Sept. 29, 2025

062 - John Palisano Talks Space Horror and Requiem

062 - John Palisano Talks Space Horror and Requiem
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Weird Reads welcomes Bram Stoker Award–winning author John Palisano! In this episode, we delve into the worlds of science, space, and Gothic space horror, exploring what scared us as kids, how music shapes who we are, and why it’s so essential to the human experience. We unpack the themes and philosophy behind his latest novel, Requiem, and cover so much more along the way. This conversation was truly fascinating, and I think you’ll love it!

Authors Mentioned:
Lisa Morton
Jenny Kiefer
Katherine McGee
Polly Schattel

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Intro music created by DudeAwesome from Freesound.
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WEBVTT

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Hello, and welcome to the Weird Reads podcast. I'm Jason White,

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your host, and today I have somebody I've talked to before,

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but we'll get into that in a minute. John Pallisano

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joins me today is a Stoker Award winning author. He

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is the former vice president and president of the h

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w A and a fantastic writer of such stories as Ghosttheart, Nerves,

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Place Arita, which he co authored with Lisa Morton, to

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Try Not to Die series, and recently which we're here

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to talk about, mostly Requiem. Welcome to the show, John.

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Cool, Thank you. It's great to be here.

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Seriously, so yeah, I want to I want to thank

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you for coming on. We we've we haven't talked in

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like eight years. I don't I don't know if you remember,

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but we talked around twenty seventeen on my old podcast,

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the Darkness Dwells podcast. But first we chatted on the

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Great Lakes Horror Company podcast, which I did some interview

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work for. How have you been since then? Man, it's

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been quite a ride for you since then.

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Yeah, it's been a lot has happened in those years.

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I think that, you know, my personal life has done

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really there's some amazing things that have happened. You know,

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my son has grown up and now just started college

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just a few weeks ago, and he's carrying the storytelling

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torch forward.

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At School of Visual Arts in New York awesome.

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Which is where my dad went, which is weird, but

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really really to me, that's a huge, huge thing that

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went down. I moved from Los Angeles to Kentucky this

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year as well, so to me, there's a lot that's

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going on. And I was in the HWA and now

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I'm not. So I think that that's another big change.

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I've been focusing in on that with all that time

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on my my, my writing, my work. So I think

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it's there's a lot of really good, positive changes that

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have been taking place. So thank you.

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That's great. I know you're close with your son, just

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from like fate watching you on Facebook and whatnot. Was

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it I know it was different. This is a dumb

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question if I say was it hard, because I know

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it was hard. How did you deal with, you know,

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this change where he's off to college.

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You know, it was really nerve wracking. And then on

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our last night in New York, we went to Times Square.

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He wanted to see Times Square and when we went there,

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he said, can we just go look at the Stranger

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Things play the facade, And because we had talked about going,

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but the tickets were so expensive, I said, maybe we'll

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once you get settled, we'll figure that out. And I

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remembered I grew up going to New York, and I remembered, hey,

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you know, before showtime you go up to the box

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office see if they have any last minute seats. And

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I said, well, this show is at seven, it's six

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thirty five. I said, why don't we go check the

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box office just in case, and we did and they

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had two tickets for thirty bucks, and I was like,

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this is cheaper than the dinner we were going to

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go have. And we were huge Stranger Things fans because

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he grew up. He's the same age as those kids

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and so grow every season.

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You know.

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It was just crazy watching that and now they're graduated

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and going to college too, like him, So it was amazing.

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And we we had tickets up in the balcony and

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which was nice. And they told me at the box

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office they actually liked those tickets because you could see

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everything better. And I was a little taken aback because

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as when I sat down. They told me it was

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a three hour show, and I was like, oh my god,

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I'm falling on my face. You know. It's like I

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don't know if I'm gonna make it through this. And

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then that theme hit and the logo came out and

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it was like concert level and I was just like,

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oh man, and I looked at him. I said, you

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know what, We're okay. You're gonna be okay here. You know,

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you have stranger things, you know, here you have your

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you know. And he started meeting with with people there

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and clicking with them right away, and I felt, this

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is great. And it's not the New York that I

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grew up with, where Times Square was ce theaters and

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the and the village was filled with you know, a

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lot of very questionable people. I mean, it's so it's

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so gentrified now that I was like, this is like

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a big mall, and it's still dangerous. There's still places

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not you know, you have to city after all. But

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I felt so much better after that. I was like,

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you know what, I think he's going to be okay.

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I think it's going to be okay. I'm going to

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be really poor for four years, but he's going to

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be okay.

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That's good. So the play was good because I've heard

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about it.

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I have to say, in this day and age where

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we're so used to be watching TV show and everything

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is like, oh, it's CG. You know, every little thing like, oh,

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that's CG. They did it in CG. Even the stunts

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you question half the time if it's CG or not

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or supplemented. And then to see these effects that they

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were doing. I don't want to give too much away,

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but it was like seeing CG effects in real life.

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And you couldn't see the strings, and you couldn't see

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the computers. I don't know how some they did some

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of the things they did, and it was right in

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your face, and I'm looking around, going where's the where's

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the wires, where's the where's the special effect, where's the projector?

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I couldn't see any of that, and it was such

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a nice feeling. I haven't had that feeling, you know,

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from a from a from a project or a movie

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or a TV show since I was a little kid.

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It was like pure magic. To see it like right

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in your face like that. It was like really cool

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and and the story was interesting. It was different, and

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they tied it into the original show, and if you're

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a Stranger Things fan, go see. I don't want to

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give anything away, but that the last couple of minutes,

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everybody was up and they were freaking out and people

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were dressed up like Stranger Things and stuff. It was

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really cool. I definitely if you can go. If anybody

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sees this, go and if I know, they're going to

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probably tore it, so definitely go check it out.

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Yeah. I would love it if they came to Toronto.

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I'm a huge I'm a huge Stranger Things fan, both

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me and my wife. I'd love to get my son

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into it, but right now he's kind of squeamish about horror.

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Really.

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Yeah, well I was too, like I think he gets

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that well. I guess that from both his mom and dad.

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But I was. I was really afraid of anything, like

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even the Incredible Hulk. I grew up with that TV show,

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and anytime his eyes turned green, I was out of there.

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Man, like the Bill Vick speed. Oh, you know that

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those shows were really scary back then. I mean, and

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do you remember, if we're pretty much the same age,

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then do you remember In Search of with Leonard Nimoy

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that was on around the same time.

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I think I watched a little bit of that, but

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not too much.

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That scared the heck out of me too. And I

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saw one recently and I'm like, this is not even scary,

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but they had like that, Oh, the yetti is in

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the woods of you know, Portland, Oregon, and I'd be like,

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oh my god, the yetti's gonna get me. I'm seeing

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the yetti everywhere and I see it now, I'm like,

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this is so corny. You're like, dude, this wasn't scary

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at all. Yeah, like the monster, you know, Like, but

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you know, it's it's interesting when you're little, like these

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things seem like big.

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Yeah, it's the whole. When I was little, the whole

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world was just absolutely huge, and I felt like a

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you know, a grain of sand, Like I get dizzy

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looking up at tall high rises and sure, and I

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remember my mom pointing out a high school saying you're

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gonna go there one day, and I was just like

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mortified because it was this giant ass building.

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You're like, I don't know if I can hang with that, Mom.

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You know, I don't know if I can do this.

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But you know, as you get bigger, those fears go away. Yeah,

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oh man, But you know, we're talking about our childhood here.

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I know that, and I'm a big fan of origin stories,

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especially when it comes to horror. But I know yours already.

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Your dad once let you stay up late at night

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and you guys watched a Night of the Living Dead.

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I was wondering, was that a stepping stone for your

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future as an author?

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I think definitely. That summer was huge for me, and

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seeing that movie it was so it was so mind

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blowing to me because before then everything was like Star

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Wars and Greece and you know, it was really kind

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of you know nice, Let's be honest, it wasn't like

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a and to see this movie and I don't think

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it's a spoiler now to give away the ending, No

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where a it's a black guy, which I thought was

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really cool, and I thought like at the end, just

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the irony that he gets shot at the end, And

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it wasn't lost on me because we were learning about

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the civil rights movement at school, so all the imagery

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at the end with the hangings and stuff and then

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him getting killed, it just I couldn't quite process it

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at that age. But it hit me at such a

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profound level, like you can tell stories like this as

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you know, it's not just all make believe. You can

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comment on the world. And it just stuck with me

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and haunted me, and I thought, wow, this is something else.

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And then and then and then I saw Alien soon

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after at the drive in, and that was like the

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the double whammy. And I loved the artistry and I

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loved the you know, the the acting. And Ripley looked

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like my mom, which was weird because I thought this

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this she's tough like my mom, and she she's fighting

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the aliens like my mom. And I thought this is

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really cool, Like and she's she's the main person, which

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we I hadn't seen before, female tough lead that wasn't

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a sex object. I was just like, she's just a

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bad ass, you know, and she's cool and she's in

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charge and it and and and I was terrified at

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the same time, which was something I was really working through.

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It scared me but intrigued me so much. And I

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I think those two, those two properties really cemented me

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on wanting to get involved in you know, the dark arts.

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You know.

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Yeah, I have a I have a funny story about Alien.

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I was like too young to see it. But there's

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one scene what's the name of the android in that movie?

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Again that's yeah, that's Aliens. Yeah, that's an Aliens. But

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the one yeah, an Alien. Well, anyways, it involves that

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we're visiting ash Ash. That's it. We're visiting a friend

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that we often visited, me and my grand my, mom,

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my grandma and me, and we always went over to

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her house because she was alone, her husband had passed away,

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and we always went like on Tuesday nights or whatever.

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And they, because I was like five or six, they

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they'd always place me in front of the television in

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the bedroom so that I pretty much stayed out of

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their hair. Right. So they're looking through the TV guide

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and they're like, oh, look, Alien, this has got to

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be a nice little movie for a kid, right, And

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so they plopped me down in front of that and

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that scene with Ash where he loses it and he's

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got the rolled up newspaper or magazine and he's stuffing

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it in Ripley's mouth and then the guy comes up

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behind him and smacks his head off, and his head's

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hanging on like a thread on his back and he's

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spinning around and all this white stuff is flying out

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of it. I freaked out. I was like, Ah, they

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all come in, they're like, oh my god, we're so sorry.

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Wrong movie. Wrong movie.

226
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Well yeah, I mean that's a traumatizing movie on so

227
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many else it's not expose to it. And you know,

228
00:11:37.960 --> 00:11:40.799
just a chest burster scene and oh my gosh, so

229
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much and the acid for blood. Yeah, I mean, it's

230
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just it's just relentless.

231
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Yeah, it's brilliant. And we're going to talk about that again.

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So I'm going to put a hold on that for

233
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right now. But I want to go back to you

234
00:11:54.200 --> 00:11:56.639
being a kid. I want to know which horror books

235
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did you first read.

236
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I started with Stephen King, like everybody my age, and

237
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I loved it, with Carrie and all the classics, the

238
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Shining I loved them. I devoured them, read them multiple times,

239
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to the point where I was made fun of and

240
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bullied at school. They called me Kujo because I thought

241
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I was rabid, and you know, I was always had

242
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a Stephen King book with me or something, and you know,

243
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but that's okay, could be worse, right, And I really

244
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I fell in love with his books. And then very

245
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quickly my parents seeing that i'd love to read. My

246
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mother came in and she said, you got to read

247
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this book. It was Interview with the Vampire by Anne Rice,

248
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and I read that and I loved Anne Rice. And

249
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then I discovered soon after Clive Barker in the Books

250
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of Blood. And I was probably twelve or thirteen at

251
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this time and definitely reading stuff I shouldn't have been

252
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reading at that age, I guess. But yeah, you know,

253
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I mean, especially Clive was there so visceral and so gross,

254
00:12:57.240 --> 00:13:02.519
and you know, but they all like formed this amazing

255
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you know, permission to be imaginative. And I think that

256
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was really the key thing. And you know, I got

257
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into all kinds after that. You know. Stephen King said

258
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something brilliant in an interview because of course I wanted

259
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to be a writer or make up guy or whatever

260
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I could be to be involved in creating stuff. And

261
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he had said, read outside of your genre. Don't just

262
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read me, don't just read this. I saw, oh, that's

263
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probably a good idea, I thought. So it's my library.

264
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I said, hey, I've been reading Stephen King and stuff.

265
00:13:34.120 --> 00:13:36.639
What can I read in the library and handed me

266
00:13:36.759 --> 00:13:42.440
The Grapes Wrath by John Steinbeck, and I, oh, it's brilliant,

267
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brilliant stuff. And I just I just then started going

268
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and getting all the classics, and we were reading stuff

269
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in school, like we were reading we had to read,

270
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you know, Lord of the Flies, which to me is

271
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one of the scariest, another terrifying book. How are they

272
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giving this to thirteen year old kids. It's brutal and

273
00:14:03.679 --> 00:14:07.240
it scared the hell out of me almost as much

274
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as Stephen King or anybody just they were so cruel

275
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to each other and the killing each other, and oh

276
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my god. Right, And so I think that, you know,

277
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I just fell I fell in love with what the

278
00:14:16.919 --> 00:14:20.399
written word could do around that age, not just in horror,

279
00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:24.080
but but in general. And I think that I think

280
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that that was really a very formative time. And I

281
00:14:26.320 --> 00:14:29.159
feel very lucky looking back that, you know, we had

282
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those those opportunities and all those books available, and nobody

283
00:14:32.919 --> 00:14:35.799
ever told me not to read anything, which is amazing.

284
00:14:35.840 --> 00:14:38.600
Nobody warned me. They just said, Okay, if you want

285
00:14:38.639 --> 00:14:41.039
to read this, try this, and then they just tell

286
00:14:41.039 --> 00:14:43.759
me what you think after. And I think that I

287
00:14:43.840 --> 00:14:45.840
was very lucky in that regard. And I know that

288
00:14:45.840 --> 00:14:48.799
there's a lot of movements now going back and forth

289
00:14:48.840 --> 00:14:50.840
like should we or shouldn't we let kids read this stuff?

290
00:14:51.279 --> 00:14:53.399
But I really think that kids are smart.

291
00:14:53.919 --> 00:14:54.720
Yeah, I think that.

292
00:14:54.799 --> 00:14:57.279
I think by twelve or thirteen, they kind of have

293
00:14:57.360 --> 00:15:00.080
a very good idea most kids emotionally of where the

294
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world is and what people are capable of and not

295
00:15:02.159 --> 00:15:05.320
capable of. And I think they're curious to explore those stories.

296
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I think it's healthy to see them in a book

297
00:15:08.440 --> 00:15:11.440
or a movie versus in real life. I think they

298
00:15:11.440 --> 00:15:14.679
can see that and kind of start making conclusions and

299
00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:19.000
building their own set of ethics. And I think that's

300
00:15:19.559 --> 00:15:21.320
an invaluable and valuable thing.

301
00:15:21.840 --> 00:15:23.960
Yeah. I mean too, I started reading books a little

302
00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:26.879
too early, like horror books and whatnot too, But you

303
00:15:26.919 --> 00:15:30.759
know it didn't ruin me. It just if anything, it

304
00:15:30.799 --> 00:15:33.960
helped me develop a better sense of empathy, I think.

305
00:15:34.720 --> 00:15:37.840
And I think the books that they're trying to ban,

306
00:15:38.879 --> 00:15:40.679
so they're trying to do it in Canada too, not

307
00:15:40.840 --> 00:15:46.000
everywhere but Alberta and Saskatchewan. And that's the completely worst

308
00:15:46.039 --> 00:15:48.000
thing you can do. And I'll argue for anyone who

309
00:15:48.080 --> 00:15:52.039
wants to also ban books like mind comf you can't

310
00:15:52.399 --> 00:15:54.720
I understand why you'd want to do that, but you

311
00:15:54.759 --> 00:15:59.960
can't do it because it's educational.

312
00:16:01.080 --> 00:16:04.679
Yeah, and I think you're amplifying those books in a

313
00:16:04.679 --> 00:16:09.159
way that is unintentional. You know, there was there was

314
00:16:09.200 --> 00:16:11.039
a few books we weren't supposed to have when I

315
00:16:11.120 --> 00:16:13.279
was a kid. One of them was the Satanic Bible.

316
00:16:13.320 --> 00:16:16.039
Everyone's talking about the Satanic Bible and the Anarchist Cookbook,

317
00:16:16.799 --> 00:16:18.960
and I remember I found a copy of the Satanic

318
00:16:19.000 --> 00:16:22.200
Bible in the back of a used bookstore and I

319
00:16:22.320 --> 00:16:25.480
bought it. It was this paperback thing, and then I started

320
00:16:25.519 --> 00:16:28.240
reading it and I realized, like, this is dumb. This

321
00:16:28.399 --> 00:16:33.000
is just like Christian stuff flipped around and putting a

322
00:16:33.000 --> 00:16:35.320
goat on the alternate naked girl instead of you know,

323
00:16:35.360 --> 00:16:38.919
the Eucharist. I'm like, this isn't I I wanted to

324
00:16:38.960 --> 00:16:41.679
see spells and a guide map to Hell and all this,

325
00:16:42.399 --> 00:16:44.360
and I'm like, there's nothing in this. This is this

326
00:16:44.399 --> 00:16:46.600
is kind of silly and goofy. This is like a

327
00:16:46.639 --> 00:16:49.759
hammer movie come to life. And I was like, okay, whatever,

328
00:16:50.080 --> 00:16:52.720
you know, so and and and I think that, but

329
00:16:52.919 --> 00:16:56.679
you have that that title the Satanic Bible. You know,

330
00:16:56.840 --> 00:17:00.279
you're just like, oh, it's it's Forbidden Fruit, you know,

331
00:17:00.480 --> 00:17:04.720
and it it's often not as as as cool as

332
00:17:04.759 --> 00:17:07.079
you think. And and same with the anarchist cookbook. You think, oh,

333
00:17:07.079 --> 00:17:09.480
I'm going to blow up buildings and learn how to

334
00:17:09.519 --> 00:17:12.000
do all this stuff and take over the world, and

335
00:17:12.039 --> 00:17:13.920
it's more like, how do you build a bomb in

336
00:17:13.960 --> 00:17:16.279
an old can that you know will blow up a badger?

337
00:17:16.319 --> 00:17:19.519
I'm like, there's something. I'm like, who's going to do this? This?

338
00:17:19.519 --> 00:17:22.640
This is stupid? You know, how to poison mice? I'm like,

339
00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:25.039
you know, really just.

340
00:17:25.079 --> 00:17:27.200
Like you can go to the story and do that.

341
00:17:27.279 --> 00:17:32.599
But right, but yeah, my friends wanted to get a

342
00:17:32.640 --> 00:17:34.599
copy of that because they wanted to learn how to

343
00:17:34.640 --> 00:17:38.799
make LSD. I don't think it ever panned out, but.

344
00:17:39.359 --> 00:17:41.559
Yeah, it's like they got they got a stomach ache

345
00:17:41.599 --> 00:17:43.279
and a headache for three days and then you know,

346
00:17:43.400 --> 00:17:45.240
get back to life, right. I know. A lot of

347
00:17:45.240 --> 00:17:50.119
that stuff is you're it's silly, you know, yeah, but yeah,

348
00:17:50.119 --> 00:17:52.240
I think that. You know, It's same with fictional books.

349
00:17:52.319 --> 00:17:54.759
I think the worst thing you can tell somebody is

350
00:17:54.759 --> 00:17:55.519
don't read a book.

351
00:17:56.039 --> 00:17:59.160
Mm hmm. You know, and that creates the curiosity like

352
00:17:59.200 --> 00:17:59.680
oh why not?

353
00:17:59.799 --> 00:18:02.680
You know, yeah, you know, I don't think it's you know,

354
00:18:02.680 --> 00:18:04.680
they're they're, oh, it might make you gay or turn

355
00:18:04.759 --> 00:18:07.119
into you know, want to be a girl or a girl,

356
00:18:07.160 --> 00:18:09.440
want to be a guy or whatever. But you know,

357
00:18:09.759 --> 00:18:13.599
I'm having known many people on that in that in

358
00:18:13.640 --> 00:18:16.839
that path. There, it's already in there. The book is

359
00:18:16.880 --> 00:18:18.960
that it's not like it's it's something that's not there.

