Season 2: Episode 6 Talking with Petcare company owner Christina Russoniello about moving from the corporate world to her own business

Hi, this is Lynne Thompson Welcome to the Storied Human. Today I get to interview my friend Christina Russoniello, who has a really fascinating story about leaving the corporate world, forming her own business and making it work. So we're gonna hear about how you do that. She owns opponent pet care, which is a boarding and training pet care business, they offer personalized service for all kinds of dogs. For the boarding, she offers a calm and happy environment so that dogs can enjoy being away from their owners and not get stressed. And for training, she helps develop that connection between owner and pet so that the training can take hold. She has a master's in animal science. And she mentored with well established trainers and continues learning in animal behavioral science. So she's got a fascinating background. Very, very much a dog lover, but she likes cats too. And we're going to find out about how this journey started, how it happened, and what led her to leave the corporate world because I think that resonates with a lot of people. So welcome, Christina. Hi. It's nice to be here. So good to see you. Good to see you. Yes, yes. So why don't we start with just a little bit about your background? Like, you know, I think you have a really interesting background, your mother was born in Italy, had a really tough childhood, really informed her. And then your first generation. Yeah, and and part of that, there's a lot that comes with that. Part of that is pet, always looking for greener pastures thing. So you know, if you are in it, I saw it with my mother. And I did it myself. I mean, when I was, you know, in the corporate world and working in biotech, I used to go, well, this isn't fulfilling me enough. It's not enough anymore. And so realize much later that that's not a really common thing. A lot of people just go with it mean they go, yes, not enough. But you know what it works, it pays the bills, whatever. And that never worked for me. And so I felt like I had to do something different. And of course, the animals were a theme, right? From very early on. We were in I was born in Newark, and we were in a tiny apartment, and I'm asking my mother for a pony. Where are we going to put a pony like that? So then I thought, Oh, I'll be more reasonable. And I'll ask for a dog. You know, so we finally did move out to the suburbs. And we finally did get a dog and that it happened. really young, like nine years old, I was in the library pulling out these books on dog behavior written like PhDs. Right. And so I will be back. Yeah, yeah. And I realize how far back it goes. It does. And you know, even as a child, I had these ones, some a couple of really pingback wild experiences, because like, I remember I was walking to school one day, because that was back in the day, you let your kids walk to school by themselves. Yeah. But walking to school by myself. And this large it was like a colleague type dog came at me barking. Nobody told me what you're supposed to do in that scenario. No, like, now we have these like safety programs, like be a tree and whatever. But nobody told me that. And I just remember thinking, Alright, don't look at him. Just let him figure it out. And he didn't hurt me. He just, he was like, and he stopped a sniff me and walk away. I remember thinking, How do you know to do that? Just I don't know. Yeah, I really don't know. And I read somewhere that a lot of people that work with animals be at horses, dogs or whatever. They don't even know what they're doing half of the time. And that's why it's so difficult. Teach it, people and I've spent now 18 years trying to figure out how to communicate that my clients, how do I communicate, things like Boo are telling more to your dog with your body than your words are teaching them English as a second language. Like all those little catchphrases that I use, you know, really took time to figure out how to communicate that to people because I had a writing instructor told me this once our instinct was animals are all wrong generally. So you know, and that's not a bad thing. It's just that we're primates. Our instincts are derived from that. I never thought about that. Yes. And you know, napes Yeah, and dogs don't communicate that way. And horses don't either. And so So I mean, I did start really working with horses before I was working with dogs. And then I had to like, you know, grow up and get a real job. And having gone wrote your thesis on horses, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I was obsessed with animal stress. I still am. What causes animals stress and so So interesting. Now the poena is I forgot to mention what it who was gonna, she was gonna Celtic goddess, the benefactors of animals. And the Romans adopted her as a horse goddess. So you know, which was unusual, by the way for the Romans to do that they usually just wiped out