Piano Keys Or Camping Sticks? How Trusting God Grows your Impact w/ Joleen Steel

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (00:00)
Are you sensing that the thing God has you doing right now isn't the thing that he might want you to keep doing? Our guest today on the podcast, Joleen Steel, has built thriving piano studios from the ground up, not once, but twice. Yet she moved on from these successful creative businesses and stepped into a completely different calling that now impacts families and children around the world through camping stick kids.

This episode is going to help you to embrace your creative calling, even when it asks you to move in a different direction without losing who you really are.

My name is Allen C. Paul. the host and founder of God in Gigs, and we are here to help you to become the creator that you are created to be.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (00:47)
I would love to welcome Joleen Steel to the God and Gigs show. How are you?

Joleen Steel (00:54)
I am so great. Thank you so much for having me, Allen.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (00:57)
now I like to always start with kind of like the part where nobody knows who you are yet. And then give them like that peeling away of the onion of all the amazing layers that you have. So if someone like now is meeting you for the first time and let's say they didn't read the bio, they didn't read the title, they have no idea what you do. What are those two or three things you want people to know about you upon first meeting?

Joleen Steel (01:21)
Well, of course, first of all, I'm Joleen. a mom and a mother of three boys. And I have an amazing husband who is a pastor. And you know, I really love all the things that God has allowed me to do in my life. I've been able to be a kindergarten teacher.

⁓ I've owned two different piano studios ⁓ and now I am the chief operating officer with Camping Sick Kids and my dad's the CEO and I get to work alongside him ⁓ in ministry.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (01:55)
this is so beautiful. I love how right away we hear all these different facets of your life, But I would also like to kind of dig into a little bit of the genesis of how you even started getting into

I guess you could say art, how you got into creative stuff, because music and everything kind of usually starts as a passion as a child. So what was your upbringing like and how did that lend itself into becoming more of a creative person?

Joleen Steel (02:23)
Well...

I was a pastor's kid and we moved a lot. And when you move a lot, you know, I always say I was like an army brat, except I was the pastor's kid brat. So a lot of times we'd go somewhere and I really didn't have like a circle of friends. I was like the new kid everywhere we went. And so I really developed

this

love for reading books was my first thing. I would read a book, I'd be the one who'd be sort of sitting off to the side at recess reading, and I learned to love the outdoors. And I would go for long walks. I grew up in Canada, primarily, and I would go for long walks. And nowadays, I mean, I can't imagine parents letting their kids do what I did, because I would just be gone for hours, you know, out in the woods by myself. and I would sing songs and I would just

find little rabbit burrows and bird's nests and just felt like I had so much freedom as a child and the outdoors really sort of developed that love for God's world and it kind of, I mean I wanted to draw what I saw

it was that whole aspect of being outside in God's world as a child that sort of spurred on those loves for creative things.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (03:39)
So that's such a beautiful picture because we know God is the ultimate creator, the original creator, and you were literally walking through creation as a child. That's kind of like what other people say, hey, when you need to get an idea, go out and take a walk.

Just get out in nature and something that clearly speaks to you. I also wanted to ask you quickly about the, said singing songs. so music apparently had kind of like a piece of that too. So was there art and music? it where like you're in church and you have to play piano, you have to the drums or you had to do things in church. Was that also part of your upbringing?

Joleen Steel (04:14)
Well, I was, I loved to sing and I don't know that I was ever a fantastic singer, but as part of that, I took piano lessons because I wanted to learn how to play the piano and sing.

And then when I continued to learn piano music, kind of singing kind of dropped off and I really enjoyed piano more.

I became a piano teacher and that's kind of a funny story because piano teaching I always felt like was an optional thing because I had a degree in education and so I was a teacher, a classroom teacher after I married my husband but because he's a pastor, anyone who knows pastors lives,

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (04:49)
Okay.

Joleen Steel (04:58)
you have you trust in the Lord's provision at all times and then you have these ebbs and flows in your life. We're like, okay, we're good. We got a house. We're secure. Everything's great. And then, oh, you know, the Lord does something and push, you know, and you're like, Oh, what's next? I don't know. And as a as an educator, when you change states, not all licenses are reciprocal. So some states that we've moved to, I couldn't teach right away.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (05:22)
Right?

