Identity or Idol? The Important Choice Every Christian Creator Must Make with Gail Saintil, God Arts

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (00:00)
Have you struggled to keep God at the center of your creator lifestyle? Have you wrestled with the tension of pursuing your creative goals without sacrificing your character? If so, this is the episode that will bless you and help you find answers. We're talking with the founder of God Arts, Gail Saintil. Her transparency and boldness will show you the way seek God while continuing to develop your creative life, all in the right framework. I'm Allen C. Paul, Host and Founder of God and Gigs. where we help you to become the creator that you were created to be. make sure to catch this entire episode so that you can be inspired and encouraged to keep your faith at the center of it all.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (00:46)
such a pleasure for me to welcome now to the God and Gig show. Gail Saintil. Hill, welcome to our show. How are you doing?

Gail Saintil (00:54)
Hi Allen, I'm kind of nervous, but I'm doing great.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (00:57)
I'm still confused why a expert, a podcaster creative like you is nervous appearing on someone else's show, but it is somewhat honoring that you, that you feel that this is such a high level that you should be nervous. You should not be. Absolutely should not be at all. But I always love to start these episodes with just making sure we get to the meat of who you are as a person. They're probably already read the bio. They heard the amazing things you've done in God art.

Gail Saintil (01:13)
Yes. ⁓

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (01:27)
but I want to get people to know you. What are those couple of things that you want people to know about you upon first meeting?

Gail Saintil (01:35)
I would say one, that I am a believer that I love Christ with all of my heart and with all of my might. And also I just categorize myself as a creative. I'm a graphic designer, I'm a wife, I'm a disciple. Sometimes I do podcasting, sometimes I host events. Like I'm just this creative who believes that every gift that God gives me, I'm just going to use it as an opportunity to spread his truth and to spread his light. And that's how I would introduce myself basically.

Just someone who loves the Lord and someone who is curious. I would describe myself as that.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (02:11)
I love this. Okay. And for those who are only listening, I have to let them know for the visual that you have the most vivacious, amazing personality, your hair, your, your like everything about you screams life and have fun and be like curious. I do believe God gives you this kind of sense where we understand what you're about just by the way you carry yourself and by the way that

You you handle the world and the way you walk through the world, God gives you like that uniqueness. And that's something that I think we both understand about creatives. And now I'm going to go right to the meat of this. This is one of those things that I know we're going to dig into the weeds right away is the whole topic of creative. The, am I a creative? Like does someone who is a plumber or a doctor or a lawyer

Gail Saintil (02:51)
Mmm.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (02:58)
not get to share that term with you. So I would love to dig into this right away because you just said it's part of your identity as a graphic designer. But what would you say makes you a creative? Is it your skills? Is it the fact that you love to do this? Or is it something you feel is more innate that God puts in all of us? And maybe we just to varying degrees understand that.

Gail Saintil (03:03)
Yeah.

I think it's something that God puts in all of us. think sometimes we can just focus on, because for me, particularly, I focus on like the arts, like the creative arts and things like that. But I think everybody has a level of creativity that's placed inside of them. For one, God created us to be each individual people and we all have strengths. You get what I'm saying? So it doesn't necessarily have to, I think everyone has some type of level of uniqueness.

and

It doesn't necessarily have to be the arts, if that makes sense. Am I making sense? So if God gave you a gifting to be like a manager, if God gave you a gifting to be like administrative, that's something that's creative. I don't have the capability of, that's not my gifting that the Lord gave me. You know, I would say that I'm more of a dreamer. Like I have all these dreams and then I need someone who is, who has an administrative gifting to be like, all right, that sounds nice, but how can you, logistically speaking, how can this work?

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (03:56)
Absolutely.

Gail Saintil (04:21)
So I think everybody has a gift that the Lord has placed inside of them is just asking the Lord to guide you and show you what it is specifically. If that makes sense.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (04:30)
I love that answer.

