Macro

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[Music]

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hello and welcome to another episode of

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thinking critically a d d discussion my

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name is danilo a d d savant and i like

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all kinds of games and the crunchy

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mechanics that make him tick

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you can find me on twitter at down low

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underscore dnd and on instagram and

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facebook at thinking critically dnd

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today in quite possibly the most

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audacious crossover event of 2020 i'm

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joined by nathan briggs the dm of our

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dungeons dyson dudes actual play podcast

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nathan can you tell us a little bit

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about yourself

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yeah sure thing so i am a

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a content creator and i have uh been

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playing

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uh dnd i looked it up specifically for

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this since august 2018 and then about

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three months later i ran my first one

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shot and then so i've been

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dming a campaign uh i think it was i

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think it was the beginning of this year

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or just like december of last year and

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so far

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it's seemingly going well

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so if you're talking about dungeons

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dudes it's going very well yeah yeah

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it's um

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it's a fun time

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most of the time when i'm not killing

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everybody

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i think considering we've had two or

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three guests that are dropping in and

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out i think that's done rather

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seamlessly so

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uh yeah it's going rather well okay so

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thank you for that the topic of today is

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macro

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so

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nathan what does the word macro mean to

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you well i mean

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apparently not the same as what it means

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to anybody else on the internet because

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when i tried to look up like ah possible

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talking points for like macro subjects

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it was all just like macro keys for

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roll20 so it's like that doesn't help

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but for me personally macro is just the

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bigger picture stuff the the story of a

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subject or

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d as a whole it's um it's kind of

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instead of getting into

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character details and things like that

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who is that character

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on like a wider scale sort of thing it's

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just really kind of pulling back that

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lens and looking at everything overall

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so if we start with about as macro as

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you can get then all the way outside of

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the table outside of

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the dms outside of the players we can go

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all the way up to

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the bigger picture of

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d d in society right you know it's place

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in

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popular culture

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which is about as high up as you can get

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what do you you know what do you think

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about that you know where where it sits

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in popular culture you know whether it's

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a force for good those kind of things

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yeah well i mean to be completely honest

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when like when

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rob who has been on your podcast who ran

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our other campaign which is how we first

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met

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i did kind of

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for lack of a better term kind of rolled

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my eyes because i was like oh d and d

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like

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oh whatever sure thing i guess because

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he literally was just like hey

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i played with my friends i kind of want

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to get something to continue going here

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in southampton and so i was like cool

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i'll do one session with you as like a

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favor

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and then i'll bounce because

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that [ __ ] sounds lame even though i love

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our videos look at you now nathan look

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at you

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eating those words like so much money

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has been poured into dnd

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but because

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i wanted to be at least somewhat

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adequate it i was like okay well let me

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do the research so that i think the

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first thing that i watched was um

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dan harmon's quest

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to kind of get an idea of how to play

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and i was like okay well this is just

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basically it's a bunch of comedians they

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get together they are playing d d but

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they're not really telling you anything

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about it and

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then as i'm sure

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happens with a lot of people i then

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found critical role and that's when i

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really kind of found out that

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like the true scope of what d and d can

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be

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so for for most people especially before

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stranger things i think you'd probably

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look at or hear the indian you think oh

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uh sweaty guys in like a basement with a

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neck beard

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with like

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dorito cheese on their fingers

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being really weird and creepy unless i

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mean you've seen community or yes it

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crowd both of those do like a really

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good job of portraying it

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um

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is that some kind of sex thing far from

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it

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it's quite the opposite

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but as i say it wasn't until critical

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role where i was like oh man this this

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thing is like amazing it's a form of

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storytelling it's a form of like

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acting it's

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improv class it's

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it's therapy for people it's like it's

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so many things and it's just amazing

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whenever i talk about it i get super

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passionate about it because of how much

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it can encapsulate

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yeah i think it'll be a good discussion

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because you are

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as you've just said like quite a huge

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fan of that particular podcast i am

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not quite so much i've watched maybe 60

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of season one

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and i enjoyed it when i had the time to

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enjoy it i think i watched the first

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maybe one episode of campaign two and

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i get what i'm trying to do and i get

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that it's a

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you know

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it's good yeah

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to keep it simple however

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there are a couple of things the most

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simplest of which is

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it's a time sync right i i don't really

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have three hours a week to watch

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somebody else play personally without

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even being background noise there's a

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there's a podcast my only podcast i

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listen to which is the dnd podcast and

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you know those episodes are usually one

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to two hours

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and even that i find myself

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uh [ __ ]

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who's that npc

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and then i'm already drawn out a little

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bit so i think

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it asks

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quite a lot of the listeners i have to

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say

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critical role is asking a lot and

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you know you could you could lay that

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comparison to say something like lord of

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the rings which asks you to sit down for

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three hours times by three and has all

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sorts of fluff and law to it

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and you know people don't get on with a

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lot of the rings for the same reason of

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that oh god i really don't want to watch

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a three-hour film

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and imagine watching a three-hour film

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every week for

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three years uh is

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there's definitely people that do that

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oh for sure yeah uh the other thing i

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wanted to say

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is that i feel that

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i don't think it's a good place to start

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because it sets wrong expectations so i

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like that you had you already had a pool

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maybe of you know two or three other

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examples before you started with

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critical roles yeah

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a couple of the players in my game which

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which are brand spanking newbies such as

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yourself from in the past

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obviously all roads lead to critical

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role now but you can't really google

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deal yeah yeah absolutely seeing

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something related to it so they are like

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oh okay this looks popular i have no

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idea of how popular it is but i'll give

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it a listen you know like if someone

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googled video games and it was league of

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legends was probably the first thing

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that pops up they'd go oh this is this

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is a video game and in in

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that company and matt's defense they've

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said before like

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every game is different every table's

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different don't use us as a standard

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because yeah

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your dm is his own dm and so on and so

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on but if you watch an episode you're

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not getting that layer of advice

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especially to newbies who don't even

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know

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that games are different yeah yeah i

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mean obviously they haven't intended it

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to be this way but when you have set

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yourself up as being the biggest

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example of d d on the internet

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there's gonna be comparisons that people

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draw and there's it's always gonna be

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the first port of call for new people

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because all you have to do is type in d

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and d and it's pretty much

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critical role that pops up

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and obviously i don't want this to kind

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of devolve into just us talking about

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correct role because

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that's not what this is about but it's

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always a good touch point and i feel

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like what will probably end up happening

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for a lot of people is for me

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i started off loving it because

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i

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somehow have found a way to watch the

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first campaign twice and

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wow keep up to date with this one

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but i have now gotten to a point where

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i am now watching it for the story

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because of how well that world is

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crafted and the overarching storylines

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i'm no longer watching it for the fights

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or the gameplay mechanics because it is

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done differently to how i would do it

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and so i found myself being a lot more

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critical of it

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on the pun

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but it's it's still a really good

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example of storytelling which i mean for

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a lot of people i think that's kind of

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why you listen to a d d podcast because

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you listen to

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the the storytelling that people kind of

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you know improvising their characters

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and and the rp

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more than anything else for the most

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part i'm sure there's outliers that are

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like no i really just want to listen to

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them

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because i really like them as people

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which is always the way yeah but yeah

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yeah no i mean if if there was any

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episode of this podcast that we were

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going to talk about critical role it's

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going to be this year because of its

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ubiquity in popular culture it's the

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golden child right it's the classic

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success story rags to riches kind of

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thing so you can't fault it for for that

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yeah yeah it's specifically going from a

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homebrew campaign as everybody does and

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then kind of being jettisoned into the

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the stratosphere of being

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just

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amazing

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this is how you do d and d which is

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unhealthy yeah but it's gonna happen

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yeah and then when my obviously my new

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00:10:09,519 --> 00:10:13,040
players are like oh i've watched this

284
00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:15,360
thing called critical role and i'm like

285
00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:17,519
man you don't appreciate the weight of

286
00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:19,040
those words that you yeah i've just i

287
00:10:17,519 --> 00:10:20,880
just found this thing online this little

288
00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:22,000
thing that you know i don't know if

289
00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:23,600
you've heard of it down the line yeah

290
00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:25,600
yeah

291
00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:28,399
i have um

292
00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:31,120
and then you know i can't help but

293
00:10:28,399 --> 00:10:33,120
wince a little and think yeah man

294
00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:34,640
they're going to be disappointed

295
00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:36,720
well i mean it's

296
00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:38,079
it's unfortunate but i mean

297
00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:39,360
they've come out multiple times and

298
00:10:38,079 --> 00:10:40,640
saying you know

299
00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:42,800
as you've already pointed out you know

300
00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:45,120
this isn't this is how we run our games

301
00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:46,560
like this is me as a dm you know respect

302
00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:48,800
your own dm your game is going to be

303
00:10:46,560 --> 00:10:50,800
different i think i'm quite lucky as a

304
00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:52,160
dm that i am

305
00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:53,360
the fan

306
00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:55,839
in my

307
00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:57,040
campaign my players

308
00:10:55,839 --> 00:10:59,440
you know some of them have watched a

309
00:10:57,040 --> 00:11:02,000
couple of episodes but nobody's

310
00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:03,920
nobody's invested as much time as me so

311
00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:05,600
if there were any kind of expectations

312
00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:07,680
that's coming from myself that's kind of

313
00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:10,079
something that i'm putting on to me

314
00:11:07,680 --> 00:11:13,120
in terms of okay well

315
00:11:10,079 --> 00:11:15,279
matt mercer will pull a story fred from

316
00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:17,440
like episode five and pull it out at

317
00:11:15,279 --> 00:11:18,959
like episode 100

318
00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:20,880
and so for me that's something that i

319
00:11:18,959 --> 00:11:23,040
like that's a really good form of

320
00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:24,959
storytelling that kind of helps

321
00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:26,800
kind of reward people that have invested

322
00:11:24,959 --> 00:11:28,959
in their story yeah that's something

323
00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:30,959
that i want to be able to utilize in my

324
00:11:28,959 --> 00:11:33,200
campaigns nobody else is coming to the

325
00:11:30,959 --> 00:11:35,200
table being like oh god this

326
00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:37,200
this uh goblin that's friends with my

327
00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:39,760
sister better come back up at some point

328
00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:41,839
later down the road

329
00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:43,600
but if i can do that then again that's

330
00:11:41,839 --> 00:11:45,040
uh that's something i'd like to be able

331
00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:46,079
to do

332
00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:49,200
i think we can we'll talk about

333
00:11:46,079 --> 00:11:50,639
long-form campaigns uh a bit later on

334
00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:51,920
because i've got some thoughts on that

335
00:11:50,639 --> 00:11:54,560
as well and that's probably one thing

336
00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:57,440
we'll agree on quite heavily

337
00:11:54,560 --> 00:12:00,240
i'm lucky in that i was quick to jump on

338
00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:02,160
those expectations and say yeah you know

339
00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:04,320
by all means watch that but let me tell

340
00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:05,600
you that ain't how they all are that is

341
00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:08,000
literally like

342
00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:09,760
the best in the world that's like seeing

343
00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:11,200
you know maserati drive around the track

344
00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:12,399
and being like oh okay all cars are like

345
00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:13,839
that cool i'll just pop down to the

346
00:12:12,399 --> 00:12:15,120
local ford dealership

347
00:12:13,839 --> 00:12:16,880
well what do you mean it can't do naught

348
00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:19,600
to 60 in half a second oh you're talking

349
00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:20,800
about cars mate you've lost me now

350
00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:22,160
well that that's where you've reached my

351
00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:23,839
limit of carnival

352
00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:24,090
maserati and forward there we go we're

353
00:12:23,839 --> 00:12:26,639
done

354
00:12:24,090 --> 00:12:28,240
[Laughter]

355
00:12:26,639 --> 00:12:31,120
naughty 60 in half a second might be

356
00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:33,440
completely impossible so

357
00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:35,680
i've probably shown my ignorance to all

358
00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:38,079
the car fans are gonna like just descend

359
00:12:35,680 --> 00:12:39,839
on this episode

360
00:12:38,079 --> 00:12:41,040
what's this guy talking about

361
00:12:39,839 --> 00:12:42,800
oh that's cool so i've managed to piss

362
00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:45,040
off critical role fans and car fans

363
00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:47,920
within the first half hour dope cool

364
00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:47,920
you're doing well mate

365
00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:53,040
well on that on that wave

366
00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:54,800
another thing i've i've alluded to in a

367
00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:57,279
couple of episodes in

368
00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:59,600
offhand comments and i wanted to get

369
00:12:57,279 --> 00:13:01,920
your thoughts on it so

370
00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:02,639
when i started this journey i started

371
00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:05,120
with

372
00:13:02,639 --> 00:13:08,720
twitter as my social network platform of

373
00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:11,839
choice and i don't know whether it's

