Ep 103 Revisited: Revisit: No Sugary Jesus (Dr. Dan Schneider)

James Caldwell: Hello all, welcome back to the Manly Catholic. This is James, your host. And before we start this episode, I just want to let you know that we are going to take a break for the summertime due to the craziness, the beautiful weather. But ⁓ we Jeff and I have decided to take a step back and just spend more time in family, focused on our time with our family and just recharging and being refreshed. But yeah, just wanna give you guys didn't want to leave you guys without any episodes. So we're gonna be playing replaying some of the more popular episodes that we've had ⁓ over the last five years. Can you believe we've been doing this podcast for five years. So thank you all so much for your support, your prayers. We really appreciate it. ⁓ yeah, I just wanna to keep the podcast rolling and we'll be coming back in the fall with some new interviews, new episodes and I can't wait to share that with you all then. Well until then, go out there and be a saint. This is the Manly Catholic, the podcast that calls you out of the shadows and into the fight. Here we forge men into warriors for Christ, husbands, fathers, and leaders who refuse to kneel to the modern world's lies. No more passivity, no more excuses, no more lukewarm faith. This is your battle crowd, your call to arms. The time for weakness is over. It's time to fight. Welcome to the Manly Catholic. Let's get to work. Hello all, welcome to another episode. Of the Manly Catholic. This is James, your host, and I'm very excited for this conversation here with Dr. Dan Schneiner. ⁓ the first time we talked with him, it was with Father Daum and myself, and we talked about his ⁓ new book, The Libra Cristo Method, which we will be touching on again here ⁓ in this interview that I had with him. It was just me interviewing him. And silly me, I ⁓ forgot to start the recording right when we got going. So you're gonna be jumping into ⁓ a bit of into the conversation. Context is ⁓ in the intro I mentioned we are speaking about ⁓ Jesus today, primarily ⁓ is our topic, but in particular the kind of misconceptions that our culture has had about Jesus, you know, he's all about mercy and ⁓ sort of this I don't want to say hippie Jesus, but kind of ⁓ a misconception of who Jesus really was. And Jesus was actually very radical, especially in how he perceives himself and what he calls us to do. He really calls us to live a transformative and radical life. And I think a lot of us miss that where, you know, again, the mercy is emphasized, but then often in his miracles he talks about, you know, go and sin no more, or your faith has saved you. So it it's ⁓ it's amount of ⁓ activity on our part. Obviously Jesus ⁓ is merciful, of course, and God's the only one that can provide that mercy, but we also have to do something on our part. So you'll hear Dan talk often about, you know, there's no sugary Jesus And then when he jumps in, he's talking about a passage in Mark 3, ⁓ when Jesus is ⁓ crowded around and he basically goes into ⁓ he was so because he was Jesus was such this radical figure, he literally changed the changed the world that so many people were crowding around him that he could hardly lift up ⁓ his his cup of coffee was his reference there. So just want to give you a little bit of context and background. ⁓ again, I messed up and did not hit the record button, but just again, that's the context going in as we jump in. I ⁓ thank you so much for listening. Please hit that subscribe button if you are watching on YouTube. ⁓ hit that subscribe button if you are listening to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and please help share the word. And before I keep rambling on, conversation with Dan Schneider. God bless. being accused by the by the by the Jewish leaders of pr driving out demons by the prince of these guys, the pagans. And it says that they were so cr they crowded him in so much he couldn't even eat, it says. I mean we we missed those, we just kind of glossed those over and go to the big stuff. He was so powerfully popular that he couldn't even grab his coffee and pick it up. That it they were packing in, wanting they were l l wanting to hear every single word, you know. And and and a a sugar and you know what I promise you, he didn't have perfect hair gel and he wasn't wearing skinny jeans, he didn't have the perfectly cropped beard. I mean, he was a manly guy. And he w and that masculinity drew people and he and and it what drew them most, I think, was his clarity. The his clarity, ⁓ and and speaking direct and forthright, ⁓ in a charitable way, but very direct and forthright. Yeah, and gosh, I mean there there's so much to just to the context of of the the time period that he lives in. I think often, especially now in in the twenty first century, we we forget about you know what happened two thousand years ago when Jesus was alive, you know, the time period, what was going on, the context, and you know, how radical his teachings were, you know, especially we mentioned ⁓ exorcisms that that you mentioned here. And I know you're writing a a follow-up book about ⁓ from the Libra Christo method, kind of diving more into that. But I I do want to touch on that a little bit because that especially Mark, Mark's gospel is the action pack gospel, you know. And he he talked I mean, I don't know how many exorcisms Jesus actually did. I don't know if you have a number on off the top of your head. But this was paramount to his ministry. And, you know, I think too people often mistake, well, you know, nowadays we know a lot of it is mental illness, which I mean clearly mental illness was around back then as well. But Jesus was the son of God, so I think he could identify the difference between a true possession versus, you know, a true mental mental illness. And, you know, what what often gets mistaken is when Jesus, because Jesus is is thought of like, you know, Jesus is love, you know, God's all about love. And of course he is, but whenever Jesus radically transformed somebody's life, whether it was healing a blind man or healing the woman who had the hemorrhaging for a number of years. He always followed the healing with go and sin no more. Go and sin no more. That was always his follow-up. Not to the Pharisees, to the priest, yeah. Right. And it there's always that follow up, and people seem to to forget that that part is that Jesus is all about love and mercy. And again, of course he is, but you know, he's also the God of the old testament, which I know a lot of people have problems with, is the God of the Old Testament, you know, the ultimate justice. And maybe we can dive into that a little bit too, that correlation, Dan, between God of the Old Testament and God of the New Testament, who's Jesus, obviously. And yes, he's that merciful figure, but he also ultimately is calling us to life of transformation, which a lot of us don't want to do because we're we're stuck in our comfort, we're stuck in our ways, especially, you know, both of us live in the United States. A lot of comforts here in the US, which we can just see with the crazinesses of our culture when we get too comfortable, are minds think, ⁓ we don't really need God. We don't really need this this figure from a long time ago where, ⁓ that's just kind of old tradition. And we don't need Jesus anymore. We're more sophisticated than that. Yeah, yeah. What's interesting is you mentioned this God of the Old Testament. There were two principal heresies around the Old Testament in the early church. You had Marcionism, the followers of Marcion, and and they were they they fell into the same error. This God of the Old Testament is c completely contrasted to the to the God of the New Testament. And so they allowed they took some of the gospels and some