Selling a Brand

Zahra  

All right so welcome to today's episode, I am so excited to talk to you and introduce to our members and our listeners, Chelsea Cohen. This is someone who I've known for a couple years, actually, first, personally, before I knew professionally, I have a lot of respect for what she does, and what she's been able to build over the past few years and I really do. The reason I brought you on Chelsea is I really want to show people the progression because I think you have a very unique path to how you build out your brand and it was done in kind of the Wild West, right, as we talk about Amazon and that kind of thing. So I'm excited to see how you made sense of it, and how you were able to be successful at it. So I'm thrilled that you're here, I'm thrilled that our listeners, you know, get to talk to you about how you built that. 

Chelsea  

Awesome yeah, I'm really happy to be here and this isn't a topic that I get to talk about often but it's something that I definitely have some opinions on and I'm excited to talk about it like this, this topic. 

Zahra  

Awesome so for those of you who don't know, Chelsea, let me just give you a little bit of background. So Chelsea Cohen is an Amazon inventory management expert, and she's the co founder and CEO of SoStocked, this is an Amazon inventory management software. Chelsea is also an Amazon seller, a speaker and a consultant, her regular clients include seven and eight figure sellers so this is a big deal. She's got some big clients under her belt. She's been featured on AMPM podcasts, seven figure seller summit, seller events, and the Prosper show and amazing summit stages, among others. So for those of us who are not familiar with Amazon, Amazon, you know, software yeah, tell us about SoStocked. And what is so cool about your software, I heard you give a talk, we were both speaking, I think to a mastermind group and you were going through how the software works and it just kind of blew my mind. Like, if you had a wish list as an Amazon seller, what you would need help with, it really does encompass a lot. 

Chelsea  

Awesome, yeah, you know, I've been selling on Amazon since 2014 and in 2018, looking at how much money I was making versus how much I was keeping, and there was quite a disparity. So I wanted to figure out what it was inventory was the obvious first choice of what I needed to fix in my business stocking out that year, I'd stock out for a month, and then I stocked out again for another week. And, you know, just making some bad decisions and not really paying much attention so I looked for different software's, and there was a lot that was missing. So what we did was to build SoStocked to add certain things, you know, you've got past data that comes in from Amazon, and most software would, take that path data and saying, Hey, based on this past data, this is what you need to order, but completely left out your marketing plans. So that was the you know, the biggest piece, there are a couple of other things that I could get into the weeds on but don't really want to necessarily go down that path. The biggest that was the biggest thing is is not being able to add your marketing plans to your inventory plan, and not understanding the numbers that were behind the suggestion. So that was those were big problems for Amazon sellers and those were some of the biggest problems that we solved, were being able to create forecasts, you know, in a very customized way. And then you know what you're supposed to order so you can place those orders with your suppliers and then you can track everything, all of your orders, and all of your inventory levels can be tracked within the same software.

Zahra  

That's so cool. It's so funny that you said that because for us, we have a software that we use as well and that it's always out of necessity, right. So for us it was like marketing is always a hodgepodge, you've got one software that you're using for email, one software that you're using for text and DMs, another software that you're using to do campaigns, another one for social media posts and then like where does it all come together? How do you manage brand reputation? How do you get through to your reviews? How do you pull all this together and so have it like saying, Okay, this is madness, we just got to make it like, you know, we just have to have a software that pulls it together. And so it's funny that it's a very similar story to what we did and so I think that's interesting that as an Amazon seller, you know, you you didn't just like this sucks, you actually went out made the solution. I think that's that's really cool. 

Chelsea  

Yeah, and it's funny because, you know, talking about just pulling everything together. We actually I don't know if we're gonna get into this later, but we sold our company and we joined up with I still run SoStocked, but we joined up with a company called Carbon6, because they did see that need you have, you know, 11 different software that you're using for different aspects of your business. So they're working on acquiring all of the best pieces, you know, all of us tools, and then getting to the point that they're going to be putting them all together so that they work as one, basically one ecosystem, because that's a huge need, and I think most industries is that you have all the software and who is actually pulling the software together to make it all talk together.

Zahra  

Yeah, that's a huge one, you know, you see it very often. There's so many software's out there and yet, right nothing's complete solutions that, you know, pretty amazing. So there's so many things I want to talk to you about, and I want our audience to hear it. So I'm just gonna dive right in to my very first question. So, you know, you take into the process, you're an Amazon seller, you're looking at your option, they're all pretty crappy. So now you've made your own that, you know, solves the problem. So then, what was it like, bringing that to market because that's a whole different, you know, some people would say, you've got this, you know, marketing experience, but it's very different selling an item on Amazon and selling a B2B, or you're selling a software to Amazon seller wo what was that like, and walk us through that?

Chelsea  

Sure, so I did previously have some relationships within the space. I've been in the space for four years, and had done some speaking on another topic on for Amazon, which was copywriting for Amazon listing. So I did have a little bit, but you know, kind of went underground for about two years building this software. And what we basically did is reached out to the community and said, Hey, we're building this tool and it was really just connecting with people, we're building this tool, you'd let me know, if you're interested, what we want to do is have you be involved in the process. Imagine if you've got access to Click funnels, and we named a couple of other major Amazon tools at the beginning, for $37 a month. So we never did a free trial until October of last year, $37 a month, you lock in your pricing, that's your pricing for life, and you get to help tell us what you want the software to do and that was the beginning. 

That was the original pitch, and there are more 25 people that signed up, then we kind of closed the doors and said, Okay, these 25 people are going to tell us, you know, basically poke holes in the software. And then we have about I think we have about five or six people left from that, who are still paying the $37 a month, you know, four years or three years later but that was the beginning of the journey. It was we had this point where someone said, Hey, I like what you're trying to do but I'm still I want to go back to my spreadsheets, because spreadsheets was the thing that everyone they tried everything, everything stuffed, they went back to spreadsheets. So that was a problem I was, you know, well, it's, it's a real issue. When you have spreadsheets being better than the software, what is going on, send me your spreadsheet. And so we would we worked with a couple of different people who sent us their spreadsheet, what works, what doesn't? What do you hate? What do you love? What do you want this thing to do? ripped out the entire forecasting algorithm built it back from scratch, and then word of mouth has started picking up and so that was the start of it. 