374
00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:12,720
inherent with twitter's user base or not

375
00:13:11,839 --> 00:13:15,200
but

376
00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:16,880
i got the impression with d

377
00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:18,880
that it's this

378
00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:19,680
almost sacrosanct

379
00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:21,839
thing

380
00:13:19,680 --> 00:13:24,959
and that no

381
00:13:21,839 --> 00:13:26,560
ill will can be put towards it so as you

382
00:13:24,959 --> 00:13:28,639
said back in the past

383
00:13:26,560 --> 00:13:31,120
it had a very negative perception it was

384
00:13:28,639 --> 00:13:32,880
this you know satanic nerd thing that

385
00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:35,279
only losers did

386
00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:36,800
which is which is funny because in uh an

387
00:13:35,279 --> 00:13:38,000
earlier episode with ian when he talked

388
00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:40,160
about his experience playing you know

389
00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:41,760
second edition way back when he met he

390
00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:43,360
was like man this was great we had six

391
00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:44,639
weeks off summer holidays and me and my

392
00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:45,920
friends would just play

393
00:13:44,639 --> 00:13:48,000
for like a week

394
00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:49,760
straight and it was dope and it was fun

395
00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:51,360
and we had loads of fun contrast that

396
00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:53,920
with a negative perception at the time

397
00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:57,360
it's a weird juxtaposition but anyway so

398
00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:58,399
now it's it's transferred from that into

399
00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:00,560
i

400
00:13:58,399 --> 00:14:02,560
i know i just find it weird i have a

401
00:14:00,560 --> 00:14:04,320
personal kind of weird dissonance

402
00:14:02,560 --> 00:14:06,480
between all the horror stories and all

403
00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:07,600
the questions you read online of you

404
00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:09,680
know especially on reddit where people

405
00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:11,839
are like this is garbage or

406
00:14:09,680 --> 00:14:13,440
oh my player punched me

407
00:14:11,839 --> 00:14:16,240
how do i deal with that at the table

408
00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:17,440
yeah and it's like [ __ ]

409
00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:18,880
punching back i'll call the police i

410
00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:20,399
don't know why you talking about this in

411
00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:22,160
a d context

412
00:14:20,399 --> 00:14:23,519
like you get

413
00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:24,880
so many of these questions but the

414
00:14:23,519 --> 00:14:26,800
moment

415
00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:29,279
you know i feel scared to say

416
00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:31,279
to somebody like that's not very good or

417
00:14:29,279 --> 00:14:34,399
yeah maybe you should do it this other

418
00:14:31,279 --> 00:14:36,639
way or it just feels so defensive i

419
00:14:34,399 --> 00:14:38,240
don't know if you've got any thoughts or

420
00:14:36,639 --> 00:14:41,040
knowledge on that from your experience

421
00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:43,360
yeah i mean as a twitch streamer i kind

422
00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:45,839
of feel like i need to be fairly present

423
00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:48,639
on social media but a hundred percent if

424
00:14:45,839 --> 00:14:51,279
i'm ever writing a tweet as an example

425
00:14:48,639 --> 00:14:54,240
yesterday i wrote a tweet that was

426
00:14:51,279 --> 00:14:57,040
pretty critical against an ability that

427
00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:59,519
a grave cleric can use which is like

428
00:14:57,040 --> 00:15:01,199
sentinel death door which is essentially

429
00:14:59,519 --> 00:15:03,600
an ability where if you're within a

430
00:15:01,199 --> 00:15:04,880
certain range you can cancel a natural

431
00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:06,160
20.

432
00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:08,320
and

433
00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:10,639
even right whilst writing it i was like

434
00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:12,720
oh man i'm probably going to get so much

435
00:15:10,639 --> 00:15:15,199
grief for this and i think it's just

436
00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:18,160
because where d and d

437
00:15:15,199 --> 00:15:20,000
means so much in so many different ways

438
00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:22,320
to so many people

439
00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:24,639
it's very much defended by a lot of

440
00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:27,680
people regardless of the manner in which

441
00:15:24,639 --> 00:15:29,839
you are coming to kind of criticizing it

442
00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:31,360
be it a valid point or not people are

443
00:15:29,839 --> 00:15:32,880
kind of blinded by that because of how

444
00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:35,120
much it means to them

445
00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:37,759
it's hard for them to

446
00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:39,519
to say or to think of it as like okay

447
00:15:37,759 --> 00:15:41,360
well this person is just they have a

448
00:15:39,519 --> 00:15:43,759
point of view that is maybe different to

449
00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:45,600
mine they just see it as an attack on

450
00:15:43,759 --> 00:15:47,360
something that has quite possibly helped

451
00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:49,920
them deal with some sort of

452
00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:51,680
personal trauma or or has kind of helped

453
00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:53,440
them come out of their shell

454
00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:55,360
and you know i'm sure there's fans out

455
00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:58,399
there that don't that aren't like that

456
00:15:55,360 --> 00:16:00,800
but as a whole on twitter it is quite

457
00:15:58,399 --> 00:16:03,120
difficult to say anything negative about

458
00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:06,079
d d and i completely understand why i

459
00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:08,399
mean as as long as you know that you

460
00:16:06,079 --> 00:16:09,920
have positive intentions that you're not

461
00:16:08,399 --> 00:16:12,160
just trying to be

462
00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:13,780
are we allowed to curse on here uh well

463
00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:14,110
both of us already have right

464
00:16:13,780 --> 00:16:16,399
[Music]

465
00:16:14,110 --> 00:16:18,240
[Laughter]

466
00:16:16,399 --> 00:16:20,079
as long as you you understand you're not

467
00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:22,720
like trying to be an [ __ ] or just

468
00:16:20,079 --> 00:16:24,320
being argumentative then it doesn't

469
00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:25,040
matter if people come after you because

470
00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:26,800
there's

471
00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:28,560
there's probably going to be at least a

472
00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:32,079
small portion of people like

473
00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:32,079
i mean he's got a point no right

474
00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:37,600
so i went to a sam harris talk many

475
00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:39,279
moons ago and

476
00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:40,959
one thing he said before

477
00:16:39,279 --> 00:16:43,519
you know imagine the worst possible

478
00:16:40,959 --> 00:16:45,360
state a human being can be in and you've

479
00:16:43,519 --> 00:16:47,120
set a precedent there and then imagine

480
00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:48,959
the utopian state a human being could be

481
00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:50,480
in and you've got the best and worst and

482
00:16:48,959 --> 00:16:52,160
humanity should always be trying to push

483
00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:54,399
from left to right and the same can be

484
00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:56,639
applied to everything and here's this

485
00:16:54,399 --> 00:16:58,000
weird duality again in that i think

486
00:16:56,639 --> 00:17:00,560
pretty much everybody agrees that

487
00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:02,800
critical role taken at face value is in

488
00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:04,559
quotes the best yeah right not

489
00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:06,640
everyone's liking but all things

490
00:17:04,559 --> 00:17:09,360
considered it's a really good exemplar

491
00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:11,679
of a successful dnd campaign

492
00:17:09,360 --> 00:17:13,760
which therefore implies

493
00:17:11,679 --> 00:17:16,160
that there are less good and there are

494
00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:19,039
less successful campaigns yeah so just

495
00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:21,039
just by just by its fandom alone

496
00:17:19,039 --> 00:17:22,559
we should be seeing that hey no like my

497
00:17:21,039 --> 00:17:24,400
game sucks or

498
00:17:22,559 --> 00:17:26,160
this is bad or i should be able to

499
00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:28,799
criticize somebody's game for being a

500
00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:30,720
bit garbage in in this area but then the

501
00:17:28,799 --> 00:17:32,240
moment you want to have those thoughts

502
00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:33,840
and the moment you want to be the

503
00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:35,280
contrarian

504
00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:36,720
it feels like

505
00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:37,919
everybody's game's their own you can't

506
00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:40,400
you can't talk about their game because

507
00:17:37,919 --> 00:17:42,320
you don't know about it well okay yeah

508
00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:44,240
all right but their game isn't critical

509
00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:46,080
role so

510
00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:48,559
and it just seems like there's no people

511
00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:50,320
can't make the leap there between oh

512
00:17:48,559 --> 00:17:52,000
yeah i know my gamers in critical role

513
00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:52,960
so therefore there's stuff i could do to

514
00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:54,799
improve

515
00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:56,880
yeah absolutely i mean there's

516
00:17:54,799 --> 00:17:58,799
we're talking about d d but i think

517
00:17:56,880 --> 00:18:00,559
that's the same with a lot of forms of

518
00:17:58,799 --> 00:18:03,840
entertainment that have a fandom there's

519
00:18:00,559 --> 00:18:06,240
always that staunch loyalty that forces

520
00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:07,919
you to be like no you can't say anything

521
00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:08,880
or bad about it

522
00:18:07,919 --> 00:18:11,440
and

523
00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:13,280
in terms of critical role like

524
00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:17,039
even matt mercer has like come out and

525
00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:19,919
said you know just because your dm

526
00:18:17,039 --> 00:18:21,679
doesn't do let's say voices that well

527
00:18:19,919 --> 00:18:22,880
that's not the end of the world sure

528
00:18:21,679 --> 00:18:26,080
that's something that maybe he might

529
00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:27,679
want to work on in in future sessions

530
00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:28,480
but that doesn't necessarily mean that

531
00:18:27,679 --> 00:18:29,520
it's

532
00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:30,480
[ __ ]

533
00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:32,240
now

534
00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:34,160
if you turn up to a session and your

535
00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:37,280
dm's like um

536
00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:38,240
uh i guess like you

537
00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:40,000
uh

538
00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:41,760
you speak to some guy

539
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:43,120
uh yeah he might have some stuff i'm not

540
00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:44,799
entirely sure like if he doesn't know

541
00:18:43,120 --> 00:18:46,400
anything that he's doing doesn't know

542
00:18:44,799 --> 00:18:48,240
any of the rules or anything like that

543
00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:50,160
then yeah you can absolutely say yep

544
00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:52,000
that was a [ __ ] session

545
00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:54,400
that's not you being mean but that's

546
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:55,679
just objectively there are certain or at

547
00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:57,520
least i believe there are certain

548
00:18:55,679 --> 00:19:00,400
fundamentals that you should

549
00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:01,679
be fairly decent at to have like a good

550
00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:03,200
session

551
00:19:01,679 --> 00:19:04,799
now that's not to say that there aren't

552
00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:06,400
people again there's always going to be

553
00:19:04,799 --> 00:19:08,400
those outlier situations where some

554
00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:10,240
people just literally rock up and just

555
00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:12,559
say hey [ __ ] it let's just let's see

556
00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:14,400
what happens but then is that is that

557
00:19:12,559 --> 00:19:16,640
necessarily like a

558
00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:20,080
a d and d session is that a true

559
00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:21,840
representation of what d and d means

560
00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:23,600
a typically

561
00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:25,120
you know who knows

562
00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:26,880
yeah i think i posted about it on

563
00:19:25,120 --> 00:19:29,200
facebook i made a tweet myself uh

564
00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:30,960
earlier on the week that said

565
00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:32,720
you know there are better games and

566
00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:35,760
there are worse games

567
00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:37,120
let's all agree that any given game

568
00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:39,280
might be

569
00:19:37,120 --> 00:19:40,640
crap yeah right and the example i've

570
00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:42,960
given before is

571
00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:45,200
when i turned up to one and it was very

572
00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:47,280
clearly wish fulfillment for the two

573
00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:50,000
joint co-op dms that would have just

574
00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:51,840
been happy to play the pair yes forever

575
00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:53,520
and that that was clearly like great for

576
00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:55,840
those two people

577
00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:58,000
but pretty garbage for everybody yeah

578
00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:59,200
absolutely i had a session that i ran a

579
00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:00,720
one-shot

580
00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:01,919
i think it may have been the second one

581
00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:03,679
i'd ever done

582
00:20:01,919 --> 00:20:05,520
and that was touching on something that

583
00:20:03,679 --> 00:20:06,559
you had spoken about on a previous

584
00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:08,240
podcast

585
00:20:06,559 --> 00:20:10,720
i think it was like a level 18 or a

586
00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:12,960
level 20 one shot i think you were a

587
00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:14,720
part of it it was the like holy wars of

588
00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:16,000
uh zanec or something yeah i think it's

589
00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:18,480
the one we talked about with simon yeah

590
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:20,320
and the i mean i'm sure that the people

591
00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:22,400
that have played before probably enjoyed

592
00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:23,919
it in like oh man this is awesome

593
00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:25,760
there's like a big war it's like oh

594
00:20:23,919 --> 00:20:26,640
there's there's holy entities and stuff

595
00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:29,120
like that

596
00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:30,960
but there was someone that was playing

