Why We Go to Space: Curiosity, Innovation, and the Human Spirit with William Harris

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Welcome to Amse Cast.

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Coming to you from Oak Ridge, Tennessee, a global

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leader in science, technology, and innovation.

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My name is Alan Lowe, director of the American Museum

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of Science and Energy, and the K 25 History Center.

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Each episode of Amse Cast presents well renowned authors,

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scientists, historians, policymakers, and everyone in between

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sharing their insights on a variety of fascinating topics.

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Welcome to AMS Z Cast.

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Thanks to a generous grant from the Institute,

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from Museum and Library Services, or IMLS.

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We're continuing our focus on 250 years of

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American innovation and to help us with that.

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I'm so pleased to be joined in this episode by William Harris, the president and

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CEO of Space Center Houston, with the Manned Space Flight Education Foundation.

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William joined that foundation in 2016.

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After many years in nonprofit leadership.

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He really has, uh, an amazing resume that I simply cannot do justice with

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leadership positions at places like the California Science Foundation, where

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I believe he successfully helped obtain the Space shuttle Endeavor, UCLA.

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The Boston School of Medicine really was even a Peace Corps

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volunteer, and I'm leaving out a lot, ladies and gentlemen.

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Today in addition to heading up Space Center Houston, he's also very

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involved in supporting museums around the nation, including, for example,

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serving as past chair of the Association of Science and Technology

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Centers, or A STC, of which the AMZ Foundation is a very proud member.

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William, thanks so much for joining us on amsi Cast.

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Well, thank you for having me.

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I'm delighted to be here.

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It's really good to see you.

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Let's start a little bit, I wanna learn a bit about, uh, space Center Houston,

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and then jump into some questions about innovation as, as you show it there.

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When we come to Space Center Houston, which I hope to do soon,

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what stories do you tell on your exhibits and perhaps what are

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some of the key artifacts you use to help tell those stories?

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Well, first off, space Center Houston is a nonprofit organization,

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but we also serve as official visitor center for NASA Johnson

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Space Center, and that is the NASA Center focused on human

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space exploration and everything associated with that.

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And so our focus really is being the public interface to

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help individuals understand why do we go to space, what

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does it involve and what are the benefits to humanity?

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So we do that through, um, interpreting the

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past, present, and future of space exploration.

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And really our purpose is to bring people in space closer together.

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And then our mission is to reveal how science and humanity, power exploration.

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And so it's really about how.

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We, uh, as humans have these capabilities to do extraordinary things, and

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we're not evolved as a species to go to space yet we have figured out how

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to do that, and we're on the path to becoming an interplanetary species.

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And so it's really demystifying that and helping the public

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understand all the work that has gone into getting to

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this point in time and where we're going into the future.

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You, you have a pretty good gig, William.

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I gotta say that sounds like an amazing mission.

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So, so when we come there, what do we see?

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What are the some of the things we would see at the Space Center Houston?

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Well, I always say to people, you should really plan at least

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half a day, and that sounds like an overwhelming amount of time.

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However, our facility alone is huge again.

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Are really focused on kind of learning goals and experiences, and then

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use the artifacts to help support those as opposed to the other way

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around, which is more the conventional approach of air and space museums.

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And so you will see here everything from the podium, oh this,

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this lecture at which President John F. Kennedy gave his famous

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moonshot speech to flown artifacts from the Mercury Redstone saw

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single astronaut Gini two, and then Apollo 17 command module.

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We had the largest exhibition of lunar samples

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from Apollo 15, 16, and 17, and one you can touch.

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We're an extension of the, of the materials lab from Johnson Space Center.

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We also have amazing things that were used in developing exploration, so the

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actual training module for Sky Lab, which preceded International Space Station.

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We do a whole area that, uh, interprets current research happening in ISS.

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A lot of live interactive programs and then something we're very proud of.

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We just premiered in partnership with Tom Hanks, an immersive

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experience called the Moonwalks, A Journey with Tom Hanks.

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Where we have adapted one of our three theaters with projection mapping

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and upgraded audio to mes you in the experience of the Apollo astronauts.

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And then tying that to the current priority of

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Artemis, the return to the moon and our future area.

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We look at Mars and what it will it take for humans to go to Mars and

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the things we still need to figure out before we go in that direction.

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And then very robust live programming as well.

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So it's very immersive.

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The other part of your visit here is because we are

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the visitor center for NASA Johnson Space Center.

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We can take you behind the scenes and it's

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one of the big reasons people come here.

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You get to look at under the hood of the car, as I like to describe

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it, and understand the inner workings of Johnson Space Center.

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So.

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You can board a tram and we'll take you to the vehicle mock-up facility

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where we train astronauts for the International Space Station, and you never

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know what's going to happen in any particular day that you'll get to see.

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You'll also be able to go to the uh, on some of our tours, the

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International Space Station control room, where we fly the ISS.

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And you see real time astronauts in space doing experiments.

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We also have the historic mission operations control room from the

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Apollo era, and we have, it's a national historic landmark and we have

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actually curated a, a short experience where you relive the Apollo 11

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landing, just the way it happened, all the real audio and experiences.

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And then on some of our tours, we also take you to the

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neutral buoyancy lab, which is the 6 million gallon.

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Pool where we train astronauts for space walks.

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And so often when you go there in the daytime, there are

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astronauts in the pool training for doing space walks.

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So again, you're, you're really understanding all that's involved in humans

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going into these environments that are actually, you know, wanna kill us.

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Yeah, that's right.

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So, amazing experiences at Space Center Houston, I

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know you, you are also very dedicated to, to stem.

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Uh, tell us maybe a few things you offer in terms of STEM education.

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Absolutely.

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When I came here, the, the board really wanted to pivot Space Center Houston

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into a dynamic learning destination from being run more as an attraction.

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And a lot of institutions are run as attractions.

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It's not bad.

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People are looking for things to do and, and we want, and

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you still have fun when you come here, but something I

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recognized and really this spans from my time in California.

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Is that for decades, America has had a real challenge

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with encouraging people to pursue careers in stem.

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And increasingly, we are an information based technology

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based economy, and there are so many opportunities here in

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Texas, for example, 10% of the space economies in the state.

