Moon Sonder: The Making of a Brand

Zahra  

Hello, and welcome back to another episode, I am very excited to be talking with Karen Bonnici, founder and CEO of Moon Sonder. This one's a personal favorite of mine, because we've been working with Karen for a while now. And I have been in love with her brand since I heard about it a few years ago, and the spirit of the brand and what it is. So I would like to welcome you, Karen, thank you so much for being here. 

Karen  

Thank you for having me. I'm really excited to share with your audience, I'm always excited to talk to you, Zarah. 

Zahra  

Yes. And I, you know, I want to hear so much about your story. And I'll read the introduction here in a minute for those of you who have not worked or had a product of Karen's before but also just the expertise with which you've grown your business. One thing that I have always admired about you, Karen, if you didn't come out, and I guess we'll get into this in a minute. But you didn't come into the space with a background from Amazon. You literally learned it as you went, you built the plane as fluid. And the degree with which you learned it is really astounding. I've worked with a lot of Amazon companies, and a lot of Amazon CEOs, and even ones that had the background or worked for Amazon in some capacity beforehand, and then branched out and did their own thing. But for you to have just DIY learned it and do it as well as you do, it just blows my mind. So I kind of want to maybe hear a little bit about how you approach learning as an entrepreneur, right? Because I've always really admired that about you.

Karen  

Thank you.

Zahra  

I do want to just say a little bit about you, Karen. So Karen Bonnici's creative journey illustrates the power of passion and purpose as the creator of Super Blanky super towel and Dream Mighty and Moon Sonder products, her inventor spark gave rise to these patented and distinctive products that seamlessly blend comfort, self care and imagination. Karen's unique creations of foster creative play and offer a soothing experience resonating with her steadfast belief in the journey of self discovery, and the embracing of individual strength. So I have to say that what I just read isn't just like fancy coffee, you live and breathe this I have been a part of, and have been able to see and watch you develop products. So specifically for the person who will be using it, and you just pour everything, your intelligence, your, like, amazing design brain that you have, you know, your compassion, your kindness, your love, like everything into these products. And I think that's why they do so well, right, is that you can just tell that somebody really, really put some thought some effort some, you know, like, you just thought about who would be wearing it. And you thought of everything, the entire user experience, how long? How short? Where did the sleeves go? How will they walk in it? How will they move into it? How will they sleep in there? How will it look on the couch, I mean, you just really go through every possible scenario when you build a product and that's, that's really rare. So I guess let's just kick this off a little bit by starting with your story. So tell me a little bit about how a well respected storyteller got into the Amazon game to begin with, what was that like?

Karen  

Well, that's right. I am a storyteller and musician and that's been my career for 27 years. So coming into becoming a product developer is a very, very different thing. Albeit necessary to be a creative and that's what I'd say that I am before anything else is I am a creative I consider myself a creative some people will call that artist, but I don't paint right. But I'm an artist and I make music and I write music. And I'm an artist and I tell stories and I compose stories. And I'm an artist and I make handmade goods, and I give them as gifts, right so that's my artistry. That's my creative creativity. And those are the things I've done throughout it since I was a child, right. And that's just who I am authentically, like, naturally who I am. And I can't find anywhere else to be in this world, that gives me any sort of contentment, or comfort like I don't fit in a lot of places otherwise, well, so that's what I do. But in order to then take these things that I create the songs that, I write the stories that I compose and tell this the products that I handmaking, and then turn into now a full on brand.  I had to do something with the business side of it right. And years ago, when I became a storyteller, I needed to do this as a job I wanted to work, I wanted to be a working storyteller, not just an artist who got an occasional gig. And so I started to really study how to do that and I put myself out there and I created programs, and I created educational programs that I present to libraries and schools and artists and residency programs I've put together to present to teachers to teach their students, the art of storytelling, storytelling and spoken word and music and how to and why to incorporate that in curriculum and the value of language, the value of words and all those things and why it's important. So all those things for me to convey in a put it in a package kind of marketing way to school districts and conference events, and those sorts of centers would then get me work, right. So if I could package it together and say, Hey, this stuff is actually related to the, our National Standards for Education, you should hire me then they would. And so I started really building an understanding that in order to be a working artist, I needed to have a reason for them to want me and hire me. And the school systems especially do really need to have kind of these things, these blocks kind of checked off these marks that they have to check off on their educational standards. So I found those ways and then I, you know, started understanding that I had to go to trade these conferences and presentations and showcases where I song and dance with in front of other children's performers, right and we pitch our work. So I started getting a business mind many years ago and then so then when it was shifting into it for the same number of years, as I've done storytelling, I've done handmade goods and arts and crafts fairs, right. And I knew I had to create, I started noticing some of my stuff wasn't selling and I said well, I better just start making stuff people want. So that you start to study what's gonna work and what's gonna but you want to be unique, you want to be an artist too, right? You want to still be this creative person. So it really was just a all of that melting together knowing that if I wanted to work I had to have I had to know that the market that was out there really had a desire for my product. So that's, you know, along with truly a lot of studying and in reading and like said attending conferences, and when I would go and attend music and storytelling conferences, I didn't always go to the music presentation I would go to the how to be in business as an artist presentation, right. And that's what I've done in Amazon and that's what I've done in I mean prior to getting into Amazon I actually my patented products in my blank gets I own a couple of utility patents on my blankets. When I got them out, I was first doing them those were handmade right, I was doing those at arts and craft fairs and such. And then I got into it of for a few years, and I started learning about the world of licensing, and I said, Well, what is this all about? And so I became a student so I say, I'm a really good student but I have to work really hard. I'm that kid in school who has to work so hard for A's. They don't come easy to me, I work and work and work and work. And my friends and family will tell you that that I work too much but sometimes it's just the effort that I have to put it on. It's never come easy to me, I have to just keep on digging and doing the research. So I'm a good student, I'm a good researcher, and I learned about the world of licensing. I took my product from, you know, I made them as gifts for my nieces and nephews. I wanted to create the superhero cape and a blanket in one and just give them a big hug and tell them look at you are you are strong, you're capable. I put their emblems on their back of their, you know, first initial or their name. And I said this is this is for you to be reminded that you're really strong and capable of doing great things and discovering who you need to be in this world. That was the intent of the gift and then I went from there with a great response friends and family were like, wow, these are really cool. What did you wear, we want to buy them it's good idea. And I said, Okay, let me think about this, because I had I started out with a neck band, but then I went back and to the drawing board, redesigned it and came up with the sleeve idea. And the flat pocket sleeve is what makes it so adaptable, wearable throw blanket a ball, it's really a cool idea I have to. 

