May 6, 2025

054 - Writing Through Depression: Michael David Wilson Talks Daddy’s Boy

054 - Writing Through Depression: Michael David Wilson Talks Daddy’s Boy

Author Michael David Wilson joins Weird Reads to explore his new novel, Daddy’s Boy. In this episode, we dive into the craft behind Wilson’s emotionally raw thriller, the boundaries of genre, and his personal journey navigating depression, anxiety,...

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Season 2

Author Michael David Wilson joins Weird Reads to explore his new novel, Daddy’s Boy.
In this episode, we dive into the craft behind Wilson’s emotionally raw thriller, the boundaries of genre, and his personal journey navigating depression, anxiety, and impostor syndrome. We go beyond the scares to discuss authenticity, mental health, and resilience in horror writing. If you love character-driven horror with psychological depth, you’ll find this conversation both moving and thought-provoking. In this episode, we cover:

  • What defines horror beyond genre labels
  • Wilson’s honest reflections on mental health
  • How resilience builds in creative work
  • Behind-the-scenes of writing and publishing Daddy’s Boy

Buy Daddy's Boy: https://www.amazon.com/Daddys-Boy-Michael-David-Wilson-ebook/dp/B0DX1LJV6P/

Listen to This is Horror wherever you listen to your podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/this-is-horror-podcast/id599755380

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WEBVTT

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You're listening to the Weird Reader Podcast, an extension of

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Jason's Weird Reads found on YouTube. Welcome, Welcome to the

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Weird Reads Podcast, episode fifty four. I am very pleased

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to have Michael David Wilson on with me again talking

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about his latest book, Daddy's Boy. But we go into

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so many other topics in this conversation. I had a

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lot of fun talking with David to give you an

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idea of who Michael David Wilson is, although I suspect

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if you listen to this podcast then you are very

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familiar with who this individual is. This awesome caster and writer.

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Michael David Wilson is the founder of the popular horror

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and horror website and podcast This Is Horror. He's been

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running that since like twenty and eleven. He's one of

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the longest running author interview podcasts out there, and he's

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also one of the very first to do it. He

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is also the author of The Girl in the Video

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There Watching, which he wrote with Bob Pastorella, his co

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host for This Is Horror, and House of Bad Memories,

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and what we're discussing today Daddy's Boy. As I said,

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I had a great time talking with Michael, and I

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hope you have a great time listening. So without further ado,

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how about we just get into it. Here's my conversation

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with Michael David Wilson. Hello, today, I have a reoccurring guest,

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this second time. I'm very happy to have Michael David

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Wilson part two, and we are here to discuss his

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new release, which drops today. It's called Daddy's Boy. Are

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highly highly recommended, and I want to thank you Michael

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for sending me an e arc. I had an absolute

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blast reading this book. And welcome back to the show.

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How have things been since our last conversation?

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Yeah, thank you so much. I guess that it's been

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about eighteen months or so since the last conversation, given

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that that's when House the Bad Memories came out. And yeah,

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I mean goodness. I've been busy working away on various projects.

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Of course, I've now got Daddy's Boy out in the world. Today,

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I'm working on a collaborative novel with John Krinnen, which

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is called in a Movie. It is set in a

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sleep cafe in yakuza infested Japan, kind of as if

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the two Murakamis were collaborating on a novel as directed

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by Quentin Tarantino, and then I got another Yeah, yeah,

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I hope, so yeah, And I got another novel that

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I'm working on. There's tentatively cooled Don't Knock at the Door,

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and it's kind of funny games meets From Dust Till Dawn,

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but with a ring supernatural undercurrent. So I'm busy writing

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as the podcast as well, and just getting all these

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ideas and these creative things out into the world. So

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that's mostly what's been keeping me occupied.

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That's awesome. I kind of understand where you're coming from.

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Have you noticed lately that opportunities seem to be coming

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up a little bit more often recently for you?

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I'm not sure about that. I suppose that throughout my career,

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I've often created my own opportunities and created the jobs

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that I wanted to exist. So if I think about

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the formation of This as Horror, I wanted there to

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be a horror fiction website or magazine that was really

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covering the genre, and at the time there was only

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really black static that I was aware of, So that's

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why I created This Is Horror. Then when I wanted

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to see more in publishing and chat books and a

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novella form, and the noveletteform, I should say I created

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that publishing line. So a lot of the times, if

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there's something I want in the world and I'm not

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seeing the opportunity, then I go out and try to

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make it happen for myself. But as to whether there

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are more opportunities now, it's difficult to say, because if

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there's not an opportunity, then I just go ahead and

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do the work. Anyway, not having an opportunity doesn't stop

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me creating. I kind of create and then look for

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where's the market or what on earth am I going

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to do with this after? If we're talking more broadly, though,

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so if it's not just you know, because I don't

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know if you're asking about opportunities specifically for me or

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if you are talking about opportunities in general. There's certainly

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a lot more small presses and publishing outlets and places

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for people to get their horror fiction out into the

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world these days. Definitely a lot more than when I

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started with this as horror back in twenty eleven. For

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me specifically, I'm not sure. I think, of course, with

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every release that I have, then it kind of makes

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people more aware of the Michael David Wilson body of work.

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So then there will be people who will contact me about,

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you know, various things from stories to podcast appearances and

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the like. And I think that's how it is really

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for every writer. With each release, that's another opportunity, that's

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another ticket for success and for just getting your name

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out there. And I suppose something that I'm conscious of

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at the moment is I've had quite a lot of

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success and I'm quite well known for this as horror,

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but I'm now trying to build up the Michael David

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Wilson brand, for want of better phrasing, so that people

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are just as aware of me as a writer rather

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than just as that this is horror guy, which is

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particularly important for releases such as Dad's Boy, because even

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though I run this is horror, there's probably quite a

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strong argument with Daddy's Boy that you could say, well,

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this is not horror, this is dark comedy. So trying

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to get that distinction and to just have almost that

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separation so people know that there's very much two sides

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to me. And I would hate to mislead people too

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and for them to think I'm writing like a kind

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of straight humorless horror, because I don't think it would

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be possible for me to write anything without humor. I

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mean that's been present since my very first released the

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Girl in the video. That's been present really since I

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wrote my first stories. Humor is a part of my

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life and how I deal with things.

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Absolutely, and it really shines through. But we'll get to

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that soon. Your answer there kind of brought on another question.

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Is it difficult separating yourself from This is Horror as

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your own entity? I know you're trying, because you have

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your own Patreon right now, which I'm a member of.

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But do you feel kind of trapped by This is

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Horror at all?

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Hm?

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In regards to your writing.

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I think that I certainly felt something along the lines

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of it. If not trapped, then there was perhaps an

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expectation I'd inadvertently built. Yeah, So, I mean I started

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this as horror before I had a very solid daily

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writing practice. I've always been writing. My degree at university

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was in English literature and creative writing, so there was

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an expectation to be writing fiction every week. But then

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post university, and really from when I graduated university up

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until the time I did the One Story per Week

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Challenge in twenty sixteen, so that's about an eight year period.

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My writing was more sporadic, and there was a little

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bit of fear because it's like what if what if

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this isn't any good? What if I put it out

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into the world and then people are like, what on

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earth is going on here? This is junk? But actually

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I can say even the first time that I showed

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my first story from the One Story per Week to

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somebody and they reacted and they enjoyed it. And this

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was the first person who I showed it to, it

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just unlocked freedom and like, wow, no, I can actually

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do this, And I think, you know, where did this fear?

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Where did this doubt come from? If I'm going to

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try and unpack it, then there are two things that

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were contributors. I think. Firstly, being in that very academic

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university environment. There were some professors, not all very important

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to state, not all because there was some tremendously encouraging ones,

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but there were some who are like, you need to

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be writing literature. This, this horror nonsense is just kind

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of low form entertainment. There's no art, there's no value

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to it. You should read more of the poetry of

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Pablo Neruda, which I've said on interviews before and I

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possibly even said to you before. But it's because, like,

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you know, the recommendation of Pablo Neruda was so specific

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and bizarre to me that that moment really stands out.

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But because there were professors that were saying, you know

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that this is good art, this is bad art, essentially,

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I kind of felt like, well, I mean, I have

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a great appreciation for all literature. But then that kind

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of meant that some of these professors were probably inadvertently

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and with good intention themselves, but kind of shaming what

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I like. It's like, well, all this horror fiction that

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you're saying is junk. That's what gets me really excited.

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That's what I enjoy. Its confusing to be told that

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what you enjoy is not right. And there's a whole

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of a wider conversation on other things and other issues

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in society where people try and shame you for enjoying

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what you enjoy and for seeking pleasure in what lights

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you up. But yeah, that was certainly a factor. And

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then the other factor was as I got deeper and

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deeper with this as horror and it became relatively successful

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and well known in the genre fairly quickly, and then

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the success of the podcast also came about quite quickly.

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I felt like I'd inadvertently created this expectation where, well,

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because I'm interviewing, let's say, the greats of horror literature

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like Adam Neville and Ramsey Campbell, there might be this

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expectation that then when I'm writing, that's what I'm going

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to produce. But it never had been like that. If

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I was writing honestly and authentically, of course I could

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write a piece kind of parodying, you know, the works

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of Neville and Campbell, and maybe I could even do

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it semi competently, but it wouldn't really be me being

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authentic and true to myself. That would just it would

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kind of be similar to if I just got a

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copywriting assignment. It's like, well, write a novel in the

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voice of Adam Neville. It's going to be soulless. Really,

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it's going to lack authenticity, which is going to mean

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two things. One is never going to be as bloody

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good as an Adam Neville piece, because he is bleeding

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for that, he is putting everything into that, and it's

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never going to be as good as an authentic Michael

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David Wilson piece, because that's the real me, that's not

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me phoning it in on me trying to fake it.

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So I did feel for some time that I don't

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know that I might have just I don't know if

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it's let people down possibly a little bit, but that

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they would they would read my fiction and they would think, well,

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this isn't as good as the people who you're interviewing.

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And then there might also be this terrible effect where

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not only would they not like the writing, but then

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they'd be like, well, we can't take you as a

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authority on horror fiction either, you know, self doubt and

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things that are kind of in that nature. They can

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create a cascade of imaginary problems that are not actually

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based in reality. But it's kind of the black dog.

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It's things in that depression area that are just completely

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lying to us. And so you know, with that at

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the back of my mind, it definitely it stopped me

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writing for some time, or it in a way kind

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of newted what I was writing. It wasn't quite me.

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I was holding back. But then with the with the

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one story per week challenge, you know, I wrote a

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story a week in a year that really changed the

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game for me. And then I think, as well, yeah,

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there were people in the horror community who really accepted

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what I was doing. And I think at that point too,

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I'd realize that there are so many facets of horror.

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You know, you don't need to you know, we didn't

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have Adam Nevillon, and the next week we'd have David

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Moody on, and they're like, oh, well, David Moody's writing

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more kind of character driven pieces where it's pacier and

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there's less I suppose poetical prose. They didn't ostracize David

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Moody or they didn't get upset because Dangers Later was

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on and he's got like this beautiful brand of absurdist

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bizarro fiction. So there's kind of room at the table

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for every everyone.

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Yeah, and so.

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That, yeah, that really someone's like, I gave myself permission

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to then just write and to be myself. And that's

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the thing. It was me who was giving me permission,

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and it was me who was holding me back. There

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was never any other person who said you can't do this.

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These are all kind of imagined, well, well, apart from

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the specific professor at university. But that was many years.

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That was many years prior to that. But you know,

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if somebody says something that can wound you for a

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long time, especially if you're you're young and naive and

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you are unaware at the time that perhaps they are

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projecting their own frustrations upon other people because their book

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of obscure poetry didn't do as well as the latest

235
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Stephen King book, and now they're bitter and resentful over there.

236
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But that brings us full circle to Daddy's Boy, because

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now Dad's Boy is, without a doubt, the most comedic

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thing that I've written. And I think that each release

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definitely the Girl in the video, then House a Bad Memories,

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then Dad's Boy. I'm omitting there watching just because that

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was with Bob. It's slightly different, but other than that,

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each release has got progressively more comedic. And I would

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say that Daddy's Boy is a dark comedy with thriller

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and crime elements, whereas House of Bad Memories was a

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dark thriller crime book with comedic elements. So now it's flipped.

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But I did think, well, now now I've strayed the

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furthest that I have from traditional horror. So I just

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to have this separation between Michael David Wilson and this

249
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is horror. It doesn't mean that I'm not going to

250
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be writing horror anymore. I mean, I've just told you

251
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that one of the projects that I'm working on is

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more horror. Yeah, And I would say that Daddy's Boy

253
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is probably the most comedic thing I will ever write.

254
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I might write something as comedic as that again, but

255
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I don't think we'll go further. So people are wondering

256
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where is the comedic limit? Is probably there?

257
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Well, I find it fascinating because you know, I've gone

258
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through my own bouts of self doubt. In fact, I

259
00:19:42.920 --> 00:19:45.519
went through a very very long period of time where

260
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I didn't write anything because I just hated everything I wrote,

261
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and I stopped podcasting because I thought I was garbage.

262
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But you know what calls to me about all this

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is believing your thought. And I'm kind of glad that

264
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you're able to climb out of that hole too, because

265
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I think too many people believe the terrible things that

266
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their minds tell them. And yeah, easy to get lost

267
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in that.

268
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Yeah, And I think kind of part of what I

269
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try to do with this Sashara and also with the

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Michael David Wilson Patreon is you know, not only are

271
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they about fiction and books and creativity, but they're also

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about helping people to be able to write. I want

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to inspire people. I want people to know that actually,

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you should keep going in spite of the doubt, in

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spite of any voices telling you that you shouldn't. And

276
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you know, something I said recently is if you want

277
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to win every time that you write, then find joy

278
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in the pursuit, in the act of writing itself. Then

279
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you've got no barriers such as you know, how many

280
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copies do you sell? Do you get an agent with this?

281
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Do you get a publisher? You don't even have the

282
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barrier as there is the story any good, which is

283
00:21:21.759 --> 00:21:27.240
almost an insane question anyway. Yes, there are technical areas

284
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that can make a story better from a structure or

285
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a grammatical point of view, but in terms of if

286
00:21:34.680 --> 00:21:39.599
a story is good, that's so subjective anyway. So yeah,

287
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I mean another takeaway for people is don't try to

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please everyone, because it's an impossibility. So I think, really,

289
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as cliched as it is, if you can start in

290
00:21:54.480 --> 00:21:58.400
pleasing yourself in writing the story that you want to

291
00:21:58.440 --> 00:22:02.039
write and in finding your in writing it, that's a

292
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very good start.

293
00:22:03.839 --> 00:22:08.119
Yeah. That actually brings up another good point because like

294
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on a book tube book tube, there's a lot of

295
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channels that come and go. They come and go pretty

296
00:22:16.480 --> 00:22:21.079
quickly too sometimes, and a lot of people are chasing

297
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the end game where they're going to be doing, you know,

298
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making videos full time. They're gonna have sponsors, they're going

299
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to have you know, endorsements, and of course the ads

300
00:22:33.000 --> 00:22:34.680
and all that, and when that doesn't come as fast

301
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as they want, they're out. And I've always said, you

302
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have to enjoy what you're doing first. You have to

303
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enjoy the process or you're not going to get anywhere.

304
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You're going to be frustrated and you're going to heat it.

305
00:22:46.400 --> 00:22:48.720
And I think it applies to writing very much. So

306
00:22:48.920 --> 00:22:51.160
like when I first started writing way back in like

307
00:22:51.200 --> 00:22:53.440
two thousand, it was the same thing for me. I

308
00:22:53.480 --> 00:22:56.559
was thinking of the end goal, not the journey. And

309
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I've come to uh, I've come to realize that it's

310
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all about the journey.

311
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Yeah. I think if you're doing it primarily to make

312
00:23:07.119 --> 00:23:11.000
money and that is your main motivator, then you're in

313
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the wrong game. Also, if you're doing it only to

314
00:23:15.400 --> 00:23:22.519
make money, it's going to influence the decisions that you make,

315
00:23:22.759 --> 00:23:26.039
the things that you write, and then it's going to

316
00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:29.079
probably to go back to what I said near the start,

317
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mean that you're not being authentic or you're zapping the joy.

318
00:23:34.799 --> 00:23:39.519
If I'm just writing a to order book, well, I

319
00:23:39.559 --> 00:23:42.920
could be having any job at that point. And if

320
00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:45.279
I could have any job, then I might as well

321
00:23:45.640 --> 00:23:50.160
choose a job where it's going to reward me financially.

322
00:23:50.960 --> 00:23:55.240
You know, it's to a greater extent than just you know,

323
00:23:55.440 --> 00:23:59.839
ghost writing a book or whatever it happens to be.

324
00:24:00.720 --> 00:24:03.880
It's not to shame people who do ghost write books.