It does make perfect sense. And so now we get to turn it to you. Now that you've kind of explained like, you know, like that's the viewpoint that you bring to this, right? Now, how did you learn and start to discover your individual creative gift? Was it in school? Was it the first time that a teacher said, you're good at this or good at that? What was that first spark that said, not only do you enjoy it, but you want to do this like as a living, as a profession.

What was the thing that made you want to dive into this full time?

Gail Saintil (05:01)
You know, for me, I like to always tell my friends that the arts, I didn't look for the arts, but the arts found me. Like when I was young and I would say it started off, it's a part of my testimony, so I'll start it off from the beginning. ⁓ When I was young, my parents used to put me in a dance and drama program, not because they saw it like a gifting in me per se, it was because they needed something for me to do after school. And it was just, and there was like, okay, so there's this program. I'm just gonna put my daughter in it.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (05:08)
Hmm.

Gail Saintil (05:31)
And you know, I was dancing, but you know, I was being a kid. It was just like another opportunity for me to just have fun with my friends. And one of my visual art teachers, his name was Mr. Frank. I don't know what he saw in me in elementary school. He gathered a group of us and he basically helped me build my portfolio without me realizing I was building my portfolio. Like he noticed that I was good at drawing. He noticed that maybe...

when I was drawing in the class that he saw a in my eyes and he just helped me build my portfolio. And after that, I got into the visual arts program. And when I continued to be a part of the visual arts program, I realized that this is something that I really enjoy doing. So it wasn't something that I was looking for per se. It was something that I would say that someone saw that in me and helped cultivate that in me and then now, you know.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (06:17)
Got it.

Gail Saintil (06:25)
many years later, this is just something that I just find joy in. So it's really interesting to see how God can guide you even when you think you know what you're doing, but God is like, actually, I want you to go in this direction. And looking back now, I don't know where I would have been if it wasn't for that art teacher who saw that in me. ⁓ And that's basically how I got into it.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (06:49)
I love this and I love the fact that you point to the people, right? That God puts in your place. I'm thinking about that scripture where the Bible says, be careful that you're not entertaining angels unaware. And I do feel like, you know, without being super spiritual, those people are like, kind of like, you know, your little angels guiding you toward the thing before you. Like you said, you're young, you don't know what you're going to do with your life. But these people are helping kind of like give you those guideposts that, hey, lean more into this, you know.

Gail Saintil (07:00)
Hmm.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (07:17)
pursue this, check this out. And now what I love about this is that you have become that person to other creatives, especially, and this is where I want to go right now in terms of the connection between your arts and your faith, because that's a very specific passion. That's a very specific thing that you and I share of helping Christian creatives, people who love God. So where did that passion, that desire?

come from because that's something I think that could only be from God to say, not only do I want to be an artist, but I don't want to help other artists find their God given passion in this way to pursue God at the same time. Like, where did that come from?

Gail Saintil (07:48)
Yeah.

I think that also happened organically as well. So like I said, I was in visual arts in middle school. I also was in visual arts in high school. And you know, when you're in high school, you have to make that big decision. Do you go to a visual arts school or do you do something practical? have Haitian parents, so they're very like, you have to be lawyer, doctor, nurse. Don't go to art school. And I wasn't that type of kid that was rebellious towards my parents.

And what they said did make logical sense. So I decided to stay in the States and do something that was like more centered on the medical degree. But if I was honest, I was upset. So it was like, I made the logical decision, but I was upset with God because I was like, why didn't you give me this young person's rebellious spirit, which I could just be like, I'ma show you, you know what I'm saying? And then I just go to art school and then just do whatever. But I was upset with the Lord for a good amount of time. And

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (08:43)
Hahaha

Gail Saintil (08:52)
I reached a breaking point where it was like I couldn't carry all of this anger inside of me anymore. So I went to the Lord in the altar and I just gave everything to the Lord. I gave all of my gifting to the Lord. said, God, like help me to not, because the caveat to when you learn creativity when you're young is that that forms your identity in a sense.