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We have 17 of 20 major aerospace firms and

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they're constantly competing for qualified.

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Employees and you really need a village for space exploration.

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So yes, you need to have your scientists and engineers,

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but you also need to have your food scientists.

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You need to have upholsterers who are making spacesuits and other components.

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You need to have your people in marketing and finance.

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So you need a wide variety of skills.

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But really a lot of them are, they're science oriented.

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They're undergirded by that.

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So something that has become a top priority for

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us is stem learning toward workforce development.

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How do we support individuals at a young age to nurture that?

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Natural inquisition is curiosity we all possess

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and encourage them to pursue this pathway.

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Everybody can do stem.

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It's a really misinformation to say that I'm bad at math.

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It's a question of practice, and then it's also

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a question of embracing adversity and challenge.

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And so that's what has made NASA successful.

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You know, the big adage they use here is we make the impossible possible.

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That is the, the NASA spirit, right?

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And so we try to embody that in everything that we do here.

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Sounds very familiar, William.

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We do the same type of programming here, especially in Oak Ridge.

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This has become, and it's always been, but it's really becoming even

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more so a nuclear hub with around 200 or so companies in this region.

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And this nuclear renaissance.

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And a big question is where's the workforce coming from

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and how can we, as the American Museum of Science and

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Energy help inspire kids to go into STEM related careers?

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So we are right there with you in that regard.

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You had a couple things that really, from our innovation viewpoint,

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when I, when I looked at your materials online, that that spoke to me.

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This Innovation gateway programs, what, what are those?

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So exploration is really about innovation, right?

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It's all about coming up with new ideas and pursuing those and basing

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knowledge on, based on knowledge that we have obtained over time.

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One of our approaches with with STEM learning, and

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this is also to kinda emulate that life is hard.

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There's adversity in life and things are not linear.

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Sometimes they are, but they're often not.

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And so our innovation gateway is a strategy to encourage particularly

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young people to start participating in different kinds of competitions.

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As a way to learn how to work in teams, how to articulate a

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problem, and then a strategy to understand it and address it,

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and then to study it, collect information, so the fundamentals

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of science, right, and come to some conclusions and theories.

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And so we have a whole range of challenges and the, the entry

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level one we're doing right now is actually on carbon capture.

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And any youth can participate in this.

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And we typically do it with school districts.

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And so.

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It's coming up with ideas around how can we address the fact

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that we're releasing too much carbon into our atmosphere and

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it's creating an imbalance and resulting in climate change.

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So that is our, our beginning of the spectrum.

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Then in our innovation gateway portfolio, we also.

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Have, you know, science fairs happen, right?

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But they generally have to be organized in a school or a school district.

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You need to have a teacher who is going to be the

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sponsor and mentor and organizer with the students.

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So we have a number of schools in Houston that don't have that infrastructure.

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So we become a sponsor of those students.

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We help them and mentor them to participate in science fair projects and.

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I'm so excited to say there were three young women

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from a local school who wanted to participate.

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We mentored them.

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They went on to win in their category, and

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they were not part of a club in their school.

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So that, to me is an example of everyone.

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Everything is possible, right?

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They're, they're just different strategies and approaches.

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And then in our innovation gateway, ultimate, if you will, or most difficult

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challenge, is what we call the Conrad Challenge, named after p Conrad.

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Who was a moonwalker and was established by his widow because

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Pete was a really unconventional person and in so many ways,

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you would think he would not have been successful in life.

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He was kicked out of high school and he,

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they, he was not diagnosed with dyslexia.

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He had dyslexia, and that's why he couldn't, he was having a hard time.

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He was a smart young person, but he wasn't able to

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comply with the formal didactic learning system in place.

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His mother wouldn't give up and so she found another school and a great mentor.

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He went on to graduate and go to Princeton and graduated from

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Princeton 'cause he learned how to manage his ability with dyslexia.

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Then loved fast things and so went into the Air Force, became a fighter pilot.

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Qualified to become an an astronaut.

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So here's someone with dyslexia who became an astronaut.

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And so he always was about how he, he could

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overcome obstacles and he supported that in others.

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After his career at nasa, he went on to become a very

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successful entrepreneur and always supported others,

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you know, who didn't have the conventional path in life.

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So that's the spirit of this competition and it's international.

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We encourage, there's high school age students and the, the

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real goal of it is in four categories to come up with an idea,

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a concept, and then something that could be brought to market.

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And so we have thousands of kids apply from around the world.

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We encourage international teams.

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We had a team last year that had two students from Bangladesh

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and with two students from South Korea on the same team.

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We have a thousand volunteer judges.

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You know who are patent attorneys and intellectual

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property specialists and other scientists.

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We select about 200 of the kids to come for a

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week of Shark Tank here at Space Center Houston.

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And they have to display out in the public on the floor.

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We want the public to interact with them.

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They have to pitch their ideas, and then the students get mentored and we

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help them pro bono bring, get intellectual property, uh, legally, or a patent.

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On their product.

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So I'll give you an example.

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One of the students who won last year, one team was from the Czech

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Republic and came up with this concept of a micros sat that could

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go out and reactivate dead satellites and collect, uh, extend the

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life of the satellite and or repurpose them into something else.

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They got a $3 million investment from their, from their concept.

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So these are kids in high school.

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I absolutely love that, and that's really

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what we're trying to encourage here is.

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Understanding that as human beings, we set our own boundaries

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and our own limitations, and we're capable of so much more.

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So what really undergirds all of our programming here is

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to help people understand you are capable of so much more.

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You can push, push out those self-imposed guardrails and

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boundaries and under and really pursue those possibilities.

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Think back to the Apollo era.

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They figured out how to go to the moon using side rails.

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We didn't begin to introduce computers until about 1965, right?

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So all of the work that went the decade beforehand, you know, to

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figure out the million components of the Saturn five rocket, to figure

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out the telemetry, to figure out all of those components and, and.

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Where people had never gone before.

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They figured it out before we had computers.

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It's remarkable.

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Well, that kind of leads to one of my next questions,

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William, is it's maybe a hard one to answer.

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I know it is hard one to answer, but what explains that kinda

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American ability we showed in in NASA and all that, that the

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beginnings of the space age, it lets sets amazing progress.

