June 23, 2025

057 - Daniel Braum on Creatures of Liminal Space and the Art of Atmospheric Horror

057 - Daniel Braum on Creatures of Liminal Space and the Art of Atmospheric Horror
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Author Daniel Braum returns to Weird Reads to discuss his latest collection, Creatures of Liminal Space.

In this episode, we delve into the dreamlike, slow-burn nature of Braum’s horror stories, exploring how he utilizes atmosphere and ambiguity to build dread, and what “liminal horror” truly means. We also explore how his work blends speculative elements with emotional realism, and why the scariest things are sometimes the least explained. If you’re into quiet horror, ghostly metaphors, and stories that linger long after the last page, this one’s for you.

📖 Learn more about Daniel Braum at https://bloodandstardust.wordpress.com/
🔗 Get Creatures of Liminal Space at https://www.amazon.com/Creatures-Liminal-Space-Daniel-Braum/dp/1956702164/

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You're listening to the Weird Reader podcast, an extension of

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Jason's Weird Reads found on YouTube. Welcome, Hello today, I

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am joined by one of my friends that I've made

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doing these podcasts, Daniel Brahm. It's only been about a

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year and a half since you were last on. I

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had to look it up because it feels like it

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was like two or three years. How a long year

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and a half it has been. Yeah, So how have

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you been doing?

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Been doing great? Yeah? Great, Great to see you again, Jason,

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Thanks so much for having me back.

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For anyone who might not remember, or any new listeners,

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do you mind giving yourself a a brief introduction.

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Yeah, I'm Daniel Brahm. I'm a writer of short stories.

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Most of them land in the horror genre. I call

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the stories strange Tales in homage and in the lineage

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of Robert Aikman. Most of the stories are stories that

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you might come to expect or find in those old

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Twilight Zone shows. They're on the on the on the

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spectrum of quiet horror, and they're often stories with that

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are intentionally ambiguous, like psychological horror. A lot of play

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between is what's happening psychological or supernatural.

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I really love your stories because they're I think they're

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character heavy, character based stories, and also the like the strangeness,

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the weirdness, the supernaturalness. It's always so low key. Sometimes

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there's there's examples where it really comes at you, but

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for the most part, I think it's more believable, honestly

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because because when weird things happen, it's usually kind of

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low key like that. And that's what I love about

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your stories, along with the pros and your characters.

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Thank you so much. Yeah, I think I think there

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is a very similitude and in our lives, like when

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the supernatural happens often maybe humans are built to be

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like what today? Time to stop, back to life.

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Life goes on now Before we get into your writing

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and that. We were talking before we came on here

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about facebooks and Facebook posting and I wanted to comment.

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I may have commented this before, I'm not sure, but

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you post a lot on Facebook, I mean a lot,

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and most of you most of your posts are quite funny.

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I was wondering, like, do you how do you come

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up with them and maintain them with regular with regularity,

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because that's something I would like to do, just to

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keep like an engagement with like anyone who cares to read.

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Oh my, I don't know if this is the expected

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answer or not, but man, it's because if I'm not laughing,

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I'm crying. Nine out of nine, nine out of ten

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of those posts are I was gonna post something else.

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I was gonna post something that was either too personal

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a rant, too political, to this, or to that, and

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I'll either take it down or I'll stop mid sentence

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and I'll just try to find the humor in the situation.

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So it's definitely like if I'm not it's if I'm

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not laughing, I'm crying.

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I that makes a lot of sense because a lot

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of there's a lot of things that you talk about

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that you sort of make fun of. And I wouldn't

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say make fun of if you make light of, well

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not even that you just turn it into like something

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funny that could be drastically bad. But you know, you

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do go onto the serious stuff too, like when you

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can tell when something's really bothering you because there's no funniness,

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you're just yeah, straight edge here, like this is this

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is be and we need to talk about this.

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Yeah, And I guess and sometimes it's because you know,

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I yep, I you know, I live alone and sometimes

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sometimes yeah, one of the look there's there's ills about

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the modern world and social media, but sometimes sometimes it's

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all we have, you know, So it's like, yeah, sometimes

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the real event posts are yeah because it's it's a

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real event. And I appreciate Facebook and some other places

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as being the place where I really get to stay

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in touch with people. Otherwise it would be harder to do.

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So Yeah. I also noticed on Facebook recently you posted

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that your your series on your own YouTube channel, Nighttime Logic,

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the seasonal readings are coming back, which I was really

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excited to see. I'd like to We've talked about this before,

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but I would like to talk about it again because

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I think it's a really cool thing that you're doing.

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And I have to admit I've often contemplated stealing your

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idea working with it.

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What I did.

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What idea is that?

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Please? Stand please? There are no original ideas, only how

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we you know, use them.

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Just the whole concept. It's like you see uh in

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New York City, what's the name of that famous bar

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where they're always holding uh.

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Oh kgb kg b a g B.

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Yeah, there's always the live readings at the KGB, So

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this is sort of like people who can't go to KGB,

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you can just you can tune into night Time Logic

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with Daniel Brahm and catch some really cool readings there.

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Can you can you tell us what it is and

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where people can find it.

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Yeah, so Nighttime Logic. The name of the series is

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inspired by the modality that I think Robert Aikman and

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Shirley Jackson and those kind of people writing. That's the

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parts of the stories that are felt but not necessarily

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consciously processed. The term itself was coined by author. I

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believe it was comed by author Howard Waldrop if I'm

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not mistaken, and I thought it was a cool name

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for the reading series. God it's been running, maybe it's

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running almost ten years before COVID times we would do it.

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We would do Nighttime Logic in KGV bar. We did

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Nighttime Logic and the Lovecraft Bar and Gregie Village when

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it was still around. And I've been fortunate enough to

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have guests ranging from the best that we have like

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Sarah Langen, Peter Straub, Victa Laval too, people who've never

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published a short story before or I've only published one,

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so I'm really that's something that I feel really good about.

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And I also feel really good about that. Yeah, it's

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something that I'm really fortunate. I live near New York

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and I have so much available to me. But if

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you don't, sometimes he thinks can be harder. And I

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just want to be able to do a small part

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in bringing that there. So that was a surprise question.

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So I have a surprise question or two back for you.

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If I did, I was going to talk about this,

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you know, backstage when we're off. But yeah, maybe we

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could convince, uh convince you to guest host one with me.

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Or I was going to ask you if you wanted

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to be a reader one of the ones coming up.

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So absolutely that would be awesome. Yeah, just let me know.

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Yeah, we'll talk about it. We'll talk about it off

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the Animal'll set it up.

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Awesome. Now, you just are depending on when this drops.

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I was going to drop this probably around the release day,

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so we'll just say that it's out already.

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Yeah.

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You recently dropped a new collection of short stories. It's

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called Creatures of Luminal Space, and I, for the longest time,

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this is a really silly fact about me. I thought

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that luminal was spelt with a U after the L,

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and I was trying to type it out and I'm like,

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why is this not working? And of course spell check

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didn't know what I was trying to say. It was

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too early in the word where my mistake was, and

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I'm like, I does this word really exist? And then

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finally I had to look it up and I looked

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up your book and it was like, oh, spelt with

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eyes and there's no you.

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Yeah, I hopen. I do that with rock songs a lot,

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and sometimes with British British. Yeah, I'm an American, so,

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like you know, Commonwealth country sometimes have those Britishism spellings

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about them. And also being a writer, of course, my

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skill set is to be absolutely abysmal grammar and spelling.

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So you're reaching to the choir, right.

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I love it when you misspell a word. It's the

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misspelling parts at the beginning, so your word processor has

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no idea what you're trying to say, and it takes

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you five minutes to find the right spelling. Absolutely so

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Creatures of Luminal Space and I love that title though,

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because I love the idea of luminal space. This collection

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itself is a little different than most of your collections, though,

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as there's pieces of flash fiction separating the longer short stories,

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it kind of feels intentional. So I was wondering what

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inspired the creation of this collection?

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Yeah, thanks, thanks, So you know, great great layered question there,

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And yeah, the book is going to be out in

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wide release on June first, but you can definitely get

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it if the episode happens to drop earlier still, they

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can still get it or order it at the publisher,

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which is Jacket Apes Press. And I mentioned Jacket Apes

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Press because that is the answer to the question how

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the collection came about was Jacketabes Press is a micro

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small press run by illustrator and publisher Dance Hour and Dan.

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Dan is a friend and colleague of mine who I've

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been working with for a number of years. I first

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worked with Dan in the pages of a zine that

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he did called Wow Now Now now It's now it's

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slipping my mind, the The Audience Void, The Audience Void.

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He was the one of the editors for that, and

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I had a story in there, and Dan had done

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the design in illustrat and we became friends because of that,

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and I was like, Wow, something I'd love to work

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with him. And when I had the opportunity to have

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input on a cover artist for the Cemetery Dance reissue

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of The night Marchers and Other Strange Tales, I immediately

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suggested Dan for that and it was a really great experience.