Like if that's all you was taught when you were youngest to be a creative, when that opportunity, you missed that opportunity, you kind of feel like, I don't know who I am anymore. Like I morphed my creative gifting with me. So when it was separated, it was kind of like, I didn't know who I was outside of being a creative. So the Lord helped me to build back myself outside of my creative gifting. And as my thank you to him, I decided to do the same thing with my

with my creativity like, Lord, you helped me build my identity outside of creating. So because I love you so much, I'm going to also encourage other Christian creatives to make sure that you don't morph the two into one. Like there is two separate. You are a child of God who also have a creative gifting. It's not one, if that makes sense.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (10:09)
⁓ gosh, this is super important. We could do an entire workshop series. Just we could dig into this for the entire season of a show, just so people could really get this because I think I know I've suffered from this. I know I have had to learn over my, I'll give up my age, my 50 years. I've had to maybe the last 10 finally come to grips with that. Can you imagine?

how many years I've spent feeling like I was trapped in a creative's body that also had to please God through this only one way, right? And not realizing that he loved me without my creative talent. So that is a message that will free some people. So I want to definitely piggyback right onto that in terms of your own journey. You said you started to figure that out, right? That you were a creative, but you were also a child of God and that these things were not, they didn't tie together.

Gail Saintil (10:55)
Mmm.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (11:08)
So were there any obstacles or moments that you also felt that tension? Was it in pursuing your own career that you felt any tension of, wait, God, you called me to be this, or you called me to be that, or any other way where your particular artists platform, where you felt like these things don't seem to be matching up.

Gail Saintil (11:29)
⁓ In the beginning stages, I wouldn't say that there was tension because honestly, I was just trying to seek the Lord because I was so broken that it was just like, okay, God, nothing else matters at the moment. I'm just going to seek the Lord. And then afterwards, ⁓ when I noticed that, okay, now I can use my creative gifting to give God the glory. Let me see if I can find any other platforms that, you know, where Christians and creative can morph together. Because at the time,

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (11:38)
Okay.

Gail Saintil (11:58)
I was this, I was very spunky. I had like red hair. I was very bubbly personality and the church I went to was extremely conservative. And I just wanted to find other creatives who had the same heart posture as me and I couldn't find it. And so I was like, okay, since I can't find it, let me just gather a couple of creatives. First off, I didn't even know a lot of people, but I was like, let me see if I can just create an event where it's just like,

people who love the Lord, people who also love performing and doing creative arts. And let's just get together. And I didn't know anybody. I didn't have no skills with doing art events. I just reached out to people on Instagram, hey, you know, this is my name. I'm planning on doing this event. And then people showed up. So in the beginning, there wasn't much tension per se. ⁓ There was a little bit of tension when...

I'm trying to think of a time when there was tension.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (12:57)
could be even in terms of the obstacles that you realize that this isn't as easy. Cause you know what I think that's what I feel like. I know with God and gigs, it became where like, okay, God, I didn't expect this to be easy, but I also didn't expect it to be like this. You know I mean? So I just think that like the difference between the reality and expectation for creators oftentimes is our biggest struggle for me, I'll say. And so I would love to know in your case, where did those things where it's like, okay, like it seems like.

Gail Saintil (13:09)
Mmm.

Mmm, okay.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (13:26)
You had this idea, and I love the fact that we're digging into this, by the way, because all of us have to start things, right? So as you started it, it's almost like I feel like you had so much confidence and maybe, correct me if I'm wrong, you had so much confidence that, hey, whatever happens, we're just going to make it happen, that you didn't feel like, hey, if this didn't go exactly right, that you were just going to turn around and just give it up. I don't feel like, I don't hear that sense from you.

Gail Saintil (13:32)
Yum.

Yeah. And I think it's because I didn't really have any expectations. Like if only three people showed up, I would have been satisfied with that because I, I, I really desired community and I wasn't focusing. I wasn't focused on making an event successful. If that makes sense. I just wanted to find two or three people to make me not feel like I'm crazy that I just love the Lord and I love to create. And so I feel the tension right now. I feel like I'm experiencing the tension now.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (13:57)
You

Yeah, yeah.