Joleen Steel (05:27)
So I would just start teaching piano. And so that became part of what I did.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (05:33)
So this is where you and I clearly have some, a shared affinity, because I taught piano as well as a pianist myself. And one of the things I've said to many people, all the time has been, I can't stop being a teacher. I was a classroom teacher as well. So we share that where I was teaching music. And so there's so much about being a teacher and being in the world of helping people to engage this art, engage this discipline.

And yet you also know that usually is a lot of frustration So I wanted to kind of like just explore a little bit about that because there's also this idea of trying to learn the skill of building something, anything that's worthwhile. Right.

it takes time to talk a little bit about how you saw that in your own teaching studio, getting people to take time and learn things that are important over time and not getting frustrated.

Joleen Steel (06:30)
Well, as a kindergarten teacher, you I loved the younger children. And so when that translated to becoming a piano teacher, I found this niche and people always say, find a niche, you know, don't just do the broad thing. And my niche was teaching as young as four.

to begin to learn to love music and I was extremely creative. when students would come to my studio, we weren't always sitting at the piano. Sometimes it was little bean bags with ABCs on them. Sometimes it was working with pencil paper, usually crayons or markers. I really tried not to do pencil too much. ⁓ Sometimes it was using one of those great big floor pianos, you know, where you could step on the note or toss the bean bag. I mean, I just, love

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (06:46)
Okay.

Yeah, I love those. ⁓ gosh, yes.

Joleen Steel (07:16)
all the creative I love the little tiny rollout pianos that I put on the table if I had like a larger group of five or six students at a time I would have a little rollout pianos we put them on the table you know you've seen those they just sort of roll up and they have like only you know

part of the piano keys, but it's enough for little tiny fingers to practice. And so as a result of that, the first ⁓ experience I had with really building a studio of my own, I couldn't believe the response. The other thing that happened is I offered traveling to people's homes.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (07:53)
Okay.

Joleen Steel (07:53)
So before long, I had way more students than I could handle. So I had to hire teachers to work under me. when we were in, ⁓ well, the first time we lived in Pennsylvania, I started a studio with eight students. And by the time we left, I had 70 students and three teachers working under me. And I knew like,

This thing was from God, right? Because it provided for our family during a season where my husband's job was not as stable. And so it was really a blessing, not only that, but then when it came time to move on.

I just thought this is crazy. How do you sell like piano students? Right? Like, cause there's no, but I just thought, whatever I'm going to offer this. And I shared with my then teachers under me. And before I even got home from that meeting, one of them called me and said, don't sell it to anyone I wanted.

So I ended up selling and it was a small amount. it was, but to us it was $10,000, you know, and I was able to just give her all of the names of all of the students in the families knowing that she's taken a risk. Like when I leave, people could leave too. They could go find something else, but I had built a name that was not only about me.

It was called New Song Music Studios. So when, when I sold the business to this new teacher under me, ⁓ they were, they were still with New Song Music Studios because I sold her the brand, the name, all the signage, every, the website, everything went to her. And I felt like that's what made it worthwhile. The risk for her.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (09:17)
Smart.

Joleen Steel (09:40)
⁓ so that was, it was fun. And I remember just falling to my knees in gratitude because

If anyone's ever had to move across the country, you know, you need every penny. And I got in the door and I just cried. was like, thank you, Lord. You know, you helped me build this. It provided while we were in this season and now it's going to provide us as we move to the next season. ⁓ and then I did it a second time in my life. ⁓ I am almost 60 years old, so I had another opportunity at another location, ⁓ to do it again. And I did the whole thing. I sort

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (09:50)
Yeah.

Joleen Steel (10:15)
I've just followed the model I'd used before ⁓ and did the whole thing over again. And once again, when it was time to move, I was able to sell it to one of the teachers on the team. So it was just really a learning experience for me, but exciting because I'm like, wow.

