July 14, 2025

058 - Going To Tick Town With Christopher A. Micklos

058 - Going To Tick Town With Christopher A. Micklos
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In this episode of Weird Reads, I sit down with author and filmmaker Christopher A. Micklos to talk about his gripping new book Tick Town, a fun tale that blends classic giant monsters and small-town dread. We also explore his history with making horror movies before digging into the book’s origins and themes.

Along the way, we trade thoughts on big bug horror and the pulpy paperbacks of the '70s and '80s. Plus, we talk about the creative (and creepy) implications of AI in storytelling—and whether it's a threat to today’s fiction writers.

Visit Chris online: https://christophermicklos.com/

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You're listening to the Weird Reader podcast.

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An extension of Jason's Weird Reads found on YouTube. Welcome, Well, Hello,

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and welcome to weird Reads. I'm your host, Jason White,

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and today I'm welcoming Christopher a miclose to the show.

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Christopher's book, Ticktown is a great throwback to nineteen eighties

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horror with a lot of nineteen fifties and sixties big

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bug monster appeal. He's also a writer and co director

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of the feature horror films The Nursery from twenty eighteen

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and The Headmistress from twenty twenty three. He is a

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life long horror fan, which means he's the perfect guy

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for Weird Reads. Welcome to the show, Christopher.

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Jason, thanks so much for having me. It's great to

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talk to you.

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Is it okay if I call you Chris or do

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you prefer Christopher?

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Absolutely, Chris is fine. I thought Christopher would be more

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pretentious on a book title, and so that's what I

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wanted to go for.

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Yeah, yeah, Well I asked that because I know a

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lot of Michaels, especially in the podcast Realm Here, and

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a lot of them way more than when I was

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growing up with Michaels prefer Michael over Mike.

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Oh really interesting, Okay. I actually I have a Michael

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friend as well, so maybe that's a thing.

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I think it is because like I grew up with

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a whole bunch of Michaels, but they all went by Mike,

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and now it's all Michael's.

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So yeah, it's just a little weird.

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You know, when you're eight, you don't want to be

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called Michael. It's just not you know.

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Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Yeah.

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So well, I'm I'm very happy to be here. Thanks

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for having me.

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Yeah, and I have to apologize because this is our

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second I did go through a bit of a medical

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thing and my I wasn't in the right head space.

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I was, uh it's kind of terrified honestly for a

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little bit there and but everything turned out okay.

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But we had to reschedule, and I apologize for putting

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you through that. But uh no, but thank you for you.

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You know, you let me know, which I appreciate. I've

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only been I've I've been in a little bit of

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a media tour here and I've only been stood up

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once entirely showed up for the for the interview and

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they didn't show up, and then I followed up with

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an email and said, hey, we might have got our

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signals crossed, and I never heard anything. I won't say

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where they were, but I was like, well, that's odd.

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I used to do, As I mentioned, I used to

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do a podcast myself, and I can't even imagine doing that.

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So you almost you almost think the worst is something

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is going on. You know that something horrible happened to

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the person. But it was three weeks ago and I

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still haven't heard. So I hope everything's okay.

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Yeah, I hope. So it's kind of weird when you

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hope you were just ghosted.

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Exactly exactly.

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So in your bio and the bio I stole the

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uh that you're lifelong horror fan from your bio from

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your website. Yeah, And so I asked this question. I

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was glad you put that in there because I love

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asking this question. What what What's your horror origin story?

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How did you get into horror?

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That's a great way to ask it. The horror origin

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story For me, it was when I was when I

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was growing up, when I was really young, I used

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to spend a fair number of weekends at my grandparents

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and this was you know, I'm a I'm not a

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young pup. So this was back in the nineteen seventies,

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and so it was pre cable, pre VCR, all that,

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and at that point you get a lot of your

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movies through the through the regional superstation, and so on

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Saturday nights, my grandmother would let me stay up often

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with her and watch these old superstation movies. I don't

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even remember who the horror host was, but I had

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one of the zombie hosts or one of the you know,

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werewolf hosts or whatever, and they used to play these

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old especially universal movies or you know, the nineteen fifties

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sci fi movies, and I remember especially just being totally

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into the horror comedies, like you know, they have old

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they haven't Costello movies, of course, but you know, Bob Hope, like,

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you know, they weren't really horror movies, but they were

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kind of pseudo horror, like The Cat and the Canary

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or the Ghost Breakers or the Ghost and Mister Chicken

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with you know Don Mattz, you know those old horror comedies.

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I love those.

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Movies and they were totally a gateway I think to uh,

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they were my gateway drug to actually real horror. You know,

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once I once those started not spooking me anymore, you know,

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I kind of moved on to the more classic, you know,

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the old school, uh, you know, Frankenstein, Dracula. And then

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I remember the first, the first like real life horror

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movie that I watched my sisters. I had two older

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sisters and they might been watching me one night, and

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we all watched when a stranger calls together about you

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know the guy, you know, the the classic you know,

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he's he's in the house. You know, we trace the

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call and he's in the house where they the babysitters babysitting,

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and and the kids are murdered by the guy who's

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already in the house. And I just remember being like,

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oh my god, this is nothing like these movies that

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I have been watching before. This is actually, you know,

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scaring the living beep out of me, an exactly, the

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old universal stuff seemed offully quaint compared to uh, you know,

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kids being babysat being murdered. So it was that was

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then I was off and running. And then it was

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Halloween and you know the eighties horror movies, and I just, uh,

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I've just always loved horror from from from the Child

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on so nice.

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I remember I did the similar when I was growing

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up during the summer months. I would stay up late

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in my early teens and whatnot, and those shows would

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come on. I was already introduced to horror at that time,

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but I loved that era of TV because you'd always

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at least one channel would have something like that on.

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And I've seen the most obscure, weirdest horror movies that

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I've never seen again.

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Or I've tried to find some of them. And yeah,

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and you just don't know.

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What the title was because you caught like parts of it,

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or maybe you saw the whole thing, but you just

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forget what the title was. And I mean, it's right,

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TV now, it's either either you got infomercials on all

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night or it's the same damn television show on repeat.

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Well, and plus you can find now anything you want

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to find, I mean, the title and stuff. And so

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but that boy, that time when you would just be

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stumbling across channels and you might be ten minutes in,

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you might be twenty minutes in, you might be an

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hour in, but it's like, WHOA, there's a monster. I've

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been to stop here and watch this. You know, that

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was a pretty special special time. And then plus that

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was you know again in that same era, there were

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TV shows like, you know, The night Stalker was on TV,

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which I didn't watch regularly, but I remember seeing a

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little bit of or even you know, something like The

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Planet of the Apes. When you're that age, that was

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like almost like a horror you know thing. So I

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loved all that when I was a kid. I just

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I just I've never lost my taste for it, and

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I still love I mean, I like more traditional horror now,

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but those classics still have a very very special place

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in my heart. I collect classic you know, memorabilia from

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the forties and thirties and forties and fifties, and I

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just I've never gotten over that.

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Yeah.

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Were you a big reader at the time too, You know,

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I wasn't the closest thing. I mean, I was a reader,

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but I wasn't reading like horror stuff. I would say

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the closest stuff I got to horror was the Hardy

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Boys books or you know, and every now and then

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there'd be a ghost story or I was a big

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fan of the Alfred Hitchcock and the Three Investigators books,

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which and then then there came a series of I

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think House, the House with the Clock in its Walls series, Yeah,

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became a thing, and so I got into it over time,

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but I kind of started with again with the more

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benign stuff, and then I didn't actually even start reading

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horror honestly until probably I was in my I would say,

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even in my twenties when I, you know, started picking

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up horror. And even then it was classics, you know.

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I wanted to read like Frankenstein and Dracula, and I

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fell in love with Poe at that time. And then

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as I got older, even into my thirties, that's when

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I started discovering like the writers that I ended up

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really falling in love with, like Richard Matheson, who's my

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favorite horror author. And then later even later, more recently,

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the pulp horror writers like Guyan Smith and Graham Masterton

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and and Sean Hudson and those kinds of authors. I've

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really only discovered them in the last like five years,

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and WHOA boy, did I fall in love with them

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so much so that that's kind of what I wanted

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to pursue when I wrote.

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My first novel, Nice so now you started your your

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career in horror by making movies.

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Yeah?

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What how did you get involved? First of all, because

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you've had you had a career, uh quite extensively in makeing,

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like in politics before all this, right, and then you

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start making movies. How did you get involved? Uh, writing

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and directing movies?

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Yeah? I was. I was when I went to college.

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I was actually a film student in college at a

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at a state school here in Wisconsin, and I had

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always intended to want to, you know, pursue movie making.

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I applied to grad school to like U C l

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A and n y U and those you know kinds

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of schools. But then late in my college career, I

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got really passionate about politics, as you know kids often

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do when they're that age. I had a professor who

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really inspired me, and so I decided I wanted to

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change gears. And I ended up going to grad school

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for political communication, and then straight out of grad school,

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I started running political campaigns. Ran a mayor's race. Right

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out of grad school. I came back to Wisconsin, and

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I I worked in state politics for several years. I

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was the spokesman for the Senate major majority leader here

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in Wisconsin. And then I left and joined a couple

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of friends and we built a business called Visuality that

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was a media consulting and production firm, and we worked

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mostly in politics and advocacy. So we'd work with candidates

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to make ads, we would do media consulting on campaigns.

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We'd work for big organizations that were involved in politics,

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a lot of teachers groups that wanted to impact state

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politics here and then around the country. And but we

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made a lot of ads and videos and stuff like that,

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and we always, you know, my partners and I were

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always big movie fans, and we thought, oh, you know,

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we've got the means, you know, why, why why wouldn't

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we make a movie? You know, it seems silly. We've

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got all this like state of the art equipment, and

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we love movies, so why don't we try it. So

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we fooled around with that for about twenty years before

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we actually decided to go for it. You know what,

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why do something now when you can wait twenty years.

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So after about twenty years, we were like, now's the time,

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now that we're in our mid forties, we're going to

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actually make a movie. And so we set out back

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in twenty sixteen to just see if we could do it.

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And so we decided we're just going to take it

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stage by stage, and so we're going to see if

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we come up with an idea. We came up with

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an idea. We're going to see if we can write

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a script. We could write. We wrote a script. It

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was you know, we didn't have much money, so we

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had to like look at local cast and so I

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wonder if we could find actors that can actually, you know,

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pull this off. And we did cast in and we

229
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found actors. And then at that point, you're like, well, geez,

230
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you know, now we've got actors involved, we better make

231
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this stupid movie. And so we did, and we we

232
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we shot I think I think our first movie. We

233
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shot thirteen days over about six weeks. We were shooting

234
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like Thursday, Friday, and Saturday nights overnight at a location

235
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about an hour from where I live. And all of

236
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a sudden, we had all this footage in the can.

237
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We looked at it. It was terrible. It was just

238
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like the It was just you almost wanted to cry

239
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when you looked at the footage. But as you you know,

240
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I don't know what movie making, but as you go

241
00:12:21.679 --> 00:12:23.639
through it's like, oh, there's a take that works, and

242
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there's a shot that works, and we pieced together a

243
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movie that, you know, we ended up being pretty proud of.

244
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And we shopped around to distributors. We got lots and

245
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lots of offers on it. We won some festival awards,

246
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and it was called The Nursery and it came out

247
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it was distributed by Uncorked Entertainment in twenty and eighteen.

248
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We had a great experience, and so we decided a

249
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couple years later to make another movie. It was called

250
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The Headmistress, and that came out in twenty twenty three,

251
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and it was just just a great experience. We just

252
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we had a we had like the actual production period

253
00:13:02.360 --> 00:13:04.399
of a movie, when you're on sad and you know

254
00:13:04.440 --> 00:13:07.000
things are going haywire and you're working with the actors

255
00:13:07.320 --> 00:13:09.320
is just a ball. It's it's the most fun you

256
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can possibly have. And so my partners and I are,

257
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you know, thinking about what might be next. We haven't

258
00:13:16.919 --> 00:13:20.840
really come up with anything yet. So I decided, well

259
00:13:20.879 --> 00:13:22.759
we were kind of trying to figure that out, maybe

260
00:13:22.759 --> 00:13:25.279
I would try my hand at a novel. And and

261
00:13:25.320 --> 00:13:28.600
that's where my debut novel Tiktown kind of grew out.

262
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Of lo and behold, here we are, Ticktown, Here we are. Yeah,

263
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I find that interesting.

264
00:13:35.360 --> 00:13:38.879
I've talked to a couple of movie people in the past,

265
00:13:38.960 --> 00:13:43.840
people who do movies and and write books, and I

266
00:13:43.879 --> 00:13:48.720
actually watched The Headmistress Oh, and it was really interesting movie.

267
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I liked the long shots off the hallways. It's it's

268
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a bit of a slow burn, and I really enjoyed

269
00:13:55.519 --> 00:13:59.000
that things aspect of the film. Kind of what was

270
00:13:59.039 --> 00:14:02.960
the genis us behind that movie and how did you guys, like,

271
00:14:03.879 --> 00:14:06.039
how did you guys work it into a story?

272
00:14:06.840 --> 00:14:08.960
Well, it was actually kind of an interesting story how

273
00:14:09.000 --> 00:14:12.799
it came to be. We we had made a connection

274
00:14:13.679 --> 00:14:16.720
through the nursery with a couple of local folks who

275
00:14:16.759 --> 00:14:20.799
were really interested in in investing in a movie, and

276
00:14:20.919 --> 00:14:25.200
so they one of them was a co owner of

277
00:14:25.240 --> 00:14:31.320
a local micro brewery, and so we wrote a concept

278
00:14:31.360 --> 00:14:34.320
that we thought would be fun for a horror comedy feature.

