#9 – You're a Beautiful Woman, Probably: ROGUE

[00:00:00] Hello and welcome to TARDIS Rubbish, I'm Josh. Today we're talking about Rogue, episode 6 of Ncuti Gatwa's first season as The Doctor. And with me on the console today, long friend and even longer time Doctor Who fan, welcome Guy.

[00:00:15] Hey, everybody.

[00:00:17] And he is a frequent contributor to The Secret Origins of Mint Condition podcast and Trash Compactor, A Mostly Star Wars Podcast. Welcome John.

[00:00:25] Hey, glad to be here again.

[00:00:28] And joining our TARDIS stalwarts, he is a TV and video game writer, a WGA award nominee for his work on a little show you may have heard of called Family Guy. You could hear him as Travis, a companion to the Doctor, and later as an incarnation of the Doctor himself on five seasons of The Game of Rassilon podcast.

[00:00:44] I'm extremely excited to welcome Dan.

[00:00:47] Hi, thanks for having me. And that is also like, The nicest introduction I think I've ever received, so thank you.

[00:00:55] It's all downhill from here, trust me. Um,

[00:00:58] So Dan, we have a tradition here at TARDIS Rubbish, when someone makes their first appearance on the show, we ask them who their favorite doctor is for sort of calibration purposes, so we know where they're coming from.

[00:01:07] So Dan, who is your favorite doctor?

[00:01:10] I know it's the populist answer, but I am such a David Tennant fanboy that I think Michael Sheen and I would get along, like, smashingly, so I will say David Tennant. I will say Ncuti is a ready, like, in a foot race towards the top, especially after this episode, but DT's my guy.

[00:01:29] I just, like, I gotta.

[00:01:31] Nothing wrong with that. I think, every favorite Doctor poll conducted in the last, you know, 10 or 15 years would agree with you. though I have to ask, 10 or 14?

[00:01:41] you know, it's two, it's two great tastes in one package. So, you know, you can't, uh, Yeah, I can't necessarily answer. Like, I really did appreciate the more mature take of the 14th Doctor, but I do love the manic energy of the 10th. Just, I'm just saying David Tennant. Like, that's why I said, David Tennant.

[00:01:58] David Tennant and not 10 or 14, okay?

[00:02:01] Fair enough. Fair enough. Um, I thought I could get you on a technicality there, but no, no, no. No, you're right. Alright, so let's start with our overall thoughts on Rogue. John, let's start with you. Yeah,

[00:02:13] um, you know, you know what's difficult is when your own reaction shifts day by day to the episode you watched. So, this is, this is my opinion this hour of this day, um, as, as it stands. Um, I liked the episode, um, I give it a seven and a half. I can't quite give it an eight, don't feel it's quite as low as a seven.

[00:02:38] I really enjoyed it. Uh, I felt it had some, uh, parts that didn't quite connect, but I loved what they were going for and, um, uh, I'll admit I am, I've not watched Bridgerton myself. I've, I'm well aware of it. I've watched trailers. I love period pieces. I was totally ready for, you know, a period piece on this, but knowing the What the vibe of Bridgerton was, uh, going in, I said, Oh, this is gonna be, this is gonna be something, uh, They're gonna try something cute with this.

[00:03:08] And it went in directions I completely did not expect. Um, we got, uh, a, Oh, should I just, should I just go in and say this? Yeah, I'm just gonna do it. We got a cheaper Jack Harkness, like, Rogue is not quite Captain Jack, and I know it's like, oh, we're comparing the gay to the gay, but, Bounty Hunter, out there doing their own thing, have their own ship, may or may not be able to time travel, whatever that is.

[00:03:36] Like, there's a lot of parallels here, and I enjoyed it, but I couldn't help but being brought back to like, Oh, this is sort of like Captain Jack, but nonetheless, really fun. Um, episode was a little bit forced, in aspects, the first episode. aspect of romance in The Doctor. A little bit, uh, a little bit awkward.

[00:03:53] I think, uh, uh, that could have been definitely handled a little bit better. Um, but I, I'm taking this episode as a fanfic. The episode's about cosplay. It's about bird shapeshifters cosplaying as humans. I love that concept so much. I think it's silly, fun, scary, all of it, you know, that we typically get from but this is, this is, uh, based on like what I saw, this episode feels like Um, it just, we happened to get it in the actual run of the show.

[00:04:25] Uh, so that's, that's my take on it. And looking at it from that, I really enjoy it. Uh, I'm curious to see now where they, where they take The Doctor's, uh, interests. But, uh, the unsung hero of the episode is Ruby. She actually, for me, was the really standout cool performance because I loved, her character's confidence, but also just, like, trying and doing things.

[00:04:48] And, what else can I say? Battle mode. Yeah. Yeah,

[00:04:52] just out of curiosity, I just want to follow up real quick. Like when you say it feels like fan fiction dropped into the run of the show, like, what do you mean exactly? Because sometimes I hear that sort of deployed as kind of a, as kind of a missive, it's sort of like,

[00:05:05] don't mean it in a deprecating way. I mean it in a way that it had a very different sense of writing than, like, this wasn't Russell Davies. And you could tell it wasn't necessarily like, uh, uh, somebody who would, you know, has and is in charge of the show in their vision. This felt, um, a bit like the writer's like, you know what?

[00:05:25] I want to see what happens if we do this. You know, and fanfiction is an area which, yes, a lot of negative connotations, a lot of crazy areas, but it's often an area where fans explore an idea that does not make it into the main. And it could be a romantic interest, it could be very horny, which this episode was very horny, and sometimes it's just somebody's fantasy made manifest.

[00:05:51] This felt like, what if we did this? And then what if we did this? Um, and I feel like Seeing that it was two writers, different than the showrunners or past showrunners, gave them a little bit of freedom to do that. So that's how I'm actually looking at the episode now. I feel like it is that. It's like, yeah, what if we did do this with The Doctor?

[00:06:11] What if we did this with the vibe of it? What if we did this with another character? Bring in this actor, try these things out. Um, And to go down that rabbit hole of like what this season is about, the Toymaker, everything's sort of, the rules have been shifted, nobody knows what they are, there's magic. Um, uh, yeah, this is, this is something, taking it, what if we put little different elements into it and try The Doctor falling for somebody real fast.

[00:06:37] Maybe too fast to actually justify the acting on screen, but that's I'm sure what we're gonna get into. Uh, but it was some cool different attempts that felt like you're allowed to do because it's a little bit outside of the main writing. And yeah, it doesn't feel like it completely fits with the continuity, but maybe that's also the point of it.