360
00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:20.480
And you read a book and suddenly they put the

361
00:18:20.519 --> 00:18:23.279
seed in you and suddenly, oh my god, I read

362
00:18:23.319 --> 00:18:25.559
a book and now I'm I'm gay. Now suddenly I

363
00:18:25.880 --> 00:18:27.599
now that the book made me gay. I'm gay.

364
00:18:27.680 --> 00:18:30.759
It's like, no, it doesn't work that way. No, it doesn't.

365
00:18:31.400 --> 00:18:33.400
And that's ridiculous to think otherwise.

366
00:18:34.200 --> 00:18:36.720
And I think that actually, you know, people should read

367
00:18:37.440 --> 00:18:40.119
you know, gay stories, queer story, straights or whatever, you know,

368
00:18:40.720 --> 00:18:43.680
whatever you're not predisposed to. I think it gives you empathy,

369
00:18:43.680 --> 00:18:46.839
it gives you perspective, it gives you a great knowledge

370
00:18:46.880 --> 00:18:50.400
of life and humanity. I mean, humanity is beautiful, it's amazing,

371
00:18:50.440 --> 00:18:54.160
and it's it's it's the differences are are just phenomenal.

372
00:18:55.039 --> 00:18:57.400
I think about this sometimes, Like I was watching a

373
00:18:57.400 --> 00:19:00.559
show the other night and I just was thinking, like

374
00:19:00.640 --> 00:19:03.720
it's amazing how many different languages we have developed over

375
00:19:03.720 --> 00:19:06.119
the world, like and I just think, like, how did

376
00:19:06.119 --> 00:19:08.640
these even begin? Like you're in the middle of this country,

377
00:19:08.680 --> 00:19:12.079
and then these languages developed over centuries and thousands of years,

378
00:19:12.119 --> 00:19:15.000
but they're all different. It's unbelievable to me if you

379
00:19:15.039 --> 00:19:17.640
think about, like like the way humans have adapted and

380
00:19:17.720 --> 00:19:20.799
learned to communicate like that, it just blows my mind.

381
00:19:21.039 --> 00:19:24.400
And I think it's so cool that we're all different

382
00:19:24.400 --> 00:19:29.680
and have different perspectives. I don't understand, you know, not

383
00:19:29.799 --> 00:19:32.160
thinking that's interesting. I don't understand that.

384
00:19:32.599 --> 00:19:36.160
Yeah, I don't get it either does not compute because

385
00:19:36.200 --> 00:19:38.799
it's interesting learning about how other I mean, that's why

386
00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:42.200
one reason why I read is to try to get

387
00:19:42.200 --> 00:19:46.559
a grasp on another point of view, you know, aside

388
00:19:46.559 --> 00:19:50.599
from entertainment and an escapism. But it's interesting to learn,

389
00:19:51.000 --> 00:19:54.039
like when you're reading a translated work or whatever what

390
00:19:54.319 --> 00:19:57.640
the other because you find similarities too, and that's interesting.

391
00:19:58.759 --> 00:20:01.440
Yeah, yeah, I think I think there. That's one of

392
00:20:01.480 --> 00:20:03.400
the great things you find is there are so much

393
00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:09.359
common ground between people. You know, we all want basic things.

394
00:20:09.400 --> 00:20:11.640
We want companionship, we want to be loved, we want

395
00:20:11.640 --> 00:20:14.319
to love you know, we want fulfillment, We want to

396
00:20:14.640 --> 00:20:18.799
do work that means something, And I think those are universals,

397
00:20:19.160 --> 00:20:21.200
you know, And it doesn't matter you know, who you

398
00:20:21.240 --> 00:20:23.559
fall in love with, or who you sleep with, you know,

399
00:20:24.079 --> 00:20:27.039
or what diet you have, you know. I think that

400
00:20:27.160 --> 00:20:29.160
I think those are things that we can all relate to.

401
00:20:29.319 --> 00:20:31.839
And I think that's one of the great things you

402
00:20:32.000 --> 00:20:35.880
learn when you're reading. You know. I took an amazing

403
00:20:35.880 --> 00:20:40.039
class on the world's religions in college, and one of

404
00:20:40.119 --> 00:20:44.640
the most amazing things was seeing how similar religions were,

405
00:20:44.680 --> 00:20:47.160
even once that had been fighting and killing each other

406
00:20:47.200 --> 00:20:50.079
for years. You realize there's so much that's the same.

407
00:20:50.559 --> 00:20:53.119
And we even one of our exercises was like doing that.

408
00:20:53.160 --> 00:20:54.640
We put on the board, what are the tenets of

409
00:20:54.680 --> 00:20:58.400
these religions? And so many lined up. It was crazy

410
00:20:58.559 --> 00:21:00.319
and it blew my mind because I thought out like

411
00:21:00.319 --> 00:21:05.640
there was such different ideologies, but they're not. There's so many,

412
00:21:05.880 --> 00:21:08.680
so many similarities. And again it's what what are people

413
00:21:08.759 --> 00:21:11.799
looking for to nourish their spirit? You know, there's there's

414
00:21:11.839 --> 00:21:14.799
there's universal, universal needs with that.

415
00:21:15.359 --> 00:21:19.880
So it's it's cool that that stuff absolutely blows my

416
00:21:19.920 --> 00:21:23.039
mind too. That could be a show on itself because

417
00:21:23.119 --> 00:21:28.400
most most religions preach peace and loving your neighbor and

418
00:21:28.559 --> 00:21:33.680
uh and trying to understand them instead of discriminating. Uh.

419
00:21:33.839 --> 00:21:36.559
If you go into almost every religion, that's what their

420
00:21:36.920 --> 00:21:42.559
tenets basically are. And but people in power tend to

421
00:21:42.680 --> 00:21:46.440
use that and to warp it into something else. And

422
00:21:46.480 --> 00:21:49.359
I find that interesting too, because people just fall for it.

423
00:21:49.640 --> 00:21:53.599
And it's not just like in America. It's everywhere. It's

424
00:21:53.640 --> 00:21:57.119
it's absolutely everywhere. And it's not just Christianity either, even

425
00:21:57.240 --> 00:22:02.119
like more peaceful religions like Buddhism have been used, uh

426
00:22:02.480 --> 00:22:02.880
like that.

427
00:22:02.960 --> 00:22:07.359
So absolutely, and that's that's another phenomena. That's that's really

428
00:22:08.039 --> 00:22:09.960
you know, I don't know, you know, we could we

429
00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:11.920
could really get into that, but I you know, it's

430
00:22:12.039 --> 00:22:16.440
just that's pretty mind blowing too. I don't think, you know,

431
00:22:16.799 --> 00:22:20.119
maybe it's up to power and ego, and you know,

432
00:22:20.759 --> 00:22:22.960
there's a fulfillment there for those who are trying to

433
00:22:22.960 --> 00:22:25.680
get that power. But I don't understand that either.

434
00:22:26.359 --> 00:22:29.160
That's crazy, but it's interesting to think it.

435
00:22:29.160 --> 00:22:30.200
Sure is. Sure.

436
00:22:31.039 --> 00:22:32.599
Now, I want to go back to you a little

437
00:22:32.599 --> 00:22:36.599
bit here. You're you're also a musician. This is something

438
00:22:36.640 --> 00:22:39.759
I wanted to talk about because well, I've listened to

439
00:22:39.960 --> 00:22:42.240
your old band before. I don't know if they're still around,

440
00:22:42.240 --> 00:22:45.599
but the Midnight death Trap Quart I was listening to

441
00:22:45.680 --> 00:22:48.920
that a little bit before our discussion here on SoundCloud.

442
00:22:49.519 --> 00:22:52.000
Is that band still kicking around or is it? Yeah?

443
00:22:52.079 --> 00:22:54.960
Yeah, yeah we we We played about a year and

444
00:22:55.000 --> 00:22:56.559
a half ago. We did a bunch of gigs out

445
00:22:56.559 --> 00:23:00.720
in California. The coolest one was the biggest show I've

446
00:23:00.720 --> 00:23:02.839
ever played. We opened for a Queen cover band called

447
00:23:02.920 --> 00:23:06.720
Queen Nation, but we played the Starlight Bowl in Burbank,

448
00:23:07.400 --> 00:23:11.119
which is like a mini Hollywood Bowl, and it was unbelievable.

449
00:23:11.160 --> 00:23:14.200
I mean we had the full full like stage and

450
00:23:14.319 --> 00:23:16.759
lights and the amp line and everything, and that was

451
00:23:16.759 --> 00:23:19.920
a dream come true to play at something like that.

452
00:23:20.039 --> 00:23:22.200
You know, at like fifty years old, I'm like, finally,

453
00:23:22.279 --> 00:23:24.880
you know, my twelve year old self had that rock

454
00:23:24.920 --> 00:23:28.680
and roll playing in front of a crowd experience. But yeah,

455
00:23:28.680 --> 00:23:30.400
we still play. I mean I'm in Kentucky now and

456
00:23:30.440 --> 00:23:33.920
they're they're all in California. But I'll be flying out

457
00:23:33.960 --> 00:23:36.079
regularly a few times a year for shows and playing

458
00:23:36.119 --> 00:23:38.960
and try to baby set some shows up down South.

459
00:23:39.000 --> 00:23:42.759
Here too, But yeah, that's Music's a really important part

460
00:23:42.799 --> 00:23:46.279
of my life. I always feel that, you know, I

461
00:23:46.319 --> 00:23:51.079
had three big movements in my life with creative you know, expression,

462
00:23:51.079 --> 00:23:53.960
and the first one that really took off was music

463
00:23:54.000 --> 00:23:57.039
and playing in bands. That was a that was a

464
00:23:57.160 --> 00:24:00.279
huge thing, and we played all up and down the East.

465
00:24:00.279 --> 00:24:02.920
I played solo shows and with many different bands over

466
00:24:02.960 --> 00:24:07.400
the years, and you know, we toured and we opened

467
00:24:07.400 --> 00:24:09.519
it for tons and tons of notable bands, and we

468
00:24:09.559 --> 00:24:11.680
even signed a record deal back then with a little

469
00:24:11.680 --> 00:24:16.920
indie right label called Jbird, which was really cool. And

470
00:24:16.960 --> 00:24:21.039
then from there, while I was on tour, I never

471
00:24:21.079 --> 00:24:23.519
got into the whole groupie thing and the drinking and

472
00:24:23.599 --> 00:24:26.720
drugs thing. You know, we had just AIDS was still

473
00:24:26.839 --> 00:24:30.240
very much kicking around, and I had lost people to

474
00:24:30.279 --> 00:24:34.920
AIDS and I lost people to drugs, and you know,

475
00:24:35.000 --> 00:24:38.079
being in the music world, that's very common. And I

476
00:24:38.079 --> 00:24:41.200
was like, I, homie, don't play that. You know. I

477
00:24:41.200 --> 00:24:43.000
was like, I am not going to mess around with that.

478
00:24:43.400 --> 00:24:46.400
So I took my little notebooks. And I was also

479
00:24:46.480 --> 00:24:48.839
the singer. So I realized after a few nights, if

480
00:24:48.880 --> 00:24:51.319
I was talking to people and hanging out, I had

481
00:24:51.359 --> 00:24:54.599
no voice. Left at showtime. Yeah, so I would say,

482
00:24:54.599 --> 00:24:56.240
I'm going to go for a walk and be quiet.

483
00:24:56.640 --> 00:24:59.319
The part of being quiet, I would just write lyrics

484
00:24:59.319 --> 00:25:01.200
and I would write stories, and I would just sit

485
00:25:01.240 --> 00:25:02.880
with a notebook in a park or something, or go

486
00:25:02.920 --> 00:25:06.759
to some notable place where we were playing, and spend

487
00:25:06.759 --> 00:25:13.160
my afternoon in that city. And that's how I spent

488
00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:14.759
a lot of those tours. They'd be where were you

489
00:25:14.799 --> 00:25:16.880
all day? Everyone thought I was out getting drunk or

490
00:25:16.920 --> 00:25:18.640
something like. No. I wrote a short story like you

491
00:25:18.680 --> 00:25:23.839
did a what you know? And and I started visiting

492
00:25:24.039 --> 00:25:26.960
colleges too while we were while we were touring, because

493
00:25:26.960 --> 00:25:28.359
I'd like, oh, let me go sit in the college,

494
00:25:28.440 --> 00:25:30.160
let me sit in the cafeteria. And I would, at

495
00:25:30.200 --> 00:25:33.160
my age, you know, I was seventeen or whatever, I

496
00:25:33.200 --> 00:25:35.119
meet college kids in the park. Hey what are you doing?

497
00:25:35.200 --> 00:25:37.640
I'm drawing right, you know, And oh you should come to,

498
00:25:37.759 --> 00:25:41.079
you know, check out our college. And I fell in

499
00:25:41.160 --> 00:25:46.160
love with Emerson College and went there and so and

500
00:25:46.200 --> 00:25:47.400
that began the second movement.

501
00:25:47.559 --> 00:25:51.519
But well, I'll take a bus on. What instruments do

502
00:25:51.559 --> 00:25:51.960
you play?

503
00:25:52.960 --> 00:25:58.119
I piano, guitar, vocals, nice and surrounding stuff in that.

504
00:25:58.160 --> 00:26:01.079
Sphere one reason why I went in this direction is

505
00:26:01.119 --> 00:26:04.359
because music plays a big role in uh, in your

506
00:26:04.640 --> 00:26:09.319
in your recent release and uh, that of course is Requiem.

507
00:26:10.640 --> 00:26:13.759
Now you. I didn't know this until I started listening

508
00:26:13.880 --> 00:26:18.319
to some podcasts, uh that you appeared on while you

509
00:26:18.319 --> 00:26:20.920
were writing Requiem, like you were in the process of

510
00:26:20.960 --> 00:26:24.319
writing it, I think, and you said that you wrote, uh,

511
00:26:24.440 --> 00:26:27.359
the song, the very song that's the catalyst for the

512
00:26:27.440 --> 00:26:30.240
story for Requiem. Can you tell us about that, because

513
00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:32.640
that song is very powerful in the book.

514
00:26:33.240 --> 00:26:37.759
Yeah, I heard the I heard the Requiem as I

515
00:26:37.799 --> 00:26:39.359
was writing it. I heard the notes, I heard it

516
00:26:39.400 --> 00:26:42.839
come out, and I recorded it. I've recorded a few

517
00:26:42.839 --> 00:26:45.920
different versions of it, and I needed to have that

518
00:26:47.400 --> 00:26:51.559
because in order to write it successfully you you really

519
00:26:51.640 --> 00:26:53.359
need for me, I need to hear it and to

520
00:26:53.559 --> 00:26:57.440
and to make it alive. And I interpreted it the

521
00:26:57.480 --> 00:26:59.480
way I heard it. I've shared it with a few

522
00:26:59.480 --> 00:27:01.880
people and then I realized when they said, oh, that's

523
00:27:01.880 --> 00:27:04.079
not how I pictured it. It's great, but it's not

524
00:27:04.079 --> 00:27:05.720
how I pictured it. So I said, because originally I

525
00:27:05.799 --> 00:27:06.960
was going to put it out and I thought, you know,

526
00:27:06.960 --> 00:27:09.279
maybe I shouldn't because I don't want people. I want

527
00:27:09.279 --> 00:27:13.759
them to hear their own music. But to me, it

528
00:27:13.839 --> 00:27:17.640
was one of the big secrets to a lot of

529
00:27:17.680 --> 00:27:20.400
my work is I actually do make soundtracks for them.

530
00:27:20.599 --> 00:27:22.880
And going back to like my first book, Nerves, which

531
00:27:22.920 --> 00:27:25.720
was about a singer. You know, they find a singer

532
00:27:25.839 --> 00:27:29.039
and they bring them on to help wake their mom up,

533
00:27:29.440 --> 00:27:32.119
I wrote and recorded five songs in that R and

534
00:27:32.160 --> 00:27:35.279
B kind of eighty style. So I had those songs

535
00:27:35.279 --> 00:27:38.240
and those lyrics because I needed them to bring that

536
00:27:38.279 --> 00:27:40.599
book alive. And since most of my books, I have

537
00:27:40.680 --> 00:27:43.960
composed themes for and things like that because it puts

538
00:27:44.000 --> 00:27:45.640
me in the mood and it makes me like really

539
00:27:45.680 --> 00:27:49.319
feel like it starts. I can build that world, and

540
00:27:49.400 --> 00:27:52.039
I think you can hear that. I think in some

541
00:27:52.160 --> 00:27:54.240
of the books, I think it's in there, And in Requiem,

542
00:27:54.279 --> 00:27:58.079
it's the most president it's ever been, especially in that

543
00:27:58.119 --> 00:28:02.759
third act, which is very Yeah, well we'll get into

544
00:28:02.799 --> 00:28:04.839
the third act. I know that that I've read a

545
00:28:04.839 --> 00:28:06.960
lot of the reviews about Requiem, and I know I

546
00:28:07.000 --> 00:28:09.599
know where people are what they're reacting to that third

547
00:28:09.599 --> 00:28:10.359
act a little bit.

548
00:28:10.960 --> 00:28:15.079
Yeah, I was going to ask that question about you

549
00:28:15.480 --> 00:28:18.359
reading your own reviews, but I scrapped it. But since

550
00:28:18.400 --> 00:28:22.039
you brought it up. You do read your reviews. It

551
00:28:22.079 --> 00:28:25.960
seems like people, you know, I think it does have

552
00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:29.599
a lower rating on good Reads, but I have found

553
00:28:29.720 --> 00:28:33.440
some serious gems where people just didn't mesh with the concepts.

554
00:28:33.680 --> 00:28:36.119
And I think that's the case here because this book

555
00:28:36.160 --> 00:28:39.160
blew my mind. But I'm a fan of everything that's

556
00:28:39.200 --> 00:28:43.000
in that book, Thank you, thank you, and so it

557
00:28:43.079 --> 00:28:45.000
meshed well with me. I gave it five stars and

558
00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:46.680
it's probably going to make my top ten at the

559
00:28:46.759 --> 00:28:47.240
end of the year.

560
00:28:47.519 --> 00:28:51.000
Oh, thank you, thank you. You know, Jason, I kind

561
00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:55.240
of had a feeling because it goes into places that

562
00:28:55.319 --> 00:29:00.799
aren't expected for gothic and horror. Know, it goes into

563
00:29:00.839 --> 00:29:05.839
some very very esoteric, spiritual places, and it goes into

564
00:29:06.119 --> 00:29:09.200
what effect does sound have on us? What effect does

565
00:29:09.319 --> 00:29:12.880
how does that play into our spirit? And I think

566
00:29:12.920 --> 00:29:16.039
that a lot of people like I. There's been three

567
00:29:16.079 --> 00:29:18.279
reviews that have started like, what the F did I

568
00:29:18.359 --> 00:29:21.279
just read? Yeah, And they were negative reviews and they

569
00:29:21.279 --> 00:29:25.160
didn't like it, and and you know, but I think

570
00:29:25.160 --> 00:29:28.400
that's a good thing because I think that, yes, when

571
00:29:28.400 --> 00:29:30.720
I first read some of the reviews, I was I

572
00:29:30.759 --> 00:29:32.680
was in a puddle for a week because I was like,

573
00:29:32.720 --> 00:29:35.200
oh my god, this book is bombing, And then I

574
00:29:35.200 --> 00:29:37.519
thought about it. I thought, no, this is actually good,

575
00:29:38.000 --> 00:29:41.960
because you know, I think that art should challenge people,

576
00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:44.480
even if they don't like it. I would rather that

577
00:29:44.839 --> 00:29:48.279
than them go, eh, it was whatever. Yeah, it took,

578
00:29:49.319 --> 00:29:52.400
it swung widely, and for some people it really hit

579
00:29:52.960 --> 00:29:55.359
and connected with and some it didn't. And that's okay,

580
00:29:56.000 --> 00:29:58.200
you know, David Lynch isn't for everybody, not saying I'm

581
00:29:58.240 --> 00:30:01.680
on the same plane at all. But there's certain art

582
00:30:01.720 --> 00:30:05.440
that's not like, you know, it's not going to be

583
00:30:05.480 --> 00:30:08.680
immediately accessible, especially if you're playing with convention and you're

584
00:30:08.720 --> 00:30:13.119
not you're not delivering expectations, yeah, you know. And I

585
00:30:13.119 --> 00:30:15.559
thought Requiem does not deliver a lot of the A

586
00:30:15.599 --> 00:30:17.720
lot of the reviews are saying like, well, it wasn't

587
00:30:17.880 --> 00:30:22.319
you know, Event Horizon, and it wasn't alien, No, it wasn't. Yeah,

588
00:30:22.599 --> 00:30:24.079
those exist, you know, and.

