What Does the Coming of the Subjective Age Mean to Us?

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Good morning once again,
everyone.

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Welcome to the Culture of T
Nation Fellowship and thank you

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for joining us this morning.
We have founded in 1951 by Hydas

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and Veena Choudhury as a center
of universal religion and

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spiritual practice.
And in keeping with the spirit

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of unity and diversity, we honor
the spiritual traditions of

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diverse cultures and religions.
Today's talk is titled What does

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the Coming of the Subjective Age
Mean to us?

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The stock is going to be
presented by our own Santosh

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Krinsky.
Santosh, as many of you would

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know, has been studying
Shurabundo's writing since 1971

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and has a daily blog at
shurabundostudies.wordpress.com

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and podcast at Anchor dot FM
slash Santosh Dash Krinsky.

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These details are there in the
announcement that I sent out.

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Santosh decided at Sharbindo
Ashram from spring 1973 to

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winter 1974.
He is author of 17 books and is

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editor in chief at Lotus Press.
He is president of Institute for

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Holistic Education, a nonprofit
focused on integrating

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spirituality into daily life.
He has spent more than 48 years

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building and developing
infrastructure for publishing,

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distributing and educating about
the spiritual path of Shore

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Bindle, as well as developing
and guiding companies at the

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forefront of publishing books
and distributing books and

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products to support the natural
market as well as the

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metaphysical market in North
America.

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For more information about the
the writings of Sherbinder and

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the Mother, you can visit
lotuspress.com as well as visit

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the daily blog postings.
I've already mentioned the URL

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of that page and the web page
aurobindo.net.

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Before I hand over the screen to
Santosh, I want to read a poem

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from Doctor Adas Choudhury from
the collections The Rhythm of

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Truth, and this poem is titled
Know Thyself.

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The profound word of wisdom that
rings through ages declares

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unambiguously one supreme
message.

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Know the know the secret of
thyself, thy own inmost center.

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Discover in thy inner temple the
world's greatest wonder.

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In one tiny atom is reflected
the whole of matter, in one

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negligible drop is hidden the
mystery of all water.

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In a single leaf of the tree is
outlined its unique pattern.

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In a single line of a book is
contained its special design.

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So also in every finite soul
dwells the Infinite Supreme.

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In the inmost recess of the
heart shines the Eternal

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undemned.
To know the secret of the Self

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is the Master key to possess to
unlock the mysteries of being

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with sovereign ease and success.
To discover the Self of Self is

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the Master Light to attain that
dispels all darkness and doubt,

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the last harmony to regain
deeper than intellect and ego.

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The The Self is the principle of
unity, connecting man with man,

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each with all.
It is the bond of universality,

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deeper than conscious and
unconscious.

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The self is the center, super
conscious, uniting man with God,

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part with the whole.
It is the Infinite's unique

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focus.
To know the Self is to discover

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the unit, the individual's
unique mission, the purpose of

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the Divine in life, and the
secret of final fruition.

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Let's take a minute to meditate
on those words.

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Over to you, Santosh.
Thank you once again for doing

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this for us.
Well, thank you.

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It's it's always a pleasure to
join you and so many of our

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friends in the yoga for these
sessions.

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So thank you for the opportunity
to meet with everybody once

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again.
I have a little bit of a

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different plan this time than
normal, and that is that I'd

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like to present some kind of
concepts or ideas or

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observations and finish up a
little bit early and open it up

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to an interactive dialogue.
The age of reason and

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individualism which built modern
day society has been reaching

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what I would say are its limits.
We see that in many different

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ways.
Shrioro Bindo set forth the

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concept of the subjective age in
his book titled The Human Cycle,

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and I recommend to everybody, if
you really want to dive into the

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subject of the subjective age
and its significance, read that

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book.
He does a much better job than

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than I could ever do in terms of
organizing the mass of

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information.
And certainly in an hour.

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We can't dream of covering
everything.

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So what I thought would be
useful is not to try to cover

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the ground, but to focus on what
it means to us, how our lives

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are impacted, how we experience
what's taking place in the world

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today, and how that relates to
the transition to a new age of

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consciousness, the subjective
age.

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So the first question is what do
we mean by the subjective age

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and the word subjective?
A lot of us think, well, it's

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just our own individual
feelings.

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So everybody's right and
everybody's feelings are their

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own.
And there's no objective factual

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basis for anything.
And that's actually an

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inaccuracy.
There is an objective reality

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that we share and that we live
in, and the subjective age

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doesn't mean to abandon the
objective factual world of

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science or measurement or
mathematics or any of those

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things which we have tested over
time and determined to be

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reproducible and able to be
shared among people, whoever

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they are, wherever they in the
world, if they're willing to do

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the measurement, they can get
the same result.

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The idea that first people have
when they think about the

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subjective age and the
abandonment of the logical

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intellect and reason, which is
what that implies to them, is to

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create what we've heard in our
political arena are alternative

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facts.
We don't like the facts the way

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they present themselves in the
outer world, so we create

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alternative facts.
This is actually an attempt to

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retreat to an earlier phase of
human development, a phase where

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we're sort of sub rational or
infra rational and we're not

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moving beyond the rational,
we're moving backwards to a

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space where we just react.
It's all vital reaction.

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The, I guess the period early in
the 20th century, we saw a

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number of movements where
people, philosophers tried to

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develop something that wasn't as
constrained as the mental

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organized rational, fact based
society that we were living in

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that had started to become
encrusted with fixed norms.

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And so you see people looking
for the will to power, the

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attempt to go beyond the limits
of the mind.

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And this was misinterpreted to a
great degree.

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It was, as Nietzsche was saying,
the superior man is not bound by

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the rules of society.
And this was interpreted to mean

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that if you defined yourself as
a superior man, you could do

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whatever you're pleased and be
destructive or whatever else.

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That's actually not what is
intended by that.

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The superior man is the evolved
being who has gone beyond the

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strictures of the mind to
actually appreciate and

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understand the spirit for which
the rules of the intellect and

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the codes of the vital nature
were developed.

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In other words, to have a deeper
insight and not need to be bound

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by a rule because you're beyond
that rule in a in a very

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positive sense.
So quickly the idea of the

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subjective age is to move to a
new form of knowledge, a new

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form of knowing.
We see in and, and I'm just

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going to take us very briefly
into Sri Aurobindo's organized

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statement of the types of
knowledge and their relationship

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to the different ages of
humanity.

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So you have, putting aside the
very early ones, the symbolic

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stage, the one just preceding
the intellectual rational stage,

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was the conventional age of
society.

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And that builds institutions.
So we see the great churches of

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the world, we see the great
monarchies and empires of the

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world.
These are the fruits of the

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conventional age, and they're
ruled by authority, somebody who

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assumes the mantle of authority
and control and tells everybody

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what they should believe and how
they should relate to things and

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controls how things happen.
Now, initially that may have

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arisen naturally as people gain
certain new forms of knowledge

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and began to communicate it, but
eventually it became fixed and

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immovable and became a
limitation to further growth.

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The reaction to that was the
development of the, what we

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might call the rational or the
intellectual stage of

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development.
And their knowledge came through

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the use of the mind, through
reason and logic and development

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of science.
And so we saw in society the

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great battle between religion
and science, Religion saying you

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have to believe because we say
you need to believe this, and

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science saying, well, we want to
study and find out what the real

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underlying facts and truth are
and find out more or less for

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ourselves individually.
This worked up to a stage until

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it too became fixed and
immovable.

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And we got to the point where
people were bound by reason and

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logic to the extent that they
couldn't understand the spirit.

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We became law bound and we saw
that.

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If anyone has read Charles
Dickens Hard Times, there's a

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story there of a man who was all
like everything has to be

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measured and fixed and
mathematical and mechanical and

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organized and fixed rules and
ways of doing things.

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And this too became an obstacle
to further growth.

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And so we then come to what
Trior Robindo calls the next

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phase of knowledge, knowledge by
identity, because the other

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forms are knowledge through
separate of knowledge.

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It's I am the perceiver and I
perceive an object outside

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myself, but knowledge by
identity is I am one with the

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object of my knowledge.
So subject and object are one

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and you know it because you are
it.

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You vibrate with it, you intuit
with it.

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It's an intuitive inward form of
knowledge and that is the

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direction of the coming of the
spiritual and subjective age.

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So with that background, we can
then move to what is our current

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situation?
How do we understand the world

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we're living in?
What do we observe?

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We see in our political world?
Gridlock.

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Everyone is fighting with
everyone else.

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Nothing can move forward.
Everyone has their own opinion,

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their own way of looking at
things, and it's all stopped.

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And so things deteriorate
through gridlock.

