38: Early relationships and sex: the issues and rules to talk through with your teen.

Rachel Richards: 0:03

Hello, I'm Rachel Richards, and welcome to Teenagers Untangled, the audio hug. Where we use research by experts and our own experience to discuss everything and anything to do with parenting teenagers.

Susie Asli: 0:15

Hi, I'm Susie Asli, mindfulness coach, mindful therapist and musician, and mother of three teenagers, two of them are twins.

Rachel Richards: 0:22

As a parenting coach and mother of two teenagers. I've seen the transformative power of getting people together to share ideas and support each other. So here we are. Welcome, pull up a chair. And let's begin. Now an anonymous listener has asked us to discuss under age sex. It's taken me weeks of research and pondering on the topic because well, I ended up down a gender rabbit hole. And it just feels like a big responsibility to get this right. Because I think there's a grey area that a lot of parents don't like to talk about. But it's there. Absolutely. Right. So we'll talk about that in a minute. But first, let's talk about what we've learned. In the few weeks while we've been away doing our Easter things go on Susie you can start.

Susie Asli: 1:06

Well, my nugget is a sort of a classic, I guess, mindfulness thing is one of the things I teach, and it just played out in my own life as the often does. So I thought I'd share that my daughter was having quite a short fuse, sometimes if she gets triggered, as most of us do, to be honest. I didn't agree to something that she wants to do, which she found very annoying, and she immediately went out of her what I would call her window of tolerance, which means she went into her red zone, she got triggered, she was dysregulated and wanted to carry on the conversation and I said which I know is annoying, because I've had it the other way around, you know. Let's wait and talk about this, because there's not much point in having a conversation about it right now, which is really annoying. And I didn't quite word it like that. But she didn't like that. And I said, maybe in like, I don't know, 15 minutes, I'll also explain why I didn't want to have the conversation right now. And I just stayed really calm and explained that so she didn't really have a choice. So then she came back down in 10- 15 minutes. And I explained to her, you know, your brain has gone into fight flight freeze. So you are in survival mode, you are totally dysregulated when that happens. So we can't have a conversation then because it will often end in an argument or it's really unproductive because you can't think rationally you're in you're in a different state. So it's much better to calm your systems, and then we can respond properly, we can have a rational conversation. And we did and we solved it, it really wasn't a big deal. And she was just, it was still really annoying. She didn't want to admit that that was quite a good idea.

Rachel Richards: 2:54

Tha'ts a great thing to do, because actually explaining it clearly like that can give them the information that they can use to then talk to themselves about it, and in the future and to their friends. Yeah, hopefully that's stuff that goes in and then comes out later on.

Susie Asli: 3:09

it was literally 10 minutes, you didn't do anything particular. You could say, let's do some regulation, techniques breathing, which are really helpful. But I don't think she did. But it's still the time passed. And she was regulated.

Rachel Richards: 3:21

Fantastic. Well, my nugget was that we had a big family gathering, which involved many generations, We've got quite a complex family because there are divorces, and it's a blended family. And as the evening wore on, the wheels started coming off. Because people had been drinking and they become more honest. And they'd become more definite about what they think. And I found myself putting out fires all over the place with different people in different rooms talking to them. And I found out something that really hadn't occurred to me much before, but that really solidified my thinking, which is that the big problem that every single person had, in terms of their relationship with their parent was that they just wanted to feel heard, loved and supported. And that was it. They just wanted their parents to recognize them. Because every time I said so what do you want? That was what came up. So I took from that a big wow moment when I thought really, as parents, that's the most important thing. Whatever you do whatever else happens, we need to let our teenagers know that we're there. We're listening. We recognize how they feel, and we're there to support them.

Susie Asli: 4:33

Absolutely. That's so beautiful. Yeah, we all as human beings we want to be, it never goes away seen and accepted aswe are.

Rachel Richards: 4:40

It doesn't matter how old you are- even - you know, fully grown adults. They see their parent as - they don't want a friend they actually want somebody who will accept them. Because it's the only relationship in the world that's actually like that.

