Feb. 17, 2025

048 - The New God with Jeffrey Thomas (& Special Guest Ian Rogers)

048 - The New God with Jeffrey Thomas (& Special Guest Ian Rogers)
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Season 2

Ian Rogers and I explore Jeffrey Thomas's Punktown stories including his novel The New God: A Punkown Novel. We also discuss his early reading life, his influences, and more! Check out Jeffrey Thomas's work on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Jeffrey-Thomas/author/B000APMJZ4

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WEBVTT

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You're listening to the Weird Reader podcast, an extension of

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Jason's Weird Reads found on YouTube.

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Welcome, Hello, Welcome everybody today, I am very happy to

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welcome a new guest of the show, and that is

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Jeffrey Thomas. Jeffrey Thomas, you may know, is popular for

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writing the punk Town short story collections and novels. And

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I got my stupid thing on here, all right, and

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Thomas or sorry, Jeffrey, would you like to introduce yourself quickly?

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Sure, Jeffrey Thomas. And yeah, I write a lot of

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I write in the genres of science fiction and horror,

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but I like to mash those together, and usually I

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mationals together in my Punkdown series, I've written since two

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thousand and I've had quite a few punk Down books released,

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short story collections and novels. The first one was published

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by Jeff Vandermire when he had his own small press

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called Minister at Whimsy Press. And yeah, and my newest

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one has called The New God and that's from Weird

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House Press.

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Awesome, and also joining me tonight is my new friend

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Ian Rodgers. He was on the show about a month

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month and a half ago, and I really love his

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writing as well. Would you mind introducing yourself as well?

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Ian, Yeah, my.

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Name's Ian Rodgers. I've written some stuff, but I'm here

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tonight as a hardcore Jeffrey Thomas fan, so fraid about

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my stuff. I'm here to celebrate Punktown and all things

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Jeffrey Thomas because Jeffrey I've known since, especially his work

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from like the nineties when he was published in chat

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books and everything else. That's how I found them and

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just immediately fell in love with his work, what he

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was doing with Cathula mis those stories, and then his

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own Punk Town stuff, which was just basically like taking

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the Cathula misso those in dumping them in kind of

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like a Blade Runner esque setting, which was just absolutely

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my jam. And it was just a great pleasure to

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me that we became friends later on, and eventually I

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was able to contribute a story to Transmissions from Punktown,

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a collection where a lot of authors got to sort

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of play at his sandbox, which was a great pleasure

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and honor for me, and I just I love those stories.

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They've they've they've influenced me so much in my own

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Black Clan series, if not directly, then just how he

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writes them. In such a way that makes them so

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accessible to the casual reader while sort of rewarding the

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super fan who's going to catch all these references. So

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he's sort of been my uh, kind of like my

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mentor in that way, and just a real inspiration and

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just a really hell of a nice guy, so nice.

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Before before we get into Jeffrey Thomas, something interesting happened. Well,

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I was organizing all this in that we were talking

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about your book, and Jeffrey Thomas bought a copy and

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have you read it yet?

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Talk? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've finished recently. I very much

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enjoyed it.

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Sycamore, Sycamore.

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Yeah, yeah, that's that's the book we were talking about

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when Ian was on the show a month ago. Sycamore

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is really fun. Absolutely adored it.

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I can't wait for more.

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Well, thank you, it's coming. There's another one this year

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and possibly two more next year. I'm trying to I

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kind of want to be like the anti George R. Martin,

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where I'm not going to take ten years. Aren't the

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doorstoppers that his are? So I it's full respect to him,

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but I do want to sort of have a regular

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stream of books that we don't want to want to

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flood the market, but you want to have something regularly,

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so they also don't forget you as as you know,

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I'm sure as well as Jeff, you've sort of you

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kind of got at least remind people that you're alive

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out there. There's a lot of other books people can

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be reading.

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But your series screams for continuance.

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Absolutely.

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Yeah. Stop. You can't finish Sycamore and not want that

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next one.

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Well, thank you, thank you.

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It was.

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It was a difficult book to write because it's as

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you know, it sort of has to be a lot

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of different things at the same time. It has to

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sort of if there's only one book, it has to

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sort of stand on its own. I wanted to stand

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on its own anyway. I didn't want it to be

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full of all these cliffhangers and you'll have to write

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the second book to do this. I want people to

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sort of it. If they just enjoyed it, they enjoyed it.

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But if they want more, there's more. So it was

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That's why I keep saying. It was a book that

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had to do a lot of things at once. But

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at the end of the day, I just hope that

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people really got to get kick out of the story,

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so so thank you. That really means a lot.

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That's that's got to be a challenge writing a book

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that's in a series, but making it so that it

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can stand alone on its own as well well.

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And again, as I said, I was really taking I

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took a page, regardless of all my detective influences or

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the sort of paranorm foresiegeable stuff of like the X

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Files or even Twin Peaks. I was really in the

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back of my mind, like Jeff Thomas was my Yoda,

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going no, no, you can do it. This is how

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I did it. And all I did was I would

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go back and I was already reading that. I'm pretty

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sure I've read every single thing in the Punktown series,

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and I would just go back and reread it, and

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I'd just be like, oh, this is how he did that.

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I remember when I read the original Punktown collection and

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each story almost had an easter egg from the previous one.

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And I remember I emailed you about that, Jeff, and

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you said that I was one of the very few

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people who actually noticed that, whether it was a product

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thing or a character reference or a neighborhood reference, it

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was like these little stepping stones throughout the entire collection,

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and I just I love stuff like that. It's like

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it's like you're sharing a secret with the writer. You know,

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you're both sharing the same world and just so accessible

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and so much one and just so original, you know.

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I just like you could say that it's this meets that,

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but until you actually read it and discover, like how

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wonderful the world is. I mean, it's one of those

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series where I just keep telling people it's one I

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recommend most and when I say, well, which which should

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I start with, I'm like, it doesn't matter, whichever one

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you can find by that and start from there. And

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that's that's part of the jewel of the series, in

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my opinion, one of.

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The many I appreciated in the Back of Sycamore where

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you had said that that you had mentioned punk Down

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and how the Punkdown stories can all be read individually.

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You don't need to read another one to understand this one.

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You can just read one. You can read them all

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and and and I like that approach a lot. And

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because I get intimidated myself with series. Sometimes something will

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sound very interesting and then I'll read that it's the

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first and a trilogy something and I'll get kind of

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put off that I feel obligated if I'm going to

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have to follow this plot line, and I would rather

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read like like the Felix RN the black Lands books,

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where I can read them out of sequence. I can

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read all of them or one of them or whatever,

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and then then you feel the less pressured or less

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you know, you know you can go you can read that,

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you can go away something else. And so that's when

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I wanted to provide with people so they didn't feel

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intimidated at all with my with my Pumptown stories.

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Well, that was definitely something that I had a lot

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of conversations with with Dan Franklin at Cemetery Dance, who's

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a big fan of the series and obviously is really

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invested in it, and we both agreed because it was

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one of the things that I said that there's no

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numbers on these books. This isn't book one, this isn't

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Book two. I want people to be able to sort

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of pay. Like the next book in the series, it's

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a reprint of Supernatural Tales that came out like ten

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years ago, which was a collection of the very early

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Felix frind Chat books with a story that actually takes

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place right after the end of Sycamore. So Supernatural Tales

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is being reprinted this year with a new cover the

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same stories. But it's kind of cool because it's actually

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a prequel and a sequel to Sycamore. So I think

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of it as book zero. Actually it's not really book two.

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Book two will becoming next yeous to what I'm writing

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right now, and it's really picking up from the storylines

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of Sycamore, and there are there are character arcs, and

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there are story arcs. But again, you could still read

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book two on its own if that's the first one

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that you pick up, and if you go back to Sycamore,

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you're not really going to be missing out on anything.

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So it's, uh, it's like with your stuff, Jeff, like

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you've had you've had a few Recraine characters in Punktown,

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but you don't need to have read say Red Cells,

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and then go to the other stories with your shape

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shifting detective character and be like, oh, I read these

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out of order. I'm I'm screwed. This is you know,

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I don't know, You're just I was happy to like

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bumping into a friend on the street and it's like, oh,

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so like even the references that I caught in The

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New God. It's been a little while thaying I'm trying

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to I was trying to remember what the last Punktown

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book you did before the New God. And I'm not

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sure if it was Red Cells or not, but I

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caught stuff like the color strain. I caught obviously, the neighborhoods.

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I'm very familiar with the uh the the geography of

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punktown itself. But again, it was really it was like

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coming home in a way and seeing your favorite hangouts

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and meeting some of your favorite people. It was so fun.

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You know.

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Before we go on, I just want to thank you

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Ian because you sent me these books. Oh and uh,

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that's that's really awesome. And uh, yeah, I've read that.

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You know.

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One thing I love about having a channel like this

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is that you you learn about new authors all the time.

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And sometimes it's like, how did I not find this

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person earlier?

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You know what I mean? Like, but uh, I.

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Can't do and I can't do that for jeff I

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wish I could have the camera here, but my my

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Jeffrey Thomashalk is right there. And it's still because I've

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got all the standards, I've got a lot of limited editions,

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and I even have the super rare Fall of Haites,

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the the Little the Sculpture of the Gun, the the

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Gun and everything. I even have one of those. So

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it's like and I've even got a copy of the

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super rare oh is it the dream the dream Catchers

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and the dream Masters. You're you're Freddy Krueger Books, dream Dealers.

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You can't fight anywhere. So it was like that was

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I don't remember how I found it, but.

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Yeah, those go for Those go for a lot these

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days if they could find them.

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The funny thing with me is the only physical book

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of yours I own, Jeffrey. Everything is is like like

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I have a lot of your books on ebook because

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I'm a big e reader, because well, books have like

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really overtaken my home. But I do have one of yours,

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and it's one that you co wrote with your old

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friend W. H.

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Pugmyer Willhelm. Yes, I have encounters with the colin.

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It's funny that you that you mentioned that book, because

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that's the latest thing that I've been working on is

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Dark Regent's Press has has gone out of business and

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so my books with them have kind of are kind

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of orphaned. And I recently re released one myself called

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Nocturnal Admissions, and I brought that out myself. But then

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I thought, well, what am I going to do with

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my up conference stories? I don't have Willem unfortunately passed

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away in twenty nineteen, and I don't have the rights

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to his work. His literary executor is St. Josh and

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so I hope somehow his stories can stay in print.

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The only control I have is over my own stories.

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And Willim and I wrote that book together. We each

233
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wrote six stories about the same character. Was initially William's

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idea for this character, and he asked me to collaborate

235
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with him because he wanted the character as an artist.

236
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And Willem knew that I was an artist and wanted

237
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to bring that to the character. So he wrote six stories,

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and I wrote six stories about this character enough coffin

239
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and so, as I say, I only have control over

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my own so and I wanted to keep them in print,

241
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so I was gonna republish them myself. But then I

242
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offered the story the collection of Just My Stories to

243
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Weird House Press and Joe Moray He's very excited. He

244
00:11:48.919 --> 00:11:51.559
was very excited about it, and I had two other

245
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short stories that weren't in that book, but they mentioned

246
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kind of you know, confidences a side character, so I

247
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put them in there, and then I just wrote a

248
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forty thousand word novella to flesh the book out even further.

249
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It's the first story I've written about that character for

250
00:12:09.399 --> 00:12:12.279
many years now. The original book came out, I think

251
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in twenty twelve, so it was fun to revisit that character.

252
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I read all my you know, Coffin stories over again,

253
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I read Willielms's stories over again, just to get into

254
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that headspace again. So I just turned that book over

255
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to Joe Morey, and I'm certain he's going to want it,

256
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I know, Joe.

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Awesome.

258
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And so that was the most recent thing I worked

259
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on was kind of a I'm calling it the return

260
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if You're not Coffin because it's you know, it's not

261
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quite the same as that as that book, but it's

262
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my contributions and more.

263
00:12:47.799 --> 00:12:51.360
Yeah, awesome. I've noticed.

264
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And one thing I admire about you is not too

265
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many people do this, but the books of yours that

266
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have gone out of print, you have been re releasing.

267
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How is that.

268
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Experience been and what what has been like? Maybe the

269
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biggest challenge of doing that.

270
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It's uh, I'm I'm so grateful that I can do that.

271
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You know, when they go out of print, I like,

272
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I want to keep them. I want to keep them

273
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in print. I want people to to be able to

274
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still get them. And and there hasn't been a whole

275
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lot of a challenge because what I I format them

276
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myself and I acquire new artwork for the covers and

277
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so forth, and they don't they definitely don't generate a

278
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lot of income. But it's just nice to know that

279
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they're still out there if people want to seek them out.

280
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And even a couple of my of my books that

281
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had the most readership, that had the greatest exposure, like

282
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my novels Dead Stock and Blue War, when those went

283
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out of print, I was very grateful that I could

284
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keep them keep them going. So it's just, uh, I

285
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think it's it's valuable that you can that you could

286
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do that book us and have to go vanish and

287
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be inaccessible anymore.

288
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Yeah, And like I was saying, a lot of authors

289
00:14:07.519 --> 00:14:10.879
seem to not do that despite that option being there.

290
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I think it's honestly, it's a good idea.

291
00:14:13.679 --> 00:14:15.840
It might still be maybe part of it is there's

292
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a kind of a stigma about self publishing, and there

293
00:14:18.519 --> 00:14:21.559
shouldn't be, but I think the stigma derives from the

294
00:14:21.600 --> 00:14:24.480
fact that there's a lot of bad stuff to get

295
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self published, and it's hard to differentiate between what has

296
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value and what doesn't.

297
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But well, and you're you're you're fairly established. So I

298
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feel like if you self publish something, and especially if

299
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it's something that you're just trying to keep in print,

300
00:14:36.399 --> 00:14:38.159
I don't I'm sure it's not even really viewed as

301
00:14:38.159 --> 00:14:40.720
a self published book. It's more like no one has

302
00:14:40.759 --> 00:14:43.559
no one really, no publisher has ownership because the publisher

303
00:14:43.600 --> 00:14:45.240
no longer has the rights, or the publisher is no

304
00:14:45.279 --> 00:14:47.840
longer in business, and you're just trying to make it available.

305
00:14:47.840 --> 00:14:50.360
So I think that's if anything, I think it's a

306
00:14:50.360 --> 00:14:52.720
service to your fans, right, And I will say like,

307
00:14:52.799 --> 00:14:54.679
especially with the care that you do it, you you

308
00:14:54.720 --> 00:14:57.600
do such a really good job. And I love what

309
00:14:57.600 --> 00:14:59.799
what Weird House is done with the new artwork for

310
00:15:00.039 --> 00:15:02.639
especially for the Hades series. I mean, all those books already,

311
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if there's a players like, oh, I got to buy

312
00:15:03.919 --> 00:15:07.600
them again because I think there was a bonus story

313
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and one of the mess is like I'll have to

314
00:15:09.279 --> 00:15:10.840
go and buy them again. But there, they're never going

315
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to have this, I'm pretty sure. Which is the Yeah,

316
00:15:14.440 --> 00:15:15.159
that's wonderful.

317
00:15:15.200 --> 00:15:18.399
That's a sculpture that was done by Frank Walls.

318
00:15:20.120 --> 00:15:20.440
Yeah.

319
00:15:20.679 --> 00:15:22.879
Yeah, he did a beautiful job. I love his artwork.

320
00:15:22.879 --> 00:15:25.279
He's his He's done the artwork on quite a few

321
00:15:25.279 --> 00:15:27.360
of my books by now. Like, like Ian just said

322
00:15:27.360 --> 00:15:30.600
that the new uh, the reprints of the Haiti series,

323
00:15:30.720 --> 00:15:34.000
Frank Walls did the covers for all of those and uh,

324
00:15:34.799 --> 00:15:37.960
and he'll be doing the cover for the new Enoch

325
00:15:38.000 --> 00:15:42.639
Coffin book. And that was the sentient gun from my

326
00:15:42.879 --> 00:15:44.399
novel The Fall of Hades.

327
00:15:44.840 --> 00:15:48.000
Yeah, so good too. And I guess you're just like

328
00:15:48.440 --> 00:15:51.759
I love I love the sprawl, like literally intiguarly a punktown,

329
00:15:52.120 --> 00:15:54.440
but I also love the there's almost like there almost

330
00:15:54.519 --> 00:15:56.240
is really a beginning, middle, and end to to the

331
00:15:56.279 --> 00:15:58.840
Hades story where it's just like this is your view

332
00:15:59.159 --> 00:16:02.240
on Heaven and Helen everything in between, making it almost

333
00:16:02.399 --> 00:16:05.679
very it's very meat and there's a metaphysical aspect to it.

334
00:16:05.759 --> 00:16:08.919
But you also have these people like Jesus and all

335
00:16:08.919 --> 00:16:12.200
these characters as as people as characters that are tangible

336
00:16:12.240 --> 00:16:16.000
in reality. Like it's when when I was describing I

337
00:16:16.080 --> 00:16:19.120
sold my own Angels and Demons story to help PS publishing.

338
00:16:19.120 --> 00:16:22.360
They published it last last summer. And the way that

339
00:16:22.399 --> 00:16:25.519
I described that that it's this this crime religious noir,

340
00:16:25.919 --> 00:16:27.519
and I was trying to say, like, well, what if

341
00:16:28.639 --> 00:16:32.039
uh what if, oh my god, his name escapes me

342
00:16:32.120 --> 00:16:36.919
l a confidential? Uh yeah, thank you? What if I

343
00:16:37.039 --> 00:16:40.320
had decided to rewrite the Bible as a crime epic?

344
00:16:40.519 --> 00:16:40.679
You know.

345
00:16:40.799 --> 00:16:43.840
So he's like, it's all the characters and they're just

346
00:16:43.919 --> 00:16:46.320
doing things, you know, like imagine you know, the Devil

347
00:16:46.360 --> 00:16:48.720
and his children, the Seven Deadly Sins were sort of

348
00:16:48.799 --> 00:16:52.080
like Ocean's Eleven, but they're demons, you know. So it's

349
00:16:52.320 --> 00:16:53.519
it was just trying to have fun with it but

350
00:16:53.639 --> 00:16:56.080
also being very like it's it's not even blasphemous, and

351
00:16:56.120 --> 00:16:58.519
actually keep in mind with what these people are according

352
00:16:58.559 --> 00:17:01.039
to the according to the Bible. But it was just

353
00:17:01.080 --> 00:17:03.320
something a way of sort of reapproaching this this material

354
00:17:03.519 --> 00:17:05.119
and having fun with it the same way that other

355
00:17:05.160 --> 00:17:09.440
people like Richard Cadre or anyone else who's written about

356
00:17:09.480 --> 00:17:12.440
you know, even good omens. You know that that game

357
00:17:12.519 --> 00:17:14.599
and Pratchett had done back in the nineties, just sort

358
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of having fun with with angels and demons while actually

359
00:17:17.079 --> 00:17:19.200
sort of even honoring the text but doing something different

360
00:17:19.240 --> 00:17:21.559
with it in a fantasy setting or noir or whatever.

