The Courage To Follow Your Purpose

Bren: Hello and welcome back to This Is Not a Data Podcast. As ever, I'm joined by my good friend Leno, and for the first time, which is very exciting, we have a guest with us. Alberto Gonzalo Otero, founder of Yes on Purpose, spends his days helping leaders and teams reconnect with why they actually do what they do. Alberto's workshops are legendary. The way he opens them, the questions he asks, can be quite hard hitting and at times uncomfortable. Today we're asking the question that most of us are avoiding. Do you actually know why you do what you do? Or did you just end up here? Let's get into it. Hello and welcome back to another episode of this is not a data podcast and I'm not flying solo this time because I've got my good friend Leno with me. Good morning Leno.

Lenno: Morning Bren morning. And this indeed is not a data podcast. This is all about people.

Bren: This is it. Yeah, I mean, you are getting so good at this because this is a lovely segue into the fact that we've actually got more people with us today than normal, which is terribly exciting for us. We have a guest with us first for the podcast. We have a gentleman called Alberto with us who will help us understand a little bit more about purpose and people, but I'm going to do you a disservice. So Alberto, lovely to see you. If you'd like to. I've just give it a little bit of a snapshot as to who you are and where you come from.

Alberto: sure, yeah. Well hi to both of you and to your audience. my name is Alberto Gonzalez Totero, it's a long name. I'm from Spain, as you probably hear in my accent as well. Tried to tie it for many years, but that's a really work.

Bren: You

Alberto: so yeah, I'm living in the Netherlands and that's why also I know Leno. We we met some years ago. and I've been living here for more than eighteen years. I'm married to a to Dutch woman. we have two boys, sixteen and twelve. and and I'm the founder of of a very small company called Yast on Purpose. And

Bren: Hmm.

Alberto: and what I do is basically I help, you know, people, leaders and teams to know more about their own purpose and and connect it with what they do every day at work.

Bren: And I mean, thank you for spending the time with us. I mean, we're recording on a Wednesday for it to go out on Friday. And I mean, the conversations that Leno and I have had over the last few weeks, I think you could probably say that there's been a bit of a thread of purpose through all of them in terms of, yes, we come at it from data professional sides and so forth. But actually knowing why we do what we do and what's important to us, I think Personally, I think it's going to become more important. And so how does your work generally kind of evolve? Is it working with leadership or with teams or how does that work?

Alberto: Yeah, mostly both. so sometimes it's leadership teams, so it's a combination of both things. many times I work with with leaders, and and you know what I yeah, I do often is also speaking at conferences and or internal, you know, events at companies about this this topic of of purpose leadership or or teamwork. so that's that's the people I I work with the most. Yeah.

Lenno: Couple couple of years ago because so Alberto you referenced to to that I was working at Fritz Campina and we had this initiative called One Finance, which was a community across the globe, all of the finance colleagues. and we indeed hosted a a complete segment of that global conference on purpose. And Alberto joined me physically in the studio in Amersford. speaking on purpose how you position that within the company, what we can do about it and how effectively we can recognize why we are doing and and and and driving the the interest on a day to day basis.

Bren: Because I think I'm slightly envious Alberta that you were in the same room as as I know because we haven't managed to do that too often but I think sometimes purpose can be misunderstood gets bandied around a little bit and I just wonder whether in the world of AI and and the of technological advancements whether there's going to be a bit of a resurgence or a bit of an emphasis on purpose as maybe the younger generations really want to be able to know why they're doing something. Is that fair? you think there's a sort of an increased kind of focus on it or is it just becoming more prevalent for us that we're aware of it, do think?

Alberto: Yeah, well that's a that's a good question. I th I think it's it is very important, it has always been important and then it changes how many people feel that it's important over the years. It depends how what happens also around the world. like if go you go back to COVID nineteen, everyone almost everyone was thinking about purpose. The the thing with purpose is a big word, and and that's I try I I'm very, you know, pragmatical. I I'm I try to make things as simple as possible. And and I I always say, you know, yeah, purpose is basically it doesn't need to be something so big or or religious or or that you need to spiritual or you need to believe in or whatever, but it's just understanding, you know, the reason why you do the things you do, you know. We say it in English and also other languages as well. We we do this on purpose.

