Future-Focused Research with Dr. David Sholl

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Welcome to AMSEcast, coming to you from Oak Ridge, Tennessee,

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a global leader in science, technology, and innovation.

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My name is Alan Lowe, director of the American Museum

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of Science and Energy, and the K-25 History Center.

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Each episode of AMSEcast presents world-renowned authors,

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scientists, historians, policymakers, and everyone in between,

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sharing their insights on a variety of fascinating topics.

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Welcome to AMSEcast.

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As we continue to celebrate 250 years of American innovation, it’s my

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real pleasure to welcome our guest on this episode, Dr. David Sholl.

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He’s joining us here in person at the American Museum of Science and Energy.

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David is the Executive Director and Vice Provost at the University

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of Tennessee Oak Ridge Innovation Institute, or UT-ORII.

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He brings to that important position a wealth of past

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experience, including serving as School Chair of Chemical and

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Biomolecular Engineering at Georgia Tech, and as portfolio

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strategy advisor for DOE’s Office of Clean Energy Demonstrations.

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David’s been widely published, he’s been recognized for with a of awards,

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and he was made a member of the National Academy of Engineering in 2024.

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I should note that in addition to his leadership at UT-ORII, he

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also leads ORNL’s Transformational Decarbonization Initiative.

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David, thanks so much for joining us at AMSEcast.

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Alan it’s great to be here.

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Great to see you here in person here at the museum.

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Let’s start with the basics, shall we?

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What is the mission of the University of Tennessee

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Oak Ridge Innovation Institute, or UT-ORII?

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Yeah, as the name suggests, it’s a joint initiative between the

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University of Tennessee system—so the University of Tennessee

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across the state, not just Knoxville—and Oak Ridge National Lab.

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And as many of your listeners know, Oak Ridge National

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Lab is the largest of DOE’s Office of Science labs.

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Just an amazing resource for the nation, but also for the state of Tennessee.

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There’s a really, really long history of partnership between

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the University of Tennessee and Oak Ridge, and really,

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UT-ORII’s mission is to continue that forward in many ways.

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And so, we really want to make both institutions

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better by having them work together.

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So, a real bridge, a real conduit with

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those two huge and important institutions.

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I was curious, how do you work—you know, at one point, eons ago,

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I was the first director of the Howard Baker Center, now the

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Baker School at UT. I know they have that and the Bredesen Center.

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How do you work with those other centers

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there and with the other departments at UT?

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Yeah, so one of the things that we’ve done, UT-ORII has actually

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sort of brought together some of those existing connection points.

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You mentioned the Bredesen Center, so that’s now part of UT-ORII.

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Oh, I see.

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The Bredesen Center is, you know, an amazing

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program, I mean, really a model across the nation.

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It’s a set of three PhD programs where the students come

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to UT, they’re UT students, they get a UT degree, but they

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can do their PhD research with staff scientists at ORNL.

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And I will tell you, when I go and visit other national labs, they are very,

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very jealous of that, but it’s—but to me, that’s a great example of the synergy

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between the two institutions because it brings wonderful things to UT in

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terms of what those students do, but there’s also a huge benefit to ORNL of

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having those bright, energetic young students be part of our research mission.

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You know, Lee Riedinger is on our board of directors at AMSE Foundation, and

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he is among the authors—the main author—of the book, Critical Connections.

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He’s talking about that whole UT-Battelle-Oak Ridge National Lab connection.

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It’s phenomenal to see how you have these two really good, great institutions,

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you bring them together, and it’s out of this world what they can accomplish.

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And you’re right in the middle of that.

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Yeah, and I think, I mean, Lee’s book actually is a remarkable

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example of that, that if you look back in UT’s history, the first

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science graduate programs that UT came about to serve people at

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the Oak Ridge National La—what is now the Oak Ridge National Lab.

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It had previous names, of course.

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But as you said, that history of the connection between the two

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really goes back to the beginning of the National Lab Complex here.

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What are some of the areas of focus you have?

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What kind of research and issues are you undertaking?

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So, we’ve selected five areas that are both areas of national

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need, there are things where Tennessee can be a leader, and

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there are places where the two institutions can work together.

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So, those five things are: transportation and logistics; materials for

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fusion energy; radioisotopes for pharmaceuticals, so that’s treating

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cancer with radioisotopes; circular bioeconomy materials, so looking

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at agricultural products that can be put into value-added products;

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and then materials and methods for affordable housing construction.

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All very important and all extraordinarily fascinating.

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I could talk to you for hours on [laugh] each—

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Right, right.

