Executive Functioning tips for Teens and Adults with Dr. Lethco

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You are listening to the Balancing Act podcast. Here's your hosts,

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Jamie Wonko and Joe Vitale.

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Well, hello, and we are officially recording.

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Oh, hey, friends. We are back. This is Joe and Jamie at the Balancing Act podcast.

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We are so excited to be here tonight with all of you.

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I'm so glad that you guys are here listening to the show once again.

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And how are we doing, Ms. Wonko?

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Are you having a day? You seem like you're having a day. We're doing great.

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We're doing great. I'm so excited. I cannot wait to talk to our guests today.

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Yes. But before we do that exciting thing and talk to our guests,

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can I tell you something?

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Can I kind of let you know? Yes. Of course. Let you know that all...

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Yes, always. Our season three is brought to you by our presenting sponsor,

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Teacher's Insurance Plan.

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Make sure you check out their website, which is tagged in this episode for more

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information and to get a quote. Teacher's insurance plan, oil insurance that

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brings exclusive educator savings and exceptional customer care to New Jersey

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and Pennsylvania employees. All right.

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Wasn't that exciting? So someone who is not from New Jersey or Pennsylvania

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is our guest for today. Let's bring her in.

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Dr. Lethko, how are you? So good to be here on the Balancing Act podcast.

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Great to be here. I'm excited to talk all things executive functioning.

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Yes, please fix everything.

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You're in the right place I sure as hell hope so So, welcome We would love to

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hear a little bit about you, your background You know, what makes Dr. Lethko, Dr. Lethko,

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Yeah, so I am a clinical psychologist and neuropsychologist.

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I studied in Berkeley, California, and I fell in love with executive functioning there.

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I'm reading about executive functioning tests, and I got passionate about it,

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did a dissertation about it, and since then have been on this executive functioning

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train that has blown up on the internet and has brought me a lot of joy and passion.

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I think it's a topic that a lot of people have heard of, don't know much about,

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but then once they get in it, they're excited about it.

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I agree. And how do you define executive functioning?

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So if you think about a CEO of a company, their job is to oversee all of the

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workers and figure out what are the priorities for this company going forward.

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They tell the company, here are our deadlines, this is what to focus on,

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this is how to move forward, they make sure deadlines are met, all of that.

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And they make sure that a goal gets accomplished.

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So in everyday terms, I think about executive functioning as goal-directed behavior.

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So anything from the moment you have the idea that you want to do something

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to actually getting it done.

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It's this big umbrella term that includes everything from planning and prioritizing

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and organizing and time management, to things like being aware of how your actions

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affect consequences, keeping track of time,

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understanding how to adapt when feedback is given.

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So all of these things go under executive functioning.

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Essentially, it's everything you want to do if you want to achieve any goal.

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Yeah, which is something that, you know, I think this topic for us as we continue

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in our season three is really going to be a something that we're going to be coming back to.

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We have a lot of, you know, besides yourself, we have other guests that are

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going to be coming on to to talk about this, especially what it looks like in the classroom space.

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Because as Jamie and I've talked on the show and around the,

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you know, I want to say the water cooler, but there isn't a water cooler around

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the water cooler at work.

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We talked about the idea that like, you know, the kids are different now.

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Attention spans are different.

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Where they get their intrinsic motivation from is different and how we can work

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as educators to like anticipate what's going to happen and how we can deal with

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those problems in that space.

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I think this is this executive function and the idea of learned helplessness

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are two things that we're going to be trying to tackle.

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So if you could just fix everything, like I said, that would be amazing because

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we definitely want to keep this conversation going as we move through our season three.

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So from a parent perspective, what are some early signs that a teen,

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their child might be struggling with executive function?

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Yeah, that's a great question. I think for me, one of the biggest red flags

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is when parents are doing a disproportionate amount of things for their teen.

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So other teens are showing independence, doing it on their own,

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and the parent is feeling like they have to jump in and organize and prioritize

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and follow up and remind they have to do all of this extra work and they're

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getting burned out and it's causing tons of friction in that relationship.

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That's often a big sign for me that there's an executive functioning issue at play.

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And what steps do you think a parent can take at that point to start to deal

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with the problem, right?

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Yeah, absolutely. I think identifying what area,

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find one, maybe two areas that are causing the most friction and seeing if you

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can work collaboratively to address those things and increase the teen's independence in that area.

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Um there's a great book the everything's parent

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guide to executive dysfunction something close to

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that um and that also has like a self-assessment

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so you can answer some questions and figure out which area

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and then turn to the chapter most relevant to that so i

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think that's a great starter and if as you're starting to go down that route

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you're feeling like wow this is a much bigger issue it's sometimes a really

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great idea to offload that to someone like an executive functioning coach who

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can then kind of act as that intermediary and help offload that thing so that

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you can preserve your relationship as parent.

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Do you find that it becomes an issue more so in teens, or is there a particular

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age when it starts to show up a little bit more and becomes a concern?

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Middle school is a big area because up until fourth, fifth grade,

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teachers and parents are often doing things for them, right?

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Like the teacher has the organization system set up, right? They send them home

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with the folder already labeled, right?

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Parents are expected to be planning and calendaring and scheduling all of that for their teen.

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When we get to middle school, now the teen's juggling multiple classes and they're

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expected to do that on their own.

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So there's this huge jump in executive functioning demands around middle school.

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And that's where if a teen is struggling, just is a year or two behind developmentally

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in those areas, it really shows up in middle school.

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What? So from a school perspective, right?

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And I see this all day long. I also work right before this podcast.

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I had two executive function coaching sessions this evening.

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And I think what you're saying about parents offloading this on to someone else,

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I think, makes a lot of sense.

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And it's also from the perspective of as as parents, and I'm sure Jamie can

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attest this to as as we get older, we don't know anything anymore in regards

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to like our kids. Right. They don't they don't want to listen to us.

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Sometimes they just need to hear it from someone else because that relationship

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that you're talking about, that tension, you know, you don't want to become the source of tension.

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You want to be able to alleviate that, especially in the middle school child, right?

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Developing brain, hormonal imbalances, all the things. It's not just the executive

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function piece. It's also the biological piece. I'm sure that goes along with it, right?

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So as people that work in schools, right, what can we do in our classrooms to

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help support kids who we see that are struggling with executive function?

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Yeah, absolutely. And to that point,

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I actually earlier this year, I went to a school to do an all school wide teacher

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training exactly on this, because I think more and more teachers are experiencing

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exactly what you're talking about,

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which is the executive functioning and just like student approach landscape

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has changed drastically.

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And we're finding more and more students having greater needs in these areas.

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I think one of the biggest things as a teacher is building in times for students

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to self-reflect and self-evaluate and then creating a plan for what they're

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going to do about that moving forward.

