Dr. Mary Talley Bowden on Medicine, Patient Choice, and Speaking Up

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Welcome to Stories worth
hearing.

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I am your host John Quick.
Today I am joined by Doctor Mary

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Talley Bowden, a practicing
physician, founder of Breathe

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MD, author, and health freedom
advocate.

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Doctor Bowden has spent years
working directly with patients

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and became a prominent voice
during the COVID years based on

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what she was seeing first hand
in her medical practice.

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She is also the founder of
Americans for Health Freedom and

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the author of Dangerous
Misinformation, The Virus, The

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Treatments, and The Lies.
You may have also seen her

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recently on The Joe Rogan
Experience.

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Today we talk about her path
into medicine, what she

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experienced during COVID, why
she started Americans for Health

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Freedom, and what she hopes
people better understand about

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their own health.
I am glad you are here.

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Let's get into it.
Well, Doctor, welcome to the

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show.
I'm super excited you're on.

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This will be really fun to chat
with you today.

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Thanks so much for having me,
John.

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Well, this would be great.
So I kind of first stumbled upon

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your stuff a number of years
ago, but then I recently saw

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that you were on the Joe Rogan
Podcast.

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And ma'am, talk to me a little
bit about that before we dive

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into your work because the Joe
Rogan Podcast is like the

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biggest media outlet arguably in
the whole world and you got to

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go on that.
Tell me about your experience.

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What was it like?
Was it surreal?

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How was he just kind of give us
a little sneak peek of behind

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the scenes there?
Yeah, it was probably one of the

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most challenging things I feel
like I've ever done.

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Not that he was intimidating, he
was very warm and friendly, but

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just the gigantic audience was
very daunting.

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So prepping for that interview
was incredibly stressful.

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I brought one of my kids with
me, which was fun.

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We were in and out.
It wasn't a lot of socializing,

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it was just.
Yeah, but it was great.

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He was super nice, and his staff
was incredibly nice.

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And you know, the podcast takes
place in this strip center in

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this nondescript building.
You would have no idea that one

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of the most famous people in
America was doing all those

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podcasts there, but it was
great.

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That's awesome.
So take me back to kind of what

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made you first decide to get
into the to the medical career.

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You've had some really awesome,
I would think, successes and

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breakthroughs.
We're going to talk about your

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book here in a second, but what
made you first kind of step foot

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into the medical field?
Well, curiosity mostly.

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I loved science, I loved
biology.

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I I loved school.
I was sort of a nerd and, you

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know, I enjoyed studying.
I enjoyed the challenge of the

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material and I wanted a career,
so it all sort of came together.

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I It is very gratifying as a
doctor when you can, yeah.

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I don't save lives everyday, but
when you impact somebody's

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health in a positive fashion, it
is very gratifying.

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And, you know, one of my big
arguments with COVID was I

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wouldn't use the same treatment
over and over again if it wasn't

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working because that's just very
discouraging as a doctor to have

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your patients do poorly and end
up in the hospital.

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So if, yeah, I got highly
criticized for using ivermectin.

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But yeah, I wouldn't keep using
it over and over again if I

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didn't find it that it worked.
So you know, being a doctor is

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very rewarding when your
patients get better.

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Yeah.
You know, during COVID, it was

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probably, I mean, you were
taking a lot of shots off the

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bow and, you know, a lot of the
stuff that you took shots off

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the bow for.
Now folks have come back and

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said, oh, yeah, Ivermectin.
It actually did kind of work.

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I took ivermectin during COVID.
Talk to me a little bit about

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what that was like being in, you
know, your viewpoint.

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It's probably similar to my
viewpoint during COVID, but it

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wasn't popular in the media to
have that sort of opinion.

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What was that like being kind of
solo on an island by yourself?

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It was wild because I, you know,
I'm a mom.

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I was actually sort of working
part time.

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I just started a new practice.
I when COVID hit, I sort of

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thought, well, this really won't
affect me because I'm not in a

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big practice.
I'm not in the hospitals and

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didn't expect to get thrown into
it at all.

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So it was, I was blindsided by
the whole experience to say the

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least.
But yeah, I just saw so much.

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I've never treated that many
patients with a single disease

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in my career.
I I doubt I ever will.

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You quickly become an expert
when you see the same thing over

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and over again.
I mean, I ended up treating over

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6000 COVID patients.
So I quickly figured out what

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worked and what.
What was it in you that you

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know, because I think a lot of
folks would either, you know, be

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fearful or scared of the
pushback from the media or not

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want to kind of stand up in the
media for what you believe in.

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What do you think was that spark
inside of you that said, listen,

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I'm not going to back down to
this.

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I know it works and I'm going to
stand up for myself and my

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patients because most that's
hard to do.

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Most people don't do that.
Well, thankfully they attacked

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me so hard that I felt like I
had no choice but to fight back.

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I mean, literally, if they had
come at me much softer, I might

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not have fought back so hard.
But you know, they tried to

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destroy me.
I, you know, they went after me

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so hard, Houston Methodist
Hospital told the Houston

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Chronicle.
They were suspending my

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privileges for spreading
dangerous misinformation, and I

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found out through a reporter.
And so that was such a gut punch

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that I just just ignited a fire
in me.