Zahra  

The first product that we ever used of yours was the license Paw Patrol, and my son like he's eight now. And so it's like he's growing it a little bit and he still takes it everywhere with him. Yeah, he loves it. He you know, that's his travel blankie it's his going to nana's blanky it's his both have a movie night blankie it's like every Ido is running around playing pretend you know blankie. Yeah, he just loves it. 

Karen  

Yeah, wonderful. I love hearing the stories. I love hearing from customers years later. And in the now in the reviews that we get on Amazon people's response to it, it's just so and that's the other thing I want to say is like, I've always been really motivated by going into the nothingness and making something and somebody's going this is cool, I like this, I want this, I'm gonna put money in it, and I'm gonna buy it like, that, to me has always been the coolest thing. Like if I write a song, and my audience requests that song, because they say, oh, that's our favorite song. Oh, please do that one again, that's so satisfying to me, like, gosh, this was nothing before and I created it out of nothing. And somebody likes it, that's just really, I don't know, it's just really a wonderful feeling. 

Zahra  

About that, really, you know, because it's so common for creatives, you know, to be makers, everybody loves to make stuff. But one thing that I know about you, that I've seen in you, is the discipline to stop faking, knowing when to stop making, and how to optimize and edit and adjust until you get your product where you want it so that it's profitable. So that it's like where it needs to be that you know, and so many creatives, myself included, right? You get kind of caught sometimes in this trap of like, I make stuff and then I get bored so I gotta make more stuff. But I've got like, 1000s of stuff that I've made over the years, but I'm still not hitting financially like what like what you said, like, an amount to support yourself and amount, you know, that makes sense that you can provide jobs for others. And you know, and I've seen that in you and as a creative I've always kind of like wondered, how do you do that, is it something that's just in you or do you have to send in.

Karen  

You know, you don't like we have to be an editor if you want to be in business, you have to be an editor of your stuff, that's what it is. And I I feel as though I I've been able to edit over the years and know this this ain't working, this is not going to go this doesn't sit in the marketplace and it sits well I mean, listen, I've written songs that I love but nobody else. I've told stories and written stories that no nobody else seems they don't seem to relate to them. But so um, and for I will say this before, before the Super Blanky and the innovation of that I was creating some goods, I used to make art and scarves and purses, all sorts of things out of old T shirts, it was just a reconstructive craft business, right? It was called Tee light flight designs. And I got tennis elbow and carpal tunnel from it and honest to goodness, it was that force of editing, that's what forced the next editing. And it was, I'm gonna make something that everybody wants, and I only have to make it 20 times or whatever. And the first like 500 or so Super Blanky I hand sewed myself and then I found a small cut and sew shop. And then I found the world of licensing and I was able to license it and then get it into Target stores. And then eventually, I decided to grow my own brands on Amazon and that's what I'm doing now. And I have factories that are able to make them for me. But I knew that that was the goal because you know, you can't, you do have to if you want to be a business you need, you need to learn how to be an editor. And it comes with all things like you say, like, gosh, I'm really in love with this thing I'm making on Canva and this looks really fun, and I'm just gonna keep going at it going at it. But if it doesn't convert, and you move it over to the digital platform, Amazon or your website, or wherever else, or social media, and you're not getting a response from an audience, you know, oh, as cool as you think it looked, well, the there was no response to it. So that's an edit, we don't create things like that, that looked like that again, and we move that out, and we have to get something else in there. So it's an editing process and you do, it's hard as a creative like to let go of what you think is beautiful. And but on the other hand, there is that thing as a creative, sometimes you just stay on a path, even if it's not fabulous, you want it done, you know that theory done is better, done is better than perfect, right? So sometimes I'll head in that path to, on the other hand, something slightly more perfect, typically sells better. So you do have to lean toward that, you know, the better better than, and maybe not perfect, but.