If you can sell people's names for $10,000, you know, like it just, it blew my mind, but I wasn't selling their names. I was selling the brand that I had created and, the, the values.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (10:42)
Yeah.

Joleen Steel (10:49)
Like people knew when you came to New Song Music Studios that it was the values that I had put in place under that brand that they were still part of. And I can look back now and I can say both of those studios are still thriving. The one teacher changed it to Pineapple Music Studios. ⁓ She just changed the name at one point. But they're both thriving. They're both doing really well. And that's the blessing of

creating something, leaving it behind and seeing it thrive after.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (11:20)
I love this and what I really would love to, like we could go deep into this very situation about being a creative, but thinking about the future, thinking about the system you're creating and creating something of value that will last. And I think one of the things that our creative tribe often struggles with is thinking outside of the box of their identity being tied to the business that they create, right? I've been a music teacher my whole life, still a music teacher, but don't own a studio currently, right?

You were able to move on when you needed to move when your Lord was moving you and your husband, you were able to say, Hey, my identity is not tied up in this business of being a music teacher in this particular area. You can move it on. So you were able to kind of not the word disassociated sounds very negative, but you were able to disconnect right from that specific brand and say, Hey, I'm not just the person who runs this. I'm able to move on to do something else. So think that's super important not to talk about. could, I would get later until the business.

Joleen Steel (12:06)
That's true.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (12:19)
part, but just the identity part must have been like, you know, sounds like it was something you knew was part of the deal of following God and being able to let things go and move on in transition.

Joleen Steel (12:31)
Yeah, I agree. And I, you know, I've been to a lot of writers conferences and different kinds of conferences, the podcast conferences, and a lot of times they talk about like, your face should be on every page and people are buying you and people are, and I just have not found that to be true. I have found that people ⁓ really want to be part of

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (12:49)
Hmm.

Joleen Steel (12:55)
brand or a movement or something exciting that's happening and it doesn't matter if it's my face or your face but if you're doing something that people are excited about people believe in people want to jump on board with that's what you have to build and it really keeps us as Christians I think it helps to keep us from vanity you know this is not my

ministry or my business. This is all from God. He has brought the clients. He has brought the partnerships, you know, and I'm just walking in obedience to what he's calling to me to do so that when it's time to step aside, I can say, wow, all right, Lord, take that for whoever's going to take over next. And, you know, let's see the kingdom come through all of that.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (13:47)
That's a huge, great point, huge point there about the fact that we cannot get in the way. And I know a same struggle I've had with my personal podcast, you guys can say right now, you can look at God and gigs and see that my name very rarely pops up and the title, right? Or, you know, I took my face off the logo, not because I'm scared to show up, not because I don't know that I am the leader, but like you said, I want to make sure that this is always about the other people, the community.

that are really stakeholders and of course it all belongs to God in the end. So I want to make sure that even though I am a steward, you are a steward of the brand, even the brand you're building, now the platform you're building, now you're a steward of it, but again, is not where you have to be the focal point of everything. Cause that's a lot of pressure, a lot of pressure on creators, a lot of pressures on business owners, a lot of pressure on all of us when we make ourselves, like you said, the focal point, it could be both ego and it could be depressing. It could be crushing.

because we're not supposed to keep a weight of all of that stuff on ourselves.

Joleen Steel (14:44)
True.

Yeah,

yeah, it's a it's it really does sort of there's that balance right that you have to sort of find and and ⁓ I think the main thing for me has always been you know, whose whose is this? Who does this belong to and giving the glory to God and as we get into talking about camping stick kids, I mean over and over and over again God has showed up at my weakest moment

at the point where I'm ready to quit and throw it in. And he's like, no, no, I got this, you know, and, then I can keep going, you know, whether it was, needed a spiritual, ⁓ word and renewal or financial help or whatever it was that I needed at the moment, God just brought it along, you know? So that's why I think keeping our focus on who are we doing this for? ⁓ it makes all the difference.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (15:38)
Yeah.