361
00:17:21.680 --> 00:17:23.960
So what you did with the Haiti series was sort

362
00:17:23.960 --> 00:17:26.880
of your take on it, starting with I believe was

363
00:17:26.960 --> 00:17:29.119
Letters from Hades, and then I correct me if I'm wrong,

364
00:17:29.200 --> 00:17:32.839
Letters from Hades Beautiful Hell. And then there was the collection,

365
00:17:33.839 --> 00:17:35.799
and then there was a Fall of Hades. I think

366
00:17:35.839 --> 00:17:39.160
that that's that's correct, Yes, yes, but it tells a

367
00:17:39.160 --> 00:17:41.240
full story there, and and I just loved it. I

368
00:17:41.279 --> 00:17:43.319
was just immediately cooked because you've got different characters, it's

369
00:17:43.319 --> 00:17:45.720
not even following necessarily the same characters through all of it,

370
00:17:45.839 --> 00:17:49.599
and Letters from Hades is is told, and I think

371
00:17:49.720 --> 00:17:51.200
largely journal wonders. It is kind of like an a

372
00:17:51.200 --> 00:17:54.279
pistolary book, as I recall, right, yes exactly, and I

373
00:17:54.319 --> 00:17:56.200
just love it. It takes up this guy has died,

374
00:17:56.279 --> 00:17:59.279
he is in Hell, here's how hell works, here's sort

375
00:17:59.279 --> 00:18:02.920
of the hierarchy. And I was just hooked against another

376
00:18:02.960 --> 00:18:04.640
mythology where it was the same thing sort of with

377
00:18:04.680 --> 00:18:07.279
punk Town, where you sort of yeah, if I describe

378
00:18:07.279 --> 00:18:08.599
it to you, you're going to say, oh, it's just

379
00:18:08.680 --> 00:18:10.640
like this, It's like, well sort of, but you have

380
00:18:10.680 --> 00:18:12.240
to read it to realize that it's not like that

381
00:18:12.400 --> 00:18:14.480
at all. Just doing his own thing with this, and

382
00:18:14.480 --> 00:18:15.440
it's truly special.

383
00:18:16.440 --> 00:18:19.119
Thanks seeing that. That's kind of the tricky balance. Also

384
00:18:19.200 --> 00:18:21.240
with the Punkdown stories. It's like, if you look at

385
00:18:21.240 --> 00:18:27.960
punk Town, the superficially nothing stands out as being really revolutionary.

386
00:18:28.079 --> 00:18:34.160
You know, it's it's you know, aliens all kind of

387
00:18:34.440 --> 00:18:37.559
a melting pot of aliens and flying cars and futuristic

388
00:18:37.599 --> 00:18:42.240
cities and so forth. But it's it's it's when you

389
00:18:42.279 --> 00:18:45.000
get down to the surface level and start you know,

390
00:18:45.319 --> 00:18:49.200
that's when that hopefully it starts to feel a little

391
00:18:49.279 --> 00:18:53.720
have a little more more idiosyncratic, idiosyncratic character, a little

392
00:18:53.720 --> 00:18:56.599
bit more uniqueness. And that's like you said, with the

393
00:18:56.599 --> 00:19:00.759
Haiti stories, of course, you know, uh, hades, you hit hell,

394
00:19:00.880 --> 00:19:03.759
you've got demons in the damned and all that stuff.

395
00:19:03.799 --> 00:19:06.680
But then that you you get when you look closer,

396
00:19:06.720 --> 00:19:09.200
that you see the individual characteristics of the of the

397
00:19:09.279 --> 00:19:10.960
series and and and so forth.

398
00:19:11.359 --> 00:19:13.200
Well, and again that's I think as part of your

399
00:19:13.200 --> 00:19:15.319
strength as a writer is that you're not You're not

400
00:19:15.440 --> 00:19:18.440
obsessed over gadgets or setting. It all comes back to

401
00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:20.480
the characters and and for me, that's what always really

402
00:19:20.480 --> 00:19:22.519
stuck with with the stories. And I can even go

403
00:19:22.559 --> 00:19:23.759
back to one of the very first times I was

404
00:19:23.759 --> 00:19:27.079
reading the original Punk towns or collection, and I think

405
00:19:27.079 --> 00:19:29.119
that even there's even one story that deals with like

406
00:19:29.160 --> 00:19:31.160
a sorority house. I think was at the Sisters of

407
00:19:31.160 --> 00:19:34.839
No Mercy aroriy house on Punk Town. It was just

408
00:19:34.880 --> 00:19:37.680
in fun touts. It's like, this is you've got detective characters.

409
00:19:37.720 --> 00:19:43.000
I remember the the uh it was like a you

410
00:19:43.240 --> 00:19:44.839
union Dick, I think is what the story is called,

411
00:19:45.400 --> 00:19:47.519
like You're It's it's again what I'm trying to do

412
00:19:47.559 --> 00:19:49.400
with the Black Plans. So, yes, I'm telling a story

413
00:19:49.440 --> 00:19:51.720
with with Felix Rernd. I'm going to tell lots of

414
00:19:51.720 --> 00:19:55.319
stories about this Toronto based PI. But I've got other characters.

415
00:19:55.400 --> 00:19:57.039
I've got a short story that I'm working on right

416
00:19:57.079 --> 00:20:00.079
now that takes place with the commercial fishing and the

417
00:20:00.079 --> 00:20:01.680
street that bring me to triangle what that would be

418
00:20:01.759 --> 00:20:03.240
like just for the average show trying to make a

419
00:20:03.279 --> 00:20:05.440
living in a place where there's portals everywhere. Right, So

420
00:20:05.920 --> 00:20:10.359
it's it goes completely sideways. But for me, I've always

421
00:20:10.400 --> 00:20:12.839
thought The black Lands and I think your Punktown series

422
00:20:12.880 --> 00:20:17.440
is very, very similar. It's not the characters that you

423
00:20:17.480 --> 00:20:19.359
see over and over again, it's the world that's the

424
00:20:19.400 --> 00:20:22.720
real recurring character. You know, when when my my manager

425
00:20:22.759 --> 00:20:24.240
is trying, I was always trying to pitch black Lands

426
00:20:24.240 --> 00:20:25.640
stuff and the way that we described it, because you

427
00:20:26.279 --> 00:20:28.039
have to have to reduce it down to its simplest

428
00:20:28.079 --> 00:20:30.920
idea for studio executives. And if they don't read, they

429
00:20:31.000 --> 00:20:34.559
hire people, they actually hire people. That's all. That's how

430
00:20:34.839 --> 00:20:36.559
you know, dumbed down. You have to bring it Someime's

431
00:20:36.599 --> 00:20:38.240
not all the time. I'm not saying they're idiots, but

432
00:20:38.960 --> 00:20:42.640
time or they're just not No judgment, No judgment for

433
00:20:43.000 --> 00:20:45.200
the black Lands. I always say that it's a supernatural

434
00:20:45.279 --> 00:20:48.119
version of the Wire because everyone knows the Wire, everyone

435
00:20:48.119 --> 00:20:50.160
loves the Wire. And I say that this is a

436
00:20:50.200 --> 00:20:53.000
TV show that dealt with Each season was a different

437
00:20:53.000 --> 00:20:55.039
group of people it was. The first season was the cops,

438
00:20:55.079 --> 00:20:57.480
the second season with the dockworkers and the Stevadors. The

439
00:20:57.480 --> 00:21:00.440
third season was the school system, the teachers, and then

440
00:21:00.480 --> 00:21:02.440
you know the journalists. Like every season focused on a

441
00:21:02.440 --> 00:21:04.599
different group of people, but the real recurring character was

442
00:21:04.640 --> 00:21:07.119
the city of Baltimore. How does this city run? And

443
00:21:07.160 --> 00:21:08.880
some people would come and go. It's like usually the

444
00:21:08.880 --> 00:21:10.720
cop characters are the same from season to season, but

445
00:21:10.759 --> 00:21:12.920
not always. But that was why it was so fascinating,

446
00:21:12.920 --> 00:21:14.880
because I've never seen a show like that before where

447
00:21:15.039 --> 00:21:16.720
people will come and go you might never see them again.

448
00:21:16.720 --> 00:21:18.480
But it was really this is how the city is

449
00:21:18.480 --> 00:21:20.200
the recurring character, in the same way that I feel

450
00:21:20.400 --> 00:21:23.519
Punktown is the real recurring character. Whether you're reading Blue

451
00:21:23.559 --> 00:21:26.839
Planet or Everybody's Scream or a short story that you

452
00:21:26.839 --> 00:21:28.680
happen to, just pick up an anthology and you just

453
00:21:28.759 --> 00:21:31.839
see it. I always love when I read a short story,

454
00:21:31.839 --> 00:21:34.640
when I discover a punkdown story and a collection or

455
00:21:34.680 --> 00:21:38.079
an anthology and Jeff has got this way of mentioning

456
00:21:38.519 --> 00:21:40.640
it's Paxton. You know, some people will call punk Down.

457
00:21:40.799 --> 00:21:42.720
It's usually one line and it's like that's all he'll

458
00:21:42.720 --> 00:21:43.799
give you is this is like, no, no, I have

459
00:21:43.839 --> 00:21:45.279
a story to tell here. This is my job is

460
00:21:45.359 --> 00:21:47.559
to tell the story. You don't even need to know

461
00:21:47.599 --> 00:21:50.319
that there's twenty of these stories elsewhere. It's like, this

462
00:21:50.400 --> 00:21:52.559
is my job is to tell this story and if

463
00:21:52.599 --> 00:21:54.880
you like it, maybe you'll pick it up and find

464
00:21:54.880 --> 00:21:58.480
somewhere else. And again, I had a story and a

465
00:21:58.519 --> 00:22:01.640
tour Nightfire anthology called Scream from the Dark. Ellen dot

466
00:22:01.680 --> 00:22:05.160
Low bought this standalone black Land. Store's not even a

467
00:22:05.200 --> 00:22:07.640
Felix Ren story. It was just a regular standalone black

468
00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:09.680
Land story, and she liked it, and she put it

469
00:22:09.680 --> 00:22:11.319
at the very start of the book because she said

470
00:22:11.319 --> 00:22:13.079
that she wanted that story to be the one that

471
00:22:13.160 --> 00:22:15.640
introduces the collection, and she knew it was Blacklands, and

472
00:22:15.839 --> 00:22:18.079
there was never any Oh, I don't think people will

473
00:22:18.119 --> 00:22:19.720
get this. If it's part of a series, we will

474
00:22:19.720 --> 00:22:22.240
confuse people. She really believed in me, and she believed

475
00:22:22.240 --> 00:22:23.599
in the stories, and she knew what I was doing.

476
00:22:23.640 --> 00:22:25.640
And I think she even made a Punktown reference at

477
00:22:25.640 --> 00:22:28.960
one point, because I always correspond for quite a bit,

478
00:22:29.240 --> 00:22:31.519
and I think that she knew exactly what I was doing,

479
00:22:31.519 --> 00:22:33.079
because I mean, no one's no one's read more short

480
00:22:33.079 --> 00:22:36.079
stories than Ellen Dotlow, So I think that she really

481
00:22:36.079 --> 00:22:38.160
got it. And I was like, yeah, I mean everything

482
00:22:38.200 --> 00:22:40.400
that I'm doing is because of Jeff and what he

483
00:22:41.119 --> 00:22:44.400
what do they say, like, you know, he walks? So

484
00:22:44.440 --> 00:22:45.960
that I can run with that. It's not the expression

485
00:22:45.960 --> 00:22:49.279
that people say, you know, So that's that I'm running.

486
00:22:49.319 --> 00:22:51.200
My stories are not nearly as successful as just but

487
00:22:51.440 --> 00:22:53.039
what I'm trying, and I wouldn't be doing it much.

488
00:22:53.039 --> 00:22:55.240
So that's having the fun that I'm having with it

489
00:22:55.640 --> 00:22:58.759
if it wasn't looking back on your work Jet and

490
00:22:58.799 --> 00:23:00.160
the fact that you're still doing it. I was so

491
00:23:00.240 --> 00:23:02.599
excited when when the new God was announced and it

492
00:23:02.640 --> 00:23:05.400
was like, oh wow, I got I'm gonna goggle this stuff.

493
00:23:05.519 --> 00:23:06.960
And then and it was Jason's idea to say, we

494
00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:09.079
should read it together. See if we can get Jeff

495
00:23:09.119 --> 00:23:10.839
on this podcast and talk about the book.

496
00:23:11.160 --> 00:23:16.480
Yeah, And it was our conversation Ian because I heard

497
00:23:16.519 --> 00:23:19.640
you on another podcast or YouTube channel, I can't remember what,

498
00:23:19.799 --> 00:23:22.400
and you were talking a lot about Jeffrey Thomas, and

499
00:23:22.440 --> 00:23:26.279
then it came up again in our discussion, and then

500
00:23:26.319 --> 00:23:30.440
we were talking more about Jeffrey Thomas after after the

501
00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:32.599
show was over, and I was like, you know, a

502
00:23:32.640 --> 00:23:34.599
couple of days later, I just kind of clicked, you know,

503
00:23:34.759 --> 00:23:36.880
why don't we get like, he just released this new

504
00:23:36.880 --> 00:23:39.440
book I've been wanting to read because it's a punk

505
00:23:39.440 --> 00:23:41.240
doown novel. Why don't I just get us all together

506
00:23:41.440 --> 00:23:42.920
and we'll chat about the New God.

507
00:23:43.839 --> 00:23:45.960
It was it was just those things came together. I

508
00:23:45.960 --> 00:23:47.559
already had it was sitting on my pile, and of

509
00:23:47.599 --> 00:23:49.039
course I'm a slow reader, but I knew I was

510
00:23:49.039 --> 00:23:50.720
going to get to it sooner than the other stuff.

511
00:23:50.920 --> 00:23:52.359
But it was you that made me really want to

512
00:23:52.359 --> 00:23:53.960
get to it at a time. And I don't know

513
00:23:54.000 --> 00:23:55.680
about you guys. So let's face it, this year has

514
00:23:55.720 --> 00:23:57.960
not started off really great for a lot of people. Yeah, no,

515
00:23:59.480 --> 00:24:02.240
personally and professionally and just everything that's going on. It's

516
00:24:02.279 --> 00:24:04.359
just there's there's been a lot. So being able to

517
00:24:05.160 --> 00:24:07.880
read a book like like Jeff's The New God was

518
00:24:07.960 --> 00:24:09.960
something was like it's what I said before. It was

519
00:24:10.079 --> 00:24:11.680
it was like meeting old friends again and it was

520
00:24:11.720 --> 00:24:13.720
just like, oh, this is it was a comfort reading, right.

521
00:24:13.720 --> 00:24:14.880
It was just like even though it was a book

522
00:24:14.880 --> 00:24:16.480
I'd never read before, it wasn't the book I'd gone

523
00:24:16.519 --> 00:24:18.240
back to and I'm going to reread, like say The

524
00:24:18.240 --> 00:24:20.480
Stand for the fiftieth time. This was a new book

525
00:24:20.480 --> 00:24:22.759
by someone I really respected. In a world that I'm

526
00:24:22.799 --> 00:24:24.720
strumia with. It was like, Oh, this is exactly the

527
00:24:24.720 --> 00:24:27.000
book I need to read right now, So being able

528
00:24:27.000 --> 00:24:29.880
to talk to both of you guys about it, it's

529
00:24:30.079 --> 00:24:31.720
this is definitely one of the highlights of the year

530
00:24:31.759 --> 00:24:32.519
for me right now.

531
00:24:32.799 --> 00:24:35.839
And I appreciate all your kind words.

532
00:24:35.839 --> 00:24:38.799
Again, before we go on with The New God, can

533
00:24:39.240 --> 00:24:42.799
we just so people know, I don't know if a

534
00:24:42.799 --> 00:24:46.640
lot of my audience know Jeffrey Thomas or punk Town.

535
00:24:46.759 --> 00:24:49.480
So Jeffrey, could you tell us a little bit about

536
00:24:49.519 --> 00:24:52.799
what punk punk Town is and how it relates to

537
00:24:53.000 --> 00:24:55.359
your your latest novel, The New God.

538
00:24:55.720 --> 00:24:59.799
Sure, punk Town. I've been writing about punk Town since

539
00:24:59.880 --> 00:25:03.640
I eighteen eighty. It was It wasn't until you know,

540
00:25:03.720 --> 00:25:05.960
a good many years later that I started publishing in

541
00:25:06.039 --> 00:25:08.680
the small press some Punktown work. But I've been been

542
00:25:08.680 --> 00:25:13.359
writing about it consistently, consistently since nineteen eighty. And how

543
00:25:13.400 --> 00:25:20.440
I originally saw it and was as a a massive

544
00:25:20.440 --> 00:25:24.599
city on another planet that is populated. It has their

545
00:25:24.799 --> 00:25:29.240
indigenous people, but it's been it's largely populated by people

546
00:25:29.359 --> 00:25:33.119
Earth colonists, but also a melting pot for aliens from

547
00:25:33.240 --> 00:25:38.640
from from everywhere. What I took my inspiration from people,

548
00:25:39.839 --> 00:25:41.599
and I don't fault them for it, but they people

549
00:25:41.680 --> 00:25:45.880
frequently compare punk down to Blade Runner, but since I've

550
00:25:45.920 --> 00:25:48.519
been writing about since nineteen eighty, it was several years

551
00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:52.720
before Blade Runner. But I admit that I took a

552
00:25:52.759 --> 00:25:56.640
lot of inspiration from the mass Isley Spaceport in Star Wars.

553
00:25:57.000 --> 00:25:58.799
I loved that was my favorite part of Star Wars.

554
00:25:58.839 --> 00:26:01.960
And I saw all these aliens and commingling and everything

555
00:26:02.000 --> 00:26:07.839
and this you know, kind of in crime written little town,

556
00:26:08.279 --> 00:26:10.240
and I thought I'd like to write about something like that,

557
00:26:10.279 --> 00:26:13.480
but on a larger scale, like a whole gigantic city

558
00:26:13.480 --> 00:26:16.599
of Megalopolis and so that, and so I rang with

559
00:26:16.640 --> 00:26:21.200
that idea. And but right from the start, I knew

560
00:26:21.240 --> 00:26:24.039
that I didn't want to just write about the same characters.

