SoberNotMature - Episode 194 (Megan Swan - Marinating In Chaos)

00:00:01.76
Bill
All right, everyone. Welcome once again to another episode of Sober, Not Mature. And yes, we do have a guest tonight. Megan, I'll i'll go ahead and introduce you here in ah in a minute.

00:00:13.13
Bill
um If anyone pays attention, which I always say that. i don't know people do or not, but you know who our guest is and where she's from, but we'll have explain that. But um Mike may be joining us. He got tied up again tonight, which...

00:00:25.87
Bill
I was telling Megan that before we got on here that, you know, it's it's happened a few times over the last couple of months, which is rare. um But, yeah, they're they're working his ass off. So he's he's out there, as ah as most people know, he's a truck driver.

00:00:35.04
Megan Swan
Poor guy.

00:00:37.23
Bill
So, um you know, he's probably out there delivering something that all you people need. So, you know, get off his fucking bag. hes He had to work late. So there. But yeah, either yeah it it kind of is what it is.

00:00:45.28
Megan Swan
poor guy

00:00:47.97
Bill
But um it's just it's really funny because it was a few months ago. ah They as a company, they're like, oh, this and that, the economy, blah, blah, blah. you know, we're slowing down, but we're working out, blah, blah, blah, all these different things.

00:00:59.02
Bill
They've actually worked him harder and longer since they said they might have issues. Yeah.

00:01:04.90
Megan Swan
Hmm. Hmm.

00:01:05.11
Bill
which is Which is weird. You know, he works sometimes longer hours, but again, kind of kind of is what it is. It's ah just a funny, funny kind of flip around thing. but um But anyhow, so yes, we have we have our our friend Megan from the the Sober Curator and from all these other places, which we're going to find out about. But Megan, do me a favor first and just introduce yourself to a brief introduction about who you are, where you're from, just a very brief background thing, and then we'll get started, okay? Okay.

00:01:30.31
Megan Swan
Yeah, thanks Phil so much for having me. ah Well, my name is Megan Swan. I'm a wellness coach and consultant, CEO and founder of two companies, one my own called Megan Swan Wellness, where I support generally entrepreneurs tend to be females with their personal well-being and you know business coaching and fundraising coaching.

00:01:52.38
Megan Swan
And then my new company I co-founded with my partner, who's also my husband, called Alta Vita Medical Wellness Tourism, where we host ah groups primarily from North America in a hidden gem part of Mexico called Chiapas.

00:02:08.77
Megan Swan
And they're, you know, like really unique experiences. We can talk in depth about what that's all about. But um I'm also a sober curator. i have my own podcast called wellness is a way of life for women building the future.

00:02:22.20
Megan Swan
And I'm an author. i have a book named marinating in chaos. actually have a couple books, but that's the latest one. And I'm a mom of two boys. um One, you know, wants to be, ah he's a tween wanting to be a teenager and the other one's still a little bit closer to home and to heart. And um what else? I've lived 15 years in Mexico and about a year and a half ago, we all relocated back to where I grew up in Calgary, Alberta, Canada.

00:02:54.15
Megan Swan
I think that's about it.

00:02:56.49
Bill
That's it? That's that's all you got going on? That's it? Jesus Christ. I'm one of those guys that likes the truck driver. He's got to work a little bit late. I'm for no better way to put it. up but I'm you know kind of glorified. It's for a law firm. But i'm ah I'm a fucking bill collector.

00:03:10.92
Bill
I collect bills and I travel. And that's all I do. you know and i'm just i'm here going through this stuff i'm like jesus christ i'm getting tired just listening to you but uh but here's here's the thing i knew most of those things but i don't know all about them um but i knew the canada thing i knew the mexico thing because when um when we were doing uh every once in a while the the sober curator meetings you would you were in mexico and i didn't i didn't i knew i didn't really know how that whole thing was so i'd love to hear about that too but um but Yeah. i mean welcome i mean it's just ah i was going to joke when we first started

00:03:44.50
Bill
and ask if you lost a bet to have to come on here because it kind of surprised me when

00:03:48.71
Megan Swan
Hmm.

00:03:49.66
Bill
when you raise your so were we' were in a monthly meeting last last month and um we were talking about something and i don't know if i was sharing you were sharing and then you were like oh hey put it in the messaging like hey i'd love to be on your podcast and looked at him thinking up like really Because only thing is that you've been on, Megan and I have been on these meetings back and forth. We did one review. What was that show that we did the review on for the Sober Curator podcast?

00:04:14.38
Bill
It was the basketball team.

00:04:14.62
Megan Swan
a Oh, running running point? No.

00:04:18.78
Bill
Yeah, I think that's what it was. Yeah, I think you were you were on that, right?

00:04:22.61
Megan Swan
Yeah. Yeah.

00:04:23.44
Bill
Okay. But so, I mean, again, I've known of of Megan for, you know, a couple of years now and probably one of the nicest and and I'll say one of the cleanest people that I know as far as just like image wise.

00:04:32.61
Megan Swan
tradition

00:04:34.64
Bill
And I'm like, why do you want to be on with us? But I'm like, okay, this is going to be fun. But no, in a serious note, i'm i'm I'm glad. I mean, we've had a few different people on from as far as Sober Curious, most recently Tony Hart.

00:04:46.76
Bill
um Elise has been on a couple of times. Dr. Sarah's been on twice. um We've been trying to get Kate on, but She had a microphone issue. And by the way, your sound quality is wonderful. So.

00:04:57.74
Megan Swan
Well, I followed instructions and ordered ah one that plugs into my computer on Monday.

00:05:03.95
Bill
Well, you know, and it here's the thing, and I'm glad you put it that way that you followed instructions because, and that was the other thing that we had talked about when when we first, Megan and I first started talking, because she's like, oh, you guys are audio only.

00:05:15.01
Bill
And, you know, i went into the short story about it, but the whole point is that the fact that we're audio only, It's extremely important to us in our early episodes. We have some people, Megan, that have been with us from the start.

00:05:26.25
Bill
um In our early episodes up until about, I think, mid-20s is when we first got Riverside, I think. um In our audio recordings, there were, no better way to put it, they were they were horrendous, just terrible, you know?

00:05:39.65
Bill
um So we're we're very particular about it. And, you know, we'll we'll reschedule if somebody if somebody pops in and we can't you know we can't get the sound right because either you'll get an echo or whatever the case is or it's staticky.

00:05:52.09
Bill
And it's our opinion that if if the audio is bad, it's going to take away from the story, number one, and you're going to lose people. So it's going to take away from the message that you're trying to get across from people. You know, so um i I think it's funny that you said follow directions because I i usually tell people three, four times just to make sure. and People like oh don't know, good. I've got it all set.

00:06:11.19
Bill
and Every once a while.

00:06:11.84
Megan Swan
No, and and I get it. Like, I think that's one of the most precious things about this medium is is the intimacy of the voice, right? And there's nothing more annoying if there's a click or, yeah, it's just that you're trying to follow something you want to listen to, but its there's a barrier.

00:06:21.98
Bill
Right? Yeah, I mean, I.

00:06:26.75
Bill
Yeah. And I, you know, if you, you ever listened to, and I listened to a lot of different podcasts, but you know, like David Spade and Dana Carvey, they have a, it's called flying the wall is the name of their podcast. And I like, I really enjoy the two of them.

00:06:40.93
Bill
And they had, um this was a couple of years ago, maybe a year and a half ago. They had Anthony and Michael Hall on who I also like, and I saw it in there. I'm like, this is going to be fucking awesome. I love all three of them, you know?

00:06:52.90
Bill
And I don't know what, however, their recording was set up. They were doing it on zoom. I think the, the audio and the recording was so terrible. I, I bared through it, but it was so hard to listen to.

00:07:03.07
Bill
And I'm like, these guys got, they got more money than we would know what to do with.

00:07:06.73
Megan Swan
yeah I was going to say, how is it possible they don't have a studio anyway?

00:07:09.79
Bill
yeah And it's so many of these big smart lists, I think, uses use Zoom, which kind of blew my mind. But mean, they've got editing software and all that stuff in there. But this studio is $20 a month. That's it. the The one that we use. And it's so simple. It's ridiculous. But so anyhow. But once once again, I guess i'll I digressed all over the damn place, which is what we do. But thank you. Seriously, thank you for coming on.

00:07:31.82
Bill
um But to begin with, and you know obviously we want to hear your background. We want to hear your story about how you got you know sober and that sort of thing. But this is usually Mike's part, so I'll tell you how he says it and how how we ah we will like to do things.

00:07:44.66
Bill
um I guess, number one, neither one of us are fans of Drunkologues. um No sense in listening to, you know, an hour of stories about how you got there.

00:07:48.84
Megan Swan
Mm-hmm.

00:07:52.84
Bill
Because in Mike's opinion, we all know how to fuck up our lives and fuck up the lives of all all the people around us. We're more interested in solution. Kind of all these all these things that you just listed off that you're doing now.

00:08:04.21
Bill
um Yeah, give us a little bit of background about what how you got to that point. But we want to get into what you're doing now. that wants to be We want that to be the meat of the story. But but yeah, tell us about about how you got to that point where, you know, alcohol was no longer a thing for you.

00:08:19.26
Megan Swan
Okay, well, I'll back up a little bit. So just give you like 15 years in Mexico happened from a moment I was 30 living in Toronto. I thought I wanted to be in the upper echelons of the non for profit world. And um there's just like all these the universe was sending me all the signs that no, that is not what you're meant to do.

00:08:39.75
Megan Swan
ah which, you know, I wasn't receiving in an an enlightened way at that point in my life. ah I was just looking for ah new plan. And i had off again, on again, boyfriend at the time, who kept kind of threatening to go travel the world, but he wanted to do it by himself. And this was the reason why, like, we couldn't have a long term, etc, etc.

00:09:00.74
Megan Swan
At some point, I'm like, you know what, I'm gonna go travel the world. See ya. And so I was also obsessed with ah Liz Gilbert's Eat, Pray, Love. And, you know, that was kind of like my playbook. So my plan was to go live in Mexico. I mean, I got the little certificate that I could teach English and I was already a yoga teacher.

00:09:20.73
Megan Swan
I figured between those two things I could you know travel and work.

00:09:23.91
Bill
Right.

00:09:24.21
Megan Swan
And I wanted to spend a year in Mexico and a year in Bali and then, you know, see where the universe takes me. But long story short, still haven't been to Bali. And I spent 15 years in Mexico. i was maybe about four months in when I um started the teaching my now partner and husband of 15 years English privately. So he's a surgeon and he needed to prepare for these international conferences and Yeah, so that's that's how I got to Mexico.

00:09:52.97
Bill
Thank you.

00:09:55.73
Megan Swan
um From there, i kind of, you know when I realized that the relationship was something I wanted to stick around for, i knew that I didn't want to teach English like as a career. That was just sort of a means to an end.

00:10:09.91
Megan Swan
um So I started with the yoga dream, opened and operated yoga studios there for a few years. But at the time i was, it's a small city in Southern Chiapas, which is, you know borders Oaxaca.

00:10:25.25
Megan Swan
You may have heard heard of Oaxaca. It's South of Quintana Roo where Cancun is and borders Guatemala.

00:10:29.43
Bill
Sure.

00:10:31.39
Megan Swan
yeah, so At this point, there's not a lot of other yoga studios or teachers. So long story short, I'm teaching all the classes myself to to maintain this yoga studio. And so every time I had ah baby, i would teach until I was about eight months pregnant. And then I'd have to close the studio and and kind of like start over when I wanted to get back to it in a second time.

00:10:53.85
Megan Swan
I had my second son. i had some, you know, wealthy clients are like, why don't you just come teach us by the pool and, you know, we'll pay you whatever you want. And, you know, then you can stay for breakfast. And I was like, great.

