Famous or Fulfilled? How To Identify What Really Matters w/ Dontaniel Jamel Kimbrough, Producer

Allen C. Paul 0:00

Imagine if I told you you could become a Grammy Award winning producer, director, composer that everyone was calling on and you were flying at the height of your success. But now imagine that I told you you would have to fight through being unknown, being forgotten, and even facing financial and creative devastation that even affected your family. Would you be able to fight through it? Would you be able to build the character inside to become not just a great creative, but a great person, someone that loves God, stays committed to your church, and is able to see all of that integrated into a significant and beautiful, fulfilled creative life. If you'd like that, you have to listen to every single moment of this interview with my guest today, Dontaniel, aka Jamel Kimbrough. Now, his musical work with gospel music artist Todd Delaney has landed him at number one on the top billboard charts for the incredibly popular song, Your Great Name. But that's not where the story ends. It actually ends and starts with so much more that he's going to share with you on how to build an impactful, creative, and spiritual life and what it takes to not just get to the top, but get there the right way and stay there. So, my friend, you've got to listen to every moment of this interview. Give me just a moment to welcome those of you who are new to our show, and then we'll get right into this incredible discussion.

Voiceover 1:32

Artists, musicians, and creatives of all kinds looking for help balancing your passion to create with your everyday life? Not sure if your faith can coexist with your profession? Welcome to a place where real artists discuss real life. You're listening to the God and Gig Show. Visit godandgigs.com for show notes, links, and more information.

Allen C. Paul 1:54

Hello and welcome to our show. Thank you so much for making this podcast a part of your creative day. And if you are new to God and Gigs, you are in the right place at the right time. And let me tell you why. First, let me introduce myself quickly. My name is Alan C. Paul. I'm a musician, author, and creative coach. We founded God and Gigs way back in 2015 and 16. And since then, we've been helping to transform creatives from the inside out by solving their temporary creative problems with timeless spiritual principles. We do that through our podcast. We have our blog and our website at guideandgigs.com, all of our socials, and we have a membership platform called Guide and Giggs360, where highly motivated creatives get together weekly and monthly to motivate each other and get even more intensive and incredible training from each other and from our resources. So that's what we do here. You're in the right place. You found your tribe, especially as a musician, artist, creative, content creative, freelancer, any place within the arts and entertainment space, and you most likely have that Christian faith-focused foundation, but you probably also do stuff outside of it. Hence the name, God and Gigs. Well, my friend, whether you have been following our show for a long time or you are new to our show, you have picked an amazing episode to join us with. And our guest is going to bless you incredibly. Now you may not recognize his first name because he hasn't used it as often, but now we want to make sure he gets his proper introduction. Daniel Jamel Kimbrough, also known as Jamel Kimbrough, has been a leading gospel music producer, director, composer, songwriter, and musician for years, and he has been at the forefront of some of the biggest gospel hits in this decade. Now, working alongside stellar nominee and dove and Grammy winner Todd Delaney, he hit number one on the Billboard charts with his song Your Great Name. So if you've heard that song, you have heard Jamel Kimbrough's work. But that's not all that you've heard. He's also worked with artists like Benita Jones, Travis Green, Nicole C. Mullen, Tamala Mann, Donald Lawrence. I mean, the list goes on and on. And so that is what, you know, the resume would say. But what he would tell you and what he's about to tell you is not just how he achieved great heights in the gospel and the music industry, but more importantly, how he became the man that has the character to stick with things, even when things go wrong. When you hear the story of how he came out of some devastating setbacks and was able to still hold on to his dream, how he was able to build a family and to build a life that he's proud of and his dreams and aspirations to be a mentor to other musicians, you're going to see that the resume is not as important as having a life that is dedicated to serving your church, serving your family, and serving your community with your gifts. And I can't say it any better than what D'Antanian's about to tell you. So I'm going to stop right there and just make sure that you remember to save this episode. When you hear all these nuggets and gold mine type of ideas and mindsets, you're going to want to make sure that you send this to somebody else. So without any further delay, I am so pleased to present to some and introduce to others D'Antagno Jamel Kimberough. Ladies and gentlemen, I cannot tell you how excited, honored, and pleased I am to have this brother, producer, songwriter, but more importantly, someone is committed to doing things right in his family, in his faith, and in his creative life. And I'm going to get like the you know the movie says, his mama named him Cassius. I'm going to call him Cassius. His mama named him Dontaniel, so I'm going to call him Dontaniel. Dontaniel, Jamel Kimbrough. Welcome to the God and Gigs show. How are you doing, sir?

Dontaniel J. Kimborough 6:07

Alan, great to be here, my brother. God and Gigs. I love this platform. I mean, this is the heart of who I am. And so I'm just honored that I'm I'm even sitting here speaking with you.

Allen C. Paul 6:18

It's absolutely a pleasure. I've been, we've been already chopping it up from the very get-go. I mean, I've seen your spirit, I've seen your work, heard your work, played your work. You know, there's not a single musician in the gospel or the contemporary Christian movement that has not been touched by some way by what you've done. But, you know, we want to get beyond just what you do and get to who you are. That's really why I wanted you on the show. Um, you we could talk about your, you know, they probably already heard on the intro your accomplishments. All of that obviously matters, but you know, this is an opportunity, I think, for people to hear the heart behind the music and what you've created comes from who you are. So this is the hard, this is the hard part. I always do this at the beginning. It's I don't know why we start like this, but everybody does the whole 30-second elevator pitch at the beginning. So, so I'll I'll ask you like this though. I'll try to change it a little up a little bit. When people meet you for the first time, what is the most important thing that you want them to know about you if they don't get all the resume stuff?

