The Podcast IS the Mountain - Appreciating Podcasting's Opportunities

0:00 Ask the podcast coach for June 15, 2024. Let's get ready to podcast. There it is. It's that music. It means it's Saturday morning. It's time for ask the podcast coach where you get your podcast questions answered live. I'm Dave Jackson from the school of podcasting.com, and joining me right over there, it's not Jim. No. It's everybody's favorite Scotsman, Danny Brown from dannypod.com. Danny, how's it going, buddy? All good, mate. I am super excited to be on this. I I imagine I'm gonna be gym light this morning. I don't have, like, the hair or anything, but I'll try my best. You'll I'm sure you'll be fine.

0:40 Danny is the head of podcaster support over at captivate.fm, which I'm a fan of. And I've bumped into you a couple times at different conferences and such. And I was like, you know, there's a guy I'd like to hang out with more and that would be Danny Brown. So thanks for, what time is it over there? Well, you're in Canada. So you're not like in the UK. But what time what time zone are you in? I'm on Eastern. So currently 10:30 in the morning. Same as you. There you go. Not a problem. Excellent. Well, one of the things we do here, Jim usually does it. I don't even I have a whatever the I have a water bottle. I don't have a coffee mug, but, Jim likes to drink coffee. And so, that coffee pour, which would be this one, is brought to you by our good friend Mark over at podcastbranding.co.

1:23 If you want to look good, look, they see you before they hear you. There's really only one place to go, and that is podcastbranding.co. He's done all of my artwork for all my shows. And the beautiful thing about Mark is he's going to sit down with you 1 on 1, which you're not going to get from somebody on Fiverr. And really, like, he wants to know about your show so that your artwork can match what your show is about. I mean, he's the marketing guy. You're not. And with Fiverr, you got to do the marketing part then have somebody hopefully design something that looks good, and that's just not the way it works with Mark. He's awesome. He's also a podcaster. So if you need any you don't have to explain what a podcast is. He'll design a website, he'll design a lead magnet, he'll design your logo. Again, if you want anything to look good, there's really only one place to go, and that is podcastbranding.co.

2:25 We're like Joe Rogan, Danny. We do all the ads up front and then we can get out of the way. But we also want to thank Dan from based on a true story podcast.com. If you've ever like, I know for me, if you're in a theater and you're watching the trailers and it's all dark and it's a black screen and then white letters show up based on a true story. Well, Dan is the guy that goes, okay, based is not this is exactly fact. It's like it's based on a true story. And if you want to know how much liberty did they take with the story, what is one place to go based on a true story podcast.com? Dan will fill you in on he brings on experts and stuff. Like, I know I was checking out the one on Napoleon, and apparently the movie is not exactly what you might call accurate. But that's always the fun part when you're skipping centuries at a time. How do you squeeze all that stuff in? So with that, as always, if you have any questions, if you're watching live, you can throw them into the chat room or if you want to actually jump into the video, you can go to ask the podcast coach.com slash question.

3:29 And so one of the things I wanted to start off with today that I thought was a kind of a got to think about that one a little bit was and I'm looking for it. I just had it. What is the end game? So this person asked this question. He says, example, in the 19 nineties, the goal of every comedian was to get a sitcom. So in this day and age, what is the end goal of podcasting? What is the ultimate mountaintop? I know we want to maximize plays and subscribers and sell merch and get brand deals and sponsorships. But like, what's next? What are we supposed to be striving towards? Don't get me wrong. Just podcasting is something I love doing. But if I want this path to be long term, I just try to see what I should be looking for on the horizon. And I, when I saw this, my gray hair, like, just grew because I remember being in, like when I was playing music, like we wanted to get our CD. We're like, we're going to record a CD, but where can we sell it? Because back then the internet was still kind of new and we couldn't get into Best Buy. We couldn't get it into local stores. We didn't have access to everyone. And so my answer to this guy was, you're kind of missing the boat here. Like, podcasting is the mountaintop. You're on the mountain going, where's the mountain? And I was like, if you think about it, like for me, and this is just me, but I talk about a subject that I love.

4:56 I get to meet awesome people like Danny, who do the same things I do so we can geek out on that. I, in some cases, I use about 5 different monetization strategies, so I make a little bit of money along the way. I grow my circle of friends. I grow my influence. I've gotten a few jobs because of my podcast. I get more comfortable as a speaker. I've had times when people have just said, Jackson, can you get up and say something like literally just off the top of your head? And I'm much better at that. I am boosting my knowledge of making content now, and I think I'm better at that than I was, say, 19 years ago. And I mean, for me, I'm doing what I love. So for me, this is the end game.

5:37 And I just read a book by the and people are going to go see talking about the guy from system of a down again. Yeah, it was actually an interesting book. But he said the real art isn't in the finished art piece, whatever it is. In our case, it's an MP 3 file. He says the real art is in the creation, like the process you go through. So I don't know. I mean, I get what he says, like when you're a comedian on the tonight show or Jimmy Kimmel or, what is it? Graham Norton over in the I keep thinking in the your accent makes me think you're in the UK and you're not. You're just north. I'm just here to confuse you, Dave. My role in life. But I don't know. What are you what are your thoughts on this, Danny? Yeah.

6:17 I think I just like to say, you always need to have a sort of a long term plan. I know, Ashley Hamer, the, over at the script, she mentions this all the time where you have to plan out what you want for your show. So you were on about last week's episode of life last week's stream. You're on about what happens when I get 5,000 downloads. You know, what next? And for me, it's it's like you say, podcasting is the end goal. It's what you do from there. So is it to boost your personal brand, your business? Is it to boost sales at company? Is it to boost awareness of a company? Is it to get you, you know, speaking on podcast shows like this, etcetera. So it's I feel that that question, I saw that on Reddit and I was waiting for you to jump in. Actually, I thought this is a question that Dave was gonna jump in on and lo and behold. Yeah. I think I saw that question. I thought that was a strange one because it does sort of ask the wrong question because you should already know what you want the podcast to do for you. And that's part of the goal. We start on it.

7:14 If you're taking it serious over as a hobby podcast, it's entirely up to you what you do. It's fine. You love it. You know, full power to you. But if it's something that you want as a serious thing, you should already have all that stuff in mind as to what next when you reach go 123, etcetera. Yeah. That's, I know we all want more downloads, you know. Oh, I'm like and that's I put out a newsletter a couple weeks ago that said, okay, what happens when you get them? Like, what are you gonna do with that? You know, what is the end goal? And you kind of need to, we talked about this a couple weeks ago. Stephen Covey has a great book. It's an old book, but it's a good book called the 7 Habits of Highly Effective People. And he says, start with the end in mind so that you don't go 3 years in the wrong direction, you know, and they go, oh, I really wanted to, you know, position myself as an authority. I'm like, well, then maybe doing an interview show isn't the best way to, to go. And, we do have, if you have these, Danny's like, oh, great. I get to go to work. But look, I work for Lipson. Danny works for Captivate. I have no problem. We're just here as podcast people. So there's, you know, I love them both. But, Doctor says, one of my clients is on Captivate, and I love working with it. But can you talk about features that are underutilized that people might not know about? Yeah.

8:28 I'll give you a couple of stuffs. I don't want us to become a captivate promo on your show, man. No. Yeah. I would Again, I'm fine with it. So go right ahead. I would say one of the most underused is dynamic show notes. They're awesome. You can create a template, a default template that loads every time you publish an episode. You've got dynamic blocks and short codes that you can change up. So if you've got a guest on that's regular and they're on a 100 episodes and they change their job to a new job, Dave, at Libsyn, anything like that. And you've got an old bio there. You can just go in and update the shortcode, and I'll change all the details on every single episode that shortcode added to. That's a great time saver from an episode planning point of view. And then probably the the attribution links, I would use that if you're promoting your podcast. We have a feature called attribution links. Basically, you can create nice simple short codes. You can use it either in your show notes or as an audio call to action. And we will track every time that's typed into a browser or click from the show notes. And it will give you a really good idea which promos are working, which isn't. Does the audio CTA work better than the show notes CTA, all that stuff? But we also an awesome playlist over on YouTube called live. Go to the live tab on our YouTube channel. And I did a bunch of, Captivate secret hack live streams last summer that shows you some of the the stuff that you might not know you can do there, but now you do. So that'd be a good place to start as well. The one that I thought was like, oh, this is cool is for a while I was doing a show about Akron, Ohio. And so I would go out and find stories and there's a chrome extension that you

9:59 can add. And you basically, like, I'm going to use this in the future. So if I found a story someplace, I'd be like here, add this to I think it's the show planner or forget the actual term of it is, but you basically can say save this. And then later, as I'm making the show and I talked about those stories, I could easily put them into the show notes. And I was like, that was like, I was like somebody's using their noodle over there. That was really useful. So I know, every time I hear Mark talk about how they come up with features, he's like, we're either going to save you time or help you make some money. And I was like, that's pretty much the criteria that people are looking for. So, but, yeah, it's, if you haven't used it here, go to support the show.com/captivate. That's my Captivate affiliate, which they also have. And it's a fun it's a fun you guys doing some good stuff over there. I appreciate it. Not another question here from Ralph says, with many of us adding video output, do you use Captivate?