325
00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:06.640
You know, there's a lot of good writers I know

326
00:24:06.799 --> 00:24:12.240
who do that. But I'm I'm just saying for me personally,

327
00:24:12.319 --> 00:24:17.559
when I'm writing that is that is primarily for joy. Yes,

328
00:24:17.759 --> 00:24:21.799
secondarily I would like to make money from it. That

329
00:24:22.079 --> 00:24:25.640
is a concern, but it can't be the driving force

330
00:24:25.759 --> 00:24:30.839
for me and for what I'm doing. And you know,

331
00:24:31.000 --> 00:24:36.839
recently I've realized that I've I've kind of staked my

332
00:24:37.200 --> 00:24:43.559
entire career on my writing and on my writing being

333
00:24:43.640 --> 00:24:48.119
a success. Because there are certain choices that I've made

334
00:24:49.319 --> 00:24:53.640
that have meant that I've gone with writing as opposed

335
00:24:53.720 --> 00:24:59.599
to money. Essentially. You know, when I got out of university,

336
00:25:00.680 --> 00:25:05.240
I for the first year I did a kind of

337
00:25:05.359 --> 00:25:09.279
soulless office job, and I thought, I, I can't just

338
00:25:09.400 --> 00:25:15.720
do this. I didn't go through school and university to

339
00:25:16.079 --> 00:25:22.480
just be like this monotonous office job. What am I

340
00:25:22.599 --> 00:25:25.119
going to do? And I wasn't entirely sure what I

341
00:25:25.200 --> 00:25:28.720
was going to do, and I thought, well, I'd quite

342
00:25:28.799 --> 00:25:31.119
like some money, So why don't I do a graduate

343
00:25:31.160 --> 00:25:37.240
diploma in law? So I spent a year to get

344
00:25:37.279 --> 00:25:41.640
this essentially the equivalent of a law degree. And what

345
00:25:41.759 --> 00:25:45.079
did I learn in that year? I learned that I

346
00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:49.720
absolutely didn't want to be a lawyer. You know, this

347
00:25:49.880 --> 00:25:53.079
is just boring, This is a time suck, this isn't

348
00:25:54.480 --> 00:25:59.680
this isn't driving me, this isn't fulfilling me. And so

349
00:26:00.240 --> 00:26:05.480
that relatively expensive lesson because it's not cheap to go

350
00:26:05.599 --> 00:26:07.440
through law school.

351
00:26:07.839 --> 00:26:09.920
I've been there, not in law school, but I've gone

352
00:26:09.960 --> 00:26:16.680
to college and I know, yeah, I know, yeah.

353
00:26:14.240 --> 00:26:17.799
But but I realized this isn't what I want to do,

354
00:26:18.680 --> 00:26:23.119
and that there's a recurring theme in my life that

355
00:26:23.200 --> 00:26:29.440
whenever I deviate away from creativity or from writing, I

356
00:26:29.599 --> 00:26:33.920
just feel unfulfilled. And so the cooling is for me

357
00:26:34.079 --> 00:26:39.759
to follow my creativity and my writing. That's kind of

358
00:26:39.759 --> 00:26:44.359
what I have to do. And you know that the

359
00:26:44.440 --> 00:26:47.640
longer I do it, the more. Like like you said,

360
00:26:47.680 --> 00:26:50.000
there are some people who are on book Cube and

361
00:26:50.039 --> 00:26:53.200
they're like, I'm not reaching the end game or I'm

362
00:26:53.240 --> 00:26:57.839
not able to do this full time. And you know,

363
00:26:58.079 --> 00:27:02.000
for me, every time I write something like I said,

364
00:27:02.000 --> 00:27:04.720
it's a ticket. It's a ticket to that big break

365
00:27:05.079 --> 00:27:09.519
because it only takes one book to go viral or

366
00:27:09.559 --> 00:27:13.279
to sell in such numbers that it just raises your

367
00:27:13.440 --> 00:27:19.559
entire stock and you're set. But you know, there's the

368
00:27:19.640 --> 00:27:24.680
possibility that that might not happen. There's the possibility that

369
00:27:24.799 --> 00:27:28.319
it might. So it's a kind of fifty to fifty game,

370
00:27:29.279 --> 00:27:32.000
a fifty to fifty game where with each book that

371
00:27:32.079 --> 00:27:36.279
you write, you increase your chances of some sense. But

372
00:27:36.400 --> 00:27:41.000
I did ask myself, well, well, what if I never

373
00:27:41.799 --> 00:27:46.000
make it in inverticmas, what if I don't have a

374
00:27:46.039 --> 00:27:51.160
big breakthrough, You know what, I'll I'll have way less

375
00:27:51.240 --> 00:27:55.319
money than I could have had if I'd taken a

376
00:27:55.359 --> 00:28:02.720
different path. But what then, and I don't Well, if

377
00:28:02.759 --> 00:28:07.240
that is the case, then I have pretty much enjoyed

378
00:28:07.480 --> 00:28:11.680
every day of my life because I've been writing, and

379
00:28:11.759 --> 00:28:16.799
I've been creative, and I've been putting this art and

380
00:28:16.839 --> 00:28:21.680
these stories into the world that make me incredibly happy

381
00:28:21.880 --> 00:28:25.359
and that you know, make other people happy too from

382
00:28:25.400 --> 00:28:31.119
the feedback that I'm getting. So if I don't make it,

383
00:28:31.200 --> 00:28:36.119
if I don't end up being really rich or a

384
00:28:36.319 --> 00:28:40.240
New York Times bestseller or whatever metric you want to

385
00:28:40.279 --> 00:28:47.200
put on, then I've still won. I'm successful because I

386
00:28:47.359 --> 00:28:50.599
enjoyed every day in my life. I enjoyed all the

387
00:28:50.720 --> 00:28:53.640
work that I did, and that aren't that many people

388
00:28:54.640 --> 00:28:59.400
that can say that. And you know, I might not

389
00:28:59.640 --> 00:29:05.839
be really, really wealthy, but if I've got enough to eat,

390
00:29:05.960 --> 00:29:11.559
if I've got enough to provide for my family, money

391
00:29:11.680 --> 00:29:17.559
is overrated. Money is so overrated, and we kind of

392
00:29:17.599 --> 00:29:21.960
think that we need more of it than we actually do.

393
00:29:23.119 --> 00:29:27.400
And if we find that what makes us happy isn't

394
00:29:27.440 --> 00:29:30.160
that much like the less you need to make you happy,

395
00:29:30.200 --> 00:29:33.599
the more you win at life. And kind of what

396
00:29:33.839 --> 00:29:38.039
I what I need to make me happy is pretty simple.

397
00:29:39.200 --> 00:29:45.599
I like good coffee, I like writing, and I like,

398
00:29:46.480 --> 00:29:49.680
I like good food, but I'm also a reasonable cook,

399
00:29:49.799 --> 00:29:52.599
so it doesn't require me having to go to a restaurant.

400
00:29:52.640 --> 00:29:57.119
As long as I can buy decent quality ingredients, then

401
00:29:57.160 --> 00:30:01.079
I'm fairly set. And I like getting out in nature,

402
00:30:01.240 --> 00:30:04.759
which is typically free depends where you live, I suppose,

403
00:30:04.920 --> 00:30:08.680
but the barriers to entry aren't so high, and that

404
00:30:08.680 --> 00:30:12.480
that's kind of it, yeah, kind of all I need.

405
00:30:12.759 --> 00:30:19.759
So of course, like more money, most people aren't going

406
00:30:19.839 --> 00:30:23.200
to say no to it, but they you don't need

407
00:30:23.279 --> 00:30:24.119
that much, so.

408
00:30:26.240 --> 00:30:31.240
Pay the bills. Yeah, a decent life if you if

409
00:30:31.240 --> 00:30:36.319
you're here, yeah, yeah, and of course take care of yourself.

410
00:30:37.200 --> 00:30:42.160
That's that's it. Yeah. So I mean for people listening

411
00:30:42.279 --> 00:30:45.680
or watching, I'd just say, ask yourself, why are you

412
00:30:45.799 --> 00:30:50.599
finding joy in the pursuit of writing or in the

413
00:30:50.640 --> 00:30:55.200
pursuit of creating YouTube videos or podcasting or or art

414
00:30:55.400 --> 00:30:59.880
or whatever it is that you're doing. And if you are,

415
00:31:00.160 --> 00:31:03.359
then really hold on to that joy and remember that

416
00:31:03.359 --> 00:31:08.519
that means that what you're doing it makes you successful.

417
00:31:08.680 --> 00:31:14.279
That is the end goal you have won. And if

418
00:31:14.279 --> 00:31:20.480
you're not finding joy, then perhaps perhaps readjust and ask yourself,

419
00:31:21.279 --> 00:31:25.880
why not are there things that you're compromising. Perhaps go

420
00:31:26.079 --> 00:31:30.319
back to, you know, when you're a child or whenever

421
00:31:30.359 --> 00:31:35.079
you first found joy in writing. What was it that

422
00:31:36.160 --> 00:31:40.000
kind of unlocked that joy for you? What barriers have

423
00:31:40.079 --> 00:31:43.680
you now put in the way. Perhaps it's that you

424
00:31:44.680 --> 00:31:48.920
are seeking an agent or a publisher to the detriment

425
00:31:49.079 --> 00:31:53.400
of the story. Perhaps if you've got a podcast or

426
00:31:53.440 --> 00:31:58.200
a YouTube channel, you're you're concentrating on the metrics and

427
00:31:58.279 --> 00:32:01.640
the numbers too much, be it views per video, be

428
00:32:01.799 --> 00:32:07.279
it subscribers, And maybe you're now making decisions in terms

429
00:32:07.319 --> 00:32:12.319
of the content that you put out that that happens. Yeah, yeah,

430
00:32:12.400 --> 00:32:17.319
and then you're just like, you know, making like ten

431
00:32:17.920 --> 00:32:21.359
must read horror books for the summer because you think

432
00:32:21.359 --> 00:32:25.240
it's got a catchy title that SEO will like. But

433
00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:28.920
really what you want to do is make a video

434
00:32:29.920 --> 00:32:35.119
that's looking at the philosophical insight that can be found

435
00:32:35.480 --> 00:32:37.680
in the fiction of Eric Larka.

436
00:32:38.559 --> 00:32:43.440
Yeah, exactly, just do that. And the fint thing, it's

437
00:32:43.440 --> 00:32:45.440
funny you bring that up because I used to be

438
00:32:45.519 --> 00:32:51.480
that guy. I was the guy before just say, we'll

439
00:32:51.519 --> 00:32:53.920
just say two three years ago up to seven years

440
00:32:53.920 --> 00:32:55.920
ago or eight years ago when I started my channel,

441
00:32:56.160 --> 00:32:59.680
come up with all these top ten lists and you know,

442
00:33:00.319 --> 00:33:04.640
great summertime reading things like that. And I got a

443
00:33:04.640 --> 00:33:07.599
fair amount of subscribers just doing that, but it became

444
00:33:09.640 --> 00:33:13.119
became I don't know, it became tiresome and really wanted

445
00:33:13.160 --> 00:33:16.599
I want. What I wanted to do was explore more

446
00:33:16.799 --> 00:33:21.799
into genre and to writers. And so if if anyone

447
00:33:21.920 --> 00:33:25.200
like listening has perused my channel recently, you've noticed I

448
00:33:25.200 --> 00:33:28.519
haven't been uploading those types of videos at all. In fact,

449
00:33:28.720 --> 00:33:32.000
it's mostly stuff like this. I do deep dives and

450
00:33:32.119 --> 00:33:36.519
two genres with some friends I've made, and I talked

451
00:33:36.519 --> 00:33:39.880
to authors, and I've started a new podcast. Not to

452
00:33:39.880 --> 00:33:42.000
toot my horn or anything, but I've done I'm doing

453
00:33:42.039 --> 00:33:46.160
that new Stephen King podcast. Now I'm more centered on

454
00:33:46.200 --> 00:33:48.160
where I've been wanting to go. But it took me.

455
00:33:48.720 --> 00:33:51.000
It took me years to realize exactly where it was

456
00:33:51.119 --> 00:33:54.440
I wanted to go. It feels like but it's much

457
00:33:54.440 --> 00:33:55.720
more satisfying now.

458
00:33:57.160 --> 00:33:59.960
Yeah, And I think that we shouldn't be a friend

459
00:34:00.240 --> 00:34:05.079
to experiment. We also shouldn't fear if we don't know

460
00:34:05.200 --> 00:34:07.279
the answer to where do we want to go or

461
00:34:07.359 --> 00:34:10.039
what do we want? It's okay to not have an

462
00:34:10.079 --> 00:34:14.280
answer and to just slowly figure that out. So, yeah,

463
00:34:14.320 --> 00:34:16.920
there might be people who are listening and they're thinking,

464
00:34:16.960 --> 00:34:20.480
but I don't know what it is that brings me joy.

465
00:34:20.559 --> 00:34:26.400
That's okay, experiment, Yeah, try things out, you know you can.

466
00:34:27.599 --> 00:34:31.119
Sometimes it takes really going back to basics and writing

467
00:34:31.159 --> 00:34:33.840
a list of what are the things you like, what

468
00:34:33.880 --> 00:34:36.639
are the things you dislike, and then looking at well,

469
00:34:36.679 --> 00:34:42.599
what could that thing be for me? I think too

470
00:34:42.920 --> 00:34:46.639
with you know, I use the top ten list as

471
00:34:46.679 --> 00:34:50.800
an easy example. But in the movie industry there are

472
00:34:50.800 --> 00:34:54.480
a lot of actors that they'll make a film for

473
00:34:54.639 --> 00:34:58.280
them and a film for the studio, and they will vary,

474
00:34:58.360 --> 00:35:02.360
and then that will allow them to have financial freedom

475
00:35:02.679 --> 00:35:08.159
and creative authenticity. And I certainly don't think there's anything

476
00:35:08.280 --> 00:35:13.800
wrong with experimentation. You know, I don't think that me

477
00:35:14.000 --> 00:35:20.239
creating ten summer horror reads is going to be what

478
00:35:20.360 --> 00:35:24.559
will light me up and give me ultimate creative fulfillment.

479
00:35:25.559 --> 00:35:27.760
But if somebody said, if you do that, then that

480
00:35:27.880 --> 00:35:31.559
video will get a million views, well, I guess we've

481
00:35:31.599 --> 00:35:36.079
got some summer reading to do, guys. Because yeah, of course,

482
00:35:36.199 --> 00:35:40.440
you know, it's all about risk reward, and so I

483
00:35:40.639 --> 00:35:46.719
experiment with different formats from time to time. You know

484
00:35:46.840 --> 00:35:51.519
it in terms of like Stephen King, like I have

485
00:35:51.719 --> 00:35:56.559
done some episodes where you know, me and Barb and

486
00:35:56.960 --> 00:36:01.920
a guest have analyzed as even king book. We've analyzed

487
00:36:02.559 --> 00:36:06.079
other books as well, not you know, not just by

488
00:36:06.159 --> 00:36:09.719
Stephen King and how to look at like well, how

489
00:36:09.840 --> 00:36:13.199
how do they? How does that do? Because if I

490
00:36:13.360 --> 00:36:21.079
found the analyzing a book like ten x the listeners

491
00:36:21.159 --> 00:36:25.159
or the viewers, then probably I do that every month.

492
00:36:26.000 --> 00:36:30.280
And I think as well, it's important to state that like,

493
00:36:30.400 --> 00:36:37.480
whilst I might enjoy interviewing people more than analyzing a book,

494
00:36:38.159 --> 00:36:43.599
I do still enjoy analyzing the book. So it's not

495
00:36:43.679 --> 00:36:47.639
like a choice between love and hate, but it's more

496
00:36:47.760 --> 00:36:50.599
between love and like. But if I can do things

497
00:36:50.639 --> 00:36:53.639
I love rather than things I like, then I'll choose love.

498
00:36:55.800 --> 00:36:59.440
I think too. With the specific example of analyzing a book,

499
00:37:00.360 --> 00:37:02.800
it's actually the time commitment that's.

500
00:37:02.639 --> 00:37:03.840
The people on there.

501
00:37:03.840 --> 00:37:08.199
It's huge, it's huge. Yeah, And of course there's a

502
00:37:08.519 --> 00:37:12.960
there is a time commitment in me interviewing an author

503
00:37:13.039 --> 00:37:17.719
and me researching. But but when I analyze a book,

504
00:37:19.199 --> 00:37:23.119
I'm kind of scouring over each sentence, whereas if I'm

505
00:37:23.119 --> 00:37:26.679
interviewing an author, it's like, well, well, I've read each sentence,

506
00:37:26.800 --> 00:37:31.440
but I haven't meticulously looked at it. So yeah, you know,

507
00:37:31.559 --> 00:37:34.239
everything I do. I want to make sure that i'm

508
00:37:34.440 --> 00:37:38.920
I'm showing up and I'm I'm giving value to whoever

509
00:37:39.559 --> 00:37:43.599
is listening or watching, because that's their precious time. I

510
00:37:43.639 --> 00:37:47.039
don't want to waste other people's time. I want to

511
00:37:47.039 --> 00:37:48.320
waste my own time either.

512
00:37:48.920 --> 00:37:52.239
Yeah. Yeah, I mean it's got to be pleasing. Right

513
00:37:54.079 --> 00:37:56.039
before we get into Daddy's Boy, I do want to

514
00:37:56.039 --> 00:37:58.719
talk about your Patreon a bit, because I think it's

515
00:37:59.400 --> 00:38:01.840
I'm a member and I really enjoy what you're doing there.