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We see at the same time people
becoming frustrated and

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questioning the very framework
of Society, of religion, of the

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economy, the way the economy is
structured, the way we interact

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with each other and the way we
interact with the environment.

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We see very few people becoming
mega billionaires and we see 70

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or 80% of the people in the
world struggling to keep a roof

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over their heads and food on the
table and and live a decent

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life.
Somehow we've gotten out of

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balance, and that out of balance
is a sign of the limits of the

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rational, intellectual,
mechanical ways of the current

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age, and it's a sign that we
need to find a new way forward.

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We find that as much as we
believe in the intellect and its

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powers, and it's done tremendous
things in the world, it's

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uncovered the sources of
diseases and helped to cure

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them.
It's found how to create food

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for 9 billion people.
And it's found how to do so many

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things, explore the universe,
send people out into space and

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do so many things.
But we also have now begun to

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see what I call the law of
unintended consequences, which

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is that the mind is so limited
in its framework.

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It's linear and fragmented.
And as a result, every time it

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pushes forward, it doesn't see
the global impact and

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consequences of what it's doing.
And therefore it creates more

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and more unintended consequences
that we're living with right

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now.
Climate change, pollution, the

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collapse of the ocean, fisheries
and what that's going to do to

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billions of people on the planet
who rely on that as a primary

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food source.
The fact that scientists are now

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telling us we're in the midst of
the 6th mass planetary die off,

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the mass extinction event.
We have species disappearing

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every day.
And some may say, well that's

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OK, they're old fashioned
species, we don't need them

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anymore.
OK?

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I mean, who needs a rhinoceros?
That's you hear this sometimes.

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What is it all about?
Who cares?

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Well, the planetary die off also
includes things like bees.

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And we may not understand how
important bees are, but without

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bees, they're one of the major
pollinators to create the foods

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that we eat.
And if you ever saw one of the

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studies that showed what would
happen to our grocery store if

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there weren't bees anymore, you
would be shocked.

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In fact, we might all be on the
quick path to extinction

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ourselves.
So these type of pressures are

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forcing people to re evaluate
how they relate to their own

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lives and guiding them towards
this next evolutionary

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development.
The mass migrations, the wars,

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the suffering, the starvation,
the increased disease vectors,

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00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:40,080
the pollution, the climate
change, all these things

230
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together are creating the
pressure for change.

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00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:52,960
Sri Aurobindo describes that
nature tends to make its

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transitions under pressure, and
I think we all can relate to

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that in our own lives.
If things are going well, we

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just want to sit back and enjoy.
And yet at a certain point in

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00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:14,200
time when progress is needed,
things happen in our lives to

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00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:19,200
pressure us, to force us to get
up and do something and change

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the way we look at things.
And nature works like that.

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00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:27,600
So we're under this intense
pressure right now, which shows

239
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:32,160
us that it is time for a change,
for a transition to a new way of

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00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:41,920
seeing and dealing with things.
Now, we then come to the idea of

241
00:23:42,120 --> 00:23:47,840
what are the signs of the coming
of this new age, a subjective

242
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:51,880
age?
How do we recognize that this is

243
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:56,880
what's happening?
First of all, we see a breakdown

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00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:03,440
in reliance on external
authority, and we see people

245
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:09,400
rejecting the idea that
politicians, judges, religious

246
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:12,600
leaders can simply tell us what
to do.

247
00:24:13,120 --> 00:24:18,520
We don't want that.
We want to find our own truth,

248
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:22,480
our own inner truth.
We see a vast uprising, people

249
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:30,400
seeking for spiritual guidance,
for yoga, for new directions,

250
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:35,800
for direct relationship.
The mainstream churches are

251
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:41,360
undergoing a crisis and they
define the crisis as people are

252
00:24:41,360 --> 00:24:47,000
leaving the church and they're
defining themselves as

253
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:54,280
spiritual, not religious.
And that is a sign of the

254
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:57,840
subjective age.
People want to have a direct

255
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:03,520
experience.
In the 60s, they were given the

256
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:08,000
idea that they could have a
direct experience of God through

257
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:12,160
hallucinogenic drugs.
And so there was a big LSD

258
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:16,640
movement and mescaline and
peyote movement that took place

259
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:21,600
without judging people one way
or the other.

260
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:27,440
It's a sign that they wanted to
find what the reality, what the

261
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:32,240
truth was, without someone just
telling them that out of a book

262
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:41,760
or a classroom.
We see people seeking for a new

263
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:45,080
way of knowing things.
The alternative facts we

264
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:54,320
discussed at the beginning are a
fall back to an attempt to react

265
00:25:54,320 --> 00:26:00,400
more spontaneously to life.
But we also see a forward

266
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:08,000
movement with people looking at
developing a higher intuition of

267
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:14,680
trying to really understand what
the Nexus of life, what the

268
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:20,440
world is that we live in, how we
can be 1 human family within a

269
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:25,880
larger context of a world
environment and sharing the

270
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:28,680
planet with all the beings we
share the planet with.

271
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,320
You get a sense of unity and
oneness of connection.

272
00:26:33,120 --> 00:26:41,520
And these are signs in my mind
of the development of the

273
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:45,120
subjective age.
And when we get to the next

274
00:26:45,120 --> 00:26:50,320
section of our talk with sharing
with each other, I invite

275
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,880
everybody to share your
perceptions and insights along

276
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:58,240
these lines so that we can
together get a better and fuller

277
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:03,760
picture of things.
So let's look at some of the

278
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:10,080
forces at work in the world and
see how they're impacting this.

279
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:15,360
We all rely on the Internet.
We're having our get together on

280
00:27:15,360 --> 00:27:18,440
the Internet today.
It's brought people together

281
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:23,360
from all over the world.
You can see it as an advance

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00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:30,280
towards a deeper communication
and building of a net of oneness

283
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:35,760
between people.
And at the same time, the powers

284
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:41,320
that are resisting the change,
who have the control of the

285
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:47,040
past, are using the Internet to
become a weapon of manipulation

286
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:51,560
and control through the way they
feed information, the way they

287
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:58,280
skew information, and the way
they play upon people's emotions

288
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:04,240
through what they put forward
with massive amounts of power.

289
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:10,520
So the question is, how can we
understand the Internet and use

290
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:16,800
it as a positive force of
building a new consciousness?

291
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:23,600
And how can we avoid the snares
of the past masters of the

292
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:28,000
universe who want to enslave us
using the Internet?

293
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:36,480
It's an interesting question.
This will be a major task for us

294
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:42,320
as we can't always rely on what
we see anymore.

295
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:51,200
We have artificial intelligence
now and they have computers that

296
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:57,400
can recreate things and make
them look so real that we no

297
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:04,680
longer can use the adage seeing
is believing, seeing and hearing

298
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:12,560
our perceptive sentences.
Senses no longer tell us what

299
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:17,600
the truth is from the falsehood,
so how will we determine that

300
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:22,080
the mind, with its reliance on
the senses cannot do that?

301
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:28,480
And so we now come to the
question of can we develop an

302
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:36,000
intuitive sense that can
disclose the deeper inner hidden

303
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:42,440
truth behind the appearances
that our mind has become

304
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:46,160
ensnared in through the Internet
and through artificial

305
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:52,440
intelligence, we have quantum
mechanics.

306
00:29:54,040 --> 00:30:02,160
Physics has now gone beyond the
stage of the ability to measure

307
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:09,560
and define physical reality.
The deeper the physicists have

308
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:15,080
gone, the more they have
realized that matter is not

309
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:19,120
real.
It is energy, condensed,

310
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:25,120
solidified, brought down to a
vibration that holds it in a

311
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:32,280
form for a period of time.
And as they went further, they

312
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:34,880
started realizing that energy
isn't real.

313
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:43,560
Energy is consciousness, and we
have scientists today who are

314
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:49,320
deep in the field of quantum
mechanics, who talk about spooky

315
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:54,720
action at a distance, who speak
about quantum entanglement,

316
00:30:54,720 --> 00:31:02,480
where 2 things, whatever they
might be, separated from one

317
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:09,360
another, automatically react to
each other instantaneously at a

318
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:15,280
distance and without direct
physical or other observable

319
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:18,800
connection.
What does this mean?

320
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:24,120
How is this happening?
In a rational, logical,

321
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:28,240
mechanical world?
Such things can't not happen.

