Beyond the Badge

Caleb: Welcome back to the Human Element Podcast. I'm your host, Caleb. Today's conversation is a little different because we're introducing someone who is not only joining the show as our new producer, but will also be sitting alongside me as a co-host on our new upcoming show, the Non-Human Element Paranormal Podcast. Kyle Weiss brings more than a decade of law enforcement experience, a successful career in real estate, and a life experience, life experiences that have taken him well beyond the badge. During his time in law enforcement, Kyle experienced some of the realities of the profession. That people rarely get to see firsthand, including officer involved shootings and the serious injury of one of his fellow officers. Those experiences are part of his story, but they don't define everything about who he is. Today we're going to talk about where he came from, what led him into law enforcement, the challenges of that career, how he transitioned from that, and his recent travels to Europe and what brought him here to the human element studios. Kyle, welcome to the show, man.

 

Kyle: Thanks for having me.

 

Caleb: Let's go ahead and start at the beginning, man. Where'd you grow up?

 

Kyle: I grew up Jefferson County, Missouri.

 

Caleb: Great place.

 

Kyle: South of St. Louis, yeah. I'm sure you're pretty familiar with it.

 

Caleb: Great place, great place. what was your childhood like, man? Do you got brothers, sisters?

 

Kyle: One brother, one sister, and I had a great childhood. It was a very middle class, you know, Midwest childhood. We'd go outside and play until the street lights came on and you know, have to come home. But it was very safe. It was it's the way you'd want to grow up, I feel like.

 

Caleb: Without cell phones? Street lights.

 

Kyle: Yeah, no cell phones, no technology. No, I remember as a kid we they would our parents would give us spoons in the garden hose and we'd have to go out in the garden and dig little trenches and funnel the water through it. Like that was our entertainment. Yeah, with spoons. You know. We didn't have tablets

 

Caleb: With spoons God, dude. That's

 

Kyle: and all this modern technology stuff. So we had to you know, ride our bikes around town and be normal kids.

 

Caleb: It's like drill sergeant stuff, man. Give you a pair of scissors and go cut the grass.

 

Kyle: Yeah, it was kinda like that. It's like here, go occupy yourselves.

 

Caleb: so growing up, going to school, kind of what led you I mean, you went into law. What did you do before you became a cop?

 

Kyle: so really I've always been in law enforcement. there really was no prior I did, you know, I'd worked some when I was sixteen years old, I worked in a movie theater and things like that. But I'd always known that law enforcement was my ultimate career choice. so I joined the police academy at nineteen years old. So

 

Caleb: Yeah, right. In Missouri you can't be licensed till twenty one, correct?

 

Kyle: Yeah. So I went through the police academy, graduated twenty years old and then had to wait an additional six months to take my post test to become a certified police officer.

 

Caleb: All right. What where did you get hired on at first?

 

Kyle: out of the academy I got hired on for the at the Saint Genevieve Police Department.

 

Caleb: Okay. I guess let me back up a little bit. What what drew you to law enforcement?

 

Kyle: so like I said, I I had always known that I wanted to go into law enforcement and be a cop. And that was driven from my dad. He was a cop back in the 70s, early 80s. so every Saturday we would watch cops on TV. And so growing up, you know, we'd always sit around and watch cops. And during the commercial breaks, he would tell me all of his war stories back from whenever he was a cop. So from a little boy, I always knew that it was the coolest thing ever, and that's what I was gonna do when I grew up.

 

Caleb: know that about your dad. Where was he a cop at? What area?

 

Kyle: so he was actually at Hillsborough in Crystal City.

 

Caleb: Okay. Do you recall the first day of being a cop?

 

Kyle: I do actually. Yeah, 'cause it was a

 

Caleb: sounds like there's a good story to this one.

 

Kyle: I don't I don't know that it's a good story. I didn't have the greatest field training officer. So I had built this up in my head of how things were gonna go and you know, you're gonna get out there and find all the bad guys and take everybody to jail and instead I got to the station and watched my field training officer cruise dating websites for two hours. So it was

 

Caleb: And what what year was this? Like early mid two thousands, I guess?

 

Kyle: been two thousand eleven, two thousand twelve, somewhere in there.

 

Caleb: Two thousand eleven. He's just checking out dating websites. That's sounds about right.

 

Kyle: Yeah, so that was kind of the the wake up call. St. Jin's not a super busy town by any means, very low crime rate. So it's a good place to learn, but not a good place if you're looking for the non stop crime and action.

 

Caleb: Right. and I know from there, I mean I c we don't really have to call out the cities that we work for, I guess, to protect some of the stories that might come up. But I know you also work for how many other departments? 'Cause Yeah,

 

Kyle: two other municipal agencies.

 

Caleb: 'cause you left Saint Jen, went to a couple of other places. And then when you came back, that's when we met. For those listening, that's where we met. That's where we worked together for many years. what do you think the biggest misconception that you had about being a cop? Besides watching someone scroll their dating websites.

 

Kyle: Biggest misconception.

 

Caleb: Maybe the board like not realizing the the downtime maybe that it that you have in between those certain calls.

 

Kyle: I would say and we can touch on this later, but I'd say the biggest misconception is I didn't realize how much it changes you as a person. I just thought it was more of a job, you know, and you go out there and you catch bad guys and you go home and there's so much more to it. It's like an onion with so many different layers that I didn't

 

Caleb: For sure.