Dontaniel J. Kimborough 7:18

Well, I want them the first thing I want them to know is I'm approachable. You can talk to me, you can, you can ask me anything. I am not what you call Hollywood. So I'm sure you've met quote unquote Hollywood musicians and producers and artists. And that's the first thing I want you to see. I want you to see that I'm approachable, that I'm human, that I'm a man, I bleed, I cry, I weep, I need things just like you. And so, number one, I I first impressions matter to me, you know, and I'm careful about that first impression, whether it's with a pastor, you know, uh uh uh I mean anyone. I'm just careful about that first impression, you know. So that's the very first thing I want you to know about me is that you can talk to me. I'm human. I'm not gonna disregard who you are because I don't know you. You know, you might be somebody I need to know, you know. So I won't disregard that. You know what I mean?

Allen C. Paul 8:13

It's absolutely powerful, man. The fact that you want people to know from the get-go that you're open to them, that there's not this closed door kind of I sit high, I look low thing. I mean, the Bible talks about that all over the place, right? You know, yeah, about being being humble and then God exalts you. And then, like you just said, what's so powerful about this, we're already kind of digging into it, is that you're open to that relationship first. That the relationship um really builds who you are because it's part of who you are, and everything you've built. I guess I could say this from the get-go, from your obviously when I was again I kind of stalked on social media, your emphasis on family and your emphasis on being approachable with the creatives and the people in your life seems to have been like your DNA. Is that true? Like relationships really is that part of your DNA, both in your professional and your personal life?

Dontaniel J. Kimborough 9:03

Absolutely. And and I'll go back and I'll give that a little bit of context, you know, like identity is huge, you know. And if if you followed me and you kind of know my story, identity has been sort of a struggle for me because, you know, I was adopted and I was adopted by an awesome man of God who's a pastor who really taught me everything I know, you know. But if you understand um genetics and how you're built from the inside, your biological situation is still gonna affect you. It's you can't run away from it. It doesn't matter what you have in place of what you're missing, that does not matter. You know, you're still gonna seek some sort of validation. And, you know, and I took that struggle that I've had and I said, okay, I feel like God has given me the gift of music as a vehicle because that that's that's the vehicle. But what I'm supposed to do is mentor people through the struggles that I've had. So I found God sending me young men that struggle with uh uh uh absence of their biological fathers. And every every young guy that's been around me had issues, even my own stepchildren. I have stepchildren, you're not stepchildren, my yeah, my stepchildren, I'm sorry. My wife had two boys, and so even with them, they struggle with the same thing that I've struggled with all of my life. And God just sends me those people. So I realized that He blessed me enough to give me a gift that I'm noticed so that now I'm approachable so that I can do my real job.

Allen C. Paul 10:40

Oh, okay. I was not ready for this five minutes in. I was not ready, Daniel. Okay, all right. Let's how do I break how how do we how do we break this down? Okay, so God, I'm gonna God gave you a gift. You just said that. I I heard the story. Um, we may have to have you tell the story because some people are hearing it for the first time. Uh how that incredible moment where you you you got into this through church, through your father. You just mentioned your stepfather who who took you into this environment of worship, environment of church, environment of where your creative gift was called upon in an instant. Instant. But you're saying that's not your real. I mean, God blessed you to be on Grammy Award winning and double award winning and being stages in in London and everywhere. But you're saying the most important thing is not that.

Dontaniel J. Kimborough 11:31

It's not that, it's not that, Alan. And I thought that. I thought, like, God, this is what you have me here to do. Thank you. I thank you that I'm in my call and I'm walking in in what you've called me to do on this earth. And I'm like, yeah, I'm doing my music, I'm I'm noticed, I'm doing this, and I'm, you know, but that is not why I'm here. And I realize that as God sent me people and the people that are a part of my life, they have a need that I can meet. And only, mostly only I can meet, you know, and it's just, it's just so it's just so surreal that, you know, I I use the opportunity of music to help people and and and and cultivate people as a man. I always say this, you're a human before you're a musician, you know. So that's why I treat people the way that I treat them. I don't treat you based upon your skill level, you know, because that's not how you are. Your skill level is not who you are. You know, that's just your ability, you know? And so I don't treat people based on their skill level, and I see that all the time. You know what I mean? And that's one thing that I despise about our musicians. We have to, you know, we have to understand, like, we are human before we are anything. We are men of God and women of God before we are our instruments. That is just a pure gift that God has given us, and we should not take that as a platform to treat people any kind of way. As you can see, Alan, I got a passion for that.

Allen C. Paul 12:59

Yes, no, I'm letting it pour out, please, sir. Teach us and help. I gotta hit, I gotta, I gotta hit this because so much is coming through. But I do wonder because we are literally speaking to our tribe, the creators, musicians, people who create for a living or for a passion, right? And I'm wondering, maybe you can help it, help us. Why do you think that is? There's other people that do other amazing things. God has gifted all these people with gifts and talents and in their careers and you know, vocations. Why do you think it is that in music specifically and maybe just creative life in general, the people you work with, the people you're around, why do you think that gets ahead of being a person? I don't know if every banker or every plumber leads with, this is who I am, and therefore I can treat people differently. Do you think there's some reason that we get that that you just described?

Dontaniel J. Kimborough 13:53

Listen, that is, ooh, that's so good. I'm glad you said that because, like you said, I don't see bankers act this way. I don't, I don't see janitors or anybody else, like anybody works in an office, they don't act the way musicians act for some reason. And I think it's because, first of all, you know, if we go all the way back, we talked about the the master creator, you know, and we know who he was and we know what spirit he had, you know. So, and we're all born into sin, you know, and that's one sin that musicians are born into this sin of arrogance, this sin of I am better, I can do it better than you. I think it should go this way. We got that, honestly, we got that spirit from Lucifer.

