#41 | Building Physics for the Soul with Alex Slater

Jess Kismet (00:04.335)

Hello and welcome to the Building Sciology Poddie where we talk about better buildings to live and breathe in. My name is Jess Kismet and I'm your host. Today my guest is Alex Slater. Alex is a registered architect and certified passive house designer based in Melbourne, Australia. Through his practice, Building Physics Australia, he merges architectural insight with building science to create healthier, energy efficient buildings. In this episode, we are going to explore how Alex navigates the gray areas of building projects, balancing design integrity.

 

In this episode, we are going to explore how Alex navigates the gray areas of building projects, balancing design integrity with performance. We're going to discuss his approach to building physics, the importance of upfront thinking and design, and how tools like the Passive House Planning Package, otherwise known as PHPP play a role in his work. Hey, Alex.

 

Alex Slater (00:52.472)

G'day, Jess. Thanks for having me.

 

Jess Kismet (00:54.315)

thanks for coming on. It's great to chat. so give us a little bit of a rundown, who you are, how you got to where you are today and when the moment that you just got decided, this is what you wanted to be doing. What was that moment like?

 

Alex Slater (01:08.066)

Yeah, cool. Cool. Cool. Cool. Well, I'm not an Olympic runner. That's for sure. So I'll give you another rundown. So I started off in Canberra, I brought up in Canberra and I was always interested in buildings. And from a very early age, I remember actually drawing a sketch of an underground home and using the systems to work out how they all work together. about the age of four or five, I'd say something like that. And from then on, just this interest in how the building environment works. And for me, it was always more than just design.

 

Jess Kismet (01:11.341)

Hahaha!

 

Alex Slater (01:37.55)

There's always something a little bit further that has to connect back to the world and back to the environment that we live in and how we as humans can work with that environment, but also how we can work with our own environments to make sure that we're having the best outcomes or balanced outcomes based on what's outside and what's inside. And so moving from Canberra, I went to Melbourne afterwards. studied, initially I studied architecture in Canberra for the undergrad.

 

Jess Kismet (01:57.039)

Mm-hmm.

 

Alex Slater (02:06.466)

did the post-grad in Melbourne and continued my journey in Melbourne, worked under Passive House Builder and also few architects both in Canberra and Melbourne and ended up merging the Canberra or the Canberra experience into the company that exists today with Jeff. So both directors and that has become more than an architecture firm. So it's become an architecture firm, registered architecture firm.

 

but also dives into building physics to make sure that we provide the best that we can based on what we know about the constraints and context of the project.

 

Jess Kismet (02:46.511)

So hang on, Jeff is your co-director of Building Physics Australia?

 

Alex Slater (02:50.158)

Yeah, well, it's the same company. It's just a business name, really. So we've got a company, we've got a Pty LTD and we've got multiple business names.

 

Jess Kismet (02:53.263)

Okay. Yep. Yeah, right. I did not know that. What else do you do?

 

Alex Slater (02:59.191)

Yeah.

 

Alex Slater (03:03.964)

architecture and building physics.

 

Jess Kismet (03:06.051)

But it's all like the same work, but under multiple different like arms.

 

Alex Slater (03:10.284)

Names, yeah, yeah, yeah, and then in the future, looking at holistic architecture. So how health and architecture work together. So that'll, that'll come in in the future. That's a bit of a plug. Yeah, a bit of fun.

 

Jess Kismet (03:22.191)

Sounds very interesting. So you've got Building Physics Australia. What else have you got?

 

Alex Slater (03:29.038)

shared space architecture.

 

Jess Kismet (03:30.766)

Okay.

 

Alex Slater (03:32.024)

which is the shared space. It started off as shared space because we love sharing things. Yeah, yeah.

 

Jess Kismet (03:35.479)

Yeah. And is that a, it's a practicing architecture firm. you work in commercial, residential, everything. And building okay. And Booting Physics Australia is the building performance side of that. And you.

 

Alex Slater (03:38.946)

Yep. Yep. Yep. Have done. Yeah. Lots of, lots of small projects.

 

Alex Slater (03:49.964)

Yeah. And I think what's happened with that, and particularly the shared space architects have shown me this, is that we work in the gray area in architecture as well. So there's jobs that not a lot of architects want to do. So you know, warehouse conversions or little extensions or bits and pieces, patios, just making sure the compliance works. So one of our strengths is working with the gray area in terms of compliance. And so making sure that we're able to satisfy

 

Jess Kismet (04:16.227)

Mm-hmm.

 

Alex Slater (04:20.494)

the requirements of the project so that it's realised and if we get designs that are unbuildable we'll work through them to make sure the intent's there. So that's the way how SharedSpace works.

 

Jess Kismet (04:24.793)

Mm-hmm.

 

Jess Kismet (04:32.911)

So a lot of verification assessments, lot of verification, the compliance, like alternative solutions. Pardon.

 

Alex Slater (04:38.188)

Yeah, and still architectural drawings. And still architectural drawings. So we still need to draw architecturally to come up with a solution. It's just working through all the parameters to make sure that solution is fine.

 

Jess Kismet (04:52.675)

Yeah, right. Well, there you go. I learned something about you today.

 

Alex Slater (04:55.352)

Hahaha

 

Jess Kismet (04:58.487)

So, I mean, you describe yourself as an architect and a building physicist. is that? And you've just described, my next question is about how that dual identity looks in your day to day work. So how do you work across the two companies? Do you work in primarily in one or?

 

Alex Slater (05:12.238)

That's the one company, it's got two business names. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like multiple email addresses and things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a bit of fun.

 

Jess Kismet (05:14.287)

Right, business story, business, businesses, like.

 

Jess Kismet (05:20.161)

Yeah. So you work across both every day and you, collaborate together and, or yeah. Well, such is the life of a business owner. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

 

Alex Slater (05:25.697)

Yeah, sometimes it doesn't work at all.

 

Alex Slater (05:31.83)

Yeah, that's been a fun. So so so take a take on a lot of passive house stuff at the moment. There's quite a number of passive house things. And, and I've also got Katie who's doing a lot of drawing from an architectural perspective. So drafting, drawing design. So it needs, they both need guidance, as in both companies need some kind of leadership, which is great, as all do. And it's bridging my time where I need to

 

Jess Kismet (05:46.681)

Mm-hmm.

 

Jess Kismet (05:55.439)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

 

Alex Slater (06:01.154)

Need to preach it.

 

Jess Kismet (06:02.305)

Mm hmm. Cool. Well, go you.

 

Alex Slater (06:04.707)

Yeah.

 

Jess Kismet (06:08.633)

So, I mean, we talked a little bit about the gray area on your website. says working with gray matter in the gray areas of your building project. Could you elaborate a little bit more? Have you got some examples of what you mean by that?

 

Alex Slater (06:21.518)

yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So typically nerds. So that's the gray matter. It's like, ding, there's all the gray stuff and the gray area is the stuff that people don't necessarily see straight away. And so working in between things could a lot of modern stuff is really on or off and

 

Jess Kismet (06:26.691)

Yes.

 

Jess Kismet (06:41.806)

Mm-hmm.

 

Jess Kismet (06:48.623)

Hmm.

 

Alex Slater (06:50.154)

It's all the numbers in between. It's the numbers between zero and one that we love to work with. So it's not a yes, it's a no. It's a what can you do in the middle space? Yeah.

 

Jess Kismet (06:55.503)

Mm-hmm.

 

Jess Kismet (06:59.727)

Mm-hmm. So do you get a lot of like really challenging stuff that other people can't work through? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

 

Alex Slater (07:06.552)

Probably, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, probably. I had an example, we've done some studies on a firm monastery and that was earth building and how earth building can comply and what's required and how moisture moves through earth buildings and yeah, yeah, yeah. Rammed earth, stone, earthenware. Yeah, rammed earth, yeah.

 

Jess Kismet (07:18.872)

Mmm.

