From the Continental Singers to Focus on the Family: Chuck Bolte’s Story

Welcome to the Wayne Watson Podcast where Grammy nominee and multiple dub award-winning artist Wayne Watson engages in lively conversation with remarkable people from every walk of life. Artists to help care professionals athletes and leaders to everyday believers whose stories reflect the power of faith at work in the world. Join us as we go beyond the spotlight and into the heart of what it means to live with purpose and conviction. Diving into real conversations about the moments that shape us, the faith that sustains us and the God who inspires it all. Now, here's your host, Wayne Watson. Hello again. Thanks for joining me today. I wanted to introduce my guest for this episode. His name's Chuck Bolte. Old old friend, I met him when I was a teenager with the continental singers, great stories, just a great person and I kicked it off, jabbing him a little bit about following the legend, Sandy Patty. So that's where the conversation kicks off. I hope you enjoy it. You have one of the all-time great female vocalists, our friend Sandy Patty. I couldn't think of anybody better to follow up this with me. Somebody has not known equally, equally legendary in his own mind. My old old friend, I'm turning off everything. My old old friend Chuck Bolte. And when I say old old, I mean, I think I met you. Would I have met you in 1970 perhaps? No, I wouldn't be doing it in 1970. Tell me what you were doing. I was still in college. I was still in college and had actually was believing that I was majoring in earth science. I was going to teach me earth science. Yeah, that's right. I had gotten a call from some of the continentals about a group that were starting called the German. They didn't have a name yet, but it was German. I had people. And they asked me if I would be interested in auditioning. And I knew if I auditioned, I would get it. I just had enough confidence. I would give it. And I knew that if I if I got it, I would leave and never go back to college and I told myself I was a new Christian. And I believe the God wanted me to get my degrees. So I said, I've said to God, and if you want me to do this, the opportunity to arise next year. So I graduated just for graduated. I got a phone call and the same thing happened. I never had to audition. I don't know how it happened, but I just got in and took over crazy. Now we both know why that you didn't have to audition. I don't know who's all degrees. So I don't know. Actually, I didn't know when I met you. I mean, was it 70? When did you start with continentals? Now, I think I went in 70 in the summer of 70 with John the late great John Lee. I had auditioned when I was 14, I think. I think the age was 16. You want to be 16 now. So maybe audition was 15 because in 1969, I was playing in the Dixie League World Series. Well, a little baseball is not little league. It was called Dixie League. We couldn't call it that anymore. But yeah, that would have been 1969 because I still have the glove that I use at the World Series. And you know, the World Series was in Louisiana. It was in Japan or it was your world. It was our world, man. And so that was 69. So it must have been 70. And we know, I auditioned for Byron Spreadlin. And we got a letter from Camphoria. My dad, this is, we'd never heard the word cam. The name cam. So I remember my dad responded, dear Miss Foria. You know, and today Cameron, yeah, when's the movies are Cameron? Diaz? Yeah, they're guys named Cameron and girls and cameras. Anyway, he said, dear Miss Foria, we'd be around for our son to participate. And I went to the next year with John Lee. And I was just going to do the little $700 US tour. My parents said, no, this is a chance to go to Europe for like, well, 100 bucks or something. Well, that was huge. That was huge. You bought a money back there. Huge amount. Yes. Yes. And I guess I just remember associating you. That's not about me. Let's talk about you. What about what do you think about me? I just associate my early days with that organization with you because you were so present. I'll just tell the listeners, this guy has the greatest laugh, legendary laugh and legendary heart. And that's what I remember. So I remember associating those early days with you being there. So I don't know what near that would have been. Who preceded you at Jeremiah people? Some of my listeners were remembered. Ron and Bill Tusson, author of Bill Tusson, but he was a piano player and songwriter. He and I wrote a couple of songs. And Ron and his brother, they were the ones that really started it. There's a guy named Larry. And he was in the group and a couple of girls were in it. And a girl named Jeannie choose African American gal that ended up being on my tour my first year, which was the second year of Jeremiah people. And I got to tell you that for me was an experience because I was in Colorado. And I had a small, small folk group. That was back in the folk group days. Yeah. When I came out to California, I never, I've been to California one time before for a camperscared state training. So to me, it was like that was like, I'm sure you experienced the two going to California, holy cow. I believe another world. And I got there and we recorded it. Sunset studios down at Sunset and Vine upstairs. I'm walking up the stairs for a first. So I'm going to record you session, which I can't believe I'm going up the stairs and walking down the stairs is Delaris. And Delaris was that was before her movie or TV debut. She was a jazz singer as you know, just an incredible singer. I thought, okay, I have arrived. I'm recording the same studio that Delaris recorded it. There is no greater thing in my life. This is it. I've achieved it. I'm not top. That's it. You know, so early. What else am I going to do? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She's the one that says, well, tell them who else? I mean, the list of people that went through Sunset studios, not only to mention you and me were people like sweetwood Mac and you name it. I bet everybody that anyone could think of back in those days went through sunset and recorded a week. And we always recorded late because the race for less. Sure. Oh, yeah, yeah. We're going at 10 o'clock. Our record will three in the morning. Well, I remember thinking if I could just go sit and watch a recording session, just, yeah, I'd just like to be a fly on a wall and watch. Yeah. I felt the same way you did. I'm good. I can go do whatever real serious to do. I'm from my family, but this is it. Okay. So what was the name of that album? It's such a cheesy look. You know, it was hand-room. That camera said some phrase from one of our songs. It was, yeah, really. I mean, it was look like I wouldn't buy it just because it looked like crap. But it wouldn't like the spinal tap black album though. Was it? No, no, that was 90's. No, that was nice. That was nice. That was, that was tasteful. That was tasteful. Yeah. Well, there was, there was a continental album that was mostly black called Soul. Oh, yeah. Remember that? I do. That's kind of a gray, straight-led song. It was getting soul on the floor. Yeah. On the right in the middle. That was it. That was it. Yeah. That was it. Who came up with the name Jeremiah, people? I think Cam did. I, because we always used to introduce it as Jeremiah, the one who tore down the walls and then rebuilt them. And basically, because the whole point of Jeremiah, people was