From Broadway to the Pulpit: Sandra Bargman on Finding Your Sacred Voice

Sabine Kvenberg: Sandra, I'm so happy to have you here today because we have so many things in common and I can't wait. So welcome.

Sandra Bargman: thank you, Sabine. It's fantastic to be here. Thank you for having me.

Sabine Kvenberg: So your background is also the entertainment industry. You're an actress, singer, but then you transitioned to something different, and that is an interface minister. You became an interface minister. So a lot of things to to talk about. But first of all, where are you located?

Sandra Bargman: Well, right now I'm tuning in from my home upstate in the Catskill Mountains of upstate New York. I also have an apartment, a small studio in Harlem in Manhattan, New York, New York.

Sabine Kvenberg: New York, New York. Yes, that's right. My first my very first visit to New York, I stayed with a friend that was close to Harlem. So I remember that because it it was right when I took the subway. I could see that station there. yeah. Have you always did you grew up in New York or was it like a dream and then you moved to New York?

Sandra Bargman: Well, I'm from Pittsburgh originally. I grew up in Pittsburgh.

Sabine Kvenberg: Mm-hmm.

Sandra Bargman: Both my parents are from Pittsburgh. And we moved back. I was born in upstate New York, but we moved back when I was ten. So I grew up there. I went to conservatory there, Carnegie Mellon University. And

Sabine Kvenberg: Mm-hmm.

Sandra Bargman: it was just natural. I went to school for drama and music. And of course, New York City was the place to go if you wanted a pr big professional career. And I had first visited New York when I was sixteen. Course, you know, we went to Broadway shows and it was with my parents and it was fantastic. And I knew I would live there. absolutely knew that I would live there. So I've lived there my entire adult life in different places around the city. Harlem, of course, most recently for the past I'd say 15 years, I've been in in we've been in Harlem, my husband and I. But I've also, since meeting my husband, who's not in show business.

Sabine Kvenberg: Mm-hmm.

Sandra Bargman: and is a scientist by training and he works in the environmental field. I I've also always maintained some place in the country. So it's been and and that has been in upstate New York in the Catskill Mountains, which is very beloved

Sabine Kvenberg: Mm-hmm.

Sandra Bargman: to him and has become very beloved to me. And so to have both the city and the country is a perfect fit for me personally for all of all of the things that that show up in my life, like

Sabine Kvenberg: Yeah.

Sandra Bargman: acting, singing and voiceover work and being an interfaith, interspiritual minister, someone who pursues all of her spiritual longings.

Sabine Kvenberg: Yeah, and especially living in the city, you you you gotta get out sometimes. I I've never

Sandra Bargman: my god, yeah.

Sabine Kvenberg: lived in the city. I mean, I visited New York many a times. obviously also when I moved here and when I had my school, we took some of the students and I was also helping aspiring performers get in front of agents and casting directors. And we had a lot lot of meetings there. So I I know and of course seeing shows. But I'm always I was always glad to come back out of that busyness, right? yeah.

Sandra Bargman: I so hear that. Yeah, absolutely.

Sabine Kvenberg: So how long have you been a performer and what were your experience in showwiz?