Bren: Hmm.

Alberto: and and the problem we have is that we do many things every day, but we don't really know why we do them or we we forget. but in COVID everyone was thinking about, you know, what I should do with my life and and you know, what is my next step, or you know, and and we were worried and and sometimes we we need that, to face a big challenge to actually think about it. and then you see all kind of and it depends on on people and industries and all this, but you see that this thing, you know, goes back and forth, and and when people face challenges, it's probably the moment where when they they think more about this thing called purpose. And and

Bren: Yeah.

Alberto: you know, to your point as well, you know, it used to be a more like an older people issue or or thing. that midlife crisis thing when you get there and then you ask yourself, you know, Hey, I've been doing this for so many years but I don't really like it that much or what shall I do next? What shall shall I do with my life? but then

Bren: You've literally just described what I'm going through at the moment.

Alberto: I didn't

Lenno: The

Alberto: want to say anything, but I I kind of guess we are

Lenno: brand brand this this

Alberto: almost in the midlife crisis now.

Bren: Yeah.

Lenno: This is not a midlife crisis podcast. Maybe we can use that as a spin off, but Yeah. Exactly.

Alberto: It's a new title, no. No, but you see less like now younger generations asking the the same questions, you know. with twenty, twenty something years old. I I work with a lot of young people and and they really worry about these things. so it's it's interesting to see how this is more like, you know, doesn't matter how old you are, it's becoming more crucial.

Lenno: And Alberto, it's it's interesting that you've just referenced a couple of times on the COVID pandemic when that that that was a monumental shift. Everybody was affected by that. So if we bring that into the the speed of the the technology change that is happening right now. So artificial intelligence has been introduced to us, everybody is talking about it, everybody's chasing up on it. Whether or not it's relevant or giving giving the added value. it's it's it's out there. Are you experiencing in your line of conversations something similar in terms of a monumental shift that is generating some level of uncertainty and therefore people questioning the purpose side of it?

Alberto: Yeah, well it's definitely a big big thing and and everyone is talking about it, everyone is trying to push it at company level. no matter how or or what or for what, but I we need to use AI. so it is a concern for for you know, obviously people jobs because that's what we get from from the media as well, that you know we're gonna have no jobs anymore. But I think it this is all gonna a shift and and it is again it is a big big kind of b breakthrough right it's it's a big moment and similar to what happened with you know internet obviously the and and then we see or we saw that you know obviously some jobs doesn't they don't exist anymore right but it's not that everyone who had those jobs suddenly died or anything that they kind of found a way to do something else and

Bren: Hmm.

Alberto: I think you know again and not trying to minimize this the impact of AI is massive. but I think you know it is right now, as I say more my perception with my clients, for example, it is more uncertain and it is more a concern rather than an actual you know challenge or issue.

Bren: Okay.

Alberto: companies you know I'm thinking about one of the big four consulting firms, which I've been working with them for many years, they are hiring less people. And one of the reasons they think is AI, and that they will need less people. But if you ask, okay, but how are you using AI for this or for that or to the what level or something, it is still pretty basic. We all use AI for some things, but and of course, you know, you get into the high tech industry they use it probably much more but in in the rest of the industries everyone wants to use it everyone every leader wants people to use it but you know what do they use it for and how actually this is impacting the need of people and and you know that's still very very uncertain in my opinion.

Lenno: Mm-hmm.