the culture, but they liked they liked her story so much, they kept her, but, and it just really spoke to me. And the whole factor is idea, you know, the idea that I'm here to help. And I'm here to help create that bridge for people because, you know, and I hear that all the time. Like, I didn't know, that's what the dog was trying to tell me. Like, you know, things like counter surfing, which is such a thing of our existence, right? Dogs jump on the counter, and they steal things. They're scavengers, yes, what they they're hardwired to do, and they get bored. I noticed my dog does that when we've been too long, and he gets bored. Yeah, so create this sort of playground called the kitchen. Right? And they're like, Well, let me see what I can find today. You know, so we have to strike that balance with living with this creature, but honoring their instincts, but also making them somewhat civilized, so that it can work, you know. So that's, that's part of what informs what I do, you know, to try to create that bridge. Anyway, so, so yeah, so I went and then, you know, I got a degree in animal science, because I loved animals. It makes sense. So the science of animals and focusing on behavior, and no, we looked at a performance horses like open jumpers, and basically looking at certain stress parameters for and after a competition, trying to figure out whether the competition was stressful to them. And, you know, it's really interesting, because there's this idea that everything we do with these kind of work animals is terrible. That's not necessarily so because what we found was the NBA champions, the ones that were seasoned, so open jumpers, he actually had lower stress levels after competition. They were like, they just liked it. Yeah, they liked it. You can sort of feel that and people talk about that, like owners of these animals. Like I see that in dog shows too. Like they they like it. They like it. Oh, yeah. Like when? When there's applause, they're like, Yeah. Something like they get it. Yeah. It depends on the animal. They're not you have to be careful not all animal. Right? Right. And no interest end to end. Yep. And there's a right way. I always say there's a right way and a wrong way to do everything. Right. So it's not an excuse for abuse. Right now. So I'm good. Anyway. So I graduated with this degree. And and, you know, there's a big demand for people in big demand in biotech and pharma for people who can work with the animals. So they come at you and throw all this money at you. And you're like, oh, and it's very seductive. And so I went down that road, but it wasn't really me. It really didn't make me happy. I mean, it pays the bills. It was really great. That way, the money is wonderful. The people are fantastic. The intellectual stimulation is incredible. It just wasn't enough. And that's my point. Yeah. How did that coincide with having a child like, did that just sort of it played more like into focus for you? Yeah, it did. Because I think when you Well, I should speak for myself. When I had my son felt like if I was going to be away from him, it had to be something that was for a really good reason. It had to be something very fulfilling. Yeah. And so I'm like, I'm sitting there in these meetings, bored out of my mind going. Alright, so what am I doing? Now? What am I doing here? Like, why, why? Why am I doing this? Is there a better way? And it's going back to that? Grass Is Greener idea, right? Because it's like, okay, this hour, I'm away from my child. I'm not doing something that's bring me joy. And there is a better place for me. And so I started thinking about it. And it was funny because my company in 1996, this was actually before my son was born. They sent me out to San Diego to present a paper, you know, as you do. And after the conference, I took a few days just to tourist in San Diego, and I went to the that famous dog beach in San Diego. Yeah. And I had this epiphany. I was like, Oh, my God. Daycare. We should have doggy daycares. No one had done it yet. Now, it wasn't a thing. And there was one well, it wasn't a thing on the East Coast. Let's put it that way. There was one doggy daycare like an Oregon or something. And it really hadn't taken off like it is now. I mean, I then later realize it wasn't for me because it just I didn't see it as fancy a way to create a doggy daycare without creating a lot of stress for a lot of dogs and make money at the same time. So I kind of attacked Oh, and I evolved into what I'm doing now. Right? It's really funny because I think when you set out to start a business, you kind of have to be open to the idea of the pivot. You think Oh, I love that. Yeah, you think you know what you want? Think that okay, I have this idea. This is brilliant. Actually, a lot of people are making a lot of money with doggy daycare. So does work. The business model? Yeah. But then you have to go, Well, does it fit for me? Does it fit for my lifestyle? Does, you know, I? And can I do this? And you