Sept. 15, 2025

061 - Jonathan Janz Talks Lenora and VEIL

061 - Jonathan Janz Talks Lenora and VEIL
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Horror author Jonathan Janz joins Weird Reads to talk about protecting the horror genre, the influence of Stephen King, writing in another writer’s universe, animals in horror, anti-intellectualism, and the tricky balance between loving your own work while staying critical. Jonathan is one of my favourite authors, so it was a pure pleasure and an honour to be able to chat with him. My thanks to him for coming on despite being sick!

Purchase VEIL: https://www.amazon.com/Veil-Jonathan-Janz/dp/B0DXM73CZL
It's The End Of The World As We Know It: https://www.amazon.com/End-World-As-We-Know/dp/1668057557

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You're listening to the Weird Reader podcast, an extension of

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Jason's Weird Reads found on YouTube. Welcome, Hello, and welcome

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to Weird Reads episode sixty one. I am your host,

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Jason White, and today I'm going to be talking with

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one of my favorite authors, Jonathan Jane's now Jonathan. He

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is releasing his new book, Veil, and I absolutely loved

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this book. I was lucky enough for net Galley to

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approve an early reading of this book, to get a

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Galley and read it before the release date. Now this

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is funny because I never I never get approved by

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net Galli, and I asked him at the end of

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this interview. I was like, did you have a hand

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in this at all? And Jonathan was like, no, no,

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I don't do anything with net Gelly. So I don't

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know what forces I I don't know what happened there.

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Like I said, I never get approved, but I got

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approved for this one. So thanks to the net Galley

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gods and everyone who approved me. But this is my

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discussion with Jonathan Jans. As I said, he's one of

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my favorite authors. I've read a good nine or ten

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of his books, and in this conversation we talk about

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his new book Veil, which is absolutely brilliant in my opinion,

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and we also talk about Leonora, his short story in

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the new anthology The End of the World Is We

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Know It, which was released just a couple of weeks

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ago now, and that story is also it's very heartbreaking, honestly,

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and it tugs at the strings if you understand what

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I mean. I loved that story and I loved Vail,

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and I was very excited to talk to Jonathan, and

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I realized I'm just babbling at this point, So how

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about we get into the show. Stick around till the

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end of the episode. We're I'll be sharing some exciting

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news and until then, here's my conversation with Jonathan Jans. Hello,

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and welcome to Weird Reads. I am your host, Jason White,

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and today I have a guest. This is my second

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time talking to him, but we talked to each other

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briefly earlier this summer. But we'll get to that. But

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I have Jonathan Jans with me. Jonathan is one of

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my favorite writers I've read, and yet I've only read

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about half of his books. It really kind of sucks

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doing this show because I find myself reading for the

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show all the time, so I can't always just go off.

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And I wanted to read a couple more Jonathan Jan's

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stories before getting onto this, just to you know, get

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a little farther, but that didn't happen because I have,

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like I overbooked myself. I have a lot of interviews

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coming up. But I want to thank you Jonathan, and

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I don't think you need an introduction, but can you

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give yourself a short introduction.

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Yes, I'm Jonathan Jan's. I'm yeah, my buddy here did

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a great job. You know, I don't really have a lot.

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I have COVID, so if I'm a little bit off

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or fuzzy or whatever, that's why. But I'm definitely upright,

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which is good. And yeah, I'm just happy to be

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here out of blast last time we talked, and I'm

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sure this will be a great time to my friend.

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Awesome, And yes, you know you're sick. You have COVID,

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so I want to thank you profusely for coming on. Anyway,

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you could have canceled and that would have been totally fine,

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but I appreciate you not canceling. It's it's like like

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I said, though, would have been absolutely fine, but I

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was wondering. You know, you've had a pretty busy summer.

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Is it as exciting for you as it appears on

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your on your on your social media.

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It is. It's been it's been a really it's been

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a really fun time. It's been a wild time. Yeah.

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But you know how it is like life is just

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so busy that you kind of, I don't know, you're

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just kind of in the whirlwind and you don't really

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stop to contemplate it much. Yeah, well I have really, Yeah,

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it's been a very positive time last last last month

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or so, it has been pretty special.

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Yeah. I've been enjoying watching all the pictures come through

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of like the uh this book here the End of

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the World as we know it. I have like all

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the copies for this. I have the physical red cover,

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I have the e book, and I have the audio book.

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That is amazing, man, that's amazing, dude. Yeah. Yeah, I

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bought the audio book recently and I listened to my

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story on there. I haven't listened to the rest I

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planned to, but I have to listen to the others.

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I'm sure they're awesome.

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Yeah. I want to go back just a little bit too.

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What I remember when we were talking on the Short

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Bites podcast the Stephen King Podcast, I also do I

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mentioned that I've been reading you since about twenty seventeen,

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but I didn't mention which book it was. I don't

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think I did anyway, But the first book of yours

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I read was a novella called Witching Our Theater. Oh wow,

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that little book. It was like instant love. Once I

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read that, I was like, oh my god, I got

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to read more of this author, you know what I mean.

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One thing I loved about it, though, and I've noticed

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since then, is that you tend to you show, you

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show your love of the horror genre, like profusely, you

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wear it on your sleeve. And I was wondering, why

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is it important? Not everybody does that, so why is

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it important and for you to do that?

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Yeah, I just I'm I'm super I'm super protective of

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horror and I am very very proud of it. I

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just think that it's such a special genre and it's

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got so many special readers and writers that I want

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to celebrate it. And I because I think part of

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it is probably the fact that there, you know, there's

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some negativity outside of the genre towards the genre. You know,

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like you'll and it's fine. People's taste is their taste.

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It's okay. But but but some reasons you hear for

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not liking horror I think, are at least to me,

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more logical than others. Like I'll talk to people who like,

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they'll say, don't I don't watch horror because it scares

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me and disturbs me, and I'm like, oh, totally cool,

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I get that. But then you'll have people who are

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just reductive and dismissive about it, like it's just all

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blood and guts and it's just you're depraved if you

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read that and all that stuff, and that's the kind

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of criticism that really makes me bristle. So maybe partially

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because of those kinds of criticisms, I'm very I'm very

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quick to celebrate it, and like you said, I do

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wear it on my sleeve.

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Yeah. I could talk about that subject all day because

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I've been writing for a while too, and I used

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to have friends read my stories and so I was labeled,

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you know, a freak for the things I'd write about,

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and they would like talk and laugh about the things

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that happened in my stories. Did you find yourself ever

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coming to grips with something like that.

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Oh yeah, yeah, there was a woman I worked with

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one of the schools at which I worked. I'm not

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gonna say which one it is or who the woman was,

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but she read a story of mine called The Clearing

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of Travis Koebel, which is a short, and she never

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looked at me the same again. Every time I'd walk in,

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she looked fearful, And I'm like, you know, it's cool, man,

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I promise I'm the same guy that you thought I

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was before you read that story. But yeah, for some

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people it's difficult to like to realize that this is

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just imagination. That doesn't mean the writer is actually like

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that in real life.

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But absolutely it's It's interesting because I have, like in

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my questions here something about separating the writer from the

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horrible things that we tend to write. But we'll get

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to that in a little bit, sure, because it kind

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of involves what you write about in I believe It's

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a Veil, which is a crazy good story. But like

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I said, we'll get to that. But first, as a

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Stephen King fan, I think you're bigger Stephen King fan

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than me, So I'm curious. Have you have you read

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Stephen King's latest yet Never Flinch.

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That's one of the few I haven't, So it's so

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much easier to me for me to count up the

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ones I haven't read. I haven't read Never Flinch. Hearts

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in Atlantis. Well, yeah, I know, and everybody says it's awesome.

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It is, Yeah, it is. It's one of my favorites. Absolutely,

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I've heard I need to read. I haven't read Lyce's story.

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Maybe one other, but like almost all of them, i've read,

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but those are just a few I haven't.

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That's crazy. I think a Lyce's story there, that's one

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that you would want to read if you want to, like,

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I guess, get inside of Stephen King's head in regards

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to marriage and his marriage, because I think that one's

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very personal to him, and so it's fascinating read for that.

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But it's it's kinda it's one of his weirdest I

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think for him.

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And he's really fond of it. I forget which which

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interview it was, but you know, he'll give his top

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five Stephen King stories, and at one point he named

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that as one of his five favorites. Maybe it was new,

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I don't know, but I think he's very fond of it.

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Yeah he is. He says, it's this most personal story,

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and so that's that's interesting too. But I like how

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it goes into the like akhilisms of like a marriage, right,

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and just like you know, you can go into friendships

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too on how we have our own secret language with

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people that we know really well. Yeah, and so that's

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why it gets a little confusing because there's so much

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of that in there.

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All right, yeah, yeah, I'm well, I've got it over

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there on my on my nightstand. I'm reading Billy Summers

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right now. I'm about eighty percent of the way through

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that one and loving it. I think Billy's so awesome.

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But why is the stories right over there waiting on me?

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I need to read Billy Summers. I want to. I

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want to read Billy Summers so much. Wicked they got

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to fit it in somewhere. Yeah, yeah, and so good.

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Then Stephen King was the first first person you read,

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right like that you enjoyed. This is what got you

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hooked on reading, And it was Tommy Knockers, right, that's right.

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Yeah, he he was the first person and the only

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person I was monogamous with him until I went to college.

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I didn't read a school other author until I went

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to college, and I don't know how many I'd read,

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like twenty twenty five of his, and then I went

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to Purdue, and then when I started to branch out,

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I did it with Dance McCobb. He had a list

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of books. So it's still Stephen King recommended. I didn't

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stray that far, but I started to read like Hell

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House by Richard Matheson, Ghost Story by Peter Straub, Honey

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at Hillhouse by Shoy Jackson, Burnt Offerings by Robert Morasco,

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and then like a couple of Bradbears, Something Wicked This

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Way Comes by Bradbear. I think those are the first

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non Stephen King books I read. That was my freshman

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year in college. But boy, you know those titles, those

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are he didn't leave me astray. Those are amazing books.

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That's that's quite the list. Yes, Dance macawber is a

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really awesome book. Though. Oh I think it taught a

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lot of people you know, where to go right.

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Yeah, exactly exactly.

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So, since I would say it's fair to say that

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Stephen King is your favorite author, yeah, what book of

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yours would you say is your most influenced by Stephen King.

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That's a great question. Well, I would say this isn't

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a book. I'd say Leonora, the short story in the

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Stephen King the Stand Anthology is very much I think

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there's a lot of his DNA there. I think there's

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a lot of his DNA and all my work, honestly,

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probably the two other than Leonora that pop into my

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mind are I think Children of the Dark has a

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lot of like the Body in it, The Loser's Club,

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I think there's a lot of that DNA, and in

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the Dark series, and then I think, I mean even

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though yeah, I feel like Veil, I just feel like,

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I don't know, it's it's weird because it's not a

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Stephen King kind of book. But at the same time,

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I can detect his influence in there. And that's in

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my mind a lot lately because that's coming out here

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in about seventeen days. So those are just a couple

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that I think have a lot of him in it.

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I'm glad you mentioned that, especially Lenora, because I think

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I was on Threads I said that Leonora, it had

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a lot of Stephen King's voice in it, but you

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managed to keep your own voice completely intact. I think

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I used the word brutality somewhere, but I was curious,

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how are you able to summon that feeling, that Stephen

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King feeling well, keeping it your own?

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Yeah, well, I think that My son and I talked

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about this recently. But you know, there's a difference. The

237
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reason why we call it oh I organic intelligence, why

238
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it will always be better than AI in the arts,

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is that AI just scrapes all these works and then

240
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recapitulates it into some Frankenstein's monster. Oh I is what

241
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we do when we read other people. We absorb that first,

242
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we imitate it, and then eventually we're able to you know,

243
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eventually we have our own voice, we develop our own voice,

244
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but those influences kind of remain. And I think that

245
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that's kind of the situation with me and Stephen King.

246
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It's like reading so much of him so early, so frequently,

247
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so exclusively was going to have I think an indelible

248
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impact on my instrument as a writer. And I still

249
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revisit him. I'm a constant reader, So I go back,

250
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and you know, I will reread a lot of Stephen King.

251
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The Dark Tower series. I'll go back to I'll go

252
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back to it, I'll go back to the Shining Salem's

253
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Lot the Stand, and then I'll read his new ones too,

254
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And so I think that his influence is constantly kind

255
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of filtered through my organic intelligence and will always be

256
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part of my voice. It's definitely my voice, as you said,

257
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but always be Stephen King flavor, and I would and

258
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I would say too, like if you know, when I

259
00:15:04.440 --> 00:15:09.320
read King, I still see or feel like Richard Matheson

260
00:15:09.399 --> 00:15:13.720
and him, I still feel some of his influences in him,

261
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some of sometimes I feel some Ray Bradberry and Stephen King.

262
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Sometimes I feel, you know, some of the crime right,

263
00:15:21.639 --> 00:15:23.960
Like John D. McDonald. I'll feel that a little bit

264
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in mister Mercedes. So it's like I can sense that

265
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in him as well. So I don't think it's at

266
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all unique to me. I think you'd probably agree that

267
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most of us have those writers that will always they've

268
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imprinted themselves on us, and they'll always in some way

269
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echo in our work.

270
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Absolutely, I can you know you saying that kind of

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makes me think that, Yeah, that's I got that going

272
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to I think almost every writer probably does. Yeah, that

273
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makes a lot of sense. But like while I was

274
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reading it, I was like especially the first I don't

275
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know how many pages, but the very beginning, I was like, wow,

276
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this is just like going back into the Stand. I'm here, dude, right.

277
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That's good to hear. That's good to hear because I

278
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I did make a conscious effort to to listen to

279
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I reread The Stand and I listened to it, you know,

280
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quite a bit before I wrote that story, just because

281
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not because I wanted to sound like King, but because

282
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I wanted to live in that world and I wanted

283
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my story to be of that world, of the Stand world.

284
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So sure, now, can you tell us what Leonora is about?

285
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For people who who should be reading it?

286
00:16:30.679 --> 00:16:35.399
Yeah, there's a there's a man who's lost everything and

287
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lost everything before Captain Trips, before the plague, and he

288
00:16:40.679 --> 00:16:43.679
has been through just about everything a person can go

289
00:16:43.759 --> 00:16:47.000
through and just wants to be left alone. And he

290
00:16:47.120 --> 00:16:50.120
is asked in the opening scene to take care of

291
00:16:50.159 --> 00:16:54.120
this little animal. It's a it's a baby antelope called

292
00:16:54.120 --> 00:16:57.480
a dick dick and sweet little animal. But he's asked

293
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to take care of and he doesn't want to, and

294
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that's kind of where the story begins.

295
00:17:01.879 --> 00:17:05.960
I like that idea because he's not denying this little

296
00:17:05.960 --> 00:17:10.079
animal because he's cold hearted. He's denying the animal because

297
00:17:10.119 --> 00:17:12.039
he's lost so much and he doesn't want to lose

298
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again and he knows he's going to and so so

299
00:17:15.960 --> 00:17:17.759
it takes some we're not going to get into it,

300
00:17:17.799 --> 00:17:19.880
but it takes some circumstances for him to fall in

301
00:17:19.920 --> 00:17:22.559
love with this little creature and then become its protector.

302
00:17:23.160 --> 00:17:26.000
And man, this story is so heartbreaking. I mean it's

303
00:17:26.039 --> 00:17:30.119
not just involving that. There's other things that happen that

304
00:17:30.680 --> 00:17:33.720
not just the dick dick, but uh, but yeah, we're

305
00:17:33.720 --> 00:17:35.359
not going to get into it, but like this, this

306
00:17:36.319 --> 00:17:39.880
the story had me not sobbing, but my eyes were wet,

307
00:17:39.960 --> 00:17:43.240
man Like, especially about I guess the halfway point to

308
00:17:43.279 --> 00:17:48.680
the end. I was just like Jesus' gans, well, thank you.

309
00:17:49.880 --> 00:17:53.200
I appreciate that a lot. I was very emotional writing

310
00:17:53.240 --> 00:17:57.400
it and editing it, and yeah, I just think the

311
00:17:57.480 --> 00:18:01.519
Stand the Stand is about everything, like that's what's I think.

312
00:18:01.599 --> 00:18:04.720
What's so what resonates so much about it is is

313
00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:08.039
that it's life Like it is all of life captured

314
00:18:08.079 --> 00:18:11.359
in a book. And that means the good, the horrific,

315
00:18:11.480 --> 00:18:15.680
the the hopeful, the the you know, the the desolate

316
00:18:15.839 --> 00:18:20.920
like everything, and you know, so I think that Baker Ludlow,

317
00:18:21.279 --> 00:18:24.160
the protagonist of it, I think that he's been through

318
00:18:25.279 --> 00:18:31.160
so much and and we see other people go through things.