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That's amazing Innovation.

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Not even using the tools we have available today.

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I think it's something that has resulted from the structure of America,

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the fact that we are essentially a country of migrants, that people

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had to overcome incredible challenges and make incredible sacrifices to

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migrate here, and it's building on something that's in us, and I think

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that we've just, we attract people who are non-conventional, right?

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Who are willing to make these incredible sacrifices.

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Looking for new opportunity or a better

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life for themselves and their descendants.

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And so, and I think that mashup as messy and

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conflictual as it can be leads to that innovation.

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And so that's why I am such a huge advocate of diversity because

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I think when you look at the most productive teams, it's when

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you have people with different perspectives and views and you

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give them space to share those and you seriously consider them.

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And you look at how.

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It gets to that ultimate vision or goal of what you're setting out to do.

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And so, and I think that's evidenced by all the innovation

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that you have seen over the centuries in America.

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To me, that's the pillar of why this country is so extraordinary.

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It, it was almost overwhelming, William to say, uh, we

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were gonna look at 250 years of American innovation.

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Because there's so much, it's, it's, it's, it's amazing what this

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country has contributed and certainly one of those things was the space

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shuttle, which I know you have some experience talking about there.

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And at your previous positions.

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Can you perhaps describe, just in general, how you think

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the Space Shuttle contributed to our understanding of space

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and, and how do you tell that story at Space Center Houston?

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Yeah.

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So we are fortunate to have the shuttle carrier aircraft, the

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7 47 that transported shuttle, and we have the high fidelity.

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Trading module independence.

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And so we incorporate that into this whole development timeline.

302
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Right.

303
00:16:52,650 --> 00:16:55,920
So we begin with, um, just really the, the beginnings

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of exploration or trying to send humans into space.

305
00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:01,440
And then where we've gotten to at this point in

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time is the shuttle's a critical piece of that.

307
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And the shuttle really made pa, uh, possible the audacious idea.

308
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Uh, a million square foot laboratory that's orbiting Earth

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at 17,500 miles an hour, you know, orbits Earth every

310
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90 minutes where we've had humans on this for 25 years.

311
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That is crazy.

312
00:17:24,615 --> 00:17:27,764
Yet it would not have happened without the space shuttle.

313
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We probably could have done it with rockets, right?

314
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The first couple of modules, you know, the, the, the then,

315
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um, you know, the Russian components to go up in rockets.

316
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But the shuttle really made possible.

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The, the construction and also assembly of the International Space Station.

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And it was technology that was really complex

319
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and really dangerous, and it's incredibly tragic.

320
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We lost two vehicles, but the odds were worse.

321
00:17:54,930 --> 00:17:57,630
You know, it actually, statistically, we were gonna

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lose more than two, but it was, but we did it.

323
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We figured it out, you know, with and, uh, and so

324
00:18:03,060 --> 00:18:05,430
we're continuing to innovate and look at creative ways.

325
00:18:06,360 --> 00:18:08,580
Of getting humans off the face of the planet.

326
00:18:08,915 --> 00:18:12,419
The, the shuttle is remarkable 'cause it's a combination of

327
00:18:12,540 --> 00:18:16,740
a rocket ship and a glider, and then just the, you know, even

328
00:18:16,740 --> 00:18:19,980
moving it within our atmosphere glider in the back of a 7 47.

329
00:18:19,980 --> 00:18:22,169
It's the craziest thing you can ever see.

330
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And yet we figured it out.

331
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We figured out how to make that work.

332
00:18:25,950 --> 00:18:30,030
So again, it just underscores, you know, human, human innovation.

333
00:18:30,629 --> 00:18:33,629
I remember the, uh, the first launch of the space shuttle.

334
00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:35,370
I was in high school.

335
00:18:35,850 --> 00:18:36,090
Yes.

336
00:18:36,090 --> 00:18:36,360
Yes.

337
00:18:36,360 --> 00:18:38,760
And we all, uh, it captured our imagination.

338
00:18:38,939 --> 00:18:40,379
Remember gathering around that?

339
00:18:40,379 --> 00:18:41,040
That was great.

340
00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:43,320
Our, our teacher brought in a tv, which, you know, you

341
00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:46,230
didn't have, but, uh, kids today don't understand that, but

342
00:18:46,230 --> 00:18:49,260
you had to have a TV rolled into your classroom, and we all

343
00:18:49,260 --> 00:18:52,740
gathered around and watched that launch and really amazing.

344
00:18:53,159 --> 00:18:56,429
Now we're looking at the development of the Artemis rocket.

345
00:18:56,490 --> 00:18:59,220
What makes it different from the rockets of the past?

346
00:18:59,220 --> 00:19:02,189
How does it, and how does it figure into those next steps in the space?

347
00:19:02,604 --> 00:19:05,635
So Artemis is the name of the overall program like Apollo.

348
00:19:05,635 --> 00:19:07,344
Artemis is the twin sister of Apollo.

349
00:19:07,615 --> 00:19:08,844
And so there are gonna be different

350
00:19:08,844 --> 00:19:12,054
technologies that make that program possible.

351
00:19:12,504 --> 00:19:17,215
And so there is, uh, the architecture is about launching from

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00:19:17,215 --> 00:19:22,195
earth to a space platform that is an orbit around the moon.

353
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That's the gateway.

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Then from there there will be a shuttle that takes

355
00:19:27,075 --> 00:19:29,504
you between the gateway and the lunar surface.

356
00:19:29,805 --> 00:19:33,585
And so the advantage of that is on that vehicle that's orbiting

357
00:19:33,585 --> 00:19:36,345
the moon goes way out in space for than humans ever gone

358
00:19:36,345 --> 00:19:39,795
before and can have experiments happening on it year round.

359
00:19:40,035 --> 00:19:42,465
But it's really more of a bus stop for the crew

360
00:19:42,735 --> 00:19:44,655
'cause they're only gonna spend a few days on it.

361
00:19:44,775 --> 00:19:48,015
It'll only have human habitation for a total of maybe six weeks a year.

362
00:19:48,254 --> 00:19:52,095
So it's a fairly small vehicle, but we can change its orbit.