of the writings of Paul, but they dismissed the Old Testament completely. ⁓ because that that God, they couldn't reconcile that that with the with with what the teachings of Jesus. And then you had the Ebionites or the Judaizers that wanted to keep all the old rituals, ⁓ ceremonies, circumcision as other things. They couldn't they couldn't get into how ⁓ the transition from old into new, from from letter to spirit to spirit, from from from the earthly to the heavenly from the the the the sacramental they couldn't they couldn't bridge to make that make that make that step but if you look at that God's first self-revelation in the old testament he reveals himself ⁓ well of course as the I am right to Moses and then after the deliverance of of of the people of God through the Exodus and through the parting of the sea Moses writes a poem and he says God is a warrior Lord God Almighty is his name So the first title that he's pro that he proclaims is God is a warrior. This phrase, when you hear when you hear the Lord of hosts, the Lord God Almighty, those are those are translations of of this of the God of hosts, the of the heavenly host, the God who who directs and commands the heavenly armies and and the and and and and gives a ⁓ and and defeats the god the the cosmic enemies of the people of God. ⁓ and intervenes in in human history for his people, the God of hosts, the God of the armies, the the God Lord God Almighty. This phrase is this this title for God is used 185 times in the Old Testament. And and this the concept of a warrior God. And and it is, and then we again we get a picture of Jesus now from a lot of our homilies and and and popular media. ⁓ he's a nice guy, he's a sugary Jesus. Yeah, yeah. Then look to Revelation 19. Jesus is not sitting there on on, you know, he's not sitting at a bus stop with a little latte and a perfectly groomed beard and in, you know, and it's smelling like like hair gel, perfectly groomed, you know what I mean? He's sitting on on top of war horse. And the war horse, you know, the i i the imagery from the old testament, from job and other places, the battle horse, right? The war horse that that that grunts. In anticipation of going into battle, Jesus is sitting on that, a sword comes out of his mouth. The warrior God comes back in judgment. So we we've lost sight of that. and so and so part of that is is you know, ⁓ you asked a question about how much exorcism is in the New Testament. Father is Father Ripper has noted ⁓ it's up to twenty twenty twenty-five percent, twenty-four percent, about a quarter of the gospels ⁓ focus on this. If you look at the Gospels, the Gospel themselves, especially in Mark's Gospel, if if you had an actor that played the Gospel of Mark, the Jesus Gospel of Mark, it would it would have to be like the old Clint Eastwood. Jesus is a gunslinger in Mark's gospel. Well, I love Mark's gospel. I mean, I did five years, six years of research on the Gospel of John, which is fantastic. But then I've now gone into Mark for this present manuscript I'm working on, and the Jesus of Mark that is presented by Mark is just This is a very matter of fact masculine Jesus. And so he w he starts off his ministry in Mark chapter one doing three things, and this pattern repeats itself ⁓ throughout Mark. He does it, and then he sends his disciples out to do these three things, and then he commissions his disciples to go into the world to do these three things. These three things are known as the tria munra, the threefold office of the priesthood. And that is the the the what's called the munus docende, the munus ⁓ sanctificande, and the munus regendi. Those are Latin phrases that mean the the the a munus is a is a duty, a responsibility, an obligation, an office. Technically it's an office, but it's also responsibility. It's something that the priesthood, this these are ⁓ three marks or duties of the of the holy priesthood. And Jesus bestows on them. First he does it himself, and then he goes out and sends the apostles out. And and what is that? And Jesus goes out his very first day of Mark's Gospel. He teaches, he heals. And then he drives out demons. So so the the the the the the ministry of teaching the mint that belongs properly to the local bishop. The ministry of healing we see and that healing, ironically, the word that when Jesus healed the all the sick, the word for sick oftentimes ⁓ sometimes it could be mental sickness, ⁓ s ⁓ sp spiritual sickness, vice, as well as physical sickness. In fact, the word to save and to heal is often synonymous in the New Testament. And Jesus saved them and Jesus healed them. And and then finally the the the the the ministry or the office of ruling regende. This is where exorcism comes in. This is falls into the juridical authority of the priest, the local priest. And this is this is how ⁓ Jesus sets out. He teaches, he heals, and he rules. And part of that ruling is ruling as as the Lord God Almighty, as as God the warrior who rules over the cosmic realm, ⁓ as a as as a warrior, as a as as a the leader of battle, who directs. the heavenly host beneath him to intercede and to help us in our own struggles. Now going back to men, we we in a way we share in that, not in the same way at all, not not even close in essence or degree, it says in the council. Does our priesthood, is our priesthood, our priesthood is distinct from the the the the universal priesthood of the baptized is distinct from the sacerdotal priesthood of of of the of the ordained, but we we also share in that in our homes. Men need to see themselves as teacher, right? As healer, and as as king or ruler ⁓ in the home, not not at the parish level, not not not going out and and holding prayer sessions in the basement of the church, in your home, militating in these three threefold fashion. ⁓ that's very important for us to understand as men. But Jesus does this primarily and and then part of the Jesus who rules is is that title of God. Two phrases. The Lord God Almighty, the second phrase, the jealous God. I am a jealous God. The jealous God who who who commands fidelity. Fidelity on behalf of his people. Yeah, Dan, that's fascinating. I mean, we so often we we get caught up with, you know, like the I think we talked about last time we we we got together was, you know, like the Andrew Tates, the Jordan Petersons, who have good things in mind for men, but it misses the fullness of what it means to be a man. So that you know they're about discipline and and taking care of yourself in order and things like which is fantastic. But again, it there there's a step beyond that. And that's exactly what Jesus brings out or should bring out of us. Exactly what you said, the threefold mission of every man is to I wrote it down is is to teach, to heal and to drive out demons. You know, and I think a lot of times too, men think, ⁓ like education, that's No, that's the mom's job or that's the wife's job. Like, no, absolutely not. Like you are the head of the household. It is your responsibility to make sure what is being taught, whether it's in the home or even outside the home, is to make sure what is being taught ⁓ is in line with church teaching. And then, you know, again, as we talk about, we are the tip of the spear when it comes to spiritual warfare in our own family. So if we're not taking care of of ourselves, then what do you think Satan and his demons are gonna do? It's like, ⁓ this this family's vulnerable. And he's gonna get in, he's gonna divide, and he's gonna try to conquer us. Cause I mean, his goal is to get us to hell and every single part of our family. Because if he can get us away from the church, away from Jesus, then it's so much easier to go after the wife and the children because they are relying on us. And if we're not doing our duty, as you mentioned, then we're failing in our role as as men. Thank you all so much for listening to the episode. 