516
00:38:02.719 --> 00:38:05.159
One thing I want to talk about is your walking Talks.

517
00:38:06.000 --> 00:38:08.239
You answered one of my questions on there, and I

518
00:38:08.280 --> 00:38:11.079
truly appreciate that. But do you want to talk about

519
00:38:11.079 --> 00:38:13.039
your Patreon for a second before we move on to

520
00:38:13.440 --> 00:38:14.039
Daddy's Boy?

521
00:38:14.639 --> 00:38:17.400
Yeah? Absolutely. Do you want me to talk about it

522
00:38:17.480 --> 00:38:19.719
in general terms, just.

523
00:38:19.679 --> 00:38:22.119
Like an overview of what people who might want to

524
00:38:22.119 --> 00:38:23.920
go there and check it out, what they'll get.

525
00:38:24.679 --> 00:38:29.400
Yeah, it's Patreon, dot com, forward slash Michael David Wilson,

526
00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:32.480
And as I said before, I kind of set it

527
00:38:32.599 --> 00:38:38.239
up as a place to separate this as horror and

528
00:38:38.400 --> 00:38:42.920
Michael David Wilson, And I mean what I'm doing here

529
00:38:43.039 --> 00:38:48.280
is it's a combination of readings from my work, but

530
00:38:48.719 --> 00:38:55.199
also more writing advice and insights into the craft of writing.

531
00:38:56.199 --> 00:39:01.280
And you mentioned the walk and talk that has become

532
00:39:02.519 --> 00:39:06.880
kind of my most popular piece of content, my most

533
00:39:06.960 --> 00:39:12.000
popular post. And it's kind of as it sounds. Really,

534
00:39:12.400 --> 00:39:15.760
I'm walking around Japan and at the same time, I

535
00:39:15.800 --> 00:39:23.280
am recording audio on creativity and that can be either

536
00:39:24.320 --> 00:39:29.760
insights that I've gleaned or it can be fielding questions

537
00:39:29.840 --> 00:39:34.960
that patreons have submitted. But I always want there to

538
00:39:35.039 --> 00:39:39.880
be a kind of takeaway. I want this to be

539
00:39:40.599 --> 00:39:46.559
helpful to the listeners. So I mean, I'm looking at

540
00:39:46.559 --> 00:39:50.360
it recently, so you can even tell from the titles

541
00:39:50.360 --> 00:39:52.920
of some of these walk and talks what I'm going

542
00:39:53.000 --> 00:39:58.760
to be talking about. So we've got creative procrastination, we've

543
00:39:58.800 --> 00:40:04.039
got reimagined story ideas that aren't working. We've got decide

544
00:40:04.079 --> 00:40:06.639
what you want to do most and create a plan

545
00:40:06.760 --> 00:40:07.760
to make it happen.

546
00:40:08.320 --> 00:40:09.320
I like that one a lot.

547
00:40:10.079 --> 00:40:14.000
Yeah, Yeah, So in fact, I'm I'm trying to even

548
00:40:14.159 --> 00:40:16.760
do it that if you haven't got time to listen

549
00:40:16.840 --> 00:40:19.519
to the walk and talk. You've probably got to take

550
00:40:19.559 --> 00:40:24.159
away just from reading the title and seeing that pop up.

551
00:40:24.840 --> 00:40:30.920
But it's a place that, yeah, it serves many purposes

552
00:40:31.000 --> 00:40:35.159
really because as I said it, it's a separate place

553
00:40:35.239 --> 00:40:38.079
from This as Horror, so it's like this is Michael

554
00:40:38.199 --> 00:40:43.679
David Wilson. But it also enables me to connect with

555
00:40:43.840 --> 00:40:47.840
people who really like my work as readers, because I

556
00:40:47.960 --> 00:40:50.280
know too that whilst there is a lot of crossover

557
00:40:50.400 --> 00:40:55.880
between This is Horror and Michael David Wilson readers, it's

558
00:40:55.920 --> 00:41:00.400
not exclusive. There will be people who enjoy read my

559
00:41:00.519 --> 00:41:05.320
work who aren't really into traditional horror fiction. Equally, there

560
00:41:05.320 --> 00:41:07.760
are going to be people who really like the podcast,

561
00:41:07.880 --> 00:41:11.719
but the brand of horror I'm doing isn't for them.

562
00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:15.760
I mean, it's it's quite niche. I think it is

563
00:41:15.800 --> 00:41:20.119
a kind of love it or Hate it style. And

564
00:41:20.159 --> 00:41:25.639
then also with This as Horror, I've tried to also

565
00:41:26.159 --> 00:41:28.880
be the kind of guy that can give you writing advice,

566
00:41:28.960 --> 00:41:32.719
that can motivate you, that can help you through your

567
00:41:32.800 --> 00:41:38.039
creative struggles, and that's becoming a big part of Michael

568
00:41:38.159 --> 00:41:43.559
David Wilson Patreon as well. So then I mean there's

569
00:41:43.719 --> 00:41:47.760
essentially two types of people who are going to get

570
00:41:47.800 --> 00:41:49.840
a lot out of it. There are those who are

571
00:41:49.880 --> 00:41:54.199
struggling with their writing and they want that extra boost.

572
00:41:54.760 --> 00:41:57.679
And there are going to be those people who are

573
00:41:57.679 --> 00:42:01.119
big fans of my fiction and they want to get

574
00:42:01.199 --> 00:42:07.239
some bonuses like exclusive content, like early content, and also

575
00:42:07.360 --> 00:42:09.800
to get to see some of those readings and listen

576
00:42:09.880 --> 00:42:13.920
to the audio versions. So at the moment, I've been

577
00:42:13.960 --> 00:42:18.840
recording a chapter from House of Bad Memories so people

578
00:42:18.880 --> 00:42:23.079
can see me reading it. I've also a few days

579
00:42:23.079 --> 00:42:26.760
ago I put chapter one of Daddy's Boy up there.

580
00:42:27.320 --> 00:42:30.159
I realized at the time of recording that's going to

581
00:42:30.199 --> 00:42:34.519
be about a few weeks ago, so anyway, it doesn't

582
00:42:34.599 --> 00:42:37.760
go away, so it is there. So if you're listening

583
00:42:37.840 --> 00:42:40.199
and you're not sure if you want to buy Daddy's Boy,

584
00:42:40.239 --> 00:42:44.280
if you go to patreon dot com forward slash Michael

585
00:42:44.400 --> 00:42:49.920
David Wilson, you can read chapter one. You'll also, by

586
00:42:49.960 --> 00:42:52.760
the time this is going live, be able to listen

587
00:42:52.880 --> 00:42:55.960
to the audiobook of chapter one, because I'm going to

588
00:42:56.000 --> 00:43:00.800
be putting that live in a matter of days, so

589
00:43:01.119 --> 00:43:04.840
that part two is not behind the paywall. So it's

590
00:43:04.920 --> 00:43:08.519
important to say that watch. The bulk of the content

591
00:43:09.840 --> 00:43:15.440
is behind a rather small paywall. There's a free tier

592
00:43:15.559 --> 00:43:19.760
as well, so you can kind of preview what I'm doing,

593
00:43:20.719 --> 00:43:24.519
and I think too to just kind of talk a

594
00:43:24.559 --> 00:43:27.559
little bit more on the Walk and Talk. If you

595
00:43:27.760 --> 00:43:30.960
enjoy this is Horror podcast, and you enjoy the bits

596
00:43:31.039 --> 00:43:36.239
in which I'm giving writing or creative advice, then you're

597
00:43:36.280 --> 00:43:39.000
probably going to really like the Walk and Talk because

598
00:43:39.039 --> 00:43:43.519
it's essentially a solo podcast where I am just talking

599
00:43:43.599 --> 00:43:47.119
about a specific issue pertaining to writing.

600
00:43:47.960 --> 00:43:53.360
Yeah. Well, it's very informative and I've enjoyed my time there,

601
00:43:54.039 --> 00:43:57.280
and so how about we move on to Daddy's Boy

602
00:43:57.280 --> 00:43:58.119
here the main event.

603
00:43:59.199 --> 00:44:01.519
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

604
00:44:03.880 --> 00:44:07.320
You mentioned that you've you've read the chapter one from

605
00:44:07.400 --> 00:44:09.360
Daddy's Boy on your Patreon and you're going to be

606
00:44:09.440 --> 00:44:14.199
dropping the uh uh, the actual audio book the first

607
00:44:14.280 --> 00:44:17.559
chapter soon, so there is going to be an audiobook.

608
00:44:17.559 --> 00:44:18.679
That's that's pretty exciting.

609
00:44:19.800 --> 00:44:25.199
Yeah. The audio book is narrated by Josh Curran, and

610
00:44:25.400 --> 00:44:30.239
Josh Curran is perhaps best known for his work on

611
00:44:30.559 --> 00:44:35.320
The Hawk and Cleaver of the Other Stories podcast. He's

612
00:44:36.079 --> 00:44:38.840
you know for Me for My Money, one of the

613
00:44:38.880 --> 00:44:45.599
best narrators for that podcast. And he's just got such

614
00:44:45.639 --> 00:44:51.480
a kind of great but understated British voice that lends

615
00:44:51.599 --> 00:44:57.000
itself so nicely. It's gonna work, yeah to Daddy's Boy.

616
00:44:57.960 --> 00:45:03.920
But he's also really brought to life some of these

617
00:45:04.039 --> 00:45:07.920
characters with great accents. It's not it's not just a

618
00:45:08.039 --> 00:45:12.960
straight reading where he's varying his tone a little bit. No,

619
00:45:13.119 --> 00:45:17.639
he's he's doing different accents and voices for different characters.

620
00:45:18.679 --> 00:45:22.760
And I mean, actually be no surprise, because you know

621
00:45:22.880 --> 00:45:26.440
he he is a voice actor. He is trained as

622
00:45:27.559 --> 00:45:32.480
an actor in theater, so this is why he's good

623
00:45:32.519 --> 00:45:37.480
at And yeah, I'm I've listened to it so many

624
00:45:37.599 --> 00:45:42.920
times because I'm very meticulous and pedantic when going through well,

625
00:45:43.000 --> 00:45:46.800
when going through anything. So it was it was that

626
00:45:46.920 --> 00:45:52.800
with the audio as well. It was a really good partnership.

627
00:45:52.880 --> 00:45:56.519
I hope that we will work together in the future

628
00:45:56.639 --> 00:46:01.760
on something. But my goodness, I'm excited to share that

629
00:46:01.840 --> 00:46:02.400
with the world.

630
00:46:02.880 --> 00:46:05.679
I want to hear it. I want to listen to

631
00:46:05.719 --> 00:46:08.920
it maybe when it comes out, because I just want

632
00:46:08.960 --> 00:46:11.880
to hear those voices come to life. Because this is

633
00:46:11.920 --> 00:46:17.559
such a dialogue driven book. A lot of people compare

634
00:46:17.599 --> 00:46:23.599
you to Quentin Tarantino, and I think the comparisons are

635
00:46:23.960 --> 00:46:28.599
very fair. Without being Tarantino, it's it's it's like being

636
00:46:29.599 --> 00:46:31.760
it's like Tarantino in the sense that they are so

637
00:46:31.960 --> 00:46:40.039
strong dialogue structure within your work, and this this book

638
00:46:40.119 --> 00:46:42.400
is definitely like it's you're at your peak here. It

639
00:46:42.440 --> 00:46:45.239
feels like like you could get better, but like it

640
00:46:45.280 --> 00:46:48.519
feels like it's at your peak, because man, this really works.

641
00:46:49.320 --> 00:46:54.199
Yeah, I mean, anytime people compare me to Quentin Tarantino,

642
00:46:53.960 --> 00:47:01.800
for me, that's the ultimate compliment. I absolutely love Tarantino movies,

643
00:47:02.800 --> 00:47:07.239
and yeah, he's a master of craft. He's a master

644
00:47:07.559 --> 00:47:12.800
of dialogue. He's a master of what on the surface

645
00:47:13.000 --> 00:47:19.400
might appear innocuous or tangental dialogue, but then you see

646
00:47:19.480 --> 00:47:23.440
how this is all completely relevant and related to story,

647
00:47:23.559 --> 00:47:28.079
and it all weaves together. And that's something that I

648
00:47:28.280 --> 00:47:34.280
try to do too. So, like, I don't know, like,

649
00:47:34.519 --> 00:47:40.719
was Quentin Tarantino ever a deliberate influence. I'm not sure,

650
00:47:40.800 --> 00:47:45.199
but but I've always loved his films, And yeah, if

651
00:47:45.199 --> 00:47:49.519
I can do something on the page that evokes Tarantino

652
00:47:49.639 --> 00:47:55.559
for a number of readers, my goodness, then that's job done.

653
00:47:55.719 --> 00:48:00.519
That's so so good to hear. And I mean something

654
00:48:00.599 --> 00:48:04.519
that I'm hearing particularly now from people who have read

655
00:48:04.559 --> 00:48:07.880
House of Bad Memories and dad Is Boy, because I

656
00:48:08.119 --> 00:48:11.039
very much see the girl in the video and they're

657
00:48:11.119 --> 00:48:15.199
watching as a kind of pairing and almost like a

658
00:48:15.199 --> 00:48:19.920
phase of MDW fiction, and then House of Bad Memories

659
00:48:20.000 --> 00:48:23.199
and Daddy's Boy also feel like a pairing. It's just

660
00:48:23.280 --> 00:48:27.440
as I said before, Daddy's Boy is dialing up the comedy.

661
00:48:27.920 --> 00:48:31.440
House of Bad Memories is dialing up the violence. But

662
00:48:31.519 --> 00:48:34.719
that's not to say the House of Bad Memories does

663
00:48:34.760 --> 00:48:37.239
not have comedy, and it's certainly not to say that

664
00:48:37.360 --> 00:48:42.480
Dad's Boy does not have violence. And you know, something

665
00:48:42.599 --> 00:48:46.400
that came up recently when I was talking to a

666
00:48:46.440 --> 00:48:51.079
friend is how you know, my villains are kind of

667
00:48:52.159 --> 00:48:54.960
they kind of have something a little bit larger than

668
00:48:55.079 --> 00:49:01.880
life about them, and they're very memorable and cartoonish. Cartoonish

669
00:49:02.000 --> 00:49:06.199
might be going too far, but there's something, there's something

670
00:49:06.360 --> 00:49:11.320
animated about them. And absolutely, you know, for for different

671
00:49:11.400 --> 00:49:14.800
people that that might be disparaging. For me, it's again

672
00:49:14.880 --> 00:49:18.559
it's a compliment. I want them to be memorable, and yeah,

673
00:49:18.719 --> 00:49:20.800
you know, if I if I think of some of them,

674
00:49:20.880 --> 00:49:25.840
like like Westerer's sister and she's got a samurai sword.

675
00:49:26.440 --> 00:49:29.719
What am I gonna say? No, that don't be ridiculous.

676
00:49:29.840 --> 00:49:35.199
That's not cartoonish. That's just normal day life if you're

677
00:49:35.239 --> 00:49:39.039
not walked around Kidder minister, everyone's got a samurai sword.

678
00:49:39.639 --> 00:49:43.880
But you know, we're in fiction. We're I'm playing, I'm

679
00:49:43.920 --> 00:49:48.119
having fun, I'm finding joy. Why wouldn't I give her

680
00:49:48.199 --> 00:49:49.400
a samurai sword?

681
00:49:49.760 --> 00:49:52.400
Exactly? I mean it really adds to the story. And

682
00:49:52.519 --> 00:49:55.559
you're like, you're talking about your villains being very animated,

683
00:49:56.000 --> 00:49:58.119
and they are. It's part of what makes the book

684
00:49:58.159 --> 00:50:01.480
so good. And I take you on threads. I don't

685
00:50:01.519 --> 00:50:04.400
know if you remember with that video of that guy.

686
00:50:04.519 --> 00:50:07.599
He wasn't rapping. It was like singing, I know, like

687
00:50:07.639 --> 00:50:10.000
a love song or something, right, but he's like dancing

688
00:50:10.039 --> 00:50:13.400
with all the bouncing cars. I'm gonna tell I'm gonna

689
00:50:13.920 --> 00:50:16.960
link that video to this, to this video and to

690
00:50:17.039 --> 00:50:18.920
the podcast because people have to see it. And that

691
00:50:19.559 --> 00:50:20.960
totally has Colin vibes.

692
00:50:24.039 --> 00:50:30.239
Yeah, I mean Colin For people who don't know, which

693
00:50:30.400 --> 00:50:33.480
presumably would be most people because the book is only

694
00:50:33.880 --> 00:50:34.800
coming out.

695
00:50:34.599 --> 00:50:37.320
Today, you'll know soon if you read it yet.