Okay

Gail Saintil (14:21)
If that makes sense, because now it's like.

In the past, I was focused on gathering Christian creatives together so we can network together. Now I feel like the Lord is asking me to focus more on our heart's posture instead of us just focusing only on our creative craft. So I think the tension for me now is like, am I just doing creative works just to do it? Or is this something that the Lord is asking me to do?

In the past, I never really asked the Lord, what is it you want me to specifically do? So now the tension, I'm balancing the tension of how is it that I can create a community of Christian creatives, one, but also like focusing on the posture of our hearts and making sure that we really consider the Lord in everything that we are doing and every creative gift that we are pushing out there or whatever creative project that we have.

So that's the tension that I'm having now is like focusing on my character as well as focusing on, you know, whatever projects that I have that I feel like the Lord wants me to push out.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (15:28)
Ooh,

now this is so important. I love the fact that you are willing to know more and be vulnerable about this because it is not easy as much as creatives tend to share. You said it yourself, our art is out there. Our product, our outward appearance is for everyone to see. And we kind of want to call that vulnerability. When the real vulnerability is what you just described, which comes from my favorite scriptures from Psalm 51 to six, which

Gail Saintil (15:52)
Mm.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (15:58)
where David is admitting, hey, I messed up. And then he says, you desire a truth in the inward parts and then the hidden part, you will make me know wisdom. And he's like, yeah, God, here's the real thing. I'm king, I'm the messed up, but now you figured all the elements, so let me just fess up, right? And so that inner character of an artist is where I think, I remember one of the first books I read, Gail, I love we're talking shop like this, but again, like two creators who have created communities.

Gail Saintil (16:07)
Hmm.

Yeah.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (16:27)
who have to be honest about the struggle of now you, and I've said this before to other people, you're not saying you're a pastor, but in a sense, caring about people's heart puts you in a pastoral role. And that's a heavy burden to think about, hey, I gotta tell these artists, hey, you gotta be careful, you gotta check your heart, you gotta be aware of.

Gail Saintil (16:27)
Hmm.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (16:51)
you know, what God is really leading you to. And if he asks you to sacrifice something on the altar that you thought you wanted to do for the rest of your life, you're the one that's now got to say that. So I can understand why that could seem like not necessarily maybe attention was the wrong word, but you do feel a good kind of burden of responsibility. Is that a good way to say it?

Gail Saintil (17:00)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I would say that. Yeah, definitely a burden of responsibility. And I also think if we're not careful, because it's very easy for us to do this, we can idolize our gifting as well.

in the beginning, I had to learn how to separate the two where I was just a child of God and I was a creative. I think sometimes without us even thinking, it can morph together again. And then we have to learn how to separate it one more time. And so for me personally, I knew that I was starting to idolize my gifting again. Like I was spending more time cultivating my gifts than I was spending time in the word. You know what I'm saying?

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (17:29)
Yes.

Separated again, okay.

Hmm.

Gail Saintil (17:50)
I think we have to really check our hearts when it comes to stuff like that, especially of us, especially us as Christian creatives. And that's just something I don't really think is talked about enough. Like there's just so much content out there on how to be successful, so much content on the practical things of how to do this and how to move, which is great. And I think we all need that, but the character also matters. You get what saying?

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (18:16)
100%.

Gail Saintil (18:17)
What

is the point of having all of this when you miss God in the process? So that's where I feel like the Lord is leading me now in this journey of creativity, I would say.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (18:23)
Yeah.

I love this. So

I guess the great question now for us to answer for ourselves individually, because we're both putting ourselves first, right? We're leading by example. Like, Hey, we are leading other artists and trying to explain, we're not trying to say we're, we have all the answers. We're like, here's how we're working this out. And here's a way that you can also work this out so that you can be transparent before the Lord and always make sure that your character and your relationship with him goes first before you worry about the doing right. Human being before human doing.

Gail Saintil (18:44)
Yeah.

