Why We Go to Space: Curiosity, Innovation, and the Human Spirit with William Harris

0:04 Welcome to Amse Cast. Coming to you from Oak Ridge, Tennessee, a global leader in science, technology, and innovation. My name is Alan Lowe, director of the American Museum of Science and Energy, and the K 25 History Center. Each episode of Amse Cast presents well renowned authors, scientists, historians, policymakers, and everyone in between sharing their insights on a variety of fascinating topics. Welcome to AMS Z Cast. Thanks to a generous grant from the Institute, from Museum and Library Services, or IMLS. We're continuing our focus on 250 years of American innovation and to help us with that.

0:46 I'm so pleased to be joined in this episode by William Harris, the president and CEO of Space Center Houston, with the Manned Space Flight Education Foundation. William joined that foundation in 2016. After many years in nonprofit leadership. He really has, uh, an amazing resume that I simply cannot do justice with leadership positions at places like the California Science Foundation, where I believe he successfully helped obtain the Space shuttle Endeavor, UCLA. The Boston School of Medicine really was even a Peace Corps volunteer, and I'm leaving out a lot, ladies and gentlemen. Today in addition to heading up Space Center Houston, he's also very involved in supporting museums around the nation, including, for example, serving as past chair of the Association of Science and Technology Centers, or A STC, of which the AMZ Foundation is a very proud member.

1:38 William, thanks so much for joining us on amsi Cast. Well, thank you for having me. I'm delighted to be here. It's really good to see you. Let's start a little bit, I wanna learn a bit about, uh, space Center Houston, and then jump into some questions about innovation as, as you show it there. When we come to Space Center Houston, which I hope to do soon, what stories do you tell on your exhibits and perhaps what are some of the key artifacts you use to help tell those stories? Well, first off, space Center Houston is a nonprofit organization, but we also serve as official visitor center for NASA Johnson Space Center, and that is the NASA Center focused on human space exploration and everything associated with that. And so our focus really is being the public interface to help individuals understand why do we go to space, what does it involve and what are the benefits to humanity?

2:25 So we do that through, um, interpreting the past, present, and future of space exploration. And really our purpose is to bring people in space closer together. And then our mission is to reveal how science and humanity, power exploration. And so it's really about how. We, uh, as humans have these capabilities to do extraordinary things, and we're not evolved as a species to go to space yet we have figured out how to do that, and we're on the path to becoming an interplanetary species. And so it's really demystifying that and helping the public understand all the work that has gone into getting to this point in time and where we're going into the future.

3:07 You, you have a pretty good gig, William. I gotta say that sounds like an amazing mission. So, so when we come there, what do we see? What are the some of the things we would see at the Space Center Houston? Well, I always say to people, you should really plan at least half a day, and that sounds like an overwhelming amount of time. However, our facility alone is huge again. Are really focused on kind of learning goals and experiences, and then use the artifacts to help support those as opposed to the other way around, which is more the conventional approach of air and space museums. And so you will see here everything from the podium, oh this, this lecture at which President John F. Kennedy gave his famous moonshot speech to flown artifacts from the Mercury Redstone saw single astronaut Gini two, and then Apollo 17 command module.

3:54 We had the largest exhibition of lunar samples from Apollo 15, 16, and 17, and one you can touch. We're an extension of the, of the materials lab from Johnson Space Center. We also have amazing things that were used in developing exploration, so the actual training module for Sky Lab, which preceded International Space Station. We do a whole area that, uh, interprets current research happening in ISS. A lot of live interactive programs and then something we're very proud of. We just premiered in partnership with Tom Hanks, an immersive experience called the Moonwalks, A Journey with Tom Hanks. Where we have adapted one of our three theaters with projection mapping and upgraded audio to mes you in the experience of the Apollo astronauts.

4:40 And then tying that to the current priority of Artemis, the return to the moon and our future area. We look at Mars and what it will it take for humans to go to Mars and the things we still need to figure out before we go in that direction. And then very robust live programming as well. So it's very immersive. The other part of your visit here is because we are the visitor center for NASA Johnson Space Center. We can take you behind the scenes and it's one of the big reasons people come here. You get to look at under the hood of the car, as I like to describe it, and understand the inner workings of Johnson Space Center. So. You can board a tram and we'll take you to the vehicle mock-up facility where we train astronauts for the International Space Station, and you never know what's going to happen in any particular day that you'll get to see.