00:11:08.53
Megan Swan
So I did that for ah probably ah a year or so. And I also started up a health and wellness magazine at that point, which was not the point of magazine business, let's just say to start that.

00:11:19.18
Megan Swan
But I learned a lot about, um,

00:11:19.28
Bill
Right.

00:11:22.78
Megan Swan
editing and sales and networking and um content creation before it was really you know something everyone knew that term.

00:11:32.13
Bill
right

00:11:32.97
Megan Swan
And um yeah, so then one of these wealthy clients was taking a coaching certification through IIN, which is kind of like the the most famous health coaching program out of New York.

00:11:47.33
Megan Swan
It's the Institute of Integrated Nutrition. And she needed like some guinea pig clients. And I thought to myself, to be quite honest, like I'm at least on her level in terms of informed on these things, if not more so, but sure, I'll be your like practice client.

00:12:04.94
Megan Swan
And at this point I had two small children and I just wasn't getting back to any semblance of, of ah sleep basically. And she had me, she's like, okay, well, you're going to get up 10 minutes early. And she's like young, doesn't have it, just married, no kids.

00:12:19.39
Megan Swan
You're going get up 10 minutes earlier every day and you're going scrape your tongue and you're going meditate and you're going to do three yoga poses. And I was just like, are you fucking kidding me? I'm telling you, i can't sleep. And you want me to wake up earlier.

00:12:33.73
Megan Swan
ah But it worked. And so that was like my 10 minutes to myself as a mother. um and little by little, that morning routine, like at this point, it's probably when I have the luxury of time, it's up to an hour.

00:12:45.27
Megan Swan
But it was really just the concept of prioritizing, like starting the day in my own space, own mental space, physical space, and just how that shifted a lot for me.

00:12:56.70
Bill
Right.

00:12:57.42
Megan Swan
So from there, ah i started, I signed up for the same course. and became a health coach. And and i became this expert in detoxification. And I would run all these women and mom through women and other moms through, you know,

00:13:14.94
Megan Swan
30 day detox, 90 day detox, which always included no sugar, you know, no, all the things including alcohol. Right. And so I was consistently doing these detoxes.

00:13:21.90
Bill
right

00:13:25.03
Megan Swan
And by the way, being pregnant and breastfeeding, pregnant breastfeeding for almost four years solid, I had also this new window of, of wisdom, if you will, or insight into what it was to live without alcohol. And,

00:13:39.29
Megan Swan
you know, I think a lot of women don't necessarily appreciate or talk about, or you know, maybe it's not universal, but in my experience, like alcohol did not hit the same postpartum for either.

00:13:51.06
Megan Swan
So I, I still had this idea of like, Oh, be great to go back to my, you know, social drinking lifestyle, but it just wasn't quite hitting yet.

00:13:53.44
Bill
Thank

00:14:00.77
Megan Swan
And I'm doing all these detoxes. And so the elephant in the room becomes at some point, Like I'm a kind of obsessed about all these health things, but the one thing, and it's not just me, you know, it's like in most yoga worlds in, it's kind of like the elephant in the wellness world, I think is alcohol.

00:14:21.47
Megan Swan
Um, So had kind of my last morning that I woke up feeling like shame and trying to retrace my steps.

00:14:34.58
Megan Swan
And again, it was like not happening as frequently as when I was in my 20s and late 30s before being a mother.

00:14:35.00
Bill
Thank you.

00:14:41.40
Megan Swan
But um yeah, I just at that moment decided and I mean, I can get into the nitty gritty of how how bad that night was. And it was more from a perspective of of a child growing up with an alcoholic father, this just crossing so many lines. I swore as a 14 year old girl in the back of a car being driven by someone I knew shouldn't be driven by, i would never do.

00:15:07.89
Bill
Right?

00:15:08.73
Megan Swan
And, um, and so that moment I decided to quit for a year and I didn't have, I had one of my best friends, uh, and the whole world had been, had got sober like years earlier. And so that was kind of like my only point of reference of support, if you will. But I didn't, you know, I didn't do any programs. I just, I just knew because I've been detoxing off and on for ah over years at this point.

00:15:36.81
Megan Swan
that i could I could say that to myself.

00:15:37.35
Bill
Right.

00:15:42.00
Megan Swan
you know At that point, I think what's important is I did not decide to quit drinking forever. i quit drinking for a moment, a window.

00:15:49.70
Bill
right

00:15:49.87
Megan Swan
However, at three months into that, I knew I was never gonna go back. So I'm what they call a spontaneous sobriety story in that you know I made a decision and I've stuck to it. It's gonna be eight years in March.

00:16:04.26
Megan Swan
Um, I've been on wine tours with my husband since then. Like I, you know, I smell the wine and I immediately remember why i don't need it.

00:16:16.11
Bill
So, um and that's kind of funny. i and here well here let me I've said this before on here, but just so you know, Mike and I started doing this podcast to three and a half years ago, two and a half years ago.

00:16:29.96
Bill
God, when did we start doing it? February 22. Oh, yeah, so three and a half years ago. So at that time, in both of us grew up in, uh, in AA, that's how both of us got sober. Uh, my dad was an Alcoholics Anonymous. I knew about it for years and years, but didn't know enough about it until I obviously got into it.

00:16:49.07
Bill
But, um, Neither one of us had anything against any other way to get sober. We just didn't know, you know, and I had no idea when, when somebody has suggested, cause I was looking right before we started the podcast, uh, you know, I was looking for again, coming out of the pandemic and stuff like that.

00:16:57.11
Megan Swan
Mm-hmm.

00:17:06.65
Bill
I had this void. So I started listening to podcasts. I was listening to sober podcasts. I'm hearing about Instagram and people like, yeah, go on Instagram. I literally had my, my daughter is and I mean, now she's going to be 30 Monday. She's going to be 38. God. Yeah. thirty eight 38. I do have, I've got a 38 year old daughter and for everyone.

00:17:26.08
Bill
She probably hates that.

00:17:26.64
Megan Swan
I was going to say.

00:17:26.68
Bill
I, that I just repeated that twice, but. yeah But, you know, the thing of it is I'm 57. Do the math. I was 19 when she was born. um But, you know, I mean, i when I say the number, she doesn't doesn't look, act, or to me it doesn't feel like she's whatever that that number is. But that's beside the point.

00:17:44.32
Bill
But um so whatever it was a few years ago, you know, I actually I texted her and I think I called her and I'm like, I want to get on Instagram and I want to get out. I hear hear about all these sober pages on there.

00:17:55.49
Bill
But at that time, I wasn't out. You know, um I was in an industry where I'm still in in the collection business than I was before. But I've had higher profile jobs over the years in that same industry.

00:18:08.65
Bill
Not that I was some sort of big deal. I was just known by a lot of people in that industry because I'd done a lot of things, been a lot of places, that sort of thing. And I've got a very unique name. I mean, everyone knows now my my first and last name.

00:18:20.74
Bill
You don't find many of us around. you know it's ah it's ah It's an unusual name. So I was kind of you know in the closet a little bit. wasn't afraid to I wasn't ashamed of being sober, but I didn't want it to get out on my professional life.

00:18:34.15
Bill
So I'm asking my daughter, I'm like, how do i do this without, I don't want my name on there, but I want to do this thing and I want to do whatever.

00:18:34.16
Megan Swan
Mm-hmm.

00:18:39.48
Bill
i didn't know we were doing the podcast yet. So she showed me. So I get on Instagram and I start seeing all this AF stuff and I'm like, oh everyone's like talking about like as fuck stuff. That's what I think. I don't know.

00:18:49.03
Megan Swan
Mm-hmm.

00:18:49.38
Bill
I had no idea it means alcohol free. um I have no idea what sober curious is. i'm I'm seeing gray area. um I'm seeing all these different things and I, I don't have a fucking clue.

00:19:01.02
Bill
Yeah.

00:19:01.35
Megan Swan
Mm-hmm.

00:19:01.58
Bill
What any of this stuff is. And then I knew about, I had heard about smart recovery just because I'd had a couple of friends that dabbled in it. um So I knew a little bit about that, but not much. But then I saw, I started hearing about all these different ways um that people get and stay sober without Alcoholics Anonymous.

00:19:17.02
Megan Swan
Thank you.

00:19:17.58
Bill
And you know what, quite honestly, Neither one of us give a shit. Mike and I, can i don't we don't give a shit one way or the other, um how people get or stay sober. The main point, Mike says it all the time. He's like, as long as you're being a good person, not hurting anyone and making your corner of the world a better place, it's like, I don't give a fuck what do you do you know or how you do it.

00:19:35.85
Bill
Because the whole point is is that that's the whole point of doing this di different thing that we do is to stop hurting people. you know um But I've never heard of spontaneous sobriety.

00:19:47.45
Bill
So that to me is that's,

00:19:48.44
Megan Swan
Well, neither had I until I encountered the the sober curator community. Like I had, I didn't have a label until somebody gave it to me.

00:19:54.28
Bill
Right. So somebody just out of the blue, you met and they're like, oh yeah, you're, you're one of these people.

00:19:55.62
Megan Swan
Yeah.

00:19:59.78
Megan Swan
It was like Googling it. I'm like, okay, I guess so.

00:20:03.08
Bill
So it's, actually it's actually, but it's a known term. It's ah it's something that it just, it's, that's, it's amazing to me. Again, the, the more, the more I, we, and I, and all of us do this, the the more, the more I end up learning, which kind of blows my mind.

00:20:16.60
Bill
I wasn't that way, by the way. I was a bit more low bottom than Mike was too, you know but both of us have have talked about our stories. but um So the you talked about a little bit with the but the girl and the dad and and that sort of thing. So you had it run in your family, if I'm guessing correctly, right?

00:20:35.42
Megan Swan
Yeah. So my father was an alcoholic. He committed suicide when I was 17. um,

00:20:41.79
Bill
Okay, okay.

00:20:42.66
Megan Swan
and Yeah, I just watched it be like the end of him. you know Basically, it would get it would ebb and flow based on things that were going on in his life, but it got you know it started to get worse when my parents got divorced, and then it would get worse when other things were going wrong in his life.

00:20:57.32
Bill
right

00:21:00.79
Megan Swan
and then at one point like But the one sort of identity key piece for him was his career. And then when it affected his career, basically he got fired because he screwed up a deal. And it was like, you know, was like a very, very quick downward spiral.

00:21:18.77
Bill
right

00:21:19.18
Megan Swan
And Yeah, so I mean, I can, i've I've definitely healed that part of me for many, many years. I carried this sort of victim story around that. um And, you know, now I prefer to think of all the really beautiful things that he taught and seated in me over the years while I was here.

00:21:42.44
Bill
Right.

00:21:43.19
Megan Swan
But I mean, I'm happy to dive down any rabbit hole you want.

00:21:43.42
Bill
Yeah. it

00:21:46.43
Bill
Okay. Well, i mean, first of all, i'm i'm I'm sorry to hear about that. That can't be, that can't be easy. My, my dad died um sober, but he died a month before I got sober. That was the end of the beginning of my end and in my, my life and in sobriety. Again, one of those weird things where, you know, a tragic event is, is kind of what led me, my dad dying is what led me into, into sobriety is the, that's a short story.

00:22:09.24
Bill
um had an uncle that was now was on my mom's side, um admittedly problem, alcoholic, this and that. He ended up, you know, he committed suicide some years ago. um Other family members that I know were affected by it and that sort of thing.

00:22:23.61
Bill
But the thing of it is, and they, I mean, at this point in, I mean, both Mike and I have been sober for 15 and a half years and we had sober at the same time in Cleveland and that's how we met and blah, blah, blah. Um, but to begin with, um I don't remember when I came to the realization, but I don't know. i mean, it, I think it, I think it went further back than just my dad, but clearly my dad was an alcoholic. Clearly I'm an alcoholic.