Zahra  

You know, it's funny, I had that experience in one of the first courses that I ever did online courses. So I come from a family of teachers, and I'm the black sheep, the only one that doesn't, you know, have was a teacher, uncles, aunts, grandmother, parents, all my siblings, all teachers. And so for me to put out this course, I was really in my head because my entire family, I'm the only one didn't have a master's degree in education. So I was super, I mean, it took me years to get out this rinky dink little course, because it had to be perfect. You know, it could not be, you know, and then what I found, once I put it out there is the feedback that I got was, hey, this is really great for someone who wants to go to marketing school and brand school, it's too much for a CEO who's just trying to DIY their brand. Like it's too complicated, it's like the theory of kind of stuff. And what these people are looking for is just like the one two threes up, like get it quick, so I can execute it and that was really hard to hear. Along with these, like two hour video piece, you know, like getting into the research and the science and neuro economics and all this stuff. And it was like, you know, but to hear that and I thought now the way we do it is we offer it as a live workshop. We get the feedback, we love what we do, we make sure it resonates with people and then if it sells well, it converts well, the surveys come back well, then we put that into the course you know. And so but we had to learn that because even when you think it's perfect, you don't get to decide your customers. And so, you know, it was the course that I wanted to take, but I was not my customer you know and learning that.

Karen  

Absolutely know who your customer is take care of them.

Zahra  

So tell me a little bit about you know, you talked about kind of going from storytelling and then do a you know kind of a small fairs and and you know, craft events and then slowly kind of working your way up to where you are now and this fantastic brand that you've built. How did you know you could do this? Like, was there a point just because it's not your background. And so sometimes I feel like as entrepreneurs, if you don't have an MBA in business, you have this impostor syndrome, or when did you say like, I'm willing to commit, like, I'm ready to go to the big factory, because I'm doing this thing, like, and I know I can do it, I feel confident doing it, you know, maybe a little scared to you, but like confident, mostly confident. When was that moment for you?

Karen  

Well honestly, you know what, since the since I created this, I put so much intention into it, and honest to goodness, I created it, you know, for my own children, too, right? My own children, at that time were young adults and moving and they were in college. And my daughter was maybe late high school, or maybe she was in college, when I've created it for the kids but I have a big heart for children. That's why I've been in the creative performance community in the children's arts for for these many years. And I really wanted to make this gift to my nieces and nephews and say this, I believe in you and I want you to believe in yourself, too. And these are your Ruby slippers, it's not a Ruby slipper it's your cape, right? It's your superhero cape, you wrap yourself in it every day, and you tell yourself, I'm capable, I got this, I can do hard things. And that alone is what has compelled me this entire time and frankly, I couldn't not do it, Zarah. I was about, let's see, I guess it about three and a half years ago, when I decided to jump in and start learning the Amazon engine. It was the thing that I I couldn't sleep at night, if I didn't do this, I just I feel like I've created a really cool product like, I think the physical shape of it is really cool and clever. But what it can do and what it can represent that and self empowerment that shift to what's possible, toward living a life that brings in the happiness quotient that we all strive for. I felt like I would just it would be that would be the art that would die in me right?  If I didn't, I couldn't not do it, I'm just so compelled. And I always have been so compelled to deliver that message and it's kind of been this thing ever since I was a kid, as this creative kid, I've always liked to do things that are meaningful. I am definitely a I get I'm a little heady of a person right? I find myself funny. We like humor my family is is priority. You gotta be funny to like, survive in my family. But I'm also a very heady heart space person and this is just very much filled my heart and my intention for it. And in my own life, I feel as though what my brand intends to be is what I try to live my life doing. I intend to live a life of that's fulfilling that serves other members that can be meaningful to others, and through what I am gifted to be here, like I believe that I've been given gifts, I believe we've all been given gifts, and it's our job. It's our job to to fulfill on the promise that was given us when we were born to exercise the gifts and if we haven't done that we're kind of not doing our job. We're not doing enough. I just feel like I can't leave the thing, this thing alone and it's my art. It's my heart. It's part of my gifts and apparently I have a bit of a gift for business too. I'm you know, I'm very like I said I have to work really hard at it and I'm a student so I can learn skills and I'm good at that. But I I just have to do the work. Because I've been given so much I've been given this gift and I have to return it. I think we are on this planet to serve each other. We're not here, just for us to make us happy and buy all the things and feel all the goods and enjoy all this, this ice cream sundae. We're here to take care of each other right so.