to use Sir Cat satirical humor to kind of assault the church for where it was at and then provide healing for it. Yeah. And it was really, at the time, was really unique. I mean, there was nobody doing, there was a eighth trucking company and some others that had just sketches. It used sketches and music. There was a group in San Francisco that Cam saw that you did a similar thing with a secular group and he liked the idea. That's where he got the idea. It was sort of irreverent for the time. It really was. But, but people responded. They laughed. And except if you're in a Nazarene church, they didn't laugh. You know, those Nazarene's back in the 70s. You didn't dare laugh, boy. It was flat. I just, I'm coming from where I came from, a little small town Baptist church. I just thought it was edgy as heck. And I thought, man, this is, I hope I don't get in trouble for listening to this or, but you know what? I got it. I got it early on. I got what you were doing because I knew you and the guys that were around you. Did you come through elementary school high school as the clown? Well, to some degree, what happened was, what, when I was not raised as a Christian and I was in high school and was the head of a, we had what was called a cabinet, which was the student body government that ran really was actually really responsible for running a lot of things. And I was the secretary of morale, secretary of morale. And I, which meant I did think back then they had required pet rallies before football games. The whole school would go into the auditorium and do a template. And I was in charge of producing it. That's where my production started. Learning how to produce shows. And then I went off to college, she went off to college. And before I went to college, she introduced me to a friend of hers who, who was actually madly in love with her. And fortunately, he loved the Lord more than her. And he, I remember going down his basement, his basement. And he pulled out the four spiritual laws. I don't know if you're people will know what that is, but it's a little book. Yeah. Yeah. Camps Crews say put out. It talks about four steps. And it's first time I've ever heard the plan of salvation. At the end of it, you, yeah. A person who presents it says, does, it offers a little prayer and says, does this prayer express the desire of your heart? And he read it to me and I said, no, to it. Okay. He said, well, I mean, give me a couple books. He gave me a couple books, both by Thirth's written hour. One called, how to be a Christian without being really just, but they were both very simple, not insulting, but simple. And they really opened my eyes. And I remember one night I had been on a date with this girl. And I was sitting at the end of her street at one of those trip lights where you trip it and it'll turn green after you trip it. And I sat there and it did not trip. And there was no, it's midnight. There's no cars. But I'm one of these guys that I'm not going to break the law. Yeah. So I said that I thought, you know, if I don't pray that little prayer, I'm never going to get to this light. So actually, I prayed that prayer at the stoplight. And that was when I stepped across to my life. And nothing happened. I mean, I didn't, the skies didn't separate. I didn't feel anything. But I didn't tell anyone, which was a mistake. One of the things I prompted this was I had been on a date with her before. And I never, ever asked somebody to use old. I never told a girl I loved her because I didn't know what love was. I just smart enough to know not what love was. One night I pulled over so long side of the road and I said, you know, I really love you. And she looked at me and said something effective. You know, I can't love you completely because you're not a Christian. I went, what the heck does that mean? You know, I'm a me tarzan, you Jane. I love you. But that's what she introduced me to her friend who prompted sharing. And I became a Christian after that. Then I went to college and got involved with campus crusade. Actually, it was a great experience in college. I started a group called 33 AD. How about that? Uh, 33 AD. That was, do you know what that is? So I went to college and formed a singing group after about a year of being involved, called 33 AD, which is a folk group. And I did some, some humor in there too. So that was part of where that was developed. And then I just, I told you I got recruited by J.P. and went with Cotton Ellsson was, I was with Cotton Ells 16 years. Yeah, on the staff. Yeah, on the staff. I, what I was, was I produced all the Jeremiah people stuff while I was there and produced the albums and produced the live show. And then I also took over international and went and sit up in office. We had an office in England. I went over there and I had to actually, I don't remember Ron, Ron Kennedy, Ron Kennedy. He was the head of, I had to fire him. Cam set cam. I'm 26 or seven years old. Never been overseas. And he sent me over to fire our director. Okay, what was the speech? Because I've heard that recently. I've never flown internationally. I landed. It's like holy cow. I'm going to love it. I get to London and the guy named Jeff Jeff, uh, green man. He, I said, so where is the board meeting? Because we're going to board meeting. That's where I was going to happen. He goes, I'm sorry, the cast of the board meeting. I said, I wait, I flew over here just for the board meeting. He goes, I know, but we had to cancel it because Ron was gone and we just couldn't do it without Ron. I said, yeah, you're right, you can't do it without Ron. Where is Ron? I said, I need to get on a train. I need to go where Ron is. And I said, is there anybody there with me? Yeah, but chairman of the board was there. It's perfect. So I get on a train. It's winter. I go up to some place in central England. And get off the train, find Ron, sit down with him and the guy and tell Ron what's happening. And basically, I explained it. I said, Ron, this is over your head. I was 27 years old for one six. I'm a firefighter. I never hired anybody, a little firefighter, other than JP members. I basically explained to him that we had to make a shift. I kept, I was smart enough to have the other guy there with me. That was chairman of the board and he just sat quietly. So then I went back over and the guys read me out. It's like, how, you know, I can't believe that you Americans do such a dastardly thing to such a lovely man was no bag. The light changing strip. He said, was it one of those strips? It didn't change us. You ran over it with the car, one of those strips. You talk about stop light and you're, oh, no, no, not a strip. I trippy out. You drive over it and it trips the, yeah, yeah. Well, that's what we had. We had one stop light in my hometown. There was a strip of metal. And if you go over it, the light would change. So we, the most mischievous we would get in our little legalistic fear of God existence was go to step on that strip and make it stop the trucks that came. So when you prayed the prayer, is that when the light changed? Actually, it did. That's weird. So I figured, well, I said, that's a real deal. Well, we're the four spiritual laws for a generation that may have never heard of them. Well, I help. I love you. And as a wonderful man, there's a separation between you and God. Right. Separation is bridged by Jesus and across. Right. And you need to accept him into your life too. Yeah. It feels simple, gospel. Okay. When