Faith Under Fire: From 9/11 to Building a Global Brand

100:00:01.830 --> 00:00:06.050Welcome to the Wayne Watson Podcast, where Grammy nominee and multiple Dove200:00:06.050 --> 00:00:10.130award-winning artist Wayne Watson engages in lively conversation with300:00:10.130 --> 00:00:12.370remarkable people from every walk of life.400:00:12.670 --> 00:00:16.570Artists to healthcare professionals, athletes and leaders to everyday believers500:00:16.570 --> 00:00:20.270whose stories reflect the power of faith at work in the world.600:00:20.530 --> 00:00:24.170Join us as we go beyond the spotlight and into the heart of what it means to700:00:24.170 --> 00:00:27.990live with purpose and conviction, diving into real conversations about the800:00:27.990 --> 00:00:32.350moments that shape us, the faith that sustains us, and the God who inspires it900:00:32.350 --> 00:00:32.570all.1000:00:32.810 --> 00:00:35.010Now, here's your host, Wayne Watson.1100:00:58.100 --> 00:00:59.060Where are you?1200:00:59.340 --> 00:01:00.520Tell me where you are this morning.1300:01:01.080 --> 00:01:01.440Hey, Wayne.1400:01:01.540 --> 00:01:10.080Well, today I am in sunny and snowy New York City on the beautiful Upper West1500:01:10.080 --> 00:01:10.460Side.1600:01:10.980 --> 00:01:13.840My wife is the biggest New York fan.1700:01:13.960 --> 00:01:18.280She would drop everything, move everything in our house, and move to New York1800:01:18.280 --> 00:01:21.960now if there were a good reason.1900:01:22.620 --> 00:01:28.560I have told her we would probably live in a space this big in New York City.2000:01:28.600 --> 00:01:28.880It's true.2100:01:29.400 --> 00:01:29.820It's true.2200:01:30.660 --> 00:01:33.240Yeah, our face is not much here.2300:01:34.720 --> 00:01:40.420It's enough, but both of our grown kids live here, and my wife's parents live2400:01:40.420 --> 00:01:46.240just outside the city, and so we kind of, they're participating in the elder2500:01:46.240 --> 00:01:47.380care part of that.2600:01:48.220 --> 00:01:52.040Is the Northeast your home stomping ground?2700:01:52.240 --> 00:01:53.340Did you grow there?2800:01:53.820 --> 00:01:54.600Where did you come from?2900:01:54.680 --> 00:01:59.060Well, today we permanently live in Fort Lauderdale, so that's where we live3000:01:59.060 --> 00:02:00.680most of the time.3100:02:01.240 --> 00:02:03.760I grew up in the Seattle-Tacoma area.3200:02:05.140 --> 00:02:06.880I was actually born in Oakland, California.3300:02:08.460 --> 00:02:16.260I am a grandchild of, there's a lot of pastors in my heritage, in my legacy.3400:02:17.240 --> 00:02:19.480My grandmother was Goldia Anderson.3500:02:20.160 --> 00:02:23.620She was the National Women's Director for Assemblies of God for a lot of years,3600:02:24.480 --> 00:02:27.960and she created something called Missionettes, which is a girls program for the3700:02:27.960 --> 00:02:32.700Assemblies of God, and my grandfather also worked for the church.3800:02:32.960 --> 00:02:37.560My uncles were in the church and so forth, and so I was born in Oakland,3900:02:37.680 --> 00:02:38.040California.4000:02:38.380 --> 00:02:44.600My mom also worked in women's ministries, and my dad sold bras in San4100:02:44.600 --> 00:02:47.460Francisco, so there's that.4200:02:48.060 --> 00:02:50.400You didn't have that on your big old card today, did you?4300:02:50.740 --> 00:02:55.180No, what a varied, interesting family story that is.4400:02:55.180 --> 00:02:59.740Yeah, and then when I turned five, we moved to Seattle, and I'm sure my dad, I4500:02:59.740 --> 00:03:00.700think he went to real estate.4600:03:02.140 --> 00:03:02.400Okay.4700:03:02.500 --> 00:03:06.020And I grew up and went to high school in Tacoma, Washington.4800:03:06.460 --> 00:03:08.360I went to junior high in Woodby Island.4900:03:08.780 --> 00:03:10.640There's a famous naval air station there.5000:03:11.980 --> 00:03:17.180And then left the Seattle area, went to Oral Roberts University for my5100:03:17.180 --> 00:03:20.920undergraduate degree, and the rest is history.5200:03:21.560 --> 00:03:22.260Yeah, yeah.5300:03:22.500 --> 00:03:22.960Oh, it will.5400:03:23.360 --> 00:03:27.860So did you go to a lot of events in the Tacoma Dome when you were growing up in5500:03:27.860 --> 00:03:28.300that area?5600:03:28.460 --> 00:03:32.020I actually, the Tacoma Dome was a thing.5700:03:32.100 --> 00:03:33.180I think it might still be a thing.5800:03:33.420 --> 00:03:33.520Yeah.5900:03:33.600 --> 00:03:38.640The first event they ever had was a Billy Graham crusade.6000:03:39.540 --> 00:03:40.020Wow.6100:03:40.220 --> 00:03:42.380And the grand opening of the Tacoma Dome.6200:03:43.440 --> 00:03:46.340Yeah, I remember playing there with some other artists.6300:03:46.500 --> 00:03:50.080It seemed like a big wooden, I don't know what it was made out of, but it6400:03:50.080 --> 00:03:52.600seemed like it was a wooden structure, dome structure.6500:03:52.720 --> 00:03:53.280Yeah, wood dome.6600:03:53.540 --> 00:03:56.000It sounded, yeah, it sounded really good in there.6700:03:56.120 --> 00:03:59.400It wasn't like these big football stadiums.6800:04:00.400 --> 00:04:06.100So are you a dyed-in-the-wool Seahawks follower or couldn't care less?6900:04:06.120 --> 00:04:08.520I actually used to work for the Seahawks, ironically.7000:04:08.540 --> 00:04:09.020No kidding?7100:04:09.200 --> 00:04:10.020In what capacity?7200:04:10.480 --> 00:04:13.300I was a camera operator for the game camera.7300:04:13.560 --> 00:04:13.920Wow.7400:04:14.600 --> 00:04:16.279So I worked for the Seahawks.7500:04:16.420 --> 00:04:18.560I worked for the Seattle Supersonics when they were there.7600:04:19.120 --> 00:04:21.220And I worked for the Seattle Mariners.7700:04:21.380 --> 00:04:24.900I was first base and I was center field camera for the Mariners.7800:04:25.080 --> 00:04:26.460That is awesome.7900:04:26.800 --> 00:04:27.580Oh, what a great job.8000:04:27.640 --> 00:04:30.200Did you ever get hit by a foul ball or a throw?8100:04:30.300 --> 00:04:37.520No, but I remember the center field for Mariners, they would hit home runs8200:04:37.520 --> 00:04:41.680right over that area and it would fall into a little space.8300:04:41.940 --> 00:04:45.580And so I would climb down the little stairs, hit the ball, climb up the stairs8400:04:45.580 --> 00:04:50.000again to my camera, and they're somewhere in storage, I think.8500:04:50.500 --> 00:04:50.600Yeah.8600:04:51.600 --> 00:04:52.120Wow.8700:04:52.840 --> 00:04:57.620Seattle is, I remember good things about the Seattle-Tacoma area.8800:04:59.500 --> 00:05:01.440It's not as rainy as people think.8900:05:01.500 --> 00:05:03.980I think the Seattleites have kept that a secret.9000:05:04.200 --> 00:05:06.860They want everybody to think, don't come live here.9100:05:07.140 --> 00:05:09.440It's miserable and rainy all the time.9200:05:09.440 --> 00:05:13.140Now, Portland, Oregon, that is more the case, I think.9300:05:13.460 --> 00:05:20.220But my wife is, we've been to the Eugene, Oregon many, many times for coaching9400:05:20.220 --> 00:05:21.440with the USA team.9500:05:22.180 --> 00:05:23.440And we just love it up there.9600:05:23.520 --> 00:05:27.920We've gone to the Oregon coast two or three times and just spectacular.9700:05:28.300 --> 00:05:34.820So yeah, that Northwest corner and the history of it is fascinating.9800:05:34.920 --> 00:05:38.920How the Northwest corner of the United States was populated and how it was9900:05:38.920 --> 00:05:39.720civilized.10000:05:39.860 --> 00:05:45.760And some of the efforts that