10:58 Do you see Captivate adding a place where we can place your link for our YouTube or Rumble upcoming upcoming episode? It allows you to use your website. Well, you did. You guys just added something with YouTube. What how does that actually work? Because I see we're in an episode. You can add a link to your YouTube. So what happens when you do that? Yeah. So that's using the alternate enclosure tag, podcasting 2.0 tag. And, basically, if you got a YouTube video and you grab that link and you add it, when you're creating your episode, there's a link under the marketing section for your episode. You drop that link in there. That will appear if you use the Captivate website or the WordPress plugin sync. I believe it works now on the sync. We updated that. I think the video will appear embedded on your website for that episode, or it will appear on the player as a video option, and if you click that will show related videos from your channels. I think Ralph's asking about if you're scheduling it and I don't think currently I know we pushed a fix out yesterday that might address that. But currently, the the video has to be public, you know, to appear on the the site. But I think we're either pushed 1 out or pushing 1 out to support the scheduled link and preview, etcetera. It'd be cool to see if this would work. If I got the link for this video now and posted it to my episode page, it'd be cool to see if this would actually stream. I believe it would. Have to test that. Yeah. We'll have to play with that. But, yeah, and what would be interesting, I have to ask Brendan, because I know Ralph uses pod page and pod page has a thing where you can put a link to the video. And so it'd be interesting to see because I'm assuming does

12:29 that we're getting so nerdy. I love this. The the YouTube link, does that actually end up in the feed then? Because you said it's part of the alternate enclosures. It does. Yeah. So the tag will be pushed through on each episode. It's got the video link and it'll say alternate enclosure tag is being used. So if you're using a podcast app like, Trufans, it's Sam on Yeah. Sam Teffy, Or I think Podcast Guru does it as well maybe. There's a few apps that support the alternate the alternate enclosure. So that will allow you, Tyler, choose from the video or the audio version, whatever you wanna play back on these particular apps. Yeah. So in theory, if the links there, you would think Brendan said the guy who's never done a bit of coding in his life, it should be easy to just pull that out of there. Pick it up. Put it in there. Yeah. Chris Stone from castahead.net. Big Captivate fan. Been using it for years and I love the consistent and valuable improvements. Yeah, it's good stuff and it's fun.

13:18 Yeah. Yeah. Ralph says a Yeah. Ralph says it does not work with pod page, so I have to manually add it each day. Yeah, that's, I mean, they're going to be some things. It's hard to have every host work in a way. Now, you would think because RSS, they kind of should. But like I know, like pod page will like if you put a an SRT file in for your transcript, well, pod page will pull that file, which isn't made for people. The SRT file is made for apps. And so when you look at your transcript on pod page, you're like, Ugh, well, I just go. So I know now I download the SRT and then I download the actual, like, human reading the transcript.

14:04 And the cool thing about pod page is if you wait, I don't know, 2 minutes and refresh, once you've published and it's in your feed, it'll pick up that new episode, and then I just copy and paste it. So, yeah, it's just one of those things would be we would love to have everything just automated, but there's always gonna be a copy and paste probably in there somewhere occasionally. So, you know, it is what it is. Because it's RSS and a lot not a lot of I don't know if I am Brandon. I guess Brandon must have Brandon must support the podcast in 2.0 stuff because you got transcripts get pulled through. Yeah. He he's supporting a lot of stuff now. That's actually pretty cool. So and, yeah. Oh, here we go. He says, yeah, he says, pod page does pull in a YouTube playlist. Yeah. If you want to, you can have you put in your playlist and it will just make a post about videos so you can have a link on your Web site. So if people want to watch your YouTube stuff, doesn't put it into the episode. But, yeah, it's, and what's fun for me is I just have one YouTube channel, but I have multiple shows about On a pod page, we often send podcasters over there that need more than what the the free site offers. But it's obviously the one videos, the one, you know, reviews pages, etcetera. So, Yeah, I love what Banana is doing at PodPage. Yeah, Captivate actually has, for me because I know you make it really easy to integrate with email. So that's kind of cool because most of them, whether it's buzzsprout or Libsyn or whoever, usually the building one is a great place to listen and follow the show.

15:34 And if you want to go above that, you know, that's, it's that's not really what it's designed for. But, yeah, they're all handy. And, and Ralph says, I want it all. Come on, man. And I want it now. There's a great Queen song that, ed x. Yeah. Yeah. The other thing I thought I would ask you about because I heard about it today was listening to, Pod News Weekly, and they're talking about this new Spotify video thing, which I have not played with yet. I've heard about it. And then they said, well, so and so played with it. And Danny Brown from Captivate was playing with it. And I said, oh, good. I'm going to ask Danny Brown from Captivate. So from what I understand well, I'll let you just tell it, then I'll ask questions. Yeah. So I mean, the Spotify supported video podcast for the longest time, but you had to host with Spotify for podcasters or have a host that supports video podcast. So now Blueberry supports that, I think. Does Lipson or Buzzsprout support video, I think? We do. Yeah. HotBean does. Buzzsprout doesn't. You guys, I think, don't at this point. We don't. No. So I think it's you main 3. Right? So blueberry, ellipsin, and pod bean are the big 3. Is it? Alright. Yeah. So I am obviously, you could push video out to, you know, YouTube. And I believe Spotify through the RSS feed as well. But for anybody that didn't host both Spotify, you couldn't push video to Spotify. And what the release there, it looks like a soft release. I know James spoke about it last summer, I believe he said, like, or even just at the end of the year, about 6 months ago, that Spotify now let anybody add video. But I think they've now actually released

17:07 it to everybody. And I just found it by accident. I was actually logged in to Spotify for Podcasters to look at analytics for another video. I was meant to be doing that time, and a pop up said, hey, you can now add video and here's what we do. That's really easy to do. If you've got a YouTube video, or your own video that you upload to YouTube, when you're in your Spotify for podcasters dashboard. As a host as a podcaster that doesn't host with them, cause they call their hosting company the same thing, which is really confusing. But if you're a podcaster and you log in to pass Spotify for Podcasters, next to every episode, now you've got 3 little dots. You click that says upload video. So you can upload an MP 4 video there. And then that will play back on Spotify. There are a couple of caveats. So And I know James and I'm sure you'll talk about it, Dave. I don't I don't want James to be very particular about this. Is the issue seems to be that when you do that, it essentially nukes the RSS audio for that episode because they'll default to the video option. And then, if you do have on your Spotify app, if you have it toggled to only play video, if your WiFi connected, that's the only time you play video. If you're not playing video, they'll use the audio from the video. So the analytics for that particular episode won't be pushed back to whoever you're host with. So that's a bit of a naughty move by Spotify, I think. Yeah. That's what I was like, wait a minute. So Spotify way. Yeah. Well, they like to do things because, you know, well, we're gonna do this and it'll work in Spotify. And then you're like, yeah. But, like, what about other places and such? And were you at the pod show in London? I wasn't. No. I was at the podcast movement, which I made up

18:38 when I caught up with you last year Yeah. In August in Danford, but I wasn't in London. No. Because I've heard about their booth. And then James said that they had this big open booth, but yet you would go in there and they're like, no. This is appointment only. And I was like, that sounds like somebody making fun of Spotify. Like, why would you do that? I'm a wall down then. Yeah. The other thing I always like to point out, and this is just me, so it's a survey of 1. But it dawned on me, I looked at it, that I've had 13 episodes of Ask the Podcast Coach video on Spotify now for a year because I went down and looked at there was I don't know if it's in this screenshot, but it was something like a really decent title and it had absolutely you can see most of these have 0 plays. And so as much as people like, oh, spot absolutely horrible on Spotify and then others like podcast absolutely horrible on Spotify. And then others, like, Podcast Rodeo Show always has a decent Spotify kind of audience. But my other shows just don't. I don't know if that applied to more of a younger audience or something. Who knows? But, yeah, I just to me. So I saw that as okay. So let's say they've, you know, it's my ask the podcast coach. My audience is used to getting audio and then all of a sudden they don't get a choice for audio anymore. It's like, no, you're gonna get the video and if they have their podcast app set to download the episode, you know, I'm

20:11 assuming it's then gonna download the video. I guess on Spot, no. Spotify doesn't because we're only talking about Spotify. I don't think Spotify has a download, like automatically download episodes feature. I think it does actually, mate. I think they changed that. I think so. Don't quote me. I think on the app, on your phone app anyway, and it may be Android. I'm on Android. I don't know if it's the same. On iOS, it might be different. I think on Android, you can have the option to download automatically, but you also have to toggle. So in your app settings, you have to toggle if you wanna watch video. And if you do, how you access it. So Oh, interesting. If it's only on Wi Fi, and then only download the if you don't wanna download the video version, only download the audio version. But the problem goes back to if they're pulling the audio from the video version, you're gonna be downloading the video audio. So it's still it's fine for the end user. They don't we are the listeners don't care how the content comes in. But for us podcasters, if we're trying to keep the analytics in one place as much as possible Yeah. Obviously, if you've got a big show on Spotify Spotify is not even my top time for for app listeners. So I I don't care. But I know of people who's got big audience on Spotify, and that's gonna start impacting what they see in their host site, then that's gonna be an issue, obviously. Yeah.

