Sept. 1, 2025

060 - Chris Panatier Talks Sh!tshow

060 - Chris Panatier Talks Sh!tshow
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Apple Podcasts podcast player icon Spotify podcast player icon

In this episode of Weird Reads, I sit down with author and artist Chris Panatier for a conversation that spans the heavy and the cosmic. We dive into his love of heavy metal bands and how music fuels his creativity, his experience designing album cover art, and why movies like Interstellar capture both the wonder and terror of space.

Chris also shares his thoughts on astrophysics, the awe-inspiring scale of the universe, and how writing fiction can be a way to confront your deepest fears. From metal riffs to cosmic dread, this is a discussion that blurs the lines between art, science, and storytelling.

Buy Shitshow: https://www.amazon.com/Shitshow-Chris-Panatier-ebook/dp/B0FC1QPTLZ
Chris Panatier Website: https://panatier.com/home.html

Authors mentioned:
- Jess Hagenann
-Josh Rountree
- Ned Beauman

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Intro music created by DudeAwesome from Freesound.
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You're listening to the Weird Reader podcast, an extension of

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Jason's Weird Reads found on YouTube. Welcome, Hello, Welcome to

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Weird Reads. I'm your host, Jason White as usual, and

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this week I have a guest that I wasn't sure

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i'd be able to get on the show, but he

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agreed and that was awesome. So thank you for coming on, Chris.

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Well, thank you, Jason. I'm very easy to get actually,

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I love attention, so thank you. I'm really excited to

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be here.

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Not a problem. We're here to talk about your book,

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shit show. But before we get into any of my questions,

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can you give yourself just a quick introduction so people

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maybe who might be unfamiliar with you might get to

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know you a bit better.

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Of course, my name is Chris Pantitier. Primarily nowadays I

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write books and short stories as well as provide illustrations

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for album covers for indie metal bands that most people

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haven't heard of, as well as book covers and interior

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illustrations for a variety of different venues, whether they be

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journals or magazines or book publishers.

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Awesome. Now, I woke up today in a really good

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mood and that's kind of rare for me.

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I'm good, well, I'm glad.

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But I had something that was like a nightmare while

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I was sleeping. Most people would have considered it a nightmare,

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an absolutely terror blast, but I enjoyed it. I enjoyed

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it a lot. Have you ever had that where you're

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just like, that was a fucked up dream? But I

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really enjoyed it. And now I'm in a good mood

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all day.

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So I can't say that I had a dream that

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was full of like a true nightmare, and that while

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I was having the dream, I was enjoying it. Now

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I have lucid dream before, for sure, where you realize

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you're dreaming, but there's like this mental block that even

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though you realize you're dreaming, it's still terrifying. But I

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have after I've woken up from the nightmare or whatever

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it is, I have gone WHOA, Like whatever that was

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that was presented to me by my own brain was

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awesome in how terrifying it was. I've had some nightmares

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that I still talk about. Just the other week, I

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was telling my daughter about a nightmare I had fifteen

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years ago. I just really stuck with me. So that's

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a little bit similar to what you're talking about, but

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I haven't. I haven't been put in such a good

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mood by a dream in a while.

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I don't get it either. I woke up and I

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was like, that was awesome.

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Yeah, And it was also.

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Like, you know, I could use this for a story definitely,

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like it has some serious good messages to it. I

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think too. Have you ever used dreams for like a

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story ideas?

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I most certainly have. And what I've found is that

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with the as the proximity to the dream increases, right,

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so as you get further away from it, you know,

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it fades very quickly. So I have, you know, taken

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notes down or or tried to just jot something down

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in the morning the next day. If there's an image,

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and mostly for me it's an image, dreams don't really

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give me a whole lot of plot. They they might

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give me a conceit for something or but mostly it's oh,

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that image could be a big center point of a storyline.

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Or if if for instance, I'm writing flash fictions, it

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can be real conducive to that. There's one that I've

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still and trying to find room for in a story,

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which is an image slash thing that I had a

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dream about that was like chasing everyone around a small town.

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And it's so hard to describe, but I've been trying

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to come up with how I would describe it to

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capture the terror I felt in the dream, because if

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I describe it now, it's it doesn't sound that scary.

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It just it was this thing called the duster and

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and as it like it was literally like a long

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like ribbon of dust. Interesting, and as it like went

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around the town, it would get people and then you

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would see like the impressions of like they're screaming faces

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in the dust. That's kind of cool, right, I just

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need to like find a way to use it.

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Yeah, maybe that would make a good comic or something.

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I mean, you too, right, so yeah, yeah that could

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you know, it's funny I have. I've been asked to

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get into comics a couple of times from the art well,

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from the writing side once or twice, but it was

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it was IP and I don't I don't want to

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chain myself down with that. And also I don't I

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have I'm not like a big comic book person, so

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I don't want to go. Sure, I'll do this for you,

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and like get it wrong or anything like that. You know,

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the people who are super serious, they'll be like, you

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fucked this up. But I've been asked to illustrate and

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I've had to turn it down because I'm like, I'm

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not that fast. Like you got to be fast to

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illustrate comic books. You have to be fast, and you

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have to understand that style. I could study that style

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and certainly learn it. I could certainly mimic it, but

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it would it would be such a huge time investment

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that I've had to pass on doing that because I

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have other other stuff that's like standalone art, you know,

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that's kind of my thing.

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Yeah, and you're illustrating, Uh is something that fascinates you

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about you? About me? How's that way that fascinates me

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about you? Because you you've done Like we're both into

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similar music, we both okay styles, right, Yeah. And so

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I think it was on Anna Rose Reads where you

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were talking about that, and I was like, I didn't

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know that. So I went and checked it out and

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holy you know, holy shit, you you've illustrated some like

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like I once I saw your art, I was like, oh, fuck,

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I know this guy, right, because you have a very

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very unique style that just sticks out. Can you talk

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about your illustrating and maybe name drop some of the

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bands you've you've worked for.

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Well, I can, and but I would I would be

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remiss if I didn't mention the people who really inspired me,

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because like metal art, it has some like big pillars, right,

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Like there's Push Heead and there's John Dyer Baisley who

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does all the barrenness stuff, who's incredible, And it was

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Baisley who got me doodling. You know. He's got a

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very kind of art nouveau style and I've always loved

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art nouveau. And so I was in like twenty ten,

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twenty eleven, I was drawing quote album covers and I

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was posting them on Devian Art, but they were just

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at generic. And there's this UK band called Desolated that

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found me and they asked me to illustrate this EP.

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So I did, and then I've illustrated every one of

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their records since probably fifteen or fifteen to twenty records, singles, EPs,

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stuff like that. I've done every single one, and then

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just a word of mouth happened and I started doing them.

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I've done way more for like Europe than a half

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for the US. But in the US I've done. There's

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a band in one of my favorite bands, and when

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I saw them in my DMS, I was like, holy shit,

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it's this band called Witch Ripper out of Seattle, who

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I fucking love. They're amazing And I did their last

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album I think it's called Enter the Loop, and then

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I'm gonna do their next one, so I'm super excited

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about that. And then in other than desolated in the UK,

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I've done some Finnish bands, Norwegian, Spain, I've done Guatemala,

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I've done Brazil, I've done God, I mean Canada, just

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kind of all. I've done a bunch too many now

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to even remember. So it's been really really cool.

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Yeah, that sounds cool, Like I guess you're pretty busy

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with that. Does that keep you busy with the bands?

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I am. I've always had. The way it's just sort

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of spaced it out, is that I've always had one

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going right now. For some reason, I think, I don't

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I don't know. I can't point to one thing in

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the book area. But so so I'm still pretty much

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with the albums. I'm always working on at least one

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right one to two constantly and that's been consistent for

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ten plus years. But then the book stuff really took off.

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I've done I have done a couple of illustrations recently

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for Thunderstorm Books where they do limited edition, you know,

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deluxe hardcovers for books that are ready out. And I

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did one for v Castro for the Pincagave Hotel, and

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that one just it really hit like I like all

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the art I do, but some you go, man, I

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really got this one and and I think that cut

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a lot of eyes. And then I and then I

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also do all the illustrating for Rapture Publishing for the

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chap books that they put out, and they started doing

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that about a year ago and that's been I think

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we've put out like eight or nine so far, maybe eight,

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and so that has gotten people going, oh like, maybe

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I can get a cover from this person, you know.

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And so I've done covers for you know, Thunderstorm, Sleigh House, Rapture.

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I'm trying to think of There's some I'm forgetting, but

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the album covers has stayed consistent. It's the book work

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that has really taken off. I just did one where

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I did chapter illustrate or not chapter short story illustrations

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at the beginning of each short story for Earthling. Earthling

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also does limited edition re releases for a translation by

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this Italian author named Luigi Mussolino. And they're amazing stories

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that the collection is called A Different Darkness. I read

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all the stories and then I did an illustration for

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each one. So so I've been super busy, but you know,

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I'm busy with something I really love, so I can't

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complain about that.

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Oh, it's like doing like a book where you're like

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doing illustrations for short stories and whatnot. Do you I

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imagine they like because you mentioned how much you liked it,

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they do they let you read it before you do

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the art, And do you like pick something out of

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the stories that really spoke to you or do they

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come up with to you and say, hey, this story

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right here is the one where we want to do

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a cover for. Can you you know you know what

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I mean?

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Yeah, that's a great question. The window into that world

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mostly is that they let me do what I want.

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There's this most publishers are really cool about saying, hey,

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you know you're the artist, we trust you on that

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type of stuff. With covers. I generally send them a

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sketch and go, hey, is this is this cool? And

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I haven't had ever had anyone reject one. They've they've said, oh,

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could you shift this, or could you make room for

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x Y or Z and or you know, she has

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curly hair instead of straight hair, and that's very easy

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to fix. But most of the time I get free

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reign with the With the short story collection I did,

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the publisher sent his ideas for each short story. I

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didn't look at those until I read them and came

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up with my own, and then I looked at his

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and we had the same idea for virtually every story

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or just a a alternative. And we were waiting for

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the author to get back with us on the ideas,

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but he was traveling, and I was like, look, I'm

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on a schedule. So I told the publisher, I'm just

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gonna start drawing them, and if Luigi wants to change

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them or whatever, I'm happy too. I want him to

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be happy, but I'm gonna start drawing them and sending

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them to you. And I did, and he sent them

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on to Luigi and he was like, oh man, he

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loved them. Just keep drawing, You're good. And as you're

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like thirteen.

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Awesome. Yeah, while we were talking, I pulled up The

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Witch Ripper on my Spotify and do you mind if

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I just show the cover for.

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The video ahead.

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Yeah, it's like straight yeah, I don't know if that'll clear.

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Yeah, that's it.

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But Jesus christ Man, that's all some stuff right there.

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And that's like, that's that style that I was talking about.

225
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It really pops.

226
00:13:44.399 --> 00:13:53.879
Yeah, yeah, I love I'm like a total line sniffer. Hey,

227
00:13:53.960 --> 00:13:59.080
that's good. That's ambiance. I love like really big bold

228
00:13:59.279 --> 00:14:02.480
lines that are very smooth and flowy. I love that

229
00:14:02.679 --> 00:14:07.279
art nouveau feel. And with that one, you know, they

230
00:14:07.320 --> 00:14:09.120
had the idea they were like, look, we want like

231
00:14:09.519 --> 00:14:13.919
a dead astronaut. We'd like like a goddess style woman.

232
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So that was a lot of fun to do. I

233
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prefer to draw things that are super organic, so you'll

234
00:14:21.120 --> 00:14:25.840
see across most of my work it's all animals, plants, flower,

235
00:14:25.960 --> 00:14:29.000
stuff like that. So anytime someone says, hey, we want

236
00:14:29.039 --> 00:14:32.639
an astronaut, we want something that is inorganic that has

237
00:14:32.799 --> 00:14:36.159
machinery or something like that, I always kind of go

238
00:14:36.399 --> 00:14:38.600
ugh because I don't like it. But it's a great

239
00:14:38.720 --> 00:14:42.559
challenge because I'm going to make it work with my style,

240
00:14:42.799 --> 00:14:45.000
and I have to do a lot of experimentation to

241
00:14:45.000 --> 00:14:47.720
get it to feel right. But I do like a

242
00:14:47.799 --> 00:14:51.720
challenge like that, so I'm real happy with that illustration.

243
00:14:51.799 --> 00:14:56.799
They put that on their bass drum head and then

244
00:14:56.840 --> 00:14:59.879
they also a local brewery did a witch ripper be

245
00:15:00.639 --> 00:15:03.320
and use the you know, use the image for the

246
00:15:03.320 --> 00:15:04.759
beer can. So that was awesome.

247
00:15:05.000 --> 00:15:09.840
That is awesome right there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think

248
00:15:09.840 --> 00:15:13.720
I was first introduced to you through podcasts because I

249
00:15:13.759 --> 00:15:16.080
listened to a lot of authors. I listened to a

250
00:15:16.120 --> 00:15:20.120
lot of author interviews. The's one reason why I do this,

251
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because I'm hooked, and when I'm hooked on something, I

252
00:15:23.840 --> 00:15:27.360
often want to mimic it. But I have been I

253
00:15:27.399 --> 00:15:29.320
have been doing this for like over ten years, so

254
00:15:29.559 --> 00:15:31.480
this shows you how long I've been listening to these

255
00:15:31.519 --> 00:15:39.480
types of podcasts. But so my brain is farting right now,

256
00:15:39.519 --> 00:15:45.120
excuse me, Talking Scared. You've been on Talking Scared quite

257
00:15:45.120 --> 00:15:47.360
a bit, and that's where I think I was first

258
00:15:47.399 --> 00:15:50.559
introduced to you, and then you started popping up another podcast.