322
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:36,520
And now we have computers being
developed that no longer just

323
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:40,280
measure ones and zeros, which is
the rational, logical,

324
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:45,440
intellectual way to do it.
It's either on or it's off, one

325
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:51,360
or zero, on or off.
That's no longer the basis of

326
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:54,080
computing.
In the future, they're going

327
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:58,040
into what's called quantum
computing, and they started

328
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:03,120
using things called qubits,
which, without getting too deep

329
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:07,880
into quantum physics, basically
says that there is a

330
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:15,240
superposition where both on and
off are coincident with each

331
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:18,120
other.
And it's only at the moment of

332
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:24,160
observation that you can
determine which way the switch

333
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:27,480
has moved.
This is the famous story of

334
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:32,560
Schrodinger's cat, who's in a
box, and you don't know whether

335
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:36,360
the cat is alive or dead until
you observe the cat.

336
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:40,880
And so until the observation,
the cat is both alive and dead.

337
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:45,440
And they turn this into
computing now.

338
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:50,320
And now they've gone beyond that
to what's called Q modes, and

339
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:54,960
they have a computer now that
can solve in a microsecond

340
00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:03,000
problems that would take
standard 10 computers, 10s of

341
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:09,920
thousands of years to solve.
And they're able to do it

342
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:13,760
without the logic of the
rational intellect of ones and

343
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:15,840
zeros.
They've gone beyond that.

344
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:23,400
And this to me is a sign on the
physical plane, if you will, of

345
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:29,000
the kind of transitions that we
need to make as we move into the

346
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:36,160
subjective age.
Another sign of the of the

347
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:42,800
subjective age is actually what
I would call an opportunity.

348
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:47,400
It's space exploration.
And you say, well, how does

349
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:51,000
space exploration bring us to a
subjective age?

350
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:57,280
Well, our viewpoint on the world
is all based on each ego

351
00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:01,680
individual looking at the world
and relating to it from that

352
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:05,320
standpoint, and we don't see the
bigger picture.

353
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:12,840
But when you go outside the
earth and you see the Earth and

354
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:16,679
all of its beings and its
operations and everything else

355
00:34:16,679 --> 00:34:25,400
has one small, fragile, unified
existence, it automatically

356
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:31,840
changes your viewpoint away from
the ego standpoint to a more

357
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:40,120
unified global standpoint.
And we have reports from various

358
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:46,159
astronauts, like Neil Armstrong,
for instance, who came back and

359
00:34:46,159 --> 00:34:50,520
his life was transformed and he
went into the field of the study

360
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:56,760
of consciousness and how to move
beyond the limits of the logical

361
00:34:56,760 --> 00:35:03,440
intellect.
So now we come to what I would

362
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:07,600
call a negative sign, but an
important one.

363
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:13,560
Whenever there is a transition
from one structure to another,

364
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:16,960
from one age to another.
Just as we saw a conflict

365
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:22,680
between religion and science,
the fact that there is an ever

366
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:28,800
increasing resistance to change
is itself a sign that a change

367
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:35,280
is coming.
The powers that control the

368
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:41,720
intellectual, rational,
mechanical automation age of

369
00:35:41,720 --> 00:35:48,560
humanity feel threatened and
they are vital beings.

370
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:53,720
They, they feel the energy
change and they're trying to

371
00:35:53,720 --> 00:35:58,320
preserve their power.
One of the reasons they're now

372
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:02,600
trying to harness and control
the Internet and manipulate

373
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:07,840
people is for this reason, but
also the way they, you know,

374
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:10,280
they, they try to stop people
from voting.

375
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:12,920
They try to tell people how to
live their lives.

376
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:18,600
They try to control all the
finance and influence in the

377
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,560
world.
These are all external things,

378
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:26,440
but they are very big signs that
somebody doesn't like the

379
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:28,320
feeling of where things are
going.

380
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,280
They're afraid.
They're afraid they're going to

381
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:36,360
lose their power and influence.
And so this very resistance to

382
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:41,000
change is itself a sign that the
subjective age is coming.

383
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:48,560
It's pretty clear from my view,
and that's what we're going to

384
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:52,080
be sharing here in the next few
minutes, that the coming of the

385
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:54,520
subjective age is actually
inevitable.

386
00:36:55,680 --> 00:37:00,720
Human evolution, or the
evolution of consciousness going

387
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:06,000
larger than just the human,
moves in an upward spiraling

388
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:13,680
direction to increase the power
of consciousness over time and

389
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:19,280
through development.
So when we see physical and then

390
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:26,640
vital and then mental, we see
that there has to be a next

391
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:30,520
phase because the current phase
is reaching its limits.

392
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:37,600
And the pressures of the
existential crisis that we've

393
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:45,360
spoken about are more or less
forcing us to look within

394
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:51,000
ourselves to try to understand
why it is we're here, who we

395
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:55,280
are, what we are, what our lives
are all about.

396
00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:02,280
Or, as Hari Das Chaudhary so
beautifully said in the poem the

397
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:07,000
The Quest that we're really
seeking the self.

398
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:09,560
Who?
Who and what we really are.

399
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:17,720
The natural process of maturing
as a species has LED us to the

400
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:26,240
edge where we really can't go
much, if at all, further without

401
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:31,520
moving to a new way of knowing
and a new understanding of our

402
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:35,200
role in the universe and in this
creation.

403
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:41,640
And that is the inevitability of
the subjective age.

404
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:53,080
So with those thoughts and that
background, I wanted to engage a

405
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:57,360
dialogue here because we're, you
know, we're all guru by we're

406
00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:00,280
all learning and growing
together.

407
00:39:00,720 --> 00:39:06,920
And while Kundan has been kind
enough to ask me to participate

408
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:13,320
today, as far as I'm concerned,
we're all able and should be

409
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:17,560
able to share and develop this
further.

410
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:24,960
And so let's open it up.
Thank you, Santosh.

411
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:30,080
That was a wonderful
introduction to the dialogue.

412
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:32,880
I see Baman sand up.
So Baman, please come in.

413
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:39,320
You're on, you're on mute.
Please unmute.

414
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:44,480
Sorry about that.
Just wanted to thank you very

415
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:46,680
much.
It's just very intriguing and

416
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:51,560
and I think you covered a lot.
Sorry to jump in real quick here

417
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:55,080
because I need to leave at 3:00.
So I'm sorry for that.

418
00:39:55,080 --> 00:40:02,000
And now, but regarding the
question of how things are right

419
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:08,520
now, one possible way that I can
look at things is that I see.

420
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:11,800
Like to be broad categories of,
of, of people.

421
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:17,800
And I keep in mind that, you
know, even we're though we're

422
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:20,120
talking about collective
movements here, that there's

423
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:24,640
large individual differences
among human beings always.

424
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:29,040
So within these categories there
will be a lot of differences as

425
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:31,680
well.
But one category seems to be

426
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:37,400
that, you know, people who
embrace either evolution or

427
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:42,720
change or progress in general.
Now some of the cutting edge of

428
00:40:42,720 --> 00:40:46,480
these people may be actually
evolutionary thinkers and, and

429
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:50,720
even Mystics and so on.
And then some could be just, you

430
00:40:50,720 --> 00:40:54,720
know, modernist scientific
progress type of people and all

431
00:40:54,720 --> 00:40:57,960
of that.
And then the the other category,

432
00:40:58,240 --> 00:41:01,600
having been exposed to the
dilemma that's upon us right now

433
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:06,040
that you outlined very well,
seem to be reverting back to

434
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:09,200
mythical consciousness and to
religious consciousness and

435
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:15,400
conservatism and, and all that.
And a 1/3 category that I think

436
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:17,840
used to be smaller but is
increasing right now,

437
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:20,680
unfortunately, is the people
that are caught in between.

438
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:24,200
I don't know which way to go.
You know, they don't know if

439
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:28,440
they want to go back to probably
not, but they're unable to get

440
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:34,000
themselves together to create a
life situation.

441
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:38,080
Like you said, sixty, 7080% of
people are just trying to, you

442
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:42,520
know, live a decent life.
And if anyone fails in the

443
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:46,480
modern day, especially in
countries like the US, you go

444
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:49,680
down really quick.
So there's no chance to, you

445
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:52,480
know, sit down and and decide
what you want to do.

446
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:56,280
So that creates a kind of a
framework for mental illness.

447
00:41:56,600 --> 00:42:00,120
And that's what's what's, you
know, expanding.

448
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:05,080
And just one example of it is
despite all the decades of

449
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:08,400
treatment of depression, now
we're having, I know all these

450
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:11,720
drugs and, and methods for
having the most amount of

451
00:42:11,720 --> 00:42:16,080
depression and spreading into
the youth and, and the young and

452
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:20,520
the teenagers.
So having said all of this, I

453
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:25,240
just don't know which of these
forces are going to win and, and

454
00:42:25,240 --> 00:42:26,880
what's going to happen.
I just don't see the

455
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:29,320
possibility.
So I'm putting this out to the

456
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:33,480
group as well as a question.
I don't see one group winning

457
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:38,480
and, you know, settling the the
matter.