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Again, that's Mystic Monk Coffee.com. It's coffee made for your soul. Now, thank you for listening and let's dive back into that episode. And I I do wanna talk about sin ⁓ as well and and what that actually does to us. And I I don't know if we really dove into it last time we met, but you know, I think we often compare ourselves to I don't know, the the worldly sinners, so to speak, like the public sinners, if you will. It's like, well, at least I'm not murdering someone, or hey, at least I'm not cheating on my wife. And again, that's another radical teaching of Jesus as well, was he he He goes way deeper than that and he really challenges us. Like, no, if you commit adultery in your heart, then it's the same as actually committing the act of adultery. And he talks about that frequently about sin. So can we talk about, and I'll kick this back to you, what does sin actually do to us, maybe even just physically, but also, you know, if we dive into the difference between venial and mortal sin, what mortal sin actually does to our soul as well? Yeah, before we get into the sin, I wanna because because it ⁓ the sins of the father, right? We you know, ⁓ they affect the children. They're going all the way back to Exodus and and ⁓ I will curse to the third and fourth generation, right? Due to the sins of the father, to those who hate me. So there's there is a relationship between the sin that enters into the family through the sins of the father. And why is that? If you look at Father Rippiger's when you look at Dominion, ⁓ And he's talking about what the phenomenon of generational curse is. We probably shouldn't sidebar into that today, but that falls under the the general topic of authority, interestingly, contextualized. This is where he contextualizes it. Because the authority structure, ⁓ the authority structure is ⁓ as you alluded to earlier, ⁓ as ⁓ you know, it it it it isn't based on merit, it isn't based on good looks, it isn't based upon ⁓ how well you can defend whether Jesus had brothers and sisters or not. It has nothing to do with that. The authority structure is it is set and is embedded into the natural law, right? And also the divine positive law that the church ⁓ that builds upon natural law. And part of the authority structure is is men are head of households. This is very unpopular today because we live in a very highly ⁓ radical feminist culture, even the culture that's infiltrated the church in many ways. And so understanding the authority structure is Now, when people talk about spiritual combat, and and sometimes when parishes I'll talk about Ephesians chapter six and what's embedded in into Ephesians six, and our weapons are, you know, ⁓ not again we fight battle not against flesh and blood, etc. But Paul sets the stage for Ephesians six with Ephesians chapter five. ⁓ I think it's Ephesians five twenty-eight. Hus you know, wives, obey your husbands or be subordinate to your husbands in all things. Right. And so the the this is like very unpopular in the modern parish today. But if you look what that word means, he's getting ready to go into military militaristic language describing the uniform of the Roman legionnaire that that would be occupying the town, the city of Ephesus, and the uniforms that they would wear. And these would be the guys that are walking the streets, keeping order, okay? The uniforms, put on the entire armor of God, and describes the shield, the the the the sword, the et cetera. And and he spiritualizes them in a midrashic way, if you will, and he explains what they mean in spiritual combat. But even before he gets to that, he uses another military term here in Ephesians 5. Be o be o be ⁓ be subordinate to. That word ⁓ obey is to be literally means to be ordered under. The Greek word ⁓ upotasso, the Latin would be sub ⁓ ordinatio, right? To be ordered under. And literally it's a military term that means to be under the protection of, under the provision of, embedded into that word the twofold ends of the authority structure. If if you are are in authority, whether as a priest or as a layman, of head of household, or even on the authority, even by natural law and in your work environment or your your business that you own, you have a twofold obligation within the office, right, of head of household. Remember it's office. It's a munus, it's an office. And the twofold ends of that are to provide and to prov protect. And so and so it's as if the the the f you know, God has given the husband and father a shield and a sword spiritually. And his job is to take his wife and his children and place them behind that. ⁓ behind him, holds up his shield, holds up his his gladius, his sword, and he defends in the spiritual realm. And he he's the first to engage the enemy. He's the first to recognize. He's the first to teach. He's the first to protect. This is the role. This is this is all that that is embedded into that word. It's a militaristic term. And so what the when when you so the connection with sin is. And the way the way the the way the Romans would work, he Paul describes the the the the the sword, the gladius, but before they would break out the gladius, the first thing they would do is throw the the pila, P-I-L-A Pila. The pila was about a it was about eleven or twelve feet long ⁓ spear and it had it had a heavy metal tip. And then it had a heavy tip on the bac a small little tip on the backside that was metal so that when it when they they could pick it up in the battlefield and use it as a as a just an improvised weapon. In between these two halves, it was held together with a wooden shaft, a a wooden a wooden bolt. So that bolt was meant to sever. And they would throw this this spear out, this pilah, and the enemy would would have to hold their shield up and it would penetrate into the shield, right? Because you have wooden shields back then. It would penetrate into the wooden shield, and then that wouldn't, that wouldn't screw would snap and it would hang there. So you had about 11 pounds hanging there, hanging off your shield. And you and you had to make a decision. Do I drop my shield and fight without a shield? Or do I use my right hand to hold my shield up and fight with and fight defensively without a sword? And so he knocks, he he basically effectively minimizes your battle capacity. And then he comes in with the sword. And the enemy still does that. The enemy comes in and he hammers us with the with the with the first round, the volley, if you will, of to lower our shields. And so men need to keep that shield raised up because the target isn't the target isn't you per se. The target is first the marriage. If he can divide the marriage and separate you from your wife, then he can go after the children. Because the children ultimately the target. So the the so and how does he divide the husband and wife? What is the the pila? ⁓ what is the what what does it look like? He begins to separate you. First, getting you to stop praying together. Even the minor little ways of just saying grace together, praying the rosary together, ⁓ you know, praying, praying the angelist together. Praying together is very important. It doesn't have to be anything mystical and kung fu-y and exciting. Very simple vocal prayers together. And then he starts to change and whittle away at our perceptions of each other. And once he starts those two, that's sort of his tactics. And once he can divide the husband and the wife, she's now no longer under his. Direct protection. She's now outside of his shield, and so the children are as well. And so that that's why sin is important because when you commit a sin, particularly a sin of head as a head of household, when you're looking at pornography