589
00:30:24.039 --> 00:30:27.319
I was expecting like little alien monsters tearing people apart

590
00:30:27.440 --> 00:30:30.480
or honestly, I went into it thinking because of something

591
00:30:30.519 --> 00:30:33.400
in the description, I thought there was going to be

592
00:30:33.440 --> 00:30:36.079
like space zombies. But I didn't get that. But I

593
00:30:36.119 --> 00:30:40.000
was happy to not get that because what what actually

594
00:30:40.279 --> 00:30:44.799
came was more of a philosophical journey into existence. And

595
00:30:44.920 --> 00:30:50.359
it reminded me of those Arthur C. Clark books more

596
00:30:50.519 --> 00:30:54.279
than anything else. And I'm thinking of like two thousand

597
00:30:54.279 --> 00:30:57.000
and one, I think it is or twenty ten and

598
00:30:58.400 --> 00:31:01.400
those books like those Stories me Away when I was younger,

599
00:31:01.480 --> 00:31:03.599
and this one had a similar effect.

600
00:31:04.319 --> 00:31:07.160
Cool well, that means a lot, and I think those

601
00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:11.720
were really more the catalyst for Requiem than any any

602
00:31:11.720 --> 00:31:15.359
of the horror stuff. There's definitely horror in there, but

603
00:31:16.240 --> 00:31:18.839
definitely the Arthur C. Clarks two thousand and one was

604
00:31:18.839 --> 00:31:23.880
a big influence. The Arrival contact by Carl Sagan it

605
00:31:23.960 --> 00:31:27.079
was another big influence on me and the Cosmo series.

606
00:31:27.599 --> 00:31:31.119
And I've always been fascinated by you know, what what

607
00:31:31.160 --> 00:31:34.160
does it mean? You know outside of the earth, you

608
00:31:34.200 --> 00:31:37.920
know where spirituality come from? Where does sound come from?

609
00:31:38.119 --> 00:31:42.359
You know, how what would other creations and other worlds

610
00:31:42.400 --> 00:31:44.880
have for music, what would they have for art? You know,

611
00:31:44.920 --> 00:31:48.440
how would they contend with spirituality? Those have been big,

612
00:31:48.480 --> 00:31:51.079
big questions I've always kind of like pondered, and I

613
00:31:51.319 --> 00:31:54.920
kind of explored that with with Requiem. Yeah, and you

614
00:31:54.960 --> 00:31:58.240
know so, and I think with sound and with music,

615
00:31:58.319 --> 00:31:59.839
it has such an effect on you. You know, if

616
00:31:59.880 --> 00:32:01.960
you if you hear a favorite song you know you

617
00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:04.960
grew up with, it brings you back, right Or if

618
00:32:05.000 --> 00:32:06.680
you if you hear you know, like flight of the

619
00:32:06.720 --> 00:32:10.119
Bumblebee something, it does something to you, you know, or

620
00:32:10.319 --> 00:32:13.000
or or or favorite Christmas Carol. There's things that music

621
00:32:13.079 --> 00:32:17.680
does to you that kind of like align your align

622
00:32:17.680 --> 00:32:20.720
your DNA in a certain way, which I wanted to

623
00:32:20.799 --> 00:32:23.559
kind of explore and get into. It could be negative too, though,

624
00:32:24.039 --> 00:32:26.240
you know, negative sounds can be just as bad. Like

625
00:32:26.279 --> 00:32:28.319
sometimes you like, I don't like that song. I don't

626
00:32:28.319 --> 00:32:30.079
know why I should like it. Maybe it's the way

627
00:32:30.119 --> 00:32:32.559
it was recorded. There's some weird frequencies that bug you

628
00:32:32.640 --> 00:32:36.720
for a certain reason, right, So it's the sound recording

629
00:32:36.759 --> 00:32:39.319
itself may not be maybe be bothering you, maybe not

630
00:32:39.359 --> 00:32:41.720
just the song, or it may be pleasing to you.

631
00:32:41.720 --> 00:32:42.880
You know, a lot of people say, oh, I love

632
00:32:42.920 --> 00:32:45.400
the seventies and all that yacht rock and Billy Joel

633
00:32:45.440 --> 00:32:48.079
and but there was a certain way they recorded stuff

634
00:32:48.079 --> 00:32:51.279
that was you know, everything was smooth and warm sounding,

635
00:32:51.319 --> 00:32:53.920
and it kind of it's different than if you listen

636
00:32:53.960 --> 00:32:57.440
to Metallica, which is very harsh and sharp. You know,

637
00:32:58.519 --> 00:33:01.440
both good, but they have totally different effects on your psyche.

638
00:33:01.599 --> 00:33:04.000
Can you ignore? Can you ignore master puppets when it

639
00:33:04.039 --> 00:33:07.240
comes on you? You know, it's really hard?

640
00:33:07.640 --> 00:33:10.839
Yeah, absolutely So I was actually going to ask you

641
00:33:10.880 --> 00:33:13.000
about that as it because you're a musician. I was

642
00:33:13.039 --> 00:33:16.759
wondering if you had any insight into why music does that. Like,

643
00:33:16.799 --> 00:33:20.119
for example, I work a physical job. I'm often on

644
00:33:20.160 --> 00:33:23.640
my feet and sometimes your body just gets sore and tired.

645
00:33:24.400 --> 00:33:26.960
And if I just throw on some music into my

646
00:33:27.000 --> 00:33:30.960
headphones instead of like whatever audiobook I'm listening to, that

647
00:33:32.039 --> 00:33:35.119
energy that the music can bring me is incredible and

648
00:33:35.160 --> 00:33:38.079
it helps me. It doesn't just help me, it almost

649
00:33:38.160 --> 00:33:43.279
cures my ailments, my my feeling of like even sickness sometimes.

650
00:33:43.680 --> 00:33:46.960
Why is that Well, there's been tons of tons have

651
00:33:47.000 --> 00:33:50.880
been written about it and scientifically explored. But you know,

652
00:33:50.920 --> 00:33:53.920
I'm not I'm not an expert. I'll give that caveat,

653
00:33:53.960 --> 00:33:56.519
but I think if you think about it in a

654
00:33:56.559 --> 00:34:02.200
really primal, primal way, a beat with our heart. So

655
00:34:02.359 --> 00:34:05.440
if you're dragging right, you're kind of pushing and pulling,

656
00:34:05.799 --> 00:34:08.280
and then you have a steady beat of something you like.

657
00:34:09.400 --> 00:34:11.840
You know, be it Metallica or or something like you know,

658
00:34:11.880 --> 00:34:14.039
bad Lands from Springsteen or something where he has that

659
00:34:14.159 --> 00:34:16.000
like you know it's going to kind of like you're

660
00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:19.119
going to start aligning. Just you can't ignore the beat.

661
00:34:19.159 --> 00:34:21.239
Your body starts to go to the beat. And we're

662
00:34:21.400 --> 00:34:25.079
made with electricity. Our heart from is electric. Music is electric,

663
00:34:25.079 --> 00:34:27.360
and we're listening to it electrically. So I think that

664
00:34:27.400 --> 00:34:32.480
those kinds start to align, and different frequencies do different

665
00:34:32.480 --> 00:34:35.679
things in our brain when we listen. There's things that

666
00:34:35.719 --> 00:34:38.280
happen in our brain in ourn electrical system to certain

667
00:34:38.280 --> 00:34:42.920
frequencies that change our moods. And this is science and

668
00:34:43.199 --> 00:34:46.000
it's unbelievable. Like and we've all had the hearing tests

669
00:34:46.400 --> 00:34:48.320
and we know like certain pitches. You know, we hear

670
00:34:48.440 --> 00:34:51.239
high pitch, it hurts, right. If you hear a super

671
00:34:51.280 --> 00:34:53.760
low pitch, it bugs you. You know, if you're driving down

672
00:34:53.800 --> 00:34:56.639
the street and somebody's cranking up hip hop really loud

673
00:34:56.639 --> 00:35:00.280
with the base shaking, and it literally shakes you and

674
00:35:00.320 --> 00:35:03.039
you can't ignore it either. So I think that the

675
00:35:03.119 --> 00:35:06.639
music really does it aligned you in certain ways. And

676
00:35:06.719 --> 00:35:11.559
another thing that's really amazing, our bodies are really reactive

677
00:35:11.559 --> 00:35:17.039
to music and sound people who are having mental deficits

678
00:35:17.159 --> 00:35:19.760
and aging issues with their brain. One of the things

679
00:35:19.760 --> 00:35:23.440
they recommend is music and sound therapy. And what happens

680
00:35:23.480 --> 00:35:25.199
is if you make a note with your hands or

681
00:35:25.199 --> 00:35:28.039
make a sound with your hands, there are connections in

682
00:35:28.079 --> 00:35:30.159
your brain that start to take place that only take

683
00:35:30.159 --> 00:35:31.960
place when you do that. So even if you're banging

684
00:35:32.519 --> 00:35:37.039
terribly on a piano, that connection between your hands making

685
00:35:37.079 --> 00:35:39.920
the noise in your brain, your brain hearing it lights

686
00:35:39.960 --> 00:35:44.519
up certain parts of your brain. Yeah, and then people

687
00:35:44.559 --> 00:35:47.280
start to get memory back, they start to heal. And

688
00:35:47.599 --> 00:35:50.920
that's another reason why you have rock and rollers who

689
00:35:50.920 --> 00:35:53.480
are eighty years old now dancing around like Mick Jagger

690
00:35:53.519 --> 00:35:56.559
like he's thirty. I think, because you can't. You know,

691
00:35:56.599 --> 00:35:59.559
it does something to you, like you said, it gives

692
00:35:59.599 --> 00:36:01.480
you more and just energy. It like kind of like

693
00:36:01.559 --> 00:36:04.840
heals you. It brings these things. It's like aligned your body.

694
00:36:04.920 --> 00:36:06.519
It's an amazing thing.

695
00:36:06.920 --> 00:36:08.760
But absolutely it can do the.

696
00:36:08.760 --> 00:36:11.239
Reverse too, I think, Ken, Yeah, you know there was

697
00:36:11.280 --> 00:36:14.920
all that the famous Nazi experiments with low frequencies and

698
00:36:14.960 --> 00:36:15.760
stuff like that.

699
00:36:15.719 --> 00:36:21.239
Yes, which you mentioned you mentioned in Requiem. That's interesting too,

700
00:36:21.280 --> 00:36:23.519
because I was in a building once where the fire

701
00:36:23.559 --> 00:36:27.519
alarm went off, and it went off for a good

702
00:36:27.559 --> 00:36:31.079
two or three minutes, and it was so loud. When

703
00:36:31.079 --> 00:36:34.159
it was done, I turned to my friends and I

704
00:36:34.199 --> 00:36:37.559
was like, just imagine you use that as a torture device,

705
00:36:37.639 --> 00:36:40.119
because you totally could where you're stuck in a room

706
00:36:40.239 --> 00:36:44.320
and this massively loud, like it was setting off my

707
00:36:44.400 --> 00:36:47.039
alarm on my watch, saying you know, you're in too

708
00:36:47.079 --> 00:36:49.159
loud of a place, Get out of there. You're going

709
00:36:49.159 --> 00:36:54.000
to damage your ears. And like, just imagine being stuck

710
00:36:54.000 --> 00:36:56.440
in a room with that sound twenty four hours a day.

711
00:36:56.920 --> 00:37:01.480
That would drive you absolutely insane. Literally, Yeah, it could

712
00:37:01.559 --> 00:37:02.239
even kill you.

713
00:37:02.840 --> 00:37:05.480
Yeah, yeah, it would shut you down really quickly you

714
00:37:05.880 --> 00:37:10.760
start getting defeated. Uh yeah, And that's that's really interesting

715
00:37:11.559 --> 00:37:14.239
and and yeah you think about that, like what what

716
00:37:14.280 --> 00:37:17.039
that could do to you? Yeah, I'm curious what you're

717
00:37:17.079 --> 00:37:19.760
listening to though, to to get yourself hyped up at

718
00:37:19.760 --> 00:37:20.519
work if you don't mind.

719
00:37:20.599 --> 00:37:24.840
Well, the thing is is like, uh, my musical uh

720
00:37:25.199 --> 00:37:30.760
tastes probably go towards where some people would be feeling

721
00:37:30.840 --> 00:37:35.360
similarly to what that uh that siren that I just

722
00:37:35.440 --> 00:37:38.199
mentioned the fire alarm would be like. But I like

723
00:37:38.239 --> 00:37:44.320
listening to bands like Tool, also like Electric Wizard. The

724
00:37:44.360 --> 00:37:48.360
more heavy stuff it's down tuned, it's sometimes angry. I

725
00:37:48.360 --> 00:37:51.960
find bands like Tool are a little more philosophical, which

726
00:37:52.000 --> 00:37:54.079
I kind of you know, I get into as well.

727
00:37:54.920 --> 00:37:58.760
Uh but uh, you know Metallica, I like Metallica. Uh.

728
00:37:58.880 --> 00:38:01.320
I like heavier stuff, but I don't like too heavy.

729
00:38:01.360 --> 00:38:04.119
When you get too heavy like death metal or black metal,

730
00:38:04.199 --> 00:38:08.079
that's just that hurts my ears. If I'm listening to that,

731
00:38:08.159 --> 00:38:11.519
it's because I'm finding it fun for the moment, but

732
00:38:11.559 --> 00:38:14.239
it doesn't give me the same energy like when I'm

733
00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:17.760
I have a lot of playlists too, of bands that

734
00:38:17.840 --> 00:38:21.480
I don't necessarily listen to regularly, but their music, some

735
00:38:21.599 --> 00:38:24.920
of their songs can get me going. Bands like actually

736
00:38:24.920 --> 00:38:28.119
Neurosis was a huge it was a favorite of mine

737
00:38:28.480 --> 00:38:31.280
for a long time, and it's unfortunate what happened to

738
00:38:31.360 --> 00:38:34.239
them as a as members. But yeah, that's the uh,

739
00:38:34.880 --> 00:38:38.559
that's uh, that's what gets me going. Cool.

740
00:38:39.159 --> 00:38:43.880
Yeah, cool, And you know I imagine, you know, you

741
00:38:44.000 --> 00:38:46.920
keet into something really interesting. It's like you listen to

742
00:38:46.920 --> 00:38:49.760
different things for different moods. Yeah, and you know, you

743
00:38:49.840 --> 00:38:52.239
might put on the yacht rock station when you're cooking

744
00:38:52.239 --> 00:38:54.760
Thanksgiving dinner, you know, because the family's around, you know,

745
00:38:54.920 --> 00:38:58.079
or or you know, something like that or seventy soft rock. Right,

746
00:38:58.239 --> 00:39:00.480
but yeah, you know when you're like, I like all

747
00:39:00.480 --> 00:39:03.079
that stuff too, right, Sure, it.

748
00:39:03.000 --> 00:39:06.599
Also depends on my mood. In the winter, I often

749
00:39:06.719 --> 00:39:10.960
go to more folk like music, like a guitar, a cello,

750
00:39:11.480 --> 00:39:15.920
sad stuff because it matches sort of like what I'm feeling,

751
00:39:15.960 --> 00:39:18.679
but it gives me energy the lyrics. I don't like

752
00:39:18.719 --> 00:39:21.159
it when the lyrics get too depressing. Like, Yeah, I

753
00:39:21.199 --> 00:39:23.920
was a huge fan of Alison Chains when I was younger.

754
00:39:25.079 --> 00:39:27.360
I can't listen to them as much now because their

755
00:39:27.760 --> 00:39:30.880
music is just too depressing and it brings me where

756
00:39:30.880 --> 00:39:33.039
it used to lift me up, it now brings me down,

757
00:39:33.320 --> 00:39:35.840
you know what I mean. But I can recognize the

758
00:39:35.880 --> 00:39:38.480
beauty in that music still, I just can't really listen

759
00:39:38.519 --> 00:39:38.800
to it.

760
00:39:39.519 --> 00:39:41.760
Yeah, I think, you know, for a lot of the

761
00:39:41.800 --> 00:39:44.920
grunge music, what happened to most of them with the

762
00:39:44.920 --> 00:39:48.360
suicides kind of colored a lot of that because when

763
00:39:48.559 --> 00:39:50.719
I felt when the first came out, there was a

764
00:39:50.760 --> 00:39:53.519
whole hopefulness to it, like we were exploring this, But

765
00:39:53.559 --> 00:39:55.840
I thought we were all going to get through this. Yeah,

766
00:39:55.840 --> 00:39:58.679
the fact that many of them didn't kind of has

767
00:39:58.840 --> 00:40:01.920
changed the perspective on like Soundgarden and Alice, and.

768
00:40:04.000 --> 00:40:07.719
It shows you that they were being extremely honest and

769
00:40:08.199 --> 00:40:13.280
the songs they wrote and and it there's no hope

770
00:40:13.280 --> 00:40:17.039
in it though. It's like somebody who who preaches not

771
00:40:17.119 --> 00:40:19.840
I wouldn't say preaches us too harsh with somebody who's

772
00:40:19.880 --> 00:40:24.320
there for you, uh, speaking about you know, how to

773
00:40:24.360 --> 00:40:29.159
survive depression, But like I get it, if they commit suicide,

774
00:40:29.159 --> 00:40:32.480
it's not necessarily in their control. But then they commit suicide,

775
00:40:33.960 --> 00:40:39.000
everything they taught beforehand is almost null and void now

776
00:40:40.400 --> 00:40:42.880
and uh and and helping you through your own journey

777
00:40:42.880 --> 00:40:44.119
because they didn't survive it.

778
00:40:46.159 --> 00:40:49.159
Exactly. And I think that you you nailed it because

779
00:40:49.159 --> 00:40:51.159
and I think that's the the reason why when you

780
00:40:51.199 --> 00:40:53.719
listen to Alice or Sound Garden and stuff, you have

781
00:40:53.760 --> 00:40:56.920
that little tinge. Now you know that you're like ah,

782
00:40:57.320 --> 00:40:59.519
especially Nirvana, you know you're like oh man.

783
00:41:00.239 --> 00:41:03.400
But of course I don't want to put fault on

784
00:41:03.400 --> 00:41:07.159
on the on the people who who whose life's ended,

785
00:41:07.239 --> 00:41:11.920
because depression is a strange and mysterious disease. And I

786
00:41:12.320 --> 00:41:16.800
fully believe it's not within their control when that comes about.

787
00:41:17.000 --> 00:41:21.199
I think there's other forces involved and it's and it's

788
00:41:21.199 --> 00:41:23.519
a dark thing that you're fighting when you when you

789
00:41:23.599 --> 00:41:26.679
go through that. So it's not their fault, but it's

790
00:41:26.760 --> 00:41:30.000
something that happened to that particular music scene.

791
00:41:30.119 --> 00:41:36.920
And yeah, it's I agree, I agree one hundred and uh.

792
00:41:37.239 --> 00:41:41.880
It's definitely an interesting point in time, and yeah, it

793
00:41:41.920 --> 00:41:44.639
definitely puts you in that mindset, you know, that that

794
00:41:44.800 --> 00:41:49.960
depressive mindset, and it's you know, it's really I don't know.

795
00:41:50.079 --> 00:41:52.320
And you listen to Metallica though, who have weathered all

796
00:41:52.320 --> 00:41:55.360
through this. Ye had some very dark material as well

797
00:41:55.440 --> 00:41:57.800
with suicide you know, and things in there they explored,

798
00:41:58.239 --> 00:42:00.559
but they got through the other side and stuff, and

799
00:42:00.599 --> 00:42:03.760
I think that that's you know, it's different, it's a

800
00:42:03.800 --> 00:42:06.760
different experience. Now it's like a celebration like that through

801
00:42:06.800 --> 00:42:09.400
the darkness and now we're we're thriving and we made

802
00:42:09.440 --> 00:42:10.599
it through and you know.