21:21 And if you're doing anything, you know, if you're not doing a if you're selling ads and it's not per episode and you need to know your download numbers so you can know what to charge your advertiser, you just added another place to come check your stats. And I'm like, so that's where I know, Ralph was there in the chat room and he's on Rumble, he's on YouTube and he's on Captivate. And so we always have to kind of any time we talk about growth, we're like, well, we got to go look at all these places now because even if the audio isn't going up the way we want, what are these other places going? I think was Kevin Schmidlin from Grow the Show said that he was telling people, like, go look at your ex account and go look at threads and go look at all your social because a lot of times if we just look at, you know, the podcast, maybe the podcast is growing slow while your newsletter is, you know, taking off and going crazy. So, you never know. Exactly.

22:19 And and we are I mean, as podcasters, we are kinda used to access in multiple areas for audience information. But a lot of the time, like you say, we might not be thinking, you know, to look at the newsletter, to look at the social audience and include that in your sponsor packages. Yeah. Absolutely. Well, the other thing while you're here, how many podcasts? This is so fun. I get to ask this to somebody else because I get this all the time. How many podcasts do you actually have right now? So as you go to the I don't do it now because I'll say we're in the live stream. But if you go to the link in my name there, that has all my current and past podcasts. So I've got podcasts of archive. They're still live, but I'm not updating them. So I think at the last current, I've probably got between 1015. I don't know.

23:05 There you go. Yeah. So so Be active currently. Yeah. So it sounds like pod chat was something that came in and went. So how did you know? Yes. Time to do something else. Like, how would you Yeah. That's one of those questions I always get, like, how do you know when it's time to, you know, throw in the microphone on something? For me, it was lack of enjoyment, I think. I mean, I love the pod shop show. That was fun. It was it was like a sort of interview show bringing podcasters on talking about topics, specific topics in the industry. So, we we speak about diversity. You know? I had Alsiaz Gebaran from Lipson talking about diversity in podcast. And it was a great episode. So I really enjoyed the topics. But the enjoyment and putting it together and whether I was still enjoying it or whether I I felt I was now starting to run out of ideas and just post the episode or mail it and etcetera. I never want to get to that stage when I'm just mailing it in.

24:04 So I just I sunset it and continued like, my main one that's been going for the longest now is the the 1 minute podcast tips one because that's simple. As the show title suggests, it's really short episodes, really easy to put together. So it's just it's mainly for enjoyment, mate, whether I still enjoy doing it or not. Yeah. Do you find it harder to do a shorter show? I don't. I think the hardest thing is maybe try and eat get topics to discuss. And I do a lot of what you do where you're on Reddit, and you'll find questions, you know, for for the show, for your own show, etcetera. So I'll try to look at Reddit or questions that have come into Captivate Support maybe, and do an episode around that. So that's that's the hardest thing I find for the really short one. Yeah. We got another question from the chat room. This is from Rich Graham.

24:51 Rich Graham, by the way, thank you for the radar suggestion. Radars is tool if you want to have all your social media under kind of one umbrella. I saw that in the chat room. So thanks for that, Rich. But he says, do you guys have any podcasting newsletter hosting recommendations? And so for me, it's weird. I use substack just because I like to play with stuff and they do a lot of cross promotion to where I see more growth on that platform. But they're in a way, they're not like a they're not supposed to be a marketing kind of newsletter supposed to be. I don't know if you're supposed to sit back and pontificate about whatever it is your topic is, but I still throw in a couple of calls to action. I just started. I like MailerLite. If you're on a budget, all these have free stuff.

25:39 And then I just started playing with ConvertKit again. I actually went in because I had gone through I moved everybody from ConvertKit. That's what I used to use to Substack. And then I started a new podcast, and I was like, well, I want to set it up so that when an episode goes out, it automatically sends out an email. And I was like, oh, you can do that in ConvertKit. And I was like, alright. So I basically wipe my ConvertKit clean because I was at the point where I had to pay for it. Then I was like, alright, I'm back to no no subscribers. And I put up a form like that. But do you have any, any particular favorites? I'm from similar to you. I use Substack. I don't really use it for the podcast as such. I find it a bit limited from a podcasting point of view.

26:19 Only because the I find the OMBED supports limited. You can only really drop YouTube, Apple, or Spotify in there, which kinda limits it a little bit. But I love the like you said, I love the network and the community. I get a lot of new subscribers from recommendations from your newsletter, for example, Dave. And from Tony Do, who does the into the pod version of this last. So Yeah. I think the recommendation engine is really good. I do like Aweber from the point of view that I've not used it for a while, but they used to have and they probably still do that like a smart content option. So basically, it's a box you can drag across into your template. And that allows you to drop an RSS feed in there. And then, when you publish an episode, the smart content box will update with that. You can choose to embed it in your newsletter.

27:01 And then any newsletter providers that support media playback, you can watch it or listen to it directly, you know, from your email inbox. That's a nice little feature for podcasters. Yeah. Aweber is well, any for me, anytime you're thinking of switching to a different service, and usually it's for money reasons or whatever, But make sure whatever bright, shiny thing that the other newsletter has, make sure you're gonna use it. Because I have moved I remember I moved from Aweber, which I'd had forever. And then I think I heard about ConvertKit on Pat Flynn show, and it just sounded so just darn sexy. I'm like, oh, I gotta go over there. And I made the world's worst mistake. I doubt because they would they would download your file as a zip file. So I had a bunch of different lists. I'm uploading them into to ConvertKit and everything was fine. And I downloaded my biggest list and then deleted my account. And they're like, hey, like when you delete your account, we're wiping off everything. And I was like, no, I know, because I'd already uploaded all my old list. I just I had this last big one that I just downloaded. And I was like, no, well, I'm leaving here. I will see you later.

28:11 And the downloaded corrupted on the way down and I lost my biggest list. And I was like, so if you move, don't close the door on the old one until you see your email list in the new one. I was like, oh, I mean, it was like probably 12,000 people. I was like, oh, man. Yeah. It hurt. It was I'd been working on that thing, and I went back and I'm like, hey. And they're like, yeah. Remember that pop up that says we're going to delete this? And I'm like, there's no backup of a backup of and they're like, nope. That's kind of why that message is there, buddy. And I was like I know how to read the pop ups. Yeah. Jeff c says, I really love and recommend the feature they have on ConvertKit. Now, you can actually make money by recommending other newsletters. Here's something I did. I didn't know because I don't know about you, but like the actual search engine, Google, I'm finding less and less useful because the first 60 to 70 percent of it is ads. And that's if they don't throw some sort of AI junk at the top of it. And a friend of mine said, Oh, I switched to Bing years ago. And he goes, I'm not going to retire on it, but they actually pay you to use Bing. They give you points and then you can cash in your points for an Amazon card. And I was like, I did not know that. So I've been using Bing and So that's your Bing. Well, it's funny because it actually looks like a search engine. Like, you type in stuff and it gives you links to websites. And I was like, yes, this is what I used to do because Google, it just

29:43 seems like every day it's so bad. Know as well. Like, Chrome's really bloated. And, so, yeah, I will check that out. The the thing that put me off of a little bit about, Bing was and I may be thinking in the wrong one. I may be thinking the Edge, actually. That's Browser. Yeah. I was thinking there's one of them that uses a lot of AI stuff. I think it's Edge, maybe. But I'll check out Bing, because I'm tired I was like, you know, so tired of all the ads and the CRUD all above the fold on Google results now. Yeah. And the people also asked, Mike, can I just get my own results that, you know, I kind of because that's how Google won the search wars, man, back in the days of AltaVista in that they got you quick results and they were good? And now it's like, I can't find the results. And what I'm looking at is horrible. And it's like, so it's right now, I was trying to find a subject of doctors who are so men of science who also happen to be somewhat religious.

30:41 And I just I'm coming up with a whole lot. And I mean, I found some stuff, but it took a while. And I was like, this is not how it used to be. So, Danny, are you much of an AppSumo guy? I'm I've used it. I've got final off, I I bought, I think, a tool called Optimly from AppSumo, which is a really cool, like, marketing tool that you can use for newsletters, podcasts, etcetera. I've used it in the past. I haven't used it a lot, to be honest. But, yeah, I know of Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know of AppSumo. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because Doctor says, AppSumo days. So it was kind of like their, I don't know, Black Friday or whatever, you know, whatever insert that just ended. Did you pick up any because I have an AppSumo addiction. And the thing she said, I got PressRanger and BigVU.

31:23 I think I got BigVU a while ago, which is a video editor. The thing that is kind of and I say this phrase a lot and honest, I swear it's true, but I'm not anti AI. But it just seems like everybody is leading with that. Like, here, it's this and this with a it's an AI tool that does this. And it's in the end, everything's looking like everything else. Like, okay, but what's, you know, I'm like, so every time I look at when I go over there, there's just nothing really, you know, that strikes my fancy. It's like, oh, it's gonna do this and transcribe and give you I'm like, yeah, I already got 10 of those. And, you know, I only use maybe 1, if any. So it's just it is what it is. But I actually speaking of AppSumo, if you go to your podcast website.com, I just did an episode on how things you should do before buying things on AppSumo because I haven't been burned a lot. That's the one thing I really like about it is the the fact that you do have a 30 day. I think it might even be 60 day. I think so. Yeah. So if you'd buy something that's I know I bought something, and I thought it did this. And within 10 minutes of using it, I was like, oh, this is not what I thought it was. And so I was like, ick. So and I just went and said, hey, you guys have the like, yep. And they're like, yeah, well, and it was it took them like, you know, the better part of a week to get it back to me. But in the end, I didn't have to pay for it. So Which is not Temu?

