1389
01:37:57.030 --> 01:38:00.410
so here's one thing I don't like. I think we brought up on the last episode.
1390
01:38:01.034 --> 01:38:01.534
Drama.
1391
01:38:05.434 --> 01:38:12.489
The the idea of making RBF not default. RBF should be default because double spend is possible in Bitcoin by default.
1392
01:38:13.190 --> 01:38:19.375
I so I like I like RBF to be the default because it's essentially just formalizing something you can do
1393
01:38:20.155 --> 01:38:22.175
regardless if people agree with you or not.
1394
01:38:25.970 --> 01:38:29.190
1395
01:38:29.570 --> 01:38:32.550
the standardness rules to allow you to do
1396
01:38:33.675 --> 01:38:34.655
0 conf transactions
1397
01:38:35.114 --> 01:38:36.335
easier. Right? That's
1398
01:38:37.034 --> 01:38:38.235
Yeah. But basically the only
1399
01:38:39.275 --> 01:38:44.869
It doesn't matter. It can suit people. Yeah. Exactly. That's a really bad It's a problem. That's a that's a really bad reason.
1400
01:38:45.969 --> 01:38:57.125
1401
01:38:59.020 --> 01:39:08.560
1402
01:39:10.415 --> 01:39:12.195
He calls he calls,
1403
01:39:12.815 --> 01:39:19.500
transactions that are in the mempool, like, you know, 0 confirmation transactions. He calls that layer 0, and then you hit layer 1,
1404
01:39:20.200 --> 01:39:21.260
once they're confirmed,
1405
01:39:21.800 --> 01:39:23.660
which I thought was interesting framing.
1406
01:39:24.200 --> 01:39:27.420
1407
01:39:28.074 --> 01:39:29.695
is essentially like Sheikoiner
1408
01:39:30.074 --> 01:39:31.934
mindset sipping through Bitcoin,
1409
01:39:32.795 --> 01:39:35.375
which does sipping through lightning a little too much.
1410
01:39:37.820 --> 01:39:41.360
It's like, sorry, like, the whole point of Bitcoin is finality.
1411
01:39:41.900 --> 01:39:46.160
Pre finality is not your fucking coins, so don't do anything with it.
1412
01:39:48.855 --> 01:39:49.355
Anyways,
1413
01:39:49.695 --> 01:39:50.195
it
1414
01:39:50.534 --> 01:39:54.554
it is a topic that annoys me because it's essentially rehashing the whole
1415
01:39:55.200 --> 01:39:58.340
b cash bullshit all over again for different reasons.
1416
01:40:02.245 --> 01:40:05.705
1417
01:40:06.245 --> 01:40:08.995
1418
01:40:09.360 --> 01:40:16.660
1419
01:40:17.605 --> 01:40:23.065
Because did you you mostly just you can mostly just go back, and you have the response already ready over there.
1420
01:40:23.844 --> 01:40:24.985
1421
01:40:25.390 --> 01:40:26.130
that essentially
1422
01:40:26.510 --> 01:40:27.010
searches
1423
01:40:27.390 --> 01:40:35.965
for the the the trending tweets of the day and then go finds tweets of mine from, say, 7 to 8 years ago minimum.
1424
01:40:36.745 --> 01:40:40.685
And it finds the correct response for that and it posts as a response
1425
01:40:42.040 --> 01:40:44.540
1426
01:40:45.400 --> 01:40:46.540
1427
01:40:47.639 --> 01:40:51.065
Where's okay. Fine. We're gonna put another bounty on bitcoin bounties.org.
1428
01:40:56.485 --> 01:40:56.985
Okay.
1429
01:40:57.980 --> 01:40:58.480
So
1430
01:40:59.580 --> 01:41:00.700
next is,
1431
01:41:01.100 --> 01:41:01.740
oh, so,
1432
01:41:02.380 --> 01:41:04.400
we have a a merge,
1433
01:41:04.940 --> 01:41:05.760
for adding
1434
01:41:07.735 --> 01:41:08.235
Taproot,
1435
01:41:09.095 --> 01:41:12.475
additional fields on PSPT, so PSPT evolving.
1436
01:41:14.590 --> 01:41:15.090
BDK
1437
01:41:16.510 --> 01:41:17.810
is setting up
1438
01:41:18.750 --> 01:41:21.330
in lock time of new transactions now.
1439
01:41:22.315 --> 01:41:23.695
Okay, so is that
1440
01:41:24.555 --> 01:41:26.895
a Centifree sniping solution. Okay,
1441
01:41:27.435 --> 01:41:27.935
yeah.
1442
01:41:28.929 --> 01:41:30.630
You guys have any opinions on that?