 

Kyle: I didn't really understand that when I was a kid. watching cops on T V and thinking that's what I wanted to be. I didn't really realize what that actually meant. So

 

Caleb: Mm. And I know that we've hit on it before, like comparing like the military and law enforcement, you know, how they both cause those mental issues or mental burdens that you can have. But, you know, law enforcement's just this this gradual overtime consistent, you know. I guess what am I you know, the it it n it never shuts down. Like it's always a constant as long as you're in that career.

 

Kyle: It's kinda like death by a thousand cuts. It it just it's very slow and evolving. in the military, which I've never experienced, but you know, I know that military is typically four and eight year tours and it's just a lot all at once. You're getting dropped in the Middle East in an active war zone. So you're dealing with all of those stressors all at once. But law enforcement, it's it's a career length of peaks and valleys as far as as that goes. So You may have days where you do absolutely nothing and you have no calls. And then you may have another shift where it's nonstop adrenaline rush after adrenaline rush. And then you may have a mix of both where one day you're helping, you know, some old lady that fell on the floor and next thing you're getting into a vehicle pursuit. So it's just it's such a range of emotions that you go through every single day.

 

Caleb: Yeah. I'm trying to think back to our time together of some funny stuff that we would have dealt with, which I'm sure there's countless, but it's so hard to remember right off the top of my head. I think a lot of my next question was kinda like, what is something about the job that people outside of law enforcement don't fully understand? And I'll go I'll I'll go I'll say my piece first with it, and I think it's outside of the mental health aspect of it because I think people are starting to realize that that's a problem. It's not fully, you know, known by the wider public, but it's become it's it's come into light a little bit more. But I think a lot of people don't understand that it also is that job and not only do you deal with that, you also have to deal with the the job side of it, the administration side of it. You know, you still have people you work for and that you have to appease as well outside of appeasing the public that you're serving. So yeah. That's my like I I think that people don't fully understand that aspect of it because, you know, we catch a lot of heat on the street for things that we do, but it's also well, we don't really have a choice in some of the things we do.

 

Kyle: Yeah, that's one hundred percent accurate. I'd say I don't think that people easily see past the uniform and see that we're human beings as well. They kind of clump us together as we're the big bad police just out to get which isn't true. we try to handle situations on a human level and connect with people on a human level to effectively help them to get through whatever they're going through at that moment. So that's something that was always a barrier that I had to break down during every interaction, whether it be a routine traffic stop or a domestic violence situation where I was, you know, talking to the victim and trying to explain to them that I was there to help and give them resources and things like that. So I think talking to people and getting through that that barrier of the uniform was always something that That I don't think that people really realize.

 

Caleb: Yeah, that's the thing is, you know, you deal with these a lot of people that are, you know, in their worst moments. When we're seeing they're not it's not usually their best day. most of the time when we meet people it's usually their worst moments and that's what they remember. And then, you know, we kinda become the punching bag sometimes of that, which you know, rightfully so. Like I get it when people are upset, you know, that that happens. Guess so after all you know, your time and I know there's one incident and you can talk about it vaguely if you want to, or if you don't want to talk about it, that's completely up to you. but I think you know which one I'm referring to, the one prior to the last one. Which would have been why you were working in Jefferson County at one point. So I don't know if you want to hit on that. It's totally up to you.

 

Kyle: Yeah, yeah, whatever. Yeah, I don't mind.

 

Caleb: But yeah, just be vague. You don't have to put names. Nothing like that obviously. But I I don't know if you would label this one as one of your worst days or another one we

 

Kyle: absolutely.

 

Caleb: might touch on, but I know that, you know, like I said, Kyle's had a had a few.

 

Kyle: Yeah, I've had two equally worse days. And that was for sure one of them. And it was I was pretty later in my career, honestly. And I'd gone through an officer-involved shooting years prior to that, and it did not affect me nearly as much as what happened that day. so keeping it vague, I was I was working And we arrested a guy and we searched him. Not we, not me personally, but the other fellow officers searched him and they they found a gun on him. What they didn't know is that he had a second gun tucked in his pants, down in his underwear. So my partner and I were standing there and our sergeant asked us which one of you want to transport him to jail. And my car was not there at the time and his was. So he drew the short straw and he was tasked with transporting this guy to jail. Well, on the way to jail, the guy pulled the the gun that we didn't know that he had. He slipped his cuffs to the front, pulled the gun out of his pants, and shot my partner in his head. So what I was not prepared for in any way, shape, or form, and they don't they don't cover this in the academy. They'll they'll talk to you about. the chance that you may have to shoot someone or that you may get shot at or, you know, this, that, or the other, but they don't train you for seeing your partners injured. So I was not prepared for that mentally at all. That came as a real shock to me. so it was definitely the the hardest thing for me to come to grips with for sure.

 

Caleb: Yeah, I would yeah, I would definitely say so. that was I guess probably shortly before I met you, I guess.

 

Kyle: Yeah, because it was after that that I went back to Saint Jen where it was quote safer,

 

Caleb: Right.

 

Kyle: you know.

 

Caleb: Right. And remember that quote, people.

 

Kyle: Yeah.

 

Caleb: So what what about that day? And just for the listeners, that guy did survive, thankfully. Just so everybody is aware. what about that day do you think changed you the most when it came to your career? Your your yeah.