32:50 Yeah. Temu. Yeah. That's well, what's interesting about that is I've I bought a pair of shoes. Like, I wouldn't buy shoes anywhere. I have to put them on my feet before I buy them. But I bought a pair of shoes and it was, they were not great, but it was like, well, it was, you know, $5, something like that. I was like, well, but I'm like, you know, lighting $5 here, lighting another $5 on fire after a while. And I've always heard that if you're buying any electronics from that particular website, like buyer beware, it's, it's not great. But I do want to say thanks to Ralph from Ask Ralph. He's making it rain over here. Thank you for the super chat. And I hit the wrong button.

33:30 I hit the subscribe button. I want to make it rain like this. There we go. Thank you, Ralph. I appreciate that, buddy. So let me, head on. Tell you what. Let's. How are we doing on time? We're doing it's 11 o'clock. Let's do good. Let's get this out of the way. I want to say thank you to all of our awesome supporters. And Danny, that's right. You're gonna be here for the wheel of names. So that's great fun. Yeah. So the show is brought to you by the school of podcasting, where I offer step by step coaches, step by step coaches. Well, see if this was a real podcast, I would edit that out and do it again. But step by step, courses and of course, unlimited coaching and a really awesome community. If you want to check it out, use the coupon code coach. And speaking of, money back guarantees, that comes with a 30 day money back guarantee. And also, this particular podcast runs on PodPage. If you want to try PodPage, it's super simple. That's my affiliate link. Go to try podpage.com. Or if you want to learn pod page, go to learn pod page.com. That's a free course. And right now we are running on Ecamm. If you want to check that out, you have to be on a Mac to use that. Just go to ask the podcast coach.com/ecamm, and ecamm is spelled with 2 m's because, it's that good. And, Jim is out on special assignment, this week. He'll be talking about that next week. But, if you like, Jim Collison would just go over the average guy dot tv. And of course, if you want to check out more Danny Brown, just go to Danny Pod. Yeah. Dannypod.com. That's an easy one to remember. And, yes, it's time to find our featured

35:02 supporter of the week. So, Danny, we go over to the will of names. And so these are people that have, on my Patreon have, provided $20 of support, and we really appreciate that. So who will it be? Will it be, will they go 2 in a row, the ladies from Keep the Flame Alive, or will it be AI Goes TO College, or will it be Ask Ralph podcast? We'll find out as we spin the wheel of names. And this week's awesome supporter is, it was almost Ralph. It is Shane Whaley from Radio GDR. If you're into I was free. This is where I'm a stupid American, and I don't know anything when it comes to especially countries.

35:43 GDR is either East or West Germany, and it was the one that used to be like Nazis. So it's all about exploring that side of Germany. And I'm like, yeah, it's so if you're into German and Germany and culture and that whole 9 yards, Shane does an awesome job. And I'll put a link to that out in the show notes. But Shane, thank you so much. Shane, of course, from Tourpreneur. He's a seasoned podcast veteran. But thanks for your support. We do appreciate that. And if you if I get my mouse to work or my my seriously, there we go. If this podcast has saved you time, saved you money, saved you headaches, well, then, and it's helped you, you know, stay educated, then you too can be an awesome supporter by going to ask the podcast coach.com/awesome.

36:35 And I did see one I wanted to bring up. I felt bad when I saw this. I was like, but it's just not the time, at least for me. I'd love to hear what your thoughts are. This guy said, look, I'm working 2 jobs and I want to start a podcast. And then he said, hi, all. I'm in not just debt. I'm in crushing debt right now due to some special circumstances. That stinks. I'm working 12 hours a day, 7 days a week. That makes me tired just thinking about that. He says just as great buy. I have a great podcast idea and I want to start, recording. I have a computer. I have a decent mic. What software would you recommend and why? I don't have a lot of time for editing and obviously my funds are nearly non existent. Thanks for your time. And so I politely told the guy, go look, there's a difference between being poor and broke. And as someone who went through bankruptcy, I understand being broke. And I just said, I wouldn't do it at this time. I'm like, it's, you know, if you're really, you know, trying to make money quickly, I don't know if podcasting is the way to go. I know Captivate has you guys just added the feature. You like, you can have your own Patreon kind of now with Captivate, which is kind of cool. Have you seen a lot of people, you know, using that feature? We have. Yeah. We we obviously, we saw the stuff in the back end and it's been picked up really well.

37:59 And some and people were using it really smart. Like, they're like doing free trials and, you know, the tie it to Apple subscriptions through delegated, delivered, and all that cool stuff. So you can send out to multiple policies. So, yeah, that's been good to watch that been picked up and how people are are using it. I use it myself. It's like super easy to use. Yeah, but I just, if somebody says, how long does it take to make money with a podcast? Do you have a standard answer? I don't because I think it oh, I hate saying it depends. But I think in this case, it depends. Because you can get you can make money out of the gate. You can have, like, a solid plan of a podcast that's very niche and hyperlocal. And you can talk to local businesses right from the start and say, hey, these are my target audience. It's gonna be we have a podcaster, Bob Williams over in Sarasota. And he does a podcast very much geared towards the the Sarasota community. So that's ultra niche, ultra local. And so he can monetize right away with local sponsors.

38:56 Doesn't have to worry about ads. Doesn't have to worry about getting a 100,000 downloads or 20, 30, 40, 50,000 downloads per episode because he's got that hyperlocal sponsorship. So you can make it right out the game. People can just donate. They can, like, like Ralph just did now for $25 who can support a show out the gate for no other reason that they enjoy the content. I think if you're looking for ads, then, yeah, that's a long term game because you do need, sadly, the downloads and the audience for advertising. So you do need it then. So I think I'm sorry. I'm just going with the generic. It depends. Yeah. Well, the nice thing you mentioned the dynamic, show notes. You could have a local sponsor and when their ad runs in your show, their, you know, information will be in the show notes. And then if they bought, you know, 3 months worth of sponsorship and their sponsorship ends, you just swap out the ad and the new person is then shown in your show notes. So that's actually, the dynamic show notes is a really cool thing.

39:55 Yeah. Randy says crushing debt and 2 jobs and hoping to make money. Just don't do a podcast. I said, yeah, I I it's not never do a podcast. I just wouldn't do it now. Not right now. Yeah. Because especially when you're in that situation and you're really just, counting every penny that if you have a family, and we don't know in this case, but if you have a family, they're stressed out too. And now would be the time to hang out with the family and I don't know, go to the library, do something for free and be better use of your time. So Well, I think as well, you he he alluded what he can do, and he said that he doesn't really have time to edit. So to me as well, that's gonna be not a red flag because you don't have to edit. I always recommend editing just to tighten your show up. I know some podcasters don't, and it still sound great. So you don't have to. But if he's trying to make money from the podcast to try get out of debt, and he's not editing, then the quality is probably not gonna be quite there, which might put people off. So if you're putting people off from the quality of the content, you're gonna struggle a bit to make money from it. So it's it seems like there's a lot going against them to launch a podcast at the minute. Yeah. It's just it's like you said, it's just not now, but, you know, not so much never do a podcast, but this may not be the time to do that. Plus, the other thing I find at least is if somebody's really, wanting to make money and they're on episode 4, you know, and it's it sounds like they're on episode 4, you know, they're kind of not very confident behind the mic and etcetera, etcetera. Well, that just adds

41:29 more pressure because also, you're not very efficient at it, maybe, right? You're going through all the learning curves, so things are taking longer than you want and things of that nature. And so the added pressure of, you know, I'm trying to make money and I'm not that can just take your attitude and throw it right out the window. So, I know earlier we were talking about video. I should have brought this up then, but you had a post that you said, don't be the podcaster. When I read this, I'm like, oh, is that me? Don't be the podcaster who pooh poohs one format over the other. If you prefer audio, awesome. If you prefer video, that's just as sweet. But, we're all creators. We should be supporting each other, not putting each other down. That's enough people that will do wait. Oh, there's enough people that will do that with without us helping them. So can you give us example of that? Yeah. I mean, you see it. Like, when someone's I mean, I'm not an OG podcaster. I didn't start in 2,000, 2,001, 2002. And often you'll see some people some podcasters will say, well, if it's not got an RSS feed, it's not a podcast. If it's on YouTube, it's not a podcast. If it's x y zed, it's not a podcast. And you'll you'll see newer podcasters do just to say, well, what do you know? Blah blah blah. You your everyday, you know, all that kind of stuff. And I feel that there's so much opportunity out there anyway, regardless whether you do audio podcast. We'll get regardless whether you do YouTube. You're not in competition with each other. You might have the same show, the same topics, the same

43:00 niche, but you're not really in competition because there's always gonna be an audience. Right? There's let's fragment sake, there's 4,000,000 podcast. But there's only about 500 active 500,000, 500 active podcasts would be great. All the monies, all the listeners. There's a little bit of 500,000 active podcasts. So the the audience that you've gone up against is very small. And I feel that there's people that that think you're a nerd for pod being a podcaster. There's people that think you're an idiot. You're immature for still doing podcast when you're in your forties and fifties and upwards, etcetera. I feel that as creators, we know what it takes to create something and all the work that goes into it. And all the times you have to stay up late at night or give up weekends to edit, to record, to research and that. Why do we put people down because they choose to do a different format? And why is their format wrong compared to yours? So that's really where it came from. I think I may have heard, some people discuss it on our podcast episode. And it just stuck in my head. I thought, come on. This is like 2024. We're still going through this. It's like the video game and the Star Wars fandoms. It's like I'm an OG Star Wars fan from back in 78 when it first came in at the cinema. Yeah. But I don't care if you like the new stuff and you prefer the old stuff or whatever it's. Enjoy what you enjoy and let everybody else enjoy what they enjoy. Yeah.

