Aug. 20, 2024
Addressing the Fallacy of an Individual Perfection in the Absence of Collective Progress
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YouTube reference: Sri Aurobindo and the Mother, The Hidden Forces of Life, Ch.8 Life — A Mass of Vibrations, pg. 186
This episode is also available as a blog post at https://sriaurobindostudies.wordpress.com/2024/08/15/addressing-the-fallacy-of-an-individual-perfection-in-the-absence-of-collective-progress/
Video presentations, interviews and podcast episodes are all available on the YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/@santoshkrinsky871
More information about Sri Aurobindo can be found at www.aurobindo.net
The US editions and links to e-book editions of Sri Aurobindo’s writings can be found at Lotus Press www.lotuspress.com
1
00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:04,800
We start from the ego
consciousness, and we treat
2
00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:09,960
ourselves from that standpoint
as independent, separate and
3
00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:15,240
walled off from all other beings
interacting with them, from our
4
00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:20,040
insulated status.
When we then turn to spiritual
5
00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:24,120
growth and development from this
standpoint, we start by looking
6
00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:26,800
at it as something that the
individual can accomplish
7
00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:31,200
regardless of the status of the
rest of humanity or the world as
8
00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:34,720
a whole.
As long as we remain active in
9
00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:38,760
the world, we are inevitably
part of the vital interchange
10
00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:43,320
that takes place, and we receive
vibrations from all those around
11
00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:47,360
us, and we send out vibrations
similarly to others.
12
00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:53,520
There is no way to avoid this.
The ascetic approach seeks to
13
00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:58,320
minimize this interchange, focus
the entire being on liberation,
14
00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:01,840
and involves essentially an
attempt to disconnect the
15
00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:04,360
individual from the rest of
human existence.
16
00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:08,120
Even this turns out to be
fallacious.
17
00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:14,000
No matter how isolated 1 seeks
to be, when the ascetic takes up
18
00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:18,600
the begging bowl to go into
society, he is involving himself
19
00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:22,480
in that interchange.
Even if he lives entirely
20
00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:26,960
secluded, he still carries with
him the sum scars of his birth
21
00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:31,960
and past lifetimes, as well as
the basic subtle energetic
22
00:01:31,960 --> 00:01:34,680
connection to all life around
him.
23
00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:40,080
Even at a considerable distance,
the impacts from the vital
24
00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:42,120
interchange in the world still
reach him.
25
00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:47,040
It may be possible to take this
interchange down to a bare
26
00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:52,040
minimum and thereby undertake to
eventually drop the body and
27
00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:56,040
liberate the spirit from the
body, but this is not part of
28
00:01:56,040 --> 00:02:01,600
what may be called mastery, but
rather a form of avoidance.
29
00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:08,199
There is a role to play for the
sannyasin, the ascetic following
30
00:02:08,199 --> 00:02:11,400
his spiritual path with one
pointed concentration, of
31
00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:15,840
course, and we can honor their
commitment to the quest.
32
00:02:16,640 --> 00:02:20,560
In a world steeped in
materialism and a fixation with
33
00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:25,720
the purely external, the
sanyasin provides a needed
34
00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:29,280
balance.
An individual may make
35
00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:32,200
considerable progress within the
framework of current
36
00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:35,360
possibilities.
Of course, there have always
37
00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:38,760
been individuals who have
focused their lives on spiritual
38
00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:44,240
development and who have become
great seers, rishis, sages,
39
00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:50,080
yogis or spiritual leaders.
And there may be exceptions to
40
00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:54,680
the general rule, particularly
in the case of individuals who
41
00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:59,120
have taken birth for the express
purpose of ushering in a focus
42
00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:03,160
on the next phase of
development, a process which has
43
00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:06,880
been called avatar hood by some
spiritual paths.
44
00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:12,400
Generally, however, their focus
is on the next step, so they are
45
00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:15,520
based within the current
capacity and framework of the
46
00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:20,760
society, even if out on the
upper edge of that capacity.