But you know, I'm 2020 help because everyone started freaking out about inventory but the process then was to reach out and and make connections and kind of leapfrog those connections. Because when you have a space that's very interconnected, relationships are is everything so that was the first thing is identifying. Who do we need to talk to who who can we we did the tactic was borrowing audiences? Who can we go and borrow these audiences and create very topical, attention grabbing titles for our podcasts, sell those to the podcasts, the podcasters, because they know they can sell those titles to their audience. And so the first thing that in terms of branding is, if you're going to be working with influencers and podcasters, if you're going in that direction, get really good at creating a title, you know, and say, Okay, I'm really great at this topic. What is the title that's going to make their audience want to tune in and so that's kind of the first approach was how can we get in front of other people's audiences in a way that's very, very enticing.

Zahra  

Yeah I love that you brought that up because we see a lot especially when, you know, no matter what your product is your service you know, whatever that looks like. So often when we work with small businesses, their initial and their initial, and they're only to market, a campaign idea is to go straight to B to C. And what they don't realize is that that's a very expensive endeavor, it takes a long time to refine the massive amounts of data that you're gonna get. And at that point in time, you're still testing out your ideal customer avatars and your ideal segments, right? You're not really you think you know, who's going to be the best kind of fit, you know, demographically, and geographically, but you're not really sure and so it's so critical. And we, you know, we followed a very similar path where at the beginning, we would grab speaking engagements, we would make connections within the community, we would speak to different levels of entrepreneurial chips from startups to scale up to and see where our sweet spot was and test on different topics and free content. And the free content that we were giving and speaking engagements then became our webinar content, right. And so like, you find which ones resonate, which ones get conversions, which ones gets you, you know, one on one consultations and bookings and then you kind of use that, and double down on what works. 

But, you know, even so far as, you know, whether it's a service or a product, it's easier to talk to the people who already have built that connection. They know because they know their audience, so well, they know what they need, they know what language they speak. And so if you can now build that connection with them, and then borrow their audience. It's not just like leads that you're borrowing it's information, it's years of experience, that you're that you're, you know, kind of tapping into. I love I love that you did that. But I want to take it back a little bit, because you had mentioned that you were in the space already, as a copywriter. So as you're developing out your brand, and you have an established brand as a reputable copywriter for Amazon listings, then how do you now say, I'm also a software developer or I'm also a software like, how, what did that look like for you?

Chelsea  

Yeah, I mean, like I said, it kind of stepped back a little bit, I was still talking about copywriting people still trusted me. And they have this level of trust and they, so I had, I had this kind of circuit of, okay, this is a person who is smart, who thinks intelligently, and then started speaking to our pain points. So it was, you know, while I was part of what I was funding, the software was, you know, the money that I was making in my agency so I had to kind of keep that going. But in there was that run on word of mouth, that was something that came kind of, by accident, and, but it was really, I had to start stop talking about that stuff. I had to stop putting myself out in that way and really start talking more about inventory and educating. And it became it, you have to have an approach, like you have to have something different instead of just talking about, hey, you know what everyone else is talking about. What is it about inventory that we can, that we can connect to what Amazon sellers are already talking about, because I could talk about inventory till the cows come home, but nobody cares, at least at the beginning of 2020.  Nobody really cared so I had to find something that kind of, they knew they knew that was a problem and a pain point but everyone talks has been talking for the last 10 years about marketing. 

No one has been talking about inventory. No one's been talking about cash flow, the only thing they've been talking about in terms of cash flows, you've got the fintech companies coming out, and they have the sellers confusing funding for cash flow and it definitely is not that. So there are these two other portions of any physical products business that haven't been addressed. So of course, you want to enter the conversation where they're at and I developed something called, because they're always talking about marketing, inventory minded marketing. So how can I tie inventory and marketing together and help them to see that this is actually hurting their marketing, and this is hurting their bottom line, and this is hurting their revenue and hurting their sales sales and so we talked about that. That was kind of the ideal approach is what is everybody talking about, what are they interested in and how can we get them to see that this is a part of that conversation?

Zahra  

I think that's so clever, you know, and that really pools that that copywriting expertise that you have to adjust the messaging and it's so funny, I'm like, laughing as you say this, because we had a very similar experience. So you know, starting out, you know, in San Antonio, when we did, you know, at that point, nobody was talking about branding and if they were they were talking about or speaking about it in terms of a logo. There were some on them, it wasn't the brand experience, it wasn't building out, you know, customer journeys and we even heard of that it was just a different space, right? It was. when we first started, we were talking all the time about, you know, we started off with branding, branding, branding. And everybody was a little disappointed that he kind of see, because you weren't going such a deep dive into the visual, you know, like how to draw your logo, it was more about brand strategy, and creating frameworks and things like that. And it was, because we weren't meeting them where they were, and we weren't speaking their language. 

And so, and so, you know, we had to adjust that to marketing and that's exactly what we did. And so it became this, you know, 90% of the clients that we get come to us, because they think they have a marketing problem, the marketing is the symptom, the disease is the brand, that's what really needs to be addressed. So it was like, we can help you with your marketing problem, like how to improve your marketing and the way we do that is by, you know, fixing the brand, right? But it was very much a similar, you know, it's funny, as you're saying that I had to laugh, because everybody is so hyper focused on that marketing. And that's the language that they speak because at that point in that level, you know, they're looking at sales and marketing, they're looking at rent and payroll for next month, they're not looking big picture and so how do you then go and meet them where they are?  That's so interesting the very similar story. 

So now, the other question that I have for you, as far as since you and I want to talk, I want to go into what it was like, what was that experience like with carbon six, because one of the things that is it's very powerful about what you did is you didn't sell a product, you sold a brand, and the difference and valuation that that brings, right, so they didn't just grab your super cool software, and then white label it under themselves, they kept the brand so they bought the brand and what that does to the value. And for you as an exit strategy and a legacy strategy, there's, there was that investment that you put into the brand early on that paid dividends at the end, because people are willing to pay more for a brand than they are just a product, right? Just the software and you know, they can get that done out, outsourcers favor that either, but what what they really bought was a brand that you had built over time. And so talk to me about that and, you know, what you focus on in the early days brand wise, that serve as an investment so that you could then have the option to make your cell that much more appealing because of what you built.