279
00:14:35.279 --> 00:14:38.039
We called it The Witch's brew House, and it was

280
00:14:38.320 --> 00:14:40.600
you know, it all would take place in this person's

281
00:14:40.639 --> 00:14:43.360
micro brewery. So we had a location for it, and

282
00:14:43.399 --> 00:14:46.240
it was kind of horror, it's kind of comedy, and

283
00:14:46.279 --> 00:14:48.399
we were in the process. I mean, we were quite

284
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a ways in several drafts into the script, and we

285
00:14:50.399 --> 00:14:54.080
were starting to think about casting. And then one of

286
00:14:54.120 --> 00:14:59.840
the other investors texted my he's closer to one of

287
00:14:59.840 --> 00:15:02.559
my other partners, and he texted my partner and said, hey,

288
00:15:02.600 --> 00:15:07.000
you know, there's this abandoned nunnery a buddying my property

289
00:15:07.080 --> 00:15:09.799
here in O'connomwak, Wisconsin. He said, and I think I'm

290
00:15:09.799 --> 00:15:11.799
going to buy it because we want to clear the

291
00:15:11.879 --> 00:15:15.320
land and build something else. He's like, why don't you

292
00:15:15.320 --> 00:15:18.039
just come look at it? And so my two other

293
00:15:18.080 --> 00:15:20.120
partners went and looked at it and they started, I

294
00:15:20.120 --> 00:15:21.519
don't remember what I was doing with They sent me

295
00:15:21.559 --> 00:15:26.159
some pictures and it was this amazing two building structure.

296
00:15:26.519 --> 00:15:30.879
It had been built like in the nineteen fifties. It

297
00:15:31.080 --> 00:15:34.519
was just it was creepy and it was completely abandoned,

298
00:15:34.519 --> 00:15:38.559
and they were like, you know, this fantastic attic of

299
00:15:38.840 --> 00:15:44.039
just crazy sellar. There were these cabinets that locked only

300
00:15:44.080 --> 00:15:46.759
from the inside, which we never could quite figure out

301
00:15:46.799 --> 00:15:49.840
what that was about. You know, it was the weirdest thing.

302
00:15:50.360 --> 00:15:56.120
But anyway, and so the so this individual had basically said, hey,

303
00:15:56.240 --> 00:15:58.279
you know, this was This must have been in like

304
00:15:58.399 --> 00:16:04.799
February of know, whatever year it was. February. I'm buying this,

305
00:16:04.919 --> 00:16:07.639
you know this month, I'm going to burn it down

306
00:16:08.000 --> 00:16:11.679
in December. You can do anything you want to it

307
00:16:11.720 --> 00:16:13.279
between now and then. Do do you think you can

308
00:16:13.320 --> 00:16:15.879
do something with it? And so we abandoned the Brewery

309
00:16:15.960 --> 00:16:21.000
script and we we started working in another concept using

310
00:16:21.440 --> 00:16:24.960
the the nunnery as kind of our starting point. And

311
00:16:25.000 --> 00:16:28.919
we found a concept that we liked using the nunnery.

312
00:16:29.639 --> 00:16:34.200
Starting in gosh h September, I guess it was, we

313
00:16:34.279 --> 00:16:37.240
moved in. We like literally moved into the nunnery with

314
00:16:37.279 --> 00:16:41.159
our actors for about two weeks, maybe a little little

315
00:16:41.200 --> 00:16:44.120
under two weeks. We all lived there. We shot there

316
00:16:44.320 --> 00:16:47.720
day and night. It was like summer camp, movie movie

317
00:16:47.759 --> 00:16:50.639
making summer camp. We flew actors in, we had actually

318
00:16:50.679 --> 00:16:53.799
come in from Chicago. We had someone from Portland, we

319
00:16:53.799 --> 00:16:59.240
had someone from Los Angeles at a couple of local

320
00:16:59.240 --> 00:17:01.279
people as well, and we just I mean again, it

321
00:17:01.320 --> 00:17:02.840
was just a blast. It was, like I said, it

322
00:17:02.879 --> 00:17:05.519
was just summer movie making, summer camp. And we had

323
00:17:05.519 --> 00:17:09.079
a great time making the movie. And then but then

324
00:17:09.160 --> 00:17:12.440
COVID hit immediately afterwards, and so it kind of delayed,

325
00:17:12.839 --> 00:17:16.119
you know, our ability to do the post production and

326
00:17:16.359 --> 00:17:18.000
that sort of thing. So it took a while to

327
00:17:18.359 --> 00:17:22.160
get out. But it was another great experience and and

328
00:17:22.240 --> 00:17:25.519
it was definitely just quality wise, it was definitely a

329
00:17:25.559 --> 00:17:27.960
step forward from the Nursery. I mean, your your first child,

330
00:17:28.000 --> 00:17:31.559
you're gonna you're gonna love unconditionally. But Mistress is definitely

331
00:17:31.559 --> 00:17:35.039
a better movie. And and again we got another We

332
00:17:35.079 --> 00:17:37.440
had good offers on it. We found a distributor that

333
00:17:37.480 --> 00:17:43.400
we liked called uh indikin Pictures and uh and and

334
00:17:43.480 --> 00:17:45.440
we were off and running and the movie came out

335
00:17:45.440 --> 00:17:50.160
in twenty twenty three. So we actually got limited theatrical

336
00:17:50.200 --> 00:17:52.319
play with this one. We were in several theaters here

337
00:17:52.319 --> 00:17:56.359
in Wisconsin, we were in some theaters in California. So

338
00:17:56.440 --> 00:17:58.519
that was cool. That was a step forward something we

339
00:17:58.559 --> 00:18:01.039
hadn't anticipated. And and so yeah, so we we had.

340
00:18:01.319 --> 00:18:02.079
It was a great time.

341
00:18:03.039 --> 00:18:08.160
The the in the film, the outdoor view of the nunnery,

342
00:18:08.319 --> 00:18:10.000
is that is that the same building?

343
00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:11.880
Because that that's a beautiful place.

344
00:18:12.119 --> 00:18:15.640
Yeah yeah, gone, yeah it's gone now, it got it

345
00:18:15.680 --> 00:18:18.559
got raised. It's funny too because it was two like

346
00:18:18.599 --> 00:18:21.039
I said, it was two buildings. Uh. We used one

347
00:18:21.079 --> 00:18:23.839
building primarily for the exteriors. We kind of we kind

348
00:18:23.839 --> 00:18:26.880
of faked that both buildings were the same building and

349
00:18:26.920 --> 00:18:30.519
we used the uh uh exterior of one building is

350
00:18:30.559 --> 00:18:32.480
the you know, is the exterior for the whole place.

351
00:18:33.640 --> 00:18:36.400
And it looks like this massive state or something.

352
00:18:36.640 --> 00:18:37.160
Yeah.

353
00:18:37.240 --> 00:18:39.839
But then when it was raised, we you know, we

354
00:18:39.880 --> 00:18:42.319
went out there before they like really like developed the

355
00:18:42.400 --> 00:18:44.799
land and we looked at the footprint and the footprint

356
00:18:44.880 --> 00:18:46.640
was like it it felt like it was the size

357
00:18:46.640 --> 00:18:48.759
of a volleyball quarterorth like that. I was like, holy cow,

358
00:18:48.920 --> 00:18:51.039
you know, like this is nothing like when we were

359
00:18:51.079 --> 00:18:54.400
inside it. Wo, So it was pretty cool. It was

360
00:18:54.400 --> 00:18:56.720
pretty cool. We I remember I when I was saying

361
00:18:56.720 --> 00:18:59.960
when we started. We we actually moved in to the

362
00:19:00.119 --> 00:19:04.480
Nunnery on a Friday, the thirteenth in September, right and

363
00:19:04.640 --> 00:19:06.759
back in twenty nineteen and so yeah, so that was

364
00:19:06.799 --> 00:19:08.839
like it was just me and my my co director

365
00:19:08.960 --> 00:19:11.759
Jason Pyro, and then two of the actresses had come

366
00:19:11.799 --> 00:19:14.640
in that night, and then everyone else was coming on Saturday.

367
00:19:14.680 --> 00:19:16.880
So we were in this big complex. We went out

368
00:19:16.920 --> 00:19:18.920
and got you know, dinner, brought it in. But it

369
00:19:18.960 --> 00:19:21.079
was pretty creepy that first night, it was like, yeah,

370
00:19:21.079 --> 00:19:25.119
this feels a little weird. This feels like we're in

371
00:19:25.160 --> 00:19:27.640
a horror movie. Not horror movie.

372
00:19:27.720 --> 00:19:30.839
Did he experience anything that was actually kind of made

373
00:19:30.880 --> 00:19:33.799
you think, you know, like, is this is this supernatural?

374
00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:36.599
Or honestly, we didn't. I would I would love to

375
00:19:36.599 --> 00:19:41.720
say we did. One of my my co director, at

376
00:19:41.759 --> 00:19:46.240
one point, swears that he had tacked some stuff to

377
00:19:46.319 --> 00:19:48.680
the wall of his room, like he likes to make

378
00:19:48.759 --> 00:19:51.319
notes all over and he he swears he tacked something

379
00:19:51.359 --> 00:19:53.200
to a place on a wall, and then when he

380
00:19:53.240 --> 00:19:55.559
woke up the next morning, it had been moved several

381
00:19:55.559 --> 00:20:00.000
feet over. He swears that happened, but he didn't document it. Unfortunate.

382
00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:02.440
So I'm a professional skeptic, so I don't know if

383
00:20:02.440 --> 00:20:06.640
I believe it or not. But uh, I mean, if

384
00:20:06.640 --> 00:20:09.440
the place wasn't haunted, it should have been haunted, because

385
00:20:09.480 --> 00:20:13.920
it was. It was the easily the creepiest place I've

386
00:20:13.960 --> 00:20:17.240
ever been in my life. It was pretty cool. It

387
00:20:17.279 --> 00:20:17.839
was pretty cool.

388
00:20:18.319 --> 00:20:18.799
Awesome.

389
00:20:19.160 --> 00:20:22.000
Now, before we move on to tech town, I did

390
00:20:22.000 --> 00:20:26.160
want to ask about your podcast because you and I

391
00:20:26.200 --> 00:20:29.000
forget his name, I think he just mention was my

392
00:20:29.000 --> 00:20:32.799
co director. Yeah, you guys did a podcast together, and

393
00:20:33.240 --> 00:20:34.599
you guys stopped doing that though.

394
00:20:34.960 --> 00:20:37.799
What happened to that? Why why have we not had

395
00:20:37.880 --> 00:20:38.920
any new episodes?

396
00:20:39.599 --> 00:20:46.960
Yeah? We It was called Indie Horrorrizing, and we actually

397
00:20:46.960 --> 00:20:49.480
we started it around the time of our first film

398
00:20:49.519 --> 00:20:50.799
because we thought it would be kind of a cool

399
00:20:50.880 --> 00:20:53.880
promotional thing to do, and we we talked about the

400
00:20:53.920 --> 00:20:56.400
making of our our first movie and kind of talked

401
00:20:56.400 --> 00:20:59.279
to the actors in different episodes, and then and then

402
00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:02.400
you know, we did a couple of we did a

403
00:21:02.440 --> 00:21:06.000
couple of film festivals, and we thought it was just

404
00:21:06.039 --> 00:21:10.160
so fun meeting other indie filmmakers, and so we thought,

405
00:21:10.200 --> 00:21:13.400
let' why don't we transform this thing into a vehicle

406
00:21:13.440 --> 00:21:17.440
where we can, you know, interview filmmakers like us, like

407
00:21:17.680 --> 00:21:21.519
not indie filmmakers like who only have ten million dollars

408
00:21:21.559 --> 00:21:24.160
to make their movie, but indie filmmakers who are making

409
00:21:25.200 --> 00:21:27.759
thirty thousand dollars movies. They're fifty thousand. You know. We

410
00:21:27.799 --> 00:21:32.160
had some bigger ones, but not many, you know, and

411
00:21:32.240 --> 00:21:36.880
so so we you know, we're very open if people

412
00:21:36.880 --> 00:21:39.640
approached us, but mostly we went out and find move

413
00:21:39.720 --> 00:21:42.079
found movies that were coming out In the next couple

414
00:21:42.119 --> 00:21:44.359
of months, we'd reach out we you know, our our

415
00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:48.160
distributor at the time, indic I'm sorry, uncorked. We would

416
00:21:48.279 --> 00:21:49.960
you know, we would talk to filmmakers that were on

417
00:21:50.039 --> 00:21:52.359
their roster because they were easy to get in touch with.

418
00:21:52.480 --> 00:21:56.000
We would track other filmmakers down on IMDb and basically

419
00:21:56.000 --> 00:21:57.759
just say, hey, when your movie comes out, you know,

420
00:21:57.880 --> 00:21:59.480
we would love to talk to you about it. We

421
00:21:59.480 --> 00:22:01.920
don't send us a screen or copy, and then we'll

422
00:22:01.960 --> 00:22:04.279
spend a half hour, forty five minutes, an hour whatever

423
00:22:04.680 --> 00:22:07.279
talking about the you know, making indie horror movies and

424
00:22:07.279 --> 00:22:09.680
all the challenges and all the kind of rewards. And

425
00:22:10.200 --> 00:22:12.119
it was a blast. I mean, we we just had

426
00:22:12.119 --> 00:22:17.559
the best time doing it. Honestly, it was. It was great,

427
00:22:17.720 --> 00:22:21.359
especially during those couple of COVID years when there weren't

428
00:22:21.440 --> 00:22:23.839
film festivals going on, you know, in any it was

429
00:22:23.880 --> 00:22:25.880
just a great way to meet other people who were

430
00:22:25.920 --> 00:22:28.039
going through the same stuff that we were going through.