Yeah. The glory of God and the good of others. always take that quote from Jordan Rainer and that's the easiest way to say it is for the glory of God and the good of others and not ourselves. Right. And we love our neighbors as ourselves and not ever reversing that. So I would love to talk about that. You mentioned your project and you mentioned growing up in the outdoors, you mentioned singing art and creativity. So at some point,

God must have called you to yet another new idea. So I'm curious on how the camping stick kids even enter the picture in terms of this connection between family, education, the outdoors. Like what was the genesis of all that?

Joleen Steel (16:18)
Right. Well, first of all, Camping Stick Kids is a ministry that exists to equip parents and leaders to help their children establish a strong and meaningful faith and relationship with God so that they can live that out in this world.

you know, the origin story is really, again, of God. Because I was teaching piano at the time that this all started. And it's all the way back to 2015. So we're on our 11th year now. And in 2015, my dad received the John Avery Whitaker Award from Focus on the Family. And I had a...

applied for him to receive that thinking, ⁓ there's probably thousands and thousands of people who are submitting their fathers, you know, for this. But I had watched my dad lead camp ministries and lead thousands of children to Christ over the years. And so for me, he was the epitome of what I saw. He even used puppets and stories and songs. ⁓ And so for me, watching that in my father and then seeing him receive

that from Focus on the Family. They interviewed us on their Adventures in Odyssey podcast in 2015 and that was sort of the, it gave me a lot of courage because just a few weeks before all of this, my dad had come to me and said, I need you to write a story for this new idea I have. And I remember thinking, I love my dad so much, I'll do anything for him, but you know.

I'm just going to do it because for him, right? And, and I was thinking, yeah, I'm thinking little, right? Like this is just going to be a little thing. And what he had, I'm going to show you is he had a hiking stick and it's 44 inches long. And it had, and you can see them, it had a leather strap with these colored beads attached. It's got lots of things on it now because we have grown.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (18:01)
Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Honor your father. Let's just get it over with.

Joleen Steel (18:28)
and he had this hiking stick and he had been traveling with the Fellowship of Christian Farmers who are based ⁓ primarily at that time was Canada, but now they're in the United States and they go to state fairs and in Canada, agrobitions and they hand out these hiking sticks for free with the leather strap with the five colored beads and they tell the gospel story. And then if someone receives Jesus, pray or wants to receive Jesus, they pray with them and whether they do or not.

They give them the hiking stick. But what was happening is a lot of those big places did not want our people giving the sticks to children because they were afraid they'd use them as a weapon, which it happened. So and my dad's heart is for children and

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (19:11)
⁓ yeah, just turn it into a sword or something.

Joleen Steel (19:19)
So he came to me with this wild idea. Why don't you write a story around the five colors and let's make it for kids. And then he said, you know, that's a good story, Joleen, but I would like you to develop something for them to earn to put on the hiking stick. And that's where the medallions came in. And so now we have a gold, black, red, white, green medallion that children earn on their hiking stick.

All of that to say, we started out with this, what I thought was a little idea. My dad then, the whole focus on the family thing happened. And it really propelled me forward and gave me faith because I realized I need to be thinking bigger. know, we think, ⁓ first of all, we think as Christians, we shouldn't strive for success because that's vanity and pride. But once the Lord set in my mind,

I'm not striving for success ⁓ as the world sees it. I'm actually striving to reach thousands and thousands of children for Jesus Christ so that they can grow to be influencers in this world that's broken and needs to hear about Jesus. So once I had that in my head and I was thinking bigger, it made all the difference.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (20:41)
That's so powerful. Number one, I cannot imagine. I feel like you're a celebrity now because I grew up on adventures and Odyssey with it. Wits end like the entire thing. And here's where all of these worlds come together as podcasters. I remember being almost upset when I saw there was a DVD or VCR of of Wits in because I didn't want to see it there. I wanted.

Joleen Steel (20:48)
Yeah.