Chelsea  

Yeah, I mean, in the early days, it definitely was a conscious decision when we built the software, we realized that, you know, we were starting a conversation that people weren't having and the goal was to really, to build an educate, to educate, to train. S, over time, I've developed several different strategies, inventory minded marketing is the biggest one of those, and that has evolved over time. First, it was, you guys need to give your marketing plan to your inventory team, you guys are not talking and it was, you know, blaming the marketing team for, you know, not giving their plan. And so that was the first you know, get get that communication over there so they can put it into their plans. And then it became take your inventory, data inventory needs to create this data, these reports and give it to your marketing team so your marketing team can implement that into their marketing plan. It's kind of this full circle so these are the concepts thatpeople have just been okay, figure out how much inventory I need an order the inventory, they haven't had strategies. 

So that was the first step was, we've got people who don't know anything about strategies or techniques for inventory, they know I need to place an order. They have some ideas of how to order things, but they don't have systems in place so we need to teach them how to have systems in place. And putting those things together and going out and speaking to those things. It makes a lot of sense to people, they have these aha moments and and I was able to tie myself to that and then tie our brand to that. We've got these plans and you can implement them more quickly through our tool so those two things went hand in hand. It was not just we have a tool it was we have a tool and here are the techniques that you really need to be implementing whether you use our tool or not. These are the strategies that will help you to stay In stock, and also help you to avoid overstocking excess inventory is costing you money, you're looking at trying to put to make more money and save more money. 

And it's not just about I stocked out and I couldn't make sales, it's about every month, you're being charged storage fees on this inventory. And every month, you've got money tied up, that could be invested in another product so getting people to see the big picture, doing that education and going out and just continually pushing that same message. And it was always myself, every blog post we put out was a blog post by me, every email that goes out is an email from Chelsea. We didn't do this kind of stock, you know, it was SoStocked is me, I am I am the leading force within SoStocked. We're not confusing it with other people we're not bringing in we talked about that, should I bring in the customer service person who is doing all of these onboarding calls with every single customer? Should these other people within our company have a voice and we decided that's going to confuse things. So we need to really just focus on making me an integral part of the brand and giving value.

Zahra  

Yeah, I think there's two things that you said there that I just like want to touch back upon, in case anybody may have missed it, because it's so hugely important. One is, you know, that's the thing with software and apps, right, they're very difficult to distinguish from one another. Because, you know, we all know from neuro economics, you know, the the root and the technical features that are different happen, those differentiations happen a lot in the neocortex. And so like, how do you build that trust, that desire and that recognition before that stage, and so that's why you see millions of apps that never get seen, and it's just, you know or software that just doesn't have that sticky factor in there. And so I think it was really intelligent what you did, and said, what, it's not just another ambiguous, you know, logo and favicon and like, generic software that there's no people behind. And so because I think what people needed was, they don't just need the software, they need to know how to use a software, because I think what you know, when you were speaking about earlier, meeting people where they are, it wasn't that people knew how to do these things. They just didn't have the software to support it, they also didn't know how to do these things, and they knew they needed to be, and they knew they needed to know how to do those things. And so establishing you as a subject matter expert, what is it that Ray Edwards always says, you know, the greater the more precisely, you can explain someone's pain point, the more trust they have that you have the ability to solve it.

Chelsea  

Yeah, yeah,  and that's huge, that's been a big piece for us is sharing our story. We are sellers and it was funny, because now with Carbon6, I have one of one of the spokespeople for Carbon6 Clayton, he went to an event and he was speaking at an event. And a friend of mine, who was watching him speak on about, SoStocked, he had brought the microphone down to have someone to read, pick up someone's comment. And my friend took a quick clip, and it was basically, well, that's because she's a seller, and she knows exactly what sellers need and so that's something that I've always tried to convey. But to have someone halfway across the country, saying it into a microphone in front of a group of people was was odd, like, I know that I have done my job because my biggest goal was to help people to understand that this is a problem that I have had. This is something I think about all the time and this is something that I am very passionate about wanting to help other people to improve their businesses because I know people who have failed at Amazon businesses. 

And it's because a lot of it's because they don't understand this side of the business, they don't understand how to stay in stock, they don't understand their their number, their profit, their cash flow, which is the next space that we will be moving into is my goal was always to help people to keep more of their money, because it was frustrating to see people fail because they just they didn't have that other side of the business. So that that's a big that's a big goal of mine is how can we show genuinely that that's, you know, how can you show your passion that you're not here for you know, just the monthly subscription fees? It's some I mean because we spent four years not taking a paycheck, you know, it was something that we're building because it's something we truly believed in. So if you can convey that to to your audience, then you have that trust, like, yeah, that is the trust is is showing genuinely what you're here for. 

Zahra  

Yeah, I think that really what I think what you what you did with that like becoming that subject matter expert number one, you took a completely different approach to the brand being an you know of your product than every other software out there, which instantly makes you remarkable, right? That's just something you talk about, it's something you comments about, like, wow, it instantly makes it more sticky, right, because I see icon icon icon, oh face, right, something that you think about. And then also that you have that experience and that expertise, and you're giving them the tools that they need to be able to make the software work for them. So it's not just the product, it's the support, it's the expertise, it's the Hey, we don't just, here's the software, go figure it out, you know, you and you get that vibe about you, as you're giving these talks as you're speaking it, you can really tell that you've got somebody there that's going to collaborate with you, and help you think through problems. 

And, you know, and find solutions in whatever way that is and I think that's so critical, and a really unique approach that people take to software, we see it in like online courses, you know, having that personal brand. And being the subject matter expert, we see it in industries like mine all the time where you know, you've got this, you know, great creative director, or you know, a strategist or somebody, but we don't really see it in software. And so I think that was really, you know, expertly done, you know, to kind of take an approach to send in other industries and bring that into your home. And then the other thing that you said, that I really wanted to, to really, really look at is, you mentioned the level of consistency. And I think, you know, we talk about all the time, you can't, if you're a launching brand, don't launch with all 30 of your items, launch with a signature item, get some traction there, get some recognizability there, you know, have a consistent brand, don't use all your brand colors in different, you've got to create that recognition, and we recognize patterns and so we recognize things that are same disease. 

And so if you've got a bunch of different people starting off, or a bunch of different products starting off, or a bunch of different versions of your logo, you know, Google can do what they do, because they've been at it for so long, that, you know, it's this ubiquitous, you know, visual, we don't even need to be able to read the Google we know what it is. But that's how you start righ and so toxic can you talk a little bit more about that, and, you know, at some point in every brand journey, and as you know, brands develop, there is more room, you go from being the solopreneur this, you know, individual to an ethos of the brand. And but for you and your tactic, how did you start to evolve that, because now as you're moving into this new phase, there's gonna be this new evolution. So tell me about what that's been like and then how you see that projected into the future?