 

Kyle: it really makes it it makes you face your own mortality. you kind of in law enforcement you have this this this sense of like

 

Caleb: Inco Incon complacency.

 

Kyle: Well, not even that. It's like it's almost like this I don't know, like it it won't ever happen to me type mentality. And and you always see

 

Caleb: Right.

 

Kyle: it happen. I mean, there's officers that get shot all the time. You know, these things happen, but you just never think it'll happen to me or it'll happen here. That happens other places, not here. So whenever it does smack you in the face like that, you're like, Wow, that's that hits pretty close to home.

 

Caleb: And those that probably have been in law enforcement probably since twenty fourteen, which the Ferguson deal. that's when it really kinda spiked for us, in law enforcement. I guess I don't know, we'll call it modern day, I guess, law enforcement for lack of a better term. but there's been several that's been close to where, you know, we're from, where we work that That really sma smack you upside the head and it's like, Hey, this is real. it could be you one day. And I think that most of us has probably been in it long enough, have had those experiences to where, you know, you could look back and say, Yeah, that could've been me. You know, instead it was someone else. my train of thought on that one. So anyways, yeah, you came to St. Jan after that where it was supposed to be quote safer, when we were working together, and lo and behold, you bring your bad luck with you. And

 

Kyle: Mm-hmm.

 

Caleb: I don't know. I mean it was what, a couple of years a couple of years in probably.

 

Kyle: It's split two years later, yeah.

 

Caleb: And of course I had just went home probably an hour before this incident. And which we're not gonna dig I'm kinda wanting to have this guy come on and tell his story. which we're both very close with, but I want Kyle to tell his side of the story of what happened that day. and I to be honest, I don't recall fully your whole entire story at this point. Be just because so much was going on that day. so walk me through what happened from your point.

 

Kyle: So again, St. Jenna's a very quiet town, very low crime rate, nothing ever really happens. So when something does happen, it's a big deal. And but this was not like that. This was a night like any other where nothing is going on. everyone is at home by eight o'clock and there's about five people awake inside the city limits, and that's a couple police officers. couple of people in the ER

 

Caleb: Facts.

 

Kyle: and somebody at the gas station if you're lucky. so we got called to a peace disturbance and it was a a guy revving his engine in the driveway in the middle of the night, his motorcycle engine. And I was probably, I don't know, a couple of miles away and I could hear him roaring through town. And I was like, well, that's who we're getting the call on. So I immediately start looking for him. I can't find him. so my partner who we're gonna have on here hopefully is the one that actually responded to the call. So while he was responding to the call, I continued to look for the actual person that the call was about while he went to make contact with the the reporting party. So I went to the gas station and I spoke with the attendant and I said, Hey, have you seen this guy r you know? Roaring through town. And she said, Yeah, he just went that way. So I'm like, Okay, he's out here somewhere. So my partner went to the to the reporting party's house. So I thought, so my plan was I was gonna go to the entrance to the subdivision and catch this guy on his way back home. And I'm thinking, you know, I'll catch him out and about and, you know, ride him some tickets or whatever. So that was my my thought, my thinking. So I'm sitting there waiting, waiting. And the next thing I know, my partner's on the radio, like screaming bloody murder. So I'm trying to process this. I'm like, what is going on? Like he's meeting the reporting party. It's a peace disturbance.

 

Caleb: Mm.

 

Kyle: I'm trying to like immediately process all this. And the way that he's screaming in such a like a primal way, I'm thinking that he just got shot or something. So immediately like drop it and drive and go into the subdivision. And it's a big horseshoe s shaped subdivision with two entrances. And of course, he was right at the entrance to one side and I went in the other.

 

Caleb: That's gonna be my I was gonna ask which inch but you were the farthest one away.

 

Kyle: Of course. Yeah. So I went in the the wrong one technically. so I'm flying through there and he's still screaming on the radio. And I I have no idea what he's saying. I can't even make it out. So I arrive on scene and I get out and I'm looking for him and I see him in the front flower bed under the garden hose. And I walk up to him and I'm like, What what happened? And I can see that his uniform is burnt. And he said he malted me. And I said, what? He did what? He said he malt offed me. And again, that's

 

Caleb: Mm.

 

Kyle: just not something that you ever mentally prepare to encounter. You know, people don't malt off people. People stab you, punch you, shoot you, whatever, but

 

Caleb: Should yeah.

 

Kyle: they don't malt off you. So it took me a minute to process. So then I was I was thinking, okay, well, where is he now? Like where's the where's the bad guy? Could he still inflict more more harm on us? And

 

Caleb: Mm-hmm.

 

Kyle: so I in my thinking. We're at the reporting party's house because that's where he was going. So I'm looking around, like, where, where's this guy at? And someone from across the street who actually turned out to be the reporting party, said, He's he's in the house that you're at.

 

Caleb: Hey, it's Caleb here with the Human Element Podcast. Wanted to jump on here real quick, give you guys a rundown of what we have coming up. We have a YouTube channel out there if you guys haven't went and subscribed yet. Human Element Studios. If you haven't followed or subscribed to it, please go check it out. underneath the Human Element Studios, you're gonna find the Human Element Podcast. You're also gonna find a new show that we have coming up called the Non-Human Element sh podcast. And welcome back to the human element. hope you guys enjoyed that ad. We had some technical difficulties with somebody's camera. So we're gonna pick back up where he left off, where he was just talking to the reporting party who was across the street.