259
00:15:50.600 --> 00:15:52.360
But I wanted to ask you because it's been an

260
00:15:52.360 --> 00:15:57.039
interesting rite and very entertaining to listen to you on

261
00:15:57.120 --> 00:16:02.519
the Dark Tower read for Talking Scared, and I just

262
00:16:02.559 --> 00:16:05.200
want to know what's that experience like both being on

263
00:16:05.240 --> 00:16:08.879
the podcast. But I also want to know what's it

264
00:16:09.000 --> 00:16:12.639
like for you reading the books aside from the podcast.

265
00:16:12.960 --> 00:16:14.519
Yeah, yeah, great questions.

266
00:16:14.600 --> 00:16:19.919
I mean, I I've been friends with Neil who runs

267
00:16:19.919 --> 00:16:22.559
that podcast for a couple of years, and I and

268
00:16:23.000 --> 00:16:26.759
being a friend, you know, we were together at Stoke

269
00:16:26.840 --> 00:16:29.720
Orcana about a year and a half ago and I

270
00:16:29.799 --> 00:16:31.559
kind of pulled them aside as we were on a

271
00:16:31.600 --> 00:16:33.720
walk and I was like, hey, man, because he.

272
00:16:33.720 --> 00:16:35.399
Was talking about Stephen King, and I was like, I've

273
00:16:35.399 --> 00:16:39.279
never read any Stephen King except for on writing. It's like,

274
00:16:39.480 --> 00:16:41.759
you know, my great shame as a horror writer. And

275
00:16:43.000 --> 00:16:44.720
because when I decided I want to write horror, I

276
00:16:44.720 --> 00:16:46.559
was playing catch up. I was trying to like read

277
00:16:46.600 --> 00:16:50.279
everything of people you know in my circles, you know,

278
00:16:50.360 --> 00:16:53.200
to read their stuff, and so I wasn't reading like

279
00:16:53.240 --> 00:16:57.799
the back catalog and the classics, so to speak. And

280
00:16:57.879 --> 00:16:59.919
a few weeks later he was like, hey, like, I

281
00:17:00.080 --> 00:17:01.840
think I have a great idea. You know, me and

282
00:17:01.919 --> 00:17:03.679
Nat Cassidy are going to do a deep dive of

283
00:17:03.799 --> 00:17:05.400
dark Tara, do you want to be the guy who

284
00:17:05.880 --> 00:17:07.960
has never read King is reading all this for the

285
00:17:08.000 --> 00:17:10.079
first time, you know, And I was like, I think

286
00:17:10.119 --> 00:17:13.000
that would be a really cool dynamic, and it has

287
00:17:13.079 --> 00:17:15.759
turned out that way. It feels like a very cool dynamic.

288
00:17:15.839 --> 00:17:19.839
It's a lot of fun. And every podcast it's not

289
00:17:19.960 --> 00:17:24.759
just the you know, the audience that is gonna learn

290
00:17:24.799 --> 00:17:27.359
about Stephen King and learn about these books. I mean,

291
00:17:27.400 --> 00:17:31.279
I'm there being you know, basically taught by Nat o'

292
00:17:31.279 --> 00:17:34.480
neil about all the background stuff, you know, and all

293
00:17:34.519 --> 00:17:39.319
the tie ins and all of that, and reading it

294
00:17:39.359 --> 00:17:43.680
for the first time has been super interesting because I

295
00:17:43.720 --> 00:17:50.279
have never read anything that sounds like that, if that

296
00:17:50.519 --> 00:17:54.400
makes any sense. Like especially diving into The Gunslinger for

297
00:17:54.440 --> 00:17:58.839
the first time, it was it was like a little

298
00:17:58.880 --> 00:18:05.000
bit like reading something that was entirely uncalibrated to anything

299
00:18:05.000 --> 00:18:08.400
that's being written now, and that I guess makes sense,

300
00:18:08.480 --> 00:18:10.759
but it was like kind of getting bonked over the head.

301
00:18:11.400 --> 00:18:16.640
And you know, I soon found out that most King fans,

302
00:18:17.519 --> 00:18:20.000
as far as the Dark Tower goes, don't really like

303
00:18:20.079 --> 00:18:22.720
The gun Slinger or don't like it in you know,

304
00:18:23.000 --> 00:18:26.519
the top three or four books. Whereas for me, now

305
00:18:27.119 --> 00:18:31.440
after we've done three plus The Stand, plus I've read

306
00:18:31.440 --> 00:18:33.400
Salem's Lot, which we're going to do an episode of

307
00:18:34.400 --> 00:18:38.640
The gun Slinger. Is my favorite King book so far? Really, yes, yes,

308
00:18:38.839 --> 00:18:43.240
Now there are parts of The Stand, the first three

309
00:18:43.359 --> 00:18:47.880
hundred pages where it's the Plague that I was texting

310
00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:50.160
Nat and Neil while I was reading that. I was like,

311
00:18:50.279 --> 00:18:54.599
this fucking slaps like this, this is unbelievable. It's so good,

312
00:18:55.640 --> 00:18:58.759
those first three hundred pages. Then the last two hundred

313
00:18:58.799 --> 00:19:06.200
pages of Wastelands was amazing, the town of Lood and

314
00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:14.920
the big fight and the first the first bit of

315
00:19:15.319 --> 00:19:18.279
drawing of the three where you're meeting Eddie. Because I've

316
00:19:18.319 --> 00:19:22.200
just come out of Gunslinger and now I'm on an

317
00:19:22.240 --> 00:19:25.400
airplane with a heroin dealer, the guy. The guy's got

318
00:19:25.400 --> 00:19:27.319
bricks of heroin under his arms. I was like, what

319
00:19:27.359 --> 00:19:28.839
the fuck is going on? Is okay?

320
00:19:28.839 --> 00:19:33.160
If? Sorry? No, well your book is called shit show,

321
00:19:33.240 --> 00:19:33.920
sh okay?

322
00:19:33.960 --> 00:19:37.920
All right, all right, that's fair enough. So so yeah,

323
00:19:38.000 --> 00:19:42.200
so far it's been so interesting because I keep trying

324
00:19:42.200 --> 00:19:44.680
to figure out where this thing's going, and I do know,

325
00:19:44.880 --> 00:19:49.920
and Nat mostly has kind of said hey, like he's

326
00:19:49.960 --> 00:19:53.240
been pretty open about his style and like he didn't

327
00:19:53.279 --> 00:19:56.880
really know exactly where he was going, Like he got

328
00:19:56.920 --> 00:19:59.079
an idea, he just ran with it, and then he

329
00:19:59.160 --> 00:20:02.480
made it all work. So don't you know, stress your

330
00:20:02.480 --> 00:20:04.599
little brain too much trying to think where he was

331
00:20:04.640 --> 00:20:08.359
going because he didn't necessarily know, especially early on. But

332
00:20:08.400 --> 00:20:12.519
it's been a ride and it's been great. I needed

333
00:20:12.599 --> 00:20:14.839
that in my life as a horror writer.

334
00:20:15.279 --> 00:20:18.119
Which you didn't even know until you started reading, right,

335
00:20:18.200 --> 00:20:21.319
Like correct, that book is or that series is just

336
00:20:21.799 --> 00:20:24.799
phenomenally out there. Like, I don't think too many people

337
00:20:24.799 --> 00:20:26.319
could get away with it with that.

338
00:20:26.880 --> 00:20:30.160
I don't think anybody. I don't think frankly, I don't

339
00:20:30.160 --> 00:20:33.880
think anybody could write The Stand Today or The Dark

340
00:20:33.960 --> 00:20:37.240
Tower and have it published as it's written. I think

341
00:20:39.240 --> 00:20:42.160
there would be a lot of editorial input on them,

342
00:20:42.680 --> 00:20:44.640
not as far as like the writing, but I just

343
00:20:44.680 --> 00:20:47.480
think maybe the structure. Like I think I said for

344
00:20:47.640 --> 00:20:50.880
on The Stand podcast, I was like, I don't know

345
00:20:51.640 --> 00:20:56.519
the motivations of a lot of these big players in

346
00:20:56.559 --> 00:20:58.559
this story, and you never learn them.

347
00:20:59.119 --> 00:21:01.000
Yeah, they just are And.

348
00:21:00.920 --> 00:21:03.400
That's that's Nowadays it's like, hey, we have to have

349
00:21:04.039 --> 00:21:06.559
we have to understand where this person is coming from

350
00:21:06.920 --> 00:21:11.359
and I think Neil might have said. Someone I was

351
00:21:11.440 --> 00:21:14.680
listening to said, I'm crediting Neil. He probably doesn't deserve it,

352
00:21:15.079 --> 00:21:20.640
but that they were like, I'm tired of always having

353
00:21:21.480 --> 00:21:25.119
to have the backstory for the antagonist. I'm tired of like,

354
00:21:25.359 --> 00:21:28.200
why do we always have to understand and empathize with them?

355
00:21:28.240 --> 00:21:30.720
Sometimes you can just have an antagonist, and I'm here

356
00:21:30.799 --> 00:21:31.039
for that.

357
00:21:31.440 --> 00:21:31.640
Yeah.

358
00:21:32.160 --> 00:21:35.839
At the same time, in a thirteen hundred page book

359
00:21:35.960 --> 00:21:37.960
like The Stand, I'd like to know a little bit

360
00:21:38.000 --> 00:21:40.039
more about Randall Flag for sure.

361
00:21:40.119 --> 00:21:43.799
Right, Yeah, Well, it sounds to like you're going to

362
00:21:43.880 --> 00:21:47.039
be shocked as you read along with uh, you've been

363
00:21:47.079 --> 00:21:50.160
told this, but yeah, in the Dark Tower series, you're

364
00:21:50.200 --> 00:21:52.880
gonna have your mind blown. And I'll just leave it

365
00:21:52.920 --> 00:21:56.920
at that. But yeah, but yeah, where are you exactly?

366
00:21:56.920 --> 00:21:57.079
Are you?

367
00:21:57.599 --> 00:21:57.680
Like?

368
00:21:58.039 --> 00:22:00.119
You just finished book three?

369
00:22:00.279 --> 00:22:03.480
So yeah, we finished book three, then we did The Stand. Yeah,

370
00:22:03.559 --> 00:22:07.799
then I think we're doing I think we're doing Salem's

371
00:22:07.799 --> 00:22:11.720
Lot next, then we're doing Wizard and Glass. So Salem's

372
00:22:11.759 --> 00:22:13.640
Lot and Wizard and Glass will be the last two

373
00:22:13.640 --> 00:22:17.839
we do this year, and then we'll do five, six

374
00:22:17.960 --> 00:22:18.559
seven next year.

375
00:22:18.599 --> 00:22:21.640
I think, Yeah, I can't wait because after this conversation

376
00:22:21.799 --> 00:22:24.359
with just some of the things you said there. Yeah,

377
00:22:25.240 --> 00:22:26.920
You're going to be like, oh my god.

378
00:22:27.559 --> 00:22:31.319
Amazing, amazing, right, yeah, like I'm probably gonna get some

379
00:22:31.319 --> 00:22:34.519
answers to the stuff I'm complaining about, right, So yeah, exactly,

380
00:22:34.599 --> 00:22:35.599
I'm excited for that.

381
00:22:35.920 --> 00:22:39.440
One thing that I was entertained about was and a

382
00:22:39.440 --> 00:22:41.680
little worried there for a little bit because Neil got

383
00:22:41.680 --> 00:22:46.640
mad at you. Yeah. Yeah, And so I was wondering,

384
00:22:46.640 --> 00:22:49.599
were you surprised that Neil got mad at your opinion

385
00:22:49.720 --> 00:22:52.960
of OI? And has your opinion of OI changed at all?

386
00:22:53.640 --> 00:22:57.519
You know, this is a question I probably get asked more.

387
00:22:58.400 --> 00:23:01.119
Just literally. I was at was at a bookstore event

388
00:23:01.240 --> 00:23:03.839
in Pennsylvania called Dark Ink last week, and one of

389
00:23:03.880 --> 00:23:06.920
the audience members I was like on a panel and

390
00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:08.880
there it comes to Q and A, and someone was like,

391
00:23:09.359 --> 00:23:13.759
do you still hate OI? And and as Neil said,

392
00:23:13.799 --> 00:23:16.599
I have turned heel right because of this opinion. But

393
00:23:16.720 --> 00:23:20.079
let me just take thirty seconds to explain. So in

394
00:23:20.680 --> 00:23:26.039
the book in the Wastelands King, you know, you know,

395
00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:29.519
he brings in tons of pop culture, right, talks about

396
00:23:29.680 --> 00:23:33.599
he talks, He's talked about RoboCop. He's just whatever, movie

397
00:23:33.720 --> 00:23:37.559
he's seen he's talking about in the book, and one

398
00:23:37.640 --> 00:23:42.480
he mentions is one of my favorites of my entire life,

399
00:23:42.559 --> 00:23:45.359
and that is the Dark Crystal. And he mentions the

400
00:23:45.440 --> 00:23:49.039
Dark Crystal early on, and then we get this Billy Bumbler.

401
00:23:49.720 --> 00:23:51.799
And as soon as we met the Billy Bumbler, I

402
00:23:51.920 --> 00:23:55.960
was like, I think he wanted a fizz Gig because

403
00:23:56.000 --> 00:23:59.279
in the Dark Crystal there's this little yappye guy, really cute,

404
00:23:59.440 --> 00:24:03.640
very ang read fizz Gig, this little pet, And I

405
00:24:03.680 --> 00:24:06.039
was like, it's just too much of a coincidence. We're

406
00:24:06.079 --> 00:24:09.839
in the third book. There hasn't been any you know,

407
00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:12.720
there's the there's the Hawk, but the hawk was a

408
00:24:12.720 --> 00:24:18.720
real animal. We haven't had any fantastical creature sidekicks yet,

409
00:24:18.759 --> 00:24:21.880
and all of a sudden we have this Billy Bumbler thing.