363
00:19:52,740 --> 00:19:54,900
That way select different locations on the lunar

364
00:19:54,900 --> 00:19:57,930
surface for the crew to land on or depart from.

365
00:19:58,530 --> 00:20:02,220
And the goal of Artemis is for humans to go to the South Pole.

366
00:20:02,550 --> 00:20:05,730
And the whole reason for going back to the moon is to

367
00:20:06,270 --> 00:20:09,840
test and prepare for humans to go ultimately onto Mars.

368
00:20:10,110 --> 00:20:11,580
'cause we still haven't figured out where, how we're

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00:20:11,580 --> 00:20:15,540
gonna get humans to Mars and back safely, you know, alive.

370
00:20:16,230 --> 00:20:18,240
Um, because it's so dangerous.

371
00:20:18,330 --> 00:20:20,760
We do know how to get to the moon and we know how to get to Mars.

372
00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:21,245
I mean, we've had.

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00:20:21,929 --> 00:20:25,919
Many unmanned missions to Mars and collected incredible

374
00:20:25,919 --> 00:20:28,919
data, but there are a lot of factors that make it fatal

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00:20:28,919 --> 00:20:31,710
for humans at this point in time or extremely dangerous.

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00:20:32,235 --> 00:20:35,145
So we're looking, um, as part of the Artemis program to actually

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00:20:35,145 --> 00:20:38,685
create a, a habitat where humans will live up to two months on

378
00:20:38,685 --> 00:20:42,825
the South Pole, and we know that there are millions of gallons

379
00:20:42,825 --> 00:20:46,725
of frozen water in craters because the sun never hits that space.

380
00:20:46,905 --> 00:20:50,504
We now know too, that there's water throughout our solar system in the universe.

381
00:20:51,105 --> 00:20:52,995
You know, it's not exclusively on earth,

382
00:20:53,264 --> 00:20:54,975
you know, they're moons of other planets.

383
00:20:55,575 --> 00:20:59,355
Of salt water oceans with more volume of water than Earth does.

384
00:20:59,475 --> 00:21:01,425
We now know that from deep space, from

385
00:21:01,425 --> 00:21:03,015
probes that have gone out in the universe.

386
00:21:03,135 --> 00:21:07,515
And so the, the goal is to see, and the most recent missions that you've

387
00:21:07,515 --> 00:21:11,175
seen on the news by a company called Intuitive Machines and another

388
00:21:11,175 --> 00:21:15,435
called Firefly, they're trying to understand is that frozen water potable?

389
00:21:15,435 --> 00:21:16,215
Can we drink it?

390
00:21:16,585 --> 00:21:19,825
If we melt the ice, can we break it into liquid hydrogen

391
00:21:19,825 --> 00:21:22,315
and oxygen, which will become fuel when we rec collide them?

392
00:21:22,405 --> 00:21:23,545
Can we grow food?

393
00:21:23,545 --> 00:21:25,435
Because we can't take everything with us.

394
00:21:25,525 --> 00:21:29,155
We're gonna have to use natural resources, local resources,

395
00:21:29,215 --> 00:21:31,705
if we're gonna have long term, we're looking at things in

396
00:21:31,705 --> 00:21:34,645
the South Pole, like, you know, there are lava tubes, right?

397
00:21:34,645 --> 00:21:36,865
Because at one time the moon was molten.

398
00:21:37,315 --> 00:21:40,015
So if you've ever been to the big island in Hawaii, you know,

399
00:21:40,015 --> 00:21:42,295
and you walk through lava tubes, well those exist in the moon.

400
00:21:42,475 --> 00:21:43,885
Would we'd live in the tubes.

401
00:21:43,965 --> 00:21:47,385
Because that would protect us from radiation and direct

402
00:21:47,385 --> 00:21:50,475
exposure from the sun because there's no atmosphere in the moon.

403
00:21:50,475 --> 00:21:55,544
So all those U-V-A-U-V-B rays that make you tan on earth

404
00:21:55,544 --> 00:21:59,445
would fry you over time on the surface of the moon.

405
00:21:59,625 --> 00:22:03,554
And there are companies that have contracts to test 3D printing, right?

406
00:22:03,554 --> 00:22:06,794
Taking regolith and using it to basically build, if

407
00:22:06,794 --> 00:22:08,865
you will, like think of an igloo or some structure.

408
00:22:09,735 --> 00:22:11,925
That becomes a protective habitat for humans.

409
00:22:11,955 --> 00:22:14,445
'cause we're very fragile as living organisms.

410
00:22:14,745 --> 00:22:16,695
So that's, that's the, the goal.

411
00:22:16,725 --> 00:22:18,405
And then the, you had asked about how we'll

412
00:22:18,405 --> 00:22:19,995
get there, there are a couple of different.

413
00:22:20,655 --> 00:22:22,365
Technology's under development.

414
00:22:22,395 --> 00:22:25,275
There is one rocket called the Space Launch System,

415
00:22:25,275 --> 00:22:28,515
or SLS, that is one rocket that's proposed to go.

416
00:22:28,545 --> 00:22:31,755
Um, SpaceX has a contract to develop Starship, which is

417
00:22:31,755 --> 00:22:36,135
the most powerful engine ever or or Rocket ever developed.

418
00:22:36,255 --> 00:22:40,605
Blue origins working on New Glen to be a possible vehicle as well.

419
00:22:40,605 --> 00:22:43,425
So you have multiple companies, entities

420
00:22:43,425 --> 00:22:45,860
who are working on technologies to get us.

421
00:22:46,544 --> 00:22:47,145
To the moon.

422
00:22:47,625 --> 00:22:49,245
Really, I'm, I'm excited about it.

423
00:22:49,245 --> 00:22:52,695
I grew up a kid of the, uh, Apollo missions and that, that

424
00:22:52,754 --> 00:22:56,084
has always been, uh, something I wish that we were doing more.

425
00:22:56,084 --> 00:22:57,764
I'm glad to see that we're heading back.

426
00:22:57,945 --> 00:23:00,645
Just as reminded as you're talking about 3D printing and how that's

427
00:23:00,645 --> 00:23:04,365
changing the world, this is also a, a great center here, A 3D printing.