 

Kyle: So she yells over, he's in the house, the house that I'm at. So again, I'm I'm just supremely confused at this point because I thought that we were at the reporting party's house. so once I kind of got my bearings, my attention turned to getting this guy before he can hurt us again or any further. So I I walk up to the front storm door and the front storm door is open, but the I'm sorry, the front storm door is closed, but the door to the house is open so I can see inside through the glass. And I see this old man in there with his hands open like this, and he's holding someone back, and the guy he's holding back, I can see over his shoulder, chirping at me. So I swung the door open and told the the old man to get out of the way and drew down on him. And once he once I did that, he's he's yelling at me to get out of his house, get out of his house. And so I'm like, get on the ground, you know. So I took him into custody, really without further incident. But so that's that's kind of the that was the driving decision really for me mentally to get out of law enforcement because that was really my third major critical incident that I had gone through. And when they're involving your partners and and I had known that partner for, you know, since I started in law enforcement. He he was at St. Jen when I started down there. So I'd known him for at that point, you know, 13 years. And So for me it was just kind of like one, I'm not sure that I want to stick around long enough until it's my turn to get hurt. But also I'm just tired of seeing my partners get injured, their families have to go through them getting injured. It was all just it was kind of a wake up call that it was it was my time to to move on.

 

Caleb: Yeah, I can just tell you from like my end because like I said, I'd just left I'd probably only been home an hour, I think, and just laid down and you called me and like I'll s even your voice, like I'll never forget your voice on the other end of the phone saying like, you know, they got, you know, such and such and I'm just like, Do what? And you're just like, they they Molotoffed s what, you know, they molotoved him and I'm like, What are you talking about? And

 

Kyle: Mm.

 

Caleb: I could just tell in your voice that it was bad. Like real bad. and that's something, you know, I'll always remember that. Just that call. Like that's like it affected everybody. so like I said, I hope that we can get him on here to tell his side of the story. 'cause he's definitely got a story to tell and share. It's not ours to tell, it's definitely his. I just kinda wanna get your side of it because I know that led into the decision of you leaving law enforcement. the mental health aspect of it. Which sadly, you know, it comes to that level to when you have to make that decision. the other incident you dealt with not the one that we talked about, but the the second one which we haven't discussed, how did that one play into Like that was was that earlier on in your career?

 

Kyle: The second one? No. that was actually that was that was later on.

 

Caleb: Mm-hmm.

 

Kyle: Yeah. for sure later on. And that one also that one struck me pretty hard. I actually got out of law enforcement for six months after that. 'cause I'd again I just was not prepared for that to Without going into great detail, I mean it was it was really hard to deal with that day and what I saw that day. So again, it was just kind of like a what why why am I doing this type thing? So I got out of law enforcement for six months and went into real estate full time and was doing real estate full time and I just felt like I missed it. There were aspects

 

Caleb: Mm-hmm.

 

Kyle: of the job that I really did miss. And so I went I went back down to St. Jen after six months in real estate. I went back into law enforcement full time after that.

 

Caleb: I think that that's the other side of law enforcement that people don't ful I mean, there is a brotherhood there. and I know a lot of people would be like, it's the thin blue line, you know, it's a gang that you know which it's it's very similar to the militar you build bonds with these people that you work with because, you know, you have to rely on them to, you know, f to save you. Which we just kinda heard a story of that kind of situation. I mean, that guy could have very well come back out and and finish the job, you know, if somebody wouldn't have been there that quick. So that's just how it things can change in an instant. And even like and people that listen to this that aren't cops and they wonder why sometimes we act the way we do on maybe a ridiculous call to somebody, like a peace disturbance. Well that's a prime example because that was a peace disturbance. Literally somebody called because somebody their neighbor was being too loud next door. And it resulted in an officer getting lit on fire. Like that's extreme. so yeah, we kind of changed from, you know, law enforcement and then you've left again because of the mental, you know, health aspect of it. then you went into real estate again, correct?

 

Kyle: Yeah, I never fully left real estate after I got into it in twenty eighteen. I stuck with it even after I returned to law enforcement. It was it was it was actually a very good mental health out for me because in law enforcement you're not dealing with the best of society. There's a saying that you deal with five percent of society ninety percent of the time. And basically that just boils down to that You're not dealing with the good people. You're dealing with the the criminals on a routine basis. So real estate gave me an avenue to deal with people that were going through a happy point in their life, which was completely foreign to me at that point. So

 

Caleb: Mm.

 

Kyle: I really enjoyed it. I was able to help them during that happy period. And it was just much more positive vibes that I was really attracted to. So that's why whenever I got back out of law enforcement. that's what I do full time now.

 

Caleb: just two last questions to wrap up I guess the law enforcement part of this conversation. What do you think the law enforcement culture gets right about mental toughness today? And what do they definitely get wrong?