319
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For me, sometimes I kind of wonder how people go

320
00:18:33.920 --> 00:18:37.359
on Like I just have so much admiration for people

321
00:18:37.400 --> 00:18:40.079
who who are like Baker, who have lost so much

322
00:18:40.119 --> 00:18:42.880
and then find a way to to just keep it

323
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even existing. Yeah much less like live with hope and

324
00:18:46.799 --> 00:18:50.240
love and all those things. But yeah, I just think

325
00:18:50.279 --> 00:18:54.400
that I think that in Baker's situation, I think it's

326
00:18:54.599 --> 00:18:57.480
very I don't know. I think it connects to what

327
00:18:57.519 --> 00:19:01.279
the characters go through, you know, the canonical characters like

328
00:19:01.319 --> 00:19:05.400
Stu Redmon and Larry Underwood and Franny, and you know,

329
00:19:05.519 --> 00:19:10.160
they they lose everything, you know, they have to rebuild

330
00:19:10.200 --> 00:19:14.519
their lives from the ashes of the world. And Baker

331
00:19:14.640 --> 00:19:19.440
is in that situation and if anything, he's lost more. So. Yeah,

332
00:19:19.480 --> 00:19:21.599
I think that that. I think that's always kind of

333
00:19:21.599 --> 00:19:25.559
fascinated me. I always kind of like wonder how people

334
00:19:25.839 --> 00:19:28.480
can do that, and it I think it edifies me

335
00:19:28.559 --> 00:19:31.400
and gives me hope that people somehow can.

336
00:19:32.920 --> 00:19:35.519
It's funny you mentioned that because I was just talking

337
00:19:35.759 --> 00:19:42.000
about loss and writing about loss. And on this podcast

338
00:19:42.640 --> 00:19:47.400
with Chris Panit here we were talking about how I

339
00:19:47.440 --> 00:19:49.519
forgot how it came up, but I was like, you know,

340
00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:53.519
if I ever lost my son, I don't know what

341
00:19:53.559 --> 00:19:56.880
would keep me from drinking myself to death, right, And

342
00:19:57.359 --> 00:19:59.720
then we talked about that for a while and it

343
00:19:59.759 --> 00:20:03.960
was a it was really kind of personal and dark conversation.

344
00:20:05.400 --> 00:20:08.920
But you know, it's an interesting topic because I think

345
00:20:09.359 --> 00:20:11.759
that's the power of fiction, isn't it. Like it can

346
00:20:12.200 --> 00:20:14.799
teach you to not be okay with it, but to

347
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be okay not being okay.

348
00:20:16.720 --> 00:20:21.079
Yeah, yeah, And I like that. I like that and too, Yeah,

349
00:20:21.200 --> 00:20:26.160
to show that not being okay is a that's kind

350
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of like that's part of being a human is yeah,

351
00:20:31.079 --> 00:20:34.200
And I think that's I think permission, like like fiction

352
00:20:34.359 --> 00:20:39.240
gives us permission to embrace that and understand that and

353
00:20:39.680 --> 00:20:42.680
have empathy for others who are going through things, and

354
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then also maybe give grace to ourselves when we're going

355
00:20:47.200 --> 00:20:52.960
through things. So I fiction, just fiction makes the world better,

356
00:20:53.440 --> 00:20:56.079
like it really does, and that's that's one of the

357
00:20:56.079 --> 00:21:00.240
things that I just I will always be thankful for

358
00:21:00.319 --> 00:21:03.319
the fiction writers I've read and always thankful for the

359
00:21:03.359 --> 00:21:06.160
opportunity to write it because I think that you know,

360
00:21:06.200 --> 00:21:08.759
it's one of the most powerful of all art forms.

361
00:21:09.319 --> 00:21:12.079
Absolutely. I know it's done a lot for me. That's

362
00:21:12.119 --> 00:21:15.279
the reason why I still read today. Kind of saved

363
00:21:15.279 --> 00:21:17.359
me out of some rough periods when I was younger,

364
00:21:18.319 --> 00:21:21.359
and I know it did you too, as we kind

365
00:21:21.359 --> 00:21:25.119
of brushed upon in the beginning there. Yeah, but going

366
00:21:25.200 --> 00:21:29.079
back to Lenora, I know that wasn't your original idea

367
00:21:29.200 --> 00:21:31.680
for this, for your contribution to the End of the

368
00:21:31.680 --> 00:21:36.079
World anthology. And I want to be nosy here. I

369
00:21:36.119 --> 00:21:39.599
know that you had to scrap it because it had

370
00:21:39.599 --> 00:21:42.039
certain characters or whatnot that you couldn't use. That was

371
00:21:42.079 --> 00:21:45.400
like the one stipulation Stephen King put down on the tables,

372
00:21:45.480 --> 00:21:48.960
you can't use any of the main characters. So being nosy,

373
00:21:49.000 --> 00:21:51.200
I want to know what was the story that you

374
00:21:51.279 --> 00:21:52.279
end up scrapping.

375
00:21:53.000 --> 00:21:56.599
So one thing that I don't know. I think I

376
00:21:56.720 --> 00:22:01.039
misunderstood this originally because I heard Brian, Because when Brian

377
00:22:01.200 --> 00:22:04.640
told me Brian Keene that we weren't supposed to use

378
00:22:05.480 --> 00:22:08.480
the main characters at the stand, I think I assumed

379
00:22:08.519 --> 00:22:10.480
that it was Stephen King who said that. But it

380
00:22:10.519 --> 00:22:13.920
turns out it was Brian and Chris Oh okay decision,

381
00:22:14.119 --> 00:22:17.519
which I think is that was a wonderful decision.

382
00:22:17.640 --> 00:22:19.880
Yeah, it was Prabay for the better anyway, Ran it was.

383
00:22:19.920 --> 00:22:22.079
I mean, and you know, a big debate I've seen

384
00:22:22.079 --> 00:22:26.359
pop up online about this whole project is the phrase

385
00:22:26.440 --> 00:22:29.240
fan fiction and then whether or not this is fan

386
00:22:29.319 --> 00:22:32.480
fiction or not. And I think that I'm to the

387
00:22:32.519 --> 00:22:35.200
point now where I'm like, it doesn't really matter, like

388
00:22:35.279 --> 00:22:37.599
what you call it. I mean, we are fans and

389
00:22:37.640 --> 00:22:39.519
it is fiction, and it's said in his so I

390
00:22:39.519 --> 00:22:42.400
guess by definition it is. I don't think it's kind

391
00:22:42.440 --> 00:22:46.240
of like the traditional fan fiction. Traditional fan fiction would

392
00:22:46.279 --> 00:22:48.880
would be like, you know, a prequel for Stu Redman

393
00:22:49.200 --> 00:22:53.440
or or you know, the side story with Larry Underwood

394
00:22:53.519 --> 00:22:55.720
or something that's that's not what this is. And I

395
00:22:55.720 --> 00:22:59.119
think that I think that that separation from the main

396
00:22:59.200 --> 00:23:02.839
characters I think really empowered the writers in this project.

397
00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:05.839
At least speaking for myself, it empowered us to go

398
00:23:05.880 --> 00:23:09.200
in different directions and find things that maybe would have

399
00:23:09.200 --> 00:23:12.279
been more interesting, because like Stu isn't mine, you know,

400
00:23:12.920 --> 00:23:17.640
Randall Flagg isn't mine, trash can Man isn't mine. So,

401
00:23:17.839 --> 00:23:19.839
I mean, I know the whole world isn't mine either,

402
00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:24.039
but still I think that, you know, the world is

403
00:23:24.160 --> 00:23:26.200
vast enough that I was able to find this little

404
00:23:26.200 --> 00:23:28.519
out of the way area that I could kind of

405
00:23:28.599 --> 00:23:33.279
make partially mine. But no, to answer your question, the

406
00:23:33.400 --> 00:23:36.039
idea that I originally had, so I went into it

407
00:23:36.079 --> 00:23:38.119
when when Brian asked me. So there are two phone

408
00:23:38.119 --> 00:23:41.440
calls from Brian. The first I was at my house

409
00:23:41.519 --> 00:23:44.839
and Brian called and invited me into this, and I

410
00:23:44.960 --> 00:23:48.680
was just like, I had this. I was so excited

411
00:23:48.839 --> 00:23:53.279
and so grateful, but I also felt immediate pressure just

412
00:23:53.279 --> 00:23:56.640
because I knew this had to be like the best

413
00:23:56.640 --> 00:23:58.960
short story I'd ever written. I mean, it just did.

414
00:23:59.160 --> 00:24:03.400
It needed to be special. And so I immediately started

415
00:24:03.440 --> 00:24:07.240
thinking about Stephen King's importance in my life and how

416
00:24:07.279 --> 00:24:10.119
much he's done for me. And I got this notion

417
00:24:10.240 --> 00:24:13.160
in my head that, Okay, I've got to somehow pay

418
00:24:13.160 --> 00:24:16.279
homage to him. I've got to somehow like thank him

419
00:24:16.400 --> 00:24:20.640
through these you know, through these words. And and what

420
00:24:20.720 --> 00:24:23.200
that ended up doing was it guided my thinking in

421
00:24:23.240 --> 00:24:26.559
a very kind of unhelpful way. So the basic story

422
00:24:26.680 --> 00:24:29.519
was going to be there were going to be two characters,

423
00:24:29.599 --> 00:24:32.880
and they were trying to get to They're trying to

424
00:24:32.920 --> 00:24:35.079
get somewhere. We don't know where yet, and I don't

425
00:24:35.119 --> 00:24:37.240
want to. If you've not read the stand maybe kind

426
00:24:37.240 --> 00:24:40.240
of tune out for just a second. You find out

427
00:24:40.519 --> 00:24:42.759
and they go through all this peril. It was kind

428
00:24:42.759 --> 00:24:45.480
of inspired a little bit by The Road Cormack McCarthy's

429
00:24:45.519 --> 00:24:48.240
The Road, which I just love. But they go through

430
00:24:48.279 --> 00:24:51.480
some terrible things on the road, and then eventually they

431
00:24:51.880 --> 00:24:55.559
end up at this house in the country, and I

432
00:24:55.640 --> 00:24:57.359
think by this time it's in the east because it's

433
00:24:57.359 --> 00:25:01.279
where Stu Redmond and Franny are living. Yeah, and they

434
00:25:01.279 --> 00:25:03.599
have a daughter, I think at this point. And when

435
00:25:03.599 --> 00:25:07.119
we find out that their daughter is depressed, she's like

436
00:25:07.160 --> 00:25:09.599
because she doesn't have any playmates. They're all out there

437
00:25:09.640 --> 00:25:13.240
all alone, and she feels that lack and Stu and

438
00:25:13.279 --> 00:25:16.079
Franny know she's down, but they don't know why. But

439
00:25:16.119 --> 00:25:19.000
there she's she's further down than they think she is.

440
00:25:19.519 --> 00:25:23.759
So she's really like in a bad place emotionally and

441
00:25:23.759 --> 00:25:26.559
in this and the main characters are trying to bring

442
00:25:26.680 --> 00:25:30.720
something to her and to cheer her up, and what

443
00:25:30.799 --> 00:25:33.200
they present her with at the end is a puppy

444
00:25:34.519 --> 00:25:37.759
because they know that she needs a companion. They like

445
00:25:37.799 --> 00:25:40.480
have had dreams that she needs a companion, and so

446
00:25:40.680 --> 00:25:43.720
like in my mind, and then that that cheers her up.

447
00:25:43.759 --> 00:25:47.680
And in my mind that was like the puppy sounds

448
00:25:47.759 --> 00:25:51.519
kind of silly and simplistic, but the idea was, you know,

449
00:25:51.599 --> 00:25:55.119
because that kid in the story Stu and Franny's child

450
00:25:55.799 --> 00:25:59.920
was my fourteen year old self who was just completely

451
00:26:00.519 --> 00:26:06.839
without confidence, without happiness, without self esteem. And this, this

452
00:26:07.079 --> 00:26:11.200
like jolt of love and joy was Stephen King's work.

453
00:26:11.839 --> 00:26:14.240
And so I think metaphorically I wasn't thinking of it

454
00:26:14.279 --> 00:26:16.720
in those terms. I couldn't identify all that stuff yet.

455
00:26:16.720 --> 00:26:18.839
But thinking back on it, I think that's kind of

456
00:26:18.839 --> 00:26:22.519
what that symbolized. And honestly it was. It would have

457
00:26:22.519 --> 00:26:24.640
been fine, It would have been fine, It would have

458
00:26:24.640 --> 00:26:26.680
been okay, and blah blah. There was like a little

459
00:26:26.680 --> 00:26:28.720
easter egg at the end for fans of the stand

460
00:26:28.799 --> 00:26:34.839
with Stue any but but it wasn't nearly wasn't nearly

461
00:26:34.880 --> 00:26:38.640
what Leonora became. I think, and and and Brian with

462
00:26:38.680 --> 00:26:40.480
a second phone call. I was at the school when

463
00:26:40.519 --> 00:26:43.400
he called, and that's when he said, because there's about

464
00:26:43.440 --> 00:26:46.000
two week interim between that, I was thinking about that story,

465
00:26:46.400 --> 00:26:50.079
and he says, yeah, Jonathan, uh, you know, I'm glad

466
00:26:50.119 --> 00:26:52.279
you're gonna do this, and uh, just a couple of

467
00:26:52.319 --> 00:26:55.640
ground rules. That was the main ground rule. And so

468
00:26:55.799 --> 00:26:59.200
my first response in my head was like, oh, dang,

469
00:26:59.319 --> 00:27:03.960
the only idea one. Literally within fifteen minutes, I was like,

470
00:27:05.079 --> 00:27:08.359
I felt this lightning because I felt this like unburdening

471
00:27:08.440 --> 00:27:11.000
because I didn't like the idea that much anyway, I

472
00:27:12.000 --> 00:27:14.640
kind of recognized it for what it was, which was

473
00:27:14.720 --> 00:27:18.799
just my own very pure desire to thank him. But

474
00:27:18.839 --> 00:27:22.400
that wasn't really the place where I needed to come

475
00:27:22.440 --> 00:27:25.400
from to write the best story I could write. So

476
00:27:25.440 --> 00:27:27.680
that let me shed all of that and then I

477
00:27:27.720 --> 00:27:30.039
was able to start from scratch. And then within a day,

478
00:27:30.599 --> 00:27:32.759
Lenora started to come to me, and then it was

479
00:27:33.039 --> 00:27:36.920
fun like my writing always is, and it was liberating

480
00:27:37.200 --> 00:27:39.720
and exciting and awesome, awesome.

481
00:27:40.240 --> 00:27:42.079
I really love that story.

482
00:27:43.279 --> 00:27:46.519
Thank you. I've told it, I've never I don't think

483
00:27:46.559 --> 00:27:48.839
i've ever. Yeah, well, very cool.

484
00:27:49.240 --> 00:27:52.440
It's an interesting like I would have been interested in

485
00:27:52.440 --> 00:27:57.519
that first version honestly, but you know, Leonora is like incredible,

486
00:27:57.839 --> 00:28:04.559
thank you. I also noticed on social media. I think

487
00:28:04.559 --> 00:28:08.279
it was Threads again. You you you recommended reading Alma

488
00:28:08.359 --> 00:28:11.680
Katsu's story on and so of course I just went

489
00:28:11.759 --> 00:28:14.000
right to it because like, okay, Jonathan Jan says, and

490
00:28:14.160 --> 00:28:17.039
my god, that that is really good as well. It

491
00:28:17.119 --> 00:28:19.440
kind of had like a Steinbeck feel to it in

492
00:28:19.440 --> 00:28:22.960
my opinion. I like that, Oh absolutely, so so thank

493
00:28:23.000 --> 00:28:25.079
you for recommending me. I mean, I'm kind of skipping

494
00:28:25.119 --> 00:28:26.880
around the book. I'm not reading it in order, which

495
00:28:26.880 --> 00:28:29.920
I probably should, but it's like it's like, you know,

496
00:28:30.240 --> 00:28:32.680
you get excited, right. I went to yours first, and

497
00:28:32.720 --> 00:28:34.240
then I went to a bunch of others, and then

498
00:28:34.279 --> 00:28:38.319
I read Alma Katsu and I should really just settle

499
00:28:38.359 --> 00:28:41.880
down and read it in order.

500
00:28:41.279 --> 00:28:44.960
Her story was just so like it felt to me

501
00:28:45.240 --> 00:28:48.240
just like I don't know that it's it's like I

502
00:28:48.279 --> 00:28:50.720
felt like it was like in the mountains, like Man

503
00:28:50.759 --> 00:28:53.720
from Snowy River and all this stuff. It just felt

504
00:28:53.759 --> 00:28:58.160
so rustic and real, like the setting was so evocative

505
00:28:58.200 --> 00:29:01.119
and vivid, and then you have you know, you know,

506
00:29:01.160 --> 00:29:02.759
I mean, we're not going to spoil the story, but

507
00:29:03.440 --> 00:29:07.720
like it really was a good plot and I just

508
00:29:07.799 --> 00:29:12.000
love the main character. Yeahmination and I just felt like

509
00:29:12.079 --> 00:29:17.160
Alma Alma. Like told, it's a short story, but it

510
00:29:17.240 --> 00:29:20.119
has the weight I think of the novel in that

511
00:29:20.240 --> 00:29:24.160
short story, so it's kind of epic. But I loved it.