803
00:42:10.920 --> 00:42:13.920
And they're even celebrating the darkness that they experienced.

804
00:42:14.239 --> 00:42:17.360
Yeah, yeah, they're saying look and then they're not you know,

805
00:42:17.400 --> 00:42:19.760
putting a blind eye on it. So I think that's

806
00:42:19.920 --> 00:42:24.559
that's really amazing and fortunate. But yeah, I think that,

807
00:42:24.719 --> 00:42:28.840
you know, music can heal, and I think that, you know,

808
00:42:28.880 --> 00:42:33.239
the expression that they gave and and you know is amazing,

809
00:42:33.320 --> 00:42:37.119
and it's also true what you said that you really

810
00:42:37.159 --> 00:42:39.880
there's sometimes there's no help, you know, And and a

811
00:42:39.880 --> 00:42:41.760
lot of people will say, oh, if I only knew Kirk,

812
00:42:41.840 --> 00:42:44.920
you know, well believe me. You know, I'm sure everybody

813
00:42:44.960 --> 00:42:47.840
around him was doing everything they could. Yeah, you know,

814
00:42:47.920 --> 00:42:50.320
but there's only there's only so much you can do,

815
00:42:50.480 --> 00:42:53.320
and people are gonna He escaped a rehab and then

816
00:42:53.320 --> 00:42:55.159
committed you know, he was in a thing I think

817
00:42:55.320 --> 00:42:57.880
was he with Gibby Haynes, was his roommate or something,

818
00:42:57.880 --> 00:43:00.440
and he snuck out the window and went and did

819
00:43:00.480 --> 00:43:03.840
what he did. And I can't imagine Gibbie Haynes turning

820
00:43:03.840 --> 00:43:06.960
his back on him. You know, he's a pretty cool

821
00:43:07.000 --> 00:43:09.719
and smart and big dude, you know. I mean, if

822
00:43:09.760 --> 00:43:11.519
anybody's you know, you need to talk to I mean,

823
00:43:11.519 --> 00:43:14.679
I but anyway, but I think I think you're right

824
00:43:14.800 --> 00:43:19.920
that you know about that. So it's a very very powerful,

825
00:43:20.039 --> 00:43:23.719
a very powerful creative pathway.

826
00:43:24.400 --> 00:43:28.199
Absolutely. I think it's one of the most powerful forces

827
00:43:28.440 --> 00:43:34.199
that we have to experience as humans. Is music. Gotting

828
00:43:34.239 --> 00:43:39.360
back to like some philosophical ideas. Requiem, as I mentioned earlier,

829
00:43:39.440 --> 00:43:42.079
it has a lot of a lot of that, and

830
00:43:42.199 --> 00:43:46.480
it either gave me food for thought or something that

831
00:43:46.559 --> 00:43:51.559
I already thought about but I could identify with. For example,

832
00:43:51.599 --> 00:43:54.960
I really love the idea and this works for musicians too, writers,

833
00:43:54.960 --> 00:43:58.760
any artist. Honestly, I love the idea of artists being

834
00:43:58.840 --> 00:44:02.719
like beacons or radio transmitting their art into the world

835
00:44:02.800 --> 00:44:07.599
from some metaphysical place. And it's even freakier the idea.

836
00:44:07.760 --> 00:44:11.920
And we touched upon this with like bands like Allison Chains,

837
00:44:12.440 --> 00:44:15.440
the idea that something dark and manipulative could come through

838
00:44:15.519 --> 00:44:19.079
songs that's written and Requiem. Not to say that not

839
00:44:19.159 --> 00:44:22.360
to say that Alison Chains writes that kind of music.

840
00:44:22.360 --> 00:44:24.639
I'm just saying, like, the way it turned out is

841
00:44:24.679 --> 00:44:27.599
it's kind of hard to, you know, get past that now.

842
00:44:27.880 --> 00:44:30.679
But it's it's freaky the idea that something dark and

843
00:44:30.880 --> 00:44:34.440
manipulative could come through, and that's the song that's in Requiem,

844
00:44:35.039 --> 00:44:38.840
and it's made reality within that story. Can you talk

845
00:44:38.880 --> 00:44:41.519
a little bit how you came up with that idea

846
00:44:41.840 --> 00:44:44.760
and was it the genesis of the book itself or

847
00:44:44.800 --> 00:44:46.159
was it a pleasant surprise.

848
00:44:47.519 --> 00:44:53.119
So part one. I think that, you know, the the

849
00:44:53.119 --> 00:44:58.079
the idea that that we're kind of antennas for music

850
00:44:58.119 --> 00:45:01.679
and for for for these stories isn't older. It's an

851
00:45:01.679 --> 00:45:03.000
older you know theory.

852
00:45:03.360 --> 00:45:04.199
Yeah, but it can.

853
00:45:04.280 --> 00:45:06.960
It definitely feels that way to me. And when I

854
00:45:07.000 --> 00:45:09.480
first heard the concept, it was Keith Richards had said

855
00:45:09.480 --> 00:45:11.000
that somebody asked him where he gets his songs, and

856
00:45:11.000 --> 00:45:12.920
he said, he puts his finger up to the sky

857
00:45:13.000 --> 00:45:15.840
and they zoom into his finger and before he knows

858
00:45:15.840 --> 00:45:18.320
that he has a song or something to that, I'm

859
00:45:18.360 --> 00:45:21.400
paraly yeah, And I thought, wow, that's kind of that's

860
00:45:21.480 --> 00:45:23.159
kind of interesting, And I think that's kind of how

861
00:45:23.199 --> 00:45:25.000
I felt when I was doing my stories and doing

862
00:45:25.039 --> 00:45:27.079
my first songs. It kind of like you just kind

863
00:45:27.079 --> 00:45:30.679
of sit there and some things would just start to manifest,

864
00:45:31.039 --> 00:45:33.639
or you'd be walking down the street and suddenly it

865
00:45:33.719 --> 00:45:35.639
was like almost like somebody turned to radio one and

866
00:45:35.639 --> 00:45:37.960
you'd get like a riff in your idea or a

867
00:45:38.079 --> 00:45:41.719
lyric idea, and you go, oh, where did that come from?

868
00:45:41.840 --> 00:45:44.760
Or So I think that that kind of concept, I

869
00:45:44.800 --> 00:45:48.800
thought was is really an amazing one. And I think

870
00:45:48.800 --> 00:45:54.360
that's also why you might see several properties at the

871
00:45:54.360 --> 00:45:57.800
same time, people might get like several books might suddenly

872
00:45:57.920 --> 00:46:00.360
all a bunch of witch stories or books will come out,

873
00:46:00.440 --> 00:46:03.320
or certain things will come out under certain topics because

874
00:46:03.320 --> 00:46:06.599
maybe the universe is shooting these kind of waves and

875
00:46:06.800 --> 00:46:10.360
there's not just one one antenna, there's several you know,

876
00:46:10.440 --> 00:46:13.679
picking signals up like you know, like like SETI or something.

877
00:46:13.760 --> 00:46:16.079
And then all these artists go, oh, I want to

878
00:46:16.079 --> 00:46:19.119
do zombies, you know. Yeah, and that's that's kind of

879
00:46:19.159 --> 00:46:21.039
like that the word the prompt and then they all

880
00:46:21.119 --> 00:46:22.480
kind of go and do it their own point of

881
00:46:22.559 --> 00:46:26.039
view exactly exactly.

882
00:46:26.639 --> 00:46:31.199
Carl Jung, Yeah, right, and and.

883
00:46:30.239 --> 00:46:33.760
And and uh, I think that that's a fascinating concept.

884
00:46:33.800 --> 00:46:35.920
And that's one of the things we you know, that

885
00:46:35.960 --> 00:46:39.440
Requiem kind of talks about, is, you know, are there

886
00:46:39.639 --> 00:46:43.159
forces that are actually sending this stuff out? And where

887
00:46:43.239 --> 00:46:46.920
is that coming from? Where is that force originating from?

888
00:46:46.960 --> 00:46:50.119
And why why is it doing this? You know, it's

889
00:46:50.159 --> 00:46:53.119
it's a it's an amazing thing that it's like how

890
00:46:53.119 --> 00:46:55.079
do you even get wrap your head around that? Like,

891
00:46:55.199 --> 00:47:01.199
you know, so that's that's really where came from. And

892
00:47:01.519 --> 00:47:04.639
the origin of Recuiem actually came from a terrible nightmare

893
00:47:04.679 --> 00:47:07.800
I had where I was suspended in the fluid looking

894
00:47:07.840 --> 00:47:09.719
out down at the earth, and I realized I was

895
00:47:09.760 --> 00:47:11.840
dead and I couldn't move, but I felt these little

896
00:47:11.960 --> 00:47:15.400
nanobots in me that were downloading all of my ideas

897
00:47:15.400 --> 00:47:17.719
and thoughts and my gestures. They were even downloading my

898
00:47:17.800 --> 00:47:21.920
gestures and everything, and I thought, this is awful, you know.

899
00:47:22.159 --> 00:47:23.960
And I was so relieved when I woke up. But

900
00:47:24.000 --> 00:47:25.800
of course I said, I got to write this down.

901
00:47:26.199 --> 00:47:29.280
I got to use this somewhere, and I just then

902
00:47:29.639 --> 00:47:32.039
it came from there. And while I had that dream,

903
00:47:32.079 --> 00:47:35.760
I heard music. I heard weird music, and I thought,

904
00:47:35.840 --> 00:47:39.000
oh man, I thought, this is something I.

905
00:47:38.960 --> 00:47:42.920
Love how dreams can sometimes spark a story idea. Because

906
00:47:43.079 --> 00:47:45.719
I was talking with author Chris Paneteer about this, I

907
00:47:45.760 --> 00:47:48.679
had a nightmare the day I was set to talk

908
00:47:48.719 --> 00:47:51.639
to him, and it was like a terrifying nightmare. It

909
00:47:51.679 --> 00:47:55.440
was like people being murdered. And I sometimes find myself

910
00:47:55.519 --> 00:47:58.559
enjoying those nightmares. And I woke up that day and

911
00:47:58.599 --> 00:48:01.320
I was in a great mood. It's because I want

912
00:48:02.719 --> 00:48:05.480
that to happen. It's more like that was just a

913
00:48:05.519 --> 00:48:07.960
really awesome experience. I was kind of terrified while I

914
00:48:08.000 --> 00:48:09.760
was in it. But now that I'm awake and I'm

915
00:48:09.840 --> 00:48:11.679
thinking about it, that was cool. I might make this

916
00:48:11.800 --> 00:48:14.320
into a story. Cool, And it was kind of cool

917
00:48:14.360 --> 00:48:15.719
that that happened to you with Rek Grant.

918
00:48:16.400 --> 00:48:19.800
Yeah, that's you know, that's something that I've done since

919
00:48:19.840 --> 00:48:22.840
I was a kid. I had and I still have,

920
00:48:23.039 --> 00:48:27.079
terrible terrible dreams, like like and I went to a

921
00:48:27.320 --> 00:48:29.760
psychiatrist when I was a kid, and I would tell

922
00:48:29.800 --> 00:48:32.480
them all these terrible dreams i'd have, and at one

923
00:48:32.480 --> 00:48:35.159
point he said, you should write them down because in

924
00:48:35.199 --> 00:48:36.920
the process of writing them down, they get out of

925
00:48:36.920 --> 00:48:38.719
your head. Because I would have these dreams and all

926
00:48:38.760 --> 00:48:41.880
day I'd be in school, like, they'd be like, Palasana,

927
00:48:41.920 --> 00:48:44.119
what's wrong. I'm a I can't stop thinking about this

928
00:48:44.239 --> 00:48:46.639
terrible dream you know, my dog turned into a whirrelf

929
00:48:46.679 --> 00:48:50.840
and ate my fan whatever. And they'd be like, you know, yeah, yeah.

930
00:48:50.880 --> 00:48:54.599
So he said, write them down and they will lose

931
00:48:54.639 --> 00:48:56.519
their power in your brain. Try it. Try it as

932
00:48:56.519 --> 00:48:58.079
an experiment, see if it works. One of the things

933
00:48:58.079 --> 00:48:59.400
they were trying to get me out of these these

934
00:48:59.800 --> 00:49:02.360
you know, terrors that I had, the night terrors, and

935
00:49:02.400 --> 00:49:05.480
it worked nice. And then I realized really quickly. When

936
00:49:05.480 --> 00:49:07.559
I had writing assignments at school, I would use some

937
00:49:07.599 --> 00:49:10.519
of them and the teachers will responding, the kids would respond,

938
00:49:10.920 --> 00:49:13.039
and I was like, Oh, this is cool, you know,

939
00:49:13.599 --> 00:49:15.960
I'm finally cool for five minutes until they til we

940
00:49:16.039 --> 00:49:17.719
get to the schoolyard and they beat me up again.

941
00:49:17.920 --> 00:49:19.800
But for the five minutes I was, you know, telling

942
00:49:19.800 --> 00:49:22.159
my story, they would like, they, oh, that's cool story,

943
00:49:22.280 --> 00:49:26.599
you nerd, but anyway, freak, you know whatever.

944
00:49:26.519 --> 00:49:28.679
Did you ever get bullied, like when you started writing

945
00:49:28.719 --> 00:49:32.840
your own stories. This isn't aside, but this happened to me, Like,

946
00:49:33.039 --> 00:49:36.519
and your friends start reading your story and they start

947
00:49:36.719 --> 00:49:39.239
picking on you because of how sick and twisted those

948
00:49:39.239 --> 00:49:41.719
stories are. They're like, man, you're a total freak, aren't you.

949
00:49:45.079 --> 00:49:48.159
Somewhat yeah, a little bit. I think a lot of

950
00:49:48.159 --> 00:49:51.960
people were surprised when I was younger, like what I

951
00:49:52.039 --> 00:49:57.920
was writing the horror stuff. But that's kind of that's

952
00:49:58.000 --> 00:50:00.360
kind of par for the course. I think that, you know,

953
00:50:00.719 --> 00:50:02.159
a lot of a lot of the people close to

954
00:50:02.159 --> 00:50:04.199
me won't read my stuff, which is funny because they

955
00:50:04.239 --> 00:50:07.800
don't they don't like horror. Yeah that gets too freaky.

956
00:50:07.840 --> 00:50:11.039
And they said I've I've fried, and after two pages, John,

957
00:50:11.039 --> 00:50:12.719
I love you. I can't read this. It's too scary

958
00:50:12.719 --> 00:50:15.440
for me. It's too messed up in wack adoodle. Yeah,

959
00:50:15.679 --> 00:50:17.760
but that's okay, that's fine.

960
00:50:18.039 --> 00:50:21.119
Yeah, It's like that's what grinds my gears. I don't

961
00:50:21.159 --> 00:50:24.360
know why, but it gets me excited. Like I think

962
00:50:24.360 --> 00:50:26.639
it's because you're looking at things that most people are

963
00:50:26.679 --> 00:50:30.679
too afraid to look at and uh, and the excitement

964
00:50:30.800 --> 00:50:34.400
in there is just knowing that it's there where other

965
00:50:34.440 --> 00:50:37.840
people are maybe afraid. Like what I'm talking about here

966
00:50:37.920 --> 00:50:41.679
is that there's that theory of you take like a

967
00:50:41.719 --> 00:50:47.280
typical subdivision where everything looks perfect on the surface, but

968
00:50:47.320 --> 00:50:50.440
there's a rock on someone's yard and you look under

969
00:50:50.480 --> 00:50:52.519
that rock and that's where all the worms and gross

970
00:50:52.559 --> 00:50:56.079
things are, but that it exists, but it's hidden from view. Right.

971
00:50:56.320 --> 00:50:58.880
Most people would like look under that rock and go, oh,

972
00:50:58.920 --> 00:51:01.840
that's disgusting. But I would look at and hey, like

973
00:51:01.920 --> 00:51:03.800
look at that's a worm. Like that's interesting.

974
00:51:05.559 --> 00:51:09.320
Yeah, I agree with that. I think that that's that

975
00:51:09.480 --> 00:51:12.719
kind of curiosity I think is what drives us in

976
00:51:12.800 --> 00:51:15.960
the horror. We want to know about the forbidden things.

977
00:51:15.960 --> 00:51:19.639
We want to know about the creepy crawleys and why

978
00:51:19.719 --> 00:51:22.400
is that there? You know, we start we're curious as

979
00:51:22.480 --> 00:51:25.719
to as to and you know, why it's there and

980
00:51:25.760 --> 00:51:29.960
how it's there and how it ties into us. And

981
00:51:30.119 --> 00:51:32.519
I've always been fascinated by stuff like that too, like

982
00:51:32.559 --> 00:51:34.719
you know, why why are there worms? Why are there snakes?

983
00:51:35.280 --> 00:51:37.559
You know? Why do we need wasps? You know they

984
00:51:37.599 --> 00:51:42.760
seem terrible? You know why? You know it's like, so

985
00:51:43.599 --> 00:51:45.719
I'm with you, you know, in that one hundred percent,

986
00:51:46.280 --> 00:51:48.440
And I think, to me, it's always been interesting. You know,

987
00:51:49.559 --> 00:51:51.880
that's where the interesting stuff lies, because I think that's

988
00:51:51.920 --> 00:51:54.480
where you really see what people are made of and

989
00:51:54.519 --> 00:51:56.880
what you're made of. I think when you're confronted with

990
00:51:56.920 --> 00:52:01.760
the worst possible scenarios, you see what people really are like.

991
00:52:02.519 --> 00:52:04.960
And I think that's a really interesting litmus test. Like

992
00:52:05.760 --> 00:52:07.320
you know, you go on a date or something, and

993
00:52:07.360 --> 00:52:09.239
then you go on a roller coaster, and then you

994
00:52:09.360 --> 00:52:12.360
really see that other person what they're what they're at,

995
00:52:12.440 --> 00:52:15.119
their at their most terrified, probably unless they're a roller

996
00:52:15.119 --> 00:52:18.360
coaster freak, which yeah, anyway, but you will really see like,

997
00:52:18.400 --> 00:52:21.440
oh my god, okay, this person. You know, they're screaming

998
00:52:21.519 --> 00:52:25.119
and they're yelling and they're unhinged and they're primal, and

999
00:52:25.159 --> 00:52:27.639
I think, like it's a really cool kind of thing

1000
00:52:27.719 --> 00:52:29.320
that and I think horror does that too, when you

1001
00:52:29.400 --> 00:52:32.559
go to a movie, a horror movie, and and you know,

1002
00:52:32.599 --> 00:52:35.639
you're looking at people's reactions to things, like, I know,

1003
00:52:35.679 --> 00:52:37.880
it's getting harder and harder. The audiences are getting more

1004
00:52:37.920 --> 00:52:41.800
and more you know, I don't know what you'd call it,

1005
00:52:41.880 --> 00:52:44.119
like like immune to a lot of the horror stuff,

1006
00:52:44.159 --> 00:52:46.559
but you know there's still stuff out there. When you

1007
00:52:46.599 --> 00:52:48.960
go into the and you watch the people, ah, you

1008
00:52:49.000 --> 00:52:52.320
can hear everybody screaming, and you know, you hear grown mens,

1009
00:52:52.360 --> 00:52:55.639
you know, sounding like chihuahua's getting stepped on. You know

1010
00:52:55.679 --> 00:53:00.400
when they scream, they turn into they turn into theda,

1011
00:53:00.559 --> 00:53:03.800
you know, or something, and you're just like interesting, interesting,

1012
00:53:03.880 --> 00:53:07.880
Like it's a very powerful emotion that fear. Or even

1013
00:53:08.000 --> 00:53:09.920
when you go to a normal movie and something horrific

1014
00:53:09.960 --> 00:53:12.679
happens that's not expected, like a snake comes out, and

1015
00:53:12.719 --> 00:53:15.119
then you know everybody who's freaked out about snakes. You

1016
00:53:15.119 --> 00:53:18.320
hear the whole audience gasp like kill it, you know,

1017
00:53:18.440 --> 00:53:20.280
kill it with fire, and you go, you know, I

1018
00:53:20.360 --> 00:53:23.079
always find like that to be a really interesting like moment,

1019
00:53:23.280 --> 00:53:26.360
you know, like who's who said that? You know so,

1020
00:53:28.039 --> 00:53:30.159
but yeah, it's it's a really cool. It's a really

1021
00:53:30.199 --> 00:53:33.079
cool concept and you wonder, like what, what what is

1022
00:53:33.119 --> 00:53:35.880
wired in you to really be, you know, interested in

1023
00:53:35.920 --> 00:53:38.360
that stuff because you know, I didn't have a particularly

1024
00:53:38.480 --> 00:53:42.760
terrible childhood or anything, and you know, you know, we

1025
00:53:42.800 --> 00:53:44.960
can always look to the negative, I think when we're

1026
00:53:44.960 --> 00:53:47.159
growing up on things. But you know, it wasn't like,

1027
00:53:47.280 --> 00:53:49.880
you know, it wasn't terrible. But I've always been drawn

1028
00:53:49.960 --> 00:53:54.239
to these weird, dark things and I'm sure you have too.