597
00:20:29,120 --> 00:20:33,360
who had never played before

598
00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:35,840
and i just got tunnel visioned on the

599
00:20:33,360 --> 00:20:37,919
majority and so for him

600
00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:39,919
first time playing d d going straight in

601
00:20:37,919 --> 00:20:41,440
at like a level 20 character

602
00:20:39,919 --> 00:20:43,520
he probably didn't know what the [ __ ] he

603
00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:45,280
was going to do anytime and it was

604
00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:47,520
definitely like in the moment i was like

605
00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:49,039
oh he only ever seems to be attacking he

606
00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:50,799
doesn't really seem to be doing anything

607
00:20:49,039 --> 00:20:52,320
else and it was until afterwards i was

608
00:20:50,799 --> 00:20:53,840
like oh yeah that's because that was

609
00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:55,200
like the only thing that he really knew

610
00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:58,159
that he could do

611
00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:59,520
so for him that was like a [ __ ] session

612
00:20:58,159 --> 00:21:00,559
but to the others they probably really

613
00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:01,600
enjoyed it and there's always going to

614
00:21:00,559 --> 00:21:03,039
be

615
00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:04,799
it's always just going to be a bit of a

616
00:21:03,039 --> 00:21:06,480
balance really

617
00:21:04,799 --> 00:21:09,039
i think we can put a bow in it and

618
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:11,280
basically say that you know overall

619
00:21:09,039 --> 00:21:13,440
the perception of dnd is

620
00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:15,919
way more positive and obviously it's way

621
00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:17,760
more pervasive in popular culture yeah

622
00:21:15,919 --> 00:21:19,840
what that brings with it is the baggage

623
00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:21,440
of criticism essentially when there's

624
00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:22,880
only a couple of dudes across the

625
00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:24,480
country playing it in their basement no

626
00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:27,039
one cares and no one criticizes but then

627
00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:28,720
once you open the door then you get

628
00:21:27,039 --> 00:21:31,200
arrogant idiots like me making podcasts

629
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:32,559
about it well i mean

630
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:34,080
this sort of thing it's not the first

631
00:21:32,559 --> 00:21:36,159
time that this sort of thing happened it

632
00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:37,520
happened with marvel and dc for the

633
00:21:36,159 --> 00:21:40,000
longest time that was just people that

634
00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:41,840
read comics that was their area and then

635
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:43,679
they started making you know cinematic

636
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:45,679
universes about it and all of a sudden

637
00:21:43,679 --> 00:21:48,640
everybody has a podcast about

638
00:21:45,679 --> 00:21:50,320
the mcu or dc comics yeah that's a

639
00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:52,799
really good parallel actually

640
00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:54,640
one that hadn't hit me before but it's

641
00:21:52,799 --> 00:21:57,919
probably a very similar curve on the

642
00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:59,679
graph yeah of you know that exponential

643
00:21:57,919 --> 00:22:01,600
curve that probably happened in a very

644
00:21:59,679 --> 00:22:03,200
similar time period as well of basically

645
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:04,400
the past decade yeah absolutely i mean

646
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:06,320
it's only because someone else pointed

647
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:08,240
it out to me but like it was literally

648
00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:11,039
it went from if you read those sort of

649
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:13,280
things you were a nerd

650
00:22:11,039 --> 00:22:15,600
and now you've got jocks walking around

651
00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:17,360
with captain america t-shirts on

652
00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:19,600
it's like it's and it's the same thing

653
00:22:17,360 --> 00:22:21,600
that's happening with with dnd less so

654
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:23,360
with with the jock element

655
00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:26,480
but yeah the amount of times that i've

656
00:22:23,360 --> 00:22:28,000
mentioned that i run a d d campaign and

657
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:30,320
i just get random people that are like

658
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:32,640
oh well i've always wanted to to do that

659
00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:34,720
or i've heard of that any chance you

660
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:37,440
could run a one shot of muy it's just

661
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:39,120
slowly becoming like just normal it's

662
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:40,480
just a normal thing to do there's still

663
00:22:39,120 --> 00:22:43,120
a little bit of

664
00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:44,799
of hesitation around it but

665
00:22:43,120 --> 00:22:46,960
yeah there is a little bit there it's

666
00:22:44,799 --> 00:22:49,640
not quite there yet as three of my

667
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:52,240
closest friends staunchly

668
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:54,480
close-mindedly won't play even even

669
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:57,120
though i i kind of already half set up

670
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:59,520
caricature classes for them just to do

671
00:22:57,120 --> 00:23:00,640
this some goofy like this is a taste of

672
00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:02,559
what i do

673
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:04,559
spend all my life doing yeah and also

674
00:23:02,559 --> 00:23:06,240
when i told my mum i was like hey mum

675
00:23:04,559 --> 00:23:07,679
i'm doing this this podcast thing and

676
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:09,760
she's like well firstly what's a podcast

677
00:23:07,679 --> 00:23:11,280
down low okay well

678
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:13,440
let me here

679
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:15,679
let me build that bridge first

680
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:17,120
it's about d and she was like oh

681
00:23:15,679 --> 00:23:19,440
but who's

682
00:23:17,120 --> 00:23:21,039
gonna listen and then i had to have that

683
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:23,039
discussion and was like well hey

684
00:23:21,039 --> 00:23:25,200
actually it's a lot more popular than

685
00:23:23,039 --> 00:23:27,520
you might realize thanks for the swift

686
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:30,720
uh gut punch there let me uh

687
00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:32,799
let me bounce back from that

688
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:34,320
she's like but but okay well you know

689
00:23:32,799 --> 00:23:35,840
you might not have a big audience well

690
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:38,159
actually i'm hoping that there should be

691
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:40,640
an audience because it's now like the

692
00:23:38,159 --> 00:23:43,360
giga popular much more so than it used

693
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:45,120
to be yeah so talking of

694
00:23:43,360 --> 00:23:47,120
and it's a good segue so we mentioned

695
00:23:45,120 --> 00:23:49,200
there like marvel and their rise to

696
00:23:47,120 --> 00:23:50,720
popularity happened at some other time

697
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:52,880
and one thing i wanted to talk about

698
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:55,360
briefly is

699
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:57,760
d d is a hobby

700
00:23:55,360 --> 00:23:59,679
so you know as a thing people do in

701
00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:01,279
their spare time which again is very

702
00:23:59,679 --> 00:24:03,679
kind of high level you know even talking

703
00:24:01,279 --> 00:24:05,919
about dice rolls at this point yeah so a

704
00:24:03,679 --> 00:24:07,840
couple of thoughts i had around that

705
00:24:05,919 --> 00:24:10,320
were that again i keep coming back to

706
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:12,559
this weird duality of pros of the hobby

707
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:14,960
it can be free

708
00:24:12,559 --> 00:24:17,520
yeah so a couple of players in my game

709
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:19,520
have again staunchly been like i do not

710
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:21,360
want to spend any money on this endeavor

711
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:23,360
right excellent everything they've built

712
00:24:21,360 --> 00:24:25,679
is straight out of the srd

713
00:24:23,360 --> 00:24:28,400
so it's it's literally like a wood elf

714
00:24:25,679 --> 00:24:30,240
rogue assassin okay so he can he can

715
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,600
just fire up a free account on beyond

716
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:32,880
doesn't have to buy a single thing you

717
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:34,480
know he borrowed other people's dice at

718
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:36,880
the table and he's like okay that's fine

719
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:38,400
and he's having a super fun time yeah

720
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:41,279
but he's like oh i don't if i don't have

721
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:43,600
to i i won't you know money's tight 2020

722
00:24:41,279 --> 00:24:47,200
so on and so on all the usual stuff and

723
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:49,210
then on the other hand people like me

724
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:52,559
it can also be very not free

725
00:24:49,210 --> 00:24:53,600
[Laughter]

726
00:24:52,559 --> 00:24:55,360
uh

727
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,480
so yeah i just thought that was you know

728
00:24:55,360 --> 00:24:58,320
because i was trying to compare it to

729
00:24:56,480 --> 00:25:00,640
other hobbies and they're the one that

730
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:02,880
hits me maybe i'm most familiar with is

731
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:05,600
like warhammer and 40k yeah

732
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:08,080
which the the barrier to entry there

733
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:10,720
is a lot higher

734
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:11,840
it is absolutely not free to say the

735
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:12,960
least

736
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:15,679
well any

737
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:18,880
hobby that you get into

738
00:25:15,679 --> 00:25:20,320
can be as expensive or as inexpensive as

739
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:22,640
you want to make it

740
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:24,320
not flexing but i go to the gym

741
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:26,400
i could literally just

742
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:29,120
work out at home if i wanted to and then

743
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:30,960
that would be it that's me working out

744
00:25:29,120 --> 00:25:32,480
staying fair all that sort of stuff but

745
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:35,279
i choose

746
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:38,320
to pay for a gym membership i choose to

747
00:25:35,279 --> 00:25:41,279
pay for protein powder i choose to

748
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:43,520
pay for extra stuff that to me

749
00:25:41,279 --> 00:25:46,080
makes the experience more enjoyable

750
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:48,400
now it's the same for d d you can you

751
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:50,320
can do it as those two players are which

752
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:52,000
there's nothing wrong with that it's

753
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:53,760
absolutely fine they're still probably

754
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:56,240
getting the same

755
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:57,200
enjoyment as someone like me who has

756
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:59,919
dropped

757
00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:02,559
x amount of money on dice x amount of

758
00:25:59,919 --> 00:26:06,080
money on source books bloody all sorts

759
00:26:02,559 --> 00:26:08,559
of stuff like i've paid like 130 pounds

760
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:11,440
for a wooden dice tray so that i can

761
00:26:08,559 --> 00:26:14,080
roll my dice into it why the [ __ ] do i

762
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:15,919
need that i don't but it feels good when

763
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:18,159
i rolled ice in it

764
00:26:15,919 --> 00:26:19,520
and i must say it looks very nice damn

765
00:26:18,159 --> 00:26:22,080
right it does

766
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:23,760
but it's

767
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:25,840
whenever like people talk about how much

768
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:27,120
money you've spent on d d or even like

769
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:28,880
warhammer it's like

770
00:26:27,120 --> 00:26:30,000
at the end of the day if it makes you

771
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:31,919
feel happy

772
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:33,840
if you enjoy it if that's something that

773
00:26:31,919 --> 00:26:35,679
brings you happiness in your life who

774
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:37,120
cares how much money you spend on it

775
00:26:35,679 --> 00:26:39,360
really like

776
00:26:37,120 --> 00:26:40,400
it's probably more expensive

777
00:26:39,360 --> 00:26:42,320
well i mean it's definitely more

778
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:44,720
expensive if you are a dm because

779
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:47,039
there's there's so many more peripherals

780
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:50,240
that you have to pick up as part of that

781
00:26:47,039 --> 00:26:51,679
for me anyway compared to

782
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:53,279
i was about to say compared to some

783
00:26:51,679 --> 00:26:55,520
other hobbies but

784
00:26:53,279 --> 00:26:56,799
most hobbies are just there for kind of

785
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:59,039
socializing

786
00:26:56,799 --> 00:27:01,279
and kind of improving something about

787
00:26:59,039 --> 00:27:04,000
yourself because you gain a skill out of

788
00:27:01,279 --> 00:27:06,799
it and that's exactly the same with

789
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:08,880
dungeons and dragons like it is you

790
00:27:06,799 --> 00:27:10,159
meeting up with like a group of friends

791
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:12,640
you sit there

792
00:27:10,159 --> 00:27:14,559
you laugh you joke for a few hours you

793
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:16,880
eat [ __ ] food typically not if your

794
00:27:14,559 --> 00:27:20,000
body's a temple of course oh i mean

795
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:22,900
my body is no longer a temple if it if

796
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:25,120
it was it has been ransacked and defiled

797
00:27:22,900 --> 00:27:28,159
[Laughter]

798
00:27:25,120 --> 00:27:28,159
that's just december

799
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:33,120
yeah i mean it's weird when december

800
00:27:29,919 --> 00:27:33,120
becomes every month of the year

801
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:36,399
um

802
00:27:34,799 --> 00:27:37,760
but and this is the the part that i

803
00:27:36,399 --> 00:27:40,000
really harp on about whenever i'm

804
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:42,559
talking to new people about d and d or

805
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:45,279
from ever trying to pseudo convert them

806
00:27:42,559 --> 00:27:47,600
to playing it with d d the skills that

807
00:27:45,279 --> 00:27:48,559
you're getting are your interpersonal

808
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,000
skills

809
00:27:48,559 --> 00:27:52,720
improvisation

810
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:55,039
accent work acting

811
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:56,799
storytelling writing