512
00:29:24.160 --> 00:29:25.319
I thought it was so good.

513
00:29:25.680 --> 00:29:30.759
And she uses an animal as well she does, yeah,

514
00:29:30.839 --> 00:29:34.920
which although you don't get attached to the horse, not

515
00:29:35.000 --> 00:29:38.640
as much as as the dictic, but it's still there

516
00:29:38.680 --> 00:29:40.160
and you kind of care for it because the main

517
00:29:40.240 --> 00:29:41.640
character cares for it so much?

518
00:29:41.960 --> 00:29:42.319
Agreed?

519
00:29:43.680 --> 00:29:46.599
What is it about animals and people people writing animals

520
00:29:46.599 --> 00:29:51.720
into fiction? Every time I see a dog in a story,

521
00:29:51.759 --> 00:29:53.079
I'm afraid it's going to die.

522
00:29:53.440 --> 00:29:58.319
Yeah, yeah, for sure. And no, I just I think that, uh,

523
00:29:58.880 --> 00:30:02.599
you know, we talk about talk about the human experience.

524
00:30:02.680 --> 00:30:05.640
I think animals are such an important part of it.

525
00:30:06.440 --> 00:30:10.759
And like, for me, there are two influences on Lenora.

526
00:30:10.759 --> 00:30:12.200
I don't know if I've ever said this to you

527
00:30:12.359 --> 00:30:19.559
or One influence was my dog. I've got this dog

528
00:30:19.640 --> 00:30:23.559
and she is she is so just amazing. She the

529
00:30:23.599 --> 00:30:27.279
moment I come home, she's like on me and running

530
00:30:27.279 --> 00:30:31.160
between my legs, and she goes upstairs with me and

531
00:30:31.200 --> 00:30:33.400
I changed my clothes. She goes down and sits by

532
00:30:33.400 --> 00:30:36.200
my chair as I eat as I sleep, she sleeps

533
00:30:36.240 --> 00:30:40.119
between my knees, and she's just like my constant companion.

534
00:30:40.200 --> 00:30:42.920
She's just the sweetest dog in the world. Elle is

535
00:30:42.960 --> 00:30:46.599
her name, and so I really wanted to capture some

536
00:30:46.680 --> 00:30:49.640
of her spirit in Leonora and some of my love

537
00:30:49.720 --> 00:30:53.119
for Elle in in Lenora. And I think I did that.

538
00:30:53.200 --> 00:30:56.119
And then the other thing kind of a weird connection.

539
00:30:56.279 --> 00:31:01.119
But Guardian Guardians of the Galaxy three, Oh god, Yeah,

540
00:31:01.200 --> 00:31:02.839
I think came out around that time that I was

541
00:31:02.880 --> 00:31:06.279
writing Lenora, or I saw it around that time, And

542
00:31:07.400 --> 00:31:10.200
I mean it's just, you know, the idea that we

543
00:31:10.279 --> 00:31:13.519
as humans can do whatever we want to animals, you know,

544
00:31:13.599 --> 00:31:18.559
without repercussions, without feeling, without caring. I mean, I think

545
00:31:18.599 --> 00:31:20.799
all of us are to a degree guilty of that

546
00:31:21.000 --> 00:31:24.160
at some point or another. But I think we need

547
00:31:24.160 --> 00:31:28.440
to be more sensitive to that and introspective about that

548
00:31:28.599 --> 00:31:31.599
and more aware of it. And because that movie really

549
00:31:31.640 --> 00:31:34.359
hit me. I just thought it was a really I

550
00:31:34.359 --> 00:31:35.920
think I thought it had a good heart, and I

551
00:31:35.920 --> 00:31:37.720
thought it was a very painful movie to watch.

552
00:31:38.039 --> 00:31:42.519
Yeah, especially that prison scene. Yeah, that's like the hardest

553
00:31:42.599 --> 00:31:45.359
thing I remember, because we took our son to watch that,

554
00:31:45.559 --> 00:31:49.200
and we weren't expecting it at all and he started crying, right. Yeah,

555
00:31:49.480 --> 00:31:51.200
we were like, you know, I wish there was a

556
00:31:51.240 --> 00:31:55.519
warning or something because he's so upset now. But at

557
00:31:55.559 --> 00:31:57.279
the same time, though, it's a good lesson, you know,

558
00:31:57.519 --> 00:32:01.519
like of human cruelty, and yeah.

559
00:32:00.920 --> 00:32:02.920
That's right, and it really, I tell you what, giving

560
00:32:02.920 --> 00:32:06.359
you a better understanding of rocket too, I mean that. Yeah,

561
00:32:06.440 --> 00:32:08.720
I didn't see that coming. I just thought the whole

562
00:32:08.759 --> 00:32:13.039
thing was a surprise and a very special direction to go,

563
00:32:13.119 --> 00:32:14.519
and I admired it for that.

564
00:32:15.000 --> 00:32:19.640
Yeah, me too. I haven't watched it again since because

565
00:32:19.640 --> 00:32:24.960
of that scene. Right before we move on to Vail.

566
00:32:25.480 --> 00:32:28.839
I was just curious, what other Stephen King books would

567
00:32:28.880 --> 00:32:31.960
you think would be fun to write a story for

568
00:32:32.279 --> 00:32:35.359
in like a dedicated anthology like The End of the World.

569
00:32:36.839 --> 00:32:41.240
I was thinking, like it under the Dome. I think

570
00:32:41.279 --> 00:32:45.119
he could do something with Tommy Knockers too, and maybe

571
00:32:45.240 --> 00:32:47.839
Needful Things. What do you what do you have on

572
00:32:47.880 --> 00:32:48.279
the table?

573
00:32:48.720 --> 00:32:51.519
I hadn't thought of Tommy Knockers in Needful Things, but

574
00:32:51.599 --> 00:32:54.000
now that you say that, absolutely.

575
00:32:53.440 --> 00:32:55.319
He totally could because it's a whole town.

576
00:32:55.279 --> 00:32:59.000
Right right Leland Gaunt and all that. Yeah, that was phenomenal.

577
00:33:00.079 --> 00:33:02.839
Yeah for me, the ones I think that recur when

578
00:33:02.880 --> 00:33:05.400
I think about like a universe kind of like the

579
00:33:05.440 --> 00:33:07.720
end of the world as we know it. I think

580
00:33:07.759 --> 00:33:10.519
of it, of course, like that's like because you've got

581
00:33:10.559 --> 00:33:14.720
the whole history there. Yeah, and that's fascinating in the

582
00:33:14.759 --> 00:33:20.480
future too, probably, so it I think that the Dark Tower, oh.

583
00:33:20.400 --> 00:33:21.680
Yeah, I didn't even think of that.

584
00:33:21.880 --> 00:33:27.480
Geez vast, so vast, and it's such a vivid, fascinating world.

585
00:33:27.519 --> 00:33:31.599
It contains all worlds, yeah, like our I think Salem's

586
00:33:31.640 --> 00:33:34.200
Lot and The Shining are two others that I think

587
00:33:34.200 --> 00:33:35.920
would be really fascinating.

588
00:33:36.359 --> 00:33:37.279
Absolutely, yeah.

589
00:33:37.400 --> 00:33:39.720
I mean, you know, the Overlook is so iconic, and

590
00:33:39.720 --> 00:33:41.680
then Doctor Sleep is part of that universe, and I

591
00:33:41.720 --> 00:33:45.480
love Doctor Sleep like Salem's Lot, you know. I mean

592
00:33:45.519 --> 00:33:49.319
that's just that that book is another one that imprinted itself.

593
00:33:49.440 --> 00:33:51.920
All four of those things did that I just mentioned,

594
00:33:51.960 --> 00:33:53.720
So I think those are the four that pop out

595
00:33:53.720 --> 00:33:54.319
the most.

596
00:33:54.720 --> 00:33:56.559
I think I would add the one. I think the

597
00:33:56.599 --> 00:33:58.400
only one that I didn't put on there or that

598
00:33:58.440 --> 00:34:00.400
I did put on there, was it. So I'm gonna

599
00:34:00.640 --> 00:34:03.839
have to add those other ones because I didn't especially

600
00:34:03.960 --> 00:34:05.519
the Dark Tower. How did I not think of the

601
00:34:05.559 --> 00:34:06.279
Dark Tower.

602
00:34:06.079 --> 00:34:08.679
That that would be separate. You know, it's kind of

603
00:34:08.679 --> 00:34:11.400
a part and something. It's interwoven with a lot of

604
00:34:11.400 --> 00:34:13.599
his stuff, but it does seem, you know, kind of

605
00:34:13.599 --> 00:34:15.119
like its own beast. Yeah.

606
00:34:15.159 --> 00:34:18.880
Absolutely, that ending of Dark Tower, man, I absolutely love it.

607
00:34:19.280 --> 00:34:21.360
Yeah, I do too. It took me a while to

608
00:34:21.440 --> 00:34:24.159
kind of come to terms with it. Oh yeah, yeah,

609
00:34:24.199 --> 00:34:26.039
I mean not in a bad way, but it just

610
00:34:26.079 --> 00:34:28.840
like kind of took me aback. I was shocked and

611
00:34:28.880 --> 00:34:30.599
now I kind of feel like it's the only way

612
00:34:30.639 --> 00:34:31.360
that could have ended.

613
00:34:31.719 --> 00:34:35.800
Yeah, I just love that that ending, that end, Like

614
00:34:35.880 --> 00:34:38.320
I loved the whole series, but the ending was just

615
00:34:38.360 --> 00:34:40.519
like what made it for me. I love that kind

616
00:34:40.519 --> 00:34:43.400
of weird stuff, like how it ends. It ends on

617
00:34:43.440 --> 00:34:44.079
a weird.

618
00:34:43.840 --> 00:34:48.199
Note, right, and I expected, I think, yeah.

619
00:34:47.719 --> 00:34:50.239
And so I got my juices flowing and I was like.

620
00:34:50.480 --> 00:34:54.440
Yeah, absolutely absolutely man.

621
00:34:55.519 --> 00:34:58.639
All right, So you you mentioned when is the release

622
00:34:58.679 --> 00:34:59.679
date for vail Or?

623
00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:03.320
Oh? Sorry, yeah, September sixteenth, up on it.

624
00:35:03.400 --> 00:35:09.199
Yeah, I have re ordered it the physical copy. I

625
00:35:09.280 --> 00:35:11.480
noticed that some people seem to be getting it early,

626
00:35:11.519 --> 00:35:13.760
so I was kind of hoping, crossing my fingers that

627
00:35:13.760 --> 00:35:15.320
I would get it. So I could show it on

628
00:35:15.639 --> 00:35:18.960
the screen, but of course it's not here. I live

629
00:35:19.000 --> 00:35:21.079
in Canada, so it's probably gonna take forever to get

630
00:35:21.079 --> 00:35:24.440
here in the first Yeah, yeah, probably.

631
00:35:24.519 --> 00:35:26.360
Yeah, So can.

632
00:35:26.239 --> 00:35:28.599
You tell us what Vail is about for people who

633
00:35:29.039 --> 00:35:30.039
are going to want to read it?

634
00:35:30.480 --> 00:35:36.639
Yeah, Basically, people start disappearing. They are taken by invisible

635
00:35:36.679 --> 00:35:42.119
creatures of some sort, and our main character loses and

636
00:35:42.199 --> 00:35:44.360
I'm not going to spoil the book, but he loses

637
00:35:44.960 --> 00:35:49.760
more than one family member, and Earth is under siege

638
00:35:49.920 --> 00:35:53.039
and they can't stop these creatures because they can't see him.

639
00:35:53.039 --> 00:35:57.039
They can't predict when they'll strike, when they'll abduct, And

640
00:35:57.119 --> 00:36:01.760
the first glimmer of hope happens when one person, it

641
00:36:01.840 --> 00:36:04.159
turns out, can see them because this person's had a

642
00:36:04.159 --> 00:36:07.599
car accident and had this terrible brain injury. But the

643
00:36:07.599 --> 00:36:11.800
brain injury allows this person to see the creatures, and

644
00:36:11.880 --> 00:36:16.920
so there's this radical plan by this group of survivors

645
00:36:17.320 --> 00:36:21.760
to have that brain surgery to replicate that injury so

646
00:36:21.800 --> 00:36:24.079
they can see the creatures, do battle with them, and

647
00:36:24.119 --> 00:36:27.360
get their loved ones back. So that's yeah, that's what

648
00:36:27.760 --> 00:36:28.360
Veils about.

649
00:36:28.440 --> 00:36:32.079
Yeah, and I I really liked this book.

650
00:36:33.119 --> 00:36:33.519
Thank you.

651
00:36:34.239 --> 00:36:36.920
It's gonna make my my personal top ten at the

652
00:36:36.960 --> 00:36:39.960
end of the year. Awesome. Well, we'll see where exactly,

653
00:36:40.079 --> 00:36:44.679
but it's definitely going to be up there. So how

654
00:36:44.760 --> 00:36:46.480
is Veil different from your back catalog?

655
00:36:47.480 --> 00:36:52.639
Yeah, I think that it is. Well, uh, you know,

656
00:36:52.679 --> 00:36:59.760
I I've I've written in first person before, so but

657
00:37:00.119 --> 00:37:03.039
most of my work is like third person, so there

658
00:37:03.079 --> 00:37:07.960
it's slightly different. Probably it's probably only in about twenty

659
00:37:08.000 --> 00:37:09.840
percent of my work have I gone first person. So

660
00:37:09.880 --> 00:37:15.320
it's first person narrative, a single narrator narrator, and I

661
00:37:15.320 --> 00:37:21.079
think it's just got this intensity and kind of momentum

662
00:37:21.119 --> 00:37:23.360
that just kind of builds and builds throughout the book.

663
00:37:23.960 --> 00:37:26.559
I think it's really tight, and it's not like I

664
00:37:26.559 --> 00:37:29.480
don't think my others are, but like this one, I

665
00:37:29.559 --> 00:37:32.320
was just ruthless with and just cutting and cutting and

666
00:37:32.320 --> 00:37:35.079
cutting and getting it down to its bare of bones,

667
00:37:35.119 --> 00:37:38.920
and I just think it's all meat and no gristle

668
00:37:39.000 --> 00:37:42.199
or fat. So I think it's just And now, also

669
00:37:42.239 --> 00:37:44.159
what I like about it is I think that it's

670
00:37:45.639 --> 00:37:49.519
it's both like a very intimate story about one man

671
00:37:49.719 --> 00:37:53.480
this family and then these survivors with whom he becomes friends.

672
00:37:54.039 --> 00:37:57.440
But at the same time, it's got this global facet

673
00:37:57.519 --> 00:38:00.199
to it that I think is really fun because I've

674
00:38:00.199 --> 00:38:04.920
always loved like I love fi sci fi horror, I

675
00:38:04.920 --> 00:38:08.559
love alien invasion stories. Yeah, and there are some good ones.

676
00:38:08.599 --> 00:38:11.599
There's some good sci fi horror and good alien invasion stories,

677
00:38:12.199 --> 00:38:14.880
but just in my opinion, I don't think there are

678
00:38:15.199 --> 00:38:17.480
that many. Like I feel like it's kind of an

679
00:38:17.639 --> 00:38:23.079
under explored, undermined area, and that's why I just I

680
00:38:23.119 --> 00:38:26.159
feel like this is I feel like it's a nice

681
00:38:26.159 --> 00:38:27.880
addition to those areas.

682
00:38:28.320 --> 00:38:31.320
It absolutely is. One of the one of my favorite

683
00:38:31.360 --> 00:38:34.480
things was the progress just like a this book is

684
00:38:34.519 --> 00:38:38.239
like a prog song, like a progressive metal song. Is

685
00:38:38.320 --> 00:38:41.679
it starts one way and it ends in a completely different,

686
00:38:42.079 --> 00:38:45.480
Like you don't know what to expect as you go. Yeah,

687
00:38:45.519 --> 00:38:48.000
but uh, there's also this part that I really wanted

688
00:38:48.000 --> 00:38:51.239
to I addressed it in my review, and I want

689
00:38:51.280 --> 00:38:53.079
to address it here because it doesn't feel like the

690
00:38:53.119 --> 00:38:55.840
book is meant to be about this, but you you

691
00:38:55.880 --> 00:38:59.400
put it in there anyway because it's very realistic, and

692
00:38:59.440 --> 00:39:02.960
that's how some people react to the alien invasion. And

693
00:39:03.000 --> 00:39:06.880
I'm thinking about like the grocery store scene that seems

694
00:39:06.920 --> 00:39:10.800
awesome because it's like it's like seeing people who would

695
00:39:10.800 --> 00:39:15.000
deny such a thing. That's that's happening. I don't know,

696
00:39:15.039 --> 00:39:17.239
it's kind of unfair to say, getting their just desserts,

697
00:39:17.280 --> 00:39:18.840
but you know what, you know what I mean, right,

698
00:39:18.880 --> 00:39:23.599
Like it's happening people, right, So what was the decision?