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Plus, you know, I'm just seeing
so much first hand.

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I continue to see injured
patients in my clinic on almost

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a daily basis.
So it just keeps me going.

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It's very frustrating to me that
not more has been done or

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actually pretty much nothing has
been done to help the injured

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and hold people accountable for
what happened during the

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pandemic.
Is that have you seen the Trump

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administration RFK do anything
to kind of course correct the

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COVID vaccine or, you know,
vaccine scheduling or come up

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with ways to treat patients that
are having adverse reactions to,

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you know, taking the COVID
vaccine for one time and then 10

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boosters later.
Have you seen any sort of oh

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crap we need to help fix this
from the administration that's

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currently there?
Bread crumbs.

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So, you know, they've changed
the recommendations, they remove

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the EUA, they there's talk that
they're going to put a black box

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warning on the shots.
They're I'm not aware of any NIH

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funded studies to help the
injured.

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That's a huge frustration of
mine because I feel like I'm

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just sort of trial and error.
You know, I have doctors across

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the country that I communicate
with about what they're doing

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and we're doing the best we can,
but some of these patients are

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really challenging and we're
just sort of doing as much as we

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can.
But you know, the government

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should step in and and help the
injured.

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So one of the things you did,
which I thought was very

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inspirational, is you founded an
organization, Americans,

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Americans for Health Freedom.
Talk to me about kind of the why

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behind starting that and what
that organization does.

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Yes.
So there was a representative,

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Brad Pequet from Michigan who
suffered from myocarditis

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following the COVID shots and
young guy and he was tweeting

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about it.
And so I connected with him on X

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and I said, would you be willing
just to state that the COVID

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shot should be pulled off the
market?

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And this was two years ago, I
believe.

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And he wholeheartedly said yes.
And that just gave me the

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inspiration to build this
coalition of politicians who are

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just willing to all they have to
do is state that the COVID shot

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should be pulled off the market.
But that's a hard thing for most

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politicians to do, even if they
believe it, because it goes

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basically blackballs them from
big pharma donations.

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And then, you know, it's
becoming less controversial to

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say that, but especially back
two years ago, super hard to say

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that.
So that list keeps growing.

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And when politicians join the
list, they get they get free

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marketing from from me.
And I have a big audience on X

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and I try to support them on X
and get the word out that if to

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me it's a litmus test, if you
can say that publicly, that's a

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sign of integrity and courage.
So how, how big of a list are we

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talking about it?
Do we have a dozen on there?

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A couple dozen?
How?

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What's the list like as of
today?

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It's about 250.
We have three members of

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Congress, Marjorie Gilli Green.
Yeah, Dean, Ron Johnson, Thomas

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Massie.
We have the surgeon general of

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Florida, but we have a lot of
state representative state

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centers.
We have precinct chairs.

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We have school board members.
So it's a wide range of power

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positions.
So folks are going to be

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listening to this from all over
the US Could they go on there

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and what encourage their elected
representative to sign the

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petition?
How?

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What could they do to kind of
help spur this on?

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Yeah, that would be wonderful.
If you go to

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americansforhealthfreedom.org,
there's a pledge.

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It's very simple.
You could send the link, you

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could e-mail it to your
representatives, or you could

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publicly ask them to do it on X,
which is what I like to do,

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apply a little public pressure
to them.

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But yeah, if we can just keep
that momentum going, that would

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be great.
So you didn't stop there.

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You went on to write a book.
I think it's out on pre release

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on Amazon.
We're going to put the link in

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the podcast description.
Dangerous misinformation.

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Talk to us a little bit about
why you wrote the book and

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little sneak behind the curtains
on what what it's about.

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It's my tell all.
So it's, you know, I go into the

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gory details of all, all the
abuse and then, you know,

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patients stories and it's
unfortunately the story is not

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complete.
So I'm hoping they'll be a Part

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2 where I am ultimately
vindicated because I'm still,

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I'm still fighting the Texas
medical board.

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We did have a win against the
FDA, which was huge.

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The FDA, we sued them for
misinformation, for stepping

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outside of their bounds as a
government organization.

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They really interfere with the
doctor patient relationship.

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They put out that horse tweet
and they basically told people

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you should not take ivermectin
for COVID, which they're not

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allowed to do.
And we sued them and won, which

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is very hard to see the
government.

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So we're quite proud of that
victory.

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Yeah, Yeah, that's a huge deal.
I mean, most people, you know,

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government's got unlimited
amount of resources and so to

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win against them is a pretty
huge deal.

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What's your advice to folks that
are trying to make a difference?

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Because you know, you're, I
think the, one of the things I

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love about your story is you're
one person and you've made such

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a huge impact across the United
States and probably worldwide,

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had your message go in front of
millions and millions and

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millions of people because you
had a passion and a drive, not

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because you had some huge media
company behind you.

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So what's some advice that you'd
give to folks that are just

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stuck on trying to like, how do
they make a difference in this

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world?
It seems daunting at times.

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It's David versus Goliath.
There's a thousand of them with

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TV stations compared to 1, you
know, grassroots activists.