5:27 You'll also be able to go to the uh, on some of our tours, the International Space Station control room, where we fly the ISS. And you see real time astronauts in space doing experiments. We also have the historic mission operations control room from the Apollo era, and we have, it's a national historic landmark and we have actually curated a, a short experience where you relive the Apollo 11 landing, just the way it happened, all the real audio and experiences. And then on some of our tours, we also take you to the neutral buoyancy lab, which is the 6 million gallon. Pool where we train astronauts for space walks. And so often when you go there in the daytime, there are astronauts in the pool training for doing space walks.

6:08 So again, you're, you're really understanding all that's involved in humans going into these environments that are actually, you know, wanna kill us. Yeah, that's right. So, amazing experiences at Space Center Houston, I know you, you are also very dedicated to, to stem. Uh, tell us maybe a few things you offer in terms of STEM education. Absolutely. When I came here, the, the board really wanted to pivot Space Center Houston into a dynamic learning destination from being run more as an attraction. And a lot of institutions are run as attractions. It's not bad. People are looking for things to do and, and we want, and you still have fun when you come here, but something I recognized and really this spans from my time in California.

6:51 Is that for decades, America has had a real challenge with encouraging people to pursue careers in stem. And increasingly, we are an information based technology based economy, and there are so many opportunities here in Texas, for example, 10% of the space economies in the state. We have 17 of 20 major aerospace firms and they're constantly competing for qualified. Employees and you really need a village for space exploration. So yes, you need to have your scientists and engineers, but you also need to have your food scientists. You need to have upholsterers who are making spacesuits and other components. You need to have your people in marketing and finance.

7:33 So you need a wide variety of skills. But really a lot of them are, they're science oriented. They're undergirded by that. So something that has become a top priority for us is stem learning toward workforce development. How do we support individuals at a young age to nurture that? Natural inquisition is curiosity we all possess and encourage them to pursue this pathway. Everybody can do stem. It's a really misinformation to say that I'm bad at math. It's a question of practice, and then it's also a question of embracing adversity and challenge. And so that's what has made NASA successful. You know, the big adage they use here is we make the impossible possible.

8:17 That is the, the NASA spirit, right? And so we try to embody that in everything that we do here. Sounds very familiar, William. We do the same type of programming here, especially in Oak Ridge. This has become, and it's always been, but it's really becoming even more so a nuclear hub with around 200 or so companies in this region. And this nuclear renaissance. And a big question is where's the workforce coming from and how can we, as the American Museum of Science and Energy help inspire kids to go into STEM related careers? So we are right there with you in that regard. You had a couple things that really, from our innovation viewpoint, when I, when I looked at your materials online, that that spoke to me.

8:57 This Innovation gateway programs, what, what are those? So exploration is really about innovation, right? It's all about coming up with new ideas and pursuing those and basing knowledge on, based on knowledge that we have obtained over time. One of our approaches with with STEM learning, and this is also to kinda emulate that life is hard. There's adversity in life and things are not linear. Sometimes they are, but they're often not. And so our innovation gateway is a strategy to encourage particularly young people to start participating in different kinds of competitions. As a way to learn how to work in teams, how to articulate a problem, and then a strategy to understand it and address it, and then to study it, collect information, so the fundamentals of science, right, and come to some conclusions and theories.

9:47 And so we have a whole range of challenges and the, the entry level one we're doing right now is actually on carbon capture. And any youth can participate in this. And we typically do it with school districts. And so. It's coming up with ideas around how can we address the fact that we're releasing too much carbon into our atmosphere and it's creating an imbalance and resulting in climate change. So that is our, our beginning of the spectrum. Then in our innovation gateway portfolio, we also. Have, you know, science fairs happen, right? But they generally have to be organized in a school or a school district. You need to have a teacher who is going to be the sponsor and mentor and organizer with the students.