47
00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:26,080
Complete mastery can only come
when the seeker is able to
48
00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:29,640
handle all of the vital
interactions and process them in
49
00:03:29,640 --> 00:03:33,560
a way that maintains his
spiritual focus regardless.
50
00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:37,920
That is one of the core messages
we find in the Bhagwad Gita.
51
00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:42,560
Avoidance of the role in society
is not the answer to achieve
52
00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:46,800
mastery.
Rather, yoga is skill in works,
53
00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:51,880
and other statements make it
clear the road to mastery lies
54
00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:55,520
through the interactions and not
through avoidance.
55
00:03:56,800 --> 00:04:00,120
This brings us then to the
relationship between individual
56
00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:03,280
progress and the general status
of human progress.
57
00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:08,800
The individual may lead the way,
but without some amount of
58
00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:12,920
preparation and general
development, progress eventually
59
00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:15,880
reaches a point of stagnation or
standstill.
60
00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:23,640
Srioro Bindo refers to a process
of ascent and integration, where
61
00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:27,360
the ascent brings the connection
to the spiritual force that is
62
00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:32,280
evolving and the integration
brings it down into the life and
63
00:04:32,280 --> 00:04:35,240
makes it real at the level of
human existence.
64
00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:41,360
This process works both for the
individual satna and for the
65
00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:44,240
general process of evolution of
the society.
66
00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:48,920
The general progress creates a
more receptive field within
67
00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:51,280
which the individual can grow
and develop.
68
00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:56,120
There is a greater readiness,
there is less general opposition
69
00:04:56,120 --> 00:05:01,640
or friction, and as the general
capacity grows, the individual
70
00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:05,160
can use that as a platform for
his further progress.
71
00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:10,800
As the individual grows, his
influence back into the society
72
00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:15,720
helps the society achieve a
further status of readiness and
73
00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:18,520
preparation for its own
development.
74
00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:23,280
The 100th monkey phenomenon that
has been widely described
75
00:05:23,280 --> 00:05:27,320
represents this interactive
process of the individual
76
00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:32,440
leading the way, influencing
others, and eventually creating
77
00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:36,800
a new capacity within the
society, which presumably opens
78
00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:41,360
the door to next steps available
to the individuals who are
79
00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:43,680
aspiring toward greater
progress.
80
00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:49,800
A disciple asks, does an
individual mastery over desire
81
00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:54,360
suffice, or is a general
collective mastery necessary?
82
00:05:55,800 --> 00:06:00,480
The mother notes quote.
Ah, there we are.
83
00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:05,280
Is it possible to attain a total
personal transformation without
84
00:06:05,280 --> 00:06:07,400
there being at least a
correspondence in the
85
00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:11,000
collectivity?
This does not seem possible to
86
00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:14,200
me.
There is such an interdependence
87
00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:18,480
between the individual and the
collectivity that unless one
88
00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:22,000
does what the ascetics have
preached, that is, escapes from
89
00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:26,160
the world, goes out of it
completely, leaves it where it
90
00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:30,880
is, and runs away, selfishly
leaving all the work to others.
91
00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:35,440
Unless one does that, and Even
so, I have my doubts.
92
00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:39,680
Is it possible to accomplish a
total transformation of one's
93
00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:43,480
being so long as the
collectivity has not reached at
94
00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:46,400
least a certain degree of
transformation?
95
00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:51,200
I don't think so.
Human nature remains what it is.
96
00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:57,560
One can attain a great change of
consciousness that yes, one can
97
00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:02,920
purify one's consciousness, but
the total conquest, the material
98
00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:08,160
transformation, depends
definitely to a large extent on
99
00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:10,920
a certain degree of progress in
the collectivity.
100
00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:16,600
Bhuta said with reason that as
long as you have in you a
101
00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:20,480
vibration of desire, this
vibration will spread in the
102
00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:24,360
world and all those who are
ready to receive it will receive
103
00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:27,760
it.