 

Jess Kismet (07:25.123)

like a rammed earth building or like an earth ship or

 

Yeah. Okay. Interesting. And that was in.

 

Alex Slater (07:34.626)

And there's a particular thickness you need. it's in the hotter climate, so it was a bit easier.

 

Jess Kismet (07:37.551)

And do use the PHPP

 

that was also going to say it in Melbourne.

 

Alex Slater (07:44.598)

Nah, warmer climate so could deal with a bit easier. Yeah.

 

Jess Kismet (07:47.715)

Bit easier in terms of insulation and everything. Huh, a monastery, huh? Fascinating. Fascinating.

 

Alex Slater (07:55.854)

So whatever walks in is kind of fun. You're like, yeah, let's have a look at it. What works here, what works there. yeah, so I think that's true physics. I'm often saying that the only Passive House part of the PHPP is the verification sheet. Every other sheet is physics.

 

Jess Kismet (07:59.982)

Yeah.

 

Jess Kismet (08:06.679)

Yeah, solving those sorts of problems.

 

Jess Kismet (08:14.852)

Mm-hmm.

 

Mm-hmm. Yep.

 

Alex Slater (08:19.298)

based on estimates and climate.

 

Jess Kismet (08:21.401)

Yeah.

 

Alex Slater (08:22.838)

and performance. So yeah, that's the only part which is passive house is the verification sheet.

 

Jess Kismet (08:27.584)

You're also a NatHERS assessor. Do you still do NatHERS assessments? Yeah, yeah. Let's chat about the difference between the two. All right. It's a comment I know. let's dive in. Let's dive straight in. What does Alex Slater determine are the differences between NatHERS, which is the National House Energy Rating Scheme, which is what Australia uses for our star rating energy efficiency compliance against the building code.

 

Alex Slater (08:34.06)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

 

Alex Slater (08:39.906)

People love this. People love to see the differences. It's like, let's just, let's just do it. Okay.

 

Jess Kismet (08:59.561)

and the Passive House planning package.

 

Alex Slater (09:02.86)

Yeah, so it really does come down to the type of project you're doing.

 

So you've got NatHERS, which only does residential buildings, typically. And you've got Passive House, which does all buildings. But then there are other verification methods for buildings that aren't residential buildings in the code or the National Construction Code. They're both building physics tools. They both work on assumptions. One's more open source than another. So Passive House has got, you can look at all the data and the...

 

Jess Kismet (09:15.151)

Mm-hmm.

 

Alex Slater (09:40.11)

equations within the PHPP and see what's going on. When NatHERS is a bit closed, fundamental difference would be the way that each deal with cooling, so cooling loads, and also the way they measure the thermal performance of a building. So NatHERS looks at zones, so looks at separate zones, because it's not necessarily targeting air tightness, even though it's functions there to show air tightness. It's looking at the zones and the heat movement between them.

 

Jess Kismet (09:43.011)

Mm-hmm.

 

Jess Kismet (09:52.015)

Mm-hmm.

 

Jess Kismet (10:09.731)

Mm-hmm.

 

Alex Slater (10:10.08)

And Passive House is looking at the whole thermal envelope to say this is one big zone, you're just building the balloon.

 

Jess Kismet (10:12.729)

Yes.

 

Jess Kismet (10:16.483)

Do you think that's a weakness or a strength?

 

Alex Slater (10:20.63)

It depends what you're dealing with. I like to honor the value system that the client brings to the project. So if the client believes that an earth building with thermal mass recharging with a greenhouse to the north is going to provide them more comfort than a completely airtight building, then who am I to say that an airtight building is going to be more comfortable for them? So even if we can measure that an airtight building is more comfortable, psychologically,

 

Jess Kismet (10:44.26)

Mm-hmm.

 

Alex Slater (10:50.274)

the earth building with the greenhouse on the northern side is going to be more comfortable for that client because that's their value system.

 

Jess Kismet (10:58.041)

Hmm. That is a very, very good point. It's not one size fits all, is it? No, they each have their own merits and depending on what you want out of your project, you can benefit from all sorts of different approaches.

 

Alex Slater (11:00.866)

Hahaha

 

It is it. It isn't. Some people have bigger fate than others.

 

Alex Slater (11:14.284)

Yeah.

 

Alex Slater (11:19.757)

Yeah. But you know the feeling, right? If you're really driven by something, you're really driven by something to go and do something. You want to run 100 meters in, you know, 10 seconds or whatever, and you're really driven to do it. And then someone just goes and says, oh, no, can't do it that way. That's the wrong way to do it. You've got to change the way you walk first. Then that's going to, you're really going to be challenged by that as a client. Whereas if you can work with, okay, now I understand how the way your body works. Let's just tweak a few things. It's a very different approach.

 

Jess Kismet (11:29.775)

Mm-hmm.

 

Jess Kismet (11:42.081)

Yeah, yes definitely.

 

Jess Kismet (11:48.953)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

 

Alex Slater (11:49.204)

you feel like you're supported, not fighting. And so that's why anytime that someone comes in with a value system that they have, I'm looking for ways to support that value system in the way they rate their home for their own comfort.

 

Jess Kismet (12:01.615)

And that is extremely important. Yeah. To a human.

 

Alex Slater (12:04.384)

It is. It is. Absolutely. Because it's not necessarily just physical comfort, it's psychological comfort.

 

Jess Kismet (12:13.423)

100%.

 

Alex Slater (12:14.71)

Knowing that you've made a decision on something and it's been supported is way more comfortable than making a decision and saying it's the wrong decision.

 

Jess Kismet (12:18.415)

Mm-hmm.

 

Jess Kismet (12:22.285)

Yeah, despite what I may think about your decision. Yes.

 

Alex Slater (12:27.094)

Yes, exactly. I've been in the office with builders and clients talking about architects and designs and particularly builders, they receive a plan and the plan was there, the client was there and it was about, no, can't do that, can't do this, can't do this. And that's just all negative language. And what that did was it meant that the client had to not trust one party because they're saying there's differences of opinion.

 

Jess Kismet (12:47.247)

Mm.

 

Alex Slater (12:57.538)

Whereas if you go in and saying, yeah, that's cool. Can we adjust this? Can we make it a little bit, you know, a little bit different here? That's a very different way of approaching the same problem. And it just changes the whole energy around it.

 

Jess Kismet (13:04.655)

Mm-hmm.

 

Jess Kismet (13:08.771)

Mm-hmm.

 

Jess Kismet (13:12.407)

It does, changes the whole conversation. That's, that is, yeah.

 

Alex Slater (13:14.944)

It does because they're opportunistic. know, it's not it's not saying, we're the only passive house is the only way to do something because it's the superior standard. Well, hang on. The only part of the passive house planning package, this passive house is the verification sheet. And you tell me otherwise.

 

Jess Kismet (13:29.419)

Mm-hmm. I have to think about it. Give me my...

 

Alex Slater (13:33.198)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but I think there's elements of that that I carry on with me with all these different tools. So going back to the main differences, I would say it's the way that's measured zones versus multiple zones versus one big zone and the way that cooling load is dealt with.

 

Jess Kismet (13:49.103)

Could you elaborate on the cooling load bit?

 

Alex Slater (13:54.562)

Yeah, so calling loads.

 

Australian metrics are pretty good because we've experienced it. Passive house from a cooling load perspective is probably okay for a smaller window area. But once you start to get larger window areas, I don't believe it meets the cooling load that it needs to meet to make it comfortable in summer.

 

Jess Kismet (14:20.131)

You're about Nat Hoes or Pesifassi? Right.

 

Alex Slater (14:21.73)

Passive house. Yeah, yeah, so in terms of the cooling load with passive house, I believe it needs to be a bit more than what it's allowing for once you have a larger window area.

 

Jess Kismet (14:34.991)

Okay, so you think that Passive House misses the mark a little bit there if you've got large windows? You might be right, which is why we have overheating issues in Passive House in Australia.