10:31 So we have a number of schools in Houston that don't have that infrastructure. So we become a sponsor of those students. We help them and mentor them to participate in science fair projects and. I'm so excited to say there were three young women from a local school who wanted to participate. We mentored them. They went on to win in their category, and they were not part of a club in their school. So that, to me is an example of everyone. Everything is possible, right? They're, they're just different strategies and approaches. And then in our innovation gateway, ultimate, if you will, or most difficult challenge, is what we call the Conrad Challenge, named after p Conrad. Who was a moonwalker and was established by his widow because Pete was a really unconventional person and in so many ways, you would think he would not have been successful in life.

11:21 He was kicked out of high school and he, they, he was not diagnosed with dyslexia. He had dyslexia, and that's why he couldn't, he was having a hard time. He was a smart young person, but he wasn't able to comply with the formal didactic learning system in place. His mother wouldn't give up and so she found another school and a great mentor. He went on to graduate and go to Princeton and graduated from Princeton 'cause he learned how to manage his ability with dyslexia. Then loved fast things and so went into the Air Force, became a fighter pilot. Qualified to become an an astronaut. So here's someone with dyslexia who became an astronaut.

12:02 And so he always was about how he, he could overcome obstacles and he supported that in others. After his career at nasa, he went on to become a very successful entrepreneur and always supported others, you know, who didn't have the conventional path in life. So that's the spirit of this competition and it's international. We encourage, there's high school age students and the, the real goal of it is in four categories to come up with an idea, a concept, and then something that could be brought to market. And so we have thousands of kids apply from around the world. We encourage international teams. We had a team last year that had two students from Bangladesh and with two students from South Korea on the same team.

12:45 We have a thousand volunteer judges. You know who are patent attorneys and intellectual property specialists and other scientists. We select about 200 of the kids to come for a week of Shark Tank here at Space Center Houston. And they have to display out in the public on the floor. We want the public to interact with them. They have to pitch their ideas, and then the students get mentored and we help them pro bono bring, get intellectual property, uh, legally, or a patent. On their product. So I'll give you an example. One of the students who won last year, one team was from the Czech Republic and came up with this concept of a micros sat that could go out and reactivate dead satellites and collect, uh, extend the life of the satellite and or repurpose them into something else.

13:36 They got a $3 million investment from their, from their concept. So these are kids in high school. I absolutely love that, and that's really what we're trying to encourage here is. Understanding that as human beings, we set our own boundaries and our own limitations, and we're capable of so much more. So what really undergirds all of our programming here is to help people understand you are capable of so much more. You can push, push out those self-imposed guardrails and boundaries and under and really pursue those possibilities. Think back to the Apollo era. They figured out how to go to the moon using side rails.

14:16 We didn't begin to introduce computers until about 1965, right? So all of the work that went the decade beforehand, you know, to figure out the million components of the Saturn five rocket, to figure out the telemetry, to figure out all of those components and, and. Where people had never gone before. They figured it out before we had computers. It's remarkable. Well, that kind of leads to one of my next questions, William, is it's maybe a hard one to answer. I know it is hard one to answer, but what explains that kinda American ability we showed in in NASA and all that, that the beginnings of the space age, it lets sets amazing progress. That's amazing Innovation.

14:57 Not even using the tools we have available today. I think it's something that has resulted from the structure of America, the fact that we are essentially a country of migrants, that people had to overcome incredible challenges and make incredible sacrifices to migrate here, and it's building on something that's in us, and I think that we've just, we attract people who are non-conventional, right? Who are willing to make these incredible sacrifices. Looking for new opportunity or a better life for themselves and their descendants. And so, and I think that mashup as messy and conflictual as it can be leads to that innovation.

15:39 And so that's why I am such a huge advocate of diversity because I think when you look at the most productive teams, it's when you have people with different perspectives and views and you give them space to share those and you seriously consider them. And you look at how. It gets to that ultimate vision or goal of what you're setting out to do. And so, and I think that's evidenced by all the innovation that you have seen over the centuries in America. To me, that's the pillar of why this country is so extraordinary. It, it was almost overwhelming, William to say, uh, we were gonna look at 250 years of American innovation. Because there's so much, it's, it's, it's, it's amazing what this country has contributed and certainly one of those things was the space shuttle, which I know you have some experience talking about there.