Chelsea  

Sure, I mean, in terms of consistency, and and, you know, repeating the same thing over and over, and sometimes I feel, Oh, I've talked about this before, you know, I feel like, oh, do I need to make different slides or whatever it is, am I doing the same thing over and over again, everyone's heard this, I've been talking about this for two years, or whatever, that thing that happens in my head. And then I realized, there are so many people, there's such a broad number of sellers that I need to reach they haven't heard this. This is new, even though I've been talking about for two years, this is new for many, many people so that was something that I had to realize, and you know that we needed to do this one thing really well before we can move on into doing other things really well but they need to be part of the same story. You know, you think of Coca Cola, they have, you know, one product, and then they came out with diet and so they have basically two products. They've tried to do other things, and that hasn't really worked out for them. 

But it's okay to be known for something and in our space, there are so many, we refer to them as gurus, there's so many gurus, they're not very many experts. And that's been something that we have wanted to shift and that's a conversation that we actually have and carbon six is we don't like the guru thing we don't like. I don't like being known for everything. And that was why I said, you know, I've got this copywriting thing and I've got this inventory thing, I'm not going to tell you that I know what to do with your PPC that's not my strong suit. You know, there are certain things that I'm not interested in I'm not passionate about so I'm not going to tell you that I know how to do everything and so there's strength and being able to focus on this one thing, and because everyone's gonna have a different opinion of who you should trust for, you know, Amazon, build your Amazon business, there's so many different people. There's one person for inventory and I met, you know, there's people for some people for logistics and that type of thing but there is no other software for Amazon inventory management, where you can name the spokesperson, there isn't one. 

So that became really important is focusing on I am the inventory person, that is my focus, that's my message because people will remember that if you want to do this, if you want to learn about inventory, you're gonna go to Chelsea people are going to refer to me. So that's kind of the start of what we needed to do was, was when you think of this thing, you think of me and we have amazing word of mouth. And part of it is because we've been open and we people have direct me, and they'll come up to me in events. And, you know, they'll message me on Facebook and we're very, very open and involved in the community. But that's been kind of our goal is, let's be the inventory people, and nothing else and so I'm for the inventory people. And as we start getting into profit and cash flow, and that side of things, I've actually started talking about profit, but I'm talking about it from the standpoint of inventory, how do you improve profit and cash flow and that side of your business with inventory? 

So that's been what I've been talking about, we're going to it bridges that gap, how do you bridge that gap between, you can't just say, Okay, I'm profit, you know,  I'm an inventory person, and then all of a sudden, you say, now I'm a profit person. And if you have nothing to bridge that gap, it kind of becomes very abrupt for people and I didn't want to have this kind of shifting conversation, I wanted to create this journey of okay, this is just like we said, marketing. And this is how inventory connects to marketing, we have inventory, and this is how it connects to profit, and cash flow. So that when we start having when we start bringing out our cash flow, and our profit tools that we are currently in the development stage on, it makes sense. And people understand how it's just an extension of the same conversation, which to me has always been and what why I started, keep more of the money you make and that's that the true line.

Zahra  

We talked about that a lot in Randy is what is your point of where's your line of continuity. So, you know, there's this old school idea of brand where everything's just robotic, and, you know, rigid, and then there's the opposite extreme, where people try and get too creative. We've got these DIY errs out there who are just running amok, but it's, you know, I guess you can kind of liken it to, you know, the 80s matchy matchy to like now where nothing looks like it goes together as a style. But where's that middle point where it's like, it doesn't necessarily match, but it definitely goes, right and I think that, we you know, we built these frameworks, that's what we built them on. So we look at content and things like tha that's a really big piece of it and I think that's really interesting. And that you just see how it works in a software device because, you know, we do it. 

We've even done it for us so we talked about, you know, we've been asked to do talks about pricing. And so it's like, well, you know, so how do we then like, well, we're not a business coach, we're not a business development, you know, agency, we're a branding agency. So then just say, like, how do we create value based pricing? How do we use your brand to leverage your profit margin and like create value based pricing instead of generic, you know, challenging pricing? And so like, how do we, you know, so but it's always finding that keeping it true to you, because then it's weird. If you're the branding girl, and then all of a sudden, you're talking about like cogs and like, you know, learn about how to do something else is totally separate. And so I think that as far as like brand consistency is picking those central pillars and from it, finding how topics can relate back to it. Trendy, pivoter is like, Oh, this hashtag so hot right now, I've got to go do a thing about this. That actually can do more harm than good long term when you're building a brand. 

Chelsea  

Yeah and it's funny because there's a lot in our space. There's a lot of cross promotion, you know, will you promo my thing we send out here's our six part email sequence and you know, will you send it out and I have always pushed back I say, you know, if we're not involved Oh, we aren't going to promote it. So find a way to get us involved, and we'll promote it and even if it's talking about, you know marketing, I can tie that to inventory. But I can betray my audience by just pushing out some random emails whenever I never used people swipe copy, because I have to be speaking to my audience and different people styles, I just, I feel like it's a betrayal of the relationship that that we've built, that I'm just not willing to, you know, cross that line, you have to be careful about that. When you look at how am I going to, if I'm going to collaborate with someone, maybe you're doing an influencer thing or whatever, if you're doing some sort of a swap consider that you know, that short term value of Oh, yeah, you we're gonna give you our email list, for example, you know, and those are things that we've we've had, we're gonna give you our email list. If you promote our thing, let's say, you know, I'll promote on social media, I'll share somebody's post, we'll mention it as a PS, whatever, maybe, but that 5000 user email list or whatever it is, first of all, they didn't opt into my list. So I have to then market that to them separately and then the other and then the other aspect is, is it worth burning all the people who already are trusting me to open up an unknown, you can ruin your brand immediately, you know, you can ruin those relationships with a couple of emails that are misplaced, you know?

Zahra  

Yeah, so talk about that so, our CMO does a lot of work with affiliate partnerships, collaborations, building out those contracts and negotiating those things. But talk to us about how you navigate that, because, you know, as you said, in the beginning, a lot of how you got started in the business was leveraging, you know, other audiences, building those partnerships and those collaborations. So how, how did you go about doing that, what was your approach to doing it in a way that was still in integrity, with yourself and with your brand impact while you know, these, you're building out these other collaborations?