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So having a structured sheet that just says, like, you know,

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what's the challenge that I want to work on?

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What's my specific plan? Why do I think it will work?

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And then the following week, at the same time, they say, how did it go?

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Why did it go that way? And based on that outcome, am I going to do the same

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thing or am I going to do something else?

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Right. So that really structured reflection is a really lovely foundation for

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all these areas of executive functioning.

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And students have a lot more buy-in because they're the ones in charge. Right.

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So what is, so if I'm a listener, as I am, of course, I'm wondering if our listeners

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are thinking the same thing. Do you have a why?

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Especially for those of us that have been teaching for, you know,

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20 plus years, and we see this change in an overwhelming number of kids.

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Is there anything that you attribute that to?

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Yeah, there's some interesting book about just the rise of neurodivergence in

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general in the population.

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And some people are saying this is because we're noticing it more.

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We have more room for it. We're not just putting these people off into the side

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of our community. They're actually accepted or celebrated in some ways that

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we're finding places for them

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in our community, especially with me in the Bay Area with the tech boom.

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That's a great place for a lot of neurodivergent folks to really thrive and

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do well and so you know with those genes being passed on we're seeing more and

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more of that i think there's also some concerns about um.

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Yeah, parenting, it's not always just this parenting approach or this teacher

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approach. I think it's a combination of so many things all at once.

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So I don't know that there is a definitive, this is where this is coming from.

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More so, this is where we're at, and let's see what we can do about it, is my approach. Yeah.

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I think that there's a lot of teachers that can, that would get on board with

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the parenting side of it.

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Because it's, you know, it's like whose responsibility is it?

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But really it's everyone's responsibility and a shared responsibility.

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And like you pointed out earlier, the child's responsibility as much as anybody else's.

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And to be able to give them like those skills that they need if,

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you know, because it's not automatic, you know.

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So, like, I can think of, like, having study skills as a class for a full year,

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you know, that used to be, you know, something that we provided.

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And then it, you know, oh, they don't need that. They'll figure it out.

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And they don't and they do, you know.

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And so there are, you know, there's lots of interesting points.

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I was really digging into a lot of your social media, and it's so fascinating

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to me with things that are provided to adults in their work environments.

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And I was just curious if you could talk a little bit about that. Yeah, so...

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It's really common when a child or a teenager is growing up,

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if they have an identified challenge in an executive functioning,

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it's really common for them to get accommodations.

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But once they're out of school, now they're in the workplace and suddenly everyone

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expects them to be working just the same as everyone else.

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Suddenly, they're expected to be able to do everything without those accommodations.

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And in fact, that's not the case. And so some of what I've been talking about

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on social media recently has been, hey, if you're an adult, you can still get

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accommodations in the workplace.

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And this is what those looks like. So there is a lovely website, Ask Jan,

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which has a list of resources, accommodations that are reasonable for an employer

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to make for anyone with an identified disability.

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And so that is something that someone can advocate for with their HR department

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and can be a game changer in terms of their functioning,

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job satisfaction, and ability to progress and actually get raises and go through a company long term.

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So definitely something that I think a lot of people don't realize is available

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to them. Yeah, I had not. I had not at all.

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So I think that's, it's fascinating, especially because, like you said, there is such a space for.

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Talking about neurodivergent. And I mean, I can't imagine one single person

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not being able to identify or name at least one or two family members.

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And I mean, for me, I have, you know, I have a nephew and he did have those

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accommodations throughout elementary school, middle school, high school, and into college.

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And you kind of go, how's it going to go? And what are you, the immediately

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reading and listening to you and knowing that he is also going to have that

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available in the workplace makes such a huge difference.

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I can't imagine that anyone isn't touched in some way by someone,

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you know, who has this experience and, you know, and has been learning to,

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you know, improve themselves in some way in their,

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you know, executive functioning skills.

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And it's something that Joe and I talk about quite often because it's something

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that he struggles with in some ways.

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And so the fact that he's been able to adapt and then coach kids to do that

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is really an incredible thing.

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Yeah, I think I'm a product of my environment, especially when I look at things

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like decision fatigue and the amount of responsibilities that I have not only inside the classroom,

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but then outside the classroom in regards to my own kids and the stressors that are involved with that.

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Like I also know how to better, um, you know, navigate things on my own with my own toolbox.

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I don't think every person has that. Um, um.

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You know, the more and more I expose myself to these situations,

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I think the more tools I get in my toolbox.

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Right. And one of the things that I think it was just recently,

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there was a I think it was a Columbia University study that talked about how

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when schools are removing barriers for anxiety and stress,

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we're actually doing a disservice to to kids by doing that because it doesn't

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allow them to realize that there will be stress in some way in the in,

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whether it be in school, whether it be in the workplace.

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And how, you know, schools cannot just remove every barrier and be a bulldozer for kids.

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And that's ultimately what some parents wind up being too, is I had a conversation.

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You had a little look on your face there, Dr. Lethko. You're like,

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yeah, I had a conversation with a colleague just the other day,

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and she was talking about, you know, she teaches one grade below myself.

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And she was talking about like, wow, this grade coming up in the parent emails

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and the, what can they do for extra credit? What can they do for this?

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And there's like this bulldozing effect. It's not a helicopter,

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right? It's not a helicopter parent.

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It's like they want to knock down every obstacle for their child.

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So they just have this clear path to everything.

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And sometimes like the world doesn't work that way. So-

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Yeah, I see. I agree in that I see these two polar sides.

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I see some intense overcompensation, like hands and everything really trying

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to support and help across the board.

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And I also see these really intense expectations that are above and beyond what

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others experience, what I experienced in high school, what my parents experienced, right?

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So I see both. and I think it makes it really tricky for parents to confidently

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navigate those spaces and along a similar vein I'm also seeing more and more of this like,

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us versus them mentality between parents and teachers and really what kids with

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executive functioning needs teens with executive functioning so many already

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you know even beyond that we need to be working as a team right like it's it's

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not all just at home it's not all in the classroom I don't know.

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The kid exists across all of those spaces. And so we really need to figure out

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how to be in partnership.

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And I think a teacher who has years and years of experience,

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your insights are so valuable for parents.

00:18:01.063 --> 00:18:03.863
They're just looking to figure out, how do I navigate this space?

00:18:04.003 --> 00:18:08.143
And if you build that good relationship with them, it can really get you far

00:18:08.143 --> 00:18:11.423
in terms of getting on that same team. Yeah, I agree.

00:18:12.423 --> 00:18:16.483
And so you talk about fostering confidence as much as competence.

00:18:17.063 --> 00:18:20.363
How do those two ideas work together in your approach?