know, so things kind of evolved. And now I ended up with this more boutique II approach where it's more personalized care. It really suits me better. And so it works for me and explain for the listeners that you have a really cool setup for board games. So and it is really unique, like we looked around. Nobody else does this. Nobody else does this. Oh, so I'm in Hunterdon County. So as you find in Hunterdon County, we have two houses on our property, we have our house in a little cottage. And of course, you know, there was the idea of renting the cottage to humans, like that's what normal people do. We had been through this process of like, just, you know, interviewing potential tenants. And kind of like that this is kind of not resonating with any of these people. And I don't know that I want them 50 feet from my house. And I have a little kid you know, and all this stuff. That week that we were interviewing everyone, I got three phone calls, because I'd already started a pet sitting business at that point. I got three phone calls asking me if I board dogs. And I remember standing in my driveway with my husband. I'm like somebody else who wants to board dogs here. We both looked at the cottage. And we looked at each other we went, Wait a minute, we have an extra building. That's so excellent. So every family like whether it's one dog or two dogs, they get their own bedroom. Right, but families together, but we don't commingle different families. So they get their own bedroom, there's a bed, then the pet parents can bring anything they want. I have the gamut. Some people just hand me a bag of food. And the dog. Other people it's like they're bringing their child to camp, or toys. And you know mommy's things that so they have the smell like it's the whole thing. Whatever you want to do, that's what we do. And I create while they're here, I create games for them, we go on long hikes in the woods, and we just, you know, have a good time. So this whole approach, and we should mention that you live on 17 beautiful acres of land and woods. So it's dog heaven, it is dog heaven, and we have a great time. And there's an outside run around space and an inside run around space. Because when it's raining, we want to have a place to play inside. Yeah, and so we have both. And so So yeah, so and you know, when we even that's not even sometimes what the dogs want. Sometimes when I have older dogs, and we are really deal for the older dog ate, all the dog wants to do is sit on your lap. And we'll do that, you know, that. I mean, I love that you I love that you give such customized care. But I also just want to say you just love the dogs. Yeah, I mean, that's like the big, like, that's the secret sauce. It is you love them. And they come there and they're taken care of somebody really loves them. Well, and it is I think what has to you have to love that component of it, like whatever business you go into, there has to be that spark, and you know, I, you know it, you have to have that burning desire to do the thing or with the thing or whatever it is. And you know, like, and the animals have been my kind of, I don't know, I think for my whole life that I had to be with them. And so and I just love that, you know, you're out, you combined, you always kept that animal, you just kept pivoting and combining but keeping that central animal component. And I love that you said you have to be ready to pivot because I took this podcasting class, and a lot of it was they did teach us the technical stuff. But a lot of it was about mindset, and how to not be afraid to jump in and how you don't have to be perfect. And how you can be messy and be a B student. You don't have to be an A student. And so it made a start. And I started something, I never would have started that way. And then they said, hey, if it doesn't work out, you can pivot and they just kept talking about that. So you just naturally grasp that. I mean, people used to take classes to learn this. Well, you know, we weren't well, yeah, that's probably true. But we weren't rich, right? I mean, we didn't have like $500,000 to sink into starting a new business. And I remember thinking, Well, what can I do with a very low startup costs? Well, your pets it. I have a car. I have a phone. So you really need that. Oh, and and I, you know, I just did it that way because that was it was very easy to make my own hours to do what I wanted to do. And so that's where I started and then always with the intention of expanding to other services. But I think grew it and grow the business. Yeah, but I do. How long has it been? It's been a while right? We're for 17 years. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And you know, and I always knew this would take me to retirement like that was always the plan. So you know, when they think it will. But you know, I think I see that a lot and people that start businesses, they tried to do too much at once. No, and you can't do that. You have to take one thing, get really good at that, and then really start moving on. I think, anyway, that's what worked for me, because that was no, you remind me a little of my brother. He said, Yeah. He said, You know, don't go out and buy swag or No, no, exactly. I didn't buy swag until it was eight years in. Yeah. All right, yeah, maybe I'll buy some swag that I had to play around with, because I got different things and weren't that excited with them, and then ended up settling on the lids for dog food cans. You just never know. Right? But that's, that's I mean, that is such a simple you like you're flexible. And so you can always adapt. And I don't think everyone has that. And I think that's kind of like what I keep seeing in entrepreneurs, people who become entrepreneurs. My brother too. He was always shifting, always adapting, always change, you have to Yeah, his product and listening to the users you have to the customers? Well, the world changes, right the world does. So you can't expect that if you start a business and do one thing that that will not change the world around you will not change. That's, that's not reasonable. So you're dealing with the public all the time. So you have to be sort of like you have to have an ear open to them. So absolutely. Training like how did that develop? Like how long that goes back to that nine year old me in the library? Looking up? How do you know how do animals think now and keep in mind when I was in college and grad school, which was, you know, when dinosaurs roamed the earth, me to the idea that an animal had any kind of cognition was radical. As a radical idea. Of course, now we're having seminars on, you know, dog emotions, like know what I'm saying. So yeah, we've come a long way. And of course, I mean, I don't think this will be a surprise to anyone. My hero was Jane Goodall growing up, I was gonna say she realized it before everybody else. Oh, she revolutionized the field. Because no, not for nothing. But the men would set up these observations or so called observations of the wild animals, they would create artificial environments. And, and now we, you know, this is my pet peeve about the whole dominance theory and dog. And I use the word theory very intentionally, because it is just a theory. And it's been debunked, but put that aside for now. So what they did was they this was like, I think was the 30s. But he took these adolescent, male wolves, threw them together couldn't be a more unnatural situation in the wolf were Oh, right. So of course, there was conflict, and conflict over resources. I mean, that they set it up that way. And then they kind of extrapolated that one thing to all of dog behavior. Being it's appalling, really, if you think about it, in Goodall came along and said, No, no, no, you have to do is make yourself out of the ground. So you can see how the animals actually genuinely interact. And what we learned about wolves, when people actually started doing that, is that wolves operate on the level of family, not on this corporate Alpha dynamic. I mean, it's really hysterical because we just imposed all of this human stuff on them doesn't really apply. Dogs have no compete over resources. Absolutely. Is there such a thing as leadership in the dog world? Sure. But you're not competing for leadership with your dog. This would kill us. Now, that's interesting, because we've all been told that Oh, yeah. Yeah. Because I repeat it. Yeah. Konrad Lorenz, who is revered in the, in the animal behavior world? No. Well, you know, my thing about him, I mean, you know, he wrote a letter to his mother, but how excited he was being accepted into the Nazi party. So but everybody glosses over. But it's actually irrelevant. Because they had that whole idea of superior inferior human power over Yeah, our Oh, yeah. So they had to, like, impose that on the animal world. But that's so interesting. I think so often that happened. Because I remember reading a book by Marilyn French, she did this big fat nonfiction book. She's a novelist. But she also did this nonfiction book called Beyond power. Oh, yeah. And it was men, women, men and morals. Yeah. And she made a really good case for the fact that, that we do that, that we impose this corporate structure as we're looking at the neck. She started with the animal world. Yeah. And she said, you know, really pretty rare in the animal world. Yet men see it all the time. Like men scientists see it all the time, because they don't understand Yep. And you know, fascinating it is. And the bottom line though, is that no Jane Goodall learned more about primate behavior. All the men that came before her. I mean, she really cracked it open know, as far as the the field itself and expanded the understanding. And we're kind of in that space. Now, I think with dogs, there are actually research institutes that are looking at no dogs versus versus wolves. And that's the other fascinating part of this, because, you know, even on TV, they're always having commercials about how your dog has an inner