696
00:50:37.519 --> 00:50:42.679
Oh yeah, So that there's a gang of villains and

697
00:50:43.719 --> 00:50:47.719
one of them, one of the younger members. He's the

698
00:50:47.760 --> 00:50:52.079
son of one of the main villains. He's called Colin,

699
00:50:52.960 --> 00:50:58.480
and he writes writes a lot of raps, which he

700
00:50:58.559 --> 00:51:04.840
then puts up on is TikTok channel, and anytime anything

701
00:51:05.159 --> 00:51:09.360
criminal is happening, then he feels inspired to create a

702
00:51:09.440 --> 00:51:14.280
TikTok rap about it. And he's gone kind of semi

703
00:51:14.440 --> 00:51:20.320
viral for this. But you know, I mean, he's about

704
00:51:20.559 --> 00:51:24.360
as threatening as a wet bag of lettuce, but he's

705
00:51:24.519 --> 00:51:30.480
still pretty pretty endearing, I think in many ways, Like

706
00:51:31.320 --> 00:51:35.880
it's just this bizarre villain, but there are some villains

707
00:51:35.880 --> 00:51:39.880
that seem innocuus and then they might surprise you. Yeah,

708
00:51:39.880 --> 00:51:43.320
you never know who is and who isn't trained in judo.

709
00:51:44.519 --> 00:51:48.320
Yeah, or have a samurai sword. Yeah. And also you know,

710
00:51:48.559 --> 00:51:51.639
it's not just your villains though, that your character work

711
00:51:51.760 --> 00:51:56.920
for Well, Norman, you don't know exactly if he's a

712
00:51:57.000 --> 00:52:01.079
villain or not throughout the entire thing, but he's a

713
00:52:01.239 --> 00:52:04.159
fascinating He's one of the most fascinating characters I have

714
00:52:04.239 --> 00:52:08.679
ever read. He's he's out there man, like I can

715
00:52:08.719 --> 00:52:13.320
picture this guy being real and yet oh my god, Like, okay,

716
00:52:14.199 --> 00:52:18.360
Norman is just crazy good, Like he kept the book

717
00:52:18.800 --> 00:52:22.960
like burning. Throughout the whole thing, you kept wondering, what

718
00:52:23.000 --> 00:52:25.039
the hell is Norman gonna do next? Or when is

719
00:52:25.039 --> 00:52:29.519
he going to bring up Naked Attraction next. I love

720
00:52:29.639 --> 00:52:32.960
Norman and Wentworth is great too, but Norman really, uh,

721
00:52:33.440 --> 00:52:34.599
he stole the show, I think.

722
00:52:35.639 --> 00:52:39.199
Yeah, yeah, I think for people who read House of

723
00:52:39.320 --> 00:52:44.000
Bad Memories, Norman is kind of the equivalent to Jade

724
00:52:44.360 --> 00:52:49.599
in Yeah, yeah, He's the one who people are going

725
00:52:49.639 --> 00:52:55.559
to remember. He's kind of the second protagonist in the book.

726
00:52:55.679 --> 00:53:01.159
Really and yeah, yeah, I mean you say you don't

727
00:53:01.199 --> 00:53:05.480
know if he's a villain. He's Norman. He's a human,

728
00:53:05.679 --> 00:53:10.000
he is painted in a bizarre palette of colors. He's

729
00:53:10.559 --> 00:53:12.920
he's not a hero. He's not a villain.

730
00:53:14.119 --> 00:53:18.440
No, But like, especially the first half, you're you're really unsure, right,

731
00:53:18.719 --> 00:53:21.719
But then you kind of get what he's what, he's

732
00:53:21.760 --> 00:53:24.400
what he wants in the area, the reason why he's

733
00:53:24.440 --> 00:53:27.639
doing what he's doing. But you know, in the he's

734
00:53:27.639 --> 00:53:29.800
a good guy, but in the end he's also kind

735
00:53:29.800 --> 00:53:33.920
of a bad guy, right, right, right, You don't know,

736
00:53:33.960 --> 00:53:35.480
if you can trust him through it.

737
00:53:36.440 --> 00:53:40.039
He's probably, you know what, on the scale of good

738
00:53:40.079 --> 00:53:44.159
to bad, he's probably a kind of a chaotic good.

739
00:53:44.400 --> 00:53:48.199
Why he's doing these like criminal and these weird things,

740
00:53:48.280 --> 00:53:53.320
but in his own way, in his own logic, it

741
00:53:53.519 --> 00:53:59.239
makes sense. He's never doing things to deliberately harmer for people.

742
00:54:01.000 --> 00:54:07.239
He's very spontaneous, much as Jade was, and sometimes that

743
00:54:07.440 --> 00:54:13.519
spontaneity can be his weakness. I mean, at one point

744
00:54:13.559 --> 00:54:18.639
he literally says yeah, because Wentworth is like, what what

745
00:54:18.679 --> 00:54:21.840
are you doing? You you know, you weren't thinking, And

746
00:54:21.920 --> 00:54:26.119
he's like, oh, that's that's my one weakness. Boy, I

747
00:54:26.159 --> 00:54:31.639
don't think, so I just do.

748
00:54:32.599 --> 00:54:32.840
Yeah.

749
00:54:32.880 --> 00:54:33.599
That's like.

750
00:54:35.199 --> 00:54:35.800
There's more.

751
00:54:36.199 --> 00:54:40.719
He has more self awareness than perhaps people realize. But

752
00:54:40.840 --> 00:54:45.920
it's like he has a self awareness in hindsight. So

753
00:54:46.000 --> 00:54:51.039
it's always too bloody late. But you know what, at

754
00:54:51.079 --> 00:54:56.880
the core of this book, I mean, this book, I think,

755
00:54:57.039 --> 00:55:00.360
and some people have said too, is hilarious, and there

756
00:55:00.360 --> 00:55:02.960
are a lot of jokes, and there are certainly a

757
00:55:03.000 --> 00:55:06.320
lot of dick jokes, which I have not been shy

758
00:55:06.440 --> 00:55:12.719
about saying that. But also at its core, it's about families.

759
00:55:12.800 --> 00:55:18.800
It's about fractured relationships. It's about parental relationships, and it's

760
00:55:18.960 --> 00:55:24.239
about pushing those limits what you would and wouldn't do

761
00:55:25.440 --> 00:55:29.199
for loved ones, what is a step too far? And

762
00:55:29.280 --> 00:55:33.199
that is kind of the seriousness that isn't the core

763
00:55:33.320 --> 00:55:38.199
of this book. And I think with the best kind

764
00:55:38.239 --> 00:55:45.039
of dark comedy and bizarro and absurdism, and I think

765
00:55:45.079 --> 00:55:47.639
we see this a lot in Dangerous Later's work, who

766
00:55:47.639 --> 00:55:53.519
I mentioned before. There are two readings. You can just

767
00:55:53.760 --> 00:55:56.199
read it and play it and enjoy it for the

768
00:55:56.320 --> 00:55:59.800
laughs and for the humor and in my specific case,

769
00:55:59.840 --> 00:56:07.119
for very obscure British nineties references. But there's also a

770
00:56:07.199 --> 00:56:11.280
deeper message if you want, you know, it's there, and

771
00:56:11.320 --> 00:56:16.639
there's a deeper commentary on on relationships and on good

772
00:56:16.719 --> 00:56:20.360
and evil and and so that's why it's so difficult

773
00:56:20.960 --> 00:56:24.719
for you to say, or for anyone to say, is

774
00:56:24.719 --> 00:56:29.000
is Norman a good person? It's like, I don't fucking

775
00:56:29.119 --> 00:56:35.079
know is anyone a good person? Really? Yeah? There are

776
00:56:35.159 --> 00:56:38.320
things that he does that definitely aren't good. There are

777
00:56:38.360 --> 00:56:41.679
things that he does that are well intentioned. There are

778
00:56:41.760 --> 00:56:45.199
things that he does that are absolutely baffling, and you're like,

779
00:56:45.960 --> 00:56:49.039
why did you do that? Oh? I don't know. Boy

780
00:56:49.800 --> 00:56:52.679
must have had a few too many tennis, don't mean,

781
00:56:53.599 --> 00:56:56.480
so you never know if Norman.

782
00:56:57.440 --> 00:57:00.159
That That was actually one of my questions. So it's

783
00:57:00.159 --> 00:57:03.880
interesting because there are some serious underlying things like Wentworth,

784
00:57:03.920 --> 00:57:06.719
he's going through a really rough patch. He's tried to

785
00:57:06.760 --> 00:57:08.880
kill himself a few times, and the story is from

786
00:57:08.880 --> 00:57:15.159
his perspective, and there's that serious tone throughout. It's just

787
00:57:15.199 --> 00:57:18.480
the way the characters act that make it go kind

788
00:57:18.480 --> 00:57:22.280
of bonkers. And the question was like, how are you

789
00:57:22.360 --> 00:57:30.000
able to put those two elements together something that's very serious,

790
00:57:30.039 --> 00:57:36.880
like these serious themes of like masculinity, toxic masculinity and whatnot,

791
00:57:38.280 --> 00:57:42.679
and marry that to something that just makes you question,

792
00:57:42.760 --> 00:57:45.239
you know, like what the fuck am I reading and

793
00:57:46.119 --> 00:57:47.039
laugh all the time?

794
00:57:49.119 --> 00:57:51.800
I think it might have a lot to do with

795
00:57:51.880 --> 00:57:54.320
the way that I view the world and the way

796
00:57:54.400 --> 00:58:00.079
that I process and deal with difficult times in my

797
00:58:00.119 --> 00:58:04.360
own life. We would have touched on this a little

798
00:58:04.360 --> 00:58:09.519
bit with House of Bad Memories because it was relevant then,

799
00:58:09.760 --> 00:58:14.280
but it was also relevant when writing Daddy's Boys. So

800
00:58:15.079 --> 00:58:21.199
I mean somewhere between finishing House of Bad Memories and

801
00:58:21.320 --> 00:58:25.440
during the composition of Daddy's Boy, I was going through

802
00:58:25.480 --> 00:58:28.920
one of the most difficult, not one of the most

803
00:58:29.000 --> 00:58:34.239
difficult time of my life with a custody battle and

804
00:58:34.360 --> 00:58:38.920
a divorce, and there were just some very difficult and

805
00:58:39.000 --> 00:58:47.159
painful times. But whenever anything difficult is happening, and then,

806
00:58:47.480 --> 00:58:50.239
like you know, if I have a conversation with a

807
00:58:50.280 --> 00:58:54.920
friend and I tell them about it, I know that

808
00:58:56.039 --> 00:58:59.920
these are heavy things to hear and there's basically no

809
00:59:00.360 --> 00:59:04.639
humor and there's no there's no joy in them, and

810
00:59:04.679 --> 00:59:07.559
then that makes it a little bit difficult for the

811
00:59:07.679 --> 00:59:12.599
person who is receiving that information who I'm talking to.

812
00:59:14.400 --> 00:59:17.920
And I have a thing where I have to make

813
00:59:18.000 --> 00:59:21.039
a joke or I have to make light of something,

814
00:59:21.400 --> 00:59:24.639
or I have to I just have to make a

815
00:59:24.760 --> 00:59:30.519
kind of ironic statement, or I'll deliberately say something that

816
00:59:30.760 --> 00:59:33.599
is not true and is overinflated and over the top,

817
00:59:33.880 --> 00:59:37.400
just to break that tension and just to break how

818
00:59:37.639 --> 00:59:43.880
fucking just sad and and and kind of desolate it

819
00:59:44.039 --> 00:59:49.360
all is that. So I've always dealt with tragedy through

820
00:59:49.519 --> 00:59:54.519
humor and through joking. And you know, there's a cliche

821
00:59:54.760 --> 00:59:59.840
about how if you don't laugh, you will cry, And

822
01:00:00.039 --> 01:00:02.599
I probably just in my life and in my vision,

823
01:00:02.760 --> 01:00:06.440
take that to the limit. It's like, well, what do

824
01:00:06.480 --> 01:00:09.159
you mean if you don't laugh? Most people would just

825
01:00:09.440 --> 01:00:12.639
cry at that you fucking run and why are you laughing?

826
01:00:13.559 --> 01:00:20.000
But well, I honestly I think that they're they're similar, right, yeah, laughing, Yeah.

827
01:00:19.719 --> 01:00:24.440
And you know, I I've mentioned this once before, but

828
01:00:26.159 --> 01:00:30.880
I also kind of tangentally related to that. I have

829
01:00:30.960 --> 01:00:37.119
a thing where if there's a really serious situation where

830
01:00:37.159 --> 01:00:42.159
you're not meant to laugh, that's part of my messed

831
01:00:42.239 --> 01:00:46.559
up brain. They're just during that moment apropos of nothing

832
01:00:46.840 --> 01:00:49.679
is like, it would be pretty funny if you laugh

833
01:00:49.800 --> 01:00:54.000
right now. It's like we're at fucking grandma's funeral, go on,

834
01:00:54.920 --> 01:00:59.239
have a little have a little juckle, And just the

835
01:00:59.360 --> 01:01:03.880
inner proprioateness of this intrusive thought then makes me want

836
01:01:03.920 --> 01:01:07.679
to laugh, and it's like, yeah, that would be pretty funny.

837
01:01:08.679 --> 01:01:13.239
And I think as well, like actually that you know,

838
01:01:13.360 --> 01:01:18.519
I said that I don't traditionally fit into horror. I

839
01:01:18.559 --> 01:01:24.719
think there's this constant battle that I have where I

840
01:01:25.280 --> 01:01:29.880
cannot write a straight horror piece without cracking a joke,

841
01:01:30.679 --> 01:01:34.840
and I cannot write just a comedy without getting a

842
01:01:34.880 --> 01:01:38.480
little bit fucked up and doing something really, really dark.

843
01:01:39.079 --> 01:01:41.840
So it's almost makes it impossible for me to write

844
01:01:41.840 --> 01:01:46.800
commercial comedy or commercial horror because I'll just throw this

845
01:01:46.920 --> 01:01:49.880
thing in that is almost the antithesis of what I'm

846
01:01:49.920 --> 01:01:53.920
trying to create. It's like, well, it's like the laughing

847
01:01:54.039 --> 01:01:57.800
at the funeral. It's like my brain wants to self sabotage,

848
01:01:58.599 --> 01:02:04.840
and why probably for my immature personal amusement. It's like

849
01:02:04.920 --> 01:02:11.079
if I'm entertaining, I think entertaining myself is like a

850
01:02:11.159 --> 01:02:15.000
big part of the process because when I'm working on

851
01:02:15.079 --> 01:02:18.440
a story, I mean probably if I write a novel quickly,

852
01:02:19.679 --> 01:02:22.840
it's probably still six months. Like I'd say six to

853
01:02:22.920 --> 01:02:28.440
twelve months is the average time for me to kind

854
01:02:28.440 --> 01:02:31.320
of get a novel from idea to let's submit it

855
01:02:31.320 --> 01:02:35.480
to the publisher. Well, that's a big investment of time,

856
01:02:36.199 --> 01:02:39.239
so I'd better be doing things to have joy and

857
01:02:39.320 --> 01:02:44.599
to entertain myself. But you know, I'm working on this

858
01:02:44.679 --> 01:02:49.199
new novel at the moment, and if you look at

859
01:02:49.320 --> 01:02:55.000
the plan, it looks like a fairly serious horror novel

860
01:02:55.039 --> 01:02:58.639
with some messed up things that are happening. But then

861
01:02:58.679 --> 01:03:02.760
as I'm writing it is like, can you just imagine

862
01:03:02.920 --> 01:03:07.960
if this character said this, or if this accident happened,

863
01:03:08.039 --> 01:03:11.199
and that would that would be pretty funny, wouldn't it?

864
01:03:11.239 --> 01:03:15.840
And what would what would they do? Then? So I

865
01:03:16.000 --> 01:03:19.280
kind of think what I'm beginning to write a lot

866
01:03:19.360 --> 01:03:26.039
of is comedies of error or comedies of incompetence. And

867
01:03:27.159 --> 01:03:31.800
I love writing about criminals, but I like writing about

868
01:03:31.840 --> 01:03:37.719
incompetent criminals. I like writing about crime gone wrong. It'll

869
01:03:37.719 --> 01:03:40.519
probably be boring for me to write about hearing these

870
01:03:40.599 --> 01:03:45.599
mastermind criminals and they rob the bank with this super

871
01:03:45.679 --> 01:03:49.559
technology and they just get away with it. I want

872
01:03:49.559 --> 01:03:56.000
to see that. Who didn't notice the CCTV camera? How

873
01:03:56.000 --> 01:03:57.559
are we're going to get out of that one?

874
01:03:58.039 --> 01:04:00.880
Honestly? That's what I love about your fit is because

875
01:04:00.880 --> 01:04:04.920
you can watch like Oceans twelve all you want and

876
01:04:05.039 --> 01:04:09.960
see the plan executed perfectly and everyone did their role perfectly,

877
01:04:10.280 --> 01:04:13.199
even despite the roadblocks that came along the way. But

878
01:04:13.679 --> 01:04:16.840
that's not real life, Daddy's Boys. Real life, you get

879
01:04:16.840 --> 01:04:20.719
these quirky characters. Everyone's a quirky, like weird and quirky

880
01:04:20.760 --> 01:04:24.719
in some way. Right. We all have our things, and

881
01:04:24.800 --> 01:04:29.119
we all, you know, mess up extraordinarily at times, especially

882
01:04:29.119 --> 01:04:33.119
when it's most important that we don't. And so what

883
01:04:33.159 --> 01:04:35.679
I'm getting at is your characters are more realistic there

884
01:04:36.639 --> 01:04:38.920
and that's I think where the joy comes in and

885
01:04:38.920 --> 01:04:46.280
reading them because there are comedy of errors, like you said, yeah,

886
01:04:46.320 --> 01:04:49.119
and it's just fun to watch because you can relate

887
01:04:49.159 --> 01:04:49.480
to it.

