Are You A People Pleaser? Here's How To Quit

WEBVTT

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 I'm hoping that today's show will be everything you want it to be from me. That you enjoy

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 it and derive pleasure, and that you'll look forward to more. Why? Because I'm what's

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 known as a people pleaser. You know my type. I tend to put the needs of others over my

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 own, feel responsible for other people's emotions, and I'm constantly trying to

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 prove myself. Is that such a bad thing? I'm not sure yet, but I'm hoping by the

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 end of this episode I'll have found the answer with the help of a certain playwright who

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 shall remain named. I'm Dave Cohen and this is the Shakespeare Mindset, the show that

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 resolves modern day anxieties with solutions from the writer you hated at school.

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 Welcome to this week's episode of the Shakespeare Mindset. Today I'm going to

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 talk about people pleaser. Why we do it, why it's wrong, and why maybe occasionally

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 it's right. By the end of the episode I'm hoping to have found some sort of

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 balance between maintaining the loyalty, friendship and respect of our

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 fellow humans without compromising or sacrificing our own needs. I say hope.

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 I'm not offering a guarantee so if I fail to do it please don't hate me.

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 Furthermore I'd like to apologize in advance if I fail to avoid the curse

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 of every audio broadcast which is the letter P. Almost impossible to pronounce

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 on a podcast without distorting by popping. I tried to come up with an

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 alternative phrase to people pleasing but can't be done. I've always been a

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 people pleaser if you don't mind me saying. It describes my mum for sure

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 who I thought was taken advantage of by her own mum. I remember her saying

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 to me once if you ever see me behaving towards you like my mum does to me

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 then call me out on it. Don't let it happen. Which was a valuable lesson but

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 I'm not sure I applied it that well in my own life. I spent ten years as a

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 stand-up comedian desperately seeking the validation of a room full of

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 strangers. Years later I carried on being friends with people who I knew

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 weren't being nice to me but I felt like it will be wrong of me to stop

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 seeing them. People pleaser sounds like one of those phrases like FOMO and

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 PHOTOBOMB that were invented around the same time as the internet. Imagine

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 my surprise to discover that the origin of it dates back to 1579 and you'll

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 never guess who invented it. Yes it was Thomas North not Shakespeare. I'd

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 assumed it might be him too since he came up with a fair few of those

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 two-word phrases such as ICEBREAKER, SALAD DAYS, LIE LOW, NIGHT OWL and WILED GOOSE

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 CHASE which is three words I know but I do like to show off on his behalf.

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 Shakespeare read the work of North one of the few facts we know for sure

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 since he copied out large chunks of his translation of Plutarch's Roman

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 history and stuck them in Julius Caesar and Antony and Cleopatra and

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 that feels like a good starting point if we look at some of the typical

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 issues that cause problems for people pleasers. Number one, am I putting the

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 needs of others ahead of my own? Well yes Antony you are putting your love

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 of Cleopatra ahead of your duty to Rome. In the opening speech of the

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 play the messenger Philo says his captain's heart is become the bellows

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 and the fan to cool a gypsy's lust. Don't beat around the bush mate tell

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 us what you really think. Take but good notes Philo says to Demetrius and you

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 shall see in him the triple pillar of the world transformed into a strumpet's

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 fool. It's not just the messengers who are complaining. Enobarbus is

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 probably Antony's most loyal soldier. He understands the power Cleopatra

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 holds over Antony famously noting that age cannot wither her nor custom

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 stale her infinite variety and I know I like to use that quote a lot and it

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 always stuck with me when I was doing the play for A level and I suspect

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 through all those years of avoiding Shakespeare I never stopped loving that

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 line. But eventually even he understands that Antony's obsession with

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 Cleopatra is going to end with the sacrifice of political power in Rome.

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 Antony leaves Rome and his wife Octavia to rush back to Cleopatra. Cheer up love

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 strictly business I'll have the maidens pick up a bunch of flowers from the

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 chariot station. When Cleopatra feeling sorry for herself sends a false

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 message to Antony that she is dead he actually feels his own life isn't

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 worth living. Antony Mary Ann Walker life coach for recovering people

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 as would be sure to say in her weekly podcast stop for a moment and think

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 what your own death will achieve here. Antony should have listened to his

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 favorite stoic philosopher Poseidonius to rule is to serve your aim should

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 be moral excellence. By the way in case you think I'm an expert on stoicism

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 think again I'm just very good at asking Google Gemini questions so if

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 there are any actual proper Roman history experts listening to this please

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 drop me a line and let me know if I'm right to believe everything I read on

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 the internet. Number two do you like me as a person or for what I do? Let's

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 talk about Polonius. You may not know that name in Hamlet he's the

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 ninth most important character. I won't ruin your potential enjoyment of the

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 play if I tell you not only is he accidentally bumped off quite early in

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 the proceedings but unlike all the other deaths in Hamlet there are few

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 consequences and hardly any people who give a toss. In the early days of

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 this podcast before I'd reread the play I knew him only because he came

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 up with some of the most quoted lines from the English language.