wolf tour. And it's too true. No, they didn't evolve from some wolf like creature, but you know, what? Dog will look to a human for help and solving a puzzle will follow many dogs will naturally follow your point, something, Wolf is like no, I got this doesn't have that conduct built in connection dogs come with, like a computer port to make a connection with the humans. They've been wired don't have that. So to compare wolf behavior to dog behavior is flawed on that level, too. That's like, really interesting, because we all do that. We all repeat that, oh, Wolf. He's like a wolf. And but there's been so many years, you know, and so much breeding since that time, right. And selection. Yeah, we've selected for the dogs that want to work. And of course, there's, you know, a great variety of dogs and right, there's, you know, everything for the Border Collie to the Chihuahua. So you know, those are not the same in any stretch of the imagination. But still, they're not neither of them are wolves, you know. So that's kind of i that is a bit of my soapbox, and I do try to deliver a gently to people because I don't want to rock their world much because you know, then you don't create an atmosphere for learning, right? I love this. I had this one client a couple of years ago. And I always use him because I just I adored this man. He was, you know, he's an older man. And the couple was older couple. And, you know, they had always had labs, like in their 80s At this point, and they get this very rambunctious lab puppy, because they always had labs, right, but now they're at. So they're like, but anyway, so whatever. So. So I go into the lesson, first thing, he says to me, I want to know how to correct this dog need to tell me how to punish him. And this is my Pat edge. I'm like, Oh, we'll get to that site for a minute. I need to tell you some other things first, but you know, we'll come around to that. Well, we did three lessons, and the dog was doing beautifully. And at the end of the third lesson, he goes, Oh, I just realized something. I don't have to correct her. He just knows what to do. Like, yeah. Oh, my God. Your magic. See you did your magic. Yeah. But it's just you know, I don't tell him he's wrong. Yeah. Don't tell them they're wrong. Right? Just say, let's look at it this way for a minute, then we'll go to that way. Let's try it this way, just for a minute, and see if that'll work. Because, and I always say I really prefer to tell the dog what I want before I start punishing them, wishing them for making mistakes. Right? So no, and this is starting to happen in the horse world, which really gives me joy. Because one of the reasons why I walked away from that world was because it is so cruel, so much abuse. Now. There are some people around the world doing some amazing things right now in just communicating to the horse we want to do for us and satisfying their needs in any given situation. And it's really wonderful watch. There's a gentle approach. Yeah, it is a gentleness. Yeah. And some people are uncomfortable with that. So I think eventually we'll get there. And it's just an you know, gotta say the dogs themselves taught me so much of that, though. It wasn't just the studying in the reading because I you remember Roscoe? I got this Rhodesian Ridgeback because he was about to become aggressive. His family couldn't handle him and kept running away and terrorizing people on the golf course that was next door to them. So, and they were being threatened with lawsuits. I mean, it was bad. And, you know, when he came to me, I was still in that kind of old school dog training paradigm, you know, and I'm gonna like, wreck this dog when he does something wrong. And one day he came at me I remember thinking Hmm, this guy's gonna fight back have to do something different now at the same time this is back when I was you know, doing all these the seminars and workshops on this whole kind of positive reinforcement training. And I'm like, Alright, well let's let's use these new new for me techniques. And he just awesome. He was like, he went from stop hurting me. Like, what do you want boss guy? I like it, I tell us a little bit how that happens like just a little bit, so we can envision it. So what happens is, you know, you start with the dog, just giving them a reward for the most simplest thing, you know, I'm going to ask you to look at me, if you look at me, will mark that as something that's good, and I will give you a reward for it as nothing else have, you just look at me. And of course, go you know, and that ties into their natural desire to make a connection with you. So, so start there. And then when you start then asking more of them, like, give me a set or a down, or, you know, jump through a hoop, whatever. Now, they're, they're ready to do it. Because they know that if I show you how to do something, and you do it, you get a reward. They're ready for that now. And it's really simple, but it's not easy. Because yeah, I notice a lot of