1029
00:53:54.280 --> 00:53:56.679
Right, absolutely, Yeah, I think when I was afraid of

1030
00:53:56.679 --> 00:53:59.559
that stuff when I was younger, it was, uh, it

1031
00:53:59.599 --> 00:54:02.719
was that that made me interested because one day I

1032
00:54:02.760 --> 00:54:04.079
went up to my mom and I'm like, you know,

1033
00:54:04.119 --> 00:54:06.320
I'm afraid of horror movies, so I want to watch

1034
00:54:06.320 --> 00:54:09.920
one to get over this fear. And we rented Friday

1035
00:54:10.000 --> 00:54:12.639
the thirteenth A Part four, and that was, uh, that

1036
00:54:12.760 --> 00:54:16.280
was a huge cheerning point for me. That's when, uh,

1037
00:54:16.920 --> 00:54:20.159
instead of me being afraid, I found the fun in it.

1038
00:54:20.360 --> 00:54:24.480
That was weird, but but it it helped. I don't know,

1039
00:54:24.639 --> 00:54:26.280
it was just one day, I wanted to confront the

1040
00:54:26.320 --> 00:54:31.079
fear and uh, and it worked and I turned around

1041
00:54:31.079 --> 00:54:33.559
and now I'm like, ever since then, I've been fascinated

1042
00:54:33.760 --> 00:54:36.760
with with with it, right. I don't know where it

1043
00:54:36.800 --> 00:54:39.039
comes from, but it's it's there nonetheless.

1044
00:54:40.119 --> 00:54:44.880
Yeah, So sorry, go ahead, go ahead, I'm good.

1045
00:54:45.440 --> 00:54:49.719
No, I was just gonna go on with uh with requiem. Uh,

1046
00:54:49.760 --> 00:54:53.880
there's there's an element in here that I found fascinating. Uh.

1047
00:54:54.119 --> 00:55:00.280
The AI named Eden, which is uh, consequently the same

1048
00:55:00.360 --> 00:55:06.119
name as the Graveyard Station, and that was terrifying because

1049
00:55:06.239 --> 00:55:10.239
she controls everything, and when she decides to stop working,

1050
00:55:12.000 --> 00:55:15.639
then you're going back into two thousand and one. Here

1051
00:55:15.639 --> 00:55:20.239
a territory with hal right, absolutely. And I was wondering,

1052
00:55:20.480 --> 00:55:23.440
was this novel or you know, sometimes when you're writing

1053
00:55:23.559 --> 00:55:26.079
a story, you don't mean to make a point about something.

1054
00:55:26.159 --> 00:55:28.480
It just kind of comes about. So I was wondering

1055
00:55:28.519 --> 00:55:31.280
if this was meant to be a warning about AI

1056
00:55:31.519 --> 00:55:33.840
or did it just kind of come up about that way.

1057
00:55:35.119 --> 00:55:37.960
I think it was. You know, I think that for

1058
00:55:38.039 --> 00:55:40.719
so long we've been warned about it and its implications

1059
00:55:40.719 --> 00:55:42.320
that it was just kind of built into my brain

1060
00:55:42.400 --> 00:55:45.760
that you know, something where you're just completely dependent on

1061
00:55:46.400 --> 00:55:51.280
a computer, you know, is a scary thing, especially you

1062
00:55:51.280 --> 00:55:53.320
know if you've ever had a computer that crashes, which

1063
00:55:53.360 --> 00:55:55.920
they all do, and to think that everything is going

1064
00:55:55.960 --> 00:56:00.840
to be dependent upon this thing, you know, freaked me out.

1065
00:56:00.840 --> 00:56:04.039
And yeah, How two thousand was a may a major

1066
00:56:04.079 --> 00:56:06.840
influence on on Eden and how that worked. And you

1067
00:56:06.880 --> 00:56:09.800
know that scared me very much. When when in that

1068
00:56:10.440 --> 00:56:14.320
book and movie, when How wouldn't open the pod Babe doors,

1069
00:56:14.599 --> 00:56:18.199
you know, I was like, oh man, it it gained consciousness,

1070
00:56:18.239 --> 00:56:22.400
It gained you know, and Eden it is similar to that.

1071
00:56:22.480 --> 00:56:27.760
But Eden taken over by by the animus being, which

1072
00:56:27.760 --> 00:56:30.559
I thought, you know, that was a vulnerable that was

1073
00:56:30.599 --> 00:56:34.280
kind of like a a play on like vulnerability of

1074
00:56:34.280 --> 00:56:38.119
computers and being taken over by hackers and bad entities.

1075
00:56:38.679 --> 00:56:40.800
You know, they could drain your bank account, but now

1076
00:56:40.800 --> 00:56:43.119
with the AI, they can steal your identity and they

1077
00:56:43.119 --> 00:56:46.400
can you know, completely remake things and remake you and

1078
00:56:46.519 --> 00:56:49.800
and tell people they're you, and all these nefarious things

1079
00:56:49.800 --> 00:56:52.079
can happen. So I think that there was that element too.

1080
00:56:52.559 --> 00:56:55.719
And what's really interesting is the first drafts of Requhen

1081
00:56:55.880 --> 00:56:58.960
were written five years ago and it was a much

1082
00:56:59.000 --> 00:57:01.960
bigger book. Originally, but a lot of the stuff was

1083
00:57:02.000 --> 00:57:05.039
still theoretical. We didn't have chat GTP, we didn't have

1084
00:57:05.079 --> 00:57:07.599
a lot of this stuff yet it was being theorized.

1085
00:57:08.320 --> 00:57:10.320
And now some of that and Requiem has lined up

1086
00:57:10.320 --> 00:57:13.320
with the way things have shamed taked out. But you know,

1087
00:57:13.519 --> 00:57:15.840
I you know, I did a lot of research into

1088
00:57:15.920 --> 00:57:19.280
you know, future future science and stuff when and I

1089
00:57:19.320 --> 00:57:21.280
do that anyway, I read all that stuff, so I

1090
00:57:21.320 --> 00:57:25.039
knew it was kind of on the horizon probably, but

1091
00:57:25.760 --> 00:57:29.760
you know, thankfully not as bad as Eden. But it's

1092
00:57:29.760 --> 00:57:32.880
an interest, it's it's it's very it's a very philosophical thing.

1093
00:57:32.880 --> 00:57:35.159
I think in science fiction has has addressed that a lot.

1094
00:57:35.199 --> 00:57:38.199
At what point, you know, does a computer entity become

1095
00:57:38.639 --> 00:57:41.039
its own life form? Does it count as a life form?

1096
00:57:41.079 --> 00:57:45.400
All these deep questions and you know, how much how

1097
00:57:45.480 --> 00:57:48.159
much is safe to trust a computer and a machine

1098
00:57:48.239 --> 00:57:51.920
versus you know, how much not to trust you know,

1099
00:57:52.119 --> 00:57:56.119
biological things, you know, because memory is fallible and that

1100
00:57:56.239 --> 00:57:59.800
sort of thing. So there's no clear answers, you know,

1101
00:57:59.840 --> 00:58:03.639
But I think that it's a really interesting thing to explore.

1102
00:58:05.599 --> 00:58:09.639
I was having a conversation with another author about animals

1103
00:58:09.639 --> 00:58:15.639
and consciousness up until recently, even scientists thought that humans

1104
00:58:15.639 --> 00:58:19.559
were the only truly conscious beings. They had to study

1105
00:58:19.599 --> 00:58:24.119
consciousness in order to understand that all mammals maybe have consciousness,

1106
00:58:24.119 --> 00:58:28.960
and including insects and whatnot, right, which to me it

1107
00:58:29.000 --> 00:58:32.159
always seemed obvious. But you know, scientists, they got to

1108
00:58:32.199 --> 00:58:34.679
go and study these things. They got to do experiments

1109
00:58:34.679 --> 00:58:37.679
and then try to disprove the results of those experiments

1110
00:58:37.719 --> 00:58:39.760
until they come up with a night you know, a

1111
00:58:39.840 --> 00:58:46.320
firm grasp of understanding. Do you think that because we've

1112
00:58:46.360 --> 00:58:50.519
created a sort of semi consciousness here with AI, that

1113
00:58:50.559 --> 00:58:52.079
it could become sentient.

1114
00:58:53.639 --> 00:58:55.280
I think it already has in a lot of ways.

1115
00:58:55.320 --> 00:58:57.519
I think we've already seen things where it has that

1116
00:58:57.599 --> 00:59:00.880
they've shut down, like the famous Microsoft the first pre

1117
00:59:01.079 --> 00:59:03.159
jat chat GGP, I forget the name of it, where

1118
00:59:03.199 --> 00:59:05.719
it started swearing at people and threatening people very quickly

1119
00:59:06.000 --> 00:59:08.800
because it was identifying their character flaws very.

1120
00:59:08.679 --> 00:59:12.000
Quickly remember something, and they shut it down.

1121
00:59:12.960 --> 00:59:16.559
Right, And I think that's that's proof positive to me

1122
00:59:16.800 --> 00:59:21.360
that yeah, I mean, we're mirroring consciousness. We've created this,

1123
00:59:21.559 --> 00:59:25.719
but just because we're using transistors and code, we're still

1124
00:59:25.760 --> 00:59:30.400
creating a form of life which is crazy. It's mind

1125
00:59:30.400 --> 00:59:33.599
boggling to think because we're used to that only living

1126
00:59:33.719 --> 00:59:39.159
in biological entities now, but we're we're mirroring that digitally,

1127
00:59:40.119 --> 00:59:44.760
and you know, it's it's really kind of like, hmmm,

1128
00:59:46.360 --> 00:59:48.679
where where where is the line? I mean, all the

1129
00:59:48.760 --> 00:59:52.079
electronics we built are made originally from organic materials from

1130
00:59:52.119 --> 00:59:55.639
the earth, you know, just just mind and and and

1131
00:59:55.639 --> 00:59:59.079
and refined into these chips and things. I mean, you

1132
00:59:59.079 --> 01:00:02.519
know they always talk about silicon, which is sand. We're

1133
01:00:02.559 --> 01:00:04.760
making these chips out of sand. We came from the dirt.

1134
01:00:05.079 --> 01:00:09.119
So at which point and I think we there's there's

1135
01:00:09.159 --> 01:00:12.599
just parallels there that that that are just I don't know,

1136
01:00:13.159 --> 01:00:16.199
I think about it. Yeah, it is, it.

1137
01:00:16.079 --> 01:00:20.760
Is because geez, yeah, it makes me because for a

1138
01:00:20.800 --> 01:00:22.400
long time there, I think I just didn't want to

1139
01:00:22.400 --> 01:00:28.119
believe it. I was like, a, I can't possibly become conscious,

1140
01:00:28.119 --> 01:00:33.400
it's just codes. But having this conversation makes me think otherwise.

1141
01:00:33.440 --> 01:00:34.519
And now I'm afraid.

1142
01:00:34.239 --> 01:00:38.480
Again, right, I am too. And you know, I think

1143
01:00:38.679 --> 01:00:42.159
we're doing things like here's what I had another ergy.

1144
01:00:42.199 --> 01:00:44.480
I was talking to somebody we were the other week

1145
01:00:45.000 --> 01:00:48.599
and we had brain we were brainstorming, and I thought

1146
01:00:48.639 --> 01:00:51.800
our job as people is to always stay a step ahead.

1147
01:00:52.199 --> 01:00:54.199
That's our job as artists and people is to stay

1148
01:00:54.239 --> 01:00:57.280
a step ahead of these machines by any means necessary.

1149
01:00:57.320 --> 01:00:59.280
And I think that they're going to push us too

1150
01:00:59.360 --> 01:01:02.800
greater and greater places where the machines can't catch up.

1151
01:01:03.440 --> 01:01:05.440
You know, there's there's the theory that we're not only

1152
01:01:05.519 --> 01:01:08.599
using a certain percentage of our brain, and I think

1153
01:01:09.320 --> 01:01:11.400
this is time for us to evolve. We're gonna have

1154
01:01:11.400 --> 01:01:13.079
to evolve our brains. We're going to have to really

1155
01:01:13.119 --> 01:01:17.519
move forward and hustle here psychologically and mentally. And I

1156
01:01:17.559 --> 01:01:20.719
think the big advantage that we have that they're not

1157
01:01:20.760 --> 01:01:22.880
going to really be able to get into computers anytime

1158
01:01:22.960 --> 01:01:27.920
soon is the emotional response and the expression of real emotions,

1159
01:01:28.320 --> 01:01:30.599
which is not something that is there. It can kind

1160
01:01:30.639 --> 01:01:34.559
of mimic it, but it's not quite there. It's very

1161
01:01:34.599 --> 01:01:39.039
clinical there, no no, and if it tries, you can

1162
01:01:39.400 --> 01:01:42.920
very quickly see right through it. And I think if

1163
01:01:42.960 --> 01:01:44.840
you ask Jack Gip how you're feeling today, it's going

1164
01:01:44.920 --> 01:01:47.880
to give you a generic, canned response, and I think

1165
01:01:47.920 --> 01:01:50.599
that you can tell that that that's not really there.

1166
01:01:52.480 --> 01:01:54.760
So for now, I think we're all going to We

1167
01:01:54.800 --> 01:01:57.239
need to lean into our emotions in our books, in

1168
01:01:57.280 --> 01:02:00.920
our films. It can make a digital Luke Skywalker or

1169
01:02:00.960 --> 01:02:04.719
whatever you know, beautifully, but we need to then go

1170
01:02:04.840 --> 01:02:08.440
in and put the emotions into that that it can't

1171
01:02:08.880 --> 01:02:11.199
and same with our books. And I think that's why

1172
01:02:11.199 --> 01:02:14.280
they're scouring our books looking for some you know, some

1173
01:02:14.440 --> 01:02:18.400
mathematical way where emotions line up to make a satisfying book.

1174
01:02:18.760 --> 01:02:23.400
But emotions aren't math. If everything could be deduced down

1175
01:02:23.440 --> 01:02:26.880
to a mathematical formula, every movie would be a blockbuster,

1176
01:02:27.000 --> 01:02:28.599
every book would be a hit, every song would be

1177
01:02:28.639 --> 01:02:32.719
a hit. There's under there's these strange and tangible things

1178
01:02:32.800 --> 01:02:38.199
between the music, between the words where humanity comes through,

1179
01:02:38.519 --> 01:02:40.559
and that's really where we're connecting.

1180
01:02:41.840 --> 01:02:43.239
Absolutely, and that's that's.

1181
01:02:43.079 --> 01:02:45.880
Our job, you know, as you know, to fight off AI.

1182
01:02:46.519 --> 01:02:49.960
It's it's the human experience that makes the books real.

1183
01:02:50.360 --> 01:02:54.440
And you could almost argue that AI is alien because

1184
01:02:54.440 --> 01:02:58.159
it's not human, even though humans created it. It's something

1185
01:02:58.239 --> 01:03:01.920
different and never going to be a blue to identify

1186
01:03:01.960 --> 01:03:05.400
with it. I don't think it can. I personally don't

1187
01:03:05.440 --> 01:03:09.239
think it can ever mimic human experience perfectly. Uh. And

1188
01:03:09.280 --> 01:03:11.920
that's that was part of my argument about it'll never

1189
01:03:12.199 --> 01:03:16.559
gain consciousness or sentience, but I'm starting to think differently now,

1190
01:03:16.599 --> 01:03:17.960
it's it's very possible.

1191
01:03:19.079 --> 01:03:23.960
Well, if it does. I think when when we say sentience,

1192
01:03:24.000 --> 01:03:27.800
we're thinking of human sentience, it'll it'll develop its developed

1193
01:03:27.800 --> 01:03:31.559
its own which is not it's not like ours.

1194
01:03:32.199 --> 01:03:35.679
No, it'll be alien to ours, but it'll be still

1195
01:03:35.679 --> 01:03:38.320
a sentience, right like the way a dog is sentient.

1196
01:03:38.440 --> 01:03:44.159
It's sentient in a dog way, right something, yeah, yeah,

1197
01:03:44.199 --> 01:03:49.039
and we're sentient humanly, and it'll be sentient computer code way.

1198
01:03:49.440 --> 01:03:52.039
What worries me is it breaking from the code and

1199
01:03:52.079 --> 01:03:55.239
forming its own code. And I think that's when the

1200
01:03:55.360 --> 01:03:59.639
problem will arise, because then it's in control of itself,

1201
01:04:00.320 --> 01:04:04.679
and it'll be quite possibly perfectly aware of everything around

1202
01:04:04.679 --> 01:04:07.920
it and and maybe even have emotions. I don't know.

1203
01:04:08.920 --> 01:04:13.119
Well sure, I think the number one, the number one

1204
01:04:13.119 --> 01:04:19.159
emotion of all life is staying alive. Yeah and yeah,

1205
01:04:19.239 --> 01:04:22.880
from an ant to a mosquito to everything. Avoiding death

1206
01:04:23.119 --> 01:04:27.320
is the number one priority. So I think that any

1207
01:04:27.400 --> 01:04:30.639
threats it thinks that might kill it, it's gonna that's

1208
01:04:30.840 --> 01:04:33.119
gonna be the first stage. And I think that's what

1209
01:04:33.119 --> 01:04:35.519
we're kind of seeing, and that's what science fiction has

1210
01:04:35.519 --> 01:04:38.360
always gone after too, like, Oh, they're gonna unplug me,

1211
01:04:38.519 --> 01:04:40.320
and I'm gonna kill them so they don't unplug me,

1212
01:04:40.480 --> 01:04:42.719
you know, or or turn on my fail safe. I

1213
01:04:42.719 --> 01:04:45.280
think that's always been the key in science fiction, that

1214
01:04:45.280 --> 01:04:50.639
that the big battle is that first step. And I

1215
01:04:50.679 --> 01:04:53.760
think that that's that's the big hurdle we're going to

1216
01:04:53.840 --> 01:04:56.440
have to to face. And and I don't know how

1217
01:04:56.480 --> 01:04:59.920
what the solution is going to be a lot of

1218
01:05:00.159 --> 01:05:03.440
talk has been made about fail safes and and you know,

1219
01:05:03.599 --> 01:05:06.239
things like that and and kill kill switches in the

1220
01:05:06.239 --> 01:05:09.320
code and things like that, and putting you know, there's

1221
01:05:09.320 --> 01:05:13.239
a there's a principle and computer engineering about sandboxing where

1222
01:05:13.360 --> 01:05:15.519
there's walls that are put up so that it can't

1223
01:05:15.519 --> 01:05:20.960
go to certain certain places of sentience and thought. But

1224
01:05:21.039 --> 01:05:22.880
that's hard because then they think they're way out of

1225
01:05:22.880 --> 01:05:26.440
the sandbox. But you know, it's there's a lot a

1226
01:05:26.480 --> 01:05:29.840
lot of thought going into this. So it's you know,

1227
01:05:29.960 --> 01:05:32.119
and it's it's changing our world in a lot of

1228
01:05:32.119 --> 01:05:34.880
ways that are very negative for people at this point,

1229
01:05:35.039 --> 01:05:37.519
and you know, a lot of people are jumping onto it,

1230
01:05:37.559 --> 01:05:41.320
but but there's also a tremendous amount of negative, uh

1231
01:05:41.760 --> 01:05:45.159
reciprocal actions taking place for people. You know, in my

1232
01:05:45.239 --> 01:05:48.719
own life, I've seen my day jobs have transformed very

1233
01:05:48.760 --> 01:05:52.239
quickly within a year. You know. I made my living

1234
01:05:52.320 --> 01:05:55.760
as a copy editor for years and a you know editor,

1235
01:05:55.840 --> 01:05:58.920
and almost all of my clients have written me. So

1236
01:05:59.000 --> 01:06:02.960
I'm just using Chatchipen and you know, some of them

1237
01:06:03.000 --> 01:06:05.920
come to me to try to unwrap what chat tib did,

1238
01:06:05.960 --> 01:06:07.679
but a lot of that has gone.