00:22:47.81
Bill
Um, But i i kind of got to the point where I'm like, I don't know um if it's hereditary, if it was learned. um I don't know if it was environmental, whatever the case is. And quite honestly, anymore, I don't care.

00:22:59.50
Bill
um um i know I know who I am. I know what my problem is. But I also know what the solution is. And I'm i'm in it. you know So that's my that's my deal. um But I don't take away from the hereditary part of it because when like when I first got sober,

00:23:12.84
Bill
Um, I, I talked a lot about it with my son and my son was nine when I got sober. He just turned 25 and, um, extremely open relationship when it comes to alcohol.

00:23:24.89
Bill
Both my ex and I worked together with him as he was going through things. He never lied. He never hit it. Um, He always told us where he was if he needed a ride. he always he always called us. Never got in trouble.

00:23:36.05
Bill
You know, I mean, we if nothing else, I mean, we we taught we taught him if he's we knew he' was going to drink. We didn't want him to hide it. um we We tried to teach him responsibility the best we could.

00:23:46.82
Bill
And I think it I think it shows in his life.

00:23:47.08
Megan Swan
Mm-hmm.

00:23:49.34
Bill
But I also told him, I said, you know what? You're not doomed to be an alcoholic. But I said, just be mindful. You know, literally it's, it w it was here and now it was there. And I don't know what that means. I don't know if that's going to affect you, but just understand it's there.

00:24:04.02
Bill
And he does, you know, um, but it's such a, it's such a tough thing. You know, when you have that, when you have that, um, uh, if nothing else, that hereditary thing, but so my sister, no effect whatsoever, you know, she, I,

00:24:17.08
Bill
She can she's an army, you know, she she drinks wine and can have a glass of wine, a couple of glasses of wine ah with dinner every night to never have a problem, never have an issue, never had an issue with it. So I don't know. But I mean, clearly, it's something I think we got to be mindful of, if nothing else, right?

00:24:33.24
Megan Swan
Yeah, well, I mean, I think we know a lot more in the last ah decade or two in terms of epigenetics. You know, my my father's generation, he was told or you know that generation was told something's hereditary. There really was just this doom thinking like, oh, so it's it's going to happen.

00:24:53.28
Megan Swan
and and And like there's we now understand also the psychosomatic importance of things like if you're if you deeply believe something, it's definitely more likely to happen or or the very least the stress that you're generating on your system is is not helping you.

00:25:07.80
Bill
Right.

00:25:09.06
Megan Swan
um But. you know, the, the hereditary piece is more like a map, right? So we're all given this map and maybe you have like addiction on as one of your highways on the map, but there's so much that can determine whether or not you take that road.

00:25:24.34
Bill
right

00:25:24.43
Megan Swan
um And so I, I personally take a lot of pride in, in being like the, the, the end of my inner interjection intergenerational trauma in that sense where,

00:25:38.34
Megan Swan
ah you you know, I mean, there's just so many things that go into it. And I also know it was somewhat somewhat conscious as a 17 year old who lost her dad, like, um Yeah, like I thought it was in this this totally fucked up way of honoring him to like carry on You know, I wouldn't have defined myself as an alcoholic at that point, but like the the the learned behavior of commemorating with alcohol, celebrating with alcohol, you know, like it being this catch all tool.

00:26:00.37
Bill
Right.

00:26:10.78
Megan Swan
um And yeah, I think It's just there's so many factors as to whether you you get on that path and you find like you're out of control in some version and how out of control.

00:26:26.67
Megan Swan
um And some people find that helpful to know that like they they had this sort of precursor to it and and they're not all to blame in that sense.

00:26:38.40
Megan Swan
um And then other people, like it's it's not necessarily even part of their story, but I definitely think for me, probably what felt more, what resonates more is that I just grew up seeing like wine specifically being really like it being this elevated way to do everything.

00:26:58.39
Megan Swan
And it was, you know, kind of defined you.

00:27:00.88
Bill
Thank you.

00:27:02.11
Megan Swan
You know, I, i but prided myself at 12 of like knowing the different grapes and what you, what food went with, what you like all this silly knowledge, which is great if you like that kind of thing, but um you know, not,

00:27:17.19
Megan Swan
An identity that a young child needs, you know?

00:27:20.73
Bill
Right. Well, and and I do. I remember that, too. I mean, the, you know, growing up and, you know, you you see that sort of thing where I'm just going out and, you know, I'm going to go out and have a drink or, you know, I make drinks look so nice when people make it up or, you you know, it's it it seems classy when somebody's sitting there, you know, drinking a martini or ah you know, ah ah ladies get together for wine, guys get together and go in the other room for, you know, scotch or scotch and a cigar, or whatever the case is. I never liked cigars, but it seemed like a, like, yeah, I want to do that, you know?

00:27:53.00
Bill
And, and it is, it's the, it's the thing of it is.

00:27:53.26
Megan Swan
Yeah.

00:27:55.78
Bill
So, and we've had, we've had conversations on here with, ah with individuals. We've had, you know, some, you know, some conversations where it's leading into when we've spoken to obviously have it have a female guest on, um you know, saying the you know the whole the whole wine culture thing. And, you know, the the wine industry went after, you know, moms and that sort of thing.

00:28:14.59
Bill
I don't disagree with that. But then Mike made the good point. He's like, you ever sit down and watch a football game on a Sunday? I'm like, God damn, that's a good point, you know. Because the that side of things is going after all the dads. That's when you see the, you know, you see all the beer commercials. You see this and all the women are hot and everything else, you know.

00:28:31.19
Bill
And you're like, you can have all the hot women in the world if you if you drink our beer, which is not really the case.

00:28:37.13
Megan Swan
With that beer gut that also lowers your testosterone.

00:28:37.61
Bill
Because...

00:28:40.45
Megan Swan
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:28:41.18
Bill
yeah When, when I got, when I got that drunk, most of ah it, I'm about ready to go piss myself. You know, I don't think even the, you know, the, the most desperate woman in the world would, would want to, would want a piece of that, you know, but it's, it's such a goddamn lie.

00:28:46.66
Megan Swan
Yeah.

00:28:53.99
Bill
But the other thing too, is that, so it even take out, take out the alcohol thing, you know, cause when, um, neither Mike or I, and neither one of us are, um, anti-alcohol, I, the alcohol industry is going to do what they do.

00:28:54.92
Megan Swan
Mm-hmm.

00:29:06.00
Bill
I understand all the studies. I understand it's not good. um But I mean, I'm i'm not one of those, he isn't either or one of those people to stand up and be, know, shake our fists at it. But, and there's a reason behind that too, is because I also look at, um I look at the fast food industry. I look at the candy industry.

00:29:22.93
Bill
um I look at all these other different things that are, that are out there. it's happening. It's not a, it's not the alcohol industry or the tobacco industry. It's society. And that's all this, all this shit, all this shit sells.

00:29:37.30
Bill
I love coffee. You know, I've given up pretty much all of my, all of my fucking vices, except for coffee. You know, um, I was a smoker.

00:29:43.42
Megan Swan
Hmm.

00:29:45.24
Bill
I just quit vaping recently. I, I used to eat a ton of fast food. I haven't eaten fast food in years. Um, I eat relatively healthy. I'm pretty goddamn boring, you know, but man, I love a good cup of coffee, you know, but But to a certain extent, I still need to be mindful.

00:30:00.28
Bill
um I can be i can be an ah have alcoholic behavior with anything, whether it's gambling or coffee or sex or food, you know, anything like that. I can I feel I can still have that, you know, that that mindset. So personally, I think I have the whatever, you know, when you hear about these these alcoholic tendencies and maybe that's the wrong way to put it, it's addictive tendencies, right?

00:30:22.79
Bill
I have that and I know I do. I don't know if that that resonates at all or if that ever was something that you had.

00:30:29.15
Megan Swan
Yeah, for sure. i mean, I would say i still manage it in certain areas.

00:30:35.17
Bill
Yeah, we we all have to.

00:30:35.29
Megan Swan
For me, like the one thing is is is sugar, if I'm being honest. I do love coffee as well, but I think like everything you were saying, what was coming up for me is is that most of us are just increasingly disconnected. And so when you're disconnected,

00:30:51.24
Megan Swan
to you know um your relationship with whatever substance or you know um activity you know shopping sex you mentioned mentioned all those things um you know if it's a way to numb out and not feel your feelings then it's counterproductive and and how counterproductive like obviously depends on the severity of the addiction but um

00:31:09.12
Bill
Oh, sure. Right.

00:31:15.56
Megan Swan
I think for me and this kind of like unfurled year by year, it didn't come all at once as you probably remember at the beginning of your sobriety. It's not like it's like you quit it and then everything's rosy.

00:31:26.98
Megan Swan
Um,

00:31:27.36
Bill
All right.

00:31:28.45
Megan Swan
But for me, at like for sure by the five year mark, I was just realizing that I was so disconnected from the spectrum of human emotion. Like not only the feeling sad when one should feel sad, but also like not really being able to feel like true euphoria without some sort of substance.

00:31:38.60
Bill
all right

00:31:49.14
Bill
Mm-hmm.

00:31:49.45
Megan Swan
And once you've been in sobriety long enough, that you realize, oh, like there's there's like this techno colorness to life that I was cutting myself off from because I mostly didn't want to feel the the shittier feelings. um So I would, you know, drink.

00:32:08.36
Megan Swan
um And yeah, I feel like that's kind of. I don't know, and that's kind of like moving into other areas. But with everything that's going on in in our world, like pick pick a topic, the more that one can be super in tune and self-aware of how they're interacting with things, how things are affecting them, you know how much they want to dial in or dial out, and essentially like have clear tools to help regulate one's nervous system, I think the more the better off one is going to be.

00:32:31.21
Bill
Thank

00:32:43.59
Bill
Right. Well, you were talking about, too, the the feelings, and it reminds me of, I was at a meeting one time, and this guy was he was newly sober. And I think at the time, I was like three, three and a half years sober, something along those lines.

00:32:55.97
Bill
And the guy was talking, he's like, he goes, God damn it. He was like, I don't know, 90 days, maybe maybe six months sober. And, you know, he goes, he goes, yeah, he goes, I talked to my sponsor today because I was all I was all pissed off. And he goes, i'm mad about this. I was upset about that.

00:33:10.58
Bill
And he goes, I'm telling my sponsor, he's like, he's like, God damn it, you told me when I got sober, you know, in three months or five months or six months, I would feel better. And he said he goes, you know what my sponsor said? And we're all just kind of like, I do exactly what the sponsor said.

00:33:24.38
Bill
But his sponsor said, he goes, you are going to feel better. You're going to feel hurt. You're going to feel pain. You're going to feel joy. You're going to feel sadness.

00:33:31.71
Megan Swan
Yeah, you're going to feel more accurately, not feel great.

00:33:32.21
Bill
You're going to feel anger.

00:33:35.25
Bill
You're... Yeah, you're going feel better. your your Your ability to feel going come back. So he's like, you're fine. And he see he's like, that pissed me off, but he's right. you know um

00:33:45.87
Megan Swan
Yeah.

00:33:46.71
Bill
But the the matter of dealing with it. So I got sober when when I was 41. Mike was 43. And I think he'll attest to the same thing. um Neither one of us. I mean, we were on paper. We were adult males. Yeah.

00:33:58.07
Megan Swan
Hmm.

00:33:58.11
Bill
that had been around, you know, been around the block a little bit and it had lives of of sorts, you know, for a number of years. um But I did not know how to, I didn't know how to live. I had no coping skills or anything like that.

00:34:09.97
Bill
And that was the, again, what, what threw me out the deep end when my dad died, you know, cause I had no way to deal with, he was the closest person that ever died um around me.

