2013: Growing Globalization of Podcasts

0:02 Welcome to episode four of My Digital Life for June eleventh, twenty thirteen. I'm Rob Greenley and thank you for downloading or just clicking play to listen to this podcast from all over the world. I can be reached at Rob at Rob Greenley dot com or on Twitter at Rob Greenley. The show can be found in iTunes and Windows Phone podcast Area, Stitcher, and SoundCloud. Those are the last two. There are new additions to the distribution of the show. I also manage the podcast on Windows Phone, So if you have a podcast you would like to submit it to me and I can add it to the Windows Phone podcast directory. Just send it to podcasts at Microsoft dot com. Well, I want to share my digital highlights of the week here. I attended the cris Perillo Vlogger Fair this past Saturday. It's about five minutes away from my house. It's extremely convenient, and I've known Chris for many, many years, but it was really cool that it was so close to have a kind of like a YouTube, kind of digital media kind of kind of fair and event so close to my house. It's so unusual to see that. I usually I have to travel to Austin, or La or Las Vegas in order to get access to show a show an event like this. So it was great. It was a lot of fun. It was actually sold out. Chris sold about thirteen hundred tickets. Now, a lot of people that were there were to see the YouTube celebrities. There were certainly a lot of teen girls at the event to see those popular YouTube celebrities.

1:34 I certainly wasn't a geek event. It was really all about personalities and content, which I thought was really really fascinating. I typically go to more geek type of events, and this was an interesting change, and I think it's a little bit of a sign of the times of what's happening with media online. It's going a little bit more towards just being focused on content and personalities and less about the tech technology of making it all happen. The other big thing that happened this week is that another comedy podcaster hits the big time. I don't know if everyone listening to this knew this or not, but the new host of the Daily Show is a longtime podcaster.

2:17 He has a podcast called The Bugle. It's John Oliver and he's a He's a typical kind of correspondent with John Stewart on the show, and as of Monday, he takes over the hosting gig for three months from John Stewart. So another podcaster hits the big time. So if you wanted to go listen to John's podcast, it's at The Bugle, so go check out. It's actually a British comedy. His co host is in London and he's in New York and they call each other each week and talk about the news of the world and it's it's very well done and it's a it's a really popular show, so definitely go check it out The Bugle. The show show topic of the week that I'm going to cover this week is the growing globalization of podcasts and what that means for the future of podcasting. I'm going to share my thoughts, but I'm also going to have Karen Hogue, a longtime podcast consultant at podcastconsult dot Dk from Copenhagen, Denmark, on the show with me, and she's going to give me her real world experience from Europe. She has been a very active kind of representative of podcasting in Denmark and in the area of Europe and as a very early early podcaster.

3:35 And it's interesting to see if we can in such a big country as China and also Japan and Korea, the very big country countries, and they're all mobile, as you say, so there is a big, big, consumer based so competition there for all you Americans who think that you are the only people in the world. And I know I hear American to find out when they check the stats. Oh, I have listeners in Switzerland and Sweden and Korea and Australia, and you know, yes you do because we all understand English. It's for me, it's my second language. I don't speak it. I speak it as good as you know. We learn in school. So in i'd say in any country in Europe, they would be able to understand English.

4:27 That conversation is coming up a little bit later in the show, and it's about about eighteen minutes long. Well, let's dive into the topic of the week, the growing globalization of podcasting and what that means for podcasting's future. I wrote a blog post on my website at Rob Greenley dot com. I don't know that it will be up quite when this recording goes live, but it will be posted this week, so you can definitely go check that out. The summary of the article really gets down to some key areas, and I wanted to focus on the growing global future of podcasts. So what's happening is there's been some missing areas of focus in the podcasting space.

5:11 A huge one, I believe is the international aspect of podcasting. I know a lot of podcasters have had a lot of listeners in Europe and Asia, but I don't believe that a lot of the early podcasters or even the podcasters have given really much thought to the international aspect of what they do and what that future might look like. Based on how we as American podcasters produce our content. Shows that are being produced now in the podcast medium, at least coming out of North America are very US centric, and it's really kind of understandable that that happened that way, as most of the audience and the content is being consumed in North America, but in greater numbers that is starting to check. But what's really fascing about is if you talk to podcasters outside of the US, they are generally kind of polite about it, but most will tell you that they feel like that the podcasts coming out of the US are a little bit too American centric talking about you know, kind of you know, American holidays, American politics, American news, and that podcasters are going to be successful globally will need to be a little bit more kind of aware of what's going on around the world, and then also maybe just create their shows a little bit more generically and not spend time talking about local, country specific kind of activities that are happening in those