16:27 And at your previous positions. Can you perhaps describe, just in general, how you think the Space Shuttle contributed to our understanding of space and, and how do you tell that story at Space Center Houston? Yeah. So we are fortunate to have the shuttle carrier aircraft, the 7 47 that transported shuttle, and we have the high fidelity. Trading module independence. And so we incorporate that into this whole development timeline. Right. So we begin with, um, just really the, the beginnings of exploration or trying to send humans into space. And then where we've gotten to at this point in time is the shuttle's a critical piece of that. And the shuttle really made pa, uh, possible the audacious idea.

17:08 Uh, a million square foot laboratory that's orbiting Earth at 17,500 miles an hour, you know, orbits Earth every 90 minutes where we've had humans on this for 25 years. That is crazy. Yet it would not have happened without the space shuttle. We probably could have done it with rockets, right? The first couple of modules, you know, the, the, the then, um, you know, the Russian components to go up in rockets. But the shuttle really made possible. The, the construction and also assembly of the International Space Station. And it was technology that was really complex and really dangerous, and it's incredibly tragic.

17:52 We lost two vehicles, but the odds were worse. You know, it actually, statistically, we were gonna lose more than two, but it was, but we did it. We figured it out, you know, with and, uh, and so we're continuing to innovate and look at creative ways. Of getting humans off the face of the planet. The, the shuttle is remarkable 'cause it's a combination of a rocket ship and a glider, and then just the, you know, even moving it within our atmosphere glider in the back of a 7 47. It's the craziest thing you can ever see. And yet we figured it out. We figured out how to make that work. So again, it just underscores, you know, human, human innovation. I remember the, uh, the first launch of the space shuttle.

18:33 I was in high school. Yes. Yes. And we all, uh, it captured our imagination. Remember gathering around that? That was great. Our, our teacher brought in a tv, which, you know, you didn't have, but, uh, kids today don't understand that, but you had to have a TV rolled into your classroom, and we all gathered around and watched that launch and really amazing. Now we're looking at the development of the Artemis rocket. What makes it different from the rockets of the past? How does it, and how does it figure into those next steps in the space? So Artemis is the name of the overall program like Apollo. Artemis is the twin sister of Apollo. And so there are gonna be different technologies that make that program possible. And so there is, uh, the architecture is about launching from earth to a space platform that is an orbit around the moon.

19:22 That's the gateway. Then from there there will be a shuttle that takes you between the gateway and the lunar surface. And so the advantage of that is on that vehicle that's orbiting the moon goes way out in space for than humans ever gone before and can have experiments happening on it year round. But it's really more of a bus stop for the crew 'cause they're only gonna spend a few days on it. It'll only have human habitation for a total of maybe six weeks a year. So it's a fairly small vehicle, but we can change its orbit. That way select different locations on the lunar surface for the crew to land on or depart from. And the goal of Artemis is for humans to go to the South Pole.

20:02 And the whole reason for going back to the moon is to test and prepare for humans to go ultimately onto Mars. 'cause we still haven't figured out where, how we're gonna get humans to Mars and back safely, you know, alive. Um, because it's so dangerous. We do know how to get to the moon and we know how to get to Mars. I mean, we've had. Many unmanned missions to Mars and collected incredible data, but there are a lot of factors that make it fatal for humans at this point in time or extremely dangerous. So we're looking, um, as part of the Artemis program to actually create a, a habitat where humans will live up to two months on the South Pole, and we know that there are millions of gallons of frozen water in craters because the sun never hits that space.

20:46 We now know too, that there's water throughout our solar system in the universe. You know, it's not exclusively on earth, you know, they're moons of other planets. Of salt water oceans with more volume of water than Earth does. We now know that from deep space, from probes that have gone out in the universe. And so the, the goal is to see, and the most recent missions that you've seen on the news by a company called Intuitive Machines and another called Firefly, they're trying to understand is that frozen water potable? Can we drink it? If we melt the ice, can we break it into liquid hydrogen and oxygen, which will become fuel when we rec collide them? Can we grow food? Because we can't take everything with us. We're gonna have to use natural resources, local resources, if we're gonna have long term, we're looking at things in the South Pole, like, you know, there are lava tubes, right?