Mmm.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (18:59)
So

I guess I would ask you, like, what are the practical things you're doing in terms of day to day? Is it prayer before you perform prayer before you create? it, you know, specialize, you know, your, your time in the word is certain times, like what's working for you right now to help you keep that balance.

Gail Saintil (19:16)
think I'm still learning. think one is asking God to give me the desire to read his word, because for some reason, whenever I want to read the Bible, it's like so much other distractions ⁓ that happens. And also asking God to give me the heart to want to seek him in everything. You know, like instead of me picking up a pen or instead of me...

recording this video or recording an interview, I have to ask the Lord, is this something that you want me to do? Like really having a conversation with God on a daily basis and in areas where you feel like you don't want to do it, ask God to give you the desire to do it, which is, which I think is super gracious of God to where I can have that conversation with him and say like, God, I really don't want to pray. I really don't want to read the Bible. I really

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (19:58)
Hmm.

Gail Saintil (20:09)
don't wanna do it. So I need you to give me the desire to seek you. And I think when you pray earnestly like that, God does give you the desire to, when you're watching TV, to turn off the TV and read the word. And so I would say that's a practical thing if you don't feel like you have the desire to want to ask God to give you the desire and he will, cause he's that gracious and he's that kind and he wants to spend time with you. ⁓

So I would say that's what's working for me now. Just being honest with God and saying, Hey, I know you're pushing. know you're tugging my heart to want to spend time with you, but to be honest, I don't want to. So I need you to, you know what I'm saying? Help your girl out a little bit.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (20:57)
Can I help

you? But I love the fact, one of my favorite messages from one of the pastors that came to our church was, again, not to change scripture at all, just to reframe it and look at scripture a different way. And we all have read many times, if you've been in church for any time, that, know, trust in the Lord, he will give you the desires of your heart, right? We've heard that.

Gail Saintil (21:09)
Hmm.

Yeah.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (21:21)
He said, okay, let's just say the same thing, but rephrase in terms of like just the phrasing of it. Trust in Lord, follow him with all your heart, delight in the Lord, and he will give you the desires.

Gail Saintil (21:31)
Mmm.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (21:33)
of your heart and just pausing there and just saying, give me the desires is what I just heard from you. Period. Just give me the desires and then they go into your heart. But like you just said it, you didn't know you want to be an artist until God showed you he wanted to be an artist. So why wouldn't he do the same thing with his word and with prayer? It's like, hey, let me show you that my my, you know, this is sweeter than honey than a honeycomb.

Gail Saintil (21:34)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Mmm.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (22:01)
Let

me show you how good this is. So we don't know how good it is until he shows us how good it is. Right. So I love this picture. I love this picture. This is what happens when you, by the way, when, when artists like us get together, we just like ping pong off each other. Like, Hey, this is, this is beautiful. So I do want to get into this other side though. You mentioned it because this is the, again, like the, balancing act we're doing, right? God, what's my character got? What's my heart. But then also he gave me gifts.

Gail Saintil (22:06)
Yeah, 100%.

Yeah, yeah.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (22:28)
and he expects

me to be good steward of these gifts. So I guess the second half of this question is what's working for you in the creative side now that you're working on your heart and your heart posture, what's working for you in terms of now integrating that, I integrate, let's change the word, pursuing the creative side of you and making sure that you're also letting that continue to grow and to cultivate and stuff like that. So what's helping you in that area?

Gail Saintil (22:44)
Mm-hmm.

I think I just have people who I aspire, people who I see the way they move, I guess. I use it as inspiration. I always see things as an opportunity to learn. Like no matter what I'm watching or no matter who I'm having a conversation with, I'm always like absorbing information. I feel like that's one of my gift things, just absorb. And if you're like, okay, God, how can I use this? So I always...

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (23:18)
You

Gail Saintil (23:24)
I listen to podcasts, I go to different creative events and I just absorb whatever information that they have. I always find an opportunity to learn something new. I never see myself as someone who's an expert. I always see myself as a child, I would say. A child in the sense of like, young children, always see something as fascination. They always have this level of curiosity. And...