Allen C. Paul 14:38

Wow, wow, look, this point, yeah. No, let's just call a spade a spade, right? Because it is. Yeah, because if if if we really look at it, even in terms of uh you being um you're in worship services, you're a musical director, you're in these areas where you see God being elevated, but at the same time you are working and worshiping and helping facilitate an atmosphere of worship, there's a lifting for everyone inside that position. And we can see, okay, let's not look at the devil. It's easy to point the finger at Lucifer. Let me put the finger at me. There is a moment in which I feel the lifting because I'm helping lift God up. I feel like now my platform, I'm on the platform too. Pastor's speaking too. I'm I'm part of this, I'm I'm bigger, I'm getting wider, and I'm starting to feel like I deserve what's happening in the room.

Dontaniel J. Kimborough 15:33

And I'm oh man, I'm just being I'm just being transparent. And that's the transparent we need. And and you know, that it's this feeling. You play keys, right? Yes. Okay, so there's there's a feeling that, you know, for me, I don't play my best as a musician. Just if you sit me down at a piano, I'll just okay, I got stuff. But I feel like I'm my best in in the in the atmosphere, in the moment where God is moving in the room. I feel like I'm my best musician because I'm sensitive to the room. But at that same time, we have to check ourselves because we know we have the control of the tone and the environ of that environment. Like we, you know, we could sit there and say, oh, because I played this chord, the room shifted in.

Allen C. Paul 16:15

You know, this whole shifting, oh man, don't get me started on the whole shifting atmosphere thing.

Dontaniel J. Kimborough 16:19

Don't get me started, you know, and that's what we do. We, oh, because I can play this chord because I've learned it, I've practiced it. I play this chord, I'm gonna shift the room. I've got control over the room. You know, that that's sad. And we honestly we don't realize it is very dangerous, Alan. Very, and we don't realize that we carry that spirit. You don't, we don't even understand that because, like I said, we were born into sin, and we don't realize that sin is just who we are, you know, and we have to check ourselves daily, almost every minute. You know, we have to say, okay, God, this is this isn't you, this is me right now. You know, and I have to check myself and every, and I do, as as as humble as I try to make sure that I am with everything, I always have to say, God, okay, hold on. I hope this is none of me, Lord, get rid of it, whatever that is. And I have to do that every day. Every time there's a recording that comes out that I produce that I thought that was so good, I have to check myself and say, okay, God, this wasn't even me. This was for you. I I fulfilled what you wanted me to do through this body of work. Let me sit back. You know, that's why you don't see me talk about what I do as much. I understand that I have to promote things and you have to do that, but I find it hard to do that.

Allen C. Paul 17:34

No, you you I you are walking that out. Because when I tell you, literally, I'm reading a bio right now, I had to go searching for you, sir. I just I just want to I was I just want to co-sign that because you have not led with this whole platform building. It doesn't mean that you aren't who you say you are or proud of what your work is. Like I get that. But literally, I have seen as I looked into your body of work, your work speaks for you, but you don't do a lot of speaking about your work.

Dontaniel J. Kimborough 18:03

No, no, because that's a that is a sense of that's where the the this the devil can get in there and and taint your your perspective of your your your your status here on earth. He can get in there and he can use your gifts and your accomplishments to make our musicianship feel like we're greater than that. So it goes back to what we initially started. You know, he'll give you things, he'll give you successes, and then we'll take those things and that'll become who we are. And that is just not the goal of Christ. You know, I want to look and sound and walk and talk like Christ. And you know, and he didn't boast. So I'm I'm not gonna do that. You know, I'm gonna boast in the Lord, and that's just what it is.

Allen C. Paul 18:46

Let another man praise you. I mean, that that that that verse, like it's it's so clear in scripture, and yet, yeah, thank you for breaking that down, especially again for us in this space, whether you work in the church or whether, and the same thing happens by let's make this very clear. We're not talking about just worship atmospheres, we're talking about any creative platform where you start to think that this is all about me. And especially, I want to pivot here, because your job as a producer generally is to be in the background, it generally is to make somebody else's music happen for them. And yet you just said you still have to check yourself, even when it's not your face on the album. Yep, you still have to make sure that you're keeping yourself in that humility, understand that you're serving versus you know trying to get glory for yourself.

Dontaniel J. Kimborough 19:35

Yeah, but I mean, because you work just actually, we work harder than the artists themselves. You know, we hear these trunk. You already know they'll never know.

Allen C. Paul 19:45

Look, they will never know. Look, the behind the scenes, the hours and hours and you just mentioned I don't know if it was on recording, that you're that you're in your uh working from home, and your wife or your children may not see you for for days in the same home because you are that dedicated, and all of that work, like you said, goes unseen. But that's you know, the artist comes in. Obviously, we give thank God for the artists who put their blood, sweat, and tears into this. But what you do behind the scenes can be double that.

Dontaniel J. Kimborough 20:13

Absolutely, because we become entitled and we become like, okay, this album is just as much mine as it is yours, because we've put that heart, that heart, that sweat, the tears, you know, we're we're physically connected to that body of work. And that goes for visual producers, that goes for graphic arts, that goes, that goes for any of us that that take on a project. That project becomes ours just as much, you know, because we put our heart and our time and we sacrifice family and we sacrifice friendships and you know, free time. Like, what is free time? My free time it does not exist.

Allen C. Paul 20:51

I'm I'm like, look at the calendar. I'll give you this. I I hate, I don't want to interject my own life into these, but this this perfect example is too good. We're at a comp at a business meeting with at our church just a couple days ago, and I'm sitting close to my pastors, and so we're going to the calendar for the year, and um my pastor's looked over at my calendar and she's like, are all those colors, is all that stuff in there? And I had my paper planner out, so I'm I'm copying from my paper to digital because I will get well. And I at that moment there was kind of like a maybe there should be some white space in here. No, these is what my wife has been complaining about that literally there is no space in my calendar. Oh my god. When you said no free time, look, you're you're preaching to the choir.