Chelsea  

Right what you know, for us, it's, it's a matter of how do we fit this within the framework that we that we work in, and being able to say, Okay, we've got marketing, inventory, mine and marketing, we can tie that to marketing, most people are in the marketing space. There are some people who are in the FinTech space, we can talk about that in terms of funding inventory. So you find those links but the interesting thing about 2020 and 2021 is everyone was looking for answers. And we had those answers, we had answers that a lot of people didn't have so we were able to come into communities, and we were adding a lot of value. And we weren't, we didn't necessarily have to do any sort of a swap because, you know, they were affiliates. They would make money because we served a need, but their bigger need was content, and was help giving answers. They had these communities, Facebook groups, whatnot and people were asking questions about inventory, and they didn't have as many answers if they wanted to, or needed to, and they didn't want to become inventory experts. 

So they would bring us in so some of it was it was really timing and, and swimming in the blue ocean. You know, you say the red ocean is where all the sharks are and all fighting over the same fish. We're in the blue ocean, and it so it became easy to mark it in that way and then creating some partnerships with people who are already who are on currently on the podcast circuit, we created a relationship with  an SOP company called iScala and they do a lot of SOPs for Amazon sellers and we connect it up through LinkedIn. And we started doing podcasts together where he would go on podcast, and then he would ask, Hey, you know, what can I do for you, at the end of a podcast, you know, what kind of guests are you looking for and they would say, and so he would then introduce to me as one of the guests I would do the same for him is it gives value to the podcaster and then it allows you to, to work together and really build a stronger relationship with other people that you feel are going to add value to to the podcast relationships. 

Zahra  

That's really fantastic it's, you know, we call them like adjacent or, you know, industry adjacent relationships. So we've built a lot of strong relationships with, you know, PR firm photographers, media, you know, firms and so that's a great relationship for us because they don't do it, we do and we wouldn't dream of touching what they do. And so it's a nice little marriage there and a good relationship. And it's always nice to be able to talk shop with people who are familiar with your industry and what's going on. So this is more of a fun question than than anything else but tell me, at what moment did you realize you have more than a company, you had a brand, what was that like, what was the thing?

Chelsea  

What moment, that's interesting. I mean, there's a couple of different moments but I think one of the things that does stand out, we did a lot of work with SEO and we really focused on being the inventory management company from from an SEO perspective, there's there's two different things. But obviously, there's there's the side of, you know, myself as a brand and then there's the the company as a brand. We started ranking for we had a very aggressive SEO strategy, and we use our ranking for top keywords, you know, and inventory management course, inventory management. So we started getting on the first page, and then some, you know, in the top slots and in Google, but there was, we have this newsletter it's Amazon Seller news. And it's very much focused on the Amazon seller, ecommerce, the battle between Amazon and Shopify and Walmart, you know, what's happening within the community. What are these policies that Amazon's passing a lot to do with logistics, you know, strikes and ports being closed down and that side of things, and it became very, very popular, because it's, you know, it's done differently than any other space. And when we realized that we were ranking at the top of Google for Amazon Seller news, and sometimes outranking, Amazon themselves, like that became this huge like, okay, we're doing some things right. Like we've actually built a brand, we have captured a, you know, a lot of that Amazon inventory management marketplace in terms of Google, when you look at Google, we're we're in it for a lot of major keywords so that was kind of on the stock side of things. 

On the brand side of things it's hard to say exactly when I realized I think it was the first event that I went to when we'd have people come up and talk to us and no, I'm so glad to meet you. You know, I had, we did an event with our mutual friend, Amy Goodman, this is not like, I think Prosper 2020, was it 2021 or 2020? I can't remember, I think it was March 2021 Prosper, just having people come up to us being able to get this is a funny one being able to get into all the parties like that. Because it's not because you know, you want to go to the parties necessarily but that's where you meet all the people. And that was our big strategy with how do we meet people, how do we add value to people's audiences, and borrow that trust. So the fact that I was able to work my way into being invited to pretty much every party that I wanted to go to, and it was like five different parties, it was just, ya know, it's crazy when you get over there, that showed me that I had, you know, made it because I had enough relationships with enough people at the at the parties to get get my invitation or get my foot in the door so that was, I think that was a moment.

Zahra  

I think we all kind of have, I remember texting my executive assistant, when we first started, we had like our dream, you know, everybody's got their dream. It's like, I want to be in a room with these people, there were texting the, you know, a couple years later, like, Oh, my God, guess who's sitting to my right and my left here, like it was just one of those moments or like bad, just a couple years ago, they're on your wish list. And now, and so I want to kind of go back, you know, really quickly and just kind of revisit, so what was that like for you selling your brand and what did that negotiation look like? And how did you know how to negotiate for like, Hey, you're not just buying any software? You know, this is a real brand. What was that process like for you and how did you know that carbon six was going to be a great fit for you because it's always kind of the fear, right? Like, you make this baby and then you want to make sure that that who they marry or who they where they go off into the world is somewhere that is going to take care of them and you know be what you think it's going a beat so what was that like?

Chelsea  

Yeah, that was actually an interesting experience, because we were looking at fundraising and that's what we're in the process of doing. That was a moment, we went to this community event called the Billion Dollar Seller Summit. It's probably the most expensive Amazon event that exists the most exclusive the best speakers, you know, you really have to prove yourself to even get on that stage and so I said, you know, I've had this feeling that I need to be there. So I bought a ticket, I went as an attendee, and from stage, my friend, Tim Jordan,  he wasn't as close of a friend, as you know, he is now but he called me out from stage. You know, I was like, oh, you know, this is, that's cool and that was like a first thing. And then, and then there was a, you know, FinTech company that was speaking the next day and they asked if there's any questions, I always like to give questions, you know, ask questions, because that's an awkward moment. If is there any questions and people don't, you know, so, you know, I would like to know, I was considering funding as I know, you know, I would like to know, and I, so I asked, you know, do you guys fund, what does it look like? Would you guys fund, a SaaS company and Amazon SAS company and before he could answer someone, who is an influencer in the space, said, How much do you need and I was like, and then other people were like, looking around, like, and then I had two different people who were users of SoStocked come up to me afterwards and were like, you know, seriously, if you're going to raise money, reach out to me. So that was, that was a big moment. 

