Aug. 22, 2022
Bitcoin Magazine Live Interview: "The Optimistic Take on Bitcoin with Odell"
Had the pleasure of joining P & Q from Bitcoin Magazine on their show. We ripped it in person in my studio.
Video Version: https://youtu.be/gpWEyyS7bKo
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00:00 - Bitcoin Park and its community initiative
06:06 - Merchant adoption of Bitcoin in the past
19:59 - The importance of sustainable and high-quality food
36:09 - Discussion about bugs and eating lobster
36:44 - Conversation about data privacy and surveillance
40:12 - Discussion about the normalization of surveillance cameras
01:15:56 - Experience programming for Bitcoin 2022
01:19:03 - Importance of critically evaluating information
01:31:09 - Onboarding newcomers to Bitcoin
01:55:38 - The value of time and exchanging time for goods and services
01:56:27 - Bitcoin as the embodiment of the value of time
01:57:19 - The importance of valuing time and attention
01:58:10 - The analogy between climbing Mount Everest and KYC in Bitcoin
02:01:02 - Bitcoin as hope, time, and oxygen
02:02:00 - Discussion about movies and books
02:03:02 - Promotion of the Bitcoin Magazine conference
02:04:47 - Closing remarks and outro
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NOTE
Transcription provided by Podhome.fm
Created: 3/17/2024 4:23:36 PM
Duration: 7660.643
Channels: 1
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So
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Welcome to my studio.
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It's gorgeous.
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Let's let's talk Bitcoin Park for a second because this is
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an absurd thing. Is it? Like, this is just SoHo House for Bitcoin or something.
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It's better than SoHo House though. Right? Like, is that was that an offensive statement? No. No. No. I meant I meant it as a compliment to you guys. Like, what you guys are trying to build here is truly remarkable. I mean, this
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double house situation.
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So we yeah. We yeah. I mean, we joke around being, like, similar to Soho House and that
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you have memberships and
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you have private spaces. You can work. You can meet.
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You can collaborate.
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We can podcast. Party. You can podcast. We have podcast studios all over.
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I think the big difference with between us and and Soho House, the way I think about Bitcoin Park is that Bitcoin Park is really a community initiative.
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So it's primarily for
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supporting Bitcoin and grassroots Bitcoin adoption and supporting the local community in the area,
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rather than,
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like, a massively profitable global business.
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Fair. So, like, breakeven or even if Rob's just bleeding a little bit, we're good with that? No. We can,
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you know,
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incentives are good. Like, it'd be nice to have a nice sustainable profit at the park, obviously.
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I'm not pretending it's like a nonprofit initiative. But,
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at its core at its core, it's a community initiative.
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We're gonna have dev workshops here. We're right next to the 2 schools.
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The 2 colleges, Vanderbilt and Belmont. We're, like, 2 blocks away from each.
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Lot of workshops, education,
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private events, public events, the meetup,
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bring in local businesses to
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sell their wares for Bitcoin. I mean, we had a cocktail bar here accepting Bitcoin,
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family coffee shops, stuff like that.
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When you say family coffee shop, what does that mean? Literally, the whole family works there. So it's a it's a separate business from the Des Moines Park?
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Yeah. So there's there's 3 local coffee shops that we've been working with, and we have,
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you know so I like to call we have 2 buildings here. Right? I like to call it the campus. Right? The Bitcoin Park campus.
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In the other building, there's a fully functioning coffee shop that just, like, came with the property.
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So we just stumbled into this coffee shop with a full espresso machine. Like, that's a really expensive espresso machine. It's like a $15,000 espresso. Wait. They they just left the espresso machine behind? No. No. They fucking bought it as part of the building. It's, like, included. It's in it was included in the deal. They they wanted
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to leave us as many things as bought. Like, these chairs we're sitting on were left with with from the previous tenants.
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This table we brought, but it's, like, one of the few things we actually brought to the park.
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It was in Rod's garage previously.
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But, anyway, we had a fully functioning coffee shop.
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But, like, we're not trying to run a coffee business, but we enjoy coffee. So what do we what do we decide to do? We reached out to 3 different local coffee shops, all family owned operations.
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They come in. They man the coffee shop during our events. They supply us bags of coffee for throughout the week when members are here, and they're working and whatnot.
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And one of the families
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is straight up, they have, you know,
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they have they their children run the whole operation. They roast the beans. They do everything.
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And
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none of these coffee shops were Bitcoiners ahead of time.
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So they came in. We're like, we just wanna support local business. We have this new money called Bitcoin,
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and we got them hooked up to accept Bitcoin, and and now they're slowly getting orange filled.
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It's pretty cool. That's epic. Yeah. You guys are
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fulfilling the mission of Bitcoin Park.
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The one you just learned about 30 seconds ago Yes. In this conversation. Yes. Got it. Almost as if he curated that story to fulfill and come full circle from the mission he shared originally.
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So, like, back in the day, we had
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a lot of these, like, Bitcoin embassies, like, in 2014 and stuff pop up all around the world.
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And a lot of them just weren't sustainable. They didn't, like, survive. What what like, where was an embassy? What did it have? Like,
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I was not in Bitcoin in 2014. I was in So we had one in New York, you know, that I wasn't involved with, but that existed in New York. And they had, like, an ATM. They had hardware wallets on display, stuff like that.
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But it was mostly just a storefront.
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Interesting. They had these things called,
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I forgot what they called it, but it was,
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certain days you could go there and you could trade Bitcoin peer to peer. They had, like, a little stand. Someone would stand up there and they would, like, shout orders, like, like, the pit. Wait. Are you serious? Yeah. That's incredible. Wait. Was this, like, a LARP? Like but a LARP in the best possible way. Like, people would literally stand in the pit and be like,
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and then I don't know. I was never there for it, but I I knew about it. It was it was all the way downtown Wall Street. And I don't know if peep if you guys know New York, but, like, if Mhmm. I had no reason to ever really be in that area.
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It's got it's kinda like a whole separate part of the city. I'm gonna choose to interpret that as preempted.
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Exactly how it went. But there was one in Montreal that I went to that the bull Bitcoin guys,
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before bull Bitcoin existed, we're running like Francis is running that one. I think it still exists.
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The Montreal one was interesting because when I was
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it must have been
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2014 or 2015.
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We were at a wedding in Montreal with my family,
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and they at that point, they thought I was just a crazy young kid that was into this, you know, fake money
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on the Internet. And they saw, like, the Bitcoin storefront.
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And, like, that was what gave it credibility. They were like, they were like, oh, he's not crazy. I was like, oh, thanks, ma. Yeah. Like, you we like, you didn't even anyone could open a storefront. Like, how did that how did that create the credibility? You I mean, you could have literally just paid someone ahead of time. They're like, yo, just put up signage in front of this for 24 hours. But, anyway, my point is it's not really a new idea, but we are seeing a resurgence in it. And we're also seeing a resurgence in the idea of merchants accepting Bitcoin, and both were kind of false starts in 2014, 2015.
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And I think this time, we actually have some real momentum. And I think with the park, what's really key is that that we do have, you know, this a more sustainable model, which is, you know, annual dues for a set amount of members, only a 100 members.
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And they they make the park sustainable. And, also, just
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this bear market is different than all the other bear markets. There's there's still a lot of sustained interest. You know? You're actually able
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to, you know, run one of these things without completely bleeding money.
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I wanna unpack,
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you know, that idea that it was a false start.
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So the last time you saw transactions happening as merchants started adopting.
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And was what was the sentiment then
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throughout
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Bitcoin, Twitter, throughout just Bitcoin in general,
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was that the moment where
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it was over exuberance
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and not a lot of humility and work being done? Or were there just mistakes being made, bad attempts,
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poor projects
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that led to the ultimate failure. So I Wait. Before you answer that, because I know our audience is desperate to know, what were you wearing
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when this happened?
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Who were you wearing, I should say? And what what year was this?
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When I walked walked past Montreal.
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Sure. I mean, I I I guess when you as you recount this story, please let us know whether you were wearing, like, Louis Vuitton. Definitely need a hat update. Like, walk me through your hat each time. I have no idea what I was wearing.
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He's lying. I plead the 5th. Alright.
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Alright.
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But,
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no. I mean, the difference with the merchant adoption
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back then was it was it was mostly BitPay,
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which,
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you know, had made horrible decisions as a company since then,
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to say the least. It was mostly BitPay signing up like big names. So they would sign up like AT and T, and they'd be like, AT and T accepts Bitcoin. And everyone on Twitter and Reddit would go crazy. Reddit was bigger back then. Bitcoin Talk, IRC.
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You know, the channels were a little bit different. Bitcoin Twitter was didn't really get off the ground hard until, like, 2017, but it existed.
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And, like, people would get super, super fucking excited about this new major corp accepting Bitcoin.
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But, like, the corp wasn't really accepting Bitcoin. They were just
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integrating BitPay and then receiving dollars on the back end, and BitPay was presumably, you know, giving them some kind of sweetheart deal to get it because the press releases were good for BitPay,
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perceived good for Bitcoin.
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So there was no real buy in from the corpse, and they weren't holding Bitcoin. They were just immediately converting it to Fiat.
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Another issue
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that I
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think, another issue is we obviously didn't have lightning.
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And, you know, the lightning privacy discussion is very nuanced discussion. Like, it's not it shouldn't be considered like a private privacy
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panacea. Like, it's not a perfect solution.
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But on the sender side, when you're sending with lightning, you do get some
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all things equal, you get some privacy improvements.
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Specifically, it's hard for the recipient to know, you know, which Bitcoin funded that transaction.
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So you don't have that liability that's attached,
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that data liability, that trail of Bitcoin history that's attached to it. So if you notice,
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a lot of the newcomers I mean, obviously, we have BTC pay service since then, which is massive. I mean, we have a sovereign way for merchants to accept Bitcoin and hold Bitcoin.
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But if you see the newcomers like Ibex and Strike,
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they're going lightning only. They're not accepting on chain. And because they're not accepting on chain, they don't have to deal with situations of you not paying the right amount. They don't have to do deal with situations where blocks are full and the confirmation isn't happening right away. They don't have to deal with situations where
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they might feel compelled to use a chain surveillance tool because they have this whole history there.
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So I think
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from that side,
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you know, lightning being at and, obviously, like, lightning is not perfect. I think there's still a lot of work to be done. But on that side, it it really sets us up in a more positive foundation. But on top of the whole thing, really should be,
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I wanna see merchants
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accept Bitcoin and hold Bitcoin.
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Ideally, I wanna see them do it in a completely sovereign way.
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But even if they use something like Ibex or OpenNode,
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hold the Bitcoin afterwards. Hold a portion of the Bitcoin afterwards.
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And in that way,
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I know me personally, like, I'd be more likely to spend at a merchant
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that is partaking in the in the Bitcoin circular pot economy. They're actually holding Bitcoin. They're using Bitcoin to to buy their their goods that they need.
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And I think that's the difference. The difference here is
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there's a real push towards this circular economy
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rather than
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immediate conversion to fiat by Mega Corp. So Microsoft added Bitcoin support.
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They didn't really. You know? They were just
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BetPay was facilitating us to market, you know,
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just sell our sell our coin right at time of purchase. Boom. Done.
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So going in that route a little bit further,
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I wanna sort of hear your experience as somebody who's been deeply associated with the space for so long.
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We're in a bear market right now
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and it feels very different from the bear market last cycle.
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Which is your first bear market?
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Last cycle was my first bear. I'm just trying to mind my p's and q's.
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Fair enough. Fair enough. I'll tell you which block my first pie was on.
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Jesus Christ. You're
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you're you're everyone listening. Don't do that.
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So fucking queue is over here. Like, look. This is how much Bitcoin I own. I use a single secret wallet. I use I use this I use this hardware wallet. I use this desktop wallet. Don't do that. For the listeners, never fucking do that. Do not tell anybody
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what you do because it opens you up
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and creates larger attack surface. What Pia is trying to say is when he gets kidnapped and tortured, he will give up my UTXO because because I gave it to him for his 1 night.
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So Yes. Also that. But I I guess, like,
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I'm just very surprised
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how
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much,
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like, fervor and interest there
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is in in this cycle even as we are in a bear market. And you mentioned lightning. You mentioned having a a large aspect of that. But I'm curious if you have thoughts just in terms of the,
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kind of the cultural
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milieu that's that we exist in right now and how that's different from the last cycle as well. Well, I first of all, I'm a strong believer in the the 4 year having cycle.
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It's crazy because it's planned. Everyone knows it's gonna happen,
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but it's still not priced in appropriately. Like, it just
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for whatever reason, like, people are fucking idiots.
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You know? I I kind of believe the concept of if we have truly free markets, they should be efficient. They should price in everything instantly
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or theoretically instantly, but it just doesn't happen for whatever reason. And maybe I I I'm I'm kind of a believer that
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as we go further along in the Bitcoin adoption cycle,
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the overall cycle,
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maybe it does start to get more efficient and more priced in just because
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there is this concern that happens every time we have a having that, they're mining death spiral. Will Bitcoin survive the having, you know, all this other stuff? And as time goes on,
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obviously, people's conviction in Bitcoin grows and their confidence in Bitcoin grows. So that should edge out to a degree.
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I think, first of all, obviously,
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every cycle, more people adopt Bitcoin. So we just have a net absolute number of more Bitcoiners,
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period.
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I think that number just goes up into the right always pretty much. You know? Obviously, it'll go up and down short term, but long term is just constant adoption increase. Right?
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So we have that. The second thing is this is not a typical Bitcoin bear market. This is the first Bitcoin bear market
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that exists in a global macro crisis bear market recession type of scenario. Like, we've been in the most
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you know, we've been in in arguably the the longest, hardest,
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strongest bull market in human history on the macro side
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in Bitcoin's existence.
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And this is the first time we've had a bear market where we've not been in that situation. So regardless of your views, if we're in an all out recession,
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if we're in a macro downtrend, whatever it is, we're clearly not in the kind of raging bull that we've been in on a macro side for however long because of money printing, whatnot.
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So that's the second reason. And I I think I think what happens is you you combine the 2 of those. Right? You have
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adoption combined with the fact that we're in, like, a macro crisis mode,
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and it comes down to okay. Like, okay. My Bitcoin holdings are down. But, like,
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if you hold Netflix, that's, like, down 80% or something crazy. I don't know the exact numbers. Like, Apple's down. Google's down.
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Twitter's down. Like, everything's fucking down. Real estate's like, people are getting scared on real estate.
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And at the at the same time, we have all these inflation
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concerns. We have all these other concerns. So when you have all these concerns, it's like, okay. Bitcoin is hope. To me, Bitcoin has always been hope. Right? It's something I'm optimistic about. It's something I'm positive about.
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It's it's something that's good for our future.
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Right? So when you have all this disaster and crisis and bullshit
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surrounding you and then Bitcoin is that light, then, of course, people are still gonna be interested when the price is down in this situation. Right? But there's definitely you definitely see a downtick
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in terms
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of the amount of people active in the space compared to maybe 6 months ago or something like that. Absolutely. Like, there's a significant
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there's a significant
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drop. But the the the thing is is, like, the people that
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people that stick around during these moments
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and they don't actually have to be active. If they're just passively stacking,
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like, that works just as well. But the people that are are still focused on improving their Bitcoin situation, accumulating Bitcoin, like, those are the people that end up doing the best or the people that stay around during these times.
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Seen it time and time again.
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You're an old ass man. Old old ass man. Yeah. No one's older than you, though.
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Okay.
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No one's older than p. That that's what I'm saying. Yeah. But There's plenty of people older than me. Yeah. I mean, I I'll touch on that. Like,
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it doesn't matter what time you when you come into Bitcoin, you'll always think you're late.
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And I'll I'll borrow from someone else. I forget who said this, but
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the meme, we're still early.
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That continues until people are mostly earning Bitcoin rather than buying Bitcoin. If you're buying Bitcoin, you're early. Yeah. I think that's the I think that is such an important point. And even as we were heading up to, you know, 69
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k.
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Nice.
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Is
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people would would come in and they'd be like, hey. Like, I you know, it's too late. I haven't bought enough or I don't have enough or I shouldn't be buying Bitcoin. And you're absolutely right that until everyone is being paid in Bitcoin, until the expectation
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is you're paid in Bitcoin. And when you're paid in US dollars, it's like,
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fuck man. Like, I got this job that for whatever reason, like, won't pay me in Bitcoin until we reach that point.
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We're still early. So let me ask you guys this. Does
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the collective get paid in Bitcoin first, or do we start to price our goods in Bitcoin first?
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Chicken or egg.
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So unit of account versus medium of exchange? Yes.
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I think unit of account first.
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I don't know.
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It's definitely not my
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like, Murad has that great chart. Where does Murad where does Murad put it? I'm just I think I think they kind of happen at the same time.
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It kinda happened at the same time, but in my mind, unit of account comes first just because
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I'm
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earning mostly Bitcoin right now, but I'm not earning
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a 100% of Bitcoin.
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And Bitcoin's been my unit of account for a while.
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Like, I price everything. Everything's priced in Bitcoin. Right.
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But, I mean,
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I I I'm more meaning in the sense of, like, mass adoption. Like, when is it Right. But so, like, I'm maybe I'm a microcosm
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of I'm a sample size of 1 of the mass. Right.
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So how how would And I take its unit of account first.
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Okay.
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But it probably isn't. I guess That's our answer. I I guess it probably isn't. I mean, some people some people, like I mean, if you get paid in Bitcoin or whatever,
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a lot of people that get paid in Bitcoin,
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including myself right now,
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my actual
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like, the contract is priced in dollars, and it's the Bitcoin at the current US price. So that would point to the other way. Yeah. I don't know. There's there's definitely someone who's gonna be listening to this. It's like, Matt, you're just completely wrong. And I just I felt like it was a 100% gotcha question. So whoever you are, you're right.
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I'm wrong. Bitcoin is gonna become the money of the world regardless. I don't really care which one comes first.
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But I think we all agree
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that,
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pretty much most people agree that the store value comes first. That Bitcoin is treated as,
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a wealth preserving, wealth accrual mechanism before it's considered medium of exchange or unit of account.
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Okay. So
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it was a very eloquent answer.
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I wanna shift topics and talk about
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the
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specifically around food. I know that you've been,
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like, you know, significantly involved in a beef initiative. You've been doing some amazing work.
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This is not water, by the way. This is mezcal. That's right. That's right. Who who who brought the mezcal? Oh, we do have water too.
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I think Hugh brought the mezcal. Piece of shit.
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He brought the mezcal. I don't drink, so this is gonna be a really fun
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mezcal artist and all. You want water? Yeah. Can I have water? We're having our our producers is giving us water right now. Thank you. Hello. The incredible,
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the only,
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the undeniable
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mills.
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That burned so good. This is Fiji Water. It was collected by orphans.
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Their tiny hands can fit between the rocks. Okay. I sidetracked you. What was your question?
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I wasn't
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done. Orphans.
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Orphans mine the best water and also the best Bitcoin. Okay. So here's my question.
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There's this there's a level of kind of
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fascination with the food supply around Bitcoin. Alright. Right? So he here's my question.
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There's a level of hypocrisy
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significant amount of hypocrisy that exists within Bitcoin around food.
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I have been
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shocked.
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Nay,
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appalled
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that people are not more willing to adopt
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insects
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as a food source. Look, here's the deal. Here's the deal.
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I feel like there this is actually a serious question. I feel like there is this
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anti insect
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focus
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because
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the WEF which fuck those people
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had been trying to push insects as a food source for very long. I'm so sorry. They like Pete discovered that he can, like, own the niche of the pro insect,
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Bitcoiner? No. Look. Here's the deal. Look. Look. He's like, no one else is doing it right now. He's wide open for the taking. Hey, man. No. I gotta be the socialist quoiter. He's we're we're gonna we're gonna cut all this out. Look. He he We're definitely not cutting this out. Yeah. And we're not cutting this out. It all stays. You know? This all stays.
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Why do you think there is such pushback against the idea of insect protein
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as a food source? And the I say this within the context of things like lobster, crab
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used to be considered garbage food. Yeah. They would, like, feed that to the slaves and Exactly. And for very good reason. Of the cows. Lobsters and crabs, they literally eat human shit off of the ocean floor in the bays that humans And shrimp. I mean, this is just anti shellfish that doesn't No. No. No. It's pro bug. You No. No. Look. Don't this is the man who eat dog food live on air. That was disgusting. It was so good. It was so good. Okay. So so here's my take.
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I'm a pragmatic person.
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I believe everyone should have the freedom to choose whatever
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they want to put in their body.
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I think a lot of the concerns over this insect
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food
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thing is that it's being almost
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Being forced. It's it's being prepared to be forced upon people. 100%. And I think it will be forced on lower class people. Just like lobster was. So
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just yeah. So I
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I think
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what I want to see is I wanna see as many people as possible have
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access
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to
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good food, good nutritious food,
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and have choice about what they actually consume.
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And I think Bitcoin as a tool of individual empowerment
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on the wealth
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and
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spending side
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is key to that
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plan, but also
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like, a key key to that mission, but also is supporting local
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family farms and ranches that are doing proper sustainable practices, doing regenerative agriculture. They're not introducing chemicals to their soil and to their to their to their animals.
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So you actually have, like, really good quality food. And we've gone away from that. Like, the the fiat incentives, the overregulation
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has resulted in this corruption of our food supply where the majority of food that people eat is just absolute fucking garbage.
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Now
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where it looks like we're going is we're gonna have similar absolute garbage. It's just gonna be
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built with bug protein.
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Right? And I and what I would say is we should just move away from the absolute garbage period.
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When is when is this episode going up?
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This is a perfect time to show the beef initiative that's gonna be in Georgia.
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It's gonna be,
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in Bluffton, Georgia at White Oak Pastures, which are one of the largest regenerative agriculture,
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ranches operations in the country.
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September,
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like, the 2nd week of September.
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And if you go to beefinitiative.com,
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you can go to that, and I recommend,
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people consider it. I went to the beef initiative,
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in Colorado. It was an absolutely special experience.
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It was really cool. You got to meet all these family ranchers.
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We taught them something about Bitcoin. They taught us about food and ranching.
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It was a true honor to participate in that. It's a really cool
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cool movement.
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Basically, empowering the rancher, empowering the consumer, bringing them together. I think if I was gonna distill beef initiative in one word, it'd be coordination.
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Just bringing empowered individuals together, coordinating them,
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and helping, you know, just neighbors helping neighbors. It's just really fucking cool. And doing that. And
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you can just have fun eating your bug protein. But I'll just I'll just No. No. Me and my family will consume high quality
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high quality animal protein. As someone who has I'm gonna come over for dinner at the Odell. Yeah. Not not peas. As someone who has,
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been lucky enough to
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benefit from the generosity of the Odell's,
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I will continue to eat your incredible,
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high quality
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beef initiative protein.
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But you've you actually have kind of
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succinctly
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given me an answer, which is the pushback is not based
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on
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the Do you ever watch that movie
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where they have the train and they're going around Yeah. In the ice age or whatever? Yeah. Yeah. A 100%. And, like, the rich people are eating the good stuff. And then And then it's like all the poors are eating bug protein. And they don't know they're eating bug protein until they revolt. And then they see it, and then they revolt even harder. Right? 100%. That's kind of where we're going. No. What no. No. But but I think just
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I think you make a really good point, which is the the power or the the thing that is so compelling about the beef initiative
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is it's
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connecting
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consumers of high quality protein
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directly with the producers of high quality protein and and disintermediating
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that process. Because right now, in America, like, if you're buying
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protein, if you're buying meat
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in a in a in most stores Supermarket. Yeah. In a supermarket,
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You it has gone through so many fucked up levels of,
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like, this just Byzantine production process,
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and it's not high quality protein. And so I think that the They'll, like, take the cow in America. They'll, like, ship it to China for processing. Like, ship it back. Exactly. Even, like, the
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and we see this so much in our society
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is even things like the,
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butcher's box, right, which is supposedly targeted at people that care more about,
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their food their food supply and whatnot. Like, that comes from fucking Australia.
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Like, they make it seem like artisanal,
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you know, quality beef or whatever. But it's like, those are Australian cows
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shipped to your door and packaged and shipped to your door. And they are super fresh when you get them 6 weeks later.
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That was me being facetious. Yeah. Exactly. But I I I would I would
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there's something to be said about, you know, we are trying to build a robust system in Bitcoin. Right?
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A robust system
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that
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you can rely on, and and you can have confidence building,
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you know, building your future with your family on this system. Right? And when we look at all of our other systems, we have a, you know,
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a corruption of systems
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throughout our whole lives. And one of the key ones is is our food our food supply
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and how we get food and how we judge which food is good and and and and and how we consume that food.
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And a very easy way
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of improving that situation is to get back to the basics,
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have sustainable local economies.
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Right? And we go back to the circular economy. So
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beef initiative is really interesting because Bitcoin is an aspect there. Like, we are
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helping provide. So I'm more integral in the beef initiative process because,
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I mean, we have mills here. Like, we we're creating the Tennessee beef initiative. Right? So they have the Texas beef initiative. Tennessee beef initiative is gonna be the first one outside of Texas.
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But the goal is for this to be global.
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I'd like, as you know, like like I said, there's gonna be a Georgia event.
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So, like, I've been getting I've been getting heavily involved, and one of the key things is is so not only does the beef initiative provide education and coordination, but there's also a full tech stack. Because a lot of these ranchers, like,
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they understand personal responsibility.
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They understand
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the need,
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for tools that protect them.
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But they have a full time job, and that's running the farm. Right? And they don't know how to set up a website or accept payments or ship out things.
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So there's a full tech stack that's provided that not only lets them accept Bitcoin.
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That's optional. It also lets them accept fiat. Right? It gives them that full direct to consumer stack. And then on top of that, you also have the exposure if they choose to join the beef initiative
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and be a part of this, you know, global community that cares about
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their food reliability and their food quality.
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Makes sense. I'm sold. What I'm hearing is that
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when I have my insect milk farm
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You will have other Bitcoiners who wanna eat insect milk, and you will have your own circular economy. And the Odell's, the Q's, the mills,
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we will have our own circular economy where we trade, buy, eat, and sell beef. I like to think that all of
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Q's family, their first and last name is Q, so they're just the Q.
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Yeah. 100%. 100%. No. No. That that I'll just say Yeah. That'd be just great to go over for dinner. It's like, the queues, they're so nice. You know, they're here.
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Papa q,
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mama q, brother q. Q1, q3,
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q4. Yeah. Yeah. Now all the looking aside that that I that I'm seeing is,
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yeah. The idea of disintermediating food production. I mean, you're wrong about the insect thing.
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I will not be silenced. I mean But it's not as I would say that, you know, like, Bitcoin is we have a very diverse group of stakeholders.
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Bitcoiners have all walks in lives. I mean, we have vegan Bitcoiners. Right? Like, it's not like all Bitcoiners
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are necessarily pro beef. But I think I think most Bitcoiners are
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pro quality food that's not, you know, corrupted by bullshit. So I wanna unpack that because
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I fully support
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the seed oil disrespectors
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and everyone who is anti seed oil. Very necessary.
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We're just this anti seed oil community that also likes Bitcoin. Okay. Continue. But no. No. And there's nothing wrong with that. But what I'm the point I wanna make is
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seed oils is only
399
00:31:19.080 --> 00:31:22.865
one part of the recipe that has these preservatives in it.
400
00:31:23.325 --> 00:31:39.495
So, like, I'm just gonna call out someone like Joe Consorti who, like, will talk about seed oils and then literally post a picture with a monster energy drink. And I feel like there's a lot of No. No. No. The last time he did that, he he He crossed out water. He crossed out monster and wrote water. You're right. You're right. So that made it water. But
401
00:31:39.975 --> 00:31:54.840
that that Of course. I'm trying to make is, like, there's so many other things that have these I mean, we have, like, a Bud Light Seltzer here. Right? Totally. It's like you guys are the Bud Light Seltzer as drink alcohol? The Bud Light Seltzer was, like, the light compliment to the mezcal. Yeah. The garbage con the garbage compliment.
402
00:31:55.345 --> 00:32:03.045
What is in Bud Light Seltzer? Water, cold fermented cane sugar, natural flavors, cane sugar, citric acid, sodium citrate, malted rice.
403
00:32:04.070 --> 00:32:11.930
So not as bad as other things. You're telling me that's, like, better than the seed oils that you It's definitely better than the seed oils. I think I'm not a nutritionist. Just disclosure.
404
00:32:12.735 --> 00:32:14.675
Disclosure. Consult your local nutritionist.
405
00:32:15.295 --> 00:32:16.015
No. I would,
406
00:32:17.135 --> 00:32:25.890
I think look. There's there's there's, like, look. You're smoking like the jewels. Like, there's plenty of places for us to improve, but I've I've noticed this with, like, the Bitcoin privacy discussion.
407
00:32:26.434 --> 00:32:31.575
It's, like, don't let perfect be the enemy of of of good. Yeah. And, like, we can improve
408
00:32:32.434 --> 00:32:35.650
slow and steady. Every little improvement does help. So you don't
409
00:32:36.590 --> 00:32:38.450
like, I probably shouldn't be an alcoholic.
410
00:32:39.230 --> 00:32:42.930
Right? Like, I'm willing to admit that. Like, I probably drink way too much.
411
00:32:44.215 --> 00:32:46.075
But I enjoy it, and life is short.
412
00:32:46.615 --> 00:32:52.875
But, like, at least I'm not, you know, eating the bugs or eating seed oils, and I'm helping Woah. Woah. Woah. Local family farms,
413
00:32:53.760 --> 00:32:54.820
you know, be sustainable
414
00:32:56.000 --> 00:33:02.820
and flourish and and and then I get the benefit of good food. You fed me that c seed oil filled meal
415
00:33:03.125 --> 00:33:04.025
in the box.
416
00:33:04.804 --> 00:33:06.904
What feed? What what box?
417
00:33:07.684 --> 00:33:19.039
Red hot chocolate beverage. What meal? Oh, yeah. I did. Well So wait wait. You know, they don't have good food at at at Nissan Stadium. So what are you supposed to do? We're just gonna starve?
418
00:33:19.355 --> 00:33:38.865
I guess we should have brought our own box lunch is what we really should have done, but it was our first time in the suite. No. That was that was that was fucked up. You guys both fucked up. I was not able to join. I'm sorry. You should have clearly brought your own cow. I don't know if you can Into the box, slaughtered it last. I don't know if you can do that. Built out a a fire and then roasted it. You definitely can't do that one.
419
00:33:39.645 --> 00:33:45.640
I mean, we lit some fires in that box. If you're doing anything less, you're not a big winner. But I did look at the menu
420
00:33:46.580 --> 00:33:53.240
because I was involved with ordering because I just can't help myself. I was also really hungry. I'm so glad. So And we ordered the, like,
421
00:33:54.165 --> 00:34:00.665
what was perceived as potentially the best quality stuff. Like, what we had, like, pulled chicken and pulled pork was like and it was just, like, in a bowl.
422
00:34:01.320 --> 00:34:07.340
Right? Like, we could've gotten chicken fingers that were fried in seed oils, french fries that were fried in seed oils. That.
423
00:34:07.880 --> 00:34:11.825
Yeah. There was, like, we could've done worse. I think for stadium food, we did pretty good.
424
00:34:12.125 --> 00:34:24.140
Once again, don't let perfect be the enemy of good. Okay. I'm just being an asshole here. I'm gonna ask one more question, and then I promise I will shut up about insect milk. Yeah. This is supposed to be a Bitcoin conversation. Yeah. We're but I'm Oh, I'm so mad right now. I'm not mad. No. Beef initiative.com.
425
00:34:25.080 --> 00:34:31.505
Yeah. Google. You should definitely Georgia. Don't use Google. Yeah. You really should check it out. It's fucking awesome. It's super important.
426
00:34:33.165 --> 00:34:36.225
Back to my bullshit. There's only a 100 tickets. They're going fast.
427
00:34:37.589 --> 00:34:43.130
If I were to have I used to have Giant Hissing Madagascar cockroaches as pets. What?
428
00:34:43.750 --> 00:34:45.849
If I served a meal
429
00:34:46.705 --> 00:34:47.525
that was
430
00:34:48.545 --> 00:34:49.045
homegrown.
431
00:34:49.345 --> 00:34:50.405
Of course, you did.
432
00:34:51.745 --> 00:34:52.245
Homegrown
433
00:34:52.945 --> 00:34:55.285
He definitely has hand fed artisanal
434
00:34:57.490 --> 00:35:11.615
insects. I went to a place like that. Would would you would you eat them? I went to I went to a place like that in New York. There it was like it was called the Black Ant, and it was it was literally like a high end place that incorporated bugs into the food. Yeah. But then it's They should've got shut down by the health authority. Absolutely.
435
00:35:12.310 --> 00:35:21.050
That is that. No. No. That's all shit. It was like, oh, here's a $20 margarita with, like, fucking ants on the rim. I'm, like, picking out the ants. No. No. No. That's all shtick. It's all bullshit.
436
00:35:21.365 --> 00:35:37.740
Here's my He just wants to know if This is literally what you just proposed. Let me let me rephrase now, Pete, because it is it is exactly what you proposed. The the difference is would you eat it if pee served it? No. No. That's I'm not I'd probably be less likely to eat it if you served it. We're gonna call this up. The point is
437
00:35:38.520 --> 00:35:39.580
the point is
438
00:35:41.465 --> 00:35:46.765
if it was actually, like, these are high quality insects that are fed like human
439
00:35:47.065 --> 00:35:50.270
quality food, and it's super high quality protein.
440
00:35:51.210 --> 00:35:56.190
He is that guy who will you will go to his house. He will serve you chicken.
441
00:35:56.605 --> 00:36:15.730
Then I'll be like, surprise, motherfucker. It's fucking bugs. Yeah. That's happening. Literally. Never eat anything besides the chicken. Shouldn't, like, trick people into eating bugs. Gonna trick people into eating bugs. That you're part of the problem. Before it hits your lips, you're gonna know. I'm gonna I'm gonna call I'm gonna call it on the bugs. I appreciate how how receptive you were to to p's questioning.
442
00:36:16.435 --> 00:36:21.415
Please don't cast that judge judgment on me. If you want if you like what p's talking about, you can go to bug initiative.com.
443
00:36:23.859 --> 00:36:24.680
We'll buy that.
444
00:36:24.980 --> 00:36:34.335
Look. I'm just trying to be a determinant here. If you eat lobster, you're eating fucking bugs that he hates. Okay. So then don't eat lobster. Like, eat high quality animal protein. That's the answer.
445
00:36:35.035 --> 00:36:40.070
Yeah. There you go. Lobster is super overpriced too. You're basically just as a vehicle for butter.
446
00:36:40.710 --> 00:36:41.210
Exactly.
447
00:36:42.310 --> 00:36:53.724
Alright. Shifting topics. So what we're talking about? There was something you just said that I wanted to use that as the segue, but you said don't Google things. Can we talk a little bit about data and privacy and how reckless
448
00:36:54.265 --> 00:36:55.724
our generation has been?
449
00:36:56.184 --> 00:37:15.765
I've long felt like our generation was gonna be that 1st generation where when the president of the United States was our age, there was so much shit in their closet. But because they posted it all on Instagram and Facebook, like Oh, we haven't gotten there yet. That's probably gonna happen. But but it will eventually. But, like, what's happening? What's gonna happen is the true psychopaths are gonna be
450
00:37:16.190 --> 00:37:17.010
our our our
451
00:37:17.630 --> 00:37:26.675
our already our politicians, and it's gonna become even more so because, like, every normal person's gonna have a 1,000,000 skeletons in their closet, and it's gonna be like that one buttered up person
452
00:37:27.215 --> 00:37:27.715
who
453
00:37:28.815 --> 00:37:34.900
did even more fucked up things, but they just didn't post on the Internet is the one who's gonna be fucking elected. Really
454
00:37:35.920 --> 00:37:38.339
high quality poor. That was good. Thank you.
455
00:37:38.880 --> 00:37:39.380
I,
456
00:37:43.145 --> 00:37:45.244
you know, it's it's not a good situation.
457
00:37:45.945 --> 00:37:50.744
And I I thought I thought that Snowden when Snowden was, like, 2013, I thought Snowden,
458
00:37:51.890 --> 00:37:54.870
revelations was gonna wake people up. It really did nothing.
459
00:37:56.290 --> 00:37:58.790
I mean, it woke me up. It woke some people up,
460
00:38:00.745 --> 00:38:03.085
but it didn't really wake that many people up.
461
00:38:03.945 --> 00:38:06.525
We have never been in this situation before.
462
00:38:07.385 --> 00:38:07.885
We
463
00:38:08.265 --> 00:38:12.579
live in a completely digital can you stop grinding your chair into
464
00:38:12.960 --> 00:38:25.045
fucking Matt O'Dell Matt O'Dell has been generous enough of his time to literally shut down with this. My Jared. It keeps hitting the top of me. He ran into the table twice. Dude, this is more offensive to me personally
465
00:38:25.505 --> 00:38:26.325
than my
466
00:38:26.625 --> 00:38:27.605
insect milk
467
00:38:28.220 --> 00:38:28.720
apocalypse
468
00:38:29.420 --> 00:38:30.640
agenda. Continue, please.