Dontaniel J. Kimborough 21:41

I'm I'm I gotta repent right here. That's right, because we have church work, and then we all also have our own, you know, uh work for ourselves. We're entrepreneurs, and you know, we have, and so we have to somehow, and this is something, you know, Alan. This this is something that I I try to preach to everybody. There was uh a pastor friend of mine back. Back years ago, maybe almost 20 years ago, and um not even 20 years ago, I would say, but he told me, you know, I was having a conversation about about um about balance, you know, and you know, and and and so he told me, let me see if I can get this right. He said, You'll never basically God, I'm trying to say it verbatim. Um, let me see if I can remember this. Give me one second. Um, God. Basically, they'll never you'll never have equal time. So, so think about the time of day. There's 24 hours in a day. Say you punch the clock, there's eight hours gone. You come home, you have to eat, you have to do your own thing. So there's never gonna be an even amount of time for it. It's all about balance, and it's all about you know how you balance the time and you know how much time you give to whatever you're working in in that moment. So if I'm if I'm with my wife at that moment, it's 100% her. It's not work, you know, and so that's how you have to balance things, you know, it's it's never gonna be an even, you know, it's just another word he used, but I can't quite think of it at this moment. But no, it's okay.

Allen C. Paul 23:14

I hope if it comes back to you, but I love this cut topic because number one, it goes to right what we just talked about. We are not just what we do, we are not just creators, we're not just musicians, we're not just ministers, we're not just producers, we're all those things all the time. And the word that I have been digging into more is rhythm. Number one, it's musical term. Number two, it's literally how our bodies are made. We don't beat at our hearts 100 beats a minute, nor at 70 beats a minute, it depends on what's going on at the time. And so, to everything there's a purpose, the season under heaven, right? So these are seasons and rhythms of life. And even God treats us like that. God doesn't always, he's not always loud in our ears. Sometimes he's silent, we'll get scared. He's like, nah, this is just a season or rhythm to our relationship. And so, like you just said, Wow, I feel like us as creators, we gotta make sure that we're in rhythm.

Dontaniel J. Kimborough 24:05

That's right. And see, I'm glad you said rhythm because you you helped me, you helped me spark it. So it's not balance, it's harmony. That's the word. See, look at the Lord, look at the Lord. See, once you said rhythm, I said, okay, here's a musical term harmony. It's not balance because you're never balanced. Someone is gonna always get more of your time. Something sleep gets most of our time.

Allen C. Paul 24:25

And look, as a producer, isn't that crazy that rhythm and harmony, all these things also apply to our lives? Because your job as a producer is to hear specific frequencies, specific things that need more, need less, and tweak it and that action. This is gonna this is this is just a masterclass right here. Okay, so then you see on my brain that came on. I see you. Look at you. So help me with this. If in fact our lives are supposed to kind of like look like when you're looking at a logic screen, a pro tools, whatever you use, if our lives are truly like that, do you think that what you do professionally also helps you personally with finding that harmony? So that when you have to exercise, okay, I need a little more of this, I need a little less of this, I need a little more of this. Is that also the same way you apply it to your personal life? Wow.

Dontaniel J. Kimborough 25:14

I would I'll and I'll be honest with you, I don't. And that's something I'm glad you said this because I don't, you know, and that's a good way to check yourself. You know, look at your work and how you have to prioritize things. Like you said, like, okay, you have to put things in this order. When you make a record, the number one priority is that that lead vocal, you know, and then everything else that surrounds it. So that lead vocal has priority here, you know. And so I'm, oh gosh, this can help me. And and I'll be honest, this is a struggle that I have. This is a struggle I have. And I've just recently taken some accountability with a pastor friend of mine. And I told him, I said, help me, you know. I I feel I just need some help and I need somebody to check me every now and then, check on me and make sure I'm doing the things that I'm supposed to do. So that's important for us as well. To get somebody that can be honest with you and you can be honest with, and they can speak into you, and you can really hear them. Not just, you know, okay, yeah, I I just talk. No, I want to hear you. I want to, I want to apply the things that you're you're you're speaking into my life. So I recently got got a person of accountability, and what he does is, you know, he checks me about my time with God, you know. And so what made me think about that is how we prioritize the focal point in our productions. Okay, what's the focal point of our lives? God. And God is always the last one that gets our attention. And I and I'm being honest, and we do this for him. We do this for him, right? And he's the last one to get our attention. And I know we were we he's a jealous God, and I'm certain he's jealous, and I have to use my accountability to make sure that I'm sitting down and I'm prioritizing my time with God. What did I read today? What scripture am I reading right now? Did I speak? Did I take 10 minutes out of my day to speak to God and tell him thank you, to, you know, to tell him, you know, my needs and all of that? Because that that is the priority of our lives, you know. God, then my family. I'm all the way at the bottom. Me. I'm always at the bottom. You know, it's my it's God, and then you know, it's my family, then it's my church, my business, and then what is what does Dontanian get at the end of the day? Nothing.

Allen C. Paul 27:35

You're like at the bottom, wait for that last little thing to drip to come down.

Speaker 3 27:39

You're like, please. Oh gosh.