00:18:21.483 --> 00:18:26.463
Yeah, I think, you know, initially when I'm starting to work with someone,

00:18:27.243 --> 00:18:32.823
helping them have hope first, because I will never work on something if I don't

00:18:32.823 --> 00:18:35.983
think that there's hope for growth, for me to progress.

00:18:36.143 --> 00:18:39.583
If I feel like I'm going to be stuck there forever, why try? Right.

00:18:40.783 --> 00:18:48.803
And as we add in a scaffolded way, more and more opportunities for a teen or

00:18:48.803 --> 00:18:52.323
an individual to be independent and to be successful.

00:18:53.003 --> 00:18:55.823
And then we make it a little bit harder. Then we make it a little bit harder.

00:18:55.963 --> 00:18:57.203
And they understand this intuitively.

00:18:57.543 --> 00:19:00.943
I'm like, great, you did this, you know, this many times this week.

00:19:01.263 --> 00:19:02.483
What's your goal for next week?

00:19:02.823 --> 00:19:06.883
Right. And they're like, oh, do I want to match or do I want to beat it? Right.

00:19:07.563 --> 00:19:11.243
That's exciting. and they start to feel like I can do this.

00:19:11.643 --> 00:19:16.743
And so they're both able to do the goal and they're building that confidence.

00:19:16.743 --> 00:19:20.903
And I would also say that self-trust because so many people,

00:19:21.003 --> 00:19:24.563
because executive functioning is inconsistent.

00:19:25.263 --> 00:19:29.623
Sometimes I'm great at it. Sometimes I'm not. And it's really hard to rely on

00:19:29.623 --> 00:19:30.843
yourself if it's inconsistent.

00:19:31.963 --> 00:19:36.943
Being able to build that self-trust is so important in addition to that skill

00:19:36.943 --> 00:19:40.403
building. And that's also one of the reasons why in my classroom,

00:19:40.543 --> 00:19:42.803
like I literally will pull up my personal calendar.

00:19:43.363 --> 00:19:47.403
Oh, I'll take out my I don't have I do have it next to me.

00:19:48.123 --> 00:19:50.203
I have like my little to do list pad.

00:19:51.173 --> 00:19:56.193
My wife gave to me to write down things that I need to accomplish and stuff

00:19:56.193 --> 00:19:59.793
that I need to do, whether it be house appointments or phone calls that I need to make.

00:20:00.113 --> 00:20:05.933
I try to show them, the stuff that I'm asking you to do, I do it myself.

00:20:07.189 --> 00:20:10.229
I have an organized calendar that's shared with my children.

00:20:10.489 --> 00:20:14.049
I say to my kids at this point, hey, you got to put your work schedule on the calendar.

00:20:14.269 --> 00:20:17.849
Like we need to know when you guys are at work from from right.

00:20:17.969 --> 00:20:21.589
Like if you guys are at home or whatever, we want to know, you know,

00:20:21.689 --> 00:20:25.369
what you guys are doing with your schedules to hold them accountable as well.

00:20:26.049 --> 00:20:28.929
My daughter has appointments. We tell her, you know, put them in the calendar,

00:20:29.189 --> 00:20:29.969
make sure that they're there.

00:20:30.009 --> 00:20:34.289
So then this way we know she made plans to go to the movies this weekend with

00:20:34.289 --> 00:20:38.909
her friends. Like just put it in there. Um, so there's certain things that we

00:20:38.909 --> 00:20:42.989
do as a family that kind of work from an executive function standpoint.

00:20:43.229 --> 00:20:49.469
Right. But the idea of confidence, uh, you know, also we need to show our students

00:20:49.469 --> 00:20:51.349
in the class that like, we are not infallible, right?

00:20:51.449 --> 00:20:54.849
Like we, we are going to make mistakes in regards to executive function.

00:20:54.949 --> 00:20:57.129
And sometimes it goes really well. And sometimes it doesn't.

00:20:57.289 --> 00:21:00.189
I like to, the word I like to use with the students that I work with all the

00:21:00.189 --> 00:21:03.629
time is ownership, right? We have to take ownership over a plan.

00:21:03.749 --> 00:21:06.469
Let's work what the plan is. Let's come up with a plan and then work it.

00:21:06.669 --> 00:21:10.949
And then if you're successful on the math test, the project,

00:21:11.289 --> 00:21:13.949
the whatever it is you're trying to accomplish, the goal that you're trying

00:21:13.949 --> 00:21:18.469
to accomplish, then the next time that comes around, we do the same thing because

00:21:18.469 --> 00:21:20.149
we already have a plan that's in place.

00:21:20.149 --> 00:21:25.309
But if that didn't work, we at least know why and we analyze and we try something

00:21:25.309 --> 00:21:26.069
different the next time.

00:21:26.949 --> 00:21:30.449
So that I mean, that's at least how I try to approach it with the students I

00:21:30.449 --> 00:21:31.849
work with and the kids in my classroom.

00:21:31.849 --> 00:21:41.109
I think the confidence part is missing a lot with feeling successful and noticing the successes,

00:21:41.609 --> 00:21:45.649
hearing that their successes are being celebrated, appreciated,

00:21:45.889 --> 00:21:49.269
noticed by the teachers, the parents, the whole team involved,

00:21:49.269 --> 00:21:52.869
especially with, you know, middle school, high school age children,

00:21:52.869 --> 00:21:57.629
knowing that they can feel that success and what that, you know,

00:21:57.709 --> 00:21:59.549
feels like and then bringing it to the next.

00:21:59.549 --> 00:22:03.189
Especially, you know, for so many of them that have struggled for such a long

00:22:03.189 --> 00:22:07.889
time and sort of feel like, well, this is just who I am.

00:22:08.890 --> 00:22:12.130
There's nothing I can do about it, you know. And so finding that confidence

00:22:12.130 --> 00:22:15.950
in the successes and celebrating them, I think it's just, it's major.

00:22:16.170 --> 00:22:17.250
It's major, major, major.

00:22:17.850 --> 00:22:23.830
I have a lot of friends who have issues, adults, with get up and go.

00:22:24.410 --> 00:22:30.090
So they know what they have to do, but they put it off and put it off and put it off.

00:22:30.170 --> 00:22:33.870
And you have some pretty interesting, some cool stuff to say about that.

00:22:33.990 --> 00:22:39.070
So how do we get motivated? You know, we know what we have to do.

00:22:39.190 --> 00:22:44.710
Maybe making the list is not the issue, but tackling it is what comes up.

00:22:44.890 --> 00:22:51.070
So, yeah, there are probably a million different ways I could talk about getting started.

00:22:51.430 --> 00:22:59.650
It's something that I talk about often because it happens with all of us in some way, shape or form.

00:23:01.190 --> 00:23:05.430
One fun tool that I've been using with a lot of folks is a dopamine menu.