699
00:39:23.920 --> 00:39:26.639
Did you struggle with putting that in there? Did it

700
00:39:26.719 --> 00:39:27.800
just kind of come naturally?

701
00:39:28.119 --> 00:39:30.639
It came very naturally, And I think it's kind of

702
00:39:30.719 --> 00:39:34.719
unfortunate that it came naturally. Yeah. They you know, they

703
00:39:34.800 --> 00:39:38.000
say that fiction is the truth inside the lie. It's

704
00:39:38.079 --> 00:39:40.400
telling lies about people who never exist. It tell us

705
00:39:40.400 --> 00:39:44.280
the truth about ourselves. And I think that I think

706
00:39:44.360 --> 00:39:48.360
it's of I think it rings true. That's just it.

707
00:39:48.360 --> 00:39:50.920
It's like, you know, that's what we're seeing in our world.

708
00:39:51.079 --> 00:39:56.719
Like increasingly over the past decade, we're seeing people deny reality,

709
00:39:56.920 --> 00:40:01.639
deny science. You know, we just in the US, we

710
00:40:01.800 --> 00:40:05.079
just had the head of supposedly the head of health,

711
00:40:05.840 --> 00:40:08.000
announced that we need to not listen to the experts.

712
00:40:09.000 --> 00:40:11.400
Apparently we should listen to him. You know, a person

713
00:40:11.440 --> 00:40:14.800
who eats roadkill and is a fourteen year heroin addict,

714
00:40:15.159 --> 00:40:17.000
You know, I mean it's like, you know, you're supposed

715
00:40:17.000 --> 00:40:19.840
to be the expert. You're the head of health, and

716
00:40:19.880 --> 00:40:21.519
so we're supposed to listen to you, but we're not

717
00:40:21.519 --> 00:40:23.639
supposed to somebody to listen to somebody who spent his

718
00:40:23.840 --> 00:40:28.280
entire life studying, you know, vaccines and studying. So it's like,

719
00:40:28.679 --> 00:40:32.800
I hate to say it, but like this this anti science,

720
00:40:33.000 --> 00:40:37.880
anti learning, anti thinking, where science is the enemy, where

721
00:40:38.039 --> 00:40:42.559
universities are the enemy, where we're painting all colleges and

722
00:40:42.639 --> 00:40:47.119
universities as liberal brainwashing factories. You know. I mean, it's

723
00:40:47.159 --> 00:40:50.719
just like it's so insane, but that's where we're living

724
00:40:50.800 --> 00:40:52.960
right now. That's what's happening in our world right now.

725
00:40:53.199 --> 00:40:57.400
And think it as you alluded to this grocery store scene.

726
00:40:57.559 --> 00:41:00.360
You have people denying that this has happened. You have

727
00:41:00.400 --> 00:41:05.000
people who are mocking those who are trying to trying

728
00:41:05.039 --> 00:41:07.760
to look out for each other, trying to look at families,

729
00:41:07.800 --> 00:41:11.960
trying to observe protocols so the world doesn't descend into

730
00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:15.480
complete barbarism and chaos, and for that they're being made

731
00:41:15.519 --> 00:41:18.119
fun of. They're being called sheep because they're you know,

732
00:41:18.280 --> 00:41:21.719
trying to do logical things to stay to stay safe.

733
00:41:22.079 --> 00:41:24.000
You know, Like I just I went, I have COVID.

734
00:41:24.000 --> 00:41:26.239
I just went downstairs and I wore a mask because

735
00:41:26.239 --> 00:41:28.960
I don't want to give my daughters COVID. Yeah, and

736
00:41:29.440 --> 00:41:31.400
you would have many who would say that that's being

737
00:41:31.440 --> 00:41:34.400
a sheep, that that's being that's being foolish and all

738
00:41:34.440 --> 00:41:37.840
this stuff, and it's like absolutely, geez really, like I like,

739
00:41:37.960 --> 00:41:41.360
so in trying to prevent my daughters with the sickness,

740
00:41:41.440 --> 00:41:44.320
I'm being a sheep. I'm being a sheep. I'm being

741
00:41:44.480 --> 00:41:48.400
so anyway. I just sorry to rant, but I mean

742
00:41:48.480 --> 00:41:51.119
that's you know, it's I think it came very organically

743
00:41:51.159 --> 00:41:53.079
to the story, and I wish it didn't, but it did.

744
00:41:53.400 --> 00:41:55.599
Yeah, and that's why I brought it up, because I

745
00:41:55.639 --> 00:41:58.480
appreciated that it was in there. I wasn't expecting it,

746
00:41:58.559 --> 00:42:01.400
but when it came, I was just like, oh, you know,

747
00:42:01.679 --> 00:42:05.920
thank god, because if this book came out in twenty fifteen,

748
00:42:06.000 --> 00:42:08.000
I don't know if I would have bought that. Yeah,

749
00:42:08.119 --> 00:42:10.559
you know what I mean. But now we've seen the

750
00:42:10.599 --> 00:42:13.760
evidence and it's just like almost like everyday thing. Now,

751
00:42:14.079 --> 00:42:18.800
like you mentioned what's his face there, who's saying not

752
00:42:18.880 --> 00:42:24.639
to listen to the leaders of science and medical fact

753
00:42:24.800 --> 00:42:29.719
right right, and it's head scratching every day.

754
00:42:30.920 --> 00:42:32.719
It really is, it really is. And it's like I

755
00:42:32.719 --> 00:42:35.800
think that it's kind of the I mean not to

756
00:42:36.000 --> 00:42:38.960
again proselytize or go off on too much of a tangent,

757
00:42:39.039 --> 00:42:42.280
but I think that's one of the most devastating things

758
00:42:42.320 --> 00:42:43.880
in the past ten years, and one of the most

759
00:42:43.880 --> 00:42:49.280
devastating things about like the accessibility of information. I think

760
00:42:49.360 --> 00:42:52.440
that anybody can feel through Google like an expert now,

761
00:42:53.559 --> 00:42:56.159
and it's like, you know, and you just want to

762
00:42:56.199 --> 00:42:59.440
say to them, you know, just because you saw Aunt

763
00:42:59.559 --> 00:43:03.880
Jenny post something on Facebook from this random YouTube account,

764
00:43:04.280 --> 00:43:08.599
that doesn't make it fact. That doesn't overrule science. That

765
00:43:08.599 --> 00:43:10.519
doesn't just because you want it to be true doesn't

766
00:43:10.519 --> 00:43:13.199
mean it's true. And that doesn't mean that we should

767
00:43:13.360 --> 00:43:20.400
we should replace science and learning and medicine with these

768
00:43:20.880 --> 00:43:25.480
these beyond fringe conspiracies. But that's like and that's like

769
00:43:25.519 --> 00:43:27.840
that this whole people telling you to do your own research,

770
00:43:28.400 --> 00:43:33.480
you know, I mean, yeah, like, real research involves actual sources,

771
00:43:33.719 --> 00:43:38.599
it involves oversight, involves a painstaking, laborious process of proving

772
00:43:38.679 --> 00:43:43.840
something that's real research, you know, googling, watching some video

773
00:43:43.920 --> 00:43:48.599
that's not research. That's that's filling your head with your

774
00:43:49.119 --> 00:43:53.519
little reality that you want to believe and ignoring all

775
00:43:53.719 --> 00:43:57.679
evidence to the contrary that actually has been vetted and

776
00:43:57.840 --> 00:43:59.800
research because you don't like the conclusion.

777
00:44:00.360 --> 00:44:04.400
Yeah. Absolutely, I totally agree things need to change. I

778
00:44:04.400 --> 00:44:07.000
think maybe regulations have to be said in place, especially

779
00:44:07.000 --> 00:44:10.599
for like the media, because you know, places like New

780
00:44:10.679 --> 00:44:13.920
York Post or whatever, they'll they'll spout this stuff and

781
00:44:14.239 --> 00:44:16.679
people buy that is because it's in print and you

782
00:44:16.760 --> 00:44:18.880
can buy it at the grocery store. People buy it

783
00:44:18.960 --> 00:44:25.400
up and they believe it without without sources, without without

784
00:44:25.400 --> 00:44:28.760
any you know, receipts to prove what they're saying. And

785
00:44:29.079 --> 00:44:32.880
you know, yeah, that's uh, that's a whole other can

786
00:44:32.880 --> 00:44:39.320
of worms. That makes my blood point honestly. Uh. But yeah,

787
00:44:39.880 --> 00:44:46.119
going getting back to Vail here, h and you know this,

788
00:44:46.119 --> 00:44:48.760
this is proving this question. But I think that Veil

789
00:44:48.880 --> 00:44:52.239
it read very personal to you, and I think the

790
00:44:52.280 --> 00:44:54.079
whole thing is very personal.

791
00:44:55.039 --> 00:44:58.159
It is that correct, consuming so very very correct. Yeah.

792
00:44:58.320 --> 00:45:03.639
I it's funny. I think the two that there, they're

793
00:45:03.719 --> 00:45:06.360
kind of two prongs that I was thinking of last

794
00:45:06.400 --> 00:45:08.719
night as I was getting ready for bed. You know,

795
00:45:08.840 --> 00:45:14.840
one prong is speculative. The other prong is very raw

796
00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:19.280
and vulnerable and real. The speculative prong for me is

797
00:45:19.440 --> 00:45:24.119
what's going on in the marriage between John and Iris.

798
00:45:24.760 --> 00:45:27.239
And the thing is and one thing honestly I worried

799
00:45:27.239 --> 00:45:29.760
about when I wrote it, because because so much of

800
00:45:29.880 --> 00:45:34.079
Vaiale is like personal, I worried people would think that

801
00:45:34.559 --> 00:45:38.440
about my marriage, that that might be separation. And again

802
00:45:38.480 --> 00:45:40.840
I'm not throwing shade at people who are separated, divorced

803
00:45:40.920 --> 00:45:43.119
or whatever, but my wife and I have a really

804
00:45:43.320 --> 00:45:49.119
like positive, you know, solid relationship, and so the marriage

805
00:45:49.280 --> 00:45:52.199
in Veil is not solid. It's you know, it's separated.

806
00:45:52.239 --> 00:45:55.039
It's kind of like, you know, in its death throes.

807
00:45:55.719 --> 00:45:57.840
But for that one, what I kind of did was

808
00:45:57.880 --> 00:46:01.119
I just imagined, like, if anything ever were to break

809
00:46:01.199 --> 00:46:04.079
us apart, what would it? What would it be? And

810
00:46:04.079 --> 00:46:06.119
and then I kind of went in that direction. So

811
00:46:06.880 --> 00:46:09.559
that was I mean, I guess that was still vulnerable,

812
00:46:09.639 --> 00:46:12.119
but it was vulnerable just in like an imaginative, a

813
00:46:12.199 --> 00:46:16.920
darkly imaginative way. Yeah, the parts with the kids, like

814
00:46:17.039 --> 00:46:20.840
losing your kids and all that stuff, that was very

815
00:46:21.760 --> 00:46:25.880
raw and very much from just really quick summary here

816
00:46:26.840 --> 00:46:29.440
from the moment my first child was born, I began

817
00:46:29.599 --> 00:46:31.880
worrying about when they would leave the house. I just

818
00:46:32.000 --> 00:46:34.480
had unselfish but I just worried about it because I

819
00:46:34.519 --> 00:46:35.360
love them so much.

820
00:46:35.679 --> 00:46:36.159
I get it.

821
00:46:36.519 --> 00:46:39.920
I love having them with me. And it was so bad.

822
00:46:40.000 --> 00:46:45.360
And this anxiety was so bad that I'd always had insomnia,

823
00:46:45.400 --> 00:46:48.039
but I got. I got. I would wake up at

824
00:46:48.079 --> 00:46:51.039
like two or three in the morning sobbing, like like

825
00:46:51.119 --> 00:46:53.360
three or four times a week, just because I'm like,

826
00:46:53.440 --> 00:46:55.920
I can't They're going to leave me someday. This is

827
00:46:55.960 --> 00:46:58.280
back when my son was like in third or fourth grade,

828
00:46:58.880 --> 00:47:02.119
and I'd always looked at medicine is like a you know,

829
00:47:02.199 --> 00:47:04.400
like a it was fine for other people, but for me,

830
00:47:04.480 --> 00:47:06.960
I thought I'd be weak if I you know, took

831
00:47:07.000 --> 00:47:10.800
something for that for that anxiety. But thankfully I got

832
00:47:10.840 --> 00:47:13.559
over myself and started I've told my doctor about it

833
00:47:13.559 --> 00:47:15.239
and she was like, yeah, you need to, you need

834
00:47:15.920 --> 00:47:19.519
for this. This isn't healthy. And that really has helped.

835
00:47:19.559 --> 00:47:21.679
That helps so much, and that kind of changed my

836
00:47:21.719 --> 00:47:25.639
life because I was really struggling. But but yeah, like

837
00:47:25.679 --> 00:47:28.159
when I was writing Veil, that was that was in

838
00:47:28.199 --> 00:47:30.480
the years leading up to my son going off to

839
00:47:30.559 --> 00:47:34.360
college and so, and that was something I'd struggled with

840
00:47:34.440 --> 00:47:37.519
since his day of the day he was born. And

841
00:47:37.559 --> 00:47:39.639
I struggled with with my daughter who's a senior now

842
00:47:39.639 --> 00:47:42.440
and my other daughter is a freshman. I just it's

843
00:47:42.440 --> 00:47:45.760
not that I know, I want them to be successful,

844
00:47:45.800 --> 00:47:47.760
I want them to have their own lives, I want

845
00:47:47.800 --> 00:47:50.519
them to do all those things. But I love them

846
00:47:50.599 --> 00:47:53.440
so much and I just want them with me. In

847
00:47:53.559 --> 00:47:56.400
Toy Story three, which I'll never watch again, Andy's mom

848
00:47:56.519 --> 00:47:59.599
says the line, and it's just I just always, I

849
00:47:59.639 --> 00:48:02.840
always want you to be with me. That's simple, and

850
00:48:03.159 --> 00:48:06.320
that's I thought a beautiful line. And so I feel

851
00:48:06.320 --> 00:48:09.719
like all of that emotion, all of that pain, all

852
00:48:09.760 --> 00:48:13.159
of that anxiety, I think comes out in veil. And

853
00:48:13.719 --> 00:48:17.159
that wasn't I mean, it was hard to it was

854
00:48:17.199 --> 00:48:20.320
hard to be that emotional. But then at the same time,

855
00:48:20.559 --> 00:48:22.679
once I kind of opened those floodgates, it came out

856
00:48:22.800 --> 00:48:25.440
very naturally because it obviously is a part of me.

857
00:48:25.920 --> 00:48:29.119
Yeah, I can understand that because I have friends who

858
00:48:29.159 --> 00:48:31.480
talk about their kids as though they can't wait for

859
00:48:31.519 --> 00:48:34.480
them to leave the house. You know, They're like, yeah,

860
00:48:34.480 --> 00:48:37.079
I don't get it either. They're like at eighteen. You know,

861
00:48:37.239 --> 00:48:40.239
you're out the door and all this stuff, and I'm like, why, Like,

862
00:48:41.039 --> 00:48:43.639
I like being at home with my family. I like

863
00:48:43.960 --> 00:48:46.199
hanging out and playing video games with my son. I

864
00:48:46.280 --> 00:48:50.559
like watching movies with my wife. This past, you know,

865
00:48:50.639 --> 00:48:53.159
eleven years that he's been in our life has been

866
00:48:53.360 --> 00:48:57.800
very enriching and growing and I wouldn't change it for

867
00:48:57.840 --> 00:49:00.239
the world. But truth is, he's got to grow up

868
00:49:00.239 --> 00:49:02.760
and he's got to leave at some point, probably, right.

869
00:49:03.360 --> 00:49:05.840
And yeah, I totally yeah, I get that a lot.

870
00:49:07.239 --> 00:49:08.960
I do too. I hear that, and I just, you know,

871
00:49:09.000 --> 00:49:10.360
I don't say much, but I'm like.

872
00:49:10.320 --> 00:49:12.239
Wow, Yeah, I just kind of laugh at their jokes,

873
00:49:12.280 --> 00:49:15.679
but I don't ever like say and agree with them.

874
00:49:16.000 --> 00:49:18.719
Yeah, I just I mean, they're just so special. They're

875
00:49:18.719 --> 00:49:22.559
a part of us, exactly. Yeah, there are hearts, so

876
00:49:22.960 --> 00:49:27.559
I just yeah, but I I totally feel you, my friend, totally. Yeah.