as a man, ⁓ you've taken your sword and your shield, you've laid them aside, you've preoccupied yourself with this immoral behavior, and now that you've been neutralized, the pilah has now taken down your shield and your family who are who are who are by natural law under your protection are no longer protected. Yeah, I just th the military, I mean, you can't help but look at, you know, the the terms of the military in in relation to this fight that we're in, especially as men. You know, and just like with the Pila, like you said, and and and and transitioning that into the spiritual combat, spiritual warfare, what Satan is always trying to do, and I I think I ⁓ referred to it earlier, is he w just wants to divide and conquer us. And I know you talked about this last time too, the importance of order, ⁓ especially as men. as heads of how as the head of the household is if your life is not in order. Like you said, if you're looking at pornography, if you're, you know, just watching sports or scrolling social media all day long, you're not you're not diving into the spiritual life. You're not ⁓ expanding on your your spiritual life and your relationship with Jesus, then you're failing in your role as a man, in your duty and your obligation as a man, because everything we have is from God. And he put us Whatever your dynamic is, whatever your situation is with your whether you're married, you're not married, whatever the case might be, Jesus put you in that situation for a reason. And you are here at this time and the place, whenever you're listening to this, whatever situation you're currently in right now, Jesus will provide the resources to either get out of it or to improve upon or whatever the case might be. But the again, it goes back to what Jesus always tells. The people that he heals is is go and sin no more. But you have to put forth the effort to change whatever the case might be. Whatever you're in, whatever you're struggling with, you have to put forth the effort. I know when we had to reschedule last time, Dan, and I I called you because there was a lot going on in my life. And you know, you you gave me good advice. You're like, hey man, you gotta embrace the suck. And I know we talked about that last time, is you know, because sometimes it you get in your own head. And that's why I love, you know, chatting with you is that like, hey man, you just you just gotta embrace the suck because there is virtue that comes from it. And this isn't forever. We always go through consolation and desolation, and it's that roller coaster. And whatever you're in desolation is bare down, grit it out, because there's there's going to be tremendous power and grace that comes at the tail end of it. But you gotta you gotta suck it up. Yeah. And you gotta embrace it because What else can you do as a man? This is the fight that we're in, and we're never gonna be in this perfect world until we get to heaven, Lord willing. Yeah, what's what's interesting, you mentioned you mentioned Jordan Peterson, he's got a brilliant mind. I think he's moving his way towards Catholicism. ⁓ for sure. Because he's too smart because you know, Flannery O'Connor said that Catholicism is filled the Catholic churches are filled with freaks and geeks, you know? And and ⁓ and so and so it it attracts the geek, you know. The free by freaks she means, you know The marginalized, the poor, the, you know, ⁓ but it also attracts these brilliant minds like Jordan Peterson. And he's talking what if we could translate what he's talking about, making your bed, the order and discipline, these are w what we would call natural remedies of combat. These are very important that that, you know, most guys say, ⁓ man, I want to be a green beret. I want to be Ranger, you know, I want to be a ⁓ you know, special ops guy, I want the tab and all these things. But all those guys have mastered the basic skills first. before they go. And then and the go to the next level from basic soldiering to special operations, the battle is right here. The battle is in your head. ⁓ a a friend of mine was a he's a retired ⁓ Green Beret colonel and a a Marine was going through the Q course and he kept asking every phase he would the Q the Q course is the qualification course for the Green Berets. And they asked him, he kept asking this Marine kept saying, okay, after this phase, what do I do? After this phase, what do I do? How do I get through this phase? I think the guy never made it the guy ended up never making it all the way through. ⁓ and my buddy says, Look, if you want to make it through through the Special Forces Q course, here's here's what you need to do. Keep your head down, keep your mouth shut, and keep walking. And and that's great advice for men. Just keep your head down, keep your mouth shut, and keep walking. Because it you know, there it's gonna come and the the battle's gonna come, and then you're gonna have a law, and then there's gonna be peace, and then there's gonna be a lot of fun. And then it's gonna rain, and then it's gonna be muddy, and then it's gonna be nasty, and then they're gonna be trying to kill you again, and then you're gonna be shooting back. You know, and it's just but so you just you just get through it, you just keep your head down, keep your mouth shut, and keep walking. And what does that mean? Going back to Jordan Peterson, the natural remedies means you have to impose order in your life. That that here's what we found in our protocol. This is this is this is what we found discovered over the years, that the enemy responds to the imposition of order as much as to the prayers themselves. The whole idea of the Pila is to disrupt the ranks, the orders of the enemy, is to break his ranks. Because once the once the rank breaks, then the heavy infantry would move in. ⁓ the the Roman legionnaire would move in in an extremely ordered way, not moving. You know, which was made ⁓ from You you're in Italy where the where where there's good wine, right? It was made out of a vine, a venea. It was it was so it was made out of a out of a vine branch, so it could bend like this and not snap. And so if any of me broke ranks, the centurion would would would would bash them in the back in the bare part of the back of the legs. Stay in the ranks. Stay in order, because order is absolutely i important to the way the Romans fought. And this is why they could defeat far larger ar enemies. And if we know that, we fight an ancient enemy and and There's certain battle ⁓ corollaries between combat, spirit physical combat and spiritual combat. That order is very important. You know, I when I was a kid, like many, like many people in my generation, we loved Hulk Hogan, right? I was a Hulk Amazon. He was fantastic. And he would always say to young people, listen, kids, you know, and by the way, the rest of us today, they'd couldn't light a candle to to the old guys, you know. Hulk and and and Ric Flair and Dusty Rhodes and these guys were giants. So this is what Hulk Hogan said. If you want to be a Hulk omaniac, eat your vitamins, ⁓ exercise, do your workout every day and say your prayers. You know? And and so and so there really is a certain amount of truth to that. We we tend to want to say, I need that special weapon, that special prayer, that secret prayer so I can launch this thing like Iron Man shoots a little missile out of his thing and walks away and goes home and has a has a cocktail. That's not true combat. True combat is a grind. It's a grind. Sometimes, yeah, sometimes you you blow up an enemy depot spot and you head back to the officers club. But other times it's trench warfare. And oftentimes when you're when when when guys find themselves in a battle, understand that yeah, spiritual combat takes on the it it it is mirrored. It somehow mirrors natural combat and sometimes natural combat is trench warfare and you just gotta grind it out. You just gotta grind it out. Isn't Hulk Hogan isn't he a pretty strong Christian? I think you saw him. Yeah, I think I saw him on the Joe ⁓ maybe it was just a clip on the Joe Rogan podcast and I saw ⁓ he spoke about I think he invited Joe Rogan to church. I think. But it's a little stuck in Jesse told me that one time he ran into into Hulk on ⁓ on an airplane and he was wearing this big huge crucifix and he's ⁓ and he said, Hey man, nice crucifix. So I don't think he's fully Catholic, but I think he's I think he's he's on his way. He's on his way. Yeah. Yeah but I do I do want to mention because ⁓ we s we brought up ⁓ Jordan Pearson a couple times, the importance of order, but the importance of discipline too, and I've been listening to ⁓ I I'm sure you've heard of Jocko Willink, who was ⁓ a a US Navy SEAL. I mean, he's all about discipline equals freedom. ⁓ that's that's kind of his motto. And you know, looking at the gospels, you see how disciplined Jesus was as well. 