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We worked really well together. Dan came up with a

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really great cover and we'd been talking, we've just been

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on the on the lookout, like, hey, we need to

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we need to do an illustrated project together. We need

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to do an illustrated project together. And I pitched him

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the idea of doing a chat book for his company,

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which is Jack and Apes Press, and they do he

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does small press stuff. He just you know, illustrated editions

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like that. And when it came time to go into

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production for the book, Creatures of Liminals Base, which is

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what you hold in your hands, here's the Dan the

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Dan Seller cover hero. It's an arc. It's got the

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bar across there. When it came time for it, we

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were having so much fun working on it and we

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were just talking about production stuff and Dan it was like, well,

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we've got we've got some extra page count. It's still

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going to be you know, we're talking about the you know,

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the numbers and the nuts and bolts. It's like, do

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you have more material? And I was like at first,

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I was like no, you know, I really don't and

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I write so slow. But during the pandemic, a friend

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of mine had helped me recover forty eight pieces of

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flash fiction. I had wrote them a long time ago

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for a project called The Daily Cabal. I don't believe

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it's still on the internet, but it was an internet

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project that ran for a few years. It was a

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bunch of writers, maybe twenty maybe give or tape writers.

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And the idea is every day a writer just had

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to you had to post a piece of flash fiction

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when it was your day, like you had some notice,

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you had a few weeks notice. So that ran for

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and this is back in you know, like like two

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two thousand seven and nine, and for a few years,

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whenever it was my day, you know, every couple of weeks,

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I had to come up with a piece of flash fiction.

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And so that that's when I wrote the stuff. And

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then when I realized that hey, this is the creatures

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a little piece of project was going to expand I thought, wow,

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maybe that's the right material for it, uh, And then

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it was a process of taking those forty eight pieces

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of flash fiction and sorting them for the project. So

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some of them you go back and you read it

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and you're like, that's a stinker. Let's let that one

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go into the garbage fail history. Okay, that one's decent,

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but that's that's that's that's wild, that's out there. So

226
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I was really sorting them to see which would fit

227
00:13:05.960 --> 00:13:09.360
perhaps thematically with the idea of creatures of liminal space.

228
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Like I was looking for stories that either had some

229
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sort of a liminality to it or some sort of

230
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a cryptid to it, or maybe one or two of

231
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them had both, and pitched it, pitched it to Dan

232
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and he really liked the idea, and it became a

233
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really unique, a different project.

234
00:13:26.919 --> 00:13:30.240
Well, that certainly is i've, I've and thank you for

235
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sending the e arc along. That was I got, So

236
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I got like a sneak peek at that's at the

237
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art that's going to be in there, and it's really beautiful.

238
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Did you have any communication with Dan about that, like

239
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what you wanted or did he read the stories and

240
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come up with his own ideas.

241
00:13:48.320 --> 00:13:55.559
Yeah. The way we worked on this was I. I

242
00:13:55.679 --> 00:14:00.399
gave him a just a very basic I think I

243
00:14:00.399 --> 00:14:02.600
think there's fifteen stories in there, so for each of them,

244
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each of the stories, I maybe gave him one lie.

245
00:14:06.679 --> 00:14:08.840
And it wasn't like, you know, do a picture of

246
00:14:08.879 --> 00:14:11.759
a bird. It was just like I just I read,

247
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I read through it, and I just I jotted a

248
00:14:13.600 --> 00:14:15.879
couple of notes of because I know the way Dan works.

249
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He works in a photo montage style and like a

250
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mosaic clage. So I just thought I thought of things

251
00:14:23.879 --> 00:14:28.320
that might might be things that might help inspire him

252
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if he didn't read the stories, or things that I

253
00:14:30.639 --> 00:14:32.600
thought would be a cool detail if he could pick

254
00:14:32.679 --> 00:14:36.279
up on. So that was that was the way we

255
00:14:36.320 --> 00:14:41.360
collaborated on them. And then with the cover was the

256
00:14:41.360 --> 00:14:44.399
thing that we was most most of a collaboration. When

257
00:14:44.399 --> 00:14:49.080
I say collaboration, you know ninety nine percent Dan, Do

258
00:14:49.120 --> 00:14:52.000
you like it? Yeah? And can we add this? Can

259
00:14:52.039 --> 00:14:54.120
we change that? So yeah, I think it's a I

260
00:14:54.159 --> 00:14:56.919
didn't collaborate with him on his amazing art, just kind

261
00:14:56.960 --> 00:15:01.320
of try to do my best to inspire him. And

262
00:15:01.360 --> 00:15:04.399
that that's what's exciting about working with Dan is like

263
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to see he has such a unique vision that I

264
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that I really like and just seeing what he comes

265
00:15:10.159 --> 00:15:12.639
up with is just so it's just so much fun.

266
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It was and it was a it was an absolute

267
00:15:15.159 --> 00:15:20.200
it was an absolute pleasure doing the project. Yeah, oh yeah,

268
00:15:20.399 --> 00:15:22.840
could I couldn't. I couldn't say anything better about the

269
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whole project.

270
00:15:23.759 --> 00:15:26.480
Well, what's that like? Like when you get to collaborate

271
00:15:26.519 --> 00:15:29.440
with somebody that you absolutely admire like that, is it

272
00:15:29.600 --> 00:15:31.679
very like it's got to be rewarding.

273
00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:34.879
Yeah, it's just rewarding and it's just exciting. Like I

274
00:15:34.879 --> 00:15:37.440
think there's two ends of the spectrum. Sometimes you can

275
00:15:37.519 --> 00:15:40.759
be like, oh my god, that's exactly what I wanted

276
00:15:40.879 --> 00:15:43.440
to see. You'd be like, wow, I always wanted an

277
00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:45.639
image like that, And the only thing better than that

278
00:15:46.120 --> 00:15:47.919
is the other end of the spectrum, when you're like,

279
00:15:48.639 --> 00:15:52.039
I had no idea I wanted to see that, but that,

280
00:15:52.240 --> 00:15:54.519
but that's awesome. I didn't think of it. I didn't

281
00:15:54.519 --> 00:15:56.840
imagine it like that, and you thought of it like that,

282
00:15:56.919 --> 00:16:00.000
and you're just like wow, that's that's where I think

283
00:16:00.080 --> 00:16:03.840
the real sparks are flying for me. I'm just like, yes,

284
00:16:05.480 --> 00:16:07.240
I had a lot of that, you know, And he's like, hey,

285
00:16:07.279 --> 00:16:09.559
what do you And Dan is so and Dan is

286
00:16:09.600 --> 00:16:12.080
so humble and so down to earth the bout He's like,

287
00:16:12.559 --> 00:16:13.759
what do you you know? When he said when you

288
00:16:13.759 --> 00:16:15.080
said through the image, He's like, Hey, what do you

289
00:16:15.080 --> 00:16:18.399
think of this? And You're just like, you're so sad.

290
00:16:21.039 --> 00:16:26.200
That's awesome. The second story, like, as we mentioned, there's

291
00:16:26.279 --> 00:16:28.120
there's some flash fictions, and I'm going to get you

292
00:16:28.159 --> 00:16:32.440
to read one in a second here because this story

293
00:16:32.480 --> 00:16:37.120
spoke to me because I've I've had instances in my

294
00:16:37.159 --> 00:16:40.200
life where I've I've suffered from like sleep paralysis and

295
00:16:41.519 --> 00:16:45.360
other kind of like nightmare syndromes. I don't know what

296
00:16:45.399 --> 00:16:47.960
else to call it other than sleep paralysis, but I

297
00:16:48.000 --> 00:16:50.759
was wondering if Breath Steeler is that about night terrors

298
00:16:50.799 --> 00:16:55.320
and late night and trus up thoughts, like deep down.

299
00:16:55.840 --> 00:16:59.279
Yeah, I think it is. Breath Steeler was one of

300
00:16:59.279 --> 00:17:03.279
those stories that when I recovered it and revisited it,

301
00:17:03.320 --> 00:17:06.039
I was I had no memory of writing it. I

302
00:17:06.079 --> 00:17:09.880
was like wow, because I, yeah, I suffer from sleep

303
00:17:10.079 --> 00:17:14.880
sleep disorders. I'm being treated, but this is before or

304
00:17:14.920 --> 00:17:17.640
maybe at the beginning of the long process of being treated.

305
00:17:18.079 --> 00:17:21.279
That's something I really feel super comfortable talking about other

306
00:17:21.640 --> 00:17:24.119
than in general ways about saying like, yeah, it's definitely

307
00:17:24.599 --> 00:17:31.160
categorically about sleep disorders, but also some of the emotion,

308
00:17:31.759 --> 00:17:34.480
the emotionality, yeah, that goes with.

309
00:17:34.480 --> 00:17:36.200
It, waking up with shadows.

310
00:17:36.799 --> 00:17:37.160
Yeah.

311
00:17:37.480 --> 00:17:41.559
Yeah. So I bugged you, as I usually do, because

312
00:17:41.559 --> 00:17:43.680
I love your readings. I was going to get you

313
00:17:43.720 --> 00:17:45.839
to read a couple of stories and this is one

314
00:17:45.839 --> 00:17:49.599
of them, breath Stealer. Oh and so if you don't mind,

315
00:17:49.880 --> 00:17:51.279
we could get into that right now.

