Episode 10: Ellen Martin shares how she went back to college with 3 kids at home! She ended up with a great tech career

Sat, 4/16 · 6:27 PM

25:34
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
retiredpeoplewomenfeltbell labsellenrememberkidshomemomshelpedcareeryearscollegemusiclynneworkjarringhiredmoved

SPEAKERS
Speaker 2 (57%),
Speaker 1 (41%)
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Speaker 1
0:25
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Hello, and welcome to another episode of The Storied Human. This is Lynne Thompson and today I'm really happy to have somebody I used to work with at AT and T and Lucent. Her name is Ellen Martin, and she's had a varied career over the span of her career in telecommunications. She's worked as a system admin developer. She's worked in customer support. As a systems engineer. That's when I knew her, and a systems architect, and most recently, she has been a scrum master. She has been retired for a few years now she lives in Arizona. And I wanted to catch up with her because I think her story is really inspiring. She entered the field, when it was pretty much male dominated, and she made her way. And I'm sure she has some tips and tricks to share with us about that. So welcome, Ellen. Hi, Lynn. How are you doing? Good. It's nice to have you here. So excited to be here. Good. So start us off at the beginning. How were you raised? What was your family like? And what I really like to ask people is what was the eight year old Ellen? Like, like, what did she like to do?
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Speaker 2
1:34
Oh, wow. Well, the eight year old Ellen thought she was going to be a concert pianist. Oh, wow. The piano was my passion. When I was a kid. I started playing when I was three years old. I was very, very young. And that was what I was going to do. I was going to be a concert pianist. I love that. Yeah. And my parents were wonderful. They bought me a piano. And I, I practiced and played and I went to first went to music school. My mom, I think I told you when my mom was a British war bride. And my mom and dad got married at the end of World War Two in my mother's village in northern England. And they moved over here to Illinois, and had four of us. And I wound up living in on Long Island in Virginia. And then went from Long Island to College up in upstate New York. And I majored in music the first time. Make sense? Yeah, that's what I was gonna do. I was gonna be a music major. How did that and then I met this neat guy who went to the engineering college across the river in Potsdam, and got married, and quit college.
1
Speaker 1
2:49
Because you started having kids early, right? Yeah, I
2:52
was very young. I had my first baby at 20. That's amazing.
1
Speaker 1
2:55
And you were ready. And you met cliff when you were like, 19? Yeah. Oh, to 1818. Oh, my God. Yeah. So you met your husband, you're 18. You dropped out of college. That's
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Speaker 2
3:08
suddenly the piano was not as fascinating as getting married to Cliff.
3:12
I love that. And you're still with Cliff? How long have you been married?
3:16
52 years in May?
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Speaker 1
3:18
I can't even believe it. That's so wonderful. So I guess it was a good decision.
3:23
I guess it worked out?
1
Speaker 1
3:25
It certainly did. It certainly did. So a couple things are occurring to me. One is that a lot of people who are good with computers are are musical. So you had that connection, you had that kind of brain?
2
Speaker 2
3:39
You know, that's one of the things that got me hired when I first went to interview with Bell Labs in 1982. One of the people asked me, Well, if you're a music major, what made you go into computers? And I said, Well, computers are very, like playing an instrument. You put the right thing in, and it comes out working. If you put the right thing into a piano, it comes out beautiful music for the right thing into a computer program. It comes out doing what you wanted to do. Yeah, so that's what I answered, and they hired.
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Speaker 1
4:17
I love that. But you seem to even as a young woman, you seem to understand like the structure of music and the structure of programming. Like there's a similar structure. And there's a logic like your brain works that way. And I'm so intrigued by that. I see that a lot in developers, and especially developers, I see programmers and music. I see that connection. So tell me about you said the first time you majored in music and we know that you you stopped for a while, right. And you had kids you married cliff and had children you had three kids. Right? Right.
2
Speaker 2
4:51
And my last after my last baby. I was at a group, you know, moms getting together in the afternoons with their children playing and having coffee and stuff. And one night after I went home to Clif took the kids home made dinner and all that I said to him, there's got to be something else besides sitting all afternoon and having coffee with moms and waiting for my kids to come home from school. And he said, Why would you think and then I said, I think I want to go back to college. And he said, Okay. He never said, you know, doing what he just said, Okay. And it was about that time that my brothers had gotten jobs at Bell Labs. They just graduated from college. They got jobs at Bell Labs in New Jersey, and started talking to me about, hey, why don't you try going into computers? So I got kind of interested. And I signed up that September, I stood that September 1981 1980, I signed up to go for computer science. And from the minute I started, I just thought it was great. It was like a big thing.
1
Speaker 1
6:03
It was a big match a good match for you. So wasn't that a time in 1980? There weren't a lot of women in those classes, right?