'Cause what did he do before he even entered public ministry? Is he went into the desert for forty days for fasting and for prayer? What is he always called to do? He mentioned to the god to his disciples where he said, You know, they try to drive out a demon, ⁓ I forget which gospel, but they couldn't. And they said, Hey, Jesus, why couldn't we drive him out? He has some demons that y are only driven out by prayer and fasting. And you know, he recognized too the importance of secluding himself to sort of recharge. ⁓ it's 'cause certain parts he said, you know, ⁓ disciples go aha go on ahead of me. I'm gonna go to the mountains and pray, or I'm just gonna go and pray. And he said that multiple times in the gospels. And the discipline that he had, ⁓ because recognizing as a human, the weaknesses that we have, ⁓ especially weaknesses of the flesh, and the importance of that discipline, I mentioned Jocko Willink as well, and they're all about no matter what you do, is you need to exercise because everything else in your life will get better. Your your business, your your your career, your just your your health obviously as well. But just correlating back that back to Jesus is how much discipline that he had and the importance of that too. Because like you said, Dan, is sometimes it's gonna be, you know, you you shoot a missile and it blows up and you can go back and it's it's one and done. It's super quick. But most of the time it is that trench warfare. And if you think about trench warfare, especially like the World War One, I remember reading All Quiet on the Western Front and it was, you know, it was just back and forth. You know, like you gained ten feet and then you you lost five feet and then you gained two feet and then you lost six feet. You know, it's just back and forth, and that's that's gonna happen in the spiritual battle as well, because it is that grind because we are human and we do become tired and fatigued, and it's recognizing and and and instituting that discipline that we need every single day in order to defeat the missiles that are constantly being fired at us about the demons and and Satan himself. Well, Saint Paul uses the analogy in Ephesians six that put up faith as a shield. And so we often think of yeah, to to to to ⁓ to to s to quench the smoldering arrows of the enemy, right? These arrows that are on fire. You talk about about an analogy for impure thoughts, the enemy's just firing fiery arrows at us, you know, cover dipped in pitch and lit little light to to to try to burn our shield down, right? But part of the the the the the way the Romans use the shield was it had a it had a boss on the front in the middle of the shield, a big steel ball with a spike. And so the shield wasn't just a defensive measure. You know, help me Jesus, help me Jesus, help Jesus, help me Jesus. You know what I mean? The shield was an offensive weapon as well. But before they the Pila came first and then the infantry moved in. Okay. The infantry moved in after the in the infantry moves in ⁓ and once they engaged, they didn't start slashing like like like like the Gauls and and and the the the Germans and others, ⁓ they would they would first, that line would come up heavy, strong, disciplined, and they would pound into the enemy with the shield and knock them off their feet to lower their shield. And then they would come in with the with the the gladius and start slicing and cutting and wounding and then just moving on like a buzzsaw. So so that that keeping that shield up and and if Paul says it's a it's a weapon of faith, how do we use it not just defensively But offensively. How do we use our that offensively? Jesus shows us. It's called mental prayer. It's called Lexio Divina. So, so men have to start to learn how to pray, right? ⁓ there's three types of prayer basically in Catholic tradition. ⁓ you have vocal prayer, which is, you know, we've got the deliverance prayers for use by the laity. My book, I've used a lot of those, those ⁓ in the Libra Cristo manual, I've you know, we've brought those but those prayers over. How to pray those prayers at what time. That's very important. But then mental prayer, ⁓ you know, sometimes it's called meditation, but mental prayer, ⁓ it's using the mind in a cr in and using the imagination, meditating upon the words of scripture, slow reading. When Jesus was tempted by the devil, and the devil throws scripture at him, Jesus throws scripture right back. You should not put the Lord God to your test. You're not, you know, man doesn't live by bread alone. These are classic temptations against us that all men are going to face, right? We face this is kind of a pattern Jesus is showing us. This is how the demon's going to tempt you, the world, the flesh, the devil, and this is how we counter back through scripture, by reading scripture, meditating on the life of scripture. This is why meditation, reading, slow reading, daily reading of scripture is extremely important because it starts to reorder our interior selves ⁓ to be able to do com because combat takes place right here. It it's it it it takes place in in the faculties and in in in the mind. And so getting the mind disciplined and through a prayer a life ordered prayer, not just praying a couple secret prayers, right? It doesn't work that way. You gotta get the mind you got, you know, you gotta get your dirt out of the warden's hole, right? You gotta get your mind right. So that how do you get your mind right through prayer. St. Catherine of Sienna, doctor of the church, says this everybody should pray at least 30 minutes a day, unless you're busy. And she said, ⁓ and then you should pray for an hour. So and so what does that look like? Vocal prayers, prayers for your family, stringing down concertina wire, laying laying the perimeter. ⁓ in the in the in the in my book, I I use the analogy of the wire. The wire is the that would string together claymore mines, and those mines became the protective perimeter. You gotta lay those down for your own interiority, but also laying them down for your family. Perimeters, prayers of protection, ⁓ perimeter prayers. ⁓ other prayers that you should pray every day to protect your family. That's vocal prayer. But then also moving into mental prayer. ⁓ learning that the the tradition of the the Western tradition on prayer is very important. Reading about the lives of the same Saint Teresa, we just celebrated John of the cross yesterday. How do we do mental prayer? It's something we we have to do. And one last thing learning what G the words of Jesus when when the the disciples couldn't drive the demon out ⁓ of the boy that was possessed, ⁓ and Jesus drives him out and they ask him, Why couldn't we do it? And Jesus says, This type only comes out through prayer and