410
00:24:22.200 --> 00:24:26.720
So I was like, no, I refuse to be to

411
00:24:26.799 --> 00:24:30.240
be puppeted around by my heartstrings for this thing. So

412
00:24:30.880 --> 00:24:33.640
as we were going I was complaining to Neil and

413
00:24:33.759 --> 00:24:37.359
Nat about the Billy Bumbler and then Nat said, well,

414
00:24:37.400 --> 00:24:39.319
wait until he does something good. And then he did

415
00:24:39.359 --> 00:24:42.920
something good. He helps them out in the wastelands, and

416
00:24:43.519 --> 00:24:46.200
Nat said, what do you think now, And I said, well, now,

417
00:24:46.240 --> 00:24:50.240
I like OI, but I'm angrier because I feel like

418
00:24:50.279 --> 00:24:55.359
I've been manipulated. My emotions have been manipulated. But let's

419
00:24:55.400 --> 00:24:57.440
be very clear, this is a very kind of affable,

420
00:24:57.519 --> 00:25:01.039
friendly thing. I don't know, oh absolutely, I don't actually hate,

421
00:25:01.079 --> 00:25:06.839
but but I was. I was enthusiastically annoyed by OI

422
00:25:07.440 --> 00:25:08.039
early on.

423
00:25:08.279 --> 00:25:10.799
Well, honestly, all of that makes it all fun, but

424
00:25:10.960 --> 00:25:14.680
that you have this opinion, and I find that conflict

425
00:25:14.720 --> 00:25:18.319
like that is entertaining. But I remember before you even

426
00:25:18.400 --> 00:25:21.240
got to that, you you mentioned something about OI during

427
00:25:21.279 --> 00:25:25.480
that discussion, and and Neil he sounded angry. He was

428
00:25:25.519 --> 00:25:27.440
just like, oh, funk off with your opinion on that

429
00:25:27.519 --> 00:25:28.200
for a minute.

430
00:25:28.720 --> 00:25:33.839
Yeah, Now, I mean, Neil Is has got to just

431
00:25:34.480 --> 00:25:38.799
calm down a little bit, you know, maybe take a

432
00:25:38.799 --> 00:25:43.920
warm bath, because, uh, he has these awful opinions about Jake.

433
00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:48.599
He hates Jake, and Jake is my son. I get it.

434
00:25:49.039 --> 00:25:52.119
Honestly with me, I love both those characters, so so

435
00:25:52.519 --> 00:25:55.839
you know, I can kind of understand each each opinion.

436
00:25:55.920 --> 00:25:58.880
But yeah, yeah, it's just it's been so much fun

437
00:25:58.960 --> 00:26:03.440
it actually introducing a little bit of conflict and not

438
00:26:03.519 --> 00:26:06.119
just all three of us going, oh, yes, everything's great,

439
00:26:06.160 --> 00:26:06.839
has been fun.

440
00:26:07.319 --> 00:26:11.240
Yeah. Well, to change the subject before we get into

441
00:26:11.279 --> 00:26:14.519
shit show, I was creeping your socials as I do

442
00:26:14.599 --> 00:26:16.960
when I'm going to talk to somebody, and I saw

443
00:26:16.960 --> 00:26:21.039
that practice jiu jitsu. Yeah, I find that interesting. I

444
00:26:21.079 --> 00:26:23.200
was wondering, how long have you been doing that? And

445
00:26:23.920 --> 00:26:27.359
you were at your first competition recently, So what was

446
00:26:27.359 --> 00:26:27.720
that like?

447
00:26:28.160 --> 00:26:33.319
Yeah? Well, so we started our daughter in jiu jitsu

448
00:26:33.480 --> 00:26:38.640
when she was eight because it's an extremely good self defense.

449
00:26:38.599 --> 00:26:40.480
Very much. So, yeah, I could see martial art.

450
00:26:41.119 --> 00:26:45.799
It's very real martial art with really practical applications. And

451
00:26:46.079 --> 00:26:48.359
for like the first year, I went and sat on

452
00:26:48.400 --> 00:26:50.160
the bench and watched her and then took her home.

453
00:26:50.559 --> 00:26:54.039
And I had done it fifteen years ago for about

454
00:26:54.039 --> 00:26:57.759
a year. I really loved it. I've always loved rough sports.

455
00:26:57.759 --> 00:27:01.400
I played rugby and stuff. I don't claim to be

456
00:27:01.440 --> 00:27:04.400
good at anything, but I like just getting smashed around.

457
00:27:04.440 --> 00:27:09.359
That's just my kink. I guess sure. But I got

458
00:27:09.400 --> 00:27:12.680
a double hernia fifteen years ago, literally like exploded my

459
00:27:12.759 --> 00:27:15.279
guts had to have surgery, and I was like, I

460
00:27:15.319 --> 00:27:17.759
don't think I do that anymore. But then you know,

461
00:27:18.640 --> 00:27:21.799
thirteen years later or whatever it was. I'm taking her

462
00:27:22.279 --> 00:27:26.440
and the guy who runs the gym is an awesome guy,

463
00:27:26.559 --> 00:27:29.400
really good guy, and it's a really good environment and

464
00:27:29.440 --> 00:27:32.319
he's like, hey, man, you know there's other dads in here.

465
00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:36.079
And so eventually I started doing it. I was going

466
00:27:36.119 --> 00:27:38.680
once a week in the class after my daughter, and

467
00:27:38.720 --> 00:27:41.920
then something clicked and now I go like five or

468
00:27:41.960 --> 00:27:45.200
six times a week. Nice And I've been doing that

469
00:27:45.240 --> 00:27:48.279
for about two and a half years and competed for

470
00:27:48.319 --> 00:27:50.119
the first time. I was like, I got to compete

471
00:27:50.160 --> 00:27:54.240
at some point just to experience it, and I really

472
00:27:54.279 --> 00:27:56.680
loved it. So I'll compete again. But I'm in the

473
00:27:56.720 --> 00:28:03.039
super old man bracket, so's it's fun. They call it masters,

474
00:28:03.319 --> 00:28:07.640
but that's just a nice way of saying old shot out.

475
00:28:09.839 --> 00:28:12.279
Oh yeah, I like that. I've thought about doing it myself,

476
00:28:13.039 --> 00:28:16.000
but I don't know. I'm the type of person who,

477
00:28:16.480 --> 00:28:19.000
when I'm playing football, see the ball coming for me

478
00:28:19.400 --> 00:28:21.519
and I'll hold my hands, but it'll bounce off my

479
00:28:21.559 --> 00:28:22.279
face anyway.

480
00:28:22.839 --> 00:28:25.799
Well, the good news about jiu jitsu is that, no

481
00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:30.079
matter what your athleticism is, when you show up at

482
00:28:30.119 --> 00:28:34.759
jiu jitsu for the first time, you're terrible. You're terrible.

483
00:28:34.880 --> 00:28:38.640
You don't you have no idea how to move your body,

484
00:28:38.680 --> 00:28:43.319
and all these very counterintuitive ways. So, for instance, I'm

485
00:28:43.319 --> 00:28:45.759
gonna give you an example. There's a new guy at

486
00:28:45.799 --> 00:28:49.319
our gym who showed up and it was his first class.

487
00:28:49.920 --> 00:28:53.160
And at the end of class, we always roll so sparring, right,

488
00:28:53.240 --> 00:28:57.599
so we're always we always spar and I was matched

489
00:28:57.640 --> 00:29:00.920
up with him and I'm just a he's a bigger guy.

490
00:29:01.000 --> 00:29:04.319
He's he's about six to two, maybe maybe over two

491
00:29:04.440 --> 00:29:06.680
hundred a little bit. I'm one seventy five, I'm I'm

492
00:29:06.839 --> 00:29:09.839
on a good day, five eight, and I'm kind of

493
00:29:09.920 --> 00:29:13.960
chucking him around, right and the not in a mean way,

494
00:29:13.960 --> 00:29:16.920
but you know, and afterwards, you know, the class is

495
00:29:16.960 --> 00:29:20.559
over and the professor they call him professors, the black

496
00:29:20.559 --> 00:29:23.200
belts who teach the classes. He came up and he said,

497
00:29:23.200 --> 00:29:25.839
you know that guy that you were rolling with, that

498
00:29:26.480 --> 00:29:31.680
he was taking the intro class, that's and he gave

499
00:29:31.680 --> 00:29:33.440
me the name. And I won't see the guy's name

500
00:29:33.440 --> 00:29:35.880
because I don't want to, you know, publicize this guy,

501
00:29:36.640 --> 00:29:41.440
but he's he's a ex stars hockey player for the

502
00:29:41.519 --> 00:29:48.160
Dallas Stars. Oh wow, yeah, and super strong, very athletic obviously,

503
00:29:49.200 --> 00:29:51.799
but he did he he hasn't learned how to move

504
00:29:51.920 --> 00:29:55.440
the right way in jiu jitsu. So someone like me, smaller,

505
00:29:55.960 --> 00:30:01.680
older and and not as strong, not as big. I

506
00:30:01.839 --> 00:30:04.400
know the techniques, so I can flop them around and

507
00:30:04.559 --> 00:30:07.519
whatever and do kind of whatever I want. So with

508
00:30:07.680 --> 00:30:10.559
that said, if you are interested, it can be a

509
00:30:10.599 --> 00:30:13.599
great outlet. It's an art. You're really learning an art.

510
00:30:13.680 --> 00:30:16.079
And the cool thing is there's no finish line. There's

511
00:30:16.119 --> 00:30:18.880
nobody who's like, well, I got a black belt, I

512
00:30:18.960 --> 00:30:23.119
now reached the pinnacle of jiu jitsu. It's it just

513
00:30:23.160 --> 00:30:24.440
goes forever until you die.

514
00:30:24.559 --> 00:30:26.359
So yeah, I thought it'd be a great thing for

515
00:30:26.400 --> 00:30:27.319
me and my son to do.

516
00:30:27.599 --> 00:30:31.799
Oh man, you should hold your son. My daughter's eleven,

517
00:30:32.079 --> 00:30:36.640
so yeah, so go take them. So many of these gyms,

518
00:30:36.880 --> 00:30:38.359
they're such They really.

519
00:30:38.119 --> 00:30:40.880
Do have a great culture. People see jiu jitsu and

520
00:30:40.960 --> 00:30:45.359
jiu jitsu douchebags sometimes and go, I you know, really,

521
00:30:45.400 --> 00:30:47.599
that's that. That is a minority of the people in

522
00:30:47.599 --> 00:30:49.640
the community. I just got back from a thing that

523
00:30:49.680 --> 00:30:52.680
I was watching. That's why I was late. It ran

524
00:30:52.799 --> 00:30:56.079
late and I was at a watching a competition and

525
00:30:57.319 --> 00:30:59.640
it was awesome, everyone were hanging out with. Everyone was

526
00:30:59.759 --> 00:31:04.559
very and I am not have never been a jock

527
00:31:04.680 --> 00:31:07.079
a meathead. I've never been in those crowds. I've always

528
00:31:07.079 --> 00:31:09.759
solidly been in the nerd crowd or the bridge crowd,

529
00:31:10.880 --> 00:31:13.359
the one that can maybe translate between the jocks and

530
00:31:13.400 --> 00:31:18.319
the nerds a little bit. But jiu jitsu is actually

531
00:31:18.440 --> 00:31:23.400
for nerds. The more nerdy nerdy er you are about

532
00:31:23.559 --> 00:31:25.960
learning it, the better you'll be awesome.

533
00:31:26.079 --> 00:31:28.680
I'm going to keep that in mind. Yeah, and I

534
00:31:28.319 --> 00:31:32.599
might might look into it. Speaking of Instagram, you also

535
00:31:32.720 --> 00:31:35.400
mentioned on there. I think it was Instagram, it might

536
00:31:35.440 --> 00:31:38.039
have been somewhere else because I'm not too sure, and

537
00:31:38.039 --> 00:31:40.279
maybe it was a video. I don't know, but you

538
00:31:40.400 --> 00:31:44.759
mentioned that your decision to become a writer, to become

539
00:31:44.759 --> 00:31:47.519
a writer was rather rash, like you just woke up

540
00:31:47.519 --> 00:31:50.759
one day and you're like, I'm going to write. Can

541
00:31:50.799 --> 00:31:54.839
you tell us about that that day and what kept

542
00:31:54.880 --> 00:31:56.920
you going, because I'm sure there was a lot of like,

543
00:31:56.960 --> 00:31:58.640
oh gods, what did I get myself into?

544
00:32:00.200 --> 00:32:03.559
Well, yeah, that was I think that was a video

545
00:32:03.640 --> 00:32:07.519
I put on TikTok about this resource, this blog that

546
00:32:07.599 --> 00:32:10.519
I had been reading when I first decided I wanted

547
00:32:10.599 --> 00:32:14.160
to be a writer, put out by this agent named

548
00:32:14.240 --> 00:32:17.200
Janet Reed, who has since passed, but she had this

549
00:32:17.319 --> 00:32:19.759
amazing blog that I read every day, and it really

550
00:32:19.799 --> 00:32:22.799
gave me a good idea of what to expect if

551
00:32:22.799 --> 00:32:25.680
I was going to undertake a publishing journey. So so

552
00:32:27.359 --> 00:32:32.160
in twenty fifteen, like January of twenty fifteen, our daughter

553
00:32:32.240 --> 00:32:34.279
is like nine months old. My wife and I go

554
00:32:34.359 --> 00:32:36.480
see a movie for the first time since our daughter

555
00:32:36.559 --> 00:32:38.880
was born, right, and the movie we went to see

556
00:32:38.960 --> 00:32:44.640
was Interstellar, and yes, and so I was in a

557
00:32:44.680 --> 00:32:46.880
real special place man in my head. I had been

558
00:32:46.920 --> 00:32:50.079
to a movie. It was like the most exciting thing ever.

559
00:32:50.400 --> 00:32:51.119
I know what that's like?