 

Alex Slater (14:40.426)

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

 

Yeah, exactly. Because designers and architects...

 

aren't necessarily looking at a smaller or optimized window area. Cause they get given a problem by clients and I want to see floor to ceiling windows and these floor to ceiling windows, they've got to see this view of this, big gum tree, which I can't see unless I stand at the window anyway, but that's okay. But I want floor to ceiling windows. So you end up with these 40%, 50 % floor area in window area, which just makes the oven and it's balancing that.

 

Jess Kismet (14:56.345)

Mm-hmm.

 

Jess Kismet (15:02.575)

Mm-hmm.

 

Alex Slater (15:20.014)

It's balancing that with the load that you need. Yes, you can do it. Yes, you can put a better calling system or bigger calling system, but you don't have to put a larger calling system when you deal with the passive as package. So.

 

Jess Kismet (15:27.801)

Mm-hmm.

 

Hmm. Hmm. And the net has cooling load issue or cooling demand, cooling load, sorry.

 

Alex Slater (15:36.544)

Nah. Well, I believe that that's okay. Because it's dealing on a zone basis. Because really, that's where heat really affects it. So if you've got a smaller volume, your heat is affected. the volume is affected more by heat, if it's smaller. So you're going to understand how much overheating that particular zone has.

 

Jess Kismet (15:43.786)

Mm, true, true.

 

Jess Kismet (16:01.911)

much easier to manage.

 

Alex Slater (16:02.274)

Where is it?

 

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, where's Patsy Patsy as the whole thermal envelope?

 

Jess Kismet (16:09.081)

Mm-hmm.

 

Alex Slater (16:10.124)

And so one particular room, if it's north facing and gets a lot of heat and light, might be completely hot compared to a southern room. But in Passive House, it's fine because the whole house isn't over 27 degrees based on the thermal envelope area versus the volume.

 

Jess Kismet (16:27.183)

So would you, if you, when you're, when you're modeling your passive house projects, do you keep your cooling demand? Do you, do you aim for lower than the 15 kilowatt hours per square meter or whatever it is? Do do you aim for 10 or 11 or do you still just, is that a discussion with the client about where that might end up?

 

Alex Slater (16:39.4)

Alex Slater (16:45.614)

That's different. That's different. It's about the sizing of the system.

 

Jess Kismet (16:50.892)

I say, okay.

 

Alex Slater (16:52.59)

So you've got your demand, which is we use this much energy per square meter per year for cooling. But how fast can that energy be injected into the thermal envelope? How fast can it be injected into the indoor space, the volume of air? And I think that's the key.

 

Jess Kismet (17:00.719)

Mm.

 

Alex Slater (17:13.11)

If you've got large windows, you want to be able to inject cool thin really quickly.

 

Jess Kismet (17:17.327)

using mechanical mains. So you would.

 

Alex Slater (17:19.532)

Yeah.

 

Alex Slater (17:22.85)

I also run a, I've run a, actually I've worked out a way to do a, a free running mode in passive house. So I can compare free running mode in free money, free running. That might be a blooper or you can keep it if it's funny, but yeah, free running mode in passive house. that is a hero's hero software does the free running mode anyway. And I've worked out a way to pull out the data and I'll explain free running by soon, but to pull out the data from the passive house package.

 

Jess Kismet (17:29.775)

What you mean?

 

Jess Kismet (17:34.575)

I'm keeping that.

 

Alex Slater (17:52.814)

to end up with an equivalent free running mode. So free running mode is about how many hours or percentage of time during the year that the building is outside the thermostat settings of say for passive hours, there'd be 20 to 25 degrees. In NCC 2022, I think it's also 20 to 25 in most cases. In previous NCCs it's been 17 to 27.

 

Jess Kismet (18:08.836)

Mm-hmm.

 

Alex Slater (18:22.862)

perhaps in some climate zones. So it's, yeah, it's, it's seen how many hours are outside of the thermostat settings. That's free running mode. If there was no, if there was no air conditioning or heating, if there's no mechanical heating or cooling, yeah, figure out a way to pull that out.

 

Jess Kismet (18:32.877)

Okay, and you figured out a way to...

 

Jess Kismet (18:40.751)

Okay, so let's just step back for a second. I'm trying to extrapolate Alex's brain here. What you said about the cooling, the mechanical cooling, does that mean that you would oversize your air conditioner in a certified passive house by a small amount in order to inject that cool thing there quickly?

 

Alex Slater (19:03.288)

Compared to what the PHPP says, yes. But compared to what Australian calculations are, probably tough. So still less cooling than a standard blow through home.

 

Jess Kismet (19:06.604)

So you go like a.

 

Jess Kismet (19:15.468)

Yeah, yep, yep, yep.

 

Alex Slater (19:20.29)

But it's, yeah, without any air tightness, the blow away, it's like the three little pigs, right? You've got the straws, the sticks and the brick. Yeah, yeah. that's an interesting one, just a sidetrack. The hardest way to build a passive house is with timber frame and insulation. Yeah, that's the way that we love to do it.

 

Jess Kismet (19:20.345)

Blow through home, meaning your standard Australian home. Yeah. Blow through. Got it. Yep. Yeah. Yeah.

 

Yep.

 

Jess Kismet (19:37.155)

Yeah, go.

 

Jess Kismet (19:46.479)

Wait,

 

Alex Slater (19:48.312)

But it's the hardest way because it's not one solid material.

 

Jess Kismet (19:49.357)

Is it cause it-

 

Jess Kismet (19:53.507)

So you think you're saying that a certified passive house is easier with one solid wall structure. Okay.

 

Alex Slater (19:58.402)

Yeah, 100 % it's like concrete or CLT or hemp or...

 

Jess Kismet (20:03.161)

Well, we don't really, we don't take into account the cladding. If it's a light, we're only taking into account the timber and the insulation. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

 

Alex Slater (20:10.38)

I know, but it's still the hardest way to build it. Like air tightness membranes and da da da da da.

 

Alex Slater (20:17.486)

That was a side track. Love tangents.

 

Jess Kismet (20:20.429)

Little, little nugget of gold there. Absolutely. so pick clients who might not be familiar. mean, I guess anyone who is going to go to Alex later is familiar with passive house planning package. They're already familiar with PHPP because that is your specialty. And that was probably going to be why people are going to come to you. But what do you.

 

Alex Slater (20:25.23)

talking about the three pigs and the sticks, know, that just had to happen.

 

Jess Kismet (20:49.397)

How do you communicate the value of the PHPP and its outputs to your clients?

 

Alex Slater (20:56.691)

I have generated the RePHorter which pulls things out.

 

Jess Kismet (20:59.171)

You have, and it's very clever.

 

Alex Slater (21:05.678)

So it pulls things out visually. Most people are visual data analysts. I wouldn't say learners, but most people can understand the graph better than they can read it. Read a paragraph to learn them the same thing. So it's pulling out that data. I think the most popular one is the window placement one, which tells you where the window area is and where the shading is.

 

Jess Kismet (21:07.585)

Yeah, gruff.

 

Jess Kismet (21:18.5)

Mm-hmm.

 

Jess Kismet (21:23.183)

Mm-hmm.

 

Jess Kismet (21:27.031)

Yes, that is a good one.

 

Yeah. Yes, I've seen your reporter.

 

Alex Slater (21:34.06)

And yeah, plenty of examples on that on the website as well.

 

Jess Kismet (21:37.655)

Yeah. Okay. Well, I'll put a link, I'll put a link to Alex's Passive House reporter. in the show notes, I recommend you go and have a look. It's pretty impressive. The PHPP, if you have not seen the Passive House planning package, it is, I don't know how many tabs, like 20, 30 tabs of numbers and, and it's a bit overwhelming when you look at it. Alex's whipped up an amazing Excel spreadsheet that extrapolates the data from

 

Alex Slater (21:55.5)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

 

Jess Kismet (22:07.491)

the PHPP and makes it pretty. So I recommend you go and have a look at his, his example on his website. No, this notes are in the show link is in the show notes. It's pretty, it's pretty cool.