Zahra  

You know, what's funny about that is, it's always been such an honor for me to watch you live in integrity with the spirit of your brand, like you really do. And I think you hit the nail on the head when you said about, we're put here to serve others. And I think that there's a real power in that thought because as entrepreneurs, you know, like one of the things that we combat a lot, is that fear of failure, you know? But really, that's about us and so how do you get over that if you think about, but who could I help? If I wasn't, you know, and that like when you say that, when you said that, it just hit me, like, that's exactly how you show up for your customers, for the people that are receiving the gifts, you know, the people that are wearing these blankets, like, that's who you show up and having that competence and having that bravery as a CEO of your company, and then that translates into that spirit. And that gift, you know, like, even if you strip away the product, the brand is there, because you are that, you know, it really is just really an honor to watch. 

Karen  

I'm glad that that comes across, I don't know how else to be right. That's just who I am and I'm really excited that I get to put that into a brand. So I'm grateful, I'm really grateful for it.

Zahra  

I want to talk to you about something. So you had mentioned so starting now, it sounds like you know, when you were first building this this business in the beginning, it was very product focused, right? And then at what point do you think that you started to see this as more than just products, but as a brand. And as something that could do, you know, have an impact beyond just the awesomeness of the blankets and the products themselves.

Karen  

Sure, well, I think that I always knew that the heart of what this product can create within the response to the recipient that it can create. I didn't know that that was part of the beginning of the brand build, but there it was, if I would have just created a knot that blankets aren't cool by themselves. And not that superhero capes aren't cool by themselves but if I would have created one or the other, I don't know that I would have been as compelled to be excited about the brand that it could become. Because this is, you know, when we put on a blanket, we really are doing that to comfort ourselves and keep ourselves in, you know, to cocoon ourselves and to warm ourselves and to bring us comfort. And then under the combo of it being a cape wow, that means I'm wearing this cape that wraps me up and I can believe that this cape is for me. And that's, you know, like, once I started putting all those together, the brand was already coming together without my knowing it. Then I started to learn about brand and then all together, it became really important to shift toward thinking of building a brand of because if that's the first thing that's important to me, gosh, I can say that in so many other ways under you know, the brand now that we've created called Moon Sonder that this all encompassing brand, can do all those things and bring in products and feels all the good feels that the blanket itself by itself was originally intended to have so.

Zahra  

Really interesting to hear too because I know we've never we deal with, you know, onboarding, and we're working with clients to begin with, they're worried that sales process, one of the first and loudest and biggest objections that we hear is I'm afraid that by focusing on my brand, I'm going to limit myself. I'm either not gonna be able to hit people, you know, somebody's gonna miss out on my product. Or I'm gonna get like the handcuffs put on me where I can't make products that I want to make and the other but it's really, really cool to see that your brand journey has done exactly what it's supposed to and really that clarity, that opens up the possibilities that are relevant, you know. And so really kind of that focus isn't so much a slap on the wrist, you know, for things that you can't do restrictive, but that now your imagination can apply. Like, if this is what the brand is, then what else would say this, like, what else could I think of?

Karen  

Yeah, but I understand that, that confining feeling, because when I started to understand that I wanted to create a brand and start to really understand what that was, I get that, for other CEOs going through and experiencing that too. It is like, Oh, does that mean I can't, oh, if I get stuck in this corner, can't I have x, can I do that? Can I and I as a creative last thing you want to do to create if it's caged them. Put them in a space that they can't grow beyond so but no now where the brand is sitting, you know, we've got our adults size products called Dream Mighty, we got our kids size product, Super Blanky, that will come out with Super Towel next year. But I with all those products sitting under it, I see so much possibility and growth and and then so much more, I just see so much more, I just, yeah, I don't have enough time to get it all done what I want to create, that's what so that now I'm on the other end of it, right? It's just very fun.

Zahra  

That's amazing. One thing that I wanted people to understand from you, you know, because you are the living breathing example of this, is that sometimes as impact driven entrepreneurs, people who, you know, they feel this kind of internal conflict of, I can either make the almighty buck, or I can be a good human and help people, and never the two shall exist. But can we talk about how the success that you've had in your brand and your business has actually allowed you to make an impact for causes that you care deeply about. Can you tell us a little bit about that to the person who's listening this feeling like they're selling out if they make money?