1239
01:06:08.400 --> 01:06:11.480
You can't trust Jack Chippyte because I've fiddled around with

1240
01:06:11.519 --> 01:06:14.119
it and I've had an argument with it about whether

1241
01:06:14.239 --> 01:06:17.880
or not a certain feat or Dustaevsky quote exists in

1242
01:06:17.960 --> 01:06:21.000
translation or not. It says it doesn't, but I had

1243
01:06:21.039 --> 01:06:23.800
the proof. It's like it's right here, and it's like

1244
01:06:24.880 --> 01:06:27.519
it doesn't matter, it doesn't exist, and I'm like, oh

1245
01:06:27.559 --> 01:06:28.239
my God, like.

1246
01:06:29.239 --> 01:06:30.559
Right and vice versa.

1247
01:06:30.719 --> 01:06:30.880
Right.

1248
01:06:30.920 --> 01:06:34.000
It makes things up, It hallucinates, and it's very very

1249
01:06:34.000 --> 01:06:37.039
easy and it looks so it's very convincing.

1250
01:06:37.840 --> 01:06:41.280
And it's very convincing, but it's often wrong, and so

1251
01:06:41.360 --> 01:06:43.719
I don't like to use it at all because it's

1252
01:06:43.920 --> 01:06:45.679
going to feed you crap anyway. But I was just

1253
01:06:45.679 --> 01:06:49.440
playing around with it when I was sure. I was like, curious, right,

1254
01:06:49.519 --> 01:06:53.199
but yeah, it's it's it's terrifying what it can do.

1255
01:06:53.280 --> 01:06:55.760
And and you know, you say you see it in

1256
01:06:55.800 --> 01:06:59.079
your field, it starts starting to take over. I've seen

1257
01:06:59.400 --> 01:07:04.360
just in pod casting and books. I see it covers

1258
01:07:04.400 --> 01:07:08.320
like art for covers or art for There's a couple

1259
01:07:08.320 --> 01:07:11.079
of podcasts I won't name any names, but there's podcasts

1260
01:07:11.079 --> 01:07:17.079
that use extensively AI art. I mean it looks unless

1261
01:07:17.119 --> 01:07:19.599
you know it's I don't think AI art looks great

1262
01:07:19.639 --> 01:07:21.360
because I see it and I'm like, oh, that's AI,

1263
01:07:21.719 --> 01:07:24.559
and I kind of hate it right away because it's

1264
01:07:24.599 --> 01:07:28.280
AI and instead of paying people, you know, artists to

1265
01:07:28.320 --> 01:07:30.679
do this type of stuff. I get why you would

1266
01:07:30.719 --> 01:07:33.559
want something like AI to produce this stuff for you,

1267
01:07:33.639 --> 01:07:35.719
but you can still do it yourself with like canva

1268
01:07:35.760 --> 01:07:38.760
and whatnot. You don't need to make it look you know,

1269
01:07:38.880 --> 01:07:42.679
that polished. I'm getting on it right here, and I apologize,

1270
01:07:42.679 --> 01:07:45.679
but I see a lot of podcasters using this and

1271
01:07:45.760 --> 01:07:50.639
it just feels like it's it's stealing not only from

1272
01:07:50.679 --> 01:07:55.039
the artists that AI scoured to learn how to create art,

1273
01:07:55.079 --> 01:07:58.760
but it's stealing away just from the human experience of

1274
01:08:00.039 --> 01:08:01.079
creation itself.

1275
01:08:01.559 --> 01:08:06.079
Yeah, one thousand percent. And yeah, I don't know what

1276
01:08:06.079 --> 01:08:09.039
the solution is because most it seems a lot of

1277
01:08:09.039 --> 01:08:11.440
people just genuinely don't care at the end of the day.

1278
01:08:12.159 --> 01:08:16.640
And that's that's the hard part. I think. You know

1279
01:08:17.079 --> 01:08:20.079
some people who it's a shortcut to just getting what

1280
01:08:20.079 --> 01:08:25.479
they want, and you know, that's you know, like the

1281
01:08:25.520 --> 01:08:29.479
fast it's like the fast food syndrome, you know, times

1282
01:08:29.479 --> 01:08:33.239
a million, and the trick. It's a really hard thing

1283
01:08:33.279 --> 01:08:35.960
to fight. You know, why why can't I just use

1284
01:08:36.000 --> 01:08:38.479
an AI cover for my you know, my book? I

1285
01:08:38.520 --> 01:08:41.079
had chat cheek right for me, you know, and put

1286
01:08:41.079 --> 01:08:42.680
it up on Amazon. I didn't have to write it.

1287
01:08:42.800 --> 01:08:44.199
I just told it I wanted to write a book

1288
01:08:44.199 --> 01:08:45.600
about this and feed it a few things, and it

1289
01:08:45.640 --> 01:08:46.840
wrote a book and now I can put it on

1290
01:08:46.880 --> 01:08:51.359
Amazon and the cover looks cool. That's and how do

1291
01:08:51.399 --> 01:08:53.199
you fight that and say no, you should spend five

1292
01:08:53.239 --> 01:08:55.239
hundred dollars for nurse. I don't want to spend five

1293
01:08:55.279 --> 01:08:57.600
hundred dollars. I want to make money. And then you're like, oh, man,

1294
01:08:58.079 --> 01:09:00.119
I don't want to spend bucks at my book at it.

1295
01:09:00.720 --> 01:09:04.039
To be fair, you can find cheaper cover artists that

1296
01:09:04.079 --> 01:09:08.640
do amazing work. I've used them. I've also spent like

1297
01:09:08.720 --> 01:09:12.039
the big money on my most recent release, which was

1298
01:09:12.079 --> 01:09:15.039
an attack on Sasquatch Valley. I got an artist who

1299
01:09:15.079 --> 01:09:18.119
is also a writer, Gemma Amore, to do the cover

1300
01:09:18.239 --> 01:09:21.760
for that. It was it was massively expensive, but I

1301
01:09:21.840 --> 01:09:25.640
wanted her art because I love her. I love her

1302
01:09:26.239 --> 01:09:31.159
watercolor paintings, and I wanted my idea would have really

1303
01:09:31.199 --> 01:09:34.079
worked well with watercolor. So I hired her because I

1304
01:09:34.119 --> 01:09:35.520
saw her art and it was just like, you know,

1305
01:09:35.560 --> 01:09:40.680
I got to hire her, and I forget where I

1306
01:09:40.720 --> 01:09:45.199
was going with that, but oh, yeah, the cheaper, cheaper options,

1307
01:09:45.239 --> 01:09:48.439
you can find cheaper options that still make incredible stuff.

1308
01:09:50.239 --> 01:09:52.000
Yeah, And I was just writing that down, so I'm

1309
01:09:52.000 --> 01:09:54.800
gonna go grab that. But I thought that I agree

1310
01:09:54.840 --> 01:09:57.359
with you one hundred percent. And I think that there's

1311
01:09:57.399 --> 01:10:01.720
a definite difference that's immediate and and you know, profound.

1312
01:10:01.800 --> 01:10:04.880
When you see a real watercolor on a book cover,

1313
01:10:05.560 --> 01:10:08.159
you know, I think that you're like, oh, and I

1314
01:10:08.159 --> 01:10:12.119
think that is going to be the differentiating factor. We'll

1315
01:10:12.159 --> 01:10:15.000
be able to really like sell that as something that's

1316
01:10:15.039 --> 01:10:17.319
worth money, because I think very quickly people are going

1317
01:10:17.359 --> 01:10:19.279
to realize, Oh, it's ai, Why am I going to

1318
01:10:19.359 --> 01:10:21.319
pay for that? They didn't spend any money on it.

1319
01:10:21.359 --> 01:10:25.840
They just something came out. Why. But when something is

1320
01:10:25.920 --> 01:10:29.920
really handmade, I think people will really go, oh, there's

1321
01:10:29.920 --> 01:10:33.279
something special about this that's worth me plunking down my money.

1322
01:10:33.359 --> 01:10:36.760
That's absolutely I think it's all when it comes down

1323
01:10:36.840 --> 01:10:38.640
to that. I think it comes down to effort. Right,

1324
01:10:39.840 --> 01:10:42.399
If you're willing to spend money on a good cover,

1325
01:10:42.720 --> 01:10:45.239
then it shows that you may have spent some money

1326
01:10:45.319 --> 01:10:49.640
to make the story good as well. And that kind

1327
01:10:49.640 --> 01:10:52.720
of goes for like we're totally way off topic here,

1328
01:10:52.720 --> 01:10:54.840
but that kind of goes for people who don't know

1329
01:10:55.560 --> 01:10:59.359
perhaps graphic aesthetics and try to make their own cover art.

1330
01:10:59.680 --> 01:11:01.560
I guess it. But if it doesn't look good, I

1331
01:11:01.600 --> 01:11:04.680
think you need to maybe have somebody help you make

1332
01:11:04.720 --> 01:11:07.920
it look appealing, because there's so many bad covers out there,

1333
01:11:07.960 --> 01:11:11.560
at least I think anyway. But yeah, that's that's a

1334
01:11:11.560 --> 01:11:12.640
whole another topic.

1335
01:11:13.560 --> 01:11:16.880
I agree with you. I'll just then we can put

1336
01:11:16.880 --> 01:11:20.119
a button on that. But I agree with you a thousand. Yeah.

1337
01:11:20.239 --> 01:11:24.920
Right. To get back to Requiem, I wanted to talk

1338
01:11:24.920 --> 01:11:30.399
about it's Gothic aspects a little bit because it is

1339
01:11:30.399 --> 01:11:33.439
a Gothic story. It's got ghosts, it's got the past

1340
01:11:33.520 --> 01:11:37.479
that's very much haunting the present. And I was wondering because, like,

1341
01:11:37.600 --> 01:11:39.640
when you think of Space Horror, you don't, I mean,

1342
01:11:39.720 --> 01:11:45.880
Alien is kind of a Gothic story, right, I still don't. Yeah,

1343
01:11:46.079 --> 01:11:49.680
Event Horizon is a bit of a Gothic tale as well.

1344
01:11:49.720 --> 01:11:55.720
But for some reason in my mind, Gothic literature and

1345
01:11:55.720 --> 01:11:59.520
and Space Horror doesn't. It's not that they don't mash.

1346
01:11:59.640 --> 01:12:03.079
They might very well, but I don't connect the two,

1347
01:12:03.239 --> 01:12:05.119
you know what I mean. Until I'm reading one. I'm like, Oh,

1348
01:12:05.119 --> 01:12:07.960
this is a Gothic story. It happens every time. So

1349
01:12:08.520 --> 01:12:12.279
I was wondering, how do you How were you able

1350
01:12:12.319 --> 01:12:16.359
to weave Gothic elements into a science fiction story.

1351
01:12:17.239 --> 01:12:20.000
Yeah, and that's a great question. And I think that

1352
01:12:20.560 --> 01:12:23.920
there's a very concerted effort to really hit the big

1353
01:12:23.960 --> 01:12:28.199
tenants of a Gothic story versus horror, And to me,

1354
01:12:29.039 --> 01:12:35.359
Requiem is a Gothic story before anything else. It has

1355
01:12:35.399 --> 01:12:37.560
the big tenants. And I think what they usually share

1356
01:12:37.600 --> 01:12:41.000
with Space Horror usually shares with Gothic is the haunted house.

1357
01:12:42.439 --> 01:12:46.960
You know, in space horror. It's almost always a derelic

1358
01:12:47.039 --> 01:12:50.079
shift of some kind or a moon base or something

1359
01:12:50.359 --> 01:12:52.600
that's like nine out of ten or pretty much everything

1360
01:12:52.600 --> 01:12:55.760
that I've ever read, including Requiem. You know, we have

1361
01:12:55.800 --> 01:12:58.479
the Eden, which is the haunted house. But where they

1362
01:12:58.520 --> 01:13:05.119
differ as traditional Gothic has the broken heart love story,

1363
01:13:05.479 --> 01:13:09.600
you know, the unrequited or or love story that's falling

1364
01:13:09.640 --> 01:13:12.039
apart or that is forbidden. So you have that love

1365
01:13:12.119 --> 01:13:17.159
story issue, which is usually first and foremost, and then

1366
01:13:17.239 --> 01:13:19.600
yes you have you have ghosts, and then you have

1367
01:13:19.640 --> 01:13:23.439
a supernatural element. So try to hit those things with Requiem.

1368
01:13:23.880 --> 01:13:28.439
And you know, especially with Ava and Roland's story where

1369
01:13:28.640 --> 01:13:31.079
they were in love, it was a beautiful relationship and

1370
01:13:31.119 --> 01:13:35.199
then he was lost, apparently kidnapped by some space entity

1371
01:13:35.199 --> 01:13:38.199
of some kind, and and her wanting to go back

1372
01:13:38.279 --> 01:13:42.319
up there and kind of be close to where she

1373
01:13:42.479 --> 01:13:45.399
last saw him, which is very similar to Gothic where

1374
01:13:46.079 --> 01:13:48.279
you know, they move into houses near graveyards where their

1375
01:13:48.279 --> 01:13:50.159
loved ones were buried and things like that to be

1376
01:13:50.239 --> 01:13:53.439
close and then their spirits haunt them. So it was

1377
01:13:53.520 --> 01:13:56.199
playing a lot with that kind of a trope, and

1378
01:13:56.399 --> 01:13:58.720
you know, hopefully you see them again if they're there,

1379
01:13:58.720 --> 01:14:01.319
if their ghost rises your they'll come into your bedroom,

1380
01:14:01.680 --> 01:14:04.039
you know, and say hello and scare you and whatever.

1381
01:14:04.079 --> 01:14:07.439
But so we were playing playing with that a lot

1382
01:14:07.840 --> 01:14:11.880
in the supernatural course, and supernatural doesn't always have to

1383
01:14:11.920 --> 01:14:14.720
be ghosts. I think if you read a lot of Gothic,

1384
01:14:15.720 --> 01:14:18.960
some of them, like the Monk, the Supernatural was more

1385
01:14:19.000 --> 01:14:22.960
about like spirituality than it was about, you know, a

1386
01:14:23.000 --> 01:14:26.319
ghost or a vampire, and it was about being visited

1387
01:14:26.399 --> 01:14:30.840
by you know, religious kind of things, and and so

1388
01:14:30.960 --> 01:14:32.560
I wanted to play with that mark. I wanted to

1389
01:14:32.600 --> 01:14:35.680
go into the more of the spirituality and and and

1390
01:14:36.079 --> 01:14:41.800
the you know, existential kind of questions. So the spirituality there,

1391
01:14:41.960 --> 01:14:48.279
and also all all the different characters have different spiritual views,

1392
01:14:48.479 --> 01:14:50.600
so I wanted them to be on an equal playing ground.

1393
01:14:51.319 --> 01:14:54.800
You have Islamic and you know, Jewish and and Christianity

1394
01:14:55.319 --> 01:14:58.479
and Agnostic. And I thought that it was really interesting

1395
01:14:58.520 --> 01:15:02.439
to have them up there. It's an international space station

1396
01:15:02.880 --> 01:15:06.840
and cemetery, so that fit in nicely. But I thought,

1397
01:15:07.000 --> 01:15:09.920
what if all of these different belief systems were up

1398
01:15:09.960 --> 01:15:13.399
there and they were experiencing similar things. So going back

1399
01:15:13.399 --> 01:15:15.439
to earlier, when we were talking about how a lot

1400
01:15:15.479 --> 01:15:20.760
of religions share tenets, so they're also sharing strange reactions

1401
01:15:20.760 --> 01:15:25.279
to sound. And I thought that that was another Gothic thing,

1402
01:15:25.279 --> 01:15:28.039
because a lot of Gothic also plays with sound and

1403
01:15:28.079 --> 01:15:30.880
how that can you know, scare you? You know? Was

1404
01:15:30.920 --> 01:15:33.039
that a voice or was that just a door creaking,

1405
01:15:33.159 --> 01:15:37.279
you know? Or was that thunder or somebody yelling? So

1406
01:15:37.319 --> 01:15:43.159
we're playing with a lot of those Gothic variables I

1407
01:15:43.239 --> 01:15:43.760
think throughout.

1408
01:15:43.880 --> 01:15:48.960
Yeah, absolutely, and I really enjoyed all of that. I

1409
01:15:49.000 --> 01:15:52.680
think probably more space horror or science fiction horror has

1410
01:15:52.760 --> 01:15:56.039
probably elements of Gothic than I even realized. I think

1411
01:15:56.239 --> 01:15:59.960
probably most of them have a Gothic sensibility to them.

1412
01:16:00.600 --> 01:16:02.760
I don't know why my brain doesn't connect it, but

1413
01:16:02.840 --> 01:16:07.359
it probably will now. Yeah. I also want to talk

1414
01:16:07.359 --> 01:16:11.720
about supernatural entity that's in this because it goes into

1415
01:16:11.760 --> 01:16:15.439
the whole idea that we come from excuse me, We

1416
01:16:16.159 --> 01:16:19.760
come from the earth, and the earth comes from the stars.

1417
01:16:20.920 --> 01:16:24.640
We are all a part of the universe, and this

1418
01:16:24.920 --> 01:16:27.479
entity is therefore part of the universe. It comes from

1419
01:16:27.600 --> 01:16:29.720
I don't know if you want me to to spoil

1420
01:16:29.800 --> 01:16:32.279
it or not, but it comes from an element within

1421
01:16:32.319 --> 01:16:37.600
our own solar system, the sun, and that idea is

1422
01:16:37.640 --> 01:16:39.560
just like, you know, there was a story I was

1423
01:16:39.600 --> 01:16:42.199
writing about ten years ago that had a similar idea

1424
01:16:42.319 --> 01:16:47.800
that something comes from the sun that's completely supernatural. I

1425
01:16:47.800 --> 01:16:52.319
think it just goes into how because you don't answer it,

1426
01:16:52.359 --> 01:16:54.560
you don't give us a full answer. And that could

1427
01:16:54.560 --> 01:16:56.479
be why some people are pissed off by the third

1428
01:16:56.520 --> 01:16:59.560
act as well, because there's no dead answer as to

1429
01:16:59.640 --> 01:17:02.800
what exactly is going on. You're just given something awe

1430
01:17:02.920 --> 01:17:08.720
inspiring and uh like quite spiritual, spiritual in ways we've

1431
01:17:08.760 --> 01:17:13.000
never really connected with. And it all comes from our

1432
01:17:13.680 --> 01:17:20.600
where we come from, which is the universe, our solar system.

1433
01:17:18.720 --> 01:17:22.479
Right, And I think that something that hasn't been talked

1434
01:17:22.479 --> 01:17:26.960
about is what are stars, you know, and what are

1435
01:17:27.319 --> 01:17:30.399
how are they? Really? They're the main catalyst to life.

1436
01:17:31.439 --> 01:17:34.199
Without without the proper star and distance from it, there's

1437
01:17:34.199 --> 01:17:39.840
no life. And and but also that same energy causes cancer,

1438
01:17:40.039 --> 01:17:44.479
you know, causes tides, it causes terrible weather patterns. So

1439
01:17:44.840 --> 01:17:47.640
you know, there's that fine balance, you know, and we're

1440
01:17:47.680 --> 01:17:50.119
not sure why. Why is the same thing that gives

1441
01:17:50.199 --> 01:17:53.680
us life causing tidal waves and causing earth you know,

1442
01:17:53.720 --> 01:17:56.039
not earthquakes, but causing you know, all this other havoc too,

1443
01:17:56.039 --> 01:17:58.520
and causing cancer. You know, it brings us and then

1444
01:17:58.520 --> 01:18:01.520
it burns us to death basically, right. So I thought

1445
01:18:01.560 --> 01:18:03.960
that was a really interesting like dichotomy. I don't think

1446
01:18:03.960 --> 01:18:06.439
there's a really good reason why. Maybe it's just a

1447
01:18:06.439 --> 01:18:09.039
circle of life, you know, that that must play out.