You wanted it on

the radio.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (21:06)
I

wanted my image of it, right? And so that's such a beautiful picture already of the impact that your father was having that they thought his work was worthy of that honor and for you to see him working side by side with so many other ministries. Now he gives this idea to you and you just mentioned it. You thought it was small. You thought it was just something to kind of add on. And then God gave you this larger vision for it. So I want to ask for anybody who is now hearing that same kind of call, God's

asking me to build something as that's kind of calling me to use my art or my talent and my brand and you know, my experiences in my life to start building it. What were some of the first obstacles that started to kind of either pull you back, got in your way, made you feel like maybe this is too big, anything like that, because there's somebody else who might be, you know, would be encouraged to know that 11 was, say, yeah, 11 years of doing the math now. Yeah, but at the beginning, what were some of the things that might've, you know, slowed you down or you felt like were things you had to overcome?

Joleen Steel (22:05)
Yeah, I mean two things come to mind right away and the first is insecurity You know, like i'm not i'm not the right image for for that kind of thing, you know the whole like Speaking and and being in front of people I can give me a crowd of children and I will command their attention But put me in front of adults to talk about How they can be leading their children to christ and I was feeling really insecure because and it has turned into speaking engagement

and opportunities like this. And so once again, I had to rely on the power of the Holy Spirit in me to say, hey, I've gifted you and I'm going to enable you to do whatever it is and to speak in front of whoever I want you to speak in front of. So getting over that insecurity. The second thing was finances. You know, I was really anxious about all the things that my dad wanted us to do and who's going to pay for it.

You know, I mean, great ideas. You know, these medallions, you know, we had to invest $8,000 to get enough medallions to sort of get started. And then the books, that was another thing. was another like $3,000 just to get, you know, a group of books printed. And who's gonna do the illustrations? Who's gonna do the editing? Who's gonna do like all these questions, right? That came down in my mind to money.

Where's it going to come from? And my dad is an amazing man of faith. I'll cry if I talk too much about him. He's 83 years old.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (23:42)
in this.

Joleen Steel (23:42)
I just spent

a week with him and my mom in Florida and you know, he never stops. He is always, he says retirement is for heaven. He is not retiring. You know, he's retired from pastoral ministry, but he's not retired from the work that God's given us to do. So he's a great man of faith and he would say to me, cause every six months I'd be like, I'm quitting. I just can't dad. I gotta go back out into the world. I gotta get more piano students or you know, I gotta teach full time. Like I don't have time to

all of these things and he would say hold on, hold on, hold on, know, get, he'd say Doreen, you'd call my mom, get in here. And my mom had come to the Zoom call like this that we were having often and he was like, we gotta pray because Joleen wants to quit again. And they'd pray.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (24:29)
Ha ha!

Joleen Steel (24:31)
My mom is the prayer warrior and so they pray and you know and I would feel like okay, okay, okay. Well long story short, just this past week I spoke and I shared ⁓

primarily about the importance of helping children to love Jesus. That we teach children that Jesus loves them, but we need to teach them to love him back. And I was really nervous and scared, you know, but I got up and it was all, there was 200 retired pastors and missionaries and their wives in the audience. And for me, it was very intimidating.

But under the power of the Holy Spirit, I shared. And ⁓ my dad lives in this little tiny ⁓ community in Lakeland that's a Christian community basically of all these retired people. And for two days afterwards, my dad would say, another bird is at the door because we hear knock, knock, knock, knock,

I want to support your ministry and they'd hand over a check, know, our hand over cash.

we believe what you are doing and what God has for you to do. And so we want to partner with you.

what God did as part of that speaking engagement is we are able now to send 300 books and resources to the Philippines,

So I am so excited about how God has opened up that opportunity. And it is because of people's generosity that we can turn around now and give generously to a ministry somewhere else. So you see what I'm saying? Like you can look at your insecurities and the lack of funds and say, well, it's too big. can't do it. But when you submit it to God and you are ⁓ faithful,

And then if you're lucky enough like me to have people of faith and prayer warriors to keep you from quitting, you know, he provides because if it is of God for you to continue in whatever lane you are in, submit it to him and he will provide what is necessary. So. ⁓

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (26:46)
This is so beautiful. And

one of the things I want to make sure to highlight that you said, you didn't gloss over it at all, but I want to make sure you highlight it because you talked about it's not just money, right? So it's not just people bringing the money that you're concerned about. It's also the partnership of people who believe in your vision, who believe in what you believe in. The only reason they believe in it is because you shared it.