458
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:43,800
But I just wondered how how
these tendencies are going to

459
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:49,800
pan out and, and how they do to
me determines how fast we're

460
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:53,360
going to move into a subjective
age, at least for a certain

461
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:55,680
number of people.
But anyway, I just leave it out.

462
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:57,360
I don't have any particular
answers.

463
00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:03,760
Well, I'm very intrigued by your
insight here.

464
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:10,360
And at some point Trior Obindo
actually discusses this question

465
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:17,560
and points out that the attempt
to go backwards to a more vital

466
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:26,040
age is doomed to failure because
nature in and of itself wants to

467
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:30,360
move forward.
And so there will be

468
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:33,560
retrogressions, there will be
resistance and obstructions, but

469
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:37,200
eventually that transition takes
place.

470
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:42,400
And of course not every being
moves forward at the same pace,

471
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:48,280
as you're pointing out.
So there will be many people who

472
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:54,280
take each of the positions you
raised and it doesn't mean that

473
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:59,800
humanity as a whole hasn't moved
itself forward and that specific

474
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:05,200
individual souls who are
maturing haven't themselves

475
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:11,080
shifted their awareness.
It's a progression over time,

476
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:13,200
not sort of like an on off
switch.

477
00:44:26,890 --> 00:44:32,090
Yes, Michael, please come in.
Santos, thank you so much.

478
00:44:32,530 --> 00:44:37,560
I particularly appreciated your
introduction or for me

479
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:41,600
reintroduction of quantum
physics and the whole concept of

480
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:48,200
the pressure amounting pressure
in nature to produce change no

481
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:52,560
matter what forces may be up,
may be resisting it, but the the

482
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:58,240
nature seems to always win.
I notice that you use the word

483
00:44:58,240 --> 00:45:01,720
consciousness several times and
I usually when I'm in a

484
00:45:01,720 --> 00:45:04,120
conversation and people are
using the word consciousness

485
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:08,880
multiple times, I, I want to
know what they are, what, what?

486
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:12,400
And in this case, particularly
you, Santos, what what do you

487
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:14,800
mean when you use the word
consciousness?

488
00:45:17,720 --> 00:45:27,480
Well, consciousness is the
principle of awareness, and Rene

489
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:30,600
Descartes said that I think
therefore I am.

490
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:35,000
But that was a limited construct
of consciousness.

491
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:43,880
Awareness is larger than
thinking, and it can eventually

492
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:52,480
embrace the oneness of the whole
manifestation if you're looking

493
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:54,440
at the consciousness of the
divine.

494
00:45:55,600 --> 00:46:02,400
And if we associate ourselves
with that, we begin to shift

495
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:06,360
away from the thinking
consciousness to the larger

496
00:46:08,240 --> 00:46:16,480
intuitive or super mental or
whatever levels of awareness we

497
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:19,800
can move into over that
evolutionary period.

498
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:27,240
It's a very broad definition.
It's not like Descartes or

499
00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:31,880
Nietzsche or some of the others
who had very specific narrow

500
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:35,640
definitions.
This is generally awareness.

501
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:47,190
Thank you.
Wenji, please unmute yourself.

502
00:46:56,740 --> 00:46:58,460
Wenji, can you hear me?
Please come in.

503
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:12,640
Maybe I'm not able to reach him.
Michael, why don't you unmute

504
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:19,560
yourself and come in, please?
So my thoughts are along the

505
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:24,480
lines as Baumann brought up,
although he was referring to the

506
00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:28,160
individual level, I'm thinking
of the social level.

507
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:34,600
We would think that with all the
problems we're having globally,

508
00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:38,440
that a commonality of global
consciousness would be the

509
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:41,920
national response.
But we're actually seeing a very

510
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:48,320
different thing nationally.
I mean, to be liberal has become

511
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:52,040
a bad word or to be a globalist
is a bad word.

512
00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:57,600
You know, in this country we
have America first all around

513
00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:01,080
the world.
That sort of thought is emerging

514
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:07,800
in Hungary, in Italy, you know,
my tribe.

515
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:17,560
So we have this, this conflict
and you know, I, I wish, I wish

516
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:21,240
the future was as cheery, but
we're having some strong forces

517
00:48:21,240 --> 00:48:27,600
in the other direction.
I totally agree with you, and

518
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:33,200
that's why I tried to point out
that in a period of

519
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:40,960
difficulties, those who hold
power want to maintain their

520
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:46,680
power and resist change.
And they raise up fear of

521
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:51,880
transitions and change in the
people they can control and

522
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:56,920
manipulate with today tools that
have never before been at their

523
00:48:56,920 --> 00:48:59,760
disposal, like the power of the
Internet.

524
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:06,080
And so the resistance to change
is enormous, and it manifests

525
00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:08,920
itself in the ways that you're
mentioning here.

526
00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:14,760
And it just means that the power
of the change itself is also

527
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:20,320
enormous because you wouldn't
see that level of resistance.

528
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:23,640
For every action, there's an
equal and opposite reaction if

529
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:29,120
you look at the world of
physics, traditional physics.

530
00:49:29,720 --> 00:49:37,720
And so to me, that's a sign that
there's a powerful, as yet very

531
00:49:37,720 --> 00:49:43,880
much unseen power of change
that's taking place.

532
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:49,080
And you associate that with the
necessity of the change.

533
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:55,520
Because the mother once had a,
a, a brief saying it's truth or

534
00:49:55,520 --> 00:50:00,480
the abyss.
That's really the choice that

535
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:02,920
humanity will eventually have to
make.

536
00:50:03,240 --> 00:50:08,240
And the more stark and the more
resistant the forces are, the

537
00:50:08,240 --> 00:50:14,600
more they try to recapture the
past to prevent the future, the

538
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:19,360
more that stark choice rises up.
Because we're not solving it.

539
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:25,680
And at some point, we as a
species either have to decide to

540
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:32,000
survive or die.
And I guess my money's on

541
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:41,040
survival.
You know, I, I want to chime in

542
00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:45,560
a little bit here.
I feel that there's one positive

543
00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:51,120
movement which is occurring that
we have not spoken about, and

544
00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:55,680
that is the movement of
postmodernism in academia.

545
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:00,880
Postmodernism also has negative
sides.

546
00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:05,840
You know, we can definitely
dwell on those, but I feel

547
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:10,800
postmodernism contributing
immensely to what Shurban has

548
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:14,080
has called the coming of the
subjective age.

549
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:19,280
Why is that?
Postmodernism is critically

550
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:23,200
examining, you know, the age of
reasons and individualism.

551
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:30,320
So it's basically critically
examining the entire framework

552
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:37,000
and field of modernity.
Unfortunately, it has a

553
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:40,920
limitation.
It has, it has a limitation

554
00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:45,800
because after a certain point of
time it begins to define itself

555
00:51:46,240 --> 00:51:52,800
or it begins to get defined by
the same contours that it is

556
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:57,720
trying to deconstruct.
Let me explain.

557
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:04,080
You know, we said that it is
attacking the cornerstones of

558
00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:09,400
modernity, Objectivism and
objectivity is, you know, our

559
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:21,680
two major pillars of modernism.
Now, after it does its entire

560
00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:29,120
thing, and by that I mean the
deconstruction, it comes up with

561
00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:38,280
certain consequences or results.
Earlier, you know, we're looking

562
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:44,080
for truth, which was objective.
Now what postmodernism has done

563
00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:48,520
is that it has made truth
subjective, subjective with

564
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:53,560
respect to paradigms and
individuals, cultures and so on

565
00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:59,160
and so forth.
Now the problem here is that

566
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:03,320
when we say that truth is
relative, we are making an

567
00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:05,680
absolute statement about the
nature of truth.

568
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:10,600
When we are saying that that
truth is subjective, we are

569
00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:14,440
making an objective statement
about the nature of reality.

570
00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:21,280
So postmodernism takes us to a
particular point, but it is not

571
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:26,360
able to make the quantum jump
which is required to go further.

572
00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:31,840
And I personally feel that
within academia, after a certain

573
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:36,680
point in time, there will begin
to get a language developed

574
00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:40,760
which is talking about going
beyond the realm of subjectivism

575
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:46,760
and objectivism, beyond the
realm of relative and absolutely

576
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:51,120
and so on and so forth.
And that in my understanding,

577
00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:58,120
can only happen through a deep
subject, subjective exploration

578
00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:05,440
of the truth which is in which
is in common in communication

579
00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:07,320
with the objective nature of
reality.

580
00:54:10,720 --> 00:54:13,320
You know, there are there are
certain truths that are out

581
00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:19,440
there, but all of us individuals
are having our unique

582
00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:24,320
relationship with that nature of
reality and truth as well.