428
00:23:04,365 --> 00:23:07,155
Oakridge National Lab has a great leadership in that.

429
00:23:07,155 --> 00:23:10,034
Amy Elliot, who works there as a, as a good friend of the

430
00:23:10,034 --> 00:23:11,985
American Museum of Science and Energy, and is one of the, I

431
00:23:12,195 --> 00:23:15,105
think, national leaders in 3D printing, which offers so many.

432
00:23:15,365 --> 00:23:18,185
Possibilities for the moon and, and for earth and elsewhere.

433
00:23:18,695 --> 00:23:22,415
Uh, William, you mentioned a couple times unmanned probes and

434
00:23:22,805 --> 00:23:26,735
exploration of, of, uh, further planets out Mars and beyond

435
00:23:27,035 --> 00:23:31,175
even taking, uh, pictures of Pluto, which very glad to see that.

436
00:23:31,535 --> 00:23:35,945
How do you tell that story at Space Center Houston, of those unmanned missions?

437
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:37,530
Oh, absolutely.

438
00:23:37,530 --> 00:23:41,250
In fact, if any of the unmanned missions are related to humans, ultimately

439
00:23:41,250 --> 00:23:45,420
going into Space, Johnson Space Center manages the science for those programs.

440
00:23:46,050 --> 00:23:50,250
So the recent rovers on Mars, for example, opportunity and

441
00:23:50,250 --> 00:23:53,370
others, the the science is actually done here, even though

442
00:23:53,820 --> 00:23:56,910
the s the technology behind sending those probes and the, and,

443
00:23:56,910 --> 00:23:59,880
and managing them happen through Jet Propulsion Laboratory.

444
00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:03,090
The JPL Center is affiliated NASA Center with Caltech.

445
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:07,260
The science piece, what we're trying to understand happens here 'cause

446
00:24:07,260 --> 00:24:11,550
it's ultimately gonna inform human missions, and these missions take years

447
00:24:11,550 --> 00:24:15,000
and years and years to plan with incredible amounts of testing and care.

448
00:24:15,420 --> 00:24:19,500
We absolutely interpret unmanned missions because they're the

449
00:24:19,500 --> 00:24:22,560
lowest risks because we're not putting at risk human life.

450
00:24:23,219 --> 00:24:26,189
And we, of course, we don't want any of those missions to fail.

451
00:24:26,189 --> 00:24:29,219
We do the best we can to prepare for those, but if we

452
00:24:29,219 --> 00:24:31,889
do, you still get to go home at night to your family.

453
00:24:32,129 --> 00:24:33,510
And so that's really important.

454
00:24:33,629 --> 00:24:37,530
So an example would be nasa, uh, conducted, I think one of the most

455
00:24:37,530 --> 00:24:42,570
incredible missions, the Cyrus Racks, where they sent a probe to an asteroid

456
00:24:42,750 --> 00:24:46,649
called Benu, orbited it for a couple of years, and studied the asteroid.

457
00:24:47,250 --> 00:24:48,060
Crashed into it.

458
00:24:48,060 --> 00:24:51,690
And, and Benno, I should know, is an asteroid that formed

459
00:24:51,899 --> 00:24:55,050
shortly after the Big Bang that created our solar system.

460
00:24:55,110 --> 00:24:58,290
And it's part of many asteroids and other stuff

461
00:24:58,290 --> 00:25:01,260
that's caught in the gravitational pull of the sun.

462
00:25:01,290 --> 00:25:01,530
Right.

463
00:25:01,530 --> 00:25:02,340
And it's orbiting.

464
00:25:02,850 --> 00:25:05,040
So of course you've got our planets, you've got the

465
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:07,200
Kepler belt, you've got, there's a lot of stuff out there.

466
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:08,264
People don't realize it's not.

467
00:25:09,135 --> 00:25:10,695
Just the planets for their moons.

468
00:25:11,055 --> 00:25:12,675
There's a lot of stuff out there that's

469
00:25:12,855 --> 00:25:15,014
caught by the gravitational pull of the sun.

470
00:25:15,254 --> 00:25:19,995
And so at some point, likely Ben was part of some larger entity

471
00:25:19,995 --> 00:25:23,685
that got blown up or hit by something and has been orbiting,

472
00:25:23,774 --> 00:25:27,465
um, the sun for, you know, they think over 4 billion years.

473
00:25:28,215 --> 00:25:31,754
And so this mission was nearly seven years.

474
00:25:31,754 --> 00:25:32,565
Imagine this.

475
00:25:32,985 --> 00:25:38,055
We figured out a way to launch a probe from Earth catch up to this asteroid.

476
00:25:38,595 --> 00:25:41,715
Orbit it for a couple of years, crash into it, collect a sample,

477
00:25:41,715 --> 00:25:45,075
and bring it back to earth on the very date, within the hour.

478
00:25:45,195 --> 00:25:48,435
Forecasted right or planned seven years prior.

479
00:25:48,645 --> 00:25:52,935
It was returned to Earth last year and NASA has been studying it and it got

480
00:25:52,935 --> 00:25:56,710
a lot of attention because they had a really hard time opening up the probe.

481
00:25:58,095 --> 00:26:01,425
What it turned out happened was it collected too much sample.

482
00:26:01,425 --> 00:26:03,225
They thought it had lost sample, but it collected

483
00:26:03,225 --> 00:26:05,985
more than they had expected and it caused it to jam.

484
00:26:06,615 --> 00:26:10,425
Well, they figured out how to open it up and we tell that story and we have

485
00:26:10,425 --> 00:26:14,715
a piece of it on exhibit and so far, and it's being studied, but what they've

486
00:26:14,715 --> 00:26:22,125
determined so far is that that sample contains amino acids and water and carbon

487
00:26:22,365 --> 00:26:25,274
building blocks of life, and they're gonna discover other things over time.

488
00:26:25,274 --> 00:26:25,455
Right.

489
00:26:25,455 --> 00:26:25,695
So.

490
00:26:26,564 --> 00:26:29,745
This is fascinating to think the building blocks of life

491
00:26:29,745 --> 00:26:33,314
were in part of the Big Bang that created our solar system.