316
00:17:51.680 --> 00:17:54.079
It's an absolute pleasure to be asked to read, and

317
00:17:54.160 --> 00:17:57.160
it's never a bugging, quite the opposite, and I'd be

318
00:17:57.160 --> 00:18:02.119
happy to read it, all right, Okay, this is a

319
00:18:02.200 --> 00:18:09.400
breath stealer from Creatures of Liminal Space. Breath Steeler comes

320
00:18:09.440 --> 00:18:13.920
at night, when the line between what is and what

321
00:18:14.519 --> 00:18:18.960
was is weakest. At first, she came to me as

322
00:18:19.000 --> 00:18:23.119
a shadowy black hat, waking me in the night, her

323
00:18:23.279 --> 00:18:27.880
jaguar weight on my belly, pause on my shoulders, immobilizing me.

324
00:18:29.279 --> 00:18:31.799
I thought she was an ancient curse I picked up

325
00:18:31.839 --> 00:18:36.160
in the deeper the rainforest, a manifestation of a vengeful spirit,

326
00:18:36.279 --> 00:18:39.519
brought home from a jungle covered pyramid on one of

327
00:18:39.519 --> 00:18:44.079
my long journeys of self discovery. Surely she was vengeance

328
00:18:44.119 --> 00:18:47.119
incarnate here because of the sins of my youth, my

329
00:18:47.440 --> 00:18:52.920
arrogance and ignorance rivaling that of the conquistadors, a trail

330
00:18:52.960 --> 00:18:57.839
of emotional destruction left in the lives I touched. I

331
00:18:57.880 --> 00:19:00.599
often woke with breath steeler pinning me, and I was

332
00:19:00.640 --> 00:19:06.160
filled with thoughts of my past transgressions, lovers, quarrels risen

333
00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:10.559
to screaming matches, low blow words gone devastatingly too far,

334
00:19:11.079 --> 00:19:15.559
the seething yet resigned look on my true loves, my

335
00:19:16.000 --> 00:19:19.640
last love's face as she left me on the side

336
00:19:19.680 --> 00:19:21.680
of the road in the middle of the night, I

337
00:19:21.759 --> 00:19:27.960
felt my air, my life, leaving along with all those things.

338
00:19:29.720 --> 00:19:33.480
Later on, I thought breast Dealer was a blessing, some

339
00:19:33.759 --> 00:19:38.119
angelic incarnation here to reward me for all the pain

340
00:19:38.279 --> 00:19:41.960
I've felt. I often woke to find an ethereal woman,

341
00:19:42.519 --> 00:19:48.119
into aphanous white hovering near me, misty, gentle hands pressing

342
00:19:48.160 --> 00:19:51.799
me with a lover's grace. Thoughts of things long gone,

343
00:19:52.480 --> 00:19:56.000
the secret things, the little moments I shared with ex

344
00:19:56.079 --> 00:19:59.720
lovers and ex friends filled me. In the last note

345
00:19:59.720 --> 00:20:03.559
my true love, my last love wrote me, she asked

346
00:20:04.720 --> 00:20:07.839
where do all the good things go. Now where do

347
00:20:07.920 --> 00:20:12.799
I put them? I ask breath Steeler this. Now she

348
00:20:12.880 --> 00:20:17.359
only kisses me, and I feel my air, my life

349
00:20:18.079 --> 00:20:22.720
leaving along with all these things. My doctor told me

350
00:20:23.000 --> 00:20:26.440
I will die if I don't do something. Not enough

351
00:20:26.440 --> 00:20:31.240
oxygen when I sleep, a condition called hyper this and

352
00:20:31.400 --> 00:20:36.480
toxic that I only know sleep is troubled. Breath Stealer

353
00:20:36.559 --> 00:20:38.680
comes to me now in a form I know well.

354
00:20:39.200 --> 00:20:42.480
I waken the night to find something that looks just

355
00:20:42.680 --> 00:20:47.799
like me sitting next to me on the bed. It

356
00:20:47.880 --> 00:20:50.440
touches my forehead with the back of its hand, and

357
00:20:50.519 --> 00:20:55.160
all the details go till all that is left are congealed,

358
00:20:55.200 --> 00:20:59.720
notions of moments of all the days, all the years,

359
00:21:00.319 --> 00:21:03.920
a life boiled down to talking points and topic sentences.

360
00:21:04.680 --> 00:21:08.039
I know now breast Dealer is not a curse nor

361
00:21:08.079 --> 00:21:12.240
a blessing. And I was born dying, as was each

362
00:21:12.279 --> 00:21:17.240
moment that passes. I sleep better now, I still know.

363
00:21:17.359 --> 00:21:20.240
Breast Dealer comes at night when the line between what

364
00:21:20.440 --> 00:21:23.240
is and what will be is shifting.

365
00:21:26.759 --> 00:21:30.960
All right? Thank you? You know that story also kind

366
00:21:30.960 --> 00:21:33.359
of reminds me of like that moment I think most

367
00:21:33.359 --> 00:21:37.640
people have when they get maybe a little bit older,

368
00:21:38.519 --> 00:21:43.160
when the realization hits that one day you're gonna die.

369
00:21:45.160 --> 00:21:46.440
What mortality gets you?

370
00:21:47.279 --> 00:21:50.160
Because I think you know that, Like my son, he

371
00:21:50.279 --> 00:21:53.279
knows that, but it hasn't set in yet. He doesn't

372
00:21:53.319 --> 00:21:56.839
have the mortal fear of that yet. He probably still

373
00:21:56.839 --> 00:22:00.359
thinks that he's immortal, as we all do when young,

374
00:22:00.400 --> 00:22:02.880
even though we know we're going to die. Like for me,

375
00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:06.359
I was thirty five, when the realization hits like this

376
00:22:06.400 --> 00:22:08.279
is going to happen. You're going to die one day.

377
00:22:09.440 --> 00:22:12.279
So it kind of reminds me of that too, Oh

378
00:22:12.279 --> 00:22:14.839
thank you, which is a kind of a dark thing.

379
00:22:16.079 --> 00:22:17.400
That's what we're here for, right.

380
00:22:18.759 --> 00:22:22.039
Not even laughing about it. It's exactly what we're here,

381
00:22:22.079 --> 00:22:25.359
you know. I mean, I think in this society and

382
00:22:25.359 --> 00:22:28.319
in this world, I think it's sort of taboo or

383
00:22:28.359 --> 00:22:31.880
it's not. It's not quote unquote polite conversation to talk

384
00:22:31.880 --> 00:22:34.599
about ommortality and death. And I think that's what leads

385
00:22:34.640 --> 00:22:37.119
to maybe a lot of negative negativity around it. And

386
00:22:37.599 --> 00:22:39.200
yeah it is, Yeah, it is a dark thing, but

387
00:22:39.880 --> 00:22:43.440
this world is light and it's dark, and I feel

388
00:22:43.440 --> 00:22:45.319
better talking about it, and I feel better when when

389
00:22:45.359 --> 00:22:48.880
when people talk about it, and uh, because it's scary.

390
00:22:49.400 --> 00:22:52.880
Yeah, it is a lot of these stories take place

391
00:22:52.920 --> 00:22:57.279
in South America in a country I think it is

392
00:22:57.319 --> 00:22:58.519
called Belize, Is that it?

393
00:22:58.960 --> 00:23:01.640
Yeah, well yeah, yeah, the longer ones are are believes.

394
00:23:02.559 --> 00:23:04.960
You've done a lot of traveling, so I'm assume I

395
00:23:05.039 --> 00:23:06.440
assume that you've been there.

396
00:23:07.480 --> 00:23:10.000
Yep. Once upon a time when I used to travel,

397
00:23:10.039 --> 00:23:14.279
I was fortunate enough to go there. Yeah.

398
00:23:14.440 --> 00:23:18.240
What, I really love these stories that take place there

399
00:23:18.279 --> 00:23:24.839
because they have that dream like quality we've spoke of before, that,

400
00:23:26.359 --> 00:23:29.480
you know, pep, even though people are awake, it's it's

401
00:23:29.480 --> 00:23:33.000
like they're moving through dreams because something kind of strange

402
00:23:33.039 --> 00:23:36.279
is happening just under the surface. And that's what I

403
00:23:36.319 --> 00:23:40.480
love about these stories. But the first half to three

404
00:23:40.599 --> 00:23:43.119
quarters of these take place there, but then it moves,

405
00:23:43.400 --> 00:23:47.000
and so the last part doesn't. I was wondering if

406
00:23:47.000 --> 00:23:49.440
this was a conscious decision or did maybe did you

407
00:23:50.079 --> 00:23:52.519
plan at first to have all the stories take place

408
00:23:52.559 --> 00:23:55.160
there but then decided not to for some reason?

409
00:23:55.759 --> 00:23:57.880
Yeah, I think it was just it was just fortuitous

410
00:23:57.880 --> 00:24:00.759
that are either either good or bad that we had

411
00:24:00.759 --> 00:24:03.440
two in Belize and you know, one in the Southwest,

412
00:24:03.519 --> 00:24:06.079
or h why couldn't we have three different places, or

413
00:24:06.079 --> 00:24:08.359
why can we had all three believes? You know, I

414
00:24:08.359 --> 00:24:11.640
think it was just when when writing the stories that

415
00:24:11.759 --> 00:24:15.039
I was they weren't being written necessarily to be together.

416
00:24:15.119 --> 00:24:18.519
They were just being written that way, and it was

417
00:24:18.559 --> 00:24:20.599
just sort of luck of the draw and sort of

418
00:24:20.599 --> 00:24:24.720
fortuitous that they seem to go together as a set.