888
01:04:50.679 --> 01:04:55.639
Yeah. Yeah, And I think you know it's about because

889
01:04:55.719 --> 01:04:59.480
you asked, how can I write these really serious things?

890
01:04:59.519 --> 01:05:03.079
But so have the spread of comedy throughout. And I

891
01:05:03.119 --> 01:05:08.400
think it's always about kind of when I'm readdrafting, I'm

892
01:05:08.440 --> 01:05:12.400
really looking closely at every word choice, at every sentence

893
01:05:12.440 --> 01:05:15.400
and just making sure do I have the right balance

894
01:05:16.480 --> 01:05:21.719
for that scene? You know. Usually well, with something like

895
01:05:21.800 --> 01:05:25.679
that is boy, it would be more like removing jokes

896
01:05:25.719 --> 01:05:28.840
than adding a new one. There was no need, like

897
01:05:28.920 --> 01:05:32.519
after the first draft to add even more. But I

898
01:05:32.559 --> 01:05:34.960
think as well, just having an awareness as to what

899
01:05:36.199 --> 01:05:38.440
is the book that I'm writing or what is the

900
01:05:38.480 --> 01:05:44.000
tone that I'm going for, I think where possible, do

901
01:05:44.199 --> 01:05:47.400
not think about that when you're first drafting a book,

902
01:05:47.440 --> 01:05:52.199
because then that could stifle your creativity. Just write it.

903
01:05:52.480 --> 01:05:55.639
Just write what is true to you and what you

904
01:05:55.719 --> 01:05:59.440
are feeling at that moment. There's a little bit similar

905
01:05:59.480 --> 01:06:01.840
in fact what I said when I was answering your

906
01:06:01.920 --> 01:06:06.360
question for the Walk and Talk, because I mean, you know,

907
01:06:06.480 --> 01:06:10.320
when I was younger as well, I worried what if, like,

908
01:06:11.199 --> 01:06:14.519
you know, my family or some people see this or

909
01:06:14.519 --> 01:06:18.400
they notice, ah, you kind of based that off me.

910
01:06:18.559 --> 01:06:22.400
And it's like, in the first draft especially, do not

911
01:06:22.639 --> 01:06:27.639
worry about that at all. And you know, when you're redrafting,

912
01:06:27.760 --> 01:06:31.440
you you know, it's like dialing up or dialing down

913
01:06:31.559 --> 01:06:36.079
and just trying to get that tone. I knew that

914
01:06:36.239 --> 01:06:41.079
in having so many jokes that this would be skewering

915
01:06:41.280 --> 01:06:46.280
far more towards comedy. I could have removed them, but

916
01:06:46.360 --> 01:06:50.320
I think it would have made us safer, more boring story.

917
01:06:50.760 --> 01:06:55.760
And I think in finding joy and in entertaining myself,

918
01:06:56.840 --> 01:07:00.400
that's a really good way of approaching Beau, because I

919
01:07:00.440 --> 01:07:04.960
really do think if I've entertained myself, then there's going

920
01:07:05.000 --> 01:07:08.760
to be other people who are entertained as well. But

921
01:07:08.880 --> 01:07:12.199
if I've like made it boring because I don't know,

922
01:07:12.280 --> 01:07:15.199
a publisher said we need to pad this out a bit.

923
01:07:15.440 --> 01:07:20.840
If I don't believe in it, other people aren't either.

924
01:07:21.639 --> 01:07:24.800
You know, there's a novella that I've got that is

925
01:07:24.840 --> 01:07:30.400
with a publisher at the moment, and the word count

926
01:07:31.400 --> 01:07:36.920
is over thirty nine thousand words but just under forty thousand.

927
01:07:37.639 --> 01:07:40.880
If it's over forty thousand, then it will be a novel,

928
01:07:41.360 --> 01:07:46.199
but as it's under, it is technically a novella. And

929
01:07:46.599 --> 01:07:50.159
I looked at that story and I thought, is there

930
01:07:50.400 --> 01:07:53.760
just another scene or just something else that I can

931
01:07:53.840 --> 01:07:59.039
do that will just make this another novel? But for

932
01:07:59.159 --> 01:08:01.599
me in the way it is, it's like, no, this

933
01:08:01.840 --> 01:08:05.639
is so tight, this is so the vision that I want.

934
01:08:05.719 --> 01:08:09.400
And so this is why I really do preach the

935
01:08:09.440 --> 01:08:14.920
idea of, you know, writing the story to the length

936
01:08:15.000 --> 01:08:18.000
that the story needs to be, that the art needs

937
01:08:18.039 --> 01:08:21.520
it to be. And hopefully, given I've just given you

938
01:08:21.560 --> 01:08:25.560
an example that's let's say thirty nine and six hundred words,

939
01:08:25.600 --> 01:08:28.880
it's like, wow, I'm really backing it up. I wouldn't

940
01:08:28.920 --> 01:08:32.319
add another four hundred and one words to make it

941
01:08:32.359 --> 01:08:36.640
a novel. But yeah, but no, like, what what what

942
01:08:36.760 --> 01:08:39.439
am I going to do? Like, because a lot of

943
01:08:39.479 --> 01:08:42.520
my novels are quite sweary, you had like another four

944
01:08:42.600 --> 01:08:46.159
hundred fuckings in? I mean I probably could, but I'm

945
01:08:46.199 --> 01:08:51.159
not going to do that. It's like, as ridiculous as

946
01:08:51.199 --> 01:08:54.279
it might be for somebody who swears so much in

947
01:08:54.319 --> 01:09:00.079
their fiction. Each swear word is deliberately there because it

948
01:09:00.159 --> 01:09:02.560
needs to be there. And even when I'm looking at

949
01:09:02.600 --> 01:09:10.199
these sentences on a meticulous level, sometimes I'm omitting some profanities.

950
01:09:10.319 --> 01:09:12.920
Sometimes I'm adding it in. What is the punch, What

951
01:09:13.079 --> 01:09:17.600
is the spice? What is the you know, profanity seasoning

952
01:09:17.880 --> 01:09:23.000
that is required for that for that sentence to taste good.

953
01:09:25.039 --> 01:09:28.880
Of course, if it comes back from the publisher and

954
01:09:28.920 --> 01:09:32.680
they want to publish it, and they have a kind

955
01:09:32.680 --> 01:09:35.920
of a very specific note about a scene that they

956
01:09:35.960 --> 01:09:40.840
want to see put in there, then okay, we're going

957
01:09:40.880 --> 01:09:44.000
to turn it into a novel or so you know.

958
01:09:44.119 --> 01:09:48.560
I said there are two motivators. Primary is joy, Secondary

959
01:09:48.720 --> 01:09:52.159
is money. If they write the check big enough, I

960
01:09:52.159 --> 01:09:54.159
think we can find four hundred lads.

961
01:09:59.520 --> 01:10:10.079
Yeah, it's hard to peg your stories down too genre wise,

962
01:10:10.399 --> 01:10:16.600
Like there's a lot of crime, sprinkle of horror. I

963
01:10:16.640 --> 01:10:19.560
was wondering where I think we did talk about this

964
01:10:19.600 --> 01:10:22.520
the last time I had you on the show. I

965
01:10:22.560 --> 01:10:25.279
wanted to know about genre and what you feel you

966
01:10:25.399 --> 01:10:28.560
right in. But Daddy's Boy is even more interesting because

967
01:10:28.880 --> 01:10:30.439
there is a little bit of horror at the end.

968
01:10:30.479 --> 01:10:34.520
It gets without spoiling anything, it goes pretty wild at

969
01:10:34.520 --> 01:10:37.760
the end, and it's you kind of don't see it

970
01:10:37.800 --> 01:10:41.880
coming either. It's it's awesome. But what we're okay, we

971
01:10:41.880 --> 01:10:44.159
we've discussed genre a little bit. You've called it a

972
01:10:44.239 --> 01:10:46.560
dark comedy, but you could also call it a crime.

973
01:10:46.600 --> 01:10:51.039
You could call it a crime slash horror, slash lit

974
01:10:51.960 --> 01:10:55.760
dark comedy. Uh, where do you see it landing?

975
01:10:56.840 --> 01:11:02.479
Well, I mean you've very articulated the problem that I

976
01:11:02.680 --> 01:11:05.399
tend to have with my fiction that it is so

977
01:11:05.680 --> 01:11:12.680
difficult to put in any genre bogs, which kind of

978
01:11:12.720 --> 01:11:16.920
creates a problem with the marketing. It creates a problem

979
01:11:17.479 --> 01:11:22.000
with approaching publishers. It even creates a problem through the

980
01:11:22.079 --> 01:11:27.600
promotion and talking to people for podcasts, for YouTube channels,

981
01:11:28.000 --> 01:11:31.960
people on Instagram, because it's like, who who do I

982
01:11:32.199 --> 01:11:37.600
send this to? And you know, all the genres that

983
01:11:37.680 --> 01:11:40.760
you've mentioned as an argument that it fits into all

984
01:11:40.800 --> 01:11:44.319
of them, but it also doesn't fit into any of

985
01:11:44.399 --> 01:11:50.760
them neatly. You know, if there was a genre on

986
01:11:50.800 --> 01:11:55.239
the bookshelves called dark comedy, then you would put it there.

987
01:11:55.279 --> 01:11:57.960
But if you walk it into a bookstore, there just

988
01:11:58.319 --> 01:12:04.800
isn't and you know that. I think you know at

989
01:12:04.840 --> 01:12:09.880
the moment people will put and will shelve my work

990
01:12:10.079 --> 01:12:15.479
in horror because I am the creator of this as horror.

991
01:12:15.560 --> 01:12:18.279
And that's exactly what I was talking about in terms

992
01:12:18.319 --> 01:12:24.319
of just trying to have some distinction there. But I

993
01:12:25.039 --> 01:12:29.640
think if if you removed that, it's like it's horror

994
01:12:29.680 --> 01:12:35.199
adjacent again, like Dangers Later and like Max Booth, and

995
01:12:35.439 --> 01:12:40.239
like with both of them, book to book, you're going

996
01:12:40.319 --> 01:12:44.960
to get something slightly different. You know that the girl

997
01:12:45.039 --> 01:12:50.720
in the video is arguably tech horror. It's tech horror,

998
01:12:50.720 --> 01:12:54.800
but there's a splash of crime in there too. They're watching,

999
01:12:55.640 --> 01:12:59.680
I think is the most traditional horror that I've ever written.

1000
01:12:59.760 --> 01:13:03.640
But you know, it's arguably not traditional horror. But you

1001
01:13:03.680 --> 01:13:07.960
could say that that's horror, that's a cult horror, house

1002
01:13:08.000 --> 01:13:13.239
of bad memories. I mean, it's crime and it's like

1003
01:13:13.520 --> 01:13:18.119
dark thriller. But the problem is it's not traditional crime.

1004
01:13:18.520 --> 01:13:20.960
Maybe when you think of crime, you think of like

1005
01:13:21.039 --> 01:13:24.319
a police procedure role, or you think of like a

1006
01:13:24.399 --> 01:13:32.720
detective investigating some grisly murders. It it's almost like it's

1007
01:13:33.319 --> 01:13:38.600
it's people committing criminal acts, but it's not traditional crime fiction.

1008
01:13:40.520 --> 01:13:45.600
And then you come to Dadis Boy. Goddamn, you come

1009
01:13:45.680 --> 01:13:52.960
to dad is Boy? What why is this it? We

1010
01:13:53.319 --> 01:13:57.640
said it's comedy, but we also decided there is no

1011
01:13:57.840 --> 01:14:02.199
comedy sections. And now we've got a problem there. If

1012
01:14:02.239 --> 01:14:06.479
there is a comedy section, it's probably gonna be almost

1013
01:14:06.600 --> 01:14:12.520
non fiction. Michael McIntyre and Steve Coogan and Frankie Boyle

1014
01:14:13.000 --> 01:14:17.720
and you've just got all of these like humorous pieces.

1015
01:14:17.800 --> 01:14:21.239
Ricky Gervais is there too, So then there's celebrities, and

1016
01:14:21.359 --> 01:14:25.520
unfortunately Michael David Wilson is not a celebrity yet, so

1017
01:14:25.600 --> 01:14:32.359
we can't kind of sneak in there in a way.

1018
01:14:32.520 --> 01:14:34.319
In a way, you might just have to put it

1019
01:14:34.359 --> 01:14:37.359
in general fiction. But if you're picking that up with

1020
01:14:37.479 --> 01:14:41.479
your airport summer readon's going to be a very different

1021
01:14:42.800 --> 01:14:47.720
different experience indeed. So you know, I was thinking with this,

1022
01:14:47.880 --> 01:14:51.760
I was like, do do I need to create a

1023
01:14:51.920 --> 01:14:55.159
new genre? Do I just need to come up with

1024
01:14:55.239 --> 01:14:59.479
a term? And then do I just keep repeating that

1025
01:14:59.560 --> 01:15:02.319
in in views? And then if I repeat it enough,

1026
01:15:02.680 --> 01:15:06.239
people are going to associate that with me. Then when

1027
01:15:06.319 --> 01:15:09.279
they google it, even if other people write in the genre,

1028
01:15:09.359 --> 01:15:16.800
then Michael David Wilson comes up cooking. Well, Unfortunately, I'd be.

1029
01:15:16.920 --> 01:15:19.079
Wild though, Like if you created a new.

1030
01:15:19.000 --> 01:15:25.319
Genre, I've genuinely given it thought, like I'm it's not

1031
01:15:25.520 --> 01:15:28.920
even like a flippant comment, but but I don't know

1032
01:15:29.159 --> 01:15:33.039
what it would even be cooled because the problem is

1033
01:15:33.119 --> 01:15:37.720
I've got I want to jump into different things. Really,

1034
01:15:38.600 --> 01:15:42.439
i just want dark comedy thriller to take off, because

1035
01:15:42.439 --> 01:15:45.680
it always it doesn't fit in the horror comedy genre

1036
01:15:45.760 --> 01:15:49.199
because when you think of horror comedy, you think of

1037
01:15:49.279 --> 01:15:55.000
things that are kind of more slapstick or more involving monsters.

1038
01:15:55.880 --> 01:16:00.399
And that's the other thing. Like I've always been way

1039
01:16:00.439 --> 01:16:05.680
more interested in writing and actually more interested in reading

1040
01:16:06.600 --> 01:16:12.199
horror that has real life, non supernatural villains. I'm not

1041
01:16:12.359 --> 01:16:17.239
that interested in the supernatural for writing. I will read

1042
01:16:17.520 --> 01:16:23.479
well written supernatural fiction. But actually my favorite is purely

1043
01:16:23.560 --> 01:16:30.399
subjective horror fiction is real life is like Jack ketchierman

1044
01:16:30.600 --> 01:16:36.159
an your Alborn. It's just real people doing nasty, dark shit.

1045
01:16:36.479 --> 01:16:40.960
That's what I'm into, and it is probably because it's

1046
01:16:41.039 --> 01:16:45.119
more believable for me. Part of the enjoyment of horror

1047
01:16:45.399 --> 01:16:52.520
was that almost rollercoaster like scare. But if there's a ooh,

1048
01:16:52.560 --> 01:16:55.920
there's a spooky werewolf, well I don't believe in that,

1049
01:16:56.000 --> 01:16:59.119
so I'm not as I'm not as scared. It's harder

1050
01:16:59.239 --> 01:17:04.239
for me to, you know, suspend this belief, even though

1051
01:17:04.319 --> 01:17:08.079
I think the Carnivorous Lunar Activity is written by Max

1052
01:17:08.159 --> 01:17:12.199
Booth is an amazing book, but that's for the dark

1053
01:17:12.239 --> 01:17:17.000
comedy and for the dire log and just like the tension,

1054
01:17:17.199 --> 01:17:21.399
brilliant book that Max has written there. I think it

1055
01:17:21.479 --> 01:17:23.479
may be one of the few books that is out

1056
01:17:23.520 --> 01:17:26.239
of print. So Max is like, what the fuck? Why

1057
01:17:26.279 --> 01:17:32.199
are you promoting the one book? It is, like, listen, Max,

1058
01:17:32.319 --> 01:17:35.800
I also promoted a book that I'm writing that I

1059
01:17:35.880 --> 01:17:39.960
haven't finished yet. I'm good at promoting books that people

1060
01:17:40.000 --> 01:17:45.960
can't actually get hold of. But yeah, because I'm into horror,

1061
01:17:47.560 --> 01:17:50.119
like it, Like, when people think of horror, they probably

1062
01:17:50.199 --> 01:17:53.600
think of like monsters and ghosts and the supernatural anyway,

1063
01:17:53.680 --> 01:17:58.039
so it's like I'd already made the barriers to entry

1064
01:17:58.079 --> 01:18:00.600
perhaps harder by being like, right, well, I like to

1065
01:18:00.680 --> 01:18:06.359
write horror just with humans, but then that's nearer to crime.