 

Kyle: what they get right is to be in law enforcement, you have to be mentally tough. And they do instill that into you. It's kind of paramilitaristic in that way that you're not allowed to, you know, show feelings and things like that. And you have to just, you know, move on. You know, we're all in this together. It's a brotherhood. Be mentally tough, move on, deal with it. And there is aspects of that that that do help because. If you are mentally weak, you you will not make it. And if not only will you not make it, but it can also affect you down the road through alcoholism, bringing it home to your family, going through divorces, and even, you know, suicide. There's a lot of police officers that commit suicide in their patrol car because they they don't feel any other way out besides that. So there are elements that they get right that you do have to have mental toughness for sure. But what they get wrong is that there's a flip side to that coin. And you can't just bottle that up forever. You have to be able to decompress. You have to be able to talk about it. You have to be able to get that out. Cause you can't just push it down and push it down and push it down without it eventually boiling over. So I do wish that there was more focus on in in in recent years, there's mental health has entered the law enforcement scene, but not necessarily for officers. It's more of Post Ferguson of the mental health on the street of, you know, bad guys going through a bad day, he needs a a shrink kind of thing. Not so much officer just went through a critical incident. Does he need to see a counselor? the officers are always an afterthought. And I think that in law enforcement, it would be a good idea for law enforcement officers to have more mental health, just kind of checkups, just periodic checkups and just see how they're doing and

 

Caleb: Mm-hmm.

 

Kyle: If we could implement that a little bit more and and save even a few suicides, it'd be completely worth it.

 

Caleb: Yeah, I agree. And I and that's obviously why I've kind of started this this podcast. 'cause, you know, coming from the military and law enforcement, I've got to see both sides of, you know, the hor I g I'm like double risk for everything. So so I I kinda started this as an avenue for people to tell their stories and talk about it because believe it or not, like and the people out there struggling talking about it Makes a world of difference. It it's weird. It's like it's like that lie, you know, you're finally admitting that you lied, you know, you're getting it off your chest. And I don't know. It has it has healing powers in it for sure. So last question. Looking back at your law enforcement career What do you feel like that it took from you?

 

Kyle: Would say my innocence for sure. Not to sound like cheesy or corny, but I often think what my personality traits would be like if I had never gone into law enforcement, because it does make you change as a person whenever you're dealing with that day in and day out. And when I was a a teenager and things like that, I was very like outgoing and the jokester. And in law enforcement, I became much more reclusive and introverted. So I think that that's probably what it took for me personally, would be the ability to see what kind of person I would be had I never become a cop.

 

Caleb: What what advice would you give the guy that's thinking about coming into law enforcement or has maybe, you know, two or three years on at this point? What would your advice be to them knowing now what you know and what you wish you would have known then?

 

Kyle: Be a fireman.

 

Caleb: Yeah.

 

Kyle: I'm just kidding.

 

Caleb: Touche.

 

Kyle: without law enforcement, the the world would go to hell in a handbasket. So they're needed. We have to have So I applaud every man and woman that stands up and does it. My sister is a police officer. What advice would I give them is take some of the advice I gave a few minutes ago. Be mentally strong when you have to be, but also find those moments of of mental vulnerability. And talk to someone about it. Even if even if it's if you don't want to bring it home to your spouse, talk to a partner, somebody that may have gone through some of the same things that you are, but you don't have to bottle it up. You don't have to keep it to yourself. and and try not to let the calls that you go on stick with you. They are a brief moment of time that you don't have to carry with you. You don't have to bring that with you home. You don't have to bring that with you in the future. When that call is over. Leave it there. that is something that I think a lot of law enforcement struggle with. And that's something that I developed very early on and carried throughout my career and and thank God every day that I have that ability to do that. so at the moment, digest it, feel those feelings, and then cut it off and leave it there.

 

Caleb: Yeah, and something I would also add is who is just know that you're you're susceptible to like addiction too with the alcohol and stuff. Know that you know that it's not solving your problems. It's it might feel like that at first, but in the long run, it's gonna be the problem for you. so just know going into it that you need to stay away from stuff like that because the addiction's real. I've seen a lot of that for sure too. all right, getting away from the sad stuff. dude, let's talk about the this new podcast that you got you know that we're coming up with. This it's called the Non Human Element Paranormal Podcast. I guess a brief background, like what got you into that?

 

Kyle: Into the paranormal. I didn't get into the paranormal. The paranormal got into me at a very young age. my mom's side the family's been surrounded by the paranormal for as long as I can remember. And that became very relevant in my own personal life at a young age, my first experience. I was, man, I was young. It was the very first house I lived in. If I had to guess, I'd say I was probably four or five years old. And I was laying in bed and my door was open and my light was off. My dad was in the living room, which was the next room over, and he had the light on. So the ambient light from the living room was coming in and just barely lighting my room up. And I'm laying there in bed and I felt something crawl on the bed. That I couldn't see with my own eyes, and it crawled up my chest, and I could feel it breathing in my face. And my dad was 10, 20 feet away, max. And I was so paralyzed with fear that I couldn't even scream. So that was my very first encounter with the paranormal. And since then, over the years, I've I've experienced paranormal. I I see the paranormal, I see ghosts or spirits, however you want to put it. I remember in my teenage years, different house. I would lay there in bed and through the doorway I could see straight down the hallway into the living room. And I would lay there and I and I would watch shadows walk back and forth in my living room. That, you know, those weren't real people, those were shadows I was seeing. Those were ghosts or spirits or entities, whatever you want to call them.

 

Caleb: And at this point you're getting comfortable with this? Like you're okay? Like hi Shadow Buddies.