21:34 Because at one time the moon was molten. So if you've ever been to the big island in Hawaii, you know, and you walk through lava tubes, well those exist in the moon. Would we'd live in the tubes. Because that would protect us from radiation and direct exposure from the sun because there's no atmosphere in the moon. So all those U-V-A-U-V-B rays that make you tan on earth would fry you over time on the surface of the moon. And there are companies that have contracts to test 3D printing, right? Taking regolith and using it to basically build, if you will, like think of an igloo or some structure. That becomes a protective habitat for humans. 'cause we're very fragile as living organisms.

22:14 So that's, that's the, the goal. And then the, you had asked about how we'll get there, there are a couple of different. Technology's under development. There is one rocket called the Space Launch System, or SLS, that is one rocket that's proposed to go. Um, SpaceX has a contract to develop Starship, which is the most powerful engine ever or or Rocket ever developed. Blue origins working on New Glen to be a possible vehicle as well. So you have multiple companies, entities who are working on technologies to get us. To the moon. Really, I'm, I'm excited about it. I grew up a kid of the, uh, Apollo missions and that, that has always been, uh, something I wish that we were doing more.

22:56 I'm glad to see that we're heading back. Just as reminded as you're talking about 3D printing and how that's changing the world, this is also a, a great center here, A 3D printing. Oakridge National Lab has a great leadership in that. Amy Elliot, who works there as a, as a good friend of the American Museum of Science and Energy, and is one of the, I think, national leaders in 3D printing, which offers so many. Possibilities for the moon and, and for earth and elsewhere. Uh, William, you mentioned a couple times unmanned probes and exploration of, of, uh, further planets out Mars and beyond even taking, uh, pictures of Pluto, which very glad to see that. How do you tell that story at Space Center Houston, of those unmanned missions?

23:36 Oh, absolutely. In fact, if any of the unmanned missions are related to humans, ultimately going into Space, Johnson Space Center manages the science for those programs. So the recent rovers on Mars, for example, opportunity and others, the the science is actually done here, even though the s the technology behind sending those probes and the, and, and managing them happen through Jet Propulsion Laboratory. The JPL Center is affiliated NASA Center with Caltech. The science piece, what we're trying to understand happens here 'cause it's ultimately gonna inform human missions, and these missions take years and years and years to plan with incredible amounts of testing and care. We absolutely interpret unmanned missions because they're the lowest risks because we're not putting at risk human life.

24:23 And we, of course, we don't want any of those missions to fail. We do the best we can to prepare for those, but if we do, you still get to go home at night to your family. And so that's really important. So an example would be nasa, uh, conducted, I think one of the most incredible missions, the Cyrus Racks, where they sent a probe to an asteroid called Benu, orbited it for a couple of years, and studied the asteroid. Crashed into it. And, and Benno, I should know, is an asteroid that formed shortly after the Big Bang that created our solar system. And it's part of many asteroids and other stuff that's caught in the gravitational pull of the sun. Right. And it's orbiting. So of course you've got our planets, you've got the Kepler belt, you've got, there's a lot of stuff out there.

25:07 People don't realize it's not. Just the planets for their moons. There's a lot of stuff out there that's caught by the gravitational pull of the sun. And so at some point, likely Ben was part of some larger entity that got blown up or hit by something and has been orbiting, um, the sun for, you know, they think over 4 billion years. And so this mission was nearly seven years. Imagine this. We figured out a way to launch a probe from Earth catch up to this asteroid. Orbit it for a couple of years, crash into it, collect a sample, and bring it back to earth on the very date, within the hour. Forecasted right or planned seven years prior.

25:48 It was returned to Earth last year and NASA has been studying it and it got a lot of attention because they had a really hard time opening up the probe. What it turned out happened was it collected too much sample. They thought it had lost sample, but it collected more than they had expected and it caused it to jam. Well, they figured out how to open it up and we tell that story and we have a piece of it on exhibit and so far, and it's being studied, but what they've determined so far is that that sample contains amino acids and water and carbon building blocks of life, and they're gonna discover other things over time. Right. So. This is fascinating to think the building blocks of life were in part of the Big Bang that created our solar system.