[00:06:57] Uh, so I mean fanfic in a more descriptive way. No, no, no, uh, insult needed. And sometimes it can be fun to see, well, yeah, what would your fantasy of what The Doctor, uh, is like? I mean, let's admit it, we've probably all seen various forms of artwork over the years of people's ideas as to what they want to see The Doctor.

[00:07:15] I mean, I, I know, I, I've seen the pictures of, uh, Well, yeah, it would have been David Tennant's Doctor and Captain Jack. That was a big thing. I was at Comic Con in 2000. I think when, uh, uh, John Barrowman was one of the lead, uh, people there. And I thought it was going to be a bunch of Doctor Who fans. Uh, and it was a Doctor Who fan, but it was mostly teenage girls.

[00:07:38] I, I felt really out of place there. And they were all freaking out about him. And also the idea of, did he ever hook up with The Doctor? So there's a huge audience out there that I was, you know, surrounded by at Comic Con, that really loves this kind of stuff. And I felt like that was sort of a little bit of what we're getting as well.

[00:07:59] What would it, you know, let's explore those angles of it and see what it was like. And, uh, Given that it was a sort of a silly, uh, uh, period piece, I can, I can, I can really get into that.

[00:08:11] No, totally. No, that makes a lot of sense. I was also forgetting. fan fictions close association with like the phenomenon of like slash fic so so i think that that's also like what you were just saying it's like well what if we made the Doctor slash Captain Jack into an actual episode of Doctor Who is sort of what you just reminded me of no no that's interesting. Uh Guy overall thoughts

[00:08:33] I liked it. Uh, I didn't love it. And I wanted to love it. And when I was done watching it, I felt, uh, I felt disappointed that I didn't like it more than I think I was, directed, to like it. I mean, it hit all the bells and whistles and being gay and loving Doctor Who since I was 10. I Finally see myself in an episode, um, after 40 plus years of watching this series, and everybody around, you know, loving The Doctor, but him never really, even with River Song, you never, I was like, you never really got a sense of him, you know, really loving her back.

[00:09:22] I mean, I know they, I know he loved her and whatnot, that's neither here nor there, but this is the first time that The Doctor was a giddy little schoolgirl, you know, and, and, and, and is smitten. Um, I mean, with, I think it was Ricky September, um, back in, in Dot and Bubble, he was kind of, he made a comment toward, you know, oh, he's a good looking guy.

[00:09:44] Um, but this time we got to see him kind of pine, but the thing is, It was forced. I felt it was forced. I, I wanted to like the rogue character. I mean the, the name of the episode, uh, and the way it splashed on screen in you know, the title sequence is more exciting than the actual character. I thought that, um, Jonathan Groff did a serviceable job as the, this, this, uh, good looking rogue, uh, but I didn't think he earned I don't think he earned Maybe I'm jealous.

[00:10:22] Maybe it's me. Maybe I'm just jealous. Maybe it was like, no, that's, that's not you. That should have been me. That's wrong. Look at me. Actually, no more hair. But when I was younger, I had hair. It took you too long, Doctor. Took you too long to see what was right in front of you. Anyway, I, I So I thought it was a really good I thought the story beats were good.

[00:10:51] I liked the villains. Um, Like, John, I really loved Ruby in this episode. I really, really loved Ruby. It's very interesting that for two big episodes, they were literally, really apart. They weren't together. I mean, it just felt like they were not present.

[00:11:08] And then when we finally get back together, They separate them again, just so the Doctor can go have this, uh, romantic liaison. And I thought some of the reactions of, , Rogue, you know, I thought were, were, I, I, I read them as sarcastic and not genuinely. Like when he saw the numerous faces that the Doctors had, and he utters that word, wow, I was like, that sounded sarcastic.

[00:11:35] Like, oh, I'm not impressed. Instead of what, like what, like, I would be really impressed. It should have been me. So I, I think that I, I give it a solid seven. I don't give it a seven and a half. I don't give it a six and a half. I give it a solid seven. Um, just because I think that I was being told to, to feel a certain way.

[00:11:57] And I was like, no, you're not earning it from me. I mean, that's, it was not earned this relationship and it was not earned. I think the last thing that Rogue said was, Find me, you know, come find me was the most honest, truthful thing that he had said in the entire episode with To The Doctor. And it was actually like that one sentence actually like, no, don't go.

[00:12:20] You were actually like connected. You actually finally, for me, connected with this amazing thousands of year old alien that, um, could show you the stars. So that's my take.

[00:12:36] my thoughts tend to align with yours, but, Dan, overall thoughts on Rogue?

[00:12:40] Um, so, I will say going into the episode, I was, I, I, it's not that I wasn't anticipating the episode. I would say it was maybe a little bit less so, just because I haven't watched Bridgerton. The Regency era is not my thing, but at the same time, it was like, Big Johnathan Groff fan, big Indira Varma fan. It was like, so I'm going in, you know, willing, you know, this is not my world, but I'm going in willing to buy.

[00:13:05] I, first watching, I really, really liked it, and then I watched it again, and I loved it. Um, I think that the best way to view a lot of this episode, and I only just, like, thought of this, like, The whole episode was a D& D one shot. Like, the fact that we have the Dungeons and Dragons, DICE, and Rogue being the character's name, but the whole thing is it takes place in one location, and You know, it, it, it's very much, a lot of d and d games and things like that are often, well, I'm gonna put my players in a situation that is a version of this story or that story.

[00:13:47] And I think the cosplay element of that means that they all were, and like, you know, it, it really was almost more like live action, role play, you know, with the, with the villains wanting to become the characters and stuff like that though. But I think. I buy a lot of the quick romance and stuff like that because we know, oh, we only have this one session to get through.

[00:14:07] And then with Rogue at the end saying, find me, that's the DM saying, I like this character, I'm gonna bring them back at a future point. Like, I, I think there is A 0 percent chance that we will never see Rogue again. Like, they're, all of, all of the interviews for this season, when they ask the cast, which was your favorite episode, they keep saying Regency.

[00:14:28] Regency was the favorite episode. Which leads me to believe also that that was the original title for the episode, and they changed it to Rogue, which, Maybe it goes with what you were saying, like, oh, well we didn't really get much of this character, but the episode is named after him. I think they changed it because of like, regency, maybe just not like a great episode title, but it's that, it's that whole thing.

[00:14:47] It's like we're in a mansion, everything's happened in one night. We have to figure out the mystery, the the, the party splits and when they come together is when you have like the big boss battle kind of thing. Um, but I, I loved it. I, I, I. I think that the casting of this season has been absolutely phenomenal through the roof.