431
00:22:29.480 --> 00:22:32.559
And I mean it is it has been an outstanding

432
00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:37.799
Like the relationships that have still been able to maintain

433
00:22:38.079 --> 00:22:40.400
as a result of doing the podcast have been wonderful.

434
00:22:40.440 --> 00:22:43.240
You know. When we needed when we needed to find

435
00:22:43.440 --> 00:22:48.200
uh uh, some additional special effects help for our last movie.

436
00:22:48.359 --> 00:22:50.279
I reached out to all our you know, all our

437
00:22:50.279 --> 00:22:52.279
filmmakers and said, hey, who do you guys use for

438
00:22:52.359 --> 00:22:55.559
you know, special effects? When we were looking for composers,

439
00:22:55.559 --> 00:22:58.200
we were getting suggestions and you know, it's just been great.

440
00:22:59.720 --> 00:23:02.000
But it just it got to be a lot, you know.

441
00:23:02.519 --> 00:23:05.000
We we were trying to we were trying to do

442
00:23:05.079 --> 00:23:07.920
it weekly, and then we did it every couple of weeks,

443
00:23:08.839 --> 00:23:11.160
but it just got to be you know, we were

444
00:23:11.200 --> 00:23:14.079
at the time, we were still running our business. I

445
00:23:14.240 --> 00:23:17.160
was trying to write a novel, and it just it

446
00:23:17.279 --> 00:23:20.359
got to be too much, unfortunately, so we got away

447
00:23:20.400 --> 00:23:22.039
from it. But it's funny. I was just talking to Jay,

448
00:23:22.079 --> 00:23:25.960
who's you know, my best pal, last week, and I

449
00:23:26.000 --> 00:23:28.400
was like, god, you know, I just as much as

450
00:23:28.440 --> 00:23:31.279
it got to be too much, I just miss it

451
00:23:31.359 --> 00:23:34.160
so much because it was so fun to meet so

452
00:23:34.279 --> 00:23:36.359
many different people, kind of the way I am now

453
00:23:36.400 --> 00:23:39.039
going on this you know book media tour. You just

454
00:23:39.079 --> 00:23:41.960
meet people that you're not going to meet otherwise, and

455
00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:44.119
so it was it was a great experience. And so

456
00:23:44.440 --> 00:23:47.039
we're like, well, maybe we could try it again, you know,

457
00:23:47.119 --> 00:23:49.319
maybe we don't have to you know, do it every day.

458
00:23:49.519 --> 00:23:52.000
Maybe we can go onto like a more relaxed schedule

459
00:23:52.119 --> 00:23:56.440
or something, but but we we both miss it quite.

460
00:23:56.240 --> 00:23:57.039
A bit, we both.

461
00:23:57.799 --> 00:23:59.839
I mean, yeah, you don't even need to be regular,

462
00:24:00.119 --> 00:24:02.720
just put out, you know, an episode.

463
00:24:02.720 --> 00:24:04.119
That's pretty much how I do it.

464
00:24:04.240 --> 00:24:08.559
Because although I'm once every two weeks approximately, and I

465
00:24:08.680 --> 00:24:10.400
really relax it during the summer.

466
00:24:11.240 --> 00:24:11.559
Oh yea.

467
00:24:11.599 --> 00:24:15.480
But yeah, I'm like currently doing two podcasts right now.

468
00:24:16.119 --> 00:24:19.680
Oh good for you. That's I mean, I love doing it,

469
00:24:19.720 --> 00:24:24.319
though I also write like like you do. But you know,

470
00:24:24.559 --> 00:24:27.079
I know what you're talking about because I was doing

471
00:24:27.160 --> 00:24:31.720
YouTube what we call book tube content. I was doing

472
00:24:31.720 --> 00:24:33.680
that for the longest time, where you know, you do

473
00:24:33.799 --> 00:24:35.960
like your top ten lists of your favorite horror books

474
00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:39.119
and all that kind of stuff, right, And when I

475
00:24:39.160 --> 00:24:41.960
switched a job that was pretty much eating up ninety

476
00:24:41.960 --> 00:24:46.160
percent of my time to a more relaxed job, suddenly

477
00:24:46.200 --> 00:24:48.319
I had all this time. So I started writing again,

478
00:24:48.759 --> 00:24:51.319
and when the writing came in, something else had to go.

479
00:24:51.480 --> 00:24:54.400
And so the book tube videos have really dropped off

480
00:24:54.480 --> 00:24:56.799
by a lot because I need the I need the

481
00:24:56.839 --> 00:25:00.000
writing time, right, But I can't stop talking to other people,

482
00:25:00.359 --> 00:25:03.799
other authors, because it's just uh, it's it's a lot

483
00:25:03.799 --> 00:25:06.839
of fun. I'm having like the time of my life

484
00:25:06.880 --> 00:25:08.319
doing this, and I've been doing it off and on,

485
00:25:08.400 --> 00:25:10.319
but mostly on for the last ten years or so,

486
00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:12.000
which is Yeah.

487
00:25:14.359 --> 00:25:16.319
I would say that when we were doing indie horrorizing,

488
00:25:16.400 --> 00:25:20.039
I'm trying to think, like, did we ever have a

489
00:25:20.079 --> 00:25:23.240
conversation where we were just like, oh god, you know,

490
00:25:23.279 --> 00:25:25.200
it's like, boy, that was a dud, or like I

491
00:25:25.240 --> 00:25:27.480
didn't like those guys at all. I can't think of

492
00:25:27.519 --> 00:25:29.799
a single one. I mean, it was just a great

493
00:25:29.839 --> 00:25:32.440
way to meet people again who are who are in

494
00:25:32.480 --> 00:25:34.039
the same space as you, right, I've mean the same

495
00:25:34.039 --> 00:25:36.599
way you're doing it with as a writer. Talking to writers,

496
00:25:36.599 --> 00:25:38.759
it's like they're in the same space that kind of

497
00:25:38.759 --> 00:25:41.960
have the same you know, similar backgrounds often I'm sure,

498
00:25:43.079 --> 00:25:45.279
and the same challenges. I mean, this is not it's

499
00:25:45.319 --> 00:25:48.720
not easy to be an independent writer, you know, in

500
00:25:48.799 --> 00:25:52.559
horror or anything else, I imagine. But so it's interesting

501
00:25:52.599 --> 00:25:55.920
to like be able to trade war stories and you know,

502
00:25:56.200 --> 00:25:57.920
talk to people wore going through the same stuff you're

503
00:25:57.960 --> 00:25:58.440
going through.

504
00:25:58.880 --> 00:26:02.720
Absolutely, Yeah, So you came here not to talk about

505
00:26:02.759 --> 00:26:04.319
all that stuff, although that stuff was a lot of

506
00:26:04.319 --> 00:26:07.839
fun to talk about. We are here to promote your

507
00:26:07.839 --> 00:26:11.160
newest book, Ticktown, which thank you for giving me the

508
00:26:11.759 --> 00:26:13.880
ORC for I had a lot of fun reading it,

509
00:26:13.920 --> 00:26:16.319
and I also listened to the audio book because it

510
00:26:16.359 --> 00:26:21.720
came out well, because it it came out after like

511
00:26:21.839 --> 00:26:25.000
we were supposed to do this interview around the release time, right,

512
00:26:25.000 --> 00:26:26.559
and that's why you gave me the e ORC. So

513
00:26:26.839 --> 00:26:28.640
I read the E York but then I ended up

514
00:26:28.640 --> 00:26:32.359
going back and re listening to the audio and that

515
00:26:32.480 --> 00:26:33.599
was really well done too.

516
00:26:34.359 --> 00:26:34.759
Oh good.

517
00:26:34.799 --> 00:26:38.680
So I want to know because it's such an interesting premise.

518
00:26:38.920 --> 00:26:41.119
I said in my introduction to you that it's like

519
00:26:41.240 --> 00:26:44.680
a it's a throwback. It feels like a nineteen eighties

520
00:26:44.759 --> 00:26:49.359
horror film that was inspired by nineteen forties nineteen fifties

521
00:26:49.400 --> 00:26:53.279
title of Big Bug Movies. So I want to know

522
00:26:53.400 --> 00:26:56.640
what is the inspiration behind Ticktown and also what is

523
00:26:56.680 --> 00:26:58.079
it about?

524
00:26:58.839 --> 00:27:00.920
Well, so, yeah, well, I love I love the fact

525
00:27:01.000 --> 00:27:06.599
that you drew those connections because that's definitely what it is.

526
00:27:06.680 --> 00:27:10.759
I mean, it's it's four people who love. You mentioned

527
00:27:10.799 --> 00:27:14.079
those eighties movies and definitely that. But I think of

528
00:27:14.119 --> 00:27:16.200
it as kind of a blend of the seventies and

529
00:27:16.240 --> 00:27:20.160
eighties pulp horror paperbacks that were you know, a lot

530
00:27:20.200 --> 00:27:23.440
of big bugs stuff during that area, mixed with those

531
00:27:23.519 --> 00:27:27.880
nineteen fifties and sixties sci fi movies I mentioned earlier.

532
00:27:27.920 --> 00:27:30.559
Some of those pulp horror writers like Dianne Smith and

533
00:27:31.200 --> 00:27:34.599
some of those others. I discovered them about five years

534
00:27:34.640 --> 00:27:38.599
ago when I was I read this book called Paperbacks

535
00:27:38.599 --> 00:27:40.039
from Hall. I don't know if you ever heard of

536
00:27:40.079 --> 00:27:45.480
that gray over there, Oh yeah, yeah, Grady Hendrix and

537
00:27:45.480 --> 00:27:50.480
will Erickson, and it's this survey of this crazy era

538
00:27:50.799 --> 00:27:54.559
of paperback horror from the seventies and eighties, and it

539
00:27:54.720 --> 00:27:58.599
just basically, I mean, as you know, it just goes

540
00:27:58.640 --> 00:28:01.079
through like you know, oh and there's this book, and

541
00:28:01.079 --> 00:28:03.160
there's this book, and this is the plot, and this

542
00:28:03.240 --> 00:28:06.519
is you know, these are the covers. And I was

543
00:28:06.599 --> 00:28:09.559
just so turned on by some of these like ridiculous

544
00:28:09.599 --> 00:28:12.039
plots that were outlined in this book and some of

545
00:28:12.039 --> 00:28:14.720
these crazy premises, and I was like, well, that's really interesting.

546
00:28:15.039 --> 00:28:17.000
So I started picking up some of the books, and

547
00:28:17.039 --> 00:28:21.680
I I started with authors like Graham Masterton and moved

548
00:28:21.720 --> 00:28:24.599
quickly to Guyan Smith and his seminal book, which is

549
00:28:24.680 --> 00:28:28.960
Knight of the Crabs, and I was just so flabbergasted

550
00:28:29.000 --> 00:28:31.160
with how much fun Night of the Crabs was, and

551
00:28:31.200 --> 00:28:34.440
it's basically about giant mutant crabs run amok in the

552
00:28:34.440 --> 00:28:39.119
Welsh countryside. And I started reading more of his stuff

553
00:28:40.319 --> 00:28:43.240
and it harkened back. Even though it wasn't quite as

554
00:28:43.480 --> 00:28:47.480
light as those fifties and sixties U sci fi movies

555
00:28:47.519 --> 00:28:49.920
were mean, it was finding me very much of those

556
00:28:49.960 --> 00:28:52.759
which I'd always loved. And so when I decided I

557
00:28:52.759 --> 00:28:55.759
think I want to try writing a novel, I that

558
00:28:55.880 --> 00:28:58.160
was the that was the playground I wanted to play on.

559
00:28:58.240 --> 00:28:59.799
I was like, you know, I really want I really

560
00:28:59.839 --> 00:29:02.960
liked this creature feature type of horror. I really like

561
00:29:03.440 --> 00:29:06.319
this kind of pulpy approach to writing, and I think

562
00:29:06.359 --> 00:29:09.480
it's something that I can do. And so I sat

563
00:29:09.559 --> 00:29:11.720
down I started thinking, well, I don't want to do

564
00:29:11.799 --> 00:29:14.599
Crabs because you know, I'm definitely gonna rip off guy

565
00:29:14.640 --> 00:29:16.039
in Smith, but I don't want to rip them off

566
00:29:16.039 --> 00:29:20.880
that much. I don't want to betting about it. And spiders,

567
00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:23.279
you know, obviously have been done to death. You know,

568
00:29:23.440 --> 00:29:24.799
ants is obviously a class.

569
00:29:25.640 --> 00:29:29.400
Actually, the two movies that came to mind while I

570
00:29:29.440 --> 00:29:32.000
was reading this as them, which I always want to

571
00:29:32.039 --> 00:29:34.880
call the Ants. Every time I go to reference that movie,

572
00:29:34.880 --> 00:29:36.799
I want to call it the Ants. But it's not

573
00:29:36.839 --> 00:29:41.119
the Ans, it's them and Transula of course, yeah, Transula, right.