583
00:54:26,720 --> 00:54:33,280
You know, the from from the
Shurabindonian perspective that

584
00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:42,960
one reality begins to gradually
get broken into multiplicity and

585
00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:50,240
every component is in a unique
relationship with that ultimate

586
00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:56,240
that will in eventually will
have to be will have to be found

587
00:54:56,240 --> 00:55:01,000
out.
And for that I think, you know,

588
00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:05,760
postmodernism is making a
profound contribution.

589
00:55:07,720 --> 00:55:12,480
It has not been realized, you
know, at a greater level, but I

590
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:17,440
think it will be.
In fact, long time ago, you

591
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:23,680
know, right at the time when I
came to CIIS, I had written a

592
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:28,440
paper called Beyond Modernism,
the Meeting of the East and

593
00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:30,600
West.
You know, I sort of refined that

594
00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:34,720
and it got published as
relativism, self referentiality

595
00:55:34,720 --> 00:55:39,680
and Beyond mind.
I have, I have taken the

596
00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:42,720
approach of the philosophy of
science here.

597
00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:46,080
The results are very quantum
like.

598
00:55:46,200 --> 00:55:49,320
You know, I can, I can share
that article with the group.

599
00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:54,480
I'll do that, you know, maybe
tomorrow, but I think that, you

600
00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:58,040
know, that there is one very
positive movement which is

601
00:55:58,040 --> 00:56:06,120
occurring.
And if we really look at this,

602
00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:10,840
this trajectory, and if we also
begin to look very closely at

603
00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:17,200
the limitations of, of
postmodernism in order to not

604
00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:22,160
resurrect the paradigm of
modernism, we will be able to

605
00:56:22,160 --> 00:56:27,640
get into a framework which
transcends both modernism and

606
00:56:27,640 --> 00:56:29,680
postmodernism.
Or let me put it this way, you

607
00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:34,080
know, it's transcends and
integrates this binary divide of

608
00:56:34,080 --> 00:56:39,600
modernism and postmodernism.
And, and that is the future, you

609
00:56:39,600 --> 00:56:42,640
know, and that's, that's,
that's, this is a profound

610
00:56:42,640 --> 00:56:44,720
movement which is occurring in
academia.

611
00:56:44,720 --> 00:56:48,120
So with that, you know I will, I
will step back.

612
00:56:51,440 --> 00:56:54,160
So those I was wondering, you
know how you would respond to

613
00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:58,320
this?
Well, I totally agree with the

614
00:56:58,320 --> 00:57:05,760
idea that education and this
movement is part of the

615
00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:08,920
essential transition that's
happening.

616
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:16,240
Certainly there are many, many,
many signs of positive direction

617
00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:21,200
taking place in the world.
And of course, some are moving

618
00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:24,880
forward a lot, some are moving
forward a little bit, some are

619
00:57:24,880 --> 00:57:30,680
just preparing the ground.
But the the entire movement of

620
00:57:31,560 --> 00:57:36,680
education is somewhat mixed.
But the movement of individuals

621
00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:42,760
who are seeking for a deeper
truth, whatever path they choose

622
00:57:42,760 --> 00:57:51,160
to follow, is itself creating a
new paradigm for relationships.

623
00:57:51,720 --> 00:57:56,880
Whether it's the environmental
movement or the yoga movement or

624
00:57:56,880 --> 00:58:00,600
the spiritual movement or the
changes in education.

625
00:58:00,800 --> 00:58:05,880
They all are part of this larger
transition where people are

626
00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:11,520
seeking for something real and
authentic, not something that

627
00:58:11,520 --> 00:58:20,040
gets predigested for them by
elected leaders or church

628
00:58:20,040 --> 00:58:24,120
leaders or or others who have
assumed the mantle of authority.

629
00:58:24,120 --> 00:58:27,920
They want to actually experience
things for themselves and find

630
00:58:27,920 --> 00:58:31,560
out what their lives are about.
And that's happening all over

631
00:58:31,560 --> 00:58:35,880
the world.
Even if it looks like the

632
00:58:35,880 --> 00:58:40,480
authoritarians are winning,
they're not winning the hearts

633
00:58:40,480 --> 00:58:43,080
and minds of the people.
They're just controlling the

634
00:58:43,080 --> 00:58:46,920
outer machinery.
Right.

635
00:58:47,720 --> 00:58:52,640
And, and it will also depend
upon, you know, the, the vantage

636
00:58:52,640 --> 00:58:55,920
point from we are looking at
these things like, let's say,

637
00:58:56,160 --> 00:58:58,000
you know, let let's take one
more example.

638
00:58:58,000 --> 00:59:02,960
And this is very similar to this
conflict, you know, which is

639
00:59:02,960 --> 00:59:06,640
occurring between modernism and,
and postmodernism.

640
00:59:06,760 --> 00:59:11,840
You know, if we go back 200 and
200 years ago, there was this

641
00:59:11,840 --> 00:59:18,320
conflict between Enlightenment
and Romanticism, you know, and

642
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:25,040
of course, you know, this
conflict led to the the creation

643
00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:31,680
of two world wars.
And in terms of the

644
00:59:31,680 --> 00:59:36,120
consequences, you know, for
Europe, the results were

645
00:59:36,120 --> 00:59:42,000
absolutely devastating.
But what is the positive that

646
00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:44,240
came out of the Second World
War?

647
00:59:45,640 --> 00:59:47,760
Most of the colonies got
liberated.

648
00:59:47,960 --> 00:59:52,760
You know, most of the colonies
before in four years after the

649
00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:56,200
conclusion of the Second World
War, you know, most of the

650
00:59:56,200 --> 01:00:02,080
British colonies were liberated.
So there's, you know, there's

651
01:00:02,080 --> 01:00:06,440
this definite churning which is
going up going around at this

652
01:00:06,440 --> 01:00:09,840
point in time.
And I personally feel that you

653
01:00:09,840 --> 01:00:13,560
know that as the practitioners
of integral yoga.

654
01:00:14,120 --> 01:00:17,560
You know, we should be looking
at things, you know, from a

655
01:00:17,560 --> 01:00:20,760
cosmic perspective.
We will need to take into

656
01:00:20,760 --> 01:00:25,400
account many different that many
different vantage points.

657
01:00:26,120 --> 01:00:31,760
And I think that may, you know,
even intellectually give us a

658
01:00:31,760 --> 01:00:36,200
more comprehensive picture then
we may have at this point in

659
01:00:36,200 --> 01:00:37,280
time.
You know, of course, the

660
01:00:37,280 --> 01:00:41,160
ultimate is to go beyond the
intellect and sort of tap into

661
01:00:41,840 --> 01:00:48,040
this intuitive understanding of
things that Santosh brought out

662
01:00:48,040 --> 01:00:52,560
so eloquently.
So with that said, you know, I

663
01:00:52,560 --> 01:00:58,240
will just step back.
Arvindji, please unmute yourself

664
01:00:58,280 --> 01:01:03,360
and come in.
OK, Santosh, thank you for a

665
01:01:03,360 --> 01:01:08,680
very nice talk and giving us a
perspective on subjective age

666
01:01:09,320 --> 01:01:13,520
and see Arvind those ideas.
Yeah, my, my question is

667
01:01:13,520 --> 01:01:16,720
probably related to little bit
what Kundan was telling in a

668
01:01:16,720 --> 01:01:21,640
larger perspective.
I think looking at a practical

669
01:01:21,640 --> 01:01:25,840
level, as some other thinkers
also have said, if you look at

670
01:01:25,840 --> 01:01:30,600
the centre of gravity of the the
population of the world, it is

671
01:01:30,600 --> 01:01:33,720
still at the conventional stage
or mythological stage.

672
01:01:34,680 --> 01:01:38,640
And still the the centre of
gravity has yet to move to the

673
01:01:39,320 --> 01:01:42,280
rational stage.
And there's no doubt that the

674
01:01:42,280 --> 01:01:45,560
ideal stage is subjective age or
age of consciousness.

675
01:01:46,280 --> 01:01:51,000
But looking at the current
situation, I wonder if many of

676
01:01:51,000 --> 01:01:53,360
the problems, whether it's
environmental problems or

677
01:01:53,360 --> 01:01:58,320
political problems or growth of
authority, authoritarianism, is

678
01:01:58,320 --> 01:02:02,400
it not related to that?
The forces want to regress in

679
01:02:02,400 --> 01:02:06,680
the sense that they want to move
away, regress from rationality

680
01:02:06,680 --> 01:02:11,520
to conventional stage so that
their control is not lost for

681
01:02:11,520 --> 01:02:16,960
the bosses.
So within the rational

682
01:02:17,040 --> 01:02:21,120
population itself, let's say if
the centre of gravity move to

683
01:02:21,120 --> 01:02:27,160
rationality and the whole world
is of more, more people in the

684
01:02:27,160 --> 01:02:31,440
rational level, within that
itself may not then be integral

685
01:02:31,440 --> 01:02:34,200
approach.
Rationality taken to highest

686
01:02:34,200 --> 01:02:37,160
level.
One can have the integral

687
01:02:37,160 --> 01:02:40,600
solutions for all the major
issues that the world is

688
01:02:40,600 --> 01:02:45,160
concerned about, whether there's
a food crisis or environmental

689
01:02:45,160 --> 01:02:48,680
issues and other things.
So is it not the first order

690
01:02:48,680 --> 01:02:51,760
that the world has to move to
become more rational?