Bren: Yeah, it's funny you said that because I mean, actually yesterday, there's four of us that used to work together to live in the UAE now and Simon and I still live here, but we were talking about AI and I can't take credit for the metaphor analogy and never sure which way around it is. But if you're not really sure how to use AI, but you buy skills or you bring people in or you bring in AI in a vertical. It's almost equivalent of buying a sports car, adding two extra wheels to the back of it and expecting it to go quicker. If you're not sure what you're trying to do, and I think as you said in your intro, doing things on purpose or we almost do things automatically, I think in business there's a tendency to, whether it's FOMO, maybe, maybe not, but actually it's like, we need to keep up with... So and so we need to do something. So let's let's rather do something than think about why we're doing it We'll worry about the why later And and I think if you overlay kind of the people aspect is you've to get people to come with you on a journey You've got to get and I think from a leadership perspective certainly, you know people buy into people people buy why you're doing they want to join you on on that journey, I think if you do it with purpose and I'm very conscious that I'm talking to to somebody who I mean, you're far more of an expert than I am,

Lenno: Mr. Perfect. Yeah.

Bren: but it's, do we, how do we make sure that we don't forget that? Because business is a relationship based business, isn't it? You need, you need people to, to, bring it to life, no matter how efficient it can be. And I think the part that I'll sort of, I'll keep, I'll stop talking in a moment in the, the, you know, AI can help with many things, but we're just flirting around the edges. always say, we're trying lots of different things, but has it made a tangible impact on many? I'm not sure yet. So then it comes back to the people side and saying, okay, how do we get the best out of our people and create environments to allow people to do what they do best? That should be the focus. that fair comment?

Alberto: it is is it a question to me or to Leno? Or to both?

Lenno: Sure.

Bren: Yeah, to both it. because, Lenny, I mean, you, you may see it from a, I guess, from a data perspective in your business, as opposed to sort of Alberto's sort of wider client base.

Lenno: Then then so let me respond to that just just briefly, maybe opening up a number of additional questions. While you were doing this layup, Bren, I was I was thinking like in a corporate context, it may not necessarily be the the company that is pushing AI, as well as the the technology with AI seems to be so low tech that it is very quote unquote, easy to adopt and and and step into it. All of a sudden everybody can code. All of a sudden everybody can generate a report. All of a sudden everybody can establish an integration or create a website to resolve, again, between quotes, on a problem that I as a person am experiencing on a daily basis. And it may have been a frustration in my day to day work. This is that that vibe coding. It's being generated for you. It's so easy. It looks great. But then the moment that you look under the hood, there may be gibberish in it. There may be code structures that is that is incorrect or non sustainable in itself as well. Nevertheless, the package looks amazing.

Bren: Hmm.

Lenno: And therefore it's it it may have or or it may come across as this this this gizmo, this magic tool toolbox that is solving noise in a company because people are are finding themselves with a solution to a point-to-point problem. Now while speaking, it may very well be that across companies, because of that, we're we're trying to somehow channel and harness the explosion of all kinds of again between air quotes solutions that have been brought into the landscape. And of course, our security officers, our data officers, our IT officers go berserk. because all of that is expected to be enabled and sustained and etc. etc. How are we going to do that? And how are we going to scale that on a company basis? I think from a personal perspective, it does serve a purpose because by problem My personal problem seems to be have been resolved. Look at the nice little gizmo that I've just created in my spare time. I've done this in a weekend. You know, can you imagine what I can do with this technology if I can spend a month on it?

Alberto: Yeah, no, so

Lenno: Albert, what what what's your read?

Alberto: yeah, you know, it is two things. My background is in the software industry, so we I I work for for software solutions you know for

Bren: Interesting.

Alberto: for eleven years, something like that. in different industries, but you know from from that point of view, you know, every solution right now, every software needs to have AI. And no matter if it's true or not. And and I I you know this started when I was still worse working in that company and that industry and and we said we use AI and we had some kind of crowded that use a very tiny bit of potentially you know AI. but you know that was the marketing stuff, right? And and and right now obviously everyone is kind of using a bit of AI, but how you use it, it is actually you know working well or not. Doesn't matter that much. If you go to a to you know, a position or a conference where you are showing your software your solution to to people, to clients, potential clients, you know, you need to have AI somewhere there. Otherwise you are left behind. So that's the pressure that companies feel to to do something with AI. Whether it has you know a higher value or not, it you know, it can and there are many nice solutions. But sometimes what Lena says, you know, there are mistakes and what AI provides. And then you you lose also at one point you you lose a lot of creativity thanks to

Bren: Hmm.