 

Alex Slater (22:17.934)

Cool, thank you. And remember that the only passive house part of the PHPP is the verification sheet.

 

Jess Kismet (22:24.451)

Got it. Got it. That might have to be the title of this episode. Gotta get that message home.

 

Alex Slater (22:31.566)

That's funny.

 

Jess Kismet (22:37.071)

So, how, have you ever had a time where you had to advocate for Passive House in a room of people who just don't get it?

 

Alex Slater (22:45.56)

Yeah, lot of that's just conversational for me. I've got, I've heard a number of times that I've got a bit of a skill for simplifying stuff.

 

Jess Kismet (22:53.583)

Yeah, I have a feeling you'd find that pretty easy and not frustrating. Like you wouldn't get, you wouldn't get, like some of us sort of, well, I mean, I don't, but there's a, you know, an overriding frustration that people just don't get. They just don't get it. And you don't know what you don't know and blah, blah. But I think that you enjoy those sorts of conversations. Yeah.

 

Alex Slater (22:57.836)

So just be able to, no fuss, try it.

 

Alex Slater (23:11.651)

Yeah.

 

Yeah, I do because I honor my own value system and I honor their value system. And I think that's really key in the conversation. If I'm not honoring my, if I'm not honoring the person's value system, then there's no way I'm going to be able to demonstrate something.

 

Jess Kismet (23:21.293)

Yeah.

 

Jess Kismet (23:28.003)

Yep. And how do you find out what that is? Do you have a set of questions? Yeah. Do you have like, yeah. Yeah.

 

Alex Slater (23:32.522)

conversation. you can tell I just I kind of tell I kind of tell when people are out there to sell me stuff. And yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So if it's it's connected with them and really understanding where they're coming from. And knowing that if I get a client that wants an extension on a home, for example, I'm really asking them where

 

Jess Kismet (23:41.369)

So it's like a psychological assessment.

 

Alex Slater (24:00.62)

that information's coming from. So why do they actually need an extension? What's the true outcome? Well, the extension is always the product. The passive house is always the product of the true outcome. And so understanding what a person's true outcome is, their desire, their next step allows me to connect with them and know where their values stand. And if it has to be passive house because

 

Jess Kismet (24:23.044)

Mm-hmm.

 

Alex Slater (24:27.584)

It's completely focused on the label and passive house. Then I don't change that. But on, in terms of the question, if I'm in a room of people that don't understand passive house or just doubters or whatever, I asked them where they're, where they're coming from. And I've been able to use the PHPP with earth buildings. I've been able to use the PHPP on standard constructions because it's a really useful building physics tool.

 

and you can still explain their outcomes in a physics way without even mentioning the word passive house by talking about windows, window area, glass, glass types, floors. Okay.

 

Jess Kismet (25:05.529)

Mm-hmm.

 

Jess Kismet (25:09.231)

Sorry Alex, sorry, me one second.

 

Jess Kismet (25:15.225)

I just felt that rising up in my chest.

 

Alex Slater (25:16.706)

WAAA

 

caught a frog.

 

Jess Kismet (25:26.285)

All right, let's get back to where we

 

Alex Slater (25:28.3)

Yeah, so talking through a building that's, what it is and using the PHPP to do so. So talking about windows and window area, glass types, floor types, insulation types, orientation, comfort, air tightness, balloons, know, jackets, Eskies, refrigerators, and knowing all these things to say, yeah, jumpers, the whole lot and being allowed

 

Jess Kismet (25:48.367)

Yeah.

 

Alex Slater (25:57.952)

or allowing yourself to connect deeper with a person's understanding of their world means that they're able to understand my world a bit better. And so that's, really love those. Like those conversations are great because it allows you to see the kind of people that exist and, and curious, like I'm always curious about what people bring to the table. So that's another cool one. And, and

 

Jess Kismet (26:08.367)

Mm-hmm.

 

Jess Kismet (26:12.687)

Mm-hmm.

 

Jess Kismet (26:24.239)

Mm-hmm. Mm.

 

Alex Slater (26:27.276)

And I've never said there's only one tool to do it. That's another cool one. There's always something different. There's always something in the middle that you can work with.

 

Jess Kismet (26:30.041)

Mm-hmm.

 

Jess Kismet (26:35.075)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

 

I like the way you think. What is one misconception that you think architects or builders often have about building science and how do you gently correct that?

 

Alex Slater (26:52.396)

it's all about waterproofing is the misconception.

 

Jess Kismet (26:55.213)

Okay, go on.

 

Alex Slater (26:58.35)

So we're worried and focused about the downpipes and gutters and making sure that everything is tidy. I remember going to an event and there's a, I guess he was a building physicist or builder and he's talking about building physics and purely talking about downpipes and gutters and saying it's all about the way that water flows off the building.

 

So that's why I think that's a common misconception is that yes, it's part of it. Yes, it's a very big and obvious part of it of keeping things dry. Totally. get that. But I guess you could compare it to something. You could compare it to say an emergency versus something that slowly grows. And what I'm talking about here is interstitial mould or interstitial moisture compared to just having the downpour and the leak.

 

Jess Kismet (27:29.763)

Mm-hmm.

 

Mm-hmm. Yes.

 

Jess Kismet (27:49.167)

Mm-hmm.

 

Jess Kismet (27:54.457)

Mm-hmm.

 

Alex Slater (27:54.968)

which is what happens if a tree falls across the road, that's an emergency. Or you run into a wall or you have a car accident or something, whatever, that's an emergency that's right in your face, that's done. We can solve that by understanding how to prevent that. But it's all the niggling things. It's the way that depression occurs. It's the way that all these other things happen that people get eaten away over time and all the interactions they have with others and the interactions they have with the world are bringing them down slowly.

 

Jess Kismet (28:08.729)

Mm-hmm.

 

Alex Slater (28:24.354)

Now that's interstitial moisture management. so preventing that stuff is key.

 

Jess Kismet (28:27.215)

No!

 

I feel like my heart hurts hearing that. Yeah, it is. You're right.

 

Alex Slater (28:35.714)

But it is, it really is, it's an analogy to use when you're dealing with all the stuff that's in the middle of the home. Yeah, on the outside on the surface, it's totally fine, put a facade on, we can do stuff, but deep down, the humans are hurting, or deep down the house is hurting.

 

Jess Kismet (28:42.169)

Mm-hmm.

 

Jess Kismet (28:49.435)

my god. this is getting too deep for me, Alex. No, I love it. I love it.

 

Alex Slater (28:52.75)

Alex Slater (28:57.366)

And those analogies really work and that's a really cool way to allow the myths to go because people feel that and they get it and they think, yeah, well, I can prevent rain by wearing a rain jacket, but what kind of inner work do I have to do to prevent all the other stuff? Well, that's the kind of stuff you've got to do with your house.

 

Jess Kismet (29:04.782)

Mm-hmm.

 

Jess Kismet (29:18.391)

Yeah, that's actually a really…

 

beautiful way and human way of looking at it. It's not just the science of mould takes 24 hours, 48 hours to germinate or, know, vapour drive. It's the slow burn.

 

Alex Slater (29:43.34)

Yeah.

 

Jess Kismet (29:47.265)

like depression. Like mould equals depression. Depression equals mould

 

Alex Slater (29:50.028)

Yeah.

 

Yeah, something like that. But we love the stats, we love the numbers. But sometimes the numbers can distract us and take us away from the actual problem.

 

Jess Kismet (30:05.807)

Hmm.

 

I'm going to have to ponder this one.

 

Alex Slater (30:10.286)

I

 

Jess Kismet (30:13.103)

all right. How do you?