561
00:26:26.119 --> 00:26:29.440
And I guess a way to this kind of compare

562
00:26:29.480 --> 00:26:31.680
it would be to say, like, uh, you know, in

563
00:26:32.519 --> 00:26:35.759
Rear Window, the entire movie takes place from Jimmy Stewart's

564
00:26:35.759 --> 00:26:38.480
point of view, and he's looking at that apartment building

565
00:26:38.559 --> 00:26:42.119
crossed the way, and he just looks at what's going

566
00:26:42.119 --> 00:26:43.960
on in this one and what's going on in that one,

567
00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:46.240
And everyone is telling a different story, and some stories

568
00:26:46.240 --> 00:26:48.880
are funny and some are tragic, and and throughout the

569
00:26:48.920 --> 00:26:53.480
movie you're seeing these different stories play out, and that's

570
00:26:53.519 --> 00:26:56.200
kind of how it is the punk town. Punktown is

571
00:26:56.200 --> 00:26:58.519
is you can you can watch what's going on in

572
00:26:58.519 --> 00:27:00.319
this window for a while, and then what's going on

573
00:27:00.440 --> 00:27:03.799
this window, and and there are all these individual stories

574
00:27:03.799 --> 00:27:06.720
and they they're they're united by the fact that they're

575
00:27:06.720 --> 00:27:10.000
all taking place in Punkdown, as in that in their window,

576
00:27:10.240 --> 00:27:12.119
they're all taking place in the same building, but the

577
00:27:12.160 --> 00:27:15.359
people aren't necessarily interacting with each other. And so that's

578
00:27:15.440 --> 00:27:19.079
kind of my has been consistently my my approach throughout

579
00:27:20.359 --> 00:27:24.680
and and the New God is the latest in that series.

580
00:27:25.039 --> 00:27:28.519
And they don't all not all Punkdown stories have a

581
00:27:28.559 --> 00:27:34.680
horrific component what they often do, they usually but I

582
00:27:34.799 --> 00:27:38.079
like the freedom with Punkdown that they can go all

583
00:27:38.279 --> 00:27:40.240
they can be. One could be like a detective story,

584
00:27:40.720 --> 00:27:43.720
one can be uh have be more like a black comedy.

585
00:27:45.039 --> 00:27:48.960
And I frequently have brought in love crafty and kind

586
00:27:48.960 --> 00:27:54.480
of elements or or feeling. But I that by by

587
00:27:54.480 --> 00:27:58.400
no means is that a consistent component in the Punkdown

588
00:27:58.440 --> 00:28:01.519
stories either, although in the New Odd it's to the

589
00:28:01.559 --> 00:28:05.640
four more so than in probably any of the other stories.

590
00:28:05.920 --> 00:28:10.240
Yeah, did you confirm more deny that the title Punktown

591
00:28:10.440 --> 00:28:12.160
comes from funky Town.

592
00:28:14.480 --> 00:28:17.759
The song. Yeah, in nineteen eighty I was working in

593
00:28:17.799 --> 00:28:20.440
a shoe company and it was very noisy, all the

594
00:28:20.480 --> 00:28:24.279
machines and everything in radios, and that that song came

595
00:28:24.279 --> 00:28:27.160
out around that time, Lips and was it Lips Incorporated?

596
00:28:27.240 --> 00:28:31.079
Funky Town is and I would hear that, and because

597
00:28:31.119 --> 00:28:33.319
it was the era of punk rock, I thought they

598
00:28:33.319 --> 00:28:37.039
were saying, take me down the punk town, and so

599
00:28:37.039 --> 00:28:38.759
that got stuck in my head, punkdown. And so even

600
00:28:38.799 --> 00:28:41.359
when I found out it was Funky Town, I had

601
00:28:41.400 --> 00:28:44.400
Punkdown stuck in my head, and I told that I

602
00:28:44.799 --> 00:28:47.920
one time I found the website for Lips Incorporated and

603
00:28:47.960 --> 00:28:51.160
I and you could leave stories about how you encountered

604
00:28:51.160 --> 00:28:53.440
their music and whatever, and I wrote that little story

605
00:28:53.440 --> 00:28:56.240
about how I wrote series of stories called punk Town

606
00:28:56.319 --> 00:28:59.559
based because I was inspired by your song funky Town.

607
00:29:00.079 --> 00:29:02.400
And they sent me a Funky Town T shirt.

608
00:29:02.720 --> 00:29:03.000
Nice.

609
00:29:04.839 --> 00:29:09.240
That's awesome. Yeah, that's great.

610
00:29:09.559 --> 00:29:12.480
Yeah, what what was the very first thing?

611
00:29:12.599 --> 00:29:14.880
Like where did punk punk Down come? What did it

612
00:29:14.920 --> 00:29:15.680
come from? That song?

613
00:29:15.839 --> 00:29:18.039
Or that was where the title came from?

614
00:29:18.160 --> 00:29:21.599
Yeah, like the stories and the idea of it being

615
00:29:21.640 --> 00:29:23.160
like on a colonized planet.

616
00:29:23.519 --> 00:29:25.119
It's just I don't know.

617
00:29:25.160 --> 00:29:28.440
I think it's just it's I think it's just kind

618
00:29:28.440 --> 00:29:32.079
of a composite of all my influences growing up, but

619
00:29:32.400 --> 00:29:35.680
you know, loving like science fiction like Star Star Trek

620
00:29:36.160 --> 00:29:41.920
and uh, but also living horror like Arter Limits and and.

621
00:29:40.720 --> 00:29:43.400
And just all these influences, and I just felt like

622
00:29:43.640 --> 00:29:45.920
a place where I could mash all that together. Plus

623
00:29:46.079 --> 00:29:49.720
a social commentary is a it seems like it's a

624
00:29:49.720 --> 00:29:51.640
good canvas for that as well.

625
00:29:52.920 --> 00:29:55.240
Yeah, I think that was what I was going to say.

626
00:29:55.519 --> 00:29:57.359
Especially when I was reading Knew God. It was like

627
00:29:57.359 --> 00:30:00.559
a reminder that I mean, obviously I love the mashup

628
00:30:00.559 --> 00:30:03.440
of sort of cosmic menace with science fiction, but what

629
00:30:03.480 --> 00:30:06.519
I feel like isn't really remarked on enough is the

630
00:30:06.559 --> 00:30:09.200
way that you explore sort of the social and psychological

631
00:30:09.240 --> 00:30:10.920
aspects of the way that things take a toll on

632
00:30:11.000 --> 00:30:13.599
characters in the punk Town stories. And I thought right

633
00:30:13.640 --> 00:30:15.440
away I was reminded like, oh, this is one of

634
00:30:15.480 --> 00:30:19.319
these reasons why I really love Jeffrey's work. Is club

635
00:30:19.359 --> 00:30:22.000
feel you know, on the surfaces, this ordinary dance club

636
00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:24.359
with loud music and bright stroking lights, but the floor

637
00:30:24.480 --> 00:30:27.119
is made of this synthetic human skin, And when when

638
00:30:27.279 --> 00:30:29.559
the when the protagonists, when when con Rex goes to

639
00:30:29.640 --> 00:30:31.440
order a drink from a table computer, he's surprised to

640
00:30:31.480 --> 00:30:34.440
see that, instead of holograms and intangible control, panels is

641
00:30:34.480 --> 00:30:37.519
controlled by like hand moves, like like like knobs and

642
00:30:37.599 --> 00:30:39.759
you know, clunky buttons and everything. And for me, this

643
00:30:39.799 --> 00:30:41.359
is like a deliberate feature of the club that I

644
00:30:41.359 --> 00:30:44.759
saw in response to the growing psychological malaise of the

645
00:30:44.759 --> 00:30:48.039
citizens of Punktown who feel disconnected from physical reality due

646
00:30:48.119 --> 00:30:52.160
to the exposure of holograms and other intangible media. And

647
00:30:52.160 --> 00:30:53.680
it's just it's a small detail, but to me, it

648
00:30:53.759 --> 00:30:56.119
just really shows that that Jeff's just you know, that

649
00:30:56.119 --> 00:30:59.559
you're doing something on a whole other level here. Even

650
00:30:59.599 --> 00:31:01.640
the argument AI, you know, like there's there's an AI,

651
00:31:02.519 --> 00:31:05.160
large component of AI in this story. Without really spoiling

652
00:31:05.160 --> 00:31:06.559
too much, I don't want to talk too much about

653
00:31:06.640 --> 00:31:11.039
the details of the book, but it was just so

654
00:31:11.039 --> 00:31:13.720
so topical, so so on point too that it's just

655
00:31:14.039 --> 00:31:17.039
again it's uh, there's a there's a social satire, but

656
00:31:17.079 --> 00:31:21.079
there's also a very deeply felt humanity that I was like, wow,

657
00:31:21.119 --> 00:31:23.160
this this this really resonates to me, you know, just

658
00:31:23.240 --> 00:31:25.519
like it's been too long since they've been to punk Town.

659
00:31:25.559 --> 00:31:27.039
And of course I didn't want to hope and something

660
00:31:27.079 --> 00:31:28.400
I was going to ask you later on, But like

661
00:31:28.440 --> 00:31:31.160
I'm hoping that is this going to be sort of

662
00:31:31.200 --> 00:31:34.880
like a precursor to more, you know, punktown books? And

663
00:31:34.960 --> 00:31:37.119
are they going to come like sooner than the last one?

664
00:31:37.160 --> 00:31:39.079
I can't think. I think the last one was Red Cells,

665
00:31:39.240 --> 00:31:41.039
which was quite a few years ago, if I recalled,

666
00:31:41.079 --> 00:31:43.559
But again I'm wrong, But I mean may be hungry

667
00:31:43.559 --> 00:31:47.039
for more, you know, It's I'm selfish that way.

668
00:31:48.279 --> 00:31:50.839
Yeah, I don't. I don't actually I don't have any plans,

669
00:31:50.960 --> 00:31:53.960
but there's always it's there's always the possibility, you know.

670
00:31:54.839 --> 00:32:01.319
Uh where whereas I have planned not to write anymore

671
00:32:01.359 --> 00:32:03.680
Haiti stories, I just feel like I've done everything I

672
00:32:03.680 --> 00:32:05.440
can with that, it's a little it's a little bit more.

673
00:32:06.160 --> 00:32:09.279
I feel that trilogy that that has come out recently,

674
00:32:09.519 --> 00:32:13.079
the re released volumes from Weirdhouse Press, I think that's

675
00:32:13.119 --> 00:32:16.319
the I want to just keep it all in that

676
00:32:16.599 --> 00:32:19.640
in those three volumes where punk down to me, it's

677
00:32:19.680 --> 00:32:22.920
always it's a place I I know I can always

678
00:32:22.920 --> 00:32:24.640
come back to again. And and although I don't have

679
00:32:24.680 --> 00:32:28.599
any solid plans. I I wouldn't be surprised if I did.

680
00:32:30.160 --> 00:32:34.039
And I wanted to point out that the New God

681
00:32:35.200 --> 00:32:39.079
has kind of an interesting history. Some years ago, there

682
00:32:39.160 --> 00:32:44.559
was a kickstarter for a punk Town role playing game

683
00:32:45.839 --> 00:32:50.039
that some some people wanted to do. It was a

684
00:32:50.079 --> 00:32:52.359
guy named Mike Tresca was the one who really was

685
00:32:52.519 --> 00:32:55.839
kind of uh got that going, and uh, I don't

686
00:32:55.839 --> 00:32:58.000
play role playing games myself, so I'm sure I'll never

687
00:32:58.000 --> 00:33:01.720
play the pump Town again. I played Dunge Engine Dragons

688
00:33:01.720 --> 00:33:07.079
once in my life with a friend. So but they

689
00:33:07.119 --> 00:33:10.240
it was the kickstarter was successful and the Punktown role

690
00:33:10.240 --> 00:33:13.079
playing game came out. It's it's kind of obscure, but

691
00:33:13.079 --> 00:33:15.960
it's still out there. And this whole guide book was

692
00:33:15.960 --> 00:33:20.000
put together. It's like a punk Town encyclopedia. And so

693
00:33:20.039 --> 00:33:23.319
there were there were some game scenarios in that volume,

694
00:33:23.359 --> 00:33:25.799
and one of them was by Brian M. Salmons, a writer,

695
00:33:25.960 --> 00:33:28.200
a fellow writer, and he also has done a lot

696
00:33:28.240 --> 00:33:33.160
of anthologies singly and also collaborating with people like Glenn

697
00:33:33.279 --> 00:33:40.160
Owen Bears and so Brian Brian uh success. His scenario

698
00:33:40.440 --> 00:33:43.319
and that guide book was called Looking Long into the Abyss,

699
00:33:44.039 --> 00:33:46.559
and Brian came to me, and he suggested that we

700
00:33:47.160 --> 00:33:50.160
flesh that scenario out and write a novel, to collaborate

701
00:33:50.200 --> 00:33:52.880
on a novel together, and so I agreed to that,

702
00:33:53.359 --> 00:33:56.200
and we I wasn't sure how to. I typically don't

703
00:33:56.240 --> 00:33:59.359
really collaborate with people. My most successful collaboration was that

704
00:33:59.440 --> 00:34:01.839
one with W. Pugmier, but even then it was kind

705
00:34:01.839 --> 00:34:06.240
of stranger first finding the right approach to that because

706
00:34:06.240 --> 00:34:10.800
I'm not prone to collaboration. So we finally decided that

707
00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:14.039
I would write the first half of the novel, The

708
00:34:14.119 --> 00:34:15.960
New God. At the time, it didn't have a title

709
00:34:16.679 --> 00:34:23.760
based on Brian's scenario based on Punk Town. So I

710
00:34:23.800 --> 00:34:28.679
wrote my first half, and then for various reasons, uh,

711
00:34:29.239 --> 00:34:33.480
various personal reasons and so forth, Brian wasn't wasn't able

712
00:34:33.519 --> 00:34:35.719
to write the second half, and so I asked for

713
00:34:35.800 --> 00:34:39.280
his blessings to complete it myself, and he told me

714
00:34:39.280 --> 00:34:44.400
to go for it, and uh, but I didn't get

715
00:34:44.400 --> 00:34:50.480
to it right away, And eventually Joe Moriy of Weirdhouse

716
00:34:50.480 --> 00:34:52.280
Press asked me if I if I could give him

717
00:34:52.320 --> 00:34:54.079
some kind of a love craft in book. He thought

718
00:34:54.119 --> 00:34:57.239
that would be good, and and then I thought of

719
00:34:57.280 --> 00:34:59.639
The New God, and I thought instead of writing something new,

720
00:34:59.679 --> 00:35:03.840
I think I'm going to finally complete that. And by

721
00:35:03.880 --> 00:35:06.079
the time I got back to it and completed it,

722
00:35:06.119 --> 00:35:08.000
a span of I can't remember for it was nine

723
00:35:08.079 --> 00:35:11.679
or ten years it passed. So even though I agree

724
00:35:11.719 --> 00:35:15.440
it seems very topical because AI has a lot to

725
00:35:15.440 --> 00:35:19.559
do with it that it's based on that Brian scenario,

726
00:35:20.119 --> 00:35:27.400
the basic plot set up, and so I have to

727
00:35:27.440 --> 00:35:31.599
credit Brian for that. He was he hit a lot

728
00:35:31.599 --> 00:35:36.559
of force, I guess about because and another funny thing

729
00:35:36.679 --> 00:35:40.559
about this is, you know, I like to cast actors

730
00:35:41.760 --> 00:35:43.559
in roles so I can have some kind of a

731
00:35:43.559 --> 00:35:46.519
mental picture what the character might look like, and I

732
00:35:46.599 --> 00:35:49.840
might not just for my own benefit. And so I

733
00:35:49.880 --> 00:35:53.800
saw the And this is funny because in your in

734
00:35:53.840 --> 00:35:56.719
some interview that you did, you said you saw Max

735
00:35:56.760 --> 00:35:59.079
Wren as possibly being Ryan Goslin.

736
00:35:59.400 --> 00:36:01.000
Yes, I did. I was literally just thinking of that

737
00:36:01.079 --> 00:36:02.480
right now. It's just like, he's not He's not a

738
00:36:02.480 --> 00:36:04.119
tough guy, because anyone anyone who thinks he's a tough

739
00:36:04.119 --> 00:36:06.880
guy obviously hasn't read the stories that yeah, get ass

740
00:36:06.920 --> 00:36:09.079
kicked more than than than he probably gets. You know,

741
00:36:09.440 --> 00:36:11.079
he's definitely like it was when when when we were

742
00:36:11.079 --> 00:36:13.760
casting the audio person when Spotify to the audio book

743
00:36:14.199 --> 00:36:15.760
they were. They were asking me for notes of who

744
00:36:15.760 --> 00:36:18.440
they should get because they let me audition Narraiders and

745
00:36:18.480 --> 00:36:21.639
one guy was doing like a Humphrey Barget Humphrey Bogart impersonation,

746
00:36:21.679 --> 00:36:23.840
which was like, no, that's absolutely not And I said,

747
00:36:23.920 --> 00:36:25.320
and they said, well, can you tell us why? And

748
00:36:25.320 --> 00:36:27.840
I said, well, Felix is the anti PI and they

749
00:36:27.840 --> 00:36:29.599
said that's perfect. So they went out and they picked

750
00:36:29.599 --> 00:36:32.039
someone who's really great. And that's why I figured. That's

751
00:36:32.039 --> 00:36:35.519
why I thought of of Ryan Gosling was because you

752
00:36:35.559 --> 00:36:36.960
don't look at him and see that he's this big,

753
00:36:37.000 --> 00:36:37.360
tough guy.

754
00:36:37.360 --> 00:36:37.519
I was.

755
00:36:37.559 --> 00:36:39.800
I was actually thinking of him and Blade Runner twenty

756
00:36:39.800 --> 00:36:41.400
forty nine because of course he's got the coat. He

757
00:36:41.440 --> 00:36:43.400
looks for a PI. You know, he's a cop. And

758
00:36:43.440 --> 00:36:45.559
I was thinking, oh, I was already picturing him, But like,

759
00:36:45.599 --> 00:36:48.599
that's that's Felix. That to me is like he can

760
00:36:48.639 --> 00:36:50.159
sort of take care of himself. He's not going to

761
00:36:50.239 --> 00:36:53.159
take on five guys. But even if he was a

762
00:36:53.159 --> 00:36:54.679
fair you wouldn't look at him and see that about it.

763
00:36:54.679 --> 00:36:56.320
He's a very unassuming that way, you know.

764
00:36:56.400 --> 00:36:58.360
Right, He's not like a Nile Swartzer naked or something

765
00:36:59.159 --> 00:37:04.960
figure side. Ironically, I pictured Brian Gosling as the protagonist.

766
00:37:05.039 --> 00:37:06.599
Oh, mad God, you know that.