Susie Asli: 4:52

Yeah, and we can give that to ourselves if we have a parent that is unable to do that, because not all parents are emotionally mature enough. To be able to give that to us. We can parent ourselves. But when as parents now we can we can focus on giving that to our kids. I love that.

Rachel Richards: 5:08

Yeah. So another thing, quick one before we get onto the big topic, which is, we've had loads of reviews. Thank you guys. Love it. It makes us so happy. So Susie, you've got one there. Which one are you going to read out?

Susie Asli: 5:20

I'm going to read this one out, which is I'm a mum from New Zealand who has two teens, I was having mixed feelings about my teen going to parties with alcohol. So when searching for a podcast about parties I stumbled across teenagers untangled, I've now listened to almost every episode Wow. And have loved each and every one. So relatable, so informative and so entertaining. Thank you both for your words of wisdom. Wow. And keep up the great work.

Rachel Richards: 5:45

That's very, very kind, really wonderful, thank you. And then this one's from Yanika. This one really struck me because she eloquently summed up what we're trying to achieve in a way that I hadn't actually managed myself. As she said, I spent ages trying to fix my teenager, when I stumbled across these podcasts and discovered they don't need fixing, but understanding. So you've helped me understand my daughter and be able to talk to her, handle her and most importantly, help her get through this very difficult time. So being that these podcasts come from presenters who actually have teenagers themselves makes the program real, because they really understand what we're going through, and are able to advise us firsthand with what they did and how they handled it. I mean, I haven't handled everything, but we certainly try and talk to as many people as we can, and how we would cope with a lovely review. It was lovely, thank you. Thank you so much. We really appreciate that

Susie Asli: 6:37

I've found I slightly balk at the word wisdom, my words of wisdom, I don't have any of them. There. Thank you.

Rachel Richards: 6:44

Now our listener is really struggling to find informative content on how to talk to teenagers about sex below the age of consent. And we've already talked about teens at around the age of consent in episode three. So you can go back and listen to that if you want further information. We also have episodes talking about sexting and porn, which are really important - so feel free to listen to those. Her 15 year old daughter is seeing a boy who's just about to turn 16 and is known to have been highly sexualized from the age of 14 and very impulsive. So this is the scenario she's finding herself in. And she wants us to talk about, you know, this entire topic because she's not getting what she needs online. Right. And I also think a lot of parents don't talk about these topics, because they're really difficult because it's a grey area, isn't it? So a little bit of truth. The teenagers are much more sexually active today than they were before the sexual revolution in the 60s and 70s. But there are significantly fewer teenage pregnancies than they were even in the 1990s, which is great. Just brilliant. So let's start with a bit of positive news. And let's do a little fun quiz. So, Susie, what is the age of consent in the UK?

Susie Asli: 8:00

The age of sexual consent? 16.

Rachel Richards: 8:03

What is the age of marriage?

Susie Asli: 8:06

Well, I thought it was 16 with your parents consent, but I'm now wondering if that's been reviewed.

Rachel Richards: 8:11

I'm not sure I've aged the parental consent, but it's the age 18. And according to the UN underage marriage violates the rights of children and should be recognized as a form of slavery, just to put it into context. So they placed it at 18 Just because they consider that to be the age when you can consent to something as legally binding as that.

Susie Asli: 8:32

It didn't used to be 16 in Scotland, and that's why people ran off to Gretna Green.

Rachel Richards: 8:35

Yes. And at what age? below what age? Are you unable to consent to any sexual relationships? Legally? 13. So you see there's a grey area between 13 to 16. Okay. And is it the same for homosexuals as it is for heterosexuals?

Susie Asli: 9:03

I don't know. Yes,

Rachel Richards: 9:05

It wasn't for a very long time. It was 21. Then it was brought down. Now we have equality in the UK. Is it the same in Australia?

Susie Asli: 9:16

Is that a question to me? To you? I'm thinking No, by the question.

Rachel Richards: 9:21

Varies 16 to 17 years depending on the state. How about America?

Susie Asli: 9:26

Again, I know I'd say yes.