you told this girl, you remember, when you told her, I love you. And she said, I can't love you because you're not a Christian. You remember, George Costanza, in the episode told his girlfriend, he was hard of hearing. He's, he, her name was, I, you know, I can't remember what I had for lunch, but I remember worthless stuff like this. He told her, yeah, her name was Sienna. And Jerry told the Kramer that he's dating a crayon. That was how he, how he was. I remember the crayola box with the color Sienna. But he said, Sienna, I love you. And she turned to him and said, I'm hungry. Let's get something to eat. So did you write the material for JP? No, I wrote some of it. We hired a guy named Dennis Shippy. Great talent writer. And he came in and we used to have our, rehearsal camp up a big bear at a place called Seaholly Lodge. It was a dump, but it was perfect for us because we got it cheap and had it, I mean, had everything. So Susie would come up and cook for us. And we didn't have, Seah was born the first year. And so she's a little baby. We were there for two weeks to write, to do the whole thing, write, create, produce the whole show. And Dennis was the, was the writer of the sketches. And I would rewrite them and adapt them for live performance. One thing I wrote a song called Turnback, which is a very unmemorable song, just you would never, ever think of recording this thing. But some group down in South America liked it. And they record, I got to hear it in Spanish. So he wrote the music up until then he left. And I have all kinds of stories with JP, which I can't tell and take too long. But I mean, incredibly, stress draft first year was unbelievable. I can't tell it. Sorry, we'll come back, we'll come back to him because we may cut it to two parts. I mean, I love the stories. I remember you were talking about rehearsal camp. I remember the first time I ever went to Los Angeles, I flew from Monroe, Louisiana. It's a big city to my little town of 1500. And I flew from Monroe, Louisiana. And I don't know if we flew directly to LA or not. I can't imagine what we did. We probably went through Dallas. But landed in LA. And I had never seen smog. Oh, yeah, in smog period, much less brown. I mean, not a hazy brown, a big, you could taste it. We descended through that cloud and landed and they drove us out to Azusa Pacific College. Right up next to a little mountain range. They said it was notorious for capturing the smog against them. That's right. He was holding it. And I remember the feeling and you could literally taste it and put it in your throat. And it was an experience to go there. Fortunately, that's all cleaned up now. I mean, yeah. So nice. Give me a couple of the best road stories. And then do you have a worse memory? My little boy asked me, Daddy, what was your most embarrassing? Like, uh, got that one. Let me start with that one. What was the worst one? Most embarrassing? That's the most embarrassing. I don't know if the most embarrassing is the worst story or not. But it's the funniest. Okay. So I was performing on stage and pretty good size crowd. I had a kind of red, white and blue pattern shirt on. And this little kid in the front row kept looking up and smiling, going, saluting. I looked at it. I was like, what is he doing? He kept saluting at a point in the lap and point in the lap. Looked down. My shirt was hanging out of my fly. It looked like a little flag hanging out of my fly. So I had to turn around. Of course, you have a microphone. You turn around and you zip up. You got the microphone. Asked me and I was zipper go over the thing. That was just, that was all yourself. As far as embarrassing, we were one guy. We introduced us in Pittsburgh. And we always had a mic set up for chairs. They were low. They were all SM58. They were all SM58 is still the best microphone. 70 years later, still the best microphone out there. He is tattooed right. Absolutely. I played at the museum of Christian and gospel music in Nashville a couple of weeks ago when we had wired 58s. And while it sounds better, they still cost about a hundred bucks. So anyhow, they were down like this and this guy comes out and I said, here's what you need to do, didn't it? Here's what you need to say. He goes, okay, I'll do that. He walks out, he walks out, looks at the microphone, gets down on his knees. And he says, can you know how to raise a microphone? Cut down his knees. And he used to sell his knees. I can't raise. I came out laughing so hard. It was unbelievable. Those are things that happened in the public and it's on those two, like almost any tour, the bus stuff or at the time, you guys probably stayed in homes, right? You didn't say in hotels. Are you kidding me? Of course we stayed in the homes. That's always stayed in. And what you hoped for is that the people wouldn't take you and put you in their master bedroom with their single bed and you're staying with another guy. That happened way too many times. I remember walking into one house there and I walked in and I thought, holy cow, it was old house in Florida. And the place smelled like somebody had run a German shepherd a hundred miles, put it in the closet and shut the door and let it die. That's what it smelled like. It was discussion. Oh, it was awful. And I had to stay up. I stayed upstairs for cockroaches, ever upstairs. And so they had two beds. So I went in this house and went upstairs. It was a filthy house. There were just two single beds in this room, nothing in the room, nothing, just two beds. And I set my suitcase down and got up in the morning, took my thing, took my toothpaste and I took my toothbrush out. And I went to brush my teeth and I looked at the holder. And here was a cockroach halfway through that open hole. Let's it air out. Crawling, it had been mulling my head by gas. That was such a lovely place to stay. Just one of many, many home stories that I have. And you're after a concert, you gather down and they introduce you to the people that are taking you from. And in their car, you just pray that it's something civil. Oh, yeah. In fact, you drive through these really nice neighborhoods. Yes. They are. They let it be here. Let it be here. We walk into one house and it was walked into the hallway. It's the left was the kitchen. Just filled with dirty dishes. Just high-poms. Just terrible. That was the night that we pulled back the covers. They had and changed the sheets. So we slept on top of the bed, which I'm sure was just as far. You didn't want a black light in there. No, you definitely didn't. Let's just take a let's take a minute here and write people that it doesn't take a lot to be hospitable. Whenever you go visit someone's home, even if it's just to go to dinner and it looks like they forgot you were coming. And not only forgot you were coming, but forgot to wash the dishes from two weeks ago. It just boggles my mind. Yeah. And it makes a gift. It's not like you or any of us ever expected to be treated. I mean, whenever we would get a night in a hotel, which was maybe once over a course of a tour. Yeah, that's right. It was just so so good. Heaven. It was heaven. You'd come across the people that really, really wanted to take good care of you. And you had a great place to sleep and it was clean and they were nice and they didn't want to stay up to most of them wanted to stay up to one or two a.m. and talk to you, right? Yeah. Ask y'all kinds of questions about your life, which you'd ask 50,000 times