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 Brevity is the soul of wit neither a borrower nor a lender be to thine

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 own self be true and my favorite give every man thy ear but few thy voice

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 take each man's censure but reserve thy judgment. Now forgive me for this

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 but I actually like all those quotes it's only when you get to understand

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 the story and Hamlet's torment that you start to see how Polonius is

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 basically a grade one servile backside licking fortune cookie spouting people

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 Personally I do believe we should give every man our ear but few our voice

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 listen more and don't respond in the moment which is a bit richer's advice

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 coming on a podcast. But Polonius well to take another famous quote there's

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 something rotten in the state of Denmark he knows exactly what but he's

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 clearly being paid to keep his mouth shut. When you see it like that every

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 tea towel aphorism and crack a barrel proverb turns him from philosopher to

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 pub ball. Perhaps if Polonius had been less of a people pleaser listened to his

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 own advice and to his own self been true he would have saved everyone a lot

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 of trouble. Number three am I avoiding a difficult conversation? I'm

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 guessing that you're not familiar with Tymon of Athens it's not the

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 most famous play in terms of regular performances it's probably Shakespeare's

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 37th most popular and it's not particularly deep there's like one plot

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 running through it. Tymon is rich and surrounded by flatterers and sycophants

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 he is the champion people pleaser the approval seekers and dominant

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 doormat he's the richest man in Richland and nothing gives him more

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 than giving it all away he does it because he thinks it will make people

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 like him more then he gets into debt and suddenly the sycophants disappear

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 and he loses everything and escapes to the woods where he lives in poverty

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 what do you know he's scrabbling around in the forest when suddenly he

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 strikes gold not one of Shakespeare's greatest plot twists I

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 although he probably blamed it on his co-writer Thomas Middleton and you won't

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 believe who comes back into his life yes it's those good old flatterers

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 along with a bunch of thieves yet again he gives it all away but he's no

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 longer doing it because he wants people to like him more he learned

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 from last time he had it that being too rich is more hassle than it's

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 worth I say learned he doesn't really learn anything he just goes from I

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 loved all humanity and sought their love by giving away all my wealth to I

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 have nothing but contempt for all humanity and I'm giving it all away

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 again because of the more money they have to destroy each other the quicker

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 we can get it all over with in case you think this play is nothing more

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 than a cynical dismissal of all humanity spare a thought for

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 Appomatus the lone voice that speaks truth to power who never took a penny

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 and who gently admonishes him towards the end for his newfound contempt for

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 humanity if you thought about this first time around thou should have

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 loved thyself better now there's no self-awareness for time and he avoids

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 the difficult conversation he needed to have with himself the first time he

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 loses everything he sees how he was being used for his wealth but he

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 doesn't understand that he needed to take some responsibility for this he's

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 no longer a people pleaser but worse he sees himself instead as a victim

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 King Lear is a more familiar tragic figure brought down by the false

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 people-pleasing flattery of his older daughters he's lucky enough to discover

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 the gift of self-awareness not quite lucky enough to escape the

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 inevitable end that comes to most rulers in the plays of Shakespeare

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 at first he finds it almost impossible to imagine when Kent explains to Lear

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 that the people who are refusing to allow him to maintain his own servants

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 and household are his daughter and son-in-law he refuses to believe it

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 they could not would not do it it is worse than murder to do upon respect

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 such violent outrage later in the same scene when Gonoril and Reagan and

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 their husbands refused to talk to him he still can't believe there's not a

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 valid reason maybe he's not well infirmity doth still neglect all office

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 where to our health is bound but no all that tosh he believed at the

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 start of the play where his older daughters were almost fighting each

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 other in the battle to explain who loved him best they weren't being

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 honest with doing it just to please him better when you're dealing with

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 the boss to tell them what they want to hear not what they need to hear

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 imagine something like that happening with a ruler in today's world thank

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 goodness we've learned so much since then forgive my sarcasm the last thing

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 this people pleaser wants to do is turn you away from the show but it does

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 make you wonder or at least me anyway what is it that turns us into

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 people pleasers where do we get it from there's a very easy answer to that

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 question that's almost always true where do we get our desire to people

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 please from mum and dad that's probably where we get most of what we

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 become give me the child until he is 7 and I will give you the man said

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 more than 2000 years ago or was it Saint Ignatius founder of the Jesuit order in

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 1541 don't ask me or Wikipedia for that matter they don't know either we

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 learn very early in our lives that certain socially acceptable behaviors

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 are rewarded better than others say please and thank you learn to dress

