Oct. 28, 2024
Doubt and Faith: Resolving the Debate Between Science and Religion
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YouTube reference: Sri Aurobindo and the Mother, Powers Within, Chapter VI Faith, pp. 63-64 This episode is also available as a blog post at https://sriaurobindostudies.wordpress.com/2024/10/25/doubt-and-faith-resolving-the-debate-between-science-and-religion/
Video presentations, interviews and podcast episodes are all available on the YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/@santoshkrinsky871
More information about Sri Aurobindo can be found at www.aurobindo.net
The US editions and links to e-book editions of Sri Aurobindo’s writings can be found at Lotus Press www.lotuspress.com
1
00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:05,200
There has been a long standing
debate between religion and
2
00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:10,240
science centered around the
question of faith versus the
3
00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:13,720
search for truth through the use
of the mind and its powers.
4
00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:18,120
This raises several questions,
however, about the type and
5
00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:23,520
nature of the faith and the type
and nature of the mental action.
6
00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:28,440
There is no necessary or
irreconcilable division between
7
00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:33,120
them, but we need to understand
the situation more in depth to
8
00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:37,160
find the point where they
coexist and actually support one
9
00:00:37,160 --> 00:00:40,680
another.
It is clear that the mind and
10
00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:44,440
the mental process has its
specific powers and its clear
11
00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:48,560
limitations.
The mind is most competent in
12
00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:51,600
terms of its ability to
distinguish differences,
13
00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:55,280
organize and categorize them,
and analyze.
14
00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:59,360
It is less effective when
looking for overarching
15
00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:04,560
principles were first causes.
Even when it tries to develop
16
00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:09,040
some kind of principle, this is
generally based on experience
17
00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:14,040
and data it has developed to
date, and then this principle
18
00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:17,600
becomes outdated when new facts
become available.
19
00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:22,000
Thus, the world was flat until
it was round.
20
00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:27,280
The sun revolved around the
earth until the earth rotated
21
00:01:27,320 --> 00:01:31,960
and revolved around the sun.
The observations of the senses
22
00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:36,560
and the determinations by the
mind were based on incomplete
23
00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:40,800
facts, and thus inaccurate
principles were reduced.
24
00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:45,960
There are things the mind does
very well, but determining first
25
00:01:45,960 --> 00:01:48,960
causes is certainly not one of
them.
26
00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:52,400
We turn then to the process of
faith.
27
00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:57,400
In this case we find that faith
can either be driven by the mind
28
00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:02,440
and the vital nature whereby it
adopts a teaching, a dogma, or a
29
00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:06,040
specific movement or process
that satisfies a need of the
30
00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:09,960
mind for certainty and the vital
nature for inclusion and
31
00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:13,240
acceptance.
The books are written by men who
32
00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:16,720
are interpreting events with
their minds and then turning
33
00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:19,160
these things into articles of
faith.
34
00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:23,760
We then find dogmatic
interpretations and attempts to
35
00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:29,080
proselytize and convert others
because this is the one true
36
00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:32,080
faith.
Wars have been fought over these
37
00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:35,960
different interpretations and
many people have been tortured
38
00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:38,400
as a result of this type of
faith.
39
00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:42,920
True faith actually stems from a
different part of the being
40
00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:47,760
which Sriorobindo and the Mother
called a psychic being, the seat
41
00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:51,800
of the true soul.
The Upanishads refer to this
42
00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:55,560
true being as no larger than a
thumb and seated in the secret
43
00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:58,360
heart.
It is the source of the Mystic
44
00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:01,760
fire.
When it comes forward, it brings
45
00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:06,080
with it a deeper and truer
understanding and a burning
46
00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:09,280
flame of faith that is not
troubled by different
47
00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:12,960
interpretations, different
scriptures, different ritual
48
00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:17,520
practices, different emphasis
that the mind may have to offer.
49
00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:22,400
And it is not at all troubled by
the development of the mind and
50
00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:26,200
the growth of its knowledge.
This faith is not a matter of
51
00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:30,600
dogma, but a matter of
experience, which is in truth
52
00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:34,520
the experience of the Oneness of
the entire creation.
53
00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:39,880
It is this faith that actually
can intuit and understand deeply
54
00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:45,720
inwardly the principles and 1st
causes without turning them into
55
00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:51,000
weapons of debate with others.
This faith has no doubts as it
56
00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:54,920
is rooted in a deep and abiding
experience that is self-evident.
57
00:03:56,000 --> 00:04:00,280
It is this faith that needs to
be harbored and protected as it
58
00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:04,800
grows in the being.
This leads then to the personal
59
00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:08,560
effort needed.
The attention must be tuned to
60
00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:11,880
the psychic being which is
called aspiration.
61
00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:16,040
The distractions need to be
minimized and removed.
62
00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:21,680
This is called rejection.
In scientific terminology, we
63
00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:26,160
can say that we need to tune to
the signal and reduce the noise
64
00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:28,640
to strengthen the reception of
the signal.