Karen  

Yeah, well, let's just say that money has never been my main focus, not not once. And I definitely, I mean, we here the thing is, do the thing that makes you happy, and the money will come an it's all true, I've been very blessed, that that has what has happened. So no, money is just never been the first thing. I don't know when it can be I woul not have chosen to be a professional storyteller and musician if I wanted to make money. I just wanted to keep working and pay bills. So this work, you know, I want to keep working, pay bills with work that I loved. And that was valuable to, to the kids and the teachers and the, you know, people I've been able to teach over the years. So I'm saying with this brand is I know it's never been a deciding factor money. And there are you know, there is a cause that I support and it's a breast cancer organization, because I too, went through breast cancer while I was launching my product on Amazon. So our product supports an organization called the Pink Fund and I'll tell you a little story, I think, I don't know if I've shared this fully with you zero, but when I was I mean, I was like maybe 10 months into learning Amazon. No, I was no I was getting Oh, I know I was getting ready to place my first order that's what it was.  So I've been through my year of training, whatever it is, and done all this stuff and been in contact with I found my factory and got the packaging and develop the product and got everything and then got cancer. And I was like what in the world am I we're gonna do with this, but the additional scary thing was, it was at the end of the year. And I was getting ready to place my order, like January for my product and and suddenly I was faced with a really big financial burden, because I've been self employed for 27 years. But no, I guess we had insurance but I've been self employed and paying for my own insurance for like 15 to 20 years or so. And then it was the own, it was the one year the one year in my entire time I decided to get a cheap plan. And the cheap plan was non ACA compliant, not affordable, non Affordable Care Act compliant, which meant that they didn't have to have to pay for all of my surgeries for my breast cancer surgeries. Snd it was I was looking at over $25,000 out of pocket and I'm like, Oh, well, I'm going to need that, to pay to place my order and ship it to the US. I need that money.  I can't pay for my cancer, I have to buy my blankets and so yeah, so that was really, really scary and awful. And it was yucky, and I hated it and what I ended up doing was, I was fortunate enough that I did have a backup, like kinda like Aflac plan that supported some of those costs, as well, as I shifted, and I had to make a decision to put off my surgery until January, which is an awful feeling. And the reason I did that is because my surgeon said, if you wait till January, you'll be in a new plan and then, you know, or I call the insurance company that like all of its paid for, but X amount of dollars, right? So then it's going to be a lot, lot less and so that's what I decided to do. Now my surgeon said, you're going to be fine, it's okay. I would not approve your surgery to wait another six weeks, if I didn't think it was okay. But it's an awful feeling an awful, awful feeling to sit there and say, Well, I'm just going to let this cancer sit in my body for another six weeks, because I can't afford to pay this bill. So I'm sorry, I digress but it just it makes me very upset, and emotional when I think about it. Because so many people are just compelled with these awful decisions to have to make when it comes to you're stressed out, you've got this diagnosis, you've got maybe a child who's sick, so many, so many diseases and cancer related diseases, especially because there's so long term. These expenses are it's an awful thing.  So anyway, the Pink fund is this amazing organization that supports breast cancer patients that need to help pay some bills to get you by. And I learned about the Pink Fund, I actually did not take funding from them at the time, a little bit of pride, and a little bit of shifting of things and I was able to pay my bills and get things moved to January, which dramatically reduce my costs. But I have a heart for this organization and what they do and really appreciate what they do. So we have a blanket that does support the Pink Fund and, and yeah, you know if I could afford to I'd give away all those blankets, and I don't care if it makes money on them, I just that cause is so powerful. And when you've been through that, it it's yucky, it's a just a yucky, yucky, awful thing to go through. So I'm happy to support them and money, there too, is just not a deciding factor. It's not about making money, it's about providing and being in service to others. That's our job, right, we got to be here. My parents were incredibly generous people with their time, and their gift giving and their financial gifts. They were just lots of contributions, lots of giving, and I'm blessed to be able to carry on that belief system so.

Zahra  

That's why you use you know, we talked about those talents that you were given at birth, to support these causes, you know, but for your business most people which is just as you know, it's not about the dollar amount, it's about the heart of the game. But, you know, most people working a nine to five can throw 20 bucks at it here and there but you have been able to leverage your business to provide so much more financially to these causes. And so like using that business, to both support your own livelihood to showcase the talents of being service to others. And then even beyond that, just to help impact some of these organizations that needed the help. Because it's very true, you know, what you said about it'd be an awful feeling to not be able to take care of your body in the way that you need to or to be able to help someone take care of your body, someone you love, you know, take care of themselves in a way you get them healthy in the way that you you know they need. And so to be able to find ways to do work that matters through your business, I think is really cool. And it's a different way of looking at entrepreneurship. It's 100% And I think that so different. I think that's what makes small business the backbone of who we are as society, you know, because it's the people who who have a heart for people that are making businesses nowadays and who are giving back to causes, you know and I love how you phrase that because it's really important.  I remember I spoke to I was at a conference once and I heard this man speak and he said, you know, multi millionaire, maybe eight, eight figure, multi eight figure earner, right? And he said, You know, I used to feel really icky about money. I thought anybody who had it was sleazy and slimy thing. And I thought that the more I made, the more fake I was, and the more disingenuous I was and he said, you know, and it got to a point where I felt like, if I was successful in business, it meant I was unsuccessful as a human, you know? And, yeah, and he said, and it wasn't until I realized that, just because I knew how to make money, that's nothing to be ashamed of, it's where do I put it. And how did I make it and what did I do with it when I had it, and so when that struck him, that he could make an impact with it, he's now built schools in you know, countries all over all over the world and helps bring clean water to villages and such. And, you know, he says, and so now I get excited when I look over my financials, I don't feel shame, I don't feel guilt, I don't feel those things. Because growing up, we didn't come from money and so when you don't come from money, you're taught to think a certain way about people who have money, and what they had to have done to get it and I thought that was really that comes to me, because of how you phrase it is very similar, as, you know, reminding people that your business could be a great tool for you to create that impact that you want.