Allen C. Paul 27:41

But I I gotta, I gotta, I gotta, this, this is too good. I gotta ask you because of that, because now we're getting down to the root of okay. I I hate to say it like this, but you kind of said it, what's in it for me, kind of thing, right? Because as you know, individuals, we do enter this with dreams, goals, aspirations, blah, blah, blah. And some somebody's listening right now, and I'm thinking about either the church musician or the uh the the the young gigging musician who's at the bottom. Maybe he is serving, maybe he is doing all the right things, but he's at the bottom, like, wait, well, when is this gonna happen? So please let me know if there is a I like to go between valleys and mountaintops when I talk about this thing. So somebody might be saying, okay, well, if he got that far and he's still getting crumbs, well, what's the point? So give so give me a mountaintop moment when maybe you realize that this does work, that prioritizing putting your God first, putting family first, putting that, that it does work out. Because I think some people think that they're just gonna be on that rat race and never make it out. Uh, but I think they need to see that you know, that in faithfulness there is a reward. So give me a moment that like they that you saw, like, okay, I was doing all this little stuff, but it felt like I wasn't getting nothing, and then God kind of revealed that no, you were doing it for a reason.

Dontaniel J. Kimborough 28:58

Wow, man, that's just so man. I love this platform, man. This this this fuels me right here, just so you know, this fuels me. It's our pleasure, man. This is why we're here. But I'll be honest, you know, time has to take its course. You know, people don't realize that. I am 45 years old, and I felt like I can do this. I felt like I could have done this from 15. You know, I felt like I was ready at 15. There was nowhere near, I was nowhere near ready to do what I'm doing on this level because okay, we we stop as, and then I'll I'll give you one of those mountaintops. We stop as as as as um our talent as creators, we stop there. Okay, the creating part is one thing, but how do you communicate with artists? You know, how do you build relationships with because that's a part of what we do as well. And actually that makes that makes a bigger statement than what you can actually create, you know, is how comfortable you make the artists. And so I I just knew I wasn't, you know, I just knew I was ready until I was at a point where I had to sit down and have a conversation. You know, how much information did I know about music publishing and and and production and you know, all the things that come along with it on the admin administration end of things, you know what I mean? Like, okay, so I wasn't ready. So I realized I was ready. Um, well, when I'll say this, one of my biggest songs, and I'll say the biggest song that I've ever, when I say biggest songs, not necessarily my favorite song, my my favorite, but it is actually one of my favorite. But my biggest song that brought me the most success was a song called Your Great Name. That that changed it all for me because I went from in Chicago, you know, unknown. Unknown. Like, okay, I've heard of him, but the majority of the people had no idea who, and at this point, it was Jamel who Jamel was. And then I co-wrote the song with with Todd, and then this song went everywhere. And then now I'm a I'm a household name as a producer in an instant, you know, and the reason, and and and I didn't do it for that reason, I was just only honest in that moment. When we wrote that song, I was just honest about how God gave it to us and how we felt, you know, we didn't do it to be the number one song in the world, we didn't do it for that reason at all. We said, wow, this will this this will give God glory here because anybody in any church can put their their own rendition to that song. You can do it in Spanish, you can do it in any kind of way, and that is gonna saturate the kingdom of God. And so that was our our whole reason. And that song changed my entire life. Financially, every every opportunity just fell in my lap at that point, you know, because of my obedience. Like I didn't do this off of my own desire to be famous. God showed me, okay, this is what I want you guys to say right now. Be honest, and then I'll do the rest, you know. And I think we just disregard the time that it takes for God to do what he wants in your life, and we rush things and we say, okay, I'm ready, God, and you're not ready. He's trying to show you that there's a lot more to learn than just your talent. You know, he's trying, he's giving you time to see that. You know, he's giving you time so we're not understanding, okay, it's taking so much time, but he's actually giving you that time to figure it out, and we're not applying ourselves.

Allen C. Paul 32:41

So you're saying that time was the gift, even more than the actual moment of, oh, all the stuff that you were preparing God was preparing in you. You think, oh, that's the blessing. The blessing was the time you had to get ready for.

Dontaniel J. Kimborough 32:54

Absolutely. Now I can move forward and I can I can have other opportunities that I'm ready for, but I wasn't ready to handle the load that he's now given me prior to that that that time. And so my lowest point was, and I'll I'll give you my lowest point. You know, I thought I was ready. I caught myself blindly signing to a record company as a producer, and you know, I'm like, okay, things are gonna be good, and you know, I'm gonna get this, I'm gonna get that. That record label took everything from me. I mean, it and when I say everything, it took my my where my family laid their head. That's how much that relationship took from me. Like Sir, I am, oh my gosh, how how do you how do you go to how do you even process? Listen, listen, it was so bad. I had to move a house, I put everything I had, everything I've owned in a in a um rental truck with nowhere to take it. I got my family in my car behind me, and I'm in a truck driving all of our stuff, and we had nowhere to go, Alan. I'm think about that. You have you you you don't have any, you don't even have enough money to put your stuff in a storage.

Allen C. Paul 34:14

Oh god, you have to you have you have to you have to you have to help us. How how did you make it out of that? Because we're all like stunt, like okay, like there's gotta be there's there's clearly a happy ending to the story, but we don't know how did you get from A to B. Like how, like, what was your next step to just see yourself somehow come out of this?

Dontaniel J. Kimborough 34:35

Yes, I I you know what I I lay vulnerable to God's will, and and that's just you know, speaking it, you know, in in in in a short sense, you know, but um transition happened in between churches, you know, and I honestly, you know, through that transition, I took I didn't go for a lot of money, I didn't ask them to pay me what I felt like I was worth. I said, you know what, Lord, I'm just gonna let you guide the wheel. I'm gonna let you guide this thing, and I'm just lay humble and I'm not gonna try to do this on my own anymore, you know. And then before you know it, things kind of glued together. It was just right before my eyes. Like you really won't see God's transition. You won't, you won't, you're just gonna look up and you're gonna look back and say, wow, just last year, and you won't have any answer for that. You know, but the answer you what you have to do is lay still. You have to remain faithful and just let God do what he has to do in your life. Like time, I and that was one thing, you know. I said to my children, we did our 2023 conversation about, you know, what do we see ourselves in 23? Uh, and that was time was the number one thing. I said, you know, that was the meat of my conversation because I feel like time has to happen for everything to happen. You know, God has to take the time, you have to take time to develop, you have to learn, and you have to let time do what it's supposed to do.