767
00:37:06.599 --> 00:37:08.559
That's incredible that you say that, because it was one

768
00:37:08.599 --> 00:37:12.039
of my questions. You you go into a description of

769
00:37:12.039 --> 00:37:16.800
what Colin Rex, what he looks like, and I was like, God, damn,

770
00:37:16.840 --> 00:37:20.440
that's Ryan Gosling. Oh my God, And so I couldn't

771
00:37:20.440 --> 00:37:22.079
help but think of Brian Gosling through.

772
00:37:22.239 --> 00:37:22.360
Well.

773
00:37:22.360 --> 00:37:25.079
That's why when I saw Blade Run at twenty forty nine,

774
00:37:25.760 --> 00:37:28.360
it was like, Oh, for God's sake, because not only that,

775
00:37:28.400 --> 00:37:33.239
but in the New God his love interest is an Ais,

776
00:37:33.280 --> 00:37:37.480
like an ai ghost of a lover. And I wrote again,

777
00:37:37.639 --> 00:37:40.800
I wrote that first half of the book nine or

778
00:37:40.800 --> 00:37:43.559
ten years ago, so it was before Blade Runner twenty

779
00:37:43.599 --> 00:37:46.760
forty nine, right, So I thought, you said, I change this,

780
00:37:46.800 --> 00:37:47.519
and I thought, just.

781
00:37:47.599 --> 00:37:50.119
Now, there's all these there's those movies like that. There's

782
00:37:50.119 --> 00:37:53.360
there's just as many movie crossovers as there are story crossovers.

783
00:37:53.360 --> 00:37:55.960
I'll tell you a funny story. JASONVI and Jeffrey here

784
00:37:56.039 --> 00:37:57.719
we just talk to before we would adver really have

785
00:37:57.760 --> 00:38:00.840
the same titles for stories aready called out of the Blue,

786
00:38:00.840 --> 00:38:02.840
he's got a story called out of the Blue, and

787
00:38:02.880 --> 00:38:04.559
like there's all kinds of stuff. So it's funny that

788
00:38:04.599 --> 00:38:07.000
you said, because you actually, when you're just describing Felix Wren,

789
00:38:07.079 --> 00:38:11.840
you actually said Max Wren. I wouldn't want to correct you. No, no, no,

790
00:38:11.880 --> 00:38:15.320
actually know it's fine because I know the reason I

791
00:38:15.440 --> 00:38:18.079
to name it, Like the very first Black Man story

792
00:38:18.280 --> 00:38:20.960
is temporary Monsters. It's full of movie east because I'm

793
00:38:20.960 --> 00:38:24.599
a movie jounk yea, I love movie trivia, and Max Rent,

794
00:38:24.840 --> 00:38:28.320
I call it Max Felix. The name comes from uh

795
00:38:28.559 --> 00:38:31.239
Cronenberg and the character from Video Drome, which is my

796
00:38:31.360 --> 00:38:35.119
very favorite Cronenberg. The character in that movie is named

797
00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:39.480
Max Wren, and Max Wren comes from David Cronenberg is

798
00:38:39.480 --> 00:38:42.079
a big car guy. He likes cars, he likes motorcycles.

799
00:38:42.679 --> 00:38:45.800
A ren Max is a German motorcycle that he loves.

800
00:38:46.159 --> 00:38:48.679
So he had this He's had this motorcycle called a

801
00:38:48.719 --> 00:38:50.360
Ren Max, and so he just took the name and

802
00:38:50.400 --> 00:38:52.360
flipped it and said, well, I'm gonna call my character

803
00:38:52.360 --> 00:38:55.920
in Videodrome Max Wren. So I took Felix Wren just

804
00:38:55.960 --> 00:38:58.679
because Felix was actually the name one of my favorite

805
00:38:58.760 --> 00:39:02.840
characters from John Stakeley's novels Vampires and Armor. He only

806
00:39:02.880 --> 00:39:04.920
wrote two books before he died, and they were fantastic.

807
00:39:05.519 --> 00:39:08.159
So and both books had a character named Felix, no

808
00:39:08.239 --> 00:39:12.639
last name, and both books went. One is a vampires

809
00:39:12.679 --> 00:39:16.639
working for sorry vampire Hunters sanctioned by the Vatican, and

810
00:39:16.880 --> 00:39:21.760
Armor is basically Starship Troopers. It's it's it's military science fiction,

811
00:39:21.800 --> 00:39:24.199
so it couldn't be further apart. But the books have

812
00:39:24.280 --> 00:39:27.199
both got this little like not even a warning, but

813
00:39:27.239 --> 00:39:29.960
a little note on the copyright page. This Felix is

814
00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:32.840
no other Felix. This jack Crow is no other jack

815
00:39:32.840 --> 00:39:34.840
Crow because there's also a character named jack Crow in

816
00:39:34.880 --> 00:39:37.199
both books and for whatever reason, the actor maybe he

817
00:39:37.239 --> 00:39:39.679
had friends with that name. But both books have a

818
00:39:39.719 --> 00:39:42.440
Felix and a jack Crow. So my Felix I took

819
00:39:42.480 --> 00:39:44.800
from those books because I love those books. The Wren

820
00:39:44.880 --> 00:39:47.400
came from Max Wren from Video Drome. So when you

821
00:39:47.440 --> 00:39:49.679
said Max red is like I didn't, I didn't, As

822
00:39:49.760 --> 00:39:51.159
is like, well, I know that I know that Jeffrey

823
00:39:51.239 --> 00:39:55.880
is a Universe fan too, so that's probably subconsciously I'm sending.

824
00:39:55.519 --> 00:39:58.840
That to Oh my god, funny, how you and I

825
00:39:58.920 --> 00:40:01.440
kind of are where we we we both have this

826
00:40:01.880 --> 00:40:05.599
like a story dead Stock right out of the blue,

827
00:40:05.719 --> 00:40:14.400
and we definitely think of life because both casting Ryan Gosling.

828
00:40:11.920 --> 00:40:13.400
Right and some And the funny thing is like the

829
00:40:13.440 --> 00:40:16.199
stories are nothing alike. Like your dead Stock is a

830
00:40:16.320 --> 00:40:19.440
punktown novel, which is fantastic. My dead Stock is a

831
00:40:19.480 --> 00:40:21.559
weird Western So it's like they it's not even like

832
00:40:21.599 --> 00:40:25.119
the stories are are similar. They're just we're starting where

833
00:40:25.119 --> 00:40:27.719
we're obviously ticking up each other's wavelegs on some level.

834
00:40:28.840 --> 00:40:33.079
Yeah, well, honestly, there's nothing wrong with casting Ryan Gosling

835
00:40:33.159 --> 00:40:36.280
in your head as a character because he's like he's

836
00:40:36.440 --> 00:40:40.280
almost like, aside from being like that big muscular Arnold

837
00:40:40.320 --> 00:40:43.800
Sourz snigger guy that can kick everyone's ass, he I

838
00:40:43.800 --> 00:40:47.760
think he fits into the everyday sort of dude persona

839
00:40:47.840 --> 00:40:48.880
really well, well.

840
00:40:48.840 --> 00:40:51.239
They're much as much more interesting. I mean, I think

841
00:40:51.440 --> 00:40:53.320
no one, no one really wants that character. I think

842
00:40:53.440 --> 00:40:56.159
I think our flaws are the things that make us

843
00:40:56.199 --> 00:41:00.599
stand out right absolute. So I make feel looks funny,

844
00:41:00.599 --> 00:41:03.000
but I don't really make him trite. He's and there's

845
00:41:03.000 --> 00:41:04.800
a reason why he's funny. In my world, as you

846
00:41:04.840 --> 00:41:07.559
guys knows you've read Sycamore. He's very upfront that it's

847
00:41:07.559 --> 00:41:09.840
a defense mechanism. They live in a world it's very

848
00:41:09.920 --> 00:41:12.199
dark and depressing. He doesn't look at the news. He

849
00:41:12.320 --> 00:41:16.719
makes sometimes like really inappropriate joke. It's not not offensive jokes,

850
00:41:16.719 --> 00:41:20.960
but of the moment, because this is how he keeps from,

851
00:41:21.440 --> 00:41:23.639
you know, wanting to go home and split his wrists,

852
00:41:23.679 --> 00:41:25.760
or because this is something that's a problem in this world,

853
00:41:25.760 --> 00:41:28.320
like this is something palpable that's hanging over people's heads

854
00:41:28.719 --> 00:41:31.800
living with this reality. And this was something when when

855
00:41:31.800 --> 00:41:34.400
my manager has been trying to how can we successfully

856
00:41:34.400 --> 00:41:37.840
sell a Blacklands project? And I said, well, forget about

857
00:41:37.840 --> 00:41:40.480
the stories, forget about pitching any specific story or novel.

858
00:41:41.719 --> 00:41:43.719
Most of these guys, we've got families, have got children.

859
00:41:43.800 --> 00:41:45.960
Imagine your kid has a nightmare, they think there's a

860
00:41:45.960 --> 00:41:48.119
monster under the bed or in their closet. You're going

861
00:41:48.239 --> 00:41:51.079
up to make them feel better. We've all been in

862
00:41:51.079 --> 00:41:52.840
that situation. I have and I don't have kids, but

863
00:41:52.840 --> 00:41:55.519
they've been in that situation. Imagine we live in a

864
00:41:55.519 --> 00:41:58.239
world where you can't do that because monsters exist. What

865
00:41:58.280 --> 00:42:01.159
are you now telling your child what you want but

866
00:42:01.159 --> 00:42:03.320
they're going to learn about the black Lands in school eventually,

867
00:42:03.480 --> 00:42:05.559
so I mean, like, what what do you do? So

868
00:42:05.920 --> 00:42:07.400
that was to me sort of like the what I'm

869
00:42:07.400 --> 00:42:09.239
hoping would be the mind blowing moment, like, oh, this

870
00:42:09.320 --> 00:42:12.239
is what the Blacklands world could be as a franchise

871
00:42:12.360 --> 00:42:14.960
or an ip whatever you want to call it. For me,

872
00:42:14.960 --> 00:42:16.760
it's always about the stories and the characters. But when

873
00:42:16.760 --> 00:42:18.360
I'm trying to sell a project to Hollywood, I have

874
00:42:18.400 --> 00:42:20.679
to kind of put the Hollywood pitch persona on and

875
00:42:20.800 --> 00:42:23.400
speaks in that language. So for me, it's also very

876
00:42:23.400 --> 00:42:25.840
personal and I love these stories and that's where my

877
00:42:25.880 --> 00:42:29.960
heart lies, you know. I like, I like working with

878
00:42:30.039 --> 00:42:32.360
film and TV, but for me, it's just like my

879
00:42:32.400 --> 00:42:33.920
heart is in my books. You know, Like if if

880
00:42:33.920 --> 00:42:35.960
I sell something a Hollywood, it's really just subsidizing my

881
00:42:35.960 --> 00:42:37.840
writing career. I'm not going to ever quit writing books.

882
00:42:37.880 --> 00:42:39.960
That's that's what I want to do. That's that's what

883
00:42:40.000 --> 00:42:40.719
I'll always do.

884
00:42:40.920 --> 00:42:46.840
Yeah, I love the the the the how scary the

885
00:42:46.880 --> 00:42:49.400
concept of the black Lands is because as you've seen Sycamore,

886
00:42:49.840 --> 00:42:52.480
a portal can open anywhere, So there's kind of people

887
00:42:52.480 --> 00:42:54.599
are going to be living under that stress constantly, if

888
00:42:55.079 --> 00:42:56.559
even if it's just in the back of the minds

889
00:42:56.880 --> 00:43:02.360
that they can't find firm foot on because anything can happen,

890
00:43:02.960 --> 00:43:06.519
any danger could just pop up right in your in

891
00:43:06.559 --> 00:43:07.599
your house, so to speak.

892
00:43:07.960 --> 00:43:13.000
And so you could see where Felix's sense of humor

893
00:43:13.199 --> 00:43:15.719
would be born partly of cynicism, like I said, partly

894
00:43:15.760 --> 00:43:19.079
as a defense mechanism. Doesn't touch sadness to what I feel.

895
00:43:19.519 --> 00:43:22.320
And so it's he's not like you said, he's not tried,

896
00:43:22.360 --> 00:43:25.840
he's not flippant. Uh. This is his kind of bitter

897
00:43:27.000 --> 00:43:30.079
kind of way to uh kind of express things in

898
00:43:30.079 --> 00:43:33.840
a way that to deal with it, Like you said,

899
00:43:33.840 --> 00:43:39.159
this this very uh hostile and changing world, which you

900
00:43:39.199 --> 00:43:41.360
could look at that in all kinds of metaphorical ways.

901
00:43:41.840 --> 00:43:45.920
The sequence is where he actually uh enters the black

902
00:43:46.000 --> 00:43:51.280
lands that we're terrifying. They were truly chilling, you know, and.

903
00:43:50.480 --> 00:43:52.320
You know that I've had in my head for a

904
00:43:52.440 --> 00:43:54.079
very very long time because I knew it was sort

905
00:43:54.119 --> 00:43:56.480
of like it was a I don't necessarily a game changer,

906
00:43:56.480 --> 00:43:57.800
but it was a wonder was like this is where

907
00:43:57.840 --> 00:43:59.679
I'm really trying to turn on the word ide. It

908
00:43:59.719 --> 00:44:01.760
was going to be a very scary scene and scary

909
00:44:01.800 --> 00:44:03.360
for the character too. It is one thing where was like,

910
00:44:03.719 --> 00:44:05.840
if there's the beginning, there's the end, and you have

911
00:44:05.880 --> 00:44:07.559
to do those things. Well, that was the scene where's like,

912
00:44:07.559 --> 00:44:09.400
I can't screw this up. I have to make sure

913
00:44:09.480 --> 00:44:11.960
this scene is really good for a full.

914
00:44:11.880 --> 00:44:16.519
Length novel as opposed to the short stories. It called

915
00:44:16.559 --> 00:44:20.639
for that kind of payoff, and you delivered with those sequences.

916
00:44:20.639 --> 00:44:22.199
They were really chilling well.

917
00:44:22.239 --> 00:44:23.800
And I did it kind of backwards, you know, And

918
00:44:23.840 --> 00:44:25.519
I think you've done it certain of the same way

919
00:44:25.559 --> 00:44:28.880
too with your series. And again taking a queue from Punktown,

920
00:44:29.159 --> 00:44:31.960
where I did all the short stories and novella's first,

921
00:44:32.039 --> 00:44:33.800
and then it took me ten years fiften years to

922
00:44:33.800 --> 00:44:35.320
do the novel. I don't think you took that long

923
00:44:35.360 --> 00:44:37.480
to do your Punktown novels, but I believe you started

924
00:44:37.480 --> 00:44:39.840
with the short stories first and sort of went with

925
00:44:39.880 --> 00:44:41.519
there and build it. You know. It's like I always

926
00:44:41.559 --> 00:44:44.239
saw them as kind of like trailers leading up to

927
00:44:44.280 --> 00:44:46.639
the main attraction, you know, to the main feature, and

928
00:44:46.679 --> 00:44:49.159
for me that was that was exactly what you know. Again,

929
00:44:49.239 --> 00:44:50.679
I really appreciate that you really get what I was

930
00:44:50.679 --> 00:44:52.159
trying to do with Sick more because it was sort

931
00:44:52.159 --> 00:44:55.400
of like, this is the This was delivery on the

932
00:44:55.440 --> 00:44:57.920
promise I sort of made with those short stories, So

933
00:44:58.000 --> 00:44:59.960
this is what a novel will be. I don't want

934
00:45:00.159 --> 00:45:01.800
to be full of all these grand set pieces. I

935
00:45:01.800 --> 00:45:04.159
still want to really honor what Felix does as a character,

936
00:45:04.719 --> 00:45:07.320
but I do definitely need to deliver and justify why

937
00:45:07.360 --> 00:45:10.000
this is a novel and not another novella or whatever.

938
00:45:10.119 --> 00:45:13.320
So it needs to be grandiose without having huge explosions,

939
00:45:13.360 --> 00:45:15.239
and you know, it's it's not like a superhero movie

940
00:45:15.239 --> 00:45:17.400
where it has to have all these these giants set

941
00:45:17.400 --> 00:45:20.000
pieces and stuff in this ridiculous action, because that's not

942
00:45:20.039 --> 00:45:22.480
a Felix story. It still needs to be a Felix story.

943
00:45:23.159 --> 00:45:25.559
I still wanted to have those kinds of scenes while

944
00:45:25.599 --> 00:45:28.800
still honoring what a Felix story should be. It's his

945
00:45:28.800 --> 00:45:32.039
His stories are very much supernatural noirs. I'm really trying

946
00:45:32.079 --> 00:45:36.559
to honor my love of you know, Ross MacDonald, you

947
00:45:36.599 --> 00:45:39.920
know William Hortzberg's Falling Angel, you know, even Clive Barker's

948
00:45:39.920 --> 00:45:41.599
Harry to Moore stories, as much as I'm trying to

949
00:45:41.599 --> 00:45:45.920
honor like Robert B. Parker, Dashel Hannett the long you know,

950
00:45:46.480 --> 00:45:49.920
you know series of PI author fiction that we've had,

951
00:45:51.480 --> 00:45:54.239
but the other story with other recurring characters are different.

952
00:45:54.320 --> 00:45:56.719
You know, like there's the the Alice Baffle character that

953
00:45:56.719 --> 00:45:59.079
that's introduced in Sycamore. I have ideas for series of

954
00:45:59.119 --> 00:46:02.320
novels with her, and hers are very much paranormal procedurals.

955
00:46:02.320 --> 00:46:06.400
They're like, what if Thomas Harris wrote horror novels instead

956
00:46:06.400 --> 00:46:10.159
of procedurals, Right, So it's like, imagine Clarice Starling instead

957
00:46:10.159 --> 00:46:12.480
of going to work for behavioral science, she went to

958
00:46:12.480 --> 00:46:15.119
work for the X Files, you know. So it's just

959
00:46:15.199 --> 00:46:17.639
and again for me, it's just really taking the supernatural,

960
00:46:18.760 --> 00:46:21.199
or started taking our world and dipping it in the supernatural.

961
00:46:21.559 --> 00:46:25.800
And and you know, the Jerry Baldwin character, the felix

962
00:46:25.840 --> 00:46:28.000
Is Trench, who sells haunted houses for a living. I

963
00:46:28.119 --> 00:46:31.519
literally just finished a new thirty thousand word novella with

964
00:46:31.599 --> 00:46:35.360
him on Friday. And his stories are a little bit lighter.

965
00:46:35.360 --> 00:46:37.519
They're sort of like Elmore Leonard sort of capers. They're

966
00:46:37.559 --> 00:46:39.639
not funny because there's nothing really funny about this world.