the stuff you tell me, it isn't simple to be consistent. And to be. Yeah, no, to really apply it. But there's a big payoff. Yeah. And the best one of the, one of my mentors, I remember, I was so blown away by her because she had no extraneous body movements when she worked with the dog. Wow, like if she was going to lower the dog position, that was the only thing moving on her. Right. And I had to work on that. Because, you know, Italian, were waving. And that's very, I mean, it's very confusing for a dog. Because if you're trying to communicate with a dog, and you're waving your arms all over the place, it's like, you've got crazy music on in the background. And, you know, and so you're trying to talk but or, or there's a cacophony, like, they can't figure out what you're trying to say. And, you know, she really told me that, I mean, she was amazing. And so and that, that is what I find a lot of times when I'm working with someone I have to work on, because they're not even aware that doing. Yeah, it's a special kind of thing. I mean, we don't have that awareness. So it sounds like you have to train the urine. The dogs. Yes. Yeah. And, and that's cool, because then they're happier with their dog. So it works. Well. Yeah. And because I'll tell you, when. And I go back to Roscoe, when we started work, actually working together, actually achieving things together. Both of us were so much happier, wasn't just him, it was me to mean it was falling in love that happens. There's like a trust and a fall in love. It's like, she's my buddy, you know. And trust is such a huge part of the human dog relationship. And like when you're working with a rescue dog or traumatized dog, building that trust. Again, very simple, but really not easy for primates. I mean, sometimes all it you can do is sit there. You talk to the dog, you don't look at the dog, you eat the dog, you touch the dog. And I know so many people that have such a hard time with that. I would have a hard time with that. I'm always touching dogs. Yeah. But you know, you just have to sit there and let the dog figure out that they can trust you. Yeah. And that's how you teach them that you don't teach them that by petting them because that's not necessarily pleasant. Right? They don't say you might not want that. Or especially hugs. Oh, no, obviously hug dogs. Well, the weird thing is greyhounds like hugs. A certain kind of. So that's just weird, right? They like to lean on you. And then they like to be hugged because it feels like they're leaning hounds in general. But you can't hold them too tight. That's what I noticed with our greyhound. I've always held them like I've always held them. Like, you can leave anytime you want. I can let you go. It's no problem. But um, yep. Yeah, it's so different. It's so true. Right now does not like he does not like hugs. Yeah. And people are like that, too. Yeah. My son in law does not like hugs. Yeah. He said the only person he likes to hug is my daughter. Like, we know that this is a thing in humans. But why not in dogs? Not every dog. I never thought about it. I was like, all dogs love to be coached by me. Yes. Yeah. Well, right. And you know, and believe me, I wish I had a dime for every time that happened to me where I'm working with a dog and a town and people come up and they're like, Can I pet him? Well, now he's training. Oh, but dogs love me. Alright, this has nothing to do with you. Do they really say that but dog all the time I get that I don't get the point. The point is not that dogs love you or don't love you. The point is I'm training him. Right and he is suffering, right? He's learning to be comfortable in this really scary environment. And coming into his face is not helping him at all. In fact, skirting Yeah, and yeah, the things that people think I remember a long time ago, we were at Ken nobles, which is like an outdoor amusement park in the woods, Sylvania. Yeah, here with Christie our standard poodle. Yes, of everybody. Right. And this little girl came up and before we could do anything, yeah, I grabbed Christie snout and pulled it towards her, kissed her. And I was having like a heart attack. Chrissy, you know, put up with it. And that's the kind of dog but I haven't put up with it as the price is it had a heart attack. I'm like, Oh my God, if she had done this with another dog, and she did it so fast, I couldn't do anything. Yeah. And, and I really and I've also noticed with horses too, because I, you know, I didn't have as much worse experience as you. But I did have horses growing up and I know not to touch them head on. Right. But so many people do that. Right? Okay, a lot of behaviors that you have to work on. It's about our eyes. I mean, it's their head on, that's what we are, we're head on. Right? And not all animals work that way. And so just understanding where they are. And that's what I always say I work for the dog is I also work with the humanists start where both of them are. I love that whole idea that it's deeper than