Sandra Bargman: Mm. Well, my sassy way of answering a question of like that is that I popped out of the womb, singing, dancing, and acting. And and I really, really did. I was, you know, always drawn to performing and always singing, like truly, literally as a little kid and and putting on little shows in my backyard. I did my first play when I was six years old. I, you know, my parents were wonderful, very supportive of it. I I was playing the violin at six years old. I was singing in choirs even as a little kid. You know, so that was very uplifted. I was also the kid that stood in the corner of the rooms with the antenna. And I was reading the energy of the room. And and I, you know, was fascinated with all things spiritual, the spiritual quest, the spiritual yearnings, the big questions we have about life. Where am where did I come from? Where, you know, what what is death all about? I a fascination for cemeteries and all things. You know, I'd go into churches and I'd be mesmerized by the iconography. I was pretty clear pretty early on that organized religion was not for me. I tapped into that. I it didn't make sense to me, but nature was where I felt connected to all that is. And you know, and I loved the ritual. that I would find in church. And I loved the, you know, the the costuming, if you will, of the church. And I loved, you know, the music. And I sang in choir and all through high school. and then I just really couldn't, I I was finished after that. But so performing, I, you know, I j it's never not been something that I've done. And I decided in high school, I wasn't that kid that was like five years old, I'm gonna be a movie star. That wasn't me. I was interested in a lot of other things, which shows up in my life choices in all the different ways that I work. But my creative life first and foremost led all of those choices. I decided in high school that I was going to be do pursue it professionally and I and got into conservatory, which was great. And I went immediately to New York City and began working and, you know, did all the things that young people do. I did, you know, Broadway national shows, I did off-Broadway, I went did cruise ships, I went to Tokyo, Disneyland. you know, I've sang in the cabaret rooms in New York City and the surrounding areas. So and I've done regional theater and summer stock and voiceover and you know, all

Sabine Kvenberg: So

Sandra Bargman: the things. But d even when I went to become an interfaith minister, I've still been acting. I've never stopped doing that. I've just kept adding all these other loves to my

Sabine Kvenberg: So you are a true artist because you've done so many

Sandra Bargman: So you and who are electricity? You

Sabine Kvenberg: different things. And what you said or what you just shared here just confirmed, my gosh, we have even more in common than we thought we had. The spiritual aspect was always a big part of my life. And at the beginning, of course, we don't realize it so conscious like we do in our adult life. And Literally, I just finished my my my first memoir, my first book, but it's my memoir called Gumpchen, Sacred Whispers, Bold Moves and the Courage to Become.

Sandra Bargman: congratulations. And I read about that. I did my homework for today. Congratulations. Yes. I loved

Sabine Kvenberg: good, good, good. Thank you.

Sandra Bargman: the title.

Sabine Kvenberg: Yeah. And it what you just said is so true for me as well. That I was drawn to to church because I knew there was some energy, there was higher power. But the same thing for me, I was not the the the organized religion, I think just didn't fit for me too. I outgrew it. And So and I share a story with that as well: how another non-denominational church found us to rent space

Sandra Bargman: Yeah.

Sabine Kvenberg: and how I got involved in that and became the music minister. So very, very fun, very, very fun.

Sandra Bargman: Great.

Sabine Kvenberg: so maybe one time I can share it on your podcast. But I would like, yeah, yeah, let's do it. But

Sandra Bargman: Indeed.

Sabine Kvenberg: I would love to know how. And when you decided to become an interfaith minister.

Sandra Bargman: Hmm. I love that question. It was very specific. so again, all my life, spiritual curiosity, reading, doing all sorts of reading. you know, I came of age in the eighties when you know, and Shakti Gawain and and Shirley McLean and books we were coming out with new ways of thinking about spirituality. And of course I devoured them. I I Shack looked into Eastern philosophy, I looked into energy work. You know, I just was constantly curious about it. And as I got older and as, you know. The the life as an actor was not always fulfilling for me. I mean, I loved I love acting, I love being an artist, but I always felt that parts of me weren't being explored to the extent that I wanted. And I couldn't have articulated it like that back then. But it was my sense of and my desire to be of service in a larger way in the world. And I knew. That I walked with wisdom that I was not sharing. And so around the time I did the Broadway National Tour, Cinderella, starring Eartha Kit, fabulous. And I became friends with a woman in the cast who was then become life coaching. Life coaching was just coming on the scene. And you know, so she was sharing with me, and she's like, you would make an amazing. amazing life coach and so I began to look into it. And and I started taking courses and thinking about getting certified. But my sense of how I wanted to be in service was I wasn't finding that the understanding of being a life coach wasn't informing what I wanted. It didn't feel it felt for me personally, this is no judgment about life coaching and many friends doing, continuing, but it felt at the time more like a checklist. than an actual getting into the deeper things that I was feeling that I was being called to. And one day I was looking at a website of someone, I don't even remember who it was, a life coaching website, because seeing what people were doing and how they were learning and how they were talking about doing this work. And up in the corner was the word life coach and interfaith minister. And this light bulb went off. I had no idea what being an interfaith minister meant. It just it The light bulb went off and I knew I had to go down that rabbit hole, and indeed I did. And within a week I had set up an interview with a couple of interfaith seminaries and gotten put put into them. Yep.