fasting. So it isn't just this intellectual thing that I'm doing I'm battling sword fight with my brain and my thoughts and my intellect, because you'll lose. You're you're dealing with a creature, an apex predator that that is that has a an intellect that is far superior Far, far exceedingly superior to yours. Even the lowest demon of the lowest intellect is a hundred times more intelligent than you and I. So you're not going to battle him here. But how do we do that? We do it with what Saint ⁓ Faustina says, the envy of the angels, right? If the angels could envy us, if they were capable of envy, she said, they would envy us for two things. One is that we can receive holy communion, that we can bodily receive our God. That should tell us something. Right. That we should we should we should receive God every day if possible in the Holy Eucharist. We should stop and have a Eucharistic ⁓ a a touch every single day, go into adoration, even in 15 minutes, ⁓ to pray the rosary before the blessed sacrament. And then also the the second thing they would envy is our ability to suffer. So if you're bat if you're doing battle in your home, it's not just gonna be I need to come up with a special prayer. It's also engaging with your body, engaging with fasting, right? ⁓ I've I've heard that in session, the demon will will call the team members out and say, None of you guys are fasting. I'm not going anywhere. So Yeah. And this is consistent with with ⁓ a new book ⁓ that Tanja put out on an exorcism from ⁓ I think it was about a generation ago from the fifties, and the demon said, I'm not going anywhere because your bishop doesn't fast. So so and fasting takes more than just the lack of food. It's engaging with our bodies. You can fast from hot water, you can fast from Sweet little creamer. So you turn your morning coffee into milkshake, right? You can fast from coffee. You can fast from a lot of things. It's engaging with the body while we can, using our bodies as as weapons of righteousness, if you will. And so that that's part of that's part of the order of prayer as well. It's ⁓ being able to make small little sacrifices for your family. That's a dimensionality of warfare that nobody nobody it's kind of lost, right? But we we need to recap recapture that. Dan, can you hold up your deliverance book one more time? Yeah. Look at that. Look at that tatter. ⁓ no, the the ⁓ the deliverance prayers. Look at that. That is a well used book, my friend. For those of you who are just listening, it is just torn to pieces basically because it's used so much. So it's ⁓ it's a well used book. It it's got some holsterware, if you will. It's been it's been it's been taken down range and used in in unhol in righteous anger. So yeah. Yeah. Again, it's a secret. You just it's just it's a grind, you know? It's just a grind. You know, like we used to have phrases in the military, welcome to the sock. You just you know, welcome to the sock. The suck is the combat zone. It's the discomfort of ⁓ of combat, the discomfort of food, the discomfort of sleeping on the ground, the discomfort of of people on the other side that want to do really bad things to you, you know. ⁓ but it's but it's ⁓ it but but but but the second phrase is embrace it, embrace the suck. That means you grab onto it. You Yeah, it's okay. I love it here. I wish it would suck more. I love it here. It's great, you know? And so I think I mentioned that cartoon that was in all the flight, you know, and all the all the all the flight the flight line everywhere I was stationed 'cause I was a pilot, you know. Yeah. And it shows it shows an army grunt ⁓ in the rain up to his waist and mud and it and the first caption, it just shows this basic soldier and says it sucks out here. Right. The next picture is is Ranger. He's got his, you know, he's got his ranger booney cap. He's he's all he's all rangered out, tricked out. He says, ⁓ it sucks out here. I love it when it sucks out here. And then it goes to the the Green Beret tiger stripe paint on his, you know, ⁓ camo ⁓ boony cap geared up, standing in the same mud, same rain. It sucks out here. I love it when it sucks out here. I wish it would suck more. Right. And then the next one shows a ⁓ Cobra pilot inside the perfectly airtight canopy and it says, Man, it looks like it really sucks out there. So, so yeah, you it nobody likes it. It would be inhuman to want this, you know. But the Rangers and the SF guys, they get it. The airborne guys, ⁓ they get it. ⁓ the paratroopers. I you know, I also went to Ar you know, paratrooper school and they taught us this. How far are we gonna go all the way? Well, because we don't know. You know, when when the army sets out and says, Look, we're gonna do a three mile run or five mile run. You can put it into your head that yeah, I can do this. I can run five miles. And the minute you go more than five miles, you'll start watching guys drop. Because they put it in their head, I'll go five miles but no more. And so the airborne motto is how far? All the way. You go all as far as you have to go. So if you're if you're in a a a firefight in your home over your marriage, your children or whatever, don't just think, ⁓ man, all I gotta do is if I can just grind this out for six months and do these set prayers. th then I'm good because once those six months ends and I d and I've seen this training fighters. I can drop this guy in in two rounds. Well what happens if he makes it through the second? It's like, man, I guess I I I might as well quit. You gotta prepare to go the distance. How long it takes, however long it takes. And that's just part of the the the the the the the grind of of combat. And part of that i is not complaining because suddenly when you're complaining you have more to complain about. You know it you know when you're complaining about the about How horrible it is over here. You fight. You remember, we remember that I put this in my book, ⁓ the quote from Chesterton. The true soldier fights not because he hates what's in front of him, because he loves, but because he loves what's standing behind him. And so you have to engage combat, not because I hate what the enemy's doing to my family, I hate the embarrassment it brings to me, I hate that he's messing with my marriage or whatever. You do it because you love your family. You do it out of love for them. And so if you if you're struggling with pornography, Quit because you love your family. Not because you and and don't let the enemy draw you into hating him. But out of love for out of love and obligation, do you do you overcome these vices that are afflicting you? Hello everyone. My name is Father Dominic Katiri with the Manly Catholic podcast, and I'd like to take a moment with you just to talk about something that's dear to my heart. Harmel Academy of the Trades here in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Harmel Academy started in 2018. Where I came on board. And now we're entering our 2024-2025 year with just close to 30 guys from all over the country. Harmel Academy of the Trades is a Catholic trade school dedicated towards building these men towards Jesus Christ with prayer, work, and study. It's a one-year program and a two-year program where we teach these men not only how to fit, sit at the feet of the master of Jesus Christ, who is the epitome of what it means to be a man and a worker, but They get to work in a variety of trades. They live together on campus. They work together on campus. They take humanities curriculums together. And if you're interested, please check out our website, harmelacademy.org, and discover more about this wonderful academy. And may God bless you. Yeah, and I know we mentioned your book a couple times. I'm just gonna post it up here. So it's the Libra Crystal Method, a field manual for spiritual combat. And