812
00:27:55,039 --> 00:27:59,919
there's so many skills that you can get

813
00:27:56,799 --> 00:28:02,399
from it it's just such a great hobby

814
00:27:59,919 --> 00:28:04,000
there's so many benefits to it and yeah

815
00:28:02,399 --> 00:28:06,559
if you want to drop a

816
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:08,640
100 pounds on a set of dice that just

817
00:28:06,559 --> 00:28:10,960
shine and say

818
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:12,960
yahtzee when you roll natural 20 then be

819
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:15,919
my guest

820
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:18,480
i i bought a really nice set of metal

821
00:28:15,919 --> 00:28:19,760
dice like chromatic dragon metal dice

822
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:22,080
and because

823
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:23,520
of the way i am and i'm an idiot and i

824
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:25,679
do this in other areas of my life

825
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:27,840
they're just too nice to use so they

826
00:28:25,679 --> 00:28:29,440
just end up not being used

827
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:30,960
which is i couldn't think of a bigger

828
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:32,880
waste of money but

829
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,840
they feel really nice and shiny as hell

830
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:34,799
so

831
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:37,520
well

832
00:28:34,799 --> 00:28:39,600
there's also the the other element of it

833
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:42,080
where if those dice start rolling

834
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:43,760
natural ones all the time i mean

835
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:45,600
your hands are tied you have to get new

836
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:48,080
ones there's there's nothing you can do

837
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:49,760
about it

838
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:51,520
like when when you know websites and

839
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:54,080
companies would do you know three for

840
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:56,159
two on dice and stuff i know i'll often

841
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:58,240
i'm getting better but i'll often be

842
00:28:56,159 --> 00:28:59,760
like okay i've got them in my cart and

843
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:02,000
then i'm hovering over the buy button

844
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:04,000
i'm like no come on you don't

845
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:05,360
why why because i just not get used

846
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,799
because

847
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:09,200
you roll off four dice a session

848
00:29:06,799 --> 00:29:10,799
sometimes so yeah and it's it's just a

849
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:13,919
d20 so you don't even need all the other

850
00:29:10,799 --> 00:29:17,360
stuff well when the world isn't falling

851
00:29:13,919 --> 00:29:19,279
apart i mean the uh the justification is

852
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:21,039
like okay well i mean maybe i won't use

853
00:29:19,279 --> 00:29:22,320
them but if i've got players that have

854
00:29:21,039 --> 00:29:23,679
forgotten their dice then i can just

855
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:27,279
lend it to them

856
00:29:23,679 --> 00:29:30,320
sure that makes sense

857
00:29:27,279 --> 00:29:33,440
uh so yeah i used to play

858
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:34,880
40k when i was a lot younger in my

859
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:35,600
college days

860
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,039
and

861
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:39,279
that that was probably my closest kind

862
00:29:37,039 --> 00:29:42,000
of like nerd hobby to use a bit of a

863
00:29:39,279 --> 00:29:43,600
crappy analogy but it's quite an easy

864
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:46,000
comparison to make for me but yeah that

865
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:47,760
was i don't know a completely different

866
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:50,720
experience it might have changed now in

867
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:52,559
the preceding 15 years but um

868
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:54,000
something something must be different

869
00:29:52,559 --> 00:29:56,960
right because although warhammer is a

870
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:58,960
lot more popular it's not quite

871
00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:01,760
say critical role popular shall we say

872
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:03,200
yeah so it's uh an interesting thought

873
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:04,799
piece there on

874
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:06,960
why i guess

875
00:30:04,799 --> 00:30:09,760
and i think you know warhammer is just

876
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:12,799
more niche yeah yeah i mean i i can't

877
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:14,960
really speak to it too much because i i

878
00:30:12,799 --> 00:30:17,039
don't have too much experience with it

879
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:18,159
but the the same basic premise seems to

880
00:30:17,039 --> 00:30:20,080
be there and

881
00:30:18,159 --> 00:30:21,679
in relation to d d because i've walked

882
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:22,399
past a warhammer store and i've seen

883
00:30:21,679 --> 00:30:24,640
like

884
00:30:22,399 --> 00:30:26,799
a group of like 10 people laughing

885
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:27,760
having fun i have no idea what they're

886
00:30:26,799 --> 00:30:30,080
doing

887
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:32,080
but it seems very reminiscent replace

888
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:35,200
that table in between in the middle of

889
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:37,840
them with all the miniatures on it with

890
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:39,760
a table with some pieces of paper and

891
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:42,320
some dice and you've got basically the

892
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:43,200
same setup but because i don't know

893
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:45,279
how

894
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:47,279
warhammer works um

895
00:30:45,279 --> 00:30:48,720
with d and d it's storytelling and

896
00:30:47,279 --> 00:30:51,279
that's

897
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:53,120
if you if you break down most of society

898
00:30:51,279 --> 00:30:54,960
down to like one of the fundamental

899
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:57,200
things that it needs it's telling

900
00:30:54,960 --> 00:31:00,000
stories like we've been doing that as a

901
00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:02,799
human race for so many years now it's

902
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:05,600
just kind of ingrained into our very

903
00:31:02,799 --> 00:31:07,440
nature if something happens to you you

904
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:10,159
then go to someone else and you tell it

905
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:12,000
to them as a story one of the main

906
00:31:10,159 --> 00:31:13,519
pastimes that people tend to do is go to

907
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,960
the cinemas to watch films because they

908
00:31:13,519 --> 00:31:17,039
want to hear

909
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,720
strange exciting stories that they

910
00:31:17,039 --> 00:31:21,120
themselves wouldn't live and so i think

911
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:22,000
that's maybe why d and d is a bit more

912
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:24,720
kind of

913
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:27,679
being pushed into the spotlight

914
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:29,919
yeah all r is to convey a message

915
00:31:27,679 --> 00:31:31,440
essentially and that probably ties in

916
00:31:29,919 --> 00:31:33,600
quite nicely with

917
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:35,679
what ian was saying about how

918
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:37,360
the second edition and earlier editions

919
00:31:35,679 --> 00:31:38,960
especially when you're younger and all

920
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:40,000
those people have now grown up into

921
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:41,120
adults

922
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,760
it was

923
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:45,360
a bit more adversarial it was

924
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,640
a bit like funnily enough warhammer

925
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:48,399
which is

926
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:50,399
is combat right it's one person against

927
00:31:48,399 --> 00:31:52,240
another person one side wins once and

928
00:31:50,399 --> 00:31:54,640
loses and that's how the indie used to

929
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:56,320
be played by the the younger

930
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:57,440
predominantly male

931
00:31:56,320 --> 00:32:00,159
demographic

932
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:02,399
and back when the rules were a lot more

933
00:32:00,159 --> 00:32:03,840
mathematically based rather than five

934
00:32:02,399 --> 00:32:05,840
chapters on building a world kind of

935
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:07,600
thing but since dna has moved away from

936
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:09,519
that or kind of focused more on the

937
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:12,480
softer elements of it and as the

938
00:32:09,519 --> 00:32:15,279
demographic has broadened vastly

939
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:17,360
it's widened that yeah that audience and

940
00:32:15,279 --> 00:32:19,840
has become more of a storytelling you

941
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:22,000
know a medium to send a message to tell

942
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:24,559
it to tell a story as you said which is

943
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:26,640
quite nice again it's a weird parallel

944
00:32:24,559 --> 00:32:28,240
to roll this kind of rags to riches

945
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:30,080
thing of just the hobby yeah that alone

946
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:32,240
of critical role which is quite nice

947
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:34,399
yeah absolutely i mean like

948
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:36,799
if you look at the bulk of critical

949
00:32:34,399 --> 00:32:41,360
roles like catalog i'd say

950
00:32:36,799 --> 00:32:42,480
probably like 60 70 of it is just rp

951
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:44,799
and

952
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:47,360
exposition and kind of interacting with

953
00:32:44,799 --> 00:32:48,480
each other and then that smaller part is

954
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:50,960
the actual

955
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:53,200
call it's them versus the dm yeah which

956
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:55,760
i would say probably arguably is the

957
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:58,159
part that maybe people don't

958
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:59,519
cherish as much if i was the hazard

959
00:32:58,159 --> 00:33:01,919
against

960
00:32:59,519 --> 00:33:03,200
uh yeah no i'm inclined to agree but

961
00:33:01,919 --> 00:33:05,600
it's one of the bits that i like

962
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:07,760
personally is that you know the 60 as

963
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:09,200
you mentioned and then yes you know

964
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:11,120
technically there should be some sort of

965
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:12,960
balance between the three pillars but

966
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:14,960
personally for me and i've said it 100

967
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:16,880
times before is that you can't really

968
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:18,240
get it anywhere else or not as

969
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:20,480
accessible anywhere else yes there's

970
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:22,159
other tabletop rpgs which are gonna do a

971
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:24,080
very similar thing but we're talking a

972
00:33:22,159 --> 00:33:26,080
macro so let's lift it up another level

973
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:28,080
and take it out of dnd and into just

974
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:29,919
tabletop rpgs is that you can't get that

975
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:33,039
stuff anywhere else yeah so

976
00:33:29,919 --> 00:33:34,799
i like to emphasize that pillar more

977
00:33:33,039 --> 00:33:37,519
because when you go home and play a

978
00:33:34,799 --> 00:33:39,200
video game that pillar is shrunk down to

979
00:33:37,519 --> 00:33:41,360
like 10

980
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:44,360
so you can make up for it in tabletop

981
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:44,360
rpgs

982
00:33:45,820 --> 00:33:49,160
[Music]

983
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:56,080
so the first half we've kind of talked

984
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:57,679
about it meta in a way we've talked

985
00:33:56,080 --> 00:34:00,000
about it as a

986
00:33:57,679 --> 00:34:02,960
as a hobby yeah as a thing people can do

987
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:05,440
and there's a thing people enjoy

988
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:06,880
let's step to the side and let's bring

989
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:08,079
it back to

990
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:11,599
the game

991
00:34:08,079 --> 00:34:12,879
of specifically dnd 5e and the macro

992
00:34:11,599 --> 00:34:14,879
of

993
00:34:12,879 --> 00:34:16,079
running a game yeah so we've talked

994
00:34:14,879 --> 00:34:18,159
about the macro the hobby now let's talk

995
00:34:16,079 --> 00:34:19,280
about the macro of a game a session a

996
00:34:18,159 --> 00:34:21,119
campaign

997
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,000
so i think we both mentioned earlier on

998
00:34:21,119 --> 00:34:25,200
about

999
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:26,639
long form campaigns as i call them yes

1000
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:29,440
versus

1001
00:34:26,639 --> 00:34:32,399
short form or one shots which in my

1002
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:35,280
experience are rarely one shots

1003
00:34:32,399 --> 00:34:37,440
so i am probably very similar to you in

1004
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:40,240
that my imagination is

1005
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:42,000
runs wild and very very very quickly

1006
00:34:40,240 --> 00:34:44,639
does not fit into

1007
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:47,760
one two three four five sessions because

1008
00:34:44,639 --> 00:34:50,000
i've built this whole thing up and the

1009
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:51,520
other thing that is becoming even more

1010
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:53,359
apparent is

1011
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:55,119
the game i actually ran

1012
00:34:53,359 --> 00:34:56,159
last night

1013
00:34:55,119 --> 00:34:58,160
is

1014
00:34:56,159 --> 00:35:00,160
as mentioned it's quite a short you know

1015
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:01,839
five to ten sessions maybe it's actually

1016
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:02,480
probably going to be longer but there's

1017
00:35:01,839 --> 00:35:04,960
a

1018
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:07,040
well i would consider a

1019
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:08,400
simple dungeon in it i tried to hit all

1020
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:09,839
three pillars so there's a bit of a

1021
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:11,680
dungeon crawl in it at one point that's

1022
00:35:09,839 --> 00:35:12,960
literally in kind of like abandoned

1023
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:14,640
mines

1024
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:16,880
and i would consider it relatively

1025
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:18,960
simple right there's no

1026
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:20,720
loop backs there's no

1027
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:22,480
you know fog gates there's no

1028
00:35:20,720 --> 00:35:24,720
pull this lever another lift gives you a

1029
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:27,280
shortcut yeah it's not designed like a

1030
00:35:24,720 --> 00:35:28,720
dark souls level it's very

1031
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:30,480
quite linear there are a couple of

1032
00:35:28,720 --> 00:35:32,320
branching paths but it's

1033
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:34,720
it's literally like a classic room one

1034
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:36,480
room two room three room for room five

1035
00:35:34,720 --> 00:35:37,920
yeah and there are things to do in those

1036
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:40,480
rooms you could you could put it on a

1037
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:42,720
ruler essentially even still the first

1038
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:45,359
floor of that dungeon has taken

1039
00:35:42,720 --> 00:35:48,320
two sessions in of itself

1040
00:35:45,359 --> 00:35:49,599
so i have no idea how

1041
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:51,040
in fact i do have a bit of an idea