00:34:16.11
Megan Swan
and

00:34:20.21
Bill
I mean, that that was, that was the one that that was the closest person that had died in my life. And I was 41, had no, ah no ability to deal with it. So, um you know, obviously this whole thing, it rolls into, I get sober, blah, blah, blah. And my stepdad who has, or was in my life for, gosh, I think 30 years, 28, 29, 30 years at the time that he passed, um different men, different people to me, but both I loved in in the same manner, but maybe different ways, if that makes sense.

00:34:52.19
Bill
He was just as important to me as a human being in my life and as a role model as my dad was. um But when he died, I was a year and two months sober, almost three months sober. And the difference in that was um almost unrecognizable because I had the opportunity to to feel that death, to deal with that death and actually cope with it.

00:35:13.74
Bill
um You know, when it happened, rather than, you know, having to to sit on it and deal with the turmoil for eight or nine months like I did with my dad's death. You know, and then along the way, we, the same thing, we, we get these, these skills and these, these abilities to, to deal with these things.

00:35:29.94
Bill
um And it's, ah it's just a matter of, I don't know, getting, yeah, I mean, clearing up our heads, getting the substances out of our, out of our brains and our bodies, but it is, it's listening to other people and actually connecting with healthy people and realizing that we can also live healthy existences, you know, it's crazy.

00:35:48.99
Megan Swan
Well, and that there's like such a benefit in sitting with someone in their, you know, deepest, darkest sadness, like not forever, but like actually just going there with them and and just, you know, it's overused term, but like holding space, like you don't necessarily need to be providing anything other than like, I'm with you ah in this, whatever, hard emotion.

00:35:55.92
Bill
Right. Right.

00:36:13.75
Megan Swan
And, um, and yeah, like, I think it also there then simultaneously gives you a lot more insight in, into sort of the complexities of how good one can feel.

00:36:26.27
Bill
Right. Well, that was the thing. Mike and I talked about it a couple of times that, and I don't know if it's ah probably not completely just a male thing, but, you know, this whole fix it thing. Both of us were, you know, certainly before we got sober, you know, trying to trying to fix or be a part of or fix everything, you know.

00:36:41.95
Bill
Um, whereas, I mean, both of us be, be again, to your point, you know, the longer he gets over, the more of these things kind of open up realizing that, I liked the way you said that just, you know, holding space with somebody.

00:36:53.13
Bill
Uh, Mike always says that he goes, he goes out, somebody is going through a bad thing. He goes, I don't know what, I don't know what I could do. He goes, sometimes I'm just there. He goes, sometimes I'm, I'm, I'm the shoulder. He goes, I, I don't need to say anything. I just need to be there for people.

00:37:05.84
Bill
you know And I've actually said that to to friends and family. I'm like, I have no idea what I can do, how I can help. I don't know if anything I say or do is going to make a difference. But if there's anything that I can do, please let me know. But I'm not trying to throw, because everyone says that.

00:37:23.36
Bill
Oh, if I could do anything, if I, if I could do anything, let me know. I try to qualify it and say, I don't know what to do, but if you tell me what you need, I'll i'll be there. You know? Um, it's just, it's, it is, it just like you say, just being there with somebody.

00:37:32.82
Megan Swan
Yeah.

00:37:36.90
Bill
I mean, just being the people knowing that they can count on you. If nothing else, you don't necessarily have to fix it. Sometimes people just want to, to vent. They just want to get the shit out of their, out of their head and get all this, all this garbage out of their mind.

00:37:51.71
Bill
They don't want you to fix it. They don't want a solution. They just want to tell you why they're pissed off. And nine times out of 10, eight times out of 10, maybe they feel a little bit better just by getting it off their chest. And I mean, what a gift to just be there and listen to, you know, people vent, right?

00:38:05.58
Megan Swan
Yeah, and I mean, i think we've gotten so far away, like we're social beings. And so, I mean, I've learned a lot from living in Mexico for 15 years in terms of, you know, like much more collectivist culture. Whereas, you know, I grew up, I've got Irish background and, um you know, Eastern European and and really just sort of this Anglo-Saxon, like stiff upper lip bullshit.

00:38:30.28
Megan Swan
of, you know, feeling, you know, ah in I grew up where it was very clear to me that uncomfortable feelings were awkward for everyone. So, you know, just best to avoid, best to minimize, best to kind of like hurry through when someone's telling you um you, know, you ask them how they are and they actually answer and you're uncomfortable and so um and ah and I think one thing I've learned from for Mexican culture is you know and when someone passes away, there are these

00:39:02.46
Megan Swan
for days people like come from all, all over and sit with the, in with the body. And let's, it's like an event, you know, there's coffee, there's cookies, ah there's hundreds of people, you know, um sometimes people are closer to the body and crying. Other times it's more like that we, as humans, we process and dialogue, right? We integrate things and dialogue.

00:39:24.86
Megan Swan
And so it feeling like it's the safe space um just to either sit beside someone in silence and be there physically, literally, and or that you can talk about these things. And I think, you know, we can learn a lot from that. And and I think like that kind of culture exists much more in sort of sober circles.

00:39:44.56
Bill
Right.

00:39:44.66
Megan Swan
um But it feels odd, like it feels revolutionary when in fact, it's kind of like more how our tribal human selves were in terms of, you know, nightly coming around a fire and, you know, after any sort of stressful event, you come and you process and whether that's through song or dance or dialogue.

00:40:05.99
Megan Swan
Yeah, I think there's just all these tools that the sober world kind of gives you that are are really sort of innate nature of humanity.

00:40:13.78
Bill
Right. Well, and that's, ah and that's the one thing. So did it, did you ever use anything? You'd ever used anything like AA or anything like that?

00:40:21.20
Megan Swan
No, never.

00:40:22.39
Bill
Okay. But you're familiar. you you know what the steps are, you know, there's steps involved and in all that sort of stuff. I'm guessing. Okay.

00:40:27.48
Megan Swan
Yeah. And my best bestie that I mentioned, like ah she's, she went that route. So, and she's still, you know, in church basements.

00:40:32.37
Bill
Okay. Yeah, in the that's the thing. i yeah Rarely you'll find me upstairs unless it's for a funeral or a wedding. But yeah, I spent i spent i spent a lot of time in in a church basement. That's for damn sure. But the the thing of it is, and what, um I mean, same deal. I would never try to, and that's one of the one of the principles of Alcoholics Anonymous, is that it's it's based on um attraction rather than promotion.

00:40:58.99
Bill
um You know, we as members of Alcoholics Anonymous are not out there or not supposed to be out there trying to, try to you know, um recruit people. That's not the point. You know, if somebody sees how you're living your life and they ask you how you did it, um you know, you can tell them and, you know, hey, if they want to check out a meeting, feel free.

00:41:08.19
Megan Swan
Mm-hmm.

00:41:16.01
Bill
I've always told people that are struggling if they don't know what else to do. I'm like, worst case scenario, go sit in the back of a meeting and just just see if that might be something that that you can that you can resonate or that resonates with you. But I mean, it do what you got to do type of thing.

00:41:30.46
Bill
But the the fun part about the steps is that the only step out out of the 12 that even mentions alcohol is the first one. And if you if you didn't know ah that those had to do with alcohol and Alcoholics Anonymous, they really are living steps, you know.

00:41:46.11
Bill
And we've actually had we've had a couple of people on that have talked about different pathways that they've they've gotten sober.

00:41:46.37
Megan Swan
Mm-hmm.

00:41:52.56
Bill
And it's funny um that a lot of times these they've used a mentor, they've used a different program or whatever the case is. They're this pathway that they've used is a, although not a mirrored version of the steps, it's still a version of you can feel the steps in their in their path.

00:42:09.99
Bill
um You know, the steps of Alcoholics Anonymous. So I think that some of the things, even though, you know, like it gets people talk about eica when it's old and it's antiquated and all sort of things. Great. That a lot of it is.

00:42:20.78
Bill
But. um, you know, some of the, some of the mindsets, some of the ideas are, they're kind of life things, you know, when it really comes down to it, but the recovery community, when you just talked about that, it reminded me of Mike, Mike and I were talking of this a couple of weeks ago.

00:42:33.77
Bill
So the difference in going to, um, a funeral for somebody who died sober versus somebody who relapsed in an overdose, for instance, or relapsed and drank themselves to death. So,

00:42:46.65
Bill
if somebody stayed sober and passed away, going to that funeral versus the other one, um it's night and day, you know? But you go to the one where, where somebody died sober, not the people i haven't seen people cry at those, at those celebrations I'll call them or at those events, but it's rare, you know, um because it's just like, man, this, this is what this person did, you know, with his or her life for all these years in the amount of people that come out and the amount of people that they've affected over the years in a positive way.

00:43:02.31
Megan Swan
Mm-hmm.

00:43:15.48
Bill
Versus the other side of things, that's where you see the tears and you see the pain and you see that negative ripple effect of what happened when that individual, you know, got off the path and thought like a lot of us did. I'm not hurting anyone but myself.

00:43:29.25
Bill
You know, I'm I'm off doing my thing. Mike always is always the one that says that he goes, I could be I could be 100 miles away in a hotel all by myself and I'm still hurting people, you know.

00:43:38.65
Megan Swan
Mm-hmm.

00:43:38.84
Bill
Uh, which is, which is this, this, again, this tragic ripple effect that we have on people.

00:43:38.83
Megan Swan
Mm-hmm.

00:43:43.31
Bill
But, um, but yeah, the, I like the fact that you said that, you know, the, these tools and these things that that we've gotten in the, in the recovery community, I can go to almost anyone in the recovery community.

00:43:54.51
Bill
I don't care what the background is, how long they've been sober. I can have a genuine conversation with that person, even if I've never met them before in most cases.

00:44:03.85
Megan Swan
Yeah, I think it just, I was going to say levels the playing field, but that's not really what I want to say. It's more like there's just this ah sensation of openness to authentic conversation that yeah, kind of just, you kind of roll past all the BS and

00:44:09.93
Bill
yeah

00:44:17.87
Bill
Right.

00:44:23.83
Megan Swan
um yeah, it just feels like you can, i think we get good at sensing like where it's a safe space to talk about these things.

00:44:31.99
Bill
Right. But he said that past the BS. I mean, we spent half our lives, you know, building only me all these conversations and these stories filled with BS that yeah most people that you talk to and that that around the recovery world, especially been around for a few years.

00:44:49.24
Bill
I don't think that that we as ah as a group have have time for the BS anymore, I think is important. is what it comes down to but um so why don't why don't we do this let's uh let's take a just a real quick break and then we'll come back and i want to obviously i want to hear about um i i'd love to hear about your podcast i know a little bit about it i'd love to hear about your book or books that you want want to talk about your coaching all these different things that that whole laundry list of things that that you gave to begin with i i'd love to start chipping away at that and hear a little bit more about your life okay so

00:45:16.29
Megan Swan
Yeah.

00:45:21.95
Bill
All right, we will be back in just a couple of seconds here after these words from our sponsors.

00:45:38.05
Bill
All right, everyone, welcome back. All right. So um what do you want to start out with first? and when i you know out of Out of selfishness, I want to hear a little bit about your podcast. Again, I know i know a little bit about it, but I just want to hear what you're... I'm i'm always interested to hear how how people got into... I mean, everyone has a podcast, it seems, but how did you get into the whole podcast thing?

00:46:02.77
Megan Swan
Yeah, I think it just was kind of something on my my bucket list. It seemed like a fun idea in the beginning. i mean, it still is, but that it it didn't have a lot of clear intention, if you will. um i basically interviewed people that I thought were really interesting and it was kind of...

00:46:20.55
Megan Swan
um Yeah. So at the beginning, it was called Energetically You. And it kind of, it it did gravitate around people that were doing things to sort of optimize their energy in all shapes and forms, you know, like whether that's on a physical level, and you know, mindset or mental level um or spiritual aspects. And yeah, I honestly...