just a few, you know, things that we know about dogs. It's a relationship. I mean, work on the relationship. Yeah, relationship is everything. Because you know, at the end of the day, and I mean, I say this as a trainer, I don't think it matters. If your dog can hold it down for 30 minutes. I think what matters is if you worked out way to live with your dog, right? So if you have a pug may not need the dog to know it down. No, now if you have, you know, a real leggy ground, maybe a down is a skill that they really need to know. You know, right. It's not a one size fits all it really isn't. And everybody's different. No. And so that's what I tried to do. I tried to make it work. And I do love that. And it also sounds like it's endlessly fascinating, because it's always different. Oh, it's always different. And yeah, you know, and because it's not just the dogs, it's the people and I get to meet a lot of really cool people. And you know, I mean, it's an it's, it's, we laugh a lot, because it's just so fun. And I do try to make it fun to I mean, I do make an effort to make it light and happy because it's supposed to be fun. And you're living with the dog is supposed to be fun. Yeah, it's not supposed to be a chore. Very good point, though. I mean, yeah, if you have a bliss dog. Sure. Maybe it's supposed to be a chore. But those people it's not, though because those people they both want to do the work, right. But But yeah, it's, uh, it's really important to me make that happen. Now, and so one dog at a time. I am super impressed how you made this, you know, like, well, you remind me my brother, you're like a 17 year overnight success? Yeah. It does take a while. It goes back more than that. Because I mean, even in grad school, I was like, I don't think I'm allowed to work for other people. Yeah, like, I sort of knew that. Yeah. You know, I was, I was like, I always say I was seduced by the pharma and the biotech world, because it was really interesting and, and creative, and really, kind of fun people. So that was it was easy to fall into. It was very, you launched from there. I mean, you got some stuff out of that, you know. And also, I think it helps you relate to some of your clients, because you were in that world, you know, yeah. Well, and that has a downside too, because I have, I think I've broken most of them of this. But at the beginning, people would call me and go, I don't just want a popsicle. What should I do? Okay, I'm not a vet. I can't, by law, I can't tell you what to do. It is illegal for me to practice veterinary medicine without a license. So see people not trust you so much. You know, well, yeah. And they know, well, you know, she worked in in animal science, so she knows it's like that way. But I mean, you are able to do extra things that regular pet sitters don't do. Yeah, like you can give injections and you can administer medicine. And sure, that's like an extra kind of cool set of things you can do. So how do people get in touch with you on social media? Or what's your website? Oh, okay. So on Facebook, it's a point of Petcare. And I have I do have a Instagram account, but I don't, don't really so let's just focus on the Facebook. I don't really, I am remiss in my Instagram, I need to do more there. So yeah, the Facebook is gonna pet care. And then you can text me or call me and I do have a point of pet care.com. Which is my website. Okay, any opponent is EPO in a correct? Yep. Yep. Well, is there anything else that you would like to share with people about how to be an entrepreneur, how it happens? Just spend the time before you leap to try to learn as much as you can about the thing you want to do. That's cool. The pre work isn't you spent time with SBA like you went to spy it. I remember that. Yeah. I went to the community college and they have volunteers and they have so many resources. There really are and I sat down with this woman who like they have specific I forget what the coaches I think they call them. They have specific people for your specific field. So right so I sat down, the SBA set me up with a woman Who does animal this is? Right? And so I sat down with her and talked about what I want to do and where I want to go with it. And like, everything from what I should charge to what kind of insurance I should get, like, they really help you out. What are the pitfalls, like that's the kind of thing. And then there are general business, they have classes that you could take, because I wasn't a business major. I never did any kind of counting or anything like that, you know. So there are things that are Yeah, the Small Business Administration does provide a lot of guidance. They're wonderful. Please look 20 years ago, they were you did. You didn't just leap in you tried to prepare? And I think that's a really good point. Yeah. You have well, right. Chance favors the prepared mind, right. I mean, I love that. Yeah. Fortune favors the bold. Yeah, yeah. But no, but to prepare, yeah, you gotta do your homework. How