 

Kyle: yeah, it didn't it didn't instill fear like it did the first time when it crawled on me. so at that point my fear turned into curiosity. I've I've had many, many experiences that I'll be sharing on the podcast. but I'm actually a paranormal investigator now. So I I'm a ghost hunter. So I go out to haunted locations all throughout the United States and over the past couple of years I've been fortunate enough to do this internationally, do some ghost hunts in Europe. So that's that's what I do in my free time for fun is I go to dark, musky, haunted places and talk to the shadows.

 

Caleb: You gotta tell me one in Europe. And I I gotta hear a story about that one. Where what location? Like

 

Kyle: so one that we did in Europe that was really cool. it was in Scotland actually. And there were these underground kind of catacombs. It's where a lot of the poor people lived. It was underneath bridges, and eventually they kind of covered it all up. So it's all these underground caverns now. And they're they're very I guess there's a lot of like negative energy and a lot of negative things that happened on there. So it's it's pretty pretty potent paranormal wise. But I was down there on a on a ghost hunt and I didn't experience a whole lot. But towards the end of the tour, we were standing in this little room, clear as day, I heard this woman like blood curdling movie scream. And I'm like, I just heard somebody scream like in these in these caverns. And the the woman next to me, she looked at me, she goes, Did you hear that? And I'm like, Yeah, I heard that too. So it was really cool. But anytime that I can go somewhere like that and be creeped out or get chills, like I'm in. That's that's my that's my adrenaline rush these days.

 

Caleb: Yeah. not only are s is this new show gonna do ghosts, we're also gonna be looking at one of my favorite topics, which is the UAPs and the the aliens and the different species that, you know what is it, the favorite cryptoids?

 

Kyle: Cryptoids, yeah.

 

Caleb: what I'm gonna steal your thunder on one. one of your stories because you have two that I know for sure. But I'm just gonna do the sneak peek of the upcoming show about your current studio and your little friend that you have around there.

 

Kyle: Do you want me to tell it?

 

Caleb: Yeah, go for it.

 

Kyle: So this house I've lived in now for eight years and I've had very few paranormal experiences until recently. Two prior to that. one, I woke up and there was a white shadow being standing in the window that immediately evaporated as soon as I registered what it was. and the second one I was in the living room watching TV and I watched this black shadow. mass close to the ground. And at first I thought it was a dog because it was close to the ground and I watched it w run up one flight of stairs and up the other. And so I think that I mean that could have been a prior animal that we had that passed on or whatever. So none of that ever really scared me, frightened me. Happened very infrequently. but probably about six months ago, I was down in the basement. I was working on some some hobby stuff and I was I was cutting vinyl and Right a past the vinyl cutter, I saw this shadow person in my peripherals walk in right in front of me. And it was full bodied black shadow person. And I turned and looked, and as soon as I turned and looked, it was gone. And I'm like, holy cow, like what did I just see? So much so that I I called one of the other paranormal investigators and and told her about the experience. So from then I was kind of like, that's a little little weird, whatever. But since then it's come back repeatedly. So just the other night I was down there and I was engraving in that room and I've I turned and I saw something move out of the corner of my eye. And I I was thinking to myself, nah, it's your mind's playing tricks on you, you know. You always try to like debunk it and discount it that it's not what you think it is. so I go back to to doing what I'm doing. I'm working on the computer and I had a TV next to my computer, but it was off. So it was just the black screen with the reflection. And through the reflection of the TV, I looked over and I saw the figure move behind me again. So I'm like, I'm still just I don't know why I'm trying to be skeptical. I guess because it's my own house and I I don't want it to be what I think it is. You know, I want to go out and find that stuff, not have it in my own house. so again, I tried discounting. I'm like, you know, I don't think so, but maybe. So a few minutes later, and I I think that I probably annoyed it by trying to discount it because a few minutes later I'm sitting there and I'm I'm you know, diligently working on this. And all of a sudden I felt this, I saw and I felt the black mass come from behind me and it completely enveloped me. So like just like this, everything went black and scared the shit out of me. So immediately like I'm like, my God, you know. So again, pure

 

Caleb: Did it get cold, like people say?

 

Kyle: No, there was no temperature associated. It was just it was just like closing your eyes sideways. Like everything went completely black and then I I realized it and I was like, okay, I'm done. I'm out. And I turned around and I I talked to it and I said, you know, you're not, you're not welcome here if you're gonna scare me and and do those kinds of things. And so if you're gonna do that, I don't want you here. so I I have a couple paranormal investigators that I go with and they they have the ability to see and communicate and with spirits on the other side. I I see them by chance. I don't have the ability to formally communicate or interact in the ways that they do. so I I talked to them. We just went to the Missouri State Penn overnight ghost hunt, which was awesome. but I asked them, I told them about the experiences I was having and and that's whenever they they kind of keyed into it and they told me it's a female and that I brought it home with me from a ghost hunt that I went on. And so I'll probably be trying to remove this from my house at some point. because just last night at one o'clock in the morning, and that's in a different area of my basement. So I'm in a completely different area. And I was like, you know, it's safe over here. So one o'clock in the morning last night I'm sitting here working on the computer and right here through the doorway I saw it moving in that room. So I was like, all right, well, I guess I'm not safe over here either. So

 

Caleb: Yeah. Kids, so remember that. Don't play with the paranormal because they will follow you home.