574
00:29:42.200 --> 00:29:44.640
But them. Actually, it's funny that you mentioned them, because

575
00:29:44.640 --> 00:29:47.480
when I did my book launch here in Madison, Wisconsin,

576
00:29:47.920 --> 00:29:52.160
we secured a local theater, we got a copy of them,

577
00:29:52.279 --> 00:29:55.279
we showed it on the ultra screen, and basically the

578
00:29:55.359 --> 00:29:58.559
deal was if people brought in their paperback copy of Ticktown,

579
00:29:58.759 --> 00:30:00.960
they got in free to the MOVI And so we

580
00:30:01.000 --> 00:30:04.039
had we had like eighty or ninety people come. You know,

581
00:30:04.079 --> 00:30:05.880
I would say I knew maybe half of them, and

582
00:30:05.920 --> 00:30:07.799
half of them were just kind of community members. I

583
00:30:07.839 --> 00:30:11.119
wanted to see them, you know, it was great. It

584
00:30:11.200 --> 00:30:13.000
was like amazing to see that on the big screen.

585
00:30:13.160 --> 00:30:16.480
That would be, oh, this is yeah, it's so cool.

586
00:30:16.799 --> 00:30:19.160
So anyway, so that's what I wanted to do. I

587
00:30:19.200 --> 00:30:24.000
wanted to do something similar to that. As crazy as

588
00:30:24.039 --> 00:30:29.079
those seventies and eighties paperbacks were, I personally found that

589
00:30:29.119 --> 00:30:31.599
they weren't written with a lot of I mean, the

590
00:30:32.160 --> 00:30:35.640
plots are just nuts and they're not you know, they're

591
00:30:36.440 --> 00:30:40.119
they're they're wild, and they're so fun to read, but

592
00:30:40.240 --> 00:30:43.839
there was a lightness and kind of fun I thought

593
00:30:43.839 --> 00:30:46.079
that was missing from just kind of the approach to

594
00:30:46.160 --> 00:30:49.759
the stories that you might find in an eighties movie,

595
00:30:49.839 --> 00:30:53.200
eighties horror movie, or a Them or a Trantla or

596
00:30:53.480 --> 00:30:55.279
or some of these other creature features. And so I

597
00:30:55.319 --> 00:30:58.400
wanted to kind of do one of those pulpy paperbacks,

598
00:30:58.440 --> 00:31:00.119
but I wanted to put a twist on it that

599
00:31:00.160 --> 00:31:02.880
made it just a little more light, a little more

600
00:31:03.000 --> 00:31:06.319
fun a little. I didn't want it to be jokey.

601
00:31:06.359 --> 00:31:11.440
I mean, I like writing. I write a lot of humor,

602
00:31:11.480 --> 00:31:13.920
fiction humor, but I didn't want it to be like

603
00:31:14.960 --> 00:31:17.559
a Woody Allen take on a creature feature movie or

604
00:31:17.599 --> 00:31:20.480
something like that. I wanted to be a straightforward creature feature,

605
00:31:20.519 --> 00:31:25.480
but I wanted it to be fun. And he asked

606
00:31:25.480 --> 00:31:27.440
what it was about. So basically, the log line is

607
00:31:27.480 --> 00:31:33.279
that a rural Wisconsin tourist town becomes the feeding ground

608
00:31:33.440 --> 00:31:36.960
for a band of giant mutant ticks. And that's what

609
00:31:37.039 --> 00:31:39.200
it is. It's a it's a it's a small town

610
00:31:39.200 --> 00:31:46.079
in Wisconsin that you know, basically, they've livestocks start disappearing,

611
00:31:46.160 --> 00:31:51.160
tourists start disappearing, local townsfolks start disappearing, and a couple

612
00:31:51.200 --> 00:31:53.759
of local reporters, you know, go out and discover that

613
00:31:53.799 --> 00:31:57.079
there's this, uh, these mutant ticks in the woods that

614
00:31:57.160 --> 00:32:00.079
are they don't know where they came from, and so

615
00:32:00.079 --> 00:32:01.759
they've got to kind of figure out what's going on

616
00:32:02.200 --> 00:32:06.680
where they came from. There's a lot of pulpy influences,

617
00:32:06.680 --> 00:32:08.839
you know. I found when you read those seventies and

618
00:32:08.839 --> 00:32:11.759
eighties books, there's got to be some sort of Nazi involvement.

619
00:32:11.799 --> 00:32:14.279
And so I don't have Nazi involvement, but I've got

620
00:32:14.319 --> 00:32:17.920
pseudo Nazi involvement. And you know, we're in the twenty

621
00:32:17.960 --> 00:32:19.920
first century here, so there's got to be some sort

622
00:32:19.960 --> 00:32:24.559
of you know, terrible corporate behemoth out there behind. So

623
00:32:24.920 --> 00:32:27.079
I tried to include all of that and tried to

624
00:32:27.079 --> 00:32:30.079
make it as fun as I could. And when I

625
00:32:30.160 --> 00:32:33.720
was done. When I was finished, I gave it to

626
00:32:33.880 --> 00:32:36.720
my co director on my movies, Jay, who's who always

627
00:32:36.799 --> 00:32:40.039
reads my stuff. And I was very apprehensive, but I

628
00:32:41.160 --> 00:32:43.279
you know, I gave it to him and I said, look,

629
00:32:43.559 --> 00:32:45.559
I mean, honestly, I've never read anything like this before.

630
00:32:45.599 --> 00:32:48.079
I have no idea if the writing's any good. I

631
00:32:48.079 --> 00:32:50.720
have no idea if I can reaven write fiction, you know,

632
00:32:50.839 --> 00:32:54.279
in this kind of format, I said, but I read

633
00:32:54.319 --> 00:32:57.119
it and I love it, and I it's exactly what

634
00:32:57.200 --> 00:32:59.720
I wanted it to be. It was it was the tone,

635
00:32:59.759 --> 00:33:02.599
the hat seeing kind of the whole whole thing was

636
00:33:02.640 --> 00:33:04.200
exactly what I wanted to be. So I said, I

637
00:33:04.279 --> 00:33:07.359
definitely want your feedback, but this is the book that

638
00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:10.759
I'm set out to write, so I hope it's okay.

639
00:33:11.079 --> 00:33:14.279
And he said, yeah, it's okay. Gave me. He gave

640
00:33:14.279 --> 00:33:17.559
me really good feedback, was very encouraging, and that gave

641
00:33:17.640 --> 00:33:20.799
me the confidence to go out and and start pitching

642
00:33:20.839 --> 00:33:24.519
it to literary agents and and uh and and small

643
00:33:24.599 --> 00:33:28.799
press publishers and and just see if anyone was interested.

644
00:33:28.920 --> 00:33:32.160
And uh and I got lucky and someone was interested.

645
00:33:32.880 --> 00:33:33.200
Nice.

646
00:33:33.720 --> 00:33:36.559
You brought up an interesting point there in that you, uh,

647
00:33:36.759 --> 00:33:40.759
you loved uh, you loved what you wrote, and uh,

648
00:33:40.839 --> 00:33:43.519
I think it's important for artists to be able to

649
00:33:44.559 --> 00:33:46.799
love their own work, because I see too many and

650
00:33:47.039 --> 00:33:51.559
like sort of ship posts on social media where people

651
00:33:51.640 --> 00:33:54.200
are dissing themselves and how much they hate their own

652
00:33:54.200 --> 00:33:57.480
work and stuff like that, and I and there's even

653
00:33:57.519 --> 00:33:59.440
some people who would argue that it's important to hate

654
00:33:59.480 --> 00:34:01.400
your own work. But I think it's important to love

655
00:34:01.400 --> 00:34:03.720
your work but be able to be critical of it

656
00:34:03.759 --> 00:34:04.440
at the same time.

657
00:34:04.519 --> 00:34:07.880
Yeah, yeah, because I know I agree with that. Yeah yeah,

658
00:34:07.880 --> 00:34:08.519
I agree with that.

659
00:34:09.159 --> 00:34:12.480
Because you in the end, you're the only one that's

660
00:34:12.519 --> 00:34:15.199
going to be holding your flag waving it right, So

661
00:34:15.639 --> 00:34:17.760
you can't really go online saying, oh man, this is

662
00:34:17.800 --> 00:34:18.679
a piece of shit you.

663
00:34:21.599 --> 00:34:25.760
Yeah. Yeah, It's funny with with with movies, I found

664
00:34:25.840 --> 00:34:30.559
it was harder because we were you know, we're working

665
00:34:30.559 --> 00:34:36.119
with such a small budgets on our movies and even

666
00:34:36.119 --> 00:34:38.760
in their final form, which I am extremely proud of.

667
00:34:38.960 --> 00:34:42.480
As the filmmaker, you see every warped, you know, I

668
00:34:42.559 --> 00:34:44.920
know every I know it's just beyond the frame of

669
00:34:44.960 --> 00:34:48.480
this shot. I know the stumble that happened right after

670
00:34:48.519 --> 00:34:51.159
this take and all that, and so sometimes it's hard

671
00:34:51.239 --> 00:34:54.519
to just let go of all that. Whereas you know,

672
00:34:55.000 --> 00:34:58.519
I obviously I don't have the same talent as an

673
00:34:58.519 --> 00:35:02.679
author as the great authors who I love, or you know,

674
00:35:02.760 --> 00:35:05.119
the great authors that people love, but we have the

675
00:35:05.159 --> 00:35:07.599
same tools, Like, it doesn't matter what budget I have,

676
00:35:07.719 --> 00:35:10.079
it doesn't matter, you know, we're sitting down. They've got

677
00:35:10.079 --> 00:35:12.440
a typewriter. I've got a typewriter, and so I've got

678
00:35:12.519 --> 00:35:15.360
no excuses. And so in the end, you know, you

679
00:35:15.519 --> 00:35:17.599
just got to do what you're proud of. And I

680
00:35:17.760 --> 00:35:20.880
was and am extremely proud of Ticktown. I mean, I

681
00:35:22.639 --> 00:35:25.000
it was the book I set out to write. But

682
00:35:25.960 --> 00:35:29.079
when I revisit it, whether it's for editing or you know,

683
00:35:29.079 --> 00:35:32.320
when I'm going through for whatever reason, trying to find

684
00:35:32.320 --> 00:35:34.159
a passage for a reading, which I've been doing the

685
00:35:34.199 --> 00:35:36.639
last you know, a few weeks, I just I really

686
00:35:36.719 --> 00:35:39.760
enjoy the book. I'm super, super, super proud of the book.

687
00:35:40.119 --> 00:35:44.400
And when when it's been when I've been getting feedback

688
00:35:44.440 --> 00:35:48.320
from people who I'm not related to or aren't my

689
00:35:48.400 --> 00:35:52.679
best friend, who you know, profess to enjoy it for

690
00:35:52.719 --> 00:35:55.440
the same reasons that I enjoy it, that makes me

691
00:35:55.519 --> 00:35:57.760
really happy. You know. I A lot of my reviews,

692
00:35:57.840 --> 00:35:59.760
you know, on Amazon have been things like, you know, oh,

693
00:35:59.840 --> 00:36:02.920
this this is like those great creature features from the fifties.

694
00:36:02.960 --> 00:36:05.760
You know, I just I light up when someone writes

695
00:36:05.800 --> 00:36:08.119
something like that because it's like, Yeah, you're the You're

696
00:36:08.159 --> 00:36:10.039
the one I was trying to reach. You know, You're

697
00:36:10.079 --> 00:36:14.079
the You're who this book is for, and so I've

698
00:36:14.119 --> 00:36:16.519
been real happy. But but I think you're right, especially again,

699
00:36:16.599 --> 00:36:19.679
especially as an independent author. It's like, I mean, I

700
00:36:19.679 --> 00:36:22.280
have a publisher, I have an agent now and all that,

701
00:36:22.440 --> 00:36:25.119
but nobody's beating the drum like you're beating the drum,

702
00:36:25.199 --> 00:36:26.800
you know, And no one's going to beat the drum

703
00:36:26.840 --> 00:36:28.960
like you got to beat the drum. So it's important

704
00:36:28.960 --> 00:36:30.280
to be enthusiastic. I think.

705
00:36:30.840 --> 00:36:33.840
Well. I enjoyed Ticktown as well for the reasons that

706
00:36:33.920 --> 00:36:34.400
I stated.

707
00:36:34.880 --> 00:36:38.280
Uh, it just reminded me of those older movies I

708
00:36:38.360 --> 00:36:41.880
used to watch, you know at night. Uh, And I

709
00:36:41.920 --> 00:36:44.800
had no idea what the hell they were on the couch.

710
00:36:44.840 --> 00:36:45.039
You know.

711
00:36:46.800 --> 00:36:49.320
One thing I liked about Ticktown is that it has

712
00:36:49.400 --> 00:36:54.400
its gory moments. And I was wondering because there's this

713
00:36:54.480 --> 00:36:57.920
weird sort of divide in the horror community where people

714
00:36:58.079 --> 00:37:00.079
seem to not like Gore too much, and then and

715
00:37:00.079 --> 00:37:03.079
there's the people who are more like me. I like both, Honestly,

716
00:37:03.119 --> 00:37:06.639
I like quiet horror without the Gore. Gore for Gore's

717
00:37:06.719 --> 00:37:10.880
sake can be annoying sometimes, but I also don't mind

718
00:37:10.920 --> 00:37:15.639
a good romp through like nastiness right, So what's your

719
00:37:15.920 --> 00:37:18.679
take on gore and how did you apply it?