419
00:24:25.279 --> 00:24:28.359
Yeah, it really makes like a sort of feel like

420
00:24:28.400 --> 00:24:31.319
a theme in the book. It really has like a

421
00:24:31.319 --> 00:24:35.480
feeling of that. I'm assuming that maybe was that was

422
00:24:35.519 --> 00:24:38.559
a happy accident? Then, Yeah, you know.

423
00:24:38.519 --> 00:24:41.079
What I think at first, at first of my writing,

424
00:24:41.160 --> 00:24:42.799
when people say, oh, this is a book and it

425
00:24:42.839 --> 00:24:44.359
has a theme of this or a theme of that,

426
00:24:46.759 --> 00:24:49.319
at first I would definitely say, yes, it's a happy accident.

427
00:24:49.359 --> 00:24:51.200
And I still, to answer your question directly, I still

428
00:24:51.240 --> 00:24:55.279
would say yes, it was a happy accident. But I

429
00:24:55.319 --> 00:24:57.640
felt like I was trying to set the conditions for

430
00:24:57.759 --> 00:24:59.960
that accident, like in terms of writing the three story

431
00:25:00.119 --> 00:25:02.440
that made the larger thing. I can no longer say

432
00:25:02.480 --> 00:25:07.720
it's a happy accident. Because now that I'm much older

433
00:25:07.720 --> 00:25:11.640
and more experienced and more knowledgeable about genres and modalities

434
00:25:11.640 --> 00:25:15.920
and tropes, I'm now definitely aware of the area that

435
00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:19.559
I naturally write in and I write to that, you know,

436
00:25:19.680 --> 00:25:23.240
like that's part of my process. So so to to

437
00:25:23.319 --> 00:25:28.960
have things be a strange tale, to have things be liminal,

438
00:25:29.039 --> 00:25:32.960
to have things be intentionally ambiguous, those themes are I'm

439
00:25:33.000 --> 00:25:37.559
certainly working in that intentionally. And then when I chose

440
00:25:37.599 --> 00:25:41.559
the flash fictions, I was definitely choosing the ones that

441
00:25:41.759 --> 00:25:44.319
had the natural we So yeah, I think I think

442
00:25:44.359 --> 00:25:47.400
the it was a happy accident in the drafting, but

443
00:25:47.440 --> 00:25:51.880
then in the sequencing it was much more, much more

444
00:25:52.960 --> 00:25:55.880
acting with intention and awareness trying to put that together

445
00:25:55.960 --> 00:25:56.279
that way.

446
00:25:57.160 --> 00:26:04.200
Yeah, excuse me, h, this isn't your first rodeo though

447
00:26:04.240 --> 00:26:10.960
with like exploring you know, like luminal spaces, I would

448
00:26:11.000 --> 00:26:13.000
say the majority of your work is is kind of

449
00:26:13.039 --> 00:26:15.960
an exploration of that. So I was wondering what draws

450
00:26:16.000 --> 00:26:19.960
you to explore concepts of illuminality and does it stem

451
00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:23.960
at all from personal experiences or perhaps just a fascination

452
00:26:24.720 --> 00:26:25.640
with the in between?

453
00:26:27.000 --> 00:26:29.240
I think I think all the above. I think when

454
00:26:29.240 --> 00:26:33.240
it comes back to it again, just from going back

455
00:26:33.759 --> 00:26:36.839
to the beginning of what excites me about fiction is

456
00:26:36.880 --> 00:26:41.000
before I knew any of these words or troops or

457
00:26:41.119 --> 00:26:44.359
or where what things are, which is fun for us

458
00:26:44.359 --> 00:26:48.160
as writers to you know, categorize and classify and pick

459
00:26:48.200 --> 00:26:50.000
it apart and see what makes it tick. I love

460
00:26:50.079 --> 00:26:52.240
doing that. But before I did any of that or

461
00:26:52.240 --> 00:26:54.680
even knew anything about that, I love the sort of

462
00:26:54.720 --> 00:27:01.359
stories like or movies or stories where you and your

463
00:27:01.359 --> 00:27:04.039
friends could do, like look at a story and have

464
00:27:04.119 --> 00:27:08.240
two different two totally different. Hey did you see that?

465
00:27:08.400 --> 00:27:11.519
Did you see that ghost in that story in the end? Oh,

466
00:27:11.559 --> 00:27:13.200
you thought that was a ghost? I thought that it

467
00:27:13.240 --> 00:27:16.319
was all in his mind. I'd like, Oh, I like

468
00:27:16.440 --> 00:27:19.480
loved and you're both right, like none of you are

469
00:27:19.519 --> 00:27:21.359
wrong and none of you are right, and you could

470
00:27:21.359 --> 00:27:23.720
have like a really interesting discussion. I had no idea

471
00:27:23.759 --> 00:27:25.480
what you called that or what that was. I just

472
00:27:25.680 --> 00:27:28.200
loved those kind of stories and I'd love to seek

473
00:27:28.200 --> 00:27:30.720
them out. You know, they seem to be you know,

474
00:27:31.640 --> 00:27:35.839
rarer and fewer far between. And as I became a writer,

475
00:27:36.200 --> 00:27:38.279
I realized, Oh, those are the ones that I want

476
00:27:38.279 --> 00:27:40.480
to write things like that. And as I became more

477
00:27:40.519 --> 00:27:42.359
and more experienced as a writer and more and more

478
00:27:42.480 --> 00:27:45.359
educated writer, I realized who the people were that did

479
00:27:45.359 --> 00:27:47.559
that or what that was called and where it's place was.

480
00:27:48.279 --> 00:27:52.799
Yeah, I love that that idea too, when you're talking

481
00:27:52.799 --> 00:27:56.359
about a story with somebody and they have like a

482
00:27:56.519 --> 00:27:59.759
different grasp than you, Like, I really when you said

483
00:27:59.759 --> 00:28:02.039
that about uh oh, I thought it was all in

484
00:28:02.079 --> 00:28:03.960
their head and it was like, oh my god, that's

485
00:28:03.960 --> 00:28:07.319
such a great idea, right right right, just imagine right,

486
00:28:07.400 --> 00:28:12.440
like and then you get all excited and uh.

487
00:28:11.440 --> 00:28:13.400
And you can see like, oh, okay, I'm totally wrong.

488
00:28:13.440 --> 00:28:16.160
I missed that. I missed that thing. Or yeah, you

489
00:28:16.160 --> 00:28:18.279
could be like, oh it was you know. Yeah. Just

490
00:28:18.279 --> 00:28:21.880
just it adds a level of interactivity between the self.

491
00:28:22.039 --> 00:28:23.640
I mean, there already is that thing going on, but

492
00:28:23.720 --> 00:28:26.920
it feels like there's something there's so much extra spark

493
00:28:26.960 --> 00:28:31.160
in charge of interaction between between the story and and

494
00:28:31.240 --> 00:28:33.960
the reader or and even other readers.

495
00:28:34.279 --> 00:28:38.640
Yeah, now there's there is another theme at least in

496
00:28:38.640 --> 00:28:43.119
one of the stories of addiction that I haven't really

497
00:28:43.160 --> 00:28:46.839
noticed from you too much before Creatures. Uh, this one

498
00:28:47.240 --> 00:28:51.319
tackles it directly. In Phantom Constellations, I believe, mm hmm,

499
00:28:51.559 --> 00:28:56.160
there's a there's some partaking of drugs, but it goes

500
00:28:56.279 --> 00:29:01.400
much deeper than that. Uh, can you talk to us

501
00:29:01.400 --> 00:29:02.559
a little bit about that story?

502
00:29:04.240 --> 00:29:07.519
Yeah? Yeah, Like I feel like as as you said

503
00:29:07.519 --> 00:29:09.160
that like the light and I think the light kind

504
00:29:09.200 --> 00:29:13.039
of came on outside that it's sort of like.

505
00:29:11.839 --> 00:29:14.359
A like I think is coming.

506
00:29:15.759 --> 00:29:17.960
Yeah, I know, I didn't. I didn't think of phantom

507
00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:20.000
constellations at first. For a second, I was like, oh

508
00:29:20.000 --> 00:29:22.359
my god, which story is that? I didn't think of

509
00:29:22.440 --> 00:29:25.880
phantom constellations asn't necessarily being a story about addiction, But

510
00:29:26.759 --> 00:29:28.960
how could like, wow, how could I not see that

511
00:29:29.000 --> 00:29:32.359
the main the main character is a recovered addict, and

512
00:29:32.880 --> 00:29:35.279
a lot of the spectative elopment, the whole the whole

513
00:29:35.319 --> 00:29:38.599
story is about a you know, it is about like

514
00:29:38.680 --> 00:29:43.559
a drug fuel desert adventure. You know, so drugs are

515
00:29:43.880 --> 00:29:52.720
That is a story about drugs. I didn't necessarily think about.

516
00:29:54.200 --> 00:29:57.359
I don't know a lot about addiction. I don't. I

517
00:29:58.119 --> 00:30:01.079
think when I was crafting that character, I wanted to

518
00:30:01.119 --> 00:30:05.720
have that character be I want to have him be

519
00:30:05.759 --> 00:30:08.440
a caretaker of a character, and I also wanted there

520
00:30:08.519 --> 00:30:11.440
to be a lot at stake for the character. When

521
00:30:11.480 --> 00:30:13.480
I definitely knew that this was going to be a

522
00:30:13.480 --> 00:30:16.559
story about hey, was what the character's experience real or

523
00:30:16.640 --> 00:30:19.200
was it something to do with the drugs? And what

524
00:30:19.359 --> 00:30:22.079
was at stake for this character. It made perfect sense

525
00:30:22.079 --> 00:30:28.039
that the character would be pushing himself to be able

526
00:30:28.039 --> 00:30:29.440
to do this, so like, to be able to take

527
00:30:29.480 --> 00:30:31.920
care of people who are still in the throes of

528
00:30:32.680 --> 00:30:36.319
recreational drug use is something that's probably dangerous for an addict.