Alberto: AI, because AI normally yeah it is great for many things, but looks like what exists already, but it doesn't kind of create new things so far or or for for most of of it. and then there is one point that I I I was thinking when you invited to my to to to the podcast, invited me to the podcast. I'm seeing some posts on this social Instagram or something. from the Olympic Games of Robotics or or robots, something like that. It's

Lenno: In China. Yeah.

Alberto: something it's happening right now.

Bren: Okay.

Alberto: and and it's funny to see because there are races, you know, and then they you know some of them go well, some of them you see the robots crashing and and you know doing really weird things. mo when I see these things, most of the times I think Do they do this better than a human? Or would that you know you see robots playing football? Would anyone pay a ticket to see some robots playing against each other? I don't think so. but the funny thing to see is that there was a this race, so they had they they had to run against

Bren: Yeah.

Alberto: each other. And then per robot there was like three people, humans, actually around, one controlling the robot because still with a remote control.

Bren: Thanks

Alberto: and then other two yes there just in case the robot would fall down, you know? And that's I think to me a very good picture of how absurd this is that you know we are creating these things. If you can use it for to save lives, to go into places where it you know it's dangerous for humans. Yeah, we we tend to use technology for very stupid things and waste a lot of money and time on on on these kind of things instead of you know, using it using it well. And then again the impact of okay, you have a robot to do something but you have three people around. If you have one person, an athlete, that's it, you know, and and and he goes and or she and and that's it, right? So that makes you think about the value of all this.

Lenno: it the the the value and to to your field of expertise as well also to why do we purposeful trigger these type of these type of developments so indeed I I I recognize and sympathize also with the points that you're bringing across. Are we positioning the robots for running new Robotized Olympics, or are we indeed investing time and energy in the support to enrich enrich or or extend and save and and and whatever human life? get a robot out

Alberto: Yeah. W which you solve is to to benefit we as humans from it and not to actually kind of impact us in a negative way. so in that sense we are a bit like it's a it's a paradox, sense.

Bren: It's funny because as you say and the robot Olympics, mean that's a weird thought. not sure. I mean, maybe Netflix will stream it or something, but I'm not quite sure how that would work. But you, as you were saying Alberto, that how many times, and I've probably done it this week, which is a bit embarrassing, is you use AI to create a solution. You're like, yes, yeah, this is going to resolve my... You know, thinking of the conversation we've had previously, and I know about connecting calendars, you'd be like, yeah, we can connect the calendar and it can produce a dashboard and we can have something together. And I'm like, yeah, this is going to save heaps of time. Then you run it for the first time. You're like, God, it doesn't work now. I need to add something else in. And you're like, okay, no worries. It's still, it's, still cool. Then you run it again. You're like, God, now I need to update that other thing, which is now because it's other things doing to then give the output. It was probably easy just to write a handwritten note. just a reminder than it was to actually try and create these solutions. And I think the part that I find quite interesting, and I've had a relatively animated ding-dong on LinkedIn about it, is there are people or companies that are not hiring and laying people off to replace it with AI in inverted commas, when actually the cost I think is only going to get more expensive, and then you're going to need people to come back and support and monitor the AI that's been implemented. And so this whole sort of circle of life element of, yes, we can do great things. Having a robot being able to run around a 400 meter track, that's pretty cool, but it's not going to help me in my day to day life. But if I go to the doctors and he or she can use AI to screen an X-ray or a document to help identify a potential tumor or something, then absolutely, I think that is brilliant. But it's finding that balance, isn't it, between what's actually going to help us and what's just cool but noise.

Alberto: Yeah.