1042
00:35:49,599 --> 00:35:52,880
because i've looked in the past a couple

1043
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:55,280
you know advent published you know home

1044
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:56,880
brew yeah one shots and the dungeons

1045
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:58,960
typically they don't actually have

1046
00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:00,160
dungeons what they have is

1047
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:02,320
a building

1048
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:04,000
a mages tower that might have a ground

1049
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:07,440
floor and a first floor

1050
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:09,680
and that's pretty much it which i find

1051
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:12,000
kind of funny that the game is called

1052
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:13,920
dungeons and dragons and one of the more

1053
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:16,560
popular ways to play doesn't have any

1054
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:16,560
dungeons in it

1055
00:36:16,720 --> 00:36:22,400
yeah let's get rid of that uh

1056
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:26,079
that rather large chunk of d d

1057
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:27,760
yeah it's a weird one i mean most of my

1058
00:36:26,079 --> 00:36:29,280
one shots that i've run

1059
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:32,000
i've kind of

1060
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:34,000
cheated in the sense that whilst it

1061
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:35,920
works as a

1062
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:37,599
a one-off session

1063
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:38,640
i've managed to

1064
00:36:37,599 --> 00:36:40,400
set it

1065
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:42,400
in the world of my

1066
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:45,119
campaign so that i can

1067
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:47,119
play on that that area a little bit more

1068
00:36:45,119 --> 00:36:49,280
if it is somewhere that i particularly

1069
00:36:47,119 --> 00:36:51,839
enjoyed but similar to what you were

1070
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:53,359
just talking about the only

1071
00:36:51,839 --> 00:36:57,599
one shot that i can think of that was

1072
00:36:53,359 --> 00:36:58,640
truly just a a one shot was

1073
00:36:57,599 --> 00:37:01,760
something that i

1074
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:02,640
did i think i had an hour's prep time

1075
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:05,119
and

1076
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:07,200
it was just two people

1077
00:37:05,119 --> 00:37:08,800
part of like uh

1078
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:11,839
invading force

1079
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:13,440
a patrol had gone out to an area but it

1080
00:37:11,839 --> 00:37:14,800
had gone quiet and they didn't hear

1081
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:17,040
anything from them

1082
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:18,800
and so they had to go and investigate it

1083
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:21,599
and so they literally just investigated

1084
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:24,079
a small clearing with a few tents one

1085
00:37:21,599 --> 00:37:26,160
kind of fairly dilapidated building and

1086
00:37:24,079 --> 00:37:27,680
then that was pretty much it and they

1087
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:28,960
went in they found that everybody had

1088
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:30,720
been killed

1089
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:32,480
they killed what was there

1090
00:37:30,720 --> 00:37:34,160
and then they had to make their way back

1091
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:36,079
and that was it and that literally took

1092
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:38,320
like four hours

1093
00:37:36,079 --> 00:37:40,000
but for me running it whilst it was fun

1094
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:41,920
because there was like a horror element

1095
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:44,800
to it and there was atmosphere it felt

1096
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:47,200
kind of i guess hollow

1097
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:48,800
whereas like going into a dungeon

1098
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:50,880
there's so much fun that can be had with

1099
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:52,079
that i feel like that's one of them well

1100
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:53,920
i mean it's like half the reason that

1101
00:37:52,079 --> 00:37:56,560
you play dungeons and dragons

1102
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:57,920
so yeah i struggle with one shots yeah

1103
00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:59,520
so that's probably why we've both

1104
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:01,839
gravitated towards

1105
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:02,880
long form campaigns which ties in

1106
00:38:01,839 --> 00:38:04,640
beautifully what you're saying earlier

1107
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:07,040
on about let me bring in that goblin

1108
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:08,400
from 50 sessions ago

1109
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:10,720
i maintain a list of i call it the

1110
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:13,440
credits of the npcs that the characters

1111
00:38:10,720 --> 00:38:15,040
have met because hey i know their crap

1112
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:16,400
are taking notes and b there's an awful

1113
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:18,400
lot of them so they're likely to forget

1114
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:19,920
them so when they come back and they go

1115
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:22,720
down low who the hell is this and go

1116
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:24,880
well actually you met this person in uh

1117
00:38:22,720 --> 00:38:26,640
session 34. yeah

1118
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:28,960
my thought process there if you know

1119
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:30,320
this first floor of that dungeon taking

1120
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:33,280
well actually probably take about three

1121
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:36,240
sessions in total what amounts to

1122
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:38,800
three rooms so succession of room is the

1123
00:38:36,240 --> 00:38:42,560
velocity is the same for the long form

1124
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:44,000
campaigns and we are currently at 49

1125
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:47,680
sessions

1126
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:49,359
and the players have done were about to

1127
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:51,520
nearing the end of

1128
00:38:49,359 --> 00:38:54,160
kind of chapter three

1129
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:55,839
right out of potentially

1130
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:57,359
seven

1131
00:38:55,839 --> 00:39:00,160
damn

1132
00:38:57,359 --> 00:39:01,760
yeah so my original estimation was i

1133
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:02,800
think the first campaign of critical

1134
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:05,280
role was

1135
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:08,079
like 100 oh no how many episodes in the

1136
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:10,640
first well so the the first campaign is

1137
00:39:08,079 --> 00:39:14,800
115 episodes but they started when they

1138
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:16,560
were like level 12 level 11. oh wow okay

1139
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:19,119
my my podcast that i listened to not

1140
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:22,160
another dnd podcast their first campaign

1141
00:39:19,119 --> 00:39:24,000
was i think 101 in the end if you if you

1142
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:25,920
include the epilogue something like that

1143
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:27,440
so my headcanon was always like we

1144
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:30,320
should be done if we keep up this

1145
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:32,240
cadence by about 100 sessions in yeah

1146
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:34,240
which i guess is still technically

1147
00:39:32,240 --> 00:39:35,920
possible depending on you know

1148
00:39:34,240 --> 00:39:37,680
how much the players stick around yeah

1149
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:39,119
but that number's a little bit scary now

1150
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:39,920
i say it out loud

1151
00:39:39,119 --> 00:39:42,480
now

1152
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:44,000
for a number of reasons one

1153
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:45,280
[ __ ] that's a lot more content i gotta

1154
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:47,440
do

1155
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:49,119
b am i going to meet that deadline

1156
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:50,800
basically or am i gonna have to you know

1157
00:39:49,119 --> 00:39:52,400
is my budget used up and i'm gonna hit a

1158
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:53,520
hundred sessions and be like oh sorry

1159
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:55,920
boss i need

1160
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:57,520
i need another 50 sessions to to really

1161
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:58,960
see this through yeah

1162
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:01,599
so learning experience to me is trying

1163
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:03,359
to gauge player interest and we're all

1164
00:40:01,599 --> 00:40:05,520
at a place in our life luckily where

1165
00:40:03,359 --> 00:40:07,280
things are relatively stable which might

1166
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:08,800
be surprising given yeah given every

1167
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:10,560
year

1168
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:12,319
but luckily enough

1169
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:13,680
very very fortunate to find ourselves in

1170
00:40:12,319 --> 00:40:16,400
a relatively stable position so i'm

1171
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:18,560
hoping that the long-form campaign can

1172
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:19,920
play out for us now i don't expect you

1173
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:23,280
to go into too much detail about

1174
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:25,040
dungeons campaign nor do i want you to

1175
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:27,040
because that would spoil the fun yep but

1176
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:30,640
from what i understand it's again quite

1177
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:32,960
a long burn quite a long form yeah so

1178
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:35,359
so i've done one shots

1179
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:37,119
enjoyed it and

1180
00:40:35,359 --> 00:40:39,200
through the process of doing that and as

1181
00:40:37,119 --> 00:40:41,200
i said kind of creating these towns

1182
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:44,000
cities places

1183
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:46,640
had started envisioning a world where

1184
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:48,800
these cities would exist so the first

1185
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:50,319
one shot that i ran battle for

1186
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:52,640
stonehaven

1187
00:40:50,319 --> 00:40:55,359
that is a place where i think

1188
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:56,960
either your character or tim's character

1189
00:40:55,359 --> 00:40:59,440
is actually from i think it's your

1190
00:40:56,960 --> 00:41:01,200
character and so once that started

1191
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:04,480
happening and it kind of got things

1192
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:06,800
percolating in the uh neil brain box and

1193
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:08,240
so i started kind of coming up with just

1194
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:09,520
the world

1195
00:41:08,240 --> 00:41:12,480
and as soon as i started doing that i

1196
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:15,119
was like okay if i run this campaign

1197
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:16,319
one it's gonna be long and two it's

1198
00:41:15,119 --> 00:41:19,680
gonna be

1199
00:41:16,319 --> 00:41:22,560
more focused on story because it'd be a

1200
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:25,359
podcast it was always going to be for a

1201
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:28,000
podcast but with the caveat of you know

1202
00:41:25,359 --> 00:41:30,079
if that starts interfering with our

1203
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:32,480
enjoyment of the game then

1204
00:41:30,079 --> 00:41:34,000
been that off and so it massively helped

1205
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:35,839
by setting those expectations with

1206
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:37,839
everybody else first of being like just

1207
00:41:35,839 --> 00:41:40,880
so you know by getting involved with

1208
00:41:37,839 --> 00:41:43,200
this you are making a commitment for a

1209
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:44,319
year possibly two years

1210
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:47,359
and

1211
00:41:44,319 --> 00:41:48,720
luckily everybody is dead keen with that

1212
00:41:47,359 --> 00:41:49,839
and

1213
00:41:48,720 --> 00:41:51,440
it's going

1214
00:41:49,839 --> 00:41:52,240
well so far

1215
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:54,720
but

1216
00:41:52,240 --> 00:41:56,079
similar to i think what maybe some some

1217
00:41:54,720 --> 00:41:58,160
people have mentioned on this podcast

1218
00:41:56,079 --> 00:42:00,000
before i had an idea of where it was

1219
00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:02,400
going to begin almost immediately i knew

1220
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:03,920
that this was going to start with a

1221
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:05,040
hopefully not to trigger anybody but it

1222
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:06,240
was going to start with a terrorist

1223
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:08,720
attack

1224
00:42:06,240 --> 00:42:12,160
and that was going to spark a

1225
00:42:08,720 --> 00:42:14,319
potential cold war and then i knew where

1226
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:15,920
it was going to end and then so far all

1227
00:42:14,319 --> 00:42:19,520
i've been doing is just kind of putting

1228
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:21,119
down little lines to connect everything

1229
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:22,720
if you ever look at my

1230
00:42:21,119 --> 00:42:25,280
notes for

1231
00:42:22,720 --> 00:42:27,359
the campaign i mean one you'll probably

1232
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:29,440
break down and cry because they don't

1233
00:42:27,359 --> 00:42:31,760
make sense

1234
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:33,599
but in my head i'm like cool i know

1235
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:35,200
where everything is going

1236
00:42:33,599 --> 00:42:38,160
but it's it's just trying to figure out

1237
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:39,520
like ways to connect everything that's

1238
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:41,440
that's what i'm

1239
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:43,359
not struggling with but

1240
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:46,000
certainly that's what the uh the bulk of

1241
00:42:43,359 --> 00:42:47,599
my planning is i would say it's tough to

1242
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:50,160
do it in a way that

1243
00:42:47,599 --> 00:42:51,200
makes sense in universe yeah that's the

1244
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:52,480
you know that's the problem you can

1245
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:55,200
string anything together however you

1246
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:56,800
want but if the players go

1247
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:58,319
why the [ __ ] is this guy here when he

1248
00:42:56,800 --> 00:43:00,000
was on the other continent yeah two days

1249
00:42:58,319 --> 00:43:01,359
ago then there's no point in doing it

1250
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:02,640
because it doesn't make any sense

1251
00:43:01,359 --> 00:43:04,319
anymore or if you're playing some weird

1252
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:06,319
goofy campaign where everybody teleports

1253
00:43:04,319 --> 00:43:08,400
around then it makes sense but in most

1254
00:43:06,319 --> 00:43:10,240
typical fantasy settings it's

1255
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:12,400
yeah it's hard to string it together in

1256
00:43:10,240 --> 00:43:14,720
a way that makes in-universe sense and

1257
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:16,400
that's why i've

1258
00:43:14,720 --> 00:43:19,119
stayed away

1259
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:20,079
out of kind of willful ignorance almost

1260
00:43:19,119 --> 00:43:22,640
of

1261
00:43:20,079 --> 00:43:23,680
doing too much of the kind of political

1262
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:26,079
and

1263
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:29,040
geographical borders oh mate you've done