 

Alex Slater (30:17.634)

So building physics and health, that's a new topic, isn't it?

 

Jess Kismet (30:20.879)

What do you mean? Yeah, that's, that's what it's, that's what it's all about. Isn't it?

 

Alex Slater (30:22.904)

building physics and Relating that to health.

 

So using health analogies is key.

 

Jess Kismet (30:30.765)

Yeah, mental health and physical health, financial health. Absolutely.

 

Alex Slater (30:33.398)

Yeah. Yeah.

 

Jess Kismet (30:44.929)

How do you balance the performance goals with the creative or aesthetic ambitions of design or that your clients want? Have you ever had to compromise or convince someone, convince someone else not to?

 

Alex Slater (30:58.572)

not to do what anything.

 

Jess Kismet (30:59.535)

Hang on, that question doesn't make sense. How do you balance the performance goals with the creative or aesthetic ambitions of design?

 

Alex Slater (31:10.214)

I go back to honoring and honoring the design for one of these. And if you go one step further back.

 

Jess Kismet (31:16.175)

So would you go for those values over performance goals?

 

Alex Slater (31:25.164)

No, not necessarily.

 

Jess Kismet (31:27.225)

Mm-hmm.

 

Alex Slater (31:29.502)

So I could also say, yes, I would, but it depends on where the client started on their journey. And it depends off the value system they're bringing to the table. So a client may, for example, go to an architect and the architect has a different value system. But then they come to me for energy rating advice or something like that, or energy advice, whatever we want to call it, that thing.

 

Jess Kismet (31:37.955)

Yeah.

 

Jess Kismet (31:58.65)

Mm-hmm.

 

Alex Slater (31:59.678)

And I might understand that their value system is in conflict with what the design is saying.

 

Jess Kismet (32:05.871)

Mm-hmm.

 

Alex Slater (32:07.126)

And so I would go along those lines of, I actually feel that there's something that we can change here. But if I feel that they're really, really, that's their design and they want it, and that's how it's got to be. And they've got to have these Northern views, then I'll do my best to meet that. And then what drives it is cost.

 

Jess Kismet (32:11.833)

See you.

 

Jess Kismet (32:24.623)

So have you ever actually, have you ever come across a project where you feel like the client is going in a certain direction that are against their values because they're being convinced to do something by say an architect and then you kind of redirect them?

 

Alex Slater (32:44.439)

The biggest diversion is resale value.

 

Jess Kismet (32:50.477)

Yeah. Yeah.

 

Alex Slater (32:54.606)

That's the biggest diversion and I've probably answered the question with that one sentence.

 

Jess Kismet (32:57.826)

Yeah, yes.

 

It's conflicting, isn't it? It's conflicting. Yeah.

 

Alex Slater (33:03.542)

It It creates conflict. the same as I mentioned that I mentioned that the particular builder when the client came in and said, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

 

Jess Kismet (33:16.078)

Mm-hmm.

 

Alex Slater (33:18.87)

It's good to say no, but if you want to value someone's personality or aesthetic or value system, then it's good to say yes and. I see where you're coming from. Can we tweak this? Or in the case of resale value, I understand it's like having three bedrooms and every bedroom has got an ensuite and every ensuite has a double sink and six toilets. It's great. However,

 

Jess Kismet (33:30.819)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

 

Alex Slater (33:48.342)

Is it practical? And I often ask, do you want to clean that many bathrooms?

 

Jess Kismet (33:52.911)

No. Immediately no.

 

Alex Slater (33:56.526)

Exactly. So you're understanding the value system there straight away, right? And then, oh, actually, that kitchen's really, really big. And how many times do you cook? it worth being 30 % of the cost of the house?

 

Jess Kismet (33:59.695)

Mm-hmm.

 

Jess Kismet (34:08.665)

Mm. Mm.

 

Alex Slater (34:11.668)

you've just shown that in a different light. No, actually, I don't think it is. Well, can we rework that? Can we save some money here? Those windows, they're really, really big. But did you realise that your back fence is only four meters away from your window, so you don't really see much anyway? that's true. Can we reduce the bit so it's focused on this particular tree? Yes, we can. Well, there's performance.

 

Jess Kismet (34:14.735)

Mm-hmm.

 

Jess Kismet (34:39.351)

It sounds like a very,

 

Jess Kismet (34:45.081)

Heartfelt well, I don't know why the heartfelt is coming to me. It's holistic and it's human. It's very human and it's very Individual and

 

Alex Slater (34:50.904)

human.

 

Alex Slater (35:00.686)

It's colourful, right? It's still colourful. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

 

Jess Kismet (35:01.711)

so colourful and it's inspiring and it's all giving me all the warm fuzzies right now. Really thinking about the person that you are actually helping. So forget Nat Hurs and Passive House.

 

Alex Slater (35:10.914)

Yeah, and you can call me Hugh man. You know, like the Hugh, like H-U-E man. That'd be good, wouldn't it?

 

Jess Kismet (35:19.855)

All of sudden I'm forgetting about like numbers and I'm just like, yeah.

 

Alex Slater (35:26.048)

Yeah, totally right. And that's what we've got to do. We've to be really good at the numbers. We've got to know exactly what we're doing. And I'm great. Like I'm great with Excel. I'm great with the passive house. I'm great with those systems. However, ultimately going back and understanding the client and understanding the homeowner and understanding your parties there is going to provide the best solution regardless of what value or metric or standard or whatever they want to go for.

 

Jess Kismet (35:30.293)

Yeah, yes. Yes, you are. Yeah.

 

Jess Kismet (35:54.563)

Have you put a team around yourself of consultants and builders and things who are all aligned with this way of thinking?

 

Alex Slater (36:04.43)

It's hard because of changes, but I'd love to. It's hard. It's hard because when you're dealing with people's value systems, they're all shapes and sizes. So what I'd really prefer to do, and I've done in the past, is say, hey, client great, I understand you. I'm pretty sure this builder will align with you. And I'm the one who connects them, rather than being saying everyone's got to align with me. that's...

 

Jess Kismet (36:06.543)

Mm. Mm.

 

Jess Kismet (36:15.618)

Hmm. Mm-hmm.

 

Jess Kismet (36:24.995)

Mm-hmm.

 

Mm.

 

Alex Slater (36:31.65)

That would be my ego speaking saying everyone's in my system and you have to be in my system for me to work with you. No, no, hang on. What about the what ifs? What about the grays? The grays of the building industry.

 

Jess Kismet (36:41.23)

And do you find that variation difficult?

 

Alex Slater (36:47.746)

Difficult? No, because you often connect with the right people.

 

Jess Kismet (36:48.76)

Yeah, like because some people come up with systems and they rely on those systems and predictable outcomes and, they, that's, that's sort of how they, how they operate. Whereas your approach is sort of quite personalised to each of your clients. do you, okay. Yeah.

 

Alex Slater (36:55.266)

Yeah.

 

Alex Slater (37:05.582)

It's still a system. It's still a system, but that's at a higher level than one that's just right in your face. And I say that in the sense of, you go, if you go back to first principles, you understand physics more than just using the tool and thinking what the outcome is. So if you put the numbers in the passive, our spits out a number. Great. But if you then dive into the Excel sheet and work out why it's spitting out the number, then you're going to have a better idea of what adjustments to make.

 

Jess Kismet (37:20.431)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

 

Jess Kismet (37:34.644)

And that's where the expertise comes in.

 

Alex Slater (37:36.844)

Yeah. And so it's still a system connecting people with like-minded people. still a system. It's just one step different from saying my value system is yellow and I have to attract builders and clients who are all yellow. I'm saying that there can be any color they like, and I'll match the blues of the blue and the yellow to the yellow and the red to the red, et cetera.

 

Jess Kismet (37:41.892)

Mm-hmm.

 

Jess Kismet (37:53.359)

You

 

Jess Kismet (38:00.036)

Mm-hmm.