Rachel Richards: 9:30

In the majority of states, it's 16, and in the remaining states, it's either 17 or 18. I know we've got listeners in 116 different countries. So I know it will be different in your different countries. The point is your teenagers don't necessarily know the laws. Because even for adults, sometimes it's a bit vague. So as I've just said, it's important for us to accept that you can't just assume your kids know. Now coming back to America. What's really interesting was I came across an organization called unchainedatlast.org on Twitter, funnily enough, and they were saying that only seven US states ban child marriage, which I referred to earlier. Which is under 18. Nearly 200,000 Children as young as 10. Were married in the US between 2002 and 2018 mostly girls wed to adult men.

Susie Asli: 10:22

What? What on earth?

Rachel Richards: 10:27

So. Wow, I'm totally dumbstruck. Yes. There's a woman who's very active on Twitter - and there were other women as well - who was married at a young age and had several children. So, for people sitting in the UK, where it's not the age of consent until 16, then that's sanctioned abuse. So ... live the way you want to live. But to me, that's, I just find that really horrifying. And I didn't think it would be in America, but it is...

Susie Asli: 11:14

Is that in sort of religious places?

Rachel Richards: 11:16

I don't know. I didn't look that deeply into it, I just thought it was worth mentioning. Because the point is, there are different laws around the world. And there are different attitudes towards this very difficult topic, which is why it's difficult for us to talk about it. But um, we're going to. I did my own poll on Instagram, I don't know how many of you are following? Well, I do know how many of you are following us. But it's not everybody. And it was fascinating, because I asked what's the youngest age that you can consent to sex, and most people - the majority - said under 16 was too young. The next most popular vote was that it really depends on the teen. Yes, it's very interesting. The next third most popular was that 13, under 13 is too young, which is legally the case. And only one person said that it's different for boys and girls. Interesting. Now, the reason I created the poll was I just wanted to get a sense of where we are as a community. And I also wanted to give people who responded to it a chance to think about their own opinions, because I often find as a parent that I don't really know what I consciously think about something until I'm made to think about it. Does that make sense? Right. So that's a problem as a parent, because often you're confronted with something, and it just comes at you from from left field, because it's sort of...I've got a 13 year old kid, what? They want to have a relationship and have sex? Well, when we're living our daily lives we don't think about everything we don't think about. So that's why we're here. Okay. One of the sentences that stood out when I was researching this, that I thought was very helpful for us as parents is becoming a sexually healthy adult is a developmental task of adolescence. Wow. So it's actually a job of adolescence. And once you talk about it in terms of development and a task, you start to think a bit more clearly about what is happening here. It's not something we're supposed to be trying to hold our kids back from, you know, saying you mustn't do it, the message is actually more that they will become sexual human beings at some point. So this is part of adolescence. And we, as parents need to think of it as okay, it's going to happen at some point we need to have conversations about it. So let's

Susie Asli: 13:36

Children - as you know, have sexual feelings, quite young children, yes, within their own bodies, and they there's a kind of an awakening isn't there, there's kind of feelings that, that we, as a society can find a bit uncomfortable. Because we think, Oh, it's children. But you know, it's, it's a really long process. And then it becomes relational as they get older.

Rachel Richards: 13:55

Absolutely. Great point. And just quick, hard lines. So I looked at the guidelines for healthcare professionals dealing with underage sex in Oxfordshire. That's one of the counties in England. And it's a procedures manual, and they said that the clear guide is under 13, regardless of whether they're showing sexual interest, they are legally deemed incapable of consenting, and therefore it's a potential criminal or child protection matter. Why aren't they ready? Why, why do we have this in place? What's really interesting is I've admitted before on this program that before the age of 10, I was quite sexual. Looking back, that's what it was. But at the time, I didn't consider it to be anything. It certainly wasn't intercourse or anything like that. But it was very experimental. And it was fine. It was with a boy down my road and I just had the best tim. I did know in my mind somewhere that if we were caught doing this, it might be shameful. So I think we have this in us but also, I think the reason it didn't feel remotely uncomfortable or bad was because he was the same age as me with the same amount of experience, which is zero. And it was just explorative. That's interesting. So we'll come back to that, because I think this matters. Another clear guide is over 16. And under the age of 18, you're not deemed able to give consent if a sexual activity is with an adult in a position of trust or a family member. So that's another one of these clear guidelines that they have. That's an age difference thing, isn't it? So why are we holding the back? Cross sectional research has found that adolescents who have engaged in sexual intercourse are - more likely than adults - to be depressed, and to have attempted suicide. And early initiating female adolescents are especially at risk.