00:23:05.430 --> 00:23:09.070
And this is just like a menu of things that you could do to help kind of get

00:23:09.070 --> 00:23:14.010
your momentum going, but also regulate that feel-good chemical that also acts

00:23:14.010 --> 00:23:15.390
as a get-started chemical.

00:23:16.230 --> 00:23:22.190
I think some other things that I think about are, you know, with motivation,

00:23:22.190 --> 00:23:26.630
if we're waiting to feel motivated, you're going to be waiting for a long time.

00:23:28.730 --> 00:23:33.630
I wouldn't assume that motivation is going to come, but I will say that momentum is,

00:23:34.511 --> 00:23:40.511
will bring you to motivation. I feel more motivated when I'm already moving, right?

00:23:40.711 --> 00:23:45.711
So this is like the ADHD hack where people keep their shoes on or get dressed

00:23:45.711 --> 00:23:47.991
for the day and then they feel like they're doing more things,

00:23:48.431 --> 00:23:49.871
right? They're more willing to get outside.

00:23:50.851 --> 00:23:55.211
Body doubling is becoming more and more prevalent. Working with other people

00:23:55.211 --> 00:23:57.551
who are working helps you get things done.

00:23:57.691 --> 00:24:00.711
Is that what body doubling is? That's what body doubling is. Okay.

00:24:01.051 --> 00:24:04.611
Got it. Yeah. Okay. This is the new term. I just want to make,

00:24:04.731 --> 00:24:06.071
if I could just make two of myself.

00:24:06.371 --> 00:24:09.551
I mean, I mean, first of all, what would the world do? I mean,

00:24:09.711 --> 00:24:13.971
you know, and say, why are you nodding your head? No, I'm saying, uh-uh.

00:24:14.571 --> 00:24:19.391
We only need one, and there is only one, Mr. Oh, I don't know if that's,

00:24:19.411 --> 00:24:20.831
I don't know if that's sweet or concerning.

00:24:21.691 --> 00:24:27.911
Can you say more about body doubling? Yeah, yeah. She shut me up real quick.

00:24:30.331 --> 00:24:33.691
Body dabbling is this idea that when we

00:24:33.691 --> 00:24:36.731
are working around other people who are working it

00:24:36.731 --> 00:24:39.891
helps us stay focused so we take these visual

00:24:39.891 --> 00:24:42.571
cues and our brain say oh i guess

00:24:42.571 --> 00:24:45.211
that's what's happening in these in the environment right like that's that's what

00:24:45.211 --> 00:24:48.231
we're supposed to be doing and so people find that there's

00:24:48.231 --> 00:24:51.471
so much less friction to getting started when they're working alongside

00:24:51.471 --> 00:24:54.171
other people um a lot of people in

00:24:54.171 --> 00:24:57.311
my office myself included we will do

00:24:57.311 --> 00:25:00.371
body doubling sessions where everybody's working for 30 minutes

00:25:00.371 --> 00:25:03.611
uh we'll have our videos on muted and

00:25:03.611 --> 00:25:07.131
we'll all work and then at the 30 minute break everybody will stretch for five

00:25:07.131 --> 00:25:12.111
minutes move around and then we'll do another 30 minutes um there are actually

00:25:12.111 --> 00:25:16.031
subscriptions now where you can subscribe to body doubling and you can log on

00:25:16.031 --> 00:25:20.431
24 hours a day and work with other people who are there and kind of write your

00:25:20.431 --> 00:25:23.171
goals in the chat so that everyone knows what you're working on,

00:25:23.771 --> 00:25:28.831
this is really helpful and it doesn't have to be work work it might be I need

00:25:28.831 --> 00:25:31.631
to clean out my closet or I've been avoiding doing this.

00:25:32.882 --> 00:25:36.382
Whatever task, and people will just do it alongside other people.

00:25:36.422 --> 00:25:37.822
And it's really, really helpful.

00:25:38.082 --> 00:25:41.102
I saw something today. I want to mention this.

00:25:41.302 --> 00:25:46.982
And she's on social media all the time. And I can't, Ms. Dugan. Ms. Dugan is her name.

00:25:48.022 --> 00:25:54.262
And she talked about Merv's Study Corner, okay, which is a series of videos

00:25:54.262 --> 00:25:58.162
where it just basically says six hours of study time with me.

00:25:58.402 --> 00:26:02.062
There's background noise. There's like rain. It's this person studying in different

00:26:02.062 --> 00:26:05.542
environments they got papers all over their desk they have computers but it

00:26:05.542 --> 00:26:07.162
like so if you don't have someone.

00:26:07.862 --> 00:26:10.662
There's a reason like you don't have to watch the whole six hours but you could put this

00:26:10.662 --> 00:26:13.342
video on in the background it's got like ambient noise it's got

00:26:13.342 --> 00:26:18.222
like you know the ocean or uh like different settings that you can go to it

00:26:18.222 --> 00:26:21.162
was very interesting i looked at it i was like i think i'm gonna put one of

00:26:21.162 --> 00:26:27.282
those on the next time my students are working independently and see like what

00:26:27.282 --> 00:26:30.262
happens because i've been trying i have been playing like sometimes they want

00:26:30.262 --> 00:26:33.042
to listen to music, but some days I'm like, okay, we're not going to listen to music today.

00:26:33.322 --> 00:26:36.122
I'm going to put the bluey study music on. And some of them are like, ugh.

00:26:36.302 --> 00:26:41.762
And it's just like bluey on a swing or like reading or like coloring in a book

00:26:41.762 --> 00:26:47.222
with like rain and like ambient lo-fi jazz in the background. And like that works.

00:26:47.722 --> 00:26:51.082
It works for them. They're quiet. They're not quiet because like they're listening

00:26:51.082 --> 00:26:54.382
to the music, but like they don't seem to understand that it's a hack for their

00:26:54.382 --> 00:26:55.702
brain. It calms them down.

00:26:56.162 --> 00:26:59.442
Right. It keeps them focused, like ambient jazz,

00:26:59.642 --> 00:27:03.402
classical music those are all brain hacks to like help you remember uh

00:27:03.402 --> 00:27:06.582
you know information if you're struggling it just helps then like

00:27:06.582 --> 00:27:09.302
listening to a video or like you know whatever whatever it is

00:27:09.302 --> 00:27:12.142
they're going to be looking at but like it's funny that you say about the body doubling

00:27:12.142 --> 00:27:17.062
so like if you didn't have someone there's a i mean there are so many videos

00:27:17.062 --> 00:27:21.962
that are out there she's with with rain with sunlight in the dark in the snow

00:27:21.962 --> 00:27:26.342
there's hours and hours and hours and hours of videos that you could have in

00:27:26.342 --> 00:27:29.082
a different setting for you to have somebody to body double with when And there

00:27:29.082 --> 00:27:31.602
is no one to body double with. I thought that was cool.