560
00:32:51.599 --> 00:32:54.599
Yeah, right, and I know you do, of course, And

561
00:32:55.160 --> 00:32:58.039
it's amazing. It's an amazing movie. And I was so

562
00:32:58.640 --> 00:33:03.640
just like starry eyed about it and about the scientific

563
00:33:03.680 --> 00:33:07.799
concepts in it and how amazing it was. I went

564
00:33:07.839 --> 00:33:11.720
home and I bought a book called The Science of

565
00:33:11.799 --> 00:33:16.160
Interstellar by Kip Thorn. Now Kip Thorn is a astrophysicist

566
00:33:16.279 --> 00:33:19.720
at the Jet Propulsion Labs. And this is a book

567
00:33:20.200 --> 00:33:23.559
it's like almost like it's like kind of big and floppy.

568
00:33:23.599 --> 00:33:27.440
It's kind of like a work book, but it's not.

569
00:33:27.599 --> 00:33:31.440
It's a reading book you read and it very in

570
00:33:31.759 --> 00:33:36.759
very understandable terms. It explains the science of interstellar because

571
00:33:36.759 --> 00:33:40.759
they wanted it to be grounded in science that was

572
00:33:40.799 --> 00:33:44.200
either currently known or plausible, not something that we know

573
00:33:44.400 --> 00:33:48.480
is impossible from what we currently know. And it explained

574
00:33:48.960 --> 00:33:52.680
Garganshua the black hole. They ended up publishing like three

575
00:33:52.759 --> 00:33:56.279
peer reviewed studies just based on modeling that black hole.

576
00:33:56.319 --> 00:33:58.640
So I was like, as soon as I finished reading that,

577
00:33:59.000 --> 00:34:02.279
I was like, oh my god, Like people should write

578
00:34:02.319 --> 00:34:04.640
books about outer space? Do they do that? You know?

579
00:34:06.839 --> 00:34:10.519
And it was almost like I wanted to dive in

580
00:34:10.599 --> 00:34:14.239
myself and I wanted to create something that was as

581
00:34:14.400 --> 00:34:20.320
wondrous as what I had just seen. And so at

582
00:34:20.360 --> 00:34:22.360
the time, I was like, what do I write? Like

583
00:34:22.440 --> 00:34:24.960
do I write like ya or middle grade? Like I've

584
00:34:25.000 --> 00:34:28.239
got a little girl, And so I was like, I'm

585
00:34:28.239 --> 00:34:33.760
gonna write a middle grade book. And I literally like

586
00:34:33.840 --> 00:34:37.159
had to google, like when you write dialogue, where does

587
00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:41.800
the comic goo? Where does the quotation work go? And

588
00:34:41.880 --> 00:34:47.400
I just started writing. And the question I kept asking

589
00:34:47.480 --> 00:34:50.360
myself as I was writing was does this sound like

590
00:34:50.400 --> 00:34:54.000
a book? Is this how books sound because the other

591
00:34:54.119 --> 00:34:56.039
area where I also had to play a lot of

592
00:34:56.119 --> 00:35:01.639
ketchup was in what I was reading. I you know,

593
00:35:01.800 --> 00:35:06.199
I've been telling the story for a little while because

594
00:35:07.360 --> 00:35:10.719
since I started, you know, getting asked on podcasts and stuff.

595
00:35:10.920 --> 00:35:13.280
And I was very embarrassed to do it the first

596
00:35:13.280 --> 00:35:17.960
time because when you listen to authors speak, ninety nine

597
00:35:18.000 --> 00:35:21.000
times out of one hundred, they're asked the question when

598
00:35:21.039 --> 00:35:22.880
did you know you wanted to write? And they say

599
00:35:22.880 --> 00:35:24.880
when I was seven years old and I was stealing

600
00:35:24.920 --> 00:35:27.840
my parents Stephen King novels, you know or whatever. Yeah,

601
00:35:27.880 --> 00:35:31.679
And for me, I'm like, I'm like, well, I have

602
00:35:31.760 --> 00:35:35.840
no street cred because when it was when I was

603
00:35:35.880 --> 00:35:40.199
thirty eight, you know, I I read. But what I

604
00:35:40.239 --> 00:35:44.519
read was I love real science stuff, so I was

605
00:35:44.559 --> 00:35:47.400
always reading. I was always picking up Scientific American. I

606
00:35:47.440 --> 00:35:50.880
was always reading as much as I could understand, just

607
00:35:50.920 --> 00:35:54.559
because I loved it so much. I was I was reading,

608
00:35:54.599 --> 00:35:58.159
you know, Frontier history of the US. I'm like a

609
00:35:58.239 --> 00:36:03.960
reverse White Mail because usually they get to their history

610
00:36:04.039 --> 00:36:06.760
stuff about at my age, and that's when they go

611
00:36:06.880 --> 00:36:10.199
into their cavern and read all the World War II stuff. Right,

612
00:36:11.320 --> 00:36:13.519
I kind of did the reverse I kind of did

613
00:36:13.519 --> 00:36:18.159
that in my twenties and early thirties, and then I

614
00:36:19.880 --> 00:36:27.239
saw Interstellar, but also I read his Dark Materials series.

615
00:36:27.719 --> 00:36:30.880
The reason is because my daughter is named Lyra and

616
00:36:31.320 --> 00:36:33.639
my wife is the one that was like, oh, I

617
00:36:33.639 --> 00:36:36.239
think this girl is going to be a Lyra, and

618
00:36:36.400 --> 00:36:38.960
so I read the series and I was like, oh

619
00:36:39.000 --> 00:36:42.199
my god, like people write this stuff. This is amazing.

620
00:36:42.320 --> 00:36:44.960
Like that's how naive I was. And then I just

621
00:36:45.000 --> 00:36:48.920
started chowing down on everything I could read and playing

622
00:36:49.000 --> 00:36:52.280
ketchup at the same time that I was writing this

623
00:36:52.360 --> 00:36:56.960
first novel, and I decided to write every day. I

624
00:36:57.000 --> 00:37:00.119
wrote every day no matter what, whether it was a

625
00:37:00.119 --> 00:37:02.639
couple hundred words or a couple thousand words. And what

626
00:37:02.679 --> 00:37:05.000
I discovered was and this is something I think what

627
00:37:05.079 --> 00:37:09.760
helped me drive through it and get through the frustrations,

628
00:37:09.840 --> 00:37:13.800
and the big learning curve was that I had done

629
00:37:13.840 --> 00:37:17.280
this in art. In the early two thousands. I'd always

630
00:37:17.360 --> 00:37:19.880
kind of done art. I was the person who always

631
00:37:19.960 --> 00:37:22.159
knew I wanted to be an artist in some capacity. Right,

632
00:37:22.599 --> 00:37:24.800
I was done art, but I hadn't really up my game.

633
00:37:24.920 --> 00:37:26.519
And in the early two thousands, I was like, I'm

634
00:37:26.519 --> 00:37:29.400
going to get better, and I really really worked to

635
00:37:31.199 --> 00:37:33.519
put hours into the craft and get better, and I

636
00:37:33.599 --> 00:37:36.840
did so. I was like, as I was learning to write,

637
00:37:36.920 --> 00:37:38.599
I was like, I think this is the same thing.

638
00:37:38.679 --> 00:37:40.400
I think this is going to go the same way.

639
00:37:40.760 --> 00:37:43.079
And I could after three months, I could look back

640
00:37:43.119 --> 00:37:45.360
at the stuff from month one and go, oh, yeah,

641
00:37:45.440 --> 00:37:49.920
like that's terrible. You are making progress. And I just

642
00:37:50.039 --> 00:37:52.800
continued to do that, and after about ten months I

643
00:37:52.800 --> 00:37:58.480
had a finished novel. I edited it for another year.

644
00:37:58.920 --> 00:38:02.960
Then I proudly sent it out to ninety plus agents

645
00:38:03.400 --> 00:38:05.280
and was rejected by every single one.

646
00:38:05.639 --> 00:38:08.760
Yeah, I know what that's like, it right, But.

647
00:38:08.920 --> 00:38:12.400
Then by then I understood. I had been reading Janet

648
00:38:12.480 --> 00:38:15.000
Read's blog. I was like, you know what, this is

649
00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:18.400
what I expected to happen. So that's okay, I'm going

650
00:38:18.440 --> 00:38:21.199
to shelve this book. I'm gonna start another one. And

651
00:38:21.239 --> 00:38:24.599
I started another one. And so that's kind of how

652
00:38:24.639 --> 00:38:27.480
that how that journey started. I know that has been

653
00:38:27.480 --> 00:38:30.320
a long winded answer, but I hope I addressed what

654
00:38:30.360 --> 00:38:31.000
you were asking.

655
00:38:31.320 --> 00:38:33.679
It's actually kind of goes with the flow of what

656
00:38:33.800 --> 00:38:36.760
I have to ask you. Because you started writing science fiction,

657
00:38:36.880 --> 00:38:40.400
which connect that makes sense. Why now you started writing

658
00:38:40.400 --> 00:38:44.000
science fiction? But what doesn't make sense is why you

659
00:38:44.079 --> 00:38:47.679
chose to switch, Cause because you write science fiction because

660
00:38:47.679 --> 00:38:54.320
you're completely odd by science, and then you switched to horror. Now,

661
00:38:54.400 --> 00:38:57.360
horror and science can go hand in hand, but it

662
00:38:57.480 --> 00:38:59.960
still begs like, why did you switch to horror?

663
00:39:00.480 --> 00:39:05.119
The great, absolutely great question. So it's funny. My first novel,

664
00:39:05.159 --> 00:39:09.920
The Phlebotomist, I won't spoil anything, but it's very horror adjacent.

665
00:39:10.639 --> 00:39:13.440
But at the time, and I knew that at the time.

666
00:39:13.719 --> 00:39:17.760
I mean, if I were to spoil what the main

667
00:39:17.920 --> 00:39:20.719
trope is, people would go, that's a horror novel.

668
00:39:20.440 --> 00:39:23.920
Stupid, But I was so I was so.

669
00:39:25.800 --> 00:39:29.440
Identifying myself as a science fiction writer. I refused to

670
00:39:29.480 --> 00:39:32.719
call it horror. I only called it science fiction, which

671
00:39:32.760 --> 00:39:36.400
in retrospect is hilarious for anyone who's read The Phlebotomist.

672
00:39:37.400 --> 00:39:40.840
It was very horror adjacent. But what happened was I

673
00:39:40.880 --> 00:39:44.639
wrote The Bottomist and then I wrote Stringers, which is straight, hard,

674
00:39:44.920 --> 00:39:48.960
humorous sci fi. And it's kind of like in the

675
00:39:49.079 --> 00:39:55.000
vein of the Bob a Verse books, We are Legion,

676
00:39:55.079 --> 00:39:58.159
we Are Bob, which is which is so so awesome.

677
00:39:58.199 --> 00:40:02.079
I love those and it it's you know, that has

678
00:40:02.119 --> 00:40:05.360
hard science in it and humor and mind does too.

679
00:40:05.440 --> 00:40:10.639
It's less Hitchhiker's Guide, although it gets compared to Hitchhiker's

680
00:40:10.639 --> 00:40:13.519
God all the time, which only makes people mad when

681
00:40:13.519 --> 00:40:15.440
they read it and they go, this ain't Hitchhiker's God.

682
00:40:15.480 --> 00:40:21.880
I was promised Hitchhiker's GUD. But the pivot actually was

683
00:40:22.000 --> 00:40:25.800
predictable because as I was writing these novels, these science

684
00:40:25.800 --> 00:40:29.079
fiction novels, I was writing a lot of flash fiction

685
00:40:29.239 --> 00:40:33.480
and a lot of short fiction, and I did write

686
00:40:34.239 --> 00:40:39.920
a handful of straight science fiction stories, but everything started

687
00:40:40.000 --> 00:40:46.360
to curve towards horror everything I wrote, because while I

688
00:40:46.480 --> 00:40:52.239
also have a love of you know, that awe and

689
00:40:52.239 --> 00:40:56.760
that wonder that I get from science, I also love

690
00:40:56.920 --> 00:41:00.039
the feeling of on wondering what is going on? I

691
00:41:00.119 --> 00:41:03.639
get from horror. And as it turns out, a lot

692
00:41:03.679 --> 00:41:06.719
of the short fiction I was writing was really focused

693
00:41:06.800 --> 00:41:12.480
on human nature, and I don't have the brightest view

694
00:41:12.639 --> 00:41:19.079
of human nature necessarily as a whole, So I tended

695
00:41:19.119 --> 00:41:23.360
to be telling stories of humans doing horrific things, and

696
00:41:23.400 --> 00:41:28.039
it just sort of made sense. And then the first

697
00:41:28.800 --> 00:41:31.199
full fledged horror novel I wrote was The Redemption of

698
00:41:31.239 --> 00:41:35.280
Morgan Bright last year and everything I've written since then.

699
00:41:35.320 --> 00:41:41.119
I'm still exploring that. But I will say that my

700
00:41:41.320 --> 00:41:47.880
love of you know, cosmology and astrophysics and all of

701
00:41:47.920 --> 00:41:53.039
that has never waned a bit. And I have some

702
00:41:53.519 --> 00:41:58.400
ideas for some cross sectional stuff of horror and sci

703
00:41:58.440 --> 00:41:59.440
fi that would.

704
00:41:59.280 --> 00:42:03.280
Be awesome because I'm a huge fan of astrophysics myself.

705
00:42:03.760 --> 00:42:07.320
I don't I don't like understand a lot of it,

706
00:42:07.360 --> 00:42:09.159
Like it's hard to wrap your head around. And even

707
00:42:09.239 --> 00:42:14.000
the astrophysicists physicists themselves, they'll be like, yeah, we went

708
00:42:14.039 --> 00:42:16.039
to school for like ten years and we still don't

709
00:42:16.119 --> 00:42:19.320
understand it either, but this is what it is, right, like, yeah,

710
00:42:19.360 --> 00:42:22.679
holes and stuff like that, and yeah, but I find

711
00:42:22.719 --> 00:42:28.199
space and the reality of what we're living in because

712
00:42:28.239 --> 00:42:31.199
we're so very tiny. Our atmosphere is like a sheet

713
00:42:31.199 --> 00:42:37.039
of paper on a you know, a watermelon. It's terrifying. Yes,

714
00:42:37.519 --> 00:42:41.719
it's absolutely terrifying because we're phenomenally basically we.