Sabine Kvenberg: Before you go on, can you get into what because maybe not everybody knows w exactly what it is. So what is an interfaith minister?

Sandra Bargman: Perfect. And and when I saw Interfaith Minister, I had no idea what it was. So if you ask 10 different interfaith ministers, you'll get 10 different answers. d for me. For me,

Sabine Kvenberg: Hmm. Well what's your answer?

Sandra Bargman: I'm sorry, yeah, just a little hearing that. for me, it is the understanding that all paths, people, all of the at the at the core of each tradition. I'm not talking about the extremists, at the core of each, the goal is. To get to the top of the mountain, the wisdom is all the same. They're all teaching the golden rule. They're all teaching similar paths to get to the quote unquote top of the mountain. They're all searching for ways to bring goodness and unity to humanity. You know, you can pull tease apart the dogma, and we can have lots of discussions of why or why not it works. But

Sabine Kvenberg: Mm-hmm.

Sandra Bargman: an interface for me personally, because I'm not a Part of any organized religion. And many of my friends, seminary friends, are a part of organized religions. It's an understanding. I have a huge curiosity for spiritual journeys. What makes people go on these expansive trips? What expands you? Tell me what expands you. Why do you believe that? That's a huge motivating curiosity of mine. Wanting to know what motivates me. As well, what expands me? How do I feel a bigger sense of unity with humanity and with nature and the ecosystems of this planet? so I I try it, I use interspiritual now probably more than interfaith, because I think interfaith Faith can feel a little co-opted by religion, whereas spirituality, you know, people now understand there's I'm I'm spiritual but not religious. So I probably call myself interspiritual more than I do interfaith minister. And

Sabine Kvenberg: So

Sandra Bargman: you know, when I went to seminary, I I had no idea what that even meant.

Sabine Kvenberg: Yeah, so so so let's continue with the story. So you saw life coaching and interfaith

Sandra Bargman: Interesting.

Sabine Kvenberg: ministry. So then you looked into it, you set up an appointment. What happened then?

Sandra Bargman: And then I I interviewed with the new seminary for interfaith ministries in at that time it was in New York City.

Sabine Kvenberg: Mm-hmm.

Sandra Bargman: And so I I enrolled and did a two-year journey. And and it was marvelous. I it coincided at the time with the my mother was dying of cancer in my first year of so. And she really went into downward spiral in the first year. And while I was in my first year of seminary, my mother asked me to be the minister at her funeral.

Sabine Kvenberg: Mm.

Sandra Bargman: Which is an extraordinary ask. You know, it's it's painful, enormously painful, and a lot to ask. And enormously beautiful and an extraordinary thing to ask. And of course I said yes. My mother was, you know, losing my mother was my biggest fear. so she it was baptism by fire my first year. And it really took me down into the depths, as grief

Sabine Kvenberg: Mm.

Sandra Bargman: and loss most certainly does. And then slowly but surely in s my second year, I I I began to ascend out of that grief and with a bigger understanding of my spiritual quest. and I thank my mother forever for you know, I always say she birthed me twice. I stepped out of the proverbial closet with that baptism by fire, the proverbial

Sabine Kvenberg: Yeah.

Sandra Bargman: spiritual closet. Yeah.

Sabine Kvenberg: How how was it for you? How could you go through even?