Karen  

Right we do another organization to that I want to support more, and I'm trying to figure out how to do this, but they're called Humble Design and they are so amazing. They take people out of homelessness, put them in to a beautiful home that's designed and decorated. And they have all these donations of furniture and everything rugs and everything that are gently used and so we've given them a bunch of blankets. And these kit, it's like that America was at Home Makeover show, whatever that Ty Pennington thing years ago that the family comes into the big reveal, and they're coming into their house, and it's so adorable, but what's so powerful about this organization, I hope I have the numbers, right, they take the chance of like being homeless again, is about 50% or so and they take it down to about 5% If they put them in, isn't that cool? So it drops it by like 45% chance of being homeless again, like they drop their chances by 45%. You completely change their lives and you're comfortable and you're you feel so at peace and calm. And this is something I want to hold on to and it's just so powerful to me. So I think like the ways we can act in the world and the ways we can give in the world man, I want to become a millionaire so I can do more of that.

Zahra  

Yeah, the more you have, the more you give, I love it. I want to ask you, you know something about I see you so much more than just a tremendous entrepreneur and a person with you know, a heart for people. But as a as a really inspiring mentor for people who are coming up and feel in their bones that they can make a business of impact. But they just don't have the confidence to do it, there's something there. And so what would you say to the person who has that idea floating around in their head but even louder than that idea, are their voices that say I don't have enough money? Someone's already doing something like this? I have no clue where to start. It's not like my ideas gonna end world hunger so what's the big deal? I only make this I only bake cakes or you know?

Karen  

Yeah, I get it. 

Zahra  

Now what would you what would you say to them as the person who wants to career.

Karen  

Yeah, I did it all I said all those things, I set them all. Every single one of them and I'm glad I stopped saying them right? Because anything can stop us at and all those things cuz that's the fear we do, there's a reason why there's a fear of failure is because entrepreneurship the stats are really high for failing. I get it, but don't go into it without being educated right? Do the work, do and do the right work don't man, I remember doing market research years ago and going to my local small business administration and having to do market research to see if there was a place for my product and going through data and back then it was paper all on paper, or like, I had to use their, their file the link to their computer system. And it wasn't just as available as it as it is now on the internet and I was so intimidating and so hard to do, I was so hard, it was so hard. And doing those hard things are the right things to do right. So that's the thing I would say is do the hard things that are the right things to do and you're dry. And we're like we talked about earlier, when you're driving down the path of I really like this piece of artwork, this beauty that I'm making, and or I'm just working on it, and I just want it finished, maybe it's not finished, right. And maybe it's not the right thing, and it's okay to go back to the drawing board. And not only okay, but it's vital to go back to the drawing board and revisit whether or not this is going to be the thing, the right move.  Like if you're an Amazon seller, and you've got a product and you have an idea, and it's seems like a really fabulous idea, but the data is telling you otherwise, you might want to you might want to re evaluate and start researching again. There's just far too much, there's so much competition out there. We do have to make right choices so it's a really it's I have to say it's a hard thing to tell somebody to go into business for themselves, and live your dreams and do it all when it's so hard. I've been climbing this mountain for 10 years, man and it's still hard and I'm still climbing and I don't know when I'm going to be done. But I do think the best thing I can say is make solid, educated decisions. I am and but I also want to go back a little and say you do have to believe in yourself. You know, you have to believe that you can do hard things you can have to you know, when I was diagnosed right, here I am. I was diagnosed and the day before I went into surgery, I put down the deposit for my factory, because I remember, it wasn't until about eight, six months ago that I kind of was going through some paperwork and I realized that was a thing. And then I remembered I know I did that because I was like, Oh, I'm going to have to surgery, I guess I'm not going to be feeling well for a while, let me get this order and make sure this gets done.  So because I believed in it so much and I believed in me, I knew that I could do this. I just I had to believe in me, I did have to have this belief system in me and say that I could do it. You do have to believe in yourself and it's so hard because it's the imposter syndrome and you don't want to be the this lofty dreamer. But I also had data, right? I'd been through, you know, the Small Business Administration paperwork years ago, I'd been in front of my customers, I knew I'd had success in Target stores with our other product line. I knew that I had really smart data and research and examples behind me showing that it would work so I did the smart thing and then I did dig deep and said nope, I gotta do this I'm capable, I can do this. I can do hard things. I think that's the thing I just got to keep saying is I can do hard things. But I'll only be willing to do the hard things if you've done the right research and you've really understood there's a market for what you're creating so.