44:14 Yep. I've just now I basically just explained where everything is. I try not to poo poo it. I'm like, okay. A video spot a video podcast on Spotify only goes to Spotify. A video podcast and I really want to put up quotation marks, but I won't. A video podcast on YouTube only goes to YouTube and YouTube music. And then if you have a video podcast on a host, well, that goes to about 15 different apps. So but, yeah, you brought up the, you know, however many active podcasts we have. I actually saw this from, Rob Walsh, his ex account. And, he somebody some business or whatever has this big giant banner, and it says we do this not because it's easy, but because we thought it would be easy. And I was like, you know, that's a lot of us because he said of the 2,600,000 podcast. So this might be an old tweet because we haven't had 2,600,000 podcasts in a while. But he just said over 390,000 have released a new episode in the last 90 days. And of those have 10 or more episodes. So he goes, they're really only 1,100,000 that have never made it past 5 episodes.

45:17 Do you guys I don't know if you ever look at that. Is that a stat that you see over Captivate as well? For people just boo out before they get to, you know, 10? We don't really, like, look at I mean, obviously, we'll look at the analytics in the back end and stuff. But we don't really look at the the because I I feel with with Captivate, we go after a very serious, a very specific type of podcaster. Mark, the the the co founder and CEO of Captivate, he's always saying that for Captivate, we only want to work with serious podcasters. And and serious can be, you know, what what you define as serious. Is it serious about growing your podcast, marketing, editing, record? Whatever you class as being a serious podcaster. So that's why we don't have a free plan, for example, because we feel we have a free plan. Nothing wrong with free podcasting. But you might not be quite as invested as if you're paying a podcast host, whatever their their plans are. So we have a very specific audience. So we tend to find because of that, they're more invested in trying to make it work and using the tools and the resources and educational stuff like like you've got Dave, to grow and to be better and become better. So we don't find as much pod feed maybe. But, yeah, we had an episode of the, then and around podcasting show that I I co host with Mark, and you've been on that. We had an episode talking about, the start that came out. And it might have been Robert. It might have been Kevin over at Buzzsprout possibly. Someone posted that the the average, episode land or the episodes now before someone quits is 7 episodes. It used to be 6 or used to be 5. Yeah. It's now 7.

46:45 So it's going up. So that's good. But we looked at why that happens. And a lot of it goes back to one of the things that we mentioned earlier. You're on about planning ahead. And that question, it got asked and read about, okay, I've done this. Now what? Well, you have to have an answer to that. Now what to get past that pod feed because otherwise, you're just gonna stop. So we don't really look at that information, but I guess we could probably look at it. Yeah. It's one of those things that, you know, some people just get into it for fun. And like you said, I always hear Mark say that we're for the serious podcaster and, I like that idea. I think I wasn't disheartened. I set up a new service called podcast hot seat and sent out to the newsletter, things like that. And I was like, this could really just do nothing because I'm not positive. People want feedback on their show. They say they want to grow their show. And I was like, I even had an episode where I explained 2 times where I just missed stuff on my own show that I just didn't see it because it's my show and I'm too close. And, so I opened up the doors, sent out a couple emails, promoted on a bunch of shows and got a whole lot of nothing. And I was like, well, alright. So I finally I was ecstatic. Last night, I had somebody sign up. But I was like, this might just be a case where a nobody knows what it was because there wasn't, you know, there's nobody to look at.

48:03 It's like I remember the very first season. This is going back of The Real World on MTV. That first season was the best season because they had no idea what they were getting into. The 2nd season, everybody knew, oh, I'm going to get filmed and I have to watch what I say and this and that. So the fact I think that there wasn't one to look at and go, but what what is this guy going to do with my podcast when I give it to him? So I was Stephanie Graham, is who signed up last night. So I thought that was cool. So, yeah, coach Dave says barriers to entry are low and change is never ending. Yeah, that is true. With podcasting, I mean, we're talking about different technology today and Spotify. It's always, you know, trying to keep up with what's going on.

48:45 And then Matthew Passi says, podcasts, don't need gatekeepers. It's, supported to be open to everyone in any format. Yeah. Absolutely. And then, to the guy that, had the 2 jobs, SP says, if you don't have time to promote, and market your show, that's it. Anytime somebody says, I had somebody, at the school podcasting this week, and they were going to start a second show. And I go, okay, first things first. If can you put the content you're doing in your 2nd show in your first show, does it fit? And they're like, not really. Because we have a show. It's about 10 minutes and this is going to be interviews and they're going to be long form. I'm like, okay. So just keep in mind, Ariel, listen, I was because she always says in Twitter, it's like this. Listen, but? Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Right? Yes. Yeah. But, she was on, you guys did the, one of the my favorite segments of your show is stupid things in podcasting. And I actually asked Mark, I go, can I play the last episode had a montage of stupid things in podcasting? I said, can I play that my show? Because my next show is about, sharing your attitude and your opinions. And one of them because I looked into YouTube and one of the formats that I just do not understand. And I was like, why is this popular? Are reaction videos. Yeah.

50:08 Why do I need to watch you react to this music? How about I'll just go to Spotify and play that song and I'll react to it myself? I don't really need your reaction. And so a friend of mine kind of gave me a different slant on it. And I was like, okay. And so one of the things when I heard this from stupid things in, like everything everybody said, I agreed with. So I had my I think that's what reaction videos are. But Ariel said something about when you start a YouTube channel and you start this and you start that, it's funny, she goes, because you're using YouTube to market the audio version. She goes, but then you forget you have to market the YouTube so it will then market like every time you add something new, how are you going to make YouTube grow? Because the YouTube thing is supposed to be the thing that makes the audio grow. And I thought that was great. Just a way of that. So you'll be hearing, well, I guess you won't be hearing you. You'll be hearing about you and Mark in that show, on that. Do you want That was a good collection. I enjoyed that right now. Yeah. Everyone that came up was like, yes.

51:14 And then looks like, yes. So that's what reaction videos do. They make you go, yeah, this is why I listen to this show. I had one time trying to remember what I ranted about. Oh, oh, people saying that it's, it's too hard. And we'll talk about this in a second about downloads. But they were saying it's too hard for buyers to to, you know, the people that are selling ads, it's too hard to sell to the buyers and blah, blah, blah. And I did this what I call a power rant. I'm like, do your job. I go when we went from newspaper to fax machines and there used to be ads on faxes. And when we went to email and all these other places, we switched to doing technology. You had to learn how to sell to that. And I'm always confused because on one hand, I will hear that podcasts are like one of the top, if not the top form of advertising. Like it outperforms everything. And I'm like, okay, if that's true, how in the world is it hard to sell advertising on a podcast? Because that's right there. Hey, Mr. Businessperson, do you advertise on radio? Yeah, we do a little. What about newspapers? Yeah, we used to. Okay, well, guess what? This outperforms all it like. How is it hard? And so I did this giant rant and somebody I saw them and it must have been right before I went to Podfest or something. And I saw somebody in the hall and they're like, dude, I loved your episode. And I go, really? I was kind of it wasn't my typical thing. They're like, and they said, no, it's that you're that's the reason why

52:46 I follow you. I want a guy with that kind of passion Yeah. Oh, here we go. We have somebody, daily sports history. I work 2 jobs and not a lot of time, but, but I started the podcast to have something I enjoy working on every day. That's the other thing I think I put on Reddit. I said, now if you need something to mentally get away from the fact that you're up to your armpits in debt, I go, a podcast is a great for me. Sometimes I call the best $7 therapy there is, you know, sign up somewhere and and do that. So it's, it can actually be something that you do to escape the world. That's awesome. Yeah. Matthew says, if you love daily sports history, then, you know, keep going and people will find it. I saw people fail when it was a chore versus a passion. Yeah. If you don't like doing the show. Well, exactly what Danny said earlier. When did he stop? When he didn't enjoy doing it anymore. He was like, okay, I don't like doing this. I'm not going to do it. So it's pretty easy that way. Alright, let's move on. Do you have, do you love when people obsess over things that they don't need to obsess over?