6:43 local areas. But there is a large number of podcasters that will find success in creating shows that we'll just cater to to that country or as I'm going to go into in greater depth here, focus on local languages, which is I think I think if you look into the future, I believe that language is going to be more important than topic. Though topic is it tends to be kind of local specific or culturally kind of relevant to the audience. But the whole aspect of language is huge, as most of the content that's being produced now tends to be in English, tends to be targeted towards cultures that are more favorable to the English language. Right, So there's many countries around the world that are dominant English speakers, but there's also many countries around the world that have English speakers, but they have a big population of people that the local languages is the primary method of communication in that language and that culture. So I think over time, what we're going to see is that that languages are going to start to dominate the success and the consumption of podcasts. If you were to ask me what are the largest and most common languages on the planet, you would probably say Spanish, Chinese or Mandarin and the English language.

8:18 Though those are important languages on a global basis, the whole language spectrum is much broader than that. The answer to this question and this issue that I'm raising here will help us get a glimpse I believe into the future of podcasts and maybe we're all on demand media consumption is going over the next five to ten years, and how important language is to the growth of online digital media. I want to run through a list of the top ten rank most spoken languages in the world. So if you look at the number one languages, Mandarin, which is basically Chinese over one billion, and number two is the English language, which is about is about over five hundred and eight million. The Hindu language is over five hundred million, Spanish is over four hundred million, Russian over three hundred million. Number six is the Arabic language with two hundred and fifty million. Number seven is the Bengali language with two hundred and fifteen million, and number eight is Portuguese with two hundred million. Number nine is melae in the Indonesian language with one hundred and seventy five million, and number ten is the French language with a one hundred and thirty five million. So over the last few years, podcasting has been fairly dominated by English language content coming from the US and England, Canada and Australia,

9:50 but with the growth of Europe and Asia, that dominance is really starting to change. The recent stats that we're starting to see come out as kind of like referring to that's by country, are breaking out into a little bit different mixed than what we've seen in the past. The top countries consuming podcasts over the past few months. The data and the ranking chart that I'm going to read you is from the largest podcast hosting provider in the world, and it's lipsyn at lbsyn dot com. They are actually owned now by a Chinese company of all things. So it's a little tidbit that will become a common thread throughout the rest of the show, but most people listening this would know that the number one country for podcasts is the United States. Number two is the United Kingdom, number three is Canada, and number four now is China.

10:42 Number five is Australia, Number six is Japan, number seven is Korea, number eight is Germany and number nine is Spain. Number ten is Mexico, number eleven is France, twelve is Sweden, thirteenth is the Russian Federi Federation and number fourteen is Singapore, and fifteen is Brazil. Number sixteen is Saudi Arabia, Number seventeen is of Italian and number eighteen is the Netherlands. Number nineteen is Thailand and number twenty is India's another huge country in the world. China is clearly the common thread that we're starting to see here. It has now broken into the top five, and Lipsen has, like I said earlier, has an association with China as it's now owned by a Chinese company, which I think is really kind of ironic as you're starting to see the trends start to move this direction. The other aspect of this is that the other languages are represented in this top twenty list that are not part of the top ten most spoken languages are Japanese, Korean, German, Swedish, the Italian language, Thai, and Dutch. So those are smaller languages that are pretty significant in the podcast area, that are not kind of huge languages on a global basis, but they are very important to podcasting. The current largest languages that are not represented in the top twenty country list is Malay in

12:15 the Indonesian language and Bengali, which are not significant players in the podcasting space today. And it could just be because of online access and they're not as strong and I'm getting online on the web and the internet either. This tells me that the largest languages are already having a big, big, significant impact on podcasting and is only going to grow over over time as more smart more smartphones and good wireless data access grows, you know, around the world. Because most of the top twenty here is represented in the top ten most spoken languages on the planet, there's a total of about seventeen language is here if you total them all up, the top ten plus the seven that I just mentioned here, so there's about seventeen languages that are important to podcasts today and they cover pretty much every continent on the planet. So you're starting to see those seventeen languages being really really important for aggregators podcasts aggregators on a global basis to support each of the people within those countries around the world will be able to get easy access and to be able to consume the podcasts that are being created either inside those countries or in other countries around the world. As you're starting to see, you know, many of the countries around the world become more global in their their languages