691
01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:57,880
Moving to a subjective age looks
like a tall order and there's no

692
01:02:57,880 --> 01:03:02,680
doubt there's an ideal stage.
But what is the, what do you,

693
01:03:02,680 --> 01:03:05,640
what do you comment on the nest
city for moving the whole

694
01:03:06,000 --> 01:03:10,640
humanity going towards more
rational stage, a more rational

695
01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:14,520
level of consciousness?
Well, I would jump in here.

696
01:03:14,520 --> 01:03:23,520
I, I agree with your analysis.
First of all, and the, as I

697
01:03:24,040 --> 01:03:27,760
started to try to describe at
the beginning, I don't see that

698
01:03:27,760 --> 01:03:32,640
the development of a subjective
age means the abandonment of the

699
01:03:32,640 --> 01:03:38,440
rational intellectual powers,
but the application of them in

700
01:03:38,440 --> 01:03:43,640
the field where they can be
useful and the recognition of

701
01:03:43,640 --> 01:03:48,440
the place where they reach their
limits and need to be guided and

702
01:03:48,440 --> 01:03:54,240
tempered by the guidance of that
next level of consciousness.

703
01:03:54,880 --> 01:03:58,880
To the extent that the world is
still mired in the conventional

704
01:03:58,880 --> 01:04:07,040
stage, yes, they need the
rational, organized approach to

705
01:04:07,680 --> 01:04:10,640
create solutions that they can
live with.

706
01:04:10,640 --> 01:04:13,280
Not everybody moves at the same
pace.

707
01:04:13,920 --> 01:04:18,200
And as you rightly point out,
the center of gravity is still

708
01:04:18,200 --> 01:04:24,680
very much stuck in the
conventional phase, and there is

709
01:04:24,800 --> 01:04:29,640
pressure still between that
phase and the intellectual

710
01:04:29,640 --> 01:04:33,320
phase.
But the leading edge of the

711
01:04:33,320 --> 01:04:38,640
intellectual and rational phase
is meeting its limits and

712
01:04:38,640 --> 01:04:42,480
reaching its unintended
consequences, which means that a

713
01:04:42,480 --> 01:04:48,080
certain amount of that next
transition needs to begin to

714
01:04:48,080 --> 01:04:55,320
temper that, to utilize it, to
organize it, and to ensure that

715
01:04:55,320 --> 01:05:01,560
it's used in its right place as
a benefit and not simply allowed

716
01:05:01,560 --> 01:05:06,520
to create all those unintended
consequences we spoke about.

717
01:05:09,840 --> 01:05:10,400
Yeah.
Thank you.

718
01:05:18,970 --> 01:05:28,090
Yes, Berlin, Linda, please come.
In follow, following up on what

719
01:05:28,090 --> 01:05:34,880
Santosh just said, we, we have
to remember as, as Debashish

720
01:05:34,880 --> 01:05:41,120
said so wonderfully before this
group, that this is vijana, this

721
01:05:41,120 --> 01:05:46,880
is integral yoga.
And we have to do our best to,

722
01:05:47,640 --> 01:05:53,320
to hold those two things at the
same time to, to live in this

723
01:05:53,320 --> 01:06:00,600
world, to, to do what we are
instructed as best we can

724
01:06:00,600 --> 01:06:06,560
discern to do in this world and,
and still hold that cosmic and

725
01:06:07,040 --> 01:06:16,200
even transcendental view.
And in that context, I, I just

726
01:06:16,200 --> 01:06:20,800
want to remind everybody, as I
was recently reminded, that

727
01:06:21,560 --> 01:06:25,880
every four years doesn't just
bring an election in this

728
01:06:25,880 --> 01:06:29,480
country.
It it also brings a celebration

729
01:06:29,480 --> 01:06:35,760
of the supermental manifestation
on earth that that golden day

730
01:06:36,080 --> 01:06:43,640
celebrated on the 29th of
February when the mother, as she

731
01:06:43,640 --> 01:06:48,560
described it, pounded on the
golden door and, and things

732
01:06:48,560 --> 01:06:53,800
changed.
And I, as I've told some of you

733
01:06:54,720 --> 01:07:03,200
fairly recently, I, I, I
remember a day at the 20, let's

734
01:07:03,200 --> 01:07:10,400
see the 2011 ALM at Spiro Dendos
Adnapita, where an Aster Patel

735
01:07:10,400 --> 01:07:15,600
had a group of people at her
feet in the meditation room

736
01:07:17,360 --> 01:07:25,040
describing how substantially she
felt this super mental

737
01:07:25,280 --> 01:07:29,800
manifestation around her.
And it, it was transformative to

738
01:07:29,800 --> 01:07:33,720
me because I suddenly was aware
of something new.

739
01:07:33,720 --> 01:07:38,520
And it is, there is something
around us where we, we don't

740
01:07:38,520 --> 01:07:42,600
bear this burden on our own
individual shoulders.

741
01:07:42,800 --> 01:07:48,040
There's, there's, there's force
around us that we can and reach

742
01:07:48,040 --> 01:07:54,800
out and, and, and touch on, on
our, on our best days, perhaps.

743
01:07:54,800 --> 01:08:01,200
So just wanted to, to bring that
up following some somewhat

744
01:08:01,200 --> 01:08:05,920
intellectual discussion.
And it's all part of the same

745
01:08:06,640 --> 01:08:08,960
same weave, all part of the same
fabric.

746
01:08:09,960 --> 01:08:14,640
We, we need to address this in
so many different ways as best

747
01:08:14,720 --> 01:08:30,680
we're able, yes.
Hey, Margaret and Jim.

748
01:08:35,200 --> 01:08:40,560
Well, perfect timing, Earl.
I will.

749
01:08:40,560 --> 01:08:43,720
First of all, thank you,
Santosh, because it's such an

750
01:08:43,720 --> 01:08:49,160
important topic and how it's
approached is so important and

751
01:08:49,160 --> 01:08:52,840
you're your focus and how you
presented this and giving us an

752
01:08:52,840 --> 01:08:58,040
opportunity to weigh in.
And I'm following Earl on my

753
01:08:58,040 --> 01:09:06,279
perspective where Jim and I are
in a group, A Zoom group where

754
01:09:06,479 --> 01:09:14,960
we were just reading Chapter 22
in synthesis of yoga on Vigyana

755
01:09:14,960 --> 01:09:19,800
and Gnosis.
So just what Earl was saying and

756
01:09:19,800 --> 01:09:29,080
in that there's a discussion of
the intermediate steps from the

757
01:09:29,080 --> 01:09:36,560
rationale to beyond mind.
And I want to encourage all of

758
01:09:36,560 --> 01:09:42,240
us to share resources, whether
it be Shira Vendo or others of

759
01:09:43,120 --> 01:09:47,520
support for developing the
intuitive mentality so that we

760
01:09:47,520 --> 01:09:54,680
can take in these subjects like
the subjective age and the push

761
01:09:54,680 --> 01:09:58,200
back.
And as Earl was saying, stay in

762
01:09:58,200 --> 01:10:01,960
the consciousness of the
intuitive mentality so we can

763
01:10:02,400 --> 01:10:09,120
evaluate and take action from a
wider, higher consciousness that

764
01:10:09,120 --> 01:10:13,680
can supremely make a difference
and work collectively as well.

765
01:10:13,800 --> 01:10:19,360
So.
Thank you, Margaret.

766
01:10:20,560 --> 01:10:24,360
Before I invite Charles, you
know, I just want to read

767
01:10:24,360 --> 01:10:30,520
something from Shiravinder's The
Human Cycle Conditions for the

768
01:10:30,520 --> 01:10:39,960
Coming of a Spiritual Age.
And he says on page 233 of the

769
01:10:39,960 --> 01:10:44,280
book that I have.
And here the first essential

770
01:10:44,280 --> 01:10:50,720
sign must be the growth of the
subjective idea of life.

