Royal Wood

Welcome to Treasure Island Discs.

Get ready to set sail with your host, Jeff Moffat, as we dive deep into the stories behind the music, one Treasure island disc at a time.

I see the sad souls Walking round With another bad day going down But I find myself here at your gate and I'm early.

I just couldn't wait.

You have this feeling when you're young, like these little, these moments that you're a part of, that they last forever and they, they, they, they just don't.

So now, like, especially because I, I try to be home as much as possible and I try to lean into being a family man first and foremost.

When I go on tour now and when I'm doing a show or when I'm in my studio or when a song presents itself or whatever that moment is.

Oh, I'm just trying to squeeze every last drop out of it.

Those are the words of wisdom and experience from an artist who has spent over 20 years writing, recording and touring the world.

He's a musician, producer, performer, songwriter, but most importantly, he's a husband and a father to two young boys.

After it's all said and done, Royal Wood has found peace and harmony in his life, but not without a tremendous amount of self reflection and soul searching.

His relationship with a career in music has evolved and all of this has led to some of his best work to date.

His new album, Dear John, is a testament to his love of family, gratitude, purpose, and a renewed commitment to his music.

I'm Jeff Moffatt and welcome to the podcast as Royal Wood joins us on Treasure Island Discs.

Royal, welcome to the show.

Thank you very much for having me.

So where do I find you today?

In Saskatoon, Saskatchewan.

I'm in my study.

I would be in my studio, but there's no windows, so it always feels a little dark.

I always like to start these conversations off talking about how music came into an artist's life.

In your case, having listened to Dear John over the last few days, actually quite a bit.

And then looking at the COVID art for Dear John, I assume that music came into your life super early because the kid on the COVID is about 2 years old, sitting at a piano.

Is that you?

Yeah, it's me.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I was lucky.

I grew up in a household where my parents just love music, so music was always on in some form and there were instruments, so I naturally gravitated, you know, just something that interested me.

And piano was my first love.

How old were you when you started playing piano?

Properly playing four.

And then my parents put me into lessons when I was 8 or 9, so I could learn theory.

And then I just started learning instruments along the go.

I had a really great music teacher in high school who let me bring home, like, any instrument I wanted.

So my Rolodex became quite lengthy.

I had a rock band in grade seven, and then I had bands all throughout high school.

And I was in the jazz band and just, you know, playing coffee houses and, you name it, just was always playing.

Yeah.

So did you go through the whole jazz program in school?

Jazz band?

I played trumpet, clarinet, tuba.

In the large ensemble.

I didn't play piano.

I was studying piano.

And I love jazz, and I was playing it myself.

But they needed someone who was good on brass.

And for some reason I had a.

An amisher for the trumpet.

Kind of leaned into that.

Was there a point in time where you sort of realized, you know what?

I love this.

I'm passionate about it.

I'd like to make this my career.

No, it always was.

I. I don't have a memory of ever thinking I wanted to be a firefighter or a police officer or an astronaut.

In fact, my mom had this book.

So the first day of school, you got your photo done, and it was for all the kids.

There's five kids in our family, so there's a lot of these books.

But the first day of school, you take your photo and then you.

You'd check off these boxes, like, you know, how old you are and your favorite color and what do you want to be when you grow up?

And mine always said musician, like across the board every year.

And so it was definitely was a real.

A real passion.

Did you have a cover band through high school?

Yeah, I mean, it's a rite of passage.

You have to have a cover band.

It's where you learn arrangement and playing with others and communication and live sound and playing to no one.

And, you know, playing when you think it's important, like year end assembly, like, you know, all the pressures of performance that comes from having that.

That sense of showmanship.

Like, you know, you're trying to impress your friends and peers and that kind of never goes away.

When did you start writing?

Started writing in early high school, but never let anyone hear anything.

I did not divulge that part of me until I went to Montreal.

I went there.