469
00:38:31.340 --> 00:38:32.800
Jesus fucking Christ.
470
00:38:33.180 --> 00:38:37.845
Get your shit together, q. Look, we've never we've never lived in a world that that is this digital.
471
00:38:38.305 --> 00:38:45.765
Right? And we've never dealt with the repercussions of this type of digital panopticon, and it's coming from all sides because
472
00:38:46.560 --> 00:38:48.980
we have these massive global corporations
473
00:38:49.280 --> 00:38:51.460
that are basically built on data monetization.
474
00:38:51.760 --> 00:38:52.420
And then
475
00:38:53.440 --> 00:39:03.865
we have countries and governments that are also surveilling on us, and they're working together in a lot of lot of times. It's they're either working together intentionally. Can you not draw on the table
476
00:39:04.885 --> 00:39:05.705
with a Sharpie?
477
00:39:07.290 --> 00:39:07.870
I know.
478
00:39:08.410 --> 00:39:11.230
We are they're sometimes working together,
479
00:39:12.330 --> 00:39:15.950
and sometimes they're pressured. Like, we saw on the Snowden docs, like, a lot of the
480
00:39:17.195 --> 00:39:20.815
a lot of the tech companies were were pressured, and they had to sign a
481
00:39:21.275 --> 00:39:25.730
a gag order. They had to sign an NDA that said they couldn't talk about being forced
482
00:39:26.530 --> 00:39:27.830
to give up all this data.
483
00:39:28.210 --> 00:39:32.745
So, I mean, when you start to when you start to look around, it's way bigger than Bitcoin. Right?
484
00:39:33.225 --> 00:39:36.285
It's every thought you've had in terms of a Google search.
485
00:39:36.665 --> 00:39:40.125
It's every location you've been in terms of Google Maps.
486
00:39:43.550 --> 00:39:44.050
It's,
487
00:39:45.390 --> 00:39:45.890
Pete,
488
00:39:46.190 --> 00:39:49.410
we have a really nice, like, oak table in this
489
00:39:50.015 --> 00:39:55.714
very nice podcast studio, and Pete took a Sharpie while I was telling you all this. And he wrote, if you eat lobster,
490
00:39:56.015 --> 00:39:57.075
you fuck lobsters,
491
00:39:59.120 --> 00:40:04.500
which I really appreciate while we're recording. And I'm trying to talk about an important topic that is digital privacy.
492
00:40:06.135 --> 00:40:09.675
But yeah. We're such pieces of shit. You're welcome, America.
493
00:40:12.214 --> 00:40:15.275
But it's a problem. Like, if you if if you walk down your street,
494
00:40:18.160 --> 00:40:23.140
9 out of 10 houses will have Ring cameras. Right? And what are Ring cameras? Ring cameras are
495
00:40:23.835 --> 00:40:25.135
Internet connected cameras
496
00:40:25.435 --> 00:40:29.215
that send all that information back to Amazon servers
497
00:40:29.755 --> 00:40:30.655
that's collected,
498
00:40:31.035 --> 00:40:33.599
shared with cops and police without warrants.
499
00:40:34.460 --> 00:40:38.880
It's put in your permanent file. It can be indexed. It can be used against you at will.
500
00:40:41.465 --> 00:40:41.965
1984
501
00:40:42.345 --> 00:40:49.865
compared to where we are today, like, the world in 1984 thought is a fucking utopia in comparison to today. Today is, like
502
00:40:50.760 --> 00:40:51.500
in 1984,
503
00:40:52.520 --> 00:40:56.300
the theory was that the government was gonna force you to put wire taps in your home.
504
00:40:56.760 --> 00:40:57.820
But in 2022
505
00:40:58.515 --> 00:41:07.815
2, the reality is that people buy the wire taps. They go through the trouble of installing them, and then they brag to their friends about how great the wire taps are, and they should they should also install them in their house.
506
00:41:08.140 --> 00:41:09.600
It is fucking crazy.
507
00:41:09.980 --> 00:41:14.480
Like, I remember reading 1984 back when I was a child in the year 18 96.
508
00:41:15.020 --> 00:41:18.000
And it was terrifying to me
509
00:41:18.845 --> 00:41:23.665
that idea. And you are absolutely correct. The in the modern age, it is absolute.
510
00:41:27.870 --> 00:41:35.170
Matt Odell. That was a that was a really good idea. That was a really, really good idea. For our listeners, Matt Odell just took the
511
00:41:35.615 --> 00:41:45.580
Sharpie away from me, which I wrote, if you eat lobsters, you fuck lobsters, and threw it across the room from me. I will go get it in a minute. I'll crawl into the table and retrieve it. But,
512
00:41:45.980 --> 00:41:48.000
yeah. You you're absolutely right. I mean,
513
00:41:49.099 --> 00:41:49.599
it's
514
00:41:50.220 --> 00:41:50.720
unfathomable
515
00:41:51.020 --> 00:41:51.760
to me
516
00:41:52.215 --> 00:41:54.715
that people are so willing
517
00:41:55.255 --> 00:41:56.315
to embed
518
00:41:57.735 --> 00:41:58.635
listening devices
519
00:41:59.255 --> 00:41:59.755
and
520
00:42:00.700 --> 00:42:09.440
video devices in their lives in a way that not only affects them. Maybe one thing if it was a question of, sort of, like, hey. I'm willing to take on this burden
521
00:42:10.025 --> 00:42:11.485
because I hate myself.
522
00:42:11.945 --> 00:42:13.645
But things like ring cameras,
523
00:42:13.945 --> 00:42:16.605
they're just facing out to the street and
524
00:42:17.270 --> 00:42:22.330
they affect everyone. And it's crazy to me that that's just totally normalized at this point. We essentially rolled out
525
00:42:23.030 --> 00:42:24.250
a full surveillance
526
00:42:24.550 --> 00:42:27.505
network of small suburban neighborhoods across
527
00:42:28.685 --> 00:42:29.744
the United States.
528
00:42:30.525 --> 00:42:31.025
And
529
00:42:31.645 --> 00:42:33.105
it was done by people
530
00:42:33.560 --> 00:42:35.500
buying them and installing them.
531
00:42:36.040 --> 00:42:58.825
You fucking paid for it. You literally were like, hey, let me pay It happened like a matter of years. And, like, there was actually situations where Amazon would strike a deal with the police department, and then the police department would go around and give people free ones. Yeah. She'll be like fuck up. Yeah. 1 100% true. Because they're like, do you want your neighborhood to be safer? Like, then you should put a camera out. If you're not doing anything wrong, like, what should you be worried about? Like, it'll stop criminals. Also, put 1 in your bedroom just facing your bed.
532
00:42:59.125 --> 00:43:04.105
So my point is is we've just never been in this situation before, and my optimistic take is
533
00:43:05.299 --> 00:43:18.385
we're all gonna get burned so fucking hard. And then after we get burned and we touch the stove and we realize, okay. Well, we shouldn't be doing this, then we'll start improving as a society. And every time you see every time these data leaks happen, every time these
534
00:43:19.085 --> 00:43:20.224
compromises happen,
535
00:43:20.605 --> 00:43:25.920
more and more people get burned. More and more people that know people that got burned got burned. And, hopefully,
536
00:43:26.300 --> 00:43:29.920
we have the education. We have the tools available for people to opt out,
537
00:43:30.795 --> 00:43:40.015
and they will choose to opt out as as they realize that need. And that's my optimistic take, but it involves a lot of pain a lot of pain in the short term. So,
538
00:43:41.250 --> 00:43:54.185
I mean, do you really think that that's the outcome that that's the direction we're gonna go? Because I feel like as somebody who is personally It's the optimistic take. It's the optimistic take. Okay. So what is your real take? Because what I will say No. No. That's the optimistic take and the pessimistic take is we're fucked.
539
00:43:55.285 --> 00:43:57.849
Like, those those are the 2 takes. Yeah. I mean,
540
00:43:59.030 --> 00:44:06.250
because I I I feel like I I I was a I am a act contrary to what you may believe. I'm a very optimistic person.
541
00:44:07.095 --> 00:44:08.875
But having been the victim of
542
00:44:09.335 --> 00:44:11.675
a a number of very significant
543
00:44:12.135 --> 00:44:12.635
hacks,
544
00:44:15.470 --> 00:44:17.490
I just don't see people reacting
545
00:44:17.869 --> 00:44:20.210
with anything other than this sort of,
546
00:44:22.029 --> 00:44:22.529
just
547
00:44:24.454 --> 00:44:35.880
wide eyed bemusement. Like, I guess I mean, I guess this is the real world we live in. Like, the government loves us. And if they say that these things happen, it's just sort of a part of life. It's it's all just part of life. I I I
548
00:44:36.180 --> 00:44:40.200
am shocked by a new action. Let me use let me use 2 examples. So,
549
00:44:41.620 --> 00:44:42.920
or I can use 3 examples.
550
00:44:44.015 --> 00:44:45.715
The first example is
551
00:44:46.015 --> 00:44:47.715
China. They're way ahead of us.
552
00:44:50.015 --> 00:44:57.460
There's a there's a a large growing group of Chinese nationals that have increasingly realized the need
553
00:44:58.160 --> 00:44:58.660
for
554
00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:04.855
better privacy tools and empowering themselves and opting out of this Panopticon
555
00:45:05.155 --> 00:45:07.495
because their lives have been so destroyed,
556
00:45:08.435 --> 00:45:12.000
over surveillance. Because it came hard and fast for them. Like, they can really feel it.
557
00:45:13.360 --> 00:45:16.100
In America, I'll give my other two examples.
558
00:45:19.245 --> 00:45:22.305
Know, we're a very politically divided country. On one side,
559
00:45:23.405 --> 00:45:24.225
we're seeing
560
00:45:25.085 --> 00:45:28.065
the move to try and restrict gun ownership
561
00:45:28.960 --> 00:45:30.019
and people realizing
562
00:45:30.319 --> 00:45:32.900
the need for privacy on that front.
563
00:45:33.440 --> 00:45:36.740
And it will get even more. Like, we saw so we saw in, like, California.
564
00:45:37.440 --> 00:45:38.180
We saw,
565
00:45:39.105 --> 00:45:40.885
in California, they you know,
566
00:45:41.345 --> 00:45:47.285
fortunately, in Tennessee, this is we have a constitutional carry state, but in California, you have to register if you carry a handgun.
567
00:45:48.440 --> 00:45:52.780
Well, supposedly, that list of people and their addresses of people that carry
568
00:45:53.080 --> 00:45:55.820
got leaked, and it was publicly available for everybody.
569
00:45:56.265 --> 00:46:03.805
Right? So if you care about individual sovereignty and you care about gun rights and you care about the ability to own your own firearms and practice that right,
570
00:46:05.440 --> 00:46:16.715
you immediately realize the danger there. And and the and the firearm community has been very outspoken about they don't want firearm registries. They don't want lists of of owners of guns, and and they were proven right
571
00:46:17.335 --> 00:46:21.115
in this case in California. And I think a lot of people woke up to it when that happened.
572
00:46:21.690 --> 00:46:27.230
On, so that's, like, on the right, the political American right. And then on the political American left,
573
00:46:29.505 --> 00:46:32.484
now that Roe v Wade was overturned, we're seeing
574
00:46:32.865 --> 00:46:33.365
conversations.
575
00:46:33.825 --> 00:46:35.204
You know, there was a case
576
00:46:35.744 --> 00:46:40.430
with with a woman and her daughter where her Facebook messages that were not encrypted
577
00:46:41.130 --> 00:46:44.030
were used to prosecute her in an abortion case. Right?
578
00:46:45.005 --> 00:46:49.424
Now you might disagree with the different aspects of both of those examples politically,
579
00:46:50.684 --> 00:46:53.825
but I I think it's pretty obvious to people that
580
00:46:54.500 --> 00:47:00.040
as people's rights get infringed on using this digital Panopticon, as they get burned,
581
00:47:00.900 --> 00:47:02.680
they realize the need. Now
582
00:47:03.095 --> 00:47:06.955
signal is a very inch I'll do a 4th example. Signal's a very interesting
583
00:47:07.735 --> 00:47:16.880
trade off balance. I think they've struck pretty good with it. I mean, signal, if you're not aware, to the audience is a encrypted messaging service.
584
00:47:18.140 --> 00:47:18.640
The
585
00:47:19.099 --> 00:47:21.680
hardcore privacy advocates don't really like it because
586
00:47:22.285 --> 00:47:23.985
it still requires a phone number,
587
00:47:24.685 --> 00:47:27.265
and it has this other feature that I'm about to mention.
588
00:47:28.045 --> 00:47:29.185
But signal
589
00:47:30.609 --> 00:47:31.109
stakeholders
590
00:47:31.410 --> 00:47:32.150
would say
591
00:47:32.450 --> 00:47:33.750
that they made certain
592
00:47:34.130 --> 00:47:44.685
trade offs to make it more convenient and more approachable as a platform so more people had message privacy, that people were sending encrypted messages, and they weren't leaking all this information all over the place.
593
00:47:45.065 --> 00:47:47.885
And but one of the trade offs that signal made is
594
00:47:48.260 --> 00:47:49.800
if someone in your contacts,
595
00:47:52.020 --> 00:47:54.599
add signal, you get notified that they add signal.
596
00:47:55.059 --> 00:48:03.755
Now I'm kind of a crazy person. I've switched phones many times, used the Googled phones all over the place, but I've always kept my contact list.
597
00:48:04.455 --> 00:48:10.100
So I have this, like, ever growing I, like, I'm I think I have, like, 3000, 4000 people in my contact list.
598
00:48:10.880 --> 00:48:13.940
And during the Black Lives Matter riots in America,
599
00:48:18.655 --> 00:48:28.170
signal usage went up, like, create I was getting notified left and right by by people joining signals. Right? And it was like, okay. So they they were out there. They were protesting.
600
00:48:28.790 --> 00:48:32.250
They felt like they were being surveilled. They felt the need. They sought out this tool.
601
00:48:32.665 --> 00:48:43.210
Right? So it will keep happening, and we do see it happen. It's just gonna happen way slower than people think, and just people are just gonna have to get burned like crazy. But I I still think the optimistic take is as people get burned,
602
00:48:43.590 --> 00:48:45.850
they realize the need. And then our job,
603
00:48:46.230 --> 00:48:47.770
if we're aware of this already,
604
00:48:48.255 --> 00:48:52.035
and we're trying to improve the situation, improve the status quo, help,
605
00:48:52.735 --> 00:49:01.250
you know, make sure that the world our children and our grandchildren live in is a better world, is to make sure the education's there and the tools are there. So when they realize the need,
606
00:49:01.790 --> 00:49:04.530
they're ready to go, and and they can move forward in improving
607
00:49:04.910 --> 00:49:06.450
in improving their own situation.
608
00:49:10.655 --> 00:49:12.595
Yeah. That's that's incredibly well put.
609
00:49:13.855 --> 00:49:14.915
Building out the tools
610
00:49:15.640 --> 00:49:16.380
in advance.
611
00:49:16.920 --> 00:49:17.740
And I guess,
612
00:49:18.359 --> 00:49:22.539
all we can do in the meantime is encourage people to know how to use those tools
613
00:49:23.045 --> 00:49:28.105
and help educate them so that as they need them, they are available. Yeah. And I I would just add
614
00:49:29.900 --> 00:49:33.040
to quote Eric Hughes in the cypherpunk manifesto,
615
00:49:33.500 --> 00:49:34.000
1993,
616
00:49:34.300 --> 00:49:35.120
he wrote this,
617
00:49:35.980 --> 00:49:37.600
is there is a massive
618
00:49:40.145 --> 00:49:42.245
disconnect on people when they think about privacy.
619
00:49:42.705 --> 00:49:51.670
And his words were privacy is not secrecy. Privacy is the ability to selectively reveal yourself to the world. So I have people tell me all the time, Matt, you're on camera.
620
00:49:52.130 --> 00:49:54.230
You're on voice. You're talking about privacy.
621
00:49:55.170 --> 00:49:57.750
How can you care about privacy? You're talking about privacy.
622
00:49:58.095 --> 00:50:06.275
I'm selectively revealing myself to the world. We are selectively revealing ourselves to the world. The key is consent. The key is not sharing information. You don't have to be a ninja.
623
00:50:06.700 --> 00:50:16.445
The key is I should be in charge of what information is sharing, and there should be consent involved. I should be aware of the trade offs. I should be aware of what data is collected. I should choose which data is used
624
00:50:17.005 --> 00:50:19.265
and when it's used and what I'm getting for it.
625
00:50:19.965 --> 00:50:23.505
But right now, as the case is, is most people are just completely unaware.
626
00:50:24.060 --> 00:50:33.600
They're leaking tons of information left and right. And oftentimes, that's not just affecting them. It's affecting their neighbors. It's gonna affect their children. It's gonna affect their grandchildren. You send your DNA to a service.
627
00:50:34.605 --> 00:50:38.865
That service essentially has the DNA of your future descendants if they're not born yet,
628
00:50:39.484 --> 00:50:43.880
even if they're not born yet. Yeah. If you get your DNA done right now, you are
629
00:50:44.500 --> 00:50:47.960
leaking critical information about your grandkids and your great grandkids.
630
00:50:48.465 --> 00:50:51.525
Absolutely. Without their consent. They're not even fucking people yet.
631
00:50:52.225 --> 00:50:53.605
That's so wild to think because
632
00:50:54.545 --> 00:50:57.260
you're right. If you and your wife unsuspectedly
633
00:50:57.560 --> 00:51:13.170
have each done it, and then later on No. It doesn't even matter if you have done it. And all of your children go for it. But it's worse if it's your They would literally they would know everything about you. Then the whole lineage is just fully completely. I mean, dude, Billy, BlackRock bought out anstery ancestry.com.
634
00:51:14.270 --> 00:51:23.785
Like, you don't They're massive data collection operations. You don't think that they're eventually just gonna go after your your genetic data at some point? And No. They already have. They bought it down. So,
635
00:51:24.085 --> 00:51:26.585
I mean, we're we're talking right now sort of
636
00:51:27.045 --> 00:51:27.545
the
637
00:51:28.390 --> 00:51:46.325
doomsday scenario, the pessimistic option where we're all fucked. No. This is the optimistic scenario. Yeah. Well, I No. No. Seriously. This is the optimistic scenario. I under I understand that in the optimistic scenario, this is already happening. An optimist. I I understand. Otherwise, I wouldn't be doing this right now. If I was if I didn't think that we couldn't improve,
638
00:51:46.930 --> 00:51:54.150
if it was so far gone, I would just be living in the woods. I actually would go so far as to say, you can't be a Bitcoiner without being an optimist.
639
00:51:54.734 --> 00:52:18.305
Because you have No. No. No. No. You you have to. You have to believe that there is a point in the future where this is going to get better. No. No. No. No. I disagree. They're like Then what's the point? I think I think that pigeonholing the idea of a Bitcoiner, I think that is a mistake, and I think it does us all a disservice. Their Bitcoin is for everyone, even your deepest and most hated enemies and that is one of the many beauties of Bitcoin. Okay. And
640
00:52:19.250 --> 00:52:20.070
you can be
641
00:52:20.610 --> 00:52:21.270
a deep,
642
00:52:21.570 --> 00:52:22.390
deep pessimist
643
00:52:24.770 --> 00:52:28.685
and believe in Bitcoin because it is the best option
644
00:52:28.985 --> 00:52:30.525
out of a shitty plethora
645
00:52:30.985 --> 00:52:37.245
of options. And you can be that person, and you can be in Bitcoin, and you can run a node, and you can support the network. And you can be
646
00:52:38.460 --> 00:52:44.880
people like us who are more optimistic and are willing to show our faces on camera and have our voice recorded on camera.
647
00:52:45.325 --> 00:52:49.184
And because we believe that they Your voice is being recorded with microphones.
648
00:52:50.204 --> 00:52:56.510
Like, your phone right now is recording everything on top of the recording of this. Hey. Go on. I I wasn't done. The video part. Okay.
649
00:52:56.810 --> 00:52:58.910
Yeah. Sure. These are these are details that are uninteresting.
650
00:52:59.290 --> 00:53:00.270
The point is
651
00:53:01.135 --> 00:53:03.375
my pen is also a camera and it is no.
652
00:53:04.175 --> 00:53:13.910
We we can be those people and I think that big Bitcoin is for all of us and I think that that's an important distinction. I think that you don't have to be a specific type of person whether you believe in
653
00:53:15.110 --> 00:53:16.230
So I actually think
654
00:53:19.745 --> 00:53:21.605
I actually think I agree with q.
655
00:53:21.905 --> 00:53:23.045
Oh, shit.
656
00:53:23.345 --> 00:53:24.325
Give it to me.
657
00:53:24.705 --> 00:53:27.925
Tell me where I'm wrong. I think I think there's a lot of pessimists
658
00:53:28.225 --> 00:53:28.725
that
659
00:53:29.100 --> 00:53:30.000
find Bitcoin.
660
00:53:31.260 --> 00:53:37.520
Like, I was a pessimist before I found Bitcoin, and then Bitcoin gave me hope and made me an optimist in the future.
661
00:53:39.845 --> 00:53:44.585
Like, being low time Presumably, there are Bitcoiners that are using Bitcoin as digital cash,
662
00:53:45.920 --> 00:53:51.220
and they're essentially high time preference Bitcoiners. It solves a need for them today, which is just
663
00:53:51.760 --> 00:53:52.980
buying things privately,
664
00:53:54.505 --> 00:53:55.325
without censorship
665
00:53:56.424 --> 00:53:59.405
or in a censorship resistant way. We don't wanna talk in absolutes.
666
00:54:00.880 --> 00:54:01.380
And,
667
00:54:01.840 --> 00:54:03.700
those people, I guess, could be pessimists.
668
00:54:04.320 --> 00:54:05.620
But if you are
669
00:54:07.520 --> 00:54:09.220
long term focused on Bitcoin,
670
00:54:09.735 --> 00:54:11.995
There's a degree of optimism there.
671
00:54:12.695 --> 00:54:18.555
That is like like, why are you I mean, if you're if if you're if you're stacking, if you're accumulating Bitcoin,
672
00:54:20.320 --> 00:54:24.420
you obviously believe that there's some reason you're doing that for the long term.
673
00:54:25.840 --> 00:54:27.380
So there is a degree of
674
00:54:27.795 --> 00:54:32.215
at least personal optimism maybe. Maybe you think the whole world is going to shit,
675
00:54:33.075 --> 00:54:35.015
but, like, it personally empowers you.
676
00:54:35.480 --> 00:54:47.155
I mean, I feel incredibly inspired by Bitcoin. So, like, think about our peers that are not Bitcoiners. Like, I'm so when I when I talk to people that I went to college with, when I talk to people that I went to high school with,
677
00:54:47.695 --> 00:54:48.515
they are
678
00:54:49.375 --> 00:54:50.355
very disenfranchised,
679
00:54:50.734 --> 00:54:51.555
very disillusioned,
680
00:54:52.015 --> 00:54:52.835
very pessimistic
681
00:54:53.135 --> 00:54:59.839
on what the future holds, very pessimistic on what corporate media decides they're gonna be angry at, you know, this week or something.
682
00:55:00.780 --> 00:55:02.140
They feel like they've gotten a
683
00:55:03.234 --> 00:55:07.015
they've the short stick. Right? Like, they've they've just been destroyed as a generation.
684
00:55:07.474 --> 00:55:15.089
And then if you talk to Bitcoin, it's like of course, we're not talking abs I'm not gonna talk absolutes. But when you talk to Bitcoin, it's like, I feel like just 90% of our peers
685
00:55:15.550 --> 00:55:18.210
that are in Bitcoin are the exact opposite.
686
00:55:20.645 --> 00:55:21.705
Yeah. Well
687
00:55:22.805 --> 00:55:24.405
So, like, I would never say a 100%
688
00:55:24.805 --> 00:55:27.420
Right. Optimists. Not not a 100%. But a lot.
689
00:55:28.299 --> 00:55:32.960
Bitcoin is hope at the end of the day to me. It certainly is for me. I mean, I I would be
690
00:55:33.339 --> 00:55:38.905
and was, like, profoundly depressed about the state of the world before I understood what Bitcoin
691
00:55:40.325 --> 00:55:46.025
was. If you're watching this and if you're watching this dumbass interview right now, you're probably an optimist. K.
692
00:55:46.589 --> 00:55:50.290
Like, if you're sitting down, you're like, I'm gonna watch P and Q with Odell.
693
00:55:51.869 --> 00:55:55.329
And I'm gonna spend this time for however long this goes for.
694
00:55:55.955 --> 00:55:57.415
That you're probably an optimist.
695
00:55:58.915 --> 00:56:00.935
And I would say that if you're a pessimist,
696
00:56:03.280 --> 00:56:05.860
first, like and subscribe to P&T Show,
697
00:56:06.320 --> 00:56:07.860
and then comment underneath
698
00:56:08.480 --> 00:56:16.355
comment underneath the video and say I'm a pessimist. Let's see how many there are. I love you, Odell. There you go. Always be chilling.
699
00:56:19.320 --> 00:56:21.260
No. No. I I'll I'll I'll I'll accept
700
00:56:21.880 --> 00:56:23.500
it. Alright. So where do we go from here?
701
00:56:25.400 --> 00:56:30.595
I kinda wanna ask you a little bit more though about, like, the the selective revealing because Okay. You
702
00:56:31.295 --> 00:56:35.599
you've been in this space and doing it for so long. Like, you have created this sort of digital
703
00:56:36.140 --> 00:56:38.000
presence of who you are.
704
00:56:38.380 --> 00:56:40.480
We just attended a a funeral
705
00:56:41.180 --> 00:56:42.800
of a digital identity.
706
00:56:44.255 --> 00:56:46.595
Are you Who's funeral was that?
707
00:56:46.975 --> 00:56:48.195
I forget his name.
708
00:56:49.455 --> 00:56:59.800
It's it's so easy. You know? Now that he's gone, you just forget it right away. At the at this point, rock star is a a distant and faded memory. But How are you doing with that? Are you still are you still angry?
709
00:57:00.595 --> 00:57:01.494
So we hosted
710
00:57:01.795 --> 00:57:04.855
Rockstar is a good friend. I would go as far as saying he's a brother.
711
00:57:05.234 --> 00:57:09.494
He decided he wanted to get rid of his digital identity. Very important
712
00:57:11.460 --> 00:57:17.400
to be able to choose when you wanna cycle through a new identity and what you wanna reveal to the world as we talked about.
713
00:57:17.765 --> 00:57:19.305
I was supportive of that.
714
00:57:20.805 --> 00:57:23.145
Usually, when people have NIMs, they,
715
00:57:24.244 --> 00:57:24.905
you know,
716
00:57:25.740 --> 00:57:35.625
just disappear. They just stop posting from that NIM. NIM is a pseudonym, so it's a name that you choose that is not your legal name. It's not the name you're born with. Like like, he wasn't
717
00:57:35.945 --> 00:57:44.125
like, Pete didn't come out of his mom, and his mom was like, oh my god. He's so beautiful. I'm gonna name him Pete. No. Pete decided that he wanted that name to be his identity.
718
00:57:44.730 --> 00:57:48.190
I'm pretty sure the same with q, but his whole family might be named q. I'm not sure.
719
00:57:49.529 --> 00:57:52.589
So Rockstar decided to do that, and I was very supportive.
720
00:57:54.105 --> 00:57:55.645
We hosted a physical
721
00:57:57.145 --> 00:57:58.525
celebration of his life
722
00:57:58.825 --> 00:58:03.840
and everything. He's done so much with this space. I had him on I had him on my podcast, it'll dispatch.
723
00:58:04.620 --> 00:58:05.360
We discussed,
724
00:58:05.980 --> 00:58:10.640
you know, what was important to him, like, why this mission was important, why he's doing the funeral,
725
00:58:11.155 --> 00:58:16.695
spent a lot of time and energy on it, read his eulogy, hosted, like, 45 people here at Bitcoin Park.
726
00:58:17.395 --> 00:58:22.470
And then today this was, like, 3 days ago. And then today, he got announced as a speaker at a
727
00:58:22.890 --> 00:58:23.390
conference.
728
00:58:23.810 --> 00:58:24.310
So,
729
00:58:25.650 --> 00:58:27.589
what what were the phases of grief?
730
00:58:29.410 --> 00:58:29.910
Denial,
731
00:58:30.795 --> 00:58:31.295
anger,
732
00:58:31.915 --> 00:58:33.214
arguing. I am
733
00:58:33.515 --> 00:58:34.875
wholeheartedly in the anger
734
00:58:35.915 --> 00:58:41.030
in the anger part of the game. And you were still hang you were at anger. Yeah. But that was before he had risen again.
735
00:58:42.210 --> 00:58:48.445
So now now I'm definitely I'm just solidified. We're just cemented in that in in that in that zone.
736
00:58:50.585 --> 00:59:06.914
I'm sorry to hear that. I did the the denial hit me for a little bit. And then It it was Yeah. But I was correct. I was, like, I was pretty sure he wasn't I I was pretty sure. I mean, you call that denial at the time, but I was right. Dude, I mean So it wasn't denial. It was it was a correct gut. It was really
737
00:59:07.474 --> 00:59:31.280
you can you can say what you want. I thought it was hilarious. I was watching you deny that he's he's really not he's not gonna not show up. And on the other side of the table, I won't talk to who it was, but they were like, well, we gotta go back to the hotel and, like, you know, we'll tell them we're gonna leave here and go to the go to the wherever we went after it. I was like, okay. So they're bargaining. I've accepted this. Who here is depressed? Yeah. Who's the depressed? But really what happened was q got rugged.
738
00:59:31.820 --> 00:59:32.720
I was right.
739
00:59:34.300 --> 00:59:36.640
And it was it was a beautiful moment.
740
00:59:36.965 --> 00:59:40.425
Rockstar has done a lot for the space. I have a ton of respect for him.
741
00:59:41.525 --> 00:59:43.385
I think his work on digital identity
742
00:59:43.765 --> 00:59:47.810
and explaining to people why selective privacy is important is
743
00:59:48.829 --> 00:59:54.105
extremely crucial to everything that that I've been focused on and a lot of us have been focused on.
744
00:59:54.965 --> 00:59:56.905
And just to complete the
745
00:59:57.925 --> 01:00:01.599
to complete the thought and and and to never stop shilling.
746
01:00:01.980 --> 01:00:03.599
If you would like to see him live,
747
01:00:04.059 --> 01:00:07.279
Tab Conf, will be going on in October in Georgia
748
01:00:07.725 --> 01:00:11.345
in Atlanta. It's a great it's a great conference, and, you can go to tabconf.com,
749
01:00:12.445 --> 01:00:14.465
if you like to buy tickets to see a
750
01:00:15.700 --> 01:00:17.000
presumably dead man,
751
01:00:18.820 --> 01:00:21.080
speak about very important topics. Look.
752
01:00:21.859 --> 01:00:30.984
People have been saying that Cyborg technology is not nearly far enough along for us to be able to reanimate a corpse, and Rockstar is going to prove you all wrong.
753
01:00:33.560 --> 01:00:36.940
Oh. Okay. Yeah. Ready. Let me ask you a different question, Adele.
754
01:00:39.000 --> 01:00:39.660
I know.
755
01:00:40.165 --> 01:00:42.185
Shut up, I tried. Shut up. I tried.
756
01:00:42.645 --> 01:00:47.225
But you literally, like, told him you were ready for his question, and then you're like, I'm gonna ask you the question. 100%.
757
01:00:47.605 --> 01:00:48.985
That is exactly what happened.
758
01:00:50.630 --> 01:00:55.210
Story of my life. That and p are muted. Pretty much sum up my, day to day.
759
01:00:56.390 --> 01:01:01.425
Adele, where where will you be during this momentous occasion, the the resurrection?
760
01:01:03.085 --> 01:01:12.090
As far as I'm concerned, the resurrection already happened. It happened when the tweet went out. Right? It's a digital identity. Digital identity. It was a digital announcement that he is not dead,
761
01:01:12.710 --> 01:01:14.570
or maybe he was, and it's a resurrection.
762
01:01:17.485 --> 01:01:25.140
So one thing that I think is Are you trying to get me to do, Yes. He's trying to get me to show one more thing. No. We we can just wait till that's more tasteful in the
763
01:01:26.900 --> 01:01:41.335
future. So can can I ask the question that I've now since forgotten? I'll allow it, but watch yourself, counselor. It is key to always show, but it's key to keep them tasteful. You know? You know? Like, he's done he's done it, like, very simply, smoothly. It's like good. They don't realize we've collected
764
01:01:41.750 --> 01:01:48.500
money from both the TAB Conference and the initiative. I don't think we have. No. We haven't. No. They're not sponsors. You should have I don't know.
765
01:01:50.145 --> 01:01:56.645
It does, like, that is money that's out of my fucking pocket. So just to recap, all 3 shills have not paid any money.
766
01:01:58.170 --> 01:02:00.350
Tabconf, beef initiative. Tabconf.com,
767
01:02:00.810 --> 01:02:01.470
beef initiative.com,
768
01:02:01.850 --> 01:02:02.590
sill dispatch.com
769
01:02:02.890 --> 01:02:11.335
have not paid money. Oh. All 3 shills. Are you serious? Wait. No. He did he did show that, but there was a 4th. What was the 4th thing I recapped? Oh, bug initiative.com.
770
01:02:12.035 --> 01:02:12.775
Like and
771
01:02:13.210 --> 01:02:25.505
subscribe, if I could ever say that word, .com. This yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I assumed you guys hadn't paid yourself money. We have. That would just be dumb. No. We haven't. Yeah. No no money. And I have not received any money for that chill.
772
01:02:26.445 --> 01:02:28.580
Fair enough. Fair enough. Nor will you.
773
01:02:29.620 --> 01:02:30.920
It's never gonna happen.
774
01:02:32.660 --> 01:02:35.240
Okay. Okay. Please, ask your question. Is
775
01:02:35.865 --> 01:02:37.325
is the future of,
776
01:02:38.025 --> 01:02:38.685
you know,
777
01:02:38.985 --> 01:02:45.405
people's safety as we talked about get the getting burned, the the less so learning digital safety and identity.
778
01:02:47.450 --> 01:02:51.870
I am so sorry yet again for the child that sits to your left
779
01:02:52.410 --> 01:02:54.030
viewers. Right. I'm an adult.
780
01:02:57.065 --> 01:03:02.525
Is protecting our digital identity? Like, will the every man have to have a name to a degree?
781
01:03:03.390 --> 01:03:11.650
Like, will we get to that point where it's so necessary if you want to have some semblance of Would the every man have a digital identity? Like, no. A
782
01:03:12.029 --> 01:03:22.520
pseudonym. Like, a genuine nim separate to what they have already created once we realize how far we've gone. Yeah. I mean, I I think I think the optimistic case is that people will have many, many
783
01:03:30.494 --> 01:03:33.795
right now, you know, we live in a society that mostly,
784
01:03:34.414 --> 01:03:37.075
you know, the state decides your identity system.
785
01:03:39.790 --> 01:03:44.290
And the way you live your life is is is it's it's really hard to use multiple identities,
786
01:03:44.910 --> 01:03:47.730
in a dated I mean, if you wanna talk about
787
01:03:48.375 --> 01:03:52.715
living your life privately, like, try paying your property taxes privately
788
01:03:54.695 --> 01:03:56.875
or having a birth certificate for your child
789
01:03:57.309 --> 01:03:58.130
privately or,
790
01:03:59.069 --> 01:04:09.105
paying your mortgage privately or registering to vote privately. These things are very difficult. Our society is set up to basically create all these data honeypots that you're a ostracized
791
01:04:09.565 --> 01:04:12.865
crazy person if you try and opt out of these different things.
792
01:04:15.550 --> 01:04:24.930
Like, I personally think it's completely normal for someone to have a kid and not have a state sanctioned birth certificate for. But I think most people right now would say you're fucking crazy if you said that. Right?
793
01:04:25.725 --> 01:04:29.185
So I think we are gonna slowly move to a world where people
794
01:04:29.565 --> 01:04:32.385
it's more commonplace, and it's gonna be people choosing.
795
01:04:33.230 --> 01:04:43.305
People will choose to opt out of that system, choose to have multiple identities until it gets normalized. There's a lot of things that we currently think are normal that were crazy at some point in people
796
01:04:44.245 --> 01:04:46.825
chose to do them. And as more as more people did them,
797
01:04:47.525 --> 01:04:50.505
it became normalized, and it became a a common occurrence.