00:46:43.42
Megan Swan
I kind of used it as a networking tool. So I would invite people on that never in a million years would I think these individuals would necessarily even respond to an email that I send them.

00:46:46.39
Bill
Right.

00:46:53.72
Megan Swan
And, you know, lots lots of people said, didn't respond or said no. um But a few really amazing people were like, sure, I'll do your podcast. And I was like, what? Oh, my God. And so it just, it was this, uh,

00:47:07.72
Megan Swan
tool for me to network tool for me to get comfortable, um speaking and asking, you know, powerful, deep questions, which is an important part of coaching.

00:47:20.05
Megan Swan
Um, and, and also just, it was motivating to me to constantly be interacting with, with these people that I thought were doing, you know, equally cool things. And, um,

00:47:30.38
Bill
Right.

00:47:31.95
Megan Swan
Yeah. So over time I shifted the title to be wellness is a way of life, which was a program that I created a while back. And um more recently I added the tagline for women building the future because I currently have female founders building some sort of tech, whether it's health tech, fem tech, clean tech type stuff.

00:47:54.56
Megan Swan
um And And yeah, so basically i I kind of am doing the same thing in that I keep just like where my interest flows. I try and attract guests that I perceive as as like doing even cooler shit than I'm doing.

00:48:13.58
Bill
Yeah. And you know what? That's the best part. It's the, and Mike and I started off and, you know, people out there listening, they've listened to us for a while, know this, but we started really as a whim just to have a meeting together every night. Cause that's what we did when we both lived in Cleveland and um just got together and figure, Hey, if people listen to, you know, great, if they don't fuck them, you know, it kind of what our,

00:48:34.99
Bill
What our mindset set was. And we're still small. You know, we're a small, have a small audience and a small group of people, Instagram and and the podcast and and all that stuff. But um every once in a while that we get people to reach out to us, um like I you know um mentioned to you before, I mean, Tom Farley, you know, um i mean, Chris Farley's brother reached out to us or his people did.

00:48:51.22
Megan Swan
Mm-hmm.

00:48:55.72
Bill
because he's Tom Sober and he's working for this. I can't remember the name of the it's an alcohol free society or website, um you know, that now and out of Madison and, um you know, basically came on. And but I mean, we we got to talk to to Tom Farley. And yeah we talked about Chris.

00:49:12.22
Bill
You know, we talked about um his background and stuff like that. But what we and we didn't really go into it with like I mentioned before we started, we don't really have an agenda. But it was kind of our mindset.

00:49:23.32
Bill
We didn't want to just say, hey, you know let's talk about let's talk about your brother. How cool is your brother? And this and that. Both of us are huge fucking fans of Chris Farley and his movies and and all that sort of stuff.

00:49:35.16
Megan Swan
Mm-hmm.

00:49:35.98
Bill
But want to tell you what, you know ah what Tom said was that Once he, cause he used to go out and he would speak to begin with and still does, but he would go out with the mindset. He would go out telling Chris's story, you know?

00:49:48.73
Bill
So it was him obviously telling Chris's story, but then he shifted at some point. I forget how he did it consciously or unconsciously, but he made a shift and he started telling his own story. So Tom started telling Tom's story um But obviously weaving in stories with Chris and he said the response that the response that he got out of it was so much better because it was authentic, you know, and so that was kind of without even knowing that that was kind of our goal. We wanted to talk to Tom, Tom Farley, knowing that we'd end up talking to Chris, but he's

00:50:19.25
Bill
um But the same thing that you said, you know, people out there doing some cool shit. And ah we thought we end up talking to a lot of for whatever reason we get. We must get on these lists where, you know, people that are trying to promote books. We've had a lot of authors, a lot of people, um you know, that are writing books about different things.

00:50:35.77
Bill
um So we get a lot of people to reach out to us. We've said no a lot. probably a lot more than um and some people might think. But um we don't want to have somebody on that's either not going to interest us, serve what we want, or more importantly, serve what we think our listeners might want.

00:50:55.14
Bill
And the other thing, too, is that we're not goingnna we're not going to try to promote something that we wouldn't that we wouldn't use or we wouldn't do. Um, neither one of us are are into alcohol-free beverages, nothing wrong with them. I don't care if people want to want to drink alcohol-free this, that, and the other thing, we just don't do it. So we've been approached by people that want to you know promote that. We won't do it.

00:51:14.02
Bill
Um, other things, certain meditation practices, which again, I think are great tools, but we don't do it. It's hard to have an authentic conversation with somebody. Um, if we, if that's not a practice that we, that we get into,

00:51:25.40
Bill
Um, but you, um, are dealing with your, I guess, as you, as you were leading into that with a podcast. So the podcast went along with the, the wellness you were doing, the coaching, so that that kind of tie into that, were you doing that before? And then the podcast, or how did these come together?

00:51:44.60
Megan Swan
Um, I mean, I knew that it was good, good tool for promotion essentially. Um, and so i guess I'd been coaching a couple years, podcast I started 2021 and,

00:51:56.04
Megan Swan
twenty twenty one and um Yeah. So I'm in, like I do the first couple of years, I did not take a break and, and then I started doing seasons that would be, there would be ah a few months a year that there weren't episodes, which, you know, say what you will, but I just knew I needed to break a break to keep going.

00:52:18.51
Bill
Right.

00:52:19.25
Megan Swan
um So I'm ah in season seven and yeah, I just over time have I still get, you know, chills sometimes when someone I really admire and respect, I invite on and they're like, sure, let's do it.

00:52:35.00
Megan Swan
And then I'm like, okay, well, now I have to research everything about this person and like make a really great interview.

00:52:37.94
Bill
Right.

00:52:41.87
Megan Swan
um So i just, I feel like it's just opened my mind to what's possible also and interacting with people that you perceive as unapproachable or untouchable in some way, you know, we, I think, create all these sort of um made up hierarchies in our, in our mind.

00:52:47.11
Bill
right

00:52:55.06
Bill
Right.

00:53:01.26
Megan Swan
Yeah.

00:53:02.04
Bill
right

00:53:02.91
Megan Swan
And, yeah, I think it's helped me personally as as an individual in in my perception of what's possible for me and my business as well. Just being like, yeah, these people are amazing and like also not that much different than me, you know.

00:53:18.05
Bill
Well, I mean, do you think that that's kind of ah um like a feeling less than type of, I don't want to say syndrome, but is that kind of what you mean? Like feeling less than, like not sure if these people would, you'd be on the same level as them?

00:53:31.11
Megan Swan
Yeah, but I mean, I think, I mean, I work with women that are building like multi-million dollar empires and it doesn't matter how successful you get. We all have these sort of things in our head where we position ourselves based on some perception we have real or imagined of what this person's

00:53:49.64
Bill
Right.

00:53:52.01
Megan Swan
and that we're talking to is either more successful or at the same level of success, but in a different industry or, um, and, and I, or like famous or, you know, has a giant Instagram following, like all these things that, you know, really don't mean anything.

00:54:11.88
Megan Swan
But they create, I think, all these imagined barriers. and And then, yeah, you start feeling like you get in your not enoughness spiral.

00:54:21.47
Bill
right

00:54:21.52
Megan Swan
um And it's just unproductive. So like a lot of the work I do with female founders and entrepreneurs is really helping them work through. like Mindset work is like any sort of workout. you know It's not a one and done scenario. You need to...

00:54:36.19
Megan Swan
to practice focusing on why you're a badass opposed to focusing on like all the things you fucked up on last year.

00:54:43.80
Bill
Right. Yeah. And you know, it's a, and I can still get into that, into that mode of, you know, that, that feeling less than type of thing. and And Mike, ah Mike and I talk about that on a, I don't want to say a semi-regular basis, but.

00:54:59.02
Bill
you know the Every once in a while, and you know ah social media, that's why I laughed when you said the number of followers and things like that. Social media can be the i mean such a monstrous, first of all, a monstrous waste of time, mindfuck for people, really.

00:55:13.17
Megan Swan
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:55:16.80
Bill
And it's it's such a yeah if you don't have the ability to realize that you're you're looking at it's somebody's just somebody's success reel is what you're looking at.

00:55:29.77
Bill
You're not looking at their life. You're not following around 24 hours a day. Some people act like you are, but you're not. And that's why what a a lot of times I see people in there, these people that are constantly throughout the day, you know, all either going live or putting all these reels up and that sort of thing.

00:55:37.01
Megan Swan
Mm-hmm.

00:55:45.55
Bill
I think it's great, you know, depending on what you're doing and how you're doing it. But every once in a while, you can see, you know, the people that are just trying to, um I don't know, if just the the look at me type of thing, you know, um look at me and look what I'm doing. And ah and part of me is kind of like, well, what the fuck are you doing?

00:56:02.79
Bill
You know, i mean,

00:56:03.94
Megan Swan
Yeah, i mean, it's very curated. That's, that's for sure. um

00:56:08.06
Bill
yeah.

00:56:08.05
Megan Swan
And I think it's very unhelpful. But I mean, all all this not enoughness, like it, of course, like social media has us, it's like a mirror on steroids of making you feel not good enough.

00:56:18.96
Megan Swan
But I mean, but even before social media, we had this sort of, you know, imposter syndrome in some shape or form.

00:56:19.15
Bill
but right

00:56:24.72
Megan Swan
And um I think, it's important to acknowledge it's just part of the natural human psyche, right? It's like, it's, it's design, it's protecting your ego, right?

00:56:37.63
Megan Swan
Like you're always going to want to do just so kind of stay in your little safe zone where, you know, you're not going to feel too challenged or there's like you're your mind wants to protect you from feeling like an idiot.

00:56:47.38
Bill
Right.

00:56:51.09
Megan Swan
And, you know, really you kind of have to feel like an idiot sometimes to advance in these things and get better.

00:56:51.64
Bill
right

00:56:56.90
Megan Swan
And, know, And, you know, introduce yourself to people you feel awkward introducing yourself and like, they're not all going to be nice, but most of them are.

00:57:06.08
Bill
Right. Yeah. And, you know, it's it's funny that because the same thing, like, ah you know back to the social media thing, you know, there was there's been times, you know, I mean, I've been I've been divorced twice, kind of lost everything twice with that as well. I was still drinking, too. So that didn't help.

00:57:20.70
Bill
You know, you you get sober and, you you hit this bottom there. So you kind of lose everything there. So I've had my I've had financial struggles that I had job losses ah in sobriety, you know, And, and I look at every once in a while, you know, you look at Facebook and you see like this, this, this guy or this girl that you went to high school with. And you're like, you know, you see, you see the big house and you see the cars and you see the, you know, the kids and the, they, they have this job and whatever. And it's, it's,

00:57:45.58
Bill
this in the back of my mind, I'm like, God damn. But then I'm like, I don't want any of that. You know, I've got two beautiful kids that are both adults. Um, and I, and I love them. And, I, I stopped having kids at the time that I, that was perfect for me. I was 32 when my son was born, my ex and I made a decision and no more kids after that. I'm fine with that.

00:58:06.74
Bill
Um, I've gotten a now grandson that's almost four. I've got another grandson on the way. I can live vicariously through, through those little shits, you know?

00:58:11.33
Megan Swan
Hmm.

00:58:14.15
Bill
Um, and I love them to death and they love me.

00:58:14.57
Megan Swan
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:58:16.04
Bill
Just a minute ago, I, I got a text message. My, my daughter sent me this. is She's like, if you need a smile, Ali is my, uh, my grandson's name. Um, she sent that is a picture of him. He made something and he apparently said, uh, my grandpa would like this, you know? So basically,

00:58:31.88
Bill
Send this to my grandpa and show him out of the fucking blue.