877
00:49:28.719 --> 00:49:33.159
And there's also some very real reactions that John experiences

878
00:49:33.199 --> 00:49:39.400
to particular particularly tragic turns that happen within the story.

879
00:49:39.800 --> 00:49:42.400
I mean, very dark things that I could relate to

880
00:49:42.559 --> 00:49:47.719
because I was thinking the exact same thing when when

881
00:49:47.800 --> 00:49:51.960
when John had a particularly rough thoughts, I'm not going

882
00:49:52.039 --> 00:49:53.239
to say what it is because I don't want to

883
00:49:53.239 --> 00:49:57.280
spoil anything. But he if he had the circ if

884
00:49:57.280 --> 00:50:00.599
he had the the availability, he would have, you know,

885
00:50:00.800 --> 00:50:04.280
jump ship. Just let's just say that, right. And I

886
00:50:04.320 --> 00:50:06.480
had that exact same thought, like if this was going

887
00:50:06.719 --> 00:50:10.440
on with me, I would a jump ship too, But

888
00:50:10.480 --> 00:50:12.960
of course he didn't have the means to do that, right.

889
00:50:13.639 --> 00:50:16.079
And this is where I was getting into the fiction

890
00:50:16.360 --> 00:50:21.599
versus reality. Yeah, when you're reading a book like this,

891
00:50:21.760 --> 00:50:25.519
it's unfair to the author, I think to say that

892
00:50:25.559 --> 00:50:29.400
this is what the author is like because I feel

893
00:50:29.400 --> 00:50:34.559
it too, right. But you see that in just talking

894
00:50:34.599 --> 00:50:36.639
here that you do kind of have those thoughts and

895
00:50:36.679 --> 00:50:38.880
feelings too. If something bad were to happen.

896
00:50:38.719 --> 00:50:43.360
Like that, Yeah, I mean, you know I would, I think,

897
00:50:43.639 --> 00:50:46.440
I guess. Yeah, that's the question. It's like if as

898
00:50:46.440 --> 00:50:48.840
long as you have one loved one, it seems like

899
00:50:48.880 --> 00:50:51.199
that would give you. And I'm not saying that other

900
00:50:51.199 --> 00:50:53.400
people should be your purpose in life. I think that

901
00:50:53.719 --> 00:50:55.559
there's other you know, there are other things that can

902
00:50:55.559 --> 00:50:58.559
give us a purpose. But I think for most people,

903
00:50:58.800 --> 00:51:00.840
the people in their lives are a big part of

904
00:51:00.880 --> 00:51:04.000
their purpose and their calling or what they perceive as

905
00:51:04.000 --> 00:51:06.280
they're calling, and and you know, if as long as

906
00:51:06.280 --> 00:51:08.519
you had one loved one, you could like at least

907
00:51:08.599 --> 00:51:11.639
pour yourself into that. And but what happens if they're

908
00:51:11.639 --> 00:51:15.599
all gone? And that's you know, that's to be honest,

909
00:51:15.639 --> 00:51:20.960
that's kind of where Leonora and Veil kind of intersect

910
00:51:22.119 --> 00:51:24.800
in the way that, you know, what, what does somebody

911
00:51:24.920 --> 00:51:28.679
do who's got nothing, seem to have nothing? What would

912
00:51:28.679 --> 00:51:31.880
you do? And I think that, Yeah, I mean, I

913
00:51:31.880 --> 00:51:33.920
think for most of us, you know, some of the

914
00:51:34.000 --> 00:51:38.000
darkest thoughts would probably flit through our minds. You know.

915
00:51:38.079 --> 00:51:40.840
I think that's that's kind of a human reaction. Not

916
00:51:40.960 --> 00:51:43.880
that it's the best or healthiest reaction, but I think

917
00:51:43.920 --> 00:51:46.679
that would at least occur to a lot of people

918
00:51:46.719 --> 00:51:48.599
who who have lost everything.

919
00:51:49.039 --> 00:51:52.519
That's that's my biggest fear of not just losing everything

920
00:51:52.679 --> 00:51:56.639
over a period of time, but losing everything all at once. Yeah,

921
00:51:56.679 --> 00:52:01.519
because that would be the most painful, emotionally torture torturous

922
00:52:01.559 --> 00:52:05.119
thing I think I could possibly go through. And I

923
00:52:05.119 --> 00:52:08.840
think you, with both these stories, you definitely captured that

924
00:52:09.079 --> 00:52:12.119
because it had me going, yeah, man, me too through

925
00:52:12.239 --> 00:52:12.880
the whole thing.

926
00:52:13.000 --> 00:52:15.519
You know, I appreciate it.

927
00:52:15.639 --> 00:52:23.119
Yeah, the character interactions I really enjoyed as well, because

928
00:52:23.360 --> 00:52:26.440
the way they talk to each other, Like it's not

929
00:52:26.599 --> 00:52:28.559
like the happiest family in the world, but they're not

930
00:52:28.639 --> 00:52:33.400
necessarily the worst family in the world either. They're not

931
00:52:33.480 --> 00:52:35.800
a bad family at all, but they have their you know,

932
00:52:36.119 --> 00:52:39.760
bickerings and whatnot. Like the story begins with the father

933
00:52:39.840 --> 00:52:42.840
and son having an argument. Yeah, and so I was

934
00:52:42.880 --> 00:52:44.960
wondering if you know, I know, I think it was

935
00:52:45.000 --> 00:52:48.440
Brian Keene who said this. I could be wrong, so

936
00:52:48.480 --> 00:52:51.360
don't quote me, but there is an author I remember

937
00:52:51.519 --> 00:52:54.559
hearing saying that they used to get in trouble for

938
00:52:55.000 --> 00:52:58.960
lifting real arguments or real conversations that they've had and

939
00:52:59.000 --> 00:53:02.719
putting them into their face. Are you Are you guilty

940
00:53:02.760 --> 00:53:03.360
of that at all?

941
00:53:05.320 --> 00:53:11.159
There are like little moments I think that inspire talk

942
00:53:11.480 --> 00:53:16.400
conversations in my story in my stories. Yeah, like moments

943
00:53:16.920 --> 00:53:20.320
and and kind of themes, like the actual wording, like

944
00:53:20.440 --> 00:53:23.159
I love the right dialogue, dude, Like I just love

945
00:53:23.159 --> 00:53:25.480
it so much. It's so fun, and I think it's

946
00:53:25.480 --> 00:53:29.400
such an opportunity and I really, you know, am you know,

947
00:53:29.480 --> 00:53:32.079
I'm whatever. I guess we're writers who are proud of

948
00:53:32.119 --> 00:53:36.440
our work. But I'm proud of the dialogue. I appreciate that.

949
00:53:37.559 --> 00:53:41.119
I do think some of the some of the things

950
00:53:41.159 --> 00:53:45.360
that have happened. Yeah, like you know that my son

951
00:53:45.400 --> 00:53:48.079
and I, like we've got a great relationship, but like

952
00:53:48.239 --> 00:53:52.079
in that opening scene, the sun is bristling at what

953
00:53:52.159 --> 00:53:56.199
he thinks is his dad's inability to relax and have fun.

954
00:53:57.280 --> 00:54:01.440
And you know, that's that's a it's a tough position

955
00:54:01.599 --> 00:54:04.239
to be the heavy. It's a tough position to say no.

956
00:54:05.039 --> 00:54:08.119
It's a tough position because sometimes you have to say no,

957
00:54:08.480 --> 00:54:11.679
and then you know, to the kid doesn't make any sense,

958
00:54:11.800 --> 00:54:14.840
but to the parent, it's like there's a raptical reason,

959
00:54:15.360 --> 00:54:18.559
but neither side. And I think that's what I read

960
00:54:18.559 --> 00:54:21.599
this a long time ago. Saulstein is this writing is

961
00:54:22.000 --> 00:54:24.639
famous editor, and he has a couple of books on writing.

962
00:54:24.679 --> 00:54:27.639
But one one article he wrote was like, give your

963
00:54:27.679 --> 00:54:31.320
characters different scripts. And I think that that just always

964
00:54:31.360 --> 00:54:33.960
resonated with me. It's like, you know you do we

965
00:54:34.079 --> 00:54:36.039
do like you and I in this conversation, we enter

966
00:54:36.079 --> 00:54:38.679
into it with a different script. You had your day,

967
00:54:38.760 --> 00:54:41.800
you have your reality, and I have mine and so

968
00:54:42.039 --> 00:54:45.039
and that's invariably, if you're with somebody long enough that's

969
00:54:45.079 --> 00:54:48.639
going to cause some static here or there. And you

970
00:54:48.639 --> 00:54:52.679
know the john Son Sam, the boy who's fifteen. He's

971
00:54:52.719 --> 00:54:55.960
not evil, he's a good kid. And John's not evil,

972
00:54:56.039 --> 00:55:00.239
but he's flawed too. And so when both of their flaw,

973
00:55:00.519 --> 00:55:04.239
when both of their stubbornness, you know, when when those

974
00:55:04.320 --> 00:55:09.039
things come into conflict, it's gonna be a problem. And so, yeah,

975
00:55:09.800 --> 00:55:12.719
we never had that exact conversation, but boy, we had.

976
00:55:13.320 --> 00:55:17.119
We had several like it, you know, that were adjacent

977
00:55:17.159 --> 00:55:18.760
to that conversation over the years.

978
00:55:19.360 --> 00:55:23.840
But even like the commerce conversations, like when John and

979
00:55:23.880 --> 00:55:26.400
his daughter are sitting around trying to figure out what

980
00:55:26.440 --> 00:55:28.480
to do next and they're watching horror movies. I could

981
00:55:28.519 --> 00:55:30.519
I could picture because you talk about it so much

982
00:55:30.559 --> 00:55:35.000
on online. Your daughter. You watch a lot of horror

983
00:55:35.039 --> 00:55:38.239
movies with her, and so I could just picture.

984
00:55:38.199 --> 00:55:41.800
That, you know, Yeah, yeah, I think yeah, I think so.

985
00:55:43.639 --> 00:55:48.360
She They're yelling at each other right now. This isn't great.

986
00:55:48.639 --> 00:55:55.920
It's great timing rights of life right there. Anyway, Hey,

987
00:55:56.000 --> 00:55:58.159
we're on a podcast, by the way, you know, just

988
00:55:58.199 --> 00:56:00.480
once you know that you're you know, we love you,

989
00:56:00.639 --> 00:56:02.519
but we can hear you, all right. I just don't

990
00:56:02.559 --> 00:56:08.639
want to be embarrassed later anyway. Yeah, so that's amazing. No,

991
00:56:08.800 --> 00:56:12.480
it's like, I totally for what we talked about my

992
00:56:12.599 --> 00:56:14.039
daughter's yelling at you tell just.

993
00:56:14.440 --> 00:56:16.280
You and you're Actually it was we were talking about

994
00:56:16.320 --> 00:56:18.159
your daughter. Are you watching movies with her?

995
00:56:18.960 --> 00:56:25.519
Okay? So yeah? In in Veil, Yeah, I Juliette is

996
00:56:25.559 --> 00:56:29.119
the daughter that I mean, you know, Peach, my youngest.

997
00:56:29.639 --> 00:56:31.880
She shows up a lot in some in some of

998
00:56:31.880 --> 00:56:33.880
my books, and and but this one I think had

999
00:56:33.920 --> 00:56:37.719
a lot of Juliette in it. In Veil the character

1000
00:56:37.800 --> 00:56:42.000
of Emma, the daughter of John, And yeah, it's like

1001
00:56:42.039 --> 00:56:45.440
the dynamic between those two was a lot like the

1002
00:56:45.519 --> 00:56:49.280
dynamic between me and Juliet And it's not like, you know,

1003
00:56:49.320 --> 00:56:53.400
no dynamic is perfect, but it has its own like,

1004
00:56:53.400 --> 00:56:56.639
like the relationship has its own personality and in its

1005
00:56:56.679 --> 00:57:00.159
own rhythms, in its own like reaction, the way you

1006
00:57:00.159 --> 00:57:02.800
react to each other, the way you riff off of

1007
00:57:02.840 --> 00:57:05.320
each other, the way you occasionally disagree with each other.

1008
00:57:06.119 --> 00:57:11.119
It felt very like true to what I have lived

1009
00:57:11.159 --> 00:57:14.679
with her, mostly in good ways, occasionally in bad, but

1010
00:57:14.760 --> 00:57:15.800
mostly in good.

1011
00:57:15.840 --> 00:57:19.119
Nice How are you able to do that? Because every

1012
00:57:19.119 --> 00:57:23.239
time I try to write about my real life, or

1013
00:57:23.280 --> 00:57:26.880
at least add elements into it. The story ultimately changes

1014
00:57:26.920 --> 00:57:29.639
into something completely different, and it's almost like I don't

1015
00:57:29.639 --> 00:57:32.159
want to deal with it, or I don't want to

1016
00:57:32.199 --> 00:57:34.639
do that in my mind, as how do you do that?

1017
00:57:35.039 --> 00:57:37.480
It works because I'm not trying to do it. It

1018
00:57:37.559 --> 00:57:41.400
works because I'm like, at the time, I'm not conscious

1019
00:57:41.480 --> 00:57:43.679
of doing it at the time, I'm not aware that

1020
00:57:43.760 --> 00:57:48.559
I am channeling my experience at the time. Bradberry always

1021
00:57:48.559 --> 00:57:52.119
said this. He said that don't think, just feel, just feel,

1022
00:57:52.519 --> 00:57:54.559
And that's what I do. Like, I'm not thinking at all.

1023
00:57:54.599 --> 00:57:56.559
I'm not thinking about my life. I'm not thinking about

1024
00:57:56.599 --> 00:57:58.719
my day. I'm nothing about my past or future. I'm

1025
00:57:58.760 --> 00:58:01.239
just feeling in the story. In this story, I'm feeling

1026
00:58:01.239 --> 00:58:05.360
what the characters are feeling, and then invariably, you know,

1027
00:58:05.840 --> 00:58:09.360
those parts of me are going to like filter through

1028
00:58:09.840 --> 00:58:12.639
on the page. So I think that if I did

1029
00:58:12.880 --> 00:58:16.159
think about Juliet as I wrote Emma, it would be

1030
00:58:16.400 --> 00:58:21.880
disastrous and would draw attention to itself. But I think

1031
00:58:21.960 --> 00:58:24.000
because I wasn't thinking, it just goes.

1032
00:58:24.280 --> 00:58:26.800
I think that's the problem is that sometimes I want

1033
00:58:26.840 --> 00:58:29.760
to write about like I want to add elements of

1034
00:58:29.800 --> 00:58:32.760
my family life in there or something else, right, And

1035
00:58:32.800 --> 00:58:35.199
it's because I'm thinking of that, that's what, and I

1036
00:58:35.320 --> 00:58:38.599
end up stopping and writing something else, or I start

1037
00:58:38.639 --> 00:58:41.559
over again and it's completely different from where I started.

1038
00:58:41.599 --> 00:58:44.480
So yeah, I get some totally.

1039
00:58:45.280 --> 00:58:46.920
I do want to talk about the end of Ail

1040
00:58:47.039 --> 00:58:48.800
without spoiling it. So this is going to be hard

1041
00:58:48.840 --> 00:58:51.280
to ask because when we get to the end of Ail,

1042
00:58:51.320 --> 00:58:54.000
it's that prog rock song that I was talking about

1043
00:58:54.519 --> 00:58:57.559
and completely different from where we started. So when we

1044
00:58:57.599 --> 00:59:02.559
go to the ending, it's very different. And I wanted

1045
00:59:02.599 --> 00:59:06.679
to talk about your imagination on this because it's very detailed,

1046
00:59:06.679 --> 00:59:08.960
like I could picture this place so vividly.

1047
00:59:09.239 --> 00:59:10.760
Oh that? Yeah?

1048
00:59:10.519 --> 00:59:14.719
Yeah, So what what what did you have to sit

1049
00:59:14.760 --> 00:59:16.599
down and think, Okay, what's this going to be like?

1050
00:59:17.119 --> 00:59:19.239
Or or did it just come naturally because I know

1051
00:59:19.280 --> 00:59:21.159
you're right by the seat of your pants, So did

1052
00:59:21.199 --> 00:59:23.280
that just come to you as you wrote, or did

1053
00:59:23.320 --> 00:59:25.719
you have to sit down and say, Okay, there's going

1054
00:59:25.760 --> 00:59:27.239
to be this and there's going to be that, and

1055
00:59:27.639 --> 00:59:31.239
use these pod things and all these other things.