13:46 spoken inside those countries, getting access to media that will fulfill that that desire and that need is going to become more important to help them find content that fits with their their particular needs. The world of podcasting has really been centered around, you know, American focused content. I think that the rest of the world is starting to really catch up. The trend is really clear that within a few short ears, China will be the largest consuming audience for podcasts. The actual numbers are already starting to show that this is starting to happen. There's also been some other recent data that's come out that's showing that China has a significant kind of propensity to consume online content more so than even in the US. The mobile adoption is also significantly more in the time spent in the internet and mobile is even more so than in the USA. So those are the trends that I think are that are actually driving this. Also, many of the state run kind of radio networks in many of the countries started back in two thousand and five, back in the early days of podcasting, and there was a little bit of a scale down of that, but I believe that we're starting to see that starting to scale back up again, and it's being driven really by OEM's phone manufacturers and iOS and Android and Windows phone and starting to expand and grow in those countries around the world.

15:14 And I think it's going to be really important for podcasters to be more sensitive to the needs of international listeners because more and more podcasts are going to become a worldwide medium now. Podcasters have been pursuing distribution internationally for a long time. I believe that it's going to be important to non English speaking and non US centric topics in your program. So let's move on and do our conversation with Karen Hoague as she's going to expand on the whole topic of the globalization of podcasting. So let's play the conversation with Karen. She is a podcast consultant at podcasts dot Dk out of Denmark, and she's well known in the podcaster community, and she's going to share her thoughts on the growing importance of podcasts outside of North America. And we're also going to discuss the data that I've somewhat shared here at greater depth from her perspective, and also talk about how podcasts, how podcasters here in the US need to be able to reach a global audience and not offend that audience. So let's go ahead and play that interview now. Karen, Welcome to my digital life. Thanks for joining me.

16:33 Thank you, Rob. Karen is a consultant at podconsult at podconsult dot Dk and she's based out of Denmark and I appreciate you joining me. Where in Denmark are you located, Karen, I'm just curious. I'm in Copenhagen. I have my office here, I have my sound studio in a part of Copenhagen called Fredericksburg. I'm a very beautiful part of Copenhagen, so that's where I hang out during the day. Okay, Well, we go way back back to the early days of podcasting. I think we first met at the very first podcast Expo in Ontario, California, back in two thousand and five or so. That was a very exciting time, wasn't it. It was. I mean, everybody was there and it was so much fun.

17:16 I did my final thesis at the university about podcasting. I actually did my exam about podcasting. So I did interviews, I did empirics studies. I talked to a lot of interesting people, some of the first movers in podcasting. Do you remember Michael Gohagen. I do remember Michael Godegan, and he's not involved in podcasting anymore. Poor guys. When Alan Honken, the guy who had podcast dot com the domain, remember, he's still doing something with podcasting and audio definitely. So I did these talks with the first movers of podcasting, and then I did a report I think actually it was the first academic report about podcasting time.

18:07 So yeah, early days. Yeah, and it seems like we're kind of coming back into a time when podcasting is kind of coming into its own. I've seen this before. I seen I've seen this pattern happen before with streaming media back in the back in the early days of streaming were it was hot and everybody was all hot and bothered about it, and the media was all hype. And then there was this lull part for a few years through the dot com collapse, and it came charging back, you know, after we came out of the dot com collapse, and and and streaming is all the rage again now. So so I think the same pattern is happening in the podcasts. Now, absolutely, and a lot of people, you know, people who have moved into the new shiny objects of social media looking at me and said, what what she still doing with this podcasting? That's dead, isn't it? I mean, who's podcasting? And then what I know is that it's actually a growing medium. Maybe the people who who are fascinated with new techniques and new technologies are not too fascinated about podcasting anymore. But I must say, in my business, I see people coming in discovering in this new medium from all different angles. So and not necessarily people who are very familiar with technologies. That's not the reason why they do it. It's because they see a way to communicate with their people in their own niche so that's really my thing.