00:58:33.37
Megan Swan
her

00:58:35.04
Bill
You know, i mean, what, what more can I ask for out of life than something like that? You know? Um, but what I ended up doing, you know, a couple of years ago now, and I went through this whole thing with how I got there. Our mom died and i went down to Indiana and right before that.

00:58:49.14
Bill
But um I wanted to do this whole traveling thing. And I i took a job. um'm ah you know I've got to basically a punch-clopping, clocking nine nine to five job right now. I can make commissions, so I can make some money.

00:59:00.89
Bill
But I'm not in the management position anymore. I don't want to be in one. um I don't want the limelight. I want to start work at a certain time, and I want to be done. And I want to have the freedom to travel and and do some things.

00:59:09.44
Megan Swan
Mm-hmm.

00:59:11.73
Bill
you know And that's what I'm doing. you know Um, I have some, there's some other things that there's a couple of things that we're working on. My sister and I are working on right now to, that is kind of a next step, which I'm not in the position. I'm not ready yet to kind of like completely open up about what we want to do, but that could be another thing, kind of a passion project type of thing. But, um, I don't know what just, it's to the point where, where am I, I'm, I'm more comfortable and more content in my life where I'm at now than I've ever been. Um, I still have, you know, some, you know, there's still,

00:59:44.68
Bill
There's still struggles. there's There's, you know, I have mind games. I get this and that. All these different things that I play with myself, think things that I still fight with. um But I'm not chasing any, whatever whatever societal success is, whatever you see on social media, I probably don't want any of it.

01:00:02.61
Bill
I want what I have now. You know what i mean? So it's just, ah I don't know, maybe that's, again, you know, add a little bit of, you know, handful of years and in recovery. And, you know, that takes care of that part of it or leads us into the right thing, I would think, right?

01:00:15.60
Megan Swan
Oh, definitely. Like it's just level upon level of self-awareness of what you actually want and what, you know, knowing what's your two true desires and, and interests and what helps you feel content and,

01:00:29.56
Megan Swan
ah yeah, ah satisfied with however you're defining success versus, you know, when we're not in a self-aware place, we're just taking on whatever society tells us or whatever, you know, like the Facebook feed is feeding you that that's somehow the ideal.

01:00:49.78
Bill
Right.

01:00:50.04
Megan Swan
And, and of course, you know, like behind that beautiful big house and the Christmas photo, there's like, you know, it's not all perfect. Yeah.

01:00:59.93
Bill
Yeah, they probably i've I've been in those pictures before. That was my my son's mom. And i I literally as a human being, I love her to death. I get along with both of my ex-wives more. So I've just had more dealings with my son's mom just as he was because he was young, young ish when I got sober and stuff like that. So we had more day to day dealings. But um love her to death as ah is a human being. And she gave me opportunities to.

01:01:25.11
Bill
fix that relationship and it's, and it's good these days. But, um, when, when we were together, I'll never forget the, um, my son, i don't even know what my son was. And then my stepson was, uh, two years older than him.

01:01:37.31
Bill
And we did these, uh, uh, Christmas pictures. And it was just a matter of, uh, we went, I think we went to, at that time, i don't even know, does people even know what's, I think people know what Sears is.

01:01:40.96
Megan Swan
Yeah,

01:01:48.56
Bill
It was either, I think it was Sears.

01:01:49.24
Megan Swan
yeah.

01:01:50.32
Bill
Um, And, you know, i mean, I think they're out of business now. All of them are. But um you could go in there and get halfway decent pictures. Kmart used to be able to get pictures years ago, like ah almost like a Target for anyone who doesn't know what Kmart is.

01:02:02.16
Bill
um But we went in there and and my ex had this idea. she's like, okay, we're all going to wear, you know, like the the certain like dark colored jeans. We're all going to do like white turtlenecks. We're going to have these pictures.

01:02:12.85
Bill
I don't like turtlenecks. I don't like wearing white. um I would have rather sat home and drank. Yeah. And I remember that we just we fought. We were fighting.

01:02:23.71
Bill
I think on the way there we were fighting and whatever the case is, we're bitching back and forth. The kids were not doing well, you know, getting my son of my stepson. And then, you know, everyone just like it sits down. It's this this fucking smile, you know, and you're like, I remember that night and it wasn't fucking happy.

01:02:40.93
Bill
Yeah.

01:02:41.57
Megan Swan
Mm-hmm.

01:02:42.48
Bill
you know And that that is what that is what social media is. because i Not that I don't believe people are happy. i know't I know people in this world that have wonderful relationships that are and are happy with their lives. And if they threw it up on Instagram, it it would be the truth. But um yeah, you're right. it's just it's ah It's whatever people want us to to to see. And i I try so hard. i mean with our ah with the I'm only on Instagram with the Sober Not Mature stuff. I'm on Facebook personally.

01:03:11.77
Bill
but I just don't spend a lot of time on Facebook. I usually every once in a while, if I go, if I'm babysitting or something like that, I'll throw pictures up of my grandson. Not really to, it's mainly for people, the, the close friends and family that I have that really care to see, um, what my grandson is up to type of thing and how he's grown.

01:03:28.79
Bill
That's what those pictures are for. Um, but the, the sober, not mature stuff. I mean, I, I try to keep it the podcast and inappropriate memes, um, I mean, I do my travel stuff.

01:03:38.23
Megan Swan
you

01:03:39.44
Bill
I post all my travel pictures and things like that. um because i But I do that. a lot of A lot of it I do for me. um Anyone who asks, I've had people that are under this assumption that I that i don't work full time.

01:03:53.06
Bill
And I'm like, that can't be even farther from the fucking truth. I work through the week regardless where I'm at. I work Monday through Friday, the same, same as anyone would anywhere else. And on the weekends, I, that's where I spend my time. I go out to hiking trails and and that sort of thing. That's what I do.

01:04:08.68
Bill
I'm just living my normal life in a different place at certain times. You know, um if I had the ability to travel, it didn't have to work.

01:04:12.65
Megan Swan
Mm-hmm.

01:04:15.79
Bill
I would do it. But, but I don't. So with the, um, okay. So the podcast kind of leads into the coaching if I'm correct. And then where does the, where does the book or books come in kind of mingled in with all of that too?

01:04:31.94
Megan Swan
Uh, yeah, I'm trying to think that I did. I think I did the, my first book I did before I did the podcast. So that was also kind of like a bucket and the first book I wrote in Spanish and it was more of like a detox guide for moms.

01:04:42.31
Bill
Really?

01:04:44.01
Megan Swan
And then I translated it into English. They're both still available on, um, it's called 10 day detox. It's on Amazon. Um, but yeah. And then January this year, I published my, uh, it's part memoir, part, um,

01:05:00.63
Megan Swan
Yeah, guide for women that want to get sober, not sober, healthy, really, for good. Definitely touch on the alcohol thread, if you will, but it's not really the front and center ah part of the story.

01:05:07.54
Bill
Right.

01:05:14.40
Megan Swan
It's essentially, you know, my Latin style eat, pray, love memoir of of the last 15 years. called marinating in chaos, make, um, authentic, bold decisions and live intuitively. And, uh, it's full of journal prompts, which I think are like a great tool when you're trying to figure out how you actually feel about things in your life.

01:05:36.31
Megan Swan
And, um, Yeah, it was really, i wrote it over many years, which I think was good at the end of the day. And that i it gave me time to really reflect and and decide what I wanted to say about certain, certain chapters, literally and figuratively.

01:05:54.75
Bill
Right.

01:05:55.16
Megan Swan
Um, and you know, probably I'll write another one, but, uh, it was, it was a great exercise and yeah, like I said, it was just something I really wanted to do for myself. And I, and I do think it's a great way for people that process is to, to write things down and to get that whole story and help someone.

01:06:13.88
Megan Swan
I had a really great editor who helped me sort of distill down, like, what are the, the true messages that I want to share?

01:06:20.98
Bill
right

01:06:21.79
Megan Swan
um and, and really it's just to, to, inspire, i mean, I tend to work with women. I also work with some incredible men. um but I tend to attract women for various reasons.

01:06:36.68
Megan Swan
that there's just next level ways that we can get healthier. And, you know, it's not way beyond diet and exercise, for example.

01:06:49.20
Megan Swan
um And that's kind of rolled into my my current project, which is really empowering individuals with their own personal medical data to make better life decisions and, you know, shift some of their lifestyle habits.

01:07:04.96
Megan Swan
so that they can live better now, but then also really control their health span trajectory. You know, it's not just, um yeah, I mean, and I personally kind of geek out on it. Like I plan to live to 108, 120, think.

01:07:22.44
Megan Swan
i'm just i feel like i'm just getting started i'm forty six so I think things are really going to change in this and the future. And, you know, if even if I live to 80, I really want to be like, you know, some of my friends and family members that were, you know, like swimming across lakes and hiking up mountains at that age.

01:07:41.56
Bill
Right.

01:07:41.75
Megan Swan
and And I think like a lot of our decisions sort of in this sort of midlife, moment um can can really shift your trajectory. And it's not about like living a strict lifestyle. It's more about how important it is to have information. So I'm super excited. We just got back from hosting our first women's retreat. And in two weeks, I take our first couples retreat down Chiapas, Mexico.

01:08:07.92
Megan Swan
And so it's this unique experience where ah It is a immersive travel and wellness retreat, but for five hours one morning we spend in private hospital and get like every sort of medical diagnostic testing you could want, which, you know, both in Canada and the US would probably take you months, if not years.

01:08:30.27
Megan Swan
to get and accumulate. And we also have a team of 12 specialists that are looking all at the same data at the same time. So you're really getting like a holistic perspective of what, you know, could use some tweaking or what you should maybe be concerned about.

01:08:45.50
Megan Swan
um Here are the things that you can do lifestyle wise. That's where I come in into the picture. And um yeah, I mean, the response that we had from our guests was just, I mean, we were pretty confident that it was going to be a life changing experience, but they're just reflecting back so many other levels of of value and, um,

01:09:00.52
Bill
yeah

01:09:07.60
Megan Swan
Yeah, just appreciation for what we were doing that we hadn't considered. And, and so yeah it was very affirming that we're we're really on to something with this kind of unique intersection of the the medical with the holistic with the travel.

01:09:23.33
Bill
and And what's the name of that again? Because I know you said you have the two the two different companies, right?

01:09:27.48
Megan Swan
The company's called, yeah, Alta Vita. So it's like high life, Alta Vita. And um we host, um I mean, we do a lot of things, but the the formula, if you will, of this retreat is a five-day experience. And, you know, it's like all-inclusive, everything. That was another piece, like just how for people that have busy lives to come and just feel feel held and taken care of, like, you know, everything's...

01:09:55.82
Megan Swan
All of your transport, there's a chauffeur, like you don't have to plan anything. All of the meals were staying at five star boutique hotels with Michelin star chefs and and and even the medical experience. It's just so much more compassionate, you know, medicine 2.0, both in Canada and the US.

01:10:13.92
Megan Swan
really to no fault of their own. They're just maxed and overwhelmed at this point. um But they're also not trained to hold space in general, but certainly like encourage you to be proactive and preventative in your health journey.

01:10:24.94
Bill
Right.

01:10:32.77
Megan Swan
there When they tell you and a doctor tells you something's normal, it means like you're not sick. It doesn't mean you're optimal.

01:10:43.14
Bill
You know what? that's That's a good point. It's just that, yeah, you're you're not you're not sick. you're that you're not out that's That's great. I never thought about that before, but I'm sure that's not only more than true, that's probably true in a scary way, right?

01:10:54.35
Megan Swan
Yeah, well, and I mean, there's there's lots ah of progress. like So medicine 2.0 is kind of like what one refers to, like the classic, you know what we've been experiencing for 50 years, approximately. And then um the 3.0 is increasingly being integrated in in some, you know you can find functional medicine doctors or more holistic doctors that, you know, are kind of creating a little bit more space for and in-depth conversation, you know asking you how you're sleeping.