 

Kyle: You just have to be smart about it. don't welcome it. Don't invite it. Don't use Ouija boards. If you want to go out and investigate it, that's one thing. but I in it's it's good practice whenever you're wrapping up a paranormal investigation at a location to to kind of like talk to the space that you're at and tell them that they're not welcome to follow you. And I may have missed that one time or who knows? I mean, that's That was their interpretation that that's what happened, but it could have been anywhere, you know, I could have brought

 

Caleb: Mm.

 

Kyle: it home from anywhere. So

 

Caleb: so kind of jumping away from that. What mm I guess just briefly, so this podcast that's coming up, we're gonna co host it together. Obviously he's kinda leading the charge on it. what do you what do you hope that it it succeeds in doing, for the people listening?

 

Kyle: feeds curiosity. Like I said, my fear turned to curiosity. And I think there's a lot of people that have experienced paranormal something, whether it be ghosts, a UFO, who knows. but once once you have that initial encounter, it's like the curiosity is insatiable and you have to find out more and you have to know more. So a lot of paranormal podcasts are. And no knocking them at all, but they're they're people that are reading stories with spooky music playing in the background. And who knows if they're even real stories or AI generated or whatever. So our format's gonna be a little bit different. We're gonna have guests on that we're gonna interview, such as some of my paranormal friends that can communicate with the dead and talk to them about their life experiences. It's gonna be much more like like we're doing now. sit down, interview back and forth. I think it'll be really engaging for people to to listen to and See what they get out of it.

 

Caleb: And to be transparent with everybody listening, obviously they know that this show kind of brings its own level of theology and faith with it. So working with that I have to weave that into this as well. And you know, from my standpoint, which is hard for me to deal with it because I'm not saying that I don't believe obviously I do believe in these things. But I see them as more demonic than I see them as more, you know, less angels or your y your your grandpa who passed away coming to visit you. so I'm kind of I guess playing devil's advocate in a way of the show.

 

Kyle: Literally.

 

Caleb: Yeah, right. so you're obviously you're a believer as well. what how do you manage those two things together? Because I you know, we're gonna have people that listen because some people in the religious the theology world just refuse to to believe in any of that kind of stuff or they're just like, you know, it's demonic which like I said, I I do agree it is demonic, but it's not to the point where I shun like looking into it because I think that as the church or as, you know, Christianity goes, we don't spend enough time dealing with the spiritual realm and the spiritual side of things. So what what is your kind of take, I guess, on how you s deal with both juggle both?

 

Kyle: I don't think that anyone has all the answers, to be honest. And I believe in everything. I think that there you can be religious and still b believe in the afterlife and some of the other things. It's hard to believe in angels without believing in demons or vice versa. I mean so do I think that everything that people encounter here are Demonic? No, I don't. I think there's a lot of residual spirits and energy. I just don't think that we have all the answers, but I don't default to it being demonic like that. especially there's there's really good spirits that people have had experiences where, you know, they'll call for healing and they'll have white light come and overtake their body and perform healing. how could that not be? The opposite of demonic how how could that not be some divine healing intervention? It it really could. So it's

 

Caleb: Could it could be Jesus. Could be God, right? Yeah.

 

Kyle: I just don't think we have all the answers. And there's so much to the paranormal. I mean, there's there's the whole Sasquatch. You know, there's there's it's it's endless. So we're gonna

 

Caleb: Nessie.

 

Kyle: we're gonna cover it all, we're gonna talk about it all, and it's not just gonna be our opinion. We're gonna invite people on and and get their opinion, their experiences and hopefully Through listening to our podcast, you'll be able to ingest everything and and come up with your own opinion.

 

Caleb: Yeah. and that's kinda how it you know I look at so I see things a little I'm not like your orthodox Christian who sees, you know, everything like you're raised like the Southern Baptist way and the way you're taught. I I've learned to question things and do my own research and things and like my opinion And if you guys see a cat, it's my cat, she just snuck in. like when it comes to like heaven and hell, like a lot of people don't understand like those are medieval concepts, right? So those terms didn't even really come into play until medieval times and this this thought of going to heaven or you're gonna go down into hell, right? To me they're different realms that could be very well like around us here. just in a different you know, that makes sense like a real like a spiritual realm that we just can't see, or maybe that those things that you're talking about, that's what we're seeing that residual that breakthrough maybe that we're not supposed to see, you know, but for some reason it's there's this this happening. And I think that's why it can be important too to to research some of that. Is because I I think a lot of people get this misconception of, you're gonna go to heaven which is up above space, right? And hell is underground. You know, I I challenge people to look at it a little differently because a lot of those terms come much later than than you think they did. so, you know, I think that that could possibly be another realm that, you know, we're seeing. So I think it'll be fun, you know. So you just got back from Europe. Where did you go?

 

Kyle: this trip, this is my fourth time to Europe in five years. And on this one, this one we went Greece, Italy, Switzerland, Germany and France, just as the riots were kicking off, fortunately. So we got out

 

Caleb: Yeah.

 

Kyle: of there before things really started escalating.

 

Caleb: Yeah, France burning their s country down.

 

Kyle: Yeah they are.

 

Caleb: What I guess most exciting for me being a a history nerd. Tell me about Rome because I plan on going there this sh next year, so

 

Kyle: So every time I go to Europe, it's it's the same and whether it be the UK or Central Europe. But Rome really took it up a notch. And what I mean by that is seeing history, feeling history, it makes you it makes America feel so young. I mean, when you're seeing buildings that are hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years older than our country, it

 

Caleb: Mm-hmm.