19:36 I used to do radio. I used to really love talking to people who didn't. Really have a voice. That was my goal with my journalism at the radio at the time. That's what I really like to do. And now I find myself doing that on a daily basis in my business. That's fascinating. Well, that's a good segue into what specifically do you do it? Podconsult dot DK. What's your podcasting business? I mean, what do you focus on? Yeah, right now, I have the sound studio. It's called Cosounds, so people can come in here and make the recording.

20:18 Today a guy was in here to do a recording for his company. It's a big construction company. It's e learning. It has nothing to do with podcasting. But and then I would have people do meditations, all kinds of audio recordings they can do here. But since I do my own podcast here and I bring other podcasters in here clients of mine, more and more people get curious about this. Oh, is that what it is they're they're doing this kind of radio? I could do that. I've just done a meditation. Maybe I could do could do an audio course or a podcast. So I kind of use it. To lure people in to podcasting. And then I also have a part of my business that's where I'm a retailer.

21:03 I sell equipment, say beginner's equipment for better audio on iPhone iPads. You can get all kinds of new microphones and extension cables so you can get better audio when you do video. That's a great need I find. So I have people coming in here every day to check out the equipment I have. I have a little showroom. Then we get a talk, we get to talk about, Yeah, what else do you do here? Yet? Well, I do some podcasting. Maybe that was so again, I do things to lure people in to maybe get them to start a podcast maybe and help make me help them do the producing or maybe even recording, or help them set their equipment up at home or whatever they want to do. So that is definitely growing. It's not something that I can say that I can live on. It's not it's it might be thirty percent of my income, but it's it's definitely a lot of fun.

22:08 So do you mainly do client work for for people in Denmark or are you working with people in other countries as well? You know, across Europe only Denmark only Denmark. Okay, yes, so so what is happening with podcasting in Denmark these days? Yeah? And the third thing that is growing also is that I help existing podcasters, people who've been podcasting for quite for quite a while, to optimize their own podcasts. You know, maybe maybe the image has fallen out of iTunes, maybe they've been using pod press and want to move to power press. And and just today I did a readirectory or one of a podcasts into two iTunes. You know, you have you can change your own feeds so you subscribers don't find out about the new that there is a new and stuff. So so the technology has changed over the years, and I've been been following all that, you know, I'm I'm following all the all the the podcasting experts outside of Denmark to bring that knowledge into my own business and and help people here. So so it's not just new podcasters I can help. I can also help the others who wants who want to carry on with that. And we have a good good group of podcasters are very very they're all there's it's just a very fun crowd of podcasters in Denmark. They're all

23:40 so different. I mean, I have one who podcasts about setting up a business in Russia, one about comics, one about comedian. We have comedy podcasts and all kinds of different topics and it's they're all very different. So so one of the big things I wanted to talk to you about was the kind of trends that I'm seeing around global podcasting and and and what's happening, you know, with that, and what the what the potential is for podcasting as you look at kind of outside of the US, which podcasting up to the last couple of years has been very kind of North American centric, but all along it's podcasting has been growing and it's been slowly developing in Europe and Asia, and I'm seeing some significant trends around some of the hosting companies, like a Lipsyn is starting to show some movement around podcasting growth, like in China and across a Europe. And actually I was able to see a top ranked list of the top twenty countries for Lipsyn as far as on podcast downloads, and one of the shocking things that I've seen here is that China is the number four refer of all podcasts at lipsyn. And then as you kind of kind

25:11 of move down the chart. The normal ones that you see in the top like the top five or the US, the United Kingdom, Canada, and now China's in there and Australia. Those are typically the ones that are in the top five. But China is a new entry and plus, yeah, I think that's really fascinating. And then number six is Japan and number seven is Korea, which are all relatively new into the like the top ten, and then eight is Germany and nine is Spain and ten is Mexico. So I'm seeing some shuffling going on there and it kind of raises it kind of raised that flag in my mind that maybe we're seeing a significant shift in consumption of podcasts. What's your thoughts on that they.

25:57 I have to ask you, are they podcasting in it or in say Chinese and Japanese or. I would think that that would be podcasts that are being consumed off of the lips and network, So I would say that they're probably mostly. English, Okay, So they're consumed in China, Yep, there's a big consumer okay, but not produced in China by Chinese. And I am seeing some new podcasts networks and you know, from the kind of state owned stuff too, start to produce really high quality audio and video podcasts, and I've been adding those to the Zoom podcast area and I've been seeing those and they're they're actually really really good.