Allen C. Paul 36:04

Look, I I cannot imagine the people that are just listening and said, Oh, wait a minute. The same guy that I was aspiring to be like went through something like that. Like, that's where I really want to make sure it's heard and seen and felt by every person that's listening to this right now. That, you know, we we we like to do this in platitudes, don't we, sir, in the church and elsewhere. The glory before the story, the story before the glory, the testimony, you'll use your test as testimony. It's all easy to say, but when you have to walk through it, it's like we get amnesia, we get spiritual amnesia. It's like all that stuff we talked about, how Joseph went through this and Daniel went through this, and Lions didn't, we love to say it until you're the one looking for a place to live, literally with your family, because you thought you were following a certain path in the and in the music industry where you thought God called you to. And he, you know, obviously it all comes out okay. But no, thank you for sharing that. That's an incredible, incredible.

Dontaniel J. Kimborough 37:01

I mean, uh pawning your own gear that helps you make a gosh, don't don't walk down my street.

Allen C. Paul 37:07

Don't walk down my street, man. Get off my street.

Dontaniel J. Kimborough 37:09

Listen, I've been there, I've had to pawn all kind of stuff that I worked hard that is actually gonna make a living for me. And God, I'm like, God, what how am I gonna do it now? Like, I have to pay a bill, and so this piece has to go, this mic has to go, this keyboard has to go, all the way down to the bare minimum of a laptop and headphones, you know, is that's the only thing that could have kept me alive, you know. But I trusted God, Alan. I trusted him. I said, All right, I guess I have to go through this. Yeah, yeah. I guess I have to, and so that's just what I went through. And so thank you for letting me share it because I don't think I know.

Allen C. Paul 37:48

No, thank you for sharing it. And I gotta tell you, this is where like it's an incredible truth that we cannot overstate. That um, I don't know who said it, I don't know which preacher I've got I'm taking it from, but he said, before God will use you greatly, he must wound you or significantly. You must, there's just no, there's no other way that God would trust, entrust you with what is entrusted you. And I hear you like I catch little things like this, uh my brother. I catch things like when you say, sit down with my family to go over our 2023 goals. When I hear things like, my wife has got to know what's going on in my life, we've got to be one on the same page. When I hear you things say about your relationship, even with Todd, and you know, and I read more about that and talked about like how you was in a position of a servant, like those are things that qualify you. We're not qualified, like you know, I'm doing quotes, air quotes. We're not qualified, but it does qualify you for the blessings that you received because you sowed those seeds when it wasn't easy. You were like doing the right thing when it wasn't didn't feel right, and the right things were happening. So I'm just I'm absolutely inspired. Okay, so now we we I don't know how we go from this because I we could do this all day. Um I'd like to know just in terms of let's let's jump into the place where you are building, because there's where you've been, there's where you are now, but then there's where you're going, right? So a lot of us in this world, 2023, we got all the social media stuff, we're trying to build this, trying to be this on Instagram and all this stuff, in which I'm glad you're not trying to deal with it's smart. But tell me just in terms of now that you are, you mentioned time, now that you are where you are now, uh, what do you see moving forward? What in your past is helping you move towards your future? And what does that future kind of see? And I guess a five, I don't know how long, but just in terms of like, you know, long-term goals, do you see you're building to something different, or are you gonna be keeping doing something similar to what you're doing right now?

Dontaniel J. Kimborough 39:43

Well, um one thing I have to do know that you know, just just as easy as God gave me the gift, he can give it to somebody else and he will. And there's always gonna be someone next to do it better than you or take it to the next level because that is just how it goes. You know, there there was once Quincy Jones, and you know, and now there's people like, I mean, from the secular end of things, Rodney, you know, Rodney Jerkins, and on the gospel side of things, you've got Kevin Bond, you know, my big brother Aaron Lindsay. You have people like that. Now then you have people like me, and you see how God uses people to further grow the kingdom of God. So with that mindset, you have to realize that, okay, you're not gonna be called on forever, you know, and that's just not, it's just a way of life. They're not gonna call your name because they're calling me right now, and my phone is busy, and contracts are coming in, and I'm I'm eating good, I'm eating steak every night, and you know, I'm never gonna get comfortable in that mindset in that place because everything is a season, you know. How weird do you look with having a coat on in the middle of the summer? You know, we moved on now. Like, if you don't take that coat off, you you know, you're gonna burn up. And you know, but anyway, that's the mindset I have to think. I have to think that, okay, it's always got to be a next. And that next, you know, has to be something. And for me, I have to still understand that I have to be fulfilled in what God has given me because I can do what I do right now for free. I could. If if not not because I have, you know, because I have so much money, it's because the love of what I have, I could do it for no money at all. That's how much I love what I do, and so that's gonna fulfill me. But I'm also a grown man with responsibilities. And my kids are not gonna eat, my wife is not gonna eat on just my love of doing what I do, you know. And so you have to just understand that there's a next, there's gonna be somebody else, and you have to always think about the next move. The next move is just as important as the move you're currently working. So, uh yes, there's a lot of things that I'm I'm I'm headed to do. And I tell people all the time if you're 40, you need to have someone 50 and above as a mentor because they're gonna help you see that next cycle of life that you just won't have perspective to see, you know. So my mentor right now is a 55-year-old white man. Yes, he's my mentor, and because he's done the whole industry thing. If I give you a name, you'll know this guy. Like he's had a huge career in in Christian music, and he's now my mentor, but he's now settling down. He's a he's a consultant, he's he develops, he he cultivates, he leads, you know, he's not so much doing his artistry anymore, you know. And that's kind of where you have to understand it is best to just build the next person up, you know. That's that's the goal. And for me, it's building the next person, teaching them to do what I already know to do, maybe, you know, preventing them from making a lot of the mistakes that I've made, and they can get there a little faster than I got there, you know. And that's that's really where I see myself. Mentorship, you know, of course I'm gonna always do music, but that's not the focus anymore. But even after that, you know, I I see, you know, record label, I see I see a lot of things, you know. But let me share one thing too. One thing will always be a part of my equation, always, is serving the house of God. People ask me all the time, oh, you still you still out of church and you're not? You're missing you're missing it. You're not serving out of church. You you you totally totally went over your head because you take care of the this is the way I look at it, you take care of the kingdom of God, and then God will in in return take care of you. And so my whole Desires to make sure the house of God is taken care of. You know, I'm always at staff meetings. I'm always at church every weekend, even if I'm not playing that weekend. I'm gonna always be, I'll mix this weekend, I'll do broadcasts, I'll do service production, I'll play keys. Whatever the house needs, I'm gonna always be there because that is what got me to my position at this point. Because I've learned everything I know because of serving in the church. You know how much you apply to your oh gosh.