That was when we realized, okay, we can actually ask people for money, they believe in SoStocked and so we were fundraising. And we were doing we had a pitch deck, we were reaching out, we had people who are waiting for, for a contract who are ready to cut us a check and most of them were users, longtime users, or, you know, recent users, we had shown that we had enough trust. And we had, they had seen that progression of we said we were going to do it, we did it, there was this amazing feedback loop where this, I want this, you know, this, this feature, we would work with them, we would launch it, we were for the community so they had a lot of trust in us. And there were a couple of different people out there with three different people who connected us with the CEO of Carbon 6, Justin Cobb and we have a call an initial call, and we weren't looking to sell. So we didn't, we had a lot of leverage, because we had people who were ready to cut us checks and so we had a lot of leverage in that way, because we really didn't want to sell and they wanted, they didn't want so stuck they want so stock and our team and our brand, they wanted all of that. 

And so that was there were a couple of different leverage points and we then you know, we were not leaving, like I have things to do, you know, I have so so we created a structure where we stay stay on, we bring on our team. And they there were a lot of things that we're doing right that they wanted to learn from, as well so we knew that not only were we given the opportunity to create, to bring our team on board, we had certain things I said, you know, I really need this, this and this, we're going to be going into profit, we're going to be going into cash flow. And we need to know that you're not going to stop us from doing that, we need to know that there are specific things that we can do within our roadmap. And so that was the that was the kind of the negotiation was, this is what we need to do and some of it was the money side of things, but a lot of it was how we're going to work together and what we've got planned and that we're going to be able to fulfill that roadmap. 

So that was a big piece of the negotiation but really, it was the people and you know, the first question that I asked was, who are your advisors? That was the most important thing because I wanted to be able to if you can tell me that you're working with X, Y and Z. I know what your plans are, I know what you're thinking and I know that I can if you're actually listening to that those people I can trust that Tim Jordan just announced that he's you know, he's now the Chief Strategy Officer of Carbon 6 he's been friends with Justin and unofficially consulting Justin. So that was one of the things was okay, Tim, Tim knows this guy. I called Tim up. I said, Hey, What do you know about this? What do you know about Carbon 6, and he said, You know, I can't tell you, it's the right thing for you to do. But they have done everything that they've said that they were going to do and faster than I even imagined they could do it. 

So that was like a first, okay, this is interesting and then I started seeing that happening, you know, turning around and in saying, we've really need help with devs devs is a big problem. And then he turned in Justin turns, and he says, we need to hire 50 devs within the next, you know, six months and then when I came into Carbon 6, they were interviewing 20, they were looking at 20 devs a week and hiring, they have to hire like two a week over like, a period of a month or two. So really seeing that they were doing what they were saying they were doing, built a really great relationship with Justin and since I've come in, there hasn't been a thing that they've said no to. For me, personally, I've been, you know, here's my ideas of what I want to do and they're like, Okay, cool, go with it, you know, it helps to be a smart, intelligent business person. But that collaboration, I know that if I've got problems, or I've got challenges, or blockers, lower on the organizational board, I can reach out to the executive team and I can get things moving and that's been just, you know, just great. So really, getting to know who you're going to be working with is vitally important.

Zahra  

Yeah, I think that is a really good point to make as far as like, if one were making a pitch for that kind of, you know, selling your brand is that there is kind of, you know, I don't know if he faulted as a CEO, where a lot of times you feel like you're doing so much of the heavy lifting, as far as like tearing down obstacles. And really, your brain is wired, for strategic and creative thinking, like, you know, what needs to get done, then you get hung up on all the roadblocks and the things you don't know about at a higher level, like, you know, something like funding, like massive funding, or, you know, we're, you know, for us, we're launching a new division. And so it's about the scaling of it all and like, yeah, you know, what's the healthy cash flow and what do we, you know, at what point, you know, does our team need to grow so that we can keep up with demand and not overstep, and like, here's the like, conceptually, we know exactly what the department needs to look like, what the division should be, you know, the KPIs, you've got all that down, but then like, those bigger things, and so having a partner who's got that experience, and has got the muscle financially and body wise, right, to help lift off some of those barriers so that you can just be, you know, things that used to take you forever to get done, because you're piecing it together yourself now. It's just moving quickly that's awesome.

Chelsea  

Yeah,  and the team that they've put together, I mean, they've got they pulled in so many different people from the Amazon space. You know, when they, some of my best friends were selling their businesses, you know, Mike Cigare, and ManageMyStats just sold with Philip Jepsen, and I were in the first mastermind I was ever in was felt Jetsens, and he just sold his company departments and they're bringing, they're bringing people in, they're not just buying the businesses, they're bringing the community into carbon thick, so that was a big piece. And then on the other side, they've got these executives, some of them have, you know, been been part of selling, you know, growing and selling unicorn companies like these just massive growth companies. So one of the things the CEO said to me recently was, the people that got you from a million new people that get you from a million to 3 million are not going to be the people that get you from three to 100 million and that has been kind of a shift for us as we got to a certain point. And that was the point that we could get to with our current team. So we've got this kind of shifting and restructuring of what does it look like to get SoStocked to that next level? How do we, you know, 5x 10x, within the next couple of years, what does that look like we know, we know what we need to do in terms of building we know the tools and the roadmap, we know that side of things and it's very, very clear. But we've got this sticking point within our organization and now we've got people who are getting in there and they know how to fix it because we didn't know how to fix that specific major blocker and now we've got the team who were confident now that that can that can change. So that's the thing I think, when a person is thinking of selling is you have to have the right team that has a different skill set than you but at the same time, realize when you're stuck at a certain level. It's because you maybe don't have the team in place that can get you to that next level.

Zahra  

I think it's so important to look at that also from the perspective of brand experience, right? So like, doing these things with integrity, you know, insofar as, like, when you take on these big projects, when you make these big moves, how do I do it, and maintain the brand standard, you know, that was a big one for us is, you know, for years, we've been talking about marketing division, and, you know, what does that look like, and just the software, like I said, the software that was out there, like, you know, we can't really deliver that experience or hodgepodge a bunch of different things together. And we're kind of mandating all these different tools and resources, it just, it either becomes cost prohibitive, to execute it in a way that our clients have been accustomed to getting their brand, you know, items, or, we're going to have to lower the bar, and that now compromises you know, our brand. And so, you know, those are the sticking points that you need to kind of work through and so sometimes that means, you know, getting funding, sometimes that means, you know, going in, and, you know, having another brand come in, and, you know, working with them. 