[00:15:07] I think Ncuti is This episode was worth it alone for the gif of him dancing to, uh, the Kylie Minogue song. Like, just stuff like that, the interplay. I think Millie Gibson has now proven, like, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that she might be one of the best actresses to ever be a companion on Doctor Who. Like, she can carry entire episodes, she can carry You know, B Plot, and that part where like they're separated for most of it and then they come together and they're talking over one another because they've each figured out the same mystery in a different way, like, it's just so playful and heartwarming and true and The Doctor calls her my best friend.

[00:15:45] It's just like, I loved it. I really, I really did. You know, there was a beauty to it, and like, I, I saw some people saying, uh, you know, Oh, we finally got the, the on screen, you know, queer kiss that we didn't get with, uh, uh, uh, Jodie's Doctor and, and, uh, and, uh, Yazz, but, um, I, I, you know, this is like the first romantic queer kiss that The Doctor's ever had.

[00:16:12] Like, there've been, like, just the joke, like, the, oh, I'm gonna give you, like, a quick smooch type thing, and, you know, I'm straight as they come and I was like, yes, yeah, they're doing it like good for them. I love it. And you know, like I think watching it the second time, when you, when you know who Rogue is, and you know who are the, um, the villains.

[00:16:33] I, I, I keep forgetting the name of the, the shapeshifting, uh, alien, so I apologize for that. But, like, when you know who is what, and you can follow it, it's like, yeah, this is really, like, densely layered, and The Doctor is completely caught off guard, and Rogue even, at one point, says, is a good look on you, and I think, Yeah, like, The Doctor finding themself in a situation where, Oh yeah, we're here just to have a good time.

[00:16:58] Okay, yeah, I'm used to going places and things go sideways and aliens and monsters show up. But, oh, this is something I just was not expecting. And the chemistry between the two of them was incredible. although I will say, When he was, uh, egging on Rogue to, like, say something and he couldn't say anything, it was like, Well, you're a D& D player!

[00:17:18] You know how to improvise! Say something here! And the proposal It was great for the scandal effort. and I think that's why I bought it. Like, it, it was panicky dude behavior. Like, uh, will you marry me? Like, that was kind of it. But no, I, I, it was a blast. I loved the, the designs of the five unique bird people.

[00:17:41] My favorite was the, the bald blue guy with the really long eyebrows. Like, I, I, you know, weird on Doctor Who always works. Well, okay, maybe not always works, but has like a higher hit percentage. But yeah, I mean, again, I went into this episode knowing that it's not geared towards me, but look at this amazing time I had.

[00:18:03] Now that's phenomenal, and you're actually inspiring me to watch it again. Um, I mean, I liked it. I thought it was a lot of fun. I thought the humor really landed. Um, I thought the performances were stellar. I thought the conceit of the villains was really cool. I'm always a sucker for a good, The Doctor is a badass moment where he reiterates that he's a Time Lord from Gallifrey and there was a really awesome scene, which, by the way, can we talk about how Richard E.

[00:18:28] Grant as the, Scream of the Shalka Doctor is maybe now canon? I'm not sure,

[00:18:33] Yeah, that, that, that caught me by surprise.

[00:18:36] my perked up at that moment for sure.

[00:18:38] I actually started yelling at the TV. I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa!

[00:18:43] I was watching it with the Rassilon folks and we, uh, after the episode, we went back and we're like, okay, wait, did they miss anyone? What was the order? So we went through like, frame by frame, like, you know, Zaparuder film, like, okay, wait, wait, wait, who's that? Wait, Wait, which Doctor is that? Oh, wait. And then we moved it a couple frames.

[00:19:01] Oh, it's Paul McGann. We just couldn't see his hair well in the shot. So it was just, yeah,

[00:19:05] I just love the whole, it's all true approach to Doctor Who that the show is endorsing. and I'm reminded actually of that line in, I think it was The Children in Need, Special with Davros and the Daleks, I forget, what it was called, but, David Tennant as the 14th doctor, had a line.

[00:19:21] He said something like the walls of Canon or rupturing or something. And it was, I thought it was like a tongue in cheek thing. but you know, maybe it was like a literal, comment on the changing nature of the rules of the show.

[00:19:33] It's a very, like, head explosion sort of moment. But, um, let's get right to the big stuff. the romance, the kiss, the pining on the part of the Doctor for Rogue. I think it's the first time we've seen The Doctor in sort of the pursuer mode.

[00:19:49] do we all think about this?

[00:19:51] It was, it was a, it was a surprise. It had me, Uh, watching the episode, uh, sort of on, on the edge of my seat. Like, wait, are they, are they not? I think I was texting the two of you almost in real time as I'm watching this. I was like, wait, are they going, are they doing this? Is the Doctor, is the Doctor getting giddy?

[00:20:10] Like, what is happening here? Um, uh, Dan, I just need to thank you, though, for your reaction to that episode description of it. So, so often, there's a difference between, like, my first viewing, then my critique, which then, like, takes away from my initial experience, um, and then coming back to it, where, like, I appreciate this podcast because it also brings me fully back to the, well, what was it like just to experience it?

[00:20:35] Um, and it was really interesting. So different to experience The Doctor going after somebody. I was thinking the same thing, like River Song. That was an intense, deep, profound relationship with a really cool mechanic of going in two different directions in time. Loved that storyline. But it was, it was high level.

[00:20:55] It was, it was like abstracted and intellectualized. This was emotional. This was, uh, uh, really, really powerful. Just present, and I think that's because this Doctor is meant to be younger, not just played by a younger actor, but I feel like when they introduced, as a character who, as a Doctor who is, uh, sort of healed a bit.

[00:21:17] Uh, I feel like that also means that they're kind of coming back to, I don't know, maybe an earlier version of themselves. I don't want to say more human, that's the only word I sort of have in my vocabulary for it, but, but, but more fully realized as, as a being, not just, you know, this all powerful, again, sort of almost abstracted character.

[00:21:39] It's, wait, no, the rules have changed, and part of it is because the bi generation meant that there, there's some different things going on. The Toymaker's influence is such a great MacGuffin to justify how you're gonna explore different storylines. And this was, yeah, seeing him pining for somebody. And yes, Guy, it should have been you.

[00:21:56] It should have absolutely been you. Um, and maybe that's why I was not completely sold, uh, by Johnathan Groff, who I love, too. I mean King George, Hamilton. Can't beat, you know, that, that, I just love him. Um, but, there, the, it, it, it's, it seemed like they were, like, writing it in a Dr. Falls for him, and Ncuti did such a good job, you're like, oh my god, he's really falling for him.