Lenno: Isn't is isn't that part of the the context that that that may be different individual by individual? So the the the the reference that you're just making is that it's it's more purposeful to leverage technology for X-ray indications and and and analysis of it at large scale to to predict and forecast. It may very well be that another individual's context is much more a stable already and and and someone is much more looking into what is it more into the animated space and then and then the the robotized Olympics maybe the the the best

Alberto: Yeah.

Lenno: thing that that that person is is experiencing.

Bren: Yeah, I guess so and Alberto in the work that you do with with your clients kind of pulling on that for a moment if Do you always see? Kind of the why I use wine purpose slightly interchangeably and that's probably I don't know you tell me whether it's right or not But but do you see kind of the alignment of what work is doing with what? Why people in the purpose of it did do they overlap often or is there often a bit of a disconnect which needs? Resolving.

Alberto: Well, yeah, most of the people I work with, you know, they they don't have that well they do have that connection, they forgot about it. you know, the thing is when you join a company, you normally know why you join the company. and when you're looking for a job, you ask yourself these things, right? More often. the the thing is when you get into the daily routine and then you've been doing the same thing for some time, you you sometimes forget. it it happens also. Yeah, I do work with employee on boarding with one of my clients and and basically I I I do a workshop a session about purpose on their second day at the company. and and all the basically all the employees this is here in the Netherlands, all the employees you know, we do like two or more than days and then the second day is partly with with me. And and you know, they did join this company. for some reasons, but then what is the reason behind that? They don't really know. Most most people don't know. Some older people that think more deeply about purpose and all these things, then you see that they they connect more with this. But but many people, okay, yeah, it is a good employer, you know, it's a good company, it's well known, it's a good you know, good conditions, and and that's that that those are reasons to join a company, but then

Bren: it

Alberto: you need to find a deeper reason to to actually do what you are gonna do for the next maybe hopefully few years. and if

Bren: And sorry just to jump in very quick how how forthcoming or how open are people because if you if you've asked somebody on day two Why did you join other than paying the mortgage that that's quite a hard question to ask?

Alberto: Well yeah, you know, I I Leno probably I don't know if you remember this or not, I have one slide.

Bren: Did you ask Leno, is this what we're saying? Did you ask Leno why you joined?

Lenno: No, no, Alberto didn't ask me that question. But

Bren: you

Lenno: it's it's a scary one in it to to to receive at day two. Yeah.

Alberto: I have a I have one slide, it's a black slide, and and then it says you are gonna die. and that's what I showed to everyone on the second day working at this company. and and you know, some people take it you know yeah more in a funny way. Some people I had in the last one I had someone kind of crying. and then I had a chat with with her and and you know some One of her best friends passed away a few weeks before

Bren: Thank you very much.

Alberto: all that. And I said, yeah, sorry, you know, and I'm aware that I can't create this can happen. but she was very thankful for that slide actually, to to make her think about it and and and all this. So but you know, it is yeah, it is interesting. You know, in this case it's it's very specific in onboarding. they are happy because they enjoy, right? And then what I try to to do with them is okay, find that deeper reason. And some some, you know, some people just join because the money, right? And that's fine. And then and they tell me sometimes, you know, and and this is like a big sometimes it's from seventy to hundred and fifty people in the room. and

Bren: Wow.

Alberto: and then they say, you know, maybe they send money or something when I ask some questions to them all this. And then I ask well okay, why why do you need money for? Or What what do you need it for? And what do you want to do with that money? no, I want to have a nice life, I will go on trips, all that. Okay, but then why you do you want to do that? And used to you know, using the why question obviously, you ask several times, and every answer you get a bit more c a bit closer to the real purpose of having that money, you know. so it's it's interesting to see. Every you know, and every company is different. But we tend to forget why we do the things we do and And it's good to ask ourselves that, to to be happier and more fulfilled at at work.