were made to civilize and populate it failed and10100:05:45.760 --> 00:05:47.040probably for the better.10200:05:47.380 --> 00:05:54.880At one point, I think it was John Astin from the New York Astin family tried to10300:05:54.880 --> 00:06:02.280go around the tip before there was a Panama Canal and sail up and populate and10400:06:02.280 --> 00:06:06.940call that part of the U.S. as by a different name in a different country.10500:06:07.220 --> 00:06:07.740Oh, interesting.10600:06:07.920 --> 00:06:08.400Do you know that story?10700:06:08.660 --> 00:06:08.820Yeah.10800:06:09.020 --> 00:06:11.120No, no, but it sounds, yeah.10900:06:11.280 --> 00:06:12.100It's a great story.11000:06:12.740 --> 00:06:16.260But trapping and fur trading and all that took place all the way across the11100:06:16.260 --> 00:06:16.580country.11200:06:16.780 --> 00:06:19.840And it probably would be something very different than it is now.11300:06:20.040 --> 00:06:22.460So how did you get to New York?11400:06:24.740 --> 00:06:32.620Well, when I graduated from Oral Roberts University in 88, went back to11500:06:32.620 --> 00:06:37.920Seattle, worked for the Seahawks, did all that, worked for the CBS TV affiliate11600:06:37.920 --> 00:06:41.240there and did camera and editing and stuff like that.11700:06:41.980 --> 00:06:43.460And got married.11800:06:44.000 --> 00:06:47.580My wife, we both relocated there in 89.11900:06:47.580 --> 00:06:52.580And it was just a little bit too much rain.12000:06:53.260 --> 00:06:56.080It was, my wife was from Long Island.12100:06:57.080 --> 00:07:00.540It wasn't really conducive to, it was a little bit too much rain.12200:07:00.980 --> 00:07:05.880Plus I was working really, really hard being a camera operator and not making a12300:07:05.880 --> 00:07:06.480whole lot of money.12400:07:06.960 --> 00:07:13.600So we, I found a job in New York City, dubbing videotapes.12500:07:14.260 --> 00:07:16.580And for those of you who are watching, you don't know what that is.12600:07:16.580 --> 00:07:21.140A videotape is a little box that has tape inside.12700:07:22.960 --> 00:07:29.960So I got a job in New York City in Chelsea on 18th street, dubbing VHS and one12800:07:29.960 --> 00:07:30.800inch videotapes.12900:07:31.280 --> 00:07:32.780So we moved to New York City.13000:07:32.980 --> 00:07:34.440I continued my career in broadcasting.13100:07:35.600 --> 00:07:40.040But we lived in Long Island and I took the train to New York City every day.13200:07:40.980 --> 00:07:46.380And I made VHS videotapes for a while.13300:07:46.580 --> 00:07:49.880Now, where in Long Island did your wife come from?13400:07:50.340 --> 00:07:53.540What village settlement in Long Island?13500:07:53.640 --> 00:07:54.700Cause I know there are many of them.13600:07:55.280 --> 00:07:56.640Well, there's two counties.13700:07:56.880 --> 00:07:58.560There's Nassau County and Suffolk County.13800:07:59.220 --> 00:08:00.960Suffolk County is the Eastern end of Long Island.13900:08:01.660 --> 00:08:03.100And she was from Suffolk.14000:08:03.180 --> 00:08:08.000She was from a little town called Mastic, which is right near the Hamptons.14100:08:08.220 --> 00:08:09.860So a lot of people know about the Hamptons.14200:08:10.560 --> 00:08:13.000My wife and I just kind of co-located with the Hamptons area.14300:08:14.520 --> 00:08:14.620Right.14400:08:14.920 --> 00:08:21.000There used to be a great radio station on Long Island called WLIX, Christian14500:08:21.000 --> 00:08:21.300Radio.14600:08:21.460 --> 00:08:25.980I don't know if they were there when you were there or not, but did many, many14700:08:25.980 --> 00:08:26.960concerts out there.14800:08:27.040 --> 00:08:31.059And one of the townships called Smithtown.14900:08:31.280 --> 00:08:31.720Is that?15000:08:31.799 --> 00:08:31.919Sure.15100:08:32.980 --> 00:08:35.020There's Smithtown Tabernacle, was a big church there.15200:08:35.299 --> 00:08:36.880Smithtown Gospel Tabernacle.15300:08:36.880 --> 00:08:37.940Yeah, that's right.15400:08:39.980 --> 00:08:43.740WLIX was a great radio station, played a lot of our stuff.15500:08:44.060 --> 00:08:49.040And it seems like in the last couple of decades, a lot of the Christian radio15600:08:49.040 --> 00:08:54.480stations that were independent and solely owned on one location have gone to15700:08:54.480 --> 00:08:55.320bigger networks.15800:08:55.560 --> 00:08:57.280And I've kind of lost track of that.15900:08:58.000 --> 00:09:04.600But tell me about your kids.16000:09:04.900 --> 00:09:06.560What are they involved in?16100:09:07.200 --> 00:09:07.520Sure.16200:09:07.660 --> 00:09:14.760I've got a daughter, Sarah, who is 34, and a son, Brian, who's 31.16300:09:16.040 --> 00:09:18.380And my daughter's in marketing.16400:09:18.820 --> 00:09:24.920She recently just finished a contract job doing some marketing for the Honolulu16500:09:24.920 --> 00:09:26.640Marathon in Honolulu, Hawaii.16600:09:27.500 --> 00:09:27.900Wow.16700:09:28.120 --> 00:09:33.360And she's married to a great guy in Jordan who's in the music business in the16800:09:33.360 --> 00:09:36.200management side, like licensing and stuff like that.16900:09:36.960 --> 00:09:37.060Okay.17000:09:37.120 --> 00:09:41.500And then my son, Brian Jr., is a web developer, a coder.17100:09:41.820 --> 00:09:44.460He works for Standard & Poor's at S&P.17200:09:45.180 --> 00:09:45.400Okay.17300:09:45.560 --> 00:09:51.360And his wife, Abby, is a schoolteacher here in New York City, teaching, I17400:09:51.360 --> 00:09:55.300forget what grade, but a younger grade here in New York City, teaching English17500:09:55.300 --> 00:09:56.200as a second language.17600:09:58.060 --> 00:10:01.420Well, one of the things that comes to mind, have you run the New York Marathon?17700:10:01.680 --> 00:10:08.020I know you, by the way, are you up to date on walking every day in 2026 so far?17800:10:08.020 --> 00:10:08.240I am.17900:10:08.400 --> 00:10:10.420I just finished 45 minutes before this call.18000:10:10.460 --> 00:10:10.560Okay.18100:10:10.600 --> 00:10:11.820I wanted to hold you accountable.18200:10:12.220 --> 00:10:12.740Thank you.18300:10:12.860 --> 00:10:13.380I appreciate that.18400:10:13.660 --> 00:10:14.780I've done it twice.18500:10:14.780 --> 00:10:16.960I've done it twice since you and I talked, so.18600:10:17.460 --> 00:10:17.640Good.18700:10:18.420 --> 00:10:20.140I'm trying to do 40 minutes a day.18800:10:20.820 --> 00:10:22.700So, it's not too hard to find 40 minutes.18900:10:24.140 --> 00:10:25.800Yeah, I've run the New York Marathon once.19000:10:26.640 --> 00:10:27.320Have you really?19100:10:27.320 --> 00:10:28.720It's done it five times.19200:10:29.840 --> 00:10:29.940Wow.19300:10:30.140 --> 00:10:37.960And I've also run Little Rock Marathon, Miami Marathon, Disney Marathon, and19400:10:37.960 --> 00:10:38.840Mumbai, India.19500:10:40.320 --> 00:10:45.820Well, we have one here in Houston that just happened two weeks ago, and it's19600:10:45.820 --> 00:10:48.000always questionable what the weather will be like.19700:10:48.080 --> 00:10:49.640It could be 80 or it could be 20.19800:10:49.800 --> 00:10:54.860And this year, I'm not a runner, so this year was in the high 30s and 40s when19900:10:54.860 --> 00:10:58.480they started, which I think is pretty much ideal for marathon runners.20000:10:58.480 --> 00:11:03.140Yeah, the women's winner for Houston is a lady my wife knows, the second place.20100:11:03.140 --> 00:11:03.720Oh, is that right?20200:11:04.340 --> 00:11:05.160Yeah, yeah.20300:11:05.180 --> 00:11:05.920She's a nice lady.20400:11:09.030 --> 00:11:14.240I'd say, no, it's not too bad.20500:11:14.380 --> 00:11:15.000It's not too bad.20600:11:15.140 --> 00:11:21.560Yeah, I would say the most interesting marathon for me was Mumbai, India.20700:11:22.300 --> 00:11:25.900It was, it started off cool in the morning.20800:11:26.000 --> 00:11:28.900I think our starting time was 4.30 or 5.20900:11:31.240 --> 00:11:33.440And it got hot really quickly.21000:11:33.680 --> 00:11:40.040It went from like 50 to 90 or something, some crazy change.21100:11:40.320 --> 00:11:43.240And then it just got dusty and hot.21200:11:43.780 --> 00:11:48.900But you got to see Mumbai, and it's a very car-centric city.21300:11:49.720 --> 00:11:53.900So to be on roads where normally cars are, but only pedestrians were allowed,21400:11:54.420 --> 00:11:55.440was really, really cool.21500:11:56.400 --> 00:11:58.860In fact, there's a bridge in Mumbai that only cars go on.21600:11:59.420 --> 00:12:01.660That you can only go on as a pedestrian on the marathon.21700:12:01.840 --> 00:12:03.060It's not allowed, there's no pedestrians.21800:12:04.120 --> 00:12:06.320It's called the Sea Link Bridge.21900:12:08.140 --> 00:12:12.500So that was just a fascinating time and interesting to see the Indian22000:12:12.500 --> 00:12:13.360community.22100:12:14.740 --> 00:12:18.640How many people ran that one as compared to what the New York, New York22200:12:18.640 --> 00:12:22.240marathon is 25, 30,000 people or more?22300:12:22.480 --> 00:12:22.660I don't.22400:12:22.760 --> 00:12:28.140Yeah, I think New York's, I want to say 30 to 40, I want to say 35-ish.22500:12:28.700 --> 00:12:30.940And I don't remember India, I got to be honest.22600:12:31.080 --> 00:12:32.020It was quite a bit less.22700:12:33.740 --> 00:12:38.380They're trying really hard to market to outside of India to get outside people22800:12:38.380 --> 00:12:38.980coming in.22900:12:40.460 --> 00:12:41.980And it was a lot of fun.23000:12:42.220 --> 00:12:45.360But running is a good way to see the community, see the sites.23100:12:46.060 --> 00:12:51.380I did Little Rock, Arkansas, which seems weird, but we went with a group and23200:12:51.380 --> 00:12:53.820they're known for these big giant medals that are huge.23300:12:53.820 --> 00:12:54.280Yep.23400:12:55.760 --> 00:12:58.820And seeing Little Rock was really just beautiful.23500:12:59.340 --> 00:13:04.140And the same as New York, New York marathon's famous because you go through23600:13:04.140 --> 00:13:05.080every single borough.23700:13:05.520 --> 00:13:06.000Right.23800:13:06.160 --> 00:13:08.200Every single part of New York City and see it all.23900:13:08.340 --> 00:13:10.260So it's a fun way to see the sites.24000:13:11.780 --> 00:13:16.660And it's different from running it and walking it compared to riding in a car24100:13:16.660 --> 00:13:17.240or a bus.24200:13:17.420 --> 00:13:22.980I used to ride motorcycles and the difference in the way you experience your24300:13:22.980 --> 00:13:26.380environment when you're traveling through somewhere on a motorcycle compared to24400:13:26.380 --> 00:13:30.500a car was always just exhilarating to me.24500:13:30.680 --> 00:13:31.480I love that.24600:13:31.880 --> 00:13:35.500Tell me the strangest thing that's ever happened in any of those marathons.24700:13:35.620 --> 00:13:37.740What's the most memorable odd thing?24800:13:38.400 --> 00:13:40.880Other than finishing, I'm assuming you finished them all.24900:13:41.960 --> 00:13:44.100Well, I'll tell you, I did finish them all.25000:13:45.420 --> 00:13:45.660Okay.25100:13:45.660 --> 00:13:47.580It was on one of my training runs.25200:13:47.660 --> 00:13:55.540I think I was doing a half marathon and I forgot to put a protective tape in25300:13:55.540 --> 00:13:56.100this area.25400:13:56.240 --> 00:13:58.160I'll just kind of point to this area here.25500:14:00.560 --> 00:14:01.600I've heard about that.25600:14:01.840 --> 00:14:07.700When you're running, a lot of things you learn on the job, hopefully someone25700:14:07.700 --> 00:14:10.460teaches you these things, but you want to hydrate.25800:14:10.760 --> 00:14:12.780You want to wear the right kind of shoes.25900:14:13.020 --> 00:14:16.440You want to wear clothes that wick away that moisture.26000:14:17.760 --> 00:14:21.300You want to put body glide on areas that chafe.26100:14:21.500 --> 00:14:25.140You don't want to chafe because your skin is doing this for 26 miles.26200:14:25.560 --> 00:14:26.080Sure.26300:14:26.380 --> 00:14:30.840Well, I was on this half marathon and about five, six miles in, I realized that26400:14:30.840 --> 00:14:35.320my shirt was rubbing against my chest and I was starting to bleed a little bit26500:14:35.320 --> 00:14:36.920in the chest area.26600:14:37.200 --> 00:14:37.300Oh no.26700:14:37.740 --> 00:14:45.040So you learn really quickly to put a little tape or they sell things for guys26800:14:45.040 --> 00:14:45.720that run.26900:14:45.880 --> 00:14:47.220Band-Aids or something, sure.27000:14:47.360 --> 00:14:48.280Yeah, a little Band-Aid.27100:14:48.680 --> 00:14:52.080So that was a learning experience for me.27200:14:54.400 --> 00:14:58.940But the other mistake a lot of people make on marathons is they train with27300:14:58.940 --> 00:15:02.160certain kind of drinks, whatever kind of hydration drink they have.27400:15:02.860 --> 00:15:05.020And then on the marathon day, they drink something totally different.27500:15:05.840 --> 00:15:06.620You can't do that.27600:15:06.940 --> 00:15:10.800You have to stick with what you've trained on because your stomach's not used27700:15:10.800 --> 00:15:12.680to if you train with this.27800:15:13.520 --> 00:15:17.260And so it's kind of a rookie mistake for runners to try to drink something27900:15:17.260 --> 00:15:19.240totally different or eat different food.28000:15:20.320 --> 00:15:22.260So it's a whole discipline.28100:15:22.800 --> 00:15:23.280Sure.28200:15:23.540 --> 00:15:27.440I think, Wayne, there's a lot about setting goals and meeting goals too.28300:15:28.600 --> 00:15:28.760Right.28400:15:28.760 --> 00:15:36.180If you can train for a marathon, be consistent in your training.28500:15:36.480 --> 00:15:38.500You shouldn't just get up and run a marathon.28600:15:39.080 --> 00:15:39.820You could hurt yourself.28700:15:41.240 --> 00:15:41.340Right.28800:15:41.340 --> 00:15:41.580Oh, sure.28900:15:41.580 --> 00:15:48.600So the practice of setting goals, sticking to a regimen, meeting those goals29000:15:48.600 --> 00:15:54.140and achieving those goals, it's more than just running a marathon.29100:15:54.520 --> 00:15:58.120It shows the character of who you are, I think, a little bit too.29200:15:58.860 --> 00:15:59.380Right.29300:15:59.860 --> 00:16:00.180Okay.29400:16:00.280 --> 00:16:07.040So if I were to make the decision to run the Houston Marathon next January,29500:16:07.100 --> 00:16:12.040when would I need to start training and what would the training escalation be29600:16:12.040 --> 00:16:12.760from day one?29700:16:13.780 --> 00:16:17.520Yeah, there's plenty of training guides for you out there.29800:16:18.220 --> 00:16:23.220But I'd probably say you'd probably want to start about six months out.29900:16:23.540 --> 00:16:29.700That might be a little bit too far, but there's no sense in waiting.30000:16:29.880 --> 00:16:36.340Six months, start looking at your diet, thinking about maybe every pound you30100:16:36.340 --> 00:16:40.580lose, not that you need to lose weight, but every pound is more pressure on30200:16:40.580 --> 00:16:41.000your feet.30300:16:42.000 --> 00:16:43.900There's