529
00:30:37.000 --> 00:30:41.920
And yeah, that's where I think the decision to have

530
00:30:42.039 --> 00:30:47.240
him to have that element of addiction came from.

531
00:30:47.440 --> 00:30:50.240
Yeah, I think I liked the main character there because

532
00:30:50.240 --> 00:30:53.039
he's he's pretty strong in the fact that he was

533
00:30:53.079 --> 00:30:57.279
in a he is a recovering addict himself, and yet

534
00:30:57.319 --> 00:31:00.559
he's hanging around these people who are, like you said,

535
00:31:00.599 --> 00:31:04.759
doing recreate recreational drugs and he's like, they keep offering

536
00:31:04.839 --> 00:31:07.440
them stuff and he's like, no, I'm here to take

537
00:31:07.480 --> 00:31:10.039
care of you guys. And then there's one point where

538
00:31:10.039 --> 00:31:12.559
they're all out in the desert tripping out and he's like, yeah,

539
00:31:12.599 --> 00:31:18.160
I'm gonna go to bed now. That was that was.

540
00:31:18.400 --> 00:31:21.559
I love that story, Thank you, And you know what,

541
00:31:21.599 --> 00:31:24.480
I love it when you write about the desert. I

542
00:31:24.880 --> 00:31:28.079
still remember that one story where they were in the

543
00:31:28.119 --> 00:31:30.319
desert and they were like playing guitar under the full

544
00:31:30.400 --> 00:31:33.160
moon with those amps. That's just like, oh my god,

545
00:31:33.160 --> 00:31:35.400
that sticks in my head. Thanks.

546
00:31:36.599 --> 00:31:38.160
That was the moon in the Mesa from the night

547
00:31:38.200 --> 00:31:41.880
Marchers And yeah, yeah, Phantom Constellations is a desert story

548
00:31:41.880 --> 00:31:46.480
and creatures of limital space, and yeah, my inspiration. I

549
00:31:46.599 --> 00:31:48.720
talked about this a lot. My inspiration comes from setting,

550
00:31:48.880 --> 00:31:51.920
and the desert is just such a place of inspiration

551
00:31:52.000 --> 00:31:55.920
for me that I hope. I'm glad that that shows

552
00:31:56.000 --> 00:31:56.920
if that comes across the.

553
00:31:56.960 --> 00:32:01.519
Stories that it does, because I absolutely love your desert stories.

554
00:32:01.559 --> 00:32:04.359
Every time it's like, oh, here we're in the desert. Awesome,

555
00:32:04.640 --> 00:32:05.480
that's gonna be cool.

556
00:32:07.079 --> 00:32:08.279
Do you do.

557
00:32:08.240 --> 00:32:09.680
You get to the desert very often?

558
00:32:10.400 --> 00:32:12.240
Oh? I yearned for it. I have not been in

559
00:32:12.319 --> 00:32:15.480
a really long time. I used to live in California,

560
00:32:15.559 --> 00:32:18.480
so when I lived in California, it was relatively an

561
00:32:18.480 --> 00:32:20.640
easy thing to do. But now I'm in New York.

562
00:32:21.000 --> 00:32:22.880
It's a plane ride away, and I have not been

563
00:32:22.960 --> 00:32:25.119
in a very long time. But I think about it

564
00:32:25.160 --> 00:32:25.440
a lot.

565
00:32:25.920 --> 00:32:29.720
Yeah. Have you ever been on those overnight expeditions into

566
00:32:29.759 --> 00:32:32.440
the deep desert.

567
00:32:32.839 --> 00:32:37.440
I'm not sure what I've stayed. I've done off road camping, yeah,

568
00:32:37.559 --> 00:32:39.160
for I'm not sure if it was an expedition, but

569
00:32:39.200 --> 00:32:46.599
I've gone on my my own expeditions overnight for Yeah.

570
00:32:46.640 --> 00:32:53.480
So yeah, I guess a vision quest. Yeah yeah, did

571
00:32:53.480 --> 00:32:54.480
you ever meet God?

572
00:32:55.799 --> 00:32:57.680
No? You know, but I mean one of my vision

573
00:32:57.759 --> 00:32:59.839
quests was not even a vision quest. It was it's

574
00:33:00.240 --> 00:33:03.440
no surprise, it's not a jaguar. But I was definitely

575
00:33:03.440 --> 00:33:06.079
obsessed with mountain lions, and I was just like, Hey,

576
00:33:06.119 --> 00:33:08.240
I'm gonna where are the mountain lions where they supposed

577
00:33:08.240 --> 00:33:10.559
to be. It took all my vacation time. I think

578
00:33:10.599 --> 00:33:14.440
I spent ten days or even more doing this, like

579
00:33:14.559 --> 00:33:17.319
real off road camping looking for mountain lions. Mountain lions

580
00:33:18.039 --> 00:33:21.440
not didn't meet God, didn't meet the God of mountain lions.

581
00:33:22.319 --> 00:33:24.359
When I went back to work the next day, I

582
00:33:24.400 --> 00:33:27.400
was on my hike before work. There was a fog bank,

583
00:33:27.440 --> 00:33:30.359
and in that fog bank there was my mountain lion.

584
00:33:30.480 --> 00:33:33.960
Encountered that mountain lion, like right close to home. So

585
00:33:34.359 --> 00:33:43.079
sometimes we go seeking for adventure, and sometimes adventure finds us.

586
00:33:43.680 --> 00:33:49.319
Oh so here's a question, how does this book reflect

587
00:33:49.519 --> 00:33:53.400
your broader literary style or personal philosophy.

588
00:33:55.599 --> 00:33:59.839
Yeah, that one. That that's an easy question in that

589
00:34:00.079 --> 00:34:04.599
I feel like these these the three stories, the three

590
00:34:04.640 --> 00:34:08.280
short stories, I feel like are strange tales. And for me,

591
00:34:08.320 --> 00:34:11.960
a strange tale is a story that is meant to

592
00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:17.599
be intentionally ambiguous and can be read to be with

593
00:34:18.360 --> 00:34:23.480
question to the reader, is what happened literal supernatural? Or

594
00:34:23.519 --> 00:34:27.920
is what happened psychological? And the answer to that is

595
00:34:27.960 --> 00:34:31.960
of not consequence to the enjoyment of the story or

596
00:34:32.000 --> 00:34:38.480
to necessarily the outcome of the characters and their humanistic arts.

597
00:34:38.480 --> 00:34:41.800
So in that way, I feel I feel really good

598
00:34:41.840 --> 00:34:43.800
about these stories and that I feel like they were

599
00:34:44.039 --> 00:34:46.280
at the time of the writing, they were like my

600
00:34:46.320 --> 00:34:47.880
state of the art, Like, these are the stories I

601
00:34:47.960 --> 00:34:50.280
always wanted to write. I always wanted to write with

602
00:34:50.440 --> 00:34:57.440
awareness and control strange tales and the flash fictions act

603
00:34:57.480 --> 00:34:59.599
as a nice setting around them. The flash frictions aren't

604
00:34:59.639 --> 00:35:04.800
necessary early strange tales. They may be strange in the

605
00:35:04.800 --> 00:35:05.920
the literal sense of the word.

606
00:35:07.440 --> 00:35:14.719
Mm hmm, Okay, I think maybe it's time for another reading,

607
00:35:14.800 --> 00:35:15.280
if you're.

608
00:35:15.159 --> 00:35:16.599
Up for it, I'd love to.

609
00:35:17.239 --> 00:35:19.480
I think you chose because I chose the first one

610
00:35:19.519 --> 00:35:21.960
and you chose the second one. Yeah, I believe that's

611
00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:23.400
human impersonation day.

612
00:35:23.840 --> 00:35:28.960
Yeah, that's a great one too. That's a great strange story.

613
00:35:30.440 --> 00:35:35.599
Literal sense of the word. And yeah, let's read that one.

614
00:35:35.679 --> 00:35:38.760
And that that is actually the last story written for

615
00:35:38.960 --> 00:35:40.840
the book, so that was not even though it's a

616
00:35:40.880 --> 00:35:43.559
flash fiction, that was not one of the flash fictions

617
00:35:43.559 --> 00:35:46.079
I wrote way back when. That was a more recent

618
00:35:46.159 --> 00:35:48.639
piece of flash fiction. So let me just go to

619
00:35:48.679 --> 00:35:52.119
the table contents, call it up here, and we'll give

620
00:35:52.159 --> 00:36:02.320
it a read. This is called Human Impersonation Day, and

621
00:36:02.480 --> 00:36:05.559
I'll take this time. Let's see if let's see if

622
00:36:05.599 --> 00:36:06.960
it comes out. This is This is one of the

623
00:36:07.000 --> 00:36:11.440
illustrations when Dan Souer and I think I didn't get

624
00:36:11.440 --> 00:36:13.000
a chance to do the other one. We could do

625
00:36:13.119 --> 00:36:18.159
the illustration for Breath Stealer, which is such a cool

626
00:36:18.559 --> 00:36:27.079
interpretation of that story. So it's fun to show those illustrations.