I always try my best to move in that way. Like I never move in a way where I feel like I know everything because in reality I don't. And so those are the practical things that I do. Like when it comes to me painting, I always find new opportunities or new ways to paint or with graphic design or ways to do podcasting or ways to host events. just, whatever it is that I learn, I just try to implement it into my own life.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (23:57)
Hmm.

Okay. Yes. I love this so much. Now I want us both again, you're the, you are the center of attention at this time. Like you said, you were nervous about it, but I love to make you a little bit of the expert in this case, which is finding and cultivating community. You have cultivated and successfully created a community at Got Arts, right? So I think that is something that is, is fair to say you can show the way to someone.

Gail Saintil (24:28)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (24:44)
who is maybe like you, didn't have anyone in their church, didn't have in their local area, like didn't know where to go and where to find it. So let's help that person because they are also looking for Christian community and maybe they could connect with us virtually, but they're in another geographic location, right? So what would you say to the person who is searching for creative community, creative Christian community, in terms of how you built it?

What would you say to that person? Say, hey, here's how you can start to find this and maybe even build something of your own if you don't have connection with someone already.

Gail Saintil (25:18)
Yeah, I would say in a physical level, if you're at a church, talk to people. Like you'd be surprised of how much people that you ⁓ encounter with your church who also have the same desires as you. And for someone who is slightly injured like me, it feels very weird to do. But get plugged into a community. Like if your church has like small groups, get connected to small groups.

But if your church is like mine, where my church was predominantly older folks, there wasn't much younger people who was there, reach out to them on social media if you have social media. I connected with people just through DMs, you hey, I'm a Christian, you're a Christian, I love create, you're a Christian, I see that you post your creative stuff, let's connect, let's have coffee, you know, let's meet together. And then just gradually the community just forms because

you're not alone in feeling that way. Everyone else also feels that way, especially if they don't have a community that they can connect with. So even the reaching out to me, if someone reached out to me, I would be like, my gosh, yes, someone feels exactly like how I feel. You get what saying? So even though it sounds intimidating to reach out to people, you'll be surprised the people who you connect with, like majority of the people who I know, I just connected through Instagram, just through a DM or

a friend of a friend of someone who I messaged through DM. So you have to be the one to step out and reach an extended hand and say, hey, do you feel this way? I would love to connect with you or go to a creative arts event that's around your community if you can find it. So I think you just have to just take the initial step. And I wanna also add, if you've done all of those things and you still feel like, I've done all those things, I tried to reach out to people.

I don't have anybody in my church. Pray to the Lord about it. Like, He's gonna surround you with people who is going to cultivate you in that area. So I would say that those are those top three things, even though it sounds kind of cheesy. But I feel like those three things are like the typical things because it works for me.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (27:28)
No, would say

exactly. I love the fact that this is one of the things as soon as you mention prayer and we've heard this again in one of those cliches, that's also very true. Instead of making prayer your last resort, make it your first response. Like we just said it, if God gave you the desire of your heart and he knows that as a creative, you're not built to be alone. He said, it's not good for man to be alone. That wasn't just for marriage, right? That was for community.

Gail Saintil (27:41)
Yeah, yeah.

huh.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (27:52)
He will also supply the people around you that would help you build up both your faith and your creative gifting because you can't do this alone. So I love the fact that we are starting from the get go. Hey, pray about this. Ask the Lord who are the people that you will surround me with so that I can do what you've called me to do. Because again, we said it starts from the heart. So if your heart is not to be famous, but your heart is to bless others, then of course, again, he's no good thing. Will he withhold from his children?

Gail Saintil (28:16)
Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (28:22)
We

have to believe that he won't do that. He will not withhold a good thing. Now it may not be a good thing you'll get right today, right? But he's not going to withhold it overall because he's a good father. So I love that we're going back to that. And I love that. In fact, again, you used to practical love. Yeah, we got social media now. Like, you know, thank God we do have ways to connect with people that don't necessarily have to be like, you know, your next door neighbor and picking and going and knocking on the door, which would be much more intimidating. Right.