There's no hiding away from the actual stepping out in faith and doing the thing and sharing the thing. And like you said, relying on God to give you the strength and the connection, but

there is an action that you have to take. And I want to pivot a little bit back to the kids that you care so much about as a teacher and then as a music teacher and now helping to run Camping Stick Kids.

One of the things I loved about Being in boy scouts was that camaraderie was the connection between people, between my family and my, my troop. And I feel like that's a big, it sounds like it's a big part of camping stick kids.

that's needed in society because people don't understand that whole, need each other, we need to show up for each other. So is that a big part of Kep me Sticks kids and what you're trying to do?

Joleen Steel (27:53)
It really is. And I ⁓ will say this phrase that I feel like maybe it's not as down to earth. I'll say it the way we could say it is that we are creating intentional discipleship models beyond Sunday morning. Because, and in a nutshell, we are equipping families to do the work.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (28:07)
Okay.

Joleen Steel (28:14)
You know that a lot of times people decide to bring their children to church because they don't feel spiritually equipped enough to teach them what they need to know, especially if they're seekers. And as part of that intentional discipleship pathway outside of Sunday morning,

I'm trying to think if it was 2016 or 17, it was kind of early in our growth as a ministry.

Okay, Lord, you did that big thing with Focus on the Family. here comes Trail Life USA. And they have like, at the time, I think they had 40,000 boys. Now they have over 60,000 boys as part of their program and their ministry. It is a Christ-centered, boy-focused organization that I strongly recommend families to check out.

but they were having their fifth year anniversary. ⁓ And they were having a big thing. And I thought, you know, we should be a vendor. Maybe we could like get a little table in a booth and talk about because we have hiking sticks, which is great for like this scouting style ministry. And so I called and I got a table and I showed up with my dad at this, ⁓ you know,

year anniversary and there were like five other people there. Yeah. And and they were big people. It was like American Heritage Girls and the the Christmas shoe boxes. ⁓ You know and Moody you know Moody Ray. I was like what and here I am like at my little table with my few little things and thinking like only big companies are around me.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (29:43)
yeah.

Joleen Steel (29:57)
And you know, once again, my dad was like, stop that. It doesn't matter. We are here for whatever purpose God has. Well, long story short about that, we ended up with a strategic ministry partnership with Trail Life USA, which basically means they recommend our resources to all of their boys who are ages five through 12 to use to earn their worthy life award. It's a spiritual, it's a little metal badge that goes on there.

⁓ uniform and has a cross on it. And so our resources fit perfectly with their Worthy Life Award. So that is another thing, that whole idea of like, here we go, you know, how is God going to help us with intentional discipleship pathways outside of church? Trail life is a big part of that for us. ⁓ But we also believe that ⁓ there are, did you know, by the way,

that the United States has over 16 million children. And we do not even make the top 10 of countries with the most children in the world. For example, India has, think it's like 3.65, 365 million children. I get my numbers all mixed up. Millions and millions of children need to hear about Jesus, not just in North America, but around the world.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (31:09)
Me and ya

Absolutely.

Joleen Steel (31:21)
And

so I'm suddenly thinking about 60 million children in America. You know, I'm not thinking about, ⁓ you know, five or 10 kids at church on Sunday morning, which they are, every child is important. Every child is important. We all, we started out with this mantra of one camp sharing the gospel, one camper at a time. But, ⁓ and we still do that.

But one camper became a thousand campers, became a hundred thousand campers, and we believe will become millions of campers and campers to me as children.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (32:02)
I love the fact that their picture is not about the numbers, but it is about the numbers. I heard this at you version. when I went to the U version beyond a billion event, they've put out a billion installs of the Bible app, right? God's word on a billion devices. And then I think the director, the founder, Bob, Bobby Grunwald,

he said, the numbers matter because people count. And it's right back to that 99 versus one, right? Jesus leaves the 99 for the one. That does not mean the 99 aren't important. It means that we always look for the one so that we can continue as you said, to serve the 99. You show up at these events, you showed up as a speaker, you got over insecurity because you wanted to get to that one camper. But then that family can serve five other campers or five other ministries.

maybe as creators, I think we do get stuck in that kind of, well, if I can only reach one and then we maybe use that as a cop out, right?