Susie Asli: 15:45

Yeah, that's interesting statistics, isn't it? And that I immediately go, Yeah, but what's the context? What else is going on?

Rachel Richards: 15:53

Oh, absolutely. What's going on? What going on? Pregnancy fears? You know, girls who get pregnant, young, they have much higher health risks, the babies are born small, you know, deaths, all those things. And then there's also the sexual transmission of infections, STIs. And the younger you are, the less likely you are to be aware of what the symptoms are, and to report them and get help.

Susie Asli: 16:21

Yeah. And I think also, you know, I mean, it's really fascinating subject really, isn't it when we think because it's really uncomfortable to think of what we would deem as children to be having sexual intercourse that feels really uncomfortable and really, like a taboo, isn't it for for all the reasons that it is. And I love the way you explained it at the beginning, the idea that it's a process, and that sexualization is a process and there's so much in it isn't that it's like, it's not just a physical act, it's, it's a really beautiful engagement with another human being. It's like, it's really beautiful. And there's so many feelings and so many, it's big. It's not just a button, you flick, Oh, great. I'm 16 and I can go and check that one. It's, it's huge. It's big, it's relational. It's, it's, there's respect, there's love, there's careful tenderness. There's all of those really beautiful qualities within it. It's not just sex,

Rachel Richards: 17:16

I love that you're saying that, because Absolutely, that's the situation. So that's why you don't just have one conversation about sexual health, for example, and then think you've done it, because it's about so many more things than that. I found a fascinating study in the British Medical Journal of Sexual and Reproductive Health, which questioned nearly 3000 people between the ages of 17 and 24. About their first sexual experiences. And they use the World Health Organization standards, it's called, Are you sexually competent? This is the kind of guideline actually - how do you know that someone's sexually competent because this, this matters, because if someone's below the age of 16, it just happens. sex happens.

Susie Asli: 18:03

And kids can be so different, like I have a 14 year old, who's super mature and super developed physically and emotionally and spiritually and all the different elements. And you can have a 14 year old who looks and acts like an 11 year old, they're so different.

Rachel Richards: 18:21

So different. Contraceptive use is the most important one. Well, actually, you know, the most important thing is consent, but it is because contraceptive use, are they using birth control of some sort, and a person who isn't willing and prepared to use contraception during sex is not mature enough to have sex. They're very clear about that. Autonomy? Are they having sex because they truly want to do it? Or are they doing it because of peer pressure or drunkenness? And that's the number two, I'm going to put these all in a little blog on my site, so that you can actually see and come back to these things if you want to go through them.

Susie Asli: 18:57

Because like, they might not even know, what do you

Rachel Richards: 19:01

Yes. I mean, Curiosity is a valid reason for mean? wanting to do it, but with consent it's crucial that both parties verbally and physically agree to have sex, if not, neither party was ready, or one person was forced into it.

Susie Asli: 19:19

And that is so important. Now that's become more important for you know, good reason. There's the backlash of being non consensual is really, really big and potentially super damaging for all parties involved.

Rachel Richards: 19:31

Yeah. And we're becoming very aware. I think you have talked to a lot of parents and parents of boys who've said, this makes me very concerned because I'm not sure how safe and comfortable my son should feel.

Susie Asli: 19:44

And the conversation around it has become known for girls and boys and it's bandied about a bit and it's really damaging. So yes, that's really important.

Rachel Richards: 19:51

And then the right timing they used as well, which is participants reported whether they personally felt like they'd picked the appropriate time. More women than men felt their first sexual experience did not happen at the right time. 40% versus 27%, respectively. And that was the most commonly reported negative feature of the first time sex that they felt that they just hadn't picked the right time.