Gail Saintil (28:47)
Yeah.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (28:49)
So I love the fact that you did this. I also want to ask about your vision for God Arts, because in your community, you have cultivated this connection and you've done live events and you've done things like this, but it seems like God is just like continuing to, as you mentioned, change it to where it's more about the character and the heart. So what do you see as a vision for God Arts in the next, I don't know, year, two years? What do you think God is leading that, platform?

Gail Saintil (28:54)
Hmm.

I think I'm still processing where God wants me to go with it. I think in the past, it was just me trying to find, trying to create a community for Christian creatives to come together, which is still a part of it as well. But I feel like the Lord wants me to do more like deep soul work with the Christian creatives, but I'm still trying to figure it out. pray for me so I can figure it.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (29:46)
This is what we're here for. We are here to, again, you know, bear each other's burdens and so fulfill the law of Christ, right? Like I need to know what what what God needs. You need to know what God gives needs. Like that's how we fulfill the law of Christ by actually knowing, like you said, the community sharing, being vulnerable and saying what's going on. So I love this conversation. And one of the things I want to make sure we touch on before we have to let you go is just

Gail Saintil (29:51)
Yeah!

Mm-hmm. ⁓

Yeah.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (30:12)
the high points of where God has taken you. Because we talk a lot about the struggles, like we talk about how God rescues us and has delivered us. And those are the moments that, you know, he steps in. But then there are the mountain top moments, right? There are the moments that you're like, this is why I do this. This is what reveals how amazing God is and how he's really fulfilling his word. And so I would love for you to mention any mountain top moment in God arts, any mountain top moment, even in your own

a creative career where you were like, this is what's possible when I follow him with obedience and all the posture that you talked about by following him with all your heart. just give us one of those mountaintop moments that maybe you realized where everything was working.

Gail Saintil (30:46)
Yeah

I feel like the mountain top moments for me is after I've done all the planning for the events and people actually show up. And then I'm like, oh, this is like a thing. And it's crazy because every time I host events, like I said, I always expect one or two people because I'm just trying to connect. But when we have panel discussions where we talk about our struggles, where people walk out of the events and they say that they've been impacted by it they've been encouraged by it, I think those are...

mountain top moments for me because the whole process of me hosting events, I'm uncomfortable. Like reaching out to people through Instagram feels cool, but physically them coming up and I'm having conversations with them and I'm coordinating the events and I have to be on stage to talk. I don't want to be on stage to talk. I'd rather be, you know, behind the scenes where nobody knows who I am. In the beginning stages when I did God Arts, was majority behind the scenes. Like no one really knew who I was.

specifically and so when people walk out of the events and they reach out to me and they say, I just want to let you know that I was really impacted by this. That's when it's like, okay, then it was all worth it. Me being obedient to the Lord, even though I felt uncomfortable during the process. But if God gets the glory and someone walks out with practical advice and spiritual advice where they feel like they are more confident now when they walk out into the world, then that's a high moment for me.

And even if it's one or two people who walk out that way, I just feel like I did the Lord's work.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (32:30)
Well, I love the fact that again your heart is for the artist the creative that is coming in not for your again I know you're being blessed by this I know that God is elevating you but like you're you're blessed to be a blessing that's that's your heart posture a hundred percent I could see it and I just want to mention for people who don't realize hey look you were putting on events during what we have down in South Florida art by Basil which is Your this was not a small event. This is not just you were going in like this is like

Gail Saintil (32:52)
Yeah, during our Basel.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (32:59)
all of the artists of the world just like descending on this one place. And you were willing to put out an outpost in the middle of that. So I don't want you to like sugarcoat that or make or dismiss it. Like that was a huge leap of faith that you took that made a huge impression on me and other artists. So I want to make sure that, know, publicly to say that wasn't small potatoes.