65
00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:32,680
The third step is called
surrender, and this is
66
00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:37,080
essentially accepting and
responding to the signal without
67
00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:41,720
all the distractions, in other
words, locking in the signal
68
00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:46,720
without deviation.
The mother notes quote.
69
00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:51,240
Some people think it is a very
great mental elegance to play
70
00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:55,320
with ideas, to discuss them, to
contradict their faith.
71
00:04:56,120 --> 00:05:00,080
They think that this gives them
a very superior attitude, that
72
00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,480
in this way they are above
superstitions and ignorance.
73
00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:08,640
But if you listen to suggestions
of doubt and skepticism, then
74
00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:12,960
you fall into the grossest
ignorance and stray away from
75
00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:17,480
the right path.
You enter into confusion, error,
76
00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:22,040
a maze of contradictions.
You are not always sure you will
77
00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:26,560
be able to get out of it.
You go so far away from the
78
00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:33,680
inner truth that you lose sight
of it and sometimes lose to to
79
00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:36,080
all possible contact with your
soul.
80
00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:41,880
Certainly a personal effort is
needed to preserve one's faith,
81
00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:48,000
to let it grow within.
Later, much later, one day,
82
00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:52,880
looking back, we may see that
everything that happened, even
83
00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:56,920
what seemed to us the worst, was
a divine grace to make us
84
00:05:56,920 --> 00:06:00,320
advance on the way.
And then we become aware that
85
00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:03,360
the personal effort too was a
grace.
86
00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:09,240
But before reaching that, .1 has
to advance much, to struggle
87
00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:13,240
much, sometimes even to suffer a
great deal.
88
00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:19,360
To sit down in inert passivity
and say, if I am to have faith I
89
00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:23,200
shall have it, the Divine will
give it to me, is an attitude of
90
00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:27,960
laziness, of unconsciousness,
and almost of bad will.
91
00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:32,280
For the inner flame to burn, one
must feed it.
92
00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:36,920
One must watch over the fire,
throw into it the fuel of all
93
00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:38,800
the errors one wants to get rid
of.
94
00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:43,280
All that delays the progress,
all that darkens the path.
95
00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:48,560
If one doesn't feed the fire, it
smoulders under the ashes of
96
00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:50,600
one's unconsciousness and
inertia.
97
00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:57,640
And then not years, but lives,
centuries will pass before 1
98
00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:01,920
reaches the goal.
One must watch over one's faith
99
00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:06,880
as one watches over the birth of
something infinitely precious
100
00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:10,880
and protected very carefully
from everything that can impair
101
00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:14,880
it in the ignorance and darkness
of the beginning.
102
00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:19,800
Faith is the most direct
expression of the divine power
103
00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:22,240
which comes to fight and
conquer.
104
00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:27,040
End Quote.
Reference Sri Aurobindo and the
105
00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:33,920
Mother Powers Within, Chapter 6,
Faith, pages 63 to 64.
00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:05,200
There has been a long standing
debate between religion and
2
00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:10,240
science centered around the
question of faith versus the
3
00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:13,720
search for truth through the use
of the mind and its powers.
4
00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:18,120
This raises several questions,
however, about the type and
5
00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:23,520
nature of the faith and the type
and nature of the mental action.
6
00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:28,440
There is no necessary or
irreconcilable division between
7
00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:33,120
them, but we need to understand
the situation more in depth to
8
00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:37,160
find the point where they
coexist and actually support one
9
00:00:37,160 --> 00:00:40,680
another.
It is clear that the mind and
10
00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:44,440
the mental process has its
specific powers and its clear
11
00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:48,560
limitations.
The mind is most competent in
12
00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:51,600
terms of its ability to
distinguish differences,
13
00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:55,280
organize and categorize them,
and analyze.
14
00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:59,360
It is less effective when
looking for overarching
15
00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:04,560
principles were first causes.
Even when it tries to develop
16
00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:09,040
some kind of principle, this is
generally based on experience
17
00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:14,040
and data it has developed to
date, and then this principle
18
00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:17,600
becomes outdated when new facts
become available.
19
00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:22,000
Thus, the world was flat until
it was round.
20
00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:27,280
The sun revolved around the
earth until the earth rotated
21
00:01:27,320 --> 00:01:31,960
and revolved around the sun.
The observations of the senses
22
00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:36,560
and the determinations by the
mind were based on incomplete
23
00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:40,800
facts, and thus inaccurate
principles were reduced.
24
00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:45,960
There are things the mind does
very well, but determining first
25
00:01:45,960 --> 00:01:48,960
causes is certainly not one of
them.
26
00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:52,400
We turn then to the process of
faith.
27
00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:57,400
In this case we find that faith
can either be driven by the mind
28
00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:02,440
and the vital nature whereby it
adopts a teaching, a dogma, or a
29
00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:06,040
specific movement or process
that satisfies a need of the
30
00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:09,960
mind for certainty and the vital
nature for inclusion and
31
00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:13,240
acceptance.
The books are written by men who
32
00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:16,720
are interpreting events with
their minds and then turning
33
00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:19,160
these things into articles of
faith.