720
00:37:18.719 --> 00:37:19.320
And ticktown.

721
00:37:20.599 --> 00:37:23.480
Yeah, it's funny. The gore question to me is like

722
00:37:23.519 --> 00:37:26.559
a really I mean, it's a kind of a key question,

723
00:37:27.280 --> 00:37:31.199
and I mean, definitely, I couldn't the playground that I

724
00:37:31.239 --> 00:37:34.400
was playing on, the pulp horror playground, you have to

725
00:37:34.440 --> 00:37:36.960
have gore, you know. I mean, you couldn't. I couldn't

726
00:37:37.000 --> 00:37:41.400
go without. But I'm a little sensitive to gore in

727
00:37:41.760 --> 00:37:47.079
terms of I don't. When we had our podcast, for example,

728
00:37:49.599 --> 00:37:53.280
it was pretty rare, but once or twice we got

729
00:37:53.320 --> 00:37:58.360
films from filmmakers that were incredibly exploitative with the gore

730
00:37:58.599 --> 00:38:04.639
and with the violence and particularly the misogynistic violence, and

731
00:38:04.679 --> 00:38:06.679
a couple of times it was kind of uncomfortable. And

732
00:38:06.719 --> 00:38:09.239
once we actually told the filmmakers, you know, thanks for

733
00:38:09.239 --> 00:38:10.920
giving us a chance to look at your movie, but

734
00:38:11.039 --> 00:38:15.039
we're not interested because we you know, and we're honest,

735
00:38:15.039 --> 00:38:17.079
we think what you're doing is exploitative, Like you don't

736
00:38:17.079 --> 00:38:18.639
really care about the rest of the movie. You just

737
00:38:18.679 --> 00:38:21.360
wanted this scene to like, you know, for pr sake,

738
00:38:23.280 --> 00:38:29.000
and so you know, so I think, of my it's funny,

739
00:38:29.039 --> 00:38:31.239
it's funny when people mentioned the gore in my book

740
00:38:31.320 --> 00:38:34.280
because to me, it was the hardest thing to write,

741
00:38:34.400 --> 00:38:37.840
because I felt like I don't know if I again,

742
00:38:38.880 --> 00:38:42.039
having never written in this field before, one you don't

743
00:38:42.039 --> 00:38:44.679
know if you're any good at it. And two, when

744
00:38:44.679 --> 00:38:46.559
you're writing this stuff, you're like, okay, am I just

745
00:38:46.760 --> 00:38:50.840
you know? Am I? Am I just writing nonsense here?

746
00:38:50.960 --> 00:38:54.559
Or is this actually painting a picture? But what I

747
00:38:54.599 --> 00:38:57.320
set out to do was I wanted gore, but I

748
00:38:57.360 --> 00:39:01.559
wanted it to be kind of over the top gore.

749
00:39:01.639 --> 00:39:05.559
I wanted it to be fun gore. And so I've

750
00:39:05.559 --> 00:39:07.960
got a lot of you know, green goo shooting out

751
00:39:08.000 --> 00:39:09.840
of the eyes of the ticks, and you know, and

752
00:39:09.880 --> 00:39:13.760
I've got you know, intestines spilling out the bottoms of

753
00:39:13.800 --> 00:39:17.280
people that have been cleaved in half. And so I

754
00:39:17.320 --> 00:39:21.400
tried to approach it again with that kind of a lightness.

755
00:39:21.760 --> 00:39:24.039
But but I really struggled with it, not whether or

756
00:39:24.039 --> 00:39:26.079
not to do it, but how to approach it. And

757
00:39:26.280 --> 00:39:29.559
just like, you know, can I even do this? You

758
00:39:29.599 --> 00:39:32.920
know that? And like trying to and writing suspense, I

759
00:39:32.960 --> 00:39:36.400
found like these are the ingredients that build a book

760
00:39:36.519 --> 00:39:39.840
like this, and I'm gonna take my best shot at it.

761
00:39:39.880 --> 00:39:41.920
But I have no idea if I'm doing it right,

762
00:39:42.239 --> 00:39:44.320
and so it isn't until people start to read it

763
00:39:44.360 --> 00:39:46.199
and say, oh, you know I liked you know that

764
00:39:46.519 --> 00:39:48.639
that You're like, okay, good, you know I pulled it off.

765
00:39:50.199 --> 00:39:53.039
But but I think that I think if I had

766
00:39:53.079 --> 00:39:56.519
to write like a you know, if I which I

767
00:39:56.559 --> 00:39:59.039
probably wouldn't do, but if I had to sit down

768
00:39:59.079 --> 00:40:03.119
and write a torture porn kind of book, I don't

769
00:40:03.119 --> 00:40:04.760
think I could do it. I think it would freeze

770
00:40:04.880 --> 00:40:09.679
up because one it makes me uncomfortable, and two, I

771
00:40:09.760 --> 00:40:12.320
just don't know how I would do it without having

772
00:40:12.440 --> 00:40:14.599
fun with it, and you don't want to, you know

773
00:40:14.760 --> 00:40:15.320
the whole point.

774
00:40:15.440 --> 00:40:16.480
I know exactly what you mean.

775
00:40:16.519 --> 00:40:19.320
I have a writer friend who loves that type stuff

776
00:40:19.320 --> 00:40:20.400
and he loves writing it.

777
00:40:20.800 --> 00:40:22.039
But I couldn't do it myself.

778
00:40:22.079 --> 00:40:25.559
Like when I write the gory stuff, it's meant to

779
00:40:25.599 --> 00:40:27.880
be over the top and fun. It's not meant to

780
00:40:27.920 --> 00:40:30.920
exploit anyone or or hurt anyone. It's just meant to

781
00:40:30.920 --> 00:40:33.920
be like, oh, this is silly, right, Yeah, but you know,

782
00:40:34.039 --> 00:40:36.239
even if there's a message or not a message whatever.

783
00:40:36.320 --> 00:40:40.679
But uh, but yeah, I totally get where you're coming

784
00:40:40.679 --> 00:40:41.159
from with that.

785
00:40:41.760 --> 00:40:43.320
Do you do find it hard to write that? I mean,

786
00:40:43.360 --> 00:40:45.280
when you're writing gore, even though you're going over the top,

787
00:40:45.400 --> 00:40:47.559
do you find it difficult that, like, oh, yeah, now

788
00:40:47.599 --> 00:40:48.639
I'm now I know what I'm doing.

789
00:40:48.880 --> 00:40:49.800
For me, it's just fun.

790
00:40:50.000 --> 00:40:54.400
Like I've always kind of lent or lean lent is

791
00:40:54.440 --> 00:40:58.960
that a word? Lent leaned towards. I always lean towards

792
00:40:59.000 --> 00:41:02.000
doing gory stories. But I just finished a novella that's

793
00:41:02.039 --> 00:41:05.159
not gory at all. It's it's got some like nastiness

794
00:41:05.199 --> 00:41:07.719
to it, but it's not. Yeah, there's no there's no intestine,

795
00:41:07.840 --> 00:41:12.639
there's no nastiness like that, right, which is actually kind

796
00:41:12.679 --> 00:41:17.119
of a first for me. So so maybe I'm evolving

797
00:41:17.159 --> 00:41:20.400
in a sense, but uh yeah, I have no problems

798
00:41:20.639 --> 00:41:21.719
with doing it myself.

799
00:41:22.039 --> 00:41:24.360
Yeah. Did you set out to do one where you're like, Okay,

800
00:41:24.400 --> 00:41:26.760
I'm gonna try this without that stuff or did it

801
00:41:26.880 --> 00:41:28.360
just is that that's how it evolved.

802
00:41:29.119 --> 00:41:31.880
It was just the way the story presented itself. There

803
00:41:31.960 --> 00:41:33.639
was no need for it, right, So if there's no

804
00:41:33.719 --> 00:41:35.599
need for it, then I'm not going to do it.

805
00:41:36.400 --> 00:41:39.280
But often, like I've always equated, like if you have

806
00:41:39.320 --> 00:41:43.199
a werewolf story, you gotta have some gore, because werewolves don't.

807
00:41:43.519 --> 00:41:45.480
They don't kill you by scaring you to death. They

808
00:41:45.760 --> 00:41:48.119
tear you in pieces. Right, So if you want to

809
00:41:48.119 --> 00:41:50.719
go into that scene where somebody's getting mauled to death,

810
00:41:50.760 --> 00:41:51.840
it's not going to be pretty.

811
00:41:52.559 --> 00:41:56.000
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, I think that's absolutely right. I

812
00:41:56.039 --> 00:41:58.679
think where I whether it be in literature or whether

813
00:41:58.760 --> 00:42:01.679
it be in you know, I've read when I was

814
00:42:01.719 --> 00:42:05.000
looking for pulpy stuff to read like that was more modern.

815
00:42:05.119 --> 00:42:07.599
After I kind of you know, sampled the kind of

816
00:42:07.599 --> 00:42:12.960
the classics, I found that it was you know, there

817
00:42:13.000 --> 00:42:16.679
was a there was a line between pulp and then

818
00:42:16.800 --> 00:42:21.199
extreme horror and and some of the extreme stuff I thought, oh,

819
00:42:21.199 --> 00:42:23.280
some of this is kind of good, but some of

820
00:42:23.280 --> 00:42:26.679
it it's like, well this is this only exists to

821
00:42:26.880 --> 00:42:29.679
like shock, you know, this is like and that was like,

822
00:42:30.719 --> 00:42:32.800
you know, to me, that's fine. I mean, if that's

823
00:42:32.800 --> 00:42:34.840
the direction you're gonna go, that's fine. It's not something

824
00:42:34.880 --> 00:42:37.159
I'm interested in. It's certainly something I would never do.

825
00:42:37.400 --> 00:42:40.360
So yeah, I can only read maybe one or two

826
00:42:40.360 --> 00:42:43.639
of those books a year, if that. The most like

827
00:42:43.679 --> 00:42:46.519
extreme stuff I read are It's hard for me to

828
00:42:46.559 --> 00:42:48.320
go into that territory. Because you don't know if you're

829
00:42:48.320 --> 00:42:49.800
going to go into something that's going to mess you

830
00:42:49.880 --> 00:42:52.079
up in the head or if it's just going to

831
00:42:52.159 --> 00:42:52.519
be fun.

832
00:42:52.920 --> 00:42:55.320
And I prefer the fun. If I'm going to go

833
00:42:55.360 --> 00:42:57.800
into the nastiness.

834
00:42:57.079 --> 00:43:01.320
Yeah sor so we're work. We're compatible on that.

835
00:43:03.480 --> 00:43:03.800
One thing.

836
00:43:03.840 --> 00:43:07.440
I want to know, because you started out writing movies,

837
00:43:08.000 --> 00:43:12.519
what was the challenge in changing from writing a movie

838
00:43:13.440 --> 00:43:14.000
to a book.

839
00:43:16.079 --> 00:43:21.559
That's a great question. I think the again, the playground

840
00:43:21.559 --> 00:43:23.079
that I decided to play on, the kind of the

841
00:43:23.079 --> 00:43:28.440
pulpy horror playground kind of was was advantageous, uh, to

842
00:43:28.519 --> 00:43:33.760
go from script writing to that, because when I started

843
00:43:33.760 --> 00:43:38.840
writing scripts, my own script, like the first the first

844
00:43:38.880 --> 00:43:42.960
movie script that I wrote for the nursery, I thank

845
00:43:42.960 --> 00:43:45.679
god I wasn't trying to sell that script because it

846
00:43:45.719 --> 00:43:48.079
was it was awful in terms of like how it

847
00:43:48.159 --> 00:43:51.000
was written. You know, I had like I had pages

848
00:43:51.239 --> 00:43:54.239
of like description and that. And you're not supposed to

849
00:43:54.239 --> 00:43:56.840
write a script like that. You know, theoretically, you're supposed

850
00:43:56.840 --> 00:44:01.880
to have four, no more than four lines to every paragraph,

851
00:44:01.960 --> 00:44:03.800
you know, no more than the four lines for every break.