 

Alex Slater (38:02.382)

because that usually happens, usually have a conversation and usually then the next week talk with a builder who aligns with the client.

 

Jess Kismet (38:08.737)

I know, I just believe that kind of stuff happens, doesn't it? Yeah, yeah.

 

Alex Slater (38:10.254)

It's synchronicity, right? And so it actually does work. And just trusting that it's going to work is a really cool thing.

 

Jess Kismet (38:16.687)

Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Very cool. If you could change one thing in how the industry, Australian industry approaches design or compliance, the Australian construction industry, what would that be?

 

Alex Slater (38:31.774)

is actually a really cool opportunity with performance solutions because it allows for professional advice.

 

And that actually means that you can really dive into something properly and address it based on understanding the client and the builder and the surveyor and the engineer and all the things coming together and saying that this is the best solution for this particular project. So.

 

Jess Kismet (38:40.557)

Yeah.

 

Jess Kismet (38:58.255)

So guess in my experience, performance solutions always seemed like the cheapest easiest way to get around the building code. wasn't, it never felt to me to be integris ways to create, to chase after compliance with the building code.

 

Alex Slater (39:14.275)

Hmm.

 

Alex Slater (39:21.334)

I guess it's,

 

It's the intent that, it's the intent you put to it.

 

Jess Kismet (39:24.909)

I know what you're

 

Alex Slater (39:29.614)

It's like saying you can say that someone's, here's a good example, you can say that someone's being judgmental of someone else. But if the intent is to actually hurt the person, that's very different from the intent being trying to help the person.

 

Jess Kismet (39:47.183)

Mm-hmm.

 

Alex Slater (39:49.632)

And so the same with the building code. If there's something in the performance solution or something that's about a unique artisan way to do something, because there's no other way to do it because, you know, the architect's gone mad or something, then, then you can put together something that works for all parties. and earth homes is a brilliant example. When I do earth home ratings, I'm running NatHERS I'm running Passive House, I'm running Spes 44 and I'm weighing them off each other.

 

Jess Kismet (40:00.941)

huh.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Alex Slater (40:18.636)

and saying with these three tools running in synchronicity, these are the better outcomes or best outcomes for this project. And then signing it off as that.

 

Jess Kismet (40:29.263)

Could you give the listener a bit of a rundown on what's Spes 44 is?

 

Alex Slater (40:33.644)

yeah, Spes44. It comes after Spes43.

 

Jess Kismet (40:38.223)

Good.

 

Alex Slater (40:39.116)

Yeah, yeah, but further than that, it's a standard where you actually calculate or you can determine your heating and cooling loads and total heating and total heating, cooling energy load. So heating load, cooling load and energy load. And what it does is it gives you a value to work towards or to have as a limit. So in terms of passive house, the

 

threshold is 15 kilowatt hours per meter squared per annum. We will get a similar threshold in megajoules per square meter per annum for performance, for Spes 44 as part of a performance solution. And that's the limit you have to meet.

 

Jess Kismet (41:18.755)

Mm-hmm.

 

And what software do you use to get that?

 

Alex Slater (41:25.39)

Oh, passive house. So I get, I get, I get, I get, I, or the passive house package, passive house planning package, all the other bits that are on the verification sheet. Yeah. So, so, so here's that. And that gives me a, a value per square meter of mega joules or kilowatt hours. And if that meets Spes 44, it just comes as part of my report. And it'll say, it meets Spes 44 in heating. Yes, it meets it in cooling, or yes, it meets it in both.

 

Jess Kismet (41:34.645)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

 

Jess Kismet (41:48.942)

Mm-hmm.

 

Jess Kismet (41:54.957)

Mm-hmm.

 

Alex Slater (41:55.2)

or either option or variant of that. And that allows me to say, yeah, well, it's meeting the code in this way. And this is an ISO 44, like an internationally recognized tool.

 

ISO 144, think it's 1044, internationally recognized tool. And it meets our SPES 44. And the code refers to that standard, that ISO standard, as in we recognize internationally recognized tools. So put two and two together and you don't need to necessarily do it another way.

 

Jess Kismet (42:09.475)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

 

Jess Kismet (42:18.35)

Mm-hmm.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Jess Kismet (42:30.659)

I think, excuse me, my chest is completely clogged now after I had that little fit before.

 

Jess Kismet (42:45.966)

Okay.

 

Jess Kismet (42:52.972)

I

 

Jess Kismet (42:57.507)

don't really understand Spes 44, but that's okay, moving on.

 

Alex Slater (43:02.134)

get it. Should we explain it again as a blooper?

 

Jess Kismet (43:05.177)

Well, I mean, is it just like a sheet you fill out? Is it like a form? Like you calculate your heating and cooling demand, but then you demand, the PHPP calculates cooling, heating and cooling demand, and you're talking in kilowatt hours per square meter per annum, and you're talking about megajoules per square meter per annum. So how do you convert that? So you convert that from the PHPP into

 

Alex Slater (43:10.178)

You calculate, Yeah, yeah. And you see if it meets it. And then any tool can meet that.

 

Alex Slater (43:25.186)

Yeah, yeah.

 

Alex Slater (43:29.058)

Yeah, energy, energy ready.

 

Jess Kismet (43:34.157)

megajoules per square meter per atom. then, yep, couldn't you get megajoules out of NatHERS?

 

Alex Slater (43:34.978)

Yep, yep, and if it meets it.

 

Alex Slater (43:42.094)

Yeah, you can. And you can do it on that host rating, but because I've done a PHPP, then I may as well use the PHPP.

 

Jess Kismet (43:43.257)

So you just decide to.

 

Jess Kismet (43:47.467)

I see. you'd rather than double handle it, you just do PHPP and then it's then it's best 44 and that's compliance. Okay, that makes more sense now. No, that's okay.

 

Alex Slater (43:51.192)

And that's it. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Do want me to explain that again?

 

Or you can put that in as a, you can put that little additional bit at the end. That'd be really funny. For more information on this, see the end.

 

Jess Kismet (44:02.455)

Yeah, I will, I will, Yeah.

 

No, I'm going to actually connect that up. I'm going to take out the bit where I was coughing and spluttering and saying I didn't understand and I'm going to marry them up because that matters. So you would use Passive House on its own if it's going to be certified. You would use NatHERS on its own for a star rating over seven stars and you would use SPES 44 in conjunction with PHPP if it doesn't quite meet Passive House requirements instead of doing NatHERS assessment as well, but it'll meet the code. Okay. And you've got an easy way, pardon.

 

Alex Slater (44:31.49)

We will make the code. Yep. Or elemental provisions. Or elemental provisions or things to satisfy. Yeah. Yeah.

 

Jess Kismet (44:38.605)

Yes, yes. And you've got an easy way in one of your magical spreadsheets to convert these numbers and just done.

 

Alex Slater (44:43.864)

Yep. Yep. And I also give him an equivalent start rating. Yep.

 

Jess Kismet (44:47.023)

Yep. Clever man.

 

Alex Slater (44:54.744)

Bit of fun. See what you can do next. Yeah.

 

Jess Kismet (44:55.855)

Spreadsheets Okay.

 

Is there anything that you believed Alex in your early career about buildings or performance or compliance or architecture that you've now completely changed your mind about?

 

Alex Slater (45:18.136)

Yeah, I didn't believe buildings need roofs.

 

Jess Kismet (45:21.807)

What?

 

Alex Slater (45:24.206)

That was a joke.

 

Jess Kismet (45:26.913)

Okay.

 

Alex Slater (45:26.99)

That could go in. That's fine. But I did.

 

I love being practical. It's like building stuff. And...

 

Alex Slater (45:41.632)

I did feel that we've always been building too big. Even as a child, felt things were really big. And that came in through just how I felt in spaces.

 

Jess Kismet (45:45.359)

Mm-hmm.

 

Jess Kismet (45:55.065)

Mm-hmm.