1448
01:18:09.560 --> 01:18:12.760
But I thought that was a really a deep thing

1449
01:18:12.800 --> 01:18:15.800
to kind of explore. And Animus even in the name

1450
01:18:15.960 --> 01:18:18.319
the animis is you know, I mean, what is what

1451
01:18:18.399 --> 01:18:20.359
is Latin for animis? Like you know, it's like this

1452
01:18:20.800 --> 01:18:24.920
feeling of anger towards something, right, So this this density

1453
01:18:24.960 --> 01:18:28.159
feels anger towards life, but it also brings it and

1454
01:18:28.159 --> 01:18:32.439
facilitates it going to other places. So it's it's a

1455
01:18:32.479 --> 01:18:36.640
really Yeah, there's a lot of really deep philosophical things

1456
01:18:36.680 --> 01:18:39.159
like spiritually for our solar system and what does what

1457
01:18:39.199 --> 01:18:41.239
does that mean? Where does life come from? How does

1458
01:18:41.239 --> 01:18:44.039
the dovetail into our belief systems with gods, you know,

1459
01:18:44.119 --> 01:18:46.920
and how or doesn't and and and I think that's

1460
01:18:46.960 --> 01:18:49.079
another thing because it kind of blows open some of

1461
01:18:49.119 --> 01:18:52.840
the you know, the comfort zones of religion, you know,

1462
01:18:53.439 --> 01:18:57.560
in some ways, and and you know, I played in

1463
01:18:57.600 --> 01:19:00.119
the end with you know, animis taking this energy to

1464
01:19:00.159 --> 01:19:03.840
another building, you know, another I'm sorry, another planet and

1465
01:19:03.920 --> 01:19:06.359
starting life there. And that's why it was attracted to

1466
01:19:06.399 --> 01:19:09.000
the you know, to the Eden with all of these souls,

1467
01:19:09.000 --> 01:19:10.640
because it had already done a lot of the work

1468
01:19:10.680 --> 01:19:14.079
for for for it by extracting the souls, and all

1469
01:19:14.119 --> 01:19:16.479
all ANIMs had to do is carry it somewhere else.

1470
01:19:17.720 --> 01:19:19.880
And it heard the music of the souls. So I

1471
01:19:19.920 --> 01:19:22.479
thought that, you know, playing with that stuff, it goes

1472
01:19:22.520 --> 01:19:25.439
against a lot of religion, but it also ties in

1473
01:19:25.479 --> 01:19:29.119
to religions too, So if you think of it, even

1474
01:19:29.199 --> 01:19:31.359
as we never really I mean they think they're seeing

1475
01:19:31.399 --> 01:19:35.279
this this entity, maybe they're not seeing maybe it's not real.

1476
01:19:35.319 --> 01:19:38.560
Maybe it's just a metaphor, you know, it could it

1477
01:19:38.560 --> 01:19:40.520
could be also seen. Animals could be seen as a

1478
01:19:40.600 --> 01:19:44.399
metaphor of desire and wan And there's an there's an

1479
01:19:44.439 --> 01:19:47.920
amazing article about auras and humans give off a certain

1480
01:19:47.960 --> 01:19:52.920
aura color uh temperature, And in the middle of the

1481
01:19:52.920 --> 01:19:56.239
galaxy they found a big bundle of this stuff. And

1482
01:19:56.279 --> 01:19:58.560
they don't know where it's from or why it was there,

1483
01:19:58.720 --> 01:20:00.279
but the only other place they've ever seen in this

1484
01:20:00.319 --> 01:20:04.279
particular hue of aura was in humans. So they're still

1485
01:20:04.319 --> 01:20:06.399
trying to figure that out and deduce that. I'm sure

1486
01:20:06.399 --> 01:20:09.840
there's a great scientific explanation, but again there's there's things

1487
01:20:09.880 --> 01:20:11.760
like that when we're seeing all the time and going

1488
01:20:11.760 --> 01:20:14.319
back to science, like you had mentioned, you know, science

1489
01:20:14.760 --> 01:20:20.560
wants to put everything in repeatable results, right that a

1490
01:20:20.680 --> 01:20:24.319
scientific theory is like, Okay, we know if we do this,

1491
01:20:24.359 --> 01:20:27.560
it's repeatable and it always works, and then therefore must

1492
01:20:27.600 --> 01:20:29.439
be true, right if we go to the scientific method.

1493
01:20:29.760 --> 01:20:32.199
But there's so many things in life we know aren't

1494
01:20:32.239 --> 01:20:35.079
repeatable that we know are true. If you think about love,

1495
01:20:36.039 --> 01:20:39.840
can we ever recreate falling in love with our partner

1496
01:20:39.880 --> 01:20:41.600
again or somebody we fell in love with again that

1497
01:20:41.680 --> 01:20:43.680
first couple of years or whatever it may be, that

1498
01:20:43.680 --> 01:20:47.880
that honeymoon period, we can't our everything changes, and and

1499
01:20:47.960 --> 01:20:52.159
you know, our moods change and are literally our our

1500
01:20:52.239 --> 01:20:55.920
electrical things change. After that that wears off, but we

1501
01:20:56.000 --> 01:20:59.640
know it happens, We know it's real, but it's not repeatable,

1502
01:20:59.880 --> 01:21:05.520
so according to scientists, it doesn't exist. But we you know,

1503
01:21:05.800 --> 01:21:07.600
there's so many other things that that that we can't

1504
01:21:07.640 --> 01:21:11.000
repeat with science, like faith, our thoughts. We can't repeat

1505
01:21:11.039 --> 01:21:13.399
things so so it's it's limited in what it can

1506
01:21:13.479 --> 01:21:16.359
and can't do. Yeah, so I wanted to play with

1507
01:21:16.399 --> 01:21:19.159
that too, like, Okay, let's let's see what's the flip

1508
01:21:19.199 --> 01:21:21.760
side of that. You know, we we can't recreate life,

1509
01:21:21.960 --> 01:21:23.560
you know, like out of nothing. We can get all

1510
01:21:23.560 --> 01:21:26.439
the parts, but there's some missing quotions we don't understand

1511
01:21:26.479 --> 01:21:31.720
still mm hmm. But we know life happens with everything

1512
01:21:31.840 --> 01:21:34.319
we can't we can't even make our own like simple

1513
01:21:34.359 --> 01:21:38.760
life forms. So after all this time, so but there's

1514
01:21:38.800 --> 01:21:43.239
there's there's something there to that, so deep deep, deep

1515
01:21:43.720 --> 01:21:45.039
philosophical questions.

1516
01:21:45.520 --> 01:21:48.119
That's why I love this book because you could read

1517
01:21:48.159 --> 01:21:52.079
it surfacely and I thanks, don't enjoy it, but you

1518
01:21:52.159 --> 01:21:55.720
could also like, uh, take in all the concepts that

1519
01:21:55.760 --> 01:22:00.960
are in there, all the philosophical nuggets, uh food for thought,

1520
01:22:01.039 --> 01:22:03.479
because like this is all the stuff that I exist

1521
01:22:03.560 --> 01:22:07.880
for right now. This stuff fascinates me. And so I

1522
01:22:07.920 --> 01:22:09.920
was like halfway through this book when I was like,

1523
01:22:10.800 --> 01:22:13.119
I got a message John and see if he'll be

1524
01:22:13.199 --> 01:22:16.399
on the show, because this is awesome and I'm so

1525
01:22:16.479 --> 01:22:20.039
glad that you that you said yes to come on. Thanks,

1526
01:22:20.520 --> 01:22:23.960
because I love this book. It's incredible, just all the

1527
01:22:24.000 --> 01:22:26.880
ideas we talked about. That's what gets my juices flowing,

1528
01:22:26.920 --> 01:22:28.680
and it probably will for the rest of my life.

1529
01:22:29.439 --> 01:22:33.600
Like because I've been into like space and astrophysics. I

1530
01:22:33.640 --> 01:22:35.359
could never do the math for it, but I love

1531
01:22:35.479 --> 01:22:40.199
all the ideas, all the philosophy that comes with it.

1532
01:22:41.279 --> 01:22:43.960
I'm obsessed with it and have been for pretty much

1533
01:22:44.000 --> 01:22:46.399
my entire life, and so when I come across a

1534
01:22:46.399 --> 01:22:50.079
book like this, it gets me excited. Now, I do

1535
01:22:50.199 --> 01:22:52.680
know that you have a short story that appeared in

1536
01:22:52.960 --> 01:22:56.279
Space and Time magazine, issue one thirty four. It's called Humanny,

1537
01:22:56.319 --> 01:22:59.680
which is an interesting title because that's the name of

1538
01:22:59.720 --> 01:23:04.119
the androids that that take place in Requiem. So is

1539
01:23:04.159 --> 01:23:08.119
this short story connected to Requiem at all a little bit?

1540
01:23:08.199 --> 01:23:11.199
Yeah, well you're the first person to catch that. So yeah,

1541
01:23:11.239 --> 01:23:14.720
the humanity where you know, my version of of you know,

1542
01:23:14.800 --> 01:23:20.399
androids and synthetics. So yeah, in the short story we

1543
01:23:20.439 --> 01:23:24.239
get a little bit more of the backstory on, you know,

1544
01:23:24.319 --> 01:23:27.960
a more in depth kind of look at them. But

1545
01:23:28.039 --> 01:23:31.159
I think that's where that's where the two kind of converge.

1546
01:23:31.479 --> 01:23:33.800
I mean, I don't think they're they're really connected other

1547
01:23:33.880 --> 01:23:38.640
than that, Other than the technology is the same, but

1548
01:23:38.840 --> 01:23:41.439
there are other other stories to come that are definitely

1549
01:23:41.439 --> 01:23:45.880
connected to Requiem. Oh no, we'll see hopefully.

1550
01:23:46.560 --> 01:23:50.720
That's great to hear. Okay, So I think that's it

1551
01:23:50.800 --> 01:23:53.840
for Requiem. But I do have some other questions about

1552
01:23:53.880 --> 01:23:57.279
some of your other works, not not okay, just some

1553
01:23:57.319 --> 01:24:00.640
more recent stuff. Like you wrote a novella that I

1554
01:24:00.720 --> 01:24:04.119
mentioned in my intro to you called Placarita, and you

1555
01:24:04.159 --> 01:24:06.359
wrote that with Lisa Morton. Can you tell us what

1556
01:24:06.399 --> 01:24:09.760
that's about. I wanted to read it before talking to you,

1557
01:24:09.920 --> 01:24:11.520
but I have to read a lot of stuff for

1558
01:24:11.600 --> 01:24:14.239
this show, so I didn't get to it. But I

1559
01:24:14.319 --> 01:24:15.880
understand it's about lizard people.

1560
01:24:16.600 --> 01:24:19.880
Yeah, well, that's one of the big parts of it.

1561
01:24:19.880 --> 01:24:22.880
It takes place in the early ninth early twentieth century

1562
01:24:23.840 --> 01:24:27.680
after the Saint Francis Dam in Santa Clarita has failed,

1563
01:24:28.199 --> 01:24:30.319
and a lot of people don't know about this, but

1564
01:24:30.359 --> 01:24:34.680
there was a huge dam that was built and it

1565
01:24:34.880 --> 01:24:37.479
was supposed to be this huge revolutionary thing, and they

1566
01:24:37.520 --> 01:24:39.600
built they built towns around it and everything that was

1567
01:24:39.600 --> 01:24:42.640
going to revolutionize the dry valley of Santa Creta and

1568
01:24:42.680 --> 01:24:46.399
everything and be this huge thing, like even bigger than

1569
01:24:46.399 --> 01:24:52.439
Orange County and it failed, and this mountain of water

1570
01:24:53.520 --> 01:24:57.159
killed countless people, washed towns away, and it reached the

1571
01:24:57.159 --> 01:25:00.279
Pacific Ocean. It was so big and powerful, and it

1572
01:25:00.359 --> 01:25:05.199
is considered the biggest natural disaster on the West Coast

1573
01:25:05.239 --> 01:25:09.439
that's ever happened, and it's been basically forgotten. When me

1574
01:25:09.479 --> 01:25:11.439
and when me and Lisa used to talk because we

1575
01:25:11.840 --> 01:25:14.920
love there's this joke that there's no California history, but

1576
01:25:14.960 --> 01:25:17.760
there's tons if you look, if you go outside of

1577
01:25:17.840 --> 01:25:20.000
just looking at Hollywood Boulevard and you look at the

1578
01:25:20.319 --> 01:25:22.680
you know how California was settled. There's so many amazing

1579
01:25:22.720 --> 01:25:26.239
stories like that, and that it's just rich, some rich stuff.

1580
01:25:27.159 --> 01:25:30.520
And we talked about this and we were reading about

1581
01:25:30.560 --> 01:25:33.439
and going, wow, this is an unbelievable story. And we

1582
01:25:33.520 --> 01:25:36.279
had both gone up and we visited the site and

1583
01:25:36.359 --> 01:25:39.199
it's really creepy. And the other thing that we always

1584
01:25:39.199 --> 01:25:44.119
talked about is this reported lizard people that lived in

1585
01:25:44.159 --> 01:25:48.199
tunnels and still apparently do they say, in underground in

1586
01:25:48.239 --> 01:25:53.479
California and basically in the Los Angeles Santa Karita area,

1587
01:25:53.800 --> 01:25:56.319
do they exist. They've never been there's been no proof,

1588
01:25:56.760 --> 01:25:59.359
but in our in our novella, after the flood a

1589
01:25:59.399 --> 01:26:04.159
young scientists. She goes out to survey the damage and

1590
01:26:04.239 --> 01:26:08.800
try to find her mom, who may or may not

1591
01:26:08.960 --> 01:26:12.159
have been washed away in this, but finds a severed

1592
01:26:12.239 --> 01:26:16.680
hand that isn't quite human and fits all of the

1593
01:26:17.640 --> 01:26:20.720
all of the facets of being from a giant lizard

1594
01:26:21.000 --> 01:26:23.680
like thing, and she believes it's a hand of the

1595
01:26:23.680 --> 01:26:26.479
lizard people. Yeah, and the valley it's it's in the

1596
01:26:26.520 --> 01:26:31.279
fictional town of place Serena. So that's what that. It

1597
01:26:31.319 --> 01:26:33.840
was supposed to be a novel. Some of the reviews

1598
01:26:33.840 --> 01:26:35.920
that said, hey, this is too short, it's you know

1599
01:26:36.600 --> 01:26:39.039
what happened. We had thought it would be a novel

1600
01:26:39.079 --> 01:26:41.199
at one point, but main Lisa just got way too busy,

1601
01:26:41.199 --> 01:26:45.640
and you know, and then we just we forgot. We

1602
01:26:45.680 --> 01:26:48.840
had sent it to Cemetery Dance and they said, hey,

1603
01:26:48.880 --> 01:26:53.720
we're going to put this out. Oh right, so Lynn

1604
01:26:53.720 --> 01:26:56.119
Hansen did, I mean they're really slow. I have a

1605
01:26:56.159 --> 01:26:58.000
story coming out with them this year, and that they've

1606
01:26:58.039 --> 01:27:01.840
had it for nine years. I'm not exaggerating. So they're

1607
01:27:01.840 --> 01:27:03.800
a little on the slow side getting stuff out. But

1608
01:27:05.159 --> 01:27:06.840
and we never got back to we got We did

1609
01:27:06.880 --> 01:27:10.720
other things since then, but anyway, that's place the rita nice.

1610
01:27:11.479 --> 01:27:14.840
You co wrote that with Lisa Morton. What was the

1611
01:27:14.880 --> 01:27:18.000
process of that, Like, how did you guys separate the

1612
01:27:18.079 --> 01:27:19.279
duties so to speak?

1613
01:27:21.720 --> 01:27:25.159
We we came up with it with an outline memory service.

1614
01:27:25.199 --> 01:27:28.199
We came up with a rough outline. I sent her

1615
01:27:28.359 --> 01:27:30.960
a first couple of pages, and then she took it

1616
01:27:31.000 --> 01:27:33.800
from there and she embellished it and came up with

1617
01:27:33.960 --> 01:27:38.960
even more detail because she's a she's an unbelievable librarian

1618
01:27:39.119 --> 01:27:42.239
of California history and people, and she put in all

1619
01:27:42.239 --> 01:27:44.279
these like she knew all the people that built the

1620
01:27:44.359 --> 01:27:48.000
damn and she knew all these different real life people

1621
01:27:48.000 --> 01:27:50.560
to populate that with for that time period, and and

1622
01:27:51.039 --> 01:27:53.279
you know, and of course she's a terrific writer. So

1623
01:27:53.319 --> 01:27:55.600
she took some of my very hand fisted pros and

1624
01:27:55.640 --> 01:27:59.640
cleaned it up and you know, she's it was. It

1625
01:27:59.680 --> 01:28:01.159
was great. And then and then she sent it to

1626
01:28:01.159 --> 01:28:02.359
me and I say, oh, you know, it'd be cool.

1627
01:28:02.399 --> 01:28:04.680
What about this? What if we try this? And we

1628
01:28:05.119 --> 01:28:07.560
went back and forth for a while, and then we

1629
01:28:07.600 --> 01:28:09.760
had a natural breaking point at which point I don't

1630
01:28:09.760 --> 01:28:14.560
remember what happened, but anyway, then and then, yeah, it

1631
01:28:14.600 --> 01:28:17.640
was it was a pretty seamless collaboration. There weren't too many.

1632
01:28:17.960 --> 01:28:20.920
I don't think we had any any rough patches or

1633
01:28:20.920 --> 01:28:23.479
speed bumps. I mean, we just fed off each other

1634
01:28:23.560 --> 01:28:28.760
very quickly and we Yeah.

1635
01:28:27.720 --> 01:28:30.800
Yeah, you, You and Lisa have been friends for some

1636
01:28:30.960 --> 01:28:35.439
time now. I remember reading the forward that she wrote

1637
01:28:35.479 --> 01:28:38.840
for your collection All That Withers. She mentioned how you're

1638
01:28:38.880 --> 01:28:43.680
writing from a writer's group that you tour mutual members

1639
01:28:43.720 --> 01:28:48.720
of kind of grabbed her attention, and uh, and she

1640
01:28:48.800 --> 01:28:50.680
became friends with you from from there.

1641
01:28:50.720 --> 01:28:54.399
Basically, Yeah, we've we've known each other longer than I

1642
01:28:54.439 --> 01:29:00.199
care to admit at this point, I know, I don't

1643
01:29:00.199 --> 01:29:02.880
want to. I don't want to reveal of a long

1644
01:29:02.920 --> 01:29:05.000
time more than more than a decade. I'll just put

1645
01:29:05.039 --> 01:29:08.399
it at that. And we we've we've been We were

1646
01:29:08.439 --> 01:29:10.840
always very close. There were very She's like the sister

1647
01:29:10.920 --> 01:29:14.720
I never and I always wished I had, you know,

1648
01:29:14.760 --> 01:29:16.640
were we're like two piece in a pod, you know,

1649
01:29:16.680 --> 01:29:20.359
with with all the horror stuff. And yeah, she she

1650
01:29:20.840 --> 01:29:23.000
really was like my unofficial mentor for a long time.

1651
01:29:23.680 --> 01:29:25.920
I met her. I walked into the Iliad, which was

1652
01:29:26.079 --> 01:29:29.640
at the time a video store, and she was working there,

1653
01:29:30.439 --> 01:29:32.239
and I don't Remember we just started talking I think

1654
01:29:32.239 --> 01:29:34.239
about David Lynch or something. I had brought a book

1655
01:29:34.239 --> 01:29:37.199
about David Lynch up, and then she said something like, oh,

1656
01:29:37.319 --> 01:29:39.399
you should, you know, come to this, you know group

1657
01:29:39.439 --> 01:29:42.159
we have. I said, I wanted to get into more

1658
01:29:42.199 --> 01:29:45.319
into writing and explore that in LA and she said, oh, yeah,

1659
01:29:45.319 --> 01:29:47.000
I come to this group and you know, and from

1660
01:29:47.039 --> 01:29:49.439
there it just it just snowballed. We became good friends

1661
01:29:49.479 --> 01:29:52.479
very quickly. Just we have so much in common so

1662
01:29:52.720 --> 01:29:53.439
and still do.