798
01:04:51.030 --> 01:04:53.690
Now we need tools to make that more
799
01:04:54.310 --> 01:04:55.530
accessible. Right now,
800
01:04:55.910 --> 01:05:03.535
our most common digital ID is a phone number, and that's, like, insanely centralized. Right? You have people will have a phone number from the,
801
01:05:03.835 --> 01:05:35.395
you know, from the time they get their first phone, which is increasing increasingly younger, which shouldn't be the case either, but that's people's personal decision. They can do that if they want to. And that phone number tracks them through their whole lives. They use it to sign up for services. It's it's, at this point, it's almost more of a Social Security number than the Social Security number is. Right? It absolutely is. And that's like a complete that's obviously a completely centralized system. Most of them you can get a phone number without connecting it to your legal name, but It is very difficult. Yeah. And the the status quo is, like, it's basically full KYC.
802
01:05:35.695 --> 01:05:42.035
Identify yourself with your legal name, provide all your information. That's connected to the phone number. If you use the phone number, then that's connected to all the other information.
803
01:05:42.590 --> 01:05:43.650
So we need tools
804
01:05:44.590 --> 01:05:45.490
to disintermediate
805
01:05:45.870 --> 01:05:51.970
that. And one of the promising projects is decentralized ID. And I go back and forth on decentralized ID because
806
01:05:52.444 --> 01:05:58.625
the first major use case of decentralized ID, I'm, like, 99% sure will be, like, pure, you know, like, draconian,
807
01:05:59.164 --> 01:05:59.664
dystopian,
808
01:06:00.525 --> 01:06:04.190
and Opticon bullshit. Can you elaborate on that? Yeah. It's gonna be like state
809
01:06:04.730 --> 01:06:06.510
states are gonna use the decentralized
810
01:06:06.890 --> 01:06:16.525
ID infrastructure and force it on us. And then we're gonna have a digital ID where and we saw this in the the aftermath of COVID, the COVID response or whatever, where if you wanted to
811
01:06:16.905 --> 01:06:18.045
go into a restaurant,
812
01:06:19.440 --> 01:06:22.740
in New York City or other major cities, you had to provide
813
01:06:23.280 --> 01:06:28.180
you had to provide this pass. You had to provide this connection to your digital to your to your identity.
814
01:06:28.635 --> 01:06:30.895
And some places, including New York,
815
01:06:32.635 --> 01:06:56.440
had a digital version where it was an app and it had a QR code. And, actually, it was even worse as a privacy focused big corner because it was powered by IBM Blockchain. Oh, sweetie. Just to add on top of that. Right? But where they were essentially wanted to know who was in what establishment, when they were in it, and all attach that to your legal ID. Now they had a lot of issues rolling that out because they didn't have the infrastructure. So I'm a little bit concerned
816
01:06:57.140 --> 01:06:57.640
that,
817
01:06:58.925 --> 01:07:01.105
you know, when when you make when you make
818
01:07:01.724 --> 01:07:02.224
powerful
819
01:07:02.525 --> 01:07:04.785
censorship resistant robust tools,
820
01:07:05.165 --> 01:07:08.224
they're gonna be used by many different people for many different reasons.
821
01:07:08.910 --> 01:07:11.970
And by design, you can't control how people use them.
822
01:07:12.430 --> 01:07:13.970
But the beginning of decentralized
823
01:07:14.270 --> 01:07:16.770
ID will probably be marked by
824
01:07:17.185 --> 01:07:19.685
these states that wanted to push digital IDs,
825
01:07:20.065 --> 01:07:24.405
but didn't really have the infrastructure chops to do it. But if someone gives them an out of the box solution,
826
01:07:24.860 --> 01:07:26.720
they're like, yeah. Go to the DMV,
827
01:07:27.260 --> 01:07:38.165
scan your driver's I driver's license. And then every time you do anything, we want you to we want you to check-in with this thing so we know where you are, where you're at, what you're spending on, all this different stuff. But, ultimately, the
828
01:07:39.045 --> 01:07:42.905
I actually see a lot of resemblance to decentralized ID in Bitcoin,
829
01:07:43.559 --> 01:07:47.180
where Bitcoin you can use Bitcoin in a fully pro surveillance way.
830
01:07:47.480 --> 01:07:49.020
All your all your,
831
01:07:49.480 --> 01:08:02.660
transactions are tracked. How much you have is always tracked at a at a moment, but you can also use it in a freedom oriented way without permission. And with decentralized IDs, you have essentially the ability to to spin up what amounts to a
832
01:08:03.359 --> 01:08:04.900
a public private key pair,
833
01:08:05.359 --> 01:08:11.835
which is similar to how Bitcoin works. And and that can be associated to a certain reputation, a certain I identity
834
01:08:12.695 --> 01:08:16.475
that you want, and you can use them selectively. You could spin up as many as you want.
835
01:08:17.210 --> 01:08:20.510
And I think that will become more and more commonplace where, like, people
836
01:08:21.050 --> 01:08:22.510
will essentially have,
837
01:08:23.290 --> 01:08:24.670
have different identities
838
01:08:25.765 --> 01:08:26.265
and
839
01:08:27.525 --> 01:08:28.905
and different organizations,
840
01:08:29.685 --> 01:08:30.185
events,
841
01:08:30.645 --> 01:08:31.145
services,
842
01:08:31.445 --> 01:08:31.945
whatnot,
843
01:08:32.325 --> 01:08:37.130
will not only honor the the state sanctioned identity. Like, if you wanna think of decentralized
844
01:08:37.510 --> 01:08:42.170
ID on a high level, the way I look at it is, okay, so you have this cryptographically
845
01:08:42.710 --> 01:08:46.465
verifiable identity that you can create at will as many as you want.
846
01:08:46.925 --> 01:08:50.225
We all have those, and we can each endorse each other.
847
01:08:51.085 --> 01:08:51.585
Obviously,
848
01:08:51.885 --> 01:08:53.265
you guys are just letters.
849
01:08:53.690 --> 01:08:56.270
But you could say, like, Matt's a good dude. But also,
850
01:08:58.489 --> 01:09:05.605
Citibank could say that Matt pays his mortgage on time, and the landlord can say that Matt pays his rent on time.
851
01:09:06.865 --> 01:09:13.989
A teacher could say that Matt was a good student or whatever. And different services, different people will respect those different
852
01:09:15.010 --> 01:09:15.510
attestations
853
01:09:15.889 --> 01:09:17.270
of of of your credibility
854
01:09:18.055 --> 01:09:24.635
rather than just, you know, the New York DMV said that Matt lives at this house and pays his taxes. Right?
855
01:09:26.130 --> 01:09:27.750
Yeah. Oh, it makes sense.
856
01:09:28.050 --> 01:09:29.090
I'm curious though. Like
857
01:09:30.290 --> 01:09:39.075
And that's the optimistic take. I I was gonna say that you you slipped the pessimistic take in there. You brought you brought No. No. That's the opt the optimistic take is it starts
858
01:09:40.255 --> 01:09:41.555
it starts with
859
01:09:42.015 --> 01:09:43.235
draconian Panopticon
860
01:09:44.489 --> 01:09:47.949
surveillance state shit, but then it morphs into freedom
861
01:09:48.650 --> 01:09:49.550
tech at scale.
862
01:09:50.090 --> 01:09:54.445
And the pessimistic take is it just goes to that first step and stays at that first step.
863
01:09:56.025 --> 01:10:03.590
And that every transaction we do is tracked, logged, used against us, every message we send, every location we go to, every photo we take,
864
01:10:04.450 --> 01:10:06.230
every time we answer the door,
865
01:10:06.770 --> 01:10:08.070
every time we go out.
866
01:10:08.474 --> 01:10:23.605
I mean, I think the reality is that is already the case. Stop using my own stickers and sticking me with them. Hey. I'm just trying to promote Citadel Dispatch, which is a fantastic podcast everyone should be subscribing to. Available on all podcast apps. Just search the little dispatch at your favorite one. All joking
867
01:10:24.145 --> 01:10:27.445
aside, legit, one of the best Bitcoin focused podcasts in existence.
868
01:10:30.360 --> 01:10:32.940
I mean, we're already in that state. Right? Like, with the
869
01:10:34.599 --> 01:10:37.239
I love that you're giving me shit and then you're also like
870
01:10:37.665 --> 01:10:45.685
well, they're like wasted stickers otherwise. No. They're not. These are these are high quality stickers. The point is we are already in that state. And the reality is, like, people people
871
01:10:46.930 --> 01:10:49.510
fuck you, Q. People labor under the delusion
872
01:10:50.050 --> 01:10:55.510
that these systems are separate and that the government does not necessarily have access
873
01:10:55.825 --> 01:10:59.525
to your quote, unquote private information, but they already do. And
874
01:11:00.305 --> 01:11:02.945
I think there's a lot of legal cases that would
875
01:11:03.810 --> 01:11:05.110
that support that claim.
876
01:11:06.770 --> 01:11:14.185
But the record show, Matadel literally just checked his wow to see how much longer we are going. No. That's not what I did.
877
01:11:15.205 --> 01:11:45.645
I had I was supposed to do another recording, and Pete told me not to do it. But we are we are at a great point in this conversation to continue going. And if I hadn't canceled that other responsibility, we would be fucked. I take full responsibility. Yeah. She should've done it. It was all peaceful. Yeah. 100%. So that's why I checked. Alright. Fair enough. Fair enough. I think this has been a great conversation. I hope I hope the audience has agreed so far. And I I hope I hope from what you're saying, which excites me is we're not done yet. I don't I mean, I don't think so. I think we're in stride right now. Absolutely not.
878
01:11:48.345 --> 01:11:51.325
So one of the there's an there's an episode you did recently,
879
01:11:52.080 --> 01:11:57.300
with Rockstar before he was hit. Before he died and then resurrected. Yes.
880
01:11:58.000 --> 01:11:59.140
Those are your words.
881
01:12:02.405 --> 01:12:08.585
Where he encouraged If you did a resurrection, you should at least done it, like, outside of a cave. You know, done it the full 9 yards. I 100%
882
01:12:08.885 --> 01:12:10.425
agree. Yeah. Okay. Continue.
883
01:12:11.670 --> 01:12:13.850
Or he basically advocated for everyone
884
01:12:14.230 --> 01:12:16.010
creating NIMs to
885
01:12:16.550 --> 01:12:19.875
explore different aspects of their identity. Yeah.
886
01:12:20.255 --> 01:12:27.875
And different things that they were interested in. And I think this is a really interesting idea. It is not something that I have ever done, but I think that
887
01:12:28.560 --> 01:12:36.740
it's something I I'm curious what what whether you have explored that yourself. I'm trying to get you to dox yourself. What are your names? And, I've had many names.
888
01:12:40.425 --> 01:12:42.685
This was the only one that it didn't have the
889
01:12:43.625 --> 01:12:45.565
wherewithal to cycle out.
890
01:12:48.740 --> 01:12:53.160
I'm I'm not trying to do a gotcha question. Because the the key is the key is
891
01:12:53.915 --> 01:12:57.915
when it comes to NIMs, like, they should be temporary things. They should be
892
01:12:59.435 --> 01:13:00.415
you should be
893
01:13:02.340 --> 01:13:11.555
getting rid of them and starting fresh ones. You should have many, many nymphs. People should have many I mean, they can do whatever the fuck they want, but it's really empowering having many nymphs.
894
01:13:12.335 --> 01:13:14.755
And, like, a perfect example a perfect example.
895
01:13:15.295 --> 01:13:17.955
An easy to grok example if you're on Twitter
896
01:13:18.590 --> 01:13:22.130
is this idea that when you like a post, it tells everyone that you like the post.
897
01:13:22.590 --> 01:13:35.244
Right? Like, you should be able to and I know all of you have thought about this. When you press the like button, you're like, everyone's gonna be notified basically that I like this post. What are the implications there? And that's ridiculous. Right? Like, you should be free to explore
898
01:13:36.290 --> 01:13:46.655
and and learn and improve and do all these things without necessarily having this this element of social pressure that maybe you may or may not consented to.
899
01:13:47.515 --> 01:13:48.735
And I I think
900
01:13:49.435 --> 01:14:06.845
that is obviously, like, a smaller example than that. Right? But, like, you should be able to be free to do these things. And and having having many different names is an easy is an easy answer to to doing that in today's age. Yeah. I just I I listened to that episode recently, and and I really like the idea that
901
01:14:07.225 --> 01:14:09.325
of encouraging people to explore
902
01:14:09.864 --> 01:14:11.245
creating multiple NIMs.
903
01:14:11.910 --> 01:14:22.545
And that being a normalized behavior rather than something that is sort of, like, wait, why do you have multiple names that you do not connect? Like, what are you trying to So you wanna know the positive take on this? Yes.
904
01:14:27.760 --> 01:14:28.260
Esports
905
01:14:28.880 --> 01:14:30.020
and drone racing.
906
01:14:31.200 --> 01:14:37.295
I'm so excited to hear how this is connected. The top 10 in the world, almost all nims. No shit. Now,
907
01:14:38.475 --> 01:14:41.135
like, that's that's a generation that decided
908
01:14:41.515 --> 01:14:42.574
that their
909
01:14:43.195 --> 01:15:01.675
their passion, their their main thing that they're focused on, like, regardless if you think they're legitimate sports like playing League of Legends or drone racing, I would I would argue that drone racing is pretty fucking cool. Like, it's Yeah. I love kinda cool. Video games. I just wish the drones had missiles on them. I think that would make it more exciting. 100%. They're all they're all NIMs.
910
01:15:02.090 --> 01:15:08.590
I think they're Fortnite, the Fortnite championship or whatever was, like, won by, like, a 14 year old in Argentina named, you know,
911
01:15:09.585 --> 01:15:12.405
Grain slime boner jam. Yeah. Something like that. Yeah.
912
01:15:13.344 --> 01:15:15.045
It's like eagleflyer or something.
913
01:15:15.665 --> 01:15:19.300
That's just a Native American name. I don't even know. I whatever. But, you know, it's like,
914
01:15:19.940 --> 01:15:26.040
he had he had a nim. Right? He had a nim, and it was normalized. It wasn't like it wasn't like Were you on camera though?
915
01:15:26.375 --> 01:15:43.500
Like, he didn't, like, show his face? No. He he showed his face, but it wasn't like His name is you know, Paul 1. It was blah blah 1. Right? Like, that was his and, like, he had fans that came there to support his name. They didn't come there to support his legal name. Right. So there there's a normalization happening in the younger generation already.
916
01:15:43.885 --> 01:15:47.585
For sure. At least in the gaming world and the
917
01:15:48.605 --> 01:15:59.330
I would I would like like drone racing is probably the gaming world. That's probably still the same demo. I mean, I have But you you see that. I certainly had an interesting experience doing the programming for Bitcoin 2022,
918
01:16:00.110 --> 01:16:01.810
which is I was
919
01:16:02.805 --> 01:16:10.105
surprised by the number of, like you know, I had to interact with a lot of high profile people whether it was, you know, Bukele president Bukele, the Salvador's team
920
01:16:10.480 --> 01:16:10.720
or,
921
01:16:11.280 --> 01:16:12.900
you know, people associated with
922
01:16:13.760 --> 01:16:16.420
any number of political figures who were, like, deeply
923
01:16:17.200 --> 01:16:27.760
confused by the idea that my name was a simp was a letter. And they were, like, yo, what the fuck is going on? Like, what are you trying to hide? You know what you should have said. Right? What's that? It was a birth certificate. Fuck up.
924
01:16:28.480 --> 01:16:29.119
No. That
925
01:16:30.239 --> 01:16:53.065
I didn't even get the chance. I feel like that just ends the conversation. It's like, yeah. I don't know what my mom was thinking, but she fucked up the birth certificate. Mom was gonna my mom was told when she had me, which explains That's the liberty you get to take when your NIM is a single letter. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, I I I was fascinated by that. Like, even in the Bitcoin space, can you can you stop just, like, slamming gamers all over the country. Try to turn this on me, Ricky
926
01:16:55.465 --> 01:17:03.550
Bobby. Anyway, I I I I think that I I love the idea that Slow and steady. Like, it'll get normalized over time. Yeah. I think that's the optimistic take.
927
01:17:04.090 --> 01:17:05.949
I think you're right. I think you're right.
928
01:17:07.690 --> 01:17:12.325
To be honest, I've just been imagining these, drone races as, like, early predecessors
929
01:17:12.865 --> 01:17:13.365
to
930
01:17:13.985 --> 01:17:17.765
I'm a star wars fan. So, like, pod racing. Yeah. Love that.
931
01:17:18.679 --> 01:17:22.539
Love that. Every, like, fit it the references that you make are either, like,
932
01:17:23.000 --> 01:17:23.500
basketball,
933
01:17:24.280 --> 01:17:24.780
NFL,
934
01:17:25.565 --> 01:17:28.625
Star Wars. That's it. That's all you got. You have about
935
01:17:29.645 --> 01:17:30.945
30% of my personality.
936
01:17:31.485 --> 01:17:31.985
Yeah.
937
01:17:32.685 --> 01:17:34.790
You don't make very many references. I know.
938
01:17:36.530 --> 01:17:38.870
Like, like, sort of, like, broad,
939
01:17:39.730 --> 01:17:40.390
you know,
940
01:17:42.035 --> 01:17:43.335
cultural references.
941
01:17:45.795 --> 01:17:46.615
Do I not?
942
01:17:47.635 --> 01:17:49.575
I don't think so. I don't know. There's, like,
943
01:17:49.880 --> 01:17:54.440
100, if not, 1,000 of hours of me publicly speaking. But if you say so
944
01:17:55.240 --> 01:18:00.935
I mean, look Pete, you have homework to do. Look. I mean, look. You you're publicly you hate sports. You hate gambling.
945
01:18:02.195 --> 01:18:10.390
And, wait. Wait. Why? I'm I'm totally I'm sorry. I love that you guys take. I skipped over the sports thing and I was like, I love gambling.
946
01:18:12.210 --> 01:18:22.494
I I one of my favorite things, by the way, is the fact that you and Q can't seem to tell at all when I'm just, like, it's really hard because I worked very closely with p for a while now.
947
01:18:24.860 --> 01:18:27.520
And it, like, really wasted a lot of my time.
948
01:18:28.380 --> 01:18:33.840
I know. No shit. It's like, fuck. Why was I listening? That was bullshit. It was, like, completely unnecessary.
949
01:18:34.765 --> 01:18:36.225
It makes me so happy.
950
01:18:37.485 --> 01:18:49.190
And, yeah. It's like the I would say it's the 5th most common topic of conversation when we are hanging out, like, privately. It's sort of, like, the reference is still, like, god fucking damn it. Like, why did I waste my time attending
951
01:18:50.050 --> 01:18:51.190
to what you were saying?
952
01:18:52.130 --> 01:18:52.630
Alright.
953
01:18:53.065 --> 01:18:59.485
I I'm glad to know that this is not just like a personal experience with PETA. This is a very consistent theme.
954
01:19:00.300 --> 01:19:01.520
So look, here's the thing.
955
01:19:03.740 --> 01:19:06.400
I think it is important that we are all challenged
956
01:19:06.860 --> 01:19:07.360
to
957
01:19:09.614 --> 01:19:12.995
critically examine everything that is being fed to us
958
01:19:13.375 --> 01:19:16.195
at all times and I view it as a personal,
959
01:19:18.760 --> 01:19:21.500
like, responsibility. Know if this is bullshit or not. Right?
960
01:19:21.880 --> 01:19:58.380
You don't even know. Like, it could just Look. Not the joy. Not the joy. Not the joy. This is the issue. Right? This is the issue. It's like he could be making an important point, or I should just not pay attention. Like, I don't even know. Right? Now look. Look. Here here's the You never know where you're gonna have so good about, like, setting up the punch line. Yeah. Like, I'll give him credit. Like, I'm just not even gonna listen to this. Look. Here here's the thing. If you don't know me well enough, there is always a deep nugget of truth in everything that I'm saying. And I'm just figuring it out as we go. I'm saying I'm saying stuff and then I will turn it into some random comment that makes it, not really relevant. My point is
961
01:19:59.535 --> 01:20:12.250
I would hope that we are all critically evaluating everything that we're hearing around us at all times. I think that especially well, actually, I don't wanna say especially in the Bitcoin space. I think this is this is more prevalent in
962
01:20:12.550 --> 01:20:13.610
outside of Bitcoin.
963
01:20:13.995 --> 01:20:15.055
But we have a tendency
964
01:20:15.755 --> 01:20:16.575
to lionize
965
01:20:17.275 --> 01:20:19.135
the people that we identify as heroes
966
01:20:19.595 --> 01:20:23.295
and to not evaluate critically the individual
967
01:20:24.020 --> 01:20:27.000
statements that they make and the decisions they advocate for.
968
01:20:27.380 --> 01:20:30.199
And I think that's a that's a huge loss. And
969
01:20:31.059 --> 01:20:32.679
my own random personality
970
01:20:33.545 --> 01:20:38.205
leads me to say random shit all the time. But that's kind of the nugget of what I'm trying to do. It's like,
971
01:20:39.225 --> 01:20:40.685
I want everybody to be
972
01:20:41.410 --> 01:20:49.145
critically evaluating everything that everyone has. You're like the teacher who, like, says bullshit so that people don't always just assume whatever the teacher says is the good
973
01:20:49.625 --> 01:21:08.350
thing. I think that that would be a very presumptuous thing for me to argue because I'd be lying if I said I knew I I I thought these things through as I was saying them. But that's a positive take. That's the optimistic take. That's what we've been talking about this entire time. That is the optimistic take. The name name of this episode is? The optimistic take. The optimistic take with Odell.
974
01:21:09.595 --> 01:21:15.135
Oh, I'm so happy. Literally, nothing you've said has made me happier than when you pulled the cork out. For the audience,
975
01:21:15.515 --> 01:21:24.030
every time I pull the cork out, in front of my mic, the the you've heard every time has been me trying to induce Odell to do this because it's like this.
976
01:21:27.555 --> 01:21:30.775
What's the word? What's the the person who rings the bell? Alcoholism.
977
01:21:32.115 --> 01:21:36.520
Pav loves dogs. Pav loves dogs. Yeah. I have listened to your fucking podcasts
978
01:21:36.980 --> 01:21:41.960
for so many years and that, like, boom, is such a, like, visceral
979
01:21:42.260 --> 01:21:46.275
experience for me of, like, let's fucking get into it. Like, this is gonna be
980
01:21:46.575 --> 01:21:47.235
an uncensored
981
01:21:47.855 --> 01:22:05.205
real conversation. So I'm super excited that you just pull the bottle and Love the love love the bottle pop. Odell vetoed me trying to hotbox this room. I did try earlier. Yeah. Yeah. You fucking idiot. You're trying to do this in, like, a like, this is, like, a $1,000,000 fucking studio we're in with, like, expensive audio equipment. Everything around us is fucking gorgeous.
982
01:22:05.985 --> 01:22:07.285
Shout out Bitcoin Park.
983
01:22:07.985 --> 01:22:10.850
And you're over here trying to fucking blow. Wait. Wait. Wait.
984
01:22:13.970 --> 01:22:18.470
If that is something you'd be interested in, it is going to be an opportunity for that in the future.
985
01:22:19.445 --> 01:22:21.704
Stay tuned to this channel to
986
01:22:22.244 --> 01:22:23.144
to see that.
987
01:22:25.525 --> 01:22:27.385
Wait. I feel like you didn't seal the deal.
988
01:22:27.810 --> 01:22:32.290
I don't know how much I'm allowed to talk about or not. You you talk about whatever the fuck you want. If you haven't figured
989
01:22:32.930 --> 01:22:34.070
say whatever you want.
990
01:22:34.370 --> 01:22:56.200
If if we have to hold this podcast until a certain date, we can do that. No. I don't I hate holding podcasts. I'm not gonna lie. We talked about this. No. No. No. No. No. We're not gonna do that. Look. There might be there might be a conversation with me and q in the future Oh, yeah. That resembles I don't I don't wanna say that. Yeah. I don't wanna say that. Yeah. See, I'm good. I'm like God fucking damn it. What people don't realize is they're like, Matt, you say ridiculous shit.
991
01:22:58.065 --> 01:23:03.045
Like, yeah. But I've I've had many hours of being drunk on air, and there's a lot of shit I don't say.
992
01:23:05.390 --> 01:23:08.590
Pretty good about it for the most part. I've had my I've had my,
993
01:23:09.230 --> 01:23:16.534
my low points, but there's there's been pretty good about it. Oh, okay. Alright. Alright. I thought you were basically saying, like Lot of secrets up here.
994
01:23:19.400 --> 01:23:23.900
Can you can you say that again, but, like, slur just a little bit more? No. Alright. Alright. Fair enough.
995
01:23:25.800 --> 01:23:27.500
I don't play by nobody's rules.
996
01:23:29.075 --> 01:23:29.815
It's it's understandable.
997
01:23:31.795 --> 01:23:34.055
So a question that I like to ask.
998
01:23:36.170 --> 01:23:38.510
What have we not talked about in this conversation
999
01:23:39.610 --> 01:23:40.110
that
1000
01:23:40.730 --> 01:23:41.710
you have
1001
01:23:42.250 --> 01:23:42.750
Nope.
1002
01:23:43.495 --> 01:23:48.395
I got I got our next topic. Oh, fuck that. No. No. No. Hold on. Hold on. This is a real question.
1003
01:23:49.655 --> 01:23:51.034
It wasn't a real okay.
1004
01:23:53.710 --> 01:23:56.050
What is something that you have not
1005
01:23:57.070 --> 01:23:58.590
here's because looking at each other like
1006
01:23:59.630 --> 01:24:09.245
Wait. Like, you're asking me a question to ask Oh, but continue. Just go. Just ask me a question. What is something you shit, man. Just just keep drinking your mezcal. What is something like? Almost done with the bottle.
1007
01:24:09.920 --> 01:24:27.219
Which I'm impressed because I I've taken, like, 2 sips of the Yeah. You haven't drinking anything. I'm not gonna drink it. Pretty lame. Yeah. You literally have an entire fucking glass. Drinking this. Personal choice. You have your choice. I I'm use I'm He's been say drinking a single can of Bud Light Salsa. And I've been using my vice pretty long have you been going for? What is that over there?
1008
01:24:28.560 --> 01:24:40.955
Only an hour and 30 minutes. An hour and 30 minutes, you've been sipping on that single Bud Light Seltzer. Congratulations. There's no oh, there's one more. Here, I'll go get a second. No pure pressure. Okay. Ask the question. Ask the question while he was like, to replenish himself.
1009
01:24:41.335 --> 01:24:46.750
The question genuinely is Which means it was empty, by the way. So he hasn't even been sipping it. A 100%.
1010
01:24:49.369 --> 01:24:53.385
What is the topic that you feel comfortable wait. What? Continue.
1011
01:24:54.805 --> 01:24:55.765
You just did the
1012
01:24:56.245 --> 01:25:01.625
Yeah. We got okay. Go on. No. No. No. Like I don't think this is a real question. Continue. It is a real question. What is something
1013
01:25:01.940 --> 01:25:02.440
that
1014
01:25:02.980 --> 01:25:04.360
you haven't had the opportunity
1015
01:25:05.059 --> 01:25:07.639
to dive into recently on the many
1016
01:25:08.179 --> 01:25:12.065
podcasts that you have done in the public appearances that is super important
1017
01:25:13.005 --> 01:25:15.265
to you personally or to the Bitcoin space.
1018
01:25:18.180 --> 01:25:22.260
And it can be a niche thing. It can be within the the within the larger concept of privacy.
1019
01:25:24.100 --> 01:25:28.525
It can be within the the under the aegis of, you know, sovereignty.
1020
01:25:30.505 --> 01:25:32.764
And if the answer is there's nothing, that's totally fine too.
1021
01:25:38.850 --> 01:25:39.670
I don't know.
1022
01:25:41.570 --> 01:25:45.750
So while you noodle on that I'm constantly I'm constantly trying to
1023
01:25:46.855 --> 01:25:49.355
explore things that haven't been explored. I don't like,
1024
01:25:52.295 --> 01:25:55.094
like, part of the reason I started solo dispatch was because I was
1025
01:25:56.010 --> 01:25:57.390
I felt like there was
1026
01:25:57.930 --> 01:26:03.070
there was a hole in just public discussions and conversations in the Bitcoin space, and
1027
01:26:05.315 --> 01:26:10.215
I thought I could help fill that hole. I didn't wanna do what everyone else was doing. I didn't wanna
1028
01:26:13.080 --> 01:26:18.380
I I I I didn't wanna just be talking about the same things that everyone else was talking about.
1029
01:26:21.755 --> 01:26:22.815
But I don't know.
1030
01:26:24.715 --> 01:26:29.055
I I mean, personally, I think what specifically had been lacking for a while was
1031
01:26:30.490 --> 01:26:34.910
the food and the local community building kind of part of the equation,
1032
01:26:35.450 --> 01:26:36.830
but I've just gone, like,
1033
01:26:37.135 --> 01:26:38.515
ham on that. So
1034
01:26:39.215 --> 01:26:40.595
that's not lacking now.
1035
01:26:41.135 --> 01:26:42.035
That is actually
1036
01:26:42.735 --> 01:26:45.395
it's a fantastic answer, and that is something that I
1037
01:26:47.040 --> 01:26:53.620
I have recognized in you. You have I mean, when we moved here we moved to Nashville at approximately the same time.
1038
01:26:54.080 --> 01:26:54.580
And
1039
01:26:54.960 --> 01:26:55.700
there was
1040
01:26:56.615 --> 01:27:00.635
a very small community of Bitcoiners here that was mostly focused around Bitcoin Magazine.
1041
01:27:00.935 --> 01:27:03.195
And you have done an incredible job of,
1042
01:27:04.240 --> 01:27:10.090
you know, working with Bitcoin Park, working with Rod, working with Mills, and the people that are involved to really build this out into a,
1043
01:27:11.295 --> 01:27:14.275
a new and unique kind of mecca for Bitcoiners.
1044
01:27:14.974 --> 01:27:15.474
And
1045
01:27:16.574 --> 01:27:19.054
I think it's pretty impressive. So Yeah. I don't like
1046
01:27:19.910 --> 01:27:22.090
I'm a simple man. I like
1047
01:27:24.550 --> 01:27:28.490
I like target something, and I'm like, we need to do more of this, and I just fucking do it.
1048
01:27:28.865 --> 01:27:30.725
You know? I just see where it takes me.
1049
01:27:32.705 --> 01:27:35.285
And then if I feel like that has
1050
01:27:35.825 --> 01:27:37.765
been sufficiently boosted or sufficiently
1051
01:27:39.300 --> 01:27:41.160
improved, then I move to the next thing.
1052
01:27:44.820 --> 01:27:47.320
I think I don't think people realize, like, how much
1053
01:27:53.685 --> 01:27:56.505
like, how much individual action can actually
1054
01:27:57.860 --> 01:27:58.840
make a difference.
1055
01:28:00.500 --> 01:28:04.280
And individual action obviously always starts with an individual, but it,
1056
01:28:05.035 --> 01:28:10.175
you know, when you have like minded individuals come together, like, real change actually can happen.
1057
01:28:10.715 --> 01:28:13.055
Not like bullshit whining and complaining
1058
01:28:13.380 --> 01:28:16.680
and arguing with people for, like, bullshit Internet points.
1059
01:28:18.820 --> 01:28:22.760
But, like, actually doing things and being consistent about it
1060
01:28:24.085 --> 01:28:24.985
makes a difference.
1061
01:28:25.685 --> 01:28:29.465
It makes a huge difference. But it all starts with the individual. You gotta,
1062
01:28:31.420 --> 01:28:33.840
I mean, the crazy thing for me is that,
1063
01:28:35.100 --> 01:28:36.480
like, I feel like no matter
1064
01:28:36.780 --> 01:28:37.520
how much
1065
01:28:38.325 --> 01:28:40.025
I do, like, it's fucking
1066
01:28:41.765 --> 01:28:43.785
still not enough. It's always not enough.
1067
01:28:46.380 --> 01:28:52.080
But you have to just remember it. Like, when I say these things, I'm usually reminding myself of these things. When I when I
1068
01:28:52.525 --> 01:28:55.485
when I when I talk publicly, I'm usually talking
1069
01:28:56.925 --> 01:28:59.665
this sounds conceited. I'm usually talking to myself first.
1070
01:29:00.179 --> 01:29:09.400
When people say, like, oh, Matt. Like, why you say stay humble all the time? You're not a humble person. It's like, yeah. Well, that's why you gotta stay humble. You know? Like, that's why you have to repeat it over and over again,
1071
01:29:10.885 --> 01:29:15.625
is because we're all non humble people. Most of us are not humble people. I am definitely not a humble person.
1072
01:29:16.325 --> 01:29:20.100
Most of us are hypocrites. Like, we need to be less of hypocrites. Right?
1073
01:29:21.360 --> 01:29:22.340
Try and be consistent.
1074
01:29:23.360 --> 01:29:30.145
Try and do things that matter. Try and improve situations. Try and, you know, hold the door when someone's, like, trying to walk through.
1075
01:29:30.605 --> 01:29:33.485
These little things, they do add up. Like, you hold the door open for someone, like
1076
01:29:35.850 --> 01:29:39.869
there's a great documentary called the butterfly effect. Like, it it just
1077
01:29:40.250 --> 01:29:45.225
it goes further and further and further, like, as you here you go. I gave you a reference. It's made me so happy.
1078
01:29:49.685 --> 01:29:54.890
It's the happiest I've ever had. Okay. Do you have a real question you wanna ask? Wait. Wait. Hold on. Hold on.
1079
01:29:55.430 --> 01:30:02.285
That was a real answer, and I think it was a phenomenal one. And I also want to acknowledge, like, I think that the kind of, like, nonchalant
1080
01:30:03.305 --> 01:30:04.605
attitude that you have
1081
01:30:08.200 --> 01:30:10.620
does not do justice to how much effort
1082
01:30:11.080 --> 01:30:15.740
you put into this space. I mean, we were just talking about before we went live,
1083
01:30:16.245 --> 01:30:17.305
the insane
1084
01:30:17.765 --> 01:30:22.665
travel schedule that you have ahead of you over the next 2 to 3 months. And I think that
1085
01:30:25.100 --> 01:30:27.920
you get a lot of credit for all the work that you do in the space.
1086
01:30:28.460 --> 01:30:32.560
But I I honestly feel like people don't realize, like, how
1087
01:30:33.205 --> 01:30:40.485
much of yourself you give to Bitcoin and to educating to the people around you. And I think it's it's quite remarkable. I I I mean
1088
01:30:42.060 --> 01:30:43.920
I appreciate that and I appreciate you.
1089
01:30:44.780 --> 01:30:46.400
The feeling is mutual, my friend.
1090
01:30:47.500 --> 01:30:49.920
Here you go find yourself. Ask your question.
1091
01:30:51.405 --> 01:30:53.425
I love you too cute. I'm kidding. Of course.
1092
01:30:54.925 --> 01:30:56.305
I wanna talk KYC
1093
01:31:02.190 --> 01:31:04.370
Without saying all the things that I use,
1094
01:31:04.989 --> 01:31:08.530
I definitely don't have the best practices of my own.
1095
01:31:09.795 --> 01:31:11.815
You and 99% of other people.
1096
01:31:12.915 --> 01:31:13.655
And so
1097
01:31:17.060 --> 01:31:21.800
at a certain point, is it better to onboard someone for the sake of What is KYC?
1098
01:31:22.740 --> 01:31:23.640
Know your customer.
1099
01:31:24.235 --> 01:31:25.535
What is know your customer?
1100
01:31:26.235 --> 01:31:27.855
Essentially giving up your information
1101
01:31:28.875 --> 01:31:30.415
to Use the service.
1102
01:31:31.489 --> 01:31:31.969
ID
1103
01:31:32.530 --> 01:31:33.909
Bank account. Address,
1104
01:31:34.690 --> 01:31:35.909
email, phone number,
1105
01:31:36.289 --> 01:31:37.349
selfie maybe.
1106
01:31:37.730 --> 01:31:39.909
Social Security number. Social Security number.
1107
01:31:40.835 --> 01:31:42.775
Like, what? What type of your child?
1108
01:31:43.955 --> 01:31:46.695
Not that part. Yeah. Which testicle hangs lower than the other?
1109
01:31:47.155 --> 01:31:48.695
How much hair you have left?
1110
01:31:51.520 --> 01:31:53.219
Like, my favorite thing to do
1111
01:31:53.760 --> 01:31:56.500
when I do deal with my normie friends is
1112
01:31:57.364 --> 01:32:01.625
I'll get if they already have Cash App, it's so easy to just convince them, hop on over.
1113
01:32:02.164 --> 01:32:04.824
Like, is it better to just onboard someone
1114
01:32:05.204 --> 01:32:06.744
orange pill them, get them
1115
01:32:07.159 --> 01:32:08.619
sort of into Bitcoin
1116
01:32:08.920 --> 01:32:18.665
knowing that that's probably at some point, you've gotta correct the path that they're on, or should they just start off on the right path when it may be a little bit more
1117
01:32:19.525 --> 01:32:21.224
it may have a little bit more friction,
1118
01:32:21.525 --> 01:32:24.025
and therefore, less people will have that appetite.