627
00:36:27.719 --> 00:36:35.119
And here's Human Impersonation Day. Human Impersonation Day comes once

628
00:36:35.159 --> 00:36:39.719
a year. My sister and I have our pockets full

629
00:36:39.760 --> 00:36:42.599
of shiny things and are trying to get to the

630
00:36:42.679 --> 00:36:48.039
rooftop unnoticed. Last year, I made it backstage for the

631
00:36:48.159 --> 00:36:53.039
Van Halen concert at Nassau Coliseum and placed green candies

632
00:36:53.079 --> 00:36:57.480
in all the dressing rooms. She went to the Museum

633
00:36:57.480 --> 00:37:02.480
of Knives and the Catskills and left quizzical poems on

634
00:37:02.599 --> 00:37:07.320
strips of black paper for the staff. Defined that day,

635
00:37:07.519 --> 00:37:11.800
she broke the rules of reverse thieving, though, and absconded

636
00:37:12.320 --> 00:37:16.719
with one of the blades. Outside the windows of the

637
00:37:16.719 --> 00:37:20.800
New York City Skyline pretends to be permanent. Let me

638
00:37:20.840 --> 00:37:23.599
read that again. Outside the windows of the New York

639
00:37:23.599 --> 00:37:27.719
City Skyline pretends to be permanent, its reflection shimmering in

640
00:37:27.800 --> 00:37:35.320
the Hudson. The humans here are costumed in dancing. We'll

641
00:37:35.360 --> 00:37:37.239
have to weave through them to get to the stairs.

642
00:37:38.800 --> 00:37:41.880
Look that one is dressed as Edgar Allan Poe. My

643
00:37:42.000 --> 00:37:48.360
sister whispers, Poe. I say, it comes out almost like

644
00:37:48.400 --> 00:37:53.159
a human word. My sister's disappointed look shows concern I

645
00:37:53.320 --> 00:37:57.760
might blow our secret, that we are more than we seen.

646
00:38:00.400 --> 00:38:03.159
She doesn't know that I have a secret too. I

647
00:38:03.199 --> 00:38:05.519
didn't tell her the truth when I agreed to join

648
00:38:05.639 --> 00:38:13.599
her mission. Ooh, great costume, wondered you. Instead of answering,

649
00:38:14.119 --> 00:38:17.639
I give the human guarding the stairs a chocolate coin,

650
00:38:18.480 --> 00:38:22.639
a paper flower, and a squid made of sparkling gold

651
00:38:22.760 --> 00:38:28.079
sludge from my pocket. HM. Still can't let you pass.

652
00:38:28.519 --> 00:38:32.440
The King of the rooftop is up there tonight. I

653
00:38:32.519 --> 00:38:37.599
know I produce more honika gelt, a bottle cap, a

654
00:38:37.719 --> 00:38:43.119
polished dime, a priceless ancient silver coin, a steel screw

655
00:38:43.199 --> 00:38:47.719
from the glasses you lost last summer. My sister shakes

656
00:38:47.760 --> 00:38:51.840
her head condescendingly, then takes the man's hands in hers,

657
00:38:52.320 --> 00:38:56.280
looks into his mind, and gives him a glimpse of

658
00:38:56.320 --> 00:39:03.800
the world between worlds. His blue left eye widens. I

659
00:39:03.840 --> 00:39:06.920
want to poke it out and eat it. Then we

660
00:39:07.000 --> 00:39:11.719
are ascending in the inelegant manner of non winged things.

661
00:39:16.079 --> 00:39:19.199
A peacock my sister once knew, is parading on the

662
00:39:19.239 --> 00:39:23.440
line where the rooftop crosses into dreams. Things that look

663
00:39:23.519 --> 00:39:27.559
like childs impersonations of birds dance with humans on a

664
00:39:27.599 --> 00:39:33.559
mosaic floor. The tiles depict spirits eating birds, birds eating spirits,

665
00:39:33.880 --> 00:39:36.119
all of them entwined with the serpents from the king

666
00:39:36.199 --> 00:39:39.360
of the Rooftop's head. I thought we'd have to get

667
00:39:39.400 --> 00:39:45.039
him alone, spinning. Humans don't notice our approach. There dance

668
00:39:45.079 --> 00:39:49.199
mirrors their lives outside the rooftop. Those lives are mirror

669
00:39:49.239 --> 00:39:52.920
of the solar system, of the universe, of everything. My

670
00:39:53.000 --> 00:39:56.199
sister puts poems in the king's pockets, songs in his mind,

671
00:39:56.719 --> 00:40:02.000
soft pecks on his face, st how it pleases me.

672
00:40:03.199 --> 00:40:07.519
I think I will take it. Give me your knife.

673
00:40:07.880 --> 00:40:13.079
Why I'm not changing back. That's not the way this works.

674
00:40:14.239 --> 00:40:17.440
I love my sister, despite her pension for rules she

675
00:40:17.559 --> 00:40:22.320
thinks will stave off meaninglessness. I reveal my secret in

676
00:40:22.400 --> 00:40:27.199
my question, sister, will you visit me next year on

677
00:40:27.400 --> 00:40:31.159
Human Impersonation Day when I am king of this rooftop

678
00:40:32.159 --> 00:40:35.760
the peacock chortals in approval of what is about to come.

679
00:40:39.039 --> 00:40:47.440
Awesome, handclap, thank you. So do you remember writing that one?

680
00:40:47.960 --> 00:40:53.440
Yeah, that one was written pretty relatively recently, because that

681
00:40:53.519 --> 00:40:58.400
was written for it originally appeared in the Weird Fiction Quarterly.

682
00:41:00.400 --> 00:41:03.880
It's a themed a journal of weird fiction flash fiction,

683
00:41:04.000 --> 00:41:08.719
and the theme was masks, masks and disguises. So that

684
00:41:08.840 --> 00:41:11.280
was what I came up with for that issue.

685
00:41:12.400 --> 00:41:18.199
Awesome. Now, I was wondering, because we spoke briefly earlier

686
00:41:18.239 --> 00:41:22.800
about themes. I was wondering, if you have any themes

687
00:41:22.840 --> 00:41:26.159
that you would like readers to take away from when

688
00:41:26.239 --> 00:41:28.079
they read Creatures of Luminal Space.

689
00:41:29.679 --> 00:41:33.239
Just a theme of liminality, the theme of in between

690
00:41:33.519 --> 00:41:38.079
and all all of what that means you know whether

691
00:41:38.119 --> 00:41:40.559
it means, what it might mean for the characters in there,

692
00:41:42.079 --> 00:41:44.719
what it what it might mean to me when I

693
00:41:44.760 --> 00:41:48.440
wrote them, will put them together, But most importantly, if

694
00:41:48.480 --> 00:41:51.280
it inspires something in them, if they could feel something liminal,

695
00:41:51.960 --> 00:41:54.559
if it will be something that they see in there,

696
00:41:54.599 --> 00:41:57.679
like a worst blot. So I hope that they come

697
00:41:57.719 --> 00:42:00.679
away with something what that is. I just hope that

698
00:42:00.679 --> 00:42:01.519
they see something in it.

699
00:42:02.159 --> 00:42:06.119
Yeah. I also wanted to comment, like, uh, I kind

700
00:42:06.119 --> 00:42:10.159
of noticed while reading this, uh, this collection, that a

701
00:42:10.159 --> 00:42:14.320
lot of your characters they feel like drifters, almost, especially

702
00:42:14.360 --> 00:42:20.400
the Beliefs stories. It's like people find themselves there, especially

703
00:42:20.400 --> 00:42:23.960
the one with the hotel. They don't know where they're

704
00:42:23.960 --> 00:42:27.239
going to go from there. Uh, they're kind of like

705
00:42:27.360 --> 00:42:31.239
thinking about starting over? Is this? Uh? Is is this

706
00:42:32.000 --> 00:42:34.360
a continuing thread throughout a lot of your stories?

707
00:42:35.440 --> 00:42:38.400
I think I think it is. And that's not necessarily

708
00:42:40.840 --> 00:42:45.639
an intentional thing, but yeah, I mean that that that's

709
00:42:45.800 --> 00:42:49.599
that is an aspect of liminality, that's an aspect of

710
00:42:50.280 --> 00:42:52.480
I think they could make for good storytelling. You know,

711
00:42:52.480 --> 00:42:58.480
if you're at you're at a good good dynamic plots

712
00:42:58.480 --> 00:43:02.159
and dynamic characters, starts where and end up somewhere else,

713
00:43:02.880 --> 00:43:05.599
and I've always thought that is a great recipe for

714
00:43:05.679 --> 00:43:10.079
conflict and storytelling, except I don't like the nice bows

715
00:43:10.079 --> 00:43:12.480
and the nice cherry on tops on the ending, so

716
00:43:13.480 --> 00:43:16.320
it still feels like there's I like these stories. I

717
00:43:16.440 --> 00:43:20.239
like stories, and I like these stories where it feels

718
00:43:20.320 --> 00:43:24.800
like there's motion, but it doesn't necessarily feel like resolution,

719
00:43:25.440 --> 00:43:29.400
and it could feel like there's either a downward spiral

720
00:43:29.519 --> 00:43:32.079
or maybe a ray of hope. But I like I

721
00:43:32.199 --> 00:43:34.440
like that place, and I guess that's a limit that's

722
00:43:34.440 --> 00:43:37.079
still a limin old place in terms of character arc,

723
00:43:37.199 --> 00:43:39.440
or a liminal, liminal piece of fiction. Perhaps.

