Why True Discipleship Is the Hidden Key to Church Multiplication | Ed Love

speaker-0: Well, we often think of multiplication as the big goal, but the truth is it's a natural result of a healthy church. And so today we're joined by the man who leads his vision for our entire denomination. He is the executive director of Church Multiplication and Discipleship for the Wesleyan Church. Ed Love is with us. Ed, welcome to the circuit.

speaker-1: Hey, it's great to be here with you all. Super excited about this conversation.

speaker-0: So tell us Ed, just a little bit about yourself and what you do.

speaker-1: Yeah, well, I serve as the executive director of church multiplication and discipleship, which is a big role. also includes next-gen leadership with kids, youth, young adults. I oversee all the church planting systems and initiatives, church multiplication, helping churches multiply. And it's been about almost four years in that role. I served as the director of multiplication before that. for the Wesleyan Church. And so it's just been really exciting seeing where the Wesleyan Church is going and the momentum that is building around disciple making and church multiplication. So it's a real joy to be able to serve in this capacity and to help leaders all across North America. I love the outdoors. And anytime I can get outside, and God's creations, wonderful thing, kind of an outdoorsman, fishing, hunting, canoeing, ⁓ just getting in those ⁓ spaces where truly it's connecting with God in nature. that's really ⁓ just a space that my heart just comes alive and God speaks to me and just feel a sense of renewal. And I've always enjoyed that. So that's big part of my life, I suppose, all of my interests and hobbies. I also like to play basketball and that's one of my mission fields in my life is the basketball courts. People that I play with and guys that I can build relationships with most often, you know, they're not a part of a church family. And so that's, that's a real joy in my life. I'm getting older though, man. It's getting harder. keep up with the young guns.

speaker-0: Yeah, I feel that. So you travel, did you grow up in the Midwest at all?

speaker-1: I did. I grew up in Missouri. Okay. And then in year 2000, I moved up to Michigan to be a youth pastor. And then I was there for about three years. It great church experience and found my wife and married up and then felt called into, you know, I mean, I was already called into ministry. I knew that, but I just felt a sense that I needed to deepen my soul for the long haul of ministry. Like I couldn't, you know, go another route. So I went to Asbury Seminary down in Kentucky for a time period. And that was a beautiful time in my life. just got to, I like to say I just deepened my wealth. And that was really life-giving and did my Masters of Divinity there and met some incredible people. And then I felt called into church planning at that point. And I remember Mark Orvette was a superintendent up in ⁓ Michigan at the time, and he actually discovered me somehow and started having conversations with what it would be like to move back up to Michigan and plant churches and join the Wesleyan Church family. so incredibly grateful for that and ended up happening, moved back up to Michigan. We planted ⁓ a multiplying church. We wanted to be a church planting church from day one. We wanted to make disciples that made disciples. And I had made a disciple, baptized a guy. And then he felt called into ministry. And so I'm walking him through the process. He ends up ⁓ taking my role at the church. Just after we moved in, we did a big building project and beautiful setup is everything I ever dreamed of, you know, and then I felt called to go plant again. And then he felt called to take over the leadership of the church. He's still leading there today, doing an incredible job. And that church is still planting churches. Super cool to see that. And we started a network called Greenhouse Church Planning Network. And I ended up planting another church about 30 minutes away. And we started all over again, doing the same thing, disciples making disciples, and then eventually led into church multiplication. So I was there for about five years and then the denomination tapped me to be the director of church multiplication, which led me to Indiana. So that's where I'm currently at. So that's a little of my storyline.

speaker-0: Good old Hoosier state. So glad you're here. One of the things, Ed, your titling's two massive words and you've brought these up, but multiplication and discipleship. And so in your mind, like, why is it impossible to have one without the other? Is it impossible to have one without the other or should you always think both when you're working?

speaker-1: I say it's impossible. If you're truly making disciples and you're leading a healthy church, got to recognize healthy things multiply. They reproduce. It's just the natural outflow of your ministry. And I think of it oftentimes as two sides of the same coin. you know, disciple making and church multiplication, they go together. You definitely, you can't begin with church multiplication. There is a natural progression. You have to begin with disciple making. I mean, that is the core. And that's what Jesus called us to do. You know, even in the Great Commission, you know, Jesus didn't say, go plant churches. He said, go and make disciples. And that's what ends up happening though. If you start making disciples, you're going to end up helping people discover their equipping gifts, their spiritual gifts, and your responsibility is to help them reproduce and see themselves as someone who is sent out, a sent one. And that's just the natural overflow of a healthy, reproducing church.