a pressure on your feet.30400:16:44.860 --> 00:16:49.680So when you make those steps, there's a downward motion that happens in the, I30500:16:49.680 --> 00:16:51.960forget the word, the downward pressure.30600:16:53.460 --> 00:16:55.140So start that.30700:16:55.900 --> 00:16:59.840And then start, there's something called Couch to 5K.30800:17:00.300 --> 00:17:01.460It's an app out there.30900:17:03.920 --> 00:17:06.920Start, how do you get to a 5K, which is 3.2 miles?31000:17:07.800 --> 00:17:09.160Then how do you get to a 10K?31100:17:09.440 --> 00:17:10.240How do you get to a half?31200:17:10.540 --> 00:17:14.859And really, you're attempting to get all the way to your long run, which would31300:17:14.859 --> 00:17:16.859be about, I think, three weeks before the marathon.31400:17:18.280 --> 00:17:21.200And your long run would be about 20, 21, 22 miles.31500:17:22.140 --> 00:17:25.140And if you can make that, then you're good for 26.31600:17:26.140 --> 00:17:26.300Okay.31700:17:26.859 --> 00:17:30.880So you worked your way up, but you're putting a lot of miles in over the six31800:17:30.880 --> 00:17:34.040months as you get ready and get your heart in shape.31900:17:34.140 --> 00:17:37.520And you learn about the shoes and learn about the tape and that sort of stuff.32000:17:38.200 --> 00:17:41.720But you also want to get your heart checked out.32100:17:42.440 --> 00:17:46.980Last thing, there was a marathon I was just at recently.32200:17:47.760 --> 00:17:53.060As a spectator, there was a couple medical incidents on the course.32300:17:54.060 --> 00:18:01.080So we always recommend as a runner, just to go to your GP and get a checkup and32400:18:01.080 --> 00:18:03.660go to your cardiologist and just have them do a workup.32500:18:04.200 --> 00:18:05.200Just check everything out.32600:18:05.440 --> 00:18:06.140There's no harm.32700:18:06.620 --> 00:18:09.020Spend $100 and then do that.32800:18:09.060 --> 00:18:11.560So you know that you're healthy and ready to take on this exercise.32900:18:12.840 --> 00:18:13.240Yeah.33000:18:13.240 --> 00:18:13.640Okay.33100:18:13.720 --> 00:18:14.500Two questions.33200:18:14.640 --> 00:18:16.280What was your last meal the night?33300:18:16.400 --> 00:18:18.840Do you eat the morning of, or do you eat something?33400:18:19.260 --> 00:18:20.720What do you eat the night before?33500:18:21.160 --> 00:18:22.360What's your last meal the night before?33600:18:22.380 --> 00:18:23.500The night before, eat light.33700:18:24.140 --> 00:18:26.200For me, it's usually a couple pieces of pizza.33800:18:27.360 --> 00:18:28.960Oh, nice, nice.33900:18:29.080 --> 00:18:31.480And lots of water, hydration.34000:18:32.720 --> 00:18:32.960Sure.34100:18:33.080 --> 00:18:37.600And, or some pasta, but not an overly amount because what comes in, what must34200:18:37.600 --> 00:18:38.180go out.34300:18:38.180 --> 00:18:40.300So you want to don't overdo it.34400:18:41.400 --> 00:18:41.600Okay.34500:18:41.700 --> 00:18:44.880What's the hydration drink of choice for Brian?34600:18:45.460 --> 00:18:47.580I like Propel or Noon.34700:18:48.700 --> 00:18:49.320Oh, yeah.34800:18:49.480 --> 00:18:51.300We have the Noon capsules.34900:18:51.440 --> 00:18:52.520We keep those here.35000:18:52.620 --> 00:18:52.820Yep.35100:18:53.120 --> 00:18:53.300Yeah.35200:18:53.300 --> 00:18:54.600I'm a big fan of both of those.35300:18:55.200 --> 00:18:56.680There's a thousand of them out there.35400:18:57.000 --> 00:18:59.360Everyone finds, you know, you'll find one that you like, one that you don't35500:18:59.360 --> 00:19:01.520like, one that tastes like John McBoney-like.35600:19:03.040 --> 00:19:07.080In the morning of, for me, again, I've only done five, so I'm not an expert,35700:19:07.080 --> 00:19:10.060but usually like half a bagel and a little bit of banana.35800:19:11.620 --> 00:19:13.320And then you eat along the course.35900:19:13.480 --> 00:19:17.160You keep nutrition in your little bag that you brought along, of course.36000:19:17.960 --> 00:19:24.600I don't know if the bodegas in New York have this magnitude of merchandise to36100:19:24.600 --> 00:19:27.200pick from, but it seemed like our little convenience stores, which have gotten36200:19:27.200 --> 00:19:28.400very fancy down here.36300:19:28.900 --> 00:19:30.780You may have heard of Buc-ee's down here.36400:19:30.900 --> 00:19:34.180Buc-ee's is a real- They're building a brand new Buc-ee's in Florida.36500:19:34.480 --> 00:19:36.720The largest one in the world is in Florida.36600:19:36.920 --> 00:19:37.780It opens in 2027.36700:19:38.040 --> 00:19:41.680Well, it is something to see.36800:19:43.060 --> 00:19:45.040You can get enough of it real quick.36900:19:45.160 --> 00:19:51.180But anyway, they have, I can't, it's mind-boggling how much floor space is37000:19:51.180 --> 00:19:59.200dedicated to salty, crunchy snacks, chips of all kinds, and two or three walls37100:19:59.200 --> 00:20:06.980of drinks, of fake water, real water, which still boggles my mind that a bottle37200:20:06.980 --> 00:20:08.880of water costs more than a gallon of gas.37300:20:08.980 --> 00:20:11.520But anyway, that's out of, way above my pay grade.37400:20:11.780 --> 00:20:14.980But yeah, so a lot of choices, things to pick from.37500:20:16.020 --> 00:20:24.820The meal thing, if things went terribly wrong for you and you were about to37600:20:24.820 --> 00:20:26.740have your last meal, what would it be?37700:20:29.380 --> 00:20:33.240If you ignored your upbringing, the prayers of your mother and your37800:20:33.240 --> 00:20:37.460grandmother, and something went really bad, and Brian Boyd's about to have his37900:20:37.460 --> 00:20:38.820final meal, what would it be?38000:20:39.440 --> 00:20:40.780That's an interesting question, Wayne.38100:20:46.080 --> 00:20:48.480There's a couple things come to mind.38200:20:49.940 --> 00:20:54.440My dad, who I lost this last- I know it's not something you've thought about or38300:20:54.440 --> 00:20:56.800entertained, and will not ever have to entertain.38400:20:57.000 --> 00:20:57.660It's interesting.38500:20:58.520 --> 00:21:08.040My dad, who I lost last year at 98, was an amazing pancake maker, and taught me38600:21:08.040 --> 00:21:08.900how to make pancakes.38700:21:10.180 --> 00:21:15.800And I do like a good pancake with fluffy, crunchy edges.38800:21:17.640 --> 00:21:18.840As many as you want.38900:21:18.960 --> 00:21:20.080You wouldn't have to worry about it.39000:21:21.140 --> 00:21:21.820Those are good.39100:21:22.680 --> 00:21:28.860I'm also a big fan of medium-rare, rare, prime red, with a straight39200:21:28.860 --> 00:21:29.560horseradish.39300:21:29.980 --> 00:21:31.100Not that creamy horseradish.39400:21:31.780 --> 00:21:34.880But straight horseradish, and a baked potato.39500:21:35.500 --> 00:21:39.960So probably would lean towards the prime red and a baked potato.39600:21:40.760 --> 00:21:45.640Baked potato with all the fixings on it, and the horseradish would definitely39700:21:45.640 --> 00:21:48.620clear your nose where you could breathe that last few breaths.39800:21:48.620 --> 00:21:48.740I love horseradish.39900:21:48.940 --> 00:21:49.880Really good.40000:21:51.000 --> 00:21:53.520Tell me about your time at ORU.40100:21:55.040 --> 00:21:58.320Over the years, I've had a lot of friends that came from ORU.40200:21:59.500 --> 00:22:03.980I remember playing in Tulsa a lot, on the campus a couple of times.40300:22:04.440 --> 00:22:10.840Being on the show with the Oral and Richard, and I think at the time, Patty40400:22:10.840 --> 00:22:11.580Roberts.40500:22:12.320 --> 00:22:13.120Oh, that was before my time.40600:22:13.280 --> 00:22:13.900Yeah, yep.40700:22:14.180 --> 00:22:14.920It was, yeah.40800:22:15.480 --> 00:22:19.320And I don't know if you were there, if they still had the hospital building40900:22:19.320 --> 00:22:20.440with the big praying hands.41000:22:20.440 --> 00:22:22.120Oh yeah, that was there for the grand opening and everything.41100:22:22.120 --> 00:22:23.420Yeah, yeah.41200:22:23.480 --> 00:22:29.820And now, without getting into anything, not interested in digging up any bones,41300:22:29.940 --> 00:22:31.420but what happened with that?41400:22:31.540 --> 00:22:41.180That was a grand venture that I think they wanted that to be a41500:22:41.180 --> 00:22:41.660hospital.41600:22:42.200 --> 00:22:42.960How many floors?41700:22:43.080 --> 00:22:44.680It had to be 20 or 30 floors.41800:22:45.100 --> 00:22:46.800It was a very big building.41900:22:46.980 --> 00:22:47.42050?42000:22:47.460 --> 00:22:48.420Yes, 60.42100:22:48.700 --> 00:22:50.760The middle tower was 60 floors.42200:22:51.320 --> 00:22:51.420Yeah.42300:22:51.420 --> 00:22:52.040Yeah.42400:22:52.360 --> 00:22:59.220They wanted that to be a hospital with a really benevolent position of how to42500:22:59.220 --> 00:23:02.340take care of people, what to charge people, and things like that.42600:23:02.880 --> 00:23:05.940Do you know the backstory of whatever happened to the building?42700:23:06.180 --> 00:23:07.820Whatever happened to that building?42800:23:07.880 --> 00:23:08.520Yeah, a little bit.42900:23:08.760 --> 00:23:13.600Oral, if you drive up to the campus, there's two big bronze hands in front of43000:23:13.600 --> 00:23:14.160the campus.43100:23:14.500 --> 00:23:15.300They're giant.43200:23:15.320 --> 00:23:17.780They're 50 feet tall or something.43300:23:18.370 --> 00:23:18.620Right.43400:23:18.620 --> 00:23:23.160And one is the hand of prayer and one is the hand of medicine, and they do43500:23:23.160 --> 00:23:23.360this.43600:23:23.940 --> 00:23:29.660Because Oral, I'm paraphrasing, but Oral believed that doctors are led by God43700:23:29.660 --> 00:23:30.940and they have the...43800:23:30.940 --> 00:23:31.220Sure.43900:23:33.400 --> 00:23:36.300He directs their paths and steps, and why not?44000:23:36.520 --> 00:23:36.740Right.44100:23:36.780 --> 00:23:37.780And I think that's great.44200:23:38.580 --> 00:23:43.280So, I believe, to the best of my recollection, that was the dream of building a44300:23:43.280 --> 00:23:49.200city of faith, is to have faith-filled doctors and faith-filled faculty taking44400:23:49.200 --> 00:23:50.180care of medical needs.44500:23:51.120 --> 00:23:52.560It didn't quite take off.44600:23:52.840 --> 00:23:58.080I don't know all the reasons why it couldn't make money, but they ended up44700:23:58.080 --> 00:24:00.680leasing the space out to different organizations.44800:24:01.660 --> 00:24:07.200Recently, I think a little hospital took one of the towers, and now I believe44900:24:07.200 --> 00:24:13.080it's quite a thing.45000:24:13.760 --> 00:24:15.040So, it's transitioned.45100:24:15.640 --> 00:24:17.340There's some medical stuff there.45200:24:17.900 --> 00:24:22.060There's a lot of just standard office complex people there too.45300:24:22.760 --> 00:24:29.760So, it's quite a landmark in Tulsa.45400:24:30.420 --> 00:24:34.140And as far as I recall correctly, it's actually a revenue generator for the45500:24:34.140 --> 00:24:35.460university now, which is a good thing.45600:24:36.060 --> 00:24:36.320Right.45700:24:37.140 --> 00:24:43.980Tell me about CCB Marketing and how that came to be and your reach from the45800:24:43.980 --> 00:24:47.340people I've spoken with you and some of your team all over the world.45900:24:47.500 --> 00:24:52.960Tell me how you went from being a cameraman in Seattle and dubbing VHS tapes in46000:24:52.960 --> 00:24:55.720New York City to CCB Marketing.46100:24:55.860 --> 00:24:56.800What was that journey?46200:24:57.540 --> 00:24:58.380That's a...46300:24:58.380 --> 00:24:59.860This is an interesting story.46400:25:00.800 --> 00:25:07.480So, we were living in New York.46500:25:08.120 --> 00:25:10.660I was doing the dubbing.46600:25:11.480 --> 00:25:16.860Then I migrated to a satellite communications company, and I was still on46700:25:16.860 --> 00:25:21.240broadcasting on the satellite side, moving video on satellite different46800:25:21.240 --> 00:25:21.800locations.46900:25:23.600 --> 00:25:28.780And then I moved into the IT part of that as I got promoted and moved around.47000:25:29.160 --> 00:25:30.820And so, I wasn't actually physically doing stuff.47100:25:30.980 --> 00:25:35.700I was more in IT and management and a little bit of marketing and stuff like47200:25:35.700 --> 00:25:35.900that.47300:25:37.700 --> 00:25:44.840And on 9-11, we lived about two blocks from World Trade Center.47400:25:46.120 --> 00:25:50.080And I went to work that day on Wall Street at this communications company I47500:25:50.080 --> 00:25:50.540worked at.47600:25:51.160 --> 00:25:56.420And my wife called and said, Hey, Brian, a plane just flew into the World Trade47700:25:56.420 --> 00:25:56.680Center.47800:25:57.900 --> 00:26:01.060And I remember thinking, Well, that stinks.47900:26:01.720 --> 00:26:05.600How did the plane get off track and get lost and fly into a building?48000:26:06.860 --> 00:26:08.520And I said, Where are you?48100:26:08.620 --> 00:26:11.360She goes, I just dropped off the kids at school.48200:26:12.640 --> 00:26:15.940And the school was about a block and a half from World Trade Center.48300:26:16.960 --> 00:26:19.680And so, I said, Hang out there.48400:26:21.220 --> 00:26:24.180And let's just make sure the kids are okay, something like that.48500:26:25.080 --> 00:26:28.040So, then I walk around my office to the windows.48600:26:28.680 --> 00:26:31.480I'm looking at this fire in the World Trade Center.48700:26:32.040 --> 00:26:35.660And I see plane number two, right into the World Trade Center.48800:26:38.280 --> 00:26:39.540So, then I try calling Fran.48900:26:39.800 --> 00:26:40.760I can't get a hold of her.49000:26:41.740 --> 00:26:42.820The phones are...49100:26:42.820 --> 00:26:43.440Nothing's working.49200:26:44.420 --> 00:26:46.460And I said, Well, last thing I said was stay at the school.49300:26:46.940 --> 00:26:49.220So, I looked at my job.49400:26:49.700 --> 00:26:51.120I think, Should I leave my job?49500:26:52.800 --> 00:26:54.360Heck yeah, I should leave my job.49600:26:54.900 --> 00:26:59.160So, I start running to find my wife and the kids.49700:26:59.900 --> 00:27:03.460But from where I'm at to where she's at, the World Trade Center is right in the49800:27:03.460 --> 00:27:03.640middle.49900:27:04.440 --> 00:27:08.460I actually made a beeline right through the World Trade Center complex to find50000:27:08.460 --> 00:27:08.680her.50100:27:10.220 --> 00:27:14.520And once I got there, they said, Well, she's already left for the day.50200:27:14.640 --> 00:27:15.200She already left.50300:27:15.280 --> 00:27:16.600She took the kids and she's gone.50400:27:16.900 --> 00:27:17.240I said, Great.50500:27:17.580 --> 00:27:17.960She's safe.50600:27:18.980 --> 00:27:23.340So, long story short, I go to my apartment.50700:27:23.700 --> 00:27:25.240I changed my clothes real quickly.50800:27:25.560 --> 00:27:29.340I'm just catching my breath when the first tower collapses.50900:27:30.520 --> 00:27:34.820So, then I start running up the highway to escape the tower when the second51000:27:34.820 --> 00:27:35.540tower collapses.51100:27:35.540 --> 00:27:36.800And it's just coming.51200:27:36.920 --> 00:27:37.880I've got photos by the way.51300:27:38.000 --> 00:27:40.720I took pictures this day of everything I saw.51400:27:42.440 --> 00:27:44.960So, we finally regrouped later that day.51500:27:45.500 --> 00:27:49.940Later that afternoon, I found my wife through...51600:27:49.940 --> 00:27:51.720I called somebody in Michigan.51700:27:52.260 --> 00:27:52.900Oh my God.51800:27:52.900 --> 00:27:56.340And they called someone else and I was able to connect to find my wife where51900:27:56.340 --> 00:27:56.800she was staying.52000:27:59.120 --> 00:28:00.940But then where do we live?52100:28:01.300 --> 00:28:02.000We can't go home.52200:28:02.560 --> 00:28:06.220Our home is in the crime scene zone.52300:28:07.080 --> 00:28:10.880So, we ended up going to a hotel in Columbus Circle.52400:28:11.700 --> 00:28:13.420And we stayed there until Christmas time.52500:28:13.880 --> 00:28:16.680So, we lived in a hotel from September 11th until Christmas.52600:28:17.740 --> 00:28:20.900And through a series of miracles, we didn't have to pay a penny for that.52700:28:20.980 --> 00:28:25.460It was all covered by FEMA and by our renter's insurance at the time.52800:28:25.640 --> 00:28:28.840And a gracious reduction in rates by the hotel.52900:28:29.160 --> 00:28:29.340Sure.53000:28:29.700 --> 00:28:29.980Sure.53100:28:31.160 --> 00:28:34.080So, while we're in the hotel, my company shut us down.53200:28:34.660 --> 00:28:36.420So, I'm getting to a point here.53300:28:37.280 --> 00:28:42.700Well, I want to come back and I want to ask some more questions about the fact53400:28:42.700 --> 00:28:47.780that you were on the site and you ran through the site before the buildings53500:28:47.780 --> 00:28:48.340collapsed.53600:28:48.460 --> 00:28:49.920You ran through the site trying to...53700:28:49.920 --> 00:28:50.020Yeah.53800:28:50.020 --> 00:28:52.360It was still on fire and they were...53900:28:53.780 --> 00:28:57.900I didn't even know, but I found out later an engine from an airplane had landed54000:28:57.900 --> 00:29:00.900just behind me as I was running through.54100:29:01.720 --> 00:29:03.940In fact, I can show you today the path I ran.54200:29:04.200 --> 00:29:05.480It's down the streets again.54300:29:06.840 --> 00:29:07.040But...54400:29:07.040 --> 00:29:08.580Well, those of us who...54500:29:08.580 --> 00:29:11.620I remember, of course, watching it on television that morning.54600:29:13.540 --> 00:29:19.020And we saw the beautiful blue sky and people looking up and not knowing what's54700:29:19.020 --> 00:29:19.600going on.54800:29:19.660 --> 00:29:24.600And the thousands of people that were on the bridges trying to get out of54900:29:24.600 --> 00:29:26.240Manhattan, walking out of Manhattan.55000:29:26.560 --> 00:29:28.240So, you went which way?55100:29:28.360 --> 00:29:29.460North to Columbus Circle?55200:29:29.460 --> 00:29:30.860I went north on West Side Highway.55300:29:31.000 --> 00:29:31.200Yeah.55400:29:31.380 --> 00:29:32.400North to Columbus Circle.55500:29:33.340 --> 00:29:33.540Yeah.55600:29:33.660 --> 00:29:33.900Okay.55700:29:34.440 --> 00:29:39.460So, your company basically shut down because of all that and the chaos?55800:29:39.460 --> 00:29:39.800Yeah.55900:29:40.320 --> 00:29:40.540Yeah.56000:29:40.640 --> 00:29:41.000They were...56100:29:41.000 --> 00:29:42.280Many other companies probably.56200:29:42.800 --> 00:29:43.140Yeah.56300:29:43.240 --> 00:29:44.780There was a lot economically.56400:29:45.260 --> 00:29:45.460Yeah.56500:29:45.860 --> 00:29:49.200So, we're in a hotel and we have no job.56600:29:49.200 --> 00:29:51.440For all intents and purposes, we have no home.56700:29:52.500 --> 00:29:54.300And Fran's like, well, you've got a Rolodex.56800:29:54.800 --> 00:29:59.060And again, for those of you watching, a Rolodex is a series of cards where you56900:29:59.060 --> 00:30:00.840put people's phone numbers on and it does this.57000:30:00.840 --> 00:30:02.040I don't think I have one anymore.57100:30:02.140 --> 00:30:02.320Yeah.57200:30:02.540 --> 00:30:02.640Yeah.57300:30:02.800 --> 00:30:02.960Yeah.57400:30:03.340 --> 00:30:08.900So, we started our first company, IT company in this hotel doing IT consulting.57500:30:10.080 --> 00:30:13.380Well, 2007, we noticed...57600:30:13.380 --> 00:30:15.320We got...57700:30:15.320 --> 00:30:18.020We saw social media coming of age.57800:30:19.220 --> 00:30:23.160And we said, well, let's expand and start helping people with social media57900:30:23.160 --> 00:30:23.680efforts.58000:30:25.080 --> 00:30:26.960So, we called a couple people.58100:30:27.100 --> 00:30:28.220I generated a couple clients.58200:30:28.760 --> 00:30:30.380And we built a social media company.58300:30:31.200 --> 00:30:36.380In 2017, we sold that company and created CCB Marketing, where now social media58400:30:36.380 --> 00:30:39.920is just one of a dozen marketing disciplines that we support.58500:30:39.920 --> 00:30:40.360Right.58600:30:41.080 --> 00:30:51.280Social media, podcasting, web, advertising, all areas of marketing, direct58700:30:51.280 --> 00:30:51.780email.58800:30:53.020 --> 00:30:58.620And we can come in and build strategies and execute strategies for clients and58900:30:58.620 --> 00:31:00.640really come in and help their marketing efforts.59000:31:00.760 --> 00:31:03.120A lot of times, you come in and do an audit of the company.59100:31:03.520 --> 00:31:07.140And then that audit helps us figure out what areas to help them.59200:31:07.660 --> 00:31:07.880Right.59300:31:08.340 --> 00:31:11.040How did you assemble this team around the world?59400:31:11.160 --> 00:31:15.540You have a couple who live in South Africa that I've met via Zoom.59500:31:16.080 --> 00:31:21.580And how did you recruit and populate your company with these great people?59600:31:21.740 --> 00:31:23.580It's really a series of miracles.59700:31:24.440 --> 00:31:34.060We have staff in South Africa, in Tokyo, in Bahrain, in Hyderabad, India,59800:31:35.060 --> 00:31:42.720in the Carolinas, on the West Coast, in Florida, and in New York.59900:31:43.220 --> 00:31:43.740In Nashville.60000:31:43.900 --> 00:31:48.160And everyone I've personally hired, they are people from the internet.60100:31:48.440 --> 00:31:51.900They're not Fiverr people or some of the people I've met.60200:31:53.020 --> 00:31:56.060And you don't have to be religious.60300:31:56.420 --> 00:31:57.580God always provides.60400:31:57.720 --> 00:32:02.200If we need a certain kind of person, so I have my sister or my cousin or I know60500:32:02.200 --> 00:32:02.680this person.60600:32:02.980 --> 00:32:05.480And so we're able to put together a team.60700:32:05.600 --> 00:32:06.900So it's an amazing team.60800:32:07.580 --> 00:32:09.940Some of our team members have been in this since the very beginning, since60900:32:09.940 --> 00:32:10.5002007.61000:32:11.680 --> 00:32:13.500And we just have...61100:32:13.500 --> 00:32:16.760I put this team of marketers up against anybody in the world.61200:32:17.320 --> 00:32:22.540The best marketing minds that exist.61300:32:22.740 --> 00:32:25.020They're just really, really smart and really proud of them.61400:32:26.460 --> 00:32:30.140You want to talk about some of the clients that you represent?61500:32:30.300 --> 00:32:31.940Would that be appropriate?61600:32:32.020 --> 00:32:32.180Yeah.61700:32:32.300 --> 00:32:33.440We've done quite a bit.61800:32:33.880 --> 00:32:36.560We've done a lot in the nonprofit space.61900:32:36.720 --> 00:32:39.060We've done also in corporate America.62000:32:40.340 --> 00:32:43.980Our first big corporate client was a company called Rodale Publishing in New62100:32:43.980 --> 00:32:44.360York City.62200:32:45.160 --> 00:32:48.580And Rodale Publishing published Women's Health Magazine and Cycling Magazine62300:32:48.580 --> 00:32:50.620and Men's Health Magazine and Prevention Magazine.62400:32:50.960 --> 00:32:55.060We helped them set up their entire marketing, social media marketing strategy.62500:32:56.500 --> 00:33:00.440On the face side, one of our nonprofits, some of our first clients was OOC62600:33:00.440 --> 00:33:04.780Ministries in Houston, Texas, where we came in and set up their whole marketing62700:33:04.780 --> 00:33:05.340strategy.62800:33:06.080 --> 00:33:09.180But we've worked for organizations that feed the hungry.62900:33:09.820 --> 00:33:13.540We've worked for organizations that are a lot of authors.63000:33:13.920 --> 00:33:15.420We've worked with a lot of authors over the years.63100:33:16.700 --> 00:33:22.920We are a podcasting division, produces a couple dozen podcasts with nearly a63200:33:22.920 --> 00:33:26.240million downloads weekly across our podcast network.63300:33:27.520 --> 00:33:34.300And just a whole variety of organizations that need...63400:33:34.300 --> 00:33:36.220That have said, Hey, we have a marketing...63500:33:36.220 --> 00:33:37.940We know we have a marketing issue.63600:33:38.040 --> 00:33:41.700We need help with marketing healthcare, retail.63700:33:43.120 --> 00:33:47.300We've done a great successful project for Netflix for a movie in 2022.63800:33:47.800 --> 00:33:49.020It went really, really well.63900:33:49.260 --> 00:33:52.320So really varied clients.64000:33:55.700 --> 00:33:57.480Are magazines still a thing?64100:33:58.380 --> 00:34:00.720You talked about Rodale Publishing that...64200:34:01.840 --> 00:34:07.820I mean, my routine to go to the airport used to be, first of all, get to the64300:34:07.820 --> 00:34:10.020airport two hours early, even before 9-11.64400:34:10.699 --> 00:34:15.699My dad was a very disciplined early arriver, early leaver.64500:34:15.840 --> 00:34:18.100If we're leaving at nine, we leave at five to nine.64600:34:19.380 --> 00:34:24.080I end up waiting on people a lot because most people are not on time people.64700:34:25.659 --> 00:34:29.840Sometimes it's impossible, but I would go to the airport.64800:34:30.120 --> 00:34:32.840I would get a USA Today and a Houston Chronicle.64900:34:33.000 --> 00:34:36.960Then the Houston Chronicle back then, the main newspaper here was a big65000:34:36.960 --> 00:34:39.120newspaper with lots of stuff in it.65100:34:39.219 --> 00:34:42.159And now it is paper thin with very, very little.65200:34:42.480 --> 00:34:46.199Most people don't read them, but I would go and get a couple of...65300:34:46.199 --> 00:34:51.360Men's Health Magazine was one, New Yorker was one, and just the Atlantic was65400:34:51.360 --> 00:34:52.199one that I would get.65500:34:52.900 --> 00:34:53.820Just great writing.65600:34:55.719 --> 00:35:02.700And I just wonder, as people thought when Blockbuster Video came online, people65700:35:02.700 --> 00:35:04.360thought, well, movie theaters are done.65800:35:04.720 --> 00:35:05.920It's over for them.65900:35:06.540 --> 00:35:08.260And that's, of course, not the case.66000:35:08.440 --> 00:35:12.200And Blockbuster Video is now no more because we don't need to go to the store66100:35:12.200 --> 00:35:14.140to rent video cassettes.66200:35:14.860 --> 00:35:21.520But I just wonder, what is the trend that you're seeing business-wise from66300:35:21.520 --> 00:35:24.740things you've represented in the past to where things are going?66400:35:24.860 --> 00:35:26.920What is your future as a marketing company?66500:35:27.120 --> 00:35:31.380What do you think the elements of needing marketing assistance in the future66600:35:31.380 --> 00:35:31.780will be?66700:35:31.900 --> 00:35:36.180Obviously, social media, podcasts, things like that.66800:35:36.620 --> 00:35:36.720Yeah.66900:35:36.720 --> 00:35:40.740We always study the demographic of who the client is.67000:35:42.460 --> 00:35:47.360Talking about magazines, yeah, I subscribe to Apple News+.67100:35:47.360 --> 00:35:48.520It's one of the...67200:35:48.520 --> 00:35:51.980If you're a Mac user, it's one of the Mac things.67300:35:51.980 --> 00:35:52.980It's called News.67400:35:53.660 --> 00:35:55.380And I get all my magazines free there.67500:35:55.680 --> 00:35:57.620I can read any magazine I want anytime.67600:35:59.560 --> 00:36:00.940I know the stat.67700:36:01.020 --> 00:36:03.780I didn't come prepared, but more people look at their news from TikTok than67800:36:03.780 --> 00:36:05.440from anywhere else or something like that nowadays.67900:36:06.880 --> 00:36:06.980Wow.68000:36:07.260 --> 00:36:12.520So for us, marketing-wise, we look at the client, we look at who their68100:36:12.520 --> 00:36:15.500demographic is, and then we find the right platforms where that demographic68200:36:15.500 --> 00:36:16.140should be.68300:36:16.900 --> 00:36:24.400So if your demo is a 55-year-old, middle America, that would lean towards68400:36:24.400 --> 00:36:26.860Facebook and targeted ads, for instance.68500:36:28.680 --> 00:36:33.460If it's Gen Z or Gen Alpha, then it's TikTok and Instagram.68600:36:35.780 --> 00:36:40.600Or if you're in the middle, it could be a podcast that reaches the most people.68700:36:41.600 --> 00:36:43.320So it's a mix and match of those things.68800:36:44.120 --> 00:36:47.720So for us, we don't want to put a Gen Zer on Facebook.68900:36:47.920 --> 00:36:48.540That's not going to work.69000:36:49.120 --> 00:36:52.460Because Gen Zs don't really pay attention to that platform.69100:36:53.160 --> 00:36:58.660So for us, it's a matter of building the right platform based on the69200:36:58.660 --> 00:37:01.400demographics of the user in a nutshell.69300:37:03.800 --> 00:37:09.620The thing I've noticed about Instagram, TikTok, any of those sites, and I'm69400:37:09.620 --> 00:37:13.460sure there are others that I've never heard of that my children and69500:37:13.460 --> 00:37:21.000grandchildren would know better than I, the one thing that is most evident to69600:37:21.000 --> 00:37:24.160me is the lack of accountability on these things.69700:37:24.720 --> 00:37:30.080Not just the lack of accountability of misleading people astray, with these69800:37:30.080 --> 00:37:33.100TikTok challenges where they encourage kids to...69900:37:33.100 --> 00:37:36.200I mean, my wife is an administrator at a school, at a public school.70000:37:36.840 --> 00:37:42.300And at one point, there was a TikTok challenge or something where kids would go70100:37:42.300 --> 00:37:47.720in and knock the hand dryer off the wall, just knock it off the wall.70200:37:48.020 --> 00:37:50.580And they would do it by the thousands and thousands.70300:37:50.720 --> 00:37:52.000But that's not what I'm talking about.70400:37:52.000 --> 00:37:53.140That's obvious.70500:37:53.680 --> 00:37:58.000But what I'm talking about is people making claims for products, this will do70600:37:58.000 --> 00:37:59.720this, and it will not do that.70700:37:59.720 --> 00:38:00.840That's a huge problem, Wayne.70800:38:01.140 --> 00:38:05.680In fact, yesterday, I read that almost 20% of YouTube videos are now AI70900:38:05.680 --> 00:38:06.220generated.71000:38:08.120 --> 00:38:12.600And on the news this week, Oprah Winfrey made a statement.71100:38:12.880 --> 00:38:15.720She said, listen, if you see a product with my name on it, it's not me.71200:38:16.360 --> 