967
00:46:39.719 --> 00:46:41.840
But again, that's the whole point of the series, is

968
00:46:41.840 --> 00:46:45.199
that even the stories tonally can be different, you know,

969
00:46:45.320 --> 00:46:48.840
like the Felix Lens are supernatural noirs, the Alex baffel

970
00:46:48.840 --> 00:46:51.920
Wins are paranormal procedurals, whereas Jerry Baldwin are kind of

971
00:46:52.800 --> 00:46:55.599
Elmore Leonard meets the Amityville horror you know, sort of

972
00:46:55.639 --> 00:46:59.400
like and they're just fun. Like He's he's got bus

973
00:46:59.400 --> 00:47:02.639
ads around the around the city because he's real estate

974
00:47:02.679 --> 00:47:05.880
agent trying to sell haunted properties. And the the slogan

975
00:47:05.960 --> 00:47:09.079
he has is put a little super into your natural life.

976
00:47:09.280 --> 00:47:09.440
You know.

977
00:47:10.719 --> 00:47:13.000
That's the world. You know, I've tried to take I

978
00:47:13.079 --> 00:47:15.079
tried to put the super into this natural world that

979
00:47:15.119 --> 00:47:17.239
we all live in. Whereas like, well, what if ghosts

980
00:47:17.239 --> 00:47:18.960
and monsters really exist, if you're not going to bump

981
00:47:18.960 --> 00:47:20.360
into them as you if you walk when you walked

982
00:47:20.360 --> 00:47:23.000
down street, probably not. They're still fairly rare. I would say,

983
00:47:23.000 --> 00:47:25.840
there are dozens of portals around the world as opposed

984
00:47:25.840 --> 00:47:29.199
to hundreds, much less thousands, but they are there. We

985
00:47:29.239 --> 00:47:30.519
don't know how to get rid of them. And this

986
00:47:30.639 --> 00:47:32.960
is the world that we live in. And that was

987
00:47:32.960 --> 00:47:34.480
what I loved about punk Town. It's like it's not

988
00:47:34.519 --> 00:47:37.920
even our world, you know. Pashton is on another planet,

989
00:47:38.079 --> 00:47:40.760
and it's not even the only city there's there's there's

990
00:47:40.800 --> 00:47:43.920
other cities. And I'm trying to remember if you've set much,

991
00:47:44.000 --> 00:47:46.880
and I don't, they're definitely referenced, I feel, is Osiris

992
00:47:46.920 --> 00:47:49.519
one of the other megacities.

993
00:47:50.480 --> 00:47:55.039
Miniosis the oasis, and Miniosis is the other big city.

994
00:47:55.360 --> 00:47:57.679
It's right, it's larger than punk Town, but not as

995
00:47:58.199 --> 00:47:59.079
crime infested.

996
00:47:59.519 --> 00:47:59.719
Right.

997
00:48:00.519 --> 00:48:03.599
But yeah, I love what you're saying about the how

998
00:48:03.800 --> 00:48:08.719
your series can be totally different depending on who's the protagonist.

999
00:48:09.079 --> 00:48:10.840
That's exactly the kind of thing I try to do

1000
00:48:10.880 --> 00:48:13.719
with punkdown Is. And there's so much freedom in that.

1001
00:48:14.559 --> 00:48:17.679
You know, you can you can write a story where

1002
00:48:17.840 --> 00:48:20.880
the the main thrust of it is it's it's a romance,

1003
00:48:21.360 --> 00:48:23.880
this one's a detective story, this one's a gangster story.

1004
00:48:24.400 --> 00:48:27.159
And and people when they get used to that, then

1005
00:48:27.199 --> 00:48:31.519
they'll accept it. They know that there's that flexibility in

1006
00:48:31.559 --> 00:48:34.679
your setting and coming into it, and the more they

1007
00:48:34.719 --> 00:48:38.159
read of your of your setting, they'll they'll know that

1008
00:48:38.239 --> 00:48:41.719
they'll and they will give you that allowance. Whereas if

1009
00:48:41.840 --> 00:48:44.239
somebody else, if they write if they're right, we're writing

1010
00:48:44.280 --> 00:48:49.199
a series that was primarily science fiction and then suddenly

1011
00:48:49.679 --> 00:48:53.840
in one book in the series it becomes extremely horrific.

1012
00:48:54.239 --> 00:48:57.320
Maybe that might throw the people for a loop. So

1013
00:48:57.320 --> 00:49:02.320
so the consistency of punk Down is that it's inconsistent,

1014
00:49:02.400 --> 00:49:06.079
that it's tonally connective.

1015
00:49:06.599 --> 00:49:09.039
I saw between The New God and Monstrosity, where you're

1016
00:49:09.039 --> 00:49:11.239
dealing with love crafty and horrors and cults, and again

1017
00:49:11.320 --> 00:49:13.079
I like that you sort of it's but it's still

1018
00:49:13.119 --> 00:49:14.760
not the same thing that I love the idea of

1019
00:49:14.800 --> 00:49:17.119
the virtual library that you're introduced in The New God,

1020
00:49:17.159 --> 00:49:20.360
and the idea that these things can infect you. It

1021
00:49:20.400 --> 00:49:22.400
doesn't need to be a direct virus. It's like it's

1022
00:49:22.400 --> 00:49:24.119
like a mental thing. When when people are starting to

1023
00:49:24.119 --> 00:49:26.800
suffer from this, things like yeah, being in cyberspace is

1024
00:49:27.199 --> 00:49:29.119
there's there's no distance from you for that you can

1025
00:49:29.159 --> 00:49:31.159
still be infected by this thing. That this is like

1026
00:49:31.360 --> 00:49:33.079
like an idea. It's it's like it's like the movie

1027
00:49:33.159 --> 00:49:35.719
Inception where it starts with that long that line that

1028
00:49:35.760 --> 00:49:38.159
an idea is like a virus. It can infect you.

1029
00:49:38.320 --> 00:49:41.400
It's it can breed in your mind. And I thought

1030
00:49:41.440 --> 00:49:44.239
that was something that for me, was was absolutely terrifying

1031
00:49:44.280 --> 00:49:47.679
about The New God. Was no, no, it's virtual. He's

1032
00:49:47.719 --> 00:49:49.679
just did the cybers. It's like like Johnny Newonic, right,

1033
00:49:49.679 --> 00:49:51.519
It's like no, no, he's he's fine. Once he once

1034
00:49:51.559 --> 00:49:55.440
he jack say out, he'll be Uh. It's it's completely harmless.

1035
00:49:55.639 --> 00:49:57.360
So when you see this and then you really understand

1036
00:49:57.360 --> 00:50:01.360
what the stakes are with with what's happening with literally

1037
00:50:01.400 --> 00:50:03.519
with this New God, it's it starts off as sort

1038
00:50:03.559 --> 00:50:06.519
of this this concept that this character is trying to

1039
00:50:06.599 --> 00:50:09.119
use to sort of to fight the old ones, and

1040
00:50:09.159 --> 00:50:12.599
of course, you know, things go sideways and it's uh

1041
00:50:12.719 --> 00:50:14.559
and of course the best way possible that these things

1042
00:50:14.559 --> 00:50:16.719
to do. But again, very very unique. I just I've

1043
00:50:16.719 --> 00:50:19.199
never I've never seen that before in that much less

1044
00:50:19.199 --> 00:50:23.480
in Punktown or even like the Cosmic Menace type stories.

1045
00:50:23.559 --> 00:50:23.760
You know.

1046
00:50:24.199 --> 00:50:30.719
Yeah, speaking of uniqueness, Uh, you have some pretty interesting

1047
00:50:30.760 --> 00:50:32.599
things that happened in the New God, Jeffrey.

1048
00:50:33.760 --> 00:50:36.519
There's there's some creatures.

1049
00:50:37.079 --> 00:50:40.559
That just after I read it, I was I had

1050
00:50:40.559 --> 00:50:42.360
to go back and read them again because they were

1051
00:50:42.440 --> 00:50:46.719
just so far out there. I'm thinking of the slug

1052
00:50:48.760 --> 00:50:50.719
person and I don't want to give too much away

1053
00:50:50.719 --> 00:50:53.000
because it hit me as a surprise and I was

1054
00:50:53.039 --> 00:50:55.639
just like, oh my god, that was brilliant. How do

1055
00:50:55.679 --> 00:50:58.800
you like when you I noticed with your Punktown novels,

1056
00:50:58.840 --> 00:51:01.559
as you were saying there, they're very sort of diverse

1057
00:51:01.599 --> 00:51:04.960
and content they they're not always the same and so

1058
00:51:05.000 --> 00:51:07.920
you're not always going to get creatures like that. But

1059
00:51:07.920 --> 00:51:09.639
but when you do come up with a creature, how

1060
00:51:09.639 --> 00:51:12.280
do you approach creating something that's just like something you've

1061
00:51:12.280 --> 00:51:13.079
never seen before?

1062
00:51:13.280 --> 00:51:17.880
Wow? I well, I'm I'm big in the body horror,

1063
00:51:18.760 --> 00:51:20.920
so that's that's a lot to do with it. And

1064
00:51:21.000 --> 00:51:22.880
also I'm an artist, and I think that may be

1065
00:51:23.760 --> 00:51:30.079
I think in visual terms, and and I'll say that again.

1066
00:51:30.360 --> 00:51:34.840
The basic setup for the story was for Brian Salmon's

1067
00:51:36.599 --> 00:51:39.239
and I kind of saw me writing the novel as

1068
00:51:40.800 --> 00:51:43.920
he's the game master. Here's the setup. Now, where are

1069
00:51:43.920 --> 00:51:45.679
you going to go with it? Now? You now it's

1070
00:51:45.760 --> 00:51:48.760
up to you to take these characters and and it's

1071
00:51:48.800 --> 00:51:50.480
up to you to wrap it, wrap it up and

1072
00:51:50.480 --> 00:51:53.280
follow and make them, you know, send them through their paces.

1073
00:51:53.320 --> 00:51:58.679
But this is the basic setup in Brian's scenario in

1074
00:51:58.719 --> 00:52:03.199
the Punktown Role playing guidebook, the creatures are there's a

1075
00:52:03.239 --> 00:52:05.800
lot of creatures, but they're straight out of Lovecraft, like

1076
00:52:06.199 --> 00:52:08.800
the creature in the club Field part in the beginning

1077
00:52:09.440 --> 00:52:12.960
is the character changes and he becomes in the game

1078
00:52:13.000 --> 00:52:18.519
scenario becomes the goldenac from Ramsey Campbell's like an old

1079
00:52:18.559 --> 00:52:21.719
one that Ramsey Campbell came up with. And so there

1080
00:52:21.760 --> 00:52:23.800
is a lot of that that show goths and night

1081
00:52:23.840 --> 00:52:28.679
gods or whatever and all this the lovecrafting branded that

1082
00:52:28.760 --> 00:52:36.000
to show the prospective players that you can incorporate all

1083
00:52:36.039 --> 00:52:38.199
these love crafting elements in this way if you want to.

1084
00:52:38.400 --> 00:52:40.320
So he really loaded the scenario with that kind of

1085
00:52:40.320 --> 00:52:46.360
stuff to show people interested in running those games. How

1086
00:52:46.480 --> 00:52:50.440
Like I said, how much how many lovecrafting entities and

1087
00:52:50.480 --> 00:52:53.239
elements they could incorporate it if they so desired. But

1088
00:52:53.280 --> 00:52:56.159
when I came to write the book, I didn't want

1089
00:52:56.199 --> 00:53:02.280
to reference lovecraft inventions that closely. So there's very actually

1090
00:53:02.360 --> 00:53:05.440
very little that it's a love crafting story. Cosmic gods

1091
00:53:05.480 --> 00:53:07.840
and all that they were alluded to, but I didn't

1092
00:53:07.840 --> 00:53:11.039
want to use all the the actually used love love

1093
00:53:11.039 --> 00:53:14.400
crafting creatures and elements. So that's why I came up

1094
00:53:14.440 --> 00:53:18.239
with things like that slug creature and the and and this.

1095
00:53:18.639 --> 00:53:21.519
The character in Club Fiel in the beginning, he he

1096
00:53:21.599 --> 00:53:25.639
turns into something monstrous, but it's not strictly a lovecrafting

1097
00:53:25.719 --> 00:53:28.280
and creation a lot of love craft creation.

1098
00:53:28.599 --> 00:53:32.239
That beginning is just insane too, that what happens at

1099
00:53:32.239 --> 00:53:37.119
the very start of the story, it's like today today,

1100
00:53:37.159 --> 00:53:40.199
accidentally drink some something energetic.

1101
00:53:40.280 --> 00:53:45.000
Here. For me, it's just like you stain, you know

1102
00:53:45.000 --> 00:53:46.159
what you're gonna get, but you also don't know what

1103
00:53:46.199 --> 00:53:49.320
you're gonna get. With Jeffrey Thomas story, so it's like, again,

1104
00:53:49.360 --> 00:53:51.000
I think the last one I had read was was

1105
00:53:51.079 --> 00:53:53.920
Red Cells. I'm thinking, okay, well, it's very curious to

1106
00:53:53.920 --> 00:53:56.159
see what what I'll remember, because I've got a good

1107
00:53:56.159 --> 00:53:58.400
memory in some ways. In other ways it's just you know,

1108
00:53:58.760 --> 00:54:00.559
I'll forget it. I'll forget a care name, but it'll

1109
00:54:00.559 --> 00:54:02.280
be like, oh hey cool, the color strain is referenced,

1110
00:54:02.400 --> 00:54:04.239
or or hey there there's a health agent, you know,

1111
00:54:04.280 --> 00:54:05.920
because Health Agent was one of my one of my

1112
00:54:05.920 --> 00:54:08.679
favorite Punktown novels because it was it was like kind

1113
00:54:08.679 --> 00:54:10.639
of like X Files and meets Outbreak. It was just

1114
00:54:10.639 --> 00:54:12.559
like you've got these agents and their whole job is

1115
00:54:12.559 --> 00:54:16.119
to contain biological vectors and stuff, and it's like, that's realistic.

1116
00:54:16.159 --> 00:54:17.519
That's what you would have when you've got all these

1117
00:54:17.519 --> 00:54:20.840
different species, and England you would have virus agents would

1118
00:54:20.840 --> 00:54:24.800
be a thing. So it was just something that each book,

1119
00:54:24.840 --> 00:54:28.639
each story was so creative but so organic to the

1120
00:54:28.679 --> 00:54:31.440
world and the setting. It was just like, maybe that's

1121
00:54:31.480 --> 00:54:33.199
why I liked it. It was like, oh, this makes sense,

1122
00:54:33.239 --> 00:54:35.119
you know. And even even as much as these stories

1123
00:54:35.159 --> 00:54:37.079
make sense, he's you know, he's the author. You know,

1124
00:54:37.159 --> 00:54:40.239
Thomas is still surprising you. So there was that element

1125
00:54:40.280 --> 00:54:41.599
to me where it was like, even when I'm seeing

1126
00:54:41.599 --> 00:54:44.159
something familiar, like oh, hey, he references the bed bugs,

1127
00:54:44.159 --> 00:54:46.960
who might be my favorite of all of the creatures

1128
00:54:46.960 --> 00:54:48.599
in punk Town. That was I get to write about

1129
00:54:48.599 --> 00:54:51.400
the bedbugs and my my Punktown story, Bedbug Radio went

1130
00:54:51.400 --> 00:54:54.960
transmissions from prunk Town. But I don't know what he's

1131
00:54:54.960 --> 00:54:56.159
going to do with them. You know, he might he

1132
00:54:56.239 --> 00:54:57.880
might maybe they might be a minor part as they

1133
00:54:57.880 --> 00:55:00.519
are and the New God, but or that might be

1134
00:55:00.519 --> 00:55:02.119
a bigger part. And even if they are, I'm still

1135
00:55:02.119 --> 00:55:04.360
going to find out something different. They're going to do

1136
00:55:04.400 --> 00:55:08.679
something that's unexpected because you know, just going to lull

1137
00:55:08.719 --> 00:55:09.960
you a little bit. Oh yeah, you see, you know,

1138
00:55:10.159 --> 00:55:12.119
Punktown sort of. But then he's going to turn it

1139
00:55:12.159 --> 00:55:12.639
on its head.

1140
00:55:12.719 --> 00:55:12.840
You know.

1141
00:55:13.000 --> 00:55:14.760
It's just that's that's what I like about it. It's

1142
00:55:14.800 --> 00:55:17.159
just you're you're comfortable and uncomfortable at the at the

1143
00:55:17.199 --> 00:55:19.880
same time in all the best ways. That's I mean,

1144
00:55:19.920 --> 00:55:21.239
that's when you know you're in the hands of a master.

1145
00:55:21.280 --> 00:55:22.239
I don't I don't want to throw it that you

1146
00:55:22.320 --> 00:55:24.239
go too much, but that's what we're here. And it

1147
00:55:24.599 --> 00:55:26.639
was such a joy. It was just especially at this

1148
00:55:26.800 --> 00:55:28.840
time with all this stuff going on. It's it's a

1149
00:55:28.880 --> 00:55:31.360
book that I recommended to a lot of people and

1150
00:55:31.440 --> 00:55:33.239
reminding me of how much I love punk Town. It's

1151
00:55:33.280 --> 00:55:35.400
just like, oh, yeah, this is you know, I'm always

1152
00:55:35.440 --> 00:55:37.719
I always try and boost other authors because I don't

1153
00:55:37.760 --> 00:55:39.400
try to. I do it because I love other authors

1154
00:55:39.440 --> 00:55:40.679
and their stories. So it's like, oh, it's been a

1155
00:55:40.719 --> 00:55:42.960
little while since I recommended punk Town because we haven't

1156
00:55:42.960 --> 00:55:45.639
had a Punktown book for a little while, and it

1157
00:55:45.760 --> 00:55:46.880
was just like, oh, yeah, you've got to read the

1158
00:55:46.920 --> 00:55:48.800
New God and then you have to read this, this,

1159
00:55:48.960 --> 00:55:50.880
this is this. It's just I want to give people

1160
00:55:51.000 --> 00:55:55.000
like a Punktown starter pack and just here here's a

1161
00:55:55.039 --> 00:55:57.280
care pack. It's just you know, digest all this because

1162
00:55:57.280 --> 00:55:58.400
it's going to be different, and it's all going to

1163
00:55:58.440 --> 00:56:00.239
be fantastic. It's not any one thing. It's well, if

1164
00:56:00.280 --> 00:56:02.400
you like that, you like this. If you like love

1165
00:56:02.440 --> 00:56:04.840
craft and stuff, read Monstrosity and then read New Gods

1166
00:56:04.960 --> 00:56:08.360
or go to If you like military stuff and you like,

1167
00:56:08.480 --> 00:56:10.320
you know, sort of like war stories, read you know,

1168
00:56:10.480 --> 00:56:12.480
like read Blue Planet, you know, because there's some Blue

1169
00:56:12.519 --> 00:56:15.599
Planet references in New God as well too. And again

1170
00:56:15.639 --> 00:56:19.559
it's just just like it's like revisiting, you know, old

1171
00:56:19.599 --> 00:56:22.000
stamping grounds. It's like it's like meeting up with old friends.