[00:22:22] Uh, and it's also, it was, it was really, it was really gay. Because, I mean, it was meant to be really good, because it's like, when you have that moment where it's like, Oh, he has Kylie at the top of his playlist, I sque I screamed. I was just like, oh my god, of course, of course, that was my word. Of course, of course he does.

[00:22:42] And I realized, yeah, this is, this is meant to be. I think that's my line of, like, where it comes from being fanfic, is that it was, yeah, it was written by a fan who was like, what would it be like if, you know, these conditions were met?

[00:22:53] What's real funny, if I can jump in real quick, is that It's a Kylie Minogue song, and the episode that Kylie Minogue is in is also another, The Doctor falls romantically for someone and loses that person at the end, uh, and unfortunately she dies, but at the end of this one also, He falls romantically and loses the person and, you know, both Russell T Davies episodes, I don't, like, I may be over analyzing it, but I, I noticed that on second, on second watch, so it's like, that's why I'm certain Rogue is coming back.

[00:23:26] Yeah, I mean, I think that's sort of it coming full circle is that they've been building the idea of The Doctor as a full being. Oh my god, I just I just had a thought. This is sort of like, imagine a lot of fans are like, okay, The Doctor is not supposed to be like this, but it's also Sort of like, you don't want to imagine your parents as fully human.

[00:23:47] I think a lot of people, you know, it's like, no, no, no, no, no. I was conceived immaculately. Like that's, that's just how that goes. Um, I think there's a lot of that with The Doctor is, is, is that he's almost as immaculate character. There's no, uh, you know, real sexuality there. Uh, as you said, just sort of a peck on the cheek.

[00:24:04] There isn't that. Um, so it is a bit, It's a little bit, um, uh, uh, not unnerving. It's, it's, it's just different. It's, it's, it's, I'm not, we're not used to it. And. There are going to be a lot of fans, just as we said last week, going to be like, well, that's it, that was the last straw, now I'm not, now I'm going to stop watching the show.

[00:24:22] And they've been saying that for 10 years. Uh, I, I think there will definitely be a level of discomfort with some people with that. I think it's a brilliant direction to go because, uh, I think, Josh, you were saying earlier, or Dan, you were saying that the demographics look like they're getting a lot of younger, uh, uh, watchers.

[00:24:39] Well, I think you need that. You need, you need to start playing into like, oh, The Doctor is going to be more than just what we've explored for 60 years. uh, uh, Let's go in some new cool directions. And I knew we were going to get some of that when, We first saw him meeting Ruby and he's dancing in the club and I was like, oh, this doctor is exploring themselves and is exploring not only time and space, but themselves.

[00:25:07] Um, and that's sort of what I'm seeing from the season. That's what I love about seeing him fall in love. I just wish there had been more actual chemistry Groff can do it. Um, but I, I will say, I think I mentioned this to Guy, is that I spent, uh, years deconstructing the HBO series Looking, which he starred on, which was, uh, a big represent, you know, one of the earlier representations of like, a full gay cast, what life was like, and of course, the gays watching the show, me and my friends, we're all gay.

[00:25:36] Ripping it to shreds. People are like, well, that's not as good. We're funnier than they are in real life. And it's just funny because you give us what we want, and we are going to critique the hell out of it. So you can't win with the gays. I own that. You can't, you can't please us, um, until we finally come around and admit, well, yeah, actually, that was really good.

[00:25:53] any really harsh criticism I give here, take it with that in, you know, in context.

[00:25:58] I'm just sad that the kiss wasn't as passionate as

[00:26:04] kiss, that's

[00:26:05] it was. It was an I Love Lucy Separate Beds kiss.

[00:26:11] Was it?

[00:26:12] There is a tenderness to it, though, like, uh, I think one of them puts their hand on the other one's chest in, like, a real moment of, like, oh, that's more than just, like, a stage kiss, that, like, there was.

[00:26:24] Well, I like when Rogue, yeah, I like when Rogue wiped the tear with his thumb from, you know, the Doctor's cheek. There was just, we're gonna lock lips and we're not moving. There's no, no head movement. We're just gonna press really hard and then we're gonna come away. There's, there's no wetness. There's nothing. And it should be neat with both of them.

[00:26:52] There's still time. There's still time. There's unlimited time.

[00:26:56] Yeah, I, I, I, think, I mean, I, of all the four of us, I think I have really kind of hit this Uh, episode harder than, uh, I really wanted to, um, I did like it. I did like it. I wanted to like it more. Uh, I just, like John, you said, I really, Dan, I really, I wish I could see it through your eyes. I really, really, when listening to your description, I really wish I could see like the, the raw, raw moments and where for me, it was like, ah, it could have been More.

[00:27:30] It could have been more fun. It could have been, you got a character with the name of Rogue that didn't act roguish. That

[00:27:39] but it's definitely an affectation, like, I'm, I'm very sure that, like, the driving force of him taking the name Rogue is from the partner that he lost, and it was their dice and, like, he makes the joke roll for insight, but then, you know, the thing where he can't really improvise, like, I think that he maybe is doing it to honor the person that he lost even though he's not Rogue.

[00:28:03] It's not really that roguish. It's like the connection to the person we

[00:28:08] well I hope, I hope to see that spin off series because I do think Groff is, is excellent and a wonderful actor and really hot and so I could see the, the Doctor in his present form obviously is fine with commenting on, on, Other people, specifically men and their looks, uh, I just, you know, hearing that, that part makes me go, well, now I feel a little bit like bad that I've been bashing Rogue.

[00:28:41] I mean, he probably lost, he's probably trying to be the person who he lost.

[00:28:48] He's going through what The Doctor has gone through since 2005. Like, we keep using bi generation as like the new jumping off point for, Oh, The Doctor is now like the post-therapy Doctor. I think, I think the, the, the folks at Verity coined that phrase. But like, If you follow the path of The Doctor's romantic history, you know, obviously he tells Rose that he loves her, he is, uh, not only married, uh, to River, but, you know, they spend 24 years together, you know, and he comes out of that having um, understood relationships and a marriage and what that means and stuff like that and then, there was, you know, obviously, the uh, the the relationship that never was with with Yaz which was, you know, unfortunate that it didn't happen but I do think that that sort of like, train of events does add up and and, you you know, when he He doesn't approach Rogue just to necessarily put, you know, to put the moves on him or to hit on him.