771
01:10:51,080 --> 01:10:53,600
And I personally feel that's
already occurring, you know, in

772
01:10:53,600 --> 01:10:59,920
the in the human civilization
and human collectivity, the idea

773
01:10:59,920 --> 01:11:09,120
of the soul, the inner being,
its powers, its possibilities,

774
01:11:10,040 --> 01:11:15,800
its growth, its expression and
the creation of a true,

775
01:11:16,400 --> 01:11:21,880
beautiful and helpful
environment for it as the one

776
01:11:21,880 --> 01:11:25,120
thing of first and last
importance.

777
01:11:27,320 --> 01:11:32,920
The signals must be there that
are precursors of a subjective

778
01:11:32,920 --> 01:11:35,840
age in humanities thought and
social endeavour.

779
01:11:39,240 --> 01:11:42,080
It may take time, you know, but
more and more people are

780
01:11:42,560 --> 01:11:46,280
gravitating towards these ideas
and they're doing things in

781
01:11:46,280 --> 01:11:53,400
their own ways.
Charles, over to you.

782
01:11:57,800 --> 01:12:02,120
Thank you so much, Santosh, for
bringing this particular topic,

783
01:12:02,400 --> 01:12:05,800
you know, to us today, this
morning or this afternoon.

784
01:12:08,400 --> 01:12:12,480
Something I was reflecting on on
as you were speaking and then

785
01:12:12,480 --> 01:12:15,640
sort of connecting and
meditating with.

786
01:12:16,240 --> 01:12:19,080
And then sort of goes very much
in the line of what Earl was

787
01:12:19,080 --> 01:12:24,320
saying and Margaret, that when
we think of Shrier Bindo, Shrier

788
01:12:24,320 --> 01:12:29,880
Bindo, when he was writing these
things, he was writing seven

789
01:12:29,880 --> 01:12:34,160
books at the same time and he
saw the picture.

790
01:12:34,840 --> 01:12:39,320
He didn't want to write about it
until he saw the whole thing and

791
01:12:39,320 --> 01:12:42,240
he was literally writing the
whole thing at the same time,

792
01:12:42,920 --> 01:12:46,720
right?
So he had this many sided view

793
01:12:46,720 --> 01:12:52,680
and connected with something
that was a deeper truth, which

794
01:12:52,680 --> 01:12:56,400
is what he writes about from the
consciousness he was

795
01:12:56,400 --> 01:13:00,040
experiencing.
The very gnosis that he's

796
01:13:00,200 --> 01:13:03,520
describing is something that he
was living in.

797
01:13:04,880 --> 01:13:09,840
And so I, what I was reflecting
is like for me to sort of take

798
01:13:09,840 --> 01:13:12,480
in something like this a
subjective age.

799
01:13:13,200 --> 01:13:18,960
Well, subjectively, how do I
ally myself with that very truth

800
01:13:18,960 --> 01:13:24,240
consciousness for which it's the
way that he actually sees all of

801
01:13:24,240 --> 01:13:29,720
this coming from, not from the
perspective of the human.

802
01:13:31,240 --> 01:13:34,840
And then the thoughts and the
mind and the emotions and the

803
01:13:34,840 --> 01:13:39,240
ignorance, trying to figure out
what the truth is, try to work

804
01:13:39,240 --> 01:13:45,480
it out somehow reach or use our
minds to sort of have concepts

805
01:13:45,480 --> 01:13:50,120
and think about it, but
connecting with our very highest

806
01:13:50,120 --> 01:13:56,720
consciousness first, where all
the problems are already not

807
01:13:56,720 --> 01:14:00,920
problems, they're sorted out
from there.

808
01:14:01,720 --> 01:14:06,200
When you see from that place of
calm, when you see from that

809
01:14:06,200 --> 01:14:11,880
place of truth where it's not a
question, it's not something

810
01:14:11,880 --> 01:14:14,440
we're struggling to figure out,
it's there.

811
01:14:15,560 --> 01:14:23,720
It is that from that space, we
are in a different position

812
01:14:23,720 --> 01:14:30,320
subjectively to sort of work out
even what Shri Rabindu is

813
01:14:30,320 --> 01:14:33,840
writing for our minds, right.
We have this nice, it looks like

814
01:14:33,840 --> 01:14:38,640
nice philosophy and you know,
scholar chomp into it, right,

815
01:14:38,640 --> 01:14:41,080
But it's that's not really what
it is.

816
01:14:41,600 --> 01:14:48,120
What it is is what is that truth
itself that is getting worked

817
01:14:48,120 --> 01:14:51,200
out.
And we I we yoke with that

818
01:14:51,200 --> 01:14:55,600
through yoga to our psychic
being to our highest

819
01:14:55,600 --> 01:14:58,120
consciousness.
That is possible.

820
01:14:59,240 --> 01:15:07,120
Maybe that is our job for us to
work out in as we trans.

821
01:15:07,280 --> 01:15:09,480
We are humans in transition,
right?

822
01:15:09,760 --> 01:15:16,440
It's like that that inner out
from the highest imagine it's

823
01:15:16,520 --> 01:15:18,680
it's done like you're in that
space.

824
01:15:18,680 --> 01:15:22,760
When I'm in that space, when the
when I feel that force down,

825
01:15:22,960 --> 01:15:28,000
there's not a there in a way,
there is no problem to speak of.

826
01:15:28,040 --> 01:15:33,280
It is all at once one truth 1
Ananda.

827
01:15:35,360 --> 01:15:40,160
So what would it be for us to
work from there to learn to

828
01:15:40,160 --> 01:15:44,280
connect with that and work the
other way and then to then from

829
01:15:44,280 --> 01:15:48,000
the, you know, really read and
understand what he's talking

830
01:15:48,000 --> 01:15:50,360
about.
It's a working out for the the

831
01:15:50,360 --> 01:15:53,640
race, but all of that is within
us.

832
01:15:54,080 --> 01:15:56,560
The resistances are inside of
us.

833
01:15:58,320 --> 01:16:02,000
It's in our parts of our being.
So it's sort of like.

834
01:16:02,280 --> 01:16:04,760
So anyway that a little bit of
the contribution when we talked

835
01:16:04,760 --> 01:16:09,480
about the subjective aids, I'm
thinking, no, me like my

836
01:16:09,480 --> 01:16:13,640
subject, like this other part of
me, this highest part of me.

837
01:16:13,680 --> 01:16:18,120
What if I put that in the censor
and work the way up?

838
01:16:18,120 --> 01:16:20,320
And then how do things look from
there?

839
01:16:20,960 --> 01:16:23,680
Because that's what Trier Bindo
did.

840
01:16:25,160 --> 01:16:28,280
He he, he wasn't coming from
working it out.

841
01:16:28,320 --> 01:16:30,120
He wasn't hacking his way
through.

842
01:16:30,320 --> 01:16:35,000
He saw it, He saw the vision, he
had it, the darshan.

843
01:16:35,120 --> 01:16:39,360
It was there and he was just
expressing it with words.

844
01:16:41,640 --> 01:16:44,160
But I really appreciate your
talk 'cause I think it really

845
01:16:44,160 --> 01:16:49,880
kind of inspired me to think in
a deeper way about this.

846
01:16:50,880 --> 01:16:53,440
Thank you.
Well, that's wonderful.

847
01:16:53,440 --> 01:16:59,560
And I have to say that the
reason I wanted to open things

848
01:16:59,560 --> 01:17:04,520
up today and not just be a
speaker was because we're all

849
01:17:04,520 --> 01:17:09,520
sharing this subjective
development that we're all going

850
01:17:09,520 --> 01:17:14,000
through.
And it's good to share that and

851
01:17:14,000 --> 01:17:18,560
not just have one viewpoint on
the table, so to speak.

852
01:17:20,480 --> 01:17:24,240
And I wanted to add one other
thought for for us to to think

853
01:17:24,240 --> 01:17:26,960
about.
The mother talks about the truth

854
01:17:27,120 --> 01:17:33,400
consciousness coming out and we
see in the world around us

855
01:17:34,040 --> 01:17:40,600
unprecedented exposures of what
used to be hidden underlying

856
01:17:40,600 --> 01:17:46,080
truths about everything being
manifested and being brought

857
01:17:46,080 --> 01:17:49,600
before our eyes so that we can
see it.

858
01:17:49,880 --> 01:17:54,520
And as you mentioned, Charles
said, what we see outside

859
01:17:54,520 --> 01:17:59,120
ourselves is also what we are
inside ourselves, that we

860
01:17:59,120 --> 01:18:03,320
vibrate to that.
And by seeing that, it's not to

861
01:18:03,320 --> 01:18:09,800
judge that badly, but to
internalize that and work to

862
01:18:09,960 --> 01:18:14,840
remove those resistances, to
harmonize those inconsistencies,

863
01:18:15,400 --> 01:18:22,240
to work through those falsehoods
within ourselves as we shift to

864
01:18:22,240 --> 01:18:24,760
that awareness that you're
speaking about.