1119
01:32:26.780 --> 01:32:28.719
I mean, so this is a very common question.
1120
01:32:31.260 --> 01:32:32.560
My favorite part about
1121
01:32:34.605 --> 01:32:38.065
my public experience in the Bitcoin space is that
1122
01:32:44.030 --> 01:32:46.850
I have a lot of people that disagree with me all the time.
1123
01:32:47.710 --> 01:32:48.210
Oftentimes
1124
01:32:48.510 --> 01:32:49.010
vehemently,
1125
01:32:49.950 --> 01:32:50.450
very,
1126
01:32:51.150 --> 01:32:53.330
passionate about disagreeing with me.
1127
01:32:54.364 --> 01:32:58.385
Sometimes it flips. Like, they'll agree with me on one thing. They disagree with me on another.
1128
01:32:58.844 --> 01:33:01.664
I like the hot button issues. KYC is one of them.
1129
01:33:03.190 --> 01:33:05.210
We we shouldn't be I you know,
1130
01:33:05.590 --> 01:33:07.210
Harry Potter was mostly a shitcoin,
1131
01:33:07.750 --> 01:33:19.230
but I think the aspect of of not of not saying I'm trying to do as many references as possible. The aspect of the aspect of of not saying Voldemort saying he who must not be named,
1132
01:33:20.030 --> 01:33:25.570
I think is a is very relevant to today's culture. Like, there's a lot of things that people just don't want to talk about.
1133
01:33:26.805 --> 01:33:27.625
And I think
1134
01:33:28.565 --> 01:33:34.265
there really is power in just talking about them. Let's have open discussions about them. Right? So k y c,
1135
01:33:34.730 --> 01:33:35.230
this
1136
01:33:35.969 --> 01:33:36.469
encroaching
1137
01:33:37.210 --> 01:33:37.949
state enforced
1138
01:33:38.730 --> 01:33:39.230
requirement
1139
01:33:40.170 --> 01:33:44.270
to provide intimate personal information to use basic
1140
01:33:44.765 --> 01:33:45.265
necessary
1141
01:33:46.605 --> 01:33:47.105
services
1142
01:33:49.245 --> 01:33:55.480
is absolutely anti freedom. It's horrible for this country. It's horrible for people around the world. It puts us at risk.
1143
01:33:57.380 --> 01:34:07.755
Like even if you're a status, like it puts us all at risk, like it makes it makes America weaker. It makes us less robust. It makes us more vulnerable to potential enemies like China or Russia
1144
01:34:08.110 --> 01:34:11.889
or other malicious actors that might wanna steal our information and use it against
1145
01:34:12.190 --> 01:34:13.730
our own citizens. Right?
1146
01:34:14.510 --> 01:34:24.585
But people in power have decided that their ability to control us, the trade off of putting us at risk to our enemies is is worth it for being able to control us.
1147
01:34:26.320 --> 01:34:28.980
This encroachment is not unique to Bitcoin.
1148
01:34:29.679 --> 01:34:31.060
If you are using
1149
01:34:31.599 --> 01:34:32.099
dollars
1150
01:34:33.335 --> 01:34:36.235
and you are one of our peers who predominantly
1151
01:34:36.535 --> 01:34:40.855
chooses not to use cash, I mean, we've seen with the younger generation, they don't use cash. Like, I
1152
01:34:41.495 --> 01:34:42.475
I'm very unique.
1153
01:34:42.990 --> 01:34:44.450
I'm very unique in this.
1154
01:34:44.910 --> 01:35:00.114
You listen to just pull pull out a lot of cash. Like, do you guys have cash? Yeah. You guys have any cash on you? No. But my father would be furious. We have Mills. We have our great producer Mills over here in the background. You have cash. Wait. Keep in mind, if you don't like the audio quality or video quality, producer Mills, she's in the background.
1155
01:35:00.490 --> 01:35:07.630
I'm kidding. She's mostly just spectating. She did not handle mostly, you can blame Pete. He handled most of the setup. Oh, shit. You do have cash.
1156
01:35:08.255 --> 01:35:11.795
Yeah. Like, you have cash. That's rare among our peers. That's because you like weed.
1157
01:35:12.494 --> 01:35:12.974
But
1158
01:35:13.375 --> 01:35:16.195
Let's be real. The the weed smokers of the youth,
1159
01:35:16.735 --> 01:35:17.235
have
1160
01:35:17.750 --> 01:35:20.890
understood, you know, what it means to do p to p exchanges.
1161
01:35:21.750 --> 01:35:38.119
And, like, at the summer, guys, like, they get a lot of shit, but a lot of things. But one thing they make a lot of sense about is they say, like, oh, you say this shit is too difficult. Like, every weed smoker in America has dealt with it already. Wonderful. And, like, you dealt with it because you had a need or whatever. But my point is is this is a little bit long winded, but KYC
1162
01:35:38.420 --> 01:35:39.639
providing all this identifying
1163
01:35:39.940 --> 01:35:43.480
information surrounds us every point of our life. Like, you check into a hotel.
1164
01:35:43.815 --> 01:35:47.994
You set up Venmo. You wanna use any kind of digital payment mechanism,
1165
01:35:49.014 --> 01:35:51.435
whether that's PayPal, Venmo, Cash App,
1166
01:35:51.909 --> 01:35:56.170
Chase QuickPay, bank account. Right? Like, you're providing all this intimate information.
1167
01:35:56.630 --> 01:35:58.810
You wanna travel on the plane. You're providing
1168
01:35:59.795 --> 01:36:02.695
information. Maybe they're gonna pat you down, grab your crotch.
1169
01:36:03.315 --> 01:36:12.210
Like, people are giving up all this information everywhere. Now Bitcoin was a microcosm for a while because we had no KYC. There was, like, you can it was just
1170
01:36:12.590 --> 01:36:18.695
everything was I it's hard for you guys to realize. No. No. I know. I mean, it was When you go back to 2015, 95%
1171
01:36:19.074 --> 01:36:19.655
of services.
1172
01:36:20.434 --> 01:36:21.094
No KYC.
1173
01:36:21.554 --> 01:36:24.434
And it was a big selling point of Bitcoin was, like, this was the non
1174
01:36:25.870 --> 01:36:28.370
this was that that that non KYC
1175
01:36:29.390 --> 01:36:37.864
parallel economy. Right? And then KYC swept in. It swept in super fast. People called it regulatory clarity. They said it was bullish,
1176
01:36:38.324 --> 01:36:44.570
you know, and it got normalized super fucking quickly in Bitcoin. So it's a very strong sticking point in Bitcoin.
1177
01:36:45.990 --> 01:36:48.090
Now if we're talking about
1178
01:36:48.765 --> 01:36:50.625
using Bitcoin as a money
1179
01:36:51.085 --> 01:36:53.265
that is independent of states and corporations,
1180
01:36:55.085 --> 01:36:56.225
to achieve that,
1181
01:36:59.080 --> 01:37:06.860
it goes to say that you probably shouldn't be giving intimate personal information connected to your Bitcoin and yourself
1182
01:37:07.525 --> 01:37:08.744
to states and corporations.
1183
01:37:09.685 --> 01:37:13.304
So if you're deciding to use Bitcoin as
1184
01:37:15.079 --> 01:37:16.860
a non state resistant, a
1185
01:37:17.320 --> 01:37:18.619
non corporate independent
1186
01:37:19.800 --> 01:37:20.300
money,
1187
01:37:22.735 --> 01:37:25.155
then that makes complete sense for you to
1188
01:37:26.095 --> 01:37:27.795
use a fully regulated service.
1189
01:37:28.335 --> 01:37:33.199
But if your goal is to have a money that is truly independent of states and corporations,
1190
01:37:33.579 --> 01:37:43.775
that is truly permissionless, that truly allows access for everybody. And, like so KYC has two elements to it. It's not only the surveillance and control element, but it's also the exclusion permission element.
1191
01:37:45.755 --> 01:37:49.775
KYC policies restrict a ton of people from using Bitcoin with these services.
1192
01:37:50.640 --> 01:37:53.860
It restricts them from using banking services. It restricts them
1193
01:37:55.840 --> 01:38:02.185
I mean, during COVID, it restricted them from going to certain restaurants in certain bars. It restricted them from traveling to certain places. Right?
1194
01:38:02.885 --> 01:38:07.864
It restricted them from getting phone numbers and basic services, restricted them from getting utilities,
1195
01:38:08.330 --> 01:38:10.270
but it also restricted them from using Bitcoin.
1196
01:38:11.370 --> 01:38:16.030
So the power of Bitcoin to me is that you can use it outside of those services.
1197
01:38:16.485 --> 01:38:21.145
So what I would say at the most basic element, and I don't I'm not a
1198
01:38:21.925 --> 01:38:25.385
extremist on any one side even though a lot of people probably would.
1199
01:38:26.350 --> 01:38:30.450
Ironically, people that disagree with each other would pigeonhole me on both sides and say, like, oh,
1200
01:38:31.150 --> 01:38:39.745
like, you're pro k y c or you're anti k y c extremist. I'm really, like, somewhere in the middle. I want people to be aware of the trade offs. I wanna be people to be aware of the risks,
1201
01:38:40.285 --> 01:38:43.905
and I want people to be aware of the fact that it doesn't have to be exclusive
1202
01:38:44.410 --> 01:38:46.190
per individual. Like, you could have
1203
01:38:46.810 --> 01:38:50.429
you could buy Bitcoin through a regulated service, and you could buy Bitcoin p to p
1204
01:38:50.810 --> 01:38:51.390
in person.
1205
01:38:52.010 --> 01:38:53.550
And you can have 2 separate
1206
01:38:54.315 --> 01:38:56.494
Bitcoin stacks. Right? And one stack might be,
1207
01:38:57.675 --> 01:39:06.260
you pretending you're Wolf of Wall Street, and the other stack might be you pretending that you're Sopranos and you're hiding your duffel bag in the wall. So 4th reference.
1208
01:39:07.600 --> 01:39:08.100
The
1209
01:39:08.640 --> 01:39:11.940
like, you can have that situation. Like, that can be
1210
01:39:12.745 --> 01:39:16.525
how you choose to do it, and that's your personal choice. But what I would say is
1211
01:39:17.065 --> 01:39:21.325
I'm really against the idea of when you're bringing friends and family into Bitcoin,
1212
01:39:21.940 --> 01:39:23.800
that you immediately just say,
1213
01:39:24.180 --> 01:39:29.160
go to this regulated service, sign up, use my ref link. I'm gonna get, like, a portion of your fees,
1214
01:39:30.395 --> 01:39:37.055
and off to the wolves with you. Go submit all your personal no. What you really should do is you should send them a little bit of Bitcoin.
1215
01:39:37.960 --> 01:39:39.020
Let them appreciate
1216
01:39:39.400 --> 01:39:43.660
self sovereign Bitcoin. Let them appreciate being able to download a mobile wallet
1217
01:39:44.120 --> 01:39:46.220
like Moon Wallet with 2 Us. And
1218
01:39:46.864 --> 01:39:59.340
you install the mobile wallet, and you receive Bitcoin without providing your ID, without providing any of this verification information. Just, like, instantly, you're just all of a sudden you're connected to this global financial open monetary network,
1219
01:39:59.719 --> 01:40:08.905
receive some Bitcoin, be able to send some Bitcoin. Like, that is fucking powerful. Like, telling someone to go to some regulated service, give them all their personal information,
1220
01:40:09.740 --> 01:40:10.240
and,
1221
01:40:10.780 --> 01:40:12.640
you know, set up dollar cost averaging.
1222
01:40:13.500 --> 01:40:23.325
It's just like like, I know inflation is bad, but that's not there's no empowerment. There's very little empowerment that's happening there, and they're missing they're missing the forest or the trees of what the Bitcoin
1223
01:40:23.945 --> 01:40:26.285
of of what the power of Bitcoin really is.
1224
01:40:26.640 --> 01:40:35.035
And so even if they choose to actively go to one of these and they might ask you, like, what is my what is the best one? And and, ultimately, it is
1225
01:40:35.415 --> 01:40:36.315
a it is a
1226
01:40:37.175 --> 01:40:44.250
decision that needs to be made. Do you this is a trusted third party. This is someone you're trusting with your private information. Like, it should be
1227
01:40:44.790 --> 01:40:45.290
a
1228
01:40:46.150 --> 01:40:47.130
active discussion
1229
01:40:47.590 --> 01:40:54.395
that is that is educated decision. Right? Like, they're actually thinking about who they're trusting with this information. They might ask you that question afterwards.
1230
01:40:54.935 --> 01:40:57.114
But their first touch with Bitcoin
1231
01:40:57.950 --> 01:41:02.210
should be self sovereign Bitcoin, should be individually empowered Bitcoin.
1232
01:41:06.425 --> 01:41:07.885
I could not agree more.
1233
01:41:09.785 --> 01:41:11.805
Sorry, Jack. I tried to shell Cash App.
1234
01:41:15.310 --> 01:41:21.730
The problem with Bitcoin is when you just say Jack, you don't know which regulated service you're showing. It could be Cash App or or Strike.
1235
01:41:23.275 --> 01:41:24.075
I I think that is a
1236
01:41:27.035 --> 01:41:33.120
I I don't know how to summarize what you're set what you have said in a an in a more eloquent way. No. But
1237
01:41:33.580 --> 01:41:39.760
I appreciate what he said. Like, to be honest, like, it makes me think, like, differently about the way I would approach if
1238
01:41:40.465 --> 01:41:42.804
a friend who has no touchpoint to Bitcoin
1239
01:41:43.185 --> 01:41:43.685
already
1240
01:41:44.945 --> 01:41:48.645
were to reach out to me and be like, help me figure this out, help me set it up.
1241
01:41:49.360 --> 01:41:54.340
At least you could explain to them more holistically what it's meant to do
1242
01:41:55.039 --> 01:42:13.219
rather than just here's a little bit of Bitcoin now off to the wolves with you. No. No. No. It's it's more than that. Here's a little bit of Bitcoin is actually a fantastic way to onboard somebody to Bitcoin As long as you're doing it in a way that does not require k you know, KYC and in empowers them to be self sovereign.
1243
01:42:13.855 --> 01:42:18.594
But saying, like, oh, yeah. You know, you wanna understand Bitcoin, like, you know, go sign up for,
1244
01:42:19.295 --> 01:42:20.275
you know, fucking
1245
01:42:20.815 --> 01:42:23.700
whatever exchange. Over showing Cash App Cash App.
1246
01:42:24.100 --> 01:42:24.600
Sorry.
1247
01:42:25.620 --> 01:42:26.760
You should not say
1248
01:42:27.220 --> 01:42:27.540
those
1249
01:42:28.580 --> 01:42:29.080
no.
1250
01:42:29.620 --> 01:42:39.890
The reason the reason I use Cash App as the example Is because they already have it. It's the number one app. That is the last there's less friction there already. It's like the app's already on your phone.
1251
01:42:40.770 --> 01:42:43.270
That's genuinely why But, like, here's an interesting
1252
01:42:43.570 --> 01:42:53.305
here's an interesting microcosm with Cash App. Obviously, you need to use KYC to use Cash App to begin with. But to use a Bitcoin portion of Cash App, you have to use even enhanced. You have to go further.
1253
01:42:53.765 --> 01:42:58.585
So they might already have Cash App on their phone, but to actually withdraw their Bitcoin to their own wallet,
1254
01:42:59.030 --> 01:43:10.575
they need to go through an additional level of KYC. So it actually doesn't reduce that much friction. It might reduce, like, mental friction of trusting a company because you already trust that company, but you're still providing you're still providing additional information.
1255
01:43:11.114 --> 01:43:11.775
I just
1256
01:43:12.875 --> 01:43:14.495
when you think about it, it's like
1257
01:43:15.850 --> 01:43:18.750
the amount of people that their first touch point for Bitcoin
1258
01:43:19.449 --> 01:43:19.949
was
1259
01:43:20.250 --> 01:43:22.110
entering their home address,
1260
01:43:23.645 --> 01:43:26.625
scanning their driver's license, and then taking selfies.
1261
01:43:27.085 --> 01:43:29.425
And then we go on Twitter and we say,
1262
01:43:30.430 --> 01:43:34.130
like, Bitcoin is fuck you money. Bitcoin is freedom money. Like, this is
1263
01:43:34.990 --> 01:43:41.175
this is, like, the future of money without the state and corporations involved while the majority of people are going straight in
1264
01:43:41.955 --> 01:43:44.215
through state and corporate surveillance machine.
1265
01:43:44.675 --> 01:43:46.695
Yeah. That is a weird It's just so hypocritical,
1266
01:43:47.130 --> 01:43:52.270
and it's just a fucking tragedy. It's a massive tragedy. And and the thing is is, like,
1267
01:43:53.210 --> 01:43:56.670
options are good, and people should be able to choose what they wanna do. But,
1268
01:43:57.245 --> 01:44:01.105
you know, we also talk about incentives in Bitcoin a lot. And
1269
01:44:01.885 --> 01:44:02.784
money talks.
1270
01:44:03.085 --> 01:44:16.014
You know? So most of the public people, they're talking about the KYC regulated services. Why? Because those are the services that make money. Those are the services that pay them. Those are the services that sponsor their conferences and their podcasts and their books.
1271
01:44:17.355 --> 01:44:21.295
So that's what's talked about. There aren't that many people that are talking about
1272
01:44:21.820 --> 01:44:25.520
that you have other options, that you can earn Bitcoin, that you can trade at p2p,
1273
01:44:25.980 --> 01:44:27.440
that you can mine Bitcoin.
1274
01:44:27.900 --> 01:44:31.255
Right? People don't talk about those as as
1275
01:44:31.715 --> 01:44:34.775
as potential on ramps to Bitcoin because there's no
1276
01:44:35.155 --> 01:44:37.175
individual incentive for them to do it.
1277
01:44:37.955 --> 01:44:38.935
And I just
1278
01:44:40.870 --> 01:44:45.450
I think it's important that someone who kind of myself, who stumbled into having an audience,
1279
01:44:46.550 --> 01:44:47.690
talks about those
1280
01:44:48.185 --> 01:44:51.005
situations because there's not enough people talking about
1281
01:44:54.585 --> 01:44:55.405
them. Well said.
1282
01:44:59.080 --> 01:45:05.755
Hugh going forward. I feel ashamed. Yeah. You should If I'm being quite honest, I genuinely feel ashamed right now. So I'm gonna just
1283
01:45:06.315 --> 01:45:06.815
sip
1284
01:45:07.275 --> 01:45:20.470
and puff for a little bit while Pete takes over this conversation. No. To be clear, he's not sipping on the mezcal. No. He's not. He's got a fucking, like, half full glass. You and I are the only ones who've killed this entire bottle. I was out smoking. No lysa counter.
1285
01:45:21.045 --> 01:45:22.025
Yeah. Yeah.
1286
01:45:26.485 --> 01:45:29.465
I I'm just reflecting on my own experience of getting into Bitcoin.
1287
01:45:30.710 --> 01:45:36.489
You know, in in my my first exposure to Bitcoin was in, you know, 2017. And I did not understand it until until,
1288
01:45:36.869 --> 01:45:38.489
you know, a couple years later. But
1289
01:45:38.949 --> 01:45:39.449
I
1290
01:45:39.975 --> 01:45:43.995
I had the experience that I think you're speaking to which is sort of this this
1291
01:45:45.735 --> 01:45:46.875
this sense of
1292
01:45:47.255 --> 01:45:50.970
expansive freedom of being like, oh my gosh, like, you can one can transact
1293
01:45:51.350 --> 01:45:51.850
in
1294
01:45:52.390 --> 01:45:52.890
value
1295
01:45:54.070 --> 01:45:55.050
separate from
1296
01:45:55.724 --> 01:45:56.385
the existing
1297
01:45:56.844 --> 01:45:57.824
kind of Orwellian
1298
01:46:00.684 --> 01:46:01.184
visibility
1299
01:46:01.485 --> 01:46:02.465
of the state.
1300
01:46:03.090 --> 01:46:22.810
And I'm just realizing that after, you know, in this conversation, like, you're right. The 99 I don't wanna say 99. The majority like 99% of newcomers. Yeah. They don't experience that. That. Like, that was the thing that blew my fucking mind. It was like, oh, my gosh. There is so and I I came in as someone who's building options trading bots and traditional equities and stuff. And I was like, oh, my god. So much liquidity in this space.
1301
01:46:23.190 --> 01:46:27.610
And it is free. Not in the sense of, like, oh, where I'm I'm unable to avoid
1302
01:46:28.070 --> 01:46:28.570
regulatory,
1303
01:46:29.625 --> 01:46:33.725
things so that I can do bullshit things. It was like, oh my gosh. This is actually,
1304
01:46:34.985 --> 01:46:36.125
money that
1305
01:46:37.449 --> 01:46:40.429
can be used separate from state oversight
1306
01:46:40.889 --> 01:46:42.030
corrupt state oversight.
1307
01:46:42.409 --> 01:46:48.235
And I I am just, thinking about how as you said, so a few people have that experience today. Yeah. It's like,
1308
01:46:49.975 --> 01:46:53.195
our money is is essentially on
1309
01:46:54.429 --> 01:46:58.530
non Bitcoin money. Right? Fiat money is essentially on the centralized servers
1310
01:46:59.070 --> 01:47:02.290
that are controlled by governments, corporations. It's not our money.
1311
01:47:02.955 --> 01:47:04.735
It's IOUs. While Bitcoin
1312
01:47:06.475 --> 01:47:08.015
like, the money is in the computer.
1313
01:47:08.475 --> 01:47:09.535
It's like Zoolander.
1314
01:47:13.489 --> 01:47:17.190
Actually, in the computer, you have the keys. You own that money.
1315
01:47:17.810 --> 01:47:20.550
I mean, I guess some people might say it's it's on the ledger,
1316
01:47:20.885 --> 01:47:23.784
But, like, your private keys are on your they're in your computer.
1317
01:47:24.644 --> 01:47:32.590
I mean, I hope not. I hope they're not in your Internet connected computer. No. I mean I mean, hardware wallet is a computer. It's a purpose built computer. Absolutely.
1318
01:47:33.849 --> 01:47:38.190
I think I think the you wanna talk about that. I think that's a interesting topic,
1319
01:47:39.034 --> 01:47:41.054
to go back to your previous non question,
1320
01:47:41.914 --> 01:47:42.735
which is,
1321
01:47:43.114 --> 01:47:46.875
you know, Bitcorners a good show. Bitcorners, we tend
1322
01:47:47.630 --> 01:47:48.290
we're obsessed with Bitcoin.
1323
01:47:48.910 --> 01:47:49.410
Right?
1324
01:47:54.885 --> 01:47:56.505
Bitcoin a lot of Bitcoiners
1325
01:47:57.684 --> 01:48:07.220
are are obviously obsessed with Bitcoin. We're very enthusiastic about Bitcoin. We go down the rabbit hole. We go super, super deep. There's so many different facets of Bitcoin and associated
1326
01:48:07.840 --> 01:48:12.740
parallel systems that you can discuss and talk about and dissect and argue about.
1327
01:48:14.305 --> 01:48:15.125
But, ultimately,
1328
01:48:15.425 --> 01:48:16.565
to me, Bitcoin's
1329
01:48:17.905 --> 01:48:22.245
value prop is in its simplicity. It's a money that you own yourself,
1330
01:48:22.870 --> 01:48:32.250
that you have control of, that doesn't require permission from anyone else, that can't be censored by anyone else, that you don't have to think about. It's a robust, stable system that is just
1331
01:48:32.815 --> 01:48:36.975
existing, and you can choose to partake in it and use it if you want to use it.
1332
01:48:38.735 --> 01:48:40.275
And when you go down this
1333
01:48:40.840 --> 01:48:44.619
you go down that route, you go down that route of Bitcoin and simplicity.
1334
01:48:45.880 --> 01:48:53.725
Like, the majority of people are going to be using Bitcoin on Internet connected devices. They're gonna be using it primarily on their mobile phone.
1335
01:48:54.985 --> 01:48:55.945
They're not gonna be
1336
01:48:57.180 --> 01:48:59.520
you know, some people will choose to use hardware wallets.
1337
01:48:59.820 --> 01:49:11.425
Some people will use multi sig. There'll be all different options, shapes, and sizes. People will have different signing devices, different configurations of how they use Bitcoin. But the overwhelming majority of people
1338
01:49:12.045 --> 01:49:13.665
will be using it on
1339
01:49:14.790 --> 01:49:19.290
247 Internet connected mobile phones, period. They will download a mobile app,
1340
01:49:20.310 --> 01:49:22.330
and they will use their Bitcoin on it.
1341
01:49:23.335 --> 01:49:26.955
And that trade off balance between convenience and security will be
1342
01:49:27.575 --> 01:49:31.515
way better than the status quo for the overwhelming majority of people.
1343
01:49:34.300 --> 01:49:49.470
And bit I think Bitcoin is pretend that's not gonna be the case. Like, that's that is that is the trajectory we're going to. If you choose to use your own node, you choose to hold your own keys on offline devices, print them in steel, have them geographically distributed, That's your prerogative.
1344
01:49:49.850 --> 01:49:54.270
That's what we do. But there's gonna be a lot of people that choose not to do that.
1345
01:49:55.050 --> 01:49:58.325
And that's okay. And that's the reality. And but that's the reality we should be,
1346
01:49:58.885 --> 01:50:06.745
you know, building tools and education for. Absolutely. Not us as much. Like, we we still need our tools in education a 100%.
1347
01:50:07.760 --> 01:50:10.820
But, like, when you talk about, like, the next billion, the next 5,000,000,000,
1348
01:50:11.680 --> 01:50:17.300
you have to talk about mobile phones. You have to talk about hot wallets. You have to talk about improving those trade off models.
1349
01:50:17.945 --> 01:50:18.765
Yeah. And I
1350
01:50:19.865 --> 01:50:20.365
think
1351
01:50:21.545 --> 01:50:24.765
I thought you should literally just tick her. You you lost her wedding bed.
1352
01:50:26.619 --> 01:50:28.400
I think this is extremely relevant
1353
01:50:29.179 --> 01:50:29.920
right now
1354
01:50:30.300 --> 01:50:32.159
because we have tools like
1355
01:50:32.619 --> 01:50:38.495
or or companies like Fetti that are building out, you know, Federated Chow Me and Mints which create which are
1356
01:50:39.035 --> 01:50:45.530
a system that allows it does a a really good job of sort of being this middle ground. You know, you have sort of like these fully custodial
1357
01:50:46.150 --> 01:50:52.175
IOU based Bitcoin systems on one end and then you have people like us who are like, you know, or at least me who's like, you know,
1358
01:50:52.735 --> 01:51:02.160
2 of 3 multi sig, you know, I'm attaching 1 to a seal, 1 to an eagle, 1 to a cheetah, releasing them. And if I deserve it, I'll I'll I'll get it back. Well, I like that strategy. And it's good. It's good.
1359
01:51:04.640 --> 01:51:05.940
You're welcome for my sacrifice.
1360
01:51:07.920 --> 01:51:12.285
And I think FEDI, you know, FEDI Mint Federated Economy and Mints are this really, really powerful
1361
01:51:12.745 --> 01:51:15.965
system that acknowledges as you've said before,
1362
01:51:17.545 --> 01:51:21.969
which is that people will take the path of least resistance. And And so it is our responsibility as Bitcoiners
1363
01:51:22.270 --> 01:51:25.329
who are interested in onboarding as many people as possible
1364
01:51:25.630 --> 01:51:30.045
to this thing that is this truly this life raft, this financial life raft
1365
01:51:31.385 --> 01:51:32.845
to creating these systems that
1366
01:51:34.320 --> 01:51:43.025
help people do that in a way that that meets them where they are. And I think systems like Federated Chime Aidments are one of those examples where you can rely on these existing
1367
01:51:43.325 --> 01:51:44.305
trust structures,
1368
01:51:45.085 --> 01:51:50.685
to create these these or rely on your, you know, existing communities. And I think that's really powerful. And I
1369
01:51:52.400 --> 01:51:54.900
on that same note, I've been trying to think of an analogy
1370
01:51:55.440 --> 01:52:00.340
that will re that resonates with people around how important being able to
1371
01:52:01.075 --> 01:52:03.095
have custody of your own,
1372
01:52:03.875 --> 01:52:04.535
you know,
1373
01:52:05.155 --> 01:52:11.840
money. And and I and I read a lot of science fiction. And I I kinda feel like an analogy that works is
1374
01:52:12.780 --> 01:52:16.880
if we were a space faring civilization or when we are a space faring civilization
1375
01:52:18.140 --> 01:52:19.440
the idea that
1376
01:52:20.375 --> 01:52:21.915
you should not have control
1377
01:52:22.295 --> 01:52:23.675
of your own oxygen.
1378
01:52:24.455 --> 01:52:26.475
I think today people today
1379
01:52:27.230 --> 01:52:30.530
would hear, like, oh, yeah. What if the government was like, yo, we get to control
1380
01:52:31.310 --> 01:52:35.250
whether you have oxygen or not? And if we decide you will die of,
1381
01:52:35.595 --> 01:52:36.975
you know, oxygen asphyxiation,
1382
01:52:37.595 --> 01:52:47.540
that is the way it is. The justice system decides that. I think people today would react and be, like, that sounds fucking crazy. No. I think most people would be cool with that. Are you serious? It's for the greater good.
1383
01:52:49.040 --> 01:52:49.860
Shit, man.
1384
01:52:50.160 --> 01:52:57.105
Maybe I give people too much credit. I feel like if if it was literally the idea that, like, you could literally not be provided with oxygen
1385
01:52:58.445 --> 01:53:01.505
just because of, like, a government fuck up, they're like, oh, I'm so sorry.
1386
01:53:02.170 --> 01:53:05.310
Somebody decided that this payment thing about to do that with energy.
1387
01:53:07.929 --> 01:53:21.710
They're literally about to do it with energy. We're gonna see the case study in real time. I think you're right. But I think even energy is, like, farther removed because people have people Yeah. Oxygen is the core. I mean, what? Like, they made the reference in Spaceballs where they had the
1388
01:53:22.170 --> 01:53:26.990
the bottled air. That the rich people drink the bottled air. No. No. But I thought the reference.
1389
01:53:27.405 --> 01:53:28.225
Number 6.
1390
01:53:29.165 --> 01:53:32.705
For those that you were counting, your bingo card is full. You should be drinking right now.
1391
01:53:35.150 --> 01:53:38.610
That's what it's like. Right? Bottle there. I mean, we see it with water, right, already.
1392
01:53:38.910 --> 01:53:44.335
Like, rich people drink bottled purified water. No. But I think it's different. I think of Everyone else's water is contaminated.
1393
01:53:45.355 --> 01:53:47.535
I think of the ability to control
1394
01:53:48.075 --> 01:53:52.580
and have privacy around with how you transact fresh well water. No. No. No.
1395
01:53:53.600 --> 01:54:01.540
I'm talking about oxygen in general. I know. But I just wanted to make sure that the Water Maxi is new that I'm aware that you can still have fresh water that's not bottled.
1396
01:54:02.225 --> 01:54:02.725
Absolutely.
1397
01:54:03.265 --> 01:54:05.925
Do you agree though that, like, I I think of a Bitcoin
1398
01:54:06.305 --> 01:54:06.805
and
1399
01:54:07.665 --> 01:54:08.165
monetary
1400
01:54:08.545 --> 01:54:10.805
freedom as being akin to
1401
01:54:11.550 --> 01:54:12.210
being in
1402
01:54:13.510 --> 01:54:14.010
space
1403
01:54:15.310 --> 01:54:21.355
and not having access to oxygen. And when people are like, oh, you should be you should have to KYC for your
1404
01:54:21.655 --> 01:54:28.490
your your money. You should have to KYC for your Bitcoin. I think of it as like, how would you feel if you had to, like, KYC
1405
01:54:29.030 --> 01:54:33.770
for oxygen? Where you could your ID for oxygen. Yeah. Where you could literally die within
1406
01:54:34.085 --> 01:54:48.590
4 minutes. 4 minutes, you're fucking brain dead. I think of it as the same same level of importance. I love and respect Odell way too much to let him have to actually answer this ridiculous question. Why? I don't think this is ridiculous. But I appreciate your love and respect. I also appreciate your question.
1407
01:54:48.890 --> 01:54:53.315
I think it's a valid question. I I again, I'm sorry. Less of a question than a talking point,
1408
01:54:54.255 --> 01:54:56.014
for the 3 of us. But,
1409
01:54:57.054 --> 01:54:57.554
Like,
1410
01:54:58.240 --> 01:55:11.775
the absurdity of that. No. I mean, I think I think think it's that absurd, truly. I'm not I'm not being Did you really think that's within the realm of possibility? No. No. So what I No. No. No. No. I'm I'm using it as an analogy. Like, what using it's a shitty analogy. So the so, like, Masir,
1411
01:55:13.275 --> 01:55:13.775
Mohammedoff
1412
01:55:18.440 --> 01:55:19.660
had a very
1413
01:55:21.640 --> 01:55:23.660
he had a great line of thinking.
1414
01:55:24.335 --> 01:55:29.235
Very young dude, had a very great line of thinking, like, 2 years ago, then he stepped back behind.
1415
01:55:30.335 --> 01:55:34.940
He stepped back into privacy and didn't want to, you know, be a public figure.
1416
01:55:35.240 --> 01:55:37.580
And what he equated Bitcoin to was time.
1417
01:55:38.680 --> 01:55:42.620
Right? And time is is the most scarce thing we have. Life is short.
1418
01:55:43.155 --> 01:55:45.574
Right? Life is short, and, ultimately,
1419
01:55:45.875 --> 01:55:47.415
everything we do in our life
1420
01:55:48.514 --> 01:55:49.014
is
1421
01:55:49.690 --> 01:55:50.590
exchanging time
1422
01:55:51.850 --> 01:55:52.350
for,
1423
01:55:56.570 --> 01:55:58.830
you know, we're we're exchanging time
1424
01:55:59.155 --> 01:56:05.735
for goods and services, essentially. Right? Or a proxy for that. Right. Or a proxy for that. And the proxy for that for the longest time has been
1425
01:56:06.170 --> 01:56:09.389
has been fiat money that's been controlled by corporations
1426
01:56:10.250 --> 01:56:11.230
and and states.
1427
01:56:12.969 --> 01:56:16.030
And we've essentially been robbed of that time. So you spend,
1428
01:56:16.555 --> 01:56:17.135
you know,
1429
01:56:17.915 --> 01:56:19.135
you you you spend
1430
01:56:20.075 --> 01:56:25.630
your time at work, you go to work, and then you get paid in this inferior good that is essentially
1431
01:56:26.090 --> 01:56:28.110
rug pull by design. They're just taking
1432
01:56:28.570 --> 01:56:32.350
they're taking that time from you over and over again, and you're just losing
1433
01:56:33.130 --> 01:56:33.949
that stored
1434
01:56:35.645 --> 01:56:36.945
value, that stored
1435
01:56:37.885 --> 01:56:40.765
time that is lost. Right? And Bitcoin to
1436
01:56:41.700 --> 01:56:44.680
he I think he perfectly encapsulated that Bitcoin
1437
01:56:45.300 --> 01:56:48.280
is is this embodiment of the value of time.
1438
01:56:48.925 --> 01:56:51.185
So if I put time into doing something,
1439
01:56:51.725 --> 01:56:53.265
I should be able to store
1440
01:56:53.885 --> 01:56:55.745
that effort I put in
1441
01:56:56.350 --> 01:56:57.090
in something
1442
01:56:57.630 --> 01:56:59.090
that's equally durable.
1443
01:57:00.110 --> 01:57:04.450
And and Bitcoin is actually equally durable in that respect.
1444
01:57:04.825 --> 01:57:05.805
And KYC
1445
01:57:06.985 --> 01:57:13.885
steps in the middle of that and as a state and corporate permission layer in between that exchange between time
1446
01:57:16.460 --> 01:57:18.720
and the storage of that effort.
1447
01:57:19.100 --> 01:57:20.720
So here's my rebuttal to that.
1448
01:57:21.740 --> 01:57:22.240
People
1449
01:57:22.975 --> 01:57:33.960
do not I agree. Time is the most precious asset that we have available. If people think Bitcoin scares No. No. Time. Bitcoin is a complete shitcoin compared to time. Yeah. It's time and attention.
1450
01:57:34.580 --> 01:57:36.360
You can never They're 1 in the same.
1451
01:57:36.900 --> 01:57:48.880
Yeah. Okay. Besides you, most of us try and stay as concise as possible. You try and AdWords. I mean, I was about to say, like, I find it. I find this fascinating that p values time so much, given how much of it he weighs.