 

Alex Slater (45:56.758)

I also felt that buildings were too arty because of my practical sense. But that's now understanding that imbalance is really good. And that's the human aspect. Actually, you need something that's beautiful.

 

And so that's come to us. Yeah. And actually I can change that. don't need to, don't even, don't need to be rigid and scientific everywhere. And that was really cool lesson. Yeah.

 

Jess Kismet (46:17.763)

Mm-hmm.

 

That's coming through in everything you're saying. That sort of attitude.

 

Alex Slater (46:25.388)

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So that's a really big thing that has a shift, which is, which is cool. It's not just practical. I loved it. I love, I love art in practical ways. So you can make something look really good without making it expensive.

 

Jess Kismet (46:29.519)

Mm-hmm.

 

Jess Kismet (46:38.743)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, and that can be a part of what gets lost between, in all of these disciplines in our industry with the architects and engineers and consultants and builders. There doesn't tend to be a lot of crossover. And what you've just talked about is the crossover between the academic and the art.

 

Alex Slater (46:40.29)

And that's the key.

 

Alex Slater (47:02.008)

the Venn diagram, that's the grey area in a nutshell. So 100 % working with the grey matter in the grey area. You've got to be on it from a nerdy intellectual point of view to know that the outcome is the grey area.

 

Jess Kismet (47:05.964)

Mm-hmm. It is.

 

Jess Kismet (47:16.943)

Yep. No, there's a quote. All right. What advice would you give to someone, maybe a university student or an early career architect or builder? What advice would you give to them about integrating building science into their work?

 

Alex Slater (47:38.68)

Follow your dreams every time. Know what you know is right. Understand your value system.

 

and use your value system without necessarily negating someone else's.

 

Jess Kismet (48:00.099)

can be very tricky. But from a professional standpoint, that's where the value is from a professional standpoint is getting that right.

 

Alex Slater (48:01.654)

It can. It can.

 

Alex Slater (48:13.784)

Yeah.

 

Alex Slater (48:18.764)

And to elaborate on that, I feel that it's not about negating. If I know something that they need to know, I'd rather expand them. I'd rather empower them to see the same information than deny them the opportunity. But I need to work from the language that they're using.

 

Jess Kismet (48:39.839)

Mm. Yep. And that's important too is, is adopting language that the person you are speaking with can understand.

 

Alex Slater (48:42.691)

Yeah.

 

Alex Slater (48:49.472)

Exactly. Yeah, exactly. So follow your dreams is the biggest key. And in order to do that, it's about knowing when to say stuff and not negating something. So don't go around saying, nah, can't do this, can't do that, can't do that. Say, well, yeah, you can do that. Can we adjust this?

 

Jess Kismet (48:50.415)

Hmm.

 

Jess Kismet (49:09.124)

It's like life advice Alex. Wait, my camera's gone flurry because I moved it.

 

Alex Slater (49:16.078)

That's all right, I can see it.

 

Jess Kismet (49:17.999)

You bet. looks like shit. Focus. There we go. Okay. This conversation is cool. Did you have a mentor early on who influenced? I think you have had some pretty strong mentors in your life, haven't you? Yeah. Do tell. Yes, please.

 

Alex Slater (49:38.06)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

 

Yeah, do tell. I like working with numbers of people and pick up a lot of elements from different mentors. In terms of architecture, Jeff's been really a key mentor with that. Jeff is the other director of the company and in many ways sees art in practical ways as well. And it's about solutions based and

 

Jess Kismet (50:01.102)

Mm-hmm.

 

Jess Kismet (50:06.275)

Mm-hmm.

 

Alex Slater (50:09.908)

and outcome based rather than being an architectural statement. And that's been really key because that's something that's aligned with me as a kid as well. It's about practical stuff.

 

Jess Kismet (50:24.751)

I'm exploiting all over the place. Yep.

 

Alex Slater (50:27.502)

So that's been really, really key. and just, yeah, I've had a few, I mean, co co-students, co-workers, just conversations, and they tend to influence the little thoughts I've had. And mainly it's about, it's about smoothing the rough edges, knowing where I am rough or can come across as a bit demanding or something, which is rare.

 

But those occasions, yeah, yeah. Those occasions and you work through it and say, okay, well, that's cool. What am I learning from this? And I think that's the key to mentorship. students, the students I've taught at Polytechnic, at universities, I'm as much a student as they are. Because they're bringing in a different vision, a different set of eyes.

 

Jess Kismet (50:54.584)

You demanding.

 

Yeah.

 

Alex Slater (51:23.498)

a different almost culture. I've been so many years younger as different perspective of the world. that's a really cool perspective. can work with that?

 

Jess Kismet (51:26.095)

Mm-hmm.

 

Jess Kismet (51:30.329)

Mm-hmm.

 

Jess Kismet (51:33.665)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Instead of saying, no, no, no, my way is the right way.

 

Alex Slater (51:35.597)

Yeah.

 

Alex Slater (51:39.874)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, it's been open to mentorship really.

 

Jess Kismet (51:43.503)

Open to mentorship. Love it.

 

Alex Slater (51:45.07)

in all aspects.

 

Jess Kismet (51:50.0)

Have you ever made any big mistakes on any projects that you still kind of carry around with you and go, I wish I hadn't done that.

 

Alex Slater (51:57.734)

there's one, there's one in Canberra where we got a, we got three tenders in and one builder was like way, way, way,

 

Jess Kismet (52:09.209)

Mm-hmm.

 

Alex Slater (52:10.334)

and we went with them, but they obviously forgot something in their price. So because there are all these variations coming in afterwards. So we figured, nah, next time I'm just going to ask them if they've forgotten something, which you do. You do. You have to. But they were adamant that they hadn't. So it's about knowing if they had or not. So that's and I actually carry. don't carry that stuff.

 

Jess Kismet (52:15.107)

no.

 

Yep.

 

Jess Kismet (52:27.115)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep.

 

Mmm.

 

Jess Kismet (52:38.307)

Yeah, good. That's good.

 

Alex Slater (52:38.646)

at all. So it's not something I carry with me because I would be a, you know, traumatised wreck or something if I did, but, but it's about, it's about knowing what mistakes you've made and learning from them. And that's a good, that's a key, that's a key take out.

 

Jess Kismet (52:46.425)

You

 

Jess Kismet (52:56.525)

Yeah, yes.

 

Alex Slater (52:58.284)

Yeah, and I let it go. Let it go somewhere else.

 

Jess Kismet (53:00.973)

Mm-hmm. Good. I'm glad that you don't carry that with you. It's probably a bit of a torturous question. What do you still feel really guilty about?

 

Alex Slater (53:10.668)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And there's so many examples of all the good jobs and they've really just been blessings. You look at where I've come from and know what I've learned. yeah, that was a big lesson I spoke about with the tender process, but there's all these micro lessons, there's all these lessons through the really good jobs. Yes, there are dull moments in the good jobs.

 

Jess Kismet (53:13.644)

Jess Kismet (53:27.289)

Mm-hmm.

 

Alex Slater (53:38.478)

100 % every time there's a dull moment in the good job, I can guarantee you that there is going to be a dull moment in the good job. And that's the kind of stuff you learn from.

 

Jess Kismet (53:41.007)

Mm. Mm.

 

Jess Kismet (53:47.937)

Mm-hmm. Dull moment. What do you mean by dull moment?

 

Alex Slater (53:51.618)

something that's not necessarily in tune or you've forgotten something or you've messed something up or, and perfection is an illusion anyway, because it's constantly changing. Even after the house or the building is built, it's not to the drawings because the drawings are a diagram.

 

Jess Kismet (53:53.871)

Perfect.

 

Jess Kismet (54:10.255)

Mm.

 

Exactly.

 

Alex Slater (54:14.028)

And even the PHPP is a perfection illusion as well. It's always an estimate because there's no human behavior factor in that one.

 

Jess Kismet (54:17.568)

Mm. Mm-hmm.