many people in your area are doing what you want to do? Yeah. Right. So if you want to start a business, I mean, let's say you want to open a coffee shop? How many coffee shops are around the place where you want to build a coffee shop? I mean, you know, maybe you don't want any right. You might be you might want to go somewhere else. Yeah. You know, so that's important. How many people in your area have dogs like I actually went to the county library and figured out how many dogs are there in Hunterdon. County? Like, what is my client base? And what do you want your client base to be? Do you want to take all comers didn't didn't want to take all comers. And I did that very early on. I did it one at a time. And then I realized I needed to put information on my website. Like, I did not want to use prawn collars and electric collars. You know, I'm not judging people, but I didn't want to do that. yourself is different, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's just me. So I would call people I remember this woman. She got had a four month old baby. And she know we she wanted daily dog walks and we went to the whole thing, you know, the braces, bla bla bla. And so then I always ask, so what equipment are you using on the dog right now? And she said, a prank caller said, Oh, I'm so sorry to have wasted your time. I don't use them. You'll have to call somebody else. No judgment just move along. Yeah, well, it was very important to her to get my buy in on what she was doing. Oh, like, I don't know why you need my approval. I don't feel the need to give it to you belong? Well, finally, I had to find someone to recommend to her because she wouldn't hang up the phone. She kept arguing with me. And she wouldn't give up the prong collar that amazes me. Yeah, she kept saying she kept trying to defend it. And I'm like, I'm too old to have spied this discussion with you. I know what I do. This isn't what I do. That's all this is about. It's not about you being right or wrong. It's just not what I do. And, boy, that was a tough sell. So like to be told that some people it's just personal, you know, they just their wall comes up. Right. And it's hard to deliver that information without the person feeling judged. Right? I mean, how else you know if you say even if you say to them? Well, that's not what I do. Well, why not? What's wrong with it? That's the that's the reflex judgment. Yeah. Well, what's wrong with it? It doesn't work for me. You know, and that is true. Like you need I mean, two things you need for prong collar to work. You need a lot of upper body strength, which I don't have. You need to be willing to hurt your dog. If you don't inflict pain, it won't work. That's why you see people being dragged down Main Street, a prawn collar, because they didn't pull it hard enough to make the dog yell. So philosophy. Yeah, I just want your philosophy. Right. But when you say to the person, well, are you willing to inflict pain on your dog that comes with automatic judgment? And it's like, well, no, it's just a fact. Yeah. I'm not judging you. I'm just telling you. That's how this works. Yeah. Oh, it's really funny. And incredibly, like when when we know so much more about something and someone else is trying to? Yeah, like all show you. It's just kind of crazy, right? Well, the internet is out. You thought it out? You know, your stance, right? Like something you can be swayed from somebody who's not an expert? Well, I know. But the internet has added a whole new dimension to that. Because you know, now that go to Google, when that tells them what to think. And if it contradicts what you said, then you're no longer an expert, and I don't care, I'm fine with that. I'm fine with that, then go to that person. There are plenty of people out there. You know, and that's another great thing too. If you don't resonate with me find someone you do. It's, you know, it's not a big deal. There's plenty of people doing similar work. And if you're not, you're not, yeah, I'm busy buddy, who is I'm a busy person, I'm real good with what I have. And it's not a reflection on me at all. If you don't want to hire me because he wanted, you know, use the services that I offer. It's sort of like if you go to a hair salon and person only shaves heads, you want a long haircut, then you go to somebody else, right? It's not that big of a deal. But for you It isn't because you've removed your ego from it. Well, probably Yeah. And you're just like, hey, you know, it's this way. I could talk to you for like nine hours. I learned stuff I didn't even know and I know you very well. That's funny. That was just really cool. Cool. Yeah. Excellent. Put your put your, your info in my show notes. Okay, episode. There's like a little show notes section. Awesome. You know, maybe we'll have you back with my brother. That'd be really kind of fun to have like a back and forth. But thank you for sharing. Christina was nello, you're welcome. Have a great day. You too. I'll talk to you