1452
01:57:50.540 --> 01:57:55.735
Look. I've been talking good point. Wait. Here look here. Professional rug pullover here, this guy.
1453
01:57:56.755 --> 01:58:03.050
I'm absorbing your time and attention in real time right now. You're getting rugged. No. No. Look. I don't think
1454
01:58:03.670 --> 01:58:05.610
I don't think the average person
1455
01:58:08.230 --> 01:58:15.975
values their time enough. And the reason I use oxygen is because Nobody does. Nobody does. No. But people Nobody doesn't. Nobody doesn't. Go watch,
1456
01:58:16.435 --> 01:58:25.054
put it on the plaque, put it on the wall. There you go. Nobody doesn't. Go watch, Matt Adele. Go watch the documentary.
1457
01:58:25.355 --> 01:58:32.335
It's based on Into Thin Air, Everest. Oh, I love it. I love both the book and the movie. Yeah. Right? Go watch that movie
1458
01:58:33.180 --> 01:58:44.445
where they're literally, like once you go above a certain altitude Some more references. I mean, the book is a 1000 times better. At 1,000,000 percent better. You're absolutely right. John Kirkauer. Has there ever been a movie that was better than the book?
1459
01:58:46.025 --> 01:58:49.565
I'm not gonna let you derail this conversation. No. Derail it for a second.
1460
01:58:50.650 --> 01:58:53.790
That has to be right. Oh, I got you.
1461
01:58:54.409 --> 01:58:57.869
Although, this is a terrible example, but Game of Thrones
1462
01:58:58.305 --> 01:59:00.245
because the books never came out.
1463
01:59:01.025 --> 01:59:03.445
No. But the TV show is way worse than the books.
1464
01:59:03.824 --> 01:59:05.125
What about no.
1465
01:59:05.505 --> 01:59:07.125
I I don't know of 1.
1466
01:59:07.580 --> 01:59:09.199
No. I guess National Treasure,
1467
01:59:09.820 --> 01:59:11.840
better or worse than the declaration of independence.
1468
01:59:12.780 --> 01:59:16.480
Okay. That was funny. I did not see that coming. I'd argue I'd argue
1469
01:59:17.165 --> 01:59:18.304
potentially the Marvel
1470
01:59:18.605 --> 01:59:26.970
movies just because they were movies to come. There's, like, hard news. If you disagree with that take, post that in the comments. Yeah. A 100%. Look, I'm gonna shut up for a second. I've been talking a lot. My point is
1471
01:59:27.690 --> 01:59:35.150
I I I lost track of what you were saying. I don't remember what we're talking about. Look. It could have been sarcastic. We would've No. No. That's not sarcastic. I will I will I will put it succinctly.
1472
01:59:35.495 --> 01:59:41.594
Go watch the movie Everest, where literally the thing that kills everyone in that movie is they run out of fucking oxygen
1473
01:59:42.295 --> 02:00:36.320
on Everest. And, like, that's it. They run out of oxygen. They're fucking dead. So it's called the dead zone. There's no new name. I'm a psychopath. I wanna climb out. Okay. Great. But you understand. Right? It's like you go above. You're in this area. There's literally not enough oxygen in order to survive. Some people climb it without oxygen. Yeah. No. No. They're dying. They're they're they they can they can assimilate. They're dying. Yes. Exactly. That's exactly what it is. Like, literally, like, when you go Most of the Sherpas don't climb with oxygen. Yeah. They just pace they're dying. Exactly. They they get up there and down pretty the Sherpas? No. No. They get up and down pretty easily. But once you go above 26,000 feet You only have so much time up there. You're literally dying. Like, you're you you stop being able to digest food, your body your your brain starts swelling, your lungs start filling with fluid, and it's literally it's like the people that are the best adapted, the Sherpas who have grown up their whole lives. They know it's like, yeah. Yeah. You can spend this much time above this this this altitude, and then there's nothing you can do. You're gonna fucking die. And my point is that is the best analogy for k y c Bitcoin.
1474
02:00:37.180 --> 02:00:41.600
No. That is the best analogy for fucking Bitcoin. My point is
1475
02:00:41.935 --> 02:00:43.635
people need to be thinking about
1476
02:00:44.735 --> 02:00:45.955
serenity, sovereignty,
1477
02:00:46.415 --> 02:01:00.745
and being able to control their financial future in the same way that they think Mills is literally, like, dying over here. Look at serenity, sovereignty, mix up is, like Gotcha. That's a pretty fun mix up. I've been talking about go ahead. Somebody else talk. Right now. No. No. No. No. So, like, Bitcoin is oxygen.
1478
02:01:01.685 --> 02:01:06.745
I think that is We have Bitcoin is hope. Then we have all the memes. We have, like, Bitcoin is hope. Bitcoin is time.
1479
02:01:07.070 --> 02:01:11.490
P is Bitcoin is oxygen. I can also buy my bug protein.
1480
02:01:13.630 --> 02:01:14.610
That's his niche.
1481
02:01:14.965 --> 02:01:18.105
I am not going to I will never tweet bitcoin as oxygen.
1482
02:01:18.405 --> 02:01:22.425
My point is I think that these types of analogies are useful to people
1483
02:01:24.060 --> 02:01:24.560
because
1484
02:01:25.820 --> 02:01:27.120
they allow people to
1485
02:01:28.219 --> 02:01:31.280
view it from a different perspective. That's it. That's all my that's all I'll say.
1486
02:01:31.900 --> 02:01:33.040
I would like to say,
1487
02:01:34.105 --> 02:01:39.645
and feel free to quote me on your favorite social media platform if you wish. Bitcoin is oxygen.
1488
02:01:42.219 --> 02:01:46.880
Okay. Wait. Reality check. I'm gonna I'm gonna honestly, I'm gonna be the evo too, and I'm gonna says.
1489
02:01:47.565 --> 02:02:05.380
I'm gonna post it right now so that way people know what night we recorded this. Okay. Wait. Wait. Wait. Real talk. How much have I been talking in this conversation? I I think you've been good. You're fine. I think you've been doing it. Do we quote Odell, or do we quote Pete for this? Definitely quote Odell. I mean, he he said he didn't say it. It's way funnier if you quote Odell. Definitely quote Odell.
1490
02:02:08.265 --> 02:02:09.485
Nels, what do you think?
1491
02:02:09.785 --> 02:02:11.405
Mills has already tweeted it.
1492
02:02:12.105 --> 02:02:16.205
I might have already tweeted it. It's fine. She said she might have already tweeted that. Fair enough.
1493
02:02:16.640 --> 02:02:22.659
Alright. We've been we this is this rip has been going for 2 hours and 5 minutes. Great rip. The movie is better than the book.
1494
02:02:23.605 --> 02:02:28.425
Fight Club the movie is better than the book? I don't I've never read the book, Fight Club. Interesting.
1495
02:02:28.804 --> 02:02:29.625
Thank you.
1496
02:02:30.405 --> 02:02:31.545
Written by someone
NOTE
Transcription provided by Podhome.fm
Created: 3/17/2024 4:23:36 PM
Duration: 7660.643
Channels: 1
1
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2
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Welcome to my studio.
3
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4
00:00:04.880 --> 00:00:07.940
5
00:00:08.275 --> 00:00:13.174
an absurd thing. Is it? Like, this is just SoHo House for Bitcoin or something.
6
00:00:13.715 --> 00:00:24.680
It's better than SoHo House though. Right? Like, is that was that an offensive statement? No. No. No. I meant I meant it as a compliment to you guys. Like, what you guys are trying to build here is truly remarkable. I mean, this
7
00:00:25.605 --> 00:00:26.825
double house situation.
8
00:00:27.365 --> 00:00:32.170
9
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you have memberships and
10
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you have private spaces. You can work. You can meet.
11
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You can collaborate.
12
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We can podcast. Party. You can podcast. We have podcast studios all over.
13
00:00:44.965 --> 00:00:52.700
I think the big difference with between us and and Soho House, the way I think about Bitcoin Park is that Bitcoin Park is really a community initiative.
14
00:00:54.620 --> 00:00:56.400
So it's primarily for
15
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supporting Bitcoin and grassroots Bitcoin adoption and supporting the local community in the area,
16
00:01:04.055 --> 00:01:04.875
rather than,
17
00:01:06.690 --> 00:01:09.110
like, a massively profitable global business.
18
00:01:09.890 --> 00:01:15.190
19
00:01:15.685 --> 00:01:16.345
20
00:01:16.885 --> 00:01:21.225
incentives are good. Like, it'd be nice to have a nice sustainable profit at the park, obviously.
21
00:01:21.925 --> 00:01:24.590
I'm not pretending it's like a nonprofit initiative. But,
22
00:01:25.870 --> 00:01:28.530
at its core at its core, it's a community initiative.
23
00:01:28.830 --> 00:01:32.370
We're gonna have dev workshops here. We're right next to the 2 schools.
24
00:01:33.145 --> 00:01:37.085
The 2 colleges, Vanderbilt and Belmont. We're, like, 2 blocks away from each.
25
00:01:38.744 --> 00:01:40.284
Lot of workshops, education,
26
00:01:42.100 --> 00:01:44.360
private events, public events, the meetup,
27
00:01:45.219 --> 00:01:47.079
bring in local businesses to
28
00:01:47.539 --> 00:01:51.735
sell their wares for Bitcoin. I mean, we had a cocktail bar here accepting Bitcoin,
29
00:01:52.595 --> 00:01:54.455
family coffee shops, stuff like that.
30
00:01:55.075 --> 00:02:01.920
31
00:02:02.300 --> 00:02:07.784
32
00:02:08.325 --> 00:02:13.545
you know so I like to call we have 2 buildings here. Right? I like to call it the campus. Right? The Bitcoin Park campus.
33
00:02:14.710 --> 00:02:19.850
In the other building, there's a fully functioning coffee shop that just, like, came with the property.
34
00:02:20.710 --> 00:02:35.920
So we just stumbled into this coffee shop with a full espresso machine. Like, that's a really expensive espresso machine. It's like a $15,000 espresso. Wait. They they just left the espresso machine behind? No. No. They fucking bought it as part of the building. It's, like, included. It's in it was included in the deal. They they wanted
35
00:02:36.379 --> 00:02:41.920
to leave us as many things as bought. Like, these chairs we're sitting on were left with with from the previous tenants.
36
00:02:43.455 --> 00:02:47.795
This table we brought, but it's, like, one of the few things we actually brought to the park.
37
00:02:48.334 --> 00:02:50.194
It was in Rod's garage previously.
38
00:02:51.190 --> 00:02:53.610
But, anyway, we had a fully functioning coffee shop.
39
00:02:54.150 --> 00:03:04.555
But, like, we're not trying to run a coffee business, but we enjoy coffee. So what do we what do we decide to do? We reached out to 3 different local coffee shops, all family owned operations.
40
00:03:05.975 --> 00:03:15.220
They come in. They man the coffee shop during our events. They supply us bags of coffee for throughout the week when members are here, and they're working and whatnot.
41
00:03:16.319 --> 00:03:17.700
And one of the families
42
00:03:20.125 --> 00:03:22.185
is straight up, they have, you know,
43
00:03:24.084 --> 00:03:28.500
they have they their children run the whole operation. They roast the beans. They do everything.
44
00:03:29.200 --> 00:03:29.700
And
45
00:03:30.000 --> 00:03:32.500
none of these coffee shops were Bitcoiners ahead of time.
46
00:03:32.879 --> 00:03:38.955
So they came in. We're like, we just wanna support local business. We have this new money called Bitcoin,
47
00:03:39.575 --> 00:03:44.155
and we got them hooked up to accept Bitcoin, and and now they're slowly getting orange filled.
48
00:03:44.760 --> 00:03:47.660
49
00:03:47.960 --> 00:03:49.820
fulfilling the mission of Bitcoin Park.
50
00:03:50.840 --> 00:04:00.444
The one you just learned about 30 seconds ago Yes. In this conversation. Yes. Got it. Almost as if he curated that story to fulfill and come full circle from the mission he shared originally.
51
00:04:01.519 --> 00:04:03.700
52
00:04:04.480 --> 00:04:09.700
a lot of these, like, Bitcoin embassies, like, in 2014 and stuff pop up all around the world.
53
00:04:11.675 --> 00:04:18.335
And a lot of them just weren't sustainable. They didn't, like, survive. What what like, where was an embassy? What did it have? Like,
54
00:04:18.759 --> 00:04:29.895
I was not in Bitcoin in 2014. I was in So we had one in New York, you know, that I wasn't involved with, but that existed in New York. And they had, like, an ATM. They had hardware wallets on display, stuff like that.
55
00:04:31.175 --> 00:04:32.875
But it was mostly just a storefront.
56
00:04:33.975 --> 00:04:35.735
Interesting. They had these things called,
57
00:04:36.210 --> 00:04:37.889
I forgot what they called it, but it was,
58
00:04:39.889 --> 00:04:54.905
certain days you could go there and you could trade Bitcoin peer to peer. They had, like, a little stand. Someone would stand up there and they would, like, shout orders, like, like, the pit. Wait. Are you serious? Yeah. That's incredible. Wait. Was this, like, a LARP? Like but a LARP in the best possible way. Like, people would literally stand in the pit and be like,
59
00:04:55.450 --> 00:05:08.514
and then I don't know. I was never there for it, but I I knew about it. It was it was all the way downtown Wall Street. And I don't know if peep if you guys know New York, but, like, if Mhmm. I had no reason to ever really be in that area.
60
00:05:09.294 --> 00:05:13.480
It's got it's kinda like a whole separate part of the city. I'm gonna choose to interpret that as preempted.
61
00:05:14.180 --> 00:05:17.960
Exactly how it went. But there was one in Montreal that I went to that the bull Bitcoin guys,
62
00:05:18.420 --> 00:05:23.445
before bull Bitcoin existed, we're running like Francis is running that one. I think it still exists.
63
00:05:24.305 --> 00:05:26.805
The Montreal one was interesting because when I was
64
00:05:27.905 --> 00:05:29.125
it must have been
65
00:05:29.830 --> 00:05:31.050
2014 or 2015.
66
00:05:32.630 --> 00:05:35.130
We were at a wedding in Montreal with my family,
67
00:05:35.670 --> 00:05:41.135
and they at that point, they thought I was just a crazy young kid that was into this, you know, fake money
68
00:05:41.755 --> 00:05:44.495
on the Internet. And they saw, like, the Bitcoin storefront.
69
00:05:45.659 --> 00:06:12.755
And, like, that was what gave it credibility. They were like, they were like, oh, he's not crazy. I was like, oh, thanks, ma. Yeah. Like, you we like, you didn't even anyone could open a storefront. Like, how did that how did that create the credibility? You I mean, you could have literally just paid someone ahead of time. They're like, yo, just put up signage in front of this for 24 hours. But, anyway, my point is it's not really a new idea, but we are seeing a resurgence in it. And we're also seeing a resurgence in the idea of merchants accepting Bitcoin, and both were kind of false starts in 2014, 2015.
70
00:06:13.215 --> 00:06:25.780
And I think this time, we actually have some real momentum. And I think with the park, what's really key is that that we do have, you know, this a more sustainable model, which is, you know, annual dues for a set amount of members, only a 100 members.
71
00:06:27.445 --> 00:06:30.585
And they they make the park sustainable. And, also, just
72
00:06:31.125 --> 00:06:36.550
this bear market is different than all the other bear markets. There's there's still a lot of sustained interest. You know? You're actually able
73
00:06:39.729 --> 00:06:43.190
to, you know, run one of these things without completely bleeding money.
74
00:06:44.635 --> 00:06:45.695
75
00:06:46.395 --> 00:06:49.215
you know, that idea that it was a false start.
76
00:06:49.915 --> 00:06:54.539
So the last time you saw transactions happening as merchants started adopting.
77
00:06:55.960 --> 00:06:58.220
And was what was the sentiment then
78
00:06:58.840 --> 00:06:59.340
throughout
79
00:06:59.845 --> 00:07:02.265
Bitcoin, Twitter, throughout just Bitcoin in general,
80
00:07:02.725 --> 00:07:04.345
was that the moment where
81
00:07:05.525 --> 00:07:07.065
it was over exuberance
82
00:07:07.365 --> 00:07:14.220
and not a lot of humility and work being done? Or were there just mistakes being made, bad attempts,
83
00:07:14.760 --> 00:07:15.660
poor projects
84
00:07:16.505 --> 00:07:23.645
85
00:07:24.425 --> 00:07:25.405
when this happened?
86
00:07:26.120 --> 00:07:29.660
Who were you wearing, I should say? And what what year was this?
87
00:07:31.000 --> 00:07:32.700
88
00:07:33.884 --> 00:07:45.170
89
00:07:46.510 --> 00:07:48.930
90
00:07:49.230 --> 00:07:49.730
Alright.
91
00:07:50.350 --> 00:07:50.850
But,
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no. I mean, the difference with the merchant adoption
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back then was it was it was mostly BitPay,
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which,
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you know, had made horrible decisions as a company since then,
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to say the least. It was mostly BitPay signing up like big names. So they would sign up like AT and T, and they'd be like, AT and T accepts Bitcoin. And everyone on Twitter and Reddit would go crazy. Reddit was bigger back then. Bitcoin Talk, IRC.
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You know, the channels were a little bit different. Bitcoin Twitter was didn't really get off the ground hard until, like, 2017, but it existed.
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And, like, people would get super, super fucking excited about this new major corp accepting Bitcoin.
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But, like, the corp wasn't really accepting Bitcoin. They were just
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integrating BitPay and then receiving dollars on the back end, and BitPay was presumably, you know, giving them some kind of sweetheart deal to get it because the press releases were good for BitPay,
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perceived good for Bitcoin.
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So there was no real buy in from the corpse, and they weren't holding Bitcoin. They were just immediately converting it to Fiat.
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Another issue
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that I
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think, another issue is we obviously didn't have lightning.
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And, you know, the lightning privacy discussion is very nuanced discussion. Like, it's not it shouldn't be considered like a private privacy
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panacea. Like, it's not a perfect solution.
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But on the sender side, when you're sending with lightning, you do get some
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all things equal, you get some privacy improvements.
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Specifically, it's hard for the recipient to know, you know, which Bitcoin funded that transaction.
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So you don't have that liability that's attached,
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that data liability, that trail of Bitcoin history that's attached to it. So if you notice,
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a lot of the newcomers I mean, obviously, we have BTC pay service since then, which is massive. I mean, we have a sovereign way for merchants to accept Bitcoin and hold Bitcoin.
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But if you see the newcomers like Ibex and Strike,
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they're going lightning only. They're not accepting on chain. And because they're not accepting on chain, they don't have to deal with situations of you not paying the right amount. They don't have to do deal with situations where blocks are full and the confirmation isn't happening right away. They don't have to deal with situations where
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they might feel compelled to use a chain surveillance tool because they have this whole history there.
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So I think
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from that side,
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you know, lightning being at and, obviously, like, lightning is not perfect. I think there's still a lot of work to be done. But on that side, it it really sets us up in a more positive foundation. But on top of the whole thing, really should be,
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I wanna see merchants
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accept Bitcoin and hold Bitcoin.
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Ideally, I wanna see them do it in a completely sovereign way.
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But even if they use something like Ibex or OpenNode,
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hold the Bitcoin afterwards. Hold a portion of the Bitcoin afterwards.
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And in that way,
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I know me personally, like, I'd be more likely to spend at a merchant
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that is partaking in the in the Bitcoin circular pot economy. They're actually holding Bitcoin. They're using Bitcoin to to buy their their goods that they need.
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And I think that's the difference. The difference here is
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there's a real push towards this circular economy
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rather than
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immediate conversion to fiat by Mega Corp. So Microsoft added Bitcoin support.
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They didn't really. You know? They were just
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BetPay was facilitating us to market, you know,
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just sell our sell our coin right at time of purchase. Boom. Done.
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I wanna sort of hear your experience as somebody who's been deeply associated with the space for so long.
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We're in a bear market right now
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and it feels very different from the bear market last cycle.
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Last cycle was my first bear. I'm just trying to mind my p's and q's.
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what you do because it opens you up
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I'm just very surprised
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how
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much,
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like, fervor and interest there
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is in in this cycle even as we are in a bear market. And you mentioned lightning. You mentioned having a a large aspect of that. But I'm curious if you have thoughts just in terms of the,
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kind of the cultural
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milieu that's that we exist in right now and how that's different from the last cycle as well. Well, I first of all, I'm a strong believer in the the 4 year having cycle.
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but it's still not priced in appropriately. Like, it just
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for whatever reason, like, people are fucking idiots.
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You know? I I kind of believe the concept of if we have truly free markets, they should be efficient. They should price in everything instantly
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or theoretically instantly, but it just doesn't happen for whatever reason. And maybe I I I'm I'm kind of a believer that
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as we go further along in the Bitcoin adoption cycle,
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the overall cycle,
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maybe it does start to get more efficient and more priced in just because
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there is this concern that happens every time we have a having that, they're mining death spiral. Will Bitcoin survive the having, you know, all this other stuff? And as time goes on,
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obviously, people's conviction in Bitcoin grows and their confidence in Bitcoin grows. So that should edge out to a degree.
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I think, first of all, obviously,
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every cycle, more people adopt Bitcoin. So we just have a net absolute number of more Bitcoiners,
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period.
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I think that number just goes up into the right always pretty much. You know? Obviously, it'll go up and down short term, but long term is just constant adoption increase. Right?
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So we have that. The second thing is this is not a typical Bitcoin bear market. This is the first Bitcoin bear market
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that exists in a global macro crisis bear market recession type of scenario. Like, we've been in the most
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you know, we've been in in arguably the the longest, hardest,
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strongest bull market in human history on the macro side
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in Bitcoin's existence.
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And this is the first time we've had a bear market where we've not been in that situation. So regardless of your views, if we're in an all out recession,
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if we're in a macro downtrend, whatever it is, we're clearly not in the kind of raging bull that we've been in on a macro side for however long because of money printing, whatnot.
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So that's the second reason. And I I think I think what happens is you you combine the 2 of those. Right? You have
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adoption combined with the fact that we're in, like, a macro crisis mode,
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and it comes down to okay. Like, okay. My Bitcoin holdings are down. But, like,
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if you hold Netflix, that's, like, down 80% or something crazy. I don't know the exact numbers. Like, Apple's down. Google's down.
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Twitter's down. Like, everything's fucking down. Real estate's like, people are getting scared on real estate.
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And at the at the same time, we have all these inflation
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concerns. We have all these other concerns. So when you have all these concerns, it's like, okay. Bitcoin is hope. To me, Bitcoin has always been hope. Right? It's something I'm optimistic about. It's something I'm positive about.
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It's it's something that's good for our future.
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Right? So when you have all this disaster and crisis and bullshit
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surrounding you and then Bitcoin is that light, then, of course, people are still gonna be interested when the price is down in this situation. Right? But there's definitely you definitely see a downtick
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in terms
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of the amount of people active in the space compared to maybe 6 months ago or something like that. Absolutely. Like, there's a significant
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there's a significant
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drop. But the the the thing is is, like, the people that
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people that stick around during these moments
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and they don't actually have to be active. If they're just passively stacking,
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like, that works just as well. But the people that are are still focused on improving their Bitcoin situation, accumulating Bitcoin, like, those are the people that end up doing the best or the people that stay around during these times.
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Seen it time and time again.
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You're an old ass man. Old old ass man. Yeah. No one's older than you, though.
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it doesn't matter what time you when you come into Bitcoin, you'll always think you're late.
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And I'll I'll borrow from someone else. I forget who said this, but
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the meme, we're still early.
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That continues until people are mostly earning Bitcoin rather than buying Bitcoin. If you're buying Bitcoin, you're early. Yeah. I think that's the I think that is such an important point. And even as we were heading up to, you know, 69
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Nice.
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Is
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people would would come in and they'd be like, hey. Like, I you know, it's too late. I haven't bought enough or I don't have enough or I shouldn't be buying Bitcoin. And you're absolutely right that until everyone is being paid in Bitcoin, until the expectation
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is you're paid in Bitcoin. And when you're paid in US dollars, it's like,
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fuck man. Like, I got this job that for whatever reason, like, won't pay me in Bitcoin until we reach that point.
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the collective get paid in Bitcoin first, or do we start to price our goods in Bitcoin first?
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Chicken or egg.
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I think unit of account first.
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I don't know.
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It's definitely not my
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like, Murad has that great chart. Where does Murad where does Murad put it? I'm just I think I think they kind of happen at the same time.
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It kinda happened at the same time, but in my mind, unit of account comes first just because
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I'm
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earning mostly Bitcoin right now, but I'm not earning
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a 100% of Bitcoin.
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And Bitcoin's been my unit of account for a while.
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Like, I price everything. Everything's priced in Bitcoin. Right.
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I I I'm more meaning in the sense of, like, mass adoption. Like, when is it Right. But so, like, I'm maybe I'm a microcosm
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So how how would And I take its unit of account first.
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a lot of people that get paid in Bitcoin,
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including myself right now,
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my actual
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like, the contract is priced in dollars, and it's the Bitcoin at the current US price. So that would point to the other way. Yeah. I don't know. There's there's definitely someone who's gonna be listening to this. It's like, Matt, you're just completely wrong. And I just I felt like it was a 100% gotcha question. So whoever you are, you're right.
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I'm wrong. Bitcoin is gonna become the money of the world regardless. I don't really care which one comes first.
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But I think we all agree
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that,
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pretty much most people agree that the store value comes first. That Bitcoin is treated as,
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a wealth preserving, wealth accrual mechanism before it's considered medium of exchange or unit of account.
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it was a very eloquent answer.
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I wanna shift topics and talk about
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the
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specifically around food. I know that you've been,
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like, you know, significantly involved in a beef initiative. You've been doing some amazing work.
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I think Hugh brought the mezcal. Piece of shit.
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the undeniable
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mills.
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That burned so good. This is Fiji Water. It was collected by orphans.
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Their tiny hands can fit between the rocks. Okay. I sidetracked you. What was your question?
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I wasn't
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done. Orphans.
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Orphans mine the best water and also the best Bitcoin. Okay. So here's my question.
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There's this there's a level of kind of
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fascination with the food supply around Bitcoin. Alright. Right? So he here's my question.
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There's a level of hypocrisy
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significant amount of hypocrisy that exists within Bitcoin around food.
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I have been
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shocked.
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Nay,
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appalled
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that people are not more willing to adopt
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insects
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as a food source. Look, here's the deal. Here's the deal.
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I feel like there this is actually a serious question. I feel like there is this
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anti insect
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focus
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because
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the WEF which fuck those people
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Why do you think there is such pushback against the idea of insect protein
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as a food source? And the I say this within the context of things like lobster, crab
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used to be considered garbage food. Yeah. They would, like, feed that to the slaves and Exactly. And for very good reason. Of the cows. Lobsters and crabs, they literally eat human shit off of the ocean floor in the bays that humans And shrimp. I mean, this is just anti shellfish that doesn't No. No. No. It's pro bug. You No. No. Look. Don't this is the man who eat dog food live on air. That was disgusting. It was so good. It was so good. Okay. So so here's my take.
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I believe everyone should have the freedom to choose whatever
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they want to put in their body.
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I think a lot of the concerns over this insect
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food
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thing is that it's being almost
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Being forced. It's it's being prepared to be forced upon people. 100%. And I think it will be forced on lower class people. Just like lobster was. So
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just yeah. So I
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I think
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what I want to see is I wanna see as many people as possible have
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access
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to
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good food, good nutritious food,
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and have choice about what they actually consume.
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And I think Bitcoin as a tool of individual empowerment
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on the wealth
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and
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spending side
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is key to that
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plan, but also
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like, a key key to that mission, but also is supporting local
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family farms and ranches that are doing proper sustainable practices, doing regenerative agriculture. They're not introducing chemicals to their soil and to their to their to their animals.
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So you actually have, like, really good quality food. And we've gone away from that. Like, the the fiat incentives, the overregulation
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has resulted in this corruption of our food supply where the majority of food that people eat is just absolute fucking garbage.
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Now
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where it looks like we're going is we're gonna have similar absolute garbage. It's just gonna be
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built with bug protein.
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Right? And I and what I would say is we should just move away from the absolute garbage period.
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When is when is this episode going up?
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This is a perfect time to show the beef initiative that's gonna be in Georgia.
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It's gonna be,
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in Bluffton, Georgia at White Oak Pastures, which are one of the largest regenerative agriculture,
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ranches operations in the country.
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September,
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like, the 2nd week of September.
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And if you go to beefinitiative.com,
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you can go to that, and I recommend,
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people consider it. I went to the beef initiative,
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in Colorado. It was an absolutely special experience.
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It was really cool. You got to meet all these family ranchers.
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We taught them something about Bitcoin. They taught us about food and ranching.
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It was a true honor to participate in that. It's a really cool
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cool movement.
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Basically, empowering the rancher, empowering the consumer, bringing them together. I think if I was gonna distill beef initiative in one word, it'd be coordination.
319
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Just bringing empowered individuals together, coordinating them,
320
00:25:27.059 --> 00:25:32.200
and helping, you know, just neighbors helping neighbors. It's just really fucking cool. And doing that. And
321
00:25:33.365 --> 00:25:38.825
you can just have fun eating your bug protein. But I'll just I'll just No. No. Me and my family will consume high quality
322
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323
00:25:46.919 --> 00:25:48.299
324
00:25:48.865 --> 00:25:50.885
benefit from the generosity of the Odell's,
325
00:25:51.585 --> 00:25:53.265
I will continue to eat your incredible,
326
00:25:53.905 --> 00:25:54.645
high quality
327
00:25:54.945 --> 00:25:56.085
beef initiative protein.
328
00:25:56.545 --> 00:25:58.380
But you've you actually have kind of
329
00:25:59.500 --> 00:26:00.000
succinctly
330
00:26:01.820 --> 00:26:05.120
given me an answer, which is the pushback is not based
331
00:26:05.460 --> 00:26:05.960
on
332
00:26:06.300 --> 00:26:08.000
333
00:26:08.315 --> 00:26:26.535
where they have the train and they're going around Yeah. In the ice age or whatever? Yeah. Yeah. A 100%. And, like, the rich people are eating the good stuff. And then And then it's like all the poors are eating bug protein. And they don't know they're eating bug protein until they revolt. And then they see it, and then they revolt even harder. Right? 100%. That's kind of where we're going. No. What no. No. But but I think just
334
00:26:27.095 --> 00:26:32.715
335
00:26:33.095 --> 00:26:33.820
is it's
336
00:26:34.139 --> 00:26:34.639
connecting
337
00:26:35.019 --> 00:26:36.960
consumers of high quality protein
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00:26:37.500 --> 00:26:41.440
directly with the producers of high quality protein and and disintermediating
339
00:26:41.899 --> 00:26:45.005
that process. Because right now, in America, like, if you're buying
340
00:26:45.385 --> 00:26:46.845
protein, if you're buying meat
341
00:26:47.465 --> 00:26:51.645
in a in a in most stores Supermarket. Yeah. In a supermarket,
342
00:26:51.990 --> 00:26:56.010
You it has gone through so many fucked up levels of,
343
00:26:56.390 --> 00:26:58.650
like, this just Byzantine production process,
344
00:26:59.110 --> 00:27:08.985
345
00:27:09.789 --> 00:27:12.049
and we see this so much in our society
346
00:27:12.350 --> 00:27:14.210
is even things like the,
347
00:27:15.309 --> 00:27:19.090
butcher's box, right, which is supposedly targeted at people that care more about,
348
00:27:20.085 --> 00:27:23.865
their food their food supply and whatnot. Like, that comes from fucking Australia.
349
00:27:24.805 --> 00:27:26.585
Like, they make it seem like artisanal,
350
00:27:26.950 --> 00:27:30.169
you know, quality beef or whatever. But it's like, those are Australian cows
351
00:27:30.950 --> 00:27:36.649
352
00:27:38.375 --> 00:27:41.495
353
00:27:42.295 --> 00:27:48.140
there's something to be said about, you know, we are trying to build a robust system in Bitcoin. Right?
354
00:27:48.600 --> 00:27:49.580
A robust system
355
00:27:49.960 --> 00:27:50.460
that
356
00:27:52.495 --> 00:27:56.435
you can rely on, and and you can have confidence building,
357
00:27:57.775 --> 00:28:04.910
you know, building your future with your family on this system. Right? And when we look at all of our other systems, we have a, you know,
358
00:28:05.610 --> 00:28:07.070
a corruption of systems
359
00:28:07.450 --> 00:28:11.705
throughout our whole lives. And one of the key ones is is our food our food supply
360
00:28:12.085 --> 00:28:18.265
and how we get food and how we judge which food is good and and and and and how we consume that food.
361
00:28:18.640 --> 00:28:20.900
And a very easy way
362
00:28:21.520 --> 00:28:24.420
of improving that situation is to get back to the basics,
363
00:28:25.200 --> 00:28:27.060
have sustainable local economies.
364
00:28:27.565 --> 00:28:29.745
Right? And we go back to the circular economy. So
365
00:28:30.365 --> 00:28:34.625
beef initiative is really interesting because Bitcoin is an aspect there. Like, we are
366
00:28:35.410 --> 00:28:39.670
helping provide. So I'm more integral in the beef initiative process because,
367
00:28:40.210 --> 00:28:49.335
I mean, we have mills here. Like, we we're creating the Tennessee beef initiative. Right? So they have the Texas beef initiative. Tennessee beef initiative is gonna be the first one outside of Texas.
368
00:28:49.635 --> 00:28:51.495
But the goal is for this to be global.
369
00:28:51.800 --> 00:28:54.940
I'd like, as you know, like like I said, there's gonna be a Georgia event.
370
00:28:56.040 --> 00:29:09.325
So, like, I've been getting I've been getting heavily involved, and one of the key things is is so not only does the beef initiative provide education and coordination, but there's also a full tech stack. Because a lot of these ranchers, like,
371
00:29:09.809 --> 00:29:11.669
they understand personal responsibility.
372
00:29:11.970 --> 00:29:12.710
They understand
373
00:29:13.090 --> 00:29:13.830
the need,
374
00:29:14.610 --> 00:29:16.470
for tools that protect them.
375
00:29:17.090 --> 00:29:25.795
But they have a full time job, and that's running the farm. Right? And they don't know how to set up a website or accept payments or ship out things.
376
00:29:26.660 --> 00:29:30.360
So there's a full tech stack that's provided that not only lets them accept Bitcoin.
377
00:29:30.740 --> 00:29:40.285
That's optional. It also lets them accept fiat. Right? It gives them that full direct to consumer stack. And then on top of that, you also have the exposure if they choose to join the beef initiative
378
00:29:40.585 --> 00:29:43.645
and be a part of this, you know, global community that cares about
379
00:29:44.390 --> 00:29:46.570
their food reliability and their food quality.
380
00:29:48.870 --> 00:29:51.370
381
00:29:51.845 --> 00:29:53.685
when I have my insect milk farm
382
00:29:55.205 --> 00:30:03.090
383
00:30:03.549 --> 00:30:10.049
we will have our own circular economy where we trade, buy, eat, and sell beef. I like to think that all of
384
00:30:10.815 --> 00:30:14.675
385
00:30:14.975 --> 00:30:22.169
Yeah. 100%. 100%. No. No. That that I'll just say Yeah. That'd be just great to go over for dinner. It's like, the queues, they're so nice. You know, they're here.
386
00:30:22.549 --> 00:30:23.450
387
00:30:23.990 --> 00:30:25.929
mama q, brother q. Q1, q3,
388
00:30:26.230 --> 00:30:29.934
q4. Yeah. Yeah. Now all the looking aside that that I that I'm seeing is,
389
00:30:32.075 --> 00:30:35.934
390
00:30:38.220 --> 00:30:45.360
I will not be silenced. I mean But it's not as I would say that, you know, like, Bitcoin is we have a very diverse group of stakeholders.
391
00:30:45.725 --> 00:30:50.305
Bitcoiners have all walks in lives. I mean, we have vegan Bitcoiners. Right? Like, it's not like all Bitcoiners
392
00:30:51.725 --> 00:30:55.380
are necessarily pro beef. But I think I think most Bitcoiners are
393
00:30:56.240 --> 00:31:01.460
pro quality food that's not, you know, corrupted by bullshit. So I wanna unpack that because
394
00:31:02.080 --> 00:31:03.380
395
00:31:03.885 --> 00:31:05.424
the seed oil disrespectors
396
00:31:05.804 --> 00:31:09.105
and everyone who is anti seed oil. Very necessary.
397
00:31:09.485 --> 00:31:16.860
We're just this anti seed oil community that also likes Bitcoin. Okay. Continue. But no. No. And there's nothing wrong with that. But what I'm the point I wanna make is
398
00:31:17.320 --> 00:31:18.620
seed oils is only
399
00:31:19.080 --> 00:31:22.865
one part of the recipe that has these preservatives in it.