In the same way, if you have in
104
00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:32,840
you the least receptivity to a
vibration of desire, you will be
105
00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:36,320
open to all the vibrations of
desire which circulate
106
00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:42,280
constantly in the world.
And quote reference Sri
107
00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:46,280
Aurobindo and the Mother, The
Hidden Forces of Life, Chapter
108
00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:51,680
Eight Life, a Mass of
Vibrations, page 186.
00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:04,800
We start from the ego
consciousness, and we treat
2
00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:09,960
ourselves from that standpoint
as independent, separate and
3
00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:15,240
walled off from all other beings
interacting with them, from our
4
00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:20,040
insulated status.
When we then turn to spiritual
5
00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:24,120
growth and development from this
standpoint, we start by looking
6
00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:26,800
at it as something that the
individual can accomplish
7
00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:31,200
regardless of the status of the
rest of humanity or the world as
8
00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:34,720
a whole.
As long as we remain active in
9
00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:38,760
the world, we are inevitably
part of the vital interchange
10
00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:43,320
that takes place, and we receive
vibrations from all those around
11
00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:47,360
us, and we send out vibrations
similarly to others.
12
00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:53,520
There is no way to avoid this.
The ascetic approach seeks to
13
00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:58,320
minimize this interchange, focus
the entire being on liberation,
14
00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:01,840
and involves essentially an
attempt to disconnect the
15
00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:04,360
individual from the rest of
human existence.
16
00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:08,120
Even this turns out to be
fallacious.
17
00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:14,000
No matter how isolated 1 seeks
to be, when the ascetic takes up
18
00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:18,600
the begging bowl to go into
society, he is involving himself
19
00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:22,480
in that interchange.
Even if he lives entirely
20
00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:26,960
secluded, he still carries with
him the sum scars of his birth
21
00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:31,960
and past lifetimes, as well as
the basic subtle energetic
22
00:01:31,960 --> 00:01:34,680
connection to all life around
him.
23
00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:40,080
Even at a considerable distance,
the impacts from the vital
24
00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:42,120
interchange in the world still
reach him.
25
00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:47,040
It may be possible to take this
interchange down to a bare
26
00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:52,040
minimum and thereby undertake to
eventually drop the body and
27
00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:56,040
liberate the spirit from the
body, but this is not part of
28
00:01:56,040 --> 00:02:01,600
what may be called mastery, but
rather a form of avoidance.
29
00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:08,199
There is a role to play for the
sannyasin, the ascetic following
30
00:02:08,199 --> 00:02:11,400
his spiritual path with one
pointed concentration, of
31
00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:15,840
course, and we can honor their
commitment to the quest.
32
00:02:16,640 --> 00:02:20,560
In a world steeped in
materialism and a fixation with
33
00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:25,720
the purely external, the
sanyasin provides a needed
34
00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:29,280
balance.
An individual may make
35
00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:32,200
considerable progress within the
framework of current
36
00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:35,360
possibilities.
Of course, there have always
37
00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:38,760
been individuals who have
focused their lives on spiritual
38
00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:44,240
development and who have become
great seers, rishis, sages,
39
00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:50,080
yogis or spiritual leaders.
And there may be exceptions to
40
00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:54,680
the general rule, particularly
in the case of individuals who
41
00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:59,120
have taken birth for the express
purpose of ushering in a focus
42
00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:03,160
on the next phase of
development, a process which has
43
00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:06,880
been called avatar hood by some
spiritual paths.
44
00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:12,400
Generally, however, their focus
is on the next step, so they are
45
00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:15,520
based within the current
capacity and framework of the
46
00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:20,760
society, even if out on the
upper edge of that capacity.
47
00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:26,080
Complete mastery can only come
when the seeker is able to
48
00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:29,640
handle all of the vital
interactions and process them in
49
00:03:29,640 --> 00:03:33,560
a way that maintains his
spiritual focus regardless.
50
00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:37,920
That is one of the core messages
we find in the Bhagwad Gita.