So there might be a lot of that where us as, know, once God gives us the vision, we had, we do have to, in a sense, get out of our own way.

Joleen Steel (33:11)
Well, and listen, you never know who that one is that you're speaking to. I had heard this story that there was this Sunday school teacher once and, she was really discouraged because only two little boys would show up every Sunday morning for Sunday school. And then suddenly it dropped off and it was one little boy and she's like, should I just keep doing Sunday school or not? Well,

The way I heard the story is that little boy was Billy Graham. And he grew up, of course, and had a ⁓ massive global reach for Christ in the world. And I can say from personal experience that I know this is true. My dad and I started speaking at workshops and going to conferences and stuff. And we had this one workshop where two leaders showed up to our workshop too. And

And my dad pulled me aside, just pulled me out in the hallway real quick and he goes, listen, I know there's two, but you never know what God's gonna do with two. So you speak like there's 200 in that room. And I did, I went in there and I tried to keep it natural because there was only two. But in my head, I'm thinking it could be 200. One of these guys could be the one who goes, well sure enough, one of them was the regional director.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (34:16)
Yeah.

Joleen Steel (34:28)
for ⁓ Trail Life in Texas. And he has been instrumental in our reach with Camping Stick Kids into Texas. And it was just him and one other guy in the room. So you never know who is the one in the room that's actually gonna be the one who either invests in your ministry or shares about your ministry.

or gets on fire for Christ and goes out and starts a whole new ministry that has nothing to do with you, but it has everything to do with the gospel and the ministry that God has given. Sorry, I'm just getting so excited.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (35:07)
No, this is not that that that passion is what we're talking about the

vision and the desire to actually keep going. And I love again, going back to the picture of your father and your mother praying when you felt like quitting, because it's going to happen. I mean, if if the Bible keeps saying, be not weary and well-doing, it's because we are going to get weary. Like, it's clear, you know, he says fear not because we're going to fear like every time there's something in the Bible, it's because we know it's coming. And so

Joleen Steel (35:36)
And it's about

obedience too, because he also says, go there for all the nations. And it's about obedience as well. When you know the Lord has put a call on your life and you run away and try not to do it, ⁓ God has a way of putting you back in the lane and saying, no, I have this for you. I had a friend who said he was

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (35:41)
Mm-hmm, which means we don't want to go.

Yes, he does. He will send the...

Joleen Steel (36:04)
He was driving truck and he'd been a pastor and he was driving truck instead and he had stopped at a stoplight and he heard, he's like, I know it's crazy, but I felt like I audibly heard God say, what are you doing? What are you doing driving truck? I have ordained you to be a pastor and a minister and to preach the gospel. And he got back into ministry because of the call of God. So.

You know, we just have to practice obedience with our faith as well.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (36:37)
So true. And this is one of those conversations that I know somebody will reach somebody right at that moment, right? Where either they are having the pivot moment of, I need to either grow something bigger that I thought was just going to be my example would be. I thought God and gigs was going to be a little pamphlet that I was going to write and share with a couple of musicians, right? Or I was going to do my own little self therapy and then interview a few people to help me figure out how.

to navigate the mainstream arts and entertainment space and be a musician without sacrificing my faith. And here we are talking, you know, eight years later, because, you know, each of us took that leap of faith. And one of scriptures I always will quote over and over, so my life first is Psalm 25 and 10, which is all the paths, plural, of the Lord are full of mercy and truth to search to such that keep his commandments. And I just love that plural paths, because you took a plural path through music.

through teaching and then taking on this leadership of this ministry, which is blessing thousands of families and children. So I know we've got to start wrapping up, but I do have a question for you that I always like to end with. And that's the question of if you could talk to the person who is where you were. So in other words, let's say maybe they're at the, they built up a little bit of a studio, maybe they have a little bit of a musical or artistic bent and they've been able to, they've been successful, right?