715
00:42:41.719 --> 00:42:45.559
Can't our brains can't fathom it. If we could, they

716
00:42:45.559 --> 00:42:49.320
would explode. Yeah, you know, I mean when I see

717
00:42:50.159 --> 00:42:54.039
when I see, you know, new stuff come out about

718
00:42:54.199 --> 00:42:56.880
Sagittarius A right, the big black hole at the center

719
00:42:56.920 --> 00:43:00.119
of our galaxy. I just like freak out, man, And

720
00:43:00.159 --> 00:43:02.679
then people will be like, oh, yeah, well, here's this

721
00:43:02.719 --> 00:43:06.239
other black hole that can fit you know, six billion

722
00:43:06.400 --> 00:43:10.840
Sagittarius A's inside of it, you know, And I'm like, ah.

723
00:43:10.239 --> 00:43:14.480
So yeah. The idea of these gigantic black holes terrifies

724
00:43:14.519 --> 00:43:17.519
me the most because oh my god, like they could

725
00:43:17.599 --> 00:43:19.360
just tear us apart if it got too close.

726
00:43:20.280 --> 00:43:24.039
Yeah. Absolutely, I mean, it's just it's amazing. And you know,

727
00:43:24.199 --> 00:43:27.880
I mean, look, Alien is a horror movie, but it's

728
00:43:28.079 --> 00:43:32.280
it's out of space and it's fairly well grounded. Yeah.

729
00:43:32.360 --> 00:43:35.719
So yeah, so I'm with you. I think that I

730
00:43:35.760 --> 00:43:40.760
think that it's inevitable that I will do something space related,

731
00:43:41.239 --> 00:43:42.760
but with a horror.

732
00:43:42.360 --> 00:43:45.519
Angle that would be great. The one thing you could

733
00:43:46.039 --> 00:43:48.679
you could do is another nightmare that I get. And

734
00:43:48.679 --> 00:43:52.159
this one is something I experience every so often, Like

735
00:43:52.280 --> 00:43:56.000
it's a what do you call those recurring reoccurring dreams? Right,

736
00:43:56.519 --> 00:43:59.000
this is a reoccurring nightmare, and this one I don't enjoy,

737
00:43:59.039 --> 00:44:00.800
and I wake up in a bad mood. But I

738
00:44:00.960 --> 00:44:04.000
you know that Twilight Zone episode where the Earth is

739
00:44:04.559 --> 00:44:08.599
kind of flung out of the Solar System and as

740
00:44:08.639 --> 00:44:12.760
it's like, as it loses its rotation around the Sun,

741
00:44:13.599 --> 00:44:15.800
they get colder and colder, but then they learn that

742
00:44:15.880 --> 00:44:18.199
it's it wasn't that way at all. It's either that

743
00:44:18.360 --> 00:44:19.119
or vice versa.

744
00:44:19.199 --> 00:44:23.159
Right, But yeah, I that one. I mean, I mean,

745
00:44:23.199 --> 00:44:26.280
that's so that's so such a distant memory for me

746
00:44:26.400 --> 00:44:30.679
because I was watching Twilight Zone when I could, because

747
00:44:30.679 --> 00:44:32.559
my parents were kind of strict on what I could watch,

748
00:44:33.559 --> 00:44:36.119
you know, sneaking downstairs and turning on the TV and

749
00:44:36.159 --> 00:44:39.320
seeing that, And what's the other one? There's another one

750
00:44:39.639 --> 00:44:41.400
I forget the name of it. Or I would watch

751
00:44:41.400 --> 00:44:44.639
on HBO to watch you know, the Crip Keeper and

752
00:44:44.679 --> 00:44:46.960
all of that. Oh yeah, yeah, but yeah, I mean

753
00:44:46.960 --> 00:44:49.119
I vaguely recall that one. Yeah, but I.

754
00:44:49.440 --> 00:44:52.159
Have a dream where where the Earth is ejected from

755
00:44:52.199 --> 00:44:54.760
the Solar system, and often I'm looking up at the

756
00:44:54.800 --> 00:44:58.199
sky and you can see like Jupiter or Saturn, and

757
00:44:58.239 --> 00:45:02.239
we're getting colder and we're slowly dying. And that dream,

758
00:45:02.320 --> 00:45:05.000
like I said, is just terrifying. And that's an honest

759
00:45:05.000 --> 00:45:07.920
to God fear of mine, because it happens. The planets

760
00:45:07.960 --> 00:45:09.519
do get ejected from their solar system.

761
00:45:09.559 --> 00:45:12.760
Sure, if something disrupts their orbit, right, like that big

762
00:45:12.800 --> 00:45:18.199
object that's coming into our solar system that Harvard scientists

763
00:45:18.280 --> 00:45:21.159
say could be an alien probe who knows, right, could

764
00:45:21.199 --> 00:45:23.360
throw off our orbit. But I have two things for

765
00:45:23.440 --> 00:45:27.159
you then. So one is, you know, there's this other

766
00:45:27.400 --> 00:45:32.400
freaky idea that if the sun went out, right, we

767
00:45:32.440 --> 00:45:35.159
wouldn't know for eight minutes because of the speed of light. Right, Yeah,

768
00:45:35.400 --> 00:45:38.920
someone go out and gravity moves at the speed of light.

769
00:45:39.320 --> 00:45:43.159
So if the Sun disappeared, didn't turn into a black hole, disappeared,

770
00:45:43.559 --> 00:45:47.000
we would continue orbiting for eight minutes before we just

771
00:45:47.000 --> 00:45:50.159
went boop and like ejected from the Solar system. But

772
00:45:50.199 --> 00:45:53.320
the second thing is have you seen the movie Sunshine?

773
00:45:53.760 --> 00:45:56.920
Yes, it's a favorite. Oh my god, so good.

774
00:45:57.119 --> 00:46:01.159
Right, that's awesome. We're gonna relight the sun with the

775
00:46:01.280 --> 00:46:06.000
giant Adam Baum the size of Manhattan. It sounds dumber

776
00:46:06.039 --> 00:46:08.280
than it is. It's not dumb if you're listening the movie.

777
00:46:09.519 --> 00:46:12.840
It's more of an existential type thing because they're in space,

778
00:46:12.880 --> 00:46:17.239
but they're experiencing something that's hard to uh, it's it's

779
00:46:17.320 --> 00:46:20.800
kind of it goes into weird fiction, honestly.

780
00:46:20.599 --> 00:46:23.840
It does. There's some it's like it's kind of like

781
00:46:23.920 --> 00:46:27.760
hard sci fi but with gummies. Yeah, you know, but

782
00:46:27.840 --> 00:46:32.719
it it also tinges quite into horror, I think very much.

783
00:46:32.760 --> 00:46:34.280
So that's the reason why I watched it. I thought

784
00:46:34.280 --> 00:46:36.000
it was a horror movie, and I still, you know,

785
00:46:36.039 --> 00:46:38.880
I still consider it a horror movie. It's it's space horror.

786
00:46:39.159 --> 00:46:42.199
It's one of the best space horror movies it is.

787
00:46:42.599 --> 00:46:44.920
Now I'm gonna I'm gonna give you one more bit

788
00:46:44.960 --> 00:46:46.880
of information because you said yes on that. So we're

789
00:46:46.920 --> 00:46:49.679
proceeding to the next thing, which is there is a

790
00:46:49.719 --> 00:46:53.920
band called Vector v e K t O R.

791
00:46:54.599 --> 00:46:55.480
I think I know them.

792
00:46:55.760 --> 00:46:58.199
They have I think they're out of Philadelphia. I was

793
00:46:58.199 --> 00:47:02.079
listening to them the other day. They have a in fact,

794
00:47:02.199 --> 00:47:06.239
it's it's my current. I'm listening to Pillars of Sand

795
00:47:06.280 --> 00:47:10.480
by them. This album that's a song. But this album

796
00:47:11.000 --> 00:47:17.239
let Me Go to The album is about it is

797
00:47:17.679 --> 00:47:23.719
their soundtrack to Sunshine Oh that they it's not the soundtrack.

798
00:47:24.000 --> 00:47:31.239
It's there and the album is called oh yeah, Terminal Reducts,

799
00:47:33.119 --> 00:47:35.360
and there's a song on there called Charging the Void,

800
00:47:35.400 --> 00:47:38.199
which is literally about recharging the sun.

801
00:47:40.079 --> 00:47:40.320
Yeah.

802
00:47:40.360 --> 00:47:43.559
So Vector man V E K t O R. So

803
00:47:43.559 --> 00:47:45.480
they got here, all right?

804
00:47:45.599 --> 00:47:48.239
Yes, I'm going to listen to it once this is done, because.

805
00:47:48.079 --> 00:47:52.039
Yeah, awesome. Well, and that album is a it's a

806
00:47:52.280 --> 00:47:54.639
you know, it's it's a story. The whole album is

807
00:47:54.800 --> 00:47:57.679
one thing. It's not just individual songs about sunshine. The

808
00:47:57.719 --> 00:48:02.199
whole thing is about sunshine. There you go, Here we go.

809
00:48:02.360 --> 00:48:03.360
We connected up on that.

810
00:48:03.679 --> 00:48:06.960
We absolutely did, man like. It's a it's an incredibly

811
00:48:07.159 --> 00:48:11.519
interesting and it's never gonna stop causing awe within my

812
00:48:11.559 --> 00:48:14.599
own brain because amazing. Yeah, we can't know it all,

813
00:48:14.760 --> 00:48:16.880
and I think that's part of what awe is when

814
00:48:16.920 --> 00:48:20.920
you don't understand exactly what you're seeing or experiencing or

815
00:48:21.400 --> 00:48:22.039
learning about.

816
00:48:22.320 --> 00:48:24.360
Yeah, it's one of the greatest gifts we have as

817
00:48:24.440 --> 00:48:27.239
human beings who can perceive things. Yeah, is to perceive

818
00:48:27.320 --> 00:48:30.360
something and not understand it is actually kind of amazing

819
00:48:31.559 --> 00:48:34.559
and to want to understand it. And that's why that's

820
00:48:34.599 --> 00:48:37.000
why I love sci fi and that's why I love

821
00:48:37.039 --> 00:48:40.360
horror so much. Is there's something in every sci fi novel,

822
00:48:40.400 --> 00:48:43.639
in every horror novel, there's something that you need to understand.

823
00:48:45.079 --> 00:48:49.760
Absolutely. So shit show, okay, yeah, we come around to

824
00:48:50.039 --> 00:48:52.239
we come around to shit Now you know what I

825
00:48:52.280 --> 00:48:55.000
was going to start this whole podcast off, and I

826
00:48:55.039 --> 00:48:57.039
totally forgot. I was going to say, well, this is

827
00:48:57.079 --> 00:49:00.960
going to be a complete and utter shit show. That's

828
00:49:01.039 --> 00:49:04.559
fair because you kind of have to write totally.

829
00:49:05.119 --> 00:49:07.679
You got to lean into the puns that the book allows, right,

830
00:49:07.840 --> 00:49:08.239
you got it.

831
00:49:11.000 --> 00:49:14.280
This is slated, like we're talking right now, it's August

832
00:49:14.360 --> 00:49:17.360
the twenty third, and this is slated for an early

833
00:49:17.400 --> 00:49:18.840
September release, right.

834
00:49:18.760 --> 00:49:21.159
That's right, September. Second from so below books.

835
00:49:21.440 --> 00:49:26.360
Nice and now. I like that title. It's not too

836
00:49:26.400 --> 00:49:29.719
often in fiction, like in nonfiction there, especially in the

837
00:49:29.719 --> 00:49:32.760
self help category, there was a lot of swearing in

838
00:49:33.559 --> 00:49:37.360
some of those titles. Mark Manson looking at you, I mean,

839
00:49:37.400 --> 00:49:38.440
who gives a fuck? Right?

840
00:49:38.679 --> 00:49:41.639
Yeah?

841
00:49:41.719 --> 00:49:44.480
So I was wondering was shit Show always your working

842
00:49:44.519 --> 00:49:46.239
title or did you just kind of come to it

843
00:49:46.280 --> 00:49:46.960
as you were writing?

844
00:49:47.679 --> 00:49:50.800
Well, it went back and forth. The first one was

845
00:49:50.840 --> 00:49:54.440
the original idea. I had the premise, or not the premise,

846
00:49:54.480 --> 00:49:59.360
but the conceit, which was Portal Body part right, and

847
00:49:59.400 --> 00:50:01.480
I was like, well, well, you know that's kind of

848
00:50:01.519 --> 00:50:05.719
the central Uh, that's the way shit happens in the

849
00:50:05.760 --> 00:50:10.360
book literally, And then but then you know, I'm looking

850
00:50:10.400 --> 00:50:14.079
around and as an author you. You do have to

851
00:50:14.199 --> 00:50:19.199
kind of pay attention to what what other people are doing,

852
00:50:19.360 --> 00:50:21.239
kind of what works and what doesn't seem to work.

853
00:50:21.280 --> 00:50:25.199
And there's no clear formula to it. But one thing

854
00:50:25.239 --> 00:50:29.159
I have noticed is that, you know, if you can

855
00:50:29.360 --> 00:50:33.519
use a popular phrase or something like that word or

856
00:50:33.559 --> 00:50:40.159
phrase that people all people understand, it might work for

857
00:50:40.199 --> 00:50:43.039
a title. And I was like, well, I'm telling a

858
00:50:43.119 --> 00:50:48.360
story about you know, these portal potties and uh. And

859
00:50:48.480 --> 00:50:51.840
once I had figured out what the story was and

860
00:50:52.320 --> 00:50:55.960
making those portal potties make sense not just something I

861
00:50:56.039 --> 00:50:58.800
dropped in, I was like, I think it's shit show.