1264
00:43:26,079 --> 00:43:29,040
yourself a favor there

1265
00:43:29,119 --> 00:43:32,640
a lot you know all the world building

1266
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:34,319
tips you see online are like put your

1267
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:36,400
your capital cities together who's

1268
00:43:34,319 --> 00:43:38,079
warring with who and have they got the

1269
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:40,720
resources maybe this town has got wood

1270
00:43:38,079 --> 00:43:42,079
and this town has got water and they

1271
00:43:40,720 --> 00:43:43,359
need each other's resources and that's

1272
00:43:42,079 --> 00:43:44,640
how they've got this alliance and i'm

1273
00:43:43,359 --> 00:43:46,160
just like man

1274
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:47,839
i'm gonna [ __ ] that up

1275
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:50,079
don't let me do that

1276
00:43:47,839 --> 00:43:51,680
because it's gonna be bad if i do that

1277
00:43:50,079 --> 00:43:54,319
and i know that the moment i would i

1278
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:55,119
would do that players would be like but

1279
00:43:54,319 --> 00:43:57,520
why

1280
00:43:55,119 --> 00:43:59,200
or i've put i accidentally put a forest

1281
00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:00,240
near the city that's got water and they

1282
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:02,400
go yeah but they've got a forest there

1283
00:44:00,240 --> 00:44:03,160
down low so why are they fighting it oh

1284
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:05,520
i don't know

1285
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:08,000
[Laughter]

1286
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:09,680
i've not got a major in geopolitics

1287
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:11,920
don't

1288
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:13,440
yeah it's it's

1289
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:15,680
that sort of thing is is certainly

1290
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:19,119
difficult i like to think that i've kind

1291
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:22,079
of distilled the conflict between

1292
00:44:19,119 --> 00:44:24,560
the the two major cities that we've kind

1293
00:44:22,079 --> 00:44:26,560
of been in which is luxem and terracol

1294
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:29,280
to the base component enough

1295
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:32,000
that it's fairly easy for for players to

1296
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:33,520
just be like cool they're the

1297
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:36,480
questionable

1298
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:37,760
bad guys and they're the seemingly good

1299
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:39,440
guys

1300
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:40,720
uh which makes it a lot easier if it's

1301
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:43,599
just like

1302
00:44:40,720 --> 00:44:45,599
two opposing like ideologies most people

1303
00:44:43,599 --> 00:44:46,960
can just instantly get on board with

1304
00:44:45,599 --> 00:44:48,079
that yeah and

1305
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:50,160
because of

1306
00:44:48,079 --> 00:44:52,720
your surrounding environment informing

1307
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:53,920
your creative decisions it was basically

1308
00:44:52,720 --> 00:44:57,119
designed to be

1309
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:59,359
cool luxum is like the right wing and

1310
00:44:57,119 --> 00:45:00,960
teresa was like the left wing and that's

1311
00:44:59,359 --> 00:45:03,280
that's basically it

1312
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:06,560
but now i've got to deal with

1313
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:08,640
somehow orchestrating a war

1314
00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:10,880
that you are now kind of

1315
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:12,240
going away from which i suppose makes

1316
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:14,880
things easier

1317
00:45:12,240 --> 00:45:17,040
oh man that that makes us sound like

1318
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:18,880
right balance

1319
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:20,480
like we've lit the match thrown it into

1320
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:22,160
the haystack and then just gone yeah

1321
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:24,670
peace see you later guys which i know

1322
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:27,520
we've it's what we've actually done

1323
00:45:24,670 --> 00:45:29,520
[Laughter]

1324
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:33,440
um oh now i feel bad

1325
00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:35,680
nah nah it's but the even though it's

1326
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:38,720
going to be difficult the the fun part

1327
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:41,760
of it is uh for me anyway as like a

1328
00:45:38,720 --> 00:45:42,800
storyteller and a and a dm is how does

1329
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:45,280
this now

1330
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:46,400
affect the world

1331
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:48,319
that you guys

1332
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:50,160
are still traveling through like

1333
00:45:48,319 --> 00:45:51,040
although you're not directly interacting

1334
00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:52,880
with it there's going to be

1335
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:55,520
ramifications it's going to affect the

1336
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:56,800
world and the cities that you go to

1337
00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:59,440
so it's going to be fun but it's

1338
00:45:56,800 --> 00:46:02,160
difficult and props to anybody that has

1339
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:06,800
like politics and that sort of stuff at

1340
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:09,920
the core of their of their campaigns

1341
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:11,680
i agree completely like anyone who can

1342
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:15,119
do it in a way that is enjoyable and

1343
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:17,200
makes sense and has political intrigue

1344
00:46:15,119 --> 00:46:19,359
which is more than just

1345
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:21,760
there's spies

1346
00:46:19,359 --> 00:46:23,440
watch out yeah yeah i mean at that point

1347
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:27,040
you are essentially becoming

1348
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:28,960
a writer for a show you know you're

1349
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:30,079
writing house of cards or something like

1350
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:32,000
that

1351
00:46:30,079 --> 00:46:34,480
yeah which i could definitely not be

1352
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:36,319
anywhere near other than these guys are

1353
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:37,599
blue these guys are green and blue

1354
00:46:36,319 --> 00:46:39,599
people hate green people and green

1355
00:46:37,599 --> 00:46:41,599
people hate the blue colored people and

1356
00:46:39,599 --> 00:46:43,200
they're sometimes spies

1357
00:46:41,599 --> 00:46:44,640
go go players

1358
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:46,560
but again it defends it depends on the

1359
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:48,640
players right some people want that and

1360
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:49,920
yeah some people don't so it would be a

1361
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:51,520
wasted effort

1362
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:53,760
maybe to do that

1363
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:55,760
for my players and so in that respect i

1364
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:56,720
guess i'm lucky uh well they're lucky

1365
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:59,839
that

1366
00:46:56,720 --> 00:46:59,839
i can't be bothered to do it either

1367
00:47:01,359 --> 00:47:04,160
um

1368
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:07,119
yeah so at the moment there's a lot of

1369
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:09,520
they're almost like bubbles of

1370
00:47:07,119 --> 00:47:12,720
chapters each chapter exists a little

1371
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:14,640
bit in its own bubble there are wider

1372
00:47:12,720 --> 00:47:16,160
like implications like you said so you

1373
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:18,240
know they will meet people on the other

1374
00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:19,760
continents there will be oh did you hear

1375
00:47:18,240 --> 00:47:21,680
about that attack

1376
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:24,400
over there that kind of stuff is gonna

1377
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:25,760
happen but there's not really like

1378
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:27,280
the classic

1379
00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:28,800
you know like the witcher map where

1380
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:30,160
there's big swag

1381
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:32,480
on the map that you know you can't push

1382
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:34,000
that border forward not yet there may

1383
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:36,319
well be something like that down the

1384
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:39,440
line but that is certainly not my

1385
00:47:36,319 --> 00:47:41,920
comfort zone yeah to be franken my

1386
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:44,160
internal geography of trying to find a

1387
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:47,040
location in the real world is pretty

1388
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:49,200
good i have a pretty good intuition for

1389
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:51,520
directions and finding places

1390
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:53,839
but in terms of designing

1391
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:54,100
a world that's garbage

1392
00:47:53,839 --> 00:47:56,720
yeah

1393
00:47:54,100 --> 00:47:58,400
[Laughter]

1394
00:47:56,720 --> 00:47:59,359
yeah it's um

1395
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:01,839
because

1396
00:47:59,359 --> 00:48:04,720
as i say like i i came up with the these

1397
00:48:01,839 --> 00:48:06,480
two cities and i knew that i wanted them

1398
00:48:04,720 --> 00:48:08,800
to be pretty close to each other

1399
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:11,200
and then that's like as far as i got and

1400
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:12,960
so what i found myself doing is just

1401
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:15,440
kind of creating

1402
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:17,280
the continents and then putting rough

1403
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:19,520
placeholders for cities and stuff like

1404
00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:21,680
that and then just filling in

1405
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:24,079
information as and when people have

1406
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:25,599
needed it because once again it's in my

1407
00:48:24,079 --> 00:48:27,520
head but when i look at my notes i'm

1408
00:48:25,599 --> 00:48:28,720
like ah that's that's a horror film

1409
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:31,520
right there

1410
00:48:28,720 --> 00:48:33,599
but yeah in terms of like like distance

1411
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:35,760
i have a big issue with

1412
00:48:33,599 --> 00:48:38,160
yeah because i don't know how far things

1413
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:41,599
should be from each other yeah and then

1414
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:42,640
yeah and environments as well like if uh

1415
00:48:41,599 --> 00:48:45,040
i think

1416
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:47,359
you guys have got like an area

1417
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:50,319
coming up that is like a coastal

1418
00:48:47,359 --> 00:48:52,319
town city but in my head it was

1419
00:48:50,319 --> 00:48:54,880
swamp-like and then i had to do a load

1420
00:48:52,319 --> 00:48:57,359
of research i'm like are swamps even

1421
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:59,200
able to be near coastlines are they only

1422
00:48:57,359 --> 00:49:00,880
inland are there rivers that connect to

1423
00:48:59,200 --> 00:49:03,040
them and i'm like jesus

1424
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:05,040
god damn i just wanted to be a swampy

1425
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:07,839
city that's a bit spooky

1426
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:09,520
yeah yeah i i'd know that feeling only

1427
00:49:07,839 --> 00:49:12,079
too well and you know

1428
00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:13,839
well probably it would be me in in your

1429
00:49:12,079 --> 00:49:15,359
example i'd be like

1430
00:49:13,839 --> 00:49:16,559
why is there a swamp here you know you

1431
00:49:15,359 --> 00:49:18,720
know there's always going to be a player

1432
00:49:16,559 --> 00:49:21,359
that's like well hang on yeah yeah

1433
00:49:18,720 --> 00:49:23,359
or the worst thing is they go well hang

1434
00:49:21,359 --> 00:49:25,280
on why is there a swamp here oh there's

1435
00:49:23,359 --> 00:49:27,440
some naughty magic somewhere that's

1436
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:29,440
twisting and tainting the land and then

1437
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:31,520
the dms they're like no man i just

1438
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:33,040
wanted to swamp yeah yeah i mean i'm

1439
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:35,599
quite lucky that like

1440
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:38,240
george tim and psy

1441
00:49:35,599 --> 00:49:40,559
comparatively are all pretty

1442
00:49:38,240 --> 00:49:42,480
new to d and d and so they don't they

1443
00:49:40,559 --> 00:49:44,400
don't question a lot of

1444
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:46,000
decisions that i make

1445
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:47,760
um

1446
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:50,240
but i think

1447
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:51,440
for the most part as long as it is a an

1448
00:49:50,240 --> 00:49:53,760
engaging

1449
00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:55,520
area there's atmosphere you fill it with

1450
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:58,079
a decent amount of detail people can

1451
00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:59,359
overlook the the gaps in knowledge of

1452
00:49:58,079 --> 00:50:01,839
like

1453
00:49:59,359 --> 00:50:04,319
yeah a swamp being where there shouldn't

1454
00:50:01,839 --> 00:50:06,559
be a swamp yeah although i have looked

1455
00:50:04,319 --> 00:50:07,920
it up and it does make sense um okay

1456
00:50:06,559 --> 00:50:10,000
good

1457
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:12,160
you can sleep easy now it's okay

1458
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:14,800
yeah i can rest

1459
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:16,160
i do i do relish i mean this in the

1460
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:18,000
nicest possible way but basically

1461
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:20,720
turning my brain off from that thought

1462
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:21,760
process when i'm a player so i don't you

1463
00:50:20,720 --> 00:50:23,280
know

1464
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:25,680
i use playing

1465
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:26,880
as an excuse to be like thank goodness i

1466
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:29,839
don't have to think about this kind of

1467
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:32,480
stuff anymore so i relish not having

1468
00:50:29,839 --> 00:50:34,400
those critical thoughts and i use it as

1469
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:36,319
a time to not look too

1470
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:39,040
closely at that kind of stuff because

1471
00:50:36,319 --> 00:50:41,040
you're gonna find cracks and yep you

1472
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:42,480
know the stitching that the the dm's

1473
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:44,720
that to put in there to

1474
00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:46,960
stitch it all together and then it is no

1475
00:50:44,720 --> 00:50:48,800
fun for anybody so i use that as a time

1476
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:50,319
to go okay do you know what i'm just

1477
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:51,680
gonna take everything on face value

1478
00:50:50,319 --> 00:50:53,920
because nine times out of ten that's

1479
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:56,319
what the dm wants anyway yeah so we can

1480
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:59,359
all just move forward together yeah

1481
00:50:56,319 --> 00:51:02,480
becoming a dm is is certainly

1482
00:50:59,359 --> 00:51:06,400
i would say informed me as a player just

1483
00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:08,480
to be more receptive to ideas