724
00:43:40.320 --> 00:43:43.039
I also like that you incorporate music into some of

725
00:43:43.079 --> 00:43:45.920
your stories. I like the story I just mentioned about

726
00:43:45.920 --> 00:43:51.159
the hotel and belize you know the name of that

727
00:43:51.199 --> 00:43:52.599
short story is Escaping Me.

728
00:43:52.960 --> 00:43:55.119
That was because it's because it's so easy and so

729
00:43:55.679 --> 00:43:59.199
and so concise. I believe you're talking about a locke

730
00:43:59.199 --> 00:44:03.239
Nest monster under the light of the across a bit

731
00:44:03.280 --> 00:44:06.519
of a Yes album from the nineteen seventies Mouthfuls.

732
00:44:07.119 --> 00:44:11.239
I remember talking about that before, because that is a massfhol.

733
00:44:12.119 --> 00:44:14.119
I think I was making funny like are you a

734
00:44:15.119 --> 00:44:20.000
brog rock fan, Yeah, exactly. Yeah, but I like that

735
00:44:20.039 --> 00:44:25.039
story because there is like this like acoustic sort of

736
00:44:25.079 --> 00:44:29.119
set that plays on the beach and with like a saxophone,

737
00:44:29.159 --> 00:44:31.599
I think it is. And that's just like a really cool,

738
00:44:32.360 --> 00:44:36.760
cool addition. I imagine that's something you would see down there, though, right, I.

739
00:44:36.760 --> 00:44:39.320
Don't know, I don't know. I mean to tell the

740
00:44:39.360 --> 00:44:42.800
truth that without spilling the beans, that was a bit

741
00:44:42.880 --> 00:44:45.880
of an easter egg. That was that I don't really

742
00:44:45.920 --> 00:44:49.519
write talkerizations of people, but that one of those characters

743
00:44:49.599 --> 00:44:53.760
was definitely was intended to be tends to be a

744
00:44:53.840 --> 00:44:57.199
tribute to someone, and the music he was hearing was

745
00:44:58.079 --> 00:45:00.480
a tribute to the music that that person listens to.

746
00:45:00.719 --> 00:45:04.199
So yeah, I would love it to hear some to

747
00:45:04.239 --> 00:45:07.320
hear some ghostly, ghostly music in a beautiful setting like that.

748
00:45:07.519 --> 00:45:10.760
But definitely in my dreams. It's definitely the music of

749
00:45:10.800 --> 00:45:11.599
my dreams for sure.

750
00:45:12.039 --> 00:45:18.639
Yeah, excuse me. So I really enjoyed this collection. I

751
00:45:18.679 --> 00:45:23.639
really like the idea of putting in longer works with

752
00:45:23.840 --> 00:45:27.119
pieces of flash fiction. So I was wondering if you're

753
00:45:27.159 --> 00:45:29.920
thinking of maybe releasing more collections in this style in

754
00:45:29.960 --> 00:45:30.440
the future.

755
00:45:31.360 --> 00:45:35.280
I would love to. I don't have immediate plans right now.

756
00:45:35.320 --> 00:45:47.039
But the format really worked, you know, especially all like

757
00:45:47.119 --> 00:45:50.920
the mixed media of it. Sometimes collections all of short

758
00:45:51.360 --> 00:45:55.480
or all of long, or or just illustrations could be

759
00:45:57.039 --> 00:45:58.920
too much. But I feel like this makes of three

760
00:45:59.000 --> 00:46:02.039
long and then a bunch of short and then the

761
00:46:02.039 --> 00:46:05.079
the the illustrations. It allowed me to when I was

762
00:46:05.199 --> 00:46:07.440
proofing the book and spending time with the book, it

763
00:46:07.480 --> 00:46:09.599
allowed me to approach the book in a different way.

764
00:46:09.840 --> 00:46:11.800
I can just flip through it and see the pictures,

765
00:46:12.079 --> 00:46:13.679
or I could just read a bite here and there

766
00:46:13.719 --> 00:46:16.760
with the flash, or that I could dig into it

767
00:46:16.800 --> 00:46:19.159
with the long So I would I would love to.

768
00:46:19.239 --> 00:46:21.440
I would love to revisit that. And hey, maybe I'll

769
00:46:21.440 --> 00:46:22.280
get a chance to do that.

770
00:46:22.840 --> 00:46:25.360
Yeah, hopefully you do. It was really interesting. I've seen

771
00:46:25.400 --> 00:46:29.480
it before, but like Linda Addison, I think I'm thinking

772
00:46:29.519 --> 00:46:32.440
of but she had mixed like poetry in there too.

773
00:46:32.679 --> 00:46:35.119
Do you write poetry at all? I?

774
00:46:35.559 --> 00:46:42.639
I rarely published it, but yeah, so maybe I almost

775
00:46:42.679 --> 00:46:44.679
said no, but I would say, yeah, I do, but

776
00:46:45.079 --> 00:46:48.199
nothing nothing publication minded. But yeah, I see the point

777
00:46:48.239 --> 00:46:51.519
of Yeah, like intersperson columns with long pieces operates that

778
00:46:51.559 --> 00:46:53.679
same way to a book.

779
00:46:54.159 --> 00:46:57.960
It's speaking of uh, you know, progressive rock. You could, uh,

780
00:46:58.280 --> 00:47:01.400
you could make like one big album, like something that

781
00:47:01.480 --> 00:47:04.119
feels like it's all attached and then and yet it's not.

782
00:47:05.760 --> 00:47:07.519
Yeah, yeah, like prod rock album's kind of kind of

783
00:47:07.559 --> 00:47:09.480
like the Wall, the like pink floids, the Wall kind

784
00:47:09.480 --> 00:47:12.559
of songs like the little the small little snippets of

785
00:47:13.000 --> 00:47:16.679
you know, the interstitial song pieces. That's still totally fun.

786
00:47:16.880 --> 00:47:19.519
Yeah, because this this collection kind of had that feel

787
00:47:19.559 --> 00:47:22.840
to it. I think maybe anytime people do that for

788
00:47:22.880 --> 00:47:25.920
some reason, I get that feeling of like a progressive

789
00:47:26.039 --> 00:47:26.639
rock album.

790
00:47:27.719 --> 00:47:27.960
Yeah.

791
00:47:28.119 --> 00:47:29.480
Yeah, kind of weird.

792
00:47:29.480 --> 00:47:32.440
But those long song progressive box song titles can't be

793
00:47:32.519 --> 00:47:33.400
hurting either, there.

794
00:47:33.480 --> 00:47:39.320
Yeah, right, all right, So before we go, I was wondering,

795
00:47:39.320 --> 00:47:42.440
what is there anything you've been reading lately that you'd

796
00:47:42.480 --> 00:47:46.039
like to chat about.

797
00:47:46.920 --> 00:47:51.400
Yeah. I'm fortunate enough that I've been revisiting a little

798
00:47:51.559 --> 00:47:54.199
of the Master Stephen King, and I think people can

799
00:47:54.320 --> 00:47:58.840
come to your other podcast and read some of the

800
00:47:58.840 --> 00:48:01.960
Stephen King And Yeah, I've been reading a lot. A

801
00:48:02.000 --> 00:48:07.239
lot of my colleagues work for the Nighttime Logic UH series,

802
00:48:07.280 --> 00:48:09.079
So a lot of a lot of ghost stories, a

803
00:48:09.079 --> 00:48:12.239
lot of strange tales that look forward to talking to

804
00:48:12.320 --> 00:48:13.199
people about.

805
00:48:13.400 --> 00:48:21.000
Excellent, there, awesome. I'm I'm always reading and I find

806
00:48:21.000 --> 00:48:23.280
myself reading for the show a lot. Do you find

807
00:48:23.280 --> 00:48:25.559
yourself doing that, especially when it comes time to, uh

808
00:48:26.519 --> 00:48:27.320
to do your show?

809
00:48:28.079 --> 00:48:32.920
Absolutely, absolutely so. I feel like for the for the

810
00:48:33.920 --> 00:48:37.239
doing that is, you know, it's a double blessing one.

811
00:48:37.280 --> 00:48:39.280
I just I like to do it for so many reasons.

812
00:48:39.360 --> 00:48:43.960
And sometimes in this modern life, we find ourselves xing

813
00:48:44.000 --> 00:48:46.679
out the time to do the things that we love,

814
00:48:47.199 --> 00:48:49.920
which you know, I grew up loving reading, and just

815
00:48:49.960 --> 00:48:56.000
with the so many distractions of phones, computers, tablets, shorter works,

816
00:48:56.039 --> 00:48:59.199
comic books, movies, sometimes I just I don't get I

817
00:48:59.280 --> 00:49:01.400
get out of the half bit of reading for relaxation

818
00:49:01.440 --> 00:49:05.360
and pleasure and then taking on the assignments of interviewing

819
00:49:06.000 --> 00:49:08.840
or hosting a show that I'm the sort of post

820
00:49:08.840 --> 00:49:12.800
where I, like you, I have to read in depth

821
00:49:12.840 --> 00:49:15.880
for that. So it's it's both. It's both a task,

822
00:49:15.960 --> 00:49:19.159
but it's a task that prompts me to return to

823
00:49:19.239 --> 00:49:22.920
the pleasure of it. So absolutely yes, yeah.