862
00:50:59.400 --> 00:51:06.519
And uh. I remember asking Max Booth. I said, we

863
00:51:06.519 --> 00:51:10.960
were at an event together and I said, hey, if

864
00:51:11.000 --> 00:51:14.800
you had a book and you could choose between portal

865
00:51:14.840 --> 00:51:17.760
potty and shit show, which one would you choose? And

866
00:51:17.800 --> 00:51:22.400
they were like, shit show, Like it's not even yeah,

867
00:51:22.440 --> 00:51:25.519
like shut up, it's shit show. And the other piece

868
00:51:25.639 --> 00:51:27.679
is that somewhat eventually was going to write a book

869
00:51:27.679 --> 00:51:30.920
called shit show. And I've got the premise it should

870
00:51:30.920 --> 00:51:31.880
be me. I want to do it.

871
00:51:31.960 --> 00:51:36.440
You just had you had to take it to take it. Sorry, yeah, absolutely, yeah,

872
00:51:36.800 --> 00:51:38.639
So can you tell us what shit show is? About

873
00:51:38.960 --> 00:51:39.360
you bet.

874
00:51:39.440 --> 00:51:43.880
So, the short kind of one sentence, if I had

875
00:51:43.920 --> 00:51:47.440
five seconds, is it's a latrine technician versus a dark carnival.

876
00:51:47.840 --> 00:51:50.639
And if that, you know, if that piets your interests, great,

877
00:51:51.119 --> 00:51:56.440
But the sort of back cover copy version is that, uh,

878
00:51:57.519 --> 00:52:01.880
Sunday McCord is an older guy. He's in his fifties.

879
00:52:02.000 --> 00:52:05.480
He takes care of his mother in their trailer park,

880
00:52:05.880 --> 00:52:09.320
who is suffering from dementia. He needed a job with

881
00:52:10.599 --> 00:52:16.119
flexible hours in a company vehicle, and the sanitation company

882
00:52:16.199 --> 00:52:19.400
was hiring. So that's the job he's got. And he

883
00:52:19.519 --> 00:52:22.360
drives around a honeywagon, which is literally what they call

884
00:52:22.480 --> 00:52:26.599
those cars. The trucks with the tanks that sucks shit

885
00:52:26.880 --> 00:52:32.480
out of porta potties are called honey wagons. Is amazing,

886
00:52:33.079 --> 00:52:37.679
and so he drives around. He does the job, it's

887
00:52:37.679 --> 00:52:42.719
what he's got to do. And around Autumn County Fair

888
00:52:42.920 --> 00:52:50.039
carnival season, he starts finding body parts in porta potties

889
00:52:50.400 --> 00:52:53.639
and people start going missing, and so he finds himself

890
00:52:53.719 --> 00:52:56.559
at the center of what is it? Is it a

891
00:52:56.599 --> 00:53:00.320
serial killer? Is that a human trafficking ring? Is it

892
00:53:00.880 --> 00:53:03.760
a tussle between worlds? Well, you know, you got to

893
00:53:03.800 --> 00:53:04.920
read the book to find now.

894
00:53:06.679 --> 00:53:08.719
I want to thank you for sending me an e arc.

895
00:53:09.360 --> 00:53:11.880
I had no idea what to like. It's called shit show,

896
00:53:11.880 --> 00:53:13.880
and I knew it had something to do with Porta Potti's,

897
00:53:13.920 --> 00:53:17.519
but that was about it, and so I didn't know

898
00:53:17.559 --> 00:53:21.039
what to expect. And it was quite the ride. Man.

899
00:53:21.199 --> 00:53:23.360
I absolutely loved it. It's so much fun to read.

900
00:53:24.079 --> 00:53:27.519
I did not expect the quirky sense of humor. I

901
00:53:27.559 --> 00:53:32.239
found myself like, your intrusive thoughts must be friends with

902
00:53:32.280 --> 00:53:36.079
my own intrusive thoughts. Because because the things that happened

903
00:53:36.079 --> 00:53:40.159
in this book, just the situations that you know, the

904
00:53:40.199 --> 00:53:46.000
main character, Sunday puts himself, Oh my god, it's crazy.

905
00:53:46.199 --> 00:53:47.360
It's absolutely crazy.

906
00:53:47.559 --> 00:53:48.760
I'm glad you enjoyed it.

907
00:53:49.000 --> 00:53:51.159
But I have to wonder, and you know, I know

908
00:53:51.239 --> 00:53:56.119
people hate this question, but I'm always curious about how

909
00:53:56.519 --> 00:54:01.079
things begin. So where did this idea for this story

910
00:54:01.119 --> 00:54:04.679
come from? Because it and how did it grow?

911
00:54:04.920 --> 00:54:05.039
Like?

912
00:54:05.119 --> 00:54:11.039
What was the very first kernel that you're likety?

913
00:54:10.440 --> 00:54:15.440
No? Yeah, well great, great question. So the short short

914
00:54:15.519 --> 00:54:17.719
answer is, I was riding my bike around the lake.

915
00:54:17.960 --> 00:54:21.159
I saw a porta potty and I'm always thinking, I'm

916
00:54:21.159 --> 00:54:24.599
always like huh, and I went portal potty, So that

917
00:54:24.800 --> 00:54:30.000
was truly the nugget, right, And then I think I

918
00:54:30.079 --> 00:54:33.519
was between books. I had a little time, and I

919
00:54:33.599 --> 00:54:36.079
was like, you know, I'd been looking for something, for

920
00:54:37.159 --> 00:54:42.480
something to spark my creativity to write a novella. I

921
00:54:42.519 --> 00:54:44.440
was like, I want to write something short. Now. This

922
00:54:44.480 --> 00:54:46.360
book turned out to be a novel. It's a very

923
00:54:46.400 --> 00:54:51.239
short novel by you know, word count standards. It's forty

924
00:54:51.280 --> 00:54:54.199
three thousand, which puts it three thousand over novella. But

925
00:54:54.239 --> 00:54:58.800
it's a short, very short novel. And so I was

926
00:54:58.800 --> 00:55:02.840
thinking about it. I was like, okay, so how would

927
00:55:02.880 --> 00:55:06.639
I build? What kind of story would I tell where

928
00:55:06.679 --> 00:55:12.639
people were using porta potties as portals? The concept itself

929
00:55:12.679 --> 00:55:17.079
is very funny, so I want I wanted it. I

930
00:55:17.119 --> 00:55:20.400
wanted to continue with that and go, okay, what what

931
00:55:20.679 --> 00:55:26.480
settings do we have that lend themselves to humor, adventure

932
00:55:26.679 --> 00:55:32.119
fun where we find porta potties? And I was like, well, carnivals.

933
00:55:33.159 --> 00:55:35.639
And then I was like, okay, well this is definitely

934
00:55:35.639 --> 00:55:41.920
a horror story. Carnivals can go dark real fast. And

935
00:55:41.960 --> 00:55:44.039
then it just flowed very easily from there, because then

936
00:55:44.039 --> 00:55:47.719
I was like, all right, who's my main character, Well,

937
00:55:48.079 --> 00:55:50.840
it's got to be the guy who maintains the porta potties.

938
00:55:53.159 --> 00:55:59.480
I want. I want someone who understands the workings of

939
00:55:59.519 --> 00:56:02.960
these things that can then navigate this world. And it's

940
00:56:03.000 --> 00:56:06.639
also the total fish out of water scenario, right, which

941
00:56:06.679 --> 00:56:12.760
is always right for comedy and and conflict. So you know,

942
00:56:12.920 --> 00:56:17.719
he's he's in his world with the porta potties themselves,

943
00:56:17.719 --> 00:56:23.960
but where they take him he's completely unprepared for and

944
00:56:24.559 --> 00:56:28.119
he tries to but it just keeps getting worse and worse.

945
00:56:29.320 --> 00:56:32.159
And so that's really how it started. And then I

946
00:56:32.280 --> 00:56:36.960
needed I needed to go, well, where are these portal

947
00:56:37.000 --> 00:56:41.119
potties going? Where are these portals going? And that's where

948
00:56:41.159 --> 00:56:44.360
I got the idea for the Dark Kernival. And from there,

949
00:56:45.840 --> 00:56:50.440
I'm all about a funny joke. I'm all about humorous stories,

950
00:56:51.400 --> 00:56:54.000
but to me, they ring really, really hollow and kind

951
00:56:54.039 --> 00:56:56.000
of cheap if that's all it is. If it's just

952
00:56:56.079 --> 00:56:59.679
a string of jokes that even me and I love

953
00:56:59.719 --> 00:57:02.480
a good, you know, fart joke. You could do far

954
00:57:02.599 --> 00:57:05.519
jokes all day and I'll probably laugh at them all day. Yeah,

955
00:57:05.639 --> 00:57:08.159
But in a book, I want to feel more than that,

956
00:57:08.480 --> 00:57:10.800
and so I really wanted to ground it. I wanted

957
00:57:10.840 --> 00:57:15.519
an emotional center for this story centering around something that

958
00:57:15.519 --> 00:57:18.559
scares the hell out of me, which is dementia. And

959
00:57:18.639 --> 00:57:21.719
I wanted to tell a real story inside this kind

960
00:57:21.800 --> 00:57:25.519
of funny veneer. So that was my goal to answer

961
00:57:25.559 --> 00:57:26.039
your question.

962
00:57:26.880 --> 00:57:32.519
Yeah, you mentioned that dementia is a real fear of yours,

963
00:57:33.480 --> 00:57:35.599
and I was wondering if this is another angle of

964
00:57:35.599 --> 00:57:37.800
why you write horror? Is it too, because a lot

965
00:57:37.840 --> 00:57:41.519
of horror horror writers have mentioned that writing horror is

966
00:57:41.639 --> 00:57:44.039
very cathartic, but it can also be healing of the

967
00:57:44.079 --> 00:57:47.280
things that you fear. So do you tend to have

968
00:57:47.360 --> 00:57:51.599
you found, at least writing horror a way to confront

969
00:57:51.760 --> 00:57:52.559
the things you fear?

970
00:57:53.639 --> 00:58:01.960
Absolutely? Absolutely, I absolutely have from things that I fear

971
00:58:02.119 --> 00:58:06.199
in my life, like you know, things like dementia where

972
00:58:06.280 --> 00:58:09.840
your mind unravels and you know it. You know, that's

973
00:58:10.280 --> 00:58:13.920
utterly terrifying to me. I have another another novel half

974
00:58:14.000 --> 00:58:17.559
written about a father and daughter. I've got a little girl,

975
00:58:17.719 --> 00:58:21.280
you know. The last one I wrote, the Redemption of

976
00:58:21.320 --> 00:58:27.079
Morgan Bright, was a different angle and mental illness, one

977
00:58:27.119 --> 00:58:34.480
dealing with you know, psychosis and et cetera, uh D,

978
00:58:34.639 --> 00:58:37.880
I D. You know, multiple personalities that used to be

979
00:58:37.920 --> 00:58:45.760
called and that's something all of those things, the loss

980
00:58:45.760 --> 00:58:47.480
of control I think it was, is what it comes

981
00:58:47.519 --> 00:58:53.199
down to. Probably U are things that I explore. Those

982
00:58:53.239 --> 00:58:54.920
are the things that are scariest to me. And to

983
00:58:54.960 --> 00:58:59.920
answer your question, yes, they writing these stories actually helped

984
00:59:00.440 --> 00:59:03.800
exploring it instead of it being a total mystery to me.

985
00:59:04.719 --> 00:59:07.760
In writing these stories, that is an ex that is

986
00:59:07.800 --> 00:59:11.880
an exploration. And when you explore something and you you

987
00:59:11.960 --> 00:59:15.440
turn the light on and you see it, I think

988
00:59:15.800 --> 00:59:18.559
it's almost always going to be less terrifying than if

989
00:59:18.559 --> 00:59:20.199
it's just a shadow of the dark.

990
00:59:20.920 --> 00:59:22.119
Absolutely, that's what.

991
00:59:22.000 --> 00:59:23.800
It is for me. So that's a great question.

992
00:59:24.039 --> 00:59:27.280
Yeah, yeah, I like it for that as well. I

993
00:59:27.639 --> 00:59:30.679
just recently, like you, you wrote a story about father

994
00:59:30.760 --> 00:59:33.639
and daughter, I wrote a son about uh or I

995
00:59:33.679 --> 00:59:37.000
wrote a story about father and son recently. It's a

996
00:59:37.039 --> 00:59:41.760
novella as well, I published. But it helped me confront

997
00:59:41.800 --> 00:59:47.920
something that I fear massively. And it doesn't if it

998
00:59:47.960 --> 00:59:50.320
were still to happen, it wouldn't. It wouldn't make it

999
00:59:50.360 --> 00:59:54.039
any easier still, but but it at least let me

1000
00:59:54.079 --> 00:59:56.880
look at it through a different lens of healing, the

1001
00:59:56.920 --> 01:00:00.199
possibility of healing, instead of me saying if if that

1002
01:00:00.199 --> 01:00:02.239
were to happen, I'm just gonna drink myself to death,

1003
01:00:02.559 --> 01:00:06.599
you know, instead I might have an avenue to heal.

1004
01:00:07.159 --> 01:00:09.920
But yeah, so yeah, it's totally yeah, I get it.

1005
01:00:10.199 --> 01:00:12.199
I mean it's kind of like, have you seen the movie?

1006
01:00:12.239 --> 01:00:15.880
I am like people, people probably think I was paid

1007
01:00:15.960 --> 01:00:20.599
by the movie makers to like talk NonStop about this movie.

1008
01:00:20.760 --> 01:00:22.440
But have you seen the movie Bring Her Back?

1009
01:00:22.960 --> 01:00:24.800
Bring Her Back? No? I haven't seen that yet.

1010
01:00:24.880 --> 01:00:26.239
So did you see Talk to Me?

1011
01:00:26.880 --> 01:00:29.400
I did see that one, but it's.

1012
01:00:28.920 --> 01:00:32.440
This it's those I think the Brothers. It's the same

1013
01:00:32.599 --> 01:00:34.000
guys who directed Talk to Me.