1443
01:41:31.969 --> 01:41:33.270
1444
01:41:33.809 --> 01:41:40.275
Yeah. I mean, it just it just basically says this is the like, if the current block time is act or block height is x, it just says, hey. I'm not allowed
1445
01:41:40.735 --> 01:41:43.235
to be mined in any block before x
1446
01:41:43.614 --> 01:41:48.230
just so just to discourage a minor from, like, doing an intentional reorg to to get some
1447
01:41:48.850 --> 01:41:52.310
some more fees, like, which is a valid like, this is kind of a valid
1448
01:41:52.610 --> 01:41:54.930
complaint in, like, a low fee environment as if if,
1449
01:41:55.845 --> 01:41:57.065
minor Yeah. Incentivized
1450
01:41:57.445 --> 01:41:58.585
to reorg a little.
1451
01:41:59.445 --> 01:42:02.745
1452
01:42:03.125 --> 01:42:04.985
I don't know. It's one of those things.
1453
01:42:06.110 --> 01:42:09.250
It's like one of those things. It's like, okay. Yeah. It's
1454
01:42:09.790 --> 01:42:13.330
cute, but I don't think it will do anything network wide.
1455
01:42:14.635 --> 01:42:17.055
Maybe if you became the center for most wallets.
1456
01:42:19.595 --> 01:42:29.560
1457
01:42:30.075 --> 01:42:33.775
1458
01:42:34.875 --> 01:42:36.815
1459
01:42:38.555 --> 01:42:39.055
1460
01:42:41.070 --> 01:42:44.450
The 206 which was the previous to the previous to the previous.
1461
01:42:45.070 --> 01:42:48.370
No. The previous to the previous. That's just 2 previous of previous.
1462
01:42:49.815 --> 01:42:55.675
Okay. What is the largest, multisig quorum currently possible? Andrew Chow, did some work on that.
1463
01:42:56.090 --> 01:43:03.150
If I remember right, for p 2 sh is 12 out of 12. At least we managed to do that on quinquaint.com
1464
01:43:03.850 --> 01:43:04.350
way
1465
01:43:04.650 --> 01:43:05.710
back in the day.
1466
01:43:06.395 --> 01:43:07.695
I don't know what is,
1467
01:43:09.275 --> 01:43:10.655
what is possible now.
1468
01:43:11.435 --> 01:43:14.095
1469
01:43:14.510 --> 01:43:16.610
1470
01:43:18.990 --> 01:43:21.890
1471
01:43:23.355 --> 01:43:25.135
You wouldn't support that many signatures.
1472
01:43:25.515 --> 01:43:33.840
So I think we're essentially what we're gonna write because see, I think the the main problem is is an implementation problem, not a network problem.
1473
01:43:37.100 --> 01:43:39.680
So I think, essentially, the the the bottleneck
1474
01:43:39.985 --> 01:43:44.405
is always gonna be just the transaction size that will fit the network. That's it. Yeah.
1475
01:43:45.505 --> 01:43:47.525
Are you're essentially gonna fill a whole block.
1476
01:43:51.220 --> 01:43:53.000
And CodeCard can sign that now.
1477
01:43:53.300 --> 01:44:03.315
1478
01:44:03.935 --> 01:44:06.610
1479
01:44:07.389 --> 01:44:12.929
pre taproot is that it's it's quadratic. Right? So the size of the transaction is exponential.
1480
01:44:13.995 --> 01:44:14.495
1481
01:44:15.115 --> 01:44:18.415
1482
01:44:19.195 --> 01:44:20.655
but Shmoor, it won't matter.
1483
01:44:21.355 --> 01:44:22.175
You can make
1484
01:44:22.570 --> 01:44:35.085
1485
01:44:35.565 --> 01:44:37.585
liquid could do a 100 functionaries,
1486
01:44:37.965 --> 01:44:41.230
for example. Now it's it's basically the rate limited by how many multisig
1487
01:44:41.770 --> 01:44:43.070
people can be in a multisig.
1488
01:44:43.690 --> 01:44:50.825
So, you know, that would be kind of an interesting trust model for, you know, if you had, like, a 100 you know, a whole a whole bunch of them, a whole bunch of people. Harder to,
1489
01:44:51.705 --> 01:44:53.165
organize some sort of a
1490
01:44:53.785 --> 01:45:00.860
1491
01:45:01.239 --> 01:45:16.315
1492
01:45:16.690 --> 01:45:19.190
like, this will this this stuff will be really interesting.
1493
01:45:21.330 --> 01:45:23.429
1494
01:45:23.905 --> 01:45:24.805
This is success.
1495
01:45:25.425 --> 01:45:32.645
I can see him sitting, talking to somebody else in the studio. No. We have like, Bitcoin Park is vibes are high right now.