00:27:33.126 --> 00:27:36.726
I literally just saw it today. That's perfect.

00:27:36.946 --> 00:27:41.126
Yeah, I think body doubling is becoming more and more commonplace and people

00:27:41.126 --> 00:27:42.566
are using it as a great tool.

00:27:42.766 --> 00:27:46.806
I mean, when you go to a coffee shop, often that's a form of body doubling.

00:27:46.966 --> 00:27:48.006
You're sitting there on your laptop.

00:27:48.206 --> 00:27:52.226
Everybody else is working on their things. I have students that I work with

00:27:52.226 --> 00:27:56.666
who they will go to a coffee shop to do homework because that's the only way it will get done.

00:27:56.666 --> 00:28:03.886
And so, like, don't underestimate the environment and that impact on your motivation and momentum.

00:28:04.906 --> 00:28:07.906
I think of another thing that you can think about is, like, your mood.

00:28:09.006 --> 00:28:13.506
Right? If I'm grumpy, it's really hard to start some things I don't want to do.

00:28:14.826 --> 00:28:18.806
But if I'm in a good mood, if I elevate that mood, if I'm laughing at something,

00:28:18.806 --> 00:28:22.786
if I'm kind of feeling good, it's a lot easier to get started.

00:28:23.206 --> 00:28:26.106
And along a similar vein, it's easier to get started on things that are easy.

00:28:26.106 --> 00:28:29.246
So can I get some momentum with some quick, easy wins?

00:28:29.886 --> 00:28:34.706
So I think all of these things are great tools for getting started.

00:28:35.066 --> 00:28:39.886
And once you get started, that's a huge part. That's a huge part of,

00:28:39.886 --> 00:28:41.446
of getting your goals accomplished.

00:28:42.106 --> 00:28:44.986
Yeah. I think Jamie often says like, you may have a mountain in front of you,

00:28:45.066 --> 00:28:45.806
but just start climbing.

00:28:48.906 --> 00:28:53.986
I do. I use that a lot with my, um, my slow to start. I'm not slow to start.

00:28:54.206 --> 00:28:55.946
I'm more of like, I want to get it done.

00:28:56.186 --> 00:28:59.386
Tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick. So that, that part of,

00:28:59.526 --> 00:29:06.066
that's why I'm so interested in how do you click to getting people who are slower

00:29:06.066 --> 00:29:08.686
to start to really getting, getting into it.

00:29:08.846 --> 00:29:12.526
Um, and my family all like runs, um, like last week, I'm like,

00:29:12.626 --> 00:29:15.426
we should clean a little, like get into the closets.

00:29:15.426 --> 00:29:20.006
And they were like, oh no, it's happening. like she's she's

00:29:20.006 --> 00:29:22.986
she's it's run away you know because I am like I

00:29:22.986 --> 00:29:26.046
love it it really it so it's not the

00:29:26.046 --> 00:29:28.986
starting for me but the getting them to start so I

00:29:28.986 --> 00:29:32.266
use that a lot my son is very much like my husband in that way and they think

00:29:32.266 --> 00:29:35.306
like I can't even start because it'll take forever and I'll never finish and

00:29:35.306 --> 00:29:39.406
what's I can't do it you know they lead with like I can't do it and I'm like

00:29:39.406 --> 00:29:42.346
yes you can of course you can just start so I always just say just start climbing

00:29:42.346 --> 00:29:45.126
so like don't think about how high up it is just start climbing just take a

00:29:45.126 --> 00:29:48.006
step and then you know you'll realize you get to a point and you just,

00:29:48.026 --> 00:29:50.386
you know, kind of keep going. I guess that's like a momentum.

00:29:51.306 --> 00:29:55.086
You know, I mean, and I do try to make space for like the, we call it the I

00:29:55.086 --> 00:29:56.546
can't want to's in our house.

00:29:57.446 --> 00:30:01.166
That was like when they were little, they would be like, I can't want to do it. I can't want to.

00:30:01.306 --> 00:30:03.766
So, you know, of course you have space where you can't want to,

00:30:03.906 --> 00:30:07.346
and that's fine also because sometimes everybody feels that way.

00:30:07.886 --> 00:30:12.806
But I, you know, I have a student that I'm thinking of in particular who has

00:30:12.806 --> 00:30:16.246
a lot of difficulty just with supplies.

00:30:18.046 --> 00:30:22.946
So do you have any, anything, you know, they show up to us, they all have lockers.

00:30:23.146 --> 00:30:28.206
My classroom happens to be very far from the lockers. So if they come all the

00:30:28.206 --> 00:30:32.126
way to me and they don't have what they need, I can't send them back.

00:30:32.346 --> 00:30:35.266
It's really very far. The other teachers don't like that, you know,

00:30:35.326 --> 00:30:36.846
so there's no kind of sneak to your locker.

00:30:37.186 --> 00:30:40.646
So what would you say for someone, you know, who has, you know,

00:30:40.746 --> 00:30:46.226
maybe an ADHD kid who shows up and every single day and the parents I know have

00:30:46.226 --> 00:30:52.046
bought five or six pencil cases and notebooks and, and they still show up without anything.

00:30:53.335 --> 00:30:59.735
Absolutely. So one accommodation that's really common was having two copies,

00:30:59.935 --> 00:31:03.615
a home copy and an in-classroom copy of books, textbooks.

00:31:03.995 --> 00:31:08.335
I think now the adjustment is, can everything be digital?

00:31:08.955 --> 00:31:11.975
And can that student just have one device that they always have?

00:31:11.975 --> 00:31:17.315
And if they're leaving somewhere, getting into them into this habit of a 360

00:31:17.315 --> 00:31:21.915
spin where you just stand up and you slowly turn around and scan the environment

00:31:21.915 --> 00:31:24.195
to catch anything that you've left behind.

00:31:26.435 --> 00:31:29.895
Okay yeah that'd be a good start i saw another uh

00:31:29.895 --> 00:31:33.335
teacher that we're having on about um in in

00:31:33.335 --> 00:31:37.395
2026 she's going to be you know we're going to be talking about this topic again

00:31:37.395 --> 00:31:40.615
and she talked about anchor charts like and she teaches younger kids and it's

00:31:40.615 --> 00:31:43.295
like okay you know you have the chart up on the board like okay we're going

00:31:43.295 --> 00:31:47.055
to do math now and then when they do math they need their whiteboard they need

00:31:47.055 --> 00:31:50.315
their dry erase marker they need their calculator and they need their book.

00:31:50.895 --> 00:31:54.795
And it's okay. Now that we have all those things, look around at your table,

00:31:54.835 --> 00:31:58.515
see if somebody doesn't have those things, count them up. Does everybody have four things?