01:11:24.28
Megan Swan
You know, if your cardiologist is not asking you what you're eating, like there's a problem. each

01:11:28.74
Bill
Right.

01:11:29.80
Megan Swan
Um, and I, you know, we have clients across North America that are, are just kind of reflecting a lot back to us in the system that we didn't even appreciate. Like, even if you're, I mean, there's just so many threads of problems and, um,

01:11:46.81
Megan Swan
Yeah. So long story short, we're offering a different experience around healthcare. care So we, you know, there's like five of us women, nobody wants to get their blood drawn. Nobody wants to get a mammogram. Nobody like really wants to go for a CT scan, bone density scan, but we go, we all hang out together at the hospital. It's like little hen party, you know?

01:12:08.39
Megan Swan
And everyone's automatically more relaxed. And it's just like a fun time opposed to it being this thing you dread. And when you dread it, you just put it off. And that's when, you know, probably more problems are a lot more likely to arise when you're not doing this preventative care.

01:12:17.28
Bill
Right. Right.

01:12:23.95
Bill
right

01:12:26.28
Bill
So um real quick, just so I don't I don't forget, because I want to have a link in there. Do you have like where's the best place if I if we put in the description a best place for people to go where they could find links to everything? Or do you want me to put links to different things there? Because I want people to be able to find these things, obviously, as they're is they're listening. So where's one place that they might be able to go?

01:12:48.49
Megan Swan
Yeah. um Well, anything around the retreats, just go to altavitahealth.ca.

01:12:50.49
Bill
Thank

01:12:54.66
Megan Swan
We're also on Instagram um and LinkedIn and anything that else, like sort of in my wheelhouse, my book, working with me. If you love journal prompts, there's a freebie on my website. That's meganswanwellness.com. So I can share those ah links with you. And yeah, and and ah there's a link from Megan Swan Wellness to Altavita as well.

01:13:18.75
Megan Swan
or just DM me on Instagram. It's really just the easiest. spen I I swear way too much time on social media.

01:13:22.24
Bill
Okay.

01:13:25.07
Megan Swan
I still have sort of like a love hate relationship with it. I have met so many incredible people like you, Bill, through these weird social media.

01:13:29.42
Bill
Yeah, you know what?

01:13:34.44
Megan Swan
Like I discovered the social curator and my whole sober community. um And also I have a timer on Instagram that tells me to like turn it off after 30 minutes every day. So yeah.

01:13:45.01
Bill
Right. It's, I mean, it's hard, but I, so I will put, I'm going to put at least links to, cause I know I've got, I had your Instagram in the promotions. That would be in the, that'll be in the description one way or the other.

01:13:56.21
Bill
I'll have the Alta Vita on there and also the Megan Swan Wellness. Cause you said there's a, a link to the Alta Vita from your website, correct?

01:14:04.04
Megan Swan
Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's hyperlinked in my in my bio. I kind of have to look for it, but yeah, I should probably improve that.

01:14:08.69
Bill
Okay. I mean, I'll, I'll take a look. So yeah, anyone who's listening right now, you should be able to to drop it in there. If not just, you know, obviously do a, if you do a search, I mean, Google finds you pretty quick. Cause I was looking for that, like your picture and stuff like that, that I, that I use. So was, you're, you're pretty, you're you're not hard to find, I guess is my point.

01:14:26.64
Bill
Um, but yeah, you know, the, the thing of it is with social media and it's kind of funny when, um, same deal, when I first got on, uh, Instagram, you know, I did it under just a random name to begin with. And then Mike and I came up with the, uh, the title for the podcast. So that's what we changed to start up a new Instagram page for that. I didn't want to go on there on a personal level, so I've never done anything personally on Instagram.

01:14:48.05
Bill
Um, But, you know, there's a there's there's a level of commitment and I've gotten down to a point where there's only for the most part, only certain times that I go on Instagram throughout the day and I do it through my my break times at work.

01:15:04.82
Bill
And I'll go on there real quick and um i post the same type of things. Like I'll post a reading, our podcast clip from whoever we have for the week. And then sometimes one other thing, like for my travel side of things, I'll do that in the morning.

01:15:18.89
Bill
And then... Like at 10 o'clock, and you probably saw as I was promoting you throughout the week, basically at 10 a.m. m Central time every day as I i post our upcoming guests, sometimes something funny.

01:15:30.90
Bill
And then I do something a lot of times at 3 o'clock, maybe at 5 o'clock. But I try to limit myself at when I go on there because the same thing for for a while when I first got on there.

01:15:41.90
Bill
I was spending, it's, it's nearly, don't want say impossible, but it's, it's really, really difficult not to get sucked into it. Um, if you don't have some sort of structure, it's, it's terrible, you know,

01:15:53.52
Megan Swan
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Well, yeah. And I mean, we're, we're adults, right? Imagine like my, my, our children, I mean, your children, your children are different age, minor entering into, i mean, my 12 year old has a phone, but he only does not have Instagram yet.

01:16:00.88
Bill
right.

01:16:07.94
Megan Swan
Um, But I mean, it's just like, let's not go down that road hole. But ah it's it's, you need, like anything, you need to have a conscious relationship with it.

01:16:18.46
Megan Swan
So if you're scrolling and afterward, you feel like shit, well, that probably wasn't a productive thing to do, right?

01:16:25.18
Bill
Right.

01:16:26.09
Megan Swan
um Or if you have a very curated feed and you only look at, you know, art and things that give you joy and it's for 15, 20 minutes a day well, great.

01:16:36.10
Bill
right

01:16:36.98
Megan Swan
But if you're also like only looking at, like you were saying, like comparing yourself to all of your high school friends and their level of success, maybe not. So, I mean, we didn't used to like, I think I follow something like 3000 something. Like humans are not designed to know more than a hundred people.

01:16:54.03
Megan Swan
Well, right.

01:16:54.88
Bill
ah right Right. Yeah, there was a, and I think what, um, I think Tony was talking about that. We had, um, Tony Hart on a little bit ago, a couple of months, a month ago, I think something like that, but he's all into the whole stoic stuff and stoicism and stuff like that. He was talking about these, these older tribes and stuff like that, where it was, it was like a hundred people was, was this, uh, the size of this tribe and it everyone knew everyone and blah, blah, blah, and this and that.

01:17:19.58
Bill
Um, But yeah, really when it comes down to it, like my personal Facebook page, I don't think I have more than, I may have 250 friends on there. I'm not that active. I never have been.

01:17:30.70
Bill
I got on Facebook um about nine months into... I think nine or 10 months after I got sober. And the only reason I got on there to begin with was because I thought I was going back to clear back to Wisconsin right away.

01:17:44.23
Bill
I wanted to keep in touch with all my Cleveland sober friends, which is how I still keep in touch with them here and there. And then family, some high school people, but I spend zero time with anyone that I went to high school with. i haven't seen physically in person, anyone from high school in years.

01:18:02.47
Bill
And there's like maybe two or three people that I would even care to see. And then I chit chat with every once in a while and messages or texts or whatever. But um Instagram, like you say, I mean, there's all these different people that i that I've met. Same thing, Sober Curator, all all the all you guys through the Sober Curator, all these other people I've developed these, what I consider to be, if nothing else, online friendships. I've met some of these folks and in real life, you know, over the timeframe.

01:18:30.59
Bill
The people that we've met having people on as guests, you know, through this stuff. It's just, it's, it's cool, um but it has to be controlled. yeah So with the sober curator part of it, and I didn't even know if you know our story, how we got involved, but um so you ran across the sober curator. How did you end up actually getting, um getting kind of hooked up with it and becoming part of the sober curator?

01:18:55.17
Megan Swan
Well, was actually a curator that's no longer with the group um introduced me to Elise. And i was like, well, that sounds fun.

01:19:01.60
Bill
Okay. Okay.

01:19:04.48
Megan Swan
And your energy is amazing. And sure. and I just got sucked in. And, you know, now I think it's been three years. And it's it's like a really core community for me.

01:19:19.59
Megan Swan
um you know We have our monthly meeting tomorrow. I always look forward to, because again, everyone's check-in is just so real.

01:19:28.35
Bill
Right.

01:19:28.57
Megan Swan
And it's you, you, you just blow past the surface level interaction and, um, people immediately tell you what's going on whether it's good or bad or you know, tragic.

01:19:40.43
Megan Swan
And, um, I think there's, there's just so much value in those sorts of spaces. And then, you know, it's this behemoth of a blog at this point. And it's just, it feels like an honor to be involved. And, um,

01:19:54.26
Megan Swan
And yeah, I just feel like my ideals are always welcome. And, you know, it just feels like this very um encouraging, uplifting community. And and I love that that the focus is on like living life and, you know living it loud um and not like all the dreary things that one could do potentially associate with the world of recovery.

01:20:17.23
Bill
Right. Yeah. And, uh, and like you said before, when you were talking about, you know, ah having a safe space and it's, uh, definitely is. And in Elise, I mean, God, she's, she's fucking one of a kind.

01:20:29.06
Bill
Um,

01:20:29.15
Megan Swan
Oh my God, love her.

01:20:30.81
Bill
Well, if you know, the funny part is that I don't know if you ever if we ever talked about this story we were telling. We had had a guest on last week and we were telling her the same story. But the the funny part is it just it I pretty much I don't want to say shamed Elise into into recognizing us and knowing us, but I kind of did.

01:20:48.65
Bill
um So we were we were like a year and a half into the podcast and was coming up on Father's Day.

01:20:49.75
Megan Swan
Do tell.

01:20:55.90
Bill
And she's done it a couple years in a row now, maybe even a few years in a row now. She had this curated list of male-led podcasts.

01:21:03.87
Megan Swan
a

01:21:05.13
Bill
And it was like, ah you know, this, I see it pop up on Instagram and this guy from, God, no, I can't remember. I think it's the Sober Guy podcast or whatever. um Cool guy. I've never met him before, but, you know, I follow him on Instagram and i had followed him at that point.

01:21:18.73
Bill
And he was one of the ones listed on there. So this list was obviously from this sober curator that I never knew. i didn't even know, at least, I didn't know if there was a man or a woman behind this to begin with. So i had no idea.

01:21:31.80
Bill
I didn't know who it was, you know?

01:21:31.94
Megan Swan
Okay.

01:21:33.80
Bill
So I see this article. it's like, oh, you know, coming into Father's Day, you know, here's a curated list of, um you know, male-led podcasts.

01:21:38.89
Megan Swan
This is.

01:21:40.96
Bill
I'm like, well, I look and I'm going through. I'm like, well, what the fuck, man? We're not on there. And um and i'm look I'm looking at it. I'm like, all these other podcasts I've heard of, I'm i'm like, it's fine. But I'm like, not only are we male-led, we got, there's fucking two of us, you know?

01:21:56.00
Bill
We're out here, we're out here working our asses off. I'm like, so what what I did was, um, I took a screenshot of the the the post and took a screenshot. I think I even went on the Sober Curator.

01:22:08.00
Bill
And basically at that time, I mean, it's like, again, like two years ago now, whatever it was, maybe a year and a half ago. um And I said, ah I reposted it. And I'm like, hey, anyone out there that thinks we belong on this list? I said, maybe message these people.

01:22:23.30
Bill
I'm like, whose leg do we have to hump to get on this list?

01:22:26.80
Megan Swan
Yeah.

01:22:26.94
Bill
and And I tagged her. I tagged the Sober Curator. And, um, and she responded to me, she's, and, you know, she's like this and that, she's like, Oh, you know, somehow you missed it on my radar, blah, blah, blah. So we started talking back and forth.