before. Yeah. And you told a lot of those stories in the concert anyways. And the ones that were sensitive will just let you look. I know you're tired because yeah, that was a long day. You get up and roll onto the bus at six, seven, eight o'clock. Of course, you had a great lunch somewhere in the middle of the day, right? Well, we had on Jeremiah people, the killer of Jeremiah people. We would do three concerts, three in a day, a morning in elementary school, an afternoon at a junior high, and evening at a high school all one day. And we had to pack and load and set up three times ourselves, just the seven of us. It was unbelievable. How many days a week? How many days a week did you do that? Well, in Texas, we did it for a full week. I mean, you talk about pooped. Oh, like hell. But back then, you know, back then you could do high schools and share the gospel. Sure, in Texas, in Texas, you could at least. Yes. You know, people wonder, what's happened? Well, how we got in here? And you know, you've been in the heat of a lot of it. Nothing that the adversary cooks up is quick. It's a slow burn or a slow cooling. Like the old frog in the hot water pot thing. It's exactly what it is. Yeah, it's just a slow erosion. A slow erosion. Yeah, let's talk about God. Let's certainly talk about Jesus. Let's talk about God in the class or in public. Somewhere along the line, you transitioned from Jeremiah people and continental singers organization to focus on the family. So that puts you in a completely different battlefield. What was that? How did that come about? What was that like? Well, first of all, my life has been composed of four different professional opportunities. This is the second. The second is the focus. What happened was Mike Trout had been working at light records, who we recorded with Ralph Carve Michaels company. He'd worked there and I got to know him there. He ended up going to focus. And then they started doing radio dramas. So Mike knew my background. So he hired me to produce a couple of radio dramas and act in them. And that's where I brought in House Smith. House Smith was played. Oh, just the drunk and the old Andy Griffiths show. And I got to know him. I, because I'd recorded with him on a Christmas show that we had done for cut nails. And I actually, I called him and got us house. I didn't know an agent. He just took the calls himself. And this is back in the big days of Christian radio. I mean, it focused with really beginning to be huge. And produced those two. And then they docked an ID. He said, I'd like, he said he was tired of Saturday morning cartoons. And he wanted to create an audio drama for kids. And everybody said, your nuts, kids will never pay to have to their visual. They'll never pay attention. It's a stupid idea. But Doc is rather strong willed was strong willed. And he said, don't we're going to go ahead with it? And that's when they started talking about coming on board. They didn't have a name for it. But it was going to be an audio drama for kids eight to 12. They came up with basically the outline of what it was. They got the name wit and wit's end. Anyhow, they put together the basic, the raw pieces of it. And they started recording the first of or the end of October of 1987. And by December, they were already going into reruns. I mean, it was just it was an absolute disaster. I remember going to studio sessions in Dave Williamson, which show up at the studio with pen and hand literally writing out the parts for the orchestra. I mean, crazy. I want to kill myself. Anyhow, so he came on and we changed everything. I Stephen and the believing I kept fill on and Paul was just incredible. And what I wanted to do is create something that didn't sound like the old old radios, which is where, you know, of course, as you're running, you got two coconuts on a piece of wood. I wanted to make it. The whole thing sound like a like a movie soundtrack because in movies, there's layers of sound. This depth is every you hear air movie, everything like you're going to sad on right now, you would hear that. And I wanted to create that. So I had two really good engineers. We were working on eight track, believe it or not eight track. And he had the layer, but he learned how to layer. And we got a really good sound, right? And the first and first year, got a decent sound. So we took off and then it just started to grow. And it's as you know, I think you know, has become unbelievable. We had a last year or a year and a half ago, they had the 1000th episode celebration. Six thousand people came and they turned away people because the place we did two, three thousand attendance concerts, two, three, one in the afternoon, one in the evening. And they had to turn people away. It was unbelievable. We did a cruise with them. On the 30th anniversary, which is probably eight years ago, hold out the Disney group. Disney had no idea who they're going, who are these people? So I was with them for eight years, was the executive producer of that at focus also was head of their development area, which was called Public Affairs. I don't know why they called it that, but that's kind of weird. They started in California at the time. They started in California. And I think it was in 1991, Dobson announced that they were moving. I said, really, we're to Colorado Springs, which is where I was raised. And I thought, oh my gosh, and Susie was not happy because she did not have, did not like Colorado Springs. I had thought a college series was fine, but I know I wasn't done with focus. So I went ahead committed to it. We moved back, had three really tough years as a family, but we got through it. And I ended up believing there in March of 19 or March of 19 96. They're only, they're only eight years. People think I'm still there sometimes because my name's still on a lot of early recordings, but left in 80 or 96 and went to work for my third thing, which is child help. And I was a perception locally of focus at that point. I know at one point, it was extremely high, high integrity, yeah, from the public. And then it kind of went sideways. And I don't think it was from anything that happened to focus other than just, well, no, it was, it was focus became a lightning rod because of Dobson's political stances. It was very divisive in that regard. And it was a mistake, I think, that he went so, so deep into that world. And I was a vice president having an accountant meeting. He had had Terry whatever the guy that was in charge of why it was a pro life group. I can't remember the name, but write to life something. And Terry, I can't remember his last name either, but he was pretty radical. I mean, it was doing all kinds of crazy stuff. And Dobson said, we're going to have him on the show. I said, no, I don't think that smart. He goes, well, why not? I said, because he's about spoken in things that we don't agree with. He's over the top. He defies government. Yeah, yeah. And Dobson said, every cause needs a kamikaze. And I said, yeah, but we don't have to crawl in the cockpit. And that was didn't get a good response. But he and I had a great relationship. I could make fun of him. And he loved it. I really, I really loved Doc. He was quite an amazing guy. I remember the building in Colorado Springs. And were you involved in the in the building of that? We were around as they were putting it up because the story, maybe this is true, maybe not. The story was that some Amish people came. That's correct. And built the