1066
01:18:06.520 --> 01:18:10.119
But because it's more messed up, they don't put it

1067
01:18:10.159 --> 01:18:12.800
in the crime section. They put it in the horror section,

1068
01:18:14.159 --> 01:18:16.399
and then it's like, well, how can we make this

1069
01:18:17.159 --> 01:18:20.800
even less commercial? This is not a deliberate question I asked,

1070
01:18:20.800 --> 01:18:23.319
this is just what happened. Oh well, why don't we

1071
01:18:23.399 --> 01:18:28.319
make it comedic too? Yeah? Yeah, and you know so,

1072
01:18:29.039 --> 01:18:32.920
I mean, some of my favorite authors are people like

1073
01:18:33.159 --> 01:18:36.279
John Niven. He writes what I would say is kind

1074
01:18:36.279 --> 01:18:41.720
of dark comedy, but it's kind of more dark thriller satire.

1075
01:18:41.800 --> 01:18:47.079
But with him, it's very much focused on something specific.

1076
01:18:47.239 --> 01:18:52.720
So he writes about the nineties britpop music industry. That's

1077
01:18:52.840 --> 01:18:56.279
kind of a hook. That's some social commentary. And a

1078
01:18:56.319 --> 01:18:59.640
lot of these comedy is they have like an issue

1079
01:19:00.399 --> 01:19:04.079
that there's something that's attached to something that you can

1080
01:19:04.159 --> 01:19:09.479
really clearly see that is what this is satirizing. But

1081
01:19:09.560 --> 01:19:16.079
with Daddy's Boy, it's a commentary on familiar relationships and

1082
01:19:16.159 --> 01:19:20.000
on parenthood, but it is not hooked to any big

1083
01:19:20.159 --> 01:19:27.680
social or cultural issue. It's incredibly difficult to sell. But

1084
01:19:28.800 --> 01:19:32.920
in terms of like finding a genre, I couldn't find

1085
01:19:33.159 --> 01:19:37.000
like a new genre label that would be succinct and

1086
01:19:37.079 --> 01:19:40.319
would really people would get it because it it's a

1087
01:19:40.359 --> 01:19:44.600
comedy of errors, but they're not going to write that

1088
01:19:44.760 --> 01:19:47.560
on the bookshelf. You know, I wanted something like when

1089
01:19:47.600 --> 01:19:53.039
people coined bizarro, but I want my own version of

1090
01:19:53.039 --> 01:19:59.239
that one word that encapsulates it. But probably what's going

1091
01:19:59.279 --> 01:20:02.199
to happen is I'm just gonna have to keep writing

1092
01:20:02.279 --> 01:20:06.399
and writing and writing, and hope that eventually, like Joe

1093
01:20:06.479 --> 01:20:10.520
ar Lansdale, that people will, you know, with him, they'll say, well,

1094
01:20:10.600 --> 01:20:14.359
it's in the Joe ar Lansdale genre. With me, is

1095
01:20:14.359 --> 01:20:18.520
in the Michael David Wilson genre, and that's what it is.

1096
01:20:18.560 --> 01:20:20.079
It's mdw is.

1097
01:20:20.760 --> 01:20:25.119
Honestly, I could be w cool or whatever. I could

1098
01:20:25.159 --> 01:20:27.960
see it going that way because when I read one

1099
01:20:27.960 --> 01:20:31.000
of your books, and I've learned this this, like especially

1100
01:20:31.119 --> 01:20:33.239
last year, when I read the bulk of your books,

1101
01:20:35.159 --> 01:20:38.960
I find myself just slipping in to your writing and

1102
01:20:39.960 --> 01:20:44.640
your story, and pretty soon you're forgetting all about any

1103
01:20:44.680 --> 01:20:49.079
expectations you may have had and you're just enjoying your time.

1104
01:20:49.720 --> 01:20:52.800
And that's exactly the way it is with jar Lansdale,

1105
01:20:53.239 --> 01:20:57.199
and so suddenly genre doesn't matter anymore. You're just there

1106
01:20:57.279 --> 01:21:00.760
because this story is so fucking good and characters are

1107
01:21:00.760 --> 01:21:04.119
so fucking good, so I could definitely see it going

1108
01:21:04.159 --> 01:21:06.199
that way, where this is just a Michael David Wilson

1109
01:21:06.199 --> 01:21:09.840
book and it's going to do its own thing and

1110
01:21:10.199 --> 01:21:11.000
we're here for it.

1111
01:21:12.279 --> 01:21:16.960
Yeah. Yeah, And I mean a number of people, including yourself,

1112
01:21:17.000 --> 01:21:19.319
with Daddy's Boy, and I think you said the same

1113
01:21:19.359 --> 01:21:22.960
with House of Bad Memories, they'll often say that they

1114
01:21:22.960 --> 01:21:27.720
couldn't predict where the story was going to end up. Yeah,

1115
01:21:28.000 --> 01:21:32.239
and I think too. I mean, in most of my stories,

1116
01:21:32.880 --> 01:21:36.800
there's an argument that they shift genres, or they at

1117
01:21:36.880 --> 01:21:40.720
least shift sub genre. So I mean, if we look

1118
01:21:40.760 --> 01:21:44.640
at House of Bad Memories purely because it's been out

1119
01:21:44.800 --> 01:21:50.119
sometimes so perhaps is less spoilery to illustrate with that

1120
01:21:50.319 --> 01:21:54.079
rather than Daddy's Boy, I mean, it starts off as

1121
01:21:54.119 --> 01:21:59.520
this like kind of gritty, dark thriller that's almost like

1122
01:21:59.720 --> 01:22:04.720
pres but then it turns into something wild like I

1123
01:22:04.840 --> 01:22:09.800
Spit on Your Grave or Old Boy is Fucking Revenge story,

1124
01:22:10.000 --> 01:22:12.600
and then by the end it has a kind of

1125
01:22:12.680 --> 01:22:17.399
left turn that's almost like kill List. So you know,

1126
01:22:17.600 --> 01:22:21.840
this is why the only thing that probably people are

1127
01:22:21.840 --> 01:22:24.359
going to start to predict is that I'm going to

1128
01:22:24.439 --> 01:22:28.079
do something unpredictable, So then maybe I'll fuck with him

1129
01:22:28.119 --> 01:22:31.039
by not doing something unpredictable and it's like, why you

1130
01:22:31.119 --> 01:22:35.640
didn't predict that? But yeah, that sounds maybe a little unsatisfying,

1131
01:22:35.760 --> 01:22:37.319
so we might.

1132
01:22:37.159 --> 01:22:37.600
Have to.

1133
01:22:39.119 --> 01:22:41.319
Well, if they do like the kind of fake out,

1134
01:22:41.359 --> 01:22:44.800
will have to make it look like, oh, he really

1135
01:22:44.840 --> 01:22:50.000
did go the predictable path. Then final page that right

1136
01:22:50.079 --> 01:22:50.960
there surprised me.

1137
01:22:51.640 --> 01:22:55.319
So yeah, yeah.

1138
01:22:54.800 --> 01:23:00.840
Yeah, but I yeah, I think as well, because I

1139
01:23:00.920 --> 01:23:05.880
do have a tendency to shift genres. It can make

1140
01:23:05.960 --> 01:23:11.319
in a way, both the back cover blab and pitching

1141
01:23:11.399 --> 01:23:16.239
to publish as or agents quite difficult because if I'm

1142
01:23:16.399 --> 01:23:18.960
going to pitch to try and do it justice, then

1143
01:23:19.000 --> 01:23:22.279
I kind of need to spoil a little bit of it.

1144
01:23:23.079 --> 01:23:26.680
But personally, for me, when I read a book or

1145
01:23:26.680 --> 01:23:30.119
when I watch a film, I go in as cold

1146
01:23:30.159 --> 01:23:33.680
as possible, Like I'm the kind of person who will

1147
01:23:33.720 --> 01:23:38.520
be surprised by like almost the inciting incident because I

1148
01:23:38.560 --> 01:23:42.039
didn't even read what was going to happen. I might

1149
01:23:42.079 --> 01:23:44.359
not even know what genre I'm watching.

1150
01:23:45.359 --> 01:23:48.960
I think that's with the territory doing these podcasts, get

1151
01:23:48.960 --> 01:23:53.079
these reading arcs right or e arcs that you in

1152
01:23:53.600 --> 01:23:55.880
preparation for the show, and often you have no idea

1153
01:23:55.880 --> 01:23:59.199
what those those books are about, and so yeah, it's

1154
01:23:59.239 --> 01:24:01.720
like boom there, yeah.

1155
01:24:02.520 --> 01:24:08.840
Yeah. So I like though that people say that they

1156
01:24:08.880 --> 01:24:14.079
can't predict where my stories are going, and I think

1157
01:24:14.359 --> 01:24:18.000
in a way when I first heard that, it's like, well,

1158
01:24:18.880 --> 01:24:21.800
now I want to keep that going, because that is

1159
01:24:22.720 --> 01:24:26.359
you know, that's a great compliment. But I don't even think.

1160
01:24:26.479 --> 01:24:29.239
I don't really need to force that to be a

1161
01:24:29.319 --> 01:24:34.239
thing that keeps happening because it's so organically does in

1162
01:24:34.279 --> 01:24:37.279
my planning and in the way that my mind works anyway,

1163
01:24:39.039 --> 01:24:42.119
I think, because I don't want to write something formulaic.

1164
01:24:42.840 --> 01:24:47.279
And you know, I don't think there's no such ling

1165
01:24:47.359 --> 01:24:54.520
as original ideas or original genres, but there's original ways

1166
01:24:54.560 --> 01:24:59.239
of doing it or original kind of shifts and decisions

1167
01:24:59.279 --> 01:25:03.800
that you can make. So often I might ask myself, well,

1168
01:25:03.800 --> 01:25:07.399
what would be what would be the most obvious thing

1169
01:25:07.479 --> 01:25:10.760
that could happen next, And it's like, okay, well we're

1170
01:25:10.760 --> 01:25:17.079
not doing that, so what do we do now? So

1171
01:25:17.359 --> 01:25:23.680
I think, actually, like ending the story that can be

1172
01:25:23.840 --> 01:25:26.720
the hardest part or the thing where I really have

1173
01:25:26.840 --> 01:25:31.239
to have to think and obsess over it the most.

1174
01:25:31.960 --> 01:25:35.039
Yeah, I like how everything kind of comes together too,

1175
01:25:35.239 --> 01:25:37.680
like a lot of the elements that you've built throughout

1176
01:25:37.720 --> 01:25:43.720
the book by the time it becomes essential sometimes in

1177
01:25:43.760 --> 01:25:47.960
some cases for the ending, is that difficult to piece

1178
01:25:48.000 --> 01:25:49.520
together or does it happen naturally?

1179
01:25:51.079 --> 01:25:55.079
Well, I mean, i think I'm a great fan of foreshadowing,

1180
01:25:55.600 --> 01:26:01.399
and I've just kind of inserting little easter eggs within

1181
01:26:01.479 --> 01:26:06.560
the text. So, I mean, I always plan my novels,

1182
01:26:06.680 --> 01:26:09.399
but at the same time, I give myself permission to

1183
01:26:09.520 --> 01:26:14.600
deviate from the plan if something better comes along during

1184
01:26:14.640 --> 01:26:17.279
the writing. But I do need that initial plan to

1185
01:26:17.359 --> 01:26:20.920
at least have a sense as to where I intend

1186
01:26:20.960 --> 01:26:26.159
to go. And so then through the first draft the

1187
01:26:26.199 --> 01:26:31.039
things that I know will definitely happen, I might put

1188
01:26:31.159 --> 01:26:36.960
some nods or some references very early on, just as

1189
01:26:37.000 --> 01:26:41.079
a little wink to the reader, although usually so certain

1190
01:26:41.159 --> 01:26:44.479
that it would only be a wink on a secondary reading.

1191
01:26:45.439 --> 01:26:48.600
But then once I've done the first draft, and particularly

1192
01:26:48.640 --> 01:26:52.439
as I'm getting towards the final draft stage, now now

1193
01:26:52.479 --> 01:26:55.960
I can really foreshadow and I can really make sure

1194
01:26:57.720 --> 01:27:02.359
that what we're doing is it is like relevant, is

1195
01:27:02.520 --> 01:27:09.640
tying everything in. So I think someoneost like you asked

1196
01:27:09.680 --> 01:27:11.800
it if it takes a lot of work, or if

1197
01:27:11.840 --> 01:27:15.479
it comes natural and as paradoxical as it might be,

1198
01:27:15.600 --> 01:27:20.680
it it's kind of both. Like it, I am naturally

1199
01:27:20.800 --> 01:27:24.800
quite good at foreshadowing, but then once I've done numerous drafts,

1200
01:27:24.880 --> 01:27:27.720
it's like, Okay, now we're going to take it up

1201
01:27:27.720 --> 01:27:32.880
to the next level. Because I like everything to have

1202
01:27:32.920 --> 01:27:37.039
a purpose. I don't really want there to be a

1203
01:27:37.159 --> 01:27:41.119
mcguffin or something that is just there and there was

1204
01:27:41.239 --> 01:27:44.600
no point to it. If there's something in and there

1205
01:27:44.680 --> 01:27:47.399
seems that there was no point, then probably the point

1206
01:27:47.680 --> 01:27:52.560
was to have no point. It was a deliberate decision there.

1207
01:27:52.760 --> 01:27:58.680
So yeah, I'm I think being meticulous is the kind

1208
01:27:58.760 --> 01:28:02.520
of general theme when something that comes up again and again,

1209
01:28:02.680 --> 01:28:08.840
which is hopefully something that you know helps me as

1210
01:28:08.880 --> 01:28:12.239
an editor as well, because I don't do as much

1211
01:28:12.319 --> 01:28:16.319
of it. But I am open to freelance editing too.

1212
01:28:16.520 --> 01:28:20.479
I did editing with this as Horror. Really before I

1213
01:28:20.560 --> 01:28:24.600
was doing editing, before I was like writing my own

1214
01:28:24.680 --> 01:28:28.479
fiction into the serious nest that I am now, And

1215
01:28:28.520 --> 01:28:34.399
of course before that, I started off with Rebellion Publishing

1216
01:28:34.520 --> 01:28:38.760
and other kind of small presses. So I think I

1217
01:28:38.800 --> 01:28:43.359
think editing and writing certainly complement one another. Particularly for

1218
01:28:43.720 --> 01:28:48.119
the specific nature of foreshadowing and making everything tie together.

1219
01:28:48.880 --> 01:28:54.720
Yeah, before we move on to the outro, I was wondering.

1220
01:28:54.840 --> 01:28:58.439
We talked a lot about the cursing, and this kind

1221
01:28:58.439 --> 01:29:01.560
of came up while we were talking about that. It

1222
01:29:01.640 --> 01:29:06.520
made me think suddenly of how some people in reviews

1223
01:29:06.560 --> 01:29:08.439
will be like, I didn't like this, They said the

1224
01:29:08.520 --> 01:29:13.039
effort too much? Is that ever a consideration to you

1225
01:29:13.920 --> 01:29:16.479
while you're writing. And I want to know if you've

1226
01:29:16.520 --> 01:29:20.520
had any surprising feedback for Daddy's Boy yet despite it

1227
01:29:20.560 --> 01:29:23.159
not being released yet, but there are some reviews up,

1228
01:29:23.239 --> 01:29:27.000
so any surprising feedback.

1229
01:29:29.199 --> 01:29:33.239
So I mean, firstly, it's not a tremendous concern if

1230
01:29:33.239 --> 01:29:36.119
people say, oh, there's too much casting in my fiction.

1231
01:29:36.279 --> 01:29:39.560
It's such a part of the texture and what I'm doing. Yeah,

1232
01:29:40.680 --> 01:29:46.159
somebody said that to guy Richie R Quentin Tarantino. This

1233
01:29:46.239 --> 01:29:49.039
is part of the genre. This is part of the fabric.

1234
01:29:49.159 --> 01:29:55.760
This is almost part of a MDW book. So you're

1235
01:29:55.760 --> 01:30:00.880
going to get cursing in it. And this is replicating

1236
01:30:01.960 --> 01:30:06.840
real life. This is real life mostly in the UK

1237
01:30:07.199 --> 01:30:11.079
or with British characters. That's I don't know what to

1238
01:30:11.159 --> 01:30:13.840
tell you. We say fuck a lot. We say a

1239
01:30:13.880 --> 01:30:17.399
lot more than just fuck, And I'm not going to

1240
01:30:18.479 --> 01:30:22.399
self censor because somebody who wasn't my audience to begin

1241
01:30:22.520 --> 01:30:29.159
with doesn't like that. That's okay. You can you can

1242
01:30:29.199 --> 01:30:32.680
pick up another book, or you can pick up my book.

1243
01:30:32.760 --> 01:30:35.159
And if you're being at tool to kind of do

1244
01:30:35.319 --> 01:30:38.319
control f every time they say fuck, you can say

1245
01:30:38.359 --> 01:30:43.560
flip or fudge, depending on or flopping. I'm not sure

1246
01:30:43.600 --> 01:30:44.840
if flopping.

1247
01:30:44.520 --> 01:30:46.119
Is that's flopping ridiculous.