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Speaker 2
6:11
No, there weren't there was it was mostly. And remember, I was 30 years old at the time in 1980. And it was me and a whole bunch of 18 year old. In classes. I thought it was great. I was not interested in you know, the guy to over to seize over from me, I wasn't interested in their social life. I wasn't interested in anything. So graduating, they were super focused on being 30. and going to college was great. And it didn't bother me that it was mostly young men in the classroom. You know, I wound up being a teaching assistant there. Cool. Filling in and because one of the one of the computer science teachers was ill had gotten sick. And they asked me if I wouldn't mind being a teacher. And I said, Okay, so I taught and went to school at the same time. It was, it was really a fun time. I enjoyed it a lot. And when I graduated, I graduated at the top of my class. My brothers again, helped me out and took the resume to Bell Labs. And I got interviews down in New Jersey. And three places. And when I first when I flew in, and the first the limousine limousine picked me up and drove me to Home Depot for my first interview and I came over the hill. I don't know if you remember when he came over the hill them to Home Depot, and you're you see that giant building. I remember thinking I got to work here.
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Speaker 1
7:40
I remember it's, it was it really was impressive.
7:44
Yeah, it was very impressive.
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Speaker 1
7:46
I worked just a short time there. And I was like so in love with the building. And I remember walking with people. Well, first of all, let's explain it for people who've never seen it right. It's this giant building with this like dark glass or it looks like dark glass all around. And when you walk the perimeter, somebody told me it's a quarter mile, like it had like a walking club. And we would walk around the outside and it was a quarter mile. So it was it was super high tech looking and super modern. And you must have been so like, excited. Just you know, you're
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Speaker 2
8:18
very excited. And then you walk in the building. Lynn. Remember that huge atrium? Yes. It was huge for all the way to the top above top story. It was gorgeous. And it was all glassed in. It was it was huge. It was I remember being so impressed. Yeah. And the final thing was, the job that I took wasn't at Home Depot was in Whippany, which was another massive building. Yeah, I just, I actually I just wanted to work there from day one.
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Speaker 1
8:46
You were entering a world, right? A whole different world was remember how many? It was like a little city? Like they had a gift shop. And they had the chemistry? Yeah. And the bank and the dry cleaners. I mean, you could just like live there. Yes. It was amazing.
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Speaker 2
9:03
You could. So well, you could have a medical you could have if you get sick. Yeah, you could get sick. And then you could go and go down on the first floor. And they had this great big medical facility with doctors and everything. And they will give you antibiotics. It was great. It was a big city. So it was it was really quite something.
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Speaker 1
9:20
I remember being even like near I was at the ERC, which is an engineering research center near Hopewell, and I remember getting sick one day and I wasn't an employee, and they still took care of you. It was just so different than you know, you'd go to Lowe's, it was go to the doctor's office and they would give you something and they were they were great. So yeah, that's like a whole like a homey kind of different atmosphere that they used to have. So what year was that when they hired you? 1982 I
9:46
started in September 1982 at Whippany
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Speaker 1
9:49
so it only took you two years to get your degree.
2
Speaker 2
9:53
Yes, because I remember I started out and they they took a lot of credits from my from my music career. You know, those first two, those first two years in colleges, mostly liberal arts and stuff? Yeah. Yeah.
1
Speaker 1
10:09
That's so cool. So how did you handle the? Like, how old were your kids when you started in 1982?
2
Speaker 2
10:18
Okay, my young okay, we we first we moved to New Jersey. And my oldest was 12. And my youngest was four. Wow. Yeah. So we had, you know, I had the whole situation with finding daycare and all the rest of that. Yeah. But it was never easy. And it was not easy at all in those days. No. daycare facilities. So that's what I
1
Speaker 1
10:47
was going to ask about. How did you do that? How did you handle that? We
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Speaker 2
10:51
advertised looked around to churches and just looked for people. What I wanted was somebody to come into the house to babysit the kids because they were happiest then. But what really happened? We had a couple of years of start and stop with different people coming into the home to keep an eye on the kids. But my kids weren't happy. And then my younger brother moved right down the road from us. And his wife, Laura, there, the kids aunt Laura had just had a baby. And she said to me, so why don't you just have the kids come here? I will never forget that. That was it was so wonderful. Because we had family watching the kids. Two of them were in school and the youngest was was just about to start. But they would go there after school. And it was great. Base for everybody. A lot. It Yeah. You know how it is daycare was is not a simple thing. There's never an easy answer your kids. Yeah. That sounds like your kids is important. So good to hear. Yeah, that's
1
Speaker 1
11:56
that was like a stroke of luck that she she was like the timing of that. It was wonderful. Yeah. And then you didn't have to worry, because it just seems like as moms were either at work worrying, or at home worrying, or, you know, one side of our lives.