852
00:44:03.880 --> 00:44:07.800
And you know, you know, short punchy, you know you're

853
00:44:07.800 --> 00:44:10.000
not you're not supposed to get into that. And so

854
00:44:10.000 --> 00:44:12.559
so as I wrote my scripts and then I wrote

855
00:44:12.639 --> 00:44:15.280
you know, some spec scripts and was trying to market

856
00:44:15.360 --> 00:44:18.480
scripts for a while, I got better at it, and

857
00:44:18.559 --> 00:44:22.599
I learned to write shorter and punchier, and and that

858
00:44:22.719 --> 00:44:29.280
really helped me moving into writing Ticktown, because, uh, that's

859
00:44:29.440 --> 00:44:31.760
kind of the approach I took to Ticktown. I wanted,

860
00:44:32.000 --> 00:44:35.199
you know, again, I was trying to recreate something that

861
00:44:35.239 --> 00:44:37.559
I that I fell in love with from those seventies

862
00:44:37.559 --> 00:44:40.960
and eighties paperbacks, and a lot of those were short, punchy,

863
00:44:41.280 --> 00:44:44.960
you know, uh, don't get flowery with your description. You know,

864
00:44:45.679 --> 00:44:48.199
in Ticktown, there's a I can probably count on one

865
00:44:48.239 --> 00:44:52.840
hand the number of like multi paragraph descriptions that I

866
00:44:52.880 --> 00:44:56.599
have of like, you know, the the hunter's shock that

867
00:44:56.719 --> 00:44:58.599
come upon in the woods. You know. I spent some

868
00:44:58.719 --> 00:45:00.880
time on that because I really wanted people to feel that,

869
00:45:01.519 --> 00:45:04.559
or the when they you know, near the in the

870
00:45:04.559 --> 00:45:07.519
third act, when the when the two heroes go into

871
00:45:07.559 --> 00:45:09.960
the ticks nest. You know, I spent a few paragraphs

872
00:45:10.039 --> 00:45:11.800
kind of trying to give a sense of that. But

873
00:45:11.840 --> 00:45:13.719
other than that, you know, it's like, oh, there's you know,

874
00:45:13.920 --> 00:45:15.920
they go into the house, they get onto the boat,

875
00:45:16.000 --> 00:45:20.360
you know, whatever whatever it is, you know, use some

876
00:45:20.400 --> 00:45:25.039
impactful verbs of you know, some some quick sentences, and

877
00:45:25.039 --> 00:45:29.840
and writing this script and then moving to to that

878
00:45:29.920 --> 00:45:34.880
form of writing of a novel was very natural. Where

879
00:45:34.960 --> 00:45:38.000
I where I think it was difficult was when I

880
00:45:38.079 --> 00:45:42.880
had to get more you know, descriptive again because I

881
00:45:42.920 --> 00:45:46.320
wasn't used to doing it. It was like, okay, you know,

882
00:45:46.519 --> 00:45:48.880
this is boy if I put if I put this

883
00:45:48.960 --> 00:45:52.199
kind of descriptive paragraph into a script, you know, I like,

884
00:45:52.320 --> 00:45:54.599
I get laughed at by you know, a producer or

885
00:45:54.639 --> 00:45:59.039
a manager. But it belongs here. So I've just got

886
00:45:59.039 --> 00:46:01.119
to be confident that it belongs here, and that I've

887
00:46:01.119 --> 00:46:02.559
got to you know, I I don't want to like

888
00:46:03.000 --> 00:46:05.559
demolish it in you know, in the in the edit.

889
00:46:07.199 --> 00:46:10.440
So that was that was difficult. But but actually I

890
00:46:10.559 --> 00:46:14.159
found that the script my scriptwriting experience was very helpful

891
00:46:14.599 --> 00:46:16.079
with this form of writing.

892
00:46:17.000 --> 00:46:20.840
Did you find it was way more solitary than working

893
00:46:20.840 --> 00:46:21.440
in the movies?

894
00:46:22.000 --> 00:46:24.360
I mean it had to have been, right, yeah, this,

895
00:46:24.519 --> 00:46:26.760
I mean there's a script writing. The way we did

896
00:46:26.800 --> 00:46:29.920
I've done it with with my movies is my partners

897
00:46:29.920 --> 00:46:33.719
and I would kind of uh we we'd pound out

898
00:46:33.760 --> 00:46:35.639
an idea together and then I would disappear and write

899
00:46:35.639 --> 00:46:38.119
a script. And then when I wrote my specscripts, I

900
00:46:38.159 --> 00:46:39.559
was just writing, you know, I was just sitting in

901
00:46:39.559 --> 00:46:42.440
my office writing scripts or at a coffee shop. And

902
00:46:42.480 --> 00:46:44.800
that's very much what it was with with the book.

903
00:46:44.960 --> 00:46:50.199
I mean, but you're absolutely right. It's uh, you know,

904
00:46:50.880 --> 00:46:52.639
I haven't done a lot of short fiction, but the

905
00:46:52.760 --> 00:46:55.199
you know, maybe a dozen short stories I had written

906
00:46:55.239 --> 00:46:57.760
and have written and had published. You know, you work

907
00:46:57.800 --> 00:46:59.679
on that for like a week, and then you do

908
00:46:59.719 --> 00:47:03.599
some and then you know, I go play times with

909
00:47:03.639 --> 00:47:05.760
my friends or something. But with a novel, you're like,

910
00:47:06.280 --> 00:47:08.679
you know, day after day, you're just kind of like

911
00:47:08.880 --> 00:47:12.719
isolated and alone. And because I don't and I don't

912
00:47:12.760 --> 00:47:14.719
know how you work, but I will. You know, it's

913
00:47:14.760 --> 00:47:17.639
hard enough for me to give something to someone to read,

914
00:47:17.760 --> 00:47:21.480
you know, So you're working on this novel. You know,

915
00:47:21.480 --> 00:47:24.280
for me, it probably the first draft took you know,

916
00:47:24.760 --> 00:47:29.199
nine months or something like that. It was like, I've

917
00:47:29.199 --> 00:47:31.760
got this thing that just keeps piling up and gets

918
00:47:31.800 --> 00:47:34.159
bigger and bigger, and I have no idea if it's

919
00:47:34.199 --> 00:47:36.159
any good, But I'm not going to get any feedback.

920
00:47:36.159 --> 00:47:38.599
I don't want any feedback from anyone until I get

921
00:47:38.719 --> 00:47:40.920
to draft three at least, because I want it. I

922
00:47:40.920 --> 00:47:43.519
don't want, you know, to be horrible, you know. And

923
00:47:43.599 --> 00:47:46.920
so you go through this process that's so isolating, and

924
00:47:47.920 --> 00:47:50.119
you have no idea what you're sitting on, and that's

925
00:47:50.159 --> 00:47:52.719
really hard, you know, just to have no idea if

926
00:47:52.719 --> 00:47:56.360
you're sitting on anything that has any value at all.

927
00:47:56.639 --> 00:48:00.280
So that that was hard. That was really hard. At

928
00:48:00.360 --> 00:48:02.159
least with my scripts. You know, you might you might

929
00:48:02.159 --> 00:48:05.559
work on a draft of a script. Uh you know,

930
00:48:05.760 --> 00:48:07.519
you might spend two months or three months working on

931
00:48:07.559 --> 00:48:08.960
a draft of the script and then at least I

932
00:48:08.960 --> 00:48:10.880
can give it to, you know, my buddy and say hey,

933
00:48:11.039 --> 00:48:12.880
you know, is there anything here and he can read

934
00:48:12.920 --> 00:48:15.480
it and say yes or no. But to get you know,

935
00:48:15.639 --> 00:48:17.480
nine months and then you know, another three or four

936
00:48:17.519 --> 00:48:20.440
while you work on the next couple of drafts without anyone,

937
00:48:20.559 --> 00:48:20.719
you know.

938
00:48:21.159 --> 00:48:21.360
I mean.

939
00:48:21.400 --> 00:48:22.960
The nightmare at the end of that is you give

940
00:48:23.000 --> 00:48:26.800
it to someone, They're like, is this really this is

941
00:48:26.800 --> 00:48:28.079
what you've been doing for the last year.

942
00:48:31.079 --> 00:48:35.639
At least don't say, uh, actually it might be good

943
00:48:35.679 --> 00:48:39.599
because you're you're if you're if you're making them respond

944
00:48:39.679 --> 00:48:42.440
with an emotion, but if it's just like if it's

945
00:48:42.440 --> 00:48:44.840
more like eh.

946
00:48:44.400 --> 00:48:47.920
You know, meh, that's bad, I think, or just a

947
00:48:48.039 --> 00:48:54.000
silent Yeah. Yeah, no, So yeah that was hard. That

948
00:48:54.079 --> 00:48:56.199
was really hard. I'm I'm you know, I've I've been

949
00:48:56.239 --> 00:48:58.679
working now for about the last year now on my

950
00:48:58.719 --> 00:49:02.159
second novel, and and it's funny, it's like right back

951
00:49:02.199 --> 00:49:04.360
into the same thing. You're like, okay now, and now

952
00:49:04.360 --> 00:49:06.239
it's the same question. It's like, okay, now, am I

953
00:49:06.320 --> 00:49:08.639
just trying to recreate what I did with the first one?

954
00:49:08.719 --> 00:49:11.639
Or you know, should it be the same structure, should

955
00:49:11.639 --> 00:49:13.599
it be completely different? Should it be you know, it's

956
00:49:13.679 --> 00:49:17.800
it's just so hard. But hey, you know, there are

957
00:49:17.800 --> 00:49:19.760
also people who work in coal mines and that's a

958
00:49:19.840 --> 00:49:21.679
hell of a lot harder than this, So you.

959
00:49:21.599 --> 00:49:23.559
Know, yeah, I would not be happy doing that.

960
00:49:24.280 --> 00:49:26.719
Yeah. Yeah.

961
00:49:26.800 --> 00:49:29.199
I want to disagree with you on one thing that

962
00:49:29.239 --> 00:49:32.880
you said on another podcast. You said that there's there's

963
00:49:32.880 --> 00:49:36.880
no deep meaning in Ticktown. There's no deep meaning in Ticktown.

964
00:49:36.920 --> 00:49:40.159
You said it was all fun and uh and and schlocky.

965
00:49:40.719 --> 00:49:43.199
But I found that there might be a bit of

966
00:49:43.239 --> 00:49:48.000
a theme around playing god and genetic engineering. Was that

967
00:49:48.840 --> 00:49:50.719
is there is there something there? Or am I just

968
00:49:50.760 --> 00:49:55.519
looking too hard for a meaning? Or maybe it was

969
00:49:55.639 --> 00:49:57.679
just like the mechanic of the story that had to

970
00:49:57.719 --> 00:49:58.079
be there.

971
00:49:58.599 --> 00:50:00.599
Well, it's definitely that you can cantish this story. I mean,

972
00:50:00.960 --> 00:50:04.280
if you will believe the pitch that I send out

973
00:50:04.559 --> 00:50:06.880
agents when I when I read that you need to

974
00:50:06.920 --> 00:50:10.119
like talk about the theme when you pitch an agent,

975
00:50:11.079 --> 00:50:13.960
then yes, there's definitely a theme like that, because I

976
00:50:14.079 --> 00:50:19.159
definitely told the agents that I pitched that that there

977
00:50:19.199 --> 00:50:21.719
was that theme. I mean, there definitely is. When honestly,

978
00:50:21.760 --> 00:50:23.679
when I sat down to write it, I was very

979
00:50:23.800 --> 00:50:28.400
much in the headspace of I kind of I started

980
00:50:28.440 --> 00:50:31.480
with the giant ticks, of course, but I also started

981
00:50:31.519 --> 00:50:35.159
with this small town, rural newspaper because I liked the

982
00:50:35.239 --> 00:50:39.440
idea of this thing that was going extinct and was

983
00:50:39.480 --> 00:50:42.639
being swallowed up by something bigger and more modern, you know,

984
00:50:43.159 --> 00:50:46.159
you know, the Internet, you know, and and and big

985
00:50:46.360 --> 00:50:50.679
newspaper conglomerates, and you know, especially the Internet is making

986
00:50:51.039 --> 00:50:53.559
these small town newspapers which used to be the heartlet

987
00:50:53.559 --> 00:50:56.320
of communities, you know, completely obsolete. And so I started

988
00:50:56.360 --> 00:50:58.440
with that, and I kind of wanted to kind of

989
00:50:58.440 --> 00:51:01.840
metaphor the you know, the tics kind of you know,

990
00:51:01.960 --> 00:51:05.440
overwhelming society. And then and then I think I got

991
00:51:05.440 --> 00:51:07.440
away from that a little bit and I started playing

992
00:51:07.480 --> 00:51:10.800
with with some of the thematics that you're talking about.

993
00:51:10.840 --> 00:51:15.760
But as as much as as much as that is there,

994
00:51:16.719 --> 00:51:19.400
I honestly didn't spend a lot of time thinking about

995
00:51:19.400 --> 00:51:23.159
that or trying to infuse that into I just wanted

996
00:51:23.159 --> 00:51:25.840
this to be fun, and I wanted it to be gonzo,

997
00:51:26.039 --> 00:51:29.440
and I wanted to be kind of crazy. But obviously,

998
00:51:29.519 --> 00:51:33.000
I mean, if you know, I don't know if we

999
00:51:33.039 --> 00:51:35.039
do spoat. You know, I haven't really even thought about

1000
00:51:35.039 --> 00:51:39.880
doing spoilers on this before, but there definitely is science,

1001
00:51:40.280 --> 00:51:42.800
you know, involved in this, and you know, maybe you

1002
00:51:42.840 --> 00:51:46.280
could even like, you know, you know, maybe it's a

1003
00:51:46.320 --> 00:51:48.679
metaphor for AI. I don't know, you know, as a writer,

1004
00:51:48.800 --> 00:51:50.639
I think I've been thinking a lot more about AI

1005
00:51:50.760 --> 00:51:53.119
the last two years and and kind of the threat

1006
00:51:53.159 --> 00:51:56.599
that it poses to, you know, people in the artistic space.

1007
00:51:56.639 --> 00:51:58.559
And maybe there's even some of that in there that

1008
00:51:58.599 --> 00:51:59.360
I wasn't aware of.

1009
00:51:59.440 --> 00:52:02.320
But maybe, yeah, that's interesting. I never thought of it

1010
00:52:02.440 --> 00:52:07.960
on that angle, but you know, you could be right, Yeah.

1011
00:52:06.519 --> 00:52:09.960
There's there's definitely I mean, you know, there's there's definitely

1012
00:52:10.960 --> 00:52:14.159
in this book there is something bigger and better that

1013
00:52:14.280 --> 00:52:18.920
might make something else extinct. And so you know that

1014
00:52:18.920 --> 00:52:21.280
can be a metaphor for a lot of things. That

1015
00:52:21.320 --> 00:52:22.840
can be a metaphor for a lot of things.