Sandra Bargman: Very you know, I would love for you to ask my husband that question. He loves to he loves to tell the story of how it you know, I was like a different human, having to do that. You know, it's it's no easy task to be the grieving daughter and the minister for the community. so I think my my theatrical training, of course, came in very handy.

Sabine Kvenberg: Yep.

Sandra Bargman: you know, I I even sang. Sabine. I sang. We picked out the songs together. I mean, you know, come on. Is can you imagine?

Sabine Kvenberg: wow. Yeah, yeah. You have to shut yeah, you have to shut off that that connection, that emotion, and postpone it for later. I I know, I I I must say I I sang at the funeral for my my father in law. I was able to do it fine. And then I was supposed to do the same thing for my mother in law and I couldn't. I was very close to her and but I know what you're saying. the the the acting skills will come very handy to to that so with that said now you have that new career or somewhat a career what are you doing today are you more in this direction are you a coach are are you acting do do you do all

Sandra Bargman: Do it all. It's not it not easy. obviously I don't act as much as I used to, because I I don't have A, the time and B the full interest to go after it in that way. that's

Sabine Kvenberg: Mm-hmm.

Sandra Bargman: necessary if you want to work all the time. You just have to be constantly on it. And and I love doing other things too much. I'm if I get a couple of shows a year, I'm happy. That's wonderful. I also have in the Interfaith Minister track. I also have I do weddings, which I adore. It's sort of a wonderful way of combining ministry with performing. And I love creating them. I love these unique ceremonies that I come up with for these very unique couples. Interspiritual, weaving all of those traditions and understandings together in a way that That tells their unique love story and how they want to honor the traditions or not, to what extent. I do spiritual counseling. I did a second seminary journey for two more years for advanced certification in spiritual counseling. I became a dean of first-year students at the seminary through which I was ordained. I did that for four years. I in addition to still acting, still doing voiceover work. I then I started after that I started my own company called Sacred Stages, which combined, of course, my performing with my ministry in a more overt way. And I produced some plays with a playwright friend of mine, also from Pittsburgh, that were very overtly spiritual. And of course I acted in them. I produced them and acted in them. And then I did my own one woman show called The Edge of Every Day, which combined the the idea of cabaret, but I fashioned it like a ritual. I crafted it like a ritual, so I called it a cabaritual. And it was just me speaking about the spiritual concepts that I wanted to teach, that I wanted to lead with, surrounded with music that I loved and and comedy and text and you know, a great band. Which and I love that project. I wrote music for it. I did a a rap song in the middle of of everyday people. you know, I called it my my white woman rap song.

Sabine Kvenberg: music for it. I did a a rap song in the middle of everyday baby. you know I called it my my white woman rap song. I would love to hear that one.

Sandra Bargman: Midlife My on my YouTube channel. Sound of Marchman on the edge of every day. But but yeah, I I adored that project. I did it for a year and a half, close to two years, and recorded it, which you can find on Amazon and C D baby. You know, and then I was doing other things, and I combined and then I Wanted to update the show and covet hit.

Sabine Kvenberg: Mm.

Sandra Bargman: Yeah, so and I went into menopause during the first year of COVID. So it was like severely depressing to me. Yeah. And

Sabine Kvenberg: Well, perfect perfect timing.

Sandra Bargman: you know, if COVID wasn't enough, here you go. And

Sabine Kvenberg: Yeah, yeah.

Sandra Bargman: yeah, fun times, fun times. But I did manage to decide that I would turn the edge of every day and the concepts that I put forth in that show, utilize that whole idea and turn it into a podcast, you know, at the time. which folks, the edge of everyday podcasts streaming on all your favorite platforms. I at the time, you know, everybody was becoming a podcaster, and I just thought, ugh, I should, I know, we need another podcaster, like we need a hole in the head. And my friends gave me the same advice that I would have given them. You know, they said, Sandra, you have a very unique perspective, and people need to hear about it. And this the more people are gonna hear about it through a podcast than through the edge of everyday solo show. And as much fun as you may have had with that. And which is not to say I can't do it again, but but I've loved having the Edge of Everyday podcast. And the for those listening, the concepts that I put forward is the edge between the duality of life. It was very present in my life watching how people were d d here in the United States, the polarizing political landscape, you know, that either or black or white, good or bad, you know, we had to make a choice when at right at the center, that rough edge at the center is where the answers can be found, where the creativity can be found, where the diversity, where the real change happens. And so that was the idea. And that those are the same ways that I come to every conversation that I have on the edge of every day. The