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 in a way that will win the approval of your peers don't speak out of turn

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 don't be rude don't be cheeky even though you're not even seven years old

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 yet and you have no idea what being rude or cheeky is some of you may have

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 grown up among parents who were unpredictable dads who came home from

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 work full of the day's frustrations and slights ready to take it out on

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 the people they're closest to maybe you struggled financially or your

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 parents had physical or mental health problems in those situations people

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 isn't just a lack of self-confidence it's an important coping mechanism and

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 survival depends on it we know almost nothing about Shakespeare's childhood

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 but we do know quite a lot about what it was like to be a playwright at the

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 end of the 16th century and Shakespeare was also a London-based

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 businessman he ran a troupe of theatrical performers and as he

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 became more successful took charge of an entire theatre any one of these

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 professions was capable of putting him at the mercy of the establishment who

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 set the rules of governance and with whom he was in regular contact he may

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 not have been a sycophantic flatterer in the polonius mold but he had to be

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 extremely careful to stay on the right side of the monarchs first Queen

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 Elizabeth the last Tudor leader and whose family had a well-earned

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 reputation for how can I put it letting the rest of the universe know

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 Shakespeare's fellow playwrights Ben Johnson learned the hard way by dint of

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 a prison sentence for insolence not to write plays that were too rude about

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 these people indeed in 1597 the curtain came down at the curtain

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 theater following its hosting of Johnson's seditious play the Isle of

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 Dogs a play deemed so shocking that every copy was burned and no record of

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 remains shame when James the first succeeded Elizabeth in 1603 the

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 playwrights of the day had a whole new set of rulers and laws to learn to

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 navigate Shakespeare's acting company the Lord Chamberlain's men swiftly

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 changed their name to the Kings men crawler was it the King's personal

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 decision as a fan of the theater to choose Shakespeare's troupe ahead of

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 competition as his own or was it Shakespeare seeking to win favor from

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 the new monarch by deliberately positioning his players as the King's

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 personal plaything the answer is we're not quite sure probably a bit of

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 both the plays that follow James's accession to the throne while not

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 exactly battling to win his favor in the way that gonerill and Reagan

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 manage do still provide a few clues that Shakespeare understood his company's

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 survival was partly dependent on staying the right side of James Macbeth

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 is a play that manages to deliver a cold unvarnished and brilliant

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 examination of power that's uncompromising while still ticking a

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 number of boxes for the new monarch James is interested in witchcraft tick

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 considers himself descended from the good guy in the play Banquo tick and

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 warns of the danger of messing with the theory of the divine right of Kings

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 where monarchs are supposed to be chosen by God funnily enough James was

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 pretty sure that this was the guy who had appointed him to the throne big

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 happy smiling people-pleasing tick for Shakespeare people-pleasing was a

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 why it can prove toxic as we grow older number four do you feel responsible for

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 other people's emotions you shouldn't but if you're in an unbalanced or

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 toxic relationship with someone you may find you're subconsciously doing

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 their bidding because you're scared what will happen if you don't stand

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 up for them there's a short but significant scene quite early in

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 Octavius Caesar is angry that while Anthony was away in Egypt his wife and

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 brother fought a war against him we don't know if Anthony wanted that war

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 and was only angry at his wife's move because she lost and died or if he

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 respected Octavius as he claimed Anthony in this scene is a bit like

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 the innocent claiming husband photographed by the paparazzi in a

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 Roman house of ill repute with lipstick smeared on his cheek and a pair of

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 ladies underpants dangling off his left ear what can I do to make it up to

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 you Caesar well now your wife's dead Anthony you could always marry my

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 sister why is he no Barbas Anthony's loyal soldier who speaks the truth

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 Anthony would rather not hear says sure you can borrow her love while

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 you're waiting to get back to Egypt shut up in a Barbas Anthony says okay

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 he replies that truth should be silence I had almost forgot another

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 wonderful line and why he is quite possibly my favorite Shakespeare

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 character of all in a Barbas understands Anthony is calculating that

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 in this exact moment it's more important he pleased Caesar than

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 don't worry Cleo I'll be back soon enough to please you in ways that are

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 also bound to please me too if you get my drift fnafna in this scene Anthony

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 is the child staying on the right side of the parent Caesar there aren't many

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 children in Shakespeare's plays and those that we see or hear of tend to

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 draw the short straw little Timmy you'll be playing young Lucius Titus

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 Andronicus's 11 year old grandson who will witness murder and dismemberment

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 while having to understand what his aunt Lavinia is trying to say now her

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 tongue has been cut out Billy you'll be playing King Richard's nephew

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 banished to the Tower of London and murdered there but don't worry I've

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 got a lovely part for you next week Macduff's son will be murdered on

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 Macbeth's orders no amount of people-pleasing is going to save

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 them but what about Shakespeare's most famous children Romeo and Juliet we