Susie Asli: 20:15

Okay, well, it was too early or it doesn't

Rachel Richards: 20:17

I don't know. And it doesn't say. So. The most important thing, and we parents looking at this going okay, that's all very well, but what's the situation? What are we supposed to be looking at?

Susie Asli: 20:27

Yeah, because it's all very well having guidelines.

Rachel Richards: 20:30

I wanted to give you some background about why we are where we are. So power imbalances, right, this is one of the most important things to look out for and to have conversations about with your teenagers. Imbalances can be difference in size, different in age difference in development. And, you know, any of this stuff, knowledge, sexual knowledge, so this lady who contacted us. Right from the start, I look at that and I say, okay, you've got a young girl, she didn't explain how, knowledgeable this girl is, but she gave me the impression that she's not necessarily that experienced, who started dating a boy who's very sexually experienced and has been since 14 and is impulsive. So that to me, she's already given some really big red flags there.

Susie Asli: 21:24

Ah, yes. Yeah, brilliant. That would worry me too.

Rachel Richards: 21:28

Yes. And, or if they're in a position of trust, like a teacher or somebody who they shouldn't be. That's a big issue. So I asked in the poll, is it different for boys and girls? And only one person said, Yes. What do you think?

Susie Asli: 21:42

I don't know, my I've got two boys and one girl, and they're very different as all our kids are. They're very different stages of life and different stages socially. Yeah, I don't think it's clear cut, I think is different for them. But I think it's also not always as you might assume. So there's, there's been sort of instances with boys and maybe friends of my boys as well, where, you know, maybe the girl has the power imbalance has been the girl is more keen or more interested, or? And maybe, I don't know, I'm just speculating. Maybe it's harder for a boy to have the role where they don't want to, or they get pushed? Because traditionally, it's the other way around. I don't know there is that there is this element of Yes. You know, peer pressure, which way does it go? And what's normal? What's traditional? But it's? Yeah, it's very individual. And very,

Rachel Richards: 22:44

I think it is different boys and girls,

Susie Asli: 22:46

and boys don't necessarily talk about it in the same way.

Rachel Richards: 22:49

In that same way. Yeah. So

Susie Asli: 22:50

the only friends, but maybe also at home, it's a bit more like, Oh, Mom, I'm pretty embarrassing. Whereas the girl will also find it awkward. Possibly. I mean, depends on your relationships, and no, but there's more of an openness and more of an understanding, because you know, and it comes back to the old chestnut of the girl can get pregnant, and the boy can't,

Rachel Richards: 23:11

in my opinion, it is different. And pretending it's not different, won't make it go away.

Susie Asli: 23:16

I think the similarity now is actually that the similarity is, you know, if you look at it from Are you ready to have a sexual relationship, then they're both equal. Are you mature enough? Are you ready? Are you loving? Are you respectful? Are you, you know, how do you view it? Are you all of those things? They're absolutely equal?

Rachel Richards: 23:35

Yes. And I'm glad you mentioned about the relationship because the ones that were found to be a problem were ones where they were in an unstable relationship or not a proper relationship.

Susie Asli: 23:45

I guess that's different. Yes. So it's different. Is it? Is it a relational thing that you you know, you're really feeling feelings for another person similar to your own age? Or is it? Are you drunk at a party? That's really a different situation,

Rachel Richards: 23:56

and mentioning that? I mean, I know a friend of my daughter was at a party drunk and a guy was trying trying it on with her and she said no, and he went and told everybody that she was, a prude. I love what you said, because I think it's important for us not to assume either that the boy is pushing for it or that the girl isn't Yeah, no, it's yes. And, and the reason also that's important is one lady I spoke to said that there was a really difficult situation that her kids found themselves in there was a party, A girl was seen out in the garden, on top of a boy having sex with him, and later she called rape. And when this woman discovered what had happened, she actually contacted the girl and said, I just want to have a conversation with you about this. It's okay to feel sexual. It's okay to have those emotions and, having had a really warm, loving conversation with this woman. She backed down on what she was saying now I hope that it wasn't the wrong approach, but it did in all intents and purposes look like she was actually willingly consenting to that. And that's the problem is the shame that girls can be can feel in feeling sexual can also make this a very difficult fraught situation, which then ends up going the wrong way.