speaker-0: love what you said there that you have to make disciples to multiply. so for a pastor who feels like they don't have the extra money or the time or even to get out there and just really do that, what is one step that they would be able to take in discipleship? What are you seeing across the country where things are going? And if pastors could really start looking that direction or doing this one thing or two things. What would that be for you? ⁓

speaker-1: You know, here's the deal. It's really not about money. And money will follow good leadership, though. The real issue or dynamic going on is your ability to invest in others and disciple them in the way of Jesus, help them discover their call in ministry. And there is a sense of everybody's called to ministry. There is unique callings and giftings for leadership, of course. I think that's one of the things early on in my ministry, I just felt like the people that I disciple, direct, my direct disciples, they're gonna be people who have the leadership gift and I'm gonna pour my life into them. I'm gonna help them see, I'm gonna empower them, I'm help them see that God can use them. And it might be very different. You know, gotta help people find their unique calling and all that. It might be different than the, you know, typical ⁓ lead pastor role or whatnot, but ⁓ really helping them find their unique gift and their call is the ultimate goal. Then releasing them. Now that's the hard part. And I've, I've experienced it and it is difficult. Like you raise up, you invest in someone, you believe in them. And there comes this moment when You gotta let them go and you gotta let them grow. I mean, it's just like raising kids. I've got three kids, two of them are in college now, one's a freshman in high school. I'm in that releasing point with my older two who I've sent off to college and it's like they're being set up, not fully yet, but. being set up to run their own lives and to thrive and do ⁓ what God's called them to do. And there is that releasing point that is so difficult. And oftentimes we want to hang on to people. But early on, I really, I feel like there was this quote I came across that says it this way, my fruit grows on other people's trees. And I recognized Way more is going to happen in the kingdom if I release other people into their ministry and God's going to work uniquely through them. And we can impact a lot more people. A lot more people are going to come to Christ and be baptized and also find their calling ministry as they're released into their calling. And I tell you though, that is probably one of the greatest joys of ministry. Being able to witness. some of the people that I disciple and raised up in leadership and ministry and now they're off planting churches and they're raising up people. And I remember being at an exponential conference, like it was just a couple of years ago. And one of my disciples came up to me and said, hey, let me introduce you to so-and-so. They're gonna be planting a church out of our church. And we've been in a discipling relationship for a couple of years and they're ready to go. and this is going to be your grandchild. I didn't even know who they were, you know, we got to know each other, but it is just such a blessing to see and to know like, you know, more, way more has happened in the kingdom as someone's been released into ministry. And it just continues to multiply and reproduce. And that's just, there's no greater reward than that. I don't think, but it's hard, you know, cause you like. the people that you invest in. And you kind of want, you're like, they're good leaders, I want them for my thing, you know? But, you know, you look at the scriptures and the way the Apostle Paul worked. You know, he's always going into cities, raising up leaders, and then he's got to move on. And then he continues to keep that relationship with them. It's just this process of expansion in the kingdom and that just ends up being kind of a A real blessing, through the years.

speaker-0: Why aren't we multiplying as quickly, do you think, as we could be? Is it discipleship problem that pastors and leaders just don't know how to disciple people or don't think they've got the time to do that? Or is it really more of a multiplication of we really just want to stay where we're at because we're stable and we don't want to move and we don't want to send out because if we send out, we might lose.

speaker-1: Right. ⁓ That is definitely a fear. There's no doubt about it. That, you if we release these people, our community might struggle or we might not have enough leaders or, you know, we're back to square one. That's a definite fear. And I would say though, to your question, it is a discipleship problem. or a challenge. It is a time challenge. Oftentimes in the American church, typical American church experience and being a pastor in a church, you have all these expectations. It's almost like you're expected to do everything but make disciples. And you got to recognize you're not making a disciple just through your preaching. And your preaching takes up a lot of time during the week, right? message in a series and to be impactful and relevant and creative and it takes all this energy that sometimes that you know that production ends up taking up the majority of time probably 80 % of your time and then you got a little bit left over maybe to give to direct disciple making and I remember being challenged early on in ministry to flip that around. to try to change those expectations to where I look at it as if you could spend 80 % of your time, you know, making disciples and developing that whole structure and system within your church, and then maybe 20%, you know, on the weekend experience, you know, you might actually get way more accomplished quicker if you were to adjust the time that you put into your ministry and that it's kind of a time allocation issue. But that's a tension. Everybody lives with. Take for it. Because naturally, you're probably not going to put your time there because it feels like other, it's the tyranny of the urgent. know, Sunday's coming and you got to get everything out and get everything ready and, and, and have it organized. You know, I do think there's a, could be a trust issue, like you mentioned, where when you release someone or empower them, to do something, you know, they're gonna fail. You know, I did early on in ministry. The important thing is as your disciples take on new challenges and start new things, failure's part of it. It's okay. Not everything is gonna be amazing and, you know, perfect as it unravels, right? So being able to walk with leaders through those experiences, that's... That's the true growth experience though for them. And it ends up, you know, if you can kind of look at it this way, it's just like helping people start small and take on those new challenges. Like I remember when just leading a small group felt like the biggest thing ever. Like I don't even think I can do this, you know? And then little by little, it's like, okay, I step into that, grow in my leadership and those... spaces and it's like, ⁓ God actually uses me here, you know, and I'm actually helping people and then that can lead to other things. But we got to be able to trust people and, you know, people are going to do things differently than you might. Everyone's got a unique wiring and all that. But being able to empower them to do those things leads. to more and more growth. I find it interesting, Jesus told his disciples, you're going to go on and do greater things than I have. always has, Jesus saw his fruit was going to grow on other people's trees. That work was going to continue to multiply exponentially, but they were going to go on and do greater things. I think about that sometimes too, like, You know, the people who I'm leading, they're going to go on and do greater things than I could have ever done. And that's a beautiful thing though, isn't it? Being able to see other people thrive and grow in ministry.