1056
00:59:31.800 --> 00:59:35.119
Yeah, So this book Veil, and then this other book

1057
00:59:35.159 --> 00:59:37.920
I'm editing. It's done, but I'm editing it called The

1058
00:59:37.960 --> 00:59:42.880
Stars Have Love the Skies. They are more research intensive

1059
00:59:42.920 --> 00:59:46.119
than anything I've done before because they're both kind of like,

1060
00:59:46.320 --> 00:59:49.039
Especially Veil is like it's definitely sci fi horror, at

1061
00:59:49.119 --> 00:59:53.320
least to me. And then with the Stars of Love

1062
00:59:53.360 --> 00:59:58.199
the Skies, it's got science in it, but it's a

1063
00:59:58.239 --> 01:00:02.199
little more a little more toward horror. I'd say Veil

1064
01:00:02.400 --> 01:00:07.880
is closer to the center in those two. But yeah,

1065
01:00:07.920 --> 01:00:10.639
So in both cases, what I did was I did

1066
01:00:10.679 --> 01:00:14.760
a lot of research before and as I wrote them,

1067
01:00:15.559 --> 01:00:19.039
and I find for me one of the best ways

1068
01:00:19.079 --> 01:00:23.199
to research something is to talk to really smart people

1069
01:00:23.360 --> 01:00:28.920
who know more than I do about and so I

1070
01:00:29.039 --> 01:00:32.039
for Veil, for that part of Vale that you're alluding to,

1071
01:00:32.079 --> 01:00:36.920
the last act of Veil, I talked to this science

1072
01:00:37.000 --> 01:00:41.679
teacher and she actually has been my expert for both

1073
01:00:41.679 --> 01:00:43.599
of those books, at least one of my experts for

1074
01:00:43.639 --> 01:00:46.159
both of those books. Her name is Andy, and she's

1075
01:00:46.280 --> 01:00:52.760
she teaches with me, really really intelligent woman. And so

1076
01:00:53.039 --> 01:00:57.360
we speculated on like what that would look like, what

1077
01:00:57.440 --> 01:01:01.480
that would you know, what I would have to you know,

1078
01:01:01.960 --> 01:01:04.599
what I would need to include, what we should think

1079
01:01:04.639 --> 01:01:07.960
about the you know, the laws of physics and all

1080
01:01:08.000 --> 01:01:11.840
this stuff. And then part of that was like part

1081
01:01:11.880 --> 01:01:16.960
of that sprang naturally from the creatures themselves, because you

1082
01:01:17.000 --> 01:01:20.239
know they you know, so so we knew that they

1083
01:01:20.559 --> 01:01:24.440
were from this place that I would be describing. So

1084
01:01:24.519 --> 01:01:28.320
that was kind of like our way in. We would imagine, okay,

1085
01:01:28.400 --> 01:01:30.800
so what would this place have to be like for

1086
01:01:30.880 --> 01:01:33.719
them to inhabit it, and then we kind of grew

1087
01:01:33.800 --> 01:01:36.800
it from there, and you know, parts of it would

1088
01:01:36.840 --> 01:01:39.599
just sheer imagination. Like I A lot of it is

1089
01:01:39.679 --> 01:01:44.480
like my bringing something, hopefully to an expert and saying

1090
01:01:44.559 --> 01:01:47.679
can I do this? I either say yes or no,

1091
01:01:48.239 --> 01:01:51.119
or maybe if we do this, if you altered in

1092
01:01:51.159 --> 01:01:53.519
this way, then it can work. And so there's a

1093
01:01:53.519 --> 01:01:55.199
lot of that. There's a lot of like I was

1094
01:01:55.280 --> 01:01:57.840
envisioning something and I would bring it to her and

1095
01:01:57.920 --> 01:02:01.199
she'd be like, wells quite the way it would work,

1096
01:02:01.239 --> 01:02:03.360
and I'd be like bang, and I'd have to scrap it.

1097
01:02:04.400 --> 01:02:06.440
But in other cases it was like, yeah, that's actually

1098
01:02:06.440 --> 01:02:08.679
pretty realistic, and then I was happy. And then another

1099
01:02:08.719 --> 01:02:11.480
case it was it was something where okay, we might

1100
01:02:11.519 --> 01:02:13.159
be able to do this, but you've got to like

1101
01:02:13.920 --> 01:02:15.760
the here's the problem with it. Here's what you've got

1102
01:02:15.800 --> 01:02:18.239
to address, and then I you know, we would kind

1103
01:02:18.239 --> 01:02:21.079
of stress test it and together come up with a

1104
01:02:21.079 --> 01:02:23.280
way to make something more plausible.

1105
01:02:23.840 --> 01:02:26.960
Awesome. Yeah, so I'll make a note here make friends

1106
01:02:27.000 --> 01:02:28.639
with science teacher.

1107
01:02:30.440 --> 01:02:31.920
Such good reasons for sure.

1108
01:02:33.800 --> 01:02:36.920
Actually I know some science teachers, so I'm in good

1109
01:02:36.960 --> 01:02:37.480
ground here.

1110
01:02:37.760 --> 01:02:38.360
Good good.

1111
01:02:38.920 --> 01:02:41.119
So what do you hope readers will take away the

1112
01:02:41.159 --> 01:02:43.719
most from reading veil?

1113
01:02:44.400 --> 01:02:50.199
I hope they I guess two things. Well, okay, so

1114
01:02:50.400 --> 01:02:53.679
for me, a book or a movie or a show

1115
01:02:53.719 --> 01:02:59.119
that succeeds on these three levels those If this show

1116
01:02:59.320 --> 01:03:01.639
or book and can do all three of those things,

1117
01:03:01.679 --> 01:03:07.039
that's really succeeded. I think the gateway through which the

1118
01:03:07.079 --> 01:03:11.719
others happen is that it's entertaining, and for me, that

1119
01:03:11.760 --> 01:03:15.400
means cinematic. Like I know that not every story has

1120
01:03:15.440 --> 01:03:17.920
to be cinematic, but that's the style I like. I

1121
01:03:18.039 --> 01:03:20.800
like it when people can imagine it as a movie

1122
01:03:21.039 --> 01:03:24.079
or a show. I want it to be visual. I

1123
01:03:24.119 --> 01:03:27.159
want to be an experience where the reader can inhabit

1124
01:03:27.239 --> 01:03:29.599
that world. So the first thing is I want them

1125
01:03:29.639 --> 01:03:34.039
to enjoy it in a cinematic way. That's one because

1126
01:03:34.239 --> 01:03:36.840
I do I feel like this is I feel like

1127
01:03:36.880 --> 01:03:40.840
this is something that's kind of made for the screen. Secondly,

1128
01:03:41.119 --> 01:03:44.800
I want them to definitely feel something because it is

1129
01:03:44.840 --> 01:03:49.119
a very emotional story and all readers are different. Some

1130
01:03:49.159 --> 01:03:53.639
readers want to be thrilled, some readers want to be scared,

1131
01:03:53.760 --> 01:03:56.880
some readers want to laugh, some readers want to be titillated, whatever.

1132
01:03:57.679 --> 01:04:01.679
But I think people go to book without Maybe they

1133
01:04:01.679 --> 01:04:04.119
don't realize it, but I think they want to be touched.

1134
01:04:04.159 --> 01:04:07.039
I think they want to feel something, at least relate

1135
01:04:07.119 --> 01:04:09.559
to something. So I want people to feel. And then

1136
01:04:09.559 --> 01:04:12.639
the last thing is I want them to and this

1137
01:04:12.679 --> 01:04:15.280
is the third most important, but if this can be

1138
01:04:15.599 --> 01:04:17.920
if this box can be checked, that's just a little

1139
01:04:17.960 --> 01:04:21.159
bit of icing on the cake. I want them to

1140
01:04:21.199 --> 01:04:24.199
think a little bit. And that's and that is about

1141
01:04:24.239 --> 01:04:28.159
the science, partially because my wife read it. She doesn't

1142
01:04:28.199 --> 01:04:29.800
usually read my work, she hasn't read one of my

1143
01:04:29.840 --> 01:04:33.519
books in about a decade, but she kept talking about that.

1144
01:04:33.599 --> 01:04:35.679
She was like, this is fascinating. She was like, this

1145
01:04:35.760 --> 01:04:39.440
is I find myself wondering about, you know, what these

1146
01:04:39.480 --> 01:04:42.679
creatures would be like, what we would do. So I

1147
01:04:42.719 --> 01:04:46.480
was really gratified at that, but then also when you think,

1148
01:04:46.599 --> 01:04:51.079
that also means thinking about okay, so is this how

1149
01:04:51.159 --> 01:04:55.400
society would react? Is this how a person would react

1150
01:04:55.519 --> 01:04:59.880
if his loved ones were taken? Right? So, thinking about

1151
01:05:00.159 --> 01:05:02.880
the scenarios and the story, I think that if you

1152
01:05:02.920 --> 01:05:06.719
can entertain, feel, and think in a book, I think

1153
01:05:06.719 --> 01:05:10.159
that you've really experienced something. So I hope readers do

1154
01:05:10.239 --> 01:05:10.920
all three of those.

1155
01:05:11.800 --> 01:05:13.840
Well, I can tell you that it did those for me.

1156
01:05:14.400 --> 01:05:17.480
Thank you that. I mean, it was so much fun

1157
01:05:17.519 --> 01:05:21.280
to read, but it was also heartbreaking in points, and

1158
01:05:21.400 --> 01:05:24.320
so it touched me and also made me think, like,

1159
01:05:25.239 --> 01:05:28.639
I'm kind of on board with your wife, you know,

1160
01:05:28.719 --> 01:05:31.079
with the whole questioning what's going on? You know, what

1161
01:05:31.079 --> 01:05:33.679
would these things look like? And all that. It just

1162
01:05:33.800 --> 01:05:36.920
kept me going and it was an absolute roller coaster ride.

1163
01:05:37.119 --> 01:05:39.719
Absolutely loved it. And you know, it's funny that you

1164
01:05:39.800 --> 01:05:41.840
mentioned that it would make a great movie. I think

1165
01:05:41.880 --> 01:05:44.119
it would too. I was going to ask you a

1166
01:05:44.199 --> 01:05:47.360
question about what book of yours do you think would

1167
01:05:47.400 --> 01:05:50.119
make a great film, But I think I think Vail

1168
01:05:50.320 --> 01:05:52.920
honestly needs to be a film or at least a

1169
01:05:52.960 --> 01:05:53.840
limited series.

1170
01:05:54.320 --> 01:05:56.519
Yeah, I agree, and I thank you for that, but

1171
01:05:56.639 --> 01:06:00.039
I agree, I think it would be so good. I

1172
01:06:00.039 --> 01:06:01.800
think it would be so good, and I think you would.

1173
01:06:02.199 --> 01:06:05.719
I really think that people would. Yeah, I think people

1174
01:06:05.719 --> 01:06:09.559
would relate. I think people would find it pulse pounding

1175
01:06:09.559 --> 01:06:14.559
and interesting and yeah, harrowing. So I'm really happy to

1176
01:06:14.559 --> 01:06:16.199
hear you say that, because I do feel like this

1177
01:06:16.239 --> 01:06:17.800
would be wonderful on screen.

1178
01:06:18.159 --> 01:06:22.840
Absolutely. Before we go, I just want to talk briefly

1179
01:06:22.920 --> 01:06:26.280
about some of your other works. Yeah, sure, nothing, nothing

1180
01:06:26.320 --> 01:06:29.960
too deep. But you've written a couple of shorter stories

1181
01:06:30.000 --> 01:06:34.360
or shorter stories like series, not stories, but shorter series

1182
01:06:34.360 --> 01:06:38.079
like duologies. Yeah, like Children Know the Dark and The Raven.

1183
01:06:38.239 --> 01:06:42.079
I've read the Children of the Dark series, including Savages,

1184
01:06:42.639 --> 01:06:45.719
Savage Species, Yes, Savage Species, right, Yeah, that was the

1185
01:06:45.760 --> 01:06:48.719
last one I read, and man, that's just so vicious.

1186
01:06:49.519 --> 01:06:52.599
Those books are all so vicious. But I haven't read

1187
01:06:52.599 --> 01:06:55.360
The Raven yet. But I was wondering if you go

1188
01:06:55.440 --> 01:06:57.639
into books to you like, because the way they end,

1189
01:06:57.920 --> 01:06:59.880
like Children Know the Dark, the way that first one

1190
01:06:59.880 --> 01:07:02.800
is it could totally went somewhere else, right, and it did.

1191
01:07:03.679 --> 01:07:05.239
I don't know about The Raven, But do you go

1192
01:07:05.280 --> 01:07:07.400
into writing a book thinking I think I'm going to

1193
01:07:07.440 --> 01:07:10.840
write a series or is it more like, there needs

1194
01:07:10.880 --> 01:07:12.000
to be more when you're done.

1195
01:07:12.840 --> 01:07:16.800
Yeah, depends on the situation. I've done both. The Raven

1196
01:07:17.000 --> 01:07:19.639
was one of the few where I actually was thinking

1197
01:07:19.760 --> 01:07:21.760
series when I went into it, and it's one i'd

1198
01:07:21.800 --> 01:07:25.960
like to continue, like I'm very fond of those two books.

1199
01:07:26.280 --> 01:07:30.519
And then Children of the Dark. I did not think

1200
01:07:30.559 --> 01:07:33.880
of that as a series at all when I first started,

1201
01:07:34.079 --> 01:07:36.679
and at the ending, like the Dano mod, the resolution

1202
01:07:36.760 --> 01:07:39.400
scene kind of really surprised me. I didn't think it

1203
01:07:39.440 --> 01:07:42.199
was going to end like that, but then that naturally

1204
01:07:42.280 --> 01:07:44.440
led readers to ask if there was going to be more,

1205
01:07:44.480 --> 01:07:47.599
And I think the same thing goes for Vail Veil.

1206
01:07:47.719 --> 01:07:50.079
I didn't think of as a series at all, but

1207
01:07:50.199 --> 01:07:53.440
I think that when it got to the end, I began, like,

1208
01:07:53.519 --> 01:07:56.719
as I was writing the resolution scene, I'm like, oh wow, Wow,

1209
01:07:56.840 --> 01:08:01.480
this would be interesting to continue. So yeah, So some

1210
01:08:01.880 --> 01:08:05.280
usually I don't set out for that, but yeah, sometimes

1211
01:08:05.360 --> 01:08:06.480
it just happens organically.

1212
01:08:06.559 --> 01:08:10.760
So are you alluding maybe to the possibility of there

1213
01:08:10.800 --> 01:08:11.920
being another Veil book.

1214
01:08:12.360 --> 01:08:14.199
I would love for there to be. We will see.

1215
01:08:14.239 --> 01:08:16.199
Let's see how let's see what people think of it,

1216
01:08:16.319 --> 01:08:19.680
and let's see how pre sales have been very robust.

1217
01:08:19.840 --> 01:08:23.800
So let's hope that that continues into you know, into

1218
01:08:23.960 --> 01:08:27.199
release day and beyond. Let's hope people snatch it up

1219
01:08:27.279 --> 01:08:31.199
and then tell those things about it, because I would

1220
01:08:31.279 --> 01:08:33.920
love to write more in that universe. I just think

1221
01:08:33.960 --> 01:08:36.800
it's like, I mean, I'm not I'm not li likening

1222
01:08:36.800 --> 01:08:38.720
myself to Stephen King. I'm not liking this book to

1223
01:08:38.760 --> 01:08:41.560
the stand because it's a very different book, very different

1224
01:08:41.600 --> 01:08:44.880
story than the stand. Right, that's just like huge canvas,

1225
01:08:44.920 --> 01:08:48.079
huge palette. But in the same way, like it reminds

1226
01:08:48.159 --> 01:08:50.760
me this story, Veil reminds me a little bit of

1227
01:08:50.840 --> 01:08:56.159
a quiet place in that it's like one family, one situation,

1228
01:08:56.680 --> 01:08:59.199
this is their tail. That's kind of what Veil is.

1229
01:08:59.279 --> 01:09:03.439
But then you've seen that universe expand a little bit

1230
01:09:03.920 --> 01:09:06.920
a lot with Day One, where you just go to

1231
01:09:06.960 --> 01:09:10.079
a completely different place, completely different cants of characters. I

1232
01:09:10.119 --> 01:09:12.760
think Veil could be the same way. Like I would

1233
01:09:12.840 --> 01:09:16.439
love love to follow this story with these with whatever

1234
01:09:16.520 --> 01:09:19.439
characters survive and Veil I like to follow. But then

1235
01:09:19.600 --> 01:09:22.039
I think going elsewhere too would be pretty fascinating.

1236
01:09:22.439 --> 01:09:27.399
So assuming let's just say down the road, you have

1237
01:09:27.439 --> 01:09:30.880
the opportunity to it's sold well and people are like, yeah,

1238
01:09:30.960 --> 01:09:33.199
let's do this. Yeah, and so you're on board with

1239
01:09:33.279 --> 01:09:36.039
writing a sequel, do you have any ideas at the

1240
01:09:36.079 --> 01:09:38.199
moment of where it could go. You don't have to

1241
01:09:38.199 --> 01:09:40.279
go into it, but ye are they there? Yeah?