I went to McGill University, and I started playing solo jazz piano in this place called the Upstairs, which I did for drinks and to meet French girls.

And I started writing, really writing my own songs and performing them in, like, small little coffee houses and stuff.

But they were Just rudimentary.

They were listening back.

Like, I had this little EP that I made back then called Sketches, and they're just.

They're just terrible.

They're just terrible songs.

But, you know, it was.

You're finding your voice as a.

As an artist, so you wear a mask of whoever you're listening to or you're trying to be something.

And then I remember coming home on a Christmas break and I sat down on my childhood piano and this song came.

It was called off my sleeve.

It was just me on a piano, this, like, sad balladeer kind of thing.

And I wasn't thinking about was it cool or did it sound like someone.

I was trying to sound like.

This song just kind of came.

And that was a very big aha moment for me.

That was when I was like, I'm just going to start sitting down at the piano or sitting with my guitar and just writing and seeing what comes.

And slowly this collection of songs came to be, which I called the Milkweed ep.

And that launched my career.

Like, I. I put that out and immediately got attention and got a team.

And then I chipped away this record called Tall Tales.

And then that led to, like.

Well, my.

Fully led to my career.

I quit my job, I made a good enough day, started touring like crazy and never stopped.

Have you felt that over time, from, you know, from the earliest stages of you writing, have you found that your writing has gotten easier?

Or how has it evolved for you when you sit down now to write?

Well, it's funny, I think I've actually found my way home.

There's a period in my career, though, I'm proud of it because it got me to this point.

You know, when you get far enough along, you have a massive team and everyone has input and thoughts, and you're trying to reach certain benchmarks and accolades, and I've either pulled some punches or steered songs in a direction that I otherwise wouldn't have.

Trying to get a radio, whatever hits, or trying to get something.

And I regret those moments, even though one of them led to my Juno nomination for Best Album of the Year.

It's the one I hate the most.

And I.

But I was fully playing the game from start to finish.

I A and R'd it like the whole thing was like a very involved team.

I just cringe.

I cringe at that record.

And on Dear John, I think, because I thought I was going to quit music because it just wasn't feeling fun anymore.

And I didn't think anyone was ever going to hear these songs.

I Was very free to just be like that kid that came home during Christmas break, and I just started writing songs.

Like, something would come through fast and furious, and I was like, oh, I like, felt that, and I like that.

And I'm setting it aside, and then another one would come.

And then I just found myself laying awake at night so excited to demo it and try something and record this and record that.

And because it was just me and there was no team, I just jumped from instrument to instrument, you know, did my vocals the way I used to, and then I fell in love with it.

Like, it was such a cathartic, fun process.

Almost feels it became that way for you because you just freed yourself from all the other distractions and other responsibilities.

A million percent.

Yeah.

But I think there's something really interesting you just said there previously, because this whole thing about, you know, having as a career musician, you've.

You've made a good living out of doing this.

But there comes a point where life changes to where you have a family, you have other priorities in your life.

How did that manifest itself for you to start feeling the way that you did about, you know what?

Maybe it's time for me to move on to something different.

But then also how it liberated you to actually come up with some of.

I'm going to say to you, some of your best work.

Oh, well, thank you.

I.

In hindsight, I don't remember the exact moment the joy started being stripped away from it, but I do think it certainly centered around the time we had our first child's.

My father had just passed away.

Pandemic hit back to back.

I suddenly was home and not touring.

Actually experienced what it's like to be home and not touring.

Like, my toothbrush in a drawer, not in a bag.

You know, like home.

Whereas, like, oh, yeah, that book that I'm reading is on my nightstand.

And like, oh, this is nice.

You know, I've been on the road for 20 years and loved it.

But I guess there's another part of me that was ready to stop for a second.

And it's that old Alan Watts quote, his philosopher that I love, but he said, you can't get wet from the word water, meaning I've.

I had witnessed my brothers have kids.

I had witnessed the changes in them and.