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 tend not to think of them as children although it's explicitly stated that

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 Juliet is 13 and while Romeo seems to be a little older we might be

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 over generous in suggesting that he's much more mature than a typical 15

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 year old boy getting horny for the first time Juliet was the perfect

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 daughter doing as she was told no doubt and probably a fine one for the

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 pleases and thank yous looking forward to being married off to

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 Paris who seems like a nice enough chap but maybe he gives her a taste

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 for boys named after European capitals and as soon as she claps eyes

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 on Romeo it's all change the scenes between Juliet and mum and dad

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 are almost comic

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 we don't see that level of foot stamping and pillow

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 punching in the Montague household but Romeo goes quiet and sullen and it's

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 clear that he's struggling not to disappoint his mum and dad we think of

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 this play very much from the point of view of the star-crossed lovers the

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 clue is in the title Dave it's not called Tybalt and Mercutio and will

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 probably have been a lot less popular if it had but maybe we should

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 spare a thought for the parents we teach kids to be nice and kind and

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 say please and thank you because those are the basics we need most of

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 time just to survive in that horrible world out there we don't want them to

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 grow up into backside-licking forelock tugging doormat but we also don't want

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 them to be outcasts in Juliet we see an almost instant switch from people

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 pleaser to strong-willed selfish individual and the tragedy is helped

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 along by a couple of enabling adults Friar Lawrence and Juliet's nurse who

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 really should have known better but were anxious themselves to please their

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 charges are the bonds of parenthood so powerful is the only way to stop

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 being a people pleaser to completely break with your past and while we may

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 not suffer the terrible fate of Juliet I'm sure we all know someone

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 who's broken painfully from the people who brought them into the world

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 and help them survive through childhood and into teenage years I think part

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 of the answer can be found by studying Shakespeare's most famous people

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 pleaser a man who'll do almost anything to avoid confrontation with the person

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 who dominates his life I'm talking about Coriolanus if you know the play

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 you might think I'm making a joke here Coriolanus is a soldier renowned

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 for his brute strength and masterful tactics on the battlefield this is

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 where he is an absolute charge and deeply respected by his soldiers once he

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 leaves the fight and is called on to govern the people of Rome he expects

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 exactly the same kind of subordination he's used to at war the play begins

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 with the peasants complaining that they're starving for lack of food

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 Coriolanus explains to them that the food in storage is required for his

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 army and how dare they even think about depriving those soldiers of

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 five items a day just because they happen to be dying for lack of

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 sustenance not you might think the actions of a people pleaser time and

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 again Coriolanus is gently persuaded by his consoles and senators to be a

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 little less brisk with the plebs if he wants to rule over them time and

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 again he fails only one person has power over him talks to him with

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 authority gives him a hard time has him cowering under the table like a

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 Widdowed early Volumnia raised her son to be a fierce warrior and boy doesn't

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 she like to remind you of it oh he's wounded I thank the gods for it she

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 says and in a line that could have come from a Sigmund Freud lecture if

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 he'd been around 300 years earlier thy valiantness was mine thou

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 suckst it from me like everyone else she urges Coriolanus to flatter the

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 plebs although even this is presented not as weakness but military strategy

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 you don't have to mean it she says adding that deceit is one more battle

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 tactic he can't quite help himself and is banished but when he returns to

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 conquer Rome and threatens to burn the whole place down he gives in to

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 her plea and saves the city he does this even as he knows this is likely

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 to cause his own death he puts the needs of his mother ahead of his own there

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 comes a point somewhere in our lives where we need to take responsibility for

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 our actions shame for Coriolanus that he lived hundreds of years before

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 Marcus Aurelius the first Roman Emperor to have a sideline in self-help and

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 wellness clinics Marcus would have told Coriolanus to check in on his

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 emotions when he found himself saying yes and to take note of the anxiety

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 guilt or fear in this case the wrath of mom he might have told Coriolanus to

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 pause before answering to say to his mum let me check my schedule and I'll

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 get back to you go on try it you'll be amazed I certainly was the first

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 time I did it and it gave me confidence to say no no need to

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 finally sit with the discomfort your mum's gonna be angry anyway Coriolanus

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 expect it heaven knows you've faced enough screaming warriors running at

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 you with a machete can her anger be any worse you reckon I don't my final

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 piece of advice which you never see in Marcus Aurelius or indeed his

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 Robinius you people pleaser are an expert at taking actions that make

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 others happy you're brilliant at people pleasing the best take what you know

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 that lifetime of skills you've learned and start to imagine using

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 them on yourself prioritize yourself just this once I'm sorry I can't drop

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 everything and give your mum a lift to the shops I'm listening to a brilliant

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 podcast that's changing my life forever meantime I'll be back next week until

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 then parting is such sweet sorrow