Susie Asli: 25:17

Yeah. And that's so damaging. And I think the word shame is really key in the whole topic. I think we're very shameful about sex as a culture. Yeah, it's a bit, you know, there's still, you know, oh, it's naughty, shouldn't be doing it all, you know, kind of giggling, sort of culture behind it. And which kids will, you know, pick up on very, very early. So the whole conversation around sex is, not ideal.

Rachel Richards: 25:44

And I think it's really, problematic, because our kids are living in an environment that's highly sexualized, we can't get away from it. Even if your kids don't have access to pornography via their devices. It's, infusing our sexual culture. And we have to be honest about that.

Susie Asli: 26:03

And I think we as parents can, and however awkward it is, yeah, kind of try and redress the balance, because the pornography that they're watching, which they are watching, I'm sorry to break, it is really sexualized, it's graphic, it's violent, some of it, it's not loving sex. And we can go in and, you know, try and redress the balance a little bit, you know, sow those seeds that actually do know what sex in a loving relationship does not look like that. Sex is really beautiful. And it's a really important part of a relationship. And let's celebrate that and be, you know, have that conversation and to try and kind of point out that that's a massive contrast. And, you know, you can do one without

Rachel Richards: 26:49

Yeah, it's such an important point. And the other. just to put it into context, so people genuinely understand how far we've come away from this sense that it's about love. A Labour MP- labour is one of our parties stood up in the Houses of Parliament during a discussion about online safety, and suggested that in our sex education, we should be teaching teenagers how to strangle safely, because one of his relations had died of auto fixation at the age of 15, trying this out. This is what some teens are being exposed to a lot of teens - strangulation has been used a lot in pornography, and it's bleeding into our culture. We need to know this. And we need to tell our teenagers, first of all, it's not an act of love, or anything that they should be trying. It's Russian Roulette, people die. And people can get brain damage from that behavior. So we need to be really, it's hard because some people feel very uncomfortable about having these conversations.

Susie Asli: 27:48

you're gonna go Oh, yay, Mom, that's not a great idea. Have a cup of tea? Yeah, they're not they're going to squirm and think you're a horrible for doing it or whatever they think.

Rachel Richards: 27:57

But you need that context. Yeah. And another woman who contacted me off the back of the survey that I put up on Instagram said that she had moved from a very simple, lovely school to a highly sexualized, secondary school, which shocked her, she didn't really understand where all these people were coming from. And by 14/15, they're all having sex. And so she was that was normalized. And she said, she ended up having two sexual relationships young, which she consented to, but because she was under pressure, and she said, she actually thought there was something wrong with her because she didn't really like it. And it wasn't until she was off to 16/17 years old, that she actually had a relationship with someone she loved, and thought, oh, oh, I like this. And that's the point. The point is, we want our kids to understand that just because because because one of the really important things is the environment they're living in. So we create some of the environment, but so does the school that they're in. So if the school is like that, we need to be weighing in more definitely, with how they can counteract that with their words and their thoughts.

Susie Asli: 29:14

Yeah, and as with all the topics we discuss, we need to also have a really good thing about what do we really think about the subject? Because I think it's a really fearful one, and it's a one we panic about. And rightly or wrongly, you know, people have been having sex underage for a long time. It's not a new thing. So maybe we don't need to panic, or maybe we do, I don't know, but maybe we definitely need to, as in all topics really have a think. What are my values in this? What do I think is the right way to be what do I think is important in the sexual relationship or in any of it? Before we can kind of even address it with our kids

Rachel Richards: 29:52

Exactly, be thinking that before you have to have that conversation with your teenager because just saying no, or just letting it slide and thinking it doesn't really matter. Yeah, neither is a good answer.