[00:29:45] He's, he's following the signal that Ruby's getting the feedback in the earrings and he traces it there. But, you know, he starts by, you know, ribbing him, brooding. And I think that it's his natural playfulness and then, you know, Rogue is giving him nothing and then that little bit of back and forth like, uh, just the Doctor, just Rogue.

[00:30:06] Like, that's That's sort of the moment where they're flirting with each other. It wasn't just The Doctor trying to get to the bottom of, uh, the, the feedback sound. And he is also flirting, but that's when it becomes both of them, I think.

[00:30:20] that's a really good point. I hadn't, it hadn't occurred to me that, this is an evolution from where we left The Doctor last season with, she did feel something for Yaz. She admitted as such. but she wasn't, she didn't feel like it was something she could pursue, and this is sort of, progression there.

[00:30:37] And you're right, the 24 years on Derylium, that actually makes me view the whole thing in a different, light. Something that I was gonna bring up, like, for me, I'm gonna be a big stick in the mud for a second. it has never been my favorite thing in the new series when, they've gotten The Doctor romantically involved. I love The girl in the Fireplace, but I didn't like it then. River Song is a character and I like the idea, but I was always a little like,

[00:31:05] does The Doctor really love her in that way? Is And I've been trying to figure out why, and I think if I were to psychoanalyze myself for a second, like, you know, relationships, romantic relationships, and like, pursuing somebody. It's all very, um, it's very fraught and can be very stressful.

[00:31:21] And, There was something appealing to me, the idea that there was this character who was just completely unburdened by all of that. And I found that to be, very interesting. And then like, you know, you can get into the sci fi stuff of it all, where the Doctor is, this complex space time event, you know, his species sort of exists.

[00:31:44] on another plane. And, there's just something to me about the idea of the Doctor that to have them, get, you know, entangled in, romance and attraction, there's there's, there's something about it that, in a sense, diminishes the character because it makes them more relatable, more recognizable, and that's not necessarily something that I wanted.

[00:32:05] But that said, I know for a lot of, people in this episode in particular, this romance and the portrayal of it was incredibly significant and, and important, and I hesitate to even say anything negative about it because I don't, want to impugn upon that. I do like the idea, I do like and accept the idea that, you know, we're exploring how, what it really means to regenerate and become a whole different person. And, there is something about This doctor, like you were saying, John, this doctor has healed, this doctor is more youthful, more joyful, wears his hearts on his sleeve, guy, I'll, I'll bring it up before you do, he cried again in this episode, uh, which I don't think I would have clocked except, you kept mentioning it, so now, every time it happens, I'm like, oh, oh, oh, guy was right!

[00:32:57] And he cried a couple times

[00:32:59] yes,

[00:33:00] in the same episode.

[00:33:02] I think we're gonna get a reason for it. I think it's gonna tie into Ruby's backstory. Because it opened with him crying, like, I I have a feeling.

[00:33:13] well,

[00:33:14] What's the feeling?

[00:33:15] I mean, that's the feeling, like, we're gonna get some explanation as to why. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:33:20] I'm with you on that. I, I, I get the sense that it was, it was telegraphed in a very specific way at the beginning. It wasn't just like, here's your emotional doctor. Um, it's, it's in the same category as what is the, what is the snowfall about? Um, there's something, there's something that's, uh, bringing something, out of The Doctor or, or connecting The Doctor with that we weren't, uh, getting in previous versions and that's what I'm, uh, I, I think there's some mysteries.

[00:33:46] I'm just, I, I can't believe there are only two episodes left.

[00:33:48] Like how, how much are they going, and I know the next two episodes I think are going to be sort of a one two punch. I don't think we're getting any more filler, um, episodes or any, I should say, not filler, any one shot campaigns. That, also Dan, flawless.

[00:34:01] Oh, thank you.

[00:34:02] exactly. That is exactly now what I'm gonna refer to this episode as because it really is. Uh, I, I, I now DM as well. I'm obsessed with Dungeons and Dragons. Seeing that, I felt, I felt seen by the episode because it's like, oh, there's some queer stuff and there's some gay stuff in this episode.

[00:34:16] Oh my God, there's Dungeons and Dragons. The Doctor's referencing Dungeons and Dragons. Now I am fully realized as a person, like it was great. Um, and this, this, this, It does have that, you know, sort of feel and now I think we're going back into, you know, the, the, the, the campaign's main story, uh, if you will, you know, and what that's, what is that going to be?

[00:34:37] I'm very excited for that because usually that's where, uh, Russell Davies, you know, tends to shine is when he gets to make the big reveal. I mean, I remember not expecting, uh, um, when Doctor Who first came back, uh, you know, Bad Wolf to be something bigger. It was just sort of like, okay, that's, that's a cool little thing there.

[00:34:56] And just, and just having the buildup to that was such a, was such a fun thing, uh, to have. And now we know that's part of the way TV is made now. Uh, and we certainly expect that from almost every season of Doctor Who, but, uh, I'm, I'm really, I'm really getting anticipated, you know, some like anticipatory anxiety, like, wait, what is this really going to be?

[00:35:15] what are we going to see? Who's going to make it through? And, uh, and what's going to happen? But The Doctor is different, both for a reason, but, but for a reason that lets, uh, The Doctor be more. And Josh, you're right on. It, it's, it's almost, it is uncomfortable to see because he, he, Uh, or they really got to transcend a lot of the human, um, difficulties, uh, banalities.

[00:35:38] Just, just, oh, the, the, ah, the annoyance of romance and dating. Because it is not just the, like, the, the fun flirting. We got the fun flirting in this, but it is, it's the ghosting. It's all the stuff that Toymaker literally refers to in that episode, which I love. I loved so much because you see he's like, Oh, the ghosting, the ignoring, all this other stuff.

[00:35:59] I'm like, Oh yeah, Russell Davies is writing from the heart here about that. So to see The Doctor brought to a more accessible level, um, is gonna be difficult. And I'm not sure that many, even of my favorite Doctors, could have pulled it off. I think that this Doctor, this actor, Can pull it off without it, without it becoming something that diminishes the Doctor.

[00:36:24] Uh, because that's the real danger, is that all of a sudden you bring the Doctor down to Earth, um, and they're not quite the Doctor anymore. Uh, even after all this, I'm like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, they're still the Doctor. This is, this is the Doctor. Uh, and also don't mess with the Doctor. That was another Through the line of this episode, you know, whenever you mess with your companions, that is the switch that will get The Doctor to go a little bit off the rails.