865
01:18:24,760 --> 01:18:27,360
Wonderful.
I very much appreciate that.

866
01:18:33,910 --> 01:18:37,990
Barbara, please unmute yourself.
Thank you.

867
01:18:38,270 --> 01:18:46,640
Thank you Santosh for generating
this generous discussion and

868
01:18:47,480 --> 01:18:49,800
appreciated what everyone had to
say.

869
01:18:49,800 --> 01:18:57,240
And ending with Charles too.
Words often get in the way in

870
01:18:57,240 --> 01:19:02,320
different definitions, so I may
be giving different definitions,

871
01:19:02,320 --> 01:19:10,040
but first I think of kind of
generalize that we have three

872
01:19:10,040 --> 01:19:15,400
vehicles of intelligence,
emotion being one of them, and

873
01:19:15,400 --> 01:19:19,360
then body experience being
another, and they being related.

874
01:19:19,360 --> 01:19:24,360
Anyway, everything's related and
our minds take over so much.

875
01:19:24,360 --> 01:19:30,680
The thinking that the
experiential, which I understand

876
01:19:30,680 --> 01:19:36,080
the mother had a lot to do with
trusting the mystery, trusting,

877
01:19:36,080 --> 01:19:44,160
not knowing, trusting that
information is coming from in a

878
01:19:44,160 --> 01:19:47,960
different way.
And so this and ego has to stand

879
01:19:47,960 --> 01:19:53,000
back and listen from a deeper
perspective.

880
01:19:53,800 --> 01:19:58,200
So I just wanted to say that one
thing that I think is really

881
01:19:58,200 --> 01:20:02,760
positive in terms of the
evolution of at least this

882
01:20:02,760 --> 01:20:09,240
culture and I think and.
Hopefully, and in other places

883
01:20:09,240 --> 01:20:19,320
too, in in psychology, there's
now an A budding understanding.

884
01:20:19,320 --> 01:20:23,160
Most people aren't trained in
it, but a budding understanding

885
01:20:23,560 --> 01:20:32,480
is how people become more
superficial and how how that is

886
01:20:32,480 --> 01:20:35,160
different from someone who is
more anchored.

887
01:20:35,760 --> 01:20:40,240
And the anchoring comes from, I
mean, if we're lucky to have

888
01:20:40,240 --> 01:20:46,480
parents that can really see us
and feel us, it's different.

889
01:20:47,560 --> 01:20:53,280
What I'm, what I'm trying to get
at is it seems with social media

890
01:20:53,440 --> 01:21:00,800
and we have a culture so based
on grasping and owning and you

891
01:21:00,800 --> 01:21:06,760
know, those are real superficial
values and you know, the, the

892
01:21:06,760 --> 01:21:12,720
media amps them up.
And so apparently the, you know,

893
01:21:12,720 --> 01:21:15,840
we're all kind of on a
narcissistic continuum.

894
01:21:16,680 --> 01:21:18,520
You know, we need some
narcissism.

895
01:21:18,520 --> 01:21:25,960
So we don't stand in front of a
bus that's moving and and then

896
01:21:25,960 --> 01:21:29,800
all the way on up to very, you
know, unhelpful places for

897
01:21:29,800 --> 01:21:34,960
community.
And so psychology, at least some

898
01:21:34,960 --> 01:21:40,680
like lone voices, and it's
becoming more prevalent on a

899
01:21:40,800 --> 01:21:50,080
large level anyway, that the
culture doesn't understand that

900
01:21:52,520 --> 01:21:55,560
these people exist.
And they're very hard wired,

901
01:21:55,760 --> 01:21:59,360
often like a Mr. Trump, very
hardwired.

902
01:21:59,520 --> 01:22:02,840
He is not going to change.
And if he ever went to therapy

903
01:22:02,960 --> 01:22:06,840
or somebody, you know, midway on
the continuum, say went to

904
01:22:06,840 --> 01:22:11,800
therapy, they might be able to
make a tiny change that's

905
01:22:11,800 --> 01:22:16,200
temporary, you know, and would
have to watch it like a hawk,

906
01:22:16,200 --> 01:22:20,640
would have to really be like an
alcoholic that goes, that

907
01:22:20,720 --> 01:22:24,360
recovering alcoholic that goes
to meetings all the time and

908
01:22:24,720 --> 01:22:31,280
doesn't forget.
That's a real tall order.

909
01:22:31,640 --> 01:22:34,920
So to really understand who's in
the world.

910
01:22:35,160 --> 01:22:40,600
So we don't marry them, we don't
neglect them.

911
01:22:41,280 --> 01:22:48,200
So, and to get that there is a
superficial and depth difference

912
01:22:48,760 --> 01:22:51,600
to people.
And unlike James Madison

913
01:22:51,600 --> 01:22:54,640
apparently who, you know, had
everything to do with how our

914
01:22:54,640 --> 01:22:57,920
constitution would be
constructed, said, you know, he

915
01:22:57,920 --> 01:23:01,760
really warned, warned against
the what did he say?

916
01:23:01,760 --> 01:23:06,720
The morbidly rich and how they
will mess up a Republic and

917
01:23:06,720 --> 01:23:10,880
community.
And we, we are seeing that rise,

918
01:23:11,560 --> 01:23:14,800
you know, into the like 7 deadly
sins kind of place.

919
01:23:16,480 --> 01:23:23,800
And so perhaps we're becoming
just more educated in it and you

920
01:23:23,800 --> 01:23:30,480
know, not only from those in the
realm of consciousness, we're

921
01:23:30,480 --> 01:23:40,480
looking at this and then for our
own education, inter subjective.

922
01:23:45,720 --> 01:23:52,240
We're kind of learning how to
hold, you know, the OK we are

923
01:23:52,240 --> 01:23:54,600
the silence behind all the
moving notes.

924
01:23:56,440 --> 01:24:01,360
And the moving notes are made-up
of thoughts and feelings and

925
01:24:01,360 --> 01:24:05,560
sensations and a jangly nervous
system.

926
01:24:05,560 --> 01:24:11,480
Sometimes it's a tall order.
And I think also that we're

927
01:24:11,480 --> 01:24:14,480
really called to step it up, all
of us.

928
01:24:15,760 --> 01:24:18,640
Anyway, thank you everybody.
I really appreciated everybody's

929
01:24:18,920 --> 01:24:26,120
contributions.
I can't find my mouse.

930
01:24:28,440 --> 01:24:30,920
Thank you, Barbara.
Yeah, mute me.

931
01:24:47,720 --> 01:24:51,440
Seems like we have naturally
come to an end of this

932
01:24:51,440 --> 01:25:01,760
conversation.
Aparna, Andy, I'm seeing you

933
01:25:01,760 --> 01:25:04,280
here for the first time.
Do you want to chime in?

934
01:25:06,480 --> 01:25:09,760
Oh, nice to see some friends and
familiar faces.

935
01:25:09,760 --> 01:25:13,720
Thank you, Santosh.
I don't have anything to

936
01:25:13,720 --> 01:25:15,600
contribute.
Thanks for allowing me to be

937
01:25:15,600 --> 01:25:17,680
present and thank you for all
your thoughts.

938
01:25:18,280 --> 01:25:19,720
Thank you.
Thank you for joining in.

939
01:25:21,400 --> 01:25:24,640
Thank you very much, Santosh,
once again for this wonderful

940
01:25:24,640 --> 01:25:29,640
talk and the stimulation that
you created within the community

941
01:25:29,840 --> 01:25:32,240
for people to come forward and
share their thoughts.

942
01:25:34,440 --> 01:25:37,920
I appreciate it very much.
Thank you very much.

943
01:25:38,440 --> 01:25:40,200
Thank you everyone.
Thank you.

944
01:25:40,200 --> 01:25:42,640
Thank you, Santosh.
Thanks for any.

945
01:25:43,400 --> 01:25:46,000
Thoughts.
Good to see you.

946
01:25:48,520 --> 01:25:50,840
Thank you.
Thank you for for gathering the

947
01:25:50,880 --> 01:25:55,160
usual suspects.
It's been so marvelous to be.

948
01:25:55,720 --> 01:26:00,000
I'm going for more, trying to
buy more.

949
01:26:03,200 --> 01:26:04,440
Thank you.
Thank you, Linda.

950
01:26:04,440 --> 01:26:09,040
Thank you most everyone.
It's wonderful to see you all.

951
01:26:09,040 --> 01:26:09,200
Bye.
Bye.

952
01:26:09,880 --> 01:26:11,960
Bye bye.
I.