26:44 So it's really interesting. You know, You've got a country that have has one point three billion people, that has and and actually the other big thing that I saw too, was that a research report about saying that China leads the US in mobile now and time spent on the Internet as opposed to TV. So the people in China are actually spending more time with the internet and mobile as opposed to TV than we even spend in the US. And yes, there is an iTunes store in Chinese. I cannot make sense of it when I open it by but I can.

27:28 See I can't at the same boat. But it's just it's really it's real fascinating. I've been running down through it and I couldn't even see where where it said podcast normally, you know, so you can have a look at the podcast. But I did click some and I can hear a podcaster speaking Chinese. So I'd say on a on a producer level, it's also growing in China. I know that we are very active when podcasting first came out, and it's interesting to see if we can in such a big as China and also Japan and Korea. They're very big country countries and they're all mobile, as you say, so they there is a big, big consumer base, so competition there for all you Americans who think that you are the only people in the world.

28:17 And I know I hear. Americans who find out when they check the stats. Oh, I have listeners in Switzerland and Sweden and Korea and Australia, and you you know, yes you do because we all understand English. It's for me, it's my second language. I don't speak it. I speak it as good as you know. We learn in school. So I'd say in any country in Europe they would be able to understand English. But I mean so, when you, as Americans have such a big listener base outside of US, you just have to. Think more globally. You have to be less American if you, if.

29:00 I may say so, that is a real struggle here, you I. Know, try not to talk so yeah, yeah about all your say Thanksgivings, or your Black Friday or your sports games and all that. Because we have no clue or well, we know, but we feel a little bit left out. So if you want to include your listeners, your global listeners, you have to think about that. Yeah, and it's hard to Yeah, I was thinking about this too. It's really hard to produce a podcast that is going to be kind of what would be kind of specialized to every country that could potentially listen to it, because every country kind of has their own holidays, their own events, their own activities, you know, in those countries.

29:47 So you're probably better off not even talking about holidays or local events or things going on in your community or things like that on your podcast. If you want to reach a global audience. Now, if you're trying to reach a local audience, then you know have. But yeah, or what you could do is so if you get a comment on your blog from a listener in say Denmark, do include that person. Do look up in Bigidians where is Denmark? And be a little bit curious about it. Be a bit open to your listeners outside include them somehow. It's you know, all the podcasters who do that, you know it. We really like that, you know, it's being included that way, that that our culture, which is quite different is it's kind of yeah, noticed for what it is.

30:36 And I still see that Europe has about eight countries that are in the top twenty list. So I would say Europe, as far as multi country is by far the biggest contributor to podcast consumption from a continent perspective. You know, I'm sure that the population of if you combine all the population of all those countries, it's a number. Now granted, you know, you look at China and even like other Asian countries, there's actually six Asian countries in the top twenty. So and even lonely Saudi Arabia is number sixteen. Wow. But I must say in Denmark we don't have at the moment any podcast podcasting in English. They're all podcasting in Danish.

31:24 And interesting that it is. And because you have to be really confident, you have to be really comfortable speaking another language than your own. I think maybe Americans can can relate to that. So, but even though we speak very good English and we learn in school, it's it's not our first language. So so, but the people who do, who are comfortable we speak in English and who decide to podcast in English, will be much more successful. They will be able to like Chris Mark what has done at Father Rodrgus done at Done that a lot of great podcasters are actually it's their second language, you know, English is their second language.

32:07 So yeah, really, what I wanted to tell you is that my dream is, or my goal is actually to set up a panel one day of podcasters at the New Media Expo, which has say four panelists where they're very, very even more successful podcasters in their own country in their own language, say in Japanese, in Chinese, in Spanish, and what French. So to show Americans that you can actually have grow a huge audience in your own country, in your own it doesn't have to be English because these countries are huge. I mean there's more Spanish speaking people in US than there is Spanish than there is American.

32:48 Oh sure right, oh yeah, well I'm sure that that would be true, and I'm sure Chinese is quite a large language I would imagine. So one day maybe an American would have to learn to speak Chinese to podcast in Chinese to be successful. Yeah. No, that's what a novel idea, right, Yeah, that's its twist. Yeah, it's it's really going to be interesting. I know that English is the language of business, but is English going to be the language of podcasting? And it sounds like that may not necessarily be the case. So I think if it is and English is the language, definitely, and if the Chinese and in Asia and in say Africa start podcasting in English, it will definitely bridge. It would create a bridge and we would learn to understand each other a lot more on a completely different level than we have before. I think that would be that would be a great thing.