Susie Asli: 30:03

And as we discussed in the other, the other podcasts we did about about about sex. Often our teenagers are going to do what they're going to do. So as in other topics as well, too hard No, is possibly probably not gonna stop it to know exactly, it's not going to stop it, they're just gonna do it somewhere dangerous or have less information about it. So it's more of an advisory, suggestive, nudging, you know, giving them facts that they might not like, or that might actually shock them or whatever your values on your feelings are on it, but to give them advice,

Rachel Richards: 30:37

and not assuming that they understand you need to explain this stuff quite clearly. You know, that survey I talked about in the British Medical Journal, 22% of

Susie Asli: 30:45

And you can be quite clear, I mean, I've kind of have women and 36% of the men who'd had sex for the first time at a fairly young age between 13 and 14, were deemed sexually competent by the scale that they used in this. Right. So this is the point. So you know, that's, I don't know, like quarter over quarter. So we so don't panic, if this is sudden, this is happening in your world, but you need to be really realistic about what they should be looking out for, and where the problems are. had that experience as well, you can be quite clear about what you think is, is you should be acceptable and what is not acceptable.

Rachel Richards: 31:28

Because just with smoking, alcohol, vaping all those things, the more clear you are about what you think the more likely your teenager is to do what you would rather they did or to do less of what you'd rather they didn't. But it do it in a way that you were you explaining yourself, not just, you know, ruling with an iron rod. why did why did kids not do it? I mean, there was a survey in 20 at this old, but survey in 2011 said the top reason for both sexes not engaging in young sex was religion and morals, then concern about possible pregnancy and not having the right person. So you know, I

Susie Asli: 32:04

think I read somewhere. I mean, that's brilliant. Yeah. All those things. One of the biggest deterrents in in teenage pregnancy, or even having sex was, I think it's in the states where they sometimes give teenage girls a baby doll to take home and take care of, and it wees, and I don't know what else I think they need to give that to the boys as well. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Actually, I know very little about it. And maybe they already do. Yes, they should. And, you know, they had to feed the baby in the night and to get up and they were like, I do not want a child. You know, it really hammered the message home. I think it's brilliant.

Rachel Richards: 32:41

Yes, I feel sorry for my bonus daughters, because they saw my two being born this contraception. That doesn't look good. So really, what we're trying to do is we're trying to help our adolescents recognize all the aspects of sexual development and say to them, I'm not saying you're not ready, what I'm saying is, have you thought about this? Have you considered this? Do you know what this would have? What happens to you further down the line, and the thing about early sex and STIs is that - what I didn't know before I read about this was that your immune system continues developing through puberty. So the earlier you have sex, and are exposed to any of these STIs, the more likely they are to turn into something horrible, including cancer. So that's why they give the inoculation at 13.

Susie Asli: 33:35

Just what you said at the beginning of that bit was I would be happy actually to say I don't think you're ready.

Rachel Richards: 33:41

Yes for these reasons. And one lovely lady who listens to this podcast said, she told her daughter, the first time you have sex, you will remember it for the rest of your life, that person is going to be back there in the back of your mind. Make sure it's good. Make sure it's not somebody you think oh, no, that was awful. So I like that's a really good one. And also don't tell girls that the first time they have sex, it's going to hurt this remote message. It shouldn't, it shouldn't. So if you are a parent, and you've you're dealing with this signs that they are having sex. So as soon as they start dating, or if they're not dating, but they're starting to have behavior where you think, Oh, I didn't know they probably are okay, they probably are going down that path. So you need to get in there. So start talking about this well before they start dating, you are within your rights to limit their access to a partner. So you are within your rights to put in curfews to restrict, you know, but know that if you do that, then they may just find other places to do these things. But lots of parents make them keep the doors open. If they you know, another one I have a friend of mine said that her daughter had brought a boy home. And she said, Oh, he's lovely what a lovely boy. But you know, he walked through the door and I said, Hello, darling. So I'm her mother. And I'm just saying to you this is our downstairs, you see those stairs? You're never going up there. So that was her response to him. So you can do you do you? Yeah. And you discuss it with your teenager. So they know

Susie Asli: 35:27

that in the key of all of it is everything we talked about? Is your relationship with your kid and the conversations you have about it? Yes.