Allen C. Paul 44:32

Look, I ain't like goosebumps right now. Okay, let me just I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm gonna frame it as a question because otherwise I'll just like just start like just shouting and throwing ties everywhere. Just shout it out. If I can't do it on the podcast, that would not be good audio. Um when you just said that about why the church's connection is so important, um how would you you just said it. I'll just say like how many times give me a percentage do the skills that you developed in church serving with no intention of using it professionally, you just were serving. What percentage of time does that actually end up benefiting you in every other area of your life?

Dontaniel J. Kimborough 45:19

100% because I'm gonna tell you people skills, teach you how to how to how to how to speak to people when in need, how to get what you need out of a team, team leadership, you know, how to bend your ear to what the needs are of the church, of the congregation, how to sacrifice and die to yourself and give the body what it needs. All of this applies to music production, every bit of it. Because what I do for a living is not for me, it's the people that are gonna consume my music. And so I create music based on the needs of the people, you know, and so you're learning every trick of the trade to being a producer or creative, even if it's video content, video, LD, lighting directors. You're learning everything you need to learn in your church environment. So it's like a win-win. You're serving the house of God and you're learning everything you need to learn, you know, to do your job as a producer or creative. This is your outlet to do it. So why not continue to give that back to the house and do and further develop the kingdom?

Allen C. Paul 46:26

Let me let me just tell you how validating that is to me personally, and so that so that everyone that hears this knows that I'm not trying to like change, change the subject. I struggle with the fact that when I wrote my book, I struggle with the fact that my very first chapter starts with staying connected to church because I thought, Dante, I thought that was going to alienate all the musicians and all the people reading, like, why are you guys doing the church? I don't need to be a member, blah, blah, blah. And I just heard those critics in my head before I even put this out. I thought people were going to fight against the whole point of being a part of church. Church hurt, name it. You literally, five years later, just reminded me why God started me on this path, with starting with that on the very foundation of this entire platform because of what you just said. So thank you personally. I have to say it out loud on wax. This is why I need to hear that voice. People like me who are surfing every week and who are performing everywhere else to remind me that I seek the kingdom first, all these things, including contracts, writing, gigging, but all these things are added. And thank you for reminding us, all of us together.

Dontaniel J. Kimborough 47:40

Yes. And that temptation is gonna happen, Alan. You're gonna be tempted to you, okay, there's opportunities out there. There's gonna be several opportunities, but okay, let's prioritize. You can you can still take those opportunities, you know. But sometimes, okay, if it takes some time where you have to limit yourself at the church, you know, for this weekend. Okay, um, you know, just position yourself to always make sure the church is taken care of. So anytime I have to be out for the week or the weekend, I they know I'm gonna take care of the church. The church is not gonna be in lack and they're not gonna fall apart because I'm out. You know what I mean? And so that's that's the key. The temptation is gonna be there. But notice how a lot of musicians and creators then, you know, later on in their career, they go back to the church. So you see, a lot of producers are now our pastors because they realize like it should have, I should have never left the umbrella of the church anyway. There were opportunities that that God presented to you, but you you're gonna always come back to that umbrella of the church because that is our number one mission. That's why He created us to serve that house. I'm sorry, like people will argue with me. You have to serve that house. I'm sorry. That don't mean you can't do things on the outside of it, that's kingdom work. But the local church, I mean God honors that much more than we really think, you know? And so there's gonna be seasons where you do things outside of the church, yes, but you're gonna have to come back. God's gonna speak to you, he's gonna force you to come back one way or another.

Allen C. Paul 49:15

Oh gosh, this is so good. You're gonna be going back to uh what was it with uh brutes? You're gonna be going back to the house of bread. You're coming back, back to the house of bread. Oh my gosh. Okay, how do how do okay? Basically, let's this how I'll put it. Number one, everyone that's listening, watching, you've already saved it. Hopefully, you've already rewound it, you've already listened about three or four times, you've already sent it about five or six friends because this is literally life-giving. I mean, you must, my friend, like, I cannot tell you how much you blessed me personally. Again, I don't want to be all about me, but I literally am like floating right now because I'm like, God, thank you, because this is the message we're trying to send through this platform. And clearly, you, sir, are doing exactly what you said. You're lifting other people up, you're you're pouring into the next generation of musicians, artists, creators, whatever they're doing, they're gonna be following in your footsteps, but you're making sure you're walking the right path before you, you know, guide them. What would you say? We have to close this off somehow, I don't know how, but what would you say to someone who is where you were back in the that moment, like that low moment? Because someone's listening that is still kind of like, all right, that sounds all well and good, but I ain't got none of that. I didn't meet a Todd Delaney, I didn't get a Grammy, I didn't get the church position, I didn't get the gig, I didn't get the thing, and they're still at that place where like you felt like, okay, what do I do? So, what would you say to yourself back at that moment when you were at that low point uh outside the you know the house without without a place to stay? What would you say to yourself now to encourage someone who's in that same position?