400
00:31:23.325 --> 00:31:39.495
So, like, I'm just gonna call out someone like Joe Consorti who, like, will talk about seed oils and then literally post a picture with a monster energy drink. And I feel like there's a lot of No. No. No. The last time he did that, he he He crossed out water. He crossed out monster and wrote water. You're right. You're right. So that made it water. But
401
00:31:39.975 --> 00:31:54.840
402
00:31:55.345 --> 00:32:03.045
What is in Bud Light Seltzer? Water, cold fermented cane sugar, natural flavors, cane sugar, citric acid, sodium citrate, malted rice.
403
00:32:04.070 --> 00:32:11.930
So not as bad as other things. You're telling me that's, like, better than the seed oils that you It's definitely better than the seed oils. I think I'm not a nutritionist. Just disclosure.
404
00:32:12.735 --> 00:32:14.675
Disclosure. Consult your local nutritionist.
405
00:32:15.295 --> 00:32:16.015
No. I would,
406
00:32:17.135 --> 00:32:25.890
I think look. There's there's there's, like, look. You're smoking like the jewels. Like, there's plenty of places for us to improve, but I've I've noticed this with, like, the Bitcoin privacy discussion.
407
00:32:26.434 --> 00:32:31.575
It's, like, don't let perfect be the enemy of of of good. Yeah. And, like, we can improve
408
00:32:32.434 --> 00:32:35.650
slow and steady. Every little improvement does help. So you don't
409
00:32:36.590 --> 00:32:38.450
like, I probably shouldn't be an alcoholic.
410
00:32:39.230 --> 00:32:42.930
Right? Like, I'm willing to admit that. Like, I probably drink way too much.
411
00:32:44.215 --> 00:32:46.075
But I enjoy it, and life is short.
412
00:32:46.615 --> 00:32:52.875
But, like, at least I'm not, you know, eating the bugs or eating seed oils, and I'm helping Woah. Woah. Woah. Local family farms,
413
00:32:53.760 --> 00:32:54.820
you know, be sustainable
414
00:32:56.000 --> 00:33:02.820
and flourish and and and then I get the benefit of good food. You fed me that c seed oil filled meal
415
00:33:03.125 --> 00:33:04.025
416
00:33:04.804 --> 00:33:06.904
417
00:33:07.684 --> 00:33:19.039
Red hot chocolate beverage. What meal? Oh, yeah. I did. Well So wait wait. You know, they don't have good food at at at Nissan Stadium. So what are you supposed to do? We're just gonna starve?
418
00:33:19.355 --> 00:33:38.865
I guess we should have brought our own box lunch is what we really should have done, but it was our first time in the suite. No. That was that was that was fucked up. You guys both fucked up. I was not able to join. I'm sorry. You should have clearly brought your own cow. I don't know if you can Into the box, slaughtered it last. I don't know if you can do that. Built out a a fire and then roasted it. You definitely can't do that one.
419
00:33:39.645 --> 00:33:45.640
420
00:33:46.580 --> 00:33:53.240
421
00:33:54.165 --> 00:34:00.665
what was perceived as potentially the best quality stuff. Like, what we had, like, pulled chicken and pulled pork was like and it was just, like, in a bowl.
422
00:34:01.320 --> 00:34:07.340
Right? Like, we could've gotten chicken fingers that were fried in seed oils, french fries that were fried in seed oils. That.
423
00:34:07.880 --> 00:34:11.825
Yeah. There was, like, we could've done worse. I think for stadium food, we did pretty good.
424
00:34:12.125 --> 00:34:24.140
Once again, don't let perfect be the enemy of good. Okay. I'm just being an asshole here. I'm gonna ask one more question, and then I promise I will shut up about insect milk. Yeah. This is supposed to be a Bitcoin conversation. Yeah. We're but I'm Oh, I'm so mad right now. I'm not mad. No. Beef initiative.com.
425
00:34:25.080 --> 00:34:31.505
426
00:34:33.165 --> 00:34:36.225
427
00:34:37.589 --> 00:34:43.130
428
00:34:43.750 --> 00:34:45.849
If I served a meal
429
00:34:46.705 --> 00:34:47.525
that was
430
00:34:48.545 --> 00:34:49.045
homegrown.
431
00:34:49.345 --> 00:34:50.405
432
00:34:51.745 --> 00:34:52.245
433
00:34:52.945 --> 00:34:55.285
He definitely has hand fed artisanal
434
00:34:57.490 --> 00:35:11.615
435
00:35:12.310 --> 00:35:21.050
436
00:35:21.365 --> 00:35:37.740
437
00:35:38.520 --> 00:35:39.580
438
00:35:41.465 --> 00:35:46.765
if it was actually, like, these are high quality insects that are fed like human
439
00:35:47.065 --> 00:35:50.270
quality food, and it's super high quality protein.
440
00:35:51.210 --> 00:35:56.190
441
00:35:56.605 --> 00:36:15.730
Then I'll be like, surprise, motherfucker. It's fucking bugs. Yeah. That's happening. Literally. Never eat anything besides the chicken. Shouldn't, like, trick people into eating bugs. Gonna trick people into eating bugs. That you're part of the problem. Before it hits your lips, you're gonna know. I'm gonna I'm gonna call I'm gonna call it on the bugs. I appreciate how how receptive you were to to p's questioning.
442
00:36:16.435 --> 00:36:21.415
443
00:36:23.859 --> 00:36:24.680
We'll buy that.
444
00:36:24.980 --> 00:36:34.335
445
00:36:35.035 --> 00:36:40.070
446
00:36:40.710 --> 00:36:41.210
447
00:36:42.310 --> 00:36:53.724
448
00:36:54.265 --> 00:36:55.724
our generation has been?
449
00:36:56.184 --> 00:37:15.765
I've long felt like our generation was gonna be that 1st generation where when the president of the United States was our age, there was so much shit in their closet. But because they posted it all on Instagram and Facebook, like Oh, we haven't gotten there yet. That's probably gonna happen. But but it will eventually. But, like, what's happening? What's gonna happen is the true psychopaths are gonna be
450
00:37:16.190 --> 00:37:17.010
451
00:37:17.630 --> 00:37:26.675
our already our politicians, and it's gonna become even more so because, like, every normal person's gonna have a 1,000,000 skeletons in their closet, and it's gonna be like that one buttered up person
452
00:37:27.215 --> 00:37:27.715
who
453
00:37:28.815 --> 00:37:34.900
did even more fucked up things, but they just didn't post on the Internet is the one who's gonna be fucking elected. Really
454
00:37:35.920 --> 00:37:38.339
high quality poor. That was good. Thank you.
455
00:37:38.880 --> 00:37:39.380
I,
456
00:37:43.145 --> 00:37:45.244
you know, it's it's not a good situation.
457
00:37:45.945 --> 00:37:50.744
And I I thought I thought that Snowden when Snowden was, like, 2013, I thought Snowden,
458
00:37:51.890 --> 00:37:54.870
revelations was gonna wake people up. It really did nothing.
459
00:37:56.290 --> 00:37:58.790
I mean, it woke me up. It woke some people up,
460
00:38:00.745 --> 00:38:03.085
but it didn't really wake that many people up.
461
00:38:03.945 --> 00:38:06.525
We have never been in this situation before.
462
00:38:07.385 --> 00:38:07.885
We
463
00:38:08.265 --> 00:38:12.579
live in a completely digital can you stop grinding your chair into
464
00:38:12.960 --> 00:38:25.045
465
00:38:25.505 --> 00:38:26.325
466
00:38:26.625 --> 00:38:27.605
insect milk
467
00:38:28.220 --> 00:38:28.720
apocalypse
468
00:38:29.420 --> 00:38:30.640
agenda. Continue, please.
469
00:38:31.340 --> 00:38:32.800
Jesus fucking Christ.
470
00:38:33.180 --> 00:38:37.845
471
00:38:38.305 --> 00:38:45.765
Right? And we've never dealt with the repercussions of this type of digital panopticon, and it's coming from all sides because
472
00:38:46.560 --> 00:38:48.980
we have these massive global corporations
473
00:38:49.280 --> 00:38:51.460
that are basically built on data monetization.
474
00:38:51.760 --> 00:38:52.420
And then
475
00:38:53.440 --> 00:39:03.865
we have countries and governments that are also surveilling on us, and they're working together in a lot of lot of times. It's they're either working together intentionally. Can you not draw on the table
476
00:39:04.885 --> 00:39:05.705
with a Sharpie?
477
00:39:07.290 --> 00:39:07.870
I know.
478
00:39:08.410 --> 00:39:11.230
We are they're sometimes working together,
479
00:39:12.330 --> 00:39:15.950
and sometimes they're pressured. Like, we saw on the Snowden docs, like, a lot of the
480
00:39:17.195 --> 00:39:20.815
a lot of the tech companies were were pressured, and they had to sign a
481
00:39:21.275 --> 00:39:25.730
a gag order. They had to sign an NDA that said they couldn't talk about being forced
482
00:39:26.530 --> 00:39:27.830
to give up all this data.
483
00:39:28.210 --> 00:39:32.745
So, I mean, when you start to when you start to look around, it's way bigger than Bitcoin. Right?
484
00:39:33.225 --> 00:39:36.285
It's every thought you've had in terms of a Google search.
485
00:39:36.665 --> 00:39:40.125
It's every location you've been in terms of Google Maps.
486
00:39:43.550 --> 00:39:44.050
It's,
487
00:39:45.390 --> 00:39:45.890
Pete,
488
00:39:46.190 --> 00:39:49.410
we have a really nice, like, oak table in this
489
00:39:50.015 --> 00:39:55.714
very nice podcast studio, and Pete took a Sharpie while I was telling you all this. And he wrote, if you eat lobster,
490
00:39:56.015 --> 00:39:57.075
you fuck lobsters,
491
00:39:59.120 --> 00:40:04.500
which I really appreciate while we're recording. And I'm trying to talk about an important topic that is digital privacy.
492
00:40:06.135 --> 00:40:09.675
But yeah. We're such pieces of shit. You're welcome, America.
493
00:40:12.214 --> 00:40:15.275
But it's a problem. Like, if you if if you walk down your street,
494
00:40:18.160 --> 00:40:23.140
9 out of 10 houses will have Ring cameras. Right? And what are Ring cameras? Ring cameras are
495
00:40:23.835 --> 00:40:25.135
Internet connected cameras
496
00:40:25.435 --> 00:40:29.215
that send all that information back to Amazon servers
497
00:40:29.755 --> 00:40:30.655
that's collected,
498
00:40:31.035 --> 00:40:33.599
shared with cops and police without warrants.
499
00:40:34.460 --> 00:40:38.880
It's put in your permanent file. It can be indexed. It can be used against you at will.
500
00:40:41.465 --> 00:40:41.965
1984
501
00:40:42.345 --> 00:40:49.865
compared to where we are today, like, the world in 1984 thought is a fucking utopia in comparison to today. Today is, like
502
00:40:50.760 --> 00:40:51.500
in 1984,
503
00:40:52.520 --> 00:40:56.300
the theory was that the government was gonna force you to put wire taps in your home.
504
00:40:56.760 --> 00:40:57.820
But in 2022
505
00:40:58.515 --> 00:41:07.815
2, the reality is that people buy the wire taps. They go through the trouble of installing them, and then they brag to their friends about how great the wire taps are, and they should they should also install them in their house.
506
00:41:08.140 --> 00:41:09.600
507
00:41:09.980 --> 00:41:14.480
Like, I remember reading 1984 back when I was a child in the year 18 96.
508
00:41:15.020 --> 00:41:18.000
And it was terrifying to me
509
00:41:18.845 --> 00:41:23.665
that idea. And you are absolutely correct. The in the modern age, it is absolute.
510
00:41:27.870 --> 00:41:35.170
511
00:41:35.615 --> 00:41:45.580
512
00:41:45.980 --> 00:41:48.000
yeah. You you're absolutely right. I mean,
513
00:41:49.099 --> 00:41:49.599
it's
514
00:41:50.220 --> 00:41:50.720
unfathomable
515
00:41:51.020 --> 00:41:51.760
to me
516
00:41:52.215 --> 00:41:54.715
that people are so willing
517
00:41:55.255 --> 00:41:56.315
to embed
518
00:41:57.735 --> 00:41:58.635
listening devices
519
00:41:59.255 --> 00:41:59.755
and
520
00:42:00.700 --> 00:42:09.440
video devices in their lives in a way that not only affects them. Maybe one thing if it was a question of, sort of, like, hey. I'm willing to take on this burden
521
00:42:10.025 --> 00:42:11.485
because I hate myself.
522
00:42:11.945 --> 00:42:13.645
But things like ring cameras,
523
00:42:13.945 --> 00:42:16.605
they're just facing out to the street and
524
00:42:17.270 --> 00:42:22.330
they affect everyone. And it's crazy to me that that's just totally normalized at this point. We essentially rolled out
525
00:42:23.030 --> 00:42:24.250
526
00:42:24.550 --> 00:42:27.505
network of small suburban neighborhoods across
527
00:42:28.685 --> 00:42:29.744
the United States.
528
00:42:30.525 --> 00:42:31.025
And
529
00:42:31.645 --> 00:42:33.105
it was done by people
530
00:42:33.560 --> 00:42:35.500
buying them and installing them.
531
00:42:36.040 --> 00:42:58.825
You fucking paid for it. You literally were like, hey, let me pay It happened like a matter of years. And, like, there was actually situations where Amazon would strike a deal with the police department, and then the police department would go around and give people free ones. Yeah. She'll be like fuck up. Yeah. 1 100% true. Because they're like, do you want your neighborhood to be safer? Like, then you should put a camera out. If you're not doing anything wrong, like, what should you be worried about? Like, it'll stop criminals. Also, put 1 in your bedroom just facing your bed.
532
00:42:59.125 --> 00:43:04.105
So my point is is we've just never been in this situation before, and my optimistic take is
533
00:43:05.299 --> 00:43:18.385
we're all gonna get burned so fucking hard. And then after we get burned and we touch the stove and we realize, okay. Well, we shouldn't be doing this, then we'll start improving as a society. And every time you see every time these data leaks happen, every time these
534
00:43:19.085 --> 00:43:20.224
compromises happen,
535
00:43:20.605 --> 00:43:25.920
more and more people get burned. More and more people that know people that got burned got burned. And, hopefully,
536
00:43:26.300 --> 00:43:29.920
we have the education. We have the tools available for people to opt out,
537
00:43:30.795 --> 00:43:40.015
and they will choose to opt out as as they realize that need. And that's my optimistic take, but it involves a lot of pain a lot of pain in the short term. So,
538
00:43:41.250 --> 00:43:54.185
539
00:43:55.285 --> 00:43:57.849
540
00:43:59.030 --> 00:44:06.250
541
00:44:07.095 --> 00:44:08.875
But having been the victim of
542
00:44:09.335 --> 00:44:11.675
a a number of very significant
543
00:44:12.135 --> 00:44:12.635
hacks,
544
00:44:15.470 --> 00:44:17.490
I just don't see people reacting
545
00:44:17.869 --> 00:44:20.210
with anything other than this sort of,
546
00:44:22.029 --> 00:44:22.529
just
547
00:44:24.454 --> 00:44:35.880
wide eyed bemusement. Like, I guess I mean, I guess this is the real world we live in. Like, the government loves us. And if they say that these things happen, it's just sort of a part of life. It's it's all just part of life. I I I
548
00:44:36.180 --> 00:44:40.200
549
00:44:41.620 --> 00:44:42.920
or I can use 3 examples.
550
00:44:44.015 --> 00:44:45.715
The first example is
551
00:44:46.015 --> 00:44:47.715
China. They're way ahead of us.
552
00:44:50.015 --> 00:44:57.460
There's a there's a a large growing group of Chinese nationals that have increasingly realized the need
553
00:44:58.160 --> 00:44:58.660
for
554
00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:04.855
better privacy tools and empowering themselves and opting out of this Panopticon
555
00:45:05.155 --> 00:45:07.495
because their lives have been so destroyed,
556
00:45:08.435 --> 00:45:12.000
over surveillance. Because it came hard and fast for them. Like, they can really feel it.
557
00:45:13.360 --> 00:45:16.100
In America, I'll give my other two examples.
558
00:45:19.245 --> 00:45:22.305
Know, we're a very politically divided country. On one side,
559
00:45:23.405 --> 00:45:24.225
we're seeing
560
00:45:25.085 --> 00:45:28.065
the move to try and restrict gun ownership
561
00:45:28.960 --> 00:45:30.019
and people realizing
562
00:45:30.319 --> 00:45:32.900
the need for privacy on that front.
563
00:45:33.440 --> 00:45:36.740
And it will get even more. Like, we saw so we saw in, like, California.
564
00:45:37.440 --> 00:45:38.180
We saw,
565
00:45:39.105 --> 00:45:40.885
in California, they you know,
566
00:45:41.345 --> 00:45:47.285
fortunately, in Tennessee, this is we have a constitutional carry state, but in California, you have to register if you carry a handgun.
567
00:45:48.440 --> 00:45:52.780
Well, supposedly, that list of people and their addresses of people that carry
568
00:45:53.080 --> 00:45:55.820
got leaked, and it was publicly available for everybody.
569
00:45:56.265 --> 00:46:03.805
Right? So if you care about individual sovereignty and you care about gun rights and you care about the ability to own your own firearms and practice that right,
570
00:46:05.440 --> 00:46:16.715
you immediately realize the danger there. And and the and the firearm community has been very outspoken about they don't want firearm registries. They don't want lists of of owners of guns, and and they were proven right
571
00:46:17.335 --> 00:46:21.115
in this case in California. And I think a lot of people woke up to it when that happened.
572
00:46:21.690 --> 00:46:27.230
On, so that's, like, on the right, the political American right. And then on the political American left,
573
00:46:29.505 --> 00:46:32.484
now that Roe v Wade was overturned, we're seeing
574
00:46:32.865 --> 00:46:33.365
conversations.
575
00:46:33.825 --> 00:46:35.204
You know, there was a case
576
00:46:35.744 --> 00:46:40.430
with with a woman and her daughter where her Facebook messages that were not encrypted
577
00:46:41.130 --> 00:46:44.030
were used to prosecute her in an abortion case. Right?
578
00:46:45.005 --> 00:46:49.424
Now you might disagree with the different aspects of both of those examples politically,
579
00:46:50.684 --> 00:46:53.825
but I I think it's pretty obvious to people that
580
00:46:54.500 --> 00:47:00.040
as people's rights get infringed on using this digital Panopticon, as they get burned,
581
00:47:00.900 --> 00:47:02.680
they realize the need. Now
582
00:47:03.095 --> 00:47:06.955
signal is a very inch I'll do a 4th example. Signal's a very interesting
583
00:47:07.735 --> 00:47:16.880
trade off balance. I think they've struck pretty good with it. I mean, signal, if you're not aware, to the audience is a encrypted messaging service.
584
00:47:18.140 --> 00:47:18.640
The
585
00:47:19.099 --> 00:47:21.680
hardcore privacy advocates don't really like it because
586
00:47:22.285 --> 00:47:23.985
it still requires a phone number,
587
00:47:24.685 --> 00:47:27.265
and it has this other feature that I'm about to mention.
588
00:47:28.045 --> 00:47:29.185
But signal
589
00:47:30.609 --> 00:47:31.109
stakeholders
590
00:47:31.410 --> 00:47:32.150
would say
591
00:47:32.450 --> 00:47:33.750
that they made certain
592
00:47:34.130 --> 00:47:44.685
trade offs to make it more convenient and more approachable as a platform so more people had message privacy, that people were sending encrypted messages, and they weren't leaking all this information all over the place.
593
00:47:45.065 --> 00:47:47.885
And but one of the trade offs that signal made is
594
00:47:48.260 --> 00:47:49.800
if someone in your contacts,
595
00:47:52.020 --> 00:47:54.599
add signal, you get notified that they add signal.
596
00:47:55.059 --> 00:48:03.755
Now I'm kind of a crazy person. I've switched phones many times, used the Googled phones all over the place, but I've always kept my contact list.
597
00:48:04.455 --> 00:48:10.100
So I have this, like, ever growing I, like, I'm I think I have, like, 3000, 4000 people in my contact list.
598
00:48:10.880 --> 00:48:13.940
And during the Black Lives Matter riots in America,
599
00:48:18.655 --> 00:48:28.170
signal usage went up, like, create I was getting notified left and right by by people joining signals. Right? And it was like, okay. So they they were out there. They were protesting.
600
00:48:28.790 --> 00:48:32.250
They felt like they were being surveilled. They felt the need. They sought out this tool.
601
00:48:32.665 --> 00:48:43.210
Right? So it will keep happening, and we do see it happen. It's just gonna happen way slower than people think, and just people are just gonna have to get burned like crazy. But I I still think the optimistic take is as people get burned,
602
00:48:43.590 --> 00:48:45.850
they realize the need. And then our job,
603
00:48:46.230 --> 00:48:47.770
if we're aware of this already,
604
00:48:48.255 --> 00:48:52.035
and we're trying to improve the situation, improve the status quo, help,
605
00:48:52.735 --> 00:49:01.250
you know, make sure that the world our children and our grandchildren live in is a better world, is to make sure the education's there and the tools are there. So when they realize the need,
606
00:49:01.790 --> 00:49:04.530
they're ready to go, and and they can move forward in improving
607
00:49:04.910 --> 00:49:06.450
in improving their own situation.
608
00:49:10.655 --> 00:49:12.595
609
00:49:13.855 --> 00:49:14.915
Building out the tools
610
00:49:15.640 --> 00:49:16.380
in advance.
611
00:49:16.920 --> 00:49:17.740
612
00:49:18.359 --> 00:49:22.539
613
00:49:23.045 --> 00:49:28.105
and help educate them so that as they need them, they are available. Yeah. And I I would just add
614
00:49:29.900 --> 00:49:33.040
615
00:49:33.500 --> 00:49:34.000
1993,
616
00:49:34.300 --> 00:49:35.120
he wrote this,
617
00:49:35.980 --> 00:49:37.600
is there is a massive
618
00:49:40.145 --> 00:49:42.245
disconnect on people when they think about privacy.
619
00:49:42.705 --> 00:49:51.670
And his words were privacy is not secrecy. Privacy is the ability to selectively reveal yourself to the world. So I have people tell me all the time, Matt, you're on camera.
620
00:49:52.130 --> 00:49:54.230
You're on voice. You're talking about privacy.
621
00:49:55.170 --> 00:49:57.750
How can you care about privacy? You're talking about privacy.
622
00:49:58.095 --> 00:50:06.275
I'm selectively revealing myself to the world. We are selectively revealing ourselves to the world. The key is consent. The key is not sharing information. You don't have to be a ninja.
623
00:50:06.700 --> 00:50:16.445
The key is I should be in charge of what information is sharing, and there should be consent involved. I should be aware of the trade offs. I should be aware of what data is collected. I should choose which data is used
624
00:50:17.005 --> 00:50:19.265
and when it's used and what I'm getting for it.
625
00:50:19.965 --> 00:50:23.505
But right now, as the case is, is most people are just completely unaware.
626
00:50:24.060 --> 00:50:33.600
They're leaking tons of information left and right. And oftentimes, that's not just affecting them. It's affecting their neighbors. It's gonna affect their children. It's gonna affect their grandchildren. You send your DNA to a service.
627
00:50:34.605 --> 00:50:38.865
That service essentially has the DNA of your future descendants if they're not born yet,
628
00:50:39.484 --> 00:50:43.880
even if they're not born yet. Yeah. If you get your DNA done right now, you are
629
00:50:44.500 --> 00:50:47.960
leaking critical information about your grandkids and your great grandkids.
630
00:50:48.465 --> 00:50:51.525
Absolutely. Without their consent. They're not even fucking people yet.
631
00:50:52.225 --> 00:50:53.605
632
00:50:54.545 --> 00:50:57.260
you're right. If you and your wife unsuspectedly
633
00:50:57.560 --> 00:51:13.170
have each done it, and then later on No. It doesn't even matter if you have done it. And all of your children go for it. But it's worse if it's your They would literally they would know everything about you. Then the whole lineage is just fully completely. I mean, dude, Billy, BlackRock bought out anstery ancestry.com.
634
00:51:14.270 --> 00:51:23.785
Like, you don't They're massive data collection operations. You don't think that they're eventually just gonna go after your your genetic data at some point? And No. They already have. They bought it down. So,
635
00:51:24.085 --> 00:51:26.585
I mean, we're we're talking right now sort of
636
00:51:27.045 --> 00:51:27.545
the
637
00:51:28.390 --> 00:51:46.325
638
00:51:46.930 --> 00:51:54.150
639
00:51:54.734 --> 00:52:18.305
640
00:52:19.250 --> 00:52:20.070
you can be
641
00:52:20.610 --> 00:52:21.270
a deep,
642
00:52:21.570 --> 00:52:22.390
deep pessimist
643
00:52:24.770 --> 00:52:28.685
and believe in Bitcoin because it is the best option
644
00:52:28.985 --> 00:52:30.525
out of a shitty plethora
645
00:52:30.985 --> 00:52:37.245
of options. And you can be that person, and you can be in Bitcoin, and you can run a node, and you can support the network. And you can be
646
00:52:38.460 --> 00:52:44.880
people like us who are more optimistic and are willing to show our faces on camera and have our voice recorded on camera.
647
00:52:45.325 --> 00:52:49.184
And because we believe that they Your voice is being recorded with microphones.
648
00:52:50.204 --> 00:52:56.510
649
00:52:56.810 --> 00:52:58.910
650
00:52:59.290 --> 00:53:00.270
The point is
651
00:53:01.135 --> 00:53:03.375
my pen is also a camera and it is no.
652
00:53:04.175 --> 00:53:13.910
We we can be those people and I think that big Bitcoin is for all of us and I think that that's an important distinction. I think that you don't have to be a specific type of person whether you believe in
653
00:53:15.110 --> 00:53:16.230
654
00:53:19.745 --> 00:53:21.605
I actually think I agree with q.
655
00:53:21.905 --> 00:53:23.045
Oh, shit.
656
00:53:23.345 --> 00:53:24.325
Give it to me.
657
00:53:24.705 --> 00:53:27.925
Tell me where I'm wrong. I think I think there's a lot of pessimists
658
00:53:28.225 --> 00:53:28.725
that
659
00:53:29.100 --> 00:53:30.000
find Bitcoin.
660
00:53:31.260 --> 00:53:37.520
Like, I was a pessimist before I found Bitcoin, and then Bitcoin gave me hope and made me an optimist in the future.
661
00:53:39.845 --> 00:53:44.585
Like, being low time Presumably, there are Bitcoiners that are using Bitcoin as digital cash,
662
00:53:45.920 --> 00:53:51.220
and they're essentially high time preference Bitcoiners. It solves a need for them today, which is just
663
00:53:51.760 --> 00:53:52.980
buying things privately,
664
00:53:54.505 --> 00:53:55.325
without censorship
665
00:53:56.424 --> 00:53:59.405
or in a censorship resistant way. We don't wanna talk in absolutes.
666
00:54:00.880 --> 00:54:01.380
And,
667
00:54:01.840 --> 00:54:03.700
those people, I guess, could be pessimists.
668
00:54:04.320 --> 00:54:05.620
But if you are
669
00:54:07.520 --> 00:54:09.220
long term focused on Bitcoin,
670
00:54:09.735 --> 00:54:11.995
There's a degree of optimism there.
671
00:54:12.695 --> 00:54:18.555
That is like like, why are you I mean, if you're if if you're if you're stacking, if you're accumulating Bitcoin,
672
00:54:20.320 --> 00:54:24.420
you obviously believe that there's some reason you're doing that for the long term.
673
00:54:25.840 --> 00:54:27.380
So there is a degree of
674
00:54:27.795 --> 00:54:32.215
at least personal optimism maybe. Maybe you think the whole world is going to shit,
675
00:54:33.075 --> 00:54:35.015
but, like, it personally empowers you.
676
00:54:35.480 --> 00:54:47.155
I mean, I feel incredibly inspired by Bitcoin. So, like, think about our peers that are not Bitcoiners. Like, I'm so when I when I talk to people that I went to college with, when I talk to people that I went to high school with,
677
00:54:47.695 --> 00:54:48.515
they are
678
00:54:49.375 --> 00:54:50.355
very disenfranchised,
679
00:54:50.734 --> 00:54:51.555
very disillusioned,
680
00:54:52.015 --> 00:54:52.835
very pessimistic
681
00:54:53.135 --> 00:54:59.839
on what the future holds, very pessimistic on what corporate media decides they're gonna be angry at, you know, this week or something.
682
00:55:00.780 --> 00:55:02.140
They feel like they've gotten a
683
00:55:03.234 --> 00:55:07.015
they've the short stick. Right? Like, they've they've just been destroyed as a generation.
684
00:55:07.474 --> 00:55:15.089
And then if you talk to Bitcoin, it's like of course, we're not talking abs I'm not gonna talk absolutes. But when you talk to Bitcoin, it's like, I feel like just 90% of our peers
685
00:55:15.550 --> 00:55:18.210
that are in Bitcoin are the exact opposite.
686
00:55:20.645 --> 00:55:21.705
687
00:55:22.805 --> 00:55:24.405
688
00:55:24.805 --> 00:55:27.420
Right. Optimists. Not not a 100%. But a lot.
689
00:55:28.299 --> 00:55:32.960
690
00:55:33.339 --> 00:55:38.905
and was, like, profoundly depressed about the state of the world before I understood what Bitcoin
691
00:55:40.325 --> 00:55:46.025
692
00:55:46.589 --> 00:55:50.290
Like, if you're sitting down, you're like, I'm gonna watch P and Q with Odell.
693
00:55:51.869 --> 00:55:55.329
And I'm gonna spend this time for however long this goes for.
694
00:55:55.955 --> 00:55:57.415
That you're probably an optimist.
695
00:55:58.915 --> 00:56:00.935
And I would say that if you're a pessimist,
696
00:56:03.280 --> 00:56:05.860
first, like and subscribe to P&T Show,
697
00:56:06.320 --> 00:56:07.860
and then comment underneath
698
00:56:08.480 --> 00:56:16.355
comment underneath the video and say I'm a pessimist. Let's see how many there are. I love you, Odell. There you go. Always be chilling.
699
00:56:19.320 --> 00:56:21.260
700
00:56:21.880 --> 00:56:23.500
it. Alright. So where do we go from here?
701
00:56:25.400 --> 00:56:30.595
702
00:56:31.295 --> 00:56:35.599
you've been in this space and doing it for so long. Like, you have created this sort of digital
703
00:56:36.140 --> 00:56:38.000
presence of who you are.
704
00:56:38.380 --> 00:56:40.480
We just attended a a funeral
705
00:56:41.180 --> 00:56:42.800
of a digital identity.
706
00:56:44.255 --> 00:56:46.595
Are you Who's funeral was that?
707
00:56:46.975 --> 00:56:48.195
I forget his name.
708
00:56:49.455 --> 00:56:59.800
It's it's so easy. You know? Now that he's gone, you just forget it right away. At the at this point, rock star is a a distant and faded memory. But How are you doing with that? Are you still are you still angry?
709
00:57:00.595 --> 00:57:01.494
710
00:57:01.795 --> 00:57:04.855
Rockstar is a good friend. I would go as far as saying he's a brother.
711
00:57:05.234 --> 00:57:09.494
He decided he wanted to get rid of his digital identity. Very important
712
00:57:11.460 --> 00:57:17.400
to be able to choose when you wanna cycle through a new identity and what you wanna reveal to the world as we talked about.
713
00:57:17.765 --> 00:57:19.305
I was supportive of that.
714
00:57:20.805 --> 00:57:23.145
Usually, when people have NIMs, they,
715
00:57:24.244 --> 00:57:24.905
you know,
716
00:57:25.740 --> 00:57:35.625
just disappear. They just stop posting from that NIM. NIM is a pseudonym, so it's a name that you choose that is not your legal name. It's not the name you're born with. Like like, he wasn't
717
00:57:35.945 --> 00:57:44.125
like, Pete didn't come out of his mom, and his mom was like, oh my god. He's so beautiful. I'm gonna name him Pete. No. Pete decided that he wanted that name to be his identity.
718
00:57:44.730 --> 00:57:48.190
I'm pretty sure the same with q, but his whole family might be named q. I'm not sure.
719
00:57:49.529 --> 00:57:52.589
So Rockstar decided to do that, and I was very supportive.
720
00:57:54.105 --> 00:57:55.645
We hosted a physical
721
00:57:57.145 --> 00:57:58.525
celebration of his life
722
00:57:58.825 --> 00:58:03.840
and everything. He's done so much with this space. I had him on I had him on my podcast, it'll dispatch.
723
00:58:04.620 --> 00:58:05.360
We discussed,
724
00:58:05.980 --> 00:58:10.640
you know, what was important to him, like, why this mission was important, why he's doing the funeral,
725
00:58:11.155 --> 00:58:16.695
spent a lot of time and energy on it, read his eulogy, hosted, like, 45 people here at Bitcoin Park.
726
00:58:17.395 --> 00:58:22.470
And then today this was, like, 3 days ago. And then today, he got announced as a speaker at a
727
00:58:22.890 --> 00:58:23.390
conference.
728
00:58:23.810 --> 00:58:24.310
So,
729
00:58:25.650 --> 00:58:27.589
what what were the phases of grief?
730
00:58:29.410 --> 00:58:29.910
731
00:58:30.795 --> 00:58:31.295
anger,
732
00:58:31.915 --> 00:58:33.214
733
00:58:33.515 --> 00:58:34.875
wholeheartedly in the anger
734
00:58:35.915 --> 00:58:41.030
in the anger part of the game. And you were still hang you were at anger. Yeah. But that was before he had risen again.
735
00:58:42.210 --> 00:58:48.445
So now now I'm definitely I'm just solidified. We're just cemented in that in in that in that zone.
736
00:58:50.585 --> 00:59:06.914
I'm sorry to hear that. I did the the denial hit me for a little bit. And then It it was Yeah. But I was correct. I was, like, I was pretty sure he wasn't I I was pretty sure. I mean, you call that denial at the time, but I was right. Dude, I mean So it wasn't denial. It was it was a correct gut. It was really
737
00:59:07.474 --> 00:59:31.280
738
00:59:31.820 --> 00:59:32.720
739
00:59:34.300 --> 00:59:36.640
And it was it was a beautiful moment.
740
00:59:36.965 --> 00:59:40.425
Rockstar has done a lot for the space. I have a ton of respect for him.
741
00:59:41.525 --> 00:59:43.385
I think his work on digital identity
742
00:59:43.765 --> 00:59:47.810
and explaining to people why selective privacy is important is
743
00:59:48.829 --> 00:59:54.105
extremely crucial to everything that that I've been focused on and a lot of us have been focused on.
744
00:59:54.965 --> 00:59:56.905
And just to complete the
745
00:59:57.925 --> 01:00:01.599
to complete the thought and and and to never stop shilling.
746
01:00:01.980 --> 01:00:03.599
If you would like to see him live,
747
01:00:04.059 --> 01:00:07.279
Tab Conf, will be going on in October in Georgia
748
01:00:07.725 --> 01:00:11.345
in Atlanta. It's a great it's a great conference, and, you can go to tabconf.com,
749
01:00:12.445 --> 01:00:14.465
if you like to buy tickets to see a
750
01:00:15.700 --> 01:00:17.000
presumably dead man,
751
01:00:18.820 --> 01:00:21.080
speak about very important topics. Look.
752
01:00:21.859 --> 01:00:30.984
753
01:00:33.560 --> 01:00:36.940
Oh. Okay. Yeah. Ready. Let me ask you a different question, Adele.
754
01:00:39.000 --> 01:00:39.660
I know.
755
01:00:40.165 --> 01:00:42.185
756
01:00:42.645 --> 01:00:47.225
757
01:00:47.605 --> 01:00:48.985
758
01:00:50.630 --> 01:00:55.210
759
01:00:56.390 --> 01:01:01.425
760
01:01:03.085 --> 01:01:12.090
761
01:01:12.710 --> 01:01:14.570
or maybe he was, and it's a resurrection.
762
01:01:17.485 --> 01:01:25.140
So one thing that I think is Are you trying to get me to do, Yes. He's trying to get me to show one more thing. No. We we can just wait till that's more tasteful in the
763
01:01:26.900 --> 01:01:41.335
764
01:01:41.750 --> 01:01:48.500
money from both the TAB Conference and the initiative. I don't think we have. No. We haven't. No. They're not sponsors. You should have I don't know.
765
01:01:50.145 --> 01:01:56.645
766
01:01:58.170 --> 01:02:00.350
767
01:02:00.810 --> 01:02:01.470
beef initiative.com,
768
01:02:01.850 --> 01:02:02.590
sill dispatch.com
769
01:02:02.890 --> 01:02:11.335
770
01:02:12.035 --> 01:02:12.775
Like and
771
01:02:13.210 --> 01:02:25.505
772
01:02:26.445 --> 01:02:28.580
773
01:02:29.620 --> 01:02:30.920
It's never gonna happen.