Bren: And is it fair to say without kind of summarizing it too much, is it about being more intentional with what we do? Is that almost what we've forgotten or we forget when we take actions of joining businesses or doing the work that we do? it about being more intentional?

Alberto: Yeah, well that that's the second part I think and it's it is like that. The first part is obviously knowing more about yourself, because we don't we don't think enough about what what do we actually like to do, why we like to do that, what gives us you know this energy, what give us, you know, a sense of purpose or or you know, if we for some people it's very important to help others or to, you know, make a positive impact. For some people is something else. But it's that's kind of the first step, you know, knowing more about those things for yourself. So then after that you can be more intentional with what you do. And then, you know, I I you know, I I put myself as an example because i you know, everything I do is kind of coming from my own experience. And and the same thing, you know, the the question, what are you grateful for? That's one question I ask to the always to the people I work with. And then people think, you know, and some people think about this more often, but Many people don't think about it. And I asked them to write it down and then to share and most people say the same things, right? Health, family, you know, freedom, opportunities. not not many people say, my two cars or my house at the beach, you know, it's it's nice. but these all the things come first, right? And and then when you know that, then I tell them, you know, when you are are about to make a decision smaller or or bigger, you can think about what you are grateful for and say, okay, if I go with option A, how this is gonna impact what is most important to me, which is basically the same thing. And if I go with option B, the same question. And that will help you make better decisions or be more intentional about what you do.

Bren: Interesting. Do you have many people that come to your day two and then immediately quit because you've made them realise that actually there's more to life than sitting in a room? Does that ever happen?

Alberto: Not many, not many, you know, but I I did

Bren: Yeah.

Alberto: work with people who quit. and not just because of my session or whatever, you know. I I remember yeah, two or three teams, you know, and this is more like a a team at a company. one was a hotspot in in Ireland and and some others. But these people were already not really probably a good fit in the team and the company, they weren't happy Another one was at like IKEA, a leadership team in in Spain, this case in this case. they they hired me to build a better team. So we work in different sessions over the year and and and but they already told me, you know, we have one person, it's a challenge, you know, it's a bit of a challenge. We want to kind of integrate him better in the team. So that was the purpose of it. but then between session two and three, we we ran one a couple of days together every month. and between session two and three, you know, they called me, the the the the leader of that leadership team called me and said, you know, we have to fire him. There was no way, yeah. But my work kind of exposed that a bit. I in the set the first exercise that I did with that team, and I I remember very well, it is a very visual exercise to see where ever everyone in the team It's stunning, it's like kind of constellation work. And then you saw already that this guy was really far off from the rest of the team.

Lenno: Yeah.

Alberto: and that's that's interesting. So but yeah, you know, sometimes people quit, but actually that's for the better because they leave this is probably not the best place for them and and

Bren: Hmm.

Alberto: they leave a space for someone that could join and and then that could be a b a a better fit.

Lenno: These examples, Alberto, tri trick trigger a thought in my mind that actually Patrick Lancioni has probably built his whole book around the five dysfunctions of a team, which is reading like a novel based on your experiences that you are just expressing. So what what came first? Alberto as Mr. Purpose or Patrick Lancioni in this

Alberto: No, no. I think he's he's probably doing the you know, I'm seven years and a half more or less with my own business and then he's probably longer with that. No, he's

Lenno: Yeah, yeah.

Alberto: it's he's first but and I I I did use part of his work for because I have my own team assessment. but I dis did use his send inspiration for that. and then I I realised, you know, it doesn't it's nice. It's very nice, obviously successful, but there are many other components that are important for a team to be s high performing and successful that are not measuring that test that he has, like you know, purpose, clarity, on goals and and trust or trust he he has but psychological safety. things that I so I you know, I developed my own team assessment and I measure fifteen like five big components but dividing in three so five fifteen attributes So but i it's it obviously it's it's all about the same thing. again, people, and how they feel aligned and connect with each other and work with each other.