1172
00:56:22.159 --> 00:56:24.039
That's one of the things I loved about the New

1173
00:56:24.079 --> 00:56:24.639
Gods so much.

1174
00:56:25.400 --> 00:56:29.639
You do have a short collection of a pump punk

1175
00:56:29.679 --> 00:56:32.039
Town stories called Welcome to punk Town. Is is that

1176
00:56:32.199 --> 00:56:35.719
somewhere where you would say somebody could start reading punk Town?

1177
00:56:35.840 --> 00:56:41.079
Yeah? Actually, yeah, I've got I bundled. I bundled a

1178
00:56:41.199 --> 00:56:44.960
bunch of chat books again, stories that have been previously published,

1179
00:56:45.199 --> 00:56:46.760
and I wanted to do something with them instead of

1180
00:56:46.880 --> 00:56:51.000
putting them into into kind of a thick anthology. I

1181
00:56:51.480 --> 00:56:57.119
followed the lead of a writer, uh William William Michael,

1182
00:56:58.800 --> 00:57:02.400
who bundles like three stories and sell them as a

1183
00:57:02.480 --> 00:57:05.559
chap book series and so I I copied that idea.

1184
00:57:06.119 --> 00:57:09.400
So I put together a few punkdown chat books like that,

1185
00:57:10.079 --> 00:57:14.119
and and so one of those chap books would be

1186
00:57:14.400 --> 00:57:17.519
a good One of those punkdown chap books that has

1187
00:57:17.559 --> 00:57:20.599
only three stories might be a good entering entry point

1188
00:57:20.639 --> 00:57:22.480
for people who haven't read it before and they kind

1189
00:57:22.480 --> 00:57:24.199
of just want to kind of get a taste for us,

1190
00:57:24.280 --> 00:57:26.519
get their feet wet, uh, and to see if they

1191
00:57:26.559 --> 00:57:31.840
want to read something uh larger. But yeah, yeah, welcome

1192
00:57:31.880 --> 00:57:37.039
to punkdown. And there's a couple others that I think

1193
00:57:37.079 --> 00:57:39.159
would be that is actually a good idea for as

1194
00:57:39.199 --> 00:57:39.880
a starting point.

1195
00:57:40.639 --> 00:57:43.440
It just it just it almost sounds like, you know, uh,

1196
00:57:43.960 --> 00:57:46.159
you know, come here and check these stories out and.

1197
00:57:46.199 --> 00:57:48.039
If you like it. There's a lot more.

1198
00:57:49.679 --> 00:57:52.639
Like even the title itself and obviously yeah, yeah, the intent,

1199
00:57:52.760 --> 00:57:54.599
but it's a good little standpoint. I mean for us,

1200
00:57:54.639 --> 00:57:56.599
I just go go whole hog By the first book

1201
00:57:56.639 --> 00:57:59.159
calculation read from there. But I mean that's for you.

1202
00:57:59.239 --> 00:58:02.119
I mean, obviously I think there's a lot there that

1203
00:58:03.519 --> 00:58:05.119
I think there's a lot there that even the ideas

1204
00:58:05.159 --> 00:58:07.519
that you haven't even developed that could be developed in

1205
00:58:07.559 --> 00:58:09.039
longer work. But you don't need to. You've seen a

1206
00:58:09.079 --> 00:58:11.760
slice of life in all of these stories in that

1207
00:58:11.840 --> 00:58:15.840
collection and then other ones. Some of those stories are

1208
00:58:16.000 --> 00:58:18.920
explored in greater depth in the novel series. And but again,

1209
00:58:18.960 --> 00:58:20.960
you can pick up whatever you want, in my opinion,

1210
00:58:21.360 --> 00:58:25.880
and start wherever you want, whether it's anything like Everybody

1211
00:58:25.960 --> 00:58:29.000
Scream or Health Asian or Monstrosity or New God. And

1212
00:58:30.480 --> 00:58:32.280
all I know is that, in my opinion, once you

1213
00:58:32.360 --> 00:58:34.400
read one, you're gonna want everything else, because like, that's

1214
00:58:34.559 --> 00:58:37.800
how I am with a series that I like. It's

1215
00:58:37.840 --> 00:58:39.760
funny because we were talking about series and how do

1216
00:58:39.760 --> 00:58:41.960
you get people to buy the first one. Usually it's

1217
00:58:42.000 --> 00:58:45.679
just like, well they start with you from the beginning.

1218
00:58:45.760 --> 00:58:47.280
Well they will if they think they're going to get

1219
00:58:47.280 --> 00:58:49.000
more books right away. But some people won't even start

1220
00:58:49.000 --> 00:58:50.639
a series until they know you've got two or three out.

1221
00:58:50.639 --> 00:58:52.199
And that's something I think is really great. With Cemetery

1222
00:58:52.239 --> 00:58:54.639
and Steven Spotify, who's doing the audio books for Black

1223
00:58:54.719 --> 00:58:57.159
Man's Is they seem pretty invested, you know, like there's

1224
00:58:57.159 --> 00:58:59.360
only two books scheduled. Obviously I've got other stuff going

1225
00:58:59.440 --> 00:59:01.760
and stuff I'm working on. They seem that they're in

1226
00:59:01.800 --> 00:59:03.960
it for for for the long haul, because they know

1227
00:59:04.039 --> 00:59:06.880
it takes a few books and when the second book

1228
00:59:06.880 --> 00:59:08.760
comes out, the first book, we'll get a resurgence, right.

1229
00:59:08.880 --> 00:59:11.559
So I think with the Punktown series, it's the same

1230
00:59:11.639 --> 00:59:14.320
thing where it's just, uh, it's like a gateway drug.

1231
00:59:14.519 --> 00:59:16.039
You know, you get a little taste and then you're

1232
00:59:16.039 --> 00:59:17.559
gonna want the whole thing and then something you're gonna

1233
00:59:17.559 --> 00:59:21.599
be But it's healthy, it's not it's not harrowin, it's

1234
00:59:21.599 --> 00:59:22.840
just really really good stories.

1235
00:59:23.159 --> 00:59:26.239
Still still take it for a weird trip exactly.

1236
00:59:26.440 --> 00:59:26.880
Definitely.

1237
00:59:27.679 --> 00:59:33.599
Yeah, And I'm happy that there are short stories and

1238
00:59:34.000 --> 00:59:38.079
novels as as as there is now for you, for you,

1239
00:59:38.239 --> 00:59:40.960
for you in because there are of course people who

1240
00:59:41.480 --> 00:59:44.559
who they'll only read novels that they don't're not interested

1241
00:59:44.559 --> 00:59:46.679
in short stories. Then of other people who favorite short

1242
00:59:46.719 --> 00:59:50.199
stories over novels, and so you're giving people a choice

1243
00:59:50.239 --> 00:59:52.440
if they are so inclined to lean one way or

1244
00:59:52.519 --> 00:59:56.039
the other. Myself, I I I I've always got a

1245
00:59:56.079 --> 00:59:59.000
short story collection and a novel that i'm reading, you know,

1246
00:59:59.039 --> 00:59:59.760
I like to alternate.

1247
00:59:59.800 --> 01:00:01.360
Yeah, I love both forms.

1248
01:00:01.840 --> 01:00:04.559
But I think it was somebody who said, like, it's

1249
01:00:04.639 --> 01:00:07.199
not you know, it's not about good reviews or bad reviews,

1250
01:00:07.199 --> 01:00:09.880
like the real enemy of any writer's obscurity and when

1251
01:00:09.880 --> 01:00:11.880
they're not talking about you. So that was something where

1252
01:00:11.880 --> 01:00:13.480
it's just like, as long as you've got short stories

1253
01:00:13.519 --> 01:00:15.079
and novels coming out and that they're out there and

1254
01:00:15.119 --> 01:00:18.039
they're stolen print, people could find you anywhere, and it's

1255
01:00:18.039 --> 01:00:20.239
like little breadcrumbs and they're not necessarily led in the

1256
01:00:20.280 --> 01:00:22.639
straight line. They're sort of scattered to the winds. But

1257
01:00:22.719 --> 01:00:24.239
if they find you, they can still lead back to

1258
01:00:24.280 --> 01:00:25.880
you and lead to more stories. Like I can't tell

1259
01:00:25.880 --> 01:00:27.760
you how many people have been like, oh, I read

1260
01:00:27.800 --> 01:00:30.159
this short story like in the Yell Datlow collection. That

1261
01:00:30.280 --> 01:00:31.599
was a big coup for me. Right, that was Tory

1262
01:00:31.719 --> 01:00:34.960
Nitefire's very first anthology and to have this story at

1263
01:00:34.960 --> 01:00:38.119
the very beginning of it was great. And I can't

1264
01:00:38.440 --> 01:00:40.400
talk about a lot of the details with the Black

1265
01:00:40.480 --> 01:00:43.519
Plans movie that were shopping the guys who wrote the

1266
01:00:44.239 --> 01:00:47.079
screenplay or who've written the treatment for it. That's the

1267
01:00:47.199 --> 01:00:49.840
story and they that's how they found it. They found

1268
01:00:49.880 --> 01:00:51.920
that through there they became fans of me. They knew

1269
01:00:51.920 --> 01:00:53.760
about the Black Plans. That was their introduction to it.

1270
01:00:53.920 --> 01:00:57.000
So it works, you know, like it works when it

1271
01:00:57.039 --> 01:00:59.719
comes to finding people that way, and even when you're

1272
01:00:59.760 --> 01:01:02.119
talking to and I'm sure you've had your dealings with

1273
01:01:02.239 --> 01:01:05.280
with the Hollywood people too, Jeff, Like, it's always I

1274
01:01:05.360 --> 01:01:07.800
can't never tell what's more exciting when it's these these

1275
01:01:07.800 --> 01:01:09.639
people are reading your work, or you have a meeting

1276
01:01:09.679 --> 01:01:11.360
with someone and they already know your work. You know,

1277
01:01:11.480 --> 01:01:14.400
it's it's very very cool because you never know when

1278
01:01:14.440 --> 01:01:16.239
your stories are going to fall into someone's hands. It's

1279
01:01:16.480 --> 01:01:19.119
certainly not why I'm doing it, so go hey, you know,

1280
01:01:19.199 --> 01:01:21.320
I had a meeting with Jason Bateman and he's a

1281
01:01:21.360 --> 01:01:24.159
fan of my work. That's cool. I like that, But

1282
01:01:24.280 --> 01:01:26.039
it's not why I'm doing it. It's just it's a

1283
01:01:26.119 --> 01:01:27.519
cool side. But I'm doing it because I love it,

1284
01:01:27.639 --> 01:01:29.360
you know, like I love telling stories. I love to

1285
01:01:29.400 --> 01:01:32.480
be able to do to do what I want. Anything

1286
01:01:32.519 --> 01:01:34.159
else that I get from that is just a really

1287
01:01:34.239 --> 01:01:37.039
cool side benefit, you know, Like it's just in the

1288
01:01:37.039 --> 01:01:38.559
people that I've got to meet. Like I remember I

1289
01:01:38.639 --> 01:01:41.199
got to meet you, Jeff at a reader con one year,

1290
01:01:41.280 --> 01:01:43.000
and I believe I was so nervous because it was

1291
01:01:43.000 --> 01:01:44.719
like one of my very first conventions where I was

1292
01:01:44.920 --> 01:01:47.599
I was meeting you, I was meeting like Elizabeth hand

1293
01:01:47.679 --> 01:01:50.559
I was meeting Lard Barron and all these people. Everyone's

1294
01:01:50.599 --> 01:01:52.519
super nice. I've never met a bad person out there.

1295
01:01:52.599 --> 01:01:53.599
Everyone is really great.

1296
01:01:53.800 --> 01:01:53.920
You know.

1297
01:01:54.000 --> 01:01:56.519
They signed my books, but more than anything, they were

1298
01:01:56.599 --> 01:01:59.480
treating me as as a friend and a contemporary, even

1299
01:01:59.519 --> 01:02:01.880
though I hadn't really done anything. It's, uh, it's a

1300
01:02:01.920 --> 01:02:04.480
great community. And that's one of the things I love

1301
01:02:04.719 --> 01:02:07.679
about about being a writer. It's being able to write

1302
01:02:07.679 --> 01:02:09.440
these stories and being able to sort of say, hey,

1303
01:02:09.519 --> 01:02:11.960
you know, I was doing this because of someone like,

1304
01:02:12.239 --> 01:02:14.400
you know, Jeffrey Thomas when I discovered back in the nineties.

1305
01:02:14.480 --> 01:02:16.159
You know, it's it's a really cool connection. And then

1306
01:02:16.159 --> 01:02:17.760
I got to meet him in person ten years later.

1307
01:02:17.880 --> 01:02:20.079
It's that's awesome, awesome, I love it.

1308
01:02:20.400 --> 01:02:23.960
Yeah, I just want to say quickly here James Fetcho,

1309
01:02:24.159 --> 01:02:28.960
he's uh, he's been uh watching my channel for years now.

1310
01:02:29.360 --> 01:02:31.559
He says he didn't even know about the New God

1311
01:02:31.639 --> 01:02:32.519
Book and he.

1312
01:02:32.719 --> 01:02:35.679
Just reread all the Jeffrey Thomas stuff that he had

1313
01:02:35.760 --> 01:02:36.519
a few months ago.

1314
01:02:37.400 --> 01:02:40.039
Well, you're just gonna have to add that now. Actually

1315
01:02:40.199 --> 01:02:41.880
I think he did say that he bought it. Yeah,

1316
01:02:42.000 --> 01:02:44.119
getting it now. Yeah, really have to.

1317
01:02:44.079 --> 01:02:45.639
Talk about We haven't talked about it all. It's the

1318
01:02:45.719 --> 01:02:48.760
one thing that I don't have because I couldn't afford

1319
01:02:48.800 --> 01:02:50.360
it at the time. And and again, if they if

1320
01:02:50.400 --> 01:02:52.400
the Netflix movie gets made and there's a There's there's

1321
01:02:52.400 --> 01:02:54.400
a There's an Every House That Haunted and update usposed

1322
01:02:54.400 --> 01:02:57.039
to be getting any time now, I said, like, if

1323
01:02:57.079 --> 01:03:00.880
I get my giant, my giant paycheck to make this movie,

1324
01:03:00.920 --> 01:03:02.599
I said, I've already told my wife. She's already cool.

1325
01:03:02.679 --> 01:03:04.960
I said, I'm going on the secondary market. I'm buying

1326
01:03:05.159 --> 01:03:10.199
the Cemetery or the Senipede, Presstown omnib. But there's still

1327
01:03:10.239 --> 01:03:13.039
every down again, a copy of these three books that

1328
01:03:13.239 --> 01:03:15.280
ended up on that that goes up on eBay, But

1329
01:03:16.039 --> 01:03:17.800
can you talk about about how that happened? And the

1330
01:03:18.920 --> 01:03:20.360
collection of all the stories, and I believe there's a

1331
01:03:20.360 --> 01:03:22.360
few new ones in there. I just want it. Even

1332
01:03:22.360 --> 01:03:23.920
if it was all reprint, I would still want it.

1333
01:03:25.880 --> 01:03:32.000
I have to give credit to Michael Cisco, the writer.

1334
01:03:32.119 --> 01:03:34.400
Michael Cisco, he put a bug in the ear of

1335
01:03:34.719 --> 01:03:38.119
Jared Walters sent to me press years ago. He's saying,

1336
01:03:38.159 --> 01:03:40.440
like you should do it. Some kind of a collection

1337
01:03:40.480 --> 01:03:44.000
of Jeffrey Thomas's work and then a Facebook friend of mine,

1338
01:03:44.079 --> 01:03:47.880
Donald Cobb, had mentioned years later he had mentioned to

1339
01:03:48.159 --> 01:03:51.320
Jared gard Walters that he should do a collection of

1340
01:03:51.400 --> 01:03:54.760
Punkdown stories. So Gerard looked into that. We we had

1341
01:03:54.840 --> 01:03:57.840
met at an ecronomicon, and I don't know, I don't

1342
01:03:57.880 --> 01:04:01.920
know if Jared Jared had remember that a lot, but

1343
01:04:03.239 --> 01:04:08.559
based on Donald Cobb, uh reminding him about my work

1344
01:04:08.599 --> 01:04:12.960
and seconding Michael Cisco's suggests that he put together something

1345
01:04:13.039 --> 01:04:17.280
of mine, uh, we started talking about doing an omnibus

1346
01:04:17.400 --> 01:04:21.360
of Punkdown stories. So that's what we started doing. We

1347
01:04:21.639 --> 01:04:24.199
and we put together all the punkdown Stories at that

1348
01:04:24.400 --> 01:04:28.960
time into three massive volumes, each with a forward by

1349
01:04:29.039 --> 01:04:32.679
somebody different. And of course there's been more Punk Down

1350
01:04:32.760 --> 01:04:37.840
Stories since then. But it's a beautiful, a beautiful collection,

1351
01:04:38.280 --> 01:04:42.440
a huge collection of three beautiful volumes, and it sold

1352
01:04:42.480 --> 01:04:47.880
out like in no time. And and uh, I got

1353
01:04:48.199 --> 01:04:49.840
I got a nice paycheck from that too.

1354
01:04:50.800 --> 01:04:54.480
I got to make books like the giant oversize I've got,

1355
01:04:55.239 --> 01:04:57.079
I've got the Stephen King Salem's Lot with all the

1356
01:04:57.159 --> 01:05:00.920
deleted scenes from from from Us from from that book,

1357
01:05:01.000 --> 01:05:05.280
which which is just incredible. I mean, I love having

1358
01:05:05.320 --> 01:05:07.400
the extras. I mean like the I love the deluxe

1359
01:05:07.400 --> 01:05:10.000
hard covers. Again, it's not not as a collector, like

1360
01:05:10.039 --> 01:05:12.000
I would never resell these. These are my babies, and

1361
01:05:13.599 --> 01:05:15.679
I always love the extras. I think of like special

1362
01:05:15.800 --> 01:05:18.480
edition DVDs may get all the cool features. Here's the

1363
01:05:18.519 --> 01:05:21.360
audio commentary track, here's the here's the alternate ending. So

1364
01:05:21.519 --> 01:05:24.159
I love the fact that they're signed, but for me,

1365
01:05:24.239 --> 01:05:25.559
it's always the extra features.

1366
01:05:25.639 --> 01:05:30.760
So they do press books are treasures. They're really beautiful.

1367
01:05:31.280 --> 01:05:31.559
Mh.