Sabine Kvenberg: I love it.

Sandra Bargman: other way that I put all of this together during COVID was I had been helping people occasionally, coaching them on how to to have better presence, better voice, better diction, using actor techniques, just helping people the d with greater presence. And

Sabine Kvenberg: Mm-hmm.

Sandra Bargman: so I decided or at the beginning of COVID, I'm gonna hang a big fat shingle for this. I'm gonna make this official. And s I did. I got onto website maximize you.life. I started reaching out for in-person or no, well, it wasn't in when I say in-person at the time, it was via Zoom. it it's in person now, but it's primarily on Zoom now, helping people with their voice presence and storytelling skills. And in particular,

Sabine Kvenberg: Mm-hmm.

Sandra Bargman: a niche that I do is helping people who are podcasters. you whether they're a host or they want to start guesting, how do they land their message? How do they curate their story in a way and deliver it in a way that's quick, informative, impactful, interesting, all using actor techniques and spiritual counseling.

Sabine Kvenberg: So that brings me to a point very, very great because I know it's very powerful when we incorporate our stories and if we bring those techniques to it. For those listening, and they may think, yeah, so how do I do this? Now, can you give some very simple, easy steps someone could do today to be a Better presenter if they wanna get a guest spot on a podcast, or maybe who is a podcaster and want to have a better presence during that podcast interview or episode.

Sandra Bargman: Well, I think people the people that I work with shy away from they shy away from being vulnerable about their story. So I would offer that the places where you to analyze the places where you think people aren't gonna be interested in in a a story from your past that you know Informs your message today to combine the two. Find a way to combine the two and know that your vulnerability about that, you're going to reach someone who's going through that. And and how you stepped out of it, it you're going, it's a win-win situation. You're not going to be embarrassing. You're not going to embarrass yourself. You're going to empower people. And that's why they're going to want to. Have you on as a guest, that's why people are gonna invest in you, they're gonna wanna hire you, they're gonna wanna read your book, they're gonna do all those things. that's one. The other one is, and I just talked about this on a a podcast that dropped on my show. It was a conversational replay of a conversation I had with Amy Lynn Durham of Magic Thread Media. I think people d are quick to speak too quickly to thinking that they're a they're they're being interesting when they can learn to take a nice breath. Breath is a thing that people do not utilize in a powerful way. Take a breath and command people to look at you, to listen to you, to wait with you while you gather your thoughts. Don't fill fill that moment with ums and this and duh duh. Take a moment. Be confident in that and people will listen and will come with you.

Sabine Kvenberg: Amen. That is so impactful and important to have that pause, to take your breathing as part of the presentation. And of course, so many other things are part of it, like your body language and vocal variety and all this good stuff. But those two things I think are very important and if you just incorporate those two today you you already are better than you were yesterday so thanks for sharing thanks for sharing

Sandra Bargman: Absolutely. Of course, a pleasure.

Sabine Kvenberg: so it's just so amazing to see how people develop throughout their lives and how interests change as we what I call Become our next greater self. Because that's what this podcast is all about. We have to become the person we are meant to be to live the life we are destined to live. And you are a living example. So

Sandra Bargman: Yeah.

Sabine Kvenberg: before I let you go, I have one more question. Oftentimes in our lives, we have very challenging situations. And It brings us down to our knees. You

Sandra Bargman: Yeah.