So I think that's really probably speaks a lot to why carbon six pinpointed you guys, is that you do think about things in those ways like, you know, some, sometimes we're so, you know, we always say in business, like speed is everything, like, just go just, you know, but doing that, and still maintaining your your checks and balances. And still, you know, considering your end users still making sure that those experience, you know, for the different software and features and things that you have, are at a level that your customers have been able, like come to expect. And I think that like when you were talking about it, just as you were describing how you understood carbon six to be or who you, you know, understood them to be it sounded very similar to what you were talking about yourself and your brand. So it was almost an alignment of the brands, you know, obviously, persona factors will differ but the core values were there, right? The community building, the the accountable, the collaboration, like that was all very tightly woven, I think they were they were very similar and so it makes sense. 

Chelsea  

Yeah, yeah, exactly and that was, you know, they answered, they had the right answers for who are your advisors, and we talked to other, you know, software aggregators, and they did not have the right answers to that. So, you know, it's Yeah, making sure that you've got that connection with whoever you're working with and we, yeah, that was part of part of it, you know, we need to be able to continue to control our brand, we understand our customers, we understand what they want, we understand what they expect, and we need to, we need to hold that that line, and you know, you're you want us to do this email, we're not going to do that, you know, or we're going to do that email, and we're going to tweak it. And they, we have a good relationship with the marketing team and they're just like, cool, like, we don't worry about you, you know, you guys go, how can we work together? What can we do to help you, but there is that understanding of, you've built a brand that trusts you and so, you know, now carbon six is building a brand and in you know, we can help them to leverage our audience and borrow that trust in the same way. 

So it's interesting to have this whole thing come full circle on, okay, we've borrowed trust from other audiences, and now they're acquiring software and figuring out how do we leverage that, and I think it's the best way for them to leverage it is, again, coming back to being genuine. And I've, you know, I've talked and written about just some of the things that we've talked about, and how the way that they're building things, the way that they have that trust, but you know, they are at the top of, of the, you know, of the organization, they are genuine people and the way that they've brought the community and, and so that's what you share is how can I borrow? You know, how can we show people that that's what carbon six is about because carbon six now is building their own their own brand and their own persona but it's all the same stuff. You know, I think genuine is probably the most, for me, the most important thing about being a brand is to be be honest and be genuine. And to you know, to speak truly about what matters not just to your audience but to you because if you're speaking to what matters to your audience, but it doesn't matter to you it's gonna fall flat and people are gonna gonna feel it.

Zahra  

Yeah, I think you know, we we talk with that brand authenticity, I think it's one of the most, you know, the two things that we do a lot in, you know, as we build brands as one, creating that, those points of integrity, right, so like cleaning, editing, and creating a framework and a system for that, you know, people sometimes lack it's just kind of a bunch of random pieces that are thrown together. And so, but the other part of that is, as word figuring out, what stays and what goes and how we rearrange things, and the syntax of how we do things. It is about authenticity and it's a very collaborative process and people are surprised and how involved they aren't in crafting those brands. And it is very much like, well, we are not marketing focus, like, Yeah, we could build a brand that we know would sell. But if we just build something, and then hand it to you, and it's not true to who you are, you can't wear it, like how are you going to in a PR interview when you're on Good Morning America, when you're doing this or that? How are you going to embody that and how are you going to build a culture around that, if it's not you, if it's something that we thought was cool and trendy, and is so high right now in that industry, but it's not really, you know, that's a marketing that's short term, that's an expense, that's not an investment, you know, trying to build something that's going to grow, and get traction, you know, over the course of time. And so, it's got to resonate with leadership, you know, whatever level that is, for a team, so I think that's, that's really covered. Is there anything else that you want to share with us about, you know, the branding experience, and, you know, maybe some hard won lessons, you know, creating that brand.

Chelsea  

I think that it's important to have consistency, not just in your messaging, but also in your, your medium or I guess you would call it media. We, it took a long time, there are a lot of blog posts that went out, I've, you know, written with the help of, of, you know, I tend to everything that goes out, when we write something, I look at everything. So when, you know, if I have a great writer that helps me with that, but I look at everything and make sure that it's within our voice, and it's saying what it needs to say, but we've, I've written over 60, you know, within those processes, I've written over 60 blog posts, we put over 60, blog posts out and we put every week we we do five bullets of of news, and now we're writing up two to three of those as our own giving our own perspective on on these things. But in the beginning, you're going to feel like it's a waste of time and a lot of people if you look at it, you know, there's an awful lot of fast companies, for example, that actually have a good SEO strategy. That's again, the short term now we've created ourselves as we get a lot of people signing up that found us on Google organic, because we now rank for that. So that's something is, you know, something that feels like short term waste of time can if you have the right strategy can become a long term authority builder and that's what our our blogging strategy has done. 

There was there's a guy who talked to one of the masterminds that I don't remember his name, he did a lot of coaching of athletes and he talked in a mastermind and one of the things that he said that stuck with me is that consistency and persistency is vitally important. We live in an instant gratification world, and we're building half bridges to nowhere and so you imagine yourself on an island and here's social media, and here's influencer marketing, and here's, you know, blogging, and here's all of these various different things new build half a bridge to Twitter, and then you're like, Oh, that's not working or let's try this or let's try that. And so you have all these half bridges that lead you to nowhere and you're falling off the cliff on every single one of them but if you just double down on one thing, and you did it for probably five times as long as you think it's going to take you it's gonna start paying off if you have the right strategy and you're following the right people.

Zahra  

I think it's James Wedmore isn't it.

Chelsea  

Possibly, I don't remember his name but...

Zahra  

I've been in a mastermind he says exactly that his island reference and everything you've got a half bridge and really about, you know, sticking with the consistency of it all. That's but it's so true because so many people you know, their marketing strategy is like, throw spaghetti at the wall and see if it sticks and that seldom works. Yeah, it was James Webmore he does talk about that those have bridges and you seen so often? You know, people will we see it all the time like, you know, I post on social media, I never get any business from it. It's like, but you post once every three weeks on 13 different platforms so like, what if we just did one platform and we just kind of switch that ratio around a little bit to see if we can get some traction. Because if what the consistency also does for you, is it teaches you and I think people forget about that when it comes to, you know, branding is like, if we're talking about the same day, James Wedmore, there's something that I was in his group as well. 

And one of the things that he said that it's kind of like a gut punch is, he talks a lot about is, how do you know, if it's like, if you do something, and you do it correctly, you do it with intention, and you measure it, you have like the tools to measure it, then you're either gonna get the success that you thought you were gonna get, which is like the million dollar ROI from the campaign, or you're gonna get the lesson or the data that you need to get better at it for next time. The only time that that money is a waste is if you're not getting data, usable data back for the money, you know, and so, so often, when we look at marketing campaigns, and like building a brand, there's, I always have, I always use this analogy. It's like running a fifth grade science experiment, with no control. Everything's a variable, and so how do you know what worked, what made had an effect/ What didn't, you know, whenever you're doing these things, you've got to have the ability to run a campaign more than once with, you know, your control set and, and solving for one variable at a time. Otherwise, you just get this hodgepodge and you just all you know that it worked, or didn't work, and you have no idea why or why not right? 