1484
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:11,200
and yeah like not question things as

1485
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:14,000
much though becoming a dm

1486
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:16,000
i play maybe like once every six months

1487
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:18,400
now

1488
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:20,160
i'm like fishing and begging for people

1489
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:21,280
to run one shots just so i could play

1490
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:23,359
again

1491
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:24,559
let's get that hit get that fist oh man

1492
00:51:23,359 --> 00:51:25,839
that fix

1493
00:51:24,559 --> 00:51:28,720
don't even know what it

1494
00:51:25,839 --> 00:51:28,720
tastes like anymore

1495
00:51:29,599 --> 00:51:34,319
yeah it's it does give you that

1496
00:51:31,839 --> 00:51:36,000
perception of just take it on face value

1497
00:51:34,319 --> 00:51:38,240
and just like

1498
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:39,440
move on and i think with a lot of newer

1499
00:51:38,240 --> 00:51:41,280
players who've just gone straight into

1500
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:42,720
it there is that inclination

1501
00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:44,640
to be like

1502
00:51:42,720 --> 00:51:46,559
he mentioned a rock on the floor what's

1503
00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:47,839
that rock was that was there that rock

1504
00:51:46,559 --> 00:51:50,640
on floor where's this rock come from

1505
00:51:47,839 --> 00:51:52,319
yeah man you're in a cave there's gonna

1506
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:54,400
be rocks i mean

1507
00:51:52,319 --> 00:51:57,920
i've definitely shot myself in the foot

1508
00:51:54,400 --> 00:52:00,880
a little bit uh in this area somewhat

1509
00:51:57,920 --> 00:52:03,920
just purely because i have started

1510
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:06,000
introducing things earlier on and then

1511
00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:09,520
there's like a payoff later on

1512
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:11,200
and uh in particular time as well

1513
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:13,280
our particular campaign the players have

1514
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:15,839
died a few times and

1515
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:17,280
that's possibly in part

1516
00:52:15,839 --> 00:52:18,480
to do with me

1517
00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:21,280
having

1518
00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:23,680
uh run a one shot before and one of the

1519
00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:25,040
earlier quests there was like a pseudo

1520
00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:25,839
ticking clock

1521
00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:27,520
where

1522
00:52:25,839 --> 00:52:29,119
if they had taken

1523
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:31,280
multiple rests

1524
00:52:29,119 --> 00:52:32,800
the child that they were trying to save

1525
00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:34,800
would die

1526
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:36,800
if they hadn't sure they might have been

1527
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:38,559
a little less prepared but the child

1528
00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:40,640
would have been alive but because of

1529
00:52:38,559 --> 00:52:43,359
that it's now set this like

1530
00:52:40,640 --> 00:52:45,119
weird paranoia inside of them so now

1531
00:52:43,359 --> 00:52:47,599
it's just like nah just gotta keep going

1532
00:52:45,119 --> 00:52:49,520
mate nah just keep now push in doesn't

1533
00:52:47,599 --> 00:52:51,040
what big dark cave that doesn't matter

1534
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:52,880
it's fine

1535
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:54,880
um i think it's it's better to be that

1536
00:52:52,880 --> 00:52:56,880
way than wanting to take a rest every

1537
00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:59,040
two seconds that is true that is true

1538
00:52:56,880 --> 00:53:00,640
but yeah it's it's kind of shot myself

1539
00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:03,200
in the foot a little bit but it also

1540
00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:04,720
means that for them as players they are

1541
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:06,720
much more engaged because they're

1542
00:53:04,720 --> 00:53:08,400
they're like trying to understand well

1543
00:53:06,720 --> 00:53:10,480
they're trying to see if there's any

1544
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:12,559
details that they've missed which for me

1545
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:13,920
is is a lot of fun because either a

1546
00:53:12,559 --> 00:53:16,640
they're going to find something that i

1547
00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:19,760
have hidden or placed there or b i'm

1548
00:53:16,640 --> 00:53:23,520
just like i mean no that's that's not it

1549
00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:23,520
at all but sure you keep thinking that

1550
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:29,200
yeah exactly exactly yeah i need to

1551
00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:31,200
probably drop in a few more little

1552
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:34,000
nuggets myself of

1553
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:36,160
more obvious threads because that's uh

1554
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:37,760
i wanted to say earlier like it's so

1555
00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:40,960
it's something i struggle with is it's

1556
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:43,119
so easy as the dm to be like no you

1557
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:45,040
idiots this is a guy you met

1558
00:53:43,119 --> 00:53:47,200
and i have that memory

1559
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:49,440
crystal clear in my head yeah that whole

1560
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:50,240
interaction who was there the words they

1561
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:51,680
said

1562
00:53:50,240 --> 00:53:53,520
and i think to myself why the hell have

1563
00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:56,400
i remembered that

1564
00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:57,599
and it's so easy for players not to

1565
00:53:56,400 --> 00:53:59,520
yeah and that's still something i

1566
00:53:57,599 --> 00:54:01,839
struggle with even just beginning to

1567
00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:04,880
comprehend like such a huge difference

1568
00:54:01,839 --> 00:54:06,960
in what players and dms find important

1569
00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:09,839
and i you know as a player in your game

1570
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:10,880
i'm just as susceptible to that and uh

1571
00:54:09,839 --> 00:54:12,079
it's just something i find so

1572
00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:14,720
interesting and weird that the

1573
00:54:12,079 --> 00:54:16,960
perception is just so vastly different

1574
00:54:14,720 --> 00:54:18,559
despite playing the same game and

1575
00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:20,880
sitting at the same table

1576
00:54:18,559 --> 00:54:22,240
i have this crystal clear yes you spoke

1577
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:25,040
to that person

1578
00:54:22,240 --> 00:54:26,960
for three hours and they told you their

1579
00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:28,160
whole life story and the players just

1580
00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:29,200
like who

1581
00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:31,520
sorry who

1582
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:33,520
yeah i mean i

1583
00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:35,839
obviously not uh to throw accusations

1584
00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:39,119
but is that something on the dm's part

1585
00:54:35,839 --> 00:54:41,200
of not making that character memorable

1586
00:54:39,119 --> 00:54:44,319
enough is that something on the player's

1587
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:46,000
part of not being engaged enough

1588
00:54:44,319 --> 00:54:48,400
he's to say with you i'm not playing

1589
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:50,640
shade probably your players but again in

1590
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:52,559
our campaign i'm quite lucky that we

1591
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:56,079
don't really have that because quite

1592
00:54:52,559 --> 00:54:56,960
recently there was a reveal of

1593
00:54:56,079 --> 00:54:58,240
a

1594
00:54:56,960 --> 00:55:00,480
gnome

1595
00:54:58,240 --> 00:55:03,440
cleric who had

1596
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:04,720
i think they met back in session

1597
00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:09,280
two

1598
00:55:04,720 --> 00:55:11,280
and we're on session like 26 27 now and

1599
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:14,319
when they first met them the kid that

1600
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:16,720
had died was her son and she was very

1601
00:55:14,319 --> 00:55:19,599
distraught and they did some botched

1602
00:55:16,720 --> 00:55:21,040
roles and and she kind of like locked

1603
00:55:19,599 --> 00:55:22,720
herself away and before they left this

1604
00:55:21,040 --> 00:55:23,920
town

1605
00:55:22,720 --> 00:55:25,040
they decided to go there and just

1606
00:55:23,920 --> 00:55:26,880
quickly

1607
00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:29,200
visit and ulric

1608
00:55:26,880 --> 00:55:32,240
for whatever reason was convinced that

1609
00:55:29,200 --> 00:55:33,920
she was like doing some like bad juju

1610
00:55:32,240 --> 00:55:36,000
was like trying to bring her son back or

1611
00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:37,200
something like that but he had no proof

1612
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:39,200
and everybody else was just like you're

1613
00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:41,200
being an [ __ ] right now

1614
00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:45,119
like just leave her alone let her grieve

1615
00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:48,319
yeah and now 25 sessions later or 26

1616
00:55:45,119 --> 00:55:50,880
sessions later and almost like nine

1617
00:55:48,319 --> 00:55:53,920
months later they have now gone back to

1618
00:55:50,880 --> 00:55:55,520
that same town have found her house and

1619
00:55:53,920 --> 00:55:57,200
gone in there and found like a hidden

1620
00:55:55,520 --> 00:55:59,440
door where there was

1621
00:55:57,200 --> 00:56:02,319
elements of necromancy and

1622
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:04,000
the satisfaction of seeing tim slash

1623
00:56:02,319 --> 00:56:07,119
ulrich being like

1624
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:08,480
so vindicated in his beliefs and and

1625
00:56:07,119 --> 00:56:10,720
having that kind of

1626
00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:12,559
payoff and him remembering that

1627
00:56:10,720 --> 00:56:15,440
interaction

1628
00:56:12,559 --> 00:56:17,839
it's it's quite a drug it's quite uh

1629
00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:19,920
it's quite addicting to be able to to

1630
00:56:17,839 --> 00:56:23,200
deliver that to uh to someone that has

1631
00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:24,079
shown participation and engagement

1632
00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:25,680
mm-hmm

1633
00:56:24,079 --> 00:56:27,280
yeah it's probably you know six of one

1634
00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:29,040
and a half a dozen of the other for me

1635
00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:31,200
but i'm i'm a big

1636
00:56:29,040 --> 00:56:34,000
proponent of talking about memorable

1637
00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:35,520
characters a lot of people are normal

1638
00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:37,680
and mundane and yes some of them all

1639
00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:40,640
major npcs might have it might be

1640
00:56:37,680 --> 00:56:43,359
flamboyant or they might hold positions

1641
00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:45,760
of power but that's not always memorable

1642
00:56:43,359 --> 00:56:48,240
right yeah someone being in a luth bell

1643
00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:50,079
end isn't there's another person in the

1644
00:56:48,240 --> 00:56:52,400
way of the character's

1645
00:56:50,079 --> 00:56:54,640
adventure yeah sometimes rather than

1646
00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:56,240
anything too exotic

1647
00:56:54,640 --> 00:56:59,520
is there anything you wanted to

1648
00:56:56,240 --> 00:57:01,520
specifically talk about regarding macro

1649
00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:02,799
uh yeah i mean we've kind of covered it

1650
00:57:01,520 --> 00:57:05,920
a little bit but just in terms of

1651
00:57:02,799 --> 00:57:07,680
planning in general like a campaign

1652
00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:09,280
for me personally people have different

1653
00:57:07,680 --> 00:57:11,760
ways of going about it but i certainly

1654
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:14,640
found it a lot easier of

1655
00:57:11,760 --> 00:57:16,480
going in for the larger story elements

1656
00:57:14,640 --> 00:57:18,559
and the larger city points

1657
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:20,160
than going the other way like i

1658
00:57:18,559 --> 00:57:22,240
for example still

1659
00:57:20,160 --> 00:57:24,400
to this day i've got like you are on

1660
00:57:22,240 --> 00:57:26,799
your way to monilim

1661
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:28,960
a a fairly big dwarven city i've got an

1662
00:57:26,799 --> 00:57:31,440
overall understanding of how that place

1663
00:57:28,960 --> 00:57:33,359
works how the political structure works

1664
00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:36,160
but if you were to ask me what the shops

1665
00:57:33,359 --> 00:57:37,599
there or what the npc's there

1666
00:57:36,160 --> 00:57:39,040
having a clue i'll figure that out when

1667
00:57:37,599 --> 00:57:43,040
i get to it

1668
00:57:39,040 --> 00:57:44,960
yeah yeah that mirrors me quite closely

1669
00:57:43,040 --> 00:57:46,240
to except this current chapter they're

1670
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:48,559
running through i'd actually run through

1671
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:50,880
you know halfway previously so i had a

1672
00:57:48,559 --> 00:57:52,319
couple of things to fall back on there

1673
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:54,400
but um

1674
00:57:52,319 --> 00:57:56,240
i found a

1675
00:57:54,400 --> 00:57:58,960
like a flow chart

1676
00:57:56,240 --> 00:58:00,319
of the overarching story and then each

1677
00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:02,880
one of the characters pretty much has

1678
00:58:00,319 --> 00:58:04,559
their own flowchart i've put together of

1679
00:58:02,880 --> 00:58:06,160
the first couple of blocks of their

1680
00:58:04,559 --> 00:58:07,760
backstories and then

1681
00:58:06,160 --> 00:58:09,280
it flows into well if they make this

1682
00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:11,119
decision or if this thing happens then

1683
00:58:09,280 --> 00:58:12,960
this other happens and then a couple

1684
00:58:11,119 --> 00:58:14,799
where they cross over and this that and

1685
00:58:12,960 --> 00:58:18,000
the other and that's how i've planned

1686
00:58:14,799 --> 00:58:19,680
the next 5 000 sessions of my

1687
00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:21,040
never-ending campaign