1248
01:30:46.600 --> 01:30:48.920
Yeah, I don't even know do people say that? But

1249
01:30:49.039 --> 01:30:54.800
now you can. You can create your own genre in

1250
01:30:55.119 --> 01:31:00.960
instead of dickhead, what good you say? You you poorkhead?

1251
01:31:01.159 --> 01:31:04.680
You need the old sausage, you.

1252
01:31:04.600 --> 01:31:07.079
Know, so you get you're just a frozen sausage.

1253
01:31:07.439 --> 01:31:13.680
Yeah, there are a lot of in Daddy's Boys. So yeah,

1254
01:31:14.880 --> 01:31:18.720
it's something like it's something I'm aware of, and it's

1255
01:31:18.760 --> 01:31:22.119
something I'm aware of with the podcast as well. I

1256
01:31:22.159 --> 01:31:25.640
actually think in the last year I swear less on

1257
01:31:25.680 --> 01:31:31.920
the podcast than I used to. I kind of think

1258
01:31:32.000 --> 01:31:36.399
with swearing in general, it's like if it will elevate

1259
01:31:36.479 --> 01:31:39.319
the sentence or the point, then do it, and if

1260
01:31:39.319 --> 01:31:42.680
it won't, then don't. Kind Of like punctuation kind of

1261
01:31:42.760 --> 01:31:47.720
like any word really, but there is certainly a place

1262
01:31:47.920 --> 01:31:55.199
for profanity. And yeah, I I really don't care. Like

1263
01:31:55.359 --> 01:31:58.119
if somebody says there was a lot of swearing in this,

1264
01:31:58.319 --> 01:32:02.199
it's like, well, yeah, no, ship, there was not a revelation.

1265
01:32:02.520 --> 01:32:06.560
You're not surprised me with that. So, you know, the

1266
01:32:07.119 --> 01:32:13.279
only thing I suppose at the moment, like I'm open

1267
01:32:13.439 --> 01:32:18.840
to getting a literary agent, I don't know, would I

1268
01:32:18.960 --> 01:32:24.079
scrutinize the first page, you're the sample a little bit more.

1269
01:32:24.680 --> 01:32:27.279
I think I just make sure that every bit of

1270
01:32:27.359 --> 01:32:32.000
profanity counts. But I kind of do that anyway. So,

1271
01:32:32.399 --> 01:32:35.000
I mean, we spoke about it before. You might think

1272
01:32:35.079 --> 01:32:38.119
there's a lot of swearing in it, but each one

1273
01:32:38.239 --> 01:32:39.880
is there to serve a purpose.

1274
01:32:40.079 --> 01:32:43.399
So yeah, actually I didn't think so myself, But when

1275
01:32:43.439 --> 01:32:45.119
we were talking about it, I was like, yeah, you

1276
01:32:45.119 --> 01:32:47.199
know what, there is a lot of swearing, but it's

1277
01:32:47.279 --> 01:32:50.000
not something that bothers me. In fact, I appreciate it

1278
01:32:50.039 --> 01:32:54.600
because I work blue collar jobs and whatnot. And let

1279
01:32:54.680 --> 01:32:57.359
me tell you, man, like, swearing is a way of life.

1280
01:32:57.399 --> 01:33:02.760
It's a very easy way to annoy nunciate your emotions, right, right,

1281
01:33:03.199 --> 01:33:05.640
But some people don't get that. They just I don't

1282
01:33:05.640 --> 01:33:08.159
know what it is, but they're like, you know, polate

1283
01:33:08.279 --> 01:33:10.760
society or whatever you want to call it. They're just

1284
01:33:12.079 --> 01:33:15.800
totally offended by it. And that's something that's always interested

1285
01:33:15.840 --> 01:33:17.720
me and bothered me at the same time.

1286
01:33:19.079 --> 01:33:25.199
Yeah, I mean it kind of reminds me like I'm

1287
01:33:25.239 --> 01:33:28.680
gonna kind of butcher it. And there's been different people

1288
01:33:28.720 --> 01:33:32.359
who have made this point before, so I don't even

1289
01:33:32.439 --> 01:33:37.520
need to give like a specific example, but you'll see,

1290
01:33:37.640 --> 01:33:43.840
like somebody will have a rant about a really deplorable person.

1291
01:33:44.520 --> 01:33:49.800
Let's imagine in this situation it's Hitler, because generally it's

1292
01:33:49.920 --> 01:33:53.479
not too controversial to be like Hitler, he was a

1293
01:33:53.520 --> 01:33:56.520
bad guy. And then someone might be like, you know,

1294
01:33:56.680 --> 01:33:59.960
hit Hitler is absolute fucking cunt, and they're like, well,

1295
01:34:01.199 --> 01:34:05.680
I mean he was, but but what was it? Was

1296
01:34:05.720 --> 01:34:10.760
it really necessary to to use such a course language.

1297
01:34:10.800 --> 01:34:14.880
I mean, I don't really think that was appropriate. And

1298
01:34:14.920 --> 01:34:18.640
it got hang on a fucking minute. It is like

1299
01:34:20.079 --> 01:34:24.319
you are taking issue with the fact that I called

1300
01:34:24.399 --> 01:34:29.960
Hitler a fucking cunt, rather than the fact that he

1301
01:34:30.760 --> 01:34:38.319
sent millions of people predominantly Jewish to a concentration camp

1302
01:34:38.600 --> 01:34:42.640
and killed them. And and you want to you want

1303
01:34:42.680 --> 01:34:47.960
to take issue the fact that I used it's disgusting,

1304
01:34:48.520 --> 01:34:55.399
a horrible, beastly word. Oh fuck, you get some fucking perspective.

1305
01:34:57.399 --> 01:35:01.239
Yeah, it's much more effective to say a fucking currant

1306
01:35:01.479 --> 01:35:04.000
than a floppy Willie Wegg. Yeah.

1307
01:35:04.039 --> 01:35:07.039
And it's like, what what would you what would you

1308
01:35:07.079 --> 01:35:11.760
prefer me to kill a mass fucking murderer or would

1309
01:35:11.800 --> 01:35:16.479
you prefer somebody who who commits jenes? I did? Do you?

1310
01:35:16.800 --> 01:35:18.279
Was it necessary to go?

1311
01:35:18.520 --> 01:35:18.720
Yes?

1312
01:35:19.720 --> 01:35:22.720
Yes it was. If you can find a more apropos

1313
01:35:22.880 --> 01:35:27.399
phrase than calling Hitler a fucking caunt, then you're right

1314
01:35:27.520 --> 01:35:31.680
into me. There may be people listening now because also,

1315
01:35:31.760 --> 01:35:37.399
like in the UK and in Australia, kunt is very

1316
01:35:37.479 --> 01:35:44.119
much part of everyday parlance. It's interesting that in America, oh,

1317
01:35:44.239 --> 01:35:47.239
people don't like that word a little bit. Up and

1318
01:35:47.319 --> 01:35:50.399
after that, I know that the majority of my audience

1319
01:35:50.520 --> 01:35:54.880
is American, and so I presume is your YouTube channel,

1320
01:35:54.960 --> 01:36:02.319
and they're like, well until he through the through the

1321
01:36:02.439 --> 01:36:07.600
C word out, he said, so indeed it was to Hitler.

1322
01:36:08.760 --> 01:36:13.800
It wasn't like to anyone else. It was Hitler. So

1323
01:36:14.760 --> 01:36:16.479
let's put that in context.

1324
01:36:17.079 --> 01:36:24.159
Yeah, it's ridiculous, right, And and and in terms of

1325
01:36:24.279 --> 01:36:29.359
like surprising feedback with early reviews, I would say, no,

1326
01:36:29.520 --> 01:36:34.079
not surprising feedback, because I.

1327
01:36:32.920 --> 01:36:37.000
I always knew when I wrote this book that it

1328
01:36:37.039 --> 01:36:41.840
would be divisive, that it would be polarizing, that there

1329
01:36:42.239 --> 01:36:44.840
there will be people who will love it and there

1330
01:36:44.840 --> 01:36:48.920
will be people who will hate it, and that's kind

1331
01:36:49.000 --> 01:36:51.479
of I mean, I got that to a point with

1332
01:36:51.640 --> 01:36:54.479
beta readers. I've got that a little bit even with

1333
01:36:55.359 --> 01:37:01.319
early reviews, and I understand that especially Yeah, because I'm

1334
01:37:01.439 --> 01:37:04.920
convinced there is a massive audience for Daddy's Boy. But

1335
01:37:05.000 --> 01:37:08.239
what I don't entirely know is how to find that audience.

1336
01:37:08.520 --> 01:37:13.680
And that's because it sits between genres and it's not

1337
01:37:14.159 --> 01:37:18.279
easily classifiable. So it means that there will be people

1338
01:37:18.359 --> 01:37:20.520
within horror who will pick it up. There will be

1339
01:37:20.600 --> 01:37:24.319
people within the crime fiction community who pick it up,

1340
01:37:25.199 --> 01:37:29.479
and it won't be for them, and I've always known

1341
01:37:29.520 --> 01:37:34.399
that that would be the case. You know, I don't

1342
01:37:34.439 --> 01:37:37.880
feel great, you know, when I hear that people have

1343
01:37:38.000 --> 01:37:41.800
had a bad time with it, but not in a

1344
01:37:41.840 --> 01:37:46.520
way that kind of damages my ego. But just because

1345
01:37:46.600 --> 01:37:49.600
I like being kind to people, I want people who

1346
01:37:49.640 --> 01:37:52.800
pick up my book to have a good time. I

1347
01:37:52.920 --> 01:37:55.560
want them to enjoy it, and if you don't enjoy it,

1348
01:37:55.640 --> 01:37:57.960
don't pick it up. I don't want you to waste

1349
01:37:58.000 --> 01:38:03.560
your money, your time. So, you know, the more that

1350
01:38:03.640 --> 01:38:08.159
I write as me, the more that people will know

1351
01:38:08.239 --> 01:38:12.399
what to expect. And I suppose, because I'm in the

1352
01:38:12.439 --> 01:38:17.680
infancy of my career, is not entirely known yet by people,

1353
01:38:17.760 --> 01:38:22.159
but it. You know, what I'm delighted by though, is like,

1354
01:38:22.279 --> 01:38:27.079
for such a polarizing book, how so many people who

1355
01:38:27.159 --> 01:38:30.399
have enjoyed my fiction before are also with me for

1356
01:38:30.439 --> 01:38:34.039
this step too. You know, when I sent this out

1357
01:38:34.680 --> 01:38:39.319
for Blurbs, I primarily sent it out to people who

1358
01:38:40.399 --> 01:38:44.720
write comedic horror or write things that kind of flirts

1359
01:38:44.800 --> 01:38:49.079
with comedy. The one wild card who I sent it

1360
01:38:49.119 --> 01:38:52.640
out with, and I don't I have no idea how

1361
01:38:52.680 --> 01:38:56.239
he's going to react, but he really enjoyed House of

1362
01:38:56.279 --> 01:39:00.119
Bad Memories. I just want to take a chance, And

1363
01:39:00.119 --> 01:39:06.520
that was Eric larcer Because Eric Larker. Eric Larker is

1364
01:39:06.560 --> 01:39:09.000
one of the best writers on the planet and he

1365
01:39:09.199 --> 01:39:18.119
writes just such poetical, beautifully grotesque horror and dark fiction.

1366
01:39:19.119 --> 01:39:24.800
He is controversial, he will push boundaries. Yep, he is

1367
01:39:25.199 --> 01:39:32.880
a true artist. But you know, Eric Larker on the

1368
01:39:32.920 --> 01:39:37.279
page at least, and probably in person two, He's not

1369
01:39:37.520 --> 01:39:41.600
renowned for dick jokes. It's not like, oh, if you

1370
01:39:41.680 --> 01:39:47.640
want to teledict jo, you fucking ringer. Eric, He's the one.

1371
01:39:48.640 --> 01:39:52.000
So I knew that he'd enjoyed House of Bad Memories,

1372
01:39:52.079 --> 01:39:55.720
so it's like, okay, that's a good start. How will

1373
01:39:55.840 --> 01:40:00.920
Eric find Daddy's Boy? And and then you know, he

1374
01:40:01.039 --> 01:40:04.960
came back and he really he gave me a wonderful

1375
01:40:05.039 --> 01:40:07.359
blurb for it. So I was so happy. But I

1376
01:40:07.840 --> 01:40:10.000
didn't know if I was going to get an email,

1377
01:40:10.920 --> 01:40:15.720
you know, from Eric, you know, saying like I you know,

1378
01:40:16.119 --> 01:40:18.760
because he's so polite, so he would have said, you know,

1379
01:40:18.840 --> 01:40:22.520
he's really sorry. But it wasn't for him me cunning,

1380
01:40:22.640 --> 01:40:26.079
good conscience blurb this or whatever, and I would have

1381
01:40:26.239 --> 01:40:32.680
totally understood. But instead I get this gorgeous blurb. So

1382
01:40:33.319 --> 01:40:36.159
I'm going to read it to you, so sure this

1383
01:40:36.239 --> 01:40:39.199
is me not knowing how is Eric going to react?

1384
01:40:39.239 --> 01:40:44.319
And I get this dripping with wit and nastiness. Michael

1385
01:40:44.399 --> 01:40:47.840
David Wilson's Daddy's Boy is a gem of a dark

1386
01:40:48.000 --> 01:40:53.720
comedy thriller as always, Wilson's prose is fiery and provocative.

1387
01:40:54.399 --> 01:40:58.039
This excellent novel took me by the throat on the

1388
01:40:58.119 --> 01:41:03.000
first page and through surprised me until the bitter end.

1389
01:41:04.479 --> 01:41:07.000
Holy fucking shit, I guess Eric liked it.

1390
01:41:07.039 --> 01:41:10.680
Then, well you know what, he fucking nailed it. That

1391
01:41:10.880 --> 01:41:14.680
is your book in a nutshell, and it's a It's

1392
01:41:14.720 --> 01:41:23.840
beautiful in a very funny and upsetting way. And thank

1393
01:41:23.880 --> 01:41:26.279
you for thank you for sharing it with me because

1394
01:41:26.319 --> 01:41:28.760
I can't wait until the audio book comes out because

1395
01:41:28.760 --> 01:41:30.880
I want to listen to that, I want to reread

1396
01:41:30.960 --> 01:41:33.479
it with my eyes. I want to get the physical book.

1397
01:41:34.680 --> 01:41:38.199
I absolutely adored it. It's my favorite from you right now,

1398
01:41:39.039 --> 01:41:41.680
and I can't wait to read more from you, honestly.

1399
01:41:42.920 --> 01:41:46.479
Yeah and yeah, well, I mean hopefully you won't have

1400
01:41:46.520 --> 01:41:49.479
to wait too long to read more from me, because,

1401
01:41:49.960 --> 01:41:54.359
as I said, I've got the novella thirty nine thousand words,

1402
01:41:54.399 --> 01:41:58.199
almost a novel. They pay me enough, it becomes a novel,

1403
01:41:58.560 --> 01:42:02.720
and that is that is ready to go. That's with

1404
01:42:02.840 --> 01:42:06.680
a publisher at the moment. We'll see what happens on

1405
01:42:06.720 --> 01:42:10.000
that front. But yeah, this story is ready to ship.

1406
01:42:10.880 --> 01:42:14.359
Then I've got this other novel that I'm working on

1407
01:42:15.680 --> 01:42:20.760
that I really I want that one to be finished

1408
01:42:20.800 --> 01:42:24.159
by the end of the year. And I also want,

1409
01:42:24.479 --> 01:42:28.720
if possible, the collaborative novel with John Crinnin to be

1410
01:42:28.800 --> 01:42:32.119
finished by the end of the year. That's one book

1411
01:42:32.199 --> 01:42:35.479
ready to go. That's two books hopefully ready to go

1412
01:42:35.560 --> 01:42:39.520
by the end of the year. And then there's also

1413
01:42:39.640 --> 01:42:44.399
sixty thousand words of another novel I need to revisit.

1414
01:42:44.600 --> 01:42:48.560
So you know, one thing's for sure. I'm going to

1415
01:42:48.720 --> 01:42:57.600
keep writing fiction. And I guess you know, because it

1416
01:42:57.680 --> 01:43:01.720
doesn't fit into as you rebots, they are harder to

1417
01:43:01.840 --> 01:43:07.800
sell that There are sometimes times where I don't know.

1418
01:43:07.960 --> 01:43:11.399
I just feel like what am I doing? What is

1419
01:43:11.439 --> 01:43:14.560
the next step? But when I talk to people like

1420
01:43:14.720 --> 01:43:18.279
you and I get blurbs like I have from Eric,

1421
01:43:18.840 --> 01:43:23.640
is like, I don't know one hundred percent what I'm

1422
01:43:23.840 --> 01:43:26.439
going to do. But what I do know is I'm

1423
01:43:26.520 --> 01:43:30.399
going to keep writing. I'm going to put these stories

1424
01:43:30.479 --> 01:43:37.239
into the world. And rather than compromising the MDW voice,

1425
01:43:37.279 --> 01:43:40.840
I'm just doubling down and embracing it. And I'm being

1426
01:43:40.920 --> 01:43:44.039
me because I might not have all the answers, but

1427
01:43:44.079 --> 01:43:50.039
I think writing honestly and authentically is the kind of

1428
01:43:50.159 --> 01:43:53.640
truest and the best way to be. We don't know

1429
01:43:54.840 --> 01:43:59.239
what the future will hold. We can't control everything, but

1430
01:43:59.319 --> 01:44:01.720
we can control or what we do. And what I

1431
01:44:01.840 --> 01:44:07.279
do is write these weird, fucking sweary stories with a

1432
01:44:07.319 --> 01:44:10.399
lot of comedy. Yeah, I'm gonna continue doing it, and

1433
01:44:10.439 --> 01:44:16.600
I'm hugely appreciative of your support. Like it's so, it's

1434
01:44:16.640 --> 01:44:20.439
so good to hit it. Basically every book I've written,

1435
01:44:20.520 --> 01:44:23.840
it's resonated with you. That's that's a good hit rate.