1242
01:09:40.359 --> 01:09:44.359
I do, absolutely, And it's weird, like one direction is

1243
01:09:45.000 --> 01:09:47.840
staying with the main characters that we have that are

1244
01:09:47.920 --> 01:09:50.159
left at the end of Veil, and the other is

1245
01:09:51.520 --> 01:09:56.279
starting somewhere completely differently, completely different, and then maybe by

1246
01:09:56.319 --> 01:10:01.359
the end linking. Yeah, it would be. I think either

1247
01:10:01.359 --> 01:10:04.439
way it would be a really fun approach. Yeah.

1248
01:10:04.680 --> 01:10:09.600
Now, this this gives a good example of how awful

1249
01:10:09.680 --> 01:10:12.840
my brain can be. And well, it can work sometimes,

1250
01:10:13.199 --> 01:10:15.479
But I did. I did an episode here on the

1251
01:10:15.479 --> 01:10:20.920
Weird Reads podcast and we covered Gothic fiction with one

1252
01:10:20.960 --> 01:10:25.159
of my friends. Yeah, and I read The Dismembered for

1253
01:10:25.279 --> 01:10:32.159
that episode specifically. Nice. But yeah, I completely forgot to

1254
01:10:32.279 --> 01:10:36.359
mention it's in the entire episode. I forgot to write

1255
01:10:36.359 --> 01:10:38.560
it down in my notes. And it's not because it's

1256
01:10:38.600 --> 01:10:41.039
it's not because it's a bad book. I absolutely loved it,

1257
01:10:41.119 --> 01:10:44.520
but it just I don't know what happened. Uh. Oh,

1258
01:10:44.600 --> 01:10:46.760
I was so mad at myself. I was editing it

1259
01:10:46.800 --> 01:10:49.680
and I'm like, where's the Dismembered? And then it was like,

1260
01:10:49.760 --> 01:10:52.079
oh god, I didn't even mention it. Oh my god,

1261
01:10:52.119 --> 01:10:52.720
what the hell?

1262
01:10:53.039 --> 01:10:55.319
And that is okay when you've read enough books, when

1263
01:10:55.399 --> 01:10:57.920
you know that we do forget. I was asked to

1264
01:10:57.960 --> 01:11:01.279
write this short thing of I have great sci fi

1265
01:11:01.399 --> 01:11:04.039
horror books, and I saw it in you know, in

1266
01:11:04.079 --> 01:11:06.880
print the other day, and the moment I saw it,

1267
01:11:06.920 --> 01:11:10.279
of course, I'm thinking, oh, why didn't you mention this

1268
01:11:10.319 --> 01:11:12.560
one or this one or this writer. And I was

1269
01:11:12.600 --> 01:11:16.800
immediately frustrated with myself for not including those. So I

1270
01:11:16.800 --> 01:11:18.600
can totally totally, you know.

1271
01:11:19.159 --> 01:11:23.239
I worry about my brain something like, you know, as again,

1272
01:11:23.439 --> 01:11:25.359
I was talking to Chris Paneteer and we were talking

1273
01:11:25.359 --> 01:11:28.880
about Alzheimer's and dementia, and you know, when things like

1274
01:11:28.920 --> 01:11:31.279
that happen, you start to like, oh, no, like what's

1275
01:11:31.319 --> 01:11:34.039
going on here. Let's hope it's not going in that direction.

1276
01:11:34.840 --> 01:11:37.479
But totally relate to that.

1277
01:11:37.720 --> 01:11:39.800
But I don't know what happened. But I wanted to

1278
01:11:39.880 --> 01:11:42.039
talk about Dismember just a little bit because a lot

1279
01:11:42.039 --> 01:11:44.319
of people were talking about that book when it came out.

1280
01:11:45.279 --> 01:11:47.039
It was a favorite, and I didn't read it until

1281
01:11:47.079 --> 01:11:50.159
this year, Like I said for that podcast episode, yeah,

1282
01:11:50.159 --> 01:11:53.079
and oh my god, like you you have all the

1283
01:11:53.119 --> 01:11:55.640
elements there of like a gothic classic, but then you

1284
01:11:55.680 --> 01:12:01.319
add in this this savagery.

1285
01:12:01.600 --> 01:12:06.960
It's a savage book. Oh my goodness. Yes, yeah, I

1286
01:12:07.000 --> 01:12:07.439
loved it.

1287
01:12:07.439 --> 01:12:08.359
It was so much fun.

1288
01:12:08.600 --> 01:12:12.520
It goes look not yeah, of all, you know, I

1289
01:12:12.560 --> 01:12:15.159
think that you're probably like this and the stuff that

1290
01:12:15.199 --> 01:12:17.920
you write. But I think when we write something, we

1291
01:12:18.000 --> 01:12:20.039
love it, we're fond of it, we're proud of it.

1292
01:12:20.439 --> 01:12:23.000
But I think we have scenes within a work that

1293
01:12:23.039 --> 01:12:25.960
we're extra proud of. And there's a scene in The

1294
01:12:26.039 --> 01:12:29.439
Dismembered and you'll probably remember this, but it's a dinner

1295
01:12:29.479 --> 01:12:32.880
table scene where it's where everything changes.

1296
01:12:33.079 --> 01:12:34.840
Yeah, that's the scene I was thinking.

1297
01:12:35.600 --> 01:12:39.800
I'm so proud of with that story. It's very self

1298
01:12:39.880 --> 01:12:42.880
congratulatory or whatever, but you know, like it's okay to

1299
01:12:42.920 --> 01:12:46.680
be proud of your work. Absolutely there in that scene,

1300
01:12:46.760 --> 01:12:50.680
you've got so many talking parts, like it's like a play.

1301
01:12:50.800 --> 01:12:55.199
You've got like ten or twelve talking parts, and you've

1302
01:12:55.239 --> 01:12:58.640
got all these dynamic dynamics at work, and it's like

1303
01:12:58.760 --> 01:13:02.800
all these plates are spin and they're all like evolving

1304
01:13:03.239 --> 01:13:07.960
through this dinner table scene, and all of these mysteries

1305
01:13:07.960 --> 01:13:12.119
are starting to reveal themselves, and these revelations and epiphanies

1306
01:13:12.159 --> 01:13:16.800
are happening, and and all these characters have different scripts

1307
01:13:16.960 --> 01:13:20.760
and they're starting to realize things, and there's like the

1308
01:13:20.880 --> 01:13:25.640
global tension of like the main thing that's about to happen,

1309
01:13:26.439 --> 01:13:30.000
and then the other pieces kind of feed into that

1310
01:13:30.239 --> 01:13:34.399
and other like mysteries connect to it. Yeah, it's really

1311
01:13:34.439 --> 01:13:37.319
proud of that scene, and it's so that's brutal.

1312
01:13:37.840 --> 01:13:40.880
I remember that scene vividly because I was just like,

1313
01:13:41.119 --> 01:13:43.239
I'm like, oh, this is like quite the gothic little

1314
01:13:43.279 --> 01:13:46.800
story Jonathan gitting on here and then suddenly boom and

1315
01:13:46.840 --> 01:13:49.760
it doesn't let up from there, right, And but that

1316
01:13:50.119 --> 01:13:53.079
initial scene was just like it made me open up

1317
01:13:53.119 --> 01:13:55.520
my eyes right like really wide and go, oh my gosh.

1318
01:13:56.920 --> 01:14:01.399
I was not it's a total term into just like

1319
01:14:01.520 --> 01:14:06.359
you said, into just blood in this blood death Man.

1320
01:14:06.439 --> 01:14:10.000
And it gets so dark from that point one, because

1321
01:14:10.000 --> 01:14:12.600
we've gotten the hints of darkness and we've got we've

1322
01:14:12.600 --> 01:14:16.119
had rumors and whispers, but then when we actually see

1323
01:14:16.560 --> 01:14:18.800
what this is going to be and where it goes,

1324
01:14:18.880 --> 01:14:22.960
it's like, oh dang, really going there. But yeah, that

1325
01:14:23.000 --> 01:14:24.319
book definitely goes there.

1326
01:14:24.880 --> 01:14:28.439
Insane. It's well, I haven't read a clunker from you yet,

1327
01:14:28.520 --> 01:14:31.680
but it's one of my favorites along with Veil Veil

1328
01:14:32.159 --> 01:14:34.319
Knocked my socks off. I think it's my favorite of

1329
01:14:34.359 --> 01:14:35.039
yours right now.

1330
01:14:36.319 --> 01:14:36.680
Thank you.

1331
01:14:37.119 --> 01:14:40.319
But uh, we we've kind of brushed upon this topic

1332
01:14:40.399 --> 01:14:41.720
here and there, and I want to I want to

1333
01:14:41.760 --> 01:14:46.039
bring it up before before we go, because I think

1334
01:14:46.079 --> 01:14:49.479
it's important. You see on social media a lot of

1335
01:14:49.479 --> 01:14:53.439
people disparaging their own work when they write something or go,

1336
01:14:53.560 --> 01:14:56.279
I hate everything I write, And you know what I've

1337
01:14:56.600 --> 01:14:59.680
come from that. I've been there. I understand what it's like.

1338
01:14:59.720 --> 01:15:02.199
But I think I'm in a place now where I'm

1339
01:15:02.319 --> 01:15:05.199
enjoying the things I write because I'm having fun doing it. Again,

1340
01:15:06.600 --> 01:15:09.640
how important is it, I think? I mean, you have

1341
01:15:09.680 --> 01:15:11.279
to have a critical eye too, you have to be

1342
01:15:11.279 --> 01:15:13.479
able to see what's not good and take it out

1343
01:15:13.600 --> 01:15:16.600
or change it or whatever. But how important is it

1344
01:15:17.039 --> 01:15:18.399
to enjoy what you write?

1345
01:15:19.600 --> 01:15:23.039
Yeah? Yeah, I used to have trouble with that. I

1346
01:15:23.159 --> 01:15:26.319
used to not do that. I would basically not look

1347
01:15:26.319 --> 01:15:29.960
at my stories again, I wouldn't read them. I would

1348
01:15:30.000 --> 01:15:33.279
because I'd be afraid i'd fund something I didn't like. Yeah,

1349
01:15:33.520 --> 01:15:35.960
I think that that's I mean that that self awareness,

1350
01:15:35.960 --> 01:15:38.760
though to a degree, is healthy, I think because I

1351
01:15:38.800 --> 01:15:42.159
think that I think the danger zone is when when

1352
01:15:42.159 --> 01:15:45.039
a writer thinks that everything that he writes is perfect.

1353
01:15:45.760 --> 01:15:45.920
Yeah.

1354
01:15:46.239 --> 01:15:47.960
I think that if we ever get to that point,

1355
01:15:48.039 --> 01:15:53.279
that's when we probably gotta check ourselves. Yeah, but I

1356
01:15:53.319 --> 01:15:56.760
think there is a happy place in between there where

1357
01:15:57.800 --> 01:16:01.199
I think we can, you know, enjoy what we've done

1358
01:16:01.319 --> 01:16:04.119
and be proud of what we've done. I think that's

1359
01:16:04.159 --> 01:16:07.520
a healthy place to be as long as there's enough,

1360
01:16:08.239 --> 01:16:13.039
like you're talking about, enough scrutiny, especially obviously in the

1361
01:16:13.119 --> 01:16:16.000
editing process. I think that if we can be as

1362
01:16:16.039 --> 01:16:19.079
brutal as possible, is just ruthless as possible in the

1363
01:16:19.199 --> 01:16:22.479
editing process, then that allows us to kind of like

1364
01:16:22.640 --> 01:16:26.199
just relax and enjoy what we've done later on. Then

1365
01:16:26.239 --> 01:16:28.439
I think it's a nice place to be. And so, yeah,

1366
01:16:28.479 --> 01:16:30.800
I think that if you can get to the other

1367
01:16:30.920 --> 01:16:33.199
side of that where you can be a ruthless editor

1368
01:16:33.359 --> 01:16:36.439
but then also somebody who enjoys what you've done, I

1369
01:16:36.439 --> 01:16:38.640
think that's a good place to be. I'd say that's

1370
01:16:38.720 --> 01:16:42.199
kind of where I am. And yeah, so I can

1371
01:16:42.239 --> 01:16:45.800
look at my work now and I look at my early, early,

1372
01:16:45.880 --> 01:16:48.479
early work, and there's some things I would I'm sure

1373
01:16:48.520 --> 01:16:52.560
i'd change. But in general, now when I get when

1374
01:16:52.600 --> 01:16:56.640
something gets published, I am far more happy with it

1375
01:16:56.720 --> 01:16:58.760
than i'm not. And I think that's a good place.

1376
01:16:58.560 --> 01:17:03.000
To be awesome. I agree with that. I think it's

1377
01:17:03.000 --> 01:17:06.640
important to be self critical, but not hate. Like hate

1378
01:17:06.680 --> 01:17:08.760
is a strong word, and I've, like I said, I've

1379
01:17:08.800 --> 01:17:13.359
been there too, and it can be. It can completely

1380
01:17:14.000 --> 01:17:16.000
destroy the whole thing that you're trying to do. It

1381
01:17:16.039 --> 01:17:17.479
doesn't make writing fun at all.

1382
01:17:17.920 --> 01:17:20.680
Yeah, it can, And I think it's at a cool moment.

1383
01:17:20.680 --> 01:17:25.239
There was this quintessential moment. Peach, my youngest, came downstairs

1384
01:17:25.279 --> 01:17:27.720
the other day and she's reading Children of the Dark

1385
01:17:27.840 --> 01:17:31.039
right now, of course, the main character of Children of

1386
01:17:31.079 --> 01:17:32.720
the Dark, and she's like, can I read part of

1387
01:17:32.720 --> 01:17:35.840
this to you? I was like, yeah, sure, and so

1388
01:17:35.880 --> 01:17:38.279
she read it and I realized it was an earlier

1389
01:17:38.399 --> 01:17:41.640
version of it, you know, because it got published in

1390
01:17:41.640 --> 01:17:46.039
twenty sixteen, and then it was reissued in twenty twenty three. Yeah,

1391
01:17:46.159 --> 01:17:49.039
December of twenty twenty three, not that long ago, and

1392
01:17:50.199 --> 01:17:53.520
it was fun because as she was reading it, I

1393
01:17:53.600 --> 01:17:57.359
was both very proud of what I had written because

1394
01:17:57.399 --> 01:17:59.600
I was like smiling and laughing at these lines of

1395
01:17:59.640 --> 01:18:03.319
that line, and she was smiling or laughing. But then

1396
01:18:03.319 --> 01:18:05.119
there are also a couple of things that I'd changed

1397
01:18:05.119 --> 01:18:07.600
that I was proud that i'd changed. It was kind

1398
01:18:07.600 --> 01:18:09.960
of a weird moment for me, but a good moment

1399
01:18:10.000 --> 01:18:12.159
because I'm like, yeah, I'm proud of what I wrote

1400
01:18:12.199 --> 01:18:14.560
in twenty sixteen, but I've also gotten better since then.

1401
01:18:15.119 --> 01:18:19.560
So that's that place is a cool place to find yourself.

1402
01:18:20.119 --> 01:18:23.039
Is it weird for you having like when your kids

1403
01:18:23.039 --> 01:18:23.960
are reading your books.

1404
01:18:25.520 --> 01:18:28.159
It was a little surreal. Yeah, it was surreal, But

1405
01:18:28.279 --> 01:18:32.720
then it was also mostly positive. And it was so

1406
01:18:33.039 --> 01:18:36.680
fun to see her react to it. Yeah, for her,

1407
01:18:36.760 --> 01:18:40.079
because you know, if it sucks, she's not going to

1408
01:18:40.159 --> 01:18:44.520
want to read it. And she was clearly enjoying herself,

1409
01:18:44.560 --> 01:18:48.760
and she was sincerely laughing at certain parts and a

1410
01:18:48.760 --> 01:18:51.119
little embarrassed at other parts because there were a lot

1411
01:18:51.119 --> 01:18:54.479
of profanities in there that I had because that's how

1412
01:18:54.520 --> 01:18:57.279
Will and Chris and Barley talk. You know, They've they've

1413
01:18:57.319 --> 01:19:00.159
got some profanity. Is is fifteen year olds off and

1414
01:19:00.279 --> 01:19:03.479
have right when their parents aren't around. So that was

1415
01:19:03.840 --> 01:19:06.000
it was. It was a lot of fun. Like I

1416
01:19:06.119 --> 01:19:09.039
basically just sat there. It's funny. I was on the couch.

1417
01:19:09.079 --> 01:19:10.880
She was at the couch across from me, and she

1418
01:19:10.960 --> 01:19:14.720
was reading it, and then on my couch, I was listening,

1419
01:19:14.760 --> 01:19:16.760
and I started to lean back, and then eventually I

1420
01:19:16.880 --> 01:19:19.640
just kind of like I was lying all the way

1421
01:19:19.680 --> 01:19:22.520
back and just kind of enjoying myself, and I kicked

1422
01:19:22.560 --> 01:19:24.880
my feet up, and it was kind of a fun moment.