1016
00:52:23.039 --> 00:52:29.440
Do you do you think that AI could wipe out writers?

1017
00:52:30.280 --> 00:52:34.480
You know? I mean, I mean honestly, I honestly don't

1018
00:52:34.559 --> 00:52:38.400
know like how good it can really get. Like when

1019
00:52:38.440 --> 00:52:44.119
I've when I've read AI stuff, it hasn't been very good.

1020
00:52:44.239 --> 00:52:46.360
I mean it's then you know, there definitely is not

1021
00:52:46.400 --> 00:52:49.039
a spark there, and maybe it gets to a spark.

1022
00:52:49.360 --> 00:52:54.719
But I also have, you know, in publishing, right and

1023
00:52:54.800 --> 00:52:58.880
in like in the limited experience I have in publishing now,

1024
00:53:00.280 --> 00:53:03.559
like no one is just discovering my book. You know,

1025
00:53:03.840 --> 00:53:06.199
people are discovering my book because I am out there

1026
00:53:06.280 --> 00:53:08.519
beating the drum. I'm out there on social media, I'm

1027
00:53:08.519 --> 00:53:10.639
doing podcasts. You know, I'm going to be setting off

1028
00:53:10.639 --> 00:53:15.079
on a tour of Wisconsin bookstores and hopefully beyond. I'm

1029
00:53:15.159 --> 00:53:21.199
reaching out to I'm reaching out to brick and mortar

1030
00:53:21.239 --> 00:53:23.400
bookstores saying hey, will you you know, will you will

1031
00:53:23.440 --> 00:53:28.760
you shelve my book, and so I think that in

1032
00:53:28.800 --> 00:53:33.159
the current publishing environment, something that's just written entirely AI,

1033
00:53:33.360 --> 00:53:36.760
even if it's outstanding, it's like, well, there's no one there,

1034
00:53:37.119 --> 00:53:40.559
And I don't know that people will give a damn

1035
00:53:40.559 --> 00:53:45.679
about something where they can't find the author on social

1036
00:53:45.719 --> 00:53:48.000
media or they can't you know, they don't know that.

1037
00:53:48.400 --> 00:53:50.599
I just don't know. I mean my and again I'm

1038
00:53:50.639 --> 00:53:53.639
talking indie publishing. So maybe it's different with like you know,

1039
00:53:54.440 --> 00:53:56.159
the people who are but I don't think it is

1040
00:53:56.199 --> 00:54:01.119
because the whole idea, the reason that small people like me,

1041
00:54:01.280 --> 00:54:04.360
I don't know about you maybe can't get into bookstores

1042
00:54:04.440 --> 00:54:07.079
is because oh no, you don't be famous already. You know,

1043
00:54:07.239 --> 00:54:09.320
you need to be famous already to get into a bookstore.

1044
00:54:10.679 --> 00:54:14.440
So I don't know how. You know. Hopefully, hopefully AI

1045
00:54:14.519 --> 00:54:17.920
written stuff will face the same challenges I'm facing in

1046
00:54:18.000 --> 00:54:19.440
terms of finding an audience.

1047
00:54:19.719 --> 00:54:22.719
Yeah, honestly, I would like to be the ray of

1048
00:54:22.719 --> 00:54:25.239
hope or at least positivity in this. I don't think

1049
00:54:25.280 --> 00:54:30.039
it can ever mimic human emotions and human experiences. It

1050
00:54:30.159 --> 00:54:34.039
can try, but I think people are going to want

1051
00:54:34.079 --> 00:54:38.199
something deeper, even people who don't think that they're reading

1052
00:54:38.239 --> 00:54:43.039
for deeper meaning I think they are. Maybe not one

1053
00:54:43.840 --> 00:54:46.079
of readers are, but I think a good ninety five

1054
00:54:46.079 --> 00:54:49.039
percent of them are, even if they're unaware of it.

1055
00:54:49.440 --> 00:54:54.039
And I don't think AI isn't sentient, and I don't

1056
00:54:54.079 --> 00:54:56.559
think it's possible for it to become sentient when it

1057
00:54:56.559 --> 00:54:59.679
comes right down to it. So I you know, you

1058
00:54:59.719 --> 00:55:02.159
have these like these people coming out with like these

1059
00:55:02.199 --> 00:55:04.880
companies who want to publish like a thousand books a year.

1060
00:55:05.880 --> 00:55:07.719
Do you really think that those thousand books a year

1061
00:55:07.760 --> 00:55:08.320
are going to sell?

1062
00:55:08.400 --> 00:55:10.079
They're not exactly?

1063
00:55:10.239 --> 00:55:13.880
Yeah, that's that is absolutely for sure. I will say

1064
00:55:13.920 --> 00:55:19.239
I read I read something, and I won't mention names

1065
00:55:19.960 --> 00:55:22.159
by an author, an India author in the horror space

1066
00:55:22.159 --> 00:55:26.800
who's quite popular I've noticed, and when I read I

1067
00:55:26.880 --> 00:55:29.400
read one of his books, like Something came out a

1068
00:55:29.440 --> 00:55:31.239
couple of years ago, and my first thought was like, oh,

1069
00:55:31.239 --> 00:55:34.639
this is entirely AI written, because it was just so flat,

1070
00:55:34.760 --> 00:55:37.199
and but then there were so many mistakes in it.

1071
00:55:37.239 --> 00:55:39.159
I was like, well, that couldn't have been AI written. Say,

1072
00:55:39.199 --> 00:55:45.960
I wouldn't make all those mistakes, you know, But but

1073
00:55:46.559 --> 00:55:48.519
I definitely agree with you. I mean, there's something that

1074
00:55:48.599 --> 00:55:51.280
you know, even even in Ticktown, you know, you mentioned

1075
00:55:51.320 --> 00:55:55.079
the thematic stuff, I did not, you know, I mean,

1076
00:55:55.119 --> 00:55:58.880
you want the characters to be to connect with the characters,

1077
00:55:59.159 --> 00:56:03.119
but I didn't set up to write you know, you know,

1078
00:56:03.679 --> 00:56:06.559
really super fleshed out characters and relationships. But just in

1079
00:56:06.639 --> 00:56:09.559
going through the process as a person, as a writer,

1080
00:56:09.719 --> 00:56:12.000
you start to care about these characters and you start

1081
00:56:12.039 --> 00:56:16.280
wanting to give them their own personalities. And honestly, again

1082
00:56:16.320 --> 00:56:21.920
without any spoilers, every time I've edited the book, when

1083
00:56:21.960 --> 00:56:24.800
I get to the last chapter in which, you know,

1084
00:56:25.000 --> 00:56:29.320
two of the survivors are you know, kind of there's

1085
00:56:29.360 --> 00:56:32.679
a scene involving two of the survivors, I missed up

1086
00:56:32.800 --> 00:56:36.559
every time because by that point in the book, I

1087
00:56:36.599 --> 00:56:39.480
really care about those two characters, and I really love

1088
00:56:39.519 --> 00:56:42.199
those two characters, and I want them to be happy,

1089
00:56:42.280 --> 00:56:45.039
you know, moving forward. And so even as the author,

1090
00:56:45.079 --> 00:56:47.800
I find myself like wiping you know, some moisture out

1091
00:56:47.800 --> 00:56:50.599
of the corner of my eye every time that I

1092
00:56:50.679 --> 00:56:52.960
you know, went back to edit it or went back

1093
00:56:53.000 --> 00:56:55.159
to read it for proofing or whatever, and I felt

1094
00:56:55.199 --> 00:56:57.280
like an idiot every time, because it's like, dude, you

1095
00:56:57.280 --> 00:56:59.920
know what happens you know what's going on in this chap.

1096
00:57:00.280 --> 00:57:03.480
But every time I read it, you know, so, whether

1097
00:57:03.519 --> 00:57:06.400
it was by accident or just the human human part

1098
00:57:06.440 --> 00:57:09.000
of you just gets into it. And and maybe AI

1099
00:57:09.119 --> 00:57:10.159
can't do that. I don't know.

1100
00:57:10.360 --> 00:57:10.719
I don't know.

1101
00:57:10.880 --> 00:57:14.000
Yeah, I honestly don't. I think it's important to keep

1102
00:57:14.039 --> 00:57:17.800
fighting and pushing back against it. But at the same time,

1103
00:57:17.840 --> 00:57:20.880
I don't think it's ever especially if we continue pushing

1104
00:57:20.920 --> 00:57:23.239
back against it. I don't think it's gonna take over

1105
00:57:23.440 --> 00:57:26.440
like everyone fear. People feared the same thing when ebooks

1106
00:57:26.480 --> 00:57:29.280
came out. They thought it was going to replace physical books,

1107
00:57:29.320 --> 00:57:32.079
and it has yet to do that. So yeah, I'm

1108
00:57:32.119 --> 00:57:36.360
going to remain optimistic with the you know, with the

1109
00:57:36.760 --> 00:57:38.800
understanding that we still have to push back.

1110
00:57:39.320 --> 00:57:40.320
That's just my take.

1111
00:57:40.480 --> 00:57:44.119
Yeah, so, Jason, you're my computer is shutting down. I

1112
00:57:44.119 --> 00:57:46.840
don't know why. I think something is taken control and

1113
00:57:46.880 --> 00:57:50.880
it's shutting everything down. I don't uh as ayes h

1114
00:57:53.239 --> 00:57:58.119
as we go. Yeah, yeah, they're coming for us now,

1115
00:57:58.360 --> 00:57:59.719
They're coming for us right now?

1116
00:58:01.159 --> 00:58:03.920
All right, So I have I have a couple more

1117
00:58:04.000 --> 00:58:07.239
questions about Ticktown and then I'll let you go. First

1118
00:58:07.280 --> 00:58:10.599
thing is what I actually I think I know the

1119
00:58:10.599 --> 00:58:13.079
answer to this question because we pretty much discussed it.

1120
00:58:13.280 --> 00:58:15.880
But what do you want readers to take away from

1121
00:58:15.920 --> 00:58:17.000
reading Ticktown?

1122
00:58:18.239 --> 00:58:19.920
I honestly, I want them to have fun. I just

1123
00:58:19.960 --> 00:58:20.519
want them to have.

1124
00:58:20.519 --> 00:58:23.280
A good time, exactly what I thought you'd say. Yeah,

1125
00:58:23.400 --> 00:58:27.079
because it is fun. I mean yeah, I mean it's fun.

1126
00:58:27.639 --> 00:58:29.199
It's a lot of fun. I had a lot of fun.

1127
00:58:29.280 --> 00:58:31.079
I want them to look for my next book too.

1128
00:58:31.400 --> 00:58:33.079
That's the other thing I wanted to take away from it.

1129
00:58:33.280 --> 00:58:37.880
I want to read this guy's next thing.

1130
00:58:38.079 --> 00:58:38.760
Yeah.

1131
00:58:38.920 --> 00:58:42.360
Now, the next question is just for fun. If you

1132
00:58:42.400 --> 00:58:45.559
were to go to sleep tonight and tomorrow morning when

1133
00:58:45.599 --> 00:58:50.199
you wake up, you're in Ticktown? Yes, what is your

1134
00:58:50.239 --> 00:58:51.480
survival strategy?

1135
00:58:54.599 --> 00:59:00.239
Wow, what's my survival strategy for Ticktown? Well, I'm I mean,

1136
00:59:01.079 --> 00:59:02.559
first thing, I would get in my car and get

1137
00:59:02.599 --> 00:59:05.840
the hell out of town first and foremost that would

1138
00:59:05.840 --> 00:59:08.440
be Yeah. I probably my wife and daughter wouldn't be

1139
00:59:08.519 --> 00:59:12.239
so thrilled with me and that if I did that. Crisco,

1140
00:59:13.239 --> 00:59:15.840
that's right, that's right. But I would say, you know,

1141
00:59:16.760 --> 00:59:22.599
the characters that did their best in this one had

1142
00:59:22.719 --> 00:59:25.559
fire on their side, so I would probably go find

1143
00:59:25.639 --> 00:59:32.760
myself a flame thrower and U. I mean, you know, again,

1144
00:59:32.880 --> 00:59:37.119
without getting too far along with any spoilers, there's there's

1145
00:59:37.119 --> 00:59:39.400
a fair amount. There's a fair amount in Ticktown that

1146
00:59:39.480 --> 00:59:41.840
I was just not familiar with. So I was doing

1147
00:59:41.880 --> 00:59:44.119
a lot of I was doing a lot of research,

1148
00:59:44.239 --> 00:59:47.880
you know, online, And so I spent a fair amount

1149
00:59:47.920 --> 00:59:50.320
of time in the writing of Ticktown trying to find out,

1150
00:59:50.760 --> 00:59:55.800
like how one would create an explosive device to blow

1151
00:59:55.920 --> 00:59:59.360
up in the structure. And I always expected the FBI

1152
00:59:59.400 --> 01:00:02.679
to be knocking my door. But so but as part

1153
01:00:02.719 --> 01:00:05.679
of my survival strategy, I would say a flamethrower and

1154
01:00:05.800 --> 01:00:09.079
some plastic explosives would probably be a pride. I'd be

1155
01:00:09.239 --> 01:00:11.000
in decent shape. You know.

1156
01:00:11.119 --> 01:00:14.440
You know, you're in a fun or book or a movie.

1157
01:00:14.880 --> 01:00:23.239
If flamethrowers solve exactly, that's like code for fun right there.

1158
01:00:26.239 --> 01:00:26.880
All right, So.