Zahra  

I love that the listeners are hearing it, you know, two very important things from you and one is just your decision, you decided it was going to work and so the rest is just details. The rest is just the hard work, the data, but you are going to make this business work. It may not look like the way you thought it was gonna look when you started, but you were going to make this work and you were going to figure it out. Not figuring it out just wasn't an option and you just believed in yourself like this is gonna work. I'm gonna make it work. I have everything I need inside of me to make this work. I may not have you know the money now but I have what it takes to make the money that I need to make, define the money to, you know, figure it out, like you always, and I think that's so important. You know, when you say that you just have that confidence in yourself that you can do hard things, if you're willing to do, it's just am I willing to or may not. And I think that's so important for listeners to hear, because that's that grit that entrepreneurs. And it's right there in you, you know, and I think that that's tremendous. And then talking about your emotions, and I want to thank you and acknowledge you for speaking to the emotional side of entrepreneurship, because so often we like to consider ourselves as CEOs of these incredibly logical creatures.  But sometimes there's more emotion in there than we like to admit but understanding where you can allow for the emotions of being an entrepreneur, but like you said, they're there. But they're in the passenger seat, they're not driving the bus, they're not making the decisions, that's where the data is for. That's what the research is for, that's what the hard work is for, you know, but acknowledging that it does exist. And I think that's lovely to hear you say that, because starting off as an entrepreneur, I remember feeling early on, like, Oh, my God, I'm too emotional for this stuff like, I cannot be a CEO, because I get my feelings hurt when I don't make a sale. Or, you know, somebody gives me feedback, or I feel scared about this or that, or I feel worried that you know, I remember what, you know, the businesses, it was doing hard just thinking like I pay people's paychecks, it's their livelihood, their children eat because just being so overwhelmed by the emotion and then feeling like maybe I'm just not cut out for this, maybe I'm just too emotional of a person. You know, and, but I think I would have loved to have heard back then someone saying, like, now we're all humans, and we all have emotions, you just gotta learn how to not let them like completely take over and derail you and like, be poppin wheelies in the front and you know, driveway, you gotta you got to take the reins, and you know, understand that that's just part of it, you know, but that's not where the decisions are made from, you know, not to be reactionary. And so I love that you shared that with people because I think those are two important more than how to SEO optimize something, or how to develop a product, you know, kind of advice. This is the stuff that makes some breaks entrepreneurs who have a heart to help people, you know, so thank you for that. Thank you for sharing that and being willing to share you know, that message.

Karen  

I don't know any other ways here I'd be just a plain old liar if I didn't tell that part. That's like the biggest part of it for me it's like you're just straight up vulnerable, but eventually you if you're doing the right work, and you're doing the right research, and you're measuring the data and you're you're you're really researching, can I afford this? How much does this cost? Will it be profitable? What can What will it cost to advertise? Where are the platforms that are the most successful to then create a market and all those things, unless you figure those things out and then discover that that there's a possibility that this could work? You have to have all that in place that belief system comes and then eventually you get going and you're not doing it all by yourself either. So I have teams right I have a team now that supports me that I employ and then I have a agencies, several agencies and you are at the top of my list my branding agency.

Zahra  

We are honored to be with you on this. So I want to do before we because are you willing to do rapid fire with me just have some fun. Just so people get to know Karen a little bit more. 

Karen  

Okay, so long is I'm scared, but let's do it anyway.

Zahra  

I promise it'll be painless just for questions. dream vacation, go.

Karen  

Oh, I'm with my children, my adult children and their significant others and my family and just go into a beach. any beach with 82 degrees and low humidity.

Zahra  

I love the specification, especially right now in Texas where everything's 110, and I appreciate oh my god, it's crazy. It's like 108 107. Yeah, so like right now even the beach sounds dreadful, take me to Alaska. All right, so aside from Moon Sonder, because we all know that's the best, what is your favorite Amazon product on the market right now?

Karen  

Oh, I'm okay. Hey, I have a subscription to Whimsy Dog Treats, I couldn't say that too loud, my dog is sitting at my feet. He knows the word, I'm not saying it in the voice I say it in.

Zahra  

Like do the spinny tail. 

Karen  

And I have them on subscription so they are a must have. And, you know, I just love brands that can build these subscription based businesses. I really admire that model. It's pretty cool. So yeah, it's a great product. It's one of that comes to my house every month. 

Zahra  

I love it. I love it. So tell me about an entrepreneur that inspires us since you're such an inspiration to others. 

Karen  

Oh, gosh. Okay, so I really have, I have a little bit of a list to tell you the truth when it comes to that, like I have women. They're all women, right? They're women in business who I've admired in my lifetime. I have friends that I've watched their careers they're actually executive women. My sister has been an executive for years and a couple of my dear friends. my friend Andrea, and women I've leaned on for years for just support my friend Laura. And I've gone to them but when it comes to like an so I just really respect how they've managed their teams and I've learned so much from them over the years how to deal with problems and businesses. But if I have like a goat if I need like a little bit of inspiration, right, I go to LinkedIn and I see what Sara Blakely is saying that day.