Sabine Kvenberg: already mentioned your situation with your mother, but was there something

Sandra Bargman: Yeah.

Sabine Kvenberg: in the career that you thought, this is enough, I I cannot do

Sandra Bargman: This is not.

Sabine Kvenberg: this anymore? But you did it anyways.

Sandra Bargman: Hmm. Nothing is coming to mind. This is enough. I cannot do this. I mean, there've been gigs that I'm not happy that I did back in the day, you know, where you said yes and you wanted to be a professional. And meanwhile, the gig itself was so unprofessional and you didn't get out of it because you didn't want to offend anyone or get a bad reputation when you should have absolutely run, not walked away from

Sabine Kvenberg: Mm-hmm.

Sandra Bargman: that situation. So there's a few of those I did back. early on in my career.

Sabine Kvenberg: And I think this is a very valid observation because many people just get stuck in something or they said yes to something that they, you know, shouldn't have or would have been better not. But the question is too, we learn from that and we move on and are better off the next time.

Sandra Bargman: totally. Totally. Well, I mean, there's the highest spiritual lesson right there is that you've got to understand that, you know, every single thing is an opportunity, a learning opportunity.

Sabine Kvenberg: Mm-hmm.

Sandra Bargman: And everybody's a teacher. I mean, if you can live in that space, you're the better off you're gonna be. Does that take away the the suffering in the moment? Maybe not. I mean, you know, in red certainly it didn't for me. I writhed with like, my. God, how did I say yes to this? And my God, I'm conservatory trained. What am I doing here? But you but absolutely. And then I did learn. so yeah, I mean, I'm s I certainly don't regret it. And Lord knows I have fantastic stories that my husband and I still tell around a couple of those gigs, the you know, people that we met around like periphery situations

Sabine Kvenberg: Yeah.

Sandra Bargman: that we tell to this day. like side splitting stories. So there, there's that. For storytelling. It was good.

Sabine Kvenberg: And that's right, right, that's it. That's another part. You know, all the experiences that we have in life, and even though it was bad at that time or painful, but we went

Sandra Bargman: Yeah.

Sabine Kvenberg: through it and have stories to tell, right? And those are the stories, and for everyone listening to, when we talk about storytelling, bring your story into the presentation. This is when people connect with you because they can see themselves perhaps in your story and the you have that connection. So, Sandra,

Sandra Bargman: Yeah.

Sabine Kvenberg: now maybe someone is listening right now and said, I want to get married, but in a different way. So, how can someone get in touch with you to to find more about what you do and how you can help them?

Sandra Bargman: Well, in terms of weddings, if you are you know, I I do weddings here in New York, I've done them in other co states, throughout the surrounding area. But, you know, if you want me in person, you can fly me there. But but I can also write a ceremony for you that someone that you know can deliver. if if you don't want to spend the money to fly me somewhere. But if you live close enough to me in New York or upstate New York, then you can hire me directly. You can go to my website, sandrabargeman.com, and there's no e in bargeman. And you can find me on Wedding Pro, The Knot, and Wedding Wire. That's a way to find me in terms of weddings. If you are considering wanting to speak with me about voice presence and storytelling, you can go to Magic Threat, you can go to Sandrabargeman.com and reach out to me directly or magicthreadmedia dot com and book a twenty minute phone call to find out if working with me would be beneficial. You

Sabine Kvenberg: Wonderful.

Sandra Bargman: can find me at, like I said, my YouTube channel, Sandra Bargeman on the Edge of Every Day. And I'm sure it's all

Sabine Kvenberg: And I make sure that we have all those links in the show notes.

Sandra Bargman: Excellent. Thank you.

Sabine Kvenberg: Sandra, thank you so much for being here and sharing your story. It was very delightful. And I can't wait for our next conversation.

Sandra Bargman: It was a complete pleasure and joy. And yes, it was great to understand how similar our journeys have been. And I look forward to having you on the Edge of Everyday podcast. Thank you again for having me.