But they're at that pivot point. Maybe they're being asked to move. Maybe they're being asked to change ministries. Maybe they're being kind of called as they feel that voice saying, no, you should try to be growing this or grow something entirely different. What would you say to the person who is where you were now that you've learned what you've learned?

Joleen Steel (38:19)
You know, it's a much longer story that I would love to share with you at some point, but God at ⁓ a very young age for me made it clear that I was under his wing and that he was my protector and he was my God and he would steer this ship, you know, wherever he wanted it to go. And so I would say, remember whose wing you are under first of all.

You know, you are under the Lord's wing as a child of God. And I believe those who are even searching for him are under his wing in a different way, perhaps. But remember who whose wing you are under. And then the second thing is to surround yourself with people who love you and and believe in, you know, the

the basic things that God calls us to and that we've already talked about that one is to go you know go into all the world so if what you're doing is spreading the good news of Jesus Christ or is spreading something that will enrich and strengthen people in your community then continue so when you have people who say yeah but you know we're gonna pray because you're not leaving yet

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (39:45)
you

Joleen Steel (39:45)
you know,

surround yourself with those people, you know, who love you and believe in what the mission is that is before you. So those would be the main two things for me. And I think the part of the first one that I just want to mention is spending time, you know, there's this idea that we just send up SOS prayers when we're in trouble. And those are fine. I've sent a lot of them.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (40:08)
Mm-hmm.

Joleen Steel (40:12)
But when you are under someone's wing, under someone's protection, don't you want to know them more? Don't you want to be closer to them? Don't you want to understand the way they think so that it informs the way that you act and behave? And so abiding in the shelter of the Lord God is for me essential. I'm not just grateful for the wing, you know, which I am.

but I am also saying, Hey, whose wing is this? It is the great God of the universe. And I am so grateful that I want to know what he thinks so that it informs how I act and behave and live out my life.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (40:57)
Absolutely beautiful. And I'm sure that absolutely blessed and inspired somebody who again is right at the edge of stepping into something great. They're about to speak to that one person. They're about to sing a song or write a book or create a ministry for that one person that is getting ready to change things for them. So let's talk a little bit about your project. If they want to get in touch with you, if they want to find out about camping stick kids, introduce it to their ministry, introduce it to their family. How do they get in touch with you?

Joleen Steel (41:27)
So you want to find us on several platforms. I would say of course there's our website, know, www.campingstickkids.org or .com. But we have YouTube videos that are fantastic for your family and for kids. So there's Draw It With Mrs. Steel videos, there's videos of me reading, we've got jokes, we've got podcasts for kids. There's just, it's all there on YouTube. And then.

When you go to our website, you will find all of our resources, including books that come with hiking sticks that also come with things your children can earn for their hiking sticks ⁓ so that they can travel with the gospel with them wherever they go.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (42:13)
Absolutely love it. And I'm sure they will be finding those resources. We'll make sure that the links are in the show notes. You can click them right now to find out more, but Jolyne, you've been an absolute pleasure. I love the fact that we have stayed connected, that you continue to inspire me and that we continue to connect in so many other ways, podcasting, ministry, and just enjoying life. And so I want to make sure that this is not the last time that you appear. So we will definitely have this connection with God in gigs and you'll be able to share more of what's happening.

in your wonderful ministry. But thank you so much for joining us today. It's been an absolute pleasure.

Joleen Steel (42:47)
Thank you, Allen. It's been a joy to be with you. And I really echo your feelings of this idea that the Lord puts us in each other's path to support and strengthen the ministry and the work that he's given us each to do. So thanks for the work that you do.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (43:02)
It was my pleasure. And a little quick shout out to those who came to that very first hat meetup that way. Private joke, just the last little part, private joke that we connected because of our love of hats. So maybe next time we'll do a podcast, we'll both be wearing the hats and people have to watch the video next time.

Joleen Steel (43:18)
I know, I'm like, we gotta wear our hats. Thank you so much, Allen