00:31:59.095 --> 00:32:00.715
Then they start holding each other accountable.

00:32:02.131 --> 00:32:06.771
And it allows the students to also, once again, take a little bit of ownership

00:32:06.771 --> 00:32:08.631
over these are the things I have to take out.

00:32:08.711 --> 00:32:11.351
Now, it's a little different than Jamie, you know, with the kids, with the lockers.

00:32:11.491 --> 00:32:16.531
But our bosses went as far as to, like, take lockers away from certain kids.

00:32:16.651 --> 00:32:19.871
Like, look, if you're not going to come organized or you're going to be a mess,

00:32:20.031 --> 00:32:22.471
you don't get a locker. You just carry everything around all day.

00:32:22.991 --> 00:32:26.851
I like to call that stone of shame, right? Because I don't know if it's a Simpsons

00:32:26.851 --> 00:32:29.111
reference where, like, you just carry around the big stone of shame.

00:32:29.111 --> 00:32:32.211
Like, yeah, you're going to carry all your stuff around because we're not listening

00:32:32.211 --> 00:32:39.791
to or choosing to do the things that, you know, are expected of us in the classroom.

00:32:40.331 --> 00:32:44.131
I don't necessarily know how effective that is, but it works for some kids.

00:32:44.431 --> 00:32:50.711
Well, I think I think there are students who really I wouldn't expect them to remember.

00:32:51.331 --> 00:32:55.131
Either we set up some sort of behavioral chaining where

00:32:55.131 --> 00:32:58.011
they have a routine and a reminder to go

00:32:58.011 --> 00:33:00.831
to their locker before right or we're at

00:33:00.831 --> 00:33:04.651
we're at adjusting for time that it takes to go there right like can we build

00:33:04.651 --> 00:33:08.751
that in externally or we just change the system i don't expect you to go to

00:33:08.751 --> 00:33:11.991
your locker because you're never going to go there right so now we just have

00:33:11.991 --> 00:33:15.631
a chromebook and all your textbooks and everything you need is there you don't

00:33:15.631 --> 00:33:18.311
have pencil cases anymore because we type everything anyways, right?

00:33:18.511 --> 00:33:24.231
Like, can we intensely simplify and then go from there?

00:33:24.371 --> 00:33:27.451
Maybe they do need some things and we just support them in checking,

00:33:27.451 --> 00:33:32.531
but do we need all of those materials in that format?

00:33:33.311 --> 00:33:38.431
We, I, now kids in our building, uh, especially the sixth and seventh graders

00:33:38.431 --> 00:33:41.511
only go to their lockers at specified times, but I think the eighth graders

00:33:41.511 --> 00:33:42.691
can go whenever they want.

00:33:43.111 --> 00:33:46.371
Um, but even in the beginning of the year, like last, the last few years,

00:33:46.531 --> 00:33:49.011
like kids have been able to go whenever they wanted. Like I would sit down with

00:33:49.011 --> 00:33:50.271
the seventh graders and say like, okay.

00:33:51.535 --> 00:33:57.235
You can't go to your locker after every period. It's just, it's impossible. There's too many kids.

00:33:57.455 --> 00:34:01.195
Our building is packed. I was like, let's take a look at your schedule to be

00:34:01.195 --> 00:34:03.915
like, okay, you have me and I'm in the weird part of the building.

00:34:04.175 --> 00:34:07.095
That's like away from other classrooms. I'm like, okay. But then right after

00:34:07.095 --> 00:34:11.855
my class, you have like theater arts, which is right next door in the cafeteria.

00:34:11.955 --> 00:34:14.995
So like, you're going to go from my class all the way back up the hallway to

00:34:14.995 --> 00:34:17.415
go to your locker, to put stuff away, to go all the way back down.

00:34:17.515 --> 00:34:20.995
Like, look at your schedule, be like, okay, so you don't need to bring anything

00:34:20.995 --> 00:34:23.775
for theater arts. So just carry your history notebook with you.

00:34:24.435 --> 00:34:27.915
And then like, it's, but sometimes they just need that.

00:34:28.595 --> 00:34:32.295
Oh yeah, I should do that. That would make sense. Like, and so then they don't

00:34:32.295 --> 00:34:35.515
have the stress of like, I'm going to be late. I'm going to get marked and detention in the morning.

00:34:35.775 --> 00:34:38.055
And some kids freak out about that. Some kids don't care.

00:34:38.595 --> 00:34:43.095
Um, but there's like, sometimes we just need to take a moment to be like,

00:34:43.215 --> 00:34:45.475
okay, let's analyze and look at what that schedule looks like.

00:34:45.555 --> 00:34:47.995
Cause they're not doing that on their own. Yeah. Yeah.

00:34:48.835 --> 00:34:55.875
So what do you think are some really practical tools that make the biggest differences for kids at home?

00:34:57.295 --> 00:35:00.495
We've talked a lot about school. So what about some things at home?

00:35:02.536 --> 00:35:05.896
Well, I think at home, if we're talking about kids, often we're talking about

00:35:05.896 --> 00:35:07.356
like the homework fight.

00:35:09.416 --> 00:35:13.496
And so I think going back to that dopamine menu, I think that's a great one

00:35:13.496 --> 00:35:16.316
you can do as a family. Like everybody has their own dopamine menu.

00:35:16.476 --> 00:35:19.256
Are you familiar with this? No. Can you give an example?

00:35:19.436 --> 00:35:21.716
I was, but go right ahead. Yes.

00:35:23.196 --> 00:35:27.296
So if you think about the menu at a restaurant, you have appetizers,

00:35:27.296 --> 00:35:30.816
you have main dishes, side dishes, and desserts.

00:35:31.336 --> 00:35:36.756
Fair. And so what the dopamine menu is, is it's a series of activities or things

00:35:36.756 --> 00:35:40.516
that you can do to feel good,

00:35:40.656 --> 00:35:46.656
to regulate your dopamine throughout the day, that often are paired with whatever

00:35:46.656 --> 00:35:48.536
the activity that you're doing outside of that.

00:35:48.696 --> 00:35:52.596
So an appetizer is something that's quick, like an appetizer,

00:35:52.776 --> 00:35:56.156
that will kind of get the juices flowing, help you feel good.

00:35:56.156 --> 00:36:00.016
It's a quick break so that you can go into maybe a larger activity.

00:36:00.996 --> 00:36:05.096
A side is something that you would do alongside I'm sorry, what would that be?

00:36:06.110 --> 00:36:10.290
So an example of an appetizer could be like, go for a quick walk outside.

00:36:10.490 --> 00:36:11.790
That's one that I like. Right.