492
00:26:33,824 --> 00:26:38,264
So what it suggests is that those elements exist in other places.

493
00:26:38,264 --> 00:26:41,504
It really took root for some reason on earth and it evolved.

494
00:26:41,745 --> 00:26:43,784
Looks like it kind of maybe started in Mars.

495
00:26:43,784 --> 00:26:47,205
We'll find out once those Mars samples come back and we can study them further.

496
00:26:47,745 --> 00:26:51,014
But we know now that Mars had oceans, it had the

497
00:26:51,014 --> 00:26:54,014
seismic activity, it had also the other components.

498
00:26:54,375 --> 00:26:56,805
That could have stimulated life in some way.

499
00:26:56,955 --> 00:27:02,025
We also know that, as I referenced, that you've got planets like Enceladus

500
00:27:02,030 --> 00:27:05,685
or, or moons like Enceladus and Titan that have these massive oceans.

501
00:27:06,255 --> 00:27:09,675
Um, we're gonna learn a lot more about how, and

502
00:27:09,675 --> 00:27:12,795
hopefully over time, what were the, the triggers, right?

503
00:27:12,795 --> 00:27:17,715
That led to this collision of things and that enabled life to happen on earth.

504
00:27:18,450 --> 00:27:22,140
Maybe life is, is in some form there, we just don't know yet.

505
00:27:22,500 --> 00:27:23,850
Endlessly fascinating.

506
00:27:23,910 --> 00:27:26,490
William, I'll tell you, uh, you know, we also not only are

507
00:27:26,490 --> 00:27:29,879
exploring our solar system, but we're looking further and further

508
00:27:30,390 --> 00:27:34,680
into space back in time with things like the web telescope.

509
00:27:35,370 --> 00:27:37,890
Just how, how do you tell that story and what, what really

510
00:27:37,890 --> 00:27:42,420
distinguishes Web and Hubble and how they're built and what they do.

511
00:27:43,139 --> 00:27:45,990
Well, absolutely, and we're always developing new technologies,

512
00:27:45,990 --> 00:27:48,840
and again, that's something that we interpret here as well.

513
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:54,120
So for example, in our Starship Gallery where we have the command modules

514
00:27:54,120 --> 00:27:59,340
from Mercury, Redstone, Gemini, and Apollo 17, we have a diorama representing

515
00:27:59,669 --> 00:28:04,439
Jack Schmidt and Gene Cernan doing collection of samples in Apollo 17.

516
00:28:04,439 --> 00:28:07,139
And in the corner we have this really interesting camera

517
00:28:08,010 --> 00:28:11,280
and it was created by an engineer named George Caruthers.

518
00:28:12,285 --> 00:28:16,365
And it's the first time, and it went up actually in Apollo 16, and it's

519
00:28:16,365 --> 00:28:20,295
the first time ever we captured infrared images of earth from space.

520
00:28:20,595 --> 00:28:24,135
That technology, that device led to the creation

521
00:28:24,135 --> 00:28:26,115
of Hubble and James Webb's space Telescope.

522
00:28:26,595 --> 00:28:30,285
And he created that back, you know, in the, the late sixties, right?

523
00:28:30,285 --> 00:28:33,045
Because that went up in the 16, you know, 1971.

524
00:28:33,795 --> 00:28:35,625
And so Hubble actually.

525
00:28:36,705 --> 00:28:40,514
Is remarkable and, and incredible technology, and it still is even

526
00:28:40,514 --> 00:28:45,915
though it's decades old, but it's, you know, is really about capturing

527
00:28:45,915 --> 00:28:48,554
the light that you might be able to see with the human eye, right?

528
00:28:48,554 --> 00:28:50,145
And so it's in low earth orbit.

529
00:28:50,534 --> 00:28:53,205
Hubble is actually orbiting Earth at about,

530
00:28:53,324 --> 00:28:57,225
you know, 320 miles above the surface of earth.

531
00:28:57,735 --> 00:29:00,074
You know, the space station's at about 240 miles.

532
00:29:00,495 --> 00:29:01,754
To give you kind of perspective.

533
00:29:02,159 --> 00:29:04,500
So it's held by Earth's gravitational pull, and it's going at

534
00:29:04,500 --> 00:29:07,530
a speed that it stays at the right altitude, right above earth.

535
00:29:08,070 --> 00:29:10,260
It doesn't crash in or go out into space.

536
00:29:10,949 --> 00:29:14,250
And so it captures amazing images looking out into space.

537
00:29:14,250 --> 00:29:16,139
It's, it's really remarkable technology and it

538
00:29:16,139 --> 00:29:20,895
has about a 7.9 foot array of mirrors, right?

539
00:29:20,895 --> 00:29:22,169
It's a capture light.

540
00:29:22,439 --> 00:29:23,280
That's what it does.

541
00:29:23,699 --> 00:29:27,750
The big difference with, um, James Web Space Telescope is it's infrared.

542
00:29:28,455 --> 00:29:32,235
It's also over a million miles away from the sun,

543
00:29:32,835 --> 00:29:35,625
so it's much further out and it orbits the sun.

544
00:29:35,685 --> 00:29:38,685
It doesn't orbit earth, and so it basically

545
00:29:38,685 --> 00:29:41,475
has an unobstructed view out into space.

546
00:29:41,835 --> 00:29:43,755
It's not obstructed by orbiting Earth.

547
00:29:44,265 --> 00:29:46,305
It's actually six times more powerful.

548
00:29:47,355 --> 00:29:50,865
Again, think of light is on an array, right, on a spectrum.

549
00:29:50,865 --> 00:29:55,335
And so hubble's capturing one segment of it, more or less what the human eye

550
00:29:55,335 --> 00:29:59,835
sees, but with a greater, much greater sensitivity and light array we can see.

551
00:30:00,195 --> 00:30:04,725
And then James Webb is capturing the spectrum that or the human eye can't

552
00:30:04,725 --> 00:30:08,505
perceive and we can translate that into something we're visually able to see.

553
00:30:08,505 --> 00:30:11,835
And so that's when we see these amazing images, they've taken the

554
00:30:11,835 --> 00:30:14,865
infrared and translate it into something the human eye can proceed.

555
00:30:15,195 --> 00:30:15,495
It's.