1436
01:44:24.079 --> 01:44:27.000
Well, it's weird because like every book, it gets better.

1437
01:44:28.439 --> 01:44:31.720
I enjoyed the Girl in the video. That was great,

1438
01:44:32.520 --> 01:44:36.399
But then I listened to the audiobook of their watching

1439
01:44:37.119 --> 01:44:41.039
and that was really great. And then House of Bad Memories,

1440
01:44:41.039 --> 01:44:43.479
I was like, wow, that's my favorite. I love that one.

1441
01:44:44.000 --> 01:44:45.640
And then I read Daddy's Boy and it was like,

1442
01:44:45.800 --> 01:44:49.079
Jesus Christ, how can how can it even get better

1443
01:44:49.159 --> 01:44:54.000
than this? Like I'll say one more compliment. And I

1444
01:44:54.039 --> 01:44:57.800
think it was on the Arc podcast where uh this

1445
01:44:58.000 --> 01:45:02.239
was pushed around. But I would personally love to see

1446
01:45:02.319 --> 01:45:07.720
Daddy's Boy become like a cult favorite, a cult classic

1447
01:45:08.159 --> 01:45:10.399
in the future. I would love to see it become

1448
01:45:10.600 --> 01:45:13.920
I know you discussed on that podcast about how you

1449
01:45:15.279 --> 01:45:19.880
or your film agent said that he couldn't he's not

1450
01:45:19.920 --> 01:45:23.239
sure how he could sell that. But while watching it's

1451
01:45:23.279 --> 01:45:25.680
very cinematic in a sense, I could see it being

1452
01:45:25.680 --> 01:45:27.920
a movie, and it would if it was done by

1453
01:45:27.920 --> 01:45:30.560
the right person. It would become a cult classic. There

1454
01:45:30.560 --> 01:45:34.079
would be no even if it flopped in the theaters,

1455
01:45:34.640 --> 01:45:37.439
it would be remembered because this book is just that

1456
01:45:37.600 --> 01:45:40.039
crazy and that good and I would love to see

1457
01:45:40.039 --> 01:45:40.520
that happen.

1458
01:45:41.640 --> 01:45:49.840
Yeah, well, me too, absolutely, And I mean, this is it.

1459
01:45:49.960 --> 01:45:53.880
When I knew that I was putting it out into

1460
01:45:53.920 --> 01:45:59.479
the world, I felt it could either completely flop because

1461
01:45:59.520 --> 01:46:02.479
there's this the appetite for this. It's not the Naughties,

1462
01:46:02.520 --> 01:46:07.520
it's not the two tens anymore. Or it could become

1463
01:46:08.720 --> 01:46:12.479
a cult classic. There could be something about it. And

1464
01:46:14.239 --> 01:46:18.680
you know, with any book, and maybe even particularly this one,

1465
01:46:20.319 --> 01:46:24.199
I won't know whether it will become a cult classic

1466
01:46:24.319 --> 01:46:27.439
until it does. So if I release it and it

1467
01:46:27.479 --> 01:46:31.239
doesn't do very well in the first month, this is

1468
01:46:31.279 --> 01:46:35.319
a lung game. It just takes somebody in a couple

1469
01:46:35.399 --> 01:46:40.960
of years picking it up and then you know, reading

1470
01:46:41.720 --> 01:46:45.520
out loud on like you know that massive Instagram. I

1471
01:46:45.560 --> 01:46:48.920
always joke that it will be Zach Gallifanakis and he's

1472
01:46:48.960 --> 01:46:52.920
reading these like dick jokes, and then loads of people

1473
01:46:53.680 --> 01:46:56.319
decide to pick it up. I mean, I think it's

1474
01:46:56.399 --> 01:47:00.000
got the potential of like, you know, a Napoleon Dynamite

1475
01:47:00.159 --> 01:47:04.319
or a greasy Strangler. There's just something weird and an

1476
01:47:04.359 --> 01:47:09.439
offbeat about it. And this is why I keep writing

1477
01:47:09.479 --> 01:47:13.399
these books, because if one of them takes off, then

1478
01:47:13.479 --> 01:47:17.000
people will be curious and they'll look into the rest

1479
01:47:17.039 --> 01:47:22.039
of the back catalog. But it is an interesting traject

1480
01:47:22.079 --> 01:47:26.319
to read that I've taken because the most popular book

1481
01:47:26.800 --> 01:47:30.199
so far has been The Girl in the Video, and

1482
01:47:30.239 --> 01:47:35.800
then with each release, I've written further and further away

1483
01:47:36.000 --> 01:47:41.680
from what The Girl in the Video was. But I think,

1484
01:47:41.960 --> 01:47:44.720
you know, each book has been honest and has been

1485
01:47:45.760 --> 01:47:49.079
true to me. The Girl in the Video is the

1486
01:47:49.119 --> 01:47:54.119
most commercial, the kind of most kind of easily palatable.

1487
01:47:54.279 --> 01:47:57.199
But then I'm interested in just doing something a little

1488
01:47:57.199 --> 01:48:03.399
bit more obscure. Be interested to see how the novella does.

1489
01:48:04.279 --> 01:48:08.720
It's called What Would Wesley Do. I originally wrote it

1490
01:48:08.760 --> 01:48:13.479
as a short story, then I then wrote a screenplay,

1491
01:48:13.479 --> 01:48:17.439
and then from the screenplay wrote the novella. But this

1492
01:48:17.600 --> 01:48:24.359
is interesting because I originally wrote the short story around

1493
01:48:24.399 --> 01:48:27.640
the time that I wrote The Girl in the Video,

1494
01:48:28.760 --> 01:48:34.159
but then I wrote the novella version around the time

1495
01:48:34.399 --> 01:48:39.760
of Daddy's Boy and House of Bad Memories. So the

1496
01:48:39.840 --> 01:48:42.159
Girl in the video and they're watching I see them

1497
01:48:42.239 --> 01:48:45.000
as a phase or a season of my career, and

1498
01:48:45.039 --> 01:48:47.880
House of Bad Memories and Daddy's Boy as the next one.

1499
01:48:48.600 --> 01:48:52.159
But what would Wesley do? It definitely has the fast

1500
01:48:52.319 --> 01:48:57.960
paced kind of thriller, ticking time clock aspect of the

1501
01:48:58.000 --> 01:49:02.399
Girl in the Video, but it has the comedy and

1502
01:49:02.479 --> 01:49:07.239
the action and the grotesque violence of House and Daddy's Boy.

1503
01:49:07.840 --> 01:49:08.239
Mm hmm.

1504
01:49:09.199 --> 01:49:13.079
So maybe this is the Secret Sauce. Maybe this is

1505
01:49:14.000 --> 01:49:20.560
maybe you know, any book you right could could be

1506
01:49:20.600 --> 01:49:23.920
the one. Yeah, which is why I keep writing.

1507
01:49:24.520 --> 01:49:28.279
Yeah, I like that. I think I found the Secret Sauce.

1508
01:49:29.279 --> 01:49:33.920
Yeah, don't ask what's in the Secret Sauce with Norman

1509
01:49:34.039 --> 01:49:38.279
and Daddy's Boy. No, it doesn't need to be stated.

1510
01:49:38.520 --> 01:49:43.359
You don't want to know. Oh man, some of those

1511
01:49:43.439 --> 01:49:53.319
characters like like uh, Comeing, Ian, Come Ian. Oh my god. Okay,

1512
01:49:53.560 --> 01:49:55.720
So I'm going to wrap things up here. I want

1513
01:49:55.720 --> 01:49:57.479
to I want to thank you so much for coming

1514
01:49:57.520 --> 01:49:59.159
on the show. It's always a pleasure to talk to

1515
01:49:59.199 --> 01:50:03.520
you before we go, though, I do have a question,

1516
01:50:03.760 --> 01:50:06.840
this is horror question. I'm just okay, I'm just curious.

1517
01:50:06.880 --> 01:50:11.920
What can listeners of This as Horror expect for the

1518
01:50:11.920 --> 01:50:14.319
rest of twenty twenty five, For.

1519
01:50:14.359 --> 01:50:16.720
The rest of twenty twenty five.

1520
01:50:16.520 --> 01:50:18.840
At least in the short short period of time.

1521
01:50:19.800 --> 01:50:22.520
I mean, what you can expect is that we will

1522
01:50:22.600 --> 01:50:30.119
consistently put out interviews and conversations with authors and creatives

1523
01:50:30.159 --> 01:50:34.720
in horror fiction on a weekly and possibly multiple times

1524
01:50:34.760 --> 01:50:39.560
per week basis. That is kind of the mainstay of

1525
01:50:39.600 --> 01:50:43.520
This Is Horror. What I'm particularly doing in twenty twenty five,

1526
01:50:44.359 --> 01:50:48.840
I'm talking to authors if I love their book, I

1527
01:50:48.880 --> 01:50:51.279
don't want to talk if I only liked your book.

1528
01:50:51.319 --> 01:50:54.680
I want to make sure that I'm so passionate about

1529
01:50:54.680 --> 01:50:57.880
what I'm doing. This is about finding the joy in

1530
01:50:58.119 --> 01:50:59.439
everything that I'm doing.

1531
01:51:00.079 --> 01:51:00.399
M hm.

1532
01:51:00.600 --> 01:51:03.000
In terms of you know what's coming up, I mean,

1533
01:51:03.039 --> 01:51:08.960
we we do have our own kind of Daddy's Boy episodes,

1534
01:51:09.039 --> 01:51:13.039
and we've also got some conversations that very Daddy's Boy

1535
01:51:13.960 --> 01:51:19.520
tangentle in that I'm talking to people who blurbed Daddy's Boy,

1536
01:51:19.600 --> 01:51:24.479
but not necessarily about Daddy's Boy. So we've got a

1537
01:51:24.520 --> 01:51:28.760
conversation with Dangers later, and we'll be recording with Jason

1538
01:51:28.840 --> 01:51:33.600
Padjin and with Brian Asman, and with Jasper Bark nice

1539
01:51:34.119 --> 01:51:38.560
and in terms of the rest of you know, the

1540
01:51:38.720 --> 01:51:43.439
year and things coming up, Will will finally be talking

1541
01:51:43.520 --> 01:51:51.039
to CJ. Lead, who wrote American Rapture, amongst other books,

1542
01:51:54.279 --> 01:51:55.680
landing what what was that?

1543
01:51:55.760 --> 01:51:58.239
Sorry?

1544
01:51:58.560 --> 01:52:05.000
Well she did. We should also be talking to Dean

1545
01:52:05.079 --> 01:52:08.039
Koontz again. It's always good to get him on the show.

1546
01:52:08.119 --> 01:52:12.119
It's always surreal. He's got a new book that's coming

1547
01:52:12.199 --> 01:52:18.239
out imminently. And you know, in terms of the booking

1548
01:52:18.359 --> 01:52:22.840
of guests, I'm trying not to overbook, and my schedule

1549
01:52:22.960 --> 01:52:26.479
is such that it is kind of a little bit erratic.

1550
01:52:26.600 --> 01:52:29.479
So there's people who I've got a list of people

1551
01:52:29.520 --> 01:52:32.880
where it's like I will be getting them on the show,

1552
01:52:32.920 --> 01:52:37.119
but we haven't arranged a date yet, so all I

1553
01:52:37.119 --> 01:52:40.680
can say is, you know, people who are vaguely in

1554
01:52:40.720 --> 01:52:45.399
the horror and dark comedy and that kind of area

1555
01:52:45.520 --> 01:52:48.399
which lights me up, we will be talking to them.

1556
01:52:48.960 --> 01:52:52.079
Yeah, awesome. Well, I'm looking forward to all of it,

1557
01:52:52.279 --> 01:52:55.399
and thank you again. Where can people reach you online

1558
01:52:55.439 --> 01:52:59.079
if they want to keep up with what's coming out?

1559
01:52:59.640 --> 01:53:02.520
Well, I mean, obviously the best way to support me

1560
01:53:02.720 --> 01:53:07.319
is the Patreon Patreon dot com forward slash Michael David Wilson.

1561
01:53:07.399 --> 01:53:11.079
And then for this is Horror Patreon dot com forward

1562
01:53:11.119 --> 01:53:15.439
slash This is Horror. In terms of social media, it's

1563
01:53:15.439 --> 01:53:20.159
obviously got pretty fragmented over the last year or so.

1564
01:53:20.920 --> 01:53:26.720
I think the place where I update the most is

1565
01:53:27.279 --> 01:53:30.199
the Blue Sky, which is at this is Horror dot

1566
01:53:30.239 --> 01:53:35.439
bsky dot social And with this as Horror, we also

1567
01:53:35.720 --> 01:53:38.479
do have a YouTube channel where we put all of

1568
01:53:38.520 --> 01:53:41.880
the episodes up, which is YouTube dot com forward slash

1569
01:53:41.960 --> 01:53:47.720
at this is Horror podcast. So I went different options.

1570
01:53:47.840 --> 01:53:50.520
I will try to put all that in the show notes,

1571
01:53:50.560 --> 01:53:55.199
so everyone check that out. And thank you Michael. I

1572
01:53:55.239 --> 01:53:56.399
can't wait to talk to you again.

1573
01:53:57.359 --> 01:54:01.119
Yeah, thank you. It is always a plan. And thank

1574
01:54:01.159 --> 01:54:03.479
you one more time for all the support that you've

1575
01:54:03.520 --> 01:54:06.079
given me, not just for Daddy's a Boy, but over

1576
01:54:06.119 --> 01:54:06.640
the years.

1577
01:54:07.119 --> 01:54:13.920
Yeah, not a problem. Thank you so much for listening

1578
01:54:13.960 --> 01:54:17.600
to my conversation with Michael David Wilson. I had a

1579
01:54:17.600 --> 01:54:19.520
blast and I can't wait to talk to him again.

1580
01:54:21.239 --> 01:54:24.840
Go buy his book, Daddy's Boy. The link for that

1581
01:54:24.960 --> 01:54:28.840
will be in the description. It drops the same day

1582
01:54:28.920 --> 01:54:31.800
as this recording, so I hope you're all prepared for

1583
01:54:31.920 --> 01:54:36.119
one hell of a good ride. It's a lot of fun.

1584
01:54:36.560 --> 01:54:39.880
If you want to support Weird Reads, there's a few

1585
01:54:39.920 --> 01:54:43.119
ways you can do so. The free and easiest way

1586
01:54:43.640 --> 01:54:48.600
is to go rate the podcast on Spotify, and you

1587
01:54:48.640 --> 01:54:52.399
can also rate it and review it on Apple Podcasts.

1588
01:54:53.319 --> 01:54:57.479
If you do that, this helps both those platforms find

1589
01:54:57.520 --> 01:55:01.279
a way to share this show with other people who

1590
01:55:01.359 --> 01:55:04.439
might enjoy it, and that helps the show grow, and

1591
01:55:04.600 --> 01:55:06.720
I would like to see it grow. I hope that

1592
01:55:06.800 --> 01:55:09.439
you would like to see it grow as well. And

1593
01:55:09.960 --> 01:55:12.680
if you want to support with your money, you can

1594
01:55:12.720 --> 01:55:17.840
do so easily by joining the Patreon and that's at

1595
01:55:18.039 --> 01:55:24.520
patreon dot com. Forward slash Jason Underscore white links for

1596
01:55:24.600 --> 01:55:27.880
that will be in the show notes, and there's a

1597
01:55:27.880 --> 01:55:31.760
few different tiers there. But the money goes into helping me.

1598
01:55:33.600 --> 01:55:36.199
It helps the show be hosted, it helps me not

1599
01:55:36.359 --> 01:55:38.920
have to pay I've been paying for this type of

1600
01:55:38.920 --> 01:55:42.840
stuff for over ten years. It would be really helpful

1601
01:55:42.960 --> 01:55:45.640
if you could help, just with the hosting costs alone,

1602
01:55:45.680 --> 01:55:48.680
but I would also like to upgrade my equipment, and

1603
01:55:49.640 --> 01:55:53.520
of course becoming a Patreon would help with that. All right,

1604
01:55:53.600 --> 01:55:57.720
so thanks again for listening. I appreciate everyone who does listen,

1605
01:55:58.439 --> 01:56:03.079
and until next time, being weird because being weird is

1606
01:56:03.079 --> 01:56:06.119
so important in these days. And we will catch you

1607
01:56:06.479 --> 01:56:55.119
in the next episode.