 

Kyle: starts putting things in perspective. So we We got to see some ancient Roman ruins in in Tivoli, Italy. It was pretty impressive to to see that still standing. But it just the the time it it's really incomprehensible to for me. and then you go and you see the Coliseum and it's such a it's bigger than I thought it'd be, actually.

 

Caleb: Really.

 

Kyle: yeah, but it's just like a an engineering marvel. that was built so long ago. It's just but to be able to to see and feel history's pretty pretty special thing that I think everyone should experience.

 

Caleb: Did you see the Vatican?

 

Kyle: We did not, no.

 

Caleb: Is it like farther away from r like the city itself? Like did you see it from

 

Kyle: It

 

Caleb: a distance?

 

Kyle: we pass this the the walls that surround the Vatican, yeah.

 

Caleb: The walls. So you can't you can't actually see in it because of the walls, I'm assuming.

 

Kyle: No, no, they're they're several stories high. I mean, they're they're legit walls that yeah. There's no seeing over those.

 

Caleb: And those listening it doesn't know anything really but it's it's kind of its own country within a country. so it's it's separate than Italy or Rome itself. how about the Arch of Titus? Did you see that?

 

Kyle: what is that?

 

Caleb: It was an arch that had a lot it was it was dedic Titus it was dedicated to the sacking of the temple in Jerusalem in seventy AD.

 

Kyle: Is that the one that's just outside the Coliseum?

 

Caleb: it's it's like an arch kind of like thing by itself. That's why it's called the Arch of Titus, but it like this depiction on it of them carrying like, you know, the Jewish candles, how it has is it six? You know how the the Jewish candle it has depictions of that and them carrying like the Roman soldiers carrying all these treasures off. That's what it's depicting is the sack of Rome or Jerusalem in seventy A D. That was when they tore the the last Temple of Solomon down. And that's the last time that those treasures have been

 

Kyle: Not I didn't see that.

 

Caleb: seen. So

 

Kyle: Does it depict him taking all that to Oak Island and burying it?

 

Caleb: Right. That's where they say well, that was the last time the Ark of the Covenant was actually seen, was right before that happened. So yeah, I was just curious that you'd seen that as well.

 

Kyle: Mm mm. No, Chat GBT did not recommend that one. Sorry to say.

 

Caleb: I had. Missed a good one. What I guess for the foodies listening, what was was pizza really like an Italian thing?

 

Kyle: Ooh, so I am a huge ambassador to Europe. And I think that everyone, every American should experience Europe at least once, because it is such an eye-opening thing to see how big the world is and step outside

 

Caleb: Mm.

 

Kyle: of your comfort zone. however The food over there is not great. yeah. No. Yeah. well, we we

 

Caleb: I will attest. Overseas food really isn't. Our chemicals make it make it so good.

 

Kyle: take everyone's food from around the world and then we inject it full of like sugar and high fruit, chest corn syrup and all this other, like, you know, bad for you ingredients. Yeah.

 

Caleb: That red that red die, yeah.

 

Kyle: and make it delicious. So now our pizza here is so much better. I really and That's really every country I went to is kind of the same story.

 

Caleb: Yeah, I've been to a couple and I I fully agree that I've never really been a huge fan of any food, so

 

Kyle: There's a reason that they're all in shape, you know?

 

Caleb: I will say though, Germany's Wienerschnitzels are that's a hot dog for you people.

 

Kyle: Germany d Germany has some good hearty food. I don't get me wrong. They're everywhere has good food. You can find something good anywhere you go, even Italy. But would I take our some of our chain pizza here, even over some of the authentic Italian pizza that I had there? Yeah, absolutely.

 

Caleb: Just a big taste difference for I guess coming from the United States and the way we taste things compared to their taste, like there's a difference for

 

Kyle: Mm-hmm.

 

Caleb: sure. yeah, man. So I guess we'll wrap this up. I appreciate you coming on the show. I always want to end with a prayer. You're cool with that?

 

Kyle: Sure.

 

Caleb: and then we'll wrap it up, man. So Heavenly Father, thank you for providing us this platform to reach people and I hope that it reaches the people who need to hear it and that they can come out and talk about their experiences and their stories because everybody has one. We're all human and we all deal with with emotions just as you did when you you came as Jesus. I just ask that you just continue to bless this platform and get our word out there so we can touch and reach as many as we can. I'm thankful for Kyle here for coming on. And I just I also ask that you get rid of his his friend in his basement, please, Lord. You're only you can do that. So I thank you for everything and just continue to be with us, Lord, in Jesus' name, amen.

 

Kyle: Amen, brother.

 

Caleb: so yeah, man, thanks for coming on, The Human Element. You were the second guest. there's lots com lots to come. We got I mean at least a good three or four lined up in the next couple months. So and then we got this new show kicking off. We're gonna be busy and people don't realize how much work goes into building a studio and podcasting. It's more than a hobby. and it costs money, so You can help us out by subscribing to the shows, especially YouTube, giving us a follow. It's free for you all. but it helps us out massively. We just gotta grow our numbers and everything helps. So I appreciate you coming on, man.

 

Kyle: Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having me again. I really appreciate it.

 

Caleb: All right, brother. Take it easy.

 

Kyle: You too.