774
01:02:32.660 --> 01:02:35.240
Okay. Okay. Please, ask your question. Is
775
01:02:35.865 --> 01:02:37.325
776
01:02:38.025 --> 01:02:38.685
you know,
777
01:02:38.985 --> 01:02:45.405
people's safety as we talked about get the getting burned, the the less so learning digital safety and identity.
778
01:02:47.450 --> 01:02:51.870
I am so sorry yet again for the child that sits to your left
779
01:02:52.410 --> 01:02:54.030
780
01:02:57.065 --> 01:03:02.525
781
01:03:03.390 --> 01:03:11.650
Like, will we get to that point where it's so necessary if you want to have some semblance of Would the every man have a digital identity? Like, no. A
782
01:03:12.029 --> 01:03:22.520
pseudonym. Like, a genuine nim separate to what they have already created once we realize how far we've gone. Yeah. I mean, I I think I think the optimistic case is that people will have many, many
783
01:03:30.494 --> 01:03:33.795
784
01:03:34.414 --> 01:03:37.075
you know, the state decides your identity system.
785
01:03:39.790 --> 01:03:44.290
And the way you live your life is is is it's it's really hard to use multiple identities,
786
01:03:44.910 --> 01:03:47.730
in a dated I mean, if you wanna talk about
787
01:03:48.375 --> 01:03:52.715
living your life privately, like, try paying your property taxes privately
788
01:03:54.695 --> 01:03:56.875
or having a birth certificate for your child
789
01:03:57.309 --> 01:03:58.130
privately or,
790
01:03:59.069 --> 01:04:09.105
paying your mortgage privately or registering to vote privately. These things are very difficult. Our society is set up to basically create all these data honeypots that you're a ostracized
791
01:04:09.565 --> 01:04:12.865
crazy person if you try and opt out of these different things.
792
01:04:15.550 --> 01:04:24.930
Like, I personally think it's completely normal for someone to have a kid and not have a state sanctioned birth certificate for. But I think most people right now would say you're fucking crazy if you said that. Right?
793
01:04:25.725 --> 01:04:29.185
So I think we are gonna slowly move to a world where people
794
01:04:29.565 --> 01:04:32.385
it's more commonplace, and it's gonna be people choosing.
795
01:04:33.230 --> 01:04:43.305
People will choose to opt out of that system, choose to have multiple identities until it gets normalized. There's a lot of things that we currently think are normal that were crazy at some point in people
796
01:04:44.245 --> 01:04:46.825
chose to do them. And as more as more people did them,
797
01:04:47.525 --> 01:04:50.505
it became normalized, and it became a a common occurrence.
798
01:04:51.030 --> 01:04:53.690
Now we need tools to make that more
799
01:04:54.310 --> 01:04:55.530
accessible. Right now,
800
01:04:55.910 --> 01:05:03.535
our most common digital ID is a phone number, and that's, like, insanely centralized. Right? You have people will have a phone number from the,
801
01:05:03.835 --> 01:05:35.395
you know, from the time they get their first phone, which is increasing increasingly younger, which shouldn't be the case either, but that's people's personal decision. They can do that if they want to. And that phone number tracks them through their whole lives. They use it to sign up for services. It's it's, at this point, it's almost more of a Social Security number than the Social Security number is. Right? It absolutely is. And that's like a complete that's obviously a completely centralized system. Most of them you can get a phone number without connecting it to your legal name, but It is very difficult. Yeah. And the the status quo is, like, it's basically full KYC.
802
01:05:35.695 --> 01:05:42.035
Identify yourself with your legal name, provide all your information. That's connected to the phone number. If you use the phone number, then that's connected to all the other information.
803
01:05:42.590 --> 01:05:43.650
So we need tools
804
01:05:44.590 --> 01:05:45.490
to disintermediate
805
01:05:45.870 --> 01:05:51.970
that. And one of the promising projects is decentralized ID. And I go back and forth on decentralized ID because
806
01:05:52.444 --> 01:05:58.625
the first major use case of decentralized ID, I'm, like, 99% sure will be, like, pure, you know, like, draconian,
807
01:05:59.164 --> 01:05:59.664
dystopian,
808
01:06:00.525 --> 01:06:04.190
and Opticon bullshit. Can you elaborate on that? Yeah. It's gonna be like state
809
01:06:04.730 --> 01:06:06.510
states are gonna use the decentralized
810
01:06:06.890 --> 01:06:16.525
ID infrastructure and force it on us. And then we're gonna have a digital ID where and we saw this in the the aftermath of COVID, the COVID response or whatever, where if you wanted to
811
01:06:16.905 --> 01:06:18.045
go into a restaurant,
812
01:06:19.440 --> 01:06:22.740
in New York City or other major cities, you had to provide
813
01:06:23.280 --> 01:06:28.180
you had to provide this pass. You had to provide this connection to your digital to your to your identity.
814
01:06:28.635 --> 01:06:30.895
And some places, including New York,
815
01:06:32.635 --> 01:06:56.440
had a digital version where it was an app and it had a QR code. And, actually, it was even worse as a privacy focused big corner because it was powered by IBM Blockchain. Oh, sweetie. Just to add on top of that. Right? But where they were essentially wanted to know who was in what establishment, when they were in it, and all attach that to your legal ID. Now they had a lot of issues rolling that out because they didn't have the infrastructure. So I'm a little bit concerned
816
01:06:57.140 --> 01:06:57.640
that,
817
01:06:58.925 --> 01:07:01.105
you know, when when you make when you make
818
01:07:01.724 --> 01:07:02.224
powerful
819
01:07:02.525 --> 01:07:04.785
censorship resistant robust tools,
820
01:07:05.165 --> 01:07:08.224
they're gonna be used by many different people for many different reasons.
821
01:07:08.910 --> 01:07:11.970
And by design, you can't control how people use them.
822
01:07:12.430 --> 01:07:13.970
But the beginning of decentralized
823
01:07:14.270 --> 01:07:16.770
ID will probably be marked by
824
01:07:17.185 --> 01:07:19.685
these states that wanted to push digital IDs,
825
01:07:20.065 --> 01:07:24.405
but didn't really have the infrastructure chops to do it. But if someone gives them an out of the box solution,
826
01:07:24.860 --> 01:07:26.720
they're like, yeah. Go to the DMV,
827
01:07:27.260 --> 01:07:38.165
scan your driver's I driver's license. And then every time you do anything, we want you to we want you to check-in with this thing so we know where you are, where you're at, what you're spending on, all this different stuff. But, ultimately, the
828
01:07:39.045 --> 01:07:42.905
I actually see a lot of resemblance to decentralized ID in Bitcoin,
829
01:07:43.559 --> 01:07:47.180
where Bitcoin you can use Bitcoin in a fully pro surveillance way.
830
01:07:47.480 --> 01:07:49.020
All your all your,
831
01:07:49.480 --> 01:08:02.660
transactions are tracked. How much you have is always tracked at a at a moment, but you can also use it in a freedom oriented way without permission. And with decentralized IDs, you have essentially the ability to to spin up what amounts to a
832
01:08:03.359 --> 01:08:04.900
a public private key pair,
833
01:08:05.359 --> 01:08:11.835
which is similar to how Bitcoin works. And and that can be associated to a certain reputation, a certain I identity
834
01:08:12.695 --> 01:08:16.475
that you want, and you can use them selectively. You could spin up as many as you want.
835
01:08:17.210 --> 01:08:20.510
And I think that will become more and more commonplace where, like, people
836
01:08:21.050 --> 01:08:22.510
will essentially have,
837
01:08:23.290 --> 01:08:24.670
have different identities
838
01:08:25.765 --> 01:08:26.265
and
839
01:08:27.525 --> 01:08:28.905
and different organizations,
840
01:08:29.685 --> 01:08:30.185
events,
841
01:08:30.645 --> 01:08:31.145
services,
842
01:08:31.445 --> 01:08:31.945
whatnot,
843
01:08:32.325 --> 01:08:37.130
will not only honor the the state sanctioned identity. Like, if you wanna think of decentralized
844
01:08:37.510 --> 01:08:42.170
ID on a high level, the way I look at it is, okay, so you have this cryptographically
845
01:08:42.710 --> 01:08:46.465
verifiable identity that you can create at will as many as you want.
846
01:08:46.925 --> 01:08:50.225
We all have those, and we can each endorse each other.
847
01:08:51.085 --> 01:08:51.585
Obviously,
848
01:08:51.885 --> 01:08:53.265
you guys are just letters.
849
01:08:53.690 --> 01:08:56.270
But you could say, like, Matt's a good dude. But also,
850
01:08:58.489 --> 01:09:05.605
Citibank could say that Matt pays his mortgage on time, and the landlord can say that Matt pays his rent on time.
851
01:09:06.865 --> 01:09:13.989
A teacher could say that Matt was a good student or whatever. And different services, different people will respect those different
852
01:09:15.010 --> 01:09:15.510
attestations
853
01:09:15.889 --> 01:09:17.270
of of of your credibility
854
01:09:18.055 --> 01:09:24.635
rather than just, you know, the New York DMV said that Matt lives at this house and pays his taxes. Right?
855
01:09:26.130 --> 01:09:27.750
856
01:09:28.050 --> 01:09:29.090
I'm curious though. Like
857
01:09:30.290 --> 01:09:39.075
858
01:09:40.255 --> 01:09:41.555
it starts with
859
01:09:42.015 --> 01:09:43.235
draconian Panopticon
860
01:09:44.489 --> 01:09:47.949
surveillance state shit, but then it morphs into freedom
861
01:09:48.650 --> 01:09:49.550
tech at scale.
862
01:09:50.090 --> 01:09:54.445
And the pessimistic take is it just goes to that first step and stays at that first step.
863
01:09:56.025 --> 01:10:03.590
And that every transaction we do is tracked, logged, used against us, every message we send, every location we go to, every photo we take,
864
01:10:04.450 --> 01:10:06.230
every time we answer the door,
865
01:10:06.770 --> 01:10:08.070
every time we go out.
866
01:10:08.474 --> 01:10:23.605
867
01:10:24.145 --> 01:10:27.445
aside, legit, one of the best Bitcoin focused podcasts in existence.
868
01:10:30.360 --> 01:10:32.940
I mean, we're already in that state. Right? Like, with the
869
01:10:34.599 --> 01:10:37.239
I love that you're giving me shit and then you're also like
870
01:10:37.665 --> 01:10:45.685
well, they're like wasted stickers otherwise. No. They're not. These are these are high quality stickers. The point is we are already in that state. And the reality is, like, people people
871
01:10:46.930 --> 01:10:49.510
fuck you, Q. People labor under the delusion
872
01:10:50.050 --> 01:10:55.510
that these systems are separate and that the government does not necessarily have access
873
01:10:55.825 --> 01:10:59.525
to your quote, unquote private information, but they already do. And
874
01:11:00.305 --> 01:11:02.945
I think there's a lot of legal cases that would
875
01:11:03.810 --> 01:11:05.110
that support that claim.
876
01:11:06.770 --> 01:11:14.185
But the record show, Matadel literally just checked his wow to see how much longer we are going. No. That's not what I did.
877
01:11:15.205 --> 01:11:45.645
878
01:11:48.345 --> 01:11:51.325
879
01:11:52.080 --> 01:11:57.300
880
01:11:58.000 --> 01:11:59.140
881
01:12:02.405 --> 01:12:08.585
882
01:12:08.885 --> 01:12:10.425
agree. Yeah. Okay. Continue.
883
01:12:11.670 --> 01:12:13.850
884
01:12:14.230 --> 01:12:16.010
creating NIMs to
885
01:12:16.550 --> 01:12:19.875
explore different aspects of their identity. Yeah.
886
01:12:20.255 --> 01:12:27.875
And different things that they were interested in. And I think this is a really interesting idea. It is not something that I have ever done, but I think that
887
01:12:28.560 --> 01:12:36.740
it's something I I'm curious what what whether you have explored that yourself. I'm trying to get you to dox yourself. What are your names? And, I've had many names.
888
01:12:40.425 --> 01:12:42.685
889
01:12:43.625 --> 01:12:45.565
wherewithal to cycle out.
890
01:12:48.740 --> 01:12:53.160
891
01:12:53.915 --> 01:12:57.915
892
01:12:59.435 --> 01:13:00.415
you should be
893
01:13:02.340 --> 01:13:11.555
getting rid of them and starting fresh ones. You should have many, many nymphs. People should have many I mean, they can do whatever the fuck they want, but it's really empowering having many nymphs.
894
01:13:12.335 --> 01:13:14.755
And, like, a perfect example a perfect example.
895
01:13:15.295 --> 01:13:17.955
An easy to grok example if you're on Twitter
896
01:13:18.590 --> 01:13:22.130
is this idea that when you like a post, it tells everyone that you like the post.
897
01:13:22.590 --> 01:13:35.244
Right? Like, you should be able to and I know all of you have thought about this. When you press the like button, you're like, everyone's gonna be notified basically that I like this post. What are the implications there? And that's ridiculous. Right? Like, you should be free to explore
898
01:13:36.290 --> 01:13:46.655
and and learn and improve and do all these things without necessarily having this this element of social pressure that maybe you may or may not consented to.
899
01:13:47.515 --> 01:13:48.735
And I I think
900
01:13:49.435 --> 01:14:06.845
that is obviously, like, a smaller example than that. Right? But, like, you should be able to be free to do these things. And and having having many different names is an easy is an easy answer to to doing that in today's age. Yeah. I just I I listened to that episode recently, and and I really like the idea that
901
01:14:07.225 --> 01:14:09.325
902
01:14:09.864 --> 01:14:11.245
creating multiple NIMs.
903
01:14:11.910 --> 01:14:22.545
And that being a normalized behavior rather than something that is sort of, like, wait, why do you have multiple names that you do not connect? Like, what are you trying to So you wanna know the positive take on this? Yes.
904
01:14:27.760 --> 01:14:28.260
905
01:14:28.880 --> 01:14:30.020
and drone racing.
906
01:14:31.200 --> 01:14:37.295
I'm so excited to hear how this is connected. The top 10 in the world, almost all nims. No shit. Now,
907
01:14:38.475 --> 01:14:41.135
like, that's that's a generation that decided
908
01:14:41.515 --> 01:14:42.574
that their
909
01:14:43.195 --> 01:15:01.675
their passion, their their main thing that they're focused on, like, regardless if you think they're legitimate sports like playing League of Legends or drone racing, I would I would argue that drone racing is pretty fucking cool. Like, it's Yeah. I love kinda cool. Video games. I just wish the drones had missiles on them. I think that would make it more exciting. 100%. They're all they're all NIMs.
910
01:15:02.090 --> 01:15:08.590
I think they're Fortnite, the Fortnite championship or whatever was, like, won by, like, a 14 year old in Argentina named, you know,
911
01:15:09.585 --> 01:15:12.405
Grain slime boner jam. Yeah. Something like that. Yeah.
912
01:15:13.344 --> 01:15:15.045
It's like eagleflyer or something.
913
01:15:15.665 --> 01:15:19.300
That's just a Native American name. I don't even know. I whatever. But, you know, it's like,
914
01:15:19.940 --> 01:15:26.040
he had he had a nim. Right? He had a nim, and it was normalized. It wasn't like it wasn't like Were you on camera though?
915
01:15:26.375 --> 01:15:43.500
Like, he didn't, like, show his face? No. He he showed his face, but it wasn't like His name is you know, Paul 1. It was blah blah 1. Right? Like, that was his and, like, he had fans that came there to support his name. They didn't come there to support his legal name. Right. So there there's a normalization happening in the younger generation already.
916
01:15:43.885 --> 01:15:47.585
For sure. At least in the gaming world and the
917
01:15:48.605 --> 01:15:59.330
I would I would like like drone racing is probably the gaming world. That's probably still the same demo. I mean, I have But you you see that. I certainly had an interesting experience doing the programming for Bitcoin 2022,
918
01:16:00.110 --> 01:16:01.810
919
01:16:02.805 --> 01:16:10.105
surprised by the number of, like you know, I had to interact with a lot of high profile people whether it was, you know, Bukele president Bukele, the Salvador's team
920
01:16:10.480 --> 01:16:10.720
or,
921
01:16:11.280 --> 01:16:12.900
you know, people associated with
922
01:16:13.760 --> 01:16:16.420
any number of political figures who were, like, deeply
923
01:16:17.200 --> 01:16:27.760
confused by the idea that my name was a simp was a letter. And they were, like, yo, what the fuck is going on? Like, what are you trying to hide? You know what you should have said. Right? What's that? It was a birth certificate. Fuck up.
924
01:16:28.480 --> 01:16:29.119
No. That
925
01:16:30.239 --> 01:16:53.065
926
01:16:55.465 --> 01:17:03.550
Bobby. Anyway, I I I I think that I I love the idea that Slow and steady. Like, it'll get normalized over time. Yeah. I think that's the optimistic take.
927
01:17:04.090 --> 01:17:05.949
928
01:17:07.690 --> 01:17:12.325
929
01:17:12.865 --> 01:17:13.365
to
930
01:17:13.985 --> 01:17:17.765
I'm a star wars fan. So, like, pod racing. Yeah. Love that.
931
01:17:18.679 --> 01:17:22.539
932
01:17:23.000 --> 01:17:23.500
basketball,
933
01:17:24.280 --> 01:17:24.780
NFL,
934
01:17:25.565 --> 01:17:28.625
Star Wars. That's it. That's all you got. You have about
935
01:17:29.645 --> 01:17:30.945
936
01:17:31.485 --> 01:17:31.985
Yeah.
937
01:17:32.685 --> 01:17:34.790
938
01:17:36.530 --> 01:17:38.870
Like, like, sort of, like, broad,
939
01:17:39.730 --> 01:17:40.390
you know,
940
01:17:42.035 --> 01:17:43.335
cultural references.
941
01:17:45.795 --> 01:17:46.615
942
01:17:47.635 --> 01:17:49.575
I don't think so. I don't know. There's, like,
943
01:17:49.880 --> 01:17:54.440
100, if not, 1,000 of hours of me publicly speaking. But if you say so
944
01:17:55.240 --> 01:18:00.935
945
01:18:02.195 --> 01:18:10.390
946
01:18:12.210 --> 01:18:22.494
947
01:18:24.860 --> 01:18:27.520
948
01:18:28.380 --> 01:18:33.840
I know. No shit. It's like, fuck. Why was I listening? That was bullshit. It was, like, completely unnecessary.
949
01:18:34.765 --> 01:18:36.225
950
01:18:37.485 --> 01:18:49.190
And, yeah. It's like the I would say it's the 5th most common topic of conversation when we are hanging out, like, privately. It's sort of, like, the reference is still, like, god fucking damn it. Like, why did I waste my time attending
951
01:18:50.050 --> 01:18:51.190
to what you were saying?
952
01:18:52.130 --> 01:18:52.630
953
01:18:53.065 --> 01:18:59.485
I I'm glad to know that this is not just like a personal experience with PETA. This is a very consistent theme.
954
01:19:00.300 --> 01:19:01.520
So look, here's the thing.
955
01:19:03.740 --> 01:19:06.400
956
01:19:06.860 --> 01:19:07.360
to
957
01:19:09.614 --> 01:19:12.995
critically examine everything that is being fed to us
958
01:19:13.375 --> 01:19:16.195
at all times and I view it as a personal,
959
01:19:18.760 --> 01:19:21.500
960
01:19:21.880 --> 01:19:58.380
961
01:19:59.535 --> 01:20:12.250
I would hope that we are all critically evaluating everything that we're hearing around us at all times. I think that especially well, actually, I don't wanna say especially in the Bitcoin space. I think this is this is more prevalent in
962
01:20:12.550 --> 01:20:13.610
outside of Bitcoin.
963
01:20:13.995 --> 01:20:15.055
But we have a tendency
964
01:20:15.755 --> 01:20:16.575
to lionize
965
01:20:17.275 --> 01:20:19.135
the people that we identify as heroes
966
01:20:19.595 --> 01:20:23.295
and to not evaluate critically the individual
967
01:20:24.020 --> 01:20:27.000
statements that they make and the decisions they advocate for.
968
01:20:27.380 --> 01:20:30.199
And I think that's a that's a huge loss. And
969
01:20:31.059 --> 01:20:32.679
my own random personality
970
01:20:33.545 --> 01:20:38.205
leads me to say random shit all the time. But that's kind of the nugget of what I'm trying to do. It's like,
971
01:20:39.225 --> 01:20:40.685
I want everybody to be
972
01:20:41.410 --> 01:20:49.145
973
01:20:49.625 --> 01:21:08.350
974
01:21:09.595 --> 01:21:15.135
Oh, I'm so happy. Literally, nothing you've said has made me happier than when you pulled the cork out. For the audience,
975
01:21:15.515 --> 01:21:24.030
every time I pull the cork out, in front of my mic, the the you've heard every time has been me trying to induce Odell to do this because it's like this.
976
01:21:27.555 --> 01:21:30.775
What's the word? What's the the person who rings the bell? Alcoholism.
977
01:21:32.115 --> 01:21:36.520
Pav loves dogs. Pav loves dogs. Yeah. I have listened to your fucking podcasts
978
01:21:36.980 --> 01:21:41.960
for so many years and that, like, boom, is such a, like, visceral
979
01:21:42.260 --> 01:21:46.275
experience for me of, like, let's fucking get into it. Like, this is gonna be
980
01:21:46.575 --> 01:21:47.235
an uncensored
981
01:21:47.855 --> 01:22:05.205
real conversation. So I'm super excited that you just pull the bottle and Love the love love the bottle pop. Odell vetoed me trying to hotbox this room. I did try earlier. Yeah. Yeah. You fucking idiot. You're trying to do this in, like, a like, this is, like, a $1,000,000 fucking studio we're in with, like, expensive audio equipment. Everything around us is fucking gorgeous.
982
01:22:05.985 --> 01:22:07.285
Shout out Bitcoin Park.
983
01:22:07.985 --> 01:22:10.850
And you're over here trying to fucking blow. Wait. Wait. Wait.
984
01:22:13.970 --> 01:22:18.470
985
01:22:19.445 --> 01:22:21.704
Stay tuned to this channel to
986
01:22:22.244 --> 01:22:23.144
to see that.
987
01:22:25.525 --> 01:22:27.385
988
01:22:27.810 --> 01:22:32.290
989
01:22:32.930 --> 01:22:34.070
990
01:22:34.370 --> 01:22:56.200
991
01:22:58.065 --> 01:23:03.045
Like, yeah. But I've I've had many hours of being drunk on air, and there's a lot of shit I don't say.
992
01:23:05.390 --> 01:23:08.590
Pretty good about it for the most part. I've had my I've had my,
993
01:23:09.230 --> 01:23:16.534
my low points, but there's there's been pretty good about it. Oh, okay. Alright. Alright. I thought you were basically saying, like Lot of secrets up here.
994
01:23:19.400 --> 01:23:23.900
995
01:23:25.800 --> 01:23:27.500
996
01:23:29.075 --> 01:23:29.815
997
01:23:31.795 --> 01:23:34.055
So a question that I like to ask.
998
01:23:36.170 --> 01:23:38.510
What have we not talked about in this conversation
999
01:23:39.610 --> 01:23:40.110
that
1000
01:23:40.730 --> 01:23:41.710
you have
1001
01:23:42.250 --> 01:23:42.750
1002
01:23:43.495 --> 01:23:48.395
1003
01:23:49.655 --> 01:23:51.034
1004
01:23:53.710 --> 01:23:56.050
1005
01:23:57.070 --> 01:23:58.590
here's because looking at each other like
1006
01:23:59.630 --> 01:24:09.245
1007
01:24:09.920 --> 01:24:27.219
Which I'm impressed because I I've taken, like, 2 sips of the Yeah. You haven't drinking anything. I'm not gonna drink it. Pretty lame. Yeah. You literally have an entire fucking glass. Drinking this. Personal choice. You have your choice. I I'm use I'm He's been say drinking a single can of Bud Light Salsa. And I've been using my vice pretty long have you been going for? What is that over there?
1008
01:24:28.560 --> 01:24:40.955
Only an hour and 30 minutes. An hour and 30 minutes, you've been sipping on that single Bud Light Seltzer. Congratulations. There's no oh, there's one more. Here, I'll go get a second. No pure pressure. Okay. Ask the question. Ask the question while he was like, to replenish himself.
1009
01:24:41.335 --> 01:24:46.750
The question genuinely is Which means it was empty, by the way. So he hasn't even been sipping it. A 100%.
1010
01:24:49.369 --> 01:24:53.385
1011
01:24:54.805 --> 01:24:55.765
1012
01:24:56.245 --> 01:25:01.625
Yeah. We got okay. Go on. No. No. No. Like I don't think this is a real question. Continue. It is a real question. What is something
1013
01:25:01.940 --> 01:25:02.440
1014
01:25:02.980 --> 01:25:04.360
you haven't had the opportunity
1015
01:25:05.059 --> 01:25:07.639
to dive into recently on the many
1016
01:25:08.179 --> 01:25:12.065
podcasts that you have done in the public appearances that is super important
1017
01:25:13.005 --> 01:25:15.265
to you personally or to the Bitcoin space.
1018
01:25:18.180 --> 01:25:22.260
And it can be a niche thing. It can be within the the within the larger concept of privacy.
1019
01:25:24.100 --> 01:25:28.525
It can be within the the under the aegis of, you know, sovereignty.
1020
01:25:30.505 --> 01:25:32.764
And if the answer is there's nothing, that's totally fine too.
1021
01:25:38.850 --> 01:25:39.670
1022
01:25:41.570 --> 01:25:45.750
1023
01:25:46.855 --> 01:25:49.355
1024
01:25:52.295 --> 01:25:55.094
like, part of the reason I started solo dispatch was because I was
1025
01:25:56.010 --> 01:25:57.390
I felt like there was
1026
01:25:57.930 --> 01:26:03.070
there was a hole in just public discussions and conversations in the Bitcoin space, and
1027
01:26:05.315 --> 01:26:10.215
I thought I could help fill that hole. I didn't wanna do what everyone else was doing. I didn't wanna
1028
01:26:13.080 --> 01:26:18.380
I I I I didn't wanna just be talking about the same things that everyone else was talking about.
1029
01:26:21.755 --> 01:26:22.815
But I don't know.
1030
01:26:24.715 --> 01:26:29.055
I I mean, personally, I think what specifically had been lacking for a while was
1031
01:26:30.490 --> 01:26:34.910
the food and the local community building kind of part of the equation,
1032
01:26:35.450 --> 01:26:36.830
but I've just gone, like,
1033
01:26:37.135 --> 01:26:38.515
ham on that. So
1034
01:26:39.215 --> 01:26:40.595
that's not lacking now.
1035
01:26:41.135 --> 01:26:42.035
1036
01:26:42.735 --> 01:26:45.395
it's a fantastic answer, and that is something that I
1037
01:26:47.040 --> 01:26:53.620
I have recognized in you. You have I mean, when we moved here we moved to Nashville at approximately the same time.
1038
01:26:54.080 --> 01:26:54.580
And
1039
01:26:54.960 --> 01:26:55.700
there was
1040
01:26:56.615 --> 01:27:00.635
a very small community of Bitcoiners here that was mostly focused around Bitcoin Magazine.
1041
01:27:00.935 --> 01:27:03.195
And you have done an incredible job of,
1042
01:27:04.240 --> 01:27:10.090
you know, working with Bitcoin Park, working with Rod, working with Mills, and the people that are involved to really build this out into a,
1043
01:27:11.295 --> 01:27:14.275
a new and unique kind of mecca for Bitcoiners.
1044
01:27:14.974 --> 01:27:15.474
And
1045
01:27:16.574 --> 01:27:19.054
I think it's pretty impressive. So Yeah. I don't like
1046
01:27:19.910 --> 01:27:22.090
1047
01:27:24.550 --> 01:27:28.490
I like target something, and I'm like, we need to do more of this, and I just fucking do it.
1048
01:27:28.865 --> 01:27:30.725
You know? I just see where it takes me.
1049
01:27:32.705 --> 01:27:35.285
And then if I feel like that has
1050
01:27:35.825 --> 01:27:37.765
been sufficiently boosted or sufficiently
1051
01:27:39.300 --> 01:27:41.160
improved, then I move to the next thing.
1052
01:27:44.820 --> 01:27:47.320
I think I don't think people realize, like, how much
1053
01:27:53.685 --> 01:27:56.505
like, how much individual action can actually
1054
01:27:57.860 --> 01:27:58.840
make a difference.
1055
01:28:00.500 --> 01:28:04.280
And individual action obviously always starts with an individual, but it,
1056
01:28:05.035 --> 01:28:10.175
you know, when you have like minded individuals come together, like, real change actually can happen.
1057
01:28:10.715 --> 01:28:13.055
Not like bullshit whining and complaining
1058
01:28:13.380 --> 01:28:16.680
and arguing with people for, like, bullshit Internet points.
1059
01:28:18.820 --> 01:28:22.760
But, like, actually doing things and being consistent about it
1060
01:28:24.085 --> 01:28:24.985
1061
01:28:25.685 --> 01:28:29.465
1062
01:28:31.420 --> 01:28:33.840
I mean, the crazy thing for me is that,
1063
01:28:35.100 --> 01:28:36.480
like, I feel like no matter
1064
01:28:36.780 --> 01:28:37.520
how much
1065
01:28:38.325 --> 01:28:40.025
I do, like, it's fucking
1066
01:28:41.765 --> 01:28:43.785
still not enough. It's always not enough.
1067
01:28:46.380 --> 01:28:52.080
But you have to just remember it. Like, when I say these things, I'm usually reminding myself of these things. When I when I
1068
01:28:52.525 --> 01:28:55.485
when I when I talk publicly, I'm usually talking
1069
01:28:56.925 --> 01:28:59.665
this sounds conceited. I'm usually talking to myself first.
1070
01:29:00.179 --> 01:29:09.400
When people say, like, oh, Matt. Like, why you say stay humble all the time? You're not a humble person. It's like, yeah. Well, that's why you gotta stay humble. You know? Like, that's why you have to repeat it over and over again,
1071
01:29:10.885 --> 01:29:15.625
is because we're all non humble people. Most of us are not humble people. I am definitely not a humble person.
1072
01:29:16.325 --> 01:29:20.100
Most of us are hypocrites. Like, we need to be less of hypocrites. Right?
1073
01:29:21.360 --> 01:29:22.340
Try and be consistent.
1074
01:29:23.360 --> 01:29:30.145
Try and do things that matter. Try and improve situations. Try and, you know, hold the door when someone's, like, trying to walk through.
1075
01:29:30.605 --> 01:29:33.485
These little things, they do add up. Like, you hold the door open for someone, like
1076
01:29:35.850 --> 01:29:39.869
there's a great documentary called the butterfly effect. Like, it it just
1077
01:29:40.250 --> 01:29:45.225
it goes further and further and further, like, as you here you go. I gave you a reference. It's made me so happy.
1078
01:29:49.685 --> 01:29:54.890
It's the happiest I've ever had. Okay. Do you have a real question you wanna ask? Wait. Wait. Hold on. Hold on.
1079
01:29:55.430 --> 01:30:02.285
1080
01:30:03.305 --> 01:30:04.605
attitude that you have
1081
01:30:08.200 --> 01:30:10.620
does not do justice to how much effort
1082
01:30:11.080 --> 01:30:15.740
you put into this space. I mean, we were just talking about before we went live,
1083
01:30:16.245 --> 01:30:17.305
the insane
1084
01:30:17.765 --> 01:30:22.665
travel schedule that you have ahead of you over the next 2 to 3 months. And I think that
1085
01:30:25.100 --> 01:30:27.920
you get a lot of credit for all the work that you do in the space.
1086
01:30:28.460 --> 01:30:32.560
But I I honestly feel like people don't realize, like, how
1087
01:30:33.205 --> 01:30:40.485
much of yourself you give to Bitcoin and to educating to the people around you. And I think it's it's quite remarkable. I I I mean
1088
01:30:42.060 --> 01:30:43.920
1089
01:30:44.780 --> 01:30:46.400
1090
01:30:47.500 --> 01:30:49.920
Here you go find yourself. Ask your question.
1091
01:30:51.405 --> 01:30:53.425
I love you too cute. I'm kidding. Of course.
1092
01:30:54.925 --> 01:30:56.305
1093
01:31:02.190 --> 01:31:04.370
Without saying all the things that I use,
1094
01:31:04.989 --> 01:31:08.530
I definitely don't have the best practices of my own.
1095
01:31:09.795 --> 01:31:11.815
1096
01:31:12.915 --> 01:31:13.655
1097
01:31:17.060 --> 01:31:21.800
at a certain point, is it better to onboard someone for the sake of What is KYC?
1098
01:31:22.740 --> 01:31:23.640
1099
01:31:24.235 --> 01:31:25.535
What is know your customer?
1100
01:31:26.235 --> 01:31:27.855
1101
01:31:28.875 --> 01:31:30.415
1102
01:31:31.489 --> 01:31:31.969
ID
1103
01:31:32.530 --> 01:31:33.909
1104
01:31:34.690 --> 01:31:35.909
1105
01:31:36.289 --> 01:31:37.349
selfie maybe.
1106
01:31:37.730 --> 01:31:39.909
Social Security number. Social Security number.
1107
01:31:40.835 --> 01:31:42.775
Like, what? What type of your child?
1108
01:31:43.955 --> 01:31:46.695
1109
01:31:47.155 --> 01:31:48.695
1110
01:31:51.520 --> 01:31:53.219
Like, my favorite thing to do
1111
01:31:53.760 --> 01:31:56.500
when I do deal with my normie friends is
1112
01:31:57.364 --> 01:32:01.625
I'll get if they already have Cash App, it's so easy to just convince them, hop on over.
1113
01:32:02.164 --> 01:32:04.824
Like, is it better to just onboard someone
1114
01:32:05.204 --> 01:32:06.744
orange pill them, get them
1115
01:32:07.159 --> 01:32:08.619
sort of into Bitcoin
1116
01:32:08.920 --> 01:32:18.665
knowing that that's probably at some point, you've gotta correct the path that they're on, or should they just start off on the right path when it may be a little bit more
1117
01:32:19.525 --> 01:32:21.224
it may have a little bit more friction,
1118
01:32:21.525 --> 01:32:24.025
and therefore, less people will have that appetite.
1119
01:32:26.780 --> 01:32:28.719
1120
01:32:31.260 --> 01:32:32.560
My favorite part about
1121
01:32:34.605 --> 01:32:38.065
my public experience in the Bitcoin space is that
1122
01:32:44.030 --> 01:32:46.850
I have a lot of people that disagree with me all the time.
1123
01:32:47.710 --> 01:32:48.210
Oftentimes
1124
01:32:48.510 --> 01:32:49.010
vehemently,
1125
01:32:49.950 --> 01:32:50.450
very,
1126
01:32:51.150 --> 01:32:53.330
passionate about disagreeing with me.
1127
01:32:54.364 --> 01:32:58.385
Sometimes it flips. Like, they'll agree with me on one thing. They disagree with me on another.
1128
01:32:58.844 --> 01:33:01.664
I like the hot button issues. KYC is one of them.
1129
01:33:03.190 --> 01:33:05.210
We we shouldn't be I you know,
1130
01:33:05.590 --> 01:33:07.210
Harry Potter was mostly a shitcoin,
1131
01:33:07.750 --> 01:33:19.230
but I think the aspect of of not of not saying I'm trying to do as many references as possible. The aspect of the aspect of of not saying Voldemort saying he who must not be named,
1132
01:33:20.030 --> 01:33:25.570
I think is a is very relevant to today's culture. Like, there's a lot of things that people just don't want to talk about.
1133
01:33:26.805 --> 01:33:27.625
And I think
1134
01:33:28.565 --> 01:33:34.265
there really is power in just talking about them. Let's have open discussions about them. Right? So k y c,
1135
01:33:34.730 --> 01:33:35.230
this
1136
01:33:35.969 --> 01:33:36.469
encroaching
1137
01:33:37.210 --> 01:33:37.949
state enforced
1138
01:33:38.730 --> 01:33:39.230
requirement
1139
01:33:40.170 --> 01:33:44.270
to provide intimate personal information to use basic
1140
01:33:44.765 --> 01:33:45.265
necessary
1141
01:33:46.605 --> 01:33:47.105
services
1142
01:33:49.245 --> 01:33:55.480
is absolutely anti freedom. It's horrible for this country. It's horrible for people around the world. It puts us at risk.
1143
01:33:57.380 --> 01:34:07.755
Like even if you're a status, like it puts us all at risk, like it makes it makes America weaker. It makes us less robust. It makes us more vulnerable to potential enemies like China or Russia
1144
01:34:08.110 --> 01:34:11.889
or other malicious actors that might wanna steal our information and use it against
1145
01:34:12.190 --> 01:34:13.730
our own citizens. Right?