Lenno: Related to to to what you were saying saying earlier, where people tend to forget after some period why we are doing what we're doing. do we nowadays have too many options and is the what is it the the the base quote unquote standard of living too high? and therefore we are basically looking for much more luxurious quick endorfin enabled type of type of what is it sentiments.

Alberto: Yeah, you know, i i obviously it could be, yeah. We we in our generation we have it depends where you live, obviously, how you were raised and everything, but you have you know, more or less opportunities and and choices. sometimes I get asked this question or this comment in in in my work about, you know, yeah, but you know, people in Africa and kind of this you know, like poor countries and poor people, they don't have anything and they don't you know they can't We are l you know, we have we are in a luxury position to think about purpose and all these these things, but they these people can't. And and and actually what I say is, you know, these people are the ones who actually think about purpose more. it's not about

Lenno: Exactly.

Alberto: the word. Again, it's not about you know, you can put it how you want. I I don't the Mr. Purpose thing is not me my my thing. It's like people are starting to call me that and say, Okay, well I put it there on my lift. but

Lenno: Yeah.

Alberto: But you know, th these people in Africa maybe don't have much. and they need to do a lot of different things. But the reason is very, very clear, you know, why they do what they do to support the family, to to help them, you know, and and it's not yeah. So in the end it's you know, for we are in again, if you live in you know in the Netherlands and you're financially safe and you have different problems than if you are not in that position. but again the the the core thing, it doesn't matter that much, you know, in the end you can have everything. I work with leaders they have in theory everything. A very good job, very good career, money, everything you want to you can think of, but they are really unhappy and unfulfilled and they don't know what to do with their lives, you know. because

Bren: Hmm.

Alberto: again you know what happens many times you start in one path and that that leads you somewhere. but if that's not intentional, it's just because you're good in this or you you have the opportunity, you took it. at some point you will think about, okay, but you know, maybe this is not what gives me energy. I don't want to be the you know doing this the next

Lenno: Exactly.

Alberto: twenty years of my life, but I don't know what to do. You know, what else

Lenno: No, and I think that that that that very clearly comes across from everything that you're saying in the core. you're you're raising multiple times the the why question and what is behind it and what is behind that one. And peeling away all of these layers, all of at some point you're hitting the core that is universal, or at least that that seems to be universal, regardless of geography or or line of business that we're working in, or whether this is sports or business or whatever that may be. Think these and and and trying to bridge this back to technology, data, artificial intelligence, this is also what we I feel we should be doing in everything that we're exploring in a business context. Yeah. Why are we doing this? What is the problem that we're trying to solve? If there's no problem, let's not solve anything. You know? There's no solving to be done. It's a nice little thing that we can pilot, but it's not a solution to something that we need to sustain or bring life and so on. You know, it's it's it may have been a fun hobby project.

Bren: Yeah, I think, Lennar, you've kind of cracked that part, the intentionality behind it. There'd be very clear what we're trying to achieve. Is it a bit of an exploration or are we actually trying to solve a problem? And I would imagine, Alberto, in some of the five whys and some of the questions you ask, the problems that people come to you with are probably not the ones that they actually think they need to solve or weren't aware of to begin with. so... being more intentional and focusing on what one's purpose is. mean, it's not really a secret, but I left a big four job 15 months after joining 10 years ago with nothing to go to because I was deeply unhappy. just wrong place, wrong time, like great company, wrong place, wrong time. just didn't energize me and it wasn't

Alberto: Mm-hmm.

Bren: part of my purpose.

Alberto: Yeah.

Bren: It turns out it was a quarter

Alberto: Yeah.

Bren: mile crisis because I quit a very stable job, bought a sports car and started a business that failed. But you know what, I mean, you learn from these things. I've still got the sports car if nothing else, but it's, it's, and, just, just quickly is purpose and courage. Is there a link there? Because I think to, to, to follow one's purpose or to be purposeful or intentional can often require quite a lot of courage to make big decisions or to make changes. If I'm conflated to things or they used a tool.