[00:36:48] We know that, and that's something that, that, that's certainly consistent. Uh, we know that. Right,

[00:36:56] all three of you. Um, and it leads me back to this whole, uh, you know, we don't, we, the Doctors, we see the Doctor at a more human level. Um, a more, um, emotional level. If the, if What, John, what you just said is true, and Josh, that, you know, what was uncomfortable was that he was more relatable.

[00:37:22] I found it very, I want to say trite, that at the end of the episode, after experiencing these emotions, and having, uh, like, what, for, uh, for what I know is his first real romantic kiss with, uh, a man. Wouldn't you go off to find him right then and there?

[00:37:44] Wouldn't you do, it,

[00:37:47] it suggested, it's

[00:37:49] kind of like, says there are as many dimensions as there are atoms in the universe.

[00:37:54] so get going.

[00:37:56] Yeah, well, yeah, of course.

[00:37:57] Dan, I just met you. And actually if you disappeared from your chair, I can guarantee that I would be like, hey guys, you know, well I'm sorry Dan just kinda disappeared. But

[00:38:08] we'll you'd be the only one, I think.

[00:38:10] Ha ha! I mean we'll, we'll, we'll get to it when we get to it. I mean, he's, he's probably safe in this weird dimension.

[00:38:17] But,

[00:38:17] keep the podcast going. We'll get to it later.

[00:38:20] I'm gonna go make some tea. and then they take a nap, but we'll get to them when we get to them.

[00:38:25] But that is very The Doctor, though. It's like, it's so funny because the dynamic of I have to keep moving forward is still present, but also I Like, uh, I'm gonna bring up the, uh, The Husband's a River song again just because it's my favorite episode of Doctor Who. But the, you know, the scene where River is, like, you know, the Doctor doesn't go around falling in love with people, like, he's not so small.

[00:38:54] And it's like, even the person who is, like, in love with the Doctor doesn't understand the Doctor because the Doctor does love her, You know like the doctor is aloof for a reason especially with the Capaldi doctor having you know a season and a half two seasons previous, you know, basically going around calling humans, you know, the stupidest beings in the universe type thing it's like we can't even deign to understand what the doctor thinks because That's what the doctor wants and the doctor can't The Doctor does fall in love.

[00:39:26] We've seen it before. It's, it's just, you know, sometimes it happens in a night and sometimes it happens over a season. Um, they're a complicated, they're a complicated character.

[00:39:37] that's a very good point.

[00:39:39] Though I will say That entire arc Matt Smith, I thought that we got a little bit more with River Song. A sense of The Doctor does have this deep well of romantic feelings, but doesn't know how to act on them. I thought that was actually an area where The Doctor was not, um, did not have mastery.

[00:39:57] Oh, there's another pun too. Um, it's something that, you know, the doctor's been running for a long time and that running gives the doctor, the natural inclination to be aloof. And, uh, you know, as any good therapist would probably tell you is, you know, there are reasons for that. And if, you know, you're probably not going to end up in a relationship as a result of you're always running and always trying to be aloof.

[00:40:16] And this is, uh, this is the first time saying, what if the doctor just goes for it? Uh, just literally goes for it. That was actually what this episode showed me, was that this Doctor just sort of said, was uninhibited. There wasn't any second guessing of, uh, which Matt Smith's Doctor and River, there was all this second guessing.

[00:40:36] There was this hesitation. Even though he literally knew, based on the reverse timeline, uh, that, uh, Well, they're going to get, there is this incredible relationship, there is all this, it's going to happen. Uh, and there was this hesitation. This doctor doesn't hesitate in that way, at least not on the emotional stuff.

[00:40:53] And that has, uh, drawbacks too, because that's why he got so angry and Turned very ruthless very quickly. You got a hint of that, uh, when he was standing on the landmine, you know, that, oh, that amount of energy he contains will take a chunk out of the planet. But it wasn't just because of the energy of the Time Lord.

[00:41:11] There was an energy building in him that was getting serious. And when Ruby was shot, it was, uh oh. So I, I think we're going to see that this Doctor is a bit more, uh, as Josh, you said that, you know, where's, you know, hearts on their sleeve, but it's also dangerous, in a way too, is, is that, you know, we've always seen what happens if the doctor's brought up to that line when their companion or somebody that they care about or love, uh, is in danger.

[00:41:34] Uh, and this could make this doctor the most dangerous of them all.

[00:41:39] Well, because he is he is emotional and. You know, John, you put it perfectly, he's uninhibited, which I think has to do with that, healing we referred to earlier, which makes it much more palatable for me, not that Doctor Who has to cater to my taste, nor should I expect it to, but, Guy, to answer your question, um, Dan, you said, the Doctor runs away, the Doctor moves on, that's what the Doctor always does. that made me realize this is maybe the first time he has really indulged and leaned into these feelings in such a hard way and was really pursuing something and then he lost it.

[00:42:13] He got his hearts broken and he almost had to lose Ruby because he was so gaga for, for Groff as it were. and

[00:42:21] You know, it, you know, it could have been, it could have been just a line. I mean, they, spent a lot of silence with him looking up at the receding spaceship. It could have been just like, I'm coming for you or coming, I'm coming to get you. If something, something that signified, okay, he's not just moving on

[00:42:39] I think the TARDIS is going to be working on this in the background, like the same way, uh, in Day of the Doctor, the Sonic was processing Would, but I was thinking Day of the Doctor also because of, uh, um, what said before, it's like, oh, you know, Matt Smith's doctor was second guessing the relationship, uh, with River even though he knew how it ended, but also that was pre Day of the Doctor, he was still dealing with all the emotional, you know, uh, time war, you know, hadn't gotten the resolution yet, so, you know, he, he was, he, in, in that one it's pointed out how immature the 11th Doctor is, and I think, you know, You know, when you're immature, you don't necessarily know how to express yourself in a relationship, or how to even be in a relationship properly, and then he got his, uh, closure with the Time War, and then with the Twelfth Doctor, you know, getting over his initial, am I a good man, it was, oh yeah, uh, here's my wife, I can actually, like, be the partner that she always wanted me to be, and it's, it, it, it, you know, the Doctor has a lot to, you know, Heal about, but let's be honest, even when you heal from any sort of trauma, you're never fully healed.

[00:43:48] So, like, you know, there was, there was the element of, um, uh, um, the human nature in this one. Uh, aside from, like, the idea of, like, the family of the, the bird folk and the family blood, but also, like, the, the, the way the Doctor, um, tore, like, you know, cruelly deals with the family of blood. Like, he's willing to do that to the, the shoulder.