33:46 Yeah, yeah, that's great. Well, Karen, thank you for joining me and talking about global podcasting. It's a it's a it's a very fascinating subject, especially for those here in the US that maybe don't think about it as much as they should. So yeah, So we've been speaking to Karen Hoague who's a consultant and founder of Podconsult at podconsult dot DK. So go check out our site. She's got some great tips on microphones and what's going on in Denmark when it comes to podcasts. So take care, Karen, you too, Rob. Thanks, that was a great conversation with Karen.

34:26 Is definitely great to have her on the show. I'll also add links to her website and more topics related to the conversation that I just had with Karen, and those will be available at my website at Rob Greenley dot com. I also wanted to share a audio comment that came in from a listener who listened to episode three of the podcast The Top thirteen Things that Really build a podcast audience, and this comment came from Robert Kemi, who commented on that episod. So I misunderstood whose show Robert was on. I guess it was not his show, the actual show that I commented on where he was talking about my show. I know this gets really kind of meta. Is Scott will Say who is the host and owner of the Speaking of That podcast? So let's play his comment here.

35:22 Greetings, Rob Greenley, this is Robert came. I was listening to your podcast today. A friend of mine, Scott will Say, was listening to you before, and one of the things that he had come up we had actually talked about on his podcast, The Speaking of That just wanted to give you a heads up. I know we said my name quite a bit, so that's that might have been a little confusing. It's actually his podcast. I wanted to give you heads up on that one. He wrote me a funny boxer. You sent it over to me and said, hey, Rob Greenley just gave you my podcast, please take care of it or something like that. It was really funny. In the podcast that we had done, we had a little bit on why I don't listen to podcasts. I know they're good for me and I should listen to them, and I subscribe to yours. By the way, excellent information.

36:10 The thirteen tips that you gave not just for new podcasters, but the pros, the people that have been doing it for a long time probably need it more so. And I'm raising my hand right now kudos on those thirteen tips because I'm starting to incorporate those now I can see and I'm making it. My podcast is kind of a comeback podcast. I took a hiatus for you know, one, two maybe seven years, and I'm trying to get back into the things. So I apologize for this long message and just wanted to give you a personal feedback and let you know, love it. I think you got a great show. Keep it up, wonderful content, which is keen after all. Thank you, free time, This is the Kimi and I'll be listening.

36:58 Thank you very much. Robert, and I apologize again fors misidentifying who the owner of the podcast was of the speaking of that show with Scott will Say, and sorry for that, Scott, and thanks for the comment though, Robert, I really appreciate it's true that mostly existing podcasters would benefit from my top thirteen tips in episode three. You're right many podcasters don't take the time to listen to other podcasts, and I think that is a mistake. I think you can learn a lot from other podcasts, and as you can hear from this kind of conversation, is you know, I was listening to other podcasts, and I listen to podcasts all day long essentially, and this is a great way to give feedback to this show as well as to send in an MP three file and you can send that to Rob at Rob Greenley dot com and would be happy to play on the show, just like I just did here with Robert's audio. Well that's it for this week. I'm Rob Greenley and I'm the podcast guy at Windows Phone and thanks again for listening to my thoughts here. I am also the co host of the New Media show every Saturday morning at nine am Pacific Standard time and noon Eastern Time with Todd Cochran, who's the CEO of Raw Voice, Blueberry and the power Press plug in for WordPress. Catch it all live on video at Live dot Geeknewcentral dot com, and

38:29 next week I'm going to focus on my two years experience with my Nissan Leaf and my thoughts tips to living with an electric car, and will also be reviewing a few interesting podcasts each week as well. I definitely want to hear your thoughts on this topic and any other topics that you think are important to let me know about via Twitter at Rob Greenley or in the comments of my Rob Greenley dot com comment area, And like I said earlier, we'd love to get an audio comment from you as well. And definitely go check out my blog post on this topic at my blog that will be coming out in a day or so. And if you're a podcaster and you want to get your podcast into Windows Phone Podcast Directory, send me an email to podcasts at Microsoft dot com. I'm also on Google Plus, LinkedIn, and Facebook, or just email me to Rob at Rob Greenley dot com and thank you very much for listening.

39:29 Talk to you next week.