556
00:30:15,825 --> 00:30:20,835
Incredible web is the most advanced technology, you know, and there is

557
00:30:20,835 --> 00:30:27,015
actually planning for another space telescope that will be even more powerful.

558
00:30:27,705 --> 00:30:29,415
That conversation's underway.

559
00:30:29,475 --> 00:30:33,105
I mean, it's very expensive, but you know, you're looking back

560
00:30:33,615 --> 00:30:38,625
13 billion years with that infrared technology and it's helped

561
00:30:38,625 --> 00:30:42,135
us understand that there aren't hundreds of millions of other.

562
00:30:42,930 --> 00:30:45,570
Universes and galaxies, they're trillions.

563
00:30:46,410 --> 00:30:50,400
And so it suggests that space truly is limitless.

564
00:30:50,460 --> 00:30:51,930
It's just keeps going.

565
00:30:52,740 --> 00:30:55,530
And so now we're able to capture some of that imagery.

566
00:30:55,530 --> 00:30:59,820
And if you've not seen it, I really encourage you just to Google, you

567
00:30:59,820 --> 00:31:02,760
know James with Space Telescope and you see the pillars of creation and

568
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:07,800
some of these other amazing black holes and the evolution of planets.

569
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:09,000
And I mean, this is also new.

570
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:10,440
It's just been a couple of years.

571
00:31:11,175 --> 00:31:17,445
And, and it's completely changing our understanding of space and

572
00:31:17,445 --> 00:31:20,115
also challenging some theories of physics and affirming others.

573
00:31:21,375 --> 00:31:23,865
Um, so it's incredibly exciting.

574
00:31:24,405 --> 00:31:24,945
It is.

575
00:31:25,004 --> 00:31:28,305
We've had several guests on talking about specific elements of

576
00:31:28,305 --> 00:31:30,615
that, you know, looking for first light, essentially getting

577
00:31:30,615 --> 00:31:33,975
back as far back in time, close to the big bang as possible.

578
00:31:33,975 --> 00:31:36,735
We, we had Heino Fay on at one point talking about

579
00:31:36,735 --> 00:31:38,985
that image of the black hole they were able to take.

580
00:31:38,985 --> 00:31:43,125
That's not what web, but with other telescopes, we're learning so much more.

581
00:31:43,125 --> 00:31:43,485
But there's.

582
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:47,970
More to be learned, obviously, and I'm, I'm excited about what the future holds.

583
00:31:47,970 --> 00:31:50,820
And, and to that point, William, uh, I have a, a

584
00:31:50,820 --> 00:31:53,610
non easy question is how do we keep doing that?

585
00:31:53,610 --> 00:31:56,040
How do we keep innovating and maintain our

586
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:58,590
leadership and space and space exploration?

587
00:31:59,100 --> 00:32:00,120
That's a huge question.

588
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:00,510
Yes.

589
00:32:00,525 --> 00:32:05,490
Um, I definitely have my opinion about it, but I, I think we can hold

590
00:32:05,490 --> 00:32:11,580
on to our, our leadership if we continue to collaborate and innovate.

591
00:32:12,540 --> 00:32:15,330
We have to continue to invest even more so than we have in

592
00:32:15,330 --> 00:32:19,800
the past in learning and understand that we have to truly

593
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:23,940
nurture that natural inquisitiveness critical thinking skills

594
00:32:23,940 --> 00:32:26,730
that we all possess as human beings and really embrace those.

595
00:32:27,570 --> 00:32:31,080
And you know, something that has been, I think Bemoaned for

596
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:35,310
many years is the decline of the appreciation of basic science.

597
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,880
Because some of the greatest innovations and insights

598
00:32:38,910 --> 00:32:41,220
happened by accident, or they weren't the intent.

599
00:32:42,270 --> 00:32:46,379
So I think becoming overly focused on very specific

600
00:32:46,409 --> 00:32:49,020
outcomes and solutions can narrow your thinking.

601
00:32:49,709 --> 00:32:52,530
And so it's not bad that you're trying to come up with an answer to a

602
00:32:52,530 --> 00:32:57,000
question, but you have to be open to, to deviating from that path when

603
00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:01,979
something really provocative or interesting comes up and be willing

604
00:33:01,979 --> 00:33:06,120
to pursue that because life is so complex and interesting and we're.

605
00:33:06,540 --> 00:33:08,940
Understanding things at an ever more complicated,

606
00:33:09,180 --> 00:33:12,060
uh, that have ever more accelerated pace.

607
00:33:12,300 --> 00:33:15,600
We can't be conventional in our thinking, you know, we have to be open.

608
00:33:15,930 --> 00:33:21,540
So I think to me, it's how do we sustain the appreciation of being

609
00:33:21,540 --> 00:33:26,280
creative and innovative and then also, uh, with younger people,

610
00:33:26,370 --> 00:33:30,270
uh, encouraging them in particular to always ask questions.

611
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:32,730
I think I, you know, I look at our workforce

612
00:33:32,730 --> 00:33:35,145
now and what I say to my, my staff, I.

613
00:33:35,715 --> 00:33:38,655
At Space Center Houston is explore what

614
00:33:38,655 --> 00:33:43,004
interests you because it's not linear anymore.

615
00:33:43,004 --> 00:33:46,155
You don't get your degree in aeronautical engineering

616
00:33:46,155 --> 00:33:48,405
and just do the same job for 30 years and retire.

617
00:33:49,245 --> 00:33:53,504
It's really about how you can evolve yourself around

618
00:33:53,504 --> 00:33:57,180
your interests and passions to pursue questions in life.

619
00:33:58,470 --> 00:34:01,169
You're always gonna draw upon your experiences.

620
00:34:01,169 --> 00:34:05,399
Whatever they are, they're gonna contribute to who you are as a human being.

621
00:34:06,389 --> 00:34:09,900
And so it really value that.

622
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:13,739
And then also understand that, well, no one likes to fail.

623
00:34:13,770 --> 00:34:15,330
No one likes to trip up.

624
00:34:15,330 --> 00:34:16,350
That is just life.

625
00:34:16,980 --> 00:34:21,000
And when it happens, you know, really developing the maturity

626
00:34:21,054 --> 00:34:23,909
to, to step back and say, well, what, what can I learn from that?