54:01 Isn't that always fun? I understand it. I I do. I used to make my first live podcast and I'd be in my analytics every day, every hour, refresh, and then crying. So I know I get it. But I don't I also feel that life's too short. I feel that as you get older, you know, you start to realize that more. So those things that are a bit more meaningful than refreshing your download screen. Again and again. Yeah. I saw this one and I just thought, but, a person says I ran a podcast for several years on Shout Engine. Nearly 200 episodes were recorded. And this again is another free media host that went out of business. Ben lost them, when the service site stopped. Finding out later, there were no backups. He said I was really distraught, but eventually made a new podcast on Spotify. So he went from one free media host to another.

54:50 But as of this week, he says, I was given a miracle by a fellow Redditor who managed. He basically pointed him to the way back machine and, was able to get his old download. So his question was, I could just meticulously insert them into my existing podcast, hiding them as lost episodes, but I think that would clutter up the current content too much. I was also can see and that's the one thing I need to see here, my existing podcast. So I guess I'm guessing this is a new podcast. Maybe that's it. I thought it was the same podcast. I thought he just moved and kept going. But, he said, I'm just looking for advice on how I should go doing this. Incidentally, I would also like advice on the best way to keep backups on these episodes so this never happens again. They're sitting on an external hard drive right now, but I feel better if they're uploaded somewhere for prosperity. So I was thinking he had just kept the show going like, okay, shout engine shut down a show. He started up the same episode and now he's kind of like, how do I put in the back episodes? That may not be the case. Not that I read this for the 3rd time, because if it's the same show, you can upload stuff and backdate it. And Yeah, exactly. Just getting your episode edited screen, you put the data as January 2, 2019. Yeah. That's the plan. So if that's the case, that's one where I was like, I think you're over overthinking this a bit. That I go, what am I gonna do with these?

56:10 And because most apps, I don't know that there are any more set up to download all. I I think that might be a button in some apps that you can click, which we love those. You get a giant spike if you've got hundreds of downloads, but I don't think most of them, if you upload them and backdate them, I don't think they'll download them. They're usually looking for the latest one, not the the very first one. So that would be that. But, as for a hard drive or for backing up, this is where I have. I always keep a copy on my hard drive. So that's one. And I know like Hindenburg has a feature that you can directly publish to certain host. I think captivates in that list. Yeah. And then but my always worry about that is then you don't have a local copy. Now granted you have a copy in the cloud on whoever your host is, but the a true backup is when you have one somewhere off-site. Because I know some people like, well, I've got it on my hard drive, but I also have a second copy on an external hard drive and I'm like, and when your apartment catches on fire, you lose 2 copies of your files. So you need to have one somewhere off-site. Do you have any kind of where do you back up your stuff? Yeah. So I'm similar to you. I'll have the external hard drive and it's portable so I can pick it up. I mean, obviously, I'm not gonna be rushing around trying to find my portable hard drive when there's a fire in the house. That's it goes back to that thing about, okay, what's important in life? Are you gonna be checking your downloads or getting out of the house that's on fire? Well, give me a minute. We've got a new listener. But yeah. I've got a portable hard drive. I also use Icloud and Google

57:41 Drive to just give a couple of options. In case to your point, does one go away? Does one corrupt? Does one crash? Hopefully, I've still got elsewhere that I can get. And then, obviously, you've got your media host whoever you're hosting with, as long as they are around. Yeah. Absolutely. And then, Ray, over at Around the Layout podcast. If you're into model trains, that's a really cool show. He goes overthinking it like me with my new outro. Yeah. It's, you know, throw it on the wall. It usually isn't that, Larry says if my apartment catches on fire, my podcast is the last thing in my. Yeah. I might grab a photo album. That is something I don't know about you. I have lots of photo albums and about, I don't know, 4 or 5 times a year I go, you know, I need to scan all those and digitize them. And, yeah, still not happening, because that would be if those are gone, there's no backups of those anywhere.

58:33 So that would be something. But on the other hand, if my life's at stake, you know what? Sorry. And I don't need pictures of me from the 6th grade or what or whatever. Yeah. But you do need I know for me, I have my online backup because I'm there's tons of these places. There's Dropbox and things like that. But there's a service called Backblaze and they have, which I use for backing up just my hard drive in general, but then they have a second kind of service and it's made for exactly what I want. Like, I really don't plan on ever touching these files again, but I want them someplace and it's super cheap, but then they charge you a little more if you download them. And I'm like, well, I plan on never downloading these again. So, but it is when it's part of my my process. Once the file's done and everything's there and show notes and all that, I will go in and you have to FTP it in. So it's not the they might have a web based interface, but I basically fire up Cyber Duck and upload the files. And at that point, we're on to the next episode. So it's it. Coach Dave here is talking about podcasting as a business. He says as a business model can be described as high churn market or low barrier, high competitive industry. It works when it's adjunct to something else, but not as a standalone business. So I could see. Yeah, I would say that at times, podcasting is kind of high churn depending again on and again, it depends, right? Why you're doing it, things like that. Doctor

1:00:04 says, I just digitized all my scrapbooks with my mom, my dad, my grandma, and everyone else. I just took an evening while watching TV and scanned every photo. Yeah. I have. Yeah. I have your typical printer slash scanner slash microwave slash toaster thing in the corner and I could scan quite a few at a time. So, Ralph has another question. He says, I'm looking for someone to improve or create a better intro slash outro video for my video show. I did something in canva, but it looks very amateur. I would point you at castahead.net. Chris Stone is a good video guy, but I also realized that most of the video stuff I watch the, like, think I think it's Think Media because I always think it says Tink and it's Think.

1:00:52 But these are. Yeah. Yeah. These are YouTube guys and their actual intro is their logo and somebody going, just press record. That's it. Like, it's literally like today something going to catch your attention, blah, blah, blah. Just press record. And then they're into the content. And there was a video I watched and the guy called it STV, and he said it stood for seconds to value. And so my now when I do YouTube videos, if I have any intro, it's just my stupid. Well, they're not stupid, but I have my little lady saying the school of podcasting with Dave Jackson, and then I get right to the content. So it's this is where it gets kind of tough when you have, like I'm doing a video podcast, you have to kind of figure out, am I doing video or audio first? And if you're doing video first, like, if you wanted to, like, okay, this is gonna be audio, but I'm doing video. Well, audio podcasts, like Danny on, In and Around Podcast, you guys have this awesome jingle.

1:01:53 And so you need that. It kind of explains what the show's about, who's it for, and then you guys come in and you explain what we're talking about. So you're right to the content, but you have that if you're new to the show part, which we still need in audio, but you don't want that in video. They don't want your jingle and all that. They're like, you have a title there that says how to turn dog poop into gold. They're like, that's what I want to learn about. And you're telling me all about this stuff and who they don't care. And so YouTube really wants it. So that's where if you're using Descript, you might have like, here's everything, including my fun jingle. But when you do the video, cut the jingle out and re export it. And then, you know, do the first one with everything for audio.

1:02:36 Cut out the parts that video people don't want and and go that route. I don't know. What do you what are your thoughts on that? Yeah. And Todd makes a good point there, Todd DeGator, about YouTube trends and what they're looking for and what they seem to be looking for. And that's it. I mean, if you're gonna do video podcasting, which is why we always recommend, you know, myself recommend to the podcasters. You're recommending it. If you wanna do video, you gotta do it properly. You know, you can't just half ass it because YouTube is not a forgiven platform for a half ass attempted content. So you have to do it properly. And I think that, like you say, I I would probably just want to get straight to the content on YouTube. Because I've got on my screen probably doing other stuff. And then if the content really grabs me then I'll stop or pause and watch it but it is playing in the background generally. So I don't want to listen to you know, blotted and on and on etcetera.

1:03:25 Yeah, Todd continues, he says, start with the title and a thumbnail because the thumbnail, from what I understand, is super important as is the title, and then create your show around it. Your concept, your art, the title and the script. It might be a little different for, you know, like a talking head live show or whatever, but sure. And I was surprised. I recently subscribed to mister Beast because I heard so much about him, and his videos are nuts, and they're crazy. What I'm also noticing is he changes his thumbnail a lot. Like I remember 1 there was he had these guys basically took them out in the middle of nowhere in the woods and he gave him $10,000 for every day they they stayed alive.

1:04:08 And so the first one was like him fighting a bear. And then like the next day, it was like a different it was the same video, but he changed the thumbnail. And I'm like, is that a thing now? We have to change. But he's probably testing to see which one works best or whatever. I mean, that guy's always, you know, testing stuff and making these crazy videos. You do something like TubeBuddy, they've got an AB test and option where you can use different titles and I think different thumbnails and they'll revolve it for you. Yeah. So maybe it's doing something like that where it's like you say, seeing what works and leaving that one up to try grabs the attention. Yeah. And if I'm mister beast, I I found this while I was doing a research for one of the episodes on, and then around podcast and his. He I don't know if it's true or not. Maybe it's all about hyperbolic, but he said that his episodes cost $5,000,000 to make. Yeah. Well, the yeah. Well, the thing, there's one video if you go to YouTube and type in like, how much does mr. Beast make? He has this one where this guy's like, hey, if you make the shot, it's a basketball. They're on a court. And it's like he's, you know, he's way out there. It's almost half court.