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Particularly as a fellow who grew up on a farm, and

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I’d love to hear the value-added with the bioeconomy.

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So—and in fusion.

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I mean, that’s amazing that we’re getting as close as we are to fusion with

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the work going on at ORNL and of course with Type One coming out of Oak Ridge.

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All these things, really, really interesting time in that arena as well.

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So, you do this research and you’re connecting then

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University of Tennessee with Oak Ridge National Lab.

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How does that connection work?

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And I don’t know if I’m getting to in the weeds here, but when you go over, do

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you say to the lab, we have a student interested in this, or how does that work?

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So, for these research initiatives—well, in fact, I’ll

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back up and I’ll say that UT-ORII has received extremely

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generous financial support from the state of Tennessee.

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And so, we have state funds that enable

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us to hire researchers at the university.

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So, part of these research initiatives is hiring PhD-level researchers

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at the university who, you know, really drive forward this research.

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And then the lab has committed some of its resources, as it’s

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able to do, where we hire new staff members at the laboratory.

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So, in each of these research areas, we now have a cohort of

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new researchers who’ve come to the area who really drive energy.

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They then couple with existing experts both at the lab and with UT. And

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so, the idea is that with the seed money that we put into these initiatives

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that we really create this, you know, vibrant cohort of researchers that can

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develop their ideas and then eventually become self-sustaining and bring in

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the funding that, of course, they’ll need to sustain that effort in the future.

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Sure.

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I assume going down the road, these are important topics.

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Are they flexible topics?

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Are there’s something you see in, you know, five or ten years you’re

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adding this or subtracting that from those topics you’re focusing on?

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As we were selecting these topics, we went through a very competitive

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process within the two institutions of people proposing ideas.

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One of the things that we wanted to look at was, do we think these are

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topics that will be, still, very, very important five to ten years from now?

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And so, I’ll take material for fusion energy as an example, right?

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That’s something that we hope in five to ten

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years, as a country, we’ve made amazing progress.

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It clearly will not be a solved problem and

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it will still be a highly interesting problem.

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And I think most of these topics are like that.

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They’re things that we see have very long-term tracks that people can run on.

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But also, as I said, these are places where we really want

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Tennessee and East Tennessee to be true global leaders

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in these areas, not just one of many that does them.

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So, I’m curious, as you’re talking, I know over the last five years, almost

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six years since I’ve been here, which is amazing for me to say out loud,

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we’ve met with other groups who are with, like Innovation Crossroads and

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those types of organizations looking at specific ways of promoting innovation.

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Do you work with them?

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How do they fit into this atmosphere of innovation?

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Yes, so Dan Miller, who runs Innovation Crossroads, I

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hosted some visitors with him the other day at the lab.

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I agree.

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That’s an imp—one of the things that we really want to

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show, especially with this state investment, is a return on

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investment to the state’s taxpayers as we do these things.

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That’s a big thing.

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And so, part of that is just that we’re bringing these brilliant PhD

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researchers—you know, there’s an influx of research dollars—but also ultimately,

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we’d like to have an economic growth within the state within these areas.

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And so then, you know, working with folks like Innovation Crossroads, all of the

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entrepreneurial things that happen at the university, and just sort of working

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broadly with folks within the state, we want to grow those things over time.

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You work with the state.

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Obviously, they’re a big supporter.

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Are there other federal entities or businesses

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that you’re working with at this point?

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Yeah.

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So, obviously being part of the DOE system that, you know, we work closely

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with the, you know, the various parts of the DOE that would fund these

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things and try and align ourselves with those national priorities as well.

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So again, that was part of choosing these topics of thinking

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these areas are true national need, but also where we think we can

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drive, you know, ultimately economic growth in this region as well.

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So, I’m always curious, we try to look at best practices here,

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and when this was being put together, did you say this is a

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model we want to replicate, or are now people looking at you

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saying this is something we want to replicate across the country?

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Well, we certainly hope that we can be a model for other national labs.

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I, in fact, was at Sandia National Lab just last week, talking to their

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folks, and it’s very useful for us to exchange information like that.

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I do think that we found that the Bradison Center as an educational program

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really is something that’s an admired model elsewhere around the country.

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We of course do look to other universities and to other labs

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to understand what they’re doing, but I think there’s a number

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of things that we’re doing that are really rather unusual,

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and so we’re sort of laying a trail in terms of doing that.

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Oak Ridge is always unique, leading the way.

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Yeah, we’re trying to.

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That’s right [laugh]

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.
We work with a lot of kids here, a lot of students coming in, all ages.