And from a distance, I was like, yeah, I understand it, but I don't understand it.

And then you have your own.

Especially when we had our second George, and we had, like, a family.

Like, I was like, oh, man.

Like, I don't want to Miss a second of these two.

Like I want to watch them grow up, I want to teach them to ride their bike, I want to pick them up when they fall.

I want to, just want to be their dad, you know, and I want to be a husband who's committed in home and in it for the right reasons and all those things.

So there's not a huge amount of time left when you do that.

So it all becomes about your priorities.

And my priorities was to keep the lights on and the bills paid, but it, it wasn't about chasing some four year old dream of whatever stardom or you know, what you grew up thinking like, oh, if only I had a hit on the radio or I had a gold record or I headline master was at the Grammys or whatever it is.

You have these little things that you're like, oh, I want to feel special and do these things that seem so exciting, but when you're in it long enough and you're behind the curtain, it's actually not that exciting.

And you meet your heroes and you work with them and you tour with them and you're like, you're just a person.

We're all just the same person doing the same thing.

Some get paid better than others, but it all comes from the same place.

And so it ceases to be as grand as you, you might have put it before.

And now I, I love music, I love my career, I love making it and stuff, but nothing compares to like just a day with my, my boys.

Like just nothing just doesn't.

So.

Yeah, it's interesting how, because I feel the same about my kids.

It's interesting how 20 year old you is such a different, not a different person in every respect, but a different person.

Like you say your priorities have changed and if you're looking back now, what would you say to 20 year old you looking back on your career?

Well, I would say, most importantly.

I.

Would say the very words of my first publicist told me when I was walking the red carpet on my first Juno nomination, she stopped me and she said, make sure you enjoy this.

And I was like, I don't know what, I don't even know what you're talking about.

Yeah, of course I'm going to enjoy it.

But she meant be present, take it all, like take all of this in.

You have this feeling when you're young, like these little, these little moments that you're a part of that they last forever and they, they, they, they, they just don't.

So now like, especially because I, I try to be Home as much as possible.

And I try to lean into being a family man first and foremost.

When I go on tour now and when I'm doing a show or when I'm in my studio or when a song presents itself or whatever that moment is.

Oh, I'm just trying to squeeze every last drop out of it because I have no idea when the next one will be or if it will be.

So it's definitely made me far more grateful and in the moment with all things that's.

I think that's the biggest change from being a father because my kids are changing so fast.

It.

It saddens me and.

And fills me with joy at the same time.

You know, like our youngest George, when he finally lost that little sort of like, baby voice and just fully has conversations.

I'm so proud of this bright little boy that he is.

But then the part of me is like, oh, my baby's gone.

Like, he's.

He's just George now, you know, is those kind of.

Those kind of things really hit you hard?

And it's the same thing with being on a stage.

Like, when my band.

The full band and crew, and we're truly, like, on tour at the end, after every show, all the audience is gone and everyone's packing up.

I just sit on the stage and I watch it all just kind of happen and I just take it in.

It's like the ghosts of the room that were just there and the camaraderie on stage and the moments you made and you're like, I don't know if I get to do that again tomorrow.

No, that part's changed before.

I just felt like this is.

It's going to go on forever, and it's just a to do list.

Gratitude.

Yeah, yeah.

Gratitude.

First and foremost.

It's the one.

If there's one thing I instill inside my kids more than anything, I just want them to be grateful for every single moment that's happening.

Fortune.

Fortunate.

And.

And once.

It seems like it's the worst moment because I can definitely look back and see the fortune and the misfortune.

Yeah, Yeah.

I feel a lot of how you're feeling now.

Went into the writing of the new album.

Yeah, most definitely.

Yeah.

And.

And it wasn't.

It wasn't a conscious thing.

I think that's just where I'm at emotionally, within my soul.

But definitely after each song would come, I spent more time on these lyrics than any record I've ever made.

And that's also something I've learned looking back musically.