1:05:14 And this guy makes the shot. And the thing was, if you make the shot, I'll show you what to make on YouTube. And what was funny is he's showing this guy and he's like, okay, this is one of our old channels. We haven't put out a video anywhere. And so I'm only making like 58,000,000 a month. And then this one. But there was one he said when this video was going the best, it was X amount of 1,000,000 per hour. And I was like, my my brain can't wrap around that. So when he's giving away $10,000 a day, that's like, you know, that's in his couch cushions. Yeah. That's pocket change. And when he's been doing philanthropy, like, there's this one video that was really awesome he made. I think it was a 101 wells in Africa, and he's like giving water to like half a 1000000 people. And at the end, he's like, I know it's kind of stupid that a YouTuber had to do this, but if nobody else is going to do it, like, I was like, wow, that's pretty cool. But, yeah, the, Jeff says, I guess I need to find the second half of my for growing my YouTube. Yeah, that's it.

1:06:15 Todd, the gator, a b testing is a big deal with large creators. Yep. It's learning entirely new skill. Yep. And it is. That's, you know, and that kind of goes back to what Danny was saying with, you know, if you're going to do video and you really kind of like when you were talking earlier for the serious podcaster, if you want to be a serious YouTuber, just putting the v you have to kind of really pay attention to what the algorithm wants and, you know, all these other fun things. And that's where I kind of go. It's a lot of work over there. You know, it's great if you got the time, you know, and the budget and things like that. He says the YouTubers I've interviewed are obsessed with YouTube and spend a lot of their effort optimizing. Yeah. I have a member of the school of podcasting that does a thing called shower thoughts, and it's her talking into a shower head. And it's something like, you know, why do we drive in the parkway and drive park in the driveway or whatever? You know, this what was captain's hand? What was captain Hook's name before the accident? Was it captain hand? You know, just those kind of like things. So they're really quick, and she's getting, like, tons of downloads on this, probably because it's called shower thoughts, and everybody's hoping they're gonna be naughty, and they're not. But Looking for the video version. Yeah. And that's what it is. It's her on YouTube. And when I talked to her, she's spending insane amounts of time now to get this. Now that she's got the traffic, she's got to keep it.

1:07:40 And so, yeah. Well, that's the thing. That's you make a good point that I think that sometimes you could fall into that trap as well, where you get some level of success, whatever that looks like. And now you want to keep that bar, pick, obviously raise it. So now you're thinking, okay, what content should I make as opposed to what content you need to make? Right? So what you you sort of get taken away from the content you should be making for your audience. Now you're trying to make content for the traffic and the 2 very different things. Yeah. I've, occasionally I'll hire somebody to kind of check out or usually they're offering me. I can grow your SEO on your website. I'm like, all right, come on over. Look, I'm probably not going to buy anything though. And they're like, that's fine. And there's a I don't even know what the numbers call, but there's a number, you know, there's a score that shows your SEO and they'll be like, wow, you actually you're doing pretty good. Like, what are you using? And I go, I write for people. Like, when I write my show notes, I write for people, and they're like, oh, okay. Because, you know, this then, and you blah blah blah blah blah. And I'm like, yeah. That's I don't really you know, I know I could do all this keyword stuffing and things like that. I just write for people. I'm like, well, it's working. And I'm like, well, yeah. That's again, I'm probably don't really I can always, you know, get information from a coach, but sometimes I'm like, yeah, it's not really, you know, that's the case. But I this is a good time to bring this one up. I saw this on Reddit, except that's not the one I want to show. I want to show this one about no love from YouTube.

1:09:03 He said, YouTube went from giving me hundreds of impressions to my new podcast uploads to almost none. I feel like I made the algorithms mad or something. I usually load the audio version on Spotify because they host my RSS and have YouTube subscribe to the RSS. So this is one of those static video things. He said I uploaded my videos directly to YouTube the other day as an experiment. I uploaded my video to Spotify hoping it would show up on YouTube via RSS instead. YouTube stopped promoting my podcast feed almost completely. So it's a little confusing there when he says when I uploaded the video, I'm like, is that a video or static video? You know, but to me, I forget what podcast I was listening to. And somebody was saying, like, I'm just not getting the traction on YouTube because they were uploading static videos. And I'm like, it's a video platform. And Yeah.

1:09:57 While you're giving them something that's better than nothing, there are other, you know, there's 8 bazillion videos a minute uploaded to YouTube. I'm like, yours might not be the top thing. So kind of going back to what you were saying about, you know, every platform is a little different. And then, Dan says it makes I think his confusion might be I'll start him up. No. Go ahead. Yeah. I was just gonna say, I think maybe his confusion might be it sounds like he's uploading video to Spotify for podcasters because he hosts there. So it's it's been there for a while for him. And he's he's expecting the RSS feed version to include that video, but clearly it's not. It's just the the audio come back to that audio being pulled from the video.

1:10:38 Yeah. Getting stuck up on you with static. So maybe he's expecting Spotify video to go to YouTube as a video and it's not happening. So obviously, his numbers are gonna tank if he's stopping uploading to YouTube as well. Yeah, it's true. And, yeah, Dan was saying it makes sense for full time YouTubers to treat it like a business instead of a hobby. Yeah. Because once it gets going, you know, you can make some decent cash over that. It's still, you know, it's a lot of work, but, it is what it is. And then the other one I thought we could talk about was somebody who's talking about, kind of being stuck. And he said, how do I get out of this creative rut Specifically, if you found yourself having a lack of motivation or maybe you realize that you've been making content that you don't feel passionate about, How do you go about getting back to your roots and enjoying the process of podcasting again? That's a hard one. It is. I had I've been doing my very first podcast I did for 10 years, and I just it was for musicians. I wasn't in the band anymore.

1:11:40 And I kind of said all there is to say about it. And I rebranded it. I thought that was going to be the kick in the pants. So I had a jingle made and I got new artwork, and I'm like, yeah, this is really going to it didn't do anything. I still hated doing the show. But the other thing, if you're having a hard time coming up with content, I always find like I I have RSS readers that go out and read different websites, things like that. But I have found that if I'm not enjoying the content I'm making or if I'm not as, you know, passionate about it, then what's feeding me? Change that. So that's when I'll start listening to audiobooks or something, and I'll be like, oh, this is really cool. I can apply this to that. So I'll change whatever if I'm not liking what I'm putting out within what's feeding me because whatever comes in me goes out of me. And so I don't know. Have you ever been able to pull yourself out of that rut? Because with that show, the one I talked about, I just ended up killing it. I was like, oh, the reason I don't like doing the show is because I don't like doing the show anymore. My my life had changed. But have you ever been able to pull yourself out of that? I don't think I like this show anymore. I haven't.

1:12:50 No, I tend to to just like nix the show. I have sleep like taken on an internal look as to why it's happening and to your point. Is it the stuff that's coming in that I'm talking about? It's the topics I'm researching? Or the guests I'm bringing on? I I'm not feeling that energy with the guests, that kind of stuff. Or I'm being a bad host, you know? So I do a lot of internal, not soul searching, but just inquisition or whatever if you like. And I find that if I've if I can't answer what the issue is, did the format change? Did my love for the topic change? Anything like that? Is it because I'm getting put off by the numbers? Should I be allowing myself to get put off? Whatever that is. But I've basically if if you look, obviously, you you looked at that. You scroll down the, the the the short length I've that's in my bio there. You can see all the podcasts I've archived. And that's because of the this exact thing.

1:13:40 I got into a funk. I was just maybe putting content out for content's sake. Wasn't enjoying it. So I'd rather do something that I really enjoy. And I might not get tens and twenties of thousands of downloads and what have you and 100 of 1,000 of dollars in sponsorship, but I enjoy doing it. And that for me as a podcaster, anyway, that's what makes me sit down, record, and do all the hard work that you do in the back end just to put that 10, 15, 20 minute episode out or hour long or whatever. So it's hard because, like you say, you don't want to tell people to stop doing what they love. But if they're not loving it, then Yeah. Don't do it. Yeah. I'm dying to know. I see where one of your podcasts, and and you can find this at dannypod.com, stories by AI. Yeah. That was just an idea I had where this was when I I think I started out maybe last year, and I probably canceled it last year. But this was when AI was really getting pushed. And every now and again or every week it seemed that you'd got a press release. New innovative AI that does this. That does exactly the same thing that 10 platforms do over here and 20 platforms do over there. But yes. Okay. It's innovative. Awesome. So anyhoo, I just thought it'd be fun to put in use chat g I think I used chat GPT for this. And I I've got a a disclaimer on each episode that tells you what tool I used. Right. And it's basically just write and give them a prompt. Tell me a story about an egg and a fish or something like that.

1:15:06 And all that we do, whatever the story is, I wouldn't add it. I wouldn't change it. I would just read that result. So that would be the story each week as an episode. A story created by AI and here it is. I thought it'd be fun, but I got bored of that really quickly because it wasn't fun. Well, here's my question. Were the stories any good? You know what? Some were. I mean, they were really short. It was I mean, they're not big book lines. So the short maybe each episode was 2, 3 minutes, I'm thinking. And some were fun. Some were really bad, but I just read it anyway. And I think that's what put me off as I can. I can't do this. You know, I love storytelling. I love creators. I love creative outlets. And I couldn't, with all honesty, continue to do that knowing that there's so many better humans giving me, you know, more inspiration. Well, the other thing I saw on your website that you can get to it, it's that the, dennypod.com leads to many it's a lot of doors over there that you can open. And one of them is you have a book called Influence Marketing. How old is that book? That's pretty impressive. That's 11 years old, actually. May 2013 that came out. Is it because it's what's fun is I'm doing the audio version of my book about podcast monetization. It's only 4 years old. And it's interesting because I said at this time, Apple has 478 podcasts in it. And I was like, well, that's 4,000,000 now. Like, so I'm kind of updating as I'm reading the book. Is something like influence marketing, is that a little more evergreen?