speaker-0: So if you're in that position, and this is kind of where we'll kind of wrap things up with the pulse check today, if you were to say as a leader, this one practical shift is something you should do when it comes to multiplication discipleship.

speaker-1: Yeah. Well, that's a great question. I'm a strategic guy, strategic thinker. like strategy. But if I were to say the one thing. It's prayer and reliance on the Holy Spirit. Truly being empowered by the Holy Spirit, listening for the Holy Spirit. And I think, I know that's kind of two things, but in prayer, that's where the empowerment comes from. And, you know, it's kind of like, you know, even an ax, you know, ⁓ the day of Pentecost, you know, the disciples are waiting, you know, there's this anticipation that God's going to do something and the Holy Spirit comes upon them and then they're fully empowered for the work of the ministry. And that's the beginning point. That's the first step. Like if you really are dreaming about being a disciple making, reproducing church, it begins with fervent prayer, waiting on the Holy Spirit and calling others into that experience. And it's not just prayer for personal transformation or to make things better or to build something that you're doing, you know, it truly is this experience of waiting on the Holy Spirit for that empowerment and that calling that happens. Because that's where God does his deepest work in us and the people that we lead. And it's surprising, you know, like Out of those experiences and those communal times of prayer, people get visions. They get passionate about something. Hopefully they're getting passionate about the brokenness in our world and lost people that need to find Jesus. And once that starts happening inside of them, And they're just deeply broken for the lost in the world. The people around them could be in their workplace, their mission field, wherever that might be. Then God just starts stirring up ideas and ways that He can use them in those contexts. And that's why it's hard to plan it. So like one of the, in my second church plant, one of our first church planning experiences was to plant churches in the prison system around us. We had four maximum security prisons and we had a guy after prayer experiences, he felt called to the prisons, right? And we start talking about what does that look like? Can we plant a church in the prison and not just show up and do a little ministry, but like actually use the people in the prison for the ministry, right? Can we... actually see disciples making disciples in the prison. I probably, my strategic mind, that wouldn't have been the first thing I'd done. But God ends up using that, using him and his leadership, and then that just expanded, you know, and it went from prison to prison. Super cool. It wasn't a part of like our strategic plan, but that's just something unique God was doing. I can think of multiple examples of that where it just, you know, kind of organically God is stirring up people with these passions and these calls to ministry in the ways that God will use them and then it's just helping them figure out how to do that, you know as a church body, how can we come around and we support that work and that ends up being a lot of fun. I gotta tell you because God is a surprising God and he's always calling people and sometimes we just gotta help them figure that out. and create those spaces where they can interact with the Holy Spirit and, you know, just help them catch the vision of how God might use them and he'll surprise them. So, I guess that's my one thing and I've founded on that a little bit.

speaker-0: No, that's incredibly powerful. Really, thank you. Thank you so much for your time, your insight, and for being willing to go deep with us today on that. And if people want to connect with you or follow the work you're doing or follow you, where's the best place for them to find you?

speaker-1: Yeah, well, you can always find me on Facebook. At Edlock. Yeah. You know, we have for those who are part of the Wesleyan Church, can go to wesling.org forward slash C-M-A-D, C-Med, to find out all the different things that we're doing there within the church multiplication and discipleship realm. And yeah, if you ever want to just reach out, I'm always open to helping people personally and... and coaching them through their next steps. Please feel free to reach out. Love to help in any way possible.

speaker-0: Well, we'll make sure to link ⁓ your Facebook and all those stuff in the show notes for this episode. Ed, thank you so much again for joining us.

speaker-1: That was great, I really appreciate it. I love what you're doing with the circuit.

speaker-0: Hey, thanks for joining us for this episode of the Circuit Leadership Podcast. Before we go, I want to keep you moving on a few vital updates from across the district. Mark your calendars and clear your schedule for Equip Week 2026. It's happening May 4th through May 8th at the Orleans Wesleyan Campground. Registration is officially open. So this is our premier week for ministerial education and leadership development. So whether you're working through your courses or you just need to sharpen your focus, you need to be at the campgrounds this May, visit indianasouth.org or the equip registration site to secure your spot. If this episode helped you, please share it with one other leader in our network. The mission is too big for us to run in isolation. Keep your heart healthy, your mission focused, and your hands on the plow, and we'll see you next time. on the Circuit Leadership Podcast.