1368
01:05:31.920 --> 01:05:36.360
So that was that was that was throating nice.

1369
01:05:37.079 --> 01:05:39.639
I I regret that, you know, I sometimes miss out

1370
01:05:39.679 --> 01:05:43.039
on these things because uh uh, like I was saying

1371
01:05:43.159 --> 01:05:47.000
earlier that books, I live in a small, fairly small space,

1372
01:05:47.760 --> 01:05:50.239
uh and books have completely taken over.

1373
01:05:50.639 --> 01:05:52.079
I have nowhere else to put them.

1374
01:05:52.519 --> 01:05:55.800
So I've been selling a lot of my books and

1375
01:05:56.400 --> 01:05:58.199
because I want to get more. But then you think

1376
01:05:58.199 --> 01:05:59.760
about it, it's like, am I just going to sell

1377
01:05:59.800 --> 01:06:00.400
those too?

1378
01:06:00.559 --> 01:06:03.719
You know? Yeah, that's why I feel. That's where like

1379
01:06:03.880 --> 01:06:05.480
I'm at the point now where it's like, yeah, I'm

1380
01:06:05.480 --> 01:06:07.559
probably not going to be able to read everything that

1381
01:06:07.679 --> 01:06:09.039
I own, but of course it's not going to stop

1382
01:06:09.079 --> 01:06:11.920
me from supply anymore. I urge a it more like

1383
01:06:11.960 --> 01:06:13.559
if I read a book and I'm not going to

1384
01:06:13.639 --> 01:06:15.320
probably read it again and it doesn't have a real

1385
01:06:15.360 --> 01:06:18.599
personal significance to me, I'm more inclined to sell it

1386
01:06:18.679 --> 01:06:21.400
or donate it to a library. I've done that much,

1387
01:06:21.400 --> 01:06:22.960
at least just to make some face. Yeah, even in

1388
01:06:23.000 --> 01:06:24.159
my office you can see a bit of it on

1389
01:06:24.239 --> 01:06:27.519
the camera. Every wall is bookshelves except for that one

1390
01:06:27.559 --> 01:06:29.079
over there, and it's still like a half well, and

1391
01:06:29.119 --> 01:06:31.559
that's only because I left. That's a framed copy of

1392
01:06:31.639 --> 01:06:34.639
my very first book, the book. But that's it. Like

1393
01:06:34.719 --> 01:06:37.920
even the you can see below it the Vivil Dead poster.

1394
01:06:38.039 --> 01:06:40.079
That's the signed evil Dead poster I got after Sam

1395
01:06:40.199 --> 01:06:42.719
raimi auf House is haunted, and I still don't have

1396
01:06:42.800 --> 01:06:44.760
a place to hang it. It's just it's framed, and

1397
01:06:44.840 --> 01:06:46.880
I moved around the office because there's nowhere to hang it.

1398
01:06:46.960 --> 01:06:50.800
You know, I have, I know I can relate that totally.

1399
01:06:50.840 --> 01:06:52.880
And just like you said, I and I'm sure I'm

1400
01:06:52.920 --> 01:06:55.239
never going to there's no doubt about it. I'm never

1401
01:06:55.280 --> 01:06:57.159
going to read every book I have, But that does

1402
01:06:57.199 --> 01:07:01.960
not stop me from ordering ordered a book today, you know, Yeah,

1403
01:07:02.079 --> 01:07:02.519
And I love them.

1404
01:07:02.559 --> 01:07:04.840
Books. Books are great I'm a book I love movies

1405
01:07:04.880 --> 01:07:07.400
and I'm not a ladite. I love movies and TV too.

1406
01:07:07.440 --> 01:07:11.320
I watch a lot, but it's uh, it's even. And again,

1407
01:07:11.400 --> 01:07:13.800
let's face it with with postal prices these days, it's

1408
01:07:13.800 --> 01:07:16.239
hard to buy a lot of books because everything's expensive.

1409
01:07:16.360 --> 01:07:19.199
So my first, my debut novel came out last year

1410
01:07:19.280 --> 01:07:23.239
family from Earthening Publications, and a lot of people, you know,

1411
01:07:23.440 --> 01:07:25.679
especially in my families or couldn't afford it because it's

1412
01:07:25.840 --> 01:07:27.599
you know, the book that the shippings almost as much

1413
01:07:27.599 --> 01:07:29.199
as the book in some cases the pan on where

1414
01:07:29.199 --> 01:07:32.320
you live. But you know they will want to support me.

1415
01:07:32.360 --> 01:07:34.199
And of course, you know, the idea is that I

1416
01:07:34.320 --> 01:07:36.480
love the deluxe editions. I'm always trying to make sure

1417
01:07:36.480 --> 01:07:38.719
that there's a more affordable, you know, trade paperback or

1418
01:07:38.719 --> 01:07:41.840
an ebook edition. There isn't always the case. Again, my

1419
01:07:41.960 --> 01:07:43.599
my real fight is with obscurity. I want to make

1420
01:07:43.599 --> 01:07:45.719
sure I've got books out because I went ten years

1421
01:07:45.760 --> 01:07:47.679
with having nothing out every house A Saunted came out

1422
01:07:47.719 --> 01:07:50.719
in twenty twelve and then there was nothing for years,

1423
01:07:50.760 --> 01:07:53.280
and people either thought maybe I've retired or I'm dead,

1424
01:07:53.519 --> 01:07:54.800
and it was like, no one's still there, I'm still

1425
01:07:54.840 --> 01:07:57.760
doing stuff, but I hadn't really sold anything until I really,

1426
01:07:58.400 --> 01:08:00.400
you know, started going back into the small presses. I

1427
01:08:00.480 --> 01:08:02.440
was trying to sell stuff to the Big Five and

1428
01:08:03.119 --> 01:08:05.599
lots of nice rejections, but I wasn't selling anything, so

1429
01:08:05.920 --> 01:08:08.840
it looked like I wasn't around. So in twenty twenty three,

1430
01:08:08.880 --> 01:08:11.920
I decided to start really reconnecting with with the smaller

1431
01:08:11.960 --> 01:08:14.199
presses again. So I reached out to people like Garthling

1432
01:08:14.599 --> 01:08:17.880
and PS and Cemetery Dance, and that year I sold

1433
01:08:17.960 --> 01:08:21.640
five books and I was just you know, I well,

1434
01:08:21.640 --> 01:08:23.279
I was back. But then the other hand, and the

1435
01:08:23.479 --> 01:08:25.800
way I wasn't really away, I didn't really gone anywhere.

1436
01:08:25.840 --> 01:08:27.920
It was just trying to sort of, you know, take

1437
01:08:27.960 --> 01:08:30.920
control of my own writerly destiny, I guess, and get

1438
01:08:31.000 --> 01:08:32.960
the stuff out there, and trying to make sure that yeah,

1439
01:08:33.000 --> 01:08:36.119
even if they are the more expensive deluxe hardcovers and

1440
01:08:36.239 --> 01:08:38.520
some people may not be able to buy them, at

1441
01:08:38.600 --> 01:08:40.600
least it's you know, something is better than nothing, and

1442
01:08:40.640 --> 01:08:42.760
I'll still have my agent working on trying to sell

1443
01:08:42.800 --> 01:08:45.479
those rights to like the Big five or or whoever.

1444
01:08:45.960 --> 01:08:49.680
I might do a more accessible, affordable trade paperback edition.

1445
01:08:49.760 --> 01:08:52.119
It's it's it's hybridizing, you know, like you're trying to

1446
01:08:52.159 --> 01:08:53.840
be like the hybrid writer. That's that's I think how

1447
01:08:53.880 --> 01:08:55.199
you have to succeed these days. You have to do

1448
01:08:55.239 --> 01:08:58.399
a little bit of everything. I write full time, but

1449
01:08:58.600 --> 01:09:01.199
selling books is actually pays the least amount for me.

1450
01:09:01.279 --> 01:09:02.880
You know, I work in video games, I do film

1451
01:09:02.960 --> 01:09:06.600
and TV. I do graphic novels, comics and stuff. And

1452
01:09:07.279 --> 01:09:09.560
like I said, ironically, it's the book stuff that pays

1453
01:09:10.199 --> 01:09:11.239
usually the least amount.

1454
01:09:11.359 --> 01:09:14.840
You know, it's and that's like your favorite your favorite

1455
01:09:15.119 --> 01:09:16.680
avenue of Oh yeah.

1456
01:09:16.760 --> 01:09:18.119
And that's the irony of it, right, That's why I

1457
01:09:18.159 --> 01:09:19.640
say it's sort of like the film and TV stuff,

1458
01:09:19.640 --> 01:09:22.920
but obviously is what pays the most. But it really

1459
01:09:23.000 --> 01:09:25.039
just subsidizes my writing career, you know. You see that

1460
01:09:25.159 --> 01:09:26.399
that's the world where you really have to take it

1461
01:09:26.399 --> 01:09:27.640
with a grain of salt. You can have your heart

1462
01:09:27.680 --> 01:09:30.119
broken if you're really going to get emotionally invested because

1463
01:09:30.119 --> 01:09:32.560
it's so hard to get anything made. Every House is

1464
01:09:32.560 --> 01:09:36.560
Haunted was auctioned years ago, and between the pandemic and

1465
01:09:36.600 --> 01:09:39.199
then the streaming wars, it just keeps getting delayed. Now

1466
01:09:39.239 --> 01:09:41.840
it keeps getting reauctioned. You know, obviously they want to

1467
01:09:41.880 --> 01:09:43.640
make it. If they weren't interested, they would just not

1468
01:09:43.840 --> 01:09:46.560
renew it. But they've renewed it multiple times.

1469
01:09:46.600 --> 01:09:46.760
You know.

1470
01:09:46.880 --> 01:09:49.760
I've had you know, you know, zoom conversations with with

1471
01:09:49.920 --> 01:09:52.720
Raimi himself. They they've been very good about keeping me

1472
01:09:52.760 --> 01:09:54.560
in the loop. I'm working as a consultant on the film.

1473
01:09:54.920 --> 01:09:57.239
But they're also just good people who are really care

1474
01:09:57.279 --> 01:10:00.479
about the project. So it's I think it's going to happen.

1475
01:10:00.600 --> 01:10:00.720
You know.

1476
01:10:00.840 --> 01:10:06.279
It's a it's a very very weird, uh world these

1477
01:10:06.359 --> 01:10:08.319
days in terms of film and TV. It's in terms

1478
01:10:08.359 --> 01:10:10.680
of what gets made or how it's uh, it's the

1479
01:10:10.800 --> 01:10:13.600
landscape has changed quite a bit. But I'm confident that

1480
01:10:13.720 --> 01:10:16.239
it will it will get made. But that's how you

1481
01:10:16.279 --> 01:10:17.960
have to survive as a writer these days. If you're

1482
01:10:18.000 --> 01:10:19.439
going to try to make any kind of a living

1483
01:10:19.520 --> 01:10:21.199
at it, you have to do a little bit of everything.

1484
01:10:22.119 --> 01:10:22.680
Absolutely.

1485
01:10:22.760 --> 01:10:27.159
Yeah, And like you're saying, I I I've had a

1486
01:10:27.239 --> 01:10:31.680
couple of books sold to a larger publisher, you know,

1487
01:10:31.880 --> 01:10:35.199
like like a Solaris Books, right, But I'm but I

1488
01:10:35.319 --> 01:10:38.199
also work with small publishers too, because, like I said,

1489
01:10:38.279 --> 01:10:41.359
you sprinkle the crumbs around, maybe nobody's going to read

1490
01:10:41.399 --> 01:10:43.600
all your work, but maybe they'll find this story in

1491
01:10:43.680 --> 01:10:46.680
this anthology. It may or may not lead them to

1492
01:10:46.720 --> 01:10:49.159
read more of your work, but at least somebody read that.

1493
01:10:49.279 --> 01:10:51.199
You found you there. Somebody else is going to find

1494
01:10:51.199 --> 01:10:54.760
you over here, so cumulatively, you're finding an audience. It's

1495
01:10:54.880 --> 01:10:57.680
it's just kind of spread out, and some people are

1496
01:10:57.720 --> 01:10:59.359
going to read that book that they're going to find

1497
01:10:59.399 --> 01:11:01.880
in the library. One of the greatest thrills of my

1498
01:11:02.000 --> 01:11:04.680
life was going in the in the library that my

1499
01:11:04.800 --> 01:11:09.520
childhood home of Westboro, Massachusetts, going in there just randomly

1500
01:11:09.560 --> 01:11:11.399
and look into the science fiction section and finding my

1501
01:11:11.439 --> 01:11:13.479
book Dead Stock. I was thrilled. It was one of

1502
01:11:13.479 --> 01:11:16.199
the greatest thrills in my life because I grew up

1503
01:11:16.199 --> 01:11:18.279
in that library and I didn't ask them to order

1504
01:11:18.359 --> 01:11:23.039
that book there. It was in my hometown library. You're

1505
01:11:23.039 --> 01:11:24.600
going to have a book like that that's you're going

1506
01:11:24.640 --> 01:11:27.880
to be able to find readily, and then maybe you

1507
01:11:28.000 --> 01:11:30.640
never will again, but maybe you know there's going to

1508
01:11:30.640 --> 01:11:34.239
be story sprinkled in these anthologies or this new god

1509
01:11:34.319 --> 01:11:39.159
from a relatively small publisher, and there's your audience. It's

1510
01:11:39.199 --> 01:11:42.319
just kind of spread out and like I said hybrid hybrid,

1511
01:11:44.079 --> 01:11:46.319
like a hybrid career. It's it's as you say, it's

1512
01:11:46.359 --> 01:11:49.279
it's probably you know, it's a it's a more realistic

1513
01:11:49.439 --> 01:11:51.039
way to pursue it.

1514
01:11:51.520 --> 01:11:54.159
And you know, and well and you're you're doing what

1515
01:11:54.199 --> 01:11:55.640
I'm doing. At the at the end of the day,

1516
01:11:55.680 --> 01:11:58.000
it's not like it's this cold, clinical plan of attack.

1517
01:11:58.039 --> 01:11:59.720
We're all we're trying to do this. You know, at

1518
01:11:59.760 --> 01:12:00.399
the end of the day.

1519
01:12:00.520 --> 01:12:00.960
What what what? What?

1520
01:12:01.119 --> 01:12:04.119
What a hybrid writer about is not giving up? You know,

1521
01:12:04.279 --> 01:12:07.439
you're you're you're being creative. You're not You're not stifling

1522
01:12:07.520 --> 01:12:10.439
that creativity. You're not trying to put a tap on

1523
01:12:10.520 --> 01:12:13.159
that passion. You're trying to find different avenues to express

1524
01:12:13.199 --> 01:12:15.319
yourself and get your name it. There's not marketing. It's

1525
01:12:15.479 --> 01:12:18.199
just oh you just this is this is uh, this

1526
01:12:18.359 --> 01:12:19.239
is the global village.

1527
01:12:19.279 --> 01:12:19.760
You know like it.

1528
01:12:19.920 --> 01:12:22.920
It's great. Everyone's got a platform. The downside is everyone's

1529
01:12:22.960 --> 01:12:26.680
got a platform. It's signals the noise, right, Like, how

1530
01:12:26.720 --> 01:12:29.039
do I boost my signal in an organic way that's

1531
01:12:29.079 --> 01:12:31.319
not going to annoy people. It's also some very genuine

1532
01:12:31.439 --> 01:12:33.840
you know, one thing that you can do that that

1533
01:12:34.039 --> 01:12:37.039
that Jeffrey does that I'm trying to do is you

1534
01:12:37.159 --> 01:12:39.680
be yourself. You know, you don't you know, you're writing

1535
01:12:39.760 --> 01:12:42.680
something that's really unique, you know, like it's it has

1536
01:12:42.760 --> 01:12:45.119
to be sort of codified or quantified in some certain

1537
01:12:45.159 --> 01:12:47.600
way to describe it to you know, in a you know,

1538
01:12:47.640 --> 01:12:50.920
in a few sentences. But what the part that's unique

1539
01:12:51.079 --> 01:12:54.079
is yourself. That's the thing that makes it special. So

1540
01:12:54.359 --> 01:12:56.159
it sounds so cheesy to say, well, just be true

1541
01:12:56.159 --> 01:12:58.000
to yourself, be true to your passion, but that's really

1542
01:12:58.079 --> 01:12:59.439
what you need to do if you really want to

1543
01:12:59.479 --> 01:13:01.399
stand out in this world where everyone's trying to do

1544
01:13:01.520 --> 01:13:05.239
stuff and make help stand out, it's stay true to yourself,

1545
01:13:05.279 --> 01:13:07.039
stay true to your heart and have and be confident.

1546
01:13:07.079 --> 01:13:09.199
It's hard. There's a lot of days when I've got

1547
01:13:09.239 --> 01:13:11.439
that the old imposter syndrome and I don't believe in myself.

1548
01:13:12.479 --> 01:13:16.279
But that too does pass, you know, like you just

1549
01:13:16.720 --> 01:13:18.439
going back and just not not give up. As long

1550
01:13:18.439 --> 01:13:20.119
as you're in, as long as you're enjoying yourself. If

1551
01:13:20.159 --> 01:13:22.600
you're not taking any joy from it, feel feed to create,

1552
01:13:22.680 --> 01:13:24.680
like you you don't have to do anything, but if

1553
01:13:24.720 --> 01:13:26.560
you still feel a joy from it, then then don't

1554
01:13:26.600 --> 01:13:26.960
give up.

1555
01:13:27.439 --> 01:13:31.000
Yeah. Absolutely, And there's no better feeling for me to

1556
01:13:31.079 --> 01:13:35.800
have than to have that project going to I get stuck,

1557
01:13:35.840 --> 01:13:37.520
to get kind of like despondent if I don't have

1558
01:13:37.560 --> 01:13:41.039
a project going. And that's the joy that you speak of,

1559
01:13:41.199 --> 01:13:44.840
you know, having that that once you're when you're we're

1560
01:13:44.840 --> 01:13:47.199
in that mode, when you're in that mindset, it's just

1561
01:13:47.520 --> 01:13:51.880
such a good feeling, and it's indescribable and comparable.

1562
01:13:52.720 --> 01:13:54.199
Tell me, tell me when I'm talking about how how

1563
01:13:54.359 --> 01:13:56.359
like the state of the world and stuff that I

1564
01:13:56.439 --> 01:13:59.479
was going through with my family, my wife's family, like

1565
01:13:59.680 --> 01:14:01.760
author friend who passed away earlier this year, Like, it's

1566
01:14:01.800 --> 01:14:03.800
just it's been it's been a lousy start to the year.