1496
01:45:33.550 --> 01:45:41.135
1497
01:45:42.255 --> 01:45:44.034
But I'm also I'm also
1498
01:45:44.335 --> 01:45:51.074
a crazy person. So right after this 2 hour rip, I'm gonna be doing another 2 hour rip on Ciel Dispatch. So,
1499
01:45:51.920 --> 01:46:02.994
a couple of those a couple of those guests in here a couple of those guests are in here, and they can't hear. 1 of them can hear because he's got headphones on, but the other one can't hear. And he's just sitting there just wondering
1500
01:46:03.454 --> 01:46:07.795
what the fuck NVK is talking about for so long. So I'm just trying to keep him updated on timing.
1501
01:46:09.400 --> 01:46:12.780
1502
01:46:13.240 --> 01:46:14.540
episode ever
1503
01:46:15.160 --> 01:46:16.620
Yeah. Of all Bitcoin.
1504
01:46:17.595 --> 01:46:22.175
1505
01:46:22.955 --> 01:46:24.175
1506
01:46:24.949 --> 01:46:27.849
1507
01:46:29.030 --> 01:46:31.929
1508
01:46:33.715 --> 01:46:35.974
Okay. We're almost done with the show guys.
1509
01:46:36.755 --> 01:46:42.600
Now, we're just gonna list a few Bitcoin events here because, it would be nice for them to be to get some notability.
1510
01:46:43.140 --> 01:46:47.080
So there is the ABDC Bitcoin Design Meetup in Austin.
1511
01:46:47.460 --> 01:46:49.240
I I don't know if it already happened.
1512
01:46:50.165 --> 01:46:52.905
1513
01:46:53.525 --> 01:46:59.830
1514
01:47:00.850 --> 01:47:01.830
1515
01:47:03.410 --> 01:47:06.395
helping spearhead this thing with Paul Miller, future Paul,
1516
01:47:07.755 --> 01:47:10.974
and they're really excited about it. I'm pretty excited about the concept.
1517
01:47:12.540 --> 01:47:14.480
Basically trying to, you know,
1518
01:47:15.020 --> 01:47:20.400
build the same type of communities that we're seeing in Austin with the dev space, but in the design space instead.
1519
01:47:21.185 --> 01:47:22.165
One funny thing,
1520
01:47:22.665 --> 01:47:26.565
you know, Carr became producer of of Tales from the Crypt,
1521
01:47:27.185 --> 01:47:28.245
which is blatant,
1522
01:47:28.940 --> 01:47:36.719
trademark infringement on the HBO show. So, like, every single car project now is just all play off. Like,
1523
01:47:37.020 --> 01:47:37.520
ABDC
1524
01:47:38.455 --> 01:47:40.875
is even the logo looks like the band.
1525
01:47:41.415 --> 01:47:42.875
He has, like, Pleb Broadcasting
1526
01:47:43.255 --> 01:47:50.530
Service is one of them. Stacker News Live with initials SNL. Like, so he he got completely inspired by Marty for the wrong reasons.
1527
01:47:50.909 --> 01:48:02.695
And I just hope I hope he'd I hope he sees a lot of success with it, but I hope that doesn't blow back on him on the trademark side. I love that dude, though. My car is great. His satire is okay. Yeah. He he'll be fine.
1528
01:48:04.250 --> 01:48:12.030
1529
01:48:12.575 --> 01:48:14.195
1530
01:48:14.575 --> 01:48:15.555
which is unfortunate.
1531
01:48:16.575 --> 01:48:21.155
But I do think they're, you know, different events. One's in Europe, one's in
1532
01:48:21.860 --> 01:48:22.679
Is that Meet
1533
01:48:23.260 --> 01:48:23.760
America?
1534
01:48:24.500 --> 01:48:25.639
It's it's October.
1535
01:48:26.420 --> 01:48:27.539
I wanna say
1536
01:48:28.659 --> 01:48:32.605
I'm gonna get shit for this, if I get the dates wrong. I think it's October
1537
01:48:33.225 --> 01:48:35.804
12 through 14th is what I wanna say.
1538
01:48:36.265 --> 01:48:39.485
1539
01:48:39.830 --> 01:48:40.570
Conference organizers.
1540
01:48:41.349 --> 01:48:41.849
Okay?
1541
01:48:42.550 --> 01:48:44.330
Listen. Do your conferences
1542
01:48:44.869 --> 01:48:46.250
in the North American
1543
01:48:46.949 --> 01:48:47.449
winter.
1544
01:48:48.965 --> 01:48:49.465
So
1545
01:48:50.085 --> 01:48:50.585
essentially
1546
01:48:50.965 --> 01:48:52.985
starting post my duck hunt trip,
1547
01:48:53.925 --> 01:48:55.704
so after mid
1548
01:48:56.164 --> 01:48:56.664
November,
1549
01:48:58.150 --> 01:48:59.449
all the way to,
1550
01:49:00.710 --> 01:49:01.370
say, March.
1551
01:49:01.910 --> 01:49:03.850
Essentially, while the ice is frozen,
1552
01:49:05.425 --> 01:49:07.605
it's it's it's good timing for me.
1553
01:49:07.985 --> 01:49:09.685