building. And I would remember being there in the woodwork was just unbelievable. Yeah, but they told the wood didn't build the building, but they did all the wood interior. And it really is exceptional. Yeah, we had been down in Colorado Springs in an old bank building. And I had a fantastic office. I mean, I had the best office in the building. I don't know why I doctorate, but I had the top floor northwest corner, facing Pike's peak in the north. Oh, she was unbelievable. All windows. It was, I mean, it was impressive. I looked very impressive. Yeah, we moved from there. And then I moved into the new building. It was there. New building opened in I think 94. So there a couple of years. And then took off. I did a chapel service there in that building with you guy. I don't know if you were there or not. The dock was there. And the reason I remember it being so unforgettable is apparently there had been a staff member who had come out as gay. That's correct. And you remember that? Yeah, of course you were around for that. Yeah. They held the chapel service. I played some songs and then Doc invited this young man up. And people didn't know, they probably knew how he was going to address it. But there were a lot of others that didn't know what he was, how he was going to handle this. And he just loved on this kid and told him he loved him. They're going to support it. I don't know what happened after that. But it was, it was unforgettable because that was not expected. Yeah, I know what happened, but I'm not going to go into that. But yeah, no, Doc had a very compassionate heart. He was an interesting man because he had kind of two sides to him. And that that's the side that everybody loved. He was just, was very normal with people. But you know, isn't that, isn't that sort of common with that people with people of that charisma and that power and that magnetism? I'll tell you, there's two people. And I mean, apart from you, of course, there are two people, there are two, I'm here for everybody. There are two people that I know that are major leaders that were completely the antithesis of that are servant oriented, sweet, accessible, always, even in private. They're same off stages, they're on stage. And that was Chuck Colson and Jim daily. There's a current president of folks in the family. Two guys that are just absolutely incredible leaders and credible leaders and credible human beings. I know Jim, we've played golf together. We've gone on several, you know, one I love about this format is there's no record company. There's no, uh, by say she can't say that. Sandy and I talked about some things that we, you know, and I make sure she's okay with it. But I remember meeting Jim and what is the current state of focus? Maybe because the marketplace of everything is so crowded and demand for attention is just and attention span is 10 seconds and we're moving on. So what is the current impact that focus on the family? Get this. Last year, focus in the family surpassed the financial peak of when adoption was there, passed it. It's unbelievable. It's still going. Jim was an incredible interviewer. He's he's exceptional on the mic. He knows how to ask the questions, knows how to relate to the audience and other side of the mic. Their work they're doing is incredible. They provide uh, sonograms sonograms for for pregnancy places. Yeah, also, also, also, ultrasound for pregnancy places has been incredible saved thousands of baby's lives. Uh, they're working with states and getting kids adopted. We're going to get them adopted. They get thought, which is a fantastic thing. You know, if you know Jim's story, if you haven't read his story, it's worth his story. It's a page turner. It's that his life, he should not only not be president of the United States, he should be dealing drugs somewhere. I mean, his background, but he's not president of the United States. He's president of uh, Focus Hall of Fame. Well, that's, that's what I meant. Oh, although, you never know. It was a river. What a great president he would be. Actually, he would be his story. You were talking about his story. He was, you know, his mom, his dad left when he was young. His mom died when he was 12 or 13 or something like that. He was raised in foster care with weird, weird people called the Reels. They were very unreal. I mean, you have to read, honestly, his story is, I feel those who happen to be watching or listening look up Jim daily, but it's incredible. There's also a biography being written. I just got interviewed yesterday by a girl who's writing his biography, a new biography of him, but his story is absolutely breathtaking. And when you read it, you'll go, how did this guy ever come out of this alive? And he's really, and when you mean him, he's absolutely, as you know, charming, fun, funny, good guy. It's just authentic, transparent, totally. Totally. It's at all for people who don't know Jim. Daily is D-A-L-Y, correct? That's correct. That's correct. Jim, daily, yeah, president of Focus on the Family, maybe a potential presidential. I think he'd be shocked. So you, early on, you said you were not great raised, I mean, Jim, coming from where he came from with a dad who'd left and a mother who died early in his life and foster care. And unfortunately, there are some that are less positive than others. Well, that would be, that would be me. I listened to your interview with Sandy Kelly, it was so fun. Did you listen to number two yet? Oh, yeah, yeah. It was really, really good. Really well done. Well done. She's so sweet. But my life is just the opposite of hers. I was not raising a Christian home. My dad was a functional alcoholic. He was drunk every night, but a dentist during the day, steady as a rock. He'd come home every night, had a routine, would pull out a big bottle of Jim Beam for most glasses. It used to be juice. They used to put jelly in. And then then you could not have a juice glass. He thought three quarters full bourbon, splash of water, stands, stare out the window over the sink and do two of those and be gone. And that was every night, every night. You had no interaction with him after, well, not not really. I mean, he and I have arguments, but he just was not, he was not, he was from the World War II generation, which never showed any emotion, never hug me, never said, I love you, never say anything like that. And that's why I think when I became a Christian, it was such an eye-opening thing. But I didn't tell you about the rest of my story there is that trust she's okay with me telling this, but the girl who I was in love with in high school ended up getting married to Dan Burgess, song from ever Dan Burgess. Dan will, songs. I know this story. Songwriter, good guy, funny guy. Her marriage didn't work out. And when I heard, and I was a friend with Dan, I was friends with Dan of, oh, yeah, we're good friends. And when I heard that, I said, oh, boy, this is trouble. Because that this is again, you were in Sandy, we're talking in the 70s. Divorce was in the Christian world. If I was, if she got divorced, I couldn't marry her because she was tainted goods. Big, big red letter. Big head on A, but it means that's exactly right. And, uh, but I was she, they were divorced and she's living in Colorado and I thought, got a seer and we saw each other and hit it off. And she is not my wife and has been for 50 years this year, 50 years have been there. We have pictures we're going to, I'm going to put up for people that are watching the podcast. I've got lots of pictures of you and your family. I didn't know she was your love before. Yes. That's right. She was the one I told you about. She's the one that let me, that's the one that at the stoplight said, I can't love you because you're not a Christian. Yeah, I wasn't at a stoplight when that happened, but I was at the stoplight when I accepted Christ by myself after a date. Oh, I did not know that. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. Well, you have, um, yeah, you overplayed your hand there. No, I'm way over my skis on that one, but yeah, way over these, whatever the other one on there, and we can outpunted your coverage. Just see it. Oh, man, you know, we, you have two beautiful daughters. Yes. And we'll show pictures of them. I remember there's a time, and I don't know if my son will remember this or not, but there was a time when my oldest son, and I'm next age, yes, we're good friends and we would been time together at Estes Park because we go to park every summer for Christian artists. And I remember thinking they would be a good, they would be a fun couple. They would have been. And by the grace of God, they both gone on. I don't know, say, just story. I know a little bit of it, but Neil has now gone on and knocking on a big number next year, but a lot to be thankful for through all those, through all those times. You talked about how Smith, you know, I'm a, I'm a, I know more Andy Griffith, and then pretty much anything. I think I could be president if I knew how to do an Andy Griffith. If you want to, if you want to do a little Andy Griffith trivia, throw something at me if you think of something, but how Smith was the town drunk, and I always, and I put it on sometimes when I'm just working around the house, is it a company food? I know what's coming next. I can tell by the music what scene it is. And you could not have a, a TV show with a town drunk much one, much this one you'd laughed at. Yeah, that was a different, different time, but how he was, he was brilliant. He was, and he was such a sweet man. He almost was a father figure for me. He was just incredible in the studio. And we brought in all kinds of well-known voice actors and people that were on movies and stuff. And so I've forgotten many people's names, but just, it was, I got to work with Howard Morris. Howard Morris was, and the show shows wrote for Sid Cesar, what played on Andy Griff, has played Howard. Yes. Richie Bath. That's right. I got to be with him, have lunch with him. He is. We, it's Ernestine. Wait, I was on a church retreat. The church I was at years ago, and the assistant pastor thought he knew his Andy Griff is stuff, and he challenged me in front of the whole staff, too. I just wiped the floor with him. Radio station here in Houston, maybe at the 40th anniversary of the Andy Griff is show. KSBJ Radio here, they, they knew I was a fan, and they, they had a call in tribute, stump, stump the expert. And so people called in, I'm in my car, and could go somewhere. People called in, and I would answer the question before they finished asking questions. And the DJs were like, oh my gosh, she doesn't even let them finish asking the question. That's actually a little bit sick, Wayne. That's just, but hey, all things considered, could be a lot worse. Yes, yes, it could be. Yes, it might, much worse. You could be memorizing my notion of an hour or something. Yeah, yeah, got it. You went from, you went from focus and doing productions for them to an organization called American Defense League. How did, how did that transition come about? What drew you to them? And what was your role in that? Well, a couple of things. Clarification is called Alliance Defense Fund. By the way, I got, but you're close ADF and giant defense league. That's good. Alliance Defense Fund. That's what it was called. It's not called Alliance Defense, Alliance Defense Freedom. But finally, there's a middle part. I left focus to go to work for Child Health, which was a national child abuse prevention and treatment organization. I did that because I wanted to break out of the Christian subculture and see what I could do. My president of that organization for eight years. And that's where I got to know all the celebrity, they were a big celebrity driven organization and a bunch of ambassadors. Got to know people that were going to be way beyond most of the people's age here. But Cheryl Ladd, we came a good friend. Cheryl Ladd was, was, uh, uh, Charlie's, yeah, yeah, she was a very foster sister. We had a celebrity golf tournament called the Lexus Challenge, which was on NBC. And I remember I had to speak at the, what's called the, um, draw party, which is where they decided which pro is they're going to play with which amateurs and which celebrity, celebrity pro am. And it was all see, it was senior tours. So I get up to speak on a sports announcer. And this is me and I get up. I look out in the front row. And the front row is, uh, Joe Pesci, uh, Kevin Costner, uh, uh, teacher Rodriguez, Evan Floyd, um, Sean Connery, I mean, unbelievable. I'm thinking, why am I here? What am I doing? If I give the little speech and it was a great little speech, so good that they actually asked me to do it on camera for NBC the next day. Which I did. I went up in the tower and was with Jim, whatever his name is. So does, still does the golf. His CBS, CBS guy, little sprins. Yeah. That's right. That's, that's very good. It's right boy. I had a list. He does title. Yes. Yes. Anyhow, um, so I told the story, which was an angel. You want me to tell the story? It's an interesting story. Sure. Yeah. All right. So I can get it. Okay. He's a funny boy. He's a funny boy. He's a funny guy. What movie is this from? Guys, only one of them. You know, that brain of yours is a really three amigos. Thank you. Okay. Oh, guapo. He laughed at the three amigos. He's a funny guy. It's just cute one of them. It's just good. It's just good. Okay. So anyhow, I'm going to tell you the story now, Wayne. Then in my office, child health office, and I get a phone call on the reception, says there's a woman on the phone that wants to talk to you about her experience to child health. I said, great. Because we never hear anything. Once we sort of abused, we took care of abused kids and they left us at 12. And we never hear from again because they want to ignore what's happened. But we treated them like, like kings. I mean, we treated them incredibly well. Like things like we would never have milk cartons on the table. We'll only have milk pictures and silverware had silverware and nice plates. And all it was really, it was really incredible. Anyhow, she wants to talk to you. So I take it and she goes, hi, my name's Connie. So I want to tell you about the little girl that was, was it child health? And I said, good, because I never hear these stories. She goes, well, the little girl was taken from her home because she'd been abused by your mother and her father. And when they're taking her away and CPS, we're taking her away. Apparently, you're going to go someplace we're going to rape you, which she was all too familiar with. Is there parents? And they bring her to child health in Beaumont. And when you go to Beaumont, above the door of all of her, we have two other places. Above the door, it says, all the inner girl will find love. She said, this little girl read that. And for some reason, she believes it. She doesn't know why she did. But she believed it. She walked in the door. She said, the first thing the girl noticed, she said, was the place smelled safe. I'm on the top. It smelled safe. And then I heard tears well up in her voice. She goes, that little girl was me. She said, when I came to you and I was nine years old, I had no hope. And now you treated me so well. And she said, now I married I have two kids. I will never abuse. And I want to thank you for what you did for me, which we never got those calls. So I told that story on NBC. And it was a great story. I mean, it was a good story in front of the live audience. And great. So with these, with these homes, we took over an old Catholic boarding school or some kind. So we had four kids, three or four kids in a room. Each one was decked out with Disney stuff that Disney had donated. And the rooms were all decorated for kids. And but there were three or four in a room. And then they would all eat together, like 12 at a table. I didn't know you went, I mean, how long were you there? I was there eight years. Yeah. So eight years. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then you met for that. Pardon me. Alliance came after that. Yeah. What happened was I left there when independent for a year and kept some clients that I was working with regarding radio and some other stuff and consulting. ADF became one because Wayne, Wayne Swimler, who is my, has a name, Swimler, and he's my CFO. Yeah. He's just saying about that. Well, there's a, there's a proctologist here in Houston. I'm not making this up named Dr. Butts. So we'll just move along. And if I may, there's also a urologist named Dr. Winkel. I'm not making this up. He in his office, he didn't have business cards. He had little coins. And it said, when you can't take a cold doctor, I am serious as I can. Oh, that sounds like a bad joke. That's unbelievable. Well, that beats this. Anyhow, Wayne had gone to work for ADF, which again, at that time was called Alliance Defense Fund. He knew about me and I was independent. He asked me to come in and talk about communications and marketing. They offered me a job and I said, no, I've got this other job. I said, okay, I'll tell you what, I will come to work here as long as you pay me full time by only work four days a week. And I get your insurance. They said, fine. So on the fifth day, I had worked for my other clients in four days and worked here and did that until I became full time. And then they asked me to change the logo and then eventually decided to change the name because Alliance Defense Fund sounds like it's some defense contractor or something like that. So we wanted to keep the ADF because ADF was known to the initials right now. So we made it Alliance defending freedom. And one of those who don't know, it's international, international, legal alliance that works mostly in religious liberty issues. We've done a bunch of Supreme Court cases that they might recognize. But I had more in them all actually. We've won all of our Supreme Court cases. It's been pretty incredible. And they're still going doing really well. And I support them there. Great organization. When did your health start to deteriorate? What was the first day you were told? You've got a problem. And we went on a really intensive demographic journey. Yeah. It was actually the fall of 2018. I had been diagnosed with that time. I'd been feeling really weak. They diagnosed with some blood issue. And I had to have a bunch of transfusions. The size and for transfusions probably once a month. I'd go through periods where I'd get real weak. And then I go into how transfusions feel fine. And that was in 2018. In March of 2019, my wife and I were with my oncologist at Mayo Clinic. And she came in with a very serious look in her face. And she said, the municipality, we have to tell you that you don't have whatever it was, this is blood things. But what you do have is acute myeloid leukemia. And I think she was expecting Suzy and I had to go, oh my gosh. Cancer, what are we going to do? And we just come in. Okay. So what do we do? And so she said, well, we can admit you're right away and do the old school drip chemo. Or they just three months prior had FDA approved a chemo pill. That's not brand. I'm going to do the pill, obviously. And I said, but do I have other options? Could I do things like transfusions? Could I do that? Yes, you could, but you'd be dead in two to three months. That got our attention. Now we know how serious. Let me worry about that. Got an immediate answer. That's right. And so what they do is they put you on the pills immediately. Then they put you in the registration stem cell register thing, which is an international registry. And you have to have a minimum of 10 marks match with your donor. And 12 is perfect. They found two perfects. One was a German, which is if you're working Germany and work for the government, you have to be a donor. It's required. But here in the States, they found the 31-year-old guy. They chose him. And what they do is you go in five days prior to the surgery and they basically do scorched earth. They kill. They put stuff in you that just kills everything. And they put a port in your chest. And then on the day of the transfusion, they bring in this blood bag. And it's only about half full. You've seen blood bags before like water bags. It's about half full, kind of yellowish red fluid. They hook it up. And then every hospital has a chaplain that comes in and offers their services. We accepted it. It was an African-American woman, sweet, sweet lady. These are women that have to do everything from Buddhist to Mormon to Catholic to every all over the map. So she obviously stayed new to territory, but offered a sweet prayer. I was really sweet. And then they open the valve and it flows into your feeling, but it flows into your chest. And essentially, you can actually see little flecks that are the cells. You can actually see them. It's really, really weird going into your body. And then you're in the hospital for 30 days, which is I thought would be fine because I don't get bored. I took my guitar in and took things to read. But when I got a surgery, my hands would shake and I couldn't play my guitar. And my brain was scrambled. So I couldn't read. So I was stuck in that room for 30 days with just a TV. And as a vast, as a vast as Mayo was, their TVs are like third sent, you have to go through five steps to just change channels. You know, seriously, I just scream about it. They have right, but yours you had to get it. Just about, just about, was this a, was this a period where your isolation, your isolation? Yeah, not completely, you know, sterile isolated room for a long time for a month, for a one month, yeah, for one month. And it's not, it's not completely. I said, I was fine until about the 27th day. And I was ready to break a window and escape. I mean, I was just, I was just calm to get out. And finally, I got out, came home and one of the things they did, this is the hospital, this is a hospital saying this, they say, now you get to go through 100 days of hell. But when a hospital says you're going through out of this, that, that's not real encouraging. And so you have to have something with you 24 seven. And Susie was still doing therapy work. So she had client, moved all her clients some money and Tuesday. So people flew in from all over the US to be with me through those three days, which is, you know, very, very heartening to me. I remember everybody was