2
Speaker 2
12:12
Yeah. And if one of them got sick, she was wonderful, because she was just up the road from there through elementary school. So she would pick them up. It was it was a huge relief, a big, big load off your shoulders. So I highly sympathize with young moms these days, you know, work and in their kids and all that it wasn't a simple thing. And it still isn't a simple thing.
1
Speaker 1
12:36
I'm sad to say that it still isn't. I agree. So tell me what those first working days for like, I mean, I'm I'm thinking there weren't a lot of men around like, how did you? I mean, not a lot of women around you were probably just a couple of you, right?
2
Speaker 2
12:50
No, that was in Bell Labs. The labs in 1982 had more women in it than many, many companies that were very progressive. And they had a good mix of men and women. Good. So there was my group, the my boss was a male, but there was three or four ladies working with me. So and so it wasn't like I was in this totally male environment, Bell Labs, the the software area. In those days, there were more and more women coming in and getting jobs and getting work there. So that was a good thing. And that makes you feel more comfortable because it's much more of a mixed group. Instead of all men and me. No, I didn't encounter the old male stuff until I started getting involved with the regional telephone companies. The Arbonne Yeah. Oh, yeah. And when I would go out there and, you know, be doing customer support and stuff like that. That's when I found, hey, wow, most of the everybody in this room is male. And then there's me. And I would walk into the room, and they would, they'll all say, Okay, guys, clean it up Ellen's here. And make it better made me feel bad. Yeah, you know, they were all of them were mostly very great to me. So I didn't really encounter and on the old male culture until I went outside of Bell Labs. That's so cool.
14:23
So how many years did you work total? Total Am I right?
2
Speaker 2
14:30
Yeah. From 19. I read. I retired in 2005. Wow. But I both worked. I worked for Bell Labs then loosened and they forced retired, loosened forced retired a whole bunch of us in 2001. And then I had a year hiatus and then I went moved to Arizona thinking I was fully retired in 2001. And in 2004, I got a job again as a contractor at 18 T and felt like I came home
1
Speaker 1
15:00
That's so cool even out there, right? It's It was similar,
2
Speaker 2
15:03
right? Oh, definitely. It was definitely. Oh, I mean, I knew a lot of the people that I was working with in the old days. We have all had retired, but
1
Speaker 1
15:14
of course, there was a big shift in the telecom industry. Yeah. So did you get to work at home those last few years?
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Speaker 2
15:21
Yes. From 2004. No. 2005 until 2015. I worked at home exclusively. And no traveling. It was great. I loved it.
1
Speaker 1
15:34
That is great. I think that's such a fun way to finish up, you know, you're doing what you like, being at home, right? So it's not killing you. Because I work at home now. And it's like, night and day, I can do this. I can do my job. And it doesn't like, wear me out. Because I don't have the commute. I don't have the travel. And I don't have the worry about getting ready. And I don't have any of that. So you didn't really write. So you didn't really finish until 2015. Yeah,
2
Speaker 2
16:01
I had a few years. A few years hiatus in there. Yeah. I thought it was retired. But then
1
Speaker 1
16:07
you're like, we're not gonna go back to work. So you did work pretty late, like you did?
2
Speaker 2
16:14
You did a lot of years. Yeah. Did it now. Retirement was an adjustment. Yeah, at first because being a well, I don't know if this is a female thing. I remember my husband practically danced out of the out of the building the day he retired. He was so thrilled. He was, you know, really excited about being retired. He never looked back. But for me, it was an adjustment. I didn't really quite know what to do with me. Yeah. It was the same sort of adjustment that happened in 2001, when loosen force retired US, because all of a sudden, I didn't quite know who I was anymore. Yeah. Because my identity was totally wrapped up in working for Bell Labs, at&t loosened, the people that I worked with, were my social group. Yeah. So I felt a little bit rushed at first.
1
Speaker 1
17:12
Since two because you didn't choose it right? It was you had no time to prepare, and you didn't choose to leave. I think that's so jarring. You know, it's like it is okay, you're done. And you have like this whole social life. And this whole, like, I felt like you I was only with you guys for four years. And I felt like you guys were family. I'm still talking to you all these years later. And all these years later, there's like a bond, you know, so I totally get that you were adrift. You know, like,
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Speaker 2
17:42
at that point, that was when I decided I'm never going back. Little did I know.
17:51
The best legal plans, right?
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Speaker 2
17:53
Yes, the best laid plans. And it worked. It did work out the 10 years were great. I enjoyed it. And then when I retired the second time, it was also a bit jarring because that first Monday morning, you're like, Okay, now what do I do? Luckily, I have a very organized husband, who is a manager and a project manager in his career. And he makes lists and we have our days all set up. We're gonna do this on this day and this on this day. So that has helped me be retired.
1
Speaker 1
18:24
You know, that sounds great. He should, we should hire him out. People don't know what to do. So I think it's great. So I am looking at the coolest career I love. I love what you did with it. I love how you pivoted. I would like to know, do you have any advice for the younger women who are considering a career in tech?