you did mention too. Dan, ⁓ a little bit ago, you know, Lectiodevina. And for some of our listeners, this might be the first time they're hearing that term. Do you mind just briefly explaining and walking through like what is Lectio Divina? Yeah, Lectio is a Benedictine concept. Here's my my morning coffee as I just love it. Hope there's no cream in that, Dan. There's no cream, man. You know, there's no that was pure black grinds. Yeah, that was it. That was army coffee. Chew it on the beans. That's it. No, I just yeah. Yeah. Actually at Ranger School we would ⁓ And I think about this sometimes when I get when I feel a little soft, you know, when I'm feeling like, ⁓ man, I need a little more time in bed. I need a little more, you know, h hot water in the shower. At Ranger at Army Ranger School, we would just to get through you didn't have you didn't even st there were times we would go days without stopping. No sleep, no st no stopping. You just walk for I remember walking for five days straight, literally walking for five days straight, no sleep. And ⁓ and so you would get little little coffee pockets about this big and you would just you know, throw the dry powder in and then the your canteen is filled with river water, you wash it down with river water, and then don't waste the grounds. Take the grounds and stick them into the corner of your eyes to keep your eyes open. You know, now if I can do that, if I can do that for for the for the a worldly king and a worldly why can I not do that and have that level of sacrifice for Jesus Christ, the King of King and Lord of Lords, the Lord God Almighty, God the warrior, right? And our lady, the warrior queen. Making those little sacrifices. Soldiers do this. You wanna be an SF guy? That's the stuff you gotta be willing to do that. You know, you gotta be willing you gotta be willing to do whatever it takes to win your battle as long as it takes. So the same thing in the family. So what was the question again? Sorry, I got I got ⁓ No, that's all right. Lectio Divina. Do you mind explaining that a little bit for those of you? Yeah. So Lectio Divina, ⁓ Lectio mean Lectio Divina means divine or sacred holy readings, and it's a four phase process. ⁓ ⁓ Lexio ⁓ Meditatio Oratio Contemplatio. Those are the four phases. It's so prayer, I mean read, meditate, pray, contemplate. So it's a slow reading. It isn't this speed reading, you're gonna read a chapter a day, you know. No, you're gonna read a scripture and you're gonna hammer down one short little segment and you're gonna really just read and meditate, read on it and then start meditating, placing yourself there and or start making connections. You know, how where else is this word mentioned in scripture? Where else of this so you start linking together, you know, ⁓ the ancient principle from the rabbis and St. Augustine fleshes it out further. Scripture's the best interpreter of scripture. So you don't need to have all these commentaries. What you need is to keep scripture open and where else have this word been used? What's going on? Where is he when he's saying this? Place yourself at the scene. You're starting to use your mind in engaging with the imagination. ⁓ on on turning up every rock, slow reading, and then praying, right? Read, meditate, pray, and contemplate. So then you start into start praying and you start applying this to you. and so the three elements of mental prayer, and Lexiodivane is a type of mental prayer, is consideration, application, resolution, car, right? You consider the mystery. What are you studying? What are you reading? What what's the story? What's happening here? ⁓ applied. How does this apply to me? Right? How does this apply to me? And then resolution. ⁓ what am I going to do about it? So, so you're going into the mysteries, you're reading scripture, you, this is how it applies ⁓ to me. This is like, wow, yeah, yeah, you know, ⁓ the wedding feast at Cana, the the whatever, whatever you're meditating on. And then what am I gonna do about it? It it's not enough just to say, that's cool. I uncovered some pretty cool stuff. Yeah, that that applies today. And maybe I'll write an article for that or do a podcast for that. No. What is how is this going to change me? And then contemplatio contemplation is it's and then you and then at times, very rarely, okay, God begins to kind of drive the bus for a while and he begins to to to you begin to sit in his presence, just be silent before him. So the idea is to begin by doing the grunt work and then some of the mental work. of of meditating on the passage, connecting it through prayer. Lord, there's no more wine. I'm out. I've got no more wine. I got no wine of charity. I got no wine to defend myself against these assaults, ⁓ these temptations. I'm completely empty. The stone the stone jars are are empty and they're and they're and and they're cracking and they're leaking. Help me, Lord. You know, and you cry out to God and then Make resolution and you trust that God's going to do that, that God's going to fill it up. I trust you, Lord. I trust you, Lord. So that's the four steps. ⁓ Pope Benedict in his book Verbendomini added a fifth, and that is action, axio. And it isn't like, let's go out and be social justice warriors, right? You know, ⁓ it's action. What am I gonna do about it? How's this gonna change my life? Right? How's it gonna change me? Am I gonna be kinder? To my wife and to my children, not just kind of. Am I going to be present to them? Am I going to truly listen to my wife when she speaks? Right. Am I going to be too preoccupied about all the obligations and responsibilities that I've had throughout today? Am I going to shut down and put a time clock in a visible time clock in my kitchen? And when I get home from work, punch in and go to work, roll up your sleeves, right? Help, help around the house, be present to your family. Right. This is this is the commitment of action, you know. And if God calls you to do other things in the apostolate, so be it. But that axial first and foremost is a is a spiritual action. What how is this going to apply to me? And how's how what what am I going to put into place to to make to to to actualize the fruit of what I've just read in Holy Scripture? Yeah, for those of you l of you listening, there's tons of resources out there as well. And I'll put a couple in the show notes just so you guys can look it up. If you know, 'cause there's I know there's ⁓ websites they'll give you passages kind of start off with, especially the more like prominent ones where it's easy to kind of insert yourself into the scene or to meditate on. So I'll put some resources in there for you. And then I want well we in our protocol ⁓ that that for the first phase, the prayer discipline, and you can look it up on we've got it ⁓ on the app store. It's a 30-day discipline, not not unlike ⁓ Exodus 90. In fact it's a lot easier than Exodus 90. And guys that do Exodus 90, come back transformed because they're learning how to they're learning how to engage with their bodies. Because again, if you're just going to try to do mental judo, you're talking about a judoko far superior than you'll ever be. You'll never be at the level to compete with this guy here, this this diabolic judoko, but you can beat him with your body. And so so so the first 30 days is is a is a is a it's a mental ⁓ it also has a mental component, not just praying 612 and 6, the Angelus and a couple other prayers. but also pulling back from social media, as good as this podcast is and other things. ⁓ you're pulling back for 30 days and all you're going to do is read the scriptures. You know, we I tell people you can read anything you want so long as it's today's mass readings. And you're going to focus, you're going to plug into the liturgical calendar, because it's through