here, but I don't remember anything that was said or done. I just solved, solved, scrambled. But I do remember everybody was here. It was just really, really sweet of them to do that. They were with me for those 100 days. And then after 100 days, you're on your own. And what's interesting is, here's me, you're boring me. What's interesting is, after 100 days, you're lost all your appetite. So you have to make yourself eat. So I had to drink all kinds of protein stuff. And I, and to eat food just was terrible. I had to make myself eat, which I hated. And I went all that way until April, the next year. So this is during COVID, keep my, so I'm an isolation for a year during my, I think, then COVID hit some in isolation for COVID. Really sweet, great timing. Anyhow, in April of 2020, I remember distinctly waking up one morning, and I felt hungry. I thought, holy cow, and I got up and ate, and I started, I was down to 150. I looked like some of the Ashwitz, and ate and got my weight back up to 175, 180, which is where I'm at, 175 now, and which is a good weight for my height. So I'm, but I'm doing real well. That's seven years to go, June, and I'm doing real well. I don't look like it. I kind of look like, yeah, I'm looking at myself here and going, that just doesn't look like it. Who is that? Yeah, you know, seriously. Who's that guy? You're still playing golf a little the able to play golf. The guy's golf thing, as you know, I had been lost every year. And bummer, bummer, bummer, gotta get you back, gotta get you back some time. Anyhow, one of our, one of my favorite golf moments, collection of moments, and we won't give exact details. One of my favorite golf collection of moments was when we were on a trip to Pebble Beach area, and they were, I guess, were there eight of us? There's on that year, there's only seven, because I was you and you. Several of us had already played Pebble Beach, and a few of the other guys had never played it. That's correct. And so we just kind of chilled out and entertained ourselves. Well, no, we let's know. No, actually, you and I and Jim and I went over to that other. I see the coast. Oh, we did. Oh, Christopher Grove. Yeah, that's where you got your eagle. And the 18th fairway. You're right. But 17th green. That's right. So we strolled down there a beautiful day of golf clubs, which was fine with me. We walked down 18, and we sat, we stood at the 17th green and watched our friends come in, just grinded. They're trying to prove that I can play that, you know, and so we watched them play 17, and then we walked with them against no clubs in our hands. Yeah. Other things, but no clubs. And you just walked and they were grinded and tried to par 18. We just, it was just the best. It was absolutely. You remember how it ended, don't you? Wonder what halfway down the sun's going down and what do you hear? Remember? lag pipes. Bag pipes. No, no, they play them there at Pebble Beach. We're walking back or halfway down there doing those last shot in the green and the bag pipes. No, I don't remember that. I can't believe it. Yeah, we've had some good times, man. I remember, well, I just had a lot of good memory from those trips. That's right. That was the last time I saw you. That was the last time we get an interview one time. You came out on the road and interviewed me for, for focus. And I'll never forget this either. I was so embarrassed. You interviewed me for a radio spot or a radio program at focus. And I was talking about giving my kids, and I never toured long. I would go out for two, three days and I'd go home. I never did weeks at a time. And I was talking about how important it was for me to give my kids quality time. And you literally stopped the tape, it was a tape recorder. You literally stopped the tape recorder. Dr. Dobson doesn't like that concept of quality time. You know, it's funny. I don't even remember this. I do not remember this. It was very impactful to me. And that being said, here I am at this age with a 12-year-old six-grader now. That. I don't be much else right now. Yeah. And this kid I've learned more from this kid than a lifetime. Yeah. I've learned more about God from him than a lifetime. No, no, no, no. This respect to my Sunday school years, but just what God has taught me. And again, the time, just time together. Yeah. Doing nothing. I go to baseball practice and just watch them. I just hang out with my mother the night. I said, maybe I put it on a post or something. I said, just you think God watches us kids. And you know, I grew up and you said you really church was not a part of your life growing up. But it was very much a part of my life growing up. And it was not necessarily always good. It was sometimes very guilt inducing. Yeah. Shame. A lot of shame. A lot of shame. My image of God would have been with him, a painting of God with his fist drawn back about that. You make one more mistake. I'm going to take you out. That kind of thing. And I just wonder if God sometimes whatever the dynamic of God's vision of us as His children might be. If he just doesn't get shake his head and don't look at my kid, didn't he something? And I think he's done that with you. And hopefully with all of us. And you know, you've had such a colorful life. I want I want to I'm going to show some pictures of you and your lovely wife. He's doing life. He's doing life coaching now. Well, man, thank you so much. You're other quite what you have one of the questions. Oh, uh, if you had to pick a last meal, I was sandy. Yeah. See, you remember what hers was? Yeah. Meatloaf. She didn't even hesitate. I know. I know. No, not me. Now, my wife makes great meatloaf, but I haven't had it in a long time. For me is I'm pretty sick of potatoes guy. I take a good medium rare nearby. Oh, okay. Maybe a half baked potato. Some some grilledparagus. Yeah. And cream corn. Oh, I love you. Come on now. It's not hard healthy, but hey, if it's your last one, who cares, right? I'm out of here. So come on. Come on. Why not? Oh, man. I love you, bud. Thank you so much. And in time with me, I hope we can be in person somewhere soon. Me too. And I love doing a great job of these podcasts. And I hope it continues. I hope you're able to continue it and have a love. If you talk to Sandy, tell her I love her. It's I will. It was it was just great hearing her. It was great hearing her. I saw his photo of Sandy and I, Sandy and I and Hal and Judy Sutton was when Judy was married to Hal before he died. But that we were that we're the new year's Eve thing at Universal Sheraton that I that I am seed. George Beverly Shea was there. What a great memory. Great memory. Neil, my mom passed away 14 years ago. They had 29 years ago. One of my mom's favorite things that ever happened to me was singing on the stage with Cliff Barrows and George Beverly Shea at a Billy Graham event. She thought that's it. You know, you achieved everything you need to achieve right now. It's like you go into the studio at sunset. It's like, yeah, now it's over now. And that I love you, bud. Love you too, man. Thanks, man, for having me. I really enjoy it. Joy being with you, buddy. Me too. Hope to see you soon. Thank you, bro. Take care. Bye. Episode with a friend. To learn more about Wayne's music, ministry and upcoming projects, visit WayneWatson.com. Every journey of faith begins with a story and every heart finds its rhythm in the Lord. Until next time, go well and may you keep walking in step with his song flowing through you.