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So what's some advice you give
to folks that are just trying to

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figure out how to make a
difference?

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Well, one thing I learned is, I
mean, when when you are faced

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with a huge set back, let it
sink in and then fight back

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harder and you won't regret it.
But there, you know, it's always

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a low point before you get to
your high point.

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And just, you know, people are
scared to go to that low point.

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But it's how you respond to it.
And if you fight back hard, I

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have no regrets over.
I mean, it was very hard for a

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while.
Yeah, I was publicly smeared and

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I was embarrassed to go to my
kids school and it was it was

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really bad for a while, but if I
had just coward, I would have

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been, it would have been even
worse.

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So fighting back, speaking up,
we have your social media is our

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town hall now.
And, you know, for better or for

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worse, it's a great outlet for
speaking your mind, rallying

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other people to your cause.
And I would just say, you know,

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getting involved and it could be
as little as social media is

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what we need right now.
What do you think your ultimate

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goal is with this specifically?
Is it to have the government

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say, listen, we screwed up,
we're sorry, we'll try to make

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sure this doesn't happen again?
Is it to have it, you know,

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doctors in your, in your field
of practice or similar to be

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able to prescribe ivermectin or
those kinds of things in a

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situation like this?
What is your ultimate goal for,

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you know this, this movement
you've created Americans for

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Americans for Health Freedom.
What's your ultimate goal?

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Well, we need, we need to move
to a decentralized form of

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healthcare because what we saw
is when we've got we've got

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these bureaucrats controlling
everything.

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I mean, that's what we saw
during COVID.

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We had these doctors who weren't
treating COVID patients, telling

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everybody how to treat COVID
from the safety of their

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bedrooms over Zoom calls instead
of listening to the doctors that

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were seeing everything and on
the front lines.

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So, and that's because we have a
centralized healthcare system.

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We have too much reliance on the
government telling Americans how

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to manage their health.
But, you know, in terms of, you

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know, finite goals, I want the
shots pulled off the market.

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I want them to help the injured.
And I want people held

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accountable for what happened
during COVID.

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Well, those are some pretty
lofty goals.

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I hope you get to them that that
sounds like you got a lot of

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work to do still.
How do you state, how do you

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keep inspired Because you know,
you talked a little bit about

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how folks could make a
difference of themselves, but

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how do you keep going?
Is it your faith?

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Is it your family?
Is it a mix of both?

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Because I think it's, you know,
you've, you've had success,

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right?
You've created this

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organization.
A lot of people would just kind

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of like say, OK, that's great.
I'm going to go back to my

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normal practice now and kind of
live the quiet life.

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What keeps you inspired to keep
moving?

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It's funny, a week ago I told
somebody, I think I'm going to

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just put, you know, pull back a
little bit and just calm, you

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know, just go live a normal
life.

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And then something made me mad
and I'm like, I'm fighting

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again.
So what happens is I, something

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happens to me and then I get
riled up again.

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Or, you know, I have a patient
come in who is, I mean, I had a

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patient last week who got a
fourth COVID shot 2 weeks, six

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weeks ago.
So people are still getting

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these COVID shots and his health
has been completely destroyed.

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So people are still getting
these shots.

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The harm is still there still.
I'm still seeing the suffering

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on a regular basis.
And so that's what keeps me

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going.
Are you taking, is your practice

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taking patients from all over
the US or they'd have to

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physically be located?
Where are your practices?

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Yeah, unfortunately the the
laws, I have to see them in

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person for their first visit.
But I mean, I do have people

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flying from other places.
That's awesome.

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So you know, one of the things
that I think has stood out for

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me is, you know, you go on
these, I've seen you on numerous

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podcasts and those kinds of
things you got on Joe Rogan

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podcast.
Like we talked about before,

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what are maybe what is one of
your favorite moments so far

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being in the media or interviews
on, you know, Fox News or

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whatever it may be?
Give us one of your favorite

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moments so far as it relates to
be able to get your voice heard

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out there in the podcasting
world or in the news world.

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Well, a funny moment that was
just took me off guard.

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I did an interview with Tucker
Carlson and you know, he didn't

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graduate from college, but
before the interview, we were

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chatting and he just started
reciting also like Canterbury

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Tales from memory.
And I was like, how do you, how

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do you know Chaucer?
Like I just found out so funny

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that somebody that dropped out
of the college could recite

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Middle English Chaucer.
That's awesome.

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Well, I appreciate you coming on
our show. 20 Minutes here has

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gone by in a flash.
I want to encourage folks up

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with the link to the book in the
podcast description and the link

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to the Americans for Health
Freedom as well in the podcast

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description.
Doctor, do you have any last

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minute thoughts here before we
head off?

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I appreciate you for having me
on and hopefully we'll reach a

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broader audience, so thank you
so much.

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Well, thank you so much, Doctor.
We wish you nothing but success

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here and we hope you have a
great rest of your day.

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And I look forward to the
episode being out.

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Folks.
Like I said, the link to the

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book is in the podcast
description and the link to the

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Americans for Health Freedom is
also in the podcast description.

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And we hope you have a good day.
Thanks, Doctor.

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Thank you, John.