00:38:21.020Because they're using deep fakes to Oprah Winfrey saying, take this file and71300:38:21.020 --> 00:38:21.840then or something like that.71400:38:22.560 --> 00:38:25.460So you have to be discerning.71500:38:26.700 --> 00:38:34.480And for all of the ad, I suppose there is some good out there too.71600:38:35.300 --> 00:38:39.480I've seen stories of people finding lost loved ones on social media.71700:38:39.660 --> 00:38:42.400I've seen stories of dogs getting re-homed.71800:38:42.720 --> 00:38:45.540They're a lost dog and they've gotten re-homed and they found their owner.71900:38:46.960 --> 00:38:54.080For our nonprofit clients, we did a roundtable this last week where I paired up72000:38:54.080 --> 00:39:00.640one of our clients who's in the faith space, he's in the 80s, with four Gen72100:39:00.640 --> 00:39:01.100Zers.72200:39:01.740 --> 00:39:05.700And they talked about how they use social media to send out good information to72300:39:05.700 --> 00:39:07.360provide as a good platform.72400:39:08.560 --> 00:39:12.100So it's how you use it.72500:39:12.460 --> 00:39:16.300I'm sure you remember, Wayne, when TV first came out.72600:39:16.540 --> 00:39:17.280Well, I don't remember.72700:39:17.420 --> 00:39:18.780I'm not saying you should remember that.72800:39:19.240 --> 00:39:26.720But my grandmother told me a story that when the TV came and there was rabbit72900:39:26.720 --> 00:39:31.500ears, the antenna was rabbit ears on top, that those were the devil's horns.73000:39:31.540 --> 00:39:32.380I remember those, sure.73100:39:33.160 --> 00:39:35.220The Jewish called them the devil's horns.73200:39:35.340 --> 00:39:35.440Oh, wow.73300:39:35.440 --> 00:39:35.660Grandma.73400:39:36.390 --> 00:39:36.680Yeah.73500:39:37.360 --> 00:39:42.120And I remember my grandmother saying, when makeup was first coming out, they73600:39:42.120 --> 00:39:43.220couldn't wear makeup.73700:39:44.360 --> 00:39:50.720So I mean, TV in the whatever, 50s, maybe is...73800:39:50.720 --> 00:39:51.10050s, yeah.73900:39:51.260 --> 00:39:51.840Yeah.74000:39:52.040 --> 00:39:53.580Same thing like TikTok today.74100:39:54.100 --> 00:39:54.960So it's a medium.74200:39:56.000 --> 00:39:58.300And Billy Graham used TV for good.74300:39:59.060 --> 00:40:00.660Or Roberts used TV for good.74400:40:01.460 --> 00:40:04.180These guys learned how to communicate to a bigger audience.74500:40:05.220 --> 00:40:09.520So you can use these platforms to communicate your message to the right74600:40:09.520 --> 00:40:09.940audience.74700:40:12.620 --> 00:40:14.520I remember the first...74800:40:14.520 --> 00:40:16.340We used to...74900:40:16.340 --> 00:40:18.520They weren't reruns when I was a kid.75000:40:19.120 --> 00:40:21.200If you missed a show, you missed it.75100:40:21.580 --> 00:40:26.120And every year they would play The Wizard of Oz on some local channel.75200:40:26.260 --> 00:40:27.780I think we literally had three channels.75300:40:27.920 --> 00:40:31.780And then there was maybe one rogue UHF channel if you had the right rabbit ear75400:40:31.780 --> 00:40:32.240position.75500:40:32.560 --> 00:40:33.040Right, right.75600:40:33.040 --> 00:40:35.120They would show The Wizard of Oz.75700:40:35.380 --> 00:40:39.940And I remember when we got our first color TV and The Wizard of Oz came on.75800:40:40.020 --> 00:40:43.920And when she steps out of that house after the tornado and steps onto the75900:40:43.920 --> 00:40:45.720ground, it turned into color.76000:40:45.840 --> 00:40:47.820And it was just indescribable.76100:40:48.120 --> 00:40:50.940And I know people like, what are you talking about?76200:40:51.060 --> 00:40:54.280It just makes no sense to not have color everywhere.76300:40:54.640 --> 00:40:56.960But I remember that very well.76400:40:57.800 --> 00:41:00.120And like you say, we have to be discerning.76500:41:01.100 --> 00:41:07.560And I have lived my life assuming that most people are telling me the truth.76600:41:07.940 --> 00:41:09.400And that's my problem.76700:41:09.700 --> 00:41:13.080I have a problem right now because I have lived my life assuming you're telling76800:41:13.080 --> 00:41:13.680me the truth.76900:41:14.280 --> 00:41:18.900There was a newscaster that's very famous named Walter Cronkite.77000:41:19.080 --> 00:41:22.240And at the end of every broadcast, he would say, and that's the way it is.77100:41:22.380 --> 00:41:25.560And we believed that's the way it was.77200:41:25.620 --> 00:41:26.560It was not his opinion.77300:41:26.820 --> 00:41:28.880It was no commentary on that opinion.77400:41:29.040 --> 00:41:30.720It was just, this is the way it is.77500:41:31.280 --> 00:41:34.100And now you can't afford to be so naive.77600:41:34.500 --> 00:41:35.700And I hate that.77700:41:35.780 --> 00:41:38.280But this is the fact of the culture we live in.77800:41:38.320 --> 00:41:39.600We can't be quite so gullible.77900:41:39.960 --> 00:41:45.340So we have to have the spirit in us to help us discern this is not good.78000:41:45.940 --> 00:41:47.280This is, yeah, so.78100:41:47.560 --> 00:41:47.660Yeah.78200:41:47.740 --> 00:41:49.920Sometimes just the news is just too much too.78300:41:50.060 --> 00:41:53.740We'll watch the news at night, but after a little bit, we have to turn it off.78400:41:53.960 --> 00:41:55.200It's just too much.78500:41:56.100 --> 00:41:59.000I like to get the headlines, what's happening in the world, but I don't really78600:41:59.000 --> 00:42:00.480need all the commentary sometimes.78700:42:01.580 --> 00:42:02.060Yeah.78800:42:02.840 --> 00:42:07.020I usually watch the first five minutes to make sure nothing is terribly on fire78900:42:07.020 --> 00:42:07.880upside down.79000:42:08.200 --> 00:42:12.300And here locally, you know, Houston's a pretty good size town.79100:42:12.460 --> 00:42:17.200And if the lead story is about some apartment elevator that's not working, I79200:42:17.200 --> 00:42:20.200realize I can probably go to bed and it's going to be okay.79300:42:21.280 --> 00:42:28.680One of my favorite quotes from the church that I've been attending is in a book79400:42:28.680 --> 00:42:29.240of prayer.79500:42:29.680 --> 00:42:32.240And it says, only in thee can we dwell in safety.79600:42:32.760 --> 00:42:36.740And I think about that every time I close the door at night, I can lock the79700:42:36.740 --> 00:42:41.660door, I can live in a safe neighborhood, but only in thee can we dwell in79800:42:41.660 --> 00:42:42.000safety.79900:42:42.240 --> 00:42:46.180And so we trust that that's what keeps us safe.80000:42:46.980 --> 00:42:49.620So Brian, thank you so much.80100:42:49.680 --> 00:42:52.040This has been a great time to talk with you and catch up.80200:42:56.060 --> 00:42:58.060We went down roads I didn't know we'd go down.80300:42:58.900 --> 00:42:59.260Yeah.80400:43:00.660 --> 00:43:04.900Thanks for listening to The Wayne Watson Podcast, where stories of faith,80500:43:05.140 --> 00:43:10.100purpose, and everyday life meet and continue to uplift hearts around the world.80600:43:10.380 --> 00:43:14.260Be sure to follow, leave us a review, and share this episode with a friend.80700:43:14.380 --> 00:43:18.640To learn more about Wayne's music, ministry, and upcoming projects, visit80800:43:18.640 --> 00:43:20.280Waynewatson.com.80900:43:20.540 --> 00:43:25.180Every journey of faith begins with a story, and every heart finds its rhythm in81000:43:25.180 --> 00:43:25.620the Lord.81100:43:26.060 --> 00:43:31.100Until next time, go well, and may you keep walking in step with His song81200:43:31.100 --> 00:43:32.420flowing through you.