I'M actually incredibly proud of a lot of the things I've made.

It's the lyrics.

Looking back, I was like, oh, just because you said it the first time you wrote it doesn't mean it was the best thing you could have said.

You know, they're, I, I believe in allowing things to come through you, but I do think it's a marriage of the two.

I think that's why I like Leonard Cohen's lyrics so much, is because it wasn't just a, a quick firing off of thoughts.

It was real imagery and he just weighed every single word.

And I, I really appreciate that now in my career trying to do that.

I'm not Leonard Cohen, but I, I, I really put a lot of effort into my lyrics now more than ever.

There's some really interesting material on that, on that new album, for sure.

Having listened to it, like I was saying, I listened to it quite a bit over the last couple of days, and I would say to you, I don't know what most people say, but my favorite song on the album is To Be in Love.

Oh, fantastic.

Yeah.

I'll tell you why.

It's a relatively simple song, as you would agree, I would think.

I think there's a couple of key changes in there, right?

Yeah, there's, there's three, three, three modulations.

Yeah.

And it is just such a, from the heart song.

And you can tell.

Yeah, yeah.

And I, I, I've held on to that song for almost 10 years.

Yeah.

And I, I wrote that song that it is.

It's odd that you picked that one out.

It is the only song in this record that I did not alter or change a single word.

And I was in my apartment in Toronto.

My wife and I just gotten married.

I was just trying to write the next record.

And that song, she was just like in the other room doing something.

And I was, was just in my little studio room and I just started to strum and I sang the first verse and it led to the next verse and I was like, this feels really nice.

So I grabbed my phone, I hit record, and I did that part again.

And then I just kept singing and each part and each modulation and each change all just kind of tumbled out and, and then I put it away and I thought, well, that was kind of a fun, like, it was an amazing ride.

But that was a fun little writing exercise.

It's really on the nose and really simple and what I was making at the time, it just didn't fit at all.

But I always knew it was in my Back Pocket.

And I always knew I'd come back to it.

And when I was making this, I was about halfway through making the record, realizing that I'm actually making a record here, and I was like, I think this is the perfect album.

Closer.

I think this sums it all up.

Yeah.

That song still seems magical to me.

Even in recording it, it all just kind of laid itself out at its feet.

And I'm really glad that I remembered it.

I'm really glad I recorded it that day.

And it's my wife's favorite too, by far.

It is, right?

Yeah.

Interesting.

It's your favorite by far.

It's the Royal.

It's a perfect song to end that record with.

It's perfect.

Thanks.

Thanks.

Thanks.

Love it.

Okay, I gotta ask you.

Tell me about.

Tell me about your look.

I know that you were from Lakefield.

Is that right?

And when I was prepping for this, I'd seen that you guys had renovated your family home and you survived your marriage, survived this whole thing.

Two children, us moving across the country, a sick child.

It's kind of unbelievable, actually.

Yeah, we.

We've been through a lot, and it's definitely the.

The scars have made us very strong.

It's.

It's partnership.

That's.

That's.

That's the way to put it, which are not easy.

Um, but there's.

There's grace and a strength to.

To going through those things together.

It makes the small things pretty trivial.

Agreed.

Yeah.

How did you guys end up in Saskatoon?

Well, my wife's in Saskatoon.

And obviously having the two children changes things.

And my family is scattered kind of all over the world.

All my siblings, and they all have kids, but they're everywhere.

One's in California, one's in the uk, one's in Toronto, one's in Northern Ontario, so we didn't have, like, a community.

And because she wasn't from here, and I spent my life on the road, I don't have a lot of, like.

Like meaningful friendships in Toronto.

Like, not of that ilk.

Most of my.

Most of my, like, dearest friends live in Los Angeles and New York and parts of Europe.

And it's because I spent my life on the road.

You know, I wasn't doing barbecues on the weekend and making communities.

It just wasn't.