1014
01:00:34.280 --> 01:00:35.360
I've heard of that movie.

1015
01:00:35.440 --> 01:00:39.119
Yeah, yeah, so bring Her Back? I love Talk to Me.

1016
01:00:39.719 --> 01:00:42.920
I honestly thought it could have gone harder. Well, it

1017
01:00:43.079 --> 01:00:45.280
was as if they heard me, because Bring Her Back

1018
01:00:45.440 --> 01:00:50.239
is like, oh my god, it's it's bleak, but it's

1019
01:00:50.280 --> 01:00:56.199
also so good. But it's a big, like grief for movie.

1020
01:00:56.280 --> 01:00:59.559
So that was released just this year, right, that's right.

1021
01:01:00.000 --> 01:01:04.760
I know if it's streaming yet.

1022
01:01:03.320 --> 01:01:05.800
I don't, but I would guess it probably is.

1023
01:01:05.880 --> 01:01:07.639
It's been it's been a while.

1024
01:01:07.480 --> 01:01:11.840
Six months maybe maybe maybe four months since it came out,

1025
01:01:12.079 --> 01:01:14.639
but it's still I think it's still in theaters in

1026
01:01:14.760 --> 01:01:17.960
like in like the UK, or they just had it

1027
01:01:18.000 --> 01:01:20.639
in theaters. So I don't know when streaming decides to start,

1028
01:01:20.800 --> 01:01:23.760
but that's a big like put it at the top

1029
01:01:23.840 --> 01:01:27.039
of the to be watched list. It's fantastic.

1030
01:01:27.519 --> 01:01:29.639
Yeah, I'm definitely gonna check that out. I'm glad you

1031
01:01:29.840 --> 01:01:33.039
mentioned that because I remember hearing about that movie and

1032
01:01:33.119 --> 01:01:35.119
hearing how good it was, and I was like, oh,

1033
01:01:35.159 --> 01:01:37.039
I got to watch it, but then I forgot all

1034
01:01:37.039 --> 01:01:38.920
about it. Like when you brought it up, I didn't

1035
01:01:38.920 --> 01:01:41.360
even really recognize the name. But as you were talking,

1036
01:01:41.400 --> 01:01:42.800
I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I heard that after

1037
01:01:43.039 --> 01:01:45.880
that movie. Yeah, now it's like right back on my radar.

1038
01:01:46.000 --> 01:01:50.159
So, and there's a website that is in the movie.

1039
01:01:50.679 --> 01:01:56.800
Go to the website after the movie. That'll that if

1040
01:01:56.880 --> 01:01:59.800
you if you want to make sure you stay up

1041
01:01:59.840 --> 01:02:02.280
that night, go to the go to the website.

1042
01:02:02.519 --> 01:02:06.119
Okay, I could use a sleepless night there you go, Yeah,

1043
01:02:06.159 --> 01:02:10.280
we all could. So one thing that really popped for

1044
01:02:10.360 --> 01:02:13.079
me and what made well, of course, what made the

1045
01:02:13.079 --> 01:02:17.440
story funny and emotional, And I'm going to remember this

1046
01:02:17.519 --> 01:02:21.400
story for a while is because of the characters, Miss

1047
01:02:21.440 --> 01:02:25.360
Miss Poppy. She was highly entertaining. I love it.

1048
01:02:25.440 --> 01:02:28.360
I love Miss Poppy, And so I was wondering, how.

1049
01:02:28.239 --> 01:02:31.800
Do you develop characters while you're writing, because that's not

1050
01:02:31.880 --> 01:02:34.199
always easy to come up with characteristic and to stick

1051
01:02:34.239 --> 01:02:36.159
to it through the whole story.

1052
01:02:36.239 --> 01:02:39.599
You know, sometimes I think that you start writing a

1053
01:02:39.599 --> 01:02:43.199
story and you're kind of writing with these cardboard characters

1054
01:02:43.280 --> 01:02:46.079
until you really know who they are. That's how I

1055
01:02:46.119 --> 01:02:49.159
write anyway. A lot of folks I know will come

1056
01:02:49.239 --> 01:02:51.000
up with their characters ahead of time before they even

1057
01:02:51.000 --> 01:02:54.360
start writing, and figure out who they are, what they wear,

1058
01:02:54.400 --> 01:02:56.480
and what they look like, and what their hobbies are.

1059
01:02:56.519 --> 01:03:01.599
And I don't do that. I kind of stumble through

1060
01:03:01.639 --> 01:03:06.000
the first, you know, couple of chapters and see how

1061
01:03:06.039 --> 01:03:08.960
I see the tone of the story that I want,

1062
01:03:09.159 --> 01:03:12.079
And sometimes that tone will dictate the type of characters

1063
01:03:12.119 --> 01:03:16.320
I have, and they will slowly gain flesh as the

1064
01:03:16.360 --> 01:03:19.199
story goes on, and then by the end of the story,

1065
01:03:19.480 --> 01:03:21.679
by the end of the first draft, what I have

1066
01:03:21.880 --> 01:03:25.400
is I know what the story is and I know

1067
01:03:25.400 --> 01:03:27.320
who the characters are, and now I can go back

1068
01:03:27.880 --> 01:03:33.559
and then revisions make them that right, really flesh them out.

1069
01:03:33.800 --> 01:03:37.679
But someone like miss Poppy, I kind of wanted a

1070
01:03:37.760 --> 01:03:43.000
foil for Sunday. Sunday as funny as the things are

1071
01:03:43.079 --> 01:03:46.079
that happened, and he's kind of a straight man, you know.

1072
01:03:47.039 --> 01:03:49.000
That's kind of what makes it funny though, is like

1073
01:03:49.079 --> 01:03:52.840
he's doing these absurd things, but he's doing it because

1074
01:03:52.840 --> 01:03:55.199
he's rationalized, this is what I have to do, and

1075
01:03:55.239 --> 01:03:58.320
it's just the way it is. But you're like looking

1076
01:03:58.360 --> 01:04:00.840
at it from outside of the box seeing what he's doing,

1077
01:04:00.880 --> 01:04:03.960
like putting on the scuba gear for right, and you're

1078
01:04:04.000 --> 01:04:06.679
just like, oh my god, this is this is crazy.

1079
01:04:06.519 --> 01:04:08.599
Because what would you do? And that's that's the thing

1080
01:04:08.599 --> 01:04:11.519
about Sunday. It is like, Okay, well, if I have

1081
01:04:11.599 --> 01:04:15.119
to go into this, you know, this shitter, maybe I

1082
01:04:15.199 --> 01:04:19.880
should wear something like very logical. It's very logical, like

1083
01:04:19.920 --> 01:04:23.800
what would you do? And I think that early on

1084
01:04:24.599 --> 01:04:27.320
it was weighing kind of heavy because it was just

1085
01:04:29.360 --> 01:04:33.920
he and his mother and she's definitely not comedy relief,

1086
01:04:34.079 --> 01:04:37.480
Like what's going on with her is very heavy, and

1087
01:04:37.519 --> 01:04:41.880
so I think intuitively I knew as soon as I

1088
01:04:41.920 --> 01:04:44.480
introduced because there's a prologue and then there's a first

1089
01:04:44.559 --> 01:04:48.760
chapter with with he and his mother, and I knew

1090
01:04:48.960 --> 01:04:50.960
as soon as I was done with that breakfast scene,

1091
01:04:51.000 --> 01:04:53.719
I was like, I need some levity. And you go

1092
01:04:53.800 --> 01:04:57.079
outside and you meet Miss Poppy, and I think I

1093
01:04:57.159 --> 01:05:00.440
think she showed up right there because I I knew,

1094
01:05:00.840 --> 01:05:04.840
I knew I needed some levity in this other character.

1095
01:05:05.000 --> 01:05:09.159
So she just she popped up to use a pun.

1096
01:05:09.719 --> 01:05:17.559
Yeah, oh man like uh from the son's fear or

1097
01:05:17.639 --> 01:05:20.679
not fear, but his his love for his mom and

1098
01:05:20.760 --> 01:05:23.320
him trying to just take care of her, try to

1099
01:05:23.320 --> 01:05:28.159
get her home to Miss Poppy and her sort of

1100
01:05:28.400 --> 01:05:32.519
crazy outland, just like she's there to help, right, Yeah,

1101
01:05:32.639 --> 01:05:36.320
she's she's she's like your your good friend, but she's

1102
01:05:36.360 --> 01:05:37.599
got like some issues.

1103
01:05:38.199 --> 01:05:42.360
Yeah, I mean that Miss Poppy is. And I have

1104
01:05:42.400 --> 01:05:45.320
a friend who is like Miss Poppy who I've had

1105
01:05:45.360 --> 01:05:48.840
for a long time. And this friend of mine would

1106
01:05:49.639 --> 01:05:53.079
lay down on traffic for you no matter what. And

1107
01:05:53.400 --> 01:05:55.599
I've known her for a long time, and maybe I

1108
01:05:55.639 --> 01:05:58.960
was channeling a little bit of her with Miss Poppy,

1109
01:05:59.039 --> 01:06:01.559
and that Miss Poppy is not gonna ask questions that

1110
01:06:01.719 --> 01:06:05.880
she might say, where's the fireball? You know, where's my

1111
01:06:05.960 --> 01:06:09.960
flavored cigars. But other than that, she's she's gonna do

1112
01:06:10.039 --> 01:06:14.360
whatever it takes for her friends, people she cares about.

1113
01:06:14.760 --> 01:06:18.159
And she's got a little bit of a backstory which

1114
01:06:18.159 --> 01:06:23.000
helps you understand why she's like that now because she

1115
01:06:23.119 --> 01:06:26.320
has some she has some flaws too, but yeah, she

1116
01:06:26.519 --> 01:06:29.039
she's just one of those people. And I think most

1117
01:06:29.119 --> 01:06:33.400
of us know someone like that. It's not super common

1118
01:06:33.519 --> 01:06:36.079
where you have someone who is you know, you hear

1119
01:06:36.079 --> 01:06:42.960
about unconditional love, but I think that unconditional friendship is

1120
01:06:44.000 --> 01:06:49.440
is probably more realistic, you know, and might even be

1121
01:06:49.519 --> 01:06:53.519
stronger than this imaginary idea of unconditional love, I mean,

1122
01:06:53.599 --> 01:06:57.599
excluding what we feel for our children. Right. Yeah, absolutely,

1123
01:06:57.880 --> 01:07:00.639
this this sort of unconditional friendship is just Oh, it's

1124
01:07:00.639 --> 01:07:04.159
such a special thing. And I wanted to kind of

1125
01:07:04.159 --> 01:07:05.639
capture that with Miss Poppy.

1126
01:07:06.920 --> 01:07:09.960
What do you hope readers will take away from reading shit?

1127
01:07:10.039 --> 01:07:13.400
So I hope they'll come away going I did not

1128
01:07:13.559 --> 01:07:19.480
expect that and that and that, Man, I have this

1129
01:07:20.320 --> 01:07:27.880
emotional this emotional pause when they when they finished the

1130
01:07:27.920 --> 01:07:30.840
book and that ending, I hope they have an emotional pause,

1131
01:07:30.880 --> 01:07:35.320
and I hope they feel good, even though the ending

1132
01:07:35.440 --> 01:07:39.599
is not one that is purely black and white. And

1133
01:07:39.679 --> 01:07:42.719
I hope that they go wow, I had fun with that.

1134
01:07:43.159 --> 01:07:45.320
It wasn't just a cheap ride. It wasn't a cheap

1135
01:07:45.360 --> 01:07:50.239
cernival ride to keep using puns or whatever metaphors. It

1136
01:07:50.280 --> 01:07:53.679
was a complete show. Yeah, it wasn't a complete shit show. No,

1137
01:07:55.159 --> 01:07:58.119
and just go wow. You know. I I hope if

1138
01:07:58.119 --> 01:08:00.199
the book works, I think people will walk away way

1139
01:08:00.599 --> 01:08:03.000
saying wow, that was a lot more than I than

1140
01:08:03.000 --> 01:08:05.920
I expected from a book called shit show. And I'm

1141
01:08:05.960 --> 01:08:08.119
glad I read it. That's what I hope people walk

1142
01:08:08.119 --> 01:08:08.679
away from.

1143
01:08:09.239 --> 01:08:11.159
Awesome. Well, I'm glad I read it. It was a

1144
01:08:11.199 --> 01:08:13.480
lot of fun with you and it made me feel

1145
01:08:13.559 --> 01:08:17.279
and it made me laugh. That's not easy to do, right,

1146
01:08:17.800 --> 01:08:23.119
I find actually, comedy in fiction isn't always easy to accomplish.

1147
01:08:23.439 --> 01:08:26.960
But yeah, you do it in such a way that

1148
01:08:27.199 --> 01:08:31.319
you're you're going through the motions and you can't help

1149
01:08:31.359 --> 01:08:34.520
but to laugh at what's going on because you're not saying, hey, hey, hey,

1150
01:08:34.720 --> 01:08:38.359
here's a joke. Okay, this is a joke. You're kind

1151
01:08:38.359 --> 01:08:41.520
of falling into the comedy and you just realize that

1152
01:08:41.600 --> 01:08:44.880
this this scene is kind of absurd, but is right,

1153
01:08:44.920 --> 01:08:46.640
and this is great and that's what and that's why

1154
01:08:46.640 --> 01:08:49.960
you start laughing and and yeah, I had a lot

1155
01:08:50.000 --> 01:08:50.319
of fun.