Chelsea  

Yeah, you're testing too many things and you don't know which one Yeah, which one, move that needle and so you can't make actionable choices.

Zahra  

We said that was speaking engagements that was like that was our, our blog, if you will, right. So we wouldn't do them it was like, ah, you know, because at the beginning, you're speaking for free to anybody who will let you and so you're just like trying to get those inroads. And you just like, sometimes the teachers like, Oh, my God, this is ever gonna, you know, pay off because you're not getting the leads that you wanted and it's hard, and you got to battle stage fright, like all the things that you spent hours on your presentation, and all the things and so it was one of those things that you know, for a long time, we were like, was this even working? Should we keep doing it and so we started tracking it and and then also looking for opportunities like, well, you know, we don't actually have a call to action at the end of the speaking gig. So we don't actually follow up with these people. And we don't actually have an offer for them and we don't you know, so like, we're just hoping that they're gonna call us and book an appointment with us. And so how do we start to improve those metrics and how do we work on negotiations? When we go to speak like, do we get access to the list? Do you send something on our behalf? Do you send them to our page like, what are we, you know, what are we doing here?

Chelsea  

You know, how do you increase the value of those of those actions? 

Zahra  

Yeah and but we never would have thought more deeply about it. If we'd have just done a couple of speaking engagements, and we're like that we didn't get any leads, or something else right and that's usually what happens. Well, I am so excited to have spoken to you today so I always like to do the thing at the end if your game is just a rapid fire. Nothing like to brandy and just for for, so are you game will you do it with me? 

Chelsea  

Yeah.

Zahra  

All right so rapid fire person that comes to your mind. Oh, I know one, favorite local Austin music group. 

Chelsea  

Local, that's hard because...

Zahra  

We don't really want people mad but you're from Austim so I asked you about music. 

Chelsea  

I know we don't go to a lot of music things, unfortunately. But I am thinking of on Halloween there's a cover band that's been cover band that we're hoping to go check out possibly.

Zahra  

Oh, that's super cool. What book are you reading right now or the last book you just finished? 

Chelsea  

It's a fiction book actually. It's series, it's called the Unwind series and it's a book called Unholy. And I mean, it's a bit political so it's a grounded fiction, or grounded science fiction book, which I really like grounded science fiction. Because it means it's like grounded in reality this could happen but it's a little bit there's a tweak to what it is, you know, so I've been trying to, I haven't read a lot of fiction books. And so I've been trying to get back there because I am a writer do have that writing foundation, and you know, have been trying to pick up more hobbies.

Zahra  

I love it. Where's your next vacation?

Chelsea  

We're actually going to San Diego to visit my brother. He just opened up a restaurant in La Jolla, San Diego, it's called Mauricie. He's the executive chef and it's an Italian with which is that like seafood inspired Italian, they roll their own pasta. They have whiskey that they've been they had barrel whiskey that they're aging, like all of this stuff that he's, you know, it's like super fancy so we're going down to try his restaurant for the first time.

Zahra  

Fantastic my husband's a chef. 

Chelsea  

Oh, awesome. 

Zahra  

Yeah. All right. Last question. I'm gonna make it a good one, who was your mentor?

Chelsea  

Who was my mentor, I don't know, if I I would say the person that I've learned the most from recently has been my business partner, John I've learned a lot in terms of marketing from him. So I don't know if I have a mentor but I would say yeah, in terms of who I've learned the most from, in recent times has been John is extremely smart with marketing, and a lot of the things at I know now I have learned from him.

Zahra  

Awesome. Okay. I know so lots of but I have one more just because I work with my husband too. So I gotta ask you, what is the most unusual thing about working with your husband? 

Chelsea  

I would say most unusual thing, we have different schedules and different working styles. And I think that some sometimes it's a challenge to not necessarily to sync up but sometimes it's our challenge in terms of, of mood, or I'll want to go and talk to him about a certain thing, but he'll be really into whatever he's doing. So just kind of balancing how do we how do we support each other's working styles, but I mean, it's been it's great to work with him. But then he does handle the customer service stuff so sometimeshe takes his mood with him. And then we have to, like, Okay, let's go take a walk or whatever because that's a lot of stress. Like I could never really do answering all the support tickets, I can't take that stress, and then try to do what I'm doing.

Zahra  

Yep. Awesome well, it has been such a pleasure. Now I know we're gonna put all of this in the show notes if you guys are looking to link up with Chelsea, find out more about SoStocked just connect with her, you know, professionally and we'll get you all the links to get a hold of her. But what does SoStocked have coming around the bend? How can we connect with you? Give us all the things.

Chelsea  

Yeah so in terms of connected view, go to sostocked.com/connect, That's a bunch of our socials and you can look at a demo of the software. We also have a link to our tools. We have a bunch of free tools. We've got the Amazon Seller news, which is that sostocked.com/news. If you wanted to sign up, it's at sostocked.com/headlines, which is the news that we mentioned. In terms of what we have coming up actually, we have a party coming up that you should come to, it's in December, December 14 at 7pm. If you go to seller meetup.com Amy Wees, a friend or a mutual friend and I are throwing an Austin holiday party it's called a very Austin holiday party, keeping e-com weird, and it's an ugly sweater party, there's gonna be, you know, quirky gag gifts and, you know, silly games and that type of thing. So it's gonna be super fun and that's in Austin in December.

Zahra  

Oh, that's awesome. I think I'm going to I think Amy sent me the invite. That's awesome. I'm really looking forward to it. I haven't gotten to wear one and I didn't sweat it a long time because we are in Texas and I don't change very often. Chelsea, thank you so much for coming onto the show, sharing your experience and your expertise with us. I think that there's so much value here and what we talked about today, and really helping entrepreneurs and CEOs to think critically about and intentionally about the way that they built their brand out and really long term, you know, not just immediate and so it was hugely valuable I can't wait to listen to it again later with you know, I always get more nuggets out of it when I listen after in real time so yeah, thank you so much. 

Chelsea  

Awesome. Yeah, thank you so much for having me loves to have this conversation.