01:22:38.58
Bill
And, um, and that's how we, that's how we get introduced. And, um, she wrote this, um, she, she's got, I want to listen to your podcast. I'm going to do a review on it. Um, this, so she did everything, you know, and then, uh, I asked us to be sober curators. And then, so we get involved in that.

01:22:54.12
Bill
And I think it was, i don't know, we were three, four months in. And, uh, she either messaged me or said something on Instagram, whatever the case is. And she's like, she's like, okay, now who's like, do I have to hump to get on your podcast?

01:23:08.76
Bill
And, you know, we've had her on a couple of times, you know, now, but, uh, but yeah, so that's how, that's how we, yeah, that's how it was.

01:23:12.38
Megan Swan
she's a riot yeah I know I think she liked me because I checked a lot of boxes like it allowed her to say that it was international because I was based I was Canadian and then based in Mexico and um you know there wasn't someone doing was truly drilling down on wellness at that time now there's quite a few of us but

01:23:14.49
Bill
Cause I'm like, well, what the fuck, man, who, who do we have to and basically go to, have to hump to, to get on this goddamn list, you know? So it was just, it was

01:23:37.47
Bill
Right.

01:23:38.52
Megan Swan
Yeah.

01:23:39.01
Bill
Yeah, it's, ah I don't know, it's it's a great group. And, you know, I like to write, i I'll get an article in my head every once in a while that I that i write about. um I was just messaging or actually emailing with Liz prior to this because I'm actually down in Lake of the Ozarks right now. So I'm traveling tomorrow. i don't know if going to If I'm on the meeting, I usually I'll listen in, but I always let her know if I'm if i'm not going to make it.

01:24:02.75
Bill
She's like, oh she's like, oh, by the way, she goes, I'll I'll grab Megan's episode to make sure it gets up on the on the website. So um I already know. And I figured she would. But so I don't know when it's going to go up, but she'll end up putting this up on the website also.

01:24:15.32
Bill
um So you'll get a little bit extra play on that part of it, which.

01:24:16.43
Megan Swan
Awesome. situation

01:24:18.54
Bill
She's always been really good at doing that, that that's usually been our, our contribution. But um I mean, sometimes I just get something in my head, like ah a good friend of a good friend of mine died few months ago and took me about a month or so to really kind of process through what I wanted to say about it. But I just sat down one, one day and it took me about 20 minutes to write an article. I just wrote, you know, about all these people that, you know, had, had died and was the, the idea of no bad examples, which is again, something that Mike talks about,

01:24:47.07
Bill
That even if um somebody dies tragically, we can learn from it, you know, um but we can also learn from those that that do this thing the right way and live well and and die well, I guess is the right way to put it.

01:24:50.89
Megan Swan
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:24:58.28
Bill
um You know, but I when I submitted the article, I'm like, like, this is really fucking dark. I'm like, I don't. like, I don't know if you don't want to put it up. I don't care. i said, it was therapeutic for me to write it. I said, if you don't want to put it up, I said, I'll, I'll figure out something to do with her. Maybe I'll do nothing with it. I said, I just wanted to get, just wanted to get this shit down on paper, you know?

01:25:16.66
Bill
ah But she did.

01:25:16.71
Megan Swan
okay

01:25:17.18
Bill
She's like, no, no, it's fine. You know, Libby looked at it and she's like, oh yeah, it's all good. We'll put it up. I'm like, okay, your choice, man. I don't want to bring down the room with my, with my article of death, but yeah, yeah, I know.

01:25:27.65
Megan Swan
Oh, there's a little bit of everything on there these days. So I think, you know, everything's game.

01:25:31.48
Bill
Well, it's funny because

01:25:32.83
Megan Swan
And sometimes it goes back to like, sometimes it feels good to find something that makes you tap into sadness, you know?

01:25:40.30
Bill
Right. Yeah, exactly. And that's the the the thing that is, is that, but that's all part of like what you were talking about before is that the the way that we change and the way that we grow.

01:25:52.98
Bill
um And this friend of mine, that was the first person um that that I had ever been, because I've had people, I've had friends die, I've had family members die in the last, you know, again, 15 and a half years.

01:26:04.15
Bill
But this is an individual that um I met about 10 years ago. We dated. um I mean, I had an intimate relationship with this with this person. ah we were you know So we had that when we were friends. We had our ups and downs throughout the year and this and that.

01:26:18.35
Bill
And it just, after after she died, and Mike and I were talking about it one of the episodes, I'm like, I didn't realize it right away, but that that's literally the closest person I've ever had die. You know I've never had somebody die that, that I've had that, you know like an intimate relationship with.

01:26:34.08
Bill
So there's this other level of, you know, what the fuck this, you know? And it was, um again, she had, I, I,

01:26:37.15
Megan Swan
a

01:26:42.39
Bill
Still to this day, don't know exactly what happened, but based on everything that was said, either she drank or drugged herself to death or she killed herself. One of the two. There's no other way that this that this story can go based on the information that was given and how they worded everything or how they didn't.

01:26:57.76
Bill
What they did say and what they didn't say, if that makes sense. And it's, you know, like, that's fucking ah terrible, you know? And then, you know, the same thing, kind of going back to, you know, us, us in our lives, I sat back and really it made me sit down and, and I put that in the article.

01:27:13.80
Bill
It made me evaluate my life. I'm like, clearly she wasn't in a good place, you know? So am i am I happy with my relationships? happy with my kids? Am I happy with my job? And I got to my job and like, no, I'm not really happy with it.

01:27:25.78
Bill
So I need to change that. You know, I'm at a point of my, in my life, the way that I feel, I don't deserve happiness, but I also don't, um, I can, I have the ability to work for things that make me happy, if that makes sense, you know?

01:27:28.41
Megan Swan
Mm-hmm.

01:27:38.74
Bill
Um, and if there's an area of my life that I'm not content with, um, I have the ability to change that. And there's no reason I don't, I, we don't have to live like that anymore. You know, we don't have to settle for, for anything that is less than, I guess is the easiest way to put it. So that's where this other thing that I was talking about that, uh, I want to make some goddamn changes.

01:27:59.65
Megan Swan
Yeah, I don't frame it as like one people deserving or not deserving happiness. I think what one needs to understand is it's a choice. Like in any situation, you can decide to find a piece of happiness in there not dwell not.

01:28:09.28
Bill
Right.

01:28:15.50
Megan Swan
to dwell and not

01:28:17.45
Bill
right

01:28:18.06
Megan Swan
um But I actually made a post the other day. it was recently Day of the Dead in Mexico, which is November 2nd. And, um you know, after living 15 years there,

01:28:30.60
Megan Swan
just learning the sort of beauty of that ah tradition. and And one is just sort of being more intimate and close with your dead, specifically on that day and really kind of like leading up, they they create an altar in their homes all of all of October.

01:28:45.54
Megan Swan
And, you know, they put flowers and candles and a photo of their, you know, you kind of hit your collective dead, you know, all the people in your life that are important to you that have passed.

01:28:45.63
Bill
right

01:28:56.08
Megan Swan
And um over time, I've personally developed this sort of spiritual counsel concept. So like, you know, I've lost my dad, I've lost all four grandparents, my dad's brother, some other like mentors in my life.

01:29:12.77
Megan Swan
And to me, like just having when I'm feeling like a little bit lost, this this visualization or a mental image of Like all those people sitting around a table just kind of there to advise.

01:29:26.62
Bill
right

01:29:27.43
Megan Swan
And, you know, I think maybe you can invite this person onto your spiritual council because I'm sure she taught you a lot.

01:29:36.46
Bill
Oh yeah, absolutely. And you know, it's something that, uh, in the, the thing that I, that I try, um, really hard. And the reason that I, I, I know that processing through, um, these things is so important is because I don't want to, well, I can't afford to have a resentment. That's number one.

01:29:53.34
Bill
Um, cause it's just, it's not any good for my, my opinion, you know, it's just resentments are no good for, for anyone. They can be the death of, of, you know, so alcoholics and and all that sort of thing. But,

01:30:04.65
Bill
I also don't want to have ill feelings towards her. You know, I want to remember the the good parts about her and the good parts about these people that um even if they died tragically. So um that's the thing, you know, realizing that, you know, whatever she was going through. um That's the other thing, too, that um who...

01:30:22.43
Bill
Who do I impact it in my life? You know, is there anything left undone? Is there anything left unsaid? Was I in a bad place with with anyone at any point? Am I in a bad place with anyone right now in my life?

01:30:34.36
Bill
You know, gosh, if it something happens to somebody and she and I were on, you know we're on good terms. You know, I mean, we didn't see each other a lot. We didn't talk a lot. um But I didn't have to when that happened, and I didn't have to go back and like, oh, my God, you know I have with all of these regrets.

01:30:48.10
Bill
because I have the the ability. And like you said, I'm like, I'm glad you said that choice thing. I have the choice to do things that bring me happiness or bring me joy or, you know, help to bring other people, hopefully a little bit of happiness and joy, you know, so I have that opportunity to, I guess, live proactively to make sure that, you know, when these, when these tragedies happen, even if they're natural items like that, that,

01:31:11.08
Bill
I don't have to sit back and and have regrets about, well, I wish I would of I wish I could have i I should have done these sort of things. I don't have to have any regrets, which is, you know, which is cool. But yeah, the spiritual council thing, that's ah that's an interesting concept.

01:31:24.78
Bill
i've never I've never done anything like that. But hey, you know what? New things. New things always always bring about every once in a while.

01:31:29.98
Megan Swan
citizens citizen

01:31:31.81
Bill
yeah.

01:31:31.85
Megan Swan
Had to bring a little bit of woo to the table.

01:31:34.25
Bill
nothing Nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with that at all. So um anything anything that you think that, I guess, number one, either that we missed, anything you want to focus on? I'll have, obviously, links to your website and and that sort of thing in there, plus your Instagram handle, obviously, on there when people want or if they need to get in touch with you. But either any last words that you want to get out to people or anything that we missed?

01:31:58.75
Megan Swan
No, I feel pretty complete. um You know, reach out if you're interested in hearing about a spectacular part of Mexico that we lived in for 15 years and are are now hosting groups. and we We are hoping to find an aligned male coach at some point. So there'll be male only retreats as well. But currently there's just women only and couples.

01:32:21.09
Megan Swan
And, um, yeah, and I'm an open book. I mean, as if you decide to pick up my book, you will see I'm very, very transparent. Um, so definitely, if anything touched you in this conversation, are you curious to hear more or want to share your story around something? Uh, I'm always available in the DMS and and Instagram.

01:32:43.71
Bill
All right. Well, um you know, as always, I appreciate it. And throughout this, didn't want to interrupt the conversation, but yeah, Mike texted about ten probably 40 minutes ago. And he's like, he goes, I just parked. That means parked his truck.

01:32:54.51
Bill
He's like, I'm not going to make it. I'm like, yeah, that's cool. No worries. We're doing well. So. um yeah so i'm uh it would have been nice to have him here i think he would have enjoyed this but uh um who knows maybe uh maybe at some point we can have you back on or or whatever the case may be and uh but yeah check out um everyone obviously check out megan on instagram we'll have the links in the description here or you know just hop on google and and look her up and uh yeah reach out to her clearly she has a couple of things going on so

01:33:22.36
Megan Swan
Mm-hmm.

01:33:23.65
Bill
There's got to be something that that would interest somebody along those lines. But seriously, I truly, truly appreciate it. Thank you so much for for coming on and obviously spending the time.

01:33:35.29
Bill
And yeah, Mike normally kind of runs us out of here with ah with a little special thing, which I'm not going to do. So I'm just going to say goodbye to everyone. So Megan, thank you again. And everyone else, goodbye. And hopefully Mike will be here next week. He will be one way or the other.

01:33:49.25
Bill
Bye, everyone.