1159
01:00:28.280 --> 01:00:29.920
I want to thank you for coming on. I had

1160
01:00:29.920 --> 01:00:33.559
a lot of fun talking with you. But before we go,

1161
01:00:33.639 --> 01:00:38.599
I want to know what's next, uh for Christopher Mechlos.

1162
01:00:38.679 --> 01:00:41.119
What can we look forward to? You mentioned that you're

1163
01:00:41.119 --> 01:00:46.199
working on your second book. You can give us any

1164
01:00:46.880 --> 01:00:49.960
any inclination as to what it might be about.

1165
01:00:50.719 --> 01:00:53.199
Sure, So the second book is also going to be

1166
01:00:53.280 --> 01:00:57.920
in the pulp horror playground. Uh, it's going to be

1167
01:00:58.000 --> 01:01:01.079
more of a lake rr sort of thing.

1168
01:01:01.360 --> 01:01:01.679
Uh.

1169
01:01:02.320 --> 01:01:05.480
Also takes place here in Wisconsin. We have a we

1170
01:01:05.559 --> 01:01:09.960
have a we don't have any great cryptids here in

1171
01:01:10.039 --> 01:01:14.960
Wisconsin legends, but we have a few. And I found,

1172
01:01:15.079 --> 01:01:17.920
uh there's a there's a there's a lake about an

1173
01:01:17.920 --> 01:01:21.360
hour from from where I live called Devil's Lake, and

1174
01:01:21.559 --> 01:01:26.280
there is supposedly a creature that lives in Devil's Lake.

1175
01:01:26.639 --> 01:01:30.280
It is not a particularly well developed legend. It's a

1176
01:01:30.320 --> 01:01:32.840
it's like one of those legends that you know, you

1177
01:01:32.920 --> 01:01:35.119
really have to struggle to find, and it only there's

1178
01:01:35.159 --> 01:01:37.119
only like, you know, a few lines here or there

1179
01:01:37.159 --> 01:01:41.840
about it. But so I decided to borrow that legend.

1180
01:01:42.599 --> 01:01:46.639
I fictionalized it doesn't take place at Devil's Lake, but

1181
01:01:46.760 --> 01:01:50.519
I but I'm I'm I've been building a book around

1182
01:01:51.480 --> 01:01:54.840
kind of a lake monster cryptid sort of story, and

1183
01:01:54.840 --> 01:01:57.119
and I again the same sort of thing. I've just

1184
01:01:57.159 --> 01:01:58.679
had a ball with it. I've just been having so

1185
01:01:58.760 --> 01:02:02.920
much fun writing it. I borrowed kind of a lot

1186
01:02:02.960 --> 01:02:05.000
of the same sort of tropes and stuff that I

1187
01:02:05.079 --> 01:02:07.840
used in Ticktown. But it's it's its own thing. It's

1188
01:02:07.880 --> 01:02:11.079
it's brand new. I do want to do a sequel

1189
01:02:11.119 --> 01:02:13.000
to Ticktown, but I didn't want to do it right away.

1190
01:02:13.679 --> 01:02:15.440
So I'm gonna do this. I've got an I've got

1191
01:02:15.440 --> 01:02:17.639
another thing planned for when I finished this, which I'm

1192
01:02:17.719 --> 01:02:21.039
which I'm almost done with, and so yeah, I'm off

1193
01:02:21.039 --> 01:02:24.320
and running. I think I think I like novel writing.

1194
01:02:24.360 --> 01:02:27.599
I've been having a real good time of being a

1195
01:02:27.639 --> 01:02:29.800
novelist these last couple of years, and so I think

1196
01:02:29.800 --> 01:02:31.159
I'm gonna stick with it for a while.

1197
01:02:31.519 --> 01:02:34.440
Awesome, Well, I'm excited for you in that venture. Are

1198
01:02:34.480 --> 01:02:38.119
there are there any uh movies in the horizon?

1199
01:02:39.079 --> 01:02:41.920
We're talking about it? We are, we we talk about it.

1200
01:02:42.599 --> 01:02:45.000
We have not settled on anything. Actually, it's funny. We

1201
01:02:45.079 --> 01:02:48.199
just got a Every every like six months or so,

1202
01:02:48.559 --> 01:02:50.519
the people who invested in our last movie will send

1203
01:02:50.559 --> 01:02:52.480
us a note and say, hey, you guys, come up

1204
01:02:52.480 --> 01:02:55.280
with any ideas yet. And I was just texting with

1205
01:02:55.320 --> 01:02:57.119
my friend Jay. I was like, oh boy, they really

1206
01:02:57.199 --> 01:02:59.239
want us to make another They really want to make

1207
01:02:59.280 --> 01:03:04.280
another movie. We should really think us on Yeah. So yeah,

1208
01:03:04.400 --> 01:03:07.840
so so we'll get there, but not nothing. Nothing is

1209
01:03:07.880 --> 01:03:11.760
on the immediate horizon. I'm I'm sticking, sticking with this.

1210
01:03:11.920 --> 01:03:15.280
It doesn't take as long I've found, and uh, it's

1211
01:03:15.320 --> 01:03:18.079
a lot cheaper to write the novel. So I've got

1212
01:03:18.079 --> 01:03:20.360
a couple more of those in me and then maybe,

1213
01:03:20.440 --> 01:03:22.800
uh maybe we'll be back on the movie in the

1214
01:03:22.840 --> 01:03:23.320
movie game.

1215
01:03:24.199 --> 01:03:26.559
All right, So before we go, where can people find

1216
01:03:26.599 --> 01:03:29.280
you online? Should they wish to keep up with whatever

1217
01:03:29.320 --> 01:03:29.719
you're doing?

1218
01:03:30.639 --> 01:03:33.079
Yeah, best place to get me is is I've got

1219
01:03:33.079 --> 01:03:36.639
a website, Christopher Michelos dot com. It's very easy. You

1220
01:03:36.679 --> 01:03:39.639
can find links to you know, Amazon and the book. There,

1221
01:03:39.679 --> 01:03:42.360
you can find links to all my social media. I'm

1222
01:03:42.400 --> 01:03:49.559
on Facebook, you know, at Facebook dot com, slash Christopherymichlis.

1223
01:03:50.079 --> 01:03:51.920
But if you just search me, if you search Ticktown,

1224
01:03:51.960 --> 01:03:53.840
you're gonna cut up with a lot of a lot

1225
01:03:53.880 --> 01:03:57.000
of my Facebook links. I'm on the Instagram, but I'm

1226
01:03:57.039 --> 01:03:59.960
probably most active on Facebook. So check me out on Facebook,

1227
01:04:00.280 --> 01:04:02.639
and then my website. I've got a blog going there.

1228
01:04:02.920 --> 01:04:05.039
We've got links to a lot of my short stories,

1229
01:04:05.400 --> 01:04:08.360
the movies and all that. So Christophermichlis dot com is

1230
01:04:08.400 --> 01:04:09.320
the best place to go.

1231
01:04:09.960 --> 01:04:13.840
Awesome, Well, before you go, I hope that when you

1232
01:04:13.880 --> 01:04:17.280
release your next book, you think of weird reads here

1233
01:04:17.320 --> 01:04:20.840
and me, and we can do this over again.

1234
01:04:21.519 --> 01:04:23.480
All I would love. This has been an absolute blast.

1235
01:04:23.480 --> 01:04:26.360
It's so much fun to talk to like minded you know,

1236
01:04:26.800 --> 01:04:30.039
writer horror lover. You know. This has been a blast.

1237
01:04:30.119 --> 01:04:31.480
So thanks so much for having.

1238
01:04:31.280 --> 01:04:34.599
Me absolutely, thank you for coming on, and thank you

1239
01:04:34.639 --> 01:04:37.119
again for your patients, and we will talk again to.

1240
01:04:40.480 --> 01:04:40.760
Well.

1241
01:04:40.800 --> 01:04:44.800
I want to thank everyone for listening to this episode

1242
01:04:45.440 --> 01:04:50.320
with Christopher Miklos and his book Ticktown. I recommend going

1243
01:04:50.360 --> 01:04:54.559
and checking out Ticktown, especially if you like giant monsters

1244
01:04:54.639 --> 01:04:58.400
or giant bugs, especially giant books. If you like giant

1245
01:04:58.440 --> 01:05:02.039
bug horror, then you're gonna like this. Before I go,

1246
01:05:02.159 --> 01:05:06.400
I wanted to mention that, well, we did talk about AI.

1247
01:05:06.800 --> 01:05:11.960
You may have noticed, and I said that I said

1248
01:05:11.960 --> 01:05:14.480
that I don't think that AI is going to ruin

1249
01:05:15.280 --> 01:05:19.840
writers very much. I don't think it's going to ruin

1250
01:05:19.880 --> 01:05:23.639
anyone's careers, at least I hope I'm not wrong on that.

1251
01:05:24.079 --> 01:05:27.719
But I do want to add that I think that artists,

1252
01:05:27.880 --> 01:05:32.199
people who draw, paint, do digital art, I think they

1253
01:05:32.280 --> 01:05:37.440
are at some serious threat. Of course, writers could fall

1254
01:05:37.480 --> 01:05:42.320
into the same thing, especially freelance writers. Freelance writers are

1255
01:05:42.360 --> 01:05:49.239
definitely they're in for a challenge, but so are freelance artists.

1256
01:05:49.280 --> 01:05:50.880
Just in the last two weeks, and I don't know,

1257
01:05:50.960 --> 01:05:53.440
I forgot to mention this while I was talking to

1258
01:05:53.599 --> 01:05:56.679
this or about this with Chris, But just in the

1259
01:05:57.000 --> 01:06:01.400
last two or three weeks, I have been approached by

1260
01:06:01.519 --> 01:06:08.159
authors with AI covers and they wanted to either be

1261
01:06:08.280 --> 01:06:11.679
on the show or for me to review their books.

1262
01:06:12.440 --> 01:06:17.920
And I didn't think I was good at identifying AI covers,

1263
01:06:18.440 --> 01:06:20.639
but I think I have actually gotten good because I

1264
01:06:20.760 --> 01:06:26.239
noticed both those covers right away, And so I just

1265
01:06:26.320 --> 01:06:30.639
wanted to mention that I'm not completely ignorant to the

1266
01:06:30.760 --> 01:06:34.960
dangers of AI And honestly, I wish AI art would

1267
01:06:35.000 --> 01:06:37.639
just go away. I'm sick of seeing it. You see

1268
01:06:37.679 --> 01:06:42.480
it all the time now more and more, I noticed

1269
01:06:42.519 --> 01:06:46.480
that quite a few podcasts are using AI art. I

1270
01:06:46.519 --> 01:06:51.800
see advertisements for new podcasts or even older ones that

1271
01:06:51.960 --> 01:06:55.480
use a ton of AI art, and I think that,

1272
01:06:56.800 --> 01:06:59.920
you know, I sort of understand to do the amount

1273
01:06:59.920 --> 01:07:02.800
of art that you want to do, that would be expensive.

1274
01:07:03.039 --> 01:07:05.440
I mean, you wouldn't be able to sustain that, but

1275
01:07:05.599 --> 01:07:08.239
you can't you get around it. Some other way, do

1276
01:07:08.280 --> 01:07:12.800
you really need that picture of that piece of AI art.

1277
01:07:14.119 --> 01:07:14.639
You don't.

1278
01:07:15.920 --> 01:07:18.599
You can make your page, your Instagram page or whatever

1279
01:07:18.679 --> 01:07:21.960
look just as neat without it, I think, and your

1280
01:07:22.000 --> 01:07:27.360
Instagram ads and your podcast logos. Just to get a

1281
01:07:27.480 --> 01:07:30.840
podcast logo, you could either create it yourself or you

1282
01:07:30.880 --> 01:07:33.920
can pay somebody to do so. Paying somebody to do

1283
01:07:34.000 --> 01:07:38.599
so helps keep food on the table for them, and

1284
01:07:38.639 --> 01:07:43.559
it also helps them avoid getting a really awful job,

1285
01:07:43.679 --> 01:07:49.119
which they probably already have. You know, there's nothing wrong

1286
01:07:49.159 --> 01:07:52.920
with wanting to create art and sell it and sell

1287
01:07:52.960 --> 01:07:59.239
your skills, obviously, and AI is obviously going to come

1288
01:07:59.519 --> 01:08:04.119
and help destroy that in certain areas. I don't know

1289
01:08:04.159 --> 01:08:08.079
about fiction yet. That is a hard one fiction writing.

1290
01:08:08.199 --> 01:08:11.480
I just don't see it happening in fiction writing. So

1291
01:08:11.679 --> 01:08:14.039
with that, I just want to make sure that we're

1292
01:08:14.079 --> 01:08:18.279
all clear on that and I'm not totally ignorant. Feel

1293
01:08:18.279 --> 01:08:21.800
free to send me an email though at Weirdreads podcast

1294
01:08:22.000 --> 01:08:24.520
at gmail dot com and let me know what you

1295
01:08:24.560 --> 01:08:30.079
think about AI and anything else that you found interesting

1296
01:08:30.079 --> 01:08:33.760
about this episode or any other episodes. So that's it

1297
01:08:33.800 --> 01:08:36.720
for now, Thank you for listening. Until next time, keep

1298
01:08:36.720 --> 01:08:40.800
being safe, and most importantly, keep being weird because weird

1299
01:08:41.560 --> 01:08:44.479
is important these days, and we'll catch you on the

1300
01:08:44.520 --> 01:09:43.039
next podcast