824
00:49:22.119 --> 00:49:24.760
Yeah, I thought, as I just said, I find myself

825
00:49:24.800 --> 00:49:27.320
doing that a lot. I also find myself where I

826
00:49:27.360 --> 00:49:30.400
have to just take a break from from doing the

827
00:49:30.480 --> 00:49:33.239
show because I am a mood reader when it comes

828
00:49:33.320 --> 00:49:37.239
down to it. And sometimes there's like these other books

829
00:49:37.280 --> 00:49:40.079
from other genres that are calling to me, and they

830
00:49:40.119 --> 00:49:42.320
call to me for months before I can get to them.

831
00:49:43.239 --> 00:49:44.599
Do you ever have that issue?

832
00:49:45.519 --> 00:49:47.840
Yeah, I'm going to go into my grave without answering

833
00:49:47.880 --> 00:49:50.440
the call all the books that call to me for sure.

834
00:49:50.480 --> 00:49:52.159
And Yeah, and I think it's great to read outside

835
00:49:52.159 --> 00:49:56.079
of our genre. I think it's important to both answer

836
00:49:56.159 --> 00:49:58.159
the call of where our interest takes us, and then

837
00:49:58.440 --> 00:50:00.000
even if there isn't a call, I think it's important

838
00:50:00.119 --> 00:50:04.119
into I think it only it will only paid dividends

839
00:50:04.159 --> 00:50:08.199
of imagination and both make us better better writers as well.

840
00:50:08.360 --> 00:50:10.400
To absolutely to go there.

841
00:50:11.320 --> 00:50:14.039
Something I'm reading, you know now, like the book that

842
00:50:14.199 --> 00:50:19.679
is like I'm reading I'm reading Isaac Bashev's Singer Stories.

843
00:50:19.920 --> 00:50:23.360
I'm doing a panel on Bascheva singer and that was

844
00:50:23.400 --> 00:50:25.360
someone I've been meaning to read for quite some time,

845
00:50:25.840 --> 00:50:31.159
the horror Stories of Ashev, a singer. So that's the

846
00:50:31.159 --> 00:50:33.039
most recent author that I've been reading.

847
00:50:33.400 --> 00:50:36.559
Excellent. So what are you working on right now?

848
00:50:36.599 --> 00:50:39.559
If you if you're able to talk about Yeah, coming

849
00:50:39.599 --> 00:50:43.320
out in the fall, it's amazing. Sometimes it's feet, sometimes

850
00:50:43.320 --> 00:50:46.760
it's famine. But in the fall. My next short story collection,

851
00:50:46.800 --> 00:50:51.559
which my fifth short story collection, is called Phantom Constellations. Yeah.

852
00:50:51.599 --> 00:50:56.000
Actually the Phantom Constellations from Creatures is also going to

853
00:50:56.039 --> 00:50:58.880
be in that book, but it's the title story of

854
00:50:58.920 --> 00:51:01.880
the next collection come out from Cemetery Dance in the fall.

855
00:51:02.239 --> 00:51:03.280
That is incredible.

856
00:51:03.320 --> 00:51:05.559
I can't just thank you so much. Yeah, just working

857
00:51:05.599 --> 00:51:08.599
on sequencing the stories and just doing the last minute

858
00:51:08.679 --> 00:51:10.280
nips and talks on that right now.

859
00:51:10.559 --> 00:51:13.239
Is it like full length short stories or full.

860
00:51:13.079 --> 00:51:14.960
On story story collection. Yeah, that's why when you ask

861
00:51:15.000 --> 00:51:17.719
about flash fiction, I'm like, well, the next one isn't

862
00:51:17.719 --> 00:51:20.480
going to have any flash fiction in it. Maybe maybe

863
00:51:20.480 --> 00:51:22.920
I'll get to sneak one into the table of contents,

864
00:51:22.960 --> 00:51:25.519
but it definitely won't be the same the same sort.

865
00:51:25.360 --> 00:51:27.360
Of thing you said that comes out in the fall.

866
00:51:28.079 --> 00:51:30.920
Yeah, I believe it's the late fall. I believe it

867
00:51:30.960 --> 00:51:34.599
is set for a November twenty twenty five release. Phantom

868
00:51:34.639 --> 00:51:37.480
Constellations from Cemetery Dance.

869
00:51:37.760 --> 00:51:39.559
Excellent. I can't wait for that. I'm excited.

870
00:51:39.559 --> 00:51:40.199
Thank you so much.

871
00:51:40.320 --> 00:51:43.000
I absolutely love like you're one of my favorite writers.

872
00:51:43.119 --> 00:51:46.400
I'm not going to lie when I'm reading you. I've

873
00:51:46.480 --> 00:51:49.559
said this to other authors, but I never lie about it.

874
00:51:50.320 --> 00:51:53.639
But one thing I love about my favorite writers is

875
00:51:53.639 --> 00:51:56.760
when a I could read like a couple of paragraphs

876
00:51:56.760 --> 00:52:00.599
and know who the author is and be the comfort

877
00:52:01.000 --> 00:52:05.119
your Your stories bring kind of an odd sense of

878
00:52:05.199 --> 00:52:09.760
comfort even when bad things are happening. It's it's it's

879
00:52:09.760 --> 00:52:12.679
like your it's just your writer's voice and your prose.

880
00:52:12.760 --> 00:52:17.159
It just it's it's a it's comforting in a weird sense.

881
00:52:17.239 --> 00:52:19.320
I don't know how else to describe it.

882
00:52:19.639 --> 00:52:22.559
Well, I mean, maybe I could corner yous of writing

883
00:52:22.599 --> 00:52:24.679
that as a blurb for me, because that's that might

884
00:52:24.719 --> 00:52:28.239
be the hugest compliment I maybe ever received, because yeah,

885
00:52:28.320 --> 00:52:30.519
you know, like I don't think a lot about why

886
00:52:30.599 --> 00:52:34.559
we write or how we write, but yeah, maybe I'd

887
00:52:34.559 --> 00:52:36.920
like to think of my My stories are maybe the

888
00:52:36.920 --> 00:52:39.119
same thing of what The Cure, the rock band, the

889
00:52:39.159 --> 00:52:41.519
Cures music gives to me. The cute people like, oh

890
00:52:41.559 --> 00:52:43.719
the Cure is depressing or it's dark. It's just I'm like,

891
00:52:43.800 --> 00:52:46.440
yeah it is. But the Cure for me is dark

892
00:52:46.480 --> 00:52:49.280
as it always is. It's always about that thin ray

893
00:52:49.320 --> 00:52:51.760
of hope and the thin ray of light in the darkness.

894
00:52:51.920 --> 00:52:54.199
And no matter how dark, I get my stories. And

895
00:52:54.400 --> 00:52:57.119
you know, reader beware or trigger warning. My stories are dark,

896
00:52:58.000 --> 00:53:02.679
but it's not My stories often are not about not

897
00:53:02.760 --> 00:53:06.000
about nilism or you know, it's always maybe about that thin,

898
00:53:06.159 --> 00:53:07.360
that thin line of hope.

899
00:53:07.639 --> 00:53:08.360
There's a balance.

900
00:53:08.840 --> 00:53:10.760
Yeah, hope, I hope, so I hope. So to hear

901
00:53:11.000 --> 00:53:12.599
to hear that you get that from the stories really

902
00:53:13.719 --> 00:53:15.760
really feels good to hear. I really appreciate it. Thank

903
00:53:15.760 --> 00:53:16.320
you so much.

904
00:53:16.639 --> 00:53:19.199
Awesome. Well, I have to tell you, man, I really

905
00:53:19.239 --> 00:53:24.320
appreciate you, and thank you for coming on. Where can

906
00:53:24.599 --> 00:53:27.119
listeners find you online?

907
00:53:27.400 --> 00:53:30.199
Yeah, you can find uh. My website is blood and

908
00:53:30.239 --> 00:53:33.920
Start Us blood and Start Us at WordPress dot com

909
00:53:34.039 --> 00:53:36.920
or blood and start Us dot WordPress dot com. Nine

910
00:53:36.960 --> 00:53:39.639
Time Logic is on YouTube. I think that's YouTube at

911
00:53:39.719 --> 00:53:45.599
Daniel Bram And I'm on social social media Instagram and

912
00:53:45.760 --> 00:53:47.400
Facebook and those kind of things.

913
00:53:47.760 --> 00:53:52.039
Awesome, all right, So thanks for coming on, and I'm

914
00:53:52.039 --> 00:53:53.719
pretty sure. I'm not too sure, but I think I

915
00:53:53.760 --> 00:53:55.559
think we'll be talking again very shortly.

916
00:53:57.639 --> 00:54:00.239
Thank you for having me back. It's a real pleasure. Yeah,

917
00:54:00.239 --> 00:54:02.440
I wonder when we'll talk

918
00:54:02.480 --> 00:55:17.679
To aplely, say than