My community would be like, oh, here's my good friend at a festival.

I'm going to hang out with you for this one night, and we won't see each other again for six to nine more months.

That's life as an artist.

So when we started having kids and realized, man, we really need like a.

We need a network here, especially when I'm.

When I'm away and I'm on the road, it was painfully obvious.

I had this massive tour with Bonnie, Bonnie Raitt.

And it was like three and a half weeks.

And I, like, this is just too much.

Like, she was just there alone in our farmhouse and I was like, this isn't going to work.

And she, though, to her credit, was really pushing for us to go back to Toronto because that's where we started, because she thought that was better for my career.

But I thought being here was better for our family.

And so I pushed Saskatoon.

And I'm really glad I did because she's incredibly happy.

All of her friends from her childhood are here.

They all have kids around the same age.

Her family's here, all her siblings have kids.

We see her friends and family every weekend, if not every other.

And it's just been really.

It's been really good.

It's great for the boys, too.

They're playing with their cousins and, you know, because they were pandemic kids too, living in rural Ontario, they didn't have kids to play with other than like a little, like, day school that they went for a couple hours a day in our last, like six months living there.

But it's been really good.

And I love my studio here and I love our streets and our neighbors are all great.

And, you know, I was a country kid growing up.

I grew up without neighbors.

My nearest neighbor is like 15 minute walk away.

So I was dead set against suburban life because in Toronto, I like the density.

I like the craziness of the living in an apartment and like the grit, you know, that's why I love New York City so much.

So I was like, if we're going to go to Saskatoon, no, I just have one prerequisite.

And I want to be on an old Saskatoon street full of character, lots of old homes and trees and, like, you know, the beauty of what Saskatoon is by the river and stuff.

And she agreed.

So that's where we are, which has been great.

Beautiful.

So listen, in the interest of time, let's talk about this.

This music that you grew up with and the three or four albums, let's say, that were the most meaningful for you and were the most influential for.

You in your career.

Whew, that's.

That's a hard one.

I mean, that's changed from.

From each major paradigm shift.

As a human, you suddenly have these new pivotal records.

But looking back off the top of my head, I would say it was the Beatles, sergeant Peppers.

It was Cat Steven's Teeth of the Tiller man.

And it was actually the.

That first Dylan collection, you know, that blue cover.

Those three records in particular were the most like, monumental in, in my wanting to be a songwriter.

There's lots of things that maybe you want to pick up the guitar, like Jimi Hendrix Experience, Access, Bull Is Love or the first Zeppelin record, actually one end to maybe want to play electric guitar and all that stuff.

And there's lots of Oscar Peterson records and things that made me want to play a jazz.

Like you have these different pockets of things.

You know, Frank Sinatra made me want to use my voice in ways that a lot of.

Of the 70 songwriters I was listening to didn't.

You know, he.

He added a timbre to me because I spent so much time listening to big band with my dad.

That.

That's in there too.

So, yeah, those are, those are tough.

If I thought about it for five more minutes, I'd think of, you know, oh, no, it was these three records.

No, it was these three records.

Remember moving to Montreal and suddenly I discovered Jeff Buckley and I got into Leonard Cohen and I got into Joni Mitchell and, you know, my, My eyes opened to a, to a, Another depth of, of.

Of visionary artistic music that wasn't pop music.

It was like touching something else, you know, and Leonard Cohen and Joni Mitchell and even Jeff Buckley, they just went places that were darker.

Darker than a Cat Stevens record or even a Dylan record.

They just went to another place.

So I think I was just more complex by then.

So I got into more complex things.

Yeah.

And I think like you say, there's periods in your life where certain music is really central to who you are as a person in, in the world that you're living in.

But as time goes on, decades go on, that changes.

So today, if you were to sit down and put an album on, what would you put on it?

The move I'm in today we know who I'm actually the most in love with on earth right now is Sam Fender.