26:33 So what it suggests is that those elements exist in other places. It really took root for some reason on earth and it evolved. Looks like it kind of maybe started in Mars. We'll find out once those Mars samples come back and we can study them further. But we know now that Mars had oceans, it had the seismic activity, it had also the other components. That could have stimulated life in some way. We also know that, as I referenced, that you've got planets like Enceladus or, or moons like Enceladus and Titan that have these massive oceans. Um, we're gonna learn a lot more about how, and hopefully over time, what were the, the triggers, right? That led to this collision of things and that enabled life to happen on earth.

27:18 Maybe life is, is in some form there, we just don't know yet. Endlessly fascinating. William, I'll tell you, uh, you know, we also not only are exploring our solar system, but we're looking further and further into space back in time with things like the web telescope. Just how, how do you tell that story and what, what really distinguishes Web and Hubble and how they're built and what they do. Well, absolutely, and we're always developing new technologies, and again, that's something that we interpret here as well. So for example, in our Starship Gallery where we have the command modules from Mercury, Redstone, Gemini, and Apollo 17, we have a diorama representing Jack Schmidt and Gene Cernan doing collection of samples in Apollo 17.

28:04 And in the corner we have this really interesting camera and it was created by an engineer named George Caruthers. And it's the first time, and it went up actually in Apollo 16, and it's the first time ever we captured infrared images of earth from space. That technology, that device led to the creation of Hubble and James Webb's space Telescope. And he created that back, you know, in the, the late sixties, right? Because that went up in the 16, you know, 1971. And so Hubble actually. Is remarkable and, and incredible technology, and it still is even though it's decades old, but it's, you know, is really about capturing the light that you might be able to see with the human eye, right?

28:48 And so it's in low earth orbit. Hubble is actually orbiting Earth at about, you know, 320 miles above the surface of earth. You know, the space station's at about 240 miles. To give you kind of perspective. So it's held by Earth's gravitational pull, and it's going at a speed that it stays at the right altitude, right above earth. It doesn't crash in or go out into space. And so it captures amazing images looking out into space. It's, it's really remarkable technology and it has about a 7.9 foot array of mirrors, right? It's a capture light. That's what it does. The big difference with, um, James Web Space Telescope is it's infrared. It's also over a million miles away from the sun, so it's much further out and it orbits the sun.

29:35 It doesn't orbit earth, and so it basically has an unobstructed view out into space. It's not obstructed by orbiting Earth. It's actually six times more powerful. Again, think of light is on an array, right, on a spectrum. And so hubble's capturing one segment of it, more or less what the human eye sees, but with a greater, much greater sensitivity and light array we can see. And then James Webb is capturing the spectrum that or the human eye can't perceive and we can translate that into something we're visually able to see. And so that's when we see these amazing images, they've taken the infrared and translate it into something the human eye can proceed. It's.

30:15 Incredible web is the most advanced technology, you know, and there is actually planning for another space telescope that will be even more powerful. That conversation's underway. I mean, it's very expensive, but you know, you're looking back 13 billion years with that infrared technology and it's helped us understand that there aren't hundreds of millions of other. Universes and galaxies, they're trillions. And so it suggests that space truly is limitless. It's just keeps going. And so now we're able to capture some of that imagery. And if you've not seen it, I really encourage you just to Google, you know James with Space Telescope and you see the pillars of creation and some of these other amazing black holes and the evolution of planets.

31:07 And I mean, this is also new. It's just been a couple of years. And, and it's completely changing our understanding of space and also challenging some theories of physics and affirming others. Um, so it's incredibly exciting. It is. We've had several guests on talking about specific elements of that, you know, looking for first light, essentially getting back as far back in time, close to the big bang as possible. We, we had Heino Fay on at one point talking about that image of the black hole they were able to take. That's not what web, but with other telescopes, we're learning so much more. But there's. More to be learned, obviously, and I'm, I'm excited about what the future holds.