34
00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:23,760
We then find dogmatic
interpretations and attempts to
35
00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:29,080
proselytize and convert others
because this is the one true
36
00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:32,080
faith.
Wars have been fought over these
37
00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:35,960
different interpretations and
many people have been tortured
38
00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:38,400
as a result of this type of
faith.
39
00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:42,920
True faith actually stems from a
different part of the being
40
00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:47,760
which Sriorobindo and the Mother
called a psychic being, the seat
41
00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:51,800
of the true soul.
The Upanishads refer to this
42
00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:55,560
true being as no larger than a
thumb and seated in the secret
43
00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:58,360
heart.
It is the source of the Mystic
44
00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:01,760
fire.
When it comes forward, it brings
45
00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:06,080
with it a deeper and truer
understanding and a burning
46
00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:09,280
flame of faith that is not
troubled by different
47
00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:12,960
interpretations, different
scriptures, different ritual
48
00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:17,520
practices, different emphasis
that the mind may have to offer.
49
00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:22,400
And it is not at all troubled by
the development of the mind and
50
00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:26,200
the growth of its knowledge.
This faith is not a matter of
51
00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:30,600
dogma, but a matter of
experience, which is in truth
52
00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:34,520
the experience of the Oneness of
the entire creation.
53
00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:39,880
It is this faith that actually
can intuit and understand deeply
54
00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:45,720
inwardly the principles and 1st
causes without turning them into
55
00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:51,000
weapons of debate with others.
This faith has no doubts as it
56
00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:54,920
is rooted in a deep and abiding
experience that is self-evident.
57
00:03:56,000 --> 00:04:00,280
It is this faith that needs to
be harbored and protected as it
58
00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:04,800
grows in the being.
This leads then to the personal
59
00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:08,560
effort needed.
The attention must be tuned to
60
00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:11,880
the psychic being which is
called aspiration.
61
00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:16,040
The distractions need to be
minimized and removed.
62
00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:21,680
This is called rejection.
In scientific terminology, we
63
00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:26,160
can say that we need to tune to
the signal and reduce the noise
64
00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:28,640
to strengthen the reception of
the signal.
65
00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:32,680
The third step is called
surrender, and this is
66
00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:37,080
essentially accepting and
responding to the signal without
67
00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:41,720
all the distractions, in other
words, locking in the signal
68
00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:46,720
without deviation.
The mother notes quote.
69
00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:51,240
Some people think it is a very
great mental elegance to play
70
00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:55,320
with ideas, to discuss them, to
contradict their faith.
71
00:04:56,120 --> 00:05:00,080
They think that this gives them
a very superior attitude, that
72
00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,480
in this way they are above
superstitions and ignorance.
73
00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:08,640
But if you listen to suggestions
of doubt and skepticism, then
74
00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:12,960
you fall into the grossest
ignorance and stray away from
75
00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:17,480
the right path.
You enter into confusion, error,
76
00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:22,040
a maze of contradictions.
You are not always sure you will
77
00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:26,560
be able to get out of it.
You go so far away from the
78
00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:33,680
inner truth that you lose sight
of it and sometimes lose to to
79
00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:36,080
all possible contact with your
soul.
80
00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:41,880
Certainly a personal effort is
needed to preserve one's faith,
81
00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:48,000
to let it grow within.
Later, much later, one day,
82
00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:52,880
looking back, we may see that
everything that happened, even
83
00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:56,920
what seemed to us the worst, was
a divine grace to make us
84
00:05:56,920 --> 00:06:00,320
advance on the way.
And then we become aware that
85
00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:03,360
the personal effort too was a
grace.
86
00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:09,240
But before reaching that, .1 has
to advance much, to struggle
87
00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:13,240
much, sometimes even to suffer a
great deal.
88
00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:19,360
To sit down in inert passivity
and say, if I am to have faith I
89
00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:23,200
shall have it, the Divine will
give it to me, is an attitude of
90
00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:27,960
laziness, of unconsciousness,
and almost of bad will.
91
00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:32,280
For the inner flame to burn, one
must feed it.
92
00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:36,920
One must watch over the fire,
throw into it the fuel of all
93
00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:38,800
the errors one wants to get rid
of.
94
00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:43,280
All that delays the progress,
all that darkens the path.
95
00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:48,560
If one doesn't feed the fire, it
smoulders under the ashes of
96
00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:50,600
one's unconsciousness and
inertia.
97
00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:57,640
And then not years, but lives,
centuries will pass before 1
98
00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:01,920
reaches the goal.
One must watch over one's faith
99
00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:06,880
as one watches over the birth of
something infinitely precious
100
00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:10,880
and protected very carefully
from everything that can impair
101
00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:14,880
it in the ignorance and darkness
of the beginning.
102
00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:19,800
Faith is the most direct
expression of the divine power
103
00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:22,240
which comes to fight and
conquer.
104
00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:27,040
End Quote.
Reference Sri Aurobindo and the
105
00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:33,920
Mother Powers Within, Chapter 6,
Faith, pages 63 to 64.