Rachel Richards: 35:35

So things I read are that are signs your teenager was starting to have sex, one of the first things they said was that their kids weren't sleeping properly, they're not eating properly, they're much moodier. They become obsessive about the person. You know, and this is a problem because actually, we're again, because we know that the prefrontal cortex isn't developed, you know, the younger they are, the more likely they are to be completely swayed by a relationship and a sexual relationship and not know the sorts of feelings that they may be exposed to. Because they may not realize that those feelings really exist. Yeah. And and then they'll be brought on

Susie Asli: 36:10

exactly that because they they see it and we all I'm sure did. It is a physical act, but it's so much bigger, much bigger,

Rachel Richards: 36:18

which is what you said earlier, knock them sideways. Yes. So, you know, I hope this has helped you are within your rights to try and create boundaries, but explain to them why this is so important. what the problems are long term. Earlier on, I said that girls who initiate sex, younger are more likely to have these problems than boys. But all teenagers who initiate sex younger are more likely to have emotional problems. However, more recent research has said as they get older, that tends to drop off. So even if they've done it early, and then they've had a real problem with it. They managed to get through it - the majority of them - so don't panic if it's happened. And you think how are we ever gonna get

Susie Asli: 37:07

And maybe also have a sort of a little look and a through this? listen. How do you generally approach the whole topic of sex? If you're in a relationship, not that we sit and talk about sex at dinner? But you know,what's your attitude to it? because they're picking up on all of it. And it's so important because in our culture, there's so much potential shame. And you know, this sort of quasi Victorian Ooh, she shouldn't be doing that, you know, smutty kind of stuff. And I think it's really damaging.

Rachel Richards: 37:40

I completely agree. I think we need more sex, and the kissing and the hugging. And they're just, you know, if you don't have a partner, or you don't have a good relationship with them, it's harder, but but even talking about what you would consider to be a good relationship and you don't have to be overly romantic. You can just talk about how it's, I was having a conversation with my daughter last night about where she had put a boundary in place with me and said, you know, Mom, I don't like you doing this. And I said, Okay. Oh, that's Thank you. I really appreciate you saying that. Because now I can see that it's upsetting you. That's fine. And then I said to her just so you know, this is the sort of conversation you should be able to have with anybody, including when you get a boyfriend. If you can't have these sorts of conversations, then that's not a great relationship.

Susie Asli: 38:33

No. And that's really important tying that to consent.

Rachel Richards: 38:37

So you can take the conversations you have about your own relationship and say, by the way, if you don't feel comfortable having these sorts of conversations with somebody, you might not be ready to sex.

Susie Asli: 38:46

Yeah. They can say something to you, and you say fine, or you say no, or you say yes, that is that's a normal part of life.

Rachel Richards: 38:53

Yes. It's yeah. So we're building a community with our podcast. So what's more important is that we approach these subjects with understanding and information, rather than judgment, right, so if this episode has helped you, then why not help other parents, tell your friends, tell the school, subscribe to our podcast, and it would be a massive bonus if you left a review, please. Yes. Always, happy to see them. You can also sign up to receive all the latest at our own website, which is www.teenagersuntangled.com Where there's a blog reviews links to every episode and easy ways to contact us. Susie has her own website, which is

Susie Asli: 39:28

www.amindful-life.co.uk.

Rachel Richards: 39:33

Amazing stuff on there. She also put stuff on Instagram and lots of really great little tips so that you can just, you know, see one thing, practice it that week. You can contact her she can talk to you about the way she can conduct therapy.

Susie Asli: 39:47

Yep, you can do a free chat if you want.

Rachel Richards: 39:53

We're also on social media. Like I said, Instagram Facebook, I'm better at Instagram. I find Facebook really clunky and I'm terrible on it. So I'm sorry. Been on Facebook waiting for me to talk and I'm just really bad at it anyway, next time we're going to talk about conflict resolution, which is a really important skill for our teens and all of us. Now, that's it. Anything else?

Susie Asli: 40:12

No, I think that's everything for now. Okay. Bye for now. Bye for now.