the liturgy that church catechizes. The primary instrument of catechesis is liturgy, right? Catechesis, the cateo means to sound down, to echo downward, right? And so and so that and so we when we put our ear into the tradition of the church, l liturgical tradition, it echoes back through liturgy. And this is how we God catechizes us. So learning to do, even if you're just going to do the daily mass readings, pick them up and do that as your as your lexio, as your as your 15 minutes of quiet prayer, reading about those, and it'll begin to interconnect. God will begin to speak to us through scripture. He he talks to us through repetition. And I'm not talking about mystical revelations and ⁓ I'm gonna have this ⁓ no I'm not talking about all that fancy stuff, man. We're talking about just reading scripture and go and God going, dude, knock that off. Dude, you need to live your life a little bit. Stop living like a pagan. Stop, stop, stop pretending that you're you know, how long are you gonna straddle the fence, ⁓ Israel? If God is God, follow him. If not, if Baal is God, follow him, says Elijah. You know, God is constantly calling us to that, to the words of like the words of Elijah. If God is God, follow him. Don't act like it doesn't matter. And so that that's what I'm talking about, those little little socks to the eye, you know, little little love taps, you know. Doesn't quite draw blood, but it kind of hurts a little bit. Doesn't leave a mark. Yeah. That's what prayer, that's what God is in his gentleness. Sometimes, sometimes he gives you a shot, you know? Because you got he's gotta learn. You've got to learn. He he wants you to survive this combat. You and those he's entrusted into your care. Yes, I guess for my final question for you, Dan, what is maybe the biggest misconception about Jesus or the biggest takeaway that especially men can take away from Jesus' example here on earth that maybe the culture has sort of yeah sugarcoated or it can maybe completely taken away from his character itself. Yeah, you know, St. Paul tells us in Hebrews that he was like us in all things but sin. So Jesus, sometimes we can picture Jesus So completely other that we can't identify with him. He called guys just like us, knuckleheads, you know what I mean? Guys that would argue and disagree with stuff, you know, the apostles. He was a regular man's man. He was a carpenter. He worked with his hands. You know, he was a manly guy. ⁓ but he also was demanding, you know, if you wish to be my disciple, three things. Deny yourself daily, pick up your cross daily, and follow me daily. We are conformed as men specifically. We are conformed to Christ into into that to pick up our cross, to deny ourselves, pick up our cross and and follow him specifically through our vocational sacrament. And so and so so ⁓ this idea, and then we get it, you know, we hear it all over the all over the place in church and Jesus is ⁓ again the sugary Jesus, the nice guy Jesus, who's kind of like Alan Alda from MASH, he's a super nice guy and he doesn't offend. ⁓ read the book of Revelation, you know. I am the same yesterday, today, and forever. The same God that fed water from the rock, the same warrior God, Lord God Almighty, Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today, and forever. Then the rock was Christ, St. Paul says in 1 Corinthians 10. So enter and trust and follow the life of Christ. Go into that. Don't just understand Christ as a concept, but truly begin to pray and engage him in prayer. Lord, come help me. I'm getting my butt kicked down here. You know, help me out. Pray to him like you talk. Talk to him like a man, right? Not not like a concept. Because he is a man, fully God, fully man, right? And so, and so live like he lived, right? And which means he lived for others. Because we look we are we like to look at Ephesians six, Ephesians five, women's obey your women obey your husbands. And I always we we hear that at mass, we give a little nudge. But the second half of that, St. Paul says, husbands love your wives as Christ loved the church. handing himself over. The word he uses agape. We hear all about love, love, love. This is what agape means. It means sacrifice, sacrificial love. This is a love unique to Christianity, a love unique to Jesus Christ. A sacrificial love. Love knows ⁓ the no greater love than this to lay down one's life for one's friend. So St. Paul says in Ephesians 5, lay down your lives. As Christ died for the church, you die for your wife. That's the Jesus that I follow. That's the that's how we We militate. That's how we are warriors in defending our home, but willing to die for our our wives and our children. That's what St. Paul is calling us to. It's a lot easier for for the call of the woman is a lot easier than the call of the man. We're called to die. We're called to die to ourselves completely. And it's hard. It goes against our very nature. And and so Christ, though, transforms our nature so that we can now enter into that sacrificial posture or willing to offer up our sufferings for for our families. Well, thank you, Dan, as always, for your time. That call to action for men. Again, if you want to check out Dan's book from Tan Books, the Libra Crystal Method, I'll put a link in the show notes and ⁓ also a little coupon code for you guys. You can get discount off and also help support the podcast. But Dan, before I let you go, I would be remiss to say, ⁓ go blue ⁓ as they beat your beloved buckeyes. ⁓ I know I appreciate the the the the time of ⁓ you had to you the time of mourning, you honored that. And I and and ⁓ but what happened to Florida State and and they got bumped, you have to you have to even as a Buckeye fan, I have to say it I'll probably make some enemies here, but I think I have to I have to root for Michigan over Alabama in this bowl game. You gotta get you know well say what you want about Harbaugh, he's a pro life guy and he's able to beat the Buckeye's not even on the sidelines. So you gotta give him props for that and ⁓ and I and I and ⁓ I appreciate what Jim Harbaugh does as a Catholic man living his faith. Not afraid, you know. I appreciate that. Well, you know, I I was actually talking to my my family too, and it's like, you know what, I don't think it's ironic or a coincidence that ⁓ after he gave this big, you know, pro life talk and I think in the summertime or before the football season starts, all of a sudden all this stuff is starting to come out. Like I don't think that's ⁓ I don't think that's a coincidence that like all of a sudden let's go after Michigan. So Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they gotta find they got a really fine football team this year. So they've been really progressing and so yeah, I I I hope they beat Alabama. And the Irish we have ⁓ Oregon State, so I I I think the Irish are gonna do okay. We'll see. You never know. But we're we're we're entering into bullseas, which is always fun. I appreciate you not not harassing me too much and you respected the time of mourning ⁓ after the after the loss ⁓ to the school of north and ⁓ but yeah, so I I but I appreciate it and and that but it's good. It's good. But see he he's a good witness so when men need not be afraid to speak their mind. Hundred percent. Yeah. Well Dan, thank you again for your time. Thank you all so much for listening. Until next time, go out there and be a saint. Thank you all so much for tuning in to another episode of The Manly Catholic. If you have not already done so, please hit that subscribe button wherever you get your podcast to make sure you don't miss a single episode. It will also help grow the show and reach as many men as possible. We truly think this podcast can change families and help men to change the world. Thank you again so much for tuning in and God bless you.