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My favorite part of this job is seeing how we can be

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a positive influence with them and STEM and STEAM.

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What do you think, as we work with them, what’s the best practice or among

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the best practices, for inspiring this innovative mindset that we want

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them to have walking out the door and as they go into the adult world?

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Yeah, that’s a great question.

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I think that—and I’m sure you do this very effectively—it’s just to show

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them how science and technology actually influences their everyday life.

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And you and I are old enough to look at a lot of the

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technology we have and to realize this is all new to us, right?

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But for children today, they’re just immersed in it and they don’t.

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So, I think that’s maybe—and I’m sure it’s a challenge you’ve thought about

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very carefully—is just how to get all of our kids, regardless of what they’ll

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do in the future, just understand the influence of science and technology.

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Very much so.

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I think part of what I’ve said educators here, and will continue to say,

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is we need to be part of that STEM and STEAM education for those kids who

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want to be in some way in that world, workforce development and that type of

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thing, but also I want, if a kid comes in here and he wants to be—or he or

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she—wants to be a poet, that they at least have this grounding in science and

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engineering and technology, that they understand the world around them better.

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And you’re right, I grew up on a farm in Kentucky, again I’ll

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say that, and I would have loved to have had the internet, a

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cell phone, all these things we have now that people take for

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granted that are revolutionary, really, in how our world works.

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I’m going to go from kids to the nation.

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So, I’m going to increase the challenge to you, David.

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So, 250 years.

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You look at American history, it’s pretty phenomenal of how

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we’ve led an innovation, I’m not putting down our friends across

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the world, but my goodness, our history is pretty phenomenal.

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How do we keep that leadership role and innovation for the next, maybe 250

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years is too long, but for the foreseeable future, how do we keep that edge?

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Actually, I think my answer is similar to what you asked about

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our kids today, which is that the more that everybody in our

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nation appreciates what a national treasure our innovation

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approaches and ecosystems are, that’s the goal to keeping it going.

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I think there’s a real risk that because we’re in a country that is

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so technology advanced that we don’t realize the advantages we have

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compared to many places in the world, that we take it for granted.

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And I myself tend to do that, right?

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So, I think that’s probably a challenge.

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I think there’s a real challenge, and you think about

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science and technology writ large, that we don’t truly know

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where the big innovations will come from in the future.

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And so, one of the real strengths historically, I think, in

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the US, certainly since the 1950s, has been very broad-based

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investment in R&D, trusting that that will bear fruit in the future.

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And so, you know, my personal hope is that

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we’ll continue to do that as a nation.

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And do worry about that of having such a specific focus in some areas

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that you’re missing the opportunities that basic R&D will provide that

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you don’t know right now, this new area that would open up for our future.

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I’ll add though, at the same time because we talked about Innovation

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Crossroads and entrepreneurs who take ideas to market and so on, my experience

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working in academic engineering, and now at the National Lab, is there is

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huge value in active researchers being in contact with real world problems.

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It doesn’t mean everyone has to work on that on next year’s problem.

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There’s always some give and take, and I think that’s an

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important thing for everybody in the research realm to do.

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I think there’s room and a need for both.

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I think, absolutely.

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I’m going to put this in as an old history major, too, of saying,

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I think it’s important to know how we’ve gotten from there to here.

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And you understand that process better, then you

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understand how to get into the future better.

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It certainly gives you that perspective, that understanding.

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I’m sure our listeners will want to learn more about UT-ORII work.

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Can they go online to learn more about what you’re doing?

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Yeah, so our website is simple.

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It’s UT-ORII.com, and it has an overview of all of our

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programs, and ways to contact us if they’d like to do that.

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Doing great things.

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Thanks so much for talking to us on AMSEcast.

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I appreciate it.

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Great pleasure.

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Thank you.

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Thank you for joining us on this episode of AMSEcast.

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For more information on this topic or any others, you can always visit us at

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AMSE.org or find, like, and follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter.

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I invite you to visit the American Museum of Science

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and Energy and the K-25 History Center in person.

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You can also shop at our online store and become a member at AMSE.org.

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Thanks to our production team with Matt Mullins, plus our supportive colleagues

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at the Department of Energy’s Office of Science, Office of Environmental

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Management, and Office of Legacy Management, as well as Oak Ridge National

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Laboratory, the Y-12 National Security Complex, NNSA, and the AMSE Foundation.

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And of course, thanks to our wonderful guests

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today, and to all of you for listening.

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I hope you’ll join us for the next episode of AMSEcast.

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becoming a member of the 117 Society, the newest membership opportunity

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By joining the 117 Society, you will help us continue

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