1146
01:34:14.510 --> 01:34:24.585
But people in power have decided that their ability to control us, the trade off of putting us at risk to our enemies is is worth it for being able to control us.
1147
01:34:26.320 --> 01:34:28.980
This encroachment is not unique to Bitcoin.
1148
01:34:29.679 --> 01:34:31.060
If you are using
1149
01:34:31.599 --> 01:34:32.099
dollars
1150
01:34:33.335 --> 01:34:36.235
and you are one of our peers who predominantly
1151
01:34:36.535 --> 01:34:40.855
chooses not to use cash, I mean, we've seen with the younger generation, they don't use cash. Like, I
1152
01:34:41.495 --> 01:34:42.475
I'm very unique.
1153
01:34:42.990 --> 01:34:44.450
I'm very unique in this.
1154
01:34:44.910 --> 01:35:00.114
You listen to just pull pull out a lot of cash. Like, do you guys have cash? Yeah. You guys have any cash on you? No. But my father would be furious. We have Mills. We have our great producer Mills over here in the background. You have cash. Wait. Keep in mind, if you don't like the audio quality or video quality, producer Mills, she's in the background.
1155
01:35:00.490 --> 01:35:07.630
I'm kidding. She's mostly just spectating. She did not handle mostly, you can blame Pete. He handled most of the setup. Oh, shit. You do have cash.
1156
01:35:08.255 --> 01:35:11.795
Yeah. Like, you have cash. That's rare among our peers. That's because you like weed.
1157
01:35:12.494 --> 01:35:12.974
But
1158
01:35:13.375 --> 01:35:16.195
Let's be real. The the weed smokers of the youth,
1159
01:35:16.735 --> 01:35:17.235
have
1160
01:35:17.750 --> 01:35:20.890
understood, you know, what it means to do p to p exchanges.
1161
01:35:21.750 --> 01:35:38.119
And, like, at the summer, guys, like, they get a lot of shit, but a lot of things. But one thing they make a lot of sense about is they say, like, oh, you say this shit is too difficult. Like, every weed smoker in America has dealt with it already. Wonderful. And, like, you dealt with it because you had a need or whatever. But my point is is this is a little bit long winded, but KYC
1162
01:35:38.420 --> 01:35:39.639
providing all this identifying
1163
01:35:39.940 --> 01:35:43.480
information surrounds us every point of our life. Like, you check into a hotel.
1164
01:35:43.815 --> 01:35:47.994
You set up Venmo. You wanna use any kind of digital payment mechanism,
1165
01:35:49.014 --> 01:35:51.435
whether that's PayPal, Venmo, Cash App,
1166
01:35:51.909 --> 01:35:56.170
Chase QuickPay, bank account. Right? Like, you're providing all this intimate information.
1167
01:35:56.630 --> 01:35:58.810
You wanna travel on the plane. You're providing
1168
01:35:59.795 --> 01:36:02.695
information. Maybe they're gonna pat you down, grab your crotch.
1169
01:36:03.315 --> 01:36:12.210
Like, people are giving up all this information everywhere. Now Bitcoin was a microcosm for a while because we had no KYC. There was, like, you can it was just
1170
01:36:12.590 --> 01:36:18.695
everything was I it's hard for you guys to realize. No. No. I know. I mean, it was When you go back to 2015, 95%
1171
01:36:19.074 --> 01:36:19.655
of services.
1172
01:36:20.434 --> 01:36:21.094
1173
01:36:21.554 --> 01:36:24.434
1174
01:36:25.870 --> 01:36:28.370
this was that that that non KYC
1175
01:36:29.390 --> 01:36:37.864
parallel economy. Right? And then KYC swept in. It swept in super fast. People called it regulatory clarity. They said it was bullish,
1176
01:36:38.324 --> 01:36:44.570
you know, and it got normalized super fucking quickly in Bitcoin. So it's a very strong sticking point in Bitcoin.
1177
01:36:45.990 --> 01:36:48.090
Now if we're talking about
1178
01:36:48.765 --> 01:36:50.625
using Bitcoin as a money
1179
01:36:51.085 --> 01:36:53.265
that is independent of states and corporations,
1180
01:36:55.085 --> 01:36:56.225
to achieve that,
1181
01:36:59.080 --> 01:37:06.860
it goes to say that you probably shouldn't be giving intimate personal information connected to your Bitcoin and yourself
1182
01:37:07.525 --> 01:37:08.744
to states and corporations.
1183
01:37:09.685 --> 01:37:13.304
So if you're deciding to use Bitcoin as
1184
01:37:15.079 --> 01:37:16.860
a non state resistant, a
1185
01:37:17.320 --> 01:37:18.619
non corporate independent
1186
01:37:19.800 --> 01:37:20.300
money,
1187
01:37:22.735 --> 01:37:25.155
then that makes complete sense for you to
1188
01:37:26.095 --> 01:37:27.795
use a fully regulated service.
1189
01:37:28.335 --> 01:37:33.199
But if your goal is to have a money that is truly independent of states and corporations,
1190
01:37:33.579 --> 01:37:43.775
that is truly permissionless, that truly allows access for everybody. And, like so KYC has two elements to it. It's not only the surveillance and control element, but it's also the exclusion permission element.
1191
01:37:45.755 --> 01:37:49.775
KYC policies restrict a ton of people from using Bitcoin with these services.
1192
01:37:50.640 --> 01:37:53.860
It restricts them from using banking services. It restricts them
1193
01:37:55.840 --> 01:38:02.185
I mean, during COVID, it restricted them from going to certain restaurants in certain bars. It restricted them from traveling to certain places. Right?
1194
01:38:02.885 --> 01:38:07.864
It restricted them from getting phone numbers and basic services, restricted them from getting utilities,
1195
01:38:08.330 --> 01:38:10.270
but it also restricted them from using Bitcoin.
1196
01:38:11.370 --> 01:38:16.030
So the power of Bitcoin to me is that you can use it outside of those services.
1197
01:38:16.485 --> 01:38:21.145
So what I would say at the most basic element, and I don't I'm not a
1198
01:38:21.925 --> 01:38:25.385
extremist on any one side even though a lot of people probably would.
1199
01:38:26.350 --> 01:38:30.450
Ironically, people that disagree with each other would pigeonhole me on both sides and say, like, oh,
1200
01:38:31.150 --> 01:38:39.745
like, you're pro k y c or you're anti k y c extremist. I'm really, like, somewhere in the middle. I want people to be aware of the trade offs. I wanna be people to be aware of the risks,
1201
01:38:40.285 --> 01:38:43.905
and I want people to be aware of the fact that it doesn't have to be exclusive
1202
01:38:44.410 --> 01:38:46.190
per individual. Like, you could have
1203
01:38:46.810 --> 01:38:50.429
you could buy Bitcoin through a regulated service, and you could buy Bitcoin p to p
1204
01:38:50.810 --> 01:38:51.390
in person.
1205
01:38:52.010 --> 01:38:53.550
And you can have 2 separate
1206
01:38:54.315 --> 01:38:56.494
Bitcoin stacks. Right? And one stack might be,
1207
01:38:57.675 --> 01:39:06.260
you pretending you're Wolf of Wall Street, and the other stack might be you pretending that you're Sopranos and you're hiding your duffel bag in the wall. So 4th reference.
1208
01:39:07.600 --> 01:39:08.100
The
1209
01:39:08.640 --> 01:39:11.940
like, you can have that situation. Like, that can be
1210
01:39:12.745 --> 01:39:16.525
how you choose to do it, and that's your personal choice. But what I would say is
1211
01:39:17.065 --> 01:39:21.325
I'm really against the idea of when you're bringing friends and family into Bitcoin,
1212
01:39:21.940 --> 01:39:23.800
that you immediately just say,
1213
01:39:24.180 --> 01:39:29.160
go to this regulated service, sign up, use my ref link. I'm gonna get, like, a portion of your fees,
1214
01:39:30.395 --> 01:39:37.055
and off to the wolves with you. Go submit all your personal no. What you really should do is you should send them a little bit of Bitcoin.
1215
01:39:37.960 --> 01:39:39.020
Let them appreciate
1216
01:39:39.400 --> 01:39:43.660
self sovereign Bitcoin. Let them appreciate being able to download a mobile wallet
1217
01:39:44.120 --> 01:39:46.220
like Moon Wallet with 2 Us. And
1218
01:39:46.864 --> 01:39:59.340
you install the mobile wallet, and you receive Bitcoin without providing your ID, without providing any of this verification information. Just, like, instantly, you're just all of a sudden you're connected to this global financial open monetary network,
1219
01:39:59.719 --> 01:40:08.905
receive some Bitcoin, be able to send some Bitcoin. Like, that is fucking powerful. Like, telling someone to go to some regulated service, give them all their personal information,
1220
01:40:09.740 --> 01:40:10.240
and,
1221
01:40:10.780 --> 01:40:12.640
you know, set up dollar cost averaging.
1222
01:40:13.500 --> 01:40:23.325
It's just like like, I know inflation is bad, but that's not there's no empowerment. There's very little empowerment that's happening there, and they're missing they're missing the forest or the trees of what the Bitcoin
1223
01:40:23.945 --> 01:40:26.285
of of what the power of Bitcoin really is.
1224
01:40:26.640 --> 01:40:35.035
And so even if they choose to actively go to one of these and they might ask you, like, what is my what is the best one? And and, ultimately, it is
1225
01:40:35.415 --> 01:40:36.315
a it is a
1226
01:40:37.175 --> 01:40:44.250
decision that needs to be made. Do you this is a trusted third party. This is someone you're trusting with your private information. Like, it should be
1227
01:40:44.790 --> 01:40:45.290
a
1228
01:40:46.150 --> 01:40:47.130
active discussion
1229
01:40:47.590 --> 01:40:54.395
that is that is educated decision. Right? Like, they're actually thinking about who they're trusting with this information. They might ask you that question afterwards.
1230
01:40:54.935 --> 01:40:57.114
But their first touch with Bitcoin
1231
01:40:57.950 --> 01:41:02.210
should be self sovereign Bitcoin, should be individually empowered Bitcoin.
1232
01:41:06.425 --> 01:41:07.885
1233
01:41:09.785 --> 01:41:11.805
1234
01:41:15.310 --> 01:41:21.730
1235
01:41:23.275 --> 01:41:24.075
1236
01:41:27.035 --> 01:41:33.120
I I don't know how to summarize what you're set what you have said in a an in a more eloquent way. No. But
1237
01:41:33.580 --> 01:41:39.760
1238
01:41:40.465 --> 01:41:42.804
a friend who has no touchpoint to Bitcoin
1239
01:41:43.185 --> 01:41:43.685
already
1240
01:41:44.945 --> 01:41:48.645
were to reach out to me and be like, help me figure this out, help me set it up.
1241
01:41:49.360 --> 01:41:54.340
At least you could explain to them more holistically what it's meant to do
1242
01:41:55.039 --> 01:42:13.219
1243
01:42:13.855 --> 01:42:18.594
But saying, like, oh, yeah. You know, you wanna understand Bitcoin, like, you know, go sign up for,
1244
01:42:19.295 --> 01:42:20.275
you know, fucking
1245
01:42:20.815 --> 01:42:23.700
whatever exchange. Over showing Cash App Cash App.
1246
01:42:24.100 --> 01:42:24.600
Sorry.
1247
01:42:25.620 --> 01:42:26.760
You should not say
1248
01:42:27.220 --> 01:42:27.540
those
1249
01:42:28.580 --> 01:42:29.080
no.
1250
01:42:29.620 --> 01:42:39.890
1251
01:42:40.770 --> 01:42:43.270
1252
01:42:43.570 --> 01:42:53.305
here's an interesting microcosm with Cash App. Obviously, you need to use KYC to use Cash App to begin with. But to use a Bitcoin portion of Cash App, you have to use even enhanced. You have to go further.
1253
01:42:53.765 --> 01:42:58.585
So they might already have Cash App on their phone, but to actually withdraw their Bitcoin to their own wallet,
1254
01:42:59.030 --> 01:43:10.575
they need to go through an additional level of KYC. So it actually doesn't reduce that much friction. It might reduce, like, mental friction of trusting a company because you already trust that company, but you're still providing you're still providing additional information.
1255
01:43:11.114 --> 01:43:11.775
I just
1256
01:43:12.875 --> 01:43:14.495
when you think about it, it's like
1257
01:43:15.850 --> 01:43:18.750
the amount of people that their first touch point for Bitcoin
1258
01:43:19.449 --> 01:43:19.949
was
1259
01:43:20.250 --> 01:43:22.110
entering their home address,
1260
01:43:23.645 --> 01:43:26.625
scanning their driver's license, and then taking selfies.
1261
01:43:27.085 --> 01:43:29.425
And then we go on Twitter and we say,
1262
01:43:30.430 --> 01:43:34.130
like, Bitcoin is fuck you money. Bitcoin is freedom money. Like, this is
1263
01:43:34.990 --> 01:43:41.175
this is, like, the future of money without the state and corporations involved while the majority of people are going straight in
1264
01:43:41.955 --> 01:43:44.215
through state and corporate surveillance machine.
1265
01:43:44.675 --> 01:43:46.695
Yeah. That is a weird It's just so hypocritical,
1266
01:43:47.130 --> 01:43:52.270
and it's just a fucking tragedy. It's a massive tragedy. And and the thing is is, like,
1267
01:43:53.210 --> 01:43:56.670
options are good, and people should be able to choose what they wanna do. But,
1268
01:43:57.245 --> 01:44:01.105
you know, we also talk about incentives in Bitcoin a lot. And
1269
01:44:01.885 --> 01:44:02.784
money talks.
1270
01:44:03.085 --> 01:44:16.014
You know? So most of the public people, they're talking about the KYC regulated services. Why? Because those are the services that make money. Those are the services that pay them. Those are the services that sponsor their conferences and their podcasts and their books.
1271
01:44:17.355 --> 01:44:21.295
So that's what's talked about. There aren't that many people that are talking about
1272
01:44:21.820 --> 01:44:25.520
that you have other options, that you can earn Bitcoin, that you can trade at p2p,
1273
01:44:25.980 --> 01:44:27.440
that you can mine Bitcoin.
1274
01:44:27.900 --> 01:44:31.255
Right? People don't talk about those as as
1275
01:44:31.715 --> 01:44:34.775
as potential on ramps to Bitcoin because there's no
1276
01:44:35.155 --> 01:44:37.175
individual incentive for them to do it.
1277
01:44:37.955 --> 01:44:38.935
And I just
1278
01:44:40.870 --> 01:44:45.450
I think it's important that someone who kind of myself, who stumbled into having an audience,
1279
01:44:46.550 --> 01:44:47.690
talks about those
1280
01:44:48.185 --> 01:44:51.005
situations because there's not enough people talking about
1281
01:44:54.585 --> 01:44:55.405
1282
01:44:59.080 --> 01:45:05.755
1283
01:45:06.315 --> 01:45:06.815
sip
1284
01:45:07.275 --> 01:45:20.470
1285
01:45:21.045 --> 01:45:22.025
Yeah. Yeah.
1286
01:45:26.485 --> 01:45:29.465
I I'm just reflecting on my own experience of getting into Bitcoin.
1287
01:45:30.710 --> 01:45:36.489
You know, in in my my first exposure to Bitcoin was in, you know, 2017. And I did not understand it until until,
1288
01:45:36.869 --> 01:45:38.489
you know, a couple years later. But
1289
01:45:38.949 --> 01:45:39.449
I
1290
01:45:39.975 --> 01:45:43.995
I had the experience that I think you're speaking to which is sort of this this
1291
01:45:45.735 --> 01:45:46.875
this sense of
1292
01:45:47.255 --> 01:45:50.970
expansive freedom of being like, oh my gosh, like, you can one can transact
1293
01:45:51.350 --> 01:45:51.850
in
1294
01:45:52.390 --> 01:45:52.890
value
1295
01:45:54.070 --> 01:45:55.050
separate from
1296
01:45:55.724 --> 01:45:56.385
the existing
1297
01:45:56.844 --> 01:45:57.824
kind of Orwellian
1298
01:46:00.684 --> 01:46:01.184
visibility
1299
01:46:01.485 --> 01:46:02.465
of the state.
1300
01:46:03.090 --> 01:46:22.810
And I'm just realizing that after, you know, in this conversation, like, you're right. The 99 I don't wanna say 99. The majority like 99% of newcomers. Yeah. They don't experience that. That. Like, that was the thing that blew my fucking mind. It was like, oh, my gosh. There is so and I I came in as someone who's building options trading bots and traditional equities and stuff. And I was like, oh, my god. So much liquidity in this space.
1301
01:46:23.190 --> 01:46:27.610
And it is free. Not in the sense of, like, oh, where I'm I'm unable to avoid
1302
01:46:28.070 --> 01:46:28.570
regulatory,
1303
01:46:29.625 --> 01:46:33.725
things so that I can do bullshit things. It was like, oh my gosh. This is actually,
1304
01:46:34.985 --> 01:46:36.125
money that
1305
01:46:37.449 --> 01:46:40.429
can be used separate from state oversight
1306
01:46:40.889 --> 01:46:42.030
corrupt state oversight.
1307
01:46:42.409 --> 01:46:48.235
And I I am just, thinking about how as you said, so a few people have that experience today. Yeah. It's like,
1308
01:46:49.975 --> 01:46:53.195
1309
01:46:54.429 --> 01:46:58.530
non Bitcoin money. Right? Fiat money is essentially on the centralized servers
1310
01:46:59.070 --> 01:47:02.290
that are controlled by governments, corporations. It's not our money.
1311
01:47:02.955 --> 01:47:04.735
It's IOUs. While Bitcoin
1312
01:47:06.475 --> 01:47:08.015
like, the money is in the computer.
1313
01:47:08.475 --> 01:47:09.535
It's like Zoolander.
1314
01:47:13.489 --> 01:47:17.190
Actually, in the computer, you have the keys. You own that money.
1315
01:47:17.810 --> 01:47:20.550
I mean, I guess some people might say it's it's on the ledger,
1316
01:47:20.885 --> 01:47:23.784
But, like, your private keys are on your they're in your computer.
1317
01:47:24.644 --> 01:47:32.590
I mean, I hope not. I hope they're not in your Internet connected computer. No. I mean I mean, hardware wallet is a computer. It's a purpose built computer. Absolutely.
1318
01:47:33.849 --> 01:47:38.190
I think I think the you wanna talk about that. I think that's a interesting topic,
1319
01:47:39.034 --> 01:47:41.054
to go back to your previous non question,
1320
01:47:41.914 --> 01:47:42.735
which is,
1321
01:47:43.114 --> 01:47:46.875
you know, Bitcorners a good show. Bitcorners, we tend
1322
01:47:47.630 --> 01:47:48.290
we're obsessed with Bitcoin.
1323
01:47:48.910 --> 01:47:49.410
Right?
1324
01:47:54.885 --> 01:47:56.505
Bitcoin a lot of Bitcoiners
1325
01:47:57.684 --> 01:48:07.220
are are obviously obsessed with Bitcoin. We're very enthusiastic about Bitcoin. We go down the rabbit hole. We go super, super deep. There's so many different facets of Bitcoin and associated
1326
01:48:07.840 --> 01:48:12.740
parallel systems that you can discuss and talk about and dissect and argue about.
1327
01:48:14.305 --> 01:48:15.125
But, ultimately,
1328
01:48:15.425 --> 01:48:16.565
to me, Bitcoin's
1329
01:48:17.905 --> 01:48:22.245
value prop is in its simplicity. It's a money that you own yourself,
1330
01:48:22.870 --> 01:48:32.250
that you have control of, that doesn't require permission from anyone else, that can't be censored by anyone else, that you don't have to think about. It's a robust, stable system that is just
1331
01:48:32.815 --> 01:48:36.975
existing, and you can choose to partake in it and use it if you want to use it.
1332
01:48:38.735 --> 01:48:40.275
And when you go down this
1333
01:48:40.840 --> 01:48:44.619
you go down that route, you go down that route of Bitcoin and simplicity.
1334
01:48:45.880 --> 01:48:53.725
Like, the majority of people are going to be using Bitcoin on Internet connected devices. They're gonna be using it primarily on their mobile phone.
1335
01:48:54.985 --> 01:48:55.945
They're not gonna be
1336
01:48:57.180 --> 01:48:59.520
you know, some people will choose to use hardware wallets.
1337
01:48:59.820 --> 01:49:11.425
Some people will use multi sig. There'll be all different options, shapes, and sizes. People will have different signing devices, different configurations of how they use Bitcoin. But the overwhelming majority of people
1338
01:49:12.045 --> 01:49:13.665
will be using it on
1339
01:49:14.790 --> 01:49:19.290
247 Internet connected mobile phones, period. They will download a mobile app,
1340
01:49:20.310 --> 01:49:22.330
and they will use their Bitcoin on it.
1341
01:49:23.335 --> 01:49:26.955
And that trade off balance between convenience and security will be
1342
01:49:27.575 --> 01:49:31.515
way better than the status quo for the overwhelming majority of people.
1343
01:49:34.300 --> 01:49:49.470
And bit I think Bitcoin is pretend that's not gonna be the case. Like, that's that is that is the trajectory we're going to. If you choose to use your own node, you choose to hold your own keys on offline devices, print them in steel, have them geographically distributed, That's your prerogative.
1344
01:49:49.850 --> 01:49:54.270
That's what we do. But there's gonna be a lot of people that choose not to do that.
1345
01:49:55.050 --> 01:49:58.325
And that's okay. And that's the reality. And but that's the reality we should be,
1346
01:49:58.885 --> 01:50:06.745
you know, building tools and education for. Absolutely. Not us as much. Like, we we still need our tools in education a 100%.
1347
01:50:07.760 --> 01:50:10.820
But, like, when you talk about, like, the next billion, the next 5,000,000,000,
1348
01:50:11.680 --> 01:50:17.300
you have to talk about mobile phones. You have to talk about hot wallets. You have to talk about improving those trade off models.
1349
01:50:17.945 --> 01:50:18.765
Yeah. And I
1350
01:50:19.865 --> 01:50:20.365
think
1351
01:50:21.545 --> 01:50:24.765
1352
01:50:26.619 --> 01:50:28.400
I think this is extremely relevant
1353
01:50:29.179 --> 01:50:29.920
right now
1354
01:50:30.300 --> 01:50:32.159
because we have tools like
1355
01:50:32.619 --> 01:50:38.495
or or companies like Fetti that are building out, you know, Federated Chow Me and Mints which create which are
1356
01:50:39.035 --> 01:50:45.530
a system that allows it does a a really good job of sort of being this middle ground. You know, you have sort of like these fully custodial
1357
01:50:46.150 --> 01:50:52.175
IOU based Bitcoin systems on one end and then you have people like us who are like, you know, or at least me who's like, you know,
1358
01:50:52.735 --> 01:51:02.160
2 of 3 multi sig, you know, I'm attaching 1 to a seal, 1 to an eagle, 1 to a cheetah, releasing them. And if I deserve it, I'll I'll I'll get it back. Well, I like that strategy. And it's good. It's good.
1359
01:51:04.640 --> 01:51:05.940
You're welcome for my sacrifice.
1360
01:51:07.920 --> 01:51:12.285
And I think FEDI, you know, FEDI Mint Federated Economy and Mints are this really, really powerful
1361
01:51:12.745 --> 01:51:15.965
system that acknowledges as you've said before,
1362
01:51:17.545 --> 01:51:21.969
which is that people will take the path of least resistance. And And so it is our responsibility as Bitcoiners
1363
01:51:22.270 --> 01:51:25.329
who are interested in onboarding as many people as possible
1364
01:51:25.630 --> 01:51:30.045
to this thing that is this truly this life raft, this financial life raft
1365
01:51:31.385 --> 01:51:32.845
to creating these systems that
1366
01:51:34.320 --> 01:51:43.025
help people do that in a way that that meets them where they are. And I think systems like Federated Chime Aidments are one of those examples where you can rely on these existing
1367
01:51:43.325 --> 01:51:44.305
trust structures,
1368
01:51:45.085 --> 01:51:50.685
to create these these or rely on your, you know, existing communities. And I think that's really powerful. And I
1369
01:51:52.400 --> 01:51:54.900
on that same note, I've been trying to think of an analogy
1370
01:51:55.440 --> 01:52:00.340
that will re that resonates with people around how important being able to
1371
01:52:01.075 --> 01:52:03.095
have custody of your own,
1372
01:52:03.875 --> 01:52:04.535
you know,
1373
01:52:05.155 --> 01:52:11.840
money. And and I and I read a lot of science fiction. And I I kinda feel like an analogy that works is
1374
01:52:12.780 --> 01:52:16.880
if we were a space faring civilization or when we are a space faring civilization
1375
01:52:18.140 --> 01:52:19.440
the idea that
1376
01:52:20.375 --> 01:52:21.915
you should not have control
1377
01:52:22.295 --> 01:52:23.675
of your own oxygen.
1378
01:52:24.455 --> 01:52:26.475
I think today people today
1379
01:52:27.230 --> 01:52:30.530
would hear, like, oh, yeah. What if the government was like, yo, we get to control
1380
01:52:31.310 --> 01:52:35.250
whether you have oxygen or not? And if we decide you will die of,
1381
01:52:35.595 --> 01:52:36.975
you know, oxygen asphyxiation,
1382
01:52:37.595 --> 01:52:47.540
that is the way it is. The justice system decides that. I think people today would react and be, like, that sounds fucking crazy. No. I think most people would be cool with that. Are you serious? It's for the greater good.
1383
01:52:49.040 --> 01:52:49.860
Shit, man.
1384
01:52:50.160 --> 01:52:57.105
Maybe I give people too much credit. I feel like if if it was literally the idea that, like, you could literally not be provided with oxygen
1385
01:52:58.445 --> 01:53:01.505
just because of, like, a government fuck up, they're like, oh, I'm so sorry.
1386
01:53:02.170 --> 01:53:05.310
1387
01:53:07.929 --> 01:53:21.710
They're literally about to do it with energy. We're gonna see the case study in real time. I think you're right. But I think even energy is, like, farther removed because people have people Yeah. Oxygen is the core. I mean, what? Like, they made the reference in Spaceballs where they had the
1388
01:53:22.170 --> 01:53:26.990
the bottled air. That the rich people drink the bottled air. No. No. But I thought the reference.
1389
01:53:27.405 --> 01:53:28.225
Number 6.
1390
01:53:29.165 --> 01:53:32.705
1391
01:53:35.150 --> 01:53:38.610
1392
01:53:38.910 --> 01:53:44.335
Like, rich people drink bottled purified water. No. But I think it's different. I think of Everyone else's water is contaminated.
1393
01:53:45.355 --> 01:53:47.535
1394
01:53:48.075 --> 01:53:52.580
and have privacy around with how you transact fresh well water. No. No. No.
1395
01:53:53.600 --> 01:54:01.540
1396
01:54:02.225 --> 01:54:02.725
Absolutely.
1397
01:54:03.265 --> 01:54:05.925
1398
01:54:06.305 --> 01:54:06.805
and
1399
01:54:07.665 --> 01:54:08.165
monetary
1400
01:54:08.545 --> 01:54:10.805
freedom as being akin to
1401
01:54:11.550 --> 01:54:12.210
being in
1402
01:54:13.510 --> 01:54:14.010
space
1403
01:54:15.310 --> 01:54:21.355
and not having access to oxygen. And when people are like, oh, you should be you should have to KYC for your
1404
01:54:21.655 --> 01:54:28.490
your your money. You should have to KYC for your Bitcoin. I think of it as like, how would you feel if you had to, like, KYC
1405
01:54:29.030 --> 01:54:33.770
for oxygen? Where you could your ID for oxygen. Yeah. Where you could literally die within
1406
01:54:34.085 --> 01:54:48.590
4 minutes. 4 minutes, you're fucking brain dead. I think of it as the same same level of importance. I love and respect Odell way too much to let him have to actually answer this ridiculous question. Why? I don't think this is ridiculous. But I appreciate your love and respect. I also appreciate your question.
1407
01:54:48.890 --> 01:54:53.315
1408
01:54:54.255 --> 01:54:56.014
for the 3 of us. But,
1409
01:54:57.054 --> 01:54:57.554
1410
01:54:58.240 --> 01:55:11.775
1411
01:55:13.275 --> 01:55:13.775
Mohammedoff
1412
01:55:18.440 --> 01:55:19.660
had a very
1413
01:55:21.640 --> 01:55:23.660
he had a great line of thinking.
1414
01:55:24.335 --> 01:55:29.235
Very young dude, had a very great line of thinking, like, 2 years ago, then he stepped back behind.
1415
01:55:30.335 --> 01:55:34.940
He stepped back into privacy and didn't want to, you know, be a public figure.
1416
01:55:35.240 --> 01:55:37.580
And what he equated Bitcoin to was time.
1417
01:55:38.680 --> 01:55:42.620
Right? And time is is the most scarce thing we have. Life is short.
1418
01:55:43.155 --> 01:55:45.574
Right? Life is short, and, ultimately,
1419
01:55:45.875 --> 01:55:47.415
everything we do in our life
1420
01:55:48.514 --> 01:55:49.014
is
1421
01:55:49.690 --> 01:55:50.590
exchanging time
1422
01:55:51.850 --> 01:55:52.350
for,
1423
01:55:56.570 --> 01:55:58.830
you know, we're we're exchanging time
1424
01:55:59.155 --> 01:56:05.735
for goods and services, essentially. Right? Or a proxy for that. Right. Or a proxy for that. And the proxy for that for the longest time has been
1425
01:56:06.170 --> 01:56:09.389
has been fiat money that's been controlled by corporations
1426
01:56:10.250 --> 01:56:11.230
and and states.
1427
01:56:12.969 --> 01:56:16.030
And we've essentially been robbed of that time. So you spend,
1428
01:56:16.555 --> 01:56:17.135
you know,
1429
01:56:17.915 --> 01:56:19.135
you you you spend
1430
01:56:20.075 --> 01:56:25.630
your time at work, you go to work, and then you get paid in this inferior good that is essentially
1431
01:56:26.090 --> 01:56:28.110
rug pull by design. They're just taking
1432
01:56:28.570 --> 01:56:32.350
they're taking that time from you over and over again, and you're just losing
1433
01:56:33.130 --> 01:56:33.949
that stored
1434
01:56:35.645 --> 01:56:36.945
value, that stored
1435
01:56:37.885 --> 01:56:40.765
time that is lost. Right? And Bitcoin to
1436
01:56:41.700 --> 01:56:44.680
he I think he perfectly encapsulated that Bitcoin
1437
01:56:45.300 --> 01:56:48.280
is is this embodiment of the value of time.
1438
01:56:48.925 --> 01:56:51.185
So if I put time into doing something,
1439
01:56:51.725 --> 01:56:53.265
I should be able to store
1440
01:56:53.885 --> 01:56:55.745
that effort I put in
1441
01:56:56.350 --> 01:56:57.090
in something
1442
01:56:57.630 --> 01:56:59.090
that's equally durable.
1443
01:57:00.110 --> 01:57:04.450
And and Bitcoin is actually equally durable in that respect.
1444
01:57:04.825 --> 01:57:05.805
And KYC
1445
01:57:06.985 --> 01:57:13.885
steps in the middle of that and as a state and corporate permission layer in between that exchange between time
1446
01:57:16.460 --> 01:57:18.720
and the storage of that effort.
1447
01:57:19.100 --> 01:57:20.720
1448
01:57:21.740 --> 01:57:22.240
People
1449
01:57:22.975 --> 01:57:33.960
do not I agree. Time is the most precious asset that we have available. If people think Bitcoin scares No. No. Time. Bitcoin is a complete shitcoin compared to time. Yeah. It's time and attention.
1450
01:57:34.580 --> 01:57:36.360
You can never They're 1 in the same.
1451
01:57:36.900 --> 01:57:48.880
1452
01:57:50.540 --> 01:57:55.735
1453
01:57:56.755 --> 01:58:03.050
1454
01:58:03.670 --> 01:58:05.610
I don't think the average person
1455
01:58:08.230 --> 01:58:15.975
values their time enough. And the reason I use oxygen is because Nobody does. Nobody does. No. But people Nobody doesn't. Nobody doesn't. Go watch,
1456
01:58:16.435 --> 01:58:25.054
1457
01:58:25.355 --> 01:58:32.335
1458
01:58:33.180 --> 01:58:44.445
where they're literally, like once you go above a certain altitude Some more references. I mean, the book is a 1000 times better. At 1,000,000 percent better. You're absolutely right. John Kirkauer. Has there ever been a movie that was better than the book?
1459
01:58:46.025 --> 01:58:49.565
I'm not gonna let you derail this conversation. No. Derail it for a second.
1460
01:58:50.650 --> 01:58:53.790
1461
01:58:54.409 --> 01:58:57.869
Although, this is a terrible example, but Game of Thrones
1462
01:58:58.305 --> 01:59:00.245
because the books never came out.
1463
01:59:01.025 --> 01:59:03.445
1464
01:59:03.824 --> 01:59:05.125
What about no.
1465
01:59:05.505 --> 01:59:07.125
I I don't know of 1.
1466
01:59:07.580 --> 01:59:09.199
No. I guess National Treasure,
1467
01:59:09.820 --> 01:59:11.840
better or worse than the declaration of independence.
1468
01:59:12.780 --> 01:59:16.480
1469
01:59:17.165 --> 01:59:18.304
1470
01:59:18.605 --> 01:59:26.970
1471
01:59:27.690 --> 01:59:35.150
1472
01:59:35.495 --> 01:59:41.594
1473
01:59:42.295 --> 02:00:36.320
on Everest. And, like, that's it. They run out of oxygen. They're fucking dead. So it's called the dead zone. There's no new name. I'm a psychopath. I wanna climb out. Okay. Great. But you understand. Right? It's like you go above. You're in this area. There's literally not enough oxygen in order to survive. Some people climb it without oxygen. Yeah. No. No. They're dying. They're they're they they can they can assimilate. They're dying. Yes. Exactly. That's exactly what it is. Like, literally, like, when you go Most of the Sherpas don't climb with oxygen. Yeah. They just pace they're dying. Exactly. They they get up there and down pretty the Sherpas? No. No. They get up and down pretty easily. But once you go above 26,000 feet You only have so much time up there. You're literally dying. Like, you're you you stop being able to digest food, your body your your brain starts swelling, your lungs start filling with fluid, and it's literally it's like the people that are the best adapted, the Sherpas who have grown up their whole lives. They know it's like, yeah. Yeah. You can spend this much time above this this this altitude, and then there's nothing you can do. You're gonna fucking die. And my point is that is the best analogy for k y c Bitcoin.
1474
02:00:37.180 --> 02:00:41.600
No. That is the best analogy for fucking Bitcoin. My point is
1475
02:00:41.935 --> 02:00:43.635
people need to be thinking about
1476
02:00:44.735 --> 02:00:45.955
serenity, sovereignty,
1477
02:00:46.415 --> 02:01:00.745
and being able to control their financial future in the same way that they think Mills is literally, like, dying over here. Look at serenity, sovereignty, mix up is, like Gotcha. That's a pretty fun mix up. I've been talking about go ahead. Somebody else talk. Right now. No. No. No. No. So, like, Bitcoin is oxygen.
1478
02:01:01.685 --> 02:01:06.745
1479
02:01:07.070 --> 02:01:11.490
P is Bitcoin is oxygen. I can also buy my bug protein.
1480
02:01:13.630 --> 02:01:14.610
That's his niche.
1481
02:01:14.965 --> 02:01:18.105
1482
02:01:18.405 --> 02:01:22.425
My point is I think that these types of analogies are useful to people
1483
02:01:24.060 --> 02:01:24.560
because
1484
02:01:25.820 --> 02:01:27.120
they allow people to
1485
02:01:28.219 --> 02:01:31.280
view it from a different perspective. That's it. That's all my that's all I'll say.
1486
02:01:31.900 --> 02:01:33.040
1487
02:01:34.105 --> 02:01:39.645
and feel free to quote me on your favorite social media platform if you wish. Bitcoin is oxygen.
1488
02:01:42.219 --> 02:01:46.880
1489
02:01:47.565 --> 02:02:05.380
I'm gonna post it right now so that way people know what night we recorded this. Okay. Wait. Wait. Wait. Real talk. How much have I been talking in this conversation? I I think you've been good. You're fine. I think you've been doing it. Do we quote Odell, or do we quote Pete for this? Definitely quote Odell. I mean, he he said he didn't say it. It's way funnier if you quote Odell. Definitely quote Odell.
1490
02:02:08.265 --> 02:02:09.485
1491
02:02:09.785 --> 02:02:11.405
1492
02:02:12.105 --> 02:02:16.205
I might have already tweeted it. It's fine. She said she might have already tweeted that. Fair enough.
1493
02:02:16.640 --> 02:02:22.659
1494
02:02:23.605 --> 02:02:28.425
1495
02:02:28.804 --> 02:02:29.625
1496
02:02:30.405 --> 02:02:31.545