1:16:36 And it's funny. When we brought that book out, so I co offered up with a guy called, Sam Fiorella, really good friend of mine, over here in Canada. And we when we wrote this book, there was a lot of, social influence, programs like clout and credit. And I don't you remember these when they were random. We would like just rip into them something fierce. Because, basically, they were just put an influence onto how many followers you had. That was it. That was their business model in a nutshell. And that's not influence. That's just reach. Alright? So we decided to write a proper business book. I really dive in at the weeds when it comes to influence marketing and what you have to do and how the end product the end starting point is the customer. And you work all the way back. You mentioned the Alla Diva works down at the end point and coming back to how you get there. So the book was like, really it's more of like it's like an educational really dry book. It's not like an easy read. And a lot of the reviewers said that they appreciate the fact that it was more technical and it wasn't just like fluff, etcetera. So because of that approach, we see businesses still using the model today and it's taught. There's a few business schools that use it in the curriculum and teach it, you know, as part of the curriculum. That's such it was it was a good book to write and it's fun to see, you know, some people post on LinkedIn now saying what you should do. And that's the stuff that you should have been doing 10 years ago when Clout was still around.

1:17:55 Yeah. I remember Clout with a k. I remember that. Yes. Todd the Gator has a fun question. I'm curious how both of you deal with imposter syndrome. Self doubt creeps in for some of us. It actually creeps in for about 70% of us from what I've seen, creeps in for some of us on occasion. How do you reset? Danny, you wanna go first on this one? That's a really good question. I I think everybody, like you say, 70%, at least I'm gonna say higher maybe. Yeah. We always doubt. If we look at our numbers and think, well, why is so and so over there getting 10 times the the downwards? And they're probably not. They're probably just saying that so they appear to be successful.

1:18:37 But, yeah, you're always gonna ask. It's like buyer, you know, remarks when you buy something, you really wanted to. And then afterwards you're thinking, did I want it? I think it's looking at what you're doing and is the content being appreciated and appreciate comes down in different things. You could just have one person giving you a nice, really nice feedback where they say, I think, Dave, you shared on a newsletter a few weeks back about, a student of the school of podcast and then a success through that they've had and how what you taught them really helped them in their coaching goals. So when you get feedback like that, I think that it's just as long as you're seeing some kind of traction, as long as you're seeing some kind of feedback and you know that the stuff that you're putting out is the best it can be. I think that's all you can do. You're always gonna question yourself. And it's everybody just so I and this is a really bad answer, but just acknowledge everybody else is thinking the same as you. Yeah. And we're all thinking that we're not good enough. And the fact that you're doing it and you're putting content, I mean, you are good enough because there's some people want to do it, but can't do it. And so you're already above that and you're already being beyond being an impostor. And that's I I I'm sorry. It's a horrible one, so it's not definitive. No. My my favorite there's a documentary on Netflix of, Garth Brooks, and he just was given this, like, top male performer, blah, blah, blah, multi platinum thing. This is back when Giuliani was mayor of New York. And he gives him the like the key to the city whole night.

1:20:05 He's going to play Central Park, which is this ginormous field in the middle of New York City. And he's country boy from Nashville or Alabama or wherever he's from. He's like, nobody's gonna wanna listen to country in New York City. It's the big city. And he's just convinced. And he's in his hotel room, and he's got all the windows are covered. He's like, I don't even wanna look out there. And his wife is like, I can't take this anymore because he's just convinced nobody's gonna show up. And so finally, I think it's his road manager. Somebody comes in. He's like, Garth, I just was out there. And And about 20 minutes ago, they had to move the, they had to move some of the barricades. And he's like, because nobody's coming. Right? And he's like, no, Garth. There's there's 800,000 people out there. Wow. And he's like and Garth goes, wait. You're telling me there's 800,000 people out there. And he goes, no, Garth. I'm telling you there are 800,000 people out there 20 minutes ago. And so by the end of it, there was almost a 1000000 people, and it was just a sea of people and he was just convinced Tom Hanks, Meryl Streep, sir Brian May of Queen, Aquafina, who's a rapper, Jason Sudeikis, who's Ted Lasso. All these guys have publicly said, oh, Martin Short said when he was he said he still does this every time he gets a job and, you know, the movie or the TV show is over, he's convinced he will never work again.

1:21:26 And so it's just one of those things again, kind of going back to if you love what you do, I know this sounds like a weird humble brag, but one of the things that really messed up my head is when I got inducted into the Hall of Fame, I got back and got in front of the microphone. I couldn't figure out what to talk about because everything was like, was this Hall of Fame material? Was this? And I really I was like, I can't I can't get this. Like, my head had really changed. And I was like, wait a minute, You got this honor by just being yourself. So just shut up and be yourself and do what you always do. And that's kind of what I do. And I think for me, part of it is, when I was a teacher, I remember I had to teach, I hated teaching Microsoft access. It's this horrible database program, and I didn't use it. Like I used Word and PowerPoint Excel. Those I used every day. I never used Access. So I was very book smart in Access. But if somebody wanted to go outside of the book, I was gonna look really stupid. And I remember going to my boss because I had to teach an advanced access class. I go, I really don't think I'm the guy to teach this class. He's like, well, don't you know the material? I go, I can go right through the material. I go, but if somebody wants to color outside the lines, he goes, realize the people that are coming into the class don't know what's in the book. So you already know more than they do. And he's like, so you're fine. He goes, and if they ask a question to say that's a good question, I'll have to get back to you on that or something like that. So when you're doing stuff and you're doing a

1:22:57 podcast, you just have to know this much more than your audience, and you're good to go. And then there are times when you don't. I call those a journey podcast where you're not the expert, but you're interviewing maybe other people who are and then the audience gets to follow you through your journey. I remember Joanna Penn does a show called the Creative Penn and it's cute because her last name is Penn and I think it's p e n. And when she first started when I interviewed her probably back in like 2007 and she had no clue, like what was going on to be a self published author. And that was the fun part. She'd started this podcast and she was interviewed. Well, now she's the expert. Like, if you go to what events about, you know, being an author, she's now, you know, but it's been 10 years. But, yeah.

1:23:41 So imposter syndrome is just it's something we all deal with. And, you know, I for me, I still do that in person. When I'm at an event, I there are times when I just have to mentally, like, get over there and talk to some people because I'm just like, that's but that's so and I'm just mean, they don't want to talk to me, you know? So it's, so that's how I reset. I went to get back to your question. I just go back and go, well, just be yourself. Talk to your invisible friend across the desk from you. And, you know, do the best you can and realize sometimes your best is better than the last best or something like that. You know, sometimes not every chapter in a book is going to be a home run. So you do the best you can. So but, Danny, I think that's where I think we're going to call it on that. Everybody go to dannypod.com and you can see all the things that he is up to. Holy cow. You are a busy guy. And, again, we talked a lot about Captivate today, so I'm going to spit out my affiliate link support this show.com slash Captivate.

1:24:44 It's and if you want to learn Captivate, now number 1, they have a ton of stuff on their website, but I have Captivate is one of the courses at the school of podcasting because like I said, I like it. So, Danny, anything coming up this week that we should know about as we get ready to wrap up here? No. I mean, I've got a father son soccer game tomorrow, so I might be dead on Monday. And then I'm just planning a I'm just planning a new podcast launch for June 27th. So yeah. Just because I've not got enough podcast. There you go. So you're actually playing with your son though? Yeah. Yeah. So well, no. I'm playing against him. So he plays down in, like, at Barrie's, a city in part in Alberta Way. So he plays on the team there, and the team is playing against the dads for Father's Day. Yeah. That's one of those things that sounds fun until you wake up the next day and you can't move. Yeah. Mate So I'm I'm 55. I'm not gonna I'll I'll last 5 minutes, and that's it. Yeah. I remember in my twenties, we would go to the park on Thanksgiving and play tackle football with no pads or anything. And I go, oh, what? What's and I remember the next day waking up and not being able to to move. So when you use muscles you haven't used in a while, yeah, it'll you know, nothing makes you feel, you know, more old than waking up the next day going, hey. I I can't do stuff I used to do. So that'll be fun. The fitness of a podcaster.

1:26:10 That's it, my friend. On The School of Podcasting, you heard me say, I'm doing an episode about why do reaction videos get reactions? And that kind of the underlying the the tagline is why you need to put your opinion out there, because I realize sometimes we're worried about being canceled or all that other fun stuff. So we'll be talking about that, and you'll hear, a clip from In and Around Podcasting. So when we talked about the stupid stuff on podcasting, that'll be in there. Jim will be back next week, and, thanks to, Mark over at podcastbranding.co and Dan at based on a true story podcast dot com. Thank you to the chat room, and, of course, like, subscribe, and ring the bell, and we'll see you again real soon with another episode of ask the podcast coach.