51
00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:42,560
Avoidance of the role in society
is not the answer to achieve
52
00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:46,800
mastery.
Rather, yoga is skill in works,
53
00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:51,880
and other statements make it
clear the road to mastery lies
54
00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:55,520
through the interactions and not
through avoidance.
55
00:03:56,800 --> 00:04:00,120
This brings us then to the
relationship between individual
56
00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:03,280
progress and the general status
of human progress.
57
00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:08,800
The individual may lead the way,
but without some amount of
58
00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:12,920
preparation and general
development, progress eventually
59
00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:15,880
reaches a point of stagnation or
standstill.
60
00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:23,640
Srioro Bindo refers to a process
of ascent and integration, where
61
00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:27,360
the ascent brings the connection
to the spiritual force that is
62
00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:32,280
evolving and the integration
brings it down into the life and
63
00:04:32,280 --> 00:04:35,240
makes it real at the level of
human existence.
64
00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:41,360
This process works both for the
individual satna and for the
65
00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:44,240
general process of evolution of
the society.
66
00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:48,920
The general progress creates a
more receptive field within
67
00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:51,280
which the individual can grow
and develop.
68
00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:56,120
There is a greater readiness,
there is less general opposition
69
00:04:56,120 --> 00:05:01,640
or friction, and as the general
capacity grows, the individual
70
00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:05,160
can use that as a platform for
his further progress.
71
00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:10,800
As the individual grows, his
influence back into the society
72
00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:15,720
helps the society achieve a
further status of readiness and
73
00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:18,520
preparation for its own
development.
74
00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:23,280
The 100th monkey phenomenon that
has been widely described
75
00:05:23,280 --> 00:05:27,320
represents this interactive
process of the individual
76
00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:32,440
leading the way, influencing
others, and eventually creating
77
00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:36,800
a new capacity within the
society, which presumably opens
78
00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:41,360
the door to next steps available
to the individuals who are
79
00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:43,680
aspiring toward greater
progress.
80
00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:49,800
A disciple asks, does an
individual mastery over desire
81
00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:54,360
suffice, or is a general
collective mastery necessary?
82
00:05:55,800 --> 00:06:00,480
The mother notes quote.
Ah, there we are.
83
00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:05,280
Is it possible to attain a total
personal transformation without
84
00:06:05,280 --> 00:06:07,400
there being at least a
correspondence in the
85
00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:11,000
collectivity?
This does not seem possible to
86
00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:14,200
me.
There is such an interdependence
87
00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:18,480
between the individual and the
collectivity that unless one
88
00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:22,000
does what the ascetics have
preached, that is, escapes from
89
00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:26,160
the world, goes out of it
completely, leaves it where it
90
00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:30,880
is, and runs away, selfishly
leaving all the work to others.
91
00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:35,440
Unless one does that, and Even
so, I have my doubts.
92
00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:39,680
Is it possible to accomplish a
total transformation of one's
93
00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:43,480
being so long as the
collectivity has not reached at
94
00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:46,400
least a certain degree of
transformation?
95
00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:51,200
I don't think so.
Human nature remains what it is.
96
00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:57,560
One can attain a great change of
consciousness that yes, one can
97
00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:02,920
purify one's consciousness, but
the total conquest, the material
98
00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:08,160
transformation, depends
definitely to a large extent on
99
00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:10,920
a certain degree of progress in
the collectivity.
100
00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:16,600
Bhuta said with reason that as
long as you have in you a
101
00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:20,480
vibration of desire, this
vibration will spread in the
102
00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:24,360
world and all those who are
ready to receive it will receive
103
00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:27,760
it.
In the same way, if you have in
104
00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:32,840
you the least receptivity to a
vibration of desire, you will be
105
00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:36,320
open to all the vibrations of
desire which circulate
106
00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:42,280
constantly in the world.
And quote reference Sri
107
00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:46,280
Aurobindo and the Mother, The
Hidden Forces of Life, Chapter
108
00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:51,680
Eight Life, a Mass of
Vibrations, page 186.