00:36:12.970 --> 00:36:20.510
It could be listen to listen to a pump up song or watch a funny YouTube video. Right.

00:36:21.730 --> 00:36:26.110
Could be go find your pet and play fetch for a little.

00:36:26.250 --> 00:36:31.210
So, Jamie, your pump up song would be the this song from Saved by the Bell where

00:36:31.210 --> 00:36:33.870
they work out, they get down, make a sweat. Of course.

00:36:34.010 --> 00:36:38.150
That would be your pump up song. I went to it, go for it. Get down and break a sweat. Yeah.

00:36:38.610 --> 00:36:42.750
Hopefully the doctor is familiar with the reference. What's your pump up song,

00:36:42.910 --> 00:36:45.250
doctor? What would you be listening to? Oh my goodness.

00:36:45.630 --> 00:36:49.250
I'm big into Florence and the Machine. Oh, very nice. Yeah. Okay.

00:36:49.750 --> 00:36:53.530
That's a favorite of mine. Something 90s grunge related because I'm an old person.

00:36:53.670 --> 00:36:54.910
That's what I would listen to. Anyway.

00:36:55.650 --> 00:36:58.770
So those are appetizers. What would your main course be?

00:36:59.050 --> 00:37:03.050
Yeah. So a main course is usually happens after you've been working.

00:37:03.050 --> 00:37:08.010
And this is like a longer 20 to 30 minute break something that's really going

00:37:08.010 --> 00:37:13.050
to rejuvenate you that takes a little bit more time um one of my favorites in

00:37:13.050 --> 00:37:14.530
the dopamine menu is sides,

00:37:15.070 --> 00:37:17.870
and this was what i was thinking about when you were talking about

00:37:17.870 --> 00:37:21.970
your you know just get started hiking the mountain sometimes we

00:37:21.970 --> 00:37:27.450
don't want to do the activity but we can tempt ourselves by doing this temptation

00:37:27.450 --> 00:37:31.970
bundling that's what it's called in the research and it's like doing a pleasurable

00:37:31.970 --> 00:37:38.870
activity at the same time as the activity we don't want to do right so this is like for a while,

00:37:39.530 --> 00:37:43.110
i had to get in i was trying to be on the treadmill for a certain number of

00:37:43.110 --> 00:37:47.910
miles every day and i was only allowed to watch this specific tv show when i

00:37:47.910 --> 00:37:52.590
was on the treadmill and i was very very interested in this tv show all right

00:37:52.590 --> 00:37:55.270
well i mean you can't do that to us now what was it.

00:37:56.590 --> 00:38:00.950
I was watching bridgerton at the time okay bridgerton yes i was i was gonna

00:38:00.950 --> 00:38:06.230
go like love island or one of those shows um doc your screen just blurred out

00:38:06.230 --> 00:38:09.670
for a second there just see if we can get it back oh no problem,

00:38:10.747 --> 00:38:14.647
refocus the camera there you go no problem so um

00:38:14.647 --> 00:38:17.407
whatever that may or a good podcast right so

00:38:17.407 --> 00:38:20.287
this is something like i wasn't allowed to watch bridgerton unless

00:38:20.287 --> 00:38:23.747
i was on a treadmill and so then i

00:38:23.747 --> 00:38:27.147
had a lot more motivation to be on the treadmill right so i kind of tricked

00:38:27.147 --> 00:38:31.747
my brain into here's the dangling the carrot here's the dopamine alongside this

00:38:31.747 --> 00:38:36.487
activity that i otherwise maybe wouldn't like right and then a dessert is something

00:38:36.487 --> 00:38:42.527
that gives us that nice dopamine fix but is best in small quantities, right?

00:38:42.667 --> 00:38:46.067
So if you only had dessert all day, you'd kind of feel gross.

00:38:46.067 --> 00:38:49.347
But if you have a little bit of dessert, you feel great. So like for me, that's scrolling.

00:38:49.587 --> 00:38:51.707
If I do a little bit of it here and there, that's great.

00:38:52.007 --> 00:38:55.327
But if I did that for six hours, I'd probably feel sick, right?

00:38:56.807 --> 00:39:00.147
So there's some really good online things about dopamine menus,

00:39:00.307 --> 00:39:04.247
but it's a great way to just regulate throughout the day and kind of give yourself

00:39:04.247 --> 00:39:07.907
some feel-good things that are maybe more balanced.

00:39:10.693 --> 00:39:17.093
I like that. I think I do have a sample, too, Jane, that I could get to you.

00:39:17.193 --> 00:39:22.413
I think from one of the coaches for the company that I work for,

00:39:22.473 --> 00:39:24.473
I think they put one together. I think I can get that to you.

00:39:26.393 --> 00:39:29.293
It's also something good that I've been, for a while, be like,

00:39:29.333 --> 00:39:31.813
I should do this with my students. And I never have, but I really should.

00:39:31.933 --> 00:39:36.173
So then this way, they could see, like, oh, here's the things that I can do, even on a small scale.

00:39:37.113 --> 00:39:39.813
But I often talk to them about, like, okay, you have to study for something.

00:39:39.813 --> 00:39:41.133
We talk about what that looks like.

00:39:41.473 --> 00:39:44.653
You know, you do it in short spurts. You start a little bit earlier because

00:39:44.653 --> 00:39:47.073
it's better for, you know, recurring information.

00:39:47.453 --> 00:39:54.033
Also scheduling breaks. If you, if you get frustrated, stop, get up, walk away.

00:39:54.213 --> 00:39:56.153
Don't just sit in the chair and scroll on your phone. Like go,

00:39:56.273 --> 00:40:01.513
go outside and scream at the sky or play with your dog or get a drink of water.

00:40:01.633 --> 00:40:04.873
Do something that physically changes where you are to reset your brain.

00:40:05.453 --> 00:40:09.913
Um, those are all good little strategies that can help in, in,

00:40:10.273 --> 00:40:13.593
you know, as students are continuing to learn what tools to put in their toolbox.

00:40:17.012 --> 00:40:21.992
I love it. I mean, this was an amazing session with our doctor.

00:40:23.412 --> 00:40:28.412
Yeah. You almost fixed everything. Bridgerton, I mean, that was a big show.

00:40:28.572 --> 00:40:31.612
Is that still on? Is Bridgerton still on?

00:40:32.472 --> 00:40:35.972
No? It is not. I remember watching the first season.

00:40:36.312 --> 00:40:39.972
So, you know, I think my wife had it on in the background.

00:40:40.152 --> 00:40:43.672
It's had a couple of spinoffs and things like that. I think so,

00:40:43.792 --> 00:40:46.232
right? Yeah, absolutely. Somewhat. Yeah.