[00:44:13] Is that it? Right? Did I say it right? Yeah, but like, how long do they live? 600 years, you know, good, plenty of time to suffer. It's like, yeah, he still has all those old scars and sometimes even when you're trying to be the best version of yourself, that part that you've tried to move on still, you know, it still rears its ugly head and I, you know, it doesn't excuse the Doctor's actions or anything like that though, but he was still the Doctor.

[00:44:38] He said, look, we need to get rid of them so they don't kill everyone, but we're also not Gonna kill them. And also, real quick tangent, this is the third episode of the season where someone steps in something they shouldn't. We had the landmine in Boom, we had the fairy circle in, uh, 73 Yards, and now we had the, the, the, the tri trap thing.

[00:44:59] I was like, either, either I'm looking into something here, or someone's got a bit of a foot fetish on the production staff. No, no, no judgment.

[00:45:10] Um, I just had a thought, so, I actually have two questions. I'm just going to say them out loud because my brain's clearly not firing on all cylinders today and I want to put it out there before it slips my mind entirely. But, um, number one, are we sure Rogue is human?

[00:45:26] I, I, I think he's not.

[00:45:29] because of his choice of music.

[00:45:32] oh, actually that's interesting.

[00:45:35] i, I do think though, um, that the, the line that Rogue says about, like, the new boss is strict about paperwork, I did notice on second viewing, That, uh, Johnathan Groff's back is the camera, and that may have been, uh, an ADR line, um, like, after they figured out, like, what the what's still to come type thing?

[00:45:56] Like, that that stood out a little bit to me.

[00:45:58] Oh, that's an interesting point. Is that the second mention of the boss or the third? So we got,

[00:46:06] The Meep talks about the boss,

[00:46:08] yeah, the meep talks about the boss and then

[00:46:10] doesn't the toy maker or am I?

[00:46:13] Maestro says something, you know, he's,

[00:46:14] The One Who Or, Oh, yeah. Maestro mentions it, right, right, right. Yes, I'm conflating the two. You have to wonder if the one who waits in the boss are the same, but I guess not because they wouldn't have two separate names. But anyway,

[00:46:25] I I think the Meep and, uh, and, um, Maestro are talking about the same person, presumably, and I fe I I I would like to think that Rogue is maybe working for, a more altruistic, uh, outfit, you know? Like, he could, he could be from, like, the 100th century version of Unit, for all we know.

[00:46:45] Yeah, that's true. Another thing you made me think of, Guy, when you said, as far as you know, this is the first kiss The Doctor's had with a man. something that I think has always been kind of, wondered about is, has The Doctor ever had any romances off screen, even during the classic series that we've just never, you know, seen.

[00:47:03] I mean, I know, during Five's run, there was a lot of, fan speculation about, you know, the relationship between Peter Davison and his companions. You know, maybe they had some kind of a polycule going on. I don't know. I don't know who. All of

[00:47:15] Well, I always fantasize that I was Turlough and that Speedo, and he came rescued me. Sorry,

[00:47:21] this Doctor Did say that he spent a hot summer with Houdini

[00:47:25] so.

[00:47:25] That's true, that's true. So, so, I don't think this was his first time, which then goes against the theory I was about to put out, which is that he's sort of acting very much like somebody often does with their first, uh, uh, Uh, it can be their first, their first, , gay experience, it can also be your first romantic experience, is that your initial reaction is to sort of run away.

[00:47:49] you have that interaction, you've, you've put yourself out there, and then you go, Oh no, that was too much, and you go right back. Uh, and, and that, that's sort of a little bit of the vibe I got from this, is that, um, but, but more on the metal level of where The Doctor is like, Oh, I'm getting hurt again, or I'm going to get hurt again.

[00:48:08] And I just got hurt thinking I was going to lose Ruby. And I think there's some avoidance in play here. And The Doctor is no stranger to avoidance. Uh, The Doctor is really, really good at that. Um, so that's, that's how I interpreted the, not just jumping in and being like, okay, where am I going to find Rogue?

[00:48:25] It's a, yeah, that's, that's happened in the background. There's going to be a plan within a plan on The Doctor because That's the Doctor. Uh, but he's not putting it out in the forefront right now because I don't think he wants to put it in the forefront. And Rubies could be the one, was the one, who's like, aren't you gonna go out and go after him?

[00:48:41] And I think she'll be the impetus to get a lot of things going. I think that's why the Doctor has companions, uh, in the first place, is the companions get the Doctor to do the things that the Doctor knows either need to get done or that they want. to do, but don't have the ability to do on their own, which is also a really beautiful way of like looking at a companion is that you have somebody in your life who brings the things out of you that you don't, can't do on your own, but then brings out the best ultimately, which is why I really, I don't know why I feel like they just instantly connected.

[00:49:15] Doctor and the Ruby, like they do bring out the best of each other. So like we said earlier, they're actually so good with each other that they both are able to do their own things really well. Um, which is why I love that she's cosplaying. And, uh, he's, wait, wait, what? That, what, that, that was, he was just like, yeah, just had it in mind, battle mode, I'm gonna do it.

[00:49:39] And, I love that, that they didn't go too over the top, like, okay, we have to make this as good as Matrix or something like that. It was just some cool, like, no, she was just fighting and doing the thing, but was also out of her body, like, oh, wait. The TARDIS is telling me what to do. I'm going to just do this and, oh, okay, I, I, I defeated, I defeated the TARDIS, uh, and will now pretend to be one.

[00:49:58] if, if psychic earrings were real, I would go get my ears pierced today.

[00:50:03] right, right. Uh, I thought that was, I thought that was another cool gadget to, to bring into the show and a new, uh, new, like, way of using, of using the TARDIS. That's just, that's just a The, the gadgets this season have been fan tastic, but the new Sonic is gorgeous.

[00:50:20] no, yeah, we got to see it a little more in this, in this episode. I feel like we haven't seen it all that much.

[00:50:25] Yeah,

[00:50:26] They're using it very sparingly, which I appreciate, but I like that it has, like, changeable face plates and stuff, too.

[00:50:31] Oh, yeah. And actually it looks like something that you could look at and have a readout on it. Instead of them going like, you know, taking

[00:50:38] that was always a bit Oh, oh, what, what, what, what are they looking at?

[00:50:42] Well, it's psychic. It was psychically displaying. I did love, I did love the 14th Doctor's Sonic having the, like, the holographic display. Like, I, I want them to keep doing that, truthfully.

[00:50:53] so much of that acting of the years is literally, remember, this is BBC money, we can't do anything. So yep, that, I got it.