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Speaker 2
18:51
I think definitely do it, definitely go into it, because you're never bored. But as far as advice is concerned, one of the things that helped me throughout my entire career was strong women who were willing to help me who were willing to mentor me, one of them being Teresa Weaver, who is the lady that you're going to be interviewing another one of the ladies you're going to be interviewing Yes. She was very open about I'll teach you everything I know. And help you out. So at Teresa was just the first one of those many women that helped me throughout my career. So when you go into it, make sure as as a make sure that you lend a helping hand to other people, not well, not just women. It shouldn't be just women. But that was one of the things that helped me through my career was the strong women that I had as role models. So make sure that you help others. I love
1
Speaker 1
19:54
that and you guys were like that with me. I always felt like I could lean on you guys and You're always so helpful, so generous with information. I got to include Sandi sang in that because she was always a big supporter of others and useful as she was, and, and what an environment, you know, because we have that sort of like stereotype about women and how we don't trust each other, and blah, blah, blah. That just wasn't evident to me. They're not there at all, it was just, and so that just takes like this pressure off, you don't have to worry about who's your friend or who's gonna stab you in the back. It's like you're a team, you're a team that's gonna help each other. And it's very pleasant. I remember just enjoying it so much, and I missed it when I left. That's a special place. And you're so right, a lot, a large part of why it was special was those women. And I think that's such a great thing to cultivate throughout your life is to find those kinds of women. And we can be sisters to each other. I never had sisters. So I'm always looking for sisters.
2
Speaker 2
20:57
Well, that, you know, that's a very good word to use. Because I do feel like we were sisters.
1
Speaker 1
21:03
I feel the same. It's not it's not like, I mean, I say, Oh, here's someone I used to work with. That's not it. Here's my friend. That's not really it. Here's someone I can count on no matter what. You're someone. You're someone I love. You know, yes, you're someone I love. And how lucky were we
2
Speaker 2
21:20
very, I felt like I was always very lucky. I working for Bell Labs, Lucent, at&t, I always felt like I was really lucky in the people that I worked with. And for, oh, you know, everybody runs into somebody in your, in your career that you're not real thrilled with. And they're not real thrilled with you. But for the most part, I felt like I had really good people that I worked with, even even at the end helping me get a contracting job when I went back into ATT and I was working remotely. Were women that I knew and saying, oh, no, you want to hire this person. So even then,
1
Speaker 1
21:57
yeah, when you got me that I could not buy a job. When I tried to get back into the corporate world, I had taken some time off. Because 2001 I had little babies that I just said, I'm not going to even try, you know, two dozen one was insane. So I'm not babies. But I had young, very young children. And I stayed home for five years. And then everybody's like, well, we don't even care what you did five years ago, you're, you have no experience that we're interested in. And you were the one that made that connection for me. That got me into Verizon. So even then you were helping. I mean, like from Arizona,
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Speaker 2
22:31
I still try to if somebody calls me up and says, Hey, can you give me a recommendation? I mean, they're getting fewer and farther between because now it's been over five years since I've left the workforce. But I still try to help people if they want it. Because I think it's important. I think you have lovely, you don't wind up with a network, unless you work it unless you help it. So true. And I think network is really
1
Speaker 1
22:54
important. You got to put it in, you got to get what you put in. Right, you get back what you put in. I just I love that. And as a benefit your as a beneficiary of your, of your kindness. I agree that it's it's a beautiful thing. Yeah, and I written I still talk about it, because you know, rich worked with us at Liberty corner, and we still talk about it, how much we miss it. And he got hired by Ericsson. And he said, it's almost like the old days, Lynn, you know, because it was the Swedish Telecom, and they used to be Telcordia Bellcore, or whatever they were. There is there's just a something about the culture, there's something about those people. And we always say how much we enjoyed working with, we always say we like working with nerds, which is what we all were, I guess that's where we're happiest is working with nerds. Exactly. Well, you know, I love your success story. But you're also about caring about people and connecting with people. And I just, I hope you feel good about your career, because it's so much about that too, which I love. And I think young women can can take heart that that's out there and that they can continue that. And I think if we offer that view of the world Yeah, I just I love this story. And I can't wait till we get us all back together. Oh, my goodness. The group interview is going to be a hoot.
24:24
It's going to be very interesting. Lynne
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Speaker 1
24:28
always was with us. All right. Thanks for your time, Ellen, and I'll talk to you soon we will talk to you soon. All right, take care.
24:37
Bye bye. Thank you. Bye bye now.
1
Speaker 1
24:42
And thank you for listening to the story of human and take care. And now enjoy a few more bars of my new intro and outro song written by my son Brendan Italian. I love that Brazilian feel. And I really like having his original music on my show, so enjoy
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