1688
00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:23,359
but yeah

1689
00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:26,880
i said before in a podcast that's what i

1690
00:58:23,359 --> 00:58:29,040
find fun i think a lot more fun than

1691
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:29,920
almost the moment to moment yeah oddly

1692
00:58:29,040 --> 00:58:32,079
enough

1693
00:58:29,920 --> 00:58:33,440
and that's probably where i fall short

1694
00:58:32,079 --> 00:58:34,640
sometimes of

1695
00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:36,319
maybe i'm better at it now but

1696
00:58:34,640 --> 00:58:38,160
definitely in the past of being like oh

1697
00:58:36,319 --> 00:58:39,839
man down low doesn't let's just move on

1698
00:58:38,160 --> 00:58:42,480
like dana doesn't care about this small

1699
00:58:39,839 --> 00:58:44,480
little thing that everybody's fixated on

1700
00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:46,640
right now can we all just

1701
00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:48,400
move on to this cool twist i've got

1702
00:58:46,640 --> 00:58:50,400
planned in

1703
00:58:48,400 --> 00:58:52,319
down the line and that's a personal

1704
00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:54,319
struggle for me and trying to balance

1705
00:58:52,319 --> 00:58:55,280
that and be like no let me let me give

1706
00:58:54,319 --> 00:58:57,280
the

1707
00:58:55,280 --> 00:58:58,960
micro the care it loves because i'm just

1708
00:58:57,280 --> 00:59:00,720
so fixated on

1709
00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:02,400
the macro of

1710
00:59:00,720 --> 00:59:03,599
this would be cool if this would happen

1711
00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:04,799
and this would be cool if this would

1712
00:59:03,599 --> 00:59:07,280
happen and

1713
00:59:04,799 --> 00:59:09,440
like your monolim example of this town

1714
00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:11,280
will be cool if it's embedded on the

1715
00:59:09,440 --> 00:59:12,720
side of a valley yeah overlooks this

1716
00:59:11,280 --> 00:59:14,960
glade at the bottom

1717
00:59:12,720 --> 00:59:16,400
okay cool but what's there and i had to

1718
00:59:14,960 --> 00:59:18,160
push myself to be like okay or maybe

1719
00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:20,319
there's a couple of shelves and maybe

1720
00:59:18,160 --> 00:59:22,079
the bottom shelf is the the housing and

1721
00:59:20,319 --> 00:59:23,520
the middle shelf is like the shops and

1722
00:59:22,079 --> 00:59:25,280
the upper shelf is

1723
00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:27,040
like bel-air and it's where the nice

1724
00:59:25,280 --> 00:59:28,720
rich people live because

1725
00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:31,200
they're physically and literally above

1726
00:59:28,720 --> 00:59:33,119
those below them that kind of thing yeah

1727
00:59:31,200 --> 00:59:34,319
yeah i think

1728
00:59:33,119 --> 00:59:35,839
most of the time you can start with the

1729
00:59:34,319 --> 00:59:38,559
macro and then you can always filter

1730
00:59:35,839 --> 00:59:40,640
down to the the micro anyway

1731
00:59:38,559 --> 00:59:42,960
and most of the time

1732
00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:44,640
in my head anyway the macro is there's

1733
00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:47,280
there's certain plates that you're

1734
00:59:44,640 --> 00:59:50,720
you're constantly spinning via the

1735
00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:53,359
overarching storyline of your campaign

1736
00:59:50,720 --> 00:59:55,920
any kind of mini story arcs that you

1737
00:59:53,359 --> 00:59:57,839
might have and then the character arcs

1738
00:59:55,920 --> 00:59:59,200
and those you're just they're there

1739
00:59:57,839 --> 01:00:02,400
they're spinning and just every now and

1740
00:59:59,200 --> 01:00:04,079
again when story dictates it or when the

1741
01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:05,680
players have driven the narrative in

1742
01:00:04,079 --> 01:00:08,000
that way you just got to quickly run

1743
01:00:05,680 --> 01:00:09,599
over and spin it a little bit more just

1744
01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:11,040
to put a little bit more emphasis on it

1745
01:00:09,599 --> 01:00:13,760
yeah and everything else you can kind of

1746
01:00:11,040 --> 01:00:15,599
just fill in as when you need to at

1747
01:00:13,760 --> 01:00:18,000
least that's how i look at it yeah and

1748
01:00:15,599 --> 01:00:19,520
before you eventually serve that plate

1749
01:00:18,000 --> 01:00:20,720
to the players yeah then you dish it out

1750
01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:22,640
in front of them and say they go that's

1751
01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:25,520
that's your dinner for tonight i can put

1752
01:00:22,640 --> 01:00:28,240
that plate in the dishwasher now yeah

1753
01:00:25,520 --> 01:00:31,920
where did this analogy come from i don't

1754
01:00:28,240 --> 01:00:31,920
know but i'm really really invested

1755
01:00:33,200 --> 01:00:36,400
and then you get the tip and you pay the

1756
01:00:34,960 --> 01:00:37,680
bill and yeah the whole there's that

1757
01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:39,680
that's the whole thing

1758
01:00:37,680 --> 01:00:41,760
there's a whole thing there

1759
01:00:39,680 --> 01:00:44,319
all right so i think we're pretty much

1760
01:00:41,760 --> 01:00:44,960
there and this session has been a bit of

1761
01:00:44,319 --> 01:00:48,319
a

1762
01:00:44,960 --> 01:00:50,000
god a bit of a palette cleanser yeah

1763
01:00:48,319 --> 01:00:51,760
to continue it

1764
01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:53,200
just when you thought it was over it

1765
01:00:51,760 --> 01:00:54,640
ain't yeah that metaphor was going to

1766
01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:56,960
keep giving

1767
01:00:54,640 --> 01:00:59,040
a bit of a palette cleanser to the kind

1768
01:00:56,960 --> 01:01:02,079
of yeah we talked about emotions in the

1769
01:00:59,040 --> 01:01:04,160
last episode but it's very easy to you

1770
01:01:02,079 --> 01:01:05,920
know this is now a theme of

1771
01:01:04,160 --> 01:01:07,680
a bit of a higher level with quite a few

1772
01:01:05,920 --> 01:01:09,280
earlier episodes were around the the

1773
01:01:07,680 --> 01:01:12,079
roles and you know how to

1774
01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:15,520
build a character and what makes a good

1775
01:01:12,079 --> 01:01:15,520
player the moment-to-moment

1776
01:01:20,520 --> 01:01:25,520
gameplay culture and the good things

1777
01:01:23,119 --> 01:01:27,920
that brings and maybe

1778
01:01:25,520 --> 01:01:28,799
not opens itself up yeah it opens itself

1779
01:01:27,920 --> 01:01:31,040
up to

1780
01:01:28,799 --> 01:01:32,640
vulnerabilities and the opportunity to

1781
01:01:31,040 --> 01:01:34,319
drop a few of those spinning plates

1782
01:01:32,640 --> 01:01:34,770
that's it still going i'm going to keep

1783
01:01:34,319 --> 01:01:36,400
it going

1784
01:01:34,770 --> 01:01:38,720
[Laughter]

1785
01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:41,760
and then yeah world building which i

1786
01:01:38,720 --> 01:01:43,839
love to put my hands up and

1787
01:01:41,760 --> 01:01:45,440
to build those long term

1788
01:01:43,839 --> 01:01:47,680
payoffs and

1789
01:01:45,440 --> 01:01:50,400
i personally find it frustrating that it

1790
01:01:47,680 --> 01:01:52,319
takes me so long to get to those points

1791
01:01:50,400 --> 01:01:53,680
and literally i'm the only one in

1792
01:01:52,319 --> 01:01:55,839
control of how long it takes to get

1793
01:01:53,680 --> 01:01:55,839
there

1794
01:01:56,640 --> 01:02:01,760
cool so um unless there's anything else

1795
01:01:58,880 --> 01:02:04,000
you want to uh mention or talk about

1796
01:02:01,760 --> 01:02:05,599
no no i think we've done a pretty good

1797
01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:07,520
job there i mean i we're probably

1798
01:02:05,599 --> 01:02:09,200
stopping and i'm like oh man i've still

1799
01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:10,960
got like another hour's worth of stuff

1800
01:02:09,200 --> 01:02:13,200
that i want to talk about oh and just in

1801
01:02:10,960 --> 01:02:15,200
time for the cat to come in as well

1802
01:02:13,200 --> 01:02:17,680
that's it well that's a good i get a

1803
01:02:15,200 --> 01:02:19,200
stop point as any um but that's you know

1804
01:02:17,680 --> 01:02:21,599
hey if you if you do have that thought

1805
01:02:19,200 --> 01:02:23,839
we will have a a session two and i'm

1806
01:02:21,599 --> 01:02:26,319
toying with the idea of having season

1807
01:02:23,839 --> 01:02:27,440
one be the first pass and then season

1808
01:02:26,319 --> 01:02:29,440
two being

1809
01:02:27,440 --> 01:02:30,720
you know round two essentially or

1810
01:02:29,440 --> 01:02:32,720
approaching them from a slightly

1811
01:02:30,720 --> 01:02:34,720
different vector ah that sounds good

1812
01:02:32,720 --> 01:02:37,839
otherwise thank you very much uh nathan

1813
01:02:34,720 --> 01:02:40,240
for coming on and um enjoy your dm

1814
01:02:37,839 --> 01:02:41,440
holiday as much as i will enjoy mine oh

1815
01:02:40,240 --> 01:02:41,900
the christmas and new year period i

1816
01:02:41,440 --> 01:02:44,720
can't wait

1817
01:02:41,900 --> 01:02:46,960
[Laughter]

1818
01:02:44,720 --> 01:02:48,880
otherwise if anyone has any thoughts or

1819
01:02:46,960 --> 01:02:50,880
comments on today

1820
01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:53,520
you can find me on twitter

1821
01:02:50,880 --> 01:02:54,960
at download underscore dnd and nathan if

1822
01:02:53,520 --> 01:02:58,880
there's anything you want to plug now's

1823
01:02:54,960 --> 01:03:02,720
your chance uh sure i mean you've got me

1824
01:02:58,880 --> 01:03:05,520
on the brigzy on twitch and then twit i

1825
01:03:02,720 --> 01:03:06,799
think it's also the brigzy i've been on

1826
01:03:05,520 --> 01:03:09,520
the internet long enough that i've

1827
01:03:06,799 --> 01:03:11,119
managed to keep things fairly uniform

1828
01:03:09,520 --> 01:03:13,680
so yeah those are probably the the two

1829
01:03:11,119 --> 01:03:16,720
main places to find me either

1830
01:03:13,680 --> 01:03:17,920
recording d d or just talking about dnd

1831
01:03:16,720 --> 01:03:19,920
pretty much

1832
01:03:17,920 --> 01:03:22,319
yep and you can find us both in our as

1833
01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:25,520
mentioned at the start dungeons dice and

1834
01:03:22,319 --> 01:03:27,440
dudes which unfortunately unfortunately

1835
01:03:25,520 --> 01:03:29,119
will continue to be streamed i think in

1836
01:03:27,440 --> 01:03:31,039
the new year

1837
01:03:29,119 --> 01:03:32,960
i something drastically changes yeah

1838
01:03:31,039 --> 01:03:35,599
yeah more than likely

1839
01:03:32,960 --> 01:03:37,760
filled with enthusiasm

1840
01:03:35,599 --> 01:03:40,160
hey it's uh

1841
01:03:37,760 --> 01:03:42,079
trying to dm and then also running a

1842
01:03:40,160 --> 01:03:43,039
stream yeah it's tearing my brain in

1843
01:03:42,079 --> 01:03:46,079
half

1844
01:03:43,039 --> 01:03:49,039
i imagine it is a huge pain in the

1845
01:03:46,079 --> 01:03:50,799
backside and i count my lucky stars

1846
01:03:49,039 --> 01:03:51,680
every time i start and all i've got to

1847
01:03:50,799 --> 01:03:53,520
do is

1848
01:03:51,680 --> 01:03:54,559
put a playlist in spotify and then i'm

1849
01:03:53,520 --> 01:03:57,520
done

1850
01:03:54,559 --> 01:04:00,000
oh god sounds like heaven

1851
01:03:57,520 --> 01:04:01,920
but yes do do check us both out in our

1852
01:04:00,000 --> 01:04:04,240
dm and player capacities and dungeons

1853
01:04:01,920 --> 01:04:05,119
dyson dudes and thank you all for

1854
01:04:04,240 --> 01:04:08,180
listening

1855
01:04:05,119 --> 01:04:13,369
and good night bye

1856
01:04:08,180 --> 01:04:13,369
[Music]