1156
01:08:50.760 --> 01:08:53.760
Thanks so much, I I think I think this is

1157
01:08:53.800 --> 01:08:57.399
the first book where I really kind of got out

1158
01:08:57.399 --> 01:08:59.640
of my head a little bit, and I was trying

1159
01:08:59.680 --> 01:09:03.039
to tell just a straightforward story. I wasn't trying to

1160
01:09:03.039 --> 01:09:06.039
do any gymnastics. I wasn't trying to pop your head

1161
01:09:06.079 --> 01:09:10.560
off ten times with crazy twists, because I do. I

1162
01:09:10.680 --> 01:09:13.399
like a good twist, I really do, and I'm always

1163
01:09:13.439 --> 01:09:15.680
trying to do it. And there's some small ones in this,

1164
01:09:15.760 --> 01:09:21.359
but mostly you're getting a linear story and maybe that's

1165
01:09:21.439 --> 01:09:26.560
why it's so easy to digest and just fun. And

1166
01:09:26.600 --> 01:09:28.960
I think you could soak up everything I'm doing without

1167
01:09:29.000 --> 01:09:30.800
having to like go what is he doing?

1168
01:09:32.600 --> 01:09:35.840
Absolutely So before we go, I'm going to ask you

1169
01:09:35.880 --> 01:09:37.800
a question that I ask all my guests.

1170
01:09:38.680 --> 01:09:39.279
Let's do it.

1171
01:09:40.039 --> 01:09:43.800
Are there any authors that you love reading but you

1172
01:09:43.920 --> 01:09:47.119
wish more people were talking about on social media?

1173
01:09:48.079 --> 01:09:53.520
Okay, this is great, because yes there are. So the

1174
01:09:53.680 --> 01:09:59.640
first would be Jess Hageman. Jess Hageman, it's h a g.

1175
01:10:02.000 --> 01:10:04.960
She's a friend of mine, but she's someone I have

1176
01:10:05.600 --> 01:10:09.319
she's been writing longer than me her whole life. She's

1177
01:10:09.479 --> 01:10:16.800
a magnificent writer. She's been inspirational to me as far

1178
01:10:16.840 --> 01:10:21.039
as how she writes and what she writes and her

1179
01:10:21.079 --> 01:10:26.000
work ethic. She published a book in twenty eighteen that

1180
01:10:26.039 --> 01:10:30.479
came out from Sinistate but is now I think now

1181
01:10:30.520 --> 01:10:32.640
the rights are held by and I never say this

1182
01:10:32.760 --> 01:10:38.520
word right and psychlop elyps it's like apocalypse but encyclopedia

1183
01:10:38.640 --> 01:10:41.520
and those two words together, I fucking suck at saying it.

1184
01:10:42.520 --> 01:10:45.439
But that book is called head Cheese and it is

1185
01:10:45.600 --> 01:10:52.000
about a amputation fetish cult. Okay, and that book will

1186
01:10:52.720 --> 01:10:54.399
shred your nerves. It's so good.

1187
01:10:55.039 --> 01:10:56.560
And what's the name of the book again.

1188
01:10:56.560 --> 01:11:01.920
Head cheese one word? And then she has another book

1189
01:11:01.960 --> 01:11:07.640
coming out in October from Ghoulish Books. And I've also

1190
01:11:07.680 --> 01:11:11.840
read this one and it is called Mother Eating Mother

1191
01:11:12.119 --> 01:11:14.279
dash Eating. I think there's a dash, but anyway, it's

1192
01:11:14.279 --> 01:11:22.199
two separate words. And that is about a a sex

1193
01:11:22.279 --> 01:11:26.399
cult in Austin. But it is a retelling of the

1194
01:11:26.399 --> 01:11:32.640
story of Marie Antoinette Nice and it's fantastic. I read

1195
01:11:32.640 --> 01:11:35.560
it several years ago when she first wrote it. So good.

1196
01:11:36.039 --> 01:11:37.119
Let them eat cake.

1197
01:11:37.239 --> 01:11:38.960
Yeah, let them eat cake, Well, they're going to eat

1198
01:11:39.000 --> 01:11:42.119
something in that book. And then another person I'll shout out,

1199
01:11:42.640 --> 01:11:47.840
and I think I think he's getting some recognition for

1200
01:11:47.960 --> 01:11:53.479
what is he is writing. But he needs more and

1201
01:11:53.520 --> 01:11:57.560
that is Josh Rowntree and it's r O U N

1202
01:11:57.720 --> 01:12:00.199
t r e E. He He wrote a Boo boo

1203
01:12:00.319 --> 01:12:02.319
I think like two years ago, called The Legend of

1204
01:12:02.399 --> 01:12:09.640
Charlie Fish, which was a creature feature taking place in

1205
01:12:09.680 --> 01:12:14.560
the hurricane in Galveston in the early nineteen hundreds. But

1206
01:12:14.600 --> 01:12:19.079
the lines and I liked that book. It's got some

1207
01:12:19.159 --> 01:12:22.680
amazing characters you'd really like, I think. But the new

1208
01:12:22.720 --> 01:12:25.680
one he wrote is called The Unkillable Frank Lightning. It

1209
01:12:25.720 --> 01:12:28.840
is a retelling of Frankenstein set in the West. Nice

1210
01:12:29.159 --> 01:12:33.199
Both books are out from Tachion and The Unkillable Frank

1211
01:12:33.279 --> 01:12:36.880
Lightning just came out. That book. I crushed it in

1212
01:12:37.399 --> 01:12:39.920
like two or three days, which is very fast for me.

1213
01:12:39.960 --> 01:12:45.039
I'm a slow ass reader. His writing craft, first of all,

1214
01:12:45.279 --> 01:12:47.560
just like leaps off the page. But it's but it

1215
01:12:47.560 --> 01:12:50.439
doesn't get in the way. He's a very death writer.

1216
01:12:50.560 --> 01:12:54.680
He's very good, whereas I have to like for me,

1217
01:12:54.880 --> 01:12:59.479
writing is like punching a giant mound of clay into

1218
01:12:59.600 --> 01:13:03.520
shape until it resembles something that looks like writing. He's

1219
01:13:04.000 --> 01:13:06.359
just a natural and so is Jess. So those are

1220
01:13:06.399 --> 01:13:07.960
two recommendations I would and.

1221
01:13:08.359 --> 01:13:14.239
That last the book was called The Unkillable Frank Lightning. Yes, okay, awesome.

1222
01:13:14.399 --> 01:13:16.560
I like to write down these answers because I often

1223
01:13:16.600 --> 01:13:18.720
go and check them out if I can. Yeah. Yeah,

1224
01:13:18.760 --> 01:13:20.840
And I also put them in the show notes so

1225
01:13:20.960 --> 01:13:22.239
other people can do the same.

1226
01:13:22.479 --> 01:13:23.000
Wonderful.

1227
01:13:23.079 --> 01:13:26.479
Yeah, because it seems like some people steal the spotlight,

1228
01:13:26.560 --> 01:13:30.560
which isn't It's not undeserved. They're great authors, but I

1229
01:13:30.560 --> 01:13:33.399
would like to see other people get the spotlight as well.

1230
01:13:33.760 --> 01:13:37.000
No, I love that. I absolutely love that. And of

1231
01:13:37.039 --> 01:13:39.359
course I'm glad I could think of anybody, because as

1232
01:13:39.359 --> 01:13:41.479
soon as anybody asked me those questions, my whole bro

1233
01:13:41.560 --> 01:13:44.800
I'm like a rab My head just goes totally blank

1234
01:13:44.840 --> 01:13:46.720
and I just stare into the headlights.

1235
01:13:46.800 --> 01:13:50.600
Well, the thing is is I usually send that question beforehand,

1236
01:13:50.680 --> 01:13:52.159
just to give a heads up so that you can

1237
01:13:52.159 --> 01:13:54.079
think about it, because I have that exact same issue

1238
01:13:54.079 --> 01:13:58.239
where somebody asks and I'm like, oh God, okay, you're

1239
01:13:58.239 --> 01:13:59.880
gonna have to give me a minute here, Well.

1240
01:13:59.720 --> 01:14:01.680
Then another one, I want to say, one other one.

1241
01:14:01.720 --> 01:14:04.079
And I don't know that he's not getting attention. But

1242
01:14:04.159 --> 01:14:07.359
I had never heard of this book before. My friend

1243
01:14:07.439 --> 01:14:11.279
and also author, Bonnie Joe Stufflebeam put it in my hands.

1244
01:14:11.520 --> 01:14:16.119
And the book is called Venomous Lumpsucker and it is

1245
01:14:16.199 --> 01:14:21.079
by Ned. It's like Bowman b e U M A N.

1246
01:14:21.479 --> 01:14:26.600
I think that book is. Actually it's not horror. It's

1247
01:14:27.840 --> 01:14:33.359
like sci fi near future sci fi satire. It is

1248
01:14:34.439 --> 01:14:37.000
utterly brilliant and it has some of those moments that

1249
01:14:37.039 --> 01:14:40.560
we talked about earlier, those wondrous moments that is like

1250
01:14:40.600 --> 01:14:42.880
a penny drop Man and you just shut the book

1251
01:14:43.000 --> 01:14:44.800
and you go, I gotta go take a break. That

1252
01:14:44.880 --> 01:14:47.960
was so amazing. That was so good, and I had

1253
01:14:47.960 --> 01:14:51.000
never heard of him or Venomous Lumpsucker before. So there's

1254
01:14:51.039 --> 01:14:52.920
another bonus bonus title.

1255
01:14:53.039 --> 01:14:55.800
Excellent. I love that title too, like, yeah, it's great.

1256
01:14:55.920 --> 01:14:58.319
You can you can find that that author real easy

1257
01:14:58.439 --> 01:14:59.239
just by that title.

1258
01:14:59.439 --> 01:15:01.920
Yes, you can, as you can. And the book cover

1259
01:15:02.000 --> 01:15:03.880
is great too, it's a really good book cover.

1260
01:15:04.119 --> 01:15:06.600
Yea. So is there what are you working on right

1261
01:15:06.640 --> 01:15:09.399
now that we can look forward to, assuming of course

1262
01:15:09.439 --> 01:15:10.399
that you can talk about it.

1263
01:15:10.600 --> 01:15:16.079
Yeah. I just got back the edits on my novel

1264
01:15:16.119 --> 01:15:20.920
that comes out next September. That is called Worrybox. And

1265
01:15:21.079 --> 01:15:26.239
Worrybox is about a family who has just taken in

1266
01:15:26.279 --> 01:15:32.720
a foster daughter who suffers from extremely monstrous and violent,

1267
01:15:32.800 --> 01:15:36.239
intrusive thoughts. And that is So that's Worry Box and

1268
01:15:36.279 --> 01:15:42.399
that is coming out from Angry Robot next September. And

1269
01:15:41.319 --> 01:15:46.359
then there's Shit Show. And then there's something I can't

1270
01:15:46.359 --> 01:15:49.039
announce but it's going to be announced soon, coming out

1271
01:15:49.119 --> 01:15:52.560
in February, and that is I'll just say it's a

1272
01:15:52.600 --> 01:15:57.960
horror fantasy. Uh. And then I'm still doing doing all

1273
01:15:58.000 --> 01:16:02.840
the art for sure for the chap books. I have

1274
01:16:03.560 --> 01:16:06.680
a short story in the upcoming Taylor Swift anthology, Look

1275
01:16:06.720 --> 01:16:11.520
What You Made Me Do? Taylor Swift Horror Anthology. That's awesome,

1276
01:16:12.720 --> 01:16:16.920
and that's coming from so Below Books. Yeah, so that's

1277
01:16:17.000 --> 01:16:21.199
kind of That's and then just writing and revising projects

1278
01:16:21.920 --> 01:16:25.720
in various stages of being a pile of shit or

1279
01:16:26.319 --> 01:16:29.000
looking okay, you know, that's kind of how it's always going.

1280
01:16:30.359 --> 01:16:32.000
I understand that completely.

1281
01:16:32.199 --> 01:16:33.159
Yeah, I bet right.

1282
01:16:33.520 --> 01:16:36.239
Well, I want to thank you so much for coming

1283
01:16:36.279 --> 01:16:38.960
on and talking with me. I had an absolute blast.

1284
01:16:40.479 --> 01:16:43.520
This was a lot of fun. Where where can people

1285
01:16:43.520 --> 01:16:45.640
find you online if they want to follow you for

1286
01:16:45.840 --> 01:16:46.720
updates and whatnot?

1287
01:16:47.000 --> 01:16:48.520
Sure? Well, first of all, I want to say I

1288
01:16:48.560 --> 01:16:51.159
had a blast. I will come back anytime you want.

1289
01:16:51.199 --> 01:16:54.359
This was totally, totally a great time.

1290
01:16:54.640 --> 01:16:56.920
I say, I say it right now. I'll say, can

1291
01:16:56.920 --> 01:16:59.600
you come back in one year when when Worry Box

1292
01:16:59.680 --> 01:17:01.880
is going to come out? Yeah, I would love to

1293
01:17:01.880 --> 01:17:05.079
talk about intrusive thoughts with you because I've suffered from

1294
01:17:05.079 --> 01:17:09.000
those like really badly ditto, and that that would be

1295
01:17:09.039 --> 01:17:11.119
a great book to read and a great conversation.

1296
01:17:11.520 --> 01:17:14.680
Yes, one, I will absolutely come back. Let's do it again.

1297
01:17:15.520 --> 01:17:18.520
As far as where people can find me, I am

1298
01:17:18.640 --> 01:17:21.840
an attention whore. I'm not hard to find I am.

1299
01:17:22.600 --> 01:17:27.439
My website is Chrispanettier dot com. I'm on blue Sky

1300
01:17:27.600 --> 01:17:33.319
as scribe of Hades. I'm on TikTok and Instagram as

1301
01:17:33.439 --> 01:17:36.960
Chris Panettier. That should That should do plenty. I think

1302
01:17:36.960 --> 01:17:40.640
I'm on Threads too, is Chris Panettier. So Chris Panettier,

1303
01:17:40.800 --> 01:17:42.720
you look for him, you'll you'll find me.

1304
01:17:43.680 --> 01:17:46.560
All right, Well, thank you very much and we will

1305
01:17:46.560 --> 01:17:47.159
be in touch.

1306
01:17:47.880 --> 01:17:50.199
Yeah, you Bet Jason, and good luck on your novella.

1307
01:17:50.760 --> 01:17:52.640
Thank you, yeah you, Bet, thank you