31:47 And, and to that point, William, uh, I have a, a non easy question is how do we keep doing that? How do we keep innovating and maintain our leadership and space and space exploration? That's a huge question. Yes. Um, I definitely have my opinion about it, but I, I think we can hold on to our, our leadership if we continue to collaborate and innovate. We have to continue to invest even more so than we have in the past in learning and understand that we have to truly nurture that natural inquisitiveness critical thinking skills that we all possess as human beings and really embrace those. And you know, something that has been, I think Bemoaned for many years is the decline of the appreciation of basic science.

32:36 Because some of the greatest innovations and insights happened by accident, or they weren't the intent. So I think becoming overly focused on very specific outcomes and solutions can narrow your thinking. And so it's not bad that you're trying to come up with an answer to a question, but you have to be open to, to deviating from that path when something really provocative or interesting comes up and be willing to pursue that because life is so complex and interesting and we're. Understanding things at an ever more complicated, uh, that have ever more accelerated pace. We can't be conventional in our thinking, you know, we have to be open. So I think to me, it's how do we sustain the appreciation of being creative and innovative and then also, uh, with younger people, uh, encouraging them in particular to always ask questions.

33:30 I think I, you know, I look at our workforce now and what I say to my, my staff, I. At Space Center Houston is explore what interests you because it's not linear anymore. You don't get your degree in aeronautical engineering and just do the same job for 30 years and retire. It's really about how you can evolve yourself around your interests and passions to pursue questions in life. You're always gonna draw upon your experiences. Whatever they are, they're gonna contribute to who you are as a human being. And so it really value that. And then also understand that, well, no one likes to fail.

34:13 No one likes to trip up. That is just life. And when it happens, you know, really developing the maturity to, to step back and say, well, what, what can I learn from that? What can I take forward? That's gonna help me in some other way in my life. And so I think those are the, the things that I think are gonna be important for us, continue to be creative and innovative. And I don't discourage competition, but I think it should be in the spirit of who can come up with a great idea. And when someone else does celebrate it, you know, embrace that and don't view it as a failure on your behalf or some kind of a shortcoming.

34:55 Build on that knowledge and you know, really look at how you can advance that in some way that improves the quality of life for humanity. Well, William, I will say, I, I said that was a difficult question. You said it was a difficult question, but you gave a terrific answer to it, so that's probably, you really frame that out so well. I know they have a great leader there in you at Space Center Houston. Uh, what's next for Space Center Houston and, and where can our listeners go to learn more about what you're doing and how they can visit? We are in the position of continued growth and I think we kind of, our representation of the public's interest in space exploration and it's to me not an accident. We as human beings have always looked to the stars.

35:37 We've always used the stars for inspiration, for guidance to know when we should seed our crops, when we should harvest to navigate. It's a part of us. We are part of the universe, right? We are made of the stars. Now we can go there. And that is incredibly exciting, I think, to the public. And so it's been represented really in, in how we're, we're, our attendance just continues to grow here, and we've, we've exceeded the capacity of our building. So we're in the process. We've just approved a new, uh, facilities plan where we're going to change, we'll keep the historic, but we're really expanding our facility and adding new experiences.

36:19 And adding a lot of new programmatic content as well. But the best source to learn more about what we do is our website, which is space center.org org. 'cause that's where we post the latest and where you can learn about experiences or plan your visit. And then something I'm really committed to here is we actually have a phone number you can call that a human answers. And we'll help you plan your visit or understand the options of things that you can do here. Well, I am very excited about automated services and you know, generative AI and artificial intelligence and things of that nature. And we actually use those technologies here. We're still human beings.

37:00 I think it's really important that we have that human interface. So. We have a live operator if you call. Wow. Wow. And that number's on the website. It is very good. Very good. Well, William, I can't tell you how much I enjoyed our conversation. It's great to see you. Thank you so much for joining us on Amsi Cast. Thank you so much. It's really been fun speaking with you and look forward to hosting you on a visit. Thank you. Thank you for joining us on this episode of Amse Cast. For more information on this topic or any others, you can always visit us@amse.org or find like and follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter.

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