1423
01:19:24.920 --> 01:19:26.800
It was a cool moment, very cool.

1424
01:19:28.479 --> 01:19:30.680
I kind of worry about when my son is going

1425
01:19:30.760 --> 01:19:32.319
to be curious about reading my stuff.

1426
01:19:32.560 --> 01:19:35.319
Yeah a point, man, There'll be a point when that

1427
01:19:35.399 --> 01:19:38.199
happens real. But I bet it'll be cool.

1428
01:19:38.840 --> 01:19:39.960
Yeah, I'm sure it will.

1429
01:19:41.199 --> 01:19:41.479
Now.

1430
01:19:41.880 --> 01:19:44.720
I know that you write the majority of your books

1431
01:19:44.800 --> 01:19:47.079
during the summer months when you're not working at school,

1432
01:19:47.600 --> 01:19:51.880
So I'm curious. After veil, of course, I'm always looking

1433
01:19:52.199 --> 01:19:54.920
to the next, Right, what can we expect what comes

1434
01:19:54.920 --> 01:19:56.520
after bail Man?

1435
01:19:56.680 --> 01:19:59.760
That is very much up in the air, which is

1436
01:20:00.000 --> 01:20:05.880
both terrifying and exciting. Yeah, they're different iterations of different

1437
01:20:05.920 --> 01:20:10.720
deals that we are working on right now, and it's

1438
01:20:10.800 --> 01:20:14.560
just funny how kind of one thing informs another. So

1439
01:20:15.960 --> 01:20:20.520
I would love. There are two books I think might

1440
01:20:20.560 --> 01:20:22.720
come out in twenty twenty six, but I don't want

1441
01:20:22.760 --> 01:20:26.079
to say what the titles are yet. They're two more

1442
01:20:26.199 --> 01:20:29.840
for twenty twenty seven, but again I can't really And

1443
01:20:29.880 --> 01:20:31.680
I know you're not like pushing me on it, because

1444
01:20:31.680 --> 01:20:35.479
you're very respectful of like all those parameters and boundaries. Absolutely, yea,

1445
01:20:36.239 --> 01:20:39.079
but yeah, like I look for two novels to come

1446
01:20:39.079 --> 01:20:42.039
out in twenty six, and at least two and twenty seven,

1447
01:20:43.000 --> 01:20:47.039
maybe three, Like I've got so much, I've got so much,

1448
01:20:47.079 --> 01:20:49.720
And yeah, I've gotten to this point where I don't know,

1449
01:20:50.279 --> 01:20:54.760
I have certain expectations for my work and where they're published.

1450
01:20:54.800 --> 01:21:00.239
And yeah, so we'll see, we'll see which deals to

1451
01:21:00.319 --> 01:21:01.720
fruition and which ones don't.

1452
01:21:02.000 --> 01:21:02.279
Nice.

1453
01:21:02.399 --> 01:21:03.960
But she was very unpredictable.

1454
01:21:04.000 --> 01:21:07.560
But yeah, you're you're a bit of a writing machine.

1455
01:21:08.079 --> 01:21:11.119
I won't stop. Yeah, I stop, that's for sure.

1456
01:21:11.880 --> 01:21:14.479
All Right, we made it to the final question. I

1457
01:21:14.560 --> 01:21:17.399
ask this of all my first time guests on the

1458
01:21:17.399 --> 01:21:21.000
Weird Reads podcast. Yeah, and it's it's to help promote

1459
01:21:21.000 --> 01:21:25.760
authors who I've I've I've always noticed that people talk

1460
01:21:25.880 --> 01:21:29.039
they tend to talk about one typical author or a

1461
01:21:29.079 --> 01:21:32.840
group of authors. Right, well, where you're thinking, why aren't

1462
01:21:32.840 --> 01:21:35.239
you talking about these guys who are also awesome, And

1463
01:21:35.319 --> 01:21:38.640
so I want to know what you think, Which authors

1464
01:21:38.680 --> 01:21:42.359
do you feel are neglected and wish more people were discussing,

1465
01:21:42.439 --> 01:21:43.840
especially on social media.

1466
01:21:44.520 --> 01:21:47.880
Yeah, there's one. She doesn't have much of. I don't

1467
01:21:47.920 --> 01:21:50.720
think she's on social media a lot, which probably means

1468
01:21:50.720 --> 01:21:54.119
she's happier than the rest of us who are. But

1469
01:21:55.880 --> 01:22:00.760
the writer. Her name is Fay Snowden fa Ye and

1470
01:22:00.800 --> 01:22:03.880
then last name is s n o w d E

1471
01:22:04.039 --> 01:22:09.600
n Face Noden. She has published a couple of novels

1472
01:22:09.640 --> 01:22:14.000
called A Killing Fire and a Killing Rain. And I

1473
01:22:14.039 --> 01:22:18.079
think you know one thing that really matters we We're

1474
01:22:18.119 --> 01:22:21.399
probably not conscious of it, but it's what I think

1475
01:22:21.560 --> 01:22:24.800
draws us honestly, it's what draws us to Stephen King,

1476
01:22:24.920 --> 01:22:28.279
draws me to Stephen King. And that's voice. I think

1477
01:22:28.399 --> 01:22:32.279
voice is so difficult to nail down, so difficult to define,

1478
01:22:32.439 --> 01:22:36.000
but you know when you hear it. Yeah, And she's

1479
01:22:36.000 --> 01:22:40.119
got a very unique voice, a very strong voice. And

1480
01:22:40.439 --> 01:22:42.800
I would love for people to read those books, The

1481
01:22:42.920 --> 01:22:45.199
Killing Rain and The Killing Fire. Killing Fire was the

1482
01:22:45.239 --> 01:22:47.600
first one, Killing Rain is the second one, and they're

1483
01:22:47.680 --> 01:22:53.199
kind of horror adjacent and kind of they feel Southern

1484
01:22:53.239 --> 01:22:56.840
Gothic to me, and that's a genre I love. But

1485
01:22:56.920 --> 01:23:00.399
she's somebody that I would just really like people to

1486
01:23:00.520 --> 01:23:04.760
become aware of and to really check out, because yeah,

1487
01:23:04.800 --> 01:23:07.000
it's like, you know, Stephen King, the reason I love

1488
01:23:07.079 --> 01:23:10.039
him is his voice. And then like Caroline Kapnis, you know,

1489
01:23:10.119 --> 01:23:13.359
I love her voice in the book You and Providence

1490
01:23:14.319 --> 01:23:17.600
love her voice. It's just very it's just something very

1491
01:23:17.720 --> 01:23:21.119
special that I can kind of just you know, you know,

1492
01:23:21.279 --> 01:23:25.399
tap my tap my toes too and really feel. And

1493
01:23:25.439 --> 01:23:28.279
then Faye is one of those writers I just feel

1494
01:23:28.279 --> 01:23:32.800
like she has got something there and also like she's

1495
01:23:32.920 --> 01:23:35.439
she has a reader ship. People read her. But I

1496
01:23:35.439 --> 01:23:39.479
think that I feel like if she if it would grow,

1497
01:23:39.560 --> 01:23:42.119
if more people would read her, I think more people

1498
01:23:42.119 --> 01:23:45.399
would fall in love with her work. And she's she's

1499
01:23:45.479 --> 01:23:48.640
just somebody that I'd love for her to to write

1500
01:23:48.680 --> 01:23:51.000
a lot more. I mean, I think she writes, but

1501
01:23:51.239 --> 01:23:53.439
love for her to write a lot more because I

1502
01:23:53.439 --> 01:23:55.760
think she's got a lot to say and a lot

1503
01:23:55.760 --> 01:23:57.800
of stories to tell. So that's the one I want

1504
01:23:57.840 --> 01:23:59.479
to talk about ye awesome.

1505
01:23:59.560 --> 01:24:02.399
I had her name and her books to the show

1506
01:24:02.439 --> 01:24:05.880
notes so everyone could go check out. I'm gonna check

1507
01:24:05.920 --> 01:24:09.840
it out, and I want to thank you Jonathan. You're

1508
01:24:09.880 --> 01:24:14.199
sick with a nasty virus that could be life threatening.

1509
01:24:14.279 --> 01:24:16.600
It's not I mean, you're you're up and about, but

1510
01:24:16.640 --> 01:24:18.159
you know what I mean, right like, it's it's a

1511
01:24:18.279 --> 01:24:21.239
nasty virus. And you came on anyway and you talked

1512
01:24:21.239 --> 01:24:23.279
with me, But you didn't just talk with me here,

1513
01:24:23.319 --> 01:24:27.960
you also talked with me on my other podcast, Short Bites,

1514
01:24:28.199 --> 01:24:30.720
And I want to thank you profusely for taking time

1515
01:24:30.760 --> 01:24:33.239
out of your life to to talk to me.

1516
01:24:34.840 --> 01:24:37.119
You're you're doing an awesome job. I love thank you

1517
01:24:37.159 --> 01:24:40.119
so much. You do a wonderful job and you're just

1518
01:24:40.159 --> 01:24:43.359
a super awesome person. So it's always a pleasure.

1519
01:24:43.680 --> 01:24:46.359
Well, thank you. Where is the best place for people

1520
01:24:46.359 --> 01:24:48.359
to follow you online should they want to, you know,

1521
01:24:48.479 --> 01:24:49.960
keep tabs on you for your writing.

1522
01:24:50.319 --> 01:24:53.640
Yeah, like a landing place is Jonathan Jens dot com.

1523
01:24:53.760 --> 01:24:56.119
But you know, you can follow me on most of

1524
01:24:56.159 --> 01:25:00.359
the social media platforms. I I'm on you know, I'm

1525
01:25:00.399 --> 01:25:08.600
on Instagram and Facebook and threads, Blue Sky, Twitter, TikTok occasionally,

1526
01:25:09.640 --> 01:25:12.319
So yeah, follow me any of those places, friend me,

1527
01:25:12.479 --> 01:25:15.640
and then we can interact there. And uh yeah, read

1528
01:25:15.720 --> 01:25:17.840
Lenora from the End of the World as We Know It,

1529
01:25:17.960 --> 01:25:21.000
and then read Please Please Order Veil. Please read Veil,

1530
01:25:21.119 --> 01:25:23.720
because I think it's as good as anything I've written.

1531
01:25:24.560 --> 01:25:26.640
I'm very proud of it, so I hope you all

1532
01:25:26.720 --> 01:25:27.239
check it out.

1533
01:25:27.439 --> 01:25:28.600
It's an incredible book.

1534
01:25:28.920 --> 01:25:29.399
Thanks, ma'am.

1535
01:25:30.039 --> 01:25:32.880
One of my favorites of the year and it kept

1536
01:25:32.880 --> 01:25:36.319
me on my toes maar, So thanks for writing it,

1537
01:25:36.479 --> 01:25:39.800
and thanks. I don't know if you had anything to

1538
01:25:39.800 --> 01:25:42.119
do with it, but I ended up getting a cop,

1539
01:25:42.199 --> 01:25:47.119
an early read copy in e York from What's that Net? Gelly.

1540
01:25:47.680 --> 01:25:49.760
I was so surprised to see that come through, and

1541
01:25:49.840 --> 01:25:50.880
I was like, awesome.

1542
01:25:51.079 --> 01:25:53.840
So I haven't even do with it. Yeah, I don't

1543
01:25:53.840 --> 01:25:57.880
know who who Okay is that who curates? It's so

1544
01:25:58.319 --> 01:26:01.920
above my pay grade. It's just yeah, I was lucky.

1545
01:26:02.159 --> 01:26:02.680
Yeah.

1546
01:26:02.760 --> 01:26:04.880
I'm always hoping that people get it, you know, I

1547
01:26:04.920 --> 01:26:07.159
want everybody to read it. So I was delighted to

1548
01:26:07.199 --> 01:26:08.199
hear that you did. That's great.

1549
01:26:08.319 --> 01:26:10.439
I'm telling you right now, I never get approved for

1550
01:26:10.520 --> 01:26:13.039
net gilly stuff. Oh and so that was like one

1551
01:26:13.039 --> 01:26:15.000
of the first one in year. I don't go there

1552
01:26:15.079 --> 01:26:17.680
very often, but when I do, it's always like Nope,

1553
01:26:17.680 --> 01:26:20.319
we're not interested. That's when went through and I'm like.

1554
01:26:20.239 --> 01:26:23.319
Holy cow, okay, so I read it. Yeah, it makes

1555
01:26:23.359 --> 01:26:24.039
me so happy.

1556
01:26:24.319 --> 01:26:27.520
Awesome. Well, thank you, Jonathan, and I hope you're feeling

1557
01:26:27.560 --> 01:26:29.359
better and we'll talk to you again.

1558
01:26:29.600 --> 01:26:30.920
Thanks man, talk too soon.

1559
01:26:39.119 --> 01:26:42.560
Thank you for listening to my conversation with Jonathan Jans.

1560
01:26:43.399 --> 01:26:47.039
I love talking with this particular writer. He's just so

1561
01:26:47.119 --> 01:26:50.479
much fun to talk to. And I always get a

1562
01:26:50.600 --> 01:26:53.319
kick out of whenever I'm talking to an author and

1563
01:26:53.359 --> 01:26:57.840
I make them fist bump the air because that's exciting.

1564
01:26:59.079 --> 01:26:59.479
All right.

1565
01:26:59.520 --> 01:27:03.119
So coming up on the Weird Reads podcast, I just

1566
01:27:03.159 --> 01:27:07.560
announced it on Threads and kind of surprised at myself, honestly,

1567
01:27:08.039 --> 01:27:11.760
but this year has been really, really busy and exciting.

1568
01:27:12.000 --> 01:27:16.399
For the Weird Reads podcast, I've got some big writers

1569
01:27:16.399 --> 01:27:22.319
such as Jonathan Jans and Chris Panettier. Up next next

1570
01:27:22.359 --> 01:27:25.439
week is a writer I've talked to before and I

1571
01:27:25.479 --> 01:27:30.880
really enjoy talking to as well, and that's John Palasano.

1572
01:27:31.359 --> 01:27:35.239
He is an award winning author. He's won the Stoker

1573
01:27:35.319 --> 01:27:39.279
for a short story, and he's an amazing person to

1574
01:27:39.319 --> 01:27:41.760
talk to. The one thing that was kind of weird,

1575
01:27:42.479 --> 01:27:49.399
no pun intended about the past three conversations Chris Paneteer,

1576
01:27:49.560 --> 01:27:53.359
Jonathan Jans and John Palisano, is that we all talked

1577
01:27:53.359 --> 01:27:56.800
about similar things and it wasn't intended and we and

1578
01:27:56.960 --> 01:27:59.359
that's of course we're talking about space and our love

1579
01:27:59.439 --> 01:28:03.279
for like astrophysics and whatnot, and so I hope that

1580
01:28:03.319 --> 01:28:06.479
people who aren't interested in that kind of stuff are

1581
01:28:06.560 --> 01:28:11.560
okay and don't mind. But it's interesting and it's fun,

1582
01:28:12.119 --> 01:28:14.600
and that's another thing I love about this. But beyond

1583
01:28:14.640 --> 01:28:18.680
those three interviews, we have a lot coming up in

1584
01:28:18.720 --> 01:28:22.600
the future I plan and I'm gonna throw out some

1585
01:28:22.680 --> 01:28:26.840
names here, but just keep in mind things can change.

1586
01:28:26.880 --> 01:28:30.439
But we plan on having Candice Nola on the show

1587
01:28:30.920 --> 01:28:33.840
in a future episode, and quite a few more. I

1588
01:28:33.880 --> 01:28:36.720
am booked pretty much until the end of the year,

1589
01:28:37.760 --> 01:28:41.680
so I can't wait to continue pumping these out now.

1590
01:28:41.720 --> 01:28:45.479
As I said just a second ago, things can always change,

1591
01:28:45.560 --> 01:28:50.479
Schedules can be disrupted. This is podcast land, it's not

1592
01:28:50.560 --> 01:28:54.880
real life, so things always change around and sometimes things

1593
01:28:55.000 --> 01:28:59.680
just get canceled. I've been podcasting since twenty fourteen, and

1594
01:28:59.760 --> 01:29:04.319
so I'm well aware, but I'm still excited. And it's

1595
01:29:04.359 --> 01:29:08.520
morelike that a lot of these interviews will happen, so

1596
01:29:09.199 --> 01:29:11.239
stay tuned. It's going to be a lot of fun.

1597
01:29:11.479 --> 01:29:14.399
And thank you so much for listening. Until next time,

1598
01:29:14.760 --> 01:29:19.199
keep being weird, my friends, because being weird in today's

1599
01:29:19.239 --> 01:29:24.880
awful world is so so important. And until next time,

1600
01:29:25.399 --> 01:30:19.680
keep being safe. I'll catch you guys in the next podcast.