Sam Fender is the starter center of the uk and I think his last record, People watching it is just brilliant, like from start to finish.

I just think it is.

I think it is exactly what I wish music was.

Was doing in the saying.

And it's such a.

It's the 1% of music being made now.

I don't understand most of the stuff that that is out there.

It just doesn't resonate with me.

Um, not like at a popular level, there's lots of, lots of things under, in the underbelly that are incredibly talented and I wish the world was lauding, but in terms of things that are wildly successful, you know, like Sam Fender would sell out every arena across the uk and I think he actually just won the, the, the Brit prize, like the be, like the Polaris prize.

But what they have in the UK for best record and stuff, and I think it was well deserved.

I think it's really powerful lyrics that speak to a genuine zeitgeist of what it is to be a Brit growing up in the UK right now.

And just.

Yeah, and just from a production standpoint, it's such a classic feeling to this record and yet they still made it sound contemporary and fresh and new.

And as one of the guys from the War on Drugs and his name is escaping me, but, but he, he produced, he produced that record.

It's just so good.

It's just so good.

I love it.

So that's the one I'm listening to the most.

There's lots of other really great songwriters out right now that I'm appreciating and I'm, I'm always trying to dive into what's like crazy popular just to make sure I kind of understand it.

You know, I think Chapel Roan's great, I think Olivia Rodriguez, like Rodrigo Rodrigo.

But that, that last record, the Vampire Song in particular, it's just crushing how good that is.

So there's lots of good stuff coming out.

But, but I always find myself returning to the, the albums of my youth.

When I'm puttering around the house and I'm like painting the walls or fixing something or whatever, I'm like, oh, I'm gonna throw on Dylan.

Blonde on Blonde.

You know what's super interesting about you is just kind of going back to the beginning of this conversation where the way music came into your life and you know, the chronology of it, of you being a guy, that was a rock guy, you were a folk guy, but you're also a jazz guy.

And I feel that there's such a silver thread that runs through your work that takes all of this stuff and mashes it up and makes you truly a unique artist that way.

Thanks for saying that.

It's so true though.

And you know, and, and I, I don't care what record of yours that people are gonna go listen to after you and I talking, but you hear it in every single one of your records.

There's.

You're not a One Dimensional Artist by.

Thank You.

Thank you for saying that.

Yeah.

I think if that is true, which I hope it is, it's probably been a blessing and a curse.

But I definitely, I definitely unabashedly love what I love and that's that.

I think that's the freedom that you finally feel.

You know, it's like, does the world want a saxophone solo on the outro of the song?

Probably not, but I do.

You know those little moments where you're like, this isn't what people are doing right now, but man, I sure want this.

I want a 12 string doubling, a 60s casino on the outro of to be in love.

That's what I want.

Yeah.

But Royal, you know, if George Martin had said that when they were recording sergeant Peppers, you never would have.

Sergeant Peppers.

Yes, yes, all true, all very true, Very true.

So I think one of the things that you've earned throughout, you know, all your years of work is the right to do what you choose to do and create the art that you are creating.

And I think that's very liberating for you.

It definitely is.

Yeah.

And I appreciate you saying that because it's.

It's not worth the sacrifice unless I'm loving what I'm doing, that's for sure.

Listen, thank you so much.

It's been awesome talking to you.

No, I enjoyed the chat as well, Jeff, very much.

And I encourage anybody who's listening today to go out, listen to Dear John, a new album, catch you live when you're on the road.

I know you've got some dates lined up for sure in the coming months.

Hopefully people will keep their eye open and, and if they don't know you already, they'll discover what a true treasure you are as a Canadian artist.

I appreciate that very much.

Thank you.

Thanks for joining us today and I hope you enjoyed the conversation with Royal Wood.

We've got links in the show notes to Royal's website, as well as a playlist to some of his music.

Be sure to check his new album, Dear John, and share this episode with anyone who loves great music and great artists.

We'll see you next time on Treasure Island Discs.