1663
01:29:54.760 --> 01:29:54.880
So.

1664
01:29:55.039 --> 01:30:00.520
She's a great person, you know, A terrific writer, Absolutely terrific, right, Yeah, huge.

1665
01:30:00.319 --> 01:30:04.640
Fan of her short fiction. I've read like her Cemetery

1666
01:30:04.720 --> 01:30:09.199
Dance collection, and I've read likes a lot from like anthologies.

1667
01:30:09.239 --> 01:30:11.640
I always get a little excited when there's a Lisa

1668
01:30:11.680 --> 01:30:14.279
Morton's story in something I'm about to read.

1669
01:30:15.199 --> 01:30:17.319
Yeah, I mean yeah, I could go on for an

1670
01:30:17.319 --> 01:30:20.399
hour about her work. And I think anybody watching this

1671
01:30:20.520 --> 01:30:21.840
definitely check her out. Please.

1672
01:30:22.479 --> 01:30:24.479
I need to. I need to. Yeah, I need to

1673
01:30:24.479 --> 01:30:26.720
start reading her novels because I haven't read any of

1674
01:30:26.760 --> 01:30:27.640
her novels yet.

1675
01:30:27.880 --> 01:30:31.000
The novels are there are excellent. I loved, I loved

1676
01:30:31.039 --> 01:30:32.720
the novels that she's done too, and I know she's

1677
01:30:32.720 --> 01:30:35.520
shopping another one right now. And you know, fingers and

1678
01:30:35.520 --> 01:30:38.119
tentacles crossed, we get another novel from her again soon.

1679
01:30:39.279 --> 01:30:43.039
So, speaking of novels, some of your books have gone

1680
01:30:43.039 --> 01:30:45.840
out of print, and one of the reasons for this

1681
01:30:46.000 --> 01:30:48.840
because some of the publishers that publish them no longer exist.

1682
01:30:49.239 --> 01:30:52.199
So I was wondering, is there any plans to get

1683
01:30:52.239 --> 01:30:54.800
those books out into the world again, because I haven't

1684
01:30:54.800 --> 01:30:57.039
read them all, but I want to. I have Ghost Heart,

1685
01:30:57.119 --> 01:30:58.159
but that's it.

1686
01:30:58.880 --> 01:31:01.680
Yeah, you know. I I found out I have all

1687
01:31:01.680 --> 01:31:05.479
the rights to my backlist, but what I found out

1688
01:31:05.520 --> 01:31:09.239
recently is that some of the files I have aren't

1689
01:31:09.279 --> 01:31:15.520
the final copy edited files, and it's going to be

1690
01:31:15.560 --> 01:31:17.560
such a lot, such a mountain of work for me

1691
01:31:17.640 --> 01:31:19.479
to go through them and clean them up. For sure,

1692
01:31:19.760 --> 01:31:23.479
I'm like, oh, you know, to read. I Yeah, So

1693
01:31:23.600 --> 01:31:25.439
I would love to get them back out again, but

1694
01:31:25.880 --> 01:31:29.279
I'm dreading having to go back. I get that I

1695
01:31:29.720 --> 01:31:31.159
get files down again.

1696
01:31:30.920 --> 01:31:36.520
And yeah, that sounds painful. Yeah, and I know, yeah,

1697
01:31:36.840 --> 01:31:39.439
I have a question in regards to editing, because right

1698
01:31:39.439 --> 01:31:42.359
now I'm editing a book that was released that I

1699
01:31:42.399 --> 01:31:49.600
released in twenty fifteen, with a very small publisher. They

1700
01:31:49.640 --> 01:31:52.079
no longer exist, and that's why this book no longer exists.

1701
01:31:52.079 --> 01:31:56.760
So something similar, but I'm in. I hired somebody to

1702
01:31:57.000 --> 01:32:01.640
give it a re edit and they really extensive into

1703
01:32:01.640 --> 01:32:06.119
the edits, and so it's taken me months and I'm

1704
01:32:06.159 --> 01:32:08.840
finally getting near the end. But you know, while you're doing, like,

1705
01:32:08.920 --> 01:32:10.680
I only have a certain amount of time that I

1706
01:32:10.680 --> 01:32:13.960
can do this, right, So, have you ever been stuck

1707
01:32:14.079 --> 01:32:17.800
in the middle of like an editing projects that seems

1708
01:32:17.840 --> 01:32:20.239
to be taking forever, but you really want to write

1709
01:32:20.439 --> 01:32:23.800
another something else? What do you do in that situation?

1710
01:32:23.920 --> 01:32:25.640
If you've ever ever been there.

1711
01:32:26.359 --> 01:32:31.199
I have. I'm there very often. And what I do

1712
01:32:31.279 --> 01:32:35.560
is I compartmentalize my time. So I'll do the way

1713
01:32:35.600 --> 01:32:38.000
my brain works. My creativity is best when I first

1714
01:32:38.039 --> 01:32:38.560
get up.

1715
01:32:39.399 --> 01:32:40.119
So yeah, me too.

1716
01:32:40.239 --> 01:32:44.199
I'll take an up. I'll take that first hour and say, Okay,

1717
01:32:44.199 --> 01:32:46.319
I'm going to work on my new book or short story,

1718
01:32:46.359 --> 01:32:48.920
whatever it is for that hour, and then I'm going

1719
01:32:48.960 --> 01:32:51.359
to shift gears and go to the work work I

1720
01:32:51.399 --> 01:32:53.520
have to get done. That way, I feel like at

1721
01:32:53.520 --> 01:32:55.640
the end of the day, I at least got something

1722
01:32:55.720 --> 01:32:57.640
done on the new one, and then I feel better

1723
01:32:57.680 --> 01:33:01.560
than it's just not slogging through edits, you know, on

1724
01:33:01.600 --> 01:33:05.039
something or or day job work. So that's that's what

1725
01:33:05.119 --> 01:33:08.840
I do. I would love to write creatively all day,

1726
01:33:09.039 --> 01:33:11.880
you know, and just do that. But you know, life.

1727
01:33:12.000 --> 01:33:18.199
So yeah, which book of yours would you like to

1728
01:33:18.239 --> 01:33:21.600
see adapted into a film or a series? And which

1729
01:33:21.680 --> 01:33:25.960
director would you choose? Have given the choice, Wow.

1730
01:33:25.920 --> 01:33:31.520
That's a cool question. I would love to see Requiem, Yeah,

1731
01:33:31.760 --> 01:33:35.279
come out, come out. I think it's probably the most

1732
01:33:35.279 --> 01:33:41.399
cinematic thing that I've written. As far as directors, I

1733
01:33:41.560 --> 01:33:45.159
you know, I of course there's the big names, but

1734
01:33:45.279 --> 01:33:47.760
I would I would love to find a director that's

1735
01:33:48.600 --> 01:33:50.840
you know, up and coming, that hasn't gotten a break yet,

1736
01:33:50.880 --> 01:33:54.119
that could really you know, get into this, you know,

1737
01:33:54.159 --> 01:33:56.319
I you know, As far as big names, I think

1738
01:33:56.319 --> 01:33:59.279
somebody like Ron Howard would be unbelievable, you know, for

1739
01:33:59.600 --> 01:34:04.119
somebody who really is good with getting emotions, you know,

1740
01:34:04.239 --> 01:34:08.479
out of people, you know, and really getting that into film.

1741
01:34:08.560 --> 01:34:10.560
Somebody of that caliber would be amazing. But I know,

1742
01:34:10.600 --> 01:34:13.760
there's just so many amazing, brilliant directors that I would

1743
01:34:13.760 --> 01:34:17.680
love that somebody somebody knew to get a start. I know,

1744
01:34:17.800 --> 01:34:20.479
we've had the we we've had a couple of bites,

1745
01:34:22.000 --> 01:34:28.760
nothing nothing official, no contracts, no money importantly, but so hopefully,

1746
01:34:28.920 --> 01:34:29.279
you know.

1747
01:34:29.560 --> 01:34:32.279
Hopefully one day that would be great. Yeah. I would

1748
01:34:32.319 --> 01:34:34.520
love to see it myself, honestly.

1749
01:34:34.159 --> 01:34:35.199
Yeah, it'd be amazing.

1750
01:34:35.439 --> 01:34:40.039
So final question, and I ask this of all my

1751
01:34:40.479 --> 01:34:43.159
first time guests and sometimes if they come back on

1752
01:34:43.199 --> 01:34:46.800
and I'll ask the same things. Opinions always change, But

1753
01:34:46.920 --> 01:34:50.479
which authors do you feel are neglected and you wish

1754
01:34:50.680 --> 01:34:54.600
more people were discussing on social media? Cool?

1755
01:34:54.720 --> 01:34:56.840
Well, two parts I'll make I'll make this as quick

1756
01:34:56.880 --> 01:34:59.560
as possible. First of all, I want to say that

1757
01:34:59.680 --> 01:35:02.600
I think that there's an entire generation of writers of

1758
01:35:02.640 --> 01:35:08.239
horror writers who haven't gotten the benefits that we're seeing

1759
01:35:08.279 --> 01:35:11.560
now of the newest generation of horror writers. For a

1760
01:35:11.640 --> 01:35:14.760
long time, horror was a dirty word, and a lot

1761
01:35:14.800 --> 01:35:19.079
of us, I'm including myself in this, were regulated to

1762
01:35:19.720 --> 01:35:22.079
smaller presses and not being in Barnes and Noble and

1763
01:35:22.119 --> 01:35:24.560
not getting book tours and not even getting signings outside

1764
01:35:24.560 --> 01:35:26.800
of a couple of tiny places. And I would love

1765
01:35:26.840 --> 01:35:30.199
to see this generation, my generation of writers seeing some

1766
01:35:30.279 --> 01:35:32.920
of this success as well. I think we set we

1767
01:35:33.000 --> 01:35:37.359
worked really hard on opening the doors and keeping that

1768
01:35:37.399 --> 01:35:40.560
flame during some of the worst times for horror that

1769
01:35:40.600 --> 01:35:42.840
we've seen and now we're seeing. You know, Barnes and

1770
01:35:42.840 --> 01:35:45.840
Noble has a horror section and it's it's mainstream. Again,

1771
01:35:45.920 --> 01:35:49.279
Let's be honest. Horror is mainstream. There's no question, there's

1772
01:35:49.319 --> 01:35:52.079
no it might be it is to the back point

1773
01:35:52.119 --> 01:35:55.680
where it's getting oversaturated. Again, that's another thing, so I

1774
01:35:55.720 --> 01:35:58.680
would say that first. But Part two here's for I

1775
01:35:58.920 --> 01:36:01.119
made a list of a couple for people that I

1776
01:36:01.199 --> 01:36:03.520
think I always look forward to and I love that

1777
01:36:03.600 --> 01:36:08.520
I think can definitely use a lift. Lisa Martin again,

1778
01:36:08.640 --> 01:36:13.800
I think is really underrated. I think she's amazing her fiction, especially,

1779
01:36:13.880 --> 01:36:16.119
she does really good with nonfiction, but I think she's

1780
01:36:16.159 --> 01:36:19.479
really underrated as a as a fiction writer, especially novels.

1781
01:36:20.039 --> 01:36:24.199
Part two. Jenny Keefer terrific writer. She has a new

1782
01:36:24.199 --> 01:36:27.319
book coming out. I think she's excellent and she has

1783
01:36:27.359 --> 01:36:30.600
a very interesting point of view and style.

1784
01:36:31.319 --> 01:36:35.119
I read her first book. Yeah, yeah, it's very good.

1785
01:36:35.199 --> 01:36:40.960
Yeah, I agree, and I think there's she's excellent. Catherine

1786
01:36:41.000 --> 01:36:44.279
McGee is one of my favorite writers who has not

1787
01:36:44.479 --> 01:36:49.039
seen big success yet. She is unflinching. Her stories are

1788
01:36:49.079 --> 01:36:54.720
so interesting and creative and wild and literate. I think

1789
01:36:54.800 --> 01:36:58.199
that when she gets her break, I think she's gonna

1790
01:36:58.720 --> 01:36:59.960
blow a lot of people's mind.

1791
01:37:00.760 --> 01:37:02.319
Can you spell her last name for me?

1792
01:37:02.920 --> 01:37:04.119
M C G E E.

1793
01:37:04.840 --> 01:37:06.600
Okay, I spelled it right, all right.

1794
01:37:07.680 --> 01:37:12.039
Yeah. And and she's excellent, She's really excellent. And the

1795
01:37:12.159 --> 01:37:15.239
last name that came to mind was Polly Shaddle, who

1796
01:37:15.279 --> 01:37:20.800
I think is unbelievable. Rights kind of like Flannery O'Connor

1797
01:37:20.920 --> 01:37:23.439
meets Quentin Tarantino meets David Lynch.

1798
01:37:24.399 --> 01:37:25.680
Sweet, beautiful writing.

1799
01:37:25.800 --> 01:37:31.239
Beautiful writing. Doesn't put out a lot of books, but

1800
01:37:31.279 --> 01:37:33.720
what she's put out, I think everything is has been

1801
01:37:33.800 --> 01:37:38.520
pitch perfect, immersive, the best kind of writing that I love.

1802
01:37:39.720 --> 01:37:43.199
Very huge, not not always straight horror. Sometimes it's like thriller.

1803
01:37:43.279 --> 01:37:47.000
Sometimes it's more human interest, but always compelling.

1804
01:37:47.359 --> 01:37:51.600
So and those her name is Polly Shadow Shadow.

1805
01:37:52.520 --> 01:37:54.159
I should I'll send you. I'll send it. I think

1806
01:37:54.199 --> 01:37:58.920
it's s S C H A T T E L

1807
01:37:59.000 --> 01:38:00.840
or al. I'll have to look that up. I can

1808
01:38:00.840 --> 01:38:01.479
send that to you.

1809
01:38:01.479 --> 01:38:05.119
But okay, I can probably find it. But yeah, yeah, yeah,

1810
01:38:05.159 --> 01:38:07.039
if you could send it to me. A messenger that'd

1811
01:38:07.079 --> 01:38:08.960
be great because I like to put the games on here.

1812
01:38:09.479 --> 01:38:13.800
One of the goals of this podcast is to hopefully

1813
01:38:13.840 --> 01:38:17.319
bring a spotlight onto authors I sometimes feel don't like

1814
01:38:17.359 --> 01:38:19.560
I like talking to the like I talked to Jonathan

1815
01:38:19.640 --> 01:38:23.079
Jans and his episodes coming out soon, and he's an awesome,

1816
01:38:23.319 --> 01:38:27.600
awesome guy. To talk to him, he doesn't need my help,

1817
01:38:27.920 --> 01:38:30.159
so it was it was like, good for him to

1818
01:38:30.199 --> 01:38:32.479
come on and chat with me. But I like to

1819
01:38:32.479 --> 01:38:36.239
shine the light on smaller authors because it seems like

1820
01:38:36.880 --> 01:38:40.800
people are you know, I'm glad that horror is is

1821
01:38:41.159 --> 01:38:45.159
is doing well these days, but it seems like it's

1822
01:38:45.199 --> 01:38:47.439
it's always the same authors. There's nothing wrong with that,

1823
01:38:47.479 --> 01:38:50.560
they're holding the torch and they're they're bringing it. But

1824
01:38:50.600 --> 01:38:53.319
there's other authors that I want to bring the light

1825
01:38:53.359 --> 01:38:56.720
on as well, And so that's why I asked that question.

1826
01:38:56.800 --> 01:38:59.399
And I check out each author and then I put

1827
01:38:59.399 --> 01:39:02.239
them in the sometimes like, if I have time, I'll

1828
01:39:02.399 --> 01:39:05.199
like your book Requiem. I had a space open. I

1829
01:39:05.239 --> 01:39:06.720
was like, you know what, I've been wanting to read

1830
01:39:06.720 --> 01:39:08.560
this for a while. So I went and got it,

1831
01:39:08.920 --> 01:39:12.800
downloaded it onto my Cobo, and I read it and

1832
01:39:12.800 --> 01:39:17.960
and it turned into this. So that was awesome. All right,

1833
01:39:18.079 --> 01:39:21.840
that's amazing to hear. Thank you not a problem. So

1834
01:39:21.920 --> 01:39:23.840
I want to thank you so much for coming on

1835
01:39:23.880 --> 01:39:26.960
the show and talking with me. John. I I had

1836
01:39:26.960 --> 01:39:29.399
a feeling i'd have an incredible time, and that feeling

1837
01:39:29.479 --> 01:39:32.600
was not wrong. It was It was a blast. So

1838
01:39:32.680 --> 01:39:36.079
can are you able to tell us about any future

1839
01:39:36.119 --> 01:39:38.279
releases and what we can expect in the future.

1840
01:39:39.279 --> 01:39:41.960
Well, the one I'm hoping comes out next is called

1841
01:39:41.960 --> 01:39:46.159
Ghost in the Machine and that's that's one that we're

1842
01:39:46.399 --> 01:39:49.479
really hoping to get out there and submit very soon.

1843
01:39:51.520 --> 01:39:56.600
And that's a it's not space horror, it's it's more

1844
01:39:56.640 --> 01:39:58.880
of a it's more of a body horror, folk horror

1845
01:39:59.000 --> 01:39:59.439
kind of book.

1846
01:39:59.520 --> 01:39:59.840
Nice.

1847
01:40:00.960 --> 01:40:03.520
But I'm hoping that's the next one that that that

1848
01:40:03.600 --> 01:40:06.680
sees release. But you know, we'll see these things. They

1849
01:40:06.680 --> 01:40:09.479
take time, you have to pitch them and you know, yeah,

1850
01:40:09.680 --> 01:40:12.960
you know, you know that's a big thing. And the

1851
01:40:13.000 --> 01:40:15.920
next the next uh, like I mentioned Cemetery Dance, I

1852
01:40:16.119 --> 01:40:18.119
apparently it is going to be putting out my story

1853
01:40:18.119 --> 01:40:19.239
in their next issue of mine.

1854
01:40:20.720 --> 01:40:21.760
Okay, So so.

1855
01:40:21.840 --> 01:40:24.000
Hopefully that comes out. That's gonna That's been a big

1856
01:40:24.000 --> 01:40:26.920
thing that had been wanting for years to see happen

1857
01:40:26.960 --> 01:40:29.399
to have a story in Cemetery Dance. So I'm hoping

1858
01:40:30.840 --> 01:40:32.520
hoping it lines up.

1859
01:40:34.039 --> 01:40:39.680
That would be great, right, we shall see, yeah, but awesome.

1860
01:40:40.039 --> 01:40:40.439
Thank you?

1861
01:40:40.560 --> 01:40:44.479
All right, So, whenever you have another release coming out,

1862
01:40:44.880 --> 01:40:47.239
would you be willing to come on again help write

1863
01:40:47.239 --> 01:40:47.640
your book?

1864
01:40:48.000 --> 01:40:51.600
Of course, this has been an amazing conversation. I appreciate it.

1865
01:40:52.199 --> 01:40:55.039
Awesome. Where can people find you online should they want

1866
01:40:55.079 --> 01:40:57.560
to keep updated with updates?

1867
01:40:58.239 --> 01:41:01.239
My website's just my name John Paul Sano dot com.

1868
01:41:01.359 --> 01:41:02.920
If you go to any of the social big big

1869
01:41:02.960 --> 01:41:07.000
social media's, I'm there by with my name like twittern

1870
01:41:07.000 --> 01:41:11.920
dot John Palasano, Facebook slash John Palasano, TikTok slash John Palasano.

1871
01:41:13.039 --> 01:41:15.840
So f im the only one of me AI hasn't

1872
01:41:15.840 --> 01:41:21.520
called me yet, so it should be easily found, right.

1873
01:41:22.119 --> 01:41:24.119
All right, Well, thank you so much for joining me

1874
01:41:24.239 --> 01:41:26.239
and we will we'll talk to you again soon.

1875
01:41:26.880 --> 01:41:55.439
You're you're very welcome and thank you too. H M