1567
01:14:04.159 --> 01:14:06.000
And I just decided that, you know what, I just

1568
01:14:06.560 --> 01:14:08.960
it's okay to be upset, okay to be depressed. And

1569
01:14:09.079 --> 01:14:10.760
that was the ten that actually drove me to finish

1570
01:14:10.800 --> 01:14:12.760
this novella, this Black Lens, so that I've been chipping

1571
01:14:12.760 --> 01:14:14.119
away at for eight For eight months, I hadn't really

1572
01:14:14.119 --> 01:14:17.159
written anything new. I've been busy, I've been doing deadlines

1573
01:14:17.199 --> 01:14:18.880
for other things, and I just hadn't really felt like it,

1574
01:14:18.960 --> 01:14:20.479
Which is fine. If you don't feel like you don't

1575
01:14:20.560 --> 01:14:22.520
do it, but I ended up writing like ten thousand

1576
01:14:22.560 --> 01:14:24.680
words last week. I finished the damn thing. Got a

1577
01:14:24.760 --> 01:14:26.800
really great call from my agent on Friday. But something

1578
01:14:26.840 --> 01:14:28.479
I can't even talk about. It could end up being

1579
01:14:28.520 --> 01:14:31.199
a huge, maybe large. I don't want to I don't

1580
01:14:31.199 --> 01:14:32.640
want to tease, but it could be like one of

1581
01:14:32.640 --> 01:14:35.359
the biggest things happening for my writing career if it happens.

1582
01:14:36.000 --> 01:14:37.680
I don't want to jinx it. But it was like,

1583
01:14:37.840 --> 01:14:39.199
it was cool and it was exciting, but I was

1584
01:14:39.239 --> 01:14:40.680
even I was at the moment, I was more excited

1585
01:14:40.720 --> 01:14:43.439
but finally finishing something, and I wanted to finish it

1586
01:14:43.520 --> 01:14:45.960
because the next thing I'm working on is another Black

1587
01:14:46.039 --> 01:14:48.359
Leans novella, but it's a Felix Friend one, and it's

1588
01:14:48.520 --> 01:14:51.960
the Bridge Book. That's a bridge novella between Sycamore and

1589
01:14:52.079 --> 01:14:54.600
Miss Paranormal, which is the second Felix Rand novel. You

1590
01:14:54.640 --> 01:14:56.720
don't need to have read that to understand it that

1591
01:14:56.800 --> 01:14:59.439
they still functions as a standalone. It really sort of

1592
01:14:59.520 --> 01:15:03.000
explored Felix's fear of the dark that he sort of

1593
01:15:03.039 --> 01:15:06.520
acquires and sort of gets over in Sycamore. But it's

1594
01:15:06.520 --> 01:15:10.560
sort of like my my last word on that experience.

1595
01:15:10.640 --> 01:15:12.920
From Sycamore, and it had a great title, whe I

1596
01:15:12.920 --> 01:15:14.319
think is a great title that I've had for a

1597
01:15:14.399 --> 01:15:17.279
long time because it's sort of a reference to it's

1598
01:15:17.279 --> 01:15:20.399
a literary reference, but it's also pure black Lands, and

1599
01:15:20.920 --> 01:15:23.319
I don't mind announcing it right here. So it's going

1600
01:15:23.359 --> 01:15:28.800
to be called The Sun Never Rises, so, which is

1601
01:15:28.880 --> 01:15:32.239
just pure Blacklands to me. So again mean that it's

1602
01:15:32.279 --> 01:15:34.199
again it's a standalone story, and in my mind I

1603
01:15:34.279 --> 01:15:36.640
picture it as well if I still wanted to do

1604
01:15:36.720 --> 01:15:38.680
these old Felix Rand chap books, which is how I

1605
01:15:38.760 --> 01:15:40.840
started writing the black Lands books, that's what this one

1606
01:15:40.880 --> 01:15:43.600
would be. It would be a black Lands chap book

1607
01:15:43.840 --> 01:15:46.600
that fits in neatly between Sycamore and Book two. Again,

1608
01:15:46.640 --> 01:15:49.640
you don't need to read it to understand. It's not

1609
01:15:49.680 --> 01:15:52.319
a prerequisite, but I just I love, I love having

1610
01:15:52.359 --> 01:15:54.439
these in between stories that tell their own little story

1611
01:15:55.000 --> 01:15:57.600
references this and ushers the way to the next one.

1612
01:15:57.720 --> 01:15:59.000
But you can read it out of order. You don't

1613
01:15:59.000 --> 01:16:00.520
need to read it at all to to enjoy the

1614
01:16:00.560 --> 01:16:03.279
next book. But that's something that's got me excited this

1615
01:16:03.439 --> 01:16:07.960
year about about going and keeping writing, even amid everything

1616
01:16:08.000 --> 01:16:09.840
that's going on in the world right now in our

1617
01:16:09.880 --> 01:16:10.760
country and everything.

1618
01:16:12.520 --> 01:16:16.520
Yeah, it's it's kind of scary right now. I'd be

1619
01:16:16.600 --> 01:16:18.920
remiss though. I mean, there's things that can keep us

1620
01:16:18.960 --> 01:16:23.159
happy and like reading and writing, but I'd be remiss

1621
01:16:23.199 --> 01:16:26.439
if I didn't welcome our new guest. Who who jumps

1622
01:16:26.479 --> 01:16:27.520
home into your lap.

1623
01:16:29.119 --> 01:16:31.760
And is like promptly went right to sleep? Who is

1624
01:16:32.399 --> 01:16:33.439
who is that there with you?

1625
01:16:33.960 --> 01:16:36.600
This is Barnabas And actually I'm surprised. I apologize for

1626
01:16:36.640 --> 01:16:40.600
the little cameo appearance, but oh no, that's fine here sooner.

1627
01:16:40.760 --> 01:16:42.640
Usually it's like he hears me going on on a

1628
01:16:42.720 --> 01:16:46.039
call and he's like, oh, there's will be there, I

1629
01:16:46.159 --> 01:16:48.279
need to appearance.

1630
01:16:48.439 --> 01:16:51.000
So I love just how casually he walked up.

1631
01:16:51.079 --> 01:16:53.119
I saw him come in, and then he just jumps

1632
01:16:53.199 --> 01:16:56.520
up and jumps on your lap and uh and then

1633
01:16:56.640 --> 01:16:57.800
promptly goes to sleep.

1634
01:16:58.600 --> 01:17:01.359
Well we've been we've been super close to our cats

1635
01:17:01.520 --> 01:17:03.680
again more and more sad this here. One of our

1636
01:17:03.720 --> 01:17:06.199
cats passed away a couple of weeks ago. Goes. He

1637
01:17:06.279 --> 01:17:08.079
was our youngest cat. He was only six years old,

1638
01:17:08.119 --> 01:17:11.600
and he just suddenly got really horrible like kidney issues

1639
01:17:11.960 --> 01:17:14.600
which were unforeseen. He was sick on Sunday we had

1640
01:17:14.640 --> 01:17:17.079
to put him down by Friday, and we're we're still

1641
01:17:17.079 --> 01:17:18.800
pretty devastated. It was only a couple of weeks ago,

1642
01:17:20.159 --> 01:17:21.640
and I think we'd just be complete rex if it

1643
01:17:21.680 --> 01:17:23.279
wasn't for our other little guys who have sort of

1644
01:17:23.359 --> 01:17:25.760
rallied the cats. You know, I think all animals, wedding

1645
01:17:25.800 --> 01:17:28.760
cats especially can sort of sense it. So they've just

1646
01:17:28.800 --> 01:17:31.520
been really around and it's just it's been tough.

1647
01:17:31.600 --> 01:17:31.720
Man.

1648
01:17:31.800 --> 01:17:34.000
It's like it's only just like its February now, but

1649
01:17:34.079 --> 01:17:35.840
it's been it's been a tough start to the year.

1650
01:17:36.439 --> 01:17:38.520
I'm I was really thankful to be talking to you

1651
01:17:38.600 --> 01:17:41.840
guys tonight because I think sort of hanging out in

1652
01:17:41.920 --> 01:17:43.920
my dark office by myself is what I don't need

1653
01:17:44.079 --> 01:17:45.279
right now. I need to I need to hang out

1654
01:17:45.279 --> 01:17:48.359
and people talk to my friends. So this has been fantastic.

1655
01:17:49.039 --> 01:17:49.199
You know.

1656
01:17:49.600 --> 01:17:52.840
It was really really good for me too, because the

1657
01:17:52.960 --> 01:17:55.039
week my weekend was a mixture of really good things

1658
01:17:55.079 --> 01:17:59.079
happening and really bad things happening, and uh and you know,

1659
01:17:59.520 --> 01:18:01.960
there was a a period today where I was like,

1660
01:18:02.039 --> 01:18:03.680
I think I'm just going to cancel because I just

1661
01:18:04.000 --> 01:18:06.399
can't get my head out of this bad space. And

1662
01:18:06.479 --> 01:18:09.439
then I went to the questions I had prepared for you, Jeffrey,

1663
01:18:09.439 --> 01:18:10.760
and I was like, you know what, this is pulling

1664
01:18:10.800 --> 01:18:12.960
me out of that, and this is making everything better.

1665
01:18:13.119 --> 01:18:15.199
So I'm just going to keep's going to keep going.

1666
01:18:15.279 --> 01:18:17.600
Yet I always sure my wife'svoice in my head, because

1667
01:18:17.600 --> 01:18:19.880
whenever i'm the same thing I'm not. I'm not anti social,

1668
01:18:20.000 --> 01:18:23.479
but I'm definitely a homebody. And when I think about

1669
01:18:23.520 --> 01:18:26.000
not socializing, it's if my wife isn't telling me directly,

1670
01:18:26.039 --> 01:18:28.079
I'm maybe hearing her voice in her head because she's

1671
01:18:28.119 --> 01:18:29.920
way smarter than I am and she always gives me

1672
01:18:29.960 --> 01:18:31.760
the best of I said, no, no, you're gonna do that.

1673
01:18:31.880 --> 01:18:33.159
And so it was the same thing, is that if

1674
01:18:33.359 --> 01:18:35.079
if I didn't feel like doing this tonight, I obviously

1675
01:18:35.119 --> 01:18:36.319
I didn't want to let you down. I didn't want

1676
01:18:36.319 --> 01:18:38.560
to let jeff down, but I went. I looked at

1677
01:18:38.600 --> 01:18:40.560
my own notes for The New God, which I had

1678
01:18:40.560 --> 01:18:42.840
taken while I was reading the book, and I was like, oh,

1679
01:18:42.920 --> 01:18:44.079
I'm really looking forward to talking.

1680
01:18:44.199 --> 01:18:46.680
Yeah, exactly what happened to me too. I was like,

1681
01:18:46.760 --> 01:18:49.159
this is gonna be awesome. Why am I thinking about canceling?

1682
01:18:50.520 --> 01:18:50.960
Wake up?

1683
01:18:51.039 --> 01:18:55.359
Man, it's good lead those distractions absolutely.

1684
01:18:56.760 --> 01:18:56.960
Well.

1685
01:18:57.479 --> 01:19:00.399
I want to thank both Jeffrey and Ian for coming

1686
01:19:00.479 --> 01:19:06.359
on and discussing the New God and Jeffrey before we go,

1687
01:19:06.640 --> 01:19:08.880
Is there anything that you got coming out soon that

1688
01:19:08.960 --> 01:19:09.800
we can look forward to.

1689
01:19:10.680 --> 01:19:13.760
I have another book coming from Weird House Press called

1690
01:19:13.840 --> 01:19:18.199
The Not The and that's in a series that it's

1691
01:19:18.319 --> 01:19:22.199
related to Punktown. It's in this Punktown universe, but it

1692
01:19:22.319 --> 01:19:26.039
doesn't take place in Punktown. It's it's it takes place

1693
01:19:26.560 --> 01:19:32.199
at the with at a time where the human the

1694
01:19:32.399 --> 01:19:36.800
humans of Earth, are trying to establish teleportation, long distance teleportation,

1695
01:19:37.600 --> 01:19:40.119
and the Punkdown stories are the results of of the

1696
01:19:40.479 --> 01:19:44.279
rewards of the long distance teleportation. But I've written three

1697
01:19:45.000 --> 01:19:53.560
novels in this kind of side series that revolve around

1698
01:19:53.600 --> 01:19:56.279
a character named Captain Robert Fusselli. The first was The

1699
01:19:56.359 --> 01:20:00.479
Exploded Soul that came out last year from Weird Press.

1700
01:20:01.399 --> 01:20:03.600
This new book, The Not is to follow up to that. Again,

1701
01:20:03.800 --> 01:20:05.880
you don't have to read one to enjoy the other.

1702
01:20:06.000 --> 01:20:08.479
But The Knot is the second in the series. And

1703
01:20:08.560 --> 01:20:12.000
then there's a third, longer novel that the Pulp's just

1704
01:20:12.039 --> 01:20:14.479
going to be looking at, and so that would be

1705
01:20:14.560 --> 01:20:16.800
the next book to come out, is the not. It's

1706
01:20:16.880 --> 01:20:20.640
a science fiction horror blend adjacent.

1707
01:20:20.159 --> 01:20:23.039
To Puntwent Awesome and is there a release date for

1708
01:20:23.119 --> 01:20:24.680
that or I'm not sure?

1709
01:20:24.880 --> 01:20:26.439
It should be pretty fairly soon.

1710
01:20:26.359 --> 01:20:30.159
Though, Okay awesome and Ian, do you have anything that's

1711
01:20:30.159 --> 01:20:32.079
coming out relatively soon that you can talk about.

1712
01:20:32.960 --> 01:20:35.199
I've got two looks coming out this year. The one

1713
01:20:35.239 --> 01:20:38.239
that'll be out sooner, I'm thinking this spring or somewhere.

1714
01:20:38.279 --> 01:20:40.600
I can't actually say. It hasn't been announced, but it's

1715
01:20:40.600 --> 01:20:43.760
with a really cool small press that we all know.

1716
01:20:44.079 --> 01:20:46.800
I can't I can't say anything yet. The signature sheets

1717
01:20:46.880 --> 01:20:50.720
just delivered yesterday. I can tell you that there's an

1718
01:20:50.720 --> 01:20:53.840
awesome introduction by jem of Files. I think that's saying

1719
01:20:54.239 --> 01:20:57.119
that's the nominal because I love her, I love her work,

1720
01:20:57.760 --> 01:21:00.119
and I've known her for a very long time, so

1721
01:21:00.159 --> 01:21:03.159
it was a real, real honor enjoy to have her

1722
01:21:03.279 --> 01:21:05.920
introduced this book. It's it's a standalone or a novel.

1723
01:21:06.920 --> 01:21:09.560
It's not a Blacklands book, although I would say maybe

1724
01:21:09.680 --> 01:21:12.720
there's connections. It's definitely not a black Lands book. But

1725
01:21:12.760 --> 01:21:14.359
I would say the same way that sort of Stephen

1726
01:21:14.439 --> 01:21:16.840
King has this kind of shared universe, and maybe there

1727
01:21:16.880 --> 01:21:19.119
are little inquens of say, like a dark Tower story

1728
01:21:19.720 --> 01:21:21.720
in a book that's not a Dark Tower book. I

1729
01:21:21.760 --> 01:21:23.880
would say that maybe there are kind of connections to

1730
01:21:23.960 --> 01:21:26.560
the black Lands. Again, you don't need to to know

1731
01:21:26.720 --> 01:21:30.439
them to enjoy it. And then later this year I've

1732
01:21:30.520 --> 01:21:34.760
got the reprint of Supernaungeal Tales coming out from Cemetery Dance,

1733
01:21:35.359 --> 01:21:37.640
and the hope is that between that one and the

1734
01:21:38.119 --> 01:21:40.199
official book too, I would like to get this black

1735
01:21:40.279 --> 01:21:43.199
Lands novella out, this Jerry Baldwin one, with another Jerry

1736
01:21:43.239 --> 01:21:48.279
Baldwin novella, sort of a Haunted House real estate stories.

1737
01:21:49.760 --> 01:21:50.960
I would like to collect them as sort of like

1738
01:21:51.000 --> 01:21:53.520
a double built, like a black Lands double feature. You know,

1739
01:21:53.600 --> 01:21:55.560
it's just a short book, you know, a little a little,

1740
01:21:55.880 --> 01:21:59.520
a little tastier to hold you over until Felix's novel

1741
01:21:59.560 --> 01:22:02.560
two come out. And because it's real estate team, because

1742
01:22:02.600 --> 01:22:05.960
it's haunted houses, I'm thinking I would like to call

1743
01:22:06.079 --> 01:22:09.439
it if you died here, you'd be home by now.

1744
01:22:09.720 --> 01:22:13.359
So I'd like to play on those real estate ads. Really,

1745
01:22:13.439 --> 01:22:15.039
if you lived here, you'd be home by now. So

1746
01:22:15.119 --> 01:22:20.680
I was like, well, it's really haunted. It's cool right there,

1747
01:22:20.800 --> 01:22:24.520
that's the perfect what happens. But yeah, that's that's what

1748
01:22:24.560 --> 01:22:25.479
I've got cooked this year.

1749
01:22:26.079 --> 01:22:29.359
All right, awesome, Well, I I want to thank everyone

1750
01:22:29.399 --> 01:22:35.359
who came and uh, I want to thank everyone who

1751
01:22:35.840 --> 01:22:39.199
is going to be here in the future and listening in.

1752
01:22:39.760 --> 01:22:41.960
And I want to thank Jeffrey, thank you for so

1753
01:22:42.119 --> 01:22:46.800
much for for coming on and prespising all this, and

1754
01:22:46.960 --> 01:22:49.279
thank you Ian for coming along too. I'm glad this

1755
01:22:49.439 --> 01:22:53.479
idea worked out and that it was I think quite successful.

1756
01:22:53.520 --> 01:22:56.119
I had a lot of fun and it's really.

1757
01:22:56.279 --> 01:22:58.239
I'm glad we can honor jeff and just get the

1758
01:22:58.359 --> 01:23:02.000
insight on this book. It's a take it up immediately,

1759
01:23:02.640 --> 01:23:02.960
thank you.

1760
01:23:03.039 --> 01:23:05.960
So much and make it my I think I'm gonna

1761
01:23:05.960 --> 01:23:07.159
float away shortly.

1762
01:23:08.920 --> 01:23:12.239
And Jeffrey, You're welcome to come back anytime, and I

1763
01:23:12.359 --> 01:23:14.800
might even I might even ring you up when when

1764
01:23:14.880 --> 01:23:17.920
your new releases comes out and we'll talk again if you're.

1765
01:23:17.800 --> 01:23:20.479
Interested, definitely be all right.

1766
01:23:20.640 --> 01:23:23.920
Thanks everyone, and we will catch you all again next time.

1767
01:23:24.520 --> 01:23:26.000
All right, take care, Thanks again.

1768
01:23:30.720 --> 01:23:30.760
H