Gail Saintil (33:19)
thanks. It was very intimidating, I'm not going to lie. But, you know, I think it's important for us to be a light in a space like that, because when I grew up in the arts world, even talking about Jesus Christ is like, girl, nobody want to hear about Jesus Christ, especially in the visual arts community. And so I just knew that there was just Christians who just wanted to find a space where both worlds could exist in both worlds.

could collide and what better timing to do that when it's the most hugest show in Miami. You know what I'm saying? So it's all God to be honest. And I'm just as shocked as everyone else as they're witnessing these things, but God gets the glory at end of the day.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (34:08)
I love this. So before we go, I want to make sure that you think about and talk to the person who is where you were. It could be the young lady or young man in a school or in the church where he's not quite sure of whether he should pursue this artistic bent. He feels like this kind of pull on his heart or she feels like, my gosh, I really love to do this, but I can't find anybody. So what would you say to yourself? Now that you know what you know.

Gail Saintil (34:35)
Mm-hmm.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (34:35)
that's,

I don't know, maybe it can put you in that school or maybe right before that when your parents were saying, go to law school, what would you say to yourself now that you know what you know so you can encourage somebody else who is where you were?

Gail Saintil (34:49)
⁓ I would say one, pray is going to sound very cheesy, but I would say there's going to be a lot of outside noise. A lot of people want you to do a lot of things, you know, and it's obviously some of it is based off of logic. Other things is based off of fear, but pray, you know, ask God, Lord, is this something that you want me to do? And if he says no, it's okay. Like it's not going to be the end of the world.

God is gonna guide you in the direction where he wants you to be in. That's what I feel like I needed to hear. Because I thought it was gonna be the end of the world if I didn't go to the visual arts community because the people who surrounded me made it sound like, if you don't do this, career over, life over. And that's not the reality, I would say, that I face personally. So I would say pray, ask God.

what direction that you want me to go to. It's okay to seek counsel. know, sometimes the counsel can be conflicting, which is what I experienced. But I would say that even if you do miss out on this opportunity that you see as something great that God can still use you. Like your life will not be over if you miss out on an amazing opportunity. God will still get the glory out of it at the end of the day. It is not the end of the world, I would say.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (36:15)
That's gonna help somebody's heart right now. Cause I know that feeling the same thing, which is like, if this doesn't happen, know, God, God, God clearly is not guiding me and he's true. He's guiding you the entire time. He's just, you know, one of my favorite scriptures, Psalm 25 and 10, all the paths of the Lord are full of mercy and truth. And I've always loved the fact of that plural P-A-T-H-S. There's more than one path. He guides you through all of them.

Gail Saintil (36:16)
You

Mmm.

Yeah, yeah.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (36:43)
but he's always walking around one lap into your feet and a light into your path. So Gail, I'm telling you, I hope this is not the last time. We have got to make sure that our two communities continue to connect. We are too close together. We got to go out there and get coffee. Just like you mentioned, our first guiding gigs socials were coffees. So we got to make sure we get coffee sometime and just continue to connect. But for those who are following you, how can they connect with you in Goddard to stay connected with you on the socials and everywhere else on the internet?

Gail Saintil (37:10)
Definitely, I'm definitely open to coffee. But you can reach out to us on all of our platforms at We Are God Arts, ⁓ G-O-D-A-R-T-S at the end, ⁓ on all of the platforms. And then you can reach out to me on all social media. I am Gail Saintil. Till.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (37:30)
Well, you guys, please make sure you follow her. And again, this is a collaboration and a connection to community. We just talked about it. The fact that we are built to be a community with other Christian creatives. It's why, know, Gail, I'm so glad you found the God in Geek Show whenever it was. I think you were driving or something and you said you had to pull it. So I am so glad that God brought us together. And this is just the beginning of what will continue to be a collaboration to help people like the ones that are listening and watching right

Gail Saintil (37:47)
Yes!

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (37:58)
So thank you so much for being on the show.

Gail Saintil (38:00)
Thank you for having me.