Zahra  

I love her yes 100%.

Karen  

Yeah and she's you know, she created like my product, this idea from nothing. Her Spanx products, it was just she cut off some likes to not nylons, and put them on and thought this is what people need and she's created this, this monolithic organization and it's powerful. And the brand itself is powerful for women and I have such mad respect for what she's built. And she just has a lot of inspiring things to say so I like to go and read about her and listen to her speak every now and again. There are lots of them, but they are all they're all women, I suppose because I know what a challenge it is to be a woman having been through. Years ago, I started I used to work for the General Motors, right? I never even told you that before I was a storyteller and before. So after out of college, I was working for EDS and General Motors and I was in the corporate world. It was it didn't fit exactly me, right. But I so finding myself back in the corporate world was kind of shocking, but the only way I could do it and do it well was to follow women who, who had there was something meaningful about the work that they were doing right and their work mattered. And they cared about their employees and they care about the output of the products that they and their company are making. Like I really, really madly respect those women in my life and people like you know, someone like Sara Blakely, who does that work and because it's such a struggle, being a woman in business, so I kind of find my inspiration there.

Zahra  

I love it. I love it. I love it. You know, we I love that now we're starting to talk about it more about being a woman in business and you know, the challenges that presents? What about a book or a podcast that you are super into right now?

Karen  

I just finished not long ago, a book called Uncontainable by Kip Tindell and he is the founder, he and his partner are founders of the Container Store. 

Zahra  

Oh yeah, I am a fan and I liked the home edit line. My OCD...

Karen  

Your books, you did something with your books, didn't you?

Zahra  

Color coded. 

Karen  

Yeah, the book Uncontainable is so wonderful because what Kip Tindell and his partner I forget his partner saying when they started, what their intention was, and what they've done throughout, is to care and hug their customers, and really give attention to their customers needs and to develop products and bring in things that could be of service to their customers. So they're really they are a product, they're a retail store, right? So you can think of them as a product organization, but they're not. The thing I would say that if you ask, you know him directly, what are you think of yourself as a service based business or a product supplier, he'd probably tell you, he's in service to people. It's just a really powerful book, and really talks all about, like taking care of the customer and taking care of his team. He does such an amazing job building his team and caring about the team. The people that he employs, and that's always been such a priority and then of course, then that comes across to the customer. If the, in the employees apparently it's a great place to work at The Container Store, right? They've got a lot of like, it's one of the best places to work in the US so yeah, they really care about their employees, they really care about their customers. And it's a it's just a great inspirational feel good business book, so I love that.

Zahra  

I also like just, I've always dreamed, like redesigning their layout their customers, because I love them so much. As an OCD person, I always you know, the branding look like the brand experience and they're still really up like, Oh, he's a dream. 

Karen  

Well, I read the book, so I'm probably within seven degrees of separation from Kip Tindell.

Zahra  

Awesome, that's amazing. Okay, so before we wrap this up, because I know I've kept you way longer than I said, I would, but you just have so much value and so many gifts to share that I just couldn't let you go any sooner and it and I'm sorry for that and I do thank you for your generosity with your time. Is there anything that any final words anything that I haven't covered, something that you want to share? I know we're going to link in the show notes, links to you know, obviously, where they can get their Super Blanky or they're doing mighty lanky also, or we can support the Pink Fund So, all of that.

Karen  

So I would say, what did or my links to under my website is that we were talking about.

Zahra  

How can we get in touch with you any final thoughts or ideas you want to share? We're going to link it all for you so if you're driving don't freak out. You can just click on it when you get home. We have it all there for you.

Karen  

Yeah, the brand Mood Sonder Life mood, you can find us everywhere on social at Moon Sonder Life all one word. Yeah, so Moon Sonder Life and then I'm on LinkedIn. I'm Karen Bonnici. On LinkedIn, I don't think I have an A in the middle of my name. But yeah, if you want to reach out to me on LinkedIn, you have questions and you're interested to know more and I can be of support to you or share something, a word of wisdom or inspiration, happy happy to connect with people. I love to cuddle. I'm a definite definite people collector so happy to collect and talk to you and chat with you so that's how you can find me yeah.

Zahra  

All right. Awesome, well, thank you so much Karen for your time. I really love talking with you. I think our listeners are gonna get so much out of this. I can't wait for them to continue to connect with you and follow you and experience all the amazing products that you have in your heart and soul into because they really are just top notch and we couldn't be prouder to work with you.

Karen  

Thank you I'm very very excited continue to work with you. I'm really proud of what we've been able to build and I'm really happy to give you this time and I hope it's a value to your your listeners. So thanks for for being for you and all you do for us to over at Moon Sonder.

Zahra  

Alright guys, well this is us clocking out.