[00:51:00] well, I did like

[00:51:01] when he, the little thing flipped down and he looked through it and that's when he saw the, the, the dice

[00:51:07] And that was also very, again, that that was meant to be very much within the period, it was almost a little like monocle coming down, you know, they're really, they're really on point this season with bringing the aesthetics into together for an entire episode, which is why this one was so much, was such a, you know, feast on the eyes, not just, and, and the cool Chuldur and their different, uh, uh, features.

[00:51:28] But this was, that's what Bridgerton is popular from what I understand is that it is this like feast for the eyes and the senses. Uh, and you got that in this episode and I was like, yeah, I want, I want to, I would be exploring this time. And you can totally understand why they would be back in that time, because that's a fun, Period to explore.

[00:51:46] Um, I, I also, oh, and a quick tangent on that. I loved how they made it relevant that Ruby's language and use of words was, was, was not fitting that the, the tus was not necessarily like translating her to sound. 19th century, uh, this is the, this was, uh, wait, I know what the word okay means now. Oops.

[00:52:06] Which is strange, though, because Emily is one of the Chulder. Like, so, a tiny detail I noticed on my second watch was that anytime one of the Chulder did the head turn and you heard the bones cracking, that's when they broke character. Like, it was literally a breaking sound, but they would do it and they would break character at that point. Again, this may just be me being a TV production insane person, but it's just something I noticed.

[00:52:33] but they

[00:52:34] those things are there, they're meant to be there for you to notice even if the general audience only gets it on a subliminal level.

[00:52:41] but they did the same sound. They did the same sound with Ruby when she was

[00:52:44] I did notice that and it didn't fit,

[00:52:46] Because she was cosplaying, she picked up on it, she knew what she had to do,

[00:52:51] knew the, she knew the movements, but did she know that we, the audience, needed to hear that sound?

[00:52:56] That's a sound design issue, that's not a Ruby

[00:52:59] it's

[00:53:00] and how fun is it that the idea is that the ultimate destructive weapon of the episode is cosplay, gone awry.

[00:53:08] Like,

[00:53:09] they're not there to conquer or take resources, or to dominate, per se. They want to be characters.

[00:53:20] They're running an evil an evil campaign.

[00:53:22] An evil, an evil campaign, and they just want to go full speed with that, and then they want to be the prime minister and the king, and they'll just leave a wake of destruction in their path, but it's literally for the purpose of play, which is the theme of the season, but what a fun villain, uh, to play.

[00:53:39] I hope we see them again. I do like them. I do like them as, as, as villains.

[00:53:45] I hope they're not one dimensional. Like, if they are brought back, I hope we see. It's kind of like the, the, uh, Slothine and Margaret. We finally got more Depth to, the Slovene, you know, later in the, the first, you know, the Ninth Doctor's series, what episode was that?

[00:54:02] Okay. Thank you.

[00:54:04] like, here's your story idea, do a Downton Abbey era episode and have them cosplaying in that era. You know, and just be like, oh, the cosplay aliens again. Like, they're just everywhere, all the time, when do they ever get enough of it? Like,

[00:54:19] Well, the ultimate would be for them to go to a sci fi convention and have them cosplaying as the cosplayers, and no one thinks The Doctor. Like, The Doctor doesn't exist as a TV show in the show, but like, The Doctor's being heroic and they'll be like, Stop it, you cosplayer. Just let these people play their game.

[00:54:39] Yeah.

[00:54:41] Brilliant.

[00:54:43] do any of you have any thoughts or observations that you came into this, wanting to say that you haven't yet?

[00:54:50] Well, I hope they bring Rogue back. I would like to see where this goes. Cause you know, uh, you know, turning the corner and running into somebody that you have had a, it would be a nice little, like, uh, comfortable moment. Let's see how he gets out. The doctor gets out of that. Um, I have a deeper appreciation for the episode now that I've discussed with the three of you, what you all saw and what I saw.

[00:55:19] I mean, it's a nice, it's, it's a nice, I, I, I, I can sit here and say that, I mean, maybe I was being a little too harsh and I would like to see, I have watched it twice, um, and I think that the third time will be

[00:55:31] The charm.

[00:55:34] And again, it should have been me,

[00:55:38] I don't disagree. I think it should have been you. I think that's my final thought.

[00:55:44] Talk about fanfiction.

[00:55:45] love

[00:55:46] you, Jon. Ship, ship me in that episode, dang.

[00:55:50] Don't forget, they've already filmed the second season, so Rogue may have already returned.

[00:55:56] well, he better, and he better return before, uh, this doctor regenerates.

[00:56:01] almost certainly. To get their chemistry, you

[00:56:04] know, just to get more of it. working. That is, that is, that is going to be my Critique of Critiques is that he needs to stop smirking in his return because that's what he meant when he said like, wow, it's because every line just had that little like smirk on it, which in the very beginning it was, oh, he's serious.

[00:56:22] Then it was just like, oh no, he's literally just trying to be serious. He's like a kid trying to be serious the whole time and about to break character. Um, and I feel like now it has to be like, well, now you're spending time in an alternate dimension, you know, and now you're gonna have to be a little more, uh, Probably a little more messed up, but ultimately pulled together.

[00:56:40] We'll see, we'll see,

[00:56:41] I did love when his facade TARDIS and you just hear the OH MY GOD from off

[00:56:46] I loved that. That was so great, because everybody's typical reaction is just like, oh my god, it's bigger on the inside, and his was just unbridled,

[00:56:54] Well, he even said transcendental, uh, dimension space, so, like, again, he's speaking the Doctor's love language at that point.

[00:57:02] yeah, that's an excellent point. No. Yeah, I don't think that that was coincidence like showing that that he's on the Doctor's level I think that they were aware of that, like, well, we need to make this someone who seems worthy of the Doctor's affection. Um, but next week we are back to UNIT and we're going to finally confront the mystery of Susan Twist and who she really is. I personally think she's the Vlynx. I think she's the Vlynx. No, I don't actually. That was a joke.

[00:57:35] Oh, she's the TARDIS. Or A

[00:57:38] hmm, yeah, me too.

[00:57:40] bummed that my Vlynx joke really didn't land, landed with a thud, that one. Um,

[00:57:46] Do you wanna do you wanna try another take of it?

[00:57:47] No, No, I really don't. I think that'll just add insult to injury but thanks for looking out for me. Uh, so yeah, so until next week, , we are TARDIS Rubbish on TikTok, please always remember to run fast, love hard, and be kind.