 

Jess Kismet (54:21.991)

Mm-hmm. Even NatHouse actually assumes human behavior though. NatHouse assumes the star rating energy software assumes when you're going to put a jumper on and when you're going to, you know, when you're going to open windows and when you're going to... Yeah. Mm. And cooking oven. Yeah. Yeah.

 

Alex Slater (54:28.355)

Yeah.

 

Alex Slater (54:33.066)

Exactly.

 

Exactly. Or they all have to. They all have to end up with an outcome because it involves heat gains and clothes and PMV and cooking. And if people don't cook, there's examples of homes being too cold because the people aren't in there. Well, yeah, hello. You know, of course. But so it's always an estimation tool. Nothing's ever perfect. So to strive for perfection is striving for an unattainable goal in my book.

 

Jess Kismet (54:55.047)

Hahaha!

 

Jess Kismet (54:58.729)

Mm. Mm-hmm.

 

Jess Kismet (55:04.993)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Also very good advice to the young crew.

 

What do your friends and family actually think you do for work and how close are they to being right?

 

Alex Slater (55:18.816)

I don't think different things. I love it.

 

Jess Kismet (55:21.071)

I wouldn't, if I had to, you know, it's funny when you sit around with friends like, and you all talk about your jobs, but no one has any idea what anyone actually does. Like, yeah. Yeah, exactly. There's so many nuances. Yeah. Yeah. We love it. Yeah. You go in that category.

 

Alex Slater (55:33.806)

because it's just a label. It's just a label. Yeah, yeah, but I'm label-less. Totally label-less. Yeah, I love it. You can call me an architect, but I might be a, you know, I might help someone with their health. And then call me someone helps with their health, I might help with their building physics. Or I might ride my bike and you can call me a cyclist. So.

 

Jess Kismet (55:50.531)

Yeah.

 

Yeah.

 

Alex Slater (56:00.236)

That's really cool. love, I love being that they have a bit of mystery. I think mystery is a really, really cool thing because ultimately mystery comes out as a person's life story and it's carrying that life story through. That is what I'm doing authentically and how people connect to that is their perception of my story.

 

Jess Kismet (56:04.439)

Mm-hmm.

 

Jess Kismet (56:17.273)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

 

Jess Kismet (56:22.543)

Mm-hmm.

 

Jess Kismet (56:26.383)

There's so much room in your thought process. There's no rigidity about your mind. It's a very structured mind. It's a very analytical mind, but it's just so open.

 

Alex Slater (56:31.724)

There's no rigidity

 

Alex Slater (56:40.908)

something cut out.

 

Jess Kismet (56:44.717)

That's cool. are you there? I've lost you for a second.

 

Jess Kismet (56:52.194)

Hang on here for a sec, it'll come back.

 

Alex Slater (56:57.56)

think something's cut out. This is a recording. It's fun.

 

Jess Kismet (57:01.329)

You

 

Alex Slater (57:03.884)

Guys in the blooper.

 

Alex Slater (57:18.776)

Yeah, I think it's a blooper. Cool. hang on.

 

Jess Kismet (58:50.886)

I'm back. Can you hear me? Hello? All right, good. Got you. Stupid internet. Just my modem literally just reset itself for no apparent reason. Yeah. Now it should have actually, the recording on Riverside is actually pretty good. There would have been a cut out there, but it still would have kept recording some of that. So we can probably just go on to the next question and I'll be able to chop and change and that'll be fine.

 

Alex Slater (58:55.0)

There you are. Hello.

 

That's cool. You can have it as a blooper. Put it on a blooper.

 

Alex Slater (59:16.738)

Yeah, yeah, but I said that this probably a blooper so you can put that at the end.

 

Jess Kismet (59:20.008)

All right. Okay, so we've got our last couple of questions here. If you weren't doing this building science, building physics, architect, art, gray matter in the gray area jig, what path do think you might have followed instead?

 

Alex Slater (59:43.436)

I'm actually following that path now in a way. I'm working with a few people on holistic healing and kinesiology.

 

Jess Kismet (59:53.224)

wow. Yeah. So cool.

 

Alex Slater (59:54.882)

which is really cool. Yeah. So that's a really cool path. So there's more on that space a bit later. Yeah. So that's, and I find that it's really, the passion there is that I understand that people need to know.

 

Jess Kismet (01:00:02.288)

Alright, watch this space.

 

Alex Slater (01:00:15.49)

what they need in their life before they start designing the house.

 

Alex Slater (01:00:23.822)

because the house is the biggest asset or the biggest expense they'll make. So it's about refining what they need in the home before it's actually designed.

 

Jess Kismet (01:00:32.978)

So what exactly is kinesiology?

 

Alex Slater (01:00:37.314)

Kinesiology works with meridians and whole body systems to look at healing from a alternative perspective. But really, the really exciting one is I'm working with Paul, he's helping me a lot with a shamanistic approach to healing or holistic healing, which is actually connecting with people.

 

Jess Kismet (01:00:48.36)

Mm-hmm.

 

Jess Kismet (01:01:02.066)

Okay.

 

Alex Slater (01:01:07.894)

and understanding where their authenticity is and bringing that out in them.

 

Jess Kismet (01:01:12.978)

So you're looking to heal the human, the person and then give them...

 

Alex Slater (01:01:18.68)

heal the human and heal the home.

 

Jess Kismet (01:01:19.112)

Give them, this is too beautiful for words, give them a home that is entirely aligned with their value system in a way that they didn't even know they needed. my God.

 

Alex Slater (01:01:32.29)

and their authenticity.

 

Jess Kismet (01:01:40.872)

Well, I am very excited and looking forward to hearing more about that.

 

That is very cool.

 

Alex Slater (01:01:49.518)

Yeah, yeah. So yeah, a couple of schools I'm working with at the moment, which is teaching me heaps.

 

Jess Kismet (01:01:58.984)

Cool. And how do we, how do we keep track of you, Alex? How do we like, how do we keep track of all of your ventures and your, your work, your study, your, how do we keep track? Where do we find you? Give you a call?

 

Alex Slater (01:01:59.03)

And yeah, more info on that soon.

 

Alex Slater (01:02:16.701)

Oh, yeah, the call's good. I've got my number on the website actually, so that's not a bad idea.

 

Jess Kismet (01:02:21.352)

Because you don't tend to post much on social media or anything like that. Or do you have a newsletter or? Yeah. Yeah, yes. All right, well, maybe I'll get you back on in a few months time and we can see where you're at.

 

Alex Slater (01:02:27.758)

They're all intentional but the work just keeps coming so I find I just got to do it.

 

Alex Slater (01:02:42.126)

Cool, really cool chat. Yeah, yeah, yeah, really cool chat.

 

Jess Kismet (01:02:42.856)

in a year's time or something and, you know, just see where you're going with it. Cause this is very interesting. It's very interesting conversation. all right, Alex, final question. ask everybody, what is the one thing you would like the listener to know out of everything that you've learned in your career and life to date?

 

Alex Slater (01:03:06.285)

connect with people.

 

Jess Kismet (01:03:09.65)

That doesn't surprise me from our conversation.

 

Alex Slater (01:03:12.398)

and understand their value system and know where to bring it in terms of energies, energy ratings or energy work. And that is always going to help them progress because they're coming from a language that they understand.

 

Jess Kismet (01:03:22.92)

Mm-hmm.

 

Jess Kismet (01:03:30.288)

Mm-hmm. Perfect. Thank you so much, Alex. This has been a truly heartwarming conversation. Thank you so much for your time. I really hope that everyone out there enjoyed this as much as I did because I got a lot out of it.

 

Alex Slater (01:03:35.064)

Cool.

 

Thanks, Jess.

 

Alex Slater (01:03:44.994)

Thanks, Jess. Chat soon. Bye.

 

Jess Kismet (01:03:46.096)

Alright, bye Alex.