Dontaniel J. Kimborough 50:45

That's good. And I would say, I would say, if we're living in a social media world and you can't run from it, you're gonna see it. It's just the it's the way of life. And so I've adapted as much as I could to it, you know, but comparison will kill you. Comparison will defeat you because the comparison is nothing but the enemy trying to destroy what God has for you. And so some and and I'm speaking to this generation. We didn't have this growing up, we didn't have social media, you know. There was other things, you know. But today, social media is your it can be your friend, but it can also destroy you because it makes you doubt what God has even called you here to do. And so close your ears, close your eyes, and be obedient and let God do what he's supposed to and what he needs to do in your in your life. Just close your eyes and and close your ears to people and bend your ears to what the Holy Spirit tells you, and he'll tell you that through how you feel, you know, more than you know, what you're hearing or what you're seeing. You're gonna feel a certain way, and God is gonna tell you if this is the right way. So just close your eyes, and I and this is something I had to do, take a deep breath, close my eyes, close my ears, and stop comparing because that was me now making bad decision decisions because I compared myself to the next man, you know, and that that that was if someone would have told me that, I think I would have bypassed a lot of mistakes. I already know I would have.

Allen C. Paul 52:23

So good. Absolutely. You know, just I was I'll just give you revelation. I don't like to use that word lightly, but I do feel like this is like revelation because just the way it's just coming out from the sincerity of the heart and the truth of God's word coming out of your man. All right. So if they were to follow you on social media, which is hilarious, because we just said, hey, close your ears and turn it off. But if they were to connect with you so that you can continue to inspire them, just let them know because some people are still old school. I know they can just tap the link in the description, they should have already done that by now. But if they do want to follow you, stay connected with Kia Mupp Music, all that stuff, just tell them the best places to stay connected with you.

Dontaniel J. Kimborough 52:58

Well, I'm I'm pretty active on um Instagram. And so you can catch me at Mr K-E-Y-E-M-U-P-C-E-O at Instagram. And so I'm I'm very active there. And then Facebook, you can see me at Kia M up Music, K-E-Y-E-M-U-P music at Facebook. So, you know, what you're gonna get out of me though, you're gonna you're gonna, I'm gonna give you nuggets to keep you inspired, but you're gonna get my family.

Allen C. Paul 53:24

It was such a refreshing thing, I'm telling you. Not, oh, I played with this person, not that I oh, I got this particular award, oh, this thousands of people come to my show, come to my show, come to my show. No, I'm like, this man loves his family, and it makes me remind myself that no, the most important thing, what I'll be judged by at the end of the day, is of course my works, you know, my work for God. But then nine, like you said, right under that, literally the exact same thing is to work for my family.

Dontaniel J. Kimborough 53:51

Absolutely. And now you can boast in the Lord because now he's gonna give you things that you can boast about, but not because of you, it's because of him. You can boast in the Lord. And and and and so when things happen in your life, you can say, God did that and not me. You know, God doesn't want to, you know, he doesn't want you to take the credit, he wants he wants to have all the credit about your success. And so, because it's always gonna turn back around to God did that.

Allen C. Paul 54:16

Yep, yep. He just remember that he gets the credit, we get the benefits. I love it, brothers. It's been too good, man. Until next time, it has to be a next time. God bless you, man. Thank you. Anytime, man. Thank you so much for being on the show, brother.

Dontaniel J. Kimborough 54:28

Good, man. Talk to you later, Alex.

Allen C. Paul 54:36

My friend, I have no words that I could add to that incredible interview. I can only say two things. Number one, I am so grateful for Don Hanuel for sharing his heart and his mission with us and the Scott and Giggs community. And number two, I'm gonna challenge you right now, and I've never done this before on a podcast, but pause it. And before you get to the end of this episode, send this to those two, three, four, five people in your creative life, in your circle that you know, you know for a fact, you've had conversations about these things, and you know they need to hear this right away. So I'm gonna continue, assuming you're gonna follow this challenge and pause right about now and send this to those five people. Okay, now that you've done that, go ahead and finish out this episode with us by making sure you've subscribed, that you followed us, that you are leaving a review. I love to see the reviews. We love to see what's blessed you, what's helped you. So if you're on Apple Podcasts, you can leave a review. You can also do so on Spotify and leave some stars there so that we know that we're blessing you. I know this episode is one of those that hopefully was a highlight of this show and you want to save it in that same app that you're using right now. If you're following us on an app like Good Pods, you can even comment on this show as you share it as well. So we know that you're out there, we can connect with you. You can always follow us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, all of the socials are once again in the show notes. And a quick announcement, which I forgot to mention at the beginning of the show, you can also support our show financially. Yes, you can actually pour into this program so that we can continue to bring you inspiring voices like Dont Daniels. And it's super, super inexpensive for as little as $3 a month. All you got to do is once again scroll in the description. You'll see a link in the show notes where you can provide just that little push, that little thank you, that little piece of value so that we can continue doing the work that we're doing to help you as a creative transform your life from the inside out. Well, that's the entire show. That's an incredible show today. So there's nothing else I want to add. I want you to go out and do some amazing things with the inspiration that you were just given. And so until next time, continue to become the creative that you were created to be. God bless, and I'll see you next episode.

Voiceover 57:12

Thanks for joining us here at the God and Gig Show. Please leave us a review on iTunes, like our Facebook page, or visit godandgigs.com and tell us what you thought of this show. We'll be back soon. In the meantime, go create something amazing.