627
00:34:24,029 --> 00:34:25,350
What can I take forward?

628
00:34:26,085 --> 00:34:28,425
That's gonna help me in some other way in my life.

629
00:34:28,695 --> 00:34:31,665
And so I think those are the, the things that I think are gonna

630
00:34:31,665 --> 00:34:34,965
be important for us, continue to be creative and innovative.

631
00:34:35,295 --> 00:34:40,635
And I don't discourage competition, but I think it should

632
00:34:40,635 --> 00:34:44,145
be in the spirit of who can come up with a great idea.

633
00:34:44,595 --> 00:34:48,885
And when someone else does celebrate it, you know, embrace that and

634
00:34:49,035 --> 00:34:54,615
don't view it as a failure on your behalf or some kind of a shortcoming.

635
00:34:55,034 --> 00:34:59,235
Build on that knowledge and you know, really look at how you can

636
00:34:59,235 --> 00:35:04,815
advance that in some way that improves the quality of life for humanity.

637
00:35:05,475 --> 00:35:08,355
Well, William, I will say, I, I said that was a difficult question.

638
00:35:08,355 --> 00:35:10,665
You said it was a difficult question, but you gave a terrific

639
00:35:10,665 --> 00:35:14,505
answer to it, so that's probably, you really frame that out so well.

640
00:35:14,505 --> 00:35:17,325
I know they have a great leader there in you at Space Center Houston.

641
00:35:17,715 --> 00:35:21,255
Uh, what's next for Space Center Houston and, and where can our listeners

642
00:35:21,255 --> 00:35:23,985
go to learn more about what you're doing and how they can visit?

643
00:35:24,990 --> 00:35:27,750
We are in the position of continued growth and I think

644
00:35:27,810 --> 00:35:30,930
we kind of, our representation of the public's interest

645
00:35:30,930 --> 00:35:34,620
in space exploration and it's to me not an accident.

646
00:35:34,620 --> 00:35:37,080
We as human beings have always looked to the stars.

647
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:42,240
We've always used the stars for inspiration, for guidance to know

648
00:35:42,240 --> 00:35:46,680
when we should seed our crops, when we should harvest to navigate.

649
00:35:47,220 --> 00:35:48,540
It's a part of us.

650
00:35:48,540 --> 00:35:50,220
We are part of the universe, right?

651
00:35:50,220 --> 00:35:51,435
We are made of the stars.

652
00:35:52,170 --> 00:35:53,310
Now we can go there.

653
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:56,850
And that is incredibly exciting, I think, to the public.

654
00:35:56,850 --> 00:36:02,759
And so it's been represented really in, in how we're, we're, our attendance just

655
00:36:02,759 --> 00:36:06,450
continues to grow here, and we've, we've exceeded the capacity of our building.

656
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:08,190
So we're in the process.

657
00:36:08,190 --> 00:36:11,190
We've just approved a new, uh, facilities plan where

658
00:36:11,490 --> 00:36:15,240
we're going to change, we'll keep the historic, but we're

659
00:36:15,240 --> 00:36:18,600
really expanding our facility and adding new experiences.

660
00:36:19,515 --> 00:36:22,065
And adding a lot of new programmatic content as well.

661
00:36:22,605 --> 00:36:24,555
But the best source to learn more about what we

662
00:36:24,555 --> 00:36:27,735
do is our website, which is space center.org org.

663
00:36:28,425 --> 00:36:30,884
'cause that's where we post the latest and where

664
00:36:30,884 --> 00:36:33,225
you can learn about experiences or plan your visit.

665
00:36:33,795 --> 00:36:38,265
And then something I'm really committed to here is we actually

666
00:36:38,265 --> 00:36:40,755
have a phone number you can call that a human answers.

667
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:45,090
And we'll help you plan your visit or understand

668
00:36:45,090 --> 00:36:46,950
the options of things that you can do here.

669
00:36:47,279 --> 00:36:53,130
Well, I am very excited about automated services and you know,

670
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:56,370
generative AI and artificial intelligence and things of that nature.

671
00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:58,620
And we actually use those technologies here.

672
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:00,210
We're still human beings.

673
00:37:00,210 --> 00:37:03,060
I think it's really important that we have that human interface.

674
00:37:03,060 --> 00:37:03,360
So.

675
00:37:03,885 --> 00:37:05,745
We have a live operator if you call.

676
00:37:05,895 --> 00:37:06,195
Wow.

677
00:37:06,285 --> 00:37:06,525
Wow.

678
00:37:06,795 --> 00:37:08,205
And that number's on the website.

679
00:37:08,325 --> 00:37:09,615
It is very good.

680
00:37:09,705 --> 00:37:10,215
Very good.

681
00:37:10,215 --> 00:37:12,915
Well, William, I can't tell you how much I enjoyed our conversation.

682
00:37:12,915 --> 00:37:13,905
It's great to see you.

683
00:37:13,905 --> 00:37:16,065
Thank you so much for joining us on Amsi Cast.

684
00:37:16,485 --> 00:37:17,355
Thank you so much.

685
00:37:17,355 --> 00:37:19,455
It's really been fun speaking with you and

686
00:37:19,455 --> 00:37:20,895
look forward to hosting you on a visit.

687
00:37:21,270 --> 00:37:21,810
Thank you.

688
00:37:26,850 --> 00:37:29,730
Thank you for joining us on this episode of Amse Cast.

689
00:37:29,940 --> 00:37:33,930
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690
00:37:33,930 --> 00:37:41,009
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691
00:37:41,399 --> 00:37:43,740
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692
00:37:43,740 --> 00:37:46,290
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693
00:37:46,850 --> 00:37:51,020
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694
00:37:51,470 --> 00:37:54,920
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695
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:58,759
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696
00:37:58,759 --> 00:38:02,720
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697
00:38:02,720 --> 00:38:08,630
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698
00:38:09,049 --> 00:38:10,520
And of course, thanks to our wonderful

699
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:12,650
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700
00:38:13,130 --> 00:38:15,980
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701
00:38:18,510 --> 00:38:21,900
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703
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707
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708
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714
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