00:40:47.452 --> 00:40:52.252
But yeah, we, you know, Doc, we really appreciate you taking the time to join

00:40:52.252 --> 00:40:57.312
us for this session today and for our chat.

00:40:58.352 --> 00:41:00.992
One last thing I'd like to ask, I'd like to ask you, though,

00:41:01.152 --> 00:41:04.252
like we we both have children that are going to be starting college next year.

00:41:04.252 --> 00:41:05.212
They're going to be on their own.

00:41:05.372 --> 00:41:07.432
And sometimes, you know, we're doing the knock on the door, like,

00:41:07.932 --> 00:41:10.532
hey, did you get that assignment done? Or did you email that teacher?

00:41:11.312 --> 00:41:15.492
Like, what strategies would you have for those kids that are going to be, you know,

00:41:15.712 --> 00:41:19.552
college freshmen out there in the quasi real world next year,

00:41:19.552 --> 00:41:24.792
if they find themselves on their own starting to struggle with like motivation

00:41:24.792 --> 00:41:26.972
and the ability to get their tasks completed?

00:41:26.972 --> 00:41:29.952
Yeah so first my

00:41:29.952 --> 00:41:32.692
question is you know are they what is

00:41:32.692 --> 00:41:35.892
their system for keeping track of tasks do they

00:41:35.892 --> 00:41:38.592
have a system for that some people like a

00:41:38.592 --> 00:41:41.572
physical planner great some people

00:41:41.572 --> 00:41:44.232
like digital things like calendars or a note

00:41:44.232 --> 00:41:47.292
on their phone whatever it is commit to one and always

00:41:47.292 --> 00:41:50.712
put it in the same place that's that's number one because

00:41:50.712 --> 00:41:53.572
nothing we hate more than 50 sticky notes

00:41:53.572 --> 00:41:58.672
and a note on your phone and a half used calendar and you know all of that right

00:41:58.672 --> 00:42:04.672
so commit to a place and it's okay if it changes later but start somewhere and

00:42:04.672 --> 00:42:10.452
then figure out the environments and the times of day that are most optimal

00:42:10.452 --> 00:42:13.072
for your attention energy motivation.

00:42:14.609 --> 00:42:17.929
Okay. And those might be different depending on the subject, right?

00:42:17.969 --> 00:42:21.729
Like I'm really motivated to work on music late in the day, but if you have

00:42:21.729 --> 00:42:24.889
me doing math at 8 p.m., pass, right?

00:42:24.989 --> 00:42:27.909
Like we're not getting very far. Or math ever.

00:42:30.269 --> 00:42:35.509
So understanding where those natural peaks, but I also have a lot of folks who are night owls.

00:42:35.789 --> 00:42:39.549
And so asking them to do studying early in the morning just isn't optimal for them.

00:42:39.809 --> 00:42:45.529
So leaning into when are those natural cycles and then putting those times,

00:42:45.829 --> 00:42:48.569
your highest work times at your highest peaks of energy, attention,

00:42:48.729 --> 00:42:52.469
motivation, and then also considering the environments, right?

00:42:52.509 --> 00:42:56.469
Your environment is physically where you are, but also how many distractions are happening.

00:42:56.649 --> 00:42:59.389
What's pulling you away from that high focus time? Yeah.

00:42:59.589 --> 00:43:02.089
I think all of those things are a good place to start.

00:43:02.329 --> 00:43:05.149
And that's where I think the body doubling thing comes in is important.

00:43:05.389 --> 00:43:06.649
Like go to the library and study.

00:43:07.009 --> 00:43:09.649
Find the coffee shop on campus, which they all have, right?

00:43:10.009 --> 00:43:13.309
Go to a place where you see other people working. That's not just,

00:43:13.409 --> 00:43:17.229
you know, because sometimes the dorm room can be a challenging place to work.

00:43:17.409 --> 00:43:19.909
You know, your roommate doesn't have anything to do, so they're binge watching

00:43:19.909 --> 00:43:22.109
whatever, or there's other people running around in the halls.

00:43:22.289 --> 00:43:24.629
Like, it's not necessarily the best environment.

00:43:24.889 --> 00:43:28.889
It's like what we used to say to, you know, to students on remote learning.

00:43:29.069 --> 00:43:30.949
Like, I was a big stickler and like, get out of your bed.

00:43:31.209 --> 00:43:36.529
Do not be in class, in your bed, in your pajamas, get up, get dressed,

00:43:36.969 --> 00:43:39.049
sit at the table, sit at the desk, sit in a chair,

00:43:39.509 --> 00:43:43.209
like be ready instead of laying in your bed, because then we're equating with

00:43:43.209 --> 00:43:46.449
where we're sleeping with where we're working. And that's not a good mindset to be in.

00:43:47.849 --> 00:43:50.409
Those are just little things that I talk about anyway. So.

00:43:51.320 --> 00:43:54.720
Those are great. Those are great. For sure. Yeah.

00:43:55.260 --> 00:43:58.120
So we're going to pass that information along to our children.

00:43:58.300 --> 00:44:00.160
They probably won't listen to it because we don't know anything.

00:44:00.380 --> 00:44:02.500
But we'll say, well, Dr. Lethko told us.

00:44:02.800 --> 00:44:05.640
We're going to play them the clip. We're going to play them the clip and be

00:44:05.640 --> 00:44:07.260
like, hey, listen to this. That's right.

00:44:07.520 --> 00:44:10.520
Yes. And my daughter will turn it off because she doesn't like seeing me.

00:44:10.620 --> 00:44:12.320
She only likes hearing Miss Wonka. So.

00:44:15.680 --> 00:44:19.100
Well, Dr. Lethko, we appreciate you for joining us today.

00:44:19.500 --> 00:44:22.980
I appreciate you very much, doctor. Appreciate you, Jamie. Appreciate you, too.

00:44:23.260 --> 00:44:28.820
And just as a reminder to all of our wonderful listeners, we are going on a

00:44:28.820 --> 00:44:32.340
bit of a winter break. Yes, that is correct.

00:44:32.660 --> 00:44:36.840
And we will be back, and better than ever, in January of 2026.

00:44:37.320 --> 00:44:41.840
And just as an additional note.

00:44:42.660 --> 00:44:47.120
Do you have breaking news? Season 3 is brought to you by our presenting sponsor,

00:44:47.380 --> 00:44:48.560
Teacher's Insurance Plan.

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Check out their website for more information and to get a quote,

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00:45:01.800 --> 00:45:07.160
Yes. Doctor, thank you very much for joining us today. And your knowledge and

00:45:07.160 --> 00:45:08.620
things you talked about were very

00:45:08.620 --> 00:45:11.040
insightful for us and hopefully for our listeners too. So thanks a lot.

00:45:11.560 --> 00:45:15.200
Absolutely. And Happy New Year and all the things. Yes.