Alberto: Yeah, so I think y you do need courage to f you know, to to follow your purpose. and and that's mostly not because of you, but because of the pressure around yourself. and in many cases it's maybe you want to do something but but you know it's not the safe way to go for for for the rest of the people, right? because And that as an example and and that happened to me. You know, I studied something I didn't care about because you know my father said, you know, you know, don't study the other thing that you really like because because that's you know how you're gonna get a you know, a a good job and money and and and things like that. And and that goes on, you know, and and when I when I run the sessions, one of the questions I ask, many times is if you knew you couldn't fail, what would you start doing today? Right. and the thing, you know, people, you know, I ask them to write down things so don't they they they stay somewhere and then and to share. And people, you know, start my own business also on the second day of their employment, start my own business.

Bren: it's an intense second day of my word.

Alberto: And and it's fine, you know, it's and I said to Lina it's better to know because people have dreams and if you don't know them, that it doesn't make them disappear, right? It's very if you know and I when I was in teams I also asked my people, Hey, what would you do if you couldn't fail? Right. And then that some people said, Yeah, start my own business. I wanted to know more, what kind of business? and then I said, Okay, while you are here with me in the team, I'm gonna help you to learn as much as you can, to grow as much as you can. So eventually one day you will come to me and say, Hey Alberto, thank you. I'm leaving, I'm gonna start my own business. And what you get is actually the most loyal and committed people because you care about them, right? but you feel that that that what people say, you know, most of the times when they say it in front of a hundred people, I I ask this person to stand up and I say, Hey, who believes that if he or she really wants and and sometimes I get I learned how learn how to play play piano or learn a new language or You know, these kind of things. Who thinks she or he can do it? And everyone raises their hand. Why? Because they don't really know them that much, you know, they are not the closest friend or the f the the wife or the husband. You know, if we share that with our, you know, closest people, they are worried about us and they they try to prevent us sometimes in you know, not in a mean way, but in a in a you know, the the reason is positive but They prevent us from from actually having that courage to follow our purpose because it's there's a bit more risk in theory. But the risk I think is higher staying somewhere doing something you don't like or you don't get energy from, rather than trying something that might work or not, but at least you feel passionate about.

Bren: I think we're all going to go away and sort of question our life choices. Although

Alberto: Yeah.

Bren: I won't speak on Leno's behalf, but having kind of started my own business sort of six, seven months ago, can wholeheartedly endorse it's properly scary. finding something that lifts you up and energizes you is quite rewarding. It's also equally terrifying, but I mean, that's another story. I mean, Alberto. Thank you. Where can people get in touch? What's the best way to get in touch if they want to find out more from the work that you do or to speak with you?

Alberto: yeah, you know, they can they can contact me on LinkedIn. you know, they're send me a message together with a connection request

Bren: Perfect.

Alberto: or at alberto at justinpurper dot com. That's that's also possible.

Bren: Fantastic. How about that? Now, this is the part that I will also get Leno to do one day, we, for everybody, the millions listening around the world, you know, this is sort of up there challenging the Joe Rogan podcast is we need some five star reviews. So for everybody listening, please do like and subscribe. Please do leave us a review. It help us share the message. And we are being purposeful about having the conversations that data executives and senior leadership are having behind closed doors that we think should be shared. Lenore, like Jerry Springer, any closing thoughts? mean, this is, wow. I mean, what a conversation.

Lenno: It's it it is. It is all about passion, pursuing these the these passions as well, being frank and upfront about it. get the conversation out in the open. So let's continue doing that, Bran. And Alberto, thank you, thank you very much for being willing to to join us here. I've again been inspired with everything that you're saying over the course of last forty forty odd odd minutes. Happy to to continue in this in this direction as well. Thank you.

Alberto: Now thank you. Thank you both for the opportunity and and it was great to have a chat with both of you and I hope again this this adds some value to to someone out there in some way. So thank you.

Bren: That's it. So everybody listening, send us in the question, say thank you and we'll see you all next time. Bye for now.